I was looking at some of the results from the Horizon League Championships and saw how far we are behind the other teams.
In the Track and Field Championships we did not finish last and posted a few championship performances. With the addition of the new track this should only improve.
The swim teams are a different matter. Our school records aren't even close to where they need to be to compete in the Horizon.
Here is an example (picked arbitrarily with no intent to single out this athlete):
Gonzalo Castro Diaz (Mexico City, Mexico) is the new record holder in the 200 yard butterfly with a 1:53.32 finish. The sophomore claimed 15th place with the record-setting time.
So this school record was good for 15th place?? Should we drop swimming? The cost of replacing a very old pool will no doubt be substantial and unlikely to happen in our lifetimes. What to do??
I think one of the biggest problems is that the pool at the Super 8 off Laporte is nicer than the one at VU.
The positive is that we are breaking school records, even though they are 20 seconds behind top finishers. Maybe we will have a better pool setup in the fieldhouse, whenever that gets built?
Quote from: a3uge on March 03, 2014, 11:52:22 AMI think one of the biggest problems is that the pool at the Super 8 off Laporte is nicer than the one at VU.
VUFZ SENTENCE HALL OF FAME
I'm not sure how title 9 or whatever works, but I don't think swimming and diving is going anywhere. Especially when we are smashing records.
My oldest daughter was a swimmer at Concordia Lutheran High School under then head coach John Gibson. John is a very respected coach and now director of Northwest Aquatic. At that time Concordia had one of the best smaller school teams in the state and was fairly competitive against big schools like Homestead and Snider. My daughter was a "good" swimmer on that team, swimming the 500 (longest high school distance) and winning a fair number of meets. She came in 5th at sectionals her senior year with the sectional winner posting a 5:01:44. She briefly looked at swimming at the universities she visited, one of which was VU, and in 2002 her best time, in the mid 5:20's, would have put her in the top ten all time in the 500. If you know how grueling swimming can be, it is no wonder that an average high school swimmer does not continue on into college swimming. If we are going to be attractive to more than the "average" swimmer than something needs to be done about facilities, either at the university or within a reasonable distance from school.
Quote from: FWalum on March 04, 2014, 11:29:08 AMMy oldest daughter was a swimmer at Concordia Lutheran High School under then head coach John Gibson. John is a very respected coach and now director of Northwest Aquatic. At that time Concordia had one of the best smaller school teams in the state and was fairly competitive against big schools like Homestead and Snider. My daughter was a "good" swimmer on that team, swimming the 500 (longest high school distance) and winning a fair number of meets. She came in 5th at sectionals her senior year with the sectional winner posting a 5:01:44. She briefly looked at swimming at the universities she visited, one of which was VU, and in 2002 her best time, in the mid 5:20's, would have put her in the top ten all time in the 500. If you know how grueling swimming can be, it is no wonder that an average high school swimmer does not continue on into college swimming. If we are going to be attractive to more than the "average" swimmer than something needs to be done about facilities, either at the university or within a reasonable distance from school.
This falls into the football category of student/athletes paying full tuition. I have no idea how many swimmers are on scholarship or how many share one scholarship but I suspect that the equivalent ratio is around 10 to 1 or higher/smaller. If you already have the pool and you can get students to pay tuition and come to Valpo for swimming with an equal number of men to women for title IX purposes why would you shut the program down. The great RLH is still whispering in our ears.
Quote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: FWalum on March 04, 2014, 11:29:08 AMMy oldest daughter was a swimmer at Concordia Lutheran High School under then head coach John Gibson. John is a very respected coach and now director of Northwest Aquatic. At that time Concordia had one of the best smaller school teams in the state and was fairly competitive against big schools like Homestead and Snider. My daughter was a "good" swimmer on that team, swimming the 500 (longest high school distance) and winning a fair number of meets. She came in 5th at sectionals her senior year with the sectional winner posting a 5:01:44. She briefly looked at swimming at the universities she visited, one of which was VU, and in 2002 her best time, in the mid 5:20's, would have put her in the top ten all time in the 500. If you know how grueling swimming can be, it is no wonder that an average high school swimmer does not continue on into college swimming. If we are going to be attractive to more than the "average" swimmer than something needs to be done about facilities, either at the university or within a reasonable distance from school.
This falls into the football category of student/athletes paying full tuition. I have no idea how many swimmers are on scholarship or how many share one scholarship but I suspect that the equivalent ratio is around 10 to 1 or higher/smaller. If you already have the pool and you can get students to pay tuition and come to Valpo for swimming with an equal number of men to women for title IX purposes why would you shut the program down. The great RLH is still whispering in our ears.
Well, because the quality of swimmer we are attracting wouldn't be able to swim for other schools in our conference and probably are at Valpo for academics reasons to begin with. I suspect you are right about the scholarship thing--that being that we aren't offering enough to be competitive. I doubt Title 9 comes into play as we would be taking away about the same number of male and female athletes. There are costs associated with sponsoring any program--travel, hotels, coaches etc. If we can't be competitive and facilities certainly aren't going to improve, then perhaps, just perhaps, we should take a look at dropping the program.
I don't think swimming/diving gets more than one or two scholarships for the entire program. I know in 1999-2004, track and cross country were sharing one scholarship for the men's team and one for the women's team. I hope that changes drastically when the new track and fieldhouse are built, as we'll have the facilities, and the same will happen for swimming/diving then too.
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 01:36:37 PMThere are costs associated with sponsoring any program--travel, hotels, coaches etc. If we can't be competitive and facilities certainly aren't going to improve, then perhaps, just perhaps, we should take a look at dropping the program.
My guess would be that 5 to 8 student/swimmers paying full tuition would pay for those expenses or Valpo wouldn't have a swim program now.
Quote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 02:00:48 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 01:36:37 PMThere are costs associated with sponsoring any program--travel, hotels, coaches etc. If we can't be competitive and facilities certainly aren't going to improve, then perhaps, just perhaps, we should take a look at dropping the program.
My guess would be that 5 to 8 student/swimmers paying full tuition would pay for those expenses or Valpo wouldn't have a swim program now.
Yes, but if those students would be at Valpo even if we didn't have a swim team then we would still save funds which could go to improve other sports.
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 02:43:15 PMQuote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 02:00:48 PMQuote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 01:36:37 PMThere are costs associated with sponsoring any program--travel, hotels, coaches etc. If we can't be competitive and facilities certainly aren't going to improve, then perhaps, just perhaps, we should take a look at dropping the program.
My guess would be that 5 to 8 student/swimmers paying full tuition would pay for those expenses or Valpo wouldn't have a swim program now.
Yes, but if those students would be at Valpo even if we didn't have a swim team then we would still save funds which could go to improve other sports.
That's a huge "if" for students who train extremely hard and go through more than a lot of other athletes to give up swimming. I bet you would lose the 5 to 8 who's tuition pays the expenses of the swim teams.
Quote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 02:47:54 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 02:43:15 PMQuote from: historyman on March 04, 2014, 02:00:48 PMQuote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 01:36:37 PMThere are costs associated with sponsoring any program--travel, hotels, coaches etc. If we can't be competitive and facilities certainly aren't going to improve, then perhaps, just perhaps, we should take a look at dropping the program.
My guess would be that 5 to 8 student/swimmers paying full tuition would pay for those expenses or Valpo wouldn't have a swim program now.
Yes, but if those students would be at Valpo even if we didn't have a swim team then we would still save funds which could go to improve other sports.
That's a huge "if" for students who train extremely hard and go through more than a lot of other athletes to give up swimming. I bet you would lose the 5 to 8 who's tuition pays the expenses of the swim teams.
I understand and agree. That is a big unknown. The question is are our swimmers of a caliber to decide to go to another school to swim? In our case, where school records equal a 15th place finish at the conference championships, my guess is the students would have to decide to swim at a smaller, D3 school. Those schools in most cases don't offer the type or quality of an education at Valpo. So, do they switch schools to swim competitively for a few years, or do they decide to focus on their education only? Because of the limited scholarship situation the difference in cost would be minimal.
With the right coach, facilities and a degree from Valpo, the swimming teams could become quite the program. Maybe not nationally, but within the HL and the quality of individual graduating from the program.
Quote from: covufan on March 04, 2014, 04:02:36 PM
With the right coach, facilities and a degree from Valpo, the swimming teams could become quite the program. Maybe not nationally, but within the HL and the quality of individual graduating from the program.
Agreed. But, the fact is that a new swimming facility has to be WAY down the list of athletic priorities. With that in mind, the likelihood of a successful swimming program is uncertain to say the least.
I coached competitive swimming (in another life). All you need is (1) a 25 meter/yard pool, (2) a good coach, and (3) a recruiting budget. You need the kids and the pool. Period.
Valpo is a SUPER target for swimmers (just like T&F and CC). Generally, they are academic atheletes. They are individual competitors who will spend 2-4 hours a day looking at a black line at the bottom of a pool. I've done it. It is boring as hell, but these kids go into another universe, because that is what they do. Whether that pool is in a huge facility or just a basic pool IMO is immaterial when you factor in Valpo's academic reputation. It's the degree and the opportunity to extend HS recognition that is important to these kids. Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting! -------------------------- Recruiting budget is the answer.
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: covufan on March 04, 2014, 04:02:36 PM
With the right coach, facilities and a degree from Valpo, the swimming teams could become quite the program. Maybe not nationally, but within the HL and the quality of individual graduating from the program.
Agreed. But, the fact is that a new swimming facility has to be WAY down the list of athletic priorities. With that in mind, the likelihood of a successful swimming program is uncertain to say the least.
How would there not be a new pool in the new fieldhouse? Every college that I visited prior to attending Valpo had nicer pools than the one in the ARC. Most of these were in newly built fitness/rec center type buildings (similar to Valpo's proposed fieldhouse). Even Bradley, which doesn't even have a NCAA swim team, included an aquatics area (lap pool, hot tub I believe) in their facility they opened within the last 5-7 years
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 04, 2014, 05:29:01 PM
I coached competitive swimming (in another life). All you need is (1) a 25 meter/yard pool, (2) a good coach, and (3) a recruiting budget. You need the kids and the pool. Period.
Valpo is a SUPER target for swimmers (just like T&F and CC). Generally, they are academic atheletes. They are individual competitors who will spend 2-4 hours a day looking at a black line at the bottom of a pool. I've done it. It is boring as hell, but these kids go into another universe, because that is what they do. Whether that pool is in a huge facility or just a basic pool IMO is immaterial when you factor in Valpo's academic reputation. It's the degree and the opportunity to extend HS recognition that is important to these kids. Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting! -------------------------- Recruiting budget is the answer.
OK, I stand corrected on a couple of fronts. We have a 25 meter pool now. My impression (I'm not a swimmer) was that a 25 meter pool was very bush league. Hard to set records with all kinds of turns. Perhaps it is the coaching and recruiting. I was not terribly impressed with the coach when he was interviewed on the athletic coaches show. That is very unfair as I have no idea what his background is or how good a coach he might be.
Second, I must not have a very good idea of what the typical fieldhouse might include. If a new pool is part of it then the facility change might not be as far away as I thought.
Let's all hope that our school records become Horizon League competitive soon!
Quote from: vu72 on March 05, 2014, 07:37:04 AM
We have a 25 meter pool now. My impression (I'm not a swimmer) was that a 25 meter pool was very bush league. Hard to set records with all kinds of turns.
Second, I must not have a very good idea of what the typical fieldhouse might include. If a new pool is part of it then the facility change might not be as far away as I thought.
Let's all hope that our school records become Horizon League competitive soon!
Quote from: mvandersee on March 04, 2014, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: covufan on March 04, 2014, 04:02:36 PM
With the right coach, facilities and a degree from Valpo, the swimming teams could become quite the program. Maybe not nationally, but within the HL and the quality of individual graduating from the program.
Agreed. But, the fact is that a new swimming facility has to be WAY down the list of athletic priorities. With that in mind, the likelihood of a successful swimming program is uncertain to say the least.
How would there not be a new pool in the new fieldhouse? Every college that I visited prior to attending Valpo had nicer pools than the one in the ARC. Most of these were in newly built fitness/rec center type buildings (similar to Valpo's proposed fieldhouse). Even Bradley, which doesn't even have a NCAA swim team, included an aquatics area (lap pool, hot tub I believe) in their facility they opened within the last 5-7 years
Couple of things --
Indoor collegiate swimming is usually conducted in a 25 meter pool because most facilities are set up for 25 meters, but the NCAA also allows for a 50 meter long course. Some great indoor facilities have 50 meter tanks (allows for a separate diving tank and multiple work-out areas) but most competition is over a 25 meter course. This is a link to Oakland's 50 meter pool. Competition is at 25 meters though (movable bulkhead).
http://www.ougrizzlies.com/facilities/ou-aquatic-center.html (http://www.ougrizzlies.com/facilities/ou-aquatic-center.html)
Cleveland State's is even better.
It would be great to include a state-of-the-art aquatics center in a new field house complex. But haven't even seen conceptual drawings yet except for the 30 year plan map which only shows a big building. If an aquatics center goes into the field house, then I suspect that the old pool area will be repurposed as a part of the ARC renovation.
I didn't know this until recently but the biggest issue facing the athletic department is a lack of locker and support facilities inside the ARC. It is
very crowded.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 05, 2014, 09:03:23 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 05, 2014, 07:37:04 AM
We have a 25 meter pool now. My impression (I'm not a swimmer) was that a 25 meter pool was very bush league. Hard to set records with all kinds of turns.
Second, I must not have a very good idea of what the typical fieldhouse might include. If a new pool is part of it then the facility change might not be as far away as I thought.
Let's all hope that our school records become Horizon League competitive soon!
Quote from: mvandersee on March 04, 2014, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2014, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: covufan on March 04, 2014, 04:02:36 PM
With the right coach, facilities and a degree from Valpo, the swimming teams could become quite the program. Maybe not nationally, but within the HL and the quality of individual graduating from the program.
Agreed. But, the fact is that a new swimming facility has to be WAY down the list of athletic priorities. With that in mind, the likelihood of a successful swimming program is uncertain to say the least.
How would there not be a new pool in the new fieldhouse? Every college that I visited prior to attending Valpo had nicer pools than the one in the ARC. Most of these were in newly built fitness/rec center type buildings (similar to Valpo's proposed fieldhouse). Even Bradley, which doesn't even have a NCAA swim team, included an aquatics area (lap pool, hot tub I believe) in their facility they opened within the last 5-7 years
Couple of things --
Indoor collegiate swimming is usually conducted in a 25 meter pool because most facilities are set up for 25 meters, but the NCAA also allows for a 50 meter long course. Some great indoor facilities have 50 meter tanks (allows for a separate diving tank and multiple work-out areas) but most competition is over a 25 meter course. This is a link to Oakland's 50 meter pool. Competition is at 25 meters though (movable bulkhead).
http://www.ougrizzlies.com/facilities/ou-aquatic-center.html (http://www.ougrizzlies.com/facilities/ou-aquatic-center.html)
Cleveland State's is even better.
It would be great to include a state-of-the-art aquatics center in a new field house complex. But haven't even seen conceptual drawings yet except for the 30 year plan map which only shows a big building. If an aquatics center goes into the field house, then I suspect that the old pool area will be repurposed as a part of the ARC renovation.
I didn't know this until recently but the biggest issue facing the athletic department is a lack of locker and support facilities inside the ARC. It is very crowded.
When you think about it, the ARC was finished in 1984, about the same time as full implementation of Title IX. At that time no one understood that women's sports would be required to match men's. So the addition of women's soccer, volleyball, softball etc made for added coaches and the need foe many more locker room and training facilities to name just some of the issues. It has been a "shoehorn" issue ever since.
Quote from: mvandersee on March 04, 2014, 06:06:13 PMHow would there not be a new pool in the new fieldhouse?
Funding! Right now space has been allowed for these facilities on the master plan and that is all. Funding must be secured in order to build these facilities. Look at how the FITT project happened. If funding can not be secured to build the pool inside the new fieldhouse it won't be built. Or space will be saved next to the fieldhouse for a pool but that space will stand empty for many years with the excuse that there was not enough money raised. We will all be reminded every time we see the new fieldhouse that a pool was to be built and for 10 years or more student/swimmers who were promised a new pool by a recruiter will graduate without ever being able to compete in a swim meet in a new Valpo pool.
So unless money is raised everything is just a dream--a good vision--but only a vision of what should be.
Now open up your wallets and let's get those future Valpo swimmers and divers their Valpo pool!!!
Oh, yeah. Let's help finish funding that track for the T&F and CC student/athletes too.
Quote from: vu72 on March 05, 2014, 07:37:04 AMMy impression (I'm not a swimmer) was that a 25 meter pool was very bush league. Hard to set records with all kinds of turns.
Huh? I think if you check the records, they have records for distances in a 25 meter and 50 meter pool. The 25 meter pool time is generally better because of the turns (pushing off the wall vice swimming). I could see having a 25 yard pool vice 25 meters, might be considered inadequat, but certainly not bush league.
Let's hear it for swimming at VU, though, whoever knew this many people cared until this thread?
Quote from: covufan on March 05, 2014, 06:55:31 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 05, 2014, 07:37:04 AMMy impression (I'm not a swimmer) was that a 25 meter pool was very bush league. Hard to set records with all kinds of turns.
Huh? I think if you check the records, they have records for distances in a 25 meter and 50 meter pool. The 25 meter pool time is generally better because of the turns (pushing off the wall vice swimming). I could see having a 25 yard pool vice 25 meters, might be considered inadequat, but certainly not bush league.
Like I said, I'm not a swimmer. My "impression" was obviously wrong. Perhaps I was trying to find an excuse for our teams last place performances.
I still say it comes down to a go-get 'em coach, an increased recruiting budget (and some additional athletic scholarship aid to sweeten the attraction). How is tennis now competitive? Golf is greatly improved. A new track will attract better track athletes (if the coaches can close the deal). It can be done. In swimming it can be as little as getting just 2 or 3 good swimmers who can score in multiple events. So instead of finishing last, it's the middle of the pack for the team. Then success builds on success.
Facilities cost millions. A recruiting budget and athletic scholarship aid is a drop in the bucket by comparison.
Valpo mayor sees more big projects doing for city
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/valparaiso/valpo-mayor-sees-more-big-projects-coming-for-city/article_91697aed-e8d6-5cb5-ad55-9db734e3dac4.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/valparaiso/valpo-mayor-sees-more-big-projects-coming-for-city/article_91697aed-e8d6-5cb5-ad55-9db734e3dac4.html)
Costas said he hasn't ruled out another term. If he does run next year, one issue could be whether to build a community pool. He said he hears a lot of comments about building a pool, possibly in cooperation with Valparaiso University and Valparaiso schools, both of which have pools that are inadequate for major competitions.
"Some people have said they could work together to come up with a natatorium that all could use, and they could build something nicer and more cost effective," he said. "That's intriguing to me. It's an idea with some interest, and it would fit the city well."
This article confirms something I heard from a non-university source a few weeks ago. On the surface it sounds like a wonderful idea. "School" pools are typically very underutilized. By combining resources the 3 entities could build a 1st class shared facility that individually they would have great difficulty justifying.
That is a fantastic idea, and I hope that it happens. I don't believe that there would be any plans for a competitive pool area in the field house, so this makes sense for VU. Much like with Tennis having an indoor court option nearby that has helped recruiting, I believe that this would be a great boost to our poor performing S&D programs.
From a VU standpoint (mainly recruiting and just plain association) it would be best if such a facility be located within a reasonable walk of the main campus -- if not right on its land. The combined resources of community and university could produce a first rate facility that neither could afford themselves. The utilization rates would be consistently high (e.g., VU meets, HS meets, USASwimming meets, HL conference championships [part of a HL rotation?], HS league championships, Indiana regional/state meets, USASwimming championships, community swimming) and the exposure immense. This is also a great way to address something that has been mentioned in other strings -- the separation/disaasociation of VU and the Valparaiso community. If I were VU I'd jump at this opportunity.
I agree that a combined effort for a new pool is desirable. I would think that the recently acquired Porter County Hospital land would be a perfect spot because it's close to downtown and campus (although far from the high school).
The hospital spot is where the field house will be
There is also a spot next to the field house designated for a soccer stadium, but if you look at the plan closely there is a ton of space behind Brown Field, especially once they re-route Laporte Ave which is also part of the plan. That plan has a bunch of softball fields sketched in there. Before the new track construction was announced, I was lobbying MLB to move the Brown Field visitor grand stands in toward the playing surface and building the track outside Brown field in that spot.
With the announcement of Belmont joining the HL in MSO and doing scheduling partnerships in WSO, M&WBB, Baseball and Softball and connecting the recent discussion that the city of Valparaiso and the University "might" collaborate on an aquatics center to benefit both the university and the community, I thought it relevant to show how Belmont and the city of Nashville accomplished something akin.
E.S. ROSE PARK
Belmont University has partnered with Nashville's Metro Board of Parks and Recreation to provide $8 million worth of enhancements to nearby E.S. Rose Park which would also allow the University to lease space for athletics. Rose Park opened for play in April 2011.
With a majestic view of the downtown Nashville skyline, the enhancements at Rose Park provide new resources for the Edgehill community and Belmont student-athletes including accessible walking trails and softball, baseball, track and soccer fields.
In fact, in just its fourth-ever game at Rose Park, Belmont Baseball set an NCAA record with 19 runs in the first inning against UT-Martin. Rose Park also sparked the Bruins' historic run to the Atlantic Sun Championship and a regional finalist showing in the 2011 NCAA Baseball Championships.
The Metro Parks Board will maintain the exclusive authority to schedule the use of the park and will remain the sole owner of the park and its improvements. Utilizing the new sports fields and their accompanying concessions will be neighbors from the Edgehill community, athletic teams from nearby public schools, the youth and adult recreational programs of Metro Parks, neighborhood churches, community groups, nonprofit sports organizations and Belmont University.
The university also agreed to award eight full Belmont scholarships and two partial ones to students in the Edgehill community and help sponsor neighborhood little league baseball and softball teams.
Here's the link to the Belmont facilities page:
http://belmont.prestosports.com/information/facilities/rosepark (http://belmont.prestosports.com/information/facilities/rosepark)
I don't think this is a good idea overall. Such a facility would not be built anywhere close to VU, for starters. It would probably get built along the Highway 49 bypass or some other location remote from the VU campus. The old hospital property was mentioned but that is going to be used for the fieldhouse. Even if the fieldhouse wasn't going to go in that spot, there isn't enough parking to make it work. It is a congested area and I think the city would want it somewhere in a more open area.
Second, this would be a "community" pool with the emphasis on community, not VU. It's gonna get used by kids in the summer, lap swimmers during noon, water aerobics for older folks in the morning, kids' meets and open swimming after school and on weekends, and the Valpo High teams. VU swimmers will be an afterthought on the schedule. We will get whatever is left over.
Third, we are getting started on correcting the (terrible) idea hatched in the early 1970s of moving VU sports to off-campus locales. Why move another sport off-site?
Paul
Paul, you make some good points based on certain assumptions. But I think it would be good for VU under the right circumstances (some of which were mentioned earlier):
In town and very near or on campus. The Porter Hostpital land can more than accommodate the field house, new soccer stadium, as well as a large aquatics center --- and there is a parking structure already in place that can be augmented by more parking on the plot.
A facility large enough to accommodate concurrent events , i.e., at least a 10 lane [eight competition lanes] 50 meter swimming pool with a movable bulkhead and a separate diving tank.
VU has preferential scheduling from September through the first week in March. While many of the community uses you list should be part of a VU/Valpo Community center, many will not interfere with any university athletic competition and VU should go into any such arrangement with a mutual understanding with the city that VU's swimming teams have first dibs. The offseason and summer schedule would shift to fuller community utilization when the university has little or no need. Basically, the community gets 100% of the usage from the 2nd week in March to the beginning of September and a lesser percentage September to March. What we are talking about really is securing a topflight facility for roughly 4 hours per day practice time in season for VU swimmers (plus additional time for meets) in exchange for off hours and off-season community usage.
But, if these three circumstances are not in place, I would have think twice about what you said.
Valparaiso Community Schools will build a new pool on the existing High School site as part of a full renovation of the High School. VCS does not want to bus any swimmers and divers off campus. The city remains interested in the old 3D site just north of campus on Lincolnway as a partnership possibility with VU for a new pool. The problem is, VU got burned big time by a partnership with city heavyweights at the Promenade East complex across from campus. Insider deals, lawsuits, and bad PR that surrounded that development may make VU think long and hard about a partnership on a pool, arena or other facility any time soon.
Quote from: valpo tundra on December 05, 2014, 11:17:46 PMValparaiso Community Schools will build a new pool on the existing High School site as part of a full renovation of the High School.
Maybe. Let's hope the referendum passes and they build a new HS instead.
Quote from: valpo tundra on December 05, 2014, 11:17:46 PM
Valparaiso Community Schools will build a new pool on the existing High School site as part of a full renovation of the High School. VCS does not want to bus any swimmers and divers off campus. The city remains interested in the old 3D site just north of campus on Lincolnway as a partnership possibility with VU for a new pool. The problem is, VU got burned big time by a partnership with city heavyweights at the Promenade East complex across from campus. Insider deals, lawsuits, and bad PR that surrounded that development may make VU think long and hard about a partnership on a pool, arena or other facility any time soon.
In all due respect I think your comments are unfair and misleading. VU has not been "burned" by anybody. There is an investigation being conducted into the development of Promenade East, primarily regarding the bid process by private developers. It has nothing to do with the university. Your term "insider deals" is completely misleading. No wrong doing of any kind has been proven by anyone. What is true is that this is part of a countywide effort (City of Valpo, City of Portage, P.C. Government) by unscrupulous operatives from the political party presently on the outside looking in to regain the power they once had in Porter County. Porter County has never seen this this level of dirty politics in its history. It's Chicago style politics at its worst - dark and destructive. If there's any truth to it, we will know soon enough. If not, the accusers will be held to account by the citizenry.
Congrats to the swim team!
------------
Four More Records Set on Final Day at Calvin Invitational
Saturday, December 06, 2014
The Valparaiso swimming and diving teams concluded action today at the Calvin Winter Invitational in Grand Rapids, Mich, setting four more school records at the Venema Aquatic Center.
Max Penn (Columbus, Ohio/St. Charles Prep) set the school record in the 200 yard backstroke "B" finals, touching the wall in 1:53.56. In the "A" finals, Matt King (Clinton, Ill./Clinton) finished in sixth place in 1:54.62, good for second best all time. The senior improved his personal best by over a second – which was the second fastest time at Valpo – and besting the previous record by .29.
Makenna Cannon (Delafield, Wis./Kettle Moraine) set the school record in the women's 200 yard breaststroke, finishing in 2:22.68 during the prelims, almost three seconds faster than the previous record. In the "A" finals she finished in sixth just .02 behind Emily Trimpe (New Palestine, Ind./New Palestine). Trimpe touched the wall in 53.65 in the women's 100 yard freestyle "B" finals, good for sixth-best all-time at Valpo.
Gonzalo Castro Diaz (Mexico City, Mexico) set the fastest time in Crusader history in the men's 100 yard butterfly, touching the wall in 50.78 and finishing sixth in the men's 100 yard butterfly "A" finals. He also moved up a spot on the 200 yard IM board, finishing the "A" finals in 1:55.22.
Dani Gomez Barrientos (Mexico City, Mexico/Grandview Prep [Fla.]) set the fastest Crusader time all-time in the 200 yard IM with a 2:08.85 in the "A" finals. She also moved up to the third spot in the Valpo record books, touching the wall in 5:07.04 in the women's 500 freestyle "A" finals as she finished third. She improved her personal best by over two seconds from earlier in the season.
The men's 400 yard freestyle relay team of Castro Diaz, Fred Jenny (New Albany, Ohio/New Albany), King and Kyle Braun (McHenry, Ill./West) set the third fastest time in Valpo history with their 3:09.26, claiming fourth place.
The women's 200 yard medley relay team of Flavia Segatto (Pembroke Pines, Fla./Charles W. Flanagan), Cannon, Barrientos and Erin McBride (St. Louis, Mo./Webster Groves) tied the fifth fastest time in school history with their 1:50.57 to finish in seventh place.
The men's relay team of Penn, Jenny, Castro Diaz and Braun set the second fastest time in school history as they touched the wall in 1:34.62 and finished in fourth place.
Segatto would finish just behind Gomez Barrientos in the 500 yard freestyle in fourth place with a time of 5:08.10.
Braun would set the seventh fastest time in Valpo history in the 100 butterfly with his time of 53.12 in the prelims. Later in the 100 yard freestyle prelims, Braun would swim a 46.97 and set the third fastest time in Crusader history. He would finish eighth in the "A" finals with a 48.10.
Jenny moved into fourth place at Valpo in the men's 200 yard breaststroke, as the junior swam a 2:09.86 in the "B" finals.
The men remained in fifth place and finished with 385 points, while the women stayed in sixth place and finished with 332 points.
This marks the last event for Valpo before the new year. The Crusaders return to the pool on Saturday, Jan. 10 when they host Rose-Hulman at the ARC pool. Start time is set for 1:00 pm CT.
Quote from: covufan on December 08, 2014, 02:50:30 PM
Congrats to the swim team!
------------
Four More Records Set on Final Day at Calvin Invitational
Saturday, December 06, 2014
The Valparaiso swimming and diving teams concluded action today at the Calvin Winter Invitational in Grand Rapids, Mich, setting four more school records at the Venema Aquatic Center.
Max Penn (Columbus, Ohio/St. Charles Prep) set the school record in the 200 yard backstroke "B" finals, touching the wall in 1:53.56. In the "A" finals, Matt King (Clinton, Ill./Clinton) finished in sixth place in 1:54.62, good for second best all time. The senior improved his personal best by over a second – which was the second fastest time at Valpo – and besting the previous record by .29.
Makenna Cannon (Delafield, Wis./Kettle Moraine) set the school record in the women's 200 yard breaststroke, finishing in 2:22.68 during the prelims, almost three seconds faster than the previous record. In the "A" finals she finished in sixth just .02 behind Emily Trimpe (New Palestine, Ind./New Palestine). Trimpe touched the wall in 53.65 in the women's 100 yard freestyle "B" finals, good for sixth-best all-time at Valpo.
Gonzalo Castro Diaz (Mexico City, Mexico) set the fastest time in Crusader history in the men's 100 yard butterfly, touching the wall in 50.78 and finishing sixth in the men's 100 yard butterfly "A" finals. He also moved up a spot on the 200 yard IM board, finishing the "A" finals in 1:55.22.
Dani Gomez Barrientos (Mexico City, Mexico/Grandview Prep [Fla.]) set the fastest Crusader time all-time in the 200 yard IM with a 2:08.85 in the "A" finals. She also moved up to the third spot in the Valpo record books, touching the wall in 5:07.04 in the women's 500 freestyle "A" finals as she finished third. She improved her personal best by over two seconds from earlier in the season.
The men's 400 yard freestyle relay team of Castro Diaz, Fred Jenny (New Albany, Ohio/New Albany), King and Kyle Braun (McHenry, Ill./West) set the third fastest time in Valpo history with their 3:09.26, claiming fourth place.
The women's 200 yard medley relay team of Flavia Segatto (Pembroke Pines, Fla./Charles W. Flanagan), Cannon, Barrientos and Erin McBride (St. Louis, Mo./Webster Groves) tied the fifth fastest time in school history with their 1:50.57 to finish in seventh place.
The men's relay team of Penn, Jenny, Castro Diaz and Braun set the second fastest time in school history as they touched the wall in 1:34.62 and finished in fourth place.
Segatto would finish just behind Gomez Barrientos in the 500 yard freestyle in fourth place with a time of 5:08.10.
Braun would set the seventh fastest time in Valpo history in the 100 butterfly with his time of 53.12 in the prelims. Later in the 100 yard freestyle prelims, Braun would swim a 46.97 and set the third fastest time in Crusader history. He would finish eighth in the "A" finals with a 48.10.
Jenny moved into fourth place at Valpo in the men's 200 yard breaststroke, as the junior swam a 2:09.86 in the "B" finals.
The men remained in fifth place and finished with 385 points, while the women stayed in sixth place and finished with 332 points.
This marks the last event for Valpo before the new year. The Crusaders return to the pool on Saturday, Jan. 10 when they host Rose-Hulman at the ARC pool. Start time is set for 1:00 pm CT.
Individually, absolute congratulations. From our University record standpoint, not so good. We were the ONLY D1 program in the field. Max's SCHOOL RECORD was good for a 5Th place finish.
Makenna Cannon's Record was also good for 6Th.
etc, etc., etc., Certainly not demeaning the individual accomplishments. Heck, I'd drown in the first 25 meters. My point is that if we ever hope to be competitive in the Horizon we are going to need swimmers of a different caliber. Swimming is by far our least competitive sport.
Quote from: vu72 on December 08, 2014, 03:14:27 PMIndividually, absolute congratulations. From our University record standpoint, not so good. We were the ONLY D1 program in the field. Max's SCHOOL RECORD was good for a 5Th place finish.Makenna Cannon's Record was also good for 6Th.etc, etc., etc., Certainly not demeaning the individual accomplishments. Heck, I'd drown in the first 25 meters. My point is that if we ever hope to be competitive in the Horizon we are going to need swimmers of a different caliber. Swimming is by far our least competitive sport.
Yes, I kind of got that message as well. I think that VU swimming is on the rise with their talent, as reflected in the setting of 'school' records, possibly from many years ago. Hopefully, we'll get the swimming program into HL Division I competition mode in the next few years.
The good thing is that we are getting swimmers that are capable of breaking VU records first. If we get some type of setup in the future similar to Tennis where we can have a shared site close by, it will increase our recruiting substantially. I have always said that M&W Tennis, T&F/CC, Golf, and W Bowling should be solid programs at a school like Valpo. These athletes are usually more concerned with a quality education if they don't have top talent to go pro, so it puts us at the top of the HL if we have comparable facilities.
How many scholarships do the teams hand out?
Quote from: Vinny on December 09, 2014, 12:00:57 PMHow many scholarships do the teams hand out?
I remember reading a couple of years ago (please correct me if I'm wrong) that NCAA Men's Swimming teams can give out the equivalent* of 10 scholarships and Women's teams can give out the equivalent* of 14.
*The equivalent part meaning that they can be split up, so you could theoretically have 20 guys with half scholarships instead of 10 guys on full rides and the rest paying full tuition
I've enjoyed reading through all these comments albeit 2 years later. At least there has been some interest in the swim program over the years. Having swam from 08-12 I would agree with most of these comments. We beat one Division I team in my 4 years, the facility is absolutely atrocious, we only have 1 scholarship on each side, and The Head Coach: Howard Hunte makes nothing but VU has sponsored his visa since his hiring in 2008. I have been coaching at the DIII level since 2013 and still have yet to see a pool worse than Valpo's. There have talks for years about a new pool from the town etc, but unless its run extremely efficiently( hosting events every weekend) it will lose money each year. The last I heard the site was going to be behind Trails Liquor near the large white abandoned building. Anyway its been a cat and mouse game between VU and the City and nothing has happened. The coach has done well with the resources he has been given. It's just sad really, no one cares enough to make anything happen. I encouraged my sister to go to Valpo and she has done fairly well, and should break a couple school records in 16'-17', her senior year. Like someone said those records will probably only get her 10th or 12th place at Horizon League's.
Look at Oakland, there AD was a former swimmer and they have one of the nicest facilities in the nation. I went there for the first time this past February to watch my sister swim at HL's. She had the highest finish for Valpo on the women's side, 13th I believe. The sport is extremely grueling, and takes a mental toll especially when you have trained so hard during the season to just get dominated at HL's. The addition of Oakland made the HL much more competitive, but also hurt Valpo in terms of placing people in finals which is the whole point of the meet. LeBarbera, and the Valpo Community have to come together to get a new pool in the works. Its obviously all about money, if someone donates 10+ million(more like 20) then it will be built, otherwise no one cares enough.
Also, there is a local club team(Mako Swim Club) with kids from around the community that train at the VU pool. One of them Anya Goeders is a nationally ranked swimmer and most recently finished 9th at the Olympic Swim Trials. She is an unbelievable talent, and baring injury will go to swim at one of the top 5 swim universities in the nation( class of 2018 I believe from Lowell). She will be one of the best athletes to come out NWI in a long time( her times in practice are faster than VU records and her meet times would win horizon league's no problem, she is 15 or 16) and if Valpo had scholarship and facilities they may be able to land her(The brother of the VU swim coach is her coach) The club team also has several other swimmers who could swim at Valpo , but will probably choose somewhere else.
The current Asst. Coach did a solid job recruiting this past year but even so competing at HL's will be a tall order for the upcoming season, but as always I'll be there to support them. I haven't missed a HL championship meet since coming to Valpo in 2008, The ones I haven't swam at I have been there to support the team and my sister. Looking forward to seeing results from this season!!
Just like Tennis, Golf, and T&F/CC, Valpo would be able to attract top mid-major talent if we had a decent swimming/diving facility. These sports usually attract smart kids, so we would have a chance at solid recruits with our academic reputation.
Quote from: VUSWIM08-12 on August 16, 2016, 03:16:42 PM
..... the facility is absolutely atrocious, we only have 1 scholarship on each side, and The Head Coach: Howard Hunte makes nothing but VU has sponsored his visa since his hiring in 2008. I have been coaching at the DIII level since 2013 and still have yet to see a pool worse than Valpo's.
Actually, despite the poor facility, a 25 yard pool is a 25 yard pool. It's a harder sell, of course, than a glamorous 25 meter facility with a movable barrier that creates a separate diving tank, etc.. But, short of building a multi-million $ Aquatics Center, the university could just invest in (1) a bigger recruiting/support budget for swimming and (2) more D-I athletic scholarships that could compensate, to a degree, for the facility handicap. As pointed out below, swimmers are a unique bunch. They spend hours looking at a black line at the bottom of a pool most of their young lives. They are usually above average in intelligence and internally highly motivated in both the classroom and the pool and will take a win whether it's in a palatial pool or a simple one like Valpo's. Granted when given a choice, a facility and obvious program $upport will attract over the lack of same -- but getting a full or partial ride can offset some of that. In the short run Valpo could build a very competitive swimming program with out first building a new aquatics center. In the long run, a few years of competitive success might generate sufficient backing to get to the next level with the addition of a new pool.
BTW, a year or so ago we chatted here about a VU/Community joint initiative to build such a facility. In that discussion I recall a point made by someone about some dropped balls when it came to the university and the community finding more ways to cooperate. This type of initiative -- an aquatics center located on the VU campus within a walk of downtown could be a great bridge between town and gown and with reasonable scheduling could accommodate VU, the Valparaiso Schools, a locally-based swim club, and the Valpo community as a whole.
Yes the pool is 25 yards and it does serve its purpose, however, there are several things wrong with it. For one the air quality is terrible, the filters were built in the walls and now there is no way to replace them without major renovations. Each year, come January and February, several of our team members would develop a cough that would only get worse with each consecutive practice. It doesn't happen after being there a few days, but after months of training it was 100% noticeable. Two: the blocks are very slick and aren't stable. Three: the lanes are too narrow, very hard to train butterfly with multiple people in the lane. Four: The diving boards are unsafe; we haven't had a diving portion of the team since 08-09 which takes away from point totals at HL's. For Rec purposes the pool is fine, but to house a D I team not even close!
Yes, more scholarships would help obviously. The school did buy new touchpads and display board for 25k+ which helped, and the parents of a 2016 alum(who are alums themselves) helped pay for locker room renovations, but too really see a change a new pool has to be built. I chose Valpo because I wanted to swim and, at the time, I also wanted to study meteorology. I ended up paying my deposit without even visiting campus which in hindsight was a foolish decision, but I would not have it any other way. Hoping to make it back for homecoming this year, and support VU in any way I can!
Thanks for the elaboration on the other conditions of which I was unaware . I find the ventilation system deficiency to be the most problematic -- that's a health and safety issue. I also suspect that the gutter system is less than up to current speed standards. But some of those things, like the diving boards and blocks and even perhaps the HVAC system, still might be correctable with an infusion of maintenance funds -- not millions for a new pool (at this point). I guess my argument comes down to: first upgrade and provide positive support for what we have, build on it, and expand athletic scholarships to bring us up to a higher competitive standard, then go for the bigger step. Regardless, both of us want to see greater investment by the university in this program.
Any possibility that a new pool could be part of the Fieldhouse facility when it is built?
Good question. The graphics that were released didn't seem to suggest that type of footprint but maybe.... that's the problem with the theoretical -- not enough detail. I don't recall a statement like a field house with an adjoining (or including) aquatic center or some such.
Thanks for the info VUSWIM. Even ignoring the fact that the team apparently puts itself behind the 8 ball by not competing in the diving portion of competitions (???), I find it disgraceful that the school would allow its students to get sick because it can't properly construct a facility. First and foremost, it's poor ethics. Secondly, that's bad business! Why would the university subject itself to potential legal trouble, especially in a branch of its business that it obviously doesn't care about? No offense with that last sentence VUSWIM, I am just stating what appears to be obvious.
Don't hold your breath for a new pool or a new field house. Money is extremely tight and fundraising is going toward the endowment. As someone said previously, unless a donor or donors hand over a huge amount of money specifically for a pool and a field house, it's just not gonna happen. The ARC itself is stuck where it is unless a donor steps forward for that too. Athletics, and athletic facilities are just not a priority.
Quote from: valpogal on August 28, 2016, 11:31:22 AMAthletics, and athletic facilities are just not a priority.
Where have we heard this from the Valpo administration before?
As far as Valpo new athletic facilities are not going to happen just because they appear on a master plan that gets changed every so many years. It takes money and
the VU administration doesn't see athletics as that high of a priority. Nothing has changed much over the years.
I would have to think that the field house will happen, considering we bought that hospital land for that purpose, and Heckler mentions it every time he comes down to TX to meet alums...
Quote from: valpotx on August 29, 2016, 01:12:31 AM
I would have to think that the field house will happen, considering we bought that hospital land for that purpose, and Heckler mentions it every time he comes down to TX to meet alums...
Because it's in a master plan and the president mentions it often? We are extremely gullible alumni sometimes. That hospital land would make a great spot for some new academic buildings also. Especially since it looks like the parking garage is structurally unsafe and will have to be torn down.
Quote from: bbtds on August 29, 2016, 12:00:20 PMlooks like the parking garage is structurally unsafe and will have to be torn down.
Is that new information? Don't know that I have heard that from any other source...
Quote from: FWalum on August 30, 2016, 08:20:17 AM
Quote from: bbtds on August 29, 2016, 12:00:20 PMlooks like the parking garage is structurally unsafe and will have to be torn down.
Is that new information? Don't know that I have heard that from any other source...
I have heard the same information. Parking garage is a mess.
Quote from: FWalum on August 30, 2016, 08:20:17 AM
Quote from: bbtds on August 29, 2016, 12:00:20 PMlooks like the parking garage is structurally unsafe and will have to be torn down.
Is that new information? Don't know that I have heard that from any other source...
My Valpo connection said he read it in the newspaper. Not sure which one.
I also would like to hear the source of the parking garage information. I'm not saying I don't believe it, but it comes as a surprise since the parking garage in question was used last year. As for the fieldhouse/hospital land/master plan issue, most master plans are often better described as visions and always are subject to change. That having been said, I think the plan continues to be to build a multi-purpose field house on that property, perhaps with some IM or practice fields adjacent. It would be wonderful if that includes a pool, but perhaps the best option for a pool/aquatic center is to partner with the city, build something on the vacant area on the north side of Lincolnway, perhaps even finance some of it with city bonds that wouldn't negatively impact the university's debt ratio. Hopefully smarter people than I are exploring such options.
Quote from: sliman on August 31, 2016, 10:02:10 PM
I also would like to hear the source of the parking garage information. I'm not saying I don't believe it, but it comes as a surprise since the parking garage in question was used last year. As for the fieldhouse/hospital land/master plan issue, most master plans are often better described as visions and always are subject to change. That having been said, I think the plan continues to be to build a multi-purpose field house on that property, perhaps with some IM or practice fields adjacent. It would be wonderful if that includes a pool, but perhaps the best option for a pool/aquatic center is to partner with the city, build something on the vacant area on the north side of Lincolnway, perhaps even finance some of it with city bonds that wouldn't negatively impact the university's debt ratio. Hopefully smarter people than I are exploring such options.
Source: A close family member who works in the "physical plant" department.
Just wanted to congratulate Max Penn was setting a new school record in the 200 back at 1:50.61!! Good for 11th place in the Horizon League Championships! ???
Our swim teams finished in VERY last place, not even close to the next worst team. :'(
Quote from: vu72 on February 26, 2017, 08:20:32 AM
Just wanted to congratulate Max Penn was setting a new school record in the 200 back at 1:50.61!! Good for 11th place in the Horizon League Championships! ???
Our swim teams finished in VERY last place, not even close to the next worst team. :'(
Here are the results:
Final Team Scores:
Women's Final Scores:
1. Oakland 842.5
2. Milwaukee 626.5
3. UIC 417
4. Green Bay 401
5. Cleveland State 382
6. Youngstown State 361
7. Wright State 358
8. Valparaiso 95
Men's Final Scores:1. Oakland 839.5 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25m pool with seating for 1000; opened 1998)
2. Cleveland State 663 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25yd pool with seating for 1500; opened 1973)
3. UIC 522 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25m pool; opened 1982; site of 2017 HL championships)
4. Wright State 423.5 (25 m competition pool with ajoining diving tank and warm up tank)
5. Green Bay 391 (96' 8 lane pool )
6. Milwaukee 384 (25 m 8 lane pool; opened 1977)
7. Valparaiso 148 (25 yd 6 lane pool; opened 1962)
Order of finish for men and somewhat similar finish for women looks to be directly proportional to the type of facility each team calls home.
I'm sorry but our University needs to give our Swim Team the resources to succeed.
The facility is a black eye on the athletics department. If we want to potentially get an invite into a "better" conference that will make the athletics department more revenue then we need to upgrade this facility.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 26, 2017, 10:20:02 AMMen's Final Scores: 1. Oakland 839.5 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25m pool with seating for 1000; opened 1998) 2. Cleveland State 663 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25yd pool with seating for 1500; opened 1973) 3. UIC 522 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25m pool; opened 1982; site of 2017 HL championships) 4. Wright State 423.5 (25 m competition pool with ajoining diving tank and warm up tank) 5. Green Bay 391 (96' 8 lane pool ) 6. Milwaukee 384 (25 m 8 lane pool; opened 1977) 7. Valparaiso 148 (25 yd 6 lane pool; opened 1962) Order of finish for men and somewhat similar finish for women looks to be directly proportional to the type of facility each team calls home.
An item of continued humiliation. Not just the results, but the fact that Valpo has a bathtub to train in while the majority of the league swims in a real pool. How does the program retain student-athletes??
Cripe, how in the world can you even have a swim team with such crappy facilities? They were bad back in the 80's! This is embarrassing. Is Valpo really that strapped for cash?
Quote from: Vinny on February 27, 2017, 09:07:46 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 26, 2017, 10:20:02 AMMen's Final Scores: 1. Oakland 839.5 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25m pool with seating for 1000; opened 1998) 2. Cleveland State 663 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25yd pool with seating for 1500; opened 1973) 3. UIC 522 (Natatorium has a 50m x 25m pool; opened 1982; site of 2017 HL championships) 4. Wright State 423.5 (25 m competition pool with ajoining diving tank and warm up tank) 5. Green Bay 391 (96' 8 lane pool ) 6. Milwaukee 384 (25 m 8 lane pool; opened 1977) 7. Valparaiso 148 (25 yd 6 lane pool; opened 1962) Order of finish for men and somewhat similar finish for women looks to be directly proportional to the type of facility each team calls home.
An item of continued humiliation. Not just the results, but the fact that Valpo has a bathtub to train in while the majority of the league swims in a real pool. How does the program retain student-athletes??
We retain them, because they would not make a D-1 roster at other schools. Just look at the results, and you can tell that these kids would most likely be swimming/diving at a lower level, if it weren't for our crappy S&D program. If we upgraded our pool, we would get better recruits, and the current student-athletes would not be able to make the roster. It is a tough truth, but a truth nonetheless.
Wright State is dropping swimming. Valpo men's swimming is looking for a new home, but would this change the Horizon leagues mind on not allowing Men's swimming to remain in the Conference. Makes sense for both parties.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/865581929386487809
Nah. It makes too much sense. The HL let Belmont in as an affilliate in MSO. Why not Valpo MS&D?
We, as a team, don't do that well in the HL, but at least some of our swimmers can compete for individual honors. We would get killed in the MAC in all respects.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 19, 2017, 10:42:40 AM
Nah. It makes too much sense. The HL let Belmont in as an affilliate in MSO. Why not Valpo MS&D?
We, as a team, don't do that well in the HL, but at least some of our swimmers can compete for individual honors. We would get killed in the MAC in all respects.
Perhaps. Clearly swimming is far and away our weakest sport. As pointed out earlier in this thread. One of our swimmers set a new school record and that got him an 11th place finish in the Horizon League swim meet.
Are the swimming teams making any progress or are they just "treading water?"
(https://i.giphy.com/JvxfUKlFPFmDK.webp)
In a previous life I coached a public HS team for 4 years. We went from last place in our league to NY State Sectional Champs. How? For four years I had basically the same kids. None were AAU or travel team stars. We had a basic 6 lane pool. Nothing great. After year one, I asked the kids to come to school at 6 am for 2000 yards of base endurance practice. They all showed up. Then we practiced in the afternoon doing the fine tuning of strokes and technique as well as getting in another 2000 -2500 yards. I am still in contact with these guys to this day. They loved the discipline and the demands cuz they saw how it made a difference.
Good swimmers can be great swimmers providing the commitment and demands are there. I get the feeling that our VU kids are not being pushed enough.
There are few people here who can even grasp what a swimmer does. Imagine looking at a black line at the bottom of a pool for 2 hours while pacing your breathing over that 2 hours every day.
Valpo can be competitive despite a crappy pool. Our coach has to just make greater demands. He might lose hangers-on but the teams (both male and female) would get better. The problem I think I see is that there is no pressure to do that.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 19, 2017, 10:06:20 AM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/865581929386487809
They dropped BOTH men's and women's programs. Too bad. But in the grand scheme of things at a largely commuter school with 12,700 enrolled, cutting expenses for 38 swimmers is inconsequential (but, of course, devastating to the kids and coaches).
Here is the WSU Facilities capsule on their natatorium.
http://www.wsuraiders.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=27000&ATCLID=205160542
Impressive place. 6 wide lanes, separate but contiguous dive tank and warmup tank, and
spectator seating(!). A shame that such an investment will no longer be used as intended. Not to contradict my previous post, but if Valpo had that facility, I'd bet we would attract some really good swimmers due to the quality of education we offer and our campus culture, both of which appeal to swimmers and divers.
[click to enlarge]
Swimming has 2 scholarships-one for the men, one for the women.
Quote from: valpogal on May 28, 2017, 06:56:12 PM
Swimming has 2 scholarships-one for the men, one for the women.
I dont think that a full ride or a divided full ride is that important to good swimmers who are also good students (and most swimmers are). There are a ton of D-III swimmmers who could blow the doors off many of our kids. The thing is that we offer a helluva education and a great campus culture to these kids. But if you are gonna have to foot the bills anyway, you might as well go to a D-III school whose pool is top notch. The prestige of swimming D-I is a consideration, no doubt, but (1) if you are not Michael Phelps and (2) you're paying your own way pretty much, why not comptete for a D-III championsip while training in a good facility at a highly rated liberal arts college rather than be part of a program that finds itself always near the bottom of whaever conference they are in.
https://twitter.com/ValpoU/status/874342201630830592
https://twitter.com/thesummitleague/status/874340960787943426
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/874343218237853697
I c
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 21, 2017, 02:38:00 PMQuote from: VU2014 on May 19, 2017, 10:06:20 AMhttps://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/865581929386487809
They dropped BOTH men's and women's programs. Too bad. But in the grand scheme of things at a largely commuter school with 12,700 enrolled, cutting expenses for 38 swimmers is inconsequential (but, of course, devastating to the kids and coaches). Here is the WSU Facilities capsule on their natatorium. http://www.wsuraiders.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=27000&ATCLID=205160542 Impressive place. 6 wide lanes, separate but contiguous dive tank and warmup tank, and spectator seating(!). A shame that such an investment will no longer be used as intended. Not to contradict my previous post, but if Valpo had that facility, I'd bet we would attract some really good swimmers due to the quality of education we offer and our campus culture, both of which appeal to swimmers and divers. [click to enlarge]
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 19, 2017, 09:50:57 PMIn a previous life I coached a public HS team for 4 years. We went from last place in our league to NY State Sectional Champs. How? For four years I had basically the same kids. None were AAU or travel team stars. We had a basic 6 lane pool. Nothing great. After year one, I asked the kids to come to school at 6 am for 2000 yards of base endurance practice. They all showed up. Then we practiced in the afternoon doing the fine tuning of strokes and technique as well as getting in another 2000 -2500 yards. I am still in contact with these guys to this day. They loved the discipline and the demands cuz they saw how it made a difference. Good swimmers can be great swimmers providing the commitment and demands are there. I get the feeling that our VU kids are not being pushed enough. There are few people here who can even grasp what a swimmer does. Imagine looking at a black line at the bottom of a pool for 2 hours while pacing your breathing over that 2 hours every day. Valpo can be competitive despite a crappy pool. Our coach has to just make greater demands. He might lose hangers-on but the teams (both male and female) would get better. The problem I think I see is that there is no pressure to do that.
I can assure you its not the effort put in during the season.( The off season is a different story, I personally didn't do what I should have from April to August and a lot of Valpo swimmers are the same). Our practices were comparable to the other HL programs. The pool really holds Valpo back in recruiting. I didn't come to Valpo for a visit before I committed, and had I I may have tried to walk on at Purdue or I would have would have went to Ball State. However I did encourage my sister to go to Valpo and she just graduated from 4 years of swimming. Apparently they are hiring the current grad assistant as a full time coach because the the MVC and Summit League meets are on the same weekend which is a nightmare. Anything helps but a new pool or scholarships would really jump up the quality of swimmers Valpo could attract. There are several DIII programs better than Valpo but they all have nicer facilities. I coached at the DIII level for 4 seasons and have yet to see a pool worse than Valpo's. It's a combination of several things that holds back the swim program.
ALSO WSU crowdfunded and saved their swim program for at least this coming season. http://www.wsuraiders.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=92405&SPSID=630789
I am glad to hear that WSU crowdfunded their swimming program. It always hurts me to see sports cut due to budget shortfalls in other areas.
You mention scholarships. There is no way in the near future that a new pool appears as if by magic. BUT.... a much easier and (in the short-term) cheaper way to instantly upgrade the program, despite the poor facility, is to go NCAA max on swimming scholarships. It might not turn Valpo into a swimming power, but I'm sure we would kick it up a notch or two and be much more competitive in the MVC than we were even in the HL.