Usually our student-athletes are exemplary citizens, but this time some of them displayed not very smart behavior. WVUR reports that 26 of those arrested are VU athletes. :(
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/police-arrest-at-underage-drinking-party/article_8590c2b7-6c56-57de-bf75-04537f720590.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/police-arrest-at-underage-drinking-party/article_8590c2b7-6c56-57de-bf75-04537f720590.html)
Memories of my FR year 1999-2000, when one of my friends drunk dialed the police station from the Phi Sig house. People were hiding all over as they shined lights into the building, and then entered. I was hiding behind some type of false wall, thinking to myself, 'I didn't even drink, why am I hiding?' Out of around 40 people, I was the only one who blew into the breathalyzer and walked free :).
Wow, things have changed in 30 years. Police would have been there to break up the party and make sure people didn't return, but arresting 45 under the age would not have happened, unless provoked. 100 people in a home that size, let alone the parking nearby, would be crazy. I'm guessing that the landlord is now aware of the situation!
I remember once attending a Memorial Day weekend party in my hometown of South Bend. The person that invited me was a VU student, but not of age. When I got there I realized it was more a party of her younger sisters - almost all HS students. Being the only person of age, they wanted me to drive to Michigan to get another keg, as it was Sunday night. I luckily declined. The police showed up a few minutes later, with everyone scattering and hiding. The police officer that showed up happened to be a HS classmate of mine, and we had not seen each other since graduation night. We caught up for awhile outside until he got a call that needed his attention and drove off. Not sure what would have happened today.
"During the investigation, one woman fell from the attic through the ceiling onto the shower floor, police said. The woman told police she was not hurt and was released by police due to not registering any alcohol on her breath, according to police reports."
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg)
Guys, this is serious. Four members of the men's basketball team? That could include all the freshman and sophomores, many of whom are in the rotation. Three members of the women's team as well. I think Alec Peters is dating Abby Dean and Tanner Kuramata is dating Jess Carr. Not to imply that they were there but what if??? This could be really ugly. My guess is suspensions for at least two games. We could be very shorthanded. :(
Suspend them for the Dec 21st game and call it a day.
Early Saturday morning? Doesn't that make it game day?
Fer cripes' sake!
Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 01:52:22 PMI think Alec Peters is dating Abby Dean
pics or it didn't happen
Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 01:52:22 PMFour members of the men's basketball team? That could include all the freshman and sophomores, many of whom are in the rotation. Three members of the women's team as well.
If those involved were not found hiding or impeding the police in any way, I'd think a light punishment would be in order. This would have been before the Ball State game, right? If this were IU or Purdue with four players involved, it would have been all over the internet prior to tip off!
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 15, 2014, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 01:52:22 PMI think Alec Peters is dating Abby Dean
pics or it didn't happen
https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/v/t1.0-1/p200x200/10320369_219814538229676_8450834225703027334_n.jpg?oh=da4be3bfb55718904c0f873903d7ce16&oe=55439044&__gda__=1426598330_f20e6235eb2d7bad47ecf70d2752c22c (https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/v/t1.0-1/p200x200/10320369_219814538229676_8450834225703027334_n.jpg?oh=da4be3bfb55718904c0f873903d7ce16&oe=55439044&__gda__=1426598330_f20e6235eb2d7bad47ecf70d2752c22c)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=219860201558443&set=t.100002461113358&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xaf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10330253_219860201558443_2920565548022273031_n.jpg%3Foh%3Da8a89bebd2dfc7f4ffa7a262efb6b348%26oe%3D553CA481&size=720%2C960 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=219860201558443&set=t.100002461113358&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xaf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10330253_219860201558443_2920565548022273031_n.jpg%3Foh%3Da8a89bebd2dfc7f4ffa7a262efb6b348%26oe%3D553CA481&size=720%2C960)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=219859954891801&set=t.100002461113358&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xpf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10303780_219859954891801_6752035832577506606_n.jpg%3Foh%3D1dd0dc2c5a2e9bf7cae18840a01666d8%26oe%3D5508A5C7&size=720%2C960 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=219859954891801&set=t.100002461113358&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xpf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10303780_219859954891801_6752035832577506606_n.jpg%3Foh%3D1dd0dc2c5a2e9bf7cae18840a01666d8%26oe%3D5508A5C7&size=720%2C960)
Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 02:47:56 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 15, 2014, 02:28:57 PM
Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 01:52:22 PMI think Alec Peters is dating Abby Dean
pics or it didn't happen
https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/v/t1.0-1/p200x200/10320369_219814538229676_8450834225703027334_n.jpg?oh=da4be3bfb55718904c0f873903d7ce16&oe=55439044&__gda__=1426598330_f20e6235eb2d7bad47ecf70d2752c22c (https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/v/t1.0-1/p200x200/10320369_219814538229676_8450834225703027334_n.jpg?oh=da4be3bfb55718904c0f873903d7ce16&oe=55439044&__gda__=1426598330_f20e6235eb2d7bad47ecf70d2752c22c)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=219860201558443&set=t.100002461113358&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xaf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10330253_219860201558443_2920565548022273031_n.jpg%3Foh%3Da8a89bebd2dfc7f4ffa7a262efb6b348%26oe%3D553CA481&size=720%2C960 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=219860201558443&set=t.100002461113358&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xaf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10330253_219860201558443_2920565548022273031_n.jpg%3Foh%3Da8a89bebd2dfc7f4ffa7a262efb6b348%26oe%3D553CA481&size=720%2C960)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=219859954891801&set=t.100002461113358&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xpf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10303780_219859954891801_6752035832577506606_n.jpg%3Foh%3D1dd0dc2c5a2e9bf7cae18840a01666d8%26oe%3D5508A5C7&size=720%2C960 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=219859954891801&set=t.100002461113358&type=3&src=https%3A%2F%2Fscontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-xpf1%2Fv%2Ft1.0-9%2F10303780_219859954891801_6752035832577506606_n.jpg%3Foh%3D1dd0dc2c5a2e9bf7cae18840a01666d8%26oe%3D5508A5C7&size=720%2C960)
Someone from the University needs to tell these student-athletes to change their Facebook account from "Public" to "Private" or "Friends".
(I'm at least glad none of them pulled a DYKWIA like you-know-who in my VHS grad class...)
Story on the Times site has been updated - now says two men's basketball team members.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 15, 2014, 02:28:57 PMQuote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 01:52:22 PMI think Alec Peters is dating Abby Dean
pics or it didn't happen
Not to start a controversy but he was sitting with a different female while watching the women's game. Maybe it was Abby's BFF......do-do, do-do, do-do, do-do.......
Quote from: vusupporter on December 15, 2014, 03:17:26 PMStory on the Times site has been updated - now says two men's basketball team members.
PANIC THE OTHER TWO HAVE BEEN KICKED OFF THE TEAM
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/ed/edc67ca1eb00f62472d392fe412bf95bd1003a38f283281538b766e7e645c130.jpg)
Post-Trib weighs in:
http://posttrib.chicagotribune.com/31672985-537/vu-football-players-among-45-arrested-at-off-campus-party.html#.VI9ft0tp-LA (http://posttrib.chicagotribune.com/31672985-537/vu-football-players-among-45-arrested-at-off-campus-party.html#.VI9ft0tp-LA)
QuoteDevan Gadson, 21, a VU senior and a defensive linebacker
At first I thought they didn't know anything about football, and then I realized they were describing his disposition upon arrest.
Have a feeling one of the players is Damien Walker. He always takes one too many shots.
This is how I imagine it would be if me and a3uge ever hung out.
(http://razzball.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/chris-farley-chris-farley-31460139-485-386.jpg)
here's what everyone else probably thinks it would be
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ez4z3kIW1qclkew.jpg)
here's what it would probably end up being
(http://news.uwlax.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Dynamic_DuoUWL.jpg)
Kids don't realize that arrests like these can cause you to miss out on solid employment opportunities in the future.
When will we find out who it was?
Something doesn't sound quite right here. If 4 MBB players actually failed a breathalyzer, were handcuffed, taken to jail, charged with underage consumption of alcohol, and released, all in the wee hours of Saturday morning, why would they have been allowed to play that night? I highly doubt that the basketball program has to wait for a conviction in a court of law to deem this to be a violation of team rules. For example, what if instead a member of the coaching staff came upon a party and caught 4 players drinking? That's all the evidence that would be needed to immediately suspend them.
So, why weren't they suspended for Saturday night's game? Could it be that there is some question as to their guilt? Or, could there be a question as to whether what they did rises to the level of suspension?
Guessing it was in actuality late Saturday night/early Sunday morning. And as noted in the other thread, the Times story has been revised to just two MBB team members.
have heard the two are Jubril Adekoya and Shane Hammink
That's disappointing.
All arrested listed at the following: http://www.nwitimes.com/records/crime-times/porter-county-crimetimes/article_6ab2f59b-1ad8-5d14-b952-87d7c9c55420.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/records/crime-times/porter-county-crimetimes/article_6ab2f59b-1ad8-5d14-b952-87d7c9c55420.html)
I thought 4 mens basketball players were arrested?
2 players and 2 managers
Of course it's Jubril. Can't do anything right this season.
I posted this question on Twitter.
If a party of 100 VU students was busted for underage drinking and a party of 100 VHS students was busted for underage drinking, which would result in more arrests?
Hammink, who's ineligible, and Jubril. Definitely not a good situation, but could have been much worse.
You suspend them. It's simple. You are a student athlete and know you are under more scrutiny than other students.
Plus your conduct and "perception" is talked numerous times during team meetings.
Also, I find it strange that grown men are posting links to players girlfriends pictures. I know they are online for all to see but to post a link is freaking weird!
I'm glad I'm not the only one a bit disturbed by how quickly some of these dudes are posting pictures of players and their girlfriends. :crazy:
Jubril could use a few games off, might do him some good.
Well, that explains it. If my FTs were like that, I'd be driven to drink too.
But, in all honesty, if the NCAA jerked me around, I'd probably drink all season too :/ All dressed up and no place to play.
Quote from: Pgmado on December 15, 2014, 07:26:04 PM
I posted this question on Twitter.
If a party of 100 VU students was busted for underage drinking and a party of 100 VHS students was busted for underage drinking, which would result in more arrests?
Easy. VHS students. After all, it's already been proven that even Jeff Samardzija (w/o looking spelling up) couldn't outrun the cops...
Quote from: HC on December 15, 2014, 07:30:37 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one a bit disturbed by how quickly some of these dudes are posting pictures of players and their girlfriends. :crazy:
Jubril could use a few games off, might do him some good.
So posting pictures from a public forum like Facebook is somehow weird? Get a grip on reality. There was no "lurid" nature to my post. Jeez.
Lol. This week I've been told to "keep stay in' lame" by an 8th grade girl and to "get a grip on reality" by an old man my week is complete and it's only Monday night. I just find it strange, and I'm glad I wasn't alone, that people are posting pictures like this. That's all sorry if you took offense.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 15, 2014, 07:46:47 PM
Well, that explains it. If my FTs were like that, I'd be driven to drink too.
But, in all honesty, if the NCAA jerked me around, I'd probably drink all season too :/ All dressed up and no place to play.
Quote from: Pgmado on December 15, 2014, 07:26:04 PM
I posted this question on Twitter.
If a party of 100 VU students was busted for underage drinking and a party of 100 VHS students was busted for underage drinking, which would result in more arrests?
Easy. VHS students. After all, it's already been proven that even Jeff Samardzija (w/o looking spelling up) couldn't outrun the cops...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm guessing though that Jubril will sit the next few or several games.
We're all part of the forum family! If I did something wrong I would respect your opinion.
Wait, did you call me an "old man"?????? ;)
100+ people at a college party....Sounds lame! I'm sure that when we were sophomores in college that none of us would have attended something like that....
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7477/15846666637_d19b46a0c0_z_d.jpg)
Jubril: Anybody going to the party at Gadson's house?
Nick: NO!!!!!!!!
Jubril: Shane? Shane? Wake up! You need a party!
Darien: Whatever you do, David, don't go to Gadson's party!
David: Who Gadson?
EVic: Damn! I was gonna slam it! ESPN, baby!
you know it's a big deal in these here parts when we have two whole threads on the same topic
Man, leave Jubril alone about his play. The dude has a motor, and has been solid in defending larger guys. He isn't a scorer, rather more of a defense/rebound guy.
Quote from: HC on December 15, 2014, 07:30:37 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one a bit disturbed by how quickly some of these dudes are posting pictures of players and their girlfriends. :crazy:
Jubril could use a few games off, might do him some good.
We know you clicked them...
What really bothers me i that these two guys, hear about a get to gether and stop by. Somebody says " you guys want a beer"? And they take a glass and have a few drinks.
All hell breaks lose and they get caught up with the babe in the ceiling. TOTAL BS.
These kids are acting like college kids. SHOCKING; I know.
It is truly unfortunate that Valpo has become a police state. Can you imagine what Shane is thinking?? "I left LSU for this???
Quote from: Pgmado on December 15, 2014, 07:26:04 PMIf a party of 100 VU students was busted for underage drinking and a party of 100 VHS students was busted for underage drinking, which would result in more arrests?
Although I've been here 12 of the last 15 years, I'll always be a Northwest Indiana outsider. This has been explained to me over the years by friends I've made that have no connection to the university, or "VU" as they snobbishly refer to it. There is absolutely no love lost for the university when it comes to many people from the town. It's almost as if natives from Valpo are angered by the fact that people associate Valparaiso with the university as opposed to, I don't know, the high school, Orville, etc. There are certain communities that embrace being college towns and it almost seems as if Valparaiso the town is constantly trying to apologize for having a college here.
What does this all have to do with the arrests? The students that go to the university aren't "our own" like the high school students are. I know of high school parties that have gotten broken up by cops in town with no recourse other than "get home to your parents." I remember the 18 yr. old star running back for a local high school being arrested for underage drinking and the media ignoring the story because "nobody wants to read that" when at the same time the local media has no trouble with writing about a fifth-string VU offensive lineman getting busted for drinking.
If there is anything to be taken from this situation, it's this -- more than 100 college students were at a party on Saturday (to say nothing of the 250 that were at a party the previous weekend) and all the cops got was alcohol. No weed. No coke. No heroin. No Adderall. Just alcohol. It could've been much worse.
I'm sure my view isn't all that popular and knowing that this is a VU forum, perhaps I'm preaching to the choir. Go to nearly any other college town and these kids would've been given tickets for underage drinking instead of getting arrested. Maybe it's because I'm from Milwaukee, but I'll never understand why this town/state has such a negative idea of alcohol. Can't buy it on Sundays. Can't have more than a handful of three-way liquor licenses in the town. Can't drink on election day. Can't walk down the street drunk. I can remember when I went to college that we'd say it was easier to avoid the cops if you were drinking and driving as opposed to drinking and walking.
Finally, Valparaiso is a Lutheran school. What was Jesus' first miracle? Exactly.
Quote from: valpotx on December 15, 2014, 10:39:12 PM
Man, leave Jubril alone about his play. The dude has a motor, and has been solid in defending larger guys. He isn't a scorer, rather more of a defense/rebound guy.
I'm with you valpotx. If we lose him for any length of time it is really going to hurt.
For a trip down memory/Lind Lane, type "1103 Lind Lane" in the Times' search, and this brief from 2010 comes up in addition to the recent arrests: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/crimebriefs/article_eb0ef03c-c798-5ab3-b1af-3f501bb2f8c7.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/crimebriefs/article_eb0ef03c-c798-5ab3-b1af-3f501bb2f8c7.html)
I echo Paul's comments, and I'm a NW Indiana resident my entire life, but I have some questions about said "drinking party".
I think I've been to a drinking party or two in my life, but never called it a drinking party, in fact this is the first time I've heard of this term. Do we no longer call these types of parties a house party?
Does there have to be food for it to qualify as a house party?
Was there no food at this party?
That's a pretty terrible host to not have at least some cookies, right?
How mad would you be at the worst Anne Frank impression ever? I know I would be furious at her if I was also in the attic!
Back to the party itself, do you think it was BYOB or charge for a cup and drink from the keg?
If it was charge by the cup, do you think the cops took that money? I mean it was illegally gained.
You think you get your deposit back on the keg or is that evidence that the cops take?
On the semantics of "drinking party", would they just call it a party if there were drugs involved?
If there was no drinking involved but there were drugs would it have been called a "drug party", probably not right?
Do you think they had games? I mean they obviously had beer pong, because every "drinking party" has beer pong, but I mean games like Cards Against Humanity or an Wii hooked up to the TV with like Mario Party.
Do kids still play games like that at parties? At our final party at our one friends house (they moved out, no one had a good house to party at anymore as the rest of us are apartment renters) we played Goldeneye to kick up the nostalgia factor for us 20-somethings.
Now I really want to know what the parties we threw in my friends basement. We have a lot of booze, but we also made food so we could eat through out the party. Granted we all of age.
Seriously if you're throwing a booze filled party, get some food. That's my advice to all potential party throwers. Then it won't be an ominous sounding "drinking party".
I think that pgmado makes some great points in his comments. I had thought that the relationship between the town and the university had gotten better in recent years, but apparently the people that live in Valparaiso are still indifferent towards the university. The town being indifferent to the university makes no sense to me, though, when you consider what the town residents get from having the university. First, they get entertainment options way beyond what a town like Valparaiso could readily afford if there was no university. Besides sports, the university offers a lot in terms of concerts, drama, speakers, art, etc. All of these are almost totally funded within the university and town residents are always welcome. Second, the university brings some wealthy students but clearly brings a lot of good paying jobs. One would wonder what percentage of the town's economy is based on spending from the university and from employees of the university. Third. because of the first two items, property values are likely higher and more stable during economic downturns. If what pgmado is saying is true, the residents really are not looking at the big picture very well.
We have lived in Lawrence, KS for the last 3 1/2 years. While the ratio of students to residents is a little higher in Lawrence (~23,000/90,000) than Valparaiso (~4500/30,000), the people in Lawrence really embrace the university. When you look at the "always full" Allen Fieldhouse, remember that of the 16,300 for each game only about 4500 are students and another 1,000 are faculty and staff. The balance comes from the town. While one would certainly argue that Kansas has a much better history than pretty much any program in the country, those residents are also paying top dollar for tickets (season tickets for basketball start at $1250 each and require a donation to the athletic scholarship fund). Other sports are well supported and all other university activites are open to residents. The result is a friendly town where the university and town really support each other - and this is where the town of Valparaiso needs to be.
I have a friend that is a police officer in Lawrence. When I asked him about student underage drinking, he said that they really don't want to arrest any students and if they are polite and discard the alcohol and leave, they just let it drop. Of course if they are stupid and give the officer a hard time, are a danger to themselves or someone else, damage property, etc., then they arrest them. Frankly, this is what the Valparaiso police need to do as well...though in the case of this party I definitely feel that they should arrest the people that were running the party and providing that much alcohol to underage students.
The situation with Jubril Adekoya is remarkably similar to the recent situation in Lawrence with Jamari Traylor. Both are from Chicago, both are 4s that sometimes play the 5, both had not had great seasons so far, etc. Traylor got arrested at a party in a club for interfering with a police officer (not physically). His punishment was a one game suspension and, I am sure, lots of running. One or two games would be a reasonable punishment for Adekoya and it needs to start the next game (IPFW). Hopefully Adekoya will come back llike Traylor did, he was key to beating Utah and had his best game of the year.
Quote from: KL31NY on December 16, 2014, 09:48:43 AM
For a trip down memory/Lind Lane, type "1103 Lind Lane" in the Times' search, and this brief from 2010 comes up in addition to the recent arrests: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/crimebriefs/article_eb0ef03c-c798-5ab3-b1af-3f501bb2f8c7.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/crimebriefs/article_eb0ef03c-c798-5ab3-b1af-3f501bb2f8c7.html)
Those police reports are really funny! I love the one about the guy wanting to be arrested for drinking while on probation. The cops said he wasn't drunk so couldn't arrest him for that. At this point he became disorderly and was then arrested for being disorderly!! :rotfl: If I read this correctly Tony Taibi,another football player who is also graduating, was one of the kids arrested in 2010.
Quote from: Kyle321n on December 16, 2014, 10:09:22 AM
I echo Paul's comments, and I'm a NW Indiana resident my entire life, but I have some questions about said "drinking party".
I think I've been to a drinking party or two in my life, but never called it a drinking party, in fact this is the first time I've heard of this term. Do we no longer call these types of parties a house party?
Does there have to be food for it to qualify as a house party?
Was there no food at this party?
That's a pretty terrible host to not have at least some cookies, right?
How mad would you be at the worst Anne Frank impression ever? I know I would be furious at her if I was also in the attic!
Back to the party itself, do you think it was BYOB or charge for a cup and drink from the keg?
If it was charge by the cup, do you think the cops took that money? I mean it was illegally gained.
You think you get your deposit back on the keg or is that evidence that the cops take?
On the semantics of "drinking party", would they just call it a party if there were drugs involved?
If there was no drinking involved but there were drugs would it have been called a "drug party", probably not right?
Do you think they had games? I mean they obviously had beer pong, because every "drinking party" has beer pong, but I mean games like Cards Against Humanity or an Wii hooked up to the TV with like Mario Party.
Do kids still play games like that at parties? At our final party at our one friends house (they moved out, no one had a good house to party at anymore as the rest of us are apartment renters) we played Goldeneye to kick up the nostalgia factor for us 20-somethings.
Now I really want to know what the parties we threw in my friends basement. We have a lot of booze, but we also made food so we could eat through out the party. Granted we all of age.
Seriously if you're throwing a booze filled party, get some food. That's my advice to all potential party throwers. Then it won't be an ominous sounding "drinking party".
All decent questions. I have a few as well.
* Did the ceiling collapse on the girl in the attic because of rot from the shower? Or was there some sort of vent she tried climbing in?
* Did anyone win hide and go seek? Who had the best hiding spot?
* How grumpy was this judge? Gets woken up to issue a warrant, and then actually faxes over an order.
* Where would you hide? I think I'd go for a bedroom and roll myself up in a blanket in the corner. Maybe a clothes hamper.
* How bad do you think Evan Bruinsma is going to tease his sister about this?
Examining the list of students charged, I know quite a few of them, some better than others, and I regard them as good young men and women, usually positive ambassadors for Valparaiso. Paul knows more of them than I do, and he knows them even better; therefore, I want to repeat an interesting point Paul raised that seems worth noting, the fact that more than 100 students were at a party and apprehended by the police, yet all the authorities found was alcohol, and the worst offenses concerned underage drinking. Among all those students, most of whom are athletes, not a single discovery of any kind of drugs and no incident of violence.
Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
What really bothers me i that these two guys, hear about a get to gether and stop by. Somebody says " you guys want a beer"? And they take a glass and have a few drinks.
All hell breaks lose and they get caught up with the babe in the ceiling. TOTAL BS.
These kids are acting like college kids. SHOCKING; I know.
It is truly unfortunate that Valpo has become a police state. Can you imagine what Shane is thinking?? "I left LSU for this???
Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
What really bothers me i that these two guys, hear about a get to gether and stop by. Somebody says " you guys want a beer"? And they take a glass and have a few drinks.
All hell breaks lose and they get caught up with the babe in the ceiling. TOTAL BS.
These kids are acting like college kids. SHOCKING; I know.
It is truly unfortunate that Valpo has become a police state. Can you imagine what Shane is thinking?? "I left LSU for this???
Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2014, 11:01:31 PM
What really bothers me i that these two guys, hear about a get to gether and stop by. Somebody says " you guys want a beer"? And they take a glass and have a few drinks.
All hell breaks lose and they get caught up with the babe in the ceiling. TOTAL BS.
These kids are acting like college kids. SHOCKING; I know.
It is truly unfortunate that Valpo has become a police state. Can you imagine what Shane is thinking?? "I left LSU for this???
This is fantastic! I agree 100% I mean cmon its college for gods sake! They are 19 and 20 years old! Quite frankly I think if you're old enough to go to war and get shot in Iraq you can have a good ol' beer. ;)
Wow did I screw that up or what. :crazy:
There are a number of strands of thought in this thread that deserve to be teased out further.
First of all, people are complaining about the law itself (restricting drinking to 21). If you don't like it, change it; but don't claim that its inherent unjustness allows for civil disobedience of it now. (This ain't a Selma-level issue of justice; nor are the violators even taking such a stance. Yet.) If ignorance of the law is no excuse "I don't understand why I was arrested; I was only breaking the law" is neither.
At least tangential to that is complaining about attitudes about alcohol in general. Today the very existence of Prohibition is roundly mocked; but for a second, contemplate all that is required to pass a constitutional amendment. Then, realize that it passed (of course, it was also rescinded a generation later) at least 36 of 48 states. I'm wondering what social issue of our time could possibly get 3/4 of our red-and-blue states to agree in this day and age. (Any ideas?) Thus, there must have been a terrific amount of nationwide agreement about the damage that drunkenness was causing to American society. As Robert Frost says, "Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up." After the re-stigmatization of public intox, Prohibition could safely be repealed since it had had at least one desired effect. The "blue laws" about which Paul Oren complains are a vestige of Prohibition and a reminder that it's a tolerated/regulated vice.
Then there's the "boys will be boys" argument, sometimes recast as "college kids'll be college kids" (read: stupid). It's going to happen, so why not just let it? Although this kind of thinking has become popular, it represents a growing laxity in our moral thought; a gradual loosening of our collective will. Our young people will rise to the levels that are expected of them, but rarely any farther. Thus, having such an attitude is to condemn them to falling before it's even happened, all the while pretending like it's not a failure of morals to begin with.
How well would some I Can't Drink t-shirts go over at the ARC?
Breaking this up to avoid TL;DR.
As a "townie" in Valpo but having been a college kid in a very similar town/situation (and I am not talking about Ann Arbor or DC or Omaha or Tuscaloosa, but Delaware OH, just N of Columbus), I would reply to Paul thus:
--As just over a quarter of Porter County residents possess a bachelor's degree, I think part of the attitude of town-to-gown relations stems from America's healthy distrust of the (over-)educated (perhaps best illustrated by "Loser Makes Good", off Everclear's first album, World of Noise.) This attitude is hardly unique to Valparaiso; but if you think only 1-in-4 is not a good ratio, you'd be hard-pressed to find a county in this country with over 1/3 of residents have degrees! (Outside of the county in NM where Los Alamos is, of course, and the Beltway suburbs.)
--Still more of it is explained by the natural carpet-baggerness of college kids; they come in, are usually only surface-invested in the wider community during their time, and the vast majority leave. It might be true that Valpo retains more than perhaps is average, due to things like Lutheranness, but even if so, it's a little like the argument as to who is likely to take better care of an apartment? An owner, or the renter moving out soon? Again, not specific to Valpo, but T2G relations in general.
--Another more specific reason is the 'privateness' of VU. I guarantee you Lawrence, Kansas would not as readily wrap its arms around something like, say, Benedictine College, were the two institutions switched geographically. Part of that is sectarian; part of that is size--it's a lot harder to ignore KU than VU. But VU is a fairly selective (see reason 1 again), private, sectarian school on the smaller side when compared to larger public schools. Not to mention geography...VU is on the SE corner of town; my college, although half the size of VU, and private and (nominally) sectarian--it's centrally located. (Imagine VU sitting astride Lincolnway at Calumet/Michigan, etc. Just a few blocks N and W of reality, but absolutely impossible to ignore and thus embedded in the heart/life of the city.)
--Finally, another part of it is simply ascribable to the fact that college kids, particularly this generation, have an inflated view of themselves and their place in the world. It's kind of like the famous New Yorker cover by Steinberg "View of the World from 9th Ave". But once people are out in the real world, they realize (hopefully!) they are no longer the center of the known universe. I'm saying that college kids notice that the rest of the world doesn't find them as crucially irreplaceable as they find themselves to be; and it is this disconnect that fuels an idea like 'townies don't appreciate us'.
I love that shirt
Finally: how stupid do you have to be to throw a party that big and think you'll get away with it?
That's basically daring law enforcement to do its job.
I'd bet $1k that had the party been even half as big, not only would there have been no arrests, there may well have been no intervention at all.
I guess I have two ways of looking at it, but no real purpose statement for either, but
1) Ignorance is not an excuse. (Think VU Honor Code, and ask Why Did You Drink?)
2)Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to live your life. (Thanks, Dean Wormer)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 16, 2014, 10:14:28 PM
Finally: how stupid do you have to be to throw a party that big and think you'll get away with it?
That's basically daring law enforcement to do its job.
I'd bet $1k that had the party been even half as big, not only would there have been no arrests, there may well have been no intervention at all.
As in most instances of this nature the initial intervention happened because they were making too much noise not because they were drinking. If you can drink and keep the noise down you usually don't get bothered by the police in the first place. Of course that is hard to do when students (or even middle aged adults for that matter) drink in excess.
I have to add that I completely understand Paul's desire to see better T2G relations.
Having lived in Tuscaloosa for several months, I was quite clear that no matter were I to spend the rest of my life there, I would always be an outsider. I would add that I think it even more the case there than here, but I remember a girl who moved in in 4th grade still thought of as "the new girl" some six years later. (That's one of the beauties of living in Naples--it's like DC or Vegas: no one's from there, so no one's an outsider.) I would think it tremendously frustrating were I to have made Valpo my home starting in college and feeling like an outsider for another 20 years or so.
I don't know how you go about rectifying that. I do know there were more interactions in years past--witness the Choral Society, under Eldon Balko, and later under Dennis Friesen-Carper, which was a choir composed of community and university types, as emblematic of more cooperation. I don't know that you can rectify that even with all the community outreach in the world, or at least all that there is time for. It's hard to figure.
Doesn't everyone here know why the relationship between VU and the City is the way it is? Certainly everyone knows that the Lutherans out bid the KKK when they bought the university from the Browns and that the university was responsible for integrating the city and bringing the first black family to Valparaiso from Chicago's Cabrini-Green. I was in Robert Cotton's class and freshman dorm at VU so maybe that is the only reason I am aware of the tension between the city and university at that time. There was even a book written about this social experiment (I have it somewhere but can't remember the title). This article pretty much explains the whole thing http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/a-struggled-balance-of-hope-and-fear/article_ad5fb23f-55de-5954-ae4c-73dc520d2198.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/a-struggled-balance-of-hope-and-fear/article_ad5fb23f-55de-5954-ae4c-73dc520d2198.html)
Whoa, you knew the first Cotton? I went to school with Jamaal.
I was just about to post something about how town-gown relations can always be worse, much worse: witness the book "Notre Dame Vs. the Klan", in which two days of street brawls between Catholic students and Klan evangelicals erupted. (I believe it's written by an Valparaisan.)
In googling the book to remember the title (been a while since I read it) I found this disturbing story:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25680655/ns/us_news-life/t/university-says-sorry-janitor-over-kkk-book/#.VJGyIktp-LA (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25680655/ns/us_news-life/t/university-says-sorry-janitor-over-kkk-book/#.VJGyIktp-LA)
Yikes.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2014, 10:44:47 AM(I believe it's written by an Valparaisan.)
So now we are Valpo-raisins?
Quote from: historyman on December 17, 2014, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2014, 10:44:47 AM(I believe it's written by an Valparaisan.)
So now we are Valpo-raisins?
Valparaiso-ites? Valparaiso-ins? Valparaiso-uns?
How about Valers?
I kind of like Valpeople. We're all Valpeople, let's just get along!
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2014, 10:44:47 AMWhoa, you knew the first Cotton? I went to school with Jamaal.
You are making it sound like
WAY TOO LONG AGO. I am not that old... or at least I don't feel that old. ;)
Has there been any official comment from VU regarding the "drinking party" incident as it may apply to discipline for athletes, especially the basketball programs? The silence is deafening!
Quote from: valpo64 on December 17, 2014, 01:49:36 PM
Has there been any official comment from VU regarding the "drinking party" incident as it may apply to discipline for athletes, especially the basketball programs? The silence is deafening!
I've been checking regularly with media sources and twitter etc. Not a word to my knowledge. Of course we will know something by game time but that's still a couple of days off. No teams are playing because of finals and when they do start again it will only be the two basketball teams.
Quote from: FWalum on December 17, 2014, 09:02:44 AM
Doesn't everyone here know why the relationship between VU and the City is the way it is? Certainly everyone knows that the Lutherans out bid the KKK when they bought the university from the Browns and that the university was responsible for integrating the city and bringing the first black family to Valparaiso from Chicago's Cabrini-Green. I was in Robert Cotton's class and freshman dorm at VU so maybe that is the only reason I am aware of the tension between the city and university at that time. There was even a book written about this social experiment (I have it somewhere but can't remember the title). This article pretty much explains the whole thing http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/a-struggled-balance-of-hope-and-fear/article_ad5fb23f-55de-5954-ae4c-73dc520d2198.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/a-struggled-balance-of-hope-and-fear/article_ad5fb23f-55de-5954-ae4c-73dc520d2198.html)
Yes, Reiner and others associated with the university stirred the pot big time back in the day. Reiner's view then was what today might be thought of as the liberal "inherent unfairness of white privilege" view. It became his personal mission to change that dynamic by remodeling and refurbishing run down homes in the university area, selecting African American families from poverty stricken/high crime urban areas in Chicago, and infusing them into the Valpo community. A fairly vocal group of city residents rose up in opposition, with some legitimacy IMO. There were city leaders who essentially said, "Who died and put you in charge of social re-engineering for the city of Valparaiso?" and "What makes you feel you're qualified to roll out this social experiment in a way that will be a win-win for everyone?" So, there you had it. Two groups at loggerheads - the Reiner group that had a plan and didn't want to risk anyone or anything getting in the way of it, and people from the city who felt that Reiner had no idea what he was doing and didn't understand (or care) what the consequences of his actions might be to the city. I should probably also note for context that this was only a short time after all the "white flight" from the city of Gary and the ensuing economic decline in a community only 25 miles from Valpo.
Fortunately, we have long since moved past that moment. Over time Valpo has become a much more accepting community, and I think the University has learned to work with the city instead of independently to help create a more racially sensitive, accepting environment. That said, I don't agree that that issue continues to drive city resident opposition to the university, except for maybe some old timers. I think there are some anti-VU issues; I just don't think that's one of them. Some of the issues are far more superficial, as LAA already noted, but there they're out there nonetheless.
Quote from: wh on December 17, 2014, 03:36:58 PM
Quote from: FWalum on December 17, 2014, 09:02:44 AM
Doesn't everyone here know why the relationship between VU and the City is the way it is? Certainly everyone knows that the Lutherans out bid the KKK when they bought the university from the Browns and that the university was responsible for integrating the city and bringing the first black family to Valparaiso from Chicago's Cabrini-Green. I was in Robert Cotton's class and freshman dorm at VU so maybe that is the only reason I am aware of the tension between the city and university at that time. There was even a book written about this social experiment (I have it somewhere but can't remember the title). This article pretty much explains the whole thing http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/a-struggled-balance-of-hope-and-fear/article_ad5fb23f-55de-5954-ae4c-73dc520d2198.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-and-regional/a-struggled-balance-of-hope-and-fear/article_ad5fb23f-55de-5954-ae4c-73dc520d2198.html)
Yes, Reiner and others associated with the university stirred the pot big time back in the day. Reiner's view then was what today might be thought of as the liberal "inherent unfairness of white privilege" view. It became his personal mission to change that dynamic by remodeling and refurbishing run down homes in the university area, selecting African American families from poverty stricken/high crime urban areas in Chicago, and infusing them into the Valpo community. A fairly vocal group of city residents rose up in opposition, with some legitimacy IMO. There were city leaders who essentially said, "Who died and put you in charge of social re-engineering for the city of Valparaiso?" and "What makes you feel you're qualified to roll out this social experiment in a way that will be a win-win for everyone?" So, there you had it. Two groups at loggerheads - the Reiner group that had a plan and didn't want to risk anyone or anything getting in the way of it, and people from the city who felt that Reiner had no idea what he was doing and didn't understand (or care) what the consequences of his actions might be to the city. I should probably also note for context that this was only a short time after all the "white flight" from the city of Gary and the ensuing economic decline in a community only 25 miles from Valpo.
Fortunately, we have long since moved past that moment. Over time Valpo has become a much more accepting community, and I think the University has learned to work with the city instead of independently to help create a more racially sensitive, accepting environment. That said, I don't agree that that issue continues to drive city resident opposition to the university, except for maybe some old timers. I think there are some anti-VU issues; I just don't think that's one of them. Some of the issues are far more superficial, as LAA already noted, but there they're out there nonetheless. wh points out correctly that it was the timing more then anything. Today no one would even notice.
I wonder if those same people who were so concerned with "social engineering" feel the same way about Habitat for Humanity. I mean doesn't Habitat build or refurbish homes for underprivileged folks? There is little doubt in my mind that the issue had little to d with "social re-engineering" and everything to do with "race redistribution" If Walt and Lois had installed a struggling white family in that first house, do you really think anyone would have noticed or cared?
Quote from: vu72 on December 17, 2014, 04:03:21 PM
If Walt and Lois had installed a struggling white family in that first house, do you really think anyone would have noticed or cared?
Of course not. But, for that very reason every effort should have been made to build partnerships in the community before they acted. That's the tough stuff that they didn't make a big enough effort to do. Instead, they created a lot of ill will that could have been avoided. The bottom line is their motives were wonderful but their methods left something to be desired.
Quote from: wh on December 17, 2014, 03:36:58 PMThat said, I don't agree that that issue continues to drive city resident opposition to the university, except for maybe some old timers. I think there are some anti-VU issues; I just don't think that's one of them.
I think that you are probably right in saying that racial sensitivity and social engineering is not the current issue driving the opposition. The opposition, or we versus them mentality, probably has been there since the beginning of the school in one form or another. Almost every college town has "it". I do think that it was a seminal event that causes a festering mistrust of the university community, and those priviledged enough to work at or attend VU.
My family has owned a summer home on a lake in Steuben County for about 75 years and the issues are similar, the Angola town's people call us "lakers" and the anti-laker attitude is almost always on display despite the fact that the "lakers" pay more than half the counties taxes and many ot the town's people owe their livelihood to those 5 month a year residents. All of these groups have their own agendas.
Quote from: wh on December 17, 2014, 04:56:44 PMThe bottom line is their motives were wonderful but their methods left something to be desired.
Unfortunately, I think this sentence accurately sums up a number of the difficulties I see in the relations between the university and the town. Since I have deep ties at the university and in the town, I often find myself in personal conversations or official meetings trying to explain one community to the other and bridging an evident divide. Without addressing the activities of Walt and Lois, a longtime good friend, or any other more contemporary specific instances, I can attest much of the suspicion or resentment expressed to me by townspeople arises from feelings that members of the university present an impression they think they know what is better for everyone and attempt to impose their views on the community "for its own good," often without regard for the perspectives of city residents. This is perceived as a condescending attitude, and the local resistance grows greater when those members of the university wishing to transform the community have recently transplanted to the area or are young faculty and students, who seem to display a lack of understanding regarding complex and long existing local sensibilities.
And really, it is the faculty who are at the epicenter of this; they are the ones with a foot in both camps.
They send their kids (generally) to the VCS, the high school more than the others (St Paul and Immanuel of course, especially the latter if Lutheran!), so they care about the community as well as their university community. But there aren't a whole lot of others in the intersection of that Venn diagram.
I said to Paul something to the effect that he is in a position to do some community building, and has done so; yet he can't feel like he has to accomplish this Sisyphean task, because not even Bryce could do that.
Now, Bryce did maybe more to bring Valpo and VU together than anyone else did or could, but we're still where we are.
Perhaps, rather than try to make some utopian 'it's a small world after all' harmony happen, we need to find how best to coexist given that we'll never be 'buddy-buddy', town'n gown...
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2014, 07:43:34 PMI said to Paul something to the effect that he is in a position to do some community building, and has done so; yet he can't feel like he has to accomplish this Sisyphean task, because not even Bryce could do that.
Wow, I hope everyone reading this has had mythology 101!
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/12/16/valparaiso-university-drinking-party-busted-athletes-arrestes/20471261/ (http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2014/12/16/valparaiso-university-drinking-party-busted-athletes-arrestes/20471261/)
"Of the 45 arrested, 26 were Valparaiso University athletes, including 17 football players, two members of the men's basketball team, two volleyball players, three women's basketball players, one woman's soccer player, one woman's tennis player and one women's track and field member. They were charged with minor consumption of an alcoholic beverage."
I am thinking they sign a code of conduct at beginning of the year which may include not drinking (or being arrested).
We know that two were arrested. I wonder if others of age were there and were in violation of team rules.
Now I'll venture over to the other thread to see if this has been approached.
OK, fine... I'll make it easier on everyone:
and I'll even cite my source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus)
In Greek mythology Sisyphus (/ˈsɪsɪfəs/;[1] Greek: Σίσυφος, Sísyphos) was a king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth). He was punished for chronic deceitfulness by being compelled to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it roll back down, and to repeat this action forever.
HCU.
Quote from: talksalot on December 18, 2014, 11:28:21 AMOK, fine... I'll make it easier on everyone:
and I'll even cite my source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus
In Greek mythology Sisyphus (/ˈsɪsɪfəs/;[1] Greek: Σίσυφος, Sísyphos) was a king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth). He was punished for chronic deceitfulness by being compelled to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it roll back down, and to repeat this action forever.
Wasn't being critical, just had not heard a reference to Sisyphus since probably my Humanities class with Kurt Jordan at CLHS. (Kurt was a Valpo alum and one of the best teachers at Concordia)
Quote from: valpopal on December 16, 2014, 03:12:39 PM
Examining the list of students charged, I know quite a few of them, some better than others, and I regard them as good young men and women, usually positive ambassadors for Valparaiso. Paul knows more of them than I do, and he knows them even better; therefore, I want to repeat an interesting point Paul raised that seems worth noting, the fact that more than 100 students were at a party and apprehended by the police, yet all the authorities found was alcohol, and the worst offenses concerned underage drinking. Among all those students, most of whom are athletes, not a single discovery of any kind of drugs and no incident of violence.
I think it is odd that all of those under age were arrested. I don't know about the town versus University problems, except that all towns with universities will have some problems. I lived in Valpo as a young child and attended VU in the 1980's I also had aunts, uncles, and cousins from Valpo the town, as well as VU grads. When I was in school and there was an off campus party that the police had reason to stop and investigate, there were never 100 people in a house that size. Were there some underage people there? Yes. Were they drinking? Yes. The police were there to respond to some complaint - noise usually, but I'm sure parking would have been an issue in last weekends case. The police were not there to make arrests, but to get people to leave and not return, due to the noise.
I don't know all of the situations from last weekend, but I'm sure that not allowing them to enter the house provoked some of the response. It is possible that the Valparaiso Police now have a policy when finding underage people drinking to give them all breathalyzers, and if found with alcohol in their system, to arrest them. Such a policy could be to limit liability - just imagine if they had broken up the party and someone leaving the party was later injured (or worse), or caused damage. The judge could have also advised the officers to use the fullest extent of the law. I'm sure the first officers at the scene wanted their superiors to make such a decision. Other than hiding, it appears there was little resisting arrest. As Tx recalled from his experience, why did the young lady that fell through the ceiling need to hide, especially if she had nothing to drink? If you run, they catch you; if you hide, they find you. Why push/provoke the police?
As valporun has stated, most of these students are good people. I don't envy the coaches nor the administration in coming down with some punishment. In one-on-one situations, most of us would tend to know when a 18-20 year old that we work with on a near daily basis is truly remorseful. Especially when they have been respectful, honest and full of integrity in your dealings with them in the past. I'm sure running, community service and some kind of game suspension will be involved.
Had I been one of the police officers, I think that I would have used the breathalyzer to determine which people of age would be able to drive others home. Those that were under 21 with alcohol on the breathalyzer would have their name taken down, sternly warned that they could have been arrested, and told that in mid May, when their name had not come up again with the Valpo PD, the list would be thrown away. The main thing would be to break up the party and make sure everyone gets home safely.
Quote from: covufan on December 18, 2014, 12:46:26 PM
Quote from: valpopal on December 16, 2014, 03:12:39 PM
Examining the list of students charged, I know quite a few of them, some better than others, and I regard them as good young men and women, usually positive ambassadors for Valparaiso. Paul knows more of them than I do, and he knows them even better; therefore, I want to repeat an interesting point Paul raised that seems worth noting, the fact that more than 100 students were at a party and apprehended by the police, yet all the authorities found was alcohol, and the worst offenses concerned underage drinking. Among all those students, most of whom are athletes, not a single discovery of any kind of drugs and no incident of violence.
I think it is odd that all of those under age were arrested. I don't know about the town versus University problems, except that all towns with universities will have some problems. I lived in Valpo as a young child and attended VU in the 1980's I also had aunts, uncles, and cousins from Valpo the town, as well as VU grads. When I was in school and there was an off campus party that the police had reason to stop and investigate, there were never 100 people in a house that size. Were there some underage people there? Yes. Were they drinking? Yes. The police were there to respond to some complaint - noise usually, but I'm sure parking would have been an issue in last weekends case. The police were not there to make arrests, but to get people to leave and not return, due to the noise.
I don't know all of the situations from last weekend, but I'm sure that not allowing them to enter the house provoked some of the response. It is possible that the Valparaiso Police now have a policy when finding underage people drinking to give them all breathalyzers, and if found with alcohol in their system, to arrest them. Such a policy could be to limit liability - just imagine if they had broken up the party and someone leaving the party was later injured (or worse), or caused damage. The judge could have also advised the officers to use the fullest extent of the law. I'm sure the first officers at the scene wanted their superiors to make such a decision. Other than hiding, it appears there was little resisting arrest. As Tx recalled from his experience, why did the young lady that fell through the ceiling need to hide, especially if she had nothing to drink? If you run, they catch you; if you hide, they find you. Why push/provoke the police?
As valporun has stated, most of these students are good people. I don't envy the coaches nor the administration in coming down with some punishment. In one-on-one situations, most of us would tend to know when a 18-20 year old that we work with on a near daily basis is truly remorseful. Especially when they have been respectful, honest and full of integrity in your dealings with them in the past. I'm sure running, community service and some kind of game suspension will be involved.
Had I been one of the police officers, I think that I would have used the breathalyzer to determine which people of age would be able to drive others home. Those that were under 21 with alcohol on the breathalyzer would have their name taken down, sternly warned that they could have been arrested, and told that in mid May, when their name had not come up again with the Valpo PD, the list would be thrown away. The main thing would be to break up the party and make sure everyone gets home safely.
My guess is, had the two hosting the party have cooperated when the police arrive, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. When you demand a search warrant, the police must call and wake up a judge who will issue it. If I'm that judge, you can bet that inconvenience is going to cost someone some headaches. We've probably all been to campus parties a time or two, and back in the day, they would have just told everyone to go home. Times have changed, the hosts provoked the officers, and there you have it. If you wake up a judge, someone will be getting arrested. The fact that there were so many athletes involved isn't too surprising, but the fact that there were any involved that are "in season" is a bit troubling. The university invest an awful lot in these athletes, and now the in season athletes will be suspended, I'm guessing, at least 2 games. This hurts their teammates as well. As someone else mentioned, these players have to realize that they are being held to a higher standard, and the punishment for their actions should highlight why. As a scenario: What if it was tourney time, and 3 or 4 of your top players were caught and couldn't participate. You lose the game, and your shot at making the NCAA big dance? The financial hit to your school would be huge. I know it's a stretch, but it certainly could go that way. That's exactly why these schools, who have a lot invested in these players, absolutely have a right to hold them to a higher standard. Another longer lasting byproduct of all of this is that these kids now have a police record. This could affect job opportunities and insurance premiums. It's a shame what happened as I'm sure these were all good kids that just made a bad decision.
Via ValpoWikiLeaks, word is that the house renters told the neighbors to f* off, and did not cooperate with police and enticed them to get a warrant. The cops apparently were going to just break up the party, but things escalated.
Oh crap!
Thank God none of my colleagues here at work saw that story in the Indy Star. That would have been a hard one to live down with all my talk of Valpo having exemplary student athletes compared to Butler, IU, Purdue etc.
Quote from: jack on December 18, 2014, 01:38:10 PM
Quote from: covufan on December 18, 2014, 12:46:26 PM
Quote from: valpopal on December 16, 2014, 03:12:39 PM
Examining the list of students charged, I know quite a few of them, some better than others, and I regard them as good young men and women, usually positive ambassadors for Valparaiso. Paul knows more of them than I do, and he knows them even better; therefore, I want to repeat an interesting point Paul raised that seems worth noting, the fact that more than 100 students were at a party and apprehended by the police, yet all the authorities found was alcohol, and the worst offenses concerned underage drinking. Among all those students, most of whom are athletes, not a single discovery of any kind of drugs and no incident of violence.
I think it is odd that all of those under age were arrested. I don't know about the town versus University problems, except that all towns with universities will have some problems. I lived in Valpo as a young child and attended VU in the 1980's I also had aunts, uncles, and cousins from Valpo the town, as well as VU grads. When I was in school and there was an off campus party that the police had reason to stop and investigate, there were never 100 people in a house that size. Were there some underage people there? Yes. Were they drinking? Yes. The police were there to respond to some complaint - noise usually, but I'm sure parking would have been an issue in last weekends case. The police were not there to make arrests, but to get people to leave and not return, due to the noise.
I don't know all of the situations from last weekend, but I'm sure that not allowing them to enter the house provoked some of the response. It is possible that the Valparaiso Police now have a policy when finding underage people drinking to give them all breathalyzers, and if found with alcohol in their system, to arrest them. Such a policy could be to limit liability - just imagine if they had broken up the party and someone leaving the party was later injured (or worse), or caused damage. The judge could have also advised the officers to use the fullest extent of the law. I'm sure the first officers at the scene wanted their superiors to make such a decision. Other than hiding, it appears there was little resisting arrest. As Tx recalled from his experience, why did the young lady that fell through the ceiling need to hide, especially if she had nothing to drink? If you run, they catch you; if you hide, they find you. Why push/provoke the police?
As valporun has stated, most of these students are good people. I don't envy the coaches nor the administration in coming down with some punishment. In one-on-one situations, most of us would tend to know when a 18-20 year old that we work with on a near daily basis is truly remorseful. Especially when they have been respectful, honest and full of integrity in your dealings with them in the past. I'm sure running, community service and some kind of game suspension will be involved.
Had I been one of the police officers, I think that I would have used the breathalyzer to determine which people of age would be able to drive others home. Those that were under 21 with alcohol on the breathalyzer would have their name taken down, sternly warned that they could have been arrested, and told that in mid May, when their name had not come up again with the Valpo PD, the list would be thrown away. The main thing would be to break up the party and make sure everyone gets home safely.
My guess is, had the two hosting the party have cooperated when the police arrive, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. When you demand a search warrant, the police must call and wake up a judge who will issue it. If I'm that judge, you can bet that inconvenience is going to cost someone some headaches. We've probably all been to campus parties a time or two, and back in the day, they would have just told everyone to go home. Times have changed, the hosts provoked the officers, and there you have it. If you wake up a judge, someone will be getting arrested. The fact that there were so many athletes involved isn't too surprising, but the fact that there were any involved that are "in season" is a bit troubling. The university invest an awful lot in these athletes, and now the in season athletes will be suspended, I'm guessing, at least 2 games. This hurts their teammates as well. As someone else mentioned, these players have to realize that they are being held to a higher standard, and the punishment for their actions should highlight why. As a scenario: What if it was tourney time, and 3 or 4 of your top players were caught and couldn't participate. You lose the game, and your shot at making the NCAA big dance? The financial hit to your school would be huge. I know it's a stretch, but it certainly could go that way. That's exactly why these schools, who have a lot invested in these players, absolutely have a right to hold them to a higher standard. Another longer lasting byproduct of all of this is that these kids now have a police record. This could affect job opportunities and insurance premiums. It's a shame what happened as I'm sure these were all good kids that just made a bad decision.
Understand your point, but there hasn't been any information concerning being drunk, just that they had "consumed". Not making excuses, but if a player had a glass of beer versus being falling down drunk, are different concerns and issues. Only the five basketball players (three female and two male) were there during their season.
Wow, that is quite a discussion that interests me on many levels - as a one-time full-time reporter for the newspaper, as a parent of a college student, as a sports fan and as a native of Valparaiso.
Throwing in my two cents (or more):
1. If a VHS party of 100 kids was busted, there would be more than 45 arrests. Because they would all be underage. And if the person answering the door requests a search warrant, you can bet the cops would round up as many as possible.
2. Most VHS kids are smart enough NOT to attend a party with 100 people in a small house in a residential neighborhood. You're just ASKING for the cops to show up.
3. I hate the "kids will be kids" argument. If you're under 21 and you're caught drinking, tough. Pay the consequence. "But you did the same thing when you were in college." Maybe a couple times, but not very often. And I attended a "party school" in Bloomington. My 19-year-old son who attends IU will not be dumb enough to attend a 100-person party when he is in Valparaiso for Christmas break, I guarantee it.
4. The "divide" between the university and the city is not as bad as it may have been at one time, and it's not as bad as a certain VU professor/sports writer seems to believe.
5. The university needs to just come out with the truth and announce the suspensions (or whatever) for the athletes involved. It's better than rumors and speculation for all involved. No use hiding all week, acting like it didn't happen, and hoping people will forget.
6. The phrase "Drinking Party" has been around for years. It has appeared in the pages of the Times and formerly the Vidette-Messenger since the early 1990s. It is an inevitable phrase that usually appears in the Tuesday Police Blotter. Youthful stupidity and alcohol - a surefire combination to get your name in the arrest column.
Oh, man, a top-ten life highlight was made by the words "drinking party" appearing in the Vidette-Mess' crime notes.
There I found (was an early and voracious reader) the name of a certain babysitter who had recently told my mother she would no longer babysit for me since I was a 'problematic kid'.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/57277503.jpg)
It's also very possible, after the search warrant was requested, that the city of Valparaiso put a 'zero tolerance' policy/law into effect, regardless of who was drinking, athlete or general student. The cops had reasonable cause to put it into effect when the hosts of the party requested the search warrant.
Wouldn't anyone one under 21 who registered anything above 0 be charged with underage consumption? It might make us all feel better to paint a picture that these athletes just stopped by a party to socialize and innocently sip on a beer, but in reality we have no idea how long they had been there or how much they consumed.
If the school doesn't come down hard and swift on these kids (scholarships revoked, public flogging, quartering, etc.), it'll just be a matter of time before they're adults removing tags from their mattresses.
Making light of it certainly won't help either. Is it the end of the world? No. Will this pass? Yes. But consider this. Apparently there was a recruit visiting campus and was at this party along with their freshman sponsor. A high school senior!!!. How does this paint the coaching staff that invited them here? As I said, student athletes MUST be held to a higher standard for very obvious reasons. At the end of the day, some very poor decisions were made by a lot of young people.
Quote from: Vinny on December 18, 2014, 04:22:09 PMIf the school doesn't come down hard and swift on these kids (scholarships revoked, public flogging, quartering, etc.), it'll just be a matter of time before they're adults removing tags from their mattresses.
Exactly what I was thinking. I mean you can never be too careful! This is just like Bill Clinton trying marijuana and not inhaling. I mean it obviously still turned his life into a disaster and if you don't believe me then just ask Fox News!
Will the redshirt Hamnik (sp) be flogged this year or should we wait until next year and feature it in our schedule of halftime entertainments? :deadhorse:
Quote from: jack on December 18, 2014, 06:32:29 PM
Making light of it certainly won't help either. Is it the end of the world? No. Will this pass? Yes. But consider this. Apparently there was a recruit visiting campus and was at this party along with their freshman sponsor. A high school senior!!!. How does this paint the coaching staff that invited them here? As I said, student athletes MUST be held to a higher standard for very obvious reasons. At the end of the day, some very poor decisions were made by a lot of young people.
...and, not to mention that due to the large number of student athletes involved this is getting national publicity. Do a Google search - it's everywhere.
Quote from: wh on December 18, 2014, 06:50:45 PM
Quote from: jack on December 18, 2014, 06:32:29 PM
Making light of it certainly won't help either. Is it the end of the world? No. Will this pass? Yes. But consider this. Apparently there was a recruit visiting campus and was at this party along with their freshman sponsor. A high school senior!!!. How does this paint the coaching staff that invited them here? As I said, student athletes MUST be held to a higher standard for very obvious reasons. At the end of the day, some very poor decisions were made by a lot of young people.
...and, not to mention that due to the large number of student athletes involved this is getting national publicity. Do a Google search - it's everywhere.
It certainly is. I hate it for the kids that are doing the right things and honoring the commitment they made to come to Valpo. I said it was kids making bad decisions. To take it a step further, it was a very selfish decision at that. They never considered how this would affect their school, teammates, and coaches. I am surprised there are some here making light of it. I feel for all who were adversely affected that had no part in it. Getting dragged through the mud for something you had no involvement in is a tough pill to swallow.
Quote from: jack on December 18, 2014, 07:08:06 PM
Quote from: wh on December 18, 2014, 06:50:45 PM
Quote from: jack on December 18, 2014, 06:32:29 PM
Making light of it certainly won't help either. Is it the end of the world? No. Will this pass? Yes. But consider this. Apparently there was a recruit visiting campus and was at this party along with their freshman sponsor. A high school senior!!!. How does this paint the coaching staff that invited them here? As I said, student athletes MUST be held to a higher standard for very obvious reasons. At the end of the day, some very poor decisions were made by a lot of young people.
...and, not to mention that due to the large number of student athletes involved this is getting national publicity. Do a Google search - it's everywhere.
It certainly is. I hate it for the kids that are doing the right things and honoring the commitment they made to come to Valpo. I said it was kids making bad decisions. To take it a step further, it was a very selfish decision at that. They never considered how this would affect their school, teammates, and coaches. I am surprised there are some here making light of it. I feel for all who were adversely affected that had no part in it. Getting dragged through the mud for something you had no involvement in is a tough pill to swallow.
You boys need to learn how to relax!
On the surface with what we now know, the only way this could approach a dragging through the mud national scandal is if some or all of our coaches fail to deal with it appropriately. I have full confidence that the coaches we have selected will find all of the knowable facts and deal fairly with all those athletes involved (even if it means stiffer penalties than for non-athletes).
I am going to interpret this as yet another instance where my ordinary northwest Indiana fan viewpoint might be vastly different than those of you who are more VU-centrically involved.
As I expected, public penalties for Adekoya and Hammink will be two game suspensions. Adekoya now and Hammink when he becomes eligible next fall.
Per Paul Oren
Valparaiso's Jubril Adekoya to be suspended two games for last weekend's minor consumption arrest. Bryce Drew didn't indicate which games.
5:10pm - 18 Dec 14
Shane Hammink will also be suspended two games once he eligible next season.
5:10pm - 18 Dec 14
Even if there was a recruit at the party - and I've yet to read that anywhere else - it doesn't reflect any more poorly on the coaching staff than it does the Man in the Moon. I don't know the coaches personally but I'm sure that him/her didn't invite a high school senior on campus with a kegger as part of the nightly agenda.
College coaches are under enough stress as it is from the million things on their plate. I refuse to hold them responsible for what their players do at midnight on a Saturday.
I can only imagine what's going through Hamnik's mind right now. He came from an SEC school where this stuff was a nightly occurrence.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2014, 07:43:34 PMPerhaps, rather than try to make some utopian 'it's a small world after all' harmony happen, we need to find how best to coexist given that we'll never be 'buddy-buddy', town'n gown...
Just a few observations from my outsider perspective.
VU has only a little outside interaction with the city and virtually none with the rest of northwest Indiana. I have always felt that this isolation has been self imposed. Given the power to do so I think that many that are involved with the university would prefer to pluck up the entire campus and move it to another city, area, state or nation. So you are in the larger northwest Indiana community with very little investment in that community.
Ok so a certain level of isolation is understandable and necessary but how much did any of you out of state grads learn about this part of the state while you were here?
This indifference and discomfort towards northwest Indiana has been yet another of the reasons that VU has drawn poorly from its sports fans.
I know that some of this is just my fatigued ramblings but you should give it some thought and take it for what it is worth.
Michael Osipoff @MichaelOsipoff
Jubril Adekoya issues statement apologizing after weekend arrest for underage drinking. #Valparaiso
5:11 PM - 18 Dec 2014
(I don't know how to show tweets here so I just copied & pasted this here.)
http://bleacherreport.com/valparaiso-basketball (http://bleacherreport.com/valparaiso-basketball)
Not to condone any actions, but it seems like Bryce has made appropriate decisions regarding suspensions. This too shall pass. Before anyone claims the sky to be falling, compare this little incident to those of Tavares Sledge, JT Yoho, Eli Holman, or Kaylon Williams. It's not like this kind of thing doesn't happen at other schools, and at least our guys didn't get behind the wheel or otherwise endanger others.
Also, word on campus is there was not just one, but two underage volleyball recruits involved. No guarantees on verity, but involving minors on the other hand does not make us look the best.
Quote from: Vinny on December 18, 2014, 10:36:56 PMit doesn't reflect any more poorly on the coaching staff than it does the Man in the Moon
I don't think you really know how things work, do you? At least where "things" = "college sports".
Quote from: historyman on December 19, 2014, 02:36:12 AM(I don't know how to show tweets here so I just copied & pasted this here.)
For the record, it's [ t w e e t ] then [ / t w e e t ] (obviously w/o spaces), and in between goes the number of the tweet.
In this case, https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/545717957268361216, you take that long number at the end, and voila:
[tweet]545717957268361216[/tweet]
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 19, 2014, 04:49:24 AM
Quote from: Vinny on December 18, 2014, 10:36:56 PMit doesn't reflect any more poorly on the coaching staff than it does the Man in the Moon
I don't think you really know how things work, do you? At least where "things" = "college sports".
Quote from: historyman on December 19, 2014, 02:36:12 AM(I don't know how to show tweets here so I just copied & pasted this here.)
For the record, it's [ t w e e t ] then [ / t w e e t ] (obviously w/o spaces), and in between goes the number of the tweet.
In this case, https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/545717957268361216, you take that long number at the end, and voila:
[tweet]545717957268361216[/tweet]
This was my point. As for the student athletes, the punishment, and the hype will come and go. All universities battle with these types of situations. The underage recruits is a whole different story. These kids family and school entrusted these kids' well being to The coaching staff and Valpo. The fact that the coaches knew nothing about them attending this party is irrelevant, much like a parent who's child has a friend sleep over and they sneak out and get arrested for something. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the coaches.
So if basketball players get two games what do the 17 football players get?? That's a lot of players!! ???
Quote from: vu72 on December 19, 2014, 07:03:43 AM
So if basketball players get two games what do the 17 football players get?? That's a lot of players!! ???
Were 17 arrested? I was thinking some that were there were of age. I suppose if they were legal, and out of season, there isn't really much that can be done. If the 17 were under aged, then they could spread out the 2 game suspensions with a couple here and there throughout the season.
Quote from: jack on December 19, 2014, 07:12:01 AM
Quote from: vu72 on December 19, 2014, 07:03:43 AM
So if basketball players get two games what do the 17 football players get?? That's a lot of players!! ???
Were 17 arrested? I was thinking some that were there were of age. I suppose if they were legal, and out of season, there isn't really much that can be done. If the 17 were under aged, then they could spread out the 2 game suspensions with a couple here and there throughout the season.
Here is the quote from the article:
Of the 45 arrested, 26 were Valparaiso University athletes, including 17 football players,
Quote from: jack on December 19, 2014, 07:12:01 AM
Quote from: vu72 on December 19, 2014, 07:03:43 AM
So if basketball players get two games what do the 17 football players get?? That's a lot of players!! ???
Were 17 arrested? I was thinking some that were there were of age. I suppose if they were legal, and out of season, there isn't really much that can be done. If the 17 were under aged, then they could spread out the 2 game suspensions with a couple here and there throughout the season.
A 2 game suspension for a basketball player or volleyball player (given a 30 game season) is 6% of the season. Another way to look at it is that, in season, the teams usually play 2 games in a week i.e., 2 games off are the equivalent of a 1 week suspension.
A 2 game suspension for a football player (given an 11 game season) is 18% of a season; for a soccer player (given an 18 game season) 11% of the season. Another way to look at it pretty much for both is that a 1 week suspension includes one game.
I would suggest that the the FB and soccer players would suffer unequal penalties unless a proportional approach is taken. I'd say 2 games for BB and VB and 1 game for FB and soccer. And even there FB and SO wind up getting get hit a smidgeon harder.
Personal Opinion: The kids broke the underage drinking law and they acted contrary to the student code of conduct. They brought unwanted notoriety to the university (I'll reserve my judgment on how the city police handled the matter). That said, as pointed out, nothing more than alcohol was found, there were no altercations nor abusive behavior. I also did not see any public intoxication charges noted. Our kids are good kids. They collectively made poor decisions and I think their behavior at the time and post-bust indicated that they knew they were in the wrong and took responsibility for that lack of judgement. Many lessons were learned that night and these kids are smart enough to recognize that. I hope that the university does not overreact. It's time to move on.
The football players will receive a one game suspension, which likely will be spread among the players over a few games.
Dean and Miller will be suspended for two Women's basketball games each, though they likely will alternate games in their suspensions, especially since the team is already short-handed due to injuries.
Quote from: valpopal on December 19, 2014, 11:25:05 AM
The football players will receive a one game suspension, which likely will be spread among the players over a few games.
Thanks for the clarification Pal.
Quote from: valpopal on December 19, 2014, 12:50:03 PMespecially since the team is already short-handed due to injuries.
Seems to me this is a huge reason you don't mess around at drinking parties during the season. If there were two student athletes that were risking the most it was these two because of the very reason that the team is hurt so much by their absences in the games due to the team being short handed.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 19, 2014, 04:49:24 AMQuote from: historyman on Today at 02:36:12 AM
(I don't know how to show tweets here so I just copied & pasted this here.)
For the record, it's [ t w e e t ] then [ / t w e e t ] (obviously w/o spaces), and in between goes the number of the tweet. In this case, https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/545717957268361216 (https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/545717957268361216), you take that long number at the end, and voila:
Thank you.
Now where did "the number" come from? I don't see it in the tweet.
Quote from: historyman on December 19, 2014, 02:36:12 AM
Michael Osipoff @MichaelOsipoff
Jubril Adekoya issues statement apologizing after weekend arrest for underage drinking. #Valparaiso
5:11 PM - 18 Dec 2014
http://bleacherreport.com/valparaiso-basketball (http://bleacherreport.com/valparaiso-basketball)
So, where's the statement? Facebook?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/488909146876440577/zHXjLjP2.jpeg)
Sometimes your plans don't go the way you figure they will
(http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/279239/slide_279239_2079153_free.gif) (http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/279239/slide_279239_2079410_free.gif) (http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/279239/slide_279239_2079645_free.gif)
It sounds like we lucked out that Peters didn't drink at this party, or wasn't with his GF. From posts I have seen of others that stalk our players on social media ;), Peters and Dean are together.
I doubt we'll see a statement from the Athletics department. That's not this regime's M.O. I asked a former staff member about why they're so hush-hush about personnel matters (injuries/suspensions) and she said it's because coaches don't want other teams to be aware of these things.
Quote from: agibson on December 19, 2014, 06:42:15 PMSo, where's the statement? Facebook?
Paul does quote from it in today's game day piece
Quote
"I sincerely apologize to the university, fans and my teammates for the embarrassing attention I have brought to the program, my family and myself," Adekoya said in a statement released on Thursday evening. "I am so proud to be able to be a part of this university and team. My mistake is inexcusable, and moving forward, I hope others may be able to learn from my actions as I will."
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/crusaders-winding-down-non-conference-play/article_32f50aef-d207-5aca-abc6-3a110fc1d4bb.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/crusaders-winding-down-non-conference-play/article_32f50aef-d207-5aca-abc6-3a110fc1d4bb.html)
But, I'm still curious. Facebook? Some sort of private press release?
Quote from: historyman on December 19, 2014, 05:35:25 PMNow where did "the number" come from? I don't see it in the tweet.
at the end of the web address ("http etc")
I agree completely with HC. #creepy
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nwitimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/valpo-party-busted-face-underage-drinking-charges/article_a6e5667b-dadb-5fb6-9f9e-2e7c156030ca.amp.html
Another one
Quote from: NotBryceDrew on February 18, 2020, 12:47:16 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nwitimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/valpo-party-busted-face-underage-drinking-charges/article_a6e5667b-dadb-5fb6-9f9e-2e7c156030ca.amp.html
Another one
This is being discussed above in "Other Sports"