Buzz Williams leaving Marquette for VA Tech

[valpopal]

Speaking of Valparaiso's Lutheran connections, here is today's nice article about the Lutheran Basketball Association of America's tournament at the university this weekend: http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=64333

[a3uge]

To be fair, his entire timeline is hilarious. He hates Baylor basketball because Scott Drew texted recruits illegally, but loves the model citizen Bruce Pearl.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

He hates Baylor basketball because Scott Drew texted recruits illegally, but loves the model citizen Bruce Pearl.

This is true.

http://pantheru.com/2014/02/stuck-in-the-mud/

It's easy to point a finger at Coach and say "He's not getting it done. Look at X wins and Y losses. He's not achieving the way Bruce Pearl did." No, he's not. He also doesn't cheat, but our past is our past.

Let's take this moment so we can acknowledge that yes, I did say that Bruce Pearl cheated at Milwaukee. I talk to many of you, if not all of you, and I can't count how many stories I've heard of breaking and bending rules with this program. If you want to challenge it, go right ahead, but you know you're wrong. Walt Waters? Anthony Passley? To be sure, none of the stories I heard are morally ambiguous, they're just the lame rules that the NCAA came up with to promote an even playing field. Some of these rules have even been repealed. Even if you disagree, there are secondary violations on the books. It's not like we were hiding anything.

it hurts the most when a blog that does everything right like ours ends up giving hits to a blog that does everything wrong.

PS--why are we talking about the missouri synod and valpo again?

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2014, 11:22:33 PM
Concordia Wisconsin has more students butthey are all over the place

pretty sure that's an openly flagrant violation of Missouri Synod teaching

come on -- is this why?  first of all, this is just really freaking funny.

second of all, it's pretty clear I'm talking about Concordia, not VU, butthey, maybe i'm wrong and concordia does not always and everywhere = missouri synod.

should i have gone with wisconsin synod?  would that have been both more accurate and also funnier?  help a Catholic out here.

[ARCInsider]

Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2014, 11:22:33 PM
Concordia Wisconsin has more students butthey are all over the place

pretty sure that's an openly flagrant violation of Missouri Synod teaching

come on -- is this why?  first of all, this is just really freaking funny.

second of all, it's pretty clear I'm talking about Concordia, not VU, butthey, maybe i'm wrong and concordia does not always and everywhere = missouri synod.

should i have gone with wisconsin synod?  would that have been both more accurate and also funnier?  help a Catholic out here.

Yes, that would have been...."funnier."

[FWalum]

If you want to challenge it, go right ahead, but you know you're wrong. Walt Waters? Anthony Passley?

Wow, does that bring back memories.  Tony Passley was one intense player. I'll never forget getting the call and being told that after talking to Bruce Pearl we were going to give Tony a chance to get his life straight at Indiana Tech.  Unfortunately it did not work out and he never put on a uniform, but I don't think our players ever practiced the same again after playing with him.  He was 110% go all the time, a man among boys.  Tony transferred to USI for the fall of 2007 amid a fair amount of hoopla but never appeared on the roster.

[milanmiracle]

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...

It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League

[a3uge]

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...

It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League

The argument is "who knows?" doesn't seem very strong. Then you combine it with "it's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller" which is something that would be outside the control of yourself. So you're essentially saying Valpo couldn't have done anything differently and should have 0 blame for where they are? Not really following that logic.

Also, you're saying that in 2007, the move from the Mid Con to a the Horizon was lateral? We should've jumped up from the Summit to the MVC/A10 in 2007? I'm not really understanding your arguments here, but I do know the only response I'll get is "who knows" along with more bashing of how we didn't jump from the MidCon to a multi-bid conference without any logical explanation of the route to get there. Were you expecting back to back NCAA championship game appearances while still in the Summit league?

[crusaderjoe]

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

This is more for arguments sake, but what if Valpo had been able to help charter the MCC in the late 70's with Butler, Loyola, and Evansville instead of the Mid-Con in 1982?

[wh]

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...

It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League

Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly.  It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.  Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later?  Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son?  You can answer that for yourself.  In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant. 

Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result.  So what did we lose by waiting 7 years?  We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story.  Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.

So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year?  Again, you can answer that for yourself.   

[valpotx]

I have always said that Steinbrecher was terrible for our athletics program development in the late 90s and early 2000s...

[valporun]

Tx, I have to agree with you. I didn't have much interaction with AD Steinbrecher, but it always seemed that he was sitting in his office watching all of our programs and facilities decay to the point of "biding their time", instead of proactively getting things going to upgrade facilities, or get some of our programs moving forward. He definitely had loyalty, but it was loyalty in the wrong areas of athletics.

[milanmiracle]

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...

It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League

Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly.  It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.  Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later?  Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son?  You can answer that for yourself.  In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant. 

Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result.  So what did we lose by waiting 7 years?  We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story.  Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.

So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year?  Again, you can answer that for yourself.   

Pretty much sums that up in a nutshell

[valpo84]

There is much to discuss about the future of Valpo athletics, but the pot shots at the Steinbrechers and the aspirsions expressed are neither helpful not true. If they help people with their feelings that more could have been done in the wake of 98 and it allows you to sleep at night ... fine. But castigating people with unfounded and feckless information is just plain mean-spirited in this time of Lent. I am disappointed by the tenor of this discussion.

1.

[IndyValpo]

This is more for arguments sake, but what if Valpo had been able to help charter the MCC in the late 70's with Butler, Loyola, and Evansville instead of the Mid-Con in 1982?

Agreed but at the time we were a wreck still playing in Hilltop Gym I believe.  Some theorize that the original name Midwestern Cities Conference was chosen to make sure we were kept out.

Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly.  It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.

Well, if a guy from Wright State said it then it must be gospel. I am not sure it is common knowledge, not even sure it is true.

[setshot]

Good old Nepo. U.

[Dave_2010]

This is more for arguments sake, but what if Valpo had been able to help charter the MCC in the late 70's with Butler, Loyola, and Evansville instead of the Mid-Con in 1982?

Agreed but at the time we were a wreck still playing in Hilltop Gym in believe.  Some theorize that the original name Midwestern Cities Conference was chosen to make sure we were kept out.

Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly.  It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.

Well, if a guy from Wright State said it then it must be gospel. I am not sure it is common knowledge, not even sure it is true.

I refuse to believe a word of this until it's confirmed by a reputable source like Jimmy from PantherU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[historyman]

There is much to discuss about the future of Valpo athletics, but the pot shots at the Steinbrechers and the aspirsions expressed are neither helpful not true. If they help people with their feelings that more could have been done in the wake of 98 and it allows you to sleep at night ... fine. But castigating people with unfounded and feckless information is just plain mean-spirited in this time of Lent. I am disappointed by the tenor of this discussion. 1.

I have to agree with 84.

I believe Bill Steinbrecher was thinking that he was acting in the best interests of VU. You make decisions based on the info and gut feelings you have. It had been only a few years before that 5 of the schools in the Mid-Con had left Valpo behind and jumped to the MCCities after promising to stay in the Mid-Con at one of it's administration meetings. Do you jump back into the lions den? When the HL invited Valpo in 2007 much of the personnel at those universities who conspired to leave Valpo in the dust had changed and ML used the info and gut feelings he had in 2007 to make what was the best decision. He had no way of knowing Butler would bolt for the A-10/Big East in a few years. As Bill S. didn't know if the 5 would bolt again to another conference such as the A-10 or Big East and leave Valpo behind.

All the hate over Valpo's situation with staying in the Mid-Con till 2007 can not be heaped on the Steinbrechers and the truth of the situation is certainly not known. I personally know that Bill has much more integrity than to let a family situation dictate all his actions in choosing which conference affliation was best for Valpo. 

[vu72]

Tx, I have to agree with you. I didn't have much interaction with AD Steinbrecher, but it always seemed that he was sitting in his office watching all of our programs and facilities decay to the point of "biding their time", instead of proactively getting things going to upgrade facilities, or get some of our programs moving forward. He definitely had loyalty, but it was loyalty in the wrong areas of athletics.

He may having been "biding his time" but the facts don't back up your statement.  I'll always remember Mark LaBarbera coming up to Minneapolis for our annual golf tournament with Bill who had just finished his last year.  Mark commented on what a tall task it will be to post the kind of results Bill and Valpo produced during his final year, 2003-2004.

2003 Football--Pioneer Football League Champs
2003-04 Men's Basketball--NCAA Tournament participants
2003-04 Women's Basketball--NCAA Tournament Participants
2003 Volleyball--NCAA Tournament Participants

I think any of us would be satisfied with these results next year, particularly with the improvement in other sports.  Still, winning the football championship and having your flagship teams go to the NCAAs is pretty nice.

[Kyle321n]

This is more for arguments sake, but what if Valpo had been able to help charter the MCC in the late 70's with Butler, Loyola, and Evansville instead of the Mid-Con in 1982?

Agreed but at the time we were a wreck still playing in Hilltop Gym in believe.  Some theorize that the original name Midwestern Cities Conference was chosen to make sure we were kept out.

Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly.  It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.

Well, if a guy from Wright State said it then it must be gospel. I am not sure it is common knowledge, not even sure it is true.

I refuse to believe a word of this until it's confirmed by a reputable source like Jimmy from PantherU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[valpotx]

When I was in school during that time period I mentioned, several coaches mentioned that we wouldn't leave the Mid-Con for as long as Steinbrecher was our AD.  He had an affinity for the Mid-Con since he essentially helped to create it, and kept it together during the exodus.  I can't blame him for having an affinity for that reason, but I can blame him for not taking a better situation.  Can you honestly sit there and tell me that flying to Southern Utah, Centenary, etc, was better than moving to the HL??  Even if a few teams left the HL when we joined, there would still be much better competition and closer geography in any teams left over.  For this reason, I say that our athletic program DEVELOPMENT was stifled during this time period by him.  We won a few NCAA bids, yes, but we didn't turn that into other positives.  None of what I am saying is mean-spirited, and I am not religious, so the lent thing doesn't apply anyways

[a3uge]

Jimmy actually had the scoop 6 years in advance.

[a3uge]

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...

It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League

Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly.  It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.  Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later?  Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son?  You can answer that for yourself.  In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant. 

Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result.  So what did we lose by waiting 7 years?  We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story.  Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.

So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year?  Again, you can answer that for yourself.   

Pretty much sums that up in a nutshell

So if was a lateral move, why would you be clapping wh? What would it matter if we didn't join the Horizon or not in 2001 as opposed to 2007?

[wh]

Which part of my post did you not read?

[a3uge]

Which part of my post did you not read?

That was directed at milanmiracle, not you (notice no comma between clapping and wh). He said we have only moved latterly since 97. In order to jump to a A10/MVC conference we'd have to be in the Horizon, which he argued is a lateral move. So clapping at the notion we made a mistake by not joining the Horizon sooner was kind of weird.

If it is true we turned down a bid, it was a mistake. Obviously. But I would still be skeptical that we actually turned down a conference in order to play games against Chicago State twice a year.

But let's assume that's true and let's pretend we took the bid in 2001. If we were in the same league still would that be disappointing? There's only been 1 defect since then. Should UWM, UWGB, Detroit, UIC, Wright State, Cleveland State, YSU be even more disappointed?