It's a Gold-Out on Sunday! A nationally televised game.
The 2nd place Redbirds will be riding a 4 game winning streak into the ARC Sunday afternoon. ISUr also might be a man down. Phil Fayne unfortunately rolled his ankle late in the game tonight. He had 24pts & 9 REB against VU a few weeks ago. With Fayne and Evans possibly out I think we can pull out the win at home against a shorthanded ISUr.
Only 3 more home games left! Let's make them count!
https://twitter.com/CoachRagsVU/status/961834662908739586
https://twitter.com/ValpoU/status/961707388926652416
ON GOLD DAY we need some take offs from GOLDER...aka "Flight Number Five".
Not much to lose at this point and we need crowd energy early .
So what if he misses a couple or draws foulds. We also need big payback to ISU for the ESPN posterizing of Mileek.
Can we claw back to 0.500 for the season? It would take either four wins in the remaining five games, with another loss in Arch Madness. Or three wins in remaining five games, then two wins in Arch Madness. With three home games and Drake on the road, anything is possible. We need to play well at home, on national TV. We need to rebound!
Valpo 74
Ill St 67
As a Saluki fan, I would certainly appreciate you guys beating the Deadbirds (aka ISU Redbirds) to help us out a bit. They beat us in overtime last night at Normal to tie us. Our depleted team roster---4 of our guys played over 40 minutes :( and one of our starters played 44 of the 45 minute contest. I'm afraid lack of numbers is going to do the Salukis in at St. Louis (3 games in three days)
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 09, 2018, 10:16:09 AM
ON GOLD DAY we need some take offs from GOLDER...aka "Flight Number Five".
Not much to lose at this point and we need crowd energy early .
So what if he misses a couple or draws foulds. We also need big payback to ISU for the ESPN posterizing of Mileek.
GOLDAIR!
Perhaps just a Splash of Gold-air? Shaken, not stirred.
I think we are good on "splashes"
Quote from: underdawg on February 09, 2018, 12:19:29 PMAs a Saluki fan, I would certainly appreciate you guys beating the Deadbirds (aka ISU Redbirds) to help us out a bit. They beat us in overtime last night at Normal to tie us. Our depleted team roster---4 of our guys played over 40 minutes :( and one of our starters played 44 of the 45 minute contest. I'm afraid lack of numbers is going to do the Salukis in at St. Louis (3 games in three days)
Assuming good health, your Salukis are going to be fantastic and fun to watch. I just hope Barry puts together a challenging enough schedule worthy of a team that I think could have at-large potential.
We need this one... Home crowd, depleted Redbird roster(I think they'll be without 2\3 of their big three) National TV. Fans and students need to show up here. This Redbird squad still has a ton of talent even despite the injuries, although much of it is raw. It won't be easy (no game in this conference ever is) but we can win this game. Go Valpo!
Illinois State 62
Valpo 57
Quote from: bbtds on February 09, 2018, 11:22:37 PM
Illinois State 62
Valpo 57
Walker/Smits/Sorolla will each pick up 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes of the game, yet Valpo will take a 30 to 27 lead into the half. Valpo will unfortunately fail to score in the first 8 minutes of the second half while Walker/Smits/Sorolla pick up their third foul. ISU will maintain a 6 point lead most of the second half based on a three to one free throw advantage when Valpo mounts a serious charge with a minute and a half to go. With a chance to tie with 45 seconds Valpo bricks a 3 from 30 ft. with 20 seconds on the shot clock. Forced to foul, ISU makes all their free throws while Valpo is called for charging each time they try to go to the rim making the final score ISU 62 Valpo 57. ISU goes 12 of 22 from the line while Valpo goes 4 of 7.
In the post game press conference, coach Lottich was asked about the foul called on Max when he was placed in a full Nelson by ISU walk on Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, then tossed into the third row of the empty student section. Coach Lottich responded that he must not have had a good viewing angle but if the foul happened as described he would certainly have given the referee a stern look. Coach lamented the lack of student support observing that a few students might have cushioned Max's landing and preventing the compound fracture of his left arm. Coach observed that Max is a tough kid and hopes to be recovered enough to play in the MVC tournament.
Having said that, if somehow it doesn't go that way and Valpo pulls out a win, I will be one happy guy to say I got it all wrong.
Quote from: nkvu on February 10, 2018, 12:17:34 AM
Quote from: bbtds on February 09, 2018, 11:22:37 PM
Illinois State 62
Valpo 57
Walker/Smits/Sorolla will each pick up 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes of the game, yet Valpo will take a 30 to 27 lead into the half. Valpo will unfortunately fail to score in the first 8 minutes of the second half while Walker/Smits/Sorolla pick up their third foul. ISU will maintain a 6 point lead most of the second half based on a three to one free throw advantage when Valpo mounts a serious charge with a minute and a half to go. With a chance to tie with 45 seconds Valpo bricks a 3 from 30 ft. with 20 seconds on the shot clock. Forced to foul, ISU makes all their free throws while Valpo is called for charging each time they try to go to the rim making the final score ISU 62 Valpo 57. ISU goes 16 of 22 from the line while Valpo goes 4 of 7.
Having said that, if somehow it doesn't go that way and Valpo pulls out a win, I will be one happy guy to say I got it all wrong.
Correction: ISU goes
16 12 of 22 from the line while Valpo goes 4 of 7. (Subtracting FTs the score would be ISU 50 Valpo 53, which is closer to what has happened in previous games)
This season has sapped most of the optimism out of me.
<2200 attendance
<30 non band students at the game. Most sitting
53-61 L.
Quote from: nkvu on February 10, 2018, 12:17:34 AMIn the post game press conference, coach Lottich was asked about the foul called on Max when he was placed in a full Nelson by ISU walk on Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, then tossed into the third row of the empty student section. Coach Lottich responded that he must not have had a good viewing angle but if the foul happened as described he would certainly have given the referee a stern look.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: M on February 09, 2018, 07:19:12 PMI think we are good on "splashes"
Still open for Suggestions... one anonymous source suggested:
"Your Name Here" 3-pointer... or "This Space Available" 3-pointer...
I COULD just say "For 3"...
Aside from the those fans and students who have to give their dogs a bath, let's rock and roll with the rest of them! Go crowd!
Another student observation from our last home game. Only 8 of the 28 stood and applauded as our players were being introduced. The other 20 sat on their hands expressionless. I have never seen anything like it in the past 25 years.
Quote from: wh on February 10, 2018, 09:11:08 PM
Another student observation from our last home game. Only 8 of the 28 stood and applauded as our players were being introduced. The other 20 sat on their hands expressionless. I have never seen anything like it in the past 25 years.
The student section leader said it on Paul's podcast. They don't know what to do. The next generation was never taught the cheers or anything. I think even the students know how sad the student section has become and it has become "uncool" to sit in the student section because it's so unorganized. From what we've heard there are students sitting in other sections. This student section needs leadership, organization and a shot in the arm.
I'm holding out hope for a solid student turnout tomorrow. They have some great student perks tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/ValparaiZone/status/962524211645440000
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/962469990074081281
Quote from: wh on February 10, 2018, 09:11:08 PM
Another student observation from our last home game. Only 8 of the 28 stood and applauded as our players were being introduced. The other 20 sat on their hands expressionless. I have never seen anything like it in the past 25 years.
Here is a reminder of what the student section should look like:
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2rop7k1.jpg)
No reason why we shouldn't win today. 2 of ISU's top 3 out. Need to not turn the ball over today and need to force the ball inside. Really hope we don't go forcing up 3s like it seems like we do when we start to feel pressure from the opponents. I'd be nice to see one of our 7 footers get to 7 rebounds for once as well.
34 students. 21% improvement.
The chatter on this thread is low today - are the students that are at the game doing the commenting?
McMillan starts the game and gets 2 fouls and a turnover in his one minute. Kiser starts second half and 14 seconds in has a foul.
We are rebounding well and currently have a 10 point lead!
I am one happy guy to say I got it all wrong!
Nice win. Hit a few threes, a few free throws, cut down on fouls.
Smaller lineup for most of the game worked tonight.
Quote from: wh on February 11, 2018, 02:57:36 PM
34 students. 21% improvement.
A pretty good crowd overall. The students? What a JOKE!! As for the game, perhaps we have found the best five to play together. Kiser, what an effort. :clap: :clap: :clap:
TWO BIG THINGS TO CELEBRATE!!
Congratulations to the team!!!! Great effort. The guards and Golder were tremendous. I loved the lob to Golder at the end.
Kudos to the local community fans!! The floor and the crowd looked great on television. That had to be a shot in the arm for the team.
EMBARRASSMENT TO ALUMNI...
I took some photos of TV screen of the student section. I live several hours away. I have given my last dime to the university until the student section stops embarrassing VU on TV.
The post before mine is frightening if the students "do not know what to do." At least stand or shout when your team is pulling away on a run for its first victory in a long time. It tells you that very few of the CURRENT university students has watched much college basketball in their lives. And it also says that of the ones who have, none has any leadership ability whatsoever. Different place than I attended and Greek Life is MUCH diferent. I will give them a break though because it is the day before Lincoln's birthday as TalksLot pointed out.
Max was the best player for Valpo today. Really pleased with his rebounding effort as well as taking good shots today. Was very frustrated with the team's first 10 minutes of the 2nd half when we could extend our leadatabase past 4. That said, glad to see we out played ISU in terms of physicality today. Just hoping we can not get completely blown out Wednesday.
Strong 2nd half. Great effort today. They cleaned up some things at halftime. You can slowly see this team making improvements.
I wish I could say the same thing about the student section. Absolutely brutal turnout. Basketball culture in the student body is completely broken. They should be supporting this team because they fight even if it's not always pretty. #1 priority this offseason is coming up with ideas to engage the students and make them feel like this is their team and establish an expectation that they should be in the stands supporting their team.
Progress. Now work on consistency. :cheers:
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 11, 2018, 05:12:50 PM
EMBARRASSMENT TO ALUMNI...
I took some photos of TV screen of the student section. I live several hours away. I have given my last dime to the university until the student section stops embarrassing VU on TV.
The post before mine is frightening if the students "do not know what to do." At least stand or shout when your team is pulling away on a run for its first victory in a long time. It tells you that very few of the CURRENT university students has watched much college basketball in their lives. And it also says that of the ones who have, none has any leadership ability whatsoever. Different place than I attended and Greek Life is MUCH diferent. I will give them a break though because it is the day before Lincoln's birthday as TalksLot pointed out.
Not everyone likes basketball. Stopping donating to the University because people many years younger than you aren't attending basketball games is a bit ridiculous.
That being said, nice win for Valpo, always great to get in the win column. I hope Evelyn keeps shooting like he did in the second half.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 10, 2018, 10:17:02 PM
Quote from: wh on February 10, 2018, 09:11:08 PM
Another student observation from our last home game. Only 8 of the 28 stood and applauded as our players were being introduced. The other 20 sat on their hands expressionless. I have never seen anything like it in the past 25 years.
The student section leader said it on Paul's podcast. They don't know what to do. The next generation was never taught the cheers or anything. I think even the students know how sad the student section has become and it has become "uncool" to sit in the student section because it's so unorganized. From what we've heard there are students sitting in other sections. This student section needs leadership, organization and a shot in the arm.
I'm holding out hope for a solid student turnout tomorrow. They have some great student perks tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/ValparaiZone/status/962524211645440000
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/962469990074081281
Good thing you said you were "holding out hope" rather than holding your breath! Just pathetic!
I was doing some work and missed the game. I went to the ESPN website and found that following "headline".
Valparaiso beats short-handed Valparaiso 74-58
It is good to hear that Valpo won despite beating themselves.
Anybody else notice that Marty wasn't dressed for the game? Too late to redshirt. Wonder if he is injured.
You're missing the biggest aspect of this: WE WON ON NATIONAL TV!!! Granted this Redbird team was severely shorthanded but here's what I saw:
Evelyn is getting better and gaining more confidence. He will be a force next year. He keyed the run to seal the win.
Ditto for Golder.
Smits and Sorolla are improving defensively and as rebounders.
Team rebounding was much better today.
Offense ran really well in the second half especially. Fewer turnovers in the final 30 minutes.
Kiser's effort was great as usual. He really got after some critical loose balls.
Seniors Walker and Joseph were both excellent and were instrumental in helping us weather the storm in the second half positioning us to make the big run at the end.
Great job by Coach Lottich today using back door cuts to get inside against the zone and for making sure VU wasn't afraid to attack the zone using our size advantage and taking advantage of the areas where Illinois State was shorthanded. Valpo's work inside set up those late threes.
Further kudos to Coach Lottich for recognizing when Golder's emotions were about to potentially get him in trouble and getting him out of the game to calm down. Failure to do so at that time might have resulted in a game-changing technical or silly foul.
This is the kind of game that makes me believe that Coach Lottich is right that we will be a tough team come Arch Madness. We look so much better than we did at the beginning of conference play. It won't be easy, nothing in the Valley ever is, but with our remaining schedule, I think 7-11 in MVC play, a finish at or above .500 overall, and finishing outside the cellar of the conference (maybe as high as 7th or 8th if Evansville and Indiana State cool off) are attainable goals right now. Go Valpo!
Great surprise when I went to the Valpo site. Didn't see the game. Going only by the box score. Our two 7 footers combined for exactly 3 rebounds (2 DRBs) in 35 minutes of play. Kiser (leading rebounder) alone had 9 DRBs in 30 minutes. That doesn't make sense to me unless they were boxing out to allow for our guards/fwds to come in and clean up.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 11, 2018, 06:45:43 PMDidn't see the game. Going only by the box score. Our two 7 footers combined for exactly 3 rebounds (2 DRBs) in 35 minutes of play. Kiser (leading rebounder) alone had 9 DRBs in 30 minutes. That doesn't make sense unless they were boxing out to allow for our guards/fwds to come in and clean up.
That is precisely what they did which is why I said they were improving as rebounders. Those box-outs weren't happening at the beginning of the year. Now they did today and we're getting rebounds. If you yourself aren't going to grab a rebound making it easier for your teammates to do so is just as good.
That was enjoyable. Great to see. Nice crowd despite the lousy student turnout. And I certainly hope that was an, ahem, "emphasis" alley oop at the end as payback for the posterization/taunting of Mileek at ISU. Seems like it was.
I found it interesting that on the local Chicago ABC tv station on the 5pm news "sports segment", the Valpo game today against ISU got about a minute of coverage with highlights/replays shown. That almost never happens. Was happy to see the coverage!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
How about the free throw comparisons?
THANKS VALPO--yours truly the Saluki fans ;) ;D
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 11, 2018, 06:19:04 PM
I was doing some work and missed the game. I went to the ESPN website and found that following "headline".
Valparaiso beats short-handed Valparaiso 74-58
It is good to hear that Valpo won despite beating themselves.
If the author wants to make a cry-baby "short-handed" reference, then the title should read:
Short-handed Valparaiso beats short-handed Illinois State. I can only imagine how lopsided the score would have been if Joe Burton were still playing. We also wouldn't be sitting at 4-10 right now. Spare me the shorthanded crap.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 11, 2018, 06:45:43 PM
Great surprise when I went to the Valpo site. Didn't see the game. Going only by the box score. Our two 7 footers combined for exactly 3 rebounds (2 DRBs) in 35 minutes of play. Kiser (leading rebounder) alone had 9 DRBs in 30 minutes. That doesn't make sense to me unless they were boxing out to allow for our guards/fwds to come in and clean up.
The bigs played a combined 21 minutes. In the presser Kiser said that Matt had him playing the five and he was crashing the boards, as were the other guys on the court. I suspect there is a lot of ice in use right now from both teams. Tevonn, while in a scrum for the ball, smashed one of their kids in the nose, then managed to somehow get the ball out to Bakari who then hit a 3. Bang/Bang play.(literally)
Yeah it was Bruninga. Hope he's okay. That team doesn't need any more injuries right now.
Quote from: M on February 11, 2018, 07:26:28 PM
How about the free throw comparisons?
For once we actually shot and made more free throws than our opponents. I think we had about 5 more made free throws. Not a huge difference. Absent that, we would have only won by what, 11?
I wonder if the fact that they were missing 2 of their top 3 players might have influenced this. One could speculate that we might have fouled these two guys more than we did the guys playing for them and the numbers would have evened out or gone in their favor.
http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-state/turnovers-doom-redbirds-in-loss-at-valpo/article_00005fc0-ca50-5a54-aab6-a64f676b520a.html
Quote from: vu72 on February 11, 2018, 07:48:49 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 11, 2018, 06:45:43 PM
Great surprise when I went to the Valpo site. Didn't see the game. Going only by the box score. Our two 7 footers combined for exactly 3 rebounds (2 DRBs) in 35 minutes of play. Kiser (leading rebounder) alone had 9 DRBs in 30 minutes. That doesn't make sense to me unless they were boxing out to allow for our guards/fwds to come in and clean up.
The bigs played a combined 21 minutes. In the presser Kiser said that Matt had him playing the five and he was crashing the boards, as were the other guys on the court. I suspect there is a lot of ice in use right now from both teams. Tevonn, while in a scrum for the ball, smashed one of their kids in the nose, then managed to somehow get the ball out to Bakari who then hit a 3. Bang/Bang play.(literally)
Could we like put Kiser on the rack and stretch him out to about 6'8" so he could play a more legit 4/5?
As we have seen since the loss of Burton, the team Valpo met today also displayed what happens when key players are out. In the first game Valpo played at Illinois State, the big differences were rebounds (Ill. St. led Valpo 44-29) and field goal percentage (Ill. St. led 48% to 38%). Fayne and Evans accounted for a whopping 41 pts. & 13 rebs. (Interestingly, Kiser led Valpo in rebounds during that game as well with 7 compared to today's 9.) Without Fayne and Evans the stats were reversed: Valpo led today in rebounds (36-32) and the field goal percentage went to Valpo as well (49%-38%), almost exactly the opposite of last time.
Strong second half propels Valparaiso
Paul Oren Times Correspondent
Feb 11, 2018
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/strong-second-half-propels-valparaiso/article_babfd0df-3e35-5b58-b1d0-4e395fae862c.html
'E' is for Evelyn — and effort: Valparaiso snaps Illinois State's win streak
Michael Osipoff
Post-Tribune
February 1, 2018
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-illinois-state-valparaiso-st-0212-20180211-story.html
Just want to make sure that this note from the broadcast doesn't get lost: It was said that the entire team spent an extra hour after practice getting up extra shots and putting in extra work. That kind of effort will pay off one day and that kind of effort deserves our attention love and respect. Win or lose I love this team because they fight hard and they care. Go Valpo! Our future is extremely bright!
Just wanted to note that the men's basketball team and the women's basketball team won their games today. How rare is it that both win on the same day? :clap:
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/962885942439743488
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB1AHXMsmYg&feature=youtu.be
Thought our zone offense adjustments were real nice. Good job coaches.
Also enjoyed the broadcast. They said a lot of nice things about Valpo both basketball and academically related.
Quote from: M on February 11, 2018, 09:12:55 PM
Thought our zone offense adjustments were real nice. Good job coaches.
Also enjoyed the broadcast. They said a lot of nice things about Valpo both basketball and academically related.
Agreed. Also credit to ESPN for taking some nice B-roll shots of the Chapel and campus. Well produced game.
This was priceless ;D
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/962924293918257152
We had a DFW viewing party for this game, and it was a fun one to pick. We even had a Hazen sighting, so that might mean he is being held out to gain his confidence, and not because of some other reason. I know that others bash Kiser, but I think that he is a good glue guy, and he is starting to hit some 3's, which will open others up. He reminds me of a less athletic Matt Kenney.
I just wish that we could shoot the 3 like that every game!
Not to take anything from the win, but it must be noted that Illinois State went absolutely cold in the second half. If they would have hit a few open shots, the outcome would have been different.
The forty+ Jackson Twp School choir members who sang the national anthem boosted the attendance considerably. By the second half, the middle section of the upper bleachers had thinned considerably as parents and grandparents took their children home.
Quote from: humbleopinion on February 12, 2018, 05:40:55 AM
Not to take anything from the win, but it must be noted that Illinois State went absolutely cold in the second half. If they would have hit a few open shots, the outcome would have been different.
The forty+ Jackson Twp School choir members who sang the national anthem boosted the attendance considerably. By the second half, the middle section of the upper bleachers had thinned considerably as parents and grandparents took their children home.
Sure glad that has never happened to us! ::)
I woke up today wondering if this team has a chance to finish the year .500 or above? I think most of us on the board would be happy with .500 considering.
It would mean winning our last 2 home games, losing our last 2 road games, and then winning 2 games @ Arch Madness. Or it would mean stealing a road win at Drake to end the regular season since I don't think we have a chance to beat Loyola.
Seems unlikely that we will reach the elusive .500 mark. But when you are having a rough season it is a good goal for down the stretch.
Quote from: valpotx on February 12, 2018, 02:20:14 AM
We had a DFW viewing party for this game, and it was a fun one to pick. We even had a Hazen sighting, so that might mean he is being held out to gain his confidence, and not because of some other reason. I know that others bash Kiser, but I think that he is a good glue guy, and he is starting to hit some 3's, which will open others up. He reminds me of a less athletic Matt Kenney.
I just wish that we could shoot the 3 like that every game!
It was cool seeing the crowd give a nice cheer for Parker. The community is behind him even if he's having a tough freshman season. As for Kiser he had a good game. I've been critical of his play this season. I agree he can be a good glue but key word is glue-guy. He needs play makers around him to make plays for him to shine and excel at doing the little things well. Bakari and Golder were making plays yesterday. Kiser needs to continue to evolve his game. If he could become a reliable 3 point shooter it could be a game changer.
Max Joseph also had a great game and did ton that didn't count in the box scores.
Although appreciated the focus on Valpo's hoop tradition, and the breakdown of The Shot ( https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2013/3/19/4119040/march-madness-valparaiso-ole-miss-buzzer-beater-history (https://www.sbnation.com/longform/2013/3/19/4119040/march-madness-valparaiso-ole-miss-buzzer-beater-history) ), ESPNu broadcast yesterday was a little annoying on the point about not having beat ISU since 1945. Seriously, and I understand it's Rivalry Week, but that is really scraping the bottom of the storyline barrel. Valpo has played ISU 11 times total in 80 plus years. They were 3-8 going into the game (with the earlier season loss). The teams hadn't played since 1980-81 season when Mo Smith was patrolling the lane and Johnny Mac was dribbling and dishing with perfect 1980 hair.
That was actually a pretty good schedule, ND, UNI, Bradley, Evansville, ISU (home and home, lost both), Marquette, South Florida, Loyola). Oh, and we beat Butler!!
Separate point, hope Bruninga is doing ok. Expected a little more discussion of Bruninga vs Hazen, especially after Bruninga hit a couple shots early.
Quote from: M on February 11, 2018, 07:26:28 PM
How about the free throw comparisons?
This is just my opinion and only an opinion.
I have got to believe that Paul's story about Valpo getting a much shorter end of the stick on FT attempts had to expose a point that the higher ups in the MVC weren't seeing. And whether it was consciously done or subconsciously done I believe the Oren story made a difference in the number of fouls called against Valpo and the number of fouls called on Illinois State.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 12, 2018, 12:57:25 PM
Separate point, hope Bruninga is doing ok. Expected a little more discussion of Bruninga vs Hazen, especially after Bruninga hit a couple shots early.
If Parker was playing more I'm sure it would be a topic of discussion. It's not even a question who had the much more productive freshman year. Parker is more athletic but Bruninga is a much more polished product and is a pretty good shooter. I'm not willing to say Hazen was a mistake but he needs to show a lot more next season.
Quote from: bbtds on February 12, 2018, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: M on February 11, 2018, 07:26:28 PM
How about the free throw comparisons?
This is just my opinion and only an opinion.
I have got to believe that Paul's story about Valpo getting a much shorter end of the stick on FT attempts had to expose a point that the higher ups in the MVC weren't seeing. And whether it was consciously done or subconsciously done I believe the Oren story made a difference in the number of fouls called against Valpo and the number of fouls called on Illinois State.
For nationally televised games you generally land pretty good refs. Correct me if I'm wrong but these weren't the regular MVC group of refs. A well officiated game yesterday.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 12, 2018, 12:57:25 PMExpected a little more discussion of Bruninga vs Hazen, especially after Bruninga hit a couple shots early.
Were ISU at full strength Bruninga would have seen little or no floor time. Bigger picture, he would be playing more minutes for us than he now is for them. Cutting it even closer to the bone, while I believe Mileek still has the larger upside Taylor is today the better freshman forward. Did Matt make a mistake? Time will tell.
Quote from: bbtds on February 12, 2018, 12:57:35 PMI have got to believe that Paul's story about Valpo getting a much shorter end of the stick on FT attempts had to expose a point that the higher ups in the MVC weren't seeing. And whether it was consciously done or subconsciously done I believe the Oren story made a difference in the number of fouls called against Valpo and the number of fouls called on Illinois State.
We played good, clean, hard nosed defense. Did we have any charges called against us from mindless dribble attacks into their zone? Also because ISU played a small lineup we countered with 5 guards. With McMillan, Sorolla and Smits seeing greatly reduced minutes our slow reacting, clumsy foul numbers plummeted. One other observation was that our screen sets were all planted and legit. (Well Kiser did get away with one :thumbsup:)
Quote from: valpotx on February 12, 2018, 02:20:14 AM
He reminds me of a less athletic Matt Kenney.
Kenney was an outstanding athlete - light years more athletic than Kiser. That was his whole game.
Other than being a white guy from central Indiana, not sure I get the comparison.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 12, 2018, 12:57:25 PM
Separate point, hope Bruninga is doing ok. Expected a little more discussion of Bruninga vs Hazen, especially after Bruninga hit a couple shots early.
Did not see it at the game despite being very close, watched it on the ESPN3 replay with 4:10 to go in the game and when Tevonn rips the ball free he nails Bruniga with a brutal elbow to the face at which point Bruniga flops backward from a sitting position on to the floor. Seriously doubt he can play in their next game unless he recovers quickly what definitely looked to be a concussion.
Bruniga and Hazen are completely different style of players. I think that Parker can shake off what has to be a disappointing season, but I believe he has the work ethic to do so.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 12, 2018, 01:06:47 PMCorrect me if I'm wrong but these weren't the regular MVC group of refs.
Mike Stuart (his second time in the ARC this year, last time he worked a Sunday game, he flew up after working the Notre Dame - Clemson Game, on his way to the Oklahoma-Kansas game.
Jerry Pollard - works all over the area, been at the ARC a few times in recent past, does a lot of B10 games.
Bo Boroski - Has been working games at the ARC for probably the past 20 years... worked his way up the ranks. His second game in the ARC this year... which was the first time we've had him at home for 2-3 years. He works a ton of Big National Games... But he "Grew Up" in the ranks with the AMCU and Mid-Con days...
I think you'll find its a combination of MVC PLUS National TV that gets the experienced crews.
Here's a link to Mike Stuarts pictures...
https://www.google.com/search?q=Mike+stuart+referee&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=iQfdZf3i94NfAM%253A%252CU01w5uMWlrNXDM%252C_&usg=__43es2gH-CsPr64GCtv3ZufWpPF8%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLw4f6o6HZAhUk9YMKHUThDAsQ9QEIKTAA#imgrc=iQfdZf3i94NfAM:
Here's a link to some of Bo's pictures and some happy coaches...
https://www.google.com/search?q=bo+boroski+referee&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=HlEiv7lZ8yl3nM%253A%252ChVEPlN2l6de_tM%252C_&usg=__E1JOjdriag1kbD57fPZ056p9ZT4%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjc59vPo6HZAhXn54MKHYQqCPcQ9QEIMTAB#imgrc=bHwhVIxDx2MHCM:
and Here's a link to Jerry Pollard's photos...(one of SIU coach Barry Hinson looking particularly happy)
https://www.google.com/search?q=gerry+pollard+referee&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=y-iItBZUgVXVXM%253A%252CE7S474AoAEMqMM%252C_&usg=__mK9ILs8Vd6YTVTfeoAzV3--cbdo%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-rLWOpKHZAhUl8IMKHSMSBh8Q9QEIMjAC#imgrc=y-iItBZUgVXVXM:
It appeared obvious that Matt was not going to let this one get away...it was nice to see uss close it out in a big way.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 12, 2018, 01:06:47 PM
Quote from: bbtds on February 12, 2018, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: M on February 11, 2018, 07:26:28 PM
How about the free throw comparisons?
This is just my opinion and only an opinion.
I have got to believe that Paul's story about Valpo getting a much shorter end of the stick on FT attempts had to expose a point that the higher ups in the MVC weren't seeing. And whether it was consciously done or subconsciously done I believe the Oren story made a difference in the number of fouls called against Valpo and the number of fouls called on Illinois State.
For nationally televised games you generally land pretty good refs. Correct me if I'm wrong but these weren't the regular MVC group of refs. A well officiated game yesterday.
Aside from that egregious lane violation call on Sorrola. The one IL St player kept leaving early and got called for it once. Then he did it again so the refs decided to give it to Sorolla, who was on the opposite side! The only explanation for that one was that he got the wrong number and meant Kiser, but even so, the other player took off and mowed right into the back of Kiser.
Generally the refs let everyone play. I thought Valpo was the more aggressive team and did a great job of driving and drawing contact, even if they didn't call it often. Being able to nail threes really helped Valpo; finally the other team couldn't play zone the entire game.
Quote from: Valpo89 on February 12, 2018, 02:39:45 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 12, 2018, 02:20:14 AM
He reminds me of a less athletic Matt Kenney.
Kenney was an outstanding athlete - light years more athletic than Kiser. That was his whole game.
Other than being a white guy from central Indiana, not sure I get the comparison.
It is pretty simple, in that you never really noticed Kenney throughout much of the game, except at select opportunities. This could be both good and bad, depending on the game. He was not one to make extremely dumb passes, similar to Kiser, and he did the blue collar work in getting rebounds and staying on his man while playing D. Look past the athleticism differences, and they are very similar...
Well, the 2nd most famous buzzer beater in school history doesn't happen without Kenney hitting a clutch, gotta-have-it three about 10 seconds earlier...
Quote from: valpotx on February 12, 2018, 05:22:39 PM
Quote from: Valpo89 on February 12, 2018, 02:39:45 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 12, 2018, 02:20:14 AM
He reminds me of a less athletic Matt Kenney.
Kenney was an outstanding athlete - light years more athletic than Kiser. That was his whole game.
Other than being a white guy from central Indiana, not sure I get the comparison.
It is pretty simple, in that you never really noticed Kenney throughout much of the game, except at select opportunities. This could be both good and bad, depending on the game. He was not one to make extremely dumb passes, similar to Kiser, and he did the blue collar work in getting rebounds and staying on his man while playing D. Look past the athleticism differences, and they are very similar...
Matt came in as a known, scouted, polished high school product. He could dribble well with either hand and had a nice looking shot release from anywhere he chose to shoot. On defense he could anticipate the lanes to be passed and the change of dribble directions. On the other hand John walked on with one Div 2 scholarship offer.
Is or was Matt the better athlete? Yes. Was Matt light years more athletic? Sorry but no.
The problem I have a hard time looking passed with Kiser is his lack of athleticism and size make him a liability with certain match ups. He's to slow to guard the 2 and against most 3s he can hold his own most of the time but we're forced to play him at 4 sometimes and he can be overmatched. He was good yesterday but I'm not a complete believer yet because is so limited offensively. He needs to develop a reliable 3 point jump shot this offseason and feel confident enough to pull the trigger to keep his defender honest. The Scouting report is out on him in this league.
It is a smaller sample size, but he is a better 3 point shooter than Tevonn currently, and Tevonn's jump shot looks very fluid. It doesn't have to be pretty, to be effective...
I'm more interested in how much better the team performed with Kiser in the lineup and Smits and Sorolla sitting on the bench.
Can the team be successful with Kiser playing as much as he did at the 4 or the 5....I say no. Given certain match ups and game situations yes, but overall we will need more size and athleticism at those positions to win on a regular basis.
Quote from: M on February 13, 2018, 08:46:23 AM
Can the team be successful with Kiser playing as much as he did at the 4 or the 5....I say no. Given certain match ups and game situations yes, but overall we will need more size and athleticism at those positions to win on a regular basis.
Sure, but we just don't have it right now. If, and it is a big if, a guy like Hazen can get his act together, or if McMillan can get his act together, then we could bring some size AND athleticism to the table. We aren't getting the athleticism from Derrik or J. The smaller guys in the Valley are much quicker and can also score. At 6'5" Kiser won't block shots but we aren't getting much of that from our bigs now. He knows how to box out and rebound and even makes an occasional 3. We also can play faster with him on the floor.
Rewatched the game and it felt eerie to see ISU switch places with VU. They are a more one dimensional scoring team with only Yarbrough on the court, similar to us with Tevonn getting the early double teams. Thankfully we have had time to get some growth in our support players, but I felt for ISU there.
If Burton was still on the team this semester I think we are still only .500 in this conference. But we do have a glaring weakness at the 4/5 positions against more athletic MVC teams. Hope Fazekas has the athleticism to guard...
How many of Kiser's 9 rebounds would Smits or Sorolla have snared? 1? 2? Dare I say 3?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 13, 2018, 09:10:55 AM
If Burton was still on the team this semester I think we are still only .500 in this conference. But we do have a glaring weakness at the 4/5 positions against more athletic MVC teams. Hope Fazekas has the athleticism to guard...
I'd be willing to say we'd be over .500 in conference play if he were still here. Burton could knock down 3s at a high clip and create his own shot so Tevonn could become a secondary scoring threat and with Bakari's emerging offensive game and Golder could be relied upon as the spark off the bench. Not to mention it would free up the paint more for Smits to operate.
But that doesn't matter anymore. We are working with what we have right now.
Quote from: justducky on February 12, 2018, 02:04:12 PM(Well Kiser did get away with one
....and why did he get away with it this game and would have been called on that foul almost any other game?
BTW, the officiating crew was the regular crew for an MVC game. Bo Boroski was part of this crew. Last time he officiated at Valpo he called the foul where Max Joseph was put in a headlock and ended up having a foul called on him. After Paul's story no such obviously wrong calls were made and you admitted Kiser got away with one. hmmmm.
As I said I don't think anyone is consciously trying to even out the FT situation but when an overwhelming abnormal stat is pointed out it's human nature for a human to even out the stat. It's why coaches constantly have discussions with refs over calls. Why else would they do it?
My post wasn't meant to be a dig on Kiser. I just don't think we can be successful on a regular basis with him playing as many minutes as he does in the roles that he is having to play. His heart and hustle are unmatched....unfortunately heart and hustle can cover up the talent gap only so long.
I see him as an important role player, glue guy, who can come in and spark a rally from time to time or make a game changing play in the middle of the game....he isn't (at least not yet, which is said about a lot of guys which I do find encouraging) a guy who should be getting 30 minutes of PT a game if we are going to win a lot of games going forward.
Love the dunk and I didn't think it was bush league. There was still about 2 minutes left in the game. If Illinois State isn't going to defend an easy lob dunk then so be it. No need to apologize.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/963528937484832769
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/963544161210327041
Quote from: VU2014 on February 14, 2018, 10:22:43 AM
Love the dunk and I didn't think it was bush league. There was still about 2 minutes left in the game. If Illinois State isn't going to defend an easy lob dunk then so be it. No need to apologize.
Valid point. I had turned the game off by that point ... was Muller upset at the play?
I don't think so but I think Paul tweeted out during the game that right after that play Coach Lottich signaled to Muller that it wasn't set play. Micah and Golder literally just caught the Illinois State sleeping on defense.
https://twitter.com/jvick817/status/963048747151261696
Is Muller related to the leader of the D.C. witch hunt?
Absolutely no issue with that play with around 2:00 left. If it was within 40-45 seconds, then it is an issue, but you play until the end with that much time left.
There was exactly one minute to play.
Quote from: vusupporter on February 14, 2018, 02:15:20 PM
There was exactly one minute to play.
Even still I don't mind the dunk. It's not like we were jacking up a quick 3 with 20 seconds left or anything. Illinois State should have played D if they didn't want it to happen. It's not like Markus taunted them, but it was a bit of a symbolistic "returning of the favor" for taunting at their place a few weeks ago.
After being posterized and taunted previously I don't blame our guys for wanting a little payback. What goes around comes around. If you make a team look bad on a play and taunt about it afterward on one day, you have no room to complain if that team shows you up the next. MG didn't taunt anybody after he threw it down. If our coach let the other coach know play wasn't called by him I see no need to apologize. Other coach has no reason to gripe. I don't care how much or little time was left in the game.
If you're looking for rivalries. This is how they get started.
I had no problem with that dunk. I was up and cheering in that clip.
If you don't want your opponent throwing down an alley-oop when they're up big in the final minute of a game, don't taunt one of their players on the ground after a dunk a few weeks earlier. Pretty simple.