Facilities

[FieldGoodie05]

Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and  went downhill fast.

Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why are you offended?  Several of us had an open dialogue.  I don't travel onto competitors forums because I don't have thick skin.  You're fine, ignore the haters.

You informed us well of UNI's intensions and it's aporeciated.

[VUGrad1314]

You're the one who came on here compared us to Evansville a program that gets absolutely zero respect from the MVC and is constantly looked down upon and blamed for the conference's ills. Meanwhile we actually did better than Loyola in their first year despite a ton of adversity. We have shown plenty of evidence that we have the ability to be and will be a good addition to the MVC.

I will never take a shot at another school but I will take a shot at another program when the program I support is attacked first. Your program is one I really respect but it's not like you're in the best position right now although that appears to be changing. I'm glad that UNI has such a dedicated alumni base and such great facilities but you do have a lot of factors going for you that we don't and that can't be denied. Some of it is our fault (too conservative prioritized other pursuits) but it's not like we haven't shown any dedication whatsoever it's just not as fast as we'd all like.  The big problem is that you come on here seeking discussion but if someone gives you an answer you don't like you take shots and walk around acting like UNI just made a Final 4  or got an AAC invite. That doesn't make your points wrong it's just that there's a better more civil way to discuss these issues than going onto a rival board and  poking Ys with the same stick that's been stuck in our eyes for decades. Youhave a lot to be proud of as a UNI fan and I wish your program much success when they are out there kicking butt in the nonconference and hopefully competing for an at large alongside Valpo.

[VULB#62]

It's clear that we are extreamly defensive about the quality of our school.  UNIFTW never questioned our school's quality, and we, in uber-defensive mode, lost sight of his key point:  THE DEFERENCE BETWEEN UNI AND VALPO IS THE THE INTENSITY AND ATHLETIC FOCUS OF ALUMNI SUPPORT. 

If we had even 50% of that, we'd at least have a rejuvenated (not necessarily rebuilt) ARC and other facility upgrades that let us not only talk the talk but walk the walk. His reference to "another Evansville" was a statement of how a once great program came into the MVC and couldn't perform to MVC standards.  Loyola was looking the same way, buy, evidently, they turned that around.  We came into the MVC with a great winning tradition, but we could just as easily duplicate Evansville's failure -- or Loyola's emergence.  But our tepid investment in the changeover, to outsiders based on past MVC experience, is to them an indicator that will exist until we find a way to prove them wrong.  And arguing about acadedemic standards and tuition costs a'int gonna get us anywhere.

The mirror that UNIFTW held up to us is this:  are we ready to commit to playing (in all of it's aspects) with the bigger boys?  If yes, let's see some action.  If no, why are we in the MVC?  You can't have it half way. Yoda said it.  "Do.  Do not do. There is no try."

[FWalum]

As I was thinking about this and you numbers. Why do you get to use half Valpo tuition for your numbers but not what most UNI students  probably pay in just tuition - let's call it's half as well. That takes UNIs number down to 11,000 to your 18,000.

It appears to me that you have not sent any children to college yet, if you had or were looking at sending a child you would know that private universities play the tuition game and that the final difference between state schools and private institutions is not nearly the chasm most people think.  I have a fair amount of experience in this area and yes, you will probably have to look harder for the dollars, but they are available and it is one of the reasons Valpo has been honored several times by U.S. News & World Report as the No. 1 Best Value in the Midwest along with best value awards from other publications. None of my children went to VU, but to other prominent private schools, and with a niece and nephew at Valpo, I am pretty confident that the average tuition number for students at VU is much closer to UNI than you might think.

I am sure that UNI is a fine school and seems to support it's athletic facilities better than VU.  I would have to say that the two schools are very different and that difference is probably most evident when looking at endowment numbers.  I very much wish that VU would improve on it's athletic facilities, but in today's environment I can not really fault the administration for the effort to raise an additional $250 million dollars for endowment rather than athletic facilities (although I could argue that successful athletic teams help increase donations hence endowment).  As a private institution the endowments allow us to compete against state schools such as UNI that do not have similar endowments and rely at least somewhat on state dollars.  This was never a thread about "who gives more money or gets more money from tuition" as it seems to have turned into, it was about how that money is spent and how the university responds as a steward of the money they have received. 

[VULB#62]

All great points, FW.   But we are really just talking athletics support. Wake (with, what, 4,000 undergrads?)  for instance, knows how to do it. Most Catholic institutions know how to do it. Where do we stand on that stage?  I suggest we, as an institution, do not even understand what it takes to even be on that stage.

[E-Villan]

Wow...that's some pretty lofty smack 1314 against a program you are a whopping 17-68 against lifetime, and haven't beaten in 11 years, but whatever makes you feel good.

I won't come on your board and start a yanker measuring contest..I will leave that to the UNI boy, but a UNI and Valpo fan dissing Evansville in a thread titled "facilities" is more than amusing.

[vu72]

Wow...that's some pretty lofty smack 1314 against a program you are a whopping 17-68 against lifetime, and haven't beaten in 11 years, but whatever makes you feel good.

I won't come on your board and start a yanker measuring contest..I will leave that to the UNI boy, but a UNI and Valpo fan dissing Evansville in a thread titled "facilities" is more than amusing.

Good point on the record.  Unfortunately your program went the way of the long robes (which I actually thought were pretty cool!)  However, Jerry Sloan doesn't play for you any longer!

[VUGrad1314]

I'm not the one who was talking smack about Evansville. If you read the thread our friend from Iowa took the first shot and if you read MVCFans Evansville has been a favorite whipping post for some time. I simply stated that we don't deserve to be a whipping post yet and gave reasons why. If you took that personally I apologize Evansville wasn't my target but my means of making my point defending Valpo. Here's a key line from my post that demonstrates my intent in the Evansville discussion.

"We are decidedly not another Evansville at least not in the way you conceive of Evansville."

He's the one who used "another Evansville" as a pejorative.

[UNIFTW]

Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and  went downhill fast. Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In terms of facilities, where do you feel UNI is right now vs the rest of the MVC?

As it stands today? Which sports?


For basketball/volleyball:
In terms of arena I'd say we are 4th or 5th with Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Bradley and Illinois State all potentially equal or a head. I also struggle to actually rate schools that don't own their own arena (Bradley, Evansville) a head of campus arenas. I realize Evansville has a bigger and newer arena but man that set up just doesn't do it for me as a CBB fan. SIU I haven't been too since it was updated but they put a lot into it recently. Our arena has many things missing that these upgrades will address - hanging video board, ribbon boards, a better sound system. Those were cheaped out on when the arena was built as was video and score boards and it's killed atmosphere since it opened. Been a major complain since day 1. Poor planning didn't account for adding nice boards and systems in place. Banners in the arena will be updates with bigger and better (brighter colors and updated custom UNI font). Signage updated. Once the renovation is done I can't imagine anything other than MSU being a head of it. UNI could rank a head of it simply because of how intimate the atmosphere is compared to something the size of JQH Arena. I know many schools don't play volleyball in their main facility, and rather the play in some side gym that is smaller and not as well maintained. UNI doesn't do that. Volleyball is played in the same facility.


In terms of practice area? I'm not 100% who has practice facilities (I've not looked to be honest to be 100% sure) but I'd guess we are probably somewhere in the 4-7 range. We have access to many courts to practice, but most of them are in the UNI Rec Center and aren't in fantastic condition like you'd want from a D1 practice space. Once the new place is built I can't imagine it wouldn't be at the top or top 2.


Locker rooms, team meeting rooms, training rooms? Top 3. UNI just renovated all that about 4 years ago through a 100% private endowment for that project (noticing a trend for how UNI pays for the athletics? The U might operate on state money but the AD doesn't). The individual who donated the money has since passed away and UNI wore a DH patch on their uniforms and special warm ups in his memory. Here is a video when it was "unveiled" publicly.

Since then it has been updated again with signage, LED lighting, more amenities, etc.. Another video with Coach Jake giving a tour of it to a local paper at the same time frame

In terms of softball? It's a pretty nice facility, but I don't know a ton of about other facilities. A quick Google shows us mostly in line but it's off campus and it's owned by the City of Cedar Falls. UNI has plans to build a new softball facility on campus just across the street from the basketball arena/football stadium which would be right on the south side of the track. I would imagine it would be pretty nice. Probably not the best in the conference but top 3. I'd assume the goal would be hosting conference tournaments. I would guess it would be similar to the style that Drake has and from what I understand Drake has the best facility is the best in the conference.


Track? The outdoor facility has been good enough for us to host multiple MVC meets. It got a few upgrades about a decade ago. It needs - and will get as part of the project - to be completely torn up and new asphalt laid under and a new surface. There will also be new bleachers and stands and boxes put in. That was held back in the past because of a facility that was behind it (a high school). That is now gone, thus the room for the new softball complex as well, and space to add things in. It will get new lights and a new infield that will be multiuse.


Soccer? I can't imagine we aren't the bottom. We play at a off campus soccer complex (like 5 miles off campus) that has probably a dozen fields. It's where the youth association and high schools in the area play. There's no stands, it's not great. I've seen most other soccer facilities. This too will be moved back to campus. I believe it will be the infield of the track. That should move it to top couple in the conference. Probably in the 3-4 range.


Swimming? I don't have any clue. I'll guess mid pack to lower mid pack simply because I know what our facility looks like and I can't imagine D1 facilities being any more basic than ours is. It's not bad it's just very basic. I'd imagine most - outside of the power schools - are all pretty similar.


Tennis? It was the worst. The on campus courts were a disaster. Thus the team practice and played at a club in Waterloo. So I'd guess they were okay but not idea. UNI just opened, this year, a new one million dollar tennis facility. It's not all UNI though I guess. It's like 51% UNI and then 49% split between the city of Cedar Falls and Cedar Falls CSD. I have not seen them but they were built to host conference championships, larger high school meets, and so on. I'd assume they are nice? Like any good PR spin they were called first class by the AD. Shockingly tennis doesn't get a ton of coverage so there aren't a ton of photos of it.

Baseball when we had it had to be 100000000% the worst. It wasn't on campus, it was a 20 minute drive. It was a dump. Horrible. It was part of the reason we dropped baseball - along with Title IX.

Rumors of a few womens sports being added to balance Title IX as well. I've heard rumblings what they are but won't comment on that yet in terms of potential facilities. They won't be MVC sports so it won't matter in this context anyway I guess.

Our non major sports have lagged - and that is going to be fixed. Donors weren't happy with the facilities and not being on campus. We've had ADs with vision but never the level our current AD has. It's making a major difference.

[UNIFTW]

jhk

You're the one who came on here compared us to Evansville a program that gets absolutely zero respect from the MVC and is constantly looked down upon and blamed for the conference's ills. Meanwhile we actually did better than Loyola in their first year despite a ton of adversity. We have shown plenty of evidence that we have the ability to be and will be a good addition to the MVC.

The comp to Evansville is pretty simple. UE had a ton of success in a lower league before joining the MVC. They joined the MVC and had to step up a level or two in competition and spending. They didn't, and didn't see the value in it. They fell way behind and haven't really recovered. They finish in the bottom 2 or 3 of the all sports standing every year. I've run the numbers going back to about 2004 and they were bottom 2 or 3 every single year that's not me exaggerating. Here we are nearly 30 years later and nothing has changed. They can defend themselves because of Ford Arena - but that isn't theirs. They rent it. The city built it. The city runs it. The city controls everything about it. Evansville has to pay, IIRC something along the lines of $10-15k per game to play there. I googled their practice facility...that's what UNI has currently in the university Rec Center. It's something but it's not anything special.


Their baseball facility? I'll leave that to someone with baseball - the SIU newspaper and their ranking of MVC baseball facilities from 2 years ago. Evansville was dead last. https://dailyegyptian.com/1192/sports/ranking-the-mvcs-baseball-stadiums/


Meeks Field house is legit just a high school gym down to the retractable hard plastic seats. It's nice looking as it as just renovated last year but it's just a nice high school gym that houses womens basketball and volleyball.


I lied about UNI's pool being bad. I looked at UEs...gross.


Their facilities are a bit nicer than I'd have guessed but exactly what I'd expect from them. They've put money in the last few years from the looks of it.


Again, the Evansville comp - and trust me I'm not the only one to bring that out - is as I said before based on being behind on facilities and a stubbornness to admit that investing in the AD top to bottom is needed when joining. That puts up barriers in addition to the those that private schools already complain about. I'm not really willing to wait 25 years for Valpo to figure the facility thing out and have their city build a big hockey arena so that they can rent it for basketball games.


Doing better than Loyola in the first year? Don't care. I still don't trust Loyola's long term viability. Even at that look at the money they spent upgrading their facility. Gentile Arena is still a glorified HS gym but it's nicer than the ARC. They announced a practice facility that had been in the works since before this basketball season - meaning even at a PIG team they were fund raising for practice facilities.


I've said here that it's a bit chicken and egg when it comes to facilities and success. Which comes first or should come first? If you want call the chicken success and facilities the egg all I can say is it's tough to create more chickens without them having eggs to develop the chickens in...

[bbtds]

I've said here that it's a bit chicken and egg when it comes to facilities and success. Which comes first or should come first? If you want call the chicken success and facilities the egg all I can say is it's tough to create more chickens without them having eggs to develop the chickens in...

Some buy their chickens at the P5 full grown store.

[UNIFTW]

It's clear that we are extreamly defensive about the quality of our school.  UNIFTW never questioned our school's quality, and we, in uber-defensive mode, lost sight of his key point:  THE DEFERENCE BETWEEN UNI AND VALPO IS THE THE INTENSITY AND ATHLETIC FOCUS OF ALUMNI SUPPORT. If we had even 50% of that, we'd at least have a rejuvenated (not necessarily rebuilt) ARC and other facility upgrades that let us not only talk the talk but walk the walk. His reference to "another Evansville" was a statement of how a once great program came into the MVC and couldn't perform to MVC standards.  Loyola was looking the same way, buy, evidently, they turned that around.  We came into the MVC with a great winning tradition, but we could just as easily duplicate Evansville's failure -- or Loyola's emergence.  But our tepid investment in the changeover, to outsiders based on past MVC experience, is to them an indicator that will exist until we find a way to prove them wrong.  And arguing about acadedemic standards and tuition costs a'int gonna get us anywhere. The mirror that UNIFTW held up to us is this:  are we ready to commit to playing (in all of it's aspects) with the bigger boys?  If yes, let's see some action.  If no, why are we in the MVC?  You can't have it half way. Yoda said it.  "Do.  Do not do. There is no try."

This is a good post. The best indicator of future happenings is past happenings. Look at the MVC and look at our past happenings - especially with private schools (which is why there is so much animosity between the public and private schools). The two more recent additions - other than Valpo - are Evansville and Loyola. You can point to their Final Four run this year as proof of something but time will tell how sustainable or lightning in a bottle that run was...I will point you to George Mason and VCU for what I'm talking about. Even beyond the mens basketball side of things Loyola and Evansville, as I've already mentioned, are pretty much bottom of the conference in every single sports, every single year. Add Drake in to that - who has dominated WBB and softball the last two or three years - yet is also in the bottom 3 or 4 of the all sports standings every single year. 


There is a division in the MVC between public and private schools. It comes from the public schools athletic departments being significantly a head, top to bottom, of private schools. Traditionally the response from private schools hasn't been "How do we get better?" it's been every excuse they can think of and then even excuses that are just random words thrown together.

Go back to before last basketball season and remember what all MVC fans were sold by Valpo fans. When expectations are set at that level and the results happen the way they did can you really blame anyone for looking at past results as an indication of what may come? Especially when discussions like this thread happen at that school? Get upset with me pointing that out all you want. That's fine. I hope you aren't that. I hope UNI and Valpo are 1-2 every year in MBB. I'd enjoy that.

[E-Villan]

Since either I am not smart enough to quote, or you have to have special Lutheran access, I will simply reply to UNI in regards that we did not step up in conference affiliation, rather a small step backwards. The MCC was a better conference top to bottom and we handled it quite well. Our first years in the Valley were fine. Our problems didn't start with the Valley, rather some horrible administration hires, that had little fire for athletics.


Congrats on having the better pool.

[VUGrad1314]

We're aware of the pressing need for facilities upgrades and we are making slow but sure progress. I think everyone from the administration to the AD is aware of this. If they decide to sit on their hands and let Valpo fall behind I and the majority of this board will be very unhappy. The question is will the will, the aggressiveness, and the money be there? With the endowment drive seemingly going well and nearing completion, I'd like to believe that we will see more athletics-centered construction or at least the rec center, soon which will open the door. How long can we afford to wait? The work being done at other universities suggests not long. I guess this is a roundabout way of saying we agree, I just didn't like the way you said it. That doesn't make you wrong or invalidate your points, it's just a tough mirror to look into as 62 mentioned.

[VUGrad1314]

Since either I am not smart enough to quote, or you have to have special Lutheran access, I will simply reply to UNI in regards that we did not step up in conference affiliation, rather a small step backwards. The MCC was a better conference top to bottom and we handled it quite well. Our first years in the Valley were fine. Our problems didn't start with the Valley, rather some horrible administration hires, that had little fire for athletics. Congrats on having the better pool.

I firmly believe this. The life and excitement the program is showing now that Marty is gone indicates that it must be so. Bad luck and bad decisions had the most to do with Evansville's troubles.

[VUGrad1314]

Here's a fact we can all agree on: we're all in this together and we're all chasing the same things: national respect and at large bids. If these weren't foremost goals, we wouldn't be here. To get there we need everybody public and private to be strong and committed. I think you will find over the years that we are.

[E-Villan]

It was way deeper than Marty. Sure, he was a wet blanket on the program, and had the PR skills of a sign post, but the last two presidents were most of the issue. Neither had much appetite for athletics, instead focusing on international recruitment, and liberal arts causes. We now have a very strong AD, and the incoming president has an extensive background in NCAA athletics, along with his wife.  Boosters are coming out of the woodwork, season ticket sales are soaring. Money is coming in and being spent. From what I have seen of the non-con, Walter wasn't joking when he said we needed to play tough teams.  No one knows how this will translate on the court, but the foundation is better than it has been in 20 years.

[VUGrad1314]

Where can I find some info on Evansville's non con? All I know is @Illinois

[E-Villan]

I will tell you there is another P6 road game, one that had a much higher RPI than Illinois, 3 solid regional programs, and no SWAC teams at this point.

[VUGrad1314]

Two rhumbs way up!

[usc4valpo]

Good point, but unfortunately our beloved alums has to work on a low rated morning show

[usc4valpo]

grad1314 - before we rip Evansville, Valpo first needs to defeat them in basketball competition, for which the Aces provided a sweep. Remember, we were last in the MVC last year.

So, if you look at history, Evansville has a proud basketball tradition - Jerry Sloan, a very good NBA player and a great NBA coach, is an alum. Blasphemous as it sounds, his accomplishments are greater than the Drew's. also, if you look at records, Evansville has dominated Valpo.

[NativeCheesehead]

I'll say this for the intensity of the MVC fan bases: We never had an Oakland fan and a Youngstown State fan back and forth s#&t talking each other on our board while we were in the Horizon.

[crusadermoe]

Let's be honest, VULB62 nails it.   Comparisons to the state schools is a fruitless waste of  time.  Comparison to Evansville is dead on the mark.   

E-Villan nails the reasons Evansville is lacking.  The last two presidents were more interested in international students and..(the arts?.).I have.no time to look at the prior posts).  Anyway his point is that neither of the two recent Presidents had a passion for athletics.  Heckler is in year #10. Not new by any means.  Does that sound familiar? 

In terms of our alumni, WHY DOE VU72 and many others assume our alumni are less wealthy than Drake and Bradley?   Could it also be the skill of the VU fund-raising team?  I have heard of many Valpo alumni who either have big wealth or have close connections to those people.  But they never get any contact.  Even blind squirrels find nuts. 

So why can't VU raise more dollars and a bigger pie to divide among projects university wide?  They didn't raise gifts for  the buildings as our financial statements demonstrate.  Based on our last 8 years of performance in fund-raising, I see a bigger likelihood that our basketball team rises up in the standings than our fund-raisers can move up in comparison to Drake, Bradley, and Evansvile.  Those are all schools where we compare in size and US News rank.

Is it time to ask why our alumni outreach and fund-raising sucks?  How many attend the alumni events in our key cities?  Time to smoke out those answers.

[crusader05]

I think that, much like our buildings, a big problem with athletic facilities has been waiting too long for the lead donor.

I wish we were moving faster for sure BUT:
if we look at athletics as a bigger picture we have seen: The installation of the new track. Face lifts of all locker rooms and weigh rooms, installing air conditioning in our practice facilities. A new softball field, updated tennis courts, and now an upgraded baseball field. Not to mention a new gym floor, a multi-million dollar recruiting endowment for basketball and internal upgrades to the ARC.

Now, very little of those are exciting, to be sure, but we need to walk before we can crawl. I have also heard that the order is coming from the top down that efforts need to be made to increase campus wide school spirit and engagement with our sporting events to match the increase in intensity of the MVC. I would also point to our football team as a sign of how, with good hires and cultivation of alumni with a little patience, success will come. I have put the administration on a bit of an internal clock which is: if we don't have an actual plan for the rec center by the end of next year to start fundraising around/or with at least one decent lead donor than I'd say we will be squandering success. But to have a blueprint out there to excite students and potential recruits as well as alumni it will make it easier to swallow a 4 year timeline before it's a reality. 2 years to fundraise, 2 years to build.