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As a fan of an opposing team, I just want to say, I was absolutely blown away by the press conference. From Roger Powell's inspirational opening to the questions from the reporters to the answers given. It actually got me excited and hopeful for Valpo's success! You guys have the right guy for the right time. Go Beacons!

The Flames have 7 new players; 3 Freshmen started; Coach McClain implemented new defensive schemes the players were getting used to;  It was an exhibition game...a feeling out, getting some stuff on film game. The Flames will be fine. They'll be much better than last year's 5-25 team.

Still don't know how UIC and NKU are getting these recruits.

Could you please elaborate on UIC "getting these recruits"?

I just have to revisit this. First, Chuck, you have no idea how you would react if you were on the rise like we are, hoping to see our program go to the next level, while half of the other programs are in decline from when we joined the league. In fact I think a more fitting title would have been "I'm completely ashamed and humiliated" with an accompanying post talking about how frustrated you are that UIC has become the worst program in the HL and how badly you feel that your program is more to blame for the decline of the HL's standing and reputation than any other league member. Had you approached the topic that way, I would have been the first to console you, tell you to keep your chin up, and encourage you that your best days are ahead with a new coach.

It's all in the presentation...

wh, actually I do know how I would react. The Flames have gone to 3 Dances and I was there for all 3 of them. We had great battles with Milwaukee and before that, with Green Bay when Bob Hallberg was UIC's coach and Dick Bennet was coaching Green Bay. Even then, I didn't beat up the HL. Why? There was no need. I have already stated, on the Flames' board how bad and downtrodden our program has become. Why would I bring that to the Valpo board? I just asked a simple question wh, that's all and I got answers. Thanks for the encouragement.

Not a problem wh. Sure when I heard the MVC was looking to expand, I was excited about the prospect of UIC joining. It has been a top 10 mid-major for years and have sent multiple teams to the Dance. But at no time, in ANY of my posts, did I ever bad mouth the Horizon League or hinted that UIC was too good for the Horizon. That's my only point. If teams want to leave, cool, but why rip the League when LeCrone can only do what he's allowed to do by the Executive Board. My post here asking the initial question was not about whether I wanted UIC to be in the Valley or not, but the bad mouthing of the HL. That's all. So there is no hypocrisy in any of my posts.

I know I'll probably get blasted for this, but I just want to know. Why do some of you guys post about wanting to leave the Horizon League? There are complaints about how bad it has become and you should look for another league, such as the Missouri Valley or even the A-10. Why? Some of you act as if you have become too good for the League when in actuality you haven't. Sure you've gone to the Dance the past few years, but that's it. I know UIC has been in the crapper, but it's not about us. You guys have not won one NCAA tournament game nor gone to a Sweet 16 since "The Shot". So what causes you to think that you are now "too good" for the Horizon? Others say the league has deteriorated into the abyss of lesser conferences. Over the last ten years including this past disastrous season (ranking 16 in rpi), the HL's rpi was 12.1. So I don't see the great decline that some have intimated.

I realize scheduling plays a part. Local Presidents and ADs also come into play by hiring good ADs and coaches. I think UIC has finally got a coach that can get us back into relevancy. Green Bay hired a coach who's won a national championship who will keep them in contention.

If it wasn't for Northern Iowa having a great season last year, the Valley is just a one-bid league as it will be next season. So what's the difference?

It's going to be a two team race between the Mid-Con schools.

It might be, but don't count out Milwaukee and Detroit. As a matter of fact, while others keep complaining about the League, this will be another competitive season. Heck, UIC might surprise this season!

Yeah, that's the one. We're out of danger because of the two-year higher average requirement that the team met. This, however, is the last year for that as from now on APRs will be only on a 4-year average.

We all are just grateful that Coach Moore has changed the culture around Flames hoops.

From this exchange on the UIC board, it looks like they could be next:

Poster #1:

The obvious next question: where does UIC stand?

I know we lost a scholarship due to a low score in 2010-11. That would be part of the rolling 4-year average.

This year's APR is based on the 09-10 through 12-13 seasons.

Poster #2:

09-10: 905
10-11: 915
11-12: 900
12-13: ?

I'm sure if there's bad news it will be made public just before the spring signing period begins.


I'm starting to rethink my support for Valpo remaining in the HL.  If Missouri State moves to the Sun Belt, it could reopen an opportunity to move to the MVC.  That said, I recall that last year's MVC search committee was highly unimpressed with our present athletic facilities - and the lack of a commitment by the university to enhancements beyond a long term wish list.  Basically, nothing has changed since.  I doubt that they would be impressed that the university has committed to installing a new track.  Men's basketball is the straw that stirs the drink.   

Okay, now why don't you go back to our message board and post the response from uic105. We are not in danger of a post season ban because we have quality students. Jimmy Collins, at the end, almost destroyed the Flames' hoops program. When he left, he did so when it was too late for Howard  Moore to sufficiently recruit. He was stuck with some of Collins' recruit and it took a while to weed them out and bring in quality student-athletes. The '12-'13 season is more of what I would expect from the Team going forward.

I don't know about Milwaukee or even Valpo for that matter, but I do know that UIC is a quality university that is a top 70 research institution and is listed as one of the top universities in the world that is 50 years old or less. Everybody has their opinion and I get that, but let's get some good background first.

So does this make NKY more or less likely to bolt?

I think it makes NKU more likely to bolt. They wanted into the HL when they were seeking Div I status. Now with only 8 teams in the A-Sun and their chance of expansion coming from teams from even lower ranked conferences; the fact that they are moreso in the HL's footprint than the A-Sun's; and knowing that the HL is seeking another team or two or three, their coming to the Horizon is not out of the realm of possibility.

Also can we wait for Northern Kentucky to become even post season eligible before we start anointing them? The only thing of note they've done is exist and get into a scandal with their AD. Simply existing with a big stadium doesn't guarantee success.

I don't think anybody's anointing NKU as much as noting that they have done an excellent job of transitioning to the Division I level. They've spent money on athletics. They vigorously recruit their area eventhough, like most of us, they're going up against the Big Boys. Most programs when they move up, usually take more than the required 4 years to be a respectable program. NKU is doing it the right way. We talk about facilities and spending money. Why? Well, it means you have a better shot at bringing in recruits. Every recruit nowadays know they are not going to North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, et al, but a whole lot of them still like to play in nice arenas with fans cheering. NKU has this. In NKU's first season in Division I, they finished 9-9 in conference and, I think 11-15 or 16. For a first year D1 program, that's not bad.

We're not anointing them, just looking at their upside...and it's good.

I'm thinking the addition of Oakland could make us the top mid-major.  Apostle can help here as I'm too old and uninformed, but, here's my take.  Kampe said he is scheduling teams like North Carolina and UCLA.  Now, replace the Summit with the Horizon and what will his rpi look like?  Add Oakland and replace Loyola and what will the rest of us look like? Now think about the Valley.  They lose one of their top two and add Loyola??  could we pass them?  and if we do, what mid-major is better?

Last season the HL was the 12th rated conference in the nation, and that was with Loyola.  The MVC was rated 8th or 9th and that was with Creighton.  Of course they still have Wichita State, but like it is with the HL, teams 2-10 are pretty much a crap shoot comparatively speaking.  Heads up last season, the Valley got us, we give them that.  This season, however, the addition of Oakland does make the HL stronger as well as the conference having pretty good recruiting classes across the board.  The Grizz return a couple of nice players in Bader and Mondy plus a decent recruiting class.  But to get over the hump that is the Missouri Valley and the A-10, I think we need to continue on our upward trend and bring in a program like Belmont.  Belmont would absolutely put us over the hump. If the HL wanted to be more visionary, then the addition of Murray State and Northern Kentucky would definitely put us in the top 10. This also would increase our chances of having multiple teams in the Dance.

The Horizon needs to develop a sense of unity and strength as it pertains to its member institutions and cease the talk and/or appearance of wanting to leaving this conference.  It's a good league and will only get better.

Oakland opens the 2013-14 season with North Carolina, UCLA, Cal, and Gonzaga, all on the road, of course. They'll probably also play at Michigan State.

Is there any sliver of hope that they can get one of these games?  If so, which one?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Gonzaga.  I originally had UCLA in mind, but with Steve Alford there, they might be a bit more disciplined and defensive minded to lose to the Grizz.

I know this will probably change the tenor of this thread, but I had to ask.

Yeah, everybody's from the old Mid-Con except Detroit.

I just wouldn't be so quick to move on NKU without evaluating other options. There is no choice that is as good of a fit for the league at #10 as Oakland was at #9.

I beg to differ.  That choice at #10 that would be as good as Oakland at #9 would be Belmont.  There is still hope that they might come. Maybe not this year, but there is still hope. NKU is a great possibility as well.  I also think, based on the invitation of Oakland that the HL has and is doing its due diligence in evaluating options.  They don't want another Youngstown State, by reacting in haste.  Although Oakland was always a choice if we ever expanded again, the HL still had to do the work and analysis, statistical evaluations, etc.  I do believe we'll be a 12-team league and eventually surpass the A-10 and MVC.

Pretty much the worst kept "secret" in the history of conference realignment