Do you agree with their starting 5?
https://twitter.com/IndyStarSports/status/926157913755934723
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2017/11/02/building-best-valparaiso-basketball-lineup-past-25-years/815653001/
Bryce Drew (1994-98)
Lubos Barton (1999-02)
Ryan Broekhoff (2009-13)
Alec Peters (2013-17)
Raitis Grafs (1999-03)
Sixth man: Dan Oppland (2002-06)
One guard. Hopefully the opposition is slow and doesn't press!
Quote from: vu72 on November 02, 2017, 05:00:40 PM
One guard. Hopefully the opposition is slow and doesn't press!
I would echo that. We have had some great PGs. This is out of scope, but I go back to Tom Smith and Dick Jones in the late 60s. Since 1992, is there a point guard that deserves to be on this list? Buggs? Dority?
Keith Carter at PG? I think he still should have some eligibility.... 8-)
Not a lot of variety in that lineup. The Keith Carter comment above was fantastic as was the one about opponents being slow and not pressing :lol:
If you went back earlier - what about Mo Smith? What about the small guard form Michigan City - he was really good!
What would be interesting is a list of Valpo basketball folk heroes or duds that played since 1978. There are many during the Tom Smith era.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 02, 2017, 04:52:17 PM
https://twitter.com/IndyStarSports/status/926157913755934723
https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2017/11/02/building-best-valparaiso-basketball-lineup-past-25-years/815653001/
At first glance I thought I was looking at BYU's all time best team. ;)
This lineup is indicative of what basketball has become over the last 20 years.
Guys like LeBron and many Europeans have made the ball handling SF the focal point of the modern game. Guards have been reduced from being the key offensive piece to 3 and D specialists in many systems.
Look at the last few generations at VU. When Huff graduated, we struggled until Broekhoff and later Peters established themselves as scoring threats in the front court. Even though we had some talent at other positions, the 3/stretch 4 has been the key to our success.
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So if you want to have another point guard like Keith Carter and you want a true 5, who do you eliminate between Barton, Broekhoff and Peters? They are arguably the second through fourth best players in Valpo history. The weakest of the five listed in the posting would, in my opinion, be Grafs. As someone often mentioned on this page (and could at least get into the discussion of being on a second five) told me years ago, Grafs had a lot of talent but could have been so much more if he put in the work.
The IndyStar article is decent, but I would have included Carter and Casey Schmidt in the "also considered" and removed Van Wijk.
If I had to make the ideal starting 5:
PG: Keith Carter
SG: Bryce Drew
SF: Ryan Broekhoff
PF: Alec Peters
C: Vashil Fernandez (he'd be the defensive rock)
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 02, 2017, 08:29:52 PMSince 1992, is there a point guard that deserves to be on this list? Buggs? Dority?
How about the career leader in assists? Oh yeah, he is already on the list.
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 03, 2017, 09:10:58 AM
If you went back earlier - what about Mo Smith? What about the small guard form Michigan City - he was really good!
What would be interesting is a list of Valpo basketball folk heroes or duds that played since 1978. There are many during the Tom Smith era.
Was that Tracy Gibson? As for Vashil, Grafs was the second best shot blocker of all time and adds just a little better offense than our guy Vashil.
Choosing the best players and building the best lineup are two completely separate ideas (and it's interesting that the Indy Star in its own tweet contradicted itself) - if choosing the best players, Raitis is definitely ahead of Vashil. But if building the best lineup, with the offensive firepower you already have, I'd probably lean Vashil.
Cory Johnson on the second team? and as for Vashil... find the youtube of the StMarys game at the ARC. watch the domination of the most popular guy on campus.
Quote from: talksalot on November 03, 2017, 02:42:48 PM
Cory Johnson on the second team? and as for Vashil... find the youtube of the StMarys game at the ARC. watch the domination of the most popular guy on campus.
Misunderstood. Didn't realize it was a "popularity" list!
I loved Vashil, but Grafs would have dominated him in a game. I think that the 6 they chose are right on!
I struggle some with putting Oppland and Grafs ahead of Viskovic and Ensminger. Viskovic was very efficient and Ensminger is definitely the best rebounder in the last 25 years.
No love for Brandon Wood?
I'd say his support was spartan at best... but I would not say that out loud.
Quote from: VU75 on November 05, 2017, 08:38:55 PM
No love for Brandon Wood?
Brandon Wood is probably one of the best pure scorers Valpo has ever had but he wasn't the best defender, imo. If I made a All-Time Top 13 roster, he'd definitely be one of my guards in a 13 man lineup. I'd probably ideally bring Brandon off the bench to be that 6th man spark to the offense.
I think the 5 listed are the 5 best players of the last 25 years. I give kudos to the writer.
Quote from: talksalot on November 06, 2017, 11:29:19 AM
I'd say his support was spartan at best... but I would not say that out loud.
Lexus' support would then be stated as boisey?
Some would support Antii to the Finnish...but when you put all the numbers in a matrix, Raitis has better Grafs.
Agree with Chef that this might the right 5. They could have found a better picture of an older stronger Peters.
Notably, the group nearly passes a baton across those 25 years perfectly The only exceptions: Grafs overlaps Barton for three years and no one from 2007 or 2008 rosters made it.
Despite the talent, you might want the poise of Viskuvic in the game with 15 seconds to go instead of Grafs. The guy was rock steady and anchored the fab freshmen in that shockingly good 2002 team of Barton, Tonagel, Stovall, etc.
From seeing Cory Johnson and hearing of Casey Schmidt, you wonder what each could have done in four years.
Regardless of your viewpoint, you have to realize that for a mid-major, we have some tremendous basketball talent among our alumni. Just 1 losing season in the last 23-24 years? Wow!
Quote from: valpotx on November 06, 2017, 10:42:50 PM
Regardless of your viewpoint, you have to realize that for a mid-major, we have some tremendous basketball talent among our alumni. Just 1 losing season in the last 23-24 years? Wow!
Actually, I think there have been three losing seasons in that stretch, though only one losing season in conference. Nevertheless, this is amazing when I recall the celebration on senior night of a winning season in 1993-1994 after 16 straight years of losing records, some as bad as a three-year span (4-24, 5-22, and 5-22) while in a much lesser conference. It has been a long and rewarding ride.
Quote from: valpopal on November 06, 2017, 11:18:42 PM
Quote from: valpotx on November 06, 2017, 10:42:50 PM
Regardless of your viewpoint, you have to realize that for a mid-major, we have some tremendous basketball talent among our alumni. Just 1 losing season in the last 23-24 years? Wow!
Actually, I think there have been three losing seasons in that stretch, though only one losing season in conference. Nevertheless, this is amazing when I recall the celebration on senior night of a winning season in 1993-1994 after 16 straight years of losing records, some as bad as a three-year span (4-24, 5-22, and 5-22) while in a much lesser conference. It has been a long and rewarding ride.
What 3 years? Looking back, I can see 2, which would be 2008-2009 (abnormal transfer and ill-advised pro move) and whenever we went 15-16.
Quote from: talksalot on November 06, 2017, 08:33:04 PM
Some would support Antii to the Finnish...but when you put all the numbers in a matrix, Raitis has better Grafs.
I really think going with Lubos Barton Czechs off many needs for a team.
Antii does hold one NCAA D1 record (though likely unofficial): career drawn lane violations on free throw attempts.
Quote from: valpotx on November 08, 2017, 02:41:44 AM
Quote from: valpopal on November 06, 2017, 11:18:42 PM
Quote from: valpotx on November 06, 2017, 10:42:50 PM
Regardless of your viewpoint, you have to realize that for a mid-major, we have some tremendous basketball talent among our alumni. Just 1 losing season in the last 23-24 years? Wow!
Actually, I think there have been three losing seasons in that stretch, though only one losing season in conference. Nevertheless, this is amazing when I recall the celebration on senior night of a winning season in 1993-1994 after 16 straight years of losing records, some as bad as a three-year span (4-24, 5-22, and 5-22) while in a much lesser conference. It has been a long and rewarding ride.
What 3 years? Looking back, I can see 2, which would be 2008-2009 (abnormal transfer and ill-advised pro move) and whenever we went 15-16.
2004-2005 (15-16), 2008-2009 (9-22), 2009-2010 (15-17)