It’s bad. The real crime is if you’re selling the future , trotting out a 4 Year QB and 6 year RB are win now moves.
If you’re doing a full “rebuild” as Waddle has said he is. Let the young guys play. Rather it seems as if Andy is biding time rather than developing young talent. Specifically on offense.
I have not walked away from this season saying that we have anything developed on the offense. Top 2 WR, QB, and RB are all 4 year students and over. No one is promised back for year 5 at non scholarship.
On defense , yes they play hard. Outside of Markley the entire 2 Deep are essentially Fox guys. And we’ve fallen off a cliff on scoring defense.
Tearing it to the studs typically means that you sit the incumbents and let the young guys play. I’m not really sure what the end goal is here. It’s hard to imagine we will be up and running with another complete offensive rebuild next season
I think when Ceccini took over you could say. “Well recruiting has upticked, wow some of these guys had had bigger offers, offense was young this year”
Fox “defense really improved, just need to fix the offense”.
With Waddle I’m not sure you can point to any of the phases of a football game or recruiting which have gotten better. Only hope is retention will be a real easy judgement come November.
Early returns were this was a bad hire. If the results are similar next year, can definitively say this was a bad hire
I’m not giving up on Andy….. yet. It’s pretty clear now that he had no idea coming in how hard this would be. Despite what some posters say about the PFL being “DIII,” it is absolutely NOT, and DIII approaches or “processes” will not work unless accompanied by a totally different way to play the game - which it appears Andy has not brought to the table
The truth will be realized in the recruiting class of 2026. The staff cannot recruit like a DIII staff; they have to recruit like a DI FCS staff. Anything less than a boatload of difference makers on both sides of the ball from both the transfer portal AND the HS ranks will mean a repeat of this season.
It’ll all be in the portal season. If intentionally redshirted freshmen and starting defensive players leave. What did we really gain from having a season this year?
except the aforementioned tuitions
@vu72 - your argument is like buffing a turd. The scoreboard justifies my point.
No argument here. The point was made that their result included using their second string QB. My response was simply to point out that we were not using our first string either. No need to further degrade already a difficult result.
I thought his point was that it was so bad that the 2nd string was in as early as he was and less that PU beat Valpo with 2nd stringers.
Yes once up by 30 in the first half. They had QB2 in
This Valpo offense is the worst in Division 1, prove me wrong. Praising scores during garbage time when the game outcome has been decided is bogus, especially in Division 1.
Did some digging around the PFL
Drake: Joe Woodley 72-5 @Grandview NAIA , 94w% , 5 conf titles, YEAR 1
Presbyterian: Steve Englehart 26-14@Rose Hulman D3 65% w, 44-35 Florida Tech D2 56%w
Dayton: FBS Western Michigan LB Coach, long time FCS AHC William & Mary
Saint Thomas: Paul Caruso 6-12 @ Macalester D3, 158 wins at Saint Thomas, closest comp but doesn’t have the D3 gimmes
Butler: Kevin Lynch, Ball State Assistant head coach, YEAR 1
San Diego: Brandon Moore, NFL LB. Was in D2 national championship as Colorado mines HC last year, 13-3 record , YEARS 1
Morehead State: Jason Woodman , 60-47 at D2 Fairmount state. 60% w, winning record year 1
Stetson: Mike Jasper, NFL Player, 44-20 record at NAIA Bethel, 66%
Marist: Mike Willis , 7 year AHC at FCS/Ivy league winner Princeton
Davidson: Saj Thakkar 14-6 record at D2 Bentley , 70% w percentage
Andy Waddle: 55-61 47% w @ D3 Marietta. Never finished higher then 3rd in conference
Waddle has by far the lightest resume of that group. Then you look into VALPOS previous hires
Carlson - NAIA conf champ, Playoff contender
Cecchini- Patriot League Champ OC
Fox- Pioneer League champ DC
It doesn’t stack up there as well. If University was going down divisions. Chris Keevers has a running ship at Uindy, Andrew Rode at IWU, Brett Dietz all have ELITE programs at their respective levels with local high school connections.
Did some digging around the PFL
Drake: Joe Woodley 72-5 @Grandview NAIA , 94w% , 5 conf titles, YEAR 1
Presbyterian: Steve Englehart 26-14@Rose Hulman D3 65% w, 44-35 Florida Tech D2 56%w
Dayton: FBS Western Michigan LB Coach, long time FCS AHC William & Mary
Saint Thomas: Paul Caruso 6-12 @ Macalester D3, 158 wins at Saint Thomas, closest comp but doesn’t have the D3 gimmes
Butler: Kevin Lynch, Ball State Assistant head coach, YEAR 1
San Diego: Brandon Moore, NFL LB. Was in D2 national championship as Colorado mines HC last year, 13-3 record , YEARS 1
Morehead State: Jason Woodman , 60-47 at D2 Fairmount state. 60% w, winning record year 1
Stetson: Mike Jasper, NFL Player, 44-20 record at NAIA Bethel, 66%
Marist: Mike Willis , 7 year AHC at FCS/Ivy league winner Princeton
Davidson: Saj Thakkar 14-6 record at D2 Bentley , 70% w percentage
Andy Waddle: 55-61 47% w @ D3 Marietta. Never finished higher then 3rd in conference
Waddle has by far the lightest resume of that group. Then you look into VALPOS previous hires
Carlson - NAIA conf champ, Playoff contender
Cecchini- Patriot League Champ OC
Fox- Pioneer League champ DCIt doesn’t stack up there as well. If University was going down divisions. Chris Keevers has a running ship at Uindy, Andrew Rode at IWU, Brett Dietz all have ELITE programs at their respective levels with local high school connections.
An at-the-decision-moment defense of hiring Andy Waddle: (1) He turned around the Marietta program; after 4 bad seasons, he had one losing season in his last 8. (2) Mount Union is so powerful, it's pretty much the default conference champion, with everyone else vying for very respectable 2nd and 3rd place finishes. (3) The overall talent level in the OAC, concededly skewed by Mount Union's presence, arguably makes it as close to a non-scholarship FCS conference as you'll find outside of D1.
But still, your points are very well taken. Even with the built-in challenges, I don't know why Valpo can't get out of its own way in terms of building a more successful football program.
When I look at the season records over the past 30 or so years, Tom Horne's tenure seems to be a realistic target point for how VU could be doing. A mix of bad, ok, and really good seasons, occasionally vying for the conference title. I don't know why that seems so elusive right now.
Added: Here's the VU season-by-season listing:
https://valpoathletics.com/documents/2024/12/5/ValpoFB_All-TimeResults_120524.pdf
@david81 Horne was 6-32-1 in conference first 5 years , Fox was 21-33. He’s not coming back. No reasons crying over spilled milk. But the hiring doesn’t stack up with the rest of the PFL.
I agree the top 2-3 teams in that league were comparable to the PFL. Outside of Waddles last year those were typically 40-50 point losses.
In terms of resume pre-Valpo. Carlson blows Waddles out of the water. I don’t think you can sell a 10-15 year rebuild at the FCS level. Too many kids poached both ways.
I think AD wanted to have her person in. I’m just hoping she didn’t kill football. It took the team really 6 years to bounce back to competitiveness after Carlson hire.
Hopefully. We see more competitive football. If not, it’ll be 3-3.5 years for Waddle and on to the next phase of Valpo football, if there is one
@valpofb16 You beat me to Horne’s early years history, and that is a key point. I’d go back to Norm Amundsen, who had a 44-40-3 career record at VU years before Horne or, before that, Walt Reiner at 49-20-2 (“Co-coaching” with Em Bauer, but us players knew who was the real HFBC 😉) for examples of good Valpo football, then of course, Horne.
But Reiner, Amundsen, and to an extent Horne, coached in much different, more stable eras when you built programs over time, freshmen were ineligible, and players seldom started until their Jr. or Sr. years.
I am not going to blame Hosmer quite yet. Fox was 21-33, a definite losing record in the D1 conference in the country. If your goal is having 4-8 season and be happy about it, then leave me out. I think Fox was at the end of his contract, so it was likely convenient economically to make a decision.
I do look at Waddle’s resume and it has similar experiences as Carlson, which is certainly not a positive. However, Waddle hasn’t lost a game 86-7 in the Pioneer, and Waddle is not a flake like Carlson. Waddle needs to get much better talent and not be out weighed on the lines by 60 lbs, as they were against Presbyterian.
Carlsons resume was much stronger than Waddles. If you take out his previous two 8-3 seasons he had a 41% win percentage at Marietta.
Carlson, while he absolutely flamed out here. Was in the scholarship NAIA playoffs with Ohio Dominican/Tri State. Won 93 games at between the two in comparison to Waddles 55 at the D3.
Carlson just was at the end of his rope here. Not defending the guy at all. But pre revisionist history that was a much more defendable hire than Waddles.
Program is also night and day from what Carlson inherited. Kroenke, Locker room, weight room, returning talent etc etc
post revisionist history…. , that Jacksonville coach also had to vacate all of his PFL wins for providing full ride scholarships
Coach Waddle will face natural graduation attrition as do all coaches. But he also faces potentially numerous defections to the portal resulting from how poorly his team has played in his first season.
In today’s immediate gratification environment, it’ll come down to who among potentially returning players are willing to slog through another or two similar campaigns as the “process” is instilled in the program.
And it is not the initial W-L record. It is the way Valpo is losing and by how much. The players are certainly not blind.
>> Even after a one win first year, many of Fox’s losses were closer scores (Points For: 15.6 ppg, Points Against: 28.8 ppg = delta of -13.2 ppg) and 4 losses were within one score. That generated hope and optimism going into year two.
>> After 9 games, Waddle’s losses are by greater deficits (Point’s For: 18.3 ppg; Points Against: 36.3 ppg = delta of -18.0 ppg) with only 1 game within 1 score.
>> And, if you throw out the 67-10 VUL win (Point’s For: 12.2 ppg; Points Against: 39.5 ppg = delta of -27.3 ppg in 8 games), it hardly inspires confidence going into 2026, cuz it says we can’t score and we can’t defend.
Fox had four wins last year. Two against non D1s and one on perhaps the most boneheaded coaching decision of all time--plus a last second prayer to win the last game of the season. This with VASTLY better position depth particularly on defense. Yes, the margin of loss were smaller but still, losses.
