What is the deal with Keith Carter? I thought this guy was going to be a savior to take this hoops team to the next level. Is he injured? Is the system not compatible with his skills? Was he overhyped?
He hasn't even had a full college season yet and has less experience than our freshman. Give him time he'll come around.
I think he's been playing much better as of late. I think he'll be our starting PG next season, and he plays with a lot of speed and a lot of passion.
Until mid-December he basically didn't play for almost 2 years straight, only appeared in a few games for SLU. From what I've seen over the past few games he shows a ton of promise and has been seeing more time than Lexus. His quickness reminds me a lot of Erik Buggs but he's a better shooter, not great but Bryce seems to turn mediocre to sub-par shooters into a threat on the perimeter.
He'll be on the HL 1st or 2nd team next season. If the team decided to play yesterday he would've had 7 or 8 assists. There's no question he has a ton of talent and I love the risk taking as well. Give him some time and he'll be very special.
He definitely doesn't look all that good to me. Hard to believe he was runner up Mr basketball. To me, Lexus is by far a better point guard.
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For someone who is a runner up for Mr. Illinois Basketball and had a lot of hype on his transfer, I think it is fair to say that he has not met expectations. That being said, Valpo will be better in the next year or two.
You asked that in the other thread, after someone had already said
Quote from: HC on March 01, 2014, 10:21:30 PMThe guys didn't look too interested in playing that second half with the exception of Keith Carter who was at least playing hard.
Sooooooo...yeah, don't know what to tell you; maybe he hasn't yet played worthy of "the second-best player in the state of Illinois in 2012 to Jabari Parker", but I'm still hopeful based on flashes of good play.
Especially considering he's had a year away from competitive basketball, because of both injury and transferring.
Do we know for sure we only have him two more years? Does someone in the know know if the university is applying for the medshirt for him?
This is just a plain stupid thread.
Quote from: FWalum on March 02, 2014, 11:25:33 PMThis is just a plain stupid thread.
(https://pfimg.playfire.com/_proxy/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.pbase.com%2Fo6%2F42%2F577342%2F1%2F85514058.JM8in0AI.endTHREAD.jpg&hmac=20b4bc23c058eb372ff2371f17fed903)
I think sometime we, as a fan base, get a bit stupid about players..... I remember threads where people were saying we would have won a game if he played. Over hyping a player makes for questions like this because then some start drinking the cool-aid.
Keith is a good player and ultimately we will be very happy to have him on the team but to expect him as essentially a freshman to make us win every game is insane thinking. (When I go to a movie thinking it is going to be the best movie I have ever seen I am probably going to be disappointed.)
I think Keith has lived up to my expectations and I am looking forward to watching him play over the next couple years.
Quote from: Smj on March 03, 2014, 08:04:08 AMI remember threads where people were saying we would have won a game if he played.
I don't think every game, but given some of our close ones, he would have made a difference.
You think he wouldn't have had something to prove versus Saint Louis?
FWalum hit it on the head...it is foolish to be so critical of KC...HE HAS ONLY PLAYED A HANDFUL OF GAMES AS A COLLEGIAN...in fact he has played less than our heralded frosh this year...for cryin' out loud, give the kid a chance to establish himself
considering the huge hype on this kid in November and December, I would not consider this a stupid thread. He was a Chicago HS legend. Just asking, and yes we should give him a chance.
Carter seems to play good defense, but his ball handling skills need some work. He can't really create anything and seems to struggle when pressed. I think he will probably take over Dority's spot next year and become more of a como guard instead of a true point. Dority struggled last year at the point too (remember blowing the lead to Detroit when Buggs fouled out?), but look at him this year: he was a 1st teamer.
Quote from: a3uge on March 03, 2014, 12:58:43 PMmore of a como guard
(http://cmsimg.news-leader.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=DO&Date=20130313&Category=NEWS08&ArtNo=303130102&Ref=AR&MaxW=300&Border=0&Pennsylvania-borough-renovations-silence-Perry-Como-statue)
Quote from: a3uge on March 03, 2014, 12:58:43 PMcomo guard
Isn't that the Lake Como Coast Guard?
http://www.militarysingles.com/military/coastguard-dating/florida-lakecomo3.htm (http://www.militarysingles.com/military/coastguard-dating/florida-lakecomo3.htm)
Sigh. Never let a typo go to waist.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 02, 2014, 06:16:16 PM
For someone who is a runner up for Mr. Illinois Basketball and had a lot of hype on his transfer, I think it is fair to say that he has not met expectations. That being said, Valpo will be better in the next year or two.
I would add that last year I was seeing a lot of the same criticism of LVD. There were posters who wanted him benched. Today he is a HL 1st teamer. My thought is that this kid needs to be given some slack.
OK, OK, I will be nice! All I am saying is that he got a lot of hype in November and early December.
The tools are there. Watch the kid play without looking at the stats. His on the ball defense is excellent and his court vision IMHO is the best on the team. It is tough coming in half way through the year and being given the reins when everyone is use to something else. I really got the feeling that he was tentative and was never able to get into the flow because he had to fit into the fact that this was someone else's team. I applaud his attitude of not come in and trying to take over like he did in HS. He played within the constraints of this team's system. This will be his team one day and I think he will shine.
Keith can play and hes got confidence out there with that 3
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 04, 2014, 09:56:17 PMhe got a lot of hype in November and early December.
And hype has never won a basketball game or changed the quality of a player. It's just hype and means nothing!
I figured I could give this topic a bump since it directly relates to KC...
Anyways, anybody have any idea on when KC will be back? Nothing has been said anywhere or any sort of timeline has been given. He's missed a month of the season, he has to be getting close and I'm hoping he's started practicing again? I know he's been off crutches for a while, which is good. Just the no news has been killing me.
He has started walking, but it doesn't seem he is ready to make a cut. He is allowing a partially torn ligament to heal.
I'm looking forward to getting Keith back as well. I think that the team is learning how to deal with this adversity, and will become better when everyone is healthy.
So long the KC is back to 100% come tourney time I think missing him for a good chunk will pay its dividends. It has definitely helped with the development of EVN who I now trust in key situations handling the ball, if you look at his stats he has cut the turnovers down by quite a bit. Getting EVN experience at the point gives us an extra-dimension very few teams have, a 6' 7" PG, and nobody in the HL does, so if we do play GB in the tourney with a healthy KC, we know that EVN can shut-down Sykes, we also know KC is a lock down defender as well.
I am hoping KC is available in two weeks for the GB return game. If he is we should win. If he's back to 100% come early March we should be the best team in the HL.
Whatever happens, the wins we've had where Keith has been sitting have been helpful in our pursuit of a postseason run. The NCAA committee will look at our play during the time without KC favorably because we didn't give up because we were missing a link to winning. Think back to when Cincinnati lost Kenyon Martin in the conference tourney (Big East for them, or was it Conference USA?), and how it ended their season. We've won games without KC, regardless of how good or bad our conference is, we have players who have stepped up when and where they've needed to. Unlike some teams, where the loss of one player ends the season, Valpo has the leadership to step up and be the "missing link" to keep the season going strong. If its Nickerson, Walkers, Joseph, we have someone who can step up whenever needed, and helps when Peters has all the defensive focus on him. If it takes Keith time to get back to where he is 100% or effective again, we don't have to go crazy waiting. We have a team that can do it with or without Keith in uniform. We've seen it in this month, regardless of whom we played. I'm not worried about how we'll play, or when Keith gets back to full strength. I'm not as concerned about how he's recovering, because we have the pieces to keep the puzzle moving forward. We have the guys to step up. Just like Norman Dale, when the team was down a player, "My team is on the floor". He put trust in the players on the court. Our season isn't over because KC or Lexus are out.
Hard to believe that Keith is closing in on the end of his Junior year of college ball and has only played in 42 games.
I have a feeling Bryce didn't want to admit that Keith will be out for most of February to our opponents, who then had to prepare in case Keith played in the end of January games (YSU on road, GB and Milw). Once it was learned that Keith had torn a ligament in the toe it was pretty evident he would not return till the end of February. That ligament tear and damage in the toe will take another 3 weeks. It sure sounded like Bryce was hoping for a quick return from Keith due to Keith's great determination to get well faster than normal. I have a feeling due to the ligament tear in the toe Keith will not return until the game at Milwaukee or Wright State at home. It would be extremely nice to have Keith back for the GB game at home 2/13 but it probably won't happen.
Has the ligament tear been reported, or is it just speculation?
Quote from: covufan on January 29, 2015, 02:21:14 PMHas the ligament tear been reported, or is it just speculation?
Has anything "officially" been reported about Keith's injury? Other than Bryce's non-committal statements on the coach's show that he does with Todd which are posted on the athletics website there has been nothing. The info about the torn ligament was passed by the training staff to a poster that talks with them regularly.
If you hadn't seen it during the game against YSU at the ARC and read posts about it on this message board would you have known about the injury? In the past we have had players show up to games with injuries that we didn't know anything about till they were actually sitting on the bench when they would normally be playing. When has any injury actually been made "official?"
Carter has taken off the boot and is exercising as part of his rehabilitation. Timetable for his return still uncertain. Lexus had surgery on his kneecap yesterday, but is hoped to be fully recovered for next season after a long rehab schedule.
Quote from: valpopal on January 29, 2015, 03:34:30 PM
Carter has taken off the boot and is exercising as part of his rehabilitation. Timetable for his return still uncertain. Lexus had surgery on his kneecap yesterday, but is hoped to be fully recovered for next season after a long rehab schedule.
For covufan's sake is that report on Keith's injury speculation or official? ;)
Quote from: bbtds on January 29, 2015, 03:44:59 PM
Quote from: valpopal on January 29, 2015, 03:34:30 PM
Carter has taken off the boot and is exercising as part of his rehabilitation. Timetable for his return still uncertain. Lexus had surgery on his kneecap yesterday, but is hoped to be fully recovered for next season after a long rehab schedule.
For covufan's sake is that report on Keith's injury speculation or official? ;)
I was just curious after the post by humbleopinion earlier today, which was the first I had heard of the partial tear.
If the post is from valpopal, I don't consider it speculation. ;D
According to an Oren tweet about oh 25 minutes ago, he stated that Bryce mentioned a strained ligament in addition to the dislocated toe. Not a torn ligament. If that is the case he could be back sooner than we thought. From what I have heard, we were actually hoping to have Keith back on the court for Milwaukee. But that is just word of mouth.
Quote from: valpo4life on January 29, 2015, 04:12:49 PMFrom what I have heard, we were actually hoping to have Keith back on the court for Milwaukee. But that is just word of mouth.
Now I think the board is venturing into the area of speculation. ;)
valpopal=official for message board, not official for VU
humbleopinion=speculation, but very knowledgeable
valpo4life=speculation, unknown whether knowledgeable about men's team, questionable knowledge about women's team.
Anyone want to add any comments?
I think my sources were pretty reliable. -- they were Keith and Homer speaking prior to the Milwaukee game.
Maybe they were speculating...
I will say my source is directly involved with the men's team and said the "initial goal" was for Keith to be back for Milwaukee or UIC. I never said they expected to have him back by either of the games. Just that they were hoping.
In my opinion, I'm ready for Keith Carter to return when his body is ready for him to return. Right now, based on how we've played with KC out, I'm not worried about us winning or losing games because he isn't in the lineup. The guys have picked up the missing pieces and placed themselves where needed. I'm glad this team hasn't let one injury to anyone get them down. This is a good team with moveable pieces. We aren't a one-trick pony this year. We are a TEAM!!
Quote from: valporun on January 30, 2015, 12:12:52 PM
In my opinion, I'm ready for Keith Carter to return when his body is ready for him to return. Right now, based on how we've played with KC out, I'm not worried about us winning or losing games because he isn't in the lineup. The guys have picked up the missing pieces and placed themselves where needed. I'm glad this team hasn't let one injury to anyone get them down. This is a good team with moveable pieces. We aren't a one-trick pony this year. We are a TEAM!!
And I think everyone on this board agrees with you. We're just speculating based on who was heard what to when we may see him again. We're all hoping he isn't rushed back into play, but also ideally want him to get a couple games in before the big ones in March. Even if we were to learn he's done for the season, I would still have confidence in this team to win the league.
Wonder if we will see Keith in uniform this week
Quote from: truth219 on February 03, 2015, 01:09:41 PM
Wonder if we will see Keith in uniform this week
Most likely just in this uniform
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/valpotorch.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/c7/2c7c4cac-822d-11e4-96d8-4bdbe8e365cc/548b34dcaacc4.image.jpg?resize=507%2C760)
for a while before we see Keith in this uniform
(http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/nwitimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/0a/90adba39-3cad-5915-96fb-e2790a16b9ef/54a5d1f29a29b.preview-620.jpg)
Paul Oren reports today that Keith has begun shooting free throws and riding a bike. Sounds like no running, jumping, etc. yet so his return is still several days or more away. As said previously, let's get him healthy and in shape before asking him to play. As we all know it's the HL tournament that's most important and, yes, I know his presence might increase our chances of hosting it.
Who knows how seriously he meant it, or how seriously to take it. But, in Paul Oren's blog post looking ahead to the rest of conference play
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/twas-the-month-before-madness-horizon-league/article_f3281130-ac24-11e4-958e-13f868bbf856.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/twas-the-month-before-madness-horizon-league/article_f3281130-ac24-11e4-958e-13f868bbf856.html)
he mentions Keith as "probably back" for Feb 27 at CSU. And doesn't mention anything about Keith re the Feb 13 game where UWGB comes to town.
Quote from: agibson on February 04, 2015, 11:32:53 AM
Who knows how seriously he meant it, or how seriously to take it. But, in Paul Oren's blog post looking ahead to the rest of conference play
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/twas-the-month-before-madness-horizon-league/article_f3281130-ac24-11e4-958e-13f868bbf856.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/twas-the-month-before-madness-horizon-league/article_f3281130-ac24-11e4-958e-13f868bbf856.html)
he mentions Keith as "probably back" for Feb 27 at CSU. And doesn't mention anything about Keith re the Feb 13 game where UWGB comes to town.
That guy is really psycho, I mean psychic.
Quote from: bbtds on February 04, 2015, 12:44:01 PM
Quote from: agibson on February 04, 2015, 11:32:53 AM
Who knows how seriously he meant it, or how seriously to take it. But, in Paul Oren's blog post looking ahead to the rest of conference play
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/twas-the-month-before-madness-horizon-league/article_f3281130-ac24-11e4-958e-13f868bbf856.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/twas-the-month-before-madness-horizon-league/article_f3281130-ac24-11e4-958e-13f868bbf856.html)
he mentions Keith as "probably back" for Feb 27 at CSU. And doesn't mention anything about Keith re the Feb 13 game where UWGB comes to town.
That guy is really psycho, I mean psychic.
If only that guy was any good at predicting over/unders ;)
Quote from: agibson on February 04, 2015, 11:32:53 AMhe mentions Keith as "probably back" for Feb 27 at CSU.
I hope to be proved wrong but I am now resigned to the possibility that Keith may not be of much help for the remainder of this season. Unless this is a deliberate smoke screen, a late February return means he wouldn't even have time to polish off the rust and find his new role prior to the tournament. Not good!
My new bumper sticker is SINK OR SWIM WITH EVN
I'm afraid you're right. It would be 1 thing if he was recovering from an upper body injury like a shoulder. He could still be running wind sprints and staying in basketball shape. Keith hasn't so much as jogged for weeks now. Even if he's been riding a bike, he can't possibly be anywhere close to maximum basketball condition. His recovery is going to take however it's going to take. But, to your point, if he doesn't come back until the last week of February, we might as well stop thinking about it.
I really thought that this stretch of games we're in right now (UWM, UIC, Detroit, Oakland) would have been great to bring him back IF he was healthy. If he had 2 games to kick off rust before the Green Bay game I thought that would be perfect. Now that we're 2 games out form the GB game I kind of would like him to come back after Green Bay since I don't want him being rusty and possibly a little slow against the league's best PG. Then he can shake off rust against Milwaukee, Wright St. and Detroit that would be great, have him at 100% for Cleveland St. and the tourney.
We've proven that EVN and Max can handle their own against Keifer. It was his worst offensive performance in 3 seasons and Max looked pretty good out there offensively. If Tevonn can shoot better than 10% from the field at home, and let's hope he can, we should be to take the GB game without Keith.
And if you had told me before the season that without Lexus and Keith we'd be 6-1 I would have told you we played UIC twice (true) and then our non D1's in the other games. Certainly not Wright State and Cleveland State.
Don't read anything into when I mentioned Keith in the blog breakdown. I'm not sure when he's returning, but I'd have to assume it's by/before the season finale. Bryce Drew was pretty clear to Osipoff and I that they expect Carter to play at some point this season.
Just learned we'll be missing a fan tonight. Dot Neuchterlein will be missing tonight's game; she fell on the ice the other night and did a real number on her ankle. I guess even Rod Moore couldn't tape it up and send her back in the game.
If my eyes serve me right the boot is off!
Ickow said KC should be back for the GB game next Friday, this weekend is doubtful but is a possibility. Looking forward to getting him back, when he went down I thought that would prove difficult for this team to overcome and they have only lost once, on the road, to Green Bay, by a single point. Not bad without one of the best players on the team as well as the quarterback of the offense going down. Top-tier teams overcome big losses, we haven't just overcome the loss of KC for a month+ but we've excelled.
Class of 2014 and I heard the comment differently. I heard that he definitely would not play this weekend and that Green Bay was a possibility.
Quote from: sliman on February 04, 2015, 09:58:46 PM
Class of 2014 and I heard the comment differently. I heard that he definitely would not play this weekend and that Green Bay was a possibility.
To me it sounded like it's highly doubtful he'll play on Sunday but can't be ruled out and he is probable for the Green Bay game next Friday. Ickow said he's been practicing and the boot is off, as you could see on the bench yesterday, anyways he'll be back before the regular season is over and most likely his first game back will be a big one against Green Bay. Hopefully he'll be ready and the offense can adjust to having him back running the point immediately.
The UDM Sports Info Guy asked me last night if KC was in Bryce's doghouse as to why he wasn't playing... When I told him the story, he said "So how many points guards do you have". ... and I said "Just Enough."
Did anyone catch the Scholarship Phrase the students needed to log their attendance at the game? last week was Tevonn... game before than was Alec... last night: 219. Classic!
Quote from: talksalot on February 05, 2015, 02:12:32 PMThe UDM Sports Info Guy asked me last night if KC was in Bryce's doghouse as to why he wasn't playing...
Are you kidding me... The Sports Information Director should have his finger on the pulse of Horizon League basketball and he didn't know about a significant injury to one of the opponents key players???? It your JOB to be informed :banghead:
Quote from: talksalot on February 05, 2015, 02:12:32 PMThe UDM Sports Info Guy asked me last night if KC was in Bryce's doghouse as to why he wasn't playing... When I told him the story, he said "So how many points guards do you have". ... and I said "Just Enough." Did anyone catch the Scholarship Phrase the students needed to log their attendance at the game? last week was Tevonn... game before than was Alec... last night: 219. Classic!
I have a suggestion for Sunday. "Felder not fouled"
I haven't been on the Saint Louis message board lately so I thought I would check in there. I noticed this post about Keith. It recaps the Billiken recruiting through the last few years.
Then a couple months later in Nov. 2011, Keith Carter signs. I still contend this signing made a lot of sense. Majerus values stacking several guys who could run the point. There is no doubt his departure is hurting us this season. While I don't think the kid would have been a superstar - he has started every game this season, averaged 9 ppg and has 61 assists to 34 turnovers. He is the true point guard this team is lacking and would have helped ease the transition this year. I don't blame Crews or anybody for the kid leaving. Maybe he just wanted to play for RM or was simply a tool. If he was more patient and stuck around, he would have been our starting PG for two years.
Funny how valuable Keith is now that he is contributing for Valpo. This post was before Carter went down with his toe injury.
The KC transfer is really killing us, but I don't think there was much Crews could do about that.
Keith Carter on our roster would probably be worth 2-3 more wins so far this season.
Speaking of Keith Carter........
Valpo is 14-3. They are a top 100 team. Their two best players are Carter and Alec Peters. One is a kid we had and the other is a recruit we missed on.
Peters would have been a great fit for a Majerus team. Valpo has played a really week schedule though. Most of their Ws have come vs. sub 200 teams.
Yes, their record is a little deceiving. They are a pretty good team though. Should present a good challenge to for Green Bay in the Horizon.
It was a shame he went down when he did but I would say he's back to the KC of early January.
Last night he had 8 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, and 2 steals. He played great, hit the biggest shot of the night and was money from the charity stripe as well. Without KC we don't win last night. When both EVN and KC are on the court it sure is fun to watch.
Quote from: classof2014 on March 11, 2015, 09:44:47 PMIt was a shame he went down when he did but I would say he's back to the KC of early January.
I believe Keith recently referred to his game as being at 80%. Pre championship my guess was 85 to 90%. I am not certain that early January should even be the proper starting point for comparison because his play then was so rapidly improving. Either way I am looking forward to him showing us much more in his future than he already has in his past. A fully matured 100% sounds like so much fun for the Valpo faithful!