With the news that Valpo was scheduled to be in the Great Alaska Shootout in 2018 I thought I'd start the 2018-19 schedule thread. Unfortunately the event has been cancelled. These Neutral Site Tournaments are planned out way before they are played. Hopefully Valpo can fill the potential void in the schedule with another tournament or a find some strong Home-&-Home Series opponents.
Next years team looks like its going to be a strong team with a great opportunity with the core of the roster being all Seniors: Joe Burton and Juniors: Sorolla, Fazekas, Golder, Bakari. Most of the team will have a whole year playing together under their belt. Let's hope we can put together a schedule that at least can get Valpo in the At-Large conversation come March if we can take care of business during the regular season.
2017-2018 Games:
-Southern Illinois-Edwardsville - Home
-MVC/MW Challenge - Away
-Ball State - Home
-UC Riverside - Home
*Potential Start to the Series with Vanderbilt (as part of Bryce's buyout)
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/928047477835665411
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/928047695931019264
The more A10 Schools the better and Rice comes from a strong conference and was decent last year. Yes please. If these series start on the road hopefully we can couple a decent winnable game to them as well.
Get a series with TCU! Too bad about the Great Alaska Shootout. That was one of the better memories for our program, when we beat Ohio State, and claimed third place in the tournament while I was in school.
As someone who loves Alaska and wanted to go up there for a shootout sometime in the near future, discovering that we were invited to play, and that the tournament was subsequently cancelled within 140 characters is an emotional roller coaster I just wasn't prepared for.
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Quote from: Dave_2010 on November 08, 2017, 10:21:23 AM
As someone who loves Alaska and wanted to go up there for a shootout sometime in the near future, discovering that we were invited to play, and that the tournament was subsequently cancelled within 140 characters is an emotional roller coaster I just wasn't prepared for.
If you have the opportunity to visit Alaska I recommend you visit sometime its beautiful up there.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 07, 2017, 10:47:06 PMThe more A10 Schools the better and Rice comes from a strong conference and was decent last year. Yes please. If these series start on the road hopefully we can couple a decent winnable game to them as well.
Didn't we have a connection at Rice for a number of years? Wonder if that connection still has ties to Rice?
Would love to go to Houston and watch the Crusaders. Schedule the away game in December or January so the Crusaders can see some sunshine
Quote from: covufan on November 08, 2017, 10:51:13 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 07, 2017, 10:47:06 PMThe more A10 Schools the better and Rice comes from a strong conference and was decent last year. Yes please. If these series start on the road hopefully we can couple a decent winnable game to them as well.
Didn't we have a connection at Rice for a number of years? Wonder if that connection still has ties to Rice?
Do we have any Rice connections? We haven't played them for a while. I know David Chadwick transfer from Rice to Valpo a few years ago.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 07, 2017, 10:47:06 PM
The more A10 Schools the better and Rice comes from a strong conference and was decent last year. Yes please. If these series start on the road hopefully we can couple a decent winnable game to them as well.
My Non-Conference Series Wish-List:-Butler - so far they've been a bunch of cowards. Maybe things change under LaVall
-Any Big East/AAC/Big 10 school - It's a pipe dream but you need to shoot your shot. I'd do a 2 for 1 with the right school
-A10 schools: Dayton (Pioneer League rival), Richmond and VCU would be great series
-Any Indiana school other then IUPUI. I'm lukewarm on IPFW, because we've played them so much in the past.
-Marquette or UWM for the Milwaukee Alumni base (would greatly prefer Marquette but its tough to land those series)
-Maybe a series with Oakland
-Belmont or Murray State (ideally would prefer these 2 as part of MVC expansion)
-West Coast Conference schools - particularly St. Mary's - they don't operate like your typical mid-major. They hardly play H-&-H series with other mids
-Other random schools: UT Arlington Mavericks, Princeton Tigers, Yale Bulldogs, GCU, SLU, Vermont, FGCU, Iona
"Tune-up" Home Game:-Indiana Wesleyan - A NAIA powerhouse and it would actually be interesting because Greg Tonagel is the head coach. I'm not sure this game is realistic because Greg was passed over in the interview process for the Head Coaching gig but we do know Coach Lottich reached out to him to have him be his assistant. If Greg would have taken the assistant job he would have been the obvious promotion if Coach Lottich got hired away down the road. Just my opinion. It would literally be Indiana Wesleyan's Super Bowl playing Valpo.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 08, 2017, 12:17:45 PMQuote from: covufan on Today at 10:51:13 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on November 07, 2017, 10:47:06 PMThe more A10 Schools the better and Rice comes from a strong conference and was decent last year. Yes please. If these series start on the road hopefully we can couple a decent winnable game to them as well.Didn't we have a connection at Rice for a number of years? Wonder if that connection still has ties to Rice?Do we have any Rice connections? We haven't played them for a while. I know David Chadwick transfer from Rice to Valpo a few years ago.
This is who I was thinking of for a Rice connection - spent 18 years as an assistant:
http://www.ustcelts.com/staff.php?staffID=4
Quote from: VU2014 on November 08, 2017, 12:17:45 PM-Maybe a series with Oakland
Quote from: VU2014 on November 08, 2017, 12:17:45 PMor UWM for the Milwaukee Alumni base
You do have to take into consideration that we are being sued by the HL and both Oakland and Milwaukee are members of that conference. I don't think Valpo will be playing any HL teams in any sport for a while until this whole deal finally blows over.
Quote from: bbtds on November 09, 2017, 05:05:05 AM
You do have to take into consideration that we are being sued by the HL and both Oakland and Milwaukee are members of that conference. I don't think Valpo will be playing any HL teams in any sport for a while until this whole deal finally blows over.
Good point. Apparently OU and VU coaches were trying to workout a charity exhibition for this preseason, but we both couldn't get the dates to work. Maybe thats a sign we can work something out.
Milwaukee is probably the trickier one to predict if we could get a series passed by their AD and Admin. It would make sense for both parties to allow a series because I think the UWM vs Valpo game in Milwaukee was their highest attended game if I remember correctly, because of all the VU alumni that were there. I remember watching that game on TV and I pretty much heard the 'Go Valpo 'cheers washed out UWM's own fans during that game. It pretty much sounded like a home game when I streamed it. Not only does it make business sense but it also makes basketball sense for UWM coaches to want to schedule a good Mid-Major. But UWM's admin has been known to make some boneheaded mistakes in the past so I wouldn't be surprised to see them ax a potential series.
I know Murray State's coaches purposely scheduled MVC teams this season to put it's best foot forward for the possible future expansion. Murray scheduled: SIU & Illinois State.
Unlike our counterparts in Indianapolis, I would have been fine continuing to schedule some HL teams in the OOC: preferably Green Bay and Milwaukee (I really don't care about Oakland at all but they'd be okay too... that "rivalry" never did anything for me, personally).
But that was all before the HL sued Valpo. Now, if we schedule any of those teams, we're validating the HL's behavior here. I'm sure Valpo's administration agrees, and I think it'll be a good while before we see any HL teams on the schedule for games that haven't already been contracted.
Felt like a more appropriate place for this convo. So I just copy/pasted into this thread.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 15, 2017, 12:47:41 PM
I don't want to ever play non-D1 schools or schools like Chicago State or SIU-E. RPI is part of it, but the bigger reason is that playing these games adds zero value to the program. People here talk about wanting greater attendance, but the main things that drive attendance are excitement about the program and quality opponents.
However, while this year's non-conference schedule is awful and is unlikely to build as much enthusiasm as it needed to for Valpo's first MVC season, Valpo has done a good job of scheduling in recent years. My hope is that this year's schedule is just an isolated case. I would recommend not providing a return home game for UC-Riverside or SIU-E if better games can be found. And I would never ever schedule Chicago State.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 15, 2017, 01:45:25 PM
If all of these coaches ADs and fans that I've heard over the years constantly complaining about how hard it is to schedule spent less time whining and more time talking to each other to schedule games they would solve so many of their own problems. There's enough quality among the mid major conferences to offer ample opportunities for any legitimate at large contender to build a tournament worthy resume with the few P5 opportunities everyone gets mixed into their schedule. It's a matter of how badly you really want it. Yes the climate is against us and the climb is getting steeper but we at this level still have a choice and some say in how this goes. We can either be afraid of losing to a fellow mid major with tournament aspirations and instead choose to fatten up on games that do nothing; thereby hurting ourselves in the process by weakening our schedules and working against our best interest or we can all man up and play each other and show the Power 5 that we're not going away without a fight no matter what they do. I for one choose to keep fighting in spite of the tough climate and I sincerely hope everyone at Valpo and every Valpo fan is with me on this. Those who aren't and support the status quo (and there are a few on here and a few more that I've talked to in my day to day life) need to really take a look at your mindset because that's a defeatist low-major mindset. And that mindset isn't Valpo. That's not what I was taught being a Crusader was about. I'm not asking Valpo to constantly play unwinnable games against top 10-20 teams and get beaten up on a nightly basis but a few tough tests then some games against quality mid majors so that the schedule is made up of consistent top 150 or above games and no more non-D1s or Sub-250 RPI drags isn't an unreasonable thing to ask, or at least it shouldn't be. A challenging at-large caliber schedule should be the goal every year regardless of where Valpo is projected to finish and we as fans should expect nothing less.
I wouldn't say these first 2 games didn't offer any value.
-Offered 2 easy games to get through the absence with Joe & Jay
-This team needed tune-up games because of all the youth and roster turnover. I'm sure these games actually help the team & coaches to a certain degree.
-Non-D1s don't hurt your RPI ranking and it's better then playing Chicago State and it hurting the RPI
I fully agree they aren't the best games to watch and ideally I'd never like Valpo play them but I understand why they did it. The SIUE game is a little annoying but this is basically a fundraising & alumni engagement game. This one doesn't sound like it was up to the coaches. Everyone has a boss. UC-Riverside is actually performed pretty well in the early going and won games against Cal & Cal-Poly. I've seen some rankings that say they're ranked higher then us. That game might not be as bad as we initially thought.
The schedule itself really isn't that bad from a basketball perspective but the home schedule isn't great. I'm with you that I hope this is a isolated situation. We have Ball State, SIUE, UC-Riverside lined up in the books next year. We already have some home games lined up for next year so that creates an opening to start a series with a solid A10/AAC/MWC/WCC team on the road. Half the battle of scheduling Home-&-Home series is that each team generally wants the first home game. Valpo will probably be in a good position to be willing to play that first game on the road. Hopefully we find some willing opponents. Who knows, maybe Butler will finally be willing to play Valpo, maybe we have to take a 2-for-1 to get that done. Heck I might even be willing to give a 4-for-2 because they're a former in-state rival and they clearly have the leverage. It would be a great series for both teams.
We still have that Vandy series in our back pocket. But that potential game would get a heck of a lot tougher next season because the Vandy staff just landed a "1-&-done" 5-star kid. This would be the season you want to play that Vandy team because they have clear roster flaws this season.
VU2014 - while we disagree on the value of playing vastly inferior opponents, I had no idea that UC-Riverside beat Cal. Even if Cal is down (no idea), that is a heck of a win for UC-Riverside.
I'm starting to think that that Vandy series may never get played and Valpo will be forced to take Vandys money. If Bryce continues to succeed on the court and on the recruiting front schools even larger and more prominent than Vanderbilt are going to start calling. If he leaves the deal's off I'm sure of that. I mean it's been two years now and there's been no hint of that series being anywhere close to starting. I can't help but lose hope that it ever will and it'll be more P5 BS weaseling out of their agreements just like what happened with Loyola when NC State stood them up on a return game this offseason.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 15, 2017, 02:18:20 PM
I'm starting to think that that Vandy series may never get played and Valpo will be forced to take Vandys money. If Bryce continues to succeed on the court and on the recruiting front schools even larger and more prominent than Vanderbilt are going to start calling. If he leaves the deal's off I'm sure of that. I mean it's been two years now and there's been no hint of that series being anywhere close to starting. I can't help but lose hope that it ever will and it'll be more P5 BS weaseling out of their agreements just like what happened with Loyola when NC State stood them up on a return game this offseason.
I hope that series gets figured out. That would be a huge $ maker for the Athletics Department and an electric environment to have Bryce back in the ARC on the opposing side. Not to mention that might be a game that's big enough to get on ESPN2 depending on the programing that day. Its also a great RPI boost game.
I think Bryce is pretty much entrenched at Vandy unless there is a Top 10 job that comes calling. I sort of see Bryce remaining there because it fits the rumor of what he was potentially looking for while he was still a VU: a southern private school (his wife is from the south and she apparently wanted to be closer to her family). But it's tough to predict those things. They may not be the best this season because they're in a bit of a reload mode at least for this season.
Battle 4 Atlantis already named its field for 2018. Valpo was scheduled to play in the 2018 Great Alaska Shootout but they decided to cancel the tournament. These things are planned out well ahead time so I'm hoping we can find a new neutral site tournament if someone drops out of their spot maybe we can take their spot. Or hopefully we can get a strong Home-&-Home matchup.
https://twitter.com/atlantisbahamas/status/934229842945560577
do we know who else was scheduled for the GAS? Maybe we can pool our resources and have a "Battle for the Dunes"...
Good idea. :)
Pretty nice field they assembled from 7 of the top conferences. Middle Tennessee must have an inside track somewhere.
The Great Alaska ShootOut would have given you about 3 hours of daylight to explore the sites at that time of year.
Idea for a tournament: Valpo rents the United Center or Allstate Arena for a weekend and creates their own hosted tournament Call it the Lakeshore Invitational or something With Valpo as a upper level mid major to draw schools you're sure to get other mid majors or some P5/BE schools with recruiting interests in Chicago and the suburbs to sign on to play plus it's close enough to have a strong fan contingent at the games Valpo beefs up their schedule maybe scores some extra TV dates and hopefully a few more quality wins I had an idea of a P5 vs MM event for each state similar to the Hy-Vee out in Iowa
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 27, 2017, 12:36:49 PM
Idea for a tournament: Valpo rents the United Center or Allstate Arena for a weekend and creates their own hosted tournament Call it the Lakeshore Invitational or something With Valpo as a upper level mid major to draw schools you're sure to get other mid majors or some P5/BE schools with recruiting interests in Chicago and the suburbs to sign on to play plus it's close enough to have a strong fan contingent at the games Valpo beefs up their schedule maybe scores some extra TV dates and hopefully a few more quality wins I had an idea of a P5 vs MM event for each state similar to the Hy-Vee out in Iowa
Interesting idea, though WOW that's got some holes.
VU Hires someone for $50,000/year to facilitate and organize. Either that or sub out the work, still nearly that much.
VU pays $75,000/day to rent UC. Conceivably $225,000 for a long weekend.
And I'm not even including other large expenses and we are near $300,000.
What's the payout for NCAAM ROUND of 64 qualification? After the league re-distributes? Does that justify spend of upwards of $500,000 once the dust settles?
Maybe I'm just having a bad day....but I don't see that having the wings to take off.
I don't know to what degree some sort of corporate sponsorship deal could work to defray a portion of the costs I could see a sponsor willing to help us pay for the building rental if we can attract good enough teams I could see a sponsor willing to pay a couple hundred grand for the rights In addition attracting good enough teams could lead to broadcasting on major networks further offsetting the costs Valpo may not profit from this directly but they would get a major branding win and the increased shot at an at large bid also means more branding and money The idea has holes but I think it just might have enough to work as well Many teams would like the opportunity to play in Chicago where local recruiting prospects from that rich talent pool can watch them
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 27, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
I don't know to what degree some sort of corporate sponsorship deal could work to defray a portion of the costs I could see a sponsor willing to help us pay for the building rental if we can attract good enough teams I could see a sponsor willing to pay a couple hundred grand for the rights In addition attracting good enough teams could lead to broadcasting on major networks further offsetting the costs Valpo may not profit from this directly but they would get a major branding win and the increased shot at an at large bid also means more branding and money The idea has holes but I think it just might have enough to work as well Many teams would like the opportunity to play in Chicago where local recruiting prospects from that rich talent pool can watch them
I like this idea! :thumbsup:
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 27, 2017, 02:11:07 PMI don't know to what degree some sort of corporate sponsorship deal could work to defray a portion of the costs
Reading the Alaska-Anchorage "reasoning" page... it was several hundred thousand in the red every year with the costs borne to the Athletics Department, and that's after the TV rights and other sponsorships....
You knock your expenses wayyyyy down by hosting it on campus.... I re-ask: Do we know who the others schools are/were?
Valpo will never put on a non-conference tourney themselves. We'd never recoup our investment. Our Admin would be better served investing money in facility improvements then taking a moon-shot on hosting a tournament. There is a reason why generally cities and resorts host these events. They aren't looking to generate a direct profit from these events, but they host them because the surrounding area get an economic boost from the tourists and it's also a nice advertisement for the area. I like the outside the box thinking but probably not realistic.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/935668598546354176
I put this in the category of pipe dream, but was still wondering about other thoughts,
To help with scheduling issues, and to drum up some excitement and attendance in some new areas of the country, what if the NCAA did something like this:
Divide all Div I teams into two categories - home and away. Each team would alternate each year between home and away status. Then have the away teams (figuratively) each draw from a hat containing the names of the home teams. Then, on a given weekend (e.g., first weekend in December while students are in town), have the away teams play at whichever team location they drew. For example, if VU draws Gonzaga, then VU is going to Spokane for that weekend. On the other hand, if NC draws Valpo, then NC is coming to VU.
Obviously, this would be a boon for a few lucky low majors. They would have the chance of having teams like Kentucky and Duke come to their home gym. However, what's in it for Kentucky or Duke in that circumstance? Not much, other than a packed house and helping the low major generate interest. On the other hand, it also helps bad teams in P5 conferences schedule good teams in P5 conferences that might not otherwise go there. (For example, I don't see Kentucky going to Lincoln, NE anytime soon) But again, for the Cornhuskers, it helps ease scheduling difficulties, and generates interest when they get a lucky draw. Just looking at the numbers, most of the 160 something games would probably simply be between two low or mid major teams who don't do anything for each other.
For me, it is simply a way of getting well known programs into new venues in order to generate excitement for the game.
I predict most comments to this concept being something like "will never happen", and I understand that, but is there a way to modify it to make it more attractive to the blue chip programs and to the lesser P5 programs who fear getting thumped at good mid majors?
Barring any major shocks to our program I would expect us to to be a 18-19 preseason top 50 team. With that in mind we could receive the strongest MWC home (road for us) opponent (UNLV?). That would be a good start but who else will we play?
No Great Alaska Shootout? What are the alternatives. We will need some good neutral site games. Has anybody looked at the Northern Iowa OOC schedule? One of the best in the country. That is the road we should travel.
But will anybody be willing to play us? Good question. Call in every favor and play any great team that can give us a date.
OOC home games? Well planning two years in advance we have managed SIUE and Cal Riverside coming to the ARC. If that is the best we can do then maybe we don't need any more.
Non D-1 opponents so they do not hurt our RPI? Oh please!!! They provide no competitive benefit and draw no fan interest.
Lets be prepared to take our 18-19 OOC show on the road. Then we can pack the ARC for conference play!
We are past the stage where we should be playing non-D1s. Teams on the level of SIUE and UC-Riverside can be our "tune up " games now for awhile. If we can't beat those schools we're not an at-large caliber team. Wasting precious OOC home slots on non-D1s to protect our RPI is counterproductive and something an unambitious university that thinks small would do. That's not Valpo, or at least it shouldn't be. Win those games and any "damage" to your RPI will self-correct as you keep winning. Why are we treating SOS like it's not as important? (And again when I say this I don't mean play the top 15 in RPI and lose every game) There's no reason for us not to expect consistent quality opponents ranging from around 40-130 in RPI. These are challenging yet winnable games for a program like ours and we should be able to start many H and H series with teams in this range. We should be looking at UNI as a template for the kind of program we'd like to become in all sports, and I believe that this goal is eminently achievable. I just hope the administration, MLB, and the rest of the fanbase feels the same way. Let us not strive simply for good enough, let us make every possible endeavor to be great, not just in basketball but across the board. Go Valpo!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 01, 2017, 01:09:41 AM
We are past the stage where we should be playing non-D1s. Teams on the level of SIUE and UC-Riverside can be our "tune up " games now for awhile. If we can't beat those schools we're not an at-large caliber team. Wasting precious OOC home slots on non-D1s to protect our RPI is counterproductive and something an unambitious university that thinks small would do. That's not Valpo, or at least it shouldn't be. Win those games and any "damage" to your RPI will self-correct as you keep winning. Why are we treating SOS like it's not as important? (And again when I say this I don't mean play the top 15 in RPI and lose every game) There's no reason for us not to expect consistent quality opponents ranging from around 40-130 in RPI. These are challenging yet winnable games for a program like ours and we should be able to start many H and H series with teams in this range. We should be looking at UNI as a template for the kind of program we'd like to become in all sports, and I believe that this goal is eminently achievable. I just hope the administration, MLB, and the rest of the fanbase feels the same way. Let us not strive simply for good enough, let us make every possible endeavor to be great, not just in basketball but across the board. Go Valpo!
Sounds like you have it all figured out. I understand how annoying non D1's are during the regular season. But I have no issue here, I'd rather not play inferior D1's that smash our rankings. Chicago State caliber teams shouldn't be on our regular season schedule where it counts. (Exhibition this year)
BUT I'D ALSO LIKE TO HAVE THOSE (2) HOME GAMES TO START THE SEASON.
Unless you are prepared to bring in those top 140 RPI teams into the ARC then I have no interest in your rant.
P.S. I've heard scheduling is a _______. But maybe you can volunteer your time and be our savior.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 01, 2017, 04:53:57 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 01, 2017, 01:09:41 AM
We are past the stage where we should be playing non-D1s. Teams on the level of SIUE and UC-Riverside can be our "tune up " games now for awhile. If we can't beat those schools we're not an at-large caliber team. Wasting precious OOC home slots on non-D1s to protect our RPI is counterproductive and something an unambitious university that thinks small would do. That's not Valpo, or at least it shouldn't be. Win those games and any "damage" to your RPI will self-correct as you keep winning. Why are we treating SOS like it's not as important? (And again when I say this I don't mean play the top 15 in RPI and lose every game) There's no reason for us not to expect consistent quality opponents ranging from around 40-130 in RPI. These are challenging yet winnable games for a program like ours and we should be able to start many H and H series with teams in this range. We should be looking at UNI as a template for the kind of program we'd like to become in all sports, and I believe that this goal is eminently achievable. I just hope the administration, MLB, and the rest of the fanbase feels the same way. Let us not strive simply for good enough, let us make every possible endeavor to be great, not just in basketball but across the board. Go Valpo!
Sounds like you have it all figured out. I understand how annoying non D1's are during the regular season. But I have no issue here, I'd rather not play inferior D1's that smash our rankings. Chicago State caliber teams shouldn't be on our regular season schedule where it counts. (Exhibition this year)
BUT I'D ALSO LIKE TO HAVE THOSE (2) HOME GAMES TO START THE SEASON.
Unless you are prepared to bring in those top 140 RPI teams into the ARC then I have no interest in your rant.
P.S. I've heard scheduling is a _______. But maybe you can volunteer your time and be our savior.
VUgrad1314, sorry, that last message isn't directed at you. I know that you are new to the forum. It's just been one of a handful of topics that seem to be posted ad nauseaum. And I wanted to emphasize the difficulty of scheduling in general.
If we chase these Top 140 teams then we are at the whim of the other teams schedules. And the minute that it becomes (2) more weekday games away from the ARC then before the ink dries we get "geez the home game schedule stinks this year".
I greatly appreciate your enthusiasm, ignore by grumpy nature. I'm in the minority, most posters are far more optimistic. I'm just the logic driven type.
Dreaming only happens in my dystopian novels!
I understand that scheduling is difficult and I don't want my posts on this topic to be viewed as overly critical. They're not (or at least they're not meant to be). I think our athletics department is doing a phenomenal job raising the profile of Valpo athletics and I am extremely grateful to them for their efforts. That they have guided us from the mid con to the MVC in just 10 years is simply amazing. I think most who post here would agree with that. The level this program has reached is something I wouldn't have even dreamed about as a kid but yet here we are. I just think there's more untapped potential yet in this program and perhaps even greater heights to reach and aspire to. I think even the athletic department would agree that we're not at our ceiling as a program and that success in the MVC and in the postseason like many MVC teams have enjoyed is attainable.
As for scheduling I don't think it would be too terribly difficult to schedule teams in this range from conferences similar to ours. I think we're all getting the message that except for realignment this is our best chance to break through the wall the P5 have erected to bar entry to the tournament. Here are some examples of quality mids playing each other:
Illinois State @BYU
FGCU vs Mid Tenn
MOST vs WKU
UNI vs UT-Arlington
FGCU vs UT-Arlington
Murray State plays multiple MVC teams per year and recently played us
Princeton vs BYU
Valpo vs Belmont home and home
Valpo vs URI
These are just a few examples not from tournaments It's possible to get these games and these conferences I'm sure all realize that we need more of them. I think we will see more of this kind of scheduling in the future and hopefully Valpo will be heavily involved.
The fact is what we saw happen to Murray State in 2015 To us and Monmouth in 2016 and to Illinois State in 2017 is truly painful and I want to see schools like ours band together and fight so that such indignity never happens again. That's why I'm so passionate about this.
Short term solution....
Since the Great Alaska Shootout was canceled, we might as well try to start some home and aways with those schools who were supposed to attend. Anybody heard any rumors on who was planning on going up there?
Long term solutions...
Are more complicated, and I didn't sleep well last night.
Would love to see this happen one day. It would be so much better of an event to include more schools.
https://twitter.com/Big__Shawn23/status/937379674115706881
Quote from: VU2014 on December 03, 2017, 03:56:25 PM
Would love to see this happen one day. It would be so much better of an event to include more schools.
https://twitter.com/Big__Shawn23/status/937379674115706881
Poor Uoowee Poowee. Disrespected again :(
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 03, 2017, 04:05:35 PM
Poor Uoowee Poowee. Disrespected again :(
Uoowee Poowee could be in a tournament with all of the Indiana D2 schools. ;) I'm sure they'd have some epic battles with Southern Indiana ;D
I had this same thought but why is Ball State not on this list?
No clue. But I was thinking same thing. Swap IPFW with Ball State and it becomes a better tournament, imo. Play the opening rounds on campuses and then play the semi/finals at the Banker's Life. It would be the best tournament in the sport. But unfortunately I'm not sure the "big 4" would agree to it. They want to keep it "exclusive" and don't want to risk the optics of losing to good mid-major programs on a neutral court.
Can't be a tourney. WAY too much conference overlap and no one's gonna give up their home game. You've got 2 Big 10 teams and 3 MVC teams This would have to be 2 4 team pods with one MVC school left out each year
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 04:59:35 PM
Can't be a tourney. WAY too much conference overlap and no one's gonna give up their home game. You've got 2 Big 10 teams and 3 MVC teams This would have to be 2 4 team pods with one MVC school left out each year
OTOH. This could be a ground breaking endeavor that changes the face of basketball.
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 03, 2017, 07:53:44 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 04:59:35 PM
Can't be a tourney. WAY too much conference overlap and no one's gonna give up their home game. You've got 2 Big 10 teams and 3 MVC teams This would have to be 2 4 team pods with one MVC school left out each year
OTOH. This could be a ground breaking endeavor that changes the face of basketball.
What do you mean? Please elaborate
Is there a state that has put together an inclusive D-I BB tournament like this? This is Indiana, the hotbed of basketball.
Iowa has something close with the Hy-Vee which I personally think should be expanded to a round robin where both Iowa and Iowa State play both Drake and UNI and then each other.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on December 01, 2017, 07:03:52 AMAre more complicated, and I didn't sleep well last night.
Maybe your poster name should be SleepLost17.
You're a Valpo fan so I know you have your sanity. :P
Paul, when can we expect your next insightful podcast!?!?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 04, 2017, 06:34:27 PM
Paul, when can we expect your next insightful podcast!?!?
Hoping tomorrow.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 03, 2017, 03:56:25 PM
Would love to see this happen one day. It would be so much better of an event to include more schools.
https://twitter.com/Big__Shawn23/status/937379674115706881
VU2014 nailed it ... involving more schools would be SO much better then current boring format.
Twice as many schools = twice as much revenue from tickets and TV rights. Someone should write an article suggesting this. I'd also think that Valpo's coaches, AD and President should be working to make this happen.
I also hope the MVC is working on another conference challenge series ... maybe with the A-10, AAC or even the MAC. The league should be focused on helping teams get better games so the number of non-DI games can be reduced.
https://twitter.com/indianahoopscom/status/938230267193516032
https://twitter.com/Eric_RaceReview/status/938260351031894016
Possible landing spot for the teams cast adrift by the decision to discontinue the Great Alaska Shootout?
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/944285943376179200
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 04, 2017, 08:14:22 PMI also hope the MVC is working on another conference challenge series ... maybe with the A-10, AAC or even the MAC. The league should be focused on helping teams get better games so the number of non-DI games can be reduced.
I'm for all three of these. This kind of scheduling is the best way forward for mid majors and gives the committee a clearer picture of which mids truly deserve bids come March.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 28, 2017, 12:36:46 AM
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 04, 2017, 08:14:22 PMI also hope the MVC is working on another conference challenge series ... maybe with the A-10, AAC or even the MAC. The league should be focused on helping teams get better games so the number of non-DI games can be reduced.
I'm for all three of these. This kind of scheduling is the best way forward for mid majors and gives the committee a clearer picture of which mids truly deserve bids come March.
I'd definitely be for a another conference challenge with the A10 & AAC. I'm sure the MVC would be too but I'm not sure the A10 or AAC would be for it though. The MAC I wouldn't be quite as excited about. The MAC isn't a very deep conference.
The A10 vs MVC Challenge probably makes the most sense on paper for both sides, imo.
Agreed vu2014. also note that Chicagoland is not a popular place for college basketball and attendance will be weak.
Paul Oren mentioned on Union Street Hoops that Oral Roberts might be on the schedule the near future. The ORU vs VU rivalry was a bit before my time but I know some have mentioned it use to be the big rivalry back in the day. I know this will probably excite lots of the longtime fans but tbh it wouldn't do much for me, because I never experienced those games and they haven't been a strong team in recent history (but they caught MSU & FGCU sleeping this season. They play a reallytough schedule this season.).
Oral Roberts Kenpom Rankings (RPI):
2017-2018: 193 (155) Record: 6-11
2016-2017: 236 (292) Record: 6-22
2015-2016: 174 (151) Record: 12-17
2014-2015: 206 (163) Record: 16-14
2013-2014: 188 (170) Record: 15-16
http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-valpo-in-the-valley/audio_330854a0-f25d-11e7-8289-e74843b07c14.html
Quote from: VU2014 on January 05, 2018, 09:21:48 PM
Paul Oren mentioned on Union Street Hoops that Oral Roberts might be on the schedule the near future. The ORU vs VU rivalry was a bit before my time but I know some have mentioned it use to be the big rivalry back in the day. I know this will probably excite lots of the longtime fans but tbh it wouldn't do much for me, because I never experienced those games and they haven't been a strong team in recent history (but they caught MSU & FGCU sleeping this season. They play a reallytough schedule this season.).
Oral Roberts Kenpom Rankings (RPI):
2017-2018: 193 (155) Record: 6-11
2016-2017: 236 (292) Record: 6-22
2015-2016: 174 (151) Record: 12-17
2014-2015: 206 (163) Record: 16-14
2013-2014: 188 (170) Record: 15-16
http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-valpo-in-the-valley/audio_330854a0-f25d-11e7-8289-e74843b07c14.html
Doesn't excite me either, and I was at VU 2001-2005 during the Mid Con days.
However, I'm not obsessed with RPI and all these rankings. Win in the MVC and don't play all cupcakes. That's all I ask for, because at-large is a joke for most all Mid major programs in the country. And it's certainly becoming more of a joke these last several years.
After Ken Tutt and Caleb Green graduated from ORU, the program went downhill, and Richard Roberts didn't help the school in recent years either. I'd prefer to leave this old rivalry in the past. It wouldn't be a good one for Valpo, considering what the Summit League is as a conference.
The Summit League is #13 in conference RPI right now. They are better than the HL. I would welcome this game, but would prefer it for baseball reasons, instead :)
IU just dropped out of the 2018 Jimmy V Classic...
https://twitter.com/ZachOsterman/status/955919925587013633
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/940672350294626305
https://twitter.com/WVUblue_gold/status/940711827020894208
Hey ESPN,
(https://i.imgur.com/GhVa3hg.gif)
https://espnevents.com/jimmy-v-classic/mens-matchup/
The Loyola run already has me excited for 18-19 and 19-20. Barring some unpleasant surprise I don't see us being out of MVC championship contention in either season.
Obviously we need solid opponents and a few home games. Cal Riverside and SIU-Edwardsville might be slightly better than non D-1 but not by much. I doubt that either will draw 2600 fans even on a weekend. What are our prospects for an appropriate, respectable OOC SOS at this point?
Shouldn't our poor record entice top 100 RPI teams to gamble on scheduling us for an "easy" win?
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 18, 2018, 04:38:48 PM
Shouldn't our poor record entice top 100 RPI teams to gamble on scheduling us for an "easy" win?
Maybe for a Power Conference buy games but I don't think it will help us land Home and homes, particularly with good mid-majors. I hope we land a h-&-h with a quality A10 team or MWC team. It seems less likely that the Big East or AAC will do many Home-&-homes with mid-majors these days.
We have a series with Oral Roberts coming up. We also have the Vandy series up our sleeve but they've been pretty tight lipped about when that will start. I have a hunch it will start this upcoming season. Vandy will have two Top 10 recruits and potentially 3 if Romeo Langford commits to Vandy.
If I had to guess we'd play in buy game or 2 this season.
Potential OOC Schedule:-Southern Illinois-Edwardsville - Home
-MVC/MW Challenge - Away (one of: Air Force, Colorado State, San Jose State, UNLV)
-Ball State - Home
-UC Riverside - Home
-Oral Roberts
-Buy game (?) - Away
*Potential Start to the Series with Vanderbilt
I've heard pretty strong rumors that we'll be playing GW this year to start a series.
Some very interesting similarities between GW and Valpo the last few seasons:
- Both teams haven't returned to the high points they were at in the 2015-16 season where they met in the NIT finals
-After that season both coaches left their teams (for different reasons)
-After their previous coaches left the teams after the NIT runs, both schools hired former assistants from within the program: Matt Lottich and
Maurice Joseph
-Both teams returned their stars players for the 2016-17 seasons: Alec Peters (Valpo) and George Washington (Tyler Cavanaugh) and the teams had solid but not great seasons last year. Valpo 24-9 (14-4) GW 20-15 (10-8)
-Both were in somewhat of rebuild mode this season 17-18: Valpo 15-17 (6-12) and GW 15-18 (7-11)
Solid series and one with some interesting recent history that the Programs could sell to their fans.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 18, 2018, 07:48:33 PM
I've heard pretty strong rumors that we'll be playing GW this year to start a series.
Would we be playing in DC next year or the year after?
I don't know the answer to that, unfortunately.
I'd think we'd be in a position to give GW the first home game with all the home games we already have lined up next season. If we were playing in DC next season it could potentially make for some interesting options if we make it an extended road trip over a break (ex: California road trip this season). There are a lot of great basketball schools on the east coast.
I like the potential GW series. I would decline the return home game against SIU-E. I can think of mid-majors I would much rather have a series with than Oral Roberts...but OK.
Overall, the home non-conference schedule needs major improvement from this season that just ended.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 18, 2018, 07:12:06 PMPotential OOC Schedule:
-Southern Illinois-Edwardsville - Home
-MVC/MW Challenge - Away (one of: Air Force, Colorado State, San Jose State, UNLV)
-Ball State - Home
-UC Riverside - Home
-Oral Roberts
-Buy game (?) - Away
*Potential Start to the Series with Vanderbilt
A glance at the MWC final standings shows that UNLV was 7'th, Utah St 8'th, Air Force 9th, Colorado St 10th and San Jose St 11'th. All 5 of these teams played Challenge road games and will host if they play in 2018. Fresno St at 5th did not participate and I don't know how their idle team will be determined. If they loosely match up teams on this years records then we would likely visit San Jose St, Colorado St, or Air Force. If they try to evenly match up expected strength teams then UNLV (or Fresno St) might be our destination.
I think it is interesting that VU, Northern Iowa, SIU and Ind St should all be taking solid teams on the road against what look like beatable opponents. Might Nevada travel to Loyola? :thumbsup: Will Boise St visit the redbirds? Who will Bradley host? Could it be New Mexico?
QuoteMight Nevada travel to Loyola?
Unless the MWC and MVC are run by complete fools, I'd almost guarantee you that you'll see a Nevada/Loyola matchup, even if they have to alter the home/road rotation schedule to make it happen. Hell, TV will likely dictate that.
I've heard that we'll have at least two games against Elite Eight teams!
(Nevada vs Loyola) + (Colorado State vs Drake) + (UNLV vs Valpo) = Great TV and a great Ricky Nolasco story ;)
Make it happen MVC and MWC!
I forgot to share this. Paul Oren mentioned the other day that Valpo has a chance to play one of the Sweet 16 teams not name Loyola.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/976178756401467394
List of possible Teams:
-Kansas State
-Kentucky
-Nevada
-Florida State
-Gonzaga
-Michigan
-Texas A&M
-Duke
-Syracuse
-Clemson
-Kansas
-Texas Tech
-Purdue
-West Virginia
-Villanova
I'm going to guess it's West Virginia. Bob Huggins has played Valpo before and is known to give Mid-Major's opportunities.
A "chance" would indicate Nevada via the Valley-Mountain West Challenge?
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2018, 09:29:24 PM
A "chance" would indicate Nevada via the Valley-Mountain West Challenge?
Valpo and Nevada both hosted home games this season so it seems likely both would take a turn playing away next season. The list of MWC teams who hosted this season: Air Force, Colorado State, San Jose State, UNLV. If we play UNLV next season, maybe we hit up Nevada on the same road trip while we're out there? Nevada vs Valpo would be a fun series and great for both teams.
And where does Gonzaga fit in with the MVC-MWC challenge? Rumor has it that talks between the school and conference are very serious and the Bulldogs could make the move in the next few weeks.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/gonzaga-to-the-mountain-west-zags-hope-to-reach-conference-decision-in-next-two-weeks/
https://mwwire.com/2018/03/24/report-gonzaga-likely-to-join-mountain-west-within-next-two-weeks/
https://twitter.com/MWCwire/status/977681715488534533
Per Oren: The 2018-19 schedule will have at least two games against this year's final four teams - with one at the ARC!
Quote from: covufan on March 25, 2018, 01:07:57 AM
Per Oren: The 2018-19 schedule will have at least two games against this year's final four teams - with one at the ARC!
Wouldn't that be Loyola?????
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 25, 2018, 05:27:34 AM
Quote from: covufan on March 25, 2018, 01:07:57 AM
Per Oren: The 2018-19 schedule will have at least two games against this year's final four teams - with one at the ARC!
Wouldn't that be Loyola?????
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Quote from: talksalot on March 25, 2018, 08:23:59 AM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 25, 2018, 05:27:34 AM
Quote from: covufan on March 25, 2018, 01:07:57 AM
Per Oren: The 2018-19 schedule will have at least two games against this year's final four teams - with one at the ARC!
Wouldn't that be Loyola?????
Thank you Captain Obvious.
I read covufan's post to mean he was not aware. Simply highlighting it by asking a question without being a ______. Clearly you take a different path. Your snarky nature makes you superior, I now see this.
I'm hearing some rumors about a neutral site tourney in Myrtle Beach, SC for Valpo in 2018. Anyone else hearing anything about this?
Aren't wwe due for a Vandy game? This is his third year and they owe us!
Quote from: Valpo2010 on March 25, 2018, 09:59:53 AMI'm hearing some rumors about a neutral site tourney in Myrtle Beach, SC for Valpo in 2018. Anyone else hearing anything about this?
The one Illinois State was in last year? (The Puerto Rico Tip-off which got moved to Myrtle Beach because of the hurricane?! Score! That's a really good tournament!
The 'Puerto Rico Tip-off' (now Myrtle Beach Tip-off?) almost seems to good to be true. We were scheduled to play in the Great Alaskan Shoot-out, which is a worse neutral site tournament. This would be an amazing scheduling get if it were to happen. 8 Teams play in the Tournament every year and currently only 7 teams are listed according to the on Wikipedia as participating in the 2018 Tournament.
2018 List:
-Arkansas
-Cal State Fullerton
-Colorado
-Saint Joseph's
-UCF
-Wake Forest
-West Virginia
West Virginia just so happened to be playing in the Sweet 16 this season and maybe that was the mystery Team Paul Oren was referring to. Maybe we are the mystery 8th team in this tournament and maybe we are playing West Virginia in the opening round.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_Tip-Off#2018_teams
http://espnevents.com/puerto-rico-tip-off/
I would be curious how long BYU stays in the WCC, with Gonzaga bolting. That conference would be screwed, as it is pretty much only Gonzaga, BYU, and St. Mary's.
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2018, 07:21:22 PM
I would be curious how long BYU stays in the WCC, with Gonzaga bolting. That conference would be screwed, as it is pretty much only Gonzaga, BYU, and St. Mary's.
BYU never should have left the MWC for the WCC. I wonder if the MWC would ever take BYU back or if BYU would even want to go back. Maybe St. Mary's will be more willing to schedule Home-&-homes with other mid-majors now. They won't be able to bank on having 2 Gonzaga games anymore.
Quote from: vu72 on March 25, 2018, 12:22:56 PMAren't wwe due for a Vandy game? This is his third year and they owe us!
The time to do this is now. If we can assume that it will be 2 for 1 then 18-19 and 19-20 both need Vandy games. The location sequence should be determined by at-large value impacts for both teams. What about Baylor?
Quote from: VU2014 on March 25, 2018, 02:56:17 PMThe 'Puerto Rico Tip-off' (now Myrtle Beach Tip-off?) almost seems to good to be true. We were scheduled to play in the Great Alaskan Shoot-out, which is a worse neutral site tournament. This would be an amazing scheduling get if it were to happen. 8 Teams play in the Tournament every year and currently only 7 teams are listed according to the on Wikipedia as participating in the 2018 Tournament.
2018 List:
-Arkansas
-Cal State Fullerton
-Colorado
-Saint Joseph's
-UCF
-Wake Forest
-West Virginia
We need to be in this kind of tournament almost EVERY YEAR. With the team quality and prospects we see coming in 18-19 and 19-20 this is an absolute MUST.
With the recent Loyola (and MVC) exposure, we need to get a Big 10/MVC double header at the United Center in Chicago. I'm thinking Illinois/Loyola and Iowa/Valpo games would easily sell out, and provide the MVC with some needed exposure.
I will again look forward to the MVC/MWC game, and any home-and-home series we can get out of this series.
Quote from: covufan on March 26, 2018, 12:59:15 PMWith the recent Loyola (and MVC) exposure, we need to get a Big 10/MVC double header at the United Center in Chicago. I'm thinking Illinois/Loyola and Iowa/Valpo games would easily sell out, and provide the MVC with some needed exposure. I will again look forward to the MVC/MWC game, and any home-and-home series we can get out of this series.
Not a bad thought but since Iowa already does the Hy-Vee in Des Moines I think it makes much more sense to try to bring in Northwestern or De Paul (if they ever get their act together) or seeing if Wisconsin or Marquette would be interested in something like this.
I mean since these tournament fields are generally planned out years in advance this could be a benefit of us having replaced Wichita State in the MVC. Though I honestly would not be surprised--if this tournament is looking for an MVC team--if they go for Loyola and we replace Loyola in whatever event they were in. That could be why the field hasn't been announced yet they're waiting to talk to Loyola. But Paul Oren's tweet said we would play 3 sweet 16 teams and two are confirmed. Loyola is one of them obviously. West Virginia is speculated to be another. If West Virginia in the Puerto Rico Tip-Off isn't one of the teams then who are they? And if the Mountaineers are indeed one of those gamesthen why not announce the field already?
Quote from: VU2014 on March 25, 2018, 02:56:17 PM
The 'Puerto Rico Tip-off' (now Myrtle Beach Tip-off?) almost seems to good to be true. We were scheduled to play in the Great Alaskan Shoot-out, which is a worse neutral site tournament. This would be an amazing scheduling get if it were to happen. 8 Teams play in the Tournament every year and currently only 7 teams are listed according to the on Wikipedia as participating in the 2018 Tournament.
2018 List:
-Arkansas
-Cal State Fullerton
-Colorado
-Saint Joseph's
-UCF
-Wake Forest
-West Virginia
West Virginia just so happened to be playing in the Sweet 16 this season and maybe that was the mystery Team Paul Oren was referring to. Maybe we are the mystery 8th team in this tournament and maybe we are playing West Virginia in the opening round.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico_Tip-Off#2018_teams
http://espnevents.com/puerto-rico-tip-off/
That list seems odd to me. Colorado is playing in the Diamond Head Classic. Blogging the Bracket (the wikipedia referenced source) shows none of those other teams as committed to an exempt tourney.
Butler fans being Butler fans... they honestly could be the most arrogant fan-base in college basketball and that's saying something.
https://twitter.com/ToddIckow/status/978519838065913856
https://twitter.com/thebutlermouse/status/978472497401286656
https://twitter.com/HinkleHangover/status/978653190592884736
https://twitter.com/HinkleHangover/status/978710555879002112
I get your hatred for Butler, but all schools have their obnoxious fans and Butler is no different. Valpo has theirs too, and if you can't find them, then it's you.
Anyways, I understand Valpo wanting a H&H with Butler. My wife went to Valpo and we spent all 4 years of college dating, so I spent some time at Valpo's campus, and I know what the Butler game means to Valpo. It was consistently the most hyped game of the year and brought in a huge crowd to the ARC. Valpo's campus loved the rivalry. Having spent 4 years at Butler and spending weekends on Valpo's campus, I can say with confidence that the rivalry is really only one sided. I know you will think that is condescending, but it's the honest truth. Butler has had that too, especially with IU. I remember in 2010-2011 people actually thought Duke was a rivalry. I know we have shared conferences, and in the same state, but I don't think it means much to anyone at Butler to be honest.
So this brings me to my question, what do you think Butler gets out of a H&H deal with Valpo? Butler consistently plays a difficult OOC schedule, so while I think Valpo at the ARC would be a tough game, it's not a tough game that Butler needs to schedule at all. We're playing in top tournaments (PK80, Maui, Puerto Rico Tip Off), have H&H with major programs over the past few years (Utah, Florida, Maryland, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati ), and also have Crossroads Classic every year. Playing Valpo at Hinkle wouldn't generate any more interest than Ball State, Indiana State, Evansville, etc. I think Valpo has been the better program over the past couple of years, but people aren't going to pack Hinkle to see you guys play. Students wouldn't be much more interested in the game either.
Again, I understand why Valpo wants the game. It would boost your SOS and could help you get into the NCAA tournament. It would also be one of the biggest games of your season and be a sold out crowd, not to mention a good game for recruits to attend. But none of this is reciprocal to Butler.
So basically, y'all are scared of us.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 27, 2018, 05:28:00 PM
So basically, y'all are scared of us.
It has appeared that Butler doesn't want to play Valpo for fear of losing. Whether that is true or not doesn't matter. It appears that way. LaValle Jordan knows just how tough Valpo can be.
Quote from: DawgFan14 on March 27, 2018, 04:51:33 PM
I get your hatred for Butler, but all schools have their obnoxious fans and Butler is no different. Valpo has theirs too, and if you can't find them, then it's you.
Anyways, I understand Valpo wanting a H&H with Butler. My wife went to Valpo and we spent all 4 years of college dating, so I spent some time at Valpo's campus, and I know what the Butler game means to Valpo. It was consistently the most hyped game of the year and brought in a huge crowd to the ARC. Valpo's campus loved the rivalry. Having spent 4 years at Butler and spending weekends on Valpo's campus, I can say with confidence that the rivalry is really only one sided. I know you will think that is condescending, but it's the honest truth. Butler has had that too, especially with IU. I remember in 2010-2011 people actually thought Duke was a rivalry. I know we have shared conferences, and in the same state, but I don't think it means much to anyone at Butler to be honest.
So this brings me to my question, what do you think Butler gets out of a H&H deal with Valpo? Butler consistently plays a difficult OOC schedule, so while I think Valpo at the ARC would be a tough game, it's not a tough game that Butler needs to schedule at all. We're playing in top tournaments (PK80, Maui, Puerto Rico Tip Off), have H&H with major programs over the past few years (Utah, Florida, Maryland, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati ), and also have Crossroads Classic every year. Playing Valpo at Hinkle wouldn't generate any more interest than Ball State, Indiana State, Evansville, etc. I think Valpo has been the better program over the past couple of years, but people aren't going to pack Hinkle to see you guys play. Students wouldn't be much more interested in the game either.
Again, I understand why Valpo wants the game. It would boost your SOS and could help you get into the NCAA tournament. It would also be one of the biggest games of your season and be a sold out crowd, not to mention a good game for recruits to attend. But none of this is reciprocal to Butler.
Oakland chases Valpo
Valpo chases Butler
Butler overtakes IU and developes a new "Gonzaga?"
It's the food chain, let's not let disgust taint reality. This decade, Butler is the hot girl that all mid-majors want to date in OOC.
I say we have to put up or shut up...(insert joke by haters)
Quote from: DawgFan14 on March 27, 2018, 04:51:33 PMButler consistently plays a difficult OOC schedule,
Now that is funny! :rotfl:
Butler OOC schedule included: Hanover, Lincoln Memorial (who??) Kennesaw State, Furman, Portland State, Youngstown State, Morehead State and Western Illinois. All at Butler. :o
So this middle of the pack Big East team can't fit Valpo, home and home on their schedule. Whether or not you think anyone at Butler cares, the fact remains that Butler has not played anyone in their history more than Valpo. It is simply "we are better then you" that dominates their thinking. Go stick it.
Sure, lets compare OOC SOS over the past few years
2017-2018
Butler: 14
Valpo: 183
2016-2017
Butler: 16
Valpo: 81
2015-2016
Butler: 22
Valpo: 50
Sure Butler has some cupcakes on their schedule, but you're ignoring the fact that we play a tough schedule OOC. But, okay, let's have some fun at look at Valpo's OOC.
2017-2018: North park, Trinity
2016-2017: Trinity, Chicago State
2015-2016: IU-Kokomo, Trinity
You guys aren't even playing D1 schools, and the worst part about it is is that you boast about how you have an 8-0 record, first team to 8 wins in NCAAM, etc. while having non D1 schools on your schedule!!!! Why don't you drop your non D1 games and take a buy game from Butler or some other big school? I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would be willing to take a "bottom of the pack" MVC team.
Beggars can't be choosers.
No one here likes the Non-d1s but they don't count against the rpi.
Butler's OOC this season had it's cupcakes:
Kennesaw State (10-20)
Princeton (13-16)
Furman a Southern League Team
Portland State a Big Sky Team
Youngstown State (8-24)
Morehead State (8-21)
Western Illinois (12-16)
They might not count against RPI, but they count in the Win column, and Valpo sure has loved bragging about that at the beginning of the year, right? Ya, Butler had some easy games on the schedule, I didn't deny that, but we still had a very strong OOC SOS. I still don't understand why you think we should drop one of our buy games for a H&H with you though. No one has been able to explain what Butler has to gain from a H&H with Valpo and why we should schedule you.
All this..........................and yet, you feel the need to come troll the board of lowly Valpo.
Methinks the fan doth protest too much
I think there is a difference between being excited and bragging. I don't remember too many people bragging to other fan-bases. It was definitely a weak first handful of games. Regardless once Burton left and Tevonn got mono expectations came down and those excitement level went down with them.
Quote from: DawgFan14 on March 27, 2018, 06:28:32 PM
Sure, lets compare OOC SOS over the past few years
2017-2018
Butler: 14
Valpo: 183
2016-2017
Butler: 16
Valpo: 81
2015-2016
Butler: 22
Valpo: 50
Sure Butler has some cupcakes on their schedule, but you're ignoring the fact that we play a tough schedule OOC. But, okay, let's have some fun at look at Valpo's OOC.
2017-2018: North park, Trinity
2016-2017: Trinity, Chicago State
2015-2016: IU-Kokomo, Trinity
You guys aren't even playing D1 schools, and the worst part about it is is that you boast about how you have an 8-0 record, first team to 8 wins in NCAAM, etc. while having non D1 schools on your schedule!!!! Why don't you drop your non D1 games and take a buy game from Butler or some other big school? I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would be willing to take a "bottom of the pack" MVC team.
Beggars can't be choosers.
You can't be serious???
Your out of schedule includes: Purdue (at home) Utah (at home) Ohio State (neutral court) Texas (neutral court) and Maryland (on the road :clap: :clap:)
Valpo gets Purdue (on the road) and Northwestern (on the road).
And you have the gall to compare OOC's ??? Granted, Butler has "earned" those games via their success--to some extent. There I said it. But the reality is that you and yours don't have the stones to play anybody on the road.
You're definitely right. This is only a Butler thing and no other programs schedule like us.
Purdue was a neutral court game and Utah was a return game. So we played one major team at home, one away, and three on a neutral court (with the possibility of more if we would have avoided Portland State in the PK80). It's understandable that we would have a better OOC SOS than you, but you're acting like we schedule no one but cupcakes in OOC.
I understand Valpo's frustration and difficulty in scheduling, as most teams view you as a lose-lose situation. You're basically stuck taking buy games at Big Ten schools or scheduling other mid majors until you can break through. It's sucks for all mid majors.
But it is what it is. I didn't come here to troll, I just wanted to ask a simple question as every Valpo fan on Twitter seems to think they deserve a H&H with Butler. I don't view Valpo as a lowly school, I just don't see the need from Butler to schedule Valpo, and if Butler doesn't feel the need, then why should they? I certainly wouldn't mind playing Valpo again, and wouldn't be surprised if we find you guys on the schedule in the next few years.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 27, 2018, 07:13:43 PM
I think there is a difference between being excited and bragging. I don't remember too many people bragging to other fan-bases. It was definitely a weak first handful of games. Regardless once Burton left and Tevonn got mono expectations came down and those excitement level went down with them.
He had some valid points and should have let it go at that. But now it seems braggadocious. Way to drive home the stereotype Mr Butler.
ANY fan that goes onto their competitors forum and posts derogatorily is asking for it. If he is at all surprised by some of the more ardent fans replies then he needs his sanity gage re-calibrated.
Playing Butler provides no benefit for Valpo. We beat them the last four times and it got us nothing. Need to schedule better then a mid level big east team.
Quote from: DawgFan14 on March 27, 2018, 04:51:33 PM
I get your hatred for Butler, but all schools have their obnoxious fans and Butler is no different. Valpo has theirs too, and if you can't find them, then it's you.
Anyways, I understand Valpo wanting a H&H with Butler. My wife went to Valpo and we spent all 4 years of college dating, so I spent some time at Valpo's campus, and I know what the Butler game means to Valpo. It was consistently the most hyped game of the year and brought in a huge crowd to the ARC. Valpo's campus loved the rivalry. Having spent 4 years at Butler and spending weekends on Valpo's campus, I can say with confidence that the rivalry is really only one sided. I know you will think that is condescending, but it's the honest truth. Butler has had that too, especially with IU. I remember in 2010-2011 people actually thought Duke was a rivalry. I know we have shared conferences, and in the same state, but I don't think it means much to anyone at Butler to be honest.
So this brings me to my question, what do you think Butler gets out of a H&H deal with Valpo? Butler consistently plays a difficult OOC schedule, so while I think Valpo at the ARC would be a tough game, it's not a tough game that Butler needs to schedule at all. We're playing in top tournaments (PK80, Maui, Puerto Rico Tip Off), have H&H with major programs over the past few years (Utah, Florida, Maryland, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati ), and also have Crossroads Classic every year. Playing Valpo at Hinkle wouldn't generate any more interest than Ball State, Indiana State, Evansville, etc. I think Valpo has been the better program over the past couple of years, but people aren't going to pack Hinkle to see you guys play. Students wouldn't be much more interested in the game either.
Again, I understand why Valpo wants the game. It would boost your SOS and could help you get into the NCAA tournament. It would also be one of the biggest games of your season and be a sold out crowd, not to mention a good game for recruits to attend. But none of this is reciprocal to Butler.
I can't disagree with anything you said, but Butler not giving Valpo a home and home doesn't have much to do with Valpo. Butler barely plays ANY home and homes. Last year Butler played one OOC road team, and that was to a non-tournamemt team in which they lost to. The year prior Butler played two ooc road games, both to non tournament teams, and lost one of those to Indiana State... and I'm guessing that was a holdover from the Horizon/A10.
I don't blame the mediocre power conference teams avoiding road games. Road games are tough, and the selection committee doesn't reward teams that win on the road. I would say Butler is lucky they got out of mid-major land at the right time, but relevance scales with expectations... really a discussion for a different time.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 27, 2018, 06:49:28 PM
No one here likes the Non-d1s but they don't count against the rpi.
This is a good point. I think Coach Gore mentioned this when talking about the challenges of scheduling (maybe on USH?). I hope there aren't as many in the future, but until better DIs are willing to play in the ARC, you may see one or two on the schedule.
The MVC-MWC challenge really helps. I hope the MVC works to get another "challenge" series with the A-10 or even the MAC. Also, adding a team and going to a 20 game conference schedule would also take the pressure of OOC scheduling.
My assumption is that we would take a buy game from Butler in a heartbeat. Butler is too scared to offer such a thing...BUCK FUTLER FOREVER!
Like it or not Butler has behaved like every mid major program that has managed to climb out of the mid major ranks. That is to immediately forget where they came from and play the P-5 game. That is schedule to their advantage. Play no games against a mid major that they could possibly lose. Play no games against mid majors away.
Realistically, Butler was the only mid major from Indiana that could do this in my opinion. They are the only (that anyone cares about) college team in the state's major metropolitan area, Indianapolis. They have the venue with the most tradition in the state, Hinkle. What is surprising to me is that it took them as long as it did to make it to big boy status.
So now Indiana has four major men's b-ball programs, IU, Purdue, ND, and Butler, and four upper tier mid-majors, Valpo, Ball State, Evansville, and Indiana State. My fantasy as an ex pat Hoosier would be a two day tournament played in Indianapolis where each of the four P-5 teams would play two games against two of the four mid major teams, playing the other two the next year. But I know that will never happen as the P-5 teams would stand to lose more with a loss than they would gain with a win, so they would never risk it. It is only in the NCAA tournament (with a few true upsets ooc) where mid majors get any possibility of a fair chance to knock off one of the big boys. This year's tournament, as exciting as it was, will only reinforce the P-5 reluctance to give a good mid-major team a fair shot in an out of conference game.
So no, I don't expect Butler to ever give us a home and home series. We can only hope to catch them in the NCAA tournament if the stars align.
Quote from: vu72 on March 27, 2018, 06:08:32 PM
Lincoln Memorial (who??)
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/ac1394dbdcca6a36cbf486633b129cd813095ac3/r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/USATODAY/test/2013/07/30/1375198648000-AP-Lincoln-Memorial-Vandalism-1307301139_4_3.jpg)
Quote from: nkvu on March 27, 2018, 11:27:34 PM
Like it or not Butler has behaved like every mid major program that has managed to climb out of the mid major ranks. That is to immediately forget where they came from and play the P-5 game. That is schedule to their advantage. Play no games against a mid major that they could possibly lose. Play no games against mid majors away.
Realistically, Butler was the only mid major from Indiana that could do this in my opinion. They are the only (that anyone cares about) college team in the state's major metropolitan area, Indianapolis. They have the venue with the most tradition in the state, Hinkle. What is surprising to me is that it took them as long as it did to make it to big boy status.
So now Indiana has four major men's b-ball programs, IU, Purdue, ND, and Butler, and four upper tier mid-majors, Valpo, Ball State, Evansville, and Indiana State. My fantasy as an ex pat Hoosier would be a two day tournament played in Indianapolis where each of the four P-5 teams would play two games against two of the four mid major teams, playing the other two the next year. But I know that will never happen as the P-5 teams would stand to lose more with a loss than they would gain with a win, so they would never risk it. It is only in the NCAA tournament (with a few true upsets ooc) where mid majors get any possibility of a fair chance to knock off one of the big boys. This year's tournament, as exciting as it was, will only reinforce the P-5 reluctance to give a good mid-major team a fair shot in an out of conference game.
So no, I don't expect Butler to ever give us a home and home series. We can only hope to catch them in the NCAA tournament if the stars align.
......... Or in a pre-conference schedule neutral site tournament where Butler does not have a choice.
Quote from: valpotx on March 27, 2018, 11:04:21 PM
My assumption is that we would take a buy game from Butler in a heartbeat. Butler is too scared to offer such a thing...BUCK FUTLER FOREVER!
I bet we could do buy game with them but if I were the coaching staff or AD I'd turn it down. If we play them I'd only want it to be in a series H-&-H, maybe a 2-for-1 or on a neutral site tournament.
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 27, 2018, 08:55:15 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 27, 2018, 06:49:28 PM
No one here likes the Non-d1s but they don't count against the rpi.
This is a good point. I think Coach Gore mentioned this when talking about the challenges of scheduling (maybe on USH?). I hope there aren't as many in the future, but until better DIs are willing to play in the ARC, you may see one or two on the schedule.
The MVC-MWC challenge really helps. I hope the MVC works to get another "challenge" series with the A-10 or even the MAC. Also, adding a team and going to a 20 game conference schedule would also take the pressure of OOC scheduling.
Agree whole heartedly. Continue MWC/MVC challenge, add a challenge with the A10, and expand to 11 teams (Murray State). Win Win for the A10/MVC and I would love to play Murray twice a year. This is the only way to beef up the schedule and get rid of bad D1's or non-D1's for most MVC teams because that is just the reality we live in.
Want a tweak to make things more fun? Can't get the A10 to play along? Have all the MWC/MVC teams go to Vegas to play their games on a neutral court and give everyone 2 games instead of 1.
It sounds very likely that Murray won't be joining the MVC next season. They likely aren't going to join till they find the right 12th member with a proven track record.
I'd take a pass on the Conference challenge with the MAC. Too many mediocre teams in the MAC. I'd definitely be for a Conference Challenge with the A10 though, but the question is would the A10 be willing to have a challenge with us? The MWC/MVC challenge will never be played on a neutral court, nor should fans want it to be played on a neutral court. One of the perks of the challenge is guaranteeing a quality opponent at home every other year. What they should do is play all the MWC/MVC Challenge games in a one week span to make it feel like more of a competition and get more eyeballs on the games.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 28, 2018, 11:44:12 AM
It sounds very likely that Murray won't be joining the MVC next season. They likely aren't going to join till they find the right 12th member with a proven track record.
I'd take a pass on the Conference challenge with the MAC. Too many mediocre teams in the MAC. I'd definitely be for a Conference Challenge with the A10 though, but the question is would the A10 be willing to have a challenge with us? The MWC/MVC challenge will never be played on a neutral court, nor should fans want it to be played on a neutral court. One of the perks of the challenge is guaranteeing a quality opponent at home every other year. What they should do is play all the MWC/MVC Challenge games in a one week span to make it feel like more of a competition and get more eyeballs on the games.
I like that. Or even the same weekend. On the same weekend it could be a great marketing package and would get good traction in the national sports media.
I just checked some old schedules and even being familiar with the situation I was surprised to the extent Valpo has been frozen out by the big Indiana programs. This is not relative toward their play with each other, but rather relative to their scheduling of the other in-state mid-majors.
Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice and Evansville twice) since they last played Valpo on March 3, 2012. Butler even played 4 of those 9 on the road - twice at Indiana State and once each at Ball State and Evansville.
Notre Dame has played 10 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State once, Indiana State twice, IUPUI once, Evansville once and IPFW five times) since they last played Valpo on January 4, 2003. Although UND did not play any of these on the road.
Finally, Indiana has played 17 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State six times, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice, Evansville three times and IPFW three times) since they last played Valpo on December 29, 2000. IU even played 5 of those 17 on the road - twice at Ball State and once each at Indiana State, Evansville and IPFW.
Valpo has been a pretty good program the last 8 years other then a down years in 13-14 and 17-18 (still respectable teams) but I think that's what leads to teams not wanting to play us. It's risk vs reward for them. We'd return value most seasons in terms RPI but they don't want the PR risk of potentially losing to a Mid. Notre Dame probably won't be playing Ball State again for another 20-30 years after what happened last season. Same with IU playing Indiana State. Ball State's program is experiencing a nice little revival the last few seasons. I always look forward the Ball State game. I'm really looking forward to Ball State coming to Valpo next season. Not a fan of the Persons kid. I really want that win next season. I really hope that series continues every year.
Quote from: ml2 on March 28, 2018, 01:38:42 PM
I just checked some old schedules and even being familiar with the situation I was surprised to the extent Valpo has been frozen out by the big Indiana programs. This is not relative toward their play with each other, but rather relative to their scheduling of the other in-state mid-majors.
Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice and Evansville twice) since they last played Valpo on March 3, 2012. Butler even played 4 of those 9 on the road - twice at Indiana State and once each at Ball State and Evansville.
Notre Dame has played 10 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State once, Indiana State twice, IUPUI once, Evansville once and IPFW five times) since they last played Valpo on January 4, 2003. Although UND did not play any of these on the road.
Finally, Indiana has played 17 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State six times, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice, Evansville three times and IPFW three times) since they last played Valpo on December 29, 2000. IU even played 5 of those 17 on the road - twice at Ball State and once each at Indiana State, Evansville and IPFW.
Those numbers are startling. It really makes you wonder why those teams will play other Mids in Indiana, but not Valpo. ??? I really wish someone could explain that. :banghead:
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 29, 2018, 10:21:14 AM
Quote from: ml2 on March 28, 2018, 01:38:42 PM
I just checked some old schedules and even being familiar with the situation I was surprised to the extent Valpo has been frozen out by the big Indiana programs. This is not relative toward their play with each other, but rather relative to their scheduling of the other in-state mid-majors.
Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice and Evansville twice) since they last played Valpo on March 3, 2012. Butler even played 4 of those 9 on the road - twice at Indiana State and once each at Ball State and Evansville.
Notre Dame has played 10 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State once, Indiana State twice, IUPUI once, Evansville once and IPFW five times) since they last played Valpo on January 4, 2003. Although UND did not play any of these on the road.
Finally, Indiana has played 17 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State six times, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice, Evansville three times and IPFW three times) since they last played Valpo on December 29, 2000. IU even played 5 of those 17 on the road - twice at Ball State and once each at Indiana State, Evansville and IPFW.
Those numbers are startling. It really makes you wonder why those teams will play other Mids in Indiana, but not Valpo. ??? I really wish someone could explain that. :banghead:
I knew it was bad, but had no idea it was that bad. Hard to imagine that the Drew family created ill will among the Indiana schools. Seems strange that they would be that afraid of us as compared to some of the other schools. I doubt that IU will play Fort Wayne again in the near future after getting beat in consecutive years and humiliated at home.
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 29, 2018, 10:21:14 AM
Quote from: ml2 on March 28, 2018, 01:38:42 PM
I just checked some old schedules and even being familiar with the situation I was surprised to the extent Valpo has been frozen out by the big Indiana programs. This is not relative toward their play with each other, but rather relative to their scheduling of the other in-state mid-majors.
Butler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice and Evansville twice) since they last played Valpo on March 3, 2012. Butler even played 4 of those 9 on the road - twice at Indiana State and once each at Ball State and Evansville.
Notre Dame has played 10 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State once, Indiana State twice, IUPUI once, Evansville once and IPFW five times) since they last played Valpo on January 4, 2003. Although UND did not play any of these on the road.
Finally, Indiana has played 17 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State six times, Indiana State three times, IUPUI twice, Evansville three times and IPFW three times) since they last played Valpo on December 29, 2000. IU even played 5 of those 17 on the road - twice at Ball State and once each at Indiana State, Evansville and IPFW.
Those numbers are startling. It really makes you wonder why those teams will play other Mids in Indiana, but not Valpo. ??? I really wish someone could explain that. :banghead:
Good research, thanks for sharing.
I know I've had mixed feelings about the move to the MVC. However, if my goal is to attract more P5 games (neutral site or H&H) then the move to The Valley makes that at least doable. No more seasons where SOS/RPI fall off the cliff in conference play I suppose. (Though this doesn't change my trepidation in other regards).
I'd imagine some of those droughts are soon going to come to an end.
I should have added in my original post, that it did not apply to Purdue, who we have played 7 times since the year 2000. Including twice in Valpo.
I also thought it was amazing, given the relative proximity, that although Valpo and IU met on a neutral court in 2000, Valpo hasn't played in Bloomington since 1956. Also IU is the only one of the other 9 D1 schools in Indiana to have never played at Valpo - although Notre Dame hasn't since 1991, and likely never will again.
QuoteButler has played 9 games against the other Indiana mid-majors (Ball State twice
And the BSU thing is misleading, because that was finishing up a long-term contract that began when Butler was still in the HL. They refuse to play BSU anywhere now, despite BSU helping to provide their largest home gate pretty much every other year until the mid-2000s.
Even USC and Iowa has obnoxious fans!
Valpo and Butler should play every year. It's a great rivalry and it needs to survive.
A list of Mid-Majors I'd like to see in future years with Home-and-home:
Nevada
St. Mary's CA
MTSU
San Diego St
New Mexico St
St Bonaventure
Davidson
Boise St
Western Kentucky
Murray St
South Dakota St
ULL (Louisiana Lafayette)
Old Dominion
BYU
Vermont
UNC Greensboro
South Dakota
Montana
Belmont
Fresno St
Temple
Bucknell
SMU
ETSU
Northeastern
Furman
Tulsa
College of Charleston
SF Austin
Utah Valley
UCF
Marshall
UNLV
N Kentucky (Too soon?)
New Mexico
Georgia St
Toledo
Penn
Wyoming
N Colorado
Grand Canyon
Wright St (Too soon?)
Rider
UC Santa Barbara
Memphis
UAB
St Josephs PA
UT Arlington
UC Davis
VA Commonwealth
San Diego
Canisius
Idaho
Iona
FL Gulf Coast
Wofford
St Louis
E Michigan
William & Mary
Hofstra
San Francisco
Lipscomb
E Washington
Jacksonville St
Utah St
Albany
CS Fullerton
Harvard
GA Southern
UC Irvine
Dayton
Mercer
Ball St
UMBC
Weber St
Towson
Portland St
Radford
Winthrop
Louisiana Tech
LaSalle
Tulane
Wagner
Central Michigan
Oakland (Too Soon?)
IPFW
Western Michigan
Austin Peay
I'm using Massey Ratings College Basketball composite from before the tournament started:
https://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm
Preferably I'd like to see us only play Top 150 ranked teams. Nothing below 200.
Sub-200 games next season: SIUE, UC Riverside, Oral Roberts
I agree but sometimes it's hard to predict where a team will finish (anyway the target should be 135 the lowest Q2 road game) but still Oral Roberts beats the heck out of non D1s. Now if we have these games plus 1-2 non-D1s then I'll be upset and concerned. SOS matters more than RPI St Mary's proved this.
I'd also schedule one-off 'buy' games at these teams:
Wisconsin
Indiana
Iowa
Ole Miss
Minnesota
Illinois
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
DePaul
Rutgers
Washington St
Quote from: covufan on April 03, 2018, 02:25:08 PM
I'd also schedule one-off 'buy' games at these teams:
Wisconsin
Indiana
Iowa
Ole Miss
Minnesota
Illinois
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
DePaul
Rutgers
Washington St
How do you propose that we do that???
Quote from: FWalum on April 03, 2018, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: covufan on April 03, 2018, 02:25:08 PM
I'd also schedule one-off 'buy' games at these teams:
Wisconsin
Indiana
Iowa
Ole Miss
Minnesota
Illinois
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
DePaul
Rutgers
Washington St
How do you propose that we do that???
Not all of them next year, but any one or two that would be willing to play.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn't a significant component of successful scheduling for any apiring mid-major the ability to squeeze into a higher profile early season tournament at a neutral site where P5 teams go to fattn up their record and give their gifted athetes a few perks? It would seem to me that if I was entrusted with the schedule, that is where I would start. Of course, I have no idea how any of this crap works and maybe those tournaments are also skewed against mid-majors just like everything else.
Quote from: covufan on April 03, 2018, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: FWalum on April 03, 2018, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: covufan on April 03, 2018, 02:25:08 PM
I'd also schedule one-off 'buy' games at these teams:
Wisconsin
Indiana
Iowa
Ole Miss
Minnesota
Illinois
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
DePaul
Rutgers
Washington St
How do you propose that we do that???
Not all of them next year, but any one or two that would be willing to play.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm unfamiliar, but at what point does Valpo stop getting paid to go to P5 arenas? Do other MVC schools still participate in "buy games"?
Seems like it's less advantageous for P5 to pay schools of MVC quality to give them a scare @ home?
Maybe I'm naive...
The buy games will probably be a part of D1 scheduling. I could see us taking 1 or 2 every season if the right opportunity appeared. We just aren't going to get H-&-Hs with Power Conference schools. Even if we did, we'd probably give them the first home game and they'd have the opportunity to buy out the our home game. Maybe do 2-for-1s but I don't remember the last time Valpo ever did one of those.
Quote from: covufan on April 03, 2018, 02:25:08 PM
I'd also schedule one-off 'buy' games at these teams:
Wisconsin
Indiana
Iowa
Ole Miss
Minnesota
Illinois
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
DePaul
Rutgers
Washington St
A few strange schools on the list. Going for beatable P5/P6s teams? Rutgers and Washington St? I bet we could beat many of these programs if we had some our veteran teams in the recent past. Heck I think we might have had a chance tobeat some if we had Joe and a healthy Tevonn this season. Ole Miss has a H-&-H with Illinois State. They just hired a new HC and it's to be seen if he'll give the return game to ISU. My guess is Kermit Davis will because he was a longtime mid-major coach at MTSU and he'll honor the previous staff's schedule. Ironically MTSU hired one of Dan Muller's assistants to be the new HC there.
I'm not sure what it would take to schedule IU. Maybe they give VU a chance since they seem to play every other mid-major. Wisconsin might be a schedule-able game because DBO Coach Zumba played at Wisconsin while Greg Gard was the associate HC there under Bo Ryan. Maybe Coach Zumba could ask for a favor.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 03, 2018, 06:10:30 PMI'm unfamiliar, but at what point does Valpo stop getting paid to go to P5 arenas? Do other MVC schools still participate in "buy games"?
Seems like it's less advantageous for P5 to pay schools of MVC quality to give them a scare @ home?
The P5 want to host decent mid major teams that they will beat. I think they will approach or respond to us cautiously for the 18-19 and 19-20 seasons so we should hope they decide based on our 17-18 results. Vandy aside, I am still optimistic that somebody will give us the opportunity to play a little basketball and earn a little money.
Loyola won at Florida in a 2017 "buy game" and won at North Carolina St in 2016 in what turned out to be a "buy game" because the return was bought out.
The only way I would want a buy game with DePaul would be for them to come to the ARC. Even then I would not categorize it as a "must see" :snore: event.
Valpo has done a few 2 for 1s over time. Purdue has been a 2 for 1 in the past (when Robbie and Scott were there?). NC State a few years ago was to be a 1-1 but they backed out of our home game. NC and Duke were 2 for 1s going back a bit but the 1 home games for us were at the United Center. 2 for 1s work well if the school has a player that is from the Region as it's a chance to play in their backyard. K has been very good about that with his recruits, although it has become harder with 1 and dones. Frankly, no P5 wants any part of Valpo on our home court. Heck, ND hasn't wanted any part of us because we've beat them at the ARC (Love you Digger), at their place and came a Greg Tonagel jumper away from beating them at the United Center. Matt is going to have to lean on friends and former teammates who are in coaching to try to get a 2 for 1. Maybe Stanford, Baylor, Vandy or Missouri could be possibilities based on past relationships.
Quote from: valpo84 on April 04, 2018, 10:09:58 AMNC State a few years ago was to be a 1-1 but they backed out of our home game.
Sounds familiar. Didn't they do that to Loyola this past year?
Quote from: valpo84 on April 04, 2018, 10:09:58 AM
Valpo has done a few 2 for 1s over time. Purdue has been a 2 for 1 in the past (when Robbie and Scott were there?). NC State a few years ago was to be a 1-1 but they backed out of our home game. NC and Duke were 2 for 1s going back a bit but the 1 home games for us were at the United Center. 2 for 1s work well if the school has a player that is from the Region as it's a chance to play in their backyard. K has been very good about that with his recruits, although it has become harder with 1 and dones. Frankly, no P5 wants any part of Valpo on our home court. Heck, ND hasn't wanted any part of us because we've beat them at the ARC (Love you Digger), at their place and came a Greg Tonagel jumper away from beating them at the United Center. Matt is going to have to lean on friends and former teammates who are in coaching to try to get a 2 for 1. Maybe Stanford, Baylor, Vandy or Missouri could be possibilities based on past relationships.
I'd also see if Carson Cunningham at Incarnate Word wants to do a 1-1, as he might want to return to the region himself. Incarnate Word won't be a bottom 10 team for long.
Quote from: valpo84 on April 04, 2018, 10:09:58 AM
Valpo has done a few 2 for 1s over time. Purdue has been a 2 for 1 in the past (when Robbie and Scott were there?). NC State a few years ago was to be a 1-1 but they backed out of our home game. NC and Duke were 2 for 1s going back a bit but the 1 home games for us were at the United Center. 2 for 1s work well if the school has a player that is from the Region as it's a chance to play in their backyard. K has been very good about that with his recruits, although it has become harder with 1 and dones. Frankly, no P5 wants any part of Valpo on our home court. Heck, ND hasn't wanted any part of us because we've beat them at the ARC (Love you Digger), at their place and came a Greg Tonagel jumper away from beating them at the United Center. Matt is going to have to lean on friends and former teammates who are in coaching to try to get a 2 for 1. Maybe Stanford, Baylor, Vandy or Missouri could be possibilities based on past relationships.
A game against Stanford would be awesome. As for Baylor I'm not optimistic about getting a game with them even with all the Valpo connections. I understand Scott never wanting to schedule his brother or his Dad but maybe he'd feel uncomfortable coaching against a program he was instrumental in helping build. Who knows. Maybe it could happen now that Bryce has left. It would be a huge game at the ARC if they could get it worked out. Coach Dildy maybe could pull some strings with Missouri. Scheduling these days really does have a lot to do with relationships.
My gut says we get a series done with Dayton in the next few seasons. That would be a fantastic series for both programs.
Quote from: covufan on April 04, 2018, 11:09:21 AM
I'd also see if Carson Cunningham at Incarnate Word wants to do a 1-1, as he might want to return to the region himself. Incarnate Word won't be a bottom 10 team for long.
What is Cunningham's connection to Valparaiso University? I know he's a native to the region but is that worth a giving a series? Incarnate Word isn't exactly a great series for Valpo, but that would be a great series for IW. Maybe it would be a sign of goodwill to do a series with Incarnate Word if you think he's going to land a bigger job down the road. Scratch my back and I'll scratch your back down the road.
Quote from: covufan on April 03, 2018, 04:59:00 PM
Quote from: FWalum on April 03, 2018, 04:02:44 PM
Quote from: covufan on April 03, 2018, 02:25:08 PM
I'd also schedule one-off 'buy' games at these teams:
Wisconsin
Indiana
Iowa
Ole Miss
Minnesota
Illinois
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
DePaul
Rutgers
Washington St
How do you propose that we do that???
Not all of them next year, but any one or two that would be willing to play.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would strongly prefer a buy-game with Marquette instead of DePaul.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 04, 2018, 12:26:27 PM
I would strongly prefer a buy-game with Marquette instead of DePaul.
Me too! We do have a history going back to Al McGuire.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 04, 2018, 01:41:22 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 04, 2018, 12:26:27 PM
I would strongly prefer a buy-game with Marquette instead of DePaul.
Me too! We do have a history going back to Al McGuire.
I'd almost suggest that we could get a 2-for-1 at the ARC. Or a 2-for-1 with a double header at United Center: Valpo/Marquette and Loyola/Illinois
You really think that Illinois would do that? Maybe if THEY had a buy-in game with Loyola. :) :)
Quote from: covufan on April 04, 2018, 03:09:27 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 04, 2018, 01:41:22 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 04, 2018, 12:26:27 PM
I would strongly prefer a buy-game with Marquette instead of DePaul.
Me too! We do have a history going back to Al McGuire.
I'd almost suggest that we could get a 2-for-1 at the ARC. Or a 2-for-1 with a double header at United Center: Valpo/Marquette and Loyola/Illinois
How about two 2 for 1's: Valpo/MU and Loyola/DePaul with the 'one' being a college dbl header at the United Center?
How about Valpo/Marquette and Loyola/Wisconsin at the new Bucks arena?
Or all of the above/below.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 04, 2018, 05:13:07 PM
How about Valpo/Marquette and Loyola/Wisconsin at the new Bucks arena?
TBH, most Wisconsin college BB fans would wonder why they had Valpo playing in this foursome instead of Northwestern.
We had a kind of 2 for 1 with Marquette in the early 2000s when Tom Crean was there. Maybe Tom would like some close games and upsets to help his new club at Georgia.
2003-04 @ Bradley Center lost 75-70 (Marquette had been to Final 4 year before with DWade. In 2002, Wade played the 2d game of the pod that featured Valpo/UK of NCAA Tourney in STL, to blow your mind down this rabbit hole, Matt Lottich was with Stanford in the evening pod that played in STL that same day vs Western Kentucky, which was coached by.... Dennis Felton, now at Cleveland State, and former WKY coach Ralph Willard coached Holy Cross a 16 vs Kansas in final game of the day in an unusually close game and Kansas had Hinrich, Collison and Gooden and went to the Champ game)
2005-06 @ Bradley Center lost 69-54
2006-07 @ ARC lost 65-62 that was a wild/wooly one with Dominic James (who was a great college player) hitting a 3 at the end to lead highly ranked Marquette to the win. Todd's radio call on that game was tremendous!! By the way that 06-07 ooc schedule was really tough one with a stretch of NC State, Marquette (@ARC), Butler (@ARC), Ohio State (Diebler reunion), EVille, Ball State, Creighton, Charlotte, and San Francisco (those last 3 in the Diamond Head Hawaii Tourney where we won the last one). 8 game losing streak until beating SF. By the way, easy trivia question of the day -- what Valpo assistant later went on to be head coach of the Dons.
From ESPN
11/28/2006
No. 9 Marquette fights off Valparaiso in last seconds
Dominic James hit a 3-pointer with 3 seconds left and scored the final 18 points for Marquette (No. 9 ESPN/USA Today, No. 8 AP) in a 65-62 win over Valparaiso on Monday night.
Quote from: valpo84 on April 05, 2018, 07:57:02 AM
2006-07 @ ARC lost 65-62 that was a wild/wooly one with Dominic James (who was a great college player) hitting a 3 at the end to lead highly ranked Marquette to the win. Todd's radio call on that game was tremendous!!
Here's the video of that shot. Make sure to watch with the sound on. Great atmosphere that game. Also, Brandon McPherson's desperation heave at the buzzer to force OT was agonizingly close.
Quote from: bbtds on April 04, 2018, 09:13:34 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 04, 2018, 05:13:07 PM
How about Valpo/Marquette and Loyola/Wisconsin at the new Bucks arena?
TBH, most Wisconsin college BB fans would wonder why they had Valpo playing in this foursome instead of Northwestern.
You raise a good point, but there are some good reasons why Valpo would work in this foursome:
-There is a strong Valpo alumni base in the Milwaukee area. Beyond that, there is also a strong Lutheran base that would have some interest and affinity towards Valpo. It would have better attendance than many of Marquette's non-conference home games.
-Marquette and Wisconsin might prefer to have a team in the foursome that would not be a rival for recruits.
-Valpo wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) expect a game like this to be a 'buy game'.
-Marquette has had weird issues with scheduling. They play in a very tough conference, but for non-conference they schedule a lot of sub-200 RPI teams at home and a handful of tough games (but usually only one or two teams about RPI of 200 in a given year). Thus, they get little interest for games against Houston Baptist, SIU-E, Eastern Illinois, etc. They replace a game that would likely have attendance of 6000 with a nearly packed house due to the better opponent and the pairing with Wisconsin. Note that this would need to be in a year when Marquette is playing at Wisconsin, since Wisconsin might not want to play two games in Milwaukee.
Great environment. Anytime the ARC gets a name brand program in the ARC it's near capacity attendance. The difficulty is getting those schools to agree to come to the ARC. Scheduling has radically changed the last 8-10 years. Power programs aren't willing to take on the risk. If they agree to a 1-1 or 2-for-1, they'll take the first home game then buy out the away game if they see any risk. The scheduling inequality in the non-conference is hurting the sport. Even just taking mid-majors out of the equation, less programs are willing to play each other on the others home court and that's bad for college basketball.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 05, 2018, 09:06:20 AM
You raise a good point, but there are some good reasons why Valpo would work in this foursome:
-There is a strong Valpo alumni base in the Milwaukee area. Beyond that, there is also a strong Lutheran base that would have some interest and affinity towards Valpo. It would have better attendance than many of Marquette's non-conference home games.
-Marquette and Wisconsin might prefer to have a team in the foursome that would not be a rival for recruits.
-Valpo wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) expect a game like this to be a 'buy game'.
-Marquette has had weird issues with scheduling. They play in a very tough conference, but for non-conference they schedule a lot of sub-200 RPI teams at home and a handful of tough games (but usually only one or two teams about RPI of 200 in a given year). Thus, they get little interest for games against Houston Baptist, SIU-E, Eastern Illinois, etc. They replace a game that would likely have attendance of 6000 with a nearly packed house due to the better opponent and the pairing with Wisconsin. Note that this would need to be in a year when Marquette is playing at Wisconsin, since Wisconsin might not want to play two games in Milwaukee.
Counterpoints
1. The new Bucks arena is where Marquette will play its home games. This wouldn't be a neutral site game for them, so they wouldn't want to bring in a fan base that's going to make their voices heard unless it was going to provide them with an RPI or perception boost if they got the win. Valpo needs to prove themselves in the regular season, and likely consistently before that invite would come. Additionally, they wouldn't want to have a doubleheader in their new arena in which they wouldn't get all the tickets and ticket revenue, especially bringing in Wisconsin to play someone else.
2. Valpo may not want this to be a buy game, and I'm not saying that they should, but Marquette certainly doesn't need a game at the ARC when they can schedule buy games against Vermont (and similar schools), who is almost always going to be at the top of the America East. A win at the ARC does very little perception-wise for Marquette, and though a loss wouldn't necessarily be detrimental, the return game would essentially be too risky with little reward for Marquette, and little risk with great reward for Valpo. I'm not saying it's right, but that's how teams from major conferences view going on the road against programs who are "good enough to beat them, but usually not good enough to benefit them".
3. Marquette was never near 6000 (at least in reported attendance) last season prior to the NIT. Their lowest attended game during the regular season was Eastern Illinois at 11,647. As a counterpoint to your argument that playing Valpo would get the arena packed - they only brought in 13,476 for Georgia and 13,307 for Purdue last year. If Valpo brought enough fans to pack the remainder of that arena in Milwaukee, then I'd wonder how the Crusaders have attendance problems of their own.
Valpo's in kind of a weird spot right now for scheduling major conference opponents, and unfortunately there isn't a short-term easy fix for it.
Quote from: bbtds on April 04, 2018, 09:13:34 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 04, 2018, 05:13:07 PM
How about Valpo/Marquette and Loyola/Wisconsin at the new Bucks arena?
TBH, most Wisconsin college BB fans would wonder why they had Valpo playing in this foursome instead of Northwestern.
Good Point. Let GB amd UWM play UW.
The two northern MVC privates (LUC and VU) should go head to head with the two northern BE teams (MU and DPU) on a regular basis. That's great college basketball for the Chicago MKE corridor. Always dblheaders alternating annually between the Bradley center (soon to be replaced by the new bucks arena) and downtown Chicago (so what if it is in DePaul's Wintrust Arena). Each year the opponents alternate as well. That kind of annual event is something all four schools can build alumni gatherings, parties/receptions and it is in the core alumni population centers of the four competing schools. I'd drive down from the Green Bay area to watch a double header like that at BOTH venues.
And if someone wanted to expand it a bit I guess you could involve NU and Bradley. But.....All private - all the time. A Saturday triple header starting in the afternoon and ending with a 9PM night cap would feed the habit of any BB junkie. I'll bet that a major national name sponsor could be found to underwrite some of it plus there might be some sharable TV rights involved too. Call it something like the Great Lakes Challenge
Lots of great ideas in this thread! I hope someone in the athletic department is taking notes ... with the move to the MVC and Loyola's FF run, now is the perfect time to upgrade the schedule.
I realize that negotiations would have to take place and that the two BE schools have the leverage going in. But to sweeten the pot, I also have ceded the Home Court to both MU and DPU (their arenas), but by doing that perhaps the after-expenses financial split could be more equitable.
This could be the tipping point that makes Chicagoland college BB (and by extension MKE too) a true player.
Agree with the sentiment that there are lots of good ideas floating around here (many better than my own).
To IrishDawg's comments:
1. That is very true. Still, Marquette hosts Wisconsin every other year and almost half of the people who attend are Wisconsin fans. And yes, they would need to share revenue with Wisconsin, but it would build some additional excitement to have a packed house for this type of doubleheader.
2. Your points are valid, but I was suggesting a one time thing with no return game at Valpo for Marquette.
3. Marquette drastically inflates their attendance numbers. Those numbers might be tickets sold (which I doubt). Georgia and Purdue probably had something close to that number of people attend, but Eastern Illinois and many other non P5 teams had no more than 8000 in the Bradley Center. - with some games (along with weekday games against lesser conference opponents) having under 6000.
Buffalo is playing West Virginia and Marquette. Hopefully we'll get news of some quality games coming soon.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 07, 2018, 02:35:37 PM
Buffalo is playing West Virginia and Marquette. Hopefully we'll get news of some quality games coming soon.
If Nevada is coming to Chicago to play Loyola. Maybe we could get a series done with Nevada? We get the first home game because it would be convenient, then we fly out to Nevada the following year? Maybe some wishful thinking.
Love the idea. Great thinking. Maybe that's one of the Sweet 16 teams Paul Oren was referring to.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 07, 2018, 02:35:37 PM
Buffalo is playing West Virginia and Marquette. Hopefully we'll get news of some quality games coming soon.
I'm confused because both of those are buy games. So does it not matter where those games are played? I feel like if that was the case Valpo could get those games whenever they wanted (sort of like Belmont does each year).
Buffalo also played Syracuse and Texas A&M on the road this year (2 days apart, which is brutal) and Duke and Iowa State on the road the previous year (again, 2 days apart), so it's not like their tourney run is resulting in these games, they just don't seem to care if they get a return game.
Think it's safe to say that our MVC-MWC Challenge opponent will either be San Jose State, Colorado State, or Air Force. They were the bottom three teams in the MWC standings, and all played on the road in the challenge this year.
VU Career Records vs:
San Jose: 0-1, lost in Hilltop 71-69, Dec 14, 1956
=========
Colorado State: 1-0, in the Opening Round of the Hoosier Classic 61-47 December 28, 2000. (lost to IU the next day 63-60)
=========
Air Force: 9-14, Valpo's won the last 4
Most Recent game was December 30, 1993 in Colorado Springs, we won 84-79 as part of a 6-game deal, 3-home/ 3-away
We beat them in the ARC on December 1, 1992 in the season opener 66-58
We beat them in Colorado Springs November 23, 1991 in the season opener 73-68
We beat them in the ARC on December 3, 1990 72-61
We lost to them in Colorado Springs 79-65 on 11/25/1989 in the season opener, the first of 8-straight losses to begin that season.
We lost to them in the ARC on December 5, 1988 59-56
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/984137282486702080
More from the University:
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2017-18/18162/valpo-mens-basketball-to-play-in-inaugural-myrtle-beach-invitational/
It sounds like the mystery Sweet 16 team is West Virginia after all.
Wait what? Another Sweet 16 team (not named Loyola)???
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/984142077167579138
Quote from: crusader05 on April 11, 2018, 01:35:58 PM
More from the University:
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2017-18/18162/valpo-mens-basketball-to-play-in-inaugural-myrtle-beach-invitational/
Great job by the staff getting into a quality neutral site tourney. Now let's see what they can how they do with the non-con home schedule!
I assume we have SIUE and BSU returning games. Was the UC Riverside a home and home or just a one-off? What else is in the works?
Those are some potentially quality opponents there at least in name.
Quote from: M on April 11, 2018, 09:08:36 PM
Those are some potentially quality opponents there at least in name.
Their 17-18 ending RPIs are West Virginia- 24, Western Kentucky- 32, UCF- 87, Cal St Fullerton- 130, St Joseph's-149, Wake Forest-162, VU-181, and a team to be named later. Hopefully we can come out of the gate strong! :thumbsup:
If we could start this upcoming year the way we started this past year I guarantee we will have some wins that matter at the end of the season. This is a tremendous scheduling get for our program. Kudos to the staff for getting it done. Hopefully the rest of the schedule is strong as well.
Really just depends on the matchups whether or not Valpo gets an NCAA tournament quality game or two in the tournament. West Virginia is probably the only "guaranteed" NCAA tournament team in the field. Western Kentucky may remain in a similar position, but in my opinion is going to be taking a step back next year. UCF will probably be about an NIT level team, same with Wake who should be improved over last year. Cal St. Fullerton could be favored to win the Big West next year, but a win over them probably isn't going to give you at-large consideration. Saint Joseph's will probably have a similar level team to this year.
It's a good, solid tournament though and certainly isn't anything to sneeze at. If Valpo (and the MVC in general) wants to get at-large consideration, then the OOC scheduling, regardless of where the games are played, needs to be stepped up, especially as the committee starts to move away from RPI based scheduling and wins. According to Kenpom, here were the rankings of the MVC OOC scheduling:
1. Illinois State (22)
2. Northern Iowa (28)
3. Indiana State (100)
4. Drake (167)
5. Valpo (241)
6. Missouri State (250)
7. Evansville (273)
8. SIU (289)
9. Bradley (297)
10. Loyola (315)
Now, I don't think you need a murder's row of opponents like what Northern Iowa and Illinois State had this year, but especially if the coaching staff feels like they're going to have a good team coming back, then that's the time to challenge yourself in the non-conference, at least to be in the top half of the country. Otherwise you wind up in a situation like what St. Mary's experienced last year (OOC Schedule was 296th), and what Loyola would have likely experienced, where if you don't win the conference title, you aren't getting in.
Quote from: justducky on April 11, 2018, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: M on April 11, 2018, 09:08:36 PM
Those are some potentially quality opponents there at least in name.
Their 17-18 ending RPIs are West Virginia- 24, Western Kentucky- 32, UCF- 87, Cal St Fullerton- 130, St Joseph's-149, Wake Forest-162, VU-181, and a team to be named later. Hopefully we can come out of the gate strong! :thumbsup:
From a MVCFANS post ----Arkansas rumored to be final team.
Nice to know we've been heard.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/984440863999823877
Honest Question: Would you consider doing a hypothetical 3-for-1 with Butler? They get 3 home games and we only get 1 home game at the ARC.
I would say thanks but no thanks. I could probably swallow doing a 2-for-1. Besides swallowing your pride I'm not sure a 3-for-1 even makes economical sense. If we were talking about a Duke or Kansas or a program of that echelon then tell me where to sign, but that's not realistic.
https://twitter.com/NJHoopsHaven/status/984473534327152641
https://twitter.com/Title_BU/status/984487881480818688
Valpo is going to play West Virginia in a true away game on November 24 in the Non-bracketed game of the Myrtle Beach Invitational.
https://wvusports.com/news/2018/4/12/mens-basketball-hoops-non-conference-home-schedule-announced.aspx
Quote from: VU2014 on April 12, 2018, 01:19:11 PM
Valpo is going to play West Virginia in a true away game on November 24 in the Non-bracketed game of the Myrtle Beach Invitational.
https://wvusports.com/news/2018/4/12/mens-basketball-hoops-non-conference-home-schedule-announced.aspx
Two wins over WVU would look mighty good on the resume!! :thumbsup:
QuoteI would say thanks but no thanks. I could probably swallow doing a 2-for-1. Besides swallowing your pride I'm not sure a 3-for-1 even makes economical sense. If we were talking about a Duke or Kansas or a program of that echelon then tell me where to sign, but that's not realistic.
We're in the Valley now. A 2-for-1 is fine under the right circumstances (yes, even for Butler). A 3-for-1? Anyone suggesting that's "how it's done" needs to drink a giant cup of GFY.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 12, 2018, 01:19:11 PM
Valpo is going to play West Virginia in a true away game on November 24 in the Non-bracketed game of the Myrtle Beach Invitational.
https://wvusports.com/news/2018/4/12/mens-basketball-hoops-non-conference-home-schedule-announced.aspx
So we play a couple of the top teams in true away games and play a 2 game tourney against the bottom 3 teams in the tournament? Or are we actually going to get a chance to see top teams on a neutral court?
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 12, 2018, 08:41:43 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 12, 2018, 01:19:11 PM
Valpo is going to play West Virginia in a true away game on November 24 in the Non-bracketed game of the Myrtle Beach Invitational.
https://wvusports.com/news/2018/4/12/mens-basketball-hoops-non-conference-home-schedule-announced.aspx
So we play a couple of the top teams in true away games and play a 2 game tourney against the bottom 3 teams in the tournament? Or are we actually going to get a chance to see top teams on a neutral court?
My understanding is that the "bracketed" portion of the tourney will be 3 games in the typical 8 team bracket on a neutral floor in Myrtle Beach. Winners advance, while losers play for 3rd, 5th and 7th places.
Teams are allowed 29 regular season games, or 27 games + up to 4 games in a multi-team exempt tournament (MTE).
Since Valpo will only play 3 games in Myrtle Beach, they can play a 4th "non-bracketed" game at WVU that counts as part of the MTE, not as part of the other 27 games allowed. Very smart way to get an extra game on the schedule.
A few years back, UNI did the same thing. They played Xavier in the championship game in a MTE in Orlando (I think), then played at Xavier 6 days later in an "unbracketed" 4th game of the MTE. Great to see Valpo staff taking advantage of this opportunity to not only get an extra game, but one against a top opponent.
I had not seen the West Virginia and Wake Forest were also in the Myrtle Beach tournament. That tourney and its teams (it also has Western Kentucky, Cal State-Fullerton and St Joseph's) overall are a good fit for Valpo. Nice scheduling!
As much as I want Valpo to build up a much better schedule, West Virginia would not have been high on my list of teams to play. I am not taking anything away from West Virginia - I am not fond of Huggins and his history, but his teams are well coached and talented. The issue with WVU is that the games are always ugly in one of two ways: (1) they force an enormous number of turnovers or (2) the don't force an enormous number of turnovers and it turns into a festival of fouls and free throws.
Beggars can't be choosers. I like it.
A game that may force us to win an ugly low scoring defensive battle? Sounds like just the game Valpo or any MVC team needs! Great get and great job guaranteeing we get to play them once if not twice. Say what you will about Huggins he gives the mids a chance which is more than can be said for many P5 coaches out there. I am excited and grateful that Valpo is getting this opportunity I'm sure the players are too.
Huggins coached the Cincinnati team that had a home and home with Valpo in the early 00s, I believe.
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 13, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Huggins coached the Cincinnati team that had a home and home with Valpo in the early 00s, I believe.
Cincinnati played at the ARC when Kenny Harris was going to be the next big time star. i remember their bigs being much more aggressive and quicker than Baby Shaq.
diving into the MBI opposition....and the all-time VU records against the opposition...
West Virginia 1-0, December 28, 2001, VU 75, WVU 57, @ Fiesta Bowl Classic in Tucson (lost to U of A 74-70 in Championship)
Wake Forest we have never played the Demon Deacons
Western Kentucky we have never played the Hilltoppers
Cal State Fullerton 1-0, December 22, 2000, Valpo 65, CSUF 52 in the ARC
St. Josephs we have never played the Hawks
UCF 3-2 all time
November 18, 2008, VU 69 UCF 52 in the ARC
December 22, 2008, UCF 85, VU 60 in Orlando
January 5, 1990, VU 90, UCF 89 @ Tangerine Classic in Orlando (Lost to Rollins by 17 in the championship)
November 26, 2013 VU 85 UCF 70 in the ARC
December 22, 2013, UCF 90 VU 62 in Orlando
QuoteCincinnati played at the ARC when Kenny Harris was going to be the next big time star. i remember their bigs being much more aggressive and quicker than Baby Shaq.
I remember that game specifically because Valpo came out in a full-court press to start the game, and had Cincy discombobulated for the first few possessions, which allowed us to get off to a good start. Those Huggins UC teams were known for trying to blitz mid-major opponents with their physical advantage at the outset of games to rattle the teams and make them play from behind. So Homer very craftily decided to try to turn the tables. It worked for three or four trips up the floor (before UC broke the press with a breakaway dunk) and allowed us to hang around for most of the first half.
We forced a turnover on one of those early possessions, and I recall Huggins letting one of his kids have it, then turning and giving Homer a quick smile and a nod, acknowledging the clever move. In the list of "Things I Never Thought I'd See in My Life as a Valpo Fan," us starting out a game pressing against the University of Cincinnati would be pretty high on that list.
I also remember two other things from that night: the VU student section serenading the Cincy bench with "Pomp and Circumstance" (this was before the APR was implemented and shortly after UC infamously clocked in with a zero percent graduation rate for their basketball program); and also being within earshot of Huggins made me realize that he can be funny as hell.
Quote from: VUOR63 on April 13, 2018, 03:09:42 PM
Huggins coached the Cincinnati team that had a home and home with Valpo in the early 00s, I believe.
We did have a 2-1 with Cincinnati 02-03, 03-04 and 04-05. The 03-04 game at the ARC was brutally rough. That was the game that Seth Colclasure got face planted by a Cinci player while trying to shield him off from a ball going out of bounds. Coleclasure sustained a concussion and suffered from symptoms much of that year, sitting out at least 9 games. Huggins does give mid-majors a chance, but we better be prepared because his teams go all out for 40 minutes, teams don't normally see the type of chaos his style of coaching can create.
That Cinci team was a bunch of thugs. I believe that 2003-2004 team had some ongoing documentary about them throughout the year, similar to the NFL show that tracks a team from pre-season to the regular reason. I forget the name of the show. I was so pissed after that game. I was waiting to cross the court in the arena hallway that leads to the visitor's locker room just after the game finishes, and one of their players bumped into me, and I gave him an elbow. It was one of the smaller guys, not the big dudes lol.
I agree that WVU is a very good get for Valpo and that having them also in a neutral site bracket tournament is great. But the recent WVU teams are almost as physical as that Cincinnati team and their guards physically beat up the opponent's guards. Jevon Carter graduated (something that didn't happen a lot at Cincinnati with Huggins) but there will always be a large rotation of physical guards at WVU.
Quote from: valpotx on April 14, 2018, 11:15:26 AM
That Cinci team was a bunch of thugs. I believe that 2003-2004 team had some ongoing documentary about them throughout the year, similar to the NFL show that tracks a team from pre-season to the regular reason. I forget the name of the show. I was so pissed after that game. I was waiting to cross the court in the arena hallway that leads to the visitor's locker room just after the game finishes, and one of their players bumped into me, and I gave him an elbow. It was one of the smaller guys, not the big dudes lol.
Hard Knocks.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 14, 2018, 12:55:58 PMI agree that WVU is a very good get for Valpo and that having them also in a neutral site bracket tournament is great. But the recent WVU teams are almost as physical as that Cincinnati team and their guards physically beat up the opponent's guards. Jevon Carter graduated (something that didn't happen a lot at Cincinnati with Huggins) but there will always be a large rotation of physical guards at WVU.
Anyone who watched the WVU/Villanova game in the NCAAs can attest to the fact that WVU will beat you up with their press. I enjoy watching tough physical play and teams which press. Not quite 40 minutes of hell but possibly the closest thing to it. Valpo will need to be very prepared in that game, particularly in the backcourt, otherwise the game will be over early.
It'll be the coming out party for Sackey as he single handedly burns through their press.
It'll help that Jevon Carter is graduated (keith's cousin and a former Valpo offer). Jevon was a stud and a great defender.
Quote from: M on April 14, 2018, 10:05:58 PMIt'll be the coming out party for Sackey as he single handedly burns through their press.
Hopefully he'll have the ball still in his possession when said burning ends.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 14, 2018, 11:15:14 PMIt'll help that Jevon Carter is graduated (keith's cousin and a former Valpo offer). Jevon was a stud and a great defender.
It'll help. Terrific player.
Quote from: JD24 on April 14, 2018, 11:33:48 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 14, 2018, 11:15:14 PMIt'll help that Jevon Carter is graduated (keith's cousin and a former Valpo offer). Jevon was a stud and a great defender.
It'll help. Terrific player.
Looks like WVU also has (7) juniors to be on their roster.
And let us not forget the family connections, Jevon is Keith's cousin, maybe both could be activated for one of the games. Interestingly, both Buffalo and Valpo (both of which Huggybear has on the schedule) were in the afternoon pod at Columbus for the tourney game vs Maryland. Huggy is a lot of things, but he is great within the coaching fraternity. Matt better be on the line to Scott to get some advice. Konate is also a more advanced Vashii in the middle so Smits and Jaime better prepare all summer for that matchup.
As of right now the 2018-19 Schedule looks like:
-Ball State (H)
-SIUE (H)
-UC Riverside (H)
-3 games Myrtle Beach Tourney (WVU, Wake Forest, UCF, WKU, SJU, Cal State Fullerton, TBD) (N)
-West Virginia November 24 (A)
-(?) Oral Roberts (rumored series starting against them)
-MVC/MWC Challenge (UNLV, Fresno State, Colorado State, Air Force, or SJSU) (A)
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 15, 2018, 08:18:53 AMQuote from: JD24 on April 14, 2018, 11:33:48 PMQuote from: VU2014 on April 14, 2018, 11:15:14 PMIt'll help that Jevon Carter is graduated (keith's cousin and a former Valpo offer). Jevon was a stud and a great defender.
It'll help. Terrific player.
Looks like WVU also has (7) juniors to be on their roster.
Konate could declare (if he hasn't already). If he's back, he's another problem.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 15, 2018, 11:47:22 AM
As of right now the 2018-19 Schedule looks like:
-Ball State (H)
-SIUE (H)
-UC Riverside (H)
-3 games Myrtle Beach Tourney (WVU, Wake Forest, UCF, WKU, SJU, Cal State Fullerton, TBD) (N)
-West Virginia November 24 (A)
-(?) Oral Roberts (rumored series starting against them)
-MVC/MWC Challenge (UNLV, Fresno State, Colorado State, Air Force, or SJSU) (A)
So far........ The road trips sound challenging and help our RPI. Good exposure too. But do the home games get season ticket holders excited and game day fans in the seats? Looks like < 3k non con home game av. attendance year so far, yes?
Probably depends on the days those home games fall on.
Depends on the days. Ball State may push or get over 3K and we may get close with the others if they're on weekends. Maybe the SIUE and UCR games can be promotional nights like the non-D1s have been in the past. They aren't great games but they sure beat non-D1s. If they're early in the season we may get around 3K to those as well. Home games so far are better than last year or at least no worse and the overall schedule appears way ahead of last year right now. Great work so far!
I have to think that the locals will remember the battles with ORU, though we should easily handle them in this one.
Maybe a few. Doubt anyone has any strong feelings about a team from Oklahoma that we haven't been paired up in a conference with for 13 years. I feel way less enthused about an ORU series than I do about even playing Oakland, and I could care less about ever playing them again. If we're playing ORU because we need a home game, fine, but let's not kid ourselves that it's going to bring any additional interest than any other random Summit League team.
If we're going for a Summit League team why not go for SDSU and bring Mike Daum to the ARC.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on April 15, 2018, 08:04:53 PM
Maybe a few. Doubt anyone has any strong feelings about a team from Oklahoma that we haven't been paired up in a conference with for 13 years. I feel way less enthused about an ORU series than I do about even playing Oakland, and I could care less about ever playing them again. If we're playing ORU because we need a home game, fine, but let's not kid ourselves that it's going to bring any additional interest than any other random Summit League team.
I'm not sure ORU will bring a larger then normal crowd to the ARC. Maybe slightly larger than usual.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 15, 2018, 08:14:26 PM
If we're going for a Summit League team why not go for SDSU and bring Mike Daum to the ARC.
For die-hard CBB fans maybe that would be a sell but I'm not sure Mike Daum brings foot traffic.
I really think there's a strong possibility that we're connecting a game against GW to that trip to Morgantown which would start a series and we'd get the return next year. As for who the Sweet 16 team is my mind keeps saying it might be Nevada or Purdue bit here's another possibility that I haven't heard discussed yet but makes some sense based on where we're traveling: Clemson. Maybe right before or after Myrtle Beach.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 16, 2018, 01:57:45 PMI really think there's a strong possibility that we're connecting a game against GW to that trip to Morgantown which would start a series and we'd get the return next year.
The WV game is the Saturday after Thanksgiving. This would make a connecting trip and game with GW much less likely on that weekend. Because we have no top quality OOC home games yet I would think we might want GW to start the series here. That way we have a shot at a good road win in 19-20 with our better team.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on April 15, 2018, 08:04:53 PM
Maybe a few. Doubt anyone has any strong feelings about a team from Oklahoma that we haven't been paired up in a conference with for 13 years. I feel way less enthused about an ORU series than I do about even playing Oakland, and I could care less about ever playing them again. If we're playing ORU because we need a home game, fine, but let's not kid ourselves that it's going to bring any additional interest than any other random Summit League team.
Oh, I care! I flipping hate ORU! Damn good baseball team to go against for several years.
Chicago Tribune pumping Northwestern to open new arena with Loyola. They state in the article that it would be two Chicago schools who had been in tourney past 2 years. If they go back a couple more years they can add a Chicago area school who was NIT runner-up and an NCAA tourney team. They also are talking about ND being initial game, they like opening arenas. They do except in 1988...
Valpo should volunteer too for the opening game!
http://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=46eb6576-ff24-4d5c-95ee-f52f6eaa95ed (http://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=46eb6576-ff24-4d5c-95ee-f52f6eaa95ed)
It sounds like we're playing UNLV next season in the MWC/MVC Challenge. Depending on the date of the game I might be making a trip out there.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/992061134478946304
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/5c2ab4f166fb2013b4919b67d5486eec/tenor.gif?itemid=5017477)
https://twitter.com/Alec_McChesney/status/992073679793205249
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/992075900660473862
UNLV is a great scheduling get for us. So much smoke around Nevada as our other Sweet 16 opponent. We're traveling to Vegas They're coming to Chicago depending on the dates we should be able to work something out. They also appear to be looking for a team for a neutral site game in LA but I assume they're looking for a P5 opponent. Wish we would consider buying out the home games against SIUE and UCR and see if we could get SMC or BYU who I know will be in the area. That would set up a nice Western road trip next year if we make those series.
They're @Loyola Nov 27 We're @UNLV Nov 28... The plot thickens... Assuming they have no game in the Chicago area afterwards and come back home immediately, we wouldn't have to wait long to set that game up.
Keep in mind though that we're traveling to Myrtle Beach around the middle of the month a week or so after the season begins. Given the proximity and the presence of Skara still on their roster Clemson is also a real possibility.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 12:06:48 PM
They're @Loyola Nov 27 We're @UNLV Nov 28... The plot thickens... Assuming they have no game in the Chicago area afterwards and come back home immediately, we wouldn't have to wait long to set that game up.
Keep in mind though that we're traveling to Myrtle Beach around the middle of the month a week or so after the season begins. Given the proximity and the presence of Skara still on their roster Clemson is also a real possibility.
Skara decided to go pro I thought?
Did he sign with an agent?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 12:10:38 PM
Did he sign with an agent?
Good question, the Greenville Online article where I read the announcement didn't say. It just said "he would forgo his final season of eligibility in order to pursue a pro basketball career."
Didn't ready anywhere that he registered for the NBA draft, so by default a pro career in Europe could mean he has an agent lined up.
Gotcha. Makes sense. I'd guess he's going to Europe. Which leads me to wonder what the heck he went to Clemson for. He could have gotten just as far from here.
Still Clemson's proximity to where we will be makes them a possibility; but my money is on Nevada if for no other reason than it would hold greater appeal to Valpo as the possibility of starting a series with them exists whereas the Clemson game would just be a oneoff. I have to think these two are the most likely unless we're reupping with Purdue. Could Sasha's presence lure them to the ARC perhaps?
Quick aside: As one of the more vocal critics of how the Happening Hoops guys have chosen to go about their coverage I have to give credit where it's due: they're doing a great job getting the Valpo content out and covering it and discussing it while not losing sight of what they want to be: a National outlet. Good work guys and keep it up!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 12:10:38 PM
Did he sign with an agent?
Unofficially Maravilla has been his agent for years. It sound like he isn't coming to Clemson. I'd bet he goes pro in Europe somewhere.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 12:38:03 PM
Quick aside: As one of the more vocal critics of how the Happening Hoops guys have chosen to go about their coverage I have to give credit where it's due: they're doing a great job getting the Valpo content out and covering it and discussing it while not losing sight of what they want to be: a National outlet. Good work guys and keep it up!
All credentialed MVC media got the same email. He was the first to tweet out what the email said from what I can tell.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 11:45:30 AM
UNLV is a great scheduling get for us. So much smoke around Nevada as our other Sweet 16 opponent. We're traveling to Vegas They're coming to Chicago depending on the dates we should be able to work something out. They also appear to be looking for a team for a neutral site game in LA but I assume they're looking for a P5 opponent. Wish we would consider buying out the home games against SIUE and UCR and see if we could get SMC or BYU who I know will be in the area. That would set up a nice Western road trip next year if we make those series.
We better learn how to replace the best defender we have had in quite some time (Tevonn). UNLV can straight score, we are going to have a hard time keeping up with their pace and still play defense. This game will help define next years squad quite early because we could play it tight and lose by 6 pts OR get hammered by 25 pts. Oh boyyyy
Either way we lose though? Hopefully their entire squad comes down with a stomach ache to give us a fighting chance.
We've got defenders on this roster. None the caliber of Tevonn but I think we'll keep it close. They're losing a lot of that scoring punch. We'll see how they replace it. We also need to see how our roster looks as we still have three scholarships open. Man UNLV West Virginia The Myrtle Beach Invitational Talk about scheduling up! Keep up the great work! This is what an MVC team needs to do and it will absolutely help us come conference time.
Quote from: M on May 03, 2018, 02:29:46 PM
Either way we lose though? Hopefully their entire squad comes down with a stomach ache to give us a fighting chance.
They did lose three senior guards. Don't know if that was a lot of scoring or not.
Nah not too much just a combined 27.4PPG from two of those guys.Oh and Brandon McCoy (16.9PPG 10.3RPG) declared for the draft and I don't think he's coming back. That's 3 of their top 4 scorers. They're bringing back #2 14.6 ppg and 3 more guys who averaged at least 5PPG so the cupboard isn't entirely bare and they should be decent but I'm not intimidated by this group to be honest.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 03, 2018, 02:16:20 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 11:45:30 AM
UNLV is a great scheduling get for us. So much smoke around Nevada as our other Sweet 16 opponent. We're traveling to Vegas They're coming to Chicago depending on the dates we should be able to work something out. They also appear to be looking for a team for a neutral site game in LA but I assume they're looking for a P5 opponent. Wish we would consider buying out the home games against SIUE and UCR and see if we could get SMC or BYU who I know will be in the area. That would set up a nice Western road trip next year if we make those series.
We better learn how to replace the best defender we have had in quite some time (Tevonn). UNLV can straight score, we are going to have a hard time keeping up with their pace and still play defense. This game will help define next years squad quite early because we could play it tight and lose by 6 pts OR get hammered by 25 pts. Oh boyyyy
Alright, brain fart. In my head I was thinking this was Nevada that we were playing (Martin twins). Now that I have my brain engaged, we do stand a much better chance of competing. Wowza
Keep a happy thought, Goodie, we might still end up playing Nevada. And I say BRING IT ON!!!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 11:45:30 AMUNLV is a great scheduling get for us. So much smoke around Nevada as our other Sweet 16 opponent. We're traveling to Vegas They're coming to Chicago depending on the dates we should be able to work something out. They also appear to be looking for a team for a neutral site game in LA but I assume they're looking for a P5 opponent. Wish we would consider buying out the home games against SIUE and UCR and see if we could get SMC or BYU who I know will be in the area. That would set up a nice Western road trip next year if we make those series.
Two more teams I'd rather play at home than UCR and SIUE that I think we can get Western Kentucky (playing @Indiana State) and Murray State (also playing@Evansville) If you have to sacrifice the Ball State game for a year or move it so be it. A step up like this in the quality of games on offer should help move attendance in a positive direction. And I think we're good enough to win some of these games as well.
We've never played UNLV... but we have played well in that area...
Oren will be thrilled to see that AMTRAK's Southwest Chief leaves Chicago at 3pm Monday... arrives in Kingman AZ, where a bus will meet the train and get to Las Vegas at 3:14am Wednesday... in time to get in a nap before the game...
and Amtrak will arrange a bus leaving from the Las Vegas airport at 10pm Wednesday to catch the Southwest Chief in Kingman AZ at 2am... on Thursday... arrives in Chicago at 3:15pm Friday... 36 hours on the train... what a fun ride... AND ONLY $360 ROUND TRIP (Plus meals).
Of Course, Non stop out of O'Hare at lunchtime on Wednesday, go to the game and catch the redeye back into Ohare, back in Valpo in time for an 8am class on Thursday for almost exactly the same price... but what fun is that???
You have to wonder what the reaction was from Oren and Parker was when they learned Valpo was getting a game in Vegas.
EDIT: Now I've just listened to USH and heard Parker's reaction.
With the trip to Vegas already booked, maybe we should extend a few days to get a game with S Utah
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: covufan on May 04, 2018, 12:48:34 AM
With the trip to Vegas already booked, maybe we should extend a few days to get a game with S Utah
(https://media.giphy.com/media/cLID1lRY1KRlS/giphy.gif)
I guess we have some history with southern utah? That was before I was following the team. But I'd take a hard pass on them, as of right now. They aren't a good team and would be a hit to our RPI. Southern Utah was a sub-250 team. If they want to come play a one off game at the ARC, sure.
We already have a "nostalgia" series starting with Oral Roberts next season. I'm hoping ORU is a little better next season.
QuoteWith the trip to Vegas already booked, maybe we should extend a few days to get a game with S Utah
A million times no. Why on earth should we be looking to add
road games against bad teams from leagues ranked well below the Valley just because we're in the area? That gets us nowhere, and we need as a program to get out of this mentality.
If we were able to add a game while we're out that way with Utah or BYU or Arizona State or something (as part of a series, though I wouldn't trust Utah as far as I could throw them to actually return a game), then great. Otherwise, fly out and play UNLV and then fly home like a serious program does. We're not in the Mid-Con anymore.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 03, 2018, 12:06:48 PM
They're @Loyola Nov 27 We're @UNLV Nov 28... The plot thickens... Assuming they have no game in the Chicago area afterwards and come back home immediately, we wouldn't have to wait long to set that game up.
Keep in mind though that we're traveling to Myrtle Beach around the middle of the month a week or so after the season begins. Given the proximity and the presence of Skara still on their roster Clemson is also a real possibility.
I think this is a really good idea, but I don't see a game with Nevada happening for a couple of reasons:
1. Nevada might be ok with hosting Valpo this year, but Nevada will want no part of playing Valpo at the ARC in two years against the roster Valpo will have.
2. I would think the MWC-MVC would like to keep these teams available as the marquee matchup in the 2019 challenge series (like Loyola-Nevada this year).
At a higher level, I'd think the MWC and Valley probably want to keep some "exclusivity" around the matchups between the two leagues. So, while they probably don't have an aversion to schools from those two conferences scheduling each other independently of the "Challenge," I'm fairly certain they don't want schools scheduling those games during the same week of the event, potentially confusing fans/media about which games are part of the challenge and which ones are not.
This board won't permit me to post "external links" but some UNLV wanna-be writer was tweeting how we'll be a sub-250 RPI game and how the MVC/MWC Challenge is such a waste of time.
Just have to chuckle. P5 ego. 9th place results.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 04, 2018, 10:08:09 AMWe already have a "nostalgia" series starting with Oral Roberts next season.
Do you think the fact that we have never won a game at the TV studio/arena named the Mabee Center has something to do with renewing the series with Oral Roberts or that Richard Roberts is no longer associated with the school and doesn't call off classes in the middle of conference tournaments.
Guessing the fact ORU's new head coach was formerly on Baylor's staff was a big part of it.
Quote from: may know on May 08, 2018, 12:55:32 AMThis board won't permit me to post "external links" but some UNLV wanna-be writer was tweeting how we'll be a sub-250 RPI game and how the MVC/MWC Challenge is such a waste of time. Just have to chuckle. P5 ego. 9th place results.
I believe you have to post 10 times before you're allowed to import anything. Got to earn your wings before we can let you can fly.
Quote from: vusupporter on May 08, 2018, 11:41:00 AM
Guessing the fact ORU's new head coach was formerly on Baylor's staff was a big part of it.
If ORU gets a series with Baylor before us it would be really disappointing. I totally understand not wanting to play your brother's team but this will be coming up on the 3 seasons since a Drew has been the Head Coach at Valpo. I and many other would love to get a series going with Baylor. I know Coach Gore is close to Scott. Maybe they are waiting for the right time? Or is it that playing Valpo would be too emotional for him? Because Scott was literally instrumental in building the program from the ground up with his Dad. We would not be where we're at today as program without Scott Drew. Extremely grateful for everything he has done for the program even if it has been 15 years since he coached on the sidelines at the ARC.
I hope we can eventually get a series going with Baylor.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 08, 2018, 01:56:13 PMOr is it that playing Valpo would be too emotional for him?
I believe this is the primary reason. It also makes me wonder if the Valpo-Vandy games will ever happen. :(
I think the Vandy game is part of some contractual obligations, so it's way more likely to happen than Baylor. (Though I think we might be able to talk Baylor into a game soon -- the Drew family aversion is primarily with coaching against family members. For that reason, you won't see a Baylor-Vandy game unless it happens in a tournament. Homer always said the toughest game he ever had to coach was when VU played Toledo when his son-in-law Casey Shaw was playing for the Rockets).
I could absolutely imagine the tournament committee pairing up Vandy and Baylor in the future. They do that type of stuff all the time. Ex: Vandy vs Northwestern 2 years ago. I could also see us getting paired against Vandy if the circumstances with the seeding wasn't too wonky. The seeding is an absolute joke.
Might the transfer of Gordon increase the likelihood of us playing Butler in the near future given that Gordon is from Indianapolis and his name is prominent in the Indy hoops scene?
I would bet...not
The only way that we would play a game in Indy this year would be against IUPUI. Either that or the the entire planning committee for the Crossroads Classic are fired and the replacements expand the playing field to include all of the D1 schools in Indiana, in which case through sort of irony we will still play IUPUI and maybe IPFW
Quote from: VUCPB alum on May 20, 2018, 07:09:34 AM
The only way that we would play a game in Indy this year would be against IUPUI. Either that or the the entire planning committee for the Crossroads Classic are fired and the replacements expand the playing field to include all of the D1 schools in Indiana, in which case through sort of irony we will still play IUPUI and maybe IPFW
(https://yeahiknowitsucks.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/cropped-sucks.jpg)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 19, 2018, 08:37:30 PM
Might the transfer of Gordon increase the likelihood of us playing Butler in the near future given that Gordon is from Indianapolis and his name is prominent in the Indy hoops scene?
Nope. Butler isn't in the business of doing us any favors. I'd prefer we don't take a buy game against them. I'm in the camp that it needs to be either a series or a neutral site game against them. I hope we don't play IUPUI (a RPI hit) or any other bad low/mid-major just to get someone a game close to home. It's only 2 1/2 hours from Indy so his friends and family can pretty easily see his games.
The Crossroads Classic isn't expanding as much as I wish they would...
If Brandon Newman decides to play somewhere other then Valpo, maybe his coach decides to pull a Purdue with Robbie Hummel and give him a game in his home town on a 1-for-1 or a 2-for-1. But still fingers crossed he chooses Valpo and if not, hopefully he doesn't choose a Conference rival.
And if you think about it Indiana State Evansville Illinois State Bradley even Loyola and SIU are within pretty easy driving distance from Indy. This really was a great move for him if his goal was to play closer to home.
Murray State is looking for at least one home game. Should we get a series going?
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/2018/05/17/bidwells-blog-early-look-racers-2018-19-schedule/
Didn't read the article but vote yes.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 20, 2018, 09:21:08 PM
Murray State is looking for at least one home game. Should we get a series going?
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/2018/05/17/bidwells-blog-early-look-racers-2018-19-schedule/
It could be a Payne to schedule the Racers but if we did get them on our schedule it would be like entering the land of Canaan.
Quote from: bbtds on May 21, 2018, 08:48:15 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 20, 2018, 09:21:08 PM
Murray State is looking for at least one home game. Should we get a series going?
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/2018/05/17/bidwells-blog-early-look-racers-2018-19-schedule/
It could be a Payne to schedule the Racers but if we did get them on our schedule it would be like entering the land of Canaan.
Polite golf applause.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 20, 2018, 09:21:08 PM
Murray State is looking for at least one home game. Should we get a series going?
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/2018/05/17/bidwells-blog-early-look-racers-2018-19-schedule/
Given that Doug Elgin has advised member programs to avoid playing 200+ RPI teams and mismatched high majors, and given that we don't appear to want to schedule HL teams (ala Butler when they left), and given that we almost never schedule a Summit League team (for probably the same reason), and given that we can't schedule MVC teams OOC like we used to, and given that almost no P6 teams would ever come to ARC, scheduling a home-and-home against a quality mid like Murray State might be a good idea.
A series with a program as good as Murray State is always a good idea. Get your OOC series with them in now before they join the MVC the games with them become mandatory and scheduling quality opponents out of conference becomes even more difficult. I think at some point we're going to have to turn to the top teams of leagues like the Horizon and Summit in order to boost our nonconference schedules in a meaningful way.
Quote from: wh on May 21, 2018, 02:25:11 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 20, 2018, 09:21:08 PM
Murray State is looking for at least one home game. Should we get a series going?
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/2018/05/17/bidwells-blog-early-look-racers-2018-19-schedule/
Given that Doug Elgin has advised member programs to avoid playing 200+ RPI teams and mismatched high majors, and given that we don't appear to want to schedule HL teams (ala Butler when they left), and given that we almost never schedule a Summit League team (for probably the same reason), and given that we can't schedule MVC teams OOC like we used to, and given that almost no P6 teams would ever come to ARC, scheduling a home-and-home against a quality mid like Murray State might be a good idea.
I wonder whether or not we might get a game or series with: Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, New Mexico State, Toledo or Belmont. All top 100 RPI schools. Even Lipscomb is just outside at #101.
You just listed a bunch of teams I'd rather watch Valpo play than SIUE and UCR. Can we get out of those games and play teams like that instead?
If we did a series with Murray State I'd want to make sure we were the first home game. With Murray being a candidate to join the Valley with expansion, I'd would want to make sure we get that first home game incase they joined the Valley. I'm not sure how likely it is that we'd schedule them at this point because many teams have their schedules set already and dates can get pretty tricky to matchup. Valpo has the leverage so it would need to be on our terms.
I don't think it matters too much where the series starts. With the Racers looking to be a top contender in the OVC it will be at least a Q2 win no matter where it's played. If we go on the road first it should be Q1. I think I like your home first road 2nd format because it gives us a shot at beating a good team in what might still be a transition year for us while protecting the strength of that game next year when we should be good in case Murray State isn't as strong in 2019-2020. I'm not saying it's a certainty that they will weaken a bit then but it's certainly possible
QuoteYou just listed a bunch of teams I'd rather watch Valpo play than SIUE and UCR. Can we get out of those games and play teams like that instead?
Me too, but "getting out of those games" require us paying those teams money to not play a game, which is not something Valpo is going to do. We booked both of those series when we were still in the HL, but we might as well play the home games and get those put to bed.
Yeah I guess that's fine. Then we can begin to realize the full benefits of MVC scheduling. I guess it's okay to just play these series out and keep the Goodwill between everyone. 2019-2020 and maybe 2020-2021 is the year we should be full out gunning for the at large bid anyway.We should be in a good position for one then.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 21, 2018, 04:54:22 PMI guess it's okay to just play these series out and keep the Goodwill between everyone.
I generally keep everything I get at Goodwill but I do eventually stop wearing the item.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on May 21, 2018, 04:27:42 PM
QuoteYou just listed a bunch of teams I'd rather watch Valpo play than SIUE and UCR. Can we get out of those games and play teams like that instead?
Me too, but "getting out of those games" require us paying those teams money to not play a game, which is not something Valpo is going to do. We booked both of those series when we were still in the HL, but we might as well play the home games and get those put to bed.
UCR and SIUE might not be great home games, but they have to draw better than the normal menu of Trinity Christian and North Park (or is it South Park?). I understand non-DIs don't count against the RPI, but at some point, I'd like to see Valpo act like a D-I progam and actually play other D-I schools.
I booked my trip to Vegas for the UNLV game on Nov. 28.
Where exactly does Parker Gatewood live and is it near a place called The Ranch? I'm thinking of getting some horseback riding in while I'm there.
I wonder if we'll get a series going with NIU within the next few seasons with Gary native Eugene German being the star player there.
Not a tremendous benefit to playing NIU but it sure would beat a non D1 or Chicago State.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 29, 2018, 09:24:35 PM
Not a tremendous benefit to playing NIU but it sure would beat a non D1 or Chicago State.
Agreed but we're likely going to schedule some unappealing or not very helpful opponents because we need to fill out the schedule. We already have SIUE/UCR lined up next season and they are arguably worse programs. Maybe we wouldn't need to play a return game depending on how badly they want to give German a game close to home. I bet we'd still give them a return game because our staff has a relationship with their staff. I believe we've played them quite a bit in preseason scrimmages.
Now that we're in a conference of similar tier and quality to the MWC we can expect similar scheduling right?
https://frshoopz.com/cbb/rothstein-cincinnati-and-unlv-to-start-home-and-home-series/
UNLV has a hot market, the last non-P6 to win a national title, and a massive arena/attendance. They've landed HvH's with the likes of a blueblood (Arizona). Look how many leagues hold their tournament in Vegas come March.
Las Vegas and San Diego are markets and arenas established brands want to play in. Then factor in the West being so vast geographically and having no comparable league, and that often makes it beneficiary for PAC teams to schedule top MWC programs HvH.
Loyola is the only MVC program with an advantageous market. But they don't have the arena to go with it.
I would look at non-SDSU/UNLV/UNM MWC home schedules for a fair comparison. SDSU and UNLV (and to a lesser extent UNM) have intrinsic advantages for scheduling that other MWC/MVC schools can't compete with.
Fingers crossed we land a series with a team of Cincinnati's caliber in the near future. UNLV is an attractive opponent for other programs because it's in Vegas. It's a fun experience for the team and fans to travel to.
Are you hearing anything that should give us hope in that regard, 2014?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 01, 2018, 10:50:44 AM
Are you hearing anything that should give us hope in that regard, 2014?
Unfortunately not. We have that Vandy series at some point but I don't think it will start next season.
You can bet that B. Drew will not schedule us unless he is firmly convinced that we wont be able to give them a battle. The situation is much different when he holds the cards.
Quote from: valpo64 on June 01, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
You can bet that B. Drew will not schedule us unless he is firmly convinced that we wont be able to give them a battle. The situation is much different when he holds the cards.
If that were the case he'd be begging Coach Lottich to start the series this upcoming season, because Vandy is going to be very good with two 5-star prospects coming in. I'm sure he doesn't want to lose to us, but Vandy should be favored to beat us pretty much every season. Last season was the season to be playing Vandy because their roster situation/depth was in a bad spot.
Bryce has mentioned in his USH interview with Paul that it would be emotionally pretty tough to play Valpo, which is very understandable.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 01, 2018, 01:16:08 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on June 01, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
You can bet that B. Drew will not schedule us unless he is firmly convinced that we wont be able to give them a battle. The situation is much different when he holds the cards.
If that were the case he'd be begging Coach Lottich to start the series this upcoming season, because Vandy is going to be very good with two 5-star prospects coming in. I'm sure he doesn't want to lose to us, but Vandy should be favored to beat us pretty much every season. Last season was the season to be playing Vandy because their roster situation/depth was in a bad spot.
Bryce has mentioned in his USH interview with Paul that it would be emotionally pretty tough to play Valpo, which is very understandable.
So is it in his contract breakup or not? If we are to get a home and home you would think it would start soon. This will be his third year at Vandy?
Quote from: vu72 on June 01, 2018, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 01, 2018, 01:16:08 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on June 01, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
You can bet that B. Drew will not schedule us unless he is firmly convinced that we wont be able to give them a battle. The situation is much different when he holds the cards.
If that were the case he'd be begging Coach Lottich to start the series this upcoming season, because Vandy is going to be very good with two 5-star prospects coming in. I'm sure he doesn't want to lose to us, but Vandy should be favored to beat us pretty much every season. Last season was the season to be playing Vandy because their roster situation/depth was in a bad spot.
Bryce has mentioned in his USH interview with Paul that it would be emotionally pretty tough to play Valpo, which is very understandable.
So is it in his contract breakup or not? If we are to get a home and home you would think it would start soon. This will be his third year at Vandy?
Your profile says you live in Nashville ... I nominate you to walk/drive over to Vanderbilt and get to the bottom of this. Thanks!
Quote from: EddieCabot on June 01, 2018, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: vu72 on June 01, 2018, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 01, 2018, 01:16:08 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on June 01, 2018, 12:15:46 PM
You can bet that B. Drew will not schedule us unless he is firmly convinced that we wont be able to give them a battle. The situation is much different when he holds the cards.
If that were the case he'd be begging Coach Lottich to start the series this upcoming season, because Vandy is going to be very good with two 5-star prospects coming in. I'm sure he doesn't want to lose to us, but Vandy should be favored to beat us pretty much every season. Last season was the season to be playing Vandy because their roster situation/depth was in a bad spot.
Bryce has mentioned in his USH interview with Paul that it would be emotionally pretty tough to play Valpo, which is very understandable.
So is it in his contract breakup or not? If we are to get a home and home you would think it would start soon. This will be his third year at Vandy?
Your profile says you live in Nashville ... I nominate you to walk/drive over to Vanderbilt and get to the bottom of this. Thanks!
On my way!! ;)
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1002919099733827584
On today's USH, Paul said Valpo will have another game against a Sweet 16 team. Any guesses? Purdue again? I have no clue. ???
Purdue Nevada Clemson Maybe the one team not yet announced for the Myrtle Beach Invitational Also I don't see a new USH. Do you have a link?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 03, 2018, 04:39:29 PM
Purdue Nevada Clemson Maybe the one team not yet announced for the Myrtle Beach Invitational Also I don't see a new USH. Do you have a link?
I don't see it on nwitimes.com ... I listened to it on I-tunes.
Isn't West Virginia in the Invitational. They were in he sweet 16.
Quote from: AranJacobs on June 04, 2018, 08:47:36 AM
Isn't West Virginia in the Invitational. They were in he sweet 16.
I think meant there was a potential additional Sweet 16 opponent. We're playing WVU twice: 11/15-11/18 MBI and 11/24 true away game. Who might it be? It's either going to be a away game or part of the Myrtle Beach Invitational which includes: Wake Forest, West Virginia, Cal State Fullerton, St. Joseph's UCF, Valparaiso and Western Kentucky and 1 team yet to be determined. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/04/11/myrtle-beach-to-host-college-basketball-tournament-in-2018/33744383/
Maybe while Nevada is out here to play Loyola in the MVC/MWC Challenge they'd be willing to play us at the ARC? That just seems too go to be true. It would be awesome to get a Home-&-Home Series with them separate from the Challenge. Or maybe we play Nevada on the road while we're out there playing UNLV. That would seem more likely to me.
Maybe Clemson makes sense because we'll be in South Carolina for the Invitational.
Sweet 16 Teams:
-Duke Blue Devils
-Kentucky Wildcats (we just had a buy game with them 2 seasons ago)
-Villanova Wildcats
-Michigan Wolverines
-Kansas Jayhawks
-Texas A&M Aggies
-Clemson Tigers
-Texas Tech Red Raiders
-
West Virginia Mountaineers (we already know we're scheduled to play them)
-Purdue Boilermakers (we just played a buy game against them last season, seems unlikely)
-
Loyola-Chicago Ramblers (conference opponent)
-Nevada Wolf Pack
-Gonzaga Bulldogs
-Florida State Seminoles
-Kansas State Wildcats
-Syracuse Orange
Press Release: June 28th, 2018
Villanova to play at Valparaiso on Saturday, January 26th, 2019.
In a surprising announcement, defending National Champion Villanova announced that they would be traveling to Valparaiso to play the Crusaders in a nationally televised game at 8:00 PM. In the announcement, Jay Wright stated, "we have always wanted to play a game in the historic Athletics and Recreation Center. The environment in the ARC and in the entire town of Valparaiso is something that every college program should experience". When asked about playing a road non-conference game in the middle of the Big East schedule, Wright stated, "as we work towards defending our National Championship, it is important that we add a game that will be an even bigger challenge than our Big East schedule - which is tough every year".
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 04, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
Press Release: June 28th, 2018
Villanova to play at Valparaiso on Saturday, January 26th, 2019.
In a surprising announcement, defending National Champion Villanova announced that they would be traveling to Valparaiso to play the Crusaders in a nationally televised game at 8:00 PM. In the announcement, Jay Wright stated, "we have always wanted to play a game in the historic Athletics and Recreation Center. The environment in the ARC and in the entire town of Valparaiso is something that every college program should experience". When asked about playing a road non-conference game in the middle of the Big East schedule, Wright stated, "as we work towards defending our National Championship, it is important that we add a game that will be an even bigger challenge than our Big East schedule - which is tough every year".
(https://media.giphy.com/media/YoB1eEFB6FZ1m/giphy.gif)
Anyone else thinking we need to schedule SOME winnable games next year!?!?!? All these Sweet 16 level games has me nervous to even reach .500 OOC.
Sounds like a plethora of road games are in order.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 04, 2018, 12:22:03 PM
Anyone else thinking we need to schedule SOME winnable games next year!?!?!? All these Sweet 16 level games has me nervous to even reach .500 OOC.
Sounds like a plethora of road games are in order.
Depends on what winnable means. If we're talking teams that would range from an RPI of 75 to 150, I am all for it. If we are talking playing more games against teams like UC-Riverside or SIU-E, forget it.
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 04, 2018, 12:32:24 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 04, 2018, 12:22:03 PM
Anyone else thinking we need to schedule SOME winnable games next year!?!?!? All these Sweet 16 level games has me nervous to even reach .500 OOC.
Sounds like a plethora of road games are in order.
Depends on what winnable means. If we're talking teams that would range from an RPI of 75 to 150, I am all for it. If we are talking playing more games against teams like UC-Riverside or SIU-E, forget it.
I'd take 75-150 all day over scheduling 3+ Top 30 teams. But agreed, I'd take both before cupcakes.
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 04, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
Press Release: June 28th, 2018
Villanova to play at Valparaiso on Saturday, January 26th, 2019.
In a surprising announcement, defending National Champion Villanova announced that they would be traveling to Valparaiso to play the Crusaders in a nationally televised game at 8:00 PM. In the announcement, Jay Wright stated, "we have always wanted to play a game in the historic Athletics and Recreation Center. The environment in the ARC and in the entire town of Valparaiso is something that every college program should experience". When asked about playing a road non-conference game in the middle of the Big East schedule, Wright stated, "as we work towards defending our National Championship, it is important that we add a game that will be an even bigger challenge than our Big East schedule - which is tough every year".
April fools in June! :rotfl:
I'd bet a good deal of money Jay Wright doesn't have a clue what our home gym is. 50/50 he could place Valpo on a map.
I don't know if he knows anything about the ARC, but I'm sure he knows where we're located. Homer was always a popular guy at the annual coaches convention by all accounts Scott and Bryce have picked up that torch, as well.
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 04, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
Press Release: June 28th, 2018
Villanova to play at Valparaiso on Saturday, January 26th, 2019.
In a surprising announcement, defending National Champion Villanova announced that they would be traveling to Valparaiso to play the Crusaders in a nationally televised game at 8:00 PM. In the announcement, Jay Wright stated, "we have always wanted to play a game in the historic Athletics and Recreation Center. The environment in the ARC and in the entire town of Valparaiso is something that every college program should experience". When asked about playing a road non-conference game in the middle of the Big East schedule, Wright stated, "as we work towards defending our National Championship, it is important that we add a game that will be an even bigger challenge than our Big East schedule - which is tough every year".
I'm calling BS. I just checked Nova's board and read every post from the 28th of this month. Not one word about this.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on June 04, 2018, 03:05:18 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 04, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
Press Release: June 28th, 2018
Villanova to play at Valparaiso on Saturday, January 26th, 2019.
I'm calling BS. I just checked Nova's board and read every post from the 28th of this month. Not one word about this.
In a recent interview, Wright added, "We thought it was important for the two great VUs founded in the mid-1800s to play against each other." Wright was asked again about the challenge of playing at the historic Athletics Recreation Center. Wright continued, "That place has so much history, and sometimes the fans in the chairback seats stand up and yell." He went on to confirm that this is a two for one deal, with Villanova playing at the ARC in 2018-19 and again in 2020-21, with Valparaiso coming to the Pavilion in 2019-20. ;)
Maybe Jay Wright is a Culver's fan and he has always wanted to be able to buy it just 15 feet from one of the backboards. Nothing says big-time like a rope line to concessions at one end of the gym. :lol: :P
Quote from: valpo95 on June 04, 2018, 03:36:50 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on June 04, 2018, 03:05:18 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 04, 2018, 11:39:56 AM
Press Release: June 28th, 2018
Villanova to play at Valparaiso on Saturday, January 26th, 2019.
I'm calling BS. I just checked Nova's board and read every post from the 28th of this month. Not one word about this.
In a recent interview, Wright added, "We thought it was important for the two great VUs founded in the mid-1800s to play against each other." Wright was asked again about the challenge of playing at the historic Athletics Recreation Center. Wright continued, "That place has so much history, and sometimes the fans in the chairback seats stand up and yell." He went on to confirm that this is a two for one deal, with Villanova playing at the ARC in 2018-19 and again in 2020-21, with Valparaiso coming to the Pavilion in 2019-20. ;)
:rotfl: :clap: :rotfl:
You can exclude Nevada from the mystery Sweet 16 team we might schedule for next season.
I could see us playing Clemson while we're on the East Coast for the Myrtle Beach Invitational.
https://twitter.com/NevadaHoops/status/1004055841379528704
Sweet 16 Teams:
-Duke Blue Devils
-Kentucky Wildcats (we just had a buy game with them 2 seasons ago)
-Villanova Wildcats
-Michigan Wolverines
-Kansas Jayhawks
-Texas A&M Aggies
-Clemson Tigers
-Texas Tech Red Raiders
-West Virginia Mountaineers (we already know we're scheduled to play them)
-Purdue Boilermakers (we just played a buy game against them last season, seems unlikely)
-Loyola-Chicago Ramblers (conference opponent)
-Nevada Wolf Pack
-Gonzaga Bulldogs
-Florida State Seminoles
-Kansas State Wildcats
-Syracuse Orange
Sounds like a team that did not advance out of the sweet sixteen (I actually listened to a podcast 😱).
Quote from: VU2014 on June 05, 2018, 01:02:44 PMYou can exclude Nevada from the mystery Sweet 16 team we might schedule for next season. I could see us playing Clemson while we're on the East Coast for the Myrtle Beach Invitational. https://twitter.com/NevadaHoops/status/1004055841379528704 Sweet 16 Teams: -Duke Blue Devils -Kentucky Wildcats (we just had a buy game with them 2 seasons ago) -Villanova Wildcats -Michigan Wolverines -Kansas Jayhawks -Texas A&M Aggies -Clemson Tigers -Texas Tech Red Raiders -West Virginia Mountaineers (we already know we're scheduled to play them) -Purdue Boilermakers (we just played a buy game against them last season, seems unlikely) -Loyola-Chicago Ramblers (conference opponent) -Nevada Wolf Pack -Gonzaga Bulldogs -Florida State Seminoles -Kansas State Wildcats -Syracuse Orange
I wouldn't be so sure. The tweet itself calls the schedule incomplete.
Not a sweet 16 team but they did make the Vegas 8 a few years ago....I would like to see us play Oakland next year. Only draw back is they would probably want a home and away contract plus Oakland's RPI will be a drag.
This past year was the year to play Oakland. Not very interested now.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 03, 2018, 04:39:29 PM
Purdue Nevada Clemson Maybe the one team not yet announced for the Myrtle Beach Invitational Also I don't see a new USH. Do you have a link?
Per Jon Rothstein, Monmouth is the eighth team in the Myrtle Beach tournament.
Not the headliner type of team I was hoping for but it's still a very good field.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 04:29:58 PM
Not the headliner type of team I was hoping for but it's still a very good field.
Here's my way-too-early guess of what the bracket will look like:
Left side:
WVU vs
Monmouth
UCF vs
St Joe's
Right side:
WKU vs
CS Fullerton
Wake vs
Valpo
Is it crazy for me to think we could come out of that side?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 04:29:58 PM
Not the headliner type of team I was hoping for but it's still a very good field.
We need some W's next year, so we at least have a chance if we play them. Why do some of us want only P5 on our OOC schedule?
Because I am of the belief that VU is good enough to win two games in that tournament with the right draw.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 06, 2018, 07:29:00 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 04:29:58 PM
Not the headliner type of team I was hoping for but it's still a very good field.
We need some W's next year, so we at least have a chance if we play them. Why do some of us want only P5 on our OOC schedule?
Monmouth finished with an RPI of 60 in 15-16 (when they were also an NIT #1 seed), finished 16-17 with an RPI of 51, then dropped back to 207 last season.
Without knowing any details of their 18-19 prospects I'd say they are a pleasant surprise as the final addition. Have we ever faced them?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 07:42:56 PM
Because I am of the belief that VU is good enough to win two games in that tournament with the right draw.
Are we betting the farm that Fazekas solves 75% of our PF/SF issues of last year? Cause combine that with losing the best defender/glue guy we've had in a long time (Tevonn) who could also manufacture a bucket and I still see a whole bunch of question marks for OOC 2018/19.
Fazekas has the size to play the 3\4 and wasn't exactly a slouch at Providence. Yes I am confident that he will do fine in the MVC.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 08:02:10 PM
Fazekas has the size to play the 3\4 and wasn't exactly a slouch at Providence. Yes I am confident that he will do fine in the MVC.
I think with Fazekas it comes down to health. Injuries and health are what really hampered Ryan at Providence. He's had some genuine bad luck
Anyone know how many kids generally attend the VU MBB summer camps? Looking at the prices and it seems a little pricey.
$375 for 4-days of 9AM to 3PM.
It was $300 a few years back and it went 9-4 or 5. $375 is a bit steep for me and my two kids.
If that's the pairing, Valpo should have an excellent chance to beat Wake based on information available at this time. We will have an experienced roster with some key additions -- Fazekas and Javon. Wake has lost most of their best talent the past two years, and will be young, although with some size in the middle. Last year was a huge struggle as they lost Atlanta Hawks John Collins. They had another guy declare and stay in draft this year. They will be led by Brandon Childress, who can shoot and is the son of Wake legend Randolph Childress. They lost a couple games to mid-majors last year. Danny Manning, despite being a very good hire and his success at Tulsa, has now entered the dreaded "hot seat" at Wake. Unfortunately, he took over a program that had been driven to the depths by the ultimate poor coaching decision of Bzdelik. For good insight on Wake sports, bloggersodear.com .
Interestingly, the tune for Wake's alma mater is the same as Valpo's, substitute at the end "dear ol Valpo" for "Mother so dear."
Quote from: M on June 05, 2018, 03:46:53 PMSounds like a team that did not advance out of the sweet sixteen (I actually listened to a podcast 😱).
I'm thinking that the Podcast Spokespersons would have said... "we have an elite 8 team coming in"...
I mean we don't say the '98 team is a round of 32-team'...
which would leave just these 7 teams (with WVU already spoken for).. and Valpo's all time record
-Kentucky Wildcats 0-2
-Texas A&M Aggies 0-2
-Clemson Tigers - never played
-Purdue Boilermakers 2-14
-Nevada Wolf Pack never played
-Gonzaga Bulldogs 0-1
-Syracuse Orange 0-2
I'll go out on a limb and suggest Clemson (since we'll be in the area)...
or Purdud, because they like beating in-state schools
or Kentucky, because we need another "Road Trip" to Rupp. I know how to get there.
I would say not Nevada unless it's a H&H
Mark Few might like to come to the ARC as a pre-cursor to having to go to St. Marys' small intimate gym
Jim Boeheim might like to play us as a "this is what you get when you run a really clean program"
Texas A&M because they want a beat a team associated with the name "Drew", and they want to pay us back for beating TA&M-CC three times in a row.
Ball State is coming to Valpo this coming season per the article attached. Should be a good game and we owe them after last season's game.
https://amp.thestarpress.com/amp/690735002?__twitter_impression=true
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: EddieCabot on June 06, 2018, 04:43:26 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 04:29:58 PM
Not the headliner type of team I was hoping for but it's still a very good field.
Here's my way-too-early guess of what the bracket will look like:
Left side:
WVU vs
Monmouth
UCF vs
St Joe's
Right side:
WKU vs
CS Fullerton
Wake vs
Valpo
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-06-14/10-non-conference-basketball-tournaments-could-be-key-come (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-06-14/10-non-conference-basketball-tournaments-could-be-key-come)
Quote from: EddieCabot on June 14, 2018, 11:51:19 AM
Quote from: EddieCabot on June 06, 2018, 04:43:26 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 06, 2018, 04:29:58 PM
Not the headliner type of team I was hoping for but it's still a very good field.
Here's my way-too-early guess of what the bracket will look like:
Left side:
WVU vs
Monmouth
UCF vs
St Joe's
Right side:
WKU vs
CS Fullerton
Wake vs
Valpo
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-06-14/10-non-conference-basketball-tournaments-could-be-key-come (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-06-14/10-non-conference-basketball-tournaments-could-be-key-come)
Playing off of the way Katz ranks the field and our regular season game at West Virginia, here is my projection for the lineup on our side of the bracket.
VU vs UCF
St Joe vs Wake
Any way it shakes out could give a a trio of good RPI opponents.
Or a quartet. ;)
ECU is looking to start series and needs a game this year. Any interest? They're bad but they are an AAC team.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1011641583433867264
ENTHUSIADAM Mid Major Architect
by Harry Schroeder
June 25, 2018
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/enthusiadams-mid-major-architect/
So UNC Wilmington will begin a home and home series with Stanford this year with the first game being played in Wilmington. Coach Lottich went to Stanford. We will be very good in 2019-2020. He needs to use his connections to Stanford to give our Crusaders a chance at a resume-building P5 win. We should also see if schools like Ole Miss and Auburn who have given home and homes to mid majors in the recent past are game to do so now. Furthermore with the scheduling changes in the WCC we should be calling teams in the top half of that conference as well.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 02, 2018, 03:41:15 AM
So UNC Wilmington will begin a home and home series with Stanford this year with the first game being played in Wilmington. Coach Lottich went to Stanford. We will be very good in 2019-2020. He needs to use his connections to Stanford to give our Crusaders a chance at a resume-building P5 win. We should also see if schools like Ole Miss and Auburn who have given home and homes to mid majors in the recent past are game to do so now. Furthermore with the scheduling changes in the WCC we should be calling teams in the top half of that conference as well.
The UNCW/Stanford series is happening because the two head coaches played at Kansas together and coached on Roy Williams' staff together for 13 years. The Stanford coach is helping out his buddy.
If Coach Lottich knew someone well on the Stanford staff (not the same coaching tree) or at the Top of the Stanford Athletics Dept, maybe it could happen. It's been 14 years since he's played for Stanford. The Ole Miss staff that gave ISUr the H-&-H has been fired.
Makes sense on Ole Miss I counter by saying that there might still be a chance given that they are coached by a man fresh from a mid major that got seriously snubbed and that that staff honored their commitment to Illinois State when they didn't have to . All I'm saying is it doesn't hurt to ask.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 02, 2018, 12:30:36 PM
Makes sense on Ole Miss I counter by saying that there might still be a chance given that they are coached by a man fresh from a mid major that got seriously snubbed and that that staff honored their commitment to Illinois State when they didn't have to . All I'm saying is it doesn't hurt to ask.
I hope so but I'm pessimistic. Kermit Davis railed against the system being stacked against mid-majors a month before taking the Ole Miss job so you never know. He'd be a serious hypocrite if he refused to schedule mids in the future.
Same with Bryce if he never comes through with that series we were promised.
Some VU (and MVC) schedule musings:
Here's a thought that I'm not sure has been listed before: could our second nonconference Sweet 16 opponent be Syracuse? I have no source and I've heard no rumors, I'm just putting together some dots that make sense. On December 9, there is a non-exempt event in New York called the Holiday Festival. Syracuse has not been connected to this event to my knowledge, but as a P5 school in the area they might make sense for an event like this. The other game pits a mid major (Princeton) against a Big East school (St. John's) so maybe we'd fit the profile of the kind of opponent they're seeking for the regional heavyweight (the home team could be another team from the area, I'm just using Syracuse because they're the only team that makes geographic sense for this event that made the Sweet 16). Syracuse lost 69-65 to Duke in the Sweet 16 this past season and it seems like a time in the schedule where we might play a big opponent. We played Northwestern on that date last year.
https://www.bloggingthebracket.com/2017/11/27/16671208/2018-19-college-basketball-early-season-tournaments-events-mte-neutral-site-showcases-thanksgiving
The more I look at it though the more I think it's second game is another buy game at Purdue. Come on Boilers. Give us a 2 for 2. Or even a 2 for 1. Do it for Sasha.
Honestly, the New York idea makes a lot of sense for Loyola. They were already looking to set up a similar game in Newark with Mississippi State on December 8, so the date and location match what they were already looking for, plus they're a hot enough name to sell to local fans coming off their Final 4 run, AND they could offer the east coast team a return game in Chicago in 2019 at the UC. It just makes so much sense and would be great for the MVC.
If Loyola ever does put something like this on, we should get in on it. Though I imagine some larger school like DePaul Northwestern or Illinois would crowd us out. I know the idea has been floated before but a Hy-Vee style even for Chicago and the surrounding area would be so cool. It's such a shame the one in Iowa is being discontinued.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops
Eastern Michigan is looking for a home and home Should we consider them? It would be a close game for Bakari and here are their RPI numbers the past several years:
17-18: 116
16-17: 175
15-16: 112
14-15: 139
13-14: 84
Looks like a solid potential opponent for a series.
OOC scheduling has been the program's biggest Achilles heel for a very long time. A collection of mediocre opponents, a home schedule front-loaded with non-D1's, and the standard "scheduling is hard" excuse. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.
We got away with this routine in the Horizon and Mid Con, but it doesn't play in the 8th-ranked conference in college basketball. Scheduling is hard? Deal with it. Nobody good wants to come to the ARC? Deal with it. It's hard to find enough quality D-1 opponents to fill out the schedule without adding non D-1's? Deal with it.
I remember there was talk about Eastern Michigan dropping football and joining the HL.
My vote is yes. Schedule them. But better win
WH, My hope is playing in a better conference wil no longer force us those "opportunities"to play less than D1schools. Just like us, the bottom D1schools want to play better non conference schedules, whether it means extra cash for them or raise their respective (conference) RPIs. I think everyone knows the "new"landscape of the NCAA and that's playing a tougher schedule throughout even if it means canabalizing each other.
Three of my grandchildren were born in Ypsilanti... and still live nearby... I believe I can make that road game...
and I promise not to call them the "Hurons"...again.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 02, 2018, 10:17:40 PM
Same with Bryce if he never comes through with that series we were promised.
It depends on how much Vandy will pay Valpo to get out of that clause in Bryce's Valpo contract.
Quote from: historyman on July 11, 2018, 12:36:33 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 02, 2018, 10:17:40 PMSame with Bryce if he never comes through with that series we were promised.
It depends on how much Vandy will pay Valpo to get out of that clause in Bryce's Valpo contract.
The payment regardless of the amount doesn't change the inherent hypocrisy of a coach that just a couple years ago wailed and lamented to the highest heavens about the perils and pitfalls of mid-major scheduling--even going so far as the complain about his plight on Chicago sports talk radio--ducking a prearranged agreement with that same mid-major program after bolting to a P5 school and assembling a stacked recruiting class. He could give Valpo 2 years of his Vanderbilt salary--one for each missed game--and it still wouldn't alter the optics of that move one iota.
You mean Bruce?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 11, 2018, 07:56:30 AM
Quote from: historyman on July 11, 2018, 12:36:33 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 02, 2018, 10:17:40 PMSame with Bryce if he never comes through with that series we were promised.
It depends on how much Vandy will pay Valpo to get out of that clause in Bryce's Valpo contract.
The payment regardless of the amount doesn't change the inherent hypocrisy of a coach that just a couple years ago wailed and lamented to the highest heavens about the perils and pitfalls of mid-major scheduling--even going so far as the complain about his plight on Chicago sports talk radio--ducking a prearranged agreement with that same mid-major program after bolting to a P5 school and assembling a stacked recruiting class. He could give Valpo 2 years of his Vanderbilt salary--one for each missed game--and it still wouldn't alter the optics of that move one iota.
I think in these situations it's the AD that is making the decisions about scheduling the coach's former team as dictated in the coach's former contract. The AD who hired the coach doesn't want to play that game but had to agree to it in order to hire the new coach. For P5 schools the AD will then do anything including offering large amounts of money to not have to play the game. When Vandy finally gets to the point where Valpo needs the money being offered more than playing the game mlb will let them out of the contract requirement. I know we think Bryce is a better man than that but in the end he did take the much larger salary and the coaching job at Vandy so he wouldn't have to deal with situations where P5 schools would not play his mid-major team. No matter the optics in the end Bryce went for the money and the prestige of the Vandy coaching position. If it wasn't this way mid-majors would not have these issues with P5 schools. Bryce wants to think he is a better person but in the end he took the money and the prestige of the P5 coaching position. Something his father, Homer, did not do.
If they agree to fund our arena renovations, or maybe at least the new rec center, or a sustainable solution to the parking situation, then I'd consider letting them out of that portion of the agreement. That's how much money MLB should be asking for if Vanderbilt wants out. I'm tired of seeing teams throw money around to duck competition or break agreements. Either they pay enough that the university gets something meaningful to move the program forward or they march their butts to Valpo and play us like they said they would. Simple as that.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 11, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
If they agree to fund our arena renovations, or maybe at least the new rec center, or a sustainable solution to the parking situation, then I'd consider letting them out of that portion of the agreement. That's how much money MLB should be asking for if Vanderbilt wants out. I'm tired of seeing teams throw money around to duck competition or break agreements. Either they pay enough that the university gets something meaningful to move the program forward or they march their butts to Valpo and play us like they said they would. Simple as that.
How much money do you think that is to do any one of the items above? The numbers I'm thinking of is tens of millions of dollars, which no school would ever agree to, and no court would ever require a payment for.
I know I'm going to get hated on for this, but it's ironic that when Valpo tries to work its legal magic to get out of having to pay the Horizon League an exit fee most are all for that, but if Drew doesn't want to immediately honor the agreed-upon terms of his exit with Valpo for a return game (and what coach really would right after the fact?), offense is taken. Give it time for the guys he recruited and coached to cycle out of Valpo, maybe another coaching change to occur, and then he'd probably be more comfortable with coming back.
Mike Brey, before taking his current job at Notre Dame coached at Delaware until 2000. Notre Dame just played at Delaware this year, nearly 20 years later. Thad Matta left Butler in 2001 and didn't give Butler a game at Hinkle until 2008 (after his assistant that Butler hired left for Iowa). Even Shaka Smart waited until this past season (3 years and another coaching change) to play at VCU, and waited until they had their worst team in over a decade to do it.
Quote from: IrishDawg on July 11, 2018, 10:59:38 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 11, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
If they agree to fund our arena renovations, or maybe at least the new rec center, or a sustainable solution to the parking situation, then I'd consider letting them out of that portion of the agreement. That's how much money MLB should be asking for if Vanderbilt wants out. I'm tired of seeing teams throw money around to duck competition or break agreements. Either they pay enough that the university gets something meaningful to move the program forward or they march their butts to Valpo and play us like they said they would. Simple as that.
How much money do you think that is to do any one of the items above? The numbers I'm thinking of is tens of millions of dollars, which no school would ever agree to, and no court would ever require a payment for.
I know I'm going to get hated on for this, but it's ironic that when Valpo tries to work its legal magic to get out of having to pay the Horizon League an exit fee most are all for that, but if Drew doesn't want to immediately honor the agreed-upon terms of his exit with Valpo for a return game (and what coach really would right after the fact?), offense is taken. Give it time for the guys he recruited and coached to cycle out of Valpo, maybe another coaching change to occur, and then he'd probably be more comfortable with coming back.
Mike Brey, before taking his current job at Notre Dame coached at Delaware until 2000. Notre Dame just played at Delaware this year, nearly 20 years later. Thad Matta left Butler in 2001 and didn't give Butler a game at Hinkle until 2008 (after his assistant that Butler hired left for Iowa). Even Shaka Smart waited until this past season (3 years and another coaching change) to play at VCU, and waited until they had their worst team in over a decade to do it.
If you knew the nature of Valpo's initial agreement with the Horizon League when they first joined you would understand Valpo's side of the exit fee argument much better. Mine may also be incomplete and if so somebody please help fill in the gaps. Here's the basic gist: They agreed to a ridiculously high "equity buy-in" and received at the end of like 5-7 years I forget which a rolling mutual option. At the point of Valpo's acceptance into the MVC, they were essentially playing with the HL on a series of one year contracts with as I understand it, no exit fee or perhaps whatever exit fee existed at the time. Unless you new agreement contained specific language that it was meant to supersede all other agreements, Valpo has a case. Without that all-important superseding language, whatever Valpo voted for or even proposed while acting in the interest and capacity of a league member is irrelevant. Furthermore, if my memory serves, the HL by-laws also stipulated arbitration on such matters for departing members which--to the best of my knowledge of the case--was never conducted or even offered. If that's true, the league failed to honor its agreements or fulfill its obligations to Valpo, yet it seeks to hold Valpo to agreements to which they may not even be bound. And if that's true, then the very lawsuit itself is being brought forth by a party knowingly misrepresenting the facts of the case for its own gain.If everything I've put forth here is true, then that's some pretty low-down dirty pool if you ask me.
There was a rumor that we may have had Oral Roberts on our OOC schedule. We don't appear on their non-conference schedule.
https://twitter.com/ORUMBB/status/1017065962573647872
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1017104774439882752
https://espnevents.com/myrtle-beach-invitational/bracket/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=a5rhq4Iyhpw
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1017116370616676354
I thought they would put WVU and Valpo in opposite brackets. Fairly likely now that Valpo will play WVU twice in 8 days.
Quote from: EddieCabot on July 11, 2018, 01:48:02 PM
I thought they would put WVU and Valpo in opposite brackets. Fairly likely now that Valpo will play WVU twice in 8 days.
This is about the worst setup that we could have been handed. That said I'm looking forward to our first ever match with the Hilltoppers.
Quote from: justducky on July 11, 2018, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on July 11, 2018, 01:48:02 PM
I thought they would put WVU and Valpo in opposite brackets. Fairly likely now that Valpo will play WVU twice in 8 days.
This is about the worst setup that we could have been handed. That said I'm looking forward to our first ever match with the Hilltoppers.
I'm fairly pleased with the hand we were dealt. I think WKU is definitely a winnable game for us. Even if we don't beat WKU, we probably would get to play Monmouth which is one of those mid-majors I have wanted to Valpo matched up against for the last couple of seasons. If we do beat WKU, we then get 2 cracks at WVU. Any additional opportunities for our team to play power conference schools (let alone perennial sweet 16 teams), I'll take it. It will be good for us recruiting, and it will help set us up for the tough competition in the MVC. One of the things Valpo needs to improve at is ball handling and there are few if any teams that will test you in that aspect more than Press Virginia. Looking forward to seeing Valpo participate in this tournament.
QuoteI remember there was talk about Eastern Michigan dropping football and joining the HL.
Yeah, that was before the MAC signed a $100M+ contract with ESPN, based in large part on their midweek football games, and before their football team went to a bowl game in the Bahamas. EMU ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
They were a tough out last year -- gave 'Cuse everything they could handle for 35 minutes at the Carrier Dome. Would be a good, competitive series. Wouldn't do much for fan interest. Would probably be no worse than RPI-neutral. But worlds better than scheduling Chicago State or a non-D1.
Hi. WKU fan here. Looking forward to playing you guys for the first time. Any questions about our team, let me know? We are very excited this year.
Welcome to the Valpo fan board! Thanks for stopping by. Looking forward to the WKU vs. Valpo game as well. Should be a good one on a neutral court!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: mjg100 on July 12, 2018, 02:27:35 PM
Hi. WKU fan here. Looking forward to playing you guys for the first time. Any questions about our team, let me know? We are very excited this year.
Welcome. I think we Valpo folks are just hoping Mr. Bassey has freshman jitters when we play! I know we have faced 5 star players before but I'm not sure when the last time was, probably when we played Duke and North Carolina or perhaps when we played Carmelo. Now that I think about it Dwayne Bacon was a five star with Florida State. Still hoping for an exciting game!
Without Bassey we have a really good recruiting class. With him, Rivals has us ranked 19th. We have four kids that were ranked 4* coming out of high school and a 3* (Taveion Hollingsworth) that played like a 5* last year. Taveion broke the freshman scoring record held by Courtney Lee. On paper this team has the depth to go nine deep without much drop off and looks like some of our teams from the 70's. Will have to see if we have the chemistry of a good team, but from the tweets and video I have seen, they are having fun. This is the most excited I have been for our team in 20 plus years.
The other Sweet 16 team isn't Clemson either. I REALLY think it's going to be a buy-game at Purdue.
http://clemsontigers.com/clemson-announces-non-conference-schedule/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 12, 2018, 08:50:41 PM
The other Sweet 16 team isn't Clemson either. I REALLY think it's going to be a buy-game at Purdue.
http://clemsontigers.com/clemson-announces-non-conference-schedule/
If it's another game vs Purdue let's hope our best player doesn't get mono again.
Quote from: vu72 on July 12, 2018, 02:52:15 PM
Quote from: mjg100 on July 12, 2018, 02:27:35 PM
Hi. WKU fan here. Looking forward to playing you guys for the first time. Any questions about our team, let me know? We are very excited this year.
Welcome. I think we Valpo folks are just hoping Mr. Bassey has freshman jitters when we play! I know we have faced 5 star players before but I'm not sure when the last time was, probably when we played Duke and North Carolina or perhaps when we played Carmelo. Now that I think about it Dwayne Bacon was a five star with Florida State. Still hoping for an exciting game!
Time for someone to start a Myrle Beach thread?
Tried to post links to our message boards in the OOC message board thread, but I can't do links. If you do a search for: WKU message board
You should see one for Hilltopper Haven and one for 247 sports. Those are the main two. o if someone wants to add them to the OOC message board thread, please do so.
Quote from: mjg100 on July 13, 2018, 08:41:49 AMTried to post links to our message boards in the OOC message board thread, but I can't do links. If you do a search for: WKU message board You should see one for Hilltopper Haven and one for 247 sports. Those are the main two. o if someone wants to add them to the OOC message board thread, please do so.
When you get past making 5 (or is it 10) posts you'll be able to make links and some other stuff in this forum.
Quote from: mjg100 on July 13, 2018, 08:41:49 AMTried to post links to our message boards in the OOC message board thread, but I can't do links. If you do a search for: WKU message board You should see one for Hilltopper Haven and one for 247 sports. Those are the main two. o if someone wants to add them to the OOC message board thread, please do so.
I was going to wait until the schedule was officially set, but maybe I'll start sooner if no one else gets to it.
Quote from: mjg100 on July 13, 2018, 08:41:49 AM
Tried to post links to our message boards in the OOC message board thread, but I can't do links. If you do a search for: WKU message board
You should see one for Hilltopper Haven and one for 247 sports. Those are the main two. o if someone wants to add them to the OOC message board thread, please do so.
Just created a new thread topic for the Myrtle Beach Invitational: http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3194.0
I think one of these might be us.
https://twitter.com/GW_MBB/status/1019290400417353729
The Sweet 16 team on our schedule is not Nevada. But their schedule is very good.
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/1019726738853527552
I'm still going to Purdue or Syracuse as most likely. Maybe Kentucky
No scheduling news in AGES... Wonder if we'll like what we see. Just please no more non-D1s and no panic fill ins with bad teams. A well thought out challenging schedule is all I ever ask for.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 12:52:18 PM
No scheduling news in AGES... Wonder if we'll like what we see. Just please no more non-D1s and no panic fill ins with bad teams. A well thought out challenging schedule is all I ever ask for.
The schedule has probably been done for a while. VU is always one of the last to announce. I'm not sure if there will be non-D1s or not. History says there will be. Just my opinion but I'd rather play a non-D1 than a sub-300 d1 team, because at least they won't hurt RPI. But if we're already of thinking that we probably need to win the Conference Tourney to make the tourney maybe crap sub-200 isn't the worst thing in the world. Preferably I'd like to avoid non-d1s and bad low majors but we need to fill the home schedule somehow. I'm with you on wanting a challenging schedule. Next season schedule is far more important to me then this seasons schedule. I want us to set ourselves in the best position for next season.
From the away games/neutral site games we know about it sounds like we'll at least be getting some challenging opponents on the road, but the home schedule probably won't thrill many.
Why aren't we out there like Illinois State and UNI making things happen in the non-con? Is it really that hard? Look at the Redbirds' home slate. They haven't danced in 20 years but they haven't let that stop them. That's the kind of schedule we need to see next year. My philosophy has always been err on the side of too tough regardless of where you are in the cycle. It'll only be good for them. That way you at least give yourself a chance.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 27, 2018, 01:03:31 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 12:52:18 PM
No scheduling news in AGES... Wonder if we'll like what we see. Just please no more non-D1s and no panic fill ins with bad teams. A well thought out challenging schedule is all I ever ask for.
The schedule has probably been done for a while. VU is always one of the last to announce. I'm not sure if there will be non-D1s or not. History says there will be. Just my opinion but I'd rather play a non-D1 than a sub-300 d1 team, because at least they won't hurt RPI. But if we're already of thinking that we probably need to win the Conference Tourney to make the tourney maybe crap sub-200 isn't the worst thing in the world. Preferably I'd like to avoid non-d1s and bad low majors but we need to fill the home schedule somehow. I'm with you on wanting a challenging schedule. Next season schedule is far more important to me then this seasons schedule. I want us to set ourselves in the best position for next season.
From the away games/neutral site games we know about it sounds like we'll at least be getting some challenging opponents on the road, but the home schedule probably won't thrill many.
This is an out-dated paradigm that needs to change. Several MVC programs assemble better home schedules than Valpo. Mark Labarbera needs to elevate expectations and hold himself and others accountable for getting there.
Quote from: wh on July 27, 2018, 01:35:41 PM
This is an out-dated paradigm that needs to change. Several MVC programs assemble better home schedules than Valpo. Mark Labarbera needs to elevate expectations and hold himself and others accountable for getting there.
Well at least we know that we're getting one epic home game in 2019-20. But I'd like to see us consistently get home-&-homes with some of the better mid-majors in the A10/MWC or even get the mid-majors that consistently finish in the Top 125 range. We had the Rhode Island series which was awesome but those series are few are far between. Scheduling is a tough business and a lot of it comes to down to timing and getting schedules to mix and match together.
Again if Illinois State can get Ole Miss FGCU VCU BYU etc. If Loyola and even UIC can get St Joseph's If UNI can get Xavier and others If Indiana State can get Butler then why can't Valpo? We're as good a program as any of those except UNI may have us beat right now. We need more than one great home game per year. More Rhode Islands. More Belmonts. More Murray States. Even Jacksonville State would be okay, Less IU-WhoCares. The WCC and WAC are always hurting for games. Use that to get St Mary's BYU New Mexico State GCU even San Francisco San Diego or Utah Valley would be fine depending on how competitive they look. There's no reason we can't get South Dakota State to come down here. Or Vermont. Princeton Yale Harvard Cornell whoever js the best of the Ivies. Teams like that. The top teams of CUSA and the CAA, as well as the A10\MW even the AAC could\should be options for home and homes.. The MAC often has a few solid teams We don't NEED a bunch of P5 games if you get and play the right mids. That's the code. Play and beat a bunch of teams that finish in the top 100 in RPI and finish in the top 2 of their conference. Do this and not only do your tournament fortunes improve but so should gate receipts. The key is getting the word out for how good to schedule actually is.
MLB has done and is doing a fantastic job with the program and the department as a whole. He has my support my respect and my unceasing gratitude for what he has done\continues to do. Scheduling is one of the final hurdles; and that's not all on him. The coaches from Lottich on down need to work as hard on scheduling as they do on recruiting game preparation and player development. in all facets that make up a program, of which scheduling is one, demand more. The players last year showed that they would rise to a challenge. Reward them and put your faith in them by challenging them even more. No tune up games. No easing in. That's what exhibitions are for. Play as many of those as NCAA rules allow. Every regular season game needs to be a test that will prepare them for the MVC the NCAA Tournament or at least the NIT. An at-large berth to the NIT needs to be the minimum goal.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 27, 2018, 02:17:23 PMQuote from: wh on July 27, 2018, 01:35:41 PMThis is an out-dated paradigm that needs to change. Several MVC programs assemble better home schedules than Valpo. Mark Labarbera needs to elevate expectations and hold himself and others accountable for getting there.
Well at least we know that we're getting one epic home game in 2019-20. But I'd like to see us consistently get home-&-homes with some of the better mid-majors in the A10/MWC or even get the mid-majors that consistently finish in the Top 125 range. We had the Rhode Island series which was awesome but those series are few are far between. Scheduling is a tough business and a lot of it comes to down to timing and getting schedules to mix and match together.
Need to see if Coach Townsend can convince Coach Crean down in Georgia to agree to a home and home. If we start it next year it dovetails beautifully with Vanderbilt. I do think that Coach Townsend has the relationship with Coach Crean necessary to get that done.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 02:26:48 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on July 27, 2018, 02:17:23 PMQuote from: wh on July 27, 2018, 01:35:41 PMThis is an out-dated paradigm that needs to change. Several MVC programs assemble better home schedules than Valpo. Mark Labarbera needs to elevate expectations and hold himself and others accountable for getting there.
Well at least we know that we're getting one epic home game in 2019-20. But I'd like to see us consistently get home-&-homes with some of the better mid-majors in the A10/MWC or even get the mid-majors that consistently finish in the Top 125 range. We had the Rhode Island series which was awesome but those series are few are far between. Scheduling is a tough business and a lot of it comes to down to timing and getting schedules to mix and match together.
I'm sure they have a fine relationship but you normally only see those former player-coach connection series come together when the former player gets a head coaching job. It would be awesome if there is anyway that could happen but I'm not optimistic.
Any word on who that other S16 team is? Purdue only officially announced 3 opponents. I'd be surprised if we were on their schedule back-to-back years but you never know.
A lot of the Top programs slowly release their schedule to try and milk the news cycle.
Like I said I think it's either
1. @Purdue
2. @Kentucky
3. Syracuse Possibly neutral site
I guess it's not all bad. We could be Bradley... This schedule is terrible. May have to give Wardle the nickname Baker Brian for all these cupcakes. Bradley may be the Braves but this schedule is anything but.
https://bradleybraves.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
Quote from: VU2014 on July 27, 2018, 02:17:23 PM
Well at least we know that we're getting one epic home game in 2019-20.
Which game is that? I'm too lazy to go back an re-read the thread.
Vanderbilt They're finally going to pay off the Bryce contract.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 04:19:49 PM
Vanderbilt They're finally going to pay off the Bryce contract.
Thanks! :thumbsup:
Quote from: EddieCabot on July 27, 2018, 04:30:03 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 04:19:49 PM
Vanderbilt They're finally going to pay off the Bryce contract.
Thanks! :thumbsup:
I don't think that has been confirmed. Bryce wanted to wait so he didn't have to play against players he recruited. Those would include Derrik Smits and Micah Bradford, though neither actually played for him so perhaps it will get started this coming season.
Quote from: vu72 on July 27, 2018, 06:16:25 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on July 27, 2018, 04:30:03 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 04:19:49 PM
Vanderbilt They're finally going to pay off the Bryce contract.
Thanks! :thumbsup:
I don't think that has been confirmed. Bryce wanted to wait so he didn't have to play against players he recruited. Those would include Derrik Smits and Micah Bradford, though neither actually played for him so perhaps it will get started this coming season.
It's been confirmed by Vandy's AD to mlb that in 2019-20 Vanderbilt will come to the ARC and in 2020-21 Valpo will play at Vandy.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 02:22:27 PMAgain if Illinois State can get Ole Miss FGCU VCU BYU etc. If Loyola and even UIC can get St Joseph's If UNI can get Xavier and others If Indiana State can get Butler then why can't Valpo?
Have you seen our "Gym". Why would any top 150 want to come and play in a high school gym. It's a big problem that never gets addressed. These next two years are critical ( both facilities and team performance ) for the program and being successful moving forward.
Quote from: Chairback on July 28, 2018, 09:31:14 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 02:22:27 PMAgain if Illinois State can get Ole Miss FGCU VCU BYU etc. If Loyola and even UIC can get St Joseph's If UNI can get Xavier and others If Indiana State can get Butler then why can't Valpo?
Have you seen our "Gym". Why would any top 150 want to come and play in a high school gym. It's a big problem that never gets addressed. These next two years are critical ( both facilities and team performance ) for the program and being successful moving forward.
And you have the chance to move the whole process along with helping fund the improvements to the ARC starting with the
AC for the ARC fund. Now is the time more than ever.
See address in my signature.
Quote from: Chairback on July 28, 2018, 09:31:14 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 02:22:27 PMAgain if Illinois State can get Ole Miss FGCU VCU BYU etc. If Loyola and even UIC can get St Joseph's If UNI can get Xavier and others If Indiana State can get Butler then why can't Valpo?
Have you seen our "Gym". Why would any top 150 want to come and play in a high school gym. It's a big problem that never gets addressed. These next two years are critical ( both facilities and team performance ) for the program and being successful moving forward.
I don't know. Why did Rhode Island Creighton and Nevada all want to go to St Mary's and their high school gym?
Quote from: historyman on July 28, 2018, 09:37:15 AMQuote from: Chairback on July 28, 2018, 09:31:14 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 02:22:27 PMAgain if Illinois State can get Ole Miss FGCU VCU BYU etc. If Loyola and even UIC can get St Joseph's If UNI can get Xavier and others If Indiana State can get Butler then why can't Valpo?
Have you seen our "Gym". Why would any top 150 want to come and play in a high school gym. It's a big problem that never gets addressed. These next two years are critical ( both facilities and team performance ) for the program and being successful moving forward.
And you have the chance to move the whole process along with helping fund the improvements to the ARC starting with the AC for the ARC fund. Now is the time more than ever. See address in my signature.
How is the campaign going by the way?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 28, 2018, 09:45:01 AM
Quote from: Chairback on July 28, 2018, 09:31:14 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 02:22:27 PMAgain if Illinois State can get Ole Miss FGCU VCU BYU etc. If Loyola and even UIC can get St Joseph's If UNI can get Xavier and others If Indiana State can get Butler then why can't Valpo?
Have you seen our "Gym". Why would any top 150 want to come and play in a high school gym. It's a big problem that never gets addressed. These next two years are critical ( both facilities and team performance ) for the program and being successful moving forward.
I don't know. Why did Rhode Island Creighton and Nevada all want to go to St Mary's and their high school gym?
I think that mostly has to do with St Mary's success and scarcity of good teams to play while on the west coast.
Here are the details about McKeon Pavilion that mostly back up your claim that it is a high school gym.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKeon_Pavilion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKeon_Pavilion)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on July 28, 2018, 09:47:53 AM
Quote from: historyman on July 28, 2018, 09:37:15 AMQuote from: Chairback on July 28, 2018, 09:31:14 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 02:22:27 PMAgain if Illinois State can get Ole Miss FGCU VCU BYU etc. If Loyola and even UIC can get St Joseph's If UNI can get Xavier and others If Indiana State can get Butler then why can't Valpo?
Have you seen our "Gym". Why would any top 150 want to come and play in a high school gym. It's a big problem that never gets addressed. These next two years are critical ( both facilities and team performance ) for the program and being successful moving forward.
And you have the chance to move the whole process along with helping fund the improvements to the ARC starting with the AC for the ARC fund. Now is the time more than ever. See address in my signature.
How is the campaign going by the way?
Like a lot of people Kris Sanders was on vacation last week (7/16 through 7/20) and I let her get caught up this past week. I'm planning on catching up with her this next week (7/30 through 8/3).
Quote from: historyman on July 28, 2018, 09:56:41 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 28, 2018, 09:45:01 AMQuote from: Chairback on July 28, 2018, 09:31:14 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on July 27, 2018, 02:22:27 PMAgain if Illinois State can get Ole Miss FGCU VCU BYU etc. If Loyola and even UIC can get St Joseph's If UNI can get Xavier and others If Indiana State can get Butler then why can't Valpo?
Have you seen our "Gym". Why would any top 150 want to come and play in a high school gym. It's a big problem that never gets addressed. These next two years are critical ( both facilities and team performance ) for the program and being successful moving forward.
I don't know. Why did Rhode Island Creighton and Nevada all want to go to St Mary's and their high school gym?
I think that mostly has to do with St Mary's success and scarcity of good teams to play while on the west coast. Here are the details about McKeon Pavilion that mostly back up your claim that it is a high school gym. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKeon_Pavilion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKeon_Pavilion)
That gym's a joke. The ARC looks amazing as it is right now compared to that.
Congratulations to him on getting a new gig and all, but this probably means we'll keep wasting crucial nonconference slots playing this non-D1 team doesn't it?
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1023746777562767360
If there is gonna be a game for old time sakes, just make it an exhibition, period.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 27, 2018, 01:03:31 PM
The schedule has probably been done for a while. VU is always one of the last to announce.
Smart ploy. Announcing the schedule during the summer while students aren't on campus takes away some of the buzz. Also, the new marketing company might have new ideas on how to create more interest ... maybe releasing game by game on Twitter or using Facebook Live.
Quote from: EddieCabot on July 30, 2018, 11:43:41 AMQuote from: VU2014 on July 27, 2018, 01:03:31 PMThe schedule has probably been done for a while. VU is always one of the last to announce.
Smart ploy. Announcing the schedule during the summer while students aren't on campus takes away some of the buzz. Also, the new marketing company might have new ideas on how to create more interest ... maybe releasing game by game on Twitter or using Facebook Live.
Let's start with a commitment to better nonconference games both home and away.
Yeah, ideally we get BOTH steak AND sizzle in the new schedule release.
Hate to start harping already on student attendance, but student leadership and numbers is a much bigger factor in home court advantage than a new gym or better opponents.
Just REALLY wanting to be proven wrong this year in our conference games and in our best pre-conference ones.
Ball State (who I presume is on the schedule this year) makes the top 144 list at #96. They look like a very dangerous team.
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/16463
If healthy, BSU should be VERY good. Return everyone (except Sean Sellers) from a 19-win team that beat ND in South Bend. Adds two SEC transfers (Arkansas and Missouri) plus a 6-11 freshman who redshirted last year. Will be a year removed from dealing with the death of a teammate. They were on pace to go to the tourney last year until some late-season attrition caused them to fade at the end (two guys got suspended during conference play, plus a fifth-year senior who was one of the school's all-time leaders in 3-pt FG percentage contracted a case of the yips and basically could only be used a few minutes per game on defense for the last month of the season). BSU basically finished the season with a 7-man rotation, one of whom was a walk-on.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on August 06, 2018, 09:09:56 AM
If healthy, BSU should be VERY good. Return everyone (except Sean Sellers) from a 19-win team that beat ND in South Bend. Adds two SEC transfers (Arkansas and Missouri) plus a 6-11 freshman who redshirted last year. Will be a year removed from dealing with the death of a teammate. They were on pace to go to the tourney last year until some late-season attrition caused them to fade at the end (two guys got suspended during conference play, plus a fifth-year senior who was one of the school's all-time leaders in 3-pt FG percentage contracted a case of the yips and basically could only be used a few minutes per game on defense for the last month of the season). BSU basically finished the season with a 7-man rotation, one of whom was a walk-on.
I think we absolutely can beat these guys. I thought last years team could beat them and we nearly did. If Tevonn Walker played in that game I can guarantee you Persons wouldn't go off like he did that game and we win that game.
It should be a great and competitive game at the ARC this season.
Why is there still no schedule news?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 09, 2018, 11:23:38 PM
Why is there still no schedule news?
We're always one of the last to announce. It will probably get release sometime in the next few weeks. The schedule didn't get released till August 29 last year.
Do you think we're going to be happy with what we hear or have we pretty much heard all the big stories?
Is the MVC schedule set? I didn't find on their website.
If not, do we have puzzle pieces from individual schools who have made any dates known?
Game at GW on December 8 made official.
It makes sense to give GW the first home game in this situation. We need to set ourselves up for the 2019-20 season. Hopefully GW will be stronger next season. GW is predicted to be one of the weaker A10 programs this upcoming season.
Still a solid enough series. I'm fine with this. If every game is at least that good we'll be fine.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 04:45:30 PM
Still a solid enough series. I'm fine with this. If every game is at least that good we'll be fine.
Unfortunately we'll be having a few non-d1s on the schedule this season. I don't see those going away anytime soon.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 13, 2018, 05:31:32 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 04:45:30 PM
Still a solid enough series. I'm fine with this. If every game is at least that good we'll be fine.
Unfortunately we'll be having a few non-d1s on the schedule this season. I don't see those going away anytime soon.
A FEW?!!! They'd better be exhibitions. You can't schedule multiple non-D1s and schools like UC-Riverside and SIU-Edwardsville and then complain about declining attendance numbers. This was a year to start loading up in preparation for next year and it's the same crap. If and when the MVC gets multiple bids this coming year they're going to be really sorry they went soft again and put their eggs in the Arch Madness basket. Illinois State got it done UNI gets it done routinely, Missouri State, SIU, and Evansville are getting the message and here we are doing the same thing we've always done. If we miss out on the tournament again in the future because of this "it doesn't hurt our RPI," and "its what we've always done." horse crap I know I won't be the only fan upset. Only this time, it won't be at the committee because it will show that we haven't learned anything and the drumbeat of "buyer's remorse" and "we should have added Murray State instead" will only get louder among the other fanbases in this conference. The old way wasn't working. That's why we joined the MVC in the first place. Now, the scheduling needs to evolve too if we really want to move forward and consistently contend. Our coaches and athletic department do such a good job on everything else, so in some respects I'm sorry for this rant; and I know it's hard, but for God's sake if Illinois State can do it so can we. It's just going to take a little extra hard work.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 13, 2018, 03:52:14 PM
It makes sense to give GW the first home game in this situation. We need to set ourselves up for the 2019-20 season. Hopefully GW will be stronger next season. GW is predicted to be one of the weaker A10 programs this upcoming season.
Lot of things need to go right for that home game to be worthwhile. Biggest things are their 3 eligible transfers need to pan out and they need to develop their younger guys (who for the most part weren't even average offensively last year).
Ball State being the highlight of the nonconference home slate would be a huge disappointment.
EMU has put out a public call for games
I've seen similar from Murray State VCU and others.
MAC schools are in home and homes with HL schools
Good teams in the WCC and WAC need to fill empty spots
St Joseph's has been and will be in Chicago
And our answer is to schedule multiple non-D1s and then call out the students for low attendance.
I think we need to start with more aggressive scheduling and go from there.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 07:11:10 PM
I think we need to start with more aggressive scheduling and go from there.
It's not for a lack of trying. The Coaches are making the calls. You can't hold a gun to coaches head and demand they schedule a series with us. Many of the quality series mid-major programs get are through connections. I do wish the home schedule would be consistently better, but we need to give things a little time. I think over the course of the next few years VU will be able to land more quality series. We know we have to Vandy game in our back pocket. The away schedule is tougher this season.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 13, 2018, 07:09:48 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 13, 2018, 03:52:14 PM
It makes sense to give GW the first home game in this situation. We need to set ourselves up for the 2019-20 season. Hopefully GW will be stronger next season. GW is predicted to be one of the weaker A10 programs this upcoming season.
Lot of things need to go right for that home game to be worthwhile. Biggest things are their 3 eligible transfers need to pan out and they need to develop their younger guys (who for the most part weren't even average offensively last year).
I know it's way too early to be talking at-large but if we have any chance of getting a at-large bid it would be that season, because of all the upperclassman and guys would have tons of experience playing with each other (other than Gordon and Robinson). The program needs to be in a at-large bid mindset and schedule accordingly. Time will tell but that team has the chance to be the next special VU team if everything comes together.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 13, 2018, 07:43:33 PM
I know it's way too early to be talking at-large but if we have any chance of getting a at-large bid it would be that season, because of all the upperclassman and guys would have tons of experience playing with each other (other than Gordon and Robinson). The program needs to be in a at-large bid mindset and schedule accordingly. Time will tell but that team has the chance to be the next special VU team if everything comes together.
Sorry for not making it more clear, but
George Washington has to have a lot go right to be a worthwhile opponent for Valpo in 19-20. I'm confident Valpo will be a good team in 19-20 assuming no major roster changes.
Please let Powell Diebler Ragland Manuel and Tonagel be hired as head coaches in decent non MVC places in the near future. And please let Tom Crean Scott Drew and Matt Painter be receptive to series with return games. Our schedule needs this.
If Brandon Newman plays for Purdue we may have a shot at 2-for-1 like we did for the Hummel series. The only thing is that was a different era of CBB and scheduling has changed since then.
Even if Brandon choses a different school maybe they'd give him a home game in his hometown. His stock has shot through the roof the last few months.
Don't get me wrong I understand the challenges, I really do, but you can't tell me that you've watched what Illinois State has done the past two years and UNI consistently does and haven't come away just a little disappointed that it hasn't happened for us yet. We have the potential to become equal to or greater than any program in the MVC and I am desperate to see that potential realized. Sometimes that comes off as impatience but it's more like passion. When you're passionate about something you want to see it prosper you want to see it become great. You want to see progress in all fronts and scheduling is coming along but a bit slowly. Since we're still paying off series we concluded as a member of the HL it's somewhat understandable but I just don't see why elimination of the non-D1s or their confinement to the exhibition portion of the schedule is a goal that hasn't happened yet. It would be a sure and obvious sign of progress but I guess the non-D1s do save us from having to return games against bad teams which would make a one year problem a two year problem. I don't know I just want more than 1-2 home games per year that I can really get excited about. They don't have to be P5 I just don't get why we as a strong mid don't see a bunch more strong mids on the schedule. It seems like birds of a feather should flock together.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 13, 2018, 08:15:14 PMIf Brandon Newman plays for Purdue we may have a shot at 2-for-1 like we did for the Hummel series. The only thing is that was a different era of CBB and scheduling has changed since then. Even if Brandon choses a different school maybe they'd give him a home game in his hometown. His stock has shot through the roof the last few months.
Are you hearing that he is leaning toward Purdue or are you just using Purdue as an example because it happened before? Also might his decision to go to prep school hurt our chances of getting such a series? Also who's to say Purdue won't do something similar for Sasha? What decent basketball school is closer to Crown Point than VU?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 08:33:57 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 13, 2018, 08:15:14 PMIf Brandon Newman plays for Purdue we may have a shot at 2-for-1 like we did for the Hummel series. The only thing is that was a different era of CBB and scheduling has changed since then. Even if Brandon choses a different school maybe they'd give him a home game in his hometown. His stock has shot through the roof the last few months.
Are you hearing that he is leaning toward Purdue or are you just using Purdue as an example because it happened before? Also might his decision to go to prep school hurt our chances of getting such a series? Also who's to say Purdue won't do something similar for Sasha? What decent basketball school is closer to Crown Point than VU?
I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on this idea, but Purdue is only an hour from Crown Point vs 1/2 hour to Valpo. It's not like Crown Point fans can't see him unless he plays a game at Valpo.
Others may know the answer, but was the Purdue-Valpo series agreed to when both Hummel AND Martin were there?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 08:28:47 PM
Don't get me wrong I understand the challenges, I really do, but you can't tell me that you've watched what Illinois State has done the past two years and UNI consistently does and haven't come away just a little disappointed that it hasn't happened for us yet. We have the potential to become equal to or greater than any program in the MVC and I am desperate to see that potential realized. Sometimes that comes off as impatience but it's more like passion. When you're passionate about something you want to see it prosper you want to see it become great. You want to see progress in all fronts and scheduling is coming along but a bit slowly. Since we're still paying off series we concluded as a member of the HL it's somewhat understandable but I just don't see why elimination of the non-D1s or their confinement to the exhibition portion of the schedule is a goal that hasn't happened yet. It would be a sure and obvious sign of progress but I guess the non-D1s do save us from having to return games against bad teams which would make a one year problem a two year problem. I don't know I just want more than 1-2 home games per year that I can really get excited about. They don't have to be P5 I just don't get why we as a strong mid don't see a bunch more strong mids on the schedule. It seems like birds of a feather should flock together.
Lots of really good points here. You'd think that Valpo could easily schedule home-and-home series with MAC schools or even nearby HL/Summit schools like UIC/UWM/FW/IUPUI. I know Valpo is somewhat above those schools, but those road games would be easy road trips for Valpo fans and would be in cities with Valpo alumni bases.
However, as 1314 points out, it may take a few years for Valpo to fully leverage their MVC status to improve the schedule. I'm willing to wait and see what happens. The GW series is a huge step in the right direction.
I think if we can turn in a top 100-125 RPI this year we could tempt them to come here in 19-20 or 20-21 because we'd show them decent potential of being a Q1 road game for them.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 13, 2018, 10:01:52 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 08:28:47 PMDon't get me wrong I understand the challenges, I really do, but you can't tell me that you've watched what Illinois State has done the past two years and UNI consistently does and haven't come away just a little disappointed that it hasn't happened for us yet. We have the potential to become equal to or greater than any program in the MVC and I am desperate to see that potential realized. Sometimes that comes off as impatience but it's more like passion. When you're passionate about something you want to see it prosper you want to see it become great. You want to see progress in all fronts and scheduling is coming along but a bit slowly. Since we're still paying off series we concluded as a member of the HL it's somewhat understandable but I just don't see why elimination of the non-D1s or their confinement to the exhibition portion of the schedule is a goal that hasn't happened yet. It would be a sure and obvious sign of progress but I guess the non-D1s do save us from having to return games against bad teams which would make a one year problem a two year problem. I don't know I just want more than 1-2 home games per year that I can really get excited about. They don't have to be P5 I just don't get why we as a strong mid don't see a bunch more strong mids on the schedule. It seems like birds of a feather should flock together.
Lots of really good points here. You'd think that Valpo could easily schedule home-and-home series with MAC schools or even nearby HL/Summit schools like UIC/UWM/FW/IUPUI. I know Valpo is somewhat above those schools, but those road games would be easy road trips for Valpo fans and would be in cities with Valpo alumni bases. However, as 1314 points out, it may take a few years for Valpo to fully leverage their MVC status to improve the schedule. I'm willing to wait and see what happens. The GW series is a huge step in the right direction.
That post was a nod to VU2014's point that I need to give it a bit more time. I agree on the significance of the GW series and that MAC teams UIC UWM IUPUI and FW and other HL\SL teams would be so much better than any non-D1 from an SOS standpoint and a fan interest standpoint. And what's more not only do they offer better preparation for MVC play they will also prove far more instructive for where our team stands in a given year. The big potential matter that hurts this plan is the HL's lawsuit which to my knowledge is still pending though we have scheduled HL teams in other sports this year.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 08:33:57 PM
Are you hearing that he is leaning toward Purdue or are you just using Purdue as an example because it happened before? Also might his decision to go to prep school hurt our chances of getting such a series? Also who's to say Purdue won't do something similar for Sasha? What decent basketball school is closer to Crown Point than VU?
I haven't heard an update on his recruitment in a while since the VHS coach was taken out of the picture as an advisor in his recruitment. It sounds like others have sort of been advising him on recruitment/prep school/etc. I'm out of the loop but last I heard was that Purdue liked him a lot and the interest was real.
It sounds like Sasha Stefanovic isn't going anywhere and the only way I see that possibly changing is if he really struggles in his role at PU and gets buried on the bench for a season or two.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 13, 2018, 09:54:02 PM
Others may know the answer, but was the Purdue-Valpo series agreed to when both Hummel AND Martin were there?
It's my understanding that the series was scheduled while Robbie and Martin were on Purdue's roster, Martin transferred to ND before the series started. It really was a series for Hummel. It's common to see teams give upperclassmen a game close or very near to their hometown. Probably helps that Homer was widely respected coach and could have also been doing him a solid.
Stefanovic has already used up his red-shirt year. If he stays for for 2 more years and then decides to transfer due to lack of playing time, he'll have to sit out a year and only have 1 year of playing time remaining. What a wasted collegiate career that would be. Goes to show that if you burn a year as a redshirt, you're really committing to that school.
Quote from: VUGrad1314A FEW?!!! They'd better be exhibitions. You can't schedule multiple non-D1s and schools like UC-Riverside and SIU-Edwardsville and then complain about declining attendance numbers. This was a year to start loading up in preparation for next year and it's the same crap. If and when the MVC gets multiple bids this coming year they're going to be really sorry they went soft again and put their eggs in the Arch Madness basket. Illinois State got it done UNI gets it done routinely, Missouri State, SIU, and Evansville are getting the message and here we are doing the same thing we've always done. If we miss out on the tournament again in the future because of this "it doesn't hurt our RPI," and "its what we've always done." horse crap I know I won't be the only fan upset. Only this time, it won't be at the committee because it will show that we haven't learned anything and the drumbeat of "buyer's remorse" and "we should have added Murray State instead" will only get louder among the other fanbases in this conference. The old way wasn't working. That's why we joined the MVC in the first place. Now, the scheduling needs to evolve too if we really want to move forward and consistently contend. Our coaches and athletic department do such a good job on everything else, so in some respects I'm sorry for this rant; and I know it's hard, but for God's sake if Illinois State can do it so can we. It's just going to take a little extra hard work.
???
Chill.
I have to assume there's a second game out east coupled with the GW game somehow right? Can't see that trip being a one-off, though perhaps it is given how close that is to finals. Wonder who it could be.
Some UNLV roster news. It seems they've just gotten a little tougher.
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/1027333071291310080
Quote from: may know on August 14, 2018, 06:08:53 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314A FEW?!!! They'd better be exhibitions. You can't schedule multiple non-D1s and schools like UC-Riverside and SIU-Edwardsville and then complain about declining attendance numbers. This was a year to start loading up in preparation for next year and it's the same crap. If and when the MVC gets multiple bids this coming year they're going to be really sorry they went soft again and put their eggs in the Arch Madness basket. Illinois State got it done UNI gets it done routinely, Missouri State, SIU, and Evansville are getting the message and here we are doing the same thing we've always done. If we miss out on the tournament again in the future because of this "it doesn't hurt our RPI," and "its what we've always done." horse crap I know I won't be the only fan upset. Only this time, it won't be at the committee because it will show that we haven't learned anything and the drumbeat of "buyer's remorse" and "we should have added Murray State instead" will only get louder among the other fanbases in this conference. The old way wasn't working. That's why we joined the MVC in the first place. Now, the scheduling needs to evolve too if we really want to move forward and consistently contend. Our coaches and athletic department do such a good job on everything else, so in some respects I'm sorry for this rant; and I know it's hard, but for God's sake if Illinois State can do it so can we. It's just going to take a little extra hard work.
???
Chill.
How certain are we that a non-D1 is on our schedule? Also regarding SIU, what about their exhibition schedule?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 15, 2018, 06:34:12 AM
How certain are we that a non-D1 is on our schedule? Also regarding SIU, what about their exhibition schedule?
I'll bet anything that SIU will have at least one non-D1 team on their exhibition schedule.
EVERYBODY plays non-D1s in the exhibition schedule. That's what those spots are for. That's where your "tune up games" go. Our problem is that we like to stick 2-3 more of these games where they should not or should I say cannot go. The margin is so thin for schools like VU so not doing everything possible to maximize these precious few opportunities is foolish not just from an at-large bid standpoint but also from a preparation for conference play standpoint, Non-D1s serve literally no purpose. They don't prepare you for conference play, attendance suffers, I don't even think they help struggling players "get some confidence" because a D1 team is supposed to win those games and win them handily. SOS matters the committee can't look too favorably on a team will 27-28 wins in a non-power league when only 24-25 of those are D1 wins. At that point, you're just helping their argument to your own exclusion given the beating the NCSOS takes. Instead of a non-D1, play an old HL or mid-con\SL rival an OVC team, a CUSA or Sun Belt team or a MAC team. Go play the expected top to middle half of those leagues. You still most likely get a home game most years, if the team is decent RPI doesn't suffer much if at all, most years you should have a good chance to win the game, and it might even be a win the committee notices\is impressed by. These teams often struggle to get good games too so it's a win-win. It might be the difference between getting a bid and not, and if nothing else, you boost your chances of at least getting into the NIT.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 15, 2018, 06:34:12 AM
Quote from: may know on August 14, 2018, 06:08:53 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314A FEW?!!! They'd better be exhibitions. You can't schedule multiple non-D1s and schools like UC-Riverside and SIU-Edwardsville and then complain about declining attendance numbers. This was a year to start loading up in preparation for next year and it's the same crap. If and when the MVC gets multiple bids this coming year they're going to be really sorry they went soft again and put their eggs in the Arch Madness basket. Illinois State got it done UNI gets it done routinely, Missouri State, SIU, and Evansville are getting the message and here we are doing the same thing we've always done. If we miss out on the tournament again in the future because of this "it doesn't hurt our RPI," and "its what we've always done." horse crap I know I won't be the only fan upset. Only this time, it won't be at the committee because it will show that we haven't learned anything and the drumbeat of "buyer's remorse" and "we should have added Murray State instead" will only get louder among the other fanbases in this conference. The old way wasn't working. That's why we joined the MVC in the first place. Now, the scheduling needs to evolve too if we really want to move forward and consistently contend. Our coaches and athletic department do such a good job on everything else, so in some respects I'm sorry for this rant; and I know it's hard, but for God's sake if Illinois State can do it so can we. It's just going to take a little extra hard work.
???
Chill.
How certain are we that a non-D1 is on our schedule? Also regarding SIU, what about their exhibition schedule?
Quote from: VU2014 on August 13, 2018, 05:31:32 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 13, 2018, 04:45:30 PMStill a solid enough series. I'm fine with this. If every game is at least that good we'll be fine.
Unfortunately we'll be having a few non-d1s on the schedule this season. I don't see those going away anytime soon.
Based on this post.
I asked someone who has seen the schedule and they said there will be non-D1s. I didn't directly ask if they were exhibitions, but it came off as if at least one will be a tune-up game.
I guess I could live with one; but if you want multiple tune up games, why not just schedule 2-3 exhibition games or as many as the NCAA will allow you to play instead of letting that bleed into the regular season when the games count? After all, no matter when you play the non-D1 it's as if it doesn't count anyway it's just taking up\wasting precious nonconference space outside of the exhibition period.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 15, 2018, 12:16:58 PMI asked someone who has seen the schedule and they said there will be non-D1s. I didn't directly ask if they were exhibitions, but it came off as if at least one will be a tune-up game.
How can we get across to the folks with decision-making power that scheduling is a huge concern to the fanbase and many of us would like them to keep these games to the exhibition portion of the season? MVC teams should be able to get home games\series with any team outside the top 7 conferences, and even with some within the top 7. If you're just trying to fill slots, why not just take a buy game and bring in more money to the athletic department? Then if you win you actually get something significant or some real confidence instead of nothing if you win and a debilitating loss if you lose? If you lose a buy game nothing really happens because you're expected to lose.
Members of the Athletics Department occasionally read this board, so they know the concerns. I feel like they've tried implemented some of the suggestions that have been proposed on this board.
As much as I get annoyed with non-D1s they do actually serve a purpose. They don't affect the RPI and they can be used for tune up games to get the young players experience and also the coaches to experiment a bit more. It just sucks for fans because you want to see the team tested against quality competition and play strong opponents. It's fine for exhibitions but ideally I'd want to see us to only play Top 200-225. Scheduling is a tricky business for all mid-majors.
Right I just find the notion that we can't get a top 200-225 team to come here and have to resort to non-D1s a bit silly. I really think weeks of preseason practice and the max number of exhibition games is enough time for tinkering\experimentation and finding out what works particularly when you don't have a bunch of freshmen.
Just did some digging and from what I gather there is no maximum for exhibitions. Therefore, there's literally no excuse not to load up on these to get our non-D1 tune up jollies and no reason to waste regular season slots on them.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 15, 2018, 01:28:41 PM
Just did some digging and from what I gather there is no maximum for exhibitions. Therefore, there's literally no excuse not to load up on these to get our non-D1 tune up jollies and no reason to waste regular season slots on them.
Allowed two exhibition games against non-D1 opponents. Can replace one of those games with a closed scrimmage against another D1 team.
So that's 2 non D1 exhibitions or 1 non-D1 exhibition + 1 closed scrimmage right? I respectfully submit that that's enough tune up time. It'd be even better if the NCAA would allow 2 non-D1 exhibitions + 1-2 closed scrimmages as a means of eliminating schedule fluff and strengthening nonconference schedules across the board as coaches feel less need to load up on easy games early. Also punish P5 teams that gorge themselves on cupcakes early and rely on their in-conference schedule to get them into the tournament.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 15, 2018, 02:43:31 PM
So that's 2 non D1 exhibitions or 1 non-D1 exhibition + 1 closed scrimmage right? I respectfully submit that that's enough tune up time. It'd be even better if the NCAA would allow 2 non-D1 exhibitions + 1-2 closed scrimmages as a means of eliminating schedule fluff and strengthening nonconference schedules across the board as coaches feel less need to load up on easy games early. Also punish P5 teams that gorge themselves on cupcakes early and rely on their in-conference schedule to get them into the tournament.
I'm down with this, but any ideas on exactly how should we punish Cleveland State for this?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 15, 2018, 02:43:31 PM
So that's 2 non D1 exhibitions or 1 non-D1 exhibition + 1 closed scrimmage right? I respectfully submit that that's enough tune up time. It'd be even better if the NCAA would allow 2 non-D1 exhibitions + 1-2 closed scrimmages as a means of eliminating schedule fluff and strengthening nonconference schedules across the board as coaches feel less need to load up on easy games early. Also punish P5 teams that gorge themselves on cupcakes early and rely on their in-conference schedule to get them into the tournament.
Normally, though last year the NCAA allowed an extra exhibition game if the funds made were donated to hurricane relief.
I completely disagree with the 2nd piece of your post. Increasing the number of closed scrimmages would almost completely eliminate the opportunity for a mid-major to get a home and home (or any type of series that would result in a home game) with a power program, because the exact opposite would occur, given those programs would still want a certain number of home games for revenue, and then the remainder of their OOC schedule would be their neutral site tournament games and conference challenge games. As much as you might want to see the NCAA legislation "force" major conferences to give games to mid-major programs, that would be the quickest way to those conferences getting fed up and leaving the NCAA, which would then take all of that TV money which funds the tourney shares away. I completely understand your frustration, but that wouldn't be the way that I think would get you the result you'd like for Valpo's non-conference schedule.
I didn't mean for those extra scrimmages to come at the expense of any nonconference games (still 9 + an MTE) just starting the exhibitions\scrimmages earlier so that there's more time to play them. I agree that legislating against the P5 is a good way to get them to leave but what can we do? Something has to be done to at least give teams at our level a chance. Maybe the committee stating that they will be emphasizing NCSOS or would this only cause P5 teams to play each other more?
Also who is our second sweet 16 opponent? Are we going back to Mackey to play the Boilermakers?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 14, 2018, 10:54:11 PM
I have to assume there's a second game out east coupled with the GW game somehow right? Can't see that trip being a one-off, though perhaps it is given how close that is to finals. Wonder who it could be.
Agree. Lot's of schools in/near DC ... Georgetown, Maryland, UMBC and Towson, just off the top of my head. G-town and Maryland would probably be buy games, but that game would more than pay for the trip and put some $ in the air conditioning fund.
We are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.
If the game is worth it (Maryland Georgetown VCU George Mason Marshall Pitt Duquesne Penn State Cincinnati Xavier etc.) we should absolutely take it though.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 15, 2018, 06:50:52 PM
We are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.
Two games on one OOC road trip isn't unreasonable. The less travel the better.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 15, 2018, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 15, 2018, 06:50:52 PM
We are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.
Two games on one OOC road trip isn't unreasonable. The less travel the better.
I'll believe At-Large even exists for Valpo when I see the current MVC produce one. I'm still skeptical that the current NCAA committee sees this conference as A10 multi-bid equivalent. We have work ahead of us and Loyola set a stupendous foundation that must continue for MVC legitimacy to arrive.
Therefore I say schedule the most home games you can get while still preparing the team for conference. In the end, does having a road P5 in lieu of a home non-D1 add value?
If it's (1) non-D1 exhibition + (1) non-D1 OOC then I'm down with that program. Again, who else of national recognition is coming to the ARC guys? Rhode Island was amazing, but how many Rhode Island's are coming to Valpo? They aren't lining up, so let's make sue and give the team a deserved home game that wouldn't be otherwise.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 15, 2018, 07:35:42 PMQuote from: VU2014 on August 15, 2018, 07:16:03 PMQuote from: elephtheria47 on August 15, 2018, 06:50:52 PMWe are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.
Two games on one OOC road trip isn't unreasonable. The less travel the better.
I'll believe At-Large even exists for Valpo when I see the current MVC produce one. I'm still skeptical that the current NCAA committee sees this conference as A10 multi-bid equivalent. We have work ahead of us and Loyola set a stupendous foundation that must continue for MVC legitimacy to arrive. Therefore I say schedule the most home games you can get while still preparing the team for conference. In the end, does having a road P5 in lieu of a home non-D1 add value? If it's (1) non-D1 exhibition + (1) non-D1 OOC then I'm down with that program. Again, who else of national recognition is coming to the ARC guys? Rhode Island was amazing, but how many Rhode Island's are coming to Valpo? They aren't lining up, so let's make sue and give the team a deserved home game that wouldn't be otherwise.
While I agree that we should try to get as many home games as possible and I sympathize with the plight of mid-major scheduling. I know it's hard but I refuse to believe it's impossible. If even Barry Hinson is juicing his schedule with two games against the Buffalo Bulls, there's no reason to believe it is. Win a lot of games against a top 80-100 overall slate and you can beat out the last few mediocre P5 teams for bids.Assuming at-large doesn't exist for the MVC is the surest and only way to ensure beyond a doubt that you're right. For now, I can grudgingly accept one non-D1 game I guess but I respectfully submit: does an easy layup game against a non-D1 really add value even though it was a home game? Fans don't get up for it and I bet honestly neither do the players really. I think they'd honestly get more value out of a buy game because it's at least a chance to make a statement and get a signature win.
Hey Paul, when can we expect the next Union Street Hoops!?!? Appreciate all that you do, please keep up the great work.
Quote from: may know on August 14, 2018, 06:08:53 PMA FEW?!!! They'd better be exhibitions. You can't schedule multiple non-D1s and schools like UC-Riverside and SIU-Edwardsville and then complain about declining attendance numbers. This was a year to start loading up in preparation for next year and it's the same crap. If and when the MVC gets multiple bids this coming year they're going to be really sorry they went soft again and put their eggs in the Arch Madness basket. Illinois State got it done UNI gets it done routinely, Missouri State, SIU, and Evansville are getting the message and here we are doing the same thing we've always done. If we miss out on the tournament again in the future because of this "it doesn't hurt our RPI," and "its what we've always done." horse crap I know I won't be the only fan upset. Only this time, it won't be at the committee because it will show that we haven't learned anything and the drumbeat of "buyer's remorse" and "we should have added Murray State instead" will only get louder among the other fanbases in this conference. The old way wasn't working. That's why we joined the MVC in the first place. Now, the scheduling needs to evolve too if we really want to move forward and consistently contend. Our coaches and athletic department do such a good job on everything else, so in some respects I'm sorry for this rant; and I know it's hard, but for God's sake if Illinois State can do it so can we. It's just going to take a little extra hard work.
???
Chill.
Are you trying to minimize his thoughts?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 15, 2018, 08:01:24 PMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 15, 2018, 07:35:42 PMQuote from: VU2014 on August 15, 2018, 07:16:03 PMQuote from: elephtheria47 on August 15, 2018, 06:50:52 PMWe are in the Missouri Valley now...we shouldnt expect to have to schedule two games on a trip to make it work. Why limit yourself as to when and who and where you can play? Stand alone games should be expected.
Two games on one OOC road trip isn't unreasonable. The less travel the better.
I'll believe At-Large even exists for Valpo when I see the current MVC produce one. I'm still skeptical that the current NCAA committee sees this conference as A10 multi-bid equivalent. We have work ahead of us and Loyola set a stupendous foundation that must continue for MVC legitimacy to arrive. Therefore I say schedule the most home games you can get while still preparing the team for conference. In the end, does having a road P5 in lieu of a home non-D1 add value? If it's (1) non-D1 exhibition + (1) non-D1 OOC then I'm down with that program. Again, who else of national recognition is coming to the ARC guys? Rhode Island was amazing, but how many Rhode Island's are coming to Valpo? They aren't lining up, so let's make sue and give the team a deserved home game that wouldn't be otherwise.
While I agree that we should try to get as many home games as possible and I sympathize with the plight of mid-major scheduling. I know it's hard but I refuse to believe it's impossible. If even Barry Hinson is juicing his schedule with two games against the Buffalo Bulls, there's no reason to believe it is. Win a lot of games against a top 80-100 overall slate and you can beat out the last few mediocre P5 teams for bids.Assuming at-large doesn't exist for the MVC is the surest and only way to ensure beyond a doubt that you're right. For now, I can grudgingly accept one non-D1 game I guess but I respectfully submit: does an easy layup game against a non-D1 really add value even though it was a home game? Fans don't get up for it and I bet honestly neither do the players really. I think they'd honestly get more value out of a buy game because it's at least a chance to make a statement and get a signature win.
Quite frankly I think the question of the value of OOC non-D1s was settled last year. If ever there was a year to schedule non-D1s as valuable tune up games, it was last year with all the freshmen and new faces; yet, we still got hammered by Purdue and Northwestern by 30+ (and Northwestern was decidedly mediocre last year). Granted, we had injuries, lost Tevonn, had the Burton fiasco, etc, and yes, those were among our first experiences on the road, but that just proves my point: those extra home games did not prepare us to play higher level competition. I believe that our soft nonconference slate also contributed in some way to our slow start in MVC play. Either way, it didn't help--not even from a confidence standpoint, as it's clear, many players struggled with their confidence throughout the nonconference schedule\ early MVC play.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 16, 2018, 01:47:41 AMyet, we still got hammered by Purdue and Northwestern by 30+ (and Northwestern was decidedly mediocre last year).
Do you really remember the Northwestern game? Collins knew that slamming Valpo hard at the beginning of the game was the way to beat the Crusaders. The Wildcats hit 7 threes in the first half. It may have been a mediocre Northwestern team over the full spectrum of the season but that was not an average/mediocre team we played that night. Maybe we tend not to give B1G teams enough credit for playing the conference schedule they do play.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 15, 2018, 03:29:45 PM
I didn't mean for those extra scrimmages to come at the expense of any nonconference games (still 9 + an MTE) just starting the exhibitions\scrimmages earlier so that there's more time to play them. I agree that legislating against the P5 is a good way to get them to leave but what can we do? Something has to be done to at least give teams at our level a chance. Maybe the committee stating that they will be emphasizing NCSOS or would this only cause P5 teams to play each other more?
I'm not the most creative person, but really the most sure-fire solution to get the games you want is for Valpo to start winning consistently, making the tournament consistently, and win games in the tournament consistently. Short of that, P5 schools aren't going to give Valpo home games unless it's a one-off type of event, like Purdue a few years back or Vandy coming up here.
Quote from: historyman on August 16, 2018, 07:52:00 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 16, 2018, 01:47:41 AMyet, we still got hammered by Purdue and Northwestern by 30+ (and Northwestern was decidedly mediocre last year).
Do you really remember the Northwestern game? Collins knew that slamming Valpo hard at the beginning of the game was the way to beat the Crusaders. The Wildcats hit 7 threes in the first half. It may have been a mediocre Northwestern team over the full spectrum of the season but that was not an average/mediocre team we played that night. Maybe we tend not to give B1G teams enough credit for playing the conference schedule they do play.
I'm willing to bet that the Northwestern buy game wasn't on the table when we had a Junior or Senior caliber AP and those more experienced teams. Same goes for Purdue. P5s mitigate their risk even if they would still be favored against an experienced VU team.
To compete with B10 caliber teams we need teams with experience to push them. Last years team almost had no shot with a sick Tevonn. NU outclassed us on every level that game. Burton and Golder were the only guys who could create their own shot (Micah had 9pts off the bench in garbage time but he also went 1-5 from the charity strike).
When we have teams with a heavy amount upperclassmen we need to get those NUs & Purdues of the world to schedule us and we need to perform. And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 16, 2018, 11:34:50 AM
And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.
Last 3 years, we're 3-5 in nationally televised OOC games:
2017-18 - 0-2 (L - Purdue, Northwestern)
2016-17 - 1-2 (W - BYU; L - Oregon, Kentucky)
2015-16 - 2-1 (W - Rhode Island, Oregon State; L - Oregon)
Quote from: vusupporter on August 16, 2018, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 16, 2018, 11:34:50 AM
And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.
Last 3 years, we're 3-5 in nationally televised OOC games:
2017-18 - 0-2 (L - Purdue, Northwestern)
2016-17 - 1-2 (W - BYU; L - Oregon, Kentucky)
2015-16 - 2-1 (W - Rhode Island, Oregon State; L - Oregon)
Not as bad as I thought. Maybe last year's rough season is making me think things are worse than they really are. I'd just like us to get some of those Ws against P6 competition when we do get those chances.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 16, 2018, 11:34:50 AM
When we have teams with a heavy amount upperclassmen we need to get those NUs & Purdues of the world to schedule us and we need to perform. And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.
This is probably the biggest challenge that Valpo has currently. Power programs are a lot smarter than they used to be. They know who's coming back, and they generally have a pretty good idea about which mid-major programs are going to be a possible tourney team in a given year. Most power programs will take the risk if they can get a buy game. Butler did this a couple years ago with Vermont and Bucknell, and tried to do it last year with Princeton and Furman. If the mids aren't willing to do a buy game, normally the Power program just moves on to another school who is.
So, these next couple of years when Valpo's going to be good, they may have to accept some buy games, similar to what they did when Peters was a Junior and they played Oregon and Oregon State in the hopes of getting some quality wins (Oregon State didn't wind up being the win they'd hoped for), and when Peters was a Senior and they played Oregon and Kentucky on the road (unfortunately neither of those games were close). I actually think the coaching staff has a sensible approach to the schedule in terms of what they can get right now, Valpo just needs to break through and win one of these games.
Quote from: vusupporter on August 16, 2018, 11:40:38 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 16, 2018, 11:34:50 AM
And for the love of God can we start winning some of the nationally televised OOC games we get. It feels like we have a drought going.
Last 3 years, we're 3-5 in nationally televised OOC games:
2017-18 - 0-2 (L - Purdue, Northwestern)
2016-17 - 1-2 (W - BYU; L - Oregon, Kentucky)
2015-16 - 2-1 (W - Rhode Island, Oregon State; L - Oregon)
St. Mary's, BYU and GW were all National TV games as well. That would make it 4-2 in 2015-16 OOC unless you were only focused on the regular season. ;)
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1030207484915589120
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v0eHX3n28wvoQ/giphy.gif)
That's not be opener? Oh boy... We might get rocked in Myrtle Beach if all we do to prepare for it is play non-D1s... Please stop going so soft in advance of big games, I really think it's a big reason for the blow outs we see more often than not.
What the hell is Winthrop and Pacific travelling to Edwardsville for?
Quote from: jtm on August 16, 2018, 08:03:53 PM
What the hell is Winthrop and Pacific travelling to Edwardsville for?
My guess is the Coaching Staffs have a connection. Those are great home games for a weaker ovc team
Excellent question. Both of those would be winnable and better than non-D1s if they're willing to travel to play Edwardsville surely we could get teams like that here. Of course Winthrop is playing in Carbondale this year so that could be why. That's an easy travel connecting game.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 16, 2018, 08:09:06 PM
Excellent question. Both of those would be winnable and better than non-D1s if they're willing to travel to play Edwardsville surely we could get teams like that here. Of course Winthrop is playing in Carbondale this year so that could be why. That's an easy travel connecting game.
Have you driven on two lane Hwy 13 in southwest Illinois on a weekday afternoon?
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Southern+Illinois+University,+Lincoln+Drive,+Carbondale,+IL/Southern+Illinois+University+Edwardsville,+1+Hairpin+Dr,+Edwardsville,+IL+62025/@38.2548304,-90.2254085,9z/am=t/data=!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x8877123ce908fc03:0x9698c489b70030d3!2m2!1d-89.2249134!2d37.7090577!1m5!1m1!1s0x8875f8759c8a6365:0x7b43439fa62e2836!2m2!1d-89.995654!2d38.793103!3e0!5i1 (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Southern+Illinois+University,+Lincoln+Drive,+Carbondale,+IL/Southern+Illinois+University+Edwardsville,+1+Hairpin+Dr,+Edwardsville,+IL+62025/@38.2548304,-90.2254085,9z/am=t/data=!4m15!4m14!1m5!1m1!1s0x8877123ce908fc03:0x9698c489b70030d3!2m2!1d-89.2249134!2d37.7090577!1m5!1m1!1s0x8875f8759c8a6365:0x7b43439fa62e2836!2m2!1d-89.995654!2d38.793103!3e0!5i1)
Maybe they will be announcing the series will start next season? I'm thinking it will be the Non-Conference schedule.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1032280205589667840
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1032280660449390593
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1032277759102517248
Looking at the OOC schedule, my word for the home games: uninspiring!
Quote from: valpopal on August 22, 2018, 10:29:30 AM
Looking at the OOC schedule, my word for the home games: uninspiring!
I'd describe the home non-conference schedule as: Unacceptable...
It NEEDS to be better than this. Very disappointing. The only interesting home games are Ball State and maybe High Point.
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball/status/1032287922668675072
As for the Away Schedule it's satisfying and strong in my book. Lot's of interesting away and neutral site games. Interesting to see that TBD away game on November 18.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2018, 10:56:27 AM
Quote from: valpopal on August 22, 2018, 10:29:30 AM
Looking at the OOC schedule, my word for the home games: uninspiring!
I'd describe the home non-conference schedule as: Unacceptable...
It NEEDS to be better than this. Very disappointing. The only interesting home games are Ball State and maybe High Point.
...and the Ball State game will be after students are gone, back home following final exams!
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2018, 10:56:27 AMInteresting to see that TBD away game on November 18.
Any idea who that might be?
Yeah the home schedule stinks. Adding High Point and Purdue NW is brutal. High Point seems to be a new Low Point for us.
But did we know about Texas A&M road game?
The road and neutral schedule is indeed impressive!!! We get a chance to prove some things. Looking at the glass half full, the home games give us a chance to re-group between the rugged road games.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2018, 10:56:27 AM
I'd describe the home non-conference schedule as: Unacceptable...
It NEEDS to be better than this. Very disappointing. The only interesting home games are Ball State and maybe High Point.
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball/status/1032287922668675072
As for the Away Schedule it's satisfying and strong in my book. Lot's of interesting away and neutral site games. Interesting to see that TBD away game on November 18.
That's just the 3rd game of their exempt tourney. Easier to do that than list out the 4 teams on the other side of the bracket.
None of their home games, outside of Ball State are even remotely good, and even that one is likely to get an average division 1 team at the ARC. In terms of kenpom ratings last season - here are the home opponents:
Concordia - N/A
SIUE - 318
UC Riverside - 268
High Point - 241
Ball State - 173
Purdue Northwest - N/A
The good news is that the neutral/road schedule should balance this out. The problem is that these games are going to be extremely difficult to win, especially the Texas A&M game, which Valpo's going to have to play 2 games in 48 hours, and have to fly from Indiana to Texas.
Western Kentucky - 47
West Virginia - 12
UNLV - 107
GW - 192
Texas A&M - 29
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 22, 2018, 11:24:41 AMQuote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2018, 10:56:27 AMInteresting to see that TBD away game on November 18.
Any idea who that might be?
It is our final bracket game of the Myrtle Beach Invitational. It is determined by who wins or loses of the four teams on the other side of the bracket.
- 3 of 7 (43%) are against non D-1 opponents
- 2 of 4 D-1 games (50%) the students are gone
- 3 of 4 D-1 opponents had RPI rankings last year of 274, 288 and 300
- 1 of 4 D-1 opponents is an extension school of a sister MVC program
From a positive standpoint, the university has finally found a way to resolve the ARC parking problem.
While the neutral site games at Myrtle Beach are helpful and Texas A&M and West Virginia are interesting road games, this is an AWFUL home schedule. Absolutely awful! Last year they had a very poor home non-conference schedule - but this is even worse. The number one thing that you can do to build enthusiasm around the team is to have quality home opponents. I am not talking Power 5 plus the Big East, but you need upper half teams in good mid-majors and NO non-Division 1 teams. The only decent opponent is Ball State and that is when school is not in session. People complain about marketing and enthusiasm, but you can't market cr%$ and there will be absolutely no enthusiasm for SIUE, High Point, UC-Riverside and (abysmally) TWO non-D1 opponents. The basketball program gets an F that is not even close to a D for scheduling.
Quote from: crusadermoe on August 22, 2018, 11:27:52 AM
Yeah the home schedule stinks. Adding High Point and Purdue NW is brutal. High Point seems to be a new Low Point for us.
But did we know about Texas A&M road game?
The road and neutral schedule is indeed impressive!!! We get a chance to prove some things. Looking at the glass half full, the home games give us a chance to re-group between the rugged road games.
I wish the home schedule was better, but as the coaches and AD have pointed out, few teams are willing to play a team like Valpo in a tough environment like the ARC. Before complaining, we need to understand that scheduling is difficult.
The people in the basketball program do a lot of good things and they deserve credit for that. And yes, scheduling is difficult - but that is their job. Lots of job are difficult, but that is not justification for doing a terrible job. Unless the team pulls off highly unlikely upsets against West Virginia or Texas A&M, there will be absolutely no enthusiasm going into the MVC schedule. None!! GW is a nice road game and I think it is part of a home and home...but Valpo has the road game first, which always leads to the possibility of the return game getting delayed or bought out. Why isn't the home part of that deal first?
Here are my suggested ticket prices for this non-conerence home schedule, based on the value:
Concordia-Chicago: Valpo pays all attendees $5 to attend
SIUE: Free
UC-Riverside: Free
High Point: Free
Ball State: Normal ticket prices
Purdue Northwest: Valpo pays all attendees $5 to attend
This will be the only way to get more than 2000 people in the ARC for any of these games.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 22, 2018, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on August 22, 2018, 11:27:52 AM
Yeah the home schedule stinks. Adding High Point and Purdue NW is brutal. High Point seems to be a new Low Point for us.
But did we know about Texas A&M road game?
The road and neutral schedule is indeed impressive!!! We get a chance to prove some things. Looking at the glass half full, the home games give us a chance to re-group between the rugged road games.
I wish the home schedule was better, but as the coaches and AD have pointed out, few teams are willing to play a team like Valpo in a tough environment like the ARC. Before complaining, we need to understand that scheduling is difficult.
I know the challenges of scheduling but that home schedule is pretty darn bad...
This schedule feels like it is being made to put us in the best situation possible for 2019-20 season when we have our best chance to earn a at-large bid. High Point just hired Tubby Smith who is a pretty good coach. HP might not be great this season, but maybe he could get them to Quadrant 2 (76-135) away game status the following season (pretty unlikely but a guy can dream). HP will likely be a Q3 (136-240) opponent next season.
I'd rather see Valpo play on the road two more times than play Concordia and Purdue Northwest during the regular season.
It seems like Valpo and other similar situated mid-majors should try and schedule games with each other, rather than filling the schedule up with garbage. Or has that been tried before?
Very disappointing. It will be interesting to see how they price season tickets. I'm on the fence if I will continue to buy them or just buy tickets for the valley games. I do not want to pay for games I will not go to.
Chicago state and ipfw looks pretty good right now......
When will the hatchet be buried between us and the HL so that we can schedule series with them? That will really help us. We need to get in touch with more HL and MAC schools for scheduling. Minimal travel likely to give us home games (maybe even one-off games with no return) and so much better than series with the likes of Edwardsville and High Point. That said I might actually go to the High Point game because Tubby Smith is their coach but even that may not be enough of a draw for me Hopefully with RPI going out the window we will finally see a reduction in non D1s because the main excuse for playing them is gone. We can't afford to keep trotting out these awful home slates. We need to do whatever we have to do in order to get decent mids here. I am pleased with the road/neutral games. Those are very tough but it's really hard to look past those home offerings. On the whole we are trending up schedule wise and that's good but more needs to be done about getting better home games. The fans deserve it.
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 22, 2018, 12:17:05 PM
The people in the basketball program do a lot of good things and they deserve credit for that. And yes, scheduling is difficult - but that is their job. Lots of job are difficult, but that is not justification for doing a terrible job. Unless the team pulls off highly unlikely upsets against West Virginia or Texas A&M, there will be absolutely no enthusiasm going into the MVC schedule. None!! GW is a nice road game and I think it is part of a home and home...but Valpo has the road game first, which always leads to the possibility of the return game getting delayed or bought out. Why isn't the home part of that deal first?
Here are my suggested ticket prices for this non-conerence home schedule, based on the value:
Concordia-Chicago: Valpo pays all attendees $5 to attend
SIUE: Free
UC-Riverside: Free
High Point: Free
Ball State: Normal ticket prices
Purdue Northwest: Valpo pays all attendees $5 to attend
This will be the only way to get more than 2000 people in the ARC for any of these games.
I think scheduling Concordia-Chicago (River Forest) is part of a plan to reestablish the Crusader Classic! ;)Last played in 1977!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 22, 2018, 12:38:13 PM
When will the hatchet be buried between us and the HL so that we can schedule series with them? That will really help us. We need to get in touch with more HL and MAC schools for scheduling. Minimal travel likely to give us home games (maybe even one-off games with no return) and so much better than series with the likes of Edwardsville and High Point. That said I might actually go to the High Point game because Tubby Smith is their coach but even that may not be enough of a draw for me Hopefully with RPI going out the window we will finally see a reduction in non D1s because the main excuse for playing them is gone. We can't afford to keep trotting out these awful home slates. We need to do whatever we have to do in order to get decent mids here. I am pleased with the road/neutral games. Those are very tough but it's really hard to look past those home offerings. On the whole we are trending up schedule wise and that's good but more needs to be done about getting better home games. The fans deserve it.
Interesting thoughts... Not having any of our old HL rivalries on the non-con schedule hurts attendance and the bottom line. Of course, probably not as much of the bottom line as paying the HL millions and millions of dollars.
Simply unacceptable.
I'd like to see us start getting quality mid-majors into the ARC. I understand there are challenges with scheduling P6 and AAC teams, but let's start getting good teams to come play us. If that means giving them the first home game so be it. We should be aiming to schedule at least one or two Mid series of the caliber of a: Dayton, Rhode Island, VCU, Richmond, St. Mary's, FGCU, Belmont, Murray State, Vermont, UT Arlingtion, etc.
It's ok to have one or tops two of the SIUE/UCR caliber opponents, because you need fill the schedule but when you have as many non-d1s and just bad d1 teams at home as we do it just becomes unacceptable.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on August 22, 2018, 01:30:20 PM
Not having any of our old HL rivalries on the non-con schedule hurts attendance and the bottom line. Of course, probably not as much of the bottom line as paying the HL millions and millions of dollars.
I'm not sure if the lawsuit is impacting scheduling HL teams or not. Our other sports play them post lawsuit frequently.
TBH other than OU, NKU and maybe Wright State/UIC I don't think any of them are particularly helpful or interesting opponents to schedule. I'd be good with a "break" from playing them for a while.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on August 22, 2018, 01:30:20 PM
Interesting thoughts... Not having any of our old HL rivalries on the non-con schedule hurts attendance and the bottom line. Of course, probably not as much of the bottom line as paying the HL millions and millions of dollars.
Isn't it just $500k that the suit is all about? As bad as the attendance could be, I think it'll still take years to lose that kind of money in ticket and concession sales. I don't think it's as big of a factor in scheduling as 1314 does. There are still MAC schools, Summit League schools, OVC programs that can be called upon for scheduling games as well. I do understand with their neutral/road schedule that they also need to make sure they don't destroy a team's confidence ahead of the conference season, but dang, this doesn't give many fans a reason to come to the ARC.
Last year we had two MVC games before January 1, Indiana State (December 28th) and MoState (December 31st). The scheduling of this year's Purdue NW game tells me that probably won't happen again. Too bad. We are planning on visiting dear old NWI for the Christmas/New Year holiday this year and were hoping to catch a decent Valpo game while there. Looks like it's "Hello Tiebels!" instead of VU basketball, unless there is some sandwiched-in MVC home game in there between the 19th and 31st.
A pretty good job on the away/neutral schedule though, so not all is lost.
Last year, our out of conference home schedule was poor and the average attendance for those games was a disappointing 2617, despite a team that went undefeated through the period, not suffering their first loss until they visited Purdue on 12/7. Anyone want to bet on over/under for this year's out of conference home game attendance? I will be surprised if it isn't "under"!
Quote from: valpopal on August 22, 2018, 03:01:41 PM
Last year, our out of conference home schedule was poor and the average attendance for those games was a disappointing 2617, despite a team that went undefeated through the period, not suffering their first loss until they visited Purdue on 12/7. Anyone want to bet on over/under for this year's out of conference home game attendance? I will be surprised if it isn't "under"!
Non-Conference Home Attendance Over/Under 2250
UNDER
Quote from: mj on August 22, 2018, 12:23:24 PM
I'd rather see Valpo play on the road two more times than play Concordia and Purdue Northwest during the regular season.
It seems like Valpo and other similar situated mid-majors should try and schedule games with each other, rather than filling the schedule up with garbage. Or has that been tried before?
To some degree, this has been tried (e.g., the MWC-MVC challenge). I agree that much more of it is a good idea.
I will make another suggestion that might be contrary to others' views. If Valparaiso is completely incapable of putting together a home schedule that is even marginally acceptable (as has happened the last two years), then Valparaiso needs to try to build a strong consensus to expand the MVC immediately. Get the best two schools that you can out of Murray State, Belmont, South Dakota State, Milwaukee, etc. If the conference played a complete round robin, this would add two acceptable or better opponents that would hopefully replace two completely unacceptable opponents. Play the additional conference games in the first two weeks of December when students are in session.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 22, 2018, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: valpopal on August 22, 2018, 03:01:41 PM
Last year, our out of conference home schedule was poor and the average attendance for those games was a disappointing 2617, despite a team that went undefeated through the period, not suffering their first loss until they visited Purdue on 12/7. Anyone want to bet on over/under for this year's out of conference home game attendance? I will be surprised if it isn't "under"!
Non-Conference Home Attendance Over/Under 2250
UNDER
Under. In fact, under 2000
What is a real shame is that Valparaiso will have a team that can generate excitement with the student body and in the community. Fazekas is eligible and Freeman-Liberty, by many accounts, is an exciting player with a lot of potential. Add to that some promising players who seemed to figure things out during the latter part of last season and you have got something to sell and promote. But the home schedule basically says, "don't bother until the MVC season in January". i don't live in Valparaiso, but despite being a big fan I would likely just buy tickets for the MVC games if I lived in Valparaiso. The casual fan, whom you need to get attendance where you want it, will very likely not buy tickets before the MVC season and may never become interested (let alone excited).
I think everyone is over exaggerating a little. Everyone here seems to be taking a "fan" perspective (which I understand), but from a team/University perspective this is a pretty solid schedule. Obviously, not having great home game is disappointing for fans. But, the strength of schedule overall is pretty solid, teams like George Washington and Ball State besides West Virginia and Texas A&M are nice contributions. Sure, a couple of cupcakes but this is more a matter of circumstance than wish. Furthermore, with such a young roster overall, playing a large amount of away games in hostile environments or neutral courts will certainly benefit the team during the conference schedule. Similarly, the ultimate aim is postseason. Any postseason requires success on neutral and away games. So, this experience really could be crucial moving forward.
Again, absolutely, yes, I agree, the lack of home games is disappointing for us fans. But let's take a minute and think about the overall plus/minuses of the schedule before we go throwing around terms like "simply unacceptable." There are definitely quite a few benefits with the schedule to the health of the team, even if it means the fans sacrifice.
The administration has been clear on what it thinks of the scheduling of recent years.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmuABI0HDpE/
From the basketball program's announcement on the schedule:
The Missouri Valley Conference will be announced by the conference office next month. Including the conference schedule, Valpo will play at least nine games this season against top-100 RPI teams from last year, including three at home, and 18 against top-150 RPI teams, including seven at home, versus just two years ago, when Valpo played just four top-100 opponents from the previous year and only 11 games against top-150 opponents, including just three at home.
Comment: All three top-100 RPI teams at home are from the MVC and all seven top-150 RPI teams at home are from the MVC. These were a given! Frankly, the comparison to two years ago is nauseating spin. You get credit for moving to the MVC, but you cannot use it as justification for an awful non-conference home schedule. The activities related to non-conference scheduling are unrelated.
Quote from: mp91 on August 22, 2018, 03:30:03 PM
I think everyone is over exaggerating a little. Everyone here seems to be taking a "fan" perspective (which I understand), but from a team/University perspective this is a pretty solid schedule. Obviously, not having great home game is disappointing for fans. But, the strength of schedule overall is pretty solid, teams like George Washington and Ball State besides West Virginia and Texas A&M are nice contributions. Sure, a couple of cupcakes but this is more a matter of circumstance than wish. Furthermore, with such a young roster overall, playing a large amount of away games in hostile environments or neutral courts will certainly benefit the team during the conference schedule. Similarly, the ultimate aim is postseason. Any postseason requires success on neutral and away games. So, this experience really could be crucial moving forward.
Again, absolutely, yes, I agree, the lack of home games is disappointing for us fans. But let's take a minute and think about the overall plus/minuses of the schedule before we go throwing around terms like "simply unacceptable." There are definitely quite a few benefits with the schedule to the health of the team, even if it means the fans sacrifice.
Why should anyone go see this team play three teams in the bottom 20% of college basketball and two teams not even in Division 1? How does this home non-conference schedule increase (or even sustain) fan interest? And remember, this is now two years in a row with an awful non-conference home schedule (and this one is worse than last year).
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 22, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: mp91 on August 22, 2018, 03:30:03 PM
I think everyone is over exaggerating a little. Everyone here seems to be taking a "fan" perspective (which I understand), but from a team/University perspective this is a pretty solid schedule. Obviously, not having great home game is disappointing for fans. But, the strength of schedule overall is pretty solid, teams like George Washington and Ball State besides West Virginia and Texas A&M are nice contributions. Sure, a couple of cupcakes but this is more a matter of circumstance than wish. Furthermore, with such a young roster overall, playing a large amount of away games in hostile environments or neutral courts will certainly benefit the team during the conference schedule. Similarly, the ultimate aim is postseason. Any postseason requires success on neutral and away games. So, this experience really could be crucial moving forward.
Again, absolutely, yes, I agree, the lack of home games is disappointing for us fans. But let's take a minute and think about the overall plus/minuses of the schedule before we go throwing around terms like "simply unacceptable." There are definitely quite a few benefits with the schedule to the health of the team, even if it means the fans sacrifice.
Why should anyone go see this team play three teams in the bottom 20% of college basketball and two teams not even in Division 1? How does this home non-conference schedule increase (or even sustain) fan interest? And remember, this is now two years in a row with an awful non-conference home schedule (and this one is worse than last year).
You're completely correct. From a fan perspective and student interest perspective, the schedule is very disappointing. I am just saying from my basketball perspective, it's not so bad. Just from a basketball perspective. Yes, bigger opponents will provide bigger crowds. But, from someone who worked with the athletic department and marketing department, I can tell you that this is much easier said than done. Similarly, from a student crowd angle, there are much larger pandemic problems than scheduling great opponents. so, yes, your point is completely accurate. It's just one of many problems. But from a basketball perspective, the schedule is not that bad. Plus, say they beat West Virginia, the crowds will be there during the conference schedule.
If we have to schedule a couple of non-DIs, why not go for a school that at least has a historical connection to VU, one that we have played over the years? DePauw or Wabash come to mind. Wheaton. Luther. Hope. Washington of St. Louis. Wittenberg. Denison. If I lived close to VU, I'd at least be *tempted* to go to one of those games.
Paul
On a positive note we were able to get a pretty decent away game schedule this year to set up for next year (fingers crossed). Next year we're supposed to get Vandy at the ARC (it'll really be big for Valpo) George Washington as a return H-H and I believe if there still is the MWC-MVC challenge it would be a home game for us. So if we concentrated on just getting one more Quality opponent that would be a good home schedule. Sometimes you have to really get way down to get back up. I just don't want to stay down tho. Here's hoping we're just setting up for next year.
There was an academic study done a number of years ago that considered a university similar to Valparaiso and examined what factors drive attendance by students and non-students at college basketball games. There were two overwhelming factors that influence attendance: 1. Perceived quality of the team, 2. Perceived quality of the opponents. Everything else (concessions, giveaways, music in the stadium, etc.) had little or no impact. So your argument of there being much larger pandemic problems than scheduling great (or even decent) opponents is very difficult to accept.
And you mentioned West Virginia. I hate West Virginia and would love to see Valpo beat them. That said, I have seen West Virginia a lot and they will mercilessly beat up an opponent that does not have two physical experienced guards on the floor that can handle the ball. I don't know who those guards are on this Valpo team. I see upsetting West Virginia as being extremely unlikely and it is possible that Valpo gets embarrassed.
Quote from: 78crusader on August 22, 2018, 04:13:01 PM
If we have to schedule a couple of non-DIs, why not go for a school that at least has a historical connection to VU, one that we have played over the years? DePauw or Wabash come to mind. Wheaton. Luther. Hope. Washington of St. Louis. Wittenberg. Denison. If I lived close to VU, I'd at least be *tempted* to go to one of those games.
Paul
Valparaiso's objective is to be a consistent Top 100 Division 1 program that, in some seasons, reaches a much higher level of performance. Given that objective, it should NEVER play a non-Division 1 team (let alone two).
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 22, 2018, 11:56:52 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on August 22, 2018, 11:27:52 AM
Yeah the home schedule stinks. Adding High Point and Purdue NW is brutal. High Point seems to be a new Low Point for us.
But did we know about Texas A&M road game?
The road and neutral schedule is indeed impressive!!! We get a chance to prove some things. Looking at the glass half full, the home games give us a chance to re-group between the rugged road games.
I wish the home schedule was better, but as the coaches and AD have pointed out, few teams are willing to play a team like Valpo in a tough environment like the ARC. Before complaining, we need to understand that scheduling is difficult.
I'll agree here, we are in RPI purgatory until we establish our place in the MVC and routinely get Sub 80 RPI type rankings (don't care what the new metric is, insert here _______). ARC home record is excellent BUT we are over 100 RPI and that does NOT attract home-n-homes.
As a person with a 2-hour drive, I will still mostly attend in conference games. Especially because we almost never get weekend games of substance in OOC in the years I have followed.
P.S. I will be paying for the ESPN+ coverage, I think someone was taking a written poll on that and I am going to subscribe. I assume I can purchase for the months I want it on a monthly basis or whatever it takes. I am in.
Quote from: mp91 on August 22, 2018, 04:01:39 PMI am just saying from my basketball perspective
I think you are trying to think big picture but missing the boat greatly. A crappy home schedule is more than a "fan perspective", it's incoming recruits, $$$ to programs, community acceptance and following, student environment and experience, current players (the players don't want to play PNW), and I can go on and on.
I have a hard time buying it's a difficult process. There are many successful mid majors who have quality at home schedules. You don't have to bring Duke in but we should be able to bring in decent mid-majors. I question if we have the right people with the right relationships making the schedules.
VU 84,you are spot on. In the very least try and get a decent Lower major team to come in. Playing Concordia and Purdue NW isn't helping the cause. And Chairback hit it. Recruits know what they're getting into playing in the MVC but if you can supplement that with a good OOC schedule and they can get exposure more the better in landing them. The admin needs to address this. I'll definitely drive the 60miles for Ball State. Maybe UC Riverside and SIUE. But High Point and the non D1 schools why bother.
That being said, upside is the road /neutral portion. Quality abounds there. Hopefully we've negotiated at least a return game with one or more of A&M, WVU or GW. That NIT run doesn't help that teams don't want to play here either and that's still fresh. They saw what happened to FSU and St. Mary's. I know Marcus Liberty is a fan of the overall OOC schedule based on his tweet. My biggest rub is we play that gauntlet and we end with a home game against Purdue NW. Valpo needed a better tune up game leading into MVC play.
Quote from: VUBBFan on August 22, 2018, 04:14:03 PM
On a positive note we were able to get a pretty decent away game schedule this year to set up for next year (fingers crossed). Next year we're supposed to get Vandy at the ARC (it'll really be big for Valpo) George Washington as a return H-H and I believe if there still is the MWC-MVC challenge it would be a home game for us. So if we concentrated on just getting one more Quality opponent that would be a good home schedule. Sometimes you have to really get way down to get back up. I just don't want to stay down tho. Here's hoping we're just setting up for next year.
The problem with that is the expected hiatus of the MVC-MWC Challenge next year. In all likelihood we're not getting that home game. Here's a way to make up for it though: Try to get in on Loyola's H and H with St Joseph's. They'll be coming to Chicago and it's a nice connecting game for them on the way back home. If MLB is smart (and he is) He'll use his time in Myrtle Beach to talk to schools like WKU UCF CS-Fullerton St Joe's and Monmouth about starting series. You know all the ADs will be there so it's a huge opportunity to get some things done. (I'm assuming WVU and WF would be a no-go but maybe set up a trip to Wake Forest to couple with the High Point game (assuming there is a return game). Give them to first game if you must but use these tournaments to get stuff going to move to program forward. Maybe this High Point game\series will pay off if Tubby Smith lands a better job in the future.
Quote from: ValpoDad89 on August 22, 2018, 06:14:45 PM
VU 84,you are spot on. In the very least try and get a decent Lower major team to come in. Playing Concordia and Purdue NW isn't helping the cause. And Chairback hit it. Recruits know what they're getting into playing in the MVC but if you can supplement that with a good OOC schedule and they can get exposure more the better in landing them. The admin needs to address this. I'll definitely drive the 60miles for Ball State. Maybe UC Riverside and SIUE. But High Point and the non D1 schools why bother.
That being said, upside is the road /neutral portion. Quality abounds there. Hopefully we've negotiated at least a return game with one or more of A&M, WVU or GW. That NIT run doesn't help that teams don't want to play here either and that's still fresh. They saw what happened to FSU and St. Mary's. I know Marcus Liberty is a fan of the overall OOC schedule based on his tweet. My biggest rub is we play that gauntlet and we end with a home game against Purdue NW. Valpo needed a better tune up game leading into MVC play.
I know for a fact there is a return from GW, WVU is possible because Huggins is one of a few P5 coaches who gives mids a chance but I'll assume there's no return. The A&M game I'm sure was negotiated awhile ago as a one-off for Burton.
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 22, 2018, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: 78crusader on August 22, 2018, 04:13:01 PM
If we have to schedule a couple of non-DIs, why not go for a school that at least has a historical connection to VU, one that we have played over the years? DePauw or Wabash come to mind. Wheaton. Luther. Hope. Washington of St. Louis. Wittenberg. Denison. If I lived close to VU, I'd at least be *tempted* to go to one of those games.
Paul
Valparaiso's objective is to be a consistent Top 100 Division 1 program that, in some seasons, reaches a much higher level of performance. Given that objective, it should NEVER play a non-Division 1 team (let alone two).
Season ticket holders pay for every home game, including the exhibition game. So, in terms of entertainment value I see 7 games (not 6), of which 3 (not 2) are against non-D-1 opponents. Similarly, there are 4 opportunities for students to attend a home game in the 1st semester, of which 2 are against non D-1's. Moreover, 1 of the many complaints about last year's schedule was that there were no December home games when school was in session and the students who had been attending lost all their momentum. So, what was done to improve the situation? The students will be able to attend a game 4 days into Dec. :banghead:
Points well taken 13-14 and wh. I was thinking we at least had a return game against GW since we received the same against URI. Obviously WVU and A&M are P5 schools. Hopefully Huggy sees he's playing us at home and again at a neutral site will give some incentive to come here but if Valpo beats them in one or dare I say both, he may not be so inclined.
And again, 13-14, these tourneys give ADs the ability to talk and hopefully come to an agreement on offering the fan base and students some incentive to come to games in November /December. Plus it will only help us competitively. What does beating Concordia and PNW do by beating them by 20+? Other than you can work the lower half of the bench in and work on some things, nothing more than glorified exhibitions.
Cant imagine the MVC is happy to add valpo who rolls out a schedule where they won't even average 2000k a game. Wondering how the fans, or the team, is supposed to get excited about the home schedule.
Hey kid, come to valpo, we're undefeated out of conference at home!
Some positive data about the schedule. The away and home OOC are polar opposites in terms of quality.
https://twitter.com/Fieldof68Freak/status/1032299766099652608
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 22, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: mp91 on August 22, 2018, 03:30:03 PM
I think everyone is over exaggerating a little. Everyone here seems to be taking a "fan" perspective (which I understand), but from a team/University perspective this is a pretty solid schedule. Obviously, not having great home game is disappointing for fans. But, the strength of schedule overall is pretty solid, teams like George Washington and Ball State besides West Virginia and Texas A&M are nice contributions. Sure, a couple of cupcakes but this is more a matter of circumstance than wish. Furthermore, with such a young roster overall, playing a large amount of away games in hostile environments or neutral courts will certainly benefit the team during the conference schedule. Similarly, the ultimate aim is postseason. Any postseason requires success on neutral and away games. So, this experience really could be crucial moving forward.
Again, absolutely, yes, I agree, the lack of home games is disappointing for us fans. But let's take a minute and think about the overall plus/minuses of the schedule before we go throwing around terms like "simply unacceptable." There are definitely quite a few benefits with the schedule to the health of the team, even if it means the fans sacrifice.
Why should anyone go see this team play three teams in the bottom 20% of college basketball and two teams not even in Division 1? How does this home non-conference schedule increase (or even sustain) fan interest? And remember, this is now two years in a row with an awful non-conference home schedule (and this one is worse than last year).
The home schedule isn't great, but there are a lot of opportunities away from home for good/great wins. My hope is if this team gets some good wins away from home that Valpo fans will come out to support their team no matter what the quality of the opponent might be. You either support your team or you don't.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 22, 2018, 08:59:40 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 22, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: mp91 on August 22, 2018, 03:30:03 PM
I think everyone is over exaggerating a little. Everyone here seems to be taking a "fan" perspective (which I understand), but from a team/University perspective this is a pretty solid schedule. Obviously, not having great home game is disappointing for fans. But, the strength of schedule overall is pretty solid, teams like George Washington and Ball State besides West Virginia and Texas A&M are nice contributions. Sure, a couple of cupcakes but this is more a matter of circumstance than wish. Furthermore, with such a young roster overall, playing a large amount of away games in hostile environments or neutral courts will certainly benefit the team during the conference schedule. Similarly, the ultimate aim is postseason. Any postseason requires success on neutral and away games. So, this experience really could be crucial moving forward.
Again, absolutely, yes, I agree, the lack of home games is disappointing for us fans. But let's take a minute and think about the overall plus/minuses of the schedule before we go throwing around terms like "simply unacceptable." There are definitely quite a few benefits with the schedule to the health of the team, even if it means the fans sacrifice.
Why should anyone go see this team play three teams in the bottom 20% of college basketball and two teams not even in Division 1? How does this home non-conference schedule increase (or even sustain) fan interest? And remember, this is now two years in a row with an awful non-conference home schedule (and this one is worse than last year).
The home schedule isn't great, but there are a lot of opportunities away from home for good/great wins. My hope is if this team gets some good wins away from home that Valpo fans will come out to support their team no matter what the quality of the opponent might be. You either support your team or you don't.
Eddie makes some good points. Even a vaulted program like Butler has Tiffin (?), Southern Indiana (?) Presbyterian, UC-Irvine and Brown on their home schedule.
I've had more time to think and have reached a new conclusion: Yes, this year's home games are bad, but think strategically here: If you buy season tickets now, you get right of first refusal on Vanderbilt tickets next year. Endure some bad games\ sunk costs now to beat the heavy walkup market and ensure your seat for the Vanderbilt game. May not be such a terrible tradeoff.
This is a solid schedule, just stinks all the bad games are at home. We will all appreciate next years Home slate even more now.
Quote from: vu72 on August 22, 2018, 09:20:47 PMQuote from: EddieCabot on August 22, 2018, 08:59:40 PMQuote from: vu84v2 on August 22, 2018, 03:45:40 PMQuote from: mp91 on August 22, 2018, 03:30:03 PMI think everyone is over exaggerating a little. Everyone here seems to be taking a "fan" perspective (which I understand), but from a team/University perspective this is a pretty solid schedule. Obviously, not having great home game is disappointing for fans. But, the strength of schedule overall is pretty solid, teams like George Washington and Ball State besides West Virginia and Texas A&M are nice contributions. Sure, a couple of cupcakes but this is more a matter of circumstance than wish. Furthermore, with such a young roster overall, playing a large amount of away games in hostile environments or neutral courts will certainly benefit the team during the conference schedule. Similarly, the ultimate aim is postseason. Any postseason requires success on neutral and away games. So, this experience really could be crucial moving forward. Again, absolutely, yes, I agree, the lack of home games is disappointing for us fans. But let's take a minute and think about the overall plus/minuses of the schedule before we go throwing around terms like "simply unacceptable." There are definitely quite a few benefits with the schedule to the health of the team, even if it means the fans sacrifice.
Why should anyone go see this team play three teams in the bottom 20% of college basketball and two teams not even in Division 1? How does this home non-conference schedule increase (or even sustain) fan interest? And remember, this is now two years in a row with an awful non-conference home schedule (and this one is worse than last year).
The home schedule isn't great, but there are a lot of opportunities away from home for good/great wins. My hope is if this team gets some good wins away from home that Valpo fans will come out to support their team no matter what the quality of the opponent might be. You either support your team or you don't.
Eddie makes some good points. Even a vaulted program like Butler has Tiffin (?), Southern Indiana (?) Presbyterian, UC-Irvine and Brown on their home schedule.
To be fair, they are in a much better position to absorb that than we are. The committee won't care as long as they beat Villanova Xavier Marquette Seton Hall and Creighton.
There has been some emotional responses to the OOC schedule just released -- most of it directed at the home games. Granted, the plus side is weighted toward the away and neutral games but the home side is taking a licking.
I'd like to offer a more long-term perspective to what is happening and I think the athletic department and MBB is doing the same.
We were setting last year's schedule coming out of the HL and adjusting to our new MVC membership. This year we labored under a losing record, yet, here is the analysis from the Valpo schedule release
"Valpo will play at least nine games this season against top-100 RPI teams from last year, including three at home, and 18 against top-150 RPI teams, including seven at home, versus just two years ago, when Valpo played just four top-100 opponents from the previous year and only 11 games against top-150 opponents, including just three at home.
Is this a sprint or a distance race? This is our first full scheduling year as a real MVC member (we just joined the MVC last year in July) and there is a marked improvement (overall). If we win some big OOC games this season and finish in the top half of the MVC, we will have gained the cred to further improve our schedule. We have to earn our opponents' respect and that will help to improve our home schedule -- but it will take time. If this season is as good as we hope, next year's OOC and home schedule will be the real litmus test. If it is still poor next year, then I'll jump on the band wagon with the criics. Please remember that Loyola took 5 years to get where they are now.
Nobody should be complaining about the schedule as a whole. In fact, on balance it may be one of the finest they've ever crafted especially when quality of conference is factored in. The problem is that there appears to be so little to get excited about for local fans prior to MVC play. I actually like that they have plenty of time to prepare for every major opponent except Texas A&M. Next year should be better. Just please, no more non-D1s and give us better tune-up games.
I don't disagree that there are quality road and neutral court opponents on the schedule, but shouldn't there be? Agreeing to play someone at their place or finding a spot in 1 of myriad early season tournaments is the easy stuff. Where good schedulers earn their money is in putting together respectable home schedules, and Luke Gore, et al., failed once again. There are some good home schedules this year in the MVC. Inexcusably, Valpo's is nowhere among them.
Some teams I think could be on the schedule either as buy games or series starters next year (when Smits Evelyn and Golder are seniors)
For Evelyn: Michigan Michigan State Eastern Michigan Oakland UDM
For Smits: IUPUI Butler
For Golder: Oregon Oregon State Portland Portland State
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 23, 2018, 12:06:41 AM
Some teams I think could be on the schedule either as buy games or series starters next year (when Smits and Evelyn are seniors)
For Evelyn: Michigan Michigan State Eastern Michigan Oakland UDM
For Smits: IUPUI Butler
I don't think we should be giving anyone a "hometown" game next season unless it makes sense for that particular seasons goals or helps provide a future benefit. Until IUPUI or UDM proves they aren't bottom dweller in a now terrible conference, we shouldn't consider them.
Quote from: wh on August 22, 2018, 11:51:33 PM
I don't disagree that there are quality road and neutral court opponents on the schedule, but shouldn't there be? Agreeing to play someone at their place or finding a spot in 1 of myriad early season tournaments is the easy stuff. Where good schedulers earn their money is in putting together respectable home schedules, and Luke Gore, et al., failed once again. There are some good home schedules this year in the MVC. Inexcusably, Valpo's is nowhere among them.
Getting into these good Neutral Site tournaments are not as easy as you'd think. It's amazing that we were able to get in this tournament to begin with considering we were suppose to be playing in the Great Alaskan Shootout that got canceled on us last minute and we had to go scrambling. We landed in a better situation.
It's pretty clear that we sacrificed this seasons home OOC for next years schedule. It's understandable and smart but it's just disappointing that this seasons Home OOC is so bad. It's all about next season and putting ourselves in the position possible.
As others have said when you take a macro view of the strength of schedule it's quite good. The away schedule is tough and not any cupcakes on the road. We need tune-up games where the guys won't be taking haymakers out of the gates. We have some games that should be wins that will allow the young guys and Fazekas to find their groove, before we ramp it up against real competition. There is also a nice test against Ball State sprinkled in the middle. (how the hell can we not manage to start scheduling this BSU vs VU games when students are on campus. FIGURE IT OUT).
Quote from: vu72 on August 22, 2018, 09:20:47 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 22, 2018, 08:59:40 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 22, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: mp91 on August 22, 2018, 03:30:03 PM
I think everyone is over exaggerating a little. Everyone here seems to be taking a "fan" perspective (which I understand), but from a team/University perspective this is a pretty solid schedule. Obviously, not having great home game is disappointing for fans. But, the strength of schedule overall is pretty solid, teams like George Washington and Ball State besides West Virginia and Texas A&M are nice contributions. Sure, a couple of cupcakes but this is more a matter of circumstance than wish. Furthermore, with such a young roster overall, playing a large amount of away games in hostile environments or neutral courts will certainly benefit the team during the conference schedule. Similarly, the ultimate aim is postseason. Any postseason requires success on neutral and away games. So, this experience really could be crucial moving forward.
Again, absolutely, yes, I agree, the lack of home games is disappointing for us fans. But let's take a minute and think about the overall plus/minuses of the schedule before we go throwing around terms like "simply unacceptable." There are definitely quite a few benefits with the schedule to the health of the team, even if it means the fans sacrifice.
Why should anyone go see this team play three teams in the bottom 20% of college basketball and two teams not even in Division 1? How does this home non-conference schedule increase (or even sustain) fan interest? And remember, this is now two years in a row with an awful non-conference home schedule (and this one is worse than last year).
The home schedule isn't great, but there are a lot of opportunities away from home for good/great wins. My hope is if this team gets some good wins away from home that Valpo fans will come out to support their team no matter what the quality of the opponent might be. You either support your team or you don't.
Eddie makes some good points. Even a vaulted program like Butler has Tiffin (?), Southern Indiana (?) Presbyterian, UC-Irvine and Brown on their home schedule.
Wow ... those are some bad games. How many fans will show up to Butler Fieldhouse to see those opponents?
I'm also surprised they have 2 non-DI opponents ... probably have these for RPI purposes.
Obviously the home non-con sucks and we can and should be mad.
However, the ENTIRE home schedule (mvc conference games included) is still way better than anything we had while members of the HL after Butler left. At that point even if we got 2-3 really nice home games for the non-con our conference home schedule was just freaking terrible.
So, for those threatening to give up their season tickets. Settle down Mr. Hyperbolic. Keep your dang tickets as the total value this year is still higher.
Butler's non-D1 opponents are exhibition games. If they played D-1 opponents in those, no one would be able to attend. Based on last year's attendance at their exhibition games, about 7,600 will be in attendance each of the exhibition games.
In terms of their bad D1 games, based on the Kennesaw State (9138), Youngstown State (8022), Western Illinois (7,779) and Morehead State (7122) last year, they'll average about 8,000 (9100 is capacity now) in the Presbyrterian, UC Irvine and Brown matchups.
Quote from: wh on August 22, 2018, 11:51:33 PM
I don't disagree that there are quality road and neutral court opponents on the schedule, but shouldn't there be? Agreeing to play someone at their place or finding a spot in 1 of myriad early season tournaments is the easy stuff. Where good schedulers earn their money is in putting together respectable home schedules, and Luke Gore, et al., failed once again. There are some good home schedules this year in the MVC. Inexcusably, Valpo's is nowhere among them.
Agree that just getting into
any early season tournament is not that difficult, however getting into an early season tournament that includes the opportunity to play a P5 team(s) on a neutral court is another matter entirely. That is very difficult for a mid-major and usually involves 1) building relationships with the people running the tournaments (often by playing in an inferior tournament they run first), 2) planning an additional year or two in advance relative to all other basketball scheduling and 3) a six figure entry fee payment - a major investment for programs without P5 money.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on August 23, 2018, 08:47:08 AM
Obviously the home non-con sucks and we can and should be mad.
However, the ENTIRE home schedule (mvc conference games included) is still way better than anything we had while members of the HL after Butler left. At that point even if we got 2-3 really nice home games for the non-con our conference home schedule was just freaking terrible.
So, for those threatening to give up their season tickets. Settle down Mr. Hyperbolic. Keep your dang tickets as the total value this year is still higher.
Completely agree. The schedule is much better now in the MVC than what the HL would offer right now. The issue is that despite the better league, it doesn't seem to have had a positive effect on attendance. Could be the team's record as shown below. Maybe with Loyola's F4 run more people will show up this year.
Valpo's average home attendance per the NCAA documentation and record for the year:
2017-18 (15-17): 2,722
2016-17 (24-9): 3,086
2015-16 (30-7): 3,572
2014-15 (28-6): 3,066
2013-14 (18-16): 2,833
2012-13 (26-8): 3,173
2011-12 (22-12): 3,383
Quote from: SanityLost17 on August 23, 2018, 08:47:08 AM
Obviously the home non-con sucks and we can and should be mad.
However, the ENTIRE home schedule (mvc conference games included) is still way better than anything we had while members of the HL after Butler left. At that point even if we got 2-3 really nice home games for the non-con our conference home schedule was just freaking terrible.
So, for those threatening to give up their season tickets. Settle down Mr. Hyperbolic. Keep your dang tickets as the total value this year is still higher.
Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone threaten to give up their tickets. I know I didn't. That said, hopefully you can appreciate that those who pay hundreds of dollars every year to support the program through multiple season ticket purchases might legitimately take a bad home OOC schedule more personally than those who don't. How we might take the parking situation more personally than someone who follows the program from Kentucky (pick a state), etc.
Quote from: ml2 on August 23, 2018, 09:12:33 AM
Quote from: wh on August 22, 2018, 11:51:33 PM
I don't disagree that there are quality road and neutral court opponents on the schedule, but shouldn't there be? Agreeing to play someone at their place or finding a spot in 1 of myriad early season tournaments is the easy stuff. Where good schedulers earn their money is in putting together respectable home schedules, and Luke Gore, et al., failed once again. There are some good home schedules this year in the MVC. Inexcusably, Valpo's is nowhere among them.
Agree that just getting into any early season tournament is not that difficult, however getting into an early season tournament that includes the opportunity to play a P5 team(s) on a neutral court is another matter entirely. That is very difficult for a mid-major and usually involves 1) building relationships with the people running the tournaments (often by playing in an inferior tournament they run first), 2) planning an additional year or two in advance relative to all other basketball scheduling and 3) a six figure entry fee payment - a major investment for programs without P5 money.
Six or five? Six means paying over $100,000 to play. That is a BIG expense that a school like Valpo would have a hard time with I would think. Paying 5 figures (say, $20,000) would not be as exorbitant.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 23, 2018, 09:44:52 AM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on August 23, 2018, 08:47:08 AM
Obviously the home non-con sucks and we can and should be mad.
However, the ENTIRE home schedule (mvc conference games included) is still way better than anything we had while members of the HL after Butler left. At that point even if we got 2-3 really nice home games for the non-con our conference home schedule was just freaking terrible.
So, for those threatening to give up their season tickets. Settle down Mr. Hyperbolic. Keep your dang tickets as the total value this year is still higher.
Completely agree. The schedule is much better now in the MVC than what the HL would offer right now. The issue is that despite the better league, it doesn't seem to have had a positive effect on attendance. Could be the team's record as shown below. Maybe with Loyola's F4 run more people will show up this year.
Valpo's average home attendance per the NCAA documentation and record for the year:
2017-18 (15-17): 2,722
2016-17 (24-9): 3,086
2015-16 (30-7): 3,572
2014-15 (28-6): 3,066
2013-14 (18-16): 2,833
2012-13 (26-8): 3,173
2011-12 (22-12): 3,383
For sure. 3500 is about 10% of the Valpo City population. If we only were located in a metro area of over 2 million, maybe we could draw 8,000!
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 23, 2018, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: ml2 on August 23, 2018, 09:12:33 AM
Quote from: wh on August 22, 2018, 11:51:33 PM
I don't disagree that there are quality road and neutral court opponents on the schedule, but shouldn't there be? Agreeing to play someone at their place or finding a spot in 1 of myriad early season tournaments is the easy stuff. Where good schedulers earn their money is in putting together respectable home schedules, and Luke Gore, et al., failed once again. There are some good home schedules this year in the MVC. Inexcusably, Valpo's is nowhere among them.
Agree that just getting into any early season tournament is not that difficult, however getting into an early season tournament that includes the opportunity to play a P5 team(s) on a neutral court is another matter entirely. That is very difficult for a mid-major and usually involves 1) building relationships with the people running the tournaments (often by playing in an inferior tournament they run first), 2) planning an additional year or two in advance relative to all other basketball scheduling and 3) a six figure entry fee payment - a major investment for programs without P5 money.
Six or five? Six means paying over $100,000 to play. That is a BIG expense that a school like Valpo would have a hard time with I would think. Paying 5 figures (say, $20,000) would not be as exorbitant.
That seems high to me also, but ml2 would know. It may also depend on the tournament, as I've read that tourneys like Maui and Bahamas actually pay significant money for teams to participate.
http://www.thebahamasweekly.com/publish/sports/Battle_4_Atlantis_Teams_Announced_for_November_2011_Tournament15544.shtml (http://www.thebahamasweekly.com/publish/sports/Battle_4_Atlantis_Teams_Announced_for_November_2011_Tournament15544.shtml)
Quote from: vu72 on August 23, 2018, 11:14:48 AM
For sure. 3500 is about 10% of the Valpo City population. If we only were located in a metro area of over 2 million, maybe we could draw 8,000!
I understand it's easy to dislike me because I'm a Butler fan, but metro Indy is a much bigger area than you might think.
Indianapolis Metro area - 6,029 square miles
Area of Northwest Indiana (Lake, Porter, LaPorte, Starke, Pulaski, Newton, Jasper counties) and Cook and Will County Illinois - 5,958 square miles
Population - 6,773,164
While I agree valpo should and needs to be drawing more than 3,500, that is nowhere near a fair comparison.
Of course in that area, you still have Loyola UIC DePaul and Northwestern as competing schools plus all the attractions of Chicago to contend with. Also when you get down to the Jasper\Newton\Starke\Pulaski County area you begin to come under the influence of Purdue. A good portion of LaPorte County falls under Notre Dame's sphere of influence and they also carry a lot of weight in Porter County. We won't pull many from Illinois, except for family and friends of players. Our best hope is to market to NWI as best we can.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 23, 2018, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: vu72 on August 23, 2018, 11:14:48 AM
For sure. 3500 is about 10% of the Valpo City population. If we only were located in a metro area of over 2 million, maybe we could draw 8,000!
I understand it's easy to dislike me because I'm a Butler fan, but metro Indy is a much bigger area than you might think.
Indianapolis Metro area - 6,029 square miles
Area of Northwest Indiana (Lake, Porter, LaPorte, Starke, Pulaski, Newton, Jasper counties) and Cook and Will County Illinois - 5,958 square miles
Population - 6,773,164
For what it's worth, I don't hate Butler as some do on this board. The only item I have disagreement with is that Cook and Will county should not be included in that equation. The density of population only adds to the unlikely interest of the population from the IL counties. For crap sake it takes me 50 minutes to travel 17-miles and I am not even in Chicago proper . . . .
time of travel plays an outsized roll in possible attendees to college sporting events.
While exploring demographic info for Valpo and Butler, I came across something called "College Combat." If you plug in Valpo and Butler, it assigns and compares letter grades (A-F) for both schools in several performance areas. Pretty interesting tool. BTW accumulatively Valpo earns a higher grade.
https://www.collegefactual.com/tools/college-combat/#valparaiso-university~butler-university
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 23, 2018, 02:08:28 PM
For what it's worth, I don't hate Butler as some do on this board. The only item I have disagreement with is that Cook and Will county should not be included in that equation. The density of population only adds to the unlikely interest of the population from the IL counties. For crap sake it takes me 50 minutes to travel 17-miles and I am not even in Chicago proper . . . . time of travel plays an outsized roll in possible attendees to college sporting events.
Fair enough - I think we can all agree that there are a ton of factors that go into attendance at a game at any school, not just how many people live in an area. Otherwise Big Ten programs, who generally aren't in major metropolitan areas wouldn't average as many fans as they do.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 23, 2018, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 23, 2018, 02:08:28 PM
For what it's worth, I don't hate Butler as some do on this board. The only item I have disagreement with is that Cook and Will county should not be included in that equation. The density of population only adds to the unlikely interest of the population from the IL counties. For crap sake it takes me 50 minutes to travel 17-miles and I am not even in Chicago proper . . . . time of travel plays an outsized roll in possible attendees to college sporting events.
Fair enough - I think we can all agree that there are a ton of factors that go into attendance at a game at any school, not just how many people live in an area. Otherwise Big Ten programs, who generally aren't in major metropolitan areas wouldn't average as many fans as they do.
No argument here. I am more gripping about my crappy travel time than anything ;)
Check out this article about Nevada's non-conference schedule costs last year. It gives numbers for their non-D1 and D1 buy games, as well as for Nevada's participation in a Tournament in Las Vegas. From my understanding the dollar amounts and contract terms are pretty typical for college basketball right now.
https://www.rgj.com/story/sports/college/nevada/2017/10/27/why-nevada-basketballs-non-league-schedule-cost-200-000/806706001/ (https://www.rgj.com/story/sports/college/nevada/2017/10/27/why-nevada-basketballs-non-league-schedule-cost-200-000/806706001/)
Relating specifically to the tournament, based on the article details, Nevada paid over $200k to "Las Vegas Tournamnt Inc." and got home games against Radford and UC Davis, and neutral site games against Southern Illinois and San Francisco. (the article breaks these payments out on a per game basis, but since the money is going to the tournament promoter and not the opposing school, it's really better to look at this collectively as payment for tournament participation, as opposed to individual "buy" games).
Quote from: wh on August 23, 2018, 02:13:08 PM
While exploring demographic info for Valpo and Butler, I came across something called "College Combat." If you plug in Valpo and Butler, it assigns and compares letter grades (A-F) for both schools in several performance areas. Pretty interesting tool. BTW accumulatively Valpo earns a higher grade.
https://www.collegefactual.com/tools/college-combat/#valparaiso-university~butler-university
WH, that is a nifty little toy. Thanks for sharing. I might have missed a school, but it looks like this ranking has us winning head-to-head against all other MVC teams at present in those categories.
Quote from: ml2 on August 23, 2018, 09:12:33 AMAgree that just getting into any early season tournament is not that difficult, however getting into an early season tournament that includes the opportunity to play a P5 team(s) on a neutral court is another matter entirely. That is very difficult for a mid-major and usually involves 1) building relationships with the people running the tournaments (often by playing in an inferior tournament they run first), 2) planning an additional year or two in advance relative to all other basketball scheduling and 3) a six figure entry fee payment - a major investment for programs without P5 money.
Thanks ml2!!! We are now educated to the politics and nuances of how these early season tourneys are structured and tiered. One and two make total sense but I wasn't aware of #3. I never knew you had to pay to get into these things at this level. Grammar and High School tourneys I know always required payment for refs, renting of equipment, etc. I figured on the major college level corporate sponsorships and TV money took care of the costs associated. Lets hope the 6 figure investment turns into some quality wins and great program exposure.
It doesn't matter what another men's basketball program located somewhere else draws. The city of Valparaiso (and immediate vicinity) is a stable, affluent community that has enjoyed steady, planned growth over many years. Valpo has become a small town shopping meca, the downtown has been completely revitalized, business is booming, new restaurants are popping up everywhere and nicer homes are being sold at or above asking price. Residents are shopping and eating out locally, going to the movies, using city parks and walking/jogging trails, congregating in the very cool downtown area, etc., etc. We even have a YMCA that is a dream facility benchmark. Valpo is the most vibrant community in NWI and beyond - by far. Yet, despite the fact that people have money to spend and are looking for ways to spend it, man's basketball attendance continues in a downward spiral. IMO this is just one of many examples in recent years where the university has shown an inability to connect with the community. As both a lifetime community member and longstanding university supporter, I find this situation highly disappointing.
Quote from: ml2 on August 23, 2018, 03:04:38 PM
Check out this article about Nevada's non-conference schedule costs last year. It gives numbers for their non-D1 and D1 buy games, as well as for Nevada's participation in a Tournament in Las Vegas. From my understanding the dollar amounts and contract terms are pretty typical for college basketball right now.
https://www.rgj.com/story/sports/college/nevada/2017/10/27/why-nevada-basketballs-non-league-schedule-cost-200-000/806706001/ (https://www.rgj.com/story/sports/college/nevada/2017/10/27/why-nevada-basketballs-non-league-schedule-cost-200-000/806706001/)
Relating specifically to the tournament, based on the article details, Nevada paid over $200k to "Las Vegas Tournamnt Inc." and got home games against Radford and UC Davis, and neutral site games against Southern Illinois and San Francisco. (the article breaks these payments out on a per game basis, but since the money is going to the tournament promoter and not the opposing school, it's really better to look at this collectively as payment for tournament participation, as opposed to individual "buy" games).
Really good information ... thanks for sharing.
I may be wrong, but I assume that not all schools paid the same "participation" fee, as you call it. In fact, I'm sure some of the $ paid by Nevada in exchange for hosting two home games found its way to Radford and UC Davis, who both played two road games before moving to the neutral site in Vegas.
Regarding the ticket guarantee money paid, that only becomes a cost to the school if their fan base doesn't step up and buy the allotted tickets. :twocents:
Good stuff.
I definitely agree that on balance the move to the MVC give us a FAR better home schedule. It is just nice to look ahead to Jan-February conference games as a highlight.
In the darker mid-con years there was very little to watch after Christmas.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1032379875577933826
"The objective for our program is to schedule more aggressively and put ourselves in a position where we can compete for an at-large bid to the NCAA Tournament," said head coach Matt Lottich. "We feel like we have a schedule this year which will challenge us with a number of games against high-level opponents."
Teams listed by name RPI day of game attendance and number of days since last home game (Only Post-Butler data used because I plan to look at conference data later
2012-2013 26-8
Georgia Southern 264 FRI 3864
Northern Illinois 333 TUE 2445 4
Chicago State 320 FRI 2477 10
Bethune-Cookman 281 SAT 2088 1
Fort Wayne 254 WED 2179 11
IUPUI 326 THU 1644 15
Purdue-Calumet N\A SAT 1681 2
Eastern Kentucky 69 SAT 3329 7 (Bracketbuster)
2013-2014 18-16
Murray State 145 FRI 4277
North Park N\A SUN 1844 2
James Madison 239 SAT 2453 13
Central Florida 218 TUE 2381 3
Mercer 80 FRI 2574 3
Cincinnati Christian N\A SAT 1965 1
Saint Louis 31 SAT 3564 7
Loyola-Marymount 180 SAT 2548 7
Columbia 125 TUE 1663 14 (CIT game)
2014-2015 28-6
East Tennessee State 192 FRI 2912
IU-South Bend N\A WED 2051 5
New Mexico 172 SAT 4227 17
Trinity International N\A WED 1044 4
Ball State 284 SAT 3188 3
Goshen N\A SUN 1014 8
2015-2016 30-7
Fort Wayne 71 FRI 4117
IU-Kokomo N\A WED 1340 5
Trinity International N\A THU 1422 1
Belmont 95 THU 3379 14
Missouri State 235 SAT 3458 16
Texas Southern 183 TUE 2912 22 (NIT)
Florida State 83 THU 4991 2 (NIT)
St. Mary's 38 TUE 5444 5 (NIT)
2016-2017 24-9
Southern Utah 341 FRI 3560
Trinity International N\A SAT 2588 1
Coppin State 336 MON 1972 2
Ball State 169 SUN 3166 13
Rhode Island 31 TUE 4149 2
Indiana State 233 SAT 2172 18
Santa Clara 125 THU 1854 5
Chicago State 317 WED 2024 6
2017-2018 15-17
North Park N\A FRI 2682
Trinity International N\A MON 2545 3
SELouisiana 150 SUN 2651 6
Samford 296 TUE 2259 2
Utah State 152 TUE 2949 7
Average Nonconference Attendance (All games incl. Non-D1 Bracket Busters\Tournaments)
2012-2013: 2463.4
2013-2014: 2585.4
2014-2015: 2406
2015-2016: 3382.9
2016-2017: 2685.6
2017-2018: 2617.2
Average Nonconference Attendance D1 only:
2012-2013: 2575.1
2013-2014: 2780
2014-2015: 3442.3
2015-2016: 4050.2
2016-2017: 2699.6
2017-2018: 2619.7
Average nonconference Attendance No tournaments or bracket busters:
2012-2013: 2339.7
2013-2014: 2455.1
2014-2015: 2406
2015-2016: 2743.2
2016-2017: 2685.6
2017-2018: 2617.2
Average nonconference Attendance D1 Only No tournaments or bracket busters:
2012-2013: 2449.5
2013-2014: 2966.2
2014-2015: 3442.3
2015-2016: 3651.3
2016-2017: 2699.6
2017-2018: 2619.7
Analysis\Suggestions:
Valpo has a core of approximately 2500 fans who will show up regardless of the opponent.
Team performance and the perceived quality of the opponent matter more than when the game is scheduled, amount of time between games, or even the opponent's RPI.
Home openers tend to draw well especially when the opening opponent is or is thought to be a decent D1 team, and\or there's a banner ceremony. (Georgia Southern Murray State Fort Wayne and Southern Utah)
Conference affiliation of opponents seems to matter as some of our best nonconference draws came against teams from the A10 MWC and MVC (prior to us joining) See: The numbers for New Mexico Missouri State SLU and Rhode Island
Non-P5 In-State games do not seem to move the needle much with the exception of Ball State which offers mild to moderate positive value
Strong mid-major brands like East Tennessee State, Murray State, Utah State, and Belmont provide solid drawing power.
The NIT run was, unsurprisingly, a boon for attendance Yet lesser tournaments were not. Is it because they are new and not established or are they simply not worth playing in?
The loss of the Bracket Buster does not appear to have hurt attendance significantly, but it is impossible to ignore the effect losing a guaranteed draw of 3000+ every two years. This will be offset if the MVC\MWC Challenge continues after its planned brief hiatus or another conference challenge of similar quality can be worked out.
Non-D1s have been a significant drag on attendance until recently. If they are going to be played it is best to play them early in the season. The recent moves of offering free tickets to veterans or free\reduced price tickets to those games have no doubt boosted attendance.
Since such a drastic step had to be taken in order to produce palatable numbers for non-D1s, this analysis still calls for their relegation to the exhibition portion of the schedule. Instead, find another way to reach out charitably, which is a central core value of the university. Perhaps offer $2 off tickets to every game with a donation, or a food voucher for one free item (ice cream, cookie, candy, hot dog, pretzel, nachos, or soda) for anyone who donates an item. Limit one per person.
Another idea is to have everyone who donates leave their name and contact information so that they can be eligible for a prize drawing or spin a prize wheel. (Season tickets premium game tickets, free tickets to a later game of their choosing, free Valpo gear, free food, or partner with community organizations for prizes.
As for what should be donated, that's up to the department. They can have a yearlong cause (such as a food\supply\toy drive for the homeless or for shelter pets) or partner with a different charity every home game. Furthermore, free or reduced price tickets could be offered to people who work for or are served by these charities. Doing so would help to strengthen the bond between the university and the community, and create many new fans, some of whom will return and buy tickets in the future .
VUGrad1314: Thanks.
Your conclusions are similar to the academic study that looked at the same issue at a similar university. That study, however, also found that giveaways and promotions had little impact on attendance at college basketball games.
One question that I have is, what is the source of the attendance numbers? Is it tickets sold, people actually in attendance, or something else? I am skeptical as to whether, for instance, there were 2545 people actually in attendance for the Trinity International game last season on a Monday night.
I pulled the numbers right off the athletic department's website. Whatever and however they calculated\reported, those are the numbers I used. Maybe someone can shed some light on how those numbers are derived.
Quote from: wh on August 23, 2018, 03:57:11 PM
It doesn't matter what another men's basketball program located somewhere else draws. The city of Valparaiso (and immediate vicinity) is a stable, affluent community that has enjoyed steady, planned growth over many years. Valpo has become a small town shopping meca, the downtown has been completely revitalized, business is booming, new restaurants are popping up everywhere and nicer homes are being sold at or above asking price. Residents are shopping and eating out locally, going to the movies, using city parks and walking/jogging trails, congregating in the very cool downtown area, etc., etc. We even have a YMCA that is a dream facility benchmark. Valpo is the most vibrant community in NWI and beyond - by far. Yet, despite the fact that people have money to spend and are looking for ways to spend it, man's basketball attendance continues in a downward spiral. IMO this is just one of many examples in recent years where the university has shown an inability to connect with the community. As both a lifetime community member and longstanding university supporter, I find this situation highly disappointing.
I recently heard this same sentiment made by a faculty member. Admittedly, I don't live there - but I know that the university has a vast array of activities, ranging from plays, concerts, speakers, etc. - as well as basketball and other D1 college sports, in which the university seems to welcome anyone from the community. While I think that interest and attendance in men's basketball is strongly driven by the perceived quality of the team and opponents (plus possible personal connections if there is a local player), I am interested as to why you feel the university is not able to connect with the community.
Some factors I did not control for: Weather, Parking, Effect of streaming service availability, and the effect the switch from a free platform to a paid subscription platform will have. I will explore that question more thoroughly when I look at conference data soon. I will use only post-Butler HL data because the intensity of that rivalry would skew the data.
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 24, 2018, 12:51:51 AM
Quote from: wh on August 23, 2018, 03:57:11 PM
It doesn't matter what another men's basketball program located somewhere else draws. The city of Valparaiso (and immediate vicinity) is a stable, affluent community that has enjoyed steady, planned growth over many years. Valpo has become a small town shopping meca, the downtown has been completely revitalized, business is booming, new restaurants are popping up everywhere and nicer homes are being sold at or above asking price. Residents are shopping and eating out locally, going to the movies, using city parks and walking/jogging trails, congregating in the very cool downtown area, etc., etc. We even have a YMCA that is a dream facility benchmark. Valpo is the most vibrant community in NWI and beyond - by far. Yet, despite the fact that people have money to spend and are looking for ways to spend it, man's basketball attendance continues in a downward spiral. IMO this is just one of many examples in recent years where the university has shown an inability to connect with the community. As both a lifetime community member and longstanding university supporter, I find this situation highly disappointing.
I recently heard this same sentiment made by a faculty member. Admittedly, I don't live there - but I know that the university has a vast array of activities, ranging from plays, concerts, speakers, etc. - as well as basketball and other D1 college sports, in which the university seems to welcome anyone from the community. While I think that interest and attendance in men's basketball is strongly driven by the perceived quality of the team and opponents (plus possible personal connections if there is a local player), I am interested as to why you feel the university is not able to connect with the community.
VU is a tough sell for some locals who tend to be diehard IU, Purdue or ND fans. There are so many large Universities in the area and it's close to Chicago which is predominant pro sports town. We're competing for entertainment dollars (even though a Valpo Basketball game is a great bang for buck***, imo) and attention. It's tough to "breakthrough" and create new fans.
The quality of opponent and quality of Valpo's team that year seems to play the biggest role in attendance, but you also need to factor in things like weather and what other major events are happening at the same time (Bears game, Colts game, or Local HS sports games).
***depending on the opponent. Non-D1s definitely don't qualify for bang for your buck status. Nobody gets excited to see VU beat the pulp out of a non-d1, even our veteran teams don't even get up for those games (ex: VU vs Trinity 1st half 2 years ago).
Conference Attendance (All games Since Joining HL)
22-14 3910.5
9-22 3136.8
15-17 2743.7
23-12 3234.1
22-12 3715.4 9 (HL Champs) Butler's Last Year
26-8 3741.5 (HL Champs) First year Post Butler Loyola Leaves Broekhoff Senior Year
18-16 3081.4 First Year Post Loyola Oakland Formally Joins
28-6 3462.7 (HL Champs) Last year of campus site games
30-7 3830.8 (NIT Year HL Champs Northern Kentucky Formally Joins)
24-9 3443.6 (Peters Senior Year HL Co-Champs) Valpo Leaves for MVC
15-17 2780.6 First Year MVC
RS Only:
4136.6
3136.8
2909.1
3460
3543.9
3709.1
3329.3
3285.6
3830.8
3443.6
2780.6
RS Only (no Butler)
3974.6
2936.8
2614.5
3213.5
3332.3
3709.1
3329.3
3285.6
3830.8
3443.6
2780.6
At first blush, the first year MVC total (2780.6) looks really bad, and considering that we beat that number every year we were in the Horizon except 09-10 (and our regular season numbers do beat that mark with Butler's help) it's not great but consider the following: Our attendance for conference games fell within 20% of the Year 1 MVC mark 4 times in 10 years. Moreover, the numbers through 2011-2012 are juiced by an established rival that provided a guaranteed 4500+ fans once a year. Take that away, and the number of years within 20% of the MVC mark climbs to 6. Since we started winning titles our fifth year, and our highest numbers reflect some of the best years in program history, this indicates that team performance is a major factor in attendance, even for conference games. Games valuable for positioning and games aired on TV also tended to have higher attendance. Furthermore, while many old rivals call the MVC home, many of the teams in the MVC are teams that we haven't played consistently since at least the 70s or 80s if not earlier. That means, many fans weren't born or were very young the last time Valpo and these teams consistently played. The lack of an established go-to rival or rivals probably had a suppressing effect on attendance. There is plenty of reason to believe that as the conference continues to improve, as Valpo fans become more familiar with the teams in the MVC, and Valpo's performance within the conference continues to improve, a rival will emerge and attendance will rise.
I'm not sure it is specific to the university. A lot of people just dont like the city of valpo just like people dont like munster. I do think there are some thoughts of elitism/entitlement regarding the views towards the university (and the city?)...id guess the majority of people in nwi probably couldn't make it into the university. there are similar feelings in south bend and Lafayette too, but both of their alumni and city numbers are larger than valpos so it's not (as) noticeable
https://twitter.com/nwipreps/status/1032743492261498881
MEN'S BASKETBALL: West Virginia, Texas A&M highlight Valparaiso's non-conference schedule
Paul Oren Times Correspondent
Aug 22, 2018
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/west-virginia-texas-a-m-highlight-valparaiso-s-non-conference/article_c6deaa44-3a77-5c8a-a6f5-680093065d48.html
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 24, 2018, 07:55:37 AMid guess the majority of people in nwi probably couldn't make it into the university.
This is 100% true.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 24, 2018, 07:55:37 AMI do think there are some thoughts of elitism/entitlement regarding the views towards the university
I don't know where this comes from.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 24, 2018, 06:53:05 AM
Conference Attendance (All games Since Joining HL)
22-14 3910.5
9-22 3136.8
15-17 2743.7
23-12 3234.1
22-12 3715.4 9 (HL Champs) Butler's Last Year
26-8 3741.5 (HL Champs) First year Post Butler Loyola Leaves Broekhoff Senior Year
18-16 3081.4 First Year Post Loyola Oakland Formally Joins
28-6 3462.7 (HL Champs) Last year of campus site games
30-7 3830.8 (NIT Year HL Champs Northern Kentucky Formally Joins)
24-9 3443.6 (Peters Senior Year HL Co-Champs) Valpo Leaves for MVC
15-17 2780.6 First Year MVC
RS Only:
4136.6
3136.8
2909.1
3460
3543.9
3709.1
3329.3
3285.6
3830.8
3443.6
2780.6
RS Only (no Butler)
3974.6
2936.8
2614.5
3213.5
3332.3
3709.1
3329.3
3285.6
3830.8
3443.6
2780.6
At first blush, the first year MVC total (2780.6) looks really bad, and considering that we beat that number every year we were in the Horizon except 09-10 (and our regular season numbers do beat that mark with Butler's help) it's not great but consider the following: Our attendance for conference games fell within 20% of the Year 1 MVC mark 4 times in 10 years. Moreover, the numbers through 2011-2012 are juiced by an established rival that provided a guaranteed 4500+ fans once a year. Take that away, and the number of years within 20% of the MVC mark climbs to 6. Since we started winning titles our fifth year, and our highest numbers reflect some of the best years in program history, this indicates that team performance is a major factor in attendance, even for conference games. Games valuable for positioning and games aired on TV also tended to have higher attendance. Furthermore, while many old rivals call the MVC home, many of the teams in the MVC are teams that we haven't played consistently since at least the 70s or 80s if not earlier. That means, many fans weren't born or were very young the last time Valpo and these teams consistently played. The lack of an established go-to rival or rivals probably had a suppressing effect on attendance. There is plenty of reason to believe that as the conference continues to improve, as Valpo fans become more familiar with the teams in the MVC, and Valpo's performance within the conference continues to improve, a rival will emerge and attendance will rise.
Great research, thanks for sharing.
Overall attendance in FBS football (king of college sports) can't sustain attendance levels either. They are dropping at historic levels according to NCAA numbers
https://www.athleticbusiness.com/programming/college-football-attendance-continues-decline.html (https://www.athleticbusiness.com/programming/college-football-attendance-continues-decline.html)
Combine that with a millennial generation that is just not as engaged with the college experience and you have a recipe for lower attendance averages. I think this is just the new standard that we have to deal with. We can expect annual basketball game attendance anywhere from 2,700 to 3,300 fans moving forward. The tide rises and lowers all ships, we will get the same relatively low engagement from the community and students despite all our best efforts otherwise.
I suppose the biggest unknown is just how much engagement did we really have (as %) of the community and students during the HL and now MVC years? If that engagement was relatively low (say 10%) then we have room to get back to 3,700/game. If that engagement was already fairly high for our audience, then get used to 2,700.
Either way, filling up the student bleacher section is a must and I applaud the team for getting after them this year. Go VU! Getting excited for fall/winter sports . . . the sports world is right again!
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 24, 2018, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 24, 2018, 07:55:37 AMid guess the majority of people in nwi probably couldn't make it into the university.
This is 100% true.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 24, 2018, 07:55:37 AMI do think there are some thoughts of elitism/entitlement regarding the views towards the university
I don't know where this comes from.
Better article from CBS displaying attendance trends by P5 conference and what years saw the largest drop in attendance. Quite a few since 2011, national trend? How aggressive should we be in fighting this?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-heads-in-wrong-direction-with-largest-attendance-drop-in-34-years/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-heads-in-wrong-direction-with-largest-attendance-drop-in-34-years/)
I'm fuzzy on the details, but didn't the university recently sign on with a nationally renowned sports marketing company? If so, presumably, one of the primary objectives would be some sort of community outreach marketing campaign to improve attendance at men's basketball games. Does anyone recall any details? Are they underway? Etc.?
Quote from: wh on August 24, 2018, 09:37:14 AM
I'm fuzzy on the details, but didn't the university recently sign on with a nationally renowned sports marketing company? If so, presumably, one of the primary objectives would be some sort of community outreach marketing campaign to improve attendance at men's basketball games. Does anyone recall any details? Are they underway? Etc.?
From the athletic department's release announcing the partnership with Van Wagner:
"In addition to selling and managing Valpo's local broadcast and digital media assets, VWSE will negotiate and execute corporate partnerships around properties including the Crusaders' in-venue signage, gameday promotions, rights to athletic marks and in-venue hospitality packages."
Minimally, that has got to contribute to an improvement of the game day experience.
Quote from: vusupporter on August 24, 2018, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: wh on August 24, 2018, 09:37:14 AM
I'm fuzzy on the details, but didn't the university recently sign on with a nationally renowned sports marketing company? If so, presumably, one of the primary objectives would be some sort of community outreach marketing campaign to improve attendance at men's basketball games. Does anyone recall any details? Are they underway? Etc.?
From the athletic department's release announcing the partnership with Van Wagner:
"In addition to selling and managing Valpo's local broadcast and digital media assets, VWSE will negotiate and execute corporate partnerships around properties including the Crusaders' in-venue signage, gameday promotions, rights to athletic marks and in-venue hospitality packages."
Don't forget about the hiring of this guy.
http://valpoathletics.com/athletics/staff/10330/david-kay/
He replaced a women who had this responsibility for several years. Don't recall her name.
Quote from: vu72 on August 24, 2018, 11:27:52 AM
Quote from: vusupporter on August 24, 2018, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: wh on August 24, 2018, 09:37:14 AM
I'm fuzzy on the details, but didn't the university recently sign on with a nationally renowned sports marketing company? If so, presumably, one of the primary objectives would be some sort of community outreach marketing campaign to improve attendance at men's basketball games. Does anyone recall any details? Are they underway? Etc.?
From the athletic department's release announcing the partnership with Van Wagner:
"In addition to selling and managing Valpo's local broadcast and digital media assets, VWSE will negotiate and execute corporate partnerships around properties including the Crusaders' in-venue signage, gameday promotions, rights to athletic marks and in-venue hospitality packages."
Don't forget about the hiring of this guy.
http://valpoathletics.com/athletics/staff/10330/david-kay/
He replaced a women who had this responsibility for several years. Don't recall her name.
It reads like David Kay was hired
by Van Wagner to handle the Valpo account. So I think we have officially outsourced the scheduling and directional decisions on PR and butts in the seats.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 24, 2018, 11:52:21 AM
Quote from: vu72 on August 24, 2018, 11:27:52 AM
Quote from: vusupporter on August 24, 2018, 10:35:21 AM
Quote from: wh on August 24, 2018, 09:37:14 AM
I'm fuzzy on the details, but didn't the university recently sign on with a nationally renowned sports marketing company? If so, presumably, one of the primary objectives would be some sort of community outreach marketing campaign to improve attendance at men's basketball games. Does anyone recall any details? Are they underway? Etc.?
From the athletic department's release announcing the partnership with Van Wagner:
"In addition to selling and managing Valpo's local broadcast and digital media assets, VWSE will negotiate and execute corporate partnerships around properties including the Crusaders' in-venue signage, gameday promotions, rights to athletic marks and in-venue hospitality packages."
Don't forget about the hiring of this guy.
http://valpoathletics.com/athletics/staff/10330/david-kay/
He replaced a women who had this responsibility for several years. Don't recall her name.
It reads like David Kay was hired by Van Wagner to handle the Valpo account. So I think we have officially outsourced the scheduling and directional decisions on PR and butts in the seats.
I should have given this new arrangement more thought when it was first announced. This is actually an important development, especially given that a representative has been assigned exclusively to Valpo and will be accountable for driving results. I don't expect any instant miracles, but it will be interesting to see how this impacts things over time. Kudos to Mark L. and staff.
A gif to describe Paul's latest podcast when talking about the schedule lol.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/12HC8T8F01wqlO/giphy.gif)
I highly encourage anyone who was angry or disappointed about the schedule to give it a listen. He may convince some people to get off the ledge. He made me feel a little better about the home schedule even though it's still pretty bad. It's important to remember we have an awesome conference schedule that will provide very competitive games.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 24, 2018, 08:36:00 PM
A gif to describe Paul's latest podcast when talking about the schedule lol.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/12HC8T8F01wqlO/giphy.gif)
I highly encourage anyone who was angry or disappointed about the schedule to give it a listen. He may convince some people to get off the ledge. He made me feel a little better about the home schedule even though it's still pretty bad. It's important to remember we have an awesome conference schedule that will provide very competitive games.
How much work and effort was required to develop the conference schedule? Answer: None.
What teams did Valpo agree to home and home agreements with for the 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 non-conference schedules? Answer: SIUE and UC-Riverside - two of the worst D1 teams in the country.
How many non-Division 1 opponents are on the non-conference home schedule, with an expectation that season ticket holders will pay money for those 'valuable' tickets and somehow interest in the team will increase? Answer: Two (two more than are acceptable)
As I said previously, the people in the basketball program do a great job in many aspects of their job. I am not arguing that they need to be fired or that fans should intentionally not attend these games. But home scheduling in the last two seasons - which should be measured solely on the non-conference home schedule, since the conference schedule is given - has been awful and they have completely failed in this aspect of their job.
I disagreed with so much in this edition. I also didn't appreciate the shots he took at the fanbase.
1. We DO NOT expect to play Kansas and Kentucky every year. We DO expect to play decent programs from decent conferences that actually test our team and help them compete. Illinois State has FGCU BYU SDSU, Mississippi,AND a top-flight MTE with Belmont and UCF already committed to next year. Southern Illinois has Murray State SLU Winthrop and Buffalo we have two non-D1s and Ball State. One of these things is not like the others. I know next year is going to be better but two years of bad non-con home schedules is very hard to stomach. I understand that MTEs complicate things when it comes to finding dates, and you should NEVER pull out of a good MTE for ANY reason, but you have to think we could have done better. I hope we will next year. Everytime I hear "we tried" it reminds me of those old Avis commercials that show what their business would be like if they didn't go the extra mile to serve their customers. For those who don't remember those commercials, it's not pretty and it doesn't curry much favor with fans who are eager to see the team compete for titles and at-large bids. Bad home schedules that don't adequately prepare the team for conference play has contributed to attendance decline at many schools and was the very pitfall that befell Marty Simmons at Evansville. It is the reason Barry Hinson hasn't sniffed the tournament in all these years. It has also hurt Illinois State in the past before Muller stepped it up
2. Lack of nonconference home games does alienate your fanbase but so does the lack of QUALITY nonconference home games. My research on nonconference attendance confirms this. While RPI isn't that significant a factor perception is. Playing teams like IUPUI Chicago State and non-D1s doesn't work because we know those teams. Teams like High Point Samford Omaha ORU South Dakota and SE Louisiana are great tune up games because they at least come with a chance to be halfway decent while being eminently winnable.
3. Securing meaningless wins against bad competition to gain confidence does nothing to improve your fortunes especially in a league like the MVC. See: The Evansville and SIU examples in #1. All the confidence in the world didn't save our season last year in fact I think we were harmed by our soft nonconference slate. I don't even buy that it gives the team a chance to implement something tactically. Just because it works against Southern Indiana Southern Utah or Southern University does not mean it will work against Southern Illinois. There isn't much to be learned or gained by beating bad teams there is however much to be gained by playing teams around or above your level. Even the Texas Southern analogy is flawed. They get pounded in the nonconference but dominate the SWAC. I don't believe for an instant that that's an accident.
4. While I understand the importance of coming out and supporting the team and attending for the sake of the team, that's hard to do when you're buying multiple tickets. Is it really worth spending $50+ food to take your family of four to see a game that should be over by halftime if Valpo is good and that won't really inform you much about the team's prospects for a given year? Ball State has value George Washington has value an old rival like ORU has value New Mexico SLU and URI have value, Belmont Murray State and East Tennessee State have value as shown by the attendance at those games. By contrast, PNW Concordia wherever Trinity and teams that are perennially bad in low major conferences do not. $12\game is a great value but in a world where midweek schedules are hectic, football and movies are popular, the weather is cold and potentially bad, and all events can be accessed for just $5\month, more value needs to be created in the nonconference home schedule to compel and command attendance. The MVC schedule is amazing and people NEED to be coming out for those games, so, yes the season-long home schedule is great, but the home portion of the nonconference schedule has left much to be desired over the past two years especially. Again, on balance it's a great schedule. The road\neutral and the conference slate are incredible but we'd like to be thrown some reasons to get excited in the early season too if possible.
5. I really do not appreciate you appearing to question the loyalty of fans who voice these concerns and frustrations, especially in light of your being so adamantly against the move to the MVC--a move that has unquestionably moved the program forward and been in its best interests-- for selfish reasons like wanting to get paid to go home to Milwaukee and other big cities where it's obvious that few care about those teams. We are attending FOR Valpo, we want to see Valpo respected and lifted up. Playing and winning against tough opponents will do that far more than pounding on creampuffs. I know there are a bunch of people just waiting to give Valpo their money, give them good games throughout the year and they will. A program that has beaten Oregon State Alabama Florida State East Tennessee State Murray State multiple times St Mary's Belmont BYU twice Rhode Island twice Missouri State multiple times Illinois State Southern Illinois and Bradley as a probably incomplete list since 2011 isn't going to be intimidated by a schedule full of similar teams. Respect where we are embrace where we are and schedule for where we are. That's all we're asking for and it isn't disloyal in the slightest to do so.
Quote from: vu84v2 on August 24, 2018, 10:56:51 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 24, 2018, 08:36:00 PM
A gif to describe Paul's latest podcast when talking about the schedule lol.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/12HC8T8F01wqlO/giphy.gif)
I highly encourage anyone who was angry or disappointed about the schedule to give it a listen. He may convince some people to get off the ledge. He made me feel a little better about the home schedule even though it's still pretty bad. It's important to remember we have an awesome conference schedule that will provide very competitive games.
How much work and effort was required to develop the conference schedule? Answer: None.
What teams did Valpo agree to home and home agreements with for the 2017-2018 and 2018-2019 non-conference schedules? Answer: SIUE and UC-Riverside - two of the worst D1 teams in the country.
How many non-Division 1 opponents are on the non-conference home schedule, with an expectation that season ticket holders will pay money for those 'valuable' tickets and somehow interest in the team will increase? Answer: Two (two more than are acceptable)
As I said previously, the people in the basketball program do a great job in many aspects of their job. I am not arguing that they need to be fired or that fans should intentionally not attend these games. But home scheduling in the last two seasons - which should be measured solely on the non-conference home schedule, since the conference schedule is given - has been awful and they have completely failed in this aspect of their job.
Perfectly stated.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 25, 2018, 01:03:55 AM
I disagreed with so much in this edition. I also didn't appreciate the shots he took at the fanbase.
1. We DO NOT expect to play Kansas and Kentucky every year. We DO expect to play decent programs from decent conferences that actually test our team and help them compete. Illinois State has FGCU BYU SDSU, Mississippi,AND a top-flight MTE with Belmont and UCF already committed to next year. Southern Illinois has Murray State SLU Winthrop and Buffalo we have two non-D1s and Ball State. One of these things is not like the others. I know next year is going to be better but two years of bad non-con home schedules is very hard to stomach. I understand that MTEs complicate things when it comes to finding dates, and you should NEVER pull out of a good MTE for ANY reason, but you have to think we could have done better. I hope we will next year. Everytime I hear "we tried" it reminds me of those old Avis commercials that show what their business would be like if they didn't go the extra mile to serve their customers. For those who don't remember those commercials, it's not pretty and it doesn't curry much favor with fans who are eager to see the team compete for titles and at-large bids. Bad home schedules that don't adequately prepare the team for conference play has contributed to attendance decline at many schools and was the very pitfall that befell Marty Simmons at Evansville. It is the reason Barry Hinson hasn't sniffed the tournament in all these years. It has also hurt Illinois State in the past before Muller stepped it up
2. Lack of nonconference home games does alienate your fanbase but so does the lack of QUALITY nonconference home games. My research on nonconference attendance confirms this. While RPI isn't that significant a factor perception is. Playing teams like IUPUI Chicago State and non-D1s doesn't work because we know those teams. Teams like High Point Samford Omaha ORU South Dakota and SE Louisiana are great tune up games because they at least come with a chance to be halfway decent while being eminently winnable.
3. Securing meaningless wins against bad competition to gain confidence does nothing to improve your fortunes especially in a league like the MVC. See: The Evansville and SIU examples in #1. All the confidence in the world didn't save our season last year in fact I think we were harmed by our soft nonconference slate. I don't even buy that it gives the team a chance to implement something tactically. Just because it works against Southern Indiana Southern Utah or Southern University does not mean it will work against Southern Illinois. There isn't much to be learned or gained by beating bad teams there is however much to be gained by playing teams around or above your level. Even the Texas Southern analogy is flawed. They get pounded in the nonconference but dominate the SWAC. I don't believe for an instant that that's an accident.
4. While I understand the importance of coming out and supporting the team and attending for the sake of the team, that's hard to do when you're buying multiple tickets. Is it really worth spending $50+ food to take your family of four to see a game that should be over by halftime if Valpo is good and that won't really inform you much about the team's prospects for a given year? Ball State has value George Washington has value an old rival like ORU has value New Mexico SLU and URI have value, Belmont Murray State and East Tennessee State have value as shown by the attendance at those games. By contrast, PNW Concordia wherever Trinity and teams that are perennially bad in low major conferences do not. $12\game is a great value but in a world where midweek schedules are hectic, football and movies are popular, the weather is cold and potentially bad, and all events can be accessed for just $5\month, more value needs to be created in the nonconference home schedule to compel and command attendance. The MVC schedule is amazing and people NEED to be coming out for those games, so, yes the season-long home schedule is great, but the home portion of the nonconference schedule has left much to be desired over the past two years especially. Again, on balance it's a great schedule. The road\neutral and the conference slate are incredible but we'd like to be thrown some reasons to get excited in the early season too if possible.
5. I really do not appreciate you appearing to question the loyalty of fans who voice these concerns and frustrations, especially in light of your being so adamantly against the move to the MVC--a move that has unquestionably moved the program forward and been in its best interests-- for selfish reasons like wanting to get paid to go home to Milwaukee and other big cities where it's obvious that few care about those teams. We are attending FOR Valpo, we want to see Valpo respected and lifted up. Playing and winning against tough opponents will do that far more than pounding on creampuffs. I know there are a bunch of people just waiting to give Valpo their money, give them good games throughout the year and they will. A program that has beaten Oregon State Alabama Florida State East Tennessee State Murray State multiple times St Mary's Belmont BYU twice Rhode Island twice Missouri State multiple times Illinois State Southern Illinois and Bradley as a probably incomplete list since 2011 isn't going to be intimidated by a schedule full of similar teams. Respect where we are embrace where we are and schedule for where we are. That's all we're asking for and it isn't disloyal in the slightest to do so.
Perfectly stated.
Quote from: wh on August 25, 2018, 02:03:19 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 25, 2018, 01:03:55 AM
I disagreed with so much in this edition. I also didn't appreciate the shots he took at the fanbase.
1. We DO NOT expect to play Kansas and Kentucky every year. We DO expect to play decent programs from decent conferences that actually test our team and help them compete. Illinois State has FGCU BYU SDSU, Mississippi,AND a top-flight MTE with Belmont and UCF already committed to next year. Southern Illinois has Murray State SLU Winthrop and Buffalo we have two non-D1s and Ball State. One of these things is not like the others. I know next year is going to be better but two years of bad non-con home schedules is very hard to stomach. I understand that MTEs complicate things when it comes to finding dates, and you should NEVER pull out of a good MTE for ANY reason, but you have to think we could have done better. I hope we will next year. Everytime I hear "we tried" it reminds me of those old Avis commercials that show what their business would be like if they didn't go the extra mile to serve their customers. For those who don't remember those commercials, it's not pretty and it doesn't curry much favor with fans who are eager to see the team compete for titles and at-large bids. Bad home schedules that don't adequately prepare the team for conference play has contributed to attendance decline at many schools and was the very pitfall that befell Marty Simmons at Evansville. It is the reason Barry Hinson hasn't sniffed the tournament in all these years. It has also hurt Illinois State in the past before Muller stepped it up
2. Lack of nonconference home games does alienate your fanbase but so does the lack of QUALITY nonconference home games. My research on nonconference attendance confirms this. While RPI isn't that significant a factor perception is. Playing teams like IUPUI Chicago State and non-D1s doesn't work because we know those teams. Teams like High Point Samford Omaha ORU South Dakota and SE Louisiana are great tune up games because they at least come with a chance to be halfway decent while being eminently winnable.
3. Securing meaningless wins against bad competition to gain confidence does nothing to improve your fortunes especially in a league like the MVC. See: The Evansville and SIU examples in #1. All the confidence in the world didn't save our season last year in fact I think we were harmed by our soft nonconference slate. I don't even buy that it gives the team a chance to implement something tactically. Just because it works against Southern Indiana Southern Utah or Southern University does not mean it will work against Southern Illinois. There isn't much to be learned or gained by beating bad teams there is however much to be gained by playing teams around or above your level. Even the Texas Southern analogy is flawed. They get pounded in the nonconference but dominate the SWAC. I don't believe for an instant that that's an accident.
4. While I understand the importance of coming out and supporting the team and attending for the sake of the team, that's hard to do when you're buying multiple tickets. Is it really worth spending $50+ food to take your family of four to see a game that should be over by halftime if Valpo is good and that won't really inform you much about the team's prospects for a given year? Ball State has value George Washington has value an old rival like ORU has value New Mexico SLU and URI have value, Belmont Murray State and East Tennessee State have value as shown by the attendance at those games. By contrast, PNW Concordia wherever Trinity and teams that are perennially bad in low major conferences do not. $12\game is a great value but in a world where midweek schedules are hectic, football and movies are popular, the weather is cold and potentially bad, and all events can be accessed for just $5\month, more value needs to be created in the nonconference home schedule to compel and command attendance. The MVC schedule is amazing and people NEED to be coming out for those games, so, yes the season-long home schedule is great, but the home portion of the nonconference schedule has left much to be desired over the past two years especially. Again, on balance it's a great schedule. The road\neutral and the conference slate are incredible but we'd like to be thrown some reasons to get excited in the early season too if possible.
5. I really do not appreciate you appearing to question the loyalty of fans who voice these concerns and frustrations, especially in light of your being so adamantly against the move to the MVC--a move that has unquestionably moved the program forward and been in its best interests-- for selfish reasons like wanting to get paid to go home to Milwaukee and other big cities where it's obvious that few care about those teams. We are attending FOR Valpo, we want to see Valpo respected and lifted up. Playing and winning against tough opponents will do that far more than pounding on creampuffs. I know there are a bunch of people just waiting to give Valpo their money, give them good games throughout the year and they will. A program that has beaten Oregon State Alabama Florida State East Tennessee State Murray State multiple times St Mary's Belmont BYU twice Rhode Island twice Missouri State multiple times Illinois State Southern Illinois and Bradley as a probably incomplete list since 2011 isn't going to be intimidated by a schedule full of similar teams. Respect where we are embrace where we are and schedule for where we are. That's all we're asking for and it isn't disloyal in the slightest to do so.
Perfectly stated.
1314, did you post that you would NOT go to a game because it was a non-D1? If not HE WASN'T TALKING ABOUT YOU! He clearly directed that at ppl who said they wouldn't attend like that Happening Hoops kid.
Take a step back guys, he did an outstanding job on his podcast saying the grass ain't always greener. Emotions emotions
On the contrary, I encourage people to buy season tickets this year. Not because the nonconference schedule is so awesome but instead to ensure beyond any shadow of a doubt that you get tickets to what should be a much improved home slate next year. That's what I'm thinking of doing.
I think the USH podcast helped me understand and appreciate how the schedule came together. As Paul stated, I hope the fans come out to support the team, no matter who the opponent might be. The MVC schedule will be awesome and I'm hopeful next year's home non-con games will be much improved.
As tough as I've been on the home portion of the schedule,I am REALLY warming to the High Point series. Not only does the thought of Tubby Smith coming to the ARC appeal to me , but he is going to have that program back in short order. Here are their RPIs:
17-18: 273
16-17: 235
15-16: 157
14-15: 88
13-14: 171
Not only that but they are REALLY conveniently located for connecting games, be they buy games or home and homes. The following schools are within an hour and a half of High Point:
Wake Forest (will be in Myrtle Beach this year maybe we can set something up
UNC-Greensboro (Top 100 RPI the last 2 years )
UNC-Charlotte
Davidson
NC State
Duke
North Carolina
Of these, here's my ranking of what I would want and who I would pursue in order:
1. Davidson H and H
2. UNC-Greensboro H and H (assuming they re still strong)
3. Charlotte H and H
4. Wake Forest
5. NC State
6-7. Duke\UNC
With all the "experts" we have on this board, perhaps we should turn over scheduling to one or more of them. Apparently there isn't that much of a problem doing the scheduling. Some of these criticisms are unnecessary and out-of-line and I sure do not blame MLB for not responding to some of the ridiculous comments being made.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 25, 2018, 08:56:49 AM
I think the USH podcast helped me understand and appreciate how the schedule came together. As stated, I hope the fans come out to support the team, no matter who the opponent might be. The MVC schedule will be awesome and I'm hopeful next year's home non-con games will be much improved.
People on this board are hardcore supporters. We all "hope" fans come out to support the team. Heck, nothing would thrill me more than every game packed to the rafters, or anywhere close. Unfortunately, "hope" doesn't decide attendance, reality does. And the reality
of an inexcusably awful home OOC schedule (for the second consecutive year no less) means that we can look for the same dismal level of community support out of the gate as we experienced last year. Remember last year, the year we were consistently running over OOC opponents at home in front of 2500 fans? Remember how after last year's OOC attendance fiasco we were all "hoping" (and predicting) that this year's schedule would be better? And now, next year has arrived and we're looking at a mirror image of last year's "lazy" schedule and "hoping" for something better next year. Then we have to listen to people like Paul Oren put his usual positive spin on it (aka putting lipstick on a pig), regurgitate the "scheduling is hard" excuse, and try to guilt anyone who dares question the effort or result. Then there are those who want to dismiss its importance because we have several worthy conference opponents coming in after the 1st of the year, which would be fine if Local fans already embraced the move to the MVC and showed more interest in watching their home team play Indiana State than Wright State, but they haven't yet. Then there's the argument that the schedul is good "on balance," because of several difficult games away from the ARC. So, what if we lose some of those games, which is very likely? Now add that to the mix, and there will be even less interest in attending a group of early season, home games against a bunch of nobody's. Bottom line - this is not the way to build fan support, something that the program is sorely lacking right now. Or, maybe I'm overthinking this. Maybe it's as simple as build it (winning basketball) and they will come, or spreading pixie dust, or "hoping" hard enough. Whichever the case, I "hope" it all works out.
I listened to the USH podcast, and I'm not buying Paul's defense of the home nonconference games. Paul begins the podcast with a straw man argument by using the strength of the conference schedule in comparison with the Horizon League schedule to help justify the weakness in the home nonconference schedule. Nobody here has any complaint about the conference schedule, and everyone agrees the MVC conference schedule is head and shoulders above the Horizon League. Indeed, fans on this board were strong supporters of joining the MVC long before Paul finally came around. For a long time, it was clear he would have been happy remaining in the Horizon League.
Then Paul states at length that scheduling home nonconference games is "hard." Well, it is hard for everyone, especially mid-majors, yet many others have done better in the past two years. But the timing of scheduled games is also a big problem. Perhaps the two most attractive home nonconference games are also terribly scheduled when students are gone: SIUE from the Ohio Valley is on Thanksgiving eve and Ball State is during Christmas break. (This reminds me of when home games against Oakland were scheduled during Christmas break.)
The only D-1 games on the nonconference schedule while students are in town don't occur until the end of the semester, Dec. 2 & Dec. 4, within a 3-day period during the busiest week when papers are due and just before final exams. Therefore, during the whole Fall semester, students have only a 3-day window to watch a D-1 nonconference game at the ARC. Difficult, and maybe impossible, to build momentum of fan support with this schedule, and that is the main concern many of us have voiced.
Finally, Paul's comparison of fans attending Valpo nonconference games with Kentucky, Duke, and North Carolina fans attending nonconference games is weak until he can legitimately compare the game day experience at the ARC with the game day experience at those places.
It is a different type of game day experience than a top D1 team, but the game day experience at Valpo is great - when they are good and playing a quality opponent. Saint Mary's, URI, Missouri State over the last several years were all mid-major non-conference opponents and the game day experience for each of those games was outstanding. New Mexico and Saint Louis didn't quite rise to that level, but those games certainly created the opportunity for a great game day experience. This non-conference schedule creates no possible opportunity to rise to anything close to that level of experience.
Scheduling is "hard" is used as a justification. I think that most (if not all) of the people on this board have jobs in which part of their job is hard and there are factors that make it difficult to have good outcomes. Yet, their stakeholders (customers, owners, bosses, etc.) don't say, "it is OK to do a poor job in that area". They expect outcomes that meet and exceed their expectations - or they expect admission that this is an issue and a plan to solve the problem. I am very skeptical that this problem is going to be resolved next season. Given that they must know that this non-conference home schedule is awful (if they don't, I do question whether they should be in their job), why didn't the schedule announcement include any mention that the GW road game is part of a newly agreed to home and home agreement? And while I have seen speculation on this board that Vanderbilt has some form of agreement to play at Valpo as part of Bryce leaving, I am dubious as to whether that is a written binding agreement - and guess that it might be written in some non-binding form like "best effort" or "if not possible, financial considerations will be mutually agreed to" or (worse) is just a verbal agreement (if it is not in writing, it does not exist).
Quote from: valpo64 on August 25, 2018, 10:29:49 AM
With all the "experts" we have on this board, perhaps we should turn over scheduling to one or more of them. Apparently there isn't that much of a problem doing the scheduling. Some of these criticisms are unnecessary and out-of-line and I sure do not blame MLB for not responding to some of the ridiculous comments being made.
With all due respect, can you please provide some detail on what comments by any posters criticizing the non-conference schedule have been out-of-line or ridiculous? To my knowledge, there have been no personal attacks and the expectations of non-conference home scheduling seem realistic.
Have season ticket prices been announced yet? I assume with a schedule release it has (or should have) been but I've not seen it or received anything.
Couple Thoughts:
1. I don't think Paul was taking a shot at anyone during the podcast. I thought he asked a fair question in, "Do you go to see the Valpo's opponent or do you go to support Valpo Basketball?" I'm with him on this one but I'm also with others who want to see quality opponents in the ARC that will be competitive and meaningful games. I'm not going to lie. I will be excited to see the Concordia game because it will be the home opener and I want to see the young guys and see how our guys look. There will also be general excitement for the home opener if it's against a terrible opponent that we have no business playing. I think fans want to see meaningful games at the ARC and a lot of the SIUE's and UCR's don't provide that (UCR is a little different, I hope our guys beat them so bad that the other coach asks for a mercy rule because of what happened last season). I can accept some less than stellar opponents coming to the ARC IF we have at least 1 or (hopefully) 2 of the "name brand" mid-major programs coming here to play us: St. Mary's, FGCU, Dayton, BYU, VCU, Vermont, Murray State, Belmont, etc. Get at least a few of the those games where fans can mark their calendar and say, "I can't miss this one". I understand the challenges of scheduling but it needs to be better than what we have this season. The only OOC home game that I can say I'm really excited to see is the Ball State game and they couldn't even manage to play these games while students are on campus...
2. I think we all need take a macro view from the Coaches perspective. They need games where we can "expect" wins. No can argue that we didn't put together a good and strong away/neutral site schedule that will very much test this team. I love that coaches schedule tough on the road. We were all calling for that in years past and they delivered on that this season. But one thing to keep in mind is that there is a reasonable chance that we could have a losing record on the road this season.
Nov 1: Indianapolis (Home Exhibition): W
Nov 6: Concordia (Home): W
Nov 15: WKU (neutral): L (I think we have a chance to win but the betting odds will be on WKU)
Nov 16: Monmouth (Neutral): W
Nov 18: TBD (Wake Forest/St. Joe's/Cal State Fullerton): W (I'll be generous & give us a W, but it very well could be a loss)
Nov 21: SIUE (home): W
Nov 24: WVU (away): L
Nov 28: UNLV (away): L (another game I think we have a shot to win, but odds will for a loss)
Dec 2: UCR (home): W (we better win)
Dec 4: High Point (home): W
Dec 8: GWU (away): W (I give us the W here, because I think our team is more talented on paper but you never know on the road)
Dec 17: Ball State (home): W (won't be a easy game but I'm give us the W because it's at home. We almost beat them on the road last year without Tevonn)
Dec 19: Texas A&M (away): L
Dec 29: PNW (home) W
Potential Record: 10-4 (but it very well could be .500 record of 7-7)
When you get to the Conference schedule it will be tough and we may only be barely above .500 at 10-8. Or maybe we how a below .500 record of 8-10. So imagine a scenario of us going 7-7 in OOC and maybe going 8-10 in conference play, with a record of 15-17. Two straight losing season could make recruiting more difficult for that big and very important 2020 recruiting class that may have up 7 scholarships to fill.
3. I do think it's a crappy home schedule and I do think it needs to get better in the future, but I'm willing to give it time. We already know the 2019-20 home schedule will be light years better than this season home OOC slate with GW and the strong rumored Vandy series beginning at home. We were locked into the SIUE/UCR series while were in the HL. Hopefully being in the MVC will allow us to get into better series.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 25, 2018, 03:57:19 PMThe only OOC home game that I can say I'm really excited to see is the Ball State game and they couldn't even manage to play these games while students are on campus...
I understand this concern, but the basketball season covers a portion of the school year where students are away from campus a lot. Valpo, like most schools, won't play games during finals week, so that adds more challenges.
This is an example of conflicting priorities ... from a student/athlete perspective, it's better to play games while those athletes aren't in class, but that's not best for normal students who want to attend games. Ideally, the MTE tournament would fall over Thanksgiving or mid-term break, but that didn't work out for Valpo this year. Regarding conference home games that happen before students return, well Valpo doesn't control that. Same with game that might happen over spring break.
This is no different from the challenges every DI program faces ... hopefully, local fans and students who live nearby step up and attend these games.
I guarantee Valpo is not the only school where attendance is at least in part driven by the real or perceived quality of the game ESPECIALLY as far as casual fans are concerned.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 25, 2018, 05:46:14 PM
I guarantee Valpo is not the only school where attendance is at least in part driven by the real or perceived quality of the game ESPECIALLY as far as casual fans are concerned.
Attendance is down across the board in CBB. I do think perceived quality of opponents does drive some of the attendance but it's not the only factor. I do think our poor home schedule in OOC will probably have an affect on attendance, but it's important to remember that the Coaches and Athletics Dept have more factors to weigh than just the OOC attendance. They know the fans are ticked about it. Hopefully it consistently gets better then what we have this season in terms of home OOC schedules.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 25, 2018, 08:07:07 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 25, 2018, 05:46:14 PM
I guarantee Valpo is not the only school where attendance is at least in part driven by the real or perceived quality of the game ESPECIALLY as far as casual fans are concerned.
Attendance is down across the board in CBB. I do think perceived quality of opponents does drive some of the attendance but it's not the only factor. I do think our poor home schedule in OOC will probably have an affect on attendance, but it's important to remember that the Coaches and Athletics Dept have more factors to weigh than just the OOC attendance. They know the fans are ticked about it. Hopefully it consistently gets better then what we have this season in terms of home OOC schedules.
2014, I think you've made some good points, but I agree with 1314 here in that the quality of the opponent is a major factor in attendance. Generally speaking, attendance for NIT games at most schools is far lower than what they see during the regular season, but for Valpo's run in 2016, their 2 biggest ticket draws of the season were home games against Florida State and Saint Mary's (on a Thursday and Tuesday night, no less). It'd be nice if people were that die hard that they'd come and cheer no matter who Valpo was playing, but ultimately people are choosing how to spend their entertainment dollars, and more people are going to spend when it's an opponent they know and can get excited about. I would venture to guess that the Loyola game is going to be a hot ticket this year. Other MVC games should be too, but because the casual fan doesn't know the name, it's a harder sell even if Valpo is good.
Quote from: Chairback on August 25, 2018, 01:57:13 PM
Have season ticket prices been announced yet? I assume with a schedule release it has (or should have) been but I've not seen it or received anything.
I haven't received a mailing yet. I looked at the athletics website, and can't find a place to order basketball tickets. The only brochure I could find online was for the '17-'18 season. The games start in 2 months ... hard to believe this information isn't yet available. I wonder if the new marketing firm being involved has slowed the process.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 27, 2018, 12:12:46 PMQuote from: Chairback on August 25, 2018, 01:57:13 PMHave season ticket prices been announced yet? I assume with a schedule release it has (or should have) been but I've not seen it or received anything.
I haven't received a mailing yet. I looked at the athletics website, and can't find a place to order basketball tickets. The only brochure I could find online was for the '17-'18 season. The games start in 2 months ... hard to believe this information isn't yet available. I wonder if the new marketing firm being involved has slowed the process.
If my failing memory serves me at all, I think ticket info for season ticket holders was sent out the beginning of September last year. I would not expect anything regarding tickets until after the Conference schedule release.
Quote from: VUBBFan on August 27, 2018, 01:15:18 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 27, 2018, 12:12:46 PMQuote from: Chairback on August 25, 2018, 01:57:13 PMHave season ticket prices been announced yet? I assume with a schedule release it has (or should have) been but I've not seen it or received anything.
I haven't received a mailing yet. I looked at the athletics website, and can't find a place to order basketball tickets. The only brochure I could find online was for the '17-'18 season. The games start in 2 months ... hard to believe this information isn't yet available. I wonder if the new marketing firm being involved has slowed the process.
If my failing memory serves me at all, I think ticket info for season ticket holders was sent out the beginning of September last year. I would not expect anything regarding tickets until after the Conference schedule release.
Paul mentioned on Union Street Hoops that the Conference Schedules would be released within the next 2 weeks or so.
He also mentioned that Valpo has a "secret practice" against UIC this Fall. This could be really competitive. I don't think much of Steve McClain when comes to his Xs and Os coach but the man can recruit. UIC has a lot of talented players that should be reaching their collegiate prime this season and they could be in contention for the HL title this year. I'd actually be more interested in watching this closed to the public scrimmage opponent than 85% of our home OOC schedule.
don't we have to wait on the MVC to announce the League Schedule before we can publish our full schedule?
Quote from: valpo64 on August 27, 2018, 04:15:22 PM
don't we have to wait on the MVC to announce the League Schedule before we can publish our full schedule?
Yes, but do you have to wait for the final schedule to start selling season tickets? It seems like most other MVC schools started accepting renewals in the spring and sent out season ticket brochures in June. Maybe Valpo did something similar, but I certainly haven't seen anything in the mail or online.
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 27, 2018, 07:57:16 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on August 27, 2018, 04:15:22 PM
don't we have to wait on the MVC to announce the League Schedule before we can publish our full schedule?
Yes, but do you have to wait for the final schedule to start selling season tickets? It seems like most other MVC schools started accepting renewals in the spring and sent out season ticket brochures in June. Maybe Valpo did something similar, but I certainly haven't seen anything in the mail or online.
Not sure how you can price season tickets until you know how many home games you have.
Quote from: wh on August 27, 2018, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on August 27, 2018, 07:57:16 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on August 27, 2018, 04:15:22 PM
don't we have to wait on the MVC to announce the League Schedule before we can publish our full schedule?
Yes, but do you have to wait for the final schedule to start selling season tickets? It seems like most other MVC schools started accepting renewals in the spring and sent out season ticket brochures in June. Maybe Valpo did something similar, but I certainly haven't seen anything in the mail or online.
Not sure how you can price season tickets until you know how many home games you have.
Good point. I guess we'll see something once the MVC schedule is released. No need to jump the gun ... although given the age of the folks in the chairbacks, I'd prefer to get their money sooner than later.
A little respect, please. :) :)
They do know how many home games they have the instant the nonconference schedule is finalized and that's even before the schedule is actually released. They have however many non-con home games they've scheduled plus nine conference games from the double round robin. Until the double round robin is abolished through expansion you'll always know how many home games you have. Even then, I would think that the conference would assure all schools an even home-road split.
Quote from: wh on August 27, 2018, 08:15:50 PM
Not sure how you can price season tickets until you know how many home games you have.
Including exhibitions, they have 16 home games.
I was an assistant men's soccer coach at Oral Roberts University for a couple of years. Very very small budget made it difficult to schedule. Besides Tulsa University, the next closest men's soccer program was Missouri St. (3 hours), UMKC (4 hours) SMU (5 hours) and Central Arkansas (5 hours).
Often we found ourselves trying to team up with Tulsa University who could attract a heavy hitter to come play them and us. (Loyola, UIC?)
We also found ourselves buying dinner and hotel rooms (would always get a good discount because the University had partnerships) for visiting teams. If we wanted home games we would offer dinners and hotel rooms because that would be less than us getting a charter bus, hotel rooms, eating and traveling to play someone. It made more financial since for us to buy incoming teams dinner and hotel rooms.
Quote from: oklahomamick on August 28, 2018, 12:25:16 PMI was an assistant men's soccer coach at Oral Roberts University for a couple of years. Very very small budget made it difficult to schedule. Besides Tulsa University, the next closest men's soccer program was Missouri St. (3 hours), UMKC (4 hours) SMU (5 hours) and Central Arkansas (5 hours). Often we found ourselves trying to team up with Tulsa University who could attract a heavy hitter to come play them and us. (Loyola, UIC?) We also found ourselves buying dinner and hotel rooms (would always get a good discount because the University had partnerships) for visiting teams. If we wanted home games we would offer dinners and hotel rooms because that would be less than us getting a charter bus, hotel rooms, eating and traveling to play someone. It made more financial since for us to buy incoming teams dinner and hotel rooms.
Are you suggesting this as a model for future scheduling in light of Loyola's Final 4 run? I like it. Let's start with St. Joseph's.
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/1034956025810616321
Valparaiso coach Matt Lottich embraces 'challenges' of nonconference schedule
Michael Osipoff
Post-Tribune
August 29, 2018
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-spt-mens-basketball-valparaiso-notes-st-0830-story.html
No matter how many times he says it or how many articles there are about it, I'll never believe this is a good out of conference schedule. Every year you could load your schedule with buy games if you wanted to...they're the easiest to get. Once the schedule is all D1 and theres a few decent home games, then we can talk. Until then, these articles are fluff pieces.
Matt said that it is difficult to get teams to play here at Valpo. Why is at? Could it be the ARC? Could it be that we have a 1987 small college gym? Could it be.....
What's the biggest arena within 30 miles of the campus? Get opponents scheduled by having games in whatever venue will attract them. OR upgrade the darned place and make it attractive to play us here.
I'm starting to get tired of the excuses. Valpo wants to be D-I? Act like it.
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 29, 2018, 08:43:16 PMCould it be.....
that in the past 11 years (since joining the HL) we are 72-11 at home in OOC games?... 21-1 in the past 3 years? (santa clara 2OT loss); 28-2 going back 4 years, adding the loss to New Mexico?
Going back 5 years, I'm still on one hand counting the OOC losses in the "Friendly confines"... 13'14 season 3OT loss to Mercer, Buzzer Beater to SLU and the CIT game to Columbia.
since 2011 we are 45-5 at home.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 29, 2018, 07:11:16 PM
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/1034956025810616321
Valparaiso coach Matt Lottich embraces 'challenges' of nonconference schedule
Michael Osipoff
Post-Tribune
August 29, 2018
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-spt-mens-basketball-valparaiso-notes-st-0830-story.html
Best statement from the article:
The Crusaders begin a home-and-home at George Washington on Dec. 8. Good to see this specifically mentioned.
Worst quote from the article:
And we're home against teams that have been good. High Point's performance several years ago is virtually meaningless. This could be attributed to Ball State, but the others are non-D1s or teams that have never been above awful in D1.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 29, 2018, 08:37:20 PM
No matter how many times he says it or how many articles there are about it, I'll never believe this is a good out of conference schedule. Every year you could load your schedule with buy games if you wanted to...they're the easiest to get. Once the schedule is all D1 and theres a few decent home games, then we can talk. Until then, these articles are fluff pieces.
It actually is a good and tough non conference schedule but the home OOC games are bad this year.
If we did win the majority of the tough P5 opponents and that WKU game, we'd probobly be in the hunt for a at-large bid going into conference play. Would I bet on us winning those games? No.
Quote from: talksalot on August 30, 2018, 08:08:02 AM
since 2011 we are 45-5 at home.
Wow! With a home record like that we should be drawing at least 4500+ a night...but we're not. Not even close. Hmmm, I wonder why? Could it be...?
Quote from: crusaderjoe on August 30, 2018, 10:59:58 AM
Quote from: talksalot on August 30, 2018, 08:08:02 AM
since 2011 we are 45-5 at home.
Wow! With a home record like that we should be drawing at least 4500+ a night...but we're not. Not even close. Hmmm, I wonder why? Could it be...?
Could that home success also drive away the type of quality games we search out? I am not sure of that statement, but you have to figure coaches know the "tough places to play" list quite well. We as fans get excited when Valpo is listed as a tough environment for visitors but that becomes a double edge sword. Especially when we were an RPI drag.
Time will tell with this new metric but I don't have high hopes of great improvement in this category (home OOC). Considering OOC has shrunk by 1-game due to P6 scheduling more conference games . . .
Quick research shows our fellow MVC members home OOC schedules (attached). Couldn't quickly find UNI or Indian State to this point.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 30, 2018, 12:27:07 PM
Quick research shows our fellow MVC members home OOC schedules (attached). Couldn't quickly find UNI or Indian State to this point.
Tried using the "attachments and other options" function and nothing happened. Anyone able to provide guidance? I have a chart of MVC home OOC schedules I was trying to link.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 30, 2018, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 30, 2018, 12:27:07 PM
Quick research shows our fellow MVC members home OOC schedules (attached). Couldn't quickly find UNI or Indian State to this point.
Tried using the "attachments and other options" function and nothing happened. Anyone able to provide guidance? I have a chart of MVC home OOC schedules I was trying to link.
Never mind, it's just not that easy to view unless you click deeper into the thread. It is linked.
To my knowledge UNI and Indiana State haven't released their schedules yet.
What conclusions do you draw from the data you've compiled?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 30, 2018, 11:57:41 AM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on August 30, 2018, 10:59:58 AM
Quote from: talksalot on August 30, 2018, 08:08:02 AM
since 2011 we are 45-5 at home.
Wow! With a home record like that we should be drawing at least 4500+ a night...but we're not. Not even close. Hmmm, I wonder why? Could it be...?
Could that home success also drive away the type of quality games we search out? I am not sure of that statement, but you have to figure coaches know the "tough places to play" list quite well. We as fans get excited when Valpo is listed as a tough environment for visitors but that becomes a double edge sword. Especially when we were an RPI drag.
Time will tell with this new metric but I don't have high hopes of great improvement in this category (home OOC). Considering OOC has shrunk by 1-game due to P6 scheduling more conference games . . .
I got a different and slightly more favorable result. I started with the 2010/11 season (which I assume was the other starting point) and included all regular season home games and post-season home games. I excluded all exhibitions.
WINS VS. NON-D-I: 16
WINS VS. D-I: 35
TOTAL WINS: 51LOSSES VS. NON-D-I: 0
LOSSES VS. D-1: 8
TOTAL LOSSES: 8The attached spread [click to enlarge] also reflects our OOC home scheduling pattern over the same eight full seasons but does not cover this years scheduling.
That's a fantastic record but it's kind of cheapened by the fact that over 30% of the wins aren't even against D1 competition. Sometimes it feels like we're scheduling home games more to protect that reputation which will be busted soon anyway if we don't tighten things up in conference play rather than putting together a home schedule that enhances that reputation by attracting the fans necessary to make it a tough raucous environment. Subtract the non-D1s bracket busters conference challenges and postseason games and you get 29-6. Still a very solid mark but not as imposing as 51-8 and it takes some of the best programs we've beaten off the list.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 30, 2018, 12:46:29 PM
To my knowledge UNI and Indiana State haven't released their schedules yet.
What conclusions do you draw from the data you've compiled?
My goal was to assist ppl in realizing that our home OOC schedule is fine when taking into consideration the difficulty we have neutral/road OOC. But as I sit here looking at it . . . . our home OOC just sucks.
Also, that MVC Illinois schools have a legit home schedule this year. Southern and Illinois State have some great home games on their slate.
Southern Illinois home gamesBuffalo Arkansas Pine Bluff Howard Saint Louis Murray State Winthrop
Illinois State home gamesLewis Augustana FGCU Chicago State Lindenwood
BYU San Diego State Ole Miss Cleveland State
Both SIU and Illinois State are examples of a good and realistic home schedule for any MVC team. It looks like Illinois State has a few non-D1s on their regular season home schedule (as well as Chicago State, which should be dismissed from D1 and closed as a university), but they more than make up for it with BYU and San Diego State. SDSU is a really strong get for ISU. FGCU is a solid mid-major to schedule as well.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on August 30, 2018, 02:01:16 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on August 30, 2018, 12:46:29 PMTo my knowledge UNI and Indiana State haven't released their schedules yet. What conclusions do you draw from the data you've compiled?
My goal was to assist ppl in realizing that our home OOC schedule is fine when taking into consideration the difficulty we have neutral/road OOC. But as I sit here looking at it . . . . our home OOC just sucks. Also, that MVC Illinois schools have a legit home schedule this year. Southern and Illinois State have some great home games on their slate. Southern Illinois home games Buffalo Arkansas Pine Bluff Howard Saint Louis Murray State Winthrop Illinois State home games Lewis Augustana FGCU Chicago State Lindenwood BYU San Diego State Ole Miss Cleveland State
And you haven't even seen UNI yet. Even Indiana State has WKU coming to Terre Haute. Next year is the year for Valpo. No more holdover series from the HL days. Time to step it up in a major way.
Edit: Just checked out UNI's schedule and it looks a lot like Valpo's (unless the final two games left TBA are amazing home games.)
ISUr, ISUb and SIU have arenas that can hold a lot more fans than the ARC (or Gentile for that matter). Each has a larger student body to draw from. Given those advantages over "tiny" Valpo, could favorable splits on the gate attract better OOC visitors (or at least make them listen to offers)? I don't even know if there are splits.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1035592413761466368
Quote from: VU2014 on August 31, 2018, 01:21:08 PM
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1035592413761466368
That comment is "click bait". That is like saying if you are not a multi-national corporation you don't contribute to the US economy. Per Business Insider (2012) 90% of American corporations have less than 20 employees . . . and 50% of US employment is from small and medium sized businesses.
It's definitely meant to create a reaction in people but the point still stands that the 20 game conference schedule definitely hurts mid-majors. Mid-Major basketball isn't going anywhere but the already uphill battle is getting even more challenging. Rothstein got a quote from an anonymous Big 10 AD last year, basically admitting to purposely trying to shut out mid-majors from the at-large bid consideration.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 31, 2018, 01:54:06 PM
It's definitely meant to create a reaction in people but the point still stands that the 20 game conference schedule definitely hurts mid-majors. Mid-Major basketball isn't going anywhere but the already uphill battle is getting even more challenging. Rothstein got a quote from an anonymous Big 10 commissioner last year, basically admitting to trying to purposely trying to shut out mid-majors from the at-large bid consideration.
Maybe I am wayyyyyy too pessimistic / realistic but that has been my assumption for decades. It certainly makes me shake my head, but why should athletics be any different than the real world in where those who "have" make the rules for all others?
I swear I am not depressed ??? just realistic :thumbsup:
Quote from: VU2014 on August 31, 2018, 01:54:06 PM
It's definitely meant to create a reaction in people but the point still stands that the 20 game conference schedule definitely hurts mid-majors. Mid-Major basketball isn't going anywhere but the already uphill battle is getting even more challenging. Rothstein got a quote from an anonymous Big 10 AD last year, basically admitting to purposely trying to shut out mid-majors from the at-large bid consideration.
Those P6 ADs don't seem to realize that without the final four run by Loyola and the #16 UMBC win over a #1 seed that NCAA tournament would suck and their viewing numbers would be way down. Will they ever learn what truly drives the excitement at the NCAA tournament? It wasn't Villanova's run, it was Loyola's run with their lucky mascot, Sister Jean. Anyone remember the name of Villanova's lucky mascot? Hell no!
A interesting poll that is relevant to our discussion topic on this thread. It's a national poll, rather than just Valpo focused.
https://twitter.com/EmptySeatsPics/status/1036258901069639680
Quote from: VU2014 on September 02, 2018, 02:51:37 PM
A interesting poll that is relevant to our discussion topic on this thread. It's a national poll, rather than just Valpo focused.
https://twitter.com/EmptySeatsPics/status/1036258901069639680
I can't imagine anyone honestly answering "no" to this. I will likely attend every home game this season, but if I had a significant conflict on a night when we played a DII school, I would feel better about missing that game than if it were a contender for the conference championship.
Quote from: humbleopinion on September 02, 2018, 04:28:51 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 02, 2018, 02:51:37 PM
A interesting poll that is relevant to our discussion topic on this thread. It's a national poll, rather than just Valpo focused.
https://twitter.com/EmptySeatsPics/status/1036258901069639680
I can't imagine anyone honestly answering "no" to this. I will likely attend every home game this season, but if I had a significant conflict on a night when we played a DII school, I would feel better about missing that game than if it were a contender for the conference championship.
Maybe it's just me but I feel quality of opponent means less for pro sports than it does for college sports. For example if it's a pro baseball game I'm still be entertained if the Cubs are playing the Orioles, but of course if they are playing the Brewers it's a better game because they are better opponent and a divisional rival. For football it means less because there are so few games in a season I'll go no matter what. For college basketball the quality schedule of the opponent matters more to me.
MVC Schedule is out! Starts with two of the expected top 4 3 SAT home games Loyola on Sunday No excuses for fans Show up
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/schedule/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 04, 2018, 12:31:25 PM
MVC Schedule is out! Starts with two of the expected top 4 3 SAT home games Loyola on Sunday No excuses for fans Show up
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/schedule/
You have to love the MVC conference schedule. Every home game is worthy of being a sell-out. (I'm not kidding).
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 04, 2018, 12:31:25 PM
MVC Schedule is out! Starts with two of the expected top 4 3 SAT home games Loyola on Sunday No excuses for fans Show up
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/schedule/
Wow! I don't think we could have asked for a better home schedule! :clap:
Why you should go:
JAN 2: Illinois State Projected MVC Title Contender\at-large contender Possible NBA Player (Yarbrough)
JAN 5: Bradley: Wardle Coaches them That should be enough Need more? Likely top 100 team with a talented roster
JAN 19: UNI: Revenge game for the way they embarrassed us on Senior Night last year Pickford is a stud Green was a top 100 recruit Saturday game
JAN 26: Drake: Saturday game Local players on the team First look at their new coach
JAN 29: Missouri State: Revenge game This team embarrassed us in our home debut First look at their new coach Local player on roster
FEB 10: Loyola: Final 4 team Enough Said
FEB 13: Indiana State: In-State rival Barnes and Neese are and should be prolific scorers Saturday Game Last year's game was a tremendous battle
FEB 20: SIU: Potential MVC title\at-large contender Very talented roster Chance to see Thik Bol if healthy
MAR 2: Evansville: Saturday game In-state rival First look at new coach
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 04, 2018, 12:56:23 PM
Why you should go:
JAN 2: Illinois State Projected MVC Title Contender\at-large contender Possible NBA Player (Yarbrough)
JAN 5: Bradley: Wardle Coaches them That should be enough Need more? Likely top 100 team with a talented roster
JAN 19: UNI: Revenge game for the way they embarrassed us on Senior Night last year Pickford is a stud Green was a top 100 recruit Saturday game
JAN 26: Drake: Saturday game Local players on the team First look at their new coach
JAN 29: Missouri State: Revenge game This team embarrassed us in our home debut First look at their new coach Local player on roster
FEB 10: Loyola: Final 4 team Enough Said
FEB 13: Indiana State: In-State rival Barnes and Neese are and should be prolific scorers Saturday Game Last year's game was a tremendous battle
FEB 20: SIU: Potential MVC title\at-large contender Very talented roster Chance to see Thik Bol if healthy
MAR 2: Evansville: Saturday game In-state rival First look at new coach
Yep, these matchups are exciting. I'm looking forward to receiving my season ticket order form in the mail.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 04, 2018, 12:56:23 PM
Why you should go:
JAN 2: Illinois State Projected MVC Title Contender\at-large contender Possible NBA Player (Yarbrough)
JAN 5: Bradley: Wardle Coaches them That should be enough Need more? Likely top 100 team with a talented roster
JAN 19: UNI: Revenge game for the way they embarrassed us on Senior Night last year Pickford is a stud Green was a top 100 recruit Saturday game
JAN 26: Drake: Saturday game Local players on the team First look at their new coach
JAN 29: Missouri State: Revenge game This team embarrassed us in our home debut First look at their new coach Local player on roster
FEB 10: Loyola: Final 4 team Enough Said
FEB 13: Indiana State: In-State rival Barnes and Neese are and should be prolific scorers Saturday Game Last year's game was a tremendous battle
FEB 20: SIU: Potential MVC title\at-large contender Very talented roster Chance to see Thik Bol if healthy
MAR 2: Evansville: Saturday game In-state rival First look at new coach
Definitely a great slate of home games!
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball/status/1037024240850137089
Now that the full schedule is out, does anyone know when season tickets will go on sale? With so many Saturday/Sunday games, I think demand should be up quite a bit this year.
The MVC conference is such a huge plus for regular season excitement. What a coup to have joined.
But here are a few cautionary notes. They can be overcome by VU, but you have to be proactive. To me, home crowds seem the biggest factor on Saturday games. Moreso than mid-week games. My theory is they draw more students and bigger and louder crowds.
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Valpo hosts Loyola on a Sunday. We will probably get a great number. But will it be a daytime crowd of townies rather than fill a night game full of students? Will see. Better promote it somehow!
We get SATURDAY HOME GAMES on January 19 and 26. Great! These seem to give us an ideal time of year for big turnouts and use back to back games to build attendance momentum. But.......
,
.......according to some on this board. the greek activities are an irresolvable conflict in those weeks. And omg you just CAN'T compete with that! Nor can you employ any logical coordination of greek activity around basketball. Please prove me wrong greek leaders!
I have to say: This all feels so much more awesome and exciting the second time. Don't get me wrong I was stoked last year but everything happened so fast. The lead-up to the season felt like such a blur. Now, with the ability to take everything in and enjoy each event for what it is, I just feel so thrilled and happy we're in this conference. Thanks again to President Heckler, MLB, the Valpo board, the Drew family, coach Lottich, all the donors, Alec, Rowdy, Vashil, and all the other tremendous players and people who have represented this fine institution with such class, grace, and dignity over the years. This is your accomplishment--all of you--and the pride you should feel should be immeasurable for making all of this possible. This fan and alum is grateful. Thank you so very much. Now let's go out there and start collecting some titles! Go Valpo!
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Isn't spring break 2-weeks? So it stands to reason that every year this occurs . . . I'd say that I am glad that Evansville is the game where that happens. At least the bigger games (pre-season top teams) are not impacted.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Isn't spring break 2-weeks? So it stands to reason that every year this occurs . . . I'd say that I am glad that Evansville is the game where that happens. At least the bigger games (pre-season top teams) are not impacted.
Eville is going to be in for a rough season. By comparing the rosters you'd expect that we'd go 2-0 this year but you never know in CBB. We'll win some games that on paper we probably should lose and we'll lose a game or two to an opponent we have no business losing to (ex: UC-Riverside last season and Santa Clara @ home the season before).
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Isn't spring break 2-weeks? So it stands to reason that every year this occurs . . . I'd say that I am glad that Evansville is the game where that happens. At least the bigger games (pre-season top teams) are not impacted.
I believe that in two years the university is shifting its academic calendar and spring break will be shortened to one week. Also, the school will finally get Labor Day off.
Quote from: Pgmado on September 05, 2018, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Isn't spring break 2-weeks? So it stands to reason that every year this occurs . . . I'd say that I am glad that Evansville is the game where that happens. At least the bigger games (pre-season top teams) are not impacted.
I believe that in two years the university is shifting its academic calendar and spring break will be shortened to one week. Also, the school will finally get Labor Day off.
Keep up the podcasts Paul! I happen to agree with your position on scheduling :thumbsup:
Quote from: Pgmado on September 05, 2018, 12:00:05 PMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 11:35:49 AMQuote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 10:48:19 AMQuote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PMValpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Isn't spring break 2-weeks? So it stands to reason that every year this occurs . . . I'd say that I am glad that Evansville is the game where that happens. At least the bigger games (pre-season top teams) are not impacted.
I believe that in two years the university is shifting its academic calendar and spring break will be shortened to one week. Also, the school will finally get Labor Day off.
I wonder what's bringing about the shift in policy RE: Labor Day. I thought they kept students over Labor Day because of concerns about student retention. I hope they're waiting until all the dorms are updated before this change.
The shift is to create a semester schedule that's more in line with what other schools do. also, the labor day break is greatly needed as the push through to fall break can be really intense. I think other parts of the schedule shift include a guaranteed 3 week break between fall and spring and an earlier end in May.
As far as labor day with retention, there is now so much programming at the beginning of the year, and with students being so easily connected to family via phones and skyping it just doesn't loom so large as a 'make or break" weekend.
Honestly, these days with colleges the biggest challenge for retention is finances.
As far as scheduling goes the one thing that I would love to see happen are watch parties for our big away games. If we don't have the most exciting at home schedule it could be a good way to increase enthusiasm in a low stress way. Just make the Cafe be all Valpo Basketball All day those two days
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: Pgmado on September 05, 2018, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Isn't spring break 2-weeks? So it stands to reason that every year this occurs . . . I'd say that I am glad that Evansville is the game where that happens. At least the bigger games (pre-season top teams) are not impacted.
I believe that in two years the university is shifting its academic calendar and spring break will be shortened to one week. Also, the school will finally get Labor Day off.
Keep up the podcasts Paul! I happen to agree with your position on scheduling :thumbsup:
Yes, the recognition of Labor Day as a university holiday is a done deal. The shift to a one-week spring break is still being debated in Faculty Senate with good points made on both sides, though the apparent hope of the administration is to eventually find a way to make that change for the 2020-2021 school year.
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 03:09:44 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: Pgmado on September 05, 2018, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Isn't spring break 2-weeks? So it stands to reason that every year this occurs . . . I'd say that I am glad that Evansville is the game where that happens. At least the bigger games (pre-season top teams) are not impacted.
I believe that in two years the university is shifting its academic calendar and spring break will be shortened to one week. Also, the school will finally get Labor Day off.
Keep up the podcasts Paul! I happen to agree with your position on scheduling :thumbsup:
Yes, the recognition of Labor Day as a university holiday is a done deal. The shift to a one-week spring break is still being debated in Faculty Senate with good points made on both sides, though the apparent hope of the administration is to eventually find a way to make that change for the 2020-2021 school year.
Considering that the other 9 universities in the MVC all have 1-week Spring Breaks, and considering that IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, Butler and other schools in Indiana all have 1-week Spring Breaks, I'm curious. What exactly were the "good points" on the side of a 2-week Spring Break that everyone else in the universe is missing?
Quote from: wh on September 05, 2018, 07:53:17 PM
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 03:09:44 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 12:07:04 PM
Quote from: Pgmado on September 05, 2018, 12:00:05 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 05, 2018, 11:35:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 04, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Valpo hosts Evansville home game on Saturday, March 2 -is that on Spring Break? I hope not.
Unfortunately, the Evansville game is during Spring Break.
Isn't spring break 2-weeks? So it stands to reason that every year this occurs . . . I'd say that I am glad that Evansville is the game where that happens. At least the bigger games (pre-season top teams) are not impacted.
I believe that in two years the university is shifting its academic calendar and spring break will be shortened to one week. Also, the school will finally get Labor Day off.
Keep up the podcasts Paul! I happen to agree with your position on scheduling :thumbsup:
Yes, the recognition of Labor Day as a university holiday is a done deal. The shift to a one-week spring break is still being debated in Faculty Senate with good points made on both sides, though the apparent hope of the administration is to eventually find a way to make that change for the 2020-2021 school year.
Considering that the other 9 universities in the MVC all have 1-week Spring Breaks, and considering that IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, Butler and other schools in Indiana all have 1-week Spring Breaks, I'm curious. What exactly were the "good points" on the side of a 2-week Spring Break that everyone else in the universe is missing?
One main problem is that many Valpo students from various university departments or organizations participate in multiple long-distance (national and international) spring semester service trips each year that provide educational, social, charitable, or cultural benefits, which would be hindered by a one-week break. I believe a compromise solution that somehow would accommodate these projects is being sought.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1037524591172825088
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 08:34:23 PMOne main problem is that many Valpo students from various university departments or organizations participate in multiple long-distance (national and international) spring semester service trips each year that provide educational, social, charitable, or cultural benefits, which would be hindered by a one-week break. I believe a compromise solution that somehow would accommodate these projects is being sought.
Organizations such as the choirs, band and orchestra normally go on tours during that time.
Quote from: FWalum on September 05, 2018, 10:55:01 PM
Quote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 08:34:23 PMOne main problem is that many Valpo students from various university departments or organizations participate in multiple long-distance (national and international) spring semester service trips each year that provide educational, social, charitable, or cultural benefits, which would be hindered by a one-week break. I believe a compromise solution that somehow would accommodate these projects is being sought.
Organizations such as the choirs, band and orchestra normally go on tours during that time.
It took God 6 days to create the universe. I think the student groups can get whatever they need to get done in 7 days (9 days if you count the weekend) ;)
https://twitter.com/ValpoAD/status/1037549115415187456
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2018, 11:13:11 PM
https://twitter.com/ValpoAD/status/1037549115415187456
Again, we know it's hard and we sympathize; but that doean't explain or excuse a bad home slate. Why were Illinois State and SIU successful where we came up short? Why is UNI generally able to put together strong home schedules? Even Indiana State has WKU Wright State and North Texas coming to Terre Haute this year and just two years ago had a game against Butler? MVC-hopeful Murray State regularly gets Middle Tennessee and last year they got Auburn to come to Murray coming off two consecutive down years. What are they doing that we aren't? What do they have that we don't? And before you bring up the ARC, remember that Creighton Nevada and Rhode Island all offered to play a Home and Home with St. Mary's whose gym is older and not as nice as the ARC in my opinion.
Saint Mary's had a projected top 25 team with ncaa tournament wins in 4 of the previous 8 years. That's why they fielded offers from Creighton, Nevada, & Rhode Island.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2018, 11:07:24 PMQuote from: FWalum on September 05, 2018, 10:55:01 PMQuote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 08:34:23 PMOne main problem is that many Valpo students from various university departments or organizations participate in multiple long-distance (national and international) spring semester service trips each year that provide educational, social, charitable, or cultural benefits, which would be hindered by a one-week break. I believe a compromise solution that somehow would accommodate these projects is being sought.
Organizations such as the choirs, band and orchestra normally go on tours during that time.
It took God 6 days to create the universe. I think the student groups can get whatever they need to get done in 7 days (9 days if you count the weekend) ;)
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2018, 11:07:24 PMQuote from: FWalum on September 05, 2018, 10:55:01 PMQuote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 08:34:23 PMOne main problem is that many Valpo students from various university departments or organizations participate in multiple long-distance (national and international) spring semester service trips each year that provide educational, social, charitable, or cultural benefits, which would be hindered by a one-week break. I believe a compromise solution that somehow would accommodate these projects is being sought.
Organizations such as the choirs, band and orchestra normally go on tours during that time.
It took God 6 days to create the universe. I think the student groups can get whatever they need to get done in 7 days (9 days if you count the weekend) ;)
I absolutely agree. The two week break is too long and honestly, in my opinion, creates a disservice to the students. 14 days is so long to go without being in classes and then when they return they are coming back in the middle of the semester. It can be almost a shock to the system and can mess with their ability to get moving again. I'm sure it will make some break logistics harder, especially for the trips that are farther away like Israel, Thailand and China, but they are still doable.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2018, 11:13:11 PM
https://twitter.com/ValpoAD/status/1037549115415187456
Hey Law School people...Hypothetical question for you..
Lets say Maryland would have said no to Loyola. If Loyola asked every power conference school to schedule them and every team said no, would they have a case that the P5 are colluding to keep them out of the tournament and the financial gains associated with the tournament?
Will we ever see Mid-Major teams or conference file a lawsuit against the NCAA or P5 conference for collusion? Would they have a case? Thoughts?
They may have a case but that is the surest way to ensure one of two things happen:
1. The NCAA digs in and sides with the P5 even more making the climate for mids even tougher or
2. The Football 5 and possibly the Big East taking their ball and going home and starting their own league
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 06, 2018, 08:15:57 AM
They may have a case but that is the surest way to ensure one of two things happen:
1. The NCAA digs in and sides with the P5 even more making the climate for mids even tougher or
2. The Football 5 and possibly the Big East taking their ball and going home and starting their own league
By going to 20 game conference slates are they are basically already doing that. 20 games plus a couple tournaments and a few conference challenge games and teams habe a full schedule. They are almost to the point they don't even need buy games anymore.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on September 06, 2018, 08:47:03 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 06, 2018, 08:15:57 AM
They may have a case but that is the surest way to ensure one of two things happen:
1. The NCAA digs in and sides with the P5 even more making the climate for mids even tougher or
2. The Football 5 and possibly the Big East taking their ball and going home and starting their own league
By going to 20 game conference slates are they are basically already doing that. 20 games plus a couple tournaments and a few conference challenge games and teams habe a full schedule. They are almost to the point they don't even need buy games anymore.
Good point. Just thinking it through, if these tournaments keep doing neutral site for 1 to 2 games and than guaranteed home games for the P5 teams in the tournament then the need for buy games is eliminated except for exhibition.
It seems like these neutral site tournaments are guaranteed 3 games (minimum) anymore and sometimes 4. If you get into two of these neutral site tournaments a season then 8/12th of your schedule is already filled out. Here is the difference though, I think schools are still paying these neutral site tournaments to scheduled / host games so the budget still takes a hit. So I suppose that if state schools are in any budget crunches it really doesn't solve that problem.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on September 06, 2018, 08:08:21 AM
Hey Law School people...Hypothetical question for you..
Lets say Maryland would have said no to Loyola. If Loyola asked every power conference school to schedule them and every team said no, would they have a case that the P5 are colluding to keep them out of the tournament and the financial gains associated with the tournament?
Will we ever see Mid-Major teams or conference file a lawsuit against the NCAA or P5 conference for collusion? Would they have a case? Thoughts?
I don't know how much of a case they'd have, nor do I think the NCAA or any organization wants to get involved in regulating scheduling for teams to essentially force them into scheduling teams that don't benefit the bottom line of building a tournament resume.
I would keep rooting for the committee to adopt as close to a predictive analytical approach as possible for the tourney and its selection. That way scheduling just doesn't matter, and short of regulating scheduling is the most "fair" way to do it. However, I think if you look on past tournaments, the number of bids for mid-majors under that approach wouldn't be vastly different than what it has been under the old methodology.
How does playing a top mid major hurt a team's overall resume? That doesn't make any sense.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 06, 2018, 10:04:30 AM
How does playing a top mid major hurt a team's overall resume? That doesn't make any sense.
If you are referencing our scheduling woes for attracting P5 home-and-homes, we are not a top mid-major presently imo. Have not been since Alec's junior year.
I think there has been A LOT of shuffling of rules and metrics these last years in the college mbb landscape. Let's let the dust settle and give the P6 (and ourselves) time to digest all these changes and see where it goes.
One thing is for certain, in this uncertainty the P6 are being ultra conservative in their scheduling until they see clear cut advantages to scheduling mid to top tier mid majors. Also consider that Loyola wasn't even a mid level mid major until this last year. And with schedules being set more than 1-year in the future for many OOC games I don't think its even remotely fair for Loyola to say WTF right now.
Let's have them win some games next year and see where their 2019/20 OOC schedule goes from there.
The theme for 2018/19 scheduling is LET THE DUST SETTLE.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 06, 2018, 10:24:08 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 06, 2018, 10:04:30 AM
How does playing a top mid major hurt a team's overall resume? That doesn't make any sense.
If you are referencing our scheduling woes for attracting P5 home-and-homes, we are not a top mid-major presently imo. Have not been since Alec's junior year.
I think there has been A LOT of shuffling of rules and metrics these last years in the college mbb landscape. Let's let the dust settle and give the P6 (and ourselves) time to digest all these changes and see where it goes.
One thing is for certain, in this uncertainty the P6 are being ultra conservative in their scheduling until they see clear cut advantages to scheduling mid to top tier mid majors. Also consider that Loyola wasn't even a mid level mid major until this last year. And with schedules being set more than 1-year in the future for many OOC games I don't think its even remotely fair for Loyola to say WTF right now.
Let's have them win some games next year and see where their 2019/20 OOC schedule goes from there.
The theme for 2018/19 scheduling is LET THE DUST SETTLE.
This is a good point. Moser calls Loyola "a Final Four Team". True, but they're also a program that has missed 32 of the last 33 NCAA tournaments. They aren't quite on Gonzaga's level yet.
Mid-major madness weighs in on Non-D1s
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2018/9/6/17807764/does-your-school-schedule-too-many-games-against-non-division-i-teams-chaminade-stephen-f-austin-d2
If FGCU and SFA are struggling to schedule to that degree then we really need to be scheduling them. Challenge yourself don't be afraid to take losses. How much better would a game against SFA during the Texas trip be for our schedule?
Let the "Big Boys" have their own tourney and the Mid-Majors their own. Also separate the polls and rankings by the Power Conferences and the Mid-Majors. It would create some interest not only by region but perhaps on a National basis. And of course it would create new and more exciting schedules for the M-M schools. Just a thought. Remember the days when, for many years, Evansville hosted the National Finals for Div. 2 at Roberts Stadium? In fact I remember one year when Valpo hosted the Mid-west or Great Lakes regional at Hillltop. I believe that Concordia (then called River Forest) of Illinois was in that field also.
It seems that mid-major conferences need to simply play themselves in challenges like the MVC-MWC challenge. The conferences then need to grade their schools so that the top schools from each conference then play each other. If MVC set that up with, say 3, fellow conferences such that, for example, Loyola would get games with schools like Belmont, Nevada, BYU, and St. Mary's, then its resume (if it wins) wouldn't be half bad. Of course, the crappy schools would get stuck playing three other crappy schools, but that's all that they would be able to schedule anyway. If the parties are contracted to do such things, then its more likely to happen. Sometimes you gotta pick battles that you can win.
Season ticket renewals are here.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1038114313519734785
Quote from: VUBBFan on September 07, 2018, 12:23:18 PM
Season ticket renewals are here.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1038114313519734785
How does the pricing compare to last year if you recall?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 07, 2018, 12:25:56 PMQuote from: VUBBFan on September 07, 2018, 12:23:18 PMSeason ticket renewals are here. https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1038114313519734785
How does the pricing compare to last year if you recall?
Bleachers $1 less, the others a few bucks less. So I guess you can say prices were reduced. lol
How does a prospective new season ticket holder go about purchasing tickets?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 07, 2018, 12:45:29 PM
How does a prospective new season ticket holder go about purchasing tickets?
It looks they haven't totally updated the site from last seasons info but it says to call the season ticket office. They have a young alums deal that allows you to buy season tickets at a reduced price.
Young Alums: http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/valpoathletics/54FB8991-F303-4A4F-A19D-307D5827FF54/2017-18_MBB_Season_Tix_Poster.pdf
Quote"Season tickets include all home games during the 2017-18 season and are on sale now. To purchase, contact the Valpo ticket office at 219-464-5233 or visit the ticket office (open Monday-Friday, 10a-4p), located in the main lobby of the ARC."
http://www.valpoathletics.com/tickets/mbasketball/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 07, 2018, 12:45:29 PMHow does a prospective new season ticket holder go about purchasing tickets?
You can contact the Valpo ticket office at 219-464-5233. Also go to valpoathletics.com/tickets The site is not updated for this year yet, but should be soon. If you have specific questions you can contact Erica Fedornock the Ticket Operations Manager 219-464-6113. She is very nice and helpful in answering any questions. When the website is updated I'm sure there will be some mini game packages
Quote from: VU2014 on September 07, 2018, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 07, 2018, 12:45:29 PM
How does a prospective new season ticket holder go about purchasing tickets?
It looks they haven't totally updated the site from last seasons info but it says to call the season ticket office. They have a young alums deal that allows you to buy season tickets at a reduced price.
Young Alums: http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/valpoathletics/54FB8991-F303-4A4F-A19D-307D5827FF54/2017-18_MBB_Season_Tix_Poster.pdf
Quote"Season tickets include all home games during the 2017-18 season and are on sale now. To purchase, contact the Valpo ticket office at 219-464-5233 or visit the ticket office (open Monday-Friday, 10a-4p), located in the main lobby of the ARC."
http://www.valpoathletics.com/tickets/mbasketball/
The "Young Alum" option does not appear on the season ticket form this year. It was previously listed as "Valpo Faculty/Staff/Young Alum" with a spot for graduation year. Now it's just "Faculty/Staff"
I'm going to call on Monday to confirm, but if this is no longer offered, I'm going to be pretty disappointed. Not so much for myself, but for the fact that the discount showed an effort to keep recent grads invested in Valpo Basketball, and the University for that matter.
Sent from my LG-US998 using Tapatalk
Quote from: VUBBFan on September 07, 2018, 01:11:51 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 07, 2018, 12:45:29 PMHow does a prospective new season ticket holder go about purchasing tickets?
You can contact the Valpo ticket office at 219-464-5233. Also go to valpoathletics.com/tickets The site is not updated for this year yet, but should be soon. If you have specific questions you can contact Erica Fedornock the Ticket Operations Manager 219-464-6113. She is very nice and helpful in answering any questions. When the website is updated I'm sure there will be some mini game packages
By following links, I found that 3 mini-game packs will be available and go on sale October 10th.
Let the "Big Boys" have their own tourney and the Mid-Majors their own. Also separate the polls and rankings by the Power Conferences and the Mid-Majors. It would create some interest not only by region but perhaps on a National basis. And of course it would create new and more exciting schedules for the M-M schools.
Isnt this what the NCAA tourney and the NIT/CBI? etc. kind of already are??? NCAA for the "big boys" (mostly) and the NIT for the mids (mostly)
Quote from: valpowbb1 on September 10, 2018, 05:14:02 AM
Let the "Big Boys" have their own tourney and the Mid-Majors their own. Also separate the polls and rankings by the Power Conferences and the Mid-Majors. It would create some interest not only by region but perhaps on a National basis. And of course it would create new and more exciting schedules for the M-M schools.
Isnt this what the NCAA tourney and the NIT/CBI? etc. kind of already are??? NCAA for the "big boys" (mostly) and the NIT for the mids (mostly)
Not really. Last year'a NIT had 16 of 32 from Power 5 with Penn State winning it all. In the NCAA tournament there were 30 teams from the Power 5. If you throw in the Big East then it goes to 35 of 65.
Quote from: vu72 on September 10, 2018, 08:28:59 AM
Quote from: valpowbb1 on September 10, 2018, 05:14:02 AM
Let the "Big Boys" have their own tourney and the Mid-Majors their own. Also separate the polls and rankings by the Power Conferences and the Mid-Majors. It would create some interest not only by region but perhaps on a National basis. And of course it would create new and more exciting schedules for the M-M schools.
Isnt this what the NCAA tourney and the NIT/CBI? etc. kind of already are??? NCAA for the "big boys" (mostly) and the NIT for the mids (mostly)
Not really. Last year'a NIT had 16 of 32 from Power 5 with Penn State winning it all. In the NCAA tournament there were 30 teams from the Power 5. If you throw in the Big East then it goes to 35 of 65.
The mid-majors still supply value to P5 because everyone loves Cinderella in the Tourney. everyone loves David vs Goliath. Let's not take that away. The interest in the CIT/CBI are almost non-existent for a reason. NIT can still draw some interest if the fan-base/players can get over not making the tourney. At the end of the day I'd rather make the NCAA Tournament and than win a NIT Tournament.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 10, 2018, 08:43:30 AM
Quote from: vu72 on September 10, 2018, 08:28:59 AM
Quote from: valpowbb1 on September 10, 2018, 05:14:02 AM
Let the "Big Boys" have their own tourney and the Mid-Majors their own. Also separate the polls and rankings by the Power Conferences and the Mid-Majors. It would create some interest not only by region but perhaps on a National basis. And of course it would create new and more exciting schedules for the M-M schools.
Isnt this what the NCAA tourney and the NIT/CBI? etc. kind of already are??? NCAA for the "big boys" (mostly) and the NIT for the mids (mostly)
Not really. Last year'a NIT had 16 of 32 from Power 5 with Penn State winning it all. In the NCAA tournament there were 30 teams from the Power 5. If you throw in the Big East then it goes to 35 of 65.
The mid-majors still supply value to P5 because everyone loves Cinderella in the Tourney. everyone loves David vs Goliath. Let's not take that away. The interest in the CIT/CBI are almost non-existent for a reason. NIT can still draw some interest if the fan-base/players can get over not making the tourney. At the end of the day I'd rather make the NCAA Tournament and than win a NIT Tournament.
Valpowbb1 - My guess is that you are speaking sincerely about what you feel would be best for Valpo basketball and similar programs, but I strongly disagree with the idea of separate tournaments. If this were done, at best it would look like D1A and D1AA in college football and could look more like D1 and D2 in college basketball today. Virtually all of the television, money and national attention would go to the highest level tournament. Teams from the highest conferences outside of the P5 and Big East (i.e. American Conference and A10, plus Gonzaga, etc.) would scramble to move up and you would be left with a lower tier that gets little national interest. The ripple effect would be a dramatic decrease in revenues, attendance and (perhaps most importantly) quality recruits. Do you think that great recent Valpo players, such as Ryan Broekhoff, Alec Peters, Keith Carter, etc., would have decided to play at Valpo if they did not have the opportunity to play in the highest level national tournament?
Quote from: VU2014 on September 07, 2018, 01:05:09 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 07, 2018, 12:45:29 PM
How does a prospective new season ticket holder go about purchasing tickets?
It looks they haven't totally updated the site from last seasons info but it says to call the season ticket office. They have a young alums deal that allows you to buy season tickets at a reduced price.
Young Alums: http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/valpoathletics/54FB8991-F303-4A4F-A19D-307D5827FF54/2017-18_MBB_Season_Tix_Poster.pdf
Quote"Season tickets include all home games during the 2017-18 season and are on sale now. To purchase, contact the Valpo ticket office at 219-464-5233 or visit the ticket office (open Monday-Friday, 10a-4p), located in the main lobby of the ARC."
http://www.valpoathletics.com/tickets/mbasketball/
I reached out through email and Erica responded quickly with a season ticket order form. :thumbsup:
Another view of mid-major scheduling from CBS Sports. Thoughts?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/)
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 14, 2018, 02:25:58 PM
Another view of mid-major scheduling from CBS Sports. Thoughts?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/)
I don't fault him for anything on this piece. In fact I have long been of the same mindset in thinking "deal with it". Unless the landscape of college basketball drastically changes (through P6 re-alignment, rules committees or the mid-majors making early season quality tournaments themselves) then we are just pissing into the wind.
I'd be very interested in a Cross Roads type of concept for pre-season top 3 teams from each conference. I am not all together too sure why this idea hasn't taken off with some 3rd party sports firm. Though, it's easy to throw out ideas . . . and I have not vetted the concept myself. But it's relatively easy for each conference commissioner to have a cocktail at an airport Hilton in June and submit their 3 candidates I'd suspect.
Just be glad it happened now and not on December 8th. Yikes.
https://twitter.com/GWTV/status/1039606857348919298
I was not trying to say there should be separate tourneys. All kids want the chance to play in the big one
Quote from: IrishDawg on September 14, 2018, 03:18:18 PM
Just be glad it happened now and not on December 8th. Yikes.
https://twitter.com/GWTV/status/1039606857348919298
Lest anyone think it fell completely out of the blue, they were performing maintenance on it in a lowered position.
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 14, 2018, 02:25:58 PM
Another view of mid-major scheduling from CBS Sports. Thoughts?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/)
Now this is the place in the column where some writers would spend the next 500 words explaining how unfair this is for Loyola-Chicago and schools like Loyola-Chicago. And, to be clear, on that point, I agree. Power-conference schools largely refusing to give mid-majors a level playing field makes getting an at-large bid from any conference other than the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12, SEC, Big East or American difficult bordering on impossible (for just about everybody except Gonzaga). For instance, last season, only three schools from outside of a top-seven league received at-large bids. The other 33 went to programs from either the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12, SEC, Big East or American.
So, yeah, I agree it's unfair.
But spending more than a few sentences on that is about as pointless as screaming about an elected official lying on Twitter everyday. You can call him on it. You can try to shame him. But, ultimately, it does not matter and nothing changes. Same thing with non-league scheduling. Mid-major coaches, and college basketball pundits, have spent years trying to shame power-conference coaches into scheduling home-and-home series with schools from smaller leagues. But it's never worked because, truth is, it's rarely in their best interest to schedule home-and-home series with schools from smaller leagues. Fans of power-conference schools are typically more enthusiastic about home-and-home series with other power-conference programs. So there's that. And then the other thing working against mid-majors is that it's much easier to get a game between a power-conference program and another power-conference program on relevant television than it is to get a game between a power-conference program and a mid-major program game on relevant television. For proof, consider that Loyola-Chicago's game with Nevada in November will air on ESPNews even though it's a matchup featuring one team that's coming off of a Final Four and another that's coming off of a Sweet 16 and will be ranked in everybody's preseason top-10. A game between any other team coming off of a Final Four, and any other preseason top-10 team, would be given a prime television spot. But Nevada vs. Loyola-Chicago gets ESPNews.Maybe the mid-majors should keep the cinderella teams out of the tournament and let the networks see how the ratings would fall for a year or two. Then they can renegotiate how many mid-majors get into the tournament. Are we sure this wouldn't work?
Maybe the mid-majors should keep the cinderella teams out of the tournament and let the networks see how the ratings would fall for a year or two. Then they can renegotiate how many mid-majors get into the tournament. Are we sure this wouldn't work?
Certainly no one can be for sure that would not work, but that is a dangerous play. If the ratings are unscathed then the P6 could make a solid point that there should be a Division 1A and 1AA . . . thereby causing the mid majors their largest possible damage.
I see far more disaster with that approach because no matter what happens, mid majors are parasitic to the Division 1A programs in small ways. TV and national media cover our programs because they foresee the next Goliath slayer for the NCAA tournament. I really think we need to accept the way things are and build a program that can compete for the slops.
Heroic stands seem to be uniquely human in nature. Why do we always want to buck natures "only the strong survive and thrive" concept. I don't really care what some think on this forum, my feet are firmly planted on the ground on this subject and I am thankful that our Division 1AA program has the platforms it has in todays age.
I can only speak for 2001 to present, but what was national coverage and awareness like back before 1995 for programs like Valpo? Are we not living in a golden age for college basketball at the Division 1AA level?
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 14, 2018, 02:25:58 PM
Another view of mid-major scheduling from CBS Sports. Thoughts?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/)
If you go to a dictionary and look up "pragmatism," you could probably envision this article listed as an outstanding example to illustrate the definition. He's right. Do what you have to do and don't expect any help, but take it if it happens.
And I still think that until all mid-majors adopt this philosophy, stop wasting time on trying for games they can't get and begin conspiring among themselves to ensure the best possible mm-mm OOC matchups possible, this mess will continue.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 15, 2018, 08:30:54 AM
If you go to a dictionary and look up "pragmatism," you could probably envision this article listed as an outstanding example to illustrate the definition. He's right. Do what you have to do and don't expect any help, but take it if it happens.
And I still think that until all mid-majors adopt this philosophy, stop wasting time on trying for games they can't get and begin conspiring among themselves to ensure the best possible mm-mm OOC matchups possible, this mess will continue.
Even if mid-major programs did this, the problem is that the power leagues still hold all the cards, and much like an NFL lockout, it's only a matter of time before schools break because a lot of the low-major league schools depend on the power league buy games to fund not just their own basketball team, but their entire athletic departments. As the article articulated, the Loyola/Nevada game is on ESPNNews. Unfortunately, the Big Ten/ACC challenge is going on at that time, so Michigan State-Louisville is on ESPN, Notre Dame-Illinois and Penn State-Virginia Tech games are on ESPN2 and ESPNU at the same time. You could easily make the argument that the Nevada-Loyola game at worst should be just behind a Michigan State-Louisville game, at least in terms of the skill of both teams on the court, but because the power leagues draw the eyeballs and ultimately the advertising dollars, networks would be acting against their own self interest and bottom line to feature a game with 2 of the premiere non-power league teams over conferences that consistently draw better ratings.
I completely understand why mid-major schools feel this way. It's not fair. But even colluding together to try and force power leagues to schedule home and homes would ultimately be a fruitless exercise, in my opinion, because of the lower tier schools that simply don't have the funds to survive without those buy games. That doesn't mean that mid-major leagues shouldn't still try to get together for non-conference games, but that can already be done now.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 15, 2018, 08:01:00 AM
Maybe the mid-majors should keep the cinderella teams out of the tournament and let the networks see how the ratings would fall for a year or two. Then they can renegotiate how many mid-majors get into the tournament. Are we sure this wouldn't work?
Certainly no one can be for sure that would not work, but that is a dangerous play. If the ratings are unscathed then the P6 could make a solid point that there should be a Division 1A and 1AA . . . thereby causing the mid majors their largest possible damage.
I see far more disaster with that approach because no matter what happens, mid majors are parasitic to the Division 1A programs in small ways. TV and national media cover our programs because they foresee the next Goliath slayer for the NCAA tournament. I really think we need to accept the way things are and build a program that can compete for the slops.
Heroic stands seem to be uniquely human in nature. Why do we always want to buck natures "only the strong survive and thrive" concept. I don't really care what some think on this forum, my feet are firmly planted on the ground on this subject and I am thankful that our Division 1AA program has the platforms it has in todays age.
I can only speak for 2001 to present, but what was national coverage and awareness like back before 1995 for programs like Valpo? Are we not living in a golden age for college basketball at the Division 1AA level?
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 15, 2018, 08:30:54 AM
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 14, 2018, 02:25:58 PM
Another view of mid-major scheduling from CBS Sports. Thoughts?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/)
If you go to a dictionary and look up "pragmatism," you could probably envision this article listed as an outstanding example to illustrate the definition. He's right. Do what you have to do and don't expect any help, but take it if it happens.
And I still think that until all mid-majors adopt this philosophy, stop wasting time on trying for games they can't get and begin conspiring among themselves to ensure the best possible mm-mm OOC matchups possible, this mess will continue.
Not the philosophy that drove westward expansion, put the first man on the moon, led to the birth of our country and oust the British, kept the federal government from splitting into North and South, won Trump his election--yes, thinking small was not in Trump's vocab--made this country great--AGAIN--(imagine patriotic music playing)
Okay, okay--but we just don't have to lie down for the majors and make it easy.
Quote from: bbtds on September 15, 2018, 12:05:48 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 15, 2018, 08:01:00 AM
Maybe the mid-majors should keep the cinderella teams out of the tournament and let the networks see how the ratings would fall for a year or two. Then they can renegotiate how many mid-majors get into the tournament. Are we sure this wouldn't work?
Certainly no one can be for sure that would not work, but that is a dangerous play. If the ratings are unscathed then the P6 could make a solid point that there should be a Division 1A and 1AA . . . thereby causing the mid majors their largest possible damage.
I see far more disaster with that approach because no matter what happens, mid majors are parasitic to the Division 1A programs in small ways. TV and national media cover our programs because they foresee the next Goliath slayer for the NCAA tournament. I really think we need to accept the way things are and build a program that can compete for the slops.
Heroic stands seem to be uniquely human in nature. Why do we always want to buck natures "only the strong survive and thrive" concept. I don't really care what some think on this forum, my feet are firmly planted on the ground on this subject and I am thankful that our Division 1AA program has the platforms it has in todays age.
I can only speak for 2001 to present, but what was national coverage and awareness like back before 1995 for programs like Valpo? Are we not living in a golden age for college basketball at the Division 1AA level?
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 15, 2018, 08:30:54 AM
Quote from: EddieCabot on September 14, 2018, 02:25:58 PM
Another view of mid-major scheduling from CBS Sports. Thoughts?
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/mid-major-coaches-need-to-stop-complaining-and-start-adapting-to-college-basketball-realities/)
If you go to a dictionary and look up "pragmatism," you could probably envision this article listed as an outstanding example to illustrate the definition. He's right. Do what you have to do and don't expect any help, but take it if it happens.
And I still think that until all mid-majors adopt this philosophy, stop wasting time on trying for games they can't get and begin conspiring among themselves to ensure the best possible mm-mm OOC matchups possible, this mess will continue.
Not the philosophy that drove westward expansion, put the first man on the moon, led to the birth of our country and oust the British, kept the federal government from splitting into North and South, won Trump his election--yes, thinking small was not in Trump's vocab--made this country great--AGAIN--(imagine patriotic music playing)
Okay, okay--but we just don't have to lie down for the majors and make it easy.
A Mid major team can make the leap (ie Butler) but not every school can be P6 nor every conference.
If the argument is for Valpo to strive, HELL YES. But if the argument is to bring the whole of the mid major conferences with.....stop lying to yourself.
Quote from: bbtds on September 15, 2018, 07:46:50 AM
Maybe the mid-majors should keep the cinderella teams out of the tournament and let the networks see how the ratings would fall for a year or two. Then they can renegotiate how many mid-majors get into the tournament. Are we sure this wouldn't work?
I think this would work.
According to this metric, Valpo has the strongest OOC schedule in the Valley this season.
https://twitter.com/Fieldof68Freak/status/1047228338958471168
Really???? What the......
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 02, 2018, 09:49:08 PM
Really???? What the......
It's undeniable that our away non-conference schedule is tough. The home OOC schedule... no so much.
What doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger ;).
To the collective Loyola, Missouri State and Bradley scheduling brain trust,
Thank you for doing your part to diminish the conference's at-large resume. Yeah I know, "Scheduling's hard."
Quote from: wh on October 03, 2018, 09:23:30 AM
To the collective Loyola, Missouri State and Bradley scheduling brain trust,
Thank you for doing your part to diminish the conference's at-large resume. Yeah I know, "Scheduling's hard."
Valpo needs to build its at-large resume through the non-conference schedule. It won't happen in league play other than maybe a game here or there. The good news is that more times than not MVC opponents also aren't going to be a "bad loss" unlike in the Horizon.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 03, 2018, 09:58:34 AM
Quote from: wh on October 03, 2018, 09:23:30 AM
To the collective Loyola, Missouri State and Bradley scheduling brain trust,
Thank you for doing your part to diminish the conference's at-large resume. Yeah I know, "Scheduling's hard."
Valpo needs to build its at-large resume through the non-conference schedule. It won't happen in league play other than maybe a game here or there. The good news is that more times than not MVC opponents also aren't going to be a "bad loss" unlike in the Horizon.
...and, according to the ranking above, Valpo has done exactly that. Unfortunately, as a MM, you can't build an at-large resume by yourself. Every MVC program needs to do it's part. Every SOS affects your SOS, every opponent win (or loss) and every opponent's opponent win (or loss) affects your RPI. Lousy OOC schedules by sister programs are lazy, self-serving, and detrimental to everyone.
Oh, I almost forgot - "Sheduling is hard, don't ya know?"
Mark Twain: "There are a thousand excuses for every failure, but no good reason."
Quote from: wh on October 03, 2018, 02:03:19 PM
...and, according to the ranking above, Valpo has done exactly that. Unfortunately, as a MM, you can't build an at-large resume by yourself. Every MVC program needs to do it's part. Every SOS affects your SOS, every opponent win (or loss) and every opponent's opponent win (or loss) affects your RPI. Lousy OOC schedules by sister programs are lazy, self-serving, and detrimental to everyone.
Oh, I almost forgot - "Sheduling is hard, don't ya know?"
Mark Twain: "There are a thousand excuses for every failure, but no good reason."
Yes you can. That's what Gonzaga does every year (even though they're really a major program in a mid-major league) because outside of BYU and St. Mary's being considered every couple of years, there's no one in the WCC that builds their resume. It's harder than ever, but programs in mid-major conferences absolutely have to make a go of it basically by themselves in the non-conference schedule to have a shot.
I don't disagree that schools should still be trying to schedule more difficult games rather than relying on the conference tournament for their NCAA bid. But optics such as a 20 win season are still important for some coaches to keep their jobs or in recruiting, and few coaches want to take risks if it means they could lose their jobs.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 03, 2018, 02:57:15 PM
Quote from: wh on October 03, 2018, 02:03:19 PM
...and, according to the ranking above, Valpo has done exactly that. Unfortunately, as a MM, you can't build an at-large resume by yourself. Every MVC program needs to do it's part. Every SOS affects your SOS, every opponent win (or loss) and every opponent's opponent win (or loss) affects your RPI. Lousy OOC schedules by sister programs are lazy, self-serving, and detrimental to everyone.
Oh, I almost forgot - "Sheduling is hard, don't ya know?"
Mark Twain: "There are a thousand excuses for every failure, but no good reason."
Yes you can. That's what Gonzaga does every year (even though they're really a major program in a mid-major league) because outside of BYU and St. Mary's being considered every couple of years, there's no one in the WCC that builds their resume. It's harder than ever, but programs in mid-major conferences absolutely have to make a go of it basically by themselves in the non-conference schedule to have a shot.
I don't disagree that schools should still be trying to schedule more difficult games rather than relying on the conference tournament for their NCAA bid. But optics such as a 20 win season are still important for some coaches to keep their jobs or in recruiting, and few coaches want to take risks if it means they could lose their jobs.
Well put, we often forget that coaches are mostly lip service when they say "tournament or bust" in most years. In the over whelming majority of schools (non P5), a good record is important to alumni and therefore longevity.
We often forget that many coaches want to win, but they also like not moving every 4-years!!! Many have family and uprooting the kids 4+ times during their childhood is tough.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 03, 2018, 03:02:27 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 03, 2018, 02:57:15 PM
Quote from: wh on October 03, 2018, 02:03:19 PM
...and, according to the ranking above, Valpo has done exactly that. Unfortunately, as a MM, you can't build an at-large resume by yourself. Every MVC program needs to do it's part. Every SOS affects your SOS, every opponent win (or loss) and every opponent's opponent win (or loss) affects your RPI. Lousy OOC schedules by sister programs are lazy, self-serving, and detrimental to everyone.
Oh, I almost forgot - "Sheduling is hard, don't ya know?"
Mark Twain: "There are a thousand excuses for every failure, but no good reason."
Yes you can. That's what Gonzaga does every year (even though they're really a major program in a mid-major league) because outside of BYU and St. Mary's being considered every couple of years, there's no one in the WCC that builds their resume. It's harder than ever, but programs in mid-major conferences absolutely have to make a go of it basically by themselves in the non-conference schedule to have a shot.
I don't disagree that schools should still be trying to schedule more difficult games rather than relying on the conference tournament for their NCAA bid. But optics such as a 20 win season are still important for some coaches to keep their jobs or in recruiting, and few coaches want to take risks if it means they could lose their jobs.
Well put, we often forget that coaches are mostly lip service when they say "tournament or bust" in most years. In the over whelming majority of schools (non P5), a good record is important to alumni and therefore longevity.
We often forget that many coaches want to win, but they also like not moving every 4-years!!! Many have family and uprooting the kids 4+ times during their childhood is tough.
That's why you look skeptically at coaches comments about how hard scheduling is. That's why you wonder whether that's the real reason good mid majors can't ever seem to get together for home-and-homes. That's why you don't leave coaches to their own devices when it comes to OOC scheduling.
The MM benchmark for effective, conference-wide OOC scheduling is the A-10. Following are OOC scheduling rules that A-10 programs must follow:
https://www.vcuramnation.com/forums/threads/a10-basketball-scheduling-requirements-visiting-ticket-allotment.11783/
Note: This is from 4 years ago.
Loyola tried like hell to put together a strong schedule but ONLY 1 P5 agreed to play them. You need to read the CBS article that talked about it.
Listen at 29:10: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-podcast-a-discussion-on-rick-pitinos-book-and-loyola-chicagos-scheduling-difficulties/
We have also experienced scheduling problems when we have rosters with a heavier amount of upperclassmen. It's no mistake that Purdue and Northwestern decided to play us in rebuilds years. I guarantee you if we had the same year as Loyola, we wouldn't be getting Texas Tech on the schedule. Bob Huggins is old school so maybe he'd give us the opportunity against WVU, but that's a big maybe.
No excuse for MSU. Might be the fact that their new HC doesn't want to play tough competition in his first season. He's on his honeymoon phase.
I've been pounding the table for scheduling standards in the MVC, but Coaches don't typically want it because they want the flexibility to schedule for how good they expect to be from season-to-season. The bottom needs to do everything possible to set up the top teams resumes. Marty Simmons leaving eville is a win from a MVC scheduling perspective. Dan Muller at ISUr has stepped up his scheduling the last few seasons. Hinson has somewhat improved as well.
Agree with the author of the article. Take the situation as you find it, not as you would like it.
Take any 2 for 1 and take money in buy games. It's just reality.
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 03, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Agree with the author of the article. Take the situation as you find it, not as you would like it.
Take any 2 for 1 and take money in buy games. It's just reality.
I disagree on taking any 2 for 1. It has to be the right team and the right timing for it to make sense for a 2 for 1. It's just sad that it's come to this in college basketball. The system is rigged against even deserving mid-majors from having a chance to earn a at-large bid.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 03, 2018, 06:13:49 PM
Loyola tried like hell to put together a strong schedule but ONLY 1 P5 agreed to play them. You need to read the CBS article that talked about it.
Listen at 29:10: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-podcast-a-discussion-on-rick-pitinos-book-and-loyola-chicagos-scheduling-difficulties/
We have also experienced scheduling problems when we have rosters with a heavier amount of upperclassmen. It's no mistake that Purdue and Northwestern decided to play us in rebuilds years. I guarantee you if we had the same year as Loyola, we wouldn't be getting Texas Tech on the schedule. Bob Huggins is old school so maybe he'd give us the opportunity against WVU, but that's a big maybe.
No excuse for MSU. Might be the fact that their new HC doesn't want to play tough competition in his first season. He's on his honeymoon phase.
I've been pounding the table for scheduling standards in the MVC, but Coaches don't typically want it because they want the flexibility to schedule for how good they expect to be from season-to-season. The bottom needs to do everything possible to set up the top teams resumes. Marty Simmons leaving eville is a win from a MVC scheduling perspective. Dan Muller at ISUr has stepped up his scheduling the last few seasons. Hinson has somewhat improved as well.
What's odd to me is that Loyola wound up in the Ft. Myers Tip-off, a tourney with Richmond, Boston College and Wyoming, and this was announced in July. Organizers are the ones who put these fields together and have nothing to do with the coaches themselves, so am I to believe that this was the best non-conference tournament they could get into when Northern Iowa was in the Battle for Atlantis this past season and Valpo's in a significantly better field at Myrtle Beach?
It's not surprising at all that Power Programs aren't jumping at the chance to play Loyola, especially in a home and home environment. Here are the P5 programs that visited these respective mid-major programs the year after their Final 4 runs.
George Mason - Mississippi State (this was part of a home and home that started the previous season)
Butler - Stanford (Also had a home and home start with Louisville that season)
VCU - None (Had a home and home start with Alabama and their former coach Anthony Grant which was agreed to when he left VCU)
Wichita State - Tennessee (this was part of a home and home that started the previous season)
3 of these schools (excludes George Mason) had established themselves as really good programs by the time they went to the final 4, and teams weren't beating down their door to play at their gym. Loyola hadn't made a tournament in 33 years and expects to be treated better? It takes time and consistent success for scheduling to get worked out for mid-major programs. I'm not saying it's fair (it's clearly not), but things aren't going to change overnight for Loyola (or any program for that matter) when it comes to scheduling.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24886323/nick-saban-sounds-alabama-students-not-showing-louisiana-lafayette-game (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24886323/nick-saban-sounds-alabama-students-not-showing-louisiana-lafayette-game)
Well gents, here's arguably the best college football program of the last 10-years seeing poor student attendance......
For me, this is the new "norm" due to many circumstances. But here we be!
Quote from: VU2014 on October 03, 2018, 07:36:23 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 03, 2018, 07:14:21 PM
Agree with the author of the article. Take the situation as you find it, not as you would like it.
Take any 2 for 1 and take money in buy games. It's just reality.
I disagree on taking any 2 for 1. It has to be the right team and the right timing for it to make sense for a 2 for 1. It's just sad that it's come to this in college basketball. The system is rigged against even deserving mid-majors from having a chance to earn a at-large bid.
I'm only 10'ish years older than you VU2014, but you'll get it. The real world will creep in and slow your crusade for "right and wrong". I'm not saying you cave after 10-years like me, but she's coming for you!!! 🤷🏻♂️
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 03, 2018, 08:23:34 PM
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24886323/nick-saban-sounds-alabama-students-not-showing-louisiana-lafayette-game (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24886323/nick-saban-sounds-alabama-students-not-showing-louisiana-lafayette-game)
Well gents, here's arguably the best college football program of the last 10-years seeing poor student attendance......
For me, this is the new "norm" due to many circumstances. But here we be!
It can't possibly be because nobody was interested in watching Louisiana Lafayette a 1-3 Sun Belt team that hasn't finished with a winning record since 2014... Nope this generation just hates sports... My favorite part of the article was when the long-snapper tried to shame his fellow students by using a post about student attendance for a primetime conference game with CFP implications to make his point.
Game times posted for a bunch of MVC Games....
Wed January 2, Illinois State HOME 7pm
Sat January 5, Missouri State AWAY 1pm
Tue January 8, Bradley HOME 7pm
Sat January 12, Southern Illinois AWAY 3pm MVC Network -- Possible AMTRAK Trip
Tue January 15, Loyola AWAY - TBA
Sat January 19, Northern Iowa - HOME 3pm MVC Network
Wed January 23, Indiana State - AWAY 6pm -- Weather Permitting
Sat January 26, Drake - HOME 7pm
Tue January 29 Missouri State - HOME 7pm
Sat February 2, Evansville, AWAY 1pm MVC Network -- DEFINITE ROAD TRIP
Tue February 5 Illinois State AWAY TBA
Sun February 10 Loyola HOME 3pm
Wed February 13 Indiana State HOME 7pm
Sat February 16 Drake AWAY TBA
Wed February 20 Southern Illinois HOME 7pm
Sat February 23 Northern Iowa AWAY - TBA
Web February 27 Bradley Away 7pm -- Weather Permitting
Sat March 2 Evansville HOME TBA
Quote from: talksalot on October 04, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
Sat February 2, Evansville, AWAY 1pm MVC Network -- DEFINITE ROAD TRIP
If not for a conflicting home Butler game, I would be making this trip also. I encourage Valpo fans to make this trip if they can. The Ford Center is a great place to watch a game and downtown Evansville has many food/entertainment options. Casino just a few minutes from the arena ... assume Todd might be playing a few hands of poker on Friday night.
Quote from: zvillehaze on October 04, 2018, 09:38:24 PM
Quote from: talksalot on October 04, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
Sat February 2, Evansville, AWAY 1pm MVC Network -- DEFINITE ROAD TRIP
If not for a conflicting home Butler game, I would be making this trip also. I encourage Valpo fans to make this trip if they can. The Ford Center is a great place to watch a game and downtown Evansville has many food/entertainment options. Casino just a few minutes from the arena ... assume Todd might be playing a few hands of poker on Friday night.
Another game I have marked on the calendar.
Quote from: zvillehaze on October 04, 2018, 09:38:24 PM
Quote from: talksalot on October 04, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
Sat February 2, Evansville, AWAY 1pm MVC Network -- DEFINITE ROAD TRIP
If not for a conflicting home Butler game, I would be making this trip also. I encourage Valpo fans to make this trip if they can. The Ford Center is a great place to watch a game and downtown Evansville has many food/entertainment options. Casino just a few minutes from the arena ... assume Todd might be playing a few hands of poker on Friday night.
I'll be making the 1.5 hour drive from Nashville and may also play a few hands! ;)
Thanks for the game times, T.L.!!
Quote from: talksalot on October 04, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
Game times posted for a bunch of MVC Games....
Wed January 2, Illinois State HOME 7pm
Sat January 5, Missouri State AWAY 1pm
Tue January 8, Bradley HOME 7pm
Sat January 12, Southern Illinois AWAY 3pm MVC Network -- Possible AMTRAK Trip
Tue January 15, Loyola AWAY - TBA
Sat January 19, Northern Iowa - HOME 3pm MVC Network
Wed January 23, Indiana State - AWAY 6pm -- Weather Permitting
Sat January 26, Drake - HOME 7pm
Tue January 29 Missouri State - HOME 7pm
Sat February 2, Evansville, AWAY 1pm MVC Network -- DEFINITE ROAD TRIP
Tue February 5 Illinois State AWAY TBA
Sun February 10 Loyola HOME 3pm
Wed February 13 Indiana State HOME 7pm
Sat February 16 Drake AWAY TBA
Wed February 20 Southern Illinois HOME 7pm
Sat February 23 Northern Iowa AWAY - TBA
Web February 27 Bradley Away 7pm -- Weather Permitting
Sat March 2 Evansville HOME TBA
NBC SportsNet Chicago just picked up the Valpo vs Loyola game on January 15th.
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball/status/1048228410990972928
Any exposure is good exposure. Absolutely love that Valpo will be featured on NBCS-Chicago so much.
Anyone know when we'll know the TV schedule for the Non-Conference portion of the schedule?
My apologies if this news got posted or got discussed elsewhere.
[Tweet]1049731911856328704[/Tweet]
Cool that it's at the ARC.
don't know what time this indoor sport occurs (since it's a secret)... but the Drake football team will be playing on Brown Field that afternoon...
Quote from: talksalot on October 11, 2018, 01:31:12 PM
don't know what time this indoor sport occurs (since it's a secret)... but the Drake football team will be playing on Brown Field that afternoon...
Sincerely, I think most of the fans at the football game will probably rather move inside to the "secret" basketball game after the first half.
Food for thought.
Enjoy 60 more days of summer in Myrtle Beach
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sponsor-story/visit-myrtle-beach/2018/08/20/5-reasons-get-myrtle-beach-fall/1040314002/?mvt=i&mvn=27f988ed4df84325b72159e9403eeab2&mvp=NA-USAT-11238597&mvl=AdUnit-%2F7103%2Fusatoday%2Fnative-front_tile%2F%2A+Fn-Branded+Content+%28Default%29+%5BDesktop+Front+Master+-+Branded+Content%5D
[also posted to the Myrtle Beach thread]
Quote from: ml2 on August 23, 2018, 09:12:33 AM
Agree that just getting into any early season tournament is not that difficult, however getting into an early season tournament that includes the opportunity to play a P5 team(s) on a neutral court is another matter entirely. That is very difficult for a mid-major and usually involves 1) building relationships with the people running the tournaments (often by playing in an inferior tournament they run first), 2) planning an additional year or two in advance relative to all other basketball scheduling and 3) a six figure entry fee payment - a major investment for programs without P5 money.
Quote from: ml2 on August 23, 2018, 03:04:38 PM
Relating specifically to the tournament, based on the article details, Nevada paid over $200k to "Las Vegas Tournamnt Inc." and got home games against Radford and UC Davis, and neutral site games against Southern Illinois and San Francisco. (the article breaks these payments out on a per game basis, but since the money is going to the tournament promoter and not the opposing school, it's really better to look at this collectively as payment for tournament participation, as opposed to individual "buy" games).
I know I'm late to the game, but must have missed this discussion the first time around. From these posts, is ml2 suggesting that Valpo is paying in excess of $100k to participate in the Myrtle Beach Invitational this year? Does anyone else think that seems like a lot of money, especially since a school like Valpo would normally BE PAID $90-$100k to play at WVU, which is part of the MTE. Just curious.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 22, 2018, 11:35:50 AM
The good news is that the neutral/road schedule should balance this out. The problem is that these games are going to be extremely difficult to win, especially the Texas A&M game, which Valpo's going to have to play 2 games in 48 hours, and have to fly from Indiana to Texas.
Western Kentucky - 47
West Virginia - 12
UNLV - 107
GW - 192
Texas A&M - 29
Texas A&M projected by KenPom to be a .500 team. Saw they just lost a closed scrimmage to Stephen F. Austin from the lowly Southland Conference.
Quote from: zvillehaze on October 25, 2018, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 22, 2018, 11:35:50 AM
The good news is that the neutral/road schedule should balance this out. The problem is that these games are going to be extremely difficult to win, especially the Texas A&M game, which Valpo's going to have to play 2 games in 48 hours, and have to fly from Indiana to Texas.
Western Kentucky - 47
West Virginia - 12
UNLV - 107
GW - 192
Texas A&M - 29
Texas A&M projected by KenPom to be a .500 team. Saw they just lost a closed scrimmage to Stephen F. Austin from the lowly Southland Conference.
Those ratings in my previous post was were they ended up last year. Them being a projected .500 team considering they're rated #48 speaks more to the difficulty of their schedule than the result against Stephen F. Austin, who is basically rated in the same spot in the preseason (#134) as Valpo (#131). Plus, yes, it's a scrimmage, but teams like Syracuse have lost to a Division II school and wound up not only making the NCAA tournament, but getting a 3 seed in it as well. Still going to be tough to turn around and win at their place considering they play an in-state rival in Ball State and once that game is over, the team has less than 48 hours before the start of the A&M game, regardless if they're down this year or not.
Very true. When we play non-D1's we are essentially their Superbowl and often times our games don't approach the game with the proper mindset (especially the vets). Remember that disastrous 1st half vs Trinity Christian two years ago? Nobody on our team got up for that game and they were winning in the first half and at half time coach had to light a fire under their @$$. That was embarrassing.
The guys need to show up against UIndy, PNW, and Concordia. I think the most dangerous Non-D1 game will be against UIndy. It's not a regular season game but UIndy is a good non-D1 program. We recruited one of their kids pretty hard this offseason, but ended up transferring to Loyola.
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/1056182593270542336
...1997-98... Bethel 85-Valpo 75...Result? Sweet 16.
Maybe that UNLV game is more winnable then some thought.
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/1061482509861576710
It's early but you can't help but be concerned by the number of losses piling up for future opponents and the lack of key wins by our conference mates so far. The pessimistic side of me says the MVC may only get one bid this year. The optimistic side thinks that maybe just maybe this is a sign that we're not as far off as we think we are and that this could be a good year for us.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 10, 2018, 11:56:44 PM
It's early but you can't help but be concerned by the number of losses piling up for future opponents and the lack of key wins by our conference mates so far. The pessimistic side of me says the MVC may only get one bid this year. The optimistic side thinks that maybe just maybe this is a sign that we're not as far off as we think we are and that this could be a good year for us.
Yeah this was a pretty bad day for the Valley. ISUr loses to Belmont and UNI lost as well. Also Loyola losing to Furman on buzzer beater dunk wasn't ideal. Two teams that had a shot at an at-large birth both losing key games. SIU held their own against Kentucky which is positive.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 11, 2018, 12:30:16 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 10, 2018, 11:56:44 PM
It's early but you can't help but be concerned by the number of losses piling up for future opponents and the lack of key wins by our conference mates so far. The pessimistic side of me says the MVC may only get one bid this year. The optimistic side thinks that maybe just maybe this is a sign that we're not as far off as we think we are and that this could be a good year for us.
Yeah this was a pretty bad day for the Valley. ISUr loses to Belmont and UNI lost as well. Also Loyola losing to Furman on buzzer beater dunk wasn't ideal. Two teams that had a shot at an at-large birth both losing key games. SIU held their own against Kentucky which is positive.
Classification of a bad day really just depends on your expectations for the league. If you look at Kenpom, Belmont was favored in their matchup against Illinois State. Really the only unexpected losses for the league would be UNI dropping their game against UT-Arlington and Loyola losing to Furman. Missouri State is playing better than anticipated, and everyone else is more or less holding serve so far. It's very early though, and while I think the MVC as currently constructed is a one-bid league most years, that doesn't make it any less exciting to see the teams grow and develop over the course of the season.
I have a hunch the Missouri State coach is the real deal and will improve them fast. Maybe not this year but soon.
Quote from: crusadermoe on November 11, 2018, 02:29:45 PM
I have a hunch the Missouri State coach is the real deal and will improve them fast. Maybe not this year but soon.
I'm not sure they'll be real contenders this season but in the future definitely. Dana Ford is an elite recruiter and he's already shown that in his short time there. The direction is certainly pointing up for them.
I feel the same way about them and Evansville. I think the Aces are going to be really good really soon.
Wow GW is BAD...
https://twitter.com/daily_cbb/status/1064269747016138752
So, looking at our D1 wins... Monmouth and SIUE... Here's a complete list of the opponent D1 victories:
...
I listed them alphabetically to ease your research.
UNLV is the highest rated team (#41) that we have left on our schedule.
They have wins over UC-Riv by 21, Oakland by 13, Pacific by 26 and Southern Utah by 5.
BTW, question... does the "NET" calculator use the rankings on the day you play the team? or is it based on "selection Sunday" ? (When we win at UNLV, for a Q1 victory, ... but if they fall during the season, does that take away a Q1 win?
Asking for a friend.
Quote from: talksalot on November 25, 2018, 09:55:49 AM
So, looking at our D1 wins... Monmouth and SIUE... Here's a complete list of the opponent D1 victories:
...
I listed them alphabetically to ease your research.
UNLV is the highest rated team (#41) that we have left on our schedule.
They have wins over UC-Riv by 21, Oakland by 13, Pacific by 26 and Southern Utah by 5.
BTW, question... does the "NET" calculator use the rankings on the day you play the team? or is it based on "selection Sunday" ? (When we win at UNLV, for a Q1 victory, ... but if they fall during the season, does that take away a Q1 win?
Asking for a friend.
Not sure what the #41 ranking represents, but UNLV is currently 132 at KenPom. That's 5 spots behind Wake Forest and about 20 ahead of Valpo. KenPom predicting UNLV by 5.
On your question, I believe all of the data used on the NCAA tournament selection "team sheet" is based on the end of season rankings. What looks like a Q1 win in December can slide to a Q2 by March, or vice versa.
the #41 is the "woefully innacurate" WarrenNolan RPI... which is not yet fully normalized (LMU is #5)
Quote from: crusader05 on September 06, 2018, 07:21:59 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 05, 2018, 11:07:24 PMQuote from: FWalum on September 05, 2018, 10:55:01 PMQuote from: valpopal on September 05, 2018, 08:34:23 PMOne main problem is that many Valpo students from various university departments or organizations participate in multiple long-distance (national and international) spring semester service trips each year that provide educational, social, charitable, or cultural benefits, which would be hindered by a one-week break. I believe a compromise solution that somehow would accommodate these projects is being sought.
Organizations such as the choirs, band and orchestra normally go on tours during that time.
It took God 6 days to create the universe. I think the student groups can get whatever they need to get done in 7 days (9 days if you count the weekend) ;)
I absolutely agree. The two week break is too long and honestly, in my opinion, creates a disservice to the students. 14 days is so long to go without being in classes and then when they return they are coming back in the middle of the semester. It can be almost a shock to the system and can mess with their ability to get moving again. I'm sure it will make some break logistics harder, especially for the trips that are farther away like Israel, Thailand and China, but they are still doable.
FYI: Just an update that the final decision has been made for VU to retain a two-week spring break in the future.