So I have noticed that many people have been discussing possible teams that we might want in the HL in the next year or two. So I cam up with a system that would rank teams that I thought were within reason. They were ranked in 1 through 21, with 1 being the best score and 21 the worst. These are only their ranking, not their actual numbers. This took quite a while for me to do. For example since Oakland was only 25 miles from Detroit they were given a ranking of 1 because they were the closest school to another HL school, while ORU was the furthest away, so they were ranked number 21 in that respect, same goes for win%* and NCAA/NIT appearances, which are both since the 2003-04 season. For Northern Kentucky, South Dakota State, North Dakota State, South Dakota, and North Dakota, they've all played time in DII during the previous 10 years, so I did not count those seasons as a part of their totals.
So, debate since I know there is a lot to debate about. What team(s) do you want to see in the HL and which teams would you not? And what are your general thoughts to the hopeful HL expansion?
Rank Team
1 Robert Morris
2 Belmont
3 Oakland
4 Murray State
5 Niagara
6 Eastern Kentucky
7 Oral Roberts
9 Austin Peay
9 Morehead State
10 IUPUI
11 North Dakota St
12 South Dakota St
13 Northern Kentucky
14 IPFW
15 Tenn. Tech
16 Canisius
18 Tenn. Martin
18 Tenn. State
19 South Dakota
19 Western Illinois
21 North Dakota
Awesome. Only gripe is that winning percentage doesn't take into account SOS, whereas RPI would. I think there an old thread where someone calculated rolling 4 year average rpi of each team.
I like ranking via geography... But what about adding stadium size and athletic spending? And then you could mash into the formula endowment, number of athletic teams weighted by importance, existence of a track, hotness of their volleyball team, number of athletic director scandals, aesthetics of their mascot head, number of basketball players who pound their chest after baskets... and then you'd end up with probably a list that looks similar to what you got anyways.
So if I were the Horizon League commissioner...
Move south 1. Murray State 2. Belmont
If not move out east 3. Robert Morris 4. Oakland. Have a feeling we're going to be stuck at 9 for awhile.
Whatever 2 schools someone chooses, at least 1 has to have baseball or we lose our automatic bid.
Maybe an asterisk by the name denoting baseball?
Teams w/ Baseball in Bold
Rank Team
1 Robert Morris
2 Belmont
3 Oakland
4 Murray State
5 Niagara
6 Eastern Kentucky
7 Oral Roberts
9 Austin Peay
9 Morehead State
10 IUPUI
11 North Dakota St
12 South Dakota St
13 Northern Kentucky
14 IPFW
15 Tenn. Tech
16 Canisius
18 Tenn. Martin
18 Tenn. State
19 South Dakota
19 Western Illinois
21 North Dakota
I created a chart that encompasses every team that falls within our demographic. This stretches from Western New York to Tulsa OK. I ranked the teams based on three different criteria. 1.) Distance in miles from the closest HL team, 2.) Win percentage over the past 10 seasons*, 3.) NCAA/NIT tournament appearances over the past 10 seasons. What I did was ranked each team in each category from 1 through 21, with 1 being the highest score. If Oakland for example, they were only 25 miles from Detroit, so they were ranked #1 in that category, while for win% and ncaa/nit appearance they were ranked 7 & 9 respectively. So, they had an average score of 5.6, which came in third place overall.
*Northern Kentucky, South Dakota State, North Dakota, South Dakota State, & North Dakota, played in DII at one point over the past 10 seasons, thus those records were not included in the 10 year win percentage.
(http://s20.postimg.org/eklb6bzhl/horizon.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/eklb6bzhl/)
if you click it, it'll open up nicely
Very interesting and nicely done. It leads us back to where we've been (wish list wise) for some time now.
Where do you get the information that Oakland only has 2,800 students? They have around 20,000 students per below. I thought that you might be referring to the arena size at first, but then saw that you have IUPUI as 14,000, so it had to be students. This goes for a few others you have listed as well (WIU, ORU, etc). It is almost like you went back and forth between stadium size and student population?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_University)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Illinois_University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Illinois_University)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts_University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts_University)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_University_%E2%80%93_Purdue_University_Indianapolis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_University_%E2%80%93_Purdue_University_Indianapolis)
Below is LeCrone's official statement in response to Loyola departure. As usual, its passive tone doesn't inspire confidence.
INDIANAPOLIS -- A statement from Horizon League Commissioner Jon LeCrone regarding Loyola University Chicago:
"Last week, Loyola University Chicago informed the Horizon League board of its intention to withdraw from the Horizon League and accept an invitation to join the Missouri Valley Conference, effective with the 2013-14 season.
"Board members and I were in close contact with Loyola officials and the Missouri Valley Conference administration throughout the decision-making process. We thank Loyola for its many years of commitment to the progress of the Horizon League and wish Loyola and its teams, coaches and student-athletes the best as they move to the Valley.
"The Horizon League will continue to seek collaborative opportunities with its conference peers during this time of uncertainty in intercollegiate athletics. We will also continue to work proactively and aggressively on our internal and external growth plans."
Any mention of whether or not their softball team gets to compete for an NCAA bid? You would have to think that they would not be allowed to, since Butler was not given that opportunity.
Quote from: valpotx on April 19, 2013, 11:47:20 AM
Where do you get the information that Oakland only has 2,800 students? They have around 20,000 students per below. I thought that you might be referring to the arena size at first, but then saw that you have IUPUI as 14,000, so it had to be students. This goes for a few others you have listed as well (WIU, ORU, etc). It is almost like you went back and forth between stadium size and student population?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_University)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Illinois_University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Illinois_University)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts_University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Roberts_University)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_University_%E2%80%93_Purdue_University_Indianapolis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_University_%E2%80%93_Purdue_University_Indianapolis)
I used wikipedia, somehow must've missed a screwed up on a couple... not sure how that happened. Not too big of a deal, I didn't include size of school in with the calculations portion.
Quote from: valpopal on April 19, 2013, 11:49:01 AM
Below is LeCrone's official statement in response to Loyola departure. As usual, its passive tone doesn't inspire confidence.
INDIANAPOLIS -- A statement from Horizon League Commissioner Jon LeCrone regarding Loyola University Chicago:
"Last week, Loyola University Chicago informed the Horizon League board of its intention to withdraw from the Horizon League and accept an invitation to join the Missouri Valley Conference, effective with the 2013-14 season.
U
"Board members and I were in close contact with Loyola officials and the Missouri Valley Conference administration throughout the decision-making process. We thank Loyola for its many years of commitment to the progress of the Horizon League and wish Loyola and its teams, coaches and student-athletes the best as they move to the Valley.
"The Horizon League will continue to seek collaborative opportunities with its conference peers during this time of uncertainty in intercollegiate athletics. We will also continue to work proactively and aggressively on our internal and external growth plans."
Well, glad to hear he is going to act proactively and aggressively. I'll believe it when I see it. I'm guessing July comes and goes with no new members announced.
Proactive? I would settle for reactive. All we seem to get from the HL office is inactive.
This is such a great idea that I wish I had thought of it first.
A couple suggestions for additions to your spreadsheet? A column denoting public/private (though it seems obvious it isn't always, plus it is important to a lot of people on here it seems), a column for average attendance, and for RPI averages?
I'd be happy to help with assimilation of data since it's easy for anyone to suggest work for someone else :)
Unless there is an announcement by the middle of next week, the Horizon League will, beginning in 72 days, operate with eight teams next year. What is the League holding out for, or why are teams not interesting in joining us? It looks like an additional Division III or NAIA team on next year's schedule.
Here is the updated version. I fixed the school size and I added rpi (past 10 seasons)* as a variable, attendance I could not think of a way to normalize, since it some schools are larger, or are in a larger city, or play in a larger arena, or a large school that plays in a small arena, or has played in another arena throughout the year, and it was still considered a home game (IUPUI playing in the Canseco Fieldhouse). So there were just too many parameters but rpi I added as a part of the function.
*Schools that played in DII did not have rpis for that season, Northern Kentucky had zero rpi rankins over past 10 seasons, so they were given a rank of 21.
(http://s20.postimg.org/6b090fqzt/horizon.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6b090fqzt/)
CLICK!
Quote from: classof2014 on April 19, 2013, 03:49:53 PM
Here is the updated version. I fixed the school size and I added rpi (past 10 seasons)* as a variable, attendance I could not think of a way to normalize, since it some schools are larger, or are in a larger city, or play in a larger arena, or a large school that plays in a small arena, or has played in another arena throughout the year, and it was still considered a home game (IUPUI playing in the Canseco Fieldhouse). So there were just too many parameters but rpi I added as a part of the function.
*Schools that played in DII did not have rpis for that season, Northern Kentucky had zero rpi rankins over past 10 seasons, so they were given a rank of 21.
(http://s20.postimg.org/6b090fqzt/horizon.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6b090fqzt/)
CLICK!
Awesome... wondering if RPI/winning percentage reaches too far back. Robert Morris has been improving since 10 years ago, which they were terrible. They've turned into a program that hadn't broken 200 RPI from 2000-2007, but since the 2007 season they've had 5 20+ win seasons. There should be more merit in the RPI/winning percentage of the last 5 years, and wondering if you could do something like average the 10 year and 5 year numbers.
http://www.collegerpi.com/subs/cgi/tmrpihist.cgi?T184 (http://www.collegerpi.com/subs/cgi/tmrpihist.cgi?T184)
Quote from: a3uge on April 19, 2013, 04:24:43 PMAwesome... wondering if RPI/winning percentage reaches too far back. Robert Morris has been improving since 10 years ago, which they were terrible. They've turned into a program that hadn't broken 200 RPI from 2000-2007, but since the 2007 season they've had 5 20+ win seasons. There should be more merit in the RPI/winning percentage of the last 5 years, and wondering if you could do something like average the 10 year and 5 year numbers.
Probably could've but it all seemed to even itself out anyways. I wanted to include history since people will look pretty far back so I felt 10 was a good cutoff, it might give the team a chance who had 2 or 3 down years over the past 5 but the previous 5 they were really good. I might just slash the years in half to see what the results are but the top 10 will probably stay just about the same.
Quote from: Valposter on April 19, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
Proactive? I would settle for reactive. All we seem to get from the HL office is inactive.
Very well put... :)
Quote from: Valposter on April 19, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
Proactive? I would settle for reactive. All we seem to get from the HL office is inactive.
I got texted/called by three different people saying "Did you see the Valpo board? Best quote ever."
Well done.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on April 19, 2013, 11:17:21 PM
Quote from: Valposter on April 19, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
Proactive? I would settle for reactive. All we seem to get from the HL office is inactive.
I got texted/called by three different people saying "Did you see the Valpo board? Best quote ever."
Well done.
Thanks blackpantheruwm and wh.........just keeping it real and calling 'em as we see 'em.
Not to make more work, 2014, but could you also show your raw data? I understand that Belmont has the #1 RPI and postseason appearances in the chart, but I don't know what that number is, so as to compare it to schools currently in the HL as well.
Also, generally when ties are made, everyone ties at the highest possible number, not the lowest (looking at all the 21s in your NCAA/NIT line); not doing so will artificially deflate everyone with such a number and spoil comparisons. E.g.:
1) Valpo 27
t2) UIC 21
t2) Loyola 21
t4) UWGB 19
t4) UWM 19
t4) WSU 19
t7) Detroit 7
t7) Oakland 7
t7) CSU 7
not
1) Valpo 27
t2) UIC 21
t2) Loyola 21
t4) UWGB 19
t4) UWM 19
t4) WSU 19
t9) Detroit 7
t9) Oakland 7
t9) CSU 7
That said, thank you for updating it--this is quite instructive.
Could you give it some nice pretty colors too. ;)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAND
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NFevjU91c1w/TUbWoqSZeZI/AAAAAAAAAD8/H4NJrsL9iZA/s1600/shrubbery.jpg)
A SHRUBBERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: wh on April 19, 2013, 05:12:41 PM
Quote from: Valposter on April 19, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
Proactive? I would settle for reactive. All we seem to get from the HL office is inactive.
Very well put... :)
Been away for a few days. Indeed, very well put!
I have been reading for a while about the HL's need for new additions.
Oakland makes too much sense not to invite. However, do Valpo fans really think UIPUI and IPFW are better than WIU? None are elite but really? We are projected below both when we have higher attendance than both combined and a far better overall program currently. WIU would be an ideal fit because of so many reasons. Sadly I don't feel consideration will be given. Replace an IL school with an IL school. Keep travel simple with WIU. Football would be fine considering we are patched into the MVFC already (like YSU). Baseball at Western has a new coach and should see improvement. Soccer is competitive, a new field house will fix track/cc & tennis issues.
Western has a capital campaign that will put over 15 million into the football stadium renovation (completion finally) in the next year or two. It is already slated that a new arena for basketball will be built in the next capital drive (2020 roughly). Playing on campus this year whilst competitive we had a very solid number of people showing up.
Come on' I freaking miss the Valpo games. I know we both have bigger and more traditional rivals but seeing the Crusaders in Macomb again would do me some good.
Keep the possible additions logical. Murray St. can't move football so they are a no. UNK is promising. Robert Morris won't love the travel included and I dare say all schools need to bring things a little closer to home (travel for students is way out of line IMO). XDSU are great competition and such but horrible locations to travel too. Just a fair warning.
I hope Western can get in on this conversation a little bit more. With a more reasonable conference affiliation recruiting etc will be so much easier. I just don't see the SL making it through all of this. Honestly, I don't even seen Valpo staying in the HL, as soon as the MVC knows they can't get SLU/Dayton expect a call with UIC or Belmont.
Wondering the same things myself. 18 Sports (9 Men's teams, 9 Women's teams) which is the same as Valpo except VU has Bowling for the 19th. BB Arena 5,000+, nice baseball stadium, and a real track. 267 miles from Valpo; Valpo's two longest trips are YSU 365 and UWGB 259. For YSU, it's only 10 miles more to Macomb than to UWGB. Oakland and WIU have flipped RPI Rankings these past two years. But I was not following Crusader sports when VU was part of the Mid-Con, so there might be some history there that I am unaware of.
MBB 2012-13 Conf All Valpo RPI Rank 60
South Dakota State 13-3 25-10
Western Illinois 13-3 22-9 RPI Rank 137
North Dakota State 12-4 24-10
Oakland 10-6 16-17 RPI Rank 166
Fort Wayne 7-9 16-17
Omaha 6-10 11-20
South Dakota 5-11 10-20
Kansas City 5-11 8-24
IUPUI 1-15 6-26
MBB 2011-12 Conf All Valpo RPI Rank 115
Oral Roberts 17-1 27-7
South Dakota State 15-3 27-8
Oakland 11-7 20-16 RPI Rank 133
North Dakota State 9-9 17-14
Western Illinois 9-9 18-15 RPI Rank 169
Southern Utah 8-10 14-17
IUPUI 7-11 14-18
Fort Wayne 5-13 11-19
South Dakota 5-13 10-18
Kansas City 4-14 10-21
Honestly I don't want Western Illinois. They are in the middle of nowhere, I mean that part of the state wanted to secede and become "Forgotonia" and besides the past 2-3 seasons they have never done anything basketball wise. I think the HL can do much better than replacing Loyola with replacing the Loyola of Forgotonia. Very few road fans will be able to visit, and I would imagine not many alumni from WIU live in Macomb.
Obviously like everybody knows, Oakland is ideal. I think to fill the 10th spot we can get somebody better. I think we could go after NKU or RMU, which are both pretty close to HL schools, while WIU is pretty far from Chicago. Even the alphabet schools are better fits in the HL than WIU. If WIU can show they can play some basketball over the next couple of seasons, then I would reconsider them as an option. But right now, it doesn't make sense to go after them. I would rather have the Indy or even Fort Wayne market than the Macomb market (if such a thing exists).
Quote from: Western4Life on April 29, 2013, 12:14:36 AMa new field house will fix track/cc & tennis issues.
Quote from: Western4Life on April 29, 2013, 12:14:36 AMIt is already slated that a new arena for basketball will be built in the next capital drive (2020 roughly).
Certainly there is no need for this to be in the Horizon League. Of course you will need to keep promising to put money into athletic facilities but you can act like Valpo and keep making speeches and promises and just keep constructing academic & dorm buildings that will keep the cost of tuition up and your student body as small as possible and far away in the no man's land that is Macomb, IL.How does one even drive to Macomb, IL?Oh yeah, :-[ ;) ;D
If I were driving to Macomb I would use the four lane high way? By next year the new bypass exits will be completed if you want options on where to enter the booming city of Macomb ;D I must point out that Macomb is a classic college town and we have support when the product is worth it. I am not going to apologize for being a teachers college, direction school, or anything else. To be blunt the way I see it is if you are not in the BCS you are the rest...
There hadn't been much reason to attend basketball games before Molinari addressed the programs issues. It took time but we are very solid now and I don't see that changing. Basketball is what we are talking about here right? The improved hoops at Western put a smile on the new school President's face. His focus is on athletics to market the school better so don't be shocked to see some major changes and not just promises. I will be shocked if we don't have a new AD within the next few months as well. Western has spent tens of millions to make the campus more efficient (mostly steam lines) and savings will now propel the next projects. Western does have priorities though, that being football. The basketball arena would be next.
It has been a while since I have heard anyone drop Forgottonia, I suppose something from the 1960's & 1970's like that would be relevant though in 2013. Its not like the state system we are involved in is about to go bankrupt, focusing on the hippie era sounds just about right :crazy: I would question the legitimacy of anyone with a college degree in the Chicagoland area that doesn't know how corrupt politics are and how much of a slant Chicago has against the rest of the state of IL. Are we left behind at times? Yes. Has it become much better? Yes.
Between other colleges and professional sports teams in HL markets it doesn't seem like that big of an issue IMO. Recruiting is helped by markets but national acclaim? Is the HL missing just one final school addition that will land the HL a 50 game ESPN contract? Nope. There are a lot of options, it will forever be changing. I just wanted to offer my ideas, it would be good for Western and I think in time the HL would see a lot of benefit from adding us as well.
I don't think WIU is ready yet for the HL. They have only had 2 seasons where they have shown some improvements in a much weaker Summit League. Am I saying they aren't good, no because they had 2 decent seasons. Nothing spectacular but decent, is that an improvement from what WIU has done, yes. I just don't believe WIU is the right fit for the HL, yes it would greatly benefit WIU in being in a much stronger HL but they don't fit the demographics. They play pretty much in the middle of nowhere.
I would still consider Western Illinois (as a state) as still being well behind the times and in the forgotten land of Illinois. Me being from Illinois and not the Chicago area, the 3 regions in IL are: Chicago, Central, and Southern.... oh yeah there is a western part too.
WIU plays in too small of a town, in an area with no cities that are large enough to make an impact on the HL viewing ratings. If WIU was closer to St. Louis then it might be a fit but where Macomb is in IL there is nothing around it. Not a good fit for any of the HL teams.
I was at the bracketbuster game against Cleveland State and I was impressed with the fan turnout. While I still think you have to go "'round robin hood's barn" as the saying goes to get there from the Valpo area, the path there is definitely not of the back woods variety. All of it is fairly smooth highway. I had no trouble finding the place, and the parking is still plentiful and free.
The fans still seem to think any contact whatsoever is a foul, but Valpo fans were that way in the old Mid-Con too.
As for being out in the middle of nowhere, there's little WIU can do about that except establish a winning tradition, and I suspect they are doing a pretty good job of setting that in motion.
I think our WIU guest makes a respectible case. Adding WIU would give us a broader presence in IL which would help our recruiting efforts there even more and give us a bigger edge over most of the rest of the conf in one of the strongest bb states in the country. You know where it's hard to get to? Belmont- get on I-65 and drive 1 million miles and you're there. You and their 1500 fans. Can you imagine them hosting the HL tournament? This is a mid major conf. People need to quit trying to make it something it's never going to be.
As charter members of the old Mid Con, VU, UWGB, Cleveland State, UIC and Valpo share history with WIU that is substantial. I'm sure that Oakland is first on the list of replacement schools from the Summit League, but there's no reason why WIU couldn't be second given the historical angle IMO--unless of course football is a sticking point. They would need a reasonable travel partner though.
Quote from: Western4Life on April 29, 2013, 12:23:58 PMIf I were driving to Macomb I would use the four lane high way? By next year the new bypass exits will be completed if you want options on where to enter the booming city of Macomb I must point out that Macomb is a classic college town and we have support when the product is worth it. I am not going to apologize for being a teachers college, direction school, or anything else. To be blunt the way I see it is if you are not in the BCS you are the rest...
Just to get to cities around Macomb is a hassle. Can you drive straight from Macomb to Peoria, Springfield, Quad Cities or St Louis on any interstate or "interstate-like" highway? No because no interstate goes to Macomb. People don't pass through that part of western Illinois to get anywhere.I wonder how many posters on this board know exactly where Macomb is and know a highway, 4 lane or not, that goes through Macomb without looking on a map. If the deal were being made today on where to put Western Illinois University I'm sure it would have been put in Quincy because, at least, Quincy has an interstate highway from Springfield that goes to it.
I'd rather have IUPUI over WIU, the Indy market is much bigger than maybe some people driving from Peoria, Bloomington, and from the northern fringe of St. Louis area. WIU hasn't done much basketball wise, besides the past two seasons they have done nothing. Maybe if they had a better basketball resume I wouldn't mind seeing them in the HL, but they don't.
I think adding the Indy market would do more for recruiting, then adding Macomb and surrounding areas, in the least populated part of Illinois.
I am simply arguing that before UIPUI and IPFW the Leathernecks are a FAR better option. We aren't moving back on campus rec centers like commuter schools etc. Many of the mentioned teams would be great additions but considering all factors like football etc (no OVC member with football is gonna get in the MVFC). The SL isn't as bad as you think and we have a great recruiting class coming in. Will we beat out Robert Morris? No. Can Murray St. get football done? No. Do we have history? Yes sir.
WIU is on the upswing in terms of hoops, we are coming around for our facility upgrades in turn, and we offer all the right sports without horrible travel. We aren't going to change the globe but Quincy, Quad Cities, Galesburg, Peoria, and Springfield offer us areas to recruit from. The four lane from Spring field to connect Macomb is under way. You can already go north through Galesburg or southwest to Quincy. It is the route for KC to Chicago. I'd love to see a four lane to Peoria done but we aren't on another planet.
The HL teams should not host their own tourney IMO. I am not sure what the popular opinion on that is here. A fun destination city seems like the way to go. Even the SL has huge ticket sales etc hosting in Sioux Falls.
Not only no, but HELL NO! We would much rather have WIU than IUPUI or IPFW. It doesn't matter how much larger Indianapolis or Fort Wayne are compared to Macomb. Those two schools will NEVER be relevant in their markets. WIU can at least get some fans out to the games that are HL size comparable, as demonstrated when they have had success (2,000-2,500 fans for some past Valpo games). I didn't mind the drive to Macomb for baseball either. Even though we were a perfect 10-0 against WIU while I was in school (men's basketball), they still bring more to the table than either of the alphabet schools
Quote from: Western4Life on April 29, 2013, 02:23:12 PM
I am simply arguing that before UIPUI and IPFW the Leathernecks are a FAR better option. We aren't moving back on campus rec centers like commuter schools etc. Many of the mentioned teams would be great additions but considering all factors like football etc (no OVC member with football is gonna get in the MVFC). The SL isn't as bad as you think and we have a great recruiting class coming in. Will we beat out Robert Morris? No. Can Murray St. get football done? No. Do we have history? Yes sir.
WIU is on the upswing in terms of hoops, we are coming around for our facility upgrades in turn, and we offer all the right sports without horrible travel. We aren't going to change the globe but Quincy, Quad Cities, Galesburg, Peoria, and Springfield offer us areas to recruit from. The four lane from Spring field to connect Macomb is under way. You can already go north through Galesburg or southwest to Quincy. It is the route for KC to Chicago. I'd love to see a four lane to Peoria done but we aren't on another planet.
The HL teams should not host their own tourney IMO. I am not sure what the popular opinion on that is here. A fun destination city seems like the way to go. Even the SL has huge ticket sales etc hosting in Sioux Falls.
There are a few people who disagree, but most on here would say that the #1 seed (or highest remaining seed) hosting the HL tournament makes the most sense to protect seeding. It makes absolutely no sense to play an entire regular season conference schedule, and then to only allow one of your worst performing teams the chance to steal an NCAA bid on their home court, simply by 'buying' the rights to hosting. The team that has the best record through 16-18 games is much more deserving than the team that gets hot over 2-4 games...
I want to see some consistency out of WIU before I jump aboard. Two good seasons in a weak SL isn't enough for me to say, "I want them." The location does hurt, I don't know much about the program. If they continue the success for another 2-3 seasons. Then I would look at them as a legitimate option as future HL expansion. But for next year I don't think I want them. I'd rather just get Oakland and see if we can get somebody much better, like an RMU type school.
I think the HL should pay attention to WIU, but if they fall back into anonymity then forget about it. Two good season IMO doesn't prove to me that they belong in a better league. If they can perhaps win the SL and have 4 or 5 consecutive successful seasons then, I think it would be time to actually consider WIU as a possibility for future HL expansion.
There are a few people who disagree, but most on here would say that the #1 seed (or highest remaining seed) hosting the HL tournament makes the most sense to protect seeding. It makes absolutely no sense to play an entire regular season conference schedule, and then to only allow one of your worst performing teams the chance to steal an NCAA bid on their home court, simply by 'buying' the rights to hosting. The team that has the best record through 16-18 games is much more deserving than the team that gets hot over 2-4 games...
[/quote]
That is fair, I like rewarding the regular season champion in some manner. I am not sure what would keep Western from being capable of hosting such an event. Games saw over 4k fans on numerous occasions this year and students have begun to show up which is a difficult task for any Mid Major. If we played Valpo next year you'd see over 4k fans there easy, book it. Same with UIC.
I like playing Valpo, I can get to the school easy and respect the institution. We would offer a good game and you'd be able to get to Macomb without as much hassle as I think it is made out to be.
And finally, this... Just sayin' http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1273.0 (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1273.0)
Hold off on smashing Macomb too much, we are more of a classic college town than most. Pros and cons to everything. I support the watch and wait mentality as the program has gotten better for hoops and the coach isn't going to leave anytime soon. WIU will show they can compete. It will give the school time to get a new AD and football renovation completed. Hopefully a new arena plan will be on the table as well sooner than later. If a new AD is put in charge IMO I could see a lot of donors coming back that have been a little too quiet as of late. That could be another positive with a move, I keep looking for things to sell us on. We won't all be pros but the cons shouldn't qualify us for a veto IMO.
PS, Hearing a lot of chatter on those UIPUI and IPFW boards... :thumbsup: Overwhelming fan support from what I have read.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 29, 2013, 02:38:16 PM
I want to see some consistency out of WIU before I jump aboard. Two good seasons in a weak SL isn't enough for me to say, "I want them." The location does hurt, I don't know much about the program. If they continue the success for another 2-3 seasons. Then I would look at them as a legitimate option as future HL expansion. But for next year I don't think I want them. I'd rather just get Oakland and see if we can get somebody much better, like an RMU type school.
I think the HL should pay attention to WIU, but if they fall back into anonymity then forget about it. Two good season IMO doesn't prove to me that they belong in a better league. If they can perhaps win the SL and have 4 or 5 consecutive successful seasons then, I think it would be time to actually consider WIU as a possibility for future HL expansion.
You keep saying a weak SL. Over the last 2 seasons, they have been only 4-5 conference spots below us, which is a pretty minimal difference on the whole. NDSU and SDSU have been able to beat BCS programs, while we have not. Oakland has beaten us a few times in a row for some god awful reason, and IPFW/IUPUI have also beaten us in recent years. It is not that large of a difference between the better teams in the SL, and the middle/low end of the HL. Also, RMU is in an even less successful league, the NEC, and hasn't done anything spectacular recently either.
The biggest problem is who would they be travel partners with. Most of the conference already has natural travel partners: UWGB/UWM, UIC/Valpo, Detroit/Oakland, CSU/YSU. WIU does not work with Wright State as a travel partner. NKU makes much more sense at this time.
I do understand the travel partner issue. I am not sure if any other micro region team could do. EIU would be a good squad for us to team up with to join but they have the football issue (MVFC is too legit). Western won't go to the OVC because the step down in football but I had hoped we had a shot in the HL. With UMKC gone and adding DU the SL will bump considerably in RPI etc so I am not here begging. I just feel WIU could be better off in the Great Lakes area rather than Great Plains of the MidWest.
We will see, I wouldn't mind seeing Valpo and WIU have a home and away regardless.
Quote from: Western4Life on April 29, 2013, 03:37:03 PMWe will see, I wouldn't mind seeing Valpo and WIU have a home and away regardless.
Agreed. I still have the 3OT game on VHS tape. CLASSIC.
Thanks for representing your school (and fan base) on here so well.
Quote from: Western4Life on April 29, 2013, 02:47:52 PMThat is fair, I like rewarding the regular season champion in some manner. I am not sure what would keep Western from being capable of hosting such an event. Games saw over 4k fans on numerous occasions this year and students have begun to show up which is a difficult task for any Mid Major. If we played Valpo next year you'd see over 4k fans there easy, book it. Same with UIC.
Not sure what the capacity is, but they have upper level on both sides, and both end zones have healthy capacity, so they might actually do better than the ARC in these regards. The only thing about the upper level is I think there are pillars getting in the way of sight lines (unless I'm remembering wrong).
How about Hotel capacity?
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 29, 2013, 04:33:45 PM
Quote from: Western4Life on April 29, 2013, 02:47:52 PMThat is fair, I like rewarding the regular season champion in some manner. I am not sure what would keep Western from being capable of hosting such an event. Games saw over 4k fans on numerous occasions this year and students have begun to show up which is a difficult task for any Mid Major. If we played Valpo next year you'd see over 4k fans there easy, book it. Same with UIC.
Not sure what the capacity is, but they have upper level on both sides, and both end zones have healthy capacity, so they might actually do better than the ARC in these regards. The only thing about the upper level is I think there are pillars getting in the way of sight lines (unless I'm remembering wrong).
How about Hotel capacity?
WIU Athletic web site says 5,139.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 29, 2013, 08:48:25 PMHow about Hotel capacity?
WIU Athletic web site says 5,139.
(http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/91146_7RsNVGhKrBQtER4.jpg)
...that's pretty big.
also, since a3uge judges you based on your wikipedia page, WIU's is crap. Just giving it a cursory glance, they claim "Western Illinois University is the only non-military university to use a military nickname" (false; Ave Maria University is the Gyrenes) and the number one alum listed is Don Beebe, which, false. Any hardcore Bills fan (such as myself) could tell you he went to Chadron State. It's in Nebraska, and makes WIU seem like Michigan State in comparison.
Imagine the good I could do for society if I spent as much time on Wiki as on here.
Quote from: valpotx on April 29, 2013, 02:55:42 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on April 29, 2013, 02:38:16 PM
I want to see some consistency out of WIU before I jump aboard. Two good seasons in a weak SL isn't enough for me to say, "I want them." The location does hurt, I don't know much about the program. If they continue the success for another 2-3 seasons. Then I would look at them as a legitimate option as future HL expansion. But for next year I don't think I want them. I'd rather just get Oakland and see if we can get somebody much better, like an RMU type school.
I think the HL should pay attention to WIU, but if they fall back into anonymity then forget about it. Two good season IMO doesn't prove to me that they belong in a better league. If they can perhaps win the SL and have 4 or 5 consecutive successful seasons then, I think it would be time to actually consider WIU as a possibility for future HL expansion.
You keep saying a weak SL. Over the last 2 seasons, they have been only 4-5 conference spots below us, which is a pretty minimal difference on the whole. NDSU and SDSU have been able to beat BCS programs, while we have not. Oakland has beaten us a few times in a row for some god awful reason, and IPFW/IUPUI have also beaten us in recent years. It is not that large of a difference between the better teams in the SL, and the middle/low end of the HL. Also, RMU is in an even less successful league, the NEC, and hasn't done anything spectacular recently either.
The HL finished 12th this year, the Summit 19th. 7 places is a huge difference. By the way, that's 12th in our 1st season w/o Butler vs. the Summit with the Dakotas carrying the RPI load. Anyone moving from the Summit to the HL is getting a big boost. For instance, I think Oakland will immediately get a big boost in recruiting, as we know from our own experience.
Note: the 2 conf's were only 2 places apart last year, but 10 places apart 2 years ago.
Macomb has enough hotel capacity etc. The square is classic America and has a lot of places worth visiting. I can't argue the access because it is limited (however much better than the Mid-Con days for sure). Macomb is a quality place that honestly lacks a lot of the problems larger cities have. Macomb's size allows it to cater to the needs of the school better than most communities as well IMO. A little splash of money and a new face or two and Western like any school can have legit success. Within the next 15 years Western and Macomb will increase what they have to offer but so will everyone else. The main point I want to make is we are understanding of our own issues but none of them should limit us from joining any mid major conference. Some schools and leagues constantly forget unless you are in the BCS there isn't a lot of opportunity out there to make a huge impact. Western is focused on producing scholar athletes and seems to do a good job with those goals in mind. I hope that would help us in this process for what it is worth.
Hypothetically, what would change the perception of Western? Macomb growing by 5k-10k in population? More access to Peoria/Springfield? New arena? NCAA/NIT appearance and run? All of the above lol?
FYI, if you swapped DU and UMKC which we will next year the SL would have jumped four spots higher in the ranking. Add UIPUI and Omaha are improving and the SL is on the uptick. No more Southern Utah or Centenary. The Dakotas offer some stability and the SL could always add Chicago St. if worst came to worst. I just want to see more success and stability for Western, I believe that lies in the Horizon. Less travel and more natural rivals.
From the Wright State Board:
I just got the word that Oakland was voted into the HL today by the presidents. The HL should have an official announcement this week.
Quote from: valpopal on April 29, 2013, 10:03:32 PM
From the Wright State Board:
I just got the word that Oakland was voted into the HL today by the presidents. The HL should have an official announcement this week.
I will believe it when I see it. It is better than them saying Oakland was voted on and it's a no go. Most likely they'll be the next member of the HL which is HUGE upgrade from Loyola. So if it's true I'm pretty happy overall where the HL stands next season.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 29, 2013, 09:12:05 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 29, 2013, 08:48:25 PMHow about Hotel capacity?
WIU Athletic web site says 5,139.
(http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/91146_7RsNVGhKrBQtER4.jpg)
damn - if macomb looks like that, why the hell'd i end up at valpo? ;)
We're down 2 programs in 2 years, and we finally pick up 1 program in year-2. Oakland made it clear from the get-go that they wanted in. Why in the heck did it take so long, unless Loyola conspired with Detroit Mercy to keep it from happening. If we learn that those 2 have been in cahoots, it will make me dislike Detroit Mercy, their dysfunctional athletic department, and their classless basketball program even more, if that's possible.
Quote from: wh on April 29, 2013, 10:30:21 PM
We're down 2 programs in 2 years, and we finally pick up 1 program in year-2. Oakland made it clear from the get-go that they wanted in. Why in the heck did it take so long, unless Loyola conspired with Detroit Mercy to keep it from happening. If we learn that those 2 have been in cahoots, it will make me dislike Detroit Mercy, their dysfunctional athletic department, and their classless basketball program even more, if that's possible.
Just another thing for UDM fans to be upset about: Junior leaving, losing in the tourney, being jealous of Valpo, and having Oakland who will be the Greater Detroit Metro Area mid-major program of choice. UDM is just upset that they're in Detroit. Probably the biggest disadvantage for recruiting is being located in Detroit. Don't know many kids who are like, "Hey ma, I think I want to go to school in Detroit..."
Good luck to UDM in the future, they will certainly need it after Oakland starts to get the Detroit-area talent after being in a better conference.
Now UDM can go belly up like their AD went heels up for former Leatherneck Head Coach and huge flippin embarrassment Derek Thomas. He derailed our program for a number of years >:( and is one of the main reasons people say things like... Umm Western hasn't proven anything for so many years etc etc. Derek Thomas come on down.... we have a prize for you it is a career win % of .28!!! Ohhh what a recruiter he was, he had about as much discipline as a guy who would get fired for sleeping with his boss in front of student athletes. ???
Keep it classy Detroit. Double birds' for hiring that guy.
Gee fellas, nobody told me we could crap on UDM and I would have a free DT shot. This board is great. ;D
For what it's worth, I enjoyed playing against/beating WIU in baseball as well ;). Oakland will be good for the conference, and get us to the desired 6 baseball programs again.
Quote from: valpotx on April 30, 2013, 12:34:19 AM
For what it's worth, I enjoyed playing against/beating WIU in baseball as well ;). Oakland will be good for the conference, and get us to the desired 6 baseball programs again.
Ouch :-[ Baseball has a new coach that was a long time assistant at Iowa. He has a good feel and will have success IMO. These issues with baseball numbers are goofy. I almost thought the SL & HL may do a coop for baseball but both have the minimum currently allowed. Add us to the HL at this point so we can win back some of those Mid Con memories. Until then I am stuck :-X
I just had to throw that in being a VU baseball player alum ;). Even though there would be absolutely no pitching in the games between us and WIU at times, they were fun. I think we won a conference tourney game against you guys that was like 24-22 my FR year. It was HR city at ORU's field that day with the wind.
Quote from: wh on April 29, 2013, 10:30:21 PMdysfunctional athletic department
That, is an understatement!
I think the HL should give consideration towards WIU vice UMKC and IPFW. I'm neutral when it comes to IUPUI.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 29, 2013, 10:20:00 PM
Quote from: valpopal on April 29, 2013, 10:03:32 PM
From the Wright State Board:
I just got the word that Oakland was voted into the HL today by the presidents. The HL should have an official announcement this week.
I will believe it when I see it. It is better than them saying Oakland was voted on and it's a no go. Most likely they'll be the next member of the HL which is HUGE upgrade from Loyola. So if it's true I'm pretty happy overall where the HL stands next season.
So, last year we lost Butler and the 10,000 seat Hinkle
Last year, UWM moved to the Klottsche at 3,500 seats (from @12k US Cellular)
This year we lose Loyola with it's current Gentile seating at 4,486 (and they will expand)
Now, we are possibly getting Oakland and their 4,000 gym.
Please tell me you are not in the Business School and graduating next year.
All indications are that the Horizon (without adding teams like Evansville, Belmont, Murray State) is actually getting smaller. This will only make making money that much harder.
Quote from: motowntitan on April 30, 2013, 07:46:21 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on April 29, 2013, 10:20:00 PM
Quote from: valpopal on April 29, 2013, 10:03:32 PM
From the Wright State Board:
I just got the word that Oakland was voted into the HL today by the presidents. The HL should have an official announcement this week.
I will believe it when I see it. It is better than them saying Oakland was voted on and it's a no go. Most likely they'll be the next member of the HL which is HUGE upgrade from Loyola. So if it's true I'm pretty happy overall where the HL stands next season.
So, last year we lost Butler and the 10,000 seat Hinkle
Last year, UWM moved to the Klottsche at 3,500 seats (from @12k US Cellular)
This year we lose Loyola with it's current Gentile seating at 4,486 (and they will expand)
Now, we are possibly getting Oakland and their 4,000 gym.
Please tell me you are not in the Business School and graduating next year.
All indications are that the Horizon (without adding teams like Evansville, Belmont, Murray State) is actually getting smaller. This will only make making money that much harder.
Someone on your board is reporting that the presidents took a vote on Oakland yesterday, and Detroit vetoed it. Do you know anything about that?
Oakland's Board of Trustees has a "special formal meeting" scheduled for Tuesday.
Quote from: wh on April 30, 2013, 07:55:47 PM
Someone on your board is reporting that the presidents took a vote on Oakland yesterday, and Detroit vetoed it. Do you know anything about that?
WH,
No, I am a season ticket holder since the Perry Watson days. But that is my extent of involvement with the athletic department.
It is my understanding that the veto needs to have additional support. This support was allegedly with Butler and Loyola in the past. The following statements make me think Oakland will get in (if this is taking place):
1) There is only one other private school left- Valpo.
2) Lutherans hate the Catholics
3) Valpo hates Detroit
4) Valpo was like 200-1 against Oakland
Valpo will welcome their old beatdown foe and screw Detroit at the same time. ;)
Quote from: motowntitan on May 01, 2013, 06:51:09 PM
Quote from: wh on April 30, 2013, 07:55:47 PM
Someone on your board is reporting that the presidents took a vote on Oakland yesterday, and Detroit vetoed it. Do you know anything about that?
WH,
No, I am a season ticket holder since the Perry Watson days. But that is my extent of involvement with the athletic department.
It is my understanding that the veto needs to have additional support. This support was allegedly with Butler and Loyola in the past. The following statements make me think Oakland will get in (if this is taking place):
1) There is only one other private school left- Valpo.
2) Lutherans hate the Catholics
3) Valpo hates Detroit
4) Valpo was like 200-1 against Oakland
Valpo will welcome their old beatdown foe and screw Detroit at the same time. ;)
Well now, let's clear up a few details. Lutherans do not hate Catholics, we simply view them as having a few theologicals issues improperly interpreted. And yes, unlike the Catholic view of the 60's and before, we are both going to heaven!
Now, as for Oakland being our old "beat down foe", it is true that we hold a dominating 17-5 record all time versus Oakland but they have won 2 of the last 3.
Jesuit schools aren't even Catholic. I don't know why any Lutheran would dislike Marquette, SLU, etc for being Catholic (Jesuit whatever) affiliated when nobody there seems to want anything to do with being Catholics.
Was that too offensive ?
Quote from: a3uge on May 01, 2013, 09:22:48 PMI don't know why any Lutheran would dislike Marquette, SLU, etc for being Catholic when nobody there seems to want anything to do with being Catholic
ok, ok, man, you've got to stop posting like this or people really will think we're the same person.
Quote from: vu72 on May 01, 2013, 08:21:56 PM
Quote from: motowntitan on May 01, 2013, 06:51:09 PM
Quote from: wh on April 30, 2013, 07:55:47 PM
Someone on your board is reporting that the presidents took a vote on Oakland yesterday, and Detroit vetoed it. Do you know anything about that?
WH,
No, I am a season ticket holder since the Perry Watson days. But that is my extent of involvement with the athletic department.
It is my understanding that the veto needs to have additional support. This support was allegedly with Butler and Loyola in the past. The following statements make me think Oakland will get in (if this is taking place):
1) There is only one other private school left- Valpo.
2) Lutherans hate the Catholics
3) Valpo hates Detroit
4) Valpo was like 200-1 against Oakland
Valpo will welcome their old beatdown foe and screw Detroit at the same time. ;)
Well now, let's clear up a few details. Lutherans do not hate Catholics, we simply view them as having a few theologicals issues improperly interpreted. And yes, unlike the Catholic view of the 60's and before, we are both going to heaven!
Now, as for Oakland being our old "beat down foe", it is true that we hold a dominating 17-5 record all time versus Oakland but they have won 2 of the last 3.
I believe that we were 11-0 against Oakland in my 5 years at VU (13 or 14-0 all-time), so it is amazing to see that we are now 17-5
Oakland has won 5 of the last 6 vs Valpo including 2-0 against the past two Horizon Leage champs. Oakland will be very good next year with a kid who may end up the POY.
Quote from: Grizz on May 01, 2013, 11:38:09 PM
Oakland has won 5 of the last 6 vs Valpo including 2-0 against the past two Horizon Leage champs. Oakland will be very good next year with a kid who may end up the POY.
Grizz is
BACK!
Quote from: Grizz on May 01, 2013, 11:38:09 PM
Oakland has won 5 of the last 6 vs Valpo including 2-0 against the past two Horizon Leage champs. Oakland will be very good next year with a kid who may end up the POY.
Indeed. Oakland beat Valpo at the O'Rena in 2006 and swept us in 2007. In the current series, we won the Lou Henson tourney at the O'Rena, but they fought back from a 17-point deficit at the ARC and a 9 pt deficit at the O'Rena to take the 2 remaining games in the series.
I swear if they could schedule a Valpo Thurs-Saturday Oak/Detroit weekend, I will be at both games. Of course, there's a better chance of that happening if HL adds a 10th team for 2013-2014 ;)
:twocents:
WIU..... and UMKC to the HL. We are 4:20 minutes apart and they are putting $ into sports finally. They will begin playing games at the Municipal Arena as well rather than on campus. I feel UIPUI and UMKC have shown too little support to be worthy of an addition. Say what you want but the last home game I saw in Macomb had over 4,500 people and a co-SL regular season championship celebration was had. UMKC was horrible but could offer a nice market which HL likes with WIU as a decent travel partner since that was mentioned before as an issue.
Travel Partners. UMKC/WIU, GB/UWM, UIC/Valpo, Oakland/Detroit, Wright St/UNK, YSU/CSU Obviously that is 12 members though. Baseball would be fine at least, so would the foot print and getting games which can be hard for a relevant mid major conference.
I know people will wait on the MVC but they may be very content to stay where they are due to NCAA credit sharing. I doubt many HL want to give that up themselves in the conference transition period we are having.
Quote from: Western4Life on May 02, 2013, 02:46:07 PM
:twocents:
WIU..... and UMKC to the HL. We are 4:20 minutes apart and they are putting $ into sports finally. They will begin playing games at the Municipal Arena as well rather than on campus. I feel UIPUI and UMKC have shown too little support to be worthy of an addition. Say what you want but the last home game I saw in Macomb had over 4,500 people and a co-SL regular season championship celebration was had. UMKC was horrible but could offer a nice market which HL likes with WIU as a decent travel partner since that was mentioned before as an issue.
Travel Partners. UMKC/WIU, GB/UWM, UIC/Valpo, Oakland/Detroit, Wright St/UNK, YSU/CSU Obviously that is 12 members though. Baseball would be fine at least, so would the foot print and getting games which can be hard for a relevant mid major conference.
I know people will wait on the MVC but they may be very content to stay where they are due to NCAA credit sharing. I doubt many HL want to give that up themselves in the conference transition period we are having.
Did you mean to write IPFW, Western4life? If not, then you're undermining your own argument.
UMKC is a big time NO in my opinion. They have done nothing basketball wise PERIOD. They don't fit our demographics at all, besides opening up a KC market they do nothing for the HL except worsen the HL's credibility.
WIU is a possibility for the future. Right now I want to work on adding Oakland and after that look to a RMU or NKU type team to add as our tenth program. If they HL looks to expand to 12 then I think we could look to WIU instead of IUPUI or IPFW to increase to 12.
Like I said, right now we need to worry about Oakland since they are our first choice right now and we need to sew that deal up.
UMKC HELL NO!!!
#68, I did mean to put UIPUI and IPFW without adding UMKC but honestly they and Chicago St. are all the same thing IMO for what they bring to a conference. They are simply the closest school to WIU that matches the HL foot print (metro city & new focus on hoops).
WIU is a better option than UMKC (same as UIPUI/IPFW) but I have been surprised to see the money UMKC has spent recently to upgrade their reputation. UNK does make the most sense but I have been brain storming on a logical option to get WIU in the mix too so bare with if I seem too loony. At this point I want out of the SL. There is no easy add aside from Chicago State due to football and who wants to see that mess in their league? New arena or not Chicago State is the team that when you lost to them your coach makes you run the next day all practice. That applies for any sport they sponsor. ???
UMKC does have a nice market. I wouldn't have even mention UMKC before this year but moving to a legit basketball home and acquiring a competent coach were smart decisions. When the MVC considered them I was floored but aparently they are an option for several leagues just because they are on the geographical line where the Mid West trails into the Rocky's. KU and KSU would have had Big 12 issues and Wichita State seems to be stuck alone in the MVC. UMKC is just a buffer but it added one that WIU could easily travel with.
Robert Morris express any interest in a move? I am more curious than anything.
UMKC:HL::Loyola:MVC
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3oovqY2aT1qii6tmo1_250.gif)
Quote from: classof2014 on May 02, 2013, 02:57:44 PMUMKC is a big time NO in my opinion. They have done nothing basketball wise PERIOD. They don't fit our demographics at all, besides opening up a KC market they do nothing for the HL except worsen the HL's credibility.
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/330010145214058496
Very early on, I was asking: "Why not WIU?" Got shot down pretty quick. But now as the dust settles, and based on your posts plus the competitive men's soccer that has happened recently, and not to mention the lack of other great options, I think WIU is at least in the conversation. I personally would like to see Oakland and WIU come in together to fill the slots vacated by the school from down south and Loyola to bring us back to 10 while adding 2 baseball schools. Both have demonstrated D-I competitiveness at the top half of the Summit. Now......... NKU is very appealing from a travel partner perspective and because of all the $$ they've invested in going D-I, but their D-I track record is still in its infancy. At least you guys have a track record.
Now, regarding Robert Morris: Sorry, but as an easterner, I'm thinking that they are just too eastern oriented. Does anyone think they will break off their scholarshipped NEC football program AND their scholarshipped lacrosse program to upgrade basketball???? In the east, for many schools, MBB is second tier or shares the top tier. They have to compete against ice hockey for fan support. I just checked the RMU web site for this post -- the first two pictures and stories that popped up were about hockey and lacrosse. Some posters are quick to dismiss midwest schools that carry a FCS scholarship football program as a distraction. That ain't nothin' compared to eastern hockey that clamors for the same in-season headline space as MBB.
No, the HL needs to stay in the midwest where BB is the driver. Please forget about RMU -- it's not worth the effort.
Personally, I feel the new coach at UMKC will have their program stomping the competition in the WAC and then they will try to re-enter the market as a squad that has accomplished something. All I know is if they are willing to drop $ that means they are better than most. I feel KC is a traditional Midwest market too while Pittsburgh is not. RMU is legit but they try to attract students for the eastern coast.
WIU would be able to improve the level of recruiting and support with a move to the HL. That is a fact. Shieza, I'd send in 10K alone right now if they announced it.
Also, the state of IL pass the new road project list. Macomb actually did well and there will be access directly to St. Louis (Alton, IL all the way up to the Quad Cities). With that major addition Macomb isn't as far out of the way. Peoria phase I of construction also got fully funded including the initial roads.
Ten years from now nobody will complain about access to Macomb IMO. Now if the hotel and beach in that picture could just be completed ;)
Edit: I will still complain actually, they really need access to Peoria asap. STL and QC interests got the most recent four lane access done. The road is fully funded. Whether or not we see those checks bounce is on the state. It is an improvement at least, I am not saying it deserves a parade. It will likely be 15-20 years from now before the entire area of Macomb has much easier access.
Quote from: Western4Life on May 02, 2013, 04:46:33 PM#68, I did mean to put UIPUI and IPFW without adding
Are you misspelling IUPUI on purpose or are you that bad at recognizing that you have put UIPUI several times. IUPUI / UIPUI -- do you see the difference?
c'mon, man, "ooey pooey". of course it's intentional -- it's funny.
Apostle, you crack me up! But of course I'm on my third glass of Bogle Phantom (great California red blend). Try it if you can find it.
Oh, BTW I'm 62 not 68. Has nothing to do with grad class, just position (RG/LB).
Thanks!
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/A6967-Fletch-Lives-1989-Chevy-Chase-Don-Borckett-Jordan-Lund-/00/s/Mjk0WDM2OA==/$T2eC16dHJH8E9qSEW9BvBP+gZHE,)!~~60_35.JPG)
FLETCH LIVES (1989)
Sheriff (Don Brockett)
→ Were y'all doin' drugs?
Irwin 'Fletch' Fletcher (Chevy Chase)
→ Just Bogle.
Sheriff
→ Bogle? What's Bogle?
Irwin 'Fletch' Fletcher
→ It's a very popular drug. Made from grapes.
Sheriff
→ You're under arrest.
Irwin 'Fletch' Fletcher
→ What's the charge?
Sheriff
→ Pissin' me off.
Irwin 'Fletch' Fletcher
→ Is that a felony or a misdimeanor?
It was just a typing error, obviously I know who and what IUPUI is but just didn't take the time to read it thoroughly. IUPUI just catches me for the way I type too it seems. My bad. "I feel shame" Slapshot: You feel Shame (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGKdle1bbvo#ws)
I wanna do it one last time tho so I can get it out of my system UIPUI... ha when I typed it things felt so natural. Am I the only one that feels a name change should be in order for these schools? Just for marketing at least. Was Ft. Wayne State really that bad?
I can just see the initial decision to name the school: "Woah WOW Indiana University... AND Purdue University... TEAMING UP in Indianapolis... What should we call it???"
Something noteworthy about IUPUI is that it happens to be a palindrome - probably the only university palindrome in the country. Ok, now that everyone has looked up the definition for palindrome, I never said it was interesting, only noteworthy. ;)
wow
If you are really interested here is a history of how IU and Purdue melded together in Indianapolis. I read over it quickly and did not see anything about how the two schools chose the name other than this:
The first dean of the new School of Liberal Arts was Dr. Taylor, a revered and honored community leader, especially among the African American community. He headed the Downtown Campus, and then the SLA, for twelve, highly significant years, 1966-1978. Thus he played a large role in working out the details of the merger as IU-I and PU-I became IUPUI.
http://www.iupui.edu/spirit/history/history-1971.html (http://www.iupui.edu/spirit/history/history-1971.html)
wh, while not always considered a college program, there is the AFA...Air Force Academy. Palindromes at their finest.
a man, a plan, a canal...
as a dead languages major, palindrome is from two greek words meaning "the Alaska stadium Governor Sarah built".
Er, actually "to run back/again" :)
Quote from: valporun on May 03, 2013, 02:30:24 PM
wh, while not always considered a college program, there is the AFA...Air Force Academy. Palindromes at their finest.
Er... Valporun, in your example don't you mean PalinDRONES?
I thought about that, #62, but the red line underneath was really thin, and I didn't want that troubling me.
*dying laughing.
This is why I love this board.
Not sure if anyone has focused on this or if I missed it, but the person just named the new interim AD at Northern Kentucky is a former Wright State AD, who helped guide them during their transition into the Horizon League. He was also a Horizon League insider for a number of years. Could be coincidence, but it has been no secret that the goal of Northern Kentucky is inclusion in the HL.
Also, as some posters have indicated, Northern Kentucky would be a good fit for a few reasons. Therefore, with this hiring there should be an easier path to add Northern Kentucky to the Horizon League if the parties eventually decide to do so—maybe not for 2013-2014, but possibly for 2014-2015.
Quote from: valpopal on May 08, 2013, 09:53:58 AMNot sure if anyone has focused on this or if I missed it, but the person just named the new interim AD at Northern Kentucky is a former Wright State AD, who helped guide them during their transition into the Horizon League. He was also a Horizon League insider for a number of years. Could be coincidence, but it has been no secret that the goal of Northern Kentucky is inclusion in the HL. Also, as some posters have indicated, Northern Kentucky would be a good fit for a few reasons. Therefore, with this hiring there should be an easier path to add Northern Kentucky to the Horizon League if the parties eventually decide to do so—maybe not for 2013-2014, but possibly for 2014-2015.
Valpopal, great insight! Very interesting connection of the dots. Thanks for sharing! I am very much in the camp that Northern Kentucky makes a lot of sense for the HL and has a lot of upside from an athletic perspective. Fits geographically. Travel partner for Wright State. Gains recruiting access to attractive Cincy metropolitan market. Very nice athletic facilities. Demonstrated financial commitment of the school to athletics. Mutual interest so easier sell to accept invitation. Win/win, so lets make it happen in fairly short order. No reason to wait. Gets us to 10 schools now, and if Belmont and/or Murry State want to come on board afterward, then we expand to 12, no problem.
BTW, NKU has a board of trustees meeting at 1 pm today, but no word if it relates to anything in athletics.
Quote from: valpopal on May 08, 2013, 09:53:58 AMNot sure if anyone has focused on this or if I missed it, but the person just named the new interim AD at Northern Kentucky is a former Wright State AD, who helped guide them during their transition into the Horizon League. He was also a Horizon League insider for a number of years. Could be coincidence, but it has been no secret that the goal of Northern Kentucky is inclusion in the HL. Also, as some posters have indicated, Northern Kentucky would be a good fit for a few reasons. Therefore, with this hiring there should be an easier path to add Northern Kentucky to the Horizon League if the parties eventually decide to do so—maybe not for 2013-2014, but possibly for 2014-2015.
Here's the link for the news from valpopal about the interim AD just named at NKU:
http://www.kyforward.com/our-northern-kentucky/2013/04/01/nku-turns-to-former-wright-state-ad-to-lead-department-during-search-for-new-director/ (http://www.kyforward.com/our-northern-kentucky/2013/04/01/nku-turns-to-former-wright-state-ad-to-lead-department-during-search-for-new-director/)
Very interesting.......
Quote from: valpopal on May 08, 2013, 09:53:58 AMthe person just named the new interim AD at Northern Kentucky is a former Wright State AD, who helped guide them during their transition into the Horizon League. He was also a Horizon League insider for a number of years.
This is great work. Kudos to your detective-ness.
This post and Tx's are great examples of why I love the internet. How else would I learn things as they are happening, instead of in some press release I probably would have missed? C'mon, NKU!
Also, can we have your Rossis too?
http://www.allkyhoops.com/2013/04/three-players-transferring-from.html (http://www.allkyhoops.com/2013/04/three-players-transferring-from.html)
NKU seems to be gaining a great deal of momentum as #10 amongst HL fans...probably for good reason. Though I'm not against the move (it very well may be the best realistic expansion option left on the table) I don't think it's the slam dunk perfect move that some (including our friend over at PantherU) believe. In many ways, it looks very similar to the gamble that the MVC made adding Loyola over Valpo or ORU.
For starters, we would be assuming that an investment in facility improvements will lead to an improved product on the field. Whereas Loyola has a history of bad D-I basketball, NKU has a history of good (though never to national championship-level) play in D-II. In both cases, the new league would be gambling that the programs are on an upswing that will be maintainable.
The other argument I've heard regards how this will get the league into another basketball crazy state (Kentucky) and a major media market (Cincinnati). Though this is technically true, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound? I've spent significant time in Cleveland, Chicago, and Milwaukee...to say the HL schools represented in those markets (CSU, UIC, UWM) are an afterthought would be an understatement. Though it would help recruiting the area, I sincerely doubt NKU would get much coverage competing with Ohio State, Kentucky, Cincinnati, Xavier, and even Miami (OH) for Cincinnati media attention.
None of this means I'm against NKU, far from it. I just wouldn't be so quick to move on NKU without evaluating other options. There is no choice that is as good of a fit for the league at #10 as Oakland was at #9.
I do like the idea of NKU, I think they have a lot more potential to do something compared to Loyola. I could also see NKU joining the HL as possibly opening the doors to another Kentucky team and maybe even a certain Tennessee team ;)
Quote from: Dave_2010 on May 08, 2013, 12:52:18 PMto say the HL schools represented in those markets (CSU, UIC, UWM) are an afterthought would be an understatement
I think you mean "overstatement".
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 08, 2013, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: Dave_2010 on May 08, 2013, 12:52:18 PMto say the HL schools represented in those markets (CSU, UIC, UWM) are an afterthought would be an understatement
I think you mean "overstatement".
Well played :clap:
Quote from: Dave_2010 on May 08, 2013, 12:52:18 PM
I just wouldn't be so quick to move on NKU without evaluating other options. There is no choice that is as good of a fit for the league at #10 as Oakland was at #9.
I beg to differ. That choice at #10 that would be as good as Oakland at #9 would be Belmont. There is still hope that they might come. Maybe not this year, but there is still hope. NKU is a great possibility as well. I also think, based on the invitation of Oakland that the HL has and is doing its due diligence in evaluating options. They don't want another Youngstown State, by reacting in haste. Although Oakland was always a choice if we ever expanded again, the HL still had to do the work and analysis, statistical evaluations, etc. I do believe we'll be a 12-team league and eventually surpass the A-10 and MVC.
Quote from: Dave_2010 on May 08, 2013, 12:52:18 PM
"NKU has a history of good (though never to national championship-level) play in D-II."
NKU was Div. II National runner up in 1995-1996 and 1996-1997. They lost to Cal State Bakersfield by 1 in the 1997 game.
Quote from: nkvu on May 08, 2013, 10:29:39 PMNKU was Div. II National runner up in 1995-1996 and 1996-1997. They lost to Cal State Bakersfield by 1 in the 1997 game.
Boom goes the dynamite! (Not whole clip, just the one line) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iky7tr_6Y4k#)
Do we now give Northern Kentucky the edge as an eventual entry into the Horizon League as NKU today moved another step closer toward possibly joining the HL?
Northern Kentucky has just hired Green Bay's Athletic Director, Ken Bothof. He was also a chair of the Horizon League Executive Committee and a chair of the Horizon League Finance Committee. He is replacing interim AD Mike Cusack, formerly the Athletic Director at Wright State and the person who arranged Wright State's move from the Mid-Continent Conference into the Horizon League. Bothof should be able to negotiate a smooth transition to the Horizon League for NKU.
The description of NKU's athletic program (the teams' accomplishments, the attendance figures, the academic success, the facilities, and the fundraising campaign) in the article announcing Bothof's hiring reads like it was designed as a case for entry into the Horizon League.
http://www.nku.edu/news/_130626bothof.html?DB_OEM_ID=22500 (http://www.nku.edu/news/_130626bothof.html?DB_OEM_ID=22500)