Play in seeds

[StlVUFan]

http://basketballpredictions.blogspot.com/2013/03/w-2-bp68.html

The only thing that I care about, and the only reason I am posting this, is that I notice he's got a 12-12 and a 13-13 game as two of the play-in games.  If Valpo somehow makes it to a 13 seed (i.e., by winning the auto-bid), is there any chance they would end up in one of these play-in games, or will they only choose the at-large teams (2 in each case)?

Just curious as to what the intentions are.

[ValpoHoops]

The last four 16's (auto bids) are play ins. The opposite is true for the other two...they are the last four at large teams in. So, no, Valpo wouldn't be there.

[StlVUFan]

The last four 16's (auto bids) are play ins. The opposite is true for the other two...they are the last four at large teams in. So, no, Valpo wouldn't be there.

Thanks.  I was kinda hoping that would be the answer to my question.

[vu72]

The last four 16's (auto bids) are play ins. The opposite is true for the other two...they are the last four at large teams in. So, no, Valpo wouldn't be there.

So that I understand this, the last SIX rated team will make up the 16's with the worst four playing for two spots?  This certainly will effect my projections!

[ValpoHoops]

The last four 16's (auto bids) are play ins. The opposite is true for the other two...they are the last four at large teams in. So, no, Valpo wouldn't be there.

So that I understand this, the last SIX rated team will make up the 16's with the worst four playing for two spots?  This certainly will effect my projections!

Yes...there are SIX #16 seeds, four play in two play-in games.

Then, the last four at-large teams in get to play in the other two play-in games for a spot in the "main" bracket (usually a 12 or 13 seed).

[bbtds]

The last four 16's (auto bids) are play ins. The opposite is true for the other two...they are the last four at large teams in. So, no, Valpo wouldn't be there.

So that I understand this, the last SIX rated team will make up the 16's with the worst four playing for two spots?  This certainly will effect my projections!

Yes...there are SIX #16 seeds, four play in two play-in games.

Then, the last four at-large teams in get to play in the other two play-in games for a spot in the "main" bracket (usually a 12 or 13 seed).

Technically the NCAA is calling the First Four games the First round and the other 60 teams enter the Big Dance in what they now call the Second round games. Technically there are no longer any play-in games.

[StlVUFan]

The last four 16's (auto bids) are play ins. The opposite is true for the other two...they are the last four at large teams in. So, no, Valpo wouldn't be there.

So that I understand this, the last SIX rated team will make up the 16's with the worst four playing for two spots?  This certainly will effect my projections!

Yes...there are SIX #16 seeds, four play in two play-in games.

Then, the last four at-large teams in get to play in the other two play-in games for a spot in the "main" bracket (usually a 12 or 13 seed).

Technically the NCAA is calling the First Four games the First round and the other 60 teams enter the Big Dance in what they now call the Second round games. Technically there are no longer any play-in games.

Technically, they're being silly.  I refuse to call it the first round when 88% of the field is twiddling its thumbs waiting for the other 12% to sort out their differences.

[bbtds]

The last four 16's (auto bids) are play ins. The opposite is true for the other two...they are the last four at large teams in. So, no, Valpo wouldn't be there.

So that I understand this, the last SIX rated team will make up the 16's with the worst four playing for two spots?  This certainly will effect my projections!

Yes...there are SIX #16 seeds, four play in two play-in games.

Then, the last four at-large teams in get to play in the other two play-in games for a spot in the "main" bracket (usually a 12 or 13 seed).

Technically the NCAA is calling the First Four games the First round and the other 60 teams enter the Big Dance in what they now call the Second round games. Technically there are no longer any play-in games.

Technically, they're being silly.  I refuse to call it the first round when 88% of the field is twiddling its thumbs waiting for the other 12% to sort out their differences.

You can refuse to call it that but as the NCAA adds more and more teams you will be the one behind calling as many as 16 or even 32 games play-in games while everyone else will already be calling those games being played first the "first round." You know that's going to happen. It's what most of the people like our own Homer Drew want. How many teams have to be involved in the NCAA tournament before you start calling it the first round? It will get to 8 games next probably but it won't take long to get to 16 games and then 32 games which will mean there will be 128 teams in the Big Dance and every team participating will have a "play-in" game. Is that when it's not a "play-in" game?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

then 32 games which will mean there will be 128 teams in the Big Dance and every team participating will have a "play-in" game. Is that when it's not a "play-in" game?

yes.  next question.

[StlVUFan]

The last four 16's (auto bids) are play ins. The opposite is true for the other two...they are the last four at large teams in. So, no, Valpo wouldn't be there.

So that I understand this, the last SIX rated team will make up the 16's with the worst four playing for two spots?  This certainly will effect my projections!

Yes...there are SIX #16 seeds, four play in two play-in games.

Then, the last four at-large teams in get to play in the other two play-in games for a spot in the "main" bracket (usually a 12 or 13 seed).

Technically the NCAA is calling the First Four games the First round and the other 60 teams enter the Big Dance in what they now call the Second round games. Technically there are no longer any play-in games.

Technically, they're being silly.  I refuse to call it the first round when 88% of the field is twiddling its thumbs waiting for the other 12% to sort out their differences.

You can refuse to call it that but as the NCAA adds more and more teams you will be the one behind calling as many as 16 or even 32 games play-in games while everyone else will already be calling those games being played first the "first round." You know that's going to happen. It's what most of the people like our own Homer Drew want. How many teams have to be involved in the NCAA tournament before you start calling it the first round? It will get to 8 games next probably but it won't take long to get to 16 games and then 32 games which will mean there will be 128 teams in the Big Dance and every team participating will have a "play-in" game. Is that when it's not a "play-in" game?

When that happens, it will no longer be true that the overwhelming majority of teams are waiting for a few to play each other, and as I implied, I will no longer insist on calling them play-in games.

[valporun]

To quote Bryce Harper, "That's a clown question, bro"....

[bbtds]

Yes, it was a silly question. But I was trying to show how silly it was not to call the "play-in" games the first round because the NCAA is doing that because it shows inclusiveness to the teams in the "play-in/first round" games and because everyone knows the NCAA will be including more teams in the future and not subtracting teams from the Big Dance. Therefore the "play-in/first round" games will just keep growing in number no matter how long StlVUFan holds out and keeps calling them "play-in" games.

[StlVUFan]

Yes, it was a silly question. But I was trying to show how silly it was not to call the "play-in" games the first round because the NCAA is doing that because it shows inclusiveness to the teams in the "play-in/first round" games and because everyone knows the NCAA will be including more teams in the future and not subtracting teams from the Big Dance. Therefore the "play-in/first round" games will just keep growing in number no matter how long StlVUFan holds out and keeps calling them "play-in" games.

You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.  If the number of so called "first round" teams increases to the point that there's more of them than the rest, I will stop doing so.  Until then, I won't.

What do you base your prediction on, besides the knowledge that every year coaches like Boeheim lobby for it?

[bbtds]

What do you base your prediction on, besides the knowledge that every year coaches like Boeheim lobby for it?

This isn't reason enough? Why would any coach, AD or president want to shrink their chances of getting into the NCAA tournament?

[bbtds]

Anyway, I have to get ready for watching the Horizon League's, what you would call,  play-in games tomorrow night. The first round starts on Friday at the ARC, correct?   

[justducky]

Quote from: bbtds on Today at 01:48:38 PM
Yes, it was a silly question. But I was trying to show how silly it was not to call the "play-in" games the first round because the NCAA is doing that because it shows inclusiveness to the teams in the "play-in/first round" games and because everyone knows the NCAA will be including more teams in the future and not subtracting teams from the Big Dance. Therefore the "play-in/first round" games will just keep growing in number no matter how long StlVUFan holds out and keeps calling them "play-in" games.
You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.  If the number of so called "first round" teams increases to the point that there's more of them than the rest, I will stop doing so.  Until then, I won't.

This "dead horse" has already been beaten to the point of being unusable by the glue factory but just to help break this fight up here is my 
The NCAA can call these games whatever it wants to but that does not mean that it is the appropriate terminology or that basketball fans need to follow their lead. This reminds me of a local restaurant where I ordered a gumbo soup from the menu and got a bowl of vegetable soup without okra. When I inquired as to why, the reply was that their style of gumbo did not contain okra. After I expained to the waitress and manager that by dictionary definition a gumbo that has no okra is not gumbo, I had 4 or 5 people looking at me like I was the dumbest guy on the planet.

[StlVUFan]

What do you base your prediction on, besides the knowledge that every year coaches like Boeheim lobby for it?

This isn't reason enough? Why would any coach, AD or president want to shrink their chances of getting into the NCAA tournament?

They've been clamoring for it for some time now.  They haven't gotten their way so far.  They're obviously not in charge.

[StlVUFan]

Anyway, I have to get ready for watching the Horizon League's, what you would call,  play-in games tomorrow night. The first round starts on Friday at the ARC, correct?   

One more time: 3 teams are waiting on 6.  Tomorrow night is the first round, and those 3 teams have byes.

Try to keep up, will you?

[Valpo2010]

One more time: 3 teams are waiting on 6.  Tomorrow night is the first round, and those 3 teams have byes.

Just a side note relating to play-in games.  Ever since they announced the HL Tourney format for this year I've thought theres a much better way to do it...

Couldn't we just play a standard 8 team tournament format and make the 8 and 9 seeds play a "play-in" game?

I mean, I understand wanting to give the advantage to the No. 1 seed, but I guess I'm more of a traditionalist...

And if we're adding more schools to the league, I guess it'll all change soon anyways and my point doesn't matter...

Just my 

[valpopal]

Good thing there is no play-in game for Valpo Tuesday night. The forecast is for major snowfall all day, and the attendance would definitely be low for bad weather on a Tuesday.

On the other hand, I was driving around Valpo today and heard a commercial on one of the popular radio stations promoting the tournament at Valpo, plus encouraging fans to get tickets and pack the ARC on Saturday. I'm not sure how effective such ads are, but it was good to hear the promotion.

[bbtds]

One more time: 3 teams are waiting on 6.  Tomorrow night is the first round, and those 3 teams have byes.

Just a side note relating to play-in games.  Ever since they announced the HL Tourney format for this year I've thought theres a much better way to do it...

Couldn't we just play a standard 8 team tournament format and make the 8 and 9 seeds play a "play-in" game?

I mean, I understand wanting to give the advantage to the No. 1 seed, but I guess I'm more of a traditionalist...

And if we're adding more schools to the league, I guess it'll all change soon anyways and my point doesn't matter...

Just my 

This has to do with Jon LeCrone, the HL commissioner, advocating the double bye for the #1 and #2 seeds so that their RPI isn't hurt by playing the lower RPI teams in the conference during the conference tournament. There have been many discussions about this issue on this board in the past. I recommend you look them up and see what has already been discussed.

By the way, when the HL does add more teams for next fall I'm sure the HL tourney format will not change much except for adding more teams to the first round (not a play-in round by the way  ) with the #3 seed having to play four games and the #1 and #2 seeds still getting the double bye. LeCrone likes that format a lot and will not advocate giving it up.

[justducky]

Couldn't we just play a standard 8 team tournament format and make the 8 and 9 seeds play a "play-in" game?

I mean, I understand wanting to give the advantage to the No. 1 seed, but I guess I'm more of a traditionalist...

Hey! One of us! Where were you in 2011 when we were beating this topic to death?

For reference go to RE Change the NCAA Tournament Now! where you will find one page of posts that were made following Butler being blown out by UConn in the 2011 championship game. It starts with wh's all time classic post in criticism of NCAA seeding policy (April 5 2011). Make sure that you read the entire page so that you can fully understand why StLVU Fan is still wiping egg from his face.

[StlVUFan]

Couldn't we just play a standard 8 team tournament format and make the 8 and 9 seeds play a "play-in" game?

I mean, I understand wanting to give the advantage to the No. 1 seed, but I guess I'm more of a traditionalist...

Hey! One of us! Where were you in 2011 when we were beating this topic to death?

For reference go to RE Change the NCAA Tournament Now! where you will find one page of posts that were made following Butler being blown out by UConn in the 2011 championship game. It starts with wh's all time classic post in criticism of NCAA seeding policy (April 5 2011). Make sure that you read the entire page so that you can fully understand why StLVU Fan is still wiping egg from his face.

Hey!  I wasn't the only one 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

here 'tis: http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=96.0

I'm proud to say I got it ahead of the punchline.