For what it is worth Oakland has opened a thread for this subject and their OOC is 70% set. They have games at Kansas, at Syracuse, against Michigan St, at Oral Roberts, several MAC contests, and are hosting Texas Southern.
What do we have locked up? We host Indiana St again, go to Ball St and travel to Santa Clara with a probable second game attached (Stanford, or one of many others in that area). What else do we know?
Rumors and speculation are always welcome.
I'm pretty sure we're going on another out West long road trip again this year because of the Santa Clara Game here. Stanford would be an interesting potential match-up because Coach Lottich's connection there.
That Santa Clara game could make for an interesting recruiting opportunity for the coaches out in California. When is the last time Valpo recruited a California player? It's not our natural recruiting grounds based on geography its tougher to tap into that region.
Coach Jackie Manuel may be able to reach out to Roy Williams to schedule a game with North Carolina. Coach Manuel played on that 05' National Championship team (bad memories... Grew up an Illini fan...). I'd think UNC would be much more willing to schedule a Valpo next season as opposed to this season because Alec/Shane/Jubril are graduating. Less risk for them because they know Valpo will be young and in a reloading year. Valpo may wait till another additional year to make this happen because we'll already be heading out West. That would be a lot of travel and travel costs for VU. Coach Manuel also was an assistant for UNC Greensboro for four years.
Maybe we FINALLY get to play Scott Drew's Baylor because Bryce has officially left Valpo so maybe Scott throws us a bone and schedules us to give his old team, alumni and friends in the Athletic Department a gift. I could see it happening sometime in the next few years now that Bryce left. He may even give us a 2 Away and 1 at our place. His Dad's name is on the frickin Court. He also knows Alec is gone so less risk on their part.
Coach Joel Zimba is the director of Basketball Operations, and he played at Wisconsin Madison. He play for Greg Gard when he was an assistant at Wisconsin and is now Head Coach. Madison is in the mid-west and would be a low cost/easy travel game for Valpo. Not to beat a dead horse but should be easier to schedule out of conference road games now that Alec/Shane/Jubril are graduating and in a reloading year.
Coach Chad Warner is the recruiting coordinator may have some connections. He graduated/grad-assistant from University of Georgia. He was a walk-on. He also was assistant coach at William & Mary for a few years.
Coach David Ragland coached a Indiana State (their are already scheduled) and coached at Bowling Green for a year.
Baylor visited the ARC in the early-mid 90s, as part of a deal when Valpo traveled to Waco for something they called the Dr. Pepper Classic which I believe was 1993. So it's not unprecedented for Baylor to visit Valpo, although that's a lifetime ago for many on this board.
Valpo has played North Carolina a few times in the last 10-15 years, and has played Wisconsin maybe twice in 20 years.
I wouldn't want to load up on too many heavyweights next season. I'd rather stay in the MAC-type realm, playing Western Michigan or Toledo or Bowling Green or Akron. Wouldn't mind games again vs. IUPUI or Oral Roberts. That's probably a better matchup for next year's team.
QuoteI wouldn't want to load up on too many heavyweights next season. I'd rather stay in the MAC-type realm, playing Western Michigan or Toledo or Bowling Green or Akron. Wouldn't mind games again vs. IUPUI or Oral Roberts. That's probably a better matchup for next year's team.
Agreed with not to load up on heavyweights next season. I think we can all say Valpo understandably won't be favorites to win the conference next season. I'd say we still should be a pretty good Mid-Major but there are too many unknowns next season and we're losing AP/Shane. Joe and Bakari are hopefully good but you never know and all are PF's will likely be Freshman.
I'd still load up on heavy weights if we could get a 2-3-4 game deal though (one game a yr). I wouldn't mind scheduling the western Michigan, Toledo, Bowling Green, Akron, IUPUI or Oral Roberts of the world. Apparently we use to have a rivalry with Oral Roberts back in the day (before my time).
Quote from: VU2014 on March 07, 2017, 03:44:40 PMAgreed with not to load up on heavyweights next season. I think we can all say Valpo understandably won't be favorites to win the conference next season. I'd say we still should be a pretty good Mid-Major but there are too many unknowns next season and we're losing AP/Shane. Joe and Bakari are hopefully good but you never know and all are PF's will likely be Freshman.
I'd still load up on heavy weights if we could get a 2-3-4 game deal though (one game a yr). I would mind scheduling the western Michigan, Toledo, Bowling Green, Akron, IUPUI or Oral Roberts of the world. Apparently we use to have a rivalry with Oral Roberts back in the day (before my time).
My early take on next year could put us anywhere in the 90 to 175 RPI range and our playing style might change as much as our top personnel. With these uncertainties most of the old Big Ten might actually try to work us in (on their terms).
Seems like the MAC scheduling guidelines have limited our recent opportunities with them but a modest (beatable) VU squad might be right up their alley?
Does Texas Southern have a second game connected with their trip to Oakland?
I would expect Baylor to happen but when is another question. Same for Vandy. When do we want to cash in these chips?
Bradley, Northern Iowa, Illinois St?
Quote from: VU2014 on March 07, 2017, 02:34:24 PM
I'm pretty sure we're going on another out West long road trip again this year because of the Santa Clara Game here. Stanford would be an interesting potential match-up because Coach Lottich's connection there.
That Santa Clara game could make for an interesting recruiting opportunity for the coaches out in California. When is the last time Valpo recruited a California player? It's not our natural recruiting grounds based on geography its tougher to tap into that region.
Coach Jackie Manuel may be able to reach out to Roy Williams to schedule a game with North Carolina. Coach Manuel played on that 05' National Championship team (bad memories... Grew up an Illini fan...). I'd think UNC would be much more willing to schedule a Valpo next season as opposed to this season because Alec/Shane/Jubril are graduating. Less risk for them because they know Valpo will be young and in a reloading year. Valpo may wait till another additional year to make this happen because we'll already be heading out West. That would be a lot of travel and travel costs for VU. Coach Manuel also was an assistant for UNC Greensboro for four years.
Maybe we FINALLY get to play Scott Drew's Baylor because Bryce has officially left Valpo so maybe Scott throws us a bone and schedules us to give his old team, alumni and friends in the Athletic Department a gift. I could see it happening sometime in the next few years now that Bryce left. He may even give us a 2 Away and 1 at our place. His Dad's name is on the frickin Court. He also knows Alec is gone so less risk on their part.
Coach Joel Zimba is the director of Basketball Operations, and he played at Wisconsin Madison. He play for Greg Gard when he was an assistant at Wisconsin and is now Head Coach. Madison is in the mid-west and would be a low cost/easy travel game for Valpo. Not to beat a dead horse but should be easier to schedule out of conference road games now that Alec/Shane/Jubril are graduating and in a reloading year.
Coach Chad Warner is the recruiting coordinator may have some connections. He graduated/grad-assistant from University of Georgia. He was a walk-on. He also was assistant coach at William & Mary for a few years.
Coach David Ragland coached a Indiana State (their are already scheduled) and coached at Bowling Green for a year.
De'Andre Haskins (2008-2009) and Jordan Coleman(2013-2014) were both from California.
QuoteI would expect Baylor to happen but when is another question. Same for Vandy. When do we want to cash in these chips?
Bradley, Northern Iowa, Illinois St?
I don't think Bryce will schedule us for a while. Just something tells me he doesn't want to have to deal with the blow back of his old possibly beating him from Vandy fans. (not sure there will be much blow back but it would be a PR hit to say you lost to your smaller former employer) It may happen but may be a few more years.
QuoteBradley, Northern Iowa, Illinois St?
Something to keep in mind is that we recruit a lot of the same players so its really tough to swallow a loss to these schools. Thats one reason I'm guessing its tough to schedule them.
QuoteDe'Andre Haskins (2008-2009) and Jordan Coleman(2013-2014) were both from California.
Thats true. Forgot about Jordan Coleman but he was a transfer and was not directly recruited from High School.
To be honest I was not aware of De'Andre Haskins (before I was a freshman at VU). Did a quick google search on he was here during 08'-09' season. He only played one season of College Basketball? Anyone know what happened? Still 1 recruit in 10 yrs. Could be a recruiting opportunity.
Looks like there was a Hoosier connection with De'Andre. His High school coach was: "legendary Hoosier Delray Brooks at La Lumiere ... Brooks was Indiana's Mr. Basketball in 1984 and played collegiately at IU under Bobby Knight." I feel like knew everyone in College Basketball, especially in Indiana so maybe he made an Indiana connection in the recruiting.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 07, 2017, 04:56:12 PM
QuoteDe'Andre Haskins (2008-2009) and Jordan Coleman(2013-2014) were both from California.
Thats true. Forgot about Jordan Coleman but he was a transfer and was not directly recruited from High School.
To be honest I was not aware of De'Andre Haskins (before I was a freshman at VU). Did a quick google search on he was here during 08'-09' season. He only played one season of College Basketball? Anyone know what happened? Still 1 recruit in 10 yrs. Could be a recruiting opportunity.
Looks like there was a Hoosier connection with De'Andre. His High school coach was: "legendary Hoosier Delray Brooks at La Lumiere ... Brooks was Indiana's Mr. Basketball in 1984 and played collegiately at IU under Bobby Knight." I feel like knew everyone in College Basketball, especially in Indiana so maybe he made an Indiana connection in the recruiting.
Yeah, he was a Cali kid, but we recruited him at La Lumiere...he left because he was homesick...transferred to one of the WCC or WAC schools, don't remember which school though...
Sounds like we should take a pay game. That way we can afford to go to motor city madness a day early and have a shoot around on the court. :o
Quote from: cornonthe on March 07, 2017, 08:04:55 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 07, 2017, 04:56:12 PM
QuoteDe'Andre Haskins (2008-2009) and Jordan Coleman(2013-2014) were both from California.
Thats true. Forgot about Jordan Coleman but he was a transfer and was not directly recruited from High School.
To be honest I was not aware of De'Andre Haskins (before I was a freshman at VU). Did a quick google search on he was here during 08'-09' season. He only played one season of College Basketball? Anyone know what happened? Still 1 recruit in 10 yrs. Could be a recruiting opportunity.
Looks like there was a Hoosier connection with De'Andre. His High school coach was: "legendary Hoosier Delray Brooks at La Lumiere ... Brooks was Indiana's Mr. Basketball in 1984 and played collegiately at IU under Bobby Knight." I feel like knew everyone in College Basketball, especially in Indiana so maybe he made an Indiana connection in the recruiting.
Yeah, he was a Cali kid, but we recruited him at La Lumiere...he left because he was homesick...transferred to one of the WCC or WAC schools, don't remember which school though...
Nice article about DeAndre from 2014:
http://goswords.com/sports/2014/7/14/MBB_0714145646.aspx
there are many Valpo alums in the LA area, a trip to Pauley or dunk city would be cool
De'Andre ended up transferring to D-II Maui Invitational school host Chaminade.
Also, why are so many of you wanting to buck some money for shooting time at MCM at JLA, when there won't be a roof on JLA next year? (Remember, the Joe is being demolished after the Red Wings final hockey game of 2017.)
If Saint Mary's wasn't such a dominant WCC team currently, I'd love to have Santa Clara and Saint Mary's on a West Coast trip, as those games would help the RPI, if the Gaels are ranked at the time.
Let me rethrow Vermont for our Montreal guys. IF the mastodons are a team, put FW on the list
Quote from: talksalot on March 09, 2017, 05:47:05 PMLet me rethrow Vermont for our Montreal guys. IF the mastodons are a team, put FW on the list
Certainly don't want the Ft. Wayne Newspaper to call us out for dodging them.....
QuoteCertainly don't want the Ft. Wayne Newspaper to call us out for dodging them.....
We'll definitely be playing IPFW sometime in the next 4 years. My guess sometime during Parker's JR or SR season (maybe both) we be play at their place for Parker. Maybe JR season at our place and SR season in Fort Wayne.
I'm also hoping sometime in the next 3 seasons we get to play Arkansas because Parker's brother Brachen plays there. Valpo is close to home for Brachen so it would be a cool match up.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 09, 2017, 08:55:05 PMQuoteCertainly don't want the Ft. Wayne Newspaper to call us out for dodging them.....
We'll definitely be playing IPFW sometime in the next 4 years. My guess sometime during Parker's JR or SR season (maybe both) we be play at their place for Parker. Maybe JR season at our place and SR season in Fort Wayne. I'm also hoping sometime in the next 3 seasons we get to play Arkansas because Parker's brother Brachen plays there. Valpo is close to home for Brachen so it would be a cool match up.
Could be that Arkansas comes to Valpo......You know like Georgia went to Oakland and Santa Clara went to Valpo. The ol Reunion tour for one of your Sr.
Not sure if anyone saw this last night but Paul said that in Bryce's buyout clause when Vandy hired Bryce Away from Valpo that Vandy is forced to play Valpo or Pay Valpo $$$ sometime in the next 5 years possibly.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/841845854772330496
Also a pretty telling stat from the MVC and I'm sure its worse for the Horizon League.
https://twitter.com/GoazenDONS/status/841410084177555456
I thought the Vandy thing was hush hush...apparently not! I'm glad it is out in the open :thumbsup:
Quote from: VU2014 on March 15, 2017, 08:54:48 AMAlso a pretty telling stat from the MVC and I'm sure its worse for the Horizon League.
Mid majors have little bargaining power at the conference level and almost none individually. I was recently criticized for suggesting this same approach. BUT!!!!
WE ARE THE MAJORITY! WE HAVE TO UNITE. Its time to get mad and I mean REALLY MAD and start making things happen.
There is a prevalence of the boot-licking, yes sir boss, mentality on this board. For those of you with that mindset I ask that you just get out of the way.
QuoteMid majors have little bargaining power at the conference level and almost none individually. I was recently criticized for suggesting this same approach. BUT!!!!
WE ARE THE MAJORITY! WE HAVE TO UNITE. Its time to get mad and I mean REALLY MAD and start making things happen.
There is a prevalence of the boot-licking, yes sir boss, mentality on this board. For those of you with that mindset I ask that you just get out of the way.
It sucks but I'm not sure what standing together will do. P5-6 Conference would just end up playing each other for out of conference games and the NCAA would be totally content.
The only time the NCAA ever likes the "little guy" is for the 'David vs Goliath' Tourney games for ratings purposes to help boost the bottom line. The NCAA has proven zero interest in helping or any bit leveling the playing field.
It's actually pretty scary how much many of the mid-majors schools are hemorrhaging $ and running into the RED with their Athletic Department Budgets. Athletics programs are not paying for themselves and there is increased pressure on the Men's Basketball/Football team to earn to subsidize every other sport that is on the scholarship level. When budgets are not met that falls on the backs of Students (and their parents) which are already hemorrhaging with Student debt.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 15, 2017, 12:11:26 PM
QuoteMid majors have little bargaining power at the conference level and almost none individually. I was recently criticized for suggesting this same approach. BUT!!!!
WE ARE THE MAJORITY! WE HAVE TO UNITE. Its time to get mad and I mean REALLY MAD and start making things happen.
There is a prevalence of the boot-licking, yes sir boss, mentality on this board. For those of you with that mindset I ask that you just get out of the way.
It sucks but I'm not sure what standing together will do. P5-6 Conference would just end up playing each other for out of conference games and the NCAA would be totally content.
The only time the NCAA ever likes the "little guy" is for the 'David vs Goliath' Tourney games for ratings purposes to help boost the bottom line. The NCAA has proven zero interest in helping or any bit leveling the playing field.
It's actually pretty scary how much many of the mid-majors schools are hemorrhaging $ and running into the RED with their Athletic Department Budgets. Athletics programs are not paying for themselves and there is increased pressure on the Men's Basketball/Football team to earn to subsidize every other sport that is on the scholarship level. When budgets are not met that falls on the backs of Students (and their parents) which are already hemorrhaging with Student debt.
Source of money is bottom line. It's absurd to say otherwise. Pissing and moaning is all we have, and that's not being a defeatist. I value my time enough to recognize where my limited financial and mental resources are harnessed.
Even if you added up all Mid majors, how many paying fans is that to P6 royalty?
Maybe we should go the Illinois State route and beg and plead on Twitter. At least they got a game against Ole Miss. Then again Ole Miss probably doesn't want to play us....
Look, the P5 has its own issues. They have to appease alums and fill their 15000 seat arenas for 10-12 non conf games. They're not going to schedule losses potential losses for home games. Frankly, at least Syracuse who has historically had one of the biggest home cupcake schedules was punished for it this year. Maybe they'll schedule at UNCG next year. The top mid majors need to schedule home and homes in the same year. We did this with Belmont (may have been with the HL Soccer deal). and we should propose to Illinois State and St Marys and others who have historically good RPIs. Remember RPI is built by records of opponents not necessarily your record. That's how the big boys have good RPIs. Feast on cupcakes and twinkles, be 12-1 going into conference play with your brethren's 12-1 records and then go .500 in league play gets you an at large from power conferences. 10-3 with lots of other 10-3s and then go 14-4 or better in conference with your fellow mid-major conference friends suddenly makes you have a schedule with a few other 24-7 teams but your RPI is better. Remember our RPI wasn't bad this year with wins over NCAA Rhode Island, NIT BYU and Bama. By the way that little Vegas tourney saw VU, BYU and Bama all make NIT. It obviously helped all of them with an NIT worthy going on NCAA worthy resume. Oregon was also a good schedule even with the loss. UK too. You need the right balance though and you need to be competitive in the P5 games.
Forgot link
http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/03/13/illinois-state-ole-miss-basketball-game-twitter (http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/03/13/illinois-state-ole-miss-basketball-game-twitter)
Quote from: VU2014 on March 15, 2017, 08:54:48 AMAlso a pretty telling stat from the MVC and I'm sure its worse for the Horizon League.
https://twitter.com/GoazenDONS/status/841410084177555456
The way I'm reading this stat is that each MVC school is successful in scheduling a home game with a P5/P6 conference foe in 3 out of every 5 years. Seems pretty good compared to the HL teams. Valpo in last five years has only had one P6 team play at the ARC - Florida State last year in the NIT. We really didn't schedule that game.
I'm pretty sure that reads that the league teams collectively have averaged .6 home games per year against P6 teams. AKA, MVC teams as a whole host 3 P6 teams every 5 years.
Quote from: vusupporter on March 15, 2017, 07:08:27 PM
I'm pretty sure that reads that the league teams collectively have averaged .6 home games per year against P6 teams. AKA, MVC teams as a whole host 3 P6 teams every 5 years.
If it said "The MVC has averaged..." I would agree. Where are the lawyers? Help me. I are an engineer.
We need a home and home with Illinois State, if possible.
Quote from: justducky on March 15, 2017, 11:04:27 AMQuote from: VU2014 on March 15, 2017, 08:54:48 AMAlso a pretty telling stat from the MVC and I'm sure its worse for the Horizon League.
Mid majors have little bargaining power at the conference level and almost none individually. I was recently criticized for suggesting this same approach. BUT!!!! WE ARE THE MAJORITY! WE HAVE TO UNITE. Its time to get mad and I mean REALLY MAD and start making things happen. There is a prevalence of the boot-licking, yes sir boss, mentality on this board. For those of you with that mindset I ask that you just get out of the way.
I've already booked a flight to Durham to kick some Mike and Roy butt!
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/846444520501919744
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/846439545533071361
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/846446562842755072
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/846446735115390976
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/846446735115390976
Why do we have to make a return trip to Vanderbilt?
Quote from: VU2624 on March 15, 2017, 08:24:59 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 15, 2017, 11:04:27 AMQuote from: VU2014 on March 15, 2017, 08:54:48 AMAlso a pretty telling stat from the MVC and I'm sure its worse for the Horizon League.
Mid majors have little bargaining power at the conference level and almost none individually. I was recently criticized for suggesting this same approach. BUT!!!! WE ARE THE MAJORITY! WE HAVE TO UNITE. Its time to get mad and I mean REALLY MAD and start making things happen. There is a prevalence of the boot-licking, yes sir boss, mentality on this board. For those of you with that mindset I ask that you just get out of the way.
I've already booked a flight to Durham to kick some Mike and Roy butt!
Not sure Mike and Roy are the issue. Valpo had a 2 for 1 series with both UNC and Duke in the mid-2000s. The Valpo "home" games were at the United Center and we should do that again for the right situation, e.g. Northwestern (if they had any guts), Wisconsin, Illinois, Purdue or Indiana.
Interesting. Both ML and Mario Mercurio Xavier's Basketball Director of Administration, like the tweet. Potential future out of conference opponent? Would be cheap & easy travel for both teams. Its a stretch but maybe it gets ML and Mario talking ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://twitter.com/pwillll/status/846356808038072321
Xavier does sound great.
While we're dreaming a bit, my hunch is that only Wisconsin would even consider the United Center idea. honestly, I think they are the only fan base among Purdue, Illinois, IU, or Indiana that would draw enough ticket sales at the United Center. They are riding high and have a really appealing team.
But given that's true, they might also want to leverage that to play Notre Dame there or a similar name school. That's actually a dream match up for them and UND at a neutral location near thousands of alumni.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 31, 2017, 10:00:24 AM
Xavier does sound great.
While we're dreaming a bit, my hunch is that only Wisconsin would even consider the United Center idea. honestly, I think they are the only fan base among Purdue, Illinois, IU, or Indiana that would draw enough ticket sales at the United Center. They are riding high and have a really appealing team.
But given that's true, they might also want to leverage that to play Notre Dame there or a similar name school. That's actually a dream match up for them and UND at a neutral location near thousands of alumni.
I'm not sure we're going to see Valparaiso play in the United Center again. Maybe I'm wrong, but the college basketball landscape has changed a bit since those Notre Dame, Duke and North Carolina games. Duke and North Carolina used those games as a way to get into Chicago and appease their Midwestern alums. Now Power 6 schools regularly play these showcase games at NBA arenas. Duke, Michigan State, Kentucky and Kansas play in the Champions Classic every year and they've done it in Chicago, Indy and New York recently. The big schools just don't worry about geography anymore when they travel to play these games. Where they once had to rely on a Valparaiso to get them into Chicago, now they've got another top five team they can play and make it a destination game for their fans.
I'm just thinking outloud here, but that's my take on why the United Center stuff isn't a reality anymore in my mind.
Probably a bigger reason is that the UC raised their price for the building rental, so where the break-even point used to be 7 or 8K fans for VU with tickets in the reasonable $20-$35 range, I've heard it's now around 11 or 12K to break even at that price. Or you'd have to make tickets $50 with a smaller crowd.
A game at the UC going from "solid bet to make a profit" to "high risk of taking a financial bath" probably has more to do with it than any issues with finding a team to play. Rumor has it that *Illinois* has lost money on their annual UC game for a while now, but they have $20M+ in annual Big Ten TV revenue to help cover any shortfalls.
Santa Clara followed by a trip to Figueroa St. to face SC!
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847993913600352256
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847994193628758017
I would love to see an alliance form between MidMajors for scheduling.
The NCAA clearly only cares about the P6s and their bottom line.
https://twitter.com/enthusiadams/status/848202856670920704
Quote from: VU2014 on April 01, 2017, 11:34:16 AM
I would love to see an alliance form between MidMajors for scheduling.
The NCAA clearly only cares about the P6s and their bottom line.
https://twitter.com/enthusiadams/status/848202856670920704
Now this was a part of the interview that I really thought was excellent.
Safe to assume that one of those big ten teams is IU or Purdue I'd imagine.
Northwestern must have been the Big Ten team Mark LaBarbera referenced.
Quote from: Valpo13 on April 11, 2017, 07:45:33 AM
Northwestern must have been the Big Ten team Mark LaBarbera referenced.
Pretty smart scheduling by Northwestern.
With them playing their home games at the All-State Arena in Rosemont it may be tough to pack the building. The All-State Arena is awful. Just a very unenjoyable place to see a game, imo. They know Valpo has a relatively "large" Chicago Fanbase for a small school and we're a quality mid-major opponent.
Wish Chris Collins would have the guts to schedule a home-and-away game... but thats the nature of the P5 scheduling realities in the NCAA.
I believe Valpo and Northwestern have had closed door scrimmages in recent years...I'm sure NW was just waiting for Alec to leave to schedule a game.
Quote from: Valpo13 on April 11, 2017, 11:01:35 AM
I believe Valpo and Northwestern have had closed door scrimmages in recent years...I'm sure NW was just waiting for Alec to leave to schedule a game.
Very good point. I'm sure the P6 schools will be more willing to schedule Valpo now that we don't have Alec anymore and they know we'r in a bit of "reload" mode. But Valpo still brings the "name-brand" Mid-Major opponent name.
Would be a big win for Valpo if we could take down Northwestern. Would be a nice little PR boost in the Chicago media. Pretty pumped for this game. I know I'll be there for sure!
Based on this past years rankings, I'd like to see a few of these teams, especially if we can get home-and-home:
Princeton
UCF
UT Arlington
ETSU
Monmouth
Bucknell
BYU
New Mexico State
Belmont
College of Charleston
Richmond
Akron
CS Bakersfield
St Bonaventure
Boise St
San Diego State
FL Gulf Coast
Davidson
Winthrop
Fresno St
Memphis
Louisiana Tech
and for my own selfish purposes, at Colorado or Colorado St.
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/856692587373232128
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/856681538725048320
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 25, 2017, 08:30:59 AMApparently Princeton is at hinkle Nov 12. They might be looking for another game in the area.
I think Valpo is considered the Princeton of the Midwest. That would be a match made in heaven.
I think you meant that Princeton calls itself the "Valpo of the mid=Atlantic." Good to have goals.
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 25, 2017, 10:55:12 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 25, 2017, 08:30:59 AMApparently Princeton is at hinkle Nov 12. They might be looking for another game in the area.
I think Valpo is considered the Princeton of the Midwest. That would be a match made in heaven.
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 25, 2017, 11:20:55 AM
I think you meant that Princeton calls itself the "Valpo of the mid=Atlantic." Good to have goals.
I believe it was John Lithgow while speaking at Valparaiso University, said that "Valparaiso is the Harvard of the Midwest".
Quote from: covufan on April 25, 2017, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 25, 2017, 10:55:12 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 25, 2017, 08:30:59 AMApparently Princeton is at hinkle Nov 12. They might be looking for another game in the area.
I think Valpo is considered the Princeton of the Midwest. That would be a match made in heaven.
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 25, 2017, 11:20:55 AM
I think you meant that Princeton calls itself the "Valpo of the mid=Atlantic." Good to have goals.
I believe it was John Lithgow while speaking at Valparaiso University, said that "Valparaiso is the Harvard of the Midwest".
Or that Harvard considered itself the "Valparaiso of New England".
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/film-actor-helps-vu-celebrate-years/article_3985294f-89d5-5ef9-894f-230437dd97d1.html
Quote from: covufan on April 25, 2017, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 25, 2017, 10:55:12 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 25, 2017, 08:30:59 AMApparently Princeton is at hinkle Nov 12. They might be looking for another game in the area.
I think Valpo is considered the Princeton of the Midwest. That would be a match made in heaven.
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 25, 2017, 11:20:55 AM
I think you meant that Princeton calls itself the "Valpo of the mid=Atlantic." Good to have goals.
I believe it was John Lithgow while speaking at Valparaiso University, said that "Valparaiso is the Harvard of the Midwest".
Quote from: covufan on April 25, 2017, 11:35:13 AM
Quote from: covufan on April 25, 2017, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 25, 2017, 10:55:12 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 25, 2017, 08:30:59 AMApparently Princeton is at hinkle Nov 12. They might be looking for another game in the area.
I think Valpo is considered the Princeton of the Midwest. That would be a match made in heaven.
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 25, 2017, 11:20:55 AM
I think you meant that Princeton calls itself the "Valpo of the mid=Atlantic." Good to have goals.
I believe it was John Lithgow while speaking at Valparaiso University, said that "Valparaiso is the Harvard of the Midwest".
Or that Harvard considered itself the "Valparaiso of New England".
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/film-actor-helps-vu-celebrate-years/article_3985294f-89d5-5ef9-894f-230437dd97d1.html
Bingo! When Lithgow, a Harvard grad, heard the Valpo slogan, Harvard of the Midwest, he said, jokingly, at a huge Valpo event held on a reconstructed Brown Field, that he considered Harvard the Valpo of New England.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 24, 2017, 09:17:04 PMhttps://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/856692587373232128 https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/856681538725048320
Yes, they are playing on the same court as the HL tourney will be on......another advantage??? Hey we will have 15 minute shoot around though, well maybe.
Why not create Pioneer Classic with some games between Valpo, Drake, Butler and Dayton? Coordinate so that they matchups are on the weekend of the football game.
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 25, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
Why not create Pioneer Classic with some games between Valpo, Drake, Butler and Dayton? Coordinate so that they matchups are on the weekend of the football game.
Gee, let's see who might object to this? I just can't put my finger on it. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 25, 2017, 02:18:22 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 24, 2017, 09:17:04 PMhttps://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/856692587373232128 https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/856681538725048320
Yes, they are playing on the same court as the HL tourney will be on......another advantage??? Hey we will have 15 minute shoot around though, well maybe.
You'd think that the HL and LeCrone might see that they are telling their best school to leave immediately.
We should consider getting the United Center for a double header with Loyola, against Harvard, Yale, Princeton (pick two). Or Wisconsin, Iowa, IU or Purdue (again, pick two).
Quote from: covufan on April 25, 2017, 05:30:25 PM
We should consider getting the United Center for a double header with Loyola, against Harvard, Yale, Princeton (pick two). Or Wisconsin, Iowa, IU or Purdue (again, pick two).
Butler, DePaul, Northwestern, -- pick 2???
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 25, 2017, 05:33:08 PM
Quote from: covufan on April 25, 2017, 05:30:25 PM
We should consider getting the United Center for a double header with Loyola, against Harvard, Yale, Princeton (pick two). Or Wisconsin, Iowa, IU or Purdue (again, pick two).
Butler, DePaul, Northwestern, -- pick 2???
I was thinking more of schools that might have a Chicago Alumni presence that might not otherwise get to see their team. DePaul and Northwestern already have opportunities for their alumni. What does Tex say about that school in Indy - oh yeah, Buck Futler.
Quote from: covufan on April 25, 2017, 05:30:25 PM
We should consider getting the United Center for a double header with Loyola, against Harvard, Yale, Princeton (pick two). Or Wisconsin, Iowa, IU or Purdue (again, pick two).
Is it really economically feasible to rent out the United Center for one of those Tournaments?
The United Center has a capacity of 23,500 and is probably really expensive to book. I'm not sure the schools would break even on renting it for a Tourney.
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 25, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
Why not create Pioneer Classic with some games between Valpo, Drake, Butler and Dayton? Coordinate so that they matchups are on the weekend of the football game.
Safe to say that format wouldn't work for butt-headed reasons. What could be workable is a requirement that member schools play some minimum number of OOC games across all sports (including at least one MBB game). I'm sure our friends in Indianapolis (to a lesser extent Dayton and Davidson) would pitch a fit, but where else are they going to play football?
The HL did something similar with Belmont for a few years and it led to some interesting games. Who at the two schools wouldn't want to see Derrik Smits vs Marist before he graduates?
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Quote from: Dave_2010 on April 25, 2017, 09:08:01 PM
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 25, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
Why not create Pioneer Classic with some games between Valpo, Drake, Butler and Dayton? Coordinate so that they matchups are on the weekend of the football game.
Safe to say that format wouldn't work for butt-headed reasons. What could be workable is a requirement that member schools play some minimum number of OOC games across all sports (including at least one MBB game). I'm sure our friends in Indianapolis (to a lesser extent Dayton and Davidson) would pitch a fit, but where else are they going to play football?
The HL did something similar with Belmont for a few years and it led to some interesting games. Who at the two schools wouldn't want to see Derrik Smits vs Marist before he graduates?
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The PFL is a football only conference totally independent of the Horizon ... not sure why they would be concerned (or have any influence over) who their football members play in other sports. Totally different than when Belmont joined the HL for soccer (I believe that was the deal).
All the talk of scheduling basketball games against Butler should probably stop. For obvious reasons, Butler basketball won't be playing Valpo or other Horizon League schools as long as the current administration is in place.
Quote from: zvillehaze on April 25, 2017, 10:24:32 PM
Quote from: Dave_2010 on April 25, 2017, 09:08:01 PM
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 25, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
Why not create Pioneer Classic with some games between Valpo, Drake, Butler and Dayton? Coordinate so that they matchups are on the weekend of the football game.
Safe to say that format wouldn't work for butt-headed reasons. What could be workable is a requirement that member schools play some minimum number of OOC games across all sports (including at least one MBB game). I'm sure our friends in Indianapolis (to a lesser extent Dayton and Davidson) would pitch a fit, but where else are they going to play football?
The HL did something similar with Belmont for a few years and it led to some interesting games. Who at the two schools wouldn't want to see Derrik Smits vs Marist before he graduates?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The PFL is a football only conference totally independent of the Horizon ... not sure why they would be concerned (or have any influence over) who their football members play in other sports. Totally different than when Belmont joined the HL for soccer (I believe that was the deal).
All the talk of scheduling basketball games against Butler should probably stop. For obvious reasons, Butler basketball won't be playing Valpo or other Horizon League schools as long as the current administration is in place.
But, if we move to the Valley that might change! Butler played a Valley team last year. How'd that work out for them? ???
The commuter schools in our league get the opportunity to play their big brother all the time. Green Bay and UWM always get to play Wisconsin. IPFW (not yet in the HL) got to host IU.
Man it would be fun if we could get a home-and-home with VCU.
According to ESPN, Valpo was ranked 71 in RPI ranking in the 2016-2017 season. Would have been higher we didn't run into bad luck last season: losing AP to injury and Jubril suspension.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/teamId/2674
https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/857334564922036224
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 26, 2017, 08:27:37 AM
The commuter schools in our league get the opportunity to play their big brother all the time. Green Bay and UWM always get to play Wisconsin. IPFW (not yet in the HL) got to host IU.
As I recall, the IPFW-IU game was considered an IU home game. I think that IU even got to determine the ticket prices.
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2017, 08:03:41 AM
But, if we move to the Valley that might change!
I was referring to the Butler administration I doubt Valpo moving to the MVC will change things much. No inside information, just my opinion.
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2017, 08:03:41 AM
How'd that work out for them? ???
Butler went to their 9th NCAAT and 4th Sweet 16 in the last 11 years, so I guess it worked out OK. Not bad, although I'm sure you'll attribute that to "one lucky recruit". ;)
Quote from: zvillehaze on April 26, 2017, 10:25:59 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2017, 08:03:41 AM
But, if we move to the Valley that might change!
I was referring to the Butler administration I doubt Valpo moving to the MVC will change things much. No inside information, just my opinion.
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2017, 08:03:41 AM
How'd that work out for them? ???
Butler went to their 9th NCAAT and 4th Sweet 16 in the last 11 years, so I guess it worked out OK. Not bad, although I'm sure you'll attribute that to "one lucky recruit". ;)
I suppose it helps to not live in Indiana but why do you all hate Butler so much?
It's not like they are Notre Dame, which are rightfully despised.
Can we stop fixating on Bulter? They did a fantastic job of getting where they are today. I have great respect for the results and the decisions by Butler to get there. Now, lets get beyond this and make our own legacy.
my hate comes from them not playing us anymore
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 26, 2017, 10:56:14 PM
Can we stop fixating on Bulter? They did a fantastic job of getting where they are today. I have great respect for the results and the decisions by Butler to get there. Now, lets get beyond this and make our own legacy.
Two thumbs way up!!
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 26, 2017, 11:17:07 PM
my hate comes from them not playing us anymore
My hate for Butler centers on their fans obnoxiousness AND them not playing us anymore. It could have been different.
My hate for Butler has to do with having played against them in baseball, and their obnoxious/arrogant fan base ;)
Quote from: zvillehaze on April 26, 2017, 10:25:59 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2017, 08:03:41 AM
But, if we move to the Valley that might change!
I was referring to the Butler administration I doubt Valpo moving to the MVC will change things much. No inside information, just my opinion.
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2017, 08:03:41 AM
How'd that work out for them? ???
Butler went to their 9th NCAAT and 4th Sweet 16 in the last 11 years, so I guess it worked out OK. Not bad, although I'm sure you'll attribute that to "one lucky recruit". ;)
WOW!!! Sensitive?? I was just giving a little jab about the loss to Indiana State. I guess I should hang out on your board and feel the Valpo love over there!
Quote from: vu72 on April 27, 2017, 06:39:09 AM
WOW!!! Sensitive?? I was just giving a little jab about the loss to Indiana State. I guess I should hang out on your board and feel the Valpo love over there!
Not at all ... just sending a little jab back your way. It's all good! :thumbsup:
Quote from: valpospartan on April 26, 2017, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 26, 2017, 08:27:37 AM
The commuter schools in our league get the opportunity to play their big brother all the time. Green Bay and UWM always get to play Wisconsin. IPFW (not yet in the HL) got to host IU.
As I recall, the IPFW-IU game was considered an IU home game. I think that IU even got to determine the ticket prices.
It was a home considered a home game for IPFW, but I think they didn't play it at IPFWs place. I believe they moved it to a larger arena so it could accommodate more people (also Crean didn't want to play in another teams building, tougher environment.)
It was a 2 Home - 1 "away" for IU and the ONLY reason they did that was because James Blackmon Jr. was a Fort Wayne native and everyone overwhelmingly thought it was his last year at IU. He recently declared for the NBA but hasn't signed an agent yet so he can still pull out. He may be coming back since he did and IU didn't have the year they wanted. His draft stock took a hit this season.
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 27, 2017, 09:03:51 AMAlso I think Dane Fife had a lot to do with getting this scheduled before he left for Michigan state.
Are you saying that in the spring of 2011 IU and IPFW were scheduling a game for fall of 2016? Talks maybe, but scheduling?
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 27, 2017, 09:03:51 AM
I'm pretty sure that is where IPFW plays their home games normally. I think it was more like 3 or 4 to 1. Also I think Dane Fife had a lot to do with getting this scheduled before he left for Michigan state.
Used to play there. Poor attendance moved them to a 2000 seat campus gym a few years back. Last time we played there (December 2015?) was in the smaller gym.
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The game was an IU home game. IU did set the ticket prices and IPFW was upset that the prices were set at a considerably lower level than they would have chosen. IPFW splits home games between the Hilliard Gates Center on campus and the Memorial Coliseum across the street. They moved 70% of the games back on campus three years ago. I was very disappointed that they chose to play VU at the Gates Center last time we played here in Fort Wayne.
If you remember, the VU/IPFW game didn't even fill their 1,800 seat arena. When IPFW played IU, IU controlled everything, including ticket allotment. IPFW only got around 1,800 tickets for that game. Most of those in attendance were in red and white.
Chicago's rosemont will be hosting the HL tourney. Valpo will be playing a regular season game there against Norte dame.
You think this would get Oakland fans upset?
I hope we all can get past the Butler envy.
Frankly, I pull for Utah in the NBA now. Do you realize that the Jazz roster has three former conference opponents of Valparaiso?
George Hill (IUPUI), Shelvin Mack, and of course Gordon Hayward. Hayward was featured in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. Focus was on his tennis skills and his late growth growth spurt. He averages 22 points per game now and is amazing to watch. Has the whole game and by all accounts is still a humble kid. What's not to like?
Quote from: VU2014 on April 27, 2017, 08:55:06 AM
Quote from: valpospartan on April 26, 2017, 09:54:11 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 26, 2017, 08:27:37 AM
The commuter schools in our league get the opportunity to play their big brother all the time. Green Bay and UWM always get to play Wisconsin. IPFW (not yet in the HL) got to host IU.
As I recall, the IPFW-IU game was considered an IU home game. I think that IU even got to determine the ticket prices.
It was a home considered a home game for IPFW, but I think they didn't play it at IPFWs place. I believe they moved it to a larger arena so it could accommodate more people (also Crean didn't want to play in another teams building, tougher environment.)
It was a 2 Home - 1 "away" for IU and the ONLY reason they did that was because James Blackmon Jr. was a Fort Wayne native and everyone overwhelmingly thought it was his last year at IU. He recently declared for the NBA but hasn't signed an agent yet so he can still pull out. He may be coming back since he did and IU didn't have the year they wanted. His draft stock took a hit this season.
I couldn't imagine if they had played that game in Gates at IPFW. Crean would have torn down one of the men's volleyball national championship banners hanging in his eyes and said "Well, let's see them fire me now."
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 27, 2017, 12:25:53 PM
I hope we all can get past the Butler envy.
Frankly, I pull for Utah in the NBA now. Do you realize that the Jazz roster has three former conference opponents of Valparaiso?
George Hill (IUPUI), Shelvin Mack, and of course Gordon Hayward. Hayward was featured in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. Focus was on his tennis skills and his late growth growth spurt. He averages 22 points per game now and is amazing to watch. Has the whole game and by all accounts is still a humble kid. What's not to like?
Agreed!
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 27, 2017, 01:02:47 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 27, 2017, 12:25:53 PM
I hope we all can get past the Butler envy.
Frankly, I pull for Utah in the NBA now. Do you realize that the Jazz roster has three former conference opponents of Valparaiso?
George Hill (IUPUI), Shelvin Mack, and of course Gordon Hayward. Hayward was featured in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. Focus was on his tennis skills and his late growth growth spurt. He averages 22 points per game now and is amazing to watch. Has the whole game and by all accounts is still a humble kid. What's not to like?
Agreed!
I root for all the Horizon League NBA players, EXCEPT Ray McCallum Jr....
I'm playing WHAT IF again...........
WHAT IF.... Valpo is invited and accepts a slot in the MVC effective with the 2017-18 season. Depending on how many teams the MVC adds (1, 2 or 3) our MVC schedule will be pretty pat (athough the rumored 20 game conference schdule with 11 members would remove 2 OOC games from the schedule). It's the OOC games that I wonder about. Matt is already working on that, and as in past years, I doubt that schedule will be released for some time. I hope it is as robust as last years, but who knows, given the vagaries of mid-major scheduling.
Back to the WHAT IF. If Valpo leaves the HL, at this late date I doubt the HL will be able to replace us for 2017-18. Therefore, two OOC slots open for the remaining 9 HL teams. Could that be a good thing for both Valpo and those teams in the HL who might benefit by scheduling us? I'm thinking that Valpo would have it's pick of the highest rated teams (if they are interested) and could use that to bolster our OOC opponents RPI average. Valpo's RPI would definitely enhance theirs. For instance, I'd go after OU and try to keep that as an annual thing alternating home games annually. I think that in 2017 NKU might have a suitable RPI making them worthy of scheduling.
Anyone have thoughts on this?
On a different, but related thought, might we be trying to get a game with Vermont, in Burlington, so that Tevonn and Max can have kind of a Montreal homecoming in their senior year (it's just a 90 minute drive south from Montreal)?
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 28, 2017, 09:01:13 AMOn a different, but related thought, might we be trying to get a game with Vermont, in Burlington, so that Tevonn and Max can have kind of a Montreal homecoming in their senior year (it's just a 90 minute drive south from Montreal)?
They could combine with their monthly day of shopping and skiing.
Looks like we will be going to Purdue next year.
Looks like we can pencil in purdue, ball state and northwestern for that second week of December! That'll be fun!
Quote from: M on April 30, 2017, 09:51:20 AMLooks like we can pencil in purdue, ball state and northwestern for that second week of December! That'll be fun!
At ball St. or at the ARC?
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 30, 2017, 01:29:59 PM
Quote from: M on April 30, 2017, 09:51:20 AMLooks like we can pencil in purdue, ball state and northwestern for that second week of December! That'll be fun!
At ball St. or at the ARC?
Its at Ball State this year. Did we schedule a new Home and Home schedule with Ball State? We've played them the last 4 years. I think its good for In-State teams to be playing each other (We're waiting at the phone Butler, IU, and Notre Dame. And surely Purdue didn't schedule a Home and Home with us. Maybe they scheduled 2 home - 1 away but unlikely...we would have heard that by now in that leak. I can't stand the P6 scheduling cartel in the NCAA)
(16-17) @ ARC. We won 79-73 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400917023
(15-16) @ Ball State. Ball State won 69-66 (it was right after the west coast trip to play Oregon/Oregon St, we looked really tired that game) http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400841854
(14-15) @ ARC. We won 65-62. http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400587442
(13-14) @ Ball State. We won 69-50 http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400507088
Quote from: VU2014 on April 30, 2017, 03:15:16 PMIts at Ball State this year. Did we schedule a new Home and Home schedule with Ball State? We've played them the last 4 years. I think its good for In-State teams to be playing each other (We're waiting at the phone Butler, IU, and Notre Dame. And surely Purdue didn't schedule a Home and Home with us. Maybe they scheduled 2 home - 1 away but unlikely...we would have heard that by now in that leak. I can't stand the P6 scheduling cartel in the NCAA)
I suspect that Purdue and Northwestern were willing only because we are expected to have a somewhat down year (but maybe not). Wouldn't be surprised if Butler could also work us in for a one and done trip to Hinkle. :rant: As good as we are now expecting to be in 18-19, I doubt that any of them will find room to squeeze us in anywhere for the 18-19 season. I hope I am wrong.
Well maybe we are getting a home & home with Purdue.... (maybe). Not feeling confident that a home and home is in the cards but I saw this so I thought I'd just share it.
https://twitter.com/Boiler_ray/status/858666609308831745
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/858706624478932993
https://twitter.com/Boiler_ray/status/858743889548771328
Purdue has been willing to play us at the ARC before. I have nothing against them, as they don't require us to have a neutral court 'home' game like an IU, ND, etc.
Purdue would not play us anymore at the ARC while Keady was coaching.
Quote from: valpo64 on May 01, 2017, 09:10:52 AM
Purdue would not play us anymore at the ARC while Keady was coaching.
I don't think they'll come to the ARC either more because they don't want to give up $ of a home game.
I think there is a small chance they play us because Sasha Stefanovic is local kid who played for Crown Point. So maybe sometime in the next 4 years. I'd happily sign a 2 away for 1 home if we could get that done. Purdue came to the ARC for Robbie Hummel who ended up being injured.
Quotewouldn't be surprised if Butler could also work us in for a one and done trip to Hinkle.
I'd be stunned if we were willing to play a buy game at Butler. We might be willing to swallow our pride and do a 2-for-1, or a one-off neutral site game, but I'm fairly certain we aren't going to schedule them at their place without a return game. (More importantly, I think Butler has *zero* interest in playing and losing to us again).
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 01, 2017, 09:43:38 AM
Quotewouldn't be surprised if Butler could also work us in for a one and done trip to Hinkle.
I'd be stunned if we were willing to play a buy game at Butler. We might be willing to swallow our pride and do a 2-for-1, or a one-off neutral site game, but I'm fairly certain we aren't going to schedule them at their place without a return game. (More importantly, I think Butler has *zero* interest in playing and losing to us again).
This.
But I'd swallow our pride and take a 2-for-1 for Butler. You know you'll be able to sell out that game when Butler comes to the ARC and you know you'd be getting a Top 25 opponent on the schedule every year for the next 3 years. Also its easy travel for Valpo. I'd do a 2-for-1 for any 4 of Purdue, IU, Butler and Notre Dame. Not sure those schools would want to risk coming into the ARC.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 01, 2017, 09:52:52 AMQuote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 01, 2017, 09:43:38 AMQuotewouldn't be surprised if Butler could also work us in for a one and done trip to Hinkle.
I'd be stunned if we were willing to play a buy game at Butler. We might be willing to swallow our pride and do a 2-for-1, or a one-off neutral site game, but I'm fairly certain we aren't going to schedule them at their place without a return game. (More importantly, I think Butler has *zero* interest in playing and losing to us again).
This. But I'd swallow our pride and take a 2-for-1 for Butler. You know you'll be able to sell out that game when Butler comes to the ARC and you know you'd be getting a Top 25 opponent on the schedule every year for the next 3 years. Also its easy travel for Valpo. I'd do a 2-for-1 of any 4 of Purdue, IU, Butler and Notre Dame. Not sure those schools would want to risk coming into the ARC.
Ive heard of P5 teams signing 2 for 1 contracts and then just buying out the 1.....I guess you still get paid.
Purdue has shown a willingness to come to the ARC having come in 1997 and 2010. Indiana did come to Hilltop in 1919!!
Quote from: vu72 on May 01, 2017, 10:09:46 AM
Purdue has shown a willingness to come to the ARC having come in 1997 and 2010. Indiana did come to Hilltop in 1919!!
Not sure one game in 2010 constitutes willingness (Painter became the coach back in 2005). The only reason they played us was for Robbie Hummel. They scheduled that 2-for-1.
(08-09) Away at Purdue: http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/283632509 (man that 08-09 teams wasn't pretty)
(09-10) Away at Purdue: http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/293432509
(10-11) Home at the ARC: http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/303412674
Coach Painter doesn't typically schedule true away games in other team arenas. Typically plays other teams on neutral sites or does the pay games at their place. They don't go to many other schools buildings.
Would be awesome to have Purdue come to the ARC? Yes. Is it likely? I'm not feeling confident. Small chance I guess. If they were to ever play at another schools place it would make sense to play at Valpo. Valpo is a very good opponent and Purdue would have a decent amount of fans at the game, so it wouldn't be your typical away game.
Would be such an electric environment with any of Purdue, IU, Butler, Notre Dame coming into the ARC and there is a decent chance ESPN would put the game on the ESPN2 if there was no other big sports events that night. It would likely get on ESPNU at the very least.
Hilltop wAsn't built until 1939. The old gymnasium was built about 1907, burning down in 1927
QuoteNot sure one game in 2010 constitutes willingness (Painter became the coach back in 2005). The only reason they played us was for Robbie Hummel. They scheduled that 2-for-1.
Purdue also visited the ARC in 1997-98 and 2001-02, the latter being a game where we were down one score and bobbled a clean look on the final possession.
Quote from: talksalot on May 01, 2017, 10:40:37 AM
Hilltop wAsn't built until 1939. The old gymnasium was built about 1907, burning down in 1927
Good catch!
Yes, I was about to mention the FR year Ali Berdiel blunder, when we had a chance to win at the end. Purdue came to the ARC with Keady.
QuoteIve heard of P5 teams signing 2 for 1 contracts and then just buying out the 1.....I guess you still get paid.
Yep. This is why the non-P5 should always insist on the return game being the first or the middle game in the series. Utah did this to Ball State the year before last after the Cardinals traveled to SLC for the first two games of the series. (Incidentally, something as small as this could have kept VU from getting the at-large last year. BSU had to scramble to get another game and ended up playing a 300+ D-1 team -- not only did Utah cancel on the return game, but they did it just a couple months before the season started, which was so late that Utah had to pay a $200K penalty in the contract -- which likely dropped BSU's overall RPI a good 10+ spots on its own. Now imagine if BSU had upset Utah in Muncie -- you're talking a significant RPI boost and VU's loss there is maybe mitigated enough to get the at-large).
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 01, 2017, 10:57:24 AM
QuoteNot sure one game in 2010 constitutes willingness (Painter became the coach back in 2005). The only reason they played us was for Robbie Hummel. They scheduled that 2-for-1.
Purdue also visited the ARC in 1997-98 and 2001-02, the latter being a game where we were down one score and bobbled a clean look on the final possession.
The College basketball landscape has changed dramatically the 10-15yrs. The way schools do business and schedule is different then they use to.
I think you can only go off what the current head-coach has done. I give Coach Painter credit for scheduling a 2-for-1 with Valpo about 10 years ago. Maybe he would be willing to do it again. I'm not saying its impossible, just unlikely.
Purdue has only scheduled 4 true OOC away games at other schools arenas in the past 4(!) seasons. (thats insane and is just points to how screwed up NCAA CBB has become. Its a P6 scheduling cartel). Of those 4 games they were all P5 schools: Louisville (16-17), Pitt (15-16), Vandy (14-15), & West Virginia (13-14).
Well we have our answer...
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/859092315809492992
Quote from: valpotx on May 01, 2017, 10:59:20 AM
Yes, I was about to mention the FR year Ali Berdiel blunder, when we had a chance to win at the end. Purdue came to the ARC with Keady.
What I really liked about that game was the VU student who dressed like Keady and mimicked him most of the game from the opposite sideline.
So is Valpo getting paid for this game at Purdue if they are not returning a game at Valpo or giving us a 2-for-1?
Quote from: bbtds on May 01, 2017, 01:02:27 PM
Quote from: valpotx on May 01, 2017, 10:59:20 AM
Yes, I was about to mention the FR year Ali Berdiel blunder, when we had a chance to win at the end. Purdue came to the ARC with Keady.
What I really liked about that game was the VU student who dressed like Keady and mimicked him most of the game from the opposite sideline.
I am still friends with the guy you're talking about to this day. He was hilarious that night, and even Gene Keady got a few good laughs from it.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 30, 2017, 01:29:59 PM
Quote from: M on April 30, 2017, 09:51:20 AMLooks like we can pencil in purdue, ball state and northwestern for that second week of December! That'll be fun!
At ball St. or at the ARC?
Osipoff gives us the dates.
[tweet]858686257756610560[/tweet]
Both the Purdue (Dec 7) and Northwestern (Dec 14) games will be on Thursdays. This will be much easier travel than the Oregon, Oregon St swing of 15-16 and the separate trips to Oregon and Kentucky in 16-17.
How competitive will we be in early December? I can imagine a broad range of possible answers.
I have already expressed my optimism for our 18-19 team prospects. Are either of these opponents willing to sign us for an 18-19 return trip? If not why not?
Kudos to ML, as those are three high-quality OOC games. Do not be surprised if Ball State is a Top 100 squad next year. They have nearly everyone back from a 21-win team and added a scoring SF out of Hamilton SE who de-committed from IU after Crean got fired, as well as a 3-star PG from Minnesota who had Big 12 offers.
Quote from: justducky on May 02, 2017, 02:37:45 PM
Both the Purdue (Dec 7) and Northwestern (Dec 14) games will be on Thursdays. This will be much easier travel than the Oregon, Oregon St swing of 15-16 and the separate trips to Oregon and Kentucky in 16-17.
How competitive will we be in early December? I can imagine a broad range of possible answers.
I have already expressed my optimism for our 18-19 team prospects. Are either of these opponents willing to sign us for an 18-19 return trip? If not why not?
I remember that Oregon/Oregon State west coast trip and then we had that quick turn around to play Ball State at their place a few years ago. The guys looked so tired coming back from that west coast trip and we barely lost to Ball State. That loss really hurt us in the Select committees eyes... even if we won that game we still probably wouldn't get an out-right bid knowing the those cronies in the select committee.
There is going to be a learning curve this season, especially in the early going because we will have a lot of new faces getting big minutes. There will naturally be some growing pains. Luckily we will likely have a few tune up games before this stretch to build some chemistry.
Sounds like December is going to be a really fun stretch of games.
How's this for counting unhatched chickens.....
[tweet]864113611291189248[/tweet]
Some OOC scheduling news! We will be playing Utah State as part of the MVC/Mountain West challenge.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/864113611291189248
OOC next season:
-Utah State (home)
-Santa Clara? (I believe the SC game last year a 1-for-1, correct? I know we took the game b/c it allowed their star SR Jared Brownridge to play close to home for his SR year in front of friends & family. Maybe it was just single game but I thought I remembered someone saying it was a 1-for-1, which means we'd be likely making another long west coast road trip and maybe playing a neutral site tourney or something.)
-Northwestern (away)
-Purdue (away)
-Ball State (away)
Utah State last year:
-Record: 14-17 (7-11) finished 3rd to last in the conference next year.
An interesting match up. Very young team least year but they have recruited pretty well the last 2 years. They have a kid who 3.7 stars in Koby McEwen who was only a freshman and suppose to be an absolute stud. Nice to see a Mountain West school in the ARC next season. Should be a fun game.
An interesting note is that Utah State was where John Middleton transferred from last year (and then he transferred from Valpo within about a month or two after getting suspended for "breaking team rules". We never got to know the kid. Think he transferred to a JUCO school).
Curious how they pick the match ups.
We also have that potential future Vandy game coming... not sure if it will be this season or future seasons. I'd prefer getting them at home in the 2018-209 season. We'll see what happens there.
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/864120563278782464
http://www.mwcconnection.com/2017/5/15/15640744/breaking-mountain-west-missouri-valley-challenge-matchups-announced
Breaking: Mountain West/Missouri Valley Challenge matchups announced:
The MWC/MVC Challenge matchups are released.
by Eli Boettger@boettger_eli May 15, 2017
The 2017 Mountain West/Missouri Valley Challenge matchups were released Monday morning, per CBS Sports' Jon Rothstein.
Here is the list of matchups, with (H) marked next to the home team.
..........
2017 MVC/MW Challenge:
-Bradley at San Diego State
-Air Force at Indiana State
-San Jose State at Southern Illinois
-Illinois State at Nevada
-UNLV at Northern Iowa
-Colorado State at Missouri State
-Loyola (Illinois) at Boise State
-Evansville at New Mexico
-Utah State at Valpo
-Drake at Wyoming
Valpo played Utah State in the Big Island Invitational in Hilo, Hawaii in November of 1995. Valpo won the game.
The Utah State coach was Larry Eustachy. He later was fired at Iowa State for drinking and partying with coeds.
He was an idiot at that tournament. Thought he was big-time. Was late to a pre-tourney press conference and thought he was too good to be there, so it was nice when that VU team (Bryce's soph year) kicked their asses.
An interesting article being critical of the MVC/MW Challenge.
Would selfishly love a MVC vs A10 challenge. That would be a great challenge but the A10 probably wouldn't go for it. Also logistical problems with a A10 14 teams vs MVC 10 teams. Maybe they could let the A10 pick the 4 additional match-ups against whichever 4 opponents they'd want? Either way, still highly unlikely because the A10 would probably only see risk in a MVC Challenge... Would be some great match-ups though...
http://www.mwcconnection.com/2016/5/29/11765064/the-mountain-west-missouri-valley-challenge-more-harm-than-help
The Mountain West/Missouri Valley Challenge: More Harm Than Help
The Mountain West has struggled to make noise in non-conference play in recent years. The MWC/MVC Challenge shoulders a great deal of the blame.
by Eli Boettger@boettger_eli May 29, 2016, 5:26pm PDT
The ACC/Big Ten and Big 12/SEC Challenge schedules were unveiled this week via CBS Sports. As you could imagine, both Challenges are full of intriguing and important games, including national runner-up North Carolina taking on Indiana, Duke hosting Michigan State and a rematch of last season's overtime thriller between blue bloods Kentucky and Kansas.
As conference commissioners should, the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC leaders waited until late May to ensure that the best possible matchups would be featured this upcoming season.
............
I am guessing that the likelihood of Valparaiso accepting the invitation is almost a certainty, given that they are already including Valpo in the MVC/MW challenge.
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 15, 2017, 10:33:28 AM
I am guessing that the likelihood of Valparaiso accepting the invitation is almost a certainty, given that they are already including Valpo in the MVC/MW challenge.
Yeah there was no way we were turning down an invite.
Paul mentioned on Union Street Hoops that there is a rumored by-law that apparently once you publicly state your intentions to leave the conference then the Horizon League can immediately pull your teams from post-season play which would affect Valpo's softball and Baseball teams. So we won't probably get an official announcement till after baseball is finished up likely. Pretty petty rule, imo... Don't care if it "makes sense" for the HL to want their teams potentially representing them. But whatever. Makes sense for the Athletics Department/Coaches/etc. to just not say anything to play it safe.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 15, 2017, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 15, 2017, 10:33:28 AM
I am guessing that the likelihood of Valparaiso accepting the invitation is almost a certainty, given that they are already including Valpo in the MVC/MW challenge.
Yeah there was no way we were turning down an invite.
Paul mentioned on Union Street Hoops that there is a rumored by-law that apparently once you publicly state your intentions to leave the conference then the Horizon League can immediately pull your teams from post-season play which would affect Valpo's softball and Baseball teams. So we won't probably get an official announcement till after baseball is finished up likely. Pretty petty rule, imo... Don't care if it "makes sense" for the HL to want their teams potentially representing them. But whatever. Makes sense for the Athletics Department/Coaches/etc. to just not say anything to play it safe.
Vulnerability being that only 6 of the 7 teams make the league playoff and the HL could just leave Valpo out in the cold if they so desire once we announce the move allowing all of the remaining HL teams to participate.
Softball is done after the UDM loss on Friday; Baseball clinched a berth in the HL tournament winning 3 of 4 games this weekend, including a split with league-leading UIC.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 15, 2017, 10:31:54 AM
An interesting article being critical of the MVC/MW Challenge.
Would selfishly love a MVC vs A10 challenge. That would be a great challenge but the A10 probably wouldn't go for it. Also logistical problems with a A10 14 teams vs MVC 10 teams. Maybe they could let the A10 pick the 4 additional match-ups against whichever 4 opponents they'd want? Either way, still highly unlikely because the A10 would probably only see risk in a MVC Challenge... Would be some great match-ups though...
http://www.mwcconnection.com/2016/5/29/11765064/the-mountain-west-missouri-valley-challenge-more-harm-than-help
The Mountain West/Missouri Valley Challenge: More Harm Than Help
The Mountain West has struggled to make noise in non-conference play in recent years. The MWC/MVC Challenge shoulders a great deal of the blame.
by Eli Boettger@boettger_eli May 29, 2016, 5:26pm PDT
The ACC/Big Ten and Big 12/SEC Challenge schedules were unveiled this week via CBS Sports. As you could imagine, both Challenges are full of intriguing and important games, including national runner-up North Carolina taking on Indiana, Duke hosting Michigan State and a rematch of last season's overtime thriller between blue bloods Kentucky and Kansas.
As conference commissioners should, the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and SEC leaders waited until late May to ensure that the best possible matchups would be featured this upcoming season.
............
Your reference article is a year old. The complaint that MWC/MVC matchups were decided too soon (December 2015) rather than waiting until May 2016 (like the Big 10/ACC) has obviously been remiedied this year, since the matchups were just announced.
Yep I know. Still relevant I think. Just saw the writer retweet it out.
I think Valpo fans appreciate the challenge more then the typical MVC fan because we know how hard OOC scheduling can be. Unfortunately sometimes thee challenges don't work out as well as planned. Would really love a A10 challenge, but unlikely.
I saw a few HL fans calling for a MVC vs HL Challenge... which I think Valpo/other MVC teams would probably have literally 0 interest in because you can pretty much schedule HL teams OOC whenever you want (as long as schedules are't conflicting) without needing a challenge. Could see why the HL would want it. But I guess the same could be said about why the A10 wouldn't want a MVC challenge, less to gain from that A10 Conference (especially the upper-tier A10 schools).
I think this conference challenge is great. Think about being able to play a top tier Mid-Major every year. They bring Colorado State, San Diego State Nevada, New Mexico etc. The only thing potentially better would be the West Coast Conference with games against Gonzaga, St. Mary's and BYU.
Quote from: bsmith21 on May 15, 2017, 01:40:24 PM
as far as mid major conference goes I would much rather see a mvc/A-10 or MVC/American
So, U Conn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston et al are now mid-majors?? The Valley would be murdered.
Quote from: vu72 on May 15, 2017, 02:05:09 PM
Quote from: bsmith21 on May 15, 2017, 01:40:24 PM
as far as mid major conference goes I would much rather see a mvc/A-10 or MVC/American
So, U Conn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston et al are now mid-majors?? The Valley would be murdered.
If we went into this wanting SOS, makes sense. If we wanted to win a challenge....not so much.
http://www.mwcconnection.com/2017/5/15/15640744/breaking-mountain-west-missouri-valley-challenge-matchups-announced
A little more gratitude might be in order about the MVC's ability to arrange something our former conference could not. Let's wait until we win a game or 3 before suggesting a more worthy opposing conference.
Interesting to see the Mountain West is ranked above the A10 in the Preseason KenPom rankings. These are before Valpo joined the MVC (likely wouldn't change after adding Valpo).
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/850389750313701376
Also Utah State appears to be a much stronger team next year. Their best player was a freshman 3.7-star PG. Quite a few other very talented young players. Could turn out to be a pretty good opponent.
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/864122849174401024
https://twitter.com/kylesportsbias/status/864190278332104704
Let's be ecstatic to be part of an MVC/MWC challenge. That will be fantastic for us as we continue to win, as we will get better match-ups.
Quote from: bsmith21 on May 15, 2017, 03:09:01 PM
QuoteQuote from: vu72 on May 15, 2017, 02:05:09 PMSo, U Conn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston et al are now mid-majors?? The Valley would be murdered
Considering that last year they got 2 teams in tournament I absolutely consider the American a mid major conference. If you want to maybe say they are something in between such as h mid I might agree with you there but they are a lot closer to the mid majors then they are to the power conferences.
To answer your question yes I believe those teams are all now mid majors by the fact that they are in what I would consider a mid major conference. Just like Gonzaga is a mid major. some of those teams used to not be mid majors and now they are. Just like creighton, Butler and Xavier used to be mid majors and now they arent
Way to much focus on conference and one year results. Gonzaga, Cincy, U Conn fans would find you analysis laughable.
Quote from: bsmith21 on May 15, 2017, 03:09:01 PM
QuoteQuote from: vu72 on May 15, 2017, 02:05:09 PMSo, U Conn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Houston et al are now mid-majors?? The Valley would be murdered
Considering that last year they got 2 teams in tournament I absolutely consider the American a mid major conference. If you want to maybe say they are something in between such as high mid I might agree with you there but they are a lot closer to the mid majors then they are to the power conferences.
To answer your question yes I believe those teams are all now mid majors by the fact that they are in what I would consider a mid major conference. Just like Gonzaga is a mid major. some of those teams used to not be mid majors and now they are. Just like creighton, Butler and Xavier used to be mid majors and now they arent
The American Conference is just such a "hodgepodge" of teams that want to be in an "elite" FBS football conferences that are also pretty good basketball conference.
There are so many teams in the AAC that are ready to "jump-ship" to go into a new conference. Lots of discontent members in that conference right now. It's a very strange conference. Future realignment could impact that conference if the P5 or Big East (non-football) choose to start grabbing schools. The Big 12 was really close to taking Houston last year and could add them eventually
We're not even officially in the Valley yet, and they've already landed us one more quality non-conference home game than the HL ever did. I'm gonna love Valpo being in this league. 8-)
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 15, 2017, 04:22:21 PM
We're not even officially in the Valley yet, and they've already landed us one more quality non-conference home game than the HL ever did. I'm gonna love Valpo being in this league. 8-)
BEST POST OF THE DAY :thumbsup:
Quote from: valpotx on May 15, 2017, 03:40:37 PMLet's be ecstatic to be part of an MVC/MWC challenge.
While good there are some drawbacks to this setup. Most road teams go half way across the country for one Saturday game. So you get an additional home game with a reasonably equal opponent every other year. If this is about strengthening schedules and RPI boost seems like a Friday, Sunday 2 game MVC/MWC challenge swing could be the better option. Yes it is a long way from Boise to San Diego and VU to Missouri St but I have to wonder if this approach has been studied?
Quote from: justducky on May 15, 2017, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: valpotx on May 15, 2017, 03:40:37 PMLet's be ecstatic to be part of an MVC/MWC challenge.
While good there are some drawbacks to this setup. Most road teams go half way across the country for one Saturday game. So you get an additional home game with a reasonably equal opponent every other year. If this is about strengthening schedules and RPI boost seems like a Friday, Sunday 2 game MVC/MWC challenge swing could be the better option. Yes it is a long way from Boise to San Diego and VU to Missouri St but I have to wonder if this approach has been studied?
Rest assured, every party needs a pooper! :(
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 15, 2017, 04:22:21 PM
We're not even officially in the Valley yet, and they've already landed us one more quality non-conference home game than the HL ever did. I'm gonna love Valpo being in this league. 8-)
Agreed. The Horizon definitely dropped the ball in helping teams like Valpo get better non-conference games. Valpo was the marquee program and they did nothing to help them, and with the move to MCM, actually prevented them from getting to the NCAA tournament. Time to move on.
Quote from: justducky on May 15, 2017, 08:31:10 PM
Quote from: valpotx on May 15, 2017, 03:40:37 PMLet's be ecstatic to be part of an MVC/MWC challenge.
While good there are some drawbacks to this setup. Most road teams go half way across the country for one Saturday game. So you get an additional home game with a reasonably equal opponent every other year. If this is about strengthening schedules and RPI boost seems like a Friday, Sunday 2 game MVC/MWC challenge swing could be the better option. Yes it is a long way from Boise to San Diego and VU to Missouri St but I have to wonder if this approach has been studied?
That is a lot of travel for one game ... I wonder if the MVC helps to fund the travel for teams playing road games?
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 15, 2017, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 15, 2017, 04:22:21 PM
We're not even officially in the Valley yet, and they've already landed us one more quality non-conference home game than the HL ever did. I'm gonna love Valpo being in this league. 8-)
Agreed. The Horizon definitely dropped the ball in helping teams like Valpo get better non-conference games. Valpo was the marquee program and they did nothing to help them, and with the move to MCM, actually prevented them from getting to the NCAA tournament. Time to move on.
Just wondering, Does the Big East help pay for Butler's Women's Tennis team playing a match at Providence?
How are these matchups determined? Obviously not by last year's performance as Valpo finished with a higher RPI, record, KPOM, etc than all but one remaining Valley member. Southern Illinois finished third in the conference and plays San Jose State, who finished 9th.
On the flip side, I'd be pretty annoyed if I were the MWC - only TWO current MVC members finished above .500 vs D1 opponents last year.
I'm also curious about who covers the travel costs. I'm just not sure who benefits from Drake using a charter to play a game in Wyoming. Or Air Force traveling to Terre Haute for a single game.
Quote from: a3uge on May 15, 2017, 09:57:55 PMHow are these matchups determined? Obviously not by last year's performance as Valpo finished with a higher RPI, record, KPOM, etc than all but one remaining Valley member. Southern Illinois finished third in the conference and plays San Jose State, who finished 9th.
Good questions but I will withhold comment until an answer is provided.
Quote from: a3uge on May 15, 2017, 09:57:55 PMI'm just not sure who benefits from Drake using a charter to play a game in Wyoming. Or Air Force traveling to Terre Haute for a single game.
This only can work if the projected MVC best are matched with their like matched MWC equivalents. Also Drake swinging from Wyoming to Boise or Air Force swinging from Terra Haute to VU would be a much better use of already scarce weekend opportunities.
Quote from: bsmith21 on May 15, 2017, 01:40:24 PM
as far as mid major conference goes I would much rather see a mvc/A-10 or MVC/American
I would add the MAC to this list as well.
Quote from: covufan on May 16, 2017, 11:03:00 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on May 15, 2017, 01:40:24 PM
as far as mid major conference goes I would much rather see a mvc/A-10 or MVC/American
I would add the MAC to this list as well.
The problem is that the Valley currently sits in an undefined space. It is neither a perennial multi-bid league (like the A10, American, or MWC), nor is it a perennial single-bid like (HL, MAC, OVC, Summit). To schedule a conference challenge will require either a marked step up or down. My preference is always for the step up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: a3uge on May 15, 2017, 09:57:55 PM
How are these matchups determined? Obviously not by last year's performance as Valpo finished with a higher RPI, record, KPOM, etc than all but one remaining Valley member. Southern Illinois finished third in the conference and plays San Jose State, who finished 9th.
On the flip side, I'd be pretty annoyed if I were the MWC - only TWO current MVC members finished above .500 vs D1 opponents last year.
I'm also curious about who covers the travel costs. I'm just not sure who benefits from Drake using a charter to play a game in Wyoming. Or Air Force traveling to Terre Haute for a single game.
Yeah, I'm curious too. Is it a joint committee, or what? I wonder to what extent they put top teams against each other, or consider other factors.
I wonder how much of our match up was designed for "us" and how much might have been designed for Wichita State, or left over after the returning conference teams got their needs or wishes taken care of.
We should have no illusions that they were going to hand the best matchup to the newest member of the league. Illinois State earned the best matchup with their MVC season last year.
The great thing about the MW-MVC Challenge is that the games are played in early December, so you get the RPI quality benefits of a good non-conference opponent without the "at-large elimination game" mentality that ended up souring everyone on the old BracketBuster games in late February.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 16, 2017, 12:19:11 PM
We should have no illusions that they were going to hand the best matchup to the newest member of the league. Illinois State earned the best matchup with their MVC season last year.
The great thing about the MW-MVC Challenge is that the games are played in early December, so you get the RPI quality benefits of a good non-conference opponent without the "at-large elimination game" mentality that ended up souring everyone on the old BracketBuster games in late February.
It's not that we didn't get the best matchup, it's that we got a below .500 team last year. UNLV or Colorado State would have been fun.
Kinda fun reading the history of results of this challenge...
http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2015-16/8509/mountain-west-mvc-challenge-series/#.WRs1_usrInQ
Too bad Hawaii is only a football-affiliate to the Valley...
That's an interesting question--of which I as a Saluki fan have no definitive answer--it appears some anonymous bureaucrats in both leagues take a little bit of this (what the team did last year) and a little bit of that (what kind of team "experts" think a squad will be in 2017-18) and somehow come up with match-ups. I'll look into it and see what the real process is
Nice article that says about what I said --but who are the guys that do it---are the match-ups agreed up by vote?
Quote from: talksalot on May 16, 2017, 12:28:06 PM
Kinda fun reading the history of results of this challenge...
http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2015-16/8509/mountain-west-mvc-challenge-series/#.WRs1_usrInQ
Too bad Hawaii is only a football-affiliate to the Valley...
At first this confused me - I think you meant Hawaii is only a football-affiliate to the Mountain West Conference.
I didn't think that Hawaii had dropped down to FCS.
Quote from: covufan on May 16, 2017, 12:51:39 PMI think you meant Hawaii is only a football-affiliate to the Mountain West Conference.
yeh, I meant that we would never draw them in the "Challenge" competition on the court... shucks.
Quote from: vu72 on May 15, 2017, 09:38:46 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 15, 2017, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 15, 2017, 04:22:21 PM
We're not even officially in the Valley yet, and they've already landed us one more quality non-conference home game than the HL ever did. I'm gonna love Valpo being in this league. 8-)
Agreed. The Horizon definitely dropped the ball in helping teams like Valpo get better non-conference games. Valpo was the marquee program and they did nothing to help them, and with the move to MCM, actually prevented them from getting to the NCAA tournament. Time to move on.
Just wondering, Does the Big East help pay for Butler's Women's Tennis team playing a match at Providence?
I have no idea on your question, but was just wondering if when the MVC requires a team to travel to the west coast for this challenge if they would help defer the travel costs. I guess MVC teams are free to schedule a 2nd game in the area on their own to make the trip worthwhile. Similar to some of the discussion of Valpo scheduling a 2nd west coast game if they need to return the Santa Clara game from last season. That would make some sense, at least to me.
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 16, 2017, 10:12:40 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 15, 2017, 09:38:46 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 15, 2017, 09:24:14 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 15, 2017, 04:22:21 PM
We're not even officially in the Valley yet, and they've already landed us one more quality non-conference home game than the HL ever did. I'm gonna love Valpo being in this league. 8-)
Agreed. The Horizon definitely dropped the ball in helping teams like Valpo get better non-conference games. Valpo was the marquee program and they did nothing to help them, and with the move to MCM, actually prevented them from getting to the NCAA tournament. Time to move on.
Just wondering, Does the Big East help pay for Butler's Women's Tennis team playing a match at Providence?
I have no idea on your question, but was just wondering if when the MVC requires a team to travel to the west coast for this challenge if they would help defer the travel costs. I guess MVC teams are free to schedule a 2nd game in the area on their own to make the trip worthwhile. Similar to some of the discussion of Valpo scheduling a 2nd west coast game if they need to return the Santa Clara game from last season. That would make some sense, at least to me.
I looked through every MVC and MWC schedule last year, and nobody was able to turn that into a close 2-game trip. For example, Indiana State traveled to Utah State on a Saturday, and then was at home for a road game vs Butler.
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/865923260717965312
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/865922675956490244
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/865922783003508739
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/865922881192177664
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/865922940197580800
Just because I was curious I took a look at the HL and MVC had for non-conference scheduling last year.
HL - 58.27% Home/Neutral, 44.88% Home, 41.73% Away
MVC (w/o Wichita State) - 73.21% Home/Neutral, 51.79% Home, 26.79% Away
Wichita State's split was 92.31% Home/Neutral, 61.54% Home, 7.69% Away
There are outliers in there, however. Valpo for instance was 76.92% Home/Neutral, 61.54% Home, 23.08% Away. Oakland was similar at 84.62% Home/Neutral, 61.54% Home, 16.38% Away. Valpo had one more away game, while Oakland's was on a neutral floor. The WCC is similar as well:
WCC - 79.51% Home/Neutral, 59.84% Home, 20.49% Away
But the big name programs in that league (Gonzaga, St. Mary's, BYU), their combined split was 94.44% Home/Neutral, 66.67% Home, 5.56% (2 games) Away.
Moral of the story is that if you're a really good program, even if you're in a mid-major conference, you're going to get invited to neutral site tourneys and be able to play more games at home. It takes time and being consistently good to get to that point (and I don't deny that it's now probably harder to get to that point than before), but it can happen.
Nice analysis and the moral of the story is spot on, IMO.
Thoughts? He was trying to predict Valpo's OOC schedule next season.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/866335678124220416
Quote from: VU2014 on March 07, 2017, 04:48:07 PMQuote (selected)
Bradley, Northern Iowa, Illinois St?
QuoteSomething to keep in mind is that we recruit a lot of the same players so its really tough to swallow a loss to these schools. Thats one reason I'm guessing its tough to schedule them.
Not anymore!
Quote from: covufan on March 15, 2017, 07:52:37 PMWe need a home and home with Illinois State, if possible.
Gauranteed.
QuoteNow only if we could convince Scott to schedule us for a home & away game. Any possibility of that now that Bryce left the program?
Quote from: historyman on May 22, 2017, 03:05:31 PM
Quote from: covufan on March 15, 2017, 07:52:37 PMWe need a home and home with Illinois State, if possible.
Gauranteed.
Okay, maybe we now need a home and home with Oakland (in a few years)!
Look, I like Greg Kampe as much as the next guy, and I'm fine with scheduling Oakland at some point in the future. But I fail to see why we are treating this as some unbreakable rivalry that has to happen right away. Why don't we first see if being in a higher profile conference might open up some doors for us first and give us a crack at some new opponents that might not have been willing to schedule us before?
Again, don't get me wrong -- I respect the program OU has built, and give me Oakland in a heartbeat instead of OOC games against IPFW, Coppin State, Chicago State, or non-D1s. I just don't get the thinking that it's a sacrosanct rivalry that needs to be played year in and year out and automatically needs to be accounted for on next year's slate (unless the HL's giving us a discount on our exit fee to do so). It's a decent and modestly-interesting conference series because of all the close games the two schools played in the Mid-Con and HL over the past decade or so, but really, it's not *that* big of a deal long-term. Conference implications are what gave the series its heat. I could not have been less interested in the few non-conference games we played against them after we left for the HL and they remained in the Summit.
Bigmosmith, I don't think it's a sanctified rivalry, but there is a very key strategic reason to schedule them for home and home: their W/L record will likely help our RPI much better than anyone else that we can reasonably get. It is a good bet that they will be a consistent 20-10. Since opponents' W/L is 50% of RPI, having Oakland's 20-10 record in our calculation would be a great benefit for us.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 22, 2017, 09:00:34 PM
Look, I like Greg Kampe as much as the next guy, and I'm fine with scheduling Oakland at some point in the future. But I fail to see why we are treating this as some unbreakable rivalry that has to happen right away. Why don't we first see if being in a higher profile conference might open up some doors for us first and give us a crack at some new opponents that might not have been willing to schedule us before?
Again, don't get me wrong -- I respect the program OU has built, and give me Oakland in a heartbeat instead of OOC games against IPFW, Coppin State, Chicago State, or non-D1s. I just don't get the thinking that it's a sacrosanct rivalry that needs to be played year in and year out and automatically needs to be accounted for on next year's slate (unless the HL's giving us a discount on our exit fee to do so). It's a decent and modestly-interesting conference series because of all the close games the two schools played in the Mid-Con and HL over the past decade or so, but really, it's not *that* big of a deal long-term. Conference implications are what gave the series its heat. I could not have been less interested in the few non-conference games we played against them after we left for the HL and they remained in the Summit.
100% agree. I enjoyed the OU rivalry the last few years after Kampe landed a few of those talented High major transfers + Kay Felder, when they weren't a bad team and started to get better (won't miss Martez Walkers attitude/show boating though...). I'd like to play them again down the road but it may not be realistic to schedule this season because its pretty late in the game for OOC scheduling, because them and us already have games on the books for next season and probably tough to make each others schedules work. As long as OU is a good opponent (RPI boost or at the very least not an RPI drag then I'd like play them).
I just want the OOC games like the Chicago State games to stop... not saying we're above playing those teams but they have been particularly bad offer no challenge or fan interest in those games and could hurt our RPI and strength of schedule. I know Coach Gore mentioned on Paul's podcast that he has a lot of respect for their program and their head coach but I sort of hope we take a break from playing them and sort of play them as a "last resort" if we need a home game. We've played them quite a bit the last few years and it makes sense from the standpoint that we are short bus ride away from them and all.
Scheduling is a tough gig as a mid-major. We have some good ones next year with Purdue and Northwestern.
Remember, with Valpo exiting the HL, OU has 2 additional OOC games slots to fill. And who the heck knows what else is in the pipeline for VU at this point other than what has already been released piecemeal. In the past, we wound up at the end having to schedule non-D-I teams as fillers and breathers. Not anymore.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 22, 2017, 09:00:34 PM
Look, I like Greg Kampe as much as the next guy, and I'm fine with scheduling Oakland at some point in the future. But I fail to see why we are treating this as some unbreakable rivalry that has to happen right away. Why don't we first see if being in a higher profile conference might open up some doors for us first and give us a crack at some new opponents that might not have been willing to schedule us before?
Again, don't get me wrong -- I respect the program OU has built, and give me Oakland in a heartbeat instead of OOC games against IPFW, Coppin State, Chicago State, or non-D1s. I just don't get the thinking that it's a sacrosanct rivalry that needs to be played year in and year out and automatically needs to be accounted for on next year's slate (unless the HL's giving us a discount on our exit fee to do so). It's a decent and modestly-interesting conference series because of all the close games the two schools played in the Mid-Con and HL over the past decade or so, but really, it's not *that* big of a deal long-term. Conference implications are what gave the series its heat. I could not have been less interested in the few non-conference games we played against them after we left for the HL and they remained in the Summit.
Asses+Seats
That is why you schedule Oakland. It is good for business.
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 23, 2017, 08:27:27 AM
Bigmosmith, I don't think it's a sanctified rivalry, but there is a very key strategic reason to schedule them for home and home: their W/L record will likely help our RPI much better than anyone else that we can reasonably get. It is a good bet that they will be a consistent 20-10. Since opponents' W/L is 50% of RPI, having Oakland's 20-10 record in our calculation would be a great benefit for us.
It depends on Oakland's schedule. For years, Oakland played an absurd OOC schedule that pushed them below .500 before the regular season. Then, last year they played an overly easy schedule that kept them out of the top 100 RPI. I think there's a sweet spot in there that they haven't mastered yet.
The trick is to schedule hard games on the road vs top 50 RPI teams, and avoid the 100-150 games. Due to the selection committee's insistince on gating RPIs at round numbers, there's not much gain in winning against a 101 RPI team vs 175 RPI team. The committee also doesn't care about mid major's RPIs vs power conference RPIs when it comes to at large bids anyways, so you might as well schedule 3 or 4 really difficult teams and schedule cupcakes for the rest. I think the above average Ball State - 2015 road game is what gets good mid majors in trouble. It's tricky to predict which teams are going to be good a few years into the future, but you might not see Valpo schedule those 75 RPI range teams on the road.
a3uge, I agree that it all depends on OU scheduling, but given their recent trend away from buy-in OOC scheduling, W/L record going forward should be much better. Here's the trend:
2013-14 - 13-20
2014-15 - 16-17
2015-16 - 23-12
2016-17 - 25-9
If, for the next two years, OU maintains its quality from the last two years, then it is a positive on VU RPI regardless of OU's OOC. OOC counts for only 25%. I'm not ignoring that the fact that an OU W/L of 20-10 with creampuffs gives OU a terrible RPI, which doesn't help VU from the standpoint of wins against high RPI teams, but in an imperfect world, VU must take what it can get. And there simply aren't other teams out there that will give a home-and-home, and will also add to VU's resume. VU simply can't get that on the schedule for all 10 or so home games, so why not take what they can get.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on May 23, 2017, 12:02:45 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 22, 2017, 09:00:34 PM
Look, I like Greg Kampe as much as the next guy, and I'm fine with scheduling Oakland at some point in the future. But I fail to see why we are treating this as some unbreakable rivalry that has to happen right away. Why don't we first see if being in a higher profile conference might open up some doors for us first and give us a crack at some new opponents that might not have been willing to schedule us before?
Again, don't get me wrong -- I respect the program OU has built, and give me Oakland in a heartbeat instead of OOC games against IPFW, Coppin State, Chicago State, or non-D1s. I just don't get the thinking that it's a sacrosanct rivalry that needs to be played year in and year out and automatically needs to be accounted for on next year's slate (unless the HL's giving us a discount on our exit fee to do so). It's a decent and modestly-interesting conference series because of all the close games the two schools played in the Mid-Con and HL over the past decade or so, but really, it's not *that* big of a deal long-term. Conference implications are what gave the series its heat. I could not have been less interested in the few non-conference games we played against them after we left for the HL and they remained in the Summit.
Asses+Seats
That is why you schedule Oakland. It is good for business.
But will playing Oakland really put butts in the seats if we aren't conference rivals with them and if their having a downturn after next season?
I'm for continuing play them down the road but I'm not sure they be as big of a draw now that we aren't going to conference rivals anymore.
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 23, 2017, 01:03:15 PM
a3uge, I agree that it all depends on OU scheduling, but given their recent trend away from buy-in OOC scheduling, W/L record going forward should be much better. Here's the trend:
2013-14 - 13-20
2014-15 - 16-17
2015-16 - 23-12
2016-17 - 25-9
If, for the next two years, OU maintains its quality from the last two years, then it is a positive on VU RPI regardless of OU's OOC. OOC counts for only 25%. I'm not ignoring that the fact that an OU W/L of 20-10 with creampuffs gives OU a terrible RPI, which doesn't help VU from the standpoint of wins against high RPI teams, but in an imperfect world, VU must take what it can get. And there simply aren't other teams out there that will give a home-and-home, and will also add to VU's resume. VU simply can't get that on the schedule for all 10 or so home games, so why not take what they can get.
When I look at that trend upward I think it has more to do with them picking up those impact Transfers more then their scheduling. Kampe took a few "risks" with some "questionable character" transfers that got into trouble at high-major schools and on the court it has paid off for their W-L record.
Lots of those kids (Kendrick Nunn, Martez Walker, Stevie Clark) are running out of eligibility after next season and along with guys like Jalen Hayes and Nick Daniels are going to be senior next season. It's Tourney or Bust for that Oakland team next season. Next season is going to be important for them and Kampe will need to hit on recruiting next season to replenish the roster.
QuoteAsses+Seats
That is why you schedule Oakland. It is good for business.
I think you vastly overestimate the appeal of that game to the fanbase, especially the casual fans. The attendance of those matchups when the game has not had conference title implications? Not so hot.
Again, I'm not saying "never," just that we should see if we can get some new blood on the schedule first.
Just noticed that I misused my acronyms in the post above. I meant to say that OU's SOS (meaning its opponents' W/L) only accounts for 25% of VU RPI. It was wrong of me to say that OU's OOC counts for 25%. Apologies for any confusion, I'll try to be more careful.
TheD1Docket Twitter page claims Valpo is heading to the Savannah Invitational on November 24-25, along with Kent State, UNCW, and Loyola (IL) (yeah...). Can anyone corroborate this? I haven't been able to find any other source referencing Valpo heading to Savannah. I hope it is true, though. Savannah may be my favorite city in the country, and is a short drive for me from Columbia, SC.
As he mentions, because Loyola (IL) is apparently in the event, Valpo's new conference affiliation could complicate the matter.
Quote from: jtm on May 26, 2017, 08:19:50 AM
TheD1Docket Twitter page claims Valpo is heading to the Savannah Invitational on November 24-25, along with Kent State, UNCW, and Loyola (IL) (yeah...). Can anyone corroborate this? I haven't been able to find any other source referencing Valpo heading to Savannah. I hope it is true, though. Savannah may be my favorite city in the country, and is a short drive for me from Columbia, SC.
As he mentions, because Loyola (IL) is apparently in the event, Valpo's new conference affiliation could complicate the matter.
Yeah that may be a problem. Has there ever been a case of conference opponents playing each other in Non-Conference Neutral site tournaments? I can't remember that ever happening.
I wonder if Valpo is going to be the team that is forced to exit the Tournament because we're the brand new team to the conference. Hopefully it all works out and they just put us on different ends of the tournament.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 26, 2017, 09:16:31 AM
Quote from: jtm on May 26, 2017, 08:19:50 AM
TheD1Docket Twitter page claims Valpo is heading to the Savannah Invitational on November 24-25, along with Kent State, UNCW, and Loyola (IL) (yeah...). Can anyone corroborate this? I haven't been able to find any other source referencing Valpo heading to Savannah. I hope it is true, though. Savannah may be my favorite city in the country, and is a short drive for me from Columbia, SC.
As he mentions, because Loyola (IL) is apparently in the event, Valpo's new conference affiliation could complicate the matter.
Yeah that may be a problem. Has there ever been a case of conference opponents playing each other in Non-Conference Neutral site tournaments? I can't remember that ever happening.
I wonder if Valpo is going to be the team that is forced to exit the Tournament because we're the brand new team to the conference. Hopefully it all works out and they just put us on different ends of the tournament.
Didn't that happen with either Utah or Colorado football when they joined the Pac12? I remember one of them playing a league member (Washington/Wazzu?) "OOC" their first season in the league. It wouldn't be unprecedented.
*Edit* Colorado played a non conference game at home vs Cal Sept 10, 2011...its first season in the Pac12.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Colorado_Buffaloes_football_team?wprov=sfsi1 **
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If my memory serves me right, I thought the rumor was Valpo was going to play in a tournament that featured an ACC school? I'm happy Valpo is playing in any pre-conference tournament. It's great exposure for the program and gives VU a chance to get some resume wins i.e. BYU/Alabama. I really enjoyed making the trip out to Vegas and I'll be headed to Savannah too but I was hoping Valpo could get getting another neutral court game against a power-5 school.
There's a chance it's a 'classic' setup and not a true tournament, in which case it should be simple enough to not schedule Loyola and Valpo versus each other.
2016 Tournament Bracket:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_Invitational
Based on 2016, it looks like an 8-team, low/mid-major tournament. Rounds 1 and 2 at campus sites. Rounds 3 and 4 in Savannah.
Positives - easy way to pick-up 4 D-1 OOC opponents.
Negatives - possible RPI/SOS hit, depending on opponents.
Quote from: wh on May 26, 2017, 09:52:19 AM
2016 Tournament Bracket:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savannah_Invitational
Based on 2016, it looks like an 8-team, low/mid-major tournament. Rounds 1 and 2 at campus sites. Rounds 3 and 4 in Savannah.
Positives - easy way to pick-up 4 D-1 OOC opponents.
Negatives - possible RPI/SOS hit, depending on opponents.
We are going to need a couple of easy opponents early in the year as we are figuring out who we are. Wilmington/Kent State are usually strong. Add in Purdue/Northwestern and that should offset a couple of weak home opponents to start the year. In a rebuilding year you need to not over schedule.
**this assumes the rest of our opponents are respectable and the 2 guaranteed home games are our only extremely low RPI opponents for the season.
That looks like it could have been a good tournament but I agree with 2014. It isn't going down as proposed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_NCAA_Division_I_men%27s_basketball_season
Shows 22 Early Season Tournaments for 2017-18. Savannah is not among them.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 26, 2017, 09:16:31 AM
Quote from: jtm on May 26, 2017, 08:19:50 AM
TheD1Docket Twitter page claims Valpo is heading to the Savannah Invitational on November 24-25, along with Kent State, UNCW, and Loyola (IL) (yeah...). Can anyone corroborate this? I haven't been able to find any other source referencing Valpo heading to Savannah. I hope it is true, though. Savannah may be my favorite city in the country, and is a short drive for me from Columbia, SC.
As he mentions, because Loyola (IL) is apparently in the event, Valpo's new conference affiliation could complicate the matter.
Yeah that may be a problem. Has there ever been a case of conference opponents playing each other in Non-Conference Neutral site tournaments? I can't remember that ever happening.
I wonder if Valpo is going to be the team that is forced to exit the Tournament because we're the brand new team to the conference. Hopefully it all works out and they just put us on different ends of the tournament.
Yes. Butler played Xavier in a neutral site OOC tournament when they first moved to the A10. The game obviously didn't count in the standings, but they only played each other once in the regular season.
Scheduling Oakland is that important? Even though next year they may be loaded, prior to last year and after next year, the importance of us playing them is waaaaay over rated. I could care less if we play them in the future. I must say that it would be a BIG game for "King Kampe" and give him something else to mouth off about. After watching the online presser with Lacrone, it sounds to me like LaC is bent on expanding the HL big time. Let him go for it because they will only end up with a much watered-down product. Let OU worry about that instead of drooling at the possibility of playing us in the future.
a3uge,
I don't think the Butler-Xavier situation is quite an apples to apples comparison. Xavier and Butler only played once because the A10 has so many teams they can't do a round robin. I'm not sure what they would do in this situation. I would hope they would just allow us to keep the tournament since the agreements were made before we joined. (I say this selfishly because I think that the chance to play UNCW and Kent State two programs that won 20+ games last year would be a very good thing for this young team but the fact that Loyola(Chicago) and Valpo are now conference foes again may indeed complicate matters. After all, we saw a nonconference agreement with Indiana State terminated since the two schools will now play each other in conference. I honestly don't think it will be a problem and here's why: 1. Butler and Xavier have already done this before as you have said, and 2. the Phil Knight Tournament this year features many teams from the same conferences. I'm not sure how that tournament is going to be run since it's new, but I don't think having multiple teams from the same conference is an issue for tournaments. It just won't count in the conference standings obviously. I don't know this for sure but I am simply speculating based on some limited evidence of similar cases from the past and present.
UNCW just lost two players following their coach to NC State.
Hey 64 is the real reason you don't want to play us is that we've beat you 9 of the last 14 we've played, ( a sweep this year would have made it 11/16) or that Lexus Williams will be our starting point guard next year.
Good luck in your new world. I'm setting the over under at 24 months on a long thread on here as to why Valpo needs a new league because the Valley sucks and its holding you down. 10 bucks. Any takers
GRIZZ,
I get from your post that you think that the real reason for VU leaving is a fear of losing to OU. Fear of losing to OU is not a fear of anyone on this board. Many, including myself, have lobbied for support to play Oakland each year because it would be easy to schedule, and would likely help VU's RPI. The main arguments against that position have been 1) OU is yesterday's news, and 2) Oakwood would not help VU's image in front of the committee because its own RPI is usually not good, therefore, it does not give VU a good win against a top school. Leaving HL for MVC due to fear of ANY team in the HL simply isn't a thought. I lump your comment into the category of "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned."
Quote from: Grizz on May 28, 2017, 09:01:18 AM
Hey 64 is the real reason you don't want to play us is that we've beat you 9 of the last 14 we've played, ( a sweep this year would have made it 11/16) or that Lexus Williams will be our starting point guard next year.
Good luck in your new world. I'm setting the over under at 24 months on a long thread on here as to why Valpo needs a new league because the Valley sucks and its holding you down. 10 bucks. Any takers
Interesting comment. Lexus is a first class guy, no doubt. Not sure he really fits on a team of "second chancers". I also find it interesting that in your gloating about how good you are, you note that Lexus will be your starting point guard. Grizz, Lexus left us because the hand writing was on the wall for him. "Stay at Valpo and get very limited playing time". In any event, good luck next year.
Quote from: a3uge on May 26, 2017, 10:56:05 AM
Yes. Butler played Xavier in a neutral site OOC tournament when they first moved to the A10. The game obviously didn't count in the standings, but they only played each other once in the regular season.
Butler and Xavier played each other at Xavier as part of the 24 hour hoops marathon that season (game was set up before the conference change and the schools didn't want to miss out on a national broadcast on ESPN), but you are correct that it didn't count in the conference standings. The lone conference matchup that year was played at Butler.
A better example of what you guys are talking about is when Butler played Georgetown as part of the Battle for Atlantis tourney in the Bahamas. Since Butler accepted the invitation prior to coming to the Big East, they allowed both teams to take part in the tournament. If Valpo has already accepted invitations to other OOC tournaments prior to moving to the MVC, if there happens to be another conference team in the tourney, no big deal.
Quote from: Grizz on May 28, 2017, 09:01:18 AM
Hey 64 is the real reason you don't want to play us is that we've beat you 9 of the last 14 we've played, ( a sweep this year would have made it 11/16) or that Lexus Williams will be our starting point guard next year.
Good luck in your new world. I'm setting the over under at 24 months on a long thread on here as to why Valpo needs a new league because the Valley sucks and its holding you down. 10 bucks. Any takers
Let's talk apples to apples. If Valpo ever gets to the point where it has won the MVC 5 of the past 6 seasons, we might be thinking about doing just that.
I empathize with your "scared to play Oakland" point. We were on a 4-game winning streak when Butler left the HL for the A-10. They refused to play us, and we got on their fans the same way. Like it or not, the reality is Butler had nothing to gain by playing us. They also had nothing to prove, regardless of the 4-game losing streak to Valpo. They were invited to join the A-10; we weren't. End of story.
Oakland has done a good job of making incremental improvement, but you have a long way to go to get to Valpo's level of accomplishment over time. You have a co-championship under your belt. Now it's time to see some conference tournament wins, NCAA appearances, and repeat conference championships. When Butler left, Valpo took the mantle and ran with it. While it was frustrating that Butler refused to play us, they were also no longer in our way to get where we wanted to go. Oakland has the same opportunity now. Just don't expect Valpo to help you get there. Those days are over.
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 28, 2017, 09:18:21 AM2) Oakwood would not help VU's image in front of the committee because its own RPI is usually not good, therefore, it does not give VU a good win against a top school.
Maybe Oakland would. Certainly not Oak Hill Academy. Maybe Oakwood would help Oak Hill? I'm getting all Oakedout. Who knows where I'll land but it won't be Oakland County.
9 out of 14, but you still have a ways to go to make it competitive all-time ;). Also, you would not sweep us this next season.
Talking smack about beating us short-handed for both games. Ok, dude.
QuoteQuote from: talksalot on May 28, 2017, 07:05:37 AMUNCW just lost two players following their coach to NC State.
Very true; but while perhaps they won't be the team they were last year, I still think they have a better chance to be a quality nonconference win come selection time than a major RPI drag. I think that tournament is a quality one especially for the young, rebuilding Crusaders. It provides enough of a challenge to be beneficial to them, without being so difficult that they have no hope of winning.Would love to hear more about this rumor about playing an ACC club. Maybe a trip to Atlanta to play the Yellow Jackets is in the offing as a connection to this Tournament? That'd be interesting: The last two NIT runners-up playing a game.
Speaking of the schedule, anyone have any idea when we might hear about the next game that's been finalized or when we might see a final nonconference schedule? I bet it'll still be a few weeks since the conference change probably took a lot of the focus away from scheduling. I just hope we don't play a bunch of crappy teams and non-D1s. Those days should be behind us. If VU wants to be a leading program in the Valley,as Commissioner Elgin stated that they made clear during the campus visit, then they need to act and schedule like it from day one.
That means, even if there is no scheduling mandate from the conference, there's a personal scheduling mandate. You don't have to fill the schedule with P5 opponents either. Games against clubs like San Francisco, St. Mary's, Princeton, Vermont, VCU, Richmond (all names I have seen mentioned on here) would do wonders. We are still doing the Santa Clara return game right? I hope we do because that would be a great opportunity for the team to bond and jell together on a road trip over Thanksgiving or something. If we are seeking Power 5 opponents, I think Stanford and Cal would be good fits to provide a tough but winnable challenge for our team.
I would also see if we can start a series with any of these schools to get some Home and Homes going. I would love to see these teams at the ARC. Even Grand Canyon and New Mexico State would be nice additions to the schedule, with Home and Homes definitely possible.
One more thing to consider: If VU and Coach Lottich are able to use this Santa Clara trip profitably and hammer out negotiations for buy games and home and homes with California teams over the next several years, we may be able to tap into that rich recruiting area and bring some Cali kids to the Midwest. This is especially true now that VU has made the move to the MVC. Also, as a Stanford alum, I'm sure Coach Lottich has some leads out in that area and can make inroads there even without games, but playing the games out there or at home against these teams will be good to get our name into the minds of those prospective recruits. Just another reason why this is such an exciting time for Crusader basketball and just how much it can mean for the university going forward if they capitalize on it properly.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 29, 2017, 10:00:28 AM
I just hope we don't play a bunch of crappy teams and non-D1s. Those days should be behind us. If VU wants to be a leading program in the Valley,as Commissioner Elgin stated that they made clear during the campus visit, then they need to act and schedule like it from day one.
Luke Gore addressed this issue in pgmado's most recent podcast. Personally, I found his comments somewhat unsettling. He spoke favorably about scheduling non D-1 opponents as dress rehearsals without consequences (my words, not his). Further, while he accurately noted that playing a non D-1 is preferable to scheduling a D-1 with a bad RPI, he also commented that he has a close relationship with the coaching staff at Chicago State and would always consider scheduling them.
So, there you go. The 2 areas that we complained about the most a year ago - scheduling non D-1's and putting Chicago State on the schedule - were apparently part of Luke's scheduling strategy.
QuoteQuote from: wh on May 29, 2017, 10:49:02 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on May 29, 2017, 10:00:28 AMQuoteI just hope we don't play a bunch of crappy teams and non-D1s. Those days should be behind us. If VU wants to be a leading program in the Valley,as Commissioner Elgin stated that they made clear during the campus visit, then they need to act and schedule like it from day one.
Luke Gore addressed this issue in pgmado's most recent podcast. Personally, I found his comments somewhat unsettling. He spoke favorably about scheduling non D-1 opponents as dress rehearsals without consequences (my words, not his). Further, while he accurately noted that playing a non D-1 is preferable to scheduling a D-1 with a bad RPI, he noted that he has a close relationship with the coaching staff at Chicago State and would always consider scheduling them. So, there you go. The 2 areas that we complained about the most a year ago - scheduling non D-1's and putting Chicago State on the schedule - were apparently part of Luke's scheduling strategy.
Fortunately Luke doesn't make those decisions ML does. Let's just hope he doesn't buy into the whole "They will tell their grandkids about the time they played at Valpo" We need to be beyond that now. No more IU-Kokomo, No more PNW, No more Chicago State. Nobody's excited about those games not even the players. Nobody wants to see that and nobody wants to play that game.
The only thing that should matter is preparing adequately for the MVC slate. I don't think it's any secret that the way Northern Iowa schedules has a lot to do with their success in conference and in the NCAA Tournament. Take out the trash with respect to the schedule and please don't waste home games on games that won't even draw 2000 people. Those OOC home games are precious valuable commodities. You can grouse and complain about fan support all you want, but when you put D2 schools and Chicago State on the schedule instead of even semi-decent opponents, you forfeit your right to complain.
The city of Valparaiso shows you what happens when you put your best foot forward and schedule a big game. You get rewarded with 3000-4000+. This move to the MVC has built up a great deal of goodwill and I expect a substantial attendance increase at the ARC for the conference games, but if you want that for the whole season, you need to schedule well. Play whoever you want for exhibition matches. Schedule as many of them as you can. But leave the regular season for challenging, but winnable games, and the occasional buy game should the budget need a little extra.
Is it true that, for rating purposes, we would be better off scheduling a non D-1 school that would not count in calculating our RPI vs. playing a very low rated D-1 school that hurts our RPI? If so, maybe that is why Luke said what he did regarding scheduling.
If we need a non-DI team, I bet the Washington Generals will agree to come and play at the ARC.
Quote from: valpo64 on May 29, 2017, 12:36:02 PM
Is it true that, for rating purposes, we would be better off scheduling a non D-1 school that would not count in calculating our RPI vs. playing a very low rated D-1 school that hurts our RPI? If so, maybe that is why Luke said what he did regarding scheduling.
If you absolutely cannot get a mid major with a decent RPI to come to the ARC under any circumstances, and despite your very best efforts you still need home games, and the clock has run out, then yes, it would be better to play a D-2 or D-3 than schedule a home game against a team with a bad RPI. Unfortunately, I see examples every year of schools who publish their final schedule long before they ever need to loaded with non D-1's and crap D-1 home game opponents. Those schedules have lazy, mail-it-in, and easy-win coaching agendas written all over them. I'm not saying that is true of Valpo. What I am saying is that it makes it more difficult for those programs who do take scheduling seriously, because so many other programs that could be candidates for a decent home and home have already closed the door and moved on. People are people. Coaching staffs have their share of laggards and losers just like any other profession out there.
Looks like Valpo will be playing an away game at SIUE (Southern Illinois University Edwardsville) next season. SIUE Cougars are an OVC school. They are a relatively new D1 program. They made the jump to D1 in 2008. Relatively low travel opponent.
The SIUE Cougars were pretty brutal last year with a 6-24 (Conf: 1-15). They were a pretty young team last year, so maybe you could expect some growth next season. Looks like they have 4 JUCO kids coming in next year and 2 freshman.
If I had to guess this 1-for-1 (I'm assuming its a standard 1-for-1) is about the 2018-2019 more then next years team. Best to get a home game in 2018-2019 which we are all projecting to be a better year then next year and you hope SIUE grows and is a better team by 2018-2019 and don't drag our RPI down or SOS down for our Tourney resume.
Not sure what I think of this match-up for our RPI and SOS. I hope they are a stronger team the next few years. Should be an interesting game. I don't think we've ever played them. A more intriguing match up then Chicago State.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/870990149714411523
https://twitter.com/jonathanshank/status/870792918034001920
I cannot say that I am really thrilled that Valpo is scheduling a road game (even if it is part of a 1 for 1) with a team whose RPI in 2016-2017 is 332. At best, this game harms Valpo's RPI and in a worst case scenario there is a lot more to lose. This is always the argument for a team from a Power 6 conference not to come to Valpo, but I would argue that the downside of Valpo losing a game at a school like SIUE is far worse. I can understand if this is a one time thing (to help a friend of the program who is struggling to build their own program), but I would not want to see any more sub 300 (or even 250) games.
Nobody does VU any favors when it comes to scheduling. Why are we constantly acting like the patron Saint of nobody schools? Sure it's better than Chicago State; but it's still not the caliber of game we should be looking to take; especially right now when there's still time to add some quality opponents. This is not an example of scheduling like a team that wants to be in the at large conversation come selection Sunday. Games like this will not impress our new conference mates, and will make it harder to get P5 home and homes.Why should they come play road games at Valpo when Valpo is a program willing to take sub 300 RPI road games? I really thought we were going to move beyond this kind of game with our move to the Valley especially when the margin of error for mid majors is so thin and we need every opportunity we can get to bolster our resume
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/871168683091079169
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/871167151830441985
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 03, 2017, 07:11:53 PM
Nobody does VU any favors when it comes to scheduling. Why are we constantly acting like the patron Saint of nobody schools? Sure it's better than Chicago State; but it's still not the caliber of game we should be looking to take; especially right now when there's still time to add some quality opponents. This is not an example of scheduling like a team that wants to be in the at large conversation come selection Sunday. Games like this will not impress our new conference mates, and will make it harder to get P5 home and homes.Why should they come play road games at Valpo when Valpo is a program willing to take sub 300 RPI road games? I really thought we were going to move beyond this kind of game with our move to the Valley especially when the margin of error for mid majors is so thin and we need every opportunity we can get to bolster our resume
Yeah, lets load our schedule with unwinnable games and kill the excitement of a young teams before it gets going.
This is not directed at you, but rather an overall tone I'm hearing on the forum. We have to start somewhere guys, winnable games in the 250-300 RPI range are a must. This is precisely what Lottich was talking about on the podcast. We have to schedule smart KNOWING this is NOT an at large team next season.
Sorry to be so blunt, but wowza.
QuoteQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 03, 2017, 08:45:19 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on June 03, 2017, 07:11:53 PMNobody does VU any favors when it comes to scheduling. Why are we constantly acting like the patron Saint of nobody schools? Sure it's better than Chicago State; but it's still not the caliber of game we should be looking to take; especially right now when there's still time to add some quality opponents. This is not an example of scheduling like a team that wants to be in the at large conversation come selection Sunday. Games like this will not impress our new conference mates, and will make it harder to get P5 home and homes.Why should they come play road games at Valpo when Valpo is a program willing to take sub 300 RPI road games? I really thought we were going to move beyond this kind of game with our move to the Valley especially when the margin of error for mid majors is so thin and we need every opportunity we can get to bolster our resume
Yeah, lets load our schedule with unwinnable games and kill the excitement of a young teams before it gets going. This is not directed at you, but rather an overall tone I'm hearing on the forum. We have to start somewhere guys, winnable games in the 250-300 RPI range are a must. This is precisely what Lottich was talking about on the podcast. We have to schedule smart KNOWING this is NOT an at large team next season. Sorry to be so blunt, but wowza.
That's not what i'm after at all. Except for one anomaly in 2013-2014 Valpo has sat comfortably in the top 100 in RPI each year since 2010 never falling outside the top 90. All I'm asking is that Valpo consistently schedule within the 50-130 range which provides the team with challenging but winnable games that will actually make them attractive to some tournament committee even if that's not the NCAA. Valpo may endure some growing pains but they shouldn't slip to the point where they need to take this level of road game. Valpo should be done with sub 250 RPI games in all circumstances. They offer no value to a top mid major.
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 03, 2017, 12:15:00 PM
I cannot say that I am really thrilled that Valpo is scheduling a road game (even if it is part of a 1 for 1) with a team whose RPI in 2016-2017 is 332. At best, this game harms Valpo's RPI and in a worst case scenario there is a lot more to lose. This is always the argument for a team from a Power 6 conference not to come to Valpo, but I would argue that the downside of Valpo losing a game at a school like SIUE is far worse. I can understand if this is a one time thing (to help a friend of the program who is struggling to build their own program), but I would not want to see any more sub 300 (or even 250) games.
If Valpo loses to SIUE, they don't have much business advancing in the postseason anyways. Valpo has a number of hard games next year, so it's critical to fill the rest of the schedule with wins. Having 10 OOC games that are top 150 RPI would be counterproductive.
Wanted to play in the St Louis area. We look to play some games in areas where there are a large number of Valpo alumni and friends. Our overall non-conference schedule is good.
My first thought on SIUE was also- Why? But on second thought maybe it can be justified from several angles. No we are not in the at-large picture for 17-18 and road wins can be neutral or modestly helpful even against weaker teams. So we play a probable poor RPI team at Edwardsville in 17-18 then host them in 18-19 with the hope they will be much improved.
Best case- we help a struggling program, get a confidence building win on the road, then cash in two years hence with an appearance at the ARC of a top 150 program. :o OK! I'll just stick to the sunny side and ignore the worst case for now. ::)
Quote from: ml on June 03, 2017, 10:36:58 PM
Wanted to play in the St Louis area. We look to play some games in areas where there are a large number of Valpo alumni and friends. Our overall non-conference schedule is good.
With all due respect, is playing a road game in Edwardsville, IL necessary to attract Valpo alumni and friends when Valpo will be playing in St. Louis in the Missouri Valley Conference tournament each year going forward? Additionally, while I understand that scheduling is a challenge, SLU would be a much more convenient place to attract and entertain alumni and friends than Edwardsville, IL.
I understand that there can be isolated cases in which Valpo schedules like this and I believe that Valpo has generally done a good job of scheduling in recent years. I just would not want to see both SIUE and Chicago State on the schedule this season.
I'll take a game against SIUE this season because we still have so many unknowns about the transfers, and who will be improved from the returnees. Will Sorolla or Smits be stronger inside in year 2 for both? Will players like Burton, Golder, Evelyn, and a few others be ready for conference play, or do we need this game to get some of the cobwebs out?
I get that so many of you are caught up in RPI numbers like they are the Dow Jones Industrial Average, but don't forget you don't want to schedule all 50-100 RPI games when your roster has so many question marks that need answers. We haven't seen Burton, Evelyn, Golder, Hazen, or anyone on the roster play together yet. Let's back off the ledge, and quit feeling like we're letting the conference down before we've played a game. We need to see the roster play games, not freak out about the RPI numbers in June that don't mean anything until games are played.
As I mentioned above, I am fine with this as an exception...but I would expect at least 50% of non-conference games to be against teams with RPI of 100 or better. And I agree that the RPI is not the perfect measure (in fact I welcome other measures). But regardless of the measure, if Valpo's goal to to have the highest possible performance measure as it correlates highly with getting into the NCAA (or if not the NCAA, the NIT), then Valpo needs to schedule with that goal always in mind.
My last post had more to do with ml's justifications for playing SIUE. The arguments for playing at SIUE were pretty weak since Edwardsville is quite a distance from the St. Louis suburbs where more alumni would live and is not a city that people would see value going to. Furthermore, St. Louis would seem to have plenty of future Valpo events given the location of the MVC tournament. If you said that Valpo was playing someone in downtown Chicago, Milwaukee, Indianapolis or even St. Louis, the argument would be much more valid.
Quote from: ml on June 03, 2017, 10:36:58 PM
Wanted to play in the St Louis area. We look to play some games in areas where there are a large number of Valpo alumni and friends. Our overall non-conference schedule is good.
Thanks for the explanation, ml. While we have your attention, I recently raised the issue about severely limited parking availability in proximity to the ARC. Following is a previous post that explains the parking dilemma in great detail and provides support for a direct correlation between declining parking availability and declining attendance. I kindly ask that you read them in some detail before responding.
I have 2 questions. First, Does the University Administration understand and appreciate the magnitude of this problem. I have to ask that because much of the problem is self-inflicted, knowing the impact it would have on parking availability. Secondly, IF it's perceived as a problem in need of a solution, are any plans in the works to remedy the situation?
Thanks for your time!
"Inexplicably, over the past 3-4 years the university has eliminated every general parking area and all on-street parking in every direction surrounding the ARC, rendering it the most difficult-to-access sports venue I personally have ever encountered - anywhere, any sport, any level.
West:
• The new sorority row has eliminated the vacant lots that provided dozens of parking spots for basketball attendees for many years.
• "No parking" signs were placed on Union Street when the sororities were finished, eliminating numerous parking spots accessed by basketball attendees for generations.
• Parking on the north side of Monroe was eliminated in the middle of this year's bb season, wiping out a block-long area of desperately needed public parking for basketball games.
• As a result of these changes, parking on the south side of Monroe and both sides of Brown is now jammed with cars day and night, eliminating even more parking availability for basketball attendees.
North:
• The former "tennis court" parking lot was eliminated when the track was built, eliminating dozens of parking spots.
East:
• 4 or 5 years ago parking on both sides of McIntyre Court was designated "resident parking only (by permit), eliminating numerous parking spots.
• The parking area in front of the old bookstore has been designated handicap only. By the way, it is marked by an unlighted temporary ground-level sign, and is a constant source of confusion for people desperately searching for general parking. It is also the only area anywhere close to the ARC designated for handicap parking and is always jam packed, meaning some number of handicap vehicles are out of luck.
• The only remaining available parking to the east are the parking lots adjacent to the softball field, a quarter to a half mile away.
South:
• The parking lot across the street from the ARC used to provide prime general parking for early arrivers, but no longer. The first 2 rows have been roped off and designated as "Gold Parking" only, a premium add-on option for season ticket holders. The rest of the lot is jammed before 6p with adjacent dorm parkers, sorority parkers, and who knows who else. I can personally attest to this, as I intentionally came at 6p at the last 2 home games, and was told by a university police officer at the entrance to the lot that it was full. By the way, a police car is always there with lights flashing. This adds to the confusion as people looking for parking naturally gravitate to the flashing lights, thinking the cop is there to direct them in, only to be shooed away. As for the new restricted rows - often no more than half full.
So where are the general admission and regular season ticket holders and casual attendees expected to park? Not the old hospital parking garage. That's closed and the entrances barricaded. That leaves the parking area to the immediate south of the garage and a limited number of spots across the street to the south. Of course, neither of those lots are close to the ARC, just like the lots adjacent to the softball field are no where close.
Oh, how about the parking next to the building on the west and north sides. All reserved exclusively for Athletic Department staff, university president and trustees, high dollar donors, and players.
To put this in perspective, picture your local Walmart with the best parking spots up against the building reserved for corporate officials who almost never use them and every employee from the store manager down to the janitor. Picture the store parking lot full of cars from adjacent apartment buildings that don't have their own parking. Picture a security guard at the entrance of the "Walmart" parking lot, directing cars to parking lots belonging to other businesses from 1-4 blocks away.
Then picture a group of people with strong ties to that particular Walmart from days gone by wondering on a message board why the customer base has fallen so dramatically in recent times, when the store's products are as good or better than they've ever been. And then proposing solutions like "they need to modernize the inside of the building" or "they need to do a better job of marketing," or "they need to make the building bigger" or "they shouldn't make the building bigger until more customers start showing up."
Thus is the 800 pound gorilla no one is talking about. What is perceived as an outdated college basketball venue in need of updating is more accurately a completely landlocked, outdated college basketball venue in desperate need of easy-access parking that the university has either eliminated or repurposed for other needs."
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 04, 2017, 07:57:10 AMAdditionally, while I understand that scheduling is a challenge, SLU would be a much more convenient place to attract and entertain alumni and friends than Edwardsville, IL.
I have a feeling that Valpo asked SLU for a game in St Louis and was told "no." Between SLU not wanting to lose at home (Valpo would likely present a real challenge and SLU needs wins too) and the situation with Keith Carter, the scheduling of a game was not in the cards.
bbts - Good point about the Keith Carter situation. I totally forgot about that and can see that scheduling with SLU is highly unlikely for the near future.
wh - Without copying your long post, you provided tremendous detail justifying that the parking situation needs to be addressed quickly. All I would add is that a solution should not involve shuttling people i from remote lots. For a facility that only holds 5000 people, you need a parking solution with easy walking to the stadium. Creating a lot (at the old hospital space?) with a small parking fee ($5?) was suggested in some previous posts (by wh, if I remember correctly) and seems like a very reasonable and cost effective solution.
The SIUE game was scheduled well before the opportunity for membership in the MVC. Being in St Louis annually for Arch Madness is a significant benefit for us as members of the Valley.
We have a list of schools every year we would like to schedule, the question every year is do they want to play us. Many years the answer is no, they don't. I believe you will find that our non-conference schedules the past 5 years or so are similar to other quality mid-majors.
The parking situation has gotten more difficult since the construction of the track. We understand that it needs to be addressed and have begun reviewing it and looking for answers that can be implemented for the coming season. Some solutions that seem simple are complicated by city and IDEM regulations and rules regarding storm water management. We need to be good neighbors. The change on McIntyre was driven by the inability for two way traffic on game nights when parked cars filled both sides. Many patrons have been clear that parking has become a frustration, we are looking for ways to address these frustrations.
This is how the 2017-2018 Schedule looks to be coming together with a little guessing on my part:
-(Home) "Tune-up" game vs a D2 opponent (guess on my part)
-(Home) (maybe another "tune-up" game vs Low Major opponent or D2 school like IU-Kokomo, Trinity (IL), Bethel, or Aurora)
-(Away) SIUE Nov. 15 (guessing RPI: 250-351)
-*(Possible Away Game) Santa Clara* (I believe we have an obligation to give them a return game. Maybe it gets pushed out another year. But I'm assuming if we head out to Santa Clara we'll be playing more then one game out West). It just seems like a west coast trip would be tough to pull of this year, but we'll see I guess.
-(Home) IUPUI/Fort Wayne/(against some region low-mid major) - maybe more likely against IUPUI since it's "our turn" to play at IPFW next but it sounds like we are pretty stacked & full with Non-Conf Away games, so maybe IUPUI is more likely? Total guess on my part. Or maybe it turns out to be a pretty solid opponent? We got Iona to come to the ARC a few years ago. Quality opponents are probably easier to schedule now that AP and that senior class has graduated.
-Rumored to be in the Savannah Invitational Tournament
(Complicated b/c Loyola is also suppose to play in it, but the NCAA has granted exceptions in the past. Ex: There have been exceptions for swiftly executed conference realignment. Villanova and Xavier were both in 2013 Battle4Atlantis. And of course the year before, Butler and Xavier played a non-conference game both as members of the A10. But we all know the NCAA tends to favor policy towards the larger schools and sticks the middle finger to Mid-Majors like Valpo. Other participants include: UNC-W (a shell of itself from last year), and Kent State who was solid last year in MAC with 22-14 (10-8) and got hot and won their conf tourney. Kent State didn't graduate anyone.
-(Home) Utah State TBD (MVC/MW Challenge)
-(Away) Northwestern (Dec. 7) All-State Arena
-(Away) Ball State (Dec. 9)
-(Away) Purdue (Dec. 14)
-(Home) - Mystery Team (If I had to guess a solid Low-Mid Major Program)
-(Home) Game vs a low major like Chicago State, Lord help me if we need to watch Valpo play them again.
Confirmed Non-Conference Opponents: Northwestern, Purdue, Ball State, SIUE, Utah State, Santa Clara* (we owe them a game but maybe its not happening next season?)
I trust the Coach Gore and the Athletics Department to do the best scheduling possible. Scheduling is extremely difficult for Mid-Majors and that won't change now that we're in the MVC. I still think we are occasionally going to have to play the sub 300 RPI (or even 250) games every year on occasion... if the MVC reaches A10 "status" consistently year in and year out then maybe that changes.
-I'm assuming Valpo will need to have at 6-8 homes games in OOC to break-even and pay the bills (you know 1 & probably 2 of those games will be against D2 opponents at home and you can count on at least 1 low major like Chicago State being scheduled at the ARC. Its tough to get quality opponents at the ARC consistently every year...)
-I'm guessing we'll play around 12-15 Non-Conference games
-There was a rumor that we potentially had a game against an ACC team in the works but I have heard anything about that for a while, so I'm assuming it won't be happening (at least not next season).
QuoteQuote from: VU2014 on June 04, 2017, 04:37:28 PM
This is how the 2017-2018 Schedule looks to be coming together with a little guessing on my part:
-(Home) "Tune-up" game vs a D2 opponent (guess on my part)
-(Home) (maybe another "tune-up" game vs Low Major opponent or D2 school like IU-Kokomo, Trinity (IL), Bethel, or Aurora)
-(Away) SIUE Nov. 15 (guessing RPI: 250-351)
-*(Possible Away Game) Santa Clara* (I believe we have an obligation to give them a return game. Maybe it gets pushed out another year. But I'm assuming if we head out to Santa Clara we'll be playing more then one game out West). It just seems like a west coast trip would be tough to pull of this year, but we'll see I guess.
-(Home) IUPUI/Fort Wayne/(against some region low-mid major) - maybe more likely against IUPUI since it's "our turn" to play at IPFW next but it sounds like we are pretty stacked & full with Non-Conf Away games, so maybe IUPUI is more likely? Total guess on my part. Or maybe it turns out to be a pretty solid opponent? We got Iona to come to the ARC a few years ago. Quality opponents are probably easier to schedule now that AP and that senior class has graduated.
-Rumored to be in the Savannah Invitational Tournament
(Complicated b/c Loyola is also suppose to play in it, but the NCAA has granted exceptions in the past. Ex: There have been exceptions for swiftly executed conference realignment. Villanova and Xavier were both in 2013 Battle4Atlantis. And of course the year before, Butler and Xavier played a non-conference game both as members of the A10. But we all know the NCAA tends to favor policy towards the larger schools and sticks the middle finger to Mid-Majors like Valpo. Other participants include: UNC-W (a shell of itself from last year), and Kent State who was solid last year in MAC with 22-14 (10-8) and got hot and won their conf tourney. Kent State didn't graduate anyone.
-(Home) Utah State TBD (MVC/MW Challenge)
-(Away) Northwestern (Dec. 7) All-State Arena
-(Away) Ball State (Dec. 9)
-(Away) Purdue (Dec. 14)
-(Home) - Mystery Team (If I had to guess a solid Low-Mid Major Program)
-(Home) Game vs a low major like Chicago State, Lord help me if we need to watch Valpo play them again.
Confirmed Non-Conference Opponents: Northwestern, Purdue, Ball State, SIUE, Utah State, Santa Clara* (we owe them a game but maybe its not happening next season?)
I trust the Coach Gore and the Athletics Department to do the best scheduling possible. Scheduling is extremely difficult for Mid-Majors and that won't change now that we're in the MVC. I still think we are occasionally going to have to play the sub 300 RPI (or even 250) games every year on occasion... if the MVC reaches A10 "status" consistently year in and year out then maybe that changes.
-I'm assuming Valpo will need to have at 6-8 homes games in OOC to break-even and pay the bills (you know 1 & probably 2 of those games will be against D2 opponents at home and you can count on at least 1 low major like Chicago State being scheduled at the ARC. Its tough to get quality opponents at the ARC consistently every year...)
-I'm guessing we'll play around 12-15 Non-Conference games
-There was a rumor that we potentially had a game against an ACC team in the works but I have heard anything about that for a while, so I'm assuming it won't be happening (at least not next season).
I sure hope the schedule doesn't have that many 250-300RPI and D2 teams That's just too much fluff. IPFW and IUPUI are acceptable as last resort teams; but 3-4 "tune up" games against sub-250 RPI or D2 competition is just too much. We'd run the risk of "Evansvilling" our conference mates. Not a good way to ingratiate ourselves to the MVC. Love the tournament and all of the confirmed games so far (except Edwardsville ). The more games we can get that are like those the better
I actually don't think 1 "tune-up" game against a D2 schools is that bad. D2 opponents don't calculate into a team RPI. I don't particularly like watching D2 schools playing at the ARC but I understand the "value" they provide. Valpo needs home games and a lot of high-major/good mid-major schools refuse to play Good-Mids like Valpo because they don't want to risk a loss.
The MVC is a nice step up for Valpo but I don't think we're suddenly going to see a major benefit in Non-Conf scheduling. I think it helps a little but I think there is still going to be a significant challenge getting good A10 level opponents into the ARC. The Rhode Island 1-for-1 was an AMAZING get in scheduling but I don't think high level A10 opponents like URI will become the norm. I hope I'm wrong, but maybe I'm being pessimistic.
The Average MVC school typically plays 45% of their Games as true home in OOC, better then the HL at 35%, but compared to A10 schools that play 61%, but the P5/BE played 88.6%!!! (that is ridiculous!) of all their games either at home or on a neutral site!!
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/870324938934300673
https://www.facebook.com/enthusiadams/posts/1918768828398001:0
I HIGHLY encourage everyone to read Mark Adam's article. I'll share a small part of the data he found but read the whole thing (its well worth your time).
"scheduling is the next challenge to overcome as a non P5/BE member. During the 2016-17 season OOC schedule, the P5/BE played 88.6% of all their games either at home or on a neutral site. In the other 11.4% of their OOC games they typically played each other which resulted in low risk games. See scheduling evaluation results below:
2016-17 Season P5/BE OOC Scheduling information:
• ACC- 87.3% Home/Neutral, 63.5% at home
• Big Ten- 88.5% Home/Neutral, 68.2% Home
• Big 12- 90.3% Home/Neutral, 64.5% Home
• Big East- 86.9% Home/Neutral, 60.7% Home
• SEC- 89.3% Home/Neutral, 58.5% Home
• PAC 12- 89.7% Home/Neutral, 67.2% Home
A few other conferences by comparison:
• American- 80.7% Home/Neutral, 64.4% Home
• A-10- 76.2% Home/Neutral, 61.6% Home
• MAC- 63.4% Home/Neutral, 45.5% HOME
• C-USA- 60% Home/Neutral, 45.2% Home, 40% Away
Other conferences and typical % of home games during OOC schedule:
• MVC- 45%
• Horizon- 35%
• Sun Belt- 32%
• SWAC- 5.5%
P5/BE TOTAL: 88.6% HOME/NEUTRAL, 64.0% HOME AND ONLY 11.4% AWAY!!!"
Quote from: wh on June 04, 2017, 11:06:45 AMOh, how about the parking next to the building on the west and north sides. All reserved exclusively for Athletic Department staff, university president and trustees, high dollar donors, and players.
WH, this is not wholly true - Season ticket holders can purchase access to this area, if they choose. For many of us, it is well worth the money.
Quote from: ml on June 04, 2017, 03:30:42 PMMany patrons have been clear that parking has become a frustration, we are looking for ways to address these frustrations.
This parking issue is mammoth for the casual fans attendance. Maybe you can ignore or have ignored my frustration and gotten away with it, but for our fresh MVC opponents their first impressions could be critical for their returns. The clock is ticking.
This is the latest version of Google Maps and the Valpo campus showing a completed sorority complex and an almost completed STEP building.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Moore+Roderick+G/@41.4667551,-87.0491566,353m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x88119a6abcae3cdb:0x66489861033cba18!2sValparaiso+University!8m2!3d41.4639394!4d-87.0438894!3m4!1s0x0:0x849477d73784bfa6!8m2!3d41.4636105!4d-87.0476604
I zeroed in on the area around the ARC and more specifically the Porter Hospital property. The satellite image shows a full-size intramural soccer field laid out going east and west and a smaller e-w flag football grid just to the south of that soccer pitch. BTW, there are 2 IM FB grids and 1 IM soccer field over at East Gate as well.
If you run a line directly north from the intersection of Monroe and University to Laporte Avenue and do a curb cut there for entry and egress you would have space between that line and the Lebien Hall Annex parking lot to accommodate as many as a couple hundred cars on a natural, crushed stone base. That line crosses the soccer field at about 1/3 of the east portion of the field, meaning that portion would be lost. BUT, if you look to the west side of the marked field there is ample room to relocate the soccer field so that the playing surface remains full size. The resulting lot would be about the size of the lot across Union or slightly bigger based on eyeballing the satellite image. And while at it, perhaps 20 more spaces could be developed for the Labien Annex lot as well.
I fully understand that municipal permits have to be pulled and that drainage must be taken into account and all that. However, from my distant perspective, building a natural crushed stone parking surface that is water permeable might lessen the need to go into full construction mode for this project. And from a good neighbor perspective, The construction of such a space would certainly take a lot of pressure off neighboring streets, businesses, and private properties on the 15 or so occasions when there is an MBB game. And I would hope that the status of this lot being for occasional use only would also make it a plausible solution in the eyes of the town fathers.
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 05, 2017, 09:21:27 AM
This is the latest version of Google Maps and the Valpo campus showing a completed sorority complex and an almost completed STEP building.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Moore+Roderick+G/@41.4667551,-87.0491566,353m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x88119a6abcae3cdb:0x66489861033cba18!2sValparaiso+University!8m2!3d41.4639394!4d-87.0438894!3m4!1s0x0:0x849477d73784bfa6!8m2!3d41.4636105!4d-87.0476604
I zeroed in on the area around the ARC and more specifically the Porter Hospital property. The satellite image shows a full-size intramural soccer field laid out going east and west and a smaller e-w flag football grid just to the south of that soccer pitch. BTW, there are 2 IM FB grids and 1 IM soccer field over at East Gate as well.
If you run a line directly north from the intersection of Monroe and University to Laporte Avenue and do a curb cut there for entry and egress you would have space between that line and the Lebien Hall Annex parking lot to accommodate as many as a couple hundred cars on a natural, crushed stone base. That line crosses the soccer field at about 1/3 of the east portion of the field, meaning that portion would be lost. BUT, if you look to the west side of the marked field there is ample room to relocate the soccer field so that the playing surface remains full size. The resulting lot would be about the size of the lot across Union or slightly bigger based on eyeballing the satellite image. And while at it, perhaps 20 more spaces could be developed for the Labien Annex lot as well.
I fully understand that municipal permits have to be pulled and that drainage must be taken into account and all that. However, from my distant perspective, building a natural crushed stone parking surface that is water permeable might lessen the need to go into full construction mode for this project. And from a good neighbor perspective, The construction of such a space would certainly take a lot of pressure off neighboring streets, businesses, and private properties on the 15 or so occasions when there is an MBB game. And I would hope that the status of this lot being for occasional use only would also make it a plausible solution in the eyes of the town fathers.
Here is the problem as I see it. Look at the campus and the existing parking lots. They are FULL. Granted some are faculty who wouldn't be parked there in a game night but adding parking for thousands of non-school related folks is going to continue to be a huge issue unless a sizable parking garage is added. There are plans for one one the Union parking lot but either repair the hospital one or add one on the lot next to it. That is a 150 yard walk which is not unusual for any basketball or athletic facility.
On a related schedule note, I've heard some rumors that we are coming to the end of the Ball State contract after this year. If true, we should definitely make sure to re-up that. With the addition of Brachen Hazen, BSU has added two SEC transfers in the past two weeks (K.J. Watson from Missouri being the other), added former IU commit Zach Gunn earlier this spring, to ago along with incoming 3.5-star PG Ishmael El-Amin (son of former UConn legend Khalid El-Amin). All this added to an already-pretty-stocked roster that returns four starters from a 21-win team last year. Not a lot of people are talking about them, but the Cardinals are setting up to be very, very good for the foreseeable future -- let's hope Valpo is able to keep this series on the books and get some the long-awaited RPI upside for both teams after this was an RPI-imperiling matchup for VU a number of years.
ml posted this talking about the 2014-2015 scheduling. Thought it was pretty interesting.
Wonder how much being in the MVC will help with scheduling in OOC.
We've had pretty good Non-Conf scheduling the last few years. I assume it will still be an up hill battle.
Quote from: ml on September 25, 2014, 09:56:52 PM
Understand everyone's frustrations with this year's home schedule. We also would have preferred a different home schedule. Scheduling requires two teams that want to play. We received many "not interested"s this year. We eventually reached a point in time where we needed to finish the schedule and we needed it to have more than 11 home games.
Scheduling basketball games has changed significantly over the past 5 years. The BCS schools play each other more, play each other more on neutral courts, and have become more selective in what mid-majors they play. Mid-majors and low-majors have become more selective as the pressure to win sooner moves to the lower RPI conferences. Guarantees have gotten to the point where paying schools is financially unfeasible for schools outside the BCS. ESPN controls many of the early season tournaments. Many of their tournaments are already scheduled out two or more years. Outside promoters now require the payment of high guarantees to participate in their early season tournaments.
We are working now on ideas for developing a better schedule for next season. This has been a topic of conversation with the Horizon League staff and with all of the Horizon League coaches as a group.
Can't we get some MAC home and home games beyond Ball State? That used to be our typical OOC level game.
Maybe we got sick of Ohio interstates after adding NKU to the Horizon and need a break. Noow that I think of it, NIU and the Michigans all have crappy RPIs so never mind.
Quote from: crusadermoe on June 06, 2017, 11:27:29 AM
Can't we get some MAC home and home games beyond Ball State? That used to be our typical OOC level game.
Maybe we got sick of Ohio interstates after adding NKU to the Horizon and need a break. Noow that I think of it, NIU and the Michigans all have crappy RPIs so never mind.
I do think Akron Ohio University Buffalo and Toledo could be worthy adds to the schedule. I would mention Kent State but Valpo is already rumored to be playing them. I see some potential in Western Michigan and Eastern Michigan as well ,especially Western.
We used to play Western pretty regularly in the 70s and 80s. In fact, the first game in the history of the ARC back in 1984 was a loss to WMU. (Everyone remembers the Dedication Game against ND that year, but that was actually the third or fourth home game of the season).
Smart move by the MW Presidents. I hope MVC president do the same and try and do everything possible to help it's teams (or at the Top Contenders every year) get the best Non-Conference game possible.
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/872464631029280768
http://www.mwcconnection.com/2017/6/7/15754320/mountain-west-presidents-are-looking-to-beef-up-non-conference-basketball-schedules
Mountain West presidents are looking to beef up non-conference basketball schedules
Weak schedules have held the MWC back in recent years.
by Eli Boettger@boettger_eli Jun 7, 2017, 7:45am PDT
.........
"To improve the schedules, the board of directors concluded that they will do the following:
-Use metrics to better assemble non-conference schedules
-Be given assistance in balancing games that are played at home or on the road
-Athletic directors will work with coaches to piece together schedules that better resemble that of the MWC football programs"
............
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/872491674391396352
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/872491887806078977
https://twitter.com/ValpoU/status/872493318143438848
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/872491674391396352
Wonder what caliber of opponents we'll have coming to the ARC next season?
Purdue, Northwestern, Ball State are good away game OOC opponents, and the MVC/MW Challenge land us an interesting opponent at home.
-(Away) SIUE (Nov. 15)
-*(Away) Santa Clara TBD* (maybe there is a return game)
-(Home) Utah State (Nov. 28) (MVC/MW Challenge)
-(Away) Northwestern (Dec. 7) All-State Arena
-(Away) Ball State (Dec. 9)
-(Away) Purdue (Dec. 14)
Aggie men's hoops to play at Valparaiso
By Shawn Harrison sports editor 9 hrs ago
http://news.hjnews.com/allaccess/aggie-men-s-hoops-to-play-at-valparaiso/article_21c578f4-c64d-5bcd-b508-f18145b79844.html
Quote from: wh on June 08, 2017, 07:06:24 AM
Aggie men's hoops to play at Valparaiso
By Shawn Harrison sports editor 9 hrs ago
http://news.hjnews.com/allaccess/aggie-men-s-hoops-to-play-at-valparaiso/article_21c578f4-c64d-5bcd-b508-f18145b79844.html
Wow! This could be a really tough matchup. They are big and experienced.
Quote from: vu72 on June 08, 2017, 08:26:51 AM
Quote from: wh on June 08, 2017, 07:06:24 AM
Aggie men's hoops to play at Valparaiso
By Shawn Harrison sports editor 9 hrs ago
http://news.hjnews.com/allaccess/aggie-men-s-hoops-to-play-at-valparaiso/article_21c578f4-c64d-5bcd-b508-f18145b79844.html
Wow! This could be a really tough matchup. They are big and experienced.
I liked this quote from the USU coach:
"We are excited to play another program that has a proud basketball tradition, similar to our tradition," Aggie head coach Tim Duryea said in a release. "It has been a program that has national respect among coaches and is looked at, in the coaching profession, as a program that does things the right way."
Time to step back and celebrate the scheduling we have now. We have some tough games where we are the clear underdog, but capable of winning.
Not a whiplash schedule of Duke or something, then Chicago State, then a Top 20 team, then an RPI #330 team. Not blaming anyone just glad we have managed to schedule well last season and for this coming year
UNI just released their Non-Conference Schedule. A very strong Non-Conference.
How the heck did they manage to get a home game with Xavier!? We would kill to have Big East schools come play at the ARC.
https://twitter.com/UNImbb/status/873162765963108352
Quote from: VU2014 on June 09, 2017, 10:27:58 AM
UNI just released their Non-Conference Schedule. A very strong Non-Conference.
How the heck did they manage to get a home game with Xavier!? We would kill to have Big East schools come play at the ARC.
https://twitter.com/UNImbb/status/873162765963108352
Now that we're in the Valley too that just might start happening Not saying it's likely but at least we've got a shot at seeing it now if we establish ourselves as a consistent top contender in the conference. Even Indiana State got Butler to play them in Terre Haute so I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see it happen at all.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 09, 2017, 12:58:19 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 09, 2017, 10:27:58 AM
UNI just released their Non-Conference Schedule. A very strong Non-Conference.
How the heck did they manage to get a home game with Xavier!? We would kill to have Big East schools come play at the ARC.
https://twitter.com/UNImbb/status/873162765963108352
Now that we're in the Valley too that just might start happening Not saying it's likely but at least we've got a shot at seeing it now if we establish ourselves as a consistent top contender in the conference. Even Indiana State got Butler to play them in Terre Haute so I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see it happen at all.
There appears to be a line that P5 conferences use to schedule, amongst a myriad of other reasons:
A) those considered to be a bad loss for a P5 team (VU pre 1995?)
B) those on the cusp of a bad loss for a P5 team (VU 1995-______)
C) those that enhance OOC RPI if they win. VU today is trending toward this category OR barely has reached this line.
It has taken us so long to reach Option C because we have played in sub par conferences for much of our existence in D1, right?
Just my two cents. Is welcome others' opinions...
This may be off topic or already discussed.
When the Valley was at the top or near the top of mid-major conferences, why didn't their leadership go get Butler? Could they have gotten the Bulldogs? I think Butler in the MVC was a better fit than Butler in the A10.
Quote from: oklahomamick on June 09, 2017, 03:43:43 PMThis may be off topic or already discussed. When the Valley was at the top or near the top of mid-major conferences, why didn't their leadership go get Butler? Could they have gotten the Bulldogs? I think Butler in the MVC was a better fit than Butler in the A10.
Same reason Murray State wasn't added this time: a reluctance to go to an 11 team schedule, adherence to the double round robin, and I would add a perceived lack of need to do so since the Valley was already a consistent multi bid league. I don't think schools were all that eager to leave the Horizon League back then either as it was a great, highly competitive mid-major league just a notch below the Valley. Remember, this was a time when Cleveland State, Wright State, Milwaukee, and even UIC were much better than they are now.
Realignment for basketball reasons didn't really become a thing until recently as most decisions have been driven by football. Without the football-centric move that fractured the Big East and created the American, Creighton, Butler, Wichita State, Loyola, Valpo, VCU, George Mason, and much of the old Conference USA and Sun Belt to name several examples aren't in the conferences they are in today. Some of these moves, like Butler to the A10 and possibly the A10's decision take on VCU and George Mason, likely still occur without football , but most do not .
Chicago State released their schedule yesterday - and Valpo is nowhere to be found. So there's that.
Quote from: jtm on June 16, 2017, 09:38:41 AM
Chicago State released their schedule yesterday - and Valpo is nowhere to be found. So there's that.
I feel pretty bad for Tracy Dildy and Chicago State basketball team financial situation, but I'm also pretty happy we aren't playing them again next season.
Just took a look at their schedule and they've got a handful of guaranteed pay games on their schedule. The Coaching community is definitely helping them out.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 04, 2017, 04:37:28 PM
-Rumored to be in the Savannah Invitational Tournament
(Complicated b/c Loyola is also suppose to play in it, but the NCAA has granted exceptions in the past. Ex: There have been exceptions for swiftly executed conference realignment. Villanova and Xavier were both in 2013 Battle4Atlantis. And of course the year before, Butler and Xavier played a non-conference game both as members of the A10. But we all know the NCAA tends to favor policy towards the larger schools and sticks the middle finger to Mid-Majors like Valpo. Other participants include: UNC-W (a shell of itself from last year), and Kent State who was solid last year in MAC with 22-14 (10-8) and got hot and won their conf tourney. Kent State didn't graduate anyone.
Per Blogging The Bracket, https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2017/6/7/15736894/2017-18-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving (https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2017/6/7/15736894/2017-18-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving) , Valpo will be playing at Savannah. Looks like Valpo will have two home games against teams in the "Visitors" bracket before heading to Savannah. At Savannah, Valpo and Loyola will each play games against Kent State and UNCW, ensuring that they won't meet each other before the MVC season.
https://twitter.com/thed1docket/status/875813545627103232
Confirmed:
November 24 vs. Kent State
November 25 vs. UNCW
Both games at 7:30 PM ET at the Savannah Civic Center.
Quote from: jtm on June 29, 2017, 02:32:06 PM
Confirmed:
November 24 vs. Kent State
November 25 vs. UNCW
Both games at 7:30 PM ET at the Savannah Civic Center.
I'm excited for the Savannah Invitational. I'm going to road trip down to Savannah and make a weekend out of it.
I'm hoping to at least attend on Friday, as the Carolina/Clemson FB game back in Columbia on that Saturday takes precedence.
Heard a rumor that Samford (SoCon) is scheduled to play Valpo at the ARC next season. Anyone else heard this? I'm trying to confirm it and see if its true.
Not a bad game at all. Samford was 20-16 (Conf: 8-10) last season. Beat an A10 team in SLU last season (they weren't great last year) & they played Florida State (very good team) last season and hung in tough against them 76-68.
They'll be a heavy senior team next season.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 30, 2017, 07:59:49 PMHeard a rumor that Samford (SoCon) is scheduled to play Valpo at the ARC next season. Anyone else heard this? I'm trying to confirm it and see if its true. Not a bad game at all. Samford was 20-16 (Conf: 8-10) last season. Beat an A10 team in SLU last season (they weren't great last year) & they played Florida State (very good team) last season and hung in tough against them 76-68. They'll be a heavy senior team next season.
Very good game if true. Hope you're right.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 30, 2017, 07:59:49 PM
Heard a rumor that Samford (SoCon) is scheduled to play Valpo at the ARC next season. Anyone else heard this? I'm trying to confirm it and see if its true.
Not a bad game at all. Samford was 20-16 (Conf: 8-10) last season. Beat an A10 team in SLU last season (they weren't great last year) & they played Florida State (very good team) last season and hung in tough against them 76-68.
They'll be a heavy senior team next season.
?
If VU played Samford and Lemont State College of PA in the same week would that be the Samford and Son trip? ::)
The Samford game is happening. Should be a good game.
Any idea as to when game to be played? I'd also like to see us get an A10 opponent if possible. Maybe a home and home series. Perhaps now as an MVC member that is more a possibility....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vufan75 on July 01, 2017, 01:49:04 PM
Any idea as to when game to be played? I'd also like to see us get an A10 opponent if possible. Maybe a home and home series. Perhaps now as an MVC member that is more a possibility....
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
I remember reading somewhere that VCU and possibly Richmond were looking for home and homes with a top 75 school (we fit that bill) I wonder if they're still looking or if we're in talks with them. I also remember someone speculating that we would play someone from the ACC. They said it would be part of an MTE, but we're already playing in Savannah. Maybe it's a connecting game to our time out there. Georgia Tech Clemson and Florida State wouldn't be too terribly far. One thing's for sure the more I hear about this schedule the more excited I become. It's shaping up to be a really strong one.Hope ML and the coaching staff keep up the good work!
Anybody else notice that we will have a lot of games in common with Loyola ? I don't know if this was by design but it's smart. With the Ramblers projected to be as strong as they are, it should help our metrics should our team mature faster than expected and we find ourselves in the mix for an at-large.
No love for the Samford and Son possibility for scheduling LeMont? I thought that was pretty good.
Quote from: crusadermoe on July 02, 2017, 07:55:39 PM
No love for the Samford and Son possibility for scheduling LeMont? I thought that was pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwPZu9L-CP0
Looks like the schedule is shaping up to be fairly tough. If we go above .500 for the season I would consider that a solid reload year. 20+ wins would be an excellent season. Thoughts?
SO O O O O O many questions still to be answered. But it will be exciting to see how it all works its way out.
I've long felt that with all the new players being incorporated into the system and the conference change, 18-22 wins seems like a reasonable benchmark for the team this year with mhigher expectations next year. I agree that the schedule looks good so far. I believe that regardless of our expectations we should put together an at large quality schedule just in case those low projections are wrong.
It appears Valpo is playing @ UC-Riverside on December 20.
http://gohighlanders.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=381&path=mbball
At least it's a road game. The good news about this is that it means the Santa Clara game out west is a go. The bad news is that this isn't exactly the strongest opponent and there had to be better options in the area.
Also appears we'll play SELA at home as part of the Savannah Invitational Wonder how many nonconference slots we have left. Feels like the schedule could use a little more meat.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/890037945159356416
I have to say though that this is shaping up to be a pretty solid schedule on the whole and I commend the program's willingness to take the team on the road this much. This experience should help them a lot in conference play.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 25, 2017, 09:53:21 PM
At least it's a road game. The good news about this is that it means the Santa Clara game out west is a go. The bad news is that this isn't exactly the strongest opponent and there had to be better options in the area.
Agree that UC-Riverside is not what I was expecting, but I am prepared to listen to a full explanation.
Anybody willing to provide us with any positive spin on this development?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 25, 2017, 10:19:14 PM
Also appears we'll play SELA at home as part of the Savannah Invitational Wonder how many nonconference slots we have left. Feels like the schedule could use a little more meat.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/890037945159356416
I have to say though that this is shaping up to be a pretty solid schedule on the whole and I commend the program's willingness to take the team on the road this much. This experience should help them a lot in conference play.
So (2) B1G teams and several solid mid majors isn't enough "meat" for a rebuilding year? AT LARGE DOESN'T EXIST for VU in 2017/18.
Kent State was also hosting Mississippi Valley State as part of the Savannah Invitational, so the Delta Devils may be coming to Valpo as well.
Nevermind, the Samford game covers that. My bad.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 25, 2017, 10:19:14 PMwe'll play SELA at home
Just looked at the Lion's 2017-18 roster... they have 5 Redshirt Seniors; 1 true (and 1 redshirt) Freshman. They were 16-16 last year, 5-12 away from "The University Center"
http://www.lionsports.net/facilities/?id=2
Built in 1982 at a cost of $16.3 million, the UC has seating capacity for 7,500 and hosts many other functions including Southeastern's commencement, a variety of concerts and community events, and the circus. For home basketball games, there's no denying the electric atmosphere in "The Jungle." During the 2011-12 basketball season, a new electronic message board was added to the press row area to improve the aesthetics. so...7,500 seats... SEASON ATTENDANCE: 11557; they were 11-3 at home, Average Home Attendance: 826 people. (11% capacity) This may be a snide comment, but was there a high school in Porter County that averaged a smaller crowd? Just asking for a friend.
Largest home crowd was McNeese State where they packed in 1,353 people ... smallest crowd was Florida A&M, 486 people.
Their RPI ended at 251, SOS was 324; Best win was at #161 New Orleans, their only win last year against a team with a winning record.
Quote from: jtm on July 25, 2017, 09:33:31 PMValpo is playing @ UC-Riverside
The Highlanders were the identical 2-8 against top 200 RPI teams last year that SELA was.
RPI 330, SOS 303, opening this season on an 8-game losing streak. Best win was New Years Eve over #124 Grand Canyon by 20.
Their Average Home Attendance? 804 (12 home games, total was under 10,000 people)
Now HERE'S an Arena: http://gohighlanders.com/sports/2009/1/24/MBB_0124090629.aspx
The SRC Arena opened as part of the Student Recreation Center in January 1994, providing a state-of-the-art facility for students to build their physical fitness as well as a home for the Highlanders men's and women's basketball and women's volleyball teams.
The Arena has also hosted events such as Midnight Madness, the Chancellor's Convocation for New Students, graduations, and concerts.
In the summer of 2003, a new public address system and sound enhancing tiles were installed, and during the 2010-11 academic year, the Highlanders added a video board and courtside panel tables to improve the entertainment experience for fans, and expand the sponsorship opportunities for our corporate partners. In the summer of 2016, the floor was completely refurbished for the first time since the SRC's opening, and the walls were painted to match UC Riverside's updated color scheme.
The entire 80,000-square-foot building was planned by students and funded through student fees. It is home to an extensive intramural program open to all students and it includes four racquetball/wallyball courts and one squash court, a 6,000-square foot weight training facility and a 3,000 square foot area dedicated to cardio-fitness machines. It also has full locker rooms and three multipurpose rooms.
Shoot. I was hoping Valpo might play at Stanford.
Seems to me as though the coaching staff is adding some (hopefully) guaranteed wins to the schedule to balance it out. I have a feeling they are of the mindset to not over-schedule in a rebuilding year.
The team is going to struggle early and get better as the season progresses. No chance whatsoever of an at-large this year. So we need to schedule like it.
I personally like the schedule. We seem have some top notch teams, some good mid-majors on neutral courts, and a fair number of very winnable games in case the team fails to gel as quickly as we hope.
Quote from: VUOR63 on July 26, 2017, 09:08:29 AM
Shoot. I was hoping Valpo might play at Stanford.
Me too. Seems like a pay game or initiating a higher quality road-home series should have been the objective. If they will be coming to the ARC in 18-19 I doubt they will be able to attract much of a crowd.
I think its a real good idea to schedule very winnable road games in noncon. Learning to win on the road is huge.
I like the way our 2017-2018 Non-Conference schedule is shaping up. I like it for this particular team. With 6 new guys and graduating the last senior class its going to be a transition and this team will need to find its identity and chemistry together.
Whatever prepares us best for the MVC season.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 26, 2017, 12:21:07 PM
I like the way our 2017-2018 Non-Conference schedule is shaping up. I like it for this particular team. With 6 new guys and graduating the last senior class its going to be a transition and this team will need to find its identity and chemistry together.
Well I asked for some positive spin on this Riverside game and you folks have lined up to provide it. :) BUT
Lets jump to 18-19 when many are expecting us to be an at-large contender. If Riverside comes to the ARC what benefit will it provide us? Ok- I know I may have asked the same question about Santa Clara last year (before they handed us our heads) but every year is different. Is it too early to start speculating on our 18-19 OOC schedule?
Rule of thumb for any season------It is always easier to fill in junk opponents than to lock in the consistently good ones.
Do we know for sure that there will be a return game?
I talked to someone I trust and they said it was happening. Also Paul and Michael both confirmed publicly so seems like a lock. To be honest I was wondering if they were going to try and push the West Coast road trip (return game) till the 2018-2019 season (which we are projected to be much stronger with Fazekas and a full year under our belt with these 6 new guys) but looks like its happening next season. I was hoping Coach Lottich could pull some strings or use his Stanford Connection to get a series with Stanford. Would be awesome to play Stanford at their place this year and then play them at home in 2018-2019 when are projected to be even stronger. I'm guessing they called but P5 hardly ever give return games anymore.
Take a look at the month of December. Pretty tough schedule. Lots of road games. A very good test and these road trips could be pretty good for team bonding.
Dec. 7 - @ Purdue
Dec. 9 - @ Ball State
Dec. 14 - @ Northwestern
Dec. 20 - @ UC-Riverside
Dec. ? - @ Santa Clara
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/890235139082657792
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/811286081366855680
Michael did a great interview with Coach Lottich a few months ago talking about next seasons schedule. The strategy makes sense for this team.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/842099090255155201
I have to say for the grousing I have done about games like SIUE and UC-Riverside being on the schedule I will gladly take our schedule over that of Southern Illinois. Their home slate is hideous and their road games aren't great either unless Murray State and SLU have suddenly improved dramatically. Talk about a team that's trying to get fat off of easy layups at home. I will say that their MTE in Vegas is nice but really not a great deal better than ours in Savannah. (They will play two of Duquesne, Nevada, and San Francisco in late December.) That timetable dovetails with our California trip and may help explain why UC-Riverside is on the schedule in the first place, as I viewed USF as the ideal opponent to pair with Santa Clara. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to play St Mary's, Stanford or Cal, but I'd prefer to save those series for next year when we'll be more experienced, deeper, and stronger. As strange as it sounds, UC-Riverside may have been the best possible get for our schedule for the time we'll be spending in California. Here's a link to the schedule announcement for the Salukis.
http://siusalukis.com/news/2017/7/28/mens-basketball-unveils-2017-18-non-conference-slate.aspx
They do play Louisville, however.
Ah......
.........The picture of their athletic complex is pretty cool, though. :)
It would be nice to have that arena.
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/891648461749325824
https://twitter.com/KampeOU/status/891692629532057602
https://twitter.com/pfeiffjd/status/891697011875094529
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/891702957112250368
https://twitter.com/ValpoAD/status/891760197848399872
Of course there is a Butler fan that says screw the Mid-Majors schools but while he was in the Horizon League was complaining about scheduling. SMH.
https://twitter.com/Title_BU/status/891712814615867395
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/891720037253476352
If the potential schedule (so far) is true, Valpo has two road games against teams with an RPI less than 330 in 2016-2017. I realize that scheduling is difficult, but that does not seem good.
At least they're road games. As for the buy-game vs. home and home debate, I'd say it's situation dependent. Who are you using the proceeds from the buy game to buy yourselves if anyone and is the home and home against a mid major against a program that can benefit your team's SOS or is it a team that can positively impact attendance\ be a game your fans would travel well to? If you're going to use the money from the buy game to productively move your program forward then take the buy game. If the home and home is an RPI drag, take the buy game. If it's a good home and home then take it that meets the conditions specified above . Great question though.
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 30, 2017, 11:21:37 PM
If the potential schedule (so far) is true, Valpo has two road games against teams with an RPI less than 330 in 2016-2017. I realize that scheduling is difficult, but that does not seem good.
I don't think the Coaching Staff is looking for a outright bid next season, which is completely understandable. I don't like see games against SIUE either but I understand why we're doing it. The SIUE games was made for the St. Louis Alumni and not for basketball reasons.
With all the turnover of the roster and losing that senior class its understandable to take a "lighter" schedule next season and on top of that join a different Conference. I'm good with the schedule so far. I wish we had some more exciting home games scheduled but thats the nature of being a Mid-Major these days. When the Top 6 conferences refuse to play at other teams arenas and even the A10 and AAC teams try and do the same its makes it extremely tough to land compelling home games for Mid-Majors.
Home Games:
-Utah State - solid game and not a bad team
-Samford - won't get anyone excited but they should be a solid team
-Southeastern Louisiana - ...... well they're a home game... and they won't a be a push-over. They have a explosive tiny PG named Marlain Veal who is a stat stuffer and if he's on could push us.
I would expect us to hopefully have a more aggressive schedule in the 2018-2019, although I'm not sure we will be able to land 2 'Big 10' teams to play us that season because they know the roster should be more competitive with Fazekas, Burton being a senior, Bakari being a JR, and all the next guys having a year under their belt. To be honest the schedule isn't that bad for this season so far from what we've seen so far.
ML2 dropping knowledge on a delusional Butler fan.
https://twitter.com/mlabarb1/status/892019414681477120
https://twitter.com/mlabarb1/status/892019770752729089
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/892029001103028224
https://twitter.com/Title_BU/status/892029306955870209
https://twitter.com/mlabarb1/status/892032799909302272
https://twitter.com/mlabarb1/status/892035014870872064
https://twitter.com/Title_BU/status/892029666508374017
https://twitter.com/Title_BU/status/892029899925594113
Quote from: VU2014 on July 31, 2017, 09:47:37 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 30, 2017, 11:21:37 PM
If the potential schedule (so far) is true, Valpo has two road games against teams with an RPI less than 330 in 2016-2017. I realize that scheduling is difficult, but that does not seem good.
I don't think the Coaching Staff is looking for a outright bid next season, which is completely understandable. I don't like see games against SIUE either but I understand why we're doing it. The SIUE games was made for the St. Louis Alumni and not for basketball reasons.
With all the turnover of the roster and losing that senior class its understandable to take a "lighter" schedule next season and on top of that join a different Conference. I'm good with the schedule so far. I wish we had some more exciting home games scheduled but thats the nature of being a Mid-Major these days. When the Top 6 conferences refuse to play at other teams arenas and even the A10 and AAC teams try and do the same its makes it extremely tough to land compelling home games for Mid-Majors.
Home Games:
-Utah State - solid game and not a bad team
-Samford - won't get anyone excited but they should be a solid team
-Southeastern Louisiana - ...... well they're a home game... and they won't a be a push-over. They have a explosive tiny PG named Marlain Veal who is a stat stuffer and if he's on could push us.
I would expect us to hopefully have a more aggressive schedule in the 2018-2019, although I'm not sure we will be able to land 2 'Big 10' teams to play us that season because they know the roster should be more competitive with Fazekas, Burton being a senior, Bakari being a JR, and all the next guys having a year under their belt. To be honest the schedule isn't that bad for this season so far from what we've seen so far.
My comments were much more towards building an exciting non-conference schedule that will draw more fans for home games and increase interest going into the MVC season. Games against SIU-E and UC-Riverside are negatives, not positives. And how many stronger mid-major teams play not one but two games on the road against sub RPI 330 teams? Additionally, I question how many Valpo fans in St. Louis (most of whom would be in the suburbs of St. Louis) are going to drive 25-50 miles on a Wednesday night to go see Valpo play a low D1 team.
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 31, 2017, 10:36:11 AM
My comments were much more towards building an exciting non-conference schedule that will draw more fans for home games and increase interest going into the MVC season. Games against SIU-E and UC-Riverside are negatives, not positives. And how many stronger mid-major teams play not one but two games on the road against sub RPI 330 teams? Additionally, I question how many Valpo fans in St. Louis (most of whom would be in the suburbs of St. Louis) are going to drive 25-50 miles on a Wednesday night to go see Valpo play a low D1 team.
You can't schedule for the fans. You have to schedule for the teams needs. I'd love to see us playing Top Mid-Majors every year and playing home-&-homes with P5/BE teams but that just isn't realistic in this current era of College Basketball (hopefully it changes).
I think will probably try and make it a alumni event like VU has done with Milwaukee Alumni Base which has been pretty successful. If I lived in the St. Louis area I'd definitely come to watch Valpo play. The St. Louis Alumni are going to be spoiled every year with Arch Madness. Also keep in mind there is a large Lutheran population in St. Louis so depending on how they market/advertise this thing they could probably draw maybe a few casual fans.
While I agree that you have to be realistic regarding what a mid-major can schedule, I think that you always need to strongly consider the fans when developing a schedule. Last season's non-conference schedule was great. Eight home non-conference games, including #21 Rhode Island along with Indiana State and Santa Clara, and quality neutral site opponents. This schedule has three home non-conference games so far, and only one would generate some interest (Utah State). Plus, giving two non-conference road games to vastly inferior programs? Arrggh!!
Marketing to Valparaiso fans and potential students in the St. Louis area using Arch Madness makes a lot of sense. That is one of the many benefits of moving to the MVC. Edwardsville is not akin to people living in St. Louis like the MECCA is to people living in Milwaukee. The Valpo turnout at Milwaukee was great last year, but I would bet that they won't get 100 Valpo fans at Edwardsville.
Have you seen the gym at SIUE? 100 fans is more than enough to make it a home court...
Quote from: RacerJoeD on July 31, 2017, 01:50:46 PM
Have you seen the gym at SIUE? 100 fans is more than enough to make it a home court...
Slightly over 4K capacity. But they have nice red chairbacks ::)
http://www.siuecougars.com/facilities/vadalabene_center_basketball
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 31, 2017, 02:17:25 PM
Quote from: RacerJoeD on July 31, 2017, 01:50:46 PM
Have you seen the gym at SIUE? 100 fans is more than enough to make it a home court...
Slightly over 4K capacity. But they have nice red chairbacks ::)
http://www.siuecougars.com/facilities/vadalabene_center_basketball
Hey! They drew 1028 on a Saturday night for the big IUPUI game!!
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 31, 2017, 02:17:25 PM
Quote from: RacerJoeD on July 31, 2017, 01:50:46 PM
Have you seen the gym at SIUE? 100 fans is more than enough to make it a home court...
Slightly over 4K capacity. But they have nice red chairbacks ::)
http://www.siuecougars.com/facilities/vadalabene_center_basketball
Build it and they will come?
I believe it's been reported elsewhere that the SIU-E contract was signed *prior* to our MVC invitation, so I don't think that should be looked at as any sort of standard for the future, nor should anyone dwell on it too much. An HL team giving a home-and-home to an OVC squad is hardly unprecedented.
The Butler scheduling is indeed an anomaly. The reason they weren't frozen out in scheduling like every other good mid-major (pre Final 4) was the desire by many top teams to get a good road game in the fertile recruiting territory of Indy (or they had a player from Indy that they were trying to get a game near home to support -- Dean Smith famously brought North Carolina to Hinkle in the early 90s to play a then-awful Butler team for just this reason when Eric Montross was on the team). If Butler were located in Kokomo or Anderson, they'd have had every bit of the difficulty in scheduling that every other quality midmajor has faced for the past three decades.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on July 31, 2017, 03:33:43 PM
The Butler scheduling is indeed an anomaly. The reason they weren't frozen out in scheduling like every other good mid-major (pre Final 4) was the desire by many top teams to get a good road game in the fertile recruiting territory of Indy (or they had a player from Indy that they were trying to get a game near home to support -- Dean Smith famously brought North Carolina to Hinkle in the early 90s to play a then-awful Butler team for just this reason when Eric Montross was on the team). If Butler were located in Kokomo or Anderson, they'd have had every bit of the difficulty in scheduling that every other quality midmajor has faced for the past three decades.
The fertile recruiting argument doesn't hold up anymore these days. Its true that it had an impact before every game was on TV or able to be streamed but imo the real reason is because the the times have changed greatly in the last 5-10 years or so.
Scheduling is much different then it was even in 2010. P5s/BE teams were willing to play on the road in Non-Conference but now days they won't do it because they can just buy home games and reduce risk of a loss and it increases their tourney chances.
Butler was lucky that Brad Stevens and Gordon Hayward were at the right place at the right time. If Lickliter stuck around and didn't take the Iowa job who knows where they'd be. Yes they Stevens was on staff but you don't know if Hayward would commit there and Stevens is a superior coach to to Lickliter. If Butler didn't go on those 2 magical Tourney runs to to the Finals I don't think they'd get the invite to the Big East as soon as they did. I think they eventually would have moved up to the MVC or A10 but not the BE.
The A10 & AAC still have more scheduling leverage over other Mid-Major Conference (A10 is MM but AAC isn't, imo) but they don't have nearly the leverage the of Big East or P5 Teams. Something needs to change in the scheduling. Mid-Majors have always been able to do more with less in terms of resources but the schedule monopoly is something the NCAA needs to address. Teams need to start playing on the road more in non-conference.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on July 31, 2017, 03:33:43 PMI believe it's been reported elsewhere that the SIU-E contract was signed *prior* to our MVC invitation, so I don't think that should be looked at as any sort of standard for the future, nor should anyone dwell on it too much. An HL team giving a home-and-home to an OVC squad is hardly unprecedented.
That's right. Most of these scheduling agreements were concluded (Purdue Ball State Northwestern SIUE Santa Clara Savannah Invitational) before we were invited to the MVC. These teams were negotiating with Horizon League Valpo not MVC Valpo. We're essentially playing an HL nonconference schedule this year and I think we've scheduled really well by HL standards and pretty well by MVC standards. I'm not sure if Purdue and Northwestern would be more or less likely to play MVC Valpo (probably more), but I'm sure we've got a real chance to see BE teams and better quality mid majors both at home and on the road in the future. I would hope and expect that the days of scheduling multiple bottom feeding programs are soon behind us.
Here's your Santa Clara confirmation:
http://www.santaclarabroncos.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/releases/20170801ru31v6
Cool!
So the official valpo basketball schedule coming out around September? Right on schedule 👍
While it is always annoying to not have the schedule come out until September, I feel that waiting may be a good strategy for Valpo. It allows them to consider possible games with desirable opponents who also have one remaining game to schedule or had someone drop them at the last minute. In other words, being patient can possibly increase Valpo's leverage.
True, but it can also result in games with a D-3 or a terrible 300+ D-1 because we need someone, anyone to fill the slot.
I've heard MVC schedules typically come out a bit earlier but obviously with the membership realignment everything is a bit behind this year. Either way, our non-conference schedule should be viewed as mostly an HL OOC schedule, since most games were either contracted or in the works prior to our MVC invite. VU will be entering discussions for next year's OOC in a stronger position.
http://nmstatesports.com/news/2017/8/2/mens-basketball-aggies-and-fighting-illini-battle-at-the-united-center.aspx
Any chance we can get New Mexico State to the ARC at some point right around this game with a return game in Las Cruces next year to be scheduled some time around the MWC\MVC challenge when we'll likely be in the neighborhood since we'll be on the road? Or we can play the whole series this year and tack it onto the California trip. I know the logistics will be tough to pull off for the game @Valpo because we have Northwestern on the 14th and Santa Clara on the 18th while they play this game at the UC vs Illinois on the 16th; but it would be a great addition to our schedule if we could pull it off. I doubt either team is interested in playing a back to back though and that's likely what this game would be given the time windows involved. Perhaps we could move the Northwestern game up in order to accommodate this game as well but that of course would depend on Northwestern's schedule and given how hard it is to get P5 games a home game with NMSU or a Home and Home with them, as nice as it would be, isn't worth losing the Northwestern game over.
Getting a game against a team like NMSU is what I was getting at by being patient. From a basketball standpoint, NMSU is a lot like Valpo - a good team that can have scheduling challenges.
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 03, 2017, 07:30:13 AMGetting a game against a team like NMSU is what I was getting at by being patient. From a basketball standpoint, NMSU is a lot like Valpo - a good team that can have scheduling challenges.
I hear you loud and clear and support the patient scheduling strategy wholeheartedly. I was just submitting this as a potential opportunity for discussion since it would be a quality mid major school who would be in our area and may be looking for a solid connecting game and\or to start up a series.
I'm not sure this game would be wise, at least this season, as it would mean something like 3 games in 4 days very quickly into a season of so many new players on the floor together? I would love to see us play NMSU as well, but not this quickly into a season, in terms of cramming so many games together in the first week of the season.
Your point is well-taken. This year's Crusaders may not be ready for 3 games in 4 days all against strong competition. That said,you learn and grow more by taking on tougher competition, even if the results don't show right away, and this schedule could use another quality home game. Also, I really don't believe that a game against New Mexico State is unwinnable based on this Valpo team's talent level. Of course, talent means nothing if you haven't jelled or learned to maximize the team's abilities because you don't know how to play together.
Tough call, but maybe I'm just being hyper-sensitive to the need to schedule up for the MVC, and overly fearful that we won't be well-received unless our schedule is super strong. I've seen some of the flack schools like Evansville take from rival fans when it comes to scheduling;and I don't want that to ever happen to VU. Fair or not I think a great number of fans will judge us by our ability to "replace" Wichita State because a lot of the conference's future depends on that. Maybe, though, it is better to focus on adjusting to learning to play against and beating our in-conference competition rather than risking the possibility of the team hitting the wall before they ever play a conference game.
Perhaps this is the kind of game and situation next year's team can and should undertake.We'll be more experienced and hopefully deeper and more talented. I do expect a stronger schedule next year (not that this one is bad). How strong depends on how we do and who we get I suppose. Though I personally come from the school that thinks you should schedule as tough as you realistically can, but I can see where some pragmatism could come into play and be beneficial. Just don't let those calculations lead you to gorge on too many cupcakes ala SIU. Unfortunately this specific opportunity won't be available next year, but perhaps a comparable or better one will be. When that time and opportunity comes, I sincerely hope Valpo seizes it. I'm very bullish on the program's present and future, next year (2018-2019) especially.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 03, 2017, 09:36:19 AM
Your point is well-taken. This year's Crusaders may not be ready for 3 games in 4 days all against strong competition. That said,you learn and grow more by taking on tougher competition, even if the results don't show right away, and this schedule could use another quality home game. Also, I really don't believe that a game against New Mexico State is unwinnable based on this Valpo team's talent level. Of course, talent means nothing if you haven't jelled or learned to maximize the team's abilities because you don't know how to play together.
Tough call, but maybe I'm just being hyper-sensitive to the need to schedule up for the MVC, and overly fearful that we won't be well-received unless our schedule is super strong. I've seen some of the flack schools like Evansville take from rival fans when it comes to scheduling;and I don't want that to ever happen to VU. Fair or not I think a great number of fans will judge us by our ability to "replace" Wichita State because a lot of the conference's future depends on that. Maybe, though, it is better to focus on adjusting to learning to play against and beating our in-conference competition rather than risking the possibility of the team hitting the wall before they ever play a conference game.
Perhaps this is the kind of game and situation next year's team can and should undertake.We'll be more experienced and hopefully deeper and more talented. I do expect a stronger schedule next year (not that this one is bad). How strong depends on how we do and who we get I suppose. Though I personally come from the school that thinks you should schedule as tough as you realistically can, but I can see where some pragmatism could come into play and be beneficial. Just don't let those calculations lead you to gorge on too many cupcakes ala SIU. Unfortunately this specific opportunity won't be available next year, but perhaps a comparable or better one will be. When that time and opportunity comes, I sincerely hope Valpo seizes it. I'm very bullish on the program's present and future, next year (2018-2019) especially.
I understand your comment and fully agree that next year will be challenging as the guys learn to play together. At the same time the core of the team has been with Coach Lottich for a minimum of one season either as active players or red-shirt players who have practiced under his guidance. Those guys include Max, Tevonn, J, Derrik, Joe, Bakari, John Kiser and Micah. That's 8 guys including two four year guys. Add in two guys who have also had a year of JC ball or international experience and you are down to only two true freshman. It may go smoother than you might think.
I think Belmont will provide a good litmus test for which side of this argument is more correct. Their nonconference slate is EXTREMELY tough and we all know how Charmin-soft their conference schedule is. If Belmont does well in the nonconference but falter in conference then there is such a thing as too much too early in the year. If not and they sail through the OVC and get at-large consideration then we know what we need to do going forward. It's not a perfect test because our conference is much stronger but I think it will still provide instructive data for us to use as a guide for future scheduling. Here's a link to their schedule:
http://www.belmontbruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/schedule
I would love to see VU schedule like this consistently especially when they think it's a "go for it" year.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 04, 2017, 02:01:42 AMTheir nonconference slate is EXTREMELY tough and we all know how Charmin-soft their conference schedule is.
Belmont's non-conf schedule has a possible three HL teams on it. It can't be all that tough. :-[
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 04, 2017, 02:01:42 AM
I think Belmont will provide a good litmus test for which side of this argument is more correct. Their nonconference slate is EXTREMELY tough and we all know how Charmin-soft their conference schedule is. If Belmont does well in the nonconference but falter in conference then there is such a thing as too much too early in the year. If not and they sail through the OVC and get at-large consideration then we know what we need to do going forward. It's not a perfect test because our conference is much stronger but I think it will still provide instructive data for us to use as a guide for future scheduling. Here's a link to their schedule:
http://www.belmontbruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/schedule
I would love to see VU schedule like this consistently especially when they think it's a "go for it" year.
I don't think Valpo wants to schedule like Belmont does each and every year, or they already would have. Belmont has 4 games against power conference teams, and 2 games against Conf. USA contenders, and 5 of those 6 games are on the road. Belmont has always scheduled like this, and has never gotten higher than an 11 seed and has never been an at large team. It's not a bad way to schedule for the short term if Valpo is able to take advantage of it and go to a couple of Sweet 16's in close proximity and builds its resume in the crapshoot that is the NCAA tournament. Otherwise you wind up like Belmont, who's been banging its head on this wall since they became a D1 program. Belmont's a good program, and has been to the tourney 7 of the last 16 years, but they've never won a game in the tourney, so they continue to struggle getting bigger-name programs to come play at their gym (which I think is what every smaller school eventually wants).
I think a big problem with Belmont's issues with seeding is the conference in which they play though.The OVC and the ASUN aren't exactly basketball hotbeds and playing a full slate like that really hurts your metrics. If Belmont were in a stronger conference like the MVC they wouldn't have to be this extreme in the nonconference. Unfortunately, for teams lower than the AAC\A10\MWC tier, it's getting to the point where we may have to schedule like that to get any attention from the committee.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 04, 2017, 04:40:41 PM
I think a big problem with Belmont's issues with seeding is the conference in which they play though.The OVC and the ASUN aren't exactly basketball hotbeds and playing a full slate like that really hurts your metrics. If Belmont were in a stronger conference like the MVC they wouldn't have to be this extreme in the nonconference. Unfortunately, for teams lower than the AAC\A10\MWC tier, it's getting to the point where we may have to schedule like that to get any attention from the committee.
Agree. The strength of the MVC is evident by having 4 teams included in College Sports Madness Top 144 ( http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews (http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews). Very impressive.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 04, 2017, 08:21:38 PMAgree. The strength of the MVC is evident by having 4 teams included in College Sports Madness Top 144 ( http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews. Very impressive.
Wow! :o
If these Madness predictions are accurate then how low will the MVC fall? Will we have to send a MVC all-star team to the NCAA to be competitive? ::)
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 04, 2017, 08:21:38 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 04, 2017, 04:40:41 PMI think a big problem with Belmont's issues with seeding is the conference in which they play though.The OVC and the ASUN aren't exactly basketball hotbeds and playing a full slate like that really hurts your metrics. If Belmont were in a stronger conference like the MVC they wouldn't have to be this extreme in the nonconference. Unfortunately, for teams lower than the AAC\A10\MWC tier, it's getting to the point where we may have to schedule like that to get any attention from the committee.
Agree. The strength of the MVC is evident by having 4 teams included in College Sports Madness Top 144 ( http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews (http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews). Very impressive.
Quote from: justducky on August 04, 2017, 08:53:04 PMQuote from: EddieCabot on August 04, 2017, 08:21:38 PMAgree. The strength of the MVC is evident by having 4 teams included in College Sports Madness Top 144 ( http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews. Very impressive.
Wow! :o If these Madness predictions are accurate then how low will the MVC fall? Will we have to send a MVC all-star team to the NCAA to be competitive? ::)
Same number as the WCC which did get an at-large bid this past year (St Mary's)
Cupcake eaters?:lol: You'll get an especially warm welcome to Carbondale this year ;)
Quote from: underdawg on August 04, 2017, 09:34:45 PM
Cupcake eaters?:lol: You'll get an especially warm welcome to Carbondale this year ;)
I wonder what Cardiac Cardinal, Jim Hart, would have thought of that non-conf basketball schedule. Benton Rangers' famous Rich Herrin?
No matter how many cupcakes we eat, I think we're going to be pretty damn good this year--I haven't truly said that for 7-8 years. I think everyone in the Valley will be surprised at what SIU puts on the floor in 2017-18. That being said, it's going to be a Dawg fight between 4-5 teams for the title--believe me. Everyone is pushing for MSU and Loyola to be co-favorites but guess what? SIU swept both teams last season (5-0)--Loyola we beat three times in a row (once in the MVC Tourney)
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 04, 2017, 08:21:38 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 04, 2017, 04:40:41 PM
I think a big problem with Belmont's issues with seeding is the conference in which they play though.The OVC and the ASUN aren't exactly basketball hotbeds and playing a full slate like that really hurts your metrics. If Belmont were in a stronger conference like the MVC they wouldn't have to be this extreme in the nonconference. Unfortunately, for teams lower than the AAC\A10\MWC tier, it's getting to the point where we may have to schedule like that to get any attention from the committee.
Agree. The strength of the MVC is evident by having 4 teams included in College Sports Madness Top 144 ( http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews (http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews). Very impressive.
At least a strong pool of coaches - Drake also had a coach that didn't win a single game in February.
http://www.samfordsports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&
Samford @ Valpo November 21
Just thinking out loud here.
I wonder if Valpo will play Flagler College next season or sometime the next few years. Coach Warner was on staff last season and he became the head coach of Flalger a D2 school. Valpo always plays a D2 at home as a "tune-up" game. I could see us eventually playing them.
Also has Valpo ever played Greg Tonagel's Indiana Wesleyan? I know Indiana Wesleyan has been a NAIA D2 powerhouse under Tonagel. That would be an interesting matchup just because of the Tonagel connection. Valpo should absolutely crush them but it would be a game vs a D2 school that would be mildly compelling.
Flagler makes sense....I wonder if there are hard feelings between Tonagel and VU athletic department after he didn't get an interview.
Quote from: M on August 18, 2017, 11:30:20 AM....I wonder if there are hard feelings between Tonagel and VU athletic department after he didn't get an interview.
Good point. I forgot about that. I was a little surprised he didn't get a interview either but I wasn't surprised he didn't get hired.
I've heard many sports media folks and members of the basketball community rave about Tonagel's Basketball acumen & coaching abilities but there is a huge step up from the NAIA D2 level to D1. I would absolutely love for Tonagel to become an assistant at Valpo one day and then if he shows the ability to recruit then I think he'd be an obvious candidate for a interview for the future Head Coach job, if the position came up down the road. If there is any bad blood I hope it gets patched up.
Mark LaBarbera did a interview after Coach Lottich was hired and he mentioned how the best & most consistent Mid-Major Programs hire from within generally (ex: Butler). We have a very well respected and great coaching staff. Luke Gore is a stud Big Man coach & is elder statesman of Valpo Basketball. I'm a huge fan of Coach Rags and I've heard great thing about Coach Dildy.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 18, 2017, 10:43:38 AMAlso has Valpo ever played Greg Tonagel's Indiana Wesleyan? I know Indiana Wesleyan has been a NAIA D2 powerhouse under Tonagel. That would be an interesting matchup just because of the Tonagel connection. Valpo should absolutely crush them but it would be a game vs a D2 school that would be mildly compelling.
Must read articles about what Greg Tonagel is doing at IWUIWU basketball embracing 'high expectations' (http://www.news-sentinel.com/20170724/iwu-basketball-embracing-high-expectations)
I was not someone who thought that Greg should have been our head coach. The COACHING gap between NAIA and D1 is pretty large when talking about Valpo's expectations at THIS level, but I believe that what Greg is doing and embracing now at IWU could bode well for him if he wants to move up in the future to the NCAA D1 level. Quite frankly, he is probably doing pretty well for himself at IWU without the pressure of a D1 job, in an atmosphere that I believe he really enjoys.
IWU Men's Basketball Adds KANSAS JAYHAWK Transfer Evan Maxwell (http://rrsn.com/iwu-mens-basketball-adds-kansas-university-transfer-evan-maxwell/) Yes, THAT Kansas.
Evan Maxwell is an athletic 6'10" Big Man who transferred to Kansas from Liberty University. He redshirted his last year at Kansas and will be a Junior at IWU. Versus Valpo, he would be the best big man on the floor. This coming season, the Wildcats have recruited a pair of Indiana All-Stars. Yes, that is correct, I said 2 2017 Indiana All-Stars (Connersville's Grant Smith and Warsaw's Kyle Mangas) to go along with Evan Maxwell. On paper, it would probably rank as one of the better 2017 recruiting classes this year in Indiana College Basketball regardless of affiliation or division.
I believe that IWU could hang with most decent D1 mid-majors. They will be a dominant force in the NAIA, division 2 or division 1, makes no difference. I seriously doubt that Valpo would "crush" them. I am sure most of you remember the loss to Bethel starting the 97-98 Sweet-Sixteen season.
Former Valpo recruit and Bethel star (and current Bethel head coach) Ryne Lightfoot explains why NAIA can be the best choice for players being recruited by D-1 schools:
http://www.ncsasports.org/blog/2013/03/25/insights-player-d1-level/
Quote from: VU2014 on August 18, 2017, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: M on August 18, 2017, 11:30:20 AM....I wonder if there are hard feelings between Tonagel and VU athletic department after he didn't get an interview.
Good point. I forgot about that. I was a little surprised he didn't get a interview either but I wasn't surprised he didn't get hired.
I've heard many sports media folks and members of the basketball community rave about Tonagel's Basketball acumen & coaching abilities but there is a huge step up from the NAIA D2 level to D1. I would absolutely love for Tonagel to become an assistant at Valpo one day and then if he shows the ability to recruit then I think he'd be an obvious candidate for a interview for the future Head Coach job, if the position came up down the road. If there is any bad blood I hope it gets patched up.
Mark LaBarbera did a interview after Coach Lottich was hired and he mentioned how the best & most consistent Mid-Major Programs hire from within generally (ex: Butler). We have a very well respected and great coaching staff. Luke Gore is a stud Big Man coach & is elder statesman of Valpo Basketball. I'm a huge fan of Coach Rags and I've heard great thing about Coach Dildy.
Getting the kid out of Kansas (not sure why he was there--a 2 star coming out of high school) and two Indiana All Stars, would indicate that he can recruit. His record at the NAIA level is extremely good. I'm pretty sure the basket is the same height in D1 and the ball is still round.
Quote from: FWalum on August 19, 2017, 12:03:14 PM
I believe that IWU could hang with most decent D1 mid-majors. They will be a dominant force in the NAIA, division 2 or division 1, makes no difference. I seriously doubt that Valpo would "crush" them. I am sure most of you remember the loss to Bethel starting the 97-98 Sweet-Sixteen season.
Don't get me wrong. It's a nice team and well coached but that roster would finish dead last in the MVC. I've heard Mangas is pretty good player but he'd still only be a freshman. They don't have the same caliber of athletes does but its possible because anyone can beat anyone on the right day. Just last year our guys didn't take a D2 Trinity seriously and it was way too close for comfort. They weren't amped up or excited to play & it showed, then Valpo blew them up out-scored Trinity 53-30 in the second half coach lit a fire under their @$$ at half time.
If the players took the game seriously & came into the game with energy it wouldn't be close. IWU would need to play the game of their lives & Valpo would need to play the worst game of its life and come into the game with zero energy, imo.
I looked it up and I guess we have played IWU before back during the 2007-2008 season and beat them 93-46.
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/280022674
Quote from: FWalum on August 19, 2017, 12:03:14 PM
I was not someone who thought that Greg should have been our head coach. The COACHING gap between NAIA and D1 is pretty large when talking about Valpo's expectations at THIS level, but I believe that what Greg is doing and embracing now at IWU could bode well for him if he wants to move up in the future to the NCAA D1 level. Quite frankly, he is probably doing pretty well for himself at IWU without the pressure of a D1 job, in an atmosphere that I believe he really enjoys.
Coaching is coaching. There have been guys who have successfully made that jump in the past. Example: Linc Darner made the jump from Florida Southern College. Tonagel is more then capable at the D1 level with the X's & O's and development from what I've heard. He was also mentored by Homer.
Maybe he's happy at that level but apparently he wasn't happy about not being considered for the Valpo job and suggest aspirations jumping to the D1 level one day. He'll get an opportunity someday to get a D1 Head Coaching job.
"Homer Drew, who didn't return a text message seeking comment, lobbied for Tonagel to get serious consideration, according to multiple sources. So, did Bryce Drew, according to sources.
LaPorte boys basketball coach Joe Otis, a former VU assistant, wrote a letter of recommendation.
According to several sources, Tonagel turned down an offer to be Lottich's assistant.
Tonagel wouldn't confirm that, but he admitted he is "just wired to be a head coach." He did turn down an offer to return with Bryce in 2011 because the timing wasn't right."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-ptb-mike-hutton-column-st-0424-20160423-column.html
I don't recall ever hearing Greg's name come up as a serious candidate for a head coaching vacancy anywhere in D-1. Either no one in D-1 feels he's a viable head coaching candidate, or he has been invited to interview and declined. Add in his apparent unwillingness to work his way up through the assistant ranks, and he's pretty well pigeonholed in NAIA anyway you look at it.
As for the Valpo vacancy, selecting an outsider with no D-1 coaching experience over a highly respected and capable assistant coach, of a team many predicted to make the NCAA tourney no less, would be a huge roll of the dice for any AD, especially one still living a nightmare from a similar decision he made a few years ago on the women's side.
Welcome back, wh! Hope you summer trip was good! :thumbsup:
Quote from: zvillehaze on August 20, 2017, 06:17:41 PMWelcome back, wh! Hope you summer trip was good!
Same for me.
I almost got to where I was missing him. :o
Quote from: justducky on August 20, 2017, 06:37:27 PM
Quote from: zvillehaze on August 20, 2017, 06:17:41 PMWelcome back, wh! Hope you summer trip was good!
Same for me.
I almost got to where I was missing him. :o
Thanks, zville. Great place to visit with attractive investment opportunities. Unfortunately, we had to return 2 weeks early after I got dysentery. Lost 15 pounds over the last 10 days we were there. Finally starting to feel better, thanks to a regimen of potent antibiotics, probiotics, etc.
Oh, lest I forget - love you too, ducky! ;)
Quote from: VU2014 on August 19, 2017, 05:01:42 PMDon't get me wrong. It's a nice team and well coached but that roster would finish dead last in the MVC. I've heard Mangas is pretty good player but he'd still only be a freshman. They don't have the same caliber of athletes does but its possible because anyone can beat anyone on the right day. Just last year our guys didn't take a D2 Trinity seriously and it was way too close for comfort. They weren't amped up or excited to play & it showed, then Valpo blew them up out-scored Trinity 53-30 in the second half coach lit a fire under their @$$ at half time.
If the players took the game seriously & came into the game with energy it wouldn't be close. IWU would need to play the game of their lives & Valpo would need to play the worst game of its life and come into the game with zero energy, imo. Coaching is coaching. There have been guys who have successfully made that jump in the past. Example: Linc Darner made the jump from Florida Southern College. Tonagel is more then capable at the D1 level with the X's & O's and development from what I've heard. He was also mentored by Homer.
Maybe he's happy at that level but apparently, he wasn't happy about not being considered for the Valpo job and suggest aspirations jumping to the D1 level one day. He'll get an opportunity someday to get a D1 Head Coaching job.
Not sure where you got the idea to equate being competitive in the MVC to "hanging with most decent D1 mid-majors", I never implied that to be the case. However, I believe that you drastically underestimate the players and talent on the upper echelon teams in the NAIA. The 2007-2008 IWU team that lost to Valpo in such decisive fashion was one of the two worst teams that Greg has had at IWU in his 12 year tenure. That would most likely not happen today. IWU is a far superior program when compared to Trinity Christian.
Your statement that "coaching is coaching" is very naive. If it were so simple then why would any school pay millions of dollars to elite coaches, they would just go out and hire another "coach". Sure there are coaches like Darner that come from much lower level programs and prove themselves, but you make it sound so easy. Believe me, it isn't.
The Mike Hutton story was basically a rehash of the Tom Davis story http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/columns/Valpo-AD-drops-the-ball-in-ignoring-Tonagel (http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/columns/Valpo-AD-drops-the-ball-in-ignoring-Tonagel)... or maybe it was the other way around. A story that seemed to try and build some sort of tension between VU and Tonegal where I seriously doubt any exists.
More of a lazy comment rather then naive when you take into account my whole post. All I was trying to say was that there are great coaches at all levels of basketball and I'm sure there are NAIA coaches that can prepare, game manage and coach up players just as well as if not better then some D1 Power 5 Conference coaches.
Just because a coach is paid millions more then the NAIA coach doesn't mean they are a better X's & O's/Game Prep/Game Manager. D1 athletics is riddled with overpaid coaches that are mediocre coaches but the one thing they can do really well is recruit which is the life blood college athletics.
I still stand by my statement that Valpo should crush IWU if we played them. Not saying we'd beat them by 50 but game should get away from them by the end of the game we should get the bench players some minutes. But as I said anyone can beat anyone on the right night.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2017, 09:00:38 AMMore of a lazy comment rather then naive when you take into account my whole post. All I was trying to say was that there are great coaches at all levels of basketball and I'm sure there are NAIA coaches that can prepare, game manage and coach up players just as well as if not better then some D1 Power 5 Conference coaches.
Just because a coach is paid millions more then the NAIA coach doesn't mean they are a better X's & O's/Game Prep/Game Manager. D1 athletics is riddled with overpaid coaches that are mediocre coaches but the one they can do really well is recruit which is the life blood college athletics.
Excellent post. I am sorry if I misconstrued the intent of your original comment, and now that the intent has been clarified I can say that I completely agree with you that there are great coaches and bad coaches at all levels. There ARE NAIA coaches that are just as good or better "in game" coaches than the P5 guys and some of them are happy right at their level. Many times "coaching" is so much more than just the X's and O's and the higher the level the bigger the headaches. Others are looking to move up, but if they don't have the "network" connections or linger too long at one location the path to that D1 staff job or head position becomes difficult.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2017, 09:00:38 AM
I still stand by my statement that Valpo should crush IWU if we played them. Not saying we'd beat them by 50 but game should get away from them by the end of the game we should get the bench players some minutes. But as I said anyone can beat anyone on the right night.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. My problem is with the word "crush" which to me means a 30-40 point beat down. IWU is an elite NAIA program whose starting 5 are D1 roster worthy, but they don't have the depth that VU should have. They would be the best non-D1 team we have played in a long while... or maybe this is just my soft spot for the local NAIA little guy showing through.
Quote from: FWalum on August 22, 2017, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2017, 09:00:38 AM
I still stand by my statement that Valpo should crush IWU if we played them. Not saying we'd beat them by 50 but game should get away from them by the end of the game we should get the bench players some minutes. But as I said anyone can beat anyone on the right night.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. My problem is with the word "crush" which to me means a 30-40 point beat down. IWU is an elite NAIA program whose starting 5 are D1 roster worthy, but they don't have the depth that VU should have. They would be the best non-D1 team we have played in a long while... or maybe this is just my soft spot for the local NAIA little guy showing through.
I'd tend to agree with FWalum on this one. As he points out, IWU has several DI quality players, including the two incoming freshmen who were Indiana All Stars. Kyle Mangas of Warsaw had 47 in a regional game vs East Chicago Central. He and Grant Smith were both voted as Top 15 players in the state by the Indiana Basketball Coaches Association last spring. Forward Jacob Johnson visited Valpo, Butler and Ind State, and picked up a few DI offers before choosing IWU. Coach Tonagel has done a tremendous job with that program.
Quote from: zvillehaze on August 22, 2017, 03:30:19 PM
Quote from: FWalum on August 22, 2017, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2017, 09:00:38 AM
I still stand by my statement that Valpo should crush IWU if we played them. Not saying we'd beat them by 50 but game should get away from them by the end of the game we should get the bench players some minutes. But as I said anyone can beat anyone on the right night.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. My problem is with the word "crush" which to me means a 30-40 point beat down. IWU is an elite NAIA program whose starting 5 are D1 roster worthy, but they don't have the depth that VU should have. They would be the best non-D1 team we have played in a long while... or maybe this is just my soft spot for the local NAIA little guy showing through.
I'd tend to agree with FWalum on this one. As he points out, IWU has several DI quality players, including the two incoming freshmen who were Indiana All Stars. Kyle Mangas of Warsaw had 47 in a regional game vs East Chicago Central. He and Grant Smith were both voted as Top 15 players in the state by the Indiana Basketball Coaches Association last spring. Forward Jacob Johnson visited Valpo, Butler and Ind State, and picked up a few DI offers before choosing IWU. Coach Tonagel has done a tremendous job with that program.
My guess is that some of the kids Greg is getting are going because of the conservative Christian mission of their University. Here is their mission statement:
The primary value for Indiana Wesleyan University is Christlikeness. The challenge to follow Christ compels us to pursue a personal and professional lifestyle of Commitment, Leadership, Service, Stewardship, Innovation and Diversity.
To many, Valpo wouldn't qualify. At the same time several of Valpo players are at Valpo because of the Christian coaches and Christian atmosphere.
Quote from: zvillehaze on August 22, 2017, 03:30:19 PMI'd tend to agree with FWalum on this one. As he points out, IWU has several DI quality players, including the two incoming freshmen who were Indiana All Stars. Kyle Mangas of Warsaw had 47 in a regional game vs East Chicago Central. He and Grant Smith were both voted as Top 15 players in the state by the Indiana Basketball Coaches Association last spring. Forward Jacob Johnson visited Valpo, Butler and Ind State, and picked up a few DI offers before choosing IWU. Coach Tonagel has done a tremendous job with that program.
Since the MVC got brought into this; I had forgotten that last year Greg picked up Joel Okafor who was a 2015 3 star recruit out of Richmond High School, that had committed to Bradley, but left after his freshman year.
This is going to be a real concern for Mid-Major Conferences...
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/900387639387357184
Mid-Majors are already being screwed by the Power 5's only playing 'buy games'/neutral site Tourneys against mid-majors & the committee consistently disrespecting Mid-Majors.
Check out Texas Southern's Non-Conference schedule... :o
https://twitter.com/GonzagaGuru/status/902183157000110080
In the words of Frank Barone,...."Holy Crap". I would bet their athletics budget is netting a profit from these games. At least I hope so.
Meanwhile, any actual updates of 2017-2018 VU schedule? Wonder when MVC game dates will be public? Wondering which home games will fall on weekends.
It's not only the quality of the competition in those 13 OOC games, it's the grind. Check out the dates. 1 and sometimes only 2 days between games with travel in between. Tough way to earn a buck.
Quote from: crusadermoe on August 28, 2017, 10:49:51 AM
In the words of Frank Barone,...."Holy Crap". I would bet their athletics budget is netting a profit from these games. At least I hope so.
Meanwhile, any actual updates of 2017-2018 VU schedule? Wonder when MVC game dates will be public? Wondering which home games will fall on weekends.
Samford plays at the ARC on Nov. 21st
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/890235139082657792
I've heard we are going to play 2-3 Non-D1s at home :'( . I'm not sure if I can share the other schools we're playing but look for another Trinity game...
Lets just say switching conferences didn't help with the Non-Conference Scheduling this year. People will not be happy with the Non-Conference home game schedule this year...
Also the Samford & Southeastern Louisiana (2 of the 3 best home games) games are during the break for the students...
Lousy opponents and terrible venue access. I just don't get it.
Quote from: wh on August 28, 2017, 03:33:03 PM
Lousy opponents and terrible venue access. I just don't get it.
To be fair this was a pretty chaotic offseason with the Conference switch & also losing the Indiana State game and having to implement the Utah State game from MW/MVC challenge. I'm actually pretty please with the away game schedule (2 Big10 opponents near VU), but I was hoping for a better extra opponent on the Santa Clara return game trip. My only complaint is the lack of a good H-&-H series with anyone decent opponent (the ball state series is solid but we didn't replace the Rhode Island series with anyone good). The schedule has to be better next season & I'm sure it will be.
I'm please with Samford & Southeastern Louisiana games at home (they aren't big names but both will be strong teams next season (NOT happy they are during Thanksgiving break for the students >:( but what can you do)).
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902265769651707904
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902265933724450816
Officially coming out soon.
Definitely well worth the read.
https://twitter.com/enthusiadams/status/902285227028074496
https://m.facebook.com/enthusiadams/posts/1962595850681965
Thanks for the re-cap of games. I guess when you take an 11-day student break in November, you have just so many windows in your calendar.
I thought the MVC cracks down pretty hard on non D-1 scheduling? One would be ok.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 28, 2017, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on August 28, 2017, 10:49:51 AM
In the words of Frank Barone,...."Holy Crap". I would bet their athletics budget is netting a profit from these games. At least I hope so.
Meanwhile, any actual updates of 2017-2018 VU schedule? Wonder when MVC game dates will be public? Wondering which home games will fall on weekends.
Samford plays at the ARC on Nov. 21st
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/890235139082657792
I've heard we are going to play 2-3 Non-D1s at home :'( . I'm not sure if I can share the other schools we're playing but look for another Trinity game...
Lets just say switching conferences didn't help with the Non-Conference Scheduling this year. People will not be happy with the Non-Conference home game schedule this year...
Also the Samford & Southeastern Louisiana (2 of the 3 best home games) games are during the break for the students...
If the schedule is these games plus 2-3 non-D1s, this is without question the worst non-conference schedule in recent memory. Samford and Southeast Louisiana will not draw any interest, while non-D1 games (especially if more than one) do nothing to positively promote the program. I do not buy the excuse that changing conferences causes non-conference scheduling problems, unless it is with a team in the MVC that Valpo was already going to play. Furthermore, SIU-Edwardsville and UC-Riverside have no upside and accepting road games against low D1 teams only lessens the perceived value of the program.
If this is the schedule, I would expect an honest explanation from the athletic department/basketball program as to how this is not acceptable and will be remedied in the future. My guess, however, is that there will just be marketing promotion.
I thought MVC only allowed one nonD1 game a year?
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 28, 2017, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 28, 2017, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on August 28, 2017, 10:49:51 AM
In the words of Frank Barone,...."Holy Crap". I would bet their athletics budget is netting a profit from these games. At least I hope so.
Meanwhile, any actual updates of 2017-2018 VU schedule? Wonder when MVC game dates will be public? Wondering which home games will fall on weekends.
Samford plays at the ARC on Nov. 21st
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/890235139082657792
I've heard we are going to play 2-3 Non-D1s at home :'( . I'm not sure if I can share the other schools we're playing but look for another Trinity game...
Lets just say switching conferences didn't help with the Non-Conference Scheduling this year. People will not be happy with the Non-Conference home game schedule this year...
Also the Samford & Southeastern Louisiana (2 of the 3 best home games) games are during the break for the students...
If the schedule is these games plus 2-3 non-D1s, this is without question the worst non-conference schedule in recent memory. Samford and Southeast Louisiana will not draw any interest, while non-D1 games (especially if more than one) do nothing to positively promote the program. I do not buy the excuse that changing conferences causes non-conference scheduling problems, unless it is with a team in the MVC that Valpo was already going to play. Furthermore, SIU-Edwardsville and UC-Riverside have no upside and accepting road games against low D1 teams only lessens the perceived value of the program.
If this is the schedule, I would expect an honest explanation from the athletic department/basketball program as to how this is not acceptable and will be remedied in the future. My guess, however, is that there will just be marketing promotion.
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 28, 2017, 06:41:55 PMIf the schedule is these games plus 2-3 non-D1s, this is without question the worst non-conference schedule in recent memory.
I think it has to do with the conference shift. The women's non-conference schedule is equally bad.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/wbasketball/schedule/#.WaVvOMh97IW
vu72, agreed.
But if there was ever a time to have this type of Non-Conference schedule it would be this upcoming season, imo. As fans I don't think we have much to complain about (in terms of schedule) because we get to join a better Conference with a much more appealing & entertaining Conference schedule.
Keep in mind the Coaching Staff likely had to scrap a series or two because of the Conference switch & it caused scheduling issues for other games. Also this probably isn't the best year for Valpo to schedule a tough non-conference schedule. We have to prepare for 8 new teams next season in conference (other conference team need to prepare for just 1 new team). Not to mention we just graduated one of the best & most important classes in Valpo basketball history (AP, Jubril, Lexus, & Shane) and we're also implementing 7(!) new guys into the game rotation to varying degrees next year (3 of which are freshman).
We all can also look forward to the future Vanderbilt Series that may start during 2018-2019 season.
I am sorry, but the shift from one conference to another does not seem like a valid reason for an awful non-conference schedule. Why? Because the only things that shifting conferences would affect in your schedule from mid-November to late December are (1) the requirement (a good one) to play in the MVC-MWC challenge, and (2) previous agreements to play MVC teams in a non-conference schedule that are no longer valid. The "we have to prepare for 8 new teams this season" is a convenient, but not valid argument for a poor non-conference schedule. This argues that the coaching staff cannot do the job of preparing for 16 (or whatever) new teams. Additionally, the argument of "we'll have a tougher and more interesting conference schedule in the MVC" is essentially arguing "we did this really well, so it is OK that we did something else poorly". Furthermore, the schedule for the women's team is not a valid comparison because, frankly, they are a low D1 team right now and thus would have difference scheduling. Overall, these are convenient excuses for a poor job scheduling - but not acceptable reasons.
Please note that, in the past, I have strongly praised Valpo's scheduling (last season was great and others have also been good). Nearly everything in this potential schedule is multiple steps down from last year.
Lastly, consider the message that a schedule like this sends to potential recruits. Message during last season: Valpo is a strong program that played Kentucky, Final Four team Oregon and beat nationally ranked Rhode Island, as well as BYU and Alabama. Even with a disappointing postseason, that is a good story. Message this season: "Valpo is a strong program that played Northwestern and Purdue, along with several teams (some good and some not-so-good) that you may or may not have heard of along with very poor D1 teams and non D1 teams. We play in one of the best mid-major conferences in the country and hope to schedule our non-conference games consistent with the standards of that conference in the future". The first message says "come play at Valpo and play against top competition", while the second message says "come play at Valpo and we may play against top competition in the future".
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 29, 2017, 10:12:02 AMI am sorry, but the shift from one conference to another does not seem like a valid reason for an awful non-conference schedule.
A trash schedule is a trash schedule and this is potentially scary bad.
What groundwork does it lay for our 18-19 season? ??? Will Purdue or Northwestern be willing to play us again? So we have Edwardsville and Riverside as our known main home 2018 attractions? :banghead:
Looking forward we need use our past HL connections appropriately. We need to admit that turning our backs on Oakland, NKU, UIC and UWM so we can sign home and homes with 300 RPI unknowns and non D-1's, is not a winning strategy.
Quote from: justducky on August 29, 2017, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 29, 2017, 10:12:02 AMI am sorry, but the shift from one conference to another does not seem like a valid reason for an awful non-conference schedule.
A trash schedule is a trash schedule and this is potentially scary bad.
What groundwork does it lay for our 18-19 season? ??? Will Purdue or Northwestern be willing to play us again? So we have Edwardsville and Riverside as our known main home 2018 attractions? :banghead:
Looking forward we need use our past HL connections appropriately. We need to admit that turning our backs on Oakland, NKU, UIC and UWM so we can sign home and homes with 300 RPI unknowns and non D-1's, is not a winning strategy.
A Couple Thoughts:-Top 25 Teams: Purdue & Northwestern (they probably won't play us next year when we project to be stronger but that's what CBB. P5/BE dodge good mid-majors when they are strong. Thats not news to anyone here. It would be a miracle if either of them gave a return game in any series)
-Samford & Southeastern Louisiana are much better teams then people realize. Samford could be a Top 100-150 team next season and SEL will also surprise folks, because they have an electric little PG named Marlain Veal.
-Savannah Invitational we will play UNCW & Kent State. UNCW is a very good MM program but will probably be down next year. Kent State could be one of the better MAC teams
-Ball State is a solid In-State opponent
-California Trip: I'm not going to sugar coat it. It's disappointing. I wanted better then UC-Riverside, but we can only schedule who is available on that tight window for for the Santa Clara return game.
-SIUE was a fundraising/"business" decision for the STL area alumni & was planned WAY before joining the MVC (Arch Madness). Yes SIUE sucks and is disappointing to see us playing a team of that caliber on the road but I see the logic for the University and Athletics Department.
-Utah State is solid and is a different opponent. I'm looking forward to that game.
Yes the Non-Conference Home games suck next season (and 2 of the 3 best games are when students are off campus), but sometimes things just don't work out at the Mid-Major Level. Some may call the Conference switch a "convenient excuse" but it may just be a disappointing reality.
Quote from: justducky on August 29, 2017, 11:54:27 AM
Looking forward we need use our past HL connections appropriately. We need to admit that turning our backs on Oakland, NKU, UIC and UWM so we can sign home and homes with 300 RPI unknowns and non D-1's, is not a winning strategy.
The Horizon League relationships might not be great right now... at the coaching level I'm sure they are more then fine but everyone has a boss. OU is going to be really good next year but after next season they won't be nearly as good. UIC should be better with all talent they've recruited. UWM does not project to be very good. NKU has a pretty good team & I could see a series coming together (Coach Rags use to coach at NKU) if the administrations can get along. I actually think NKU will be one of the MVC expansion candidates if the conf expands to 12.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/schedule/#.WaXOYrJ96Uk
As intuited, the early slate is awful. But Nov. 24 on is formidable, albeit nearly exclusively away from the ARC.
Okay, so its two non-D1s instead of one (the exhibition doesn't matter). Not ideal, but not the end of the world. Remember that schedule negotiations are already starting for next season behind the scenes, so most of this was negotiated while we were a Horizon League team. I'd prefer zero non-D1s, but I'd also rather have scheduling flexibility next year than be saddled with a return game against a low-D1 team just for the sake of an extra D-1 game at home this year. And I can't blame VU for not wanting to go the guarantee route this year with all the other one-time costs involved in the transition.
A few thoughts:
-Utah State is still a better opponent than our best non-conference home game in most seasons.
-A non-conference schedule with Purdue and Northwestern (the latter of which is basically a Chicago game - there will be tickets available in Rosemont for as many VU fans that want to go), a Mountain West team at home, neutral site games vs. the defending CAA champ and perennial tourney team (UNCW) and a top MAC program (Kent), a traditional in-state rival (Ball State - who has nearly everyone back from a 21-win team last year), plus a solid WCC team can hardly be called weak or bad. Even the games people don't like aren't even that bad -- Samford is coming off a postseason appearance, SIUE gives us an OVC team at home for next season.
-More glass half-full: we have three non-conf. home games set for next season already: Ball State, SIUE and UCR, with no return games on the books (we'll be on the road for the MVC/MWC Challenge). That gives Valpo nearly a full year to try to land 3-4 quality home games for the non-conference slate as a full-time member of the Valley.
-Lastly, don't forget, we'll have the strongest and most appealing home conference schedule in school history this year: UNI, Illinois State, Indiana State, Missouri State, Bradley, SIU, Evansville, Loyola and Drake. Feel better now?
Evidently, we have been placed in Tier-3:
The Valley employs a three-tier system for nonconference scheduling where each conference team is given a set of guidelines from year to year based on the perceived strength of their team. Should a Valley team perhaps be worthy of at-large consideration, the conference expects the team to schedule a bit more ambitiously than a team that is in a rebuilding phase.
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/valley-commissioner-holds-orientation-for-valparaiso-coaches-and-administrators/article_eb1fbb2c-cb55-5059-aaaa-625ec520b606.html
I won't repeat my arguments on this awful non-conference schedule. But I will add that I frankly would prefer not to have return home games against UC-Riverside and SIU-E (who won a combined 11 games last year against D1 opponents).
QuoteBut I will add that I frankly would prefer not to have return home games against UC-Riverside and SIU-E (who won a combined 11 games last year against D1 opponents).
Two things:
1. 2016-2017 has no bearing on 2018-2019.
2. You're aware that if you want to rid the home non-conference schedules of non-D1 teams, teams like SIUE (OVC) and UCR (Big West) will need to be a part of that mix, right? Unless you think there is a line of P5, Big East and A-10 athletic directors outside the ARC waiting to come play us at our place, that is.
Look, scheduling good teams to the ARC will get easier in the Valley than in the HL, but we're still gonna need home games, guys.
Let's not be so dillisional to think the MVC gives us a path to at-large in the near term.
While it's great to hear opinions and concerns over scheduling, I'd argue the bigger picture is more important...W's in a season with several very tough road games.
It's great to have a strong ranking in _______, but it's far better to have a respectable W-L overall when combined with our new MVC opponents. We are really going to have a tough year ahead. Let's worry about national rankings (in whatever trendy chart is popular today) at a time the MVC can support at-large worthy teams.
Interesting to look at the MVC non-conference schedules released so far (Valpo's was #8) with an eye on the KenPom rankings - for bracketed tournaments, I forecast future opponents with wins/losses based on last year's KenPom.
Top-100 opponents
UNI - 5 (2 home, 2 neutral, 1 road)
Illinois State - 4 (1 neutral, 3 road)
Valpo - 3 (1 neutral, 2 road)
Loyola - 3 (1 neutral, 2 road)
Drake - 3 (1 home, 1 neutral, 1 road)
SIU - 2 (1 road, 1 neutral)
Bradley - 2 (2 road)
Missouri State - 1 (1 home)
Of the 4 home top-100 opponents, 2 are part of the MWC/MVC challenge.
Average KenPom of D-I Opponents
UNI - 134.6 (5 home, 5 road/neutral)
Illinois St. - 144.5 (4 home, 7 road/neutral)
Valpo - 156.3 (3 home, 8 road/neutral)
Drake - 176 (4 home, 8 road/neutral)
Loyola - 180.7 (5 home, 6 road/neutral)
Bradley - 197.3 (7 home, 5 road/neutral)
Missouri State - 200.3 (5 home, 7 road/neutral)
SIU - 211.1 (6 home, 6 road/neutral)
Average KenPom of D-I Home Opponents
Valpo - 175.7 (5 total home games, 2 non D-I)
UNI - 194.8 (7 total home games, 2 non D-I)
Missouri State - 210.6 (6 total home games, 1 non D-I)
Illinois State - 222 (5 total home games, 1 non D-I)
Drake - 225.8 (5 total home games, 1 non D-I)
Loyola - 242.2 (6 total home games, 1 non D-I)
Bradley - 244.4 (8 total home games, 1 non D-I)
SIU - 277.2 (7 total home games, 1 non D-I)
https://twitter.com/coachlottich/status/902663585654087680
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 29, 2017, 06:48:16 PM
Let's not be so dillisional to think the MVC gives us a path to at-large in the near term.
While it's great to hear opinions and concerns over scheduling, I'd argue the bigger picture is more important...W's in a season with several very tough road games.
It's great to have a strong ranking in _______, but it's far better to have a respectable W-L overall when combined with our new MVC opponents. We are really going to have a tough year ahead. Let's worry about national rankings (in whatever trendy chart is popular today) at a time the MVC can support at-large worthy teams.
You may be right that it's a decent schedule on balance, but as a season ticket holder x 5 the OOC home schedule has special significance of its own. Hosting up to 3 non D-1 opponents and some low-level D-1's when the students are out has terrible entertainment value any way you slice it.
I don't want to sound overly pessimistic before the season even begins and I hope I'm wrong, but I fear that this year's version of the "Why don't the students and community support the Crusaders like they used to?" thread could be pretty lively.
Quote from: wh on August 29, 2017, 08:17:14 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 29, 2017, 06:48:16 PM
Let's not be so dillisional to think the MVC gives us a path to at-large in the near term.
While it's great to hear opinions and concerns over scheduling, I'd argue the bigger picture is more important...W's in a season with several very tough road games.
It's great to have a strong ranking in _______, but it's far better to have a respectable W-L overall when combined with our new MVC opponents. We are really going to have a tough year ahead. Let's worry about national rankings (in whatever trendy chart is popular today) at a time the MVC can support at-large worthy teams.
You may be right that it's a decent schedule on balance, but as a season ticket holder x 5 the OOC home schedule has special significance of its own. Hosting up to 3 non D-1 opponents and some low-level D-1's when the students are out has terrible entertainment value any way you slice it.
I don't want to sound overly pessimistic before the season even begins and I hope I'm wrong, but I fear that this year's version of the "Why don't the students and community support the Crusaders like they used to?" thread could be pretty lively.
Solid point, I live too far away to be a season ticket holder. Hadn't thought from that perspective. I suppose my bigger concern has always been in conference play. 90% of the games I attend are in conference.
My first post on this board was my comment last year that I thought that the schedule was really good for many different reasons. I can't get as excited this year, but I'll still be sitting in the fourth row of each home game.
At least the Non-D1 drag will be behind us by mid-November. Problem with that is that it will be hard to generate excitement out of the gate. Ideally, the Samford and SE LA games are interesting and are wins so that excitement finally starts to build for the Utah State game (which is the schedule highlight). But then the team is out-of-sight and out-of-mind for the entire month of December so that any gained excitement is then lost. Hopefully, it can start to build again during the early part of the conference schedule.
I'm not going to second guess the folks doing the schedule, because I know they likely work harder, and are more frustrated, than we can imagine. But whatever the problems were/are, they need to be fixed or overcome next year, or people simply won't come to the games, regardless of how well the team does.
I'm sure that ML and the staff "gets it", and are working hard.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902625759356968962
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902625920418242561
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902626407095967744
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902626685853593601
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902627060451078144
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902627459992039424
As Matt has stated on numerous occasions, "This team will get better as the season progresses" That's code for "we've got talent but need to get the freshman acclimated and the senior guys playing as a unit" Practice can only get you so far.
So the cup cakes serve a much needed purpose. I would guess the schedule is to some extent by design and to some extent caused by the league shift. I would think that much effort will go and will be driven more so than this year by the Valley who will recognize our potential next year of being an at-large team.
I have to agree with Pgmado and vu72. This schedule was built to accommodate all of the unknowns on our roster for this season. The two non-D1 games to start hurt attendance, but they'll be good for seeing what lineups/combos work together best in game situations going into Samford and SE Louisiana and the rest of the non-conference schedule. I mean, as I've said numerous years, our schedule is built to work guys into the lineup/games, not just to boost the win-loss record of the head coach. I've never felt critical about how Valpo Basketball schedules games, when I look at the team that we'll have on the floor in the coming season. Look at how many new Crusaders we have this season, either as transfers or true freshmen, compared to what we have returning from last season's roster. Yeah, I admit, I'll probably lose interest in watching the second half of the two non-D1 games early, but knowing these games will be more for in-game evaluation of combos and who's ready to be key cogs to this season help me grasp why our schedule doesn't favor giddy fan optimism for the season, but next year and in 2019-2020, we'll have reason to be "jumping out of the gym" with excitement for the teams we'll have, and the fear we may strike into our MVC opponents.
Terrible home slate for non con. I get there are challenges for scheduling....going to be a boring december in the arc.
I get a kick out of comments made about schedules. Last year with a "good" non-conference schedule attendance was down but everyone raved about the list of opponents. This year with a poor non-conference schedule people are unhappy and some appear to have no interest in going to those games.
Should the powers that be try to schedule to best serve the kind of team we expect to have, or should they schedule like Oakland has done in the past, or maybe like IPFW having to play both IU and Kentucky on the road? It appears that ML and Coach have almost a no win situation with some people.
Many mid-majors are having problems scheduling this year and besides, we just got into the MVC. Let's give this thing some time.
I'm telling you, we need to start viewing/promoting the Northwestern game like we would one of the United Center games. Yes, NU is the home team, but if Valpo wants to bring an ARC full of fans to that game, we'll be able to do so.
Yes, we have a lot of road games in December. Three are in easy driving distance, however, and one is practically a neutral site (sorry, NU is not going to garner much home-court advantage at Allstate Arena. There's a reason why DePaul finally left.)
Unrelated: I found it amusing that Northwestern's next game after playing us in DePaul's old house is against... DePaul, at the Blue Demons' new arena.
Quote from: valpo64 on August 30, 2017, 11:48:00 AM
I get a kick out of comments made about schedules. Last year with a "good" non-conference schedule attendance was down but everyone raved about the list of opponents. This year with a poor non-conference schedule people are unhappy and some appear to have no interest in going to those games.
Should the powers that be try to schedule to best serve the kind of team we expect to have, or should they schedule like Oakland has done in the past, or maybe like IPFW having to play both IU and Kentucky on the road? It appears that ML and Coach have almost a no win situation with some people.
Many mid-majors are having problems scheduling this year and besides, we just got into the MVC. Let's give this thing some time.
Here Here
The Valpo Student radio show breaks down the Valpo & George Washington Schedules and compares them. Link is below if you want to give it a listen. (Start at 07:30 if you only want to hear about Valpo's schedule)
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YpJkmmwEYAKj
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/902973716585472000
Side Note: One of the students considers the A10 a high major league. I personally disagree. In my opinion the A10 is still a mid-major conference but its one of the better conferences that can as of right now consistently be a mutli-bid Mid-Major league.
Quote from: valpo64 on August 30, 2017, 11:48:00 AM
I get a kick out of comments made about schedules. Last year with a "good" non-conference schedule attendance was down but everyone raved about the list of opponents. This year with a poor non-conference schedule people are unhappy and some appear to have no interest in going to those games.
Should the powers that be try to schedule to best serve the kind of team we expect to have, or should they schedule like Oakland has done in the past, or maybe like IPFW having to play both IU and Kentucky on the road? It appears that ML and Coach have almost a no win situation with some people.
Many mid-majors are having problems scheduling this year and besides, we just got into the MVC. Let's give this thing some time.
Scheduling is extremely difficult for Mid-Majors. I have talked to Jon Coffman at IPFW about this and I really feel for these coaches. How was IPFW rewarded for its victory over IU last year... they were shunned by almost everyone of consequence. Here is their non-conference home schedule. 4 NCAA DI opponents - Delaware State (Adolph Rupp Classic), Detroit Mercy, SIUE, Stetson. 4 Non-NCAA DI including Defiance and Olivet (NCAA DIII) along with IU Kokomo and Concordia Michigan (NAIA DII). All Non-Con DI games were moved to the Memorial Coliseum so no one can say they didn't want to play in the "High School Gym" Gates Center.
AT OAKLAND
HOME VS DEFIANCE DIII
HOME VS DELAWARE STATE
AT UIC
AT KENTUCKY
AT EAST TENNESSEE STATE
HOME VS DETROIT MERCY
IU KOKOMO NAIA DII
HOME VS SIUE
AT AKRON
HOME VS STETSON
AT INDIANA
NEUTRAL VS LIBERTY
NEUTRAL VS LOUISIANA TECH OR ALABAMA STATE
OLIVET DIII
CONCORDIA (MICH.) NAIA DII
Must listen Union Street Hoops Podcast! Paul did a interview with the Forbes writer who broke the story about HL suing VU & MVC. Also does another interview with Luke Gore breaking down the schedule and why the schedule is the way it is.
http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_bcec8bec-8dcb-11e7-8f86-5b81f5440cce.html
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/903012267758944256
Quote from: VU2014 on August 30, 2017, 08:59:46 AM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902625759356968962
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902625920418242561
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902626407095967744
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902626685853593601
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902627060451078144
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/902627459992039424
Is there a way that you can post tweets without all the duplicates?
Enjoyed the podcast. I think both Coach Gore and Paul described the positives of scheduling non-DI teams. They don't hurt RPI and they give a great opportunity to smaller schools to compete against DI players in a big-time environment.
Anyone complaining about the schedule should listen, as Coach Gore explained in detail how difficult putting a schedule together can be.
so we're playing Robert Morris on 11/2... Should I ASSUME that this represents the Eagles of RM -Chicago? I looked at all four Robert Morris schedules (CHICAGO, PEORIA, SPRINGFIELD, PITTSBURGH)...and we are not listed on any of their schedules... is there a 5th Robert Morris I don't know about?
Quote from: talksalot on August 31, 2017, 03:24:51 PM
so we're playing Robert Morris on 11/2... Should I ASSUME that this represents the Eagles of RM -Chicago? I looked at all four Robert Morris schedules (CHICAGO, PEORIA, SPRINGFIELD, PITTSBURGH)...and we are not listed on any of their schedules... is there a 5th Robert Morris I don't know about?
I believe you are correct.
I think that game is technically just an exhibition game though.
in that case, the Eagles may be a little tired... a little... they take on the Bradley Braves on November 1st in Peoria. and we get them on 2nd. (bradley is on their schedule, we are not)
A couple thoughts from the podcast. When Paul and Coach Gore were talking about the Horizon Leagues Conference scheduling you could almost hear the frustration in his voice. The Horizon League was terrible not only for travel but also for the fans and the players. It was literally all over the place.
Paul mentioned that he heard the MVC Conference schedules should be out soon (around Labor Day). One thing I personally enjoy about th MVC scheduling is that we will actually have the chance to play in Saturday's!! The Non-Conference home games might not be the best next season but the Conference games will be so much better then what we had in the Horizon. Something I'm looking forward to.
Yes, Friday games for ESPN was a funky night of the week. And townies had HS games to attend in Indiana.
The challenges in putting together a schedule on our level are legit. There are many reasons, covered at length on this board.
But that doesn't really matter to me, as a fan who pays good money to attend these games, and pays more to avoid the awful parking situation the University has put themselves in. I pay the same to see Western Ohio A&M Tech State as I do for Rhode Island. I accept as a season ticket holder the trade off there. But there's no trade off this year. This leaves me, as someone who lives about 30 min away, in the mindset of potentially not renewing my season tickets and just grabbing some GA seats to the 3-5 conference games that really interest me.
I think this really saps a lot of the momentum we could have had in local interest gained from the conference move.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on September 01, 2017, 09:32:13 AM
The challenges in putting together a schedule on our level are legit. There are many reasons, covered at length on this board.
But that doesn't really matter to me, as a fan who pays good money to attend these games, and pays more to avoid the awful parking situation the University has put themselves in. I pay the same to see Western Ohio A&M Tech State as I do for Rhode Island. I accept as a season ticket holder the trade off there. But there's no trade off this year. This leaves me, as someone who lives about 30 min away, in the mindset of potentially not renewing my season tickets and just grabbing some GA seats to the 3-5 conference games that really interest me.
I think this really saps a lot of the momentum we could have had in local interest gained from the conference move.
Severely discount non-D-I games?
Free Admission with a Valpo Schools (and/or Chesterton, BG, MT, WT et al.) ID to non D-I games. Get em hooked before they understand what a crappy opponent is on the court.
Another thought is a reduced season ticket package with possible discounts , include some of the "bad" games with the good, or whatever. Maybe some creative thinking as to season ticket programs should be looked at in depth in order to improve overall attendance, as many schools do. I must admit that this coming season is a new experience for VU and we should be open to some new creative thinking now that we are in the MVC with respect to markekting, season ticket sales, etc.
I'm not going to lie I'd personally be a little disappointed with the Non-D1s if I was a season ticket holder.
Just purely from a fan perspective I will be more interested in watching the Non-d1 games this season than I was last season just because this is a completely new era of Valpo Basketball. Last year we knew the core of the team (AP, Shane, Jubril, Lexus, Tevonn, etc) & we somewhat knew what to expect so there wasn't much intrigue for those particular games against lesser competition.
But this team has a new core to the roster & the only known player is Tevonn. I will be watching these games much more closely because we really don't know what to expect from guys like Joe & Bakari, who we are all hoping can be impact guys of this team. It will be interesting to see the lineups the coaching staff will put out. Many question marks on this team. Will Micah, Jay & Smits take the next step? Also I want to see how Markus Golder & the Freshman look. Against these non-d1s you'd hope & think the freshman should get some playing time, which will give us our first look at this new team.
I will personally be excited to watch those games because it will be our first look at this new era of Valpo Basketball. From a coaching perspective I assume its pretty nice to have these games to begin the season to build team chemistry on the court & see how the new guys react to in game play.
I don't think these games take away from the momentum or local interest of Valpo's first season in the Valley at all.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on September 01, 2017, 09:32:13 AMThe challenges in putting together a schedule on our level are legit. There are many reasons, covered at length on this board. But that doesn't really matter to me, as a fan who pays good money to attend these games, and pays more to avoid the awful parking situation the University has put themselves in. I pay the same to see Western Ohio A&M Tech State as I do for Rhode Island. I accept as a season ticket holder the trade off there. But there's no trade off this year. This leaves me, as someone who lives about 30 min away, in the mindset of potentially not renewing my season tickets and just grabbing some GA seats to the 3-5 conference games that really interest me. I think this really saps a lot of the momentum we could have had in local interest gained from the conference move.
Goooo WOAMTSU! I think their mascot is an Elephino.
Good acronum.
Maybe start a new thread for hardest team and college to print on sweatshirts. IUPUFW Mastodons is the gold standard so far. :o
Our past schedules have to have other good candidates.
I think our Horizon League "replacement" IUPUI (AKA: OOEE-POOEE) takes the cake. ;D
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on September 01, 2017, 09:32:13 AM
The challenges in putting together a schedule on our level are legit. There are many reasons, covered at length on this board.
But that doesn't really matter to me, as a fan who pays good money to attend these games, and pays more to avoid the awful parking situation the University has put themselves in. I pay the same to see Western Ohio A&M Tech State as I do for Rhode Island. I accept as a season ticket holder the trade off there. But there's no trade off this year. This leaves me, as someone who lives about 30 min away, in the mindset of potentially not renewing my season tickets and just grabbing some GA seats to the 3-5 conference games that really interest me.
I think this really saps a lot of the momentum we could have had in local interest gained from the conference move.
I agree with this. The best game at the ARC before MVC starts is Utah State, who went 14-17 last year. The MVC also has several teams I won't pay to see. Buying single game tickets seems like the way to go this year.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/904025310672322560
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 01, 2017, 04:36:28 PM
Good acronum.
Is that when you see so many initials you get numb?
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 01, 2017, 09:38:28 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on September 01, 2017, 09:32:13 AM
The challenges in putting together a schedule on our level are legit. There are many reasons, covered at length on this board.
But that doesn't really matter to me, as a fan who pays good money to attend these games, and pays more to avoid the awful parking situation the University has put themselves in. I pay the same to see Western Ohio A&M Tech State as I do for Rhode Island. I accept as a season ticket holder the trade off there. But there's no trade off this year. This leaves me, as someone who lives about 30 min away, in the mindset of potentially not renewing my season tickets and just grabbing some GA seats to the 3-5 conference games that really interest me.
I think this really saps a lot of the momentum we could have had in local interest gained from the conference move.
I agree with this. The best game at the ARC before MVC starts is Utah State, who went 14-17 last year. The MVC also has several teams I won't pay to see. Buying single game tickets seems like the way to go this year.
My relatives will buy season tickets but I see your point. I would think about buying single game tickets and missing the non-Div. 1 games. Of course I would see them (non-Div. 1) on the computer/HDMI connection to my TV.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 01, 2017, 09:38:28 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on September 01, 2017, 09:32:13 AM
The challenges in putting together a schedule on our level are legit. There are many reasons, covered at length on this board.
But that doesn't really matter to me, as a fan who pays good money to attend these games, and pays more to avoid the awful parking situation the University has put themselves in. I pay the same to see Western Ohio A&M Tech State as I do for Rhode Island. I accept as a season ticket holder the trade off there. But there's no trade off this year. This leaves me, as someone who lives about 30 min away, in the mindset of potentially not renewing my season tickets and just grabbing some GA seats to the 3-5 conference games that really interest me.
I think this really saps a lot of the momentum we could have had in local interest gained from the conference move.
I agree with this. The best game at the ARC before MVC starts is Utah State, who went 14-17 last year. The MVC also has several teams I won't pay to see. Buying single game tickets seems like the way to go this year.
I've already said the OOC home scheduling sucks, and that I think it will negatively affect attendance. That said, it doesn't excuse us diehards from being there for every painful minute. Think or thin, good or bad, exciting or not, our support is unwavering.
Quote from: wh on September 02, 2017, 05:37:21 PM
I've already said the OOC home scheduling sucks, and that I think it will negatively affect attendance. That said, it doesn't excuse us diehards from being there for every painful minute. Think or thin, good or bad, exciting or not, our support is unwavering.
I completely agree the OOC home schedule isn't great but I don't think the Non-D1s will be as painful or hard to watch as they normally would be because there are so many new guys & question marks with this team next season, we'll actually have something interesting to watch for. Last season the game vs Trinity was just absolutely brutal to watch because we knew the Core of our team was proven/strong and there was just a blatant "tune-up" game for better competition down the road. You could tell the guys weren't excited to play them & it showed on the court in the first half.
Next season we have 2 very talented guys that sat out an entire season & are probably just itching to get in the game again & we also have 4 guys that have never played D1 NCAA basketball before so their adrenalin/emotion will probably be through the roof.
80% of the active roster will be underclassman next season with a lot to prove even if its against non-d1s. Maybe I'm looking for a way to see this as a "glass half full" here but I'll probably be pretty into the game when we're playing even Trinity & North Park just because we as fans have never seen this new core of players before & we don't know what to expect.
Since when does who we play determine one's support for the team? Especially when it it a young, inexperienced team, Valpo nation fan support is even more important...Come on Valpo fans!!!
2015-16 Final KenPom Ranks for 2016-17 D1 Home Opponents
Southern Utah - 342
Coppin State - 333
Ball State - 155
Rhode Island - 82
Indiana State - 168
Santa Clara - 244
Chicago State - 347
Non-Conf Average: 238.7
Oakland - 79
Detroit - 172
Green Bay - 127
UIC - 335
Wright State - 146
Northern Kentucky - 255
Cleveland St - 289
Youngstown St - 281
Milwaukee - 114
Conf Average - 199.7
Overall Average - 216.8
2016-17 Final KenPom Ranks for 2017-18 D1 Home Opponents
Southeastern Louisiana - 231
Samford - 166
Utah State - 130
Non-conf Average - 175.6
Illinois St - 49
Indiana St - 199
Loyola - 97
Bradley - 217
Drake - 258
Southern Illinois - 150
Missouri State - 134
Evansville - 154
Northern Iowa - 169
Conf Average - 158.5
Overall Average - 162.8
Big difference from this year and last year rpi schedule is the Rhode Island home game and the conference schedule.
ML2 makes a good point. The Non-Conference home schedule really isn't that bad from a RPI & Kenpom perspective. The Non-D1s don't impact the RPI. Strategically its not a bad Non-Conference schedule.
My only issue is that its only 3 D1 home games & 2 of those 3 home games are when students are off campus & at home for break. It really hurts the atmosphere when the students aren't there and its not a good look on TV. Side Note: Thank goodness we don't have to deal with the Horizon League's consistently pathetic scheduling of big rivalry games when students are off campus anymore. I feel like every VU vs OU game recently was when students were off campus for both schools.
I'm ok with the schedule this season for various reason that I've said before but I hope the OOC home schedule will be a little stronger next season. I'm sure it will be.
2018-2019 Return Games or Potential Start of a New Series:
-Pencil in a Non-D1 opponent (I don't mind 1 non-d1. It offers VU a home "tune-up" game and doesn't impact our RPI)
-SIUE :( (maybe they'll step it up in the OVC by next season)
-UC-Riverside
-Ball State (Going to be a good in-state rival game. It will be a Hazen vs Hazen Brother Matchup which will be interesting to watch)
-Maybe Vanderbilt (as part of Bryce's Buyout the series is required. A Bryce homecoming game vs a projected good Valpo Team will be standing room only packed ARC and electric environment. We don't know when the series will start though)
Quote from: VU2014 on September 03, 2017, 03:47:49 PM
-Maybe Vanderbilt (as part of Bryce's Buyout the series is required. A Bryce homecoming game vs a projected good Valpo Team will be standing room only packed ARC and electric environment. We don't know when the series will start though)
This is the first I have heard of this.
Quote from: wh on September 03, 2017, 05:29:04 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 03, 2017, 03:47:49 PM
-Maybe Vanderbilt (as part of Bryce's Buyout the series is required. A Bryce homecoming game vs a projected good Valpo Team will be standing room only packed ARC and electric environment. We don't know when the series will start though)
This is the first I have heard of this.
Mark LaBarbera I believe mentioned it in his appearance on Paul's podcast Union Street Hoops. I know for sure he went on the record with it in a Q & A with Michael Osipoff.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847994502841348096
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847994193628758017
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847993913600352256
Nice!
Meanwhile... TAMU-CC ? Texas A&M University at Corpus Christi. Has to be in the Top 10 "acronyms". :)
Look for some MVC schedules to drop today.
Paul raises some interesting questions.
I will likely have zero major complaints about the Conference schedule this year because we already won by upgrading conferences and joining the Missouri Valley Conference.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/905084600229212160
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/905084745402417152
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/905085003008278532
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/905085271187886081
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/905085617108897795
SIU SCHEDULE IS OUT
They start at UNI on 12/28... and have a home game on New Years Eve with Drake
Saturday, January 6th, At Valparaiso
Saturday, February 3rd, At Carbondale
I think I'm going to start a "Valpo Dumb" topic, highlighting areas where the university is simply too stupid to get out of its own way relative to maximizing the potential of its men's basketball program.
The first one we've already discussed - eliminating all parking adjacent to its basketball venue. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Classic dumb.
Here's another "Valpo Dumb" I just discovered. The MVC Tournament is March 1-4. So, when does Valpo's spring break begin? You guessed it - that very weekend. 7 of the other 9 schools - SIU, Illinois State, Indiana State, Drake, Missouri State, Bradley, and Northern Iowa - all begin Spring Break the following weekend. So, of course, their students will be in full force at the tournament, while we will be lucky to have 10 straggler students there. And get this, every university in the conference but Valpo has a 1-week Spring Break.
These are such "low hanging fruit" issues a 6th grader could figure them out. Wake up, sleepy heads at 1700 Chapel Drive. :-[
I don't know, but I'd assume the academic schedule was set before this invite happened? Not that it would've made a difference at all.
Should start a new thread for the MVC schedule. It just came out on facebook.
I expected to play FOUR Saturday road games. That makes sense. NIU on a Saturday will be brutal.
But WHY are we playing just TWO Saturday home games. It looks like we volunteered to host TWO SUNDAY games...? wtf
I don't see this administration ever changing the breaks to help out Valpo Basketball.
I'm sure it might be a logistical nightmare changing student/faculty breaks around. I'm sure certain events & activities are planned out well ahead of time that run into breaks
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/905115909060251648
This team will be challenged in December with six away games and no home games for more than a month (11/28-12/31). I don't mind since students aren't around much of that month anyway. Also, I notice Valpo apparently has made an exception in an old policy of never scheduling games during final exam week by adding Northwestern on the 14th.
Just seeing the opponent names on the conference schedule is yet another reminder how great this move is! 18 games against quality opponents, and I'm excited about all of them!
Road Trip fans....couple of Saturday options; weather permitting...
Jan 13th,
it's about 340 miles from the Chapel to the UNI Dome
and two weeks later...
it's about 150 miles from the Chapel to the Illinois State Arena on January 27th
and the following week...
it's about 337 miles from the Chapel to the Southern Illinois Arena on February 3rd
and to close out the regular season
it's about 370 miles from the Chapel to the Drake ticket office on February 24th
Not including the game on December 9th, because everyone knows "You can't get to Muncie from here"...
Which Conference Games are you guys most looking forward to next season?
I have to say that the Sunday/Wednesday format works well for me. I will have many fewer conflicts. It may make my home life a bit less harmonious as the fewer conflicts means the more evenings I'll be out of the house. My arguments that distance makes the heart grow fonder are not well-received.
Quote from: M on September 05, 2017, 12:14:14 PM
I don't know, but I'd assume the academic schedule was set before this invite happened?
Of course... ::)
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
Which Conference Games are you guys most looking forward to next season?
In general, I'm excited by all of them, but the Loyola game has an interesting quality to it in that we get to see how much they've improved as a result of better competition and recruiting potential. Even when they weren't considered great in terms of overall record, our contests with them were never a given. How we do against them will tell us how much work we have to do to get to the top of the Valley. With resounding wins (especially with Valpo rebuilding and Loyola peaking) it'll be the opportunity to remind the MVC that Loyola was the wrong HL team to have picked back then--a refrain from the MVC fans that Ramblers are probably tired of hearing.
I'm excited for the entire conference schedule as well. As wh put it, every single game is of high quality. For those of us who've been following this program since its earliest days in Division I, it's still a rush to see those names. Many of these programs are ones that we couldn't even dream of competing with 30 years ago, now we're conference mates with them. It's really, really cool.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on September 06, 2017, 02:50:57 PM
I'm excited for the entire conference schedule as well. As wh put it, every single game is of high quality. For those of us who've been following this program since its earliest days in Division I, it's still a rush to see those names. Many of these programs are ones that we couldn't even dream of competing with 30 years ago, now we're conference mates with them. It's really, really cool.
Agreed. Attendance for conference games should increase dramatically, assuming Valpo spends a few $ on marketing to let fans know they're playing Ill State or UNI, not YSU or NKU.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 07, 2017, 09:51:34 AMAgreed. Attendance for conference games should increase dramatically, assuming Valpo spends a few $ on marketing to let fans know they're playing Ill State or UNI, not YSU or NKU.
Yep. Now if only we had some parking within hiking distance of the ARC, everything would be good! ;)
A competitive team with a Vashil or Hammick hammer also helps fill the seats.
I really hope we have a good team for our first year in the mvc. I think we will be competitive but I would have loved to seen some of our past teams in the MVC...... :twocents:
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 07, 2017, 09:51:34 AM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on September 06, 2017, 02:50:57 PM
I'm excited for the entire conference schedule as well. As wh put it, every single game is of high quality. For those of us who've been following this program since its earliest days in Division I, it's still a rush to see those names. Many of these programs are ones that we couldn't even dream of competing with 30 years ago, now we're conference mates with them. It's really, really cool.
Agreed. Attendance for conference games should increase dramatically, assuming Valpo spends a few $ on marketing to let fans know they're playing Ill State or UNI, not YSU or NKU.
I always find it interesting when I continue to remind St Louis sports fans that SLU is no longer in the MVC in conversations about Valpo joining the MVC. I suppose a lot of that is due to the Valley being headquartered in St Louis. When you make changes it takes a huge win in conference or just a lot of time for fans to know what competition you are playing against. It will be a while before Northern Indiana sports fans know Valpo is in the the Valley.
Athlon's PreSeason magazine is on the racks.
They forecast;
1 - Mo State (player of the year - Alize Johnson)
2 - UNI
3 - Loyola
4- Illinois St.
5- Valpo
Forgot the rest
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 07, 2017, 09:26:40 PM
Athlon's PreSeason magazine is on the racks.
They forecast;
1 - Mo State (player of the year - Alize Johnson)
2 - UNI
3 - Loyola
4- Illinois St.
5- Valpo
Forgot the rest
As expected given the loss of Alec, but I doubt they fully considered the quality of the transfers and freshmen that Valpo is adding. I'd be surprised if Valpo isn't at least top 3. As vu72 has pointed out, Bakari is a stud and Burton could be a POY contender. The guys will have a chip on the shoulder after predictions like this.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 07, 2017, 09:42:03 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 07, 2017, 09:26:40 PM
Athlon's PreSeason magazine is on the racks.
They forecast;
1 - Mo State (player of the year - Alize Johnson)
2 - UNI
3 - Loyola
4- Illinois St.
5- Valpo
Forgot the rest
As expected given the loss of Alec, but I doubt they fully considered the quality of the transfers and freshmen that Valpo is adding. I'd be surprised if Valpo isn't at least top 3. As vu72 has pointed out, Bakari is a stud and Burton could be a POY contender. The guys will have a chip on the shoulder after predictions like this.
The magazine has given Tevonn some props, predicting that he will be First Team All conference.
A few National TV broadcasts announced against the Big 10 teams.
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball/status/906199264249962496
Anyone know when the MVC will announce its broadcast schedule? I wondering how many ESPN2, ESPNU, & Comcast SportsNet Chicago games will be broadcast next season.
The MVC signed a 24 game broadcast package with the CSN back in 2015
http://www.mvc-sports.com/news/2015/10/2/IMPORTED_STORY_8284_131414122691207387.aspx?path=mbball
MVC ANNOUNCES 24-GAME BASKETBALL PACKAGE
"ST. LOUIS -- The Missouri Valley Conference will clear a 24-game men's basketball television package on FOX Sports Midwest and Comcast SportsNet Chicago in 2015-16, Commissioner Doug Elgin announced today.
The Valley, with Niles Media Group of Kansas City serving as its production company, has worked in conjunction with FOX Sports Midwest -- along with its sister regional cable outlets FOX Sports Indiana and FOX Sports Kansas City -- and Comcast SportsNet Chicago to clear the high-definition telecasts.
ESPN3 -- ESPN's digital network -- will also distribute the telecasts outside the league's five-state footprint on FOX Sports Midwest and Comcast SportsNet Chicago.
The telecasts will also be streamed on FOX Sports GO within the FOX Sports Midwest footprint.
"For our regional television network, we made the decision in the spring of 1993 to bring our operation in-house, and through the years, our product has flourished as a direct result from our relationships with FOX Sports Midwest and Comcast SportsNet Chicago," said Elgin, who is in his 28th year with the Conference.
"This year, 18 of our regular-season league men's basketball telecasts will be shown by our regional sports network partners. And it's incredible to me that this will be the 20th-consecutive year that our games will be distributed by FOX Sports Midwest," said Elgin.
"Finding consistent programming windows that make sense for our teams and our fans is challenging, and when you factor professional content into the equation, it can be a daunting task," said Jack R. Watkins, MVC Associate Commissioner. "It's through support shown by Jack Donovan (senior vice president/general manager) at FOX Sports and Phil Bedella (vice president/general manager) at Comcast SportsNet Chicago that we continually achieve our objectives."
"FOX and Comcast have been unwavering in their commitment to the league, and their involvement continues to spread our 109-year-old brand," he added.
The nine-week telecast package, which features contests on Saturday afternoons and Tuesday-Wednesday nights, begins on Wednesday, Dec. 30, with Southern Illinois visiting Loyola at Gentile Arena in Chicago, Ill., in a 7 p.m. Central telecast.
The men's basketball regular-season package in January features Evansville at Missouri State (Jan. 2), Illinois State at Indiana State (Jan. 9), Bradley at Loyola (Jan. 13), Loyola at UNI (Jan. 16), UNI at Illinois State (Jan. 23), Drake at Illinois State (Jan. 26), UNI at Bradley (Jan. 27) and Indiana State at Loyola (Jan. 30).
In the month of February, telecasts include Evansville at UNI (Feb. 3), Missouri State at Evansville (Feb. 6), Drake at Southern Illinois (Feb. 13), Evansville atDrake (Feb. 17), Southern Illinois at Evansville (Feb. 20), Evansville at Bradley(Feb. 23) and Southern Illinois at IllinoisState (Feb. 24).
In addition to the 16-game regular-season package produced by the Conference, FOX Sports Midwest and Comcast SportsNet Chicago will also clear two games produced by Cox Communications of Wichita -- Wichita State at Missouri State (Jan. 13) and Southern Illinois at Wichita State (Feb. 3).
"Balancing availability of programming that appeals to local fan bases and recognizing the brand of a team that has reached at least the round of NCAA Sweet 16 in two of the last three seasons, FOX Sports Midwest and Comcast SportsNet Chicago will clear these telecasts to provide additional exposure beyond the competing teams' respective footprints," said Watkins.
"We are grateful that Mark Ewing (programming manager) and Cox Communications will permit these telecasts to be distributed on FOX Sports Midwest, FOX Sports Indiana and Comcast SportsNet Chicago," said Watkins.
Coverage of the 2016 State Farm MVC Men's Basketball Championship -- the league's 26th consecutive postseason tournament in St. Louis -- on March 3-6 will feature nine telecasts, including the title tilt on CBS Sports on March 6 -- marking the 11th-straight year the championship game airs on CBS.
Both opening-round games on March 3, and the four quarterfinal games on March 4, will air on FOX Sports Midwest, FOX Sports Indiana, FOX Sports Kansas City, Comcast SportsNet Chicago and ESPN3 outside the five-state RSN footprint.
The semifinal games on March 5, will be shown on CBS Sports Network for the first time, and the title contest on March 6, will air at 1 p.m. Central on CBS Sports."
I've been telling people Southeastern Louisiana and Samford are much better then people think next season, both are going to be home games. Ball State also is on their list. Those 3 games won't be cake walks and probably will test our young team.
https://twitter.com/CC_Report/status/907075269462188032
https://twitter.com/CC_Report/status/907081922207031296
Sorry to go off sequence here, but no one has addressed my important question of why we are not playing FOUR home conference games. It appears that we have opted for TWO SUNDAY games as HOME WEEKEND games. Why????
Can someone in the know address this?? As pointed out 20 posts earlier by Paul Oren, Valpo draws its best crowds on Saturday nights. Sunday afternoons seem pretty dead and home court is a valuable asset to leverage.
Conference game days are set by the conference office. I would almost guarantee the Sunday games end up being part of the television package.
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 11, 2017, 09:54:12 AM
Sorry to go off sequence here, but no one has addressed my important question of why we are not playing FOUR home conference games. It appears that we have opted for TWO SUNDAY games as HOME WEEKEND games. Why????
Can someone in the know address this?? As pointed out 20 posts earlier by Paul Oren, Valpo draws its best crowds on Saturday nights. Sunday afternoons seem pretty dead and home court is a valuable asset to leverage.
I'd like to know how we only landed 2 Saturdays and got stuck with 4 Sundays(!) the most in the MVC conference play next season.
Like vusupporter said I'm sure much of it has to do with the TV package. I'm guessing we also "drew the short straw" because we are the new to team to the MVC. Sundays afternoons are generally the toughest days to draw attendance because we are competing with 2 NFL teams (Bears & Colts & playoff games) for eyeballs and attention. I'd argue the Sunday's are worse then Friday's where we're competing with local High School Football.
Give me as many week day night game and Saturdays as possible. If we have to take Sunday's I'd prefer them be on Bears & Colts bye game weeks or after the season. If we ever have to schedule Friday games avoid them during the High School Football season. And try and not schedule at the same time as HS basketball games.
Valpo:Saturday: 2
Sunday: 4 (Valpo's 1st ever MVC home game competes directly with the Bears game on Dec. 31 @ Minnesota & the final Colts Reg season home game on Dec. 31 at 1pm)
Illinois State:Saturday: 4
Sunday: 2
UNI:Saturday: 4
Sunday: 1
Evansville:Saturday: 2
Sunday: 0
Indiana State:Saturday: 4
Sunday: 1
Missouri State:Saturday: 2
Sunday: 3
Bradley:Saturday: 3
Sunday: 1
Drake:Saturday: 4
Sunday: 0
Loyola:Saturday: 4
Sunday: 1
Southern Illinois:Saturday: 2
Sunday: 3
I disagree with the short-straw...I think the Sunday TV Package is better and gets us more national exposure. The others with multiple Sundays are the teams picked ahead of us in the standings. Someone thinks we'll be really good this year.
By the way, I count three conference games on Sundays... not 4... all at home...(SELA is the Sunday before Thanksgiving)
Missouri State at home 12/31
Loyola at home 1/21
Illinois State at home 2/11
Saturday:
Southern Illinois at home 1/6
Northern Iowa at Cedar Falls 1/13
Illinois State at Normal 1/27
Southern Illinois at Carbondale 2/3
Bradley at home 2/17
Drake at Des Moines 2/24
Tuesday:
Northern Iowa at home 2/20
Wednesday:
Bradley at Peoria 1/3
Drake at home 1/10
Missouri State at Springfield 1/17
Evansville at home 1/24
Indiana State at home 1/31
Loyola at Chicago 2/14
Thursday
Indiana State in Terre Haute 12/28
Quote from: talksalot on September 11, 2017, 01:26:23 PMWednesday:
Bradley at Peoria 1/3
Drake at home 1/10
Missouri State at Springfield 1/17
Evansville at home 1/24
Indiana State at home 1/31
Evansville at Evansville Ford Center 2/7
Loyola at Chicago 2/14
Yep you are correct only 3 Sunday home games not 4.
Maybe it's just me but I think the athletics department would probably rather have the 4 Saturday home games. Saturday's are the best days for attendance. Although if Sunday's may offer more TV exposure nationally and in local Chicago/NWI markets then the Sunday's may be more beneficial if those games were broadcast on ESPN2, ESPNU, or CSN Chicago. If the Sunday games were just on ESPN3 streaming online then I don't see much of any benefit of extra exposure.
We'll just have to wait and see for the TV/Streaming broadcast schedules to be announced. I think it would probably benefit Valpo to get on cable as much as possible.
I just looked through the 2016-17 schedules for the Valley teams, and most of the Sunday games were on ESPNU (and some Saturday games, too). May not mean anything for this year.
Missouri state, for example:
Fox Sports Midwest - Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, Saturday
CBS SportsNet - Saturday, Thursday
ESPN2 - Saturday (Wichita State)
ESPN3 - Wednesday, Saturday, Sunday
ESPNU - Sunday (Loyola)
None - Wednesday, Tuesday, Tuesday, Saturday, Wednesday
Northern Iowa:
None: Thursday
ESPN3: Sunday (new years day), Sunday, Saturday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday, Wednesday
Comcast SportsNet - Wednesday
ESPNU - Sunday (Wichita State)
Fox Sports Midwest - Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday
CBS Sports - Sunday, Saturday, Saturday (Both Saturday games tip at 1pm)
ESPN2 - Saturday (11am tip with Wichita State)
If you're looking for Saturday NIGHT games in conference...don't hold your dinner reservations!
Loyola:
Sat 1/7 @ Bradley 7pm
Sat 1/21 @ Ind St 1pm
Sat 2/4 H South Ill 1pm
Sat 2/25 @ South Ill 7pm
Sun 1/1 H Ill St 1pm
Sun 1/15 H MoSt 3pm
Sun 2/19 @ Ill St 3pm
===================
Bradley:
Sat 1/7 H Loyola 7pm - ESPN3
Sat 1/14 @ Ind St Noon
Sat 1/21 @ MoSt 2pm
Sat 2/4 H Drake 1pm
Sat 2/11 @ Ill St 9pm (yes, 9pm, ESPNU)
Sat 2/18 H Evansv 1pm
Sat 2/25 @ Drake 1pm
Sun 1/1 @ Wich St 1pm
Sun 1/29 H Wich St 3pm
==================
Southern Illinois
Sat 1/7 @ Mo St 3pm
Sat 1/14 @ Evansv 1pm
Sat 1/21 H UNI 7pm
Sat 1/28 H Mo St 7pm (No TV)
Sat 2/4 @ Loyola 1pm
Sat 2/11 H Evansv 3pm
Sat 2/25 H Loyola 7pm ESPN3
Sun 1/1 H Drake 4pm
Sun 2/19 @ Ind St 3pm
Be thankful our non-conference schedule isn't anything like Georgetown's:
"Georgetown's Non-Conference Schedule Is Terrible" (NBC Sports)
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/09/12/georgetowns-non-conference-schedule-is-terrible/ (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/09/12/georgetowns-non-conference-schedule-is-terrible/)
vu2014--last I heard the Bears/Colts do not play much in January and February so those Sundays should be pretty open....
Quote from: valpo84 on September 12, 2017, 01:41:33 PM
vu2014--last I heard the Bears/Colts do not play much in January and February so those Sundays should be pretty open....
Agreed, but we still have to compete with NFL Football Playoffs on Sundays. Not the end of the world. It is what it is.
Well... at least we don't have to worry about the Cubs this year...
The World Series—which will be broadcast on Fox—starts on Tuesday, Oct. 24 and would conclude on Wednesday, Nov. 1 if it goes to a seventh game.... weather permitting
VU MBB Home Opener is November 2nd.
Quote from: valpo84 on September 12, 2017, 01:41:33 PM
vu2014--last I heard the Bears/Colts do not play much in January and February so those Sundays should be pretty open....
Any word on when the Colts Varsity will start its season?
Quote from: valpopal on September 12, 2017, 01:05:43 PM
Be thankful our non-conference schedule isn't anything like Georgetown's:
"Georgetown's Non-Conference Schedule Is Terrible" (NBC Sports)
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/09/12/georgetowns-non-conference-schedule-is-terrible/ (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/09/12/georgetowns-non-conference-schedule-is-terrible/)
Rookie mistake by Ewing in putting this schedule together ... in time, he'll figure out that scheduling non-DI teams provide wins without hurting your RPI like playing 320+ DI teams.
I don't think that schedule was a mistake. Ewing's strategy was probably to schedule as many cupcake low-major home games as possible. He knew they weren't going to be the best so he loaded up on likely wins to make the W-L not look "too bad". I can see why maybe a school like Rutgers who has historically been a bad program doing this but its pretty disappointing to see from arguably a blue-blood program. I think most people would have respected them just taking their lumps next year if they would have scheduled against better competition. It wouldn't be hard to schedule a few good mid-majors that would have at least given his young players a test and taught them how to win.
The January 13th game @ Northern Iowa will tip at 8:00PM ET and air on ESPN2.
Full television schedule should come by the end of the month:
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/907950862747754496
Quote from: covufan on September 12, 2017, 02:47:39 PM
Quote from: valpo84 on September 12, 2017, 01:41:33 PM
vu2014--last I heard the Bears/Colts do not play much in January and February so those Sundays should be pretty open....
Any word on when the Colts Varsity will start its season?
Hey now!
All they need is a little Luck and then more luck.
Coach Gore breaks down the Non-Conference games and talks about the MVC Teams. Worth a listen. Apparently we tried to schedule IPFW but we could make the schedules work.
https://soundcloud.com/chase-logan-heckaman
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/907680018100350976
Quote from: VU2014 on September 10, 2017, 10:18:49 PMI've been telling people Southeastern Louisiana and Samford are much better then people think next season, both are going to be home games. Ball State also is on their list. Those 3 games won't be cake walks and probably will test our young team.
Southeastern Louisiana fan here, just found your board and saw this thread. I plan to make the trip up your way in November. It will be a tough early road test for us but hopefully we'll be competitive. We have a veteran team returning, plus get three guys back who sat out last year with injuries. I don't know if we're ready to knock off a good program like Valpo, but we've got an electric point guard (Marlain Veal) who's fun to watch, with solid complimentary guys around him. We're deep in football mode right now (this is football/baseball country in these parts), but looking forward to hoops season tipping off. Won't be that long.
Welcome to the board. Glad you found us. We have a nice core of returning players led by Tevonn Walker, a SG, who has started for us for 3 years, but we lost three major contributors to graduation in PF Alec Peters who signed with PHX, and SF Shane Hammink and C/PF Jubril AdeKoya who are now playing professionally in Europe. In addition to the returnees, we need to blend in the talents of two transfers who came to us from P-5 programs. This will be a transition year for us and we are looking forward to watching how this team jells while at the same time getting adjusted to our new conference colleagues in the MVC.
As the fall progresses there will be lots more information to chew on -- we are never really out of basketball mode here at Valpo ;D
We all have a collective eye roll whenever we see Valpo schedules Chicago State. The proof is in the data that Valpo generally dominates Chicago State. Hopefully the days of scheduling Chicago State are finished.
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/909814578619539457
https://heatcheckcbb.com/2017/07/18/the-15-most-lopsided-matchups-in-college-basketball-history/
The 15 Most Lopsided Matchups In College Basketball History
(https://heatcheckcbbcomsite.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/screen-shot-2017-07-17-at-9-40-08-pm.png)
Quote from: VU2014 on September 18, 2017, 12:03:48 PMHopefully the days of scheduling Chicago State are finished.
In recent years we have continued to use Chicago St as a geographically useful schedule filler. No reason UIC and UWM can not now step into that role but it will have to work for them as well.
Speaking for myself I do not like being a schedule filler for Purdue or Northwestern only when we are a reliably beatable victim. That is why I want them again in 18-19.
Quote from: justducky on September 18, 2017, 12:31:31 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 18, 2017, 12:03:48 PMHopefully the days of scheduling Chicago State are finished.
Speaking for myself I do not like being a schedule filler for Purdue or Northwestern only when we are a reliably beatable victim. That is why I want them again in 18-19.
I can't stand how power Conference teams do that. Of course they schedule VU (a name brand Mid-Major and a in-state team that offers more interest) when we graduate our NBA player and a class with 2 other professional players and they see we have 7 new players on the roster...
I'd love for us to get a shot at Purdue & Northwestern again next year but I don't see it happening especially if there is a point in those games where our young team really pushes them and give them a scare.
The filler comparison isn't bad but I think we bring more to the table for Purdue & Northwestern then Chicago State does for us.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 18, 2017, 12:03:48 PM
We all have a collective eye roll whenever we see Valpo schedules Chicago State. The proof is in the data that Valpo generally dominates Chicago State. Hopefully the days of scheduling Chicago State are finished.
So what you're saying is we have established a great tradition with Chicago State and you wanna just go and throw it all away? ;)
Quote from: VU2014 on September 18, 2017, 12:03:48 PMhttps://heatcheckcbb.com/2017/07/18/the-15-most-lopsided-matchups-in-college-basketball-history/
The 15 Most Lopsided Matchups In College Basketball History
Cincinnati/Houston, Duke/Davidson and Rhode Island/Vermont seem three of the most unusual of results to me. Any others?
I see a few of the game times have been posted on the Valley composite schedule site...
http://mvc-sports.com/calendar.aspx?path=mbball
Mainly Evansville games... I'm guessing because of the cross-use of the Arena...but most of their home and away game times are up.
Wednesday Jan 24: Valpo HERE at 7pm
Wednesday Feb 7: Valpo THERE at 7pm
and I just noticed that there are two pre-Christmas conference games: 12/22 Loyola @ Missouri State; and 12/23 Illinois State at Evansville (1pm)
Other Non-Evansville games scheduled:
Tuesday, 1/16 Drake @UNI 7pm
Sunday 1/21, UNI @ SUI 3pm
Tuesday 1/30, SIU @ Drake 7pm
Saturday 2/3, Drake @ Bradley 7pm
Saturday, 2/10, UNI @ Drake 3pm
As an aside... wonder what will happen with the tournaments in Puerto Rico (Illinois State); Virgin Islands (Drake), Nassau Bahamas (Bradley) ?
Gotta be the last thing on the host minds right now.
Quote from: talksalot on September 25, 2017, 04:45:53 PMAs an aside... wonder what will happen with the tournaments in Puerto Rico (Illinois State); Virgin Islands (Drake), Nassau Bahamas (Bradley) ?
That is a very good question one that had not crossed my mind. The scope and duration of their rebuild is almost unimaginable.
WARNING!!! HIJACK IN PROCESS! :o
My suggestion for Trump is to offer Puerto Rico (as is) to Mexico in exchange for a Mexican commitment to build and pay for the wall. ::) Or maybe he could encourage North Korea to lob a few nuclear devices on the island to put them out of their misery. :)
Is anybody else starting to question the wisdom of totally rebuilding some of these coastal disasters? Will climate change force us to recognize portions to be lost causes? Why should the midwest subsidize these recognizable risks?
What climate change ???
maybe they scrap the tournaments this year or find a new location to play. It's sad to see the devastation down there.
No power across PR. I talked to a FEMA person today who was on break fron FL ( and PR was in her area of coverage) and she said that FEMA was overwhelmed and that it would be a long time before anything positive would begin to register. These pre-Christmas tourneys are way down the priority list. Heck, some are predicting that much of PR will be without power for months and maybe a year.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 25, 2017, 06:24:30 PM
maybe they scrap the tournaments this year or find a new location to play. It's sad to see the devastation down there.
Last year's Puerto Rico Shoot-Out was held in Orlando due to a Zika outbreak, so relocating again is a possibility.
maybe they can move some of them to the Vale of Paradise...
Game times look to be up now.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 25, 2017, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 25, 2017, 06:24:30 PM
maybe they scrap the tournaments this year or find a new location to play. It's sad to see the devastation down there.
Last year's Puerto Rico Shoot-Out was held in Orlando due to a Zika outbreak, so relocating again is a possibility.
I don't know anymore than anyone else about the Puerto Rico situation, but trust me there is zero chance of holding Paradise Jam in St. Thomas this year. The University of the Virgin Islands suffered major damage (along with most everything else on the island). Classes are suspended. In fact, they may have to cancel the entire semester and shoot for a January re-start.
Quote from: wh on September 26, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 25, 2017, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 25, 2017, 06:24:30 PM
maybe they scrap the tournaments this year or find a new location to play. It's sad to see the devastation down there.
Last year's Puerto Rico Shoot-Out was held in Orlando due to a Zika outbreak, so relocating again is a possibility.
I don't know anymore than anyone else about the Puerto Rico situation, but trust me there is zero chance of holding Paradise Jam in St. Thomas this year. The University of the Virgin Islands suffered major damage (along with most everything else on the island). Classes are suspended. In fact, they may have to cancel the entire semester and shoot for a January re-start.
Yes. The photos are horrific. PR is equal to or even worse. Pray that everyone can get to water and food.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 25, 2017, 07:40:35 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 25, 2017, 06:24:30 PM
maybe they scrap the tournaments this year or find a new location to play. It's sad to see the devastation down there.
Last year's Puerto Rico Shoot-Out was held in Orlando due to a Zika outbreak, so relocating again is a possibility.
PR Shoot-Out moved to Myrtle Beach.
I'd be ticked if were the other teams. Thats virtually a home game for South Carolina in that "Neutral Site" tourney.
Conference games with start times on the Valpo site (not MVC Sports)
Thursday 12/28 at Indiana State 6pm
Sunday 12/31 Missouri State ARC 3pm
Wednesday 1/3 at Bradley 7pm
Saturday 1/6 Southern Illinois ARC 3pm
Wednesday 1/10 Drake ARC 7pm
Saturday 1/13 at Northern Iowa 7pm
Wednesday 1/17 at Missouri State 7pm
Sunday 1/21 Loyola ARC 3pm
Wednesday 1/24 Evansville ARC 7pm
Saturday 1/27 at Illinois State 9pm
Wednesday 1/31 Indiana State ARC 7pm
Saturday 2/3 at Southern Illinois 7pm
Wednesday 2/7 at Evansville 7pm
Sunday 2/11 Illinois State ARC 3pm
Wednesday 2/14 at Loyola TBA
Saturday 2/17 Bradley ARC 7pm
Tuesday 2/20 Northern Iowa ARC 8pm
Saturday 2/24 at Drake TBA
Saturday Night fans in the ARC... ONE game on the entire schedule... Bradley on 2/17...all of the scheduled road conference games on Saturdays start after 6pm...
Is there a TV or streaming conflict thing regarding other MVC teams? Why can't all games be played at the same time Saturday nights and streamed independently?
On the plus side (I think) are the Sunday start times -- 3PM. Much better than earlier in the afternoon and much better than 5 or 6pm when people have to start thinking about school and work on Monday.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 28, 2017, 12:16:28 PM
Is there a TV or streaming conflict thing regarding other MVC teams? Why can't all games be played at the same time Saturday nights and streamed independently?
On the plus side (I think) are the Sunday start times -- 3PM. Much better than earlier in the afternoon and much better than 5 or 6pm when people have to start thing about school and work on Monday.
I'm guessing Networks have a large say in what the start times of these games are and the MVC isn't on the top of their "food chains".
The way the Valley TV contract usually works is that there are at least one game a weekend (usually on Saturday or Sunday afternoon) on Fox Sports Midwest and Comcast in Chicago. Those games are mostly in the afternoon because in the evenings they would be up against the pro sports like the Blues on FSM or Bulls/Blackhawks in Chicago. Sometimes they are delayed overnight because they are up against a pro team. ESPN2 and ESPNU will usually show no more than a handful of games throughout the season. Most of the times, it's when the #1 and #2 teams in the league are playing. All other games (conference games and non-conference homes games) are streamed on ESPN3/WatchESPN. Most of them are decent with local TV guys as announcers and most of the production work is done by students in the Radio/TV department of the schools.
It's actually in Conway, SC, but that's coming from a stickler South Carolina resident.
TV Schedule:
MVC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HL
I love that we're getting more chances to play on National TV!
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/915247368248991745
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/915247672138887169
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/915247929518063616
So, by my count, if you include the two BTN games, that's seven national TV games *before* we get to any games CBS Sports Network, Fox or NBC Sports Chicago might pick up (and not including MVC/MWC Challenge)? Sweet. I like our new league.
CBS Sports Network announces its MVC Basketball TV Schedule:
https://twitter.com/MVCsports/status/915655175850819585
http://mvc-sports.com/news/2017/10/4/arch-madness-mvc-announces-selections-on-cbs-sports-network.aspx?utm_content=buffer02a86&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Tuesday, February 20 Northern Iowa @ Valparaiso (MBB -- CBSSN) @ Valparaiso, Indiana 8 p.m.
*Potential Wild Card Game: Saturday, February 24 Valparaiso @ Drake (MBB -- CBSSN) @ Des Moines, Iowa 3 p.m.
Saturday March 3 State Farm MVC Tournament -- Semifinal #1 (MBB -- CBSSN) St. Louis, Missouri 2:30 p.m.
State Farm MVC Tournament -- Semifinal #2 (MBB -- CBSSN) St. Louis, Missouri 5 p.m.
Sunday March 4 State Farm MVC Tournament -- Title Game (MBB -- CBS) St. Louis, Missouri 1 p.m
The Drake game is just a potential wildcard selection, not a for-sure TV game.
https://twitter.com/MVCsports/status/915970839102808065
http://mvc-sports.com/news/2017/10/4/league-distributes-22-game-mens-basketball-package-on-mvc-tv-network.aspx?utm_content=buffer5a11c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
2017-18 MVC TV NETWORK ON FOX, NBC SPORTS AND ESPN3
Thursday December 28 Valparaiso @ Indiana State (MBB) Terre Haute, Indiana 6 p.m.
Saturday January 6 Southern Illinois @ Valparaiso (MBB) Valparaiso, Indiana 3 p.m.
Saturday February 17 Bradley @ Valparaiso (MBB) Valparaiso, Indiana 8 p.m.
Thursday March 1 State Farm MVC Tournament - Opening Round #1 (MBB) St. Louis, Missouri 6 p.m.
State Farm MVC Tournament - Opening Round #2 (MBB) St. Louis, Missouri 8:30 p.m.
Friday March 2 State Farm MVC Tournament -- Quarterfinal #1 (MBB) St. Louis, Missouri 12 p.m.
State Farm MVC Tournament -- Quarterfinal #2 (MBB) St. Louis, Missouri 2:30 p.m.
State Farm MVC Tournament -- Quarterfinal #3 (MBB) St. Louis, Missouri 6 p.m.
State Farm MVC Tournament -- Quarterfinal #4 (MBB) St. Louis, Missouri 8:30 p.m.
It may have been discussed somewhere in this thread, but does Valpo have a closed scrimmage scheduled for this year?
We're playing a scrimmage but the opponent hasn't been publicly named yet.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/921371338362834946
I see a lot of teams are playing "charity games", including Marquette and UWM. Great cause, but also a great chance for teams to get an extra game.
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-10-19/college-basketball-ncaa-says-least-24-schools-playing-aid (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2017-10-19/college-basketball-ncaa-says-least-24-schools-playing-aid)
Quote from: VU2014 on October 20, 2017, 11:10:53 AM
We're playing a scrimmage but the opponent hasn't been publicly named yet.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/921371338362834946
Per Jeff Goodman, 10/28 vs Northern Illinois.
Valpo will be scrimmaging Northern Illinois on 10/28.
Here are the rest on the MVC scrimmages. These would be great Non-Con match ups.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/921758891985264640
Quote from: VU2014 on October 21, 2017, 12:55:44 PM
Valpo will be scrimmaging Northern Illinois on 10/28.
Here are the rest on the MVC scrimmages. These would be great Non-Con match ups.
[tweet]921758891985264640[/tweet]
Here is a goodwill idea for the NCAA, which desperately needs some positive public relations: why not offer all those "secret" scrimmages to the community as open events with proceeds going to charity?
A number have two scrimmages.
I see neither Western Michigan nor Eastern Michigan have one scheduled. Maybe we could get a second game against one of them.
Quote from: valpopal on October 21, 2017, 04:44:26 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 21, 2017, 12:55:44 PM
Valpo will be scrimmaging Northern Illinois on 10/28.
Here are the rest on the MVC scrimmages. These would be great Non-Con match ups.
[tweet]921758891985264640[/tweet]
Here is a goodwill idea for the NCAA, which desperately needs some positive public relations: why not offer all those "secret" scrimmages to the community as open events with proceeds going to charity?
Looks like some are taking my advice: how about Valpo?
[tweet]922884077442781185[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/KampeOU/status/923243325838290946