Now that the Spring Game is behind us, I thought that it might be good to open a thread for general football discussion about the up coming season. As in the past, we'll always try to have game threads as each game comes up on the schedule. And if a major issue surfaces that deserves a separate thread, then let's open that up as well. But this should be a good place to start.
And to start, I have posted a Facebook video entry by the VU FB staff called Call Outs. The first one is with Mark LaBarbera interviewd by Ernest Moore, the DC. MLB reviews the history of Valpo FB among other topics. The FB staff will try to post one each Saturday for a while.
https://www.facebook.com/ernest.moore.54390/videos/1862350937360693/
This just showed up on Twitter. Read about JJ Nunes and his fmily.
[tweet]860873132604874753[/tweet]
Reed Jay's CRU story. Didn't realize he's gone from 180 to 235 in the time he's been at Valpo.
[tweet]865953625444581376[/tweet]
180 to 235 is a boy turning into a man. Good for him for putting in the work necessary to have success. He sounds like the type of guy who is going to be successful at a school like Valpo: a self-motivated, tenacious worker with the proverbial fire burning inside of him.
The choice to play small college ball is definitely not for everyone but the guys who choose to buck the trend and pursue college football for what looks like very little in return end up much, much wealthier in the end. I haven't met a grown man yet in my 11 year professional life who regretted playing small college football--everyone I meet who made that decision would do it all over again in a heart beat.
Cool thing is that a 180# HS linebacker turned himself into a 235# D-I FCS team captain. That's 55 pounds of maturity.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 21, 2017, 07:09:40 PM
Cool thing is that a 180# HS linebacker turned himself into a 235# D-I FCS team captain. That's 55 pounds of maturity.
Yep, when I add 55 pounds it's very little muscle and a lot of immaturity.
(http://cdn.careandgrowth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/immature-533x400.jpg)
Matt Ford who is a recent grad of Lehigh Univ in PA and Coach Dave's alma mater as well has been hired as the new Tight Ends coach. He was an OL at Lehigh. He replaces Coach Caygoz.
Article on Coach Matt Ford:
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2016-17/17438/cecchini-adds-ford-to-staff-as-tight-ends-coach/#.WShcnsa1sZZ
Quote from: VU2624 on May 26, 2017, 11:50:16 AM
Article on Coach Matt Ford:
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2016-17/17438/cecchini-adds-ford-to-staff-as-tight-ends-coach/#.WShcnsa1sZZ
Very young (only 1 year of coaching experience) but he comes from a good program and had a distinguished playing career at Lehigh. The Valpo staff seems to be able to communicate well within itself, so the knowledge transfer and technique sharpening should go well. Hope he is a high energy guy.
Update on 2017 signees.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2016-17/17441/valpo-football-adds-to-2017-recruiting-class/#.WS3zNca1sZZ
48 new; said to be 80 returnees; 110 camp attendees; unhappy news for just short of 20 players.
Tough delemma for both coaches and the kids affected. But I guess that can be attributed to an increasing level of new talent coming in each year. And saying that, it hopefully means we continue on an upward track.
62 - it is me or is this a put up or shut up year for Valpo football? This is year 4 for Cecchini and I think we need to see success, which for Valpo implies a minimum of 5 wins.
Also, start Seewald!
Not sure about a "put up or shut up" year but I certainly would expect 5 wins. Coach C is in his fourth year after inheriting a team that won 2 games in three years. We have won 9 games in three years under this coach including 3 conference wins last year and a win over Butler during his three as coach.
With the number of kids coming in it would seem that finally we will have the depth we've been waiting for.
How many of the 48 make it to...
Campus?
End of training camp?
Back for second season?
Senior Day?
My guesses below in red.
Quote from: Pgmado on May 31, 2017, 12:26:09 PM
How many of the 48 make it to...
Campus? 43
End of training camp? (40 including those injured)
Back for second season? 32
Senior Day? 18
Campus 42
End of training cap 39
back for second season 25
seniors 12
Quote from: VU2624 on May 30, 2017, 05:36:39 PM
Update on 2017 signees.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2016-17/17441/valpo-football-adds-to-2017-recruiting-class/#.WS3zNca1sZZ
48 new; said to be 80 returnees; 110 camp attendees; unhappy news for just short of 20 players.
Looks like the 80 returnees is more like 62. There might be a few returnees and new players not expected in camp due to injuries, but I'm guessing it can only be 2 or 3.
Still, numbers-wise, this is really good for Cecchini and the coaching staff.
My best guess is that we win at Trinity and have a chance in 6 PFL games - Stetson, Campbell, Marist (hopefully someone will share pictures of the Smits twin towers in their VU/Marist attire), Morehead St, Jacksonville, and Butler. Good year = 4 PFL wins. Great year = 5 PFL wins. Unbelievable year = 6 (or more) PFL wins.
Quote from: covufan on May 31, 2017, 03:54:39 PMLooks like the 80 returnees is more like 62. There might be a few returnees and new players not expected in camp due to injuries, but I'm guessing it can only be 2 or 3.
Guess again.
As the commercial says "it's happening sweetheart".
Quote from: VU2624 on May 31, 2017, 05:03:34 PM
Quote from: covufan on May 31, 2017, 03:54:39 PMLooks like the 80 returnees is more like 62. There might be a few returnees and new players not expected in camp due to injuries, but I'm guessing it can only be 2 or 3.
Guess again.
As the commercial says "it's happening sweetheart".
So we should expect 128 to camp?
Quote from: covufan on May 31, 2017, 05:36:51 PMQuote from: VU2624 on May 31, 2017, 05:03:34 PMQuote from: covufan on May 31, 2017, 03:54:39 PMLooks like the 80 returnees is more like 62. There might be a few returnees and new players not expected in camp due to injuries, but I'm guessing it can only be 2 or 3.
Guess again. As the commercial says "it's happening sweetheart".
So we should expect 128 to camp?
No. 110 as coach said. That means 15-20 non invitees from the vets and they've already been told of the situation.
Nice message from Ryan Clarke who will be a senior this upcoming season. One thing he mentions is that 9 of the 27 players from his recruiting class will make it to senior year. Last year's class was 12 of 36. The same ratio. I wonder if this is standard for the other programs in the PFL. What it does is have a lot of underclassmen playing significant time.
https://twitter.com/DaveCecchini/status/871031631863271424
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/344513261570540548/6c176879aa19ddae81f04985c45a33da_normal.jpeg)
Nice job Ryan :thumbsup:
Looks like another coach has moved. Ryan Manalac, per his Twitter, is now the DC at D2 Ohio Dominican. Young coach not surprising he takes this opportunity.
He went down to go up. Not sure that's a good decision.
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 10, 2017, 09:57:36 PMHe went down to go up. Not sure that's a good decision.
He's gone from Mich St to Valpo to Ohio Dominican in the last three years.
He attended Cincinnati. I'll guess he met his wife at Cincinnati. I'll guess his wife's family is from Ohio. He's from Ohio. Coach Caygoz did something similar. Maybe this is a stage in life in which these guys are trying to figure out if this is what they want to do for the rest of their lives and would prefer to figure it out nearer to their roots.
As good an explanation as any. Hope we replace his enthusiasm and energy with a similar type of guy.
https://twitter.com/westfargo/status/877696251201978369
Hopefully we will be more competitive this time.
Still no LBers coach announced. Wonder if they will use current staff. Maybe move Coach Greiner to the position.
I am so ready for football - I think Valpo is going to show improvement with Seewald, and who knows what USC can do this year. Go Valpo and Fight On!
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 06, 2017, 08:38:05 AMI am so ready for football - I think Valpo is going to show improvement with Seewald
You may only get one out of the two.
I am not sure what you meant here.
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 07, 2017, 02:12:54 PM
I am not sure what you meant here.
Pretty sure the inference was that Seewald may not be back, who knows. ???
He was kept out of spring ball due to a shoulder injury which might be a factor in that inference.
Well that stinks. He was looking really good.
Who will start if Seward has his shoulder injury?
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 08, 2017, 07:58:12 PM
Who will start if Se(e)war(l)d has his shoulder injury?
He's not from Concordia-Nebraska and he wasn't the Secretary of State that acquired Alaska.
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 08, 2017, 07:58:12 PMWho will start if Seward has his shoulder injury?
A reasonable assumption is that it would be one of the two QBs mentioned in the Spring Game article:
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2016-17/17341/countdown-to-2017-begins-after-successful-spring-game/#.WWI_3emQyM8
The roster is out. Hughes, a starting safety, is not listed. Penn and Dugan who played a lot at DL and WR are gone as well. Looks like 6 incoming freshmen aren't coming. Finally two of the three Valparaiso High players are gone.
I think Hughes was injured for the Spring game. Maybe it was a career ender. Good player. Too bad.
Some of these guys may have left or been uninvited prior to Spring. I didn't keep that roster.
Dickson, Penn DLs not listed
Reckards, Conway, Orlich, Reitz, Dugan WRs not listed
Crook, Dye, Hughes, Bender DBs not listed
Petrof, O'Brien, Sallis, Thomas, Welch, Farwick LBers not listed
RBs intact with some position changes (Petrie to LBer).
QB intact with Stokes and Clarke moved to other positions.
Didn't have time to go through the OL.
I quickly scanned the stats from last year and other than Dugan, who had 10 catches, and Hughs who has 2 interceptions, the other guys didn't see the field very much. DB Dye, as an example, had 2 tackles the full year.
I think this is just a part of non-scholarship football and certainly a part of D1 football at all levels. At our level guys are getting their brains beat out in practice and never seeing the field. They decide having fun and having more study time is more important once they realize they aren't going pro. At higher levels it is the transfer thing. A player decides getting playing time at Ohio State isn't going to happen and decides Western Michigan isn't as bad as once thought.
The other thing impacting these things is the new guys coming in. The word is out if a new guy has a great reputation and the chance for playing time just got that much worse. Part of life on many levels.
Quote from: VU2624 on July 12, 2017, 12:16:42 AM
I think Hughes was injured for the Spring game. Maybe it was a career ender. Good player. Too bad.
Some of these guys may have left or been uninvited prior to Spring. I didn't keep that roster.
Dickson, Penn DLs not listed
Reckards, Conway, Orlich, Reitz, Dugan WRs not listed
Crook, Dye, Hughes, Bender DBs not listed
Petrof, O'Brien, Sallis, Thomas, Welch, Farwick LBers not listed
RBs intact with some position changes (Petrie to LBer).
QB intact with Stokes and Clarke moved to other positions.
Didn't have time to go through the OL.
Kellan is a big loss for the secondary. Good size (6'2") and had good range at safety.
Quote from: vu72 on July 12, 2017, 09:49:46 AMI quickly scanned the stats from last year and other than Dugan, who had 10 catches, and Hughs who has 2 interceptions, the other guys didn't see the field very much. DB Dye, as an example, had 2 tackles the full year. I think this is just a part of non-scholarship football and certainly a part of D1 football at all levels. At our level guys are getting their brains beat out in practice and never seeing the field. They decide having fun and having more study time is more important once they realize they aren't going pro. At higher levels it is the transfer thing. A player decides getting playing time at Ohio State isn't going to happen and decides Western Michigan isn't as bad as once thought. The other thing impacting these things is the new guys coming in. The word is out if a new guy has a great reputation and the chance for playing time just got that much worse. Part of life on many levels.
Most of these players were going into their second year so it's not surprising they haven't had a chance to get on the field. In fact, from the team's perspective that is a good thing since most teams with a bunch of freshman playing aren't successful (see 2015). A number of them were non invites and didn't make the choice to leave.
As VULB mentions, Hughes is a pretty big loss to the secondary. Not only from a starter's point of view but from a depth point of view. The key will be hanging on to those who are in the 2's and 3's who may end up with the 1's and 2's over the next couple of seasons but aren't there yet. Once some realize that they may not be on the game roster there could be some attrition even if those players have the potential of play at some point.
New LBers coach. Another Lehigh alum.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2017-18/17471/tulcin-added-to-valpo-football-coaching-staff/#.WWfY-OmQyM9
Quote from: VU2624 on July 13, 2017, 03:39:40 PM
New LBers coach. Another Lehigh alum.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2017-18/17471/tulcin-added-to-valpo-football-coaching-staff/#.WWfY-OmQyM9
Knowing Dave, this was well as hought out and the guy will be an immediate asset. Looks like we are morphing into Lehigh West. That ain't a bad thing.
Wecome coach Tulcin.
PFL Preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwmlifi937Y
Wow! Thanks so much for finding that. I don't think I've ever seen more than a small paragraph on each team in a couple of publications let alone a video analysis like that one. :clap: :clap:
Quote from: vu72 on July 18, 2017, 07:39:46 PM
Wow! Thanks so much for finding that. I don't think I've ever seen more than a small paragraph on each team in a couple of publications let alone a video analysis like that one. :clap: :clap:
Second that!
We continue to get no respect and probably well earned. We need to have a breakout year.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2017-18/17478/pioneer-football-league-releases-preseason-poll/#.WXc71IgrLIU
Valpo can't pick up a win vs Davidson this season since they don't play each other and they are unlikely to beat either of the replacements of Marist or Campbell. Dayton and probably Drake are far fetched as well. That leaves Butler which handily beat Valpo last season, Jacksonville which think will be much better this upcoming season with a full year under their new coach running that offense, and MSU as potential victims other than Stetson. If they can't beat Stetson then a reassessment is needed since the coaching timeline is similar.
Cecchini is doing a better job than Carlson, period. That being said, I think a 5 win or more season is a reasonable expectation.
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 25, 2017, 04:13:23 PMCecchini is doing a better job than Carlson, period. That being said, I think a 5 win or more season is a reasonable expectation.
As an expectation I'd agree. As a prognostication at this point I can't.
If you go by wins, losses, engagement and overall outlook, Cecchini is doing a better job. Valpo football under Carlson was a complete train wreck.
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 26, 2017, 10:28:28 AM
If you go by wins, losses, engagement and overall outlook, Cecchini is doing a better job. Valpo football under Carlson was a complete train wreck.
The understatement of the day! Look, he has more wins in his three years than the previous five before him. We haven't had a winning record since 2003. Coach C had more wins last year than Carlson had in his four years at Valpo.
Quote from: vu72 on July 26, 2017, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 26, 2017, 10:28:28 AM
If you go by wins, losses, engagement and overall outlook, Cecchini is doing a better job. Valpo football under Carlson was a complete train wreck.
The understatement of the day! Look, he has more wins in his three years than the previous five before him. We haven't had a winning record since 2003. Coach C had more wins last year than Carlson had in his four years at Valpo.
Quote from: VU2624 on July 25, 2017, 02:58:32 PM
Valpo can't pick up a win vs Davidson this season since they don't play each other and they are unlikely to beat either of the replacements of Marist or Campbell. Dayton and probably Drake are far fetched as well. That leaves Butler which handily beat Valpo last season, Jacksonville which think will be much better this upcoming season with a full year under their new coach running that offense, and MSU as potential victims other than Stetson. If they can't beat Stetson then a reassessment is needed since the coaching timeline is similar.
I concur with both USC and 72 regarding Dave's body of work here at Valpo, and I would add culture change (sometimes the hardest thing to do) to the list of accomplishments. That being said, 2624 also correctly points out that we still may not increase our number of wins this coming season due to a shifting schedule of opponents. My hope, if that comes to be, is that we show an even higher level of competitiveness (i.e., closer scores) in any losses. Regarding a loss to Stetson, I would qualify that observation by looking at how a loss played out, i.e., close loss, solid football with both teams evenly matched OR Stetson blowout with Valpo making a ton of mistakes and poor play calling to match.
Just to clarify my point about reassessment. What I mean is not that Cecchini should or would be under consideration for being replaced. What I meant is that possibly the coordinators would need to be looked at as there would be clear indication on both sides of the ball where there were problems with losses to certain teams.
At this point, looking at the schedule, a win vs Stetson is the only game it should be said is expected within the PFL schedule. Davidson is not on the schedule and I'll be very surprised if Jacksonville isn't a lot better this upcoming season. MSU may be a winable game as well pending on who is under center for them. Keep in mind they will have a 5th year senior (who has played) or redshirt junior taking snaps while Valpo may be lining up with a QB who's never taken a snap in a college game before when the season starts. That's a tremendous advantage. Butler should be winable but should have been last year as well and was a calamity. Dayton and Marist are on the other end of the spectrum in terms of even being competitive with them. Drake appears to be on a higher plane as well. That doesn't mean there's no chance at all to win those games but they would be major upsets. Campbell isn't in the league anymore and will also be a tough game to win.
So, again, if they can't win one or two of the games they should or could win, then some reassessment needs to be done as to why they can't move up the food chain further. On the other hand maybe they surprise me.
Your clarification makes sense and is in line with the 'preparation and play calling' variable. Dave might have to make some tough choices if that is the case.
You bring up the QB "question." That has been a 500 lb. gorilla in the locker room for every season Dave has been here starting with whether Ben would be the starter in year one --who is gonna be the QB? And it always "seems" to come down to a torn/injured labrum or bad knee. Is it something in the water in Valpo?
Despite the QB situation, I expect to see improvement and a 5 win season should be the expectation this year. Sure there are injuries but an indicator of an improving football program is depth. yes, Cecchini is better than Carlson but the football program performance is still below expectations. Valpo this year should be competitive and beat Drake or Butler (or both). If we see blow outs, then a realistic systematic view is required on why Valpo has football.
Yes, Cecchini has been much better than the previous HC. It seems as though Cecchini and the coaching staff have done a decent job in getting players here and playing more than just their freshman year.
The only game that looks like a sure win would be the Trinity game. With the exception of Dayton, we should be competitive in the PFL games. I think we will also pull out wins against Stetson, Campbell and Butler. We should also get one more win against either Marist, Morehead or Jacksonville. I'm expecting five wins and hoping for six! I believe five wins would be our first non-losing PFL (4-4) season in many years.
Quote from: covufan on July 28, 2017, 01:02:24 PM
Yes, Cecchini has been much better than the previous HC. It seems as though Cecchini and the coaching staff have done a decent job in getting players here and playing more than just their freshman year.
The only game that looks like a sure win would be the Trinity game. With the exception of Dayton, we should be competitive in the PFL games. I think we will also pull out wins against Stetson, Campbell and Butler. We should also get one more win against either Marist, Morehead or Jacksonville. I'm expecting five wins and hoping for six! I believe five wins would be our first non-losing PFL (4-4) season in many years.
Not a bad analysis. To me, that is the target. And when we talk about "target" that means injury free and the stars align.
Let us pray. Dear Lord....................
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 28, 2017, 08:48:02 AMDespite the QB situation, I expect to see improvement and a 5 win season should be the expectation this year. Sure there are injuries but an indicator of an improving football program is depth. yes, Cecchini is better than Carlson but the football program performance is still below expectations. Valpo this year should be competitive and beat Drake or Butler (or both). If we see blow outs, then a realistic systematic view is required on why Valpo has football.
There's no doubt that the football program is better under Cecchini than it was under the previous regime. However some of the expecations I see may be a bit far reaching at the moment. Butler? Sure. Drake? Where's that coming from? Drake was 6-2 in the league last year, has about 10 5th year seniors and another 15 true Seniors including their QB while Valpo has 2 5th year seniors and may be starting a red shirt freshman at QB. If that's the expectation then they are unrealistic.
In addition, improvement is going to be incremental. Just because the team doesn't go from complete doormat to challenging to being capable of beating the better teams in the league within a couple of years doesn't mean blow up the program completely. That's just nonsense. Examine the program, find out where it can be made better and implement change.
I think the expectation in terms of number of wins (by some) may be unrealistic as the team would have to win all of their games within their league level "pool" which to me is MSU, Stetson, and Butler plus win another couple of games to get there. They basically lose a potential win by not playing Davidson. I don't see wins vs any of Dayton, Drake or Marist and I doubt they will sneak up on Jacksonville again. I don't know how Campbell plays the season. I'm not sure how their scholarship players factor in to things or even which players will be scholarshipped. They would be a tough win no matter the situation I would assume.
Keep in mind that of the three league wins last year, they were hanging on by a thread in 2 of them (Stetson and Jacksonville) and needed a really good 4 min drive to hold off Davidson. It's not as if they were in control of any of those games. A win is a win but all of those games could have gone in either direction last year. I think being maybe more dominant vs. at least a couple of those teams (Butler beat them handily) plus being more competitive vs teams such as Drake, Marist and Dayton would be moving it forward.
They could be a better team and finish with less wins.
Quote from: VU2624 on July 29, 2017, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 28, 2017, 08:48:02 AMDespite the QB situation, I expect to see improvement and a 5 win season should be the expectation this year. Sure there are injuries but an indicator of an improving football program is depth. yes, Cecchini is better than Carlson but the football program performance is still below expectations. Valpo this year should be competitive and beat Drake or Butler (or both). If we see blow outs, then a realistic systematic view is required on why Valpo has football.
There's no doubt that the football program is better under Cecchini than it was under the previous regime. However some of the expecations I see may be a bit far reaching at the moment. Butler? Sure. Drake? Where's that coming from? Drake was 6-2 in the league last year, has about 10 5th year seniors and another 15 true Seniors including their QB while Valpo has 2 5th year seniors and may be starting a red shirt freshman at QB. If that's the expectation then they are unrealistic.
In addition, improvement is going to be incremental. Just because the team doesn't go from complete doormat to challenging to being capable of beating the better teams in the league within a couple of years doesn't mean blow up the program completely. That's just nonsense. Examine the program, find out where it can be made better and implement change.
I think the expectation in terms of number of wins (by some) may be unrealistic as the team would have to win all of their games within their league level "pool" which to me is MSU, Stetson, and Butler plus win another couple of games to get there. They basically lose a potential win by not playing Davidson. I don't see wins vs any of Dayton, Drake or Marist and I doubt they will sneak up on Jacksonville again. I don't know how Campbell plays the season. I'm not sure how their scholarship players factor in to things or even which players will be scholarshipped. They would be a tough win no matter the situation I would assume.
Keep in mind that of the three league wins last year, they were hanging on by a thread in 2 of them (Stetson and Jacksonville) and needed a really good 4 min drive to hold off Davidson. It's not as if they were in control of any of those games. A win is a win but all of those games could have gone in either direction last year. I think being maybe more dominant vs. at least a couple of those teams (Butler beat them handily) plus being more competitive vs teams such as Drake, Marist and Dayton would be moving it forward.
They could be a better team and finish with less wins.
Where is this starting a red-shirt freshman quarterback talk coming from? If Seewald is injured it happened during the spring which ended April 22. Let's say it happened on the last day. That would leave over four months before the first game. These kids are 18-21. Four months to heal is a long time unless there was some sort of surgery which hasn't been reported. If you have in-depth knowledge please share.
Quote from: vu72 on July 29, 2017, 04:05:22 PM
Quote from: VU2624 on July 29, 2017, 02:38:22 PM
There's no doubt that the football program is better under Cecchini than it was under the previous regime. However, some of the expectations I see may be a bit far reaching at the moment. ........Butler? Sure. Drake? Where's that coming from? Drake was 6-2 in the league last year, has about 10 5th year seniors and another 15 true Seniors including their QB while Valpo has 2 5th year seniors and may be starting a red shirt freshman at QB. If that's the expectation, then they are unrealistic.
Where is this starting a red-shirt freshman quarterback talk coming from? If Seewald is injured it happened during the spring which ended April 22. Let's say it happened on the last day. That would leave over four months before the first game. These kids are 18-21. Four months to heal is a long time unless there was some sort of surgery which hasn't been reported. If you have in-depth knowledge please share.
This is a QB with a shoulder problem. Regardless of when it happened, if it is a labrum injury, I only have to remind us of (1) Dalton Stokes, who suffered one of those and hasn't been the same QB since and has been switched to WR in his senior year and (2) Connor Smith from Perry Meridian, who joined the team for only one season (15-16) with great expectations only to eventually give up the game due to his labrum injury. Hopefully, Jimmy's injury is not as serious as those two.
first of all, it the board sounds as if the season is a downer even before training camp begins.
Second, this is year 4, and progress needs to be seen. A clear inductor of a respectable football program is depth. A 2 or 3 win season is not a successful season going into year 4.
Quote from: vu72 on July 29, 2017, 04:05:22 PMWhere is this starting a red-shirt freshman quarterback talk coming from? If Seewald is injured it happened during the spring which ended April 22. Let's say it happened on the last day. That would leave over four months before the first game. These kids are 18-21. Four months to heal is a long time unless there was some sort of surgery which hasn't been reported. If you have in-depth knowledge please share.
I don't know when the QB suffered the injury. He did not participate in any throwing during spring ball. The info, which admittedly can be wrong, being thrown around was that it was a labrum issue. VULB provided an accurate synopsis of how well labrum injuries work for QBs as in not well. There is a long recovery process assuming there is recovery. Let's hope the info was incorrect.
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 30, 2017, 09:32:18 AMfirst of all, it the board sounds as if the season is a downer even before training camp begins. Second, this is year 4, and progress needs to be seen. A clear inductor of a respectable football program is depth. A 2 or 3 win season is not a successful season going into year 4.
One way they could come up with some depth is retention. I mentioned Drake's upperclassmen. How about a team many think would be in Valpo's wheelhouse in Butler. Butler has around 35 players on their roster who are in at least their 4th year in the program. 5th yr seniors, seniors and RS Jrs. You know how many Valpo has? NINE. One of them is a kicker. Two are former QBs changing positions.
Those two numbers alone, taking who the QB might be out of the equation, is a tremendous advantage for a team over Valpo. When I made my initial comment regarding analyzing the staff, this was also part of it. What are the other schools in the league doing which makes them more successful? It's not just coaching, schemes, etc. It's also more than talent in a lot of cases. The fact that Valpo's kids are consistently going up against squadfuls of teams who field players 2 and 3 years older and with more experience is a tremendous advantage for those teams over Valpo.
Stetson, who lost a lot to graduation, still has more 4+ year players than Valpo with 12. Davidson has 17. So this is an issue that Valpo needs to deal with and, since Dave has mentioned it over the course of his time here....he beat that drum constantly in 2015...I'm sure everyone is aware of the problem. Valpo had 12 four year+ players on the roster last year and I think 9 still had eligibility left. 2 returned. Of the remainder who chose not to return, 5 of them were starters or played a significant portion of the games. Two of them were OL where age and experience probably matter the most other than QB. However, there is hope for the future if not 2017.
When we look to 2018 and beyond, there appears to be only one player (Stokes) who would be a player eligible to return for a 5th season on the current roster. However, here's where maybe things can really start to change. Potentially, for the 2018 season, there could be 30 rostered players in their 4th year (current Jrs and RS SO).
The thing to consider is that class was this staff's first full recruiting class. They lost a lot of the inherited players along the way and maybe that's to be expected. Whatever the cause, they must retain a good deal of the 2018 (season) class and I expect them to.
So, while I may appear down on this particular upcoming season's potential record, I see great potential for a better situation next season. A game roster with many more four year players and a junior or senior QB with some ability will go a long way towards getting the program moving in the right direction. Without it, we'll see improved competitiveness but the same hang in there for a few quarters until they start to wear down against more than half the league schedule.
Well stated.
I might add that many of us, me included, tend to apply criteria based on the "norms" we observe which usually happen to be scholarship FB. That is not reasonable here. We, of course, would have much better retention if our kids were on full rides for 5 years, but $50+K for that additional year is tough in non-scholarship football. True, all PFL teams face somewhat the same challenge to varying degrees, but winning begets winning and the hardest thing in the PFL is get over that initial hump when rebuilding a program. If you read between the lines, 2624 did a great job below of articulating how difficult that is. But once we get over the hump, it will be easier to ride the winning into getting better recruits who we will be able to retain over 4 years.
I may be on to something, maybe not. However, here is what I've observed. Valpo has a bunch of engineering students. This makes sense as a drawing tool given the nationally ranked engineering program. It also makes sense that those students would want to get out of school and move on to highly paid jobs.
So I looked (briefly) at the Butler and Drake rosters and found next to zero engineering majors but also found a fifth year senior majoring in "exploratory major". Huh??? For some reason, either they are not allowing their kids to take summer classes or they are majoring in basket weaving, who knows.
As a high level academic institution Valpo needs to graduate and get employed leaders in many fields. If keeping kids around for six years through weak academics programs or other reasons is a means to a successful football program, then I would settle for middle of the pack. Think Davidson, one of the top academic schools in the country.
Butler and Drake do not have engineering programs, but academically Butler is on par with Valpo overall and Drake does have an outstanding pharmacy school.
Still, a three win season would be a letdown in my opinion.
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 30, 2017, 11:17:58 PMButler and Drake do not have engineering programs, but academically Butler is on par with Valpo overall and Drake does have an outstanding pharmacy school.
In terms of a fix for Valpo, it appears that with the current staffs first full recruiting class that they have at least started a rotation which allows for plenty of 4th year eligible players to be on the roster (the 2018 team). That year will likely include a fair number of 3rd year eligible seniors and it will be interesting to see if they are able to bring them back as 5th year seniors or they depend on very large (40+) recruiting classes to keep the number of seniors on the roster high. The staff hasn't been in this position their first 4 years and that includes the upcoming season.
It would be interesting to know how a school such as Drake is able to come up with as many athletes willing to stretch their education out over 5 years. Maybe they go 12 credits a semester and there is a way of moving the financial aid over 5 years or even just 9 semesters. I don't know.
Davidson doesn't appear to have any redshirts or at least chooses not to list them in that fashion.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2017-18/17487/crusaders-ready-to-begin-2017-fall-camp/#.WX_OlemQyM-
Nice positive article. Thanks be to God they are not bringing back the "Shields Up " slogan.
Quote from: VU2624 on July 31, 2017, 07:45:26 PM
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2017-18/17487/crusaders-ready-to-begin-2017-fall-camp/#.WX_OlemQyM-
Looks like it is time for a new thread. Let's move to a "Fall Camp" thread, ok?
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 30, 2017, 11:17:58 PMStill, a three win season would be a letdown in my opinion.
Truth, in my opinion.
So as we near the end of the football season I took the time to look at Sagarin rankings historically to see how this teams results to date measure up. I went back to 2000.
2000 214
2001 237
2003 211
2004 231
2005 237 (our friends at Butler were last)
2006 239
2007 230
2008 236
2009 245 (last) :(
2010 245 (last) :(
2011 246 (last) :(
2012 245/246
2013 251/252
2014 244
2015 252/253
2016 245
2017 229/254 (best since 2003) :clap:
So we are clearly moving in the right direction. Top 200 should be the ultimate goal (San Diego ranked 164). At the same time I wonder if Davidson will continue to hang in there as we did as they have now finished dead last 4 of the last 6 years and 2nd last one of the other two.
So perhaps the PFL is being underrated. Our representative to the FCS playoffs, San Diego, beat #25 ranked Northern Arizona, 41-10 in the first round. Unfortunately they next play #2 North Dakota State on the road. the good news, if there is any in that matchup, is that San Diego played there last season as well so the crowd noise won't comes as unexpected. Hope they make a game of it.
Yes, good luck USD. Represent the PFL well.
On another, but related note to the Sagarin ratings, Davidson, who was dead last (254 out of 254) and has been the PFL doormat have finally parted ways with Paul Nichols, their HFBC for the last 5 years. Could mean a rejuvenation of this program if the right guy is hired. Or not, depending on administration commitment (and many Davidson posters on the PFL forum are not convinced that will happen). BTW through 11/25 we droppped to #237
USD 149
Drake 219
Dayton 226
Valpo 237
Campbell 239
Jacksonville 244
Marist 249
Morehead 251
Stetson 252
Davidson 254
I saw this on the PFL Fan Board with its cited source. It is for the 2016 season, not last year. I did not verify the figures nor the respectability of the source, but I am passing it along just as interesting information. I also added the FINAL Sagarin 2017 (January 8th) results for comparison. Valpo, while 7th in spending, is 4th in the Sagarin ratings and cracked 230 for the first time in like...... forever.
2016 Expenses-men's teams/football
Davidson $1,868,902.00 (254)
Stetson $1,838,277.00 (250)
San Diego $1,328,169.00 (139)
Jacksoville $1,303,640.00 (222)
Dayton $1,292,135.00 (232)
Marist $1,281,009.00 (243)
Valparaiso $1,108,158.00 (225)
Morehead $1,031,156.00 (247)
Drake $1,028,182.00 (192)
Butler $847,654.00 (227)
source: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/
Surprising that the two worst teams in 2017 spent the most in 2016. Six out spent VU and VU out spent three. Butler's numbers seem out of whack though.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 09, 2018, 03:39:23 PMI saw this on the PFL Fan Board with its cited source. It is for the 2016 season, not last year. I did not verify the figures nor the respectability of the source, but I am passing it along just as interesting information. I also added the FINAL Sagarin 2017 (January 8th) results for comparison. Valpo, while 7th in spending, is 4th in the Sagarin ratings and cracked 230 for the first time in like...... forever. 2016 Expenses-men's teams/football Davidson $1,868,902.00 (254) Stetson $1,838,277.00 (250) San Diego $1,328,169.00 (139) Jacksoville $1,303,640.00 (222) Dayton $1,292,135.00 (232) Marist $1,281,009.00 (243) Valparaiso $1,108,158.00 (225) Morehead $1,031,156.00 (247) Drake $1,028,182.00 (192) Butler $847,654.00 (227) source: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/ Surprising that the two worst teams in 2017 spent the most in 2016. Six out spent VU and VU out spent three. Butler's numbers seem out of whack though.
I don't have the wherewithal to attempt to look this up in the article but was it mentioned how the expenses broke down? What is Davidson spending that, for instance, Valpo isn't?
Quote from: JD24 on February 09, 2018, 09:10:31 PMWhat is Davidson spending that, for instance, Valpo isn't?
Given the relative success rates of their two top programs I would guess that a significant portion of their $1,868,902 football budget has been secretly funneled over to basketball. ;)
Quote from: justducky on February 09, 2018, 09:47:04 PM
Quote from: JD24 on February 09, 2018, 09:10:31 PMWhat is Davidson spending that, for instance, Valpo isn't?
Given the relative success rates of their two top programs I would guess that a significant portion of their $1,868,902 football budget has been secretly funneled over to basketball. ;)
When I posted it, I, too, wondered about the apples and oranges of "expenses" that are considered by each school. For instance, one school might lump stadium maintenance into FB expenses and another might not. I believe, for instance, that Stetson rents a municipal stadium for its games, so that might account for some of their higher expense.
But accuracy of the numbers aside, if you just go with proportion, it is interest8ng that the two weakest programs seemed to have spent the most.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 10, 2018, 10:11:22 AMQuote from: justducky on February 09, 2018, 09:47:04 PMQuote from: JD24 on February 09, 2018, 09:10:31 PMWhat is Davidson spending that, for instance, Valpo isn't?
Given the relative success rates of their two top programs I would guess that a significant portion of their $1,868,902 football budget has been secretly funneled over to basketball. ;)
When I posted it, I, too, wondered about the apples and oranges of "expenses" that are considered by each school. For instance, one school might lump stadium maintenance into FB expenses and another might not. I believe, for instance, that Stetson rents a municipal stadium for its games, so that might account for some of their higher expense. But accuracy of the numbers aside, if you just go with proportion, it is interest8ng that the two weakest programs seemed to have spent the most.
Travel expenses may factor in as well. Beyond Campbell, did Davidson have any bus trips? Stetson just has Jacksonville up the road a bit. I imagine air travel is more expensive.
More interesting info off the PFL board:
This comes out of Drake.
http://pflfan.proboards.com/thread/3144/winning-equal-high-attendance
Drake won seven games and finished second in the PFL last season, yet, Bulldog home attendance was 1,963 per home game last season. That's 10th out of 11 PFL teams. Worst ever for D-I football at Drake. For a school with a winning tradition, a decent stadium and total enrollment of over 5,000 (3164 undergrads) that is causing some concern in Des Moines.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 14, 2018, 09:19:15 AMMore interesting info off the PFL board: This comes out of Drake. http://pflfan.proboards.com/thread/3144/winning-equal-high-attendance Drake won seven games and finished second in the PFL last season, yet, Bulldog home attendance was 1,963 per home game last season. That's 10th out of 11 PFL teams. Worst ever for D-I football at Drake. For a school with a winning tradition, a decent stadium and total enrollment of over 5,000 (3164 undergrads) that is causing some concern in Des Moines.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 14, 2018, 09:19:15 AMMore interesting info off the PFL board: This comes out of Drake. http://pflfan.proboards.com/thread/3144/winning-equal-high-attendance Drake won seven games and finished second in the PFL last season, yet, Bulldog home attendance was 1,963 per home game last season. That's 10th out of 11 PFL teams. Worst ever for D-I football at Drake. For a school with a winning tradition, a decent stadium and total enrollment of over 5,000 (3164 undergrads) that is causing some concern in Des Moines.
Only exacerbated by less than 2000 in a 15,000 capacity facility. Not a good look. Not quite the 5,000 who show up at Franklin field to converse with 40,000 empty seats but still really sticks out.
As a follow-up, here's the PFL 2017 HOME Attendance averages:
Morehead 5,887
Campbell 5,546 (Gone in 2018)
Davidson 3,353
Butler 3,235
Dayton 3,062
Valpo 2,377
Marist 2,289
Drake 2130
USD 2142
JU 2089
Stetson 1,944
Presbyterian 2,320 (Coming in, what, 2020??)
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2017.pdf
Considering our overall W-L record in the past 10 years, we did surprisingly well in 2017. Davidson, for being such a terrible program for so long, drew ~1000 more per game than us. That is amazing.
As far as conferences go, the PFL is ranked #12 among FCS conferences with an average home attendance of 3,088. The only conference with a lower average per home game attendance is the Northeast Conference with 2,633 (and they offer scholarships).
So the PFL just released their Academic Honor Roll and Valpo landed 52 guys on the list. This is behind 5 League teams. The interesting thing about it is the majors listed. Butler, as an example, has 62 players listed and 17 are "undeclared". To me, that means they are still taking intro or elective courses. Valpo on the other hand has 52 listed with only 1 listed as undecided.
Davidson has 47 listed with 27 undeclared.
My guess is that this system of listing players with a GPA of 3.0 during a semester in just a bunch of fluff.
http://www.pioneer-football.org/news/archives/2017/1357/pioneer-football-league-names-585-student-athletes-to-2017-academic-honor-roll/
That 52 beats our 2016 mark of 41. That's pretty positive and says alot for the caliber of players we are attracting. The write up did not say what our previous high record was, but I seem to remember our numbers were always in the 40s. I am always puzzled about Dayton. They always have a truck load of honor role guys (usually 60+). This year it was 71 out of a ~100 man roster. Not too many undeclared and a lot of engineering and finance like us.
Quote from: vu72 on February 20, 2018, 02:35:54 PM
So the PFL just released their Academic Honor Roll and Valpo landed 52 guys on the list. This is behind 5 League teams. The interesting thing about it is the majors listed. Butler, as an example, has 62 players listed and 17 are "undeclared". To me, that means they are still taking intro or elective courses. Valpo on the other hand has 52 listed with only 1 listed as undecided.
Davidson has 47 listed with 27 undeclared.
My guess is that this system of listing players with a GPA of 3.0 during a semester in just a bunch of fluff.
http://www.pioneer-football.org/news/archives/2017/1357/pioneer-football-league-names-585-student-athletes-to-2017-academic-honor-roll/
The "undeclareds" would have to be sophomores that were still deciding on a major, but just hadn't finalized what their academic fit was. I would say 17 isn't bad, but then if you haven't declared a major by the start of sophomore year, you may not finish out four years in four years.
Couple of Phil Steele all conference team members
1st team: 0
2nd team: RB Morgan, OL Schofield, LB Turner, LB Snouffer, K Latsonis, KR Gessinger
I think a Pioneer title and a first round visit to Fargo would be a realistic stretch goal. I expected at least 5 wins last year and they got 6, so I am not on the brown and gold koolaid. Any thoughts?
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 08, 2018, 03:45:29 PM
I think a Pioneer title and a first round visit to Fargo would be a realistic stretch goal. I expected at least 5 wins last year and they got 6, so I am not on the brown and gold koolaid. Any thoughts?
We will need some help, but we don't play San Diego so we have a legitimate chance for a title. We also have Drake at home. As for a visit to Fargo in the first round, San Diego got there in the second round two years in a row!
Will need to go undefeated in the PFL because that is likely what San Diego will do. At that point it will be up to the tie breakers which I will spend the time looking up if it becomes anything near a reality.
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 08, 2018, 03:45:29 PMso I am not on the brown and gold koolaid. Any thoughts?
brown and gold koolaid sounds like a horrible drink actually.
Unfortunately, a first round visit to Fargo probably will not happen since the Bison will probably earn a first round bye.
I saw some pre-season mags at the grocery store recently. I think it was Street & Smith who picked us third behind San Diego and Drake. So we don't play San Diego and have Drake at home. It could be an interesting year!
No s***? Cool!