http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/cuts-and-shaves-free-haircuts-giveaway.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/cuts-and-shaves-free-haircuts-giveaway.html)
Oh boy this is going to be fun!
I see us pulling this one out, based on Detroit's inability to hit their FTs:
Valpo 71
Detroit 63
Quote from: valpotx on January 13, 2013, 02:34:48 AM
I see us pulling this one out, based on Detroit's inability to hit their FTs:
Valpo 71
Detroit 63
I wouldn't count on that. The announcers yesterday were saying how they normally are pretty good--70%ish as I recall. Even McCallum was missing them.
Contest #1 is now open, http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/beatdetroit-contest-1-predict-final.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/beatdetroit-contest-1-predict-final.html)
Normally they are decent at the line. I think someone from CSU, probably @pronkville, snuck down before the game and at the half and tightened the rims on the Detroit hoop.
I keep finding new and fun ways to illustrate the ineptness of Detroit's bench.
How about A QUIZ!??!
Detroit's ENTIRE roster outside of their starting 5 has scored fewer points this season than
a) Bogan plus 9 games' worth of Dority
b) Coleman plus Boggs
c) Rossi and Capo, plus Kenney
d) All of the above
(No Bryce rookie cards or haircuts for the right answer, sadly.)
I think Detroit will be looking to avenge their loss, but VU will hit the boards, control the ball and come out winners.
Valpo - 73
Detroit - 71
THEY are 9-0 at home, wins over Northern Michigan, Rochester Coll and these D1 with RealTime RPI numbers: Drake 182, Toledo 191, Alabama State 323, Akron 82, Canisius 119, UWM 318 & Green Bay 192. They have played in some really tough arenas: Syracuse, St. Johns, Miami (FL) and Pittsburgh.... all losses.
Valpo Road Wins: Kent 160, Missouri State 238, Murray State 71, UIC 112 and UWM 318
Common Opponents: Valpo Beats Cleveland State by 24, UDM LOST to Cleveland State by 12; Valpo beat UWM by 24, UDM beat Cleveland State by 15.
I predict this game will be won/lost by Fouls on the Big Guys... ours or theirs. Not necessarily the free throws resulting from the fouls, but who gets into foul trouble and lets the other team's bigs have fun underneath.
Look at Points in the Paint for their last two games: 54 in the win over YST (to 32) and the Cleveland State game, both teams had 38. We're going to need Bobby to step and start scoring on those put backs.
I'm feeling a 15 point game... I hope we're on the good side!
Quote from: talksalot on January 14, 2013, 04:30:27 PMCommon Opponents: Valpo Beats Cleveland State by 24, UDM LOST to Cleveland State by 12; Valpo beat UWM by 24, UDM beat Cleveland State by 15.
Somethings wrong here. Detroit has not played Cleveland State twice. Did you mean Detroit beat Milwaukee by 15?
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/beatdetroit-contest-2.html?m=1 (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/beatdetroit-contest-2.html?m=1)
2nd game contest open. Predict Rowdy's first half combined total of points + rebounds.
I think LaPorteAve may have taken a shot at me there, but since no one else is playing his quiz I will guess D?! :P
No shot! I don't have any cool prizes, but if I did I would give them to you.
YOU ARE CORRECT!
I would also have accepted
E) Ray McCallum is overrated.
From the Detroit board - Excellent, in-depth pre-game analysis from Commissioner:
Re: Valpo game
by Commissioner » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:28 pm
Preview: Valparaiso at Detroit, 7:00 p.m., Thursday, January 17, Calihan Hall. Game will be broadcast on ESPNU.
Stakes are pretty obvious: last year Valpo won the Horizon regular season, only to be upset by Detroit in the Conference tournament. This year Valpo and UD were picked to finish 1-2, respectively, in the Horizon League poll and in most other pre-season publications, with a maybe 25% reversing the order of finish. Both teams enter the game at 3-1 in conference play. Detroit has more to lose and correspondingly, I suppose, less to gain, since we're playing at home, and Valpo has already won 2 road games in conference. A Valpo win gives them a big edge over the Titans, and puts them in position to take over the league's top spot on Saturday when they face Wright State. The flip side is that a Valpo loss, beyond being a loss to the Titans, makes their Saturday game a backs to the wall type outing, since a WSU win would then give the Raiders a 3 game lead over Valpo in the loss column. Of course, the Titans also have at stake a 17 game home win streak, tied for 8th longest in the nation. Valpo is the last team to beat the Titans in Calihan Hall, 73-71 last January 6. Titan fans will remember that as one of the low points of the season, with Erik Buggs dribbling the length of the court, almost unconstested, for the winning layup at the buzzer.
No need to say too much about Valpo's personnel because we know them pretty well. It all starts with Ryan Broekhoff, on his way to a second consecutive Horizon POY Award. Broekhoff has moved into second in the league in scoring, behind Ray McCallum, his chief rival for POY. He's 1st in rebounding, 2nd in foul shooting and 3 point shooting, third in overall FG percentage. He may not have the size and tools for an NBA career, but he's a superb mid-major player who can score low or extend out to the perimeter. He passes well and plays solid defense. He comes into Detroit on a string of 3 consecutive double-doubles.
Broekhoff's running mate is senior forward Kevin Van Wijk, another all-conference selection last year. Van Wijk is a bruiser - he's now fouled out of 7 games this year, and his regular foul trouble has limited him to just 22 minutes per game. He still averages 12.3 points and 5.3 rebounds per game, and gives Valpo a strong inside presence.
In the back court Valpo goes with the "Killer Bs," Erik Buggs, Will Bogan, and Ben Boggs. All three are active players, solid on defense, but they leave the scoring to the big guys up front. In fact, of late Matt Kenney has been starting in place of Boggs, and Boggs' PT has also dropped sharply because of the arrival of Lavonte Dority, a transfer from South Florida who became eligible in December. Dority brings the Crusaders a third good scoring option to go with Broekhoff and Van Wijk. He's averaging 12.8 ppg in 9 games, 4 as a starter. After Broekhoff, he is probably the biggest 3 point threat on the team, although Bogan can also hit from outside.
Bobby Capobianco, the 6-10 Indiana transfer, provides added bulk inside and means Valpo doesn't miss much when Van Wijk hits the bench with foul trouble. Jordan Coleman, a 6-4 transfer from Hawaii, also plays regularly. Between the Killer Bs, Kenney, Dority, and Coleman, Valpo comes at the guard position in waves. If Calliste is limited from getting bashed in the nose at Cleveland State, we could have some real depth problems there. The 6-10 Jamaican sophomore Vashil Fernandez is also available in a pinch. Alex Rossi, a transfer from California who can hit the trey, is out with an unspecified injury.
This should be another high scoring game - the two teams are 1st and 3rd in the Horizon in points per game, and have the two highest shooting percentages in the league. But Valpo is a better defensive team and Detroit's 3 point defense is always a problem, especially with someone like Broekhoff. Broekhoff is not only an excellent three-point shooter but his size can create mismatches even when Detroit rotates quickly enough to get a man on him. Broekhoff put up 26 points on the Titans last year at Valpo.
A Titan victory will likely be predicated on turnovers. Detroit is first in the league in turnover margin, and Valpo is dead last. We'll have the home court advantage and hopefully bring our 'A' game.
You can tell he hasn't watched us play much recently. Boggs pt down due to injury, Dority not the next big threat from deep he just shoots the most (yo, commish remember what Bogan did at your place last year). Regardless, not bad from an outsider.
#BeatDetroit
I thought the commissioner's analysis was spot on, fair, and well written. It will likely come down to turnovers. Ryan and Ray will get their 20 plus. It is how well the other's compete that will tell the story.
Definitely fair and well written. It's hard to breakdown a team you don't watch on a regular basis. He did a fine job.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 14, 2013, 10:33:04 AM
I keep finding new and fun ways to illustrate the ineptness of Detroit's bench.
How about A QUIZ!??!
Detroit's ENTIRE roster outside of their starting 5 has scored fewer points this season than
a) Bogan plus 9 games' worth of Dority
b) Coleman plus Boggs
c) Rossi and Capo, plus Kenney
d) All of the above
(No Bryce rookie cards or haircuts for the right answer, sadly.)
Here's a follow up question ... who has scored more points this season:
a) Detroit's starters (in 17 games).
b) Valpo's entire roster, excluding Matt Kenney (in 18 games).
Actually, that makes my point even better, so thank you: only a tempo-free comparison would be apples 2 applez.
--Detroit, 50th in poss/gm, averages 71.2 possessions/game and gets 77.8 ppg, or 1.09 points-per-possession.
--We, 244th (!) in poss/gm, average 65.8 possessions/game and get 68.9 ppg, or 1.05 points-per-possession.
A marginal difference which, given that our eFG% is 53.4 and theirs only 50.4, can solely be ascribed to turnovers (and our marked propensity therefore/or their reluctance to indulge in them).
SO when it comes down to scoring, we're every bit as good at it (25th in the nation in True Shooting %; they're 97th) as they. AND we have a bench.
Speaking of whom, I almost forgot the kicker: your comparison means the Detroit bench is EVEN WORSE than I originally described, because they play at a much higher tempo than we do (50th vs. 244th).
OF COURSE Detroit's starters score a lot of points, Eddie: they HAVE to! Who else is gonna fill the hoop?
(NOT NJOKU)
I mean, this is candy from a diabetic, but hey why not:
--Detroit's starters have logged nearly 75% of their team's minutes this year.
--Our starters log 62.7% of our minutes. That's an entire extra game on Detroit's starters' legs every 8 games.
Detroit's bench, points-per-possession: 0.164
JUST Bogan and Dority, points-per-possession (even counting all the possessions that Dority wore warmups for, even): 0.168
Gets worse: points per minute played...Detroit Bench 0.23 / Bogan & Dority 0.3...etc. etc.
Let's not forget this is "shell-of-2011-Will-Bogan" I'm running out here too.
(http://permissiontokill.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ispy.jpg)
Bogan-n-Dority: the I SPY for the new generation*
(* owen wilson & eddie murphy? never happened)
BOOM / michael scott voice: THREAT NEUTRALIZED
In other news, we're FIFTH in the nation in people fouling out! WOOt. Oh, and NINTH in DREB%. KILLIN' it.
I will enjoy not seeing Lowe and Holman inside. Our guys were so panicked to go inside the last few years because of those two.
In regards to the analysis by Commish, it was pretty good for not seeing us often. I would say that KVW would still average 22-25 minutes regardless of foul trouble, as Bryce wants to limit his injury issues.
Found this Detroit "Highlite" video on their fan site. Pretty funny in that their highlites a filmed in front of a pretty empty house! Nice fan support. I'm guessing that even Detroit will bring a pretty good crowd out for this game. If we can keep them rattled and away from the street ball then I thinkwe will be fine. If it gets into a track meet we are toast.
http://youtu.be/lEL_3OmWoXM (http://youtu.be/lEL_3OmWoXM)
A little PPS preview if anyone is interested.
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/pps-preview-for-beatdetroit.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/pps-preview-for-beatdetroit.html)
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-i-would-beatdetroit.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/how-i-would-beatdetroit.html)
Here is how I would consider attacking Detroit. This is probably why I teach middle school and not coach division 1 basketball.
Don't forget to get your final score predictions and Ryan's first half stats prediction posted in the comments sections.
#BeatDetroit
#219
yeah Holman was a beast. Cory Johnson stood up to him in a game at Valpo and that was a key.
It seems everybody in Las Vegas has Detroit this morning by 3.5 to 4 points.
http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/offshore/line-movement/valparaiso-@-detroit-mercy.cfm/date/01-17-13/time/1900 (http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/offshore/line-movement/valparaiso-@-detroit-mercy.cfm/date/01-17-13/time/1900)
Valpo 67 Detroit 64
I think that Valpo is on a trend of gradual improvement and feeling a little more confident. This is definitely a key game to get.
Valpo Needs this one VU 65 DMU 62 control the tempo! hope I'm right!! :thumbsup:
If you concede that Ray Jr. and Ryan are a push talent wise and effect on the game wise (I don't) and say that Minnerath and KVW are a push, then the difference in the game comes down to the rest of the team. Detroit lacks depth and we don't. Will our playing 9 wear them down? Can any of our guys get hot and hit some 3's?
I presume there will be a decent crowd, who knows, but I'm betting that we matchup well and much better than last year because they are not nearly as big inside. With Bobby and KVW anternating I expect some open looks. If we can play within ourselves and not allow a track meet, we win. If it goes to sreet ball they win.
I hate to be the Debbie Downer for this game but I think Detroit rebounds from their loss at Cleveland State and Valpo is overdue for one of their sloppy turnover prone games. Detroit's starters just aren't going to get worn down in a game against Valpo. The Titans may feel the effects of this Valpo game in their next game against UIC but I don't think they wear down in this game.
Valpo 69
Detroit 74
One of the keys to the game - We have to get some 3-pt. scoring from someone other than Ryan and Lavonte. If the combination of Bogan, Boggs, Kinney and Coleman has one of those 1-13 games, we're probably going to lose. If they hit even 3 or 4, that 9-12 points will be the difference between a 5-pt. loss and a 5 pt. win.
The outcome of this game is almost completely in our hands. If we keep our turnovers down and shoot the ball well, it really doesn't matter what Detroit does.
Quote from: vu72 on January 17, 2013, 09:28:47 AM
If you concede that Ray Jr. and Ryan are a push talent wise and effect on the game wise (I don't) and say that Minnerath and KVW are a push, then the difference in the game comes down to the rest of the team. Detroit lacks depth and we don't. Will our playing 9 wear them down? Can any of our guys get hot and hit some 3's?
I presume there will be a decent crowd, who knows, but I'm betting that we matchup well and much better than last year because they are not nearly as big inside. With Bobby and KVW anternating I expect some open looks. If we can play within ourselves and not allow a track meet, we win. If it goes to sreet ball they win.
That's going to be a stern challenge, because I think the character of this year's Valpo team is to push in transition. I think Bryce has a slightly higher tolerance level for transition turnovers than we do. I see guys constantly looking to make an upcourt pass for a possible fast break where they have to thread the needle a bit. I'm not talking about LaVonte Dority driving 1-on-3 and getting easily stuffed over and over again, obviously. I'm talking about someone like Wil Bogan seeing Ryan Broekhoff the way Jay Cutler sees Brandon Marshall and decides to risk the pass even though he's not literally all alone in the front court.
Bryce may not be as reckless as Paul Westhead of LMU fame, but I get the impression he's been coaching his team to constantly push in transition.
My fear is this might play right into Detroit's hands.
Remember what happened when we tried to slow the tempo against New Mexico - holding the ball until late into the shot clock, off-balance desperation shots, forced 3's, and a gazillion TO's from "over" handling the ball. Ours is a team of rote. We do far better when we don't try to do anything outside our comfort zone.
If you are on our men's team, you have the games against Detroit circled this year. Not just because of them being picked 1 or 2 in the pre-season polls, but because of the crap they pulled last year in the title game. As a man, and as a competitor, you don't let them forget the POS thing that Ray did at the end of the game, or what some fans did around your campus. Instead of using your fists, punch them in the mouth with quality shots from the start. This is in addition to the motivation of getting beat down by 20 on national TV on your home court, in the most important game of your season last year.
Valpo 72
Detroit 12
(This might be wishful thinking...)
Quote from: Smj on January 17, 2013, 12:58:00 PM
Valpo 72
Detroit 12
(This might be wishful thinking...)
That's only if Ditka plays.
Quote from: wh on January 17, 2013, 11:37:34 AMRemember what happened when we tried to slow the tempo against New Mexico - holding the ball until late into the shot clock, off-balance desperation shots, forced 3's, and a gazillion TO's from "over" handling the ball. Ours is a team of rote. We do far better when we don't try to do anything outside our comfort zone.
This team is playing much better then the team we watched play against New Mexico. You dont' have to drain a shot clock to slow down the tempo.
F ESPNU. Thought I could stream tonights game from Horizon Network or ESPN3. Nope, it is blacked out since it is on the U.
http://thefirstrow.eu/watch/163784/1/watch-valparaiso-vs-detroit.html (http://thefirstrow.eu/watch/163784/1/watch-valparaiso-vs-detroit.html)
Turnover city
Thanks Apostle!
#15 Buggs is horrible. Valpo would not have a turnover problem if not for Buggs. He is a point guard who can't score and turns the ball over. I don't know how Buggs continues to start. We are so much better with Buggs out and Dorrity in.
I hate espn's policy when a game is on espnU and espn3.... I called them last time and the guy said he thinks the policy makes sense.... DUMB!!!
Out scouted so far. They are getting better looks on offense and on defense if you double dority...he coughs the ball up
Quote from: Valposter on January 17, 2013, 06:25:59 PM
#15 Buggs is horrible. Valpo would not have a turnover problem if not for Buggs. He is a point guard who can't score and turns the ball over. I don't know how Buggs continues to start. We are so much better with Buggs out and Dorrity in.
Not saying your wrong, but at the 4:50 mark in first half, Dority has three TO's, Buggs only 2. I don't have their TO/min, but I think Buggs starts for his overall coordination of the offense. He certainly is no scoring threat.
I don't think we'll continue with 42% from the field and 12.5% from 3pt land, and I'm sure they won't stay at 69%/60%. I do hope that we continue with 100% FT, and Detroit with 16% FT.
This team looks lost.
or scared....
It is absolutely pathetic how we look right now. Buggs looks so defeated when teams play off of him, like they aren't going to know you can play 5-on-4 against us if you play off of him. I've said it before about this team, but they need to NUT UP, especially Buggs. If you can't make a wide open 3 at the D-1 level when they are 10 feet away from you, you don't need to be playing in games where they sag on you. I could nail those all day long, it's just like shooting in the gym all alone! Be a man, son
Quote from: covufan on January 17, 2013, 06:41:10 PM
Quote from: Valposter on January 17, 2013, 06:25:59 PM
#15 Buggs is horrible. Valpo would not have a turnover problem if not for Buggs. He is a point guard who can't score and turns the ball over. I don't know how Buggs continues to start. We are so much better with Buggs out and Dorrity in.
Not saying your wrong, but at the 4:50 mark in first half, Dority has three TO's, Buggs only 2. I don't have their TO/min, but I think Buggs starts for his overall coordination of the offense. He certainly is no scoring threat.
If Bugg's big contribution is "coordination of the offense", then he isn't contributing anything because this offense isn't coordinated.....completely out o sync. Buggs could be the only man on the court and he couldn't score. He is so frustrating to watch. He passes up wide open shots to drive into a double-team only to get rejected. Uhgggggg!
Yes, we are having a turnover issue but don't you think the fact that Nick Minnerath has missed one shot all nigh, 8 for 9 from the field with 3 threes with 21 points has a lot to do with Valpo being down by 18 at the half?
He is good...we haven't had an answer
Detroit going to hit 100 this game
4 minutes into half and we have four team fouls to detroit's zereo
Bad in-game coaching by Bryce so far. It's like he still hasn't prepared us for when they sag on Buggs. Also, add Minnerath to the thug list. That guy pushes off on every rebound, and then you have Ray on the offensive end stiff arming everyone to get space
Dority is slowwwww
FUC$ you Detroit!!!!!! I will eat some crow and say that we made some great adjustments in the last 12 minutes. The guys NUT UP and were men. That was amazing, and when done, I had to let out a huge cussing streak of words as loud as I could, because that was unbelievable. Way to be men Crusaders. Ray Sr wanted to blow us out, their guys were talking trash, and the better team won!
Unbelievable! Unimaginable! Fantastic!!!
Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow........great comeback!!!!!
GREATEST COMEBACK EVER
I did question Bryce calling his last timeout with 4 minutes left, but it seems that our guys just willed themselves to a win. Seriously, I have NO respect for Detroit's players and coach, so that makes it even sweeter. They are the only team I do not even respect, as they are a majority of trash talkers.
What'd they shoot? 65% in the first half? I was thinking, wow, if we have a good second half we can get back within 10. Unbelievable!
Here's the question... can Minnerath get player of the week with the loss? With a career high from van Wijk (why couldn't they do anything to defend that lob?), maybe it won't be an issue.
Really amazing.
YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! Absolutely crazy! I'd like to take the credit for walking away from the tv on this one at the end of the 1st, the team plays better when I'm not watching (Although I did watch the last 4 minutes...without breathing). Wow! What a performance to not give up even though they were making us look stupid early on. The only thing that scares me though is that Detroit will now be incredibly mad when we see them next time.
MESSAGE BOARD
ASPLODE
...
c'mon, Truth219, we're waiting for you to come and poop all over the cake.
When Capo got ejected... I thought "Man, can van Wijk handle ten minutes?" And he did look gassed at times. When the ball wasn't live.
Clear that the announcers didn't really know Broekhoff's game. He practically _always_ has a quiet game. He averages 17 and 8 on quiet games.
What was Kenney 5-5?
How did we ever come back from that first half? _Man!_
Well what a game made even sweeter as it was against Detroit and at their place. My throat is sore from all the yelling and screaming but it was worth it. Can't beat a better team than Detroit, they still have no class. What a game from Kevin, sweet shooting by Matt and thank goodness it was Rowdy at the end hitting those free throws. But am I mistaken that when you get grabbed from behind it's a intentional? Enjoy the ride home team that was a sensational come back from a team that didn't give up. :thumbsup:
Also, I believe Apostle called the ending early in the 1st half (although no FT's were thrown on their part in the final minute). If there is a team that you want to have attempting to run clock, it's Detroit. If you make them have to run an offence...trouble (for them).
My blood pressure is still through the roof and I feel awesome!!! Love the Crusaders!
I was going to say UNBELIEVABLE... but nope... BELIEVABLE !! Loved the replays of Bugg's drive last year... I saw it in person... and I like watching it on replay....
You wonder if Bryce mentioned how long a bus ride home it would be... now, I believe that team doesn't need a bus to get home...
57 point second half... incredible!! Can't wait for Saturday night. READ THAT: NO LET DOWN
As happy as I am that Valpo won, keep in mind that we beat them twice in the regular season last year, and it didn't help us in March. Great comeback though.
Who remembers last year when Edwards got tossed, and then Valpo turned it around to come back and win? I wonder if Capo's flagrant did the same to fire us up this year. It seemed to me that's when we turned it around and never slowed up.
What a game! Never gave up and kept playing hard - and suddenly found some good defense. Kept going to Van Wijk which was great. Best Valpo game I have seen in a long time. When was the last time they came back from 22 down? When was the last time they scored 57 in a half? Amazing!
Of course, I have to say that McCallum Sr. continues to be one of the worst coaches around. He slowed it down when their offense was not being stopped. That second technical when Capobianco made the flagrant 2 probably was the first big turning point.
I will say that was awesome, but when I made my comments that's how I felt about what I was viewing at that point. we came back with the right answers. Kvw looked first team tonight and frankly he has been there all season. Buggs although he has moments where he is crap...he runs our team best at point. Sure when he is out there he turns it over a lot but when he isn't the rest of our team turns it over more. Very proud of valpo tonight.
Yes.
Quote from: koala on January 17, 2013, 08:11:26 PM
Well what a game made even sweeter as it was against Detroit and at their place. My throat is sore from all the yelling and screaming but it was worth it. Can't beat a better team than Detroit, they still have no class. What a game from Kevin, sweet shooting by Matt and thank goodness it was Rowdy at the end hitting those free throws. But am I mistaken that when you get grabbed from behind it's a intentional? Enjoy the ride home team that was a sensational come back from a team that didn't give up. :thumbsup:
I was saying 'clear path, clear path, clear path,' but I am not sure if that is the same rule in NCAA as it is in the NBA. He did have a clear path, so it should have been intentional in my book
(http://i47.tinypic.com/17vehs.jpg)
Quote from: koala on January 17, 2013, 08:11:26 PMBut am I mistaken that when you get grabbed from behind it's a intentional?
Yeah, I definitely wondered about that. Bobby's play was surely more dangerous. But it didn't seem like Detroit had any better look at the ball when they fouled Ryan than Capo did fouling Anderson.
I called for a hard (clean) foul on Anderson, I will take what I can get. For as mulch as rag on Capo I don't think anyone else on the team would've had the guts to foul like that.
Imagine if they could put an entire game together like that second half.
What a comeback!!! Give Bryce alot of credit for keeping the guys up and hustling, always positive...I hope our new recruits and K.Carter watched this game...this could turn our season up a whole bunch! Now no let up for WSU
Quote from: valpotx on January 17, 2013, 08:06:18 PMThey are the only team I do not even respect, as they are a majority of trash talkers.
And of course there was the technicals. Both times Valpo converted the techicals into 2 points on 2 free throws.
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/?m=1 (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/?m=1)
BWs was rocking in Valpo
Living in Oklahoma and being a Thunder fan, Perkins brings a mean to the team that desperately needs it.
Capo brings a tough to our team. I think he's a blue collar player and every team needs one. Ask the Detroit Pistons.
Does anyone think the replay will be aired on the HL network? I didn't get to watch the game and had to read it play by play. Would love to see it.
Bobby does play a little bit more blue collar, I can see that as well. When watching the replay, it just looked to me like he was too slow to try and slap the ball, as Anderson is a prolific dunker. Bobby swiped at where the ball WAS, and couldn't adjust because he is too slow. In real time, it looked a lot worse than it was. It only looked that way because he was going to try a windmill dunk, and it would have been NASTY too
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 17, 2013, 08:37:40 PMDoes anyone think the replay will be aired on the HL network? I didn't get to watch the game and had to read it play by play. Would love to see it.
It will be archived on ESPN 3. It was not an HLN production so it will not be on HLN.
:o Great Game !!!!!not the tempo I thought we needed but ,It's a keeper!
No question the Bobby take down play was a huge momentum changer. For the record it never would have happened if Anderson would have gone straight to the hoop, but he just had to wind up for the showboat windmill and Bobby caught him.
Quote from: truth219 on January 17, 2013, 08:15:26 PMI will say that was awesome, but when I made my comments that's how I felt about what I was viewing at that point. we came back with the right answers. Kvw looked first team tonight and frankly he has been there all season. Buggs although he has moments where he is crap...he runs our team best at point. Sure when he is out there he turns it over a lot but when he isn't the rest of our team turns it over more. Very proud of valpo tonight.
I don't know which I like more: reading this from Truth or the comeback itself.
...thinking
OK IT"S STILL THE COMEBACK!!!1!
Watched the last 4 minutes with the great comeback from 9 down. Outstanding win. Detroit just didnt take care of the ball during their possessions and Matt Kenney...nicely done.
Great road win.
Wh you are right on, hotdog got burned that time.
Does Capo have to sit out Saturday?
OK, I'm back to normal, with an extra cocktail (or two ;)) Wow! I actually think I called it in that I said that if we settled into street ball (first half) we were in trouble. I also said it was a push between Ray and Ryan (advantage Ryan) and a push between Minnerath and KVW and that was pretty much true. The difference was Matt and Erik and his defense. hats off to both.
A definitive game to be sure and evidence of the maturity and senior leadership of this team, which is starting to get it together. look out!! Here we come! :o
Quote from: HC on January 17, 2013, 08:58:37 PM
Wh you are right on, hotdog got burned that time.
Does Capo have to sit out Saturday?
I certainly hope not. wh was correct in that had Doug just gone for the jam it would have happened with perhaps a foul to boot. But, the hotdog went for the fancy slam and Capo caught up. I think the refs had no choice on the call but I don't really think it was intentional other than an intentional foul to stop the shot. It worked out well with Ryan making two on the taunt and Doug making one of two on the foul. We then stole their in-bounds to settle the play.
Quote from: HC on January 17, 2013, 08:58:37 PMDoes Capo have to sit out Saturday?
...according to wiki, yes :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagrant_foul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagrant_foul)
I just noticed something alarming....KVW had 0 fouls :o
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 17, 2013, 08:08:01 PM
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On Capo missing the next game.
Ouch! It was a tough play. Anderson stole the ball from Capo in the first place, right? Capo really had to hustle to get back there, and seemed definitely out of control. Looked mad! And, as has ban said, clearly didn't have the time or finesse to adjust for the windmill dunk.
It will definitely be sad, and hurt the team, to not have him Saturday. Does KVW have 30+ in him? 35+?
I hate to say it, but it sure is fun to watch Anderson fly through the air like he does.
Got the contest winners, pm me your info and ill get your prizes.
@ValpoCubs4ever new twitter follower winner
Jeremy Paul predict Ryan's first half points+rebounds
Valpo2010 predict the final winner
I'll do something for an upcoming home game I hope. We are in the process of moving so we will see
Meanwhile, in the Player of the Year match-up:
McCallum and Broekhoff both played 35 minutes, Ray had only 6 points while taking 11 shots and Ryan had 18 points while taking just 10 shots, plus Ryan had the game-tying and game-winning points but Ray passed up the chance to take a game-winning shot. Advantage Rowdy!
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 17, 2013, 09:06:12 PM
Quote from: HC on January 17, 2013, 08:58:37 PMDoes Capo have to sit out Saturday?
...according to wiki, yes :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagrant_foul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagrant_foul)
wikipedia is not quite up to date for this year but the result is the same for Capo.
It should read:
The NCAA defines two levels of flagrant fouls, typically referred to as "Flagrant 1" and "Flagrant 2". Referees have discretion in determining which level to call, but the primary distinction is that a Flagrant 2 results in the immediate ejection of the offender. A player who receives two Flagrant 1 fouls in a single game is also ejected upon the second foul.
The penalty for a Flagrant 2 technical foul in NCAA rules is immediate ejection of the offending player, plus two free throws and a throw-in for the opposing team. The ejected player is also suspended during the next game played by his or her team.
Luckily we will be at home, and we have played without Bobby at home successfully earlier in the season. I would be more worried if it were on the road. Vashil will have to play 8-10 minutes or so, which should not be as big of an issue against a slower WSU. Detroit is way too quick to have Vashil in for too long. Anderson would have had a dunk party on the near seven footer
Quote from: agibson on January 17, 2013, 09:12:38 PMI hate to say it, but it sure is fun to watch Anderson fly through the air like he does.
I agree, but only when it's because Capo sent him thus.
Quote from: valpopal on January 17, 2013, 09:16:17 PM
Meanwhile, in the Player of the Year match-up:
McCallum and Broekhoff both played 35 minutes, Ray had only 6 points while taking 11 shots and Ryan had 18 points while taking just 10 shots, plus Ryan had the game-tying and game-winning points but Ray passed up the chance to take a game-winning shot. Advantage Rowdy!
Ray's 6 point total was his lowest scoring game of the season, and 4th lowest scoring game of his 3-year 86-game career. Great defensive job!
Who from Detroit received Techs? How did it come about?
McCallum after blocking a layup from... Dority? Saying "not in my house" or similar, presumably.
And then Calliste somehow responding to Capo's flagrant foul on Anderson. Just cursing? Not sure.
Jr got one and I think Calliste? I believe both we're taunting. They didn't have the volume up in BWs so I'm not 100% sure.
I'm more impressed with Ryan every game. Tonight it would be his composure.
1) those game winning free throws
2) he got cheap spotted at least 3 times in the head either after free throws or going down the court and never was openly whining to the officials or daddy, errr Coach
3) I think the only time I've seen him ever confront a ref on a call was tonight on the blatant goaltend that somehow all three officials missed, and he dropped that pretty quickly
I know Commish didn't think he is NBA material, but he couldn't be more wrong. This kid is the real deal.
I think it is funny that their forum is questioning both the Ray Jr and Calliste technicals. The NCAA will NEVER allow someone to yell 'get that outta here' or whatever Ray said after his block, as well as Calliste saying something to Bobby as he is walking off the court. You didn't see Bobby getting in anyone's face, so Calliste is OBVIOUSLY going to get that called on him if he tries to instigate further. It just shows what a sh@t coach Ray Sr is, as he even tried to defend his son on his BS mouthing off. I hope both do absolutely nothing further in life of significance
Ray said ....git tha shi odda her
Anyone notice after the capo block anderson laid in front of the camera holding his crotch breathing heavily out of his nose like a bull
Quote from: HC on January 17, 2013, 09:40:38 PMI think the only time I've seen him ever confront a ref on a call was tonight on the blatant goaltend that somehow all three officials missed
I guarantee you who ever is in charge of officiating for the Horizon League will make it abundantly clear to tonight's refs that they blew that call and if it happens again they won't be officiating any more HL games or at least not as many as they would have.
bbtds, i wish you were right.
i hesitate to ask this of you, but if you're as into Schadenfreude as I, would you mind copying/pasting a couple of their best rants, or just linking to them? :D
I assume you are talking about when Anderson held onto the rim while the ball was coming off the backboard? That was pretty awful, and it seemed like they were slow to call the 2 other goaltends that we got. It seemed like 3 seconds went by on each before they did the obvious and blew the whistle. Hmmmmm....ball hits the backboard, Minnerath swats it as it is going to the rim at that point...uh duhhhhhh, maybe I should blow this whistle thing?
Ray Sr. has no control over his team. They do as they please. They don't run a set offense.
I would hope if one of our players received a tech for taunting, Bryce would pull him out and have a coaching moment with him.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 17, 2013, 09:49:31 PMi hesitate to ask this of you, but if you're as into Schadenfreude as I, would you mind copying/pasting a couple of their best rants, or just linking to them?
I'm not sure what you mean by best rants.
They're really going at it on the ESPN message thread for the game.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/conversation?gameId=330172174 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/conversation?gameId=330172174)
I've never noticed that for a Valpo game.
I just mean if they are really griping, you know, the ones that give you the most pleasure to read.
Like reading an ND thread after either the BCS game or the dead girlfriend hoax, you know?
Oh, and for the record: we're undefeated when giving up 80 or more...
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 17, 2013, 09:56:31 PM
I just mean if they are really griping, you know, the ones that give you the most pleasure to read.
Like reading an ND thread after either the BCS game or the dead girlfriend hoax, you know?
Oh, and for the record: we're undefeated when giving up 80 or more...
That wasn't me that was referring to the messages on the Detroit board. That was valpotx.
Quote from: agibson on January 17, 2013, 09:55:58 PMThey're really going at it on the ESPN message thread for the game.
I think being on the U helped a lot.
I was really enjoying giving it to them on that page...notice I gave us a shout out, trying to get more VU fans ova here? :) RECRUITING SKILLZ
Quote from: HC on January 17, 2013, 09:40:38 PM
Jr got one and I think Calliste? I believe both we're taunting. They didn't have the volume up in BWs so I'm not 100% sure.
I'm more impressed with Ryan every game. Tonight it would be his composure.
1) those game winning free throws
2) he got cheap spotted at least 3 times in the head either after free throws or going down the court and never was openly whining to the officials or daddy, errr Coach
3) I think the only time I've seen him ever confront a ref on a call was tonight on the blatant goaltend that somehow all three officials missed, and he dropped that pretty quickly
I know Commish didn't think he is NBA material, but he couldn't be more wrong. This kid is the real deal.
Yeah, was invisible, went for "only" 18 and 9, oh well... :D :clap: :clap: :clap:
They are calling for Ray Sr.'s head
http://www.detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=428 (http://www.detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=428)
"The refs take the game over. The Valpo goon changed the game too."
From the game thread on the UDM forum. Capo, a goon? Coming from Detroit? Are you serious?
Detroit post game interview is up.
MBB postgame vs. Valparaiso (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QLHV-554oQ#ws)
Poor Minnerath :(
STRAIGHT UP TROLLIN', Y'ALL
(not trollin y'all, of course) with some fun schadenfreude thrown in that i didn't even comment on...
(http://oi49.tinypic.com/v3g77a.jpg)
(http://oi46.tinypic.com/2j5dw07.jpg)
(http://oi49.tinypic.com/mhaybo.jpg)
(http://oi45.tinypic.com/muuyo4.jpg)
(http://oi46.tinypic.com/5y8wh.jpg)
(http://oi48.tinypic.com/cmhyu.jpg)
(http://oi49.tinypic.com/2vj4uih.jpg)
(http://oi47.tinypic.com/xq9d34.jpg)
What's the record for road teams in Horizon League games this season? 6-15? And we're three of the road wins? (And, OK, one of the home losses.)
I know its early in the conference season, but Rowdy won this match up against Ray Jr. They will square off again but Rowdy made a big statement tonight.
Two technicals and 13-20 at the line. Detroit is all talent but no discipline.
Sometimes the PA Announcer can have an effect on the game. Prior to the first media time out, after a Valpo missed shot Broekhoff grabbed the offensive rebound. As he snagged the ball, the official blew his whistle for a Valpo foul. He signaled 55 to the scorer's table as it appeared the foul had been on Van Wijk. The scoreboard showed the foul on Van Wijk as did the official stats. A second later the PA Announcer said foul on Valpo's 45 Ryan Broekhoff. A few seconds later the scoreboard and live stats changed the foul to Broekhoff. If this had happened at Valpo, play would have been stopped (by the scorers table) and the officials would have been asked who the foul was on. This did not happen at Detroit, and the foul was wrongly charged to Broekhoff. This had no factor on the game as neither Broekhoff or Van Wijk were in any foul trouble. Just can't ever remember a PA Announcer having an effect on the game.
I was skeptical after the ugly first half, and was ready to change the channel, until my girlfriend slapped me back to reality, and she called the comeback too. I was really impressed with Matt Kenney tonight. He'd been away for awhile, but he definitely showed up big tonight. The Capo flagrant 2 made sense considering the intensity of his slamming his arm across Anderson's windup. I still can't make sense of how three officials could miss such an easy goaltending call on Anderson during the layup, but you can be sure that the HL Director of Officiating has been on the phone with these guys about it already.
I not sure about all of the adjustments that Bryce and the coaching staff made in the second half, but they were just what we needed, and we definitely took advantage of the Detroit starters playing with a slight chip on their shoulders the second half. Minnerath was their key tonight, seemed until the closing minutes, that he couldn't miss, regardless of where he put the shot up from. To shutdown McCallum was the best part of this game. If he had been on, like he usually is, Detroit scores 100+, and we're dead in the water, ala YSU. Kudos to the Detroit FT line playing a solid denial defense on many of their FT attempts.
Still need to fix the turnover ratio/issues, but overall, we're looking better. Need to keep it up for Saturday night, and hope we don't have tired legs, because we'll need them majorly against WSU, whether they are slow or not, we need to get our legs, and play our game, not the Raiders' game.
Loved that game... Beautiful win. Fundamentals won this game - this is an example of a coaching win or coaching loss. I waited to watch the game until it was archived on ESPN3 so I had to stay away from here.
However I have to say I really enjoyed reading the thread and seeing the moods change. If someone sees a Valpo post game interview please post the link. Great win - definitely the kind of confidence booster the team needs.
Would someone kindly copy the Post Tribune game story and post it? I have tried their "free access" sign-up on more than one occasion, but all I can get access to is the mother ship paper Sun Times. If it wasn't for wanting to see the game article, I would totally blow off their website.
Quote from: valpotx on January 17, 2013, 06:54:02 PMBuggs. If you can't make a wide open 3 at the D-1 level when they are 10 feet away from you, you don't need to be playing in games where they sag on you.
Buggs fired up 2 threes towards the end of the game. You can't fault him this game for not trying. And he didn't shoot any worse from three than others on many nights. Buggs also hit 2 of 3 free throws and without that kind of free throw shooting we don't win.
Valparaiso pulls off stunning rally to beat Detroit
By Michael Osipoff 648-3137 or mosipoff@post-trib.com January 17, 2013 11:12PM
The Big Number
Valparaiso had five turnovers in the second half after committing 10 in the first. Entering the game, opponents had committed 17.2 against Detroit, an average ranked No. 23 nationally, and the Titans' turnover margin of plus-5.6 was No. 6.
"They're a very good defensive team," said Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew, whose team had averaged 15.6 entering the game. "We're not the only team they've turned over; they've turned over everybody all year.
We knew we were going to turn the ball over some against them, so our big thing was we just wanted to not make it so many that we couldn't recover from it."
The Bonus
With 11:17 left in the game, Bobby Capobianco was called for a flagrant foul and ejected, when Doug Anderson came up with a steal and was on his way to a would-be dunk.
DETROIT — What turnovers?
What sketchy defense?
What career game from Nick Minnerath?
Long, long, long forgotten, with Valparaiso instead authoring a dizzying, determined, dogged comeback. The Crusaders overcame a 22-point second-half deficit to stun Detroit 89-88 at Calihan Hall, adding another chapter to the burgeoning rivalry between the teams.
With a career-high 31 points from Kevin Van Wijk and Ryan Broekhoff knocking down the go-ahead free throws to complete the see-it-and-still-not-quite-believe-it rally — it was the Crusaders' first and only lead of the game — they scored the game's last 12 points over the final 2:37 to break a second-place tie in the Horizon League and set up Saturday's matchup for first place at the ARC against Wright State.
"I was kind of speechless in the locker room after the game," Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew said. "I though Detroit dominated the game for the most part. We were able to chip away in the second half, chip away, and the last couple minutes we made a bunch of shots in a row to give us a chance for the lead there at the end. It was just one of those crazy games we've had against Detroit these last few years. I'm just really proud of our guys how they persevered in the second half."
Said Van Wijk: "We needed to keep fighting. ... We knew it was going to take the whole game and not just one minute. We knew if we kept fighting and kept playing hard, we'd slowly get back in the game."
Valparaiso (14-5, 4-1 Horizon League), which swept its three-game road stretch, snapped a 17-game home win streak for Detroit (11-7, 3-2), with the Crusaders also having won 73-71 on Erik Buggs' coast-to-coast layup on Jan. 6, 2012. The Titans also had won 22 straight games in which they had scored at least 80 points.
"Your guess is as good as mine," Broekhoff said with a laugh, when asked how Valparaiso was able to pull off the win. "Obviously, we went into halftime and really weren't happy with how we played. We knew if stuck to it and played like how we normally play, they might let us back into the game. We just really locked down on defense, and our offense was really working in the second half. We made some plays down the stretch and they kind of tightened up. It was one heck of a win. It's hard to explain."
Valparaiso trailed 60-38 with 17:08 left when Minnerath — who scored 36 points, the most by a Horizon League player this season, on 12-of-17 shooting, including 4-of-7 from 3-point range, doing it in a wide assortment of ways, regardless of how the Crusaders attempted to guard him — made three free throws. But though the Crusaders were down, they were not out.
Detroit still led 88-77, before Matt Kenney made a 3-pointer with 2:37 left and another with 1:48 left. Van Wijk, a force inside all game as he shot an unconscious 13-of-15 from the field en route to surpassing his previous best of 25 points at Kent State earlier this season, scored, then added two free throws to make it 88-87 after a back-court violation on the Titans.
Ray McCallum then committed a turnover, and Broekhoff was fouled with 17.4 seconds left as he headed toward the other end of the court. He proceeded to make both free throws to put the Crusaders — who shot 20-of-32 (62.5 percent) from the field in the second half — in front.
"I was pretty calm, actually," said Broekhoff, who entered the game shooting 90.3 percent from the line. "I just knew that I had put in the work, I had made all my free throws to that point (6-of-6, finishing 8-of-8, as part of an 18-point, nine-rebound night, just short of his fourth straight double-double). I felt pretty good. Just shoot it in rhythm and stay in your routine, and hope it goes in in the end."
Detroit called timeout with 13.4 seconds left, before Evan Bruinsma missed a 3-pointer. The Titans grabbed the offensive rebound and called timeout with 2.1 seconds left, before Minnerath missed a contested 3 as time expired, as the Crusaders celebrated.
"Heartbreaking loss," Detroit coach Ray McCallum said. "There's a reason they're the defending (regular-season) Horizon League champs. They play to the end. They make hustle plays. ... They got the stops and made the plays down the stretch to get the win."
Kenney had 12 points for the Crusaders on 4-of-5 shooting from 3-point range. Doug Anderson — who Drew described as "probably the best dunker and jumper in the country" — had 17 points for the Titans on 8-of-11 shooting, and Jason Calliste added 14 on 6-of-10. The Crusaders limited McCallum to six points on 2-of-11 shooting.
Detroit had used a 13-2 run to take a 17-6 lead with 13:18 left in the first half, and opened up a 50-32 halftime cushion when Calliste hit a deep 3-pointer with one second left, as the Titans shot 21-of-31 from the field (67.7 percent).
"Detroit's such a talented team, and they score the ball so quickly; I thought we actually played pretty good defense for a while, and they just made shot after shot," Drew said.
"I think both teams get a little extra fired up for these games, just because we've played each other so many times the last few years (including in each of the last three league tournaments). I definitely think both teams were excited to play tonight. Detroit came out and got all over us right away."
But the Crusaders would not be denied in the second half.
"You can't get it all back at once," Broekhoff said. "If you try to do too much too early, it's just going to work opposite for you. We tried to get a few points down each media break, each timeout, just try to get little wins that add up. We gave ourselves an opportunity with a couple minutes left, and really made some good plays. ... It was really good execution down the stretch."
Crusaders score final 12 points to get past Detroit
4 hours ago • Paul Oren Times Correspondent
The Valparaiso men's basketball team didn't need a buzzer-beater to win at Detroit this season. It needed a perfect final three minutes.
The Crusaders brushed off a 22-point second half deficit and scored the final 12 points of the contest to complete an improbable comeback with an 89-88 win against the Titans on Thursday.
Kevin Van Wijk scored a career-high 31 points and Ryan Broekhoff knocked down two free throws with 17.4 seconds left to give the Crusaders their first lead since the opening moments of the game.
Detroit had two chances at a game-winner, but Evan Bruinsma and Nick Minnerath each missed 3-pointers in the final five seconds.
"We kept plugging away and we took the game one possession at a time," Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew said. "We knew there wasn't any 20-point shot or 10-point basket that we could hit out there."
The game was yet another heart-stopping contest at Calihan Hall. Last season Erik Buggs went the length of the court in the final seconds to hit a game-winning layup at the buzzer.
"I don't think we've been down this much and been able to come back to win," Drew said. "As a former player and now a coach you see both sides of it and sometimes there just isn't an explanation."
Minnerath was unstoppable for much of the evening as the fifth-year senior scored a career-high 36 points. Minnerath missed last season with an injury but has long been respected by the Crusaders as the best player on Detroit's roster. With the game on the line, Minnerath missed just his fifth shot of the night, setting off a wild Valparaiso celebration.
"There is no question that (Detroit) dominated the game for much of the night," Drew said. "They have five guys who can score in double figures. Erik (Buggs) did a good job forcing (Ray) McCallum to pass on one of the last shots. I'm extremely proud of this team right now."
The Crusaders (14-5, 4-1) trailed 88-77 with just under three minutes remaining when Matt Kenney knocked down back-to-back 3-pointers. Van Wijk then scored four points before Broekhoff connected on the final two free throws of the night. Broekhoff was fouled after Buggs poked the ball away from McCallum with 19 seconds left.
"We stayed together and we stayed composed," Van Wijk said. "We knew that we had to chip away over time. We have a lot of experience on this team. Everyone has been in a situation like this before."
Broekhoff had 18 points and nine rebounds while Matt Kenney added 12 points. Doug Anderson had 17 points for the Titans (11-7, 3-2) while McCallum was limited to just six points.
Quote from: agibson on January 17, 2013, 10:13:17 PM
Detroit post game interview is up
Poor Minnerath :(
Okay - why is there no Valpo post game interview ??? ???
(If they recorded mcCallum then wouldn't they record Valpo for a post game interview? WTF)
Quote from: Smj on January 18, 2013, 12:13:38 AMI waited to watch the game until it was archived on ESPN3 so I had to stay away from here.
I can't find it!!! Someone help.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 18, 2013, 06:53:37 AM
Quote from: Smj on January 18, 2013, 12:13:38 AMI waited to watch the game until it was archived on ESPN3 so I had to stay away from here.
I can't find it!!! Someone help.
I have the espn app on my iPad and it shows up under replay.... There also appears to be a link on the Internet that may or may not work?
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/roadblock?watchsrc=true&device=ios&id=745053&_slug_=valparaiso-vs-detroit (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/roadblock?watchsrc=true&device=ios&id=745053&_slug_=valparaiso-vs-detroit)
Or
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index?rb=true&watchsrc=true&device=ios&id=745053#type/replay/ (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index?rb=true&watchsrc=true&device=ios&id=745053#type/replay/)
Quote from: wh on January 18, 2013, 12:44:04 AMWould someone kindly copy the Post Tribune game story and post it?
I've found that if you have a smart phone, you can circumvent these problems, just fyi.
Quote from: historyman on January 18, 2013, 01:04:12 AMQuote from: valpotx on January 17, 2013, 06:54:02 PMBuggs. If you can't make a wide open 3 at the D-1 level when they are 10 feet away from you, you don't need to be playing in games where they sag on you.
Buggs fired up 2 threes towards the end of the game. You can't fault him this game for not trying. And he didn't shoot any worse from three than others on many nights. Buggs also hit 2 of 3 free throws and without that kind of free throw shooting we don't win.
This was a great game and a great comeback! However, it appears to me that the comeback really was fueled between the 7 minute mark and 3 minute mark during a large portion of that time when Buggs was on the bench. It is so obvious to me that we are playing 5 on 4 offensively when Buggs is on the court. That is so difficult to do effectively against good, athletic, defensively-skilled teams. It's no wonder we have a hard time getting offensive rhythm and flow, passing lanes and open looks (with the exception of Buggs on which they are wasted) against good teams. That is the only way that teams can remotely hold Rowdy in check because they can easily double-team him by leaving Buggs literally unguarded and Buggs still cannot score, break down the defense, or make them pay in any signifcant way. If you can't consistenly make a wide open 12-foot jumper as a guard, you can't start at the Division 1 level on a good team. Layer in the turnovers and it makes that statement even more emphatic.
I know Buggs is a college student-athlete and I am sure a great guy, and I am not bashing him as a person, just his performance on the court. I really want to see Valpo have a season to remember because I think they have that kind of potential and talent overall. But Buggs has to either play significantly better immediately (and no one would be happier than me to see that, but I don't think that is likely to happen) or they need to find another solution at point guard. It is so obvious to me that Buggs is holding this team back so far this season in every way and it amazes me that he is held practically unaccountable on this board or by the coaching staff.
It drives me absolutely crazy seeing the immense potential of this team go drastically under-realized because they don't have, imo, a point guard playing competantly at the Division 1 level thus far this season. College basketball is a guard-driven sport (especially at the point!) and Valpo will only go as far as their point guard position can take them. Valpo needs to get significantly better point guard play to make it to March Madness and to have any chance of doing something special once there. It would be nice to have another highlight this year (a Rowdy buzzer beater) to replace the Bryce shot.
But let me end this post on a positive note. That was a great comeback on the road against a good but distasteful team, Kevin had a great game, and Rowdy was, is, and always will be ice!
Quote from: Smj on January 18, 2013, 06:53:26 AM
Quote from: agibson on January 17, 2013, 10:13:17 PM
Detroit post game interview is up
Poor Minnerath :(
Okay - why is there no Valpo post game interview ??? ???
(If they recorded mcCallum then wouldn't they record Valpo for a post game interview? WTF)
BYOC- Bring your own camera. Until you get to tournaments, it's up to each athletic department to record any post-game discussions they want. Detroit doesn't have to record ours if they record their own.
Quote from: Valposter on January 18, 2013, 09:23:19 AM
Quote from: historyman on January 18, 2013, 01:04:12 AMQuote from: valpotx on January 17, 2013, 06:54:02 PMBuggs. If you can't make a wide open 3 at the D-1 level when they are 10 feet away from you, you don't need to be playing in games where they sag on you.
Buggs fired up 2 threes towards the end of the game. You can't fault him this game for not trying. And he didn't shoot any worse from three than others on many nights. Buggs also hit 2 of 3 free throws and without that kind of free throw shooting we don't win.
This was a great game and a great comeback! However, it appears to me that the comeback really was fueled between the 7 minute mark and 3 minute mark during a large portion of that time when Buggs was on the bench. It is so obvious to me that we are playing 5 on 4 offensively when Buggs is on the court. That is so difficult to do effectively against good, athletic, defensively-skilled teams. It's no wonder we have a hard time getting offensive rhythm and flow, passing lanes and open looks (with the exception of Buggs on which they are wasted) against good teams. That is the only way that teams can remotely hold Rowdy in check because they can easily double-team him by leaving Buggs literally unguarded and Buggs still cannot score, break down the defense, or make them pay in any signifcant way. If you can't consistenly make a wide open 12-foot jumper as a guard, you can't start at the Division 1 level on a good team. Layer in the turnovers and it makes that statement even more emphatic.
I know Buggs is a college student-athlete and I am sure a great guy, and I am not bashing him as a person, just his performance on the court. I really want to see Valpo have a season to remember because I think they have that kind of potential and talent overall. But Buggs has to either play significantly better immediately (and no one would be happier than me to see that, but I don't think that is likely to happen) or they need to find another solution at point guard. It is so obvious to me that Buggs is holding this team back so far this season in every way and it amazes me that he is held practically unaccountable on this board or by the coaching staff.
It drives me absolutely crazy seeing the immense potential of this team go drastically under-realized because they don't have, imo, a point guard playing competantly at the Division 1 level thus far this season. College basketball is a guard-driven sport (especially at the point!) and Valpo will only go as far as their point guard position can take them. Valpo needs to get significantly better point guard play to make it to March Madness and to have any chance of doing something special once there. It would be nice to have another highlight this year (a Rowdy buzzer beater) to replace the Bryce shot.
But let me end this post on a positive note. That was a great comeback on the road against a good but distasteful team, Kevin had a great game, and Rowdy was, is, and always will be ice!
We were down 9 when Buggs went out with 9:30 to go, we were down 9 when he came back in for good with 3:20 left. Also, a quick scan of the play-by-play (assuming its accuracy) shows we outscored Detroit by about 7 with Buggs in the game. Yes, he struggles with the jumper, but quite a few times last night, he took advantage of his defender helping on drives by cutting to the basket unguarded and being in position for a pass and easy layup - I believe he made about 3 baskets that way and got fouled once as well.
Am I reading the box score correctly? I'm getting used to outrebounding our opponents, but it looks like we had 17 offensive rebounds to their 16 defensive rebounds? We rebounded a bigger fraction of our misses than they did?!
How rare is is that?
(Granted this is with four "team" offensive rebounds for us, and one "team" defensive rebound for them.)
For an eleven point margin in second-chance points (17 for us, 6 for them). Overcoming their 9 point margin in points of turnovers and their 1 point margin in fast break points.
Quote from: Valposter on January 18, 2013, 09:23:19 AMHowever, it appears to me that the comeback really was fueled between the 7 minute mark and 3 minute mark during a large portion of that time when Buggs was on the bench.
erm...seems to me that the comeback was ultimately fueled in the last three minutes, you know, when we went on a 12-0 run? Buggsy had two key assists in that time--on the 2nd Kenney 3-ball, and the last of the "oh geez KVW is all alone again" layups.
Let's face it...if the lil guy *were* a scorer, he wouldn't be in Valpo--he'd be in the SEC or B1G, because that is all he is missing.
in FACT, at the SEVEN minute mark we were down NINE and at the 3 minute mark ELEVEN!
Check it if you don't believe me:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=330172174 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=330172174)
EDIT...and I see that VUSupporter has beaten me to the obvious. Sorry to be redundant, but well-played, sir.
Buggs was fantastic and made Jr look like a chump all night.
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/valpodetroit-pps.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2013/01/valpodetroit-pps.html)
PPS for the game. Minnerath, KVW, and Ryan all with huge scores. Buggs outscores Jr, beautiful!
Statistical oddity (not to give UDM fans anything to whine about, because they do enough of that already)...
KVW, no fouls (thanks to chef's pointed-out mistake by the scorers) in 30 minutes.
He had
--fouled out of 7 of the previous 11 games.
--not gone foulless since only 16 min against CSU this year.
--not gone foulless in 30+ min since Akron LAST NOVEMBER.
--been in the top ten in most fouls in all of college basketball. (now drops to #11!)
Just part of the amazing game he had.
Quote from: Valposter on January 18, 2013, 09:23:19 AM
Quote from: historyman on January 18, 2013, 01:04:12 AMQuote from: valpotx on January 17, 2013, 06:54:02 PMBuggs. If you can't make a wide open 3 at the D-1 level when they are 10 feet away from you, you don't need to be playing in games where they sag on you.
Buggs fired up 2 threes towards the end of the game. You can't fault him this game for not trying. And he didn't shoot any worse from three than others on many nights. Buggs also hit 2 of 3 free throws and without that kind of free throw shooting we don't win.
This was a great game and a great comeback! However, it appears to me that the comeback really was fueled between the 7 minute mark and 3 minute mark during a large portion of that time when Buggs was on the bench. It is so obvious to me that we are playing 5 on 4 offensively when Buggs is on the court. That is so difficult to do effectively against good, athletic, defensively-skilled teams. It's no wonder we have a hard time getting offensive rhythm and flow, passing lanes and open looks (with the exception of Buggs on which they are wasted) against good teams. That is the only way that teams can remotely hold Rowdy in check because they can easily double-team him by leaving Buggs literally unguarded and Buggs still cannot score, break down the defense, or make them pay in any signifcant way. If you can't consistenly make a wide open 12-foot jumper as a guard, you can't start at the Division 1 level on a good team. Layer in the turnovers and it makes that statement even more emphatic.
I know Buggs is a college student-athlete and I am sure a great guy, and I am not bashing him as a person, just his performance on the court. I really want to see Valpo have a season to remember because I think they have that kind of potential and talent overall. But Buggs has to either play significantly better immediately (and no one would be happier than me to see that, but I don't think that is likely to happen) or they need to find another solution at point guard. It is so obvious to me that Buggs is holding this team back so far this season in every way and it amazes me that he is held practically unaccountable on this board or by the coaching staff.
It drives me absolutely crazy seeing the immense potential of this team go drastically under-realized because they don't have, imo, a point guard playing competantly at the Division 1 level thus far this season. College basketball is a guard-driven sport (especially at the point!) and Valpo will only go as far as their point guard position can take them. Valpo needs to get significantly better point guard play to make it to March Madness and to have any chance of doing something special once there. It would be nice to have another highlight this year (a Rowdy buzzer beater) to replace the Bryce shot.
But let me end this post on a positive note. That was a great comeback on the road against a good but distasteful team, Kevin had a great game, and Rowdy was, is, and always will be ice!
What do you think we can do, recruit mid season. We have who we have. Obviously buggs is our best option. Dority had 4 turnovers last night in 13 mins. Buggs has the capacity to drive the lane and either get a lay up, find an open man, or take it back out. Dority basically always goes to the hoop or turns it over. He isn't as quick as buggs nor does he have the court vision. Then there is bogan...who is a 2 gaurd...not a point. He has been in the gutter offensively lately but his defense is legit.
I made the post about Buggs not shooting when wide open at halftime. I was happy to see that he at least TRIED to get a shot off in the second half. If you don't even attempt to shoot a 3 now and then when they literally are 10-15 feet away, then they prove that they don't have to guard you until you get to the FT line on your drive.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 18, 2013, 10:58:50 AMin FACT, at the SEVEN minute mark we were down NINE and at the 3 minute mark ELEVEN! Check it if you don't believe me:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=330172174 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=330172174) EDIT...and I see that VUSupporter has beaten me to the obvious. Sorry to be redundant, but well-played, sir.
I am talking about the entire season's body of work, not just last night's game. But certainly we saw the same mistakes from Buggs last night that we have been seeing the entire season. Turnovers. Missed wide-open shots. Passed up wide open shots. Bad decisions. Everyone, game after game, complains about the offensive flow and the number of turnovers even though we have all of this senior talent returning along with the best player in the conference. There is a reason for that, and his name is Buggs. Why is this team under-performing with senior leadership and the best player in the conference? I keep hearing the question, "why isn't this team clicking". We have threads about it game after game. We have a specific thread with that title. What is the reason? Is it Rowdy .....obviously not. Is it Kevin....no. Is it our point guard position.........yes! That position more than any is responsible for ball security, and the rhythm and flow of the offense. And that is repeatedly the two things EVERYONE has complained about with this team all season to this point. And it's ridiculous to say that if Buggs could score (i.e. hit an open 12-foot jumper consistently) that he would be too good for Valpo or the HL. There are plenty of point guards in the HL that can score, assist, protect the ball, and run the offense. Buggs is in the bottom half of HL point guards. He is Valpo's weak link and is going to hold this team back from accomplishing what is possible and what everybody wants.
I believe in the eye test, and Buggs does not pass the eye test. But, just look at some stats and compare if you won't or can't see it with your eyes:
Buggs: 505 minutes; 46% FG%; 11% 3-pt%; 52% FT%; 50 TO's; 97 total points; 5.1 pts/game.
Dority: 252 minutes; 37% FG%; 30% 3-pt%; 84% FT%; 26 TO's; 124 total points; 12.4 pts/game.
Dority is third on the team in scoring with about half of the minutes of Buggs. And his turnover/minutes is comparable to Buggsand would probably improve wit more playing time. That's not even factoring in the positive impact that Dority's offensive threat and presence would have in Rowdy getting more open looks thus increasing his scoring output and Kevin getting more space to work withing underneath as defenses cant sag back playing off Buggs.
Apples and oranges, my friend.
Get some tempo-free stats and then we can talk.
As we start focusing ahead, I wanted to repost a link from HC in another thread. With Valpo @ Cleveland State on ESPN2 in a couple weeks, there's an alumni gathering to attend in addition to the game. http://www.valpo.edu/alumni/events/clevelandstategameandlunch.php (http://www.valpo.edu/alumni/events/clevelandstategameandlunch.php) C'mon down to Cleveland-town everyone!
Quote from: Valposter on January 18, 2013, 02:56:21 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 18, 2013, 10:58:50 AMin FACT, at the SEVEN minute mark we were down NINE and at the 3 minute mark ELEVEN! Check it if you don't believe me:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=330172174 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=330172174) EDIT...and I see that VUSupporter has beaten me to the obvious. Sorry to be redundant, but well-played, sir.
I am talking about the entire season's body of work, not just last night's game. But certainly we saw the same mistakes from Buggs last night that we have been seeing the entire season. Turnovers. Missed wide-open shots. Passed up wide open shots. Bad decisions. Everyone, game after game, complains about the offensive flow and the number of turnovers even though we have all of this senior talent returning along with the best player in the conference. There is a reason for that, and his name is Buggs. Why is this team under-performing with senior leadership and the best player in the conference? I keep hearing the question, "why isn't this team clicking". We have threads about it game after game. We have a specific thread with that title. What is the reason? Is it Rowdy .....obviously not. Is it Kevin....no. Is it our point guard position.........yes! That position more than any is responsible for ball security, and the rhythm and flow of the offense. And that is repeatedly the two things EVERYONE has complained about with this team all season to this point. And it's ridiculous to say that if Buggs could score (i.e. hit an open 12-foot jumper consistently) that he would be too good for Valpo or the HL. There are plenty of point guards in the HL that can score, assist, protect the ball, and run the offense. Buggs is in the bottom half of HL point guards. He is Valpo's weak link and is going to hold this team back from accomplishing what is possible and what everybody wants.
I believe in the eye test, and Buggs does not pass the eye test. But, just look at some stats and compare if you won't or can't see it with your eyes:
Buggs: 505 minutes; 46% FG%; 11% 3-pt%; 52% FT%; 50 TO's; 97 total points; 5.1 pts/game.
Dority: 252 minutes; 37% FG%; 30% 3-pt%; 84% FT%; 26 TO's; 124 total points; 12.4 pts/game.
Dority is third on the team in scoring with about half of the minutes of Buggs. And his turnover/minutes is comparable to Buggsand would probably improve wit more playing time. That's not even factoring in the positive impact that Dority's offensive threat and presence would have in Rowdy getting more open looks thus increasing his scoring output and Kevin getting more space to work withing underneath as defenses cant sag back playing off Buggs.
I share some of the frustrations of watching Erik playbut then I see him do things that no one else can do--period. LaVonte is not nearly as quick as Erik, for one. In looking at this years statistics, there are only three players who have more assists than turnovers--Ryan (barely), Matt and Erik. He has 62 assts to 47 tos versus Dority with 21 assts and 22 tos. At the same time Erik has 27 steals to 11 for Dority.
Yes, he can't shoot, we all know that but-------------who was guarding Ray yesterday?? Who drove the length of the floor last year to win at the last second? Erik is a much better passer than Dority. If you just look at one short coming, in Erik's case, shooting, then how would you view Kevin's play if you only looked at assts to tos? He is the worst on the team by far, with 10 assts to 37 tos.
Congrats on the win. Your team never quit and mine fell apart. I have great respect for your team and school. I am not a kid but an older alum of Detroit who has always traveled to the ARC and seen almost every game between our schools since you joined the HL.
I'm not one for excuses. We folded and you came on and yes it was painful but its only a game. I spoke to Coach Drew after the game and offered my congratulations. I look forward to coming to VU next month for the next chapter.
I know there's been some crap between our younger fans and all but I think I'm a classy person and though disappointed, I say again, your team played hard and congrats on the win.
I also hope Coach Homer and his wife are doing well. Always enjoyed speaking with him on my visits to Valpo.
See you next month.
My personal opinion is that buggs is lightyears better than dority. He has the ability to dribble out of trouble. When dority gets doubled...he's a sitting duck. Buggs has huge upside. He is going to work on his shot, and I bet we see him hit some 3 pointers next time out. Buggs can also finsih must better at the rim. Buggs can always beat you because of his speed. Something dority doesn't have. Could dority beat buggs at an arm wrestling match...yes but buggs is the best point gaurd in the city of valpo
Thanks for being a class act, Reg. All best and come down to V-town for the rematch...
Quote from: truth219 on January 18, 2013, 03:42:58 PMMy personal opinion is that buggs is lightyears better than dority. He has the ability to dribble out of trouble. When dority gets doubled...he's a sitting duck. Buggs has huge upside. He is going to work on his shot, and I bet we see him hit some 3 pointers next time out. Buggs can also finsih must better at the rim. Buggs can always beat you because of his speed. Something dority doesn't have. Could dority beat buggs at an arm wrestling match...yes but buggs is the best point gaurd in the city of valpo
If Buggs is the answer at point guard, then someone please explain to me why the fans have been so upset and frustrated with turnovers, offensive flow and rhythm of the offense. That is the point guard's main job...ball security and offensive flow. So, if Bugg's, the point guard, is not primarily responsible for these issues, then who? No one has denied these issues exist. So, who is to blame for the team's unacceptable turnover rate and offensive flow issues all season and what solutions can be offered to fix? ??? ??? ???
Quote from: TitanReg on January 18, 2013, 03:30:03 PM
Congrats on the win. Your team never quit and mine fell apart. I have great respect for your team and school. I am not a kid but an older alum of Detroit who has always traveled to the ARC and seen almost every game between our schools since you joined the HL.
I'm not one for excuses. We folded and you came on and yes it was painful but its only a game. I spoke to Coach Drew after the game and offered my congratulations. I look forward to coming to VU next month for the next chapter.
I know there's been some crap between our younger fans and all but I think I'm a classy person and though disappointed, I say again, your team played hard and congrats on the win.
I also hope Coach Homer and his wife are doing well. Always enjoyed speaking with him on my visits to Valpo.
See you next month.
I remember how down I was feeling the day after we threw the Oakland game away in somewhat similar fashion. I wasn't so magnanimous as to go on their board and congratulate them for what I considered at the time to be a gift. My hat is off to you, Reg. Like you, I can't wait till the next battle on 2/16. The ARC should be rocking!
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 18, 2013, 03:10:27 PMApples and oranges, my friend. Get some tempo-free stats and then we can talk.
Kindly and respectfully disagree my good friend..........
Quote from: Valposter on January 18, 2013, 04:26:42 PMQuote from: truth219 on January 18, 2013, 03:42:58 PMMy personal opinion is that buggs is lightyears better than dority. He has the ability to dribble out of trouble. When dority gets doubled...he's a sitting duck. Buggs has huge upside. He is going to work on his shot, and I bet we see him hit some 3 pointers next time out. Buggs can also finsih must better at the rim. Buggs can always beat you because of his speed. Something dority doesn't have. Could dority beat buggs at an arm wrestling match...yes but buggs is the best point gaurd in the city of valpo
If Buggs is the answer at point guard, then someone please explain to me why the fans have been so upset and frustrated with turnovers, offensive flow and rhythm of the offense. That is the point guard's main job...ball security and offensive flow. So, if Bugg's, the point guard, is not primarily responsible for these issues, then who? No one has denied these issues exist. So, who is to blame for the team's unacceptable turnover rate and offensive flow issues all season and what solutions can be offered to fix? ??? ??? ???
I think the reason we turn the ball over so much is because all our gaurds are mediocre...buggs is the best point gaurd and kenney is the best 2 gaurd but then it gets bad. Dority bogans boggs are all blah...they have some moments but really aren't special. Let's be honest rowdy and kvw are the only two people you can build a team around, everyone else is just role players. Kenney is pretty solid. Bogans is having a bad year. I wish everyone on our team developed like rowdy and kvw. When kevin was a sophomore...I was like who is this dufuss that fouls a lot and falls on the court a lot. By the end of that year nothing changed except he had an incredible ability to make off balanced shots. Then last year he was a beast. And rowdys game has just been unreal. Everyone else hasn't improved much at all. Lol my dad made a comment to me today while I was helping him at his house. He said...the guys that bryce has brought in aren't as good as his ol mans.....I said give bryce time, and although I disagree I don't think anyone has went beyond out expectations. This team just lacks talent at the point. Its true and very frustrating. Why do you think bryce keeps recruiting them. Dority isn't as good as I thought he would be, but at least he's an option. Buggs does come alive for the big moments and his free throw shooting was solid in detroit
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 18, 2013, 06:53:37 AMI can't find it!!! Someone help.
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index)
You will see 3 tabs that say Live Now/Upcoming/Replay. Click on the "Replay" tab. Under a category that says "Sports and Shows" is a drop down menu that lists the sports that ESPN covers. It should default to "All." Click on "basketball." Scroll down to the game that says Valparaiso vs. Detroit and click on it. It should open up a new screen that loads up the game.
Valpo also turns it over a lot because they seem to like to jump when they pass the ball.
A lot of things Buggs does--shut down the opposing guard--can't show up in stats.
But some things do.
I will give you that Dority is a better offensive player (ORtg 101.5 to 88.2, where 100 is average).
BUT the same things I outlined in my Dority breakdown before the year are true. Dority is better at the stripe (84% to 52.5%) and behind the line (30% to 11.1%), but in 2-pt land, it seems like Dority's always getting blocked...because he is. He's 23-54: 42.6%. Buggs at least is 55.6% (35-63). Hate to cite myself (but I will):
QuoteEither way...given that Buggs is 49 / 24 / 44 for his career, let's hope Dority's a better shooter, and although smaller sample size caveats apply, let me repeat that at USF he shot 23 / 50 / 100 in starter's minutes and 27 / 39 / 100 career. I know–let's have LaVonte shoot everything from outside the arc and at the stripe, and Erik everything else!
And I *thought* Dority was a lot better at getting to the line, but he's not really: just a little (FT rate 53.1 to 49.3). It's his better-at-making-FTs that makes it seem like more of a disparity. But eFG% is actually in Buggs' favor, 46.9 to 43.6!
Buggs gets 50% more rebounds, 40% more assists--and has a 40% better AST-to-TO ratio, so complaints about TOs don't really apply (they both average 2.6 TOs a game). He's clutch, time and again (Kent State, Detroit, etc., etc.) More steals, etc. And finally, because he was supposedly the weight dragging down the comeback, or a liability with turnovers, Buggs is actually
21st in the nation in # of plus/minus games (all but one this year)! He's ahead of Rowdy in that stat too.
The big thing Buggs had was that he was 5.18 pf/40 last year, more than 50% worse than Dority, but he has trimmed that to 4.3 this year, not great but better.
I like Dority, don't get me wrong, but he's not the right guy to initiate the offense and key the defense. Hopefully next year he will be. He's invaluable to have in that he's a shot-taker (if not a shot-maker yet); yesterday when Broekhoff sat, we were ok because Dority was a creator on offense. We don't have anyone else who does that.
I suppose the apples-to-oranges crack works in another way: they, like these two guards, are not mutually exclusive. Playing them together is actually a pretty good card to play.
compare them yourself: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?p2=lavonte-dority&p1=erik-buggs (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?p2=lavonte-dority&p1=erik-buggs)
Quote from: HC on January 18, 2013, 09:31:22 PM
Valpo also turns it over a lot because they seem to like to jump when they pass the ball.
Totally agree.....very good observation! Violation of a cardinal rule. I have seen that a lot and it often leads to turnovers!
Quote from: truth219 on January 18, 2013, 05:24:06 PM
I think the reason we turn the ball over so much is because all our gaurds are mediocre...buggs is the best point gaurd and kenney is the best 2 gaurd but then it gets bad. Dority bogans boggs are all blah...they have some moments but really aren't special. Let's be honest rowdy and kvw are the only two people you can build a team around, everyone else is just role players. Kenney is pretty solid. Bogans is having a bad year. I wish everyone on our team developed like rowdy and kvw. When kevin was a sophomore...I was like who is this dufuss that fouls a lot and falls on the court a lot. By the end of that year nothing changed except he had an incredible ability to make off balanced shots. Then last year he was a beast. And rowdys game has just been unreal. Everyone else hasn't improved much at all. Lol my dad made a comment to me today while I was helping him at his house. He said...the guys that bryce has brought in aren't as good as his ol mans.....I said give bryce time, and although I disagree I don't think anyone has went beyond out expectations. This team just lacks talent at the point. Its true and very frustrating. Why do you think bryce keeps recruiting them. Dority isn't as good as I thought he would be, but at least he's an option. Buggs does come alive for the big moments and his free throw shooting was solid in detroit
Maybe this is a good assessment. We just lack talent overall in the back court and no combination is really going to carry the day
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 18, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
A lot of things Buggs does--shut down the opposing guard--can't show up in stats.
But some things do.
I will give you that Dority is a better offensive player (ORtg 101.5 to 88.2, where 100 is average).
BUT the same things I outlined in my Dority breakdown before the year are true. Dority is better at the stripe (84% to 52.5%) and behind the line (30% to 11.1%), but in 2-pt land, it seems like Dority's always getting blocked...because he is. He's 23-54: 42.6%. Buggs at least is 55.6% (35-63). Hate to cite myself (but I will):
QuoteEither way...given that Buggs is 49 / 24 / 44 for his career, let's hope Dority's a better shooter, and although smaller sample size caveats apply, let me repeat that at USF he shot 23 / 50 / 100 in starter's minutes and 27 / 39 / 100 career. I know–let's have LaVonte shoot everything from outside the arc and at the stripe, and Erik everything else!
And I *thought* Dority was a lot better at getting to the line, but he's not really: just a little (FT rate 53.1 to 49.3). It's his better-at-making-FTs that makes it seem like more of a disparity. But eFG% is actually in Buggs' favor, 46.9 to 43.6!
Buggs gets 50% more rebounds, 40% more assists--and has a 40% better AST-to-TO ratio, so complaints about TOs don't really apply (they both average 2.6 TOs a game). He's clutch, time and again (Kent State, Detroit, etc., etc.) More steals, etc. And finally, because he was supposedly the weight dragging down the comeback, or a liability with turnovers, Buggs is actually 21st in the nation in # of plus/minus games (all but one this year)! He's ahead of Rowdy in that stat too.
The big thing Buggs had was that he was 5.18 pf/40 last year, more than 50% worse than Dority, but he has trimmed that to 4.3 this year, not great but better.
I like Dority, don't get me wrong, but he's not the right guy to initiate the offense and key the defense. Hopefully next year he will be. He's invaluable to have in that he's a shot-taker (if not a shot-maker yet); yesterday when Broekhoff sat, we were ok because Dority was a creator on offense. We don't have anyone else who does that.
I suppose the apples-to-oranges crack works in another way: they, like these two guards, are not mutually exclusive. Playing them together is actually a pretty good card to play.
compare them yourself: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?p2=lavonte
-dority&p1=erik-buggs (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?p2=lavonte-dority&p1=erik-buggs)
I definitely think that on a team with few scoring options that Dority needs to play more. If that means teaming with Buggs in the back court more often to make that happen, so be it. Let's try it and see how it works. Maybe that proves to be an effective combination.
Quote from: HC on January 18, 2013, 09:31:22 PM
Valpo also turns it over a lot because they seem to like to jump when they pass the ball.
Ditto
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 18, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
I like Dority, don't get me wrong, but he's not the right guy to initiate the offense and key the defense. Hopefully next year he will be.
Hopefully, next year Dority will be playing the two position when Carter eventually comes aboard as the point guard initiating the offense
Quote from: valpopal on January 19, 2013, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 18, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
I like Dority, don't get me wrong, but he's not the right guy to initiate the offense and key the defense. Hopefully next year he will be.
Hopefully, next year Dority will be playing the two position when Carter eventually comes aboard as the point guard initiating the offense
It's a shame we don't have a point guard the caliber of Carter to plug into this year's team. I would love to see Carter, Dority, Kevin and Rowdy on the court at the same time. Dynamic scoring potential. Scoring droughts would be minimized.
Quote from: FWalum on January 18, 2013, 11:44:50 PMQuote from: HC on January 18, 2013, 10:31:22 PM
Valpo also turns it over a lot because they seem to like to jump when they pass the ball.
Ditto
too many video games
Quote from: Valposter on January 19, 2013, 07:01:13 AM
It's a shame we don't have a point guard the caliber of Carter to plug into this year's team. ....
Didn't we think Dority was going to "change everything"... Dority is a great player to add and has been fun to watch. Maybe we should not build up our expectations too much. Carter is a kid with awesome potential but he is young. In fact, we will have a lot of young players trying to learn how to play at the college level.
(Also - I am not in the "Buggs haters" camp. I think his ability to run the team is obvious. Bryce tried having others run the team. Anyone that can't appreciate what he brings to this team is watching games through their "hater" lens.)
Quote from: Valposter on January 19, 2013, 07:01:13 AM
Quote from: valpopal on January 19, 2013, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 18, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
I like Dority, don't get me wrong, but he's not the right guy to initiate the offense and key the defense. Hopefully next year he will be.
Hopefully, next year Dority will be playing the two position when Carter eventually comes aboard as the point guard initiating the offense
It's a shame we don't have a point guard the caliber of Carter to plug into this year's team. I would love to see Carter, Dority, Kevin and Rowdy on the court at the same time. Dynamic scoring potential. Scoring droughts would be minimized.
on the bright side, it gives us the potential for more scoring to replace what we're going to be losing in rowdy, kevin, and matt kenney next year. i know we have four prolific scorers at the high school level coming in next year, but there's no way to guarantee that all four of them will continue to put up anything close to those kinds of numbers next year. wouldn't surprise me if next year's team takes a while to come together with all the turnover that we're going to see.
Quote from: truth219 on January 18, 2013, 05:24:06 PM(Also - I am not in the "Buggs haters" camp. I think his ability to run the team is obvious. Bryce tried having others run the team. Anyone that can't appreciate what he brings to this team is watching games through their "hater" lens.)
Quote from: truth219 on January 18, 2013, 05:24:06 PM(Also - I am not in the "Buggs haters" camp. I think his ability to run the team is obvious. Bryce tried having others run the team. Anyone that can't appreciate what he brings to this team is watching games through their "hater" lens.)
Quote from: Smj on January 19, 2013, 10:20:51 AM(Also - I am not in the "Buggs haters" camp. I think his ability to run the team is obvious. Bryce tried having others run the team. Anyone that can't appreciate what he brings to this team is watching games through their "hater" lens.)
I am not a "Buggs-hater", I am a "Valpo-lover". I want Valpo to make March Madness and make a difference once there.
Any coach will tell you that he judges his team's point guard play significantly on Turnovers and Assists. (If a point guard can score that's a bonus, but we know Buggs can't shoot or score, so we won't even address that). But getting back to Assists and Turnovers. Let's take a look:
These are Horizon League Team Statistics through 1/17/13 with HL teams Stack Ranked:
HL Turnovers Per Game:
1) UIC 10.7
2) Detroit 11.5
3) YSU 12.3
4) WSU 12.9
5) Loyola 12.9
6) GB 13.9
7) Mil 14.8
8) CSU 14.9
9) Valpo 15.6
HL Total Turnovers (TO):
1) UIC 192
2) Detroit 207
3) YSU 209
4) WSU 220
5) Loyola 220
6) GB 242
7) Mil 266
8) CSU 284
9) Valpo 296
Out of 9 Horizon League basketball teams, Valpo is ranked:
Valpo 9th in Turnovers Per Game
Valpo 9th in Total Turnovers
Valpo 9th in Turnover Margin
Valpo 8th in Assists/Turnover Ratio
These are all point guard-driven stats. These are not good stats AT ALL. These numbers indicate two things:
1) We have one of the worst point guards in the HL.
2) We have one of the worst overall backcourts in the HL.
It is a huge testament to Rowdy and Kevin that we are competing for the HL lead in the standings to this point in the season. But
Valpo has a huge uphill climb to win the Horizon League Tournament with the stats and rankings anywhere close to the above, and these stats are point guard-driven. Any coach will tell you that. Again, it is really a testament to Kevin and Rowdy that we are winning in spite of our point guard and overall guard play.I am a Valpo fan, not a hater of anyone. I want Valpo to win the HL Tourny and make the Big Dance. They have the front court to do it, but the backcourt is playing poorly overall (and that especially includes the point guard.....he affects these numbers more than any other guard on the team). The above stats are going to make ultimate success difficult, and the above stats need to get SIGNIFICANTLY better and they are driven by the point guard. If Buggs isn't going to score (and clearly he isn't) then he needs to AT LEAST get us out of LAST PLACE in league Assist and Turnover numbers......period!!!!!!!!!!I will not put all of the blame on Buggs as none of our guards are getting the job done. But you can't look at the numbers above and say that: Buggs isn't scoring, and he has Valpo in last in the league in assists and turnovers, but hey, he is fantastic and doing a great job or even a good job!!! (But that seems to be the sentiment of everyone responding on this thread).
If this doesn't make my point, then I give up. I just hope Buggs takes Valpo where we all want them to go. Rowdy and Kevin deserve it. That's all I'm saying.
Within league-only play, Valpo leads the league in assists and is fourth in assist/turnover ratio, with more assists than turnovers.
:clap:
Assist/turnover for the whole team is not a way to defend a position that our pg stinks. Our 2 pg average just over 5 t/o per game and give out 6 assists....not good, but the rest of the team gives it up 11 times and assists only 7 per game. While our pg a/t ratio isn't good, the rest of the team is much worse.
Certainly room to improve and as vusupporter stated, they are getting better every time out.
Quote from: vusupporter on January 19, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
Within league-only play, Valpo leads the league in assists and is fourth in assist/turnover ratio, with more assists than turnovers.
Small sample size. Looking at entire season much more representative.
Quote from: Valposter on January 19, 2013, 06:31:13 PM
Quote from: vusupporter on January 19, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
Within league-only play, Valpo leads the league in assists and is fourth in assist/turnover ratio, with more assists than turnovers.
Small sample size. Looking at entire season much more representative.
Totally disagree... Non conference is when teams try different line ups and players that never play together.
Quote from: Smj on January 19, 2013, 06:35:50 PM
Quote from: Valposter on January 19, 2013, 06:31:13 PM
Quote from: vusupporter on January 19, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
Within league-only play, Valpo leads the league in assists and is fourth in assist/turnover ratio, with more assists than turnovers.
Small sample size. Looking at entire season much more representative.
Totally disagree... Non conference is when teams try different line ups and players that never play together.
I'm with you on this. Sure it would have been nice to win them all and play like we had five all americans, but it didn't happen. What counts now is how we play in conference and hopefully beyond. If we are improving that is all that matters.
Quote from: vu72 on January 19, 2013, 06:41:46 PM
Quote from: Smj on January 19, 2013, 06:35:50 PM
Quote from: Valposter on January 19, 2013, 06:31:13 PM
Quote from: vusupporter on January 19, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
Within league-only play, Valpo leads the league in assists and is fourth in assist/turnover ratio, with more assists than turnovers.
Small sample size. Looking at entire season much more representative.
Totally disagree... Non conference is when teams try different line ups and players that never play together.
I'm with you on this. Sure it would have been nice to win them all and play like we had five all americans, but it didn't happen. What counts now is how we play in conference and hopefully beyond. If we are improving that is all that matters.
Also strength of schedule varies drastically from team to team. At least sos evens out during conference play