The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

Valpo Sports => Valpo Basketball => Topic started by: talksalot on November 17, 2016, 10:55:40 PM

Title: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: talksalot on November 17, 2016, 10:55:40 PM
I wanted to get this up right away after I washed my hands following Duck Soup.  Time for a Day at the Races in Vegas.

Tide rolls in 1-1, beating Coastal Carolina and Losing to Dayton (at home).  Friday night at home against Ball State

Here's the Bama stat sheet:

http://www.rolltide.com/cumestats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2016

4 guys averaging double figures. 67% free throws, got out-rebounded by Coastal Carolina. 

Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: atkins on November 18, 2016, 09:03:04 AM
A game we should, on paper, win.  But we are playing such flawed basketball right now.  We seem lost like a deer in the headlights more often than we should.  I predict Valpo loses by 7 after playing a close game.  Hope I am totally wrong. 

Alec should not have to carry the team on his shoulders inside and outside, and that's what he's having to try to do.  Obviously, there is far too much inconsistency elsewhere.  We are now 4 games in, and the pattern is not positive.  Hopefully we can go on a streak in a positive direction. 
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: covufan on November 18, 2016, 09:44:37 AM
How this team bounces back from the Oregon game could give us a preview of the rest of the season.  If we are anywhere near previous years 3-pt shooting percentage, we have a chance.  If we continue our shooting woes, we'll lose.  We can't be out rebounded again, especially on their end of the court. 

Our FT shooting would indicate that as a team we have the ability to improve our 3-pt shooting.

Valpo  71
'Bama 67
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: justducky on November 18, 2016, 10:03:08 AM
Quote from: talksalot on November 17, 2016, 10:55:40 PMI wanted to get this up right away after I washed my hands following Duck Soup.  Time for a Day at the Races in Vegas.
Horse Feathers! This comparison is unfair even if the Oregon second half looked exactly like a Marx brothers skit. Wait!!  Send Chef down to the novelty shop to get the whole team Groucho getups. Maybe with the big noses, eyebrows and cigars we will be better equipped to focus on the game. Either way Alabama will be difficult so we will need to avoid any Monkey Business.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: Kyle321n on November 18, 2016, 10:14:43 AM
One thing is for sure in this game. Alabama will be well coached with Avery Johnson at the helm.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpotx on November 18, 2016, 10:45:05 AM
Unfortunately, we need some more time to work out our shooting woes.

Alabama 74
Valpo 67
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpo64 on November 18, 2016, 12:49:52 PM
Inconsistent shooting?  It's not only the "other" guys, AP has been in the same funk.  It is bound to turn around, but the question is when.  Let's hope the free throw shooting holds up.  It has been a long time since we have been this good in our free throw shooting.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpo04 on November 18, 2016, 01:11:44 PM
From a writer from bamahoops.com (http://www.bamahoops.com/):

QuoteHi, I am one of the writers for an Alabama basketball blog, bamahoops.com (I'm "DJC" there).  We do a feature where we invite writers from upcoming opponent's blogs to give us a bit of perspective from the other side.  If you are interested, please respond and tell me a bit about the Valpo team and your thoughts on the matchup, and I will post it to our blog and of course give you credit along with a link back to your site.  I hope to hear back from you.  Thanks, and good luck!

If anyone is interested, you can send me a PM with your write up and I will email it to him or you can email him directly: jcarruth@bham.rr.com

Thanks!
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: M on November 18, 2016, 02:22:52 PM
Valpo 75-71 winners.  Our big guys need to get better, fast!
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: vu84v2 on November 18, 2016, 04:02:05 PM
This is a really telling game of what may happen during the season. Unlike the Oregon game, I am somewhat optimistic. Offense will run well and the team will hit more of their open shots. Assuming the inside game will be serviceable and that Valpo may benefit from some neutral refs.

Valpo 72
Alabama 70
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpo64 on November 19, 2016, 10:02:23 AM
Alabama beat Ball State by 18 last night.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: agibson on November 19, 2016, 11:39:40 AM
The Athletics page will fill us in sooner or later. But, anyone have ideas about TV or video coverage?
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: EddieCabot on November 19, 2016, 03:49:36 PM
Quote from: agibson on November 19, 2016, 11:39:40 AM
The Athletics page will fill us in sooner or later. But, anyone have ideas about TV or video coverage?

Championship game on ESPN2.  Other three games live streaming on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdfNhq-imTE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdfNhq-imTE)
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: bbtds on November 20, 2016, 09:04:11 AM
Quote from: justducky on November 18, 2016, 10:03:08 AM
Quote from: talksalot on November 17, 2016, 10:55:40 PMI wanted to get this up right away after I washed my hands following Duck Soup.  Time for a Day at the Races in Vegas.
Horse Feathers! This comparison is unfair even if the Oregon second half looked exactly like a Marx brothers skit. Wait!!  Send Chef down to the novelty shop to get the whole team Groucho getups. Maybe with the big noses, eyebrows and cigars we will be better equipped to focus on the game. Either way Alabama will be difficult so we will need to avoid any Monkey Business.

I think a lot of you are taking one big Humor Risk when talking about the Oregon and Alabama games. (Look it up, 1921)

Maybe it's time for the team to change up their pre-game diets and throw some Animal Crackers in the mix.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: agibson on November 20, 2016, 01:34:40 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 19, 2016, 03:49:36 PM
Quote from: agibson on November 19, 2016, 11:39:40 AM
The Athletics page will fill us in sooner or later. But, anyone have ideas about TV or video coverage?

Championship game on ESPN2.  Other three games live streaming on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdfNhq-imTE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdfNhq-imTE)

Looks like it's free, I guess. Archives of past games are, at least.

It's the first I remember Valpo on YouTube. It's worked well in the past for me, for USL Soccer games.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: VUSWIM08-12 on November 20, 2016, 10:55:57 PM
Vegas giving Valpo 2 points...thought it might be a 5 or 6. Looking forward to watching this one!

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-basketball/odds/las-vegas/
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: talksalot on November 21, 2016, 09:54:14 AM
Sagarin's "New Feature"

FAVORITE        Rating Points Gold Recent  UNDERDOG        FAVORITE         WINNER    LOSER SPREAD  TOTAL   UNDERDOG        APPROX
=================================================================================
alabama           6.62    7.94    4.36  4.26    valparaiso          alabama           67.73     -  65.27   2.46       133.00   valparaiso       ~  2.58

Ya know what?   Harken back to the days when Valpo would have been a prohibitive underdog to any power5 team.  Let's do something special.... again.


PS.  feel free to grab any of these others... This game could be "Yours for the Asking"... ... Groucho was a "sun bathing extra"...

Marx Brothers Movies

Humor Risk      (1921)
The Cocoanuts      (1929)
Animal Crackers      (1930)
Monkey Business      (1931)
Horse Feathers      (1932)
Duck Soup      (1933)
A Night at the Opera      (1935)
A Day at the Races      (1937)
Room Service      (1938)
At the Circus      (1939)
Go West      (1940)
The Big Store      (1941)
A Night in Casablanca      (1946)
Love Happy      (1949)


Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: talksalot on November 21, 2016, 04:10:55 PM
The Valpo-Bama game is #4 on the docket for the MGM arena today...

Ball State - Coppin on right now, with the Cardinals up 57-52 with 7:20 to play, Cardinals are in foul trouble!
Coastal Carolina - Southern Utah coming up at 5pm Central
BYU - St Louis at 8:30pm
Valpo-Bama scheduled for 11:00pm (actally 10:59PM to get in on the "Tuesday Schedule" on the east coast)
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: talksalot on November 21, 2016, 04:33:21 PM
Coppin State missed a bunny layup at the buzzer to tie... Ball State takes it 79-77.  (Coppin State erased an 11-point lead in the last 2 minutes)...

the crowd in that arena was ... just a minute, let me count them from the freeze-frame picture... yup. 26 people in the arena behind the team benches.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: a3uge on November 21, 2016, 10:23:32 PM
This midnight start time is insane. I'm already falling asleep.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: talksalot on November 21, 2016, 10:31:33 PM
Just watched the BYU demolition of SLU... 30 point game as SLU mailed in the last 10 minutes.  Cougars will be a tough out tomorrow night for the Crusaders.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valporun on November 21, 2016, 10:53:54 PM
I look forward to watching a good game from Valpo, and want Valpo to beat Alabama. It would be a good win for Valpo and the HL against an SEC school, and another good moment to make my birthday enjoyable.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valporun on November 21, 2016, 11:21:23 PM
Neither team is playing a smooth game, and Smits is looking like a fish out of water. He's going to need to be focused on a lot in practice, otherwise he'll be a severe Achilles heel. (I guess start praying that he develops into a Vashil-like 7 footer in junior year.) The rest of the team is looking rough, but we're getting some good shots to fall here.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valporun on November 21, 2016, 11:55:43 PM
Valpo takes a 34-31 lead into the break. A lot of turnovers, 10 for Bama, and we got 20 points off of those turnovers, and we couldn't keep the paint closed. Bama got a lot of their points in the paint, instead of extended or from the perimeter. Have a lot of work ahead of us in the second half, if we're going to keep the Tide down.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: a3uge on November 21, 2016, 11:58:15 PM
Awful sequence to end the half, but terrible call. Should be up 7.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: hailcrusaders on November 22, 2016, 12:22:34 AM
Quote from: valporun on November 21, 2016, 11:55:43 PMValpo takes a 34-31 lead into the break. A lot of turnovers, 10 for Bama, and we got 20 points off of those turnovers, and we couldn't keep the paint closed. Bama got a lot of their points in the paint, instead of extended or from the perimeter. Have a lot of work ahead of us in the second half, if we're going to keep the Tide down stem the Tide.

Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: a3uge on November 22, 2016, 12:28:24 AM
The hack on the alley oop isn't called, but they get Peters twice in a row when the guy lowers his shoulder. Some brutal officiating going on.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: VUOR63 on November 22, 2016, 01:08:22 AM
A win is a win.  I'll take it.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: jloose128 on November 22, 2016, 01:08:41 AM
Nice game. Never really got behind, great games by Alec and Jubril. That's a Power 5 victory!
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: VU2014 on November 22, 2016, 01:08:57 AM
Good team win! Not perfect but a much better game. Shot the ball better. The Zone Defense was good tonight. Great game from AP, Jubril and all the guys. Great positive step forward in the maturation of this team.

Seems like we have a 7-8 man rotation in the early going. Coach Lottich seems to trust Sorolla for about 15-20min.

Here comes the BYU rematch!
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: FieldGoodie05 on November 22, 2016, 01:17:45 AM
Solid solid win.  Funny to see the "Vashil effect" from the other side.  We couldn't slash with bama's big man camping.  Last week our shooting % combined with no cutting ability would have sunk us.  Good progression.

Good defensive effort for VU.  Hope our guard play improves against BYU which should have better guard play than tonight.

P.S.  Looking forward to HL play where we might be able to get Derrick some good playing time for his development.  We need him...
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: a3uge on November 22, 2016, 01:19:09 AM
Alec Peters was cold blooded. Guy just ices games.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valporun on November 22, 2016, 01:22:25 AM
It was definitely a nice win. We put in the effort, and had good energy. The biggest thing I wish we could have had was 3-6 of the missed threes have a little more behind them to go in the net, rather than clank off the front of the rim, but it seems like our threes that miss on the short end just never have a chance to bounce off the rim and spin towards the net or the backboard to get in the net. We seem to clank them off the front end of the rim, and they deaden before being rebounded by the opponent. Otherwise, good win, just need to get shots really falling against a very physical BYU squad. We'll need Jubril to control his foul situations, and have Sorolla play big. I'd love to Smits breakout in a big way on Wednesday, but it has to be in his mindset to do it. It won't just happen to happen, but he has to set himself in a way to make it happen. Going to be a tough game, and Luke was saying it will be a tough game because of the older, veteran club that BYU has with a couple guys back after Mormon mission service. Good luck to our guys, and get some rest and good film and book study in on this year's BYU squad, between what we remember from MSG to what the Cougars showed against Saint Louis tonight.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: hailcrusaders on November 22, 2016, 01:29:00 AM
Can't complain too much about a win over a Power 5 team, but I'll try:

I know they had the size advantage on us, but it sure seemed to me like we gave them a TON of second looks.

Alabama had a few possessions where they snuck one of their big guys down to the baseline behind our 2-3 zone and fed him for an easy bucket. If it happens once I get it, but they had three or four baskets that way.

Almost looked like we tried taking the air out of the ball too early and it nearly cost us.

I shudder to think what would happen if we played them in football.

Otherwise, great to see us grind out a close one. I don't see this team blowing out as many opponents as last year, so we'll need to win games like these for a successful season.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: bbtds on November 22, 2016, 01:30:58 AM
I'd say that the best Marx Brothers' movie that tells the tale of this game was At the Circus because you really didn't know which act coming out was going to fail or succeed. I'm not sure which team was shooting poorer from beyond the arc but both were pretty brutal. I'm glad it was this three ring act from Alabama that the Crusaders were playing tonight/this morning because I don't know of many SEC teams that could have been worse. I'd really have to say our shooting percentage numbers aren't much better since the beginning of the year against Hillsdale and in general are pretty poor. Our game will have to really improve greatly Wednesday night or we will get totally embarrassed by a BYU team looking for revenge from their NIT loss last season in Madison Square Garden. That was a sweet victory in Manhattan last March but we are no where near the team that we were during March Madness even in the crucial free throw last few minutes section of the game.

I think we can go away with a thought of Love Happy but it may truly be a case of A Night at the Opera where the fat lady sings on Valpo against revenge of the Cougars. Where Valpo wished they had mormon who could shoot better. 
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: FieldGoodie05 on November 22, 2016, 01:37:24 AM
Must have missed it....why'd Bradford get such limited minutes?  Hurt?
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpotx on November 22, 2016, 04:20:54 AM
Lexus and Max are playing better, so they are getting the PG minutes.  With Tevonn back and other options at SG, Micah is going to have to do something special in limited minutes in order to get more time, or Lexus/Max are going to have to play worse.

I enjoyed this victory not only because it is a Valpo win over a Power 5 team, who was also in the NIT last year, but because there is some d-bag at my son's daycare that always says 'Roll Tide' when he picks up his kid.  It has every kid in that room saying the same stupid thing, including my own on occasion.  I hate Alabama soooooo much :).
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: 78crusader on November 22, 2016, 07:42:30 AM
After 5 games it is clear that Smits is not ready to play at this level.

Paul
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: wh on November 22, 2016, 07:56:49 AM
Quote from: valpotx on November 22, 2016, 04:20:54 AM
I enjoyed this victory not only because it is a Valpo win over a Power 5 team, who was also in the NIT last year, but because there is some d-bag at my son's daycare that always says 'Roll Tide' when he picks up his kid.  It has every kid in that room saying the same stupid thing, including my own on occasion.  I hate Alabama soooooo much :).

LOL
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: oklahomamick on November 22, 2016, 08:03:05 AM
Lack of post play and bench production is a huge drag on this team.  Needs to improve before conference play.....

This team is no where near last years team.  Makes me appreciate even more how special they were.  However, this group got a win against a P5 team.  I remember a good Rowdy team couldn't beat a very poor P5 Nebraska team years ago.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpo4life on November 22, 2016, 08:06:40 AM
Quote from: hailcrusaders on November 22, 2016, 01:29:00 AM
Can't complain too much about a win over a Power 5 team, but I'll try:

I know they had the size advantage on us, but it sure seemed to me like we gave them a TON of second looks.

Alabama had a few possessions where they snuck one of their big guys down to the baseline behind our 2-3 zone and fed him for an easy bucket. If it happens once I get it, but they had three or four baskets that way.

They had 13 offensive rebounds, which is a lot, but we had 8 of our own. So we didn't get burned as bad as it seemed in that department with second chance points being a 7-7 tie.

As far as the easy buckets, gotta expect a couple of those to happen each game when playing zone. Especially with how active how wings are. You don't want that to happen, but I will accept it for the overall defense we played. Also on this topic, I kept wondering how long Alabama was going to keep trying to ball screen their way through the zone before they figured out it wasn't going to work but they just continued to do it over and over. It's useless at the top of the key where the guards can just pass the dribbler off to one another. Whatever, I'm glad we made them stagnant and our first win that feels like it's worth something of the season. On to BYU.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: vu72 on November 22, 2016, 08:45:06 AM
Nice win!  Definition of a tough night: 3 turnovers, 2 fouls, in 2 minutes of play.   :o
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpo84 on November 22, 2016, 10:17:18 AM
I think we all need to relax and understand this is not a schedule for developing young players.  This is a schedule to help showcase AP and to build a resume for post-season.  We are trying to maximize the veterans on this team.  Our early season games are designed to try to win games against mid-100 type opponents before conference season destroys our RPI.  There will be some games in December to help develop Micah and Derrick but the goal is to win 2 out 3 of these west coast games.  Oregon we played for about 30 minutes but we have been exposed as not a good 3-point shooting team and we have some weakness on the interior. Vashil is not back there to clean up messes.  Sorolla has shown some signs and Derrick is more rusty than expected at this stage.  Max has been greatly improved and Lexus is playing very good D, just needs to stay out of foul trouble.  But we miss a true 3-pt shooter other than AP.  BYU will be a good test game.  We need some confident 3 shooting and really need Tevon to be a dependable 3d option.  Plus, Shane needs to be aggressive against bigger programs when going to the hoop.  Seems to shy away from the contact instead of generating the contact when playing the Bamas  and Oregons of the world, but dominating against Thunderbirds and lesser birds of prey.  We need him to have 16-18 tonight/tomorrow here in the ET.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: a3uge on November 22, 2016, 10:25:54 AM
The first step to ending the stigma against mid majors is for fans of mid majors themselves to stop pretending that beating power conference teams (while favored, and covering spread) is somehow more meaningful than beating other better callibar mid major teams.

Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: bbtds on November 22, 2016, 10:39:51 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 22, 2016, 08:03:05 AM
Lack of post play and bench production is a huge drag on this team.  Needs to improve before conference play.....

This team is no where near last years team.  Makes me appreciate even more how special they were.  However, this group got a win against a P5 team.  I remember a good Rowdy team couldn't beat a very poor P5 Nebraska team years ago.

As you will remember there is a huge difference playing at the P5's place in Lincoln or playing at a neutral court in Las Vegas.

I do not think we win this morning's game in Tuscaloooooosa.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: oklahomamick on November 22, 2016, 10:52:12 AM
Both on the road.....There were about the same amount of fans in the stands.  Probably more distractions in Vegas when compared to Lincoln. 
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: talksalot on November 22, 2016, 11:10:14 AM
If you want to watch the replay ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdfNhq-imTE

Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: vu84v2 on November 22, 2016, 11:31:26 AM
Quote from: a3uge on November 22, 2016, 10:25:54 AM
The first step to ending the stigma against mid majors is for fans of mid majors themselves to stop pretending that beating power conference teams (while favored, and covering spread) is somehow more meaningful than beating other better callibar mid major teams.



Beating BYU would be a much more meaningful win than beating Alabama, since BYU is a much better team.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: agibson on November 22, 2016, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: a3uge on November 22, 2016, 10:25:54 AM
The first step to ending the stigma against mid majors is for fans of mid majors themselves to stop pretending that beating power conference teams (while favored, and covering spread) is somehow more meaningful than beating other better callibar mid major teams.

Seemed to me that Alabama, even as a middling SEC team, was playing with a different caliber of athlete than you normally see on mid-major teams. Watching their big guys show off their athleticism in the first half did make it seem special when our zone stymied them in the second half.

It'll be even better to beat a ranked team someday, mid-major or not. But, I'll still celebrate a win against a top-100 team. With a little special zest if they're from a "big" conference.

Gives you some confidence that we can play in a post-season setting, even if we're of course not looking to find the likes of Alabama. Maybe some kind of freak second or third round NCAA game?

But, gives me some hope that size and athleticism alone aren't going to intimidate us.

BYU will be very interesting - looks like a really tough test.

Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: oklahomamick on November 22, 2016, 12:15:32 PM
I think we would all agree that beating Rhode Island would be better than beating Alabama or BYU
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: FieldGoodie05 on November 22, 2016, 12:25:17 PM
Beating our next opponent is all that matters.  Both BYU and URI are likely further along than we are this season.  So I'd take a good performance against BYU first.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: bbtds on November 22, 2016, 02:12:41 PM
Did the announcer really complain about the weather being in the 60's and 70's and being "cold?"

I thought I had misheard him but I was rewatching the game and yes he did complain about the weather being "cold" in the 60's and 70's.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: atkins on November 22, 2016, 02:21:13 PM
Many good points by all posters.  I never thought we would miss Vashil this much.  Jubril and Alec are all we have inside, at least until Sorolla gains strength and smoothness.  I hope Derek can develop into a starter by his senior year.  He is obviously not ready yet, and Sorolla is way ahead of him.

We do not match up very well against BYU or URI, but we can try to keep it close.  Maybe we will shoot the lights out.

I shudder to think about how badly we will be beaten by UK.  Every starter on their team is better than Alabama's top guy, and that says a lot.  I am sure UK could care less about us at this point, but their game plan should consist of pounding the ball inside constantly and getting easy dunks.  I will be impressed if we can keep the final score within 25. 

Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: VUOR63 on November 22, 2016, 02:43:25 PM
Best thing about beating Alabama?  A game on ESPN2 that I don't have to watch on my phone/computer and listen to an inexperienced commentator. 
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: M on November 22, 2016, 02:46:58 PM
Besides the weather comment he said our jerseys are neon yellow and Max Joseph was a top 20 player in Illinois at one point.  Now I am sick and watched the replay at 3:30 this morning after throwing up so I very could've heard him wrong.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: a3uge on November 22, 2016, 02:50:59 PM
So let's just judge our wins and losses on the actual quality of the opponent we beat. Sure Alabama has size, but they aren't good at shooting and they don't move the ball well. This is why we were favored and why we won by 8. Lottich did a good job with the lineups (other than the Smits thing) and Valpo was able to switch Peters to their big guy and have him go to town at the top of the perimeter.

It shouldn't matter if they play in the SEC, MEAC, or Horizon. Beating an average team is beating an average team. Beating a good team is beating a good team.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: vusupporter on November 22, 2016, 03:14:36 PM
We weren't favored, Alabama was favored. Alabama is a top-75 team in the Sagarin and the KenPom ratings, and was picked to finish in the top half of the SEC. It's not like beating a top-10 team, but they're far from average.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: vu72 on November 22, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
Quote from: VUOR63 on November 22, 2016, 02:43:25 PM
Best thing about beating Alabama?  A game on ESPN2 that I don't have to watch on my phone/computer and listen to an inexperienced commentator. 

I was hooking up my computer to my tv via a hdmi cable but found a better answer with something called Chromecast.  It is a device about the size of a siver dollar that plugs into your tv's hdmi port and cost $35 one time purchase price.  Then, whatever you can get on your phone is "cast" to the tv by pushing a button.  Bam!  HD picture with full screen.  Can't help you with the commentators!
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: agibson on November 22, 2016, 03:45:26 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 22, 2016, 12:15:32 PM
I think we would all agree that beating Rhode Island would be better than beating Alabama or BYU

It's really a remarkable schedule they put together this year. Only a few RPI drains in the non-conference (some complained about the Trolls; but at least they don't hurt the RPI!). And some remarkable games, home, neutral, and away. Maybe you'd have asked for something a notch better than Missouri State for a true away test, while still being winnable, but that's really splitting hairs. Really terrific (dose of luck?) scheduling.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: agibson on November 22, 2016, 03:49:03 PM
Quote from: M on November 22, 2016, 02:46:58 PMBesides the weather comment he said our jerseys are neon yellow and Max Joseph was a top 20 player in Illinois at one point.  Now I am sick and watched the replay at 3:30 this morning after throwing up so I very could've heard him wrong.

The Joseph comment was there, for sure. He immediately followed it by correctly saying that he and Tevonn had played prep together. Very odd.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: mgovalpo on November 22, 2016, 04:01:12 PM
Quote from: a3uge on November 22, 2016, 02:50:59 PM
So let's just judge our wins and losses on the actual quality of the opponent we beat. Sure Alabama has size, but they aren't good at shooting and they don't move the ball well. This is why we were favored and why we won by 8. Lottich did a good job with the lineups (other than the Smits thing) and Valpo was able to switch Peters to their big guy and have him go to town at the top of the perimeter.

It shouldn't matter if they play in the SEC, MEAC, or Horizon. Beating an average team is beating an average team. Beating a good team is beating a good team.

Where did you see we were favored? Every line I saw had Alabama as a 2-3 point favorite. Not saying you're wrong, just wondering where this line was. Even KenPom had Valpo as a 2-point underdog.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: agibson on November 22, 2016, 04:17:23 PM
Quote from: mgovalpo on November 22, 2016, 04:01:12 PMWhere did you see we were favored? Every line I saw had Alabama as a 2-3 point favorite. Not saying you're wrong, just wondering where this line was. Even KenPom had Valpo as a 2-point underdog.

I know that I was confused by VUSWIM's comments in this thread - maybe I'm just not down with the gambling jive. I didn't double check at the time, figuring Valpo by 2 might be plausible since we were close in the KenPom (even if Alabama remains ahead of us there after the win). And now I can't even check the line movements - the university (sensibly, arguably?) seems to have restricted the obvious sites.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: a3uge on November 22, 2016, 04:25:48 PM
Quote from: vusupporter on November 22, 2016, 03:14:36 PM
We weren't favored, Alabama was favored. Alabama is a top-75 team in the Sagarin and the KenPom ratings, and was picked to finish in the top half of the SEC. It's not like beating a top-10 team, but they're far from average.
I stand corrected on being favored - I misread the lines, and I'm probably being overly harsh on Alabama by calling them average. My point is that we keep bringing up games like the Nebraska game, or the Missouri game and try to measure teams based on a handful of games. Valpo fans bracket these teams and elevate them to an undeserved tier... and then when it comes tournament time we wonder why the selection committee doesn't value mid majors.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: SanityLost17 on November 22, 2016, 08:06:10 PM
I think Smits is a lot better player than what he has shown so far.  He seems to have no confidence right now.   In the first couple games he had a few really good looks that were really close to going down.  Last night I thought both foul calls on him were pretty ticky-tac.  After that he couldn't even catch an easy pass, but I think that was mental.  We all know that he has better hands than that.  Those of you who have played sports know what he is going through.  Everything is going wrong and you start putting pressure on yourself and are nervous about making another mistake, and it only makes it worse.   

Hopefully after the BYU/RI/Kentucky stretch he can get some minutes and get his game/confidence back. 
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: bbtds on November 23, 2016, 12:37:38 AM
Quote from: valpotx on November 22, 2016, 04:20:54 AM
Lexus and Max are playing better, so they are getting the PG minutes.  With Tevonn back and other options at SG, Micah is going to have to do something special in limited minutes in order to get more time, or Lexus/Max are going to have to play worse.

I enjoyed this victory not only because it is a Valpo win over a Power 5 team, who was also in the NIT last year, but because there is some d-bag at my son's daycare that always says 'Roll Tide' when he picks up his kid.  It has every kid in that room saying the same stupid thing, including my own on occasion.  I hate Alabama soooooo much :).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-shWSCtOEGI&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpotx on November 23, 2016, 02:36:13 PM
One of the commentators also mentioned near the beginning that Peters will take his 'usual' 26 shots to get 24 points.  While that may have been the case over the first 3-4 games, he obviously did no research on his first 3 years, when he was near the top of the list in scoring efficiency each season!
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: vu72 on November 23, 2016, 03:19:47 PM
Some have said that Alabama isn't very good and that may be true, who knows.  I was curious about their talent level and looked at the player bios.  They have guys that Valpo would only dream of recruiting. Look at this info on how they were ranked coming out of high school:

ESPN #37

#3 ranked player in Alabama

6A Player of the Year

Top 10 center in the country

#56 ranked point guard

ESPN #69

ESPN #98

Mr. Basketball in Alabama

#2 ranked player in the state.

ESPN #33

ESPN #81

And they are coached by Avery Johnson.  I think we did just fine.   :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: a3uge on November 23, 2016, 03:48:57 PM


Quote from: vu72 on November 23, 2016, 03:19:47 PM
Some have said that Alabama isn't very good and that may be true, who knows.  I was curious about their talent level and looked at the player bios.  They have guys that Valpo would only dream of recruiting. Look at this info on how they were ranked coming out of high school:

ESPN #37

#3 ranked player in Alabama

6A Player of the Year

Top 10 center in the country

#56 ranked point guard

ESPN #69

ESPN #98

Mr. Basketball in Alabama

#2 ranked player in the state.

ESPN #33

ESPN #81

And they are coached by Avery Johnson.  I think we did just fine.   :clap: :clap:

That's amazing. And none of those guys were able to score more than 10 points against a team whose highest ESPN recruit was 3 stars (and played 2 minutes). Goes to show how important player development and experience is.
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: wh on November 23, 2016, 04:03:40 PM
Quote from: vu72 on November 23, 2016, 03:19:47 PM
Some have said that Alabama isn't very good and that may be true, who knows.  I was curious about their talent level and looked at the player bios.  They have guys that Valpo would only dream of recruiting. Look at this info on how they were ranked coming out of high school:

ESPN #37

#3 ranked player in Alabama

6A Player of the Year

Top 10 center in the country

#56 ranked point guard

ESPN #69

ESPN #98

Mr. Basketball in Alabama

#2 ranked player in the state.

ESPN #33

ESPN #81

And they are coached by Avery Johnson.  I think we did just fine.   :clap: :clap:

Interesting and informative. 
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: valpotx on November 23, 2016, 06:15:11 PM
I wanted to mention that same thing, as I believe that they have 3 players from the prestigious Oak Hill Academy??
Title: Re: Game #5 - Mon Nov 21, Alabama at the MGM Grand, Las Vegas 11pm CT
Post by: StlVUFan on November 27, 2016, 04:21:40 PM
I was amazed at how bad Alabama looked Wednesday Night against SLU.  It seemed like they didn't really start caring about winning until the final minutes, they did stay with SLU throughout, but I thought SLU outplayed them (except on the scoreboard).  The coach was frantically gesturing at guys who were not where they were supposed to be all game long.

As for our game, the MGM grand announcer was horrible (though the 2 guys doing the game on ESPN 2 were not all that great either).