Brian O'Rourke, Valpo's VP of Enrollment has resigned after only 18 months on the job. Padilla said that it wasn't a forced resignation but one has to wonder why a guy would move his family from California to Valpo if he wasn't planning for a little longer stay. Stay tuned. The search is on for a replacement which might be a little harder to find based on O'Rourke's experience.
Quote from: vu72 on November 20, 2022, 09:44:42 AM
Brian O'Rourke, Valpo's VP of Enrollment has resigned after only 18 months on the job. Padilla said that it wasn't a forced resignation but one has to wonder why a guy would move his family from California to Valpo if he wasn't planning for a little longer stay. Stay tuned. The search is on for a replacement which might be a little harder to find based on O'Rourke's experience.
Yikes...personal and family reasons cited for the resignation. Sometimes that's true, other times....
Right now, being a VP for enrollment is one of the most high-pressure jobs in academe. And even more challenging at a school that just did major cuts to positions and programs.
I'll say it again: VU has a much stronger identity than many other more amorphous, private, regionally-oriented universities out there. And because it's not a huge school, it doesn't need thousands upon thousands of new students enrolling each year. If it can find a way to hone its niche and then promote it, it can thrive and not merely survive.
Quote from: David81 on November 20, 2022, 10:35:16 AM
Quote from: vu72 on November 20, 2022, 09:44:42 AM
Brian O'Rourke, Valpo's VP of Enrollment has resigned after only 18 months on the job. Padilla said that it wasn't a forced resignation but one has to wonder why a guy would move his family from California to Valpo if he wasn't planning for a little longer stay. Stay tuned. The search is on for a replacement which might be a little harder to find based on O'Rourke's experience.
Yikes...personal and family reasons cited for the resignation. Sometimes that's true, other times....
Right now, being a VP for enrollment is one of the most high-pressure jobs in academe. And even more challenging at a school that just did major cuts to positions and programs.
I'll say it again: VU has a much stronger identity than many other more amorphous, private, regionally-oriented universities out there. And because it's not a huge school, it doesn't need thousands upon thousands of new students enrolling each year. If it can find a way to hone its niche and then promote it, it can thrive and not merely survive.
While I agree that Valpo has a strong identity, it needs enough students at a low enough discount rate to cover current and near future costs. Otherwise, Valpo has take other actions or decide not to fund planned initiatives.
I don't know what happened here, but research on executives and upper echelons would suggest the most likely scenario is that he was dismissed. The second most likely scenario is that he is in line for another job and Valpo found out (and thus asked him to resign). Regardless, finding a qualified replacement in the middle of an academic year will be very difficult...and will likely require a substantial premium in salary.
It sounds like he is staying on through at least April to help train his successor. I've heard both that it was forced and that he wants to get out of Higher Ed and move into a different area of recruiting. Neither would surprise me but I lean toward the second just because it seems like a crappy time to work in higher ed over all and I've heard of several people feeling like there's a ceiling that makes them want to jump into the business world.
Think about it: Generically speaking, VP for enrollment management has to be one of the worst jobs in higher ed right now. It's truly a zero-sum game, with winners and losers, and even some of the winners these days are only breathing a sigh of relief.
From my vantage point at law schools, the best admissions directors have been folks who truly believe in the school and are relentlessly effective at communicating its strengths to prospective applicants and admitted students. And it helps a ton if the school's dean is cut from that same cloth.
Carrying out that thinking to the full university level, it would seem that a passionate advocate, not a manager, is needed for a job like that.
If he wasn't forced out--seems unlikely given the short time at Valpo--then one would have to question O'Rourke's decision to take the job in the first place. Let's see, move the family from California to Valpo and then see if we like it? I wouldn't want someone with that volatile of decision making being part of my team. I wish the best for him and his family, particularly if the decision arose based on a major health issue.
I will say that, as someone who have had friends relocate due to jobs: sometimes you don't know how you/your family will feel about a place til you are there. It can be really hard if you move to a place and your spouse hates it or, outside of the job the area is not where you want to be. Sometimes family that you moved away from have health issues or other things that change your calculus.
Staying til April seems like at the very least the parting was most likely a mutual decision and that the current VP does not want to leave Valpo in a lurch by just leaving.
Darn. I can't recall if his career was spent primarly and fully in higher education. If so, he would know the grass is not much greener anywhere else except Florida right now. And its an odd time to take a higher ed job elsewhere.
Indeed enrollment is a tough job! But starting a brand new career to work at his price point is no picnic either. We can pray that his personal and family issues resolve for him.
Either way it's a pretty clear signal that the enrollment numbers for 2023-2024 were not trending upward.
I didn't understand how the job is broader than just enrollment management: "VP for Enrollment, Marketing and Communications."
Given that there are also admissions directors at the respective schools, this sounds like more of a bird's eye level position, though I could be wrong.
I still think it would be great to have a senior person, maybe an already successful alum drawn from the NWI/Chicagoland area, who can complement the President and admissions director in selling the school to prospective students and other stakeholders.
I would argue that marketing and communications are an essential part of recruiting students...so the title seems reasonable.
A bigger part of new student recruitment and enrollment for private universities (other than Ivy League and other elite schools) is that recruitment needs to be "all hands on deck". This means that faculty need to be taking time to meet with prospective students and their families...and recruitment processes need to include that. Since faculty are not incentivized to do this (though I believe that they should do this, because it in their university's and ultimately their own best interests), this has limited many universities' abilities to overcome enrollment challenges.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 21, 2022, 10:23:45 PM
I would argue that marketing and communications are an essential part of recruiting students...so the title seems reasonable.
A bigger part of new student recruitment and enrollment for private universities (other than Ivy League and other elite schools) is that recruitment needs to be "all hands on deck". This means that faculty need to be taking time to meet with prospective students and their families...and recruitment processes need to include that. Since faculty are not incentivized to do this (though I believe that they should do this, because it in their university's and ultimately their own best interests), this has limited many universities' abilities to overcome enrollment challenges.
The "all hands on deck" approach works best when there is trust in, and affection for, the institution. That's harder to find in the wake of significant layoffs and buyouts, where, for example, a person pushed out may have been a surviving professor's best friend on the faculty. Those who remain may feel that it's disingenuous to "pitch" a school that they're not feeling good about right now.
In that sense, academe is no different than corporate America, government, or the rest of the non-profit sector: Low morale = low "citizenship" commitment. While I believe that VU's last buyout option was relatively generous compared to similar options at many other universities, I'm sure it's of little solace to remaining faculty members who have seen colleagues depart and programs pruned down or even closed.
In any event, if VU finds the right person for this position -- someone with the right skill sets and genuine buy-in with the overall institutional mission -- that individual can make a big difference in student recruitment and enrollment.
The Times article gives us a little more insight into the issues (just my interpretation!)
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/valparaiso-universitys-vp-of-enrollment-marketing-and-communications-resigns/article_112d0c04-6991-56d0-a32e-354030c70467.html
What got my attention was that nothing was said about family issues etc. What was said was that Padilla was looking for (in O'Rourke's replacement) "They must have experience in shoe-leather recruiting from the Midwest..."
This may be the issue here. O'Rourke's background was from Southern California. The Midwest, and the competitive nature of enrollments which accompanies it, just may not have been a goof fit.
Quote from: vu72 on November 23, 2022, 09:36:30 AM
The Times article gives us a little more insight into the issues (just my interpretation!)
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/valparaiso-universitys-vp-of-enrollment-marketing-and-communications-resigns/article_112d0c04-6991-56d0-a32e-354030c70467.html
What got my attention was that nothing was said about family issues etc. What was said was that Padilla was looking for (in O'Rourke's replacement) "They must have experience in shoe-leather recruiting from the Midwest..."
This may be the issue here. O'Rourke's background was from Southern California. The Midwest, and the competitive nature of enrollments which accompanies it, just may not have been a goof fit.
What got my attention was the fact that this was a story in which nothing was added by Padilla or a university spokesperson to officially released messages and O'Rourke declined to comment, which left space for negative information about the university's recent troubles: "Valparaiso University's student population was 2,964 at the start of the fall 2022 semester, according to data available on the university's website. This was a slight increase over fall 2021, when the university had a student population of 2,939. But that number has been steadily dropping since fall 2015, when it stood at 4,544. Valparaiso's retention rate for first-year students returning in 2021 was 77.3%, according to university data. That's the lowest it's been since at least 1991, the earliest data the university provides. Additionally, Valpo has discontinued a number of degree programs as a way to cut costs, including its secondary-education major, theater major and minor, Chinese minor, French major, Greek and Roman studies major and minor, and its law school...." Finally, the article declares VU has a goal of raising tuition by 10% over the next five years as part of its income revenue plan. This is not a good piece for positive public relations.
Quote from: valpo22 on November 27, 2022, 10:28:00 PM
If it helps for perspective, Wheaton College (Illinois) is looking at a deficit due to enrollment issues too.
Wheaton is better off in terms of student admit stats (Wheaton admit rate 86% vs Valpo 93%, Wheaton yield rate 32% vs Valpo 10%), but still they enrolled around 500 instead of 600+ freshmen, so they are cutting:
https://thewheatonrecord.com/2022/11/17/college-to-reduce-faculty-staff-in-significant-budget-cuts/#:~:text=Wheaton%20College%20announced%20today%20a,staff%20and%20parents%20this%20afternoon.
Thanks for posting this - it shows that VU is facing challenges similar to many of its Midwestern peers.
What caught my eye from the article is that Wheaton is cutting in some of the very same places VU has made cuts:
Wheaton: "The reduction accompanies departmental restructuring, including the transitioning of the Chinese, German and classical languages majors into minors, certificates, or concentrations starting next year. All students currently enrolled in these majors will be able to take the credits needed to complete them."
Valpo: Cuts to Theatre, Chinese minor, French minor, Greek and Roman Studies, Secondary Ed major. Currently enrolled students could finish their degrees.
Ouch. That is a shame to hear.
I always admit when I am wrong. So here goes. I had been blowing the horn for 3-4 years about diluting our identity and Christian focus and theorizing that it was hurting enrollment.
While that would be my hope for the school and it could have played a small role, I have to concede that the pandemic jarred the business model so badly that Valpo is simply taking the fallout that others face. I think Bradley got hammered as well. Another mid-sized university.
Now comes the endowment question across the board for all of higher ed. The drastic market drop of 2022 won't hurt universities immediately because most use a rolling average over 3 years to decide their spending. But it if the market continues on a sharp downward trend and goes "underwater,: all schools will have a big hole blown in their budget by academic 2024-2025.
The thing about Wheaton vs Valpo is that they have a very strong identity which means that they are going to generally have a more "interested" pool (students who do not want that are not going to "throw their hat in the ring" there like they would for a Valpo. So their yield should be higher. BUT they also are pulling from a different kind of shrinking pool as interest in organized religion continues to drop and probably will end up with less wiggle room as their general incoming class is smaller. Now they could try the Concordia/Liberty model and prop up their on campus education with an expansive on-line college but that is not going to bear fruit the more people try to do it. (I heard this is why Valpo dropped out of the Grand Canyon Deal and decided to focus on a smaller segment of on-line programs that there was a need for in the area and that they felt able to do themselves).
One other thing on majors being dropped: If students don't want them they are gong to get dropped. I heard some of the minors that were discontinued at valpo had students in the single digits in them. Some areas of study in the Liberal Arts will have value (it's always good to learn another language) but may not justify being supported by the infrastructure that is required of a major. I think one of the hard questions that needs to be asked is "Are we upholding the value of teaching liberal arts and their importance or are we upholding a specific structural way of teaching them and which is more important to us?"
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 28, 2022, 08:35:41 AMNow comes the endowment question across the board for all of higher ed. The drastic market drop of 2022 won't hurt universities immediately because most use a rolling average over 3 years to decide their spending. But it if the market continues on a sharp downward trend and goes "underwater,: all schools will have a big hole blown in their budget by academic 2024-2025.
Absolutely correct, as someone who now works in the money side of higher ed, this will be a major issue if the markets don't rebound. While we don't have many endowments that are "underwater" we do have some endowments that are restricted because of donor market value stipulations from which we will not be able to make distributions. Most people just think we can use the money as we see fit, but I am finding out that it is much more complicated than most believe. Most universities are governed by their state's acceptance of the Uniform Prudent Management of Institutional Funds Act (UPMIFA), so if you want to know how the non-profits you give to are required to invest and use your money a quick overview of this Act will give you an idea of how endowments work.
Quote from: crusader05 on November 28, 2022, 08:47:33 AMNow they could try the Concordia/Liberty model and prop up their on campus education with an expansive on-line college but that is not going to bear fruit the more people try to do it. (I heard this is why Valpo dropped out of the Grand Canyon Deal and decided to focus on a smaller segment of on-line programs that there was a need for in the area and that they felt able to do themselves).
This model was the final nail in the coffin for Concordia Portland. HotChalk Sues Concordia Portland (https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/04/20/hotchalk-sues-concordia-portland-302-million) There are major shake ups happening in the Concordia University System.
Any insight on the Belmont model that has actually increased their enrollment?
I haven't heard much about Belmont but I have heard that the Concordias are struggling pretty bad right now as well as some other smaller Lutheran schools. I have also heard that Butler has been struggling as enrollment has declined there as well as an enrollment bump they received from basketball is long gone(there are also grumbles about jumping up another conference was a bad budgetary decision).
Bradley was hurting not long ago. Not sure of Drake. That pretty well rounds out our closest peers in terms of size and structure. The Lutheran schools, Luther and St. Olaf etc, aren't really structured like Valpo.
The Concordias sound like a different animal that didn't have a good historic business model anyway.
I attended a gathering over Homecoming weekend in which President Padilla offered a few comments and answered several questions.
He stated that Butler had a good-sized freshman class this year. He acknowledged the enrollment headwinds that VU and its peer institutions face. He noted there are more Catholics on campus than Lutherans (which I think has been the case for at least 15 years and probably longer than that). During the enrollment discussion he stated "things will look much different" at VU in the future - more traditionally underrepresented students, from NW Indiana and Chicago. I don't recall the specific words he used, but that was my takeaway from his comments.
This strategy is probably necessary but it likely means that from here on out VU will be Lutheran in name only. I probably have this wrong, but I thought someone mentioned that Lutherans now make up 7% of the student body.
I realize that the days of 50% Lutherans (as it was when I enrolled in 1974) are gone for good,
but I disagree with the notion that we should be satisfied with a handful of Lutheran kids in each freshman class. A couple years ago FWalum pointed out that the Lutheran high school in Ft. Wayne was sending zero kids to VU. To borrow a phrase from my law practice, this likely does not happen in the absence of deliberate indifference by the administration.
David81 makes this point more eloquently than I ever could, but VU should take full advantage of its strong academics and Christian identity (with a recognizable dose of Lutheran heritage) in this tough enrollment environment. If we become just another university without any real identity other than being progressive (the Crusader name change is strong evidence this progressive/woke movement has already taken hold) we won't survive.
There is a strong undercurrent of resistance/resentment from many parents that too many private colleges today are simply indoctrination centers and not worth the cost. Community colleges are becoming a real option for many kids instead of a last resort. I hope President Padilla is sensitive to these trends.
Last comment -
The local paper has been engaged in a "let's get VU" campaign for several years, taking every opportunity to dunk on the university. Many of the articles, including the latest installment - thinly disguised as a report on the Enrollment VP's exit - from the NWI Times strongly suggest, or at least imply, that VU is on shaky financial ground and taking on water. Why VU does not try to combat this with press releases pointing out the many positive things going on at our school - including the recently-completed $302M campaign - is beyond me. Don't kid yourselves, these negative media reports are quite harmful.
I wonder how VU can bill itself as "The Region's University" when the local paper takes every possible opportunity possible to paint VU in a bad light. How will the effort to recruit more kids from NW Indiana/Chicagoland play out with all these hostile media reports swirling around?
Paul
For sake of curiosity I did a quick google of "bradley university budget" and found a good October 2022 article.
In a nutshell they are budgeting a $3M deficit to make timely investments and feel able to do so because they are in a strong cash position. They ended last year with a $5.8M excess due to pandemic and a retirement adjustment.
Quote from: 78crusader on November 28, 2022, 11:39:47 AM
This strategy is probably necessary but it likely means that from here on out VU will be Lutheran in name only. I probably have this wrong, but I thought someone mentioned that Lutherans now make up 7% of the student body.
I realize that the days of 50% Lutherans (as it was when I enrolled in 1974) are gone for good,
but I disagree with the notion that we should be satisfied with a handful of Lutheran kids in each freshman class. A couple years ago FWalum pointed out that the Lutheran high school in Ft. Wayne was sending zero kids to VU. To borrow a phrase from my law practice, this likely does not happen in the absence of deliberate indifference by the administration.
78, you are right. Of the new undergraduate students entering in the fall of 2022, 55 indicated they were Lutheran, which is about 7.5% of the total new undergraduate students.
BTW, 10% of new undergrads identified as Roman Catholic. Just over 54% left the response blank, unknown or preferred not to answer.
When you consider VU's traditional ties to the Fort Wayne area, to have no students from that Lutheran High School goes beyond indifference in my opinion.
Of the total 2022 fall enrollment number of 2964, 340 identified as Lutheran, or 11.5%. Romans made up 16%. I have tried diligently to ask enrollment folks if there remains an effort to attract Lutheran students to Valpo. The answer is always "yes" but when asked further whether or not it made sense for one enrollment rep to focus exclusively on Lutheran High Schools, the answer remains a "no".
Brian Beckstrom was brought on in January, 2022 as Asst. VP for Mission, Church and Ministry. His roll is described in part as "In his role as assistant vice president for mission, church and ministry, Beckstrom will be responsible for promoting, supporting and advancing the University's Lutheran mission, both internally and externally, including fostering ongoing relationships with various Lutheran denominations and other entities.
In fair comment, I think the context would say Brian is a more philosophical role in church body dialog rather than any boots on the ground.
The enrollment department's response speaks volumes about priority and focus. And of course it speaks to the overall mission alignment of the university departments' focus toward Lutheranism (not) that Heckler instilled.
Quote from: vu72 on December 01, 2022, 08:33:43 AM
Of the total 2022 fall enrollment number of 2964, 340 identified as Lutheran, or 11.5%. Romans made up 16%.
With Padilla's strategic plan focus on becoming a Hispanic Serving Institution, these Lutheran to Catholic numbers will not improve. Only 0.2% of "religious" hispanics are Lutheran, and in the overall hispanic population the number becomes negligible. A majority (nearly 60%) of all hispanics identify as Catholic.
The reports about enrollment challenges at other schools roughly comparable to VU should tell us something. It's only going to get more difficult, through no fault of VU's or that of any other institution. For many reasons, the applicant numbers simply aren't there. Personally, I think it's unwise for any regional, private university to plan on significant undergraduate enrollment growth, unless it's based on a very smart plan rather than the usual magical thinking. Furthermore, any school such as VU, whose center of gravity leans traditional while being neither "woke" nor evangelical Christian, has to push on its recruiting sweet spots, while understanding the prevailing profile of Gen Z:
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/05/14/on-the-cusp-of-adulthood-and-facing-an-uncertain-future-what-we-know-about-gen-z-so-far-2/)
Despite the challenges of building undergraduate enrollment, I would be very disappointed if VU attempted to go whole hog on creating distance learning graduate programs mainly for purposes of revenue generation. At that point, the special properties of the University give way to a model of higher education more consistent with high-volume, often for-profit universities. And personally, I have this feeling that many of these specialized masters degrees and certificate programs that are being whipped up out of thin air will eventually flame out because they are so contrived and don't deliver much value.
Concededly, these suggested avenues do not lead to any easy fix in terms of enrollment. In fact, they point to the status quo or perhaps mild expansion or mild contraction. I don't think any of these options are bad if the University can manage to stabilize itself financially while retaining and developing its core programs. Successful fundraising could be the difference here.
Diaspora hits the button of concern for me. If you broaden the identity of the school too much and you water down the teaching level, then what is the compelling value of choosing Valpo over the state university branches?
Every once in a while I wonder if IU might like to buy the campus and move their IU-Northwest branch here from the Gary campus. In that scenario, OPK's goal of marking the identity of the campus with a huge chapel building in the middle would seem to have failed. There are enough assets for VU to consume even as they run deficits. But if expediency and self-sustenance becomes the guide, then what is really the core mission?
It also seems like several donors made large gifts to permanently endow professors in a named Chair of Lutheran Music or Professor of Lutheran this or that. What percent of the student body are those instructors influencing?
Quote from: crusadermoe on December 01, 2022, 04:39:23 PM
Diaspora hits the button of concern for me. If you broaden the identity of the school too much and you water down the teaching level, then what is the compelling value of choosing Valpo over the state university branches?
Every once in a while I wonder if IU might like to buy the campus and move their IU-Northwest branch here from the Gary campus. In that scenario, OPK's goal of marking the identity of the campus with a huge chapel building in the middle would seem to have failed. There are enough assets for VU to consume even as they run deficits. But if expediency and self-sustenance becomes the guide, then what is really the core mission?
It also seems like several donors made large gifts to permanently endow professors in a named Chair of Lutheran Music or Professor of Lutheran this or that. What percent of the student body are those instructors influencing?
In terms of losing its core identity, I'm not overly concerned about VU going that route. However, with church memberships everywhere falling significantly and Gen Z applicants less likely to be closely tethered to a specific faith tradition, maintaining a strong Lutheran identity is harder to do than it was a half-century ago. In this sense VU, is in direct competition with other Lutheran-affiliated schools.
I do think that VU should relentlessly beat the drum of emphasizing development of the whole person, including deeper learning, appreciation for values and faith,
and preparation for the workforce. I don't think the University need pick, or should pick, between the liberal arts and professional/practical training. In a world that is all too given to extremes, there are still plenty of folks who appreciate the balance.
As for a Chair of Lutheran Music, if someone decides to endow it, great! Even if only a handful of students are drawn to it, any faculty position covered by a charitable gift potentially frees up money for a slot in another curricular area.
One piece I'd be interested in is what percentage of these private lutheran schools are also lutheran themselves vs parents that are just opting for a private school over a public.
I wonder if the pool even at those schools is so diluted as to it not being that valuable and in regards to having a specific admissions person targeting them, that's not the same as not focusing on them but can just be that there is not an anticipated ROI to justify a fully salaried position just for that.
Quote from: crusader05 on December 01, 2022, 06:46:35 PMOne piece I'd be interested in is what percentage of these private lutheran schools are also lutheran themselves vs parents that are just opting for a private school over a public.
Let me take a shot at this--as I was a graduate of a Lutheran High School--mine was on the east side of Cleveland. At the time, my class has 75 graduates, most coming from affiliated Lutheran grade schools across the city and burbs. Of the 75, probably 8-10 went on to Valpo with another 5 -7 going on the Concordia River Forest, now Concordia Chicago. So at Valpo, a steady stream of kids showed up from both Lutheran High Schools in Cleveland, both Lutheran High Schools in Detroit, all three in Chicago, the one in Fort Wayne and many others.
I can't comment on the other high schools but can report on mine. It is well and successful but the demographics have changed rather dramatically. What was a 95-5 white to black enrollment is likely more like 5-95 today. Very bright young folks, but it is now a Lutheran school in name only, and now serves as more of a way to avoid the local underperforming public high schools. It is a prep school where kids are not exposed to the Valpos of the world. Why they aren't is a better question. We were raised with Valpo in our grade schools. These kids probably never heard of it.
This is reflected in Lutheran colleges across the country. Concordia Chicago, which was strictly a Lutheran Teachers College in my day, now has 6084 students, 4410 of which are graduate students. Their enrollment is listed as 17.1% Lutheran, 21.2% Roman 36% Non-Christian or not reporting. St. Olaf College, located in "Lutheran Land" Minnesota, has had its Lutheran enrollment cut in half from 2001 to 2018.
It becomes a demographic issue which seems simple but really isn't. Concordia, in 1970, never dreamed of having 4400 grad students and 1600 undergrad. Yet it does, and the school remans open as a result. Valpo, no doubt, would love to have hundreds of additional Lutheran students, but students today are far less focused on religious affiliation and much more on career path only. It is what it is...
Quote from: ValpoDiaspora on December 02, 2022, 05:59:23 AMJust to clarify, the university chair in Lutheran Music is not a new position or new endowment. It's just open because the former (long-term) endowed university chair in Lutheran History voluntarily left in the era of lay-off/pay-cut chaos to go to Duke Divinity School instead, and the uni is only now re-filling it.
Just to clarify, Dr. Christopher Kock (his name is spelled with a C, but the forum software kept censoring his last name) has held the Phyllis and Richard Duesenberg Chair in Lutheran Music/Director of Bach Institute since the chair was endowed and is currently still directing the Bach Institute until at least the end of this semester. He has stepped down from the endowed chair and VU is currently advertising for the position. As a matter of fact he is conducting a performance of the Messiah at the Chapel on December 21st. I encourage all forum members to check this out. (full disclosure, my niece is one of the performers) The Bach Institute Presents: Messiah (https://app.arts-people.com/index.php?actions=10&p=1) His current university title is Senior Research Professor. I have no knowledge of him or any of the other "Lutheran" chairs going to Duke, but that is certainly a possibility and as ValpoDiaspora says it would probably be the sane thing to do.
The Duesenberg's have endowed 3 current chairs (they actually had a fourth chair in the Law School) at VU: The Phyllis and Richard Duesenberg Chair in Religion and the Arts, in Lutheran Music, in Christian Ethics. As someone who works with endowments I want to assure forum members that it is virtually impossible for an endowment to be "eaten up elsewhere in administration". Endowments at VU and nearly every non-profit higher education institution in the US are governed by UPMIFA (Uniform Prudent Management of Institutional Funds Act)
(UPMIFA is enacted in 49 of the 50 states).
Quote from: FWalum on December 02, 2022, 10:36:08 AM
Quote from: ValpoDiaspora on December 02, 2022, 05:59:23 AMJust to clarify, the university chair in Lutheran Music is not a new position or new endowment. It's just open because the former (long-term) endowed university chair in Lutheran History voluntarily left in the era of lay-off/pay-cut chaos to go to Duke Divinity School instead, and the uni is only now re-filling it.
Just to clarify, Dr. Christopher Kock (his name is spelled with a C, but the forum software kept censoring his last name) has held the Phyllis and Richard Duesenberg Chair in Lutheran Music/Director of Bach Institute since the chair was endowed and is currently still directing the Bach Institute until at least the end of this semester. He has stepped down from the endowed chair and VU is currently advertising for the position. As a matter of fact he is conducting a performance of the Messiah at the Chapel on December 21st. I encourage all forum members to check this out. (full disclosure, my niece is one of the performers) The Bach Institute Presents: Messiah (https://app.arts-people.com/index.php?actions=10&p=1) His current university title is Senior Research Professor. I have no knowledge of him or any of the other "Lutheran" chairs going to Duke, but that is certainly a possibility and as ValpoDiaspora says it would probably be the sane thing to do.
The Duesenberg's have endowed 3 current chairs (they actually had a fourth chair in the Law School) at VU: The Phyllis and Richard Duesenberg Chair in Religion and the Arts, in Lutheran Music, in Christian Ethics. As someone who works with endowments I want to assure forum members that it is virtually impossible for an endowment to be "eaten up elsewhere in administration". Endowments at VU and nearly every non-profit higher education institution in the US are governed by UPMIFA (Uniform Prudent Management of Institutional Funds Act)(UPMIFA is enacted in 49 of the 50 states).
I was told by the Head of the Music Department (Dr. Maugans), that Chris Kock is retiring.
He is I believe but the title of Senior Research Professors is often given to retiring professors so that they can continue to claim Valpo in scholarly work or utilize access to the university and it's resources without having to say, pay for access to journals etc. They may also still do some work at the university outside of teaching as a professor.
Quote from: vu72 on December 02, 2022, 11:29:14 AMI was told by the Head of the Music Department (Dr. Maugans), that Chris Kock is retiring.
That is correct, we had a reception for him at homecoming. The post I quoted made it seem like he was already gone and I wanted to let others know that he was still doing the Bach Institute performance on 12/21.
Okay, so the pool of Lutheran high school students being drawn to a Lutheran university is in decline. As vu72 said, it is what it is.
In light of that reality, consider a slight shift: Might the VU marketing "hook" borrow from the business school's mission that includes values-based practices? That appeals to a wider swath of kids who may identify with faith traditions, as well as others who are thoughtfully drawn to explorations and applications of values, rather than engaging in more tired debates over, say, political ideology?
For an excellent example of that perspective, I offer the b-school's Journal of Values-Based Leadership, which publishes readable, thought-provoking pieces reflecting the journal's title: https://scholar.valpo.edu/jvbl/ (https://scholar.valpo.edu/jvbl/)
Something along this theme speaks to a niche that VU might nurture and develop to attract some really good and smart young people. It also promotes a more practical diversity of ideas and perspectives, without getting as bogged down in the divisive social/political discussions of the day.
All due respect to those of you that are Lutheran and religious. However, I didn't know very many Lutherans during my time at Valpo, which was 20 years ago now. I will also be honest that growing up in Texas, I had never run into any Lutherans. I knew of Martin Luther, but never ran into anything known as Lutheranism, until I heard of and arrived at Valpo (I grew up 'occasionally' Presbyterian). You don't want to tie yourself to such a small population (9-10 million in the US?), especially with the youngest generation now leading to around 50% of folks (and climbing) that are completely non-religious. It's not a sustainable business model/population, given the key indicators involved. Even Houston Baptist University is known as Houston Christian University as of this athletic year.
Interesting note on the post above mine, is that my sister graduated from Middlebury College in Vermont, and is fluent in Spanish, with bits of French.
ValpoDiaspora - I appreciate your thoughtfulness and the depth of knowledge that you bring. I believe that you are an academic, which I am as well. However, my career and engagement has been in the "other side" of your arguments. I have a degree in engineering from Valpo and am a professor at a different private university. I do feel that there is substantial value in humanities, but I feel that many of your comments, while intelligent and insightful, miss the perspective of the professional schools.
I don't specifically know how the financials work at Valpo (though I have an idea), but I do know how they work at my university and some other private universities. The bottom line is that the professional colleges within a university are often subsidizing humanities and other aspects of the College of Arts and Sciences. For instance, if a professional college at my university starts a new program to attract new students and raise new revenues, the university "taxes" the professional college 30-40% of the revenue from the program so that money can be redirected to fund programs within the university that do not have sufficient funding. Further, when our college created a revenue generating program that shows viability (after implementation has begun) or brought in a large number of new students (my college's new student enrollment was up 40% for Fall 2022 and represented two-thirds of the university's year-over-year new student enrollment increase), we were told that we cannot hire any additional tenure-track or clinical faculty to cover the additional load. For the increased new student enrollment, we had a full court press to attract students - which included nearly every potential student meeting with a faculty member one or more times (and we are quite a bit bigger than Valpo). The justification for not allowing us to hire more faculty - it is not fair to the other colleges who did not have the same enrollment increase and had previous reductions. Beyond the problems subsidizing other colleges places in our ability to serve our students, this also substantially demotivates anyone in our college who considers initiating further new programs or further efforts to increase our college's enrollment.
The professional colleges want humanities/liberal arts to succeed, and are likely OK with some subsidies - but not huge subsidies and not forever (this was also going on before COVID). If you want to succeed you need to sell your value - not to yourselves, but to the decision-makers: incoming students and their parents. I see fewer programs existing or proposed within humanities/liberal arts and very few that generate additional revenue and margin. The justification for these programs is that they create societal value and enhance the university's identity, so other parts of the university should happily give us more funding.
ValpoDiaspora: I also respect your opinion and thoughtfulness. However, the institutions you mentioned have very different financial models, especially the endowments:
Berea College: $1.6B
Wash U. St. Louis: $13.7B
Georgetown: $3.21B
Valpo: $254.2M
Hope: $229.2M
Middlebury: $1.5B
These numbers are from slightly different years, yet it gives a sense of the scale of resources available. Only Hope has a similar endowment - the others are many multiples greater. The trick for Valpo was that for decades, students could get an education at VU that was equal to or better than any of the institutions on this list. It remains to be seen if that will continue in the future.
The subsidies issue raised by vu84v2 has been very much the case at my university. The unit I teach in, the law school, has continually been used as an ATM for the rest of the university for as long as I've been there (28 years) and then some.
If the "tax" on our tuition revenue were, say, 10-20%, then I would be more understanding and supportive. But at times it has been more like 30-40%, to the point where even our accreditor has taken note and raised concerns. Furthermore, because we, too, are heavily tuition dependent, it means that the law students are paying that tax via heavier loan debt -- at a law school whose employment "sweet spot" tends to be smaller to medium sized law firms and government agencies that don't pay as well as BigLaw, where maybe 15% of our graduates go.
(By the way, the subsidies issue may provide part of the reason why the VU board of trustees pulled the plug on the law school, as terribly painful that was to the institution and the school's long and respected history. VU Law may have reached the point where other academic units would have to be taxed to keep it open and provide generous scholarships for attract students who would likely pass the bar exam. This very form of subsidization is what is keeping a good number of other private law schools alive, at least for now.)
Quote from: valpotx on December 03, 2022, 12:39:45 PMInteresting note on the post above mine, is that my sister graduated from Middlebury College in Vermont, and is fluent in Spanish, with bits of French.
My Grandfatherwas a Professor of Mathematics at Middlebury College from 1926 to 1967. He served as Dean of the Faculty from 1953 to 1967; my dad graduated in 1952 as a panther with a physics degree... Google the Campus and you'll see the name on the buildings... and the campus radio station is dedicated to dad.
ValpoDaispora - First, the professional colleges need liberal arts and the value of the education that they offer would be seriously diminished without liberal arts. The underlying problem is an imbalance between how professional schools and liberal arts perceive their responsibility to be financially sustainable. Again, my opinions are derived from what I see at my university - but I think that they translate to many other private universities. Let's start with fundraising. In my college, the Dean takes lead responsibility for fundraising for the college and spends over 50% of his time raising money (operations and involvement in many university issues and programs are delegated to Associate Deans and senior faculty). His view could be characterized as "I am the person most responsible for raising money for the college, but welcome and value involvement from University Advancement". In Arts and Sciences, the Dean spends far less time raising money and more time directly involved in university issues and operations. That Dean's view could be characterized as "University Advancement is responsible for raising money and I am glad to assist them in any way possible". See the difference. The result is that our college's two most recent Deans have raised substantial funds, including all funds necessary to build a new building for the college which opens in a few weeks - while some in Arts and Sciences demand 50% or more of the classes in the new building must not be associated with our college because the university needs to be equitable.
Relatedly (as I mentioned before), Arts and Sciences relies on University Enrollment to get new students - offering to help when asked. Our college, as well as other professional colleges, take proactive steps to meet with almost every prospective student and his/her family. From our perspective, Arts and Sciences views new student enrollment as an outcome from another organization, while the professional colleges view new student enrollment as a measure of their colleges' performance.
From my comments above, you could say that the liberal arts faculty and administration may respond that they are already working 60 hours per week with teaching responsibilities, working with students, research, other service, etc. In most cases, this is probably true - but it is no different for faculty and administration in the professional colleges.
The bottom line is that there is great value from liberal arts, sciences, etc. - but the value is not consistent with the degree of subsidies required from the professional colleges. We want you to succeed, but you need to become more financially sustainable...and that takes time and it takes skills that you may not have. But this is no different than any business that faces new trends and changes in the environment outside of its boundaries. No organization has an inalienable right to exist.
Quote from: valpotx on December 03, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
All due respect to those of you that are Lutheran and religious. However, I didn't know very many Lutherans during my time at Valpo, which was 20 years ago now. I will also be honest that growing up in Texas, I had never run into any Lutherans. I knew of Martin Luther, but never ran into anything known as Lutheranism, until I heard of and arrived at Valpo (I grew up 'occasionally' Presbyterian). You don't want to tie yourself to such a small population (9-10 million in the US?), especially with the youngest generation now leading to around 50% of folks (and climbing) that are completely non-religious. It's not a sustainable business model/population, given the key indicators involved. Even Houston Baptist University is known as Houston Christian University as of this athletic year.
Interesting note on the post above mine, is that my sister graduated from Middlebury College in Vermont, and is fluent in Spanish, with bits of French.
Well, you probably never set foot in the chapel either! As for the Lutheran population in and around Texas, tx really needs to get out more. There is a sizable German population in Texas and as a result several Lutheran churches.
Quote from: vu72 on December 05, 2022, 01:35:51 PM
Quote from: valpotx on December 03, 2022, 12:39:45 PM
All due respect to those of you that are Lutheran and religious. However, I didn't know very many Lutherans during my time at Valpo, which was 20 years ago now. I will also be honest that growing up in Texas, I had never run into any Lutherans. I knew of Martin Luther, but never ran into anything known as Lutheranism, until I heard of and arrived at Valpo (I grew up 'occasionally' Presbyterian). You don't want to tie yourself to such a small population (9-10 million in the US?), especially with the youngest generation now leading to around 50% of folks (and climbing) that are completely non-religious. It's not a sustainable business model/population, given the key indicators involved. Even Houston Baptist University is known as Houston Christian University as of this athletic year.
Interesting note on the post above mine, is that my sister graduated from Middlebury College in Vermont, and is fluent in Spanish, with bits of French.
Well, you probably never set foot in the chapel either! As for the Lutheran population in and around Texas ok really need to get out more. There is a sizable German population in Texas and as a result several Lutheran churches.
I did set foot in the chapel, and was extremely bored ;). I get out plenty, but not enough to see 1% of the state's population: https://www.texasalmanac.com/articles/religious-affiliation-in-texas
"Several Lutheran churches" in a state that is the size of Texas, is not saying a lot. Again, I am not saying that there aren't sizeable populations of Lutherans in the Midwest, but if around 1% of the people in Texas identify as Lutheran, my claim stands up that it is likely that I didn't run into any Lutherans down here.
As always, an interesting discussion from this crew, however, not too focused on Brian O'Rourke. He is leaving on good terms, given the circumstances. He is credited with some departmental changes which should last into the future and seems to have earned some respect. Apparently, he didn't feel like his financial support was on par with what was needed. At the same time, he didn't want to leave Valpo in the lurch and is doing all he can to have a seamless transition. He may go into consulting which might be his way of acknowledging the substantial challenges that all higher education faces now and will continue to face for years to come.
78crusader-your comments on the "let's get VU" campaign by the NWI Times local newspaper leaves out several nuances. First of all, the recently retired President, CEO and Chairman of Lee Enterprises, which owns The Times and is the fourth largest newspaper company in the country, is a Valpo grad. Mary Junck credits her interest in Journalism to her time at Valpo when she became the editor of The Beacon. She has always spoken highly of her alma mater. The most recent series of publishers of The Times, however, have been tied to the local political kingpins. We are only a year or so removed from VU and the City of Valparaiso suing each other so you can read a lot into many things.
Good to hear that. I know we speculate a lot on this board on the university. Thanks for the apparent solid fact about Brian. He sounds like a very capable person.
This is a bit off topic but segues with what Tundra mention: the Mayor of Valpo, who I have heard was behind a bit of the animosity between campus and city is not running for a second term with the former Mayor planning a mayoral bit again.
If Valpo wants to get a handle on Enrollment, they need to call up the former Retention person that made great strides on campus a few years ago in Dr Andrea Welch. She got campus buy in from faculty and staff and is the big name in the Higher Education ranks. She was there before Brian got here and would have given Valpo a seamless transition. Unfortunately they'll probably drop the ball and go elsewhere. The huge problem with Valpo admissions is the Director Bart. The man should have been let go years ago and is a huge reason in the declining numbers. I can go on, but it will fall on deaf ears, as President Padilla has his own agenda .
Update: The new VP of Enrollment and Marketing will be Jill Sifuentes Schur, a 2004 VU business grad who has been working at Loyola Chicago since 2011.
Welll that makes a lot of sense. I looked at profile and she checks a ton of VU boxes for that role. Good to hear.
Maybe now we can get that acceptance rate down from directional state u area.
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Quote from: covufan on January 07, 2023, 05:00:51 PM
Maybe now we can get that acceptance rate down from directional state u area.
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Rubber stamping every application, yet undergraduate enrollment nearly 1000 students fewer than 10 years ago. Sounds like the law school redux.
Quote from: wh on January 07, 2023, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: covufan on January 07, 2023, 05:00:51 PM
Maybe now we can get that acceptance rate down from directional state u area.
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Rubber stamping every application, yet undergraduate enrollment nearly 1000 students fewer than 10 years ago. Sounds like the law school redux.
Don't need office of admission when 93 out of a 100 get accepted. We need serious help
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Quote from: covufan on January 07, 2023, 05:27:54 PM
Quote from: wh on January 07, 2023, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: covufan on January 07, 2023, 05:00:51 PM
Maybe now we can get that acceptance rate down from directional state u area.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rubber stamping every application, yet undergraduate enrollment nearly 1000 students fewer than 10 years ago. Sounds like the law school redux.
Don't need office of admission when 93 out of a 100 get accepted. We need serious help
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Even with that sky-high acceptance rate, US News categorizes VU as a "selective" college, presumably based on the test scores and GPAs of admitted or enrolled students.
That said, there's work to be done. An acceptance rate that high, with decent entering classes, doesn't suggest that the school is in a reputational free fall. But the admissions operation definitely needs to be stirring up a richer pool of applicants.
This is not a law school redux. That sad development was a terrible confluence of factors combined with self-inflicted wounds, a sort of perfect storm of awful that likely could've been avoided only by "taxing" the already strapped units of the university.
Quote from: David81 on January 07, 2023, 08:57:13 PM
Quote from: covufan on January 07, 2023, 05:27:54 PM
Quote from: wh on January 07, 2023, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: covufan on January 07, 2023, 05:00:51 PM
Maybe now we can get that acceptance rate down from directional state u area.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rubber stamping every application, yet undergraduate enrollment nearly 1000 students fewer than 10 years ago. Sounds like the law school redux.
Don't need office of admission when 93 out of a 100 get accepted. We need serious help
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Even with that sky-high acceptance rate, US News categorizes VU as a "selective" college, presumably based on the test scores and GPAs of admitted or enrolled students.
That said, there's work to be done. An acceptance rate that high, with decent entering classes, doesn't suggest that the school is in a reputational free fall. But the admissions operation definitely needs to be stirring up a richer pool of applicants.
This is not a law school redux. That sad development was a terrible confluence of factors combined with self-inflicted wounds, a sort of perfect storm of awful that likely could've been avoided only by "taxing" the already strapped units of the university.
I've always wondered about acceptance rates and how they differ for different schools. A state school gets applications from every type of student and many are accepted because of residency requirements. At Valpo, the acceptance rate may be high but isn't that because of the type of student applying? A "C" student (obviously I'm guessing here) probably wouldn't bother applying assuming that he or she couldn't get in or out for that matter. Does that make sense?
Quote from: vu72 on January 08, 2023, 08:30:12 AM
Quote from: David81 on January 07, 2023, 08:57:13 PM
Quote from: covufan on January 07, 2023, 05:27:54 PM
Quote from: wh on January 07, 2023, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: covufan on January 07, 2023, 05:00:51 PM
Maybe now we can get that acceptance rate down from directional state u area.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rubber stamping every application, yet undergraduate enrollment nearly 1000 students fewer than 10 years ago. Sounds like the law school redux.
Don't need office of admission when 93 out of a 100 get accepted. We need serious help
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Even with that sky-high acceptance rate, US News categorizes VU as a "selective" college, presumably based on the test scores and GPAs of admitted or enrolled students.
That said, there's work to be done. An acceptance rate that high, with decent entering classes, doesn't suggest that the school is in a reputational free fall. But the admissions operation definitely needs to be stirring up a richer pool of applicants.
This is not a law school redux. That sad development was a terrible confluence of factors combined with self-inflicted wounds, a sort of perfect storm of awful that likely could've been avoided only by "taxing" the already strapped units of the university.
I've always wondered about acceptance rates and how they differ for different schools. A state school gets applications from every type of student and many are accepted because of residency requirements. At Valpo, the acceptance rate may be high but isn't that because of the type of student applying? A "C" student (obviously I'm guessing here) probably wouldn't bother applying assuming that he or she couldn't get in or out for that matter. Does that make sense?
Yes, there's sometimes a bit of self-removal from a school's applicant pool due to perceptions that it's not worth applying because one's numbers aren't competitive.
VU can still attract a critical mass of applicants with very solid academic credentials. But the 93% acceptance rate tells me that the recruiting efforts aren't sufficient. Something about the content and extent of the marketing isn't getting through to many students for whom Valpo is a desirable choice. (For all of our genuine laments here about program closures, layoffs, and tough choices about limited resources, VU continues to offer a quality education. Furthermore, these types of cuts are occurring in waves at many peer institutions.)
I hate to put it so crassly, but this high acceptance rate is much more likely a failure at drumming up applications and selling the school than a sign that the sky is falling. That said, the big demographic decline in traditional college-age students is coming, so VU had better gets its admissions/recruiting act together promptly.
I can only chime in from a narrow, personal experience perspective. I strongly support the notion that growing and optimizing enrollment requires "crafting the applicant pool." What do I mean by that?
First, I think we all can agree on some basic stuff. Valpo is a respected institution of higher learning in the midwest. In addition to a strong liberal arts foundation, its specialty schools like nursing, engineering, the sciences etc. have great reps. Its applicants come basically from middle class families. It is considered selective by outside organizations. Yet the admission rate hovers in the high 80s to the low 90s. And despite this, total enrollment seems to be trending downward.
I was fortunate enough to have two kids who graduated from selective New England liberal arts colleges, Colby College in Maine and Middlebury College in Vermont. In some respects these colleges have similarities to Valpo like being in non-urban settings, beautiful campuses, strong academics, focus on teaching. They also are different in some ways that are critical to enrollment. [Please note that the following numbers come from a variety of sources and may not always be 100% accurate. They are meant to only portray general characteristics]
VALPO
Total Enrollment: 2944
Applicants: 5,491
Acceptances: 4,714 (93%)
Enrolled (yield): 647 (14%)
MIDDLEBURY
Total Enrollment: 2858
Applicants: 11,908
Acceptances: 1870 (13%)
Enrolled (yield): 712 (38%)
COLBY
Total Enrollment: 2262
Applicants: 15,800
Acceptances: 1,270 (8.9%)
Enrolled (yield): 565 (44%)
Notice the large applicant pools that drive the selection process at the NE schools. And keep in mind 1) Valpo can, within a 3 hour drive radius, draw from a multi-million population base in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin that is greater than that of New England and 2) that studies of schools like Colby and Midd conclude that the family origin of the applicant pool is overwhelming middle class just like Valpo.
Both of these schools have a prestigious rep in New England, yet, it does not appear that many kids "self remove" themselves from the application process because they think they can't get in. This is, I believe, because these, along with other similar selective schools, put a lot into crafting an image of their schools that promotes "going for it" to potential applicants. They recruit aggressively. Their alumni networks are incredible, proactive, and are fiercely proud of alma mater. Their admission departments know their target demographic and focus. And they are not afraid to spend significant funds to communicate with HS juniors and seniors.
However, the mental messages I seem to be getting here are that maybe the admissions department is operating on more of a shoestring budget. It certainly hasn't projected a stable organizational image of late. If there is any place that the university needs to invest heavily, it is admissions and recruitment. Here is definitely where you need to spend money to make money (i.e, increasing the yield and growing enrollment).
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 08, 2023, 12:41:42 PM
I can only chime in from a narrow, personal experience perspective. I strongly support the notion that growing and optimizing enrollment requires "crafting the applicant pool." What do I mean by that?
First, I think we all can agree on some basic stuff. Valpo is a respected institution of higher learning in the midwest. In addition to a strong liberal arts foundation, its specialty schools like nursing, engineering, the sciences etc. have great reps. Its applicants come basically from middle class families. It is considered selective by outside organizations. Yet the admission rate hovers in the high 80s to the low 90s. And despite this, total enrollment seems to be trending downward.
I was fortunate enough to have two kids who graduated from selective New England liberal arts colleges, Colby College in Maine and Middlebury College in Vermont. In some respects these colleges have similarities to Valpo like being in non-urban settings, beautiful campuses, strong academics, focus on teaching. They also are different in some ways that are critical to enrollment. [Please note that the following numbers come from a variety of sources and may not always be 100% accurate. They are meant to only portray general characteristics]
VALPO
Total Enrollment: 2944
Applicants: 5,491
Acceptances: 4,714 (93%)
Enrolled (yield): 647 (14%)
MIDDLEBURY
Total Enrollment: 2858
Applicants: 11,908
Acceptances: 1870 (13%)
Enrolled (yield): 712 (38%)
COLBY
Total Enrollment: 2262
Applicants: 15,800
Acceptances: 1,270 (8.9%)
Enrolled (yield): 565 (44%)
Notice the large applicant pools that drive the selection process at the NE schools. And keep in mind 1) Valpo can, within a 3 hour drive radius, draw from a multi-million population base in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin that is greater than that of New England and 2) that studies of schools like Colby and Midd conclude that the family origin of the applicant pool is overwhelming middle class just like Valpo.
Both of these schools have a prestigious rep in New England, yet, it does not appear that many kids "self remove" themselves from the application process because they think they can't get in. This is, I believe, because these, along with other similar selective schools, put a lot into crafting an image of their schools that promotes "going for it" to potential applicants. They recruit aggressively. Their alumni networks are incredible, proactive, and are fiercely proud of alma mater. Their admission departments know their target demographic and focus. And they are not afraid to spend significant funds to communicate with HS juniors and seniors.
However, the mental messages I seem to be getting here are that maybe the admissions department is operating on more of a shoestring budget. It certainly hasn't projected a stable organizational image of late. If there is any place that the university needs to invest heavily, it is admissions and recruitment. Here is definitely where you need to spend money to make money (i.e, increased enrollment).
Colby and Middlebury are very different animals. They are wealthy, elite private colleges. I will submit that every year, there are thousands of young folks who look at their numbers and self-remove. Rather, what their application numbers reflect is the deluge of applications from kids with scary strong credentials who are all playing the elite college admissions lottery game, hoping to get in at least one, but really really really hoping to have choices and maybe an acceptance from a "dream school." The kids who are applying to Colby and Middlebury are also applying to Bowdoin, Amherst, Smith, Williams, etc., probably some of the Ivies, and if geographically flexible places like Oberlin and Grinnell. Soooo much of this game is rankings driven to a point of obsession.
I'm repeating myself from other comments, but Valpo's role is different. Unlike the elite places that sometimes are mere finishing schools for a certain stratum of applicant, what VU can offer are opportunities for kids with strong, if not elite, qualifications to attend a school that can help them truly grow. Somehow the admissions & recruiting effort has to tap more deeply into that vein.
Being in New England, David, I was waiting for you to call me on my comparison. ;D
To me it is a question of degree. I used the exaggerated comparison to drive home a more basic point. Yes, there are differences that come into play when you directly compare the Colbys and Midds to Valpo (the Harvard of the midwest, right :-[ ) one for one. My point is, for the school that Valpo proports to be, its numbers seem to be way out of kilter in my opinion. Why can't Valpo proportionally tailor and apply the same recruitment strategies and the admission investment plans as my straw colleges to increase the applicant pool size, improve selectivity, and increase the yield population?
So lets compare closer to home — the school down south.
BUTLER
Enrollment: 4776
Applicants (2019): 14,896 (not far off from my straws and nearly 3x Valpo's)
Accepted: 11,916 (80%)
Enrolled (yield): 1125 (8.6%)
We don't need 14,000 applicants, but 8-10,000 would be nice. Certainly having an acceptance rate of 80% would be more desirable, and a bit more selective, than 93%. I'll take Valpo's current yield of 14% over Butler's 8.6%, but having 6,400-8000 acceptances (even giving us a 10% yield) would mean 640-800 enrollees, and they'd theoretically be more qualified enrollees.
This geographically and culturally closer comparison, further confirms to me that we must be doing something wrong or at least are inadequately doing what we should be doing. But then, I think we kinda agree on that, right?
Interesting, I didn't know that my sister's alma mater was that selective (Middlebury College). She also played Volleyball there, and was a Cheerleader.
Quote from: valpotx on January 08, 2023, 02:31:08 PM
Interesting, I didn't know that my sister's alma mater was that selective (Middlebury College). She also played Volleyball there, and was a Cheerleader.
My dad (Midd'52) built the campus radio station there, my grandfather was Dean of faculty in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Fond panther memories
Midd is #11 among National Liberal Arts colleges in the latest US News college ratings. Colby is 26th.
Interesting that the three major US military academies are in that mix as well. Navy #6, Army #9 and AF #18.
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 08, 2023, 02:27:39 PM
Being in New England, David, I was waiting for you to call me on my comparison. ;D
To me it is a question of degree. I used the exaggerated comparison to drive home a more basic point. Yes, there are differences that come into play when you directly compare the Colbys and Midds to Valpo (the Harvard of the midwest, right :-[ ) one for one. My point is, for the school that Valpo proports to be, its numbers seem to be way out of kilter in my opinion. Why can't Valpo proportionally tailor and apply the same recruitment strategies and the admission investment plans as my straw colleges to increase the applicant pool size, improve selectivity, and increase the yield population?
So lets compare closer to home — the school down south.
BUTLER
Enrollment: 4776
Applicants (2019): 14,896 (not far off from my straws and nearly 3x Valpo's)
Accepted: 11,916 (80%)
Enrolled (yield): 1125 (8.6%)
We don't need 14,000 applicants, but 8-10,000 would be nice. Certainly having an acceptance rate of 80% would be more desirable, and a bit more selective, than 93%. I'll take Valpo's current yield of 14% over Butler's 8.6%, but having 6,400-8000 acceptances (even giving us a 10% yield) would mean 640-800 enrollees, and they'd theoretically be more qualified enrollees.
This geographically and culturally closer comparison, further confirms to me that we must be doing something wrong or at least are inadequately doing what we should be doing. But then, I think we kinda agree on that, right?
VULB#62, LOL, you are prodding me into an online flame war! ;D :lol:
But seriously, I agree 100% on your comparison to Butler...and let's toss in Drake (69%), Bradley(76%), Dayton (81%), etc., as well as the overall point that VU's admissions/recruitment operation has been underperforming.
Generating additional 1,000-1,500 applicants, for starters, should be eminently doable. Increasing the yield can be more challenging, because here is where all the side-by-side comparisons come in, especially financial aid.
I think that the current frustration and even alarm over the MBB program, however understandable, added to these enrollment challenges, has caused some -- again understandably -- to feel like the wheels are coming off. While VU is at an important point in its history -- things will likely get better or get worse, but probably not remain at status quo -- I believe that reversing the overall admissions and recruitment part is probably easier than turning around the basketball program.
David, the first like to your post is mine 🤪
And the investment is more efficient. The results will easily be evident in year one.
Basketball coach salary = $300+K per year -> competitive in maybe a couple of years. Filled ARC if winning - after year 2 or 3. Enrollment increase- probably unaffected.
Put an additional $300 K annually into admissions -> Whoa!
BUT, I still want a new MBB coach !
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 08, 2023, 07:38:59 PM
David, the firstl like to your post is mine 🤪
We've found ourselves in agreement more often than not on this board, and even our differences of opinion have been in good spirit and relatively minor! :)
Overall, I find that folks here make the effort to contribute to genuine discussion, as opposed to Twitter-like attempts to out-snark each other. I don't visit this site holding my breath in anticipation of what waves of insults folks might be tossing at each other simply because they may not agree on everything.
See my modified post below.
If Valpo was in a market like Metro Indy I believe VU's numbers would be much more comparable to Butler's.
Quote from: ValpoDiaspora on January 09, 2023, 08:52:14 AM
...Anyways, part of the uphill battle for Valpo with the rates/prestige pressures in admissions is that high school students today are all sharing their results via messenger or social media. If you go on Reddit Applying to College (A2C) or ChanceMe or College Results or any of those places, they literally refer to batches of schools by T10, T20, T50, T100 (top ten, top twenty, etc) in their discussions about apps and results. They've completely internalized the ranking system : "I'm a T20 applicant." "I'm trying for T25, but fml my SAT is T50" etc.
Once again, it's the pernicious influence of the US News rankings.
Law school applications and enrollment decisions have been similarly afflicted. And sadly, you now have a generation of young faculty who have rankings on the brain. It's really sad to see grown adults, in positions of authority, buying into that worldview.
Quote from: David81 on January 09, 2023, 03:27:39 PM
Once again, it's the pernicious influence of the US News rankings.
We did not mind the US News rankings when Valpo was listed as #1 in the Midwest. Although I don't disagree with all of the comments, this discussion has too much focus on the rankings. If a university or program is doing the right things, the rankings have a way of working themselves out. All of the rankings are imperfect yet they are and should be one data point that allows comparisons between different programs.
In VU's case, the problems are much deeper than rankings - there are many things that are hitting on a secular low all at once. Some of these are not the fault of VU, though some are. For example, the demographic cliff of high school graduates in the Midwest in particular is well known, as is the decline or shift in mission of Lutheran high schools. Then, there was the COVID-19 disruption to all of higher education, none of which were VU's fault.
However, President Heckler proposed growing VU to 6,000 students in the face of these foreseeable demographic changes. Similarly, President Heckler and the VU administration completely and totally dropped the ball with the failure of VU's Law School. The dropping of the mascot was ham-fisted - it became a metaphor of woke politics that alienated many traditional supporters; even if it was the right decision, the announcement was awful as it did not acknowledge the best parts of the old mascot or those who cheered for the teams over decades. Then, there was an amateur launch of a new logo, followed by *two* mascots? Then, there are perhaps unavoidable staff and faculty cuts. Even now, he flagship basketball program suffers through seven years of mediocrity after decades of relatively high-level success. None of these issue are the fault of the rankings.
Quote from: valpo95 on January 10, 2023, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: David81 on January 09, 2023, 03:27:39 PM
Once again, it's the pernicious influence of the US News rankings.
We did not mind the US News rankings when Valpo was listed as #1 in the Midwest. Although I don't disagree with all of the comments, this discussion has too much focus on the rankings. If a university or program is doing the right things, the rankings have a way of working themselves out. All of the rankings are imperfect yet they are and should be one data point that allows comparisons between different programs.
In VU's case, the problems are much deeper than rankings - there are many things that are hitting on a secular low all at once. Some of these are not the fault of VU, though some are. For example, the demographic cliff of high school graduates in the Midwest in particular is well known, as is the decline or shift in mission of Lutheran high schools. Then, there was the COVID-19 disruption to all of higher education, none of which were VU's fault.
However, President Heckler proposed growing VU to 6,000 students in the face of these foreseeable demographic changes. Similarly, President Heckler and the VU administration completely and totally dropped the ball with the failure of VU's Law School. The dropping of the mascot was ham-fisted - it became a metaphor of woke politics that alienated many traditional supporters; even if it was the right decision, the announcement was awful as it did not acknowledge the best parts of the old mascot or those who cheered for the teams over decades. Then, there was an amateur launch of a new logo, followed by *two* mascots? Then, there are perhaps unavoidable staff and faculty cuts. Even now, he flagship basketball program suffers through seven years of mediocrity after decades of relatively high-level success. None of these issue are the fault of the rankings.
Oh, if only "doing the right things" = "rankings have a way of working themselves out." If you knew how much time, effort, and money many institutions devote to assessing major and minor decisions with an eye on the rankings, and basing decisions at least in part on that calculus, then you might feel differently. This includes expending resources to operations and programs that are more likely to impact the rankings, while giving short shrift to aspects of a university that are less likely to impact the rankings.
I do not defend these practices. I wish it was just like you said. But schools that don't look hard at how their decisions may impact their rankings do so at their peril.
I agree that the initial iterations of the US News rankings were good for VU, which during the 70s and early 80s, before US News appeared on the scene, suffered through a real identity crisis. VU's high placement with other quality, regional Midwestern universities provided VU a good sense of how it was perceived in the broader higher ed community.
Although I understand how the mascot issue caused a lot of discord among many on this board and elsewhere, when it comes to attracting applications from today's pool of potential students, the impacts on the applicant pool and students' perceptions of the MBB program are likely to have been minimal. In fact, given that Gen Z tends to be more like 60s classic Boomers than 70s and 80s late Boomers and early Gen Xers in its social outlook, I think many would greet the change as either mildly positive or a big whatever. Say what you want about the mascot change, but if you think this MBB team would be competing for post-season if they were still the Crusaders, then we have a very different understanding of the challenges within that program.
I'll respond to your point about the Law School below.
Quote from: valpo95 on January 10, 2023, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: David81 on January 09, 2023, 03:27:39 PM
Once again, it's the pernicious influence of the US News rankings.
Similarly, President Heckler and the VU administration completely and totally dropped the ball with the failure of VU's Law School.
I will respectfully disagree with you on the Law School, the closing of which I regard as being the saddest major development in VU's modern history. I'm repeating what I've written elsewhere on this site, but here's my read on the VU Law story, as a long-time legal academic: The truth is that VU Law had always punched above its weight with very modest resources. Way back in the late 70s, the VU Board came close to shuttering the Law School when an ABA reaccreditation report came back with highly negative findings about the finances and physical plant. The University opted to dig deep and raise money for the new Wesemann Hall, and during the 90s until the Great Recession, the Law School enjoyed a very successful run, thanks in part to an abundant application pool and a strong legal job market.
But VU Law was never without its vulnerabilities. And it all came crashing down in the aftermath of the Great Recession. Law school application levels plummeted, the bottom fell out of the legal job market, and, smaller, lower-ranked, non-urban law schools like VU Law paid an especially heavy price. As is the case with most university-affiliated law schools, the VU Law administration and faculty were given much leeway in determining how to respond to this crisis, and they responded by considerably lowering the admissions standards, to the point where many graduates couldn't pass the bar exam and couldn't obtain gainful employment. This 2016 major
New York Times feature on the challenges facing VU Law, as an example of how many regional law schools are struggling, told the story in stark terms: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/business/dealbook/an-expensive-law-degree-and-no-place-to-use-it.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/business/dealbook/an-expensive-law-degree-and-no-place-to-use-it.html).
It's likely that the only way to save VU Law would've been to raid the endowment and "tax" other University units to pay for super lucrative scholarships to attract stronger applicants from a sharply diminished pool and to cover the higher salaries paid to law faculty. (Though it's safe to assume that VU Law faculty were earning considerably less than peers at many other institutions, especially those in major urban areas.)
Among the 200 or so ABA-accredited law schools in the U.S., it's fair to say that at least 20 percent of them are more-or-less hanging on, some by a mere thread. VU Law may have been able to survive with the extraordinary measures I suggested above, but perhaps only to be in "hanging on" group for the foreseeable future.
Here, too, rankings mattered greatly. VU Law always struggled in them. As said rankings increasingly began to shape enrollment decisions for the lion's share of law school applicants, it greatly affected the school's application levels and eventual yield.
The Times coverage!
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/valpo-university-names-alum-new-vp-of-enrollment/article_078aae1a-6e48-5be7-b41a-401ac83370c9.html
81, apparently I touched a nerve. I do appreciate your passion.
To be clear, I'm not saying to entirely ignore the rankings. I do not discount the myriad challenges facing the VU law school over time, and the issues were facing many other law schools.
Yet even in the case of the law school, the rankings did provide an important and diagnostic signal. As far as I know, one of the big issues facing VU's law school was the noticeable decline in the bar passage rate as well as placement statistics. When the law school became desperate for enrollment, they took less qualified students who subsequently had much more difficulty passing the bar and getting placed into top jobs. This directly impacted the rankings, and also led to a decline in the external assessments of the quality of the law school. Thus, the rankings were not the primary cause the decline of the law school, but they did (at least somewhat accurately) reflect the decisions of the leadership.
Quote from: valpo95 on January 11, 2023, 08:28:54 AM
81, apparently I touched a nerve. I do appreciate your passion.
To be clear, I'm not saying to entirely ignore the rankings. I do not discount the myriad challenges facing the VU law school over time, and the issues were facing many other law schools.
Yet even in the case of the law school, the rankings did provide an important and diagnostic signal. As far as I know, one of the big issues facing VU's law school was the noticeable decline in the bar passage rate as well as placement statistics. When the law school became desperate for enrollment, they took less qualified students who subsequently had much more difficulty passing the bar and getting placed into top jobs. This directly impacted the rankings, and also led to a decline in the external assessments of the quality of the law school. Thus, the rankings were not the primary cause the decline of the law school, but they did (at least somewhat accurately) reflect the decisions of the leadership.
Valpo95, thank you for your comment. I'm sorry for coming on so hard about these rankings.
I applied to colleges and to law schools before the US News rankings entered the arena. Since then, I've seen how they've taken over perceptions of quality, accomplishment, and prestige in ways that have been very damaging to higher education and led applicants to make decisions that might well have landed them at schools that weren't a great match. And as an academic, I've seen how rankings shape students' perceptions of their self-worth -- in ways that cause some students to overrate themselves, while others underrate themselves.
So, yeah, I can be a bit passionate about this topic, as you so diplomatically observed. 🤪😳
I think Valpo, even with all of the challenges of recent years, continues to offer not only a quality classroom education, but also intangibles that aren't necessarily quantified in these rankings schemes. Somehow, someway, the admissions and recruiting process needs to find a better way to communicate those qualities and persuade applicants for whom this would be very good place to get an education and earn a degree to sign up.