Just a thread to discuss anything about college basketball. I would normally put this thread in a Non-Valpo Basketball Board but those boards on this site don't get that much traffic or views.
Looks like Bobby Knight is still holding that grudge...
https://twitter.com/SBNationCBB/status/840251922095443968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVhqHd9iDiE
Bobby Knight on Indiana administration that fired him: 'I hope they're all dead'
Knight told Dan Patrick on Friday morning that he has no plans of ever going back to Indiana.
by Jim Lohmar@jimlohmar Mar 10, 2017, 12:22pm EST
Bobby Knight became an infamous figure in the world of college basketball for his chair-throwing temper tantrums and reports of emotional abuse of his players. His tumultuous relationship with the Indiana administration boiled over in 2000 when video of Knight choking Neil Reed during practice three years earlier surfaced. That, coupled with an accusation by a student that the coach grabbed his arm, prompted the university to fire him and Knight has not stepped foot in Bloomington since.
On Friday morning, Knight was interviewed on The Dan Patrick Show in advance of the premier of a Showtime documentary about the Hoosiers legendary 1976 season that saw the team go undefeated on its way to a national championship.
Knight's long-held bitterness toward Indiana higher-ups is well-known, with some fans and writers calling for the university to cool on its overtures to and veneration of the former coach.
In the course of Knight's interview with Patrick, the question of a ceremonial return to the program's campus he helmed for 20 years came up. Knight had some off-putting things to say about Indiana and university history. Patrick asked why "we" — do we? — want Knight to return to Assembly Hall so much. Here's the coach's response:
"Well, I think I've always really enjoyed the fans, I always will ... On my dying day, I will think about how great the fans at Indiana were. And as far as the hierarchy at Indiana University at that time, I have absolutely no respect whatsoever for those people. With that in mind, I have no interest in ever going back to that university."
Knight wasn't finished, though, as Patrick leaned in to point out that most, if not all, of those in the university's administration at the time are no longer there.
"I hope they're all dead," said Knight, sitting petulantly on a 16-year grudge that he caused in the first place. "Well, some of them are ..." replied Patrick, to which Knight abruptly interjected, "Well, I hope the rest of them go."
https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/840241805358710784
Yes, Bob Knight coached some legendary Indiana teams for 20 years. Yes, Bob Knight won the university three national championships in basketball. Yes, former players still sing his praises, with Isiah Thomas most recently petitioning him to return to Assembly Hall in late November 2016. But it's probably time for the university and fans to venerate other former Indiana players and coaches, and let Knight stew in peace.
I'm a Purdue alum who dislikes Purdue (mostly because of Mitch Daniels)....it was pretty sweet just watching them lose in OT.
Would you rather be a Kansas or Purdue who won the more important conference championship then lost early in the tournament or a Iowa State or Michigan who now have chances to the conference tournament title? Discuss.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 10, 2017, 11:47:55 AMLooks like Bobby Knight is still holding that grudge...
Ah the world biggest living hypocrite. Is there a smaller man in the world? I will cherish the day that people stop talking about him. He is a waste of everyone's time.
QuoteAh the world biggest living hypocrite. Is there a smaller man in the world? I will cherish the day that people stop talking about him. He is a waste of everyone's time.
It's just so petty. I don't understand it all. He is one of the greatest basketball coaches of all-time.
Don't do it for the University, but reconcile for your former players and fans that adore you.
QuoteWould you rather be a Kansas or Purdue who won the more important conference championship then lost early in the tournament or a Iowa State or Michigan who now have chances to the conference tournament title? Discuss.
An interesting question. Kansas & Purdue obviously have the better rosters but Iowa State & Michigan could have be hot team going in the tourney.
I don't like Kansas this year for winning it all. Bill Self seems to have clunkers in the Tourney and their best player is a 1 & done (which don't always perform in those win or go home environment). I like Purdue's roster the most for a Tourney run with Swanigan.
While Kansas' depth (especially upfront) is certainly an issue, it would be hard to say that Josh Jackson is a better player right now than Frank Mason. Mason will rightfully be college player of the year and is a fourth year senior. While it is not good for their spirit to have lost to TCU, it won't hurt them to have Frank Mason rest for a full week before the tournament. He is like the college running back who carries 40+ times per game....he is beat up.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 10, 2017, 03:14:43 PM
While Kansas' depth (especially upfront) is certainly an issue, it would be hard to say that Josh Jackson is a better player right now than Frank Mason. Mason will rightfully be college player of the year and is a fourth year senior. While it is not good for their spirit to have lost to TCU, it won't hurt them to have Frank Mason rest for a full week before the tournament. He is like the college running back who carries 40+ times per game....he is beat up.
Sound a lot like a guy named Peters from a school known as Valpo!
Bill Walton is bizarre...
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 10, 2017, 08:55:52 PM
Bill Walton is bizarre...
And then some. But the most self involved by far is Jay Bilas, hard to stomach him at times.
Jay Bilas is a pompous jerk. Here is the thing about Walton - as goofy and hippiesque as he is, he knows the game of basketball, He was one of the smartest players I ever watched in college and the pros. His presense as a 6th man with the Celtics in 1985-1986 was beautiful to watch, as his skills and basketball IQ contributed to one of the best teams ever. As an announcer - well, you may need to enjoy some herbs while listening, it's different.
I love Dick Vitale - if you get away from the goofiness, the guy is a pure basketball geek. He was in Des Moines last year working with businesses for the V foundation and they said he was good to work with.
Dan Dakich is also good - he has some good stories during the Northwestern-Rutgers blowout on 80's basketball that was fun to listen to.
Bill Walton is definitely a strange bird on the mic. Near the end of the regular season, the WatchESPN app had games where cameras were focused on him and Dave Pasch, while side-by-side with the game action. It was funny to watch at times what Walton was doing, instead of watching the game itself, regardless of how good the matchup was.
Be fun to give Walton a Striped Shirt and whistle and have him officiate a game to determine what was a foul and what wan not a foul.
Put an official's shirt on Dan D also...then there would not be any mistakes by a ref because he knows it all/just ask him...if he knows so much like he thinks he does he would not have lost his BGU job, or he would be on a staff somewhere. I have heard that his son was a real jerk(like his Dad)/that's why he was a walk-on at Uof M. Dan's radio show in Indy has been controversial also. He has had to "take back" a number of his comments about people and situations... which is about par for the course for a person who knows it all.
Not sure what thread this belongs in but figured I'd put it here.
www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2017/03/10/rexrode-vanderbilts-bryce-drew-deserves-credit-ncaa-tournament-bid/99027792/
Bryce is having quite the success in his first season at Vandy. A win today would take them to the SEC championship tomorrow. I sure do miss Bryce. I hope he continues to do well there.
Quote from: valpolaw on March 11, 2017, 10:58:52 AMNot sure what thread this belongs in but figured I'd put it here. www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2017/03/10/rexrode-vanderbilts-bryce-drew-deserves-credit-ncaa-tournament-bid/99027792/ Bryce is having quite the success in his first season at Vandy. A win today would take them to the SEC championship tomorrow. I sure do miss Bryce. I hope he continues to do well there.
For all the complaining about the Horizon League tournament being in Detroit at the JLA, how about Vandy hosting the SEC tournament at the Vandy facility? My SEC fan friends (none from Vandy) are not happy with this circumstance.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 11, 2017, 08:11:08 AMJay Bilas is a pompous jerk. Here is the thing about Walton - as goofy and hippiesque as he is, he knows the game of basketball, He was one of the smartest players I ever watched in college and the pros. His presense as a 6th man with the Celtics in 1985-1986 was beautiful to watch, as his skills and basketball IQ contributed to one of the best teams ever. As an announcer - well, you may need to enjoy some herbs while listening, it's different. I love Dick Vitale - if you get away from the goofiness, the guy is a pure basketball geek. He was in Des Moines last year working with businesses for the V foundation and they said he was good to work with. Dan Dakich is also good - he has some good stories during the Northwestern-Rutgers blowout on 80's basketball that was fun to listen to.
Play by play and analyst taste is like trying to critique a person's musical taste. There is no right and wrong. For me, Dakich is mute button annoying. Vitale has become a caricature of himself..."Ohhh....Ohhhh....OHHHHHHHHHH....he's a STARRRRRR BABBYYYYYYY". I don't like or dislike Bilas. Walton is a gem. Different to the point of being interesting.
Quote from: VU2624 on March 11, 2017, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 11, 2017, 08:11:08 AMJay Bilas is a pompous jerk. Here is the thing about Walton - as goofy and hippiesque as he is, he knows the game of basketball, He was one of the smartest players I ever watched in college and the pros. His presense as a 6th man with the Celtics in 1985-1986 was beautiful to watch, as his skills and basketball IQ contributed to one of the best teams ever. As an announcer - well, you may need to enjoy some herbs while listening, it's different. I love Dick Vitale - if you get away from the goofiness, the guy is a pure basketball geek. He was in Des Moines last year working with businesses for the V foundation and they said he was good to work with. Dan Dakich is also good - he has some good stories during the Northwestern-Rutgers blowout on 80's basketball that was fun to listen to.
Play by play and analyst taste is like trying to critique a person's musical taste. There is no right and wrong. For me, Dakich is mute button annoying. Vitale has become a caricature of himself..."Ohhh....Ohhhh....OHHHHHHHHHH....he's a STARRRRRR BABBYYYYYYY". I don't like or dislike Bilas. Walton is a gem. Different to the point of being interesting.
It's why Baskin Robbins has 31-flavors of 🍦
John Groce has been fired at Illinois. I hope they consider Roger Powell as a replacement.
How long do we think that Lottich will stay at Valpo?
QuoteHow long do we think that Lottich will stay at Valpo?
Asking the question nobody wants to hear but we are all privately thinking to ourselves. I've been thinking about it too since the end of the season.
Coach Lottich did a really nice job this year especially under the circumstances of K Carter ruling, Skara transfer, Jubril NCAA ruling, AP injury, all his bigs being freshman for most of the season. Tied for 1st place in Conference not bad. He's proven he has coaching chops and the staff is pretty impressive.
Yet to be determined:-Recruiting: Bakari and Joe sound like nice transfer pick up but yet to be determined. Marcus Golder looks like has some real potential, tbd.
-Recruiting HS: Parker Hazen & Mileek McMillan look like some relatively high upside guys. 2 more scholarships to be determined. Kiser seems nice also.
-Before bigger schools coming poaching they will want to see some postseason success for a few years. Also will need to see consistent regular season success and recruiting success on par with the Drew era.
Overall, I'd say we don't have to start worrying for another 3-4 season unless we see a good postseason run then I'm sure some larger school will start calling for him. Stanford (Coach Lottich's alma mater) just hired a new coach this season and it wasn't great 14–16 (Conf: 6–12). If things don't turn around there and Lottich and we're continuing to have success then thats something to keep an eye on.
We know what Matt had to deal with this year as a rookie coach. Lesser coaches might have caved in. He did quite well getting through the BS he was handed. However, on paper and in the eyes of a lot of people who don't dig too deeply, he did what he did with BD's players (and AP). No major program will look at him until he has a run of good years like Bryce was able to do. But I think he will do that. Five years is my guess. He is a very smart guy. He will take so much from this season and factor that into next year; and the next and the next.
An interesting read if you get a chance.
https://twitter.com/Jim_Connell_NL/status/840722994452389888
Missouri State braces for aftershocks
By: Jim Connell Published 5:31 p.m. CT March 11, 2017
A week after the end of Missouri State's basketball season — and the announcement that coach Paul Lusk will return for his seventh season on the Bears' bench — emotions still are running high among fans.
The hot takes on social media have continued to be shared among fans, boosters, armchair coaches and administrators.
Now that it's finalized who will be coaching the team, one of the key questions that remain is who will be in the seats at JQH Arena to watch the Bears next season.
Director of Athletics Kyle Moats knows there's work to do for his staff to retain ticket-buying fans and reverse a trend of falling season ticket and attendance numbers.
The number of season tickets sold has fallen in each of the last four seasons, going from 2,985 tickets sold in the 2012-13 season to 2,138 in 2016-17. That's a drop of more than 28 percent.
In that same period, attendance has fallen at an even greater rate, down more than 31 percent, from 6,080 per game in 2012-13 to 4,186 this past season.
After a season with so much promise ended last Saturday night with a 17-16 record, another drop in both numbers is a near certainty.
"Best-case scenario is we hold serve, and that probably would be a good thing," Moats said this week. "But we realize the situation."
It's a situation that could cripple an athletics department already facing budget issues.
For lower-level seats, every season ticket that is not renewed costs the athletic department — between seat assessments and the price of the ticket — anywhere from $670 to $2,870 per seat.
There was a decline of 160 season tickets sold from the 2015-16 to the 2016-17 season. Multiply that by $1,250 per seat — a conservative figure — and a similar drop for next season could mean a $200,000 decline in revenue.
A bigger drop, especially in the high-priced seats in the lower level, could mean bigger problems.
That much of a decline, at a time when the department has been ordered to find ways to cut $750,000 in department expenses, spells out how critical this issue is.
"It's always a concern," Moats said. "We want to increase season ticket sales, and we want to have fans excited. It's always a concern.
"If we had 9,000 there, we'd want to get the last 1,000 in there. It's always a concern when we don't have attendance the way we want to have it."
If the thoughts of three longtime and dedicated boosters interviewed this week are any indication, it's a legitimate concern.
......
Give the rest a click/read
http://www.news-leader.com/story/sports/college/msu/2017/03/11/missouri-state-braces-aftershocks/99034246/
Quote from: valpolaw on March 11, 2017, 10:58:52 AMNot sure what thread this belongs in but figured I'd put it here. www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/vanderbilt/2017/03/10/rexrode-vanderbilts-bryce-drew-deserves-credit-ncaa-tournament-bid/99027792/ Bryce is having quite the success in his first season at Vandy. A win today would take them to the SEC championship tomorrow. I sure do miss Bryce. I hope he continues to do well there.
Understandable how that tournament setup isn't fair, but at least Kentucky doesn't have to win the conference title game to go to the NCAA tournament.
I don't think Matt will be going anywhere soon. He had to deal with adversity fairly frequently this year but a lot still remains to be seen on Matt. The next 2-4 years will be crucial for him. Does he continue winning the horizon or do we fall to the middle of the pack?
2016-2017 Vanderbilt Resume
19-15
RPI: 38
Non-Conf SOS: 1
Vs. TOP 25: 4-4
Vs. TOP 50: 6-8
Vs. TOP 100: 11-14
Vs. TOP 150: 15-14
Vs. SUB 150: 4-1
2015-2016 Valpo Resume
24-6
RPI: 49
Non-Conf SOS: 59
Vs. TOP 25: 0-1
Vs. TOP 50: 1-1
Vs. TOP 100: 4-2
Vs. TOP 150: 9-5
Vs. SUB 150: 15-1
I saw some people comparing the two resumes on twitter so figured I would leave this here for discussion.
One of the best and most concise arguments I've seen from a coach ripping the selection committee and the NCAA. Calls them out for screwing smaller schools for the sake of $$ and matchups.
https://twitter.com/FOX19Jeremy/status/837037872721063939
Illinois State coach Dan Muller is absolutely ripping the NCAA and Power Conference schools in the media.
https://twitter.com/DanMuller/status/841273731880218624
https://twitter.com/Kaleb_M_Carter/status/841162647450066944
https://twitter.com/WJBCRedbirds/status/841099662778105857
https://twitter.com/WJBCRedbirds/status/841102725593124864
https://twitter.com/WJBCRedbirds/status/841288946734772224
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 11, 2017, 08:11:08 AMDan Dakich is also good - he has some good stories during the Northwestern-Rutgers blowout on 80's basketball that was fun to listen to.
You no longer exist to me.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 11, 2017, 10:50:29 AMPut an official's shirt on Dan D also...then there would not be any mistakes by a ref because he knows it all/just ask him...if he knows so much like he thinks he does he would not have lost his BGU job, or he would be on a staff somewhere. I have heard that his son was a real jerk(like his Dad)/that's why he was a walk-on at Uof M. Dan's radio show in Indy has been controversial also. He has had to "take back" a number of his comments about people and situations... which is about par for the course for a person who knows it all.
You are my hero!
Dakich Dumbass is the biggest jerk in the world. No questions asked!!
Amen, brother!
Coach Cuonzo Martin just left the Cal job for Mizzou. Potential Valpo impact on recruiting. While Cuonzo was at Cal he offered to Walter Ellis (South Bend) who we are also recruiting.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/walter-ellis
https://twitter.com/iamwalterellis
If I was a parent I wouldn't want my kid playing for him. Switches jobs with a gust of wind. No loyalty in a profession already is un-loyal. Its a bad look.
https://twitter.com/si_ncaabb/status/842105072729391112
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/842105910331899911
Quote from: VU2014 on March 15, 2017, 03:33:45 PM
Coach Cuonzo Martin just left the Cal job for Mizzou. Potential Valpo impact on recruiting. While Cuonzo was at Cal he offered to Walter Ellis (South Bend) who we are also recruiting.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/walter-ellis
https://twitter.com/iamwalterellis
If I was a parent I wouldn't want my kid playing for him. Switches jobs with a gust of wind. No loyalty in a profession already is un-loyal. Its a bad look.
https://twitter.com/si_ncaabb/status/842105072729391112
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/842105910331899911
While it looks like he moves around too much, take a look at each move. From three years at Missouri State to Tennessee? No brainer, every coach makes that move. From Tennessee to Cal? According to many, the situation for Martin at UT was toxic:
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/new-faces-new-places-cuonzo-martin-knew-it-was-time-to-leave-vols/
Seems like a reasonable move given the circumstances. From Cal to Missouri - a chance to come near home. I think many would also make that move. Will he move again in three years? Who knows. My guess would be only for Purdue or the NBA. If it were my son, I'd at least listen to Cuonzo and maybe ask a question or two to see how he handles the questions - salesman or honest man.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 13, 2017, 10:19:19 AM
Illinois State coach Dan Muller is absolutely ripping the NCAA and Power Conference schools in the media.
https://twitter.com/DanMuller/status/841273731880218624
https://twitter.com/Kaleb_M_Carter/status/841162647450066944
https://twitter.com/WJBCRedbirds/status/841099662778105857
https://twitter.com/WJBCRedbirds/status/841102725593124864
https://twitter.com/WJBCRedbirds/status/841288946734772224
I agree with Muller - Wichita St deserved a 5/6 seed, not a 10 seed. I also thought that Illinois St deserved a bid over Providence.
Crean fired at IU, names mentioned in IU circles include Billy Donovan, Greg Marshall, T. Bennett, Miller from Dayton, Steve Alford, Bryce Drew and Greg Tonegel
Some close to the IU program say they have already met with Donovan twice regarding the job
IU waits until NCAA tip off to make the announcement. LOL! What a crew.
Quote from: VU2624 on March 16, 2017, 01:15:18 PM
IU waits until NCAA tip off to make the announcement. LOL! What a crew.
When IU didn't make the tourney and then lost in the 1st round of the NIT, you knew he was doomed and should have been a couple of years ago.
QuoteCrean fired at IU, names mentioned in IU circles include Billy Donovan, Greg Marshall, T. Bennett, Miller from Dayton, Steve Alford, Bryce Drew and Greg Tonegel
-Billy Donovan isn't leaving an NBA job where he doesn't have to recruit or deal with all the boosters bs, unless he's sick of not being contender and realizes he's never going to win an NBA Title with just Russ while we are in the Era of SuperTeams. IU would have to PAY. He's making $3.7M a yr so probably cost them $5M per
-Greg Marshall has been offered $4M to take jobs like UCLA, Texas and others but turned them down. He makes $3.3M at Wichita State right now. It would take more then $4M likely. Greg Marshall is a great coach but his personality is very abrasive and salty and not media friendly, so he may hate the IU media.
-T. Bennett is a real possibility. Apparently University of Illinois is waiting for Virginia to get knocked out the Tourney to drop a near $5M per year offer on him. So there will be a bidding war if he wants to leave.
-Archie Miller is strange. He's apparently turned down quite a few bigger jobs already and he "only" makes $600k. Its fairly well known he wants the OSU job when Thad Matta decides to retire (could be another few years)
-Steve Alford I guess is possible. He may just use IU to get a pay raise from UCLA. I don't think he's a particularly great in game coach. Pretty good recruiter though. I would take the IU job just to get away from Lavar Ball... He has 2 more sons committed to UCLA.
-Bryce Drew: It is so weird to me how much attention he is getting now as opposed to when he was with us. He did a great job with us but now that he's had some success at a larger school NOW people are now taking more notice. He'd be a great get for IU. I hope he doesn't take the job because I don't like IU and I think their fans are obnoxious. Sounds will likely get a bonus because other schools will come calling about him.
-Greg Tonagel? Love Greg (because he's an Valpo Alum) but lets not kid ourselves.
Vandy lost to Northwestern. Close game. Prepare yourself for the media "love-fest" for Northwestern the next couple days...
Quote from: VU2014 on March 16, 2017, 05:47:22 PMVandy lost to Northwestern. Close game. Prepare yourself for the media "love-fest" for Northwestern the next couple days...
Appropriate in my view.
I think Alford has a good thing going at UCLA and will not return to Indiana.
QuoteAppropriate in my view.
Yeah probably, but it gets annoying sometimes. It's a little annoying how much local coverage that get because many of the major media players went to Northwestern's medill school of journalism. It's a good story but I've disliked NU for a few years now.
Back when I was in High School a couple of my buddies and I went to see Butler play Northwestern at Welsh-Ryan Arena, and the Northwestern students were some of the most smug SOBs I've ever met. A lot of looking down of other people's schools because Northwestern has great academics. But during the game the Northwestern student were chanting, "You are going to work for us", towards the Butler traveling fans. Left a really bitter taste in my mouth. Never liked Northwestern ever since... Keep in mind this was the year Butler went to the NCAA Title Game the first time and nobody really knew how good they were. Butler killed them that game.
I have to say it - Chris Collins out coached Bryce Drew today - mistakes like this occur when timeouts are not available
NCAA FACTS: someone may already have mentioned this but what does Texas Southern , Florida State and St. Marys have in common? All Ncaa entries this year that last year came to VU and lost in the NIT.
Quote from: RS on March 16, 2017, 08:27:06 PM
NCAA FACTS: someone may already have mentioned this but what does Texas Southern , Florida State and St. Marys have in common? All Ncaa entries this year that last year came to VU and lost in the NIT.
Is your point that they handled their business? Last year is 1,000 years ago.
Should we consider leaving a scholarship open for next year? Earlier someone mentioned how we missed out on Mr Australia to Boise State, reportedly for lack of a spring scholarship open.
I've been looking at P6 depth charts and it appears 1 or 2 open spots is pretty common. The walk ons become very important at that point for practices. But this NCAA transfer world is not going away anytime soon it would appear. The graduate transfer market is sizable these days as well. This is less dependent on mid season availability though.
I'm really surprised to see the complete lack of conversation about the most awkwardly failed play in NCAA tournament history since Chris Webber's ill advised timeout.
Questions:
- Did Bryce yell for an intentional foul? I was listening to the radio broadcast and the announcers insisted that Bryce was calling for a foul.
- Why did Bryce not have any timeouts left?
- Will Bryce return to Valpo after he is fired in a few weeks?
- Do we want him back?
All valid questions!
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 16, 2017, 10:14:47 PM
I'm really surprised to see the complete lack of conversation about the most awkwardly failed play in NCAA tournament history since Chris Webber's ill advised timeout.
Questions:
- Did Bryce yell for an intentional foul? I was listening to the radio broadcast and the announcers insisted that Bryce was calling for a foul.
- Why did Bryce not have any timeouts left?
- Will Bryce return to Valpo after he is fired in a few weeks?
- Do we want him back?
All valid questions!
Players say different
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18927229/2017-ncaa-tournament-matthew-fisher-davis-vanderbilt-commodores-foul-dumb-mistake (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18927229/2017-ncaa-tournament-matthew-fisher-davis-vanderbilt-commodores-foul-dumb-mistake)
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 16, 2017, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 16, 2017, 10:14:47 PM
I'm really surprised to see the complete lack of conversation about the most awkwardly failed play in NCAA tournament history since Chris Webber's ill advised timeout.
Questions:
- Did Bryce yell for an intentional foul? I was listening to the radio broadcast and the announcers insisted that Bryce was calling for a foul.
- Why did Bryce not have any timeouts left?
- Will Bryce return to Valpo after he is fired in a few weeks?
- Do we want him back?
All valid questions!
Players say different
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18927229/2017-ncaa-tournament-matthew-fisher-davis-vanderbilt-commodores-foul-dumb-mistake (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18927229/2017-ncaa-tournament-matthew-fisher-davis-vanderbilt-commodores-foul-dumb-mistake)
Sometimes ya just have to correct fake news.
Bryce pointed at one of his players(not the guy who committed the foul) and then pointed to Northwestern's point guard. Looked like a "you stop the ballhandler" type situation. I think the other guy saw that, had a mental lapse, and panicked.
Bryce loves to burn his timeouts to stop other teams runs' and regroup his guys. Not a bad strategy sometimes but he finds himself in these situations. The game didn't come down to the time out thing though. I actually just think Northwestern was the better team with the better roster. More holes on the Vandy roster.
That foul was a total mental lapse/brain fart. Was bad, but these things will happen with amateur athletes. Feel for the kid.
Illinois looking at Roger Powell, perhaps? They likely want a proven guy. But Powell seems like a great idea to me.
I heard from people in Illinois that their AD has been given a green light as far as $$ are concerned to get a top caliber coach. However it always seems to get down to the fact that that job is not appealing and not too many people want to go to "the prairie". Time will tell.
QuoteI heard from people in Illinois that their AD has been given a green light as far as $$ are concerned to get a top caliber coach. However it always seems to get down to the fact that that job is not appealing and not too many people want to go to "the prairie". Time will tell.
I disagree. I would say its an appealing job, but it's not an "elite" job. Its still a Top 20-25 job in the nation. Has some history of winning (even though its been 10yrs since much success).
Illinois could become a perennial Top 10 team in the nation with the right coach in charge. Chicago is literally a GOLD MINE of talent. But recruiting the Chicago Public Schools and AAU circuit is an art form. You have to kiss some major @$$ to the Public school coaches and AAU coaches. There are a lot of egos and $ you have to navigate. Lots of the AAU and Public coaches want jobs at the college level and act as agents for for the kids and have a heavy handed influence. The Shoe companies have a lot of poll when you factor that too because they sponsor the AAU teams and basically pay coaches to help steer kids to colleges that wear their gear. So many politics involved. Roger Powell was huge for Valpo in recruiting the Chicago AAU and Public scene when he first got here with Bryce.
Point is that the Illinois could become a powerhouse again with the right coach. Bill Self used the Illinois job to land himself an elite job at Kansas.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 17, 2017, 10:18:40 AM
Illinois looking at Roger Powell, perhaps? They likely want a proven guy. But Powell seems like a great idea to me.
Maybe?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/
|SALT LAKE CITY
Now that Cuonzo Martin is off the table, who's next on the Illinois wish list?
Is there a former Illini player who could garner athletic director Josh Whitman's attention?
It's too bad that Roger Powell Jr. is not further along in his coaching career. At some point, though, Illini decision-makers should keep him in mind ...
"Illinois has my heart," he said Wednesday.
Powell is Bryce Drew's top assistant at Vanderbilt, which faces Northwestern on Thursday in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Powell joined Drew's Valparaiso staff in 2011 after retiring from playing at age 28.
His post-Illini playing career included stints with the Rockford Lightning of the Continental Basketball Association, gigs in Italy, Israel, Spain, France and Germany, and three games with the Utah Jazz in the 2006-07 season. The Jazz play where Thursday's NU-Vanderbilt game will be, a venue now called Vivint Smart Home Arena.
Vanderbilt and Northwestern have Powell's full attention now.
Powell, a native of Joliet, said that despite his Illini ties, he is "excited" for NU.
Shannon Ryan examines candidates that could replace John Groce as Illinois men's basketball coach.
(Shannon Ryan)
"I know those guys," he said of the NU coaches. "I'm good friends with a lot of them. Armon (Gates) and I played AAU together, growing up. We've been really tight. Doug Collins played with my dad at Illinois State, so I grew up going to all the Bulls games. So I knew his son (Chris) a little, but he was older. So it's like full circle, man. It's crazy."
Powell said Drew is great to work for because he "cares about people, loves his players. He not only can relate to players, he plays to their strengths. Making adjustments to make guys feel comfortable, that is something I'm learning. He comes from a basketball family. He just does it naturally."
Powell, 34, has been with Drew six years. In that time, they've never missed postseason play.
Valpo went to two NCAAs, two NITs and a CollegeInsider.com tournament.
And now this season, as Vanderbilt went rose from a 12-13 record on Feb. 11 to make the NCAA tournament at 19-15.
"It is becoming something that's normal," Powell said of postseason tournaments. "It's a blessing."
Quote from: covufan on March 17, 2017, 12:54:32 PMAnd now this season, as Vanderbilt went rose from a 12-13 record on Feb. 11 to make the NCAA tournament at 19-15. "It is becoming something that's normal," Powell said of postseason tournaments. "It's a blessing."
Drew and Powell should send a letter of appreciation to Mike White for not being able to figure out how Florida might beat Vandy in three attempts.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 16, 2017, 11:55:57 AM
Crean fired at IU, names mentioned in IU circles include Billy Donovan, Greg Marshall, T. Bennett, Miller from Dayton, Steve Alford, Bryce Drew and Greg Tonegel
Where do you think Crean will end up? It was interesting that BTN just aired a program on Crean and his personal life in Bloomington including discussion of how his brother-in-laws influenced his coaching style. Better reset and learn how nice Ypsilanti, Terre Haute, Muncie, Oxford-OH, Athens-OH, Normal, etc truly are.
QuoteWhere do you think Crean will end up? It was interesting that BTN just aired a program on Crean and his personal life in Bloomington including discussion of how his brother-in-laws influenced his coaching style. Better reset and learn how nice Ypsilanti, Terre Haute, Muncie, Oxford-OH, Athens-OH, Normal, etc truly are.
I don't think Crean did that bad of a job at IU, especially because the mess Sampson left the program in with sanctions and all. If IU wants to be an elite team again then they need to invest a little more in player facilities and players lodging. It feels ridiculous saying that but its true. Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, etc all have the best of the best housing and practice facilities to land the one and dones. I hate saying that because we would kill to have IU's resources and facilities but its true.
Crean is a good coach, maybe not the greatest in game coach but it is what it is. The guy took Marquette to a Final 4 so lets not trash the guy because he has a good track record previous to IU. No doubt I guess a sweet 16 is disappointing for those fans. He'll land a decent job and he'll take that program to at least a certain level.
Curious, how did they say Jim Harbaugh influenced his coaching style? Harbaugh is super intense on the field and in practice. But is also a great and really fun recruiter.
The media and others should give USC more respect. These guys are showing much grit and characters in their wins and they have a decent shot of upsetting Baylor on Sunday.
Quote from: bbtds on March 17, 2017, 03:34:13 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on March 16, 2017, 11:55:57 AM
Crean fired at IU, names mentioned in IU circles include Billy Donovan, Greg Marshall, T. Bennett, Miller from Dayton, Steve Alford, Bryce Drew and Greg Tonegel
Where do you think Crean will end up? It was interesting that BTN just aired a program on Crean and his personal life in Bloomington including discussion of how his brother-in-laws influenced his coaching style. Better reset and learn how nice Ypsilanti, Terre Haute, Muncie, Oxford-OH, Athens-OH, Normal, etc truly are.
Don't forget Cleveland-OH and Youngstown-OH
Quote from: VU2014 on March 17, 2017, 06:16:34 PM
QuoteWhere do you think Crean will end up? It was interesting that BTN just aired a program on Crean and his personal life in Bloomington including discussion of how his brother-in-laws influenced his coaching style. Better reset and learn how nice Ypsilanti, Terre Haute, Muncie, Oxford-OH, Athens-OH, Normal, etc truly are.
I don't think Crean did that bad of a job at IU, especially because the mess Sampson left the program in with sanctions and all. If IU wants to be an elite team again then they need to invest a little more in player facilities and players lodging. It feels ridiculous saying that but its true. Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, etc all have the best of the best housing and practice facilities to land the one and dones. I hate saying that because we would kill to have IU's resources and facilities but its true.
Crean is a good coach, maybe not the greatest in game coach but it is what it is. The guy took Marquette to a Final 4 so lets not trash the guy because he has a good track record previous to IU. No doubt I guess a sweet 16 is disappointing for those fans. He'll land a decent job and he'll take that program to at least a certain level.
Curious, how did they say Jim Harbaugh influenced his coaching style? Harbaugh is super intense on the field and in practice. But is also a great and really fun recruiter.
Time for John Mellencamp to finance the new Assembly Hall and pro style practice and residential facilities.
Per Crean they hire the best support staff that they can possibly get. Says volumes about the kind of guy Steve McClain is. But it doesn't mean he can win on his own.
QuotePer Crean they hire the best support staff that they can possibly get. Says volumes about the kind of guy Steve McClain is. But it doesn't mean he can win on his own.
McClain was one of IU's top recruiters. He's proven it at UIC.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 17, 2017, 06:16:34 PMCurious, how did they say Jim Harbaugh influenced his coaching style? Harbaugh is super intense on the field and in practice. But is also a great and really fun recruiter.
Maybe it was John Harbaugh who was the influence?
Quote from: VU2014 on March 17, 2017, 06:16:34 PMIf IU wants to be an elite team again then they need to invest a little more in player facilities and players lodging.
I can't talk to the player's lodging/residential facilities, but the Cook Hall practice facility is a state of the art facility.
Quote from: bbtds on March 17, 2017, 07:40:36 PMTime for John Mellencamp to finance the new Assembly Hall and pro style practice and residential facilities.
Assembly Hall was extensively renovated and rededicated just prior to the start of the 2016-2017 season. http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2016/10/13/assembly-hall-renovations-gift-keeps-giving/91889164/ (http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2016/10/13/assembly-hall-renovations-gift-keeps-giving/91889164/)
Living facilities I can understand being a big deal. But I've never understood why a big deal is made out of a practice facility. Duke practices at Cameron Indoor. The issue at a place like Valpo is that 47 other sports/IM/events/bake sales are held in the arena. I can remember Homer being very frustrated about this over the years.
Quote from: FWalum on March 17, 2017, 11:43:46 PMAssembly Hall was extensively renovated and rededicated just prior to the start of the 2016-2017 season. http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2016/10/13/assembly-hall-renovations-gift-keeps-giving/91889164/
Well, then John M needs to dig a little deeper because IU is not an elite program anymore. I bet if Mellenhead gave free concerts every weekend that might turn a few athlete's heads. :-[
Mellencamp has already given TONS of $$ for the IU football practice facility. Facilities are not the problem at IU...recruiting the right people is the key. Crean had Farrell for 4 years and never had recruited a solid replacement. The kid from Pitt was a 1 year deal and he wasn't anything special...after all, he did come from Pitt.
Is it me or has basketball in Indiana dropped in prestige the past 20 years? Could it have anything to do with the multiple classes they added for the high school playoffs? Right now I am not sure that the Indiana coaching job is one of most prestigious in the US. I know this is blasphomy for many on this board, but it may be reality.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2017, 10:17:49 AM
Is it me or has basketball in Indiana dropped in prestige the past 20 years? Could it have anything to do with the multiple classes they added for the high school playoffs? Right now I am not sure that the Indiana coaching job is one of most prestigious in the US. I know this is blasphomy for many on this board, but it may be reality.
There's 300 different high school divisions in every state now, so I'm not sure that's it, but you're right about it dropping.
On espn's recruiting database...
2012:
11 ESPN100 recruits (including Gary Harris, GRIII, Yogi, McGary, Hammons)
2 5-star
9 4-star
3 3-star
15 2-star
3 1-star (including Spike Albrecht)
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2012/view/state/order/true/state/indiana
2016:
1 ESPN100 recruit
1 5-star
2 4-star
8 3-star
11 total entries
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2016/view/state/order/true/state/indiana
And next year there's only 11 entries... And Valpo has their 7th rated recruit!
But beyond the talent, IU isn't recruiting Indy like it did in the past. Teams like Butler and Xavier can compete with IU in recruiting now that they're in the Big East.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2017, 10:17:49 AM
Is it me or has basketball in Indiana dropped in prestige the past 20 years? Could it have anything to do with the multiple classes they added for the high school playoffs? Right now I am not sure that the Indiana coaching job is one of most prestigious in the US. I know this is blasphomy for many on this board, but it may be reality.
The power is shifting in the B1G to the point where Illinois has obsoleted itself and IU has only kept serve. IU was not a dream job back when Crean took over either, just like ND football coach is not as attractive as it once was. Top 20 jobs, absolutely. But their fan base think they are THE TOP JOB. I respectfully disagree.
TV programming and availability of games online have taken the prestige from some of these high end programs as well. It's diluted the product because the supply chain is more numerous than just ABC, NBC and CBS. I remember the days where I was forced to watch only the top programs on TV....those days are gone.
Quote from: a3uge on March 18, 2017, 11:35:33 AM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2017, 10:17:49 AM
Is it me or has basketball in Indiana dropped in prestige the past 20 years? Could it have anything to do with the multiple classes they added for the high school playoffs? Right now I am not sure that the Indiana coaching job is one of most prestigious in the US. I know this is blasphomy for many on this board, but it may be reality.
There's 300 different high school divisions in every state now, so I'm not sure that's it, but you're right about it dropping.
On espn's recruiting database...
2012:
11 ESPN100 recruits (including Gary Harris, GRIII, Yogi, McGary, Hammons)
2 5-star
9 4-star
3 3-star
15 2-star
3 1-star (including Spike Albrecht)
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2012/view/state/order/true/state/indiana
2016:
1 ESPN100 recruit
1 5-star
2 4-star
8 3-star
11 total entries
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2016/view/state/order/true/state/indiana
And next year there's only 11 entries... And Valpo has their 7th rated recruit!
But beyond the talent, IU isn't recruiting Indy like it did in the past. Teams like Butler and Xavier can compete with IU in recruiting now that they're in the Big East.
Very good point. Since Butler has emerged as a (semi?) major IU has been no where near as successful in the Central Indiana/Indy area for recruiting. Purdue has probably been the most successful in general but there is very little loyalty anymore to the home state.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 18, 2017, 11:36:34 AMThe power is shifting in the B1G to the point where Illinois has obsoleted itself and IU has only kept serve. IU was not a dream job back when Crean took over either, just like ND football coach is not as attractive as it once was. Top 20 jobs, absolutely. But their fan base think they are THE TOP JOB. I respectfully disagree. TV programming and availability of games online have taken the prestige from some of these high end programs as well. It's diluted the product because the supply chain is more numerous than just ABC, NBC and CBS. I remember the days where I was forced to watch only the top programs on TV....those days are gone.
I agree and the IU fans who believe such are delusional.
So Brad Underwood goes from SFA to OSU to Illinois in two seasons. I'm pretty sure he didn't even recruit last years OSU guys. What a racket. :lol:
I may be alone here but I go not think I could have watched another Northwestern game in this tourney. Their coverage was over the top and tiresome.
No it wasn't. There's clearly some regional envy with NW.
Northwestern also got completely hosed on the two goaltending calls. 7 point swing.
Quote from: VU2624 on March 18, 2017, 07:02:22 PM
No it wasn't. There's clearly some regional envy with NW.
Northwestern also got completely hosed on the two goaltending calls. 7 point swing.
Wisconsin had a couple bad calls at the end, but they manned up, their coach didn't walk on the court, and they erased a 7 point deficit to win the game. One bad call with 5 minutes left shouldn't have that much impact on the game.
Quote from: a3uge on March 18, 2017, 07:19:31 PMQuote from: VU2624 on March 18, 2017, 07:02:22 PMNo it wasn't. There's clearly some regional envy with NW. Northwestern also got completely hosed on the two goaltending calls. 7 point swing.
Wisconsin had a couple bad calls at the end, but they manned up, their coach didn't walk on the court, and they erased a 7 point deficit to win the game. One bad call with 5 minutes left shouldn't have that much impact on the game.
It was 2 bad calls on the same type of call and it can have a lot of impact on the game particularly when they were trying to fight from behind. Good for Wisconsin. They caught Nova in a game they didn't play particularly well.
As an aside, who seeded these teams. Minnesota was a 5 and Wisconsin was an 8?
The officiating in the northwestern-gonzags game was absolutely brutal. I would be surprised if Gonzaga makes the final 4.
USC upsets that high moral school in Waco tomorrow. fight on!!!!!!!!
Quote from: VU2624 on March 18, 2017, 07:56:50 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 18, 2017, 07:19:31 PMQuote from: VU2624 on March 18, 2017, 07:02:22 PMNo it wasn't. There's clearly some regional envy with NW. Northwestern also got completely hosed on the two goaltending calls. 7 point swing.
Wisconsin had a couple bad calls at the end, but they manned up, their coach didn't walk on the court, and they erased a 7 point deficit to win the game. One bad call with 5 minutes left shouldn't have that much impact on the game.
It was 2 bad calls on the same type of call and it can have a lot of impact on the game particularly when they were trying to fight from behind. Good for Wisconsin. They caught Nova in a game they didn't play particularly well.
As an aside, who seeded these teams. Minnesota was a 5 and Wisconsin was an 8?
Maybe the selection committee should get replaced if they are in wrong in their seeding by more than 5.
QuoteMaybe the selection committee should get replaced if they are in wrong in their seeding by more than 5.
The Committee knows that are getting it wrong. Selection Committee doesn't care if they screw up the seedings.
The Committee knew exactly what they were doing when they put Vandy vs Northwestern in the 1st rnd and Dayton vs Wichita State. They put these match ups together and could careless about seeds.
Pretty much everyone knew it was a joke that Minnesota was a 5 seed competing going up against Middle Tennessee. That match up met their quota of having one 12 seed beating a 5. Just so many obvious examples of the committee ignoring the criteria of seeding and picking teams to get into the Tourney.
They are not going to get rid of/replace the Tournament Selection Committee because they don't have to answer anyone about their decisions. The only way the Select Committee gets replaced is if someone uncovered provable fraud in the process and public pressure was applied to create a new system.
https://twitter.com/CBSSportsCBB/status/843615193620013062
USC played their hearts out and fell just short. Bummer
https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/844009176749752322
p5 conferences will take the mid major coaches but won't schedule them. I think that should be part of the contract. They have to play the mid major at their place for two years.
Thats what Valpo did :thumbsup:
Quote from: M on March 21, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
Thats what Valpo did :thumbsup:
It's time to put the pressure on Scott. He's a Butler grad for gosh sakes! We need to schedule Baylor.
QuoteWe need to schedule Baylor.
Maybe not schedule next season but the following year. I'm not sure Scott wants to schedule us...
An interesting move... Moving from the MAAC to the A10 is a conference upgrade and may be more behind the scene factors for this move. Maybe The Monmouth AD/University wasn't showing the commitment.
Duquesne has be pretty bad to barely mediocre at best for the last 15yrs or at least ever since I've personally been following college basketball. Been a bottom dweller in the A10. Great hire by Duquense and a big blow to the Monmouth program.
https://twitter.com/PghSportsNow/status/844003834548666373
Edit:
Maybe he's not leaving?
https://twitter.com/Joshua_Newman/status/844286607196852224
Recovering from surgery, I have watched more than my share of basketball. Here some ramblings to share and discuss...
1. I do not watch a lot of Big 10 basketball, but Caleb Swanigan of Purdue is a complete stud and the best player I have seen in the tournament. He reminds me a lot of Mark Aguirre when he was at DePaul - nice touch from the inside and outside, great high post play, big frame and butt which provides real estate to drive. I was also impressed by how he gets Haus into the game.
2. The 2 best games I watched in my opinion were Iowa state - Purdue and USC - Baylor. All 4 teams played very well and the flow of the games were excellent. Purdue in the first half was outstanding and pretty much played perfect basketball - then Iowa State put on a tremendous run and Purdue squeaked it out. USC played their hearts out and have serious talent for years to come, but Baylor's depth And Scott Drew's decision to go small for the final 8 minutes won it. If Purdue plays like they did on Saturday against Kansas, they will win and make the final four.
3. I am not impressed with Gonzaga. Heck, all the effort "niceties" aside, northwestern did not play well and could have won. West Virginia will beat them, and if not Arizona will.
4. But... I would take the current Vegas odds on Xavier winning it all. The payback would be huge and I don't think it is out of reality that it is possible.
5. UCLA is fun to watch. They are not consistent, but when they are on a roll - wow. They won decisively over a great Cincy. Ball is a freak. The Kentucky game is one for the ages.
6. Purdue - Michigan in the regional final.
7. In an even bet, I would give you any 2 teams to win it all if you gave me the remaining 14.
usc4valpo - I hope that you are recovering well from your surgery.
I will admit that I have not seen as much of Purdue as you seem to have. I agree that Swanigan is a stud, but the matchup with him playing the four against Kansas will have him covering Jackson and vice versa. Jackson is way more athletic than Swanigan. Perhaps Purdue can switch to zone, but I don't see Swanigan being able to chase Jackson. Jackson holding his own on the inside against Swanigan is probably more likely than Swanigan being able to cover a guard. Pace of play in this game will mean everything - if there is a fair amount of open court play, Kansas wins. If it is mainly a half court game and Kansas doesn't shoot well, Purdue has a chance.
84v2 - thanks for you thoughts. recovery is going well so far.
Good point about Kansas - huowever, I am just waiting for their annual collapse. Purdue definitely needs to set the tempo to win.
Can you imagine a UCLA-Kansas matchup? Get the popcorn ready for that!
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 21, 2017, 04:43:22 PM
Recovering from surgery, I have watched more than my share of basketball. Here some ramblings to share and discuss...
1. I do not watch a lot of Big 10 basketball, but Caleb Swanigan of Purdue is a complete stud and the best player I have seen in the tournament. He reminds me a lot of Mark Aguirre when he was at DePaul - nice touch from the inside and outside, great high post play, big frame and butt which provides real estate to drive. I was also impressed by how he gets Haus into the game.
2. The 2 best games I watched in my opinion were Iowa state - Purdue and USC - Baylor. All 4 teams played very well and the flow of the games were excellent. Purdue in the first half was outstanding and pretty much played perfect basketball - then Iowa State put on a tremendous run and Purdue squeaked it out. USC played their hearts out and have serious talent for years to come, but Baylor's depth And Scott Drew's decision to go small for the final 8 minutes won it. If Purdue plays like they did on Saturday against Kansas, they will win and make the final four.
3. I am not impressed with Gonzaga. Heck, all the effort "niceties" aside, northwestern did not play well and could have won. West Virginia will beat them, and if not Arizona will.
4. But... I would take the current Vegas odds on Xavier winning it all. The payback would be huge and I don't think it is out of reality that it is possible.
5. UCLA is fun to watch. They are not consistent, but when they are on a roll - wow. They won decisively over a great Cincy. Ball is a freak. The Kentucky game is one for the ages.
6. Purdue - Michigan in the regional final.
7. In an even bet, I would give you any 2 teams to win it all if you gave me the remaining 14.
Watching Michigan play twice, man they are good and for real.
The "team of destiny" thing gets overplayed all the time in sports, but man, Michigan sure has that feel to them right now.
There could not have been a more "homer" gym than Hilltop. I thought that place gave us an automatic 10-12 points a game. And then we seemed to always hire "homer" refs. As I remember many of those home games were the worst as far as officiating goes. I'll bet that visiting teams hated to play there. Those rivalries vs. Evansville, Butler, St. Joe,etc. usually were fun games to watch.
The Lonzo Ball - Lavar Ball - LaBron James issue is getting way out of hand.
QuoteThe Lonzo Ball - Lavar Ball - LeBron James issue is getting way out of hand.
You know your really out of line when the majority of people agree with LeBron...
LaVarr is just saying outlandish stuff to get media attention for his "Big Ballers" "Brand". Lonzo is the only kid the family looks to be a real stud "one & done" type player. The thing LaVarr doesn't realize is that not all PR is good PR for young "brands". Your brand needs to be at least likable to appeal to the masses.
QuoteI thought that place gave us an automatic 10-12 points a game. And then we seemed to always hire "homer" refs.
Don't know if it was home-court refs or the fact that fans sitting in the second or third row could lean forward and let an official have it just inches from their ears when they stood on the sidelines.
And even if it gave us an extra 10-12 points per game, it still wasn't enough. :)
(That said, I remember us rarely losing to Butler there, and I remember us always rising up once or twice per season to beat some "better" teams no matter how sorry we were back then: St. Louis, Illinois State, a really good Dick Versace-coached Bradley team, and Air Force. We always played Air Force for some reason).
In 1983 Valpo played Bradley and killed them in a high free throw shooting affair. Bradley brought only 8 or 9 players and had to play 4 on the court at the no of the game.
SLU was awful back then, nothing like they were today.
I don't think Valpo ever beat Illinois St.
What did I just watch? :crazy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_w-XcKlA4
Wow that is a show I cannot miss! I will make sure I record this as well as Dance Moms!
Kansas is playing, well, like Kansas tonight. So much for the wise upset prediction...
In the history of the NCAA tournament, an 11 seed (this year Xavier) has met a 1 seed (this year Gonzaga) only six times in the elite 8. Both seeded teams have won three times. Not many data points, but.....................
http://rotoguru2.com/hoop/mad/seedwl.html
Arizona cannot reac the Final Four - again. I am sure Sean Miller is taking a lot of grief.
In the meantime, Bill Murray is having one helluva 12 months. Cool story.
The fan and media reviews are not great. Sort of a puzzling hire. He use to be the Head Coach of Western Kentucky and Georgia. He won a SEC Tourney in 08'.
https://twitter.com/CSU_Athletics/status/845274370738139136
https://twitter.com/dcassilo/status/845281839552086016
https://twitter.com/bobmcdonald/status/845287064824401920
https://twitter.com/pronkville08/status/845251236555362304
https://twitter.com/pronkville08/status/845251156444151808
Feel bad for Duquesne fans. Seems like nobody wants that job...
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/845343137912537088
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/845362448169250816
During the Baylor vs South Carolina Broadcast.... 😂😂😂
https://twitter.com/brickies2010/status/845442549934424065
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2017, 08:31:47 PMDuring the Baylor vs South Carolina Broadcast.... 😂😂😂 https://twitter.com/brickies2010/status/845442549934424065
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2017, 08:31:47 PMDuring the Baylor vs South Carolina Broadcast.... 😂😂😂 https://twitter.com/brickies2010/status/845442549934424065
Felt bad for Verne. He was obviously getting some bad info on the shot.
They did correct it later.
Some talk on college basketball radio of Xavier's Chris Mack getting the Indiana job.
I thought Uncle Verne was retiring. But the SEC still needs his love.
Anyway, here is my moronic assessment from last night.
1. Butler vs. North Carolina was over about 10 minutes into the game. 3's were popping all about for the baby blue, and they kept the fast tempo of the game. There was no way Butler was going to recover from a 10 plus point deficit.
2. Speaking of tempo, that was a big factor in that game and in the UCLA Kentucky matchup. More on that coming up.
3. Berry for North Carolina was fantastic. Meeks and North Carolina's rebounding effort was impressive and limited possessions for Butler. Also, and yes It is obvious, the talent level and depth of North Carolina was apparent.
4. I did not refer to North Carolina as "Carolina" for obvious reasons.
5. As for South Carolina, yes their defense was outstanding. Yes, Martin is an excellent and under appreciated coach. Yes they should be favored to beat Florida. However...Baylor was complete crapola last night and played like clowns. Drew did a terrible job adjusting and the team was very frustrated.
6. On the other hand, why do so many people, particularly Big 12 fans, dislike Drew and refer to him as corrupt and "a weasel"? Is there jealousy over his accomplishments? On the other hand, can Baylor ever get over the top and get to the Final Four with Scott Drew? He has been at Baylor for while and elevated the basketball program, but you have big dollar alums who want more. Baylor athletics, football obviously more so than other sports, requires some soul searching.
7. Did the UCLA - Kentucky game meet the hype? I think yes, but DeAaron Fox was the superstar last night, not Lonzo Ball. Monk and Fox were phenomenal and wonderful to watch. However, I think the big issue was that Kentucky kept the tempo to their game and played good defense compared to UCLA. Ball was disappointing and in the second half seemed a little disengaged.
8. The south regions had North Carolina, Kentucky and UCLA - great tournament seeding. North Carolina vs Kentucky is must see basketball TV.
9. Alford to Indiana?
10. The Charles Barkley- Samuel L. Jackson - Spike Lee Capital One commercials are wonderful . Good to see Gloria Gaynor back.
11. Kansas, Xavier, South Carolina, Kentucky
Latest word is that Archie Miller from Dayton is the new IU coach.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/845675302210617344
I'm actually happy Indiana didn't land Chris Mack from Xavier. Chris Mack has more recruiting ties to the State and I'd imagine if he took the IU job he'd double down on recruiting Indiana which may hurt Valpo who seems to recruiting Indiana more in the last 2 years. Generally we are not fishing for the same talent but it just creates more competition.
Either way I think they made a great hire. Feel really bad for Dayton fans. Dayton has been one of the elite MidMajor programs the last 4-6 years under Archie. Never like to see a fellow Mid lose its coach.
Archie Miller is an excellent choice
Anyone else expecting news this coming week on Kiser? Coach said he was taking a few days off after that crazy season, understood. But here we are coming up on two weeks on Tuesday.
I'm betting we hear something by Friday. Kiser likely knows....guessing VU will do a nice little announcement soon.
P.S. There wasn't a write-up on the VU athletics website for Markus Golder (I now understand signing day will probably bring about this write-up). Hope Kiser gets one too.
QuoteAnyone else expecting news this coming week on Kiser? Coach said he was taking a few days off after that crazy season, understood. But here we are coming up on two weeks on Tuesday.
I'm betting we hear something by Friday. Kiser likely knows....guessing VU will do a nice little announcement soon.
P.S. There wasn't a write-up on the VU athletics website for Markus Golder (I now understand signing day will probably bring about this write-up). Hope Kiser gets one too.
I wouldn't be too worried about it. No write up on Golder because he hasn't signed his 'letter of intent' yet and is unable too till April 12th which is signing day. Check out Golders twitter page: https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3 His headline on twitter is announcing his commitment to Valpo.
I don't expect Kiser to officially be given a scholarship till after all the HS signing period ends and when the transfer market slows down. Coach Lottich & the Coaching staff may have taken a few days off but I believe they have been keeping tabs on the transfer market and we know that the Valpo has reached out to Ryan Fazekas (local product/formerly attended Providence) and are recruiting him to Valpo. Fingers crossed he chooses Valpo.
Once the transfer market gets addressed I believe we are likely to see if Kiser gets a scholarship. Seems likely to happen. I don't see anymore HS recruits signing with Valpo for class of 2017. Most likely is a transfer and a scholarship for Kiser if I had to guess.
When I watch Gonzaga and their center Karnovski, he reminds me of Curly disguised as Bustoff in the 3 Stooges Grips, Grunts and Groans episode.
the way my picks go, just assume the opposite result.
So Kansas won each of their first 3 games by at least 20 points. They looked unstoppable against Purdue, was playing well! They face Oregon, who is one starter down, squeaking out wins, and Kansas more or less has a home game! Then, Bell for Duckzilla was an unstoppable chairman on the boards. Oregon was outstanding last night.
South Carolina and Xavier, two of the last teams in, making runs in the tourney is going to continue keeping mid majors out and awarding that spot to the middling big conference schools
Quote from: elephtheria47 on March 26, 2017, 11:31:59 AM
South Carolina and Xavier, two of the last teams in, making runs in the tourney is going to continue keeping mid majors out and awarding that spot to the middling big conference schools
Point taken. Still only matters how much $$ the NCAA can make without looking the fool. More attendance and bigger tv audience runs the tournament.
Anyone have the data on the tournament during the (2) Butler runs? Better NIELSEN ratings or what?
Well, some of the final teams from major conferences that got in did well. South Carolina, xavier, the real USC - give them props.
It looks like the Horizon League has lost a broadcast partner. The American Sports Network is shutting down at the end of the month
South Carolina is a 7 seed. Far from being one of the last teams in.
Quote from: vusupporter on March 26, 2017, 07:01:57 PMSouth Carolina is a 7 seed. Far from being one of the last teams in.
Two 1's, a 3 and a 7. Not all that unusual.
When the brackets were released, I thought the possible North Carolina - Kentucky match-up could be the best of the tournament, might even be worthy of being the championship game, and I wished they wouldn't meet until then. I picked North Carolina in a tight contest, and it couldn't have been much closer. It will be difficult for the Final Four pairings to top today's game.
Everyone is making a huge deal about a kid from UNC going to class the next morning after the game. Seriously?
UNC flew directly home after the game on a private jet. Am I the only one who thinks its ridiculous the amount of praise this kid is getting?
So many jokes to be made about UNC student-athlete "classes"? UNC has their new poster child I guess.
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/846363843882352640
I don't know what is more embarrassing. LeBron's acting or the announcer trying to make excuses for him... This is one of the reasons people struggling to root for him. So Soft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boqYkzkIvP4
How Lebron James was SI's Sportsman of the year over the Chicago Cubs (undoubtedly the team of the year is beyond me. With a safety on the lapel of LeBron's suit on the SI cover, you have to wonder if it was a political motive.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 28, 2017, 07:27:25 AM
How Lebron James was SI's Sportsman of the year over the Chicago Cubs (undoubtedly the team of the year is beyond me. With a safety on the lapel of LeBron's suit on the SI cover, you have to wonder if it was a political motive.
I don't agree that the Chicago Cubs are "undoubtedly" the team of the year. You have your opinion, I have mine.
https://twitter.com/Catch_N_Shoot/status/846907862546812929
Interesting, and just curious, considering it was a team that broke a 108 year drought, who would be the team of the year?
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 28, 2017, 09:32:48 PM
Interesting, and just curious, considering it was a team that broke a 108 year drought, who would be the team of the year?
Just because you were bad previously and you suddenly finally win a title that many other teams have won before doesn't make you the team of the year. Maybe if the Cubs keep winning that will be a story but right now all they have done is won one World Series.
Don't gripe at me about the decision. SI made that decision. I just happen to agree with it for the reason I mentioned above. The world didn't end because the Cubs won
one WS. It's a regional thing and only Cubs fans truly think that way.
considering that the Cubs championship made world news, I cannot think of a team more deserving.
And I am a White Sox fan!
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 28, 2017, 09:45:57 PM
considering that the Cubs championship made world news, I cannot think of a team more deserving.
It only made news because they were so bad before. I just don't agree. It's your opinion---not obvious. It's simply my opinion that there is nothing too special about the Cubs. If not for a rain storm they wouldn't have won anything.
I respect but don't agree what you are say. no problem - I just thought the selection for LeBron James was PC.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 29, 2017, 06:14:54 AM
I respect but don't agree what you are say. no problem - I just thought the selection for LeBron James was PC.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's PC, but I would call it lazy.
I am cool about debate and conflict, just avoid being Kentucky fans
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/847287525966139392
Quote from: VU2014 on March 29, 2017, 11:53:54 PM
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/847287525966139392
Does Dayton rank that much higher than Illinois State? This would seem like more of a lateral move for Dan Muller. If it is a higher move then only a slight bit higher.
Quote from: bbtds on March 30, 2017, 07:09:29 AM
Does Dayton rank that much higher than Illinois State? This would seem like more of a lateral move for Dan Muller. If it is a higher move then only a slight bit higher.
I'd say yes. Dayton has an Elite 8 and a Sweet 16 in the last 4 years ... Illinois State hasn't even been to the tournament since 1998.
https://twitter.com/SBNationCBB/status/847472556386820103
Would you pay Big $ to go to the Final 4 when your view would be this? I would personally take a hard pass. What an awful view for the game. I get wanting to make as much $ as possible but this is ridiculous.
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/847480184190058503
I was at the Final Four awhile back Indy, and it is much more of an event than it is to see the game. Many will watch from the big screens, but then they can have a sense that they are there.
Yesterday's New York Times featured an article outlining the academic dishonesty at the University of North Carolina. It is difficult to watch the North Carolina team play unscathed and unpunished in the Final Four while Jubril was suspended basically for his senior year in conference play. On the CBS broadcast tonight the announcers minimized the academic situation at North Carolina. However, here is an excerpt from the Times article:
3,100 students had received one or more semesters of lousy instruction and that poor work found reward in high grades. Student athletes, particularly those from the "revenue sports" — basketball and football — were steered to these poor or nonexistent courses, and in some cases, they were told they could sleep in class.
Many shared in the dirty secrets.
"Beyond those university personnel who were aware of red flags," Wainstein wrote, "there were a large number among the Chapel Hill faculty, deans and athletics personnel, who knew that there were easy-grading classes with little rigor."
"Little rigor" is a term of art that begs for definition.
Wainstein asked three outside experts to look at a sample of class papers. They found that in 40 percent of the papers, one-quarter or more of the content was plagiarized. The average grade for those papers was close to an A-minus.
The entire article can be found at the following: [size=78%]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/sports/ncaabasketball/north-carolina-final-four-cheating-fake-classes.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fsports&action=click&contentCollection=sports®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/sports/ncaabasketball/north-carolina-final-four-cheating-fake-classes.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fsports&action=click&contentCollection=sports®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront)[/size]
Quote from: valpopal on April 01, 2017, 09:39:00 PM
Yesterday's New York Times featured an article outlining the academic dishonesty at the University of North Carolina. It is difficult to watch the North Carolina team play unscathed and unpunished in the Final Four while Jubril was suspended basically for his senior year in conference play. On the CBS broadcast tonight the announcers minimized the academic situation at North Carolina. However, here is an excerpt from the Times article:
3,100 students had received one or more semesters of lousy instruction and that poor work found reward in high grades. Student athletes, particularly those from the "revenue sports" — basketball and football — were steered to these poor or nonexistent courses, and in some cases, they were told they could sleep in class.
Many shared in the dirty secrets.
"Beyond those university personnel who were aware of red flags," Wainstein wrote, "there were a large number among the Chapel Hill faculty, deans and athletics personnel, who knew that there were easy-grading classes with little rigor."
"Little rigor" is a term of art that begs for definition.
Wainstein asked three outside experts to look at a sample of class papers. They found that in 40 percent of the papers, one-quarter or more of the content was plagiarized. The average grade for those papers was close to an A-minus.
The entire article can be found at the following: [size=78%]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/sports/ncaabasketball/north-carolina-final-four-cheating-fake-classes.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fsports&action=click&contentCollection=sports®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/sports/ncaabasketball/north-carolina-final-four-cheating-fake-classes.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fsports&action=click&contentCollection=sports®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront)[/size]
This really irks me also. UNC should have been barred from participation and the NCAA's double standards regarding revenue exposed. I guess because it wasn't a "sex" scandal that no sanctions need be applied.
If they win it tonight and the "investigation" returns a verdict of a punishable offense (NCAA probation? Loss of scholarships?) might they have to vacate the national championship win?
Conversely, if Valpo had continued to play JA while the investigation was taking place, might the penalty have been a going forward kind of thing rather than retroactive? Who the hell knows because there is absolutely no consistency. It's pretty obvious UNC isn't worried about anything retroactive.
What a bizarre spectacle of poor administration by sports officials we are witnessing across the sports world lately! I am not sure which is worse (both are equally bad, perhaps), the NCAA looking the other way and ignoring the evidence of academic dishonesty at North Carolina while allowing them to play for the national championship or the LPGA stripping a player of her major championship because of an e-mail from a television viewer.
Amen! brother.
Patrick Ewing is going to be the next Head Coach of Georgetown.
https://twitter.com/ESPNU/status/848967058935230464
BIG name. But can he recruit and coach college kids? I don't believe he has any head coaching experience.
Interesting observations from the Washington Post....
"The Georgetown legend came to an agreement to succeed John Thompson III as the program's head coach after meeting with school officials in Washington Monday. Ewing, 54, was in town with the Charlotte Hornets, for whom he currently works as associate head coach.
The Hornets play the Washington Wizards Tuesday night at Verizon Center, but Ewing is expected to leave the job in short order to begin the process of filling out his staff at Georgetown, as he attempts to revive the stagnant program he helped build into a national power as a player 30-plus years ago.
The hire is a sign that John Thompson II remains a powerful force within the school. There was little doubt Ewing would take this job if he didn't have the blessing of the elder Thompson, for whom he played during a collegiate career that included three Final Fours – including the 1984 national championship – from 1982-85. Ewing went on to a Hall of Fame NBA career once the New York Knicks made him the top overall pick in the 1985 NBA draft.
Ewing's son, Patrick Ewing Jr., served on John Thompson III's staff as an assistant coach the last two seasons.
For the past 15 years, the elder Ewing has become a well-respected NBA assistant, serving on the staffs of Jeff and Stan Van Gundy with the Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic before joining Clifford's staff in Charlotte. He's been interviewed for multiple NBA jobs, including for the Sacramento Kings vacancy last summer."
Ewing just hasn't been given the opportunity. Bill Cartwright found the same issue when he was looking to become a head coach. Is there a big guy bias?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-big-men-usually-cant-coach-basketball-1402007079?KEYWORDS=chris+herring (https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-big-men-usually-cant-coach-basketball-1402007079?KEYWORDS=chris+herring)
Did anyone feel, as I did, that Mark Few's comment at the conclusion of the National Championship game was meant as a knock on North Carolina and the NCAA? He said his players were true students and athletes. The opposite could be concluded about the opposition.
The second half was certainly not a thing of beauty. Both teams shot around 35 percent, although the aggressive defense can attest to test. I felt bad for Karnowski who struggled offensively last night.
What will happen to UNC after the investigations are concluded?
Quote from: bbtds on April 03, 2017, 11:51:39 PM
Did anyone feel, as I did, that Mark Few's comment at the conclusion of the National Championship game was meant as a knock on North Carolina and the NCAA? He said his players were true students and athletes. The opposite could be concluded about the opposition.
Yeah, the final result: Academic Frauds 71 Good Guys 65 >:(
USAToday Headline: "Redemption: NC Takes Down Gonzaga." Redemption? Redemption! Redemption is fessing up to widespread cheating by UNC athletes under the hands-off policies of the UNC administration -- and the redemption I'm talking about is for everyone they played, not UNC -- i.e., vacated UNC wins (including this one). They shouldn't have even been in the tournament.
Gee, do you suppose this whole mess is gonna embolden the rest of the P5/6 to do the same thing knowing that maybe, just maybe, a slap on the wrist might, but probably won't, be the only consequences? But if a mid-major has even one athlete cheat or do something contrary to the NCAA bible -- throw the damn book at him. Gotta come back to Tark's quote (updated): "The NCAA is so mad at
Kentucky North Carolina that they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation." Well, at least the HL gets a little exposure.
BTW, glad to hear Emmert get booed when introduced prior to the awarding of the trophy.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 04, 2017, 06:46:38 AM
The second half was certainly not a thing of beauty. Both teams shot around 35 percent, although the aggressive defense can attest to test. I felt bad for Karnowski who struggled offensively last night.
What will happen to UNC after the investigations are concluded?
That was a rhetorical question, right? The answer is NUTHIN.
How has Gonzaga been able to keep Few? Does anyone know anything about his contract?
Loyalty, his faith is compatible to Gonzaga, living in beautiful Spokane, probably job security.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 04, 2017, 08:09:28 AM
How has Gonzaga been able to keep Few? Does anyone know anything about his contract?
Mark Few has talked about how his Dad was a pastor and stayed at the church for 30-40 years and says he never left because he was happy. So he has pretty much said you can't put a number on happiness.
Like, usc4valpo said Loyalty. Hard to put a number on that. Mark Few will never get fired from that job ever. He's making a $1.5M which is a big number but not close to what the other elite coaches make. He knows if he left for a Kansas or something and was making $3-4M and he wasn't getting off to get a quick start and performing up to expectations then he'd be on the hot seat immediately.
Look at Shaka Smart. He left VCU for Texas and Smart is already on the hot seat down there only after 2 years. Lots of unhappy boosters/fans down there. If Shaka would have stayed at VCU he probably could have been the "king" of that school for another 20-30 years as long as they continue getting to Sweet 16s there. He had resource he could have ever wanted at VCU also. They built him new facilities and had a very faithful fan base.
Sometimes its hard to put a number on Loyalty and Happiness, especially when you are still making a very good living at $1.5M per year.
QuoteLook at Shaka Smart. He left VCU for Texas and Smart is already on the hot seat down there only after 2 years. Lots of unhappy boosters/fans down there. If Shaka would have stayed at VCU he probably could have been the "king" of that school for another 20-30 years as long as they continue getting to Sweet 16s there. He had resource he could have ever wanted at VCU also. They built him new facilities and had a very faithful fan base.
Sometimes its hard to put a number on Loyalty and Happiness, especially when you are still making a very good living at $1.5M per year.
This is absolutely true - as someone who once made a career move based on salary and ended up regretting it, I can vouch for this principle.
That said, on the flipside, this is a different ball of wax. Coaches have a limited window to make money. Making a move to a P5 job is setting your children and heck, your grandchildren, up financially for life. Further, even if you get canned in 3 years, you still leave with that money, and a guy like Smart is still young enough to be in demand for any number of good mid-major openings where you can "find your happy place" while sitting on a giant pile of money. Unless you were an absolute disaster in the P5 job, you'll almost always have an opportunity to return to the midmajor level.
Look, if Valpo couldn't keep a hometown guy/alum/former player who is likely the person most indelibly linked to the school in people's minds, who also happens to be independently wealthy from his NBA playing days, to turn down the immense financial and on-the-court benefits of a P5 job, what chance does any other midmajor have of doing the same?
(Or to use a more recent example, Archie Miller was making seven figures at Dayton, where they operate as a major program in every way - fan support, travel, facilities, NCAA appearances - and he still bolted for IU the second they came calling).
and when Tom Crean was hired at IU, Few declined to talk to IU about the vacancy. You hit the nail on the head...that's loyalty while striving for excellence and contentment in one's work.
Chris Mack made a great decision! Georgetown isn't what it was and that's a lateral move. Chris is a Cincy kid. Went to E'ville then transferred back to X.
This actually raises a terrific off-season discussion question -- it comes from a statement Clark Kellogg made during the South Carolina/Gonzaga game Saturday on the radio broadcast. He was talking about blue-blood programs--the historically dominant programs. Programs that stand the test of time no matter, generally, who is coaching. He rattled off as blue bloods -- Kansas, Kentucky, Duke and UNC and then also added UCLA. My challenge meter went off when he said UCLA. Is a UCLA a blue blood? He rejected as a blue blood UConn (Jim Calhoun had been interviewed just before the blue blood statement) because it had only been good the past 20-25 years. Which led to my question about UCLA. Before Wooden, UCLA wasn't a power (like Kentucky and Kansas) and after Wooden, they have not been much of a dominant program (last Final Four 2008 (3-year run), 1995 before that, last championship 1995 (and 1975 before that)) or are they still a blue blood? They have had a parade of coaches since Wooden starting with former Valpo coach Gene Bartow through today's Alford. Alford may be bringing them back to prominence after 10 tough years, but when you see UCLA does the current generation shrug and say oh they're ok? So for the discussion:
1. Are there others besides UK, KU, Duke and UNC you include as blue bloods? I would include Louisville and maybe Indiana. Another one might be Arizona?
2. What happens to programs that are coach dependent on their "lofty" status? How many generations of dominant basketball makes a program a blue blood? Syracuse is an example of a coach-dependent program. When Boeheim retires, what happens? Examples of programs that may have been blue bloods but were more coach-dependent include DePaul, Georgetown, UNLV. We previously listed Duke as a blue blood, is it really a coach-dependent program or a blue blood? What happens when K retires? Is there a next coach that keeps "Duke is Duke?" Although nowhere near a blue blood, Valpo has had successes since 1995 and through this past year been coach/family-dependent. Will it continue as consistently quality program? Gonzaga has survived a generation with Munson to Few. Butler and X have gone through a generation of great basketball moving through a series of coaches (X-Gillen, Prosser, Matta, Miller and now Mack). Interestingly, when Joe B Hall retired at UK, the program had its ups and downs til Calipari came (Sutton (up and then problems), Pitino up, Tubby mediocre, Gillispie (down and issues)).
Have fun.
The classification of "blue bloods" is largely a media creation -- for example, if long periods of sustained success matter, than UConn, Louisville and Syracuse fit the bill way better than Indiana and UCLA do.
UCLA has had a ton of success historically, but yeah, they've been lacking in tourney success the past decade. I think the fact that they still have the most national titles and are the only "blue blood" out West plays a huge role there. Arizona I put more into the category of, say, a Maryland: perennial top 15-20 team, certainly capable of winning it all in a given year, but lacking the #s of Final Fours and titles to crash that "elite" club.
If I was making a current list of "blue bloods" it'd be Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Michigan State, and UConn. Next tier is Louisville, Kansas, Cuse, UCLA and maybe Florida/Wisconsin. UConn obviously is in an odd time - we need to see if their recent struggles are an aberration or the result of them suffering from being in the AAC and not able to recruit at the national level anymore. But they're still just three years removed from their 4th national championship and 5th Final Four in 15 years.
Kansas is an interesting case -- if not for a swallowed whistle at the end of their elite 8 game vs. Davidson and a missed Derrick Rose FT, they're a lot closer to Indiana right now, staring at 30 years without a title. (The main difference is that KU has consistently gone to Final Fours in the meantime).
I get the "coach-driven" argument against Cuse -- that said, that can work in different directions. I mean, by that logic, wouldn't IU fall under that category?
Lastly, it shows where Kentucky lives in that a coach who won a national championship for them is considered "mediocre." Any other program, he'd have the arena or at least the practice facility named after him.
In reality, what has Indiana done since 87. If you make that argument then UCLA is a blueblood. I may put Michigan state on the list
QuoteSmart is still young enough to be in demand for any number of good mid-major openings where you can "find your happy place" while sitting on a giant pile of money. Unless you were an absolute disaster in the P5 job, you'll almost always have an opportunity to return to the midmajor level.
And... to underscore this point, John Groce is on the verge of heading back to the MAC and getting the Akron job. So for a five-year stint in Champaign that ended with his firing, he ends up in no worse position than when he left, only he's $10 million richer. Again, it's a no-brainer for a midmajor coach to move up when they have the chance these days.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on April 04, 2017, 01:50:07 PMThe classification of "blue bloods" is largely a media creation -- for example, if long periods of sustained success matter, than UConn, Louisville and Syracuse fit the bill way better than Indiana and UCLA do. UCLA has had a ton of success historically, but yeah, they've been lacking in tourney success the past decade. I think the fact that they still have the most national titles and are the only "blue blood" out West plays a huge role there. Arizona I put more into the category of, say, a Maryland: perennial top 15-20 team, certainly capable of winning it all in a given year, but lacking the #s of Final Fours and titles to crash that "elite" club. If I was making a current list of "blue bloods" it'd be Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Michigan State, and UConn. Next tier is Louisville, Kansas, Cuse, UCLA and maybe Florida/Wisconsin. UConn obviously is in an odd time - we need to see if their recent struggles are an aberration or the result of them suffering from being in the AAC and not able to recruit at the national level anymore. But they're still just three years removed from their 4th national championship and 5th Final Four in 15 years. Kansas is an interesting case -- if not for a swallowed whistle at the end of their elite 8 game vs. Davidson and a missed Derrick Rose FT, they're a lot closer to Indiana right now, staring at 30 years without a title. (The main difference is that KU has consistently gone to Final Fours in the meantime). I get the "coach-driven" argument against Cuse -- that said, that can work in different directions. I mean, by that logic, wouldn't IU fall under that category? Lastly, it shows where Kentucky lives in that a coach who won a national championship for them is considered "mediocre." Any other program, he'd have the arena or at least the practice facility named after him.
You can apply the coach driven angle to a great degree to the Mighty Duke Blue Devils as well. They had some small success under Bucky Waters and Bill Foster directly prior to Coach K (particularly the Spanarkel's). Syracuse's success actually precedes that although it hasn't been as good a Duke's since the two current coaches took over.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 04, 2017, 07:59:28 AMUSAToday Headline: "Redemption: NC Takes Down Gonzaga." Redemption? Redemption! Redemption is fessing up to widespread cheating by UNC athletes under the hands-off policies of the UNC administration -- and the redemption I'm talking about is for everyone they played, not UNC -- i.e., vacated UNC wins (including this one). They shouldn't have even been in the tournament.
Um, they lost the title last year on a buzzer beater. There are other possible meanings for redemption.
No doubt that was the intension of the article (poor NC, they lost on a buzzer beater last year - they are so deserving this year), however, I chose to spin it my way because of what UNC represents in the grand scheme of the NCAA's and the P5's lack of integrity.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 05, 2017, 08:10:27 AM
No doubt that was the intension of the article (poor NC, they lost on a buzzer beater last year - they are so deserving this year), however, I chose to spin it my way because of what UNC represents in the grand scheme of the NCAA's and the P5's lack of integrity.
I'm on board with you here.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 05, 2017, 08:10:27 AM
No doubt that was the intension of the article (poor NC, they lost on a buzzer beater last year - they are so deserving this year), however, I chose to spin it my way because of what UNC represents in the grand scheme of the NCAA's and the P5's lack of integrity.
Well said. I have to think how the media fawns over the teams that only get into the dance every so often telling us what a big deal this is for them, and it is... but then there are the programs that are in it every year like UNC who in this case has been aided by systemic cheating since the late 1980's. How many times has a DESERVING program, team and student athletes been denied the opportunity to participate in the tournament while this juggernaut of a program has blatantly defied the rules. Some Illinois State's players may never have the experience of the tournament. I guess they didn't deserve an opportunity, unlike UNC.
Have you guys heard about the drama happening at the University of Illinois? UofI just lost a 5-star recruit who already signed his letter of intent. Mizzou hired Cuonzo Martin and he started actively recruiting another schools sign recruit!! What a dirtbag! That is the lowest of the low in terms of College Recruiting.
Once a kid has signed his letter of intent you have some nerve to recruit that kid. U of I went to through a coaching change but the kid reaffirmed his commitment to the new coach but suddenly Cuonzo comes to his home town (also his hometown) claiming he was just visiting his sister/recruiting and suddenly the next week the kid decommits to U of I and is scheduling a visit to Mizzou.
I have no problem with kids having a change of heart, especially after coaching changes but when coaches do things like this its completely classless.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/849676957788844032
https://twitter.com/Dave_Matter/status/843196752366882818
https://twitter.com/WCIA3Bret/status/846805831509295106
No comparison between Kansas and IU as to which are blue bloods. People have a variety of opinions about its NCAA tournament performance, but Kansas has won 13 straight regular season conference titles in a Power 6 conference.
Regarding good mid-majors keeping their coaches, it would seem that coaches like Mark Few are the exception. Given that, universities need to build a program independent of the coach that is focused on quality, values, type of player, etc. When a coach leaves, you should (a) try to have a viable succession candidate ready and (b) always hire related to your program values instead of hiring a name coach and giving him too much discretion. Some of you may hate Butler, but frankly this is a big reason why Butler has consistently been successful.
LaVar Ball saying LaVar Ball things...
https://twitter.com/CBSSportsCBB/status/850168961614401538
Tell that to Gonzaga.
LaVar is an a$$. Unfortunately he is outlandish enough to get media coverage. I'd be embarrassed to be his sons.
https://twitter.com/CBTonNBC/status/855098148343226368
https://twitter.com/HoopvilleAdam/status/855108188533903360
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/04/20/ncaa-considering-significant-changes-to-the-college-basketball-calendar/
NCAA considering significant changes to the college basketball calendar
By Rob DausterApr 20, 2017, 12:37 PM EDT
The fact that college basketball is one of the only sports without a recognizable and celebrated opening day has been an issue that has bugged critics of the sport for a long time.
Change could be on the way.
The Division I Men's Basketball Oversight Committee discussed the potential for changing the start date for college basketball games, moving it up from the second Friday in November to the Tuesday before the second Friday in November; three days earlier.
"The men's college basketball community has been discussing the possibility of establishing a uniform start date for the sport," the NCAA wrote in a statement. "Many believe it can create a less compressed schedule, particularly for nonconference games, which they believe would benefit student-athlete well-being by providing more time for rest and recovery."
It's also worth noting that the committee is considering creating a mandatory mid-season break. "Committee members also discussed standardizing the playing season to 21 weeks with a mandatory three- or four-day break for the student-athletes at some point during their school's winter vacation period," the NCAA said.
The real story, however, is the NCAA's effort to create a college basketball opening day. It would be a nice change, particularly if the games are played midweek, but the bigger issue would be putting together games that would actually make opening night worth watching. As it currently stands, the de-facto starting point for the college basketball season is the Champions Classic, a showcase that features four of the biggest brands in the sport playing a double-header that caps a 24-hour college basketball marathon. It's game like that — Duke vs. Kentucky, Kansas vs. Michigan State, North Carolina vs. Indiana, etc. — that need to be played on opening night to drive interest.
If all we end up getting is a bunch of high-major programs beating the hell out of overmatched mid-major teams no one cares about, the day that season starts isn't going to matter.
Because no one is going to care.
So the NCAA's idea of significant changes are:
-Move the day you can start playing games up three days. Make it official as opposed to the official second Friday start date.
-A mandatory midseason break of three or four days, which is likely how 95%+ teams have scheduled each season for many years.
I bet that committee members are not compensated based on their contributions and improvements.
Wow shots fired by Jeff Goodman. Literally just called out Western Kentucky and Rick Stansbury for literally paying players in recruitment.
It is a little suspicious and there is a lot of smoke surround Stansbury in the past... It's no secret some programs (Coaches) pay players.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/867428079085531136
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/867436783491051521
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/867437660255784964
The NBA is thinking of killing the "one-and done" rule to enter the NBA draft.
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing for Mid-Major Basketball.
Pros:
-There will be less NBA players going to the Power Conference programs which means it will "level" the playing field a bit. Generally the schools with the most NBA players on the roster win the tournament (the best way to beat loaded NBA rosters like Kentucky is to have a heavy senior/junior rosters that have a lot of experience and our well coached, even still the Kentucky's of the win have an advantage.)
-The Kentucky's of the world will win less because Calipari will be forced to coach and not just trot out the most talented freshman every year.
Is this potentially a good or bad for thing for specifically Mid-Majors?
http://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/2/15728454/nba-draft-age-minimum-gleague-adam-silver
https://twitter.com/Aaron_Torres/status/870033526199992320
Wow. Generally I hate seeing non P5 schools losing their coaches to P5 schools but part of me doesn't care about Butler. Chris Holtmann has refused schedule Valpo. Maybe the next guy will.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/873002559040081920
It's all a business and you have to accept it, though I'm not shedding any tears for Butler if this happens. Would be interesting to see if Butler goes after LaVall Jordan... ;D
Quote from: jloose128 on June 08, 2017, 11:22:17 PM
It's all a business and you have to accept it, though I'm not shedding any tears for Butler if this happens. Would be interesting to see if Butler goes after LaVall Jordan... ;D
I think that's exactly who they're going to hire considering he's been on staff at Butler and supposedly narrowly lost out to Holtmann for the job Coming from an HL school and being on the same staff I bet he'd be reluctant to schedule Valpo too but who knows?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 08, 2017, 11:33:21 PM
Quote from: jloose128 on June 08, 2017, 11:22:17 PM
It's all a business and you have to accept it, though I'm not shedding any tears for Butler if this happens. Would be interesting to see if Butler goes after LaVall Jordan... ;D
I think that's exactly who they're going to hire considering he's been on staff at Butler and supposedly narrowly lost out to Holtmann for the job Coming from an HL school and being on the same staff I bet he'd be reluctant to schedule Valpo too but who knows?
That would suck for UWM if that happened.
They'd probably regret not hiring T. J. Otzelberger then... that whole situation was pretty screwed up. T. J. Otzelberger was pretty much promised the job and assured he'd get the UWM job but the President overruled the AD who promised the job to TJ and his family was in Milwaukee for the introduction press conference but then had the rug pulled out under him.
Just really poor optics for an already chaotic Athletics Department.
http://www.wtmj.com/sports/college/exclusive-uwm-had-milwaukee-native-tj-otzelberger-tabbed-but-hired-lavall-jackson
https://soundcloud.com/620-wtmj/greg-matzek-joins-charlie-sykes-on-uwm-hiring-process?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_content=https%3A//soundcloud.com/620-wtmj/greg-matzek-joins-charlie-sykes-on-uwm-hiring-process
But I doubt Lavall Jordan would be offered the job. He's not apart of the Brad Stevens coaching tree. He left Butler after Stevens got the job over him (been over 10 years now).
Butler would likely hire one of Holtmann's assistants or one of Steven's former assistants with ties to the program. Just a guess.
If Holtmann leaves I hope the next guy schedules a home and home with Valpo (probably still going to be a long-shot).
Could provide just the impetus UWM needs to finally oust their awful AD and clean house in a meaningful way. I really hope they can right the ship and become a good program again soon. The college basketball world is a better place with more quality mid-majors around.
I begin to wonder, with very little additional news breaking tonight, if this is all a leverage play by Holtmann to extract more money out of Butler; like McDermott probably did at Creighton by turning OSU down last night. Butler fans are flipping out about as bad as Creighton fans were when the McDermott rumors broke.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 02, 2017, 11:13:56 AM
The NBA is thinking of killing the "one-and done" rule to enter the NBA draft.
I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing for Mid-Major Basketball.
Pros:
-There will be less NBA players going to the Power Conference programs which means it will "level" the playing field a bit. Generally the schools with the most NBA players on the roster win the tournament (the best way to beat loaded NBA rosters like Kentucky is to have a heavy senior/junior rosters that have a lot of experience and our well coached, even still the Kentucky's of the win have an advantage.)
-The Kentucky's of the world will win less because Calipari will be forced to coach and not just trot out the most talented freshman every year.
Is this potentially a good or bad for thing for specifically Mid-Majors?
http://www.sbnation.com/2017/6/2/15728454/nba-draft-age-minimum-gleague-adam-silver
https://twitter.com/Aaron_Torres/status/870033526199992320
I think the one and done rule has been EXTREMELY GOOD for Valpo and other strong mid-majors. Lets face it, our goal is not the final 4. Our goal is to get to as many tournaments as possible occasionally make it to the round of 32 or the sweet 16.
If you have 20 one and done players every year filling roster spots at high major universities, not to mention 20 more 2 and done players that leave after their sophomore years. That allows some very talented athletes to filter down into the mid-major ranks who are more than likely going to be 4 year players.
I firmly believe there are a lot of high major talents at mid-major schools because the roster spots are being filled with 1 and done and 2 and done players at the high major level.
Wow.
I thought Ohio State was going to have to really pony up to get him but it sounds like they aren't.
https://twitter.com/THicksBH/status/873186185644048384
Not quite sure that was a good move for OSU...I guess time will tell but just a gut feeling.
As a casual Ohio State supporter and ardent Butler detractor, I find this especially amusing.
The big question now is "does Butler have any 2018 commits we might be able to poach during the July contact period?"
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looks like they don't have any commits for the 2018 class yet.
Just taking a look at verbal commits and will have 4 freshman and 6 incoming freshman.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 08, 2017, 10:50:09 PM
Wow. Generally I hate seeing non P5 schools losing their coaches to P5 schools but part of me doesn't care about Butler. Chris Holtmann has refused schedule Valpo. Maybe the next guy will.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/873002559040081920
Different perspective, for what it's worth: I count the Big East as a power conference, so it doesn't even register as poaching on my radar screen.
Are you for a tweak and small expansion of Lunardi's format?
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/888050260249116676
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/888051901765484544
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20104342/worth-discussing-expanding-ncaa-tournament-field-72-teams
As I interpret this, I like this overall - but do not like the rotation of conferences who get their regular season champ into a play-in game. Instead, I would just have the selection committee choose the best 4 regular season champs that did not already get into the NCAA tournament and have them in the play-in games. You would have six play-in games on Tuesday and Wednesday.
2 games with the lowest seeded overall teams. Winners become 16 seeds.
4 games comprised of the four best regular season champs not already in the tournament and the bottom four at-large teams. Winners seeded into appropriate slots (which typically have been #11 or #12). You could also just have them become all of the #12 (or even #13) seeds.
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 20, 2017, 11:31:31 AM
As I interpret this, I like this overall - but do not like the rotation of conferences who get their regular season champ into a play-in game. Instead, I would just have the selection committee choose the best 4 regular season champs that did not already get into the NCAA tournament and have them in the play-in games. You would have six play-in games on Tuesday and Wednesday.
2 games with the lowest seeded overall teams. Winners become 16 seeds.
4 games comprised of the four best regular season champs not already in the tournament and the bottom four at-large teams. Winners seeded into appropriate slots (which typically have been #11 or #12). You could also just have them become all of the #12 (or even #13) seeds.
I don't think expansion is needed for the exclusion of a single team from the tournament that builds a decent at-large resume in the current system, regardless if that team is a mid-major or major conference team. What is needed is an overhaul of the selection process which takes it out of the hands of people and puts it into either one or a composite of analytical rankings which basically eliminate any scheduling bias that leans more toward major conferences than mid-majors (e.g. KenPom). By doing this, teams could also know exactly where they stand for a much larger part of the season, and once all the auto-bids were decided, there wouldn't be any drama at all for who was in or out. You'd simply look at the rankings, and if you weren't one of the auto-bids, if you were high enough, you'd be in, and if you weren't, you'd be out. Could also be used for the seed lines as well.
For example, Wichita State would have been a 2 or 3 seed last year using KenPom even though they only had 2 top 50 RPI wins (both against Illinois State) rather than a 10 seed. Saint Mary's would have been a 4 seed rather than a 7 seed. These systems actually analyze the team over the entirety of the regular season rather than columns of good wins and bad losses, so on average, you are going to get the best teams in the tournament. Teams who are hot won't get overseeded, and teams that had a bad week or two during the season won't get left out if they perform well enough during the rest of the year. It'll never go solely to that process because people, power and TV ratings, but it would be incredibly simple, mid-major teams wouldn't get screwed for not being able to schedule big-name opponents, and it would give teams the ability to actually gauge where they were during the season rather than hoping and praying that these people in a room pick them.
Might we expect a delay in releasing our 2017/18 schedule with the conference change?
Last year was quite late I felt? When do we generally see our official schedule released in normal years? I realize we aren't in the midst of two years with major distractions (new coach and new conference).
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on July 20, 2017, 05:39:04 PMLast year was quite late I felt? When do we generally see our official schedule released in normal years? I realize we aren't in the midst of two years with major distractions (new coach and new conference).
"After Labor Day" would be a good guess... based on prior releases. Here are the dates of the press release announcing the schedule on the Archives part of the website. (fun seeing some of the other releases surrounding these)
September 7, 2016
September 23, 2015
September 11, 2014
September 10, 2013
August 24, 2012
September 6, 2011
August 18, 2010
August 19, 2009
September 1, 2008
Scary news about Greg Kampe. Hopefully he's getting healthy.
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/895310632618209280
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/oakland-coach-greg-kampe-recounts-near-death-experience-caused-by-sepsis/
He also lost Isaiah Brock who is stepping away from sports to focus on academics. He was fun to watch.
Sepsis is a killer. Make no mistake about that. I lost my mother in law to that. She had an abdominal blockage but put off going to the clinic for two days. She died the next day on her kitchen floor. Glad Coach Kampe made the right choices.
Brocks is not playing next year? He had so much potential. Is he still going to Oakland university. Can't imagine a talent like that on campus not playing.
Quote from: oklahomamick on August 10, 2017, 04:25:53 AM
Brocks is not playing next year? He had so much potential. Is he still going to Oakland university. Can't imagine a talent like that on campus not playing.
Helps when you're a 23 year old freshman.
So that's why BYU is always good.
Well except when they play valpo
Quote from: oklahomamick on August 13, 2017, 09:18:35 AM
So that's why BYU is always good.
Well except when they play valpo
And because it's a huge school. B1G size.
Has always helped them in football to line up 21-25 years olds against 18-21 year olds.
Kampe loses another guy. Explains why they offered Lexus earlier this year.
Very peculiar timing to transfer... This is his 3rd time transferring.
https://twitter.com/GrizzTalkOU/status/897858407436345344
So once again the "Kings" court is in a state of flux. So what's new? Continuity and quality recruits do not appear to be significant parts of "The King's" approach to molding a quality program.
Some very sad news. Ball State PF Zach Hollywood passed away. He was only 19. Zach was high school teammates with Micah Bradford at Bradley-Bourbonnais Community High School.
https://twitter.com/WTHRcom/status/900128618180902916
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvlAuqGkLME
OMG. What happened? Was it a suicide? Such a powerful piece about his mom. Truly a sad story. Peace to Micah.
Sadly, yes. The coroner has said that signs point to suicide, per a report from the Ball State Daily News tonight. Heartbreaking.
http://www.ballstatedaily.com/article/2017/08/article201708news-zach-hollywood-passes-away-ball-state-basketball
There is a thread for this and this information might reach more people if the conversation was contained or moved to that thread.
An interesting article about former Valpo recruit and local product (Crown Point) Sasha Stefanovic who plays for Purdue. It could be really important for Sasha to establish a role early on with Purdue with 7 Guards currently on their roster and they are recruiting some high ceiling guards for the 2018 class.
His former teammate Grant Gelon (Crown Point) played for Indiana last season and Grant got squeezed from IU's roster.
https://twitter.com/nbairdjc/status/899952806748205056
http://www.jconline.com/story/sports/college/purdue/basketball/2017/08/22/purdues-sasha-stefanovic-not-looking-depth-chart-summer/587979001/
He's betting on himself, something admirable about that.
https://twitter.com/Local12/status/903024477348474880
The NCAA doing NCAA things... SMH
https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/906364036136271874
Quote from: VU2014 on September 09, 2017, 02:02:28 PM
The NCAA doing NCAA things... SMH
https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/906364036136271874
REALLY, the NCAA is worried that some of this stuff might go to recruits..... Who thinks this stuff up, what devious mind would even contemplate such a motivation under these circumstances??
The NCAA has allowed the donations to proceed on this and by all accounts were never going to block it, but it took several days for them to run it up their approval chain. Which is ridiculous. So, *no one* at NCAA headquarters had the gumption to short-circuit the CYA process and simply said "of course you can distribute this stuff -- and here, let us send a truckload of leftover March Madness merch to help the cause!"
(That UH even had to ask for a waiver here - or at least felt they had to do so - is another problem with the NCAA regulations. This is the type of tin-eared, flat-footed stuff that will cause even the most tepid college sports fan to call for the organization's abolishment).
I can't speak for the NCAA thought process but I saw the name Kelvin Sampson and rightly or wrongly made the decision that any charitable giving from my part would have to go elsewhere. I will admit that might be an outdated character judgement but it is what it is because it was what it was.
The more schools that start sell alcohol, does it make it more likely that we'll see the ARC do the same one day?
It looks like Butler has a Food Service Contract with Aramark, which already has a liquor license and covers the pricy fee. If Valpo ever contracted with a Food & Beverage company I wonder if they'd ever consider selling beer or at least roping off a beer garden area above the lower bowl for people over the age of 21. The University has already shown signs of relaxing its zero alcohol policy over the years. They now serve alcohol at Homecoming (smart move by the University).
I know some people are pretty opposed to the idea but I'm personally not, especially if we ever renovated the ARC and created a little beer garden section. I don't think the ARC would turn into the Wrigley Field bleachers or anything like that but thats just my opinion. Maybe it would generate more revenue at games.
https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/908059375566245895
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/09/07/butler-aims-sell-alcohol-hinkle-fieldhouse/642959001/
Butler aims to sell alcohol at Hinkle Fieldhouse
By: David Woods
Sept. 7, 2017
"The university has applied for an alcohol permit. A public notice was placed on Hinkle's doors Thursday announcing a notice for a Sept. 18 public hearing. A committee will make a recommendation and forward that to the state for approval.
Aramark, which has the Butler contract for food services, already has a permit to sell alcohol. The fieldhouse does not.
Butler provides alcoholic beverages in Hinkle hospitality locations, such as the Wildman Room and Efroymson Family Gym. A permit would allow alcohol sales at concession stands."
......
Won't do anything for me. I don't need alcohol at college athletic events but I'm not opposed to it either.
Quote from: bbtds on September 13, 2017, 07:18:48 PM
Won't do anything for me. I don't need alcohol at college athletic events but I'm not opposed to it either.
Beer could bring more locals. I don't drink either, I'm fairly indifferent.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 13, 2017, 07:43:38 PM
Quote from: bbtds on September 13, 2017, 07:18:48 PM
Won't do anything for me. I don't need alcohol at college athletic events but I'm not opposed to it either.
Beer could bring more locals. I don't drink either, I'm fairly indifferent.
Actually, it just amounts to adding one more small facet to the game experience. IMO that would be way behind...
Improved (i.e., close) parking
New fold-away seat backs for all the lower sections (except for the Valparaizone)
Moving the access to concessions from the gym floor to the back wall to the corridor (in line with adding beer to the offerings)
Adding fold-away seat back bleachers to the east baseline
Improved PA system
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/915259436851228673
There is some sad news coming out of the Chicago Public Leagues. Chicago State 3-star recruit who plays for Simeon has started to go down a dark path. He allegedly started getting involved with gang activity this summer and is in the hospital now. (other offers include: Oakland, UIC, DePaul, Nebraska, etc) He was considered one the better players in the 2018 Illinois class. He surprised everyone by committing to Chicago State this summer but he gave up Basketball.
Just such a sad story.
https://twitter.com/michaelsobrien/status/915642916554596355
ESPN seems to be inching away from College Hoops every year with their coverage... ESPN is relegating the sport to a month and half long period.
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/917083904577757184
Quote from: VU2014 on October 09, 2017, 12:07:17 PM
ESPN seems to be inching away from College Hoops every year with their coverage... ESPN is relegating the sport to a month and half long period.
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/917083904577757184
Too bad, I rather enjoyed this event.
ESPN has announced they will be airing certain basketball games on Tuesday, Nov. 14, such as Michigan State vs. Duke and Kentucky vs. Kansas. My disappointing initial impression is that they are abandoning other opening games with mid-majors or lower tier conferences.
Quote from: valpopal on October 09, 2017, 04:14:14 PM
ESPN has announced they will be airing certain basketball games on Tuesday, Nov. 14, such as Michigan State vs. Duke and Kentucky vs. Kansas. My disappointing initial impression is that they are abandoning other opening games with mid-majors or lower tier conferences.
That's probably because they are all on ESPN3 or WatchESPN... whatever they call it. DirecTV now has the ESPN app that can load if you are watching ESPN so I was surprised when Saturday's Women's Soccer game against Loyola popped up as viewable on the DirecTV app. If they aren't on the DirecTV app then they are on Chromecast or Fire Stick or a TV App by whatever new TV you might have. Watched the Campbell game on my new LG 4K because they now have a Flash capable browser. With the business issues they are having I wonder how long they can sustain ESPN, ESNP2 and ESPNU etc. Airing only the big names probably keeps the ad revenue up. I really wonder where this FULL access stuff will end up from a business prospective. You can now stream every Fort Wayne high school athletic event in high def thanks to Parkview Sports Medicine, who would have thought that would be the case 10 years ago?
Quote from: FWalum on October 09, 2017, 05:26:38 PM
Quote from: valpopal on October 09, 2017, 04:14:14 PM
ESPN has announced they will be airing certain basketball games on Tuesday, Nov. 14, such as Michigan State vs. Duke and Kentucky vs. Kansas. My disappointing initial impression is that they are abandoning other opening games with mid-majors or lower tier conferences.
That's probably because they are all on ESPN3 or WatchESPN... whatever they call it. DirecTV now has the ESPN app that can load if you are watching ESPN so I was surprised when Saturday's Women's Soccer game against Loyola popped up as viewable on the DirecTV app. If they aren't on the DirecTV app then they are on Chromecast or Fire Stick or a TV App by whatever new TV you might have. Watched the Campbell game on my new LG 4K because they now have a Flash capable browser. With the business issues they are having I wonder how long they can sustain ESPN, ESNP2 and ESPNU etc. Airing only the big names probably keeps the ad revenue up. I really wonder where this FULL access stuff will end up from a business prospective. You can now stream every Fort Wayne high school athletic event in high def thanks to Parkview Sports Medicine, who would have thought that would be the case 10 years ago?
Before you know it we'll have full electric cars on the road with some of them driving themselves. Oh.....wait............we already do.
I wonder if they are teaching the self driving cars to honk at the other self driving cars if they don't start moving when the light turns green after a half second at a stop light.
NCAA lets North Carolina basketball get away with academic fraud without any penalty >:(
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/13/16468924/ncaa-not-punishing-north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-scandal (https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/13/16468924/ncaa-not-punishing-north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-scandal)
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/10/13/16430302/north-carolina-scandal-ncaa-violations-sanctions (https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/10/13/16430302/north-carolina-scandal-ncaa-violations-sanctions)
Quote from: valpopal on October 13, 2017, 09:30:22 AM
NCAA lets North Carolina basketball get away with academic fraud without any penalty >:(
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/13/16468924/ncaa-not-punishing-north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-scandal (https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/13/16468924/ncaa-not-punishing-north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-scandal)
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/10/13/16430302/north-carolina-scandal-ncaa-violations-sanctions (https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/10/13/16430302/north-carolina-scandal-ncaa-violations-sanctions)
Seriously what is to stop other schools from just making fake classes now!? WTF is wrong with the NCAA!?!?!
If this wasn't a big $ making school they would have thrown the hammer down on that program. I'm literally beside myself on how the NCAA can be this spineless.
Quote from: valpopal on October 13, 2017, 09:30:22 AM
NCAA lets North Carolina basketball get away with academic fraud without any penalty >:(
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/13/16468924/ncaa-not-punishing-north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-scandal (https://www.aseaofblue.com/2017/10/13/16468924/ncaa-not-punishing-north-carolina-tar-heels-academic-scandal)
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/10/13/16430302/north-carolina-scandal-ncaa-violations-sanctions (https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/10/13/16430302/north-carolina-scandal-ncaa-violations-sanctions)
ARE YOU STINKING KIDDING ME >:( >:( >:(
Call me crazy, but I think the only bad thing the NCAA did with the UNC case was the length and resources involved. There really isn't/wasn't anything they could do. It's on UNC. They are the ones who should be bashed, lose accreditation, etc. The NCAA has no business telling student-athletes what kind of classes they have to take, the university controls those standards. Blame UNC, not the NCAA.
Quote from: valpo4life on October 13, 2017, 11:35:59 AM
Call me crazy, but I think the only bad thing the NCAA did with the UNC case was the length and resources involved. There really isn't/wasn't anything they could do. It's on UNC. They are the ones who should be bashed, lose accreditation, etc. The NCAA has no business telling student-athletes what kind of classes they have to take, the university controls those standards. Blame UNC, not the NCAA.
Yes, put great blame on UNC, especially the departments involved, but also fault the NCAA. The NCAA is the governing body that is supposed to oversee campus conditions influencing its "student-athletes," which includes assuring that those student-athletes are receiving a legitimate education. The situation at North Carolina is clear. Numerous athletes (one study concluded about 2,000) were allowed to participate in "a shadow curriculum," including taking "independent study" courses for which the athlete was the only student enrolled, and those courses (sometimes disguised as "lecture" classes in their descriptions) never met nor was any instruction offered; yet, student-athletes who did no work were granted an "A" on their transcripts for the course, and the credits counted toward their eligibility. When you realize that athletes are only 4% of the student population at North Carolina, the percentage who took suspect classes clearly suggests a targeted and conscious funneling of athletes into these sham classes. Addressing a situation like this is precisely one of the purposes for the existence of the NCAA, and its responsibility.
Quote from: valpo4life on October 13, 2017, 11:35:59 AMCall me crazy, but I think the only bad thing the NCAA did with the UNC case was the length and resources involved. There really isn't/wasn't anything they could do. It's on UNC. They are the ones who should be bashed, lose accreditation, etc. The NCAA has no business telling student-athletes what kind of classes they have to take, the university controls those standards. Blame UNC, not the NCAA.
The sad thing is I believe the next time something like this comes up again not involving a P-5 6 program. That school will face severe consequences and the NCAA will thump its chest saying that this shows it takes academics very seriously.
One thing I just noticed is former VU assistant coach Jackie Manuel's (a former UNC basketball player 2001-2005/VU assistant for 1 season) college major was African-American studies, which are the courses that are caught up in all of this UNC fake classes for athletes... I'm not sure he was taking fake classes but its awfully suspicious because Men's BBall and football were the two sports mainly taking advantage of the fake classes...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina_Tar_Heels_men%27s_basketball
https://alumni.unc.edu/news/mccants-says-fraudulent-classes-may-be-all-that-kept-him-eligible/https://www.tarheelblog.com/2012/07/the-big-lead-takes-on-uncs-academic-scandal
Now that the NCAA has decided not to punish North Carolina, the Chronicle of Higher Education released an article this weekend summarizing what it calls "arguably the most pervasive academic fraud at a major research university in at least a generation." In its summary, the basketball team is listed as taking "no-show classes" 167 times in a period of only 8 years (2001-2009). That would break down to more than 20 fake no-show classes taken by members of the basketball team each year. How does a team take an average of 20 phony classes each year for 8 years? Most of these classes were taken after Roy Williams became the head coach in 2003. When he entered, five members of the basketball team were majoring in African and Afro-American Studies, but in the 2004-2005 season, 10 team members majored in African and Afro-American Studies, apparently including Jackie Manuel, former VU assistant coach, who was a Tarheel team captain in 2004-2005.
http://www.chronicle.com/interactives/unc-scandal (http://www.chronicle.com/interactives/unc-scandal)
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article10107071.html (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article10107071.html)
We're getting the "10 possible Cinderella teams" article. It smells like College Basketball season is right around the corner.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/10-possible-cinderella-teams-you-may-be-talking-about-during-march-madness/
A few Valpo connections:
-Illinois State: CBS goes on to say they are the favorite ??? in the MVC next season, which I disagree with.
-Chokeland: Can't argue they should be good but will they be? History says 1st round exit at 'Motor City Dumpster-Fire'
-Ball State: We play them in Non-Conference next season in Munster. Should be a tough game.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 16, 2017, 01:46:45 PM-Ball State: We play them in Non-Conference next season in Munster. Should be a tough game.
Taking the trip down to Muncie on December 9th to see that game with a friend whose firm has season tickets.
Quote from: FWalum on October 16, 2017, 02:14:15 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 16, 2017, 01:46:45 PM-Ball State: We play them in Non-Conference next season in Munster. Should be a tough game.
Taking the trip down to Muncie on December 9th to see that game with a friend whose firm has season tickets.
haha my bad Muncie
Quote from: VU2014 on October 16, 2017, 01:46:45 PM
We're getting the "10 possible Cinderella teams" article. It smells like College Basketball season is right around the corner.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/10-possible-cinderella-teams-you-may-be-talking-about-during-march-madness/
A few Valpo connections:
-Illinois State: CBS goes on to say they are the favorite ??? in the MVC next season, which I disagree with.
-Chokeland: Can't argue they should be good but will they be? History says 1st round exit at 'Motor City Dumpster-Fire'
-Ball State: We play them in Non-Conference next season in Munster. Should be a tough game.
Agree on Ill State. Also, can't buy into the Oakland hype until they win a game or two in March. That said, they probably have the best chance to represent a really weak Horizon League in the NCAA tourney.
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 16, 2017, 03:44:06 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 16, 2017, 01:46:45 PM
We're getting the "10 possible Cinderella teams" article. It smells like College Basketball season is right around the corner.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/10-possible-cinderella-teams-you-may-be-talking-about-during-march-madness/
A few Valpo connections:
-Illinois State: CBS goes on to say they are the favorite ??? in the MVC next season, which I disagree with.
-Chokeland: Can't argue they should be good but will they be? History says 1st round exit at 'Motor City Dumpster-Fire'
-Ball State: We play them in Non-Conference next season in Munster. Should be a tough game.
Agree on Ill State. Also, can't buy into the Oakland hype until they win a game or two in March. That said, they probably have the best chance to represent a really weak Horizon League in the NCAA tourney.
I'm going with NKU. Drew McDonald is the best player in the conference and I suspect there will be some internal meltdown with Oakland's woman beater.
Loyola's new Director of Basketball Operations hire could be a recruiting game changer. Jevon Mamon is now a former Chicago Public League head coach and he also was a coach for one of the top AAU programs Meanstreets (Javon Freeman-Liberty's AAU team). A really good hire. I believe basketball Ops "technically" aren't allowed to recruit but it sure won't hurt that he knows everyone and kids are familiar with him.
https://twitter.com/joehoopsreport/status/920108841571901441
https://twitter.com/nikemeanstreets/status/920110689749839872
https://twitter.com/joehoopsreport/status/751093577665617920
https://twitter.com/trigonis30/status/523739563047809024
The following Nike commercial has aired widely during this week and appears timed to the start of the NBA season. I wonder how the NCAA can permit the shoe company ad to use Duke prominently in such a commercial, especially since this certainly gives an unfair advantage to Duke with recruiting and in fundraising. With the current controversy and scandal involving shoe companies in college basketball, the timing certainly is terrible, and I can't see why the NCAA doesn't prohibit this.
[tweet]920368842672562176[/tweet]
Quote from: valpopal on October 18, 2017, 10:51:55 AM
The following Nike commercial has aired widely during this week and appears timed to the start of the NBA season. I wonder how the NCAA can permit the shoe company ad to use Duke prominently in such a commercial, especially since this certainly gives an unfair advantage to Duke with recruiting and in fundraising. With the current controversy and scandal involving shoe companies in college basketball, the timing certainly is terrible, and I can't see why the NCAA doesn't prohibit this.
I saw it last night and thought what a terrible situation it has created. When the Adidas/Louisville federal investigation story broke I kept my mouth shut while people bayed for the blood of rival-program coaches, players, and administrations. "Low hanging fruit," I thought. Even the Adidas representatives they are targeting are nothing more than patsies. As long as corporate leadership can escape prosecution and corporate money is dangled for the taking, nothing will improve.
Wow. Kind of a dick move from Greg Marshall... It's the AAC, not the ACC. You can get a great steak anywhere.
https://twitter.com/DrMattSmithPT/status/921335002486530049
Quote from: VU2014 on October 20, 2017, 11:40:11 AM
Wow. Kind of a dick move from Greg Marshall... It's the AAC, not the ACC. You can get a great steak anywhere.
https://twitter.com/DrMattSmithPT/status/921335002486530049
I'd like to hear from Johnny Dawkins (UCF's head coach) about what he's looking forward to doing when they travel to Wichita for a game on January 25th.
First thought: if quality of restaurants in the members' cities determined quality of conference, then the Horizon League would've been a P5 long ago.
Second thought: Marshall is going to be disappointed as hell with his trips to Storrs, CT and Greenville, NC, then.
Found this great website that has a bunch of information on the FBI investigation into college basketball. It's pretty cool because it not only compiled articles and legal documents into one place, but also has profiles on all of the individuals "accused/charged" in the lawsuits. It even has a filter so you can see only information related to a particular school. Super convenient
Definitely worth a look if you are interested in the topic
cbbcase.com
I'm sorry, I can't help myself. You guys are upset at Marshall yet Valpo fan after Valpo fan have ripped the Horizon league after leaving. Very Interesting. And the comments about Oakland and the post season, yes we were 0=2 as a 1 seed and a 2 seed. If I remember Valpo was 0-2 as a 1 seed and a 2 seed the last two years. In fact if you really look at it, Valpo won 5 out of 6 championships and only went to the NCAA tourney twice. How do any of you feel good about tearing into Oakland when u have the exact same record. Plus, your two NCAA trips you won the tournament at home. Didn't you lose to a ten seed. Now, really, I'm not ripping you, I'm asking how you can make those statements when your team did no better. Does it make you feel better to say that stuff.
Oh Grizz... your insecurities are showing again.
Relax, Grizz...now you have your league all to yourself.
Hey Grizz... while you're trolling... How's the King's Health? I know he had a scare a few month ago... hope he's doing ok now...
Quote from: Grizz on October 20, 2017, 03:34:56 PM
I'm sorry, I can't help myself. You guys are upset at Marshall yet Valpo fan after Valpo fan have ripped the Horizon league after leaving. Very Interesting. And the comments about Oakland and the post season, yes we were 0=2 as a 1 seed and a 2 seed. If I remember Valpo was 0-2 as a 1 seed and a 2 seed the last two years. In fact if you really look at it, Valpo won 5 out of 6 championships and only went to the NCAA tourney twice. How do any of you feel good about tearing into Oakland when u have the exact same record. Plus, your two NCAA trips you won the tournament at home. Didn't you lose to a ten seed. Now, really, I'm not ripping you, I'm asking how you can make those statements when your team did no better. Does it make you feel better to say that stuff.
Remember when you equated beating a woman with underage drinking from someone that can legally drink in his home country? Good times.
For any shortcomings Doug Elgin may have as a leader, he is MILES ahead of Jon LeCrone in that department. The sporting pedigree of the HL can't hold a candle to that of the MVC. Forget trying to catch the Missouri Valley I would be more concerned by getting passed up by the Ohio Valley or caught by the Summit. The HL is at best a low-level mid-major league now and is dangerously close to falling into low-major status.and it's due in large part to its all-talk no action leadership. At least the MVC isn't petty enough to file suit when its best member leaves while simultaneously shooting itself in the foot by adding a dreg program like IUPUI which one could argue undermines the case being adjudicated.
Quote from: Grizz on October 20, 2017, 03:34:56 PM
I'm sorry, I can't help myself. You guys are upset at Marshall yet Valpo fan after Valpo fan have ripped the Horizon league after leaving. Very Interesting. And the comments about Oakland and the post season, yes we were 0=2 as a 1 seed and a 2 seed. If I remember Valpo was 0-2 as a 1 seed and a 2 seed the last two years. In fact if you really look at it, Valpo won 5 out of 6 championships and only went to the NCAA tourney twice. How do any of you feel good about tearing into Oakland when u have the exact same record. Plus, your two NCAA trips you won the tournament at home. Didn't you lose to a ten seed. Now, really, I'm not ripping you, I'm asking how you can make those statements when your team did no better. Does it make you feel better to say that stuff.
You're making a huge leap there. Just because Irishdawg, who is a Butler fan, posts a story about something Greg Marshall said you jump to the conclusion that all Valpo posters are upset at Marshall for saying what he did?
Really?!!!I agree with what Marshall said for the most part. It is a lot more exciting to play in places such as Orlando, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans and Cincinnati than playing in Peoria, Cedar Falls, Carbondale and Valpo. That is a true reality of playing in the AAC instead of the MVC. That doesn't change the fact that the current MVC is a much better conference than the current Horizon League. Valpo did lay an egg in the HL tournament this past year but Valpo did it without their best, and now NBA player, while Oakland did the same
WITH their best players.
Quote from: bbtds on October 21, 2017, 02:35:05 PMValpo did lay an egg in the HL tournament this past year but Valpo did it without their best, and now NBA player, while Oakland did the same WITH their best players.
The egg was laid without Alec OR Jabril. Nonetheless, it was still an egg.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 20, 2017, 11:40:11 AM
Wow. Kind of a dick move from Greg Marshall... It's the AAC, not the ACC. You can get a great steak anywhere.
https://twitter.com/DrMattSmithPT/status/921335002486530049
Quote from: bbtds on October 21, 2017, 02:35:05 PM
You're making a huge leap there. Just because Irishdawg, who is a Butler fan, posts a story about something Greg Marshall said you jump to the conclusion that all Valpo posters are upset at Marshall for saying what he did? Really?!!!
I mentioned the Gregg comments. I'm totally cool with WSU moving to another conference (VU was the beneficiary of their move anyways). WSU is doing what they thought is best for their situation.
I thought it was a dick move of the Coach (not the fans) to take a parting shot at communities where his former conference-mates played in. But where the heck is Grizz making the connection to Oakland here? ???
Grizz takes everything as a slight to OU. Its not like Valpo fans don't know we've haven't had the success we wanted at the last 2 MCM. 15-16 we were cold in the semis and GB was hot and we lost to a team we should beat. 16-17 we had no Peters, no jubril and Shane was sick/hurt (the expectations were lowered). I think most of us have moved on. Oakland is one scarred & insecure fan-base to think most Valpo fans are even thinking about them right now.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 21, 2017, 05:12:15 PM
I mentioned the Gregg comments. I'm totally cool with WSU moving to another conference (VU was the beneficiary of their move anyways). WSU is doing what they thought is best for their situation.
I thought it was a dick move of the Coach (not the fans) to take a parting shot at communities where his former conference-mates played in. But where the heck is Grizz making the connection to Oakland here? ???
Grizz takes everything as a slight to OU. Its not like Valpo fans don't know we've haven't had the success we wanted at the last 2 MCM. 15-16 we were cold in the semis and GB was hot and we lost to a team we should beat. 16-17 we had no Peters, no jubril and Shane was sick/hurt (the expectations were lowered). I think most of us have moved on. Oakland is one scarred & insecure fan-base to think most Valpo fans are even thinking about them right now.
Well said. Valpo may have moved on to greener pastures, but coaches/fans are classy enough to not take shots at the Horizon League on their way out. Oakland fans are just jealous of Valpo's dominance of the Horizon that led to getting the invite to the MVC. All Oakland fans have to hang onto is their 2-game win streak over Valpo ... hope they enjoy that while they're languishing in the Horizon.
Wow. Indiana State beat Illinois in its private scrimmage yesterday. The score was 79-77. Illinois isn't expected to be very good this season but their still a Big 10 team. It's only a scrimmage but still interesting.
I pegged Indiana State for 8th in the league. Maybe I should reconsider them finishing higher.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/922467416923344896
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/922468779476553728
Not good news for Oakland. Knowing the NCAA they won't rule on the appeal till the last few games of the season. If there was ever a year for this to happen it would be this year for them because they have enough senior talent to cover for him.
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/922903069888724992
4 games??????????? And Jubril got how many for one paper?
Four games for what? What is a grade issue? It is kind of funny that the season hasn't even started and already we are hearing of problems within the Oakland program. Is it just me or does it seem that they have a problem of one kind or another almost every year?
An "A" in African Studies? What could be wrong with that? ;)
👀 👀 👀 👀
https://twitter.com/BUBrianWardle/status/922953023424524291
A really interesting interview with Valparaiso native Roger Harden talking about the history of how shoe companies became intertwined with College Basketball and the NCAA. I remember talking with a Valparaiso native who said Roger was Bryce Drew before Bryce Drew was Bryce Drew, but Bryce became a bigger local star/hero because he stayed home to play his college ball at Valpo and went on to coach here. It's a really insightful interview.
https://oscarcombs.com/2017/10/podcats-episode-11-oscar-and-roger-harden-on-shoe-companies/
Quote from: VU2014 on October 24, 2017, 11:15:22 PM
A really interesting interview with Valparaiso native Roger Harden talking about the history of how shoe companies became intertwined with College Basketball and the NCAA. I remember talking with a Valparaiso native who said Roger was Bryce Drew before Bryce Drew was Bryce Drew, but Bryce became a bigger local star/hero because he stayed home to play his college ball at Valpo and went on to coach here. It's a really insightful interview.
https://oscarcombs.com/2017/10/podcats-episode-11-oscar-and-roger-harden-on-shoe-companies/
I've long thought that Scott Skiles was more deserving of the 1982 Mr. Basketball award than Roger (although Roger was obviously a great player). However, two things played into Harden's favor. First, at that time, ballots for Mr. Basketball were due before the state tournament, thus nullifying the impact of Skiles' performance in leading Plymouth to the state title. Secondly, Harden was featured prominently on the cover of "Hoosier Basketball" magazine before the season. In the pre-internet era, the magazine had some level of influence on voters who didn't have the opportunity to see kids in all corners of the state. I always wondered if Harden's place on the cover had anything to due with the back cover, which featured a full page Converse shoe ad ... the most expensive ad location in the entire magazine.
Good thing Brock is back to help cover the 4 game suspension of Hayes.
Quote from: zvillehaze on October 25, 2017, 09:42:44 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 24, 2017, 11:15:22 PM
A really interesting interview with Valparaiso native Roger Harden talking about the history of how shoe companies became intertwined with College Basketball and the NCAA. I remember talking with a Valparaiso native who said Roger was Bryce Drew before Bryce Drew was Bryce Drew, but Bryce became a bigger local star/hero because he stayed home to play his college ball at Valpo and went on to coach here. It's a really insightful interview.
https://oscarcombs.com/2017/10/podcats-episode-11-oscar-and-roger-harden-on-shoe-companies/
I've long thought that Scott Skiles was more deserving of the 1982 Mr. Basketball award than Roger (although Roger was obviously a great player). However, two things played into Harden's favor. First, at that time, ballots for Mr. Basketball were due before the state tournament, thus nullifying the impact of Skiles' performance in leading Plymouth to the state title. Secondly, Harden was featured prominently on the cover of "Hoosier Basketball" magazine before the season. In the pre-internet era, the magazine had some level of influence on voters who didn't have the opportunity to see kids in all corners of the state. I always wondered if Harden's place on the cover had anything to due with the back cover, which featured a full page Converse shoe ad ... the most expensive ad location in the entire magazine.
I've always heard there is a ton of politics that go into Indiana High School Basketball awards, especially geographic politics.
Side Note: I always thought Scott Skiles was a natural fit for College Coaching. He's a true teacher of the game but he's a really intense coach but that coaching style wanes on professional players but would be perfect for College kids. He always seem to burn out at places quickly in the NBA. I'm not sure he'd want to go on the road and recruit kids, especially these days with all the BS college coaches have to deal with, with all the outside influences and transfer poaching these days. I think Scott Skiles would be a coaching star in college basketball, particularly if he landed with a Indiana College where he has history in the State. He'd be able to recruit Indiana really well.
Quote from: oklahomamick on October 25, 2017, 10:02:22 AM
Good thing Brock is back to help cover the 4 game suspension of Hayes.
Had not seen or heard anything about Brock coming back. Did you see this in the media somewhere? I see he is listed on the roster, but none of the preseason articles that I saw mentioned his name.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
https://twitter.com/brauf33/status/923211445055221761
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/923214338047053826
This is fun: the Milwaukee Bucks are playing at the UWM Panther arena tonight. They are playing on a throwback floor - the old MECCA floor designed by Robert Indiana.
http://www.espn.com/30for30/film?page=mecca
UWM should play on this court.
Quote from: FWalum on October 25, 2017, 11:07:51 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on October 25, 2017, 10:02:22 AM
Good thing Brock is back to help cover the 4 game suspension of Hayes.
Had not seen or heard anything about Brock coming back. Did you see this in the media somewhere? I see he is listed on the roster, but none of the preseason articles that I saw mentioned his name.
Sounds like he may originally have dropped off the team to place total focus on his education. Then a serious injury to Brechting may have changed his mind again. We should try to keep in mind that this young man is already a 23 year old sophomore, with few if any pro dreams who struggled with grades in HS and was granted college eligibility only after an appeal. In that light it seems to all make sense to me.
Wow its only preseason but Liberty just handily beat VCU.
https://twitter.com/CC_Report/status/923720646592303104
Actually, it just amounts to adding one more small facet to the game experience. IMO that would be way behind...
Improved (i.e., close) parking
New fold-away seat backs for all the lower sections (except for the Valparaizone)
Moving the access to concessions from the gym floor to the back wall to the corridor (in line with adding beer to the offerings)
Adding fold-away seat back bleachers to the east baseline
Improved PA system
[/quote]
What is the objection to the concession stand being on the gym floor?
The concession stand open to the main floor prevents the installation of permanent bleachers that would match the west baseline of the court and complete the lower bowl. Aesthetically, that might also help to reduce to some extent the criticism of the ARC looking like a HS gym. Right now, they bring in some temporary ones every now and again, but at most it adds maybe 50 seats and it really does look like a HS gym when they do that.
I would have to think we will see some sort of seating changes to the lower bowl in the near future. If Dr. Heckler is half as excited as he seemed to be when I talked to him about the MVC move then despite the fact that he also told me donors would be the driving force behind any ARC changes, I think they have to make some ARC improvements rather quickly and seating improvements would seem to be the most logical. Ah... and I guess air conditioning might also be on that list... almost forgot.
How about the recent lottery winner form the Valpo area kicking in a couple mil for seating changes in the ARC. Where arerrrr youuu?
10 mid-major sleepers you should know for the 2017-18 season
Which mid-majors should you keep an eye on this season?
http://thecomeback.com/ncaa/10-mid-major-sleepers-know-2017-18-season.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Missouri State makes their 10 mid-major "sleepers". I wouldn't even call them a sleeper but I guess for the casual Power Conference fan they're a "sleeper".
Missouri State is going to be a tough matchup for Valpo this season. 3 freshman forwards doesn't sound like favorable matchup defending against Alize Johnson who is the preseason MVC player of the year.
I don't know if they would be guarding him, he is not a prototypical 4. He will cause matchup problems because he is a get and go type player much more that Alex was. I would think that Burton may end up guarding him. Here is an interesting article that I have not seen mentioned before. I never liked having a player start the season with this type of injury, especially if they rely heavily on athleticism. Star Out With Knee Injury (http://www.news-leader.com/story/sports/college/msu/2017/10/19/msu-mens-basketball-star-alize-johnson-out-knee-injury/777486001/)
It is evident from the article that Alize has a lot of work ahead of him to be taken seriously as an MVC star. He needs a lot of work on his smile. ;D
Quote from: FWalum on October 30, 2017, 06:54:05 PMStar Out With Knee Injury
Johnson told the News-Leader he tweaked his knee after he went up for a dunk.Those dunks make basketball an exciting sport but at what cost? It makes me cringe when a Valpo player should have an easy lay up but instead goes for the dunk and misses the dunk because he tries to entertain the fans with a demonstrative effort.
It reminds me of UDM's Anderson who went for a demonstrative dunk against Valpo on a fast break and because of his winding up for the dunk was caught by Bobby Capobianco and flagrantly fouled. Anderson missed the dunk and Capo was ejected but the momentum of the game was changed. Valpo came back from a 22 point deficit to win by one, I believe. All this was due to the show boating of Anderson on the dunk which he could have easily scored with a lay up.
Quote from: bbtds on October 31, 2017, 05:27:09 AM
Quote from: FWalum on October 30, 2017, 06:54:05 PMStar Out With Knee Injury
Johnson told the News-Leader he tweaked his knee after he went up for a dunk.
Those dunks make basketball an exciting sport but at what cost? It makes me cringe when a Valpo player should have an easy lay up but instead goes for the dunk and misses the dunk because he tries to entertain the fans with a demonstrative effort.
Cover your eyes when you watch Markus Golder this year. From the highlights in JUCO he's not afraid throw down some in game dunks. I wondering how ready Markus is this season. He shot the ball from 3 pretty well in JUCO. It will be interesting to see how he fits into the mix this season.
QuoteIt makes me cringe when a Valpo player should have an easy lay up but instead goes for the dunk and misses the dunk because he tries to entertain the fans with a demonstrative effort.
The numbers don't back this up. The dunk is the absolute highest-percentage shot in basketball (assuming you can dunk it). Statistically, you're far more likely to miss a layup. I mean, how often did we see Vashil miss a bunny when it would have been far easier for him to dunk it?
(Also, guys get injured in all kinds of ways. Going up for a rebound in traffic and coming down on another player's foot is one of the most common. Should our guys not try to rebound now?)
Quote from: VU2014 on October 31, 2017, 09:36:02 AM
Quote from: bbtds on October 31, 2017, 05:27:09 AM
Quote from: FWalum on October 30, 2017, 06:54:05 PMStar Out With Knee Injury
Johnson told the News-Leader he tweaked his knee after he went up for a dunk.
Those dunks make basketball an exciting sport but at what cost? It makes me cringe when a Valpo player should have an easy lay up but instead goes for the dunk and misses the dunk because he tries to entertain the fans with a demonstrative effort.
Cover your eyes when you watch Markus Golder this year. From the highlights in JUCO he's not afraid throw down some in game dunks. I wondering how ready Markus is this season. He shot the ball from 3 pretty well in JUCO. It will be interesting to see how he fits into the mix this season.
Hate to use catch phrases, but he's a dark horse for us. Means the difference between (4) athletes on the floor or (3). In the HL he would've been a must (guard heavier league), in the MVC that's tbd.
It sounds likely local NWI (Crown Point) product Sasha Stefanovic (former Valpo recruit) will be Red-Shirted his true freshman year at Purdue according to Purdue beat-reporter Nathan Baird.
Start: (3:25-5:08) http://on.jconline.com/2iRjlGG
In the video he says it can benefit players down the road if they potentially want to transfer and they get another year of physical growth. If Sasha were to Red-Shirt he'd likely be fighting for minutes on the depth chart next year as well at the SG position with Ryan Cline would be SR, Nojel Eastern SO., & their 2018 commitment Eric Hunter, Jr.
http://www.jconline.com/story/sports/blogs/nathan-baird/2017/10/11/purdue-basketball-2017-18-preseason-capsules/747990001/
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Quote from: VU2014 on November 02, 2017, 10:16:06 AM
It sounds likely local NWI (Crown Point) product Sasha Stefanovic (former Valpo recruit) will be Red-Shirted his true freshman year at Purdue according to Purdue beat-reporter Nathan Baird.
Start: (3:25-5:08) http://on.jconline.com/2iRjlGG
In the video he says it can benefit players down the road if they potentially want to transfer and they get another year of physical growth. If Sasha were to Red-Shirt he'd likely be fighting for minutes on the depth chart next year as well at the SG position with Ryan Cline would be SR, Nojel Eastern SO., & their 2018 commitment Eric Hunter, Jr.
http://www.jconline.com/story/sports/blogs/nathan-baird/2017/10/11/purdue-basketball-2017-18-preseason-capsules/747990001/
Well, redshirting does set up a potential grad-transfer situation (4 years down the road, if the rule still exists). However, it totally screws him if he realizes after this season, or next, or the next, that he doesn't want to be there. If he decides to transfer to another DI at that point, he'll not only sit a year, but lose a year under the "4 in 5" rule.
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 02, 2017, 11:11:44 AM
Well, redshirting does set up a potential grad-transfer situation (4 years down the road, if the rule still exists). However, it totally screws him if he realizes after this season, or next, or the next, that he doesn't want to be there. If he decides to transfer to another DI at that point, he'll not only sit a year, but lose a year under the "4 in 5" rule.
That's one of the transfer rules that should be changed. If they red-shirt one year due to a non-injury they should let kids transfer immediately or allow them the extra year of eligibility. That would be a rational transfer change instead of the rumored blanket across the board transfer immediately change the idiots in the NCAA are supposedly considering.
I could actually see Sasha sticking it out at Purdue regardless of minutes his first few years. It was the worst kept recruiting secret in NWI about how badly he wanted a offer from Purdue last year. He was apparently very close to committing to Valpo before Purdue jumped in last second and offered. Objectively I thought Valpo was the better Basketball fit in terms of being able to get early playing time & development as opposed to a Purdue but somethings are more important than others to certain kids. Best of luck to him in West Lafayette, I hope he gets to see some minutes early on in his career because he's too good of a player to be wasted on any teams bench.
https://twitter.com/theblakelovell/status/926275202035671040
(https://i.giphy.com/media/l0IynvPneUpb7SnBe/giphy.webp)
Some Pearl Wisdoms: "I think we were rushed and discombobulated. It was a good exhibition and it was good exposure for us. It showed a lot of our weaknesses."
As a team, the Barry Bucs made 16 3-pointers, including eight make by Sawyer Glick (OK, one of my new top-10 basketball names of all time)
The Tigers held a 41-38 lead heading into halftime and led by the same margin at 84-81 in the final seconds. However, a three by Glick at the buzzer went through the net and forced the game into overtime.
In the extra period, Auburn was outscored 16-11 and fell by a final score of 100-95.
Coach Ragland's alma mater Southern Indiana upsets Coach Dildy's alma mater EIU today in a exhibition. I'm sure there will be some humble bragging tomorrow morning at work.
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/927769931504128000
Side Note: I think USI is going to join the Horizon League at some point in the relatively near future. There have been rumblings that their admin wants to become the next NKU and make the jump from D2. If the HL lost another member or 2 or plans on expanding to 12, I could see USI becoming a potential LeCrone type add in the future.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 02, 2017, 10:50:31 PM
https://twitter.com/theblakelovell/status/926275202035671040
(https://i.giphy.com/media/l0IynvPneUpb7SnBe/giphy.webp)
Auburn basketball holds out two players amid FBI investigationNovember 2, 2017 12:08pm
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/news/chuck-person-arrested-auburn-basketball-two-players-out-indefinitely-fbi-investigation/1uo8utw2wqr2y12czmp284xsvj
Alabama also sat out a 5-star connected to the FBI investigation.
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/927693803871334400
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/927894566904221697
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/josh-pastner-georgia-tech-accused-of-underplaying-violations-by-jilted-friend/
To be honest it's about time some of these P5 players have to sit out games instead of getting by with violation after violation without punishment. It is incredibly unfortunate that it was the "real punishing" FBI that has to do the investigation instead of the "looking the other way" NCAA.
A good college basketball preview article.
https://twitter.com/HoopvilleAdam/status/927984938791636992
Three UCLA players arrested in China for theft, causing an international incident and embarrassment for the NCAA. It will be interesting to see what happens in this case.
[size=78%]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ucla-china/ucla-basketball-players-arrested-in-china-could-stay-for-months-espn-idUSKBN1D83A9 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ucla-china/ucla-basketball-players-arrested-in-china-could-stay-for-months-espn-idUSKBN1D83A9)[/size]
The NCAA told the UCLA players.................
(http://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2Fmotion%2F2017%2F0321%2Fdm_170321_svp_dont_do_that%2Fdm_170321_svp_dont_do_that.jpg)
College Basketball needs more coaches like Frank Martin.
https://twitter.com/John_DelBianco/status/928348025734549504
Martin: 'I wasn't going to say no' to Wofford matchup
Frank Martin is kicking himself this week in trying to prepare for Wofford, but he knows agreeing to the matchup was the right thing to do as a "grower of basketball."
By: John Del Bianco
Date: Nov 9, 2017
https://247sports.com/college/south-carolina/Article/South-Carolina-Gamecocks-head-coach-Frank-Martin-could-not-say-no-to-road-game-with-Wofford--110157572
In reading the article, it turns out that P-5 USC will travel to mid-major Wofford as a favor to open their brand new Jerry Richardson Indoor Stadium. Checked out the place on line and it is pretty spectacular -- albeit the seating is for only 3400+. Wish Valpo had an NFL owner alumnus to foot a bill like that.
I think the article shows how important personal relationships are in NCAA basketball scheduling. There's 300+ other teams you can work with to schedule a handful of non-conference games ... it's just human nature that you'd choose the coaches/schools you like and respect, while staying away from the ones you don't.
This type of thing isn't unheard of ... I remember that IU played at Evansville a few years back in a dedication game for the Ford Center.
In another example, I just noticed that ND will be playing at University of Delaware in December. Mike Brey is a former head coach at Delaware and Delaware's HC Martin Inglesby was both a player and coach for Brey at ND.
Quote from: zvillehaze on November 09, 2017, 02:44:28 PM
I think the article shows how important personal relationships are in NCAA basketball scheduling. There's 300+ other teams you can work with to schedule a handful of non-conference games ... it's just human nature that you'd choose the coaches/schools you like and respect, while staying away from the ones you don't.
This type of thing isn't unheard of ... I remember that IU played at Evansville a few years back in a dedication game for the Ford Center.
True and Notre Dame played at Valpo to open the ARC. I'm sure they would be willing to come again when the New ARC is unveiled! ::)
A really good Mid-Major primer. They break down a lot of teams Valpo will play this season. These guys are some of the best college basketball follows on twitter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e70p2eJP9rk
Wow. What a time to announce your going to be a grad-transfer. The first day of College Basketball you tell your coach and teammates your transferring. He only spent 2 years at Dartmouth. I have mixed feelings about the grad-transfer rule. I see pros & cons for both the student-athlete and the sport of college basketball as a whole.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/929021929721401344
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/929022144381628417
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/929473102827761664
Former Valpo recruit Sasha Stefanovic was officially redshirted at Purdue.
https://twitter.com/BoilerBall/status/929124698532864000
https://twitter.com/WongSportsLaw/status/930469225717747712
Sounds like Bryce got pretty emotional when Dairus Garland (5-star PG) committed.
https://twitter.com/vuhustlersports/status/930182103152709632
To VU2014:
You are an amazing source of interesting information about anything and everything - a man among posters! Just wanted you to know.
wh :thumbsup:
Thanks WH. I appreciate the kind words.
Never been a question on Bryce's ability to recruit.
A Steve McClain special. UIC with the more talented roster loses at home to IPFW. They may be conference-mates in the near future.
Side Note: just checked IPFW's roster and former Valpo recruit/Chesterton native Matt Holba is a RS transfer at IPFW now. A nice pick up for them. I could see Valpo scheduling IPFW at some point during the next 2 seasons and him & Fazekas might get a chance to square off again on the court.
https://twitter.com/ChrisDobbertean/status/932022217692602368
I have a few co-workers who are UIC alums and they mentioned this week that there was some chatter that UIC was hoping to get a invite to the MVC if they chose to expand to 12.
No thanks.
Concordia-St Paul 69
Milwaukee Panthers 55
Ouch!
Toledo - 87
Oakland - 74
The "Fighting Kampes" potentially took a hit to their at-large resume today. A rough day for everyone in the Horizon League other then NKU.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 18, 2017, 09:55:55 PM
Toledo - 87
Oakland - 74
The "Fighting Kampes" potentially took a hit to their at-large resume today. A rough day for everyone in the Horizon League other then NKU.
Apparently, Jalen Hayes missed the game as part of a 4-game suspension:
https://www.fanragsports.com/rothstein-jalen-hayes-to-miss-oaklands-first-four-games/amp/
Quote from: VU2014 on November 14, 2017, 10:17:26 AM
https://twitter.com/WongSportsLaw/status/930469225717747712
Investigation of a Bruce Pearl program? I'm shocked!
https://youtu.be/SjbPi00k_ME
Quote from: wh on November 19, 2017, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 18, 2017, 09:55:55 PM
Toledo - 87
Oakland - 74
The "Fighting Kampes" potentially took a hit to their at-large resume today. A rough day for everyone in the Horizon League other then NKU.
Apparently, Jalen Hayes missed the game as part of a 4-game suspension:
https://www.fanragsports.com/rothstein-jalen-hayes-to-miss-oaklands-first-four-games/amp/
According to the article, Jalen Hayes was suspended for getting a 2.5 in one class when his major requires you to get a 2.8 in all classes and he is carrying a 2.9 overall GPA. There are a lot of valid reasons to punish a student-athlete, but this seems pretty harsh.
In regards to Bruce Pearl, I can't believe that Auburn wouldn't fire him for not cooperating with an investigation. What sort of institution allows an employee/manager/coach/etc. to choose to not cooperate with its own investigation? I guess that answer is: Auburn.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 19, 2017, 10:46:12 AM
Quote from: wh on November 19, 2017, 09:33:29 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 18, 2017, 09:55:55 PM
Toledo - 87
Oakland - 74
The "Fighting Kampes" potentially took a hit to their at-large resume today. A rough day for everyone in the Horizon League other then NKU.
Apparently, Jalen Hayes missed the game as part of a 4-game suspension:
https://www.fanragsports.com/rothstein-jalen-hayes-to-miss-oaklands-first-four-games/amp/ (https://www.fanragsports.com/rothstein-jalen-hayes-to-miss-oaklands-first-four-games/amp/)
According to the article, Jalen Hayes was suspended for getting a 2.5 in one class when his major requires you to get a 2.8 in all classes and he is carrying a 2.9 overall GPA. There are a lot of valid reasons to punish a student-athlete, but this seems pretty harsh.
Yes, the punishment is worse than that given players at other programs for greater offenses. In addition it seems a bit arbitrary for the NCAA since the standard applies only to a particular major. Not knowing the specifics and suspicious of the completeness in the facts given, I still wonder if he had declared a switch of majors (could always switch back in the future), he possibly could have maintained eligibility in the eyes of the NCAA. If so, that would further the arbitrariness of this situation. Of course, he would also have to put off graduation from December to May.
Milwaukee pulls out a victory over Elon playing to a mostly empty gym. Also this happened:
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401000129
The closer we get to it the more winnable that game looks. Hopefully we can do as some of our brothers in the MVC have done and score a P5 victory!
Geez, NU is beatable for us.
Northwestern will probably lose their Top 25 status in next weeks AP poll. Hopefully they remain strong. Definitely agree that we should have a shot at winning that Northwestern game. They're a good team but they aren't a dominant team. You can tell they're still trying to find their defense and as offense mainly runs through Bryant McIntosh. So if you can slow him down then we can probably increase our chances of pulling out the win.
Hopefully we have a strong crowd for that Northwestern game on the road. It's not too far of a drive from Valpo and we have a large Chicago Alumni base.
Oakland plays Syracuse tonight. Jalen Hayes is also sitting out the last game of his academic suspension tonight. Tough game to play without him. They may be trying a last ditch social media effort to have him get the suspension reduced before the game, because the NCAA is known it cave when the outrage is large enough. I don't know the whole story here, but apparently he had 2.5 GPA in a class and he was ruled ineligible.
They should still have a shot because this is a weak Syracuse team, but they still carry a big name.
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/931676307599044608
https://twitter.com/KampeOU/status/931676891223875586
https://twitter.com/KampeOU/status/932721290494054405
interesting
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/932728646846111746
Upset alert
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/932751132350443520
This would be the Cal that our future opponent, UC Riverside beat in the road. Let's see if it holds up.
I didn't know Bears choke except for the ones in Chicago
Coach Kampe,
The NCAA is listening alright. They are listening to the dollars go into the bank accounts of schools like UK, UCLA, Alabama, Texas, Etc. When Oakland shouts out it's like one of a million trees falling in the forest.
Did anyone hear anything about why the Detroit-Mercy's head coach was suspended? Recruiting violation? The Detroit-Mercy athletics department is refusing to comment publicly about it.
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/932754871337586688
https://twitter.com/Matt_Schoch_/status/932774149931585536
Something smells fishy about this...
(https://i.giphy.com/media/xTiIzMvevaoCXJk7HG/giphy.webp)
Quote from: bbtds on November 18, 2017, 06:00:23 PM
Concordia-St Paul 69
Milwaukee Panthers 55
Ouch!
UWM rebounded with a win over D-I Elon. They sit at 4-1.
Wow. The Vanderbilt staff just landed their 2nd 5 star recruit for next years class and they're still in the Romeo Langford's Top 3 who is another Top 3 recruit. Holy cow. :o
Bryce, Roger, Jake and Casey are getting work done in the recruiting department.
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/933389138094587909
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/933388860083417090
https://twitter.com/coreyevans_10/status/933388031326814208
https://twitter.com/ebosshoops/status/933388519816474625
https://twitter.com/PlayersTribune/status/933387186652700672
All it took was someone to have solid recruiting chops, to do this at Vanderbilt. You get a fantastic education (for however long you stay), and they have the money/facilities to compete on a consistent basis in the SEC.
Quote from: valpotx on November 22, 2017, 11:58:36 AM
All it took was someone to have solid recruiting chops, to do this at Vanderbilt. You get a fantastic education (for however long you stay), and they have the money/facilities to compete on a consistent basis in the SEC.
The two 5-stars they landed won't be there for more then 2 years tops. Vandy was a sleeping giant before and with this coaching staff they are finally waking waking up. They're facilities are amazing and they have DEEP pockets. Bryce picked a nice spot to land. Haha remember when Bryce was offered the Bradley job and he turned it down? I remember Bradley fans being mystified that he'd turn them down.
Roger Powell's name will likely start getting talked about for head coaching jobs the next few years. I don't want see him land with DePaul's dysfunctional admin/AD but he'd be an outstanding hire there once they realize bringing back Leitao for the 2nd time won't get the job done, if Coach Powell would want the job.
Jake Diebler will also be a great head coach one day.
Purdue is in a tough OT battle with Tennessee. I hope they pull it out. I don't want to ruin our chance to play against a ranked opponent and unbeaten would be better.
It sounds vaguely similar to the Valparaiso High School Football coach situation. I need to know what was said to know if it justifies a firing. I'm reserving judgement for now. It would have to be very cruel, nasty & reprehensible to justify a firing. If it was just some tough love coach talk then it would be ridiculous to fire him, imo. But we don't know what was said.
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/933386288786526213
Quote from: VU2014 on November 22, 2017, 11:44:44 AM
Wow. The Vanderbilt staff just landed their 2nd 5 star recruit for next years class and they're still in the Romeo Langford's Top 3 who is another Top 3 recruit. Holy cow. :o
Bryce, Roger, Jake and Casey are getting work done in the recruiting department.
Ummm... Don't we have to play them next year or the year after? I mean, I am happy for them, but this game just became a borderline automatic loss, even if it is at home. haha
Bryce and roger can recruit no doubt. So can Scott at Baylor. Remember Baylor before Scott?
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 22, 2017, 02:59:24 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 22, 2017, 11:44:44 AM
Wow. The Vanderbilt staff just landed their 2nd 5 star recruit for next years class and they're still in the Romeo Langford's Top 3 who is another Top 3 recruit. Holy cow. :o
Bryce, Roger, Jake and Casey are getting work done in the recruiting department.
Ummm... Don't we have to play them next year or the year after? I mean, I am happy for them, but this game just became a borderline automatic loss, even if it is at home. haha
it was just speculation that the series would start next season. i kind of hope it doesn't start next season after hearing this recent recruiting news... i mean you never know. i could see bryce want to start the series at valpo next season to give darius garland a game in his native state in his likely one season at school also same with romeo langford if they land him over iu. we'll just have to wait and see.
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 22, 2017, 03:44:28 PM
Bryce and roger can recruit no doubt. So can Scott at Baylor. Remember Baylor before Scott?
scott has had an eye for uncovering diamonds in the rough and baylor is a perennial power now that he can consistently go after 4 and 5 star guys.
Detroit Mercy beats St. Louis. Do we still want them? Tawk amongst yourselves.
Like it or not as a conference composed of a mix of public and private schools the MVC is going to need to find private schools in order to expand because the private member schools aren't going to want to cede too much power to the public schools. Sadly, the list of viable private schools within the conference footprint is small and (mostly) bad. Here are the reasonable (and some rather unreasonable )options:
UDM (bad team Requires travel partner so they'd have to add Oakland Not sure if schools like Missouri State and Southern Illinois would go for that kind of northeastward expansion UDM doesn't offer every MVC sport)
Oral Roberts (bad team but good in other sports like baseball) Basketball program has some history of success but not recent Potential exists to be a strong add but will take time if it ever happens Gives Missouri State a reasonable travel partner Could be a desperation add if the private schools don't budge on the need for balance but this won't make the publics happy nor is it likely to make the conference better
Grand Canyon: BIG potential but WAY out of footprint Not gonna happen For-profit status also an issue
Denver: Out of footprint Don't bring much as a program Hard pass
Belmont: For reasons unknown they need convincing They'd be perfect though
SLU: They SHOULD be in the Valley but they need to be convinced that life in the Valley is better than life in the A10 which appears to be a tall order if you listen to their fanbase. Their Big East aspirations which could be served by moving to the Valley could prove problematic because of the perception that it is easier to get there from the A10 than the Valley (Creighton begs to differ )
Dayton: Unlike SLU they have actually performed well in the A10 on a consistent basis and they are not a severe geographic outlier for the A10 like SLU is Furthermore they have big East aspirations as well Convincing themto move to the Valley will be harder than convincing SLU
When the MVC added Valpo, Commissioner Elgin said the decision to expand beyond 10 will be based on "...whether or not there are programs out there that would increase the possibility of getting at-large bids." That's a very high bar that essentially excludes every program in the Midwest except Dayton and St. Louis.
Being selective to the extreme makes perfect sense. IMO, to even consider programs like Milwaukee or Detroit anytime in the foreseeable future would be ridiculous. They're far more likely to have another major misstep or scandal before they ever become at-large timber.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv0iA0NccWw
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 22, 2017, 03:44:28 PM
Bryce and roger can recruit no doubt. So can Scott at Baylor. Remember Baylor before Scott?
Otherwise known as BBS. And if you add in a couple other initials it becomes bbtds. :thumbsup:
Purdue is dominating the #2 Arizona right now. If they win this game it will probably keep them in the Top 25 for next weeks polls.
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/934266009493454848
Arizona must be the most overrated team in college basketball. They're about to suffer their 3rd straight loss.
Oakland got obliterated tonight by Kansas 102-59.
Going into Allen Fieldhouse like... (http://cdn.list25.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/failgif7.gif)
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989177
Wh: I would add Belmont Murray State Northern Kentucky North Dakota State and South Dakota State and (although they are out of the footprint) New Mexico State and Grand Canyon to your list of programs that could help increase the chances of an at-large bid.Conferences that get at large bids have either:
1-2 exceptional teams OR
Multiple strong teams (30-50 RPI range) reinforced by a strong second layer ( At least 3-4 teams between 60-110 the more to the higher side the better ) and a solid third layer(3-4 teams 130-160) and no true bottom feeders. The recent history of all these programs suggests that they can contribute well to this conference and would make the MVC a better league. We should aim as high as we can and not rush though.
Quote from: Valpower on November 22, 2017, 01:16:22 PM
Purdue is in a tough OT battle with Tennessee. I hope they pull it out. I don't want to ruin our chance to play against a ranked opponent and unbeaten would be better.
I have a feeling that is what Matt Painter was saying during our close game with Kent State tonight/Friday.
Quote from: historyman on November 24, 2017, 11:28:41 PM
Quote from: Valpower on November 22, 2017, 01:16:22 PM
Purdue is in a tough OT battle with Tennessee. I hope they pull it out. I don't want to ruin our chance to play against a ranked opponent and unbeaten would be better.
I have a feeling that is what Matt Painter was saying during our close game with Kent State tonight/Friday.
Raw RPI really only matters for automatic bids - the selection committee typically seeds the 12-16 seeds roughly by RPI. For power conference schools, the only metric that really matters is quantity of top 25 wins. So Purdue coaches and fans probably don't care too much about Valpo's RPI. It's not really going to affect their seed line.
So your contention is then that if we somehow finish the nonconference season unblemished win the MVC regular season title but don't win the tournament we'd still have no chance at an at-large unless Purdue and Northwestern finish the season ranked? I don't buy that.
Looking forward to watching this matchup tomorrow. Not a fan Holtmann and I'm definitely NOT a fan of Butler basketball. I hope OSU runs them out of the gym. regardless should be a fun watch
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/934303532852719616
Wow. Oakland almost lost to Oral Roberts last night... ORU is 1-6 on the season. The game went to overtime. That would have been a soul-crushing loss not only because ORU stinks but because of they're old-rivals. This is not the way OU fans wanted to begin their season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989314
It's pretty classless to heckle a man's family. Not cool.
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/935970070580334593
What, are you saying that Butler fans are actually terrible despite spending years wrapping themselves in self-righteousness about the wholesomeness of their "Way," a la St. Louis Cardinals fans? I'm stunned. :-\
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on November 29, 2017, 03:00:33 PM
What, are you saying that Butler fans are actually terrible despite spending years wrapping themselves in self-righteousness about the wholesomeness of their "Way," a la St. Louis Cardinals Green Bay Packer fans? I'm stunned. :-\
Not something you see every day. A player (respectfully) calling out their fans/students for not showing up and supporting the team. UTA is a good team.
https://twitter.com/erickneal01/status/936107815688654848
As VU2014 and Matt Norlander correctly noted, there were a few Butler "fans" who had absolutely no class. That does not mean that Butler fans, in general, lack class. I would agree that other Butler fans around the people heckling coaches and players should have encouraged them to stop (perhaps they did).
Some people here get really put off by the "Butler way". Isn't there a "Valpo way" that just lacks the branding? I am sure that some fans from other schools in the Horizon League think of Valpo like some here might think of Butler.
Regarding the posts on Oakland...I saw their game against Kansas. While getting blown out at Kansas could happen to a lot of schools, it was apparent that there was no team concept or effort from any of the Oakland players. Kendrick Nunn was just jacking up shots to make himself look good and no one played any meaningful defense. Things may change, but it looked to me like Kampe has lost that team.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 30, 2017, 09:15:34 AMRegarding the posts on Oakland...I saw their game against Kansas. While getting blown out at Kansas could happen to a lot of schools, it was apparent that there was no team concept or effort from any of the Oakland players. Kendrick Nunn was just jacking up shots to make himself look good and no one played any meaningful defense. Things may change, but it looked to me like Kampe has lost that team.
I am glad that somebody said it. Really surprised that Coach Kampe let that happen, that was one of the worst games I have seen Oakland play. I have a lot of respect for Kampe, but he should have pulled the stars and let the bench players in, perhaps they would have shown some heart. The lack of effort in that game was astounding.
I have always felt that "King Kampe" coaching ability was over-rated. He has always had the players but has rarely put together a "team" that was as successful as predicted. I think he has had more teams that under-achieved as opposed to over-achieving. His longevity as OU's only coach doesn't make him an outstanding coach. For many of his years at OU they were not even a D-1 program. I sure would not want him as Coach at Valpo. I think that if he coached our "team" this year at Valpo our record would be no where near what it is today. His personal qualities far out shine his coaching abilities IMO.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 30, 2017, 08:50:07 AM
Not something you see every day. A player (respectfully) calling out their fans/students for not showing up and supporting the team. UTA is a good team.
https://twitter.com/erickneal01/status/936107815688654848
Never going to happen. UTA is a huge commuter school. My wife did her undergraduate work at UTA, being graduating from law school at the University of Houston. She says that no one ever attended UTA games of any type, and they have always been good at baseball.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 29, 2017, 12:16:41 PM
Wow. Oakland almost lost to Oral Roberts last night... ORU is 1-6 on the season. The game went to overtime. That would have been a soul-crushing loss not only because ORU stinks but because of they're old-rivals. This is not the way OU fans wanted to begin their season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989314
For the first time in awhile, ORU is not the favorite. They have a new head coach this season, after firing Scott Sutton. It was due time, the way things were going in Tulsa. I had some interest in ORU over the years, but after the move to the Southland, they lost their image. Yes, a lot of that was due to mismanagement of the university by the Roberts family, and the move had to be made for financial reasons, but it hurt their athletics a bit with a real baseball/basketball toughness compared to what they had in valpotx and me's college years.
Quote from: valporun on December 02, 2017, 10:23:11 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 29, 2017, 12:16:41 PM
Wow. Oakland almost lost to Oral Roberts last night... ORU is 1-6 on the season. The game went to overtime. That would have been a soul-crushing loss not only because ORU stinks but because of they're old-rivals. This is not the way OU fans wanted to begin their season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989314
For the first time in awhile, ORU is not the favorite. They have a new head coach this season, after firing Scott Sutton. It was due time, the way things were going in Tulsa. I had some interest in ORU over the years, but after the move to the Southland, they lost their image. Yes, a lot of that was due to mismanagement of the university by the Roberts family, and the move had to be made for financial reasons, but it hurt their athletics a bit with a real baseball/basketball toughness compared to what they had in valpotx and me's college years.
The way Scott Sutton was fired was not right. He was told his brother must go and he was not going to change his coaching staff for the admins. So he was fired. Why can't a head coach pick his staff? As long as they don't have criminal pasts or something in the background that makes them unemployable.
Quote from: bbtds on December 02, 2017, 11:53:35 AM
Quote from: valporun on December 02, 2017, 10:23:11 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 29, 2017, 12:16:41 PM
Wow. Oakland almost lost to Oral Roberts last night... ORU is 1-6 on the season. The game went to overtime. That would have been a soul-crushing loss not only because ORU stinks but because of they're old-rivals. This is not the way OU fans wanted to begin their season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989314
For the first time in awhile, ORU is not the favorite. They have a new head coach this season, after firing Scott Sutton. It was due time, the way things were going in Tulsa. I had some interest in ORU over the years, but after the move to the Southland, they lost their image. Yes, a lot of that was due to mismanagement of the university by the Roberts family, and the move had to be made for financial reasons, but it hurt their athletics a bit with a real baseball/basketball toughness compared to what they had in valpotx and me's college years.
The way Scott Sutton was fired was not right. He was told his brother must go and he was not going to change his coaching staff for the admins. So he was fired. Why can't a head coach pick his staff? As long as they don't have criminal pasts or something in the background that makes them unemployable.
ORU had some very strange recruiting rules enforced by the admin. Coaches were not allowed to recruit players with visible tattoos. Just so weird and out of touch, imo.
I never experienced the ORU rivalry but I know they had some good teams in the past but really have fallen on some hard times. It's not very common for
mid-major schools like Valpo & Oakland to have a rival all the way in Tulsa, Oklahoma. But the old Mid-Con was sort of all over the map after that mass exodus of teams back in 1994 I believe it was. It's hard to believe how good the old Mid-Con & Horizon League use to be before all the realignment. They both had strong programs in both of them.
I've heard fans toss around the idea of adding ORU to the MVC if they decided to go to 12. I'm not particularly on board with that idea given ORU's struggles.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 02, 2017, 12:40:58 PMORU had some very strange recruiting rules enforced by the admin. Coaches were not allowed to recruit players with no visible tattoos. Just so weird and out of touch, imo.
I'm actually good with that requirement but I know that you can't win with that rule in today's society. Scott Sutton recruited with the "no tattoo" rule for approximately 18 or less years. I think it affected his recruiting but he was able to live with it. My guess is that Scott's brother, Sean, did not profess his Christianity and therefore was ruled as unacceptable as a mentor by the ORU admins. But that is only a guess.
I've given Milwaukee a lot of crap on here for bad losses and I know they are a popular choice on here as an MVC expansion candidate, but I'm just a person who calls things as I see them. And they don't appear ready for this conference. In the spirit of fairness I have to call out one of my preferred additions: Belmont. Things started out great for then close losses to Washington and Providence and victories over Middle Tennessee and Vanderbilt had them looking like a sure at-large contender and a great potential addition to the MVC but after suffering a sweep at the hands of Lipscomb it seems fair to question them. I get that Lipscomb played up in those games and is having a strong season but there's no way Belmont should ever have been swept by them. Given their track record I'm still a heavy supporter of adding them but after this I am starting to believe that the danger of a falloff for them is very real and perhaps they aren't as safe as choice as I thought.
In other candidate news the inconsistency of the play of the Dakota schools also bothers me. I begin to wonder if maybe Murray State and Northern Kentucky is the best path forward for the conference
Some potentially good news for mid-majors. Lets hope the committee actually follows through with this come selection time.
https://twitter.com/TheAndyKatz/status/938076214073237504
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/938090747856916480
A pretty cool student tradition at the Taylor University basketball games. I wish we could get something going like this at Valpo. These things sort of need to happen organically but it could definitely work a Valpo.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2017/12/08/taylor-universitys-silent-night-holy-union-community-creativity-and-chaos/919137001/
https://twitter.com/espn/status/939296665026158600
https://twitter.com/JennaRWatson/status/939290783181627392
Despite the conclusion of the author I personally believe given how razor thin the margin was that the new tournament system would have pushed both Monmouth and Valpo into the field in 2016 while knocking Syracuse and Tulsa into the NIT.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/how-the-ncaa-tournament-selection-committee-is-changing-how-it-judges-teams/
Some first-rate jokes in the replies thread.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/941715249694199808
Clemson and David Skara on ESPN2 right now playing South Carolina for those who might be interested.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vufan75 on December 19, 2017, 06:21:30 PM
Clemson and David Skara on ESPN2 right now playing South Carolina for those who might be interested.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Just an observation, our new MVC compatriots very infrequently mention Valpo during their analysis of the state of the league (halftimes, pre games or post games).
They always show the MVC rankings and records, and we are plain as day at 9-3 yet not even a comment. Illinois State color commentator has not mentioned Valpo 1x in the four games I've watched.
It's very nearly a purposeful slight. Suppose it's their way of saying PROVE IT BOYS.
Note: This Ill State guy reminds me of Lou Holt...marbles in his mouth. Great guy, but good lord he butchers names.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 09, 2017, 10:58:41 AM
A pretty cool student tradition at the Taylor University basketball games. I wish we could get something going like this at Valpo. These things sort of need to happen organically but it could definitely work a Valpo.
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2017/12/08/taylor-universitys-silent-night-holy-union-community-creativity-and-chaos/919137001/
https://twitter.com/espn/status/939296665026158600
https://twitter.com/JennaRWatson/status/939290783181627392
It wouldn't work at VU because of the much smaller student turn out at games compared to TU's. BTW, Taylor's enrollment is about half of VU.
:rotfl:
https://twitter.com/WeatherManCam_/status/943582337090097157
Anyone else see the bs that TV Teddy Valentine pulled last night in the FSU/UNC game?! He's the worst.
Gary, IN native Eugene German is tearing it up at NIU this season. It looks like he only received 1 offer which was from NIU. He looks undersized and I'm not sure if there were grades issues or something. It blows my mind the kid only got 1 offer. He led the State of Indiana in scoring his junior and senior years and won earned 2015-16 Northwest Indiana Post-Tribune Player of the Year.
https://twitter.com/PostTribSports/status/949098963587788801
Anyone else find Robbie Hummel hard to stomach as an announcer? I have no reason to dislike him, but wow.
He makes uninformed statements and is really harsh sounding. Sort of feels like the guy at the party that everyone wishes would tone it down. Maybe we treat him like a "freshmen" announcer and he'll be better by his senior season!!!
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 07, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
Anyone else find Robbie Hummel hard to stomach as an announcer? I have no reason to dislike him, but wow.
He makes uninformed statements and is really harsh sounding. Sort of feels like the guy at the party that everyone wishes would tone it down. Maybe we treat him like a "freshmen" announcer and he'll be better by his senior season!!!
I listened to one his games a while back and thought he did a solid job. I think he does a really good job as a studio analyst for the Big 10 Network
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 07, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
Anyone else find Robbie Hummel hard to stomach as an announcer? I have no reason to dislike him, but wow.
He makes uninformed statements and is really harsh sounding. Sort of feels like the guy at the party that everyone wishes would tone it down. Maybe we treat him like a "freshmen" announcer and he'll be better by his senior season!!!
Wow, my mistake. It's Tim Doyle from Northwestern. Apologies to Robbie Hummel.
Just as I figured, Oakland has not lived up to all their hype losing 2 straight home games last week vs NKU and WSU. I just get tired of hearing how they are going to dominate the HL and then lay the eggs they always seem to do. They have also lost to Green Bay. This is a senior dominated team with experience, scoring and height. Now I waiting to hear again what a great coach "The King" is. It seems like he always "talks the talk" but most often doesn't "walk the walk".
Quote from: valpo64 on January 08, 2018, 10:29:10 AM
Just as I figured, Oakland has not lived up to all their hype losing 2 straight home games last week vs NKU and WSU. I just get tired of hearing how they are going to dominate the HL and then lay the eggs they always seem to do. They have also lost to Green Bay. This is a senior dominated team with experience, scoring and height. Now I waiting to hear again what a great coach "The King" is. It seems like he always "talks the talk" but most often doesn't "walk the walk".
A mediocre season so far for Oakland and have been a real disappointment so far. But they'll have home-court advantage at Motor City Dumpster-Fire, so I don't feel too bad for them or the Horizon League. The Horizon League really took a nose dive this season. NKU is the only team that has put together a respectable season so far and not had any bad losses yet. NKU barely escaped a horrible loss to Detroit Mercy last night but UDM literally choked the game away for them.
I'm so thankful we are no longer with that train-wreck of a Conference.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 07, 2018, 02:20:18 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 07, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
Anyone else find Robbie Hummel hard to stomach as an announcer? I have no reason to dislike him, but wow.
He makes uninformed statements and is really harsh sounding. Sort of feels like the guy at the party that everyone wishes would tone it down. Maybe we treat him like a "freshmen" announcer and he'll be better by his senior season!!!
Wow, my mistake. It's Tim Doyle from Northwestern. Apologies to Robbie Hummel.
Nice save. Dogs called off.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 08, 2018, 11:02:19 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on January 08, 2018, 10:29:10 AM
Just as I figured, Oakland has not lived up to all their hype losing 2 straight home games last week vs NKU and WSU. I just get tired of hearing how they are going to dominate the HL and then lay the eggs they always seem to do. They have also lost to Green Bay. This is a senior dominated team with experience, scoring and height. Now I waiting to hear again what a great coach "The King" is. It seems like he always "talks the talk" but most often doesn't "walk the walk".
A mediocre season so far for Oakland and have been a real disappointment so far. But they'll have home-court advantage at Motor City Dumpster-Fire, so I don't feel too bad for them or the Horizon League. The Horizon League really took a nose dive this season. NKU is the only team that has put together a respectable season so far and not had any bad losses yet. NKU barely escaped a horrible loss to Detroit Mercy last night but UDM literally choked the game away for them.
I'm so thankful we are no longer with that train-wreck of a Conference.
Seriously----what conference? The HL is so irrelevant now.
https://twitter.com/MurrayRGJ/status/954051494604562432
http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/acc/woody-bracketologist-joe-lunardi-says-it-s-time-to-show/article_74c6f6ef-9971-5d02-8f8f-15a35ee289ba.html
WOODY: Bracketologist Joe Lunardi says it's time to show love to mid-major conferences
Paul Woody pwoody@timesdispatch.com
Jan 16, 2018
Joe Lunardi has run the numbers and come to an inescapable and reasonable conclusion.
In order for a Division I men's basketball team to play in the NCAA tournament, it should have to be "tournament eligible."
"A year ago in mid-February, Clemson was 4-10 (in the ACC) and still was considered a legitimate at-large team," said Lunardi. "I have nothing against Clemson. But they were 4-10. Why were we talking about this?
"We're de-emphasizing winning. There are too many numbers and not enough common sense."
..........
If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM
Speaking of Clemson. I see Skara, after his suspension, is not finding the floor much for them. I take no pleasure in reporting that, but take immense pleasure in reporting the great Dave Maravilla's name is spelled wrong on their website.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 18, 2018, 05:51:09 PM
If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM
Take another season before adding any other MVC teams, where's the rush?
I'm still not 100% the MVC is a good long term conference for our small private Lutheran U. Think Belmonts approach had some real substance....big fish in a medium pond.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 18, 2018, 08:04:45 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 18, 2018, 05:51:09 PM
If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM
I'm still not 100% the MVC is a good long term conference for our small private Lutheran U. Think Belmonts approach had some real substance....big fish in a medium pond.
I could not disagree more. I think the MVC is the best home for Valpo, other then a pie in the sky scenario where Valpo would somehow join the Big East.
Valpo was the big fish in a small pond back in the old mid-con and it was clear that we were better then that conference at the time. Yes we made a lot tourney appearances back then but that was a great run but you need to challenge yourself to move up in the world.
Their approach didn't lead to much substance last season when they were clearly the best team in the OVC and lost in the conf tourney. There is absolutely zero chance the ovc becomes a 2-bid league but there is a chance the MVC becomes one again. Northern Iowa had a chance this season before choking their 1st 5 conference games.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 18, 2018, 08:17:05 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 18, 2018, 08:04:45 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 18, 2018, 05:51:09 PM
If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM
I'm still not 100% the MVC is a good long term conference for our small private Lutheran U. Think Belmonts approach had some real substance....big fish in a medium pond.
I could not disagree more. I think the MVC is the best home for Valpo, other then a pie in the sky scenario where Valpo would somehow join the Big East.
Valpo was the big fish in a small pond back in the old mid-con and it was clear that we were better then that conference at the time. Yes we made a lot tourney appearances back then but that was a great run but you need to challenge yourself to move up in the world.
Their approach didn't lead to much substance last season when they were clearly the best team in the OVC and lost in the conf tourney. There is absolutely zero chance the ovc becomes a 2-bid league but there is a chance the MVC becomes one again. Northern Iowa had a chance this season before choking their 1st 5 conference games.
Evansville...
25+ win seasons in the HL with tournament 50% of the time...
21 win seasons in the MVC once up to speed, tournament every 5 years...
How long until we are mired in mediocrity? That being said, higher ceiling YES. Huge risk YES.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 18, 2018, 08:22:12 PM
Evansville...
25+ win seasons in the HL with tournament 50% of the time...
21 win seasons in the MVC once up to speed, tournament every 5 years...
How long until we are mired in mediocrity? That being said, higher ceiling YES. Huge risk YES.
You need to risk it to get the biscuit.
I'm very happy to be in the MVC and I don't think I'll ever want Valpo to go back to the HL or SL. It's just a losers mentality to me.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 18, 2018, 08:22:12 PMQuote from: VU2014 on January 18, 2018, 08:17:05 PMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 18, 2018, 08:04:45 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on January 18, 2018, 05:51:09 PMIf you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM
I'm still not 100% the MVC is a good long term conference for our small private Lutheran U. Think Belmonts approach had some real substance....big fish in a medium pond.
I could not disagree more. I think the MVC is the best home for Valpo, other then a pie in the sky scenario where Valpo would somehow join the Big East. Valpo was the big fish in a small pond back in the old mid-con and it was clear that we were better then that conference at the time. Yes we made a lot tourney appearances back then but that was a great run but you need to challenge yourself to move up in the world. Their approach didn't lead to much substance last season when they were clearly the best team in the OVC and lost in the conf tourney. There is absolutely zero chance the ovc becomes a 2-bid league but there is a chance the MVC becomes one again. Northern Iowa had a chance this season before choking their 1st 5 conference games.
Evansville... 25+ win seasons in the HL with tournament 50% of the time... 21 win seasons in the MVC once up to speed, tournament every 5 years... How long until we are mired in mediocrity? That being said, higher ceiling YES. Huge risk YES.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Remember we had growing pains with the move to the Horizon League as well. But it was clear that we had outgrown that league and needed a new challenge. Will we ever dominate the league like we did in our previous two conferences? Maybe not, but that doesn't mean stepping up was the wrong move; especially if the university is truly committed to building its brand across the midwest and beyond and to being a power in midmajor athletics. This wasn't just a step up for basketball it was a step up for the entire athletic department and indeed the university as a whole. The teams in the MVC are the kind of teams we need to be competing against and beating consistently if we truly want to lay claim to that title. This move is already paying dividends in the increase in regional and national exposure we are seeing if we want to achieve what I am told is Valpo's mission. Taking the "big fish small pond" route not only foresakes our mission as a university but also does not guarantee anything for the athletic department. Furthermore, those benefits if realized will not be as far reaching as they would be in the MVC nor would they necessarily be as easy to access.I am sure that this will translate positively to student enrollment especially if we are successful. What's more, we have far more in common as an institution with schools like Drake Evansville Bradley Loyola and UNI than we ever did with Cleveland State UIC Milwaukee Youngstown State etc.
You're also missing another great benefit from joining the MVC that helps to mitigate the risk: a higher floor. An MVC team that performs decent\well is far more likely to get rewarded with higher seeding and (if the tournament uses campus sites) more home games allowing for a greater chance to succeed and collect money for the athletic department. It may be easier to get to the tournament in a lower league but it's far harder to win once you get there, also if you slip up along the path to the tournament the fall you take is much farther and harder making the path to success riskier and more difficult. Honestly the 2015-2016 season should have settled this argument once and for all for Valpo fans. If that team was in the MVC I doubt they get left out of the dance. In fact I'd even venture to say that we would have been seeded highly enough to win at least one game.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 18, 2018, 10:12:35 PM
You're also missing another great benefit from joining the MVC that helps to mitigate the risk: a higher floor. An MVC team that performs decent\well is far more likely to get rewarded with higher seeding and (if the tournament uses campus sites) more home games allowing for a greater chance to succeed and collect money for the athletic department. It may be easier to get to the tournament in a lower league but it's far harder to win once you get there, also if you slip up along the path to the tournament the fall you take is much farther and harder making the path to success riskier and more difficult. Honestly the 2015-2016 season should have settled this argument once and for all for Valpo fans. If that team was in the MVC I doubt they get left out of the dance. In fact I'd even venture to say that we would have been seeded highly enough to win at least one game.
Illinois State was left out when the league had Wichita State...
Yes but that year the MVC sat at least 4 spots lower in RPI and had a lower KenPom rating. Yes the league had Wichita State but it also had multiple sub 200 RPI drags that really hurt the Redbirds. What's more Illinois State didn't have multiple P5 victories they could trot out in front of the committee that year like they would have this year if they had replicated their success from the previous year. In fact their actual out of conference resume was kind of weak.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 18, 2018, 05:51:09 PM
If you want to take a look at a couple of possible MVC expansion candidates or just watch a really good mid major matchup Murray State is playing Belmont on ESPNU at 6PM
I watched the game and both of those schools, particularly Belmont, would unfortunately, beat out currently performing team rather easily. :( :'(
Quote from: VU2014 on January 18, 2018, 09:22:26 PMI'm very happy to be in the MVC and I don't think I'll ever want Valpo to go back to the HL or SL. It's just a losers mentality to me.
Exact same thinking that SLU uses to stay in the A10 as of now and not move back to the MVC. They truly hope they can improve to the BE but the Billikens realize they are not near that quality of a program and will need to build up to that quality. As will Valpo have to build up to the quality of the MVC.
Evansville...
25+ win seasons in the HL with tournament 50% of the time...
21 win seasons in the MVC once up to speed, tournament every 5 years...
How long until we are mired in mediocrity? That being said, higher ceiling YES. Huge risk YES.
[/quote]
Just a quick comment on this. Evansville was never in the Horizon. It was in the old MCC (Midwestern Cities Conference), which was a multi-bid league for many years and had some of the best basketball in the Midwest during the mid-late 1980s thru about early 1990s. It then broke apart with teams going to the new Horizon League (with poached AMCU-8 schools Green Bay, Milwaukee, Wright State, CSU), and some going other places like E-Ville to the MVC, SLU to the Great Midwest/Conf USA. Maybe E-ville should have went with the HL, but those teams of the late 80s/early 90s were really good. Jim Crews was the head coach through that era, and in 88-89 they had a young Chris Mack (who would later transfer to X), Scott Hafner, Olaf Blab (yes, uwe's brother), in 91-92 they had Parrish Casebier averaging 25 and Scott Shreffler who was one of the better all-around guards in those days who started for 4 years, and 92-93 had Parrish and Scott. Scott also appeared in Blue Chips (like Shane Hammink's Dad). The MCC was one of the most competitive leagues around and we went to a lot of X games during that period along with the conference tourneys held at Dayton. Dayton, X, SLU, EVille, Detroit, Loyola all had outstanding players, teams and coaches. X was running off multiple NCAA bids with guys like Larkin, Ty Hill, Derek Strong, Jamal Walker etc. Butler was in the conference and rebuilding (later with Barry Collier as coach). So, Eville's issues aren't all because it moved to MVC. So, I'm not sure that is the strongest comparison to where we are now or will be. We need to be competing against like minded schools that helps raise our competitiveness. Remember there were a lot less D1 schools in those days too.
Quote from: bbtds on January 19, 2018, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 18, 2018, 09:22:26 PMI'm very happy to be in the MVC and I don't think I'll ever want Valpo to go back to the HL or SL. It's just a losers mentality to me.
Exact same thinking that SLU uses to stay in the A10 as of now and not move back to the MVC. They truly hope they can improve to the BE but the Billikens realize they are not near that quality of a program and will need to build up to that quality. As will Valpo have to build up to the quality of the MVC.
I get your point but it's a bit of a different situation. The MVC is much closer in level of competition to the A10 then the HL is to the MVC. (A10 is still has a few more higher end teams then the MVC but MVC has a better RPI this season). Plus the geography is just much more suitable to the MVC for them. Their closest "rival" is Dayton who is 400 miles away. There are natural rivals in the MVC. If I'm the Big East I'd rather have Dayton then SLU. SLU offers a new TV market but the BE's games are already on nationally televised on FS1 anyways and it's not like SLU has as many fans as a Missouri or something.
I think Valpo has been good enough to always be in the MVC the last 7 years and even during different stretches in the last 20-25 years or so but we are in "rebuild", after graduating 3 pros. I honestly think Valpo's previous 2 team teams would put a whooping on many of this season MVC teams and would have a great shot to win the league. People need to stop being prisoners of the moment with this current team struggling, largely do to youth and inexperience (and losing Joe Burton midseason).
We need the coaches to land more stud recruits and continue to develop this young group. After this season we'll have a great opportunity with having 2 upperclassmen 7 footers & Fazekas coming in.
Wow... https://twitter.com/andyevans16/status/955861270955286529
(https://i.giphy.com/media/26FPy3QZQqGtDcrja/giphy.webp)
Do you think this helps or hurts their case that VU's departure caused damage to their league and VU therefore owes the HL money? I have to admit that issue has been on my mind a lot lately. I wonder what the latest on that is. Will it impact our membership in the MVC?
One team ruins the entire League when they leave? That sure doesn't say much about the remaining teams, does it? Maybe we were the glue of the League as they always had someone to complain about. Now that we are gone there isn't much left for a poorly run Conference on which to hang their hat. It really makes me chuckle and glad we left for a significant upgrade to The Valley.
Come to think of it the Valley lost a much better team and is Somehow arguably better than it was. Granted they received a much better program in return than the Horizon League did but maybe you're right to bring up the superior leadership structure and operations of the MVC as compared to the Horizon League
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 23, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
Do you think this helps or hurts their case that VU's departure caused damage to their league
I think it's undeniable that losing Valpo has been a big blow to that conference. Valpo would have been in rebuild regardless but we still would have given that conference some respectability. But it's really just a perfect storm for how bad that conference is.
-losing Valpo
-OU not being as good as expected or should be
-coaching changes
-replacing VU with a bottom-feeding D1 team in IUPUI
-Steve McClain can't coach that UIC team that has so much talent (it's been better of late the point still stands)
-Too many bottom feeding teams in that Conference
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 23, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
and VU therefore owes the HL money? I have to admit that issue has been on my mind a lot lately.
It's debatable if we owe them any $, because our unique entry-fee into the Horizon League. Also we had a different membership agreement from the rest of the league. There is a legal debate to be had. The Evansville judge dismissed the case going to trial down there and it has been moved to Porter County where it always should have been settled.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/horizonvalparaiso-lawsuit/
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/valpo-lawsuit-update/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 23, 2018, 12:10:30 PM
I wonder what the latest on that is. Will it impact our membership in the MVC?
Why would it impact our membership status in the MVC? We're already a member of the Missouri Valley Conference.
Like could the MVC throw us out or the Horizon League demand our return to the conference if we lose?
To your point about UIC: I wonder if maybe since we've moved up we could convince Ottey to transfer here.
The MVC isn't going to throw us out over a contractual dispute with the HL. The MVC lawyers have already said they thought it was a frivolous lawsuit. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think there is any way the HL could force us to come back to that conference. This whole situation I'm guessing will be resolved via settlement eventually.
The main reason the HL is fighting is probably because they want to send a warning shot to not poach another one of their schools if the MVC expands again.
Frivolous that they were included in it. There's an obvious legitimate debate over the entrance and exit contracts between us and the HL. I just want it over with so we can all move on. RE: team poaching and MVC expansion I'm sure the MVC will do whatever it feels it needs to do in order to build the best league possible. The funny thing is they actually did the league a favor at the time when they took Loyola and are trying really hard not to take from the HL again. If stupid Belmont or stupid SLU would just come on already they wouldn't have to. As it stands they're probably going to end up taking NKU but not necessarily because they want to screw over the HL but because it's the best available option. Also when the Metro and MCC formed Conference USA and the remaining MCC teams formed the HL with a bunch of old AMCU teams I don't remember any lawsuits then and some conferences almost ceased did cease to exist. When's the Summit going to sue the HL for raiding their league of VU Oakland IUPUI and at least one more team once the HL expands? Will the WAC or A-SUN be suing anyone if and when they finally break apart? LeCrone may have just opened Pandora's box here.
If I thought the $500,000 fee in question would be invested in the men's bb program, I would care about keeping it. I know it won't be, so I don't.
Quote from: wh on January 23, 2018, 01:24:23 PM
If I thought the $500,000 fee in question would be invested in the men's bb program, I would care about keeping it. I know it won't be, so I don't.
Who needs a $500,000 investment in their men's basketball program when you have some beautiful new banners hanging in the ARC? Am I right? ;)
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/955168926610219016
It was a tough night to be a Drew yesterday. :-[
I was wondering how Homer had the viewing set up for last night. Was he at home in Nashville watching on two TVs? Was he flipping back and forth between ESPN channels? Was he in Norman or Lexington attending one of the games? Where was the rest of the Drew family? So many pertinent questions.
Did anyone see that Skara is starting for Clemson who just beat UNC?
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 01, 2018, 12:33:41 PM
Did anyone see that Skara is starting for Clemson who just beat UNC?
Clemson's star got hurt so he was thrust into a larger role.
Which 3 would you pick to represent the Valley?
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/960560476970274817
Alize Johnson, Reed Timmer, and Tevonn Walker (I wouldn't be much of a Valpo fan if I didn't pick a Valpo guy).
Honestly though, I don't really know many of the other players in our league.
I like Kavion Pippen's game at SIU... but there are three teams I haven't see yet...
Hard to argue with Timmer and Johnson... I can't see "Defense" winning this thing...
Ingram and Richardson from Loyola should get some consideration, as should Scott from Indiana State
I was listening to the Podcast from the Peoria Star (hat tip VU2014 for posting it on Twitter so I could find it) and they mentioned something that got me thinking about Burton. This past offseason the Redbirds signed a sharpshooter named Chris Copeland. He hasn't played all year because he did not qualify academically for Illinois State. They say he's qualified now and will play next year. Do you think that's what Burton was doing in Valpo? Do you think he's working on getting himself academically qualified to play again?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 05, 2018, 06:27:22 PM
I was listening to the Podcast from the Peoria Star (hat tip VU2014 for posting it on Twitter so I could find it) and they mentioned something that got me thinking about Burton. This past offseason the Redbirds signed a sharpshooter named Chris Copeland. He hasn't played all year because he did not qualify academically for Illinois State. They say he's qualified now and will play next year. Do you think that's what Burton was doing in Valpo? Do you think he's working on getting himself academically qualified to play again?
I hope for Joe's sake he continues to strive for his degree. If we are fortunate enough to have him qualify and come back that's awesome.
But I sure hope this hiccup doesn't turn into him giving up academically at VU or elsewhere. Basketball is fleeting, but a degree is forever (or is it diamonds, I always screw that one up).
:rotfl:
https://twitter.com/YSUMensHoops/status/963977478627831808
That's good stuff! The HL tournament play was my favorite.
Last night, once again my man does it again, "The King" loses another one. Can't wait to hear him talk about this one.
Wow. Oakland lost to IUPUI.
You can make the case that Valpo has had a "better" season than Oakland. Oakland has been extremely disappointing because this was a "tourney or bust" season for them. Valpo had much less expectations coming into this season.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400992150
I believe they got swept by IUPUI this year??!!
Quote from: M on February 20, 2018, 06:15:41 AM
I believe they got swept by IUPUI this year??!!
Oakland won the first meeting but IUPUI gave them a scare and almost came back to beat them in their own building and IUPUI isn't great team. A ugly season for "king" Kampe.
Makes you wonder how we would have faired in the HL this year?
I think it would be a stretch to say the 8th/9th/10th place team in the MVC would have won the HL, but you gotta think we would have been at least 3rd.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 20, 2018, 09:11:46 AM
Makes you wonder how we would have faired in the HL this year?
I think it would be a stretch to say the 8th/9th/10th place team in the MVC would have won the HL, but you gotta think we would have been at least 3rd.
With Joe Burton we may have been Top 3. Without Joe we'd probably still go through a funk adjusting without him and we'd still probably finish Top 4-5. The Horizon League has more "cupcake" games then ever this season. It's really bad this season
I don't think anyone would have predicted this going into the season but all ten MVC teams currently have better KenPom ratings than Oakland (the MVC's worst, Illinois State, is immediately ahead of them at 161). The Golden Grizzlies (162) are third in the HL after NKU (91) and Wright State (138).
One other pieces is that at least in Horizon League play the coaches wouldn't be learning 10 other teams plays/coaching quirks. The known quality and past schemes we've used would have provided a more solid foundation to build the guys around. We were dealing with a lot of young guys, and a whole new level of competition.
And STILL we have come within an eyelash of being right in the thick of the conference race. That is dang impressive and bodes well for the future.
On different note, the NCAA denied Louisville's appeal. They must vacate their 2013 national championship.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/02/20/louisville-forced-vacate-2013-mens-basketball-title-after-ncaa-denies-appeal/355189002/
well deserved and now who is next?
Markus Golder's former JUCO teammate has a really cool story.
https://twitter.com/AP_Top25/status/965978124562452481
https://twitter.com/Ddixson_35/status/967247711287369730
Interesting and very odd time to announce a transfer. He was a hell of a player before the knee injury. The injury really seems to have affected him and I'm not sure if he'll ever be the same player he was pre-ACL tear. His stats and efficiency are down across the board. Maybe he isn't fully back from that knee injury.
It is complete BS that he was given a RS year, whereas Keith Carter was not. Yet another example of inconsistent application of RS years by the NCAA, as he played 20+ mpg in 10 games over his second season.
Great college basketball story.
ordan Bohannon purposely misses a free throw to remain tied for the most consecutive free throws made in Iowa history with Chris Street. Street never had a chance to extend his streak after dying in a car accident in 1993.
After all these pathetic seasons, DePaul basketball needs an enema like change and they need it now.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 27, 2018, 08:31:30 AM
After all these pathetic seasons, DePaul basketball needs an enema like change and they need it now.
Carson Cunningham?
Has the Sean Miller Arizona thing come up on the board here? I have been off the board for a few days.
When the FBI has your voice on the phone that is pretty good proof.
This could be a problem.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-sdsu-20180228-story.html
Butler just lost to Big East bottom feeder St Johns for their 4th loss in their last 6 games. 2 weeks ago I would have said they're a lock for an at-large. Now they're probably going to have to win at Seton Hall on Sat. to have a chance. Both teams are 9-8, but SH won their first matchup and has a better RPI (27 vs. 41).
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 28, 2018, 10:23:14 PM
This could be a problem.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-sdsu-20180228-story.html
Wichita State may start feeling buyer's remorse
when they see this. They're doing well in the AAC, but Gonzaga and Wichita State joining the Mountain West together would turn that conference into the best non P-5/BE conference - hands down, and would be a far better geographic fit for WSU, as well.
So Gonzaga sees itself was a Western team rather than one belonging in the East? Wow.
Does St. Louis University realize that is in Missouri and also in a valley? West Virginia also seems to be a university in need of a map and a compass.
Sweet if that happens. Let's hope we keep the mvc/mw challenge going. Would be absolutely stunning to host Gonzaga at the ARC. Not BYU though, tired of beating them....
Quote from: wh on February 28, 2018, 11:07:04 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on February 28, 2018, 10:23:14 PMThis could be a problem. http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-sdsu-20180228-story.html
Wichita State may start feeling buyer's remorse when they see this. They're doing well in the AAC, but Gonzaga and Wichita State joining the Mountain West together would turn that conference into the best non P-5/BE conference - hands down, and would be a far better geographic fit for WSU, as well.
They could still very easily join up. I don't see the current AAC lasting very long. I think UCONN will leave and the Big 12 will gobble up most of the top teams in that conference when it reconfigures sometime in the 2020s
Quote from: wh on February 28, 2018, 10:50:14 PM
Butler just lost to Big East bottom feeder St Johns for their 4th loss in their last 6 games. 2 weeks ago I would have said they're a lock for an at-large. Now they're probably going to have to win at Seton Hall on Sat. to have a chance. Both teams are 9-8, but SH won their first matchup and has a better RPI (27 vs. 41).
Quote from: wh on December 19, 2014, 01:09:02 PM
"Brad" heavily recruited Peters but then ran cold on him when Chrabascz showed interest in Butler. Ultimately, they chose Chrabascz over Peters and the rest is history. AP is a HL POY candidate; Chrabascz is a role player on what will again be a bottom feeding BE team.
I think the game was billed as the "Battle of the Bottom Feeders". I wish I could get my 2 1/2 hours back. :-[
Where is Uconn going? I can certainly say it's not the Big 12
Most logically UCONN goes to the Big East with the Big 12 or some lesser conference allowing them to park football there Or to the ACC when Notre Dame takes on full membership I also wouldn't rule out the Big 10 who has plenty of bad football to go round but might enjoy having a basketball program with such pedigree (I could see Kansas as a companion addition out West for divisions sake. Of course I don't see the Big 10 making any moves like that until Texas and Oklahoma decide where they're going to go. This is something that I don't think will take place for another 5-7 years.
UConn doesn't fit the Big East model
If UCONN left the AAC then WSU would need to quickly reevaluate if the move to the American was the right move for them.
I think if the Big East were to take any public school it would be UCONN. Problem is what would they do with football. No chance the AAC let's them stay in the conference. I'd think the most likely add would be Dayton.
Let's just go back to the basics... and see where it takes us...at times this year, it seemed our team was playing under these rules...
===============================================================================
The first thirteen rules of "Basket Ball," as published by James Naismith in "The Triangle" of January 1892, are as follows:
1. The ball may be thrown in any direction with one or both hands.
2. The ball may be batted in any direction with one or both hands (never with the fist).
3. A player cannot run with the ball. The player must throw it from the spot on which he catches it, allowance to be made for a man who catches the ball when running at good speed if he tries to stop.
4. The ball must be held in or between the hands, the arms or body must not be used for holding it.
5. No shouldering, holding, pushing, tripping or striking in any way the person of an opponent shall be allowed; the first infringement of this rule by any person shall count as a foul, the second shall disqualify him until the next goal is made, or if there was evident intent to injure the person, for the whole of the game, no substitute allowed.
6. A foul is striking the ball with the fist, violation of rules 3 and 4, and such as described in rule 5.
7. If either side makes three consecutive fouls it shall count a goal for opponents (consecutive means without the opponents in the mean time making a foul).
8. A goal shall be made when the ball is thrown or batted from grounds into the basket and stays there, providing those defending the goal do not touch or disturb the goal. If the ball rests on the edges, and the opponent moves the basket, it shall count as a goal.
9. When the ball goes out of bounds, it shall be thrown into the field of play by the person first touching it. In case of a dispute, the umpire shall throw it straight into the field. The thrower in is allowed five seconds, if he holds it longer, it shall go to the opponent. If any side persists in delaying the game, the umpire shall call a foul on them.
10. The umpire shall be judge of the men and shall note the fouls and notify the referee when three consecutive fouls have been made. He shall have power to disqualify men according to Rule 5.
11. The referee shall be the judge of the ball and shall decide when the ball is in play, in bounds, to which side it belongs, and shall keep the time. He shall decide when a goal has been made, and keep account of the goals with any other duties that are usually performed by a referee.
12. The time shall be fifteen-minutes, halves, with five minutes' rests between.
13. The side making the most goals in that time shall be declared the winner. In the case of a draw, the game may, by agreement of the captains, be continued until another goal is made.
It appears the Ramblers are getting UNI-ed. 40-37 game with 6 minutes and change left.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 02, 2018, 01:38:44 PM
It appears the Ramblers are getting UNI-ed. 40-37 game with 6 minutes and change left.
Ramblers hang on, win 54-50. Interestingly enough, POY Custer scored 2 points. Was fouled twice with under 50 seconds to go and missed the front end both times. A win is a win.
Good news for bubble teams. Nebraska just punched it's ticket to the NIT today.
The face of a man who got his first conference tourney win in years on essentially a home court. TBH we don't have much to talk about with our own bizarre drought.
https://twitter.com/JRoseWXYZ/status/970488893362536448
Incredible. Another year where the #1 seed and #2 seed never made it to the final. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE.
UIC was the three seed. Wright State is the two and they're still alive. They play Milwaukee tomorrow. We should all be rooting for Wright State to make it as the representative from the HL because it will help Loyola's seeding.
It's almost like pulling your tourney in a league with low fan support to a neutral site, with virtually no research, on 10 months' notice, in order to pacify whining coaches and ADs about your conference's top program hosting too often, was a dumb decision for long-term competitiveness.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 05, 2018, 11:58:35 AM
It's almost like pulling your tourney in a league with low fan support to a neutral site, with virtually no research, on 10 months' notice, in order to pacify whining coaches and ADs about your conference's top program hosting too often, was a dumb decision for long-term competitiveness.
I've been watching a few games and the turnout is very low there. Olympia Entertainment said this may be the last season because they need to see better results. The venue looks great but the crowds are very sparse to say the least.
Playing the HL tourney at the LCA is a joke. There is nothing like some bad teams/league playing bad basketball in front of bad crowds. Wow...am I glad we have moved on. Would any of the teams left in the HL tourney have an RPI higher than anyone in the MVC?
Quote from: valpo64 on March 05, 2018, 01:12:03 PM
Playing the HL tourney at the LCA is a joke. There is nothing like some bad teams/league playing bad basketball in front of bad crowds. Wow...am I glad we have moved on. Would any of the teams left in the HL tourney have an RPI higher than anyone in the MVC?
Going back to last week:
Only one - Wright State. All other semi-finalists come in below all teams in the MVC. If WSU loses to UWM and OU loses to CSU, the HL final will pit a 234 RPI team vs. a 311 RPI team for the chance to represent the HL at the dance.
32 Loyola-Chicago - MVC finalist and Champ
87 Illinois State - MVC finalist and runner up
91 Southern Illinois
106 Wright State
107 N. Kentucky
114 Bradley
133 Missouri State
138 Evansville
141 Northern Iowa
159 Drake
172 Indiana State
177 Valparaiso
179 Oakland
234Milwaukee
236 UIC
289 IUPUI
306 Detroit
309 Green Bay
311 Cleveland State
319 Youngstown State
I've been as much of a "leave the past in the past" guy as anyone here, but the fact that the Horizon League will once again be repped by a sub par team since moving to a neutral site is hilarious to me.
Suck it, LeCrone.
Life could be worse :lol: :rotfl:
https://twitter.com/NickCaminoWTAM/status/970840196680966144
https://twitter.com/Catch_N_Shoot/status/970840526235799555
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Z9OGuQyrfHAE8/200.gif)
We really have no room to talk given our conference tourney performances the past three years, but this could not be a more fitting reward for LeCrone's utter incompetence (and yes, the way he happily screwed over our 2016 team).
Best case scenario, you have a losing team from Cleveland, who averaged 1,300 fans per game playing a team from Dayton (3.25 hours away) on a weeknight in Detroit in front of an empty arena and a realistic probability that your lone tourney bid is a 16 seed just seven years after sending a team to the Final Four. Bang-up job, everyone.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 05, 2018, 08:48:47 PM
Life could be worse [emoji38] :rotfl:
https://twitter.com/NickCaminoWTAM/status/970840196680966144
https://twitter.com/Catch_N_Shoot/status/970840526235799555
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Z9OGuQyrfHAE8/200.gif)
Is Butler hiring?
Quote from: a3uge on March 05, 2018, 09:14:31 PMIs Butler hiring?
Currently an asst football coach and a director of basketball operations for the women's team. No MBB positions.
https://www.butler.edu/hr/athletics-openings
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 05, 2018, 09:07:42 PM
We really have no room to talk given our conference tourney performances the past three years, but this could not be a more fitting reward for LeCrone's utter incompetence (and yes, the way he happily screwed over our 2016 team).
Best case scenario, you have a losing team from Cleveland, who averaged 1,300 fans per game playing a team from Dayton (3.25 hours away) on a weeknight in Detroit in front of an empty arena and a realistic probability that your lone tourney bid is a 16 seed just seven years after sending a team to the Final Four. Bang-up job, everyone.
Teams win or lose games, not Lecrone. You guys are something else.
The other conferences... and the "last place RPI team"... One of the NBCSports guys commented that Valpo is the best last-place team there is... so I thought I'd check that out...he was close...
Southeastern 124 Mississippi
Big 12 128 Iowa State
Big East 177 DePaul
Missouri Valley 188 Valparaiso
Big Ten 199 Rutgers
Atlantic Coast 211 Pittsburgh
Pac 12 215 California
Mid American 237 Northern Illinois
Colonial Athletic 273 James Madison
American Athletic 275 South Florida
Atlantic 10 289 Fordham
Sun Belt 301 Arkansas-Little Rock
Summit 302 Western Illinois
Ohio Valley 307 Tennessee Martin
Big Sky 311 Northern Arizona
Mountain West 312 San Jose State
Southern 313 Virginia Military
West Coast 317 Pepperdine
America East 321 Binghamton
Conference USA 325 Charlotte
MAAC 326 Marist
Horizon 328 Youngstown State
Ivy 334 Dartmouth
Patriot 335 American University
Big South 338 Longwood
Western Athletic 339 Chicago State
Big West 340 Cal State Northridge
Northeast 341 Bryant
Atlantic Sun 345 South Carolina Upstate
Southland 348 Incarnate Word
SWAC 350 Alabama A&M
MEAC 351 Delaware State
Quote from: talksalot on March 06, 2018, 12:05:09 PM
The other conferences... and the "last place RPI team"... One of the NBCSports guys commented that Valpo is the best last-place team there is... so I thought I'd check that out...he was close...
Southeastern 124 Mississippi
Big 12 128 Iowa State
Big East 177 DePaul
Missouri Valley 188 Valparaiso
Big Ten 199 Rutgers
Atlantic Coast 211 Pittsburgh
Pac 12 215 California
Mid American 237 Northern Illinois
Colonial Athletic 273 James Madison
American Athletic 275 South Florida
Atlantic 10 289 Fordham
Sun Belt 301 Arkansas-Little Rock
Summit 302 Western Illinois
Ohio Valley 307 Tennessee Martin
Big Sky 311 Northern Arizona
Mountain West 312 San Jose State
It wouldn't draw a large crowd but it would be interesting to take the 16 highest RPI last place teams and put them in a Tournament and call it "The Best of the Lasts" Tournament. Could Valpo beat out Ole Miss, DePaul, Iowa State, Rutgers, Pittsburgh and Cal?
SO, when Fordham plays Tennessee Martin in the Championship... let's play that at the LCA in Detroit. not sure which would be a bigger fan draw!
Quote from: talksalot on March 06, 2018, 12:05:09 PM
The other conferences... and the "last place RPI team"... One of the NBCSports guys commented that Valpo is the best last-place team there is... so I thought I'd check that out...he was close...
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/l2JdTa0yVuHBpzIE8/giphy.gif)
Another solid Mid-Major will not get an at-large. St. Mary's.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/02/08/march-madness-2018-ncaa-tournament-bracketology/318678002/
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 06, 2018, 04:20:43 PM
Another solid Mid-Major will not get an at-large. St. Mary's.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/02/08/march-madness-2018-ncaa-tournament-bracketology/318678002/
St. Mary's tries to thread the needle every season with their scheduling. The don't play true road games in OOC unless it's against P5 opponents for the most part. They really really bank on the fact they get to play Gonzaga at least twice a season. They had the chance to play another great mid-major at home against Nevada but they bought out the away game because they didn't want to risk playing on the road.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 06, 2018, 04:20:43 PMAnother solid Mid-Major will not get an at-large. St. Mary's.
Middle Tennessee also lost their last home game to #102 Marshall. They will likely need to win the CUSA tournament,
Quote from: VU2014 on March 06, 2018, 04:31:47 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 06, 2018, 04:20:43 PM
Another solid Mid-Major will not get an at-large. St. Mary's.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/02/08/march-madness-2018-ncaa-tournament-bracketology/318678002/
St. Mary's tries to thread the needle every season with their scheduling. The don't play true road games in OOC unless it's against P5 opponents for the most part. They really really bank on the fact they get to play Gonzaga at least twice a season. They had the chance to play another great mid-major at home against Nevada but they bought out the away game because they didn't want to risk playing on the road.
I also heard that URI offered them a home and home ... St. Mary's said no thanks. It's obvious that they make little to no effort to schedule quality OOC games, so they will get what they deserve on Sunday.
Homer Drew has a big decision on where he travels to see his sons' teams play. Does he go to Kansas City to see #6 Baylor take on #3 West Virginia at 8:00 p.m. on Thursday or does he go to the Scottrade Center in St. Louis to see #13 Vanderbilt play #12 Georgia at 6:00 p.m. today/Wednesday? Or does he drive 5 hours or fly across Missouri to see both games?
Of course if Vandy beats Georgia on Wed/today then they play the home team Missouri at approximately 3:30 p.m. on Thursday. Will Homer see the Vandy game on Thursday and then fly across Missouri for the Baylor/West Virginia game at 8:00 p.m. He'd be leaving St Louis in rush hour at about 6:00 p.m. so it would be a pretty tough logistical challenge to get to Kansas City's Sprint Center by 8:00 p.m.
Both St Louis and Kansas City have downtown airports for private airplanes but both airports are not really downtown. St Louis's private airplane airport is in Illinois, about 15 to 20 minutes away, across the Mississippi River just off I-255 in the southeast part of the Metro East area of Illinois and Kansas City's private airplane airport is 10 minutes north of the Sprint Center across the Buck O'Neil Missouri River bridge.
Quote from: zvillehaze on March 06, 2018, 09:35:10 PMI also heard that URI offered them a home and home ... St. Mary's said no thanks. It's obvious that they make little to no effort to schedule quality OOC games, so they will get what they deserve on Sunday.
I hate to jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts, but we almost certainly approached them for a home and home before signing UC Riverside to fill out our Santa Clara trip. Maybe they had no open dates or maybe they didn't want to return to the ARC or maybe they thought we were a threat this year. Either way if they did indeed buy out their @ Nevada return game we maybe should be glad that no agreement was reached. The ARC should be a dangerous place to visit in 18-19 and it could deadly in 19-20. I am sure they haven't completely forgotten their last game with us.
If that's the case then their small minded program is the Belmont of the West coast and they have no business competing with the likes of Gonzaga. If the Gaels are turning down resume enhancing opportunities like Nevada and Rhode Island because they're afraid to go on the road or are counting on their games against Gonzaga and BYU to bouy their resume then they're part of the problem and are a negative influence on their conference. But you bet they'll cry foul with the P5 and the committee about how hard scheduling as a mid major can be. This just makes me hope Gonzaga and BYU go to the MWC. Let St Mary's stay in the small pond and compete for bids Gonzaga and BYU can go to the MWC and compete for national titles especially in the case of Gonzaga. It makes me so mad when a program is in a position we'd like Valpo to be in and doesn't take advantage of that. Hopefully Valpo is offered and accepts this caliber of home and home series as an MVC member. And I believe they will. They have in the past and if this season taught us anything it's that Valpo isn't shy about going on the road if need be. St Mary's could take a lesson from us or perhaps they already did in the 2016 NIT and that's why we can't get a game with them.
Rereading this post I feel the need to apologize to Belmont at least they have the fortitude to put together a decent conference schedule. Now if only they had the courage to make the jump in conference.
??? Could just be a rumor but Baylor would have to be stupid to let Scott go.
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/971490662993596416
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 07, 2018, 07:38:18 AM
If that's the case then their small minded program is the Belmont of the West coast and they have no business competing with the likes of Gonzaga. If the Gaels are turning down resume enhancing opportunities like Nevada and Rhode Island because they're afraid to go on the road or are counting on their games against Gonzaga and BYU to bouy their resume then they're part of the problem and are a negative influence on their conference. But you bet they'll cry foul with the P5 and the committee about how hard scheduling as a mid major can be.
On the CBS podcast today ( https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/cbssportscom-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast/e/53606609?autoplay=true (https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/cbssportscom-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast/e/53606609?autoplay=true) ), Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander discuss St. Mary's in depth at the 16:20 mark. Norlander discusses the Rhode Island rumor I mentioned above.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 06, 2018, 04:20:43 PMAnother solid Mid-Major will not get an at-large. St. Mary's. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/02/08/march-madness-2018-ncaa-tournament-bracketology/318678002/
Saint Mary's is on their bracket and Lunardi said they'd get an at large as well.
Quote from: JD24 on March 07, 2018, 11:24:23 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 06, 2018, 04:20:43 PMAnother solid Mid-Major will not get an at-large. St. Mary's. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/02/08/march-madness-2018-ncaa-tournament-bracketology/318678002/
Saint Mary's is on their bracket and Lunardi said they'd get an at large as well.
It's kinda strange. At the time I posted that link back on the 6th, the lead story in the article was St. Mary's being knocked out of contention for an at large bid due to their loss to BYU in the WCC tournament combined with their OOC RPI of greater than 200. That same link has been updated since then and a number of iterations have been released. Those reading it today are essentially reading a totally different article.
So, I looked for some post-WCC articles that were frozen at that time and corroborated the theme of the initial USAToday release and came up with these:
https://herosports.com/college-basketball/bracketology-saint-marys-ncaa-tournament-prayer-cncn
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2018/3/6/17084572/bracketology-2018-college-basketball-bubble-saint-mary-s-byu-syracuse-notre-dame-gonzaga
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/03/06/ncaa-tournament-bubble-watch-2018-teams-updates
Interesting to note in the SI article in a comparison of bubble teams almost every "True Bubble" competitor to St. Mary's has a SOS of between 5 (Alabama) and most the low 20s up to a couple in the 80s and 90s. St. Mary's was 195.
On another NCAA basketball topic and just FYI becaause the University of San Siego is a fellow PFL member, it appears that the MBB program took a jolt with the resignation of their HBB coach, Lamont Smith. Pretty steamy story.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk/usd-coach-lamont-smith-resigns-after-avoiding-domestic-violence-charges/ar-BBK0dxU?OCID=ansmsnnews11
All together, Valparaiso basketball administrators and fans: "We told you so." ::)
"...eyes don't lie, and the Horizon League didn't come to close to packing the place – even the reconfigured place, which included a curtained-off upper bowl. Even for the hometown team with the biggest fan base, Oakland, which played two games...."
[tweet]972251886526128128[/tweet]
Quote from: valpopal on March 09, 2018, 06:26:38 PM
All together, Valparaiso basketball administrators and fans: "We told you so." ::)
"...eyes don't lie, and the Horizon League didn't come to close to packing the place – even the reconfigured place, which included a curtained-off upper bowl. Even for the hometown team with the biggest fan base, Oakland, which played two games...."
[tweet]972251886526128128[/tweet]
Let it go please. You look like a bratty kid to outsiders talking smack.
There are a lot of upset DePaul alums and fans with their AD Jean Lenti Ponsetto. She pretty much said that their program does not reflect a "junior NBA team" but competes in the Big East which has top level talent. She also stressed patience after 10, yes 10, dismal losing seasons where apathy with students is at an all time high.
In the 80s DePaul basketball was arguably the hottest sports team in Chicago, now no one gives a crap. Very sad, Ray Meyer must be rolling in his grave.
Everyone watch out, as FG05 is now the de facto Valpo Fans Forum fun police. We are not allowed to be bitter at any past slights, or talk bad about anyone except ourselves. We always have to look forward...oh yeah, Buck Futler, Petros sucks, and screw ORU 8-)
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 09, 2018, 06:59:22 PM
Let it go please. You look like a bratty kid to outsiders talking smack.
Next time I will add "[sarcasm]" just for you, though I thought the rolling-eyes emoji I included would do the trick.
Petros is great and one of few supporters for the little school north of Watts.
USC faces Arizona tonight in what should be a tremendous matchup in the PAC 12 conference of champions championship. We also get the honor to hear Bill Walton share his infinite wisdom throughout the game,
Quote from: valpotx on March 09, 2018, 08:57:52 PM
Everyone watch out, as FG05 is now the de facto Valpo Fans Forum fun police. We are not allowed to be bitter at any past slights, or talk bad about anyone except ourselves. We always have to look forward...oh yeah, Buck Futler, Petros sucks, and screw ORU 8-)
Heck yeah you are, I'm certain I'm just as much of a hypocrite as the next guy.
I just felt that the HL gave us a heck of a spring board into the MVC. Why should we hate on them. I think it's all mute though because Valpo Pal is implying a degree of sarcasm in the original post. So clearly I misread his intention ???
I hope that Oakland, NKU and other HL members are on our schedule as soon as a few years out (post law suit). And I really hope a neutral site tourney works for them wherever that may be. These onsite tournaments are for lesser conferences, of which I don't think the HL is long term. I think some of us are a little misguided in our anger towards the Detroit location, but that's just me.
Sheriff FG05 signing out!?!?
Depaul alums bought out ad space in the Chicago Sun Times to promote firing their AD lol. I can't blame them to be honest. Jean Lenti Ponsetto is awul at her job and has been there long enough to prove the case. I have a uncle who went to Depaul back in the day and he despises the Depaul athletics department.
https://twitter.com/OSD_DePaul/status/972574589871116289
With the FBI investigation going on, there is discussion going on that Adam Silver and the NBA will remove the "one and done" rule, where a players must participate in one year of college competition. Watching the USC-Arizona conference title game last night, a great reason to get rid of the rule is Deandre Ayton. If there is a better player in the NCAA better than him, I would like to know. I am pretty sure that Ayton has no intention of the overalll college experience, and he is at Arizona to play and wait , get accolades and move on. This guy needs to be in the NBA now.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 11, 2018, 09:42:27 AM
With the FBI investigation going on, there is discussion going on that Adam Silver and the NBA will remove the "one and done" rule, where a players must participate in one year of college competition. Watching the USC-Arizona conference title game last night, a great reason to get rid of the rule is Deandre Ayton. If there is a better player in the NCAA better than him, I would like to know. I am pretty sure that Ayton has no intention of the overalll college experience, and he is at Arizona to play and wait , get accolades and move on. This guy needs to be in the NBA now.
To be honest if I'm the NBA owners there would be no way I'd get rid of the "1 and done" rule. It helps scouts and GMs evaluate talent. 1 year of college experience is very valuable in helping evaluate NBA talent against a higher level of competition then just high school. High school basketball is a bit of a joke because a lot of very athletic players can dominate at that level it becomes tough to evaluate who is going to succeed. When you are committing millions of dollars to a teenager you'd want that extra year to evaluate. Only very few kids actually have the ability to be productive and compete coming out of high school to the NBA.
I'm not the biggest fan of the NBA "1 and done" rule because it does seem to have some negative affects on the sport of college basketball but it's the NBA owners right to enforce that rule. Kids don't have to play college basketball if they don't want to. If they are talented enough you can go play pro for a year in Europe. Nobody is stopping them. For the upper-echelon few kids that are going to NBA lottery picks you can make the case they actually benefit from the 1 year in college as opposed to going overseas, because they'll receive top level coaching and they'll get way more exposure to build their brands then then they ever would playing overseas. Also let's be honest. The top recruits in college basketball are already getting paid behind closed doors.
A national outlet finally stumbles upon something we've known here for a long time.... Butler fans are ranked the second-most obnoxious in all of college hoops:
https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/worst-college-basketball-fans
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 11, 2018, 03:38:56 PM
A national outlet finally stumbles upon something we've known here for a long time.... Butler fans are ranked the second-most obnoxious in all of college hoops:
https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/worst-college-basketball-fans
The number of Xavier references in the blog post (not quite a "national outlet") tells me all I need to know. X fans are incredibly insecure about never making a Final Four.
It's probably an Xavier fan but I'd have to agree that Butler fans are pretty darn obnoxious with "The Butler Way" at times.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 11, 2018, 09:42:27 AM
With the FBI investigation going on, there is discussion going on that Adam Silver and the NBA will remove the "one and done" rule, where a players must participate in one year of college competition. Watching the USC-Arizona conference title game last night, a great reason to get rid of the rule is Deandre Ayton. If there is a better player in the NCAA better than him, I would like to know. I am pretty sure that Ayton has no intention of the overalll college experience, and he is at Arizona to play and wait , get accolades and move on. This guy needs to be in the NBA now.
Just was watching a show with Mike Krzyzewski, Roy Williams and Jim Boeheim. They all agreed the one and done needs to go. Let the kids play as long or as little as they want including not at all. They agreed also that college basketball will be fine and will adjust.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 11, 2018, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 11, 2018, 09:42:27 AM
With the FBI investigation going on, there is discussion going on that Adam Silver and the NBA will remove the "one and done" rule, where a players must participate in one year of college competition. Watching the USC-Arizona conference title game last night, a great reason to get rid of the rule is Deandre Ayton. If there is a better player in the NCAA better than him, I would like to know. I am pretty sure that Ayton has no intention of the overalll college experience, and he is at Arizona to play and wait , get accolades and move on. This guy needs to be in the NBA now.
To be honest if I'm the NBA owners there would be no way I'd get rid of the "1 and done" rule. It helps scouts and GMs evaluate talent. 1 year of college experience is very valuable in helping evaluate NBA talent against a higher level of competition then just high school. High school basketball is a bit of a joke because a lot of very athletic players can dominate at that level it becomes tough to evaluate who is going to succeed. When you are committing millions of dollars to a teenager you'd want that extra year to evaluate. Only very few kids actually have the ability to be productive and compete coming out of high school to the NBA.
I'm not the biggest fan of the NBA "1 and done" rule because it does seem to have some negative affects on the sport of college basketball but it's the NBA owners right to enforce that rule. Kids don't have to play college basketball if they don't want to. If they are talented enough you can go play pro for a year in Europe. Nobody is stopping them. For the upper-echelon few kids that are going to NBA lottery picks you can make the case they actually benefit from the 1 year in college as opposed to going overseas, because they'll receive top level coaching and they'll get way more exposure to build their brands then then they ever would playing overseas. Also let's be honest. The top recruits in college basketball are already getting paid behind closed doors.
The NBA should (eventually will) allow 18/19 year olds to sign with D-League teams before getting drafted. This will help the D-League gain more traction, sell more tickets, etc.
USC truly got hosed. The NCAA truly hates the little school north of Watts.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 11, 2018, 03:38:56 PM
A national outlet finally stumbles upon something we've known here for a long time.... Butler fans are ranked the second-most obnoxious in all of college hoops
https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/worst-college-basketball-fans
At least they are ranked and have fans. i.e., a rowdy student section and raucous white haired septugenarian fanatics.
Why is that?
Why isn't Valpo abnoxious?
Why isn't Valpo intense?
Valpo is a small college aching to be big-time. Why aren't we doing everything possible to get there? At least from an environment perspective.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 11, 2018, 08:24:00 PMUSC truly got hosed. The NCAA truly hates the little school north of Watts.
We are sorry with you :'( :'( and for your disappointment. :'( BUT Maybe they got this one right.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2018, 08:27:07 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 11, 2018, 03:38:56 PM
A national outlet finally stumbles upon something we've known here for a long time.... Butler fans are ranked the second-most obnoxious in all of college hoops
https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/worst-college-basketball-fans
At least they are ranked and have fans. i.e., a rowdy student section and raucous white haired septugenarian fanatics.
Why is that?
Why isn't Valpo abnoxious?
Why isn't Valpo intense?
Valpo is a small college aching to be big-time. Why aren't we doing everything possible to get there? At least from an environment perspective.
There is a difference between being intense/having a rowdy student and being obnoxious.
I'm sure our former Horizon League member consider us "obnoxious". I'm sure all Horizon League fans pre-2012 remember Butler fans attitude. I'm just so damn tired of hearing the butler way BS. No there is no way. They hired amazing coach in Brad Stevens and caught fire and road that momentum to a invite to the big east. I'm not taking anything away from them because they do have a strong program.
Screw the obnoxoius stuff. That was not my point.
To be obnoxious or even intense you hsve to have bodies in the stands. BU does it. We generally do not.
So what did we exhibit this year? A half full "HS gym" with questionable intensity, little game experience-atmosphere and excitement and few reasons to come back after attending for, maybe, one game.
Face it, we don' t understand how to promote at this level and we have to learn damn fast.
It is not just the BB program tbat needs to sort it out, it is also the athletic department and the university.
Most of this comes down to money. Investment. Faith that investment will produce the return that was originally anticipated. Until the higher ups finally realize that the MVC is THE vehicle not just another step we have a problem.
Are we there or is this suddenly a shock?
Quote from: VU2014 on March 11, 2018, 09:35:07 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2018, 08:27:07 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 11, 2018, 03:38:56 PM
A national outlet finally stumbles upon something we've known here for a long time.... Butler fans are ranked the second-most obnoxious in all of college hoops
https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/worst-college-basketball-fans
At least they are ranked and have fans. i.e., a rowdy student section and raucous white haired septugenarian fanatics.
Why is that?
Why isn't Valpo abnoxious?
Why isn't Valpo intense?
Valpo is a small college aching to be big-time. Why aren't we doing everything possible to get there? At least from an environment perspective.
There is a difference between being intense/having a rowdy student and being obnoxious.
I'm sure our former Horizon League member consider us "obnoxious". I'm sure all Horizon League fans pre-2012 remember Butler fans attitude. I'm just so damn tired of hearing the butler way BS. No there is no way. They hired amazing coach in Brad Stevens and caught fire and road that momentum to a invite to the big east. I'm not taking anything away from them because they do have a strong program.
To be fair, Barry Collier and his 2 for 1 mentality would like a word with you.
In 1989-90 Butler was 6-22. In 1989-90, Valpo was 4-24. Where is each program now?
I didn't say we matched their success. I was just pointing out that without Brad Stevens that program is probably either in the A10 or MVC. They literally caught fire and road that momentum into a Big East invite. A lot of circumstance went into it also because they did it all in the era of realignment. They developed a strong coaching tree that started with Barry. Butler also had/has an administration that really throws it's weight behind their program. Valpo can't say the same... our admin squandered any and all momentum after the sweet 16 run and just basically hoped Homer could work his magic again with out really investing in the program.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2018, 11:14:50 AM
I didn't say we matched their success. I was just pointing out that without Brad Stevens that program is probably either in the A10 or MVC. They literally caught fire and road that momentum into a Big East invite. A lot of circumstance went into it also because they did it all in the era of realignment. They developed a strong coaching tree that started with Barry. Butler also had/has an administration that really throws it's weight behind their program. Valpo can't say the same... our admin squandered any and all momentum after the sweet 16 run and just basically hoped Homer could work his magic again with out really investing in the program.
Stevens yes, though you still need the players. Bryce beat him a few times and Bryce isn't coaching in the NBA. What really happened is having two NBA players plus Matt Howard on the same team. They have had really good players since but not NBA level good. They play a very solid style of basketball that is hard to defeat by a bunch of point. As far as commitment, it is far easier to be committed when you are getting your share of the NCAA pie from the Big East versus the Horizon.
If only the ARC's seats were more comfy and the bathrooms were nicer, Valpo would be in the Big East right now.
Quote from: a3uge on March 12, 2018, 05:21:44 PM
If only the ARC's seats were more comfy and the bathrooms were nicer, Valpo would be in the Big East right now.
If only the ARC received a face lift it could impress recruits more... there is a reason the Drews were asking for ARC renovations...
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2018, 11:14:50 AM
I didn't say we matched their success. I was just pointing out that without Brad Stevens that program is probably either in the A10 or MVC. They literally caught fire and road that momentum into a Big East invite. A lot of circumstance went into it also because they did it all in the era of realignment. They developed a strong coaching tree that started with Barry. Butler also had/has an administration that really throws it's weight behind their program. Valpo can't say the same... our admin squandered any and all momentum after the sweet 16 run and just basically hoped Homer could work his magic again with out really investing in the program.
The program clearly road on Stephen's coattails. As 2014 points out, they got really lucky with how the stars aligned.
Somewhat similar to Valpo's recent history ... successful seasons under a great coach (Bryce) and an NBA star (along with several other pros) helped get Valpo into the MVC when Wichita decided to bolt. Timing was right.
A very true statement. A moment like UMBC had last night could change the Universities fortunes as a whole. They'll be receiving application boost next season. Success in D1 men's basketball and FBS football can really have a strong impact on a University if the school is willing to responsibly in invest in a program.
We are never going to go make the leap to FBS football or probably ever full scholarship FCS, but we our Men's Basketball program does have the chance to make that type of impact if we invest in the program.
https://twitter.com/byesline/status/974857221837238272
Quote from: VU2014 on March 17, 2018, 01:23:13 PM
A very true statement. A moment like UMBC had last night could change the Universities fortunes as a whole. They'll be receiving application boost next season. Success in D1 men's basketball and FBS football can really have a strong impact on a University if the school is willing to responsibly in invest in a program.
We are never going to go make the leap to FBS football or probably ever full scholarship FCS, but we our Men's Basketball program does have the chance to make that type of impact if we invest in the program.
https://twitter.com/byesline/status/974857221837238272
UMBC's success seems to have nothing to do with budgets or investing in basketball, considering they were a 16 seed.
They have an opportunity to build off this. Yes, UMBC's administration did invest in the program...
'All grown up': UMBC invests in athletics with $85 million Event Center
By: Libby SolomonContact Reporter
Catonsville Times
January 31, 2018
A fan seated in the uppermost rows of the new arena at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County will get a sweeping view of $85 million of gray and gold and glass.
After buying popcorn from a full-size concession stand, the fan will watch from one of 5,000 seats as a team of UMBC athletes — its Division I basketball or volleyball players — competes atop a wooden floor that can be pulled off its concrete base and stacked up like an enormous jigsaw puzzle.
......
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-county/catonsville/ph-ca-at-umbc-event-center-0131-story.html
Quote from: VU2014 on March 17, 2018, 05:13:31 PM
They have an opportunity to build off this. Yes, UMBC's administration did invest in the program...
'All grown up': UMBC invests in athletics with $85 million Event Center
By: Libby SolomonContact Reporter
Catonsville Times
January 31, 2018
A fan seated in the uppermost rows of the new arena at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County will get a sweeping view of $85 million of gray and gold and glass.
After buying popcorn from a full-size concession stand, the fan will watch from one of 5,000 seats as a team of UMBC athletes — its Division I basketball or volleyball players — competes atop a wooden floor that can be pulled off its concrete base and stacked up like an enormous jigsaw puzzle.
......
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-county/catonsville/ph-ca-at-umbc-event-center-0131-story.html
Pretty much all of the rationale for that investment (and the immediate benefits already coming in) in one short article. Do you think they used the construction and the architect drawings while recruiting the present team ::). But it still comes down to good coaching as welll - note the women are not reaping its benefits..... yet.
Amazing there is still mileage on these old tires:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mike-hutton-column-st-0318-20180317-story.html
:cheers:
I was a big Purdue fan just for today. ;D
https://twitter.com/BoilerBall/status/975438457706352641
Quote from: VU2014 on March 18, 2018, 01:28:38 PMI was a big Purdue fan just for today.
I felt a little guilty about it but with Haas out I was leaning toward Purdue as well. :thumbsup:
Amen.
https://twitter.com/kj_franko/status/975166573236367360
Remember thast every year the NCAA tourney hs one or two Mid-majors that get white hot at tourney time then go away in the years that follow....George Mason comes to mind.
Not only has Loyola made it to the Sweet Sixteen, but their chances of moving on to the Elite Eight (and getting more money for the league) may have improved with 7-seed Nevada's upset of 2-seed Cincinnati. The MVC representative is still in the tournament, but look at this list with ten of the teams that already have been sent home: North Carolina, Virginia, Michigan State, Arizona, Tennessee, Xavier, Ohio State, Florida, Auburn, and Butler. I love March Madness! :thumbsup:
As of right now they've made about $500,000 for each member of the conference by making it to the Sweet 16.
Quote from: valpopal on March 18, 2018, 10:21:31 PMNot only has Loyola made it to the Sweet Sixteen, but their chances of moving on to the Elite Eight (and getting more money for the league) may have improved with 7-seed Nevada's upset of 2-seed Cincinnati.
The 6 man Nevada rotation is interesting. How they play such good defense without fouling is a testament to their discipline. They shouldn't have gotten by Cincinnati. :o
On paper I love Loyola's chances but nothing this tournament season has made any logical sense. The fact that the winner will face the Kentucky (5)- Kansas St (9) winner opens the door of opportunity even further.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 18, 2018, 10:32:42 PM
As of right now they've made about $500,000 for each member of the conference by making it to the Sweet 16.
It's something like that, but maybe not quite that much, and over six years (this year and five more), right?
So, a nice boost, but I guess one year's wins don't make a huge impact on a program's budget. Now, if the Valley can keep it up over the next seasons...
[Updated a couple of times, with better info.]
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/19/us/ap-bkc-ncaa-tournament-units.html
has some current numbers and even Valley specifics (but do they get the part wrong about not getting a unit for making it into the first game?).
Sounds like the Valley divides thing into probably 10.5 shares, with somehow the NCAA/traveling team getting a bonus.
The Times is estimating $1.7M for the conference, over six years, for each win. (I suspect that's _an additional_ $1.7M, but they seem to say it differently.)
So, for two wins, something like $35k/year for Valpo. Not going to turn it down, but it doesn't by itself have a big impact on the budget.
Anyway, hopefully the Valley keeps it up, and continues to earn multiple units per year, as has been the tradition. (An extra $200k per year? That'd be a nice little boost. But still less than ten percent.)
So have they earned 3 units now since they will be guaranteed to play in 3 games? Extra money is a beautiful thing. It's no wonder these bigger conferences squeeze out the mids to get as many teams as possible in this tournament.
Does the NIT give out anything (I'm guessing not since teams decline to participate)?
Quote from: agibson on March 19, 2018, 06:13:41 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 18, 2018, 10:32:42 PM
As of right now they've made about $500,000 for each member of the conference by making it to the Sweet 16.
It's something like that, but maybe not quite that much, and over six years (this year and five more), right?
So, a nice boost, but I guess one year's wins don't make a huge impact on a program's budget. Now, if the Valley can keep it up over the next seasons...
[Updated a couple of times, with better info.]
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/19/us/ap-bkc-ncaa-tournament-units.html
has some current numbers and even Valley specifics (but do they get the part wrong about not getting a unit for making it into the first game?).
Sounds like the Valley divides thing into probably 10.5 shares, with somehow the NCAA/traveling team getting a bonus.
The Times is estimating $1.7M for the conference, over six years, for each win. (I suspect that's _an additional_ $1.7M, but they seem to say it differently.)
So, for two wins, something like $35k/year for Valpo. Not going to turn it down, but it doesn't by itself have a big impact on the budget.
Anyway, hopefully the Valley keeps it up, and continues to earn multiple units per year, as has been the tradition. (An extra $200k per year? That'd be a nice little boost. But still less than ten percent.)
Easier to decipher from this website.
How Much Money Each NCAA Tournament Team Earned for Their Conference (through round 2) (https://herosports.com/college-basketball/ncaa-tournament-money-basketball-fund-conference-ahah)
Looks like right now Loyola has earned $4,914,000 for the MVC so if we are using agibson's numbers of 10.5 shares with Loyola getting 1.5 shares and the other teams getting 1 share, VU's share would be $78,000 per year for 6 years.
Quote from: FWalum on March 19, 2018, 08:58:27 AMEasier to decipher from this website.
How Much Money Each NCAA Tournament Team Earned for Their Conference (through round 2)
Looks like right now Loyola has earned $4,914,000 for the MVC so if we are using agibson's numbers of 10.5 shares with Loyola getting 1.5 shares and the other teams getting 1 share, VU's share would be $78,000 per year for 6 years.
Yep, that's easier. And is consistent with my recollection that being _in_ the tournament definitely gets you a unit (as does winning play-in games). Not sure why the NY Times seems to contradict that.
All it needs is a cumulative/historical list, so you can see how much money each league/team will collect this year.
I'm surprised if the Valley offices don't take a cut (like the Horizon offices did/do), but the NY Times piece had a chance to mention that and didn't.
Wow! And let's see, what is the HL going to share with their members? Oh yes , and Oakland, with that powerhouse team this year they went..............aahhh, oh yes, down the tubes.
Will Valpo have access to any money left over from Wichita States runs over the last several years? I thought I remember us being exempt this first year but wasn't sure if that would continue
Quote from: valpo64 on March 19, 2018, 10:54:58 AM
Wow! And let's see, what is the HL going to share with their members? Oh yes , and Oakland, with that powerhouse team this year they went..............aahhh, oh yes, down the tubes.
Down the tubes, indeed. Without a premier program like Valpo, I predict the HL will be earning the minimum shares for years to come. They got out just in time!
The HL has only earned minimum shares every year recently except for those two Butler runs.
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 19, 2018, 11:50:26 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on March 19, 2018, 10:54:58 AM
Wow! And let's see, what is the HL going to share with their members? Oh yes , and Oakland, with that powerhouse team this year they went..............aahhh, oh yes, down the tubes.
Down the tubes, indeed. Without a premier program like Valpo, I predict the HL will be earning the minimum shares for years to come. They got out just in time!
And the quality of the teams adds to the ultimate reality that getting more then one share is really hard when your best team gets a 14 seed while in some conferences you can finish tied for sixth and still get a 10 seed. A lot easier to win a game from the 10 versus the 14 or 15.
Quote from: M on March 19, 2018, 12:14:56 PM
The HL has only earned minimum shares every year recently except for those two Butler runs.
And Cleveland State the year before. But, yeah.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 19, 2018, 11:26:46 AM
Will Valpo have access to any money left over from Wichita States runs over the last several years? I thought I remember us being exempt this first year but wasn't sure if that would continue
I don't know that I've seen the details for the Valley. But, I think it's common for teams to lose their shares when they leave. And, I bet it's also common (maybe true in the Horizon?) for teams to only get money for the units earned while they were around. So, it might be that even with the Loyola wins we get _less_ money this year than if we'd stayed in the Horizon. Only because we'd have had 5 years of old minimum units in the Horizon, but no years of old units in the Valley, just this year of 3+ units. (OK, I guess if Loyola gets to the championship we can break even.) But this is conjecture.
Much can be learned from UMBC from this tournament. How many across the country, dare I say world, knew who they were a couple weeks ago? What did they do? They made their presence known through entering the history books. How? Tenacity. Resilience. Heart.
What else did I notice? Their social media presence. Their twitter handle. We have how many communication majors? Professors? Make it a priority to improve our brand. We're not just "the shot" any longer, are we? That was 20 years ago. Bryce moved on.
Did you watch Loyola's coach? His involvement in the student body? What's our MO? Who are we?
Did you notice, going back to UMBC, what they said about their new athletic facility? How they're looking forward to seeing people there for the 2018-2019 season? How they're looking for a sponsor?
Come on, people. The definition of insanity, as Einstein declared, is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.
Who are we? What are we known for? Our program's only legacy is aging like the ARC. It's soon going to be left behind. People move on. New shots are made. New one shining moments.
What did UMBC do? They are creating their own shining moment. But, they made a bold investment into the infrastructure BEFORE winning tournament games. Before!
Who are we? Will we rally to be part of the new Valpo era? Look at the conference we're in! Rise up!
Look at what UMBC did. They are using this as a platform to catapult them! What about us? What about VU?
So do we read into the lack of news on outbound transfers from Valpo as a positive? Too early?
When do the kids come back from spring break?
They are back now. I don't know the answers to the other questions.
Northwestern just lost it's top recruiter for the Chicagoland area in Armon Gates. He had a cup of coffee at TCU, before taking a job on Loyola's staff in 2011 and left to join the Northwestern staff in 2013. Who was the Coach that replaced him on Loyola's staff? Emanuel Dildy. I haven't heard anything but I'd imagine his name would be discussed as a possible replacement for Gates. I'd think they're going to pursue a coach with experience and strong recruiting ties to the CPL. I want to emphasize this is just speculation on my part.
https://twitter.com/joehoopsreport/status/983110697537232896
Quote from: VU2014 on April 08, 2018, 06:39:49 PMEmanuel Dildy. I haven't heard anything but I'd imagine his name would be discussed as a possible replacement for Gates. I'd think they're going to pursue a coach with experience and strong recruiting ties to the CPL. I want to emphasize this is just speculation on my part
Well,if that's what they are looking for, Tracy Dildy was let go at Chicago State so he is available.
Have a look at this nonconference schedule... WKU putting in work.
https://twitter.com/BradBGDN/status/984171956747538435?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sycamorepride.com%2Fshowthread.php%3F39535-2018-2019-Basketball-Schedule%2Fpage2
Saint Mary's playing on the road?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l3q2K5jinAlChoCLS/giphy.gif)
Wow big time offer for Trace. He's a former VHS player who is attending prep school at Don Bosco. He has really upped his stock since High School. Good for him. Hard work pays off.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/trace-ramsey
https://twitter.com/traceramsey_/status/987163489847382016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMmP5-ZQYZk&feature=youtu.be
Just saw yesterday that the PAC 12 is exploring the possibility of going to a 20 game conference schedule as soon as 2019 joining the Big 10 (effective this coming year) and the ACC (effective 2019) in doing so. The Big East has also explored the idea of adding a team (presumably UCONN) and doing the same. All of this is really bad news for mid majors as this is very likely to cause further realignment and scheduling issues. The need for added quality in conferences like the MVC is about to become critical. I hope Commissioner Elgin has a plan for this new era.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 25, 2018, 03:07:07 PM
Just saw yesterday that the PAC 12 is exploring the possibility of going to a 20 game conference schedule as soon as 2019 joining the Big 10 (effective this coming year) and the ACC (effective 2019) in doing so. The Big East has also explored the idea of adding a team (presumably UCONN) and doing the same. All of this is really bad news for mid majors as this is very likely to cause further realignment and scheduling issues. The need for added quality in conferences like the MVC is about to become critical. I hope Commissioner Elgin has a plan for this new era.
Say that the P6 all follow the leader to these "20 game" type schedules where mid majors are all but ignored in OOC. And let's say 5-years elapse to where little to no mid majors get P6 OOC games.
How on earth does making the MVC harder to win by adding other quality mid majors help us? I'm admittedly not a data savant, but we beat each other up and still get passed over for at large.
How are we ever going to get solid RPI / SOS etc if the experts are unable to rank any mid majors until tournament time?
I'm not seeing the big picture here, admittedly. I want to better understand how a 12-team MVC ever gets an at-large bid in that landscape? Or even a 10-team MVC for that matter.
The way I see it, forget OOC at that point because it's a fart in the wind. Let's destroy each other in conference and send a MVC Sweet 16 team nearly every year. That's the only way, over time, that attitudes change and get a MVC level conference with semi regular at large. Is this why you want 12-teams? So we can get no at large bids for the (let's say) 6-years it takes to make a dent in the national scene with that scenario?
I think OOC scheduling to get at-large bid consideration is a thing of the past at this point.
Ignorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy: Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not? Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.
The WCC is a multi-bid league (most years ) because of one word: Gonzaga That team is so strong so good and so dominant that one win against them which is usually all SMC and BYU can manage is good enough to cover a lot of holes in a team's resume which is why SMC could afford those dog-crap schedules. Split with the Zags and win 25-27 games and you're golden. Take away the Bulldogs and that league likely never achieves multibid status again.
The A10's word is scheduling. Plain and simple the A10 flat out outscheduled the MVC after Creighton left the Valley and the scheduling mandate was withdrawn . They also frequently did well against those tougher schedules and were rewarded with bids creating the perception of a stronger league. The A-10 frequently found itself between 7-9 in conf. SOS while the Valley often checked in at 11-13. This year although the MVC as a whole did a better job URI and St Bonaventure were able to get in despite losses to Davidson because of their strong nonconference resumes while Loyola would have missed out because their schedule was weak. Davidson being a strong addition to offset the losses of Butler and Xavier also helped.
Perception is the word that has dogged the MVC after the departure of Creighton and that continued to be the case before Loyola's run this year. The perception was that the MVC was driven by Wichita State in a manner similar to how Gonzaga drives the WCC. In a few years UNI was able to play the role of a stronger more ambitious SMC which furnished the Valley with a second bid some years but the weak schedules and poor play at the bottom of the conference were often too much to overcome. The Shockers seemingly inexhaustible resources compared to other schools in the conference also sapped the desire of these teams to compete knowing the best they could do was second place and maybe the NIT. In some ways the conference brought that on themselves. Add to it the fact that Loyola took so long to get going after they replaced Creighton and a perception was created that the MVC would not survive without its flagship members. The committee saw these things and rightly or wrongly bought into that perception which created an uphill battle for the MVC. Hopefully we'll all remain strong and competitive and Loyola's run opened some eyes in a meaningful way. However I suspect we'll have to make another run or two before the committee finally adjusts to the new reality of the strong MVC worthy of multiple bids.
Quite a summarry. Thanks. Makes sense. But I still wonder how the #2 WCC (SMC) gets an at large while a #2 to WSU (Illinois State) gets zilch in 2017. Wasn't ISU at least equal to the #3 A10 school?
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 25, 2018, 06:57:05 PM
Ignorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy: Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not? Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.
The MVC typically isn't as good of a conference as the A10, which makes sense because the top top teams have bigger budgets. The bigger budgets allow them to play 60% of their ooc games at home, while the MVC only plays around 40% at home. This past year the MVC was a great conference, but everyone played each other evenly, so everyone's RPIs hovered around 100, so no team could get the covetted Top 50 Winz that the selection committee seems to only care about.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 25, 2018, 08:51:32 PM
Quite a summarry. Thanks. Makes sense. But I still wonder how the #2 WCC (SMC) gets an at large while a #2 to WSU (Illinois State) gets zilch in 2017. Wasn't ISU at least equal to the #3 A10 school?
Yes they were in RPI URI was 31 ISUr was 33. However SOS matters too. ISUr clocked in at 124 to URI's 55. SMC was 75 that year (RPI 17) and had a win over Gonzaga (RPI 8). Wichita State's was 32 (SOS 140).
Conference SOS rankings that year:
WCC:7
A10: 8
MVC:11
When the RPIs are close as they were that year 30-33 were Dayton URI WSU ISUr SOS REALLY matters. It's what doomed SMC this year (SOS 169 WCC Conference SOS rank:12 RPI rank:13)
Yes the MVC beat the A10 in both, (8 vs 11 in RPI and 8 vs 9 in SOS) HOWEVER our strongest RPI team (Loyola) had a weak SOS (127) while our strongest SOS teams ISUr(55) UNI (73) and ISUb (88) all crapped the bed at inopportune times hurting their RPIs. Furthermore no MVC team except Loyola won more than 20 games while the top 3 in the A10 all beat that mark with URI and St Bonaventure each winning at least 25 games with SOS of 59 and 89 respectively).
This is why I've harped so much on scheduling. The ship carrying your chances of making the tournament is liable to sink if you can't put out a good, strong SOS.
Quote from: a3uge on April 25, 2018, 08:58:28 PMQuote from: VULB#62 on April 25, 2018, 06:57:05 PMIgnorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy: Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not? Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.
The MVC typically isn't as good of a conference as the A10, which makes sense because the top top teams have bigger budgets. The bigger budgets allow them to play 60% of their ooc games at home, while the MVC only plays around 40% at home. This past year the MVC was a great conference, but everyone played each other evenly, so everyone's RPIs hovered around 100, so no team could get the covetted Top 50 Winz that the selection committee seems to only care about.
Budgets help but using that as the main reason is a cop-out. If I remember correctly Mark Adams tracked some 70 victories by smaller budget schools over big budget foes many of which came from our own MVC. You've got to schedule well and win to get in. The doorway through which mid majors must walk to get into the tournament is extremely narrow. Eat one too many cupcakes and you'll be too fat to get through. As your waistline expands your path gets narrower through an ever-shrinking margin for error which is already razor thin outside the P5\BE.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 25, 2018, 09:38:57 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 25, 2018, 08:58:28 PMQuote from: VULB#62 on April 25, 2018, 06:57:05 PMIgnorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy: Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not? Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.
The MVC typically isn't as good of a conference as the A10, which makes sense because the top top teams have bigger budgets. The bigger budgets allow them to play 60% of their ooc games at home, while the MVC only plays around 40% at home. This past year the MVC was a great conference, but everyone played each other evenly, so everyone's RPIs hovered around 100, so no team could get the covetted Top 50 Winz that the selection committee seems to only care about.
Budgets help but using that as the main reason is a cop-out. If I remember correctly Mark Adams tracked some 70 victories by smaller budget schools over big budget foes many of which came from our own MVC. You've got to schedule well and win to get in. The doorway through which mid majors must walk to get into the tournament is extremely narrow. Eat one too many cupcakes and you'll be too fat to get through. As your waistline expands your path gets narrower through an ever-shrinking margin for error which is already razor thin outside the P5\BE.
Scheduling harder means more losses for everyone. For example, if Evansville schedules road games vs Kentucky, Kansas, and North Carolina instead of home games vs Canisius, Binghamton, and Arkansas State, they'll be 0-3 in those games vs 3-0, which contributes negatively to the rest of the conference. The top teams should have at-large caliber schedules, but it's counterproductive for the middle and bottom half of the league to schedule more losses.
If you need a few good examples how scheduling changed the dynamic of a conference, look at the Horizon vs the MAC. The Horizon consistently had a top 10 OOC SOS while the MAC was usually bottom 3. The MAC's easier scheduling has allowed their teams to get better seeds than the Horizon's teams without actually being better or having a better resume.
Not if you schedule smartly and strategically for where your team is at (and you can do that without excessively indulging in creampuffs. There is NO REASON for ANY MVC team to play a bunch of Q4 games. To the best of our ability Q3 and above with no non-D1s should be the mandate. That shouldn't result in too many additional losses. I would never advocate for any MVC team to take multiple buy games against blue bloods. That's neither smart nor strategic.
A twenty game schedule would be a wise choice for the conference of champions. Let's ask Bill Walton.
What makes a top mid major? Kevin Sweeney shares his thoughts:
https://cbbcentral.com/2018/05/12/nevada-showing-top-to-bottom-effort-necessary-to-become-elite/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 13, 2018, 09:30:44 AM
What makes a top mid major? Kevin Sweeney shares his thoughts:
https://cbbcentral.com/2018/05/12/nevada-showing-top-to-bottom-effort-necessary-to-become-elite/
University of Nevada is 21,000 students with a sizable endowment. Like BYU, how are they even classified as a mid-major? Forget conferences, Valpo will never reach that size or market size so next.....
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 25, 2018, 10:14:53 PM
Not if you schedule smartly and strategically for where your team is at (and you can do that without excessively indulging in creampuffs. There is NO REASON for ANY MVC team to play a bunch of Q4 games. To the best of our ability Q3 and above with no non-D1s should be the mandate. That shouldn't result in too many additional losses. I would never advocate for any MVC team to take multiple buy games against blue bloods. That's neither smart nor strategic.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/420254226267136000/GI3_MuwF_400x400.jpeg)
Why not? We have some really good athletic facilities in Oakland County. The other MVC teams have really good basketball facilities.
Do you?
Here is a wake-up call to reality. Try to wrap your head around these numbers when considering what the mid-major schools are facing when trying to compete financially with top-tier universities, whether to upgrade facilities, recruit student-athletes, add staff, or promote programs. The total current endowment for Valparaiso University is $235 million. Today, the news reports that Michigan State University has agreed to pay more than twice that amount, a $500 million settlement, in its sports medicine sex case. MSU can afford this and move forward because they have an endowment of nearly $3 billion, which nevertheless pales in comparison to rival University of Michigan, which has an endowment of $11 billion.
And yet they manipulate the selection criteria to screw teams in smaller conferences out of what would be at most a couple hundred thousand dollars a year most years. That's pathetically petty.
Quote from: valpopal on May 16, 2018, 01:04:20 PM
......... The total current endowment for Valparaiso University is $235 million. Today, the news reports that Michigan State University has agreed to pay more than twice that amount, a $500 million settlement, in its sports medicine sex case. MSU can afford this and move forward because they have an endowment of nearly $3 billion, which nevertheless pales in comparison to rival University of Michigan, which has an endowment of $11 billion.
...... which nevertheless pales in comparison to Harvard University, which has an endowment of $30+ billion. But, alas, they are not top tier BB. :crazy:
Quote from: a3uge on April 25, 2018, 10:03:21 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 25, 2018, 09:38:57 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 25, 2018, 08:58:28 PMQuote from: VULB#62 on April 25, 2018, 06:57:05 PMIgnorant questions for tbe guys on the board who are clued in and really, really BB super-savy: Why is the A-10 always a multi-bid league and the MVC is not? Why is the WCC always a multi-bid conference and the MVC is not? The top two in each of those conferences would be sucking wind playing in the MVC.
The MVC typically isn't as good of a conference as the A10, which makes sense because the top top teams have bigger budgets. The bigger budgets allow them to play 60% of their ooc games at home, while the MVC only plays around 40% at home. This past year the MVC was a great conference, but everyone played each other evenly, so everyone's RPIs hovered around 100, so no team could get the covetted Top 50 Winz that the selection committee seems to only care about.
Budgets help but using that as the main reason is a cop-out. If I remember correctly Mark Adams tracked some 70 victories by smaller budget schools over big budget foes many of which came from our own MVC. You've got to schedule well and win to get in. The doorway through which mid majors must walk to get into the tournament is extremely narrow. Eat one too many cupcakes and you'll be too fat to get through. As your waistline expands your path gets narrower through an ever-shrinking margin for error which is already razor thin outside the P5\BE.
Scheduling harder means more losses for everyone. For example, if Evansville schedules road games vs Kentucky, Kansas, and North Carolina instead of home games vs Canisius, Binghamton, and Arkansas State, they'll be 0-3 in those games vs 3-0, which contributes negatively to the rest of the conference. The top teams should have at-large caliber schedules, but it's counterproductive for the middle and bottom half of the league to schedule more losses.
If you need a few good examples how scheduling changed the dynamic of a conference, look at the Horizon vs the MAC. The Horizon consistently had a top 10 OOC SOS while the MAC was usually bottom 3. The MAC's easier scheduling has allowed their teams to get better seeds than the Horizon's teams without actually being better or having a better resume.
You are a man among boys when it comes to understanding scheduling dynamics and conference positioning.
Except that his example while true is outdated and ill-suited for today's climate. RPI has fallen out of favor and been replaced to a large degree by other metrics such as KenPom. At a minimum it is clear that SOS has replaced RPI as a defining metric when evaluating teams. Virtually every argument we hear for P5 teams on the bubble and against mids is SOS based. So while it's great to have those gaudy RPIs if those wins don't have teeth they mean nothing. That's how a team like St Mary's can win 27 28 games and have an RPI between 40-50 and still miss the tournament. It's also how Belmont and Evansville can win 23-25 games and get no NIT bid. The A10 showed us this year what we need to do. Anything else is using yesterday's weapons technology to fight today's wars. That's why there hasn't been a legitimate bubble team from the MAC in years because the model described in that post and held to as the way forward for mid majors doesn't work anymore. Remember RPI is the code the MVC cracked to get 7 bids in two years in the mid 2000s which is a major reason why we have what we have today. The conference and indeed mid majors by and large including their fans have struggled to adapt which is why we are where we are. SOS is what matters and there are ways to do that strategically without getting smashed in buy games by elite P5 schools.
I beg to differ '13. SOS hasn't replaced RPI; instead, it has become a significant secondary factor. Had SOS replaced RPI, Oakland would have been a shoe-in at-large every year it prostituted itself with an OOC schedule full of pay games against high majors it couldn't possibly beat. The key for mid-majors maximizing their potential in today's world is to not over or under schedule relative to your own team's ability. Accordingly, if the best and worst teams in your conference have the same OOC SOS, either one over scheduled or the other underscheduled, and your conference will pay a price for it on Selection Sunday. Exactly what a3uge said.
So basically for the MVC Illinois State Loyola and SIU should schedule as well as they can with an assist from Bradley UNI Missouri State and us who put together solid but not back breaking schedules while Indiana State Drake and Evansville just try to gobble up as many wins as they can?
I believe the endowment when I entered VU in the fall of 1974 was $8 million (I have heard that the endowment in 1968 was $0.) The first $1 million gift in university history was made in either 1977 or 1978.
Paul
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 16, 2018, 03:23:29 PM
So basically for the MVC Illinois State Loyola and SIU should schedule as well as they can with an assist from Bradley UNI Missouri State and us who put together solid but not back breaking schedules while Indiana State Drake and Evansville just try to gobble up as many wins as they can?
Generally, that's it. That, and a conference-wide prohibition against scheduling teams with a 200 or higher RPI. Those are both RPI and SOS killers.
Quote from: wh on May 16, 2018, 05:00:00 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 16, 2018, 03:23:29 PM
So basically for the MVC Illinois State Loyola and SIU should schedule as well as they can with an assist from Bradley UNI Missouri State and us who put together solid but not back breaking schedules while Indiana State Drake and Evansville just try to gobble up as many wins as they can?
Generally, that's it. That, and a conference-wide prohibition against scheduling teams with a 200 or higher RPI. Those are both RPI and SOS killers.
Realistically an arbitrary 200 or better guideline would be difficult to follow but something is needed. Many of the decent OOC Tournaments also come saddled with some lower level home game RPI baggage.
As for the VUGrad1314 quote, I would say that Indiana St should schedule with the mid tier and not with the rebuilding programs for 18-19.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 16, 2018, 02:31:45 PM
Except that his example while true is outdated and ill-suited for today's climate. RPI has fallen out of favor and been replaced to a large degree by other metrics such as KenPom. At a minimum it is clear that SOS has replaced RPI as a defining metric when evaluating teams. Virtually every argument we hear for P5 teams on the bubble and against mids is SOS based. So while it's great to have those gaudy RPIs if those wins don't have teeth they mean nothing. That's how a team like St Mary's can win 27 28 games and have an RPI between 40-50 and still miss the tournament. It's also how Belmont and Evansville can win 23-25 games and get no NIT bid. The A10 showed us this year what we need to do. Anything else is using yesterday's weapons technology to fight today's wars. That's why there hasn't been a legitimate bubble team from the MAC in years because the model described in that post and held to as the way forward for mid majors doesn't work anymore. Remember RPI is the code the MVC cracked to get 7 bids in two years in the mid 2000s which is a major reason why we have what we have today. The conference and indeed mid majors by and large including their fans have struggled to adapt which is why we are where we are. SOS is what matters and there are ways to do that strategically without getting smashed in buy games by elite P5 schools.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 16, 2018, 02:31:45 PM
Except that his example while true is outdated and ill-suited for today's climate. RPI has fallen out of favor and been replaced to a large degree by other metrics such as KenPom. At a minimum it is clear that SOS has replaced RPI as a defining metric when evaluating teams. Virtually every argument we hear for P5 teams on the bubble and against mids is SOS based. So while it's great to have those gaudy RPIs if those wins don't have teeth they mean nothing. That's how a team like St Mary's can win 27 28 games and have an RPI between 40-50 and still miss the tournament. It's also how Belmont and Evansville can win 23-25 games and get no NIT bid. The A10 showed us this year what we need to do. Anything else is using yesterday's weapons technology to fight today's wars. That's why there hasn't been a legitimate bubble team from the MAC in years because the model described in that post and held to as the way forward for mid majors doesn't work anymore. Remember RPI is the code the MVC cracked to get 7 bids in two years in the mid 2000s which is a major reason why we have what we have today. The conference and indeed mid majors by and large including their fans have struggled to adapt which is why we are where we are. SOS is what matters and there are ways to do that strategically without getting smashed in buy games by elite P5 schools.
I think you may have missed my point a bit. I wasn't referring to at-large callivar teams like VCU, Rhode Island, Dayton, or St. Mary's. Those are all decent programs, and should put together hard schedules. All I'm saying is that it would be best for the conference if teams that aren't close to an at-large (which might be everyone next year) to schedule a bit easier.
While it's true RPI is not used when selecting at large teams, it's still the primary tool in seeding mid majors (the bottom of the field). The committee doesn't look at kpom; nor should it, since kpom is meant to be a predictive algorithm. I do not agree that the committee leans heavily on SOS, but even if it did, overall SOS improves as your conferences W/L percentage improves. For example, if Evansville played 10 really tough OOC games and lost 7 of them, Evansville's SOS would improve, but Valpo's would decrease, because their opponent would have a lower W/L record.
I get your point a bit better now but I strongly disagree with your assertion that the MVC lacks at large contenders. I think the conference has a chance to be even better than it was last year. I don't see Loyola getting significantly worse Illinois State looks really strong SIU could make some real noise if healthy Bradley will be good Missouri State Valpo and UNI should be solid Indiana State is showing real promise I don't see Evansville or Drake totally bottoming out either. I think from what I have seen of MVC teams schedules most teams are doing a pretty solid job. Some could use a little work but I haven't seen anything egregious yet.
QuoteGenerally, that's it. That, and a conference-wide prohibition against scheduling teams with a 200 or higher RPI. Those are both RPI and SOS killers.
I agree with something like this, but it needs to be based off a rolling 3-or-5-year average, otherwise you're spending money buying out of contracts if an opponent has an unexpected bad year in the middle of a home-and-home deal. Like if a team's been 250+ for 4 of the past 5 years, nope. If a team has been 140-ish most years but dropped to 210 last year due to a rash of injuries, you don't want to rule them out.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/increased-talent-in-the-mvc/
So much irony. What a complete joke.
https://twitter.com/ByBerkowitz/status/999349521112059904
It's June and Detroit still doesn't have a coach. Maybe they were banking on getting money from the HL suing Valpo to pay for one.
Quote from: may know on June 01, 2018, 06:28:57 AM
It's June and Detroit still doesn't have a coach. Maybe they were banking on getting money from the HL suing Valpo to pay for one.
I feel bad for their fans. I'm not sure how a coaching search takes more than 2 months at this point, but I believe they and Chicago State are the only 2 Division 1 programs without a coaching staff in place right now. Considering where they're at, it's a long road back to relevance in the Horizon League.
They're AD apparently has no clue what he's doing. He was paying Bacari $450k per year with zero head coaching experience and then forced him to hire Jermaine Jackson as an assistant coach who completely undermined Bacari's credibility with the team. There was all kinds of infighting and power struggle in that program.
Detroit Mercy athletics have been a mess for quite a few years now. I saw someone on twitter sarcastically ask to bring back the former AD that was shacking up with one of the assistant basketball coaches lol. Things really are a mess there and it does suck for the fans. They apparently only drew 200 fans to one of their home games last season.
And to think that that program tripped up a very good Valpo team that was on its way to the tournament is a little galling.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/1004153290299527168?s=20
Detroit with a great hire. Davis' son is a 3-star recruit who recently backed out of Houston. Apparently Davis has a pair of decent JuCo's considering coming with.
Maybe Detroit will reunite with Valpo one day if Davis brings them glory days.
This is huge for UDM and for the HL. The HL needs a strong Detroit to stop their free-fall. This could also be big for MVC Expansion by and large. I genuinely believe that Wright State and Northern Kentucky are potentially viable candidates for expansion (perhaps Oakland could be in play if Detroit becomes a strong companion add) but were hurt by the low quality of play in the HL. If Detroit can make a stronger HL the MVC might feel better about going with an HL program as the companion add for Murray State assuming we can't get one or more of Belmont Dayton or SLU.
Davis is definitely a best-case scenario for Detroit right now, and is a good, solid coach.
He actually had a surprising number of kids from outside of Texas and the south in general while at Texas Southern. My only concern if I had one at all is what level of kid is he going to be able to recruit to Detroit. When you've got the city of Houston as the backdrop, kids are going to be willing to travel. When it's Detroit, it's harder.
Great news for Titans fans, but as for making plans for the MVC to come in and pluck them from the Horizon, I'd definitely be in a wait and see mode.
A couple of things I find troubling about Detroit's search for a head coach -
It took them 10 weeks to fill their head coaching vacancy, which means their program sat idle for 2 critical recruiting months - April and May. Clearly, that is an unforced error.
On April 24th Tony Paul of the Detroit News tweeted that Detroit was chasing Rick Pitino. To think that a Catholic university would be trying to woo a fraud and cheat of Pitino's magnitude speaks volumes about institutional character, and more specifically that of their AD. It might also help explain why it took them so long to get a head coach.
Desperation after decades of being a generally underwhelming to bad program can cause people to look in places they otherwise wouldn't for answers.
Apparently this isn't over yet: https://www.freep.com/story/sports/2018/06/06/mikd-davis-detroit-mercy-indiana-texas-southern/677493002/
What a kick in the gut to UDM and the HL if they can't close this. A former P5 coach would rather dominate the SWAC than try to rebuild a program in the HL.It really is sad how far the HL has fallen.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 04:22:08 PM
What a kick in the gut to UDM and the HL if they can't close this. A former P5 coach would rather dominate the SWAC than try to rebuild a program in the HL.It really is sad how far the HL has fallen.
I don't think this single situation is reflective of the league itself. Detroit's been horrendous the last 2 seasons under Alexander, they basically have nothing in terms of roster, and is located in an area of the country in which Mike Davis hasn't been in the last 10+ years. If the salaries are essentially equal and you know that you'll have a better chance of going to the tournament in your current situation in which you're already familiar, that's a hard sell to make to anyone.
In terms of the league as a whole falling off a cliff, yes, it has been drastic, but it was set in motion before the last couple of years where they were the 20th and 24th rated conference on kenpom. Valpo was smart/fortunate to get out when they did.
Quote from: IrishDawg on June 07, 2018, 07:18:46 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 04:22:08 PMWhat a kick in the gut to UDM and the HL if they can't close this. A former P5 coach would rather dominate the SWAC than try to rebuild a program in the HL.It really is sad how far the HL has fallen.
I don't think this single situation is reflective of the league itself. Detroit's been horrendous the last 2 seasons under Alexander, they basically have nothing in terms of roster, and is located in an area of the country in which Mike Davis hasn't been in the last 10+ years. If the salaries are essentially equal and you know that you'll have a better chance of going to the tournament in your current situation in which you're already familiar, that's a hard sell to make to anyone. In terms of the league as a whole falling off a cliff, yes, it has been drastic, but it was set in motion before the last couple of years where they were the 20th and 24th rated conference on kenpom. Valpo was smart/fortunate to get out when they did.
I hope that Valpo is smart enough to point this out against the HL's claim that Valpo caused great damage to the league. It was already trending the wrong way and heading for permanent low major status. Even with Valpo it struggled to maintain status within the top 15-20 in both RPI and KenPom. Case in point, Valpo couldn't have irreparably damaged that which was already irreparably damaged.
I just heard last night that the Horizon League has moved it's offices to South Dakota. Bad new for some members I would think.
If true, they're going to try to raid the Summit League and\or the WAC and want a central base of operations.. New wave of realignment coming up. It shouldn't affect Valpo but it may affect the MVC. It'll be interesting to see how much the HL stretches its footprint and whether the Summit or WAC survive this. The HL could build a much stronger but much less stable league from this if it's true.
Where did you hear the HL moved to SD? I'm pretty sure they're still in Indy.
Quote from: valpo64 on June 12, 2018, 11:08:51 AM
I just heard last night that the Horizon League has moved it's offices to South Dakota. Bad new for some members I would think.
I doubt it. Have you been to South Dakota?? :o
The Summit League is moving, not the Horizon League.
That makes much more sense. I really do think it's with an eye toward further westward expansion. I've long thought a Summit-WAC merger with some pruning around the edges of both conferences was possible.
Certainly true of UMKC, which really near to Omaha/S. Dak schools. Makes a ton of sense. Where was the Summit office before this alleged move?
Is Grand Canyon in the WAC? They might be driving some of this.
Summit League office used to be in the Chicago area (Elmhurst I believe) and yes Grand Canyon is indeed in the WAC. If the two conferences were to link up a conference that could put together a top 4 of South Dakota State New Mexico State GCU and Utah Valley would be pretty strong and could provide a viable alternative for BYU should Gonzaga ever decide to join the MWC. At which point I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see the discussion of moving the offices even further west (Colorado Springs? Salt Lake City?) open up.
Detroit's hiring of Mike Davis is official.
https://twitter.com/detroittitans
How does Western Kentucky land five star recruits over UCLA Kansas Cal and Wake Forest?
http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/06/13/charles-bassey-to-western-kentucky-already-on-campus/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=charles-bassey-to-western-kentucky-already-on-campus
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 13, 2018, 11:20:26 PM
How does Western Kentucky land five star recruits over UCLA Kansas Cal and Wake Forest?
http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/06/13/charles-bassey-to-western-kentucky-already-on-campus/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=charles-bassey-to-western-kentucky-already-on-campus
Jeff Goodman summed it up well. $tansbury
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/1007016713311879175
First they lose their coach to Ole Miss now this. Tough times may be ahead for the Blue Raiders.
https://www.dnj.com/story/sports/college/mtsu/2018/06/15/mtsu-mens-basketball-johnson-dixon-thomas-transferring/706533002/
Mike Davis has an imteresting and I believe solid scheduling strategy which he outlines in the link below:
https://soundcloud.com/sports1430/new-detroit-mercy-basketball-coach-mike-davis
Summary: Home games are nice but tough road games are what really prepare you for conference play. You should seek out the toughest games you can home or away especially in one bid leagues like to HL.
Our situation is slightly different here in the MVC where at large bids still appear possible, so I would add more nuance to the statement by saying that we should seek out the toughest possible winnable games but the core of the statement that a team should go on the road more if it makes their overall schedule stronger rings true to me.
I also liked his idea about recruiting a bit above your level if you can. From Valpo's perspective I think we have done and are doing a great job of this.
Overall a very enjoyable listen but I'm not sure why the interviewer kind of throws Davis under the bus at the end.
It's not a bad strategy to take when you know your firmly in a one bid league. It preps the team for tough competition and taking all those buy games pays for the all the coaching salaries before the conference season even starts. I was wondering if that was a what the contract hold up was with Detroit. Apparently Detroit was offering $300,000, but he wanted to make closer to what Bakari Alexander made at 450k. My guess is that Davis wanted a cut of all the buy game revenue he'd be bringing in.
Everyone tries to recruit above their level to a certain degree. Valpo achieved that most years in the Horizon League, but other schools like Cleveland State under Gary Waters did as well but it didn't work out for them. If you look at Valpo's 2019 recruiting offers, you could make the case we are aiming high with Brendan Newman, Alex Hemenway and Quincy Guerrier. We should try and add at least one potential impact guy per class and in the years where we graduate a big senior class like after the (12-13), (16-17), and future (19-20) it will be critical to hit on recruiting.
If the goal is simply to better prepare the team for conference play by playing teams that are much better than yours (on the road no less), then it's a good strategy, assuming you have the right guys in place who won't mentally fall apart after getting their brains beat in for the first half of the season.
Mike Davis was at Texas Southern for 6 years, and his teams won 13 games (12 against D1 opponents) before January 1st during that timeframe. Last season he literally didn't win a game until New Year's Day. Some tougher games to try and get an at large bid in the MVC (I think most years it will still be a one-bid league) is fine, but you definitely don't want to go to that extreme.
To win any league most years it certainly helps to recruit "above your level", but I think fit and being able to develop players within the system and school is extremely important at a smaller school in which you're going to generally rely on older guys to get you to where you want to go.
I think there's also a difference with Davis using that scheduling strategy at a SWAC school, where that buy-game revenue isn't just important for funding the basketball program, but helping to fund other athletic programs as well, vs. UDM, which as a private school should be a bit more financially stable (SWAC athletic depts. are typically many threads shy of even a shoestring budget).
I'm betting it's also a bit easier to pull off at Texas Southern because you could tell recruits about it up front and use those games as a selling point -- you're going to get to play a bunch of top programs and in famous arenas every year, and it's going to be hard and our non-conference record will be lousy, but it's going to mean we're ready for conference play in a league we tend to dominate, and you'll likely end up in the Dance as a result.
Major changes in recruiting are coming quickly: https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/06/22/major-rule-changes-expected-for-july-live-recruiting-period/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
According to this thread Northern Kentucky will begin a 4 year home and home series with Cincinnati in 2019.
http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1114/hl-non-con-schedules?page=1&scrollTo=3545
Just shameful that teams like this will get the nod over deserving mids when their history shows that they deserve no such favor.
https://twitter.com/Fieldof68Freak/status/1014909262903103493
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 06, 2018, 12:41:13 AM
According to this thread Northern Kentucky will begin a 4 year home and home series with Cincinnati in 2019.
http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1114/hl-non-con-schedules?page=1&scrollTo=3545
I wonder if this series is tied to NKU allowing Cincinnati to use their arena last year?
Quote from: EddieCabot on July 06, 2018, 06:36:33 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 06, 2018, 12:41:13 AM
According to this thread Northern Kentucky will begin a 4 year home and home series with Cincinnati in 2019.
http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1114/hl-non-con-schedules?page=1&scrollTo=3545
I wonder if this series is tied to NKU allowing Cincinnati to use their arena last year?
It was. Still a great deal for them.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1015277320423247872
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 06, 2018, 12:41:13 AMAccording to this thread Northern Kentucky will begin a 4 year home and home series with Cincinnati in 2019. http://horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net/thread/1114/hl-non-con-schedules?page=1&scrollTo=3545
My mistake . The NKU\UC series starts THIS YEAR.
https://twitter.com/dontribunesport/status/1015045828409483265
NKU will host its own MTE. Interesting. Wonder who's involved. All teams involved have made at least one NCAA Tournament since 2013.
https://twitter.com/dontribunesport/status/1016419799897985024
This should be good. Can't see the grounds on which they could challenge the NCAA's decision. Methinks this one should be over quickly.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1016716465687314432
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 10, 2018, 11:04:31 AM
NKU will host its own MTE. Interesting. Wonder who's involved. All teams involved have made at least one NCAA Tournament since 2013.
https://twitter.com/dontribunesport/status/1016419799897985024
It's starting to become a trend for mids in lower leagues to create their own tourney's if they don't have the brand name recognition or resources to get into some of the better neutral site tournaments. Oakland and NKU both are hosting their own tournaments. I'm not sure how much it ultimately is a helpful tournament from a resume perspective but it gives their fans home games.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 10, 2018, 11:18:42 AM
This should be good. Can't see the grounds on which they could challenge the NCAA's decision. Methinks this one should be over quickly.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1016716465687314432
They could just be trying to drawn the NCAA in legal fees to get them to reverse their decision. UNC is was successful at spending tens of millions of dollars on legal fees.
Of course the reverse is that we may learn even more about the depths of depravity to which Pitino's Louisville program allegedly sunk. Seems like a risky play for not much potential gain.
Wonder what happened here. Is he transferring? His numbers sure look good. Yes I know we don't need a PG.
https://twitter.com/MiamiOH_BBall/status/1016458145743417344
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4279433/darrian-ringo
Verbal Commits says he's transferring:
http://verbalcommits.com/players/darrian-ringo
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 10, 2018, 02:46:33 PM
Wonder what happened here. Is he transferring? His numbers sure look good. Yes I know we don't need a PG.
https://twitter.com/MiamiOH_BBall/status/1016458145743417344
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4279433/darrian-ringo
Verbal Commits says he's transferring:
http://verbalcommits.com/players/darrian-ringo
...no longer part of the team
...no further comment at this time
Sounds like a perfect Oakland Grizzlies candidate.
Cool series on Mid-Major Madness starting with this article largely about George Mason's 2006 team that will explain why these runs that shocked the nation really weren't so shocking. Teams to be profiled:
2006 George Mason
2010&2011 Butler
2011 VCU
2013 Wichita State
2018 Loyola
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/11/17555884/cinderella-code-part-one-goliath-versus-david-george-mason-uconn-2006-final-four-ncaa-tournament
I am darn proud that we've shared a conference with two of these teams accounting for three of these runs and were selected to replace a team that made a fourth such run. Hopefully one day we can make a run of our own and write our own story in the annals of mid major greatness.
Um, NKU let UC use their arena for home games last season while UC's arena was being renovated. That's probably the reason for the home-and-home series (that might have even been part of the agreement for UC to use the arena, but wasn't announced until now).
I mean, it's great for NKU, but let's not pretend that UC is doing that out of the goodness of their heart.
Let's all laugh at South Florida's terrible schedule.
https://gousfbulls.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 13, 2018, 08:08:42 PM
Let's all laugh at South Florida's terrible schedule.
https://gousfbulls.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
The more crappy their schedule the better for the rest of us. Solid opponents are a valuable resource and we should welcome other conferences scheduling down.
I don't see your point. Could be I'm overlooking something.
That it's embarrassing for a team with the resources and opportunities afforded to it like USF has to schedule like this. If Valpo did this, I'd be livid. Teams that take their loftier position for granted and don't challenge themselves make me mad because they aren't punished like we are even if we do challenge ourselves. This is in spite of the fact that I'd take our conference against pretty much anybody. And I know what Valpo could do and would do with such opportunities: they'd make the most of them. An MVC team has to be letter perfect against an extremely tough schedule while a team like this could theoretically slide into the field on the strength of their conference affiliation. It's good for us because it means more available games, but it's so unnerving to see. Undeserved privilege at its finest.
I'm with VUGrad1314. That schedule is atrocious. They aren't even testing themselves against quality mids. They are just trying to stack up empty wins to give a "recruiting pitch" to recruits. They know they can't compete in their own conference so they are just trying to make the record look better by playing cupcakes. This schedule reminds me of Georgetown's last season.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 13, 2018, 09:58:03 PM
I'm with VUGrad1314. That schedule is atrocious. They aren't even testing themselves against quality mids. They are just trying to stack up empty wins to give a "recruiting pitch" to recruits. They know they can't compete in their own conference so they are just trying to make the record look better by playing cupcakes. This schedule reminds me of Georgetown's last season.
Yeah, Georgetown's schedule itself was embarrassing (other than their game against Syracuse), but at least USF didn't pull out of the best non-conference tournaments of the year like Georgetown did last year with the PK80. Plus, the terrible non-conference schedule actually did work for Georgetown. They were far more competitive in the Big East than I would have thought, even though their record was 5-13.
I wouldn't call USF a team with "resources and opportunities" though. They're in a better league than the MVC, but it's not anything that they contribute to that. They're an awful program (1 tourney appearance in the last 25 years, with all those years in a multi-bid league), and they don't spend like a high major program considering how spread out the American is.
Article on CUSA and Sun Belt scheduling changes. I think something like this could definitely be of great benefit to a traditionally strong midmajor conference like the MVC. It could help us get a second maybe even a third team into the field.
https://deadspin.com/a-college-basketball-insider-is-uniting-mid-majors-to-b-1826990796
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 16, 2018, 03:32:51 AM
Article on CUSA and Sun Belt scheduling changes. I think something like this could definitely be of great benefit to a traditionally strong midmajor conference like the MVC. It could help us get a second maybe even a third team into the field.
https://deadspin.com/a-college-basketball-insider-is-uniting-mid-majors-to-b-1826990796
I was thinking this situation with CUSA's altered conference schedule over again. If this had been implemented in the MVC last season (17-18) would Valpo have lost/not played some games against Loyola and SIU (maybe Ill State and Drake) and played more winnable games against Evansville, UNI and MSU? Would Valpo have had a better record and possibly not finished last?
Wouldn't have helped us at all. We went 6-4 against seeds 2-6 in the MVC and 0-8 against Loyola and seeds 7-9.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 16, 2018, 12:33:03 PM
Wouldn't have helped us at all. We went 6-4 against seeds 2-6 in the MVC and 0-8 against Loyola and seeds 7-9.
Yes, but you are forgetting the old investment warning. Past performance is not always indicative of Future Results.
Maybe Valpo wins those games if they play some of the lower seeds a third time in conference play.
Quote from: bbtds on July 16, 2018, 12:42:42 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 16, 2018, 12:33:03 PMWouldn't have helped us at all. We went 6-4 against seeds 2-6 in the MVC and 0-8 against Loyola and seeds 7-9.
Yes, but you are forgetting the old investment warning. Past performance is not always indicative of Future Results. Maybe Valpo wins those games if they play some of the lower seeds a third time in conference play.
Right, it's not a guarantee but it's generally a fine indicator. Wins are wins. Losses are losses. Sweeps are sweeps. That maybe argument applies to any game or anything in life. Maybe something happens and eventually it will but the evidence shows that we would have had a better chance against the higher seeds in the conference.
https://twitter.com/jarronctwin/status/1019082717382598656
Part 2 of Matt Craig's Series: The Cinderella Code. I am seriously enjoying reading this and hope others are as well. A major theme of this installment is comparing and contrasting the career paths successful Power 5 Coaches like Bill Self and Roy Williams, and legends of the mid-major level like Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, Jim Larranaga, Gregg Marshall, and Porter Moser. His point? to win at the mid-major level, you need to be a little unconventional.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/17/17578416/the-cinderella-code-part-2-fighting-like-david-shaka-smart-vcu-final-four-2011
Coaches may be barred from Peach Jam in the future.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-ncaa-is-likely-to-make-this-the-last-peach-jam-college-coaches-can-attend-and-that-would-be-a-mistake/
Oakland's schedule is out. Heavy at home in the beginning, heavy on the road at the end. Much more difficult at the end; and that MTE shouldn't do much more for them than pad their metrics, but it's a solid schedule on the whole minus the non-D1. I'm a little impressed that they were able to get so many MAC teams to play them on the Blacktop.
https://goldengrizzlies.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=60
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 18, 2018, 11:56:18 PM
Coaches may be barred from Peach Jam in the future.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-ncaa-is-likely-to-make-this-the-last-peach-jam-college-coaches-can-attend-and-that-would-be-a-mistake/
There would be no point of it if College Coaches couldn't attend.
I think if the NCAA keeps moving down the path it does it will take power out of AAU coaches (a good thing) and make HS coaches more influential. There are some scum HS/Prep coaches but there seems to be fewer them. I don't think it would be the end of the world to end these giant AAU tournaments. If kids are talented, coaches will find them.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 19, 2018, 01:42:22 AM
There would be no point of it if College Coaches couldn't attend.
I think if the NCAA keeps moving down the path it does it will take power out of AAU coaches (a good thing) and make HS coaches more influential. There are some scum HS/Prep coaches but there seems to be fewer them. I don't think it would be the end of the world to end these giant AAU tournaments. If kids are talented, coaches will find them.
The college coaches can't contact kids directly during this time anyway, so their actual attendance isn't as important as their ability to watch the kids play, which I can guarantee the AAU circuit will continue to offer video access even if this does go through. Peach Jam oversold their ticket allotments this year at $50 a pop for spectators, so it's clearly popular enough. The level of basketball on the AAU circuit is undoubtedly higher than it will ever be at a camp or high school setting, especially at these mega tournaments once it gets into bracket play on Saturday.
If the NCAA truly wanted to take the power out of the shoe companies without sacrificing the quality of basketball or opportunities, then instead of regional camps where individual players are invited, what they should do is host their own AAU tournament events in the different regions that the coaches can go to, and then have a National tournament at the very end of the month, and don't differentiate between Nike, Adidas or Under Armour or non-affiliated programs.
For the other side though, there is still the April evaluation period, so guys can still be discovered during that time, but by taking away the July evaluation period and putting guys in a camp setting where they likely haven't played with a lot of the guys they'd get paired with, the basketball won't be as good, and the evaluations will therefore be much harder for coaches to make, in my opinion.
I wish Northwestern had given that honor to us or Loyola or at least UIC.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-northwestern-opener-new-orleans-20180719-story.html
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 20, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
I wish Northwestern had given that honor to us or Loyola or at least UIC.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-northwestern-opener-new-orleans-20180719-story.html
The reasons for not scheduling Loyola probably go beyond basketball. LU would have a shot to beat NU and they don't want to "legitimize" Or even acknowledge the existence of Loyola's basketball program. It's a similar reason why Butler refuses to schedule a series Valpo.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 20, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
I wish Northwestern had given that honor to us or Loyola or at least UIC.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-northwestern-opener-new-orleans-20180719-story.html
The answer is in this paragraph in the story in bold:
NU has opted to open with a mid-major because 1) any opponent is likely to sell out the newly remodeled (cost: $110 million), 7,039-seat gym; 2) the Wildcats want to christen the place with a victory; 3) the team has a bunch of new faces, with only six returnees who played extensively last season; and 4) NU will play 13 high-major teams at home, including 10 from the Big Ten.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 20, 2018, 12:18:46 PM
The reasons for not scheduling Loyola probably go beyond basketball. LU would have a shot to beat NU and they don't want to "legitimize" Or even acknowledge the existence of Loyola's basketball program. It's a similar reason why Butler refuses to schedule a series Valpo.
The reason that these series aren't scheduled is because most seasons, there is nothing to gain for Northwestern or Butler, from either a perception or tournament standpoint. You've said so yourself that you don't want everyone "knighting" Loyola and bowing down to their program because this is the first tourney appearance that they've had in 30+ years. So why should a Big Ten school like Northwestern give Loyola a home game in a 4,500 seat arena when there's no guarantee after next year that they'll be a top 50 program?
Butler doesn't schedule a series with Valpo for the same reason. Is Valpo good enough that they could beat Butler, especially if the game is at Valpo? Absolutely. Would a road win benefit Butler at all come selection Sunday most years? No. Also, Valpo took a buy game against Northwestern last season. Butler is a better basketball program than Northwestern. Valpo wouldn't accept a buy game from Butler. You are free to feel the way you'd like, this is your board, but generally speaking, it can be completely construed as basketball reasons why these things don't happen currently. If major programs are going to take the risk of going on the road for a game, there needs to basically be a guaranteed tangible benefit. Until schools can consistently show that they are going to be a team that gets counted as a quality win come selection Sunday, not just in a single year or years, it's going to be really hard to get teams to give up a home game and agree to come to your arena. Gonzaga went through it, Xavier went through it, Butler went through it, Wichita State went through it.
If Loyola or Valpo or any team proves themselves over a 5+ year stretch, that's usually when you'll start to see a perceivable change in scheduling. Even then, you can't expect every team to do you a solid and play at your gym. Butler hasn't had an actual home game against IU, Purdue or Notre Dame in the last 20ish years. Butler accepted a buy game from IU after the 2 National Title runs. Life moves on. If Valpo becomes a successful program, then you aren't going to need a home game against Butler to prove your mettle. Other teams will step in and be those quality opponents. Once that happens, if Valpo continues to prove itself, then invites to even better non-conference tournaments, neutral site games and home and homes will come.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 20, 2018, 01:09:13 PM
Would a road win benefit Butler at all come selection Sunday most years?
Using the recently introduced Quadrant system, a win at the ARC would have counted as a coveted Quadrant 1 victory 5 of the last 8 seasons (RPI of 75 or better on Selection Sunday). In the other 3 seasons a win at Valpo would have been a respectable Quadrant 2 once and an admittedly useless Quadrant 3 twice (2013-14 and last season).
Fun post including three of the most iconic moments in UNI\MVC tournament history. Hopefully we can do the conference proud like this one day. A bit bummed and surprised that "Th Shot" didn't make it. I guess they couldn't find a spot for it that fit the meter of the song.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/20/17592496/some-mid-major-upsets-set-to-africa-by-toto-theres-nothing-that-a-hundred-men-or-more-could-ever-do
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 20, 2018, 01:09:13 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on July 20, 2018, 12:18:46 PM
The reasons for not scheduling Loyola probably go beyond basketball. LU would have a shot to beat NU and they don't want to "legitimize" Or even acknowledge the existence of Loyola's basketball program. It's a similar reason why Butler refuses to schedule a series Valpo.
The reason that these series aren't scheduled is because most seasons, there is nothing to gain for Northwestern or Butler, from either a perception or tournament standpoint. You've said so yourself that you don't want everyone "knighting" Loyola and bowing down to their program because this is the first tourney appearance that they've had in 30+ years. So why should a Big Ten school like Northwestern give Loyola a home game in a 4,500 seat arena when there's no guarantee after next year that they'll be a top 50 program?
Butler doesn't schedule a series with Valpo for the same reason. Is Valpo good enough that they could beat Butler, especially if the game is at Valpo? Absolutely. Would a road win benefit Butler at all come selection Sunday most years? No. Also, Valpo took a buy game against Northwestern last season. Butler is a better basketball program than Northwestern. Valpo wouldn't accept a buy game from Butler. You are free to feel the way you'd like, this is your board, but generally speaking, it can be completely construed as basketball reasons why these things don't happen currently. If major programs are going to take the risk of going on the road for a game, there needs to basically be a guaranteed tangible benefit. Until schools can consistently show that they are going to be a team that gets counted as a quality win come selection Sunday, not just in a single year or years, it's going to be really hard to get teams to give up a home game and agree to come to your arena. Gonzaga went through it, Xavier went through it, Butler went through it, Wichita State went through it.
If Loyola or Valpo or any team proves themselves over a 5+ year stretch, that's usually when you'll start to see a perceivable change in scheduling. Even then, you can't expect every team to do you a solid and play at your gym. Butler hasn't had an actual home game against IU, Purdue or Notre Dame in the last 20ish years. Butler accepted a buy game from IU after the 2 National Title runs. Life moves on. If Valpo becomes a successful program, then you aren't going to need a home game against Butler to prove your mettle. Other teams will step in and be those quality opponents. Once that happens, if Valpo continues to prove itself, then invites to even better non-conference tournaments, neutral site games and home and homes will come.
Valpo is looking for quality wins too. Not sure a 6th place team qualifies. ;)
Quote from: vu72 on July 20, 2018, 04:42:19 PMValpo is looking for quality wins too. Not sure a 6th place team qualifies. ;)
Agreed. Have they done anything since their one lucky run? We need to be aiming higher.
Quote from: ml2 on July 20, 2018, 02:36:37 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 20, 2018, 01:09:13 PM
Would a road win benefit Butler at all come selection Sunday most years?
Using the recently introduced Quadrant system, a win at the ARC would have counted as a coveted Quadrant 1 victory 5 of the last 8 seasons (RPI of 75 or better on Selection Sunday). In the other 3 seasons a win at Valpo would have been a respectable Quadrant 2 once and an admittedly useless Quadrant 3 twice (2013-14 and last season).
They only introduced the quadrant system this past year, and the RPI isn't the end all, be all metric the committee uses (even though for whatever reason TV analysts still look at it as a major factor). Also, the tournament committee stated that the quadrant system would be a factor this year, but if you look at who got in the tournament vs. who didn't this past year out of the bubble teams, they (and keep in mind half of these members are mid-major reps) didn't care about road wins, NCSOS or Q1 or Q2 record last year. Middle Tennessee's numbers looked like a total no-brainer. 33 RPI. 12th (by RPI) strongest NCSOS. 12-1 on the road. 2-3 vs. Q1 and 3-1 vs. Q2, which was the 2nd best winning % against those 2 quadrants out of the bubble teams (St. Mary's had the best).
Before you cry foul on all mid-majors, you can also look at USC as getting hosed out of a bid, if those metrics truly mattered. USC's RPI was 37. 62nd ranked NCSOS. 6-5 on the road. 9-10 vs. Quadrants 1 and 2, which was only behind Alabama in the Q1 and Q2 record. Guess who got in ahead of them? Texas, whose RPI was 52. 96th ranked NCSOS. 4-7 on the road. 10-18 vs. Quadrants 1 and 2.
So the question then becomes what exactly is the tournament committee using to pick who does or doesn't get in the tournament? I honestly don't know, because there doesn't appear to be a single metric or metric type that they're using for all teams, but I'm sticking to the criteria that if you're not a team in a major conference, it takes consistency in making the the tournament to be a team that major conference teams are going to take the risk in coming to the ARC, because that's when they'll see the benefit in taking the risk.
Quote from: vu72 on July 20, 2018, 04:42:19 PM
Valpo is looking for quality wins too. Not sure a 6th place team qualifies. ;)
Quote from: EddieCabot on July 20, 2018, 08:56:02 PM
Agreed. Have they done anything since their one lucky run? We need to be aiming higher.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/PRw42GTN77g7S/giphy.gif)
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 20, 2018, 10:20:00 PMThey only introduced the quadrant system this past year, and the RPI isn't the end all, be all metric the committee uses (even though for whatever reason TV analysts still look at it as a major factor). Also, the tournament committee stated that the quadrant system would be a factor this year, but if you look at who got in the tournament vs. who didn't this past year out of the bubble teams, they (and keep in mind half of these members are mid-major reps) didn't care about road wins, NCSOS or Q1 or Q2 record last year. Middle Tennessee's numbers looked like a total no-brainer. 33 RPI. 12th (by RPI) strongest NCSOS. 12-1 on the road. 2-3 vs. Q1 and 3-1 vs. Q2, which was the 2nd best winning % against those 2 quadrants out of the bubble teams (St. Mary's had the best).
Before you cry foul on all mid-majors, you can also look at USC as getting hosed out of a bid, if those metrics truly mattered. USC's RPI was 37. 62nd ranked NCSOS. 6-5 on the road. 9-10 vs. Quadrants 1 and 2, which was only behind Alabama in the Q1 and Q2 record. Guess who got in ahead of them? Texas, whose RPI was 52. 96th ranked NCSOS. 4-7 on the road. 10-18 vs. Quadrants 1 and 2.
So the question then becomes what exactly is the tournament committee using to pick who does or doesn't get in the tournament? I honestly don't know, because there doesn't appear to be a single metric or metric type that they're using for all teams, but I'm sticking to the criteria that if you're not a team in a major conference, it takes consistency in making the the tournament to be a team that major conference teams are going to take the risk in coming to the ARC, because that's when they'll see the benefit in taking the risk.
We get that it is a struggle for you to come up with a clear and understandable path forward which could lead to success. I think you just roundabout admitted that we can not get there from here. ;) What I would like to point out is that if the 1994 Butler program was brought forward to 2018 they couldn't get there from here either. :banghead:
Quote from: justducky on July 20, 2018, 11:55:12 PM
We get that it is a struggle for you to come up with a clear and understandable path forward which could lead to success. I think you just roundabout admitted that we can not get there from here. ;) What I would like to point out is that if the 1994 Butler program was brought forward to 2018 they couldn't get there from here either. :banghead:
Unless the committee actually comes up with a criteria that they follow consistently, it's hard for anyone to be able to devise up a clear path to success for any program. I think this is the biggest issue for any team, is that no one actually knows what the target is that they're supposed to hit.
I wouldn't ever say that Valpo can't continue to progress as a program. You're in the MVC now, which is stronger than the Horizon League, even when the league was at its best. It's harder to do now, for sure, but it's not impossible. If Valpo keeps bringing in the right kind of guys via transfers and finds a diamond or two in the rough, like they may have with DFL and Sackey, it's absolutely possible for Valpo to become the program in the MVC, and then who knows what could happen. Where Valpo's at right now is in an infinitely better spot than where Butler was at in 1994. Butler hadn't made the tournament in 32 years at that point, and only had 3 winning seasons in their previous 10 years.
Quote from: justducky on July 20, 2018, 11:55:12 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 20, 2018, 10:20:00 PMThey only introduced the quadrant system this past year, and the RPI isn't the end all, be all metric the committee uses (even though for whatever reason TV analysts still look at it as a major factor). Also, the tournament committee stated that the quadrant system would be a factor this year, but if you look at who got in the tournament vs. who didn't this past year out of the bubble teams, they (and keep in mind half of these members are mid-major reps) didn't care about road wins, NCSOS or Q1 or Q2 record last year. Middle Tennessee's numbers looked like a total no-brainer. 33 RPI. 12th (by RPI) strongest NCSOS. 12-1 on the road. 2-3 vs. Q1 and 3-1 vs. Q2, which was the 2nd best winning % against those 2 quadrants out of the bubble teams (St. Mary's had the best).
Before you cry foul on all mid-majors, you can also look at USC as getting hosed out of a bid, if those metrics truly mattered. USC's RPI was 37. 62nd ranked NCSOS. 6-5 on the road. 9-10 vs. Quadrants 1 and 2, which was only behind Alabama in the Q1 and Q2 record. Guess who got in ahead of them? Texas, whose RPI was 52. 96th ranked NCSOS. 4-7 on the road. 10-18 vs. Quadrants 1 and 2.
So the question then becomes what exactly is the tournament committee using to pick who does or doesn't get in the tournament? I honestly don't know, because there doesn't appear to be a single metric or metric type that they're using for all teams, but I'm sticking to the criteria that if you're not a team in a major conference, it takes consistency in making the the tournament to be a team that major conference teams are going to take the risk in coming to the ARC, because that's when they'll see the benefit in taking the risk.
We get that it is a struggle for you to come up with a clear and understandable path forward which could lead to success. I think you just roundabout admitted that we can not get there from here. ;) What I would like to point out is that if the 1994 Butler program was brought forward to 2018 they couldn't get there from here either. :banghead:
I guess it depends on what the definition of success is. In my book moving from the Mid Con to the Horizon to the Missouri Valley Conference in the past 10 years reflects a highly successful program track record. When Valpo becomes a perennial top tier program within the MVC, it will have solidified that success. With extreme rarity (Butler being one), this is as good as it gets in the Mid Major world, of which there are 250+ programs. If the program never makes another move, it will have accomplished more than most mid major programs could only dream of. Now if we can win a few championships where we're at, I will be content for many years to come.
Quote from: wh on July 21, 2018, 10:47:03 AM
Quote from: justducky on July 20, 2018, 11:55:12 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 20, 2018, 10:20:00 PMThey only introduced the quadrant system this past year, and the RPI isn't the end all, be all metric the committee uses (even though for whatever reason TV analysts still look at it as a major factor). Also, the tournament committee stated that the quadrant system would be a factor this year, but if you look at who got in the tournament vs. who didn't this past year out of the bubble teams, they (and keep in mind half of these members are mid-major reps) didn't care about road wins, NCSOS or Q1 or Q2 record last year. Middle Tennessee's numbers looked like a total no-brainer. 33 RPI. 12th (by RPI) strongest NCSOS. 12-1 on the road. 2-3 vs. Q1 and 3-1 vs. Q2, which was the 2nd best winning % against those 2 quadrants out of the bubble teams (St. Mary's had the best).
Before you cry foul on all mid-majors, you can also look at USC as getting hosed out of a bid, if those metrics truly mattered. USC's RPI was 37. 62nd ranked NCSOS. 6-5 on the road. 9-10 vs. Quadrants 1 and 2, which was only behind Alabama in the Q1 and Q2 record. Guess who got in ahead of them? Texas, whose RPI was 52. 96th ranked NCSOS. 4-7 on the road. 10-18 vs. Quadrants 1 and 2.
So the question then becomes what exactly is the tournament committee using to pick who does or doesn't get in the tournament? I honestly don't know, because there doesn't appear to be a single metric or metric type that they're using for all teams, but I'm sticking to the criteria that if you're not a team in a major conference, it takes consistency in making the the tournament to be a team that major conference teams are going to take the risk in coming to the ARC, because that's when they'll see the benefit in taking the risk.
We get that it is a struggle for you to come up with a clear and understandable path forward which could lead to success. I think you just roundabout admitted that we can not get there from here. ;) What I would like to point out is that if the 1994 Butler program was brought forward to 2018 they couldn't get there from here either. :banghead:
I guess it depends on what the definition of success is. In my book moving from the Mid Con to the Horizon to the Missouri Valley Conference in the past 10 years reflects a highly successful program track record. When Valpo becomes a perennial top tier program within the MVC, it will have solidified that success. With extreme rarity (Butler being one), this is as good as it gets in the Mid Major world, of which there are 250+ programs. If the program never makes another move, it will have accomplished more than most mid major programs could only dream of. Now if we can win a few championships where we're at, I will be content for many years to come.
Well put WH. Some of us (including myself) worries about being the small fish in the big pond. Put in a timeline perspective these are solid progressions.
Maybe the new expectation is occasional titles, littered with prolific new rivalries at the pinnacle of the mid major conferences.
Quote from: wh on July 21, 2018, 10:47:03 AMI guess it depends on what the definition of success is. In my book moving from the Mid Con to the Horizon to the Missouri Valley Conference in the past 10 years reflects a highly successful program track record. When Valpo becomes a perennial top tier program within the MVC, it will have solidified that success. With extreme rarity (Butler being one), this is as good as it gets in the Mid Major world, of which there are 250+ programs. If the program never makes another move, it will have accomplished more than most mid major programs could only dream of. Now if we can win a few championships where we're at, I will be content for many years to come.
While I agree with everything you said, let me take it a step forward to illustrate the frustration that you and I and everybody on this board shares.
By my thinking the MVC in 18-19 could and maybe should have 4 members in the top 85 with several others not far behind. What are the early odds of the Valley generating an at-large candidate ??? I would say 25% or less.
Let's jump to the 19-20 season when we will have a bench full of talent and experience with at-large aspirations. What are our chances? Can anybody in the MVC get an at-large in either year? The odds are against us.
Quote from: justducky on July 22, 2018, 10:14:21 AM
Quote from: wh on July 21, 2018, 10:47:03 AMI guess it depends on what the definition of success is. In my book moving from the Mid Con to the Horizon to the Missouri Valley Conference in the past 10 years reflects a highly successful program track record. When Valpo becomes a perennial top tier program within the MVC, it will have solidified that success. With extreme rarity (Butler being one), this is as good as it gets in the Mid Major world, of which there are 250+ programs. If the program never makes another move, it will have accomplished more than most mid major programs could only dream of. Now if we can win a few championships where we're at, I will be content for many years to come.
While I agree with everything you said, let me take it a step forward to illustrate the frustration that you and I and everybody on this board shares.
By my thinking the MVC in 18-19 could and maybe should have 4 members in the top 85 with several others not far behind. What are the early odds of the Valley generating an at-large candidate ??? I would say 25% or less.
Let's jump to the 19-20 season when we will have a bench full of talent and experience with at-large aspirations. What are our chances? Can anybody in the MVC get an at-large in either year? The odds are against us.
And pray tell, what would those chances have been in the Horizon? Here are the big reasons we didn't have an at-large candidate last year or realize the goal of 4 in the top 85:
1. Loyola (and others) underscheduled
2. Illinois State was inconsistent
3. UNI crapped the bed in conference play
4. Elgin and the MVC University presidents missed the opportunity to add another strong top 85 caliber team in Murray State and embrace a 11\20 format that would have boosted everyone's schedule\RPI
5. The MVC is a tough conference from top to bottom. The teams beat on\cannibalize each other.
Loyola is working on issue #1 and doing a good job
Illinois State and UNI should be better equipped at handling issues 2 and 3 this year
If the MVC is successful in resolving issues 1-3 then issues 4-5 won't matter as much AND it has enjoyed tournament success in the post-Wichita State era, which gives the conference respect and credibility and should help come Selection Sunday.
I think two bids is very possible if Loyola and Illinois State take care of business, and if programs like UNI and our Crusaders can show well against tougher slates to provide support along with SIU and Bradley, and other teams do well in the nonconference while the in-conference cannibalization quiets down some allowing our best teams to rise to the top. We might even have some talk of three bids if we get a vintage performance from UNI or things come together for Valpo early and\or things get crazy in the conference tournament. If the A10 can do it so can the MVC.
Quote from: justducky on July 22, 2018, 10:14:21 AM
Quote from: wh on July 21, 2018, 10:47:03 AMI guess it depends on what the definition of success is. In my book moving from the Mid Con to the Horizon to the Missouri Valley Conference in the past 10 years reflects a highly successful program track record. When Valpo becomes a perennial top tier program within the MVC, it will have solidified that success. With extreme rarity (Butler being one), this is as good as it gets in the Mid Major world, of which there are 250+ programs. If the program never makes another move, it will have accomplished more than most mid major programs could only dream of. Now if we can win a few championships where we're at, I will be content for many years to come.
While I agree with everything you said, let me take it a step forward to illustrate the frustration that you and I and everybody on this board shares.
By my thinking the MVC in 18-19 could and maybe should have 4 members in the top 85 with several others not far behind. What are the early odds of the Valley generating an at-large candidate ??? I would say 25% or less.
Let's jump to the 19-20 season when we will have a bench full of talent and experience with at-large aspirations. What are our chances? Can anybody in the MVC get an at-large in either year? The odds are against us.
A major change to the at-large selection metric will soon be announced by the NCAA. There is hope out there that the new metric will be more favorable to the Mid Major world. Time will tell.
MVC hopes new 'metric' leads to multiple NCAA bids
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/mvc-hopes-new-metric-leads-to-multiple-ncaa-bids/article_dc5f6c43-ccec-5051-b6f0-159d98df87d8.amp.html
Quote from: wh on July 22, 2018, 02:41:27 PM
A major change to the at-large selection metric will soon be announced by the NCAA. There is hope out there that the new metric will be more favorable to the Mid Major world. Time will tell.
MVC hopes new 'metric' leads to multiple NCAA bids
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/mvc-hopes-new-metric-leads-to-multiple-ncaa-bids/article_dc5f6c43-ccec-5051-b6f0-159d98df87d8.amp.html
Even if it does appear to favor mid-majors, it all depends if the committee actually uses it. They didn't exactly follow their quadrant metrics last year when it came down to the bubble teams.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 22, 2018, 07:33:59 PM
Quote from: wh on July 22, 2018, 02:41:27 PM
A major change to the at-large selection metric will soon be announced by the NCAA. There is hope out there that the new metric will be more favorable to the Mid Major world. Time will tell.
MVC hopes new 'metric' leads to multiple NCAA bids
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/mvc-hopes-new-metric-leads-to-multiple-ncaa-bids/article_dc5f6c43-ccec-5051-b6f0-159d98df87d8.amp.html
Even if it does appear to favor mid-majors, it all depends if the committee actually uses it. They didn't exactly follow their quadrant metrics last year when it came down to the bubble teams.
This. They're adding a metric to replace a metric they didn't even use. They don't need to add metrics to help the mid majors. Quality mid majors already have decent RPI, a good quadrant winning %, etc. The addition of these metrics only make it easier to justify adding head-scratchers to the tournament, because they might stand out in one of the 5 criteria.
Yeah I'm pretty skeptical this will improve mid-majors fortunes.
Not South Florida bad but a pretty weak effort here.
https://twitter.com/Pitt_MBB/status/1021399470007889921
Part III is here: In it, Craig discusses the need for "catalyst players" guys that just make things happen and make teammates better. They are leaders and may even have the ability to be stars but don't necessarily relish the role\attention. The more of these players you have, the better. Balanced attacks are harder to gameplan against on short notice, which aids these teams come tournament time. Note the difference in Florida's experience playing Jimmer Fredette's BYU team vs. Butler. Heavy focus on Butler--especially their second run to the Finals in 2011 keyed by Matt Howard. Also of note is Jim Larranaga's considerable influence on "The Butler Way" despite having no affiliation with Butler.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/24/17605218/the-cinderella-code-part-3-the-unassuming-shepherd-boy-matt-howard-butler-brad-stevens-hayward
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 24, 2018, 10:26:02 AM
Part III is here: In it, Craig discusses the need for "catalyst players" guys that just make things happen and make teammates better. They are leaders and may even have the ability to be stars but don't necessarily relish the role\attention. The more of these players you have, the better. Balanced attacks are harder to gameplan against on short notice, which aids these teams come tournament time. Note the difference in Florida's experience playing Jimmer Fredette's BYU team vs. Butler. Heavy focus on Butler--especially their second run to the Finals in 2011 keyed by Matt Howard. Also of note is Jim Larranaga's considerable influence on "The Butler Way" despite having no affiliation with Butler.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/24/17605218/the-cinderella-code-part-3-the-unassuming-shepherd-boy-matt-howard-butler-brad-stevens-hayward
I'm not going to say that the writer is wrong, but every great team, whether they're a power program or a mid-major program has these guys, so it's not a "Cinderella Code". Howard was a top 100 recruit coming out of high school, scored nearly 2,000 points in his career and sits in the top 10 in career statistics of points (5th), rebounds (4th) and blocks (3rd). If you wanted a real "no stats all-stars" from the 2010 and 2011 Butler teams, Ron Nored would have qualified better than Howard. Villanova was filled with those kinds of players last year. Also, Butler didn't have a "balanced" attack during their second run. They had 2 guys who averaged double figures during the tournament. BYU had 3. Florida had the Butler game well in hand too until late where Butler stormed back late to tie it and then take it in overtime when Shelvin Mack took over.
Jim Larranaga had slightly more influence on the Butler Way as you or I did. Literally look at Dick Bennett's (he was also at this meeting) 5 core values that he taught his teams and tell me you don't see a direct influence on the Butler Way.
Bennett's Core Values:
1. Humility
2. Passion
3. Unity
4. Servant Attitude
5. Thankfulness
The Butler Way's 5 Pillars
1. Humility
2. Passion
3. Unity
4. Servant Attitude
5. Thankfulness
The difference was that Collier took the time to write this down into a mission statement known as the Butler Way: The Butler Way demands commitment, denies selfishness and accepts reality, yet seeks constant improvement while promoting the good of the team above self.
Honestly the article is pretty disappointing. Butler's runs weren't like George Mason's or Loyola's. Those truly were teams that didn't have NBA level talent, but played together so well that fact didn't matter. Butler, Wichita State and Gonzaga all had multiple NBA players on their Final 4 teams. Butler had an NBA coach. Their run also can't be replicated today because they were allowed to play defense in a way that isn't allowed anymore. That's what makes Loyola's run even more special.
I'm not sure I agree that Loyola doesn't have NBA talent. If Custer turns in another strong year and Loyola does well, I can see him getting plenty of NBA looks. Same with Krutwig if he keeps developing; though it's harder to see with him because the NBA doesn't like low-post scoring Centers anymore.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 24, 2018, 01:15:00 PM
I'm not sure I agree that Loyola doesn't have NBA talent. If Custer turns in another strong year and Loyola does well, I can see him getting plenty of NBA looks. Same with Krutwig if he keeps developing; though it's harder to see with him because the NBA doesn't like low-post scoring Centers anymore.
Custer and Krutwig are great college players, but neither have the athleticism that they would need to play in the NBA, in my opinion. I would take both of them on my team in a heartbeat though. Custer's issue along with his athleticism is he turns the ball over too much (Loyola was 227th in the nation in turnover rate).
I could see Custer getting a cup of coffee NBA career and getting a two-way contract from someone. Krutwig isn't a NBA player, imo.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1021835835480715264
Another thing working against Custer is his height and that he doesn't have the speed/athleticism to makeup for it.
He's listed as 6'1" but when you see him up close you know that isn't accurate.
Krutwig's basically Luke Harangody. Will likely have the same type of dominant college career and non existent NBA career. Though having at least 6 more career games being 'guarded' by Smits and J will really pump up his numbers.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on July 24, 2018, 05:36:19 PM
Krutwig's basically Luke Harangody. Will likely have the same type of dominant college career and non existent NBA career. Though having at least 6 more career games being 'guarded' by Smits and J will really pump up his numbers.
His footwork for a guy that size is elite. He took Smits to town that game. Jay actually held his own in the 2nd game, but fouled out which ended up sealing the game for Loyola on the road. Krutwig was pretty crafty getting his shot off both 7 footers. Smits really needs to improve his defense to be trusted to stay on the court late into games. If he could just become a average defender/rebounder he could probably put up some pretty sizable offensive stats.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 24, 2018, 03:54:03 PM
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1021835835480715264
Solid move by the BE and B12 to counter the larger leagues going to 20 game schedules.
I also like it because with the Gavitt Games and the BE-B12 challenge, the BE should absolutely stay at 10 teams. For Valpo, that means that SLU and Dayton are in play, should they ever get tired of the A-10.
Quote from: vu72 on July 20, 2018, 04:42:19 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 20, 2018, 01:09:13 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on July 20, 2018, 12:18:46 PM
The reasons for not scheduling Loyola probably go beyond basketball. LU would have a shot to beat NU and they don't want to "legitimize" Or even acknowledge the existence of Loyola's basketball program. It's a similar reason why Butler refuses to schedule a series Valpo.
The reason that these series aren't scheduled is because most seasons, there is nothing to gain for Northwestern or Butler, from either a perception or tournament standpoint. You've said so yourself that you don't want everyone "knighting" Loyola and bowing down to their program because this is the first tourney appearance that they've had in 30+ years. So why should a Big Ten school like Northwestern give Loyola a home game in a 4,500 seat arena when there's no guarantee after next year that they'll be a top 50 program?
Butler doesn't schedule a series with Valpo for the same reason. Is Valpo good enough that they could beat Butler, especially if the game is at Valpo? Absolutely. Would a road win benefit Butler at all come selection Sunday most years? No. Also, Valpo took a buy game against Northwestern last season. Butler is a better basketball program than Northwestern. Valpo wouldn't accept a buy game from Butler. You are free to feel the way you'd like, this is your board, but generally speaking, it can be completely construed as basketball reasons why these things don't happen currently. If major programs are going to take the risk of going on the road for a game, there needs to basically be a guaranteed tangible benefit. Until schools can consistently show that they are going to be a team that gets counted as a quality win come selection Sunday, not just in a single year or years, it's going to be really hard to get teams to give up a home game and agree to come to your arena. Gonzaga went through it, Xavier went through it, Butler went through it, Wichita State went through it.
If Loyola or Valpo or any team proves themselves over a 5+ year stretch, that's usually when you'll start to see a perceivable change in scheduling. Even then, you can't expect every team to do you a solid and play at your gym. Butler hasn't had an actual home game against IU, Purdue or Notre Dame in the last 20ish years. Butler accepted a buy game from IU after the 2 National Title runs. Life moves on. If Valpo becomes a successful program, then you aren't going to need a home game against Butler to prove your mettle. Other teams will step in and be those quality opponents. Once that happens, if Valpo continues to prove itself, then invites to even better non-conference tournaments, neutral site games and home and homes will come.
Valpo is looking for quality wins too. Not sure a 6th place team qualifies. ;)
Butler is releasing their Non-Con schedule tomorrow and I've been told it doesn't include Valpo. So, you don't have to play a 6th place team and Butler doesn't have to play one that finished DFL. That's a win/win for all of us.
Quote from: zvillehaze on July 24, 2018, 08:45:35 PM
Quote from: vu72 on July 20, 2018, 04:42:19 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 20, 2018, 01:09:13 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on July 20, 2018, 12:18:46 PM
The reasons for not scheduling Loyola probably go beyond basketball. LU would have a shot to beat NU and they don't want to "legitimize" Or even acknowledge the existence of Loyola's basketball program. It's a similar reason why Butler refuses to schedule a series Valpo.
The reason that these series aren't scheduled is because most seasons, there is nothing to gain for Northwestern or Butler, from either a perception or tournament standpoint. You've said so yourself that you don't want everyone "knighting" Loyola and bowing down to their program because this is the first tourney appearance that they've had in 30+ years. So why should a Big Ten school like Northwestern give Loyola a home game in a 4,500 seat arena when there's no guarantee after next year that they'll be a top 50 program?
Butler doesn't schedule a series with Valpo for the same reason. Is Valpo good enough that they could beat Butler, especially if the game is at Valpo? Absolutely. Would a road win benefit Butler at all come selection Sunday most years? No. Also, Valpo took a buy game against Northwestern last season. Butler is a better basketball program than Northwestern. Valpo wouldn't accept a buy game from Butler. You are free to feel the way you'd like, this is your board, but generally speaking, it can be completely construed as basketball reasons why these things don't happen currently. If major programs are going to take the risk of going on the road for a game, there needs to basically be a guaranteed tangible benefit. Until schools can consistently show that they are going to be a team that gets counted as a quality win come selection Sunday, not just in a single year or years, it's going to be really hard to get teams to give up a home game and agree to come to your arena. Gonzaga went through it, Xavier went through it, Butler went through it, Wichita State went through it.
If Loyola or Valpo or any team proves themselves over a 5+ year stretch, that's usually when you'll start to see a perceivable change in scheduling. Even then, you can't expect every team to do you a solid and play at your gym. Butler hasn't had an actual home game against IU, Purdue or Notre Dame in the last 20ish years. Butler accepted a buy game from IU after the 2 National Title runs. Life moves on. If Valpo becomes a successful program, then you aren't going to need a home game against Butler to prove your mettle. Other teams will step in and be those quality opponents. Once that happens, if Valpo continues to prove itself, then invites to even better non-conference tournaments, neutral site games and home and homes will come.
Valpo is looking for quality wins too. Not sure a 6th place team qualifies. ;)
Butler is releasing their Non-Con schedule tomorrow and I've been told it doesn't include Valpo. So, you don't have to play a 6th place team and Butler doesn't have to play one that finished DFL. That's a win/win for all of us.
Fair enough 'haze! Well played! We shall compare finishes after the coming season! ;)
Quote from: zvillehaze on July 24, 2018, 08:40:11 PMQuote from: IrishDawg on July 24, 2018, 03:54:03 PMhttps://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1021835835480715264
Solid move by the BE and B12 to counter the larger leagues going to 20 game schedules. I also like it because with the Gavitt Games and the BE-B12 challenge, the BE should absolutely stay at 10 teams. For Valpo, that means that SLU and Dayton are in play, should they ever get tired of the A-10.
Isn't there talk of the Gavitt Games going away fairly soon?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 25, 2018, 05:23:26 AM
Quote from: zvillehaze on July 24, 2018, 08:40:11 PMQuote from: IrishDawg on July 24, 2018, 03:54:03 PMhttps://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1021835835480715264
Solid move by the BE and B12 to counter the larger leagues going to 20 game schedules. I also like it because with the Gavitt Games and the BE-B12 challenge, the BE should absolutely stay at 10 teams. For Valpo, that means that SLU and Dayton are in play, should they ever get tired of the A-10.
Isn't there talk of the Gavitt Games going away fairly soon?
The deal ends in the 2022-23 season, so depending on the definition that could be "fairly soon". With the Big Ten going to 20 games, the Gavitt Games could get the axe, but only about half of the Big Ten teams participate in it each year, so unlike the ACC challenge, they're only going to be on the road once every 3 or 4 years. They might renew it, they might not, but this makes a lot of sense for both the Big East and the Big 12 with both leagues at 10 teams and both leagues having games broadcast on Fox.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 25, 2018, 07:00:01 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 25, 2018, 05:23:26 AMQuote from: zvillehaze on July 24, 2018, 08:40:11 PMQuote from: IrishDawg on July 24, 2018, 03:54:03 PMhttps://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1021835835480715264
Solid move by the BE and B12 to counter the larger leagues going to 20 game schedules. I also like it because with the Gavitt Games and the BE-B12 challenge, the BE should absolutely stay at 10 teams. For Valpo, that means that SLU and Dayton are in play, should they ever get tired of the A-10.
Isn't there talk of the Gavitt Games going away fairly soon?
The deal ends in the 2022-23 season, so depending on the definition that could be "fairly soon". With the Big Ten going to 20 games, the Gavitt Games could get the axe, but only about half of the Big Ten teams participate in it each year, so unlike the ACC challenge, they're only going to be on the road once every 3 or 4 years. They might renew it, they might not, but this makes a lot of sense for both the Big East and the Big 12 with both leagues at 10 teams and both leagues having games broadcast on Fox.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that this was in some way brokered by or advocated for by the network. That said, it's a good deal for everyone involved.
Stephen F. Austin can get this, but Valpo (or any other MVC school) couldn't?
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1022111729298427904
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 25, 2018, 08:46:44 AM
Stephen F. Austin can get this, but Valpo (or any other MVC school) couldn't?
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1022111729298427904
Could have to do with facilities and capacity. From "Stadium Reviews":
William R. Johnson Coliseum is deceptively cavernous – the court descends downward from the main entrance, and this effect offers great acoustics for the game. It amplifies the home crowd noise exponentially, and while it is hard to fill the over 7,000 seats for games that are not against conference rivals or big-name programs, the set up greatly enhances the atmosphere.
Everywhere you look, from the multitude of banners that hang from the rafters touting the numerous successes the program has had, to the timelines of the men's and women's basketball programs near the main entrance, you get the feeling that you are entering a basketball cathedral in Nacogdoches.
We can have that too... I know we can...
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1024297684444884994
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1024304875625164801
The NCAA listened after college basketball coaches complained about changing recruiting rules
Here's what big changes are scheduled to come for college basketball recruiting
Matt Norlander
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-ncaa-listened-after-college-basketball-coaches-complained-about-changing-recruiting-rules/
Part 4 of Cinderella Code is out. Heavy focus on Wichita State. In this installment, Craig discusses the notion of FBS football as a money pit outside the P5, and that the lack of football is a desirable disadvantage that can help fuel basketball success. His formula? Proximity to major city+Institutional commitment-football= potential for success. This might prove instructive in membership decisions the MVC makes in the future. Also it looks to me like Valpo has many of these ingredients already in place.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/7/ ... final-four
Kudos to Bryce for stepping up the scheduling with his highly-touted recruiting class. Look at that Vandy MTE. Why even bother at that point?
https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2017/11/27/16671208/2018-19-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving
I'm jealous of UWM. They travel to Belfast, Northern Ireland for their gig. The entire field is mid major.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 02, 2018, 12:46:23 PM
Kudos to Bryce for stepping up the scheduling with his highly-touted recruiting class. Look at that Vandy MTE. Why even bother at that point?
https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2017/11/27/16671208/2018-19-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving
Keep in mind that he has a flock of freaking freshmen. He needs to ease them into the world of P5 basketball.
That right there is why we can't get the games we so desperately need. Because too many P5 coaches think like that. "Our conference schedule is really hard let's eat 12 cupcakes before conference play and fall butt backwards into a tournament bid because our gaudy record covers up a subpar conference mark." The sad thing is playing better mids would actually help most P5 teams. If you're good enough to win a bunch of P5 games you're good enough to beat most every mid anyway and if you aren't good enough to beat most good mids then you probably aren't good enough for the tournament anyway.
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 02, 2018, 07:33:15 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 02, 2018, 12:46:23 PM
Kudos to Bryce for stepping up the scheduling with his highly-touted recruiting class. Look at that Vandy MTE. Why even bother at that point?
https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2017/11/27/16671208/2018-19-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving
Keep in mind that he has a flock of freaking freshmen. He needs to ease them into the world of P5 basketball.
Jeez, I forgot to add this: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 02, 2018, 08:54:30 PM
That right there is why we can't get the games we so desperately need. Because too many P5 coaches think like that. "Our conference schedule is really hard let's eat 12 cupcakes before conference play and fall butt backwards into a tournament bid because our gaudy record covers up a subpar conference mark." The sad thing is playing better mids would actually help most P5 teams. If you're good enough to win a bunch of P5 games you're good enough to beat most every mid anyway and if you aren't good enough to beat most good mids then you probably aren't good enough for the tournament anyway.
But the system is not rigged for that. :(
This schedule is exactly what is wrong with the P5 and present scheduling practices. Not a single true road game, all the nonconference home games except Arkansas suck- and that's a challenge game not a series-- and there's just enough of a P5 presence so that it's not a total farce. They'll still make the tournament though because they'll probably beat Arkansas Memphis and possibly USC and do a decent enough job in the Big 12 but talk about being carried by your conference. I hope Missouri State kicks major butt in that tournament.
https://texastech.com/news/2018/8/3/mens-basketball-releases-nonconference-home-slate.aspx
Good read on Dayton and Middle Tennessee State.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/8/5/17613426/a10-cusa-dayton-flyers-middle-tennessee-blue-raiders-battle-4-atlantis-college-basketball-tournament
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 02, 2018, 07:29:12 PMI'm jealous of UWM. They travel to Belfast, Northern Ireland for their gig. The entire field is mid major.
Why are you jealous? I know it's a solid field with Buffalo San Francisco and SFA but I bet they would trade with us in a heartbeat to potentially get WKU\WVU\ one of WF UCF or St Joe's. Is it because the tournament is in Northern Ireland?
Big props to Kermit Davis for doing his old program a solid.
https://goblueraiders.com/news/2018/8/6/mens-basketball-mens-hoops-to-host-ole-miss-at-bridgestone-arena.aspx
As long as they aren't afraid to schedule mids why don't we try to get ourselves a game or better still a series with them?
No true road games for Northwestern either and a WEAK slate. Something needs to be done about this.
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/1026521925181419520
UMASS is building themselves a very solid roster. I think they'll do well in the A10 this year. Perhaps they're building up to get attention from the AAC in the coming years?
https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels/status/1026552310980272129
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 04:53:11 PM
Big props to Kermit Davis for doing his old program a solid.
https://goblueraiders.com/news/2018/8/6/mens-basketball-mens-hoops-to-host-ole-miss-at-bridgestone-arena.aspx
As long as they aren't afraid to schedule mids why don't we try to get ourselves a game or better still a series with them?
Bridgestone is where the SEC tournament takes place this year. So while it's good that he's giving MTSU a game, he's also doing it to get his team experience for the conference tournament.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 06, 2018, 07:17:41 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 04:53:11 PM
Big props to Kermit Davis for doing his old program a solid.
https://goblueraiders.com/news/2018/8/6/mens-basketball-mens-hoops-to-host-ole-miss-at-bridgestone-arena.aspx
As long as they aren't afraid to schedule mids why don't we try to get ourselves a game or better still a series with them?
Bridgestone is where the SEC tournament takes place this year. So while it's good that he's giving MTSU a game, he's also doing it to get his team experience for the conference tournament.
That's a good point. I wonder if Valpo has explored the possibility of playing SLU in a non-con game at the Scottrade Center. Would give SLU a great non-con opponent at a semi-home location and allow Valpo a game at their tourney location. Win-win. Probably too late for this season, but something they should keep in mind, IMO.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 06, 2018, 09:14:50 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 06, 2018, 07:17:41 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 04:53:11 PM
Big props to Kermit Davis for doing his old program a solid.
https://goblueraiders.com/news/2018/8/6/mens-basketball-mens-hoops-to-host-ole-miss-at-bridgestone-arena.aspx
As long as they aren't afraid to schedule mids why don't we try to get ourselves a game or better still a series with them?
Bridgestone is where the SEC tournament takes place this year. So while it's good that he's giving MTSU a game, he's also doing it to get his team experience for the conference tournament.
That's a good point. I wonder if Valpo has explored the possibility of playing SLU in a non-con game at the Scottrade Center. Would give SLU a great non-con opponent at a semi-home location and allow Valpo a game at their tourney location. Win-win. Probably too late for this season, but something they should keep in mind, IMO.
I think most Valley teams would jump at that, Eddie. Any top-half A-10 opponent is a good opponent. Thinking even bigger, I would also approach Missouri with a similar offer though I bet they would prefer to just take the buy game in Columbia. The year to do this with Mizzou may have been last year when the SEC Tournament was also at Scottrade, so playing on that court would have offered much clearer benefit to both sides.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 02, 2018, 07:29:12 PMI'm jealous of UWM. They travel to Belfast, Northern Ireland for their gig. The entire field is mid major.
Why are you jealous? I know it's a solid field with Buffalo San Francisco and SFA but I bet they would trade with us in a heartbeat to potentially get WKU\WVU\ one of WF UCF or St Joe's. Is it because the tournament is in Northern Ireland?
Simple. My life and values revolve around more than RPi and scheduling matchups. These young men get a chance to travel —— to Northern Ireland! And they get a chance to still compete against US mid-major teams, not a few Irish basketball clubs. I only hope their coach allows them to absorb this wonderful opportunity (along with playing some hoops).
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 06, 2018, 10:05:46 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 02, 2018, 07:29:12 PMI'm jealous of UWM. They travel to Belfast, Northern Ireland for their gig. The entire field is mid major.
Why are you jealous? I know it's a solid field with Buffalo San Francisco and SFA but I bet they would trade with us in a heartbeat to potentially get WKU\WVU\ one of WF UCF or St Joe's. Is it because the tournament is in Northern Ireland?
Simple. My life and values revolve around more than RPi and scheduling matchups. These young men get a chance to travel —— to Northern Ireland! And they get a chance to still compete against US mid-major teams, not a few Irish basketball clubs. I only hope their coach allows them to absorb this wonderful opportunity (along with playing some hoops).
I seriously think this could be an audition for the MVC for Milwaukee. If they can beat the likes of this Buffalo team or SFA it could demonstrate that they are ready to add value to the MVC. I think Wright State's trip to Cancun could be as well. While I think Murray State is the clear #1 choice I'm beginning to think that markets and recruiting territory are very important factors to the MVC presidents.
Mizzou already plays Illinois every year at Scottrade.
UWM will be really bad next year. Boat sailed on them.
You're right. I forgot about that massive postseason exodus they had. Maybe a bit too much digging for expansion candidates which led to a bit too rosy a view of their immediate fortunes.
Part V focuses on the psychology of cinderella runs why the underdog is able to perform so well in the clutch. Heavy focus on Loyola. Give it a read.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/8/7/17660530/the-cinderella-code-part-5-charging-the-giant-loyola-final-four-donte-ingram-clayton-custer
Mike Davis putting together an impressive staff in a short amount of time. They landed Tracy Dildy. I was hoping Tracy might find his way on our staff when we had an opening. I wonder if he was in play for our Assistant openings at the time. I've heard great things about Coach Holloway from people outside of VU circles and Coach Townsend has a strong reputation as well.
https://twitter.com/TonyPaul1984/status/1026590573535420416
New NCAA rules. Thoughts?
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24320401/ncaa-announces-new-college-basketball-policy-including-agents-players-longer-postseason-bans
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 08, 2018, 02:58:45 PM
New NCAA rules. Thoughts?
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/24320401/ncaa-announces-new-college-basketball-policy-including-agents-players-longer-postseason-bans
I like the intent of the rule to allow kids who don't get drafted to be able to go back to school but there will be issues with Coaches not wanting to hold scholarships for kids that don't get drafted. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Also allowing kids to hire agents while in school could just be muddying the water. More Coaches may up in bed with agents to land certain recruits.
No matter what they do, College Basketball (particularly at the top levels) will be a shady operation.
This is a pretty good nonconference schedule
http://gobonnies.sbu.edu/sports/m-baskbl/2018-19/releases/20180807ftksg7
So is this one:
https://gocrimson.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/schedule
Mizzou also scheduled very well for a P5 team.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 06, 2018, 09:14:50 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 06, 2018, 07:17:41 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 04:53:11 PM
Big props to Kermit Davis for doing his old program a solid.
https://goblueraiders.com/news/2018/8/6/mens-basketball-mens-hoops-to-host-ole-miss-at-bridgestone-arena.aspx
As long as they aren't afraid to schedule mids why don't we try to get ourselves a game or better still a series with them?
Bridgestone is where the SEC tournament takes place this year. So while it's good that he's giving MTSU a game, he's also doing it to get his team experience for the conference tournament.
That's a good point. I wonder if Valpo has explored the possibility of playing SLU in a non-con game at the Scottrade Center. Would give SLU a great non-con opponent at a semi-home location and allow Valpo a game at their tourney location. Win-win. Probably too late for this season, but something they should keep in mind, IMO.
Why would SLU rent out the former Scottrade Center, now named Enterprise Center (after the car rental company headquartered in St Louis) when they have their own fancy arena just a couple miles away just west of downtown St Louis? Also they wouldn't be drawing much of a crowd against Valpo so the Enterprise Center would be mostly empty which would be a money losing proposition for the Billikens.
Quote from: historyman on August 08, 2018, 05:34:30 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 06, 2018, 09:14:50 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 06, 2018, 07:17:41 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 06, 2018, 04:53:11 PM
Big props to Kermit Davis for doing his old program a solid.
https://goblueraiders.com/news/2018/8/6/mens-basketball-mens-hoops-to-host-ole-miss-at-bridgestone-arena.aspx
As long as they aren't afraid to schedule mids why don't we try to get ourselves a game or better still a series with them?
Bridgestone is where the SEC tournament takes place this year. So while it's good that he's giving MTSU a game, he's also doing it to get his team experience for the conference tournament.
That's a good point. I wonder if Valpo has explored the possibility of playing SLU in a non-con game at the Scottrade Center. Would give SLU a great non-con opponent at a semi-home location and allow Valpo a game at their tourney location. Win-win. Probably too late for this season, but something they should keep in mind, IMO.
Why would SLU rent out the former Scottrade Center, now named Enterprise Center (after the car rental company headquartered in St Louis) when they have their own fancy arena just a couple miles away just west of downtown St Louis? Also they wouldn't be drawing much of a crowd against Valpo so the Enterprise Center would be mostly empty which would be a money losing proposition for the Billikens.
You took Eddie seriously when the rest of us didn't. So you lose :whiteflag: and should make a note to take everything he might say with a grain of salt.
Chalk up another victim for the Eddie approach! :bowdown:
Dildy will do damage with Davis at Detroit.
Quote from: may know on August 08, 2018, 09:06:52 PM
Dildy will do damage with Davis at Detroit.
I'm surprised he didn't land with a bigger program as a chicagoland primary recruiter for someone. If he has success recruiting Chicago at MD (he probably will), he'll get picked off by high major staff quickly.
This is big for UDM and for the immediate future of the Horizon League. I'm not sure if they'll get good enough to attract the interest of the MVC but it will help them recover some of their former glory. They were pretty good for awhile back in the MCC days as I understand.
Wake Forest assistant basketball coach charged with assault in deadly NYC attack
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/09/wake-forest-assistant-basketball-coach-charged-with-assault-in-deadly-nyc-attack.html
I'm not judging anyone here because the story doesn't provide enough detail about what the deceased may have said or done that led to a punch being thrown, but it does go to show how just 1 punch thrown in a moment of anger can change forever the lives of 2 probably good people.
Seems a few folks aren't happy with the new rules:
Here's a HS coach's thoughts:
https://medium.com/@jessemcmillan/lol-smh-everything-2641cef2ca40
And an opinion from college basketball writer Kevin Sweeney
https://cbbcentral.com/2018/08/09/column-ncaas-latest-attempt-to-save-face-fails/
Quote from: may know on August 07, 2018, 12:48:39 AM
Mizzou already plays Illinois every year at Scottrade.
UWM will be really bad next year. Boat sailed on them.
Just FYI. The name of the arena at 14th & Clark in St Louis where the St Louis Blues and Arch Madness is played is now called the Enterprise Center. It is now named for the car rental company that is headquarted in St Louis and hires many ex-NCAA athletes. I believe that the Scottrade Company was absorbed by another investment company.
Interesting piece of data on the A10.
https://twitter.com/peteybuckets/status/1027309021953437696
For comparison's sake the MVC data is in the comments.
Here's another interesting table of data: Best mids since '08:
Butler Creighton St Mary's and UNI are all on this list multiple times. Last year's Loyola team is on there at #20 I believe and the 2016 Crusaders check in at 31.
I'm interested to see the methodology behind these rankings and how he defines the term "true mid."
https://twitter.com/totally_t_bomb/status/1027953002181742592
What a slap in the face of the MVC by this Creighton fan.
https://twitter.com/Lets_Go_Jays/status/1027956604736397313
So CUSA is a major on par with the A10 and MWC
The Ivy League CAA and MAC are mid majors
But the MVC is neither.
Yeah... Okay...
His selection of the Ivy League getting 2 bids, demonstrates how much his opinion should matter.
Even more interesting in that chart is that the 2016 St. Mary's team is ranked 10 spots above us.
I didn't notice it was the same St Mary's team we spanked when they came to the ARC. Thought it was a different one. Either that was a massive upset or his metrics are flawed. Either way it underscores just how good that 15-16 team was. I firmly believe that it was that team that most likely clinched our spot in the MVC. Of course following that year up with 24 wins a conference co-championship and an at-large bid to the NIT despite a coaching transition, multiple injuries, and undue heavyhandedness by the NCAA didn't hurt either.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 14, 2018, 03:23:17 AM
I didn't notice it was the same St Mary's team we spanked when they came to the ARC. Thought it was a different one. Either that was a massive upset or his metrics are flawed. Either way it underscores just how good that 15-16 team was. I firmly believe that it was that team that most likely clinched our spot in the MVC. Of course following that year up with 24 wins a conference co-championship and an at-large bid to the NIT despite a coaching transition, multiple injuries, and undue heavyhandedness by the NCAA didn't hurt either.
It's an efficiency ranking, so it takes into account the results of the entire season, not just one game. Even though the 2016 Saint Mary's team is ranked 10 spots ahead in this ranking and was about 10 spots ahead of them overall in 2016, Valpo having the game at home would at the very least favor a close game, if not an outright win by the Crusaders. Now the margin by which Valpo won the contest wasn't the expected result, however, a one game sample size is way too small to judge the merits or value of a particular team over the course of an entire season. Otherwise, one could then say that the 2016 Valpo team wasn't that good because they got "spanked" by a George Washington (at a neutral site) team that going into the game was ranked 20 spots lower than them in these same type of analytical ratings.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 14, 2018, 07:50:48 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 14, 2018, 03:23:17 AM
I didn't notice it was the same St Mary's team we spanked when they came to the ARC. Thought it was a different one. Either that was a massive upset or his metrics are flawed. Either way it underscores just how good that 15-16 team was. I firmly believe that it was that team that most likely clinched our spot in the MVC. Of course following that year up with 24 wins a conference co-championship and an at-large bid to the NIT despite a coaching transition, multiple injuries, and undue heavyhandedness by the NCAA didn't hurt either.
It's an efficiency ranking, so it takes into account the results of the entire season, not just one game. Even though the 2016 Saint Mary's team is ranked 10 spots ahead in this ranking and was about 10 spots ahead of them overall in 2016, Valpo having the game at home would at the very least favor a close game, if not an outright win by the Crusaders. Now the margin by which Valpo won the contest wasn't the expected result, however, a one game sample size is way too small to judge the merits or value of a particular team over the course of an entire season. Otherwise, one could then say that the 2016 Valpo team wasn't that good because they got "spanked" by a George Washington (at a neutral site) team that going into the game was ranked 20 spots lower than them in these same type of analytical ratings.
Bingo was his name-ooo. Concur Dr Irish
Here's Craig's conclusion of "The Cinderella Code" I really hope people with decision-making power at VU read this portion and see the potential economic impacts if we could have a run like this. Interestingly the three teams Craig points out as having the potential to become the next Cinderella are: Grand Canyon, Penn, and Lipscomb, two of whom are schools the MVC could theoretically have if they wanted not that I'm necessarily advocating for either one.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/8/14/17688380/the-cinderella-code-part-6-who-will-be-next-mid-major-to-make-the-final-four-grand-canyon-penn
The nunber$ across the board blow your mind.
Karl Benson to step down as Sun Belt commissioner.
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/1029856527165923333
https://twitter.com/SunBelt/status/1030152207986053120
Interesting.
I've been wondering what impact legalized gambling might have on college basketball. A 1% "integrity tax" just sounds like a way for the universities to get a piece of the pie. The part where they said it would be used to educate student-athletes on unscrupulous behavior gave me a chuckle.
https://twitter.com/collegead/status/1031512476779798528?s=20
2014, I chuckled too at that. I was thinking more than the players, they should use that money to teach coaches about unscrupulous behavior. In the last few years you've had Pitino, Pearl, Tim Floyd, Larry Eustachy, Jim Harrick, Sampson and probably the dirtiest that lands on his feet all the time, Calipari, doing some really shady stuff. I'm sure I'm missing some too.
When I look at that, it makes me glad I root for a school like Valpo.
Quote from: ValpoDad89 on August 21, 2018, 08:48:03 AM
2014, I chuckled too at that. I was thinking more than the players, they should use that money to teach coaches about unscrupulous behavior. In the last few years you've had Pitino, Pearl, Tim Floyd, Larry Eustachy, Jim Harrick, Sampson and probably the dirtiest that lands on his feet all the time, Calipari, doing some really shady stuff. I'm sure I'm missing some too.
When I look at that, it makes me glad I root for a school like Valpo.
How is Pitino less dirty than Calipari? Calipari has paid players and had someone take high school exams for them so they could qualify for college. Pitino hooked up with an assistant coach's wife in the bathroom of a restaurant, paid recruits to come there and had hookers on recruiting trips for both current players and recruits on visits.
You should be glad to root for Valpo, but Pitino takes the cake for sure in my opinion.
Point taken Irish Dawg. His transgressions and moral fiber are tainted for sure but Pitino will not be coaching anytime soon IMO. Not sure any network will take a chance on hiring him either. Calipari stays gainfully employed while leaving two programs, UMass and Memphis in the dust and had to face sanctions as a result of his actions as he moved on elsewhere. I don't deny any complicity on the part of either institution and feel no sorrow for what they went through but I have a hard time with the fact that the guy is guilty and pays nothing for any damage he caused. Pitino at least is finally paying a price as well as he should.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 21, 2018, 10:04:43 AMPitino hooked up with an assistant coach's wife in the bathroom of a restaurant, paid recruits to come there and had hookers on recruiting trips for both current players and recruits on visits.
Well, aren't we all glad Rick Pitino didn't leave himself out of the "rewards." :crazy:
https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/1032282424888242177
Well said.
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/1032410259757969408
NIT looking to expand by eight teams by 2020. This could\should be good news for teams in leagues like the MVC. Have a decent year against a tough schedule and you can at least land in the NIT.
https://thesouthern.com/sports/college/salukimania/college-basketball-mvc-commissioner-says-nit-looking-at-expanding-in/article_e263a13e-333b-506f-9bf7-cb54bbea2e08.html
I've been wondering if the new NCAA recruiting rule will hurt programs like Valpo. There is potentially some good and some bad. It may drive to coaches to scout and recruit at High Schools more than just relying so heavily on the AAU period to evaluate/scout player. The problem for mid-majors on very tight budgets is that those giant AAU gatherings allow coaches to scout in a very cost-effective way. Maybe more kids fall through the cracks and become diamonds in the rough at the Mid-Major level? No matter what, if kids can play they will be found by someone and get an opportunity.
It could be a interesting article idea for the NWI Times or Post-Trib, depending if the coaches would be completely candid on the record with their thoughts on the recruiting rule change and if it will impact our recruiting.
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1034067564710780928
Look at this home schedule:
https://nmstatesports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
Talk about the ultimate "what if?"
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/9/7/17831902/george-mason-patriots-caa-grant-hill-duke-recruiting-tommy-amaker
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 06, 2018, 02:50:19 PM
Look at this home schedule:
https://nmstatesports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
How did they get St. Mary's to play a true road game against another mid-major? Maybe St. Mary's is learning from their past mistakes.
Coming within an inch of losing your conference's flagship program will make other programs reevaluate their PRACTICES and do things they aren't used to. That said it's time to bring them to the ARC.
It is a mystery to me, an admitted D-I dunce, why top level mid majors don't conspire annually to prolifically schedule each other in OOC games instead of lamenting (sniff, sniff) that the P-5 won't play fair. Hell, the P5 is consistantly conspiring against mid-majors. Organize, conspire, back atcha P5.
Isn't it ironic that the Mid-Majors complain about being hurt by the "big boys" who schedule "cupcake" pre-season games but shy away from decent mid-major programs like VU but then the mid-majors schedule the Chicago States, Concordia/Ill, Purdue NW, etc., etc. Like it or not the mid-majors like the cupcake games too apparently. Talk about the M-Ms scheduling "money" games, Purdue FW(formerly IPFW) is traveling all the way to the West Coast to play UCLA!
As hard as I've been on the P5 and they deserve every ounce of vitriol they get,That should have been the response by mids but it's much easier to cry foul. To be fair success in the mid major world is more fleeting and the field is more volatile but you do what you have to do.
Perhaps we should consider being a part of this.
http://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/news/2018-19/15338/mens-hoops-to-join-scheduling-alliance-in-2019/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 22, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
Perhaps we should consider being a part of this.
http://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/news/2018-19/15338/mens-hoops-to-join-scheduling-alliance-in-2019/
If we can get guaranteed quality opponents on our schedule that helps us achieve our goals of making the touney then I'm for the idea. Any idea of who else has joined this alliance? If schools of MVC, MWC, A10, top WCC's ilk and the very top dogs from low/mid major conferences (St. Mary's, Murray, Belmont, FGCU, etc) are involved then maybe I could see the benefit. Our Athletics Dept has shown the financial commitment to pay to travel and be in these quality neutral site tournament's. Other mid-major schools haven't shown the same commitment and I could see it being beneficial of them.
I'm not saying this should be either\or it should be both if we can manage it. Do this instead of the non-D1s and it's a big win regardless of who has joined.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 22, 2018, 10:20:25 PM
I'm not saying this should be either\or it should be both if we can manage it. Do this instead of the non-D1s and it's a big win regardless of who has joined.
It depends. From a fan interest perspective, absolutely. But playing low majors/or weaker mid-majors may hurt more than they help. In the old format (RPI), it wouldn't hurt or benefit to play a non-d1. Under the NCAA's new proprietary metric it's unclear what the proper strategy should be.
It may or may not help joining this alliance. Maybe it's worth taking the risk and trying to set an example for other teams from good mid-major conferences in hopes others join.
I have to say that East Tennessee State joining is a great sign for the caliber of programs we could play if we joined.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 22, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
Perhaps we should consider being a part of this.
http://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/news/2018-19/15338/mens-hoops-to-join-scheduling-alliance-in-2019/
It's basically a bracketbuster type of event, only now they're guessing which teams will be good rather than knowing which teams are good for the pairings.
It's certainly better than non-D1 games, but this type of thing isn't going to generate more bids (which is why Gonzaga and the A-10 never took part in the bracketbusters). One of the biggest complaints about the bracketbusters was that they were basically a play-in-game, where one of the mid-majors would be eliminated from an at-large berth simply by losing that game.
If it's simply to get better home and aways, it's a possibility, but keep in mind that it's the mid-major Czar Mark Adams who is determining the matchups, not the coaches, and certainly not the fans, so it's definitely not a guarantee that Valpo would play a team at home that would be desirable for fans to watch.
To me, it seems like it's simply accelerating (but not as much as the P5 leagues moving to 20 games conference schedules) a scenario where we wind up with separate tournaments for the P5+2 and the rest of college basketball, which is not where I want things to wind up at.
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 23, 2018, 07:36:30 AM
To me, it seems like it's simply accelerating (but not as much as the P5 leagues moving to 20 games conference schedules) a scenario where we wind up with separate tournaments for the P5+2 and the rest of college basketball, which is not where I want things to wind up at.
I really hope it doesn't come to that. It would ruin the whole spirit of the tournament and be bad for the sport. Mid-majors still offer value to the TV Networks, because everyone loves Cinderella's. Mid-majors can captivate the casual sports fans interest more than powerhouses. Also having mid-majors in the tournament also drive gambling, which leads to viewers.
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 23, 2018, 07:36:30 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 22, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
Perhaps we should consider being a part of this.
http://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/news/2018-19/15338/mens-hoops-to-join-scheduling-alliance-in-2019/
It's basically a bracketbuster type of event, only now they're guessing which teams will be good rather than knowing which teams are good for the pairings.
It's certainly better than non-D1 games, but this type of thing isn't going to generate more bids (which is why Gonzaga and the A-10 never took part in the bracketbusters). One of the biggest complaints about the bracketbusters was that they were basically a play-in-game, where one of the mid-majors would be eliminated from an at-large berth simply by losing that game.
If it's simply to get better home and aways, it's a possibility, but keep in mind that it's the mid-major Czar Mark Adams who is determining the matchups, not the coaches, and certainly not the fans, so it's definitely not a guarantee that Valpo would play a team at home that would be desirable for fans to watch.
To me, it seems like it's simply accelerating (but not as much as the P5 leagues moving to 20 games conference schedules) a scenario where we wind up with separate tournaments for the P5+2 and the rest of college basketball, which is not where I want things to wind up at.
I think you could be unduly focusing on "process flaws" and missing the larger point. Everyone who follows mid major basketball recognizes that good mid major programs need to do something to bridge the gap created by major programs adding conference games, only agreeing to buy games against clearly inferior opponents, refusing to play 2-for-1's, etc. The Adams' thing is a workaround for that. That's a good thing, not a bad thing. To the point that his system might have some match-up challenges, so what? Unlike Bracket Busters, these are Nov. games, not Feb, so pairing up teams is more theoretical, and thus more challenging. It's still far better to be guaranteed 2 games against a an evenly matched opponent than everyone continuing to flounder around on their own and not getting the job done.
In the end it only matters who the almighty Mark Adams picks for Valpo to play and even if he uses some math formula for matching teams if lower D1 teams join after Valpo despite there being only good D1 teams when Valpo joins the alliance then the chances of playing lower D1 teams is greater.
Also based on last year Adams would have to rate Valpo at best as being a lower to medium D1 team.
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 07:50:37 AM
In the end it only matters who the almighty Mark Adams picks for Valpo to play and even if he uses some math formula for matching teams if lower D1 teams join after Valpo despite there being only good D1 teams when Valpo joins the alliance then the chances of playing lower D1 teams is greater.
Also based on last year Adams would have to rate Valpo at best as being a lower to medium D1 team.
If that's all he took into account, you would be right. You might try rereading the article.
Quote from: wh on September 24, 2018, 08:03:12 AM
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 07:50:37 AM
In the end it only matters who the almighty Mark Adams picks for Valpo to play and even if he uses some math formula for matching teams if lower D1 teams join after Valpo despite there being only good D1 teams when Valpo joins the alliance then the chances of playing lower D1 teams is greater.
Also based on last year Adams would have to rate Valpo at best as being a lower to medium D1 team.
If that's all he took into account, you would be right. You might try rereading the article.
Where does it say Valpo wouldn't have a greater chance of being scheduled against lower D1 teams because they finished with a losing record last season.
A benefit I see would be better home games like the game against Utah State instead of a game against Concordia Chicago. It doesn't mean we wouldn't be playing the SIUE or UC Riverside games.
Benefits of the Alliance:
The Alliance projects that at least four of the top spending conferences will go to 20 conference games, which eliminates 110 non-conference games from their scheduling portfolios in the next few years. These two alliance games will help build guaranteed inventory based on the shrinking number of non-conference games available.
During the 2017-18 season, many lesser funded programs played only 40 percent or less of all non-conference games at home compared to the top spenders playing 64 percent of all non-conference games at home. This 50/50 split of the initial alliance challenge games helps that dynamic.
Future Vision:
The Alliance will transition from the two-game format in 2019 to a comprehensive MTE (Multiple Team Events/Non-Conference Tournament) strategy for multiple aligned conferences/teams in 2020.
The Alliance's goal is to create cost effective challenge games and MTE's with oversight by The Alliance's teams and participating conference leaders.
These MTE's will be designed to bring the best mid-level spending conferences/teams together to create great match ups and add value to NCAA resumes.
The goal is to save money while leveraging the collective value of participating top teams from our conferences and teams.
In theory this Alliance is a great idea but for it to add value to us it would need to guarantee us meaningful games against top mid-major opponents. Do they have a list of who is on board yet? etsu is a solid program. If it ends up being a collection of low majors/weaker mid-majors it won't make a difference for anyone who joins. This Alliance needs to get the MWC, A10, and MVC schools on board.
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 08:21:13 AM
Where does it say Valpo wouldn't have a greater chance of being scheduled against lower D1 teams because they finished with a losing record last season.
"This approach is designed to insure member programs of at least one road and one home non-conference game against another member of The Alliance.
Match-ups will be determined by Adams, who will use NCAA Tournament Selection metrics and an analysis of returning players/recruiting classes to develop those pairings. These "challenge games" as they are being called, will be played on Nov. 26 and Nov. 30 of 2019."
http://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/news/2018-19/15338/mens-hoops-to-join-scheduling-alliance-in-2019/
Same article, different source:
"This approach is designed to insure member programs of at least one road and one home non-conference game against another member of The Alliance.
Match-ups will be determined by Adams, who will use NCAA Tournament Selection metrics and an analysis of returning players/recruiting classes to develop those pairings. These "challenge games" as they are being called, will be played on Nov. 26 and Nov. 30 of 2019."
https://www.johnsoncitypress.com/Basketball/2018/09/19/ETSU-basketball-team-to-join-scheduling-alliance.html?ci=stream&lp=1&p=1
I think you are giving too much credit to Adams for seeing that an unproven group of Valpo transfers and recruits will be talented enough to push Valpo into the upper half of the D1 teams. But I do appreciate your fandom of VUMBB and hope with all my heart that your vision about this alliance is better than mine.
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 11:30:52 AM
I think you are giving too much credit to Adams for seeing that an unproven group of Valpo transfers and recruits will be talented enough to push Valpo into the upper half of the D1 teams. But I do appreciate your fandom of VUMBB and hope with all my heart that your vision about this alliance is better than mine.
I don't know Adams from Adam. What I do know is there's nothing to lose by joining this Alliance. You said that you're concerned we're going to get matched up against the SIUE's and UC Riverside's of the mid major world. Who do you think we bring into the ARC now, for heaven's sakes? Heck, I would consider anyone in the top 200 to be a major win over the garbage teams coming into the ARC this year. To repeat, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by participating in a coordinated scheduling improvement initiative with other mid-major programs dealing with the same problem we are.
Quote from: wh on September 24, 2018, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 11:30:52 AM
I think you are giving too much credit to Adams for seeing that an unproven group of Valpo transfers and recruits will be talented enough to push Valpo into the upper half of the D1 teams. But I do appreciate your fandom of VUMBB and hope with all my heart that your vision about this alliance is better than mine.
I don't know Adams from Adam. What I do know is there's nothing to lose by joining this Alliance. You said that you're concerned we're going to get matched up against the SIUE's and UC Riverside's of the mid major world. Who do you think we bring into the ARC now, for heaven's sakes? Heck, I would consider anyone in the top 200 to be a major win over the garbage teams coming into the ARC this year. To repeat, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by participating in a coordinated scheduling improvement initiative with other mid-major programs dealing with the same problem we are.
Really good points. The timing would be good since the MVC-MWC challenge going away next year.
You would think that since every mid-major seems to complain about how hard it is to schedule that the schools/coaches could just pick up the phone and schedule these game on their own, but I guess I'm naive and don't understand. If it takes Adams getting involved to make these matchups happen, then so be it.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 24, 2018, 12:33:42 PM
Quote from: wh on September 24, 2018, 12:20:44 PM
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 11:30:52 AM
I think you are giving too much credit to Adams for seeing that an unproven group of Valpo transfers and recruits will be talented enough to push Valpo into the upper half of the D1 teams. But I do appreciate your fandom of VUMBB and hope with all my heart that your vision about this alliance is better than mine.
I don't know Adams from Adam. What I do know is there's nothing to lose by joining this Alliance. You said that you're concerned we're going to get matched up against the SIUE's and UC Riverside's of the mid major world. Who do you think we bring into the ARC now, for heaven's sakes? Heck, I would consider anyone in the top 200 to be a major win over the garbage teams coming into the ARC this year. To repeat, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by participating in a coordinated scheduling improvement initiative with other mid-major programs dealing with the same problem we are.
Really good points. The timing would be good since the MVC-MWC challenge going away next year.
You would think that since every mid-major seems to complain about how hard it is to schedule that the schools/coaches could just pick up the phone and schedule these game on their own, but I guess I'm naive and don't understand. If it takes Adams getting involved to make these matchups happen, then so be it.
I thought I read somewhere where this is a one year break then back at it. If that is true then Valpo would be a home team in the next round. We are bringing in GW next year and perhaps we can start a good home and home at our place next season as well. Having said that, I see no reason why we shouldn't join. It can't hurt.
What if............
The the top 5 Mid-major conferences got together and created a much larger preconference round robin challenge with 4 games (2 home and 2 away) matching teams by previous season regular season finish 1-10 (i.e., 1 plays 1, 2 plays 2, >>>>>> 10 plays 10). That would guarantee 4 competitive games and 2 good home games for all teams involved. It could span 2 weeks in November or December.
The top 5 RPI conferences below #7 American Athletic are:
8 MVC
9 MWC
10 CAA
11 A-10
12 MAC
Using 2017-18
Loyola would play: 1- Nevada (MWC), 1-Charleston (CAA), 1-URI (A-10), 1-Buffalo (MAC)
Valpo would play: 10-Colorado State (MWC), 10-James Madison (CAA), 10 Duquesne (A-10), 10-Bowling Green
If this expanded to 7 conferences (and 6 guaranteed games with 3 home / 3 away) the next two in would be the WCC and the WAC
Or is this too simplistic?
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 24, 2018, 03:01:51 PMValpo would play: 10-Colorado State (MWC), 10-James Madison (CAA), 10 Duquesne (A-10), 10-Bowling Green
To me that isn't much better than playing SIUE & UC Riverside. We would have to get lucky and one of those teams would win a lot more games than they did in 17-18. If we had to travel to Ft. Collins, CO & Harrisonburg, VA and play low D1s we aren't gaining anything and could lose.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 23, 2018, 03:54:07 PMI really hope it doesn't come to that. It would ruin the whole spirit of the tournament and be bad for the sport. Mid-majors still offer value to the TV Networks, because everyone loves Cinderella's. Mid-majors can captivate the casual sports fans interest more than powerhouses. Also having mid-majors in the tournament also drive gambling, which leads to viewers.
This why I proposed all the mid-majors boycotting the NCAA tournament for 2 years to see where the ratings go--hopefully way south--and then renegotiating a deal that guarantees mid-majors more places in the tournament.
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 23, 2018, 07:36:30 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 22, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
Perhaps we should consider being a part of this.
http://www.etsubucs.com/mbasketball/news/2018-19/15338/mens-hoops-to-join-scheduling-alliance-in-2019/
It's certainly better than non-D1 games, but this type of thing isn't going to generate more bids (which is why Gonzaga and the A-10 never took part in the bracketbusters). One of the biggest complaints about the bracketbusters was that they were basically a play-in-game, where one of the mid-majors would be eliminated from an at-large berth simply by losing that game.
Just a personal opinion here, but I completely disagree. 99.9% of Mid-Majors simply had no chance to begin with during the bracket busters of years ago. The simply fact of the matter for the vast majority of those teams playing was no at large bid was forthcoming but if they played a road game against a highly thought of mid-major and won, well then they are finally not losing ground in RPI.
I strongly welcome such tournaments but I think they must be played in the month of December when nearly no invitational tournaments are played. Prefer to see games for 10-days after thanksgiving because most students are still in school. Leave the "get healthy" games against inferior D1 competition for the last 10-days of December.
But again, bracket busters (as a whole) do not eliminate Mid-Majors from contention. Simply put, they take two mediocre chances for an at-large bid and produce 1-better chance for an at-large bid.
If a game like Murray State vs Loyola happened last year, you cannot convince me that either team would get a large benefit in the eyes of the selection committee (for example). Forget the stupid RPI and other numbers, those are only used to eliminate mid-majors. Start thinking big picture, IMO all these categories that the selection committee and NCAA put forth are only meant to disqualify more mid-majors.
TAKE THE BATTLE TO THEM AND FORCE THEM TO CONTINUALLY CHANGE THE FIELD OF BATTLE. WE ARE UP FOR THE CHALLENGE YOU FAT OLD ENTITLED CHEATING WHITE MEN!!!!
We could have had TWO Murray State-Loyola matchups if the MVC would have just gone to 11 and 20 games... I bet that would have pushed Loyola over the goal line and been a significant boon for the Racers as well. I think we could have gotten 2 bids last year if we had done it.
Scheduling going forward will not only continue to be a nightmare but will get worse. I realize going to 11 and 20 makes it that much harder to make the NCAA tourney. However, we have to understand at best our program is only going to be a 1 out of every 4 year tourney team anyway. So if we have an opportunity to make the regular season more enjoyable we should do it. Add Murray State please! Even if that drops us to 1/6 years but when we do make it we win a game or 2 every time by being good enough to survive a better MVC than so be it.
In the meantime at least we have that much more to look forward too during the regular season.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on September 25, 2018, 07:13:39 AM
Scheduling going forward will not only continue to be a nightmare but will get worse. I realize going to 11 and 20 makes it that much harder to make the NCAA tourney. However, we have to understand at best our program is only going to be a 1 out of every 4 year tourney team anyway. So if we have an opportunity to make the regular season more enjoyable we should do it. Add Murray State please! Even if that drops us to 1/6 years but when we do make it we win a game or 2 every time by being good enough to survive a better MVC than so be it.
In the meantime at least we have that much more to look forward too during the regular season.
I carry the same logic regarding 1 out of 4 years in the MVC (qualifying for NCAA tournament). And you make a solid point that scheduling is already a nightmare and will likely continue to get worse. I am just not sure if adding (2) teams will be a long term success story,
financially. In my view all it does is decrease our share derived from NCAA and TV deals (limited as they are).
In my (far from connected) view, we already have difficulty in spending on athletics to begin with. If adding (2) teams causes even more of a strain on our annual athletics budget then I do not advocate for adding teams.
One way I could get behind adding (2) teams is to ward off conference collapse syndrome. If a couple powerful teams leave for greener pastures in the future, we'd still have a stable of 10 teams with quality mid-major chops to buoy the league. So if we are arguing for conference viability, then I could see casting a vote for expansion. Just not sure at this time that it brings added financial value or doing it to make scheduling less of a headache gets my vote today.
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 07:56:56 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 24, 2018, 03:01:51 PMValpo would play: 10-Colorado State (MWC), 10-James Madison (CAA), 10 Duquesne (A-10), 10-Bowling Green
To me that isn't much better than playing SIUE & UC Riverside. We would have to get lucky and one of those teams would win a lot more games than they did in 17-18. If we had to travel to Ft. Collins, CO & Harrisonburg, VA and play low D1s we aren't gaining anything and could lose.
Agreed. Heck, we were a 10th place team. But the Valpo example was predicated on our finish LAST YEAR. I believe we will finish much higher this season and that would be the basis for a Fall 2019 Mid-Major Challenge. Going back to the 2017-18 basis, if we had wound up 5th (Bradley's position), we would have had the following schedule:
Valpo RPI 106 (postulated using Bradley's RPI) plays: 5-Fresno State RPI 103 (MWC), 5-Towson State RPI 157 (CAA), VCU RPI 135 (A-10), 5-Kent State RPI 154 (MAC). [Average RPI ~ 137]
vs.
Valpo RPI 174 (actual) plays: 10-Colorado State RPI 235 (MWC), 10-James Madison RPI 273 (CAA), 10 Duquesne RPI 259 (A-10), 10-Bowling Green RPI 195 (MAC). [Average RPI ~ 240]
This kind of challenge setup provides great incentive both inside and outside a conference: Inside - the higher a team rises within the conference standings, the better the OOC becomes. Outside - the more improved an entire conference's aggregate results are, the better the opponents for it's participating teams.
But, hey, this type of out-of-the-box thinking would require very many stars to alig, and, sadly, Mid Majors have demonstrated a lack of cohesiveness except for complaining a lot.
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 07:56:56 PM
This why I proposed all the mid-majors boycotting the NCAA tournament for 2 years to see where the ratings go--hopefully way south--and then renegotiating a deal that guarantees mid-majors more places in the tournament.
This would totally work, but it won't happen because it would be difficult for mid-majors to pass on tournament revenue for two years.
Mids should at least threaten this and see what happens. The NCAA certainly doesn't want another disaster like 2015 where the Final Four had Kentucky, Wisconsin, Michigan State and Duke. Boring.
Exactly. Say whatever you will about Adams and his proposals and methods, but at least he's out there trying SOMETHING which is more than can be said about most mid-major advocates. Even if this doesn't result in more at-large bids, even if all we get out of this is better home games than we can generally find on our own, did we really lose? Wouldn't you rather watch Fresno State VCU Towson and Kent State than UCR SIUE and 2 non-D1s? I know I would.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 25, 2018, 12:26:37 PM
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 07:56:56 PM
This why I proposed all the mid-majors boycotting the NCAA tournament for 2 years to see where the ratings go--hopefully way south--and then renegotiating a deal that guarantees mid-majors more places in the tournament.
This would totally work, but it won't happen because it would be difficult for mid-majors to pass on tournament revenue for two years.
Mids should at least threaten this and see what happens. The NCAA certainly doesn't want another disaster like 2015 where the Final Four had Kentucky, Wisconsin, Michigan State and Duke. Boring.
:twocents: Boycotting from a position of weakness, to me, is an expression of desperation more like a hunger strike or the cutting-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face situation. It presupposes that people will take notice and create a ground swell of support. It also presupposes that the P-6+ will see the error of their ways and after two years of collecting the whole Dance pot willingly reincluding Mid Majors in the tournament and willingly splitting the pot again. A boycott plays right into their greedy hands. Once that door is slammed, abetted by a boycott, mid majors will have successfully defaulted to a post season alternative that no one will really follow nationally. :twocents:
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 25, 2018, 11:29:09 AM
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 07:56:56 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 24, 2018, 03:01:51 PMValpo would play: 10-Colorado State (MWC), 10-James Madison (CAA), 10 Duquesne (A-10), 10-Bowling Green
To me that isn't much better than playing SIUE & UC Riverside. We would have to get lucky and one of those teams would win a lot more games than they did in 17-18. If we had to travel to Ft. Collins, CO & Harrisonburg, VA and play low D1s we aren't gaining anything and could lose.
Agreed. Heck, we were a 10th place team. But the Valpo example was predicated on our finish LAST YEAR. I believe we will finish much higher this season and that would be the basis for a Fall 2019 Mid-Major Challenge. Going back to the 2017-18 basis, if we had wound up 5th (Bradley's position), we would have had the following schedule:
Valpo RPI 106 (postulated using Bradley's RPI) plays: 5-Fresno State RPI 103 (MWC), 5-Towson State RPI 157 (CAA), VCU RPI 135 (A-10), 5-Kent State RPI 154 (MAC). [Average RPI ~ 137]
vs.
Valpo RPI 174 (actual) plays: 10-Colorado State RPI 235 (MWC), 10-James Madison RPI 273 (CAA), 10 Duquesne RPI 259 (A-10), 10-Bowling Green RPI 195 (MAC). [Average RPI ~ 240]
This kind of challenge setup provides great incentive both inside and outside a conference: Inside - the higher a team rises within the conference standings, the better the OOC becomes. Outside - the more improved an entire conference's aggregate results are, the better the opponents for it's participating teams.
But, hey, this type of out-of-the-box thinking would require very many stars to alig, and, sadly, Mid Majors have demonstrated a lack of cohesiveness except for complaining a lot.
I am going to take this even further. In world soccer, they have divisions based on performance and poorly performing teams are relegated to a lower division while the better performing teams in the division below are promoted. What better way to counter the P-6+ monopoly than loosely organize Mid Majors along this concept? Why stop at just the top 5 Mid major conferences in a single challenge? Have tiers and have multiple challenges that include all mid-majors. In this scenario, if conferences improve their ranking they get "promoted" to the next higher challenge rung on the ladder replacing poorly performing conferences that get relegated. And promotion/relegation is easily calculated based on the season end RPI (or whatever the conference rating system turns out to be). This system supports inclusion in the Dance and plays the scheduling game (and the need to increase at-large possibilities by essentially beating the P-6+ at their own game). This still allows MMs to schedule buy games with P-6+ teams to fill out their OOC schedule, as well as commit to December holiday tournaments at glamorous places as well.
Added benefit: Those two Challenge weeks prior to opening the conference schedule could also be viewed as more attractive to TV and cable (November Madness???) than UK blowing out Little Sisters of the Poor U. It would have structure and would be very combative with a lot riding on those game results. Because the games are all at campus sites, the atmosphere could be electric. Might even put a few bucks in MM pockets.
Yeah... Call it mid madness and sell it to the networks. As long as it's not diluted by too many bad games it could provide a nice revenue boost for mids.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 25, 2018, 01:51:34 PM
Yeah... Call it mid madness and sell it to the networks. As long as it's not diluted by too many bad games it could provide a nice revenue boost for mids.
Catchy title. In most cases I would think the networs/cable would only seek out the #1s and #2s in each teir for national exposure, but a fair split of revenue at each teir still might help to underwrite travel budgets for all participants. The non-national games would default to conference TV deals like any other game on the schedule.
Awfully optimistic to think networks would flock to this when the Loyola-Nevada rematch this season is being relegated to ESPNEWS.
I donno. Single game vs. an across the nation package concentrated in two weeks?
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 25, 2018, 12:26:37 PM
Quote from: bbtds on September 24, 2018, 07:56:56 PM
This why I proposed all the mid-majors boycotting the NCAA tournament for 2 years to see where the ratings go--hopefully way south--and then renegotiating a deal that guarantees mid-majors more places in the tournament.
This would totally work, but it won't happen because it would be difficult for mid-majors to pass on tournament revenue for two years.
Mids should at least threaten this and see what happens. The NCAA certainly doesn't want another disaster like 2015 where the Final Four had Kentucky, Wisconsin, Michigan State and Duke. Boring.
If you're being sarcastic Eddie, Bravo. The 2015 Final 4 was the best rated Final 4's in the previous 2 decades and the entire tournament, which was very chalky after the first weekend, was also one of the best-rated tournaments in the last 2 decades. Meanwhile last year's tourney ratings were tied for the lowest average ratings since 2009 (I'm not saying it's Loyola's fault either). The NCAA's TV partners absolutely want it to be Kentucky, Duke, Kansas and North Carolina in the Final 4 every single year.
I'm coming around on the scheduling alliance, but only as it pertains to getting better matchups for mid-majors than they might otherwise get. I don't think it results in more tourney bids or TV revenue for the schools.
A scheduling alliance seems like a good thing, yet boycotting the NCAA tournament does not make sense.
The problem is not that the blue blood programs get to go to the tournament, it is the mediocre teams from the Power 5 that take slots away from deserving mid-Majors. Rather than a boycott, a better way to approach this is for athletic directors and presidents to band together, supporting a proposal to limit the number of teams from any conference. I've made this argument before, but a simple criteria for inclusion in the NCAA tournament might be as follows:
1) Be in the top 25 of one of the major polls.
2) Take first or second in your conference tournament.
3) Have a winning record in your conference.
This would prevent the teams with 8-10 conference records for being rewarded with NCAA tournament bids. It still allows teams that got hot in the end or who are well-ranked to get in, yet preserves more openings for teams like Illinois State, MTSU or St. Marys who have limited opportunities for P5 wins.
Quote from: valpo95 on September 25, 2018, 08:58:02 PM
A scheduling alliance seems like a good thing, yet boycotting the NCAA tournament does not make sense.
The problem is not that the blue blood programs get to go to the tournament, it is the mediocre teams from the Power 5 that take slots away from deserving mid-Majors. Rather than a boycott, a better way to approach this is for athletic directors and presidents to band together, supporting a proposal to limit the number of teams from any conference. I've made this argument before, but a simple criteria for inclusion in the NCAA tournament might be as follows:
1) Be in the top 25 of one of the major polls.
2) Take first or second in your conference tournament.
3) Have a winning record in your conference.
This would prevent the teams with 8-10 conference records for being rewarded with NCAA tournament bids. It still allows teams that got hot in the end or who are well-ranked to get in, yet preserves more openings for teams like Illinois State, MTSU or St. Marys who have limited opportunities for P5 wins.
This is good - really good. Simple, yet effective. If the NCAA were to adopt this, I think this whole fairness issue could be put to bed.
What about the P5 teams who finish with conference records of exactly .500? Are they in or out?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 26, 2018, 01:01:07 AM
What about the P5 teams who finish with conference records of exactly .500? Are they in or out?
I can't say for sure, yet I think that they would be eligible. I've thought about it, and could be convinced either way depending on the data. It is easy to say that .500 teams should NOT be in (unless otherwise satisfied by criteria 1 or 2). However, there could be years that where a major conference has four teams with winning records in conference play, and four teams tied at say 9-9; then the rule is too harsh. Perhaps the .500 teams could be assigned to the "first four" or play-in games.
Finally, I'd add that these are eligibility criteria, not necessarily saying that those teams are in. So, a P5 team that is 10-8 in conference but has lost 9 in a row after their star player got hurt might be tournament eligible, yet not be selected by the committee.
Quote from: wh on September 26, 2018, 12:20:53 AM
Quote from: valpo95 on September 25, 2018, 08:58:02 PM
A scheduling alliance seems like a good thing, yet boycotting the NCAA tournament does not make sense.
The problem is not that the blue blood programs get to go to the tournament, it is the mediocre teams from the Power 5 that take slots away from deserving mid-Majors. Rather than a boycott, a better way to approach this is for athletic directors and presidents to band together, supporting a proposal to limit the number of teams from any conference. I've made this argument before, but a simple criteria for inclusion in the NCAA tournament might be as follows:
1) Be in the top 25 of one of the major polls.
2) Take first or second in your conference tournament.
3) Have a winning record in your conference.
This would prevent the teams with 8-10 conference records for being rewarded with NCAA tournament bids. It still allows teams that got hot in the end or who are well-ranked to get in, yet preserves more openings for teams like Illinois State, MTSU or St. Marys who have limited opportunities for P5 wins.
This is good - really good. Simple, yet effective. If the NCAA were to adopt this, I think this whole fairness issue could be put to bed.
Great ideas. This is essentially a quota system that limits bids from Power 5 conferences, leaving more opportunities for mid-majors. You could argue that selection should be based on merit only, but I like this system as it would result in a tournament field that is more diverse and inclusive.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 26, 2018, 08:16:17 AM
Quote from: wh on September 26, 2018, 12:20:53 AM
Quote from: valpo95 on September 25, 2018, 08:58:02 PM
A scheduling alliance seems like a good thing, yet boycotting the NCAA tournament does not make sense.
The problem is not that the blue blood programs get to go to the tournament, it is the mediocre teams from the Power 5 that take slots away from deserving mid-Majors. Rather than a boycott, a better way to approach this is for athletic directors and presidents to band together, supporting a proposal to limit the number of teams from any conference. I've made this argument before, but a simple criteria for inclusion in the NCAA tournament might be as follows:
1) Be in the top 25 of one of the major polls.
2) Take first or second in your conference tournament.
3) Have a winning record in your conference.
This would prevent the teams with 8-10 conference records for being rewarded with NCAA tournament bids. It still allows teams that got hot in the end or who are well-ranked to get in, yet preserves more openings for teams like Illinois State, MTSU or St. Marys who have limited opportunities for P5 wins.
This is good - really good. Simple, yet effective. If the NCAA were to adopt this, I think this whole fairness issue could be put to bed.
Great ideas. This is essentially a quota system that limits bids from Power 5 conferences, leaving more opportunities for mid-majors. You could argue that selection should be based on merit only, but I like this system as it would result in a tournament field that is more diverse and inclusive.
I'm not sure I'm totally for bid limits per conference. I just want deserving teams and stop giving bids to mediocre P6s. I really like the rule would be that you can only earn a at-large if you're above .500 in conference play. It's completely reasonable, but I highly doubt the P6 would allow that get passed as a rule.
Another rule I would implement is requiring teams to play certain % of their Non-conference schedule as true road games. Playing true road games in unfamiliar environments is good for evaluating if you truly are a at-large caliber team.
I would not include No. 1 (Top 25 in a poll). This would limit the mid-majors, and then you might end up with a scenario where there are not enough teams to fill the field. If I recall correctly, top mid-majors in the past have not been top 25 (including Valpo's year when they went to the NIT final).
Additionally, No. 2 might have a negative impact on highly performing mid-majors. I could easily see an MVC conference champ getting knocked out in an early round.
I'm not sure that you want your criteria to be that the team has to fulfill all three. If the criteria is that the candidate has to fulfill one or two of the three, then it may help mid-majors, but the P5 won't go for it. They may have a valid argument.
I do like the idea of criteria, similar to the football criteria for bowl games, i.e., to be bowl-eligible, you must have a winning record. Seems that if there was a requirement to have a winning record, mid-level teams in P5 conferences would only schedule low-majors in the OOC, which would have a negative impact on mid-major scheduling.
Quote from: 4throwfan on September 27, 2018, 12:28:42 PM
...
I'm not sure that you want your criteria to be that the team has to fulfill all three.
...
In case I wasn't clear, I was suggesting that the criteria be one of the three. Any one of the three would make a team tournament-eligible, not guarantee an invitation. So, perhaps middling mid-major team knocks off the conference regular season champion early in the conference tournament, and makes it to the tournament championship. That team would be eligible for an invitation, but so would the conference champion because it had a winning record in conference - it would be up to the committee to decide if either or neither team made it.
I do think tourney champs get auto bids (as long as all qualifying conferences have tourneys — are you listening Ivy League). Your other criteria help to more fairly fill in the rest of the field which I fully support.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 27, 2018, 07:47:10 PM
I do think tourney champs get auto bids (as long as all qualifying conferences have tourneys — are you listening Ivy League). Your other criteria help to more fairly fill in the rest of the field which I fully support.
Ivy League has had a conference tournament the last 2 seasons.
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 27, 2018, 08:44:48 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 27, 2018, 07:47:10 PM
I do think tourney champs get auto bids (as long as all qualifying conferences have tourneys — are you listening Ivy League). Your other criteria help to more fairly fill in the rest of the field which I fully support.
Ivy League has had a conference tournament the last 2 seasons.
Oops!
Article on possible changes to MTEs.
https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2018/9/26/17898098/college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-multi-team-events-mte-reform-changes-2019-20-ncaa
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 30, 2018, 01:45:51 AM
Article on possible changes to MTEs.
https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2018/9/26/17898098/college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-multi-team-events-mte-reform-changes-2019-20-ncaa
Does anyone think these changes might help mid-majors in scheduling?
For all the talk of changes to RPI, the easiest and fairest change to the system is: you must have a winning record in conference play to be eligible for an at-large bid. Simple, fair, sets a baseline standard that is universal and clear. If you can't win 10 of the 18 games in your conference, you have no plausible case to make that you should be in the field ahead of teams who met that very low bar. I don't give a crap how good your conference is -- at a certain point, you must win games.
I've yet to see a credible argument from P5 fans defending the ability to garner an at large with a .500 league record or worse that doesn't boil down to "our conference is good so we should be rewarded for mediocrity due to our proximity to said good teams and not winning games."
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on October 01, 2018, 09:50:49 PM
For all the talk of changes to RPI, the easiest and fairest change to the system is: you must have a winning record in conference play to be eligible for an at-large bid. Simple, fair, sets a baseline standard that is universal and clear. If you can't win 10 of the 18 games in your conference, you have no plausible case to make that you should be in the field ahead of teams who met that very low bar. I don't give a crap how good your conference is -- at a certain point, you must win games.
I've yet to see a credible argument from P5 fans defending the ability to garner an at large with a .500 league record or worse that doesn't boil down to "our conference is good so we should be rewarded for mediocrity due to our proximity to said good teams and not winning games."
You're welcome to that opinion, and it's one that is common among fans of programs in mid-major leagues.
FWIW, by most predictive analytics (which ignores scheduling unlike the RPI), Loyola was ranked around 40th prior to the tournament. In the Big 12, that would have put them 8th, which means they likely would not have had a winning record.
This is why power leagues still get the benefit of the doubt. When your entire league is better than all but maybe one school in a mid-major league, the difference in your opponent on a nightly basis is very, very real. The goal of the selection committee should be to get the best 68 teams in the field once the auto-bids have been decided. Giving it to a team like Saint Mary's because they had a better conference record against weaker opponents (8 games against teams ranked in the 200s, and only 4 games against teams in the top 100) may make people feel better, but a better record (which is what RPI relied a lot upon) doesn't automatically make for a better team. 3 Sweet 16 teams and 1 Elite Eight team in this year's tourney would have kept out of the tournament under your proposal.
I'm not saying that performance shouldn't matter, because even the predictive models are based on the results of the games themselves, but there is such a massive gulf between the top 6 leagues and everyone else that conference records aren't comparable.
One repercussion of requiring a winning record for an at-large bid is that it could force middling P5 schools to abandon scheduling against OOC teams that could result in a loss. This could make scheduling for high mid-majors even more difficult. For example, if the Illini view themselves as mid-pack in conference, then they may refuse a game in Chicago against Loyola at the United Center. Probably not common, but yet another headwind.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on October 01, 2018, 09:50:49 PM
For all the talk of changes to RPI, the easiest and fairest change to the system is: you must have a winning record in conference play to be eligible for an at-large bid. Simple, fair, sets a baseline standard that is universal and clear. If you can't win 10 of the 18 games in your conference, you have no plausible case to make that you should be in the field ahead of teams who met that very low bar. I don't give a crap how good your conference is -- at a certain point, you must win games.
I've yet to see a credible argument from P5 fans defending the ability to garner an at large with a .500 league record or worse that doesn't boil down to "our conference is good so we should be rewarded for mediocrity due to our proximity to said good teams and not winning games."
I see where you're going, but I think you need to consider out of conference games also. A team that starts 13-0 against a very good non-con schedule, then goes 9-9 in the best league in the country (B12 last year) would be ranked high in every metric, and IMO, should be eligible for the tournament.
Maybe a better way to make the selection process more fair would be to use a quota system designed to reward the best conferences while still providing opportunities to lesser teams who are often overlooked on Selection Sunday. It could work like this:
Top 5 conferences - 4 teams each = 20
Conferences 6-10 - 3 teams each = 15
Conferences 11-15 - 2 teams each = 10
Conferences 16-32 - 1 team each = 17
"Wild Card" = 6 (would allow for "exceptional" teams above and beyond the quotas listed to be included)
Total Teams = 68
By limiting bids to the top conferences and mandating a minimum number of participants from conferences 6 to 15, the NCAA tournament would immediately become more diverse and inclusive, providing opportunities for schools facing obstacles (like finances/fan base) not faced by the Power 5 schools.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 02, 2018, 07:12:02 AMThis is why power leagues still get the benefit of the doubt. When your entire league is better than all but maybe one school in a mid-major league, the difference in your opponent on a nightly basis is very, very real. The goal of the selection committee should be to get the best 68 teams in the field once the auto-bids have been decided. Giving it to a team like Saint Mary's because they had a better conference record against weaker opponents (8 games against teams ranked in the 200s, and only 4 games against teams in the top 100) may make people feel better, but a better record (which is what RPI relied a lot upon) doesn't automatically make for a better team. 3 Sweet 16 teams and 1 Elite Eight team in this year's tourney would have kept out of the tournament under your proposal.
Here is the main fallacy in your observation, there would be less of a need for the subjective review and selection of teams if the Power Leagues would be less incestuous and more willing to play Mid Majors on neutral courts or actual away games. Giving bids to Power League teams that have not played any significant teams in an away situation other than teams in their own league is not a way to truly measure the worthiness of teams. Who is to say that deserving Mid Majors, who did not make the tournament, could not have advanced to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, especially if they were not burdened with low seeds because marginal Power League teams were given higher seeds. Do you really think that Loyola, the best team in the 8th ranked conference deserved to be an 11 seed? The "metrics" are clearly wrong because those being judged are not all playing under the same circumstances.
QuoteThis is why power leagues still get the benefit of the doubt. When your entire league is better than all but maybe one school in a mid-major league, the difference in your opponent on a nightly basis is very, very real.
Says you. The unwillingness to play quality mids says otherwise. (Also, this is always based on the assumption that the P5 teams wouldn't have to go to the mid-major team's place for half the hypothetical conference schedule).
Quote from: FWalum on October 02, 2018, 10:39:25 AM
Here is the main fallacy in your observation, there would be less of a need for the subjective review and selection of teams if the Power Leagues would be less incestuous and more willing to play Mid Majors on neutral courts or actual away games. Giving bids to Power League teams that have not played any significant teams in an away situation other than teams in their own league is not a way to truly measure the worthiness of teams. Who is to say that deserving Mid Majors, who did not make the tournament, could not have advanced to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, especially if they were not burdened with low seeds because marginal Power League teams were given higher seeds. Do you really think that Loyola, the best team in the 8th ranked conference deserved to be an 11 seed? The "metrics" are clearly wrong because those being judged are not all playing under the same circumstances.
I apologize in advance for the length of this post.
There wouldn't be a need at all for subjective review if they would adopt an analytical/predictive model to simply pick and seed teams rather than using Q1, Top 50 or other BS metric that they can follow, but only sometimes. The selection/seeding piece of the committee at the very least should be dissolved in my opinion. You could even use an algorithm to place teams in regions if they want to keep their (such and such teams can't play each other in the 1st round) and other placement and region rules.
Unfortunately they'll never adopt my suggestion any more than they will require teams to have a better than .500 record in conference or require mid-major away games to P5 programs. But if the aim really is to get the best 68 teams in the field, this would truly be the way to do the best job of it. Scheduling wouldn't matter. If you play well enough against the competition you face during the year, whether it's mid-major or power programs, you're in.
Also, Loyola wasn't grossly misseeded under a predictive model either, as they were around the 40th ranked team prior to the tournament, so at best you could move them up a seed line under my proposal. Here are the teams that were grossly (seeded 3 or more lines higher or lower than the predictive model suggests and what happened to them in the tournament).
Xavier - 1 seed (would have been a 4 seed under predictive model) - lost in 2nd round to Florida State, who would have been a 9 seed under predictive model
Miami - 6 seed (would have been a 10 seed) - lost in first round to Loyola
Rhode Island - 7 seed (wouldn't have gotten in) - beat Oklahoma, who also wouldn't have gotten in, and lost to Duke, who would have been a 1 seed
Alabama - 9 seed (wouldn't have gotten in) - beat Virginia Tech, who would have been an 8 seed and lost to Villanova, who would have been a 1 seed
Butler - 10 seed (would have been a 6 seed) - beat Arkansas, who would have been a 9 seed and lost in 2nd round to Purdue, who would have been a 2 seed
Providence - 10 seed (wouldn't have gotten in) - lost to Texas A&M in first round, who would have been an 8 seed
St. Bonaventure/UCLA/Syracuse - 11 seeds - None of these would have been in under a predictive model. Syracuse went to the Sweet 16, but still doesn't mean they should have gotten in
Teams that would have gotten in but didn't: Penn State (8 seed), St. Mary's (7 seed), Baylor (9 seed), Louisville (9 seed), Maryland (11 seed)
Quote from: FWalum on October 02, 2018, 10:39:25 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 02, 2018, 07:12:02 AMThis is why power leagues still get the benefit of the doubt. When your entire league is better than all but maybe one school in a mid-major league, the difference in your opponent on a nightly basis is very, very real. The goal of the selection committee should be to get the best 68 teams in the field once the auto-bids have been decided. Giving it to a team like Saint Mary's because they had a better conference record against weaker opponents (8 games against teams ranked in the 200s, and only 4 games against teams in the top 100) may make people feel better, but a better record (which is what RPI relied a lot upon) doesn't automatically make for a better team. 3 Sweet 16 teams and 1 Elite Eight team in this year's tourney would have kept out of the tournament under your proposal.
Here is the main fallacy in your observation, there would be less of a need for the subjective review and selection of teams if the Power Leagues would be less incestuous and more willing to play Mid Majors on neutral courts or actual away games. Giving bids to Power League teams that have not played any significant teams in an away situation other than teams in their own league is not a way to truly measure the worthiness of teams. Who is to say that deserving Mid Majors, who did not make the tournament, could not have advanced to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, especially if they were not burdened with low seeds because marginal Power League teams were given higher seeds. Do you really think that Loyola, the best team in the 8th ranked conference deserved to be an 11 seed? The "metrics" are clearly wrong because those being judged are not all playing under the same circumstances.
I wouldn't call it a fallacy, I'd call that smart strategy. It might annoy me, but not as much as some posters on this forum.
The P5 don't have any incentive to schedule us most years. And quite frankly even if the NCAA feature more at-large Mid Majors I'm not altogether certain it gives P5 any more revenue from added viewership.
I think we are all just pissing into the wind. Especially absurd is Mid Majors protesting NCAA tournament by not accepting at-large or auto bids. WE MEAN NOTHING TO THE POWERS THAT BE.
We need a Sweet 16 of Mid Majors starting Thanksgiving weekend and ending by December 15th (schools mostly still in session). Top 5 Mid Majors get 2-bids (voted by coaches pre season) and the last 6 teams come off Mid Major Top 25?
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on October 02, 2018, 11:49:57 AM
QuoteThis is why power leagues still get the benefit of the doubt. When your entire league is better than all but maybe one school in a mid-major league, the difference in your opponent on a nightly basis is very, very real.
Says you. The unwillingness to play quality mids says otherwise. (Also, this is always based on the assumption that the P5 teams wouldn't have to go to the mid-major team's place for half the hypothetical conference schedule).
Says a lot of ranking models that have people a lot smarter than either of us putting them together and are in line with Vegas oddsmakers. Scheduling has less to do with the strength of mid-major programs and is more of a perception/money thing in my opinion. The power conference teams have the TV deals, know that they don't need games against top mid major programs to get those games on TV or to get them in the tournament, and don't want to risk any of that to play a road game that they could figuratively lose, and even if they won, would gain no substantial benefit (either perceptually or otherwise). The coaches that are making these schedules don't want to risk their livelihoods, and I can't say I blame them when millions of dollars are literally on the line.
Keep in mind that the goal is not to have the best 68 teams in the tournament. If that were the case, the auto-bids for the lowest ranked conferences would not exist, and think of the record of 16 seeds (with one exception!) in their first-round matchups. Yet those conference tournaments are playoffs for chances to get into the big dance.
Requiring a .500 record or better in conference for an at-large bid would open up 2-3 more slots for deserving mid-majors to make the tournament. It also rewards teams for winning the games on their schedule. We just don't need to see mediocre P5 teams getting in on their reputation - they had numerous chances to show how good they are and were average at best against the teams they played.
Once implemented, this also would help scheduling:The P5 teams would want to have a few more difficult non-conference games to be ready for conference play rather than the cupcake scheduling that is so prevalent right now. Teams would figure out that playing 1 or 2 true road games in non-conference play would get them more ready to go on the road in conference.
Valpo95, you might be right that in that the .500 requirement may provoke middling P5 schools to schedule more high mid-majors. But I disagreed in a separate post. My view was that the middling schools would want more cupcake OOC matchups. If a middling school could enter the P5 conference schedule with only 1 or 2 losses, then it would be easier to get to .500.
My question is: is their data to show that the .500 requirement for bowl games in college football has enticed schools to schedule tougher OOC matchups, or are there more cupcakes? Seems like that might tell a person how a school would react to a .500 requirement.
Quote from: valpo95 on October 04, 2018, 06:36:54 AM
Keep in mind that the goal is not to have the best 68 teams in the tournament. If that were the case, the auto-bids for the lowest ranked conferences would not exist, and think of the record of 16 seeds (with one exception!) in their first-round matchups. Yet those conference tournaments are playoffs for chances to get into the big dance.
Requiring a .500 record or better in conference for an at-large bid would open up 2-3 more slots for deserving mid-majors to make the tournament. It also rewards teams for winning the games on their schedule. We just don't need to see mediocre P5 teams getting in on their reputation - they had numerous chances to show how good they are and were average at best against the teams they played.
Once implemented, this also would help scheduling:The P5 teams would want to have a few more difficult non-conference games to be ready for conference play rather than the cupcake scheduling that is so prevalent right now. Teams would figure out that playing 1 or 2 true road games in non-conference play would get them more ready to go on the road in conference.
Requiring a .500 record or better in the Big 12, where you're literally playing top 50 opponents almost every night isn't even the same as going .500 in the Pac 12, so while you can say it would keep mediocre P5 programs out, chances are these schools wouldn't be replaced by mid-majors, they'd just be replaced by other power schools who did meet the conference record requirements, because a lot of their leagues now have imbalanced scheduling where some teams have an easier conference schedule than others. I also believe it wouldn't give those programs incentive to schedule road games against mid-major programs because rather than arriving beaten up physically and mentally into their conference slate, coaches would want their guys confident and well rested, because conference play is the real grind of the season.
Programs with 9-9 records (or better) in Power conferences who didn't make the tournament
Nebraska - 13-5 in the Big Ten
USC - 12-6 in the Pac 12
Utah - 11-7 in the Pac 12
Stanford - 11-7 in the Pac 12
Oregon - 10-8 in the Pac 12
Washington - 10-8 in the Pac 12
Penn State - 9-9 in the Big Ten
Marquette - 9-9 in the Big East
Louisville - 9-9 in the ACC
Mississippi St - 9-9 in the SEC
Teams with sub .500 conference records who did make the tournament:
Arizona State
Oklahoma
Texas
Syracuse
Alabama
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 04, 2018, 07:49:48 AMRequiring a .500 record or better in the Big 12, where you're literally playing top 50 opponents almost every night isn't even the same as going .500 in the Pac 12, so while you can say it would keep mediocre P5 programs out, chances are these schools wouldn't be replaced by mid-majors, they'd just be replaced by other power schools who did meet the conference record requirements
IrishDawg, I appreciate your comments. I agree that the Big12 is a great conference, with very good opponents every night. Yet Oklahoma got in to the tournament after going 2-8 in their final 10 games, including a first round loss in the Big12 tournament. BTW, Oklahoma was a 10 seed, and Loyola was an 11 seed.
Because of the strength of the Big12, I'm OK with a .500 record in conference play to be eligible for the tournament. Yet this is an eligibility criteria, not a guaranteed invitation - the selection committee would still have to pick from among the best eligible teams.
To continue the example, if the five teams you listed did NOT make the tournament, not all five will be mid-majors. Perhaps Nebraska, USC and Utah get selected. Yet two excellent mid-majors also get in. Consider St. Marys (28-5, 16-2 WCC and an RPI of 40 as of Selection Sunday) would also get in, as does Middle Tennessee (23-7, 16-2 CUSA and an RPI of 33 on Selection Sunday). Now, I haven't looked at all of the possible permutations, or if these are the best 5 teams to replace them. All this does is open more doors for deserving teams as a chance to play in the tournament.
Quote from: valpo95 on October 06, 2018, 06:40:27 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 04, 2018, 07:49:48 AMRequiring a .500 record or better in the Big 12, where you're literally playing top 50 opponents almost every night isn't even the same as going .500 in the Pac 12, so while you can say it would keep mediocre P5 programs out, chances are these schools wouldn't be replaced by mid-majors, they'd just be replaced by other power schools who did meet the conference record requirements
IrishDawg, I appreciate your comments. I agree that the Big12 is a great conference, with very good opponents every night. Yet Oklahoma got in to the tournament after going 2-8 in their final 10 games, including a first round loss in the Big12 tournament. BTW, Oklahoma was a 10 seed, and Loyola was an 11 seed.
Because of the strength of the Big12, I'm OK with a .500 record in conference play to be eligible for the tournament. Yet this is an eligibility criteria, not a guaranteed invitation - the selection committee would still have to pick from among the best eligible teams.
To continue the example, if the five teams you listed did NOT make the tournament, not all five will be mid-majors. Perhaps Nebraska, USC and Utah get selected. Yet two excellent mid-majors also get in. Consider St. Marys (28-5, 16-2 WCC and an RPI of 40 as of Selection Sunday) would also get in, as does Middle Tennessee (23-7, 16-2 CUSA and an RPI of 33 on Selection Sunday). Now, I haven't looked at all of the possible permutations, or if these are the best 5 teams to replace them. All this does is open more doors for deserving teams as a chance to play in the tournament.
Really if you look at the NIT seeding, you would see who the next 5 teams would be, and if we used your criteria, it'd be some combination of:
St. Mary's
USC
Utah
Louisville
Marquette
MTSU would have been close, but would still likely be out. I appreciate the discussion even if I don't agree with everything that is being said. I also agree with you on Oklahoma. They basically had the same rating as Rhode Island, another at-large team that I don't believe should have made the tournament. Loyola was six spots ahead of Oklahoma going into the tournament on kenpom, so I agree that if we're seeding those two teams, Loyola should have been ahead of Oklahoma, but not by more than Oklahoma was ahead of them on the seed lines.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Steve McClain is shady...
https://twitter.com/HoopDirt/status/1051981877467389957
All of the major programs are funneling $ under the table to their elite recruits.
https://twitter.com/br_CBB/status/1052336011760599040
Good article
https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/1052167950189416448
Thank God we're in the Valley. The Horizon is terrible.
https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/1054109427261997060
Preseason Kenpom Rankings:
MVC 10
OVC 24
Earth to Belmont! Come in Belmont! This is your program's future best interests calling. Do you read me?
Quote from: VU2014 on October 21, 2018, 03:41:59 PM
Thank God we're in the Valley. The Horizon is terrible.
https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/1054109427261997060
True - but in the Valley Valpo also has a lot tougher competition for that tourney spot. Valpo's rated 6th in the preseason ratings with a projected conference record of 9-9, while in the Horizon League they'd have the 2nd best rating, with really only 2 other teams (Wright State and NKU) in their same realm this year. If Valpo where in the HL instead of IUPUI, the Horizon league would be 3 spots higher in the league rankings. MVC ranking wouldn't really change.
As for Belmont and Murray State, since those are the popular adds to the league (Belmont's also the league favorite by a decent margin according to Kenpom), their additions would move the MVC's rating number up, but only marginally (by maybe 0.2 points), which suggests they aren't really getting the league more revenue in terms of tourney bids.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 21, 2018, 04:27:29 PM
Preseason Kenpom Rankings:
MVC 10
OVC 24
Earth to Belmont! Come in Belmont! This is your program's future best interests calling. Do you read me?
In the MVC, they'd be the 4th highest rated team in the kenpom preseason ratings, with a ton of teams going after a single tournament bid in most years. In the OVC, they basically have one team (Murray State) that they're competing with each year for a tourney, or at least an NIT bid. The MVC is undoubtedly a better league with a better tournament pedigree, but when you can tout to recruits that you get to the tournament or NIT most years vs. we're in a league whose representative (and it wouldn't be them most years) goes to the tournament with a slightly better seed line, I think for them it's splitting hairs which is really better for their program's future best interests, and most people have egos and want to be able to say it's their school rather than their league doing these good things.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 22, 2018, 08:22:15 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 21, 2018, 03:41:59 PM
Thank God we're in the Valley. The Horizon is terrible.
https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/1054109427261997060
True - but in the Valley Valpo also has a lot tougher competition for that tourney spot. Valpo's rated 6th in the preseason ratings with a projected conference record of 9-9, while in the Horizon League they'd have the 2nd best rating, with really only 2 other teams (Wright State and NKU) in their same realm this year. If Valpo where in the HL instead of IUPUI, the Horizon league would be 3 spots higher in the league rankings. MVC ranking wouldn't really change.
As for Belmont and Murray State, since those are the popular adds to the league (Belmont's also the league favorite by a decent margin according to Kenpom), their additions would move the MVC's rating number up, but only marginally (by maybe 0.2 points), which suggests they aren't really getting the league more revenue in terms of tourney bids.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 21, 2018, 04:27:29 PM
Preseason Kenpom Rankings:
MVC 10
OVC 24
Earth to Belmont! Come in Belmont! This is your program's future best interests calling. Do you read me?
In the MVC, they'd be the 4th highest rated team in the kenpom preseason ratings, with a ton of teams going after a single tournament bid in most years. In the OVC, they basically have one team (Murray State) that they're competing with each year for a tourney, or at least an NIT bid. The MVC is undoubtedly a better league with a better tournament pedigree, but when you can tout to recruits that you get to the tournament or NIT most years vs. we're in a league whose representative (and it wouldn't be them most years) goes to the tournament with a slightly better seed line, I think for them it's splitting hairs which is really better for their program's future best interests, and most people have egos and want to be able to say it's their school rather than their league doing these good things.
Belmont probably has a better chance getting to the NCAA tourney in the OVC, but there are other factors to consider. For example, Valpo's two recent conference moves were huge in financial terms. They left the Mid-Con/Summit when that league was one-and-done in the tournament every year to join a Horizon League that sent multiple teams and gathered multiple wins during Valpo's 1st four seasons there. Once the Horizon went down the toilet and became one-and-done in the tourney for 6 straight years, Valpo joined the MVC and in Year 1 gets a split of the money Loyola earned for the Final Four run. Perfect timing!
Beyond that, playing in a conference with better teams brings more national attention and provides more interesting conference games for your fans.
I know we like to take shots at the HL and what it's become and at some of its members and I'm as guilty as anyone of this but there is so much "There but for the grace of God go I" level luck involved in our call up to the Valley. These facts are not lost on me and are never far from my mind when I think about how far we've come. I am in no way saying that VU didn't earn their spot nor am I attempting to besmirch the effort and commitment that all of this has required but one of the main ingredients involved was timing. If there had been a massive realignment event in 07 that affected the MVC it is highly likely that Milwaukee who we now thumb our noses at and regard as a dumpster fire or Butler or both would have been called up, meaning no share in the deep Butler runs for Valpo no rival to cut our teeth against as we moved to the HL and a watered down likely one bid league we may or may not have come to dominate. If the MVC moves happen even 2-3 years sooner than they did when Valpo was still very much in the process of building their case (Wichita State had been making noise about leaving for awhile I think it even predated Creighton's departure) it is very likely that Murray State would have received much greater consideration. We are fortunate and blessed to be where we are and we should always remember that. I am glad beyond measure that we have seized every opportunity we have been given. The reminders in this post are as much for myself as anyone else.
I take three things from the list.
1. As stated by someone else, very glad to be in a better league. Glad the team made the switch.
2. Seems like there are several conferences geographically close to MVC, with similar ratings. I'd be on the phone with them to set up an annual challenge for scheduling purposes. Maybe ambitious, but I'd like to see at least two challenges.
3. Horizon's slide is sad/unfortunate, and I don't see it turning around. The problem with that conference is that it is predominantly comprised of commuter schools. Commuter schools just don't have large followings. They just don't. That means that there are not a lot of alumni league-wide who care about the outcome of the games or the seasons. If people don't care for a long while, then things will decline. Based on that, it seems that the decline started with Butler's exit, and continued with Loyola and VU's exits (i.e., destination schools), and was exasperated with IUPUI's entrance. I don't like to see anyone or entity not be successful, but I just don't see how the HL turns it around in the current environment of overall apathy. Seems that it will be worse for them. Very unfortunate.
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 22, 2018, 02:41:55 PM
Belmont probably has a better chance getting to the NCAA tourney in the OVC, but there are other factors to consider. For example, Valpo's two recent conference moves were huge in financial terms. They left the Mid-Con/Summit when that league was one-and-done in the tournament every year to join a Horizon League that sent multiple teams and gathered multiple wins during Valpo's 1st four seasons there. Once the Horizon went down the toilet and became one-and-done in the tourney for 6 straight years, Valpo joined the MVC and in Year 1 gets a split of the money Loyola earned for the Final Four run. Perfect timing!
Beyond that, playing in a conference with better teams brings more national attention and provides more interesting conference games for your fans.
Was it really huge in financial terms though? For example - Loyola's run this year nets the MVC $8.5M, which sounds like quite a bit. If they divvy it up equally between the schools and the league office, that's 11 shares divided equally comes to $775,000 per school to be paid out over 6 years, which is just $129,000 per year, per school. Don't get me wrong, there is value in it, but given that the payout for Valpo in the Horizon League was roughly the same in its last year of the Horizon as it will be in the MVC next year, it's good that Valpo left the Horizon when they did, but the funds coming into the program haven't really changed going from league to league.
I also agree that the games in the MVC should matter more to fans, even in a bad season, and I would guess next year at least for the Loyola game it will, but Valpo's attendance bump seems to be more related to the team's performance rather than what league the team's in.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 22, 2018, 07:39:16 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 22, 2018, 02:41:55 PM
Belmont probably has a better chance getting to the NCAA tourney in the OVC, but there are other factors to consider. For example, Valpo's two recent conference moves were huge in financial terms. They left the Mid-Con/Summit when that league was one-and-done in the tournament every year to join a Horizon League that sent multiple teams and gathered multiple wins during Valpo's 1st four seasons there. Once the Horizon went down the toilet and became one-and-done in the tourney for 6 straight years, Valpo joined the MVC and in Year 1 gets a split of the money Loyola earned for the Final Four run. Perfect timing!
Beyond that, playing in a conference with better teams brings more national attention and provides more interesting conference games for your fans.
Was it really huge in financial terms though? For example - Loyola's run this year nets the MVC $8.5M, which sounds like quite a bit. If they divvy it up equally between the schools and the league office, that's 11 shares divided equally comes to $775,000 per school to be paid out over 6 years, which is just $129,000 per year, per school. Don't get me wrong, there is value in it, but given that the payout for Valpo in the Horizon League was roughly the same in its last year of the Horizon as it will be in the MVC next year, it's good that Valpo left the Horizon when they did, but the funds coming into the program haven't really changed going from league to league.
I also agree that the games in the MVC should matter more to fans, even in a bad season, and I would guess next year at least for the Loyola game it will, but Valpo's attendance bump seems to be more related to the team's performance rather than what league the team's in.
You missed the point. What is the impact going forward as in what would have Valpo's share of the Horizon's League's piece be in comparison to the Valley's?
My first instinct is to say that this would be very bad for mid-major basketball but maybe I'm wrong.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/player-compensation-lawsuit-vs-ncaa-could-usher-in-new-round-of-conference-realignment/
Would be awesome if we could stay in it but I can't see how this will be allowed since Valpo and Illinois State are both in the MVC.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1054783476208148481
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 23, 2018, 02:13:13 PM
Would be awesome if we could stay in it but I can't see how this will be allowed since Valpo and Illinois State are both in the MVC.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1054783476208148481
If they didn't already know that before announcing the lineup then someone related to the Paradise Jam must be really stupid, after all we have been an MVC member for 15 months now. They must have some workaround in mind.
Some articles that may affect realignment in the future:
UT-Arlington kicking around the idea of starting football (Note: it's a longshot).
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/collegesports/2018/10/25/exclusive-ut-arlington-considering-reviving-football-program-30-years-after-disbanded
More UCONN to Big East chatter (Personally, I think this one will eventually happen)
https://twitter.com/TheUConnBlog/status/1055835299157303297
https://twitter.com/NJHoopsHaven/status/1055830334800121856
Rumor has it that Greg Kampe was the one who posted his bail lol. This guy screams Oakland transfer candidate.
Side Note: this guy is a former Illinois State player.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1055924263159513089
WAC considering starting FCS Football. They're conducting a feasibility study on it. This could touch off a pretty significant round of realignment that may affect many low and mid major conferences. This would most likely primarily affect the Southland Big Sky and perhaps the Summit League if it happens but you have to wonder if the more established\higher potential basketball programs want to share a conference with a bunch of startups. This could get the attention of leagues like the WCC MVC SL and HL if the top schools bolt.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/10/31/mike-woodbury-prep-school-outburst-player/
fascinating and depressing article about prep schools and international recruitment
Quote from: crusader05 on November 01, 2018, 11:04:23 AM
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/10/31/mike-woodbury-prep-school-outburst-player/
fascinating and depressing article about prep schools and international recruitment
I get that Rob Dauster (who was really upset that the defendants in the Adidas scandal were found guilty) is making a loose connection between the Rice Commission's suggestion and adoption of the NCAA to give schools more power in the recruitment vs. AAU coaches by sponsoring camps, but don't think that AAU coaches can't impact a player's recruitment negatively or can be vindictive crapbags. There is also no way that the NCAA (which isn't equipped to even monitor all schools at the collegiate level) can be expected to reasonably be able to closely monitor all of the prep schools around the country as well once they've passed their initial inspections.
The issue in this story isn't the NCAA, it's this d-hole coach who likes to bully himself into feeling important over younger players (because it's not just foreign players who can get hosed in this experience), and the schools themselves, which are often are run by people committing fraud and stealing money from these families. There have also been stories in the past in which the NCAA gets blamed because a student goes to a prep school which hasn't been approved under the guise that they will be, and then it's the NCAA's fault for not granting the player their eligibility (Emmanuel Mudiay).
This story is yet another horrifying example of how unqualified cowards somehow are placed in charge of developing young people in their formative years and the bad things that can result from that. I sincerely hope this guy is fired and never given another coaching job again.
MWC-A10 challenge headed towards official status.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1058335538304966656
Does this preclude a challenge match for the MVC against either one? Seems like it. But maybe doing multiple challenges would help all of these conferences.
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 04, 2018, 02:47:34 PM
Does this preclude a challenge match for the MVC against either one? Seems like it. But maybe doing multiple challenges would help all of these conferences.
I'm getting that sense but I agree that a Challenge between all 3 of the Conferences would make sense with the Power 5 tightening up their non-conference schedule. There is less opportunities for quality OOC games so we need to start playing each other more. They can't view it as a bracket buster scenario. The Committee should also be giving more respect to caliber of these conferences.
https://twitter.com/JohnGasaway/status/1058901630119305216?s=20
Quote from: VU2014 on November 04, 2018, 05:21:54 PM
https://twitter.com/JohnGasaway/status/1058901630119305216?s=20
From here on out...it's NOTHING BUT NET to the NCAA!! (Unless the number of zeros are 6 or greater on the check.)
Rough start for Scott. Hope he gets things turned around there quick.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083374
2 years Probation and 47 wins vacated by BYU
https://www.ksl.com/article/46424017/ncaa-requires-byu-basketball-to-vacate-47-wins-other-penalties-for-role-in-nick-emery-case
I know that wins are being vacated but how are losses effected? It would be disappointing for 2 BYU losses to be discarded from the budding "Lutherans vs. Mormons" rivalry.
I believe only their wins are affected. Their losses stand.
I know there's a long time between now and our game in College Station but maybe we've got a shot at stealing one:
UC-Irvine 74 Texas A&M 73
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401084854
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 10, 2018, 12:06:48 AM
I know there's a long time between now and our game in College Station but maybe we've got a shot at stealing one:
UC-Irvine 74 Texas A&M 73
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401084854
Buffalo also beat West Virginia at West Virginia last night 99-94
Quote from: IrishDawg on November 10, 2018, 04:54:09 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 10, 2018, 12:06:48 AM
I know there's a long time between now and our game in College Station but maybe we've got a shot at stealing one:
UC-Irvine 74 Texas A&M 73
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401084854
Buffalo also beat West Virginia at West Virginia last night 99-94
WVU, A&M and GW all racking up early losses can't be good for Valpo's SOS.
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 10, 2018, 08:47:55 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on November 10, 2018, 04:54:09 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 10, 2018, 12:06:48 AM
I know there's a long time between now and our game in College Station but maybe we've got a shot at stealing one:
UC-Irvine 74 Texas A&M 73
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=401084854
Buffalo also beat West Virginia at West Virginia last night 99-94
WVU, A&M and GW all racking up early losses can't be good for Valpo's SOS.
You're likely right, but not sure it matters this year.
https://twitter.com/StangelJamie/status/1061337395554123782
What Wins Are Worth
Surprising March Madness runs help underdogs raise their profiles — and their bottom lines
By Brian Burnsed
Great field for Bradley...
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1062812401718960131
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 15, 2018, 02:48:17 AM
Great field for Bradley...
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1062812401718960131
Kansas State and Northwestern are both losing a lot after this year. It's not a bad field, but I would be surprised if either of those teams make the tournament next season.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 09, 2018, 08:10:12 PM
I believe only their wins are affected. Their losses stand.
Exactly. Valpo still earned their wins despite the opposition team cheating. Could you imagine how fast that rule would end due to high major teams objections if it were the rule that winning teams lost their wins when the losing team was caught cheating.
First 2 game win streak in over 20 years... Let that sink in... :-X
https://twitter.com/TheMacIrvinFire/status/1068991701690273792
Both came against Non-D1s.
https://twitter.com/ChiStateCougars/status/1069048577136185345
hate to be a debbie downer....but those aren't D1 schools they beat.
Badgers with a big win over Iowa.
I believe the only thing the NCAA can do that would ultimately be fair to all levels of teams is to expand the Big Dance field. If it truly can be argued every year that 4-6 mid-majors and 1 or 2 high-majors are being left out then expand the field by 8 - 10 teams for a total of 76 to 78 teams. That adds fun to the bracket challenges and costs very little to the NCAA in booking an additional sight. The additional sight must be like Dayton where they are middle of the country and the city has many fans that would love attending games of any college teams that earned their spot in the tournament, i.e. Indy, Louisville, St. Louis, slightly smaller cities near those bigger cities, etc.
Former Oakland star arrested for domestic violence
https://twitter.com/SIChrisMannix/status/1069681134299168769
Quote from: bbtds on November 16, 2018, 05:08:46 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 09, 2018, 08:10:12 PM
I believe only their wins are affected. Their losses stand.
Exactly. Valpo still earned their wins despite the opposition team cheating. Could you imagine how fast that rule would end due to high major teams objections if it were the rule that winning teams lost their wins when the losing team was caught cheating.
Great point.
Looks like things are about to get interesting on the realignment front:
BE signs extension with MSG:
http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/12/09/big-east-msg-to-announce-extension-of-big-east-tournament/
BE Commissioner Val Ackerman on expsnsion:
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1071812606938243073?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1071812606938243073&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-865850.html
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1071812795807744001?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1071812795807744001&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-865850.html
AAC Considering GOR:
https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2018/12/10/Colleges/AAC.aspx
Here's what I think all of this means: I think it all points to UCONN returning to the Big East very soon. Think about it.
The conference just reupped its tournament in Madison Square Garden in UCONN's backyard
The Commissioner of the Big East talked about how expansion could help the conference with scheduling but stressed the importance of retaining the double round robin
The very next day talk of the AAC attempting to convince its schools to sign a Grant of Rights to restrict movement leaks and under the terms of the agreement UCONN stands to receive secondary status in terms of revenue distribution. As the most recognizable basketball and athletic brand in the conference except perhaps for Navy and the only state flagship school in the conference this has to be very insulting for them.
I can't see the AAC mending fences here. I think the Huskies are gone football issue or not.
More smoke that indicates fracturing in the AAC.
https://theathletic.com/706227/2018/12/11/big-12-expansion-ucf-football/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 11, 2018, 03:34:01 PM
More smoke that indicates fracturing in the AAC.
https://theathletic.com/706227/2018/12/11/big-12-expansion-ucf-football/
The article also chides the Big-XII for not going to 11 schools when they had the chance. Echos of the MVC not bringing the Racers on board with Valpo?
South Dakota state just dropped 90 on Savannah state. In the First Half !
What is unusual about that? Their body bag football contracts specify that Savannah State "shall allow a minumum of 40 points in each half." :rotfl:
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 11, 2018, 04:15:25 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 11, 2018, 03:34:01 PM
More smoke that indicates fracturing in the AAC.
https://theathletic.com/706227/2018/12/11/big-12-expansion-ucf-football/
The article also chides the Big-XII for not going to 11 schools when they had the chance. Echos of the MVC not bringing the Racers on board with Valpo?
If the Big 12 maintains a nine game conference schedule, the addition of UCF means that the round robin becomes disrupted and someone isn't going to play Texas or Oklahoma every year anymore.
If I'm Iowa State, does that help or hurt?
Doesn't matter. Here's a big bucket of cold water on most major realignment. If anything, this would STRENGTHEN the AAC as their top team could potentially be good enough to qualify under this alignment and the Big XII would likely hold together under this making the AAC signing the GOR more likely. They might even consider expanding to take the top of the MWC.
https://theathletic.com/708538/2018/12/ ... m-support/
Pay for play? what could this mean to us and schools like us and to our conference? Do you think that we or the MVC will be affected?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/lawsuit-has-conferences-quietly-preparing-for-the-likelihood-of-compensating-players/?irgwc=1
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 12, 2018, 10:48:25 PM
Pay for play? what could this mean to us and schools like us and to our conference? Do you think that we or the MVC will be affected?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/lawsuit-has-conferences-quietly-preparing-for-the-likelihood-of-compensating-players/?irgwc=1
Not in a significant way. That's the beauty of having no scholarships for football. You only have to worry about paying 13 guys vs 98 (85 football and 13 basketball). Even for those leagues with football, like the MAC, this won't change the level of recruits they get.
Quote from: IrishDawg on December 13, 2018, 02:37:07 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 12, 2018, 10:48:25 PMPay for play? what could this mean to us and schools like us and to our conference? Do you think that we or the MVC will be affected? https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/lawsuit-has-conferences-quietly-preparing-for-the-likelihood-of-compensating-players/?irgwc=1
Not in a significant way. That's the beauty of having no scholarships for football. You only have to worry about paying 13 guys vs 98 (85 football and 13 basketball). Even for those leagues with football, like the MAC, this won't change the level of recruits they get.
Even in basketball and other Olympic sports?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 13, 2018, 05:43:46 AMYou only have to worry about paying 13 guys
Make that 26. No way the guys get paid the the women don't. Title 9.
I wonder if this means we'll have some new friends in the Pioneer League which in turn might open up some interesting opportunities for the MVC olympic sports realignment wise.
Quote from: vu72 on December 13, 2018, 05:54:40 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 13, 2018, 05:43:46 AMYou only have to worry about paying 13 guys
Make that 26. No way the guys get paid the the women don't. Title 9.
I'm not sure Title IX would apply here, given that they're talking about additional compensation beyond their scholarships that would then amount to them being employees of the University, and coaches of male teams generally are paid at a much higher rate than coaches of female teams.
Could this decision threaten the very existence of womens college sports? That would never fly nor should it. I hope the judge considers any potential Title IX ramifications very carefully before she rules. That could potentially undermine the whole case or open up a whole new series of lawsuits. This truly could be a Pandora's Box with unending consequences that could threaten the financial health of institutions and athletic programs. I don't know which side I should be rooting for.I understand the idea of compensating the athletes because of all the money they bring in but at the same time they're there to be students too and a debt free degree is pretty darn great compensation if you ask me. I really cannot conceive of what the world of college athletics will be like if this lawsuit is successful and that worries me a little bit. I guess one question I have is which system is more likely to help schools like Valpo competitive at the highest attainable levels in both mens and womens sports?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 13, 2018, 06:26:44 AM
Could this decision threaten the very existence of womens college sports? That would never fly nor should it. I hope the judge considers any potential Title IX ramifications very carefully before she rules. That could potentially undermine the whole case or open up a whole new series of lawsuits. This truly could be a Pandora's Box with unending consequences that could threaten the financial health of institutions and athletic programs. I don't know which side I should be rooting for.I understand the idea of compensating the athletes because of all the money they bring in but at the same time they're there to be students too and a debt free degree is pretty darn great compensation if you ask me. I really cannot conceive of what the world of college athletics will be like if this lawsuit is successful and that worries me a little bit. I guess one question I have is which system is more likely to help schools like Valpo competitive at the highest attainable levels in both mens and womens sports?
No. This wouldn't threaten the existence of women's college sports. Title IX would still apply in terms of giving an equal amount of women athletes the chance to compete for the school and receive scholarships to do so. If anything, you'd see other men's olympic sports get cut that weren't financially viable so the University would remain in compliance with Title IX.
I wouldn't worry too much about how this will impact Valpo or the majority of other schools. The biggest changes will be at the top of college sports in the power 5 programs. What would be interesting to see is how coaches at big-time programs and universities would handle the new power dynamic in which the players were compensated.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 12, 2018, 07:43:44 PM
Doesn't matter. Here's a big bucket of cold water on most major realignment. If anything, this would STRENGTHEN the AAC as their top team could potentially be good enough to qualify under this alignment and the Big XII would likely hold together under this making the AAC signing the GOR more likely. They might even consider expanding to take the top of the MWC.
https://theathletic.com/708538/2018/12/ ... m-support/
The Big 12 will distribute about $35M per school this year. Talk to me when the AAC achieves anything close. Until then, that's all the strength you need to know.
Things are beginning to get active again on the Realignment Front. Looks like Augustana (SD) is headed to D1 and the Summit League. My suspicion is that they will either drop football or go non-scholarship and repurpose the football monies into starting other sports to fill in some gaps for the SL. This could be a tacit admission that PFW is gone with Robert Morris possibly following (hence the Merrimack to the NEC announcement. I'm guessing that these teams are announcing their intention to leave quietly so that the conferences can get their house in order before it's scramble time. This could be LeCrone's big expansion move or it could be a response to another move from the MVC.
It will be interesting to see what Western Illinois does in response to this. They can't be too terribly happy about the conference becoming even more Dakota Centric. I expect that they might strike up discussions with the OVC where they would fit much better with EIU SEMO SIUE UT-Martin and Murray State if they stay. Assuming no other movement it would give the OVC a 13\10 split which they can make 14\10 by adding Lipscomb. I'm not sure how Belmont would react to this but it's important to note that the two schools did share a conference for nine years in the Atlanric Sun from 2003-2012 and play an annual in-season home and home. They may be even more attractive now given their recent success on the basketball court.
This could be really concerning for the MVC's pursuit of Murray State because adding a close competitive football team and another rising basketball program might just be enough to placate the Racers and give them renewed optimism concerning their lot in the OVC. Furthermore, WIU leaving for the OVC eliminates the need for the MVFC to balance out the North Dakota addition unless Robert Morris also joins AFTER WIU leaves which they may but it's far from a guarantee.
http://espn991.com/augustana-university-to-make-the-jump-to-division-i/
https://www.argusleader.com/story/sports/college/augustana-university/2018/12/13/augustana-university-vikings-d-1-division-sioux-falls-college-sports/2307262002/
https://twitter.com/DBrownMidcoSN/status/1073387966247174144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fusdcoyotesports.proboards.com%2Fthread%2F2163%2Fsummit-league-expansion%3Fpage%3D21
The PFL Fan Board has been speculating about Augustana for some time. They are a very good D-II fb program with a great stadium and support facilities. Going non-scholarship should not be a recruiting handicap for them. Theywould make an immediate impact in the PFL.
A take on this from a few years ago:
https://www.bloggersodear.com/2011/9/21/2439658/ncaa-boiling-point-our-conference-on-the-left-is-now-our-conference (https://www.bloggersodear.com/2011/9/21/2439658/ncaa-boiling-point-our-conference-on-the-left-is-now-our-conference)
A bit dated but potentially relevant as it concerns a midwestern school:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/03/20/emu-cut-4-varsity-sports-after-spring/440968002/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 17, 2018, 12:08:26 AM
A bit dated but potentially relevant as it concerns a midwestern school:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/03/20/emu-cut-4-varsity-sports-after-spring/440968002/
Really unfortunate news. SIU made some significant cuts to their athletics programs recently. Valpo has 19 sports teams and 21 if you count Cheerleading and the Crusaderettes. I've been wondering if it's sustainable financially over the long-term. The only program that VU probably sees a financial return on is maybe the men's basketball program and football team because it's non-scholarship. It's a 9-10 split between men's and women's sports. Valparaiso is a very unique small private institution that offers so many different sports.
Anybody think it's possible they could leave the MAC? And if so where could they go?
Here's some speculation from me:
If it happens I'm sure they'd go to the HL and their football team if it still exists would probably go to the MVFC or Pioneer League. Could a trade of YSU and Eastern Michigan make sense? I can't imagine the conference wanting ANOTHER Ohio school and I can't imagine EMU being too thrilled about giving up the main branding edge they have over UDM and Oakland .
Other candidates could be UMASS EKU Illinois State UNI and Missouri State but I can't see any of them making the jump due to the finances and increased travel involved. UCONN could be a football fit if they go to the BE but then they'd need a basketball member. I can't see anyone in the MVC making that jump. Maybe a HL team like UIC or Milwaukee?
Great article on scheduling from Winthrop's perspective. Should we outside the top seven conferences be playing non D1s? Do we have a choice? Yes but we all need to work together. A series against Winthrop wouldn't be a bad series by the way.
https://www.heraldonline.com/sports/college/big-south/winthrop-university/article222906070.html
Quote from: VU2014 on December 17, 2018, 12:27:17 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 17, 2018, 12:08:26 AM
A bit dated but potentially relevant as it concerns a midwestern school:
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/03/20/emu-cut-4-varsity-sports-after-spring/440968002/
Really unfortunate news. SIU made some significant cuts to their athletics programs recently. Valpo has 19 sports teams and 21 if you count Cheerleading and the Crusaderettes. I've been wondering if it's sustainable financially over the long-term. The only program that VU probably sees a financial return on is maybe the men's basketball program and football team because it's non-scholarship. It's a 9-10 split between men's and women's sports. Valparaiso is a very unique small private institution that offers so many different sports.
Track & Field has a healthy chunk of tuition paying athletes...
Glad Track and Field has scholarships. That would be one way to improve the football team which is non-scholarship. Miami did it when they lost football scholarships and made a great run with track and field scholarship players.
Quote from: tiny707 on December 17, 2018, 09:24:39 AM
Glad Track and Field has scholarships. That would be one way to improve the football team which is non-scholarship. Miami did it when they lost football scholarships and made a great run with track and field scholarship players.
No person receiving any sort of athletics scholarship can play football.
Quote from: vusupporter on December 17, 2018, 09:29:48 AM
Quote from: tiny707 on December 17, 2018, 09:24:39 AM
Glad Track and Field has scholarships. That would be one way to improve the football team which is non-scholarship. Miami did it when they lost football scholarships and made a great run with track and field scholarship players.
No person receiving any sort of athletics scholarship can play football.
Not quite sure about that, but the logic certainly makes sense. See my other comment below.
Quote from: tiny707 on December 17, 2018, 09:24:39 AM
Glad Track and Field has scholarships. That would be one way to improve the football team which is non-scholarship. Miami did it when they lost football scholarships and made a great run with track and field scholarship players.
I think you missed Fieldgoodie's point. There are
virtually no T&F athletic scholarships (perhaps a couple "full scholarship equivalents" that are distributes among the entire squad). Valpo T&F athletes pay tuition and compete at a D-I level with aid based pretty much entirely on financial need.
Yes
We have many sports teams
But few of those are full scholarship
Tons of money bringing athletes into school
Athletics are just an extension of student recruitment for the school
$$$$$$$$$$$$
Trouble in the Summit League? One Denver fan thinks so
https://twitter.com/LetsGoDU/status/1073635016029233153
https://twitter.com/LetsGoDU/status/1073635173957279744
https://twitter.com/LetsGoDU/status/1073636350597971969
https://twitter.com/LetsGoDU/status/1073693971229102080
https://twitter.com/LetsGoDU/status/1073694319985475584
https://twitter.com/LetsGoDU/status/1073694567646535682
Exhibit A on why P5 teams don't go on the road.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083774
NBA-themed but nonetheless an interesting study of how the game is evolving that will likely trickle down into the college ranks soon if it hasn't already.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25559428/the-4-point-line-just-beginning-nba-latest-trend
That Denver fan needs to look at a map. Augustana is in Rock Island, Illinois. Not in the Dakotas.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 19, 2018, 08:49:05 AM
That Denver fan needs to look at a map. Augustana is in Rock Island, Illinois. Not in the Dakotas.
Not so. This is Augustana University, Souix Falls, SD. You are thinking D-III Augustana College.
But the map is incorrect in one regard -- where is PFW?
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 19, 2018, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on December 19, 2018, 08:49:05 AM
That Denver fan needs to look at a map. Augustana is in Rock Island, Illinois. Not in the Dakotas.
Not so. This is Augustana University, Souix Falls, SD. You are thinking D-III Augustana College.
But the map is incorrect in one regard -- where is PFW?
:o :rotfl:
Quote from: FWalum on December 19, 2018, 11:02:27 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 19, 2018, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on December 19, 2018, 08:49:05 AM
That Denver fan needs to look at a map. Augustana is in Rock Island, Illinois. Not in the Dakotas.
Not so. This is Augustana University, Souix Falls, SD. You are thinking D-III Augustana College.
But the map is incorrect in one regard -- where is PFW?
:o :rotfl:
Gone to another conference (presumably the HL). I think it's a pretty open secret at this point that PFW is moving even though nothing has been announced.
They will always be IPFW. Just one of those things they won't be able shake off
Wait. How about Ft. Wayne State University (FWSU). Why does a state university have to be attached to either IU or PU to be legitimate?
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 19, 2018, 07:38:07 PM
Wait. How about Ft. Wayne State University (FWSU). Why does a state university have to attached to either IU or PU to be legitimate?
It doesn't.
Signed,
The Cardinals and the Sycamores
Drake beats New Mexico State and San Diego and drops(from 99 to 100)? I've seen enough. The verdict is in: The NET sucks.
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2019/net
Mark Adams agrees
https://www.facebook.com/enthusiadams/posts/2245667842374763?__tn__=K-R
Happening Hoops interview with Mark Adams. A good read. Still don't know why Valpo isn't a part of the Alliance (which Adams confirms). Two freely given games one of them at home and as much effort for the schedule makers as just slapping two non-D1s on there and calling it good. I guarantee the fans will like this more which means higher gate revenue. I really can't see how Valpo loses here.
https://happeninghoops.com/2018/12/30/mark-adams-interview/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 31, 2018, 06:59:39 PM
Still don't know why Valpo isn't a part of the Alliance (which Adams confirms).
a. Valpo doesn't want to pay Adams' fee (he doesn't do this stuff for free)
b. The games he can deliver are games Valpo can (or should be able to) schedule on their own
Paying Adams to deliver two games with like schools is wonderful, but if you think those games will replace the non-DI games, you're probably going to be disappointed. As Adams points out in the interview, non-DI games are necessary to balance the home/away or win/loss (you pick) schedule imbalance caused when schools like Valpo play 2 or 3 "buy games" to help fund their program.
It's a paid thing? I didn't know that. I thought it was just a consortium of mid major ADs. Then again I did think it was odd how he frequently mentioned himself as a businessman. Guess that was a hint. I've already stated that using non-D1s to compensate for buy games is dumb. All teams should be able to do better. There's no reason why regional D1 teams can't take the place of non-D1s Everyone would be better for it.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 31, 2018, 09:38:55 PM
It's a paid thing? I didn't know that. I thought it was just a consortium of mid major ADs. Then again I did think it was odd how he frequently mentioned himself as a businessman. Guess that was a hint. I've already stated that using non-D1s to compensate for buy games is dumb. All teams should be able to do better. There's no reason why regional D1 teams can't take the place of non-D1s Everyone would be better for it.
I'd be shocked if it wasn't a paid thing for Adams. Otherwise I doubt he'd spend this much time meeting with mid-major ADs and advertising for it through interviews and other articles.
Color me skeptical that these scheduling ideas actually improve seed lines or result in more bids for mid-major leagues. Basically seeds 12-16 (22 bids) are going to be all mid-major programs. Regardless if they're in these scheduling alliances, that's where they are going to get seeded at. If I were a mid-major program, I'd want the "metrics" of these seed lines and what their schedules looked like in terms of wins and losses vs. top whatever teams and how he's going to give us scheduled games that's going to get us there. My guess is when he met with Valpo he wasn't able to provide those assurances, so they declined to be a part of the alliance.
I'd probably be in the wait and see camp too if I didn't have gobs of disposable money laying to pay this guy and hope his idea works.
Quote from: M on January 01, 2019, 10:13:48 AM
I'd probably be in the wait and see camp too if I didn't have gobs of disposable money laying to pay this guy and hope his idea works.
I hadn't thought about the fact that the member schools in this alliance would have to pay Adams for his scheduling services. For a school like Valpo that doesn't have the funds for ARC renovations yet it sounds like there are higher priorities than paying Adams for help with scheduling.
Some of the data is in on the NET and it's not good for mids.
https://www.facebook.com/enthusiadams/posts/2254463378161876?__tn__=K-R
Bryce landed Scotty Pippen's kid
https://twitter.com/spippenjr/status/1083852279369748480
I wonder if we have this in our playbook?
https://twitter.com/KyleNeddenriep/status/1083953026220597248
Bruce is 0-3 in conference play....
With the recruits that he has and continues to get, next year will be his hot seat year.
As long as we get our Vanderbilt home game out of it.
Brock Stull has played 6 minutes and 4 minutes his last 2 games.
He has attempted 23 shots in 14 games.
Quote from: may know on January 13, 2019, 10:59:54 PM
Brock Stull has played 6 minutes and 4 minutes his last 2 games.
He has attempted 23 shots in 14 games.
I'm not sure that's how he imagined his senior season going. He would have been a impact player here. On the bright side he's on a very good minnesota team, on the downside he's the 10th man on the team he hoped to be the 6th man.
Bryce also lost his top recruit for the season who despite that injury is still listed as the 7th pick in the upcoming draft in the last mock draft I saw.
Some very interesting NET vs RPI thoughts:
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/1087045264215629825
I wonder if MVC membership would have helped or hurt Murray State this year.
Pro: Big SOS boost
Con: Lesser margin of victory and greater potential for losses
After their recent loss to Mississippi State I keep seeing more comments about Bryce from Vandy Fans
https://twitter.com/SkipPrince/status/1087027860831903746
Here's another team that is doing a good job turning their season around in conference play.
https://twitter.com/MUHawks/status/1087068114070712320
Quote from: crusader05 on January 20, 2019, 01:41:57 PM
After their recent loss to Mississippi State I keep seeing more comments about Bryce from Vandy Fans
https://twitter.com/SkipPrince/status/1087027860831903746
Vandy fans need to be patient. They have a very young team and they lost their future lottery pick star player after 5 games. Losing isn't fun but he has proven track record as a coach. Look what he did at Vandy his first season with a average sec roster.
While watching Belmont beat Murray I focused on 6'11" Seth Adelsperger from Peru HS. Some of you will remember that we offered him before Derrik but he chose the Bruins instead. He is also a redshirt junior but has played only 188 minutes this year with modest overall numbers. He certainly doesn't look bad but I'm glad things worked out the way that they did. :thumbsup:
Horizon League tourney moving to Indy. So much for motor city madness.
Just as Detroit Mercy was getting better....
The madness lay in moving it to the Motor City in the first place
Not only did it move to Indy but it will be on the same court that IUPUI plays on.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on January 25, 2019, 10:56:10 AM
Horizon League tourney moving to Indy. So much for motor city madness.
The excitement in town (Indy) is overwhelming.
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/12/05/PIND/1865d866-facb-4021-a562-c651dbddb196-Hogsett_at_MLK_Center_JRW04.JPG?width=680&height=510&fit=bounds&auto=webp)
Indy Mayor Hogsett: I thought they said they were going to make a new car in Indy called the Horizon that couldn't be made in Detroit.
No more Motor City Dumpster Fire?
Jeez, LeCrone, if you were just gonna move it to Indy you should have done that seven years ago and Butler may have never left.
(Just an FYI that we are just three years removed from the HL prattling on about the importance of a "neutral site" to help justify moving the tourney from Valpo to Detroit on several months' notice. And now they've moved the tourney... to the home floor of their newest member, in part so the commish and staff don't have to travel. Good god, thank heavens that we have left that stellar management and business acumen in our rear view mirror).
Once again LeCrone bends down and kisses Indy's ring only this time the program he's doing it for hasn't earned such treatment. It's possible that this is a subtle parting shot at Valpo to give the tournament to our replacement but who cares? We have bigger fish to fry as we chase a conference title in the MVC. Go Valpo!!!
I cannot believe that the ADs in that league haven't figured out at this point that the league's decisions are made toward what's best for Jon LeCrone instead of what's best for the league's members as a whole.
can't fault them for trying, i guess you don't know until you try, but it would be annoying to consistently change formats/locations/etc every couple of years. HL is a joke.
The thinking is this is still a neutral court since IUPUI fans don't exist anyway.
Outside of IUPUI all the HL schools would jump ship if they could.
They need to go back to campus sites.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 25, 2019, 09:19:12 PM
Outside of IUPUI all the HL schools would jump ship if they could.
You don't think NKU is happy too?
My uneducated guess is that the league couldn't afford to rent the facilities in Detroit, or anywhere else, so they are having it at one of the team locations in order to help on costs. Maybe, in order to make things more interesting while still utilizing a member location would be to start the tournament at various member locations, and then have the final rounds at the league champion's site. Oh wait ...
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 25, 2019, 04:38:21 PMJeez, LeCrone, if you were just gonna move it to Indy you should have done that seven years ago and Butler may have never left.
Butler left the Horizon for the greater TV money and exposure in the Big East. Butler wasn't going to stay because the HL tournament would be held in Indy. It was a no brainer.
Butler left for the A10. They spent one season there before going to the Big East.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 28, 2019, 01:44:04 PM
Butler left for the A10. They spent one season there before going to the Big East.
Yes, I should have included the one year in the A10. I had forgotten that step.
Yeah the reasoning was the same though and nothing the HL did would have stopped or forestalled it so your point still stands and my rebuttal is really little more than a point of order.
QuoteJeez, LeCrone, if you were just gonna move it to Indy you should have done that seven years ago and Butler may have never left.
Butler left the Horizon for the greater TV money and exposure in the Big East. Butler wasn't going to stay because the HL tournament would be held in Indy. It was a no brainer.
My post was in jest.
(But since we're on the topic, Butler did leave a year earlier than planned because they were in a snit over not being able to host the HL tourney in their lame-duck season).
Some thoughts I posted today about UCONN:
UCONN can either:
Drop football to FCS thereby saving a ton of scholarship cash
Gain the flexibility to cut\add other sports if desired\necessary
Join the Big East thereby saving a ton on travel and receive:
A well-attended tournament in a historic venue right in their backyard
20 games vs the #5 conference full of familiar rivals their fans enjoyed playing against AND
Guaranteed game against the Big 10
Guaranteed game against the Big 12
Which results in a massive boost to SOS and attendance
And take advantage of a media deal greater than or equal to the AAC's best case scenario
OR:
Keep their underperforming money pit of a football program
Keep schlepping all sports to Florida Texas Oklahoma and Kansas
Keep playing an 18 game schedule against a significantly worse conference full of teams that wouldn't even register on the average UCONN fan's radar.
Keep playing their conference tournament in some far-flung location most years that is sparsely attended compared to the Big East
Get no built in P5 games (much harder scheduling more slots to fill)
Pray for the best case scenario on the media deal to hope you can make up the shortfall.
If I'm UCONN's AD facing a $40million shortfall increasing apathy and losses for football and an uncertain basketball future I know the option I'm taking. There might be some open P5 slots but most of those will likely be the Big 12 backfilling. Joining the Big 12 especially if Texas Oklahoma and possibly Kansas are gone doesn't really solve a lot of UCONN's problems even with a larger payout. Travel gets worse for all sports and if they can't compete against the AAC in football now what happens when the bottom of the AAC is removed and replaced with the middle\bottom of the Big 12? Football becomes LESS competitive apathy continues and even grows because even though that basketball league might end up ahead of the Big East some years the fans won't connect with the rivalries and losses continue to mount on the football field and in the ledger especially.
It's past time for UCONN to admit their football failure and take the golden parachute offered by the Big East before they do irreparable damage to their athletic department and their reputation.
It's not that easy for UConn, unfortunately. The school has an agreement with the state regarding the use of the football stadium in Hartford, which was built coinciding with their move up to FBS in 2003. I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but the university could have to re-pay the state a LOT of money -- like tens of millions, from what I was told -- if they bail on that stadium agreement this early. (Also, the AAC is expected to get significantly more than the Big East in their new TV deal later this year -- and they aren't making that much less right now -- not enough to justify a conference move over it).
Also, UConn isn't acting like a program that has any plans of dropping down anytime soon. They have football home games scheduled with NC State, Boston College, Purdue, Illinois and Indiana over the next five seasons, as well as seven-figure buy games at Clemson and Tennessee. They'd be costing themselves a significant amount of revenue by dropping those games.
Omaha it seems is also pissed about Augustana going D1.
https://twitter.com/RedArmyOmaha/status/1055461444760805377
LeCrone and the WAC as well should be listening
Tempers flare
https://twitter.com/BrandonBoles/status/1094462202030014464
UCONN's new president on football:
https://twitter.com/peatonrobb/status/1092848188405542913?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1092848188405542913&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-868770-page-9.html
https://twitter.com/peatonrobb/status/1092849642990170114?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1092849642990170114&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-868770-page-9.html
But the financial realities are stark:
https://twitter.com/uconnfbfacts/status/1093925361166024709?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1093925361166024709&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-868770-page-9.html
https://twitter.com/uconnfbfacts/status/1093926402913722368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1093926402913722368&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-868770-page-9.html
Think of the budget of the women's program at Connecticut and the salaries of their coaches. In reality, college football on the east coast is not as popular as the rest of the US.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 10, 2019, 09:42:03 AM
Think of the budget of the women's program at Connecticut and the salaries of their coaches. In reality, college football on the east coast is not as popular as the rest of the US.
I would say the NORTHEAST opposed to the east coast. There are a lot of popular college programs southeast....Georgia, Virgina Tech, Florida St. Etc. The Northeast has a lot of pro teams 2 in NYC, 1 New England, Philly, DC, Baltimore.
Why would Omaha be angry if the Summit League adds Augustana? Omaha is located on the "I-29 corridor" just a bit south of the Dakotas.
As an aside, my town of Rugby, ND is thrilled by the northward drift of the Summit League. But the name change from Mid-Continent to the Summit League was a sad day here. The location of Rugby, ND is the exact middle of the North American continent.
It's politics more than geography. Schools like Omaha Denver ORU and WIU are concerned about Sanford's ever growing influence over the conference. He gave the SL the land to move the league offices to Sioux Falls he built the Dakotas into athletic behemoths and he is driving the Augustana to D1 bus. The other members probably are starting to get tired of their second class citizenship in the conference
More sobering UCONN Football news:
https://www.ctpost.com/sports/jeffjacobs/article/Jeff-Jacobs-No-matter-how-it-s-spun-Dunn-s-13602673.php
So we just lost a 17-38 coach to a Patriot League loser. The difference? We are in the mid-west and mid-westerners really like their football. New England, except for the Pats, not so much. Betcha we recover faster than UCONN.
Detroit fans would rather be in the MAAC than the HL... Ouch...
https://www.detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4086&sid=bb2719cf103f91ce5f5e6c11ba192a69
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 10, 2019, 10:55:15 AM
As an aside, my town of Rugby, ND is thrilled by the northward drift of the Summit League. But the name change from Mid-Continent to the Summit League was a sad day here. The location of Rugby, ND is the exact middle of the North American continent.
I see it's a "cozy" -9 in Rugby right now. Stay warm!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 13, 2019, 12:21:28 AM
Detroit fans would rather be in the MAAC than the HL... Ouch...
https://www.detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4086&sid=bb2719cf103f91ce5f5e6c11ba192a69
I had to laugh out loud when I read about playing against "transfer criminals"!!!! :rotfl:
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 10, 2019, 03:21:01 PMSo we just lost a 17-38 coach to a Patriot League loser. The difference? We are in the mid-west and mid-westerners really like their football. New England, except for the Pats, not so much. Betcha we recover faster than UCONN.
The Northeast, in general, follows professional sports much more so than collegiate sports. It's not a football vs. other sports issue. It is a professional vs. college issue at least as the overriding reason. Some cities are more geared to one sport over the other and it may also depend on if that city or region is competitive in a given sport at a professional level which will have some bearing on the attention given to it.
Quote from: JD24 on February 13, 2019, 10:59:07 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 10, 2019, 03:21:01 PMSo we just lost a 17-38 coach to a Patriot League loser. The difference? We are in the mid-west and mid-westerners really like their football. New England, except for the Pats, not so much. Betcha we recover faster than UCONN.
The Northeast, in general, follows professional sports much more so than collegiate sports. It's not a football vs. other sports issue. It is a professional vs. college issue at least as the overriding reason. Some cities are more geared to one sport over the other and it may also depend on if that city or region is competitive in a given sport at a professional level which will have some bearing on the attention given to it.
It's exactly the same in Chicago. EVERYTHING is about the Bears, Cubs, Sox and Blackhawks. When March Madness rolls around and the sports radio talking heads feel obligated to talk college basketball, their ignorance is almost funny.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 13, 2019, 12:21:28 AM
Detroit fans would rather be in the MAAC than the HL... Ouch...
https://www.detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4086&sid=bb2719cf103f91ce5f5e6c11ba192a69
LeCrone had a great thing going with the Horizon League but he has really blown it in leading that conference. His problems really started when he didn't do a good job of working out the Butler departure with the BU admins. He seemed so resentful with Butler leaving and even more so when he decided to sue Valpo and the MVC over Valpo leaving. Why would any schools other than lower conference castoffs like IUPUI want to join the HL after that?
Rock chalk perp walk?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/kansas-fears-formal-ncaa-investigation-stemming-from-fbi-case-involving-college-basketball/?irgwc=1&clickid=384x8CxcuxyJTZb0EWQ%3ANRupUkgXcp3gE03Nzk0
AAC close to new media rights deal with ESPN. This will have a huge bearing on the UCONN\BE talk and other realignment moves in the near (pre 2023-2025) term.
https://twitter.com/C_Austin_Cox/status/1098023316072337408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1098023316072337408&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-870838.html
I do not think what happens with the American conference has any bearing on UConn joining the Big East. The Big East is comprised of 10 private schools (nine of which are Catholic), all of which are non-football. They are not going to add a public school unless there is a real crisis - which seems unlikely unless a current member goes to D1 football and moves to a Power 5 conference.
If the Big East went to 11 teams for a 20 game conference schedule, who would #11 be? I know St. Louis has aspirations. Then in the Philly area there is St. Joe's. Any other aspirants????
BBBBBut., let me get this straight: Private -- CHECK. Non-football -- CHECK. History of winning and NCAA appearances -- CHECK. Hey, how about Valpo? No, wait. I have to let the meds wear off before I deal with this. Sorry. :crazy:
Possible Big East additions:
-St. Louis: SLU would jump at the chance and probably feels that they deserve it, but the Big East is not going to take a mid to lower tier A10 school unless it had to fill a gap and had no choice.
-Dayton: A great fit on many fronts, but Xavier will fight hard against having another team so close.
-St. Joseph's: See comments on SLU, though SJU is not as arrogant, See comments on Dayton, but replace Xavier with Villanova.
-Gonzaga: Would happen in a heartbeat if everyone in the conference was not two or three timezones away (Providence to Spokane?).
-BYU: Can't see that working out for essentially the same reason BYU can't get into the Big 12 (Sundays), plus it is almost as far removed as Gonzaga.
Bottom line: Big East will not add teams unless someone leaves, which is unlikely because any conference equal or higher has football (remember, the Catholic 7 left the old Big East to get away from D1A football's excessive influence). Any addition to go beyond 10 teams would require the school to be private, in a major metro, in turf not occupied by a current Big East member, financially strong, and a solid recent basketball history. No teams fit that bill.
When I looked at your criteria at the end "major market" hit me anf I thought of Loyola. But then i thought about DePaul fighting that. And unless NW Indiana becomes a self sustaining metropolis, ain't no way a BE team is coming from Chicagoland.
Panther U goes in HARD on the HL. Well worth a listen.
https://sportshax.com/podcast/hr/horizone-roundtable-51-constant-revolution/?utm_campaign=sh-auto-&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
Personally, I found PantherU's 14 paragraph ramblings exhausting, but I'll listen to it. Translates better on audio than walls of text.
First time I've listened to Jimmy since leaving the Horizon. He absolutely savaged LeCrone and I enjoyed every second.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 23, 2019, 07:01:46 PM
Panther U goes in HARD on the HL. Well worth a listen.
https://sportshax.com/podcast/hr/horizone-roundtable-51-constant-revolution/?utm_campaign=sh-auto-&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
Skip the first 12 or so minutes and you'll get into the good stuff. :thumbsup:
That was a really great podcast. PantherU pretty much nailed the history of the HL and LeCrone's failures, and pretty accurately distilled the NKU AD's letter detailing their frustrations about the bait-and-switch of moving the tourney to IUPUI as being the official marker of NKU starting their search for a new conference home.
Destination MVC?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 24, 2019, 06:39:57 PM
Destination MVC?
If Murray St. jumps to the MVC I could see NKU replacing them in the OVC.
Quote from: VALPO LI on February 24, 2019, 06:44:10 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on February 24, 2019, 06:39:57 PMDestination MVC?
If Murray St. jumps to the MVC I could see NKU replacing them in the OVC.
Better for them to be #12 in the MVC I should think.
OVC already declined NKU because they were afraid NKU had too much of a competitive advantage. That's why NKU ended up in ASun originally. Lots of bad blood there.
MVC should double dip with the 2 Kentucky schools.
Quote from: may know on February 25, 2019, 12:47:18 AM
OVC already declined NKU because they were afraid NKU had too much of a competitive advantage. That's why NKU ended up in ASun originally. Lots of bad blood there.
MVC should double dip with the 2 Kentucky schools.
I'd rather not make it more difficult to win our conference and lessen our revenue shares as a %.
BUT if it has to happen, sign me up for Murray State and NKU. I've seen enough of both to say they have an upward trajectory. Again, not sure anyone is bolting from MVC or there is a need to water down revenue % by going to 12 teams.
Autobids are a fools errand in terms of expansion at the mid-major level. The well-funded (P6) make the rules guys.....everywhere that money is involved. It's not changing because the perennially 8-12th ranked MVC adds 2-teams.
We will have 2/10 years where we are close to an at-large bid and we will have years like the present....where a 15-seed is in play.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 25, 2019, 06:51:48 AMI'd rather not make it more difficult to win our conference and lessen our revenue shares as a %.
BUT if it has to happen, sign me up for Murray State and NKU.
If the MVC does want to expand then this is the time to strike. As for mid major at-large candidates Buffalo has 3 losses and a #16 net so they should make the field, while 4 loss Belmont (52 net) and Murray (56 net) would be in the conversation. I think Murray may have lost 2 OVC games with their best player banged up which leads to the question of selection committee consideration?
Quote from: justducky on February 25, 2019, 08:47:14 AMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 25, 2019, 06:51:48 AMI'd rather not make it more difficult to win our conference and lessen our revenue shares as a %. BUT if it has to happen, sign me up for Murray State and NKU.
If the MVC does want to expand then this is the time to strike. As for mid major at-large candidates Buffalo has 3 losses and a #16 net so they should make the field, while 4 loss Belmont (52 net) and Murray (56 net) would be in the conversation. I think Murray may have lost 2 OVC games with their best player banged up which leads to the question of selection committee consideration?
Loyola got no such favor when Custer went down briefly and they struggled and that was coming from a stronger league with better metrics than Murray State has this year so I wouldn't count on any help from the committee if I'm a Racers fan.
Really interesting article about the P5\G5 revenue gap.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/texastechredraiders/2019/03/01/texas-tech-houston-show-financial-gap-haves-nots-could-getting-wider
Some pretty crazy stuff out in Utah. Utah State upsets #12 Nevada and this happens.
https://twitter.com/AthleteSwag/status/1102071587728224261
Jeez, that whole string of tweets is sad. I hope he can rebound next year. But what a crappy year. He is too good a person and coach to have that loaded on his back. What went wrong down there so quickly?
From the did you know department, Buffalo and Valpo were in the same conference for 4 seasons....
The NCAA selection committee decisions will be very interesting this year. As they have moved from RPI to NET, the criteria used in the rankings had changed to some degree. In the 'RPI days', a team in the Top 40 was almost always selected and Top 50 always had a pretty good chance.
Looking at the current NET rankings, these mid-major teams are in the Top 50:
Wofford #14
Buffalo #16
Nevada #20
UCF #28
Utah State #30
Saint Mary's #39
Furman #43
Belmont #44
Lipscomb #45
Murray State #49
Not all of these teams will win their conference tournaments and, of course, some are in the same conference and one (Saint Mary's) will be hard pressed to beat a higher team in their conference. Will these teams get selected over teams like TCU, Minnesota, St John's, and Seton Hall that are in the middle of power conference rankings, but have a few marquee wins. I would like to see the mid-majors get the recognition that they deserve, but I am sort of doubtful that will happen.
One reason that I love college basketball: despite all of the efforts of the major conferences to create barriers against the mid-majors, you always get mid-major teams that overcome those barriers by developing players and playing great team basketball.
This is a good move for the HL and SL and both leagues should be applauded for doing this. I am all for the South Dakota State vs Northern Kentucky and Wright State matchups this is sure to yield. This could also be a good audition for Fort Wayne and the HL. Should we be the Summit League's outsider team for this challenge? It will allow us a game against an old rival which could boost attendance. Of course given our recent struggles we probably won't see the NKU\WSUs of the world so it may not help scheduling strength much but it beats the heck out of non-D1s.
http://horizonleague.org/news/2019/3/6/mens-basketball-horizon-league-summit-league-showdown-to-start-in-2020.aspx
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 07, 2019, 10:19:15 AMThe NCAA selection committee decisions will be very interesting this year. As they have moved from RPI to NET, the criteria used in the rankings had changed to some degree. In the 'RPI days', a team in the Top 40 was almost always selected and Top 50 always had a pretty good chance. Looking at the current NET rankings, these mid-major teams are in the Top 50: Wofford #14 Buffalo #16 Nevada #20 UCF #28 Utah State #30 Saint Mary's #39 Furman #43 Belmont #44 Lipscomb #45 Murray State #49 Not all of these teams will win their conference tournaments and, of course, some are in the same conference and one (Saint Mary's) will be hard pressed to beat a higher team in their conference. Will these teams get selected over teams like TCU, Minnesota, St John's, and Seton Hall that are in the middle of power conference rankings, but have a few marquee wins. I would like to see the mid-majors get the recognition that they deserve, but I am sort of doubtful that will happen. One reason that I love college basketball: despite all of the efforts of the major conferences to create barriers against the mid-majors, you always get mid-major teams that overcome those barriers by developing players and playing great team basketball.
Locks: Wofford Buffalo Nevada
Should be in: UCF Utah State
There's your cutoff methinks. Everyone else needs to win their conference tournament to get in and pray nobody like Wofford Buffalo or Nevada (unless it's by Utah State) gets tripped up and nobody on the bubble wins their conference tournament. St Mary's needs Gonzaga to leave to get in and Belmont Lipscomb and Murray State need to get out of their low major conferences and into conferences with better overall metrics.
Here's the perfect storm for mid majors:
UCF wins the AAC
St Mary's beats Gonzaga
Furman beats Wofford
Utah State beats Nevada
and even then I don't see much of a path for Belmont Lipscomb or Murray State outside of their conference tournaments. They might have an outside chance at one of the final slots but only if they make the finals of their tournament. Belmont's 3-0 record against Lipscomb and Murray State gives them the best chance of surviving and making good on that faint hope. Murray State being the one to beat Belmont in the finals would be good for mids too and could get both in. Lipscomb is the hardest to advocate for without winning their conference tournament (Murray State is in that boat too.) I see too many holes in either team's resume and Belmont's isn't without its warts either (Green Bay Jacksonville State sweep) but as I said they are the best bet of these three in this scenario to survive as an at large.
Interesting...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/sources-creighton-tcu-now-involved-college-basketball-fraud-scandal-223559696.html
Are conferences about to make some moves? The tone of this interview with SL Commissioner Tom Douple seems to suggest as much. His comments about PFW and UMKC (and to a lesser extent WIU and Augustana) seem to suggest as much. This also could be why the HL\SL challenge is not starting until 2020 which coincidentally is the year North Dakota is joining the MVFC. I think the pieces are coming together...
https://kwsn.com/podcasts/sports-talk-with-kwsn/5093/tom-douple-on-summit-tourneys-decade-in-sioux-falls-augustana-possibility/#
Consider the following:
Dixie State is joining the WAC This gives UMKC freedom to go to the Summit to replace PFW
PFW goes to the Horizon
NKU miffed by LeCrone's tournament shenanigans reaches out to the MVC and the MVC is receptive
Murray State at long last has its entrance partner to enter the MVC
With Murray State gone the OVC is free to add Lipscomb who would likely relish the travel cost savings and more importantly move its tournament back to Nashville
The OVC adds a football only member (North Alabama?)
What does this mean for the future of NCAA Athletics?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/2019/03/08/judge-lifts-ncaa-limits-athletes-compensation-related-education/2887122002/
Not looking great for LSU and Will Wade.
If Vandy loses to LSU tonight Heckler may open his front door to find Drew hogtied and left there by some angry Vandy fans.
Or Gottfried at NCST (though he's already gone)
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26198799/gottfried-directly-linked-payments
Fact: Vanderbilt is 0 for 2019.
Last win: New Year's Eve over UNC-Asheville which brought the Commodores to 9-3... 18 losses in a row... Injuries or not that's ugly...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 07, 2019, 10:25:35 PMQuote from: vu84v2 on March 07, 2019, 10:19:15 AMThe NCAA selection committee decisions will be very interesting this year. As they have moved from RPI to NET, the criteria used in the rankings had changed to some degree. In the 'RPI days', a team in the Top 40 was almost always selected and Top 50 always had a pretty good chance. Looking at the current NET rankings, these mid-major teams are in the Top 50: Wofford #14 Buffalo #16 Nevada #20 UCF #28 Utah State #30 Saint Mary's #39 Furman #43 Belmont #44 Lipscomb #45 Murray State #49 Not all of these teams will win their conference tournaments and, of course, some are in the same conference and one (Saint Mary's) will be hard pressed to beat a higher team in their conference. Will these teams get selected over teams like TCU, Minnesota, St John's, and Seton Hall that are in the middle of power conference rankings, but have a few marquee wins. I would like to see the mid-majors get the recognition that they deserve, but I am sort of doubtful that will happen. One reason that I love college basketball: despite all of the efforts of the major conferences to create barriers against the mid-majors, you always get mid-major teams that overcome those barriers by developing players and playing great team basketball.
Locks: Wofford Buffalo Nevada Should be in: UCF Utah State There's your cutoff methinks. Everyone else needs to win their conference tournament to get in and pray nobody like Wofford Buffalo or Nevada (unless it's by Utah State) gets tripped up and nobody on the bubble wins their conference tournament. St Mary's needs Gonzaga to leave to get in and Belmont Lipscomb and Murray State need to get out of their low major conferences and into conferences with better overall metrics.
Both Lunardi and Palm have both St. John's and Seton Hall as solidly in at this point.
I watched the OVC games last night instead of the MVC. I would love to see both Belmont and Murray make it (final tonight) but that will take a Racers win and the blessing of the selection committee for a bubble Belmont. I think that should happen. The whole Knicks front office, plus Bulls GM, plus Magic were there watching Morant and the projected early second round Bruins deadeye.
Mussinski sp? sprained an ankle so maybe it comes down to that and how well Adelsparger (who we recruited over Derrik) can fill in. I'll be switching games back and forth tonight.
Adelsperger went for 7 and 2 last night... I'd say we lucked out getting Smits...
Quote from: M on March 08, 2019, 09:05:05 PMNot looking great for LSU and Will Wade.
Though they did clinch the SEC title last night without him as they walloped Vandy by 21. Does Bryce survive after this o fer? Serious question. And what does he do if he doesn't? Become an analyst? Collect fat checks doing nothing for three years? Become Scott's assistant at Baylor and try again in 1-3 years? Send out feelers about the possibility of coming home (which will probably be rejected at least this year while we ensure Lottich gets a fair shake?)
NKU's beat writer is done with the HL:
https://twitter.com/dontribunesport/status/1104071507674873856
And he retweets these two fans:
https://twitter.com/JoeMikeMills/status/1104077230731390978
https://twitter.com/CoachDWMarshall/status/1104196299639922690
Time for the MVC to pounce?
NKU is awful uppity for a program with one NCAA appearance.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 10, 2019, 04:23:04 PMNKU is awful uppity for a program with one NCAA appearance.
Fair point. I would also say they're a program that knows when they are getting screwed and is committed to excellence from the whole institution on down and wants better for itself. I will concede that this is a somewhat odd thing to complain about but I bet this has more to do with the tournament BS than anything else. That cut deep. You can tell.
Anyone wanting to see Belmont in the tournament should be cheering for Wofford tomorrow.
Yeah, although using the phrase "beneath us" is a realllly bad look for a team with NKU's, uh, very modest track record so far, he's got a point. We'd have been furious with a "showdown" like this putting the Summit League on equal footing with us when we were in the HL. Also, they've just seen the HL office lie to their membership in order to screw everyone besides Indy out of an opportunity to host the conference tournament. They're certainly justified in not taking anything that comes from the HL at face value and wanting to look for a new home.
(All that said, as a stand-alone scheduling agreement, it's harmless. Some of these teams definitely struggle to get decent home games in the non-conference, and this guarantees a midmajor home-and-home every two years).
The NKU reporter needs to understand that there probably isn't a program in the country holding pep rallies for a game vs. NKU either.
In spite of how crappy the HL was to everyone but IUPUI I wonder if it's the best or most professional look for a beat reporter to be spouting off like this. It feels too direct too public and it might negatively affect NKU in its quest to leave and in the future in the HL if they can't leave.
13-14, he's a beat reporter for a commuter school in a low mid-major conference. You value NKU way more than they have earned or deserved. They are probably at best the 5th program in Kentucky and 6th program in Cincinnati/NKU media market behind X, UC, Kentucky, Ville and Ohio State (not to mention Miami, IU and Dayton all having attention in that media market). They are essentially Wright State or Cleveland State. They should not be considered for the MVC. Yes, the HL has once again lessened itself and in those actions hurt its members. But, reality is the Summit and HL are basically the same interchangeable programs with similar conference and overall records. Western (the only remaining original 8 of the AMCU-8) had maybe their biggest win in 2 decades by beating the Summit's #1 seed Saturday.
The other thing this guy should remember is that the HL , in the process of doing NKU a favor and admitting them a year before they were tourney-eligible almost certainly helped prevent VU from getting an at-large bid that year, even though we beat them handily twice. NKU was an absolute RPI anchor that year. If we had been able to replace even one of those two games with a Top 150 opponent, there's a good chance the Crusaders nab the at-large bid we just missed out on.
That's true I had forgotten about that. NKU killed our SOS that year... It's funny not all of LeCrone's moves are bad the man just has no timing. If there's one thing Butler Valpo and NKU fans can agree on it's that the HL has no ability or no desire to protect or do anything for its flagship members.
In that regard (protecting flagships), this year's Arch Madness proved the exception at least in one respect:
No matter the righteousness of the quest,
No matter the pureness of soul,
No matter the bravery and integrity of the knight,
Sometimes, my friends, in the end the dragon wins.
But just like the dance itself, underdogs are what makes CBB so viewable and exciting.
I wanted Loyola to go through and give the the MVC a repeat high profile name in the NCAAT, but it was not to be. I do not admire Wardle But I do not begrudge his kids this opportunity. I hope they get past the first round for their sake and the sake of the MVC.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 11, 2019, 05:03:58 PM
That's true I had forgotten about that. NKU killed our SOS that year... It's funny not all of LeCrone's moves are bad the man just has no timing. If there's one thing Butler Valpo and NKU fans can agree on it's that the HL has no ability or no desire to protect or do anything for its flagship members.
I think we need a little history lesson here to put this in perspective. The HL had the perfect system for protecting its flagship programs - the top 2 seeds received double byes and the championship game hosted by the highest remaining seed. It threw it all away 4 years ago and it's been downhill ever since. The Detroit tournament was a complete attendance bust, location-wise it favored 2 schools over the other 8 (especially Oakland), yet they consistently squandered that advantage. Now that Detroit flopped, LeCrone's moving it to his backyard, and everyone's up in arms, except IUPUI.
Now for the perspective. To their credit, Butler took greatest advantage of the double bye format, then Valpo when Butler left. The other programs grew increasingly more frustrated and bitter by their repeated lack of success post-Butler, thus all of them except UIC (and Valpo) voted for the Detroit move. Of course Oakland and Detroit would vote for it, but think about the others. They voted for it, even though the location would favor 2 competitors over themselves. They voted for it knowing they were forfeiting any future opportunity to host the semi finals and championship games in their own buildings. That's how jealous the conference's old guard programs were that upstart Valpo came along and became the new king of the hill when Butler left.
Therefore, I could give a fxxk about any of these programs and their crybaby feelings about their tournament moving to Indy. Rather than earn their way to the top as we did, they plotted against us and began a downward spiral that continues to the present day. So, what's next for the good old HL? Ongoing discord, the impending flop of the Indy 4-team mini tournament, it's demise, LeCrone's firing, and Big D, Jimmy, and all the other prognosticators blaming everyone but their own programs for the HL's further swan dive into the abyss. It's such a satisfying feeling when justice is served.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI do not admire Wardle
Standing alone has never bothered me so I will reaffirm my support for Wardle and his outdated ??? methods. The last time we went to war on Wardle was March-April 2014 and the heated exchanges ultimately led to Milanmiracle dropping off our board. I was just too stubborn or stupid to leave and I haven't gotten any smarter in the interim. So if it is now me (less Milan) vs this board--I'm liking my odds. :thumbsup:
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI hope they get past the first round for their sake and the sake of the MVC.
Every Valley fan is now a Bradley fan and every Bradley fan is now a Wardle fan.
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2019, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI do not admire Wardle
Standing alone has never bothered me so I will reaffirm my support for Wardle and his outdated ??? methods. The last time we went to war on Wardle was March-April 2014 and the heated exchanges ultimately led to Milanmiracle dropping off our board. I was just too stubborn or stupid to leave and I haven't gotten any smarter in the interim. So if it is now me (less Milan) vs this board--I'm liking my odds. :thumbsup:
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI hope they get past the first round for their sake and the sake of the MVC.
Every Valley fan is now a Bradley fan and every Bradley fan is now a Wardle fan.
I wasn't on the board in 2014 so forgive me for asking for clarification. Are you saying you support Wardle? I don't have the brain power (head cold) so just tell me like it is...
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 11, 2019, 02:48:57 PM
The other thing this guy should remember is that the HL , in the process of doing NKU a favor and admitting them a year before they were tourney-eligible almost certainly helped prevent VU from getting an at-large bid that year, even though we beat them handily twice. NKU was an absolute RPI anchor that year. If we had been able to replace even one of those two games with a Top 150 opponent, there's a good chance the Crusaders nab the at-large bid we just missed out on.
False. We are kidding ourselves if we really think that the selection committee was letting Valpo into that year's Big Dance.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 11, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2019, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI do not admire Wardle
Standing alone has never bothered me so I will reaffirm my support for Wardle and his outdated ??? methods. The last time we went to war on Wardle was March-April 2014 and the heated exchanges ultimately led to Milanmiracle dropping off our board. I was just too stubborn or stupid to leave and I haven't gotten any smarter in the interim. So if it is now me (less Milan) vs this board--I'm liking my odds. :thumbsup:
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI hope they get past the first round for their sake and the sake of the MVC.
Every Valley fan is now a Bradley fan and every Bradley fan is now a Wardle fan.
I wasn't on the board in 2014 so forgive me for asking for clarification. Are you saying you support Wardle? I don't have the brain power (head cold) so just tell me like it is...
It absolutely killed me to sit right behind the Bradley fans as they won the championship game because the UNI player had a brain fart committed a technical foul allowing the Bradley player to make 4 FT in a row. Wardle and the Braves we're handed that game.
Belmont's hopes get a boost with Wofford handling its business in the SOCON
Quote from: bbtds on March 11, 2019, 07:58:04 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 11, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2019, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI do not admire Wardle
Standing alone has never bothered me so I will reaffirm my support for Wardle and his outdated ??? methods. The last time we went to war on Wardle was March-April 2014 and the heated exchanges ultimately led to Milanmiracle dropping off our board. I was just too stubborn or stupid to leave and I haven't gotten any smarter in the interim. So if it is now me (less Milan) vs this board--I'm liking my odds. :thumbsup:
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI hope they get past the first round for their sake and the sake of the MVC.
Every Valley fan is now a Bradley fan and every Bradley fan is now a Wardle fan.
I wasn't on the board in 2014 so forgive me for asking for clarification. Are you saying you support Wardle? I don't have the brain power (head cold) so just tell me like it is...
It absolutely killed me to sit right behind the Bradley fans as they won the championship game because the UNI player had a brain fart committed a technical foul allowing the Bradley player to make 4 FT in a row. Wardle and the Braves we're handed that game.
I'm going to have to defend McDonnell, the UNI player. He did not have "a brain fart." The video showed McDonnell's contact with the Bradley player was caused by a push from behind on McDonnell by another Bradley player; therefore, it should have been called incidental contact rather than a flagrant foul. If McDonnell were pushed into an official by a Bradley player, would the official give McDonnell a technical foul for the contact or would the official recognize the source of the action?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 11, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2019, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI do not admire Wardle
Standing alone has never bothered me so I will reaffirm my support for Wardle and his outdated ??? methods. The last time we went to war on Wardle was March-April 2014 and the heated exchanges ultimately led to Milanmiracle dropping off our board. I was just too stubborn or stupid to leave and I haven't gotten any smarter in the interim. So if it is now me (less Milan) vs this board--I'm liking my odds. :thumbsup:
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI hope they get past the first round for their sake and the sake of the MVC.
Every Valley fan is now a Bradley fan and every Bradley fan is now a Wardle fan.
I wasn't on the board in 2014 so forgive me for asking for clarification. Are you saying you support Wardle? I don't have the brain power (head cold) so just tell me like it is...
You didn't join the board until 2016 so I'll answer yes but with Wardle you always have to qualify your support. During his coaching tenure at Green Bay we spent more time talking about him than we did about us. He was taken from thread to thread, month to month, then year to year. It was always lively and entertaining. It finally came to a head when Wardle won some kind of award and the board exploded. :o
For a sampling of our venom I'll refer you back to thread title page 15, Buzz Williams leaving Marquette for VA Tech pages 6 and 7. Have fun! You will recognize most of the individuals who posted.
Quote from: valpopal on March 11, 2019, 08:48:38 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 11, 2019, 07:58:04 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 11, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2019, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI do not admire Wardle
Standing alone has never bothered me so I will reaffirm my support for Wardle and his outdated ??? methods. The last time we went to war on Wardle was March-April 2014 and the heated exchanges ultimately led to Milanmiracle dropping off our board. I was just too stubborn or stupid to leave and I haven't gotten any smarter in the interim. So if it is now me (less Milan) vs this board--I'm liking my odds. :thumbsup:
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI hope they get past the first round for their sake and the sake of the MVC.
Every Valley fan is now a Bradley fan and every Bradley fan is now a Wardle fan.
I wasn't on the board in 2014 so forgive me for asking for clarification. Are you saying you support Wardle? I don't have the brain power (head cold) so just tell me like it is...
It absolutely killed me to sit right behind the Bradley fans as they won the championship game because the UNI player had a brain fart committed a technical foul allowing the Bradley player to make 4 FT in a row. Wardle and the Braves we're handed that game.
I'm going to have to defend McDonnell, the UNI player. He did not have "a brain fart." The video showed McDonnell's contact with the Bradley player was caused by a push from behind on McDonnell by another Bradley player; therefore, it should have been called incidental contact rather than a flagrant foul. If McDonnell were pushed into an official by a Bradley player, would the official give McDonnell a technical foul for the contact or would the official recognize the source of the action?
Maybe I didn't really see what I thought I saw but I believe McDonnell may have over-protested the call that was made because of the foul not really being of his volition.
I believe the PA announcer in the Enterprise Center used the term technical foul and not flagrant foul when announcing the reason for the 4 FTs.
Quote from: bbtds on March 11, 2019, 11:43:52 PM
Quote from: valpopal on March 11, 2019, 08:48:38 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 11, 2019, 07:58:04 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 11, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2019, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI do not admire Wardle
Standing alone has never bothered me so I will reaffirm my support for Wardle and his outdated ??? methods. The last time we went to war on Wardle was March-April 2014 and the heated exchanges ultimately led to Milanmiracle dropping off our board. I was just too stubborn or stupid to leave and I haven't gotten any smarter in the interim. So if it is now me (less Milan) vs this board--I'm liking my odds. :thumbsup:
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 11, 2019, 05:50:21 PMI hope they get past the first round for their sake and the sake of the MVC.
Every Valley fan is now a Bradley fan and every Bradley fan is now a Wardle fan.
I wasn't on the board in 2014 so forgive me for asking for clarification. Are you saying you support Wardle? I don't have the brain power (head cold) so just tell me like it is...
It absolutely killed me to sit right behind the Bradley fans as they won the championship game because the UNI player had a brain fart committed a technical foul allowing the Bradley player to make 4 FT in a row. Wardle and the Braves we're handed that game.
I'm going to have to defend McDonnell, the UNI player. He did not have "a brain fart." The video showed McDonnell's contact with the Bradley player was caused by a push from behind on McDonnell by another Bradley player; therefore, it should have been called incidental contact rather than a flagrant foul. If McDonnell were pushed into an official by a Bradley player, would the official give McDonnell a technical foul for the contact or would the official recognize the source of the action?
Maybe I didn't really see what I thought I saw but I believe McDonnell may have over-protested the call that was made because of the foul not really being of his volition.
I believe the PA announcer in the Enterprise Center used the term technical foul and not flagrant foul when announcing the reason for the 4 FTs.
The call was a flagrant foul that happened during a dead ball, which is why it is labeled a technical foul. Here is a quote from the Des Moines Register: "'I talked to the ref, and he said I got him with the elbow,' McDonnell said. 'Definitely wasn't intentional, but it just sucks.'" The video showed McDonnell being pushed from behind by a Bradley player and his momentum forward causing the accidental contact with the Bradley player that was coming towards McDonnell. In fact, if you look at the video in slow motion, it is apparent that the Bradley player who gets hit actually comes down on McDonnell and bangs his face on McDonnell's elbow, which is at his side and not raised up above his shoulders. McDonnell did not protest strongly. He seemed in a state of shock at the call.
https://abc7news.com/actresses-ceos-charged-in-alleged-college-admissions-scam/5186103/
Doesn't look like this has hit basketball but several sports coaches have been accused/indicated. I posted more about it in the general sports forum but wanted to drop this here too.
But between this and the basketball stuff not a great look for NCAA and college athletics in general.
It'll never fly with the committee but this is a darn solid case for Lipscomb
https://twitter.com/LipscombMBB/status/1105544850064240640
They won't get in but I love the snark. Troll hard, Bisons. Troll hard.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 12, 2019, 10:46:07 AM
https://abc7news.com/actresses-ceos-charged-in-alleged-college-admissions-scam/5186103/
Doesn't look like this has hit basketball but several sports coaches have been accused/indicated. I posted more about it in the general sports forum but wanted to drop this here too.
But between this and the basketball stuff not a great look for NCAA and college athletics in general.
The unscrupulous actions of the people involved here fit perfectly with certain stereotype labels associated with their group.
Quote from: wh on March 12, 2019, 06:47:19 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 12, 2019, 10:46:07 AM
https://abc7news.com/actresses-ceos-charged-in-alleged-college-admissions-scam/5186103/
Doesn't look like this has hit basketball but several sports coaches have been accused/indicated. I posted more about it in the general sports forum but wanted to drop this here too.
But between this and the basketball stuff not a great look for NCAA and college athletics in general.
The unscrupulous actions of the people involved here fit perfectly with certain stereotype labels associated with their group.
If you look at the 33 parents listed, most are lawyers, CEOs, corporate executives and hedge fund managers (or spouses).
I am watching the Saint Mary's - Gonzaga game and heard Dick Vitale actually say this:
"The NCAA selection process awards mediocrity (by taking teams from major conferences with 13+ losses). The NCAA should take the 36 at-large bids and do the following. Award 28 to the most deserving teams from the Power 6 conferences and award the other 8 to the most deserving teams from other conferences that did not win their conference tournament."
This sounds like a pretty good idea! (which will never happen)
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 12, 2019, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: wh on March 12, 2019, 06:47:19 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 12, 2019, 10:46:07 AM
https://abc7news.com/actresses-ceos-charged-in-alleged-college-admissions-scam/5186103/
Doesn't look like this has hit basketball but several sports coaches have been accused/indicated. I posted more about it in the general sports forum but wanted to drop this here too.
But between this and the basketball stuff not a great look for NCAA and college athletics in general.
The unscrupulous actions of the people involved here fit perfectly with certain stereotype labels associated with their group.
If you look at the 33 parents listed, most are lawyers, CEOs, corporate executives and hedge fund managers (or spouses).
Unquestionably all lawyers, CEOs, corporate executives, and fund managers are evil.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2019, 05:51:59 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 12, 2019, 09:10:27 PM
Quote from: wh on March 12, 2019, 06:47:19 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 12, 2019, 10:46:07 AM
https://abc7news.com/actresses-ceos-charged-in-alleged-college-admissions-scam/5186103/
Doesn't look like this has hit basketball but several sports coaches have been accused/indicated. I posted more about it in the general sports forum but wanted to drop this here too.
But between this and the basketball stuff not a great look for NCAA and college athletics in general.
The unscrupulous actions of the people involved here fit perfectly with certain stereotype labels associated with their group.
If you look at the 33 parents listed, most are lawyers, CEOs, corporate executives and hedge fund managers (or spouses).
Unquestionably all lawyers, CEOs, corporate executives, and fund managers are evil.
A little defensive?
A little presumptive?
Talk basketball or take this to the politics forum.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:04 PM
I am watching the Saint Mary's - Gonzaga game and heard Dick Vitale actually say this:
"The NCAA selection process awards mediocrity (by taking teams from major conferences with 13+ losses). The NCAA should take the 36 at-large bids and do the following. Award 28 to the most deserving teams from the Power 6 conferences and award the other 8 to the most deserving teams from other conferences that did not win their conference tournament."
This sounds like a pretty good idea! (which will never happen)
Sounds lovely - what are his criteria? Vitale, and many others can stump all they want for "deserving" mid-majors to be included rather than power programs with mediocre conference records. The problem is that teams like Belmont, Lipscomb, and even Furman win a lot of games, and you can't discount that, but they win those games against really bad opponents, and the few times they do get opportunities against Power programs, they generally lose, or in Belmont or Furman's case, teams you beat like UCLA, Western Kentucky and Loyola aren't as good as expected and don't help you.
This is why I will always advocate for using a Sagarin, Kenpom, BPI, or some kind of predictive analytical rating to rank teams, and take the humans completely out of it. You can even set up an algorithm for seeding and where the teams play at to prevent those regular season re-matches in the early rounds. Scheduling wouldn't matter (e.g. Wofford is ranked 18th in Kenpom despite having the 107th ranked schedule), and then you'd at least have a better chance of actually getting the best teams in the dance and seeding them properly. Teams like Furman, Belmont, Lipscomb would still likely be on the outside looking in (as they're all ranked 50th or worse on Kenpom), but at least they'd know where they stood all season long and they wouldn't feel like they got their hearts ripped out on Selection Sunday when a subjective process is used to determine whether or not they should be included.
Northwestern is top 70 in KenPom.
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 13, 2019, 09:11:13 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:04 PM
I am watching the Saint Mary's - Gonzaga game and heard Dick Vitale actually say this:
"The NCAA selection process awards mediocrity (by taking teams from major conferences with 13+ losses). The NCAA should take the 36 at-large bids and do the following. Award 28 to the most deserving teams from the Power 6 conferences and award the other 8 to the most deserving teams from other conferences that did not win their conference tournament."
This sounds like a pretty good idea! (which will never happen)
Sounds lovely - what are his criteria? Vitale, and many others can stump all they want for "deserving" mid-majors to be included rather than power programs with mediocre conference records. The problem is that teams like Belmont, Lipscomb, and even Furman win a lot of games, and you can't discount that, but they win those games against really bad opponents, and the few times they do get opportunities against Power programs, they generally lose, or in Belmont or Furman's case, teams you beat like UCLA, Western Kentucky and Loyola aren't as good as expected and don't help you.
This is why I will always advocate for using a Sagarin, Kenpom, BPI, or some kind of predictive analytical rating to rank teams, and take the humans completely out of it. You can even set up an algorithm for seeding and where the teams play at to prevent those regular season re-matches in the early rounds. Scheduling wouldn't matter (e.g. Wofford is ranked 18th in Kenpom despite having the 107th ranked schedule), and then you'd at least have a better chance of actually getting the best teams in the dance and seeding them properly. Teams like Furman, Belmont, Lipscomb would still likely be on the outside looking in (as they're all ranked 50th or worse on Kenpom), but at least they'd know where they stood all season long and they wouldn't feel like they got their hearts ripped out on Selection Sunday when a subjective process is used to determine whether or not they should be included.
My understanding is that they tried get closer to an analytical method with NET. And looking at the current NET rankings, I would think that if they used this analytical method these teams would get in:
Utah State: 30
Furman: 41
New Mexico State: 45 (still needs to play conference tournament, and would drop with a loss in that conference)
Belmont: 46
Lipscomb: 48
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 13, 2019, 10:26:05 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 13, 2019, 09:11:13 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 12, 2019, 09:15:04 PM
I am watching the Saint Mary's - Gonzaga game and heard Dick Vitale actually say this:
"The NCAA selection process awards mediocrity (by taking teams from major conferences with 13+ losses). The NCAA should take the 36 at-large bids and do the following. Award 28 to the most deserving teams from the Power 6 conferences and award the other 8 to the most deserving teams from other conferences that did not win their conference tournament."
This sounds like a pretty good idea! (which will never happen)
Sounds lovely - what are his criteria? Vitale, and many others can stump all they want for "deserving" mid-majors to be included rather than power programs with mediocre conference records. The problem is that teams like Belmont, Lipscomb, and even Furman win a lot of games, and you can't discount that, but they win those games against really bad opponents, and the few times they do get opportunities against Power programs, they generally lose, or in Belmont or Furman's case, teams you beat like UCLA, Western Kentucky and Loyola aren't as good as expected and don't help you.
This is why I will always advocate for using a Sagarin, Kenpom, BPI, or some kind of predictive analytical rating to rank teams, and take the humans completely out of it. You can even set up an algorithm for seeding and where the teams play at to prevent those regular season re-matches in the early rounds. Scheduling wouldn't matter (e.g. Wofford is ranked 18th in Kenpom despite having the 107th ranked schedule), and then you'd at least have a better chance of actually getting the best teams in the dance and seeding them properly. Teams like Furman, Belmont, Lipscomb would still likely be on the outside looking in (as they're all ranked 50th or worse on Kenpom), but at least they'd know where they stood all season long and they wouldn't feel like they got their hearts ripped out on Selection Sunday when a subjective process is used to determine whether or not they should be included.
My understanding is that they tried get closer to an analytical method with NET. And looking at the current NET rankings, I would think that if they used this analytical method these teams would get in:
Utah State: 30
Furman: 41
New Mexico State: 45 (still needs to play conference tournament, and would drop with a loss in that conference)
Belmont: 46
Lipscomb: 48
They invented it to be used. They'd better use it.
You need to be in the top 37 to theoretically have a shot at an at large None of those teams is getting in. The smartest thing the SOCON could do is grab Belmont and Lipscomb for hoops.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 13, 2019, 10:26:05 AM
My understanding is that they tried get closer to an analytical method with NET. And looking at the current NET rankings, I would think that if they used this analytical method these teams would get in:
Utah State: 30
Furman: 41
New Mexico State: 45 (still needs to play conference tournament, and would drop with a loss in that conference)
Belmont: 46
Lipscomb: 48
But that's part of my point. If they just went by a pure (you're ranked here, so you're in or you're out), then yeah, even though I think the NET is a half measure between the really poor ranking system of the RPI and a really good analytical model, then the process would be incredibly transparent, teams would know where things stood, and it would at least be good from that standpoint. But my prediction is that the people in the room will be more concerned about Quad 1 wins and other subjective numbers, which puts the mid-majors at an automatic disadvantage.
I'm not going to say that the committee members don't put in a lot of time and effort into the selection process. But the decision-making process could be simplified in a way that would make both mids and power programs happier than the current selection process, IMO.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2019, 11:41:15 AM
You need to be in the top 37 to theoretically have a shot at an at large None of those teams is getting in. The smartest thing the SOCON could do is grab Belmont and Lipscomb for hoops.
The rankings include all of the teams that get (or will get) automatic births. If you assume that 15 of those teams are in the top 50, then you need to be in the top 50 overall to have a higher probability for an at-large birth.
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 13, 2019, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 13, 2019, 10:26:05 AM
My understanding is that they tried get closer to an analytical method with NET. And looking at the current NET rankings, I would think that if they used this analytical method these teams would get in:
Utah State: 30
Furman: 41
New Mexico State: 45 (still needs to play conference tournament, and would drop with a loss in that conference)
Belmont: 46
Lipscomb: 48
But that's part of my point. If they just went by a pure (you're ranked here, so you're in or you're out), then yeah, even though I think the NET is a half measure between the really poor ranking system of the RPI and a really good analytical model, then the process would be incredibly transparent, teams would know where things stood, and it would at least be good from that standpoint. But my prediction is that the people in the room will be more concerned about Quad 1 wins and other subjective numbers, which puts the mid-majors at an automatic disadvantage.
I'm not going to say that the committee members don't put in a lot of time and effort into the selection process. But the decision-making process could be simplified in a way that would make both mids and power programs happier than the current selection process, IMO.
Theoretically, Quad-1 wins are already taken into account (indirectly) in the NET calculation. Correct? Now they're going to further take them into account?
Quote from: wh on March 13, 2019, 01:56:34 PM
Theoretically, Quad-1 wins are already taken into account (indirectly) in the NET calculation. Correct? Now they're going to further take them into account?
Correct, the strength of the opponent opponent is a portion of the NET Ranking, as is margin of victory (to an extent) and offensive and defensive efficiency differential (which isn't capped). It'll be interesting to see what ultimately happens, but the bracketologists have all been using the Quadrant 1 records and wins when comparing teams, and that's where a team like Belmont whose only Quad 1 wins are over Lipscomb and Murray State when Ja Morant was hurt, and their only other Quad 1 games was against Purdue and Murray State in the conference tourney. Then you have an Indiana, who is 5 spots behind Belmont in the NET Rankings, but has Quad 1 wins over Marquette, Louisville, Michigan State (twice), Penn State and Wisconsin. This is why bracketologists rank IU ahead of a Belmont on their last four in/first four out sheets. While they have WAY more opportunities, their wins are much better than what Belmont can put out there.
And hence the circular argument begins about scheduling could begin. Yes, Indiana has had more chances but has lost a whole bunch of games. Let Belmont schedule home and homes with Indiana and Purdue or other P5s and then it's an even playing field. Vitale's argument (and maybe 8 isn't the right number) is a solid argument -- teams like Belmont, St. Marys, Valpo 2016, Furman, etc. enhance the tourney because they are proven winners during the season. They won the games they should have. They are more entertaining and interesting and Cinderella-potential than watching a mediocre IU team lose in the play-in games or a first round game. They are at best a play-in 12 or 11. Let Belmont be the play-in 11 or 12 vs a mediocre P5 11 or 12 on the neutral court. I agree with Dickie V--I'd rather watch that game or one between 2 mid-majors. Again, first criteria for an at large should be >.500 in your league. The only P5 team with .500 or better conference record to make the Final 4 in the past 35 years (based on a quick search) was Syracuse in 2016. They were at least 9-9 (12-10 after conference tourney) and made the play-in game as an 11. They had made also made it to the ACC Tourney Finals and then were blessed because Middle Tenn State knocked off Michigan State (2 seed) in "2d" round. Very similar run to NC State in '83, NC State was 8-6 in conference (8 teams), but won the ACC tourney beating Jordan/Daugherty/Perkins and then Sampson's Virginia. For fun, should Valpo have been in and Syracuse not?
There was more to Vitale's comments during the Saint Mary's - Gonzaga game. In regards to .500 or below conference records, Vitale said, "nobody forced you to be in that conference...if you can't achieve an above .500 record, accept that you are not worthy of a tournament birth." Again, surprising comments (that will never lead to changes in the selection process).
Should Valpo have gotten a birth instead of Syracuse in 2016....yes. What Syracuse did in the tournament is irrelevant since the selection committee did not know that when making the decision. At the time the decision was made, Valpo was more deserving.
The NCAA could make this process a lot easier and a lot more fair with a simple rule -- need to be above .500 in your conference to be eligible for an at-large berth. Anything less, win the auto-bid. It's a completely fair and reasonable standard to meet. At a certain point, you have to win games. Anything else rewards mediocrity.
Those arguing for the outdated notion that a Belmont couldn't compete in the B1G could easily prove that on the court by scheduling them. (The folks who argue this always omit the inconvenient fact that playing a B1G schedule would mean that they'd get 10 B1G teams going to Belmont's building and if there's one thing P5 teams hate, it's playing on the road). As it stands with our one data point, Belmont came closer to beating Purdue at Mackey than IU did.
What we've actually seen in the tourney is 7 midmajor teams in the Final Four the past 12 years and the top overall seed from the ACC getting smashed into oblivion by a 16 seed that was the 2nd place team in the America East. The paradigm has changed and the old arguments won't suffice anymore.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 13, 2019, 08:46:47 PM
The NCAA could make this process a lot easier and a lot more fair with a simple rule -- need to be above .500 in your conference to be eligible for an at-large berth. Anything less, win the auto-bid. It's a completely fair and reasonable standard to meet. At a certain point, you have to win games. Anything else rewards mediocrity.
Those arguing for the outdated notion that a Belmont couldn't compete in the B1G could easily prove that on the court by scheduling them. (The folks who argue this always omit the inconvenient fact that playing a B1G schedule would mean that they'd get 10 B1G teams going to Belmont's building and if there's one thing P5 teams hate, it's playing on the road). As it stands with our one data point, Belmont came closer to beating Purdue at Mackey than IU did.
What we've actually seen in the tourney is 7 midmajor teams in the Final Four the past 12 years and the top overall seed from the ACC getting smashed into oblivion by a 16 seed that was the 2nd place team in the America East. The paradigm has changed and the old arguments won't suffice anymore.
YES. YES. YES. Simple but so logical. Why would the NCAA want a conference loser in the tourney unless i was an autobid.
If IU goes on the road to Murray State, Jacksonville State, Loyola, etc they likely lose a handful of those games as well. IU won 3 road games all year, and two of those were against dreadful teams (Illinois and Penn State).
They dropped 5 games at home as well.
At a certain point, you have to value actually winning games. It's shameful that the committee will reward IU for playing only two ooc road games (getting slaughtered in one, losing to a non tournament team in the other). Those losses are completely ignored because they happened to catch Michigan State during a rough stretch and their uniforms are red and say Indiana.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 13, 2019, 08:46:47 PM
The NCAA could make this process a lot easier and a lot more fair with a simple rule -- need to be above .500 in your conference to be eligible for an at-large berth. Anything less, win the auto-bid. It's a completely fair and reasonable standard to meet. At a certain point, you have to win games. Anything else rewards mediocrity.
We were talking about something very similar back in September on this thread: https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2803.msg103971#msg103971
(https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2803.msg103971#msg103971)
I'd suggest that .500 records are eligible for an at-large invitation, as are teams that make their conference championship game (yet might lose). Look at the sample of teams that are in the last 16 under consideration on ESPN's bracketology, with their conference records.
St. John's (8-10)
Texas (8-10)
TCU (7-11)
Ohio State (8-12)
Indiana (8-12)
Alabama (8-10)
Look, I have no problem with a team like Texas getting into the tournament if they get hot in the Big12 tournament and lose a close game to Texas Tech or Kansas. Doing so should earn them consideration.
Yet not all of these teams should be bubble teams - Jay Bilas even listed Butler as #54 in his recent list of the 68 best teams in college basketball (TCU was #55) and there is no way that finishing tied for last in conference should earn a tournament invitation.
Quote from: valpo95 on March 13, 2019, 10:38:47 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 13, 2019, 08:46:47 PM
The NCAA could make this process a lot easier and a lot more fair with a simple rule -- need to be above .500 in your conference to be eligible for an at-large berth. Anything less, win the auto-bid. It's a completely fair and reasonable standard to meet. At a certain point, you have to win games. Anything else rewards mediocrity.
We were talking about something very similar back in September on this thread: https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2803.msg103971#msg103971
(https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2803.msg103971#msg103971)
I'd suggest that .500 records are eligible for an at-large invitation, as are teams that make their conference championship game (yet might lose). Look at the sample of teams that are in the last 16 under consideration on ESPN's bracketology, with their conference records.
St. John's (8-10)
Texas (8-10)
TCU (7-11)
Ohio State (8-12)
Indiana (8-12)
Alabama (8-10)
Look, I have no problem with a team like Texas getting into the tournament if they get hot in the Big12 tournament and lose a close game to Texas Tech or Kansas. Doing so should earn them consideration.
Yet not all of these teams should be bubble teams - Jay Bilas even listed Butler as #54 in his recent list of the 68 best teams in college basketball (TCU was #55) and there is no way that finishing tied for last in conference should earn a tournament invitation.
Add:
Oklahoma (7-11)
Minnesota (9-11)
Who aren't even listed in ESPN bracket predictions as 'on the bubble' - instead they are 'in'. We're talking whether a team is at or under .500, but Oklahoma is 4 games under .500 in conference.
This is a little off topic, but I actually had someone challenge me on this,
What is Valpo's travel look like in the Valley? 50/50 bus to plane? What was it when you guys were in the Horizon?
Quote from: RacerJoeD on March 14, 2019, 01:52:56 PM
This is a little off topic, but I actually had someone challenge me on this,
What is Valpo's travel look like in the Valley? 50/50 bus to plane? What was it when you guys were in the Horizon?
Other than Loyola, all of the teams fly the Valparaiso University jet out of Porter County Regional airport. The university started doing this a number of years ago after getting the airport to expand its runway to accommodate the university's A330 jet.
(sorry, I could not resist)
Honestly, I do not know. To get to Valpo by plane I would assume most teams fly into Midway or O'Hare in Chicago. They could possibly fly into South Bend, which would save a fair amount of time, but there are not many flights (if any) from MVC cities to South Bend.
RacerJoe - I have been to Murray and am one of the people that has commented on the remoteness of Murray, KY. Having been there, I should point out that Murray State has really great people and a very nice environment.
I take no offense to the talk about remoteness. We are two hours away from an international airport. That is just a fact. There is a regional airport about 45 mins away from Murray that has direct service to O'Hare.
But to those who would say that is too far, I would ask this question- how long would it take you right now to get to O'hare in a bus if you left right now?
(Normally I do this with Houston as anyone who has ever driven in Houston can attest, wherever you are, you are two hours at least from the airport)
Quote from: valpo95 on March 13, 2019, 10:38:47 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 13, 2019, 08:46:47 PM
The NCAA could make this process a lot easier and a lot more fair with a simple rule -- need to be above .500 in your conference to be eligible for an at-large berth. Anything less, win the auto-bid. It's a completely fair and reasonable standard to meet. At a certain point, you have to win games. Anything else rewards mediocrity.
We were talking about something very similar back in September on this thread: https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2803.msg103971#msg103971
(https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2803.msg103971#msg103971)
I'd suggest that .500 records are eligible for an at-large invitation, as are teams that make their conference championship game (yet might lose). Look at the sample of teams that are in the last 16 under consideration on ESPN's bracketology, with their conference records.
St. John's (8-10)
Texas (8-10)
TCU (7-11)
Ohio State (8-12)
Indiana (8-12)
Alabama (8-10)
Look, I have no problem with a team like Texas getting into the tournament if they get hot in the Big12 tournament and lose a close game to Texas Tech or Kansas. Doing so should earn them consideration.
Yet not all of these teams should be bubble teams - Jay Bilas even listed Butler as #54 in his recent list of the 68 best teams in college basketball (TCU was #55) and there is no way that finishing tied for last in conference should earn a tournament invitation.
It's a good way to get the major conferences to take their ball and go home, but conference records are not a good way to determine eligibility. The Big Ten is infinitely better than basically every league other than the Big 12 and ACC. If you wanted to do a pure hypothetical, a team like a Belmont (ranked 53rd in kenpom) would likely have a very similar season to a team like Indiana (42nd in kenpom) who went 8-12 in conference play if they were to play in the Big Ten. So should they not receive consideration for an at-large bid? Of course not. Schedules are never going to be equal, whether you're a P5 program (The Pac 12 is awful this year), or playing in the SoCon or OVC.
That's why putting a simple "If you're not .500 then you shouldn't get in" might make all the teams from mid-major conferences feel good, but it's not a good way to ensure that the best 68 teams get in the field, and it would put those with all the money and power in a position to cut bait and ruin what isn't the best way to determine a champion, but it's definitely more fun than the NBA.
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 14, 2019, 05:21:41 PMThat's why putting a simple "If you're not .500 then you shouldn't get in" might make all the teams from mid-major conferences feel good, but it's not a good way to ensure that the best 68 teams get in the field, and it would put those with all the money and power in a position to cut bait and ruin what isn't the best way to determine a champion, but it's definitely more fun than the NBA.
The NCAA tournament is NOT about getting the best 68 teams in the field. Most people would consider Butler one of the top 68 teams in the country and they are probably better than any team in the MAAC, SWAC, NEC and perhaps other conferences. Yet
Butler is tied for last in the Big East. There is no way they should get consideration for an at-large bid - OK, they can win their way in via the conference tourney. Yet wouldn't a better tournament include Lipscomb or Belmont rather than Butler? (One could make a similar argument about TCU or Indiana being better than many conference champions.)
The .500 or better rule (or make the conference championship game) is simple, fair and has other advantages. It would put more weight and interest into the conference season. It would also encourage the P5 teams to do a better job of scheduling non-conference games.
Bracketology Bubble Watch: NET rankings could pay dividends to power conference teams
By Jerry Palm Mar 13, 2019
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/bracketology-bubble-watch-net-rankings-could-pay-dividends-to-power-conference-teams/amp/
This Jerry Palm article tells me all I need to know about the impact on the mid major world of using NET instead of RPI.
1. Palm confirms that teams at or near the bottom of the Power conferences are going to benefit disproportionately from NET rankings at the expense of top Mid teams.
2. He confirms something I alluded to yesterday that "Quad-1 wins" is a clever manipulation that mids will never be able to compete against.
3. Adding good mids to the MVC for the purpose of at-large positioning is an even higher risk proposition than it was, resulting inevitably in 12 teams annually competing for 1 bid, and receiving smaller revenue shares as icing on the cake. This serves no ones best interest - current and new members alike.
Quote from: wh on March 14, 2019, 07:32:32 PM
Bracketology Bubble Watch: NET rankings could pay dividends to power conference teams
By Jerry Palm Mar 13, 2019
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/bracketology-bubble-watch-net-rankings-could-pay-dividends-to-power-conference-teams/amp/
This Jerry Palm article tells me all I need to know about the impact on the mid major world of using NET instead of RPI.
1. Palm confirms that teams at or near the bottom of the Power conferences are going to benefit disproportionately from NET rankings at the expense of top Mid teams.
2. He confirms something I alluded to yesterday that "Quad-1 wins" is a clever manipulation that mids will never be able to compete against.
3. Adding good mids to the MVC for the purpose of at-large positioning is an even higher risk proposition than it was, resulting inevitably in 12 teams annually competing for 1 bid, and receiving smaller revenue shares as icing on the cake. This serves no ones best interest - current and new members alike.
I see the points here, but NET is supposed to figure in Quad 1 wins. Honestly, it still is a travesty if teams like Furman (NET 41) and Belmont (Net 46) lose births due to team that are 10+ spots behind in NET (Seton Hall, St. John's, Arizona State).
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 14, 2019, 08:39:29 PM
Quote from: wh on March 14, 2019, 07:32:32 PM
Bracketology Bubble Watch: NET rankings could pay dividends to power conference teams
By Jerry Palm Mar 13, 2019
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/bracketology-bubble-watch-net-rankings-could-pay-dividends-to-power-conference-teams/amp/
This Jerry Palm article tells me all I need to know about the impact on the mid major world of using NET instead of RPI.
1. Palm confirms that teams at or near the bottom of the Power conferences are going to benefit disproportionately from NET rankings at the expense of top Mid teams.
2. He confirms something I alluded to yesterday that "Quad-1 wins" is a clever manipulation that mids will never be able to compete against.
3. Adding good mids to the MVC for the purpose of at-large positioning is an even higher risk proposition than it was, resulting inevitably in 12 teams annually competing for 1 bid, and receiving smaller revenue shares as icing on the cake. This serves no ones best interest - current and new members alike.
I see the points here, but NET is supposed to figure in Quad 1 wins. Honestly, it still is a travesty if teams like Furman (NET 41) and Belmont (Net 46) lose births due to team that are 10+ spots behind in NET (Seton Hall, St. John's, Arizona State).
I couldn't agree more. As the Palm article reveals, power conference teams are already set to receive a huge entry boost from the NET system. Now someone's saying if that doesn't do enough, we'll disregard it. I thought NET was supposed to be more objective, transparent and reliable. I guess we'll know soon enough.
Quote from: wh on March 14, 2019, 09:19:58 PM
I couldn't agree more. As the Palm article reveals, power conference teams are already set to receive a huge entry boost from the NET system. Now someone's saying if that doesn't do enough, we'll disregard it. I thought NET was supposed to be more objective, transparent and reliable. I guess we'll know soon enough.
Nobody outside the NCAA knows what the formula is, so I'd say it's not transparent at all. Maybe there is no formula at all ... some intern could just be ranking the teams every week and nobody would know the difference.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1089318089714470912&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valpofanzone.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D3343.75
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https://twitter.com/happeninghoops?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1089318089714470912&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valpofanzone.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D3343.75
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https://twitter.com/happeninghoops?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1089318089714470912&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valpofanzone.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D3343.75
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1089318089714470912&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.valpofanzone.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D3343.75
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 14, 2019, 02:08:38 PMQuote from: RacerJoeD on March 14, 2019, 01:52:56 PMThis is a little off topic, but I actually had someone challenge me on this, What is Valpo's travel look like in the Valley? 50/50 bus to plane? What was it when you guys were in the Horizon?
Other than Loyola, all of the teams fly the Valparaiso University jet out of Porter County Regional airport. The university started doing this a number of years ago after getting the airport to expand its runway to accommodate the university's A330 jet. (sorry, I could not resist) Honestly, I do not know. To get to Valpo by plane I would assume most teams fly into Midway or O'Hare in Chicago. They could possibly fly into South Bend, which would save a fair amount of time, but there are not many flights (if any) from MVC cities to South Bend. RacerJoe - I have been to Murray and am one of the people that has commented on the remoteness of Murray, KY. Having been there, I should point out that Murray State has really great people and a very nice environment.
Actually we do fly out of the County airport sometimes, and I'm sure some of the teams that play us fly in there also.
[tweet]1106773621559693312[/tweet]
Good that Belmont got in, but St. John's (NET 73) over Furman (NET 41) or Lipscomb (NET 49) is a joke.
Izzo v Wardle. Lol.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 17, 2019, 05:40:37 PMGood that Belmont got in, but St. John's (NET 73) over Furman (NET 41) or Lipscomb (NET 49) is a joke.
Yay for Belmont... The bid that broke the MVC's hope for the future...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 17, 2019, 06:13:15 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 17, 2019, 05:40:37 PMGood that Belmont got in, but St. John's (NET 73) over Furman (NET 41) or Lipscomb (NET 49) is a joke.
Yay for Belmont... The bid that broke the MVC's hope for the future...
And any hope of the SLU admins wising up and moving the Billikens to the Valley vanished for the foreseeable future when they won the A10/14 tournament.
https://twitter.com/AndyFurmanFSR/status/1109960066847916032
only one tweet so far, waiting for some further confirmation. Could also make NKU a landing place for Bryce
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 13, 2019, 09:00:08 PMi was an autobid.
I was once an autobid but then the auctioneer decided I wasn't worth as much as the drug dealer's used car.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 24, 2019, 07:11:40 PMhttps://twitter.com/AndyFurmanFSR/status/1109960066847916032 only one tweet so far, waiting for some further confirmation. Could also make NKU a landing place for Bryce
...and another coach from the Horizon League will find out what it's like making the move to the SEC although I think Bama is in better shape than Vandy was when Bryce made his move.
I still maintain that for consideration for an at-large bid, teams have to have one of the three criteria: Have a .500 record in conference, make the conference tournament final game, be in the top 25 of the AP or USA poll. This is simple and rewards winning, and is consistent with needing 6 wins to go to a bowl game in football. It also would encourage the P5/6 teams schedule tougher non-conference competition. Within the conference, it would further increase the interest in late-season in conference games where some teams are desperately trying to get eligible.
As a brief follow-up, there were four teams that made the field of 68 with below .500 records in conference play (conference records shown). Minnesota (9-11), Ohio State (8-12), and Oklahoma (7-11) all won their first game, and St. Johns (8-10) lost. However, none of the three winners advanced to the Sweet 16.
If these four teams did not make the tournament, one could easily have picked four teams from the following seven (not in any order, conference records shown): Clemson (9-9), NC State (9-9), Lipscomb(14-2), UNC-Greensboro (15-3), Furman (13-5), Colorado (10-8), Memphis (11-7). (There are other possible teams, yet these are some of the most likely candidates).
What is interesting about these seven is that six of them won their first round NIT game (Furman lost to Wichita State 76-70). Several won their second round NIT game, though some were matched with each other so it is hard to do an exact analysis after the first round games were done.
Overall, at least this year, the conclusion is that it would have been OK to exclude the four teams with below .500 records from at-large consideration for the NCAA tournament. The teams that would likely have replaced them would have been credible, both for their regular season records and their performance against decent competition in the NIT.
Metro State (Colorado) rejects WAC invite
Otzelberger taking over at UNLV
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 27, 2019, 12:21:38 PM
Metro State (Colorado) rejects WAC invite
Definition of an extremely weak conference:
You get rejected by a school that is considering a move to D1.
On the subject of the WAC, this board talks a lot about a twelfth team if Belmont were to join. New Mexico State has many positives, with the only possible negatives being travel (need to fly to El Paso and drive 45 minutes) and consistent financial resources. But basketball and other programs seem at a solid level versus current MVC members.
Perhaps some of you have seen this elsewhere, yet there is a nice article detailing about how much each team has contributed in terms of NCAA tournament payoff units. The short version is that the team makes one unit for making the tournament, plus one unit for each win up to the final four. The units pay off over the next six years to the conference.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/March-Madness-NCAA-Payouts-AP-Analysis-507672241.html (https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/March-Madness-NCAA-Payouts-AP-Analysis-507672241.html)
One can contrast the payoffs contributed by VU with other schools. For example, VU making the tournament (and the Sweet 16 wins) added quite a bit to the conference payoff. The payoff for Butler was even higher, or the payoff for Youngstown State was zero.
As pointed out by the article, the payoff to the P5/6 conferences has increased over time.
Nate Oats of Buffalo is taking the Alabama Coaching job not John Brannen.
The Missouri Valley Conference will collect $1.4 million in April and at least $8.45 million total from what Loyola University Chicago earned during its stunning run with Sister Jean to the 2018 Final Four. The conference is still cashing in from Wichita State's Final Four in 2013 as well as Creighton's recent NCAA appearances. Wichita State (American Athletic Conference) and Creighton (Big East) have both left the Missouri Valley, ripple effects from Power Five expansion. Elgin provided AP with MVC financial projections that show annual unit revenue falling from nearly $7.2 million in 2019 to $2.6 million in 2025.
The MVC hopes to cushion some of that fall through NCAA changes that will redirect a small percentage of money toward academic targets.
Conferences such as the Atlantic 10, Conference USA and the Mountain West could be in a similar situation. They regularly sent multiple teams to the tournament, recently their bids have dwindled and soon, so will their payouts.
And the MVC refused to add Murray State why again?
Full article here: https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/2019/03/26/money-madness-ap-analysis-shows-growing-gap-in-ncaa-payouts/
The National Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame named its new class of inductees, which includes Coach Homer Drew: congrats! :clap: :clap: :clap:
[tweet]1113080896322703360[/tweet]
QuoteWho is the winningest school? Who has been the bridesmaid the most?
Stats don't lie! The major programs certainly fill out the top schools when it comes to championship games, and none more than Duke. Five titles and four runners-up results are the most number of championship games by far. UNC and the Huskies round out the top three titles with four apiece, while Michigan are the biggest bridesmaid.
Jason Zivkovic
(https://www.dontblamethedata.com/post/2019-03-03-an-intimate-look-at-the-men-s-ncaa-basketball_files/figure-html/win_lose_plot-1.png)
This didn't take long.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26889595/sun-belt-scraps-pod-plan-revamp-scheduling
3 point line moving back: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26905011/ncaa-moving-3-point-line-back-next-season
https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/1138090101291061248?s=21
I, i, I just can't feel bad for the guy.
Agree..."The King" lost his court
Whether you have sympathy for him or not, he's not wrong about how this transfer portal has strayed well away from what it was intended to be, and how it essentially enables schools to illegally recruit other team's players during the season.
Enjoyed listening to Kampe. It really is a very different world versus just a few years ago. The idea that players are being recruited during the season is just amazing and certainly goes for our guys as well. He said that he no longer will redshirt players. This makes sense as does not bringing kids for classes during the summer. Back in the day it took four years to graduate and if a kid insists on taking summer classes then the handwriting is clearly on the wall.
Verbal Commits now has the total transfers in D1 at 894 and probably will top 900 for the first time ever. Something has to change but probably won't. It is the "me first" generation.
Quote from: vu72 on June 17, 2019, 09:05:51 AM
Enjoyed listening to Kampe. It really is a very different world versus just a few years ago. The idea that players are being recruited during the season is just amazing and certainly goes for our guys as well. He said that he no longer will redshirt players. This makes sense as does not bringing kids for classes during the summer. Back in the day it took four years to graduate and if a kid insists on taking summer classes then the handwriting is clearly on the wall.
Verbal Commits now has the total transfers in D1 at 894 and probably will top 900 for the first time ever. Something has to change but probably won't. It is the "me first" generation.
I don't think it's a "me first" generation as much as kids trying to maximize their college experience, whatever that means to them. Agree somewhat that a lack of patience is part of the problem, but Valpo's done well in the transfer market, and has 3 guys who will likely play significant roles next season who transferred in.
The in-season recruiting happens at all levels too, but obviously it hurts mid-majors more because they don't have the depth of talent or resources, but because it's all done via back channels (telling high school or AAU coaches there would be a spot for them that they then pass on to the player), it's extremely hard to crack down on.
I understand we want kids to have freedom to transfer but it's borderline rediculous how many transfers there are and the level of cheating/poaching has become. The NCAA granting instant eligibility waivers now makes it even more of a clown show.
Future Oakland recruit
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1141015890680569856?s=21
QuoteHe said that he no longer will redshirt players. This makes sense as does not bringing kids for classes during the summer.
I've said it on here before and I'll say it again: with this new transfer portal, any midmajor coach who redshirts a kid for any reason other than injury or academic eligibility issues is out of their mind.
UMKC back to the Summit League. Good move for them. Balancing out Augustana? What happens to Chicago State? Also what does this mean for the WAC? I know they have Dixie State coming in but they'll need to balance somehow. I'm surprised Denver doesn't go to the WAC. I feel like it makes more sense for them than the Summit.
https://twitter.com/RCFOX4KC/status/1141878517422002182
No one in their right mind wants to go the WAC, except as a necessity to have a conference. UMKC was moronic for making that move. Chicago State had no other options. Denver will not move to the WAC, as the Summit has rounded into a nice league overall, and a somewhat stable geography for them.
End-of-Season and Tourney Win% (Highest to Lowest) for all 353 teams, 2018-2019 Season per Sports-Reference:
School W-L%
Virginia NCAA 0.921
Gonzaga NCAA 0.892
Houston NCAA 0.892
Buffalo NCAA 0.889
New Mexico State NCAA 0.857
Wofford NCAA 0.857
Nevada NCAA 0.853
Murray State NCAA 0.848
Duke NCAA 0.842
UC-Irvine NCAA 0.838
Tennessee NCAA 0.838
Michigan State NCAA 0.821
Belmont NCAA 0.818
Texas Tech NCAA 0.816
Kentucky NCAA 0.811
Michigan NCAA 0.811
Liberty NCAA 0.806
North Carolina-Greensboro 0.806
North Carolina NCAA 0.806
Cincinnati NCAA 0.800
Louisiana State NCAA 0.800
Utah State NCAA 0.800
Abilene Christian NCAA 0.794
Vermont NCAA 0.794
Florida State NCAA 0.784
Lipscomb 0.784
Hofstra 0.771
Furman 0.758
Toledo 0.758
Virginia Commonwealth NCAA 0.758
Auburn NCAA 0.750
Washington NCAA 0.750
Montana NCAA 0.743
Northern Kentucky NCAA 0.743
Old Dominion NCAA 0.743
Virginia Tech NCAA 0.743
Kansas State NCAA 0.735
Yale NCAA 0.733
Central Florida NCAA 0.727
College of Charleston 0.727
Jacksonville State 0.727
South Dakota State 0.727
Stony Brook 0.727
Kansas NCAA 0.722
Purdue NCAA 0.722
Villanova NCAA 0.722
Fresno State 0.719
Utah Valley 0.714
Davidson 0.706
Drake 0.706
East Tennessee State 0.706
Georgia State NCAA 0.706
Marquette NCAA 0.706
Texas State 0.706
Temple NCAA 0.697
UC-Santa Barbara 0.688
Colgate NCAA 0.686
San Francisco 0.677
Arizona State NCAA 0.676
Maryland NCAA 0.676
Mississippi State NCAA 0.676
Northeastern NCAA 0.676
Wisconsin NCAA 0.676
Austin Peay 0.667
Kent State 0.667
North Carolina State 0.667
Radford 0.667
Oregon NCAA 0.658
Central Michigan 0.657
Gardner-Webb NCAA 0.657
Iowa State NCAA 0.657
Iowa NCAA 0.657
Omaha 0.656
Northern Colorado 0.656
Bowling Green State 0.647
Loyola Marymount 0.647
Saint Mary's (CA) NCAA 0.647
Lehigh 0.645
Colorado 0.639
Saint Louis NCAA 0.639
Bucknell 0.636
Dayton 0.636
Georgia Southern 0.636
North Texas 0.636
Sam Houston State 0.636
South Florida 0.632
Texas Southern 0.632
NJIT 0.629
Prairie View NCAA 0.629
Brown 0.625
Marshall 0.622
Texas Christian 0.622
Maryland-Baltimore County 0.618
San Diego State 0.618
St. John's (NY) NCAA 0.618
Harvard 0.613
Pennsylvania 0.613
Memphis 0.611
Minnesota NCAA 0.611
Norfolk State 0.611
Campbell 0.606
Lamar 0.606
Louisiana Tech 0.606
Mississippi NCAA 0.606
Southern Mississippi 0.606
Fairleigh Dickinson NCAA 0.600
Winthrop 0.600
Wright State 0.600
Wichita State 0.595
Brigham Young 0.594
Duquesne 0.594
Louisiana 0.594
North Carolina A&T 0.594
Baylor NCAA 0.588
Clemson 0.588
Florida International 0.588
Grand Canyon 0.588
Louisville NCAA 0.588
Loyola (IL) 0.588
Oklahoma NCAA 0.588
Seton Hall NCAA 0.588
Syracuse NCAA 0.588
Western Kentucky 0.588
San Diego 0.583
Hawaii 0.581
Oregon State 0.581
Georgetown 0.576
New Orleans 0.576
Alabama-Birmingham 0.571
Bradley NCAA 0.571
Creighton 0.571
Ohio State NCAA 0.571
Princeton 0.571
Texas 0.568
Tulsa 0.563
Florida NCAA 0.556
Presbyterian 0.556
Green Bay 0.553
Nevada-Las Vegas 0.548
Utah 0.548
George Mason 0.545
Hartford 0.545
Purdue-Fort Wayne 0.545
Rhode Island 0.545
Saint Francis (PA) 0.545
Seattle 0.545
Weber State 0.545
Indiana 0.543
Louisiana-Monroe 0.543
North Dakota State NCAA 0.543
Xavier 0.543
Texas-Rio Grande Valley 0.541
Arizona 0.531
Southern Illinois 0.531
Texas-San Antonio 0.531
Alabama 0.529
Arkansas 0.529
Cal State Bakersfield 0.529
Charleston Southern 0.529
North Carolina Central NCAA 0.529
Providence 0.529
St. Bonaventure 0.529
DePaul 0.528
Nebraska 0.528
California Baptist 0.516
High Point 0.516
Quinnipiac 0.516
Rider 0.516
Santa Clara 0.516
Akron 0.515
Delaware 0.515
Florida Atlantic 0.515
Illinois State 0.515
Iona NCAA 0.515
Samford 0.515
Siena 0.515
Southeastern Louisiana 0.515
St. Francis (NY) 0.515
Texas-Arlington 0.515
UCLA 0.515
Hampton 0.514
Robert Morris 0.514
American 0.500
Coastal Carolina 0.500
Grambling 0.500
Howard 0.500
Illinois-Chicago 0.500
Long Island University 0.500
Missouri State 0.500
Northern Illinois 0.500
Portland State 0.500
South Alabama 0.500
South Carolina 0.500
Southern Utah 0.500
Ball State 0.485
Butler 0.485
Connecticut 0.485
Holy Cross 0.485
IUPUI 0.485
North Florida 0.485
Oakland 0.485
Southern California 0.485
Cornell 0.484
Indiana State 0.484
Sacramento State 0.484
Stanford 0.484
Cal State Fullerton 0.471
Eastern Washington 0.471
Longwood 0.471
Northern Iowa 0.471
Pepperdine 0.471
Canisius 0.469
Eastern Michigan 0.469
Massachusetts-Lowell 0.469
Miami (OH) 0.469
Missouri 0.469
Montana State 0.469
Sacred Heart 0.469
Southern Methodist 0.469
Stephen F. Austin 0.467
Boston University 0.455
Valparaiso 0.455
Bethune-Cookman 0.452
Boston College 0.452
Nicholls State 0.452
Ohio 0.452
Rutgers 0.452
William & Mary 0.452
Long Beach State 0.441
Air Force 0.438
Eastern Illinois 0.438
Florida Gulf Coast 0.438
Georgia Tech 0.438
Miami (FL) 0.438
New Mexico 0.438
Pacific 0.438
Penn State 0.438
Texas A&M-Corpus Christi 0.438
Texas A&M 0.438
South Dakota 0.433
Wagner 0.433
Central Arkansas 0.424
James Madison 0.424
Notre Dame 0.424
Pittsburgh 0.424
Saint Joseph's 0.424
Eastern Kentucky 0.419
West Virginia 0.417
Arkansas-Pine Bluff 0.406
Arkansas State 0.406
Army 0.406
Drexel 0.406
Jackson State 0.406
Niagara 0.406
Northwestern 0.406
Rice 0.406
Citadel 0.400
Houston Baptist 0.400
Monmouth 0.400
North Dakota 0.400
Troy 0.400
Boise State 0.394
Morehead State 0.394
Richmond 0.394
Alabama State 0.387
Florida A&M 0.387
Marist 0.387
Navy 0.387
Tennessee-Martin 0.387
Cal State Northridge 0.382
Albany (NY) 0.375
Chattanooga 0.375
Colorado State 0.375
Fordham 0.375
Jacksonville 0.375
Oklahoma State 0.375
Youngstown State 0.375
Dartmouth 0.367
Idaho State 0.367
Illinois 0.364
Columbia 0.357
UC-Davis 0.355
Central Connecticut State 0.355
Detroit Mercy 0.355
Mercer 0.355
Northwestern State 0.355
Savannah State 0.355
Wake Forest 0.355
Appalachian State 0.344
Elon 0.344
Evansville 0.344
Georgia 0.344
Loyola (MD) 0.344
Manhattan 0.344
Massachusetts 0.344
Middle Tennessee 0.344
Missouri-Kansas City 0.344
Oral Roberts 0.344
VMI 0.344
Washington State 0.344
Bryant 0.333
Lafayette 0.333
Alcorn State 0.323
Little Rock 0.323
Cleveland State 0.323
East Carolina 0.323
La Salle 0.323
Northern Arizona 0.323
Southeast Missouri State 0.323
SIU Edwardsville 0.323
Western Illinois 0.323
North Alabama 0.313
Saint Peter's 0.313
Towson 0.313
Binghamton 0.303
UC-Riverside 0.303
North Carolina-Wilmington 0.303
Morgan State 0.300
Tennessee State 0.300
Fairfield 0.290
McNeese State 0.290
Milwaukee 0.290
Mount St. Mary's 0.290
Vanderbilt 0.281
Charlotte 0.276
Texas-El Paso 0.276
George Washington 0.273
Denver 0.267
University of California 0.258
Tennessee Tech 0.258
Western Michigan 0.250
Wyoming 0.250
Coppin State 0.242
South Carolina State 0.235
Stetson 0.226
Maryland-Eastern Shore 0.219
Portland 0.219
Southern 0.219
Western Carolina 0.219
Cal Poly 0.207
Delaware State 0.194
Incarnate Word 0.194
Kennesaw State 0.188
Mississippi Valley State 0.188
South Carolina Upstate 0.188
New Hampshire 0.172
Alabama A&M 0.156
Idaho 0.156
Maine 0.156
North Carolina-Asheville 0.129
San Jose State 0.129
Tulane 0.129
Chicago State 0.094 |
SERIOUS UCONN to BE smoke:
https://csnbbs.com/thread-878013.html
http://www.digitalsportsdesk.com/ncaa-basketball/big-east/uconn-to-return-to-big-east/
https://twitter.com/goodmanhoops/status/1142444127088455680?s=21
https://twitter.com/ManthonyCourant/status/1142437482996346880
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1142444801025085440
https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-sp-uconn-big-east-conference-aac-20190622-20190622-qgewcp6jhvd5fd4lenxr5vnncm-story.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-u-conn-move-to-the-big-east-inevitable-151200471.html
Denials abound but if stuff like this reaches such high levels and there are votes that are going to happen this looks like a fait accompli. My guess? AAC adds Army\VCU or ODU A10 adds somebody like ODU or maybe Vermont and the CAA\AE add somebody out east. Not sure if this impacts or informs other moves in other regions but the chess pieces will move on the Eastern Seaboard\Atlantic region. Perhaps this closes the door on the BE for Dayton and SLU and makes the MVC a player? The loss of VCU would severely weaken the A-10 and if the AAC takes ODU, which would be the A10's top alternative to VCU I bet, then maybe the western members start to rethink their conference positions. Remember adding UCONN would allow the BE an 11 team 20 game double round robin further hindering scheduling for mids.
Oh God... This thought just entered my head... If the steps are
UCONN (BE)
ARMY (FB) VCU (Olympic) AAC
Watch Loyola for the A10
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 22, 2019, 10:49:27 AM
Oh God... This thought just entered my head... If the steps are
UCONN (BE)
ARMY (FB) VCU (Olympic) AAC
Watch Loyola for the A10
Why does the loss of Loyola make you say "Oh God"? Not for nothing, but they made the NCAA tournament one time in more than 30-years....
I'll grant you their 2018 success but it's not yet sustained. I think the far more difficult job of sustained success has yet to be accomplished. Valpo received a ton of national exposure after their Sweet 16 but the hardest work came in the following 20-years.
I have a hard time believing that 1999 Valpo MBB was going to get a shot at the MVC because of a few good years. So why does Loyola get the opportunity after only two winning seasons? Certainly these are only my opinions, by "Oh God" seems like you dread the day? Why this level of concern, even if Loyola gets lucky?
Loyola gets consideration not because of the short success as of late but for being in Chicago, large endowment, good academics and improving facilities.
Those are the same reasons they got the invite for mvc.
I don't think the A10 is that big of a threat to steal the Loyola. If the Big east came call, sure we would lose them. Haven't heard any chatter about that though. I haven't even heard any in the media propose LU to the A10.
I think conference consolidation is eventually inevitable down the road, but I actually think the MVC is in a decent spot in terms of being a quality mid-major conference for the near future.
https://twitter.com/michaelsobrien/status/1142085927227076613
Quote from: VU2014 on June 22, 2019, 03:35:16 PMI don't think the A10 is that big of a threat to steal the Loyola. If the Big east came call, sure we would lose them. Haven't heard any chatter about that though. I haven't even heard any in the media propose LU to the A10.
Actually it makes a lot of sense for the Big East to stay at 11 teams. It sets up a natural 20 game conference schedule that other P5 are jumping through hoops to achieve.
Quote from: VU75 on June 23, 2019, 08:01:47 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 22, 2019, 03:35:16 PMI don't think the A10 is that big of a threat to steal the Loyola. If the Big east came call, sure we would lose them. Haven't heard any chatter about that though. I haven't even heard any in the media propose LU to the A10.
Actually it makes a lot of sense for the Big East to stay at 11 teams. It sets up a natural 20 game conference schedule that other P5 are jumping through hoops to achieve.
It also greatly reduces good mid-major programs opportunities to play P6 programs and get a statement win. Make no mistake this is stategic and not just a business move for more tv content.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 22, 2019, 03:35:16 PM
I don't think the A10 is that big of a threat to steal the Loyola. If the Big east came call, sure we would lose them. Haven't heard any chatter about that though. I haven't even heard any in the media propose LU to the A10.
I think conference consolidation is eventually inevitable down the road, but I actually think the MVC is in a decent spot in terms of being a quality mid-major conference for the near future.
If the AAC comes for VCU (possibility, but rumor has it the AAC is staying at 11 for now), then I could see the A10 coming for Loyola, which could be interesting to see if they would stay.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 23, 2019, 08:11:11 PM
It also greatly reduces good mid-major programs opportunities to play P6 programs and get a statement win. Make no mistake this is stategic and not just a business move for more tv content.
It's more of a move to try and protect their own bids and expand the TV money, which is essentially what you said as well. League now has 20 league games, challenges with the Big Ten and Big 12, and 3-4 early season tourney games. Under the current scheduling limitations, it's going to be darn near impossible for a mid-major school to get a home game against any power program.
Chatter on MVC Fans is that the SEC and Big XII are planning realignment moves of their own. This could get ugly for the American. My guess is that the SEC is going for some combination of Texas\Oklahoma (maybe Oklahoma State) Cincinnati or West Virginia while the Big XII is eyeing Cincinnati Houston Memphis the Florida schools and possibly Temple
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 25, 2019, 10:49:29 AM
Chatter on MVC Fans is that the SEC and Big XII are planning realignment moves of their own. This could get ugly for the American. My guess is that the SEC is going for some combination of Texas\Oklahoma (maybe Oklahoma State) Cincinnati or West Virginia while the Big XII is eyeing Cincinnati Houston Memphis the Florida schools and possibly Temple
The Missouri State AD giving his opinion on things doesn't make me think anything is imminent. Especially when the Big 12 already looked at all those schools 3 years ago and said thanks, but no thanks. The media rights deals for these leagues are coming up within the next 3-5 years, so maybe there will be some movement at that time.
Given that the AAC's deal is $7 million per school for both football and basketball and was just completed, it doesn't appear that there's a strong demand for any program in that league to go to a power conference, so while I'll never say never, I'd say it's unlikely that any major changes are coming to the American soon.
I do think it's in the best interest of the AAC to add at least one split school in a Navy\Wichita State type of situation. For example pairings like
BYU\VCU
Army\Dayton
Air Force\Davidson
With Rhode Island SLU or Loyola as additional possibilities. Makes a lot of sense and is good for the league's over all strength. In fact I think that is the order I would rank them in terms of most appealing to least:
Football:
BYU
Army
Air Force
Full Members (UAB ODU UMASS)
Basketball:
VCU
Dayton
Davidson
SLU
Loyola
Full Members (UAB ODU UMASS)
(SLU and Loyola can certainly be debated and flipped). SLU makes more geographic sense and has fairly recent history with some of the AAC members but Loyola has the bigger market and has been better recently. As an MVC fan, I would be rooting for the AAC to be super aggressive here. The more quality teams the A10 loses without SLU hearing their name called makes them more likely to give up on the high travel costs of the A10 and embrace the comparable (especially if the A10 loses one or two of its best members) but much friendlier travel situation of the MVC. Mix in Murray State and you have an excellent league and Missouri State doesn't feel quite as isolated because the two additions came in the western part of the footprint. It increases cohesion and tightness of the footprint.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 25, 2019, 04:18:26 PM
I do think it's in the best interest of the AAC to add at least one split school in a Navy\Wichita State type of situation. For example pairings like
BYU\VCU
Army\Dayton
Air Force\Davidson
With Rhode Island SLU or Loyola as additional possibilities. Makes a lot of sense and is good for the league's over all strength. In fact I think that is the order I would rank them in terms of most appealing to least:
Football:
BYU
Army
Air Force
Full Members (UAB ODU UMASS)
Basketball:
VCU
Dayton
Davidson
SLU
Loyola
Full Members (UAB ODU UMASS)
(SLU and Loyola can certainly be debated and flipped). SLU makes more geographic sense and has fairly recent history with some of the AAC members but Loyola has the bigger market and has been better recently. As an MVC fan, I would be rooting for the AAC to be super aggressive here. The more quality teams the A10 loses without SLU hearing their name called makes them more likely to give up on the high travel costs of the A10 and embrace the comparable (especially if the A10 loses one or two of its best members) but much friendlier travel situation of the MVC. Mix in Murray State and you have an excellent league and Missouri State doesn't feel quite as isolated because the two additions came in the western part of the footprint. It increases cohesion and tightness of the footprint.
BYU would be the ultimate home run, but I believe their exclusive media rights deal with ESPN already pays them as much if not more than the AAC's just for football.
Don't see Dayton as an add because of Cincinnati, and honestly other than adding Army for football, I don't see any realistic option that would add anything to their league in basketball that would bring in enough funds for the league to want to go past 11 teams and going to a 20 game round robin. Maybe VCU, but I'd be surprised if that even happened.
For the Valley, the most realistic and best option is going to be Murray State and going to a 20 game league schedule as well, IMO. I do think some urgency for this is warranted to at least make this move in the next couple of years, but only because of the scheduling challenges that are going to impact all mid-major leagues now that the Big 10, ACC, Big East and eventually SEC and PAC 12 go to 20 game league schedules.
That was one of the things I kept bringing up too. The B10 did it last year the ACC is doing it this year and BE will do it next year I am pretty sure the PAC 12 and SEC are looking at it too. We need to make a move to help ourselves a bit as well if not for bids simply for scheduling and keeping fan interest and attendance high.
No f'ing way that UT is going to the SEC. The PAC-12 tried to get the UT/OU combo a few years back, but would not let UT have the large share of TV revenue that they required. The SEC would not give them such a deal, either, so it just won't happen. UT is in a great position in owning the lion's share of decision-making in the Big 12.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 26, 2019, 12:26:01 PM
That was one of the things I kept bringing up too. The B10 did it last year the ACC is doing it this year and BE will do it next year I am pretty sure the PAC 12 and SEC are looking at it too. We need to make a move to help ourselves a bit as well if not for bids simply for scheduling and keeping fan interest and attendance high.
Agreed. I do think it's smart for the MVC to wait as I don't see any other leagues lining up to take the Racers, but you also don't want to wait too long. Rather the league be proactive than reactive.
How does the Mark Cuban quote go,
"Pigs get fat, but hogs get slaughtered"?
In reference to the UT conversation and the TV revenue. UT will be fine no matter what, they might hurt themselves the next round of Big 12 conversations come rolling around their fellow members get annoyed. The TV contract was the only thing holding that conference together a few years ago. I'm curious if it disbands eventually and we get a Power 4 ($) conferences down the road.
https://espn991.com/purdue-fort-wayne-leaving-the-summit-league-for-horizon-league/
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1158496677931704320
https://twitter.com/GoMastodons/status/1158455712734994434
Purdue Fort Wayne to the Horizon League. This raises some questions:
Is Augustana going to D1 by next year to offset this loss for the Summit League? (they only have five baseball members if the Mastadons leave)
Is this in pursuit of an 11\20 schedule for the Horizon League or is another school (such as Robert Morris as has long been rumored) joining the Mastadons?
Is this a reaction to a school leaving? (NKU? Wright State? Milwaukee? UIC? Oakland?) Is the MVC finally getting Murray State and its +1 from one of these teams? (This seems unlikely because we haven't heard anything to suggest this but the MVC is always super tight lipped about these things so maybe it's possible).
MVC Teams in the top 144
86 UNI
100 Missouri State
114 Bradley
130 Loyola
Here are the writeups:
Loyola:
https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/17595
Bradley:
https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/17615
Missouri State:
https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/17655
UNI:
https://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/17699
South Dakota's AD on Augustana possibly joining the Summit League. Sounds like the league presidents will meet in Sioux Falls in November to discuss the issue.
https://kwsn.com/news/articles/2019/aug/08/usds-herbster-summit-schools-not-bully-on-augie-joining-yet/926072/
http://usdcoyotesports.proboards.com/thread/2163/summit-league-expansion?page=37
Growing chatter about St Thomas (Minnesota) joining the Pioneer League for football and the Summit League for other sports. They are a D3 school so the process of getting to D1 may be complicated but they are a bit of a special case because they were just booted from their conference for being too successful. Augustana is considering a similar route. It'll be interesting to see what this might do for these schools in the short and long term. Would these schools stay in the Pioneer League long-term or would they do this just to get to D1 and give the Summit League time to negotiate the potential start of a football league. With Augustana and or St Thomas alongside the four Dakota schools and Western Illinois they would surely have enough to start their own league and might potentially recruit some Big Sky schools as well. It's mostly theoretical because it raises a lot of questions:
1. Would St Thomas and Augustana want or be able to handle the expense of football scholarships?
2. Would the Dakotas and WIU want to give up playing UNI and Illinois State?
3. That could be offset if schools like Montana and Montana State would be willing to join but I can't see why they would desire that. The travel probably isn't any better for them even if the quality of competition would be (This move would also send WIU running for another conference like the OVC or back to the MVFC but if they went back to the MVFC where would they park their olympic sports? Going to the Dakotas is one thing but Montana? Can't see how they'd be interested.
The simplest and easiest answer is that none of this shuffling probably happens vis a vis football. Schools going D1 and parking football in the Pioneer League would be doing so because they can't handle the scholarship costs. That's not something that is easily rectifiable. I think Summit League football as much as it is spoken about on message boards will not become a reality .
St. Thomas was a stout D3 baseball team, when I was playing. We had a guy transfer to that school, who would have done well at Valpo his SO to SR years, but wanted to be closer to home.
Good to see that The Summit League continues to round into a stable geographic conference. I wish no ill will towards our former long-time conference.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 15, 2019, 12:35:15 AM
http://usdcoyotesports.proboards.com/thread/2163/summit-league-expansion?page=37
Growing chatter about St Thomas (Minnesota) joining the Pioneer League for football and the Summit League for other sports. They are a D3 school so the process of getting to D1 may be complicated but they are a bit of a special case because they were just booted from their conference for being too successful. Augustana is considering a similar route. It'll be interesting to see what this might do for these schools in the short and long term. Would these schools stay in the Pioneer League long-term or would they do this just to get to D1 and give the Summit League time to negotiate the potential start of a football league. With Augustana and or St Thomas alongside the four Dakota schools and Western Illinois they would surely have enough to start their own league and might potentially recruit some Big Sky schools as well. It's mostly theoretical because it raises a lot of questions:
1. Would St Thomas and Augustana want or be able to handle the expense of football scholarships?
2. Would the Dakotas and WIU want to give up playing UNI and Illinois State?
3. That could be offset if schools like Montana and Montana State would be willing to join but I can't see why they would desire that. The travel probably isn't any better for them even if the quality of competition would be (This move would also send WIU running for another conference like the OVC or back to the MVFC but if they went back to the MVFC where would they park their olympic sports? Going to the Dakotas is one thing but Montana? Can't see how they'd be interested.
The simplest and easiest answer is that none of this shuffling probably happens vis a vis football. Schools going D1 and parking football in the Pioneer League would be doing so because they can't handle the scholarship costs. That's not something that is easily rectifiable. I think Summit League football as much as it is spoken about on message boards will not become a reality .
Augie plays D2 football so they would have decide whether to add scholarships or go to the PFL model.
I would love to add them to the PFL.
In general it doesn't hurt to have additional D-1 in the Midwest.
Having lives in Minnesota for many years, I can attest to the success of the St. Thomas football program. They have many similarities to a school like Valpo as to size, academic emphasis etc. They would be a very tough new member of the Pioneer. Being D3 is in many ways similar to D1 non-scholarship. Having said that, why not? The Pioneer League could change its slogan to "we play in all corners of the country" From California to New York and from Minnesota to Florida!
Tension growing in the Summit League? What would\could it mean for the non-Dakota members?
https://letsgodu.com/2019/08/13/cozy-summit-league-relationships-cast-dark-shadow-over-augustana/
Augie is a private school. It attracts from well outside the USD/SDSU demo. Logic tells me that in the end that is a good thing for the Summit. Plus we are talking about a 2000 enrollment vs. 5 figures for the state schools.
Augustana expected to go D1 (likely to the SL) in 2021
https://bismarcktribune.com/sports/local/nsic-commissioner-lind-confident-of-league-s-future-despite-augie/article_757207cd-aa61-51aa-a794-7d595c7d0a04.html
St Thomas of St Paul, MN, (kicked out of their D-III conference for being too good) might replace Auggie In that D-II conference. Some posters on the PFL fan board suggested that the Tommies would be a great PFL addition (maintaining the non-scholarship FB program) but that would be really complicated. There is a better option if Auggie goes to the Summit and changes to non-scholarship FB.
St. Thomas in the Pioneer? Valpo would get destroyed....
btw - if the Tommies go Div. 1, it is only the second team in the state to go Div. 1.
Jason Gardner, head coach at IUPUI is out as their coach after being arrested over the weekend for DUI.
Quote from: valpo64 on August 27, 2019, 04:46:55 PM
Jason Gardner, head coach at IUPUI is out as their coach after being arrested over the weekend for DUI.
I wonder if he stuck his leg out and fell down while taking the breathalizer test.
Sorry, I could not resist.
Quote from: valpo64 on August 27, 2019, 04:46:55 PM
Jason Gardner, head coach at IUPUI is out as their coach after being arrested over the weekend for DUI.
He has a large family. I used to work with his mother-in-law at one time. I'm sure this is a very painful situation for all involved.
Indiana University–Purdue University Indianapolis men's basketball coach Jason Gardner was arrested on suspicion of operating a vehicle while intoxicated in Hamilton County.
According to officials at Hamilton County Jail, Gardner was booked into the jail over the weekend and released early Tuesday on his own recognizance. He was taken into custody by the Fishers Police Department.
Gardner resigned from his post at IUPUI Tuesday, Assistant Athletic Director Ed Holdaway confirmed. Holdaway said it was a mutual decision between Gardner and the university, adding "we certainly wish him the best."
The OWI investigation began around 4:30 a.m. Sunday when police were called to the intersection of Cumberland Road and Bruddy Drive to check on the welfare of a man driving a 2016 Nissan.
Officers were there on a report that the vehicle had stopped in the intersection for unknown reasons.
Officers from the Fishers Police Department arrived at the scene and found Gardner asleep behind the wheel, police said. After multiple unsuccessful attempts to wake Gardner, officers entered the Nissan and took it out of gear.
Police said Gardner was asked to step out of the vehicle, and officers noticed that he was staggering and smelled of alcohol. Gardner submitted to multiple field sobriety test and failed each one.
Gardner, the 1999 IndyStar Mr. Basketball out of North Central High School, is entering his sixth season as IUPUI's head coach and has a 64-93 career record. Fox59 reports that assistant head coach Byron Rimm II has been named interim head coach for the 2019-2020 season.
Rimm II was hired Nov. 2018 as associate head coach and has 11 years of head coaching experience. He was head coach at Prairie View A&M from 2006-15. He directed Cal State San Bernardino to a No. 3 national ranking in NCAA Division II during the 2000 campaign and then took over as the head women's basketball coach at Texas College in Tyler, Texas.
IUPUI head coach Jason Gardner reacts after a basket against Indiana State at the Fairgrounds Coliseum Friday November 14, 2014.
IUPUI head coach Jason Gardner reacts after a basket against Indiana State at the Fairgrounds Coliseum Friday November 14, 2014.
CHRIS BERGIN/INDYSTAR
He then had a four-year run as the head men's coach at Jarvis Christian College before joining Prairie View A&M as an assistant for the 2005-06 season. He was promoted to the head coaching spot the following season at age 32.
Gardner played college ball at the University of Arizona. According to IndyStar archives, after a professional playing career in Europe, Gardner served as an assistant coach at Cathedral High School for the 2010-11 season.
He then spent two seasons as an assistant at Loyola and then became an assistant coach at Memphis. He took over the IUPUI head coaching job in 2014 after former coach Todd Howard was fired.
His Mr. Basketball run saw him lead the North Central Panthers to the Class 4A championship. He went on to earn All-America honors at Arizona, where his No. 22 jersey was retired. He finished his career third on the school's all-time scoring chart.
Call IndyStar reporter Justin L. Mack at 317-444-6138. Follow him on Twitter: @justinlmack.
Contact IndyStar reporter Elizabeth DePompei at 317-444-6196 or edepompei@indystar.com. Follow her on Twitter: @edepompei.
Originally Published 7:51 am EDT August 27, 2019
Updated 4:47 pm EDT August 27, 2019
Gardner should be incredibly grateful to the police officer for finding him and arresting him. This prevented Gardner possibly harming himself and anyone else.
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 30, 2019, 01:30:17 PM
Gardner should be incredibly grateful to the police officer for finding him and arresting him. This prevented Gardner possibly harming himself and anyone else.
I'll agree with that. Jason put himself in danger and will pay the price. I'm thinking of those kids I saw in the picture sitting on their grandmother's desk. He had at least 4 kids in 2011.
Great article on coaches' opinions on how the tournament can (or should) be reformed. There appears to be lots of concern for mid majors among the coaching ranks but we'll see if that translates to anything. Of course, we shouldn't hold our breath but maybe the national attention articles like this can bring will have some small effect on the committee.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/candid-coaches-what-is-your-no-1-issue-with-the-ncaa-tournament-selection-process/
This is interesting, and also unsurprising. I wonder if this gambit will succeed for NMSU. According to a poster in the linked thread, Memphis tried this to get into the old Big East which was of course unsuccessful.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-882122.html
Trouble for the WAC incoming?
https://letsgodu.com/2019/08/30/wac-wobbles-as-chicago-state-circles-the-drain/
Lol suuuuurrrrrreeeee.....
https://es.pn/2ZKtzO0
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 06, 2019, 08:55:03 AM
Trouble for the WAC incoming?
https://letsgodu.com/2019/08/30/wac-wobbles-as-chicago-state-circles-the-drain/
The guy from New Mexico State said it was all here say or maybe it's there say since it's coming from Chicago. Or maybe it's hearsay or heardsay or heresaid or heardsaid.
(I had to re-mispel three words that auto-correct fixed in that paragraph)
Maybe I can retire and become a realignmentologist in my older years. But then some people will think I'm an auto mechanic specialist.
Seriously, WTF Kansas...?
Class went out the window years ago with this corrupt "program"...
https://twitter.com/bentonasmith/status/1180302817891930112?s=21
AD had to publicly apologize. Said he should have monitored the act in greater detail instead of just relying on verbal instructions for a clean version of the typical Snoop show. He got all the lyrics he didn't want plus some pole dancing.
https://twitter.com/AlexMSilverman/status/1205171778412318720?s=20&fbclid=IwAR0Q1UFPkZaUcnHzuQzLGiXnwL_4xHAPEE5ehBcJ8y769PoWgPynPw2EIdg
https://twitter.com/njh287/status/1205159081880756224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1205159081880756224&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890306.html
This could have implications for the MVC. If the AAC adds a 12th team as a FB only and a corresponding Olympic sports move this is a very likely scenario:
Air Force (FB) and VCU (Olympic) to AAC
Loyola to A10
Murray State (Please for the love of God) to MVC If it's anyone else then we've given up on ever being a 2 bid league ever again which is a freaking stupid thing to do if the OVC could get two with Belmont getting in. Beyond that there probably won't be any expansion nor should there be. The best attainable programs right now are Wright State and NKU and neither of them have proven that they can move the needle in March. I know the A10 said no more midwestern adds after Butler left but that was back when Loyola absolutely sucked in the HL before they got to the MVC committed themselves to excellence in athletics and made a final 4. Now, having a school that has a recent history of winning in March and being a hot name in a huge market that is an institutional fit is a slam dunk for the A10. If you think those schools would not want a presence in Chicago to help recruiting there you're wrong.
VUGrad, you should sign up on that one realignment website. You are way too knowledgeable not to. lol
I read it almost daily. That's where I come up with a lot of my theories about what might happen. I read the fanbases directly and see who they are interested in and if it makes sense and then see what might work as a cascading chain of events. There are more moves to come after the MVC if this scenario comes to pass of course like I think most likely WIU would take Murray State's spot in the OVC while the Summit would probably go for an Augustana or St Thomas (MN) if their waiver is approved. I wish NDSU and SDSU were available to the MVC but they aren't.
Boise State's coach wishes the Mountain West advocated for its teams better. Feeling a little antsy maybe? That would be a massive blow to MWC football as Boise State is their flagship program and has a special deal with the conference that probably upsets the other members. If the AAC could get Boise State (there may be some bad blood there from the failed Boise State to the Big East discussions earlier this decade but if they can get past that it solidifies the AAC as the preeminent G5 conference and really bolsters their case for status as a P6. Maybe they're angling to make a big multiteam splash. But if it's only one team who would you rather have if you're the AAC? The on field prowess of Boise State or the prestige and viewership of an academy? Good problem to have. Maybe the conference possibly being willing to expand to Boise for football might open up the prospect of Gonzaga as an Olympic sports add? That would be a grand slam and the Bulldogs would love it too I'm sure.
This would have to be the reason why everybody is talking about shuffling their positions. The playoff could be expanding to 8 teams with a guaranteed G5 slot. After running the MWC and getting left out of the Access Bowl, Boise State might be taking a "can't beat 'em join 'em" stance with the AAC. It would certainly bolster their case for getting in if they can win the AAC as it is considered to be the strongest G5 conference by a pretty good margin hence the deal ESPN just shelled out which is now being reworked.
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1204847516803616772
https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1204848550758273025
https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1204850647901884416
Butler defeated Southern today, 66-41. Derrik Smits outscored Micah Bradford 2 points to 1 point.
Nice to see Smits making a real impact for Butler. Although he didn't score much I'm sure his presence was really felt not only in the defense and rebounding department but also in the complaining to the refs department. And Micah Bradford if I remember correctly was once billed as having Steph Curry like playmaking ability... SMH... The peril of recruit evaluation I guess.
Quote from: valpopal on December 14, 2019, 06:49:10 PM
Butler defeated Southern today, 66-41. Derrik Smits outscored Micah Bradford 2 points to 1 point.
Our 5 transfers-out all played in their last game, scoring a combined 11 points. Meanwhile, a drastically improved Javon - who changed his mind after learning these guys were officially gone - is averaging 22.3 PPG for the Crusaders. We also have a good 4-member freshmen recruiting class to build a future on. What a blessing in disguise this situation turned out to be.
All I know is Lottich better finish ahead of last year (5th place or higher in conference in some peoples' minds) or he must go. If he can't do better than 9th or 10th we still have an issue with the head coach.
Quote from: wh on December 15, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
Quote from: valpopal on December 14, 2019, 06:49:10 PM
Butler defeated Southern today, 66-41. Derrik Smits outscored Micah Bradford 2 points to 1 point.
Our 5 transfers-out all played in their last game, scoring a combined 11 points. Meanwhile, a drastically improved Javon - who changed his mind after learning these guys were officially gone - is averaging 22.3 PPG for the Crusaders. We also have a good 4-member freshmen recruiting class to build a future on. What a blessing in disguise this situation turned out to be.
Those transfers-out were all starters/rotation players for Valpo. Helps explain why the team struggled so much the last two years.
This is fully Lottich's team now and he has arguably one of the top 5 talents in school history leading the way. A bottom 4 finish to me is unacceptable.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on December 15, 2019, 01:29:26 PMarguably one of the top 5 talents in school history
A bit of a stretch. We'll see.
Javon is top 10 if he isn't top 5. I can't think of more than a handful of players you could say have had definitively better careers than he has at Valpo and he's only in his second year. I think he's definitely ahead of the pace for pretty much everybody if you compare sophomore year vs sophomore year of guys like Peters Rowdy and Bryce.
This is interesting. This guy is pretty plugged in on AAC stuff apparently.
https://twitter.com/c_austin_cox/status/1206988456192286720
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 17, 2019, 12:40:42 PM
This is interesting. This guy is pretty plugged in on AAC stuff apparently.
Looking at Colorado State (if the AAC expands), CSU has 8 Pac-12, 4 SEC, 3 Big 12 and 2 Big Ten football games on future schedules. That'd put AAC branding and mentions in front of more eyeballs nationally. Rams have a new stadium and Fort Collins is great to visit. But it's far.
Going in that direction it could be a Rocky (ies) Road for the AAC. Oooowww, that is awful............ ;)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 17, 2019, 12:40:03 PM
Javon is top 10 if he isn't top 5. I can't think of more than a handful of players you could say have had definitively better careers than he has at Valpo and he's only in his second year. I think he's definitely ahead of the pace for pretty much everybody if you compare sophomore year vs sophomore year of guys like Peters Rowdy and Bryce.
True, sophomore year to sophomore year, no doubt--so far. Freshman year was also pretty strong. Javon was 11.0 ppg with 4.3 bpg, shot 29% from the 3 and 69% from the line. Alec and Lubos were better, as was Bryce. Bryce had 13.4 ppg his freshman year, Alec was 12.7 ppg with 4.8 boards and shot 38% from the 3 and 77% from the line. Lubos had 13.8 ppg Dan Oppland average 15.1 ppg his sophomore year, Alec was up to 16.8, Rowdy was at 10.3 ppg. Bryce was at 17.2 his sophomore year.
Holy mother of money... This has to be the power move that brings Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC. Even with the harder path to the playoff there's no way they would turn down that kind of cash if the SEC wanted to lock in and maybe even push that payout even higher.
https://twitter.com/SmittySBJ/status/1208187770059014144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208187770059014144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890915.html
Quote from: vu72 on December 18, 2019, 03:40:16 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 17, 2019, 12:40:03 PM
Javon is top 10 if he isn't top 5. I can't think of more than a handful of players you could say have had definitively better careers than he has at Valpo and he's only in his second year. I think he's definitely ahead of the pace for pretty much everybody if you compare sophomore year vs sophomore year of guys like Peters Rowdy and Bryce.
True, sophomore year to sophomore year, no doubt--so far. Freshman year was also pretty strong. Javon was 11.0 ppg with 4.3 bpg, shot 29% from the 3 and 69% from the line. Alec and Lubos were better, as was Bryce. Bryce had 13.4 ppg his freshman year, Alec was 12.7 ppg with 4.8 boards and shot 38% from the 3 and 77% from the line. Lubos had 13.8 ppg Dan Oppland average 15.1 ppg his sophomore year, Alec was up to 16.8, Rowdy was at 10.3 ppg. Bryce was at 17.2 his sophomore year.
Javon averaged 11 PPG last year without a jump shot. Now he's a danger from anywhere on the court and has a 22 point average to show for it. It's hard to imagine that he could improve to the degree he has in such a short time. IMO he's a better athlete than Dan, Bryce or Ryan or Lubos (and I loved those guys). We could be watching the guy who someday will be considered the best player that ever wore a Crusader uniform. It's a tall order, but he's definitely tracking north.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 21, 2019, 04:17:02 PM
Holy mother of money... This has to be the power move that brings Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC. Even with the harder path to the playoff there's no way they would turn down that kind of cash if the SEC wanted to lock in and maybe even push that payout even higher.
https://twitter.com/SmittySBJ/status/1208187770059014144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208187770059014144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890915.html
Never going to happen, at least regarding UT. Also, if UT doesn't make a move, OU isn't going anywhere (as with the Pac-10 rumors years ago). UT gets to dictate what happens in the Big 12, and would not give that up to join any conference. They are already the most profitable university program in the country, and that won't change anytime soon.
https://www.athleticscholarships.net/profitable-college-football-programs.htm
Quote from: valpotx on December 21, 2019, 05:32:10 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 21, 2019, 04:17:02 PMHoly mother of money... This has to be the power move that brings Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC. Even with the harder path to the playoff there's no way they would turn down that kind of cash if the SEC wanted to lock in and maybe even push that payout even higher. https://twitter.com/SmittySBJ/status/1208187770059014144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208187770059014144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890915.html
Never going to happen, at least regarding UT. Also, if UT doesn't make a move, OU isn't going anywhere (as with the Pac-10 rumors years ago). UT gets to dictate what happens in the Big 12, and would not give that up to join any conference. They are already the most profitable university program in the country, and that won't change anytime soon. https://www.athleticscholarships.net/profitable-college-football-programs.htm
I don't know why any university would turn down a chance to double (or probably more than double) their payout just from conference dispersals and media deals. That takes a special kind of ego (and stupid) to turn down free money profitable or not.
Quote from: bbtds on December 18, 2019, 02:22:18 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 17, 2019, 12:40:42 PMThis is interesting. This guy is pretty plugged in on AAC stuff apparently. Looking at Colorado State (if the AAC expands), CSU has 8 Pac-12, 4 SEC, 3 Big 12 and 2 Big Ten football games on future schedules. That'd put AAC branding and mentions in front of more eyeballs nationally. Rams have a new stadium and Fort Collins is great to visit. But it's far.
Going in that direction it could be a Rocky (ies) Road for the AAC. Oooowww, that is awful............ ;)
For the record, they're looking at Army, BYU, Air Force, Boise State, San Diego State, and Colorado State as candidates. The first two are unlikely, and there is mixed support among fans from what I've seen (I read a lot of boards and fan chatter) for CSU but the other three (AF BSU SDSU) might be in play as a one off or a package. HOWEVER, the Mountain West just inked a deal that provides substantially more money to all MW members (almost $4million per year I think and almost $6million to Boise State). At nearly $7million per school the AAC still makes more money but when coupled with the loss of MWC games for Olympic sports and whatever travel increases may result from switching olympic sports conferences as well as the travel increase of playing AAC games the question becomes interesting: are the earlier start times and eastern exposure and greater access to rich recruiting areas like Florida and Texas worth the loss of traditional rivalries prestige of your olympic sports programs and access to talent rich California as well as rising (potentially significantly rising depending upon where the olympic sports go) travel costs? Honestly, for a school like Air Force especially that never wins a move to the more competitively and geographically friendly Summit League (or serving as a punching bag for Gonzaga BYU and St Mary's every year but still being able to recruit California in Olympic Sports) might be worth it because those don't sound like losses and the football program gets a boost. But for schools with something to lose (like Boise State who loses power and access to quality games unless the WCC takes them) or SDSU (unless they could get into the WCC which would be awesome for both parties) it's a tougher decision. Even with the difficulties of institutional fit, I think SDSU would have the easiest time finding acceptance in the WCC (except that they would have the Toreros in their own city to convince and contend with but because they provide quality games I'm sure they wouldn't mind) but Boise State and Air Force would be tougher sells because the history of success isn't really there most years and Gonzaga probably doesn't want to have 1 or 2 (if they took Seattle from the WAC) regional rivals in conference when they rule Washington (and that conference) especially if they are potential drags on conference metrics.
Some great info from Mark Adams about buy games that fans (and schedulemakers if you're listening) might find interesting. There are some teams we could beat on this list and get paid for it AND get some exposure from Jon Rothstein with his "Epitome of Brutality" tweets.
https://www.athleticdirectoru.com/articles/investigating-college-basketball-buy-games/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 14, 2020, 02:55:06 AM
Quote from: valpotx on December 21, 2019, 05:32:10 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 21, 2019, 04:17:02 PMHoly mother of money... This has to be the power move that brings Texas and Oklahoma into the SEC. Even with the harder path to the playoff there's no way they would turn down that kind of cash if the SEC wanted to lock in and maybe even push that payout even higher. https://twitter.com/SmittySBJ/status/1208187770059014144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208187770059014144&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-890915.html
Never going to happen, at least regarding UT. Also, if UT doesn't make a move, OU isn't going anywhere (as with the Pac-10 rumors years ago). UT gets to dictate what happens in the Big 12, and would not give that up to join any conference. They are already the most profitable university program in the country, and that won't change anytime soon. https://www.athleticscholarships.net/profitable-college-football-programs.htm
I don't know why any university would turn down a chance to double (or probably more than double) their payout just from conference dispersals and media deals. That takes a special kind of ego (and stupid) to turn down free money profitable or not.
They already make that much with their own television associations and other revenue sources, and have complete control over a conference. Why switch conferences to make the same amount of money, and give up that control?
I'm sure they'd still be able to keep the LHN no matter where they end up. And how is that control working out for them? They've sure channeled that dominion over the conference into being a super relevant program that dominates the conference and regularly makes the playoff. Oh I'm sorry that's Oklahoma. They "own" the conference yet they are repeatedly owned by Oklahoma? That doesn't wash. The people who run that university need a serious attitude adjustment. Legends in their own minds. Look at these records (since losing the National Title game to Alabama in 2009) :
2010: 5-7
2011: 8-5 Won Holiday Bowl
2012: 9-4 Won Alamo Bowl
2013: 8-5 Lost Alamo Bowl
2014: 6-7 Lost Texas Bowl
2015: 5-7
2016: 5-7
2017: 7-6 Won Texas Bowl
2018: 10-4 Won Sugar Bowl
2019: 8-5 Won Alamo Bowl
71-57 In probably the weakest P5 conference. hardly "controlling" Hardly dominating. What's the point of controlling a conference if all you can manage are middling results? They should be grateful a league like the SEC or Big 10 would even want them. And as the flagship university of Texas with a national fan\alumni base they have no reason to worry at all about damaging their brand by becoming even less successful.
The gulf between the Big 10 SEC and the rest of the P5 is only going to get bigger and the Big XII being in flyover country isn't going to help them. They're going to lag behind the others (especially if the Pac 12 actually finds competent leadership. The Big XII is going to have trouble holding on to that last spot in the playoff spot and becoming some SEC team's whipping post in Round 1. And Texas can't even play that role because they're constantly clowned by Oklahoma. They'd better get smart and take their money and the lifeboat out to a better league while they can or the conferences will just go ahead and move on to another target like Kansas (nationally relevant basketball) or Oklahoma State (same mediocre Big XII performance less ego and headache to deal with.)
I would contend that the Big 10 is weaker than the Big 12 in a normal year. You really just have Ohio State, Michigan, and Wisconsin that are pretty consistent winners. This year was a good year for top 25 teams in the Big 10, but it is not the norm, in spite of what native mid-westerners like to believe ;).
This could be big and a situation that bears watching. It could potentially significantly affect the future of mid major college hoops.
https://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/college/mountain-west/boise-state-university/boise-state-football/article239413553.html
https://twitter.com/Ron_BroncoBeat/status/1218332387873976320/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1218332387873976320&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-892246-page-3.html
Some thoughts:
Boise State, seeking more money earlier kickoffs and better exposure (which admittedly this new deal provides to some degree though the new deal has obviously ruffled some feathers) might consider taking the spot UConn is vacating in the AAC and putting their Olympic sports either in the WCC (if they will take them) the Big West or the WAC where they will be more consistently competitive though it will hurt recruiting for those sports while football gets a boost.
Air Force (as I think I have detailed earlier) has also had their coach speak up about the Mountain West possibly not being the best fit for them. Now, tripling their money probably quelled some of that but I think his concerns were more than financial. They would have more conference options for olympic sports than Boise State due to their academic standing. Also, the media deal would probably be negotiated way down without Boise State involved unless there is specific language protecting that which there probably isn't. The AAC might want some regional partners for Boise State football who have strong programs and national brands that add value. Air Force certainly fits that bill. Additionally the AAC is academy friendly and would definitely welcome Air Force.
Like Boise State, San Diego State--they of 10 consecutive bowl appearances--nearly joined the AAC as a football affiliate at its inception. They would add another strong program and regional partner and a strong market. if they came alongside Air Force and Boise State it would be a definitive blow to the MWC. They would have plenty of options as well for Olympic sports. The WCC would ALMOST CERTAINLY make an exception to its all private makeup to add a program of SDSU's caliber. They would immediately be of similar or better caliber to the upper tier of that conference. It's ironic that the AAC could eliminate two Olympic sports rivals (the MWC and the A10) while creating another (the WCC). I wonder if they would do a challenge with each other.
Hawaii would probably consider independence a better option at that point. They could certainly put together a great schedule with their extremely attractive location.
The reason I don't list these teams as potential all sports AAC teams is because 1. Air Force and Boise State won't be nearly good enough in Olympic Sports and the additional travel even with the additional money would make that worse in all likelihood. And 2. Better affiliates can be found for Olympic sports within their existing footprint. Which brings me to the main reason why I'm even posting this here. This is where it gets dicey for the MVC.
If the AAC takes only one team from the MWC, they will likely pursue a school from the A10 (VCU Dayton or SLU most likely). And
If the A10 loses only one school, you have to think Loyola is a prime target especially if that school is VCU and they still have semi regional schools like Dayton and SLU in conference. If SLU is left out and they somehow lose BOTH VCU and Dayton (unlikely but possible) then SLU likely considers the Valley as a better home. The MVC could counter by adding Murray State and likely emerge largely unscathed but it wouldn't necessarily make us any better. However
If the AAC gets bold it's a mixed bag but not good for the MVC
Pros:
We keep Loyola
Both the MWC and A10 are weakened significantly
Our schedules would likely improve as well as the weakened A10 and MWC will need us more for quality games and could still potentially provide us with some quality games.
Our potential for a scheduling alliance\conference challenges grows, as our stature relative to other mid majors grows. Instead of having 9 or 10 conferences ahead of us, we would only have 7 or 8 conferences definitively ahead of us at any given year.
The impetus to add Murray State for added strength potentially grows.
Cons:
The AAC and WCC, two conferences we fight for the few non A5 conferences for at large bids, get significantly stronger, potentially crowding us out.
The gulf between the haves and have nots grows even more
If one of these HAS to happen (and I suspect it does) I don't know which of these outcomes is better for the MVC. Neither one is good. I think I prefer the route where we keep Loyola and take our chances to see how we as a conference can with our peers adapt to the increasingly stratified world we would inhabit. Remember, since added strength in the AAC and WCC comes at the expense of the A10 and the MWC in this scenario there would probably still be a few slots for our teams to fight for. But maybe that's wishful thinking. Either way this is about to get interesting. Let's see how this unfolds but I think moves are going to be made soon.
Boise State's AD didn't make a statement like that for nothing and you have to believe that the conference is tired of seeing Boise State be catered to as a special member when they're supposed to be a peer. I think a split of some kind between BSU and the MWC is inevitable. The only question is if other teams (like Air Force and SDSU) follow suit trying to retain a shot at national relevance for their programs. I don't see Boise State going independent. I don't think they would make it without a conference.
Vanderbilt's 34-year 3-point streak ends with 0-for-25 night
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28511073/vanderbilt-34-year-3-point-streak-ends-0-25-night (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28511073/vanderbilt-34-year-3-point-streak-ends-0-25-night)
Vanderbilt has another streak to worry about... Maybe Bryce wasn't the problem eh, boys?
But they did get some money from a really optimistic fan.
Vanderbilt "Has the building blocks to become a national power..." LOL Suuuuure.... Because of all that money Kentucky heaps on your conference maybe...
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28503159/vanderbilt-alum-donates-5-million-men-basketball-program
Speaking of Vanderbilt, this tweet made me LOL. Great stuff from Vols Twitter.
https://twitter.com/Vol_Hoops/status/1218700928691339266
Holy Crap... According to this interview some 1200 Racer fans made the three hour trip to Memphis to support Ja Morant in Memphis during his game against the Cavaliers. If they can get that many for an alum's NBA game three hours away imagine how many they could bring to Arch Madness! They would look so good in the MVC!
https://twitter.com/GrizzliesOnFSSE/status/1218375561262850048
Dang, and I thought bringing out 30-35 folks to our Mavs event last year was pretty good lol.
New AP Rankings out and there are two very interesting things to notice in these rankings.
-Baylor is Number 1.
-Three of the top seven teams are from outside the Power 6 conferences.
UNI is the fourth highest vote recipient in the AP poll in the Others Receiving votes and the fifth highest in the Coaches Poll. They are so close to being ranked! I hope they get there!
UNI not in the top 5 mid majors with a shot at an at large? WTF Palm? (Unless he's only considering teams not currently leading their conferences in which case my WTF is humbly retracted.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/talk-to-the-palm-bracketology-mailbag-answers-questions-about-the-ncaa-tournament-bracket-projection/
Quote from: vu84v2 on January 20, 2020, 01:01:17 PMNew AP Rankings out and there are two very interesting things to notice in these rankings. -Baylor is Number 1. -Three of the top seven teams are from outside the Power 6 conferences.
I mean Baylor being #1 is great and all and congratulations to Scott on the achievement. I watched their win over Oklahoma and they're very good and have some seriously talented athletes that can jump out of the gym but...
How on EARTH did they earn the right to leapfrog Gonzaga for the #1 ranking. They beat Oklahoma State (NET 78) by 7 on the road and they beat Iowa State (NET 82) by 13 at home... Meanwhile, Gonzaga plays two home games and DRILLS Santa Clara (NET 86) by 50 and BYU (NET 37) by 23. I know the metric stops counting at 10 points but I mean come on... Gonzaga played better teams on balance and won by more points than Baylor and gets punished for playing both games at home? Is a 7 point victory over a team 8 spots higher really more impressive than a double digit victory at home? Just more rinse and repeat business as usual from the football conferences where a deserving team gets screwed over by conference affiliation...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 21, 2020, 05:53:11 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on January 20, 2020, 01:01:17 PMNew AP Rankings out and there are two very interesting things to notice in these rankings. -Baylor is Number 1. -Three of the top seven teams are from outside the Power 6 conferences.
I mean Baylor being #1 is great and all and congratulations to Scott on the achievement. I watched their win over Oklahoma and they're very good and have some seriously talented athletes that can jump out of the gym but...
How on EARTH did they earn the right to leapfrog Gonzaga for the #1 ranking. They beat Oklahoma State (NET 78) by 7 on the road and they beat Iowa State (NET 82) by 13 at home... Meanwhile, Gonzaga plays two home games and DRILLS Santa Clara (NET 86) by 50 and BYU (NET 37) by 23. I know the metric stops counting at 10 points but I mean come on... Gonzaga played better teams on balance and won by more points than Baylor and gets punished for playing both games at home? Is a 7 point victory over a team 8 spots higher really more impressive than a double digit victory at home? Just more rinse and repeat business as usual from the football conferences where a deserving team gets screwed over by conference affiliation...
I doubt that they check NET before voting.
Yeah, same reason UNI, and indeed all mid majors, are on such a tightrope. Losses are inordinately punished wins are seldom rewarded properly. It's why it takes teams from conferences like ours forever to get ranked and we often only get one shot at it. It's sad and grossly unfair.
I think if UNI keeps playing the wat they are, they would get an at large bid. Well coached team with decent players. However, it is fair to say that no other Valley team is worthy of an at large bid.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 21, 2020, 06:47:16 AM
I think if UNI keeps playing the wat they are, they would get an at large bid. Well coached team with decent players. However, it is fair to say that no other Valley team is worthy of an at large bid.
I know it's not predictable but Loyola, based on their Final Four appearance 2 years ago and to some degree Sister Jean's sainted reputation Loyola has a slight chance because the committee wouldn't take as much grief from the mid-major pundits who are given a few crumbs at times to appease them if the Ramblers were put in a play-in game.
I would be all for it but where are the resume boosting wins? They lost to Davidson and Colorado State and worst of all Coppin State got drubbed by Furman beat Vanderbilt but aside from that where's the beef? And yet their resume is probably the best one outside of UNI except for maybe Bradley.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 21, 2020, 08:31:17 AMI would be all for it but where are the resume boosting wins? They lost to Davidson and Colorado State and worst of all Coppin State got drubbed by Furman beat Vanderbilt but aside from that where's the beef? And yet their resume is probably the best one outside of UNI except for maybe Bradley.
They could have beaten Kentucky if they had played them.
Quote from: bbtds on January 21, 2020, 08:19:01 AM
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 21, 2020, 06:47:16 AM
I think if UNI keeps playing the wat they are, they would get an at large bid. Well coached team with decent players. However, it is fair to say that no other Valley team is worthy of an at large bid.
I know it's not predictable but Loyola, based on their Final Four appearance 2 years ago and to some degree Sister Jean's sainted reputation Loyola has a slight chance because the committee wouldn't take as much grief from the mid-major pundits who are given a few crumbs at times to appease them if the Ramblers were put in a play-in game.
I really hope (and generally believe) that the selection committee is not selecting teams based on sentimentality and past performance.
As far as Baylor goes, the point about them leapfrogging Gonzaga despite Gonzaga having two very strong wins is reasonable. My guess is that the full effect of Baylor crushing Kansas on the road was somewhat delayed (one week..are they really that good? next week..wow, I guess that they are!) However, my guess is that Baylor cannot run the gauntlet of the Big 12 undefeated and Gonzaga is far less likely to lose any conference games. Thus, Gonzaga will be number one again.
That's a fair point and I totally agree. I mean this was I believe Baylor's first six game winning streak in conference (or first 6-0 start I can't remember which one they said on the broadcast) as a member of the Big XII. They probably won't make it through unscathed especially knowing they have to play Kansas again and West Virginia at least once (can't remember if they've already played or not).
Baylor didn't REALLY leapfrog Gonzaga. Baylor had more first place votes than Gonzaga last week, but were still ranked number 2 because those who didn't have Baylor at 1 had Baylor at 3 behind Duke. Because Duke lost this week, that forced all those voters that had Baylor at three to put Baylor at 2, causing them to get more votes and therefore get more votes than Gonzaga so now they are number one. In reality, this is most likely what the rankings SHOULD have been last week. I would argue that Baylor passing Gonzaga was inevitable as long as Baylor won out last week.
Serious Kansas/K State player brawl a few minutes ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCys1Zy1dU
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 21, 2020, 09:45:09 AMThat's a fair point and I totally agree. I mean this was I believe Baylor's first six game winning streak in conference (or first 6-0 start I can't remember which one they said on the broadcast) as a member of the Big XII. They probably won't make it through unscathed especially knowing they have to play Kansas again and West Virginia at least once (can't remember if they've already played or not).
Baylor could have a tough time....and I mean tough time as in lose....at the O'Connell Center vs Florida on Saturday.
Quote from: wh on January 21, 2020, 08:21:14 PMSerious Kansas/K State player brawl a few minutes ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDCys1Zy1dU
Going into the stands, coming off the bench are just a few serious issues aside from the punches thrown and DeSousa probably has played his last game this season.
Stay classy Kansas! I hope some mid major (preferably a Valley team) whips their behinds in the tournament (again). That is, if they don't get a postseason ban from all the crap they've been involved in recently (which they should but they won't).
Scott Drew was on Sportscenter after the victory over Oklahoma in case you missed it (or care to see the interview)
https://twitter.com/BaylorMBB/status/1219479398056955905
Vote for Broekhoff and Peters! You can also write in for any players you think are deserving (Vashil comes to mind as one who was left off the list but who deserves recognition) if you so choose but you can only pick 10. Lots of deserving players on this list!
https://twitter.com/HorizonLeague/status/1219681061082238976
My ballot:
Hayward
Howard (interesting Mack is not on their list, couldn't write in because already painful enough to have to Butler players on my list)
Norris Cole
Sykes
Benzinger
Peters
Broekhoff
Kendrick Perry (what he did at YSU without any supporting cast is all-conf decade)
Brandon Wood (he was a big time scorer at the beginning of the decade, who deserves more recognition for his 2 VU years, his performance against UNC at UNC is one of the greatest Valpo player performances)
Kevin Van Wijk (Big guys need some love on that list)
This is bold... And perhaps reckless... This could lead to serious reform of the tournament, of conference continuity rules and practices, and even a potential D1 split...
https://asunsports.org/general/2019-20/releases/20200122lh6utq
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jYT5JEfWpdUXuj3W5MTePtu6Ugoh4zySRObxfPH7hvQ/edit
So Skara and Adekoya get nine games for an academic infraction (Adekoya I think ended up sitting out way more because the NCAA sucks)
Yet a Kansas player goes INTO THE CROWD WITH A CHAIR and gets 12 games...
The NCAA sucks...
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220127900466401280
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 22, 2020, 09:42:05 PMSo Skara and Adekoya get nine games for an academic infraction (Adekoya I think ended up sitting out way more because the NCAA sucks) Yet a Kansas player goes INTO THE CROWD WITH A CHAIR and gets 12 games... The NCAA sucks... https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220127900466401280
If only it were 9 games. Adekoya was out for 22 regular season games, not counting post season. As everyone knows; Mid Major infractions are way more serious and need to be punished harsher than the exemplary, respectable and innocent Power Conference teams. Hence Skara only missed 9 games for the same offense because he was on a Power Conference team when he had to serve his suspension. ;) :crazy:
"I tell you the NCAA is so mad at Kentucky right now that they're going to have to give Cleveland State another year of probation."--Jerry Tarkanian way back almost 30 years ago. Truer words were never spoken and nothing has changed in all this time. If anything, it's gotten worse.
Things are getting really testy between Boise St and the MWC. This could be worth watching.
https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/College-Football.pdf
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 22, 2020, 09:42:05 PM
So Skara and Adekoya get nine games for an academic infraction (Adekoya I think ended up sitting out way more because the NCAA sucks)
Yet a Kansas player goes INTO THE CROWD WITH A CHAIR and gets 12 games...
The NCAA sucks...
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220127900466401280
Feel free to complain about academic infraction penalties, but the NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction in this matter.
As a an alum and strong supporter of Kansas (and Valpo), i believe that De Sousa should not be allowed to play for at least the rest of the season. In fact, my guess is that De Sousa will never play another game for Kansas.
I have been to Allen Fieldhouse many times, so let me clarify the part of the stadium where the brawl extended. It did not go into the regular crowd per se. Instead, it extended into the section setup for handicapped people attending the game. Fortunately, it looked like most people in that section had already left the game.
Friends of mine who were at the game didn't condone anything that DeSousa did, but also stated that there were events prior to the last play that fueled the melee. The player who stole the ball from DeSousa and then had his shot blocked by DeSousa had also committed a very hard foul on one Kansas walk-on and had slapped another Kansas walk-on.
Quote from: IrishDawg on January 23, 2020, 08:20:00 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on January 22, 2020, 09:42:05 PMSo Skara and Adekoya get nine games for an academic infraction (Adekoya I think ended up sitting out way more because the NCAA sucks) Yet a Kansas player goes INTO THE CROWD WITH A CHAIR and gets 12 games... The NCAA sucks... https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220127900466401280
Feel free to complain about academic infraction penalties, but the NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction in this matter.
If they don't have jurisdiction in the matter, how is it that they handed down the suspensions for the infractions? Sounds like to me they have some say in the matter.
Quote from: VUBBFan on January 23, 2020, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on January 23, 2020, 08:20:00 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on January 22, 2020, 09:42:05 PMSo Skara and Adekoya get nine games for an academic infraction (Adekoya I think ended up sitting out way more because the NCAA sucks) Yet a Kansas player goes INTO THE CROWD WITH A CHAIR and gets 12 games... The NCAA sucks... https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220127900466401280
Feel free to complain about academic infraction penalties, but the NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction in this matter.
If they don't have jurisdiction in the matter, how is it that they handed down the suspensions for the infractions? Sounds like to me they have some say in the matter.
Because the NCAA doesn't get involved in in-game issues unless the schools and/or leagues don't adhere to the NCAA's "one game suspension rule" for a player's first fight of the season. Schools and conferences are specifically listed as the assigning authority when it comes to dealing out more severe punishments beyond that.
Hello... Things are getting hot out west. If the AAC makes a corresponding basketball move you know it's going to be an A10 team which threatens Loyola's position in the MVC. This has a direct effect on us and our league.
https://twitter.com/C_Austin_Cox/status/1220529434891096065?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1220529434891096065&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-892956-page-11.html
FWIW, I noticed that today's NCAA bracket from Joe Lunardi http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology) has Loyola as a 13 seed (presumably the conference champ) and UNI as an 11 seed, playing in a first four game. UNI is in the last four in category.
Quote from: valpo95 on January 24, 2020, 12:53:42 PMFWIW, I noticed that today's NCAA bracket from Joe Lunardi http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology) has Loyola as a 13 seed (presumably the conference champ) and UNI as an 11 seed, playing in a first four game. UNI is in the last four in category.
Saw that! I'll gladly take it! Keep the dream alive! Two bid Valley!
BYU coming alongside Boise State?
https://kslsports.com/426873/boise-state-lawsuit-mwc-if-they-left-what-impact-on-byu-football/
For some reason, Texas Tech wanted to add a promotion to get students out for their game against Kentucky. Free beer for all students (of age) attending the game! Of course, no one has ever had a problem with a free or very cheap beer promotion.
Cleveland approves of you post 84v2. 10cent beer night will live in infamy!
Thought this was great. College basketball has become a transfer portal, low scoring, FBI investigating, wanting to get paid difficult to watch game. But I thought this was great.
Vandy AD Malcolm Turner resigned today. Lasted barely a year on the job.
Bryce bolted from a program that was helping him become a further star right into the buzzsaw of whatever dysfunction is happening at Vanderbilt.
Don't care how bad our facilities are or that he got a pretty good buy out, he jumped way too soon.
from Yahoo! Sports
Reported discontent between Turner and Vanderbilt
Rivals' VandySports.com cited a source that said a spending freeze had been instituted at the school.
Rumors have swirled for weeks over unhappiness between Turner and Vanderbilt. The source of much discontent was Turner's spending.
Ex-athletic director David Williams left behind a "rainy day" fund that sources estimated at $17 million. Turner blew through that in less than a year on the job.
A source familiar with the inner workings inside Vanderbilt athletics, weeks ago, said that there had been a spending freeze and that the department was running "deficits on top of deficits on top of deficits."
Quote from: crusader05 on February 04, 2020, 11:34:35 AMBryce bolted from a program that was helping him become a further star right into the buzzsaw of whatever dysfunction is happening at Vanderbilt. Don't care how bad our facilities are or that he got a pretty good buy out, he jumped way too soon.
Quote from: crusader05 on February 04, 2020, 11:34:35 AMBryce bolted from a program that was helping him become a further star right into the buzzsaw of whatever dysfunction is happening at Vanderbilt. Don't care how bad our facilities are or that he got a pretty good buy out, he jumped way too soon.
I'm of two minds on this: Yes he jumped too soon and will forever be marred with the "I went winless in conference play" scarlet sentence (But it looks like so will Stackhouse so maybe the problem wasn't him? In any case he set up his family for life with that money and is still cashing it. He doesn't have to do a thing the rest of his life if he doesn't want to. And yet... That school that was making him a rising star in the profession would welcome him back with open arms any time he decides he wants the job. He lost nothing and gained millions. Good move by Bryce I should say.
Language warning in the article BUT this is the kind of stuff I worry will eventually said of us in the MVC if we don't produce or start to resolve the issues we face and have faced. The similarities were close enough to feel very uncomfortable.
https://www.blackburnreview.com/2020/02/04/thats-enough-fordham/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 04, 2020, 02:58:41 PM
Language warning in the article BUT this is the kind of stuff I worry will eventually said of us in the MVC if we don't produce or start to resolve the issues we face and have faced. The similarities were close enough to feel very uncomfortable.
https://www.blackburnreview.com/2020/02/04/thats-enough-fordham/
Pretty funny how we complain about the ARC but their 3200 seat 'arena" is deemed "historical", Perhaps we should have stayed in Hilltop. It had a seating capacity of about 3200 and certainly was "historical"!
https://fordhamsports.com/sports/2013/7/17/GEN_0717130925.aspx
The lighting looks way better there. If the sound system is decent and parking isn't bad I'll trade them tomorrow.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 04, 2020, 06:33:56 PM
The lighting looks way better there. If the sound system is decent and parking isn't bad I'll trade them tomorrow.
Parking situation in the Bronx for Fordham football games. When is the last time somebody who parked away from the building paid to park at Valpo?
Parking lot A (fairly close) at Fordham football $40 per game. In parking garage with a decent walk, much like Valpo's from LaPorte Ave., $17 per game.
https://fordhamsports.com/sports/2014/3/31/FB_0331143336.aspx
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fordham+University/@40.8620444,-73.8944534,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c2f37e5180c091:0x39c5cf445ed73ef8!8m2!3d40.8620404!4d-73.8856987
Vandy won first SEC game of the year. Sorry Bruce.
Speaking of the SEC I know this is football related but I'm glad universities like ours don't pull this crap. Shame on Ole Miss. More P5 BS and the NCAA just lets them get away with whatever. There's no ethics anywhere in college sports these days.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28647975/hs-recruit-detraveon-brown-north-texas-signing-day-gaffe
North Carolina A&T leaving MEAC for Big South. Announcement expected tomorrow.
https://www.greensboro.com/sports/college/ncat/a-t-will-leave-meac-for-big-south-conference-source/article_827f910e-c4eb-5815-8821-1ed75cf66272.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share&fbclid=IwAR2Blz_Y9cbnz-8rJBafUoTbZ-LhmhZA_HmP6nFn2TlBjjA0ia1Qf5OmbQw#2
Looks to be happening. They are having a good year in conference basketball so far leading the MEAC at 8-1.
Now NC A&T will be the 3rd D1 Historically Black Colleges and Universities program not in the MEAC or SWAC.
(Hampton Big South and Tennessee State OVC)
https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina-at-state-university-to-announce-major-development-within-intercollegiate-athletics-department/
Seems like the row between the Mountain West and Boise State has been settled amicably which means there will be no significant realignment move\trickle down effect. This is good for the MVC because the Q1 games won't become more concentrated in higher conferences and Loyola won't be poached by the A10.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 06, 2020, 04:42:59 PMSpeaking of the SEC I know this is football related but I'm glad universities like ours don't pull this crap. Shame on Ole Miss. More P5 BS and the NCAA just lets them get away with whatever. There's no ethics anywhere in college sports these days. https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28647975/hs-recruit-detraveon-brown-north-texas-signing-day-gaffe
Why would this be Ole Miss's issue?
Because that's a really crappy thing to do to lead a recruit on and assure him that his paper work is coming in to the degree that he announces that he is coming on national TV only to realize that there is no offer and never was. That is a shameful and disgusting recruiting tactic. If you gave your word to a kid keep it and honor it.
Apparently, if you give students a reason to attend basketball games, they will come:
[tweet]1226188673529663490[/tweet]
They've got way more students Athletics are ingrained in that university's culture and we don't have a rivalry we hate as intensely as they hate Purdue. This makes sense to me and is not really an indictment of Valpo. We need an intense rival and we need a greater emphasis on athletics then maybe we can recreate this somewhat.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 08, 2020, 12:37:46 PM
They've got way more students Athletics are ingrained in that university's culture and we don't have a rivalry we hate as intensely as they hate Purdue. This makes sense to me and is not really an indictment of Valpo. We need an intense rival and we need a greater emphasis on athletics then maybe we can recreate this somewhat.
Exactly my point. We once had this electric kind of atmosphere during Valpo-Butler games. VU needs to establish and foster a strong rivalry with Loyola plus create once again a greater emphasis on pride in athletics among the student population.
Still not used to seeing Baylor this successful. Does anybody else see that #1 next to Baylor's name and feel convinced that they are about to watch a Women's game? Good for Scott though. Glad to see him doing well.
Potential big change for college basketball
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/di-transfer-waiver-working-group-seek-feedback-waiver-expansion
They would be looking to have this in place by next school year.
It's past due. But it'll favor the big boys. Like everything else.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 18, 2020, 04:20:08 PM
It's past due. But it'll favor the big boys. Like everything else.
Interestingly enough, the article has quotes from the Working Group Chair with Valpo ties--in that he is a Valpo grad and his father was the AD==Jon Steinbrecher,
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 18, 2020, 04:20:08 PM
It's past due. But it'll favor the big boys. Like everything else.
I'm not sure whom it favors. Good players from lower-tier programs and mediocre players from higher-tier ones probably face the same risk of failure when they swap tiers. I almost feel like the players who didn't quite fit in at the major programs are more likely to be swayed by not sitting out since they generally make the move to the "lesser" team for more playing time.
Watching #1 Baylor beat up on my Sooners. Baylor coach was the head coach at Valpo once.
This is interesting and one thing I think the MVC largely gets right. They place the best games on the best TV outlets most of the time.
https://www.bgdailynews.com/sports/wku/stewart-c-usa-needs-to-be-more-proactive-in-future/article_0ce0ee01-94cd-5746-a555-83f3874a716f.html
This is very interesting... BYU angling for P5 inclusion?
https://csnbbs.com/thread-894872.html
Happy for the win. We should be a 20+ win team. No other way to put it. I wouldn't get too excited about the above average shooting percentage from 3 as 1) it's not a pattern like our dug holes are and 2) Bradley was willing to lose by the 3 and learned a hard lesson Missouri State, ISU, and whoever we play in the tournament will likely learn from.
Hello! Wow! This would be shocking if USC were to make a move.
https://247sports.com/college/usc/Article/Mike-Bohn-USC-AD-Pac-12-financial-struggles-Larry-Scott-independent-leave-conference-144248076/
Great article on the new transfer rule. This is going to be a killer for mid majors. You'll essentially be forced to re-recruit your players every year.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28757527/ncaa-transfer-proposal-guide-means-coaches-players-saying
Interesting quote from someone named Scott Drew:
"I think what's going to happen is transfer rates are going to go through the roof. After one good year in a mid-major, you're out. After one good year in a low-major, out. One [bad] year at a high-major, you're out. Grass is always greener. It's going to be very tough to manage your roster."
Mid season transfer deadline ;) Fantastic idea ::). What could possibly go wrong if we throw away all the rules and allow a landscape of total chaos! :thumbsup:
All of college basketball faces varying declines of interest and attendance. With no semblance of continuity maybe old guys like me are just done with the game. Seriously, a collapse in attendance could be imminent.
Interesting...
https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status/1233966441227051008
Looks like those of you who said that the NET will be no friend to the Mid Major might be right... 11 of the top 40 teams in the NET have 18 or fewer wins at this point and .500 teams (not just in conference OVERALL or around .500) have NETs on par with that of UNI.
Purdue 15-14 35
UNI 23-5 (D1 wins only) 37
Alabama 16-13 42
Providence 17-12 44
Minnesota 13-15 46
Ridiculous. Resumes like Purdue's and Minnesota's especially shouldn't be ANYWHERE NEAR the bubble let alone have a HIGHER NET number.
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2020/net
Spot on. Even though scheduling has been drastically more difficult, it at an all time high importance.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 02, 2020, 01:24:51 PMSpot on. Even though scheduling has been drastically more difficult, it at an all time high importance.
Once again: Attention Luke Gore Mark LaBarbara Matt Lottich and All Others Concerned. Do WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO to get us the games we need to make this happen when we're ready (and I think we should give it a shot next year. If nothing else we can help our conference mates get there by not being a bad game for their metrics. We should strive to be AT MINIMUM a comfortably Q2 team if not a Top 75 team next year. We can do this and there is no reason whatsoever for anyone to believe that we can't if everyone stays here and healthy.
This is an amazing story. I remember seeing this guy on SportsCenter years ago. Glad to see he's doing well. Depression is a beast and it is so so tough to overcome. I know it firsthand so I really identified with a lot of this article because I know what it's like to feel that way. I've been there, even though I'm in a better place right now.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2020/3/2/21147397/utah-state-wild-bill-sproat-feature-aggies-smith-spectrum
Holy crap That's amazing... Just read this on MVC Fans... Why was the NET created? This might explain:
UNI RPI: 19
Big 10 Teams ahead of that: 1
UNI NET: 37
Big 10 teams ahead of that: 10
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 03, 2020, 08:34:32 AM
Holy crap That's amazing... Just read this on MVC Fans... Why was the NET created? This might explain:
UNI RPI: 19
Big 10 Teams ahead of that: 1
UNI NET: 37
Big 10 teams ahead of that: 10
You really think the RPI is a better metric than the NET?
The NET isn't perfect, but it's far better than the RPI.
UNI has had a great season, but their SOS is just above average, so that's why they have the rating they do.
I'm not calling it better but it's a very telling thing to see that stark a difference.
No Broekhoff?! This is RIDICULOUS! That guy is so criminally underrated underappreciated and disrespected it's unbelievable. When will it end?!
https://twitter.com/HorizonLeague/status/1235278843419799553
He's amazing All class I would not have handled this as well as he did if I were in that situation I can honestly say that
https://twitter.com/RBroekhoff45/status/1235413939946692609
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 04, 2020, 11:37:00 PM
He's amazing All class I would not have handled this as well as he did if I were in that situation I can honestly say that
https://twitter.com/RBroekhoff45/status/1235413939946692609
Broekhoff was a stud, no doubt, and probably could/should have replaced some of the guys on the list. Lists are good to generate discussion, but are mostly a waste of time.
McCallum was overrated. Broekhoff should have gotten it over his b* a$$ :)
"Uphill climb" for Augustana to joint D1, Summit League
https://kelo.com/news/articles/2020/mar/05/augustana-has-applied-for-summit-membership-but-it-will-be-an-uphill-climb-for-invite/991736/
Wow UConn's women NEVER lost an AAC game. That's amazing. That's dominance. Luckily for them they'll be going into a better more challenging league.
Football related but maybe there's some information to be gleaned here.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-must-innovate-as-fbs-attendance-dips-for-sixth-straight-year-to-lowest-since-1996/
two upsets in the opening round of the ACC...
14 beat 11. and. 13 beat 12. hard to believe I'm talking about North Carolina and Pitt.
NDSU 89 UND 53
A Valpo record falls tonight. The previous record for margin of victory in a Mid-Con\Summit League Championship game was 33 points set by the Valparaiso Crusaders who in 2002 defeated the Jaguars of IUPUI 88-55. It's amazing to think that neither of those teams is in the league any longer. Crazier still is that IUPUI was the team that replaced us in the Horizon when we left for the Valley.
NCAA men's and women's basketball tournaments to take place 'with only essential staff and limited family attendance'
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ncaa-mens-and-womens-basketball-tournaments-coronavirus
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 06, 2020, 09:53:25 AM
"Uphill climb" for Augustana to joint D1, Summit League
https://kelo.com/news/articles/2020/mar/05/augustana-has-applied-for-summit-membership-but-it-will-be-an-uphill-climb-for-invite/991736/
Douple said he told Augustana president Stephanie Herseth Sandlin -- who he called "an outstanding president" -- that she is going to have to "change some narrative and change some minds."
"One (Summit) president told me, (Augustana is) a small school in a small state with a small alumni base and a small endowment," Douple said to KWSN.
"Somehow, (Herseth Sandlin) and the university has got to be able to change that narrative into some positive thinking, got to create some other area where there is added value. Presidents, they obviously look at things a lot different from most folks, but that's why they're in those great positions. But, those are the challenges that need to be addressed. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. But (Herseth Sandlin) is aware of that."Interesting, Lutheran, small school, small alumni base, small endowment,
BUT a history of winning in the lower division. They need to convince their board of directors, especially in these tough times for colleges/universities, that it is worth the move. I'm sure they are looking at Wagner and Valpo and probably Augustana-Rock Island who hasn't made the move but has been successful.
Quote from: wh on March 11, 2020, 05:00:22 PM
NCAA men's and women's basketball tournaments to take place 'with only essential staff and limited family attendance'
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ncaa-mens-and-womens-basketball-tournaments-coronavirus
I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more posts. THIS IS A DISASTER!! First, I'm kinda glad we missed out on the tourney this year! That's the "tis an ill wind indeed that blows no good" part of it. But the NCAA is missing out on perhaps billions of revenues, which make up the payouts to schools and a lot of other stuff. If this makes it to the fall, the bottom could fall out.
How this will effect colleges with students not showing up is an unknown. Needless to say, we need some SERIOUS National leadership, not someone saying "the number of cases is going down". God help us.
Big Ten tournament will have no spectators after tonight. This is really bad. I hope we get this under control in time for next season.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 11, 2020, 06:03:42 PM
Big Ten tournament will have no spectators after tonight. This is really bad. I hope we get this under control in time for next season.
I'm just hoping that us old guys will survive until next season and have enough money left from the financial panic to be able to buy tickets. ;)
I have a lot of political anger right now. But for tonight I'm just going to say a prayer that all those really vulnerable to this come through this ok. We can worry about the rest when it's all done.
I believe strongly in the power in prayer. Anyone else who does, please join me tonight.
If you didn't think this was serious (Like me a few days ago) hear this: The NBA has just suspended their season until further notice after a star player on the Utah Jazz reportedly had symptoms that look a lot like the Coronavirus.
For anyone who is still skeptical (and I was a few days ago when Chicago State kicked everything off by cancelling their trip to Seattle and Utah Valley and I made fun of them for ducking their opponents to save money because they knew they were going to lose anyway and suggested they should drop out of D1) The CIT needs to stop being stubborn and putting money over peoples' lives and cancel for this year. It's in everyone's best interest (and this is coming from a fan who wanted to see their team play in that tournament to build momentum for next year). This is no ordinary year. It's no ordinary flu and these are no ordinary circumstances. Saner heads must prevail.
I'm preparing for the announcement that the NCAA Tournament as a whole is cancelled for this year. It's probably the right call just to halt play and put an end to the season entirely. Even if we want them to play (and I would certainly prefer that the games be played if given a real choice and not one where peoples' very lives are at stake) consider the following: How are they going to make the money for the payouts without ticket and concession sales anyway? It can't all come from the TV contract. Are commentators considered "essential personnel?" And if not are you really going to watch a basketball game with no fans AND no commentary?
Maybe it's time to put people over profit and mankind of money and just come together and ride this out without demanding our bread and circuses all the time. As much as I love college basketball and I love seeing the mids take the fight to the big boys there are more important things to life than sports. And life itself is far more valuable than any basketball game.
What happens if we had won the MVC tourney but then the NCAAT was cancelled? This ish is getting crazy! No way the tourney happens with all of the schools shutting down.
What is wrong in Oakland? 6 transfers last year and 5 in the portal currently. Even in this day and age of the transfer portal that is not normal.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on March 11, 2020, 09:29:41 PMWhat happens if we had won the MVC tourney but then the NCAAT was cancelled? This ish is getting crazy! No way the tourney happens with all of the schools shutting down.
I don't know but the NCAA needs to take everyone's lead (big surprise) and cancel (or at least suspend) the tournament. I love how everyone is complaining about the NCAA's lack of leadership on this issue. Congratulations on being where mid majors have been for years. What did you expect from an organization that didn't give the death penalty to Penn State football? What did you expect from an organization that declined to punish North Carolina AT ALL for running fake athlete classes and letting other people do their work for them? What do you expect from an organization that isn't going to do a darn thing to Kansas Louisville Auburn USC LSU or any other organizations embroiled in the recruiting scandal? What do you expect from an organization that allowed six conferences to rule the roost and control everything in college sports? What do you expect from this rules for me and rules for thee organization? It can't be fair-minded forward-thinking leadership because the NCAA has had several opportunities to demonstrate that and has failed miserably. Maybe this issue will stoke further reform but I won't hold my breath on that. Congratulations to the NCAA on leading from behind once again.
CIT cancelled. Valpo's season is officially over. They did the right ting.
Quote from: NotBryceDrew on March 12, 2020, 12:22:09 PM
What is wrong in Oakland? 6 transfers last year and 5 in the portal currently. Even in this day and age of the transfer portal that is not normal.
I thought this would be the last year for Kampe but they just signed him for 3 more years.
Coaches are pushing for it but I still doubt it happens nor should it really. Though it would be awesome to get Kiser and Fazekas back in here for one more go as long as we can keep all of our incoming recruits too!
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/coaches-want-the-ncaa-to-allow-senior-basketball-players-to-return-next-season-but-its-a-complicated-issue/
Article regarding impacts of the NCAA MM cancellation
https://www.crainscleveland.com/kevin-kleps-blog/mac-and-horizon-league-could-take-financial-hits-because-cancellation-march?utm_source=akron-morning-roundup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200319&utm_content=article12-headline (https://www.crainscleveland.com/kevin-kleps-blog/mac-and-horizon-league-could-take-financial-hits-because-cancellation-march?utm_source=akron-morning-roundup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200319&utm_content=article12-headline)
Wow, in hindsight, the timing of Arch Madness was very fortunate. And Valpo made the most of it by proving itself as a contender and building big excitement for next year!!.
Now that we felt the joy of the Arch Madness weekend format, it's a no-brainer improvement over the boring Horizon tourney and its typical low seed NCAA auto-bid.
To be fair our auto bid has been a low seed the past two years. That said that team was seeded 5th and 4th respectively in those years.
Beginning Sunday evening, CBS Sports Network will be replaying old March Madness games, which will include the 1998 Ole Miss v Valpo game to be broadcast Wednesday morning:
[tweet]1241018938735067136[/tweet]
I want to see all the great Valley upsets! Do they have a time for when every game will be on so we can pick the ones we want to see?
Quote from: valpopal on March 20, 2020, 10:48:18 AM
Beginning Sunday evening, CBS Sports Network will be replaying old March Madness games, which will include the 1998 Ole Miss v Valpo game to be broadcast Wednesday morning at 10 am (ET).
Or you can watch the 1998 Valpo-Ole Miss game now.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3A3DoyHCxI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3A3DoyHCxI)
Interesting thing about the other famous player in that 1998 NCAA tournament game at Oklahoma City, Ansu Sesay.
21 years after playing in this upset game against Valpo Sesay returned to Ole Miss to finish his education and helped on the coaching staff for the Rebels.
https://www.redcuprebellion.com/2019/9/27/20886908/ole-miss-basketball-2019-2020-ansu-sesay-kermit-davis-rebels-nba-supersonics-mavericks-warriors
Sesay played for the Supersonics (Thunder), Mavericks and Warriors in the NBA and then played in Europe.
This is great for the program, Sesay, and for those who remember just how special Ansu was as a Rebel. He is unfairly remembered for being a part of the 1997-1998 Ole Miss team that went 22-6, made the NCAA Tournament, then lost to Valparaiso on an improbable last-second shot by unemployed bum Bryce Drew.
You think that 1998 loss still stings in Oxford, MS?
Btw, Ole Miss finished 15-17 overall and 6-12 in conference, two spots in front of last place Vanderbilt.
Yes yes it does. Their fans still mention that game on Twitter. I can't wait until the day that we win more tournament games and make other big school fanbases feel that way and remember the name of Valparaiso University. Florida State probably doesn't like very much that we are 2-0 all time against them either. That NIT game was fun. Next to the SMC game a few days later it was one of the best atmospheres I've ever been a part of.
I thought the Boise State-Mountain West drama was over... It's not... This is much more impactful for football but the wider implications of what this could mean bear watching. If Boise State leaves the MWC for the AAC (I don't think they would do independence):
1. Where do their Olympic Sports go? (WAC? Big Sky? WCC?)
2. Are they the only team? Or will they be part of a greater western expansion strategy by the AAC that could include the likes of Air Force BYU and San Diego State?
3. Would the AAC then allow the Olympic sports of these schools to come aboard if there are multiple western teams? If not, where do they go?
3a. If the AAC does not allow the Olympic sports of these schools to come aboard, preferring a tighter footprint, would\can they court A10 schools and would the A10 schools listen considering the leagues are essentially on par with one another and that's BEFORE UConn leaves?
3b. Does the loss of Boise State (and potentially others) cause the MWC to take a more basketball centric turn in order to maintain its strength and attractiveness to media outlets by courting basketball strength and soliciting Gonzaga and St Mary's for membership and\or courting BYU as an Olympics-only member?
3c. Since the WCC can already get to 3 bids on its own (and that's more than the MWC got this year) would any of the WCC schools mentioned be interested in separating themselves from their brethren and making what would probably be a 4-5 bid league?
4. Will this further stabilize or destabilize the WAC? If an opening exists in the MWC, you know WAC flagship New Mexico State is going to push very hard to get in. At the same time, adding one (or more) decent members would allow it to remain as a viable conference if everyone pulls together.
5. Boise State is by no means a basketball power; but they are a consistent top 150 team that provides a Q2 game for whoever plays them most years. That in itself is not an easy loss to stomach. Would the loss of (at least) Boise State:
5a. Impact its upcoming challenge with the A10?
5b. Move the conference behind the MVC in terms of basketball strength?
6. Would a loss of members by the MWC--especially if they lose multiple members or San Diego State specifically--motivate the Missouri Valley presidents to strike while the iron is hot and bring in some basketball power (Murray State? Belmont? Northern Kentucky?) for themselves to put the MVC ahead of the Mountain West
7. How does this impact Gonzaga? If the WCC loses BYU do they look elsewhere? Would a potentially reconstructed Mountain West be good enough for them or do they stay in the WCC which could take a hit if it loses BYU?
Here's an article from a few years ago (my how time flies) with some personal reflections on the Shot from various viewpoints, including Ole Miss players and fans. By the way, the author is now Editor of Uproxx.com's Sports sites, including Dime an NBA focused subsite.
https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2013/3/19/4119040/march-madness-valparaiso-ole-miss-buzzer-beater-history (https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2013/3/19/4119040/march-madness-valparaiso-ole-miss-buzzer-beater-history)
Florida A&M Major announcement tomorrow
Not sure what it is but it could be anything from a facilities upgrade to an athletic gear affiliation switch or possibly a conference move. Maybe they're going to the Atlantic Sun?
https://twitter.com/FAMUAthletics/status/1242813310434709504
The better HBCUs have seen the writing on the wall over the last few years, that they can't stick to crappy conferences like the SWAC and MEAC. I believe that Hampton was the first to make the move, and it won't be the last.
Or are they going to the relatively more stable SWAC? Who would you say is next to jump? NC Central? That would be who my money is on. As sad as it is that realignment is going to result in instability and the possible end of lower tier conferences like the WAC and MEAC and possibly the SWAC and therefore the cessation of longstanding and important annual rivalries, if it does happen it does open extra at large spots for conferences to battle for. It makes me wonder if maybe some of the upper tier mid majors will start to look at the smaller conferences for strength to battle for those spots.
It looks like Dave Leiteo of DePaul is going to get a contract extension. Leiteo has led DePaul to the cellar or next to the cellar of the Big East conference in the past 5 years. The basketball program is an embarrassment to Chicago.
i have seen a fair amount of DePaul in the last few years. They are an odd team in that they are talented and competitive and play with all teams in one of the best conferences top to bottom in the country...and they lose almost all of the time. Part of this is that they don't seem to have good end-of-game strategies and part of this is that their players just don't make plays down the stretch. I am surprised that they kept Leitao, but they do have a lot of talent that may leave if he were to leave.
A big problem is the athletic director and their "family run operation." For a city with such basketball talent (although overhyped at times), this is an embarrassment.
The Big East needs to boot DePaul and get a real midwestern program in there with a real fanbase that actually wants to move its program forward. Dayton would be nice. SLU would be an improvement. Heck I'd venture to say even Loyola despite its lower budget would be a better more impactful addition to the Big East than DePaul has been.
As for the Florida A&M announcement, it turned out to be nothing. Just some stuff about "virtual Friday" events. Hardly qualifies as a "Major Announcement." The fact that they called it one is insulting and embarrassing to that school's fans and alumni. I feel bad for them.
Good I hope the small conferences win! Immediate eligibility for transfers will kill all but the top 6 conferences viability to fight for anything more than whatever crumbs we are given.... Which means it'll probably pass anyway...
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1243593701143822338
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 26, 2020, 04:43:07 PM
The Big East needs to boot DePaul and get a real midwestern program in there with a real fanbase that actually wants to move its program forward. Dayton would be nice. SLU would be an improvement. Heck I'd venture to say even Loyola despite its lower budget would be a better more impactful addition to the Big East than DePaul has been.
I do not see DePaul getting booted. They are actually really strong in other sports (they are the dominant power in women's basketball). As for additions, Xavier will never allow Dayton to join the Big East (though it would be a great move). SLU has some financial problems (at least as far as I understand), though other schools in the Big East have some financial issues.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 28, 2020, 09:27:33 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 26, 2020, 04:43:07 PM
The Big East needs to boot DePaul and get a real midwestern program in there with a real fanbase that actually wants to move its program forward. Dayton would be nice. SLU would be an improvement. Heck I'd venture to say even Loyola despite its lower budget would be a better more impactful addition to the Big East than DePaul has been.
I do not see DePaul getting booted. They are actually really strong in other sports (they are the dominant power in women's basketball). As for additions, Xavier will never allow Dayton to join the Big East (though it would be a great move). SLU has some financial problems (at least as far as I understand), though other schools in the Big East have some financial issues.
Outside of UConn (which isn't the same as they can simply take money from the state), who has financial issues? Big East isn't going to add schools in the near future. They've moved to a 20 game conference schedule while maintaining a round robin, and none of the other possible adds would bring a bump in revenue.
It's pretty much impossible to kick a school out of a conference.
Prior to the coronavirus conference, there was at least one Big East member (Xavier) whose discount rate was well over 50%. They were having trouble getting students without deep discounts, as was SLU (who I believe had a similarly high discount rate).
Moving the vote from April to June would essentially kill many transfers that would only leave their school to be immediately eligible elsewhere. The folks that select to be in the transfer portal from April to June, would take up a lot of spots.
This news is not going to be taken well by the Daytons VCUs and URIs of the world that try to schedule up in the non-conference. This would be a bad move by the A10 and could lead to their bellwether programs jumping ship to a league like the AAC. I questioned whether any programs would consider leaving the A10 for the AAC as Olympics only members but if this happens, the AAC will have their pick of the top of the A10. This sounds like the conference commissioner shortchanging the top of the conference to help out the bottom and it is a strategy that will surely backfire if it is implemented.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1243940232468344832
Further as an MVC fan I'm with PO on this. Why couldn't we just have a tripartite challenge betweeen the A10 MVC and MWC where each school plays one home and one away game? It would be awesome for the fans and would engage fans throughout the whole country for a solid week while allowing good games for all to help their metrics as we all fight for at large bids. You don't think a couple of Q1 or Q2 games couldn't have helped everybody involved? It's ridiculous. Thompson Elgin and McGlade need to make this happen!
The reason it would not happen is that the A10 would want it to be A10, MWC and the American conference. I would like to be wrong, as your idea is a very good one.
The issue here is that the A10 has the same problem with the AAC as we in the MVC have with the A10. They want to be seen as a peer of the AAC; but even though it would be reasonable for the A10 to be considered a peer of the AAC, the AAC doesn't view the A10 that way. They would consider it a step beneath them to agree to a challenge with the A10. Sort of like how SLU snubbed us when we asked for a home and home. But I think that had more to do with our recent struggles in the MVC than anything else. If we start performing better, I think SLU would come around and give us that one for one.
The MWC dropped the MVC Challenge to play a better Conference Challege in their eyes. Let's be realistic the A-10, AAC will not start a challenge with the MVC. So time to look elsewhere like the Mid American or the Southern Conference. The MVC has a lot of similarities to the SoCon.
10 team conference.
3 teams with 20+ wins.
6 out of 10 teams with winning records
1 went 0-18 in conference.
The MVC ranked 11th this season while the SoCon finished 13th. In 2018-19 season the SoCon finished 11th while the MVC finished 14th. The conference is home to the "Wofford Effect" A school that was nationally ranked #20 and took a 7th seed in the NCAA tournament beating Seton Hall in the first round last year. Not to mention they beat #17 University of North Carolina this season. Not a bad conference to consider starting a challenge or at least schedule some games with.
If we can't get one of the conferences slightly above us to agree then I am all for the SOCON. No need to do anything with the MAC because we can play them in Home and Homes anytime we want. I would see if the WCC would be interested but I'm willing to bet that the answer to that is no. But as I said the SOCON would be an excellent get and maybe the best we could hope for. We both have a lot of bubble teams come Selection Sunday time so the benefit to both conferences could potentially be great in stealing one (or even a few) at large bids.
USC gets their all-time best recruit.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28981830/usc-signee-evan-mobley-named-morgan-wootten-national-player-year
MLB is looking like a genius compared to athletic director Jean Lenti Ponsetto at DePaul. How you give a coach whose team has finish consistently last in the conference a contract extension is pathetic. They play in a beautiful new arena and reside in a recruiting hotbed, but they are laughing stock of college basketball. This program needs a Roto Rooter enema.
Ouch!
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 05, 2020, 08:55:51 AM
MLB is looking like a genius compared to athletic director Jean Lenti Ponsetto at DePaul. How you give a coach whose team has finish consistently last in the conference a contract extension is pathetic. They play in a beautiful new arena and reside in a recruiting hotbed, but they are laughing stock of college basketball. This program needs a Roto Rooter enema.
Quote from: valpo64 on April 05, 2020, 10:43:39 AM
Ouch!
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/12mSYZebMGeCddGr-ZFiw3Dcc1k=/0x0:2000x1233/1200x800/filters:focal(791x63:1111x383)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/65833377/depaul.0.jpg)
A Roto Rooter enema? Ouch! that would really hurt!!
Wake Forest hires East Tennessee State head coach Steve Forbes as its next coach. This is a terrific hire but a sad day and a huge blow to one of the nation's best mid major programs over the past few years. Hopefully the next coach can keep things going for the Buccaneers.
Something I've always wondered: why don't more major cities follow Philadelphia's example with the Big 5 and play against each other? For example why aren't all of UIC Loyola Northwestern DePaul and Chicago State playing each other annually in home and homes that would get the city talking help out each university and generate media coverage? They could broadcast the games on NBC Sports Chicago for local media coverage as well. From an MVC standpoint, two shots each (minimum) at DePaul and Northwestern would be very attractive and would make me personally very receptive to the idea of adding UIC to the conference when you look at other factors like their outstanding basketball program as well as being good for the academic profile of the conference.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2020, 01:01:32 AM
...From an MVC standpoint, two shots each (minimum) at DePaul and Northwestern would be very attractive and would make me personally very receptive to the idea of adding UIC to the conference when you look at other factors ...
I think you have answered your own question. DePaul and Northwestern have no interest in regularly playing competition they perceive as beneath them. In the case of the Big 5, these are all programs with storied basketball histories (clearly some with more recent success). It is noteworthy that Drexel is not included in the Big 5. DePaul and Northwestern do not want to be perceived as peers of Chicago State or UIC, or try to compete with them for recruits.
There's also zero excitement or buzz around the city of Chicago for college basketball. Last year DePaul was 11-1 going into the Northwestern game and they still only put 6300 fans in the stands for their game.
I think they'd be better off replicating the Crossroads Classic with Illinois, Northwestern, DePaul and Loyola and doing a one day event, but given that DePaul and Northwestern play each other on a yearly basis where the home team takes home 100% of the revenue vs. 25% of the net amount if they were to do it at the United Center, I don't see there being a big appetite for it.
Augustana to receive virtual tour and Summit League membership vote in May.
https://letsgodu.com/2020/05/04/augustana-to-receive-a-virtual-tour-and-summit-membership-vote-this-month/
Sounds like Augustana will be joining the Summit League after all. They need a baseball school and although St Thomas already has the votes and the support it's possible their special vote could be delayed by the Pandemic also this article fails to consider the notion that a school like Western Illinois might be considering a move to benefit their bottom line and overall competitiveness (such as to the OVC) which would necessitate the SL adding both St Thomas AND Augustana in order to maintain it's baseball auto bid. If both St Thomas and Augustana join the SL with no defections it would mean that they are at that spooky dreaded 11 number which again further lessens non conference opportunities. Though it might actually help the MVC if leagues like the SL went to 20 games as it would open up more opportunities for MVC schools to get bought and then surprise a P5 on the road.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 05, 2020, 02:25:59 PM
Augustana to receive virtual tour and Summit League membership vote in May.
https://letsgodu.com/2020/05/04/augustana-to-receive-a-virtual-tour-and-summit-membership-vote-this-month/
Sounds like Augustana will be joining the Summit League after all. They need a baseball school and although St Thomas already has the votes and the support it's possible their special vote could be delayed by the Pandemic also this article fails to consider the notion that a school like Western Illinois might be considering a move to benefit their bottom line and overall competitiveness (such as to the OVC) which would necessitate the SL adding both St Thomas AND Augustana in order to maintain it's baseball auto bid. If both St Thomas and Augustana join the SL with no defections it would mean that they are at that spooky dreaded 11 number which again further lessens non conference opportunities. Though it might actually help the MVC if leagues like the SL went to 20 games as it would open up more opportunities for MVC schools to get bought and then surprise a P5 on the road.
Interesting that Denver would criticize Augustana for not having anything in common with most Summit league schools. Pot meet kettle.
I want them because it will potentially add another PFL football school. Also adds another private school should realignments change things in the future.
I very much doubt we will see Augustana in the MVC anytime soon. I like our current conference as it is. I like the Public\Private hybrid and think everyone is well served by this conference. I just wish we could do more to add good programs to strengthen it. I do like the idea of more "regional" PFL competition to help cut down on travel a bit for us most years. (St Thomas if they are able to join would also help in this regard as well.) As for the article I think this particular Denver fan's objections to Augustana in the SL are mostly twofold:
1. It makes the conference even more Dakota-centric and
2. The main boosters driving Augustana's potential move to D1 appear to have an extremely cozy relationship with the conference commissioner.
I can completely understand why these things would give him or any other SL members pause. Ultimately, I think Augustana will be accepted into the SL for several reasons chief among them being that it would stabilize Summit League baseball completely regardless of what happens. Like I mentioned earlier I don't think Fort Wayne is the only team that will exit soon. I really believe that Western Illinois is looking elsewhere as if anybody has become a poor fit for the conference it's them. The OVC would probably take them (if for no other reason than for their football and as a logical geographic replacement for Murray State should they change conferences) and that would be a much better fit for the Leathernecks.
Quote from: IndyValpo on May 05, 2020, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 05, 2020, 02:25:59 PM
Augustana to receive virtual tour and Summit League membership vote in May.
https://letsgodu.com/2020/05/04/augustana-to-receive-a-virtual-tour-and-summit-membership-vote-this-month/
Sounds like Augustana will be joining the Summit League after all. They need a baseball school and although St Thomas already has the votes and the support it's possible their special vote could be delayed by the Pandemic also this article fails to consider the notion that a school like Western Illinois might be considering a move to benefit their bottom line and overall competitiveness (such as to the OVC) which would necessitate the SL adding both St Thomas AND Augustana in order to maintain it's baseball auto bid. If both St Thomas and Augustana join the SL with no defections it would mean that they are at that spooky dreaded 11 number which again further lessens non conference opportunities. Though it might actually help the MVC if leagues like the SL went to 20 games as it would open up more opportunities for MVC schools to get bought and then surprise a P5 on the road.
Interesting that Denver would criticize Augustana for not having anything in common with most Summit league schools. Pot meet kettle.
I want them because it will potentially add another PFL football school. Also adds another private school should realignments change things in the future.
Another private "Lutheran" College/University to participate in NCAA Division 1 athletics is always welcoming to me! I believe that is 3 now.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 05, 2020, 03:27:22 PM
I very much doubt we will see Augustana in the MVC anytime soon. I like our current conference as it is. I like the Public\Private hybrid and think everyone is well served by this conference. I just wish we could do more to add good programs to strengthen it. I do like the idea of more "regional" PFL competition to help cut down on travel a bit for us most years. (St Thomas if they are able to join would also help in this regard as well.) As for the article I think this particular Denver fan's objections to Augustana in the SL are mostly twofold:
1. It makes the conference even more Dakota-centric and
2. The main boosters driving Augustana's potential move to D1 appear to have an extremely cozy relationship with the conference commissioner.
I can completely understand why these things would give him or any other SL members pause. Ultimately, I think Augustana will be accepted into the SL for several reasons chief among them being that it would stabilize Summit League baseball completely regardless of what happens. Like I mentioned earlier I don't think Fort Wayne is the only team that will exit soon. I really believe that Western Illinois is looking elsewhere as if anybody has become a poor fit for the conference it's them. The OVC would probably take them (if for no other reason than for their football and as a logical geographic replacement for Murray State should they change conferences) and that would be a much better fit for the Leathernecks.
I meant I want them in the SL. Hopefully they join the PFL. Same thought for St Thomas.
The problem beyond declining enrollment for WIU is they only fit geographically in the MVC and they have 0 chance of that.
I still don't understand why everyone thinks even the OVC is such a bad fit for WIU. They'd be in the same conference with EIU SEMO and SIUE. Even some of the farther trips in that conference have to be a lot better than what they're dealing with right now in the SL.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 05, 2020, 07:16:00 PM
I still don't understand why everyone thinks even the OVC is such a bad fit for WIU. They'd be in the same conference with EIU SEMO and SIUE. Even some of the farther trips in that conference have to be a lot better than what they're dealing with right now in the SL.
It isn't bad, I just don't think the OVC would be interested. If an opening occurs they have other options before Western.
Quote from: IndyValpo on May 05, 2020, 08:13:40 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on May 05, 2020, 07:16:00 PMI still don't understand why everyone thinks even the OVC is such a bad fit for WIU. They'd be in the same conference with EIU SEMO and SIUE. Even some of the farther trips in that conference have to be a lot better than what they're dealing with right now in the SL.
It isn't bad, I just don't think the OVC would be interested. If an opening occurs they have other options before Western.
They do? Like who?
Kennesaw State? Similar to WIU Good football bad basketball Better market though but stretches their footprint
North Alabama? I guess... Same deal though. Bad basketball Might be okay at football one day. At least they're an in state rival for Jacksonville State.
Bellarmine? No football.
Southern Indiana? No football. No known desire for D1 athletics.
Lipscomb? No football. Belmont probably wouldn't like them being in anyway (assuming they stay).
A D2 call-up? Maybe but no names jump immediately to my mind.
Bad news for mids
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1258049913738444800
Also I'm so glad that P5 programs are scheduling up. Talk to me again about what a grind their seasons are and then look at how they spend the first half of their season:
https://twitter.com/TheD1Docket/status/1257723566684061696
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1257722634902687750
Lord have mercy. Those are Murderer's row schedules. By all means when they're playing that level of competition in the non conference we should absolutely be admitting their .500 or below conference record having selves into the tournament come selection time if that's how they perform.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 06, 2020, 11:52:07 AM
Quote from: IndyValpo on May 05, 2020, 08:13:40 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on May 05, 2020, 07:16:00 PMI still don't understand why everyone thinks even the OVC is such a bad fit for WIU. They'd be in the same conference with EIU SEMO and SIUE. Even some of the farther trips in that conference have to be a lot better than what they're dealing with right now in the SL.
It isn't bad, I just don't think the OVC would be interested. If an opening occurs they have other options before Western.
They do? Like who?
Kennesaw State? Similar to WIU Good football bad basketball Better market though but stretches their footprint
North Alabama? I guess... Same deal though. Bad basketball Might be okay at football one day. At least they're an in state rival for Jacksonville State.
Bellarmine? No football.
Southern Indiana? No football. No known desire for D1 athletics.
Lipscomb? No football. Belmont probably wouldn't like them being in anyway (assuming they stay).
A D2 call-up? Maybe but no names jump immediately to my mind.
If bad basketball is the key have you seen WIU. In the last 21 years they 2 winning seasons. So that won't help.
If they look for football I would put N Ala, UTC, and ETSU all ahead, Kennesaw is a push. Above all of those they might go non football with NKU.
I didn't mention bad basketball as any kind of selling point for WIU. I know they're bad. But what I'm saying is that these programs are as bad or worse at basketball.
No chance UTC or ETSU give up the SOCON for the OVC. That league is better in both football and basketball as well as academically.
Why would NKU give up the Horizon for the OVC especially when the MVC is a possibility for them and remember that they would be REPLACING Murray State in this scenario if they went to the OVC they wouldn't be able to be in the league with the Racers. Considering that the OVC is worse than the HL WITH Murray State and Belmont it seems like quite a stretch to think that NKU would have any interest whatsoever in the OVC no matter how badly the HL screwed them over with their tournament site selection process.
N Alabama I agree could be a better all-around option because we don't know whether they'll be bad long term. They have no longstanding track record one way or the other.
Kennesaw State is about as bad but at least offers a better market.
I'd say it's neck and neck and neck between UNA Kennesaw and WIU. If they're looking for market they'll go Kennesaw. If they're looking to take a chance on a relative unknown they'll go UNA (though I have heard that UNA preferred the OVC to begin with when they were going D1 and the OVC somehow screwed up and alienated them so I don't know. But if geography matters (since they're losing Murray State in this scenario in the western part of their conference WIU is the most logical choice.) Perhaps they'd consider adding all three and going all in on football. And if Belmont leaves as a result they can grab Lipscomb as a ready replacement (like Belmont but not as good) and become once and for all a football conference as football would be greatly improved while basketball takes a major hit.
Something or nothing?
https://mobile.twitter.com/GoUTRGV/status/1258057183528394752
Could be a rebranding like a new logo or a new nickname or new uniforms, could be a new coach for a sport, could be adding a sport, could be a major facility upgrade, could be a move to the Southland. If it's a move to the Southland, you have to think that other WAC schools are going to be trying once again to find more stable homes.
Is it as big as FAMU's "major announcement"?
I thought that myself to be honest... Still I shared it because it could be a conversation piece. We'll find out early next week but you're right to have your expectations tempered significantly.
This is interesting... Not that anything will happen but it's certainly interesting.
https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/4/20/21227597/byu-football-independence-power-five-mountain-west-conference-coronavirus-pandemic-ncaa-football
More sad news for mids. Pittsburgh no longer playing Duquesne.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29176081/city-game-pitt-duquesne-return-2020
Very interesting writeup on NMSU. I still believe that a move to the Mountain West would be a great move for both. New Mexico State would benefit from having its football program in a stronger stable conference while the Mountain West would benefit from adding another strong basketball program which would help them as they chase the likes of Gonzaga. (I firmly believe that Gonzaga will join the MWC one day alongside St Mary's and perhaps BYU to create a power basketball league that the West could really use.
http://forgotten5.com/2020/05/11/the-future-of-the-new-mexico-state-aggies-and-the-western-athletic-conference-part-1/
What in the world? This strikes me as short-sighted and bad management.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1262116548782837760
Really makes you wonder... The whole staff is gone too... Why now? So late in the season? With so many years left on his deal? So late in off-season recruiting? (I think we're in the dead period now) so if anyone transfers they can't immediately go find replacement.)
Speculation but would be a shocker if true and a huge blow to the HL.
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/1262142766152368134
UW-Green Bay had $1.9M in expenses for men's basketball and another $1.3M for women's basketball in the 2018-2019 season, so their expenses combined for 2019-2020 were probably about $3.5M. They lost NCAA tournament money and some other revenues for the 2019-2020 season and any revenues for 2020-2021 are questionable. I have no idea if it really is the reason, but a lot of universities will be facing financial realities and will consider suspending athletics or finding other ways to seriously lower costs.
By the way, don't be surprised that if the reasons are financial at UWGB that UW-Milwaukee might follow suit (though UWM's overall situation is a bit better than UWGB, due to much lower reliance on housing students and more students already taking classes online).
If this turns out to be true I would have lost a lot of money betting against Green Bay dropping out of D1 before a school like Chicago State. I doubt Milwaukee follows but if it can happen to them it can happen to any school and it has me worried about us and other MVC schools. Hopefully all D1 programs can survive this and stay where they are.
I heard something really crazy happened at Chicago St's Board of Trustees Meeting today, but am still piecing it together. If anyone finds more information, post it!
Word is they are either considering (or have decided to) cut baseball which drops them under the two men's team sports requirement to remain at D1. Perhaps they will start a new cheaper program to stay afloat but that is a really bad sign.
As for Green Bay word is that they are in fact staying D1 according to their chancellor. That makes this move to fire that coach even stranger.
MWC going to 20 conference games in two years... And SDSU is not happy about it...
I really think the AAC's dream of a western expansion is going to come to fruition.
SDSU doesn't like the direction they're taking in basketball...
Boise State's just pissed at the conference in general...
Air Force's coach questions whether the MWC is the best home for their football program in terms of exposure and sounds like he would prefer eastern kick times to the late times out west.
All three of these schools to one degree or another would interest the AAC and the WCC would probably take all of them for Olympic sports if the AAC doesn't want them as full members.
If the AAC does not take them as full members they add some combination of VCU Dayton and SLU and decimate the A10.
The Valley should make a move and get whatever strong programs they can to come aboard ASAP.
Even if it won't help us get at large bids we should make our conference as strong as possible to make the conference season as compelling as possible and prepare our champion as well as possible for the tournament. We should strive to be the true best of the rest.
This is interesting
https://www.si.com/college/2020/05/15/ncaa-college-football-return-campus-coronavirus
According to ESPN the TVI (Team Value Index) that is critical to the NET ratings is most comparable to Strength of Record (SOR). So if we want to assess a team's at large chances we should look at their SOR. The best thing teams can do to make this metric is to win and win convincingly while challenging themselves whenever they can it would appear. I hope all MVC teams are doing that and right now the early returns look pretty promising. Most schedules look to be shaping up very well.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29165019/bracketology-changed-ncaa-net-rankings-tool
And yet if this were UT-Austin it would be crickets from the NCAA...
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29200368/stephen-f-austin-facing-ncaa-penalties-lack-institutional-control
Translation: probably not good for us...
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaa-announces-changes-to-simplify-formula-for-college-basketballs-net-ratings/
It is amazing how accurate Jerry Tarkanian was about the NCAA and how it will continue to punish Cleveland State.
"Winning percentage, adjusted winning percentage and scoring margin will no longer be components in the NCAA Evaluation Tool (NET) used to judge Division I basketball teams, the NCAA announced Monday."
"The NET will now use just two factors in its evaluation: team value index (TVI) and adjusted net efficiency rating. Team value index is "a result-based feature that rewards teams for beating quality opponents, particularly away from home," while adjusted net efficiency rating accounts for "strength of opponent and location across all games played."
Of the 5 major NET components it appears that they eliminated the only 3 that don't provide the "bigs" with a built-in advantage - winning percentage, adjusted winning percentage and scoring margin.
So, is there an agenda here, or are we expected to believe this is just about "simplification." Only 2 years ago the NET was promoted as the end-all—be-all statistical formulation devised by the gurus of college basketball ranking systems. Then out of the blue it's gutted. So, are we expected to believe these people weren't smart enough to recognize "needless duplication" in their formula? I don't think so.
Quote from: wh on May 21, 2020, 09:16:38 AM
"Winning percentage, adjusted winning percentage and scoring margin will no longer be components in the NCAA Evaluation Tool (NET) used to judge Division I basketball teams, the NCAA announced Monday."
"The NET will now use just two factors in its evaluation: team value index (TVI) and adjusted net efficiency rating. Team value index is "a result-based feature that rewards teams for beating quality opponents, particularly away from home," while adjusted net efficiency rating accounts for "strength of opponent and location across all games played."
Of the 5 major NET components it appears that they eliminated the only 3 that don't provide the "bigs" with a built-in advantage - winning percentage, adjusted winning percentage and scoring margin.
So, is there an agenda here, or are we expected to believe this is just about "simplification." Only 2 years ago the NET was promoted as the end-all—be-all statistical formulation devised by the gurus of college basketball ranking systems. Then out of the blue it's gutted. So, are we expected to believe these people weren't smart enough to recognize "needless duplication" in their formula? I don't think so.
Well stated. Is it a coincidence the formula is being changed the year after Mark LaBarbera stated on Union Street Hoops that he had figured out the system (with the help of Wofford)? I don't think so.
UAB with a nice scheduling get.
https://twitter.com/LucasEverett13/status/1263539429886525440
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1263197038780522496
The MVC needs to do something soon if it wants to protect its status as a potential multibid league. We either:
1. Need to get really aggressive and creative with the OOC scheduling begging borrowing and stealing for any quality games we can get or
2. Expand the conference with as many quality programs as we can get and garner league strength that way. Or
3. Some combination of both
I don't care which one they ultimately decide to do but doing nothing is not and cannot be an option.
No transfer exemption...Yet...
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1263254524401238019
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 21, 2020, 10:49:34 AMQuote from: wh on May 21, 2020, 09:16:38 AM"Winning percentage, adjusted winning percentage and scoring margin will no longer be components in the NCAA Evaluation Tool (NET) used to judge Division I basketball teams, the NCAA announced Monday." "The NET will now use just two factors in its evaluation: team value index (TVI) and adjusted net efficiency rating. Team value index is "a result-based feature that rewards teams for beating quality opponents, particularly away from home," while adjusted net efficiency rating accounts for "strength of opponent and location across all games played." Of the 5 major NET components it appears that they eliminated the only 3 that don't provide the "bigs" with a built-in advantage - winning percentage, adjusted winning percentage and scoring margin. So, is there an agenda here, or are we expected to believe this is just about "simplification." Only 2 years ago the NET was promoted as the end-all—be-all statistical formulation devised by the gurus of college basketball ranking systems. Then out of the blue it's gutted. So, are we expected to believe these people weren't smart enough to recognize "needless duplication" in their formula? I don't think so.
Well stated. Is it a coincidence the formula is being changed the year after Mark LaBarbera stated on Union Street Hoops that he had figured out the system (with the help of Wofford)? I don't think so.
Had Wofford really figured out the NET? Are we absolutely sure of that? Keep in mind the SOCON is a good conference similar in strength to the MVC. Were they in for sure regardless of their conference tournament results that year they were really good? We don't know and we never will. It's dangerous I think to think of Wofford the year before last as any kind of model for NET success as a mid major.
So... when do Kentucky Louisville North Carolina Duke USC Auburn Kansas LSU Arizona and all these other programs guilty of serious violations recently serve their postseason bans? Hello? NCAA? Anyone? Bueller?
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2020/5/19/21263878/stephen-f-austin-sfa-apr-ban-ncaa-mens-basketball-2021-22
I know this is about the A10 and the AAC but this point is important for the MVC as well... This is why I'm pro expansion for the right programs and also why I think we should enter into as many challenges as possible to get quality teams on the schedule.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1264563148046118912
Not sure if this is about basketball as well but this makes a lot of sense for everyone involved. Perhaps it could lead to an east-west shuffle up for the two conferences to tighten geographic footprint and thereby improve everyone's lot by saving them money to invest in other areas.
https://krod.com/conference-usa-and-sun-belt-could-combine-in-pandemic-recovery/
13-14, USC get hammered terribly and in my opinion unfairly from the NCAA. They put football back 10 years with the sanctions. What Reggie Bush and the family did was wrong, but the punishment was worse than the violation.
On the positive end, I think the NCAA is gradually going on a journey nonexistence, which will be good.
USC's program has been questioned off and on for a for a good number of years . Maybe the NCAA in their "infinite wisdom" felt it had enough of it. After all, who can figure out the NCAA anyway?
Part of the problem In the past 50 years is that USCs administration has been very wimpy on fighting the NCAA and has taken a Neville Chamberlain approach. What happen with the Bush incident was wrong but the punishment was close to the death penalty.
Again, I think the NCAA is dissolving, which is probably good. When the president is making seven figures in a non profit organization promoting the student athlete, something is wrong.
BTW, what is happening to SFA is a complete joke.
I know the NCAA sucks in so many ways because it cannot (or will not) discipline all of its schools fairly and its enforcement practices are often lacking and inconsistent but what would happen to schools like ours and competition if it went away? Would there be separate leagues and divisions? Would we still get to play P5 competition? Or would we compete for championships at our own level?
There is a model for what college basketball and other sports would look like if the NCAA went away....FBS/FCS. The Power 5 conferences and the Big East would structure it so that only their schools would have any reasonable chance at National Championships, allowing just enough room for participation from the other conferences to avoid being found in violation of antitrust laws. If you are a Valpo fan, you do not want the NCAA to go away.
As a proud Valparaiso and USC alum, I am mixed about this. I still think the NCAA needs an enema.
Even if they got an enema, they would only burp and they still would be full of it.
This op piece about a SUPER A conference from 2011 still has relevancy... and may be closer to reality now ....
https://www.bloggersodear.com/2011/9/21/2439658/ncaa-boiling-point-our-conference-on-the-left-is-now-our-conference (https://www.bloggersodear.com/2011/9/21/2439658/ncaa-boiling-point-our-conference-on-the-left-is-now-our-conference)
RMU very possible to join the HL...
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1268301153629945856?s=21
FAMU likely to join SWAC...
https://hbcugameday.com/2020/06/03/famu-bot-moves-with-caution-and-excitement-toward-swac-move/
MVC\Murray State:
Crickets....
FAMU officially moves to the SWAC. University trustees and SWAC membership having both OK'd the move. I think this is a terrific move for both the school and the conference. The MEAC is in trouble. Would not be surprised if schools like NC Central and Norfolk State (among others) are looking for the exit.
Good news for the DePaul fans on this board and good news for JFL as he begins his Blue Demons career!
https://twitter.com/WeAreDePaul/status/1268720433408413698
So happy for that program. They can finally move forward and (hopefully) return to prominence.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 04, 2020, 11:37:30 PM
Good news for the DePaul fans on this board and good news for JFL as he begins his Blue Demons career!
https://twitter.com/WeAreDePaul/status/1268720433408413698
So happy for that program. They can finally move forward and (hopefully) return to prominence.
Does DePaul have a football team??
Quote from: vu72 on June 05, 2020, 08:10:42 AM
Does DePaul have a football team??
Until 2015.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DePaul_Blue_Demons#Football_2
DePaul fielded a football club team in the National Club Football Association until 2015.Not what you meant, huh? ;)
I also know that Lincoln Park has an Australian Rules Football league that many DePaul students play in and there is one American playing professional Aussie Rules Football who started out in the Lincoln Park ARF league. A noted DePaul grad told me all about it during my visit to his sales establishment.
Quote from: bbtds on June 05, 2020, 09:53:57 AM
Quote from: vu72 on June 05, 2020, 08:10:42 AM
Does DePaul have a football team??
Until 2015.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DePaul_Blue_Demons#Football_2
DePaul fielded a football club team in the National Club Football Association until 2015.
Not what you meant, huh? ;)
So it really isn't a "team" but a "club". Do they play flag football? :rotfl:
This is some shockingly stupid and lazy analysis. They may have been the westernmost school in the NEC but they were also far and away its best program historically and the conference's biggest threat to do anything at all in the NCAA Tournament. Remember this team took down Kentucky in the NIT. They may have found a new flagship member in Merrimack but losing your best member with the richest basketball tradition in your conference is never a good look. I can't believe this is being look at as good riddance to bad rubbish for the NEC and not as the tremendously good move that it is for the Horizon League which has now opened Western Pennsylvania for recruiting and pulled the conference further east around its new bellcows Wright State NKU and (possibly) Oakland. I think RMU will thrive in the HL and become a leading member pretty short order. I like this move a lot for both the school and the conference and am absolutely floored at how casually MMM is treating this news.
https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/1271133459298357248
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 11, 2020, 02:29:05 PMThis is some shockingly stupid and lazy analysis. They may have been the westernmost school in the NEC but they were also far and away its best program historically and the conference's biggest threat to do anything at all in the NCAA Tournament. Remember this team took down Kentucky in the NIT. They may have found a new flagship member in Merrimack but losing your best member with the richest basketball tradition in your conference is never a good look. I can't believe this is being look at as good riddance to bad rubbish for the NEC and not as the tremendously good move that it is for the Horizon League which has now opened Western Pennsylvania for recruiting and pulled the conference further east around its new bellcows Wright State NKU and (possibly) Oakland. I think RMU will thrive in the HL and become a leading member pretty short order. I like this move a lot for both the school and the conference and am absolutely floored at how casually MMM is treating this news. https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/1271133459298357248
I think you're completely misinterpreting and overreacting to the tweet.
How so? Do you believe it to have been written sarcastically? That's the only way this makes sense. Losing your flagship program is never good.
Ponsetto out at DePaul is wonderful for the university and Chicago college sports. Why it took so long for this to happen is beyond my comprehension.
I wonder if MLB is updating his resume. Lincoln Park is a wonderful neighborhood.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 12, 2020, 06:06:36 AMHow so? Do you believe it to have been written sarcastically?
Yes. It was a joke about a bus ride which apparently isn't a lot of fun. I don't think there was any malice whatsoever in the tweet.
Speaking of bus rides, NJIT will now be able to take the bus more often as they have found a new home in the America East Conference which is such a better geographic fit for the University. Previously their nearest conference school was Liberty a 61/2 hour drive south. Now the Highlanders can head east on the LIE and be in Stony Brook in an hour and a half. I feel this is a good move for both the Amer. East and NJIT. It adds a 10th member to the conference and brings the Highlanders back east to compete more regionally.
https://www.nj.com/sports/2020/06/njit-leaves-atlantic-sun-conference-joins-america-east.html
22 HL games is a bad bad bad idea, especially if you're playing non D1s at home.
https://www.vindy.com/sports/local-sports/2020/06/neighborhood-rival/
Wow looks like we weren't the only ones having issues leaving a previous conference. NKU just paid the ASUN a lot of money. Money NJIT probably won't be sharing in. But they are saving a quarter of a million per year on travel now that they're in the HL and there's something to be said for that. I wonder if they'd consider foregoing that travel savings to step up in weight class should the MVC come calling.
https://www.rcnky.com/articles/2016/03/04/nku-reaches-settlement-agreement-atlantic-sun-after-move-horizon-league
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 13, 2020, 11:07:00 AM
22 HL games is a bad bad bad idea, especially if you're playing non D1s at home.
https://www.vindy.com/sports/local-sports/2020/06/neighborhood-rival/
I don't know if it's really a bad idea considering only one team in the league is getting into the tourney, they aren't getting any interesting non-conference games at home already and they'd be able to continue doing the round-robin travel partner format.
I also don't think adding NKU would significantly benefit them or the MVC outside of going to 20 or more conference games. Belmont or Murray State could potentially add a bid every so often, and at some point the MVC is going to have to move to a 20 game league schedule IMO.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 13, 2020, 11:07:00 AM
22 HL games is a bad bad bad idea, especially if you're playing non D1s at home.
https://www.vindy.com/sports/local-sports/2020/06/neighborhood-rival/
Completely disagree the HL is a one bid league so having another conference home game makes sense to me.
Quote from: IndyValpo on June 13, 2020, 03:40:36 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 13, 2020, 11:07:00 AM
22 HL games is a bad bad bad idea, especially if you're playing non D1s at home.
https://www.vindy.com/sports/local-sports/2020/06/neighborhood-rival/
Completely disagree the HL is a one bid league so having another conference home game makes sense to me.
On what basis? Butler?
Quote from: vu72 on June 13, 2020, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on June 13, 2020, 03:40:36 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 13, 2020, 11:07:00 AM
22 HL games is a bad bad bad idea, especially if you're playing non D1s at home.
https://www.vindy.com/sports/local-sports/2020/06/neighborhood-rival/
Completely disagree the HL is a one bid league so having another conference home game makes sense to me.
On what basis? Butler?
Missing a comma after disagree. The HL is a 1 bid league.
Congrats to NJIT! I remember when they were just scraping by as an Independent, before the Atlantic Sun threw them a lifeline. They were fairly decent at that time.
Scraping by to beat #17 Michigan in Ann Arbor ;) at the time they could be considered the Chicago St. of the Northeast in the world of basketball. The positive is that the University has invested immensely in their athletic programs. Since 2017-18 NJIT calls the beautiful new 3,500 seat Wellness and Events Center home. Although their attendance is subpar averaging just over 700 a game, I am glad to see them in a competitive conference that is close to home.
NJIT is in a tough location to attract fans without serious success that draws national attention but I do think being in a regional conference with more recognizable teams and brands will help them. I don't see them selling out consistently unless they start running that conference but an increase in attendance can absolutely be expected.
Interesting take here. At massive institutions, often times the ADs are glorified fundraisers.
https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1276269390640676868?s=21
https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1276269981991395328?s=21
Athletic Departments and university budget cuts. Some universities have much larger budget issues than VU. Interesting article from Cleveland.com about Akron's financial woes and plans for their Athletic budget and debate about staying in MAC -- https://www.cleveland.com/education/2020/07/university-of-akron-faculty-union-spar-over-funding-for-athletics.html?utm_source=akron-morning-roundup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200707&utm_content=article2-readmore (https://www.cleveland.com/education/2020/07/university-of-akron-faculty-union-spar-over-funding-for-athletics.html?utm_source=akron-morning-roundup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200707&utm_content=article2-readmore)
A little business lesson for anyone who may be interested. Akron, Valpo, my alma mater, and possibly 100's of other universities with traditional residential campuses are clearly in the final business stage - decline. They missed the window to proactively reposition/reinvent themselves when market forces were changing, so they have no choice but to slash budgets in a desperate attempt to stop the death spiral. A 20% budget deficit in a capital intensive industry with limited variable cost reduction options is VERY difficult to turn around. It's not a matter of either/or, academics vs. athletics; it's both. There are no sacred cows. Employee unions become paper tigers. They can threaten and file grievances, but they have little if any leverage left. Cleaning up a financial mess while remaining relevant, maintaining a positive image, keeping credit lines open with banks and vendors, etc. is the greatest of all business challenges. One last thing, it's an unwritten rule in business turnarounds - never allow the same CEO who captained the decline to lead the recovery. It's destained to fail. Put in in the hands of experts (turnaround artists or consulting companies with complete oversight). My .02 for what it's worth.
If Akron leaves the MAC where would they go? Horizon would be the best geographic fit but would the MVC be interested\would they be interested in the MVC?
Eron Gordon's most recent Vlog
https://twitter.com/valpo_hoops/status/1285360253505241092?s=21
This sucks for Belmont and by extension for all mid major basketball because this crap keeps happening even before the one time transfer exception probably kicks in.... You really hate to see it....
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1285730884075872256
Wow 😳. I didn't see that coming. I think it just goes to show that, yes NCAA Football and NCAA Men's football generate lots of revenue (for a limited amount of schools) but college athletics is not as profitable as people make it out to be.
Those who are in favor of paying student-athletes don't see the whole financial picture...
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1301250172215754752?s=21
NCAA ≠ power conference schools. If it ever comes to pass, professional NCAA athletes would be paid by their schools, where the money is, not the NCAA.
FWIW, this is why paying college athletes would widen the gap between power schools and everyone else.
Sigh... We're going to end up with two separate tournaments aren't we?
Some chatter that Chicago State was considering a move to a new conference with the Horizon and the OVC as options and the OVC considered more likely. Also here's this nugget from Tarleton State's President (Skip to around 1 hr 3 minutes) Sounds like the WAC is getting a new member. Some speculation on other boards that it might be West Texas A&M. It feels like the WAC is reforming with a true regional identity now and that is good for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuD1RiYnSuE
West Texas A&M is a former D-1 institution, many years ago. It wouldn't be a complete surprise.
Not only that but a former national champion if I'm not mistaken.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 03, 2020, 06:28:15 AM
Not only that but a former national champion if I'm not mistaken.
I think that you are confusing them with Texas Western in 1966. Texas Western subsequently changed its name to Texas-El Paso.
Quote from: vu84v2 on October 03, 2020, 01:20:01 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 03, 2020, 06:28:15 AMNot only that but a former national champion if I'm not mistaken.
I think that you are confusing them with Texas Western in 1966. Texas Western subsequently changed its name to Texas-El Paso.
Then yes I am indeed mistaken. Thank you for clearing that up. I thought it was either West Texas A&M or a school that later became UTEP but I wasn't clear on which one. Thanks again!
Big things for Austin Peay a rising OVC school.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/new-digs-for-austin-peay/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 02:03:36 AM
Big things for Austin Peay a rising OVC school.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/new-digs-for-austin-peay/
I liked Austin Peay's campus, and this sounds like a good move for them. They have actually done pretty well in football recently, as well.
Quote from: valpotx on October 04, 2020, 03:36:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 02:03:36 AMBig things for Austin Peay a rising OVC school. http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/new-digs-for-austin-peay/
I liked Austin Peay's campus, and this sounds like a good move for them. They have actually done pretty well in football recently, as well.
Their basketball team has come on very strong in recent years as well. I know that they had been successful historically and are a big rival of Murray State but they had a pretty long period in obscurity. It appears however that Matt Figger has brought them back and now they will have a beautiful new facility to call home. Maybe they're angling for a new higher level conference home? The strategy of building a nice new arena worked for Robert Morris, maybe it'll work for them. I understand that Robert Morris was a target for the HL for a long time and that they got in on the strength of their program clearly but you have to believe the arena helped.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 04:55:51 AM
Quote from: valpotx on October 04, 2020, 03:36:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 02:03:36 AMBig things for Austin Peay a rising OVC school. http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/new-digs-for-austin-peay/
I liked Austin Peay's campus, and this sounds like a good move for them. They have actually done pretty well in football recently, as well.
Their basketball team has come on very strong in recent years as well. I know that they had been successful historically and are a big rival of Murray State but they had a pretty long period in obscurity. It appears however that Matt Figger has brought them back and now they will have a beautiful new facility to call home. Maybe they're angling for a new higher level conference home? The strategy of building a nice new arena worked for Robert Morris, maybe it'll work for them. I understand that Robert Morris was a target for the HL for a long time and that they got in on the strength of their program clearly but you have to believe the arena helped.
Once again, a school benefits from being in a larger population area. They didn't build it, it is a county facility that they are using. Just like Evansville and others. Clarksville is a suburb of Nashville. Not a small town like Valpo.
Quote from: vu72 on October 04, 2020, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 04:55:51 AM
Quote from: valpotx on October 04, 2020, 03:36:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 02:03:36 AMBig things for Austin Peay a rising OVC school. http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/new-digs-for-austin-peay/
I liked Austin Peay's campus, and this sounds like a good move for them. They have actually done pretty well in football recently, as well.
Their basketball team has come on very strong in recent years as well. I know that they had been successful historically and are a big rival of Murray State but they had a pretty long period in obscurity. It appears however that Matt Figger has brought them back and now they will have a beautiful new facility to call home. Maybe they're angling for a new higher level conference home? The strategy of building a nice new arena worked for Robert Morris, maybe it'll work for them. I understand that Robert Morris was a target for the HL for a long time and that they got in on the strength of their program clearly but you have to believe the arena helped.
Once again, a school benefits from being in a larger population area. They didn't build it, it is a county facility that they are using. Just like Evansville and others. Clarksville is a suburb of Nashville. Not a small town like Valpo.
If it's any consolation, I can't imagine any new tax payer funded arenas/stadiums/convention centers being built for years to come. Many large cities have gone from severely in the red before COVID to financial ruin now. Add to that the rioting, looting, arson, murder and mayhem, handcuffing police, reducing police funding, underfunded pension plans, junk bond ratings, over the top tax rates, etc., and large cities are self-destructing before our eyes. What's more, the business world has learned that large trade shows, conferences, and even face-to-face meetings are not necessary. Most of that stuff is just a big boondoggle and always has been. People/companies participated, myself included, because that's the way the game was played. Since these cities have shut down and all of that stuff cancelled, I haven't talked to a person who says they miss it. The arrogance of big city mayors to think that after shutting their economy down, placating rioting and looting in downtown commercial/tourist areas, and stabbing their police departments in the back, that they can simply flip the switch back on whenever they want and everyone will come flooding back is mind boggling. They have foolishly squandered all trust and credibility with the paying public. I fear it will take many painful years and regime changes to earn it back.
Quote from: wh on October 05, 2020, 11:38:12 AMWhat's more, the business world has learned that large trade shows, conferences, and even face-to-face meetings are not necessary. Most of that stuff is just a big boondoggle and always has been. People/companies participated, myself included, because that's the way the game was played. Since these cities have shut down and all of that stuff cancelled, I haven't talked to a person who says they miss it.
Not to take us further down this tangent, but... I haven't talked to many peoole who
don't miss it at this point. Clearly we know different people :lol:
Quote from: PlumStreetBum on October 06, 2020, 07:25:02 AM
Quote from: wh on October 05, 2020, 11:38:12 AMWhat's more, the business world has learned that large trade shows, conferences, and even face-to-face meetings are not necessary. Most of that stuff is just a big boondoggle and always has been. People/companies participated, myself included, because that's the way the game was played. Since these cities have shut down and all of that stuff cancelled, I haven't talked to a person who says they miss it.
Not to take us further down this tangent, but... I haven't talked to many peoole who don't miss it at this point. Clearly we know different people :lol:
I'm referring to those who pay the bills for their organizations and employees to attend conferences, trade shows, symposiums, lectures, training sessions, airline tickets, hotels, rental cars, Meals, mileage, etc. Add to that wining and dining clients, tickets to sporting events, theater, meals, bar tabs, gifts, corporate tables at community dinner events, golf outings, etc. To your point, I'm sure there are many people on the receiving end (employees and clients alike) who miss it dearly. ;)
Quote from: vu72 on October 04, 2020, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 04:55:51 AM
Quote from: valpotx on October 04, 2020, 03:36:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 02:03:36 AMBig things for Austin Peay a rising OVC school. http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/new-digs-for-austin-peay/
I liked Austin Peay's campus, and this sounds like a good move for them. They have actually done pretty well in football recently, as well.
Their basketball team has come on very strong in recent years as well. I know that they had been successful historically and are a big rival of Murray State but they had a pretty long period in obscurity. It appears however that Matt Figger has brought them back and now they will have a beautiful new facility to call home. Maybe they're angling for a new higher level conference home? The strategy of building a nice new arena worked for Robert Morris, maybe it'll work for them. I understand that Robert Morris was a target for the HL for a long time and that they got in on the strength of their program clearly but you have to believe the arena helped.
Once again, a school benefits from being in a larger population area. They didn't build it, it is a county facility that they are using. Just like Evansville and others. Clarksville is a suburb of Nashville. Not a small town like Valpo.
Clarksville is a city of about 150,000 the 5th largest in TN. They are not a suburb of Nashville, however. The are about an hour northwest.
Quote from: wh on October 06, 2020, 11:46:28 AMQuote from: PlumStreetBum on October 06, 2020, 07:25:02 AMQuote from: wh on October 05, 2020, 11:38:12 AMWhat's more, the business world has learned that large trade shows, conferences, and even face-to-face meetings are not necessary. Most of that stuff is just a big boondoggle and always has been. People/companies participated, myself included, because that's the way the game was played. Since these cities have shut down and all of that stuff cancelled, I haven't talked to a person who says they miss it.
Not to take us further down this tangent, but... I haven't talked to many peoole who don't miss it at this point. Clearly we know different people :lol:
I'm referring to those who pay the bills for their organizations and employees to attend conferences, trade shows, symposiums, lectures, training sessions, airline tickets, hotels, rental cars, Meals, mileage, etc. Add to that wining and dining clients, tickets to sporting events, theater, meals, bar tabs, gifts, corporate tables at community dinner events, golf outings, etc. To your point, I'm sure there are many people on the receiving end (employees and clients alike) who miss it dearly. ;)
I see we are natural enemies: Sales vs Finance, a rivalry for the ages!
:cheers:
Quote from: wh on October 05, 2020, 11:38:12 AM
Quote from: vu72 on October 04, 2020, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 04:55:51 AM
Quote from: valpotx on October 04, 2020, 03:36:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 02:03:36 AMBig things for Austin Peay a rising OVC school. http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/new-digs-for-austin-peay/
I liked Austin Peay's campus, and this sounds like a good move for them. They have actually done pretty well in football recently, as well.
Their basketball team has come on very strong in recent years as well. I know that they had been successful historically and are a big rival of Murray State but they had a pretty long period in obscurity. It appears however that Matt Figger has brought them back and now they will have a beautiful new facility to call home. Maybe they're angling for a new higher level conference home? The strategy of building a nice new arena worked for Robert Morris, maybe it'll work for them. I understand that Robert Morris was a target for the HL for a long time and that they got in on the strength of their program clearly but you have to believe the arena helped.
Once again, a school benefits from being in a larger population area. They didn't build it, it is a county facility that they are using. Just like Evansville and others. Clarksville is a suburb of Nashville. Not a small town like Valpo.
If it's any consolation, I can't imagine any new tax payer funded arenas/stadiums/convention centers being built for years to come. Many large cities have gone from severely in the red before COVID to financial ruin now. Add to that the rioting, looting, arson, murder and mayhem, handcuffing police, reducing police funding, underfunded pension plans, junk bond ratings, over the top tax rates, etc., and large cities are self-destructing before our eyes. What's more, the business world has learned that large trade shows, conferences, and even face-to-face meetings are not necessary. Most of that stuff is just a big boondoggle and always has been. People/companies participated, myself included, because that's the way the game was played. Since these cities have shut down and all of that stuff cancelled, I haven't talked to a person who says they miss it. The arrogance of big city mayors to think that after shutting their economy down, placating rioting and looting in downtown commercial/tourist areas, and stabbing their police departments in the back, that they can simply flip the switch back on whenever they want and everyone will come flooding back is mind boggling. They have foolishly squandered all trust and credibility with the paying public. I fear it will take many painful years and regime changes to earn it back.
You only wish this was so. Once the pandemic and the vaccine is in place and tRump is no longing stroking the descension between the left & right wings the big cities will regain the destination statuses that they formally held. Getting the tRumpster out of office will seem like a miracle happening for big cities. Chicago was just voted the #1 destination, dispite all the issues, by a major publication.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.curbed.com/platform/amp/2019/10/7/20902970/chicago-best-big-city-visit-conde-nast-traveler-tourism
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chicago.com/amp/chicago-best-city-to-visit-big-cities-in-america-cond%25C3%25A9-nast-traveler-poll-votes/6837311/
Quote from: IndyValpo on October 06, 2020, 04:36:08 PM
Quote from: vu72 on October 04, 2020, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 04:55:51 AM
Quote from: valpotx on October 04, 2020, 03:36:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 04, 2020, 02:03:36 AMBig things for Austin Peay a rising OVC school. http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/new-digs-for-austin-peay/
I liked Austin Peay's campus, and this sounds like a good move for them. They have actually done pretty well in football recently, as well.
Their basketball team has come on very strong in recent years as well. I know that they had been successful historically and are a big rival of Murray State but they had a pretty long period in obscurity. It appears however that Matt Figger has brought them back and now they will have a beautiful new facility to call home. Maybe they're angling for a new higher level conference home? The strategy of building a nice new arena worked for Robert Morris, maybe it'll work for them. I understand that Robert Morris was a target for the HL for a long time and that they got in on the strength of their program clearly but you have to believe the arena helped.
Once again, a school benefits from being in a larger population area. They didn't build it, it is a county facility that they are using. Just like Evansville and others. Clarksville is a suburb of Nashville. Not a small town like Valpo.
Clarksville is a city of about 150,000 the 5th largest in TN. They are not a suburb of Nashville, however. The are about an hour northwest.
I should have said "essentially a suburb" It is in fact 47 miles from city center to city center and a populated area in between. I lived in Nashville.
just trying to find out more about Fazekas. what happened post season? cant find out anything so far.
Quote from: Corohan2 on October 31, 2020, 03:43:22 AMjust trying to find out more about Fazekas. what happened post season? cant find out anything so far.
Lottich talked about this on latest episode of Union Street Hoops. Sounds like he moved out east and is looking to get into law enforcement of some kind. I believe that is what Lottich said.
Quote from: Pgmado on October 31, 2020, 04:02:56 PMQuote from: Corohan2 on October 31, 2020, 03:43:22 AMjust trying to find out more about Fazekas. what happened post season? cant find out anything so far.
Lottich talked about this on latest episode of Union Street Hoops. Sounds like he moved out east and is looking to get into law enforcement of some kind. I believe that is what Lottich said.
oh ok thanks I'll check it out. Imagine that 6'8 cop in riot gear!
Beautiful new arena for James Madison. Maybe they're gearing up for a significant move for their athletics program. FBS? (CUSA? Sun Belt? MAC?) A10? AAC?
https://csnbbs.com/thread-910067.html
May Madness: Rick Pitino calls on NCAA to delay basketball season
https://apple.news/AueWLC4jZRmictaH3tEYSzg
Received this email from the NCAA yesterday:
Due to health and safety concerns, the Division I Men's Basketball Committee has decided to relocate the 13 sites previously chosen to host preliminary rounds of the 2021 NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Championship.
Despite the challenges the pandemic continues to present to our country, March Madness will take place in 2021. The environment in which we live is drastically different, which means the tournament will clearly have a different feel to it, but we will safely conduct this event despite the obstacles we are facing. It was determined that the most effective way of doing so is to stage the event in one city, using multiple venues. The NCAA is in preliminary discussions with the state of Indiana and the city of Indianapolis to conduct the entire championship in the metropolitan area. No decision has been made regarding fan attendance at any NCAA tournament game. However, the NCAA committee and staff will remain in communication with nation and local experts from within the medical field to decide the best course of action.
At this time, there are no changes to the field size of 68 or the dates March Madness is typically held. The original key dates include Selection Sunday® on March 14, the tournament start date on March 16 and the National Championship on April 5.
It's not bad when thinking about how it would be if Valpo made the NCAA tournament how you would travel during the pandemic safely to the tournament sites and the NCAA decides to bring the whole tournament to your home town. Of course fan attendance isn't guaranteed and playing it in and around Indy is not a given yet.
For more info on this years (2020-21) NCAA Div. I Men's Basketball Tournament look at this website
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2020-11-16/ncaa-relocating-2021-division-i-mens-basketball-championship-sites?utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MBB_20201116_March%20Madness%20Relocation_Public
"My committee colleagues and I did not come lightly to the difficult decision to relocate the preliminary rounds of the 2021 tournament, as we understand the disappointment 13 communities will feel to miss out on being part of March Madness next year," said Mitch Barnhart, chair of the Division I Men's Basketball Committee and University of Kentucky athletics director. "With the University of Kentucky slated to host first- and second-round games in March, this is something that directly impacts our school and community, so we certainly share in their regret. The committee and staff deeply appreciate the efforts of all the host institutions and conferences, and we look forward to bringing the tournament back to the impacted sites in future years."
The committee emphasized the importance of conducting the championship in a manageable geographic area that limits travel and provides a safe and controlled environment with competition and practice venues, medical resources and lodging for teams and officials all within proximity of one another.
"We have learned so much from monitoring other successful sporting events in the last several months, and it became clear it's not feasible to manage this complex championship in so many different states with the challenges presented by the pandemic," said Dan Gavitt, NCAA Senior Vice President of Basketball. "However, we are developing a solid plan to present a safe, responsible and fantastic March Madness tournament unlike any other we've experienced."
"The committee and staff have thoughtfully monitored the pandemic to develop potential contingency plans," said Mark Emmert, NCAA President. "The Board of Governors and my top priorities are to protect the health and well-being of college athletes while also maintaining their opportunity to compete at the highest level. These principles have guided the decision-making process as we continue to assess how to have a fair and safe championship experience."
Here are the sites I can think of around Indy:
Hinkle Fieldhouse at Butler
Bankers Life Fieldhouse in downtown Indy
Indiana Farmers Coliseum at the State Fairgrounds (IUPUI)
Lucas Oil Stadium in downtown Indy
If fan attendance is not an issue than many more could be added:
Skillman Court at Nicoson Hall (UIndy Greyhounds)
Southport High School and other Indy high schools
IUPUI Gym (on campus next to the Natatorium)
Incrediplex (off of Pendleton Pike on northeast side) https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8655492,-85.9727033,3a,15y,270h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snpCpwZpo9EWxga8AeDJ76w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Physical Education Center (Marian University Knights/on campus)
I really doubt the NCAA will want to play NCAA tournament games on 84 foot high school courts, but I may be wrong.
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 17, 2020, 09:00:21 PM
I really doubt the NCAA will want to play NCAA tournament games on 84 foot high school courts, but I may be wrong.
As I said "if fan attendance is not an issue." They won't need that much seating, much like the way the NBA played their games at Disney in the Orlando Area. The NCAA can redraw the court lines or bring another floor to put over the existing court and move the baskets around. Without need for seating the bleachers will not need to be pulled out and there will be more room for the longer NCAA courts.
If seating is an issue then the NCAA would probably have to bus some teams to West Lafayette (Purdue), Bloomington (IU), Muncie (Ball State), Terre Haute (Indiana St), possibly New Castle High School, possibly the Joyce Center (Notre Dame) etc.
Pretty significant realignment news...
https://twitter.com/KendallRogers/status/1328417201167233026?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1328417201167233026%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-910801-page-2.html
Confirmed by no less than Jeff Goodman so this is probably pretty credible even likely to happen...
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1328431532437073921
The OVC has been a very stable conference, so it is surprising to see 2 schools leaving. Maybe that benefits the MVC with Murray State and Belmont?
:lol:
https://twitter.com/haslametrics/status/1331650202353197062?s=21
I thought King Kampe had finally learned his lesson on scheduling but I guess not, I think he is one of the most over rated mid-major coaches around, The only thing about him that is not over rated is his ego. Sure, he had a few "good" years but so do most other coaches. I know that alot of Valpo people think he is something special but I think the facts sure don't show it in the long run. He has always admired the VU program and has said a number of times that he would like to have a program like ours. But the fact is he has never come close. "Long live the King"!
Drake is going to pull the upset on Kansas State. I didn't watch the full game, but I can watch it later. The final score will be Drake 80-70. Drake will next play South Dakota at Manhattan on Friday.
Quote from: valporun on November 25, 2020, 03:05:04 PM
Drake is going to pull the upset on Kansas State. I didn't watch the full game, but I can watch it later. The final score will be Drake 80-70. Drake will next play South Dakota at Manhattan on Friday.
Bradley over Toledo 61-59. They play Xavier tomorrow- then Oakland. Illinois St lost big to Ohio St.
Word is that a massive shift is occurring out west in the low major\mid major\FCS football world that is unlikely to affect the MVC but it will likely make the WAC a stronger conference and possibly cause more dominos to move: Former conference foe Southern Utah (to this day it still feels weird to type that sentence but such was life back in the 90s-2000s for us) has an invite to the WAC and rumor has it that four schools in Texas will be bolting the Southland for the WAC. They are: Abeline Christian Sam Houston State Stephen F Austin and Lamar. Some speculation that another school could be added (possibly from D2) and that Chicago State will be leaving the conference with the Horizon OVC and MEAC mentioned as possibilities according to the message board speculation. With Central Arkansas also rumored to be leaving for the A-Sun, I wonder what the Southland will do to build back up after this massive exodus. My guess is they will talk to D2 schools and see if they can convince them to move up.
Why in the world would SUU move from the Big Sky to the WAC? The Big Sky was their dream conference for many reasons
Quote from: valpotx on December 09, 2020, 02:09:44 AM
Why in the world would SUU move from the Big Sky to the WAC? The Big Sky was their dream conference for many reasons
I don't know if you remember or you might have even participated in a trip to Cedar City, Utah. You had to fly to Las Vegas and then take a 3 hour bus ride through a canyon to Cedar City. On one of IUPUI's trips to Cedar City their bus actually caught on fire because the driver of the bus caught the brakes on fire by riding the brakes. Ron Hunter told the story on one of Indy's sports radio stations. For those who know Indy radio stations it's the one with JB. Hunter said the fire department was called but took over an hour to get there because they were in this canyon and the highway winds around and the speed limit goes down to 25 mph in some spots. The IUPUI bus actually shut down the highway for 2 to 3 hours and this is the only way from Cedar City to Las Vegas. Ron Hunter loved telling this story on the radio and if you know Ron Hunter you know he loved to get animated.
Anyway the road trips from Cedar City, Utah are difficult no matter where they are traveling to for a game. So I don't believe travel is a consideration for Southern Utah when choosing a conference. I'm not sure why SUU wants the WAC but it was most likely for their football team.
Quote from: bbtds on December 09, 2020, 04:01:36 AM
Quote from: valpotx on December 09, 2020, 02:09:44 AM
Why in the world would SUU move from the Big Sky to the WAC? The Big Sky was their dream conference for many reasons
I don't know if you remember or you might have even participated in a trip to Cedar City, Utah. You had to fly to Las Vegas and then take a 3 hour bus ride through a canyon to Cedar City. On one of IUPUI's trips to Cedar City their bus actually caught on fire because the driver of the bus caught the brakes on fire by riding the brakes. Ron Hunter told the story on one of Indy's sports radio stations. For those who know Indy radio stations it's the one with JB. Hunter said the fire department was called but took over an hour to get there because they were in this canyon and the highway winds around and the speed limit goes down to 25 mph in some spots. The IUPUI bus actually shut down the highway for 2 to 3 hours and this is the only way from Cedar City to Las Vegas. Ron Hunter loved telling this story on the radio and if you know Ron Hunter you know he loved to get animated.
Anyway the road trips from Cedar City, Utah are difficult no matter where they are traveling to for a game. So I don't believe travel is a consideration for Southern Utah when choosing a conference. I'm not sure why SUU wants the WAC but it was most likely for their football team.
Oh yes, regardless of sport, SUU was always a tough win on the road, because of what you mention. Most teams stayed in Las Vegas, and bused in on gameday.
I like what this does for WAC basketball. The other programs are no great shakes (Abeline Christian certainly has some potential) but SFA is a fantastic get which should make NMSU very happy. Now if CBU can keep ascending and GCU can get its act together that's the makings of a strong top of the conference that could be comparable with any other league's top 4. I understand that football drives the bus but this is a good forward thinking move by all the schools involved but SFA in particular.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 11, 2020, 03:23:32 PMI understand that football drives the bus
As long as the bus brakes don't catch fire in the Virgin River Canyon football should be just fine. :-)
https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1346181580348399618
They gone.
So football is going to the AAC
The only question is where they are parking their Olympic sports. WAC? Big West? Big Sky? WCC?
Either way this is a blow to Mountain West basketball. They could backfill with New Mexico State and pretty much not skip a beat.
But I have to wonder if perhaps this isn't the only move the AAC will be making. If Boise State is gone I could see other desirable MWC schools reaching out to the AAC (San Diego State and Air Force come to mind).
We'd better hope that the unlikely possibility of the AAC creating a western pod of schools because if it's only Boise (FB only) then the AAC will likely take an A10 team on the basketball side (VCU Dayton SLU) and if the A10 loses a school Loyola could be a prime candidate to get called up to replace the departed school.
If the MVC loses Loyola would Murray State still be interested? It would be very disappointing that it would take losing Loyola to get them in because all that is is a one for one. We wouldn't gain or lose in that scenario. Just tread water.
If we had invested in ARC renovations maybe we'd get to host a tournament game or two...
https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1346123501057544192?s=21
Quote from: VU2014 on January 05, 2021, 09:26:50 AM
If we had invested in ARC renovations maybe we'd get to host a tournament game or two...
https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1346123501057544192?s=21
I would guess that the facilities at Notre Dame, Indiana State and the Allen County Coliseum in Fort Wayne would be used well before the ARC would be used by the NCAA even if Valpo had made improvements to the ARC.
Don't forget Evansville's Ford Center as well...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 06, 2021, 01:36:22 AM
Don't forget Evansville's Ford Center as well...
Yes, from my house I can get down to the Ford Center on newly finished I-69, at least from south of Martinsville, through Bloomington, down to Eville in 2 1/4 hours. It's still the old highway 37 with a few stoplights from I-465 in south Indy to south of Martinsville, 19 miles. It would be closer from NCAA headquarters in downtown Indy to the Ford Center in Eville than downtown Indy to the ARC in Valpo.
Quote from: bbtds on January 05, 2021, 08:59:07 PMI would guess that the facilities at Notre Dame, Indiana State and the Allen County Coliseum in Fort Wayne would be used well before the ARC would be used by the NCAA even if Valpo had made improvements to the ARC.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 06, 2021, 01:36:22 AMDon't forget Evansville's Ford Center as well...
I know that Allen County and the Memorial Coliseum are hosting the DIII tournament and I believe that the Ford Center is hosting the DII tournament.
WAC FCS league to be announced soon possible plans to possibly go FBS within the next decade.
https://kslsports.com/450237/report-wac-plans-to-announce-fcs-league-including-southern-utah-dixie-state/
Sounds like Chicago State might be leaving as well. Sad for them if true but probably the right decision.
https://twitter.com/AshlyElamSports/status/1346862340822720519
Speculation on EKU's board that the A-Sun expansion (EKU Jacksonville State and Central Arkansas) will be announced sometime this month. I wonder what that does for Murray State and Belmont if the they (and the MVC) have more mutual appetite to make a move.
I just don't get why Lamar, SFA, and Sam Houston State would make this move. I guess that they feel that the Southland is now diluted, or they feel that the WAC has more FBS potential eventually. I understand ACU and Tarleton (Farmerville) State.
I miss the Drew Family
https://twitter.com/gcu_mbb/status/1348109562755375105?s=21
Same, and I also miss not being mediocre
Chicago State will leave the WAC in July 2022. No talk of dropping out of D1. Maybe they'll join the MEAC?
https://www.gocsucougars.com/news/2021/1/14/general-chicago-state-university-announces-plan-to-leave-western-athletic-conference-in-june-2022.aspx
UT-Rio Grande Valley adding football (FCS) by 2023 or 2024
https://www.texasfootball.com/article/2021/01/14/utrgv-commits-to-add-fcs-football-by-2024?ref=article_preview_img
Growing speculation that a western expansion of the AAC might be imminent involving Boise State San Diego State and one other team (Army? Air Force? BYU?) No telling how this impact basketball at the mid major level. Some talk that the Mountain West is prepared to lose 3 teams so Air Force could be the team. Though one source says it might be Army.
Central Arkansas to Atlantic Sun... This must mean that Jacksonville State and Eastern Kentucky will probably announce soon as well...
MVC, it's time to take the temperature on Belmont and Murray State once this is announced.
I really hope that Belmont and Murray State happens this time. With the HL going to 12 teams, and more moves to be had in the future, it would help to stabilize the MVC.
Quote from: valpotx on January 15, 2021, 02:36:27 AMI really hope that Belmont and Murray State happens this time. With the HL going to 12 teams, and more moves to be had in the future, it would help to stabilize the MVC.
Not to mention make it a much better conference than it already is. I get the sense (from their fanbase) Murray State is still interested especially if the Racers football team can have a football home in the MVFC. I wonder if Belmont has reconsidered now that Byrd isn't running the show anymore. I've heard rumors that they're really looking to grow and expand their brand and influence. The MVC can help with that and they can help the MVC by being the same strong program they've always been. With the right schools I'd be down with going beyond 12 but for right now I'd be content just to have Belmont and Murray State. Teams on my radar are:
South Dakota State (Perennial top 100 program with solid top 50 potential as they have shown Would be a terrific add
North Dakota State (companion add The Jackrabbits are really the prize here but there is some potential)
Wright State (Would need to improve their financial situation first and get a little better as a program)
Northern Kentucky (needs to grow a bit more and get better)
UIC (only if we lose Loyola and they need to keep growing but I like the progress they are making)
Then a big gap before anyone else (No A-10 team is going to leave that conference for the MVC so I did not include Dayton or SLU)
It's behind a paywall and I'm still waiting for officially official confirmation but it sounds like the Eastern Kentucky Jacksonville State and Central Arkansas move to the ASUN is pretty much done. Word is that other schools might be involved but not sure which ones. Names speculated are: Chattanooga East Tennessee State Western Carolina Austin Peay Tennessee Tech Tennessee State and West Florida (D2). Also continued rumors of North Florida starting football but nothing substantiated yet there. My take is that any of the OVC schools could move but I have trouble seeing any school leaving the SOCON with how good it has been in basketball. Even with these additions the A-Sun move would be a huge step down from the SOCON in that sport but it would be a step up for any OVC team who might join up.
https://www.timesdaily.com/sports/una_sports/asun-expansion-central-arkansas-jacksonville-state-and-eastern-kentucky-to-join/article_0c91cb1d-7a7c-5047-a1a9-2459bed4a3e0.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share
Last night's Kansas-Baylor game had one of the wildest "Bad Beats" you'll ever see.
https://thecomeback.com/ncaa/baylors-win-over-kansas-featured-a-brutal-bad-beat-at-the-buzzer.html
In fact, the video clip doesn't do justice to everything that happened in the last minute for Kansas to beat the spread. I also recommend focusing on the guy with the white hat in the bottom right corner of the screen.
Quote from: vu84v2 on January 19, 2021, 04:29:34 PMLast night's Kansas-Baylor game had one of the wildest "Bad Beats" you'll ever see. https://thecomeback.com/ncaa/baylors-win-over-kansas-featured-a-brutal-bad-beat-at-the-buzzer.html In fact, the video clip doesn't do justice to everything that happened in the last minute for Kansas to beat the spread. I also recommend focusing on the guy with the white hat in the bottom right corner of the screen.
Oof That's brutal So sorry for anyone who had that bet
This is just stupid. Why would the Atlantic Sun let ineligible teams play in their conference tournament?
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31013314/liberty-flames-make-ncaa-tournament-even-playing-atlantic-sun-finale
That is strange! The ASun also has EKU, Jacksonville St. and Central Arkansas logo's plastered all over their web site as if they are part of the ASun Conference already. I believe the 3 become official members of the ASun July 1 2021.
https://asunsports.org/landing/index
Are you f'ing kidding me with this shiot? Yeah, college sports isn't about money to the schools...
https://sports.yahoo.com/michigan-state-basketball-team-msu-spartans-presented-by-rocket-mortgage-223057968.html
That's even more of a reason Valpo should change their mascot to the Kernels. Pick up a new sponsor, get a new arena and call ourselves The Valparaiso University Orville Redenbacher's Golden Kernels. :thumbsup:
https://twitter.com/baldbully/status/1370901399194591233?s=21
Neat story for the kid, tied to the Bryce name, but also that he was a former Student Manager/Marketing Intern, before making the team last year. Not much playing time, but a neat story.
Belmont getting snubbed after winning 26 games and going 18-2 in the ovc. Does this at least get them to ask the question....."better conference?"
It's not a snub at all. It's an undeserving team that didn't get in. They played 0 Quad 1 games, 1 Quad 2 game (and lost). That's not a resume.
Any bottom four valley team would be in contention for OVC championship any given year.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 15, 2021, 10:49:21 AM
Belmont getting snubbed after winning 26 games and going 18-2 in the ovc. Does this at least get them to ask the question....."better conference?"
It is a snub that they didn't get to go to the NIT. I'm pretty sure that in the past, regular season conference champs who lost in their conference tournament got an NIT bid. However, this year there are only 16 NIT teams, not 32, so that consideration got thrown out the window.
Getting an at-large NCAA bid is tough for any mid-major.
Quote from: NotBryceDrew on March 15, 2021, 11:28:08 AM
It's not a snub at all. It's an undeserving team that didn't get in. They played 0 Quad 1 games, 1 Quad 2 game (and lost). That's not a resume.
Any bottom four valley team would be in contention for OVC championship any given year.
I agree and disagree here. While SOS is important, a question (at least for this season) is "who did Belmont try to schedule?" If they were calling Power 6 teams that were close to them and noone agreed to play them, then Belmont had no chance unless it won its conference tournament.
Nevertheless it's telling that they didn't even get an NIT bid (even though they would have in any normal year). As someone on the Murray State board said "It shows what the Powers that Be think of the OVC." I wonder if that and recent realignment events that are going to take much of the support Belmont and Murray State had in the conference away is going to influence them to consider their options again. Remember: it's very possible that Austin Peay will be leaving soon as well possibly Tennessee State and Western Illinois could be (and would be) a logical add. With the balance of membership in the OVC shifting to the west as it would appear does Belmont still want to remain in that league when they have a chance to step up and secure their scheduling now and in the future? It's very possible that they might be more receptive this time around and thanks to being a multibid league without their help this time we don't have to come hat in hand and looking desperate.
Demonstrating multiple bids in all sports this season, has to show Belmont that they need to take a hard look at the MVC this offseason. Similar to our wakeup call when a crappy Syracuse team go in over Alec's JR year team, this is a defining moment for Belmont going forward.
I heard a rumor that DePaul wants Moser. Not saying he's leaving, but moving within town for double the money may be appealing. We will have to see what happens once Loyola is out.
Quote from: bb33 on March 16, 2021, 08:21:34 AM
I heard a rumor that DePaul wants Moser. Not saying he's leaving, but moving within town for double the money may be appealing. We will have to see what happens once Loyola is out.
From a monetary standpoint it is probably good for him either way. If the enticement is too big to ignore he will get the big payday at DePaul and if Loyola wants to keep him they will have to pony up. He is most likely going to be earning more no matter what happens.
I don't think Porter leaves Loyola anymore. De Paul AD has too close of a connection to Kenny Payne from Kentucky Days. I think Kenny Payne is top of list. Not sure if they can pay him or he leaves the Knicks though.
Should Minnesota be looking at Bryce? Could bring in Jared Nuness for an assistant.
Interesting idea. Do you trade sun tan lotion for snowshoes?
I do hope he gets a Power Five offer again. But I can't imagine he ditches the Lopes that fast. It's a really fun energetic new campus even if the new business model is a bit sketchy. Very unique as it is all pretty much built since 2010.
Quote from: bb33 on March 16, 2021, 08:21:34 AM
I heard a rumor that DePaul wants Moser. Not saying he's leaving, but moving within town for double the money may be appealing. We will have to see what happens once Loyola is out.
I'm not as enamored with Moser as most people seem to be. Giving him his due, he's had 2 NCAA appearances in the past 4 seasons, including an incredible final 4 Cinderella story. In contrast he had only 3 winning records in his previous 10 seasons. So, the question becomes how did he suddenly go from years of mediocrity to excellence? Did he have an epiphany, or did he find lightening in a bottle with Cameron Krutwig? Time will tell.
BTW, some MVC fans have tried to make a similar case about Valpo having caught lightening in a bottle with Alec Peters, citing that we've been bad ever since he graduated. It's going to be up to Matt and crew to prove them wrong. Not to call anyone out, but I recall a few on this board agreeing with them.
Out of the 68 NCAAT coaches. Scott is the second worse as a player. And Bryce is the third best only behind J. Howard and Patrick Ewing.
67. Scott Drew, Baylor Bears -- Drew's playing days ended with the JV team at Valparaiso (Indiana) High School. Though his brother, Bryce (also coaching in this tournament), played in the NBA, Scott Drew was a tennis player (he played on the team but didn't letter) and basketball manager at Butler.
Quote from: wh on March 16, 2021, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: bb33 on March 16, 2021, 08:21:34 AM
I heard a rumor that DePaul wants Moser. Not saying he's leaving, but moving within town for double the money may be appealing. We will have to see what happens once Loyola is out.
I'm not as enamored with Moser as most people seem to be. Giving him his due, he's had 2 NCAA appearances in the past 4 seasons, including an incredible final 4 Cinderella story. In contrast he had only 3 winning records in his previous 10 seasons. So, the question becomes how did he suddenly go from years of mediocrity to excellence? Did he have an epiphany, or did he find lightening in a bottle with Cameron Krutwig? Time will tell.
BTW, some MVC fans have tried to make a similar case about Valpo having caught lightening in a bottle with Alec Peters, citing that we've been bad ever since he graduated. It's going to be up to Matt and crew to prove them wrong. Not to call anyone out, but I recall a few on this board agreeing with them.
If Moser is going to make a move, this season is the one to do it. He loses Krutwig, who is a beast of an all-around player. There is no certainty going forward, and he probably saw the potential in Krutwig to carry the flag after the last run. Who carries it for them going forward? No slam dunks.
Technically, we caught lightning in a bottle back-to-back with Rowdy and AP. You can't argue with 5 regular season championships, over a 6 year period. For those in the MVC that are making this argument, I get it. However, we have a history of sustained success over the last 25 seasons, that is hard to match. We have 3-4 losing seasons during that time period?
It's not set in stone that Krutwig and Williamson are leaving is it? I mean they COULD come back if they wanted to. And if they did Loyola would be loaded again. Moreover, Porter is at a financially loaded school that can pay him whatever he wants where he is beloved and revered. Why give that up? I'm not sold that he's going to leave and I'm not sold that Loyola is some flash in the pan. They've committed to succeeding in basketball and I think they are here to stay. I really hope Matt can prove everyone (including me) wrong and that we can compete in this league on a consistent basis and reach the heights in the MVC other programs have reached. I think we can do it if this class is as good as advertised but it's getting to the point where for the sake of the program Matt has to get it right here. I think the next year or two are beyond critical to define who we are and who we will be in the MVC and I hope we are able to be consistently competitive. We don't have to win the league every year but we need to be in the conversation much more often than we're not for me anyway.
Quote from: valpotx on March 17, 2021, 02:26:55 AM
Quote from: wh on March 16, 2021, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: bb33 on March 16, 2021, 08:21:34 AM
I heard a rumor that DePaul wants Moser. Not saying he's leaving, but moving within town for double the money may be appealing. We will have to see what happens once Loyola is out.
I'm not as enamored with Moser as most people seem to be. Giving him his due, he's had 2 NCAA appearances in the past 4 seasons, including an incredible final 4 Cinderella story. In contrast he had only 3 winning records in his previous 10 seasons. So, the question becomes how did he suddenly go from years of mediocrity to excellence? Did he have an epiphany, or did he find lightening in a bottle with Cameron Krutwig? Time will tell.
BTW, some MVC fans have tried to make a similar case about Valpo having caught lightening in a bottle with Alec Peters, citing that we've been bad ever since he graduated. It's going to be up to Matt and crew to prove them wrong. Not to call anyone out, but I recall a few on this board agreeing with them.
If Moser is going to make a move, this season is the one to do it. He loses Krutwig, who is a beast of an all-around player. There is no certainty going forward, and he probably saw the potential in Krutwig to carry the flag after the last run. Who carries it for them going forward? No slam dunks.
Technically, we caught lightning in a bottle back-to-back with Rowdy and AP. You can't argue with 5 regular season championships, over a 6 year period. For those in the MVC that are making this argument, I get it. However, we have a history of sustained success over the last 25 seasons, that is hard to match. We have 3-4 losing seasons during that time period?
One could point to a lot of teams that had unexpected success because of getting the right personnel. Think back to the team from Indianapolis. They got Matt Howard, then two guys who play in the NBA. Not hard to get to a Final Four with that talent. However, since joining the Big East 10 years ago they haven't had one championship and finished 10th out of 11 this year. Coaching is certainly part of it but talent is talent.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 17, 2021, 03:59:02 AM
It's not set in stone that Krutwig and Williamson are leaving is it? I mean they COULD come back if they wanted to. And if they did Loyola would be loaded again. Moreover, Porter is at a financially loaded school that can pay him whatever he wants where he is beloved and revered. Why give that up? I'm not sold that he's going to leave and I'm not sold that Loyola is some flash in the pan. They've committed to succeeding in basketball and I think they are here to stay. I really hope Matt can prove everyone (including me) wrong and that we can compete in this league on a consistent basis and reach the heights in the MVC other programs have reached. I think we can do it if this class is as good as advertised but it's getting to the point where for the sake of the program Matt has to get it right here. I think the next year or two are beyond critical to define who we are and who we will be in the MVC and I hope we are able to be consistently competitive. We don't have to win the league every year but we need to be in the conversation much more often than we're not for me anyway.
While Loyola's endowment is pretty strong, I would not jump to the conclusion that they are financially loaded. Prior to the pandemic, they were looking to make cuts just like many other universities (especially private ones). Then with the pandemic, they were having to deal with major budget shortfalls (I think I saw $50M as their shortfall in a previous article). Thus, coupled with no serious TV revenue for the MVC, I don't see Loyola being able to offer Power 5+1 money to Moser...but I do see other schools offering Moser that type of money. I would avoid going to DePaul regardless of the money.
Quote from: vu72 on March 17, 2021, 08:08:49 AM
One could point to a lot of teams that had unexpected success because of getting the right personnel. Think back to the team from Indianapolis. They got Matt Howard, then two guys who play in the NBA. Not hard to get to a Final Four with that talent. However, since joining the Big East 10 years ago they haven't had one championship and finished 10th out of 11 this year. Coaching is certainly part of it but talent is talent.
You aren't wrong about personnel making the difference, but comparing championships in the Horizon League to the Big East is nowhere near an apples to apples comparison. Heck, comparing them from the Horizon League to the MVC isn't even apples to apples.
Yes, this was a bad year for Butler, but if 8-12 in a down year for the Big East which is still rated the 4th best league in college basketball considering all the injuries and youth on the team is the worst it gets, I'll take it. They've also finished 2nd twice in 8 years, made the tournament 4 times (and would have last year if there was one) and made the Sweet Sixteen, which yeah is a long way from the Final 4, but it's not bad considering Butler financially the smallest fish in their current pond. Plus when you're in a conference with Villanova, not winning the conference championship isn't exactly awful.
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 17, 2021, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 17, 2021, 08:08:49 AM
One could point to a lot of teams that had unexpected success because of getting the right personnel. Think back to the team from Indianapolis. They got Matt Howard, then two guys who play in the NBA. Not hard to get to a Final Four with that talent. However, since joining the Big East 10 years ago they haven't had one championship and finished 10th out of 11 this year. Coaching is certainly part of it but talent is talent.
You aren't wrong about personnel making the difference, but comparing championships in the Horizon League to the Big East is nowhere near an apples to apples comparison. Heck, comparing them from the Horizon League to the MVC isn't even apples to apples.
Yes, this was a bad year for Butler, but if 8-12 in a down year for the Big East which is still rated the 4th best league in college basketball considering all the injuries and youth on the team is the worst it gets, I'll take it. They've also finished 2nd twice in 8 years, made the tournament 4 times (and would have last year if there was one) and made the Sweet Sixteen, which yeah is a long way from the Final 4, but it's not bad considering Butler financially the smallest fish in their current pond. Plus when you're in a conference with Villanova, not winning the conference championship isn't exactly awful.
Two points on Butler's two teams that made the finals
1. Talent may be talent, but the coach is responsible for getting, effectively utilizing, and retaining that talent. Stevens deserves a lot of credit for doing that at a small private university.
2. Don't undervalue the other talent on those two Butler teams that made it to the finals. Howard, Hayward and Mack were great, but they also had other complementary talent that made it all work.
To the other point, Butler has been very impressive in the Big East. While their record was down this season, they also have a lot of young talent.
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 17, 2021, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 17, 2021, 08:08:49 AM
One could point to a lot of teams that had unexpected success because of getting the right personnel. Think back to the team from Indianapolis. They got Matt Howard, then two guys who play in the NBA. Not hard to get to a Final Four with that talent. However, since joining the Big East 10 years ago they haven't had one championship and finished 10th out of 11 this year. Coaching is certainly part of it but talent is talent.
You aren't wrong about personnel making the difference, but comparing championships in the Horizon League to the Big East is nowhere near an apples to apples comparison. Heck, comparing them from the Horizon League to the MVC isn't even apples to apples.
Yes, this was a bad year for Butler, but if 8-12 in a down year for the Big East which is still rated the 4th best league in college basketball considering all the injuries and youth on the team is the worst it gets, I'll take it. They've also finished 2nd twice in 8 years, made the tournament 4 times (and would have last year if there was one) and made the Sweet Sixteen, which yeah is a long way from the Final 4, but it's not bad considering Butler financially the smallest fish in their current pond. Plus when you're in a conference with Villanova, not winning the conference championship isn't exactly awful.
You'll get no argument from me.
I don't think that Minnesota is a valid option for Bryce, as the public schools would crack down on his God-speak. We've had this discussion many times, and I think that he will only be comfortable at private schools. With that being said, I have to believe that the Marquette role would appeal to Bryce greatly.
Quote from: valpotx on March 19, 2021, 03:06:42 PM
I don't think that Minnesota is a valid option for Bryce, as the public schools would crack down on his God-speak. We've had this discussion many times, and I think that he will only be comfortable at private schools. With that being said, I have to believe that the Marquette role would appeal to Bryce greatly.
I see Moser as a much more likely candidate for Marquette than Bryce. I am also not so sure that Marquette would welcome Bryce's brand of god-speak.
That's 2 wins for the MVC! Again, someone tell me why we want to be in a one bid conference that usually is just happy to participate...
Quote from: valpotx on March 19, 2021, 05:15:42 PM
That's 2 wins for the MVC! Again, someone tell me why we want to be in a one bid conference that usually is just happy to participate...
While I don't disagree with your point, one of Valpo's former conferences also had a win (the Summit, formerly the Mid-Continent). Heck, Cleveland State has a chance to win as well.
While I certainly HATED ORU when we were in the MidCon/Summit, I loved watching them take down THE Ohio State University this afternoon. I feel sooooo sorry for those B1G whinners.... NOT
We better hope that not too many mid-major upsets happen in this tourney. It will expose the truth that P5 programs mainly win because they buy home games in front of their fans. It could make the P5 form that separate postseason tournament that has been rumored for years.
F ORU :)
Quote from: FWalum on March 19, 2021, 05:30:59 PM
While I certainly HATED ORU when we were in the MidCon/Summit, I loved watching them take down THE Ohio State University this afternoon. I feel sooooo sorry for those B1G whinners.... NOT
I only caught the end but was it only 6 TO's for ORU? If you can hit shots and control the ball you always have a chance.
So Purdue and Ohio State goes down. So much for the BIG. Any chance Newman or Stefanovic see the light and want to play for Dear Old Valpo? The team's been turned over to freshman Ivey.
Quote from: vu72 on March 19, 2021, 08:57:50 PM
So Purdue and Ohio State goes down. So much for the BIG. Any chance Newman or Stefanovic see the light and want to play for Dear Old Valpo? The team's been turned over to freshman Ivey.
I was really wondering the same thing watching Stefanovic sit most of the second half. Next year there is a good chance that he will not see the minutes he is use to playing.
MVC 2-0.
When has that ever happened.
A) Moser shouldn't and won't go to DePaul. If he wants to leave he could do a lot better and Marquette just opened up. If he leaves, I see it happening this year.
B) Bryce will get another chance of coaching a major team sometime if he wants. Now that he has made even more money, he can be more selective of his next landing spot.
C) did I say the MVC is 2-0? Not only did we put two teams in, but we have more wins than the Big10 right now. No need to go out and rush adding another team or two. MVC has now confirmed its a 2 bid league and with success. Personally I don't want to add another team unless it makes us a 3 bid league. While Murray State and potentially Belmont was attractive at one point in time, they are not enough to push us to a 3 bid league but are good enough to beat drake or Loyola and prevent a 2 bid league. There was a window and it closed. Hard pass right now.
D) the mvc is 2-0 again. A minimum of 4 units. In one year. That would have taken 4 years in the horizon league.
Quote from: vu72 on March 19, 2021, 08:57:50 PMSo Purdue and Ohio State goes down
In common The and Purdue were knocked out by former Scott Drew assistants. Paul Mills, Oral Roberts coach and Grant McCasland at North Texas both came off his Baylor staff.
Big 10 teams are dropping like flies, while the Conference of champions is undefeated! Hopefully SC can keep playing well after destroying Drake.
While not a fan of the Big Ten I would like to see Rutgers bump Houston.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 21, 2021, 05:51:13 PMBig 10 teams are dropping like flies,
I hate when Kelvin Sampson teams win, >:( but I love when Big Ten teams lose. :thumbsup:
Just three left after 9 bids... Michigan Iowa and Maryland...
Never had much love for ORU but I do love when mids beat P-5 schools in the dance. Good on ya ORU! Well done 👏
Even though I was a fan as a kid during the Mid-Con era and remember the ORU rivalry we haven't played them in so long that I realized that the rivalry is kinda dead for me and I don't feel the same as I did when I was younger about them. I'm pretty happy for them as I love watching mids crash the party. Their matchup with Arkansas next week is going to be interesting.
Not me. F ORU :)
How are the Conference of Champion teams doing so far?
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 22, 2021, 06:38:00 AM
How are the Conference of Champion teams doing so far?
For tonight, we have usc4valpo's graduate alma mater against my graduate alma mater. Much as I hate to say it, usc4valpo should feel very confident.
We will see my friend. SC can be very flaky although they have decent athletes.
One of the problems with a tournament full of upsets is that you end up with later rounds of teams playing who pulled those upsets....which is not necessarily what many people want to see.
Disagree JD24 - watching Loyola and different teams are good. Watching Abilene Christian with a 5-6 guard and a 6-5 264 pound fat dude is a breath of fresh air.
Also, seeing Pac12 teams finally getting respect is good.
Pac12 teams shouldn't be worrying about any respect if they are supposed to be from any conference of champions.
Most people want to see upsets but would almost prefer that the team advancing was not the team who pulled the upsets as odd as that sounds. An Oral Roberts/ACU final four as a for example would be very poorly watched. Even by the time Butler got to the Championship game they had enough of a runup that it was less of an upset than we see with some of these teams. Loyola was probably underseeded as has been stated on this board.
JD24 - this board tends to be biased toward Big 10 teams and justifiably so. Recently the Conference of champions has been weak in major revenue sports, but over history they have had great success. The Rose Bowl record is a great indicator.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 22, 2021, 11:53:20 AM
JD24 - this board tends to be biased toward Big 10 teams and justifiably so. Recently the Conference of champions has been weak in major revenue sports, but over history they have had great success. The Rose Bowl record is a great indicator.
I hate the Big 10 and Pac-12, does that help? ;) Growing up in Texas, you learn to dislike just about all things tied to California ;D. I also got sick of hearing about Ohio State and Michigan from all of the people from those states, while at Valpo, so I dislike that conference, as well.
I took the Illinois loss hard. I love AYO. I love that he chose his struggling state school and helped make them champions. That being said, I will be hoping Loyola takes their place all the way to the championship. Both Loyola and Illinois got screwed, the two teams I really wanted to win. Loyola should have been a 5 seed, and Illinois had to to play a 5 seed (despite the committee assignment) in the second round.
And of course this board is Big Ten biased. Most of us are connected to the midwest -- and cheering for the Big Ten may (and usually does) still include rooting against Ohio State and Michigan.
Go Buckeyes! ;D
I think the Pac12 deserves some respect. Duckzilla destroyed Iowa.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 22, 2021, 03:26:27 PM
I think the Pac12 deserves some respect. Duckzilla destroyed Iowa.
Respect this :-X
Kansas was brutal last night. No other way to say it.
USC looked great last night. Kansas didn't have the talent that they have had in prior years, Wilson did not look ready after recovering from COVID, and the team played poorly. Not much more needs to be said.
Congrats to the Conference of Champions on a great tournament so far. Oregon-USC should be fun to watch.
Forever the Conference of Close-to-First :)
Too bad Bill Walton isn't doing the games...
https://thespun.com/pac-12/everyone-loves-bill-walton-pac-12-ncaa-tournament-prediction
Sure, a formerly good Announcer from a formerly good conference. It will be just like old times! ;)
Formerly good? Walton is the best!
Tennessee Martin whose coach passed away right before the season started originally had 19 on their roster. They currently have 15 in the transfer portal.
I was wondering if this would come up. Cancel ORU!!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-oral-roberts-university-basketball-135007065.html
I remember when first visiting ORU for the Mid-Con Baseball tournament in 2001, that their players had mentioned that they were not allowed to wear jeans to classes, and interracial dating had only recently become 'somewhat acceptable.' Don't get them started on public displays of affection or hand-holding, as well.
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2021, 02:31:14 PM
I was wondering if this would come up. Cancel ORU!!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-oral-roberts-university-basketball-135007065.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-oral-roberts-university-basketball-135007065.html)
I remember when first visiting ORU for the Mid-Con Baseball tournament in 2001, that their players had mentioned that they were not allowed to wear jeans to classes, and interracial dating had only recently become 'somewhat acceptable.' Don't get them started on public displays of affection or hand-holding, as well.
In South Dakota this week the NCAA threatened the state's university athletics if the governor signed a law banning transgender athletes from competing in women's sports. Another example why cancel culture is a cancer in this country.
Geez, very sad news about this young man on Bryce's GCU team:
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31137735/grand-canyon-antelopes-men-basketball-senior-oscar-frayer-dies-car-accident
Shaka Smart to Marquette!
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/marquette-shaka-smart-reach-agreement-in-principle-for-texas-coach-to-replace-steve-wojciechowski/
Quote from: valpotx on March 26, 2021, 01:02:22 AMGeez, very sad news about this young man on Bryce's GCU team: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31137735/grand-canyon-antelopes-men-basketball-senior-oscar-frayer-dies-car-accident
Just saw this on espn. Tough deal.
Quote from: VALPO LI on March 26, 2021, 11:13:11 AM
Shaka Smart to Marquette!
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/marquette-shaka-smart-reach-agreement-in-principle-for-texas-coach-to-replace-steve-wojciechowski/
Getting out before the demanding Longhorn donors started to call for his head lol.
Quote from: valpotx on March 26, 2021, 01:20:32 PMQuote from: VALPO LI on March 26, 2021, 11:13:11 AMShaka Smart to Marquette! https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/marquette-shaka-smart-reach-agreement-in-principle-for-texas-coach-to-replace-steve-wojciechowski/
Getting out before the demanding Longhorn donors started to call for his head lol.
Good. That makes it more likely Porter stays put. Now will Loyola-Chicago do the same?
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1375493983292510211
Brannen getting investigated at UC (can't imagine he survives).
Fan favorites for the job assuming he's done are Archie Miller and Bryce Drew.
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 26, 2021, 02:33:03 PMhttps://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1375493983292510211 Brannen getting investigated at UC (can't imagine he survives). Fan favorites for the job assuming he's done are Archie Miller and Bryce Drew.
Can't imagine Bryce leaving GCU after one year for a secular institution. Archie would be an interesting fit as he has had success at Dayton before washing out at Indiana. A return to Ohio and a slightly lower conference could really help him rebuild himself and his career.
I will eat my words, if Bryce ever moves to a public institution. You can't talk the way that he wants to talk, at public schools.
I think Bryce will stay in the desert for awhile, because, why not?
Has anyone watched the robbie Hummel interview with Homer and Bryce? They talk about his job at GCU and they were both raving about it. Growing the student population. Have some big time bball people involved. Students and fans tailgate before the games like people in the Midwest do for football. I don't think he's leaving there for awhile. Heck they made me want to go see a game there lol.
USC and Oregon on paper is a fantastic matchup. It's terrible that one of these 2 great Conference of Champions teams will be gone so early in the tournament. both teams obviously deserved better seeds and the committee overlooked the strength of the Conference of Champions .
Even a blind squirrel can find a nut. An apropos comparison to the Conference of Charlatans :)
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 28, 2021, 08:00:26 AMUSC and Oregon on paper is a fantastic matchup. It's terrible that one of these 2 great Conference of Champions teams will be gone so early in the tournament. both teams obviously deserved better seeds and the committee overlooked the strength of the Conference of Champions .
You can't seriously believe Oregon State was in any way underseeded after losing to the Portland Pilots and the Wyoming Cowboys this season can you? I'm starting to get the feeling that you're just doing a masterful Bill Walton impression and these aren't your true feelings. If so, well played sir!
Gregg Doyel
@GreggDoyelStar
IU is hiring former Butler and Ohio State coach Thad Matta as associate AD for men's basketball administration. Matta will assist an IU staff that will be led by new coach Mike Woodson.
I think that's a good hire for IU.
OState should have been at least a 10, UCLA should have been an 8, USC should be a 5 as well as Oregon. Iowa should have never been a 2, nor Ohio State.
btw, Bill Walton is off key, but has one of the highest basketball IQs out there. His play in college and pro was legendary and his passing skills for a center were beautiful to watch.
Oregon St has a 91 NET with losses to Wyoming and 3-15 Portland. They would've had tbe worst profile for a 10-seed in Tournament history by a significant margin. There was no argument for them to be a 10-seed before the Tournament.
And those NET ratings and other computer ranking have a bad formula - PAC 12 teams were obviously not respected based on their high seedings and their performance in this tournament. Too much bias toward the Big 10 and SEC teams. Who knows based on the scheduling if there could have been 4 PAC 12 teams in the elite eight.
Give the conference of championships teams much deserved respect. I am not sure how USC will do against Gonzaga, but at they get an opportunity to make it to the Final 4.
One team East of the Mississippi still in the tournament and that team is from the much feared Western Conference who are ruled by the Champions of the West.
The Pac-10, 12 or whatever still sucks though.
Gonzaga will handle USC from the Conference of Clowns :)
Tx, you said the same with Drake, so I expect all the beautiful LA people to enjoy the lovely Indy weather in the Final Four. Fight on SC and Bill Walton is a prophet!
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 29, 2021, 03:34:21 PM
Tx, you said the same with Drake, so I expect all the beautiful LA people to enjoy the lovely Indy weather in the Final Four. Fight on SC and Bill Walton is a prophet!
Disheveled locust-eating prophet wandering around the desert.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 29, 2021, 03:34:21 PM
Tx, you said the same with Drake, so I expect all the beautiful LA people to enjoy the lovely Indy weather in the Final Four. Fight on SC and Bill Walton is a prophet!
I wish the people of (L)osers.(A)lways. nothing but positivity in their experience in Indy, while watching their Unanimously Sucky Clods get stomp-kicked by Gonzaga. It is the Conference of Chumps, after all :)
That was very sweet.
Southwest Conference tearin' it up.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 28, 2021, 03:44:06 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 28, 2021, 08:00:26 AMUSC and Oregon on paper is a fantastic matchup. It's terrible that one of these 2 great Conference of Champions teams will be gone so early in the tournament. both teams obviously deserved better seeds and the committee overlooked the strength of the Conference of Champions .
You can't seriously believe Oregon State was in any way underseeded after losing to the Portland Pilots and the Wyoming Cowboys this season can you? I'm starting to get the feeling that you're just doing a masterful Bill Walton impression and these aren't your true feelings. If so, well played sir!
Of course he's not blowing a gasket suddenly because one of his favorite conference teams lost a game in the NCAA tournament.
dream of a Texas vs. LA final four.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 30, 2021, 06:11:31 AM
dream of a Texas vs. LA final four.
Do you really want to relive the 2006 Rose Bowl, but in Basketball form? ;)
How about the Cotton Bowl game against Texas tech?
Gonzaga is playing simply exquisite basketball. Such beautiful passing. I hate seeing USC in this situation, but this is great stuff.
Michigan's offense, at least in this game, is reminding me of the Valpo offense when Smits was with them. Way too much time dumping it down to Dickinson and then everyone watching him. He'll make a few but too often it's just nothing. No movement. That ball has to come out of the post much quicker than it is which was the problem with Smits.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 30, 2021, 07:06:42 PM
How about the Cotton Bowl game against Texas tech?
1995? That Texas Tech team was 6-4 going into that game. Beating Tech is the equivalent of beating your friend's little brother that tries hard to fit in, but can't quite get there :)
I needed some consolance after that game last night - wow, what a fantastic performance by the Zags, although it would be great to humble that Timme dude. But Fight On! USC had a great season.
Congrats to Bill Walton and the UCLA Bruins for making the Final 4!
The Final Four match-ups couldn't make it easier for me to know which teams to support. There are two private religious schools facing two public universities. Baylor is Baptist with an undergrad enrollment of 14,000 and Gonzaga is Catholic with only 5,000 undergrads, while Houston and UCLA have undergrad populations of 37,000 and 31,000 respectively. Of course, Gonzaga has Roger Powell on its coaching staff, while Baylor has Scott Drew and Jared Nuness. Plus, if Baylor gets the championship, I win my brackets pool. Go Baylor and Gonzaga...but especially Baylor! :thumbsup:
Gonzaga facing the hottest team in the country right now. They'd better be ready. I'm rooting for them and for Baylor in that order (I have been a Gonzaga fan since I was a kid almost as long as I've been a Valpo fan). If either of them wins then I'll be very happy. I expect Baylor to make the final and I hope we get a Gonzaga vs Baylor final. That would be a terrific game and one I think this season deserves.
UCLA was fortunate in that they are really a (Cronin) Midwest style team with one superstar that got to play another Midwest team (Michigan) with none. For UCLA to have a chance against Gonzaga, they have to keep the game in the low 60's, and I will be shocked if they can do that. As for Baylor v Houston, they are basically the same type of team, only Baylor players are slightly better. I will always pull for the smaller school over the bigger one, so I'm hoping for a Gonzaga v Baylor final.
1314 - you are puzzling me. If UCLA wins over Gonzaga, are you saying that they are not worthy to play in the championship game, or it would not be deserving for viewers? give me a break dude. If UCLA wins, it will be a tremendous upset. They would most certainly be deserving, and they are a great story.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 01, 2021, 06:09:31 AM
1314 - you are puzzling me. If UCLA wins over Gonzaga, are you saying that they are not worthy to play in the championship game, or it would not be deserving for viewers? give me a break dude. If UCLA wins, it will be a tremendous upset. They would most certainly be deserving, and they are a great story.
Ein Wagner-Drei hätte die UCLA aus dem Turnier werfen können.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 01, 2021, 06:09:31 AM
1314 - you are puzzling me. If UCLA wins over Gonzaga, are you saying that they are not worthy to play in the championship game, or it would not be deserving for viewers? give me a break dude. If UCLA wins, it will be a tremendous upset. They would most certainly be deserving, and they are a great story.
Whoever beats Gonzaga will be deserving of whatever opportunity comes next, and with UCLA only being given a 10-15% chance of victory by the predictive metrics, it would be an incredible upset. As for the great story, if you're in the Final 4 and the media isn't able to extract a "great story" out of you, there must really be something wrong.
Also, I really hope the games are enjoyable to watch. Watching Houston as a casual fan is rough, and shooting in a massive arena like Lucas Oil is really difficult for any team (including Gonzaga). I'm actually really glad I didn't see the UCLA-Michigan game, because unless you have a rooting interest, 51-49 is not a fun watch.
I'm hoping for a Gonzaga-Baylor final and a Zag national title just so we don't have to constantly hear about the 1976 Indiana team having been the last team to do it. It's been long enough.
Word is that Roy Williams is retiring as coach at North Carolina, considered by many to be the best coaching position in college basketball. The coaching transfer portal becomes a bit more interesting.
I am rooting for UCLA and Baylor. Timme is a dork, but great.
Quote from: bbtds on April 01, 2021, 06:15:48 AMEin Wagner-Drei hätte die UCLA aus dem Turnier werfen können.
Warum schreibst du ihm auf Deutsch? Seltsam....
Dank Google Translator kann jeder in jeder Sprache schreiben.
Quote from: FWalum on April 01, 2021, 06:24:00 PM
Quote from: bbtds on April 01, 2021, 06:15:48 AMEin Wagner-Drei hätte die UCLA aus dem Turnier werfen können.
Warum schreibst du ihm auf Deutsch? Seltsam....
Franz Wagner ist Deutsch aber er hat es wirklich vermasselt, all diese Schussversuche verpasst zu haben.
Quote from: bbtds on April 01, 2021, 07:19:21 PMFranz Wagner ist Deutsch aber er hat es wirklich vermasselt, all diese Schussversuche verpasst zu haben.
Ah so
I think Hogans will Heroes is on some channel on Dish...
Moser to Oklahoma is being reported now
Quote from: valpolaw on April 02, 2021, 04:43:11 PMMoser to Oklahoma is being reported now
Sun Times reports it as done.
Surprising at the location.
In a just world Cameron Krutwig would receive a percentage of Porter Moser's Oklahoma bonanza. On another note, I notice Sister Jean has entered the transfer portal.
Now the Loyola transfers make sense in light of the Moser news.
I think Matt would do very well at Loyola and get a huge pay raise.
Not sure where to go on that.
You can't fault him for striking while the iron is hot this time. Krutwig was their generational player, similar to our Alec Peters.
Quote from: Just Sayin on April 02, 2021, 05:55:47 PM
I think Matt would do very well at Loyola and get a huge pay raise.
I'm not certain if they would listen but if you want to submit a glowing recommendation for him then many of us would be willing to sign.
Wow, a true Conference of Champions national championship title game for the women.
Quote from: justducky on April 03, 2021, 08:22:30 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on April 02, 2021, 05:55:47 PM
I think Matt would do very well at Loyola and get a huge pay raise.
I'm not certain if they would listen but if you want to submit a glowing recommendation for him then many of us would be willing to sign.
At the risk of offending posters that I like and respect, are you not concerned that hyper critical comments like these on top of JO's trashing of Matt on his way out the door might cause our 2021 recruiting class and other potential future recruits to rethink their decisions? This is a public forum. IMO to think that they're not following it would be pretty naive.
The way recruiting is going, it is the Wild West. I think our comments on this board will have no impact.
UCLA lost, but they sure played like a champion. Best Final Four game in awhile.
Valpo vs. Valpo for the national championship!
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 03, 2021, 10:44:29 PM
UCLA lost, but they sure played like a champion. Best Final Four game in awhile.
Mick Cronin must have made a deal with someone prior to the tournament. UCLA seemingly hit every tough shot, got every loose ball, etc that they needed to. Gonzaga didn't play their A game, but UCLA brought their A+++ game. Classic.
Now I fully expect Baylor to run Gonzaga out of the gym Monday. Houston definitely looked like a team that won a broken bracket and had only played double digit seeds to this point.
Quote from: IrishDawg on April 04, 2021, 04:50:32 AMGonzaga didn't play their A game, but UCLA brought their A+++ game. Classic.
Not very many missed shots to remember! What is the point spread for Monday?
Quote from: justducky on April 04, 2021, 08:40:23 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on April 04, 2021, 04:50:32 AMGonzaga didn't play their A game, but UCLA brought their A+++ game. Classic.
Not very many missed shots to remember! What is the point spread for Monday?
On DraftKings, the line moved from -6 Gonzaga before the final 4 games to now Gonzaga -4.5.
IrishDawg, I actually thought Gonzaga played great which made it such a phenomenal game. UCLA gave it their all - and let's quit basing team quality on bogus seeding. They were Final Four worthy. Cronin has been outstanding in preparing his team for the journey, as compared to Sampson with Houston.
Who knows what will happen Monday night, but I'm leaning toward Gonzaga to win. The game last night may be a boost.
Quote from: wh on April 03, 2021, 12:23:52 PM
Quote from: justducky on April 03, 2021, 08:22:30 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on April 02, 2021, 05:55:47 PM
I think Matt would do very well at Loyola and get a huge pay raise.
I'm not certain if they would listen but if you want to submit a glowing recommendation for him then many of us would be willing to sign.
At the risk of offending posters that I like and respect, are you not concerned that hyper critical comments like these on top of JO's trashing of Matt on his way out the door might cause our 2021 recruiting class and other potential future recruits to rethink their decisions? This is a public forum. IMO to think that they're not following it would be pretty naive.
Because I was half joking I did consider attaching a smiley. Unfortunately I was also half serious! :o I realize that Matt and his coaching colleagues are struggling to tread water in a rip current of change. Meanwhile it doesn't take a genius to know that when the floodwaters recede we will barely recognize the landscape.
Society, the courts and the NCAA are inadvertently creating a free agency model that many of us will ultimately drift away from or abandon. I have previously joked that I may need to be recruited to remain a mens college basketball fan. Unfortunately that statement is becoming true!
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 04, 2021, 08:59:48 AM
IrishDawg, I actually thought Gonzaga played great which made it such a phenomenal game. UCLA gave it their all - and let's quit basing team quality on bogus seeding. They were Final Four worthy. Cronin has been outstanding in preparing his team for the journey, as compared to Sampson with Houston.
Who knows what will happen Monday night, but I'm leaning toward Gonzaga to win. The game last night may be a boost.
Gonzaga didn't play great. This was a pretty average offensive performance by them in actuality, but it was their worst defensive performance by almost 10 points per 100 possessions over any other game this year, and it wasn't because their defense was bad. Gonzaga had 15 more shots at the rim and shot a better % shooting at the rim than UCLA. UCLA's game is in the mid-range, but their season average from there is around 43%, but last night against the 4th most efficient defense in the nation (adjusted for opponents), they shot 68% on mid and long range 2's (they shot 25 of them, Gonzaga shot 10, hitting 4), which I'd have to go back and check every game log, but UCLA didn't come close to that in their other most efficient offensive performances of the year. Pair that with shooting just under 50% from 3, and you wind up with the game we got. I don't base team performances on seed lines, it's purely based on how they've performed and who they've done it against. I certainly hope that what Vegas thinks happens, but given the shorter rest and the higher pressure game they had, I think Gonzaga in the 2nd half against Baylor's defense is going to show some fatigue.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 04, 2021, 08:59:48 AM
IrishDawg, I actually thought Gonzaga played great which made it such a phenomenal game. UCLA gave it their all - and let's quit basing team quality on bogus seeding. They were Final Four worthy. Cronin has been outstanding in preparing his team for the journey, as compared to Sampson with Houston.
Who knows what will happen Monday night, but I'm leaning toward Gonzaga to win. The game last night may be a boost.
Much like many long-term CA-based companies that have seen the light, and moved to the great nation of Texas, the NCAA Men's Basketball Championship will find its home in the loving embrace of the Lone Star State ;)
Some bold predictions on here about Baylor dominating tomorrow. I don't see that at all. Gonzaga has the best starting 5 I've seen in a long time. UCLA didn't just play a great game, they played an out-of-their-mind great game. Yet they still lost. Gonzaga is favored by 4.5 points for a reason.
COVID deprived us of this great matchup in the regular season. It is only fitting we get it now. The two best teams in the country and both with Valpo connections. I can be happy with either outcome definitely but I am rooting hard for Gonzaga which is in the city of my birth. I have wanted to see them win a National Championship since I was a kid. They came so close in 2017 I hope they can get it done this year! Go Bulldogs!
I am glad you are happy 1314 and it should be a great game. IMO UCLA. And Baylor would be a great matchup also. The Bruins proved they were final four worthy and can play anyone.
What is the latest on the Loyola coaching situation ? Anything new on player movement, in or out, of MVC teams including Valpo? What is the up-to-date number for the transfer portal and what was the previous high prior to this year?
Former Oakland player, and current Loyola assistant Drew Valentine to become Loyola HC.
That hire sounds exactly like the Valpo hire situation when Matt L got the job. I had heard that the Cleveland State guy was the leading candidate.
Drew is a good program succession candidate. He comes from a coaching linage. His brother is a Chicago Bull. He was a GA at Michigan State. Should they have interviewed and/or sought a current HC or big program assistant? Don't know. Roger Powell would have been an excellent choice to interview (and probably for the program). He should have been a candidate for DePaul and for Loyola. Maybe he's Mark Few's succession candidate? Anyway, the MVC is wide open. Based on this hire, would not think they are moving conferences either. And, 64, based on your comments, it may be designed to try to have Krutwig and Williamson run it back next year. Unlike Lottich, Drew doesn't get an Alec Peters. But, after a couple CVD years, Loyola will save some $$ on coaches' salaries for a couple years.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 05, 2021, 08:51:28 AMI am glad you are happy 1314 and it should be a great game. IMO UCLA. And Baylor would be a great matchup also. The Bruins proved they were final four worthy and can play anyone.
Yes they did. I needed some time to calm down and process that game. That was one of the best games I had seen in a long time and I'm not just saying that because Gonzaga was involved and they won. I told my dad shortly after Suggs hit that heave that if UCLA was going to be taken out of this tournament this is exactly the way it had to go. That was a championship level effort by UCLA the same sort of toughness and effort they had shown all tournament. They have nothing to hang their heads about at all they lived up very well to the tradition of their program and their conference. UCLA truly had some of the best players in this tournament and was probably the toughest-minded team. I would expect nothing less from a Mick Cronin coached team. I have to admit though it felt really good to exercise some of the demons of past Gonzaga-UCLA meetings though. It did my heart good to hear Morrison exclaiming in jubilation after Suggs' shot went in considering the way his college career ended. It's just amazing to marvel at where Gonzaga is now even compared to the Morrison era where they had already been more or less accepted as a national power at least to some degree. I want this win tonight really bad because it is in my opinion the final missing piece for Gonzaga as a program but if we have to lose I'd be happy that it's to a coach and a man like Scott Drew and the Valpo connections that abound through that program because of him.
Quote from: wh on April 04, 2021, 06:55:29 PM
Some bold predictions on here about Baylor dominating tomorrow. I don't see that at all. Gonzaga has the best starting 5 I've seen in a long time. UCLA didn't just play a great game, they played an out-of-their-mind great game. Yet they still lost. Gonzaga is favored by 4.5 points for a reason.
Looks like the bold predictions about Baylor dominating the Zags are spot on. Up 33-14. Very impressive - and totally dominating!
3 coaches in the National Championship game tonight with Valpo ties.
S. Drew, J. Nuness, R. Powell.
Really hoping Valpo gets a mention because of it.....Or Baylor wins the game with the Pacer play. Something to give us some attention. Wish we were good.
We need Scott Drew and Jared Nuness to give a defensive clinic at some VU basketball camp this summer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Struggling to think of a recent basketball team that could have beaten Baylor tonight. ??? They were that good! :o
Wow... That was utter domination... Gonzaga had zero answers for Baylor and Baylor was ridiculously good on the glass and from deep. It's clear who the best team in college basketball is this year. Congratulations to Scott Drew Jared Nuness and the Baylor Bears on an incredibly well-deserved championship! I hope Mark Few will get his title some year but it was not to be this year. They ran into--I believe and felt this way before the tournament started--the team most equipped and most likely to beat them and we all see the results.
The effects of winning in March on enrollment are mentioned here. What could have been for Valpo is what is and has been for Gonzaga. I hope if Valpo makes another run somehow it learns its lesson and does a better job capitalizing on it.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31201277/gonzaga-faltered-rise-remains-one-college-basketball-amazing-tales
Scott Drew will join Homer in the Hall of Fame, once he is finished. What he has done at Baylor over the last 18 years, is nothing short of remarkable. Great to see both he and Jared Nuness win it all! Hopefully Roger Powell gets a shot at being a HC somewhere next season, but an Assistant Coach at Gonzaga is a nice consolation prize. I also hope to see Nuness continue his coaching career ladder ascent.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 06, 2021, 12:33:16 AMThe effects of winning in March on enrollment are mentioned here. What could have been for Valpo is what is and has been for Gonzaga. I hope if Valpo makes another run somehow it learns its lesson and does a better job capitalizing on it. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31201277/gonzaga-faltered-rise-remains-one-college-basketball-amazing-tales
This is a "could have" which is an extreme longshot. Gonzaga is an outlier. Other programs have attempted to follow their model from the late 90's and it has not worked.
Quote from: valpotx on April 06, 2021, 01:19:35 AMScott Drew will join Homer in the Hall of Fame, once he is finished. What he has done at Baylor over the last 18 years, is nothing short of remarkable. Great to see both he and Jared Nuness win it all! Hopefully Roger Powell gets a shot at being a HC somewhere next season, but an Assistant Coach at Gonzaga is a nice consolation prize. I also hope to see Nuness continue his coaching career ladder ascent.
A name to consider if Lottich can't turn it around perhaps?
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/friends-flock-to-indianapolis-to-support-former-valparaiso-coach-scott-drew/article_4e4200b1-f26c-5f2f-adbf-6cd872654282.html
The University of the Incarnate Word in San Antonio is getting a site visit from the WAC apparently. We could see another defection from the Southland and one that threatens their autobid in many sports. I wonder how the Southland will approach trying to recover from all of these defections. You have to believe they will go the route the WAC went previously and try calling D2 schools interested in moving up. They could find receptive ears in some of the Texas schools of the Lone Star Conference such as Angelo State West Texas A&M and perhaps some of the Texas A&M affiliates in that conference.
https://twitter.com/KatFansDotCom/status/1379946640153411588
Who would have thought that the WAC would recover, while hanging on with a bunch of crap schools for several years? West Texas A&M used to be D1 many years ago, and seems to be a solid D2 program that the SL would turn to.
Cincinnati fires Brannen. Maybe Cincinatti hires Lottich. Remember when we used to have to worry about other programs taking our coach. I would like to have that same problem again. That means that we are currently successful and that other programs want what we have......
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 09, 2021, 07:28:54 PM
Cincinnati fires Brannen. Maybe Cincinatti hires Lottich. Remember when we used to have to worry about other programs taking our coach. I would like to have that same problem again. That means that we are currently successful and that other programs want what we have......
We gotten rid of some dead weight. We have some quality recruits and transfers chomping at the bit to take those minutes and make us all proud. You'll be singing a different tune at this time next year.
You'll never see the great things ahead if you're always focused on the rear view mirror.
Quote from: wh on April 09, 2021, 07:41:35 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on April 09, 2021, 07:28:54 PMCincinnati fires Brannen. Maybe Cincinatti hires Lottich. Remember when we used to have to worry about other programs taking our coach. I would like to have that same problem again. That means that we are currently successful and that other programs want what we have......
We gotten rid of some dead weight. We have some quality recruits and transfers chomping at the bit to take those minutes and make us all proud. You'll be singing a different tune at this time next year. You'll never see the great things ahead if you're always focused on the rear view mirror.
Let us also remember however that newer is not always better. Anderson has to stay healthy and Taylor has to prove he can hack it at this level. I wouldn't be so quick to call our team upgraded until we see what we have on the wings in Clay's absence and how we address the (likely) departure of JO. The point guard position? Yes. The rest of the roster? TBD.
Yeah. Lets not have any optimism on the board. Better to walk around with the "kick me" sign pinned to our backs.
Quote from: JD24 on April 09, 2021, 11:04:01 PMYeah. Lets not have any optimism on the board. Better to walk around with the "kick me" sign pinned to our backs.
I fail to see what's wrong with giving the roster an "Incomplete" grade until all the work is done is such a bad thing. I've even acknowledged that our point guard spot is upgraded. The guard play should be better and that will help a lot, but there are questions about the wings and the frontcourt that we need to see how Matt chooses to address. I don't know why that's such an awful disagreeable take to you. I don't know what you want from me or why you keep singling out my posts but keep doing you I guess.
There is optimism and there is reality. Being optimistic is good as long as you are not buffing a turd.
Getting new players is great, and we will see what happens. I hope Valpo is holding Lottich responsible for successful results. The problem I have seen with Valpo athletics is being overly patient and being hesitant in making decisions. I do not want to see a situation where we should be satisfied with mediocrity and 0.500 seasons.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 09, 2021, 11:22:43 PMQuote from: JD24 on April 09, 2021, 11:04:01 PMYeah. Lets not have any optimism on the board. Better to walk around with the "kick me" sign pinned to our backs.
I fail to see what's wrong with giving the roster an "Incomplete" grade until all the work is done is such a bad thing. I've even acknowledged that our point guard spot is upgraded. The guard play should be better and that will help a lot, but there are questions about the wings and the frontcourt that we need to see how Matt chooses to address. I don't know why that's such an awful disagreeable take to you. I don't know what you want from me or why you keep singling out my posts but keep doing you I guess.
All the poster asked was for some optimism which you, predictably, chose to fight. The reason you get singled out, and not just by me, is because you are incredibly negative in your posting style. There is "reality" and then there is not only finding every dark cloud behind a silver lining but expecting everyone else to follow along.
Hmmm.... With Tommy Lloyd being hired at Arizona one has to wonder if perhaps Roger Powell will get a long look one day as Mark Few's successor if he wants the job and another opportunity doesn't come up for him... I would love to see a Valpo connection leading Gonzaga as it might lead to scheduling opportunities for Valpo. Hey I can dream can't I?
Check out this weird clause in Eric Musselman's extension with Arkansas
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2021/4/16/22388225/eric-musselman-san-diego-arkansas-extension-ncaa-tournament-basketball-coach-razorbacks-toreros
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 18, 2021, 06:34:39 PM
Check out this weird clause in Eric Musselman's extension with Arkansas
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2021/4/16/22388225/eric-musselman-san-diego-arkansas-extension-ncaa-tournament-basketball-coach-razorbacks-toreros
He did it for the burritos!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hartford is the first D1 program to move down to D3 in quite a few years. Was Birmingham-Southern the last? Edit: might be Centenary 11-12 years back.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31402209/hartford-athletics-transitioning-division-division-iii
Sad and puzzling to understand why they did this... They are in an academically prestigious conference with a pretty tight footprint and just made their first NCAA Tournament appearance. Interesting move. Probably won't help attract students but that's just my guess. Wonder who the AE will tab to replace Hartford.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 07, 2021, 01:21:30 AM
Sad and puzzling to understand why they did this... They are in an academically prestigious conference with a pretty tight footprint and just made their first NCAA Tournament appearance. Interesting move. Probably won't help attract students but that's just my guess. Wonder who the AE will tab to replace Hartford.
Not super puzzling:
https://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-sp-university-of-hartford-goes-div-iii-20210507-jva2n5pi5nfvvnt2wyr2cz3jde-story.html
Thursday's vote came after a consulting firm's report, commissioned by UHart president Gregory Woodward and published publicly April 15, recommended the school transition to Division III to reduce aid to athletes, coaches' salaries and athletic department operating costs. The report said UHart's athletic department would save more than $9 million annually from such a move, though critics have argued the true savings would be more modest.Other have pointed to UHart's declining enrollment and resulting financial troubles as justification for a potential shift to Division III. According to figures from the university, undergraduate enrollment at UHart dropped about 14% from the fall of 2015 to the fall of 2020, and total enrollment was down about 6.5% during that period.This kind of thing honestly will likely start happening more and more, and smaller D3 schools will probably close shop completely. It's unfortunate, but it's a financial reality in a lot of places.
Quote from: IrishDawg on May 07, 2021, 08:35:12 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 07, 2021, 01:21:30 AM
Sad and puzzling to understand why they did this... They are in an academically prestigious conference with a pretty tight footprint and just made their first NCAA Tournament appearance. Interesting move. Probably won't help attract students but that's just my guess. Wonder who the AE will tab to replace Hartford.
Not super puzzling:
https://www.courant.com/sports/college/hc-sp-university-of-hartford-goes-div-iii-20210507-jva2n5pi5nfvvnt2wyr2cz3jde-story.html
Thursday's vote came after a consulting firm's report, commissioned by UHart president Gregory Woodward and published publicly April 15, recommended the school transition to Division III to reduce aid to athletes, coaches' salaries and athletic department operating costs. The report said UHart's athletic department would save more than $9 million annually from such a move, though critics have argued the true savings would be more modest.
Other have pointed to UHart's declining enrollment and resulting financial troubles as justification for a potential shift to Division III. According to figures from the university, undergraduate enrollment at UHart dropped about 14% from the fall of 2015 to the fall of 2020, and total enrollment was down about 6.5% during that period.
This kind of thing honestly will likely start happening more and more, and smaller D3 schools will probably close shop completely. It's unfortunate, but it's a financial reality in a lot of places.
I would think that they could have just eliminated some sports but they actually sponsor the same number of men's teams as Valpo (seven) but two fewer on the women's side. They do sponsor men's soccer which has to be very expensive with players coming from all over the world. I guess being in a much better conference is really helping as the money coming into the Valley from basketball has got to be a lot bigger than what's coming into the American East. Enter the football debate! They don't play football. We do. We'll get $240,000 guaranteed for playing ND State next fall.
This is sad and very underhanded if it happens. If it does I hope Seattle U will end up where it belongs in the West Coast Conference (even though I know they don't have a chance of getting there while Gonzaga is still there. I wonder if maybe the Big Sky would be an option for them if they should lose a member, though that would take a move by another conference (say Murray State to MVC Western Illinois to OVC Northern Colorado to Summit) to open up room for the Redhawks. Which means there isn't likely to be movement on that front in the immediate future. I hope the WAC just finds its 14th and doesn't go around pushing out members that helped keep it afloat when it needed support. That's a really bad look.
https://andywittry.substack.com/p/could-the-wac-which-officially-adds
Very interesting article on Bellarmine's ambitions. It'll be very interesting to see where they end up in 10-20 years.
https://www.kentucky.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mark-story/article252539153.html
Additionally I saw some message board speculation (I think the original source is a current or former beat writer for North Alabama) saying that Austin Peay and West Florida will be added to the Atlantic Sun within the next year. If that's true I have to wonder how that affects the other OVC schools. Might Belmont take another look at its conference affiliation if APSU bolts? If so would the MVC be ready to make a move? Would the SoCon open up its doors to the Bruins? The plot thickens. I think if Belmont is ready to make a move and is interested in the MVC the MVC has to do it (and take Murray State alongside them). It would do a lot to add depth to this conference a new market in Nashville and a huge passionate fanbase in Murray State. Moreover, Belmont's women's team is pretty darn good too. Interestingly, D1360 (a YouTube channel) thinks that Murray State and Belmont to the MVC is a real possibility if APSU does indeed move to the Atlantic Sun (which he also predicts).
Here's the speculation on the UNA board RE: APSU and West Florida:
https://unapride.proboards.com/thread/1258/asun-football?page=5
And the D1360 video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Voi1a7FfK4Q&t=11s
Other predictions in the video: Virginia State to the MEAC
West Texas A&M to the WAC
Western Illinois to OVC
Southern Indiana to OVC ( This isn't stated in the video but I think the OVC would have to tweak its bylaws to make that happen. I don't think they take D2 callups. I do think USI could eventually be a target for the Atlantic Sun if they really are still considering the idea of eventually splitting into two (football and non football conferences).
File this one under K for KABOOM if it happens
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/college/article/Texas-Oklahoma-reach-out-to-SEC-about-joining-16330080.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
You had to think with NIL happening Texas and Oklahoma would scramble to the SEC or the Big 10 for the bigger payout to better accommodate the change in the college sports climate
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 21, 2021, 04:40:18 PM
File this one under K for KABOOM if it happens
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/college/article/Texas-Oklahoma-reach-out-to-SEC-about-joining-16330080.php?utm_campaign=CMS%20Sharing%20Tools%20(Premium)&utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
You had to think with NIL happening Texas and Oklahoma would scramble to the SEC or the Big 10 for the bigger payout to better accommodate the change in the college sports climate
Interesting to talk about, the potential for mass movement, but there is a lot to happen before this may happen. First, and the most difficult issue to resolve, by the legislature's of both states, Texas is married to Texas Tech and Oklahoma is married to Oklahoma State!!! Yes, this is a thing that has existed since Texas A&M left for the SEC.
The other issue is Texas A&M not wanting Texas and/or Texas Tech in the SEC!!! They will do whatever they need to do to keep the themselves as the only Texas team in the SEC. There may be teams that side with them on the issue too. Georgia, Alabama and Kentucky are the most likely. Anyway, all I'm saying is that this is far from a done deal, but it's fun to talk about. I think the most interesting thing about this is the conversation on where the other teams from the Big 12 go if they break up over this!!!
There is no way in hell that UT and/or OU would join the Big Ten. Absolutely no f'ing way. The SEC? Yes, that is possible. As far as OU being tied to OkSt and UT to TTU? No way. OU and UT flirted with the Pac-10 several years back, and that would have been without the other schools. OkSt and TTU are looked at as the little step-brothers that you tolerate, but don't need to see all of the time.
Father Harry retweeted this article and asked whether Chicago State could be headed to the OVC. Maybe he knows something. If so good for them. That's a great geographic and competitive fit for them... As long as it also means Murray State is gone to the MVC!
https://chicagodefender.com/chicago-states-next-athletic-conference-still-undetermined/
Quote from: valpotx on July 22, 2021, 05:37:22 AMThere is no way in hell that UT and/or OU would join the Big Ten
That may be true, probably is tx, but, the BIG is a really powerful conference with five of the top 10 teams in the latest Coaches poll coming from the BIG. In basketball the BIG was second only to the Big 12 but that was only because of Baylor.
Quote from: vu72 on October 12, 2021, 12:54:27 PMQuote from: valpotx on July 22, 2021, 05:37:22 AMThere is no way in hell that UT and/or OU would join the Big Ten
That may be true, probably is tx, but, the BIG is a really powerful conference with five of the top 10 teams in the latest Coaches poll coming from the BIG. In basketball the BIG was second only to the Big 12 but that was only because of Baylor.
Totally moot point anyway because they're going to the SEC. Looks like the rest of the P5 has chosen to do nothing in response for now but the Big 10 could make a move at a later date. I have to believe that Kansas basketball would be attractive if they could stomach the football. Maybe as a combo with Missouri if Missouri would leave the SEC (unlikely on its face but also because I think the Big 10 is going to hold out for Notre Dame who they won't be able to get until the 2030s anyway) If Missouri were to leave the SEC I would guess they would go after Oklahoma State to get the Bedlam game under the SEC banner. Then the Big XII responds by adding Memphis and Boise State which is rumored anyway and possibly some schools from a pool of candidates like USF SMU Colorado State Air Force San Diego State. The Big XII might actually need to expand even further under this scenario because it opens up the chance that the PAC 12 would try to get into Texas potentially (there was some rumor of TCU and Houston going there before) and the ACC could possibly target Cincinnati and WVU. This is all speculation but a lot could be touched off again if and when the Big 10 decides to make a move as is the case when any P5 conference realigns.
Texas and Oklahoma would never join a Midwest conference. Regardless of your points on being in the top 10 currently, the Big Ten is looked down on in TX
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on October 12, 2021, 12:47:17 PM
Father Harry retweeted this article and asked whether Chicago State could be headed to the OVC. Maybe he knows something. If so good for them. That's a great geographic and competitive fit for them... As long as it also means Murray State is gone to the MVC!
https://chicagodefender.com/chicago-states-next-athletic-conference-still-undetermined/
Chicago State is delusional if they think that they would get an MVC invite at any point in the near future (20+ years).
Quote from: valpotx on October 13, 2021, 07:03:49 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on October 12, 2021, 12:47:17 PMFather Harry retweeted this article and asked whether Chicago State could be headed to the OVC. Maybe he knows something. If so good for them. That's a great geographic and competitive fit for them... As long as it also means Murray State is gone to the MVC! https://chicagodefender.com/chicago-states-next-athletic-conference-still-undetermined/
Chicago State is delusional if they think that they would get an MVC invite at any point in the near future (20+ years).
Sorry if the wording in my post is confusing. It wouldn't be an MVC invite it would be an OVC invite which at this point I think they could get. Speaking of the OVC... Here's an article giving SEMO's (SE Missouri's) perspective on the conference landscape.
https://www.semoball.com/story/2908529.html
While I don't disagree with the premise of the article I must ask where with all due respect would they be able to go. The only OVC schools I see that have a legitimate chance of finding a life raft are Murray State (if the issues holding up their move to the MVC whatever they may be can be resolved) and Tennessee State (if they prefer to go to the SWAC) MAYBE Morehead State and SIUE could get into the HL if they are delusional enough to think that whatever meager presence SIUE would bring of the St Louis market would be worthwhile and if they think Morehead State is a strong enough brand to justify adding a somewhat far flung school that is not a great institutional fit but I see those latter two possibilities as pretty unlikely.)
SIUE for its part remains committed to the OVC. Translation: The HL thing probably isn't happening as their brand is too weak and they aren't interested.
https://www.theintelligencer.com/sports/article/Despite-league-departures-SIUE-committed-to-OVC-16493708.php
The AAC's decision is going to be a good litmus test for whether markets and academic\institutional concerns or performance should matter more. The AAC has chosen a market\academic oriented approach. As this video states performance played very little role in the conference's decisions. I still think for a league like the MVC performance should drive the bus but the AAC has some ability to be selective like this because they get some decent TV revenue and such. If this doesn't work the performance suffers and the payouts crater we'll know. if these schools flourish with the exposure and payouts they will be receiving then maybe other factors should be considered more heavily. All I can say is this is going to be interesting. I don't know why the AAC is going for a bunch of schools that didn't work for CUSA but more power to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNq-jKvr7iw
For its part CUSA could either break apart entirely or hold together. I think it all comes down to what James Madison decides to do. If James Madison chooses CUSA then Marshall Southern Miss and Old Dominion probably don't leave and Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee State don't have to seek a MAC invite. If James Madison chooses the Sun Belt though... I think all hell is going to break loose for CUSA and it will eventually cease to exist. This will be (and is already) fascinating to watch.
Hoo boy... Looks like in a few days CUSA is going to be down to 5 with the MAC supposedly circling on WKU and MTSU. This is huge for the Sun Belt. Their hoops get a little better with Marshall and ODU but their football gets way better.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-932888.html
The last line of this article is very interesting. It states that McNeese State and Sam Houston State have had recent contact with CUSA. If they can hold on to WKU and MTSU get two FCS callups and then add an independent or two they can and will survive. It's not pretty it's pretty gosh darn gross but it's a conference and at this point in this beggars can't be choosers situation CUSA will probably take that.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/conference-usa-future-in-doubt-with-four-teams-expected-to-join-sun-belt-next-week/amp/
Southern Miss is officially in the Sun Belt. Marshall Old Dominion and James Madison are expected to follow shortly. Liberty is no longer interested in CUSA which is a REALLY bad sign for the league. Sounds like the Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee State to the MAC thing might be very far along then. I don't know if being down to three schools is survivable for CUSA.
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1451668085572788231?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1451668085572788231%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-932952.html
CUSA looking at New Mexico State (all sports) Liberty (all sports) and UConn (football only) Surprised UMass (Football only) isn't also being considered
https://csnbbs.com/thread-933671.html
Marshall hasn't committed to anything yet Maybe they will stay and CUSA survives. They'd need a waiver while they wait on an FCS callup though if Marshall leaves and Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee stay (they have been rumored targets of the MAC) You need 8 full members for FBS I believe. With NMSU and Liberty and without Marshall (but holding on to WKU and MTSU) they would only have 7. UConn and UMass would at least help them fill out their schedules though. If Marshall WKU and MTSU all leave it's game over even if NMSU and Liberty are willing to come. I don't think you can call up 3+ FCS schools that fast. There's been some talk that Marshall might go to the MAC instead of the Sun Belt (would be stupid) and UMass would take an all sports invite to join them there. If that happens I would think Loyola would be a massive flight risk. Trading UMass for Loyola would be a huge win for the basketball centric A10 and a big blow to a rival league. I hope UMass stays right where they are unless they do a football only membership with CUSA which I don't care one way or the other on since it wouldn't really affect the MVC.
This will be a great competitive year for the conference of champions coming off a great performance in the NCAA tournament. Bill Walton is definitely optimistic. There are no truck stops in the conference of champions!
Conference of champions? Obviously, this is not a football thread. lol
you could say it is for most every NCAA sport except football and basketball.
If Valpo beats Stanford, will you start calling them "Champion of Champions"?
Multiple sources now confirm Marshall to the Sun Belt has been finalized.
https://twitter.com/ChrisVannini/status/1454127077456846854?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1454127077456846854%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-933728.html
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1454130468413222918?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1454130468413222918%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-933728.html
It sounds like James Madison is indeed coming as well we're just waiting on everything to be fully finalized. They have some local political hoops to jump through (In Virginia funding rules are different for FBS and FCS teams FBS teams cannot rely as heavily on student fees as FCS teams can so James Madison has to show the state how they can fund their transition. That process should be completed within a week.
https://twitter.com/Madia_DNRSports/status/1454110177414758407?s=20
https://csnbbs.com/thread-933709.html
CUSA is now down to 5 schools and I'm not sure if I see their NMSU Liberty UConn gambit paying off and remember that WKU and Middle Tennessee are flight risks (assuming the MAC is interested and it's their turn to swing if they want to). The JMU news is the most significant because that WILL have ramifications at the FCS level which could impact Murray State's football situation assuming that is the only holdup. We'll see with the Missouri State rumors subsiding and CUSA possibly disappearing into the ether (shocking how a conference can go from 14 to gone in a matter of weeks what people thought would happen to the Big XII is happening to them) affects MVC expansion. Hopefully we can get this done soon as more potential paths forward (since the current ones are apparently not workable right now) become available and clearer.)
Is it me or did the Sun Belt just out football the AAC in terms of these realignment adds? Don't get me wrong as long as Memphis Navy and SMU are still around it will be a better conference but if Big XII expansion round II happens look out.
Where would you rank Valpo among all 10 Indiana schools? Click below to see where CBS sports ranked your school by state.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/united-states-of-college-basketball-2021-22-where-every-team-ranks-in-each-state-from-top-to-bottom/
Former foe King Kampe and the Oakland Grizz just knocked off Oklahoma st. in Stillwater.
Former foe Porter Moser opened his career at Oklahoma with a 50 point win against UTSA.
The FREAKIN' BEACONS are now #225 :o How LOW can you GO!!! Come "Door Matt" get real :(
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/1460714826699841539
Wow, a big development.
I took a lot of crap for suggesting that this was possible before but it always made sense after the Final Four run and looking at their subsequent budgets. Good for Loyola. They are now with budgetary institutional and academic peers and have access to many prominent east coast markets as they look to become a more national school. They can still schedule their local rivals in the MVC if they wish in the Nonconference and I hope they do. It would be a victory for all concerned. This is a big blow to Valpo locally though as well because Loyola was always one of our better attended games and Loyola getting even more press in the market only further marginalizes Valpo (not that our performance has earned us anything). I had to think something was up when I started to see Loyola games on NBC Sports Chicago and here it is. A good fit for everyone except the MVC but you can't think about who you're leaving behind when you make the best decision for yourself as an institution. I wish them well and hope that they will give us one more good sendoff and will schedule us in the nonconference going forward. I also hope we have the good sense in the MVC not to go after crappy far away programs but we'll see who we end up adding.
Loyola has a unproven coach and after this year different players. Basically the A10 bought last years team and hoping the magic continues. Kind of like the MVC conference bought us based on what Bryce did here.
Quote from: Chairback on November 16, 2021, 05:07:52 PMLoyola has a unproven coach and after this year different players. Basically the A10 bought last years team and hoping the magic continues. Kind of like the MVC conference bought us based on what Bryce did here.
Loyola will do better in the A-10 than we have so far in the Valley. I firmly believe that. And if not they will spend the money to be more competitive unlike VU who can't or won't.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 16, 2021, 05:21:28 PM
Quote from: Chairback on November 16, 2021, 05:07:52 PMLoyola has a unproven coach and after this year different players. Basically the A10 bought last years team and hoping the magic continues. Kind of like the MVC conference bought us based on what Bryce did here.
Loyola will do better in the A-10 than we have so far in the Valley. I firmly believe that. And if not they will spend the money to be more competitive unlike VU who can't or won't.
Being older, I have a longer personal view of Loyola. They were a consistently poor bb program for at least 2 decades before they struck pay dirt. To Chairback's point, the 1 coach and 1 player who took them to the promised land will be long gone next year. Valpo had 2 decades of successful teams before they moved to the MVC, multiple league MVP's, tournament appearances, Sweet 16, NBA players, etc. And yet that hasn't translated into success in the MVC. Hopefully it will soon. Whether Loyola parlays their current success into A-10 success is IMO a coin flip. That said, they have represented the Valley well, and I wish them the best.
Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.
Quote from: VU75 on November 16, 2021, 09:31:41 PMActually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.
I don't know what their commitment to the A10 would be but they've had 2 essentially 20 year tournament droughts with one year in prior to the Moser/Krutwig show. With both gone, who knows what happens.
Congratulations Loyola.
I remember when the crusaders joined the HL and learning the teams. Loyola was the towards the bottom every year.
Jumped to the Valley and then 10 years later jumped to the A10. Quick turn if events for this university and its athletics.
They did have some outside natural factors that helped with the promotion.
Good academics, chicago, catholic.
Some of the factors they could control.
Who they hired when moving to the valley. Recruiting. Investing in the program.
They did well. Congrats to our closest mvc rival.
Quote from: VU75 on November 16, 2021, 09:31:41 PM
Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.
That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.
Quote from: a3uge on November 17, 2021, 07:21:48 AM
Quote from: VU75 on November 16, 2021, 09:31:41 PM
Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.
That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.
1998
Quote from: Just Sayin on November 17, 2021, 08:07:23 AM
Quote from: a3uge on November 17, 2021, 07:21:48 AM
Quote from: VU75 on November 16, 2021, 09:31:41 PM
Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.
That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.
1998
So you're comparing Valpo's tournament teams with Loyola's doormat teams that dragged the Horizon down since the mid 80s?
Quote from: a3uge on November 17, 2021, 07:21:48 AM
Quote from: VU75 on November 16, 2021, 09:31:41 PM
Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.
That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.
• Prior to Krutwig's arrival, Loyola had not been to the NCAA tournament since 1985.
• In those 33 years Loyola had 25 losing seasons.
• In those 33 years Loyola won exactly 1 regular season conference championship (31 years ago) and 0 tournament championships.
That is complete and utter incompetence by anyone's standards.
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2021, 08:32:36 AM
Quote from: a3uge on November 17, 2021, 07:21:48 AM
Quote from: VU75 on November 16, 2021, 09:31:41 PM
Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.
That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.
• Prior to Krutwig's arrival, Loyola had not been to the NCAA tournament since 1985.
• In those 33 years Loyola had 25 losing seasons.
• In those 33 years Loyola won exactly 1 regular season conference championship (31 years ago) and 0 tournament championships.
That is complete and utter incompetence by anyone's standards.
Since I'm on my soapbox, let me also say this. Loyola receiving an invitation to join the Valley was the most undeserved "promotion" I've ever seen. I can't think of a worse Horizon League team at the time with the possible exception of YSU. They got the job simply because they fit the uniform (Chicago market).
I have no ill will toward Loyola whatsoever. I wish them the best. I'm also not foolish enough to buy into a narrative that Loyola University is some sort of mid major basketball power whose ship finally came in. This is not the Butler rags-to-riches story by a different name. Two things, and only two things are responsible for their 2 conference moves: their location and Carmen Krutwig.
Goodbye and good luck, Loyola. Next man up.
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2021, 09:15:25 AM
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2021, 08:32:36 AM
Quote from: a3uge on November 17, 2021, 07:21:48 AM
Quote from: VU75 on November 16, 2021, 09:31:41 PM
Actually Loyola has been to the sweet sixteen in 4 different decades I find it hard to question their commitment to succeeding in the A10.
That's one way to skirt around 30 years of incompetence.
• Prior to Krutwig's arrival, Loyola had not been to the NCAA tournament since 1985.
• In those 33 years Loyola had 25 losing seasons.
• In those 33 years Loyola won exactly 1 regular season conference championship (31 years ago) and 0 tournament championships.
That is complete and utter incompetence by anyone's standards.
Since I'm on my soapbox, let me also say this. Loyola receiving an invitation to join the Valley was the most undeserved "promotion" I've ever seen. I can't think of a worse Horizon League team at the time with the possible exception of YSU. They got the job simply because they fit the uniform (Chicago market).
I have no I'll will toward Loyola whatsoever. I wish them the best. I'm also not foolish enough to buy into a narrative that Loyola University is some sort of mid major basketball power whose ship finally came in. This is not the Butler rags-to-riches story by a different name. Two things, and only two things are responsible for their 2 conference moves: their location and Carmen Krutwig.
Goodbye and good luck, Loyola. Next man up.
I agree with the general points here, but I think that Porter Moser was a big driver of the success that fostered Loyola's two conference moves. He recruited and developed Krutwig and found and developed a lot of players that fit well into his system. Ironically, Moser is gone now and (unlike Butler) there is no evidence that Loyola has a system in which they succeed even if they change coaches. Perhaps they will succeed despite transitions in coaching, but that is yet to be seen.
Given Loyola's recent high level of performance, it is the location that drove this. A10 had an opportunity to enter the Chicago market with a team that could be considered good enough to play in their conference. A10 is a strange conference in that not only does it have a lot of teams (14 prior to this move), there is tremendous variance across the programs (Duquense, LaSalle and Fordham are really weak programs relative to VCU, Davidson and Dayton).
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 17, 2021, 09:27:12 AMunlike Butler) there is no evidence that Loyola has a system in which they succeed even if they change coaches.
There is no doubt that Butler has many years of "success" in terms of total wins but what they have done since moving to the Big East is two 2nd place finishes in 9 years (those were however 5 and 7 years ago) and one last place tie, a 9th and a 10th and the balance being middle of the pack.
As has been shown by us, moving up to a new conference ( and I'm not willing to say that the A-10 is better overall than the Valley) isn't always all that successful, though in Butler (and our) case, it has been much better money wise and in Butler's case, due to the higher ranked conference, has led to additional NCAA bids.
Any money from their tournament appearances stay with us right? That's as far as I go in the being concerned about this.
"wh", your comments are right on the money.
in
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2021, 09:15:25 AMSince I'm on my soapbox, let me also say this. Loyola receiving an invitation to join the Valley was the most undeserved "promotion" I've ever seen
Absolutely right, and what did they do about that.
I've been on this board for decades and I've read post after post about now is the time to make a commitment to athletics: after the sweet 16, after joining the Horizon, after joining the Valley. Well, 20 years ago the Gentile Center was basically a brand new version of the ARC, and after a dozen years it was renovated into the first class arena Valpo has talked about forever. That got Loyola in, and rather then just being happy to be in, they took advantage. Since then they built a 3 story athletic training building and a 2 story practice facility.
They have been competitive in every sport and maybe it's an advantage not dealing with short armed Lutherans, but Loyola seems to be very skilled in finding deep pocket donors. The Loyola people I deal with see the 10 as a stepping stone. After being blocked by DePaul time after time, the dream is to force their way into the Big East. I wouldn't go that far but a I do see an athletic department working hand in hand with the administration with a hefty enrollment increase to encourage it to continue. That's a real attraction for quality coaches.. Loyola will have a larger recruiting footprint then most of the conference and with the Big East poaching the top 2 or 3 teams they should be able to compete in the top half of the league.
Quote from: crusader05 on November 17, 2021, 10:04:03 AMAny money from their tournament appearances stay with us right? That's as far as I go in the being concerned about this.
Yes earned credits stay with the conference and I think as a departing member Loyola forfeits their share but I'm not positive on that. They certainly do once they leave but I don't know about this one year interim time. I hope they leave some more on the way out the door. The question is who steps up and takes their mantle? My money is on Drake or Belmont. If we get Murray State I feel confident in them too. UNI and Missouri State have been bafflingly inconsistent relative to the talent on their rosters.
As I've said I advocate three teams being added right now:
Murray State to replace Loyola's basketball prowess somewhat
NKU as a quality Q2 level program and a hedge against potentially losing Missouri State (I think we can get similar or possibly better results from them)
UIC to replace Loyola's Chicago presence somewhat. (From a basketball\athletics perspective I would prefer Wright State they are to the Horizon what Missouri State and to some degree UNI are to the MVC in that they are good at almost everything but I have heard nothing to suggest that their financial troubles are over so they are on hold right now. UIC offers this similar potential if they decide to invest and offers a very important Chicago presence which we now lack.
Do that and there's a good chance we'll end up being fine. Add Arlington and KC and we're careening toward permanent one bid status.
Looks like we can now consider SFA again...
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 17, 2021, 06:08:49 PMLooks like we can now consider SFA again...
If we're adding Arlington sure From an athletics perspective I would take them over Arlington but their academics clearly need work it seems. That makes them a likely no go.
1314 - where do you get this information? complete BS. SFA is a great teachers and forestry university and has a pretty decent business school. Academically, it is there with Indiana State, UNI, and Missouri St. My wife went to school there and I work with a few graduates who went there.
Can we buyout Sister Jean's Contract :cheers: :cheers:
Quote from: VU75 on November 17, 2021, 03:22:14 PM
in Quote from: wh on November 17, 2021, 09:15:25 AMSince I'm on my soapbox, let me also say this. Loyola receiving an invitation to join the Valley was the most undeserved "promotion" I've ever seen
Absolutely right, and what did they do about that.
I've been on this board for decades and I've read post after post about now is the time to make a commitment to athletics: after the sweet 16, after joining the Horizon, after joining the Valley. Well, 20 years ago the Gentile Center was basically a brand new version of the ARC, and after a dozen years it was renovated into the first class arena Valpo has talked about forever. That got Loyola in, and rather then just being happy to be in, they took advantage. Since then they built a 3 story athletic training building and a 2 story practice facility.
They have been competitive in every sport and maybe it's an advantage not dealing with short armed Lutherans, but Loyola seems to be very skilled in finding deep pocket donors. The Loyola people I deal with see the 10 as a stepping stone. After being blocked by DePaul time after time, the dream is to force their way into the Big East. I wouldn't go that far but a I do see an athletic department working hand in hand with the administration with a hefty enrollment increase to encourage it to continue. That's a real attraction for quality coaches.. Loyola will have a larger recruiting footprint then most of the conference and with the Big East poaching the top 2 or 3 teams they should be able to compete in the top half of the league.
Who do you see the Big East poaching from the A10? I do not see Saint Louis happening due to the strength of its program relative to the Big East programs. There have also been financial stability issues at Saint Louis that are similar to issues at some Big East schools - but those schools are already in the Big East. Dayton may love to join the Big East, but they will get blocked by Xavier unless there is some overriding need to expand. Same with Loyola - except I think they would be blocked by both DePaul and Marquette. Only one school plays FBS football (UConn) in the Big East (and they are awful in football), so the conference can be pretty confident that no programs are going to leave for a better alternative.
Mosier and the Sooners beat possible MVC school, UTSA, 96-44.
UTSA would be a horrible add for the non basketball sports. Unless they are planning to fly the non revenue sports, which means significant expenses, this add would be a nightmare. The MVC has a midwest identity. I don't get it.
UIC Murray State or Wright State makes much more sense.
Belmont is up on Drake 40-33 at halftime - ESPN 2.
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 18, 2021, 12:51:08 PM
Mosier and the Sooners beat possible MVC school, UTSA, 96-44.
UTSA is joining the AAC
Quote from: wh on November 25, 2021, 07:22:42 PM
Belmont is up on Drake 40-33 at halftime - ESPN 2.
Belmont 74 Drake 69 FINAL
Drake's first loss.
A quick rundown of where future and potential MVC teams stand.
(And yes the season is very early).
Belmont 4-2
Beat Evansville and Drake. They play a good one tonight vs. Iona who just beat #10 Alabama.
Murray St. 5-1
Beat Illinois St.
Kansas City 3-2
Beat Missouri, lost to Minnesota and Iowa.
UTA 1-4
Only win vs non D-1
NKU 2-2
UIC 2-3
Beat Valpo, lost to Loyola
Milwaukee 1-4
Wright St 1-5
Only win vs. non D-1
Oakland 5-2
Beat Toledo, Oklahoma St.
St. Thomas 3-3
New to D-1.
1. Oakland is not a potential MVC player
2. Sample size should be last 5 years, not last 5 games
Also, SFA is 4-2 after losing to SLU by 11. Let's not forget they should be in the mix if UTA is.
In other college hoops news...
USC is 5-0 after defeating St. Joseph and the proud undefeated conference of champion member faces San Diego St. tonight.
It has been awhile, but we finally anticipate a great DePaul Loyola matchup next week.
I will be at the Valpo Drake game, enjoying dinner and beverages at the University Library before the game.
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 26, 2021, 08:39:46 AM
1. Oakland is not a potential MVC player
2. Sample size should be last 5 years, not last 5 games
I'd take Oakland and Kampe way before UMKC.
Like way before
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SFA would be a better MVC member than UTA or UTSA or UMKC. The axers love their sports
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 27, 2021, 12:00:07 PM
SFA would be a better MVC member than UTA or UTSA or UMKC. The axers love their sports
Their students love their alcohol, as well ;)
AJ Green had 35 and UNI upset #16 St. Bonaventure on the road!
Once again TD, what's wrong with working hard and playing hard? I know you're having fun with me which I appreciate, but there are some ultra conservatives thinking that beer and a great academic experience don't mix. It's narrow minded IMHO. Not saying everyone should drink, of course not - but a school shouldn't be ripped because of a party atmosphere.
Duke has insane parties - and academically it's pretty good.
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 27, 2021, 08:34:13 PM
Once again TD, what's wrong with working hard and playing hard? I know you're having fun with me which I appreciate, but there are some ultra conservatives thinking that beer and a great academic experience don't mix. It's narrow minded IMHO. Not saying everyone should drink, of course not - but a school shouldn't be ripped because of a party atmosphere.
Duke has insane parties - and academically it's pretty good.
Don't conflate conservatism with fundamentalism.
I stand mistaken. I loathe when folks rip a school for a strong social atmosphere. Alcohol free does not imply great academics. SFA academically is similar to UNI, Missouri State and Indiana State.
USC is 6-0 after defeating TJ state.... Ranked 24 but moving on up baby!
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 28, 2021, 10:44:47 AM
I stand mistaken. I loathe when folks rip a school for a strong social atmosphere. Alcohol free does not imply great academics. SFA academically is similar to UNI, Missouri State and Indiana State.
You need to understand that when I was in HS/college, growing up in TX, SFASU was widely viewed as a party school. It was not known for academics, though it probably had some good programs. It has probably changed in the last 20 years.
"Butler, slated for sixth place (BE), brings back 10 of its top 11 scorers, including six fifth-year players."
No wonder we have a labor shortage.
Good day for Alabama. In addition to the football win over Georgia, Tide beat Gonzaga in basketball.
Just Saw LSU was playing. Commentators praising head Coach Will Wade....
How in the hell is Will Wade still a coach after the audio was releases a few years back proving he paid players?!?!?!
I think because the infraction he committed isn't an infraction anymore they're probably not going to go after those claims even though judging by the rules of the time it was technically an offense. I also think it's very possible that NIL only passed because actually following the rules that were in place at the time would have embroiled too many P5 schools in scandal and barred them from the tournament and possibly shattered the myth of P5 superiority held by the Selection Committee and many pundits. Moreover, it also would have potentially (even probably) accelerated a potential split between the P5 and the rest of D1 which might still be a possibility one day. Once you give autonomy to certain members of an organization it's only a matter of time before the system you set up becomes a true reality where they are truly separate.
LA right now is the college hoops hotspot with conference of champions members UCLA and USC both ranked in the top 10. I wonder where KenPom ranks them.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 30, 2021, 04:22:30 PM
LA right now is the college hoops hotspot with conference of champions members UCLA and USC both ranked in the top 10. I wonder where KenPom ranks them.
USC 19
UCLA 10
Based primarily on their performance and strength of schedule, not their W-L record.
Kenpom rankings are a joke. Compare the PAC 12 performance in the NCAA tournament and their bogus ranking compared to the Big 10 teams whose seasons blew like a fart in the wind.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 30, 2021, 05:19:15 PM
Kenpom rankings are a joke. Compare the PAC 12 performance in the NCAA tournament and their bogus ranking compared to the Big 10 teams whose seasons blew like a fart in the wind.
Your confusing me with someone who gives a crap about The Big 10 or the Pac 12.
Just for you usc4valpo:
https://twitter.com/kylamb8/status/1476760877240045582
If you want to look at it in a positive manner, the PAC-12 is 2-0 in being the second best team in their bowl games! Congrats to the Conference of Consolations!
Congrats to the Conference of Consolations in now being 3-0 in securing second place in their bowl games! Good job Arizona State, you are falling right in line with the rest of your runner-up peers!
Basketball dudes. Football sucks right now, and the non playoff bowl games are a bad indicator with the lack of significance, transfer rules and players opting out. PAC 12 baseball is solid and Olympic sports success is off the charts.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 31, 2021, 03:32:07 AM
Basketball dudes. Football sucks right now, and the non playoff bowl games are a bad indicator with the lack of significance, transfer rules and players opting out. PAC 12 baseball is solid and Olympic sports success is off the charts.
Excuses are like butts...everyone's got one ;).
Also, unless Left Out University is part of the PAC-12, I don't believe that the conference has a team in the playoffs? Good news, however, as the PAC-12 is now 4-0 in winning the runner-up prize in their bowl games. The Conference of Consolation Winners continues on!
Here's a smart move. Loyola hasn't played a game since early December due to Covid so they picked up a neutral site game against SF! And no it's not the school from Texas ;)
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/1478204308944572416
Very good move by Loyola. We may be seeing a newfangled Bracketbuster 2.0 as the season progresses.
At least in the Conference of champions you don't have truck stops like Waco with the worst interstate road construction around. That drive on I35 really sucked. Thanks God for the kolaches at Buc-ees.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 05, 2022, 05:57:58 PM
At least in the Conference of champions you don't have truck stops like Waco with the worst interstate road construction around. That drive on I35 really sucked. Thanks God for the kolaches at Buc-ees.
Uh....California highways suck! Trash littered everywhere. I remember a drive from Los Angeles to Temecula, down to San Diego, and I was appalled.
Getting into I35 traffic jams in the middle of nowhere or the Waco truck stop is unacceptable. Abbott and Cruz need to pay immediate attention to this and accelerate the infrastructure cash to Texas.
In LA you would expect congestion just like any other metropolis. As for getting stuff in a rural area, it is unacceptable.
That being said, San Antonio is great city with untapped potential. Bigger things are going to happen there.
UTA to the WAC looks almost official.
https://twitter.com/MattBrownEP/status/1481339286238621697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1481339286238621697%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-940071.html
Chicago State being courted by the MEAC and the OVC.
https://hbcugameday.com/2022/01/11/source-meac-chicago-state-weighing-options/
I would actually love to see them get into the OVC. It would be the most geographically friendly conference they have been in since they were in the Mid-Con. That would really help their program while the MEAC even with its difficult travel situation would be a nice institutional fit for them.
https://hbcugameday.com/2022/01/11/source-meac-chicago-state-weighing-options/
Yes, Chicago State should join the OVC. I get the HBCU connection to the MEAC, but that will kill their program even more, similar to their time in the WAC.
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/1482103288199671808
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1482103824508768264
Honestly, it is amazing that Chicago State still exists with the financials burden in Illinois.
Big conference of champions matchup as Duckzilla faces Troy. Walton may be on this game.
I think a big shakeup in the FCS football ranks is coming. I don't see it affecting the MVC that much but many conferences are going to look radically different over the next year or few years.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1482151232454430722?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1482151232454430722%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsnbbs.com%2Fthread-940278.html
Our program is rudderless and we need to clean up our own house, but this put a small smile on my face. ;)
https://twitter.com/butlermbb/status/1482789777342615553?s=21
The Conference of Champions are in 6th place for all conferences and will probably only have 3 teams to make it to the dance while other conferences:
QuoteLunardi Bracketology
CONFERENCE BREAKDOWN
Big Ten 8
Big East 7
SEC 7
Big 12 7
ACC 4
WCC 4
Pac-12 3
Mountain West 2
Conference USA 2
American 2
Pac-12 = Conference of chumpions.
https://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2018-07-06/colleges-most-ncaa-championships
How have the COCs done since Richard Nixon was President? And how many national championships has USC won?
3 in football since Nixon was president. More than Notre Dame or Texas. The COC also has insanely strong Olympic sports success, far more than any other conference.
Conference of Champions in the sports that no one cares about, and Conference of Consolation in all others
After Wooden in basketball, the COC hasn't done much at all in basketball. It seems the other teams in the COC have been riding on the coattails of success of UCLA+Wooden as their entire claim to fame. That's kinda like Valpo's claim to fame was one Sweet 16 appearance many, many years ago.
correct me if I am wrong, when the was last time a Big 10 team won a NC in basketball?
Who is talking about the Big 10?
also the that the COC has the best eye candy, a lot of beautiful people, and the most beautiful campuses in natural settings. There are no truck stops!
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 17, 2022, 01:51:58 PM
also the that the COC has the best eye candy, a lot of beautiful people, and the most beautiful campuses in natural settings. There are no truck stops!
Lord no. Tons of uglies in CA :).
Someone may be happy to hear that Grand Canyon University lost it's first conference game to none other than......wait for it......wait for it.......
Stephen
Fuller
Austin
State
University
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/gcu/2022/01/20/grand-canyon-basketball-routed-stephen-f-austin/6604263001/
All joking aside I am happy to see Bryce succeeding with the Antelopes in Phoenix. I'll be rooting for them come March!
Sorry, I love my wife more than Bryce and taking care of me during Covid - Axe 'Em Jacks!
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 21, 2022, 05:59:49 AM
Someone may be happy to hear that Grand Canyon University lost it's first conference game to none other than......wait for it......wait for it.......
Stephen
Fuller
Austin
State
University
https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/gcu/2022/01/20/grand-canyon-basketball-routed-stephen-f-austin/6604263001/
All joking aside I am happy to see Bryce succeeding with the Antelopes in Phoenix. I'll be rooting for them come March!
I caught a GCU game the other day and it was bizarre! The gym was packed, the kids were wearing multiple colored shirts and not a mask in sight! clearly a very right wing group! ;)
Did they think their loss to SFA was rigged? ::)
Bryce is out with Covid (again) and didn't coach last night.
PomPom rankings
Loyola 21
Murray St 40
Mo st 63
Belmont 65
Drake 105
UNI 101
Bradley 111
SIU 128
SFA 129
Illinois St 165
Indy St 167
Valpo 196
uTA 228 - wow a better candidate than SFA?
uIC 272 (wow that really sucks)
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 22, 2022, 11:14:25 AMPomPom rankings Loyola 21 Murray St 40 Mo st 63 Belmont 65 Drake 105 UNI 101 Bradley 111 SIU 128 SFA 129 Illinois St 165 Indy St 167 Valpo 196 uTA 228 - wow a better candidate than SFA? uIC 272 (wow that really sucks)
Given a choice nobody would have picked UTA over SFA the point is SFA was never really on the board for the MVC. I said this in the expansion thread and on the MVC Board as well but I'll repeat it here: UIC sucks at basketball now but they could be really good in a few years if they commit to getting better. They have a real incentive to do so now with strong brands and regional rivals and definitely have the means to do so given the size of their endowment and athletics budget. If they choose to focus on basketball they can be a slam dunk for the MVC.
Sounds like containing Neese has already been accomplished -- out for the game.
.
Just another day in the conference of champions:
QuoteUCLA freshman forward Mac Etienne was arrested and cited with assault after allegedly spitting on Arizona fans at the conclusion of Thursday's Pac-12 basketball game.
allegedly appears to be a loose term here as there is video of the event widely circulating.
To get respect, USC needs to step up against Zona today.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 05, 2022, 09:23:59 AM
To get respect, USC needs to step up against Zona today.
That's a high bar.
USC gave AZ all they could handle and then some. USC was hungry. But they lost.
Usc could hang with zona. Just need to hire coach K and have him bring his team over. Sign a couple of them to NIL with dr. Dre beats company. :lol:
Yep, maybe if the OU asked Riley about joining the riches of the pompous SEC, the mass exodus to the ultimate conference of champion school would not have happened.
Probably more to it than just moving to the SEC. But the program is larger than one coach and his opinion on which conference he wants. ML may take note.....programs are larger than one player.
If usc doesn't dominate the pac12 something is wrong.
This hire signals that USC football is back Book it And that pains me to say as a UW support but that program hasn't been the same since Peterson stepped down anyway
Has anyone noticed how the Green Bay program has tanked? They are 3-10 in the HL and 4-18 overall. The last couple of years have not been much better. Even their women's program has regressed.
Quote from: valpo64 on February 07, 2022, 03:06:10 PMHas anyone noticed how the Green Bay program has tanked? They are 3-10 in the HL and 4-18 overall. The last couple of years have not been much better. Even their women's program has regressed.
Yeah financial issues have really hit them hard given their small enrollment and endowment. That and they made a pretty headscratching decision firing their coach a few years ago who was unspectacular but doing a solid job. Sometimes the grass isn't greener when you make a coaching change.
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33245856/government-view-fbs-college-football-players-division-mens-women-basketball-players-school-employees-according-advocacy-group-complaint
With the movement for players ton control their NIL, I had thought that this would be the next step that could be pursued. A labor movements that argues that college athletes in sports that generate a lot of revenue are employees.
As the article states, this may take years to unravel. But if these athletes are considered employees, then it could dramatically change the nature of college sports.
-Programs could pay whatever they wanted to pay. What is interesting here is that greater pay may come with signing a contract. If a player comes out of high school and signs a four year contract and then develops rapidly, does an NBA team have to buy out the contract if they want him before four years have expired?
-If players are employees, do they need to be students? Restated, if NCAA enforcement is eliminated, some schools may choose to totally ignore academics. In the extreme case, this would make men's basketball look like a minor league to the NBA.
I truly hope that fails. I am much more interested to see the development of sports at HBCUs, now that you have athletes taking those offers over P5 programs. That would be much more of a hit to the large programs, versus this BS lawsuit.
Vu84v2 - reading this and seeing the "guaranteed" NIL deals players are getting particularly at SEC schools(e.g., Texas A&M), it just shows how useless the NCAA has become. Also, with the one and done rule, allowing athletes easy transfer from schools to promote themselves to higher levels of competition (like a baseball player going from AA to AAA), and providing bogus degree programs, NCAA basketball has already become a minor league to a large extent.
Juwan Howard may soon be available.
What a buffoon.
Doubt he gets fired but completely unacceptable.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on February 20, 2022, 06:54:15 PMDoubt he gets fired but completely unacceptable.
We can't have the coaches starting fights. There were at least a few players also involved after Howard was pulled away including one Michigan player who looked as if he threw multiple punches.
It is a fire-able offense but, I agree, he won't be fired. It's doubly concerning because he had an issue last year which received no discipline from the Big 10 when he got into it with Mark Turgeon.
Quote from: JD24 on February 20, 2022, 07:26:22 PM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on February 20, 2022, 06:54:15 PMDoubt he gets fired but completely unacceptable.
We can't have the coaches starting fights. There were at least a few players also involved after Howard was pulled away including one Michigan player who looked as if he threw multiple punches.
It is a fire-able offense but, I agree, he won't be fired. It's doubly concerning because he had an issue last year which received no discipline from the Big 10 when he got into it with Mark Turgeon.
He's not a good representative of The University of Michigan but because he's black, they will ignore doing the right thing and terminating him.
https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1495561769141608448
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 20, 2022, 08:45:22 PMQuote from: JD24 on February 20, 2022, 07:26:22 PMQuote from: elephtheria47 on February 20, 2022, 06:54:15 PMDoubt he gets fired but completely unacceptable.
We can't have the coaches starting fights. There were at least a few players also involved after Howard was pulled away including one Michigan player who looked as if he threw multiple punches. It is a fire-able offense but, I agree, he won't be fired. It's doubly concerning because he had an issue last year which received no discipline from the Big 10 when he got into it with Mark Turgeon.
He's a good representative of The University of Michigan but because he's black, they will ignore doing the right thing and terminating him.
Likely so but it has to be considered that we seemed to be one more punch away from Malice at the Palace II....started by a coach.....who was upset at a timeout called......one year following a similar incident in which Howard was reportedly heard shouting that he'd kill Mark Turgeon.
Let's think about that.
"Because he's black"? Are you kidding me? It's bad enough that thought entered your head. Doubly bad you thought it worthy of putting on here.
I agree they'll keep him, but they'll keep him because he wins and he's an alum. This is the kind of s*** that parents of recruits read on our board and say "No thanks".
Hahaha.
I agree he will not be fired but he should be already gone. However, because of a number of factors, he will continue as the head coach. Disgusting!
Quote from: valpo64 on February 21, 2022, 09:37:14 AM
I agree he will not be fired but he should be already gone. However, because of a number of factors, he will continue as the head coach. Disgusting!
Howard is an angry black man with a chip on his shoulders. He's behaved like a thug before. This is not his first instance. Howard threatened Maryland coach Mark Turgeon before he was ejected during a game last year. No action was taken. He thinks he can say and do anything he wants without any consequences. He's right. They will not do what should be done. Fire him. Oh, but he wins games.
Ha! If a white coach had threatened the life of a black coach and a few months later slapped a black coach in a handshake line, many of you guilty white liberals (not you 64) would be howling racism and demanding that he be fired. But no, we can't hold a black man to the same standard. It is taboo to criticize any black man for bad behavior. Spare me the faux outrage for having the audacity of criticizing a black man who obviously has anger issues and is so arrogant that he thinks he can slap another coach and thinks he doesn't have to exercise self-control; thinking because he is black, he's entitled to act in ways that would get any other human being fired.
https://twitter.com/totally_t_bomb/status/1495639551855022083
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 21, 2022, 10:26:12 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on February 21, 2022, 09:37:14 AM
I agree he will not be fired but he should be already gone. However, because of a number of factors, he will continue as the head coach. Disgusting!
Howard is an angry black man with a chip on his shoulders. He's behaved like a thug before. This is not his first instance. Howard threatened Maryland coach Mark Turgeon before he was ejected during a game last year. No action was taken. He thinks he can say and do anything he wants without any consequences. He's right. They will not do what should be done. Fire him. Oh, but he wins games.
Ha! If a white coach had threatened the life of a black coach and a few months later slapped a black coach in a handshake line, many of you guilty white liberals (not you 64) would be howling racism and demanding that he be fired. But no, we can't hold a black man to the same standard. It is taboo to criticize any black man for bad behavior. Spare me the faux outrage for having the audacity of criticizing a black man who obviously has anger issues and is so arrogant that he thinks he can slap another coach and thinks he doesn't have to exercise self-control; thinking because he is black, he's entitled to act in ways that would get any other human being fired.
Ok that's enough. A lot of insinuation, accusation, and racial overtones that are not backed by any fact.
Quotehe thinks he can slap another coach and thinks he doesn't have to exercise self-control; thinking because he is black, he's entitled to act in ways that would get any other human being fired.
You have no clue what he thinks, so stop.
And all of this, without even knowing what his consequences will be...
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 21, 2022, 10:58:05 AM
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Ok. And my thinking is that in my dozen or more years on this board you are undoubtably the most narrow and close minded individual with whom I have interacted. If you want to meet tonight at half time and discuss this further PM me before 5:00.
Also. My thanks to valpo04. Late is better than never and I am tired of losing long time posters because of this in fighting.
Quote from: justducky on February 21, 2022, 11:13:29 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 21, 2022, 10:58:05 AM
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
Ok. And my thinking is that in my dozen or more years on this board you are undoubtably the most narrow and close minded individual with whom I have interacted. If you want to meet tonight at half time and discuss this further PM me before 5:00.
Also. My thanks to valpo04. Late is better than never and I am tired of losing long time posters because of this in fighting.
Bravo, Bravo. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Look up Jason Whitlock's column from today.
Just Sayin has a nationally-recognized black columnist on his side.
Sorry justducky.
Quote from: Valpo89 on February 21, 2022, 02:50:02 PM
Look up Jason Whitlock's column from today.
Just Sayin has a nationally-recognized black columnist on his side.
Sorry justducky.
I just finished reading Jason Whitlock's column. And I can tell you that we are definitely on the same page. Closed minds think alike. ;)
But only one of us is a racist according to the modern woke mind expressed by some on this board. Me, because I am white and have no right to criticize a black person even if it is justified and appropriate. Nor can I have an opinion on what might have motivated him. How dare I express an opinion which differs from the Book of the Woke.
Open mind too far and brains fall out.
Here's Jason's tweet which includes a link to his article. Spot-on.
https://twitter.com/WhitlockJason/status/1495803768843157511
This has nothing to do who was right about or who started the scrum. You turned the conversation to race, not me. You deliberately choose "angry black man" & "thug" in your description. My guess is you were someone who defending all of Bobby Knights antics back in the day as well. I would never call someone I've never met a racist. But that comment was.
I've enjoyed participating in this board, but when even this has descended into tribalism and name calling, it's time to take a break. I wish you all the best and I'll see you in October.
It is about race. You don't get it. Read the article by Jason.
He is an angry black man and his actions were thuggish don't you think? Pointing that out is a racist comment? :rotfl:
A 5 game suspension... that almost seems like a reward
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 21, 2022, 06:35:40 PMIt is about race. You don't get it. Read the article by Jason. He is an angry black man and his actions were thuggish don't you think? Pointing that out is a racist comment? :rotfl:
Jason Whitlock is a writer, much like Candace Owens, who get their attention from taking the viewpoint that a substantial number of white people who not think a black person would and thus get a great deal of "see....even the black person agrees with me!" love in these types of cases.
Anyone is free to read and react to whoever they wish but we also need to be careful of what the motive is.
Quote from: NotBryceDrew on February 21, 2022, 06:58:26 PMA 5 game suspension... that almost seems like a reward
By the time I got to the end of today I was expecting a suspension through the regular season which this is.
Quote from: JD24 on February 21, 2022, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 21, 2022, 06:35:40 PMIt is about race. You don't get it. Read the article by Jason. He is an angry black man and his actions were thuggish don't you think? Pointing that out is a racist comment? :rotfl:
Jason Whitlock is a writer, much like Candace Owens, who get their attention from taking the viewpoint that a substantial number of white people who not think a black person would and thus get a great deal of "see....even the black person agrees with me!" love in these types of cases.
Anyone is free to read and react to whoever they wish but we also need to be careful of what the motive is.
So you think Whitlock and Owen are doing schtick to give white people the opportunity to say "even a black person agrees with me.? lol Asinine.
They are both conservatives to the bone and simply have a different (not a white) point of view and they express themselves well much to the chagrin of most black people who are on the liberal plantation and have a monolithic view of race (from a perpetual victim point of view) and government (their mommy and daddy.)
They can think for themselves which you don't appear to give them credit for being able to do.
Why were you expecting only a 5 game suspension? When I saw 5, and then allowed to coach in the conference tourney and any post season tournament I was surprised.
I was expecting more. I mean Howard is supposed to be a leader of young men. He's getting paid millions. This isn't his first time.
How would Valpo handle it if their coach did that?
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 21, 2022, 07:42:52 PM
Why were you expecting only a 5 game suspension? When I saw 5, and then allowed to coach in the conference tourney and any post season tournament I was surprised.
I was expecting more. I mean Howard is supposed to be a leader of young men. He's getting paid millions. This isn't his first time.
How would Valpo handle it if their coach did that?
Probably the same way if the coach were black. If not, they would fire the coach immediately like any reasonable and responsible organization would do.
You make an argument that minority college basketball coaches (who are mostly black) are 'advantaged' because of their race. Data disagrees with this. For the 12 major conferences from the 2003-2004 season to the 2019-2020 season, minority coaches were about 25-30% more likely than White coaches to be dismissed after controlling for many factors including performance, talent, prestige when hired, spending, conference strength, and year. They are also more likely than similar White coaches to be dismissed when spending is lower, conference strength is weaker, they have developed minimal prestige, or when they have initiated strategic change. To say that 'wokeness' has somehow caused Black coaches to be retained when White coaches would have been fired is not true.
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 21, 2022, 09:23:54 PM
You make an argument that minority college basketball coaches (who are mostly black) are 'advantaged' because of their race. Data disagrees with this. For the 12 major conferences from the 2003-2004 season to the 2019-2020 season, minority coaches were about 25-30% more likely than White coaches to be dismissed after controlling for many factors including performance, talent, prestige when hired, spending, conference strength, and year. They are also more likely than similar White coaches to be dismissed when spending is lower, conference strength is weaker, they have developed minimal prestige, or when they have initiated strategic change. To say that 'wokeness' has somehow caused Black coaches to be retained when White coaches would have been fired is not true.
I made no such argument. Straw man. Feel free to whack it a few times if it makes you feel better. You created it.
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 21, 2022, 07:42:20 PMQuote from: JD24 on February 21, 2022, 07:07:52 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on February 21, 2022, 06:35:40 PMIt is about race. You don't get it. Read the article by Jason. He is an angry black man and his actions were thuggish don't you think? Pointing that out is a racist comment? :rotfl:
Jason Whitlock is a writer, much like Candace Owens, who get their attention from taking the viewpoint that a substantial number of white people who not think a black person would and thus get a great deal of "see....even the black person agrees with me!" love in these types of cases. Anyone is free to read and react to whoever they wish but we also need to be careful of what the motive is.
So you think Whitlock and Owen are doing schtick to give white people the opportunity to say "even a black person agrees with me.? lol Asinine. They are both conservatives to the bone and simply have a different (not a white) point of view and they express themselves well much to the chagrin of most black people who are on the liberal plantation and have a monolithic view of race (from a perpetual victim point of view) and government (their mommy and daddy.) They can think for themselves which you don't appear to give them credit for being able to do.
Sure they do.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 21, 2022, 07:42:52 PMWhy were you expecting only a 5 game suspension? When I saw 5, and then allowed to coach in the conference tourney and any post season tournament I was surprised. I was expecting more. I mean Howard is supposed to be a leader of young men. He's getting paid millions. This isn't his first time. How would Valpo handle it if their coach did that?
Unlike justsayin', I believe the suspension is probably weighted because of who Juwan Howard is and not the color of his skin. Dealing with a school icon and icon of the sport is going to be more difficult that another guy who doesn't have the same background.
I don't opine that this is the right way to do it but it is the way it is.
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 21, 2022, 09:35:47 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 21, 2022, 09:23:54 PM
You make an argument that minority college basketball coaches (who are mostly black) are 'advantaged' because of their race. Data disagrees with this. For the 12 major conferences from the 2003-2004 season to the 2019-2020 season, minority coaches were about 25-30% more likely than White coaches to be dismissed after controlling for many factors including performance, talent, prestige when hired, spending, conference strength, and year. They are also more likely than similar White coaches to be dismissed when spending is lower, conference strength is weaker, they have developed minimal prestige, or when they have initiated strategic change. To say that 'wokeness' has somehow caused Black coaches to be retained when White coaches would have been fired is not true.
I made no such argument. Straw man. Feel free to whack it a few times if it makes you feel better. You created it.
You said that "it is about race" (see above). What does that mean other than Black coaches are advantaged, because a White coach who did what Howard did would immediately be fired?
I agree wholeheartedly with justducky's comments that "you are undoubtably the most narrow and close minded individual with whom I have interacted (on this board)"
Keep beating up on that straw man. lol
I told myself I was going to stay out of this topic but I can't anymore. If you wanted to say that Juwan Howard showed weakness and failed in his role as a leader of young men that's one thing. If you wanted to say that he deserves to be fired and that anything less is getting off easy that's fine too. All valid and fair points. The fact that he hasn't been fired offends your sensibilities and hurts your feelings. That's valid. I agree he should have been fired especially since he had a prior dustup with Mark Turgeon of Maryland. But as many on your side of the political aisle like to say: "Facts don't care about your feelings." Hurt feelings and offended sensibilities are not a substitute for an actual argument and that is all you have brought to the table with very little substance beyond that. Here's the thing: to insinuate without facts or basis that his punishment is light because he is black isn't just stupid and childish. It's utterly racist. Additionally it isn't even true. Here are some facts: In addition to the very prominent issues surrounding Bob Knight that were covered up for DECADES at IU Gregg Marshall got away with rampant player abuse for YEARS at Wichita State. He is white. Mike Rice got away with it as well at Rutgers for awhile before finally being fired. Also white. Jimmy Patsos got fired at Siena after getting away with player abuse for awhile. He is also white. Are you sensing a theme yet? All of these coaches were white. All of them did the same thing or worse than Howard. None of them were immediately fired. So miss me with that "He would have been immediately fired if he were white BS. It's not true and is a strawman of your own making. You create a strawman and then decry others for creating a strawman. Seems pretty hypocritical to me but you do you I guess. Moreover it flies in the face of the usual state of the justice system in this country where black offenders often receive harsher sentences than white offenders for the same crime. This kind of crap that somehow occasionally finds its way onto this board along with the constant losing and poor performance from the program are huge reasons I don't post nearly as much on this board anymore. He is not getting treated any differently than most coaches who are caught doing something like this to be honest. It says far more about the state of college athletics and the way coaches are treated regardless of race than it does about race. As much as you want to make this a race issue and claim victimhood and persecution for yourself (which I thought was something you were against doing but what do I know?) it just doesn't wash when the facts are considered. If you want to have a discussion about the culture of collegiate athletics or athletics in general and why this kind of behavior is excused and tolerated to the degree that it is you will find much agreement and success making that argument because that is truly the issue here. This is a sports culture problem much more than it is a race problem. We can and should be having that conversation about the culture of athletics but take this race baiting crap to the Off Topic board where it belongs. The fact that we even have a section at all where people can post this kind of crap is embarrassing in and of itself for a basketball\sports forum but whatever. Free speech and all that I guess. But why can't you keep it to the off-topic board which gets far less traffic and not on the most visited frontward facing section: the basketball discussion board? Have any of you (especially those of you who insinuate that this is in any way a race issue when it clearly isn't outside of your own twisted worldview considered how this looks to a potential recruit or their family if they were to read this? Do you think that would make them want to come to Valpo or do you think it makes us look like a bunch of backward racists? What do you think a potential recruit is going to believe the values of this University are if they read this? That's not the University I attended. Those aren't the values my professors espoused and they should not be tolerated on this board. Take your bigotry and white fragility someplace else. That's all I'm going to say on the matter. This is going to be my final post for awhile on this board. Possibly forever if this is the kind of crap that is going to be posted repeatedly.
We'll, you have Juwaan Howard, and rotate 180 degrees you have Matt Lottich.
On a positive note, how are the USC Trojans doing? A huge 4 game stand coming up against Duckzilla, the Bears, Zona, and the Ruins...and once again the Big 10 looks overhyped and the conference of champions is getting no love. It is time to follow the wisdom of Walton baby!
I think that UCLA, USC and Arizona are all going to be among the strongest teams in this year's tourney. There does seem to be a pretty big falloff after that, which is likely reducing strength of schedule and causing computer rankings to be lower.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 22, 2022, 06:32:23 AMWe'll, you have Juwaan Howard, and rotate 180 degrees you have Matt Lottich. On a positive note, how are the USC Trojans doing? A huge 4 game stand coming up against Duckzilla, the Bears, Zona, and the Ruins...and once again the Big 10 looks overhyped and the conference of champions is getting no love. It is time to follow the wisdom of Walton baby!
Is Mobley back?
yep
so if USC wins their next 4, you have to consider then Top 10- and at the minimum a 3 seed.
I know this is football related but still it's very interesting. I wonder what this will do to both conference's future autobids. I know this is similar to the ASUN-WAC agreement of this past year (speaking of which the ASUN really needs to get on the stick about adding some football members because I think the WAC has enough starting next year where they don't need the ASun. I wonder how these conferences will work to restore their autobids in football.
http://ovcsports.com/news/2022/2/22/big-south-conference-and-ovc-announce-football-agreement.aspx
NC A&T to the CAA. I'm a bit surprised by this considering that I heard although it was message board speculation and nothing concrete that one of the reasons A&T left the MEAC for the Big South was travel costs and now the travel costs are going to be much higher in the CAA.Hopefully Howard is next as they definitely deserve an invite. Logistically I think the next school will have to be a non football school to even things up in the CAA but maybe they have room for Howard assuming they want an invite. They do seem incredibly committed to the MEAC which is commendable but it would be a great step up for the Bison if they were able to move.
https://caasports.com/news/2022/2/22/football-caa-welcomes-north-carolina-a-t-as-newest-member-of-the-conference.aspx
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 21, 2022, 08:05:34 AM
"Because he's black"? Are you kidding me? It's bad enough that thought entered your head. Doubly bad you thought it worthy of putting on here.
I agree they'll keep him, but they'll keep him because he wins and he's an alum. This is the kind of s*** that parents of recruits read on our board and say "No thanks".
To your point, this is a raindrop in an ocean compared to the potential damage caused to the program by the incessant trashing of our head coach by people on this very same board - calling for his resignation, praying for someone to buyout his contract, acting like the world came to an end when we found out his contract goes through 2025, comparing him unfavorably to every other coach in the league by name, labeling his offensive and defensive schemes as lacking creativity, accusing him of not knowing how to coach players up, blaming every player failure on the coach, questioning his starting and substitution patterns, accusing him of running players off, he coddles his favorites, he's too easy, he's not a player's coach, we should have done a national search, he's never been a head coach before albeit there are tons of successful first time head coaches in D-1 over the years, blaming him because we can't win when we have injured players, didn't he ever hear of "next man up" and other grade school-level cliches, even blaming him for having so many injured players every year, endless blah, blah, blah.
How ironic is it that two of Lottich's biggest trashers (you know who you are) are on record a few posts up feigning shock that someone would dare say something that might offend or alienate an outsider. Give me a freaking break. The hypocricy is absolutely mind blowing. Finally, let me make something perfectly clear. I'm glad politics has been removed from the board. I'm probably as guilty of abusing it an anyone on the board. I'm glad the tempation has been removed. I also fully agree that the Howard postgame incident was totally divisive and could be hurtful to many people. Having said that, the destructive nonsense on this board doesn't stop there, not by a longshot. In fact, it only starts there. This would be the perfect time for our resident coach and player trashers to stop posting poison for our recruits and potential recruits and their families to read.
Quote from: wh on February 23, 2022, 04:58:06 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 21, 2022, 08:05:34 AM
"Because he's black"? Are you kidding me? It's bad enough that thought entered your head. Doubly bad you thought it worthy of putting on here.
I agree they'll keep him, but they'll keep him because he wins and he's an alum. This is the kind of s*** that parents of recruits read on our board and say "No thanks".
To your point, this is a raindrop in an ocean compared to the potential damage caused to the program by the incessant trashing of our head coach by people on this very same board - calling for his resignation, praying for someone to buyout his contract, acting like the world came to an end when we found out his contract goes through 2025, comparing him unfavorably to every other coach in the league by name, labeling his offensive and defensive schemes as lacking creativity, accusing him of not knowing how to coach players up, blaming every player failure on the coach, questioning his starting and substitution patterns, accusing him of running players off, he coddles his favorites, he's too easy, he's not a player's coach, we should have done a national search, he's never been a head coach before albeit there are tons of successful first time head coaches in D-1 over the years, blaming him because we can't win when we have injured players, didn't he ever hear of "next man up" and other grade school-level cliches, even blaming him for having so many injured players every year, endless blah, blah, blah.
How ironic is it that two of Lottich's biggest trashers (you know who you are) are on record a few posts up feigning shock that someone would dare say something that might offend or alienate an outsider. Give me a freaking break. The hypocricy is absolutely mind blowing. Finally, let me make something perfectly clear. I'm glad politics has been removed from the board. I'm probably as guilty of abusing it an anyone on the board. I'm glad the tempation has been removed. I also fully agree that the Howard postgame incident for totally divisive and could be hurtful to many people. Having said that, the destructive nonsense on this board doesn't stop there, not by a longshot. In fact, it only starts there. This would be the perfect time for our resident coach and player trashers to stop posting poison for our recruits and potential recruits and their families to read.
Not to sidetrack this thread any further, but I do want to acknowledge a very good point here.
This isn't just about politics. Now is a perfect time for all of us to reflect and think about how we interact with each other, and how we can respectfully comment on the various topics discussed here. We can disagree or voice displeasure or what have you while maintaining a respectful and constructive tone.
We should always be mindful of the open and public nature of this forum. We should think about who may read it, and what they may take away from it. The last thing ANY of us want is to be perceived negatively, or to cast our school, and our support for Valpo in a negative light.
Now back to the topic...
timeout - are you saying that we cannot be critical of actions made by Valparaiso University?
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 24, 2022, 11:15:23 AM
timeout - are you saying that we cannot be critical of actions made by Valparaiso University?
Nope. I simply suggested...
Quote from: valpo04 on February 24, 2022, 08:47:52 AMNow is a perfect time for all of us to reflect and think about how we interact with each other, and how we can respectfully comment on the various topics discussed here. We can disagree or voice displeasure or what have you while maintaining a respectful and constructive tone.
There is a huge difference between questioning the direction of the program and outright racism or the defense thereof but whatever. If you're going to equate these two things that's wholly on you. But if the forum would be a better place if we only posted glowing opinions of Matt Lottich and the direction of the program then fine. Since I can't do that in good conscience because it would be lying I guess I'll have to be quiet and take a break until his tenure ends or he finally figures out how to win in this league whichever comes first. I genuinely don't want to hurt the program. Of course the inconsistency and struggle of the Lottich era hasn't done the program any favors but you're right. Infighting among a fanbase isn't a good look and I'm not going to contribute to it anymore. I wish Valpo only the best regardless of who is coaching but I'm out for awhile. Enjoy your echo chamber.
Of course we want to respect each other, and the political crap was going overboard. Their are scunbag and clowns on both sides of the political spectrum. I just want to have a critical conversation and not have a board constantly drinking the brown and gold kool aid without addressing gaps. If I think Valpo is too cheap to make a move I think it is fair to say it. If Lottich is not up for the job it should be addressed.
Also, it is truly hurtful that this board is not giving USC and the conference of champions deserved respect. They are a conference proudly representing our country and has excelled in academics, athletics and advancements in making this world better. Why all the hate? I am going back my Manhattan Beach decored safe space!
Jomboy always has a good breakdown of a situation:
I firmly believe that in these situations, no disciplinary actions should ever be taken until after a mandatory review of a Jomboy breakdown.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 25, 2022, 07:23:15 AMOf course we want to respect each other, and the political crap was going overboard. Their are scunbag and clowns on both sides of the political spectrum. I just want to have a critical conversation and not have a board constantly drinking the brown and gold kool aid without addressing gaps. If I think Valpo is too cheap to make a move I think it is fair to say it. If Lottich is not up for the job it should be addressed. Also, it is truly hurtful that this board is not giving USC and the conference of champions deserved respect. They are a conference proudly representing our country and has excelled in academics, athletics and advancements in making this world better. Why all the hate? I am going back my Manhattan Beach decored safe space!
The Bruins took a header last night.
What a difference a year makes. Last year, Oregon State faced Houston and played them close in Elite 8 and lost by 6. This year they are 3-23 but lost to USC in 2ot last night. totally insane.
That being said, I would take the Beavs over Valpo this year.
Big matchup as USC faces Duckzilla late tonight.
The conference of champions is tougher than what the rankings geeks are showing. Oregon and Colorado are making a case to get a bid for the tournament. I would also take the top 3 PAC 12 teams - Arizona, USC and UCLA - over any top 3 of any conference.
Huge win for USC against Duckzilla last night as they get ready to face Zona on Tuesday.
HUGE game tonight! Zona visits USC
Oregon's problem is that they have lost really bad several times: Arizona State by 24, BYU by 32, Cal by 14. Colorado is a better bet than Oregon, especially after beating Arizona.
Arizona is awesome and definitely a team that can win it all. Beautifully coached. USC is not there yet.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 01, 2022, 04:01:07 PMOregon's problem is that they have lost really bad several times: Arizona State by 24, BYU by 32, Cal by 14. Colorado is a better bet than Oregon, especially after beating Arizona.
First look at Lunardi for me...it's a waste before now...has Oregon one of last four out and Colorado nowhere to be seen.
As an aside, he currently has Loyola on the same line as Oregon. He's got NI as the winner in the MVC tourney and one bid.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 02, 2022, 09:07:29 AMArizona is awesome and definitely a team that can win it all. Beautifully coached. USC is not there yet.
Arizona has a great team and is definitely one of the teams who could take it all. Problem is, there may be nearly a dozen who can rightfully make that claim.
Agreed. This year is a free for all.
Oregon losing by 14 late at Washington (who is a .500 team). There are few teams as inconsistent as Oregon.
I thought Colorado had a good shot at the tournament, but I did not look at their NET (which is 75). Pac 12 will be a three bid conference...with three really strong teams getting those bids. Any of those three could make the Final 4.
The conference of champions finale between Arizona and UCLA was outstanding. So much talent and tempo and defense! I was not sure if Arizona was a serious final four contender, well I stand corrected.
OK, so before the bracket is released, I'll put out my proposal for at large bids.
To get an at large bid, a team needs to meet at least one of the three criteria:
1) Be in the top 25 of the USA/Coaches or AP Poll.
2) Have a 0.500 record in conference play.
3) Make it to the conference tournament championship game, not necessarily win the title game.
In practice, this would mean a team like Michigan is eligible for an at-large bid, Texas A&M is also eligible, yet Indiana is not. It would reward good play in the conference season, and reward teams making a run to the conference tourney.
A few quick bracket notes:
Murray State (7) receives a better seed than Loyola (10). Despite winning the Horizon League tourney, Wright State receives no respect and gets a 16 seed, so is placed in a First Four play-in game; however, if they win that match, they are guaranteed two shares for the HL. Teams Valparaiso fans can cheer other than Loyola for MVC tournament shares and Murray State as bringing prestige to the MVC: Gonzaga (Roger Powell), Baylor (Scott Drew), Ohio State (Jake Diebler), and Boise State (Lexus Williams). Just three Indiana teams this year: Purdue, Notre Dame, and Indiana (the last two as part of First Four play-in games). Teams from which Valpo players transferred: Wisconsin (3), Seton Hall (7), and Michigan State (8). None of the Valpo players who transferred elsewhere are dancing.
Quote from: valpopal on March 13, 2022, 06:18:32 PM
A few quick bracket notes:
Murray State (7) receives a better seed than Loyola (10). Despite winning the Horizon League tourney, Wright State receives no respect and gets a 16 seed, so is placed in a First Four play-in game; however, if they win that match, they are guaranteed two shares for the HL. Teams Valparaiso fans can cheer other than Loyola for MVC tournament shares and Murray State as bringing prestige to the MVC: Gonzaga (Roger Powell), Baylor (Scott Drew), Ohio State (Jake Diebler), and Boise State (Lexus Williams). Just three Indiana teams this year: Purdue, Notre Dame, and Indiana (the last two as part of First Four play-in games). Teams from which Valpo players transferred: Wisconsin (3), Seton Hall (7), and Michigan State (8). None of the Valpo players who transferred elsewhere are dancing.
Additional NIT notes, games to watch:
Interesting match-ups include Belmont vs Vanderbilt, UNI vs St. Louis, and Missouri State vs Oklahoma (with Porter Moser); unfortunately, Vanderbilt, St. Louis, and Oklahoma all get home court advantage.
On the women's side I'm surprised Drake got a WNIT bid; they have been very hot and cold this season. BUT it does show the importance of playing well in the nonconference... we shot ourselves in the foot
Too many truck stop schools in the tournament
Just a few notes relative to conference performance so far in the tournament as of the round of 32 (not all, just a sample. I did this pretty fast, so maybe I missed one or two).
Conference Teams In Teams Remaining Record So Far
Big 10 9 6 7-3
Big 12 6 6 6-0
ACC 5 4 5-1
Big East 6 3 3-3
SEC 6 3 3-3
PAC 12 3 2 2-1
MWC 4 0 0-4
I like to look at the performance at the round of 32 stage - after that, things get much more difficult as teams end up playing the very top teams: For example, teams run into an Arizona or Gonzaga, and most teams will struggle against them so hard to pin that on the conference. Notably, the Big East, SEC and MWC have substantially underperformed. The Big 12, Big 10 and ACC have performed well.