Poll
Question:
Do you think Vashil will be back this season
Option 1: Yes
votes: 19
Option 2: No
votes: 13
Since there has been tons of talk about Vashil coming back or not and nobody really knows it'll be interesting to see what the general consensus is out there on whether or not he'll be suiting up in brown & gold for another season.
I'm going with a yes, because a rumor like this does no one any good if it is false. And in the past, when things like this popped up and were actually untrue, Mark or someone either posted the truth or found some way to squash it. Nothing like that has happened over the last 2+ months. That prompts me to believe that things are happening and that he will play.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 21, 2015, 05:52:54 PMThat prompts me to believe that things are happening and that he will play.
And hopefully for us! Not for a graduate transfer team.
Despite my earlier comments on this to the negative I was swayed by what appeared to be a lot of circumstantial evidence that Vashil was coming back. However, in the last couple of weeks I have begun to slip back to the negative side because the silence from the program has been deafening. I can't think of one really good reason for him to come back unless his wife has unfinished commitments in the area. I know everyone thinks he will continue to improve with another years experience, but the guy really doesn't need basketball does he? It certainly appears, from all we know from his academic accomplishments, that he could get a good stable job making nearly as much or more than he would gallivanting around some foreign countries with a young family. I would like for him to come back for selfish reasons, but I am on the fence right now as to what will happen.
If the opportunity for Vashil to come back does indeed present itself, I don't see why he wouldn't agree to come back. I would imagine his basketball goal is to make it to the NBA, which right now are very slim and if he comes back another season and keeps improving those odds go up.
I'm not saying he's NBA material because very few players are but his chances do increase with another college season, especially if he keeps improving.
What does he have to lose? If he wants he can play in Europe now or next season. There was without a doubt he was a crowd favorite and a student favorite on campus.
difficult topic. ... don't get me wrong - I loved watching him play last year and his progress was actually quite staggering. ... however, if it takes another players spot I say he should not play - commitments were already made to other players.
Quote from: classof2014 on July 22, 2015, 09:14:00 AMIf the opportunity for Vashil to come back does indeed present itself, I don't see why he wouldn't agree to come back.
Did you read my post?? I will name a few...
Bridget - New Wife
Maia - New Daughter
Lots of travel in a foreign country most likely with out New Family
Master's degree in International Commerce & Policy
Potentially good stable job in his chosen field
I think you are assuming that his dream is to play in the NBA. Is it?
Quote from: FWalum on July 22, 2015, 10:15:12 AM
Quote from: classof2014 on July 22, 2015, 09:14:00 AMIf the opportunity for Vashil to come back does indeed present itself, I don't see why he wouldn't agree to come back.
Did you read my post?? I will name a few...
Bridget - New Wife
Maia - New Daughter
Lots of travel in a foreign country most likely with out New Family
Master's degree in International Commerce & Policy
Potentially good stable job in his chosen field
I think you are assuming that his dream is to play in the NBA. Is it?
I would imagine it is his dream to play in the NBA, the potential to make millions is there in the NBA, will he get to that level if indeed he is NBA material is slim but the opportunities to go into international business will be there a year from now. Also if Vashil does peruse a career in international business he'll most likely need to travel a lot anyways.
Obviously the only one that truly knows whether or not Vashil will be back is Vashil, who knows if he's even made a decision. I don't know what are Vashil's career aspirations, is it to be a businessman or play professional basketball, either one is a great option.
I would say that the only entity who knows whether Vashil is coming back would be the NCAA, not as much Vashil ;). If he applied for another year, the assumption is that he would take it, if granted.
Relvao is going to be way too good for us to lose him for vashil just for 1 year.
I agree with Valpofan00.....
Me too.
He's going to be back. It's a matter of time before it's announced.
If we have the opportunity to bring back the defensive player of the year you do what you can to bring him back. The season is long and well worth having to tell someone else they have to move on. If smits gets injured we are screwed without Vashil.
To me it would have to be Davidson. Great kid but not not a D1 player. Just find a way to help him with academic $ if he wants to finish here. It's not unethical but a reality of how life works.
Earlier in this discussion someone (sorry, don't recall who) made the point that if Vashil has in fact been granted another year, that means that the NCAA has righted a wrong in having declared him ineligible his first year. That said, the wrong isnt righted unless and until the Athletic department offers him a scholarship for another year. As the poster noted the obligation to Vashil should take precedence here. I'm hard pressed to disagree.
Quote from: wh on July 23, 2015, 06:46:53 PM
Earlier in this discussion someone (sorry, don't recall who) made the point that if Vashil has in fact been granted another year, that means that the NCAA has righted a wrong in having declared him ineligible his first year. That said, the wrong isnt righted unless and until the Athletic department offers him a scholarship for another year. As the poster noted the obligation to Vashil should take precedence here.
I'm wondering what the proper definition of "obligation" may be. I'm relatively sure that Vashil's schooling costs were paid while he was deemed ineligible. If I'm correct, didn't we pay for four years of college? If so, what is the additional obligation owed?
Way out thought. Based on a positive appeal and Vashil being granted that lost year. Why would the university then have to dump a credentialed scholarship player to make room for him? That would be an unfair penalty on any young man who drew the short straw. Might this be a precedent for a temporary (one year only) 14th scholarship or a red-shirted year on scholarship?
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 23, 2015, 11:13:34 PM
Way out thought. Based on a positive appeal and Vashil being granted that lost year. Why would the university then have to dump a credentialed scholarship player to make room for him? That would be an unfair penalty on any young man who drew the short straw. Might this be a precedent for a temporary (one year only) 14th scholarship or a red-shirted year on scholarship?
Not far out at all. In fact it makes perfect sense - so much so that I'm now wondering if the reason we haven't heard anything official is the athletic department is making that very appeal to the NCAA.
And the NCAA taking it own sweet time. :-\
I've got an easy solution to the 13th scholarship. Redshirt Davidson. He gets to practice with the team, keeps his scholarship for the year and frees up the 13th slot for Vashil. It's really not that hard.
Redshirts count against the scholarship limit.
Quote from: vusupporter on July 24, 2015, 09:09:44 AM
Redshirts count against the scholarship limit.
Yep. That is why they need to appeal for a I year waiver for the 14th slot.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 23, 2015, 11:13:34 PMWay out thought. Based on a positive appeal and Vashil being granted that lost year. Why would the university then have to dump a credentialed scholarship player to make room for him? That would be an unfair penalty on any young man who drew the short straw. Might this be a precedent for a temporary (one year only) 14th scholarship or a red-shirted year on scholarship?
I have never heard of the NCAA granting an extra scholarship. Can't see any basis for doing so.
What about this scenario. Davidson gives up his scholarship, walks on and is redshirted. He finishes his degree on his own dime (don't know how many hours he needs, maybe minimum?). Then next year he returns to team on scholarship and does first year of grad school. Possible?
Quote from: nkvu on July 24, 2015, 04:13:03 PM
What about this scenario. Davidson gives up his scholarship, walks on and is redshirted. He finishes his degree on his own dime (don't know how many hours he needs, maybe minimum?). Then next year he returns to team on scholarship and does first year of grad school. Possible?
I don't quite have the details at my command. But I think someone covered a scenario like this (but maybe thinking particularly of a player with an NBA dad) in another thread. Somehow even taking an official visit, let alone having year or two on scholarship, makes you ineligible for this plan?
I seem to recall that athletic scholarships are granted one year at a time. So next year Davidson doesn't get one or any other financial aide. The following year he gets one. We know a player can not get a scholarship and still walk on. Stainbock did it at Xavier last year. So why couldn't Davidson walk on and redshirt? And what would prevent Valpo from giving him an athletic scholarship for one year following a walk on year? Xavier did it for Stainbock's brother. Of course now that I think about it Nick will only be a junior next year so if he's a walk on next year and gets his scholarship back for his senior year he would get a full ride for three out of four years. Not a full four year ride but still a pretty good deal if he really wants to finish his degree at Valpo without transferring. I mean Valpo has dropped scholarships for kids before when it became clear that they weren't as good as the other players even though they were great guys etc. At some point they have to decide if having Vashil back for one more year is worth more to the program than having Nick for two. A tough decision on a lot of levels but that's why Bryce and co. are paid the big bucks.
Of course, that's assuming Vashil can in fact come back for another year. Not saying what Valpo should do. Just speculating on what they could do.
For Davidson, it is possible but doubtful. How big are Valpo's graduate school programs?
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 24, 2015, 09:14:19 PM
For Davidson, it is possible but doubtful. How big are Valpo's graduate school programs?
Pretty big and growing. As an example, in Nick's chosen field of nursing, you now can gain both a Masters and a Phd from Valpo. Here is the graduate school site:
http://www.valpo.edu/grad/Program/programs/index.php (http://www.valpo.edu/grad/Program/programs/index.php)
Quote from: nkvu on July 24, 2015, 07:26:03 PMAt some point they have to decide if having Vashil back for one more year is worth more to the program than having Nick for two.
Actually it's about the message it sends to the Nick Davidson level recruit who is choosing between Valpo and a Summit or OVC school. The kind of kid who steps up when there is injury or may have a senior year that makes the difference between a 18 win season or a 14 win season. The kid of kid who may be concerned that his scholarship may be pulled because some other kid at a Southeastern Conference program decides to transfer.
No offense to a player the quality of Nick but why not recruit stronger players. No matter what Vashil's potential 4th season would be much greater than Nick's potential to be a sub his senior year. Vashil can do something historic this upcoming season and would definitely help the transitioning for our next group of bigs in Smits and Relvao. The best we're looking at for a quality player like Nick is being a regular sub his senior season while Vashil could easily break many records at Valpo and help put Valpo over the edge to become a national championship contender.
Quote from: nkvu on July 24, 2015, 07:26:03 PMI seem to recall that athletic scholarships are granted one year at a time. So next year Davidson doesn't get one or any other financial aide. The following year he gets one. We know a player can not get a scholarship and still walk on. Stainbock did it at Xavier last year. So why couldn't Davidson walk on and redshirt? And what would prevent Valpo from giving him an athletic scholarship for one year following a walk on year? Xavier did it for Stainbock's brother.
I don't know the Xavier situation, and I'm basically making stuff up. But, yes, they're only given for a year at a time.
I could imagine, maybe perversely, that:
-)you can only walk-on if you weren't too far into the official scholarship recruitment process (no official visit?)
-)once you've had a scholarship, you're no longer allowed to walk-on; if they take away your scholarship, you're ineligible to play unless they give it back
Again, I'm mostly making this up. For a situation like D1 basketball where full scholarships the norm, it _does_ seem like you might reasonably want to prevent the athlete from getting yanked around. But, I do wonder how it might apply to other sports where partial scholarships are more common. It seems like you _might_ want the ability to adjust those year to year to respond to changing situations, evolving skills, etc. Sort of a carrot to work hard, like a salary increase or bonus in the private sector But, maybe that kind of "yanking around" is prohibited for partial scholarship sports too. *shrug*
If anyone actually knows, I am a bit curious how all this works. Probably there's an NCAA guidebook?
Davidson was a multi-sport athlete growing up so why not have swimming offer him a scholarship and he can maintain walk-on status with basketball? He'd probably be one of VU's best swimmers. Win-win situation.
Unfortunately, this will not work either. I remember a story a few years back at my alma mater, the University of Akron. The football team was struggling with their kicker while one of the scholarship players on the soccer team had an accurate cannon of a leg. JD Brookhart (the football coach at that time) invited the soccer player to practice with the team and he actually kicked a few field goals during games that year.
The NCAA forced Akron to count that player towards the football scholarships (not soccer) even though he was a third year letter winner and soccer scholarship holder. I think the rule says that multisport athletes will count towards the more popular sport they play. [size=78%] [/size]
I'm reading all this with interest because I think you guys can be really good this year, and the Horizon needs a) a ranked team (haven't had one since Butler left the league); b) a second NCAA bid (none since 2009); and c) an NCAA tournament win (none since 2011).
The NCAA requires schools to make grant in aid renewals (or better put, denials for returning players) by July 1. It is permissible to add a student after that date. So if (e.g.) Davidson was notified he's got a scholarship, he's got a scholarship this year, and it counts against the limit. But maybe they told him, per the above, that his scholarship was not renewed; they could still give him one if it turns out that Vashil doesn't come back. NCAA Rule 15.3.5.1. Also, if a player gets aid based solely on his academic performance at the school (that is, what he's done at Valpo, not high school tests or anything) he doesn't have to be counted. In addition to the school award, he must have at least a 3.0 at the institution. 15.5.1.1.1. How good a student is Davidson?
If a player was awarded a scholarship for the coming season but voluntarily leaves the team before the first day of fall classes, he doesn't count against the scholarship limit. 15.5.1.4.
If you were recruited for football, you count for football. If you were recruited for basketball, you count for basketball, unless you count for football. So Valpo can't stash Davidson on the swim team. 15.5.9.2.
I suppose the NCAA can waive any rule it wants if it wants, but the manual doesn't have any specific provision for an institution to get a waiver on the number of scholarships.
All of this speculation about Davidson is pointless. He's a scholarship member of the team. He's not going anywhere.
Quote from: Pgmado on July 26, 2015, 02:31:23 PM
All of this speculation about Davidson is pointless. He's a scholarship member of the team. He's not going anywhere.
We all know that! It's just us using our imagination and creativity during the long off season!! When will you give us the actual answer???
Quote from: vu72 on July 26, 2015, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: Pgmado on July 26, 2015, 02:31:23 PM
All of this speculation about Davidson is pointless. He's a scholarship member of the team. He's not going anywhere.
We all know that! It's just us using our imagination and creativity during the long off season!! When will you give us the actual answer???
About three minutes after I find out the actual answer. You'd think after two seasons of True Detective I'd be able to figure this out.
You suppose we'll get something vaguely official, like a roster for the Canada trip? Or are we going to be scouring photos and the like?
Should we post someone at the ARC around departure time? ;)
I suppose open gym is happening, do we know if Vashil's even playing? If he's playing, that doesn't prove anything. But, if he's _not_ playing that'd be highly suggestive...
(Nice to hear, a couple of weeks back, that Rowdy had been playing with Robbie Hummel in Chicago; not sure if he made it back to campus.)
Quote from: agibson on July 27, 2015, 11:21:04 AMI suppose open gym is happening, do we know if Vashil's even playing? If he's playing, that doesn't prove anything. But, if he's _not_ playing that'd be highly suggestive...
I've been told (and I think wh reported here) that Vashil is playing in the open gym sessions. That is a known. As you stated, it doesn't prove he is back. I remember seeing Corey Johnson playing in open gym before heading to Europe to play professionally after his final Valpo season.
Today is the beginning of boys basketball camp at the ARC. Registered our grandson and hung around til it started.
--- Didn't see Vashil.
--- Saw Scara and AP standing side by side. Could have been the angle, but David looked every bit as tall as Alec, maybe even a half inch taller. I'll not be surprised to see David listed at 6-9 this year.
--- Speaking of size, no one has stretched the tape measure on Derrik Smits. He towers over everyone. Every bit of 7 foot.
Quote from: wh on July 27, 2015, 12:29:50 PM
Today is the beginning of boys basketball camp at the ARC. Registered our grandson and hung around til it started.
--- Didn't see Vashil.
Vashil sighting: I saw Vashil there playing and coaching during the camp activities.
Quote from: valpopal on July 27, 2015, 01:10:39 PMVashil sighting: I saw Vashil there playing and coaching during the camp activities.
I saw him on twitter, I guess today if it's the start of camp, getting dunked on/over by EVic.
Didn't someone recently post a comment that we should know the "official roster" on the 29th? Then we would know if Vashil is playing or not? Has anyone heard anything or a hint of anything?
Quote from: valpo64 on July 29, 2015, 02:00:11 PM
Didn't someone recently post a comment that we should know the "official roster" on the 29th? Then we would know if Vashil is playing or not? Has anyone heard anything or a hint of anything?
I've not seen anything. They leave on the 8th and have ten days of practice which they certainly will use. That means this week and next week. Even if he is practicing it doesn't mean he is on the team. I don't think there is prohibition for non-team members to practice with the team. I guess we may not know unless he gets on the plane and then maybe he goes as a non-paid adviser so then we wouldn't know until the 9th when the first game is played. :crazy:
[tweet]626380709603577856[/tweet]
Quote from: vu72 on July 29, 2015, 02:40:39 PMten days of practice which they certainly will use. That means this week and next week.
Apparently starting last Sunday
[tweet]625814174241828864[/tweet]
Will we be able to watch the Canadian games online?
Quote from: Valpofan00 on July 29, 2015, 08:01:46 PM
Will we be able to watch the Canadian games online?
Nothing on the McGill University website for coverage yet.
http://www.mcgillathletics.ca/schedule.aspx?path=mbball (http://www.mcgillathletics.ca/schedule.aspx?path=mbball)
Nothing on the Carleton University website for video.
https://goravens.ca/teams/mens-basketball/schedule/ (https://goravens.ca/teams/mens-basketball/schedule/)
Apparently University of Ottawa was taken off the schedule. It no longer shows on Valpo's schedule or UOttawa Gee Gee's schedule.
https://www.geegees.ca/en/sports/teams/basketballm/schedule (https://www.geegees.ca/en/sports/teams/basketballm/schedule)
So far there is no indication that the games will be shown online but I wouldn't give up looking right up till the games.
Interesting that uOttawa is relaunching men's hockey as a sport in September 2016. I could see that in the United States but it seems strange in Canada. Unless it has to do with all the junior pro leagues in hockey in Canada.
https://www.geegees.ca/en/sports/teams/mhockey/news/relaunch-of-gee-gees-varsity-men%E2%80%99s-hockey-program-new-head-coach-hired (https://www.geegees.ca/en/sports/teams/mhockey/news/relaunch-of-gee-gees-varsity-men%E2%80%99s-hockey-program-new-head-coach-hired)
The Ottawa game's still listed at
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/schedule/#.Vbpeabft3RA (http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/schedule/#.Vbpeabft3RA)
Paul Oren tweets that there's VU press availability Friday night, he's expecting answers then.
Vashil is officially back!
[tweet]626807478647431168[/tweet]
https://www.facebook.com/valpoathletics?fref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/valpoathletics?fref=nf)
"Stay tuned..." w/link to Vashil Youtube video.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK2eYVULxo4&feature=youtu.be#)
Paul Oren reports everybody but Relvao on campus, and Relvao wasn't expected anyway because of national team duty. So, now I guess the questions is, are we stashing and/or losing Relvao? Or did we manage to get permission for somebody to pay their own way, or an (unprecedented?) scholarship exception, or something?
Now that it is official:
[tweet]626811214904078336[/tweet]
And the "treat it's like a game report due on deadline, write it in advance" award goes to Paul Oren
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/vashil-fernandez-returning-to-valparaiso/article_7be79b80-36cc-11e5-b09d-1fefdd420613.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/vashil-fernandez-returning-to-valparaiso/article_7be79b80-36cc-11e5-b09d-1fefdd420613.html)
Quote from: agibson on July 30, 2015, 12:49:39 PM
And the "treat it's like a game report due on deadline, write it in advance" award goes to Paul Oren
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/vashil-fernandez-returning-to-valparaiso/article_7be79b80-36cc-11e5-b09d-1fefdd420613.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/vashil-fernandez-returning-to-valparaiso/article_7be79b80-36cc-11e5-b09d-1fefdd420613.html)
One the one hand Paul's "expert witness" makes it sound like it'd be easy for one of the NBA sons to pay their own way, and that could have worked. On the other hand, he mentions multiple sources that seem to indicate someone's leaving the team, or "won't be joining the team for this season" with an announcement to come in hours or days... Fascinating.
Raitis can kiss his career blocks record goodbye lol.
I truly hope that Smits takes this as a positive to get better, and compete against a premier defensive player in practice for his FR year. This obviously helps our team immensely this next season, but it can do wonders for Smits development as well.
Quote from: agibson on July 30, 2015, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: agibson on July 30, 2015, 12:49:39 PM
And the "treat it's like a game report due on deadline, write it in advance" award goes to Paul Oren
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/vashil-fernandez-returning-to-valparaiso/article_7be79b80-36cc-11e5-b09d-1fefdd420613.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/vashil-fernandez-returning-to-valparaiso/article_7be79b80-36cc-11e5-b09d-1fefdd420613.html)
One the one hand Paul's "expert witness" makes it sound like it'd be easy for one of the NBA sons to pay their own way, and that could have worked. On the other hand, he mentions multiple sources that seem to indicate someone's leaving the team, or "won't be joining the team for this season" with an announcement to come in hours or days... Fascinating.
I really hope no one transfers...
I was contemplating it anyway, but does this mean I have to make plans to go to Detroit? *sigh* The championships March 8? Spring break for VU... but VCS in session surely. Will have to tread carefully with the fam. First round NCAA tournament game's always going to be tricky, so might be as close as I get... until the second/third round!
Quote from: agibson on July 30, 2015, 12:59:37 PMFirst round NCAA tournament game's always going to be tricky, so might be as close as I get... until the second/third round!
Hmm.. St. Louis? Des Moines? Louisville? Or, hey, now that the NCAA likes to keep teams close to home, why not Chicago for the Sweet 16? United Center baby!
Some quotes from the VU official release (no, the Youtube release wasn't the official one)
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2015-16/14750/vashil-fernandez-granted-fourth-season-of-athletic-eligibility-will-return-to-valpo/#.Vbpk3Lft3RA (http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2015-16/14750/vashil-fernandez-granted-fourth-season-of-athletic-eligibility-will-return-to-valpo/#.Vbpk3Lft3RA)
Quote
"In January, the NCAA Leadership Council took action to grant NCAA staff temporary authority to consider extenuating circumstances and discretion when reviewing cases," said Kim Smith, Valparaiso University associate director of athletics for compliance. "Because of this temporary review process (TRP), the NCAA staff was willing to take another look at Vashil's case. As a freshman, Vashil was penalized one year of his eligibility - in addition to being ineligible for competition in his first year - due to the application of delayed enrollment legislation. With the help of the Horizon League staff, we were able to have Vashil's case reconsidered under TRP. The NCAA staff determined that Vashil's case was one that should be reviewed based on circumstances out of his control which ultimately, according to the NCAA, caused him to graduate late."
...
"I am excited to be back and I am excited to see all the good things that God has in store for me, my family and the Valpo basketball program over the next year," said Fernandez. "I am just trying to improve on last year, both individually and as a team, and do greater things than last season. I am first and foremost thankful to God, then the NCAA and Valparaiso University for giving me the opportunity to play my fourth year of college basketball."
...
"Vashil has made a huge impact on our campus since his arrival," said men's basketball head coach Bryce Drew. "He is as good an example of a student-athlete as can be found anywhere in the country. Our basketball program and Valparaiso University are elated to have him back."
Well Relvao is gone
[tweet]626816318961020933[/tweet]
I suppose you could follow twitter on your own, but think of this as a sort of permanent "while you were gone" ;)
Quote from: agibson on July 30, 2015, 12:43:39 PM
Paul Oren reports everybody but Relvao on campus, and Relvao wasn't expected anyway because of national team duty. So, now I guess the questions is, are we stashing and/or losing Relvao? Or did we manage to get permission for somebody to pay their own way, or an (unprecedented?) scholarship exception, or something?
Great news for Vashil and the team for this season!
I'm also wondering what is happening with the scholarship situation for the year, and Relvao for coming years.
So, one recruit for this season and none so far for next season.
Short term, this is great news. Long-term, maybe not so much.
Paul
Has Lexus been cleared to play yet? He won't be playing in the Canadian games correct?
Hopefully we get to revisit Relvao again post-Vashil. It sounded like he would have been a project, but had the capability to be another Vashil. Maybe he signed a European professional contract, due to the success he was having in the U20 tournament, and it made it easy for us to drop him as well?
Best Case Scenario:
Vashil continues to improve offensively and helps lead Valpo to the sweet 16. In the process he makes Smits better by giving him a big body to bang with every day in practice. Relvao goes to a JUCO and plays a ton of minutes and improves way more than he would have sitting on Valpo's bench. He still decides to come to VU and becomes a huge impact player by his Junior and Senior year.
Worst Case Scenario:
Our rose colored lenses about Vashil's potential improvement wear off quickly as we realize that Vashil is still a bit of an offensive liability. The new 30 second shot clock speeds up the game causing Vashil to be less effective on the defensive end. The Relvao decision scares away future recruits because they can't trust the program. Relvao becomes a star somewhere else.
I don't want to lose Relvao.... I have seen game videos and he is the real deal. good for vashil....
Guess I wasn't talking so crazy. Relvao is tough to give up but either way someone was going to get squeezed out of a scholarship. I figured no way it's Smits and it would have looked very bad to do a current player that way.
I don't get all of the Vashil "offensive liability" talk. How is a man that is coming back for an unexpected fourth season that lead our team in offensive rebounds, hustles his butt off on offense, knows his role on offense - how is this a liability?
Quote from: hoopfan22 on July 30, 2015, 03:01:07 PM
Guess I wasn't talking so crazy.
Great scoop. Congrats!
Quote from: valpotx on July 30, 2015, 01:53:40 PM, due to the success he was having in the U20 tournament
He apparently finished with a tourney-high 4 bpg! It's only U20, but...
just checked the Valpo
Athletic site where it says the NCAA has granted Vashil a 4th year!! GO VALPO!!
Paul's updated his blog post
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/vashil-fernandez-returning-to-valparaiso/article_7be79b80-36cc-11e5-b09d-1fefdd420613.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/vashil-fernandez-returning-to-valparaiso/article_7be79b80-36cc-11e5-b09d-1fefdd420613.html)
I think there's a proper news story posted now as well (and non-Valpo media twitter, and news sites, are starting to perk up).
From the blog
Quote
Sources have indicated that the hope is that Relvao will enroll at a JUCO and then join the Crusaders in the fall of 2016.
The fact that Relvao became the "expendable" player shows just how "all-in" Drew is going to go for this season.
Quote from: valpotx on July 30, 2015, 12:54:57 PMI truly hope that Smits takes this as a positive to get better, and compete against a premier defensive player in practice for his FR year. This obviously helps our team immensely this next season, but it can do wonders for Smits development as well.
[tweet]626890138203914241[/tweet]
Derrik gave this a retweet. I'll count it a good sign.
Valparaiso star center receives extra year of eligibility
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/30/valparaiso-star-center-receives-extra-year-of-eligibility/ (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/30/valparaiso-star-center-receives-extra-year-of-eligibility/)
Valparaiso already looked like one of the best mid-major teams in the country heading into next season, and they got better on Thursday.
Valparaiso makes it official: Vashil Fernandez granted final year
Chicago Tribune
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-st-0731-20150730-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-st-0731-20150730-story.html)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK2eYVULxo4#t=13 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK2eYVULxo4#t=13)
If I was Relvao, I wouldn't be at Valpo in the future. Most 18-19 year old kids will take this as a slight, not caring that the person coming back is a defensive star. It is an unfortunate circumstance, but it had to be someone. He will probably catch on somewhere else this year, and if not this year, he will earn a spot with a bigger program playing a year at JUCO.
Quote from: valpotx on July 31, 2015, 02:21:14 AM
If I was Relvao, I wouldn't be at Valpo in the future. Most 18-19 year old kids will take this as a slight, not caring that the person coming back is a defensive star. It is an unfortunate circumstance, but it had to be someone. He will probably catch on somewhere else this year, and if not this year, he will earn a spot with a bigger program playing a year at JUCO.
If the team can live up to expectations this year, Valpo may seem like a "bigger program."
Relvao is gone. It is worth it for a Sweet 16 appearance. A shot like this--gotta take it. And if successful, better recruits will follow.
Quote from: Pathfinder on July 31, 2015, 07:21:03 AM
Relvao is gone. It is worth it for a Sweet 16 appearance. A shot like this--gotta take it. And if successful, better recruits will follow.
Couldn't agree more. You know what Vashil brings to the table on and off the court. He's the best defender in Valparaiso's history and is one of the best defenders in the country.
I am trying to keep my expectations down a bit because I know the higher your expectations are the more you'll be disappointed. Honestly though I can easily see Valpo being a Northern Iowa, Wichita State, Gonzaga, Butler, St. Mary's caliber program next season. Last season they were a good mid-major team, this season they easily could be an elite mid-major program.
We should have stuck with Relvao. I think it is pretty simple – if we offer a kid a scholarship, we should follow through with that commitment. It is just the right thing to do, at least in my opinion.
Paul
Why is the commitment to Vashil any less important than the commitment to Daniel? As I've mentioned before, to punish Vashil by asking him to pay his own way because the NCAA made a mistake originally and then reversed its decision is asinine in my eyes.
To put it another way, if Vashil had just sat out as a normal redshirt his first season and then played the last three years, would there be anybody saying he should not get a scholarship this season? I don't believe so. Well, retroactively, this is exactly the case.
Simply put, the staff was put into a quandary thanks to the NCAA's reversal, and did what they felt was best for the program.
Quote from: 78crusader on July 31, 2015, 09:48:31 AM
We should have stuck with Relvao. I think it is pretty simple – if we offer a kid a scholarship, we should follow through with that commitment. It is just the right thing to do, at least in my opinion.
Paul
Don't we also owe it to Vashil to allow him to play his fourth season?
He's put in 4 years to our program and was allowed to play 3, he was granted a 4th. It sucks for Relvao that he got the short straw but that's how the game is played, unfortunately. We owe more to Vashil than we do Relvao, who's to say Relvao wouldn't have been just another Clay Yeo and leave after a season.
Quote from: 78crusader on July 31, 2015, 09:48:31 AM
We should have stuck with Relvao. I think it is pretty simple – if we offer a kid a scholarship, we should follow through with that commitment. It is just the right thing to do, at least in my opinion.
Paul
If we simply go by what would be "the right thing to do," then the NCAA should have done the right thing, acknowledged their error that caused the problem and allowed an exception in which Relvao is permitted to enroll at VU as an additional scholarship player but only as a redshirt. In that way, Valpo would be able to honor its commitment yet the number of available players for this season remains at 13.
Quote from: classof2014 on July 31, 2015, 10:01:43 AMHe's put in 4 years to our program and was allowed to play 3, he was granted a 4th. It sucks for Relvao that he got the short straw but that's how the game is played, unfortunately. We owe more to Vashil than we do Relvao, who's to say Relvao wouldn't have been just another Clay Yeo and leave after a season.
I figure this has to play into it from a team chemistry angle as well. Players will understand Bryce and VU were put in a bad situation. But, which is it going to be easier for the team to swallow? Cutting the new guy, who they've barely met? Or cutting a key player, surely a key locker room guy, that they all know and love?
You wonder where Relvao is on this as well. I don't suppose we have any quotes from him? Maybe he already had thoughts, ideas, inclinations, opportunities elsewhere. (Maybe not.)
I'm sure that the coaching staff and AD office looked at many options over the last few months, including helping Vashil find a landing spot for one year (graduate transfer). Even if Vashil didn't get a fourth year, Relvao was not going to get much playing time this year, which I'm sure factored in the decision. I'd like to hear more about what happens to Relvao. I'm hoping he finds a prep school and retains four years - hopefully for Valpo!
I'm sure none of this was easy on Bryce, the coaching staff, and the AD's office. Now, they can focus on the trip to Canada and 2016 recruiting, eh.
http://www.wltx.com/story/sports/high-school/2015/02/03/matt-colburn/22782735/ (http://www.wltx.com/story/sports/high-school/2015/02/03/matt-colburn/22782735/)
When Bobby Petrino pulled this he caught all kinds of grief and national rebuke. I understand what we did but we really screwed this kid. To lose your ride a week or two before school stinks no matter how you look at it.
Quote from: IndyValpo on July 31, 2015, 11:57:06 AM
http://www.wltx.com/story/sports/high-school/2015/02/03/matt-colburn/22782735/ (http://www.wltx.com/story/sports/high-school/2015/02/03/matt-colburn/22782735/)
When Bobby Petrino pulled this he caught all kinds of grief and national rebuke. I understand what we did but we really screwed this kid. To lose your ride a week or two before school stinks no matter how you look at it.
[/b]
I don't think that's fair or accurate. Bryce has known about this since late April according to Paul Oren's report. I'm sure there was a mad scramble to determine what to do next and it is pretty obvious that Daniel would have been part of the discussion as to how to solve the scholarship question. April is not "a week or two before school". I'm sure Bryce et al have put in lots of effort to help resolve Daniel's situation. For all we know he has agreed that a year in Juco would be best versus riding the pines at Valpo. Sure it may be a disappointment but so is going from being a focal point of the offense to a spot at the very end of the bench. Given his limited experience with basketball I suspect he may have readily agreed with the revised plan.
Quote from: covufan on July 30, 2015, 01:17:07 PMPaul Oren reports everybody but Relvao on campus, and Relvao wasn't expected anyway because of national team duty
Quote from: agibson on July 30, 2015, 05:14:02 PMSources have indicated that the hope is that Relvao will enroll at a JUCO and then join the Crusaders in the fall of 2016.
These two lines make it seem like we have been stringing the kid along...
Quote from: vu72 on July 31, 2015, 12:24:13 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on July 31, 2015, 11:57:06 AM
http://www.wltx.com/story/sports/high-school/2015/02/03/matt-colburn/22782735/ (http://www.wltx.com/story/sports/high-school/2015/02/03/matt-colburn/22782735/)
When Bobby Petrino pulled this he caught all kinds of grief and national rebuke. I understand what we did but we really screwed this kid. To lose your ride a week or two before school stinks no matter how you look at it.
[/b]
I don't think that's fair or accurate. Bryce has known about this since late April according to Paul Oren's report. I'm sure there was a mad scramble to determine what to do next and it is pretty obvious that Daniel would have been part of the discussion as to how to solve the scholarship question. April is not "a week or two before school". I'm sure Bryce et al have put in lots of effort to help resolve Daniel's situation. For all we know he has agreed that a year in Juco would be best versus riding the pines at Valpo. Sure it may be a disappointment but so is going from being a focal point of the offense to a spot at the very end of the bench. Given his limited experience with basketball I suspect he may have readily agreed with the revised plan.
Quote from: IndyValpo on July 31, 2015, 12:37:59 PM
Quote from: covufan on July 30, 2015, 01:17:07 PMPaul Oren reports everybody but Relvao on campus, and Relvao wasn't expected anyway because of national team duty
Quote from: agibson on July 30, 2015, 05:14:02 PMSources have indicated that the hope is that Relvao will enroll at a JUCO and then join the Crusaders in the fall of 2016.
These two lines make it seem like we have been stringing the kid along...
Perhaps Paul Oren should chime in on this. He also has said that he was getting nothing from the people in charge. Why that was the case is uncertain but more likely then not they were trying to iron out the details of where he will land and didn't want to make an official announcement until that had occurred. We don't know yet where he will land. My guess is that we will get something on that very shortly. Time will tell...
I think right now there is some confusion as to whether or not Valpo (Drew, etc) can comment on Relvao. Since he is not enrolling here in the fall, it seems that he could now be considered a recruitable athlete again, and Drew/Valpo would not be allowed to speak about him. It's an awkward situation from what I've gathered and I'm not sure that anybody knows the rules. Bryce was very hesitant to talk about Relvao in any capacity, choosing to talk about excitement pertaining to Vashil instead. From what I've gathered just based on body language and tone, the coaches are bummed about not adding Relvao while being very excited about getting Fernandez back. I'd highly doubt that we'll get a release from Valpo concerning where Relvao ends up. His high school coach is Pawel Mrozik, a former Valparaiso director of basketball operations. He's a good guy and someone I've been in contact with. Spoke with him at the Final Four. He was excited for Relvao to go to Valpo. Isn't sure the plan now.
Great to have Vashil for one more year. It is also a bummer not to have Relvao in the mix. With Relvao, it is unknown how good he might have been in a Valpo uniform, especially after a few years development. I'm hoping that with the team we now have for 2015-16 and the OOC schedule we've seen so far, that we get in a position to get some very good recruits that we might not have been in contention for in the past. Oh, and we need to keep Bryce!
Quote from: Pgmado on July 31, 2015, 02:02:17 PM
I think right now there is some confusion as to whether or not Valpo (Drew, etc) can comment on Relvao. Since he is not enrolling here in the fall, it seems that he could now be considered a recruitable athlete again, and Drew/Valpo would not be allowed to speak about him. It's an awkward situation from what I've gathered and I'm not sure that anybody knows the rules. Bryce was very hesitant to talk about Relvao in any capacity, choosing to talk about excitement pertaining to Vashil instead. From what I've gathered just based on body language and tone, the coaches are bummed about not adding Relvao while being very excited about getting Fernandez back. I'd highly doubt that we'll get a release from Valpo concerning where Relvao ends up. His high school coach is Pawel Mrozik, a former Valparaiso director of basketball operations. He's a good guy and someone I've been in contact with. Spoke with him at the Final Four. He was excited for Relvao to go to Valpo. Isn't sure the plan now.
I'm sure that VU can't comment on Relvao. Verbal Commits still doesn't have anything on him opening up his recruiting, nor does any other recruiting site. An earlier article http://blogs.post-trib.com/osipoff/2014/10/valparaiso_adds_recruit_daniel.html (http://blogs.post-trib.com/osipoff/2014/10/valparaiso_adds_recruit_daniel.html) had him with offers from Rhode Island, Liberty and Montana State. RI and Montana State do not appear to have scholarships, but Liberty does. His coach at Mountain Mission School has ties to Valpo and Liberty http://mmshoops.com/coach-mrozik/. (http://mmshoops.com/coach-mrozik/.) I'm wondering if the possibility that Relvao could spend another year at Mountain Mission, with it counting as a prep school year. With the silence surrounding him, I'm wondering if he is seeking another year of HS eligibility in VA? If he were seeking a Juco or a different Division I school, I would have thought we'd hear about by now.
Good luck to him whatever path he chooses.
I wrote a few extended words on Vashil coming back: http://www.valpofanzone.com/2015/08/19/vashil-is-back-and-heres-why-its-really-important/ (http://www.valpofanzone.com/2015/08/19/vashil-is-back-and-heres-why-its-really-important/)
But here they are:
Vashil is back. This offseason, the NCAA granted Vashil Fernandez a fourth season of eligibility after previously ruling Fernandez had only three years to play D1 basketball. This surprise decision should be sweet music to Crusader fans' ears; I'm going to explain exactly why this ruling is more important than you probably think it is.
He Keeps Improving. He May Be Even Better Next Year.
Before I dig into the impact Vashil had on the floor last year, it's important to look at the trajectory of Vashil these past three seasons. Sitting behind Kevin Van Wijk and Bobby Capobianco, it was hard for Vashil to find minutes in his first year of eligibility. Vashil was fairly raw; he scored almost as many points (30) as fouls committed (29). His offensive rating (points produced per 100 possessions) was only 74.3, by far the worst on the team, and the lowest rating since Cameron Witt's 67.8 in the 2009-2010 season (min of 150 minutes played). Vashil's second season was far more successful. As the season went on, he found playing time in front of 7'0 5th year transfer Moussa Gueye, and drastically improved his offense. Vashil scored four times as many points, improved his free throw percentage from 28.6% to 47.7%, and grabbed five times as many offense rebounds. Vashil's defense improved as well. He created an identity as a rim protector, blocking 1.7 shots per game, and hauled in 5 times as many defensive rebounds. The following season, Vashil improved in nearly every facet of the game, and netted the Crusaders' first Horizon League Defensive Player of the Year award. Looking at some advanced statistics, it's clear to see how dramatically Vashil has improved on both offense and defense since his first season.
Year | PER | ORtg | DRtg | WS/40 |
2012 | 6.2 | 74.3 | 95.3 | .034 |
2013 | 13.8 | 101.9 | 96.0 | .109 |
2014 | 19.9 | 114.0 | 88.5 | .174 |
Vashil's 114.0 offensive rating was second to only Alec Peters last season, and his defensive rating was one of the best in Horizon League history (more on that later). His PER (measuring overall effectiveness using a variety of stats) improved to 19.9, only 2nd on the team behind Peters. Overall, his sharp improvement should excite Crusader fans; if he improves even further, the sky is the limit for the Crusaders... or at least, another Sweet 16 run.
His Defense Was Crazy Good Last Year
Vashil's biggest strength is his shot blocking. Last season, Vashil was 3rd in the entire country in block percentage; he blocked 14.1% of all 2pt field goals attempted when he was on the court. The next highest block % in the Horizon was Anton Grady at 5.9%. His 97 blocks (2.9 per game) were the most in the Horizon. The next highest? Greg Mays and Tai Odiase both at 48.
Player | Blks | Blks PG | Blks P40 | BLK% | DRtg |
Vashil Fernandez | 97 | 2.9 | 2.8 | 14.1 | 88.5 |
Anton Grady | 45 | 1.4 | 1.8 | 5.9 | 92.0 |
Greg Mays | 48 | 1.5 | 2.1 | 5.7 | 95.4 |
Tai Odiase | 48 | 1.7 | 3.7 | 9.9 | 105.6 |
This elite shot blocking translated into some impressive defensive numbers. Vashil's 88.5 defensive rating meant that every 100 possessions, opponents would only score 88.5 points on average. This was the best defensive rating by a Horizon League player in at least 6 years (when the stat started being available for college basketball). For comparison, Dante Williams, an Oakland University player who was also named to the Horizon League All Defense team, had a defensive rating of 115.5. Vashil's rebounding also wasn't bad. He was 5th in the league in rebound percentage (best on team), and 7th in rebounds per game (2nd best on team). Overall, these terrific numbers made Vashil a no-brainer for Defensive Player of the Year in the Horizon.
From Huge Question Mark to the Best Frontcourt in the Horizon
Derrik Smits may be one of Valpo's most high profile recruits since Jay Harris (that's not even a joke, Jay Harris was an ESPN Top 100 recruit), but handing over the reins to a freshman may have been a bit of a struggle. Derrik Smits isn't new to basketball like Vashil was when he first came to Valparaiso, but he still needs time to grow into his 7'1 frame. Without Vashil, the Crusaders would have been forced to play much smaller than last year and rely on 6'7 Jubril Adekoya to play significant minutes at the 5. With Vashil back, Bryce Drew can play Jubril more minutes at the 4, giving Valparaiso the flexibility to play with bigger lineups. Derrik Smits has a year to learn and grow while playing against Vashil during practice. Most importantly, the lineup continuity will help the team's chemistry both on and off the court.
Like the 2012-2013 team, the Crusaders have a chance to return pretty much all of their minutes and improve. Last time, Valpo went from a non-tournament team to a tournament team. This time?
Wait, if you were to believe everything that Oakland fans say, Dante Williams was robbed of the DPOTY award!!
Bleacher Report named Vashil the eleventh best defensive stopper in the country. Rankings like this are always to be taken lightly, but the inclusion of Vashil in a list of top defenders is certainly warranted and a little spotlight is good, too!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2546180-ranking-the-top-defensive-stoppers-in-college-basketball-in-2015-16/page/11 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2546180-ranking-the-top-defensive-stoppers-in-college-basketball-in-2015-16/page/11)
Quote from: Vale O. Paradise on August 20, 2015, 10:58:46 AM
Bleacher Report named Vashil the eleventh best defensive stopper in the country. Rankings like this are always to be taken lightly, but the inclusion of Vashil in a list of top defenders is certainly warranted and a little spotlight is good, too!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2546180-ranking-the-top-defensive-stoppers-in-college-basketball-in-2015-16/page/11 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2546180-ranking-the-top-defensive-stoppers-in-college-basketball-in-2015-16/page/11)
Nice! Even while I'll admit that these pieces would feel somehow more reputable when they come from mainstream outlets, Sportz Bubble and all. Bleacher Report is effectively crowd sourced?
It's great seeing guys like Vashil and Alec get the national recognition as top-tier talent they rightfully deserve. It's also great seeing Valpo get preseason attention on a national stage this early. Obviously expectations are quite high as they should be and Valpo could turn into that great story of a small mid-major competing with the high-dollar, high-profile schools, come March.
Quote from: agibson on August 21, 2015, 09:12:14 AM
Quote from: Vale O. Paradise on August 20, 2015, 10:58:46 AM
Bleacher Report named Vashil the eleventh best defensive stopper in the country. Rankings like this are always to be taken lightly, but the inclusion of Vashil in a list of top defenders is certainly warranted and a little spotlight is good, too!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2546180-ranking-the-top-defensive-stoppers-in-college-basketball-in-2015-16/page/11 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2546180-ranking-the-top-defensive-stoppers-in-college-basketball-in-2015-16/page/11)
Nice! Even while I'll admit that these pieces would feel somehow more reputable when they come from mainstream outlets, Sportz Bubble and all. Bleacher Report is effectively crowd sourced?
Not anymore, but many of the writers are unpaid and in high school. It was a completely open source model, but since Yahoo bought it, they've had an interview process for writers. The main gripe is that their articles are just boilerplate clickbait slideshows, and they don't contain actual journalism.
Quote from: agibson on August 21, 2015, 09:12:14 AMNice! Even while I'll admit that these pieces would feel somehow more reputable when they come from mainstream outlets, Sportz Bubble and all. Bleacher Report is effectively crowd sourced?
Business model has changed somewhat since being acquired by Turner. They have paid writers but still take advantage of the often too eager local young writer. Here is an article from last year as to how they go about sourcing material. http://deadspin.com/the-top-200-ways-bleacher-report-screwed-me-over-1608499729 (http://deadspin.com/the-top-200-ways-bleacher-report-screwed-me-over-1608499729)
Great Article on Vashil by Mike Lopresti.
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2015-11-04/valparaiso-basketball-vashil-fernandez-man-letters-rejections (http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2015-11-04/valparaiso-basketball-vashil-fernandez-man-letters-rejections)
Fantastic reading!
I had a conversation with Vashil last night. Today His family moves to Texas, and, upon his agents advice, he will spend between two weeks and a month at IMG Academy in Florida. He will be getting some work in prior to the draft. He still holds out hope that for he NBA draft, but is well aware he could end up in Europe. He is a quality young man. His plans for life after basketball include using his education to improve the lives of Jamaicans and the economy of the island.
By the way, he assured me that Alec will come back to Valpo if he isn't drafted.
Well thats positive news if Vashil has a hunch he'll be back if he doesn't declare. Only problem is he has 3-4 more days to withdraw his name from the draft if he thinks its in his best interest (Fingers crossed he decides to comes back) and gets drafted next summer. Nuggets and Celtics have a ton of picks this year and thats who he's been working out for. Hopefully the Nuggets and Celtics coaches/scouts tell him if for sure or not, because it would pretty unprofessional on their part to mislead him.
I hope that Vashil's hunch is accurate, I really do. Why is his family moving to TX, if he is going to FL? He will have a fantastic European career, and I do hope that he improves his offense enough to be given a shot at the NBA. It would be really cool to have Rowdy, Alec, and Vashil in the NBA!
His wife's family is from Texas, and it would be nice to have their support as he is off pursing his basketball career.
Some news of note on the Vashil front......
[tweet]743546032789786624[/tweet]
[tweet]743578360769560576[/tweet]
Who would have done so in 2005-2006? Maybe Ron Howard and Ali Berdiel? We have the potential of having 3 Valpo alums/players getting NBA workouts this year, as I am sure that Rowdy will have a few after the Olympics :).