Tough luck for BU

[vu72]

Just found out they have lost Roosevelt Jones (leading returning scorer and rebounder) for the entire year.  So much for pre-season travel!

I suspect their fourth place finish in the A-10 and previously in the Horizon, will look pretty good this coming year.  Tough way to take over as coach as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/08/16/roosevelt-jones-butler-wrist-injury-torn-ligaments-out-for-season/2665077/

[bbtds]

Just found out they have lost Roosevelt Jones (leading returning scorer and rebounder) for the entire year.  So much for pre-season travel!

I suspect their fourth place finish in the A-10 and previously in the Horizon, will look pretty good this coming year.  Tough way to take over as coach as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/08/16/roosevelt-jones-butler-wrist-injury-torn-ligaments-out-for-season/2665077/

Don't you wonder what kind of deal Barry Collier made with the devil that BU went to the top game twice and have now fallen so far.

[wh]

Just found out they have lost Roosevelt Jones (leading returning scorer and rebounder) for the entire year.  So much for pre-season travel!

I suspect their fourth place finish in the A-10 and previously in the Horizon, will look pretty good this coming year.  Tough way to take over as coach as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/08/16/roosevelt-jones-butler-wrist-injury-torn-ligaments-out-for-season/2665077/

Don't you wonder what kind of deal Barry Collier made with the devil that BU went to the top game twice and have now fallen so far.

With or without Jones, they were going to struggle this year.  Clarke bailed them out last year; otherwise, they would have had a mediocre season for a second consecutive year since their glory run.  They should be worse this year, in a better league no less. 

Like the Peter Principle says - employees (basketball programs, coaches) that keep getting promoted eventually rise to their level of incompetence.  The only winner is Stevens, who was clever enough to jump ship just as the bloom was leaving the rose.

[EddieCabot]

Just found out they have lost Roosevelt Jones (leading returning scorer and rebounder) for the entire year.  So much for pre-season travel!

I suspect their fourth place finish in the A-10 and previously in the Horizon, will look pretty good this coming year.  Tough way to take over as coach as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/08/16/roosevelt-jones-butler-wrist-injury-torn-ligaments-out-for-season/2665077/

Don't you wonder what kind of deal Barry Collier made with the devil that BU went to the top game twice and have now fallen so far.

With or without Jones, they were going to struggle this year.  Clarke bailed them out last year; otherwise, they would have had a mediocre season for a second consecutive year since their glory run.  They should be worse this year, in a better league no less. 

Like the Peter Principle says - employees (basketball programs, coaches) that keep getting promoted eventually rise to their level of incompetence.  The only winner is Stevens, who was clever enough to jump ship just as the bloom was leaving the rose.

You'll find a lot of Butler fans who share these same thoughts.  Lots of concern about the challenges in the Big East and the level of roster talent Stevens left behind.  It's also pretty clear that the last two seasons have been very disappointing.  Stevens had built up enough goodwill with the Final Four runs that no one really mentioned it much, but the numbers speak for themselves.

First four years:  117-25 (.824), 11-4 in NCAA tournament
Last two years:   49-24 (.671), 1-1 in NCAA tournament (as bbtds pointed out, quite a fall)

Even more telling was how the Horizon teams seemed to be figuring out Stevens' system after just a few years.  The downturn actually started in the '10-'11 season, when Butler had the #2 seed, but struggled for much of the year.  As Paul Oren pointed out this summer (   http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/valparaiso-basketball-what-if---edition/article_70dd67f8-dd2b-11e2-aa72-0019bb2963f4.html ), without some unlucky breaks, it could very easily have been Valpo representing the Horizon in the 2011 NCAA tourney.

The records against Horizon League teams (including league tourney) are even more startling:

First three years ('08-'10):  54-6 (.900)
Last two years ('11-'12):    28-13 (.683)

Things are definitely trending the wrong direction.  I'm not giving up hope yet, but I also recognize the challenges that Butler is facing over the next several years.

[valporun]

Biggest thing I'm reading in these posts about Butler this season, their ego and all the ESPN hype got ahead of what they really were. Someone in the BU athletic offices needed to stop seeing $$ signs from conference jumping and just relax a bit before seeing if Butler is as good as they thought they were.

[a3uge]

Didn't we say last year that Butler was in turmoil and was going to flop in the A10? They had a great year and were a couple baskets from the Sweet 16.

And honestly, why would Butler turn down the NBE and stay in a   considerably worse, watered down fragile A10 conference? Butler was a top 25 RPI team last year. They were 3rd best of the charter NBE schools. So they're supposed to decline a big conference because they're not good enough? What about Providence, Depaul, St John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, and even Xavier's resume for the league that much better than Butler? If Valpo was in this situation and turned down a league with a fat TV deal to stay in a league that just lost 4 members because of "ego concerns", I would be furious.

[bbtds]

Didn't we say last year that Butler was in turmoil and was going to flop in the A10? They had a great year and were a couple baskets from the Sweet 16.

And honestly, why would Butler turn down the NBE and stay in a   considerably worse, watered down fragile A10 conference? Butler was a top 25 RPI team last year. They were 3rd best of the charter NBE schools. So they're supposed to decline a big conference because they're not good enough? What about Providence, Depaul, St John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, and even Xavier's resume for the league that much better than Butler? If Valpo was in this situation and turned down a league with a fat TV deal to stay in a league that just lost 4 members because of "ego concerns", I would be furious.

For the most part Butler was 4th in the A-10 because of Rotnei Clarke & Roosevelt Jones. Now both are gone. I will say that Andrew Smith had some great games but he wasn't consistent through out the whole year. What Butler has not done is keep recruiting players that have made the difference between the Horizon League and the A10/Big East. There are no more Matt Howards, Gordon Haywards, Shelvin Macks, Ron Noreds (now on Celtics staff with Stevens / Brownsburg went 11-10 last season under Nored) or Shawn Vanzants. Butler has yet to recruit anyone of that quality since Roosevelt Jones.

I wonder when the TV contract ends because it probbly won't be renewed.

[zvillehaze]

Didn't we say last year that Butler was in turmoil and was going to flop in the A10? They had a great year and were a couple baskets from the Sweet 16.

And honestly, why would Butler turn down the NBE and stay in a   considerably worse, watered down fragile A10 conference? Butler was a top 25 RPI team last year. They were 3rd best of the charter NBE schools. So they're supposed to decline a big conference because they're not good enough? What about Providence, Depaul, St John's, Seton Hall, Villanova, and even Xavier's resume for the league that much better than Butler? If Valpo was in this situation and turned down a league with a fat TV deal to stay in a league that just lost 4 members because of "ego concerns", I would be furious.

For the most part Butler was 4th in the A-10 because of Rotnei Clarke & Roosevelt Jones. Now both are gone. I will say that Andrew Smith had some great games but he wasn't consistent through out the whole year. What Butler has not done is keep recruiting players that have made the difference between the Horizon League and the A10/Big East. There are no more Matt Howards, Gordon Haywards, Shelvin Macks, Ron Noreds (now on Celtics staff with Stevens / Brownsburg went 11-10 last season under Nored) or Shawn Vanzants. Butler has yet to recruit anyone of that quality since Roosevelt Jones.

I wonder when the TV contract ends because it probbly won't be renewed.

The TV deal runs through the '24-'25 season.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

The TV deal runs through the '24-'25 season

The freshmen on those teams are now entering 2nd grade, by the way.

[insert Mr. Show RECRUITERS! video again]

[bbtds]

The TV deal runs through the '24-'25 season.

Whoa! I wonder if Anthony Calhoun and the folks at WISH-TV can put the Butler broadcasts on channel 23.2 or the WISH weather channel (whatever they call it). They may end up really regretting making such a long term deal. Calhoun may be the sports guy on a small Detroit station by the time the deal ends. 

[vu72]

Not that Jones was that tall at 6'4", but he was tough and their best rebounder. I just looked at their roster and other than Fromm the rest of their "size" is in freshman at 6'10" and 6'9" guys who weigh 200!! Valpo makes them look like JV guys.  Wow, Stephens wasn't the greatest recruiter but hopefully, for them, they continue to play tough D and shoot the lights out.

[zvillehaze]

The TV deal runs through the '24-'25 season.

Whoa! I wonder if Anthony Calhoun and the folks at WISH-TV can put the Butler broadcasts on channel 23.2 or the WISH weather channel (whatever they call it). They may end up really regretting making such a long term deal. Calhoun may be the sports guy on a small Detroit station by the time the deal ends. 

Oops ... I thought you were talking about the new Big East deal with Fox Sports 1 ($500 to $600 million over 12 years).  Not sure what will happen to the deal with WNDY to pick up a handful of games not aired elsewhere.  Keep your fingers crossed and maybe you'll be able to watch Matlock and Family Feud on Saturday afternoons instead of Butler games! 

[bbtds]

The TV deal runs through the '24-'25 season.

Whoa! I wonder if Anthony Calhoun and the folks at WISH-TV can put the Butler broadcasts on channel 23.2 or the WISH weather channel (whatever they call it). They may end up really regretting making such a long term deal. Calhoun may be the sports guy on a small Detroit station by the time the deal ends. 

Oops ... I thought you were talking about the new Big East deal with Fox Sports 1 ($500 to $600 million over 12 years).  Not sure what will happen to the deal with WNDY to pick up a handful of games not aired elsewhere.  Keep your fingers crossed and maybe you'll be able to watch Matlock and Family Feud on Saturday afternoons instead of Butler games! 

Come to think of it I don't get Fox Sports 1 and I forgot the Big East had a TV deal with them and that it would effect the WISH/WNDY deal. To be honest last season I didn't pay as much attention to Butler except the TV sports news. I watched Valpo and caught up on Butler later since their games didn't have any impact on Valpo. It was kind of deja vu because it reminded me of the time Valpo was in the Mid-Con and Butler was in the Horizon. 

[EddieCabot]

Whoa! I wonder if Anthony Calhoun and the folks at WISH-TV can put the Butler broadcasts on channel 23.2 or the WISH weather channel (whatever they call it). They may end up really regretting making such a long term deal. Calhoun may be the sports guy on a small Detroit station by the time the deal ends.

bbtds may have nailed it ... Butler released their schedule and I don't see any games being shown locally on WISH-TV or their affiliate WNDY.

http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/2013-14/schedule

[vu72]

Wow!  The Butler faithful must be jumping for joy about the non-conference home schedule!  Think about getting the chance to see your guys play the likes of Nova Southeastern, Lamar, North Dakota, Manchester, DePauw and mighty NJIT!!!!  Obviously their home conference games will be outstanding but I think one could probably assume their coach is "padding" the schedule to assure a decent overall record given the toughness of the Catholic plus one, now referenced as "CATBUT"

[milanmiracle]

Wow!  The Butler faithful must be jumping for joy about the non-conference home schedule!  Think about getting the chance to see your guys play the likes of Nova Southeastern, Lamar, North Dakota, Manchester, DePauw and mighty NJIT!!!!  Obviously their home conference games will be outstanding but I think one could probably assume their coach is "padding" the schedule to assure a decent overall record given the toughness of the Catholic plus one, now referenced as "CATBUT"

I see that Butler has taken a page out of Notre Dame's preseason schedule. It's actually really smart given the strength of the league.

[vu72]

Just found out they have lost Roosevelt Jones (leading returning scorer and rebounder) for the entire year.  So much for pre-season travel!

I suspect their fourth place finish in the A-10 and previously in the Horizon, will look pretty good this coming year.  Tough way to take over as coach as well.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/bigeast/2013/08/16/roosevelt-jones-butler-wrist-injury-torn-ligaments-out-for-season/2665077/

Don't you wonder what kind of deal Barry Collier made with the devil that BU went to the top game twice and have now fallen so far.

With or without Jones, they were going to struggle this year.  Clarke bailed them out last year; otherwise, they would have had a mediocre season for a second consecutive year since their glory run.  They should be worse this year, in a better league no less. 

Like the Peter Principle says - employees (basketball programs, coaches) that keep getting promoted eventually rise to their level of incompetence.  The only winner is Stevens, who was clever enough to jump ship just as the bloom was leaving the rose.

wh once again shows great insight into the Butler team problems with his above post from mid August.  We have a topic concerning UIC's woes and Butler's are similar.  Now 2-13 in the last 15 (all CATBUT(Catholics plus Butler) league games) With three games to go, they have 2 on the road with a home game against Seton Hall.  Their best chance to win will be at DePaul.

In their defense I will say (similar to UIC) that they have often played well enough to compete--some very tight--but in the end manage to lose.  The more recent games have not been as close probably due to a thin bench and the starters just being worn out.

[valpo64]

I wish someone in the press/media had the guts to state the fact that Butler just is not as very good team...they would have problems in the Horizon League,  this year again they have a one dimensional player in Dunham, I believe their  recruiting in recent years, including for next year leaves a lot to be desired and they are not  deep.  What is all the hoopla about BU basketball?  The term  "The Butler Way" has run its course. Will they be any better next year?  Not much better I would say.

[valpotx]

How long has it been since Butler has not been in any type of postseason tournament?  I would think that they have 0% of anything after the regular season, outside of winning the conference tournament

[zvillehaze]

How long has it been since Butler has not been in any type of postseason tournament?  I would think that they have 0% of anything after the regular season, outside of winning the conference tournament

Agree with your 0% assessment for this year ... this season needs to end, and the sooner, the better.  Butler has been in postseason 15 of last 17 seasons (11 NCAA, 3 NIT, 1 CBI) ... two  missing years were '03-'04 and '04-'05. 

It's been ugly, but not entirely unexpected.  The frustrating part has been the large number of close games (against decent teams like Okie State, LSU, Villanova, Georgetown, Creighton) that they've squandered.  But any way you slice it, they're a mediocre team this year.  And as someone pointed out, they'd be the same mediocre team no matter what conference they were in ... they might have a better record in a weaker conference, but would be the same team.

The real question is whether it's a 1-2 year situation, a 4-5 year situation or a death sentence.  I'm hopeful that with Jones back for two more seasons and a decent recruiting class (with some scholarships still available), they can turn it around.  But only time will tell.

[bbtds]

I, like many of you, delight in the downfall of the Bulldogs. They once were an upstart in a mid-major conference but now because of their greed are suffering in a major conference. The way their fans were behaving on their message board those fans are truly deserving of this downturn in fortune. I'm sure the money is still good but they will be the DePaul of Indy for years to come.

[a3uge]

I, like many of you, delight in the downfall of the Bulldogs. They once were an upstart in a mid-major conference but now because of their greed are suffering in a major conference. The way their fans were behaving on their message board those fans are truly deserving of this downturn in fortune. I'm sure the money is still good but they will be the DePaul of Indy for years to come.

Greed? Really? You think they should have turned down the Big East? Are you crazy? They were in the Horizon League 2 years ago and essentially jumped from the 13th best conference to the 4th best conference and everyone thinks they have a death sentence from a bad year. What sort of leash is expected from a mid major making the jump? A hand to a choke collar? They've been in games to the best Big East teams. They've had only 1 +150 RPI loss all year, and have had more top 100 wins than everyone in the Horizon minus Green Bay.

Everyone rejoicing over a Big East team's struggles should get over themselves and worry about teams in the Horizon that have lost to Evansville, North Carolina A&T, Eastern Illinois, UC Riverside, Loyola, South Alabama, and Austin Peay to name just a few.

Those annoying Butler fans you mention? What about us? How do we look at those weird Oral Roberts fans that had a Valpo fascination 3 years later?

[historyman]

I, like many of you, delight in the downfall of the Bulldogs. They once were an upstart in a mid-major conference but now because of their greed are suffering in a major conference. The way their fans were behaving on their message board those fans are truly deserving of this downturn in fortune. I'm sure the money is still good but they will be the DePaul of Indy for years to come.

Greed? Really? You think they should have turned down the Big East? Are you crazy? They were in the Horizon League 2 years ago and essentially jumped from the 13th best conference to the 4th best conference and everyone thinks they have a death sentence from a bad year. What sort of leash is expected from a mid major making the jump? A hand to a choke collar? They've been in games to the best Big East teams. They've had only 1 +150 RPI loss all year, and have had more top 100 wins than everyone in the Horizon minus Green Bay. Everyone rejoicing over a Big East team's struggles should get over themselves and worry about teams in the Horizon that have lost to Evansville, North Carolina A&T, Eastern Illinois, UC Riverside, Loyola, South Alabama, and Austin Peay to name just a few. Those annoying Butler fans you mention? What about us? How do we look at those weird Oral Roberts fans that had a Valpo fascination 3 years later?

As you may already know I agree with a3uge on this.

[ValpoFan]

Count me also with a3uge. I think we should stop worrying about Butler and what they do.

[FWalum]

I'll pile on with a3uge also.  Only bad teams and bad coaches obsess about what the other team is doing. Worry about what we do and control and forget about what Butler did and has done.