As we know, there are a lot of changes happening at the major conferences in the next few years, influencing the Big 12, Pac 12, ACC, Big Ten, SEC, and Big East. I don't think Valpo is going anywhere; however, I do think the Horizon league could be included eventually. Rumors are that Butler will likely be approached by another conference in the near future, and there may be additions to the Horizon league in upcoming years.
Still, I was just reading online about the possibilities of conference realignment, and I came across the following model in twitter messages from one site, the first I have seen which includes both Butler and Valpo among future possible targets for change:
Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St. to the Pac 12
Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Connecticut, West Virginia to the ACC
Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St., Missouri to Big Ten
Louisville, Memphis, Texas A&M, Baylor to SEC
Butler, Xavier, Valpo, Richmond to Big East
No offense but the author of this must of just finished with his crack pipe.
Agree. Connecticut and RUTGERS (not UWVA) will probably join the ACC. Rutgers is ideally located between NYC and Philly. A great marketplace for the ACC. Book it!
The whole travel thing would make being in the Big East problematic, not to mention the level of competition.
Still, we play in the Pioneer which has to have as big a travel budget as any conference in the country. Its football and thus limited number of games, but to travel to California, Florida, New York and North Carolina seems really expensive, particularly taking into account the number of players traveling.
Here are two more articles this week that propose Xavier and Butler to the Big East. One also suggests a possible realignment of teams from the Horizon, A-10, and Missouri Valley that would influence Valpo and form a stronger mid-major conference, which would get multiple bids to the NCAA:
http://www.examiner.com/butler-bulldogs-in-indianapolis/where-will-butler-fall-conference-shuffle (http://www.examiner.com/butler-bulldogs-in-indianapolis/where-will-butler-fall-conference-shuffle)
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15606543/pillaged-big-east-can-survive-if-it-follows-this-plan (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15606543/pillaged-big-east-can-survive-if-it-follows-this-plan)
I like a Butler-Valpo rivalry. Unfortunately, I think Butler will eventually receive an offer that would be too hard to turn down.
rumors have the big east and big 12 talking a merger. it'll be interesting to see if/how that would work out, as neither wants to be seen as becoming subordinate to the other.
an interesting point i read a while back was that all this realignment seems to be happening based solely on football, while completely forgetting the other sports. and basketball would be the biggest one to suffer. it'll definitely be interesting to see what all comes out of this latest round of talks.
One of the former athletic directors of the targeted realignment schools stated that this is all about the football programs. In the bigger schools, football provides 70% of the funding of the entire athletic programs and there is a push from the school presidents to get all athletics to be self funding. This makes the large groupings more favorable to TV and other media revenue like the Big Ten where just by being a member with the Big Ten Network you get approximately $23-$24 million. Now add to that the bowl games - NCCA March Madness and you can see the dollar signs dancing in their collective heads. i.e. Michigan football 110,000 x 7 = 770,000 attendance vs basketball 18,000 x 18 = 324,000 attendance - tickets, concessions, merchandise it all adds up quickly.
I think Valpo will find itself in a welcome conference somewhere. I know that it won't be a nationally prominent conference and I know it won't be the level of the Mid-Con.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on September 20, 2011, 01:38:22 PM
I think Valpo will find itself in a welcome conference somewhere. I know that it won't be a nationally prominent conference and I know it won't be the level of the Mid-Con.
Not sure what you mean but I would think that the other Horizon teams, if Butler leaves, would stick together and try to add an A-10 school like St. Louis to replace Butler.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on September 20, 2011, 01:38:22 PM
I think Valpo will find itself in a welcome conference somewhere. I know that it won't be a nationally prominent conference and I know it won't be the level of the Mid-Con.
We just got here. From everything I've heard, the administration and athletic department are very pleased with the move to the HL. I've never heard even one of our fans or alumni ever say anything other than positive comments about it. Why would we be interested in going anywhere else? The HL is an excellent conference and if we all stick together (as '72 says), it will remain so - with or without Butler. Our athletic budgets are comparable, athletic competition is excellent in several sports, we have a nice mid-west geographic orientation, there is a lot of tradition with some longstanding HL programs, we have a diverse mix of private and public schools --- why would anyone (including us) want to go somewhere else or form some new conference? Maybe I'm missing something, but as with many things in life often the best strategy is to leave well enough alone.
The thought of Baylor in the SEC is just laughable, wayyyyyyyyyyyy different school agendas between an SEC school and BU. If anything, the team to go to the SEC with A&M is Missouri, due to bringing that state into their sphere. The widely reported move of WVU to the SEC probably won't happen, as WVU brings absolutely no fan base to the conference (1.8 million in whole state), and receives an even worse rating with US News than almost every other SEC school. Though I know the US News ratings are flawed, being worse in academic standing than a Georgia, Mississippi, MS State, etc, would not help their intent of wanting to improve academic image.
LULZ at WVU to the ACC, or ISU or KSU to the B1G. Not going to happen. Valpo to the Big East? Yeah, sure. Some of these projections are ridiculous, but I will say this--if the Big East implodes there is a pretty good possibility that the HL is going to be effected somehow. Valpo needs to be ready as a private institution.
Personally, I've never been one to really care much about the public vs. private distinction in the HL, but when Villanova applied to the ACC for membership as a private, catholic non football member of the Big East, IMO, this somewhat changed the expansion landscape to the point where this distinction now becomes much more relevant—particularly if the catholic basketball schools break off and search for other non-public institutions for members (see Butler, Xavier, Dayton, SJU, UDM, LUC et. al.). This will effect both the HL and the A-10. The HL could be effected doubly by both a Big East and A-10 ripple.
Now don't get me wrong. I am not an alarmist, but I do remember 1993. I as a Valpo grad and fan am perfectly content in the HL, even if Butler were to move elsewhere should a ripple effect occur. At the same time, however, what if the ripple effect also takes UDM and LUC as well? Does this change the dynamic for Valpo? I say the answer is yes. This is why, as a private institution that we need to watch what happens. We were caught with our pants down when six members departed for the MCC. I'm not saying that this will happen this time around, but we need to be keenly aware of what takes place, if anything takes place, given the public vs. private distinction.
It will be interesting to see what, if anything happens going forward.
Looks like several of these scenarios just stopped with the Pac-12 deciding not to expand. That keeps the Big 12 together unless Missouri leaves for SEC with A&M. I think you meant that Villanova applied to join the Big East in football by stepping up to FCS. I haven't seen anything on them applying to ACC.
Navy AD Confirms Talks with BCS Conferences
http://navy.scout.com/2/1108796.html (http://navy.scout.com/2/1108796.html)
Not sure how I feel about this one... It at least seems like a measured approach instead of this seemingly chaotic jumping we see now.
Quote from: valpotx on September 21, 2011, 12:51:10 AM
Looks like several of these scenarios just stopped with the Pac-12 deciding not to expand. That keeps the Big 12 together unless Missouri leaves for SEC with A&M. I think you meant that Villanova applied to join the Big East in football by stepping up to FCS. I haven't seen anything on them applying to ACC.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/216277/20110919/villanova-acc-conference-expansion-conference-realignment.htm (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/216277/20110919/villanova-acc-conference-expansion-conference-realignment.htm)
I'm not necessarily saying that Valpo or Milwaukee or any team would leave the conference, but it never hurts to have an exit strategy if you find your situation less appealing than you'd like it to be.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on September 21, 2011, 08:25:41 AM
Quote from: valpotx on September 21, 2011, 12:51:10 AM
Looks like several of these scenarios just stopped with the Pac-12 deciding not to expand. That keeps the Big 12 together unless Missouri leaves for SEC with A&M. I think you meant that Villanova applied to join the Big East in football by stepping up to FCS. I haven't seen anything on them applying to ACC.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/216277/20110919/villanova-acc-conference-expansion-conference-realignment.htm (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/216277/20110919/villanova-acc-conference-expansion-conference-realignment.htm)
Interesting. I don't see the ACC accepting a school that does not have a FBS football team, even though Nova has been successful in FCS and would move to the higher level with an acceptance. A team in transition from FCS to FBS would not do well in the ACC.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6998720/commissioner-john-marinatto-says-schools-committed-big-east (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6998720/commissioner-john-marinatto-says-schools-committed-big-east)
It appears that things are beginning to stabilize. The Big East is looking to find some schools with football programs to maintain its football identity and not become a basketball-only conference. So much for the Butler speculation, although it's highly doubtful anyone was seriously considering them anyway. It's kind of a shame for them. By all rights, their spectacular recent performance in men's basketball should at least earn them a look by a bigger conference, but when it's all said and done they're simply not big enough. Their current athletic budget is 40% below the lowest Big East school and they would likely be bottom feeders in several other sports for a long time. Their men's bb program can compete with any D-1 Major anywhere, yet they still draw like a Mid Major in spite of the advantages of residing in a major metropolitan area with no other major collegiate sports programs in town, and in a basketball-crazy state no less. Add that no public funding and a small, Mid West-centered alumni base, and they clearly are not ready for the big time. They may go somewhere sometime, but it will never be to a BCS conference. I guess they will just have to settle for being a premier academic institution with an outstanding men's basketball program.
Butler is going to leave the Horizon League. When the Big East fails, whether it this year, next year, or the year after that, the Big East will split and Xavier and Butler will be invited to join the conference. (this was said in multiple places following the basketball-school only conference call early this week. There is actually two people who popped on XavierHoops.com with details, but you can find it several places.
After the first two, the league will then assess if they want to go bigger. I tend to think they'd take a couple more.
This really isnt the time to be ostridges with heads in the ground. This is happening. Everyone in the Horizon League needs to be preparing, even if UConn or Rutgers or Eest Virginia or_____ decide to jump ship now, it's going to happen. This is a stay of execution and everyone knows it, from Georgetown all the way to Depaul.
3 years ago I said 2014. That still sounds right.
As for everyone else, there'll be more team's moving around so there'll be places. The natural, of course, a merger of sorts with the Summit.
So we better kick Butler's butt the next couple of years then before they run away! I like our chances!
Valpo's AD Mark LaBarbera speaks about this issue:
"We have no contingency plan," LaBarbera said. "We have no plan on the table for, 'Oh, gee, what'll we do if a member leaves?' I think Jon LeCrone has done a very good job of keeping track of what's going on and keeping us informed. The sense I get when I'm in the room is that the members of the conference feel good about the conference as a whole."
And in the unlikely scenario that the dominoes eventually do reach the mid-majors? Life will go on, with or without Butler. Just like it did in 1994, when Xavier left the Horizon (then the MCC) for the Atlantic-10.
"People asked the league back then, 'What are you going to do, that's your best program?'" LaBarbera said. "Well, it worked out well for them, and it worked out just fine for the Horizon League. It seems to me that it'd be best if people just took a step back and took a deep breath and decided what's best for the schools and for the student-athletes."
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/7793291-556/mark-lazerus-horizon-league-content-to-skip-conference-chaos.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/7793291-556/mark-lazerus-horizon-league-content-to-skip-conference-chaos.html)
Quote from: valpopal on September 22, 2011, 10:08:22 AM
Valpo's AD Mark LaBarbera speaks about this issue:
"We have no contingency plan," LaBarbera said. "We have no plan on the table for, 'Oh, gee, what'll we do if a member leaves?' I think Jon LeCrone has done a very good job of keeping track of what's going on and keeping us informed. The sense I get when I'm in the room is that the members of the conference feel good about the conference as a whole."
And in the unlikely scenario that the dominoes eventually do reach the mid-majors? Life will go on, with or without Butler. Just like it did in 1994, when Xavier left the Horizon (then the MCC) for the Atlantic-10.
"People asked the league back then, 'What are you going to do, that's your best program?'" LaBarbera said. "Well, it worked out well for them, and it worked out just fine for the Horizon League. It seems to me that it'd be best if people just took a step back and took a deep breath and decided what's best for the schools and for the student-athletes."
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/7793291-556/mark-lazerus-horizon-league-content-to-skip-conference-chaos.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/7793291-556/mark-lazerus-horizon-league-content-to-skip-conference-chaos.html)
This is an excellent article. Very interesting (and I might add settling) to learn our A.D.'s take on this whole topic...
mizzou won't go to the sec. the ad and the chancellor (who is also serving concurrently as the chair of the big 12 board of directors) have repeatedly stated that their primary goal is the stability of the big 12. and the sec keeps saying that they don't currently plan to invite the tigers to join the conference. i do think its a shame that oklahoma is trying to oust the commissioner as part of their offer to stay in the conference. i don't know what their reasons are, but i think it's a shame. i think dan beebe did a hell of a job keeping the conference together after last year, and he's being dealt a bum hand.
Quote from: Title on September 22, 2011, 05:11:08 AMThis really isnt the time to be ostridges with heads in the ground.
What the heck is an ostridge? Haha!
On a related note . . .
Suicidal Ostrich (http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F30816FF3E5C12738DDDAD0A94DF405B8985F0D3)
(http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F30816FF3E5C12738DDDAD0A94DF405B8985F0D3)
As an offshoot of Beebe's retirement, Missouri loses it's primary supporter of continued alignment with the Big 12. Matt Peloquin tweeted something to the effect that many at Missouri desire the SEC move.
I'd wager it'll simmer another off season then Missouri will leave.
Speculation already out there that Louisville would be Missouri replacement target.
Elsewhere, TCU is trying to back out of the Big East deal for either the big 12 or to go back to the MWC.
Anyway you skin it, the big east as a football entity is on it's last legs. There's just too much blood in the water. Every single desirable member will get sucked off one by one, until you have Conference USA with the basketball schools bolted on.
Assuming the autobid isn't lost before then, that is when the split happens.
And I'll give Valpo's AD the benefit of the doubt in that he's just trying to say the right thing. Because Butler (or anyone else) would be out the door without a second thought.
Slim chance that TCU is going back to the Mountain West, and highly unlikely that TCU gets admitted to the Big 12. TCU hated BYU and Utah leaving, as they were quality opponents. Boise State being added helps in football, but not much else. Nevada, Hawaii, and Fresno State are a poor man's BYU/Utah/TCU, and they wanted a shot at possible championship games in football.
On the other end, Baylor is likened to Detroit as TCU is to Oakland (Detroit would vote against adding Oakland). Given the chance in a conference where they don't absolutely need just any program to add, Baylor will veto TCU joining the Big 12. Baylor already has a hard time in being on a lower level of football than the smaller TCU, regadless of having finally beaten TCU this year. Then you also have the fact that the Big 12 is happy with their Texas footprint as is, and the other Texas schools don't want to give people any more fire to attend TCU over their pompous institutions :). You just can't understand the hate stories in Texas football unless you live down here. Texas, Texas Tech, and A&M administrators & fans would have freaked to see TCU playing for a national championship last year. They had a hard enough time just with the publicity the schools has gotten in the last decade.
This comes from a few people I know that are major boosters at TCU. Weirder things have happened, but they think both ideas are unlikely unless a few more schools leave the Big 12 in the future.
Navy considers possible football move to Big East
QuoteThough Gladchuk said that Navy hasn't been offered a spot to replace either Syracuse or Pittsburgh, the schools that announced Sunday they were leaving the Big East for the Atlantic Coast Conference, the likelihood seems strong that one will be tendered in the near future.
"We've had very legitimate discussions with the Big East regarding the possibility of membership," Gladchuk said.
Big East commissioner John Marinatto declined to comment, but the Associated Press has reported that Navy and Air Force are the top choices to join the league, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions.
"My concern is not about today or tomorrow or the next five, six, seven years, my concern is where do we need to be, where can we be, eight or nine years down the road," Gladchuk said. "If this evolves into a situation that would potentially exclude Navy, then that's a concern of mine. We don't want this program ever to become irrelevant. We have every intention to play at the highest level and to be well-respected nationally."
Gladchuk said that the Big East and other conferences have reached out to Navy before the last few months, when leagues such as the Pac-10 and Big Ten have expanded to 12 teams and when leagues such as the Southeastern Conference flirted with becoming a 16-team superpower.
Those conversations with the Big East started again late last week, when word got out that Syracuse and Pittsburgh were leaving.
"The Big East got blindsided a few days ago, and the Big East's mission today is to recalibrate what they are, who's committed, who's in, who's going to be a part of the Big East over the long haul," Gladchuk said. "Once they get their infrastructure in place, they'll be looking for members. I think we're in a pretty strong position based on what we have in place to be patient to make certain the Big East is a possibility and is practical for Navy, so we would be getting involved with a group that is committed to what the Big East needs to be."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/football/bs-sp-navy-big-east-0923-20110922,0,5142645.story (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/football/bs-sp-navy-big-east-0923-20110922,0,5142645.story)
Navy to the BE makes sense, but Air Force? A school in Colorado in the Big East???
Strong/rabid fan base among the service academies. I guess it's no worse than a TX team in the Big East.
Quote from: valpotx on September 23, 2011, 02:26:14 PM
Strong/rabid fan base among the service academies. I guess it's no worse than a TX team in the Big East.
Or Marist (Poughkeepsie, NY), Jacksonville (Florida) and San Diego (California) in the PFL. Of course with the PFL each team only makes the road trip to another school every 2 years and they play football usually only once per week.
Valpo's 4 road games in the PFL this season include Butler, Drake (Des Moines), Marist (Poughkeepsie) and Davidson (Davidson, NC).
Valpo doesn't have to play at San Diego, Dayton, Morehead State (Morehead, KY) and Campbell (Buies Creek, NC).
Another take on conf. reshuffling and how it could affect the HL:
http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2011/09/23/realignment-butler-waiting-watching/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2011/09/23/realignment-butler-waiting-watching/)
If Utah, TCU and BYU would have been content to sit where they were, they were going to get an AQ bid to the BCS eventually based on the continued strength of their Mountain West.
They are the biggest sell-outs to the mid-major world. Winning a national title in one of the two major sports would be big, but a mid-major conference rising up to join the ranks of the high-majors without having to add "high-major" schools? I'd have loved to see that.
To me, TCU, BYU and Utah abandoned the cause that BYU and Utah's own congressman was championing. That's all well and good - they did what they thought was best for the future of their schools - but they were on track to do something no one thought was possible.
Before the conference realignment, a Mountain West Conference made up of Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, New Mexico, San Diego State, UNLV, Wyoming could have added the schools they did - Boise State, Nevada, Fresno State and Hawaii. They could have added one more, let's say Louisiana and done what has been thought impossible - completely usurp an existing BCS conference in both football and men's basketball.
But they didn't. They bailed, BSU and the other schools came aboard, and now the Mountain West is a better version of the WAC.
TCU as a 'mid-major' is a bit deceiving. They used to be in a conference with the 'big boys' then known as the SWC. They got left behind (much as Valpo did) due to a pact between UT, TTU, A&M and Baylor when they moved to the Big 12. You can't blame the school for wanting to get back to the days where they compete against better competition daily. Also, a school with $1.2 billion in endowment is not your typical mid major as well.
Though it does not mean as much with less teams back then, they do have 2 national championships in football in 1935 & 1938, and the award offered each year to the best QB in the nation is named after TCU's heisman winner from 1938, Davey O'Brien. 'Slinging' Sammy Baugh was the QB of the 1935 team.
Interesting read about the Big East implosion potentially occurring on Sunday:
http://www.beyondusports.com/big-east-implode-sunday/ (http://www.beyondusports.com/big-east-implode-sunday/)
and for kicks:
http://www.footballrumormill.com/2011/09/29/breaking-west-virginia-holds-up-big-12-expansion-could-cost-tcu-spot/ (http://www.footballrumormill.com/2011/09/29/breaking-west-virginia-holds-up-big-12-expansion-could-cost-tcu-spot/)
As a private institution, VU would be a fool to not have contingency plans in place as a failsafe if this happens.
Ok, that is a scenario where I could see TCU actually staying in the Mountain West lol. If the Big East schools bolt with WVU going to SEC, all others to Big 12, TCU would HAVE to stay in MW. I really would love to see TCU in the Big 12, so we will have to see if Baylor can swallow some pride and let in some private school competition.
as of right now, tcu is scheduled to join the big east next year. but yeah, that would all go out the window if wvu goes to the sec or the big 12. those possibilities, like everything else are pure media speculation. but i can see the draw in morgantown of going to the sec. especially with everybody in the media essentially counting down the days till the death of the big 12.
well, if it happens where those 4-5 teams join the Big 12, that shores it up a good bit. Cinci, BYU, TCU, WVU, and Louisville would be great, but I just don't know as it seems every scenario is in place still. I still think that Missouri bolts for the SEC before WVU would be accepted. The SEC wants more money, and the state of West Virginia just doesn't add much in the way of a 'wow' factor to add TV base. Missouri at least has the large cities of St. Louis and Kansas City.
mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 01, 2011, 01:12:50 PM
mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.
The way college football and basketball is going with the conference changes, I would say the board of curators only values the money. If the SEC was worried about athletic reputation then how have Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St. stayed in the conference, besides geography?
Quote from: valporun on October 01, 2011, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 01, 2011, 01:12:50 PM
mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.
The way college football and basketball is going with the conference changes, I would say the board of curators only values the money. If the SEC was worried about athletic reputation then how have Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St. stayed in the conference, besides geography?
that's one more thing they have over mizzou. we don't even have geography - then again neither does texas a&m really. and vandy, ole miss, and miss st have competed at least, in the smaller sports, not necessarily as much in the big pair.
Quote from: valpotx on October 01, 2011, 12:25:22 PM
well, if it happens where those 4-5 teams join the Big 12, that shores it up a good bit. Cinci, BYU, TCU, WVU, and Louisville would be great, but I just don't know as it seems every scenario is in place still. I still think that Missouri bolts for the SEC before WVU would be accepted. The SEC wants more money, and the state of West Virginia just doesn't add much in the way of a 'wow' factor to add TV base. Missouri at least has the large cities of St. Louis and Kansas City.
Not to mention, WVU has a terrible academic ranking (US News #164) which would be worst in most conferences, even the SEC. No money, no big market, and bad academics makes WVU unattractive to most conferences looking to expand.
Quote from: valporun on October 01, 2011, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 01, 2011, 01:12:50 PM
mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.
The way college football and basketball is going with the conference changes, I would say the board of curators only values the money. If the SEC was worried about athletic reputation then how have Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St. stayed in the conference, besides geography?
Has a Big 6 school ever been "kicked out" of a conference once they were in the conference? I actually can only think of one div.1 school that was ever "kicked out" of a conference and that was Chicago State from the Mid-Con. Maybe University of Chicago from the Big 10 but I really think they chose to leave the Big 10 in 1946. Can anyone think of any other schools that were "kicked out" of their conference?
Quote from: historyman on October 01, 2011, 06:37:25 PM
Quote from: valporun on October 01, 2011, 03:07:18 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 01, 2011, 01:12:50 PM
mizzou would get destroyed in the sec. but it would probably bring in more money. so that would become a question of what does the board of curators value more - a solid athletic reputation, or more money.
The way college football and basketball is going with the conference changes, I would say the board of curators only values the money. If the SEC was worried about athletic reputation then how have Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St. stayed in the conference, besides geography?
Has a Big 6 school ever been "kicked out" of a conference once they were in the conference? I actually can only think of one div.1 school that was ever "kicked out" of a conference and that was Chicago State from the Mid-Con. Maybe University of Chicago from the Big 10 but I really think they chose to leave the Big 10 in 1946. Can anyone think of any other schools that were "kicked out" of their conference?
Temple was kicked out of the Big East in 2004.
Yes, I believe Temple was kicked out due to football mediocrity? Chi State is also the only other one I can think of
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference)
it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens with this. i'm curious though as to why army and navy wouldn't be members in all sports? would they be football only members, or everything but football?
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 02, 2011, 06:47:32 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference)
it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens with this. i'm curious though as to why army and navy wouldn't be members in all sports? would they be football only members, or everything but football?
From what I've read, the Big East wants them as football-only members. It seems to me that the Big East has too many teams that do not participate in football, so it would be easy enough to add Navy and Army since they are independents in football only.
Quote from: valpo04 on October 02, 2011, 06:59:31 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 02, 2011, 06:47:32 PM
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7051020/presidents-chancellors-give-commissioner-ok-expand-big-east-conference)
it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens with this. i'm curious though as to why army and navy wouldn't be members in all sports? would they be football only members, or everything but football?
From what I've read, the Big East wants them as football-only members. It seems to me that the Big East has too many teams that do not participate in football, so it would be easy enough to add Navy and Army since they are independents in football only.
that's what i had guessed. they may compete better in football in the big east than in the other sports, where they seem to have a good thing going in the patriot league.
Well never mind, my sources say TCU will accept the invite extended by the Big 12 today. This is huge for my graduate school, much better than joining the Big East for all sports, and gets us competing against the big schools in TX on a yearly basis again :thumbsup:
this is a great move for tcu and for the big 12. and hopefully this will help persuade mizzou to stick around.
The Big East's BCS football status will now be in jeopardy I would imagine with the move by TCU. If Mizzou moves to the SEC and the Big 12 wants to get back to twelve schools, this might finally be the end of big time Big East football and the end of the Big East at least as we know it IMO. Hello ripple effect. Hell, even if Mizzou stays, havoc could still ensue if the Big 12 wants to get to twelve. Where is BYU in all of this? Very interesting stuff.
apparently byu won't play on sundays, which is a problem for a lot of sports in the bcs conferences. which is something that i hadn't thought of. louisville and cincinnati are interesting prospects for the big 12, since apparently they're trying to get out of the big east.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 06, 2011, 01:31:29 PM
apparently byu won't play on sundays, which is a problem for a lot of sports in the bcs conferences. which is something that i hadn't thought of. louisville and cincinnati are interesting prospects for the big 12, since apparently they're trying to get out of the big east.
This is also why whenever BYU makes the NCAA Tournament, whether the men or the women, they have to be placed in Thursday-Saturday brackets. The NCAA never seems to make a big to do about it, they just plan for them to play on Thursday-Saturday.
Quote from: valporun on October 06, 2011, 04:57:33 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 06, 2011, 01:31:29 PM
apparently byu won't play on sundays, which is a problem for a lot of sports in the bcs conferences. which is something that i hadn't thought of. louisville and cincinnati are interesting prospects for the big 12, since apparently they're trying to get out of the big east.
This is also why whenever BYU makes the NCAA Tournament, whether the men or the women, they have to be placed in Thursday-Saturday brackets. The NCAA never seems to make a big to do about it, they just plan for them to play on Thursday-Saturday.
i never realized the ncaa made that concession for them. from what i've heard, the big 12 would prefer not to have to deal with it if they don't have to, which was why they opted to go for tcu first. if they opt for further expansion, they may not be able to avoid it though.
Playing on Sundays is the only thing holding BYU back from some big time weekend exposure on ESPN, that's for sure. Their religious convictions will continue to hold regardless of what conference(s) vettes/vies for their membership.
The Big-12 extending an invite to TCU is possibly Texas finally saying that they have to put a long time angst behind them for fear of losing the auto-bid for the BCS. The Big East, as it will be, will only have 6 schools, and they need 7 to continue to have the BCS auto bid. They'll have to really scrap around for a football school, but what really hurts the Big East is their basketball tournament will not have the same aura and tradition that has made one of the more exciting major conference tournaments to tune into in March. The Big East always had one or two surprise teams that would step up and make the big upset or noise of maybe bumping out the big name or making a name for themselves in the bubble picture.
This is what most of this conference realignment is doing to fanbases. They are being ripped apart by the greed that schools are seeking by trying to go to conferences where they might be competitive again, and rebuild fanbases at the expense of the student-athlete, who has become the most volatile pawn in all of this mess. This is the reason Valpo went to a bus league like the Horizon League, to benefit our student-athletes in the classroom, not our overall athletic budget and image through ESPN.
It isn't Texas putting it behind them, it is more Baylor and Texas Tech. UT will always have the best recruits in Texas in just about every sport, and that will never change regardless of TCU and how they perform due to UT's massive athletics budget. Baylor and TTU live off of the same recruits as TCU, but TCU is just able to better make those players fit into their system. With that, Baylor and TTU hoped to never invite either a TCU, SMU, Houston, or Rice into their biggest recruiting bonus versus the other schools, higher level of competition in conference. With these changes in alignment, they had to make a move that they hoped never would be :)
SMU and TCU had some great teams in the late40's and early 50's. Doak Walker and Kyle Roat starred for the mustangs in the late 40's and Jim Swink for the horn frogs in the early 50's. Nice to see TCU back in the fold and hopefully SMU will be there also.
Some may recall that the late Dr. Jim Wacker, a 1959 Valpo graduate, was the TCU coach for nine years, turning the program from an also ran into a team that got a Bluebonnet Bowl Invitation. He later coached at Minnesota.
Yes, I noticed that on TCU's wikipedia page as well. Good connection!
ND's Brey wants to add Memphis, Temple and Houston:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-10-08/mike-brey-to-jim-boeheim-notre-dame-never-wavered-on-big-east (http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-10-08/mike-brey-to-jim-boeheim-notre-dame-never-wavered-on-big-east)
Quote from: wh on October 09, 2011, 01:30:51 AM
ND's Brey wants to add Memphis, Temple and Houston:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-10-08/mike-brey-to-jim-boeheim-notre-dame-never-wavered-on-big-east (http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-10-08/mike-brey-to-jim-boeheim-notre-dame-never-wavered-on-big-east)
I bet Brey doesn't want the in-state competition Butler would present.
http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2011/10/11/big-east-probably-not/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2011/10/11/big-east-probably-not/)
I just came across this David Woods article from a few days ago. He's saying what knowledgeable sports writers and reasonable fans have been saying all along - Butler isn't going anywhere. He makes two especially strong points:
- Anyone who spent time worrying or wondering whether Butler would leave the Horizon League has unnecessarily wasted brain space.
- He hasn't seen any reliable source report the Big East is pining for basketball schools such as Butler, Xavier, VCU or Richmond.
Let me add another - Butler would be completely out of their league in nearly every sport other than men's basketball.
Quote from: wh on October 23, 2011, 08:11:24 PM
http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2011/10/11/big-east-probably-not/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/butler/2011/10/11/big-east-probably-not/)
I just came across this David Woods article from a few days ago. He's saying what knowledgeable sports writers and reasonable fans have been saying all along - Butler isn't going anywhere. He makes two especially strong points:
- Anyone who spent time worrying or wondering whether Butler would leave the Horizon League has unnecessarily wasted brain space.
- He hasn't seen any reliable source report the Big East is pining for basketball schools such as Butler, Xavier, VCU or Richmond.
Let me add another - Butler would be completely out of their league in nearly every sport other than men's basketball.
I had the same thought. If Butler thought their basketball success would trend over to other sports, the current record isn't showing it. For fall sports, Butler's record last year was VERY impressive, winning Men's soccer, women's soccer and the Volleyball tourney after finishing seond. However, this year they are 7th in men's soccer, 5th in women's soccer and fifth in volleyball.
Valpo at the same time is 1st in men's soccer, 3rd in women's soccer and 3rd in volleyball. Milwaukee is really taking off after their basketball win, now being 1st in women's soccer and volleyball and 5th in men's soccer, all better than Butler.
As for football I just checked and found that over the 17 years we've both (Butler and us) been in the PFL, they have won a total of 7 games more than we have. Don't think they'll be upgrading football to join the Big East.
It is the nature of mid-major sports to be up and down. any notion of "dominating" across the board and thus looking to move up, conference wise, is just not going to happen.
I just don't see any circumstance where Butler would be added to the Big East either. They have enough basketball schools and still want a slice of that football money pie. Any all sports school will always get preference over Butler, which is why they are considering such schools as UCF, ECU, Houston, SMU, etc.
Quote from: valpotx on October 24, 2011, 04:23:26 PM
I just don't see any circumstance where Butler would be added to the Big East either. They have enough basketball schools and still want a slice of that football money pie. Any all sports school will always get preference over Butler, which is why they are considering such schools as UCF, ECU, Houston, SMU, etc.
Apparently the Big 12 just picked up West Virginia. I'm not sure why that happened. They fit the aspects of the Big East very well. A football school, with a bigger name basketball coach, that would have been competitive in the Big East for both with no problems. I guess conference insecurity would be a good reason to leave, but yet the money has changed the game too much for it's own good.
Yes, Missouri is leaving and WVU will be in. This is an upgrade in just about every sport for the conference, as Missouri hasn't competed well in sports for many years (they will get blown out in the SEC for several years). The A&M for TCU trade is basically a split in all sports, though A&M has a small leg up in some of the smaller ones.
All in all, the Big 12 trading Missouri/A&M for WVU/TCU is an upgrade in sports, though WVU brings down the academic side unfortunately.
Valpo to the Big East.....laughable.
Who said that was even a remote possibility? Maybe I missed it.
Notre Dame should seriously consider moving to the Horizon!!
Football has dramatically declined, but their name guarantees them that they can remain independent, and although very good other programs, the Horizon could work on moving up by adding ND.
ND Football -- the next University of Chicago.
Missouri formally in the SEC now. I found this comment very amusing from Missouri.
"In joining the SEC, MU partners with universities distinguished for their academic programs and their emphasis on student success."
I know that you want to build up excitement in your fan base and alumni, but "distinguished academic programs" and "student success" in the SEC? Vanderbilt yes, Texas A&M kind of.....then?? ??? That is not to take credit away from non-athletes at these schools, but scandals galore is what I believe they should have said. :lol:
The key term above is "distinguished."
Loved this shot from Bama/LSU game. Knew it would be an instant classic. Remember Bama fan, it is just football and you are there for the "education."
http://kegsneggsblog.com/2011/11/05/a-message-to-a-crying-alabama-fan/ (http://kegsneggsblog.com/2011/11/05/a-message-to-a-crying-alabama-fan/)
i died a little inside when my tigers made it official. they are now the third team in the sec with a tiger mascot, and the first in the sec east (at least until the divisions are realigned, and they join lsu and auburn in the west). it'll be interesting to see when they can actually join the conference, since their exit will be delayed by the wvu-big east suit/countersuit issues.
This conference realignment stuff is just a bunch of silliness masquerading as "important" decisions made by grown men whose declarations of "doing the right thing for the student athletes" ring hollow and who, deep down, know better than to do what they are doing. Paul
BYU turns down the Big East:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7271078/byu-ends-negotiations-not-join-big-east-according-report (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7271078/byu-ends-negotiations-not-join-big-east-according-report)
Quote from: wh on November 23, 2011, 02:13:16 AM
BYU turns down the Big East:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7271078/byu-ends-negotiations-not-join-big-east-according-report (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7271078/byu-ends-negotiations-not-join-big-east-according-report)
apparently somebody's refusing to become geographically challenged... it was rough enough with tcu joining the big east, ou/ok state/texas/texas tech looking at the pac 12, and then a&m and mizzou going to the sec. but these rocky mountain area schools going to the big east? ridiculous! :banghead: they need to just change the name of the conference already.
Hot new rumor is that Maryland and Rutgers are in negotiations to join the Big 10, which would bring the Big 10 to 14 teams:
http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=8644587&wjb (http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=8644587&wjb)
Quote from: valpopal on November 17, 2012, 04:25:36 PM
Hot new rumor is that Maryland and Rutgers are in negotiations to join the Big 10, which would bring the Big 10 to 14 teams:
http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=8644587&wjb (http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=8644587&wjb)
If memory serves, those were also rumored last time (when they decided to add Nebraska).
As a Michigan man, I have to say contraction sounds like a better idea than expansion with worthless additions.
What would be the corresponding additions to HL expansion? IPFW and Lipscomb?
(is there an emoticon for "vomiting in an oil drum"?)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 17, 2012, 11:08:29 PM
As a Michigan man, I have to say contraction sounds like a better idea than expansion with worthless additions.
As a Maryland man: >:(
whoops.
Sources say its a done deal, MD to the B1G.
Back in 2002, I watched MD beat Indiana for the championship from my room in Alumni Hall.
Never would have imagined they'd one day be in the same conference.
Quote from: valpo04 on November 19, 2012, 09:35:08 AM
Sources say its a done deal, MD to the B1G.
Back in 2002, I watched MD beat Indiana for the championship from my room in Alumni Hall.
Never would have imagined they'd one day be in the same conference.
Having a tremendous amount of Maryland ties myself I really find this to be a crazy idea. Didn't the ACC just raise the conference exit fees to some exorbitant figure? What connection is there for Maryland to want to be in a predominantly Midwestern conference? Losing every rival??? I can't imagine that fans are going to be as fired up, especially in basketball, for Maryland vs Nebraska, Maryland vs Northwestern, Maryland vs Iowa, Maryland vs Illinois as they are for just about any other current ACC opponent. Can you imagine the upcoming hype for a yearly Maryland vs Notre Dame match up? Not sure I understand the rational. Can you lay it out for me valpo04?
FWAlum, it's probably a case of Maryland wants attention by being at the top of the conference with coaches that are new/younger compared to the ones that made them successful ten years ago. Sad that these big schools want to bring all kinds of athletic attention, but forget that these student-athletes need to be in the classroom just as much as they need to be on the court/field improving/getting better. Of course, the big conferences only look at the money involved, as do the athletic departments, but it shows why the BCS conferences have so many troubles with graduation rates. Too much time on planes and in hotels than in the classroom.
If Maryland is a done deal then so is Rutgers, right?
Maryland and Rutgers will bring in major markets for the BTN. Increased markets mean increased revenue. These schools also bring in eastern partners for Penn State.
Now the question becomes who's next in the ACC, if anyone? Fla. St. to the Big 12? Clemson? GT to the B1G? How about Virginia. VT to the SEC? NC to the SEC? Miami about to get hammered by sanctions? Who knows, but it sure is interesting following all of this realignment stuff.
With Rutgers about to leave the Big East, I would imagine New Mexico State is thrilled. ;)
Quote from: crusaderjoe on November 19, 2012, 12:30:54 PM
If Maryland is a done deal then so is Rutgers, right?
Maryland and Rutgers will bring in major markets for the BTN. Increased markets mean increased revenue. These schools also bring in eastern partners for Penn State.
Now the question becomes who's next in the ACC, if anyone? Fla. St. to the Big 12? Clemson? GT to the B1G? How about Virginia. VT to the SEC? NC to the SEC? Miami about to get hammered by sanctions? Who knows, but it sure is interesting following all of this realignment stuff.
With Rutgers about to leave the Big East, I would imagine New Mexico State is thrilled. ;)
maybe the big 10 wants to go back to the odd number of schools it had for so long... ;)
Quote from: FWalum on November 19, 2012, 11:23:10 AM
Quote from: valpo04 on November 19, 2012, 09:35:08 AM
Sources say its a done deal, MD to the B1G.
Back in 2002, I watched MD beat Indiana for the championship from my room in Alumni Hall.
Never would have imagined they'd one day be in the same conference.
Having a tremendous amount of Maryland ties myself I really find this to be a crazy idea. Didn't the ACC just raise the conference exit fees to some exorbitant figure? What connection is there for Maryland to want to be in a predominantly Midwestern conference? Losing every rival??? I can't imagine that fans are going to be as fired up, especially in basketball, for Maryland vs Nebraska, Maryland vs Northwestern, Maryland vs Iowa, Maryland vs Illinois as they are for just about any other current ACC opponent. Can you imagine the upcoming hype for a yearly Maryland vs Notre Dame match up? Not sure I understand the rational. Can you lay it out for me valpo04?
This article lays it all out as well as I've seen anywhere: http://www.testudotimes.com/2012/11/18/3659926/marylands-probably-going-to-the-big-ten-but-why (http://www.testudotimes.com/2012/11/18/3659926/marylands-probably-going-to-the-big-ten-but-why)
Quote from: crusaderjoe on November 19, 2012, 12:30:54 PM
If Maryland is a done deal then so is Rutgers, right?
Maryland and Rutgers will bring in major markets for the BTN. Increased markets mean increased revenue. These schools also bring in eastern partners for Penn State.
Now the question becomes who's next in the ACC, if anyone? Fla. St. to the Big 12? Clemson? GT to the B1G? How about Virginia. VT to the SEC? NC to the SEC? Miami about to get hammered by sanctions? Who knows, but it sure is interesting following all of this realignment stuff.
With Rutgers about to leave the Big East, I would imagine New Mexico State is thrilled. ;)
I wouldn't be surprised to see Clemson and FSU go to the SEC.
As for additions to the ACC, rumors were already flying that UConn will replace MD.
I think the general issue with the ACC is that they were trying to be a premiere basketball conference in a time of premiere football conferences. There was also this general feeling of not being wanted by the ACC. They are very North Carolina-centric. They continue to hold the ACCT in Greensboro, even though the conference footprint now goes from Florida to Massachusetts.
Quote from: valpo04 on November 19, 2012, 01:00:24 PMQuote from: crusaderjoe on November 19, 2012, 12:30:54 PMIf Maryland is a done deal then so is Rutgers, right? Maryland and Rutgers will bring in major markets for the BTN. Increased markets mean increased revenue. These schools also bring in eastern partners for Penn State. Now the question becomes who's next in the ACC, if anyone? Fla. St. to the Big 12? Clemson? GT to the B1G? How about Virginia. VT to the SEC? NC to the SEC? Miami about to get hammered by sanctions? Who knows, but it sure is interesting following all of this realignment stuff. With Rutgers about to leave the Big East, I would imagine New Mexico State is thrilled. ;)
I wouldn't be surprised to see Clemson and FSU go to the SEC. As for additions to the ACC, rumors were already flying that UConn will replace MD. I think the general issue with the ACC is that they were trying to be a premiere basketball conference in a time of premiere football conferences. There was also this general feeling of not being wanted by the ACC. They are very North Carolina-centric. They continue to hold the ACCT in Greensboro, even though the conference footprint now goes from Florida to Massachusetts.
I just don't understand the Big Ten adding Maryland and Rutgers from a football perspective. It takes a mediocre brand of football and waters it down even more. It was obviously a financial move about the Big Ten network and television markets, etc. Just a horrible football (and basketball) move IMO.......not a lot of sizzle there.
Silliness.
Paul
Boise State, San Diego State, and BYU will all probably go back to the MWC. That may open a spot for NMSU in the MWC to get to 14 schools. They are without a home, and it would make sense in the footprint of the conference. It will be interesting to see who, if any schools, joins the Big East to replace the schools leaving. If you are a football-oriented school, that conference is going the way of the WAC...
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8653727/boise-state-broncos-sdsu-aztecs-byu-cougars-talk-mwc-return-sources-say (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8653727/boise-state-broncos-sdsu-aztecs-byu-cougars-talk-mwc-return-sources-say)
Quote from: valpo04 on November 19, 2012, 01:00:24 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on November 19, 2012, 12:30:54 PM
If Maryland is a done deal then so is Rutgers, right?
Maryland and Rutgers will bring in major markets for the BTN. Increased markets mean increased revenue. These schools also bring in eastern partners for Penn State.
Now the question becomes who's next in the ACC, if anyone? Fla. St. to the Big 12? Clemson? GT to the B1G? How about Virginia. VT to the SEC? NC to the SEC? Miami about to get hammered by sanctions? Who knows, but it sure is interesting following all of this realignment stuff.
With Rutgers about to leave the Big East, I would imagine New Mexico State is thrilled. ;)
I wouldn't be surprised to see Clemson and FSU go to the SEC.
As for additions to the ACC, rumors were already flying that UConn will replace MD.
I think the general issue with the ACC is that they were trying to be a premiere basketball conference in a time of premiere football conferences. There was also this general feeling of not being wanted by the ACC. They are very North Carolina-centric. They continue to hold the ACCT in Greensboro, even though the conference footprint now goes from Florida to Massachusetts.
While I agree with you that the ACC is North Carolina-centric, I think the ACC was trying to become a premier football conference player with the addition of Miami several years ago. It's not that Miami really expanded the conference footprint—what actually did it was Miami bringing along BC because of its ties to its NE alumni. I certainly will not be one to fault the ACC for getting Miami or going to 12 schools since that was the number required for a conference championship game. Post expansion though, from a football standpoint you have to figure things did not go as planned. Miami football wise has been a shell of its former self. FSU was down. Syracuse and Pitt are then brought in and the ACC expands its conference footprint once again, for markets or to starve off the potential for raiding—but that doesn't help its football. IMO, a school like Maryland, who was a charter member of the ACC, is probably looking at the conference wondering who all these guys are now, sees all the money dangling from the Big Ten, and says "see ya." I don't know, Maryland's move makes sense to me not withstanding Tobacco Road's pull.
Just heard a rumor that the next 2 schools that could join the Big 10, or 12 or whatever in the next few years would be UNC and VA...maybe that is why Coach K has been expressing concern about the viability of the ACC
No offense, valpo04, but that kind of addition is what I'm talking about.
HOWEVA...a 16-team conference...what's the point? Far better to have 2 8-team conferences, geographically aligned, as I've said before, for the sake of nonrevenue sports at least. In a 16-team conference, even with 9 conference games (football), that only leaves 2 crossovers between 8-team divisions. One protected matchup--like UM-OSU--would ensure that Michigan sees UNC, or UVA, etc., once every 8 years.
What's the freaking point of being in a conference then? UNC would see their (technically) non-con friend Notre Dame more often than they'd see their B1G buddy UM.
Ridiculous!
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 20, 2012, 07:59:40 PM
No offense, valpo04, but that kind of addition is what I'm talking about.
What, UVA? Yuck. They are down right awful in basketball and football.
The Big Ten has two years to win a National Championship in basketball before Maryland comes in and becomes the last Big Ten team to win one :thumbsup:
Big Ten might not be all that interested in UNC after tonight ;D :troll:
It would be a big surprise if UNC left the ACC for the Big 10. I guess anything can happen, but they would be leaving a historic rivalry with Duke...
Quote from: valpo04 on November 20, 2012, 08:24:53 PMThe Big Ten has two years to win a National Championship in basketball before Maryland comes in and becomes the last Big Ten team to win one
Touché. As far as fruit that was out there to be picked, I'm fine with Maryland and Rutgers as the best of a realistic post-Notre Dame lot.
My problem is that there was no need for picking. To repeat myself yet again, though in a different vein:
why not a BCS version of the Pioneer League--where the FB and MBB (and WBB for IX' sake) form their own mega-conferences, but leave everyone else back where they started, so that Big Ten girls' golf teams need not fly from Lincoln NE to College Park MD. Sigh.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 21, 2012, 10:01:52 AM
Quote from: valpo04 on November 20, 2012, 08:24:53 PMThe Big Ten has two years to win a National Championship in basketball before Maryland comes in and becomes the last Big Ten team to win one
Touché. As far as fruit that was out there to be picked, I'm fine with Maryland and Rutgers as the best of a realistic post-Notre Dame lot.
My problem is that there was no need for picking. To repeat myself yet again, though in a different vein:
why not a BCS version of the Pioneer League--where the FB and MBB (and WBB for IX' sake) form their own mega-conferences, but leave everyone else back where they started, so that Big Ten girls' golf teams need not fly from Lincoln NE to College Park MD. Sigh.
I agree with that. In the same vein, I wish there were a way Maryland could stay in the ACC for lacrosse, especially with Syracuse coming in.
University of Denver will leave the WAC and join the Summit League:
http://www.omaha.com/article/20121127/MAVS/711279885/1001 (http://www.omaha.com/article/20121127/MAVS/711279885/1001)
This move probably says more about the WAC's instability than it does about Oakland's potential move to the HL I would imagine--but I guess you never know when trying to read between the lines when it comes to conference realignment.
Wow, I did not expect Denver to go to the Summit. Louisville is rumored to be the school targeted by the ACC, over UConn, which just makes me laugh since UConn has actively campaigned for the ACC for years now. Nothing like being second fiddle, and in Cincinnati's case, not even truly considered lol.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8685360/acc-expected-vote-add-louisville-cardinals-source-says (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/8685360/acc-expected-vote-add-louisville-cardinals-source-says)
Also, poor poor WAC! They have to accept Grand Canyon University from D-2 to just add members, and are now losing members to the Summit?? It is a positive to see that Utah Valley found a home, though it is also in the rundown WAC (10/2012 acceptance of WAC invite). They have been an independent for many years, and always second fiddle to other schools when conferences were selecting members. They had a good men's basketball team a few years ago that was getting some press, but their independent status definitely hurt them.
I completely missed Idaho joining the Big Sky for all sports except football as well. Good to see they found a home for their other sports. That leaves only New Mexico State to find a home for their football program and other sports that make more sense (MWC maybe in the near future with other movement coming). The WAC without NMSU will be Seattle, Cal-State Bakersfield, Utah Valley, and Grand Canyon, just another Great West Conference....
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/10/19/idaho-will-return-to-big-sky-conference/ (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/10/19/idaho-will-return-to-big-sky-conference/)
Here is a decent website that looks at conference realignment over the years. Some are not as updated, while others are current:
http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference-realignment-grid/#A10 (http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference-realignment-grid/#A10)
Quote from: crusaderjoe on November 27, 2012, 10:38:33 PM
University of Denver will leave the WAC and join the Summit League:
http://www.omaha.com/article/20121127/MAVS/711279885/1001 (http://www.omaha.com/article/20121127/MAVS/711279885/1001)
This move probably says more about the WAC's instability than it does about Oakland's potential move to the HL I would imagine--but I guess you never know when trying to read between the lines when it comes to conference realignment.
Wow, that is whack!
It is pretty funny when UNO says their mission is similar to UD's. Denver is a very high academic school with a big endowment. It would be like Green Bay saying they had a similar mission to Valpo's.
The Big East is on life-support. In the last couple of years they have lost West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Rutgers, and now Louisville as of today. Am I missing anybody? UConn and Cincinnati are lobbying hard to get out (rightfully so.....). The replacement schools the Big East has added make for a disjointed conference with a very weird mix. No commonality of geography, school type, school size, school profile, school mission.....just a hodge podge. The DePaul move to the Horizon League makes more and more sense for them and for us.
Who is even remaining in the Big East as of now? Villanova, Providence, UConn, Cincinnati, DePaul, Marquette, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Gerogetown.
Of that list, I guess only DePaul would potentially be a mutual fit given geography and alternative viable options. IMO. But it seems like DePaul could make some real sense. (But they need to add baseball to make me happy) :)
Quote from: Valposter on November 28, 2012, 03:54:55 PMThe Big East is on life-support. In the last couple of years they have lost West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Rutgers, and now Louisville as of today. Am I missing anybody? UConn and Cincinnati are lobbying hard to get out (rightfully so.....). The replacement schools the Big East has added make for a disjointed conference with a very weird mix. No commonality of geography, school type, school size, school profile, school mission.....just a hodge podge. The DePaul move to the Horizon League makes more and more sense for them and for us. Who is even remaining in the Big East as of now? Villanova, Providence, UConn, Cincinnati, DePaul, Marquette, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Gerogetown. Of that list, I guess only DePaul would potentially be a mutual fit given geography and alternative viable options. IMO. But it seems like DePaul could make some real sense. (But they need to add baseball to make me happy) :)
Let me clarify my last sentence. What I mean is that Villanove, Providence, UConn, Seton Hall, St. Johns and Georgetown are too far east to fit the HL footprint. And UC doesn't fit because of their football program. And Marquette doesn't fit because I think they would look to the A10 first. That leaves DePaul, which, as mentioned in previous posts here, really does seem to make sense mutually.
Quote from: Valposter on November 28, 2012, 03:54:55 PM
The Big East is on life-support. In the last couple of years they have lost West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Rutgers, and now Louisville as of today. Am I missing anybody?
Go back a few more years and you can add BC, VT and Miami.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on November 27, 2012, 10:38:33 PMUniversity of Denver will leave the WAC and join the Summit League:
They were in the WAC for... four months? Weird.
I hadn't followed the WAC - I didn't realize they were imploding enough to allow a team like Denver on-board in the first place.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 21, 2012, 10:01:52 AM
Quote from: valpo04 on November 20, 2012, 08:24:53 PMThe Big Ten has two years to win a National Championship in basketball before Maryland comes in and becomes the last Big Ten team to win one
Touché. As far as fruit that was out there to be picked, I'm fine with Maryland and Rutgers as the best of a realistic post-Notre Dame lot.
My problem is that there was no need for picking. To repeat myself yet again, though in a different vein:
why not a BCS version of the Pioneer League--where the FB and MBB (and WBB for IX' sake) form their own mega-conferences, but leave everyone else back where they started, so that Big Ten girls' golf teams need not fly from Lincoln NE to College Park MD. Sigh.
As I am sure you are well aware, non revenue sports aren't factored into the conference realignments. It can be debated if they should be or not, but I don't think they are too concerned about it.
Quote from: Valposter on November 28, 2012, 03:54:55 PM
The Big East is on life-support. In the last couple of years they have lost West Virginia, Pitt, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Rutgers, and now Louisville as of today. Am I missing anybody? UConn and Cincinnati are lobbying hard to get out (rightfully so.....). The replacement schools the Big East has added make for a disjointed conference with a very weird mix. No commonality of geography, school type, school size, school profile, school mission.....just a hodge podge. The DePaul move to the Horizon League makes more and more sense for them and for us.
Who is even remaining in the Big East as of now? Villanova, Providence, UConn, Cincinnati, DePaul, Marquette, Seton Hall, St. Johns, Gerogetown.
Of that list, I guess only DePaul would potentially be a mutual fit given geography and alternative viable options. IMO. But it seems like DePaul could make some real sense. (But they need to add baseball to make me happy) :)
I think it makes more sense for DePaul to return to Conference USA than it does to join the Horizon League. Not sure if C-USA would allow them to return, but it's a pretty big fall from grace to go from the Big East to the Horizon League. Even if they're closer to the HL level than they think...I believe aspirations are higher at DePaul.
@McMurphyESPN: Hooray more realignment! Chicago State leaving Great West for WAC in 2013, sources told @espn
Quote from: valpo04 on December 05, 2012, 10:34:49 AM
@McMurphyESPN: Hooray more realignment! Chicago State leaving Great West for WAC in 2013, sources told @espn
http://espn.go.com/chicago/college-sports/story/_/id/8713935/chicago-state-cougars-joining-western-athletic-conference-according-sources (http://espn.go.com/chicago/college-sports/story/_/id/8713935/chicago-state-cougars-joining-western-athletic-conference-according-sources)
Chicago State will be the second member to leave the Great West Conference for the WAC along with Utah Valley State. The addition of those two schools next season will give the WAC seven members: New Mexico State, Cal-Bakersfield, Idaho, Seattle and Grand Canyon University.I guess that is no more travel than the Great West conference they were in.
well, the UM fight song does refer to us as the "Champions of the West".
...
yowza. There's the WAC trying to "capture" that "Chicagoland market"...
No one wants to be the first tent to fold, so musical chairs continue. Just a microcosm of the instability we live with everyday as members of a once proud society in severe decline.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha...the WAC has gone from dying to laughable
Yup, can just see Comcast Chicago considering the need to show the top WAC battle of Chicago State and New Mexico State, with more empty seats in the Convocation Center than Valpo has chairback seats in the ARC. Dave Kaplan would have a field day with that, although lately Comcast has been showing local games with Jordan Bernfield and Jeff Dickerson, so who knows...
Quote from: valpotx on December 05, 2012, 12:13:49 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahaha...the WAC has gone from dying to laughable
meanwhile, the big east is slowly dying every day. say what you want about their additions from this past summer, but i'm not sure that's going to be enough to save them. if nothing else, maybe they'll relocate out west and become the big west....
In the big picture though this is bad for all Mid Majors. The more teams the BCS conferences gobble up, the less interest and relevance the other teams have. Bigger conferences mean less out of conference opportunities for scheduling. Why play Valpo when you have a really tough conference season. Schedule more bottom feeder schools to pad the record and hope to be above .500 in conference. Notre Dame has been doing it for years anyway, and rightfully so. The gap between the haves and the have nots is getting wider every day.
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 06, 2012, 12:01:01 PMIn the big picture though this is bad for all Mid Majors. The more teams the BCS conferences gobble up, the less interest and relevance the other teams have. Bigger conferences mean less out of conference opportunities for scheduling. Why play Valpo when you have a really tough conference season. Schedule more bottom feeder schools to pad the record and hope to be above .500 in conference. Notre Dame has been doing it for years anyway, and rightfully so. The gap between the haves and the have nots is getting wider every day.
Milanmiracle, if you want to take your concerns a step further. Many in the national media are predicting that within 5-10 years that conference re-allignment will result in 4 Super Conferences, one each in the East, South, Midwest, and West. You could imagine that being the ACC, SEC, Big 10, and Pac 10, repsectively. With each conference having 16-20 teams. And, at that point, those four Super Conferences would get together to broker a deal whereby they leave the NCAA, thereby cutting them out of the $3 billion dollars they are paid by member schools for administration and oversight of college athletics and the revenue they receive for television contracts for Bowl Games and March Madness. So, the NCAA would be "left" with the remaining 200-250 mid-major programs, and NCAA March Madness has just turned into another NIT Tournament for also-rans. In that scenario, the mid-majors would be completelly left out of the college football and college basketball post-season tournaments of relevance.
Quote from: Valposter on December 07, 2012, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 06, 2012, 12:01:01 PMIn the big picture though this is bad for all Mid Majors. The more teams the BCS conferences gobble up, the less interest and relevance the other teams have. Bigger conferences mean less out of conference opportunities for scheduling. Why play Valpo when you have a really tough conference season. Schedule more bottom feeder schools to pad the record and hope to be above .500 in conference. Notre Dame has been doing it for years anyway, and rightfully so. The gap between the haves and the have nots is getting wider every day.
Milanmiracle, if you want to take your concerns a step further. Many in the national media are predicting that within 5-10 years that conference re-allignment will result in 4 Super Conferences, one each in the East, South, Midwest, and West. You could imagine that being the ACC, SEC, Big 10, and Pac 10, repsectively. With each conference having 16-20 teams. And, at that point, those four Super Conferences would get together to broker a deal whereby they leave the NCAA, thereby cutting them out of the $3 billion dollars they are paid by member schools for administration and oversight of college athletics and the revenue they receive for television contracts for Bowl Games and March Madness. So, the NCAA would be "left" with the remaining 200-250 mid-major programs, and NCAA March Madness has just turned into another NIT Tournament for also-rans. In that scenario, the mid-majors would be completelly left out of the college football and college basketball post-season tournaments of relevance.
Just curious, but where is the Big 12 in your analysis? IMO, the Big 12 is in a much more stable position than the ACC is right now and if I had money, I'd bet it on the Big 12 as being one of the top four conferences. The Big 12's grant of rights should provide it with more stability as a conference than the ACC's exit fee will (see Maryland). It is funny how conference realignment can change perceptions on a dime or over a period of time. A year or so ago I would have said the ACC is more stable but I don't think that is true any longer, unless of course ND becomes a full member or Texas decides to move to the Big 10 anyway as team #15. Doubtful either of those will ever happen though.
If it kills the NCAA tournament, I'll spend March focusing on spring training and be just fine.
If it doesn't, I'll enjoy the NCAA tournament same as I always have and ignore the big boys as I have lately. And be just fine.
Big East just signed a $60 million TV contract for football. Very small contract for college football. The non-football basketball schools were not happy with the contract and rumor is they are looking to break away from Big East to form a new basketball conference. Big East schools include St Johns, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquett, Depaul, Providence, and Seton Hall. They would look to recruit similar profile basketball schools from other conferences (A 10, MVC, etc.). Heard Xavier, Dayton, VCU, Creighton mentioned. Valpo...............?
Big East Basketball schools discuss breaking off on their own:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-10/big-east-conference-expansion-dissolve-georgetown-marquette-villanova#comments (http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-10/big-east-conference-expansion-dissolve-georgetown-marquette-villanova#comments)
Some of us here were talking about the potential of a Big East split awhile back. I guess we'll see in the next six months whether this happens per the article. If the breakup does in fact happen, I hope VU changes its five year athletic plan to a two-three year immediate athletic plan with a heavy emphasis on the flagship.
Quote from: Valposter on December 11, 2012, 05:25:50 PM
Big East just signed a $60 million TV contract for football. Very small contract for college football. The non-football basketball schools were not happy with the contract and rumor is they are looking to break away from Big East to form a new basketball conference. Big East schools include St Johns, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquett, Depaul, Providence, and Seton Hall. They would look to recruit similar profile basketball schools from other conferences (A 10, MVC, etc.). Heard Xavier, Dayton, VCU, Creighton mentioned. Valpo...............?
big east football. that's all you need to know as to why the contract is the size it is.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 11, 2012, 05:57:57 PM
Big East Basketball schools discuss breaking off on their own:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-10/big-east-conference-expansion-dissolve-georgetown-marquette-villanova#comments (http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-12-10/big-east-conference-expansion-dissolve-georgetown-marquette-villanova#comments)
Some of us here were talking about the potential of a Big East split awhile back. I guess we'll see in the next six months whether this happens per the article. If the breakup does in fact happen, I hope VU changes its five year athletic plan to a two-three year immediate athletic plan with a heavy emphasis on the flagship.
i saw something earlier (though i didn't read it too much) that involved some sort of absorption by the a-10. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source)
Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 07, 2012, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: Valposter on December 07, 2012, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 06, 2012, 12:01:01 PMIn the big picture though this is bad for all Mid Majors. The more teams the BCS conferences gobble up, the less interest and relevance the other teams have. Bigger conferences mean less out of conference opportunities for scheduling. Why play Valpo when you have a really tough conference season. Schedule more bottom feeder schools to pad the record and hope to be above .500 in conference. Notre Dame has been doing it for years anyway, and rightfully so. The gap between the haves and the have nots is getting wider every day.
Milanmiracle, if you want to take your concerns a step further. Many in the national media are predicting that within 5-10 years that conference re-allignment will result in 4 Super Conferences, one each in the East, South, Midwest, and West. You could imagine that being the ACC, SEC, Big 10, and Pac 10, repsectively. With each conference having 16-20 teams. And, at that point, those four Super Conferences would get together to broker a deal whereby they leave the NCAA, thereby cutting them out of the $3 billion dollars they are paid by member schools for administration and oversight of college athletics and the revenue they receive for television contracts for Bowl Games and March Madness. So, the NCAA would be "left" with the remaining 200-250 mid-major programs, and NCAA March Madness has just turned into another NIT Tournament for also-rans. In that scenario, the mid-majors would be completelly left out of the college football and college basketball post-season tournaments of relevance.
Just curious, but where is the Big 12 in your analysis? IMO, the Big 12 is in a much more stable position than the ACC is right now and if I had money, I'd bet it on the Big 12 as being one of the top four conferences. The Big 12's grant of rights should provide it with more stability as a conference than the ACC's exit fee will (see Maryland). It is funny how conference realignment can change perceptions on a dime or over a period of time. A year or so ago I would have said the ACC is more stable but I don't think that is true any longer, unless of course ND becomes a full member or Texas decides to move to the Big 10 anyway as team #15. Doubtful either of those will ever happen though.
Football-wise, the Big 12 may be more attractive, but not necessarily more stable. The ACC was stable until Maryland left for the Big Ten. Texas (UT) is the problem in the Big 12, and the previous SouthWestern Conf. The reason that the Big Ten works is that all teams have bought into the pitch that they are better together and share equally. When Texas was wanting a bigger piece of the pie of Big 12 a few years ago, Nebraska and Colorado saw the writing on the wall and were able to land favorably. Texas A&M and Missouri were tiring of the UT syndrome and bolted when an opportunity became available. I don't see how ND or Texas land in the Big Ten. ND has had Midwest exposure for decades, and covets the opportunities with their ACC arrangement - east coast prescence and built in football schedule for the ND Broadcasting Co. on Saturdays. Texas wants their own network, so that they don't have to share the revenue with the Big 12, and unless they change, I don't see the Big Ten calling. As for the Big Ten, they are all about getting a bigger footprint for the BTN. A year and a half ago I would have guessed Missouri, but now would look towards Syracuse, Louisville and Virginia Tech - populated areas in states that border the Big Ten currently. :twocents:
I guess it's "See ya, Big East, at least as how we've known ya":
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-13/big-east-s-non-football-schools-to-depart-league-n-y-post-says.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-13/big-east-s-non-football-schools-to-depart-league-n-y-post-says.html)
SO, HOW'S OUR NEW BASKETBALL ARENA COMING ALONG???
Quote from: covufan on December 12, 2012, 03:52:47 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 07, 2012, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: Valposter on December 07, 2012, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 06, 2012, 12:01:01 PMIn the big picture though this is bad for all Mid Majors. The more teams the BCS conferences gobble up, the less interest and relevance the other teams have. Bigger conferences mean less out of conference opportunities for scheduling. Why play Valpo when you have a really tough conference season. Schedule more bottom feeder schools to pad the record and hope to be above .500 in conference. Notre Dame has been doing it for years anyway, and rightfully so. The gap between the haves and the have nots is getting wider every day.
Milanmiracle, if you want to take your concerns a step further. Many in the national media are predicting that within 5-10 years that conference re-allignment will result in 4 Super Conferences, one each in the East, South, Midwest, and West. You could imagine that being the ACC, SEC, Big 10, and Pac 10, repsectively. With each conference having 16-20 teams. And, at that point, those four Super Conferences would get together to broker a deal whereby they leave the NCAA, thereby cutting them out of the $3 billion dollars they are paid by member schools for administration and oversight of college athletics and the revenue they receive for television contracts for Bowl Games and March Madness. So, the NCAA would be "left" with the remaining 200-250 mid-major programs, and NCAA March Madness has just turned into another NIT Tournament for also-rans. In that scenario, the mid-majors would be completelly left out of the college football and college basketball post-season tournaments of relevance.
Just curious, but where is the Big 12 in your analysis? IMO, the Big 12 is in a much more stable position than the ACC is right now and if I had money, I'd bet it on the Big 12 as being one of the top four conferences. The Big 12's grant of rights should provide it with more stability as a conference than the ACC's exit fee will (see Maryland). It is funny how conference realignment can change perceptions on a dime or over a period of time. A year or so ago I would have said the ACC is more stable but I don't think that is true any longer, unless of course ND becomes a full member or Texas decides to move to the Big 10 anyway as team #15. Doubtful either of those will ever happen though.
Football-wise, the Big 12 may be more attractive, but not necessarily more stable. The ACC was stable until Maryland left for the Big Ten. Texas (UT) is the problem in the Big 12, and the previous SouthWestern Conf. The reason that the Big Ten works is that all teams have bought into the pitch that they are better together and share equally. When Texas was wanting a bigger piece of the pie of Big 12 a few years ago, Nebraska and Colorado saw the writing on the wall and were able to land favorably. Texas A&M and Missouri were tiring of the UT syndrome and bolted when an opportunity became available. I don't see how ND or Texas land in the Big Ten. ND has had Midwest exposure for decades, and covets the opportunities with their ACC arrangement - east coast prescence and built in football schedule for the ND Broadcasting Co. on Saturdays. Texas wants their own network, so that they don't have to share the revenue with the Big 12, and unless they change, I don't see the Big Ten calling. As for the Big Ten, they are all about getting a bigger footprint for the BTN. A year and a half ago I would have guessed Missouri, but now would look towards Syracuse, Louisville and Virginia Tech - populated areas in states that border the Big Ten currently. :twocents:
You might be right about whether the Big 12 or ACC is more stable. Even though Texas and the LHN are in play with the Big 12, they do at least have a GOR that is in place. The same cannot be said for the ACC. Who knows anymore though with this conference realignment stuff. I've heard a rumor down here that if FSU goes to the Big 12 as some think, their taking Miami with them. If this happens, or if FSU/Clemson/VT/GT etc. make a move anywhere, be it the Big 10, SEC or Big 12, that will mark the end of the ACC as being one of the top four athletic conferences IMO. I would imagine speculation is really going to start running wild now with the pending break up of the Big East. Should be interesting on a number of fronts, including HL expansion and whether VU has any contingency back up plans in place should the dominoes start to negatively effect the HL.
Quote from: Valposter on December 11, 2012, 05:25:50 PM
Big East just signed a $60 million TV contract for football. Very small contract for college football. The non-football basketball schools were not happy with the contract and rumor is they are looking to break away from Big East to form a new basketball conference. Big East schools include St Johns, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquett, Depaul, Providence, and Seton Hall. They would look to recruit similar profile basketball schools from other conferences (A 10, MVC, etc.). Heard Xavier, Dayton, VCU, Creighton mentioned. Valpo...............?
Lots of rumors out there, including this from a guy in Milwaukee. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/bigeast14-d7815om-183439151.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/bigeast14-d7815om-183439151.html) No mention of Valpo, but depending on who else is involved, this could create an opportunity for Valpo if they're interested in moving. The MVC (Creighton) or A-10 (Xavier, SLU, Dayton, Butler) could be looking to replace teams. At this point, I have no idea what could happen ... I just know that nothing will surprise me.
Eh, if this is anathema posting this on a "Lutheran board", I don't care. (Y'all don't even have anathema anyway.)
But this should be the Catholic Conference and they should add Xavier, Dayton, SLU, Creighton (and twelfth? Duquesne? Siena? Loyola? Not Detroit, surely...) but not Butler/VCU.
Lutherans can get behind this too because then it opens up a perfect slot for us to come back and HAHA BUTLER SLAPPIES YOU CAN'T SHAKE US PUNX
{rather than add Gonzaga, St Mary etc there should just be a WCCC--west coast catholic conference--with them, and Santa Clara, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle...and ... um...well crap just found a link and someone already thought of it}
http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=15831 (http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=15831)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 13, 2012, 10:34:01 PM
But this should be the Catholic Conference and they should add Xavier, Dayton, SLU, Creighton (and twelfth? Duquesne? Siena? Loyola? Not Detroit, surely...) but not Butler/VCU.
The mill has produced some interesting news today. Dave Reynolds, a beat writer for Bradley (Missouri Valley), is reporting that announcements should be coming today concerning Creighton and Evansville. The word is that Creighton could join this "God Conference" as some are calling it and
Evansville could be departing for the Horizon League.
Even more significant, Reynolds is projecting
Valpo, UWM, Loyola, and UIC as potential replacements in the Valley should Creighton and Evansville depart. At this point, it seems mostly speculation but worth noting since word moves fast over social media. I certainly don't wanna jump the gun again like the "Anibal Sanchez to Cubs" debacle of the past 48 hours.
While no one with any of the schools involved is currently confirming any of this, this is some interesting potential news. At this point, Reynolds seems to be the only true source on this, but it's working its way around Twitter pretty well. This could be something to keep our eyes, ears open for...
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31942947.jpg)
IMO this whole greed-driven, conference-jumping exercise is a complete disgrace to Division-I athletics. I will continue to watch it unfold because who knows how it may effect our league or our program, but I don't like anything about it.
Completely agree, wh
In retrospect, maybe the HL waiting to announce Butler's replacement was the wise thing to do. This environment is totally crazy right now. Rick Pitino is quoted in ESPN that it's all about the mega football TV contracts. Maybe it's best to separate the BCS schools from the no football D-I schools. But who knows, in this crazy world, maybe the next league to fold could be the HL --- because they waited. :crazy:
Rick Pitino is right about all of this being about football, but with the new playoff system coming, everyone wants in that money pool.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 07, 2012, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: Valposter on December 07, 2012, 11:38:20 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 06, 2012, 12:01:01 PMIn the big picture though this is bad for all Mid Majors. The more teams the BCS conferences gobble up, the less interest and relevance the other teams have. Bigger conferences mean less out of conference opportunities for scheduling. Why play Valpo when you have a really tough conference season. Schedule more bottom feeder schools to pad the record and hope to be above .500 in conference. Notre Dame has been doing it for years anyway, and rightfully so. The gap between the haves and the have nots is getting wider every day.
Milanmiracle, if you want to take your concerns a step further. Many in the national media are predicting that within 5-10 years that conference re-allignment will result in 4 Super Conferences, one each in the East, South, Midwest, and West. You could imagine that being the ACC, SEC, Big 10, and Pac 10, repsectively. With each conference having 16-20 teams. And, at that point, those four Super Conferences would get together to broker a deal whereby they leave the NCAA, thereby cutting them out of the $3 billion dollars they are paid by member schools for administration and oversight of college athletics and the revenue they receive for television contracts for Bowl Games and March Madness. So, the NCAA would be "left" with the remaining 200-250 mid-major programs, and NCAA March Madness has just turned into another NIT Tournament for also-rans. In that scenario, the mid-majors would be completelly left out of the college football and college basketball post-season tournaments of relevance.
Just curious, but where is the Big 12 in your analysis? IMO, the Big 12 is in a much more stable position than the ACC is right now and if I had money, I'd bet it on the Big 12 as being one of the top four conferences. The Big 12's grant of rights should provide it with more stability as a conference than the ACC's exit fee will (see Maryland). It is funny how conference realignment can change perceptions on a dime or over a period of time. A year or so ago I would have said the ACC is more stable but I don't think that is true any longer, unless of course ND becomes a full member or Texas decides to move to the Big 10 anyway as team #15. Doubtful either of those will ever happen though.
I highly doubt Texas would leave for the Big 10. No regional rivals for our state to care about. Oklahoma and Texas are pretty much a joint package if they ever left, but I don't see it happening. The ACC seems much more likely to lose more teams. The only Big 12 teams I can see leaving eventually are WVU, Kansas, Iowa State, and Kansas State if anyone will have them. All can be replaced by better teams, save WVU.
If you like to follow random realignment speculation try this link:
http://csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=637 (http://csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=637)
UMKC to the WAC?
http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?29926-UMKC-to-the-WAC (http://www.bisonville.com/forum/showthread.php?29926-UMKC-to-the-WAC)
Good lord, if that is true...why??? The WAC has become an absolute joke of a conference
Looking at UMKC's board, it is absolutely hilarious that any fan thinks that they have a chance at getting an MVC bid anytime in the next century:
http://umkcroos.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=551 (http://umkcroos.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=551)
thats a weird move, especially since Denver left to join the summit.
Quote from: valpotx on February 07, 2013, 02:37:57 PM
Good lord, if that is true...why??? The WAC has become an absolute joke of a conference
If this is true, I don't get this move either. Let's see here, as OKMick put it...Denver moving "east" away from the WAC (and to the Summit) and UMKC moving "west" toward the WAC (and from the Summit). And what is causing the move anyway? A school like Oakland leaving to join the HL and a couple other schools leaving to join the MVC with Creighton joining the Catholic-7? Maybe a "kick out" a la Chicago State? Speculation is fun, ain't it?
Madness. Pure madness.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on February 07, 2013, 02:58:52 PMA school like Oakland leaving to join the HL and a couple other schools leaving to join the MVC with Creighton joining the Catholic-7?
What schools would join the MVC if Creighton bolted???
Here's an interesting thought: https://twitter.com/ZacksKC/status/299594585594802176
If the Summit is "dying" then why did Denver just move there?
ND State would have a decent shot at the MVC, maybe SD State. Since they both already have football in the conference, and seem to be committed to winning in all sports in D-1. I don't think we have any chance at MVC status at current, unless we show a few years more of championship success in most sports, which it seems we are intending to do.
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 07, 2013, 03:05:50 PM
If the Summit is "dying" then why did Denver just move there?
Their decision was last year. Maybe things have changed.
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 07, 2013, 03:05:50 PM
If the Summit is "dying" then why did Denver just move there?
Which reminds me of that new movie:
"Things to do in Denver when the Summit's dead"
UMKC to the WAC:
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/02/07/4054339/umkc-to-join-western-athletic.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/02/07/4054339/umkc-to-join-western-athletic.html)
A quick move--starting play in 2013? Something is up...
Quote from: valpotx on February 07, 2013, 03:10:48 PM
ND State would have a decent shot at the MVC, maybe SD State. Since they both already have football in the conference, and seem to be committed to winning in all sports in D-1. I don't think we have any chance at MVC status at current, unless we show a few years more of championship success in most sports, which it seems we are intending to do.
Really? I would think we are a better pickup for the MVC than ND State. I think the HL is a better fit for us anyways. Both conferences are 1 bids.
This is weird. Most schools look to move up to a better conference, not down to an inferior conference. It's not like travel times are going to be better or they're moving for baseball (like Oral Roberts). Maybe the Summit League is having a major shakeup and is losing a bunch of members?
I suspect that Oakland is moving to the HL. ND State and SD state may move to MVC. They will be the end of the summit and UMKC is likely trying to think in advance.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 07, 2013, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 07, 2013, 03:10:48 PM
ND State would have a decent shot at the MVC, maybe SD State. Since they both already have football in the conference, and seem to be committed to winning in all sports in D-1. I don't think we have any chance at MVC status at current, unless we show a few years more of championship success in most sports, which it seems we are intending to do.
Really? I would think we are a better pickup for the MVC than ND State. I think the HL is a better fit for us anyways. Both conferences are 1 bids.
I agree that we are a good fit for the Valley but don't agree that the Valley is a one bid league. We certainly have the pedigree to compete over there. I suspect we are in the Horizon for a while and particularly if we gain three good rpi teams as suggested. Having Belmont alone this year would have boosted our ranking. Both Belmont and Murray State would have much better rankings if their schedules didn't include playing the dogs of the OVC. As for ND State and SD whatever, they would be a much better fit in the Big Sky.
Per this article ( http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/sports/college-basketball/lunardi-talks-a-10-moves-of-catholic-7/nWHYQ/ (http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/sports/college-basketball/lunardi-talks-a-10-moves-of-catholic-7/nWHYQ/) ), Lunardi claims Xavier and Butler are "committed" to join the C7 and that the C7 wants to stop at 10 teams (although their TV contract may push them to 12). If they stick at 10, I'd prefer SLU over either Dayton or Creighton. If they go to 12, who knows. SLU, Dayton, Creighton and Richmond would all be considered. VCU has been mentioned, but I've heard several comments that indicate Catholic isn't required (allowing Butler in), but they don't want to include Publics. Thats obviously to stick to their desired "profile", but I've also heard rumblings that their concerned because a public school could open up all conference records under the Freedom of Information Act.
How does this impact the Horizon or MVC? It really depends how many teams the C7 takes. If they take X, Butler and SLU, I could still see Dayton staying with the A-10. If they take X, Butler and Dayton, I would expect SLU to be looking for a new home. If they take X, Butler and Creighton, I would expect SLU to consider filling Creighton's spot in the MVC. In any case, I think the A-10 will be the conference most dramatically impacted and don't look for much impact to the Horizon.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 07, 2013, 05:27:47 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 07, 2013, 03:10:48 PM
ND State would have a decent shot at the MVC, maybe SD State. Since they both already have football in the conference, and seem to be committed to winning in all sports in D-1. I don't think we have any chance at MVC status at current, unless we show a few years more of championship success in most sports, which it seems we are intending to do.
Really? I would think we are a better pickup for the MVC than ND State. I think the HL is a better fit for us anyways. Both conferences are 1 bids.
they'd automatically get to claim the 2-time defending fcs football national champion. and they're looking to improve other programs. they're already holding serve in basketball right now. the only problem would be hockey, but that seems to be independent of other conference affiliation anyway.
Enjoyed your analysis zville.
About VCU and why they are out of the picture. Public - Check. Urban with a fragmented/dispersed set of facilities - Check. Smallish arena capacity (7500) - Check. Smallish TV market - Check. Picturesque campus - Nope (not really a factor but I added it anyway).
Question: Why not BOTH SLU and Creighton? Both Creighton and SLU is Jesuit. They don't play FB and they are in different markets.
Assuming 12, you add Butler, X, STL and CU = 11. Then you go back to the A-10 and grab either LaSalle or St. Joe's. Neither play football, both are RC, and they have sizable enrollments and great BB traditions. The only down side is that it makes the new conference a bit Philly-centric with two schools (Villanova and ?) within 10 miles of each other, but Philly is apretty big city and should support that..
The markets (northeast to mid-west):
Providence - RI and Mass
St. John's - NYC/LI
Seton Hall - NYC/NJ
Villanova - Philly
[St. Joe's/LaSalle] - Philly
G'Town - Balt/D.C.
Xavier - Cincinnati
DePaul - Chicago
Marquette - Milwaukee
Butler - Indianapolis
St. Louis - St. Louis
Creighton - Omaha
It marches right across the country. Looks pretty compelling to me. And if the two in Philly are a problem, grab Duquesne in the Pittsburgh market to go head to head with UPitt (talk about a march across geography).
So with all that catholicism, butler fits in? seems like they, (and the pope) might want it to be an exclusive league, and easily done. It would leave butler in a mess as they just jumped ship to a ship about to sink. Interesting.
This might help them get in (from Wikipedia):
Butler University opened on November 1, 1855, as North Western Christian University at 13th street and College Avenue on Indianapolis' near north-side at the eastern edge of the present Old Northside Historic District on land provided by attorney and university founder Ovid Butler.
So there's some sort of religious affiliation. But if they were Lutheran :o fuggetaboutit! ;D
Quote from: vu72 on February 07, 2013, 08:39:49 PM
So with all that catholicism, butler fits in? seems like they, (and the pope) might want it to be an exclusive league, and easily done. It would leave butler in a mess as they just jumped ship to a ship about to sink. Interesting.
Xavier and Butler have been the two schools mentioned from the beginning. The Marquette AD mentioned them and now Lunardi confirms it. It was also mentioned somewhere (Marquette AD?) that being Catholic was not a requirement. How does Butler fit in? Well, aside from the religious aspect, Catholics like $ too, and contrary to the popular belief on this board, Butler is a national program that brings $ to the table. I know your general position is to wish the worst for Butler, but I think they have some smart (and forward looking) people in charge, and will come out of this ok. Remember, you were among the many proclaiming the move to the A-10 was a horrible mistake, yet I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 07, 2013, 08:31:47 PM
Enjoyed your analysis zville.
About VCU and why they are out of the picture. Public - Check. Urban with a fragmented/dispersed set of facilities - Check. Smallish arena capacity (7500) - Check. Smallish TV market - Check. Picturesque campus - Nope (not really a factor but I added it anyway).
Question: Why not BOTH SLU and Creighton? Both Creighton and SLU is Jesuit. They don't play FB and they are in different markets.
Assuming 12, you add Butler, X, STL and CU = 11. Then you go back to the A-10 and grab either LaSalle or St. Joe's. Neither play football, both are RC, and they have sizable enrollments and great BB traditions. The only down side is that it makes the new conference a bit Philly-centric with two schools (Villanova and ?) within 10 miles of each other, but Philly is apretty big city and should support that..
The markets (northeast to mid-west):
Providence - RI and Mass
St. John's - NYC/LI
Seton Hall - NYC/NJ
Villanova - Philly
[St. Joe's/LaSalle] - Philly
G'Town - Balt/D.C.
Xavier - Cincinnati
DePaul - Chicago
Marquette - Milwaukee
Butler - Indianapolis
St. Louis - St. Louis
Creighton - Omaha
It marches right across the country. Looks pretty compelling to me. And if the two in Philly are a problem, grab Duquesne in the Pittsburgh market to go head to head with UPitt (talk about a march across geography).
I know St. Joe's wants to be considered if they go to 12, but I'm seeing that Richmond might be the preferred option. Adds another market and balances the league between east coast and midwest (versus adding Dayton). It's interesting that the Lunardi comments seem to conclude that Dayton is out of the mix ... they have great support, but don't bring a new market (shadowed by Cincinnati and Indianapolis) and have little recent NCAA success.
I'd like to add that I think Butler is positioned very well in the A-10 as it currently stands. If it would stay intact, I'd fully support them staying there as most people think they'll get 4 or 5 NCAA bid ... very good conference IMO. The obvious problem is that if Butler isn't proactive in moving to the C7, they (as vu72 suggests) could be left isolated in the midwest if X, Dayton and SLU do make the jump.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 07, 2013, 08:52:05 PM
This might help them get in (from Wikipedia):
Butler University opened on November 1, 1855, as North Western Christian University at 13th street and College Avenue on Indianapolis' near north-side at the eastern edge of the present Old Northside Historic District on land provided by attorney and university founder Ovid Butler.
So there's some sort of religious affiliation. But if they were Lutheran :o fuggetaboutit! ;D
Ovid Butler was a devout member of the Church of Christ and an Abolitionist. Those ties are no longer very strong but that is Butler's background.
The Butler School of Religion, a graduate school established to further the education of ministerial students, was opened in 1924. The School of Religion severed its institutional ties to Butler in 1958 and became Christian Theological Seminary, which maintains formal ties to the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). CTS settled into a facility located just south of Butler's campus in 1966.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 07, 2013, 09:26:09 PM
I know St. Joe's wants to be considered if they go to 12, but I'm seeing that Richmond might be the preferred option. Adds another market and balances the league between east coast and midwest (versus adding Dayton). It's interesting that the Lunardi comments seem to conclude that Dayton is out of the mix ... they have great support, but don't bring a new market (shadowed by Cincinnati and Indianapolis) and have little recent NCAA success.
But Richmond, while private and bringing a small market to the table (like Creighton-Omaha), does not have a distinguished BB tradition like all of the other schools previously mentioned. And besides the 300 or so miles south between Philly and Richmond doesn't change the balance IMO.
And, Dang, Butler is like the prom queen. Everyone wants her. And she would feel comfortable in either place. What an enviable position to be in. I seriously wonder what all this national publicity is doing to affect their application numbers. I'll bet it's through the roof. Kinda like the Flutie Factor at BC when he won the Heisman.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 07, 2013, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 07, 2013, 08:39:49 PM
So with all that catholicism, butler fits in? seems like they, (and the pope) might want it to be an exclusive league, and easily done. It would leave butler in a mess as they just jumped ship to a ship about to sink. Interesting.
Xavier and Butler have been the two schools mentioned from the beginning. The Marquette AD mentioned them and now Lunardi confirms it. It was also mentioned somewhere (Marquette AD?) that being Catholic was not a requirement. How does Butler fit in? Well, aside from the religious aspect, Catholics like $ too, and contrary to the popular belief on this board, Butler is a national program that brings $ to the table. I know your general position is to wish the worst for Butler, but I think they have some smart (and forward looking) people in charge, and will come out of this ok. Remember, you were among the many proclaiming the move to the A-10 was a horrible mistake, yet I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 07, 2013, 08:31:47 PM
Enjoyed your analysis zville.
About VCU and why they are out of the picture. Public - Check. Urban with a fragmented/dispersed set of facilities - Check. Smallish arena capacity (7500) - Check. Smallish TV market - Check. Picturesque campus - Nope (not really a factor but I added it anyway).
Question: Why not BOTH SLU and Creighton? Both Creighton and SLU is Jesuit. They don't play FB and they are in different markets.
Assuming 12, you add Butler, X, STL and CU = 11. Then you go back to the A-10 and grab either LaSalle or St. Joe's. Neither play football, both are RC, and they have sizable enrollments and great BB traditions. The only down side is that it makes the new conference a bit Philly-centric with two schools (Villanova and ?) within 10 miles of each other, but Philly is apretty big city and should support that..
The markets (northeast to mid-west):
Providence - RI and Mass
St. John's - NYC/LI
Seton Hall - NYC/NJ
Villanova - Philly
[St. Joe's/LaSalle] - Philly
G'Town - Balt/D.C.
Xavier - Cincinnati
DePaul - Chicago
Marquette - Milwaukee
Butler - Indianapolis
St. Louis - St. Louis
Creighton - Omaha
It marches right across the country. Looks pretty compelling to me. And if the two in Philly are a problem, grab Duquesne in the Pittsburgh market to go head to head with UPitt (talk about a march across geography).
I know St. Joe's wants to be considered if they go to 12, but I'm seeing that Richmond might be the preferred option. Adds another market and balances the league between east coast and midwest (versus adding Dayton). It's interesting that the Lunardi comments seem to conclude that Dayton is out of the mix ... they have great support, but don't bring a new market (shadowed by Cincinnati and Indianapolis) and have little recent NCAA success.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 07, 2013, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 07, 2013, 08:39:49 PM
So with all that catholicism, butler fits in? seems like they, (and the pope) might want it to be an exclusive league, and easily done. It would leave butler in a mess as they just jumped ship to a ship about to sink. Interesting.
Xavier and Butler have been the two schools mentioned from the beginning. The Marquette AD mentioned them and now Lunardi confirms it. It was also mentioned somewhere (Marquette AD?) that being Catholic was not a requirement. How does Butler fit in? Well, aside from the religious aspect, Catholics like $ too, and contrary to the popular belief on this board, Butler is a national program that brings $ to the table. I know your general position is to wish the worst for Butler, but I think they have some smart (and forward looking) people in charge, and will come out of this ok. Remember, you were among the many proclaiming the move to the A-10 was a horrible mistake, yet I haven't seen any evidence of that yet.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 07, 2013, 08:31:47 PM
Enjoyed your analysis zville.
About VCU and why they are out of the picture. Public - Check. Urban with a fragmented/dispersed set of facilities - Check. Smallish arena capacity (7500) - Check. Smallish TV market - Check. Picturesque campus - Nope (not really a factor but I added it anyway).
Question: Why not BOTH SLU and Creighton? Both Creighton and SLU is Jesuit. They don't play FB and they are in different markets.
Assuming 12, you add Butler, X, STL and CU = 11. Then you go back to the A-10 and grab either LaSalle or St. Joe's. Neither play football, both are RC, and they have sizable enrollments and great BB traditions. The only down side is that it makes the new conference a bit Philly-centric with two schools (Villanova and ?) within 10 miles of each other, but Philly is apretty big city and should support that..
The markets (northeast to mid-west):
Providence - RI and Mass
St. John's - NYC/LI
Seton Hall - NYC/NJ
Villanova - Philly
[St. Joe's/LaSalle] - Philly
G'Town - Balt/D.C.
Xavier - Cincinnati
DePaul - Chicago
Marquette - Milwaukee
Butler - Indianapolis
St. Louis - St. Louis
Creighton - Omaha
It marches right across the country. Looks pretty compelling to me. And if the two in Philly are a problem, grab Duquesne in the Pittsburgh market to go head to head with UPitt (talk about a march across geography).
I know St. Joe's wants to be considered if they go to 12, but I'm seeing that Richmond might be the preferred option. Adds another market and balances the league between east coast and midwest (versus adding Dayton). It's interesting that the Lunardi comments seem to conclude that Dayton is out of the mix ... they have great support, but don't bring a new market (shadowed by Cincinnati and Indianapolis) and have little recent NCAA success.
Dude, I was joking. It would be a terrific conference. It is obvious why they want Butler, it seems interesting that there was such a big deal about the "Catholic 7" and then they pursue one school who isn't, that's all.
Butler is definitely a national program now, with the only point I like to make being that they are not Duke, like some of your fans think. But yes, I wish nothing but the worst for the school on a daily basis lol :).
In regards to NDSU and SDSU, they would VERY much be considered and likely for the MVC. They are much better than being a Big Sky team for their non-football programs, as they put money into those and seem to be having success. Both schools have had good results in the MVFC since moving into that portion of the conference, and have shown they are committed to the other money-maker in basketball. Good-sized programs, what seems to be a solid fan base for their location, and competing for championships. The only thing they don't have going for them is their location.
Quote from: vu72 on February 07, 2013, 11:08:05 PM
Dude, I was joking. It would be a terrific conference. It is obvious why they want Butler, it seems interesting that there was such a big deal about the "Catholic 7" and then they pursue one school who isn't, that's all.
My bad, vu72 ... I should have picked up that you were joking.
FWIW, here's the latest from Andy Katz. http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/75294/3-point-shot-big-east-7-possible-candidates (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/75294/3-point-shot-big-east-7-possible-candidates)
I think it's a shame the A-10 can't just think of themselves as world beaters. When I look at VCU, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, SLU, Temple, and I'm probably missing a couple, that's a conference I could learn to love from afar.
That said, if other teams are looking to graduate, Butler would be foolish to be slavishly loyal to their new home.
Theres a lot of talk on other fan blogs that Detroit will go to A-10 once A-10 loses a couple to the Catholic 7.
More power to Detroit if they do so, but the A-10 won't be anywhere near as good as it currently is without Butler, Xavier, SLU, and possibly Dayton. They will lose the schools that are actually in their region, and have to travel East for everything.
Detroit has an interesting athletic profile. They have 8 men's sports and 9 women's but both include fencing and lacrosse. Thus, they have only 6 and 7 sports respectively in the Horizon. We on the other hand have 17 sports in the Horizon. I suppose, depending on the conference, that they would have to add a few sports, who knows...
So the question is which conference will be the best option?
1. The MVC (no Creighton)
2. A-10 (no butler, Xavier, Dayton)
3. Horizon (possible Oakland, Murray st. and Belmont)
Was it smart for the HL to delay invitations last year after Butler exited and see what's left of the A-10, MVC or OVC?
I would rank the MVC as 1, Horizon as 2, and A-10 a distant third with what you list there. There is nothing to entice me about the A-10 without Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, Temple, or Charlotte. The rest of those schools are just ok, outside of VCU. The MVC without Creighton is still better than the Horizon with the teams you list, but I would much prefer Oakland/Belmont/Evansville, as I don't think Murray State will leave with them having football...unless they drop to non-scholarship football.
Chicago State AD: "You have not seen anything yet"
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2013/2/7/3965972/more-wac-changes-conference-realignment (http://www.midmajormadness.com/2013/2/7/3965972/more-wac-changes-conference-realignment)
Cryptic to say the least but interesting nonetheless. So who's on deck to move "west"? Nebraska-Omaha? I thought I read somewhere that the WAC commissioner stated that he wanted to get the league up to ten members in the future. Idaho is gone in 2014 to the BSC and NMSU is most likely gone as soon as a spot opens (Sun Belt or CUSA?). The WAC will need more schools other than UMKC to get there. Who is next?
There isn't anything the WAC can do to be relevant again. Look at the POS teams in the conference! Chicago State gained the chance at NCAA bids, since the Great West had no chance at it, but UMKC just tripped up majorly. Even if they get some extra $$ in the short-term because of how WAC teams have performed the last few years, that will dry out after a few years, and these new teams are out of the NCAA basketball tournament in the 16 seed play-in game each year. I believe your NCAA bids/wins are spread out over a 5 year process, so anything done the last 4 and this year will be gone in 5 years.
Quote from: valpotx on February 08, 2013, 02:52:42 PM
There isn't anything the WAC can do to be relevant again. Look at the POS teams in the conference! Chicago State gained the chance at NCAA bids, since the Great West had no chance at it, but UMKC just tripped up majorly. Even if they get some extra $$ in the short-term because of how WAC teams have performed the last few years, that will dry out after a few years, and these new teams are out of the NCAA basketball tournament in the 16 seed play-in game each year. I believe your NCAA bids/wins are spread out over a 5 year process, so anything done the last 4 and this year will be gone in 5 years.
Not to mention the difficulty in recruiting decent players who want to play against the likes of Grand Canyon University or Chicago State.
Quote from: valpotx on February 08, 2013, 02:03:31 PM
I would rank the MVC as 1, Horizon as 2, and A-10 a distant third with what you list there. There is nothing to entice me about the A-10 without Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, Temple, or Charlotte. The rest of those schools are just ok, outside of VCU. The MVC without Creighton is still better than the Horizon with the teams you list, but I would much prefer Oakland/Belmont/Evansville, as I don't think Murray State will leave with them having football...unless they drop to non-scholarship football.
Of the 11 A-10 teams that would be left, six are currently top 100 RPI and those 11 teams have an average RPI of 109. The Horizon has an average of 158, and that drops to 139 with the addition of Oakland, Murray and Belmont. VCU, SLU, Richmond, LaSalle, UMass and St. Joe's may not entice you, but that group is stronger (tradition/current success/recent success) than you give them credit for.
The real problem the A-10 will have is trying to keep things from crumbling furhter. As I mentioned earlier, I can't see SLU staying in the A-10 if X, Butler and Dayton were to leave, although I guess adding additional midwest teams (Detroit/Loyola?) might be on their agenda. Who knows? ???
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 08, 2013, 06:39:21 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 08, 2013, 02:03:31 PM
I would rank the MVC as 1, Horizon as 2, and A-10 a distant third with what you list there. There is nothing to entice me about the A-10 without Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, Temple, or Charlotte. The rest of those schools are just ok, outside of VCU. The MVC without Creighton is still better than the Horizon with the teams you list, but I would much prefer Oakland/Belmont/Evansville, as I don't think Murray State will leave with them having football...unless they drop to non-scholarship football.
Of the 11 A-10 teams that would be left, six are currently top 100 RPI and those 11 teams have an average RPI of 109. The Horizon has an average of 158, and that drops to 139 with the addition of Oakland, Murray and Belmont. VCU, SLU, Richmond, LaSalle, UMass and St. Joe's may not entice you, but that group is stronger (tradition/current success/recent success) than you give them credit for.
The real problem the A-10 will have is trying to keep things from crumbling furhter. As I mentioned earlier, I can't see SLU staying in the A-10 if X, Butler and Dayton were to leave, although I guess adding additional midwest teams (Detroit/Loyola?) might be on their agenda. Who knows? ???
Do you have any sense that all these schools are anticipating each other jumping and that's why they're looking to jump too? Or is one or more of them independently itching to jump, regardless of what the other schools do?
Just curious.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 08, 2013, 06:39:21 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 08, 2013, 02:03:31 PM
I would rank the MVC as 1, Horizon as 2, and A-10 a distant third with what you list there. There is nothing to entice me about the A-10 without Butler, Xavier, SLU, Dayton, Temple, or Charlotte. The rest of those schools are just ok, outside of VCU. The MVC without Creighton is still better than the Horizon with the teams you list, but I would much prefer Oakland/Belmont/Evansville, as I don't think Murray State will leave with them having football...unless they drop to non-scholarship football.
Of the 11 A-10 teams that would be left, six are currently top 100 RPI and those 11 teams have an average RPI of 109. The Horizon has an average of 158, and that drops to 139 with the addition of Oakland, Murray and Belmont. VCU, SLU, Richmond, LaSalle, UMass and St. Joe's may not entice you, but that group is stronger (tradition/current success/recent success) than you give them credit for.
The real problem the A-10 will have is trying to keep things from crumbling furhter. As I mentioned earlier, I can't see SLU staying in the A-10 if X, Butler and Dayton were to leave, although I guess adding additional midwest teams (Detroit/Loyola?) might be on their agenda. Who knows? ???
Yes, those 11 teams do have an average RPI of 109, but they would not have an average RPI of 109 without the greater strength of schedule of having played Buter, Xavier, Dayton, Temple etc. Their RPI is better because they have those teams are on their schedule. If those teams leave and they can't replace them with strong teams, their average RPI would surely drop BIG as their conference SOS would no longer be what it is today. That said, I actually think those 11 teams would still be a slightly better basketball conference, but it would be very close.
The big question is how many teams will the A-10 lose? I am not sure the A-10 can keep all 11 of those teams. Will UMass head to the Big East? Will SLU head to the MVC if not invited to the Catholic 7? I mean, they could lose more teams, causing the Horizon to move ahead of them. Then what does the A-10 do... Do they try to raid the Horizon? Does the Horizon form a unified front and try to raid them instead? Do they try pick pocket the best of the mid-major basketball schools with recent success like George Mason, Vermont, Robert Morris, etc.?
The next question is should the HL have waited before deciding to add the 3 teams they chose? (if the rumors are true that is) I mean, perhaps all of this realignment could have meant that we get a much bigger fish than Oakland. Maybe we could have just went after Belmont and then waited for two more teams ready to leave a dying or severely wounded conference. Or are we moving to 12 with the expectation that we will eventually lose 1-2 teams to another conference?
Lots of hypotheticals out there. I just hope the Horizon is smart enough to navigate its way to the strongest possible outcome. For me, I think that means putting on a unified front. Advertise as a consistent 12th-14th rpi conference that is unified and ready to drop to a consistent 9th-11th area with the addition of the right 3 teams. AKA...instead of our teams leaving for "greener grass", lets just fertalize the damn lawn!
Thanks for making my point before me :). I was assuming the drop in RPI from not being able to play the solid RPI programs within conference anymore. UMass would most likely be heading to the Big East as well, so another good program gone. VCU, LaSalle, Richmond, St. Joe's, etc, are just not as enticing without the programs I am predicting will leave in 1-2 years (Butler, Xavier, Dayton, SLU, UMass, Temple, Charlotte).
Duquesne, Fordham, GW, LaSalle, Richmond, St. Bonaventure, St. Joe's, and VCU. Decent, but not top 10 conference.
According to the SLU board there is some doubt creeping into the minds of the presidents of the Catholic 7 schools and their "friends" that they will be able to recoup the monetary losses they will have when they leave all that money behind with the Big East Conference. Right now the TV networks are pushing for 12 schools and many within the Catholic 7 don't want that many. If those 7 sabotage their own monetary gains from the TV contracts the presidents are starting to feel what is the use of starting a new conference which will eventually just be another Big East with a monetary starting point well below what the Big East will have when they divorce. Big big decisions about money. Nothing new there.
Notre Dame will not leave the Big East until at least 2014: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130207/mike-brey-notre-dame-big-east.ap/ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130207/mike-brey-notre-dame-big-east.ap/)
I suppose this can be interpreted many different ways depending on how the Tarot cards read:
ND is staying put for one year because the C-7 won't break off on its own until 2014 anyway;
ND is staying put for one year to try and align with the C-7 as an Olympic sports only member;
ND is staying put for one year so it can see what happens to Maryland and the ACC lawsuit on exit fees;
ND is staying put for one year so it can see if Virginia is heading to the B1G as speculated or whether any schools will be moving to the BIG 12 (FSU, Miami, etc.) from the ACC over the next year or so;
ND is staying put because of the ease on next year's sports scheduling (yeah, right);
ND is staying put so it can keep an eye on how much money the C-7 commands on their TV deal during the interim and then make a decision from there; or
By staying in the Big East for at least the next year, ND really believes that the ACC is vulnerable to losing more members in the future.
Who knows what the reason(s) really are...but it is fun to speculate.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on February 09, 2013, 06:52:39 AM
Notre Dame will not leave the Big East until at least 2014: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130207/mike-brey-notre-dame-big-east.ap/ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130207/mike-brey-notre-dame-big-east.ap/)
I suppose this can be interpreted many different ways depending on how the Tarot cards read:
ND is staying put for one year because the C-7 won't break off on its own until 2014 anyway;
ND is staying put for one year to try and align with the C-7 as an Olympic sports only member;
ND is staying put for one year so it can see what happens to Maryland and the ACC lawsuit on exit fees;
ND is staying put for one year so it can see if Virginia is heading to the B1G as speculated or whether any schools will be moving to the BIG 12 (FSU, Miami, etc.) from the ACC over the next year or so;
ND is staying put because of the ease on next year's sports scheduling (yeah, right);
ND is staying put so it can keep an eye on how much money the C-7 commands on their TV deal during the interim and then make a decision from there; or
By staying in the Big East for at least the next year, ND really believes that the ACC is vulnerable to losing more members in the future.
Who knows what the reason(s) really are...but it is fun to speculate.
Wouldn't Notre Dame's other sports (minus football, hockey, lacrosse, any others that aren't in the Big East) fit nicely in the Catholic 7?
Wouldn't that be a coup for the C-7? Wow, I truly never even thought that could be a possibility. It still may not be, but fun to speculate
Good article and insight about the C-7 and where its headed with respect to expansion:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/catholic-7-schools-including-georgetown-charting-a-new-yet-familiar-path/2013/02/16/f1eaa870-7876-11e2-aa12-e6cf1d31106b_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/catholic-7-schools-including-georgetown-charting-a-new-yet-familiar-path/2013/02/16/f1eaa870-7876-11e2-aa12-e6cf1d31106b_story.html)
Looks like no ND?
March will be interesting, as I am sure that is when conferences will make some more announcements. Interesting that the article you attached mentions Siena??? I understand that they are in upstate NY and apparently play in a 15,500 seat arena, but Siena? They have been to a few NCAAs, yes, but you would have to figure that they would go with a better team. I still see it as Butler, Dayton, Xavier, SLU, and possibly Richmond now. I can see the argument that Creighton might be too far west. We'll see what happens with Detroit, but I still think that they have a few years before getting such consideration. If the 4 teams leave the A-10, I am sure Detroit might get an invite to that league. But, do they take it with the diminished talent in the conference, and a lot more travel since the west teams will be gone?
Detroit to C-7? Don't see it happening. The Horizon is a nice place - Butler's loss aside, it's been very stable. The budding Valpo-Detroit rivalry is great, and while losing Butler was a big PR hit, lots of people are beginning to notice that the Horizon didn't fall a bit in conference rankings. After all, Detroit and Valpo were 5-0 against Butler last year. I'd like to see the league add Belmont and Evansville, as has been rumored. That would give the league a better core of academically rigorous, smaller, private schools to go with UD, Valpo, and Loyola. Then who knows. If Creighton goes C-7, Wichita State will be desperately trying to get an invite to the Mountain West. And if that happens other MVC teams (I'm thinking Bradley) might be very interested in the Horizon.
Quote from: Pathfinder on February 18, 2013, 08:08:38 AM
Detroit to C-7? Don't see it happening. The Horizon is a nice place - Butler's loss aside, it's been very stable. The budding Valpo-Detroit rivalry is great, and while losing Butler was a big PR hit, lots of people are beginning to notice that the Horizon didn't fall a bit in conference rankings. After all, Detroit and Valpo were 5-0 against Butler last year. I'd like to see the league add Belmont and Evansville, as has been rumored. That would give the league a better core of academically rigorous, smaller, private schools to go with UD, Valpo, and Loyola. Then who knows. If Creighton goes C-7, Wichita State will be desperately trying to get an invite to the Mountain West. And if that happens other MVC teams (I'm thinking Bradley) might be very interested in the Horizon.
Or Drake.
Quote from: vu72 on February 18, 2013, 06:33:42 PM
Quote from: Pathfinder on February 18, 2013, 08:08:38 AM
Detroit to C-7? Don't see it happening. The Horizon is a nice place - Butler's loss aside, it's been very stable. The budding Valpo-Detroit rivalry is great, and while losing Butler was a big PR hit, lots of people are beginning to notice that the Horizon didn't fall a bit in conference rankings. After all, Detroit and Valpo were 5-0 against Butler last year. I'd like to see the league add Belmont and Evansville, as has been rumored. That would give the league a better core of academically rigorous, smaller, private schools to go with UD, Valpo, and Loyola. Then who knows. If Creighton goes C-7, Wichita State will be desperately trying to get an invite to the Mountain West. And if that happens other MVC teams (I'm thinking Bradley) might be very interested in the Horizon.
Or Drake.
Or you could see some current Horizon teams heading to the MVC and some heading to the A-10. I think everyone is positioning right now and waiting to see who the C-7 add before they start making moves.
As for Detroit heading to the C-7, I'll believe it when I see it. They already have enough mediocre programs to go with Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova ... they need to add some teams that will improve their basketball profile or they can forget about that big TV deal. No one wants to see Providence or Seton Hall play at Detroit. :twocents:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/191910991.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/191910991.html) Marquette didn't like that Wash Post article.
Here's an interesting look at one of my alma maters who will NOT be invited to the C-7
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2013/basketball/nba/wires/02/13/2030.ap.bko.catholic.s.surge.1st.ld.writethru.1032/ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2013/basketball/nba/wires/02/13/2030.ap.bko.catholic.s.surge.1st.ld.writethru.1032/)
but in another world, could've!...Nice to see them mention the 2001 D3 national title...went to a game that year and started a riot and not even a student there at the time. But that's a story for another day.
Another day, another perspective on the "C-7". http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238 (http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238)
If they do just go to 10 teams and only take two of the four midwestern A-10 teams, it could lead to further shakeouts. I assume the two left behind would either want to add more midwest teams to the A-10, or choose to look for another home. Either scenario could impact the Horizon, IMO.
FWIW, I heard John Thompson III refer to the group as "The Non-Football 7" and he was very clear the move was not being made for any religious reasons.
??? ???
BB gurus please help me out. Why isn't Duquesne and the metro Pittsburgh market even in this discussion (besides the fact they are not Jesuit or from Indianapolis)?
DUQUESNE UNIVERSITY[
Population (2011)[4][5]
• City 307,484 (62nd)
• Density 5,540/sq mi (2,140/km2)
• Urban 1,733,853 (27th)
• Metro 2,359,746 (22nd)
• CSA 2,450,281 (19th)
• GMP $115.8 billion (22nd)
Motto: Spiritus est qui vivificat (Latin) [Duh!]
Motto in English It is the Spirit that gives life.
Established October 1, 1878
Type Private
Religious affiliation Roman Catholic (Spiritan Fathers)
Endowment $171 million (2011)[1]
Students 10,363
Undergraduates 5,858
Postgraduates 4,505
Location Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States
Campus Urban, 49 acres
Colors Red and Blue
Athletics NCAA Division I
Decent history of college BB success. A-10.
No Pro BB team.
VERSUS RICHMOND
Population (2011)
• State Capital 205,533 (103rd)
• Density 3,211/sq mi (1,239.8/km2)
• Metro 1,269,380 (44th)
Questionable BB pedigree
Motto Verbum Vitae et Lumen Scientiae (Latin) [Duh again!)
Motto in English Word of life and the light of knowledge
Established 1830
Type Private university
Endowment US$1.87 billion (June 30, 2012)[1] [Holy crap!}
Students 4,250[3]
Undergraduates 2,767 (2,735 full-time, 32 part-time)[3]
Postgraduates 650 (543 full-time, 107 part-time)[3]
They play Basketball?
VERSUS CREIGHTON
Motto: Willing to Lead (they don't speak Latin in Nebraska)
Established 1878
Type Private
Research Coeducational
Religious affiliation Jesuit (Roman Catholic)
Endowment US $375.2 million[1]
Students 7,730[2]
Undergraduates 4,153
Postgraduates 3,577
Location Omaha, Nebraska
Population (2010)[3]
• City 408,958 (43rd)
• Estimate (2011[4]) 415,068
• Density 3,217.9/sq mi (1,242.4/km2)
• Metro 877,110
AND WHY ARE ALL THESE SCHOOLS INTO RED AND/OR BLUE ??? ??? ;D ;D ;D
duquesne plays second fiddle to pitt and the big east in pittsburgh.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 21, 2013, 05:10:44 PMIndianapolis)?
DUQUESNE UNIVERSITY[
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 21, 2013, 05:10:44 PMIndianapolis)?
DUQUESNE UNIVERSITY[
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 21, 2013, 05:10:44 PM
Another day, another perspective on the "C-7". http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238 (http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238)
If they do just go to 10 teams and only take two of the four midwestern A-10 teams, it could lead to further shakeouts. I assume the two left behind would either want to add more midwest teams to the A-10, or choose to look for another home. Either scenario could impact the Horizon, IMO.
FWIW, I heard John Thompson III refer to the group as "The Non-Football 7" and he was very clear the move was not being made for any religious reasons.
Looks like another "Shelvin Mack" moment. Georgetown has a football team.
Quote from: vu72 on February 21, 2013, 07:26:40 PMQuote from: zvillehaze on February 21, 2013, 05:10:44 PM
Another day, another perspective on the "C-7". http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238 (http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238)
If they do just go to 10 teams and only take two of the four midwestern A-10 teams, it could lead to further shakeouts. I assume the two left behind would either want to add more midwest teams to the A-10, or choose to look for another home. Either scenario could impact the Horizon, IMO.
FWIW, I heard John Thompson III refer to the group as "The Non-Football 7" and he was very clear the move was not being made for any religious reasons.
Looks like another "Shelvin Mack" moment. Georgetown has a football team.
I guess I didn't do my homework. It appears that Georgetown plays FCS football as an associate member in the Patriot League (who knew, other than vu72?). The Patriot League will begin allowing football scholarships next season (15 equivalents) and Georgetown has not yet determined if they will grant scholarships or not.
Georgetown and the other members of the "Catholic 7" do not participate in BCS football. I went back and listened to the JT III comment on the ESPNU podcast, and what he said was "the Basketball 7 schools, and I want to say that again, the Basketball 7, I didn't bring religion into it". In regards to religion, he stated "well because that's not the common thread." He then blamed ESPN and other media for pushing the religious aspect of the new league.
Read into that what you will. I think that the non-FBS football schools being Catholic/Jesuit schools was somewhat of a coincidence. Based on comments that have leaked from various sources (Marquette, Xavier), I'm sensing that Catholic/non-Catholic won't be a deciding factor for new members. On the other hand, I'd be very surprised if they added a public school. The latest reports of adding Richmond instead of VCU seem to confirm that.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 21, 2013, 09:45:32 PMwho knew, other than vu72?
me for one. and i don't know if we can trust what's coming out of georgetown at the moment on the topic, based on Feinstein, Marquette, etc. especially their coach, who seems to me like the lawyer from Seinfeld.
now, if JT*II* said it, there's a voice we can trust. got a funny story about him I'll have to bring up when it's more apropos.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 21, 2013, 09:52:00 PM
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 21, 2013, 09:45:32 PMwho knew, other than vu72?
me for one. and i don't know if we can trust what's coming out of georgetown at the moment on the topic, based on Feinstein, Marquette, etc. especially their coach, who seems to me like the lawyer from Seinfeld.
now, if JT*II* said it, there's a voice we can trust. got a funny story about him I'll have to bring up when it's more apropos.
Would love to hear it. I really like JT III and Big John ... I have no idea what happened to Ronny, because he's a toolbox.
I agree that it's really hard to decipher all the "information" that's floating around out there. What I do know is that Fox, NBCSports or anyone else lining up to sign a TV deal better know who's being added before they ink a deal.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 21, 2013, 07:25:04 PM
duquesne plays second fiddle to pitt and the big east in pittsburgh.
So we're assuming that they (The 'Basketball' 7) would prefer not to go head-to-head with either Big East or ACC cities/schools. ???
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 22, 2013, 09:14:11 AM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 21, 2013, 07:25:04 PM
duquesne plays second fiddle to pitt and the big east in pittsburgh.
So we're assuming that they (The 'Basketball' 7) would prefer not to go head-to-head with either Big East or ACC cities/schools. ???
my point was that there probably isn't a very sizable population within the pittsburgh area, outside of the school itself, that follows duquesne. i don't know - i've never spent enough time in pittsburgh to know. so why try to grab a school like that instead of a school that doesn't have any direct competition or has a significant fanbase in the area.
It must be something like that, cuz no one's even whispering DU. :-X
Latest speculation on the C-7. http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5365 (http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5365) Earlier today, ESPN.com reported the A-10 exit fee was $2 million, but indicated the C-7 would probably cover that for anyone joining. They also reported the new TV deal for the C-7 would be in the $40 million per year range. Big dollars being thrown around.
In any case, it looks like things could be shuffling next summer. Will be interesting to see if this impacts Horizon expansion plans in any way.
Latest from ESPN: Catholic 7 to keep Big East name and add both Xavier and Butler as early as this fall:
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/77650/sources-catholic-7-keep-big-east (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/77650/sources-catholic-7-keep-big-east)
Well, they originally said that our expansion plans would be announced in March 2013 as well, so it will play out sooner than later. Hopefully the HL comes out of it unscathed...unless we are the one leaving, for say, the MVC (no A-10) :)
Quote from: valpotx on February 28, 2013, 05:39:30 PM
Well, they originally said that our expansion plans would be announced in March 2013 as well, so it will play out sooner than later. Hopefully the HL comes out of it unscathed...unless we are the one leaving, for say, the MVC (no A-10) :)
I think you're spot on. If the ESPN report is accurate, the A-10 will no longer have a midwest presence, which makes sense since the "Atlantic" is nowhere close to Ohio, Indiana or Missouri. The wild card is Creighton, as that could open a MVC spot for someone in the Horizon. I don't expect all of this to significantly impact the Horizon, but I assume LeCrone is on top of all scenarios. A potential positive might be that any A-10 team left behind (X, Butler, SLU, Dayton) could be looking for a new/old home in the midwest.
And yet another report ... http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21787349/catholic-7-looking-at-nine-schools-might-stop-there (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21787349/catholic-7-looking-at-nine-schools-might-stop-there)
Quote from: valpopal on February 28, 2013, 05:36:25 PM
Latest from ESPN: Catholic 7 to keep Big East name and add both Xavier and Butler as early as this fall:
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/77650/sources-catholic-7-keep-big-east (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/77650/sources-catholic-7-keep-big-east)
ESPN updates its report: "While Butler, Xavier and, most likely, Creighton are expected to join the new Big East this fall, the Catholic 7 schools are also expected to add Dayton and St. Louis in 2014 for a 12-team league." I wonder how this will impact the Horizon League or Valparaiso?
With Creighton possibly being a part of this C-7 thing, I have to believe that Valpo would be on an MVC list of potential replacements. We also don't know but what ML might actively pursue a move to the MVC. After all, he spearheaded our move to the HL, so he's not afraid to pull the trigger on major change if he thinks it's in the best interest of the University and its athletic programs.
the MVC?
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k-e2EHBsQJ0/TBa8VcFmaQI/AAAAAAAAAA4/HsVGCg_EmUs/s1600/MissouriValleyConferenceMegaMap.PNG)
the MVC!!!
And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/520/hailants.jpg)
(http://2.media.sportspickle.cvcdn.com/92/62/0983c9a7876c0c024b9b917c3381f33b-ncaa-conference-realignment-the-board-game.jpg)
Quote from: wh on February 28, 2013, 09:13:59 PM
With Creighton possibly being a part of this C-7 thing, I have to believe that Valpo would be on an MVC list of potential replacements. We also don't know but what ML might actively pursue a move to the MVC. After all, he spearheaded our move to the HL, so he's not afraid to pull the trigger on major change if he thinks it's in the best interest of the University and its athletic programs.
The latest from USA Today: "If Creighton leaves, the Valley would love to add St. Louis, but it appears the Billikens are likely headed to the Catholic 7. The replacement would likely come from a pool of Midwestern schools such as Valparaiso (Horizon), Oakland (Summit) or perhaps Oral Roberts (Southland)."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/02/28/catholic-7-missouri-valley-atlantic-10-chain-reaction/1955419/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/02/28/catholic-7-missouri-valley-atlantic-10-chain-reaction/1955419/)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/02/28/catholic-7-missouri-valley-atlantic-10-chain-reaction/1955419/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/02/28/catholic-7-missouri-valley-atlantic-10-chain-reaction/1955419/)
Valpo, UDM are mentioned specifically in this article in the final paragraphs. Don't know what weight our mention carries, it's just interesting to see our name in this kind of story
QuoteIf the A-10 wants to replace schools, it will have options in the Horizon League (Detroit Mercy), the Metro Atlantic (Siena, Fairfield, Manhattan), the Colonial (George Mason, James Madison) or the Southern Conference (Davidson, College of Charleston).
If Creighton leaves, the Valley would love to add St. Louis, but it appears the Billikens are likely headed to the Catholic 7. The replacement would likely come from a pool of Midwestern schools such as Valparaiso (Horizon), Oakland (Summit) or perhaps Oral Roberts (Southland).
In other words, the chain reaction is only beginning. The Catholic 7 wanted to break away from the football schools to secure their future, free from the worries of realignment. But they're about to cause chaos among any number of their peers.
That is pretty cool to see, as I believe it is the first time we have been in an MVC story. If it was down to those three schools, I really like our chances. ORU left a better basketball conference to play in a closer distance conference, so I don't see them moving to the MVC or being invited. Oakland wouldn't be as developed as us in the national eye, or have the NCAA history, so I put us ahead there too. I would just worry about them poaching the left over A-10 Midwest team that is not in the new conference if they go to 10 instead of 12 (most likely Dayton or SLU).
Detroit just doesn't make any sense in an A-10 without a Midwest presence. If the 4 A-10 teams leave for the new conference and Detroit joins the A-10, their AD needs to lose his job.
Heck, let's take Drake, Bradley, and Evansville as our 3, and I will be happy :). That would secure a few more private schools with each having some basketball history. This would give us a nice even split of 6 private and 6 public
Quote from: valpotx on March 01, 2013, 01:25:55 AMDetroit just doesn't make any sense in an A-10 without a Midwest presence. If the 4 A-10 teams leave for the new conference and Detroit joins the A-10, their AD needs to lose his job.
Remember, Detroit has just an interim AD, Jason Horn. I'm sure any decisions about changing conferences would come from President Antoine Garibaldi. Of course with a lot of input from Horn, McCallum and the other coaches. They have men's Lacrosse but of course that stays in it's own conference. They play some D-II teams in Lacrosse including Bellarmine, Notre Dame, Albion (MI), Ohio State, Navy, Robert Morris, Quinnipiac, Marist (PFL team), VMI, Jacksonville (PFL), Manhattan, Siena, Michigan, Marquette and Canisius.
ESPN reports: Joining the Catholic 7 schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Villanova -- in the new "Big East" this fall will be Xavier and Butler, sources said.
MVC will be untouched. I don't think we will see a dominoe effect like most of us were anticipating.
If The Valley called we'd be the smallest school just a smidge smaller than Evansville and wouldn't it be contingent on some facilities upgrades -- i.e., the ARC would be the smallest arena in the conference (7 schools have capacities >10K and 3 have capacities >7K) and Em Bauer Field would need to be upgraded somewhat or moved to it's future location sooner than planned? We would bring a full complement of conference sports plus bowling and PFL football. Five sports would benefit greatly by the conference competition: M&WBB (of course), M&WSO, Baseball, Softball and Volleyball.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 01, 2013, 07:20:58 AM
ESPN reports: Joining the Catholic 7 schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Villanova -- in the new "Big East" this fall will be Xavier and Butler, sources said.
MVC will be untouched. I don't think we will see a dominoe effect like most of us were anticipating.
not yet at least. i find it a little hard to believe that they're going to simply sit tight with 9 schools. wouldn't surprise me in the least if they work on adding a couple more over the next couple years, and the valley, while a little far west of their footprint, is a reasonable conference to at least look at.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 01, 2013, 07:20:58 AM
ESPN reports: Joining the Catholic 7 schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Villanova -- in the new "Big East" this fall will be Xavier and Butler, sources said.
I saw that too.
My money would be on St. Louis or Dayton first then maybe Creighton -- but CU is a full state further than St. Louis and there are the "other sports" to consider.
Right now the 'new' Big East stretches from Providence, RI to Indianapolis, IN/ Milwaukee, WI/ Chicago, IL. Unless they see a two division league, I don't see CU. But then rumor had the Zags in too.
Because Washington state is TOTALLY east...
I wouldn't mind if we stayed in the Horizon and went on a decade long streak of winning it and getting 10-13 seeds each year. Let's do that instead of moving to a bigger conference. ;D
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2013, 07:35:12 AM
If The Valley called we'd be the smallest school just a smidge smaller than Evansville
Including grad students we are about 1000 students larger than UE. Our endowment is at least 40 M larger and our campus is 3 times the size. Yes, they play in a much larger off campus community provided facility and recieve pretty good support from the city. Having sat on their Parents Board for a number of years, I know that they view VU as major competition because we go after a very similar pool of students.
Notre Dame wants to talk to the Catholic 7:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/notre-dame-wants-talk-catholic-031120555--ncaab.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/notre-dame-wants-talk-catholic-031120555--ncaab.html)
Where will ND land?
http://articles.southbendtribune.com/2013-02-28/sports/37359310_1_irish-land-muffet-mcgraw-big-east (http://articles.southbendtribune.com/2013-02-28/sports/37359310_1_irish-land-muffet-mcgraw-big-east)
Can't say I'm surprised by these developments. If ND delays movement to the ACC for any reason, thus endeth whatever perception is left of ACC stability, particularly with the internet rumors flying around that UVA is already gone, IMO.
It will be interesting to see 1) when ND "formally" moves to the ACC and how so initially (basketball only, OLY only, etc.) and 2) who will be paying their exit fees (*cough* Maryland* *cough* ACC *cough*) either in whole or in part to the BE. Should be intriguing.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on March 01, 2013, 07:38:52 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 01, 2013, 07:20:58 AM
ESPN reports: Joining the Catholic 7 schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Villanova -- in the new "Big East" this fall will be Xavier and Butler, sources said.
MVC will be untouched. I don't think we will see a dominoe effect like most of us were anticipating.
not yet at least. i find it a little hard to believe that they're going to simply sit tight with 9 schools. wouldn't surprise me in the least if they work on adding a couple more over the next couple years, and the valley, while a little far west of their footprint, is a reasonable conference to at least look at.
Even though nine is a strange number, from a scheduling standpoint, its perfect. Having the teams play a full double round-robin schedule of 16 games is the perfect model...giving enough inventory for the networks and leaving enough non-conference games for teams to a) play some good teams, b) play some cupcakes and c) play in a preseason tournament without struggling to squeeze them all into their 30 game limit.
Notre Dame makes perfect sense going back to the new "Big East" since they have independent football. You do wonder if they will keep that single team network at some point though.
The new likely Big East additions to the West make UND move to Big East even more logical. DePaul and Marquette already play their soccer and volleyball teams etc.
What a game of musical chairs!!
Note that the SB paper quotes the BB coaches talking about the Big East 2.0 as a stopgap between The Conference Going Down In Flames and the ACC.
If ND really cared about their precious FB independence, they would flee the ACC, which is going *up* in flames slowly, and join the Big East, er, Vatican III Conference. (Should be Lateran IV, but the truth hurts.)
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 04, 2013, 08:50:12 AMNotre Dame makes perfect sense going back to the new "Big East" since they have independent football.
Reported Catholic 7 Fox tv contract 500 million for 12yrs
ACC ESPN tv contract 3.6 Billion for 12 yrs
Notre Dame also has access to the ACC bowl tie-ins
Quote from: VU75 on March 04, 2013, 06:18:40 PMACC ESPN tv contract 3.6 Billion for 12 yrs
Seems like a no-brainer when you put it like that, except that the difference is only $15 million a year--and to ND, that's chump change. Maybe even less when you calculate the cost of a) not having to fly girls' tennis to Miami etc and more importantly how do you put a price on b) regaining all the football independence you gave up.
As far as bowl tie-ins, ND hasn't had those ever (other than the BCS) and has managed to do all right for themselves.
I really hope ESPN has got the whole "C7 to take the Big East name" thing as wrong as they got the Duke Lacross story. Taking the name Big East is way too confusing.
I believe more news should be coming today as well, based on reports of when Fox Sports wanted to announce the agreement:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9019093/big-east-football-schools-keep-close-110-million-league-split-according-report (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9019093/big-east-football-schools-keep-close-110-million-league-split-according-report)
Confirmation of a summer change:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9026064/catholic-7-reaches-agreement-leave-big-east-summer-sources-say (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9026064/catholic-7-reaches-agreement-leave-big-east-summer-sources-say)
We might have an America 12 Conference:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9028021/big-east-eyes-america-12-new-conference-name-football-schools-sources-say (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9028021/big-east-eyes-america-12-new-conference-name-football-schools-sources-say)
Horizon League Commissioner LeCrone talks about conference realignments. From his comments, it doesn't sound like we can expect news very soon:
``We can survive as a nine-member league. But we not only want to maintain our brand, we want to improve on it. We've spent a lot of time talking about our internal growth. We want to improve in scheduling, officiating, basketball operations, competitiveness and student development issues.
``When you consider where we want to be basketball-wise, it's hard not to consider expansion in this environment,'' he added. ``We want to remain a top brand. I think our league is pretty well positioned [to remain intact.]''
All conferences have ``wish lists'' of potential future members—and of potential member defectors.
``I think we're pretty well-positioned to take advantage of opportunities [to expand] than to be too worried about departures,'' he said. ``The wild-card is you don't know who or when. It would be naïve to think schools would not be presented with other options,'' he added.
`I think we'll see some clarity in the next 30 to 45 days.''
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/18674836-419/new-big-east-likely-to-trigger-more-conference-defections.html (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/18674836-419/new-big-east-likely-to-trigger-more-conference-defections.html)
Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2013, 03:31:38 AM
Confirmation of a summer change:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9026064/catholic-7-reaches-agreement-leave-big-east-summer-sources-say (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9026064/catholic-7-reaches-agreement-leave-big-east-summer-sources-say)
Interesting analysis of the nBE's future by Mike LoPresti in USAToday.
Link?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/lopresti/2013/03/08/big-east-divorce-catholic-7-seven/1970967/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/lopresti/2013/03/08/big-east-divorce-catholic-7-seven/1970967/)
It's hard to keep track of all the different reports and the validity of them, but if ESPN is right (not holding my breath too much) that they want 10 teams for next year instead of just 9, that might push Creighton out of the MVC immediately. The A-10 is scheduled to lose two schools over each of the next two years and if the MVC is going to lose a good all-around athletics program like CU this quick, that'll make things tough in the Valley to hold on...
Confirmed by ESPN:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9031167/catholic-7-leaving-big-east-june-30 (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9031167/catholic-7-leaving-big-east-june-30)
Earlier it was reported we would here about new additions in March
Taken from the CSU board. Interview with the HL commissioner:
http://www.sportsradio1260.com/player/?station=WNDE-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=queryandschultz.xml&mid=22958547 (http://www.sportsradio1260.com/player/?station=WNDE-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=queryandschultz.xml&mid=22958547)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/mvc/2013/03/08/missouri-valley-creighton-replacement-belmont-denver/1973937/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/mvc/2013/03/08/missouri-valley-creighton-replacement-belmont-denver/1973937/)
As opposed to the last big USA Today story on Creighton and the MVC, we are not mentioned. This story lists Belmont/Denver as favorites to replace CU, Loyola also in the picture, Oral Roberts a dark horse
I believe that whatever plans were made to announce the additions to the Horizon League in March have been put on hold due to all the movement in the mid-major conferences. Those schools that had said they would join next fall may be rethinking their moves so they can see how everything falls out. That to me would be a smart thing to do. So, it seems HL expansion is on hold for now.
That just shows that their move may be based on city, not school. Anyone that would take Loyola is not thinking about competitiveness in sports, just them being based in Chicago. Belmont (Nashville) and Denver (obvious) make sense, as they are at least playing well in basketball. I truly believe that we are 'stuck' in the HL because of not being located in a large city. I say stuck, as it would take some major moves elsewhere for us to upgrade conferences in the future.
Quote from: KL31NY on March 08, 2013, 02:45:05 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/mvc/2013/03/08/missouri-valley-creighton-replacement-belmont-denver/1973937/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/mvc/2013/03/08/missouri-valley-creighton-replacement-belmont-denver/1973937/)
As opposed to the last big USA Today story on Creighton and the MVC, we are not mentioned. This story lists Belmont/Denver as favorites to replace CU, Loyola also in the picture, Oral Roberts a dark horse
Interesting that the MVC might be interested in Loyola. It can't have anything to do with the quality of their men's basketball program. They are a Horizon League bottom feeder and for the most part have been mediocre to terrible for decades. Like UIC they barely get a mention by the Chicago sports media. Even if they did something news worthy, they would still get minimal coverage because Chicago (like many large American cities) is all about professional sports - Bears, Cubs, Sox, Bulls and Hawks. They do little to nothing to benefit the HL, and would bring even less to the table in a higher-rated league. Other than that, I can see how they might be considered a great fit.
Quote from: wh on March 08, 2013, 03:55:55 PM
Quote from: KL31NY on March 08, 2013, 02:45:05 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/mvc/2013/03/08/missouri-valley-creighton-replacement-belmont-denver/1973937/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/mvc/2013/03/08/missouri-valley-creighton-replacement-belmont-denver/1973937/)
As opposed to the last big USA Today story on Creighton and the MVC, we are not mentioned. This story lists Belmont/Denver as favorites to replace CU, Loyola also in the picture, Oral Roberts a dark horse
Interesting that the MVC might be interested in Loyola. It can't have anything to do with the quality of their men's basketball program. They are a Horizon League bottom feeder and for the most part have been mediocre to terrible for decades. Like UIC they barely get a mention by the Chicago sports media. Even if they did something news worthy, they would still get minimal coverage because Chicago (like many large American cities) is all about professional sports - Bears, Cubs, Sox, Bulls and Hawks. They do little to nothing to benefit the HL, and would bring even less to the table in a higher-rated league. Other than that, I can see how they might be considered a great fit.
Hahaha!
Also, to add more than a chuckle at wh's comment, I think the "American 12" is a horrific name for a conference. It violates the two rules of naming a new conference:
1. Don't use geographical names -see Big East (Marquette, DePaul, San Diego St at one point), Great West (NJIT)
2. Don't indicate the number of teams in your conference (A-10 has 30 teams, Big 1G has 12, Big 12 has 10ish)
Unfortunately the New Big East violates rule number 1, and the American 12 violates rule number 2.
But hey, at least their now the "American East 12"
Quote from: valpotx on March 08, 2013, 03:45:12 PM
That just shows that their move may be based on city, not school. Anyone that would take Loyola is not thinking about competitiveness in sports, just them being based in Chicago. Belmont (Nashville) and Denver (obvious) make sense, as they are at least playing well in basketball. I truly believe that we are 'stuck' in the HL because of not being located in a large city. I say stuck, as it would take some major moves elsewhere for us to upgrade conferences in the future.
Carbondale. IL
Evansville, IN
Terra Haute, IN
Peoria, IL
ETC.
I looked at the locations of the MVC schools and what struck me was that none were in urban locations; it was isolation from urban locations. They have selected mid-sized towns (100K or less) with good sized universities where the "U" is the only game in town. Brilliant. Unfortunately Valpo is a tweener -- in a non-urban setting, but close enough to a big urban center that it gets lost in the noise. Loyola or UIC does not, IMO, come close to the MVC model. That's just smoke.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 08, 2013, 04:36:40 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 08, 2013, 03:45:12 PM
That just shows that their move may be based on city, not school. Anyone that would take Loyola is not thinking about competitiveness in sports, just them being based in Chicago. Belmont (Nashville) and Denver (obvious) make sense, as they are at least playing well in basketball. I truly believe that we are 'stuck' in the HL because of not being located in a large city. I say stuck, as it would take some major moves elsewhere for us to upgrade conferences in the future.
Carbondale. IL
Evansville, IN
Terra Haute, IN
Peoria, IL
ETC.
I looked at the locations of the MVC schools and what struck me was that none were in urban locations; it was isolation from urban locations. They have selected mid-sized towns (100K or less) with good sized universities where the "U" is the only game in town. Brilliant. Unfortunately Valpo is a tweener -- in a non-urban setting, but close enough to a big urban center that it gets lost in the noise. Loyola or UIC does not, IMO, come close to the MVC model. That's just smoke.
What's next--that Saint Louis isn't a good fit for the MVC either? I'll bet the MVC would be ecstatic if SLU showed interest.
LUC is as good as an option in the Midwest for the MVC as any other private school, IMO. It fulfills the public/private balance that is in place in the MVC, provides the MVC with an historical name from a basketball program standpoint, and gives them an inroad to a major metropolitan area while keeping their geographical footprint intact in its entirety. They also have a brand new basketball facility. Not sure I see the problem.
Oh and by the way, unrelated to the post I quoted above, how quickly we forget that we were a 9-22 bottom feeder four years ago. Let's not throw stones.
The difference is that our 9-22 bottom feeder year was due to 2 key players leaving the team long before their SR year (Haanpaa and Bouchie). Loyola's mediocre play is due to mediocre recruits, coaches, etc. That season for us was a HUGE anomaly. We are a program with 13 20-win seasons in the last 20 years. How many does Loyola have?
Edit: Not sure how I misspelled 'anomaly' as incorrect spelling is a pet peeve of mine. :)
Valpo had a bad year; loyola's been bad since the Vietnam War.
Loyola doesn't have a brand new facility. It's the old facility with a new look. If ony Loyola was good enough for a newer facility, but they aren't anything more than an academic school posing as an athletic program with a meager basketball history.
Quote from: wh on March 08, 2013, 05:12:30 PMloyola's been bad since the Vietnam War.
hey! their last (i.e. "other") trip to the NCAA was actually during the halcyon days of the Reagan administration!
one of the conference guys tweeted yesterday, i believe, that he thinks we'll add one and stay at 10 for a while.
If that is the case, hopefully it is Evansville. They fit the conference blueprint, add baseball, and can compete better in the HL. I guess it will all depend on whether Detroit gets an invite to the A-10 and leaves, as I don't see Loyola getting invited anywhere.
yeah, if all this boils down to adding Oakland, that will be the most anticlimactic, blatantly obvious conference expansion since ... well... ok most of them.
Quote from: valpotx on March 08, 2013, 05:04:59 PMThat season for us was a HUGE anamoly.
An ANOMALY! Great! That will bring in the Valpo students!
enamoly? that will bring in the pre-dental students!
I am very surprised that the "Catholic 7" seems set to add Creighton and NOT St. Louis U. Dayton and SLU seem like much better fits into the eastern group than Butler and Creighton.
Detroit hasn't got a prayer to enter the Catholic 7 group. SLU and Dayton are way ahead of them.
In US News categories, Creighton, Butler, Bradley, Drake, and Valpo are always grouped near the top of midwest masters'. Dayton and SLU are doctorate universities. Creighton has a med school and dominates their category, but still......
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 09, 2013, 10:06:36 AM
I am very surprised that the "Catholic 7" seems set to add Creighton and NOT St. Louis U.
t/here you go:
(http://oi50.tinypic.com/raolki.jpg)
Fair enough, but it's a major league city with big-time arena. Recruiting would accelerate for them.
By the way, you are a web linking graphics grabbing machine. I'm in the 1990s barely grasping the concept of a "link". ;D
thanks! well, if you check out the first posts on the Valpo Memes page, you'll see I was PRETTY awkward until I got the hang of it.
Valpo04 was like the senior helping the freshman with his locker combo over there.
Quote from: valpotx on March 08, 2013, 05:04:59 PM
The difference is that our 9-22 bottom feeder year was due to 2 key players leaving the team long before their SR year (Haanpaa and Bouchie). Loyola's mediocre play is due to mediocre recruits, coaches, etc. That season for us was a HUGE anomaly. We are a program with 13 20-win seasons in the last 20 years. How many does Loyola have?
Edit: Not sure how I misspelled 'anomaly' as incorrect spelling is a pet peeve of mine. :)
4-22. 5-22. 5-22. Do those numbers mean anything to you? Again, let's not throw stones.
Lion King - What did you do that for - the past can hurt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZfGTL2PY3E#)
Quote from: valporun on March 08, 2013, 05:41:40 PM
Loyola doesn't have a brand new facility. It's the old facility with a new look. If ony Loyola was good enough for a newer facility, but they aren't anything more than an academic school posing as an athletic program with a meager basketball history.
A national championship program with a meager basketball history. Got it. I guarantee you that Mississippi State will disagree with you.
Two, not one, but
two brand new or renovated (whatever you want to call it so you can sleep better at night) basketball arenas in the last, um let's see here...15 years. And what is Valpo doing? Competing in its pile of crap, same tired high school basketball facility--a facility that has been in place for what, the last three decades...and counting. Valpo's commitment pales in comparison.
You've convinced me. Loyola sucks. What is the MVC thinking.
Let's not throw stones.
(http://arnoldzwicky.s3.amazonaws.com/FarSideGrassHouses.jpeg)
Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 09, 2013, 12:04:59 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 08, 2013, 05:04:59 PM
The difference is that our 9-22 bottom feeder year was due to 2 key players leaving the team long before their SR year (Haanpaa and Bouchie). Loyola's mediocre play is due to mediocre recruits, coaches, etc. That season for us was a HUGE anomaly. We are a program with 13 20-win seasons in the last 20 years. How many does Loyola have?
Edit: Not sure how I misspelled 'anomaly' as incorrect spelling is a pet peeve of mine. :)
4-22. 5-22. 5-22. Do those numbers mean anything to you? Again, let's not throw stones.
That was more than 20 years ago. I was speaking over the last 20
ND officially leaving the OBE after this season:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9042949/notre-dame-big-east-agree-irish-exit-2-years-early-join-acc (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9042949/notre-dame-big-east-agree-irish-exit-2-years-early-join-acc)
NBE will announce new members in 7-10 days. It sounds like things will be picking up shortly!
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9049766/source-new-big-east-announce-additional-members-7-10-days (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9049766/source-new-big-east-announce-additional-members-7-10-days)
Quote from: valpotx on March 12, 2013, 11:35:36 AM
ND officially leaving the OBE after this season:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9042949/notre-dame-big-east-agree-irish-exit-2-years-early-join-acc (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9042949/notre-dame-big-east-agree-irish-exit-2-years-early-join-acc)
I really have to wonder how much ND is kicking themselves with the move to the ACC
when they did. With the Big East splitting off the way they did, ND might have had a little more negotiating power and only have to play 3/4 ACC games vs. the 5 they're going to play now. The only reason ND joined the ACC was to steal their conference tie in's for bowls. That's it, nothing more.
Quote from: valpotx on March 14, 2013, 11:34:43 AM
NBE will announce new members in 7-10 days. It sounds like things will be picking up shortly!
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9049766/source-new-big-east-announce-additional-members-7-10-days (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9049766/source-new-big-east-announce-additional-members-7-10-days)
The only X factor in this is...Creighton or somebody else. Butler and Xavier are gone. I have to hand it to Butler, what a leap in less than 5 years!
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 14, 2013, 02:17:41 PMI really have to wonder how much ND is kicking themselves with the move to the ACC when they did.
But they still did! They had time to be like "whoa" and could have joined the Catholic 7, kept their other sport rivalries and their precious FB independence. Makes NO sense to me.
Then again,
maybe it's all because the ACC created a fictitious conference site online ("single BCS conference seeks Major Independent for fun n gamez!") that fooled the ND brass into telling the press about this relationship they were all excited about...
AND THEN THAT'S WHY THE WBB TEAM WENT OUT AND FINALLY WON THE BIG EAST!?!?!!!!
(http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-sports-guru/files/2013/01/manti-teo-shirt-624x633.jpg)
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 14, 2013, 02:18:50 PMCreighton or somebody else. Butler and Xavier are gone. I have to hand it to Butler, what a leap in less than 5 years!
Similar to FSU football's 5 years in the top 10 (87-92) and then joining the ACC out of independence.
Except that FSU won their conference. And for 9 straight years.
So I'm wondering, with Xavier and that other school (shouldn't mention their name here any longer) leaving the A-10, is there any schools left that might want to jump to the Horizon? St. Louis would be a major coup but somehow I think they will end up with the other Catholic 9 and 1 other. Dayton? Could work but aren't they a good fit for the Catholic 9 plus one but St. Louis could make it the Catholic 11 plus one. I wonder how that name would fit around a free throw line? Oh yeah, thery're keeping the Big East (plus Nebraska, Ohio, Wisconsin and Indiana) So much for geographical accuracy.
Quote from: vu72 on March 14, 2013, 04:39:28 PM
So I'm wondering, with Xavier and that other school (shouldn't mention their name here any longer) leaving the A-10, is there any schools left that might want to jump to the Horizon? St. Louis would be a major coup but somehow I think they will end up with the other Catholic 9 and 1 other. Dayton? Could work but aren't they a good fit for the Catholic 9 plus one but St. Louis could make it the Catholic 11 plus one. I wonder how that name would fit around a free throw line? Oh yeah, thery're keeping the Big East (plus Nebraska, Ohio, Wisconsin and Indiana) So much for geographical accuracy.
I can't see any A10 team leaving for the Horizon, it just wouldn't make any cents :twocents:
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 14, 2013, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 14, 2013, 04:39:28 PM
So I'm wondering, with Xavier and that other school (shouldn't mention their name here any longer) leaving the A-10, is there any schools left that might want to jump to the Horizon? St. Louis would be a major coup but somehow I think they will end up with the other Catholic 9 and 1 other. Dayton? Could work but aren't they a good fit for the Catholic 9 plus one but St. Louis could make it the Catholic 11 plus one. I wonder how that name would fit around a free throw line? Oh yeah, thery're keeping the Big East (plus Nebraska, Ohio, Wisconsin and Indiana) So much for geographical accuracy.
I can't see any A10 team leaving for the Horizon, it just wouldn't make any cents :twocents:
For whom? Geographically the remaining teams make no sense but neither does Creighton playing in the "Big East". Still, we would have very little interest in St. bonnie, Duquense, Richmond (maybe), Rhode Island, fordham or LaSalle. Some recent or historical success (LaSalle pretty good this year and St. Bonnie a long time ago).
Horizon League might be a great hiding place for Richmond after today's debacle ;)
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 14, 2013, 08:14:36 PMHorizon League might be a great hiding place for Richmond after today's debacle
dear God, yes. if you don't know, read this:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9053689/richmond-spiders-called-3-technical-fouls-lose-charlotte-49ers-atlantic-10-tournament (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9053689/richmond-spiders-called-3-technical-fouls-lose-charlotte-49ers-atlantic-10-tournament)
and then put in "Valpo" for every "Richmond" and contemplate losing in your conf. tourney in that manner...
...that's awful. O-F-F-A-L.
NY Post reporting Butler, Dayton, Xavier to join Big East next season (2013-2014) with Creighton and St. Louis to follow in 2014-2015, but no official confirmation or denial yet:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZSxkf8IM (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/butler_dayton_xavier_to_join_next_HWBR8nzwcf0a0rZSxkf8IM)
Quote from: vu72 on March 14, 2013, 04:39:28 PMSo I'm wondering, with Xavier and that other school (shouldn't mention their name here any longer) leaving the A-10, is there any schools left that might want to jump to the Horizon?
Temple or Charlotte? I can sure be stubborn as a bulld :-* g when it comes to these things.
If that is true, I am glad to be on target with my predictions from the start of the C7 expansion talk :). As much as I dislike Detroit, I don't want to see them leave for the A-10, and the same for Loyola to any MVC rumors. If we can pull through this next year, I think that we will be stable for a good bit of time
Quote from: valpotx on March 15, 2013, 12:26:44 AM
If that is true, I am glad to be on target with my predictions from the start of the C7 expansion talk :). As much as I dislike Detroit, I don't want to see them leave for the A-10, and the same for Loyola to any MVC rumors. If we can pull through this next year, I think that we will be stable for a good bit of time
Speculation on this board: http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10-conference/485553-future-a10-thread-25.html (http://www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10-conference/485553-future-a10-thread-25.html) indicates that the A-10 will look to expand with schools that are traditionally more north and east in geographical location than in years past. If this is true, UDM is probably off the clock for A-10 expansion and the HL will dodge at least one expansion bullet. The MVC would then appear to be the conference that could pose the most instability to the league with talk about LUC as a potential replacement.
Quote from: vu72 on March 14, 2013, 06:53:59 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 14, 2013, 06:45:54 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 14, 2013, 04:39:28 PM
So I'm wondering, with Xavier and that other school (shouldn't mention their name here any longer) leaving the A-10, is there any schools left that might want to jump to the Horizon? St. Louis would be a major coup but somehow I think they will end up with the other Catholic 9 and 1 other. Dayton? Could work but aren't they a good fit for the Catholic 9 plus one but St. Louis could make it the Catholic 11 plus one. I wonder how that name would fit around a free throw line? Oh yeah, thery're keeping the Big East (plus Nebraska, Ohio, Wisconsin and Indiana) So much for geographical accuracy.
I can't see any A10 team leaving for the Horizon, it just wouldn't make any cents :twocents:
For whom? Geographically the remaining teams make no sense but neither does Creighton playing in the "Big East". Still, we would have very little interest in St. bonnie, Duquense, Richmond (maybe), Rhode Island, fordham or LaSalle. Some recent or historical success (LaSalle pretty good this year and St. Bonnie a long time ago).
For whom? Any A10 team. The buyout wouldn't be worth it, and you'd be losing the TV package. The Horizon League is a step down. As for geography and conference alignment...that went out the window a long time ago. West Virginia in the Big 12? Um, sure, that's near Texas...haha. It's all about money and TV markets, and will only continue down that route.
New reports (CBS Sports, Indy Star and Omaha World Herald) state Creighton will move to Big East this fall with Butler and most likely Xavier, no word in this article on St. Louis and Dayton, which the NY Post had said would also join the new Big East. Moves expected to be officially announced Wednesday or Thursday:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21886474/reports-butler-creighton-to-join-new-big-east (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21886474/reports-butler-creighton-to-join-new-big-east)
Maybe Denver can join the MVC in Creighton's place (sounds like an old soap opera) and then switch conferences with UMKC. UMKC to the MVC and Denver back to the WAC where they actually geographically fit. Wouldn't that be amazing to have geographical fits in college sports conferences?
Quote from: historyman on March 16, 2013, 02:10:27 AM
Maybe Denver can join the MVC in Creighton's place (sounds like an old soap opera) and then switch conferences with UMKC. UMKC to the MVC and Denver back to the WAC where they actually geographically fit. Wouldn't that be amazing to have geographical fits in college sports conferences?
Yep, sure would! Sadly those days are long gone. Follow the $$$. I expect more and more conference movement over time. I don't think things will be settled...well, ever.
Butler will join Big East:
http://collegespun.com/homepage/conference-realignment-update-butler-officially-joining-big-east (http://collegespun.com/homepage/conference-realignment-update-butler-officially-joining-big-east)
Good for them. They've been working toward such a move for the last 25 years if you really think about it.
They need to erect a statue for Barry Collier in front of Hinkle.
Its official, Creighton going to the big east. Does MVC stay at 9 or add another university? A10 will eventually lose Dayton and SLU.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20130319/SPORTS0605/303190067/Butler-s-move-new-Big-East-no-brainer- (http://www.indystar.com/article/20130319/SPORTS0605/303190067/Butler-s-move-new-Big-East-no-brainer-)
Mentioned earlier and not a surprise. Interesting to see LeCrone quoted ... "In the current college landscape," LeCrone said, "status quo is probably not the best decision"
I know he was talking about Butler (can I say that in this section of the board??), but am curious how that relates to others. Creighton leaving creates a spot in the MVC. In another thread, wh said he'd rather have Valpo stay where they are. Hard to know the right answer.
Here's some detail on the business decisions that were made by Butler. http://www.ibj.com/article/print?articleId=40197 (http://www.ibj.com/article/print?articleId=40197) This may or may not apply to Valpo. They may not want to take that path. I'm just sharing information.
That second article was a great read. There's the model right there. Valpo could run with the whole enchilada or just a portion and still realize great benefits. Lots of smart marketing. It is important to see the correlation between athletic success and applications, enrollment and giving. And basketball is the ideal vehicle. The scholarship burden is minimal (13 compared to, say, football at 65-85) as is the facility investment - Butler didn't even renovate Hinkle in the process; that's only happening now.
Interesting that even now 44% of their students are from Indiana and it was at 56%. They were a very regional school. Valpo has historically been more national with 30% of students coming from Indiana today. I like the approach as adding applications obviously allow for being more picky and higher quality students means more success going forward.
DONE DEAL __ OFFICIALLY. posted on ESPN March 20, 2013, 12:16 PM ET
ESPN.com news services
X, Butler and Creighton to New Big East
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9074722/new-big-east-adds-butler-bulldogs-creighton-bluejays-xavier-musketeers (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9074722/new-big-east-adds-butler-bulldogs-creighton-bluejays-xavier-musketeers)
With Creighton leaving the MVC, people on message boards are posting their favorites for replacements. Here are some of my favorites from the UNI board "Panther Nation" about Valpo and the MVC. Realistically, it's probably Belmont or Denver, but it's fun to be in the discussion.
http://www.panthernation.com/showpost.php?p=350558&postcount=1 (http://www.panthernation.com/showpost.php?p=350558&postcount=1)
http://www.panthernation.com/showpost.php?p=350595&postcount=13 (http://www.panthernation.com/showpost.php?p=350595&postcount=13)
http://www.panthernation.com/showpost.php?p=350677&postcount=39 (http://www.panthernation.com/showpost.php?p=350677&postcount=39)
Really surprised they want Milwaukee over Valpo. Doesn't make sense....But again its northern Iowa...
I want to see the summit league blow up. What would Western Illinois, IUPUI and IPFW do??? I know its mean but I'm going to be the villain here. Rather you think it's realistic or not, let's say, the Dakotas go to MVC. That's it for the SL and then what do Western Illinois, IUPUI and IPFW do???
No Valpo due to terrible facilities then mention Milwaukee. They obviously haven't been to that dump.
George Mason to announce move to the A-10:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21940151/george-mason-heading-to-the-a-10 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21940151/george-mason-heading-to-the-a-10)
wait...a conference move that ... that actually makes sense?
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24099598.jpg)
Good to see that the A-10 is looking to replace those that left with teams that are actually in their territory. Maybe the HL will stay together!
Quote from: a3uge on March 21, 2013, 11:12:42 PM
No Valpo due to terrible facilities then mention Milwaukee. They obviously haven't been to that dump.
Perhaps you should take a look at other A-10 facilities. At 5500, Valpo's seating capacity would add to the average! Fordham: seating capacity of 3200, built in 1925. St. Joseph: seating capacity of 4200, built in 1985. Duquense: seating capacity of 4406. St. Bonaventure: seating capacity of 5480. Should I go on?
3200 is leass than the seating capacity of Hilltop! I think there may have been other considerations.
Quote from: vu72 on March 25, 2013, 11:36:00 AM
Quote from: a3uge on March 21, 2013, 11:12:42 PM
No Valpo due to terrible facilities then mention Milwaukee. They obviously haven't been to that dump.
Perhaps you should take a look at other A-10 facilities. At 5500, Valpo's seating capacity would add to the average! Fordham: seating capacity of 3200, built in 1925. St. Joseph: seating capacity of 4200, built in 1985. Duquense: seating capacity of 4406. St. Bonaventure: seating capacity of 5480. Should I go on?
3200 is leass than the seating capacity of Hilltop! I think there may have been other considerations.
I was not completely clear - I was responding to the UNI forum post that mentioned Milwaukee as a suitable replacement (for the MVC), but not Valpo due to poor facilities. Anyone that has been to Klotsche Center knows how bad it is. I basically use overhead projectors for their video board.
With the A-10 adding George Mason, and SLU leaving soon (probably), I don't really see the A-10 inviting Valpo any time soon.
Official GMU announcement from ESPN:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9096516/george-mason-patriots-pay-1-million-exit-colonial-athletic-association-atlantic-10 (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9096516/george-mason-patriots-pay-1-million-exit-colonial-athletic-association-atlantic-10)
The CAA announces GMU's seven spring sports are ineligible for conference championships. I understand the monetary punishments for leaving, but doing that to student-athletes seems a bit over the top, IMO.
http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=206916860&DB_OEM_ID=8500 (http://www.caasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=206916860&DB_OEM_ID=8500)
Agree. GMU leaves at the conclusion of this academic year, right? Seems very petty.
Appalachian State and Georgia Southern to the Sun Belt for FBS play. I do like it when teams move up to FBS play, as it gives me more options to play in NCAA Football PS3 games lol:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9097544/appalachian-state-mountaineers-georgia-southern-eagles-join-sun-belt-according-sources (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9097544/appalachian-state-mountaineers-georgia-southern-eagles-join-sun-belt-according-sources)
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2013, 11:57:33 PM
Appalachian State and Georgia Southern to the Sun Belt for FBS play. I do like it when teams move up to FBS play, as it gives me more options to play in NCAA Football PS3 games lol:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9097544/appalachian-state-mountaineers-georgia-southern-eagles-join-sun-belt-according-sources (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9097544/appalachian-state-mountaineers-georgia-southern-eagles-join-sun-belt-according-sources)
I do like it when teams move to Division 1 for basketball, it gives me more options to play in a PS3 NCAA basketball game #saidNoOneEver
I saw a text from ESPN updates this morning that Idaho and New Mexico State are moving to the Sun Belt Conference in 2014. I don't exactly understand that move at all. Talk about only looking at the RPI upgrade for two programs that don't enhance a conference's chances, or an athlete's classroom exposure.
I believe that it will just be for football, as they used to be members of the Sun Belt before the WAC.
Edit:
Football only confirmed: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9099719/idaho-vandals-new-mexico-state-aggies-headed-sun-belt-conference-2014-sources-say (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9099719/idaho-vandals-new-mexico-state-aggies-headed-sun-belt-conference-2014-sources-say)
Looks like Tulsa and East Carolina will be full members in the old Big East. It is basically CUSA again!
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9100852/tulsa-golden-hurricane-join-big-east-according-sources (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9100852/tulsa-golden-hurricane-join-big-east-according-sources)
ORU in Preliminary Talks with Missouri Valley
"Switching to the MVC would allow ORU to transition to a league which typically gets more than just its tournament champion into the NCAA Tournament. The MVC's RPI this season ranked ninth out of 32 NCAA Division I conferences. The Summit League was 19th. The Southland was 25th. ORU, Belmont, Valparaiso and Denver have been speculated among possible replacements for Creighton in media reports."
Not sure how much substance here yet or what other schools are talking with the MVC:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=234&articleid=20130326_234_0_TheMis322605&allcom=1 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=234&articleid=20130326_234_0_TheMis322605&allcom=1)
OMG, just about every Midwestern team has had 'preliminary' talks with the MVC. That story means absolutely nothing at this point lol ;D
East Carolina and Tulsa to join to-be-named old-Big East conference:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/21959197/east-carolina-joining-big-east-in-all-sports (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/21959197/east-carolina-joining-big-east-in-all-sports)
Mentioned 3 posts ago ;)
Quote from: valpotx on March 27, 2013, 11:00:24 AM
Mentioned 3 posts ago ;)
Different story and source, adds to credibility of the reports.
(http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/090311/repost-ive-seen-this-before.gif)
Well, I guess I'll have to blue pencil my #1 choice for HL expansion...
WKU to CUSA in 2014:
http://www.wkusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5400&ATCLID=207019336 (http://www.wkusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5400&ATCLID=207019336)
always a real long shot because of football anyway.
A-10 Close to Adding Davidson, Considering Siena:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22072822/a-10-close-to-adding-davidson (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22072822/a-10-close-to-adding-davidson)
Figured that they would only be adding East coast schools now. Since Dayton and SLU are basically already in the NBE, they have no reason to add Midwestern schools such as a Detroit. I believe that the only HL teams capable of making a conference move in the coming seasons are UIC and Valpo (after Loyola's move, of course).
As expected, Davidson is moving to the A-10. Sorry Detroit :)!
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9251315/atlantic-10-add-davidson-wildcats-2014-15-source-says (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9251315/atlantic-10-add-davidson-wildcats-2014-15-source-says)
Wow, the CAA has been decimated, having to invite Elon to get to 10 all-sports members:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9305685/elon-joining-colonial-athletic-association-latest-expansion-move (http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9305685/elon-joining-colonial-athletic-association-latest-expansion-move)
Quote from: valpotx on May 23, 2013, 03:56:09 PMWow, the CAA has been decimated, having to invite Elon to get to 10 all-sports members
probably they are dyslexic and thought they were inviting FSU
East Tennessee and Mercer will join the Southern Conference next July leaving the Atlantic Sun with the minimum seven eligible for two years until Northern Kentucky gets full membership.
So does this make NKY more or less likely to bolt?
According to the front page of this site (written in jest I presume), PNC is the most likely new member of the Horizon League! :rotfl:
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on June 01, 2013, 06:38:52 PM
So does this make NKY more or less likely to bolt?
I think it makes NKU more likely to bolt. They wanted into the HL when they were seeking Div I status. Now with only 8 teams in the A-Sun and their chance of expansion coming from teams from even lower ranked conferences; the fact that they are moreso in the HL's footprint than the A-Sun's; and knowing that the HL is seeking another team or two or three, their coming to the Horizon is not out of the realm of possibility.
Quote from: ARCInsider on June 01, 2013, 07:56:59 PM
According to the front page of this site (written in jest I presume), PNC is the most likely new member of the Horizon League! :rotfl:
It's written by a cartoon character, so yes, jest is the only way to take it.
They'd bolt for the Horizon in an instant, with or without these losses to the A-Sun. We just have to make the offer.
It looks like a real possibility that we will see the WAC, Summit and Atlantic Sun morph into two conferences.
Quote from: ARCInsider on June 01, 2013, 07:56:59 PM
According to the front page of this site (written in jest I presume), PNC is the most likely new member of the Horizon League! :rotfl:
If only we could ask the author if it was in jest ::)
POPE: Could new ACC be best hoops league ever? ND's Jack Swarbrick thinks so
By LaMond Pope lpope@post-trib.com or 713-2691 June 28, 2013 5:28PM
Jack Swarbrick referenced a quote from Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski, a pretty good source for college basketball, when a recent discussion turned to the strength of hoops in the ACC.
"I think coach Krzyzewski said it well. I think this is set up to be the best basketball conference in the history of college basketball," Swarbrick, Notre Dame's athletic director, said in a phone interview Thursday.
Notre Dame officially joins the ACC in every sport but football and men's ice hockey on Monday. Syracuse and Pittsburgh are also newcomers in the conference. Maryland exits for the Big Ten in 2014, but Louisville enters in that same year.
There's been a lot of talk about how Notre Dame's conference switch affects its football scheduling. Notre Dame remains independent in football, but will play five games each year against ACC teams beginning in 2014.
But there's plenty to look forward to for all the sports across the board. Especially basketball.
"When you add Syracuse and Pittsburgh (this year), and Louisville next year, and we certainly think we bring a lot, you add that to the already great power and tradition of the ACC, I don't think college basketball has ever seen anything like it, in both men and women's," Swarbrick said.
Last season, the Big Ten received a large chunk of the hype during the men's basketball season. And rightfully so, with teams like Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State and Michigan State spending time in the top 10 of the polls and each reaching at least the Sweet 16 of the tournament. But the schools that will make up the new-look ACC had quite the tournament, as well.
Of course, it starts with Louisville. The Cardinals defeated Michigan to win the championship. And then there's Syracuse, which made the Final Four.
Duke's NCAA tournament run ended in the Elite Eight, at the hands of Louisville. Miami was a No. 2 seed in the East Region and got to the Sweet 16.
North Carolina (round of 32), North Carolina State, Pittsburgh and Notre Dame also made the tournament. It was the sixth tournament appearance in the past seven years for the Irish.
Notre Dame's women's basketball team made its third straight trip to the Final Four this season. Another future ACC team, Louisville, reached the title game.
"This is going to be one incredible women's basketball conference. Louisville and Notre Dame were of course in the Final Four last year, we've been in it three consecutive years," Swarbrick said. "Duke, Maryland, up and down this conference great women's basketball, too."
I'm really looking forward to the next few chapters of the ACC-Big Ten Challenge. The ACC dominated the early rounds of the men's challenge, winning the first 10 in the series. But the Big Ten has come out on top recently, taking the next three. Last year, the conferences split the Challenge, with each winning six games.
This year's schedule includes Indiana at Syracuse, Michigan at Duke and North Carolina at Michigan State. Notre Dame gets its first taste of the Challenge with a Dec. 3 game at Iowa. It's the team's first trip to Iowa since 1950.
As for conference play for the Irish, this season features home and road games against North Carolina, Virginia, Boston College and Georgia Tech. Duke pays a visit to South Bend, the first trip to Notre Dame since 1995. The dates for the games will be announced at a later time.
Notre Dame men's basketball coach Mike Brey will continue to match wits with some of the top coaches in the country. Just look at the list. Krzyzewski, Roy Williams (North Carolina), Jim Boeheim (Syracuse) and Rick Pitino (when Louisville joins), to name a few. Krzyzewski, Williams and Pitino have each led teams to multiple national championships.
The programs have plenty of tradition of winning multiple titles. North Carolina has five national titles, Duke has four. Louisville just captured its third. North Carolina State has two titles.
"There's never been a basketball conference like this," Swarbrick said.
Time will tell if it will become the best basketball conference ever. It will be fun to watch and find out.
Well, here's one Pope who's not infallible.
Convenient for ND to spin giving up their independence as getting the "best ever" but the old Big East was really something in basketball, back in the day. Whatever the case, the B1G-ACC will tell the tale...
In reality for ND, who like Monte Teo usually has a difficult time dealing with reality, their mens basketball program does not contribute in making the ACC basketball conference "the best ever." When was the last time ND has done anything significant in basketball. Heck, I cannot remember the last time they were in the Sweet 16, and they have not been in the final 4 since 1978. In this past tournament a lower seeded Iowa State team blew them out. I was surprised in seeing how slow they were.
As for the women's team, they have been great and have proven it on the court. As for men's basketball, take a look at the past 30 years and they have made a minimal impact.
(http://s23.postimg.org/ydti8cdpn/Screen_shot_2013_06_30_at_9_38_21_PM.png)
In all seriousness, you're dead on about ND basketball.
MIRACLE ON UNION FOREVER
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on June 30, 2013, 08:40:02 PM
(http://s23.postimg.org/ydti8cdpn/Screen_shot_2013_06_30_at_9_38_21_PM.png)
In all seriousness, you're dead on about ND basketball.
MIRACLE ON UNION FOREVER
Still waiting for the coffee to kick in this morning, I pulled up this post, saw the Google search result and didn't realize it was a screen capture at first.
I thought something on the site broke. :crazy: :snore: :coffeetime:
Quote from: valpo04 on July 01, 2013, 07:27:00 AMI pulled up this post, saw the Google search result and didn't realize it was a screen capture at first.
LOL i was kind of hoping it would to someone...but you are the last person I'd have expected! :)
too funny.
Regarding Notre Dame hoops, the late 70's and 80's were interesting times. I liked Digger Phelps as his tantics reminded me of the great Bobby Heenan. Oh, the joys of Danny Ainge....
When I first glanced at the name I thought he was referring to Monte Towe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Towe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Towe)
Monte went to Oak Hill High School in Converse, IN. He played with Tim Stoddard of East Chicago and David Thompson on the North Carolina State 1974 National Championship team. Towe is now an assistant coach at Middle Tennessee State. He was head coach from 2000 to 2006 at New Orleans and had two different stints as an assistant coach at his alma mater, North Carolina State. He has also coached in the Global Basketball Association, the CBA, two junior colleges and at N.C. Asheville. Monte has been a member of the Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame in New Castle since 2002.
very well done there.
so now, go to youtube and compare Digger's antics compared to the Brain when dissing the referees inside the squared circle. Separated at birth, perhaps?
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 01, 2013, 08:46:39 AMI liked Digger Phelps as his tantics reminded me of the great Bobby Heenan
ummmm.....
uh....
er...
(http://s2.hubimg.com/u/437877_f260.jpg)
...won't go there.
Barry Collier can't bring himself to utter the phrase "Horizon League":
QuoteWe also are expanding our footprint. We're still in New York, Philly and Washington, like we were in the Atlantic 10, and we're also back in Chicago and Milwaukee, places we were out of during our stint in the A-10.
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/signs-of-change-popping-up-around-butler/article_70c993ad-4bfe-5462-8a52-0fbd6d93c8c7.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/signs-of-change-popping-up-around-butler/article_70c993ad-4bfe-5462-8a52-0fbd6d93c8c7.html)
Oral Roberts returning to the Summit League:
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/05/oral-roberts-headed-back-to-the-summit-league-in-2014/ (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/05/oral-roberts-headed-back-to-the-summit-league-in-2014/)
Quote from: valpopal on December 05, 2013, 07:04:15 PM
Oral Roberts returning to the Summit League:
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/05/oral-roberts-headed-back-to-the-summit-league-in-2014/ (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/05/oral-roberts-headed-back-to-the-summit-league-in-2014/)
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Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Talk about eating crow! Wow! The Summit League?? Wow!! That's all that comes to mind...
obligatory
JOHNNY RIVERS- "POOR SIDE OF TOWN" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5KHd8I6zd4#)
Quote from: vu72 on December 05, 2013, 08:51:52 PM
Talk about eating crow! Wow! The Summit League?? Wow!! That's all that comes to mind...
I never understood their move to the Southland because it was a step down for almost every sport except baseball. I assume the initial move was to reduce travel, but as the northern-most team in that conference, they still have significant travel to the New Orleans area and various parts of Texas.
I haven't done the math, but with the Summit losing Oakland and adding Denver/Kansas City, it becomes a bit more palatable for ORU in terms of travel. IMO, it's the right move for them to make.
I've made this comment before, but I'll repeat it here. I had a kid play in the Summit, so I'm familiar with far-flung leagues. Only basketball and volleyball (in most leagues) play home and home. Most other sports play once, so that means you travel to only half the teams in the league. Others (like track/cross country/track) play regionally, then travel to compete in conference championships.
In terms of basketball, the Summit is teetering between the "mid-major" and "low-major" level. Adding ORU is a help. IUPUI moving to a new arena next year is a help. They'll n
Southland
Abilene Christian, Abilene, TX
Central Arkansas, Conway, AR
Houston Baptist, Houston, TX
Incarnate Word, San Antonio, TX
Lamar, Beaumont, TX
McNeese State, Lake Charles, LA
New Orleans, New Orleans, LA
Nicholls State, Thibodaux, LA
Northwestern State, Natchitoches, LA (not to be confused with Nacogdoches, TX)
Oral Roberts, Tulsa, OK
Sam Houston State, Huntsville, TX
Southeastern Louisiana, Hammond, LA
Stephen F. Austin, Nacogdoches, TX (not to be confused with.....)
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, Corpus Christi, TX
Hopefully this gives you the dots. Ignore the blue lines
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Abilene+Christian+University,+Abilene,+TX&daddr=University+of+Central+Arkansas,+Donaghey+Avenue,+Conway,+AR+to:Houston+Baptist+University,+Fondren+Road,+Houston,+TX+to:UNIVERSITY+OF+INCARNATE+WORD,+Broadway+Street,+San+Antonio,+TX+to:Lamar+University,+South+M+L+King+Junior+Parkway,+Beaumont,+TX+to:McNeese+State+University,+Ryan+Street,+Lake+Charles,+LA+to:The+University+of+New+Orleans,+Lakeshore+Drive,+New+Orleans,+LA+to:Nicholls+State+University,+East+1st+Street,+Thibodaux,+LA+to:Northwestern+State+University+of+Louisiana,+Central+Avenue,+Natchitoches,+LA+to:Oral+Roberts+University,+South+Lewis+Avenue,+Tulsa,+OK+to:Sam+Houston+State+University,+Sam+Houston+State+University,+1020+21st+St,+Huntsville,+TX+77340+to:Southeastern+Louisiana+University,+Western+Avenue,+Hammond,+LA+to:Stephen+F.+Austin+State+University,+Stephen+F.+Austin+State+University,+1936+North+St,+Nacogdoches,+TX+75962+to:Texas+A%26M+University-Corpus+Christi,+Ocean+Drive,+Corpus+Christi,+TX&hl=en&ll=31.896214,-94.899902&spn=11.628392,20.280762&sll=32.750323,-94.899902&sspn=11.51996,20.280762&geocode=FSl47wEd25MO-iFruQi8snRqOymJ-WjazpFWhjFruQi8snRqOw%3BFcJKFwIdOEB9-iGyWM0Cz_fbXCnN5Gj3dILShzGyWM0Cz_fbXA%3BFSEZxQEdRJFO-iES-lmM5GisvymjWM9RZ8JAhjES-lmM5Gisvw%3BFX6gwQEdaIYh-iFQjO7EYpg83SmZJshRnPVchjFQjO7EYpg83Q%3BFYdnygEd_Yxk-iHvizifcMz21CnD4Eh1eco-hjHvizifcMz21A%3BFYeEzAEdxZtx-iF5CcfGB5R8ISmzwtnM8IY7hjF5CcfGB5R8IQ%3BFVc7ygEdOL6h-iHtOuJLzL8j4imN4pmCL6kghjHtOuJLzL8j4g%3BFaqgxgEdnXuW-iGlG72i_9JvIylrDl8diT0hhjGlG72i_9JvIw%3BFeWB5AEdQntz-iEJkLcTXKL1LimreIjsYH0whjEJkLcTXKL1Lg%3BFR8NJgIdjtNH-iHG-CCVxjTTtil3B14PuJO2hzHG-CCVxjTTtg%3BFV-b1AEdHgJO-ilNlLyzlwhHhjHULI89JKmvLw%3BFbKT0QEd3YKb-iFgVsOCAvBlDSkd5gRbmCInhjFgVsOCAvBlDQ%3BFTaF4gEdys9b-ikdj-bj4os3hjHvPWy8UwCSYA%3BFV_cpgEdpfIy-iHLwO8STiyMXSlT-LJrOfZohjHLwO8STiyMXQ&oq=Texas+A%26M+Corpus+&mra=ls&t=m&z=6
Summit
Denver, Denver, CO
IPFW, Fort Wayne, IN
IUPUI, Indianapolis, IN
Nebraska-Omaha, Omaha, NE
North Dakota State, Fargo, ND
South Dakota, Vermillion, SD
South Dakota State, Brookings, SD
Western Illinois, Macomb, IL
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Iupui+-+Indiana+University+Purdue+University+Indianapolis,+University+Boulevard,+Indianapolis,+IN&daddr=IPFW,+Fort+Wayne,+IN+to:Western+Illinois+University,+University+Circle,+Macomb,+IL+to:University+Of+Denver,+South+University+Boulevard,+Denver,+CO+to:University+of+Nebraska+Omaha,+Dodge+Street,+Omaha,+NE+to:North+Dakota+State+University,+North+Dakota+State+University,+1301+12th+Ave+N,+Fargo,+ND+58102+to:The+University+of+South+Dakota,+East+Clark+Street,+Vermillion,+SD+to:South+Dakota+State+University+Innovation+Campus,+Research+Park+Way,+Brookings,+SD&hl=en&sll=42.871073,-95.058951&sspn=10.04594,20.280762&geocode=FTLqXgIdbg_d-iHfgNiFFQX3nCmLAB9GNVdriDHfgNiFFQX3nA%3BFex2cwIdR2Ht-iFHP5rSXOu4ZCmJOZqXyvwViDFHP5rSXOu4ZA%3BFfhoaQIdY06Y-iENi1X669G8Aymtv21XB_rghzENi1X669G8Aw%3BFclqXQIdmGi--SHZJw_HIaeYcSlhp96cFX5shzHZJw_HIaeYcQ%3BFdqRdQIdaxRH-iFPeFdYpaa-TSn7mvjAu42ThzFPeFdYpaa-TQ%3BFWKFywIdS_Q6-imNkPc4XsnIUjHi6IunmF9fFQ%3BFZfZjAIdhQk5-iGsaQzoc5WMfCkrjmlhiU-OhzGsaQzoc5WMfA%3BFXdNpAIdNII7-iFoytE12Jfj3Snp1Ny6jaKJhzFoytE12Jfj3Q&oq=South+Dakota+State&mra=ls&t=m&z=6
UMKC is currently in the WAC
Southern Utah is currently in the Big Sky
Centenary is currently Div. III
Oakland is currently in the Horizon
Here's the Summit map with ORU
https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Iupui+-+Indiana+University+Purdue+University+Indianapolis,+University+Boulevard,+Indianapolis,+IN&daddr=IPFW,+Fort+Wayne,+IN+to:Western+Illinois+University,+University+Circle,+Macomb,+IL+to:University+Of+Denver,+South+University+Boulevard,+Denver,+CO+to:University+of+Nebraska+Omaha,+Dodge+Street,+Omaha,+NE+to:North+Dakota+State+University,+North+Dakota+State+University,+1301+12th+Ave+N,+Fargo,+ND+58102+to:The+University+of+South+Dakota,+East+Clark+Street,+Vermillion,+SD+to:South+Dakota+State+University+Innovation+Campus,+Research+Park+Way,+Brookings,+SD+to:Oral+Roberts+University,+South+Lewis+Avenue,+Tulsa,+OK&hl=en&sll=42.871073,-95.058951&sspn=10.04594,20.280762&geocode=FTLqXgIdbg_d-iHfgNiFFQX3nCmLAB9GNVdriDHfgNiFFQX3nA%3BFex2cwIdR2Ht-iFHP5rSXOu4ZCmJOZqXyvwViDFHP5rSXOu4ZA%3BFfhoaQIdY06Y-iENi1X669G8Aymtv21XB_rghzENi1X669G8Aw%3BFclqXQIdmGi--SHZJw_HIaeYcSlhp96cFX5shzHZJw_HIaeYcQ%3BFdqRdQIdaxRH-iFPeFdYpaa-TSn7mvjAu42ThzFPeFdYpaa-TQ%3BFWKFywIdS_Q6-imNkPc4XsnIUjHi6IunmF9fFQ%3BFZfZjAIdhQk5-iGsaQzoc5WMfCkrjmlhiU-OhzGsaQzoc5WMfA%3BFXdNpAIdNII7-iFoytE12Jfj3Snp1Ny6jaKJhzFoytE12Jfj3Q%3BFR8NJgIdjtNH-iHG-CCVxjTTtil3B14PuJO2hzHG-CCVxjTTtg&oq=Oral+Roberts&mra=ls&t=m&z=5
It isn't all that bad to do Fargo with Brookings and Vermillion with Omaha. Denver-Tulsa-Macomb?
I always thought the real reason they left was because of baseball, which is what makes this move so confusing to me.
The traveling seems worse. I mean they have to travel to Fargo. If I were an ORU student athlete, I'd much rather have my longest trip be to New Orleans. The baseball team is going to be really angry.
I feel like they weren't happy with the addition of New Orleans, Incarnate Word, and Abilene Christian and that the conference doesn't seem to care about basketball as much as they do football.... I mean their conference champion last year plays in this gem: http://image1.stadiumjourney.com/images/stadiums/600_Warming_Up_Inside_Prather_Coliseum.jpg (http://image1.stadiumjourney.com/images/stadiums/600_Warming_Up_Inside_Prather_Coliseum.jpg)
Still, I don't really get it.
Quote from: a3uge on December 06, 2013, 08:50:52 AMThe traveling seems worse. I mean they have to travel to Fargo. If I were an ORU student athlete, I'd much rather have my longest trip be to New Orleans. The baseball team is going to be really angry. I feel like they weren't happy with the addition of New Orleans, Incarnate Word, and Abilene Christian and that the conference doesn't seem to care about basketball as much as they do football.... I mean their conference champion last year plays in this gem: http://image1.stadiumjourney.com/images/stadiums/600_Warming_Up_Inside_Prather_Coliseum.jpg (http://image1.stadiumjourney.com/images/stadiums/600_Warming_Up_Inside_Prather_Coliseum.jpg) Still, I don't really get it.
Maybe ORU felt that they could dominate the Southland in all the other sports except baseball and that simply hasn't happened. With baseball being competitive and not winning as many conference championships as they wanted ORU has decided to go back to a conference where they have a better chance of winning more conference championships. Sometimes hanging a bunch a banners is what turns recruits heads. Dominating in baseball and going to the NCAA baseball tournament every year wasn't all bad.
The city of Tulsa must have lost their shirts when they didn't have the Mid-Con/Summit Basketball Championships to help their economy in late February/early March? Kind of a dumb move on their part, but all of this conference jumping leaves me confused as to who went where and why they moved in the first place. Of all the Mid-Con/Summit moves, the only ones that made any sense were Valpo and Oakland to the HL, SUU to the Big Sky, Centenary to D-III and Chicago St. OUT to Independent. The CSU move to the WAC is real dumb, when they have zip for athletic budget all around.
Quote from: valporun on December 06, 2013, 03:03:40 PMOf all the Mid-Con/Summit moves, the only ones that made any sense were Valpo and Oakland to the HL, SUU to the Big Sky, Centenary to D-III and Chicago St. OUT to Independent. The CSU move to the WAC is real dumb, when they have zip for athletic budget all around.
dItto. well done.
Quote from: valporun on December 06, 2013, 03:03:40 PM
The city of Tulsa must have lost their shirts when they didn't have the Mid-Con/Summit Basketball Championships to help their economy in late February/early March? Kind of a dumb move on their part, but all of this conference jumping leaves me confused as to who went where and why they moved in the first place. Of all the Mid-Con/Summit moves, the only ones that made any sense were Valpo and Oakland to the HL, SUU to the Big Sky, Centenary to D-III and Chicago St. OUT to Independent. The CSU move to the WAC is real dumb, when they have zip for athletic budget all around.
Two words: "Automatic" and "Bid."
In this context, Chicago State's move was no more as dumb than having a school located in NWI play conference games in Utah, Louisiana, Alabama and Connecticut.
Quote from: valporun on December 06, 2013, 03:03:40 PM
Of all the Mid-Con/Summit moves, the only ones that made any sense were Valpo and Oakland to the HL, SUU to the Big Sky, Centenary to D-III and Chicago St. OUT to Independent. The CSU move to the WAC is real dumb, when they have zip for athletic budget all around.
Have you even followed the Mid-Con? Almost every move ever made was the correct one. Do you even realize that all the HL teams except Detroit were in the Mid-Con. How about Missouri State and Northern Iowa to the MVC, Buffalo, Akron and Northern Ill to the MAC. To me only Chicago State allowing itself to be in essence booted and UMKC are head scratchers. I even think ORU's move made sense.
Actually CSU to the WAC was smart as they had to be in a conference.
Finally, kudos to the Summit for bringing back ORU. A great move for them.
Quote from: IndyValpo on December 07, 2013, 10:32:51 AM
Quote from: valporun on December 06, 2013, 03:03:40 PM
Of all the Mid-Con/Summit moves, the only ones that made any sense were Valpo and Oakland to the HL, SUU to the Big Sky, Centenary to D-III and Chicago St. OUT to Independent. The CSU move to the WAC is real dumb, when they have zip for athletic budget all around.
Have you even followed the Mid-Con? Almost every move ever made was the correct one. Do you even realize that all the HL teams except Detroit were in the Mid-Con. How about Missouri State and Northern Iowa to the MVC, Buffalo, Akron and Northern Ill to the MAC. To me only Chicago State allowing itself to be in essence booted and UMKC are head scratchers. I even think ORU's move made sense.
Actually CSU to the WAC was smart as they had to be in a conference.
Finally, kudos to the Summit for bringing back ORU. A great move for them.
Will you be e-mailing the ORU student/athletes when they are traveling to Fargo instead of New Orleans in January?
Quote from: bbtds on December 07, 2013, 12:17:07 PM
Will you be e-mailing the ORU student/athletes when they are traveling to Fargo instead of New Orleans in January?
To clarify, it is a good move by the Summit. ORU's decision to reenter would probably fall into the head scratcher category.
The Southland has gotten even more watered down with their recent additions. Having 14 teams of minimal value outside of football/baseball, probably led to this decision. That, and having a LITTLE bit closer geography vs. what the Summit used to have, has made it a little more palatable.
Currently the Southland conference ranks higher than the summit in basketball rpi ranking.
I know Mike Carter (ORU AD) did not feel comfortable sending kids to the great northwest on buses in Nov-March. Okies freak out about snow and ice. We got 3 inches and the local high schools cancelled Friday and Monday classes. ORU administration and fans didn't like the conference tournament was moved to Sioux Falls.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 08, 2013, 07:50:37 PM
Currently the Southland conference ranks higher than the summit in basketball rpi ranking.
I know Mike Carter (ORU AD) did not feel comfortable sending kids to the great northwest on buses in Nov-March. Okies freak out about snow and ice. We got 3 inches and the local high schools cancelled Friday and Monday classes. ORU administration and fans didn't like the conference tournament was moved to Sioux Falls.
Was that in the days when Richard Roberts was president? Did RR make the decision to leave the Summit and then get booted as president of ORU? Maybe the new administration felt the Summit wasn't quite as bad as extravagant RR made it out to be. There comes a time when God doesn't deliver all the miracles just because you personally want them.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 08, 2013, 07:50:37 PM
Currently the Southland conference ranks higher than the summit in basketball rpi ranking.
I know Mike Carter (ORU AD) did not feel comfortable sending kids to the great northwest on buses in Nov-March. Okies freak out about snow and ice. We got 3 inches and the local high schools cancelled Friday and Monday classes. ORU administration and fans didn't like the conference tournament was moved to Sioux Falls.
It doesn't matter what it is currently ranked. The Southland is a crap basketball conference traditionally, so it will even out eventually. They occassionally get one decent team that can compete, but the conference on the whole is terrible in basketball...
agreed, the southland has always been worse of a bball conference. The original move from Summit to the Southland was Mike Carter's and only needed the approval from the RR the president. RR could care less and had no idea what was going on.
The question is, does the university have to pay exit fees on any of their moves? They were 80 million dollars in debt (ultimately that costs RR his job). The Greens, (owner of Hobby Lobby) bailed the university out. Since then the new president had a goal to increase students enrollment. He was responsible for building a really cool student union. But that president has since stepped down.
Does anyone know if their are exit fees ORU will have to pay?
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 10, 2013, 09:38:28 AM
agreed, the southland has always been worse of a bball conference. The original move from Summit to the Southland was Mike Carter's and only needed the approval from the RR the president. RR could care less and had no idea what was going on.
The question is, does the university have to pay exit fees on any of their moves? They were 80 million dollars in debt (ultimately that costs RR his job). The Greens, (owner of Hobby Lobby) bailed the university out. Since then the new president had a goal to increase students enrollment. He was responsible for building a really cool student union. But that president has since stepped down.
Does anyone know if their are exit fees ORU will have to pay?
I'm guessing there's some forgiveness of the old Summit League debt so it'll even out a bit...
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Internet rumors are swirling about a potential expansion of the Sun Belt, which includes Missouri State, JMU and/or Liberty in this discussion.
http://csnbbs.com/thread-685723.html (http://csnbbs.com/thread-685723.html)
Now this would be interesting if this happens--if MSU moves to the Sun Belt, I wonder whether the MVC would move back to 10 or decide to protect itself further and instead move to 12. I doubt they would stay at 9. 10 might not be good enough this time around either if two schools leave in three years.
Will any potential Sun Belt expansion affect the MAC? If the MAC expands, you've got to figure that the OVC potentially could be affected (Eastern Kentucky), which again could affect the HL in some way.
Again, these are all just internet rumors, but if MSU does move, things might get a little interesting again for the HL. Should be interesting to see what happens.
Even with the UMASS departure, the MAC likely not expanding anytime soon:
http://www.football.com/en-us/where-will-umass-play-after-2015/ (http://www.football.com/en-us/where-will-umass-play-after-2015/)
Looks like all eyes will be on the Sun Belt for now. Who will be team #12?
PantherU is probably already predicting that Milwaukee is on its way to the MVC, with a possible Missouri State departure :lol:
I believe rock solid sources form within our own university are telling him that Bryce is a definite to take over the head coaching job for the Knicks under Phil Jackson.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/lemmetweet/tweet/imgs/DcVtskeFwIXLvEzqUxWZJITe.jpg20140414-2-1kb6z82?1397494581)
A Valpo tie-in to some new news via Gene Bartow.
Looks like UAB is going to drop football. Nothing is set in stone yet but media reports are swirling:
http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/11/30/alabama-birmingham-shuts-down-football-program-fires-athletic-director (http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/11/30/alabama-birmingham-shuts-down-football-program-fires-athletic-director)
This would potentially mean that UAB would have to leave CUSA and find a new conference, and in turn it would also potentially mean that we could have some more lower level conference shuffling to some degree.
Hey LeCrone, Belmont could be an excellent travel partner with UAB. Just saying.
UAB as a basketball school will certainly land somewhere if their football program is shut down. MVC? A-10? Horizon?
bbtds and I were discussing this a while ago before this was leaked. can't remember the thread...
but I would think UAB would find themselves in the OVC or A-Sun first...except I don't think they would leave CUSA. But they may.
Really too bad.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 01, 2014, 02:47:48 PMbbtds and I were discussing this a while ago before this was leaked. can't remember the thread...
That's kind of funny. I don't remember which thread either. I thought maybe I had dreamed it. :)
Not surprised about UAB. Flights from Barrow, Alaska must be expensive.
Very sad to see this, again proving that funding football at Rolled Toilet Paper University is all that matters in that state.
UAB football was officially closed down this week, along with two other sports. A very sad week for the UAB sporting community indeed. I wonder if CUSA will let them stay as a non-football member. If not, one would think they would have to look to a conference that sponsors Men's Soccer first since it looks like soccer will now be the Fall marquee sport. Should be interesting to see if any conference dominoes move as a result of this decision.
I would think that UAB would be out of CUSA after the 2015-16 school year because of the number of contracts that were signed for games for next season. If it weren't so much of a geographical and logistical nightmare, I would say the HL would be wise to extend an offer to UAB, since we don't have football as a conference sport.
I just happened to stumble on this from another sports board:
Wichita State to the American?
http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article121087273.html
Interesting that there is a statement in there about the MVC decline as a WSU reason for departing.
My :twocents:
Valpo will not really fit into any other conference other than a mid-major conference with at least a 50+% membership of private colleges (Big East Light).
Crazy thought: a BB-only conferece that meets that criterion. I'll suggest Detriot, Belmont for starters.
FYI: we travel the country for football, why not MBB and WBB?
Problem: where do the other sports fit?
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 15, 2016, 09:23:56 PMFYI: we travel the country for football, why not MBB and WBB
A lot more travel for BB than football. The reason given that Valpo got out of the Mid-Con was the classroom time lost due to the travel in the Mid-Con. I don't know if the decision makers would have changed their minds on this but I do think the board and administrators seem to still fall on the side of saved classroom time. Academics weighs much more heavily.
Quote from: bbtds on December 16, 2016, 10:25:53 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 15, 2016, 09:23:56 PMFYI: we travel the country for football, why not MBB and WBB
A lot more travel for BB than football. The reason given that Valpo got out of the Mid-Con was the classroom time lost due to the travel in the Mid-Con. I don't know if the decision makers would have changed their minds on this but I do think the board and administrators seem to still fall on the side of saved classroom time. Academics weighs much more heavily.
You may be right and probably are. I do wonder though about the numbers. For example, this year's basketball team flew to Oregon, Vegas, Kentucky and Missouri. The rest of the season is basically at home or on buses. How many travel with the team? May 25 or so? The football team traveled to Connecticut, Florida and California. With how many? Probably around 100 plus a load of equipment. Could the costs be similar or even greater for football??
According to Kenpom the HL rankings the last 4 years
12, 14, 16, 20(2017)
Quote from: vu72 on December 16, 2016, 11:58:25 AMThe rest of the season is basically at home or on buses.
Buses are less expensive then airplane travel but still cost money. If BB only traveled to the away football cities twice then maybe about the same but the away conference games cost money too.
I guess that the moratorium on schools joining D-1 is over, with Cal Baptist joining the WAC. It seems like all of the Baptist schools are doing this now, with Houston Baptist joining recently, and Dallas Baptist looking to do so in all sports (currently D-1 in baseball only).
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/1/13/14268062/sources-cal-baptist-to-join-western-athletic-conference
UND to join Summit and MVFC:
http://www.wday.com/sports/4204986-sources-und-set-leave-big-sky-and-join-summit-missouri-valley-conferences
With UND, the Summit will have a nice round number of 10 members. The MVFC will have 11 members.
I wonder if UMKC regrets moving to the WAC.
I'm sure that makes IPFW happy...now one more school to play on their several visits per year to the Dakotas. I'll bet they love facing that added travel expense, especially when they barely get 1,000 fans to thier games.
I figured that would eventually happen, with the other 3 Dakota schools in the same setup. The Big Sky had too many members, as well.
A mapping of the Summit League
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/University+of+North+Dakota/North+Dakota+State+University/South+Dakota+State+University/University+of+South+Dakota,+Vermillion,+SD/University+of+Nebraska+at+Omaha+Baxter+Arena/University+of+Denver+-+University+College/Oral+Roberts+University/Western+Illinois+University,+Macomb,+IL/IUPUI+-+Administration+Building/IPFW,+E+Coliseum+Blvd,+Fort+Wayne,+IN/@41.6323722,-104.0547445,5z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m62!4m61!1m5!1m1!1s0x52c6816a6ae4263b:0xcc0ae5e774c834be!2m2!1d-97.0768014!2d47.922891!1m5!1m1!1s0x52c8c95e38f7908d:0x155f5f98a78be8e2!2m2!1d-96.8013927!2d46.8921783!1m5!1m1!1s0x8789a2fadf07d6e9:0xa7e39ad698634fab!2m2!1d-96.7817535!2d44.3176308!1m5!1m1!1s0x878e4f8961698e2b:0x7c8c9573e80c69ac!2m2!1d-96.925271!2d42.784118!1m5!1m1!1s0x87938c4fba15b8cd:0x404503234fa96f80!2m2!1d-96.0139754!2d41.2364323!1m5!1m1!1s0x876c7e159cdea761:0x3d73ccb05ab84e1f!2m2!1d-104.9584708!2d39.6762366!1m5!1m1!1s0x87b693b80f5e0777:0xb6d334c69520f8c6!2m2!1d-95.955471!2d36.048042!1m5!1m1!1s0x87e0fa07576dbfad:0x80dcefb36be3a1f6!2m2!1d-90.684401!2d40.476174!1m5!1m1!1s0x886b5735461f008b:0xa9e838c4b585af15!2m2!1d-86.176276!2d39.77392!1m5!1m1!1s0x8815fcca979a3989:0x64b8eb5cd29a3f47!2m2!1d-85.1081012!2d41.1183128!3e0
It does seem to make the move to the Valley or A-10 not unusual in today's college conference affiliation world. Can't imagine more traveling then in the old Mid-Con world going to Southern Utah, Centenary and Central Connecticut!!
Missouri Valley Conference mapping
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/University+of+Northern+Iowa/Drake+University/Wichita+State+University/Missouri+State+University/Bradley+University/Illinois+State+University/Southern+Illinois+University/University+of+Evansville+(UE)/Indiana+State+University/Loyola+University,+West+Sheridan+Road,+Chicago,+IL/@39.7625865,-96.8090487,6z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m62!4m61!1m5!1m1!1s0x87e5531ad005042d:0x75e1c3b96c004522!2m2!1d-92.4630394!2d42.5137704!1m5!1m1!1s0x87ee9949d63f6997:0x3b6a480f6e2df40!2m2!1d-93.6580638!2d41.6012863!1m5!1m1!1s0x87bae2e99bd78049:0x1e6f7029f6ab64fb!2m2!1d-97.2861564!2d37.7214716!1m5!1m1!1s0x87cf631bf3177e1b:0x4328fcf1d2c8acec!2m2!1d-93.2808408!2d37.2009403!1m5!1m1!1s0x880a5947add91f81:0xf6351a199233588f!2m2!1d-89.6160181!2d40.6981432!1m5!1m1!1s0x880b71719478bc73:0x10e5c15e5fb62c34!2m2!1d-88.9946702!2d40.5122833!1m5!1m1!1s0x8877123ce908fc03:0x9698c489b70030d3!2m2!1d-89.2185528!2d37.7131972!1m5!1m1!1s0x886e2aa240d1328f:0x36ed705f7e9003ec!2m2!1d-87.5316879!2d37.9715703!1m5!1m1!1s0x886d653a0d36ac43:0xf30442f9c7f79f78!2m2!1d-87.4103914!2d39.4705285!1m5!1m1!1s0x880fd1a09722a82b:0xbae2050b72dffcd7!2m2!1d-87.6577702!2d41.9986698!3e0
With all of our attention directed to the MVC situation, has anyone heard any scuttle on the HL if we leave/or does anyone even care?
Quote from: valpo64 on May 08, 2017, 11:57:19 AM
With all of our attention directed to the MVC situation, has anyone heard any scuttle on the HL if we leave/or does anyone even care?
Don't care much about Wright State, Green Bay, Cleveland State, Milwaukee and UIC. They made their bed in 1993 and now they must lie in it. Detroit Mercy should look for a better situation in a conference with a more balanced private/public split. I'm not sure there is a conference that fits them well. UDM needs to work on finances and keeping their house in order such as area code graffiti and people like the former coaches, ADs and their sons in the NBA. I wish Northern KY the best. They seem poised for the most success but they fit better with the 5 dubious conference jumpers. Oh. Youngstown State was in the conference. They should really start to pay attention to sports other than football.
Add UNO, Denver, and/or NM State and Wright State is as good as gone.
WSU is Broke (one time $120 mill reserve down to zero and about to fire 100+ staff/faculty) and my guess is the extra travel costs could result in WSU having the best athletic facilities in DII.
Read more: http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1015/team-hl-backfill?page=4#ixzz4ggdwUOqp
Here's the WSU article...
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/wright-state-could-start-laying-off-employees-around-may/10kXWpTCVeNLMsU3nhsxfK/
and the deeper dive:
http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/wsu-budgets-portrayed-finances-strong-while-school-lost-millions/QsiYcx4ZrMPXsUY227rHCK/
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2017, 09:37:40 AM
WSU is Broke (one time $120 mill reserve down to zero and about to fire 100+ staff/faculty) and my guess is the extra travel costs could result in WSU having the best athletic facilities in DII.
Read more: http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1015/team-hl-backfill?page=4#ixzz4ggdwUOqp
Quote from: talksalot on May 11, 2017, 10:32:13 AM
Here's the WSU article...
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/wright-state-could-start-laying-off-employees-around-may/10kXWpTCVeNLMsU3nhsxfK/
and the deeper dive:
http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/wsu-budgets-portrayed-finances-strong-while-school-lost-millions/QsiYcx4ZrMPXsUY227rHCK/
I wonder how transparent WSU was during their recent Presidential search. Cheryl has quite the challenge ahead!
If I was Detroit Mercy I would try for the MAAC.
So because there is something really wrong in Dayton you don't want to be Wright State.
There is definitely a lesson to be learned about wrong and Wright in Ohio's educational future.
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 11, 2017, 01:19:54 PM
If I was Detroit Mercy I would try for the MAAC.
What's funny about this is there's Iona fans on Twitter talking up moving to the Horizon League.
Maybe the grass isn't greener?
Elimination of the golf team??? ??? That's like saying Holiday Inn is going to not supply facial soap to its guests as a means of balancing the budget. :crazy:
Has there been any article or report on the HL site regarding us leaving the HL?
Only this on the HL Twitter site. The website doesn't seem to have a mention.
[tweet]867758260736200710[/tweet]
With us being the top basketball program in the HL, one would think us leaving would generate at least a mention on their web site. I guess that one should remember who is running the League. Glad our time is over with the HL. Lacrone's ineptness continues to amaze me. With him at the helm, I sure cannot see a bright future for the HL.
64, would you publicize your fouth failure in a row (failure to retain Butler, Loyola and Valpo while moving the HL tournament to Detroit and then sending less than the HL best to the dance) on your website?
Not sure I would characterize the graduation of teams to better leagues as failures per se, LeCrone's biggest failures occurred prior to and in the immediate aftermath of Butler leaving. His inability to lure more quality programs beyond simply adding Oakland started the league's slide. Immediately after Butler broke out he should have pitched expansion to the likes of Belmont Murray State the Dakotas Oakland or even Morehead State who was also strong back then and could have capitalized on that momentum by joining a better league Had he done this the Horizon League may have ended up better than the MVC. Had he been proactive he may not have stopped Butler's exit but he very well could have prevented Loyola's and Valpo's and sent the MVC scrambling once Creighton and Wichita State bolted.
LeCrone's second great failure was harming Valpo, his bellwether program, with the neutral site tournament; and, more egregious than that, forcing them to play two conference games games THAT DIDN'T COUNT TOWARD VALPO'S RPI. This, more than anything, cost the Crusaders that at-large berth.Yes, Northern Kentucky has proven to be a good addition to the league as has Oakland but the timing of the Northern Kentucky addition could not have been worse for Valpo, and indeed the league's profile as a whole.
It's not that he doesn't know a quality program when he sees one or what to look for when adding a program. What's always been the issue with LeCrone, and what's likely to be the death of the Horizon League as a quality mid major league is one word --timing. He mistimed his move to capitalize on Butler's success, he mistimed his desire to get aggressive and serious about expansion and "being like the big boys" and he's even mistimed the aftermath of Valpo's departure by showing us all that, despite all his bluff bluster and big talk, he had no plan and probably never did. Now, he's stuck with a declining league and the lifelong lament of what could have been. He may yet make his great power move, the league may even recover somewhat, but I bet it'll still be a league from which teams will run if the MVC ever comes calling again it will never be what it could have been; nor will it be, in all likelihood, as good as it once was, and the greatest tragedy of that statement is that it didn't have to be this way.
Complacency kills mid major leagues, especially in this 'eat or be eaten' climate that the NCAA has thrust us into, and the fact is that either LeCrone, the HL university presidents, or both became complacent following Butler's success, and did not plan for when the raging Ragnarok-like tempest of realignment came to their doorstep.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 08, 2017, 02:08:55 AM
Complacency kills mid major leagues, especially in this 'eat or be eaten' climate that the NCAA has thrust us into, and the fact is that either LeCrone, the HL university presidents, or both became complacent following Butler's success, and did not plan for when the raging Ragnarok-like tempest of realignment came to their doorstep.
For the sake of argument, doesn't "replacing" Wichita State with Valpo and not being proactive in the push for 12 also reek of status-quo maintaining complacency on the part of the MVC?
Belmont clearly had no interest in joining Murray State and neither Milwaukee nor Omaha had the looks of a competent MVC member. But to say a strong 3rd member didn't exist at all is hard for me to believe.
As much as I believe in the Valpo program, this move has the potential to drive Missouri State to C-USA the same way poor decisions in Indianapolis drove us to the Valley.
We (Valpo) always seem to be a year or two behind the realignment momentum of the day. It's burned us before, and I fear it may again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 08, 2017, 02:08:55 AM
Not sure I would characterize the graduation of teams to better leagues as failures per se, LeCrone's biggest failures occurred prior to and in the immediate aftermath of Butler leaving. His inability to lure more quality programs beyond simply adding Oakland started the league's slide. Immediately after Butler broke out he should have pitched expansion to the likes of Belmont Murray State the Dakotas Oakland or even Morehead State who was also strong back then and could have capitalized on that momentum by joining a better league Had he done this the Horizon League may have ended up better than the MVC. Had he been proactive he may not have stopped Butler's exit but he very well could have prevented Loyola's and Valpo's and sent the MVC scrambling once Creighton and Wichita State bolted.
LeCrone's second great failure was harming Valpo, his bellwether program, with the neutral site tournament; and, more egregious than that, forcing them to play two conference games games THAT DIDN'T COUNT TOWARD VALPO'S RPI. This, more than anything, cost the Crusaders that at-large berth.Yes, Northern Kentucky has proven to be a good addition to the league as has Oakland but the timing of the Northern Kentucky addition could not have been worse for Valpo, and indeed the league's profile as a whole.
It's not that he doesn't know a quality program when he sees one or what to look for when adding a program. What's always been the issue with LeCrone, and what's likely to be the death of the Horizon League as a quality mid major league is one word --timing. He mistimed his move to capitalize on Butler's success, he mistimed his desire to get aggressive and serious about expansion and "being like the big boys" and he's even mistimed the aftermath of Valpo's departure by showing us all that, despite all his bluff bluster and big talk, he had no plan and probably never did. Now, he's stuck with a declining league and the lifelong lament of what could have been. He may yet make his great power move, the league may even recover somewhat, but I bet it'll still be a league from which teams will run if the MVC ever comes calling again it will never be what it could have been; nor will it be, in all likelihood, as good as it once was, and the greatest tragedy of that statement is that it didn't have to be this way.
Complacency kills mid major leagues, especially in this 'eat or be eaten' climate that the NCAA has thrust us into, and the fact is that either LeCrone, the HL university presidents, or both became complacent following Butler's success, and did not plan for when the raging Ragnarok-like tempest of realignment came to their doorstep.
Belmont wasn't willing to join the MVC, let alone the Horizon. And Murray State has always been eyeing the MVC, and didn't want to jump to the Horizon League. I don't think it's fair to blame LeCrone for not adding schools that didn't want to join the league, just as much as Elgin shouldn't be blamed for not being able to add Belmont.
LeCrone actually played the Butler transition quite well. He never replaced Butler (which was impossible, obviously), but he replaced Loyola with a significantly better program. He did royally screw up the NKU addition though. Adding a program that wasn't D1 tournament eligible yet was inexcusable. NKU wasn't going anywhere in that year.
Quote from: a3uge on June 08, 2017, 08:34:00 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 08, 2017, 02:08:55 AM
Not sure I would characterize the graduation of teams to better leagues as failures per se, LeCrone's biggest failures occurred prior to and in the immediate aftermath of Butler leaving. His inability to lure more quality programs beyond simply adding Oakland started the league's slide. Immediately after Butler broke out he should have pitched expansion to the likes of Belmont Murray State the Dakotas Oakland or even Morehead State who was also strong back then and could have capitalized on that momentum by joining a better league Had he done this the Horizon League may have ended up better than the MVC. Had he been proactive he may not have stopped Butler's exit but he very well could have prevented Loyola's and Valpo's and sent the MVC scrambling once Creighton and Wichita State bolted.
LeCrone's second great failure was harming Valpo, his bellwether program, with the neutral site tournament; and, more egregious than that, forcing them to play two conference games games THAT DIDN'T COUNT TOWARD VALPO'S RPI. This, more than anything, cost the Crusaders that at-large berth.Yes, Northern Kentucky has proven to be a good addition to the league as has Oakland but the timing of the Northern Kentucky addition could not have been worse for Valpo, and indeed the league's profile as a whole.
It's not that he doesn't know a quality program when he sees one or what to look for when adding a program. What's always been the issue with LeCrone, and what's likely to be the death of the Horizon League as a quality mid major league is one word --timing. He mistimed his move to capitalize on Butler's success, he mistimed his desire to get aggressive and serious about expansion and "being like the big boys" and he's even mistimed the aftermath of Valpo's departure by showing us all that, despite all his bluff bluster and big talk, he had no plan and probably never did. Now, he's stuck with a declining league and the lifelong lament of what could have been. He may yet make his great power move, the league may even recover somewhat, but I bet it'll still be a league from which teams will run if the MVC ever comes calling again it will never be what it could have been; nor will it be, in all likelihood, as good as it once was, and the greatest tragedy of that statement is that it didn't have to be this way.
Complacency kills mid major leagues, especially in this 'eat or be eaten' climate that the NCAA has thrust us into, and the fact is that either LeCrone, the HL university presidents, or both became complacent following Butler's success, and did not plan for when the raging Ragnarok-like tempest of realignment came to their doorstep.
Belmont wasn't willing to join the MVC, let alone the Horizon. And Murray State has always been eyeing the MVC, and didn't want to jump to the Horizon League. I don't think it's fair to blame LeCrone for not adding schools that didn't want to join the league, just as much as Elgin shouldn't be blamed for not being able to add Belmont.
LeCrone actually played the Butler transition quite well. He never replaced Butler (which was impossible, obviously), but he replaced Loyola with a significantly better program. He did royally screw up the NKU addition though. Adding a program that wasn't D1 tournament eligible yet was inexcusable. NKU wasn't going anywhere in that year.
One of the main arguments I have heard against a conference change for Belmont (and it could just be fan speculation I have no sources) is that none of the leagues that have called so far offer a sufficiently significant increase in national profile to justify the increased travel costs, particularly in the non-revenue sports This is to my mind an absurd assertion especially as it pertains to the MVC, but this is their argument (I do believe that the inclusion of Murray State and the switch to divisions may well help sell them on the MVC especially with money drying up and their current TV deal expiring after the upcoming year)
If it's a profile boost they were after then the time to strike and line up Belmont (and others) was when the profile of the Horizon League was at its strongest following Butler's runs through the tournament Remember those runs occurred BEFORE Belmont left the ASUN for the OVC so they WERE in fact contemplating a conference change. With Belmont situated in Nashville and most of the Horizon League schools in urban areas travel costs could have been mitigated to the point of feasibility. So yes it actually can be argued that LeCrone missed an opportunity
Quote from: Dave_2010 on June 08, 2017, 06:37:41 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 08, 2017, 02:08:55 AM
Complacency kills mid major leagues, especially in this 'eat or be eaten' climate that the NCAA has thrust us into, and the fact is that either LeCrone, the HL university presidents, or both became complacent following Butler's success, and did not plan for when the raging Ragnarok-like tempest of realignment came to their doorstep.
For the sake of argument, doesn't "replacing" Wichita State with Valpo and not being proactive in the push for 12 also reek of status-quo maintaining complacency on the part of the MVC?
Belmont clearly had no interest in joining Murray State and neither Milwaukee nor Omaha had the looks of a competent MVC member. But to say a strong 3rd member didn't exist at all is hard for me to believe.
As much as I believe in the Valpo program, this move has the potential to drive Missouri State to C-USA the same way poor decisions in Indianapolis drove us to the Valley.
We (Valpo) always seem to be a year or two behind the realignment momentum of the day. It's burned us before, and I fear it may again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Strong potential expansion adds did exist but they were well outside the MVC footprint, and with the conference as strongly tied to the state of Illinois and the budgetary realities that entails as the MVC is it was not financially workable to bring them in (This worked to our benefit I must add as we very possibly would have lost out in a contest with Grand Canyon New Mexico State etc. The unwillingness to take Murray State along with Valpo, thereby adding two quality games to everyone's schedule still baffles me.) However, to answer your initial question, yes, it does reek of status quo adherence; but it sounds as though an expansion plan is in place. Unlike LeCrone, I fully trust Elgin to follow through on this plan and bring quality programs into the Valley.
As for your point on Missouri State (and presumably Illinois State and Northern Iowa as well), any move out of the Valley on their part would be to an FBS conference. This means that the move would be purely football-driven and would be made irrespective of whatever expansion decisions Elgin makes. As basketball-first schools I find it very difficult to imagine such a move for any of these schools because CUSA is a terrible basketball conference and the MAC would cripple their programs due to travel costs. Also, while the midweek MAC games have been good for the national exposure of the conference it is hurting local fan support because nobody wants to rush to a game after work and then sit in the cold to watch the game for three hours when they have to work the next morning. The grass isn't always greener on the FBS side and these programs know this.
Even if they did leave, realignment may still put us in a conference of similar or greater strength. Maybe the A10 picks us up or the best of the remaining MVC members, the Summit, the Horizon, and perhaps the OVC all combine to form a new conference that doesn't exist yet.The thing is, even without those three programs, I still think the Valley might be the best conference in our region. It is imperative that Valpo hits the ground running in the Valley so that the program can protect itself from future realignment (or benefit from it) by being as attractive as possible to other conferences.
Although I am as staunch an advocate of facility upgrades as you're going to find, I'm not sure I agree with your last statement about Valpo being behind realignment trends. While it may have just been cover to get Valpo to commit to facility upgrades, it's also very possible that Elgin was telling the truth when he mentioned market size as a major factor. We know firsthand from our experience with LeCrone how important a factor market size can be. The fact remains, if market truly mattered, back in 2013, and there is no good reason to believe otherwise since Valpo made far and away the most basketball sense for the conference in both go-rounds, we never really had a shot at getting in over Loyola when Creighton left anyway . I'm just glad we're in now.
Didn't know where else to put this, so I'll put it here: Belmont's coach on the possibility of realignment affecting his school:
https://soundcloud.com/user-232619420/belmonts-rick-byrd-on-rumors-of-joining-missouri-valley-conference
Summary:
Likes Belmont's lot in the OVC
Doesn't sound like the will is there financially to meet what the MVC would demand .
Says the MVC is "a good league " but believes that it's a one-bid league as evidenced by Illinois State getting snubbed this past year
That last point irks me. The MVC won't be a one-bid league with Belmont and Murray State added along with internal improvement from the current MVC members . I just don't understand why folks don't see that. An improved and expanded MVC can get 2-3 bids.
Happens when you coach at a school for as long as Rick Byrd has, and being the top dog boosts your ego with a perennial birth to the NCAA from your one-bid league.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 09, 2017, 11:49:53 PMLikes Belmont's lot in the OVC
Doesn't sound like the will is there financially to meet what the MVC would demand .
Says the MVC is "a good league " but believes that it's a one-bid league as evidenced by Illinois State getting snubbed this past year
That last point irks me. The MVC won't be a one-bid league with Belmont and Murray State added along with internal improvement from the current MVC members . I just don't understand why folks don't see that. An improved and expanded MVC can get 2-3 bids.
I am a little surprised by this complacency. As valporun implied, this might be the result of a coach near the end of his run. Or perhaps this is the administrations line like it was for a time when Valpo was in the MidCon.
Quote from: FWalum on July 12, 2017, 05:38:37 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 09, 2017, 11:49:53 PMLikes Belmont's lot in the OVC
Doesn't sound like the will is there financially to meet what the MVC would demand .
Says the MVC is "a good league " but believes that it's a one-bid league as evidenced by Illinois State getting snubbed this past year
That last point irks me. The MVC won't be a one-bid league with Belmont and Murray State added along with internal improvement from the current MVC members . I just don't understand why folks don't see that. An improved and expanded MVC can get 2-3 bids.
I am a little surprised by this complacency. As valporun implied, this might be the result of a coach near the end of his run. Or perhaps this is the administrations line like it was for a time when Valpo was in the MidCon.
Another indication of same: Belmont 2016 average attendance = 2536 in a what Paul Oren called a beautiful facility. From the Belmont site:
"The Curb Event Center arena has 5,000 permanent seats in an oval configuration and a permanent maple hardwood floor. It has three full-size basketball courts and eight suites." Opened Fall 2003.
In contrast: Valpol 2016 average attendance = 3572 in a facility that is all retractable bleachers, with a small amount having plastic chair backs. Same listed seating (5000), but Valpo has an additional 400 in standing room. Opened Fall of 19 freakin' 84.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 13, 2017, 02:51:57 PMQuote from: FWalum on July 12, 2017, 05:38:37 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 09, 2017, 11:49:53 PMLikes Belmont's lot in the OVC Doesn't sound like the will is there financially to meet what the MVC would demand . Says the MVC is "a good league " but believes that it's a one-bid league as evidenced by Illinois State getting snubbed this past year That last point irks me. The MVC won't be a one-bid league with Belmont and Murray State added along with internal improvement from the current MVC members . I just don't understand why folks don't see that. An improved and expanded MVC can get 2-3 bids.
I am a little surprised by this complacency. As valporun implied, this might be the result of a coach near the end of his run. Or perhaps this is the administrations line like it was for a time when Valpo was in the MidCon.
Another indication of same: Belmont 2016 average attendance = 2536 in a what Paul Oren called a beautiful facility. From the Belmont site: "The Curb Event Center arena has 5,000 permanent seats in an oval configuration and a permanent maple hardwood floor. It has three full-size basketball courts and eight suites." Opened Fall 2003. In contrast: Valpol 2016 average attendance = 3572 in a facility that is all retractable bleachers, with a small amount having plastic chair backs. Same listed seating (5000), but Valpo has an additional 400 in standing room. Opened Fall of 19 freakin' 84.
Is that part and parcel of Belmont's complacency or is that gulf in attendance attributable to Valpo and Belmont's place in the sports pecking order of their locations? Despite being a more successful team most years, Belmont is comfortably behind Vanderbilt the Vols and pro teams like the Predators and the Titans for entertainment dollars in Nashville in addition to the music scene. Is Belmont struggling to attract people to their gym because there's no will to invest or is there no will because of that low attendance number?
I think Rick Byrd's statement that "our fans know the OVC schools" is part of Belmont's attendance problem and more of a reason to jump to a better conference than to stay. The fans know the OVC schools, and they also know that with the exception of Murray State, and the once a decade good teams fielded by Morehead State, EKU, Tennessee State, Tennessee Tech, or Austin Peay, those teams all consistently suck. Who wants to go watch that when there's so much other stuff to do especially when the weather gets chilly\cold? I think adding teams like Illinois State, Missouri State, Bradley, Southern Illinois, Northern Iowa, and Valpo to the schedule consistently--schools with longstanding well-established brands--would be just what the doctor ordered to boost their attendance and pull in a greater share of those Nashville entertainment dollars.
The argument that the OVC gives them an easier path to the dance is also stupid because it only works if you successfully walk the tightrope and don't trip in the conference tournament. Lose there and not only are you not going to the tournament, you're also not going to host any NIT games, which means lost revenue for the school. At least a decent MVC team would get the chance to host at least one game and if they do get to the tournament, they'll have a chance to win their first round game. The OVC may offer the easiest path to reaching the ceiling but it's also easier to fall harder and further due to a much lower floor; whereas the MVC has a higher, more difficult to reach ceiling but offers a softer landing on a much higher floor. Couple that with the fact that the MVC is a multi-bid conference in many sports and the reluctance to join becomes all the more baffling.
Yeah, I'm hesitant to get into a midmajor attendance-based argument when one of the schools has to battle an NFL team, an NHL team, and an SEC team all housed in their own town for attention. Gate figures don't necessarily correlate with the quality of your program. (Look at Northwestern football -- a solid top 40-ish program most years with bowl games in 7 of the past 11 seasons, yet dead last in the Big Ten in attendance because they have to compete with the Bears, Cubs, Sox, Bulls and the Blackhawks for attention and fans).
I don't agree with Belmont's view on this issue, but anyone who remembers Valpo's stubborn cling to the old Mid-Con in the years immediately after the Sweet 16 appearance knows how it comes about.
Don't remind me about the Mid Con years. Thank goodness President Heckler and AD Mark LaBarbera are much more forward thinking and aggressive about moving the program forward than their predecessors. As I understand it , a big reason for the willingness of VU to stick with the Mid Con was due to nepotism by the previous AD. Belmont's issue isn't that, it' seems like cheapness and dare I say cowardice on Belmont's part.
Just can't fathom for the life of me why a team willing to schedule this ambitiously isn't willing to put the finishing touches on what would be a fantastic schedule by upgrading their in-conference competition.
http://www.belmontbruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/schedule
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 01, 2017, 01:37:39 AM
Just can't fathom for the life of me why a team willing to schedule this ambitiously isn't willing to put the finishing touches on what would be a fantastic schedule by upgrading their in-conference competition.
http://www.belmontbruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/schedule
Some schools just don't want to advance to another level of success because "they've never done it that way" before. Sounds like Belmont likes being behind everyone else, and just getting their small NCAA share on a yearly basis.
Yet that's not even happening for them regularly. I think they've only made the tournament twice in five years as an OVC member. Maybe the solution is to hope they win a few of these great nonconference games only to stub their toe in the conference tournament so that their resume is just good enough to suffer the same fate as teams like Monmouth Valpo Murray State and Illinois State have within the past three years. Maybe then they'll finally see that their best path forward is has been and always will be the MVC.
Here's Jerry Colangelo, who is pretty tied in with GCU athletics discussing realignment:
http://arizonasports.com/story/1417784/ ... inue-grow/
(relevant section runs 15:42-17:11)
Host brings up notion of a GCU-BYU rivalry and asks about the possibility of GCU joining the WCC
Colangelo states that he loves the idea and would love to compete against the likes of Gonzaga and St Mary's
States also that there are a lot of weak links in the WCC chain and that a conference is only as strong as its weakest link This line is good news for any fans of GCU to the MVC as the MVC is the strongest of their options. That said, the Q1 and probable Q1 games Gonzaga St Mary's and BYU would provide would probably be too much to pass up assuming the WCC can be bought.
Also acknowledges the murkiness of realignment. Says there's a lot of speculation about where GCU and the WAC will be in 1-3 years and that he doesn't know or have any answers.
Sounds to me they're exploring their non-WAC options but aren't close on anything. Plus, there's a lot to consider. GCU's move could touch off a fairly sizeable realignment among leagues.
If the WCC wants Grand Canyon - they can have them. I would not want to see the MVC have a for-profit university as a member. Many of their academic programs have unrecognizable accreditations (if you can call them accreditations) and their faculty is almost completely comprised of adjunct instructors. My suspicion is that there are enough high quality universities in the WCC to also make membership there questionable.
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 15, 2018, 06:22:51 PM
If the WCC wants Grand Canyon - they can have them. I would not want to see the MVC have a for-profit university as a member. Many of their academic programs have unrecognizable accreditations (if you can call them accreditations) and their faculty is almost completely comprised of adjunct instructors. My suspicion is that there are enough high quality universities in the WCC to also make membership there questionable.
I'm in agreement with all of this. I was just sharing the news report since I know some (not too many on this board but lots of folks on the MVC board) are just ga-ga for GCU. The WCC may take them on for the market and if they think it might keep Gonzaga from bolting, but I think Seattle U and Cal-Baptist are better institutional fits even if they wouldn't add much to the on-court product. There's reason for optimism regarding those schools'athletic futures as well, even if their ceiling isn't as high as GCU's.
Gonzaga(and others) to the Mountain West?!
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-sdsu-20180228-story.html
Potentially very interesting. If UMASS to the AAC happens it will be interesting to see how the subsequent dominos would impact the rest of the mid-major landscape. I just hope the MVC stays intact and makes a power move of their own.
https://twitter.com/howardherman/status/1035339720107151363
Signs point to Dixie State joining the WAC. Wonder if this is just a one-off or if it will touch off more movement. Could the WAC restart football at the FCS level? What does this move mean for geographic outliers UMKC and Chicago State? Could one (or both) return to the Summit to balance out the arrival of Augustana and the possible departures of PFW and perhaps WIU?
Dixie State has over 9,000 students yet only offers one masters degree. I hate all these D2 school coming up into D1 ranks. Really waters down the level.
This is such a tough argument for me as a Valpo fan in light of Valpo's history. Yes, our position now might be adversely affected by new D1 schools that take scheduling opportunities away from leagues like ours, and wishing that conferences like the WAC would just go away, but for a long time we were that struggling surviving school in a decimated conference gasping for breath. This really describes what we were in 1994. I bet established mids at the time were hoping the mid con would collapse so that they could free up and fight for that extra bid. You think they cared one iota what happened to Valpo WIU Troy Buffalo NIU UMKCetc.? No these schools were barely recognized as D1 and could drop back to D2 for all anybody else cared. Then we had 1998 and everything changed. The next Valpo could be in one of these less stable conferences and it's very hard for me as much as I lament the plight of the mid majors today to say that they shouldn't have their shot to grow their programs and seek their fortune in the D1 ranks. There are things we mids can be doing to improve our situation anyway.
For me....it's more of the academic standards of some of these new DI schools.
SL Expansion Update from South Dakota AD
https://twitter.com/jhoeck/status/1083098311266127872
Takeaways:
No discussion with or invitation for Augustana yet
GCU had interest but SL wasn't interested
Some discussions with UMKC but nothing recent
I'm guessing it will take a move from the OVC HL or MVC to get the ball rolling in earnest.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 09, 2019, 07:27:24 PMFor me....it's more of the academic standards of some of these new DI schools.
This really speaks to your point and to the desperation of the WAC. Found this on a realignment board.
Fun fact: Dixie State is the lowest ranked school in the Carnegie classification among current/future DI schools, falling alone into the category of "Baccalaureate/Associate's Colleges: Mixed Baccalaureate/Associate's".[/size][/size]Here's the link:[/size][/size]
https://csnbbs.com/thread-868029-page-5.html
UCONN to BE heating back up?
https://www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uconn-sports-athletic-department-finances-revenue-expenses-20190117-2wdp5gimnvhlliwykl6npcmy7u-story.html
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/1/18/18187320/uconn-football-aac-fcs
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 18, 2019, 08:20:34 PM
UCONN to BE heating back up?
https://www.courant.com/sports/hc-sp-uconn-sports-athletic-department-finances-revenue-expenses-20190117-2wdp5gimnvhlliwykl6npcmy7u-story.html
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/1/18/18187320/uconn-football-aac-fcs
When did UConn go cold? Isn't it always cold in CT this time of year?
I just don't see the Big East taking any public institutions. They purposely divided themselves up along private/public lines.
Quote from: valpotx on January 19, 2019, 06:29:40 PMI just don't see the Big East taking any public institutions. They purposely divided themselves up along private/public lines.
Quote from: valpotx on January 19, 2019, 06:29:40 PMI just don't see the Big East taking any public institutions. They purposely divided themselves up along private/public lines.
IF they take one it will be UCONN. State flagship and former BE charter member.
UCONN to cut sports?
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25802369/uconn-huskies-athletic-director-rule-cutting-some-sports
HL Expansion Talk:
Names Mentioned:
PFW
Robert Morris
Southern Indiana
Bellarmine
Wayne State
I think any of the first four would be very solid additions and make great geographic sense. I know that USI and Bellarmine have really strong athletics at the D2 level just like NKU did. Not so sure about a third Detroit area school but adding multiple schools from this list would really help solidify the footprint protect baseball as a league sport and could add real strength to the league. I can't imagine Green Bay and Milwaukee being too thrilled about these southeasterly moves but at least all these schools are in or near major cities.
Discussion here if you're interested:
http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1137/next-hl-additions-revisited?page=1&scrollTo=3720
Purdue Fort Wayne will most likely announce tomorrow, August 6th 2019, that they will be moving to the Horizon League. Unfortunately I am out of town and not able to go to the press conference to hear exactly when the switch will be made. I am not sure how they could do it for this school year, but who knows!! I am very happy for my friends Coach Jon Coffman and Kassie Taksey, this is huge for this program to stay and compete in the Midwest rather than having to travel to the far flung reaches of the Summit League.
This move makes so much sense for the school and hopefully this will help them become more competitive as they can now invest less in travel and more in areas more important to the growth and success of the program. The increase in regional opponents should help Fort Wayne realize an uptick in attendance as well as these names coming in to play them will be far more recognizable to local fans.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 05, 2019, 11:10:22 PM
This move makes so much sense for the school and hopefully this will help them become more competitive as they can now invest less in travel and more in areas more important to the growth and success of the program. The increase in regional opponents should help Fort Wayne realize an uptick in attendance as well as these names coming in to play them will be far more recognizable to local fans.
You are so correct in this evaluation. This should help the Fort Wayne sporting community and the school tremendously. Lots of athletes from the area go to these schools and the "perception" of the conference is higher than the Summit in this area (even though hard core CBB fans know that the Summit has been ranked higher in recent years). The reduced travel and a more neutral conference tournament could pay huge dividends for the Men's BB program. PFW would have been VERY competitive in the Horizon the past 3 years and potentially could have won the conference and gone to the tournament during that time. Hopefully this really excites the Fort Wayne community and the programs start getting the attention that the caliber of teams and play really deserves.
A poster in this thread throws a little bit of cold water on the optimism of any Fort Wayne fan.
http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1042/good-article-ipfw-ready-hl?page=2
Here's the press conference if you want to see it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26C1wi39Eyg
Reaction from Fort Wayne administrators and some coaches. It's a shame they didn't get the Men's basketball coach's thoughts and baseball as well.
https://www.wane.com/college-sports/sources-mastodons-heading-to-horizon-league/
I wonder if this realignment scenario is feasible:
1. The AAC expands in football to include BYU and the remaining independent service academies (Army and Air Force)
2. Air Force places its olympic sports in the WCC
3. The WCC tabs Seattle as its 12th member to accommodate the acceptance of Air Force's Olympic Sports
4. The MWC tabs New Mexico State as the replacement for Air Force giving NMSU it's desired football home and boosting the profile of the olympic sports in the conference
5. Panic in the WAC ensues following the departure of Seattle and NMSU causing the remaining members to look for new homes
5.1 UTRGV Returns to the Southland
5.2 Chicago State drops down from D1
5.3 Cal Baptist is taken in by the Big West (with Sacramento State parking its Olympic sports in the conference for balance Football remains in the Big Sky)
5.4 In need of an Olympic sports member to make up for the loss of Sacramento State, the Big Sky takes Utah Valley which is a great fit for their footprint
5.5 Dixie State lobbies for Big Sky membership and is accepted
5.6 GCU begins talks with the Big Sky about starting football in exchange for membership
5.7 Sensing an opportunity to get the private school counterweight to Murray State, the MVC begins talks with GCU about membership without starting football
6. Murray State and GCU are admitted as members of the Missouri Valley Conference (this works because of GCU's location in an air hub)
7. To balance out its football additions, the AAC raids the Atlantic 10 taking VCU Dayton and Davidson
8. Unwilling to continue playing in a depleted A10, SLU contacts the Valley about membership The Valley accepts
9. Impressed by the MVC's power moves, Belmont starts dialogue with the MVC about membership The MVC accepts and Belmont is admitted
10. Concerned by the 8\6 split in favor of the private schools, the MVC publics ask for two public school additions Site visits are conducted at Wright State, Northern Kentucky, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State with two of those being chosen. (with WSU and NKU being heavily favored as choices due to their relative proximity to the MVC footprint in comparison to the Dakota schools, their presence in the Dayton\Cincinnati market, and Wright State's basketball budget which would be among the top of the current MVC at over $3million.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 30, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
I wonder if this realignment scenario is feasible:
1. The AAC expands in football to include BYU and the remaining independent service academies (Army and Air Force)
2. Air Force places its olympic sports in the WCC
3. The WCC tabs Seattle as its 12th member to accommodate the acceptance of Air Force's Olympic Sports
4. The MWC tabs New Mexico State as the replacement for Air Force giving NMSU it's desired football home and boosting the profile of the olympic sports in the conference
5. Panic in the WAC ensues following the departure of Seattle and NMSU causing the remaining members to look for new homes
5.1 UTRGV Returns to the Southland
5.2 Chicago State drops down from D1
5.3 Cal Baptist is taken in by the Big West (with Sacramento State parking its Olympic sports in the conference for balance Football remains in the Big Sky)
5.4 In need of an Olympic sports member to make up for the loss of Sacramento State, the Big Sky takes Utah Valley which is a great fit for their footprint
5.5 Dixie State lobbies for Big Sky membership and is accepted
5.6 GCU begins talks with the Big Sky about starting football in exchange for membership
5.7 Sensing an opportunity to get the private school counterweight to Murray State, the MVC begins talks with GCU about membership without starting football
6. Murray State and GCU are admitted as members of the Missouri Valley Conference (this works because of GCU's location in an air hub)
7. To balance out its football additions, the AAC raids the Atlantic 10 taking VCU Dayton and Davidson
8. Unwilling to continue playing in a depleted A10, SLU contacts the Valley about membership The Valley accepts
9. Impressed by the MVC's power moves, Belmont starts dialogue with the MVC about membership The MVC accepts and Belmont is admitted
10. Concerned by the 8\6 split in favor of the private schools, the MVC publics ask for two public school additions Site visits are conducted at Wright State, Northern Kentucky, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State with two of those being chosen. (with WSU and NKU being heavily favored as choices due to their relative proximity to the MVC footprint in comparison to the Dakota schools, their presence in the Dayton\Cincinnati market, and Wright State's basketball budget which would be among the top of the current MVC at over $3million.
Go to the SLU message board and propose #8 there one more time and see what the response is. Post and duck.
I know all about their conceited disdain for the MVC, but I think it would be foolish on their part not to have the calculus change even slightly in light of the potential loss of Dayton VCU and Davidson. Are the benefits of east coast recruiting really worth the extra costs when the A10 becomes a comparable (or worse) league than the MVC and the MVC could conceivably make moves to get better? Doesn't make sense to me. Also given the respective budgets, SLU could become a dominant program in the MVC in a way they haven't been able to in the A10 due in large part I believe to travel. In a universe where the AAC raids the A10 a move to the MVC makes all the sense in the world to SLU and I think the administration of that school would have to see that.
FWIW, the University of St. Thomas (Minnesota) has been officially invited to join the Summit League
https://news.stthomas.edu/athletics-conference-update/ (https://news.stthomas.edu/athletics-conference-update/)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 01, 2019, 05:06:52 PM
I know all about their conceited disdain for the MVC, but I think it would be foolish on their part not to have the calculus change even slightly in light of the potential loss of Dayton VCU and Davidson. Are the benefits of east coast recruiting really worth the extra costs when the A10 becomes a comparable (or worse) league than the MVC and the MVC could conceivably make moves to get better? Doesn't make sense to me. Also given the respective budgets, SLU could become a dominant program in the MVC in a way they haven't been able to in the A10 due in large part I believe to travel. In a universe where the AAC raids the A10 a move to the MVC makes all the sense in the world to SLU and I think the administration of that school would have to see that.
This was written in 2005 by the SLU administration:
"Saint Louis University, its alumni and fans are extremely enthusiastic regarding the Billikens' inaugural year in the Atlantic 10 Conference," said Cheryl L. Levick, director of athletics at Saint Louis. "The profile of the A-10 membership is the best fit that Saint Louis University has enjoyed in the history of Billiken athletics. Plus, the A-10 provides new major market media exposure for our program and also opens the East Coast for under graduate student recruitment for the institution. We look forward to a long, exciting and successful tenure in the A-10."
Pushback from Augustana alums on the potential D1 move? I wonder what this means for the Summit League if Augustana drops out. St Thomas might get a waiver to go directly from D3 to D1 (and into the Pioneer League where they will dominate) UMKC is coming back so they should be okay numbers wise but you have to think that schools like Denver and Oral Roberts will be exploring their options. WIU is a flight risk as well if there's any movement in the OVC.
https://twitter.com/ChaseLancaster3/status/1189022864269291526/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fusdcoyotesports.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F2163%2Fsummit-league-expansion%3Fpage%3D39
A classic response from one of the posters. Pretty much sums up the Horizon:
Next week, it finally makes sense as IUPUI is kicked out of the HL but we still have the contract to play Meth Cornfield Madness (or whatever it is now) at their gym. Then Butler rejoins along with Notre Dame who have decided their deal with the ACC is affecting their football program too much. Youngstown demands a yearly football game for ND to join and we use that as an excuse to drop the Penguins. LeCrone lights a cigar and we all stare in awe as he reveals the machinations of this master plan years in the making, one that required him to look like a fool for long stretches, but in the end, he persevered.
They should probably quit crapping on IUPUI as IUPUI just secured one of the best wins so far for that conference trouncing South Florida 70-53.
This is a great move by the HL. Robert Morris is an excellent get.
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1271129553893810176?s=21