http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24495020/virginia-tech-targeting-marquettes-buzz-williams-to-be-next-coach (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24495020/virginia-tech-targeting-marquettes-buzz-williams-to-be-next-coach)
According to CBS, Ben Howland appears to be a strong candidate for the opening. However, this is the first opening over the past few seasons that seems like a very good fit for Bryce. Nationally relevant school in a major conference, basketball-first school (that routinely outdraws the Bucks in Milwaukee), private institution run by the Jesuits, close enough where he can maintain/strengthen his current recruiting relationships.
I was never particularly worried about the rumors re: Mississippi State, Tulsa, or DePaul, nor have seen Bryce's name at all linked to the Marquette job. This just seems like a case where I could see good reasons for interest by both parties.
Hopefully I'm just being paranoid...thoughts?
After this season, I would not be too worried about Bryce leaving.
Especially when the alternative is Ben Howland.
Did I express my disbelief that VA got a 1 seed anywhere yet? Because I need to have it registered somewhere and soon.
If he goes, then goodbye. I'm over it.
I wouldn't worry about it.
He isn't going anywhere.
Wonder if Wardle will be considered?
Good Lord, I hope they consider him.
...I mean, can you imagine what he would say/do to them if they told him no thanks?
No way that a school with a solid basketball history hires Bryce away after this season. He will need another season like last year to EVER be considered for a Marquette or Wake Forest
I know that Baylor was in a different situation, but what in the world had Scott done to be considered for the Baylor job? And if anybody says he was a great recruiter that will really be funny. Bryce's resume blows Scott's away if you compare them at the same time in their lives, as first year head coaches.
As I've said a few dozen times before, VU men's basketball is living on borrowed time due to the administration's ongoing refusal to address facility needs. Every Valpo fan/alumnus should thank their lucky stars for Bryce and his ability to succeed despite the lack of support he needs and deserves. The day Bryce leaves is the day the music died. Anyone who thinks Greg Tonagel or anyone else can waltz in here and recruit the way Bryce has with a glorified high school gym for facilities is kidding themselves.
Oh, no need to remind me of the never ending, always changing list of critical facility needs "far" more important than upgrading the ARC. I understand. Difficult choices sometimes have to be made. I only hope the the administration understands that remaining competitive is no different for the men's basketball program than for the science program, or a restaurant, or any other business venture. If you fail to invest in facilities comparable to those of your competitors, you will not remain competitive. This is an indisputable fact.
Thus, like it, don't like it, care, don't care, believe it or don't, it is where we're headed beginning the day Bryce Drew leaves - the day the music died.
Quote from: FWalum on March 23, 2014, 03:13:31 PMI know that Baylor was in a different situation, but what in the world had Scott done to be considered for the Baylor job? And if anybody says he was a great recruiter that will really be funny. Bryce's resume blows Scott's away if you compare them at the same time in their lives, as first year head coaches.
At the time Scott was hired by Baylor he was promoted by Tim Floyd who had got to know the Drews when Floyd was head coach of the Bulls and Bryce was playing for the Bulls. It was Tim Floyd who was helping the Baylor decision makers find someone who had the reputation of building a program the "right" way.
Quote from: wh on March 23, 2014, 04:33:32 PM
As I've said a few dozen times before, VU men's basketball is living on borrowed time due to the administration's ongoing refusal to address facility needs. Every Valpo fan/alumnus should thank their lucky stars for Bryce and his ability to succeed despite the lack of support he needs and deserves. The day Bryce leaves is the day the music died. Anyone who thinks Greg Tonnagel or anyone else can waltz in here and recruit the way Bryce has with a glorified high school gym for facilities is kidding themselves.
Oh, no need to remind me of the never ending, always changing list of critical facility needs "far" more important than upgrading the ARC. I understand. Difficult choices sometimes have to be made. I only hope the the administration understands that remaining competitive is no different for the men's basketball program than for the science program, or a restaurant, or any other business venture. If you fail to invest in facilities comparable to those of your competitors, you will not remain competitive. This is an indisputable fact.
Thus, like it, don't like it, care, don't care, believe it or don't, it is where we're headed beginning the day Bryce Drew leaves - the day the music died.
Love ya wh, but facilities won't keep Bryce here if he wants to leave. When you're making say, 250k and somebody offers 2 mil, we could have brand new everything and he would be gone.
Quote from: wh on March 23, 2014, 04:33:32 PM
As I've said a few dozen times before, VU men's basketball is living on borrowed time due to the administration's ongoing refusal to address facility needs. Every Valpo fan/alumnus should thank their lucky stars for Bryce and his ability to succeed despite the lack of support he needs and deserves. The day Bryce leaves is the day the music died. Anyone who thinks Greg Tonnagel or anyone else can waltz in here and recruit the way Bryce has with a glorified high school gym for facilities is kidding themselves.
Oh, no need to remind me of the never ending, always changing list of critical facility needs "far" more important than upgrading the ARC. I understand. Difficult choices sometimes have to be made. I only hope the the administration understands that remaining competitive is no different for the men's basketball program than for the science program, or a restaurant, or any other business venture. If you fail to invest in facilities comparable to those of your competitors, you will not remain competitive. This is an indisputable fact. Thus, like it, don't like it, care, don't care, believe it or don't, it is where we're headed beginning the day Bryce Drew leaves.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
And I might add that academic competition does not reveal itself on a nationally televised crawler whenever a VU chemistry professor achieves an academic breakthrough or a VU law professor comes up with a new precedent. FGCU and Butler are testimonies to the fact that if you win (and being able to recruit to a good facility is an
integral part of that), good things happen to the athletic program BUT, MORE IMPORTANTLY, to the university. FGCU is still leveraging last year's exposure like we never did when 'the shot' went viral. But that's water under the bridge. Hope our present administration sees the value of a Dayton going so deep this year and the PR Mercer (I hate them for what they did in football) got for their upset of Duke. Those southern schools may appear to be slow, but they know how to leverage athletic publicity.
ADDITION to respond to 72: But an upgraded facility might help to convince Bryce that he should stay longer (or make him think twice).
Quote from: wh on March 23, 2014, 04:33:32 PM
As I've said a few dozen times before, VU men's basketball is living on borrowed time due to the administration's ongoing refusal to address facility needs. Every Valpo fan/alumnus should thank their lucky stars for Bryce and his ability to succeed despite the lack of support he needs and deserves. The day Bryce leaves is the day the music died. Anyone who thinks Greg Tonnagel or anyone else can waltz in here and recruit the way Bryce has with a glorified high school gym for facilities is kidding themselves.
Oh, no need to remind me of the never ending, always changing list of critical facility needs "far" more important than upgrading the ARC. I understand. Difficult choices sometimes have to be made. I only hope the the administration understands that remaining competitive is no different for the men's basketball program than for the science program, or a restaurant, or any other business venture. If you fail to invest in facilities comparable to those of your competitors, you will not remain competitive. This is an indisputable fact.
Thus, like it, don't like it, care, don't care, believe it or don't, it is where we're headed beginning the day Bryce Drew leaves - the day the music died.
I completely agree Valpo is living on borrowed time. I can't believe that VU didn't do more to capitalize on the success of the sweet 16 run, but alas, they didn't. 16 years later and they're still in the Mid Con (call it the Horizon if you'd like, but it's all members were in the Mid Con at one point), playing basically the same teams, for a middling league (anybody notice the Summit won a game with N. Dakota St. with the same NCAA tournament results.
Let's call a spade a spade. The reason VU made it to the Sweet 16 was they had Indiana Mr. Basketball on the roster and a future NBA player. Do you see any Indiana Mr. Basketballs waking through that door anytime soon? I don't. They have 2 NCAA tournament wins all time, both of those were because of Mr. Basketball. Additionally, Butler ran with their opportunity (yes, back to back NT games is MUCH better than 1 NCAA Sweet 16) instead of plodding along without ambition to be anything more than what they were in the past. I still say joining the Horizon had much more to do with travel than upgrading the level of competition (whatever the reason it wasn't a bad move).
All that being said, if Bryce does indeed leave, VU has one more answer in Tonagel and then...um.... (insert crickets).
*I don't think the recruiting would drop off
any if Greg Tonagel was the coach. The players he's recruited to IWU are amazing considering the level they're competing.
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 23, 2014, 05:37:18 PM
I completely agree Valpo is living on borrowed time. I can't believe that VU didn't do more to capitalize on the success of the sweet 16 run, but alas, they didn't. 16 years later and they're still in the Mid Con (call it the Horizon if you'd like, but it's all members were in the Mid Con at one point), playing basically the same teams, for a middling league (anybody notice the Summit won a game with N. Dakota St. with the same NCAA tournament results.
Let's call a spade a spade. The reason VU made it to the Sweet 16 was they had Indiana Mr. Basketball on the roster and a future NBA player. Do you see any Indiana Mr. Basketballs waking through that door anytime soon? I don't. They have 2 NCAA tournament wins all time, both of those were because of Mr. Basketball. Additionally, Butler ran with their opportunity (yes, back to back NT games is MUCH better than 1 NCAA Sweet 16) instead of plodding along without ambition to be anything more than what they were in the past. I still say joining the Horizon had much more to do with travel than upgrading the level of competition (whatever the reason it wasn't a bad move).
All that being said, if Bryce does indeed leave, VU has one more answer in Tonagel and then...um.... (insert crickets).
*I don't think the recruiting would drop off any if Greg Tonagel was the coach. The players he's recruited to IWU are amazing considering the level they're competing.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
In today's world commitment is not a verbal thing -- action is what counts. Announce a two (three?) year fundraising program to upgrade the ARC. Plan it so that incremental improvements are immediately visible each year. But get started ASAP.
In retrospect, it's pretty clear why VU didn't get the MVC bid and Loyola did -- lip service (30 year plan) vs. action (Gentile Center - and of course Chicago). But what if there was a first class ARC renovation on the drawing boards with a 2-3 year go-live? Heck, Valpo is practically a Chicago suburb. The market is there if we win -- and we're getting the Chicago kids.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 23, 2014, 06:27:49 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 23, 2014, 05:37:18 PM
I completely agree Valpo is living on borrowed time. I can't believe that VU didn't do more to capitalize on the success of the sweet 16 run, but alas, they didn't. 16 years later and they're still in the Mid Con (call it the Horizon if you'd like, but it's all members were in the Mid Con at one point), playing basically the same teams, for a middling league (anybody notice the Summit won a game with N. Dakota St. with the same NCAA tournament results.
Let's call a spade a spade. The reason VU made it to the Sweet 16 was they had Indiana Mr. Basketball on the roster and a future NBA player. Do you see any Indiana Mr. Basketballs waking through that door anytime soon? I don't. They have 2 NCAA tournament wins all time, both of those were because of Mr. Basketball. Additionally, Butler ran with their opportunity (yes, back to back NT games is MUCH better than 1 NCAA Sweet 16) instead of plodding along without ambition to be anything more than what they were in the past. I still say joining the Horizon had much more to do with travel than upgrading the level of competition (whatever the reason it wasn't a bad move).
All that being said, if Bryce does indeed leave, VU has one more answer in Tonagel and then...um.... (insert crickets).
*I don't think the recruiting would drop off any if Greg Tonagel was the coach. The players he's recruited to IWU are amazing considering the level they're competing.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
In today's world commitment is not a verbal thing -- action is what counts. Announce a two (three?) year fundraising program to upgrade the ARC. Plan it so that incremental improvements are immediately visible each year. But get started ASAP.
In retrospect, it's pretty clear why VU didn't get the MVC bid and Loyola did -- lip service (30 year plan) vs. action (Gentile Center - and of course Chicago). But what if there was a first class ARC renovation on the drawing boards with a 2-3 year go-live? Heck, Valpo is practically a Chicago suburb. The market is there if we win -- and we're getting the Chicago kids.
Loyola didn't get the MVC bid because of the Gentile Center or their track (they don't have one!). The Gentile Center seats 500 less then our ARC. They got it because of some research that said that having a present in Chicago would help their league.
As for Butler parlaying their success into much bigger things, I agree. However, they are at risk of becoming a bottom dweller in the CATHBUT league and, although they will receive a large amount of money, money alone won't attract winning kids. Ask DePaul. Part of, and it may be a big part of, why we have attracted the recruits we have has as much to do with winning and the notion that as a player winning gets you to post season play. Obviously Coach Drew and Powell et al have been a big part of it, but winning the conference two years running must have helped as well. Facilities don't win games--ask Loyola. Butler had some pretty old, run down facilities--although historical--which they are currently raising money to improve, but did their winning with a few key recruits and great coaching.
Look, I'm all for cushy seats, more rest rooms and better concessions. I just don't think we should all think if we drop 10 mil on the ARC that it will assure us that Bryce retires at Valpo or that we will be invited to some bigger conference
62 - you are my hero and I agree with your comments, but dude, you need to get off your beef on Mercer leaving the bogus Pioneer football conference. Mercer used the Pioneer conference as a preparatory experience before moving to better competition. They built wonderful facilities, have a great product going and moved on. If football is important to their total portfolio, and they give football scholarship money, then who can blame them. Remember, football in the Pioneer conference is lowest end of Div I-AA college football.
As for the facilities - is Valpo that strapped for cash? It's been 30 years and it's time for an upgrade. Clean up and expand the ARC to 7000. If Butler, Drake and Evansville can do it, why can't Valpo? In the future, I would like to see Valpo move up to the Valley or a higher level conference. We should always prepare for bigger opportunities and not think small all the time - when Valpo does this it drives me nuts.
Also, if Bryce Drew leaves, Valpo is in big trouble. In reality, this team met expectations - the Senior class was weak, and their best players will return. Bryce learned a lot this year, which is not a bad thing.
"As for Butler parlaying their success into much bigger things, I agree. However, they are at risk of becoming a bottom dweller in the CATHBUT league and, although they will receive a large amount of money, money alone won't attract winning kids. Ask DePaul. Part of, and it may be a big part of, why we have attracted the recruits we have has as much to do with winning and the notion that as a player winning gets you to post season play. Obviously Coach Drew and Powell et al have been a big part of it, but winning the conference two years running must have helped as well. Facilities don't win games--ask Loyola. Butler had some pretty old, run down facilities--although historical--which they are currently raising money to improve, but did their winning with a few key recruits and great coaching.
Look, I'm all for cushy seats, more rest rooms and better concessions. I just don't think we should all think if we drop 10 mil on the ARC that it will assure us that Bryce retires at Valpo or that we will be invited to some bigger conference "
DePaul problems are very complicated since the late 80's. Joey Meyer was there way too long and there was a nepotism issue. The fan base gradually dropped because of this. They are afraid to face Illinois and for awhile UIC. The Allstate Arena is a generic dump and is a haul away from campus. Top kids out of Chicago are leaving the area and Illinois. And in reality, Chicago is very much a below average college basketball town.
As for dropping 10 mil, assuming Bryce Drew will retire at Valpo is not a wise assumption, especially with the current state of college basketball. You are certainly correct on the conference - we need to step up to the Valley or an equivalent competitive conference.
First of all, I agree with Pgmado, who wrote that Bryce "isn't going anywhere." All indications are that Bryce has decided to stay at Valpo for the near future at least.
He feels an affection for Valparaiso. He wants to be close to his parents, who have had their well-known health issues. His wife is expecting their first child. He just signed a long-term contract. He has his own first recruiting class that he would like to develop for the next few years. I think Bryce feels an attachment to this year's group of freshmen. Bryce doesn't seem to be the kind of person for whom the money and prestige an upper-level conference school can offer would be everything. In my admittedly limited dealings with Bryce, I believe he is the type of person who thinks his family, faith, and friends are most important.
Now, could an offer arise that he couldn't refuse, something like the head coaching position of the Boston Celtics (or in Bryce's case, the Chicago Bulls)? Not likely. Would he be the first choice of some large universities close to home, ie. Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame? Not likely.
In any case, as much as I always have admired and liked Tonagel, if Bryce somehow did leave for another opportunity, I believe the university's first choice to replace him is sitting on the Valpo bench—Coach Powell (unless by that time he has already been hired as head coach at another program). Powell is already respected and considered an excellent recruiter by many. He also seems to be a person of high character. After Powell, then Tonagel enters the picture as a possible candidate.
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 23, 2014, 05:37:18 PM
Quote from: wh on March 23, 2014, 04:33:32 PM
As I've said a few dozen times before, VU men's basketball is living on borrowed time due to the administration's ongoing refusal to address facility needs. Every Valpo fan/alumnus should thank their lucky stars for Bryce and his ability to succeed despite the lack of support he needs and deserves. The day Bryce leaves is the day the music died. Anyone who thinks Greg Tonnagel or anyone else can waltz in here and recruit the way Bryce has with a glorified high school gym for facilities is kidding themselves.
Oh, no need to remind me of the never ending, always changing list of critical facility needs "far" more important than upgrading the ARC. I understand. Difficult choices sometimes have to be made. I only hope the the administration understands that remaining competitive is no different for the men's basketball program than for the science program, or a restaurant, or any other business venture. If you fail to invest in facilities comparable to those of your competitors, you will not remain competitive. This is an indisputable fact.
Thus, like it, don't like it, care, don't care, believe it or don't, it is where we're headed beginning the day Bryce Drew leaves - the day the music died.
I completely agree Valpo is living on borrowed time. I can't believe that VU didn't do more to capitalize on the success of the sweet 16 run, but alas, they didn't. 16 years later and they're still in the Mid Con (call it the Horizon if you'd like, but it's all members were in the Mid Con at one point), playing basically the same teams, for a middling league (anybody notice the Summit won a game with N. Dakota St. with the same NCAA tournament results.
Let's join the Southland because someone in that league won a tourney game!
Seriously what the hell do you expect of Valpo? Magically join the A10? Join the Big East? The B1G 10? Since the Sweet 16 run they jumped up to a 1-2 bid geographically sane league with a much higher conference RPI. The only other option would be to be magically invited to the MVC, another 1-2 bid league. Except travel times would be longer and we'd have to upset Wichita State in the conference tournament to make the dance. Sounds fun!
Its absolutely ridiculous how people on here think we're somehow too good for this league and how terrible it is that the league consists of teams that were in the MidCon 20 years ago. Whats the alternative? We should've stayed in the Summit because North Dakota State won a tourney game? We should've jumped up to the A10 by now? Since the Sweet 16 year Valpo consistently won the league to jump up a conference. Before the Sweet 16 year, Wright State, CSU, UWM, UWGB, etc had already left, so if you're going to be disappointed at our conference situation, you might as well blame the guys from 20 years ago.
As for the facilities - I'd agree with wh, but I'm not 100% convinced the program is screwed forever, but in order to take this program to the next level, were going to have to invest some money in facilities upgrades. Unfortunately we might just need to hope that an alumni is actually a sports fan. The Christophers and the likes aren't the mid major basketball fans like us.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2014, 07:35:36 PMIts absolutely ridiculous how people on here think we're somehow too good for this league and how terrible it is that the league consists of teams that were in the MidCon 20 years ago
I don't think we are too good for the HL, but disappointed in the HL that we lost Butler and Loyola and gained Oakland. I dislike we are in a league with state-commuter schools who don't share the same academic values, student body, endowment or the same type of fan following as we do. (Feels good to get it off my chest....I say it every time we are losing a conference game).
I like the proximately of the conference and the HL network. HL is ahead of our old position in terms of travel and rpi. That's it.
What can we do about it besides express our displeasure and/or disappointment on our fan blog?
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 23, 2014, 09:05:18 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2014, 07:35:36 PMIts absolutely ridiculous how people on here think we're somehow too good for this league and how terrible it is that the league consists of teams that were in the MidCon 20 years ago
I don't think we are too good for the HL, but disappointed in the HL that we lost Butler and Loyola and gained Oakland. I dislike we are in a league with state-commuter schools who don't share the same academic values, student body, endowment or the same type of fan following as we do.
(Feels good to get it off my chest....I say it every time we are losing a conference game).
I like the proximately of the conference and the HL network. HL is ahead of our old position in terms of travel and rpi. That's it.
What can we do about it besides express our displeasure and/or disappointment on our fan blog?
There is no alternative right now. We're not going to the MVC. We can't replace Butler because there's no more midwestern schools to add. Would it be cool to be in a conference full of Midwestern private schools with 4k students? Sure, but that doesn't exist and never will. So I'm not going to be frustrated we're not in a conference that doesn't exist.
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2014, 07:35:36 PM
Let's join the Southland because someone in that league won a tourney game!
Seriously what the hell do you expect of Valpo? Magically join the A10? Join the Big East? The B1G 10? Since the Sweet 16 run they jumped up to a 1-2 bid geographically sane league with a much higher conference RPI. The only other option would be to be magically invited to the MVC, another 1-2 bid league. Except travel times would be longer and we'd have to upset Wichita State in the conference tournament to make the dance. Sounds fun!
Its absolutely ridiculous how people on here think we're somehow too good for this league and how terrible it is that the league consists of teams that were in the MidCon 20 years ago. Whats the alternative? We should've stayed in the Summit because North Dakota State won a tourney game? We should've jumped up to the A10 by now? Since the Sweet 16 year Valpo consistently won the league to jump up a conference. Before the Sweet 16 year, Wright State, CSU, UWM, UWGB, etc had already left, so if you're going to be disappointed at our conference situation, you might as well blame the guys from 20 years ago.
As for the facilities - I'd agree with wh, but I'm not 100% convinced the program is screwed forever, but in order to take this program to the next level, were going to have to invest some money in facilities upgrades. Unfortunately we might just need to hope that an alumni is actually a sports fan. The Christophers and the likes aren't the mid major basketball fans like us.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I think you missed my point. It's not that Valpo should have joined any particular league, but the fact that they're playing in basically the same league, with the same facilities, with the same general status quo approach. The brand didn't grow, nor is it going to grow either. The reality is Valpo is in the same spot they were in 1997, with less NCAA tournament exposure and Mr. Basketball isn't walking through that door anytime soon.
There was a lot of trashing of the Summit League and talk of how much better the Horizon League would be for Valpo and seeding in the NCAA's if they got in. Last year Valpo was a 14 seed out of the Horizon League vs. South Dakota State getting a 13 seed. This year it was 12 seed for North Dakota State. Valpo's Sweet 16 run was as a 13 seed. Point being, neither conference is that fantastic and the difference between the two is marginal at best. Mid Con, Summit League, Horizon League, OVC, ect...they're all pretty much the same thing with a different logo.
and some people also think that walmart and target are the same stores with different logos.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 23, 2014, 09:51:41 PM
and some people also think that walmart and target are the same stores with different logos.
They pretty much are, minus some credit card security breaches. It's not like you're picking up Frette sheets at either one.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 23, 2014, 06:57:17 PM
62 - you are my hero and I agree with your comments, but dude, you need to get off your beef on Mercer leaving the bogus Pioneer football conference. Mercer used the Pioneer conference as a preparatory experience before moving to better competition. They built wonderful facilities, have a great product going and moved on. If football is important to their total portfolio, and they give football scholarship money, then who can blame them. Remember, football in the Pioneer conference is lowest end of Div I-AA college football.
As for the facilities - is Valpo that strapped for cash? It's been 30 years and it's time for an upgrade. Clean up and expand the ARC to 7000. If Butler, Drake and Evansville can do it, why can't Valpo? In the future, I would like to see Valpo move up to the Valley or a higher level conference. We should always prepare for bigger opportunities and not think small all the time - when Valpo does this it drives me nuts.
Also, if Bryce Drew leaves, Valpo is in big trouble. In reality, this team met expectations - the Senior class was weak, and their best players will return. Bryce learned a lot this year, which is not a bad thing.
USC -- I can't get over it, ;) but all you guys can just ignore my Mercer hangup. But the damn Mercer bear still is on the Pioneer site!
But I disagree with you on one point. We don't need a 7,000 seat facility -- just 5-6K really nice seats and the amenities (AKA adequate rest rooms and good concession stands for starters) that attract fans to come back over and over. Once that goes in, the ancillary possibilities for mid-market concerts (e.g., George Winston, Jim Brickman, Norah Jones, etc.,) and other events multiply. The place could be a money maker (at least a break-even maker) that would help with the financing. And isn't one of the missions of the university -- bringing culture and the arts to NW Indiana (if not it should be)? Sorry, but there's a limit to what the chapel can provide to the outside community. I've seen this evolve at Boston University with the beautiful, new Agganis Center. It was built to showcase their hockey team with 8500 seats in downtown Boston (but still on campus). It now is a cultural stop-off for numerous concerts and shows looking for a sellout in a smaller arena. This exposes BU to the community in a number of vibrant ways. Couldn't that be happening at Valpo for NW Indiana? The key is not to overbuild -- just fit the niche.
But I do agree that VU can't wait much longer. If they do wait too long, it's back to D-III. Right, Setshot?
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 23, 2014, 10:02:28 PMThey pretty much are, minus some credit card security breaches. It's not like you're picking up Frette sheets at either one.
it's also not like there's a peopleoftarget.com either
edit...
er
well
http://peopleoftarget.wordpress.com/ (http://peopleoftarget.wordpress.com/)
erg
People in Target (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA_Rzkmus3w#ws)
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 23, 2014, 09:49:55 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2014, 07:35:36 PM
Let's join the Southland because someone in that league won a tourney game!
Seriously what the hell do you expect of Valpo? Magically join the A10? Join the Big East? The B1G 10? Since the Sweet 16 run they jumped up to a 1-2 bid geographically sane league with a much higher conference RPI. The only other option would be to be magically invited to the MVC, another 1-2 bid league. Except travel times would be longer and we'd have to upset Wichita State in the conference tournament to make the dance. Sounds fun!
Its absolutely ridiculous how people on here think we're somehow too good for this league and how terrible it is that the league consists of teams that were in the MidCon 20 years ago. Whats the alternative? We should've stayed in the Summit because North Dakota State won a tourney game? We should've jumped up to the A10 by now? Since the Sweet 16 year Valpo consistently won the league to jump up a conference. Before the Sweet 16 year, Wright State, CSU, UWM, UWGB, etc had already left, so if you're going to be disappointed at our conference situation, you might as well blame the guys from 20 years ago.
As for the facilities - I'd agree with wh, but I'm not 100% convinced the program is screwed forever, but in order to take this program to the next level, were going to have to invest some money in facilities upgrades. Unfortunately we might just need to hope that an alumni is actually a sports fan. The Christophers and the likes aren't the mid major basketball fans like us.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I think you missed my point. It's not that Valpo should have joined any particular league, but the fact that they're playing in basically the same league, with the same facilities, with the same general status quo approach. The brand didn't grow, nor is it going to grow either. The reality is Valpo is in the same spot they were in 1997, with less NCAA tournament exposure and Mr. Basketball isn't walking through that door anytime soon.
There was a lot of trashing of the Summit League and talk of how much better the Horizon League would be for Valpo and seeding in the NCAA's if they got in. Last year Valpo was a 14 seed out of the Horizon League vs. South Dakota State getting a 13 seed. This year it was 12 seed for North Dakota State. Valpo's Sweet 16 run was as a 13 seed. Point being, neither conference is that fantastic and the difference between the two is marginal at best. Mid Con, Summit League, Horizon League, OVC, ect...they're all pretty much the same thing with a different logo.
If all of these conferences are basically the same thing, what are you so pissed off about? That we're not in the Big East? What conference should we be in right now? Are you pissed we haven't jumped to the MVC? Seriously, where do you expect us to be right now? I guess the SWAC, Southland, SoCon, Sun Belt, A Sun, CUSA, same damn thing too, right? SFA got a 12 seed and Tulsa got a 13.
These were the teams in the MidCon in 1997-1998:
1 Valparaiso
2 Oral Roberts
3 Youngstown State
3 Western Illinois
5 Buffalo
6 Missouri-Kansas City
7 Southern Utah
8 Northeastern Illinois
9 Chicago State
It doesn't exactly look like the current Horizon League, but hey, let's keep pretending we're in the same exact spot we were in 1997. Trips to Detroit are basically the same as taking a trip to southern utah. Playing 2 games a year vs Chicago State where your RPI gets worse from a win is basically the same thing as what we have now. I guess going 18-0 in a conference and not even being remotely close to at-large talks if you lose your conference tourney is about what we have now, right?
Same conference different logo, lol, I thought people here would actually respect mid major basketball. Sounds like something that would come out of a Duke fan.
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2014, 10:40:13 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 23, 2014, 09:49:55 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2014, 07:35:36 PM
Let's join the Southland because someone in that league won a tourney game!
Seriously what the hell do you expect of Valpo? Magically join the A10? Join the Big East? The B1G 10? Since the Sweet 16 run they jumped up to a 1-2 bid geographically sane league with a much higher conference RPI. The only other option would be to be magically invited to the MVC, another 1-2 bid league. Except travel times would be longer and we'd have to upset Wichita State in the conference tournament to make the dance. Sounds fun!
Its absolutely ridiculous how people on here think we're somehow too good for this league and how terrible it is that the league consists of teams that were in the MidCon 20 years ago. Whats the alternative? We should've stayed in the Summit because North Dakota State won a tourney game? We should've jumped up to the A10 by now? Since the Sweet 16 year Valpo consistently won the league to jump up a conference. Before the Sweet 16 year, Wright State, CSU, UWM, UWGB, etc had already left, so if you're going to be disappointed at our conference situation, you might as well blame the guys from 20 years ago.
As for the facilities - I'd agree with wh, but I'm not 100% convinced the program is screwed forever, but in order to take this program to the next level, were going to have to invest some money in facilities upgrades. Unfortunately we might just need to hope that an alumni is actually a sports fan. The Christophers and the likes aren't the mid major basketball fans like us.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I think you missed my point. It's not that Valpo should have joined any particular league, but the fact that they're playing in basically the same league, with the same facilities, with the same general status quo approach. The brand didn't grow, nor is it going to grow either. The reality is Valpo is in the same spot they were in 1997, with less NCAA tournament exposure and Mr. Basketball isn't walking through that door anytime soon.
There was a lot of trashing of the Summit League and talk of how much better the Horizon League would be for Valpo and seeding in the NCAA's if they got in. Last year Valpo was a 14 seed out of the Horizon League vs. South Dakota State getting a 13 seed. This year it was 12 seed for North Dakota State. Valpo's Sweet 16 run was as a 13 seed. Point being, neither conference is that fantastic and the difference between the two is marginal at best. Mid Con, Summit League, Horizon League, OVC, ect...they're all pretty much the same thing with a different logo.
If all of these conferences are basically the same thing, what are you so pissed off about? That we're not in the Big East? What conference should we be in right now? Are you pissed we haven't jumped to the MVC? Seriously, where do you expect us to be right now? I guess the SWAC, Southland, SoCon, Sun Belt, A Sun, CUSA, same damn thing too, right? SFA got a 12 seed and Tulsa got a 13.
These were the teams in the MidCon in 1997-1998:
1 Valparaiso
2 Oral Roberts
3 Youngstown State
3 Western Illinois
5 Buffalo
6 Missouri-Kansas City
7 Southern Utah
8 Northeastern Illinois
9 Chicago State
It doesn't exactly look like the current Horizon League, but hey, let's keep pretending we're in the same exact spot we were in 1997. Trips to Detroit are basically the same as taking a trip to southern utah. Playing 2 games a year vs Chicago State where your RPI gets worse from a win is basically the same thing as what we have now. I guess going 18-0 in a conference and not even being remotely close to at-large talks if you lose your conference tourney is about what we have now, right?
Same conference different logo, lol, I thought people here would actually respect mid major basketball. Sounds like something that would come out of a Duke fan.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 23, 2014, 09:51:41 PM
and some people also think that walmart and target Dollar General and Family Dollar are the same stores with different logos.
There, I fixed it for you. Walmart/Target analogies are exclusive to Power 5 conferences. ;)
Quote from: FWalum on March 23, 2014, 03:13:31 PM
I know that Baylor was in a different situation, but what in the world had Scott done to be considered for the Baylor job? And if anybody says he was a great recruiter that will really be funny. Bryce's resume blows Scott's away if you compare them at the same time in their lives, as first year head coaches.
Not many prominent coaches would have taken a chance on the Baylor program, even BEFORE the tragic situation that unfolded. Baylor basketball was just like Baylor football back then, an absolute joke in the conference. Throw in the fact that they were going to be losing scholarships, unable to play in postseason tournaments, etc, and there really weren't a lot of coaches wanting that job. Here comes Scott Drew backed by Tim Floyd (as someone mentioned), and it made sense for them to bridge the gap for a few years to stem the suspensions, and if he over performed, fantastic. You don't think he was a great recruiter? He was consistently voted one of the top 25 college basketball recruiters in the late 90s and early 2000s...and it shows at Baylor. Scott's problem is in-game coaching. He can sell ice to an eskimo, if you just look at the talent he has brought to Baylor in the last decade.
Quote from: wh on March 23, 2014, 10:44:43 PMThere, I fixed it for you. Walmart/Target analogies are exclusive to Power 5 conferences.
:)
I love how no matter what the stated topic title is, we always (d)evolve to either "conference affiliation", "facilities", or "because we turn the ball over". Because this one involves a favorite phobia, "bryce leaving", it gets to include two of the three.
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2014, 10:40:13 PMIf all of these conferences are basically the same thing, what are you so pissed off about? That we're not in the Big East? What conference should we be in right now? Are you pissed we haven't jumped to the MVC? Seriously, where do you expect us to be right now? I guess the SWAC, Southland, SoCon, Sun Belt, A Sun, CUSA, same damn thing too, right? SFA got a 12 seed and Tulsa got a 13.
These were the teams in the MidCon in 1997-1998:
1 Valparaiso
2 Oral Roberts
3 Youngstown State
3 Western Illinois
5 Buffalo
6 Missouri-Kansas City
7 Southern Utah
8 Northeastern Illinois
9 Chicago State
It doesn't exactly look like the current Horizon League, but hey, let's keep pretending we're in the same exact spot we were in 1997. Trips to Detroit are basically the same as taking a trip to southern utah. Playing 2 games a year vs Chicago State where your RPI gets worse from a win is basically the same thing as what we have now. I guess going 18-0 in a conference and not even being remotely close to at-large talks if you lose your conference tourney is about what we have now, right?
Same conference different logo, lol, I thought people here would actually respect mid major basketball. Sounds like something that would come out of a Duke fan.
First off there are things to be pissed off about, and this isn't one of them. Disappointed, sure, pissed off, not so much. ??? As for where Valpo should be now, who knows because there was no effort to change anything or to increase the strength of the program. Valpo is clearly okay with that so it is what it is. Butler parlayed 2 incredible tournament runs into a Big East Invite. Horizon to A10 to Big East. That's amazing, but they're in a different world than VU. Butler is in Indianapolis vs. Valparaiso, IN. BIG Difference. That being said, with what Valpo has done to enhance the program it would be ridiculous to even attempt to join those ranks.
As for respecting the over used term "Mid Major" basketball, I certainly do, however...there's a difference between Mid Major and non BCS teams. Wichita State, Gonzaga, and VCU are Mid
Majors. Butler and Xavier used to be Mid Majors before they joined the Big East. The term Major is overused in my opinion.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 24, 2014, 07:12:49 AMI love how no matter what the stated topic title is, we always (d)evolve to either "facilities", or "because we turn the ball over".
I wish we could combine these two topics and turn the facilities over more often. ;D
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 24, 2014, 10:39:25 AM
Quote from: a3uge on March 23, 2014, 10:40:13 PMIf all of these conferences are basically the same thing, what are you so pissed off about? That we're not in the Big East? What conference should we be in right now? Are you pissed we haven't jumped to the MVC? Seriously, where do you expect us to be right now? I guess the SWAC, Southland, SoCon, Sun Belt, A Sun, CUSA, same damn thing too, right? SFA got a 12 seed and Tulsa got a 13.
These were the teams in the MidCon in 1997-1998:
1 Valparaiso
2 Oral Roberts
3 Youngstown State
3 Western Illinois
5 Buffalo
6 Missouri-Kansas City
7 Southern Utah
8 Northeastern Illinois
9 Chicago State
It doesn't exactly look like the current Horizon League, but hey, let's keep pretending we're in the same exact spot we were in 1997. Trips to Detroit are basically the same as taking a trip to southern utah. Playing 2 games a year vs Chicago State where your RPI gets worse from a win is basically the same thing as what we have now. I guess going 18-0 in a conference and not even being remotely close to at-large talks if you lose your conference tourney is about what we have now, right?
Same conference different logo, lol, I thought people here would actually respect mid major basketball. Sounds like something that would come out of a Duke fan.
First off there are things to be pissed off about, and this isn't one of them. Disappointed, sure, pissed off, not so much. ??? As for where Valpo should be now, who knows because there was no effort to change anything or to increase the strength of the program. Valpo is clearly okay with that so it is what it is. Butler parlayed 2 incredible tournament runs into a Big East Invite. Horizon to A10 to Big East. That's amazing, but they're in a different world than VU. Butler is in Indianapolis vs. Valparaiso, IN. BIG Difference. That being said, with what Valpo has done to enhance the program it would be ridiculous to even attempt to join those ranks.
As for respecting the over used term "Mid Major" basketball, I certainly do, however...there's a difference between Mid Major and non BCS teams. Wichita State, Gonzaga, and VCU are Mid Majors. Butler and Xavier used to be Mid Majors before they joined the Big East. The term Major is overused in my opinion.
"I'm disappointed..."
"Well where do you think Valpo should be right now, as opposed to where it was in 1997 when they were playing conference games in Southern Utah and vs Chicago State?"
"Who knows..."
Seriously, last year we had the highest RPI in the history of the program, higher than even the Sweet 16 year, and are currently playing conference games in Chicago and Milwaukee instead of Utah and Connecticut. If you rewound 15 years and asked where you'd expect Valpo to be, I'm pretty sure if you explained a scenario where we'd be playing conference games in Cleveland, Detroit, and Green Bay against future NBA players (Cole, McCallum, and Brown), we'd be in a much better spot.
This conversation is going nowhere if you think that moving to the Horizon did nothing to advance the strength of the program. It means your expectations were to jump from the Horizon to another league by now, which would mean advancing to the Elite 8 or something like that to jump up to the A10 or Big East.
Seriously, we're a small private Lutheran school with 2,800 undergrads in a small city. 15 years ago expecting Valpo would be in a 4-5 bid league or playing conference games against 1 seeds by now would have been ludicrous.
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 24, 2014, 10:39:25 AMAs for respecting the over used term "Mid Major" basketball, I certainly do, however...there's a difference between Mid Major and non BCS teams. Wichita State, Gonzaga, and VCU are Mid Majors. Butler and Xavier used to be Mid Majors before they joined the Big East. The term Major is overused in my opinion.
I think I agree ??? The use of "major" is very overused. Butler and Xavier are now majors because of their conference? That make DePaul a major, Houston, UCF and Temple, all majors. Is the A-10 a major? If so then Fordham just got moved into the major category, after all, Dayton is playing in the Sweet sixteen. No one from the Big East made it that far.
My point is simply that the press, and fans, are anxious to categorize teams. It helps with the David/Goliath thing. Much has been written this year about parity and how teams with lots of seniors who are part of "mid-major" or "low-major" conferences can and have won games against "high major" teams. Mercer, Harvard, Steven F. Austin come to mind. So the description of a team should follow their play and results. Butler has played at a "high-major" level while being part of a "mid-major" conference. This year Butler and DePaul were a combined 0-17 against top 50 teams an finished a combined 25-38. They weren't "high-major" teams--this year. In the same way is TCU a "High-major" because of their Big 12 conference membership? They finished 8-22 and 0-17 against the top 50. How about Houston, UCF or Temple?
To my way of thinking a team is playing at a "High-Major"
LEVELor it isn't. Wichita State was a "High-Major" team this year if they played in the Big 10 or the Valley. No need to further try to pigeon hole teams.
I want the team to be successful and in a successful conference. What determines succesfful conference? 1-2 bids where the conference winner doesn't always receive a 15-16. A win in a the NCAA tournament from time to time.
I also want the conference to have mostly private schools, good fan base, higher academic repuatation, and larger endowments.
I don't like playing schools with state money, huge student population where most don't live on campus, lower academic rankings and small endowments.
Besides location, what do we have in common with our conference foes?
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2014, 12:19:17 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 24, 2014, 10:39:25 AMAs for respecting the over used term "Mid Major" basketball, I certainly do, however...there's a difference between Mid Major and non BCS teams. Wichita State, Gonzaga, and VCU are Mid Majors. Butler and Xavier used to be Mid Majors before they joined the Big East. The term Major is overused in my opinion.
I think I agree ??? The use of "major" is very overused. Butler and Xavier are now majors because of their conference? That make DePaul a major, Houston, UCF and Temple, all majors. Is the A-10 a major? If so then Fordham just got moved into the major category, after all, Dayton is playing in the Sweet sixteen. No one from the Big East made it that far.
My point is simply that the press, and fans, are anxious to categorize teams. It helps with the David/Goliath thing. Much has been written this year about parity and how teams with lots of seniors who are part of "mid-major" or "low-major" conferences can and have won games against "high major" teams. Mercer, Harvard, Steven F. Austin come to mind. So the description of a team should follow their play and results. Butler has played at a "high-major" level while being part of a "mid-major" conference. This year Butler and DePaul were a combined 0-17 against top 50 teams an finished a combined 25-38. They weren't "high-major" teams--this year. In the same way is TCU a "High-major" because of their Big 12 conference membership? They finished 8-22 and 0-17 against the top 50. How about Houston, UCF or Temple?
To my way of thinking a team is playing at a "High-Major" LEVELor it isn't. Wichita State was a "High-Major" team this year if they played in the Big 10 or the Valley. No need to further try to pigeon hole teams.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/ncaa-tournament-proving-that-midmajor-semiupperlow,17154/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/ncaa-tournament-proving-that-midmajor-semiupperlow,17154/)
But to seriously address the labeling, typically CUSA/A10/MWC waffle in between "mid-major" and "high-major" along with Gonzaga, and now maybe VCU, which many consider a major school playing in a mid-major conference. The leading mid-major site midmajority (which is going away) coined the "Red Line" designation which bases mid major status on athletic budgets. While TCU sucks at basketball, they still spend $6.2 a year on it and are playing against Andrew Wiggins, not Nick Wiggins, so typically they wouldn't be called a mid major by anyone. CollegeInsider created a tournament and some awards based on their definition if mid major as anyone outside the typical power conferences, A10, MWC, and CUSA. Whatever the designation, there's a group of teams out there like North Dakota State, Valpo, South Dakota State, SFA, etc that don't have the budgets that the main conferences do, don't have the TV packages and don't have the recruiting advantages (seriously, 4 star recruits are more likely to go to TCU/Depaul than SFA/Valpo). Just because Valpo isn't at the level of top tier MVC/A10 team, doesn't mean we should be disappointed in where we are right now, which is playing in a league that doesn't have a trip each year to Fargo or Southern Utah.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 24, 2014, 01:08:00 PM
I want the team to be successful and in a successful conference. What determines succesfful conference? 1-2 bids where the conference winner doesn't always receive a 15-16. A win in a the NCAA tournament from time to time.
I also want the conference to have mostly private schools, good fan base, higher academic repuatation, and larger endowments.
I don't like playing schools with state money, huge student population where most don't live on campus, lower academic rankings and small endowments.
Besides location, what do we have in common with our conference foes?
What's the alternative? This conference you describe doesn't exist.
Also, we're currently not in a conference where that always receives a 15-16 seed. The Horizon has never received a 16 seed. We received a 14 seed last year because it we were conveniently close to a host site. Had the field been the same as this year where all the top conference teams lost, we would've been a 12 seed. This year had Green Bay won, they would have been a 12 seed. Had Sykes now gotten injured in the semi-final game, they'd be an at-large right now. The reason why we've wound up with 15 seeds in 2 of the last 3 years is because our best teams aren't being sent. The Summit, Southland, etc sent their best teams. We didn't. The league has sent a 15 seed only 3 time in its history. The Summit (MidCon) sent 5 16 seeds alone in that period.
Quote from: a3uge on March 24, 2014, 01:38:31 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 24, 2014, 01:08:00 PM
I want the team to be successful and in a successful conference. What determines succesfful conference? 1-2 bids where the conference winner doesn't always receive a 15-16. A win in a the NCAA tournament from time to time.
I also want the conference to have mostly private schools, good fan base, higher academic repuatation, and larger endowments.
I don't like playing schools with state money, huge student population where most don't live on campus, lower academic rankings and small endowments.
Besides location, what do we have in common with our conference foes?
What's the alternative? This conference you describe doesn't exist.
He just described the Ivies to a T. Well minus the multiple bids and tourney wins.
Mid-Major, High-Major, Low-Major blah,blah,blah blahhhhhhhhhhh. We keep hearing that it is hard to determine what these "labels" actually mean and that "Mid-Majors" are performing better in the tournament. If this is the case then why does the committee keep acting like "Mid-Majors" only deserve the leftovers from the power conferences. It is blatantly obvious this year that many of the teams seeded 8 - 16 were not seeded correctly. Either the RPI needs to be re-evaluated with more emphasis placed on conference standing or I suggest that each of the top 16 or so conferences get at least 2 teams in the tournament.
Quote from: historyman on March 24, 2014, 10:43:04 AMI wish we could combine these two topics and turn the facilities over more often.
you are today's big winner.
a3, I don't think milan's a VU fan as much as a butler fan, so you're kind of tilting at windmills there.
Quote from: FWalum on March 24, 2014, 04:01:58 PM
Mid-Major, High-Major, Low-Major blah,blah,blah blahhhhhhhhhhh. We keep hearing that it is hard to determine what these "labels" actually mean and that "Mid-Majors" are performing better in the tournament. If this is the case then why does the committee keep acting like "Mid-Majors" only deserve the leftovers from the power conferences. It is blatantly obvious this year that many of the teams seeded 8 - 16 were not seeded correctly. Either the RPI needs to be re-evaluated with more emphasis placed on conference standing or I suggest that each of the top 16 or so conferences get at least 2 teams in the tournament.
I don't know how this would be fixed, but something's wrong when Villanova gets a 2 seed after losing to Seton Hall, a monumental screwup, in their conf tourney, while Green Bay, a team projected as a 12 seed doesn't even get in because they had a screwup to a similar RPI team. I'm not sure why conference tourneys seem to have no weight the bigger the conference gets (Louisville a 4, Mich St a 4 while Mich a 2) but for lower conferences, there's absolutely no forgiveness for having a bad game in your conference tournament.
But then again Green Bays RPI this year was worse than what we ended up with last year.
I'm not saying there should be forgiveness for Green Bay losing the conf tourneys, but that the power conferences should be punished brutally for performing terribly in their conference tourneys.
Something seems wrong when Green Bay, Toledo, Belmont, and Georgia St, LA Tech, Boston U, UC Irvine, Vermont, and Davidson were all left out this year, while considerably worse teams are dancing in their place. There's a reason why there's only 1 A10 team in the Sweet 16, while every conference behind the A10 is absent. I'm not sure if how this problem would ever be solved, but we ended up with a watered down tournament on the bottom end in a year where the top seeds were obviously vulnerable.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 24, 2014, 04:32:27 PM
Quote from: historyman on March 24, 2014, 10:43:04 AMI wish we could combine these two topics and turn the facilities over more often.
you are today's big winner.
a3, I don't think milan's a VU fan as much as a butler fan, so you're kind of tilting at windmills there.
So that explains why he has no desire to look up whom was actually in the conference in 1997?
Quote from: a3uge on March 24, 2014, 04:54:34 PMSo that explains why he has no desire to look up whom was actually in the conference in 1997?
probably, and also why he doesn't really care about the subject in the first place, except as semi-innocent bystander
There's some grumbling about Shaka Smart being hired at Marquette. Seems like a guy that's buddies with PantherU is reporting it as a done deal. This can only end well.
62 - good comments and I agree with what you said. They need a cleaner, cozy and great arena we can be proud of. The 5 to 6K seating capacity makes sense.
Is Valpo strapped for cash? We need to go into debt like the rest of America!
"Seriously, we're a small private Lutheran school with 2,800 undergrads in a small city. 15 years ago expecting Valpo would be in a 4-5 bid league or playing conference games against 1 seeds by now would have been ludicrous."
I thought Valpo was getting closer to 4500 students. I must be wrong on that. I must be reading too much Valpo propaganda.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 24, 2014, 08:43:48 PM
I thought Valpo was getting closer to 4500 students. I must be wrong on that. I must be reading too much Valpo propaganda.
I think the total number is approaching that level, but a good deal of it is coming via the law and MBA programs. Similar to the strategy that Concordia-WI has used to either jumped or at least come close to us for #2 largest Lutheran school nationally.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All this frustration comes from the HL not being what it was when we joined 7 years ago.
From 1995 to 2011, the Horizon League has produced 22 wins including five "Sweet 16" appearances, making the Horizon League the only non-BCS conference with Sweet 16 participants in at least five of the last nine tournaments (2003, 2005, 2007, 2010 and 2011). The Horizon League has compiled a 15-8 record in the past five years in the NCAA tournament, ranking tops among all NCAA Division I conferences for winning percentage in that span.
Prior to our inaugural year in 2007, the conference we were joining was producing 2 bids on a regular basis. One of the two bids won a tourney game each of the double bid years.
"Valpo bloggers don't think we are too good for the HL" We just know the league has changed since we joined, thus the frustration. If the stats I just mentioned were happening today, bloggers wouldn't be disgruntled with the HL.
Heck, if those stats were happening today, I wouldn't care if the conference was dominated by commuter state system schools.
Quote from: Dave_2010 on March 24, 2014, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 24, 2014, 08:43:48 PM
I thought Valpo was getting closer to 4500 students. I must be wrong on that. I must be reading too much Valpo propaganda.
I think the total number is approaching that level, but a good deal of it is coming via the law and MBA programs. Similar to the strategy that Concordia-WI has used to either jumped or at least come close to us for #2 largest Lutheran school nationally.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Concordia Wisconsin has more students butthey are all over the place. Valpo has the largest number of students at one location among Lutheran institutions
yes, but isn't the only difference in the then and now stats "B----r"?
so...
They're not a D1 school, so as far as I'm concerned, they don't even exist.
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2014, 10:22:33 PMConcordia Wisconsin has more students butthey are all over the place
pretty sure that's an openly flagrant violation of Missouri Synod teaching
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 24, 2014, 10:29:45 PMyes, but isn't the only difference in the then and now stats "B----r"?
UWM had a run to sweet 16 during that span. During that time period there was another HL 1st round victory other than Butler. Several times Butler made it into the dance as an at-large bid as they did not win the conference.
Man, if Buzz Williams finds out about this thread he will be very impressed to think we devoted 55 posts to his leaving!
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 24, 2014, 10:39:25 AM
First off there are things to be pissed off about, and this isn't one of them. Disappointed, sure, pissed off, not so much. ??? As for where Valpo should be now, who knows because there was no effort to change anything or to increase the strength of the program. Valpo is clearly okay with that so it is what it is. Butler parlayed 2 incredible tournament runs into a Big East Invite. Horizon to A10 to Big East. That's amazing, but they're in a different world than VU. Butler is in Indianapolis vs. Valparaiso, IN. BIG Difference. That being said, with what Valpo has done to enhance the program it would be ridiculous to even attempt to join those ranks.
As for respecting the over used term "Mid Major" basketball, I certainly do, however...there's a difference between Mid Major and non BCS teams. Wichita State, Gonzaga, and VCU are Mid Majors. Butler and Xavier used to be Mid Majors before they joined the Big East. The term Major is overused in my opinion.
I would have to agree with Milan's comments in this respect. I don't think the move to the HL was necessarily an indication that there was a commitment to strengthen the VU's basketball program in general by the University. IMO, all that the move to the HL did was put VU in a position that it was at (or slightly above where it was at) before the Mid-Con nearly fell apart in 1994. In other words, from a conference affiliation standpoint, the move to the HL made Valpo whole again. That's it--nothing more and nothing less. Sure, travel was reduced and the quality of the programs increased after the move to the HL. But when you look at where the Mid-Con was after 1995 and what the conference had to do to secure its automatic bid, in that context nearly
any move to a new conference by VU from where the old Mid-Con was after 1994 would have potentially strengthened the program anyway in this regard. A strength by default, and not necessarily by University commitment.
From a conference affiliation standpoint, we always talk about how the HL was superior than the post 1994 Mid-Con because of its ability to obtain multiple bids to the NCAA tournament. However, what is often lost in this discussion is that the old Mid-Con was a multiple bid league in the late 80's and early 90's too prior to 1994. Strength can be relative, depending upon the context.
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Keeping on the Marquette topic:
(http://i.imgur.com/fHe1TZn.png)
Lol this guy, Panther "Done Deal" U, never learns.
"Always believe the best source"---so much wrong here.
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AMStill waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Don't know if we could have done anything different. Maybe when the Valley was on the campuses of Loyola, UIC and Valpo, we could have put something in their pockets....
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 25, 2014, 10:01:52 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AMStill waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Don't know if we could have done anything different. Maybe when the Valley was on the campuses of Loyola, UIC and Valpo, we could have put something in their pockets....
Unless we were going to magically transport our campus into the heart of Chicago, we were never getting that invite to the MVC.
Being mad at Valpo for not taking options that never existed is like hating yourself for not dating Kate Upton.
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 10:06:19 AMBeing mad at Valpo for not taking options that never existed is like hating yourself for not dating Kate Upton.
Well said. Not mad at Valpo, becaues I understand we weren't getting inviting to the Valley.
Mad at HL for not being the same competitive conference it was prior and at the time of our entrance.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 25, 2014, 10:33:30 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 10:06:19 AMBeing mad at Valpo for not taking options that never existed is like hating yourself for not dating Kate Upton.
Well said. Not mad at Valpo, becaues I understand we weren't getting inviting to the Valley.
Mad at HL for not being the same competitive conference it was prior and at the time of our entrance.
I mean, it's kind of our fault too. We didn't get it done last year at Nebraska, we couldn't get a big win against New Mexico or SLU, and we dropped a huge turd against Loyola in the first conf game of the year. I know we were inexplicably given a 14 seed over Montana, and got a bad draw for a 14 seed on top of that, but had we won some of those game we might have been playing OK St, Kansas St, Wisconsin, or UNLV in the Dance instead, all of which didn't last very long.
Not that last season wasn't a success, we made it to the tourney for the first time in the HL, but we did miss the opportunity to do something truly great and memorable. Green Bay and Wright State had that chance as well this year with their seniors and absolutely pissed that down the toilet. Hopefully in 3 years we're sitting atop the Horizon with our seniors discussing if we're good enough for an at-large, but to say that this scenario isn't possible in this league is a huge farce.
Brian Wardle was named by some as a possible candidate for the Marquette position. He now has also been named as a finalist for the Skip Prosser Man of the Year Award, which honors "those who achieve on the basketball court but who display moral integrity off it as well."
"The finalists also include Roman Banks (Southern University), John Becker (Vermont), Glenn Braica (St. Francis Brooklyn), Dick Hunsaker (Utah Valley), Tony Jasick (IPFW), Joe Jones (Boston University), Mike Krzyzewski (Duke), Paul Lusk (Missouri State), Phil Martelli (St. Joseph's), Randy Rahe (Weber State), Monte Ross (Delaware), Wayne Tinkle (Montana), Michael White (Louisiana Tech), Jay Wright (Villanova)."
http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=22500&ATCLID=209444366 (http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=22500&ATCLID=209444366)
Quote from: valpopal on March 25, 2014, 11:09:12 AM
Brian Wardle was named by some as a possible candidate for the Marquette position. He now has also been named as a finalist for the Skip Prosser Man of the Year Award, which honors "those who achieve on the basketball court but who display moral integrity off it as well."
"The finalists also include Roman Banks (Southern University), John Becker (Vermont), Glenn Braica (St. Francis Brooklyn), Dick Hunsaker (Utah Valley), Tony Jasick (IPFW), Joe Jones (Boston University), Mike Krzyzewski (Duke), Paul Lusk (Missouri State), Phil Martelli (St. Joseph's), Randy Rahe (Weber State), Monte Ross (Delaware), Wayne Tinkle (Montana), Michael White (Louisiana Tech), Jay Wright (Villanova)."
http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=22500&ATCLID=209444366 (http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=22500&ATCLID=209444366)
Man of the Year Award? Hahahha
You have got to be f***ing kidding me about him even being within 100 miles of the Skip Prosser award. It's an absolute joke that he is even mentioned with anything moral...
Also, I never believe what PantherU puts out, as demonstrated by his announcement that both Loyola AND UIC would be in the MVC last season, as it was also a 'done deal' :lol:
Don't forget his Bryce to Northwestern sure thing. :'(
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2014, 11:26:56 AM
You have got to be f***ing kidding me about him even being within 100 miles of the Skip Prosser award. It's an absolute joke that he is even mentioned with anything moral...
Also, I never believe what PantherU puts out, as demonstrated by his announcement that both Loyola AND UIC would be in the MVC last season, as it was also a 'done deal' :lol:
No, it was JUST UIC. Lol. That guys a wreck, glad he stopped trolling here.
Valpo is not Missouri Synod anymore, if my memory serves me correct
Quote from: usc4valpo link=topic=1812.msg44298#msg44now has strong ties298 date=1395767522
Valpo is not Missouri Synod anymore, if my memory serves me correct
.
Never was, has always been an independent Lutheran University. Now, the facts are that it was started by a bunch of LCMS folks and was always (until probably the last 25 years or so) heavily supported by the LCMS, but now has strong tied to both the LCMS and ELCA. Mark Heckler is the first non-LCMS member (he belongs to the CA) and only the econd non-clergy to be President.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 25, 2014, 12:12:02 PM
Valpo is not Missouri Synod anymore, if my memory serves me correct
Talks are ongoing for Valpo to move to the Missouri Synod and from what I hear, this is a done deal.
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 01:28:44 PMQuote from: usc4valpo on March 25, 2014, 12:12:02 PMValpo is not Missouri Synod anymore, if my memory serves me correct
Talks are ongoing for Valpo to move to the Missouri Synod and from what I hear, this is a done deal.
(http://i.imgur.com/r6zm9Dg.png)
Quote from: Kyle321n on March 25, 2014, 01:47:58 PM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 01:28:44 PMQuote from: usc4valpo on March 25, 2014, 12:12:02 PMValpo is not Missouri Synod anymore, if my memory serves me correct
Talks are ongoing for Valpo to move to the Missouri Synod and from what I hear, this is a done deal.
(http://i.imgur.com/r6zm9Dg.png)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Kyle321n on March 25, 2014, 01:47:58 PM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 01:28:44 PMQuote from: usc4valpo on March 25, 2014, 12:12:02 PMValpo is not Missouri Synod anymore, if my memory serves me correct
Talks are ongoing for Valpo to move to the Missouri Synod and from what I hear, this is a done deal.
(http://i.imgur.com/r6zm9Dg.png)
Lmao
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Speaking of Valparaiso's Lutheran connections, here is today's nice article about the Lutheran Basketball Association of America's tournament at the university this weekend: http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=64333 (http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=64333)
To be fair, his entire timeline is hilarious. He hates Baylor basketball because Scott Drew texted recruits illegally, but loves the model citizen Bruce Pearl.
(http://i.imgur.com/aP5ah6D.png)
Quote from: a3uge on March 25, 2014, 05:30:55 PMHe hates Baylor basketball because Scott Drew texted recruits illegally, but loves the model citizen Bruce Pearl.
This is true.
http://pantheru.com/2014/02/stuck-in-the-mud/ (http://pantheru.com/2014/02/stuck-in-the-mud/)
QuoteIt's easy to point a finger at Coach and say "He's not getting it done. Look at X wins and Y losses. He's not achieving the way Bruce Pearl did." No, he's not. He also doesn't cheat, but our past is our past.
Let's take this moment so we can acknowledge that yes, I did say that Bruce Pearl cheated at Milwaukee. I talk to many of you, if not all of you, and I can't count how many stories I've heard of breaking and bending rules with this program. If you want to challenge it, go right ahead, but you know you're wrong. Walt Waters? Anthony Passley? To be sure, none of the stories I heard are morally ambiguous, they're just the lame rules that the NCAA came up with to promote an even playing field. Some of these rules have even been repealed. Even if you disagree, there are secondary violations on the books. It's not like we were hiding anything.
it hurts the most when a blog that does everything right like ours ends up giving hits to a blog that does everything wrong.
PS--why are we talking about the missouri synod and valpo again?
QuoteQuote from: vu72 on March 24, 2014, 11:22:33 PM
Concordia Wisconsin has more students butthey are all over the place
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 25, 2014, 06:20:35 AM
pretty sure that's an openly flagrant violation of Missouri Synod teaching
come on -- is this why? first of all, this is just really freaking funny.
second of all, it's pretty clear I'm talking about Concordia, not VU, butthey, maybe i'm wrong and concordia does not always and everywhere = missouri synod.
should i have gone with wisconsin synod? would that have been both more accurate and also funnier? help a Catholic out here.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 25, 2014, 07:35:41 PM
QuoteQuote from: vu72 on March 24, 2014, 11:22:33 PM
Concordia Wisconsin has more students butthey are all over the place
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 25, 2014, 06:20:35 AM
pretty sure that's an openly flagrant violation of Missouri Synod teaching
come on -- is this why? first of all, this is just really freaking funny.
second of all, it's pretty clear I'm talking about Concordia, not VU, butthey, maybe i'm wrong and concordia does not always and everywhere = missouri synod.
should i have gone with wisconsin synod? would that have been both more accurate and also funnier? help a Catholic out here.
Yes, that would have been...."funnier."
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 25, 2014, 07:31:21 PMIf you want to challenge it, go right ahead, but you know you're wrong. Walt Waters? Anthony Passley?
Wow, does that bring back memories. Tony Passley was one intense player. I'll never forget getting the call and being told that after talking to Bruce Pearl we were going to give Tony a chance to get his life straight at Indiana Tech. Unfortunately it did not work out and he never put on a uniform, but I don't think our players ever practiced the same again after playing with him. He was 110% go all the time, a man among boys. Tony transferred to USI for the fall of 2007 amid a fair amount of hoopla but never appeared on the roster.
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AM
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...
It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League)
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AM
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...
It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League)
The argument is "who knows?" doesn't seem very strong. Then you combine it with "it's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller" which is something that would be outside the control of yourself. So you're essentially saying Valpo couldn't have done anything differently and should have 0 blame for where they are? Not really following that logic.
Also, you're saying that in 2007, the move from the Mid Con to a the Horizon was lateral? We should've jumped up from the Summit to the MVC/A10 in 2007? I'm not really understanding your arguments here, but I do know the only response I'll get is "who knows" along with more bashing of how we didn't jump from the MidCon to a multi-bid conference without any logical explanation of the route to get there. Were you expecting back to back NCAA championship game appearances while still in the Summit league?
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AM
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
This is more for arguments sake, but what if Valpo had been able to help charter the MCC in the late 70's with Butler, Loyola, and Evansville instead of the Mid-Con in 1982?
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AM
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...
It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League)
Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly. It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU. Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later? Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son? You can answer that for yourself. In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant.
Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result. So what did we lose by waiting 7 years? We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story. Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.
So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year? Again, you can answer that for yourself.
I have always said that Steinbrecher was terrible for our athletics program development in the late 90s and early 2000s...
Tx, I have to agree with you. I didn't have much interaction with AD Steinbrecher, but it always seemed that he was sitting in his office watching all of our programs and facilities decay to the point of "biding their time", instead of proactively getting things going to upgrade facilities, or get some of our programs moving forward. He definitely had loyalty, but it was loyalty in the wrong areas of athletics.
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 11:45:39 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AM
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...
It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League)
Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly. It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU. Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later? Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son? You can answer that for yourself. In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant.
Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result. So what did we lose by waiting 7 years? We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story. Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.
So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year? Again, you can answer that for yourself.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Pretty much sums that up in a nutshell
There is much to discuss about the future of Valpo athletics, but the pot shots at the Steinbrechers and the aspirsions expressed are neither helpful not true. If they help people with their feelings that more could have been done in the wake of 98 and it allows you to sleep at night ... fine. But castigating people with unfounded and feckless information is just plain mean-spirited in this time of Lent. I am disappointed by the tenor of this discussion.
1.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 26, 2014, 11:40:06 AMThis is more for arguments sake, but what if Valpo had been able to help charter the MCC in the late 70's with Butler, Loyola, and Evansville instead of the Mid-Con in 1982?
Agreed but at the time we were a wreck still playing in Hilltop Gym I believe. Some theorize that the original name Midwestern Cities Conference was chosen to make sure we were kept out.
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 11:45:39 AMLet me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly. It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.
Well, if a guy from Wright State said it then it must be gospel. I am not sure it is common knowledge, not even sure it is true.
Good old Nepo. U. :(
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 26, 2014, 01:16:37 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 26, 2014, 11:40:06 AMThis is more for arguments sake, but what if Valpo had been able to help charter the MCC in the late 70's with Butler, Loyola, and Evansville instead of the Mid-Con in 1982?
Agreed but at the time we were a wreck still playing in Hilltop Gym in believe. Some theorize that the original name Midwestern Cities Conference was chosen to make sure we were kept out.
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 11:45:39 AMLet me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly. It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.
Well, if a guy from Wright State said it then it must be gospel. I am not sure it is common knowledge, not even sure it is true.
I refuse to believe a word of this until it's confirmed by a reputable source like Jimmy from PantherU.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: valpo84 on March 26, 2014, 12:54:53 PMThere is much to discuss about the future of Valpo athletics, but the pot shots at the Steinbrechers and the aspirsions expressed are neither helpful not true. If they help people with their feelings that more could have been done in the wake of 98 and it allows you to sleep at night ... fine. But castigating people with unfounded and feckless information is just plain mean-spirited in this time of Lent. I am disappointed by the tenor of this discussion. 1.
I have to agree with 84.
I believe Bill Steinbrecher was thinking that he was acting in the best interests of VU. You make decisions based on the info and gut feelings you have. It had been only a few years before that 5 of the schools in the Mid-Con had left Valpo behind and jumped to the MCCities after promising to stay in the Mid-Con at one of it's administration meetings. Do you jump back into the lions den? When the HL invited Valpo in 2007 much of the personnel at those universities who conspired to leave Valpo in the dust had changed and ML used the info and gut feelings he had in 2007 to make what was the best decision. He had no way of knowing Butler would bolt for the A-10/Big East in a few years. As Bill S. didn't know if the 5 would bolt again to another conference such as the A-10 or Big East and leave Valpo behind.
All the hate over Valpo's situation with staying in the Mid-Con till 2007 can not be heaped on the Steinbrechers and the truth of the situation is certainly not known. I personally know that Bill has much more integrity than to let a family situation dictate all his actions in choosing which conference affliation was best for Valpo.
Quote from: valporun on March 26, 2014, 12:13:58 PM
Tx, I have to agree with you. I didn't have much interaction with AD Steinbrecher, but it always seemed that he was sitting in his office watching all of our programs and facilities decay to the point of "biding their time", instead of proactively getting things going to upgrade facilities, or get some of our programs moving forward. He definitely had loyalty, but it was loyalty in the wrong areas of athletics.
He may having been "biding his time" but the facts don't back up your statement. I'll always remember Mark LaBarbera coming up to Minneapolis for our annual golf tournament with Bill who had just finished his last year. Mark commented on what a tall task it will be to post the kind of results Bill and Valpo produced during his final year, 2003-2004.
2003 Football--Pioneer Football League Champs
2003-04 Men's Basketball--NCAA Tournament participants
2003-04 Women's Basketball--NCAA Tournament Participants
2003 Volleyball--NCAA Tournament Participants
I think any of us would be satisfied with these results next year, particularly with the improvement in other sports. Still, winning the football championship and having your flagship teams go to the NCAAs is pretty nice.
Quote from: Dave_2010 on March 26, 2014, 01:41:25 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 26, 2014, 01:16:37 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 26, 2014, 11:40:06 AMThis is more for arguments sake, but what if Valpo had been able to help charter the MCC in the late 70's with Butler, Loyola, and Evansville instead of the Mid-Con in 1982?
Agreed but at the time we were a wreck still playing in Hilltop Gym in believe. Some theorize that the original name Midwestern Cities Conference was chosen to make sure we were kept out.
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 11:45:39 AMLet me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly. It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.
Well, if a guy from Wright State said it then it must be gospel. I am not sure it is common knowledge, not even sure it is true.
I refuse to believe a word of this until it's confirmed by a reputable source like Jimmy from PantherU.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(http://i.imgur.com/BIfs8Yj.png)
When I was in school during that time period I mentioned, several coaches mentioned that we wouldn't leave the Mid-Con for as long as Steinbrecher was our AD. He had an affinity for the Mid-Con since he essentially helped to create it, and kept it together during the exodus. I can't blame him for having an affinity for that reason, but I can blame him for not taking a better situation. Can you honestly sit there and tell me that flying to Southern Utah, Centenary, etc, was better than moving to the HL?? Even if a few teams left the HL when we joined, there would still be much better competition and closer geography in any teams left over. For this reason, I say that our athletic program DEVELOPMENT was stifled during this time period by him. We won a few NCAA bids, yes, but we didn't turn that into other positives. None of what I am saying is mean-spirited, and I am not religious, so the lent thing doesn't apply anyways :)
Jimmy actually had the scoop 6 years in advance.
(http://i.imgur.com/tlUvZhI.png)
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 12:28:42 PM
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 11:45:39 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AM
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...
It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League)
Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly. It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU. Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later? Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son? You can answer that for yourself. In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant.
Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result. So what did we lose by waiting 7 years? We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story. Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.
So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year? Again, you can answer that for yourself.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Pretty much sums that up in a nutshell
So if was a lateral move, why would you be clapping wh? What would it matter if we didn't join the Horizon or not in 2001 as opposed to 2007?
Which part of my post did you not read?
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 05:18:30 PM
Which part of my post did you not read?
That was directed at milanmiracle, not you (notice no comma between clapping and wh). He said we have only moved latterly since 97. In order to jump to a A10/MVC conference we'd have to be in the Horizon, which he argued is a lateral move. So clapping at the notion we made a mistake by not joining the Horizon sooner was kind of weird.
If it is true we turned down a bid, it was a mistake. Obviously. But I would still be skeptical that we actually turned down a conference in order to play games against Chicago State twice a year.
But let's assume that's true and let's pretend we took the bid in 2001. If we were in the same league still would that be disappointing? There's only been 1 defect since then. Should UWM, UWGB, Detroit, UIC, Wright State, Cleveland State, YSU be even more disappointed?
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 11:45:39 AMIt's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU)
i don't believe anything until Jimmy the Panther tweets it
EDIT:
Quote from: Dave_2010 on March 26, 2014, 01:41:25 PMI refuse to believe a word of this until it's confirmed by a reputable source like Jimmy from PantherU.
Quote from: a3uge on March 26, 2014, 02:51:13 PMJimmy actually had the scoop 6 years in advance.
wow. great mimes think alike.
Quote from: a3uge on March 26, 2014, 03:00:15 PMThey landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel.
Not in 2001, but now in 2014, I would agree. It's almost lateral. Fact is the current HL is not the same as 2001. No at large, no NCAA tourney wins. Butler had majority (maybe all the at-larges) but teams like Cleveland St. and UWM knocked them off and won a game or two in the NCAA. UWM is not as good of a program as it was in 2001-2005. (Might be because Pearl was in place, probably cheating...).
Quote from: a3uge on March 26, 2014, 06:02:35 PMShould UWM, UWGB, Detroit, UIC, Wright State, Cleveland State, YSU be even more disappointed?
Yes, they should be disappointed. Disapointed in themselves and the HL. As said before, these programs aren't as good as they were in the early 2000's. Especially UWM and Cleveland St. CSU has produced a quality NBA'er but hasn't had the team success of winning HL's, big non-conference wins, or ncaa wins in a long time. Disapointed in the HL beacause the league has lost teams and has not been aggressive in replacing them. Don't know if the HL can do much about that....but those are the facts. Quality has decreased and even quantity has decreased....(also wished we had travel partners) I know travel as a college student is not fun, difficult, demanding and strainful. I experienced the type of travel as a student at Valpo with the soccer team from 01-05. I also experienced it as a coach in the summit for a couple years at ORU. Thursday leave from Tulsa to Macomb for a Saturday game, no easy way to get there...come back to Tulsa and then leave again on Thursday for Fort Wayne. The kids missed several classes.
Quote from: a3uge on March 26, 2014, 03:00:15 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 12:28:42 PM
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 11:45:39 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AM
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...
It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League)
Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly. It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU. Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later? Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son? You can answer that for yourself. In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant.
Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result. So what did we lose by waiting 7 years? We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story. Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.
So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year? Again, you can answer that for yourself.
:clap:...
Pretty much sums that up in a nutshell
So if was a lateral move, why would you be clapping wh? What would it matter if we didn't join the Horizon or not in 2001 as opposed to 2007?
:banghead: Seriously? ???
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 27, 2014, 09:28:21 AM
Quote from: a3uge on March 26, 2014, 03:00:15 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 12:28:42 PM
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2014, 11:45:39 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on March 26, 2014, 10:42:26 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 25, 2014, 09:35:09 AM
Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.
Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...
It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League)
Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly. It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU. Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later? Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son? You can answer that for yourself. In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant.
Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result. So what did we lose by waiting 7 years? We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story. Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.
So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year? Again, you can answer that for yourself.
:clap:...
Pretty much sums that up in a nutshell
So if was a lateral move, why would you be clapping wh? What would it matter if we didn't join the Horizon or not in 2001 as opposed to 2007?
:banghead: Seriously? ???
So its a lateral move but its not and we should all be disappointed in being in the Horizon League, got it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
It's simple. Might be considered lateral as of now, but prior and at the time of the change, it was a step up. :o shocker, right? :crazy:
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 27, 2014, 10:12:04 AM
It's simple. Might be considered lateral as of now, but prior and at the time of the change, it was a step up. :o shocker, right? :crazy:
So 1998 MidCon = 2014 Horizon League?
In 1998 we went 23-9. We tied for the regular season title in the MidCon. We won the conference tourney. What did we end up with? A 15 seed. Can you even imagine winning the regular season and the conference tourney in the 2014 Horizon League and winding up a 15 seed? Can you imagine the top team of the Horizon being a 125 RPI, despite having single digit losses? Even after Butler left, we've had MULTIPLE teams in the top 50 RPI. In 2000 the highest RPI team was Valpo... at 193. ONE NINETY THREE! How can you even begin to say that the 1997-2001 MidCon is the same as what we have now? The 1997-2007 MidCon/Summit league finished 20+ in RPI standings every year! Even since Butler left, we've been a top 13 RPI league. To discount the entire league based off of Green Bay not winning the conference tournament is absolutely absurd.
I don't know how anyone could honestly believe that we have the same disadvantages in recruiting now that we did at any point in the Mid Con. I don't know how anyone could honestly believe we have don't have a better opportunity to be successful than when we were in the Mid Con where winning the regular season still meant 15-16 seed. When we won the Mid Con 4 times after the Sweet 16 run, our average seed was a 15. If we won the Horizon 3 more times in the next 5 years, do you think our average seed would be a 15?
Quote from: a3uge on March 27, 2014, 12:34:23 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 27, 2014, 10:12:04 AM
It's simple. Might be considered lateral as of now, but prior and at the time of the change, it was a step up. :o shocker, right? :crazy:
So 1998 MidCon = 2014 Horizon League?
In 1998 we went 23-9. We tied for the regular season title in the MidCon. We won the conference tourney. What did we end up with? A 15 seed. Can you even imagine winning the regular season and the conference tourney in the 2014 Horizon League and winding up a 15 seed? Can you imagine the top team of the Horizon being a 125 RPI, despite having single digit losses? Even after Butler left, we've had MULTIPLE teams in the top 50 RPI. In 2000 the highest RPI team was Valpo... at 193. ONE NINETY THREE! How can you even begin to say that the 1997-2001 MidCon is the same as what we have now? The 1997-2007 MidCon/Summit league finished 20+ in RPI standings every year! Even since Butler left, we've been a top 13 RPI league. To discount the entire league based off of Green Bay not winning the conference tournament is absolutely absurd.
I don't know how anyone could honestly believe that we have the same disadvantages in recruiting now that we did at any point in the Mid Con. I don't know how anyone could honestly believe we have don't have a better opportunity to be successful than when we were in the Mid Con where winning the regular season still meant 15-16 seed. When we won the Mid Con 4 times after the Sweet 16 run, our average seed was a 15. If we won the Horizon 3 more times in the next 5 years, do you think our average seed would be a 15?
Well said indeed!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
The gap between the HL and SL is closer now than when it was when we changed.
Only in regards to the fact that the top team (NDSU) had an RPI of 33. Just about everyone else has the same distribution that the SL always had before. Playing against a team with a 33 RPI twice in one season, helped that A LOT
I would think that next season will resolve this even more. NDSU losing five starters while several teams in the Horizon should be very good. (CSU, GB, Valpo, Milwaukee) Should be a down year for WSU but they didn't have a very good rpi last year.
Do we have any real proof that Valpo was actually invited to the HL in 2001?
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 27, 2014, 05:01:53 PM
Do we have any real proof that Valpo was actually invited to the HL in 2001?
I have stated that Valpo was invited to the HL in the past. Wright State's AD was the head of the HL expansion committee at that time and I had many conversations with him about who the HL was targeting. If you do not want to believe me that is fine but take a step back and look at things logically. The HL had 3 private schools back then and they wanted the next addition to be another private school. The public schools at that time didn't really care. They just wanted the best addition to the conference. We had to add a team at that time to keep one of our automatic NCAA bids for one of our sports. I honestly don't remember which sport it was it has been too many years. The majority of the HL wanted to add Valpo. Your AD was against the move because of his family relationship to the SL commish. That is why you turned down the invite and we were stuck adding YSU. Like I said earlier, using basic logic, can you think of one single reason why anyone in the HL would have preferred to add YSU over Valpo. Valpo had basketball success. You were a private school and you were located in the heart o the HL. YSU offered nothing but the ability to keep that automatic bid. Why would the HL decide to pick YSU over Valpo? The truth is we didn't. Valpo turned us down.
Shaka Smart turned down the Marquette job. Don't get nervous.
D - thank youfor this analysis. Valpo was nepotism running amok, that is pretty obvious.
Got it. Big D confirmed it. Who needs a single sniff of this from any kind of local or national media outlet if Big D confirmed it?
Quote from: ARCInsider on March 27, 2014, 11:08:07 PM
Got it. Big D confirmed it. Who needs a single sniff of this from any kind of local or national media outlet if Big D confirmed it?
Since there was and is no value for the HL then or now to make public an expression of interest that was rejected, I would think this type of confirmation is as good as we may ever get. In retrospect the decision that VU made looks much worse now than it would have then, but it was still a mistake.
Let's be clear - Bill Steinbrecher was one of the founders of the Mid-Con, and his son Jon was the commish. In 1999 to 2001, the Mid-Con as a whole was a bunch of rag tag teams in deperate need of joining a conference. The Valpo hoop stock was getting high, and from several sources the Horizon league invited them to join. Valpo said no to the offer.
Whether or not VU turned down the HL is not as critical as the absolute lack of urgency in maintaining facility upgrades, and particularly those for its flagship athletic program. What it has done to its basketball program by not providing it with a suitable collegiate venue is criminal.
Again, IMO, from a conference affiliation standpoint, the move to the HL put Valpo in a position that it was before, or slightly above where it was before in 1994 as far as conference relationships are concerned. The old Mid-Con was a multiple bid league. So too was the HL. Whether we would have joined the HL in 2001 or later is of no consequence in this respect because we would have already still been charter members of the Mid-Con with Cleveland State, UIC, and UWGB, and former conference mates with Wright State, Milwaukee, Youngstown and Butler. The only two schools that shared non-conference history with VU was LUC and UD. As a result, the only thing that changed in a move to the HL from a conference relationship standpoint for VU was that for the first time at the D-I level, Valpo had achieved membership in a conference that had a generally balanced public and private mix. But that is it--nothing more or less.
Quote from: historyman on March 26, 2014, 01:51:50 PMIt had been only a few years before that 5 of the schools in the Mid-Con had left Valpo behind and jumped to the MCCities after promising to stay in the Mid-Con at one of it's administration meetings. Do you jump back into the lions den?
THANK YOU!
Look, I was never terribly impressed with Bill Steinbrecher the few times I talked to him, but he was hardly the pariah some make him out to be either. And I am certainly not accepting on face value what BigDWSU says about 2001 either (h/t IndyValpo on that one). If I'm at the helm when a whole bunch of schools depart under the cloak of darkness and then they come back 7 years later and invite me to join them, I'll be darned if I'm jumping at the invitation.
The passage of time is the best explanation for Valpo accepting in 2007 what they declined in 2001, along with the change of administrations. Mark L. has no reason to hold a grudge for something that didn't happen on his watch, plus I get the feeling some of the other players in the 1994 ambush had also moved on to retirement or other posts.
The only other point of view I remember was that of RLH who used to always say that it was a difficult decision between being a big fish in a little pond and being a little fish in a big pond. It's not like it was a simple decision to make.
By the way, both #ShakaWatch and the time line of @ShakaWatch have been LOLOLOLOLOL all week long. I don't know how mature it is, but I've loved every minute of it.
I did not realize @PantherU got sucked into it, however.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 28, 2014, 06:18:49 PMI did not realize @PantherU got sucked into it, however.
he may not really have...i think those are fabricated tweets.
hilarious, but fabricated nonetheless.
...at least, i hope so.
like this:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/lemmetweet/tweet/imgs/foHFSIxpUpYceMQyAZsrLuJw.jpg20140329-2-1f1stlp?1396053687)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 28, 2014, 07:42:36 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 28, 2014, 06:18:49 PMI did not realize @PantherU got sucked into it, however.
he may not really have...i think those are fabricated tweets.
hilarious, but fabricated nonetheless.
...at least, i hope so.
like this:
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/lemmetweet/tweet/imgs/foHFSIxpUpYceMQyAZsrLuJw.jpg20140329-2-1f1stlp?1396053687)
Nicely done Apostle. Hilarious!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 28, 2014, 07:42:36 PMhe may not really have...i think those are fabricated tweets.
I figured all but the first one mentioned were fabricated, but I guess I thought the first one was real.
lol
I have to agree that the 1994 move by GB, Milw, UIC, CSU, Northern Illinois and WSU was one of the most egregious sins ever committed by some schools to another school in the history of college athletics. Six universities lied to the face of Jon Steinbrecher during a conference meeting saying they were going to stay with the Mid-Con while all six were plotting to leave the conference. BigDWSU will never admit something like that. It greatly would have effected any decision about conferences that Valpo and Bill Steinbrecher had to make.
If you talk to the former AD's at Youngstown State, Eastern Illinois and Western Illinois in private they would admit that is what happened. I'm not sure that those AD's and presidents would have voted to join the defection if they had also been invited.
Quote from: bbtds on March 28, 2014, 11:30:54 PM
I have to agree that the 1994 move by GB, Milw, UIC, CSU, Northern Illinois and WSU was one of the most egregious sins ever committed by some schools to another school in the history of college athletics. Six universities lied to the face of Jon Steinbrecher during a conference meeting saying they were going to stay with the Mid-Con while all six were plotting to leave the conference. BigDWSU will never admit something like that. It greatly would have effected any decision about conferences that Valpo and Bill Steinbrecher had to make.
Valpo was asked to join the HL with the rest of us and Bill Steinbrecher turned us down then. Just like he turned down the HL in 2001. You might have been told differently by him, but what else is he going to tell you. The truth wouldn't exactly have sounded the best for him--hey guys I decided to turn down an invite to join a much better conference with lower travel costs because my son is the commish of our current conference and I am more concerned about my family than what is in Valpo's best interest. I'm sure it was much easier to tell everyone that Valpo was screwed over by all of the schools that left the SL in 1994. I don't care if you want to believe me or not, but take a step back and look at the situation again logically. Your AD had a vested interest in staying in the SL. If GB, UWM, UIC, CSU, and WSU all committed such an egregious sin against Valpo in 1994 as you suggest, it doesn't make any sense for Valpo to turn around and join all of us in the HL a decade later? If your wife cheats on you and leaves you for another man, you don't turn around a decade later and move in with the 2 of them. It doesn't make sense and I think you know it.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 28, 2014, 10:10:29 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 28, 2014, 07:42:36 PMhe may not really have...i think those are fabricated tweets.
I figured all but the first one mentioned were fabricated, but I guess I thought the first one was real.
lol
The first one WAS real - he did tweet that he believed the best source, which was some random dude that isn't a journalist and runs a basketball camp. He was incredibly wrong. Goes to show the amount of lying and misinformation there is around sports. Not that the "source" lied, but someone he believed was lying. Never believe any announcement until it's done.
This thread is interesting and entertaining at the same time. In all fairness I never saw a bigger smoozer for Valpo than Jon Steinbrecher. Nice guy, but according to him valpo athletics had no room for improvement. If you look at this objectively there was nepotism.
QuoteMarquette found its replacement for Buzz Williams in Mike Krzyzewski's coaching tree.
The Golden Eagles introduced Duke assistant Steve Wojciechowski as their next men's basketball coach Tuesday, with Krzyzewski's longtime right-hand man saying he wants to follow his mentor's lead while bringing his new program to similar heights.
http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/story?storyId=10708664&src=desktop (http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/story?storyId=10708664&src=desktop)
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2014, 11:26:56 AM
You have got to be f***ing kidding me about him even being within 100 miles of the Skip Prosser award. It's an absolute joke that he is even mentioned with anything moral...
I guess you can file this is the "Believe It or Not" file: Brian Wardle has been named the
Skip Prosser Man of the Year, an award "to honor those who not only achieve success on the basketball court but who display moral integrity off of it as well." ???
Apparently, he was selected above every other coach in the nation, including fellow finalists: Roman Banks (Southern University), John Becker (Vermont), Glenn Braica (St. Francis Brooklyn), Dick Hunsaker (Utah Valley), Tony Jasick (IPFW), Joe Jones (Boston University), Mike Krzyzewski (Duke), Paul Lusk (Missouri State), Phil Martelli (St. Joseph's), Randy Rahe (Weber State), Monte Ross (Delaware), Wayne Tinkle (Montana), Michael White (Louisiana Tech) and Jay Wright (Villanova).
http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209452725&DB_OEM_ID=22500 (http://www.greenbayphoenix.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209452725&DB_OEM_ID=22500)
Holy crap, that is absolutely pathetic.
and PantherU did not write this. Where is this sports world going? Pathetic, man.
Did they not Google his name before voting? Like there's literally not a single better man in college basketball than the guy that is most notable for being a horrible person?
How does this happen? Seriously, did he develop a cure for cancer or something and I don't know about it?
I would think that it was given as a consolation prize for not getting into the NCAA tournament when many of the voters thought GB should have made it. That is the only way I can think the voters could justify their selection. Many obviously did not read about the controversy involving Wardle during the summer.
Well, if they are going to give a Nobel Peace Prize to just about anyone, including terrorists, I think it's ok to give the Skip Prosser Award to sociopaths.
(http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/02/sochi-games-weekend-recap-plushenko-axel-rose/.i.19.17-THATS-%20:censored:.gif)
Quote from: bbtds on April 04, 2014, 05:36:48 PM
I would think that it was given as a consolation prize for not getting into the NCAA tournament when many of the voters thought GB should have made it. That is the only way I can think the voters could justify their selection. Many obviously did not read about the controversy involving Wardle during the summer.
Here's what I read regarding the "controversy", did he do something else? is there more than this?
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9308960/wisconsin-green-bay-coach-brian-wardle-keep-job-investigation (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9308960/wisconsin-green-bay-coach-brian-wardle-keep-job-investigation)
Edit: sorry, not going to feed the troll
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 04, 2014, 08:21:08 PM
Well, if they are going to give a Nobel Peace Prize to just about anyone, including terrorists, I think it's ok to give the Skip Prosser Award to sociopaths.
True, Al Gore did sell Current TV to Al Zajeera for $500 million. I don't know if that qualifies him as a terrorist, an enemy sympathizer in the war on terror, or just a weasel that sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver.
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 06, 2014, 05:17:10 PMHere's what I read regarding the "controversy", did he do something else? is there more than this? http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9308960/wisconsin-green-bay-coach-brian-wardle-keep-job-investigation (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9308960/wisconsin-green-bay-coach-brian-wardle-keep-job-investigation)
Unlike many on this board, most of the working class of northwest Ind frequently make vulgar, obscene and even racial comments followed by a nonstop banter of verbal abuse and homophobic accusations. Such behavior is what many blue-collar working people refer to as "entertainment".
So as best as I can tell, Wardle is without question guilty of recruiting a kid so stupid or spineless that he was unable to run off the floor when it became necessary; and being extremely crude in an all male (good old boy) environment. And for these sins the board group-think has determined that Brian Wardle is no better than gutter slime and maybe much worse. Through some kind of extrapolation process we have also concluded that he must not know much about coaching basketball either.
Very interesting!
Quote from: wh on April 06, 2014, 06:08:44 PMTrue, Al Gore did sell Current TV to Al Zajeera for $500 million
...Al Gore won a NPP? Never mind, I stopped paying attention after they spurned John Paul the Great for Yasser Arafat.
Quote from: a3uge on April 06, 2014, 05:33:47 PM
Edit: sorry, not going to feed the troll
Hmm, I am now a troll. Do I get my own doll?
I am serious...bad language was the jist of the issue? That's the problem everybody has such an issue with? I've heard much worse...in high school sports. Oh well.
"Other people do it, are racist, and I've heard worse"
Arguments why Brian Wardle should have been named MAN OF THE YEAR.
Seriously guys, there's a difference between a "hard nosed coach that must use gay slurs and insult players that crapped their pants in public from an intense workout" and "Man of the Year" - but I guess I'm just group-thinking at this point. But I guess in your eyes as long as you're not saying racist things, you're a prime candidate for Man of the Year! Logical!
And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.
Speaking of the "Man of the Year" ::) I vaguely recall about a year ago after Bryce was snubbed for COY several members of the brotherhood enlightening me about how it's more or less an unwritten rule that the coach of the team that wins the league doesn't get COY unless his team wasn't predicted to win the league. I guess it's less an unwritten rule this year...
Quote from: wh on April 07, 2014, 09:31:04 AMI guess it's less an unwritten rule this year...
+10 memory points for you!
Also, +10 humor :)
Quote from: a3uge on April 06, 2014, 09:03:57 PM
And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.
Ah, you're one of the Kool Aid crowd. My bad.
Quote from: a3uge on April 06, 2014, 09:01:34 PM
...Seriously guys, there's a difference between a "hard nosed coach that must use gay slurs and insult players that crapped their pants in public from an intense workout" and "Man of the Year"...
I put the kid crapping himself on the player. If you need your coach to tell you it's okay to go potty while you're a college student running a drill, you have
WAY bigger issues than some coach yelling at you. At some point you have to walk (or in this case likely run) to the bathroom and deal with the consequences later. Just crapping yourself isn't a good decision unless you're 2 years old. I can't fault the coach for that.
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 07, 2014, 03:41:54 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 06, 2014, 09:01:34 PM
...Seriously guys, there's a difference between a "hard nosed coach that must use gay slurs and insult players that crapped their pants in public from an intense workout" and "Man of the Year"...
I put the kid crapping himself on the player. If you need your coach to tell you it's okay to go potty while you're a college student running a drill, you have WAY bigger issues than some coach yelling at you. At some point you have to walk (or in this case likely run) to the bathroom and deal with the consequences later. Just crapping yourself isn't a good decision unless you're 2 years old. I can't fault the coach for that.
So using gay slurs and calling a player a piece of :censored: should make the guy man of the year? Cool. Got it.
You're just standing up for him because you like trolling and calling fans here sheep. If Bryce Drew was in the same situation, you'd be outraged over it.
OK, a few things -
Wardle was an ass and made mistakes. Perhaps he learned from this and improved. Who knows. As Christians, are we not supposed to forgive.
a3uge - there is nothing wrong critiquing the homies. For example, for the football team, it is completely fair and accurate to say that the fans are great, the conference sucks and the teams sucks. The last 4 years they were 3-41 - I mean what you supposed to say? From there we have room for improvement. There are folks on this board who think it is blasphemous that you criticize the home team as if Valpo can do no wrong.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 07, 2014, 07:10:39 PM
OK, a few things -
Wardle was an ass and made mistakes. Perhaps he learned from this and improved. Who knows. As Christians, are we not supposed to forgive.
a3uge - there is nothing wrong critiquing the homies. For example, for the football team, it is completely fair and accurate to say that the fans are great, the conference sucks and the teams sucks. The last 4 years they were 3-41 - I mean what you supposed to say? From there we have room for improvement. There are folks on this board who think it is blasphemous that you criticize the home team as if Valpo can do no wrong.
Again, there's a difference between forgiveness and awarding the guy "man of the year" 9 months after an investigation started on him.
And I don't think anyone here would bat an eye if someone said something negative about the football team. Everyone knows it has sucked for almost a decade. But here we flip it around: if you state your beliefs and they are somewhat positive towards the program, you're drinking the Kool Aid, engaging in groupthink, even if its a position like "the Horizon League is better than the Summit League" or "A coach that appeared in multiple newspapers for abusing players should be man of the year."
I'm not saying he should be tarred and feathered, but at the very least he shouldn't be named MAN OF THE YEAR.
very well said my friend. And please forgive me on the football comparison - the overpatience of the team and Dale Carlson's coaching was beyond ridiculas.
Bryce Drew is doing a good job as coach - not great, not bad, not average - good. Not as good as his dad, better than Tom Smith. He has much to learn and he learned alot from this rebuilding season. The senior class was below par for Valpo standards.
If there is anything I disagree on, it is Valpo's historical lack of aggression in joining a stronger conference and the nepotism preventing this. It is old news, but I think in the long run it would have enhanced the basketball program.
(http://cdn87.psbin.com/img/mw=150/mh=200/cr=n/d=wbyll/jbfm8fbzya5g54qi.jpg)
Ryan Bross
(http://www.wearegreenbay.com/media/lib/96/5/c/a/5caeabf3-bfa8-4f32-87dd-57a26599799d/Story.jpg)
And the girl that Coach Wardle made a suggestion to Ryan Bross about
Ryan Bross @Rbross27 Feb 18
My #wcw look at how adorable she is with her nose wrinkle. I love her! @AbigailStoll pic.twitter.com/ddpSK1MAis
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bg0O9dPIAAAZMsn.jpg)
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 07, 2014, 08:38:43 PM
Bryce Drew is doing a good job as coach - not great, not bad, not average - good. Not as good as his dad, better than Tom Smith. He has much to learn and he learned alot from this rebuilding season. The senior class was below par for Valpo standards.
With 2 1st place finishes and a 4th in his first 3 years, Bryce Drew is doing a
very good job as coach - not great
(yet), not bad, not average -
very good.
Not as good as Far better than his dad
at the same stage in his Valpo coaching career,
100 times better than Tom Smith
at the same stage. He
has much to learn continues to grow and develop as a coach and
I'm sure he learned a lot from this rebuilding season.
Overall, The senior class
was below par for Valpo standards did not meet our expectations,
other than HL 1st team All Conference player Lavonte Dority, of course.See how easy it is to be positive... ;)
OMG...A Cub fan is on board!!!
Not sure I am 100% there on your assessment. Drew is good, but he is no Kevin Ollie...
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 08, 2014, 01:03:55 PM
OMG...A Cub fan is on board!!!
Not sure I am 100% there on your assessment. Drew is good, but he is no Kevin Ollie...
I don't know about that. Apples and oranges. give Bryce three NBA quality players and watch what he does!! ;)
Quote from: a3uge on April 07, 2014, 08:15:40 PMAgain, there's a difference between forgiveness and awarding the guy "man of the year" 9 months after an investigation started on him.
I have to agree. There is a huge gap between what Wardle was accused of to being named the Skip Prosser Award winner. I don't see how a coach moves basically from one end of the spectrum to the other so quickly.
Quote from: bbtds on April 09, 2014, 12:16:49 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 07, 2014, 08:15:40 PMAgain, there's a difference between forgiveness and awarding the guy "man of the year" 9 months after an investigation started on him.
I have to agree. There is a huge gap between what Wardle was accused of to being named the Skip Prosser Award winner. I don't see how a coach moves basically from one end of the spectrum to the other so quickly.
I agree as well. There is a big difference between forgiving negative behavior, which everyone deserves as long as they are contrite and try to change their ways, and reinforcing sociopathic actions, which this, IMO, clearly did. In today's world, the type of behavior that was exhibited is flat out abuse. Kids on HS teams and college teams are severely disciplined for hazing; seasons have been cancelled. Husbands who exhibit that kind of behavior and verbal abuse receive restraining orders. Fraternities have been thrown off campus for pledging practices that are similar to what he used. Ah, but he was "motivating" his players to be all they could be. Yeah, right. A$$**** of the year? Sure. Man of the Year? I think not.
Quote from: a3uge on April 06, 2014, 09:03:57 PM
And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.
Anybody else find it hypocritical that the guy calling somebody names is b!tching about foul language and name calling? Things that make you go hmm... ???
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 09, 2014, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 06, 2014, 09:03:57 PM
And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.
Anybody else find it hypocritical that the guy calling somebody names is b!tching about foul language and name calling? Things that make you go hmm... ???
BUT NOBODY IS NOMINATING ME FOR MAN OF THE YEAR HHHHMMMMMM
Quote from: a3uge on April 09, 2014, 10:07:06 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 09, 2014, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 06, 2014, 09:03:57 PM
And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.
Anybody else find it hypocritical that the guy calling somebody names is b!tching about foul language and name calling? Things that make you go hmm... ???
BUT NOBODY IS NOMINATING ME FOR MAN OF THE YEAR HHHHMMMMMM
No kidding. That's not something you have to worry about anytime soon.
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 09, 2014, 10:10:44 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 09, 2014, 10:07:06 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 09, 2014, 10:06:14 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 06, 2014, 09:03:57 PM
And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.
Anybody else find it hypocritical that the guy calling somebody names is b!tching about foul language and name calling? Things that make you go hmm... ???
BUT NOBODY IS NOMINATING ME FOR MAN OF THE YEAR HHHHMMMMMM
No kidding. That's not something you have to worry about anytime soon.
If can't see a difference between me calling someone a troll and an NCAA coach saying he should f-%$ his gf to play better/is a piece of s$% after he craps his pants in public from sprints while having the flu, then... well... I don't know. If Bryce Drew said the same thing you'd be all over him demanding his job be taken away, not proclaiming him man of the year.
I guess you're leaving so no sense continuing this.
Quote from: a3uge on April 09, 2014, 10:23:28 PM
I guess you're leaving so no sense continuing this.
Yep, and you're a big reason why.
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 10, 2014, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: a3uge on April 09, 2014, 10:23:28 PM
I guess you're leaving so no sense continuing this.
Yep, and you're a big reason why.
A shame really. 437 members here and 1 is a big reason why you are leaving.
c'mon guys let's not take so this so seriously. there is nothing wrong having different views. Let's have a beer summit and resolve this.
a3uge - There's plenty of opportunity to name-call outside of our own brotherhood. Besides, milan isn't a troll and I think you know he isn't.
milan - As someone who regularly challenges the majority view, you have to know that people are going to challenge you back.
The truth is both of you guys are valued contributors. Let me make a simple suggestion that you take a deep breath, back off each other a little, and forget about it. Hopefully, the last thing either of you would do is stop posting or quit the board entirely over a difference of opinion that got a little out of hand.
Quote from: wh on April 10, 2014, 12:37:27 PM
a3uge - There's plenty of opportunity to name-call outside of our own brotherhood. Besides, milan isn't a troll and I think you know he isn't.
milan - As someone who regularly challenges the majority view, you have to know that people are going to challenge you back.
The truth is both of you guys are valued contributors. Let me make a simple suggestion that you take a deep breath, back off each other a little, and forget about it. Hopefully, the last thing either of you would do is stop posting or quit the board entirely over a difference of opinion that got a little out of hand.
Ditto to these thoughts but allow me to rephrase it to the ducky way of thinking.
Milan we already know that you can shake off a haymaker then wade in to land some nasty body blows and counterpunches. So why is it that a3uge has thrown you a few pat-pat love taps and you are ready to run home to your mother crying? Crying has never been tolerated on this board and we will make no exceptions even for you. So I challenge you to man-up, remove that skirt (it doesn't become you), jump back in the ring and be ready to go another 10 rounds.
I just can not believe that you would be tempted to throw in the towel because of a lightweight like a3uge. :o
Quote from: justducky on April 10, 2014, 01:57:26 PMI just can not believe that you would be tempted to throw in the towel because of a lightweight like a3uge.
Actually, just the opposite...problem is he's punching above his weight class.
Quote from: justducky on April 10, 2014, 01:57:26 PM
Quote from: wh on April 10, 2014, 12:37:27 PM
a3uge - There's plenty of opportunity to name-call outside of our own brotherhood. Besides, milan isn't a troll and I think you know he isn't.
milan - As someone who regularly challenges the majority view, you have to know that people are going to challenge you back.
The truth is both of you guys are valued contributors. Let me make a simple suggestion that you take a deep breath, back off each other a little, and forget about it. Hopefully, the last thing either of you would do is stop posting or quit the board entirely over a difference of opinion that got a little out of hand.
Ditto to these thoughts but allow me to rephrase it to the ducky way of thinking.
Milan we already know that you can shake off a haymaker then wade in to land some nasty body blows and counterpunches. So why is it that a3uge has thrown you a few pat-pat love taps and you are ready to run home to your mother crying? Crying has never been tolerated on this board and we will make no exceptions even for you. So I challenge you to man-up, remove that skirt (it doesn't become you), jump back in the ring and be ready to go another 10 rounds.
I just can not believe that you would be tempted to throw in the towel because of a lightweight like a3uge. :o
Instead of boxing can we just do a thumb war?
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 10, 2014, 11:17:44 AMc'mon guys let's not take so this so seriously. there is nothing wrong having different views. Let's have a beer summit and resolve this.
Quote from: a3uge on April 10, 2014, 02:20:55 PMInstead of boxing can we just do a thumb war?
Hey if this turns into a full scale bar room brawl will it be OK for us old timers to use some of the empty bottles as equalizers? If not I may have to stay home and listen to the play by play, blow by blow radio account. Any chance that chef will be calling it "Live from Duffys"?
Quote from: justducky on April 10, 2014, 03:34:50 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 10, 2014, 11:17:44 AMc'mon guys let's not take so this so seriously. there is nothing wrong having different views. Let's have a beer summit and resolve this.
Quote from: a3uge on April 10, 2014, 02:20:55 PMInstead of boxing can we just do a thumb war?
Hey if this turns into a full scale bar room brawl will it be OK for us old timers to use some of the empty bottles as equalizers? If not I may have to stay home and listen to the play by play, blow by blow radio account. Any chance that chef will be calling it "Live from Duffys"?
I just got my nails purified, so careful with any beer spills on them.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 10, 2014, 02:02:41 PM
Quote from: justducky on April 10, 2014, 01:57:26 PMI just can not believe that you would be tempted to throw in the towel because of a lightweight like a3uge.
Actually, just the opposite...problem is he's punching above his weight class.
Are you calling me fat???
Quote from: a3uge on April 10, 2014, 03:53:03 PMAre you calling me fat???
well you are from Milwaukee...
srsly, tho, meaning that he was trying to defend Wardle.
well, even the nuremberg trials had defense lawyers.
Great comments. I am in Liberty Missouri this weekend at a dance competition. About 2 miles from here is William Jewell college, former alma mater of Homer Drew, and one of many, many schools who defeated the Osteen quoter's football express
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 10, 2014, 07:34:21 PMwell, even the nuremberg trials had defense lawyers.
Yup, which is exactly why I was pleased to see Milan weigh in with his take on the Wardle issue. For all these months no one (except me) had made any attempt to defend Wardle from what I would characterize as an almost slanderous bombardment .
Look, the good people of Green Bay have chosen to retain Brian Wardle as their coach and the great majority of Horizon League basketball fans (including Milan and myself) do not consider him to be a great embarrassment to the league. Therefor the fact that he is capable of being a mid-twentieth century politically incorrect ass (currently under firm UWGB control) would seen not to be our problem or concern. My take on the man is actually open and positive enough that if he were recruiting a grandson, or a friends son or grandson I would try to impose no roadblocks other than some cautionary statements of the facts.
All of that may be true.
But can you say that Brian Wardle deserves an award as "Man of the Year", at least as awarded by anyone other than The Makers of Adult Depends™?
One might even be able to make a better case for a president deserving his Nobel Peace Prize.
I could write about this issue to ad nauseam. Suffice it to say that I am not currently involved with basketball because of a situation in which our staff was falsely accused of impropriety. Universities are extremely political and if you find yourself in the wrong camp, like we did with a new AD who wanted to bring in his own people, even the fact that we were historically successful in the four years we lead the program still did not save us from the rumors and innuendo that were perpetrated against us. Despite the new AD getting himself fired just a few days later, when some of his deceptions were made evident, we did not get our jobs back.
So I find myself unwilling to take sides in this issue. Yes I normally always err on the side of the student athlete, finding that support and tough love normally prove to be more effective than ugly criticism and sarcasm. And with that I have to say that Brian Wardle's friends must be more powerful and politically savvy than his detractors. Him retaining his job and having the support of some of the players forces me to think that there must be some merit to his remaining at Green Bay. Receiving this award so close to the time he found himself in coaching duress is perhaps a little unusual, but something his supporters probably pushed for in order to get his career back on track.
I think the official MOY announcement from CollegeInsider.com has done Brian Wardle a great disservice by not publicizing even one example where he displayed "moral integrity outside of basketball" that sets him apart from everyone else. Presumably, his list must be a lengthy one, full of acts of kindness and innumerable examples where he has used his time, talents and financial resources in service to his university, community, church, friends and neighbors. I assume he has such a list, because how else could he possibly have won such an award as "Man of the Year?" After all, there are dozens of coaches out there with better basketball resumes.
I did a Google search for Brian Wardle "the man," but nothing came up (except the alleged bullying situation). That's understandable, of course. Men of the Year are humble, kind, soft-spoken. They operate beneath the radar screen. They deflect credit to others. They are uncomfortable in the limelight. They are people we know - but we don't know. Again, it's a shame that College Insider didn't give us some insight into the man-behind-the-man. Here we may have Mother Teresa in basketball shoes and we don't even know it.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 10, 2014, 07:34:21 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 10, 2014, 03:53:03 PMAre you calling me fat???
well you are from Milwaukee...
srsly, tho, meaning that he was trying to defend Wardle.
well, even the nuremberg trials had defense lawyers.
On that note...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXEcgyu8LY&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXEcgyu8LY&feature=player_embedded)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 12, 2014, 10:12:46 AM
All of that may be true.
But can you say that Brian Wardle deserves an award as "Man of the Year", at least as awarded by anyone other than The Makers of Adult Depends™?
One might even be able to make a better case for a president deserving his Nobel Peace Prize.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/obama_not_amused.gif)
President Obama just got word of your subtle jab, LAA...here is some footage just released from CNN with his response...
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hes_dead.gif)
Buzz was at the Fieldhouse in Merrillville yesterday. Midwest Elite had a practice there. He had to be looking at Skara although I left immensely impressed with Zoran Talley. How did we not get him.