We need to continue putting one good half after another. We can't relapse against CSU. Any defensive miscues will swing things towards CSU.
Valpo - 67
CSU - 63
Valpo is a 1-point underdog, and I don't have a good feeling about this game; however, there should be an enthusiastic home crowd and the team should be rested some by spreading the minutes so evenly in the Youngstown game. Maybe CSU will also have a Butler hangover. Therefore, I will be hopeful, and I will go against my better instincts by picking an upset:
CSU 66
VALPO 70
csu bangs and hammers at all five positions - it's how they're coached. kevin and kenney can handle it. pencil-stick guys like jay can't. if the refs let contact go, we're in trouble.
csu becomes the first team to go 2-0 on the indiana trip, 75-68.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on January 14, 2012, 08:11:20 PM
csu bangs and hammers at all five positions - it's how they're coached. kevin and kenney can handle it. pencil-stick guys like jay can't. if the refs let contact go, we're in trouble.
csu becomes the first team to go 2-0 on the indiana trip, 75-68.
Yeah, get ready for their usual stratagem of wearing opponents down and breaking their will by fouling so much the refs can't call them all. In their first 6 conf. games, they have out fouled their opponents by an avg. of 7 fouls/game. This is an incredible difference, especially considering 5 of the 6 games were wins. Bryce needs to bend the refs ears before the game ever starts to watch for all the illegal hip checking, hand checking, extended knees, extended elbows, tripping and undercutting. If the refs put a stop to all the borderline dirty play early on and they still win, so be it. I just want them to have to earn it - not steal it.
GO VU!!!
Valpo 84
CSU 77
This article says the first five minutes will tell us the game story. Should be exciting!
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/csu/index.ssf/2012/01/cleveland_state_hoping_to_main.html (http://www.cleveland.com/sports/csu/index.ssf/2012/01/cleveland_state_hoping_to_main.html)
Cleveland State doesn't plant a sledgehammer at midcourt before the games for nothing, folks.
I'm not going to say that the Vikings are dirty, but I've never seen a team foul with folding chairs before.
Here is CSU's modus operandi: sprint out to a commanding early lead and foul as many times as humanly possible, hoping they don't get caught.
How many of their 45 or more fouls will be called? That's a major question in the game today.
I've got a good feeling about you guys in a higher-scoring game than Cleveland State would like.
I read the article, and except for the foul physicality part of CSU's game, that's what I want to see Valpo do. I want to see them SET THE PACE. We spend more time on the catch up end of things in that first five minutes or so. We should be the ones doing the "run-and-gun" style to start. I don't know why we don't pace set, but if we did that, it might give our guys a little more green light confidence to put a team away early. I mean we're supposed to be a more uptempo team, but it seems like our uptempo play doesn't start until we're uncomfortably behind or too close on the scoreboard. This game against CSU would be a perfect game to break out of that comfort zone, and make it so that CSU's physical side leads to them committing more frustration fouls because they can't keep up, than us succumbing to their style of play because we want a good game.
Valpo 78
CSU 61
I would only suggest that a big part of Cleveland State's opening blitzkrieg is its full-court press.
With lightning-quick senior guards Tre Harmon, Jeremy Montgomery and D'Aundray Brown, the Vikings are perfectly equipped to do that.
I'm just not sure Valpo has the personnel to achieve the effect you desire at this point in time.
The best idea for now is to weather the storm and beat them at the mental game and with free throws.
Check Out Our CSU Game Preview:
http://www.beyond-the-arc.com/index.html (http://www.beyond-the-arc.com/index.html)
Just not feeling it today boys. 79-70 CSU.
"I hope I'm wrong."
Montgomery has been hot from outside lately and is their leading scorer during HL play. They all have shot pretty well in conference play from the field (considering a lot of those attempts are 3's) and especially from the line. If valpo gets the scoring balance they had Friday they should win. But if Bogan and Harris don't show up (see WSU).....
Valpo wins 77-73
Remember last year when Cleveland State came here, also on a Sunday afternoon? Crusaders put on a pretty good beating.
Second leg of the Horizon road trips aren't good for visiting teams. Look at last week's results.
This one is over.
It's those heinous black uniforms that CSU broke out last year against Butler. ;)
Seriously, you've got to slow down and make your open 3-pointers in transition.
Valpo wins 72-66! ;D
Great win! The team really stayed together and executed after CSU got up by 4.
Kevin Van Wijk was the difference today. Without seeing any +/- numbers, it felt like Valpo played much better when he was in. CSU got a run in the 1st while he was taking breathers and really came on strong when Kevin was sitting in the 2nd due to foul trouble, but when Kevin was on the floor, we played like a great basketball team. Also a really good day for Ryan and Matt overall. BIG WIN VALPO!
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/01/game-wrap-up-too-big-too-strong.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/01/game-wrap-up-too-big-too-strong.html)
KVW was definately the difference maker. I still want to see Rowdy take more shots, 14 points on 8 shots today. VU controls their own destiny for one of those coveted double byes now!
Quote from: KL31NY on January 15, 2012, 03:49:19 PM
Kevin Van Wijk was the difference today. Without seeing any +/- numbers, it felt like Valpo played much better when he was in. CSU got a run in the 1st while he was taking breathers and really came on strong when Kevin was sitting in the 2nd due to foul trouble, but when Kevin was on the floor, we played like a great basketball team. Also a really good day for Ryan and Matt overall. BIG WIN VALPO!
No question we were a completely different team when Kevin was out - especially on the defensive end. Richie has a long way to go in learning to play interior defense, although he seems to be making a better effort. The worst situation was the short period that both Kevin and Ryan were out at the same time. That is a formula for disaster on both ends against a good team like CSU. Coach Gore said in the post game that CSU played two different gimmick defenses - a diamond and one with the chaser constantly on Ryan and a triangle and two with the two on Ryan and Will. He said that the excellent play of Matt and Jay forced them to abandon it at some point and play straight up man. Who knows what is going to happen from here on, but if we continue to play with this level of intensity and continue to hit some outside shots, we should be in every game.
this is very welcome news! i'm pumped! way to go guys! no question a huge win, preventing csu from becoming the first team to sweep the indiana trip. let's keep rolling!
Horizon League Standings
team conf w-l overall w-l
Milwaukee 6-1 13-6
Valparaiso 5-2 12-7
Cleveland State 5-2 15-4
Butler 4-3 10-9
Youngstown State 4-3 9-8
Wright State 4-4 9-11
Green Bay 3-4 7-10
Detroit 3-5 9-11
Illinois-Chicago 2-5 6-11
Loyola (IL) 0-7 5-12
Much like watching my beloved 49ers last night, I figured, "if we lose this lead, we lose this game." In both games I was wonderfully surprised by the fight and resilience shown by the home team to not panic and to throw up a counter punch! Nicely done today, and a good crowd on a Sunday to boot!
As everyone else has noted, Kevin's play was essential. When he was out, CSU took over the game and the lead. When he returned, Valpo got back command of the game. Once again, the formula of consistent scoring from Ryan and Kevin plus a third and fourth scorer with a decent 3-point percentage gave us a win. This time the third and fourth scorers were Jay (12) and Matt (10). When Ryan and Kevin don't get that help scoring, Valpo usually loses.
Valpo's defense was pretty good, though I was surprised and disappointed to see CSU won on the boards, especially since they are not known as a good rebounding team and we shot 14 fewer field goal attempts, which usually would mean we'd have more rebounds.
I still wonder why Boggs starts and gets as many minutes as he does since he is unbelievably shooting less than 20%, the lowest on the team, including the walk-on players. I also can't understand how Bogan can play an entire game, get as many minutes as he did (more than Kevin) and not even attempt a single shot, especially after the recent shooting exhibition we saw in Detroit. In fact, he played 26 minutes, but he had 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 steals, and 0 blocks, plus 1 assist and 2 turnovers. I don't know, maybe he was playing good defense; but I'd like to see him take a couple of shots at least to signal he could be a threat on the offense, which might free up Ryan for even more good shots.
I don't usually like to look ahead too much, but Valpo should sweep the Chicago trip and have a 7-2 record (5 away games) at the halfway point of conference play, something I think we all would have been happy to accept when the season began.
Quote from: vu72 on January 15, 2012, 08:01:39 AM
This article says the first five minutes will tell us the game story. Should be exciting!
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/csu/index.ssf/2012/01/cleveland_state_hoping_to_main.html (http://www.cleveland.com/sports/csu/index.ssf/2012/01/cleveland_state_hoping_to_main.html)
I guess that article wasn't lying. Valpo came out on fire. Reminded me of how they came out last year against Missouri State. Kevin had a great game and I though Ryan played great too. Many of Kevin's points were passes from Ryan for layups. We sure do need some work against the press though. Buggs and Harris both struggled against it.
I did the math and studied the play-by-play.
First half with Kevin in - 20-6 VU. Kevin out 19-9 CSU.
Second half with Kevin in - 37-24 VU. Kevin out 17-6 CSU.
Total with Kevin in 57-30 for a plus 27. Minus-21 (36-15) when he was out.
Good solid play by KVW with 8 minutes to go and 4 fouls! I was very scared he would foul out quickly when put back in, but it did not happen this time. Just like I said on the chat during the game, I absolutely hate teams that play the way CSU does. It makes it easier to dislike a team when 1/2 of their fouls are called, but they still get 23...
I like seeing Kenney coming off the bench. I don't see Bogan or Boggs being better players necessarily. I think Kenney brings an energy to the court. He makes terrible decisions at times, but we need to have someone coming off the bench to keep the intensity up. Matt can do that. Ben is not going to do that.
Quote from: cmack on January 15, 2012, 11:17:39 PM
I like seeing Kenney coming off the bench. I don't see Bogan or Boggs being better players necessarily. I think Kenney brings an energy to the court. He makes terrible decisions at times, but we need to have someone coming off the bench to keep the intensity up. Matt can do that. Ben is not going to do that.
Fair point. It was the same on the women's team when Mallory Ladd was around. Definitely a good enough player to earn a start, but she had good, consistent game coming in off the bench.
I've liked Kenney a lot. He seems like a guy who can be overlooked because he is a regular sub, but he always seems to come up with the big plays on each end of the floor when needed.
Quote from: valpotx on January 15, 2012, 06:59:34 PM
Good solid play by KVW with 8 minutes to go and 4 fouls! I was very scared he would foul out quickly when put back in, but it did not happen this time. Just like I said on the chat during the game, I absolutely hate teams that play the way CSU does. It makes it easier to dislike a team when 1/2 of their fouls are called, but they still get 23...
I may be wrong, but sitting there during that exciting game, I came away with the feeling that CSU's "They-can't-possibly-call-them-all" fouling strategy was not a huge story. Maybe Valpo beat them at their own game....? Or else they figured out how to sell the fouls.
Actually, I didn't see all that much that was out of hand. Maybe the fact that Valpo set the pace robbed them of that strategy, if the Cleveland Plain Dealer story is to be believed.
What I'm disappointed in is that I didn't try to scope out the CSU radio color analyst to see if he was the same one as in the Butler game on Friday. That's just too cool. Did anyone notice who it was (ESPNU tuned into them a couple of times)?
Quote from: KL31NY on January 16, 2012, 12:21:06 AM
Quote from: cmack on January 15, 2012, 11:17:39 PM
I like seeing Kenney coming off the bench. I don't see Bogan or Boggs being better players necessarily. I think Kenney brings an energy to the court. He makes terrible decisions at times, but we need to have someone coming off the bench to keep the intensity up. Matt can do that. Ben is not going to do that.
Fair point. It was the same on the women's team when Mallory Ladd was around. Definitely a good enough player to earn a start, but she had good, consistent game coming in off the bench.
I've liked Kenney a lot. He seems like a guy who can be overlooked because he is a regular sub, but he always seems to come up with the big plays on each end of the floor when needed.
And finally an HL opponent managed to scout our hail mary play ;) I was impressed.
For those who have been entertained by my whining about refs, I give you this chuckle a minute thread over on the CSU board: http://letsgovikes.com/forum/index.php/topic,1436.0.html (http://letsgovikes.com/forum/index.php/topic,1436.0.html)
Actually, there were contributors who refused to go there, but for those who did my first thought was, "shoe's on the other foot now, eh?" (My second thought was "Who ya crappin?")
I also continue to be greatly amused by out-of-town fans whining about our announcers. :crazy:
Wow! And I thought Butler fans whined a lot! You'd think CSU was 3-15!! No doubt Todd is as knowledgeable as any announcer I have heard, and that includes his football job! He obviously is a Valpo announcer and having him do an Horizon League broadcast no doubt would upset the opponent listeners as it would us when some guy was jumping up and down every time the home team made a good play.
Quote from: vu72 on January 19, 2012, 09:29:39 AM
Wow! And I thought Butler fans whined a lot! You'd think CSU was 3-15!! No doubt Todd is as knowledgeable as any announcer I have heard, and that includes his football job! He obviously is a Valpo announcer and having him do an Horizon League broadcast no doubt would upset the opponent listeners as it would us when some guy was jumping up and down every time the home team made a good play.
In fairness, I do think Todd is more exuberant than some HL play-by-play announcers, though I can think of others that are just as excitable. Darren Sutton (UWM) can get up there in decibels too. Viking play-by-play guy is just as excitable, for that matter. Cry me a river. You know what I think? The only reason they hated it was because their team was losing. I'd feel the same way if it was me (in fact I have felt that way before -- nobody likes listening to the other team's announcers when your team is losing).
There's plenty of reasons why I get upset at the other team's announcers, but excitability is WAY down on the list. My number one go to example is 2008 Valpo at Houston, 2nd round of CBI. Those turds were horrible. Of course, the horrible part is that CBI rules forced people like me to listen to the Houston announcers or go mute. Vikings fans at least had the option to fire up their own radio play-by-play. I do that all the time when Valpo is on the road. Yes, there's a lag, but it's really a small price to pay to listen to a friendly voice.
And by the way, if any of the whiners would like to come to St. Louis and listen to Bob Ramsey do Billiken games, they'd learn to appreciate Todd Ickow. You want some guy's voice ringing in your ears, especially when the home team is draining 3s left and right, Bob's your guy.
Quote from: vu72 on January 19, 2012, 09:29:39 AM
Wow! And I thought Butler fans whined a lot! You'd think CSU was 3-15!! No doubt Todd is as knowledgeable as any announcer I have heard, and that includes his football job! He obviously is a Valpo announcer and having him do an Horizon League broadcast no doubt would upset the opponent listeners as it would us when some guy was jumping up and down every time the home team made a good play.
All of us have listened to Todd do a game where we have no access to the video. When listening to him in a heated battle,you very frequently get the impression on the road that the refs have teamed up with the opposition so that we are playing 5 against 8. However when I am watching a broadcast or video stream and listening to Todds play by play I almost always agree with the refs on probably 80% of the calls that he questions. As a VU fan this only slightly bothers me, but if I were a fan of the opponent I am pretty certain that I would want to choke him.
Quote from: justducky on January 19, 2012, 02:56:02 PM
Quote from: vu72 on January 19, 2012, 09:29:39 AM
Wow! And I thought Butler fans whined a lot! You'd think CSU was 3-15!! No doubt Todd is as knowledgeable as any announcer I have heard, and that includes his football job! He obviously is a Valpo announcer and having him do an Horizon League broadcast no doubt would upset the opponent listeners as it would us when some guy was jumping up and down every time the home team made a good play.
All of us have listened to Todd do a game where we have no access to the video. When listening to him in a heated battle,you very frequently get the impression on the road that the refs have teamed up with the opposition so that we are playing 5 against 8. However when I am watching a broadcast or video stream and listening to Todds play by play I almost always agree with the refs on probably 80% of the calls that he questions. As a VU fan this only slightly bothers me, but if I were a fan of the opponent I am pretty certain that I would want to choke him.
Which makes him like most, if not all, partisan play-by-play guys.
I also -- because I often do take my cues from Todd on this -- believe that we regularly read into such play-by-play more than that is there. "Contact, no call" *sounds* like a complaint, but that's frequently an assumption made by the listener. It could simply be an observation, nothing more.
I would also point out that Todd is not at all averse to observing when Valpo benefits from a bad call. I feel like I have heard announcers who are incapable of that (much like many of our own fans in the ARC, sad to say).
Your last observation I would agree with, because as even-handed as Todd is, like any partisan play-by-play guy he's certainly going to report the two different kinds of bad calls with a different emotional tone.
Now, if you want a partisan announcer who usually sounded less partisan to folks from the other team, I give you rlh. But I consider that to be far above the call of duty for partisan announcers.
Honestly, if people want partisan play-by-play announcers and color commentators, then they should be people hired by the HL, not the schools, but even then what these announcers do is equivalent to "selling you the game". If you don't like the presentation, then either that "salesman" won't be your cup of tea, or you can hope for a better "salesman" the next time. I've listened to our own Adam Amin a few times on ESPN broadcasts, and he knows how to be partisan, but also make the game exciting, even if the score or what you see on tv isn't exciting. At least he's not one of those announcers who only does the occasional mid-major/low-major game, and gets bored when the game is over on the court, but triple zero hasn't been reached on the scoreboard.
Quote from: valporun on January 19, 2012, 04:50:06 PM
Honestly, if people want partisan play-by-play announcers and color commentators, then they should be people hired by the HL, not the schools, but even then what these announcers do is equivalent to "selling you the game". If you don't like the presentation, then either that "salesman" won't be your cup of tea, or you can hope for a better "salesman" the next time. I've listened to our own Adam Amin a few times on ESPN broadcasts, and he knows how to be partisan, but also make the game exciting, even if the score or what you see on tv isn't exciting. At least he's not one of those announcers who only does the occasional mid-major/low-major game, and gets bored when the game is over on the court, but triple zero hasn't been reached on the scoreboard.
I think you meant bi-partisan or non-partisan, right?
"Our fouls are legit this game. A foul is a foul. We have to quit reaching so much"
We are manifesting all our weaknesses (e.g., no interior presence, no penetration, settling for the long shot, not defending the 3, fouling excessively). This is a recipe for a defeat.
It would help if we defended against the damn 3 ball!!!!
Every time we try to get back in this game, we do something dumb. Good thing their big man has 4! [but not enough fouls to take him out of the game]
I never expected a win today I hate how everything we do is a foul.
Harmon reaching, puts them into a 1 and 1! Damn it!
Gotta get Van Douchebag his fifth. Go right at him!
So many stupid fouls
One thing that I'll add, this Valpo team is simply a matchup problem for the Vikes. We don't have anybody to guard Broekhoff or Van Wijk and they both killed us. Any team with athletic bigs is a bad matchup for us, but its compounded with Valpo because they have an athletic "big" playing on the perimeter as well. I'll take Dee Brown any day of the week, but Broekhoff has the advantage being 6-7.
The box and 1 killed us against Valpo. The Vikes just don't play it well enough to make it work. I don't think GW will make that mistake again. Broekoff is good, but he won't beat us by himself.
I think we may be selectively reading the CSU board
Quote from: historyman on January 19, 2012, 08:30:17 PM
I think we may be selectively reading the CSU board
I stated up front:
QuoteActually, there were contributors who refused to go there
Perhaps I should have emphasized that more. Folks, not all CSU fans were being silly. I was poking fun *only* at the ones who *were* being silly.
:banghead: