What is the point of Red Shirting?

[VULB#62]

In a league where football schoarships do not exist and players are required to pay their way, the practice of Red Shirting seems to me to be illogical and worthless. What is the point of preserving a year of eligibilty only to have a player graduate after 4 (and sometimes 3) years and leave school to avoid paying for another semester or year of tuition, room and board?

In scholarship programs the cost to the player (and his family) is absorbed by the football scholarship for 5 years. Not so in non-scholarship programs like the PFL. So, who cares whether a kid plays as a freshman?  It really doesn't matter, because unless there is some incredible reason to stay, that kid is out of there after 4 years.  I, as a parent who has already paid 4 years of tuition, etc., would certainly question paying for that additional period just to make my kid happy.

So, I'm wondering what other poster's oppinions are on this subject.

[bbtds]

I agree. Unless you have never won a championship and the possibility of winning a championship is greater than usual in your fifth year I don't see why you would want to pay for a fifth year of tuition.

[JD24]

My understanding is that, to qualify to be eligible, 6 credits moving towards a degree are needed. If that's true then the cost of that extra semester isn't that great and the student themselves may be able to afford to pay for the schooling and off campus housing. If the athlete goes in with a mindset that I'm going to be here for 9 semesters and maybe the coaching staff lays out the best way to handle it, the scenario may be more logical in that case.

My own opinion is graduate as soon as you can but that is obviously not everyone's opinion.

[valpofb16]

Redshirting is fantastic for football, not so fantastic for our league however it does pay off. The top schools always have multiple 5th year seniors, and every rssr is one less 18 year old that the staff has to recruit for that class. It works for some schools because they have a program. Upper classmen can tell under class men "I know what you're going through". Also there is not the feeling of isolation if you are red shirting and the rest of your class is seeing the field.

Its a great thing for the players whether they realize it or not.

A)can become better players which is better for the program
B) if transferring will not automatically lose a year of eligibility from the base 4 (see Benavides he will only have 3 years left at his new school unless he redshirts)
C) allows to play another year of football which I think us posters all wish we could do

[VULB#62]

My understanding is that, to qualify to be eligible, 6 credits moving towards a degree are needed. If that's true then the cost of that extra semester isn't that great and the student themselves may be able to afford to pay for the schooling and off campus housing. If the athlete goes in with a mindset that I'm going to be here for 9 semesters and maybe the coaching staff lays out the best way to handle it, the scenario may be more logical in that case.

My own opinion is graduate as soon as you can but that is obviously not everyone's opinion.

I am of the same opinion, 24.  I was thinking maybe a player could take a semester off so that the cost would still be for 8 semesters; however, that would mean that the player would miss the off-season program and spring ball and that would be counterproductive to his football development.  Can't win, I guess. Personally, I find it unfair for players/parents to be asked to pay for any additional schooling just to play an additional 2 1/2 months.

The other thought I had was if Valpo tuition was charged by the credit per semester, then carring a minimal credit load over 4 years provides kind of a banked number of credits that could be applied to that 5th year (9th semester) without costing the player/family anything extra beyond room and board.  But I just don't know how it all works behind the scenes.

[vu72]

My understanding is that, to qualify to be eligible, 6 credits moving towards a degree are needed. If that's true then the cost of that extra semester isn't that great and the student themselves may be able to afford to pay for the schooling and off campus housing. If the athlete goes in with a mindset that I'm going to be here for 9 semesters and maybe the coaching staff lays out the best way to handle it, the scenario may be more logical in that case.

My own opinion is graduate as soon as you can but that is obviously not everyone's opinion.

I am of the same opinion, 24.  I was thinking maybe a player could take a semester off so that the cost would still be for 8 semesters; however, that would mean that the player would miss the off-season program and spring ball and that would be counterproductive to his football development.  Can't win, I guess. Personally, I find it unfair for players/parents to be asked to pay for any additional schooling just to play an additional 2 1/2 months.

The other thought I had was if Valpo tuition was charged by the credit per semester, then carring a minimal credit load over 4 years provides kind of a banked number of credits that could be applied to that 5th year (9th semester) without costing the player/family anything extra beyond room and board.  But I just don't know how it all works behind the scenes.

This may help understand what is going on relative to costs etc.  If 24 is correct on the 6 credit rule. The site states that for under 12 credits the rate is $1665 per credit.  I think many here are focused on the total estimated annual cost of over $50,000 but, the site also says that the AVERAGE Valpo student gets a financial aid package of around $30,000.

https://www.valpo.edu/student-financial-services/what-to-expect/tuition-fees/

[agibson]

What is the point of preserving a year of eligibilty only to have a player graduate after 4 (and sometimes 3) years and leave school to avoid paying for another semester or year of tuition, room and board?

I guess they could use a year (or two) of their eligibility in graduate school. Whether at Valpo or another institution. Not sure how often that happens in football.

[vu72]

What is the point of preserving a year of eligibilty only to have a player graduate after 4 (and sometimes 3) years and leave school to avoid paying for another semester or year of tuition, room and board?

I guess they could use a year (or two) of their eligibility in graduate school. Whether at Valpo or another institution. Not sure how often that happens in football.

Pretty sure JJ Nuness is working on a Masters degree.

[valpofb16]

Again definitely a point to redshirting imagine if we didn't have JJ and Slone. We'd be starting a freshman at DE after Studyvin injury and we wouldnt have the luxury of having Booker as a back up safety

[JD24]

Again definitely a point to redshirting imagine if we didn't have JJ and Slone. We'd be starting a freshman at DE after Studyvin injury and we wouldnt have the luxury of having Booker as a back up safety

I think VULB62's original question was more from the student/student family point of view. From the football perspective, it is certainly easier to understand.

I'm going to guess that one of the reasons that some programs seem to carry more 5th year players that, in addition to some of the reasons given regarding tradition and winning programs, they have a plan in place which is spelled out to the students. There may be a way of spreading out the financial aid over more than an 8 semester program which makes it more palatable to the student/student family and those schools who choose to do so take advantage of it.

[JD24]

Pretty sure JJ Nuness is working on a Masters degree.

Which he will complete after he finishes signing up for Medicare

[VULB#62]

Again definitely a point to redshirting imagine if we didn't have JJ and Slone. We'd be starting a freshman at DE after Studyvin injury and we wouldnt have the luxury of having Booker as a back up safety

I think VULB62's original question was more from the student/student family point of view. From the football perspective, it is certainly easier to understand.

I'm going to guess that one of the reasons that some programs seem to carry more 5th year players that, in addition to some of the reasons given regarding tradition and winning programs, they have a plan in place which is spelled out to the students. There may be a way of spreading out the financial aid over more than an 8 semester program which makes it more palatable to the student/student family and those schools who choose to do so take advantage of it.

Yes, that's what I was getting at. And you know this doesn't just apply to FB.  It is my guess (emphasize, guess) that only MBB and WBB offer the full NCAA complement of full athletic scholarships.  The others have scholarship buckets that they can divide into partials among their players. And I am also guessing that many of those buckets are not funded to NCAA maximums. So......  same Red Shirt question applies to players and parents carrying the finacial burden of a 5th year/9th semester under those conditions as well.

I am just trying to get my arms around this concept when it is outside the "full-ride" parameter.  For all I know, it might be working great for all parties involved.

[vu72]

Again definitely a point to redshirting imagine if we didn't have JJ and Slone. We'd be starting a freshman at DE after Studyvin injury and we wouldnt have the luxury of having Booker as a back up safety

I think VULB62's original question was more from the student/student family point of view. From the football perspective, it is certainly easier to understand.

I'm going to guess that one of the reasons that some programs seem to carry more 5th year players that, in addition to some of the reasons given regarding tradition and winning programs, they have a plan in place which is spelled out to the students. There may be a way of spreading out the financial aid over more than an 8 semester program which makes it more palatable to the student/student family and those schools who choose to do so take advantage of it.

Yes, that's what I was getting at. And you know this doesn't just apply to FB.  olarship buckets that they can divide into pIt is my guess (emphasize, guess) that only MBB and WBB offer the full NCAA complement of full athletic scholarships.  The others have schartials among their players. And I am also guessing that many of those buckets are not funded to NCAA maximums. So......  same Red Shirt question applies to players and parents carrying the finacial burden of a 5th year/9th semester under those conditions as well.

I am just trying to get my arms around this concept when it is outside the "full-ride" parameter.  For all I know, it might be working great for all parties involved.

Again definitely a point to redshirting imagine if we didn't have JJ and Slone. We'd be starting a freshman at DE after Studyvin injury and we wouldnt have the luxury of having Booker as a back up safety

I think VULB62's original question was more from the student/student family point of view. From the football perspective, it is certainly easier to understand.

I'm going to guess that one of the reasons that some programs seem to carry more 5th year players that, in addition to some of the reasons given regarding tradition and winning programs, they have a plan in place which is spelled out to the students. There may be a way of spreading out the financial aid over more than an 8 semester program which makes it more palatable to the student/student family and those schools who choose to do so take advantage of it.

Yes, that's what I was getting at. And you know this doesn't just apply to FB.  It is my guess (emphasize, guess) that only MBB and WBB offer the full NCAA complement of full athletic scholarships.  The others have scholarship buckets that they can divide into partials among their players. And I am also guessing that many of those buckets are not funded to NCAA maximums. So......  same Red Shirt question applies to players and parents carrying the finacial burden of a 5th year/9th semester under those conditions as well.

I am just trying to get my arms around this concept when it is outside the "full-ride" parameter.  For all I know, it might be working great for all parties involved.

Volleyball also has the full compliment of scholarships.

[VULB#62]

That's good to know about VB.  Now that we are in the MVC, we need to pump up the "non-revenue" sports and give our MVC colleagues a run for their money. 

Although my heart  says swimming, T&F, CC should rise with all sports, I could see a two-phased approach toward becoming a true D-I university that would span 7 years. Having no knowledge of the current status in each sport, the adds I propose start at wherever VU is at and conclude at or toward the NCAA max.

Assuming MBB (13), WBB (15) and VB (12) are at NCAA max.......

PHASE I
Over 4 years, add full scholarships to the following programs to bring them up to NCAA maximums:
Fall
MSO - has a max of 9.9
WSO - has a max of 14
Winter
None
Spring
SB - has a max of 12
BB - has a max of 11.7

PHASE II
Over 4 years, beginning in year 4 of the overall upgrade program, add 1 full scholarship annually to the following to approach (not necessarily reach) the NCAA maximum:
Fall
MCC -  CC and T&F have a max of 12.6 collectively
WCC - CC and T&F have a max of 18 collectively
MG - Golf has a NCAA max of 4.5
WG - has a max of 6
Winter
Bowling - Max of 5
MS&D - 9.9
WS&D - 14
Spring
MT&F - see CC,
WT&F - See CC
MT - 4.5
WT - 8

This will address, to some extent, Red Shirt concerns and help these families deal with the added cost of athletic participation at, what I now onsider, an Upper Tier D-I mid-major university.

One last qualification:  My thoughts are totally neutral regarding any sport (with the exception of the phasing).  Valpo certainly has the right to determine that certain sports might receive no additional scholarships, but that is more of a businbess decision based on available funding.

[JD24]

I was searching for something else and found this question by usc4valpo in reference to this staff's first recruiting class from a few years ago. Thought it might fit here.

The other big general is how many of the 50 freshman will stay, regardless of the magnitude of playing time they had this year.

The answer assuming I'm counting correctly: 6

The current staff actually retained more of Carlson's last recruiting class than their own first class which I find really strange but maybe I'm just really strange.

[VULB#62]

Might have to do with very limited recruiting exposure before signing NLIs that first year?

[VUOR63]

Maybe by red shirting, you preserve a year of eligibility you could use at another institution.

[agibson]

Volleyball also has the full compliment of scholarships.

Valpo volleyball gives out 12 full-ride scholarships? I would not have guessed that.