The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

I believe GB is more scared of losing this game than Valpo.  Valpo 80, GB 74.

Last time we were in GB we played the best game in a number of years. Hope Peters will look like Kenny from last year.

I don't ever pick against our team, so I will say Valpo wins a close one 63-61

I will go with my road trend that has led to victories, and pick GB:

GB 75
Valpo 71

Quote from: valpotx on February 17, 2014, 06:38:52 PMI will ... pick GB:

(http://www.troll.me/images/screaming-baby/get-behind-me-satan.jpg)

I predict that our three bigs take turns muscling and generally disrupting Brown's game throughout the first and into the second half.  He will take his bruised body and retreat to the perimeter where, alas, he will personally alter their game plan, thus keeping us in the game.  Unfortunately our bigs will, one at a time,  foul out by the 6 minute mark of the 2nd half.  Yet, we will win with our "small" lineup out-hustling the Phoenix over the last 4 minutes.  We win on FTs in the last 1:30.

I don't know if well ever see a repeat of what happened at Milwaukee. 15 fouls by our 3 bigs in only 39 total minutes. I still can't believe it.

WH, you were there, right?  I was too.  I can't believe it either. If you were 6'10" or taller, all fouls close to the basket were attributed to you -- whether you did it,  or were even in close proximity to the a ball, or were even on the floor. 

BTW would have liked to meet you, but alas........

Should be a good game. Valpo matches up well with GB. Will be interesting to see how Brown handles the size. Perhaps we can get him into foul trouble early.

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 17, 2014, 09:10:22 PM
BTW would have liked to meet you, but alas........

Same here '62. We want to come up again next season. Maybe then...

Does the Horizon still permit/pay for one chartered flight per conference season (NCAA Tourney money) and did we choose this game to be that flight (which would have been my suggestion -- thursday, 6 hour drive, home game Sat)? If we bus this game, we lose by almost 20 -- 72-53. If it's a flight, we lose by 5 with GB hitting FTs the last minute to clinch -- 72-67. Remember first team to 70 usually wins Horizon games. Upset keys, however, our bigs have to score in total 11 or more and block 6 shots (Moussa and Vashil), we have 10+ offensive rebounds and Peters scores 15, oh and <15 turnovers.

Quote from: valpo84 on February 18, 2014, 08:56:43 AM
Does the Horizon still permit/pay for one chartered flight per conference season (NCAA Tourney money) and did we choose this game to be that flight (which would have been my suggestion -- thursday, 6 hour drive, home game Sat)? If we bus this game, we lose by almost 20 -- 72-53. If it's a flight, we lose by 5 with GB hitting FTs the last minute to clinch -- 72-67. Remember first team to 70 usually wins Horizon games. Upset keys, however, our bigs have to score in total 11 or more and block 6 shots (Moussa and Vashil), we have 10+ offensive rebounds and Peters scores 15, oh and <15 turnovers.

My guess is that we would have used the flight when we played in the "Holiday Classic" in Orlando back in December.  I know I as well was a little worried about a Thursday night game away followed by a Saturday afternoon game back at home.

Overall I'm not that concerned with the travel. Green Bay isn't that far, there is no time change, and all they do is sit on a bus and study, listen to music, talk with one another. They're not the ones driving. Sitting on a bus or in a dorm is really no different. All it does is take away time from practice on Friday.

I believe the team is flying.

Quote from: classof2014 on February 18, 2014, 04:35:06 PM
Overall I'm not that concerned with the travel. Green Bay isn't that far, there is no time change, and all they do is sit on a bus and study, listen to music, talk with one another. They're not the ones driving. Sitting on a bus or in a dorm is really no different. All it does is take away time from practice on Friday.

Have you ever been a passenger on a bus ride of 6 hours, then played a competitive sport the next day?  It may sound easy to do, but long bus rides can definitely take a toll on both your mental and physical conditioning.  You already have that feeling of not being at peace in your own bed working against you, then adding a long commute makes it even worse.  It can be hard to get over that initial weird feeling of feeling out of place when at practice on the road. 

Quote from: valpotx on February 18, 2014, 05:04:20 PM

Quote from: classof2014 on February 18, 2014, 04:35:06 PM
Overall I'm not that concerned with the travel. Green Bay isn't that far, there is no time change, and all they do is sit on a bus and study, listen to music, talk with one another. They're not the ones driving. Sitting on a bus or in a dorm is really no different. All it does is take away time from practice on Friday.

Have you ever been a passenger on a bus ride of 6 hours, then played a competitive sport the next day?  It may sound easy to do, but long bus rides can definitely take a toll on both your mental and physical conditioning.  You already have that feeling of not being at peace in your own bed working against you, then adding a long commute makes it even worse.  It can be hard to get over that initial weird feeling of feeling out of place when at practice on the road.

Yep!  I regularly drive the leg from Milwaukee to just south of GB -- believe me,   it's not intellectually stimulating ....   look a farm!  And I am 6'1" --  not 7' or even 6'5''.  Those buses are not designed for BB players.

I really don't think the travel will effect them Saturday. If anything it would be fatigue and nagging injuries after playing a game a two days prior. If the YSU game was Friday night instead then maybe. Saturday though it will have no effect. Like I said, I don't think sitting on a bus will effect their play at all. What will effect the game will be nagging injuries following the GB game much more than a few hour bus ride on Friday morning.

The Horizon League pays for one charter a year. Valpo is using that to fly to GB.

Glad to hear that.

While we're on the subject, long, non-intellectualy stimulating road trips would be a much bigger topic on this board had we moved to the MVC.

Thanks Chef. Using it on this trip is a great move. For Co2014, as someone who has been cramped on planes and other transportation for many hours at a time, getting off said mode and trying to play basketball at a high level is effected, especially crawling onto a cramped bus with insufficient leg room and riding for 6 hours after playing. For the players to be home 2 hours after a game (or so) and a full night's rest in your own bed does wonders. Fatigue and nagging injuries are exacerbated by long bus rides.

So does the charter leave form Porter County Airport?  If not, they have a ninety minute ride to the airport on a bus, wait at the airport for another hour or two,  then however long the plane sits on the ground plus the time of the the flight, and then the bus ride to the gym or hotel.  I suppose that's a bit better than just taking a bus.

When the FB team flew charter they flew out of Gary.

Porter County.

This game sets the tone for the rest of the season, win here the rest of the games become Important. A loss and we are playing for 3ed or 4Th. The team responds and puts a body on Brown using at least 12 fouls. and MR Dority runs Mr Sykes off the court. The rest of the team flies all over the court with out reservation.

Valpo 74 UWGB 66. We win three more and stay Home for two more games!!!!!! ;D   

Even if we lose, we are not out of second.  We would have one more loss than CSU, and would still play them at home.  We own the tiebreaker against them if we beat them and end up with the same conference record, since the next tiebreaker is best record against top seed (we would be 1-1 against GB, and they would be 0-2).

Since we have depth at the 5, the big question will be if we could get Brown into foul trouble early on. If he picks up a couple of quick ones that really could alter the game of GB. I would imagine that either Vashil, Moussa, or Bobby will foul out while the other two playing foul trouble. I'd be fine with that if that's because they're playing physical and Brown is racking up the fouls as well. Should be a fun game to watch and has huge implications on who finishes where. Even though GB can afford 2 losses, if we win that puts a ton of pressure on them.

I find the lack of excitement on some fans boards as very sad.  One day before a very big game in which GB can clinch first place and their senior day, has garnered a total of Two posts from the GB fans.  At the same time we are over 20.  Says a lot. 

Quote from: Pgmado on February 19, 2014, 12:07:12 PM
Porter County.

Nope.  Gary.

Here's the quote from the FB Facebook page:  "Crusaders arrive Gary International Airport for charter flight to Grand Forks ND."  There were pictures with it as well.

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 19, 2014, 02:43:38 PM

Quote from: Pgmado on February 19, 2014, 12:07:12 PM
Porter County.

Nope.  Gary.

Here's the quote from the FB Facebook page:  "Crusaders arrive Gary International Airport for charter flight to Grand Forks ND."  There were pictures with it as well.

Not sure but think he may have meant that the basketball team is flying out of Porter.  Obviously a smaller plane can be used which might allow the flight from a smaller airport.

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 19, 2014, 02:43:38 PMHere's the quote from the FB Facebook page:  "Crusaders arrive Gary International Airport for charter flight to Grand Forks ND."

The team is trying to get to Green Bay Wisconsin not Fargo ND, Fargo is about 450 miles from Green Bay Valpo is about 200 miles from Green Bay. Call out the geography Dept!!!  ;D

WHY DON'T PEOPLE READ BEFORE THEY POST

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 19, 2014, 04:02:53 PMWHY DON'T PEOPLE READ BEFORE THEY POST GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Mostly to draw your ire

IRE IS DRAWN

and quartered.

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 19, 2014, 04:58:16 PMIRE IS DRAWN and quartered.

Yes, I saw that. IREland and England played to a 1-1 draw in May 2013 at Wembley stadium. But I do believe the match was played in halves so there were no quarters as is true in most football matches.

Did you know that the bus that takes fans to a football match in Ireland and the UK is called a coach. So in the case where soccer fans ride a bus it's called a football coach. ::)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/22677284 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/22677284)

That is what you meant isn't it? I didn't really read the whole thread and kind of reacted to what you said in your post. Some people! :-[

I calling it first. VU WILL BE ranked sometime in the next four years. ;D

Quote from: Pgmado on February 19, 2014, 12:07:12 PM
Porter County.

I've flown out of PC airport a couple of times. It is a dream. Show up a few minutes before takeoff, board and go. According to flight schedules they should be in GB from 40-60 minutes later, depending on the aircraft. Easier than a bus ride to UIC.

This board is heading dangerously close to reviewing the latest AAA magazine Midwest issues. Starved Rock State Park and other notable sites can be found and brochures readily ordered. 

Let's analyze the expenses for fan travel from Valparaiso by airplane, car, train or bicycle and factor in the road tolls, food costs, and depreciation of personal vehicles.   
Who's with me?

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdmihkgtNL1r7h8e7o1_400.gif)

Quote from: wh on February 19, 2014, 08:50:36 PM

Quote from: Pgmado on February 19, 2014, 12:07:12 PMPorter County.

I've flown out of PC airport a couple of times. It is a dream. Show up a few minutes before takeoff, board and go. According to flight schedules they should be in GB from 40-60 minutes later, depending on the aircraft. Easier than a bus ride to UIC.

Does that flight path take them over Lake Michigan?

What about Green Bay? What airport do they land at or near Green Bay and how far is it from the airport to the motel and then how far is it to the Resch Center?

I heard they are traveling via rickshaws, but my sources on this aren't the most reliable. Does anyone know if this game is on ESPN3 or am I stuck watching it on the hLN app (which I love) on the iPad screen.

Quote from: historyman on February 19, 2014, 10:12:38 PM

Quote from: wh on February 19, 2014, 08:50:36 PM

Quote from: Pgmado on February 19, 2014, 12:07:12 PMPorter County.

I've flown out of PC airport a couple of times. It is a dream. Show up a few minutes before takeoff, board and go. According to flight schedules they should be in GB from 40-60 minutes later, depending on the aircraft. Easier than a bus ride to UIC.

Does that flight path take them over Lake Michigan?

What about Green Bay? What airport do they land at or near Green Bay and how far is it from the airport to the motel and then how far is it to the Resch Center?

For some reason your post got me to thinking about bbtds. I wonder what ever happened to him?

Men's basketball: UWGB hopes to clinch Horizon title at home
By Scott Venci Press-Gazette Media
February 19, 2014

The University of Wisconsin-Green Bay men's basketball team can clinch at least a share of its first conference championship in 18 years with a win over Valparaiso Thursday night at the Resch Center.

Winning the Horizon League title and earning a No. 1 seed for the conference tournament next month would be nice. Doing it in front of the home fans would make it even better.

"We have never won, so I don't know how it would feel to clinch it, home or away," said junior point guard Keifer Sykes, who was 2 years old the last time the Phoenix won a title. "But I know it definitely would be better to clinch it at home.

"When you go somewhere away from home or you play basketball in college, you look at the coaching staff of the team and the fans, the people who embrace you the most. ... the fan base, the kids, all the parents, we love them."

UWGB must figure out a way to beat a Crusaders team that has won the last four games in the series and is the two-time defending conference champion. The skid includes a 75-60 loss at Valparaiso last month that ended a 12-game winning streak by the Phoenix, although UWGB senior center Alec Brown missed the game with a shoulder injury.

With the way his team played that night, UWGB coach Brian Wardle doesn't believe the Phoenix would have won even if Brown had been available. Its transition defense was "awful" and it could not contain Crusaders senior guard LaVonte Dority, who scored a game-high 26 points while shooting 9-for-12 from the field.

Anything else?

"We don't have enough time for me to go through a list of things we didn't do well," Wardle said. "It was not our best effort or game. Our young men know that. We have to be dialed in."

The Phoenix appeared to be dialed in during its trip through Ohio last week, beating Youngstown State 71-40 on Thursday and Cleveland State 68-54 on Saturday, a win that gave it at least a two-game lead over every other team in the conference.

Brown also appears to be back to where he was before he injured his shoulder against Detroit on Jan. 26.

He was named the Horizon League's player of the week Monday after averaging 21.5 points, 6.5 rebounds and 2.5 blocks against YSU and CSU, and he said Tuesday his shoulder is almost healed. It's more mental now and just being confident the shoulder won't limit him.

Whether the Phoenix would have won with Brown the first time against Valparaiso is anyone's guess, but having him anchor the defense tonight can only help.

"Hopefully, I can make a big difference," Brown said. "Whether it be clogging up the lane or stretching out the floor on offense. Really whatever I can do to help.

"I'm sure the guys are going to come to play, too."

Noteworthy: Wardle did not provide additional details about senior guard Vincent Garrett, who was suspended three games last week because of a violation of a team rule.

"I don't comment on student-athlete discipline," Wardle said. "He's been held accountable. We are moving forward."

Garrett will complete his suspension against the Crusaders tonight, although he is expected to participate in Senior Night ceremonies with Brown before the game.

Thursday night's preview

What: University of Wisconsin-Green Bay (21-5 overall, 11-2 Horizon League) vs. Valparaiso (16-11, 8-4).

When: 7 p.m.

Where: Resch Center, Ashwaubenon.

Radio: WNFL (1440 AM).

Coaches: UWGB -- Brian Wardle (62-52, fourth season); Valparaiso -- Bryce Drew (64-31, third season).

All-time series: UWGB leads 26-20.

UWGB update: The Phoenix has won 16 of 21 games against Valparaiso at home. ... Senior center Alec Brown enters Senior Night with 1,619 career points, 777 rebounds and 293 blocks. "I'm excited, I have a lot of friends and family coming (for the game)," Brown said. "Being Senior Night, it's a big night. Hopefully, it's not our last time playing at the Resch, but there is always that chance. It's been a long ride, and it's been fun." ... Brown needs 17 blocks to become the Horizon League's all-time leader. ... The Phoenix remains second in the league in offense and defense, averaging 75.4 points per game and allowing 64.0.

Valparaiso update: The Crusaders beat UW-Milwaukee 77-62 on Saturday. Senior guard LaVonte Dority led Valpo with 19 points, while senior guard Jordan Coleman had his first career double-double with 14 points and 11 rebounds. ... Valpo has gone 4-2 on the road in league play and has won four of its past five. Under Drew, the team has gone 17-6 in conference games on the road. ... The Crusaders' five freshmen have combined for 42.2 percent of the team's minutes played this season. Three of the five -- Jubril Adekoya, Alec Peters and Lexus Williams -- have played every game and are averaging at least 19 minutes. ... Valpo is averaging 74.9 points per game and allowing 67.6. ... The team is shooting 47.6 percent overall, 37.7 percent on 3s and 73.9 percent from the line.

-- Scott Venci

Thats a pretty incredible road record in conference play! 

Does that flight path take them over Lake Michigan?

What about Green Bay? What airport do they land at or near Green Bay and how far is it from the airport to the motel and then how far is it to the Resch Center?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 10:16:38 PM by historyman »

The airport is Austin Straubel Field. It's approx. 4 miles from the Resch Center. I'm not sure what Hotel you are staying at but there's 4-5 within walking distance of the Resch. Most of the Hotels have shuttle service to and from the Airport.

Quote from: jjmiller on February 20, 2014, 09:07:35 AMDoes that flight path take them over Lake Michigan? What about Green Bay? What airport do they land at or near Green Bay and how far is it from the airport to the motel and then how far is it to the Resch Center? « Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 10:16:38 PM by historyman » The airport is Austin Straubel Field. It's approx. 4 miles from the Resch Center. I'm not sure what Hotel you are staying at but there's 4-5 within walking distance of the Resch. Most of the Hotels have shuttle service to and from the Airport.

Thank you for your answers to my questions. Now that I think of it this is the same procedure and route used by at least 8 to 10 NFL teams every year.

long time reader, first time poster. Vegas has the line as green bay 9.5 favs, I was shocked. Does the big man in the middle for them make that much of a difference?

Quote from: VUfan on February 19, 2014, 03:36:34 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 19, 2014, 02:43:38 PMHere's the quote from the FB Facebook page:  "Crusaders arrive Gary International Airport for charter flight to Grand Forks ND."

The team is trying to get to Green Bay Wisconsin not Fargo ND, Fargo is about 450 miles from Green Bay Valpo is about 200 miles from Green Bay. Call out the geography Dept!!!  ;D

If you had read what you had quoted, the football team's flight was to Grand Forks, ND not Fargo, ND. Grand Forks is 600 miles from Green Bay not 450 miles!!!!

That is a tempting bet...

Yes the Resch is across the street from Lambeau Field they share a parking lot.  :)

Quote from: valpotx on February 20, 2014, 10:12:11 AMThat is a tempting bet...

I just checked Bovada and they don't have the line up, but if it's anything near 9 points I'm going for that.  No way we lose by double digits. 

Here's some interesting information from the preview:

QuoteValparaiso:
Team record: 16-11 SU, 13-9 ATS
Current streak: won 2 straight games.

is 4-1 SU in its last 5 games on the road
The total has gone OVER in 4 of last 6 games when playing on the road against Wisc-Green Bay
is 2-4 ATS in its last 6 games when playing on the road against Wisc-Green Bay
is 2-6 SU in its last 8 games when playing on the road against Wisc-Green Bay

When playing on Thursday are 5-5
Before playing Youngstown State are 5-5
After playing Wisc-Milwaukee are 7-3
After a win are 5-5

Wisc-Green Bay:
Team record: 21-5 SU, 12-10 ATS
Current streak: won 2 straight games.

is 13-1 SU in its last 14 games at home
is 16-2 SU in its last 18 games
The total has gone UNDER in 4 of last 5 games at home
is 6-2 SU in its last 8 games when playing at home against Valparaiso

When playing on Thursday are 3-7
Before playing Oakland are 2-1
After playing Cleveland State are 6-4
After a win are 8-2

Quote from: wh on February 19, 2014, 10:44:13 PMFor some reason your post got me to thinking about bbtds. I wonder what ever happened to him?

still around but not posting.  happens every now and again.  I think he gets busy with stuff.

bbtds, we miss you and hope you are well.

Quote from: bombkicker on February 20, 2014, 09:53:11 AM
long time reader, first time poster. Vegas has the line as green bay 9.5 favs, I was shocked. Does the big man in the middle for them make that much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of points considering that GB has not covered the spread in any of their last 4 home games and lost to Milwaukee outright in their last home game 12 days ago:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/wisconsin-green-bay/schedule (http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/wisconsin-green-bay/schedule)

When does HL provide a replay of the game?  I will not be able to watch it live. 

Quote from: wh on February 20, 2014, 01:00:36 PM

Quote from: bombkicker on February 20, 2014, 09:53:11 AM
long time reader, first time poster. Vegas has the line as green bay 9.5 favs, I was shocked. Does the big man in the middle for them make that much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of points considering that GB has not covered the spread in any of their last 4 home games and lost to Milwaukee outright in their last home game 12 days ago:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/wisconsin-green-bay/schedule (http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/wisconsin-green-bay/schedule)

From the stat sheet on the UWM game it looks like despite playing 31 minutes Brown didn't really show up.  All Sykes.  UWM taking it to GB on the road in their house bodes well for our lads.

Quote from: oklahomamick on February 20, 2014, 01:03:36 PM
When does HL provide a replay of the game?  I will not be able to watch it live. 

It'll probably be available by tomorrow morning.

Don't be too hard on Green Bay fans for not posting on their board - they do lead the league in average attendance and drew over 6000 for Cleveland State.

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 20, 2014, 01:24:53 PM

Quote from: wh on February 20, 2014, 01:00:36 PM

Quote from: bombkicker on February 20, 2014, 09:53:11 AM
long time reader, first time poster. Vegas has the line as green bay 9.5 favs, I was shocked. Does the big man in the middle for them make that much of a difference?

Seems like a lot of points considering that GB has not covered the spread in any of their last 4 home games and lost to Milwaukee outright in their last home game 12 days ago:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/wisconsin-green-bay/schedule (http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/wisconsin-green-bay/schedule)

From the stat sheet on the UWM game it looks like despite playing 31 minutes Brown didn't really show up.  All Sykes.  UWM taking it to GB on the road in their house bodes well for our lads.

Bovada has the line set at UWGB -9.  I put $3 on it because I'm a big time spender :P

I think it is safe to say that we are underdogs in 3 of our next 4 games.  Looks like we have the toughest remaining schedule in the HL.  How we do in these 4 games will say a lot about how good we actually are.   

So far I'm concerned. Everyone looks awful.

Sent from my NX008HD8G using Tapatalk

Somehow we have the lead after only having 2 points through the first 8 or so minutes.

I think my ears are bleeding, I can't stand the GB play-by-play guy. Every bucket they get he screams like they just won the game. Driving me insane.

A great game so far, we have a lot of upside in this one. Hope the coaching staff can get the kids under control.

I like the defensive look but taking the ball towards Brown has not been very productive. I think we will have to get hot from the outside in order to pull this off.

An observation....As much as I like Dority as an offensive player, he can be a bit of a defensive liability when guys drive on him. I've noticed all season that he is often screened out around the lane and doesn't appear to recover from screens very well.  Time and time again, guys get by him in the lane, causing him to chase them as they go to the hoop. 

I don't ever complain about refs, but this has been terribly one-sided in regards to calls.  They get minimal contact fouls, and we have to get hammered to get a call?  Complete BS game, didn't even give us a chance.

Ridiculous.

And the worst part is that this is where the conference tournament will have to be played.

Atrocious Wisconsin refs.

yes it's a thing.
http://btn.com/2014/01/05/tempers-flare-in-madison-mccaffery-ejected-from-game/ (http://btn.com/2014/01/05/tempers-flare-in-madison-mccaffery-ejected-from-game/)

Also, why even attempt to put in more fouls on the offense, if you NEVER call it when GB's players push off/extend the arm just about each time down the floor? 

The GB announcer is almost as annoying as the YSU announcer.  I like UWM's announcers the most out of our competitors.

Looks like the HL has told its refs to ensure that GB gets a shot at that at large bid should they fail in the tourney...;)  I'm obviously disappointed with the result of the game but never really expected the win.  Gotta find a way to be 11-5 or 10-6 at the end of it all.

21 free throws to 5....that's all I will say regarding this game. Valpo had no chance, someone from the HL office should've warned Kyle or give him back his $3.

Hoping for the 2 seed and a rematch in a few weeks.

Quote from: HC on February 20, 2014, 08:54:52 PMHoping for the 2 seed and a rematch in a few weeks.

with different refs, obv
(http://rushthecourt.net/mag/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Fran-angry.jpg)

Difference in the game was FTs as many have mentioned. 21 to 5 is ridiculous. How much did Wardle pay these guys off? Everytime we drove into the lane we were being assaulted and nothing was being called. Dority should've had 10 or so FTs and Coleman was 6 or so compared to what. There's at least 12 more points. I didn't think we played poorly but can't have 3 long scoreless stretches. All well, we'll take 'em down come tourney time.

Agree about the refs.  with about 4 minutes to go I believe the announcer said that Valpo had 5 free throw attemps to GB's 16.  I thought both teams were about equally aggressive at driving the lane, which leads me to believe free throw attemps should have been more even.  All fouls called against us were absolutely correct, and I do think Vashil and Moussa both got away with a few.  However, GB got away with a lot.   

Also, not the refs fault, but Fouse and Brown are just plain better at setting illegal screens than Vashil and Moussa.  When we extend the hip out at the last second it is obvious, when they do it just looks much more natural.  Proving again that all good screens are actually illegal ones, and it is an art. 

That said, I do not think the refs were any worse than your typical road game.  We usually get the calls when we play at home.  Just the way it goes.   

So when the GB player tripped over his own feet at the 3 pt line, that was correct?  That one was pitiful...

I do agree that our bigs really should have learned to set better screens by now.  Moussa and Vashil get so excited to slide off of the screen to potentially get an easy basket like KVW used to, that they leave the dribbler out to dry.

Ridiculous.  I think GB probably wins this game with neutral refs but in this game refs eliminated any doubt.  Can you say home cooking?  We go to the rim and get hammered - no call.  They go to the rim and someone breathes on them - foul.  Totally changes our offense.  As I said ridiculous.  HL should be ashamed.

Vashil, Jubril and Moussa just about held their own in their time on the floor but everyone else was outplayed. We got nothing but turnovers and blocks when our guards took it inside and we got almost no open looks from 3 from anybody. Looked like we could have gotten some decent 12' to 16' open jumpers but that didn't seem to be in the game plan. If we play them again I would expect to see some major adjustments but we have a lot of basketball to play before that happens.

Quote from: valpotx on February 20, 2014, 08:40:15 PM
I don't ever complain about refs, but this has been terribly one-sided in regards to calls.  They get minimal contact fouls, and we have to get hammered to get a call?  Complete BS game, didn't even give us a chance.

I am normally the same way but this is a complete anomaly.  If we had played a passive game just bombing away from outside then just 7 free throws... I could understand, but we drove into the lane repeatedly and rarely got a call.  25 FTA to  7 is just horrible.  For the season we are averaging around 25 attempts per game... not a chance we only legitimately only should be shooting 7.

They didn't call any body contact when we drove the lane.  Yes, they may have blocked it up top, but they were just running into us in mid-air with no call.  It made Dority look so bad, but both he and Coleman should have taken another 10 FTs or so between them...

Green Bay is a good team, and they may have still won the game if the calls were made more evenly, but the Horizon League ought to be embarrassed about how this game was officiated, especially since the game receives so much attention because Green Bay clinched the #1 seed.

It appears Dority, Coleman, Williams, and Carter played a total of 82 minutes, and all four often drove to the basket; however, only once was a foul called against Green Bay, and that was on a Coleman shot at the end after the game result already had been decided.

How does the Horizon League explain Dority, Williams, and Carter getting ZERO free throws in an entire game when driving to the basket as much as they did, and Coleman only getting to the line that one time? Until this game it would seem to me statistically impossible. Too bad the win by Green Bay is tainted in the eyes of many by the officiating.

Am I the only guy that didn't think the game was called that badly? If I was watching the same game you were I would have sworn that we were just completely outplayed. End of story- back to the drawing board!

^^^yes, you are alone, and apparently you've been drinking!

Funny part is the GB fans weren't happy either. At least 4-5 times the officials got booed off the floor. The HL league officials are horrible that everyone can agree on.

I agree with 20 of the last 21 posts ... the refs clearly gave this game to Green Bay.

Was that Aaron Leavitt who almost got the technical for arguing the refs calls?

Good for him!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klSaf1SfsBg&list=PLTxRmOti-0BPgpYaVIFgAPcXOJs7eluNc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klSaf1SfsBg&list=PLTxRmOti-0BPgpYaVIFgAPcXOJs7eluNc)

Quote from: EddieCabot on February 20, 2014, 09:43:05 PMI agree with 20 of the last 21 posts ... the refs clearly gave this game to Green Bay.

EDDIE MY BOY WELCOME BACK

...unless you're just being sarcastic again

IN WHICH CASE

DAMMIT
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3837324032/h6C009278/)

Previous low of FTs shot this year?  15 (twice). 

YES THAT'S FEWER THAN HALF AS MANY ATTEMPTS TONIGHT

That was @ CSU and @ Evansville, btw.

Last year's low was 9, but that was against NIU in the wee small hours (remember?), so clearly the refs were a little off their game too.

(If you compare last year and this year, you'll see how much better we get to the line, though some of that might be EVERYONE shooting more free throws with these "new rules":
http://valpodaily.com/valparaiso-basketball/game_stats (http://valpodaily.com/valparaiso-basketball/game_stats)
vs
http://valpodaily.com/valparaiso-basketball/game_stats/2012-2013 (http://valpodaily.com/valparaiso-basketball/game_stats/2012-2013) )

Before that you have to go back to 11/25/11, the infamous "one for two" game at Ohio.  Ye gads.

Here's a little trip down Travesty Lane:
(http://s22.postimg.org/48p0sonc1/Screen_shot_2014_02_20_at_11_00_36_PM.png)

WE MANAGED TO WIN TWO OF THESE GAMES, PEOPLE (although loyola and chicago st don't count for full credit)

(two of these were at home!!!)

remember the 2001 midcon championship?  gah. i thought i'd forgotten until i saw that score.

If Leavitt did about get a T he owes our Matt Carter an apology for having to get on Matt for yelling at refs at our home games.  If it was he who got on Matt.

SO WE HAVE PLAYED LIKE NEARLY 600 GAMES IN THE LAST 17 YEARS

AND THIS GAME WAS TIED FOR 6TH FEWEST FTS.

WE ARE THE 99%!!!
(http://thehumanist.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2013/11/we-are-the-99.jpg)
OF HL REFS

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 20, 2014, 09:49:17 PM

Quote from: EddieCabot on February 20, 2014, 09:43:05 PMI agree with 20 of the last 21 posts ... the refs clearly gave this game to Green Bay.

EDDIE MY BOY WELCOME BACK

...unless you're just being sarcastic again

IN WHICH CASE

DAMMIT
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3837324032/h6C009278/)

Valpo outscored by 17 at the FT line and loses by 14 ... draw your own conclusions about what caused this loss.  Would love to hear from guys who were there ... maybe chef and pgmado can give their insight into the officiating.

Paul wasn't there, but his twitter feed is a great follow and would let you know exactly how he felt about the officiating.

Quote from: HC on February 20, 2014, 09:35:02 PM
^^^yes, you are alone, and apparently you've been drinking!

Boy is this a testy group so this time I will try to refrain from throwing any more raw meat to the angry mob.  ;)

I do not think the offense generated 12 really good shots at the basket for the entire game (should we include in that the Moussa jumper and the Jubril 3-pointer?). You just can not win many games when you are taking off balance contested 3 pointers and drives to the lane against always 2 (with Brown as the backstop) and often 3 defenders.

Do any of you think that if we make no adjustments we have any more than a 20% chance of winning up there in 2 1/2 weeks? On the bright side I think a lot can be learned from this and we will need to take those lessens to engineer some better shots against WSU and CSU.

The worst part of the poor officiating is that Dority apparently may have injured his back due to one of those slams to the court that went as a no-call. Let's hope he heals quickly!

justducky -- our offense was not gelling well last night agreed. However, when you are not getting calls inside, it bottles up the offense even more because people start to force outside looks and when they go to the lane eventually you get tentative and shoot worse inside shots or turn the ball over. One thing we didn't do early is that we did remain aggressive going to the basket. The 1st half comeback was helped in part because we didn't back down. We had a couple really good 5 min stretches and some atrocious 5 min stretches. Look we lost that game. GB was as hyped, had a title on the line, home court and senior night. A bad, bad combination to start with. We withstood that and were within a bucket at the half. GB's 1st 5 of 2d half was very good and we slipped into a tentative stretch (aided in part by more no calls, but still they went on something like a 10-0 run.

Upset keys: "our bigs have to score in total 11 or more and block 6 shots (Moussa and Vashil), we have 10+ offensive rebounds and Peters scores 15, oh and <15 turnovers"

Moussa and Vashil had 5 total (all Moussa).
12 O rebs
Peters 11
Turnovers 14

Defense and Rebounding were solid. Neither team reached 70.

Not in the plan:
GB total fouls 12 (barely over the double bonus in a full 40)
Dority 3/13 FGA
Brown and Sykes were held in pretty good check and especially FG%

I think all Horizon League teams should give up their 1 charter flight a year in exchange for better refs. Even the Summit League and Valpo High probably have much better officiating. No excuse for the Dority mishap when they wouldn't let him in the game during the timeout.

If everything was equal we probably win. I thought we played really well, very frustrating game when you go step-for-step with GB and the refs decide they want GB to win...

The game summary is up at the Valpo Athletics page. These summaries are always very well written (by Aaron, I believe), and they can be revealing. The summary includes the following: "Green Bay (22-5, 12-2 Horizon), which clinched the league regular-season title with Thursday's win, was led by Keifer Sykes, who scored 19 points despite going just 4-of-13 from the field as he was sent to the foul line 12 times, making 11.  In all, the Phoenix was awarded 25 free throw attempts, making 22, while Valpo was just 5-of-7 from the charity stripe, its fewest free throw attempts in a game since Nov. 25, 2011."

I think it is interesting that the summary makes a point of noting Sykes was only 4-13 from the field, but "he was sent to the foul line 12 times." Remember that Dority was similarly 3-13 but was sent to the free throw line ZERO times, despite being sent to the floor a number of times and injuring his back. Also, the note about the disparity in free throws and that this was the fewest for the Crusaders in years suggests to me an official Valpo recognition of the poor officiating, and it serves as a subtle jab at the Horizon League, which frequently links to the summaries on its own page.

Can anyone explain what Bryce was so hyped about?  The announcers stated that our SID almost got Valpo a technical foul, so was it Aaron complaining to the refs, and Bryce lecturing him?

Quote from: valpotx on February 21, 2014, 11:01:51 AM
Can anyone explain what Bryce was so hyped about?  The announcers stated that our SID almost got Valpo a technical foul, so was it Aaron complaining to the refs, and Bryce lecturing him?

It appeared that Bryce called a time out to get Bobby and LaVonte into the game, both of whom were kneeling at the scorer's table. However, the officials didn't allow Dority into the game. Bryce & Aaron seemed to be arguing the point. If you look at the replay, it is clear that Capo and Dority are both at the scorer's table long before the time out was called. Bryce & Aaron were correct, and the officials were wrong again on a night in which they were wrong often, and this time the tape replay proves it.

I wondered if it was Aaron they were talking about.  I knew he had a more impressive title now, "Assistant Director of Athletics for Media Relations" but I guess he does still act as SID for MBB.

I'm not much of a judge of foul vs. no call.  So, during last night's game my thought process was something like, "Wow - Brown's really good at getting clean blocks without committing a foul.... or is this the star treatment?"  I don't have a clear personal impression on whether contact was called fairly, or not.  Relative to other games, or to other players.

It did feel like LVD failed to adjust.  Or was slow to adjust, to the circumstances. It seemed like he kept driving into awfully difficult situations, and throwing up what seemed like very improbable shots.

What a remarkable series of runs.  I really thought the game was over after the first eight minutes or so, when statistically we were on track to score about a dozen points.

We at least made it very interesting - which was really about all I was hoping for.  Maybe it was the refs that prevented it from becoming more than that.

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 20, 2014, 08:46:47 PMAtrocious Wisconsin refs.

But not so much a Green Bay thing, maybe?  The particular refs from last night were in their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd game at Green Bay this season.  Two of them do spend some time elsewhere in the Horizon League.  Including one with two games at Valpo.

We'll see if they resurface...

Quote from: valpopal on February 21, 2014, 11:19:37 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 21, 2014, 11:01:51 AM
Can anyone explain what Bryce was so hyped about?  The announcers stated that our SID almost got Valpo a technical foul, so was it Aaron complaining to the refs, and Bryce lecturing him?

It appeared that Bryce called a time out to get Bobby and LaVonte into the game, both of whom were kneeling at the scorer's table. However, the officials didn't allow Dority into the game. Bryce & Aaron seemed to be arguing the point. If you look at the replay, it is clear that Capo and Dority are both at the scorer's table long before the time out was called. Bryce & Aaron were correct, and the officials were wrong again on a night in which they were wrong often, and this time the tape replay proves it.

That's a very accurate description of what happened.

From the GB board:

I forgot to mention this before. I was really annoyed at the 8 or 12 minute timeout in the second half. Valpo was questioning something that the officials looked in to and then denied them. Bryce tried to storm past the officials and go to scorer's table but had to be pushed back. At the same time some little dude on the Valpo radio broadcast jumps up and starts running to the scorer's table yelling and pointing. He gets sent back to his seat an yells at the officials and pounds his hands on the padded table top. So anyone claiming Valpo didn't get a call is missing that they avoided what should have been two technical fouls right there. Oh and they are also missing that maybe the second best shot blocking team in the country did what they do...block shots. For goodness sake Coleman blew a wide open fast break for fear that his shot would be blocked.

Speaking of which GB missed 5 bunnies as well. The margin of victory should have been 20 or more.

Quote from: wh on February 21, 2014, 02:36:36 PM
From the GB board:

I forgot to mention this before. I was really annoyed at the 8 or 12 minute timeout in the second half. Valpo was questioning something that the officials looked in to and then denied them. Bryce tried to storm past the officials and go to scorer's table but had to be pushed back. At the same time some little dude on the Valpo radio broadcast jumps up and starts running to the scorer's table yelling and pointing. He gets sent back to his seat an yells at the officials and pounds his hands on the padded table top. So anyone claiming Valpo didn't get a call is missing that they avoided what should have been two technical fouls right there. Oh and they are also missing that maybe the second best shot blocking team in the country did what they do...block shots. For goodness sake Coleman blew a wide open fast break for fear that his shot would be blocked.

Speaking of which GB missed 5 bunnies as well. The margin of victory should have been 20 or more.

How ironic! Apparently, the Green Bay poster ignored the fact that Bryce and Aaron were correct and the officials were wrong. Therefore, this incident actually exists as further evidence with another example where Valpo "didn't get a call."

Also proves that the GB poster is a moron.  We missed several bunnies outside of the BS no foul calls on each drive, so yes, we probably still lose, but by a much closer margin.  You know, I admit when a ref blows a call that benefits Valpo or misses something, and wish other fans would do the same.

Quote from: valpopal on February 21, 2014, 03:25:51 PM

Quote from: wh on February 21, 2014, 02:36:36 PM
From the GB board:

I forgot to mention this before. I was really annoyed at the 8 or 12 minute timeout in the second half. Valpo was questioning something that the officials looked in to and then denied them. Bryce tried to storm past the officials and go to scorer's table but had to be pushed back. At the same time some little dude on the Valpo radio broadcast jumps up and starts running to the scorer's table yelling and pointing. He gets sent back to his seat an yells at the officials and pounds his hands on the padded table top. So anyone claiming Valpo didn't get a call is missing that they avoided what should have been two technical fouls right there. Oh and they are also missing that maybe the second best shot blocking team in the country did what they do...block shots. For goodness sake Coleman blew a wide open fast break for fear that his shot would be blocked.

Speaking of which GB missed 5 bunnies as well. The margin of victory should have been 20 or more.

How ironic! Apparently, the Green Bay poster ignored the fact that Bryce and Aaron were correct and the officials were wrong. Therefore, this incident actually exists as further evidence with another example where Valpo "didn't get a call."

Somebody on the valpo bench should have been T'd up for sure.  Only reason I can think that the refs didn't is because they knew that Bryce was probably right, but had to go with whoever's word it was at the table that "DOrity wasnt sitting right next to Capo" which of course he was.

I'm tempted to withhold judgment until we hear from the scorer.  The player's meant to check in with them?  Is it possible Capo checked in, but LVD was just sort of hanging out, forgetting to check in?

Quote from: agibson on February 21, 2014, 12:05:53 PMI'm not much of a judge of foul vs. no call.  So, during last night's game my thought process was something like, "Wow - Brown's really good at getting clean blocks without committing a foul.... or is this the star treatment?"  I don't have a clear personal impression on whether contact was called fairly, or not.  Relative to other games, or to other players.

I have to admit that I think Brown does a better job of keeping his arms up and not "swatting" downward at the ball.  However, there still was a lot of "body" on several of the blocks, blocks that in similar situations Moussa gets the foul perhaps because of his much larger frame and weight. 

The poster from GB that WH quoted is a moron (as others have pointed out).  It seems that the refs and GB forgot that GB was going against the second best shot blocking team in the conference (and since conference play started the 10th best team in the county) last night.  Looking at a statistical analysis, two of the main outliers were BLKS and FTA, both in GB's favor.  GB blocked 12 shots or 64% above their average, VU had 7 blocks or 17% above there average.  On FTA's GB shot 101.2% percent of their conference average of 24.7 attempts while VU only shot 29.36% of their conference average of 23.85 attempts.  The correlation seems somewhat obvious.

I had to cool down before I could post.    I watched in disbelief because the bad calling was so obvious. ...   If you are going to intentional make bad calls at least make it believable.

I told my wife at one point when Dorothy drove and got hammered then a call against us on the other side immediately following - late in the second that if I was the coach I would have just packed up and gone home.    (I could not see it but was Bryce in the refs faces?  A couple times I thought he should have been out on the floor. )

I am embarrassed for the Horizon League.    (consistently the worst refs in games I have seen this year.)

Quote from: Smj on February 21, 2014, 06:05:59 PM
I am embarrassed for the Horizon League.    (consistently the worst refs in games I have seen this year.)

At least they were consistent in being poor for both teams. Watching a game like last night's really makes me think that Wardle or some higher-up in Green Bay Athletics Department payed off the refs. If that's the case, those refs are fired, Wardle gone, GB DQed for the remainder of the season. If you're not gonna call anything, then don't call anything on either side. I seriously believe money may have been involved in this one. Hopefully the MVC will see the mistake in choosing Loyola and and add us into their conference.

Quote from: agibson on February 21, 2014, 05:16:07 PM
I'm tempted to withhold judgment until we hear from the scorer.  The player's meant to check in with them?  Is it possible Capo checked in, but LVD was just sort of hanging out, forgetting to check in?

LVD was kneeling in front of the scorer for a good amount of time obvious that he was substituting. Look at the replay: everybody saw him. Even if he forgot to check in, a good official scorer will remind him or ask which player he is replacing rather than refuse him entry. I have seen this a number of times. In fact, I remember Rowdy last year forgetting when kneeling to enter a game and the scorer calling to him, asking who he was replacing, and he turned and said "3." That is all it takes.

Quote from: classof2014 on February 21, 2014, 06:39:48 PM

Quote from: Smj on February 21, 2014, 06:05:59 PMI am embarrassed for the Horizon League.    (consistently the worst refs in games I have seen this year.)

At least they were consistent in being poor for both teams. Watching a game like last night's really makes me think that Wardle or some higher-up in Green Bay Athletics Department payed off the refs. If that's the case, those refs are fired, Wardle gone, GB DQed for the remainder of the season. If you're not gonna call anything, then don't call anything on either side. I seriously believe money may have been involved in this one. Hopefully the MVC will see the mistake in choosing Loyola and and add us into their conference.

I hope you take a minute, look back at what you wrote and see that your post is extremely off base. I'm not making excuses for the refs. They are human and it's human nature to side with the team that hadn't won a championship in many years on their home court on senior day against a team that had won the last two HL regular season championships. The Phoenix were the feel good story. The refs obviously fell into that trap. Not good for the HL.

Quote from: FWalum on February 21, 2014, 05:17:15 PMThe poster from GB that WH quoted is a moron

I think we're overlooking the obvious thing here.

THEY HAVE ENOUGH FANS TO HAVE A POSTER?

I am about to replay the game to see if my opinion is in any way changed. Might be a good idea if some of you did the same.

Quote from: valpotx on February 20, 2014, 09:03:47 PMSo when the GB player tripped over his own feet at the 3 pt line, that was correct?  That one was pitiful...

God, do I ever remember that one.

The performance of the refs, especially in the 2nd half, was absolutely pathetic.

Quote from: justducky on February 20, 2014, 09:23:32 PM
Am I the only guy that didn't think the game was called that badly? If I was watching the same game you were I would have sworn that we were just completely outplayed. End of story- back to the drawing board!

How badly it was called has nothing to do with whether or not Green Bay outplayed us.  They are two separate observations.

I don't mind the loss.  I mind losing 5-on-8.  Why the hell does Green Bay need the help anyway???  With Brown in there, they should win every time.

I want them to get the calls right and to at least try to be objective.  This game and the Milwaukee game were both horribly called.  I still don't know how we managed to beat Milwaukee so handily.

It's 5-on-5, people.  Otherwise it's not basketball.

Quote from: classof2014 on February 21, 2014, 06:39:48 PMI seriously believe money may have been involved in this one.

On the other hand, this is just silly.

I think historyman has it right.  The refs aren't out to get us.  Their problem sometimes is that they subconsciously or unconsciously buy into a narrative and let it color their actions.  It makes them human.  On nights like last night it also makes them incompetent, but I'd need a whole lot more before I'd go to the conspiracy place.

(http://makeameme.org/media/created/robot-referees-problem.jpg)

Quote from: justducky on February 21, 2014, 10:14:33 PM
I am about to replay the game to see if my opinion is in any way changed. Might be a good idea if some of you did the same.

Have rewatched first half and only missed call that stoodout was a throwdown by Moussa. Might have been 7 other questionable calls but the net of those would have been a slight advantage given to us. So far I would call it a well called game.

Quote from: justducky on February 21, 2014, 11:07:27 PM

Quote from: justducky on February 21, 2014, 10:14:33 PM
I am about to replay the game to see if my opinion is in any way changed. Might be a good idea if some of you did the same.

Have rewatched first half and only missed call that stoodout was a throwdown by Moussa. Might have been 7 other questionable calls but the net of those would have been a slight advantage given to us. So far I would call it a well called game.

Finished, and I think you folks owe those refs an apology because that wasn't a bad job and it in no way favored either side.

On top of that you just made me waste over 2 hours rewatching that painfull  performance and listening to that hideous announcer! I am going to throw the total blame for this to that EddieCabot guy whose yanking of everybodies chain made me question the validity of my initial judgement.   :rant:   Just give me some time and I will figure out a way to get even.

Quote from: justducky on February 22, 2014, 12:40:16 AM

Quote from: justducky on February 21, 2014, 11:07:27 PM

Quote from: justducky on February 21, 2014, 10:14:33 PMI am about to replay the game to see if my opinion is in any way changed. Might be a good idea if some of you did the same.

Have rewatched first half and only missed call that stoodout was a throwdown by Moussa. Might have been 7 other questionable calls but the net of those would have been a slight advantage given to us. So far I would call it a well called game.

Finished, and I think you folks owe those refs an apology because that wasn't a bad job and it in no way favored either side. On top of that you just made me waste over 2 hours rewatching that painful  performance and listening to that hideous announcer! I am going to throw the total blame for this to that EddieCabot guy whose yanking of everybodies chain made me question the validity of my initial judgement.   :rant:   Just give me some time and I will figure out a way to get even.

Well, then you just missed a poorly refereed game again. And you owe EddieCabot an apology. If Valpo ever gets a 25 to 7 FTA advantage I'll probably say nothing but in the back of my mind I would be thinking the refs had given my team a definite advantage if the opponent was driving the lane as much as Valpo did Thursday night. I believe the HL supervisor of officials has already talked to these refs from the Valpo/GB game and they have been told that their grade or whatever evaluation they are given went down because of this game. I'm sure the refs evaluations are only shared with the refs themselves but it does reflect on which refs are picked for the HL tourney and championship game.

Quote from: justducky on February 22, 2014, 12:40:16 AM
Finished, and I think you folks owe those refs an apology because that wasn't a bad job and it in no way favored either side.

The sixth fewest number of fouls ever called on a Valpo team in its history.
The three guards draw ZERO fouls despite repeatedly driving the basket and getting mauled.
The team is averaging 24 free throws per game and gets 7.

I watched the replay and spotted numerous no-calls that should have been easy to see (as well as the error of not allowing Dority into the game, which also cost Valpo a time out and kept LVD out while Green Bay made a run). In some cases players, especially Coleman and Dority, were practically tackled as they went to the basket. I also trust the words of those closest to the team who believe the game officiating was terrible. The only apology owed is by the Horizon League, who should be embarrassed for the performance by those refs.

I didn't think Valpo was going to win, and probably wouldn't even if the game had been officiated well. However, I would have liked to congratulate Green Bay on an earned victory in a good game, but the circumstances make that difficult to do.

The irony of all the whining about officiating in the GB game is how we benefitted from favorable calls in the UWM game just days prior.  (Forum explodes ... but, but, but, our three big men fouled out so we got jobbed and the Drews are amazing and we must have been on the wrong side of home-cooking ... nevermind that our big men's defense was all about being slow & hacking and roughly 14 of the 15 foul calls were dead on ... and nevermind that we had a coach with valuable assets on the floor with 2 minutes left in the first half who was dumb-founded when a foul occurred that made the foul situation even worse.)

In the UWM game, our ball-handlers frequently played themselves into precarious situations and got bailed out by ticky-tack calls.  The final score did not reflect how close the game really was, and the final outcome could have been much different with different officiating.  It's all perspective.

I had no issue with the way UWM was called, as it seemed to be both ways.  I took more of an issue with the way that Bryce handled the foul situation with our bigs during that game.

Now, after reflection and calming down, I still feel that the GB game had terrible officials.  They weren't paid off or told by the HL to give the championship to GB, that is just silly as has been pointed out by a few posters.  GB most likely would have still beaten us without the foul disparity, but it made it nearly impossible for us to compete with the way they were calling the game on one side of the court.  We literally got hammered BY THEIR BODIES on most of those drives by Lavonte, Lexus, and Jordan.  If you watched the game again justducky, you had to be watching up high, and not the body, because they would get destroyed in mid-air.  Those mid-air collisions are supposed to be fouls against the defense, as they are impeding the progress of the ball, and not remaining planted.  We always get called for those fouls, as Vashil and Moussa are often called for such things as well, and were in the GB game too.  Just because you get all ball up top doesn't mean down below doesn't matter.  There were definitely clean blocks by GB, but several blocks should have been body fouls, and several terrible-looking shots should have been fouls as well, as GB bodies hitting our guys on drives caused us to essentially flail all over...

Quote from: justducky on February 22, 2014, 12:40:16 AMFinished, and I think you folks owe those refs an apology because that wasn't a bad job and it in no way favored either side.

(http://alliworthington.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/The-mistake-Smart-People-make-Confirmation-Bias.jpg)

So long we win out we still get the 2 seed. The game was frustrating to watch but we're still in control of our own destiny regarding the 2 seed, I believe. Hopefully the game today will be better refereed and no team gets an unfair advantage. I'm sure the referees at the GB game won't be doing the championship or semifinals games. To me a good referee is a consistent referee. If you're gonna call it tight, call it tight on both sides, if you're gonna let stuff go, let stuff go on both sides, if you're going to be inconsistent being consistently inconsistent on both sides. That's all I ask for.

Lets go out and win these last three games, if fouls would've been more evenly called in the GB game we had a good chance of winning, do we win I don't know. But that game is done, time to take down the Penguins and move on from there. Like I said if we win out we get the ever so important 2 seed. Even if we would've won the GB game, we probably don't get the 1 seed, although it would've given us a chance. GB probably won't win the tourney anyways, if the past 3 years hold true the team with the league MVP falls short (Cole, Rowdy, Jr.), so if Sykes is MVP that spells doom for GB.

You guys are really insinuating that the officials were paid off?  :lol:

Every single sporting event, 50% of the people agree 50% disagree.

And don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

One person said that, the rest of us disagreed.

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 06:00:00 PM

And don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

You clearly did not watch that game. Go home.

Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2014, 07:05:08 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 06:00:00 PMAnd don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

You clearly did not watch that game. Go home.

If Alec Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. Result could have been the same as this time. 

nix - maybe next time it will be a fair fight.    I will play your GB team 5 on 5 but 5 on 8 is a bit of an unfair advantage.   (I think it would be difficult to not think the calling was a bit one sided - refs either got caught up in clinching the title or senior night)

Hey, be nice to the Green Bay fan.  He HAS to come over here--there's no one else posting on their board.

Officials for this game

Officials: Jamie Luckie, Kyle Ingram, Peter Juzenas

Keep an eye out for them in the remaining conference games and the HL tourney.


http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/jamie-luckie (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/jamie-luckie)

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/kyle-ingram (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/kyle-ingram)

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/peter-juzenas (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/peter-juzenas)

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 07:42:26 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2014, 07:05:08 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 06:00:00 PMAnd don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

You clearly did not watch that game. Go home.

If Alec Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. Result could have been the same as this time. 

Yes, the score would have been closer, but you still would have lost at Valpo.  Alec has around +10 each game when he is on the court, and you lost by 15.  It's cool, we'll just have to take the tournament on your court this year, when they hopefully bring along decent refs to call it down the middle.  If you can't be impartial to your team, and see that we got murdered going to the basket, you need to get your eyes checked.  Most of us can admit when we benefited from the refs giving us more calls than they gave the opponents, and you obviously aren't capable of doing so.  I routinely call traveling on our players, but the refs don't call some of them, same with fouls.

Quote from: valpotx on February 22, 2014, 11:31:45 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 07:42:26 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2014, 07:05:08 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 06:00:00 PMAnd don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

You clearly did not watch that game. Go home.

If Alec Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. Result could have been the same as this time.

Yes, the score would have been closer, but you still would have lost at Valpo.  Alec has around +10 each game when he is on the court, and you lost by 15.  It's cool, we'll just have to take the tournament on your court this year, when they hopefully bring along decent refs to call it down the middle.  If you can't be impartial to your team, and see that we got murdered going to the basket, you need to get your eyes checked.  Most of us can admit when we benefited from the refs giving us more calls than they gave the opponents, and you obviously aren't capable of doing so.  I routinely call traveling on our players, but the refs don't call some of them, same with fouls.

You can't just insert the point and player. What if Alec would have gone off that game? If he plays it changes the entire spectrum of the game. Do you know nothing about sports?

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 12:22:21 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 22, 2014, 11:31:45 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 07:42:26 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2014, 07:05:08 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 06:00:00 PMAnd don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

You clearly did not watch that game. Go home.

If Alec Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. Result could have been the same as this time.

Yes, the score would have been closer, but you still would have lost at Valpo.  Alec has around +10 each game when he is on the court, and you lost by 15.  It's cool, we'll just have to take the tournament on your court this year, when they hopefully bring along decent refs to call it down the middle.  If you can't be impartial to your team, and see that we got murdered going to the basket, you need to get your eyes checked.  Most of us can admit when we benefited from the refs giving us more calls than they gave the opponents, and you obviously aren't capable of doing so.  I routinely call traveling on our players, but the refs don't call some of them, same with fouls.

You can't just insert the point and player. What if Alec would have gone off that game? If he plays it changes the entire spectrum of the game. Do you know nothing about sports?

Chances are inserting Brown into the first meeting wouldn't result in a GB win. Who knows, there is the off chance Brown has a career game but saying GB wins if Brown is in that game is silly. In the second matchup Brown didn't play very well and wasn't the reason you won the game. Am I saying Brown isn't a good player? No. Because he is one of the top 5 in the league, chances are we still beat you guys in January with or without Brown. In every aspect of that game we outplayed you, simply inserting one player doesn't magically make it all better.

Who knows? Maybe Brown starts 5-5 in the first 5 minutes with 3, 3 pointers and 2 blocks. Chances of that happening are slim but that probably would've changed the whole game. Everything about that is hypothetical, what if? Based on how the game went, if Brown was playing in that game instead of losing by 15, you lose by 10.

The referees were the reason why in the second game the score was so lopsided, if you don't see that you need to consult your local optometrist, and perhaps invest in a pair of bifocals so you can see the whole picture of what occurred. Am I saying Valpo wins if the game is called evenly? No. All I'm saying the game is much closer than a 14 point game.

All things aside, what happened is moot. I would love to meet come the Horizon League tournament and beat a Green Bay team that is utilizing the services of one of the best player's in the Horizon League. And hope the need not of playing Green Bay plus the services of biased zebras.

Perhaps this little debate can be settled in the championship game, and I wish you luck because luck will be something the Phoenix will certainly need if they wish not to do as Phoenix do and eventually burn up in flames and start a new next season.

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 12:22:21 AM

Quote from: valpotx on February 22, 2014, 11:31:45 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 07:42:26 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2014, 07:05:08 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 06:00:00 PMAnd don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

You clearly did not watch that game. Go home.

If Alec Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. Result could have been the same as this time.

Yes, the score would have been closer, but you still would have lost at Valpo.  Alec has around +10 each game when he is on the court, and you lost by 15.  It's cool, we'll just have to take the tournament on your court this year, when they hopefully bring along decent refs to call it down the middle.  If you can't be impartial to your team, and see that we got murdered going to the basket, you need to get your eyes checked.  Most of us can admit when we benefited from the refs giving us more calls than they gave the opponents, and you obviously aren't capable of doing so.  I routinely call traveling on our players, but the refs don't call some of them, same with fouls.

You can't just insert the point and player. What if Alec would have gone off that game? If he plays it changes the entire spectrum of the game. Do you know nothing about sports?

What if Dority went off that game?  What a silly thing to say, as we can play 'what if' all day.  You wouldn't be getting the same crap calls at Valpo that you got at GB, so I don't think that the overall outcome would have changed with Brown in the game.  Also, let's see, I played college baseball, so yes, I think I know things about sports.  Saying that one guy would turn a 15 point loss into a win on the road is quite a stretch in college basketball.  He isn't Lebron or Durant going off and winning the game on his own.

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 07:42:26 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 22, 2014, 07:05:08 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 22, 2014, 06:00:00 PMAnd don't forget that when you won the first time, Alec Brown was out. So you just as well could have had two losses to GB.

You clearly did not watch that game. Go home.

If Alec Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. Result could have been the same as this time.

I love how you never admitted to actually not watching the game. Brown wouldn't have mattered.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Dude can't even troll well. 

Probably the mom of one of the refs.

I remember the post game interview with the GB coach after the first game...he stated that they played so poorly that they wouldn't have won if brown was in. Look it up.

Because they played poorly. But if Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. He's enough of a defensive presence and can score, to the point where he could swing a 15 point game. We'll never know. Just stop crying about the refs. One a piece. Here's to hoping we get to beat you guys again in the tournament. But then again, you'd probably just complain about the refs again if that happened.

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 10:39:51 AM
Because they played poorly. But if Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. He's enough of a defensive presence and can score, to the point where he could swing a 15 point game. We'll never know. Just stop crying about the refs. One a piece. Here's to hoping we get to beat you guys again in the tournament. But then again, you'd probably just complain about the refs again if that happened.

Could you be any more ignorant?

Brown should be POY, that said I don't think GB would've won at Valpo with him. Let's hope for another game between these two in a couple weeks!

Quote from: Valpofan00 on February 23, 2014, 11:45:07 AM
Could you be any more ignorant?

nope. 

Sorry we impugned your son, Mrs. Brown.  Glad you know better than your own coach. Don't worry, he's still The Great White Hope north of the Illinois line.

...but let's not feed the troll.
(http://media.nscdn.com/uploads/member/pictures/1254516260Obvious_Troll.jpg)

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 20, 2014, 12:09:43 PM

Quote from: wh on February 19, 2014, 10:44:13 PMFor some reason your post got me to thinking about bbtds. I wonder what ever happened to him?

still around but not posting.  happens every now and again.  I think he gets busy with stuff.

bbtds, we miss you and hope you are well.

I'm still here. I've been catching up on posts since one of the other posters sent me a PM that came through on my e-mail.

On December 10, 2013 I was traveling for my job when I was involved in a 5 vehicle accident in Mississippi about 60 miles south of Memphis. It was actually not snowy/icy where the accident happened. A car merged into a tractor-trailer and caused the truck to jack-knife in the middle of the interstate. I broke my right hip, right arm and some ribs. One person died in this accident and the truck driver who jack-knifed was seriously hurt and had to be helicoptered out. I was taken to a hospital in Memphis before being driven to a hospital in Indy.

When I was in the hospital in Indy going through rehab my schedule was pretty set and I got out of the habit of checking on this board.   My life has changed a great deal. After I got home I forgot my password but after a while I started reading the board again but was feeling lost because I had not kept up with the Crusaders so I never looked up my password. When I got the PM and noticed some people were asking about me I reset my password and started to catch up on many of the posts before I gave up and just marked them as read.

I do appreciate those who have expressed interest in my well being. The Lord is looking after me and is slowly bringing my life to some semblance of what is what like before the accident. Although nobody goes through an experience like I did without their life changing. I have come to feel the need to really slow down and enjoy everything in this world that God has given to me.

Quote from: bbtds on February 23, 2014, 12:02:29 PM

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 20, 2014, 12:09:43 PM

Quote from: wh on February 19, 2014, 10:44:13 PMFor some reason your post got me to thinking about bbtds. I wonder what ever happened to him?

still around but not posting.  happens every now and again.  I think he gets busy with stuff.

bbtds, we miss you and hope you are well.

I'm still here. I've been catching up on posts since one of the other posters sent me a PM that came through on my e-mail.

On December 10, 2013 I was traveling for my job when I was involved in a 5 vehicle accident in Mississippi about 60 miles south of Memphis. It was actually not snowy/icy where the accident happened. A car merged into a tractor-trailer and caused the truck to jack-knife in the middle of the interstate. I broke my right hip, right arm and some ribs. One person died in this accident and the truck driver who jack-knifed was seriously hurt and had to be helicoptered out. I was taken to a hospital in Memphis before being driven to a hospital in Indy.

When I was in the hospital in Indy going through rehab my schedule was pretty set and I got out of the habit of checking on this board.   My life has changed a great deal. After I got home I forgot my password but after a while I started reading the board again but was feeling lost because I had not kept up with the Crusaders so I never looked up my password. When I got the PM and noticed some people were asking about me I reset my password and started to catch up on many of the posts before I gave up and just marked them as read.

I do appreciate those who have expressed interest in my well being. The Lord is looking after me and is slowly bringing my life to some semblance of what is what like before the accident. Although nobody goes through an experience like I did without their life changing. I have come to feel the need to really slow down and enjoy everything in this world that God has given to me.

Wow, bbtds - what an amazing sequence of life changing events!  I'm very glad to hear that you are in recovery mode.   

Quote from: bbtds on February 23, 2014, 12:02:29 PM

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 20, 2014, 12:09:43 PM

Quote from: wh on February 19, 2014, 10:44:13 PMFor some reason your post got me to thinking about bbtds. I wonder what ever happened to him?

still around but not posting.  happens every now and again.  I think he gets busy with stuff.

bbtds, we miss you and hope you are well.

I'm still here. I've been catching up on posts since one of the other posters sent me a PM that came through on my e-mail.

On December 10, 2013 I was traveling for my job when I was involved in a 5 vehicle accident in Mississippi about 60 miles south of Memphis. It was actually not snowy/icy where the accident happened. A car merged into a tractor-trailer and caused the truck to jack-knife in the middle of the interstate. I broke my right hip, right arm and some ribs. One person died in this accident and the truck driver who jack-knifed was seriously hurt and had to be helicoptered out. I was taken to a hospital in Memphis before being driven to a hospital in Indy.

When I was in the hospital in Indy going through rehab my schedule was pretty set and I got out of the habit of checking on this board.   My life has changed a great deal. After I got home I forgot my password but after a while I started reading the board again but was feeling lost because I had not kept up with the Crusaders so I never looked up my password. When I got the PM and noticed some people were asking about me I reset my password and started to catch up on many of the posts before I gave up and just marked them as read.

I do appreciate those who have expressed interest in my well being. The Lord is looking after me and is slowly bringing my life to some semblance of what is what like before the accident. Although nobody goes through an experience like I did without their life changing. I have come to feel the need to really slow down and enjoy everything in this world that God has given to me.

Wow!  Glad you are back and on the road to recovery.  Blessing to you.

Quote from: vu72 on February 23, 2014, 12:58:44 PMWow!  Glad you are back and on the road to recovery.  Blessing to you.

amen, amen, i say unto thee, bbtds!

Quote from: Valpofan00 on February 23, 2014, 11:45:07 AM

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 10:39:51 AMBecause they played poorly. But if Brown plays it changes absolutely everything. He's enough of a defensive presence and can score, to the point where he could swing a 15 point game. We'll never know. Just stop crying about the refs. One a piece. Here's to hoping we get to beat you guys again in the tournament. But then again, you'd probably just complain about the refs again if that happened.

Could you be any more ignorant?

Could you be any more foolish? The entire gameplan changes if he plays, for both sides. We can't possibly know what would have happen. But to absolutely say you guys would have won is foolish. But hey, I knew y'all were foolish when I saw someone insisting that GB paid the refs off.

God's blessings upon your continued recovery bbtds!  Thank you for sharing your story and reminding us of what's really important in life, I can't think of a better thread to have it posted in!  For the rest of us, including our new friend from up north...can we start to move on from this game? Brown is a very good player. Green Bay is a very good team. Respect to both.  I do also think a 1-1 regular season record is an accurate representation of the performances turned in by the two teams this year.  Hopefully, there will be one more! In the meantime, there's a lot of very exciting basketball to be had here at the end of the season!

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 05:01:05 PMBut hey, I knew y'all were foolish when I saw someone insisting that GB paid the refs off.

By your logic, then, if that one poster hadn't been here, the ENTIRE CONVERSATION would have been TOTALLY DIFFERENT and there's NO WAY you can claim that you know how this thread would turn out, even though you think you know.

(http://ghost19.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/pwned-funny2.jpg)

Every time I see Alec Brown I think of Matt Kenney draining a 3 on him with 20 secs or so left.  And then Alec Brown clanking a free throw to lose the game.

Quote from: Chairback on February 23, 2014, 09:20:13 PM
Every time I see Alec Brown I think of Matt Kenney draining a 3 on him with 20 secs or so left.  And then Alec Brown clanking a free throw to lose the game.

Yep, it would be sweet if he chokes in the championship again. The missed free throw was golden :)

For anyone who doesn't know what the last 2 posters are referring to please take a look, http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m9x2BFYpOXs (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m9x2BFYpOXs)

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 23, 2014, 07:30:41 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 05:01:05 PMBut hey, I knew y'all were foolish when I saw someone insisting that GB paid the refs off.

By your logic, then, if that one poster hadn't been here, the ENTIRE CONVERSATION would have been TOTALLY DIFFERENT and there's NO WAY you can claim that you know how this thread would turn out, even though you think you know.

(http://ghost19.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/pwned-funny2.jpg)

Agreed. Had I not seeing that ludicrous post, I probably wouldn't have came over here. Much like GB could have won had Alec played.

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 10:53:00 PM

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 23, 2014, 07:30:41 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 05:01:05 PMBut hey, I knew y'all were foolish when I saw someone insisting that GB paid the refs off.

By your logic, then, if that one poster hadn't been here, the ENTIRE CONVERSATION would have been TOTALLY DIFFERENT and there's NO WAY you can claim that you know how this thread would turn out, even though you think you know.

(http://ghost19.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/pwned-funny2.jpg)

Agreed. Had I not seeing that ludicrous post, I probably wouldn't have came over here. Much like GB could have won had Alec played.

So, would it be ludicrous based on Wardle's ever so recent history, of having the thought cross their minds that he may pay off referees. Am I saying that he did? No. Then again if you would have told me at the beginning of April multiple players would have come out and accused Wardle of abuse and one of the stories include something so appalling and belittling as to what happened to Mr. Bross, I probably would have laughed as well and called it ludicrous.

Quote from: classof2014 on February 23, 2014, 11:50:12 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 10:53:00 PM

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 23, 2014, 07:30:41 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 05:01:05 PMBut hey, I knew y'all were foolish when I saw someone insisting that GB paid the refs off.

By your logic, then, if that one poster hadn't been here, the ENTIRE CONVERSATION would have been TOTALLY DIFFERENT and there's NO WAY you can claim that you know how this thread would turn out, even though you think you know. (http://ghost19.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/pwned-funny2.jpg)

Agreed. Had I not seeing that ludicrous post, I probably wouldn't have came over here. Much like GB could have won had Alec played.

So, would it be ludicrous based on Wardle's ever so recent history, of having the thought cross their minds that he may pay off referees. Am I saying that he did? No. Then again if you would have told me at the beginning of April multiple players would have come out and accused Wardle of abuse and one of the stories include something so appalling and belittling as to what happened to Mr. Bross, I probably would have laughed as well and called it ludicrous.

And that's why he was "assigned an adviser" as his only punishment. Must not be too familiar with the situation. Try again.

Wardle is given "punishment", has arguable the best point guard, a decent big guy and a winning season ...  then has his name thrown around as coach of the year by the announcer during the game. ....  What a farce.   coach of the year should be a coach that makes things happen when rebuilding.

(I thought the troll might be hungry)

Once Brown and Sykes are gone it'll probably be another 20 years until they win a championship. Based on your logic then, since Brown will be graduating and with Brown this team can beat anyone and without him take away 15 points from every game, Green Bay is in some trouble for next year.

Coach of the year should go to Bryce or Rob Jeter, right now I'm leaning more towards Bryce since the wheels have seem to come off of Milwaukee's bus as of late. Definitely not Wardle, a team that was expected to finish top two and they finish top two is not worthy of coach of the year.

Quote from: classof2014 on February 23, 2014, 11:50:12 PM
...if you would have told me at the beginning of April multiple players would have come out and accused Wardle of abuse and one of the stories include something so appalling and belittling as to what happened to Mr. Bross, I probably would have laughed as well and called it ludicrous.

Not to get off point, but it will be interesting to see how this issue may affect GB's recruiting. Even though Wardle was exonerated by the school, there could be some element of doubt that plays out in the minds of potential recruits and their families. Hard to say for certain, but time will tell.

Whats tougher: A) winning when you are the favorite the target is on your back
                     B) winning when you should be rebuilding

I think COY could go to Wardle, Drew, or the cat at CSU and I wouldn't have a problem no matter which one is the winner.

Just so everyone has current information. Mr. Bross transferred to a NAIA school with a Coach he new from HS. Mr. Bross as of 9/2013 did not make the BB team. He was on the rooster until the season started. Was Mr. Bross a mistake yes and also in the investigation all charges were proven false. The only reason it got any press was the fact He and his parents persued the News papers before even notifiying the School to ask them to check it out.  :o

Uh, actually the exact opposite, as it was essentially confirmed that he did many of the things stated by Bross, as it was placed in Wardle's personnel file, and he would be assigned an adviser to help with dealing with players.  Being an HR Manager, nothing goes in your personnel file and you don't get assigned an overwatch, unless it is true...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/horizon/2013/05/24/uw-green-bay-mens-basketball-brian-wardle-investigation/2358557/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/horizon/2013/05/24/uw-green-bay-mens-basketball-brian-wardle-investigation/2358557/)

I hope that you read the file. What was put in his file (per the University) was Wardle used poor judgement  telling him to get laid because he said he was uptight over a girl. Wardle said it was a mistake and he ment it as a joke. The other item in his file is for swearing and most of the team said their AAU coaches used stronger language. These were the only items put in his file. All other items were unproven and many players called Bross a liar in interviews. Including 3-4 past players.
Which is pretty much what the article above stated.

It doesn't state that the allegations were PROVEN false, just that Wardle says it was false, and he wasn't disciplined for the other things Bross alleged outside of the vulgar comments/sex comments.  Just because other players said that he was a liar, doesn't make him one.  Based on other articles I have seen, other past players backed up his story and added their own instances.  Often in sports, if you want to keep playing at your school and not have to transfer to another school, you won't do anything to 'rock the boat.'  You don't make up crapping in your pants and being demeaned for it to gather national attention, unless you are a schizo, or it was true. 

Somebody isn't just gonna make up a story about something as horrific as what happened to Ryan. The current players, especially Brown and Sykes, were likely to support their head-coach. The last thing they wanted was to see their playing time deminish, when they are hopefully of eventually making it to the NBA.

Just look at the transfer numbers, 14 players have transferred over the past 3 seasons. 14! That's a whole team and then some. I understand a couple of those will be for other reasons, perhaps GB wasn't a good fit, or it was too cold, or too far from family, etc... But 14 is an incredibly high number. Also a player who saw decent playing time last year, in Kam Cerroni, quit the team in January or February, that just doesn't happen for no good reason at all.

I wouldn't be shocked after guys like Sykes and Brown graduate GB will fall into the lower third of the HL again, I would imagine this really hurts recruiting. I know I wouldn't want to play for a coach with a history that compares to Wardle's.

Quote from: jjmiller on February 24, 2014, 12:03:09 PMHe was on the rooster until the season started.

(http://www.mikearnesen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/rooster.jpg)


Good thing he's no longer on the rooster. Imagine what Wardle would have said about that. "That's not what I meant when I said 'your c#@k needs a little work out.'"

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 10:53:00 PM

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 23, 2014, 07:30:41 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 05:01:05 PMBut hey, I knew y'all were foolish when I saw someone insisting that GB paid the refs off.

By your logic, then, if that one poster hadn't been here, the ENTIRE CONVERSATION would have been TOTALLY DIFFERENT and there's NO WAY you can claim that you know how this thread would turn out, even though you think you know.

(http://ghost19.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/pwned-funny2.jpg)

Agreed. Had I not seeing that ludicrous post, I probably wouldn't have came over here. Much like GB could have won had Alec played.

Seriously, did you actually watch that game? Valpo completely dominated it in all facets... Shooting, defense, rebounding, passing, everything. There was nothing one dimensional about that game. Green Bay couldn't hit a shot. They couldn't guard the perimeter. From someone that actually watched the game, assuming the outcome would be different if Brown had played is one of the most ignorant and idiotic comments I've seen on here in quite some time, which leads me to believe the stupidity could only stem from someone that did not actually watch Valpo's most complete game since last year when they throttled GB in a meaningless game (for Valpo).

Quote from: historyman on February 24, 2014, 04:03:35 PMGood thing he's no longer on the rooster.

This post is some of your best work ever here.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :bowdown:

Quote from: a3uge on February 24, 2014, 04:32:43 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 10:53:00 PM

Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 23, 2014, 07:30:41 PM

Quote from: Nix on February 23, 2014, 05:01:05 PMBut hey, I knew y'all were foolish when I saw someone insisting that GB paid the refs off.

By your logic, then, if that one poster hadn't been here, the ENTIRE CONVERSATION would have been TOTALLY DIFFERENT and there's NO WAY you can claim that you know how this thread would turn out, even though you think you know.

(http://ghost19.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/pwned-funny2.jpg)

Agreed. Had I not seeing that ludicrous post, I probably wouldn't have came over here. Much like GB could have won had Alec played.

Seriously, did you actually watch that game? Valpo completely dominated it in all facets... Shooting, defense, rebounding, passing, everything. There was nothing one dimensional about that game. Green Bay couldn't hit a shot. They couldn't guard the perimeter. From someone that actually watched the game, assuming the outcome would be different if Brown had played is one of the most ignorant and idiotic comments I've seen on here in quite some time, which leads me to believe the stupidity could only stem from someone that did not actually watch Valpo's most complete game since last year when they throttled GB in a meaningless game (for Valpo).

yet another reason we're alike:  when we steamroll us some trolls we STEAMROLL US SOME TROLLS.

also, very much enjoying how many times the awesome picture i found has been quoted and thus reposted.

There is one small germ of truth in Nix's contention:  The absence of Brown opened up a winning strategy for Valpo in that game that likely would not have been there had he been healthy and playing majority minutes.  Todd Ickow said as much before the game if I recall correctly.  I suspect it even came up in the pregame interview with Luke Gore.  That said, most intelligent Valpo-based commentators have clearly asserted then and now that to suggest Green Bay would have won if Brown had been in the starting lineup would be to minimize all the outstanding things Valpo did in that game both offensively and defensively.  It is hardly outrageous to suggest that Valpo still would have won that game.

As for Wardle, I'll simply note that recently Rob Demovsky expressed utter disgust about the way the Green Bay community has totally whitewashed what happened last summer, so I'm guessing he's not buying the load of crap that their selling up there.  He's no longer on the beat, but it was his story and he covered the team for a long time, I believe.

Face it, Nix.  You're at least a partial Kool-Aid drinker.  You're biased even if you're trying not to be.  It's okay; we all have been there many times.  I know I have.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle of the gap between Mike Rice and a saint.  Wardle is probably a hard-core old-school good old boy who is behind the times (and hardly alone in that regard).  It is hard for him to believe he did anything wrong.  He's admitted a few minor things publicly, but deep down inside he probably feels out of sorts about having to adapt to what he perceives as a weak-ass new age.  I am sometimes forced to listen to a couple of old-school whiners call White Sox baseball who are the same way.  The age is passing them by and the only way to cope is to assert their rigidity.  Mind you, I do not know Bryce well enough to assert that he is nothing like Wardle (though he is younger, so there's a chance -- he is significantly younger, I assume, right?), but if a story came out about Bryce, I'd probably be looking for any reason no matter how farfetched to take his side, because he wins.

And the fact that Sykes and Brown defended their coach frankly means little.  It doesn't even mean they are lying through their teeth.  It could easily mean that they personally have no problem with the alleged behavior.  Some people can thrive under such an atmosphere (it helps that they are the stars) even while others wither.  I've been in their shoes myself more than once in the business I'm in.

I tend to believe the allegations were not made up.  Exaggerated a little?  Sure, that's possible.  But totally concocted?  Hell no.