What are the requirements to be invited to the NIT or CBI? Will we get an invite? How many HL teams will still by playing after their HL tournament run is complete?
We have no chance at the NIT, as our RPI is way too low without any signature victories. We only have a chance at the CBI and/or CIT, and it would help if we win at least 2 more games
The NIT gives auto bids to the regular season conference champion of each conference (minus the IVY League where the winner goes to the NCAAs automatically),if the regular season champion doesn't win their conference tourney, then it's the top RPI teams that missed out on an at-large NCAA bid. Most mid-majors end up buying in to the CIT or CBI, which is equivalent to bribing themselves into a tourney.
Quote from: valpotx on March 04, 2014, 11:19:24 AM
We have no chance at the NIT, as our RPI is way too low without any signature victories. We only have a chance at the CBI and/or CIT, and it would help if we win at least 2 more games
That's about my feeling too. Winning two games might be necessary, winning three games would sure help.
Quote from: valporun on March 04, 2014, 12:22:06 PM
The NIT gives auto bids to the regular season conference champion of each conference (minus the IVY League where the winner goes to the NCAAs automatically),if the regular season champion doesn't win their conference tourney, then it's the top RPI teams that missed out on an at-large NCAA bid. Most mid-majors end up buying in to the CIT or CBI, which is equivalent to bribing themselves into a tourney.
Not literally "top RPI", I don't think. But, whatever flavor of "best teams remaining/best teams we can get" they, or their selection committee, comes up with. In principle the CIT and CBI try to compete with the NIT, but in practice it seems like they get the 3rd tier teams. The CIT, specifically, has a midmajor mission.
Buying in may be the wrinkle. If we're willing to provide a sufficient financial guarantee to the tournament organizers, that changes the picture. Our current record, or with a UIC win, might already be enough.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 04, 2014, 10:13:03 AM
What are the requirements to be invited to the NIT or CBI?
Will we get an invite?
How many HL teams will still by playing after their HL tournament run is complete?
For NIT:
1. They both have a selection committee. The CIT has more of a pay-for-play model that allows you to buy home games. The CIT is more of a joke, and only includes mid majors. RPI may influence selection committee, but it's NOT true that the NIT takes the highest remaining RPI schools.
2. NIT - no chance. We are unlikely to get invited to CBI either, but it's possible with a couple wins. I don't believe you can completely buy your way into the CIT - there's still an invitation process, they claim, but schools like High Point (RPI 249) made it last year. There's a lot of schools that turn down both CBI and CIT.
3. Assuming GB wins - CSU has a good chance at NIT. This really depends on other schools winning regular season and conference tourneys. If you win the regular season, you are guaranteed an NIT bid. If enough schools crap out in their conf tourneys, the NIT pool shrinks and CSU could end up in CBI or CIT. I would imagine YSU, Detroit, and UIC are done for sure, and WSU, Valpo, Oakland, and Wright State all could end up in the CIT... they all have similar resumes.
Maybe Valpo learned that the CIT isn't a good idea (ask wh his opinions on this), and its "road CBI game to get the freshmen some experience" or bust.
agibson, the top RPI teams that missed an at-large bid get a favorable look by the NIT committee, especially since most of those are 16-18 win teams from the top conferences that blew it in their conference tourneys. Valpo only gets an NIT bid in the years where they just missed out on the NCAA bid in the conference championship. This year, if they choose, they'll be a consideration by the CIT or CBI.
The success of the program next year and beyond will depend in large part on the development of this year's freshman quintet. The more post season tournament experience of any kind the better.
Quote from: wh on March 04, 2014, 01:27:33 PMThe more post season tournament experience of any kind the better.
erm. given what I'm about to immortalize, you MAY want to hedge this bet.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 04, 2014, 01:31:45 PM
Quote from: wh on March 04, 2014, 01:27:33 PMThe more post season tournament experience of any kind the better.
erm. given what I'm about to immortalize, you MAY want to hedge this bet.
Building to a crescendo...the suspense is killing me. ;)
Quote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 01:23:18 PMWSU, Valpo, Oakland, and Wright State all could end up in the CIT...
I really think it won't "shock" anybody when Wichita St makes the NCAA tourney.
Never let a good typo lie!!!!!! ;D
Quote from: wh on March 04, 2014, 01:27:33 PMThe success of the program next year and beyond will depend in large part on the development of this year's freshman quintet. The more post season tournament experience of any kind the better.
I think that's an excellent point.
Quote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 01:44:09 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 01:23:18 PMWSU, Valpo, Oakland, and Wright State all could end up in the CIT...
I really think it won't "shock" anybody when Wichita St makes the NCAA tourney.
Never let a good typo lie!!!!!! ;D
WSU could apply to Washington State and Weber State as well, but I'm obviously implying the Wright one.
Quote from: wh on March 04, 2014, 01:42:12 PMBuilding to a crescendo...the suspense is killing me.
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1265.msg43035#msg43035 (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1265.msg43035#msg43035)
Quote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 01:56:02 PMQuote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 01:44:09 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 01:23:18 PMWSU, Valpo, Oakland, and Wright State all could end up in the CIT...
I really think it won't "shock" anybody when Wichita St makes the NCAA tourney. Never let a good typo lie!!!!!! ;D
WSU could apply to Washington State and Weber State as well, but I'm obviously implying the Wright one.
So that means there would be 2 Wright teams in the CIT? Now that would be a "Shocker!"
Quote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 02:41:17 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 01:56:02 PMQuote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 01:44:09 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 01:23:18 PMWSU, Valpo, Oakland, and Wright State all could end up in the CIT...
I really think it won't "shock" anybody when Wichita St makes the NCAA tourney. Never let a good typo lie!!!!!! ;D
WSU could apply to Washington State and Weber State as well, but I'm obviously implying the Wright one.
So that means there would be 2 Wright teams in the CIT? Now that would be a "Shocker!"
Oh now I get it...
Yup definitely meant UWM.
Quote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 02:44:48 PMQuote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 02:41:17 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 01:56:02 PMQuote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 01:44:09 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 04, 2014, 01:23:18 PMWSU, Valpo, Oakland, and Wright State all could end up in the CIT...
I really think it won't "shock" anybody when Wichita St makes the NCAA tourney. Never let a good typo lie!!!!!! ;D
WSU could apply to Washington State and Weber State as well, but I'm obviously implying the Wright one.
So that means there would be 2 Wright teams in the CIT? Now that would be a "Shocker!"
Oh now I get it... Yup definitely meant UWM.
It's a tough way to subtly point out a typo and try and drag some, but little, humor out of the situation. But it's not a shocker coming from me.
Falling to the #4 seed wasn't ideal, but it does allow Valpo to add two more to the win column (UIC tonight and UWM Friday). Even if they can't beat GB on Saturday, think they'd be a lock for the CIT.
As for the cost associated with playing in a tourney like the CIT, is there any chance the HL opens the purse strings and helps Valpo out a bit? Seems like they should, as the additional exposure Valpo could get by participating and advancing would definitely help out the league.
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 04, 2014, 09:16:00 PM
Falling to the #4 seed wasn't ideal, but it does allow Valpo to add two more to the win column (UIC tonight and UWM Friday). Even if they can't beat GB on Saturday, think they'd be a lock for the CIT.
As for the cost associated with playing in a tourney like the CIT, is there any chance the HL opens the purse strings and helps Valpo out a bit? Seems like they should, as the additional exposure Valpo could get by participating and advancing would definitely help out the league.
(http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/nwitimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/89/2899d1db-439a-5071-b5f2-2562e7916c91/4d817de996a7e.preview-620.jpg)
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/27/27d3fd01818c7984188fba4dbdbc20ff1d9b50f0daae956f96d36bd510f582a0.jpg)
Little known piece of trivia about the VU-Iona game... In the past 27 years, I've missed a total of 10 games. Vu's record in those games is 9-1. That was the only loss I missed... RLH announced that game for me.
I agree that getting any post-season experience would be a positive for this group.... But I would really like to Host Kampe next Tuesday night. I believe I can fit that into my schedule.
How awesome would that be, although the odds are pretty slim that either one of us will still be playing. I wonder if a 4th seed or lower ever made it to the championship game under the current format? I'm not sure how to find that out without a lot of year-by-year digging.
Under current format (No. 1 gets double bye and hosts), the regular-season champion has made the title game every year.
Quote from: wh on March 06, 2014, 10:22:30 AM
How awesome would that be, although the odds are pretty slim that either one of us will still be playing. I wonder if a 4th seed or lower ever made it to the championship game under the current format? I'm not sure how to find that out without a lot of year-by-year digging.
No four seed or lower has ever made the championship in the 11 seasons ('02-'03 to present) of the double-bye format.
#1 vs. #2 has happened 8 times
#1 vs. #3 has happened 3 times
#1 has won 6 times
#2 has won 3 times
#3 has won 2 times (CSU in '09 and UDM in '12)
Do you think they will change the current format since Butler is gone? Butler was a big player in changing the format and wanted to give a significate advantage the best team so that our best resprestative was in the NCAA instead of a "Southern Utah" who upset the #1.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 06, 2014, 10:56:32 AM
Do you think they will change the current format since Butler is gone? Butler was a big player in changing the format and wanted to give a significate advantage the best team so that our best resprestative was in the NCAA instead of a "Southern Utah" who upset the #1.
No and actually other conferences are looking at this for their format (per chef). The idea is to get your best team to the NCAAs with the hope that team would have the best chance of success. That hasn't/won't change.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 06, 2014, 10:56:32 AMDo you think they will change the current format since Butler is gone? Butler was a big player in changing the format and wanted to give a significate advantage the best team so that our best resprestative was in the NCAA instead of a "Southern Utah" who upset the #1.
Protecting the top two seeds are even more essential now that Butler is gone. Butler was able to be an at-large team, so there was little need to protect them during their prime.
You want to avoid having a 15-16 seed in the tourney, because success rate is as follows...
16: 0%
15: 3.8%
14: 15%
13: 21.1%
12: 33.6%
So for the Horizon League to get more money, they need to have a team do well in the tournament. Guiding your top teams (double byes, making their opponents play back-to-back days) helps ensure the best teams get in, and helps avoid the Horizon League sending a 15-16 seed to the tourney each year. Valpo, having their best RPI ever last year, had two home games, which definitely helped them win the championship. Imagine a neutral court setup where it was Green Bay vs Wright State in the championship game. Can you say 15-16 seed? Valpo was by far the best team in the conference and had a shoe-in for a 13 seed (don't get me started on the selection committee screwing us over Montana for geographical reasons).
The Horizon League was the first conferences to
really protect their top teams, and conferences have adopted similar formats:
WCC - 2012 first round byes
Sun Belt - 2014 neutral site double byes
Southland - 2013 neutral site double byes
OVC - 2011 neutral site double byes
MAC - 2012 triple byes
The double byes, forcing back to back games against a team that hasn't played in a week, and hosting on campus sites might be a
bit excessive, but it has worked (outside of 2012 where Detroit won and was a 15 seed). I guess the argument against it would be that the 1 and 2 seeds would win in any format, and the league doesn't need to protect the top seeds. If you look at mid major conferences that do not do any protecting, their 1 and 2 seeds end up winning anyways, and they gain a bit better RPI from 4 wins at neutral sites than 2 wins at home.
Quote from: vu72 on March 06, 2014, 11:59:34 AMQuote from: oklahomamick on March 06, 2014, 10:56:32 AMDo you think they will change the current format since Butler is gone? Butler was a big player in changing the format and wanted to give a significate advantage the best team so that our best resprestative was in the NCAA instead of a "Southern Utah" who upset the #1.
QuoteNo and actually other conferences are looking at this for their format (per chef). The idea is to get your best team to the NCAAs with the hope that team would have the best chance of success. That hasn't/won't change.
That double bye format in the HL tourney is pretty much a LeCrone thing. Butler benefitted from the format a lot but that was because LeCrone wanted the best team to represent the conference and that was usually the first place team during the regular season. '72 is correct, it won't be changing while LeCrone is commissioner.
BTW, did you see the commissioner at the Cleve St game? I saw him walking up the stairs to the area where the TV cameras are located behind the chairbacks.
LeCrone was in town watching Purdue calumet as a possible addition to the HL.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 06, 2014, 09:50:18 PMLeCrone was in town watching Purdue calumet as a possible addition to the HL.
Where did you hear that? I really hope Purdue Calumet isn't being considered by the HL. They would have a huge jump to NCAA Div. I. They are currently NAIA. Don't you have to have at least a 4,000 seat arena to be in the HL? If you want to see a HS gym take a look at Purdue-Cal's Fitness & Recreation Center. The FRC.
http://www.purduecalsports.com/athletics/frc/ (http://www.purduecalsports.com/athletics/frc/)
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 06, 2014, 09:50:18 PMLeCrone was in town watching Purdue calumet as a possible addition to the HL.
i will believe it until jimmy from pantherU confirms
But his sources are solid :o
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 06, 2014, 10:32:21 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 06, 2014, 09:50:18 PMLeCrone was in town watching Purdue calumet as a possible addition to the HL.
i will believe it until jimmy from pantherU confirms
Done. Deal.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Quote from: a3uge on March 06, 2014, 10:47:36 PMDone. Deal.
This is old news, but I was told to keep it under my hat and did so successfully. Well maybe not, but from now on I am never and I repeat never going to entrust confidential information with Oklahomamick again!
LeCrone made an exception to 5,000 seat capacity gym with Oakland and has seen the positive rivalry between Detroit schools. He's going for the same idea as he pursues Purdue calumet.
Quote from: zvillehaze link=topic=1781.msg43174#msg43174
No four seed or lower has ever made the championship in the 11 seasons ('02-'03 to present) of the double-bye format.
#1 vs. #2 has happened 8 times
#1 vs. #3 has happened 3 times
#1 has won 6 times
#2 has won 3 times
#3 has won 2 times (CSU in '09 and UDM in '12)
Maybe no #4 seed has done it, but those two #3's give some hope.
They both had to win four games, much as we do, right? (With maybe a difference in the semi-final pairing?)
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 07, 2014, 07:10:50 AMHe's going for the same idea as he pursues Purdue calumet.
Erm...wait...this wasn't a joke? Because clearly everyone who read that should have taken it thus.
Yikes.
(http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2b/2bb06ffa_sure-if-serious-i-am-not.jpeg)
Quote from: agibson on March 07, 2014, 09:23:40 AM
Quote from: zvillehaze link=topic=1781.msg43174#msg43174
No four seed or lower has ever made the championship in the 11 seasons ('02-'03 to present) of the double-bye format.
#1 vs. #2 has happened 8 times
#1 vs. #3 has happened 3 times
#1 has won 6 times
#2 has won 3 times
#3 has won 2 times (CSU in '09 and UDM in '12)
Maybe no #4 seed has done it, but those two #3's give some hope.
They both had to win four games, much as we do, right? (With maybe a difference in the semi-final pairing?)
Correct. Both CSU in '09 and Detroit in '12 had to win 4 games, but didn't face the #1 until the finals.
No HL home game for us as Wrong State takes out Darth Bader and the Grizz' by a millenium. So, given the three choices left... where do we want to play on Tuesday? Dayton, Cleveland or Green Bay?
Quote from: talksalot on March 07, 2014, 08:24:07 PM
No HL home game for us as Wrong State takes out Darth Bader and the Grizz' by a millenium. So, given the three choices left... where do we want to play on Tuesday? Dayton, Cleveland or Green Bay?
Well it definitely won't be Green Bay, since if we win tomorrow it'll go to the highest remaining seed.
I think Dayton would be much better for us. Wright State is more beatable than Cleveland State.
Quote from: talksalot on March 07, 2014, 08:24:07 PM
No HL home game for us as Wrong State takes out Darth Bader and the Grizz' by a millenium. So, given the three choices left... where do we want to play on Tuesday? Dayton, Cleveland or Green Bay?
I assume they will be in Valpo cleaning out their basketball lockers on Tuesday night wishing they had hustled more against a weak UWM team that will get pounded by Green Bay. I don't see a post season game either.
Apparently Todd was saying postgame that they expect a CIT invite.
That's where this is coming from.
And I think we can agree that we all need this taste out of our mouths.
If we received a CIT bid, even if we buy a home game, it might be worth it to our young guys. Hopefully they take it more seriously than we did a few years back.
Sometimes it is best to just end the pain. However a post season game would be great for this young team. ...
They don't deserve another game. As I've said, turning down a game might show the young players that poor play and lack of effort will not be rewarded. But if they do decide to play in some tournament then they should bench the seniors plus Carter and play the underclassmen as giving them experience is the only reason to do it at all.
Quote from: nkvu on March 08, 2014, 01:03:30 AM
They don't deserve another game. As I've said, turning down a game might show the young players that poor play and lack of effort will not be rewarded. But if they do decide to play in some tournament then they should bench the seniors plus Carter and play the underclassmen as giving them experience is the only reason to do it at all.
I've seen lots of bad this year, but "lack of effort" is not on my list, not by a long shot.
Fast Forward to Senior Night, 2017. Bryce says: These guys can be proud of the banners they've added to the rafters...one for every year they've been here... Let's bring up the Conference POY, Tournament MVP.___________________.
From the NWI Times
Quote
"We'll meet with the players tomorrow [today] and see where they're at," Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew said. "If the opportunity presents itself, as a coach, I'd love to play some more games this season."
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/crusaders-bounced-from-horizon-league-tournament/article_ba0adcf1-503f-567e-9059-73d9b0fbd824.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/crusaders-bounced-from-horizon-league-tournament/article_ba0adcf1-503f-567e-9059-73d9b0fbd824.html)
First round games are scheduled for March 18-19.
Looking at last year's tournament
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_CollegeInsider.com_Postseason_Tournament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_CollegeInsider.com_Postseason_Tournament)
we might be on the weaker end of things.
But, Bradley, Fairfield, Green Bay, Hartford, Oakland, maybe especially North Dakota, Youngstown, and UIC, might give us some hope.
I'd forgotten how many teams we had in this thing last year. Three Horizon League teams plus Oakland!
Quote from: agibson on March 08, 2014, 01:45:08 PMBut, Bradley, Fairfield, Green Bay, Hartford, Oakland, maybe especially North Dakota, Youngstown, and UIC, might give us some hope. I'd forgotten how many teams we had in this thing last year. Three Horizon League teams plus Oakland!
I had forgotten how much the CIT has to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get enough teams in it's tournament. I guess Valpo would qualify for a CIT bid. Valpo would probably be the bottom of the barrel. That isn't too much to brag about.
Hey, Wright State went on a run in it last year, and now look at them! They only lost to a couple horrible teams last fall as a result.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 08, 2014, 03:26:40 PM
Hey, Wright State went on a run in it last year, and now look at them! They only lost to a couple horrible teams last fall as a result.
Had they won a couple more, the North Carolina A&T game may have ended up differently.
I think Valpo pretty much met expectations this year. The upper class talent is not there this year, and if they learned much from this season, then this is a good thing. As for the CIT or not, so what?
In general, we should expect more from this team than a CIT and not get hungup unless if they participate in it or not. However, playing a local team like DePaul or Northwestern would be fun.
Not in the CIT... that's almost 100% Mid-Major... Study the Summit / MAC / MVC / MAAC / OVC for a possible opponent..
Northern Iowa
Illinois State
IPFW
S Dakota State
Kent State
Eastern Michigan
Morehead St
Canisius
Siena
Not exactly exciting.