The Princeton Review Best 379 Colleges is now out. I am guessing VU is not on the list. We were not on the list last year either, after having made the list for several consecutive years.
The US News college rankings will be out in a few weeks. I'm holding my breath to see where we end up. Last year it was #6. Before that we were tied for 4th. Not long ago we were #3 or #2. Before that we were #1 at least twice.
Enrollment is up. Endowment is up. Average ACT scores for incoming freshmen are up. There are new buildings everywhere on campus. Why the drop? Why no longer on the Princeton list? No one from VU has ever addressed this. If recent history is any indication, we will drop even further than last year's #6 ranking. Of the schools that were #1 or #2 at the same time VU was that high, no one has dropped as far as we have. For instance, when we were #1 in our region, Villanova was #1 in its region. Villanova last year was still ranked very high; not the case for VU. What is going on?
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on August 28, 2014, 04:31:28 PM
The Princeton Review Best 379 Colleges is now out. I am guessing VU is not on the list. We were not on the list last year either, after having made the list for several consecutive years.
The US News college rankings will be out in a few weeks. I'm holding my breath to see where we end up. Last year it was #6. Before that we were tied for 4th. Not long ago we were #3 or #2. Before that we were #1 at least twice.
Enrollment is up. Endowment is up. Average ACT scores for incoming freshmen are up. There are new buildings everywhere on campus. Why the drop? Why no longer on the Princeton list? No one from VU has ever addressed this. If recent history is any indication, we will drop even further than last year's #6 ranking. Of the schools that were #1 or #2 at the same time VU was that high, no one has dropped as far as we have. For instance, when we were #1 in our region, Villanova was #1 in its region. Villanova last year was still ranked very high; not the case for VU. What is going on?
Paul
I agree with your concerns, but, we have moved up in the Washington Monthly rankings, moving to number 3 nationally, not regionally.
http://www.valpo.edu/news/2014/08/25/valparaiso-university-moves-to-third-in-the-nation-for-contribution-to-public-good/ (http://www.valpo.edu/news/2014/08/25/valparaiso-university-moves-to-third-in-the-nation-for-contribution-to-public-good/)
And don't forget about Forbes:
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/forbes-ranks-valparaiso-university-among-top/article_f141af0a-4a83-5707-b814-d0b78c2f86ad.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/forbes-ranks-valparaiso-university-among-top/article_f141af0a-4a83-5707-b814-d0b78c2f86ad.html)
Valpo has again tied with Xavier for 5th. place in the MW Regional category. Butler a solid #2. What gives?
Valpo ranks number 5 this year in US News & World Report. Tied for 1st for Up-and-Coming.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-midwest (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-midwest)
Well at least we haved leveled off. I checked a couple of interesting figures. I compared Valpo with Butler and Drake. One startling figure is that Butler is now at only 39% males students while Drake is at 44% and Valpo is at 48%. The other thing is that our endowment continues to be bigger than these schools. Valpo is at $177,976,000 while Butler is at $171,576,000 and Drake at $168,619,000. This advantage should only increase as our next fund drive will focus on endowment.
In a different ranking (CollegeFactual) just released, Valpo come in at #248 out of 1394 rated US colleges for 4 year undergraduate programs. We came in #39 out of 224 rated schools in the Great Lakes Region.
http://college.usatoday.com/2014/09/08/upenn-named-best-college-nationwide-for-2015/ (http://college.usatoday.com/2014/09/08/upenn-named-best-college-nationwide-for-2015/)
Some Valpo specific ratings:
ACT scores of incoming freshmen = 85%
Amount spent per student = 72%
Faculty compensation = 41%
Student/Faculty ratio = 73%
Freshmen retention = 85%
6 year graduation rate = 85%
Starting salary = 66%
Mid career salary = 72%
Some familiar Great Lakes region friends:
ND #1 - (#10 overall)
Marquette #20
Bradley #21
Dayton #25
Butler #27
Loyola #37
Valpo #39 - (#248 overall)
UIC #49
Detroit Mercy #66
Evansville #76
UWM #166
Oakland #169
UWGB #170
Wright State #184
Cleveland State #193
YSU #212
Chicago State #215 - (#1332 overall)
Maybe we should combine these two strings????
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 09, 2014, 03:23:08 PM
Maybe we should combine these two strings????
I think we're just waiting for one of the two to devolve into a facilities discussion like always
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on September 09, 2014, 06:30:43 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 09, 2014, 03:23:08 PM
Maybe we should combine these two strings????
I think we're just waiting for one of the two to devolve into a facilities discussion like always
Speaking of facilities, do you think there will ever be a formal plan laid out to finally renovate the ARC? Or are they just giving us a lot of lip service? It'll be a real full moon on Popcorn Festival Day before we ever see these asses do anything.
That should take care of it.
At least we are well above Evansville, since they consider themselves our peers in academics
Let's get back to that #1 rating we had while I attended!
Let's face it. The rankings have not been kind to VU during the past 5-6 years. Perhaps the most disappointing ranking, to me anyway, was the College Factual rankings. We ranked 11th...out of 32 colleges and universities in Indiana. Here is the Top 10: (1) ND (2) DePauw (3) Rose-Hulman (4) Saint Mary's (5) Purdue (6) Butler (7) Earlham (8) Wabash (9) IU (10) Goshen (yes, we rank below Goshen). Saint Joseph's, by the way, ranks 30th.
I just don't understand the drop in the rankings. Something is amiss and I'm not sure what it is.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on September 10, 2014, 01:52:51 PM
Let's face it. The rankings have not been kind to VU during the past 5-6 years. Perhaps the most disappointing ranking, to me anyway, was the College Factual rankings. We ranked 11th...out of 32 colleges and universities in Indiana. Here is the Top 10: (1) ND (2) DePauw (3) Rose-Hulman (4) Saint Mary's (5) Purdue (6) Butler (7) Earlham (8) Wabash (9) IU (10) Goshen (yes, we rank below Goshen). Saint Joseph's, by the way, ranks 30th.
I just don't understand the drop in the rankings. Something is amiss and I'm not sure what it is.
Paul
I guess I'm not at all concerned. We know the average GPA and SAT scores have improved over this time, enrollment is on the rise and new buildings are very evident. USNews say we rank #2 in the Midwest in teaching. What is most important? As for the "Factual" rankings there could be several reasons why we are ranked lower than some. Faculty salaries for one. This is why the endowment and endowed chairs are high on our to do list. Student starting salaries? Could it be that a larger than normal group of our graduates are choosing church or other vocations with typically lower pay levels? Who knows. I just don't want to lose any sleep over such things. Rest assured, in the real world, Valpo's name recognition is just slightly higher than Goshen's! ;)
Faculty salaries are low, that is for sure. I recall Dr. Allen Tuttle (one of the GREAT professors VU has ever had -- I think a building should be named after him, I'm serious) telling me in 1975 that at some point in the 1960s the national accreditation group came to VU and basically demanded a damn good explanation for why faculty salaries were so low -- they were threatening all sorts of things, from probation to actually denying re-accreditation for VU, which of course is the nuclear bomb that all colleges fear. Fortunately, according to Dr. Tuttle, President Kretzmann was called in for a charm offensive and, of course, he was able to sweet talk the accreditation group into overlooking the low salaries.
Maybe the answer to the lower rankings is simple: the first ever US News rankings were based on only one thing: academic reputation, which is maybe VU's greatest strength. Later, when other items were added, such as faculty salaries and alumni support, we lost a bit of ground to our peers.
Paul
While teaching, nursing, pastor-ing are great careers with decent pay, I'm not sure it moves the needle in terms of endowment. Not really as much room to move up in those careers. Building up engineering and pairing majors with business (business intelligence and sciences) would be great for spitting out high paying careers. Not holding anything against certain career choices, but Valpo should invest a bit more in sciences, like, I don't know, Computer Science to name a random major instead of treating it like a random supplement major that it's forced to include.
Quote from: a3uge on September 10, 2014, 04:42:14 PM
While teaching, nursing, pastor-ing are great careers with decent pay, I'm not sure it moves the needle in terms of endowment. Not really as much room to move up in those careers. Building up engineering and pairing majors with business (business intelligence and sciences) would be great for spitting out high paying careers. Not holding anything against certain career choices, but Valpo should invest a bit more in sciences, like, I don't know, Computer Science to name a random major instead of treating it like a random supplement major that it's forced to include.
Found this article today, somewhat topical: Where to go to college if you want the highest starting salary (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/11/where-to-go-to-college-if-you-want-the-highest-starting-salary/)
Quote from: valpo04 on September 11, 2014, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: a3uge on September 10, 2014, 04:42:14 PM
While teaching, nursing, pastor-ing are great careers with decent pay, I'm not sure it moves the needle in terms of endowment. Not really as much room to move up in those careers. Building up engineering and pairing majors with business (business intelligence and sciences) would be great for spitting out high paying careers. Not holding anything against certain career choices, but Valpo should invest a bit more in sciences, like, I don't know, Computer Science to name a random major instead of treating it like a random supplement major that it's forced to include.
Found this article today, somewhat topical: Where to go to college if you want the highest starting salary (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/11/where-to-go-to-college-if-you-want-the-highest-starting-salary/)
Sounds like "The Big Bang Theory" kind of people actually win out here. CalTech is actually mentioned in the top 5.
Quote from: valpo04 on September 11, 2014, 10:22:09 AM
Quote from: a3uge on September 10, 2014, 04:42:14 PM
While teaching, nursing, pastor-ing are great careers with decent pay, I'm not sure it moves the needle in terms of endowment. Not really as much room to move up in those careers. Building up engineering and pairing majors with business (business intelligence and sciences) would be great for spitting out high paying careers. Not holding anything against certain career choices, but Valpo should invest a bit more in sciences, like, I don't know, Computer Science to name a random major instead of treating it like a random supplement major that it's forced to include.
Found this article today, somewhat topical: Where to go to college if you want the highest starting salary (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/11/where-to-go-to-college-if-you-want-the-highest-starting-salary/)
Ok, decided to look up schools in Indiana... low and behold my old employer Indiana Tech shows up as
#5 in the state, just behind Rose-Hulman, Notre Dame and Purdue! ARE YOU KIDDING ME :crazy: Somebody has got to be cooking the books. At least we are #7 IU is #9 Evansville #13 Butler #19 Ball State #23
This should make some of you happier than perhaps the US News rankings.
College Choice magazine, under presumably similar ranking criteria, has Valpo ranked number 2 in the Midwest, among masters level institutions.
From the top 50, here are the rankings ofsome schools of interest:
1. Creighton (same as US News)
2. Valpo
4. Bradley
5. Butler
6. Xavier (tied at 5 with Valpo in US News)
7. Drake
8. Evansville
14. Detroit
29. Indiana Wesleyan
Here are the full Midwest rankings:
http://www.collegechoice.net/rankings/regional-universities-midwest/ (http://www.collegechoice.net/rankings/regional-universities-midwest/)
Would love to see the Academic Reputation score up in the 90's, otherwise it's great to see us in the top 2!
College Choice could have chosen a much better picture of our school.... but still a great ranking! :thumbsup:
Quote from: okinawatyphoon on September 17, 2014, 06:18:07 PM
College Choice could have chosen a much better picture of our school.... but still a great ranking! :thumbsup:
Agree........... the chapel wudda been better, but then how about all the other great looking buildings.
That brings up a great question. If there was one photo shot that would communicate to the entire freakin' world what Valpo is, what would that shot be?
I don't think one would suffice. Thoughts?
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 17, 2014, 10:04:19 PM
Quote from: okinawatyphoon on September 17, 2014, 06:18:07 PM
College Choice could have chosen a much better picture of our school.... but still a great ranking! :thumbsup:
Agree........... the chapel wudda been better, but then how about all the other great looking buildings.
That brings up a great question. If there was one photo shot that would communicate to the entire freakin' world what Valpo is, what would that shot be?
I don't think one would suffice. Thoughts?
I can't really think of any building other than the Chapel. It has to be one one of the most iconic structures in Indiana, let alone all of secondary education. The rather "modern" style" of most of the campus does not lend itself to "classic"college photos. My second choice would be Guild Memorial. I've emailed Mark before about ESPN using a picture of Valparaiso city hall in their broadcasts rather then a picture of the Chapel. I said it was akin to showing a picture of South Bend City Hall during Notre Dame broadcasts rather than the Golden Dome!
Good point.
Years back before the city spread it's borders, you could be driving down to Valpo and the chapel would define your view Dramatic. That's not as possible now coming in from the north (Like two weeks ago). But once you get near the campus, it is still impressive. That was built under OP Kretzman's watch I believe, yes?
Actually, I looked it up. It was dedicated in 1959 and that was in the OP era. BTW Duke is contesting that it it is the 2nd largest college chapel in the world. PfssssT!
Here's some more info on how US News ranks colleges:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/how-us-news-ranks-colleges,33959/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/how-us-news-ranks-colleges,33959/)
I particularly enjoyed Step #8.
Quote from: FWalum on September 17, 2014, 01:21:27 PM
Would love to see the Academic Reputation score up in the 90's, otherwise it's great to see us in the top 2!
[/b]
Not sure how this is determined, but I checked some other schools and found the following Academic Reputations:
Purdue 57
Wake Forest 76
Notre Dame 83
Vanderbilt 84
Cornell 85
Northwestern 89
Makes our 86 look pretty solid! ;D
I think they do these academic ratings based on your peer group. Butler scored a 96 (which is really impressive). That doesn't mean Butler is ahead of, say, Notre Dame, which scored an 83. ND is in a different peer group -- Cal, Harvard, Univ of Chicago, etc. VU is in the midwest regional college peer group.
Our score of 86 is good, darn good, but could be and should be higher.
Paul
Quote from: bbtds on September 18, 2014, 07:00:57 AM
Here's some more info on how US News ranks colleges:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/how-us-news-ranks-colleges,33959/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/how-us-news-ranks-colleges,33959/)
I particularly enjoyed Step #8.
Gotta love the Onion :lol:
Business Insider has ranked the "600 Smartest Colleges in America," and Valpo comes in at 221: http://www.businessinsider.com/smartest-colleges-in-america-2014-10 (http://www.businessinsider.com/smartest-colleges-in-america-2014-10)
Quote from: valpopal on October 22, 2014, 10:32:00 AM
Business Insider has ranked the "600 Smartest Colleges in America," and Valpo comes in at 221: http://www.businessinsider.com/smartest-colleges-in-america-2014-10 (http://www.businessinsider.com/smartest-colleges-in-america-2014-10)
I know our Valpo grads always like to look at who's ranked higher by whatever measure (the negative perspective). Here's the way I would look at things, if I were you:
Higher education, also referred to as post-secondary education, third stage, third level, or tertiary education occurs most commonly at one of the 4,599 title IV degree-granting institutions, either colleges or universities in the country.[1] These may be public universities, private universities, liberal arts colleges, or community colleges....which places Valpo at the 95th percentile or top 5%, had they bothered to rank the other 3999 schools. Congratulations, Valpo guys. You have a lot to be proud of (or, a lot of which to be proud - for stl's benefit ;)).
The campus is much more impressive looking than 10-15 years ago. No doubt the finances sound better and keeping us in the race for top students.
Harder to evaluate is whether the students feel the place has a real identity. You know the old story about the blind men and the elephant and how each thought the elephant was something different.
The greek system was the mixer in my day. (yeah "my day"... I sound like Dana Carvey's SNL "old man". Back then in the 80s, everyone walked hither and yon across tundras, busted pavement et al to engineering, business, old campus, nursing, and ed buildings. But then you hit the weekend and it was casual mixing on Mound, intramurals, and some BBall games in Hilltop. Good memories. Where does that occur now? In the music practice rooms?
Valpo ranks No. 3 Nationally by Washington Monthly! (out of 671)
Here's their methodology:
About the Rankings: We rate schools based on their contribution to the public good in three broad categories: Social Mobility (recruiting and graduating low-income students), Research (producing cutting-edge scholarship and PhDs), and Service (encouraging students to give something back to their country).
Also from Washington Monthly:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober_2014/features/americas_worst_colleges051752.php?page=all (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septemberoctober_2014/features/americas_worst_colleges051752.php?page=all)
AMERICA'S WORST COLLEGES
The simplest way to define a bad college is as a place that charges students large amounts of money, probably financed by debt they cannot afford, to receive an education so terrible that most students drop out before graduation. Translated in the parlance of federal statistics, that means a high "net price" (tuition minus grants and scholarships), high average student debt, a high "cohort default rate" (a federal measure that tracks the percentage of each college's freshman class that defaults on their student loans within three years of beginning to repay them), and a low graduation rate.
(http://wamo.s3.amazonaws.com/mag/1409/1409-Miller1_article.jpg)
(http://wamo.s3.amazonaws.com/mag/1409/1409-Miller2_article.jpg)
(http://wamo.s3.amazonaws.com/mag/1409/1409-Miller3_article.jpg)
(http://wamo.s3.amazonaws.com/mag/1409/1409-Miller4_article.jpg)
The high quality of America's best colleges creates a strong public belief that all U.S. institutions of higher education must be of similar quality. Top colleges lists reinforce this assumption, while the obsession over admissions sucks up all the air in public debates over college quality. This is a boon for those schools that are decidedly not world-class and that struggle with debt, cost, and completion. They fly under the radar with little attention and unearned positive reputations. And only the students who have the misfortune to enroll at one of these places find out the truth. If we want to improve national attainment and deal with college cost, that cannot continue. It's time to get these colleges some attention by putting them at the top of the list.
Wow, that is harsh that they create a Worst list!!!
Quote from: valpotx on November 11, 2014, 12:06:18 AMIf we want to improve national attainment and deal with college cost, that cannot continue. It's time to get these colleges some attention by putting them at the top of the list.
If we want to improve national attainment and deal with college cost, that cannot continue. It's time to get these colleges some attention by putting them at the top of the list.I agree that colleges that rip off students should be held accountable. Especially since it's us, the citizens, who underwrite these defaulted loans through our paying taxes to the government.
More good news. collegechoice.net has ranked Valpo number 2 Midwest Regional University and number one Christian University in the nation!
Here are the top 10 Midwest Regional Universities:
1. Creighton
2. Valpo
3. John Carroll
4. Bradley
5. Butler
6. Xavier
7. Drake
8. Evansville
9. Milwaukee School of Engineering
10. Rockhurst
Perhaps most interesting is the ranking for Christian Universities. Note: Catholic colleges, (where Villanova was ranked No.1 and Notre Dame No. 2) are listed in a separated category. We'll let Apostle lead the discussion there!
Here's the top 10:
1. Valpo
2. Samford
3. Union
4. Pepperdine
5. Whitworth
6. Augsburg
7. Belmont
8. Pacific Lutheran
9. Lipscomb
10. Gustavus Adolphus
I found it interesting that a school like Wheaton was only ranked No. 14.
We are clearly getting noticed in a very positive way by more and more publications. Congrats to the faculty and administration--and, certainly, to the students!!
Neat to see such things. You can't complain if you are ever ranked ahead of Pepperdine, as that is a really good school.
Are we certain Gustavus Adolphus is an actual school?
Quote from: a3uge on June 02, 2015, 11:31:27 AM
Are we certain Gustavus Adolphus is an actual school?
Actually, yes! As a person who spent a bunch of years in Minnesota, and who knew several "Gusties" at my church, I can assure you that it is a real place! In fact Valpo has played them in basketball starting in the 1927-28 season and most recently in 78-79. Fortunately, we are undefeated with an overall record of 4-0!!
Gustie is the alma mater of James McPherson, Pulitzer Prize winning author of BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM. and retired professor at Princeton. I ran a regional office for a publishing company and lived in Princeton for four years. .As a Civil War buff I knew of McPherson and was able to attend a few of his seminars. Fantastic!
Quote from: vu72 on November 10, 2014, 09:22:03 AM
Valpo ranks No. 3 Nationally by Washington Monthly! (out of 671)
Here's their methodology:
About the Rankings: We rate schools based on their contribution to the public good in three broad categories: Social Mobility (recruiting and graduating low-income students), Research (producing cutting-edge scholarship and PhDs), and Service (encouraging students to give something back to their country).
First, I think Valpo is a great school and one of the best teaching schools in the country. However, this comment about Washington Monthly's methodology points to the problematic methods for ranking universities. I would rate Valpo very high in the Service category, but the other two seem somewhat questionable. While there are examples of good research work at Valpo, there is no reasonable way to think that Valpo compares to Tier 1 research schools. Furthermore, they have very few (if any) PhD students. This is not a bad thing...because Valpo recognizes that its mission is teaching and helping young people develop. Additionally, while Valpo probably does the best it can, I probably wouldn't argue for Valpo being among the top-third in recruiting low-income students (though I am sure that the ones they do recruit and award scholarships to have a high probability of graduating).
So Forbes just released their rankings of the top 650 colleges/universities in America. To put this in perspective, understand that there are probably 4000 places for post secondary education. While clearly there are schools who should be ranked lower then Valpo on this list it is still always an interesting study. I started with The Horizon League and found the following ranking: Out of 650, YSU made it at #649!!!!! Next came WSU at # 634, CSU at #641, Northern Kentucky at #626, Milwaukee at #606, Oakland at #529 and UIC at # 355. Next comes us at #234. Detroit and Green Bay did not make the top 650. In Detroit's case either I missed something or they missed something. Green Bay? nuff said.
At #234 we ranked a head of well known state schools like Kansas and Alabama as well as privates like Evansville at #310, DePaul at #291, Loyola at # 294 or Butler at #241.
At the same time Valpo's sticker price in nearly $4000 less then Butler's and nearly $20,000 a year less then The University of Chicago!!
Drake and Denver at 143 and 145? You have to be kidding me.
I wonder how they rank these these schools. Iowa State ranked below Iowa? Please.
Quote from: usc4valpo on August 01, 2015, 08:55:09 AM
I wonder how they rank these these schools. Iowa State ranked below Iowa? Please.
I take these rankings with a grain of salt. Schools have their strong majors and colleges and their weak ones. Kind of hard to compare most schools imo.
I believe Forbes looked mostly at return on investment and debt repayment. Not surprising Valpo scored high. Debt repayment is often higher at private schools because students there are more likely to complete the four years which is the highest indicator of debt repayment and with two strong colleges in Engineering and Nursing that helps with return on investment.
The easiest way to become disenchanted with the legitimacy of a survey like this is to start questioning specific rankings compared to Valpo's. IMO the most important takeaway here is that Valpo is ranked higher than 87% of all 4-year colleges and universities in the country. That is impressive by anyone's standards and something for which Valpo alums should be proud. This is a Valpo board, so I don't talk about my alma mater, but let me just say I would love to be where you are.
wh
Valpo again No. 1 in Washington Monthly ranking!
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2015/masters-universities-rank.php (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2015/masters-universities-rank.php)
Regardless of the sources, these rankings should be made known to prospective students, including athletic recruits. I noticed we were well ahead of Gonzaga in the one list. I would think the University is doing this already.
Quote from: valpo64 on August 24, 2015, 01:31:03 PM
Regardless of the sources, these rankings should be made known to prospective students, including athletic recruits. I noticed we were well ahead of Gonzaga in the one list. I would think the University is doing this already.
As well as just about all of our competitors. Of the 100 ranked I counted only 10 other schools from the Midwest. Creighton, Evansville, Northern Iowa and Bradley are included but other schools, say, in Indiana, are nowhere to be found! ;)
Quote from: vu72 on August 24, 2015, 01:00:10 PM
Valpo again No. 1 in Washington Monthly ranking!
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2015/masters-universities-rank.php (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2015/masters-universities-rank.php)
Here is the complete list. Valpo is ranked No.1 of 673 universities in the Masters Division.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2015/masters-universities-rank-all.php (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings-2015/masters-universities-rank-all.php)
To see how the 16 Indiana schools fared, click "sort by state" next to the "Institution" column heading at the top. The second highest IN school is Evansville at 41, followed by Butler at 138.
US NEWS Latest Ranking http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-midwest/data (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/regional-universities-midwest/data)
Regional Universities Midwest Rankings
T&F = Tuition & Fees; Enroll = enrollment; F14A = Fall of 2014 Acceptance Rate; AFRR = Av Freshman Retention Rate; 6YGR = 6 year graduation rate
#1 Creighton University (Score-100)
Omaha, NE
T&F Enroll F14AR AFRR 6YGR
$36,422 8,236 72.7% 90% 78%
#2 Butler University (Score-95)
Indianapolis, IN
T&F Enroll F14AR AFRR 6YGR
$37,010 4,848 68.5% 90% 78%
#3 Drake University (Score-91)
Des Moines, IA
T&F Enroll F14AR AFRR 6YGR
$33,696 5,062 69.3% 88% 78%
#4 Bradley University (Score-86)
Peoria, IL
T&F Enroll F14AR AFRR 6YGR
$31,480 5,300 64.3% 87% 74%
#5 Valparaiso University (Score-85)
Valparaiso, IN
T&F Enroll F14AR AFRR 6YGR
$36,160 4,516 82.4% 85% 67%
#6 Xavier University (Score-82)
Cincinnati, OH
T&F Enroll F14AR AFRR 6YGR
$35,080 6,538 73.2% 83% 71%
It seems the reasons VU is ranked only fifth are (1) an acceptance rate that is at least 10 percentage points higher than other schools in the top 10, and (2) a six-year graduation rate that is low compared with other top 10 schools.
In other words, it appears from these two statistics that we are admitting too many kids who have a poor chance of graduating. Maybe we should focus on being more selective (Drake University has done this and their ranking has gone up) and less on increasing total enrollment to 6000 students, which seemed unrealistic to me when this goal was first announced several years ago.
Perhaps some VU administrators or professors who are members of this board can share their insights on this particular issue.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on September 09, 2015, 06:26:30 PM
It seems the reasons VU is ranked only fifth are (1) an acceptance rate that is at least 10 percentage points higher than other schools in the top 10, and (2) a six-year graduation rate that is low compared with other top 10 schools.
In other words, it appears from these two statistics that we are admitting too many kids who have a poor chance of graduating. Maybe we should focus on being more selective (Drake University has done this and their ranking has gone up) and less on increasing total enrollment to 6000 students, which seemed unrealistic to me when this goal was first announced several years ago.
Perhaps some VU administrators or professors who are members of this board can share their insights on this particular issue.
Paul
While striving to be our best always, perhaps focusing in on just one study may be to limiting when deciding whether or not the administrators should shift their collective admissions policy. We did finish fifth out of 146 schools in this category and a head of highly thought of institutions like Xavier, John Carroll and Evansville, just in the top 10.
At the same time other studies rank Valpo the No.1 Christian institution nationally, not only in the Midwest, as well as being the No.1 Master's level institution, again nationally, in schools giving back to society. These values are also clearly part of Valpo's mission and areas where we finished way ahead of the four schools ranked a head of us in the US News report. Heady stuff.
Yep. For instance I looked at National Universities and found #47 Lehigh (wonder why?) and here are their scores. Note the F14AR compared to Valpo. Also note Lehigh's Freshman retention rate.
#47 (Tie) Lehigh University
Bethlehem, PA
T&F Enroll F14AR AFRR 6YGR
$46,230 7,119 34.3% 95% 87%
Paul: I think you got it right. The direction to increase the enrollment is probably making the university a little less selective and is consequently bringing down the retention and graduation rates.
President Heckler has consistently preached that in order to sustain competitive D1 athletic programs the nice student union building and library and other shared facilities, we need to increase enrollment, diversify campus, stop erecting new buildings, and grow the endowment.
I am personally on board with his vision. I enjoy the competitive athletic teams, the vibrant campus and the nice facilities. I would not want to sacrifice those benefits to enhance the institutional statistics so that maybe (or maybe not) we get bumped up from #5 to what? #3?
Also, I can't pass this opportunity without bragging about my College of Engineering ranking #22 among undergraduate Engineering programs in the NATION! ;D
Quote from: ValpoFan on September 09, 2015, 09:50:15 PM
I am personally on board with his vision. I enjoy the competitive athletic teams, the vibrant campus and the nice facilities. I would not want to sacrifice those benefits to enhance the institutional statistics so that maybe (or maybe not) we get bumped up from #5 to what? #3?
Great point. What were we 4-5 years ago? Our overall reputation still seems to be great, if not, even better than before. I say keep doing what we're doing.
When I was in school, we were #1 or #2 on this list each year.
Quote from: valpotx on September 10, 2015, 01:21:56 AM
When I was in school, we were #1 or #2 on this list each year.
.....and you had to walk from B/W to classes on east campus in snow storms. Yep. We know the drill. :-)
Quote from: ValpoFan on September 09, 2015, 09:50:15 PMPresident Heckler has consistently preached that in order to sustain competitive D1 athletic programs the nice student union building and library and other shared facilities, we need to increase enrollment, diversify campus, stop erecting new buildings, and grow the endowment.
ValpoFan, I get the part about increasing enrollment and growing the endowment. But I don't understand how calling a halt to putting up new buildings, or "diversifying" the campus helps VU stay competitive in D1 athletics, or sustain great facilities like the union and library.
Paul
There are two ways to look at this.
(1) Increase selectivity first, retaining/graduating students at a higher rate into well paying jobs that eventually result in greater give back (alumni support) to the university, and thereby, over time, upping our ratings. To sustain this selectivity requires higher tuition to cover costs right off the bat. But there is a consumer value perception at work here - will people pay top dollar? It is a slow process (a generation maybe?) with no guarantees.
(2) Increase enrollment yadda yadda. More students paying less inflated tuition. Grow to 6,000 and grow the campus commensurate with enrollment growth. It is a faster process with a little less risk. The ratings take a temporary hit (as Valpofan says for what, 2-3 places?). Once stabilized at 6,000 with the infrastructure and faculty in place, begin increasing selectivity. It is a faster process (10 years maybe?) and gets us to where we need to be. But, to do this the Valpo brand needs even more visibility (ergo, the need to have a good MBB program and do other things that promote the brand nationally.)
BTW, regarding the endowment: I can recall when I first joined the forum (November 2011) that we were talking about an endowment that was in the neighborhood of $160MM maybe? In 4+ years it has increased to over $202MM. That's not too shabby.
Obtaining a lower admittance rate might increase the perception of quality (in a vague sort of way) to the outside world, which is worth something. I think the solution should be framed as finding ways to entice students of high caliber to choose Valpo rather than to field more applications overall or to keep out those students who indicate they might not make it at Valpo (The average ACT of incoming freshmen at Valpo is comparable to other schools on the list, so I question how much the retention rate has to do with accepting too many unprepared students).
While the number of students Valpo admit is high relative to its peers, the number that catches my eye even more is the percentage of admitted students who choose Valpo--18%. It's actually on par with the schools we're competing with (and higher than Butler's), but it still seems low. It means that Valpo is not at the top of the list for 80% of people admitted. I'm assuming that a large chunk of those students are very good students who apply to a few quality colleges and end up deciding they can do better than Valpo. If Valpo can make itself the #1 school for more of the students they are already admitting, then they can gradually become more selective.
Also, great point by VU72 that you can slice schools so many ways. Great to be acknowledged for a variety of reasons by a variety of publications who try to take a stab at "ranking". The Washington Monthly poll acknowledges, in a way, that we are succeeding at what Valpo is trying to be--not just a source of education, but a source of "good" for the world. To that point, Valpo might be more willing to give a shot to a kid who might, on paper, seem like he or she couldn't make it. While it might create a little drag on metrics like 6-year graduation rates, I trust the success stories, which can't be measured as readily, are worth the cost.
(sidenote: the endowment for Valpo in 2011 was $163 million. Since January 2011, the S&P500 has risen 53%. If Valpo's endowment was put in a simple index fund, it would be worth $244 million today (less about $5 million in endowment income VU has used since then).)
Info found here:
http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1422/Valparaiso-University (http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1422/Valparaiso-University)
http://nonprofits.findthecompany.com/l/499665/Lutheran-University-Association (http://nonprofits.findthecompany.com/l/499665/Lutheran-University-Association)
Quote from: Vale O. Paradise on September 10, 2015, 09:31:17 AM
Obtaining a lower admittance rate might increase the perception of quality (in a vague sort of way) to the outside world, which is worth something. I think the solution should be framed as finding ways to entice students of high caliber to choose Valpo rather than to field more applications overall or to keep out those students who indicate they might not make it at Valpo (The average ACT of incoming freshmen at Valpo is comparable to other schools on the list, so I question how much the retention rate has to do with accepting too many unprepared students).
While the number of students Valpo admit is high relative to its peers, the number that catches my eye even more is the percentage of admitted students who choose Valpo--18%. It's actually on par with the schools we're competing with (and higher than Butler's), but it still seems low. It means that Valpo is not at the top of the list for 80% of people admitted. I'm assuming that a large chunk of those students are very good students who apply to a few quality colleges and end up deciding they can do better than Valpo. If Valpo can make itself the #1 school for more of the students they are already admitting, then they can gradually become more selective.
Also, great point by VU72 that you can slice schools so many ways. Great to be acknowledged for a variety of reasons by a variety of publications who try to take a stab at "ranking". The Washington Monthly poll acknowledges, in a way, that we are succeeding at what Valpo is trying to be--not just a source of education, but a source of "good" for the world. To that point, Valpo might be more willing to give a shot to a kid who might, on paper, seem like he or she couldn't make it. While it might create a little drag on metrics like 6-year graduation rates, I trust the success stories, which can't be measured as readily, are worth the cost.
(sidenote: the endowment for Valpo in 2011 was $163 million. Since January 2011, the S&P500 has risen 53%. If Valpo's endowment was put in a simple index fund, it would be worth $244 million today (less about $5 million in endowment income VU has used since then).)
Info found here:
http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1422/Valparaiso-University (http://colleges.startclass.com/l/1422/Valparaiso-University)
http://nonprofits.findthecompany.com/l/499665/Lutheran-University-Association (http://nonprofits.findthecompany.com/l/499665/Lutheran-University-Association)
As an investment advisor, I can tell you that colleges do not invest as they once did. If the market went down 30 some percent as it did during 2008, alumni would be screaming if the endowment also took such a hit. As a result endowment managers, who are constantly seeking diversification, are now heavily invested in private equity among other things. These changes have occurred because of changes to banking regulations (Dodd-Frank and others) On paper such investments may be carried at cost but in reality there may be significant gains built in to be recognized at a later time.
I am not a financial expert but I will give it a shot. Yearly budgets include line items for the maintenance of buildings and paying their utility bills. The way it was explained to me is that, in a sustainable university, you would want the revenues from you endowment to cover your building operation and maintenance fees. In the last 10 years we have built a lot of new buildings (they're nice and we needed them) but the endowment hasn't grown accordingly. Now my guess is that the university will not turn away a donor who gives up $ for a new building (like the chapel extension). However, the next fundraising campaign is intended to exclusively grow the endowment funds.
As far as diversifying campus, it is highly correlated with increasing the enrollment. In order to reach the enrollment goals, we have to attract the business of the widest possible array of clients. A diverse campus will help with that. It also helps with the general image of the university. Most of the ranking agencies do not look favorably at universities that attract only one dimensional demographics.
Quote from: bbtds on September 10, 2015, 01:38:08 AM
Quote from: valpotx on September 10, 2015, 01:21:56 AM
When I was in school, we were #1 or #2 on this list each year.
.....and you had to walk from B/W to classes on east campus in snow storms. Yep. We know the drill. :-)
Yes, and your thing is apparently remembering people's posting history, and then trying to call them on it/make sarcastic comments. If you want to play that game, I will definitely start to fire back. Be careful what you wish for ;)
I posted my questions before I asked similar questions about our slippage in the U.S. news ranking.