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Horizon League considering Detroit as tourney location?

Started by valpopal, May 05, 2015, 05:52:53 PM

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bbtds

Quote from: a3uge on May 07, 2015, 08:34:23 PM
Quote from: gamelord on May 07, 2015, 08:30:14 PM
The thing that upsets me the most is that it is effective immediately. I would be more willing to accept it if this was going to be done gradually...in 2 years or so. To me this is a big slap to Valpo. I'm starting to think a move back down to the Summit League would be better than staying in a conference that doesn't care about its top school.

You do realize they play their championship game in Souix Falls, right?
Actually the Summit League has played the SL tourney in Sioux Falls since the time that Tulsa's hosting ended.

Where is Souix Falls? Is that in Illinois? Kansas? Nebraska? Minnesota?




Does Souix (So-ou-iks?) Falls look anything like Sioux (Soo) Falls?

valpotx

I am glad to see that MLB is on the same page as most of the fans on the conference championship selection.  Interesting note with the Sioux Falls reference, but I will actually be there in 3 weeks for a cousin's wedding :)
"Don't mess with Texas"

a3uge

I have no regrets. There shouldn't be an x in that word anyways.

historyman

Quote from: a3uge on May 07, 2015, 05:12:49 PM
Quote from: covufan on May 07, 2015, 04:54:00 PM
Quote from: Kyle321n on May 07, 2015, 03:02:50 PMI think they are waiting to announce the 10th team and then they'll announce a 10 team bracket format. 1 vs double bye 2 vs. double bye 3 vs 10 4 vs 9 5 vs 8 6 vs 7
If the 10th team is NKU, will they be eligible for the HL tournament/NCAA tournament?
Yes, they are eligible immediately.

From another thread:

Quote from: bbtds on January 12, 2015, 06:44:07 PM
Quote from: valporun on January 12, 2015, 05:29:16 PMIn terms of expansion, doesn't Northern Kentucky still have a couple of seasons before they are full-fledged members of D-I? I mean, they are probationary members of D-I currently, correct?
NKU is in the process of classifying to the NCAA Division I. During the four-year reclassification, NKU will not be eligible for Division I championships. The university ended its membership in the Great Lakes Valley Conference (GLVC) at the conclusion of the 2011–12 academic year and began playing a full Atlantic Sun conference schedule in fall 2012. Following the four years, NKU will become a full Division I member.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Kentucky_Norse

That means the Norse will be full fledged Div. I members as of the conclusion of the 2015-16 academic year.
It sounds like if NKU was added over this summer that they would not be eligible for the HL tournament until the 2016-17 season and could not participate in the HL tournament in Joe Louis Arena in Detroit in March of 2016.
"We must stand aside from the world's conspiracy of fear and hate and grasp once more the great monosyllables of life: faith, hope, and love. Men must live by these if they live at all under the crushing weight of history." Otto Paul "John" Kretzmann

crusaderjoe

Quote from: a3uge on May 07, 2015, 08:32:28 PM
Quote from: Chairback on May 07, 2015, 08:20:26 PM
I don't get why everyone still thinks a move to the MVC is possible in the future.  I don't see them adding a team unless Wichita bolts which I don't think they will.  If they did add two teams I think it would be Murray St and Belmont.   To be honest I think we are stuck in the Horizon League for a long long time.

We got passed up and Loyola was chosen over us.  There is no commitment on needed facility improvements.  We have poor attendance, poor marketing exposure,  and we cannot beat a major team.   So we really are not that attractive to other leagues.

I am willing to bet in the next 2-5 years IUPUI and IPFW join the Horizon.

Explain which major teams exactly did Loyola beat to make them attractive?

To be fair, you don't have to necessarily beat anyone to be attractive to a new conference when you've allocated substantial dollars to both athletic and academic or student experience facilities like Loyola has done recently.

You should know that it's sometimes not about on-field or on-court results when it comes to conference realignment.  Of substantial note, Rutgers did what exactly to warrant entry into the Big 10?

VULB#62

Quote from: crusaderjoe on May 08, 2015, 10:52:05 AM
You should know that it's sometimes not about on-field or on-court results when it comes to conference realignment.  Of substantial note, Rutgers did what exactly to warrant entry into the Big 10?

Simply put....They did be in the NY metro area TV market.

valpopal

#81
Check out over on the Milwaukee fan board where Hack has posted a nice gallery of videos displaying the packed houses and energetic crowds at Horizon League championships on campus sites over the past 10 years (link below). On twitter, PantherU said he has talked to many coaches and this Horizon League championship experience was envied by quite a few mid-major coaches. So far, LeCrone has pretended to have enthusiastic and positive responses to the league's announcement, even among the Horizon League coaches; however, other than Kampe, I have heard nothing but the sound of crickets coming from the coaches' offices around the league. Indeed, the poor rollout of this plan and the lack of acknowledgement to widespread negative fan response seem evidence of a lacking already in the new promotional genius for branding and marketing heralded by the announcement.

This should be required viewing for every Horizon League official: http://uwmfreak.proboards.com/thread/6859/hl-tournament-neutral?page=4

a3uge

Maybe they voted on a neutral court before knowing the location? Hard to imagine Milwaukee and Green Bay being okay with 5 years of Detroit when Chicago or Indy could have been decent neutral locations.

VULB#62

The fact that it seems have been rammed through and that at least 2 schools said no and that most  school supporters are basically negative tells me that Lecrone has gone to the Roger Goodell school of management.   

FWalum

What the heck is this Detroit News writer talking about....??? Moving Horizon League Tourney
QuoteThe Detroit plan puts the whole tournament, including opening-round games, in the city, a single site, regardless if Oakland or Detroit happen to be eliminated before the championship game.

Therefore, this could give the tournament a bigger spotlight, in a bigger media market than, say, Valparaiso. That's welcomed news for ESPN, which retains the rights to broadcast the championship game — and figures to be much more likely to put the final on ESPN rather than ESPN2 if there's not a bunch of empty seats, like there often is when the game is held at a campus site.
Obviously didn't attend many Horizon League Championship games.
My current favorite podcast: The Glenn Loury Show https://bloggingheads.tv/programs/glenn-show

a3uge

Quote from: FWalum on May 09, 2015, 12:41:47 AM
What the heck is this Detroit News writer talking about....??? Moving Horizon League Tourney
QuoteThe Detroit plan puts the whole tournament, including opening-round games, in the city, a single site, regardless if Oakland or Detroit happen to be eliminated before the championship game.

Therefore, this could give the tournament a bigger spotlight, in a bigger media market than, say, Valparaiso. That's welcomed news for ESPN, which retains the rights to broadcast the championship game — and figures to be much more likely to put the final on ESPN rather than ESPN2 if there's not a bunch of empty seats, like there often is when the game is held at a campus site.
Obviously didn't attend many Horizon League Championship games.

Haha. Why would anyone write that? Never mind the nonsense claim that there has been empty seats at championship games and that a game in Detroit would fill a 22,000 seat stadium. ESPN is going to put the championship game on the top network based off of television viewership, not how many people are in the stands. Does the MAC have a bigger spotlight right now because it's being held in Cleveland? Laughable because the game in the Valparaiso media market was on ESPN1 while the MAC empty-seat final was on ESPN2, despite having a school that would wind up a better seed.

elephtheria47

I think the new format will help fans who need to make plans sooner than a week or two in advance. Also, agree with the 'major' city comments although not sure how 'attractive' Detroit is....I will miss having the tournament in Valpo.

Here's a thought though - - how does Valpo playing in front of its own fans, on its own Court (4,000 attendance) help them prepare for the NCAA tournament where it is neutral with 15,000+ in attendance? This will now at least give the winner a chance to play on a neutral atmosphere in an arena setting - - much like the NCAA tournament games.

As an aside, I've been to Sioux Falls this past summer. I really liked the city. I would go to a city like that to watch a weekend tournament. Detroit? I'll pass...

motowntitan

Quote from: webbvufan on May 06, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
Quote from: motowntitan on May 06, 2015, 06:31:53 PM
The big problem I have with all the whining amongst everyone is that you want to be considered a better league, then you need to accept the neutral site games.  The nice thing is that anyone who wants to support the league will know they need to be in Detroit/Chi-town/Indy for the specific weekend before the season starts.


Even if BigD is correct, 5 straight years in Detroit is not "neutral".  It may be about as far from neutral as it can be.  You and OU will have recruiting classes that will never have to play an "away" tournament game for their entire careers.  For everyone else, it will be just the opposite. 

Boy, talk about taking out of context.  You only quoted my final statement.  You failed to include the part where I said I was against this, unless you switch it up every few years.

However, I now realize that Indy/Chicago were probably never considered due to the Big10 tournament being in Indy.  I know they are moving it around, but will probably also land back in Chicago.  Makes planning for the future more dependent on them.

Finally, I have said for years that when we lost Butler (10,000) and Loyola (4,400), and replaced them with Oakland (3,000), that LeCrone should be fired.  That was the time to bring in Murray State (8,800)/Belmont (5,000).  It's not that I hate Oakland,  it is just a numbers game. 

You either get busy living, or get busy dying. 

   

motowntitan

Quote from: oklahomamick on May 06, 2015, 09:08:09 PM
Quote from: motowntitan on May 06, 2015, 06:21:57 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 06, 2015, 06:08:12 PM
Quote from: Big D on May 06, 2015, 06:05:40 PMI know for a fact that Belmont did not like our previous format of giving the top seed a double bye and home court advantage in the HL tournament.
I thought Belmont would like it.  With their success they would have a good chance of hosting it every other year.
FYI, Belmont lost twice to a healthy Wright State this year.

But they did win the conference tournament over a ranked team in their hometown......

The same ranked team they lost to by 15 earlier in the season.  Maybe playing the tourney championship in their hometown helped? 

Belmont lost AT Murray State and only played them once in the regular season.  Maybe if the first game was at Belmont, the outcome would have been different?  But I see your point for Oakland, especially next year.  However, we have sent 4 teams to the NCAA in the past four years, with almost the same embarrassing results.  What experience is gained to better prepare you for the NCAA by playing on your home court?

   


sliman

Despite all our thoughts about where a neutral site tournament should be held, if I read the announcement correctly, it said RFPs were sent to many cities.  That would mean that the best of those who responded (few, apparently) was the proposal from Detroit.  I doubt that $20,000 income per school was a major motivating factor.  Also, if I understand a comment made on the board, if the tournament championship game is remaining on Tuesday night and will be televised on ESPN or ESPN2 at 6 pm, isn't that earlier than the game this year which was a "prime time" game.  As I recall, the Mid-Con/Summit level conferences usually get the early time slots. 

Pgmado

Quote from: sliman on May 09, 2015, 11:51:41 AM
Despite all our thoughts about where a neutral site tournament should be held, if I read the announcement correctly, it said RFPs were sent to many cities.  That would mean that the best of those who responded (few, apparently) was the proposal from Detroit.  I doubt that $20,000 income per school was a major motivating factor.  Also, if I understand a comment made on the board, if the tournament championship game is remaining on Tuesday night and will be televised on ESPN or ESPN2 at 6 pm, isn't that earlier than the game this year which was a "prime time" game.  As I recall, the Mid-Con/Summit level conferences usually get the early time slots. 

Horizon League sent out preliminary informal feelers over the last 18-24 months to various communities in the Midwest. Sounds like nothing worked out either due to lack of dates, lack of available facilities or lack of interest. Olympia Entertainment came calling right after the conference tournament this year and put together a proposal which "blew away" the Horizon League. LeCrone and his staff never got to the RFP phase with other cities after Detroit got in the mix.

okinawatyphoon

Apparently, Valpo and UIC were the only schools to vote against this proposal. Can anyone confirm?
Valpo '10, Valpo Admission Network
US Air Force, Sigma Phi Epsilon

HailVU2014

Okie dokie, Hello Everyone! I guess this is time for a short intro. I am a Valpo Grad from the Class of 2014. I was very involved in the Pep Band during my time and Valpo and managed to travel to many Valpo Basketball games as a band member and as a fan. Valpo Basketball has been one of my favorite things over my four years at Valpo. This year, as a recent alum, living and working in Cleveland, I had a blast following along and made my fair share of games when able (Home at GB, at IPFW, at Detroit, at CSU, and the NCAA tourney game in Columbus). I really enjoy following this forum and hope to contribute sporadically in the future! But I never have really felt like posting until today. :)

Anyway, I would like to share my thoughts on the conference tournament move as a recent student that I know several other recent "diehard" students agree with me on or at least acknowledge and understand. Apologies in advance that this is actually pretty long, but this post probably has been a while in the making!

First, as a Valpo fan and fanatic of the college basketball environment, this is a devastating blow. The Horizon League was one of the few conference tournaments that valued the regular season and offered the home court conference tournament and the double bye to the regular season champion. The semi-finals and finals offered an outstanding environment to the home team fans and showed a packed crowd on ESPN. Valpo benefited greatly from this as our cozy ARC and small community made the conference tournament fun. 2012, 2013, and 2015 were great years and I was happy to see at least two of them live.

However, the old Horizon League Conference Tournament was fatally flawed. The logistical aspects reared their ugly head as soon as Butler left the Horizon League. The *only* arena and team worth hosting the tournament- Butler at Hinkle Fieldhouse- was gone. Butler and Hinkle offered the success of Butler in basketball, the history and intrigue of Hinkle, and the central location of Indianapolis, which is also the home headquarters of the Horizon League. This absolutely gutted the financial gain from the conference tournaments, as the Horizon League tournament had quite the run in Indy. With Butler gone, the Horizon League tournament brand faded. Valpo and Oakland could sell out with their smaller arenas, Green Bay and Wright State did not sellout (albeit they were close) when they hosted in 2014, UWM didn't sell out the semi-finals but that final v. Butler was packed in 2011, Cleveland State couldn't fill half the arena when they had a chance to clinch the Horizon League Regular Season in late February, and the remaining HL teams (Detroit, UIC, YSU, and even the new NKU) wouldn't ever have the fan base to host a sellout, not a chance. Thus, you had very little chance to make money on the actual venue. The posts on the UWM page are exciting with full arenas, but how many of those include a Butler matchup?? Or UWM during the Bruce Pearl Sweet Sixteen era??? And you have 3 games in the small ARC that still had some gaps in the corners, so that accounts for how many seasons?? But how do you make money on the conference tournaments? Easy, the venue, the city, and the ESPN/TV contract, which all meant the location change.

Before I dig in further about Joe Louis and Detroit, let me go over some recent HL tourney history that likely got this conversation started. The year was 2014. The University of Wisconsin- Green Bay won its first Horizon League regular season championship since 1996. Their anxious fan base awaited the HL tournament appearance at the Resch Center. The quarterfinals occurred on Friday, March 7 and featured Wright State v. Oakland and UWM vs. Valpo. What was the fan experience like at those games? Awful. (I was there.) The combined attendance for the quarterfinals was 1,770 and I would say that half were UWGB fans that were scoping the competition and were supporting their athletic departments. Valpo brought the band and the student section was three students including myself. I know that some other students were there, but not in the designated section. Wright State just had the band. Oakland and Milwaukee had their bands and it also looked like they brought a bus of students as well. However, Green Bay had the largest mass of fans for all Horizon League schools except Milwaukee. It was a terrible atmosphere. (And if you don't win the regular season, who really wants to make the long trip to Green Bay??? I know of several older alumni, including the late "V-Man" who actually said that they were not going to go, although they would travel to Milwaukee or UIC.)

So the semifinals occur and there is a large capacity crowd of 7,100+ out of an almost 10k capacity arena, so 70% full with 6,000 or more UWGB fans. And the Phoenix lose. So now there is a problem. The Horizon League and ESPN have 2.5 days to pack the banners, cameras, staff, etc. to get to... where? O yeah, the Nutter Center at Wright State. That is an 8 hour drive from Green Bay or a very expensive flight from Green Bay to either Columbus, Cincy, or Dayton itself. Not to mention that there has to be marketing for the tickets and all of the new logistics in Dayton. I am 10000% positive that Green Bay losing was a catastrophic nightmare for the Horizon League Staff and ESPN. Also, this was the first time that the semifinals and finals were not at the same site since 2004 and the location difference couldn't get much farther. The Nutter Center hosted 7500 people for that final, which is about 75% capacity so not bad, but lots of money was lost with the logistics change, I'm sure, and thus, stability was needed for the conference tournament with a permanent site.

So why Joe Louis Arena and Detroit over Indianapolis or another city? Well, the Horizon League has truly lost its Indiana roots. Although we Valpo fans call Indiana home, we are far from Indy and we are in the shadow of other teams in the state, and we have issues even filling our ARC. We probably would be more inclined to go to Chicago over Indy for things, although Indy wouldn't be terrible. However, there is no school within two hours of Indy and beyond that Valpo or Wright State would be the closest. So why not Chicago? The easiest thing would be one of the non-United Center venues. There is no way the United Center would be remotely interested in the Horizon League tourney with the Bulls, Hawks, Concerts, and the occasional B1G Tourney. So what other venues are there? Allstate Arena isn't a bad option but with DePaul vacating the arena soon would how much longer is this place going to be used for anything significant other than concerts? There is no appeal. The Sears Centre in Hoffman Estates offers a very nice facility but the Big Ten Women's Basketball Tournament is contracted there for a while, during the Horizon League Tournament dates... o well. For Milwaukee, is the Bradley Center appealing for outsiders? And would any school east of Valpo attend? Seems like a similar problem to Green Bay in 2014 and if we think Detroit is a home site for UDM and OU, wouldn't the Bradley Center be the home site for UWM? For Cleveland, Quicken Loans Arena is booked for the Cavs, Lake Erie Monsters Hockey, and they host the MAC tournament. Not a chance. So that leaves us with Detroit, specifically at Joe Louis Arena.

The deal with Detroit makes sense. Joe Louis Arena is not used for much other than hockey, or at least nothing money breaking. Detroit is about the best you will get for a central location that could actually bring in a more diverse group of fans. Plus, we get to be likely the first college basketball users of the new Detroit arena and we can lay claim to it as ours. A neutral court gives the Horizon League Tournament that March-feel and offers more than just an autobid. We can prepare for the tournament on a site where a win can mean something. We can get use to those large arenas that March Madness takes over. (Although Hoosiers makes it seem simple with the hoop measurement exercise, I am sure that it is a huge difference as a player.) The Horizon League can finally gain some reputation back with this new contract. Think of the ESPN headlines: "Horizon League Rivals Oakland and Valparaiso play for the Horizon League Crown in likely the final basketball game at Joe Louis Arena." It actually sounds appealing compared to our homey HL arenas. Finally, how about the $$$??? This is all a business move and we hate it for it, but the permanent neutral site will save on the moving expenses and the ESPN contract will probably return to the Butler days where the semifinals are on ESPN2 not ESPNU and the quarterfinals may even make it to ESPNU? Valpo can benefit great from this!

So now... what do I think? My knee jerk reaction was: "ARE YOU F---ING kidding me?!?!?!?!?" But after really writing this out, I actually kinda like it. Does it give Oakland and Detroit an advantage? Maybe. I agree with Oren's article when he says: "Well, that works very nicely for two of the schools in the Horizon League. Detroit's campus is just 9.5 miles from Joe Louis Arena while Oakland's campus is 28.5 miles. Not so neutral for those two programs. Then again, I went to a Detroit basketball game at Calihan Hall this year and there were very few people in the stands and this was on Senior Night no less. Section 313 (the student section known for their artistic talents) was empty. Oakland typically has a good fan base, but the O'Rena is so small that it's hard to gauge just how many people get fired up over Golden Grizz hoops." In my opinion, I do think that Oakland may very well take advantage of the closer HL tourney court. But think of it like this, would you rather go to Joe Louis or UDM/Oakland. Joe Louis is a neutral site and you would be comfortably around Valpo fans and you would only have minor heckling from opposing fans. If you went to Calihan, you actually could be shot with the neighborhood it's in. If you were at the O'rena, you would be one of probably 100 Valpo fans surrounded by a packed arena of menacing Golden Grizzlies fans, that would be fun during the regular season, but during the HL tourney, I do not want to face that. As Valpo fans, we would miss hosting the HL tournament when we win the regular season, but the benefits that a neutral court brings if we lose the 1st place tiebreak and end up 2nd, 3rd, or 4th make the tournament less difficult. (Just think, if we lost to CSU and Oakland beat GB, we could have had to play Detroit and CSU at Wolstein Center and then either at GB or Oakland, yikes!)

There are a lot of benefits, but still with the drawback of fan environment and attendance. The fact is that the regular season is still important, the environment at those games now have more pressure to be great because there is no "maybe one more game at home" after senior day. We have been spoiled as Valpo fans with hosting the tourney three times recently, but now it is about regaining the prestige of the Horizon League before it becomes the Mid-Con all over again. A neutral site tourney in a "desirable" location does that. The recruiting advantage with the packed home tourney games is gone but let's send an army of 2000-5000 Valpo fans to Detroit and show that we support our team in Valpo, in Detroit, and in the NCAA tournament. I've seen talk on this forum that we should look to become the next Wichita State or Gonzaga or Butler. Then, let's show it! Let's not whine about the loss of our cozy Horizon League tournament and become that fan base that make recruits want to come to Valpo. I know that I am dreaming here. However, we talk about being elite and wanting to move to the MVC, but we cannot fill our ARC 80% of the time!!

My concern with this Detroit deal is that I would prefer to rotate the location of the tournament in the future, and the HL has several options that could appeal in their region of interest:

Detroit- Joe Louis Arena/New Detroit Events Center
Indianapolis- Indiana Farmers Coliseum/Bankers Life Fieldhouse
Chicagoland- Allstate Arena/New DePaul Venue/Sears Center
Milwaukee- BMO Bradley Center
Columbus- Nationwide Arena
Cincinnati- Fifth-Third Arena
Cleveland- Quicken Loans Arena
And two just for fun:
Louisville- KFC Yum! Center
Pittsburgh- Consol Energy Center

Note: If it does stay in Detroit for a long time, they better trademark "Motor City Madness" and make that the Horizon League Tournament official nickname. That could compete with "Arch Madness." Also, I agree with other thoughts to make it a Thursday-Sunday tournament that keeps the double bye.

Final note: This move is to regain the prestige of the Horizon League not to attract new members. Since Butler's departure, the league's seeds in the NCAA tournament have declined and we need something that can spark talent and interest in the league. This does that somewhat. Remember the "Last Basketball Game at Joe Louis Arena" line from before. For those that believe that this could attract new members let me say this. The Horizon League was and is never going to get Murray State. Period. Murray State is tied to the Ohio Valley Conference due to football obligations. If Murray State leaves the OVC, they suddenly have no place for their football team. Pioneer League? Hahahahaha. But seriously. Their next move is the Missouri Valley (who has football) when/if they expand to 12 teams and that may be our chance to jump this "sinking Horizon League ship" for those that call it that. (But NDSU and SDSU have the MVC football ties already, so the HL may very well be our permanent home for a long, long time.) The Horizon League probably will consider IUPUI and IPFW one day in the future, but not now for sure. Robert Morris is not joining the Horizon League also due to football in the Northeast Conference. It will be difficult to get Belmont into the Horizon League. They are a great school but you now need a travel buddy and that only option would then be Lipscomb and suddenly the Horizon League stretches north-south from Green Bay to Nashville... yikes. That is a tough sell.

Anyway, thanks for reading! Sorry that it was a little long, but I think that it's a good argument. I'd love to hear what all of you think about this! Go Valpo! And I will see you all in Detroit in 2016! :)

VULB#62

Yes, Long but well articulated. It is what it is and we, despite our complaining, can't change it.  Your analysis is very good and touches on some thoughts that haven't been expressed yet.  Thanks.

Oh, and welcome to the board!   :dance:


valpopal

#94
It has been a few days since the press release now, and other than the exact same generic announcement required by the Horizon League to be copied on each member's web site, there has been little public support expressed by conference schools, even those who voted in favor of the proposal. Of course, Kampe and McCallum have voiced approval of the tournament being held in their home town, but I have seen no comments by other coaches throughout the league. In addition, there has been an absence of enthusiastic support openly expressed by athletic directors or university presidents.


Does anybody doubt that if this plan were viewed positively and as a popular one, all the administrators at the conference schools would be rushing to the media to embrace the idea and share the credit? Instead, the sound of silence from those universities (as well as the admirable and not so subtle tone of dismay by Mark LaBarbera in his public comment) perhaps reveals how unpopular this decision stands, even among schools who voted for it and now must deal with unhappy players, coaches, students, fans, alumni, and financial supporters. Indeed, the overwhelming negative backlash from most Horizon League fans, as well as the apparently poor planning of the rollout by LeCrone and the Horizon League—whose silence in response to the tidal wave of negativity on conference discussion boards has been deafening—does not inspire confidence moving forward. 

VULB#62

Pal,  you've touched on the thing that bothers me the most:  The lack of sound planning and consensus building BEFORE the move was made. Same with the NKU situation. At least when the MVC came to visit potential new members, it was done in a well-planned, series of steps that were pretty public.  None of the HL steps appear to pass this little sniff test.

vu72

Well written post by HailVU2014.  I don't disagree with anything he/she wrote, except the part about Murray State not being interested in the Horizon because of football. The OVC has non-football teams in it--Belmont and of course the Pioneer's Morehead State.  YSU plays football in the Missouri Valley version of football, as do members of the Summit. In fact, five of ten football members are not part of the other Valley organization. Murray could play football in the Valley and everything else in the Horizon.  The football and version and everything else versions of the Valley are on different wave lengths so the logic that if Murray was playing football there does not mean the basketball version would welcome them.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

valpotx

Also, NDSU and SDSU won't be invited to be all-sports schools in the MVC.  While the travel is fine for football, the MVC schools would have no desire to trek each of their sports teams to those states every season.
"Don't mess with Texas"

StlVUFan

Quote from: FWalum on May 09, 2015, 12:41:47 AM
What the heck is this Detroit News writer talking about....??? Moving Horizon League Tourney
QuoteThe Detroit plan puts the whole tournament, including opening-round games, in the city, a single site, regardless if Oakland or Detroit happen to be eliminated before the championship game.

Therefore, this could give the tournament a bigger spotlight, in a bigger media market than, say, Valparaiso. That's welcomed news for ESPN, which retains the rights to broadcast the championship game — and figures to be much more likely to put the final on ESPN rather than ESPN2 if there's not a bunch of empty seats, like there often is when the game is held at a campus site.
Obviously didn't attend many Horizon League Championship games.
On this point, I'm with you.  But then if I know my Detroit media, Tony Paul is generally considered to be an idiot.

And this paragraph was obviously written by an idiot.

StlVUFan

Quote from: motowntitan on May 09, 2015, 10:00:26 AMHowever, we have sent 4 teams to the NCAA in the past four years, with almost the same embarrassing results.  What experience is gained to better prepare you for the NCAA by playing on your home court?
Very good point. :thumbsup: