Turn back the clock

[bigmosmithfan1]

That Bradley win was HUGE at the time. They were NCAA tourney regulars under Dick Versace and had beaten us by 50 in Peoria the previous meeting. One of the reasons that they finished with four players at the end is that Versace only brought like 8 or 9 guys on the travel squad that night, figuring that's all he'd need to beat us given the uncompetitive blowout in the prior meeting. That was when VU had Rob Harden pre-meltdown, and when Valpo extended the lead to double digits in the 2nd half, Bradley got frustrated and started fouling guys hard. So guys in red started fouling out quick.

[valpo84]

The Rob Harden meltdown is still one of my favorite #hilltopmagic moments!

[crusadermoe]

Have heard the name.   Was a VHS star who boomeranged back from Florida, right?    What was the melt down?

[VULB#62]

Have heard the name.   Was a VHS star who boomeranged back from Florida, right?    What was the melt down?

Yeah, what are the details.  It has been mentioned a few times. 

[usc4valpo]

I was there for that infamous game against Eastern Kentucky on January 9, 1984, making today the 35th anniversary of the incident. I still shake my head over the entire situation.

Background (please respond where I am off):

Rob Harden was an all state  5' 10" guard from Valpo HS who transferred from Florida. The 1983-84 season logo was "next year is here" where Harden's presence strongly contributed to the enthusiasm and hope of a successful, winning season. Harden was very vocal and passionate to win in basketball. He was beloved amongst basketball enthusiasts in the Valparaiso community for his performance in high school. However, that cannot be said in the Valparaiso University community - he was apathetic in attending class, and was very pompous. I think Tom Smith was desperate to have him at Valpo in a hopeless attempt to jumpstart success.

He transferred to Valpo in 1982 and sat out a year to start play in 1983-84. In 1982-83, basketball schedule posters were distributed. the posters showed Converse shoes with with imprinted names "Meyne" and "Harden". John Meyne played as a junior In the 1982-83 season and was a decent player and good guy; Harden had to sit out the year because of transfer rules. This appeared to be an indicator of the significance of Harden to boost the program. It seemed weird to have a poster promoting an upcoming season that refers to a member who would have to sit out and have no impact.

[bbtds]

I was there for that infamous game against Eastern Kentucky on January 9, 1984, making today the 35th anniversary of the incident. I still shake my head over the entire situation.

Background (please respond where I am off):

Rob Harden was an all state  5' 10" guard from Valpo HS who transferred from Florida. The 1983-84 season logo was "next year is here" where Harden's presence strongly contributed to the enthusiasm and hope of a successful, winning season. Harden was very vocal and passionate to win in basketball. He was beloved amongst basketball enthusiasts in the Valparaiso community for his performance in high school. However, that cannot be said in the Valparaiso University community - he was apathetic in attending class, and was very pompous. I think Tom Smith was desperate to have him at Valpo in a hopeless attempt to jumpstart success.

He transferred to Valpo in 1982 and sat out a year to start play in 1983-84. In 1982-83, basketball schedule posters were distributed. the posters showed Converse shoes with with imprinted names "Meyne" and "Harden". John Meyne played as a junior In the 1982-83 season and was a decent player and good guy; Harden had to sit out the year because of transfer rules. This appeared to be an indicator of the significance of Harden to boost the program. It seemed weird to have a poster promoting an upcoming season that refers to a member who would have to sit out and have no impact.

This is a story about the death of Rob's brother, Rodny, in 2010. Rodny, Roger and Rob's father, Al Harden, was a representative for Converse and explains the use of the Converse poster.

https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/local/harden-dies-suddenly/article_253d6d11-922e-52e3-bdbd-12b3fab9e8c7.html

His dad coached at Denver University and brought a glass backboard with him when they moved to Valpo. Al worked for Converse and would pass out stuff.

Roger Harden starred at Kentucky. I remembered following him in the Sporting News and the occassional TV game. I think Rob had a real chip on his shoulder about how well known his younger brother had become and how he had not been as successful at Florida. Their dad had introduced him to many very well known basketball players through his connections at Converse and Rob thought of himself as something special and that he should be treated better.


Stats for Roger Harden at Kentucky in the 80's

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Harden_Roger.html

[Valpo89]

I'm pretty sure the "incident" that signaled the end of Rob's VU career was when he flipped off assistant coach Dick Fick. During a game.

[VULB#62]

So THAT was he meltdown everyone talks about?

[usc4valpo]

no, there's more to the story.

[valpo84]

Yes, Rob flipped off Tom during a game.  Valpo was a much more competitive team in 83-84.  I was sitting behind the Valpo bench on what would be the visitors' bench side of the court today, although this was in Hilltop so it was all bleachers on that wall.  Somewhere, I provided a bit more detail to this retelling, and there may be some who have more vivid memories.  But, something happened on the court (bad call on Harden for like his 2d foul in 1st half). Smith, who was a great scorer in college, but a terrible coach and a bit arrogant himself, yelled something at Harden.  Harden's body language clearly indicated that he did not care what Tom had to say.   There was another thing that happened (maybe Rob missing an assignment on D after whatever Tom had said).  Tom substituted Rob from the game.  Rob, obviously frustrated, you might say irked, came off the court and headed to the water fountain beyond the end of the bench.  Tom continued to harangue Rob while Rob was disinterested in hearing the encouraging advice from Tom.  As Rob reached the water fountain, Tom was still offering instruction.  At which point, Rob quickly flipped off Tom with his right hand.  Tom was focused on the action on the court and didn't see it.  But, we brothers in the bond sitting there did see it and started to laugh.  Rob did not return to the game, and a few days later (before the next game), Rob announced he was leaving the program.  Rob was a bit like Robby Benson in "One on One," but with a whole lot more grit. Some previous posts on the subject, an article on Roger and a trailer for One on One.

https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/where-are-they-now-roger-harden/article_fea60701-3aea-5537-81aa-927aeced2438.html

https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3050.150

http://valpofans.proboards.com/thread/1368

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFVKLgLiujY

And a Purdue practice back in the 80s/90s under Keady https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkqjjHDEt_w

[bigmosmithfan1]

Both posters here captured the incident well but the middle finger was also accompanied by an "FU" directed at Fick, who had seen the gesture and called him out on it immediately. Everyone in the first four or five rows of the gym heard the f-bomb clearly, and I remember the crowd around me gasping when he said it.

That said, I will disagree with this point:

I think Tom Smith was desperate to have him at Valpo in a hopeless attempt to jumpstart success.

I think this is mischaracterizing it a bit. Smith recruited Harden vigorously out of h.s., and VU was reportedly in his final three with two other high-major programs before Harden chose Florida. This would have been a massive coup, as Rob finished as the runner-up in the Indiana Mr. Basketball voting. No player of that caliber had ever even remotely considered VU prior to that, and when he decided to transfer, Smith was first in line and landed him. It was a MASSIVE deal at the time -- the program appeared to have its first legit "star" since moving to Division I. Also, VHS played before sellout crowds of 5,000 every night back then and getting a few of those folks to drive across town to watch VU held a lot of promise for the program at a time when Hilltop Gym crowds were often three figures.

You're absolutely correct that Rob had a massive chip on his shoulder (he always felt he was overlooked compared to Roger because he was four inches shorter than his younger brother) and that Tom Smith had a way of letting his stubbornness and ego get in the way of long-term success, though. (He ran off more than a few promising players over the years because he'd lose his temper over relatively minor mistakes in practice or games).

That said, what Rob did would get a player launched from just about any college program today. 35 years ago? There was no way he was going to be allowed back on the team that season.

[bigmosmithfan1]

I'll also add that if the incident hadn't happened and Rob had stayed, VU would have probably had its first winning season in D-1 that year. The team looked that good early in the season.

[usc4valpo]

I will not promote bird flipping at the proposed Turn back the Clock event. I am not Bill Veeck.

[VUGrad1314]

I'll also add that if the incident hadn't happened and Rob had stayed, VU would have probably had its first winning season in D-1 that year. The team looked that good early in the season.

If that had happened we may never have hired Homer. I'd say that was the bird that let Valpo take flight.

[usc4valpo]

not sure I agree. Smith was there for 4 more years; thus 8 losing seasons. I think he got tenure since his salary demands were low, and President Shorty Schnabel placed basketball at a very low priority.

[bigmosmithfan1]

Also, Smith resigned. He wasn't fired. He basically quit to go back to D-2 because, as he put it, nobody cared enough about hoops to put him on the hot seat. Think about that.

But there is still some "what if" in that counterfactual. If Smith gets the program going with Harden (Rob would have been on the team that opened the ARC the next year, and that team would've been pretty good... and with a brand-new facility and a good team, recruiting would have picked up quickly), who knows how the program's history plays out after that? Maybe he coaches until the 1990s and Homer (and more importantly, Bryce) end up in at a different religiously-affiliated school in another part of the country.

[Valpo89]

If Harden had stayed at VU, he would have been a fifth-year senior in 1985-86 and would have played a year with Scott Anselm. That would have been cool.

[usc4valpo]

After the game I saw senior guard Mike Thompson and he was really pissed with fans ripping on Rob. He praised Harden's drive to win  but nothing about his antics and behavior. I kind of  knew then that the team was about to collapse.

Rumor also had it that Smith do not want to suspend Harden, but a suspension was enforced by Schabel who was at the game and saw the incident.

Another weird thing was a Torch newspaper article providing empathy and support for Harden. The article emphasized the pressure Rob had in playing in the "very competitive" AMCU8 conference and the immense expectations from the university and student body. No, this was not the Torch parody edition. the AMCU8 conference pretty much consisted of schools transitioning from Div. 2 to 1.

[bigmosmithfan1]

UIC was indeed transitioning to Division I, along with Green Bay and Southwest Missouri State (now MSU). The other five teams had been D-1 for at least 5 to a dozen years.

VU had played UIC a handful of times prior to the AMCU. But they weren't yet the Flames. For extra credit, name the different institution name they played under, as well as the *two* different nicknames they played under during those early meetings.

No wikipedia-ing!

[bigmosmithfan1]

After the game I saw senior guard Mike Thompson and he was really pissed with fans ripping on Rob. He praised Harden's drive to win  but nothing about his antics and behavior. I kind of  knew then that the team was about to collapse.

Rumor also had it that Smith do not want to suspend Harden, but a suspension was enforced by Schabel who was at the game and saw the incident.

Mike was a hard-nosed competitive dude, so I'm not surprised to hear that was his reaction.

Smith probably would have let the middle finger slide, but he absolutely was going to back up his assistant after the F-bomb to Fick and was indeed going to suspend/discipline Harden regardless. Now, I absolutely could have seen Smith proposing a short suspension and Schabel insisting on something much sterner, and Harden, being the impulsive guy that he was, saying "screw this" and leaving.

A Harden/Anselm backcourt would have indeed been a lot of fun. Heck maybe Mike Jones goes straight to VU without the brief detour to Miss. State first if that happens.

[usc4valpo]

University of Iliinois - Chicago Circle, home of the Chicas

[usc4valpo]

Also, Eastern Ill, Western Ill and UIC started Div. 1 in 1981. I think UWGB and Sw Mo St started in 1982.

[sliman]

UIC also was University of Illinois - Chicago Circle, I believe.

[usc4valpo]

Valpo can face UIC, where UIC can wear their powder blue "circle" unis

[bigmosmithfan1]

Also, Eastern Ill, Western Ill and UIC started Div. 1 in 1981.

Basketball Reference said WIU went D-1 in 1972 and EIU moved up in 1978. Cleveland State moved up in 1971 per Wikipedia.