From here on out... we are playing teams deep in the RPI rankings... Starting with a Santa Clara team from the West Coast Conference with a #317 RPI, Sagarin is #210
So far this year, the Broncos record:
W #325 2-9 Northern Arizona 65-61
L #282 4-6 UC Davis 63-58
L #64 7-2 Tennessee State 69-61
W #213 1-7 Northern Colorado 88-72
W #277 5-6 Sacred Heart 84-74 OK FINE, I fixed it, yes they are Marshall's twin.
L #31 10-2 Arizona 69-61
L #85 6-5 VanderBryce 76-66 and Yeh, at FULL STRENGTH, I think we give the Commodores a "whatfor"
L #143 4-7 UC Irvine 58-55
L #169 3-4 San Jose State 55-40 (first true road game of year)
W ------ --- Cal State East Bay 75-50
W #312 0-6 Cal State Riverside 77-53
L #194 5-5 Washington State 69-68
They are 0-6 against the top 200 RPI teams
They are 0-4 away from the Bay area.
Questions:
Do these results mean we could probably beat Vanderbryce?
Is Sacred Herd the benign twin of Marshall U.?
and pardon the double post... here's the espn summary of the Santa Clara - Wazoo game in Pullman:
12/17/2016 Washington State 69 Santa Clara 68 Pullman 3PM
PULLMAN, Wash. -- Josh Hawkinson scored 21 points and Washington State staged a furious comeback in the last six minutes, defeating Santa Clara 69-68 on Saturday when Charles Callison came up with the game-saving block.
The Cougars (6-5) scored 14 of the game's final 16 points, but couldn't breathe a sigh of relief until Callison sealed the win with his last second block of SCU's Jared Brownridge. It was only fitting that the game lied in their hands, as Brownridge had scored 25 points and Callison was at the center of WSU's rally.
The Cougars trailed 66-55 with less than six minutes to play when they began to catch their rhythm. Callison brought WSU to within 66-65 on a 3-pointer with 2:09 remaining, and his layup with 1:25 left gave the team its first lead since halftime.
Santa Clara (5-7) missed its last seven shots, but still had a chance to send the game into overtime in the closing seconds when they trailed 69-66. WSU chose to foul Jarvis Pugh with seven seconds left to prevent a 3-pointer, and his pair of free throws brought within one.
Callison, who ranks third in the Pac-12 in free throw percentage, missed the front end of a one-and-one to set the stage for the thrilling conclusion. Brownridge pulled up near the 3-point line, only to have Callison swat away the game winner.
"I knew he was going to try to get the last shot up at the 3 and I just tried to make a big play and not foul him," Callison said.
WSU showed a level of resiliency that was lacking in previous seasons, but third-year WSU coach Ernie Kent believe Saturday's comeback could be the turning in his program.
"One of the things that has kept me awake a lot of nights the last three years is when they have that saying at the end of an event here that we Coug'd it and I always kept saying `Boy, wouldn't it be great to change that around to where it meant a positive thing, that Coug'd it means you pulled it out,' " Kent said. "...Maybe this is the start of something for us."
BIG PICTURE
Santa Clara: Brownridge reached the 25-point mark for the fourth time this season, and improved his scoring average to 17.6 points per game. His seven made 3-pointers tied a season high. The Broncos have one game remaining before West Coast Conference play begins against BYU.
Vanderbryce is down to 9 players 🤐
Anyways, I'm taking valpo in a 82-68 win.
While obviously a weaker opponent, this game reminds me of the Saint Mary's game in the NIT last year. Santa Clara has not played a game east of Las Vegas this season, and they probably won't again after this (barring a postseason tournament)
Quote from: talksalot on December 17, 2016, 10:09:55 PML #85 6-5 VanderBryceBruce 76-66 and Yeh, at FULL STRENGTH, I think we give the Commodores a "whatfor"
Quote from: talksalot on December 17, 2016, 10:09:55 PML #85 6-5 VanderBryceBruce VanderAndersonCooper 76-66 and Yeh, at FULL STRENGTH, I think we give the Commodores a "whatfor"
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 18, 2016, 09:49:42 AMAm I the only one that looks at our remaining schedule and thinks undefeated?
Yes, and 2 more regular season losses plus a HL tournament loss might head us back to the NIT. :o
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 18, 2016, 09:49:42 AMAm I the only one that looks at our remaining schedule and thinks undefeated? Our conference schedule is so easy and the horizon league is pretty weak this year. I think it's very very possible to do so. I'm sure there will be 1 disappointing loss though, always seems to happen. But still it's a very easy schedule so who knows.
Oakland and WSU will be really tough, especially on the road. Remember we will get their best game each time.
I've watched Santa Clara play Arizona the last two years, they beat the Wildcats last season. If Brownridge gets going he can flat out score. Hoping to be back in Indiana so I can make a trip to the ARC for my one game a year!
Crusaders 79
Broncos 68
Time to RUN the Table - no reason it can't be done ;D
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 18, 2016, 11:01:52 AMOakland and WSU will be really tough, especially on the road. Remember we will get their best game each time.
I believe Northern KY, Oakland, Wright State and even Cleveland State and Green Bay will all be pretty tough to beat on the road.
Santa Clara will want to slow things down - hopefully we won't let that happen.
Valpo 78
Santa Clara 58
Quote from: Valpo89 on December 19, 2016, 10:42:52 AM
Regarding Santa Clara, I sat by a couple ladies who said one reason they scheduled the game is because Santa Clara has a 'local' kid on the team - maybe from Aurora? I haven't looked at the roster yet, but they were excited for the game. I believe a neighbor in Valpo is a grandmother or something. So that's a home game for Valpo while NOT having to make a trip to Fort Wayne so Tom Davis could blast the Crusaders for something else. He's got a nice, long history of doing that.
Looks like Jared Brownridge, a senior for the Broncos, out of Waubonsie Valley in Aurora. Northern Illinois, and some others, might have been a bit closer. But, not a bad homecoming game.
Seems like we played another team recently with a Waubonsie alum...
Valpo 77
Steve Nash U 63
Quote from: valpotx on December 19, 2016, 02:20:15 PM
Valpo 77
Steve Nash U 63
From the small world Valpo department, in 1996 at the Arizona Invitational Tourney aka NCAA 1st round at ASU, the opening game that afternoon (Valpo played the last game of the day), involved Santa Clara and a floppy haired point guard named Steve Nash. We had a NBA scout sitting behind us for the afternoon session. We discussed his view of Nash. It was a cautious review not predicting a perennial NBA all-star and future Hall of Famer. BTW, Nash played great and they pulled the upset of 7 seed Maryland. Thought it was a good omen....
Next time I saw Santa Clara live was probably December 2005 at UNC where John Bryant was a frosh 6'11 325 lb Center. He drew comparisons to Big Country Reeves. He squared off a pretty decent Frosh class UNC team with Ty Hansbrough and Danny Green among others. That was the same weekend as Valpo at Duke @ Cameron. Oppland had a good game.... Wonderful college hoops weekend though at Dean Dome and Cameron....
NCAA Official Stats through Tuesday Night Games...
Comparing VU's national ranking to SC's national ranking...
STAT VU SC Vu Better?
Blocked Shots Per Game 234 322 BETTER
Defensive Rebounds per Game 149 287 BETTER
Fewest Fouls 213 238 BETTER
Field-Goal Percentage Defense 185 215 BETTER
Free Throw Percentage 6 134 BETTER
Free Throws Attempted 66 303 BETTER
Free Throws Made 24 288 BETTER
Offensive Rebounds Per Game 64 334 BETTER
Rebound Margin 70 282 BETTER
Scoring Margin 158 181 BETTER
Scoring Offense 136 305 BETTER
Steals Per Game 81 270 BETTER
Three-Point Field Goal Defense 147 328 BETTER
Total Blocks 233 303 BETTER
Total Rebounds 111 243 BETTER
Total Rebounds Per Game 77 335 BETTER
Total Steals 97 231 BETTER
Turnovers Forced 85 221 BETTER
Won-Lost Percentage 36 237 BETTER
and these are the places the Broncos are better than Valpo:
Assist Turnover Ratio 308 73 WORSE
Assists Per Game 300 179 WORSE
Fewest Turnovers 230 104 WORSE
Field-Goal Percentage 274 230 WORSE
Personal Fouls Per Game 230 160 WORSE
Scoring Defense 194 48 WORSE
Three-Point Field Goals Attempted 208 31 WORSE
Three-Point Field Goals Per Game 288 71 WORSE
Three-Point Field-Goal Percentage 324 169 WORSE
Total Three-Point Field Goals Made 277 44 WORSE
Total Assists 273 120 WORSE
Turnover Margin 160 84 WORSE
Turnovers Per Game 253 29 WORSE
here's the box score from the Wazoo game... they only go 7-deep
http://www.santaclarabroncos.com/sports/m-baskbl/2016-17/boxscores/20161217_h8wx.xml
They only shot 4 free throws (made all of them)
12 of 27 from Three Point Range
14 of 32 from Two Point Range
Their Aurora player appears to be their "show"... played every minute, took 33% of their shots
Washington State packed in 2388 at the Beasley Center, its current seating capacity is 11,671 for basketball.
wow... check out these attendance numbers...
http://www.santaclarabroncos.com/sports/m-baskbl/2016-17/teams/santaclara?view=attendance
ok, you VENUE band-wagoneers....
Here's the Santa Clara gym... and their plan for renovation.
http://www.santaclarabroncos.com/general/2015-16/releases/20160602qo8hxz
notice the average home attendance is about 1100 this year.
from the SC Game Notes... some explanation of their 7-man rotation at Wazoo...
• Santa Clara has been missing pieces in its rotation this season.
Sophomore point guard KJ Feagin broke a bone in his foot during the first week of preseason practice and has yet to play a game. Sophomore guard Evan Wardlow has been injured most of the last two seasons. He was relegated to seven games last year due to a wrist injury and has seen only 54 minutes of action this year because to a hamstring injury. He reinjured the hamstring last week in practice is out indefinitely.
• Junior forward Matt Hubbard had offseason ankle surgery and was limited to 52 minutes in eight of the first 12 games. However, Hubbard decided this week to leave the program. He is on schedule to graduate in the spring. Hubbard played in 68 career games (37 starts), averaging 5.8 points and 3.1 rebounds.
• Injuries have forced the Broncos to shorten rotation.
Guards Jared Brownridge and Matt Hauser, and forward Nate Kratch have started all 12 games. Forward Jarvis Pugh has started 11 games. Brownridge
Hauser, Kratch and Pugh are averaging 30-plus minutes per game. Brownridge, Hauser and Pugh have seen the most time, averaging 31 or more minutes per contest. Forwards Henrik Jadersten (20.7 minutes pg) and guard Kai Healy (20.9) are the only other players to see action in all 12 games and play at least 10 minutes each outing. Jadersten and Healy helped the Broncos scored a season-high 25 bench points in last week's win over UC Riverside (Dec. 13). Healy posted his first-career double-double with 10 points and a career-high tying 10 rebounds. Jadersten scored 13 points and collected seven rebounds.
• Hauser (16 points/10 assists vs. N. Colorado, Nov. 19) became the first Santa Clara player to post double digit points and assists in the same game since Evan Roquemore (14 points/11 assists) against Pacific (Dec. 17, 2011). He followed that up with his second career double-double (14 points/11 assists) vs. Sacred Heart (Nov. 21).
• With 36 points vs. Vanderbilt (Nov. 25), Brownridge, who earned a spot of the Continental Tire Las Vegas Invitational tournament team, posted his ninth-career game of 30 or more points, the most in school history. He was tied with the school's all-time leading scorer Kevin Foster.
• Brownridge scored 25 points vs. Washington State (Dec. 17), connecting on 7 of 14 from behind the 3-point line. He recorded seven or more made 3-pointers for the eighth time in his career, extending his own school record. Kevin Foster (2008-13) had five in his career, including the single-game record of nine (vs. Air Force, March 18, 2011).
Here's what they say about us:
Head coach Matt Lottich is in his first season and has his team is off to a 9-2 start with its two losses coming against Oregon and Kentucky, both nationally ranked. Senior forward Alec Peters is the second-leading scorer in the nation, pouring in 25.6 points per game on 45.0 percent shooting from the floor and 94.4 percent from the free-throw line. Peters is also second in the country in free throws made at 84 on 89 tries. Senior guard Shane Hammink is second on the team in scoring at 14.7 per game while junior guard Tevonn Walker averages 11.3 ppg. After going 30-7 last season with a trip to the NCAAs, the Crusaders are the favorites to claim the Horizon League title. Santa Clara and Valparaiso will be meeting for the first time.
Herb Sendek - their coach...from Miami Ohio, NC State and Arizona State. Has never coached against Valpo. (one of the few with 400+ wins who hasn't). We played NC State the year after he left; and we last played Arizona State two years before he got there.
Valpo 68
Santa Clara 55
They gave us a trip to the NCAA's...that was nice of them :-X
Quote from: talksalot on December 21, 2016, 10:53:44 AM
ok, you VENUE band-wagoneers....
Here's the Santa Clara gym... and their plan for renovation.
http://www.santaclarabroncos.com/general/2015-16/releases/20160602qo8hxz
notice the average home attendance is about 1100 this year.
Do you think the VU board ever compares budgets to other schools and wonders how they save so much on athletic facilities?
Someone should ask Herb how Richie Edwards worked out for him :)
Quote from: valpotx on December 21, 2016, 12:54:20 PMSomeone should ask Herb how Richie Edwards worked out for him
I had never connected the dots on that Arizona St. event. Not one of his better decisions.
Richie could have had a far more useful Sr season with us (off the bench) than he delivered for ASU after a redshirt year.
Spread: -12
Nolan has us 74-61, O/U is 136.5 on the Vegas line.
I wonder if the return-match-date has been set for us to go to the Bay Area next season... ? I see Santa Clara just signed a H/H with USC for 2017 and 2018 (it's on their athletics splash-page!)
We better bring it tonight. This could be a trap game if we are looking past it toward a Christmas break.
..... and Chicago State.
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 22, 2016, 08:31:05 AM
..... and Chicago State.
Can't be looking ahead to Chicago State!
Maybe the visiting crowd from Santa Clara / Aurora will wake up our players...
Focus on the Prize !
Let's start the scheduling rumor mill, sounds like a pairing of Santa Clara and Stanford would be a nice Cali trip next year. Cal, St Marys and San Francisco (formerly coached by former VU Asst Rex Walters) are other options.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX8eaJXOePI
It often seems like our beat writers (how lucky are we to have two quality writers?) end up with similar stories. I've assumed because the quotes etc. may come from common press availability sessions.
This week they're distinctly different.
Paul focusing on scheduling
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/valparaiso-welcomes-another-west-coast-opponent/article_b5821036-327a-5255-9665-da7baf08772b.html
Osipoff focusing on Sorolla
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-jaume-sorolla-st-1222-20161221-story.html
Quote from: valpo84 on December 22, 2016, 11:02:08 AM
Let's start the scheduling rumor mill, sounds like a pairing of Santa Clara and Stanford would be a nice Cali trip next year. Cal, St Marys and San Francisco (formerly coached by former VU Asst Rex Walters) are other options.
While Stanford and Cal would be great, establishing a relationship with St. Marys makes sense from a Mid-Major perspective. For travel logistics, San Jose State may make the most sense, as it is about 2 miles away!
A ton of turnovers and two fouls already in the first few minutes for Tevonn. That could really hurt...
Quote from: FWalum on December 22, 2016, 07:13:19 PM
A ton of turnovers and two fouls already in the first few minutes for Tevonn. That could really hurt...
Tevonn's 2nd foul was trying to fight through a screen.
Santa Clara is excellent at setting screens. Every one of them is extremely close to illegal, but not actually illegal. The guy setting the screen steps over as soon as his teammate runs past him, but is set just barely in time when the defender gets there.
Solution -- Needs to be less space for the guy to step over, so if they try it it is an illegal screen. We are following too far behind.
Such a weird game.
T. Walker didn't get his first shot until mid way in 2nd half.
No Hammick Hammer yet? When was the last time he hasn't had a dunk in a game?
Very disappointed in our guard play. It will have won or lost this OT. Lexus needs to man up and we need some movement back door with Peters being over played.
I don't think that Hammink should be running the point. We got lucky with him having 2 turnovers at the end of regulation. Tevonn is going to be really bruised up after this game running through all of these "screens".
That sucked, too many mistakes.
I hope this FINALLY ends the run the offense through Hammink experiment.
That was just a bad loss, especially at home. Yes, Santa Clara shot lights out in the first half, but that is not a team we should lose to at home. Why in the world did we take a 40 foot shot at the end of the first OT when we had 20 seconds left? I understand that Peters can make that, but if we just need to win by 1, and have the ball for a last shot when tied, why not chance taking it to the hoop? If you get fouled, you can win it at the FT line. If you miss it, you at least took a better shot. That was disappointing to see Alec take a shot that a FR would take, not a seasoned veteran. If we would have had any shot at an at-large by winning out in conference (also not likely), this loss will be a large negative on our resume.
Unbelievable... we lost to Santa Clara. Are you :censored: kidding me? They're ass. We are a totally different team without jubril. He should not be kicked off the team for the season for cheating on home work are you kidding me? What kind of university is this? Obviously not one that's very invested in their basketball program our facilities are :censored:. If that happened at a big name school you can bet your ass nothing would happen. We are a mediocre team now. $20 we don't go to the tourney I'm done keeping up hardcore with this team for the season. It's gonna be a frustrating rest of the year, nick Davidson is playing decent minutes and that says somethjng. You all can try and look at nick playing as it being okay when in reality it's not he's not good he's not a scoring threat he's just capable of not screwing up the game while he's in. Which is something you'd want as a mediocre university/basketball program. WHEN ARE WE GONNA MAKE THE NEXT STEP TO BE BUTLER? Probably never cuz our university doesn't do :censored: to make it happen. Embarrassing
Our annual 'wth' loss. Very disappointed. What a debacle. We always seem to lose a stupid one right about this time of year. I remember losses to Oakland and Loyola in years past.
It will be said a lot, but it's a different game with Jubril.
We missed a lot of free throws in the first half. Also missed a dunk and I think there was a botched alley-oop in there.
Peters finished with 30-something points, but it seemed to me like he went cold in OT. Got tired I'm guessing. We need to find other reliable scoring options.
Lottich calls fewer timeouts than BD did. Have to wonder if we could have set something up at the end of the first overtime instead of Peters taking an NBA range 3.
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 22, 2016, 09:19:12 PM
Unbelievable... we lost to Santa Clara. Are you :censored: kidding me? They're ass. We are a totally different team without jubril. He should not be kicked off the team for the season for cheating on home work are you kidding me? What kind of university is this? Obviously not one that's very invested in their basketball program our facilities are :censored:. If that happened at a big name school you can bet your ass nothing would happen. We are a mediocre team now. $20 we don't go to the tourney I'm done keeping up hardcore with this team for the season. It's gonna be a frustrating rest of the year, nick Davidson is playing decent minutes and that says somethjng. You all can try and look at nick playing as it being okay when in reality it's not he's not good he's not a scoring threat he's just capable of not screwing up the game while he's in. Which is something you'd want as a mediocre university/basketball program. WHEN ARE WE GONNA MAKE THE NEXT STEP TO BE BUTLER? Probably never cuz our university doesn't do :censored: to make it happen. Embarrassing
Bye Felicia
Yeah, that wasn't just an NBA range 3, that was very close to half-court ;)
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 22, 2016, 09:19:12 PMWe are a totally different team without jubril. He should not be kicked off the team for the season for cheating on home work are you kidding me?
Nothing like this has been announced.
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 22, 2016, 09:19:12 PMWhat kind of university is this? Obviously not one that's very invested in their basketball program our facilities are :censored: . If that happened at a big name school you can bet your ass nothing would happen.
If allegations are true, we're a university that takes academics seriously, as we should.
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 22, 2016, 09:19:12 PMWe are a mediocre team now. $20 we don't go to the tourney I'm done keeping up hardcore with this team for the season.
We're still the favorites to win the HL.
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 22, 2016, 09:19:12 PMWHEN ARE WE GONNA MAKE THE NEXT STEP TO BE BUTLER? Probably never cuz our university doesn't do :censored: to make it happen. Embarrassing
Won't happen overnight. Butler made two national championship runs, and it's December, so let's back off the ledge a bit.
Quote from: valpotx on December 22, 2016, 09:17:33 PM
That was just a bad loss, especially at home. Yes, Santa Clara shot lights out in the first half, but that is not a team we should lose to at home. Why in the world did we take a 40 foot shot at the end of the first OT when we had 20 seconds left? I understand that Peters can make that, but if we just need to win by 1, and have the ball for a last shot when tied, why not chance taking it to the hoop? If you get fouled, you can win it at the FT line. If you miss it, you at least took a better shot. That was disappointing to see Alec take a shot that a FR would take, not a seasoned veteran. If we would have had any shot at an at-large by winning out in conference (also not likely), this loss will be a large negative on our resume.
I totally agree, but don't put all the blame on Peters. The coaches had timeouts and chose to let that happen. They saw him standing 45 feet from the basket for 10 seconds and were apparently happy with that.
The player that had the biggest impact on tonight's game was sitting on Valpo's bench in street clothes. We had a short bench as it was, but without Jubril we simply don't have enough scorers to win a game like this, not to mention that the tank was on empty from about the 5-minute mark in regulation on.
Oh well, not the end of the world. Merry Christmas everyone!
I'm hearing a lot of "There goes our at-large hopes" talk. To that, I just want to point out that we had FOUR 'bad' losses last year (Ball State, Wright State x2, and Green Bay), a weaker non-conference resume, and still managed to be the last one out. If we run the table (or maybe drop one HL game) and lose in the tourney final, we'll have two or three 'bad' losses, with better non-conference wins. I'd like to think we'd still have a pretty good chance at getting in. LOTS of season left, and it will depend on other bubble teams. Is that scenario likely? No. But hope springs eternal.
I guess so. However, there are several mid-major teams with similar records to ours, that have more marquee wins than us. As we have seen in recent years, only so many mid-majors get chosen as an at-large, while worse teams like Michigan, Syracuse, and Vanderbilt get into the tourney instead.
Quote from: wh on December 22, 2016, 09:37:45 PM
The player that had the biggest impact on tonight's game was sitting on Valpo's bench in street clothes. We had a short bench as it was, but without Jubril we simply don't have enough scorers to win a game like this, not to mention that the tank was on empty from about the 5-minute mark in regulation on.
Oh well, not the end of the world. Merry Christmas everyone!
You're completely right.
Quote from: hailcrusaders on December 22, 2016, 09:39:16 PM
I'm hearing a lot of "There goes our at-large hopes" talk. To that, I just want to point out that we had FOUR 'bad' losses last year (Ball State, Wright State x2, and Green Bay), a weaker non-conference resume, and still managed to be the last one out. If we run the table (or maybe drop one HL game) and lose in the tourney final, we'll have two or three 'bad' losses, with better non-conference wins. I'd like to think we'd still have a pretty good chance at getting in. LOTS of season left, and it will depend on other bubble teams. Is that scenario likely? No. But hope springs eternal.
The dreaded a-l word! There's lots of season left, but in all likelihood we'll drop a few conference games, like all good teams do. Even the Butler national champion runner up lost to a rebuilding Valpo team. Last season and this season almost feel like every game is a tournament game with the at large pressure. Really excruciating to watch. Everyone else in the horizon are playing with nothing to lose, and we still have a big target on our backs.
That was a game full of WTH moments...one bad OOC loss is survivable.
I was disappointed they weren't able to draw up more for alec in OT. Or spread it out and let Walker go on the attack.
I don't care what anyone else says, or how little he scores, but Nick Davidson gives me more confidence in our ball security, versus anyone else on the team. He is not going to make a boneheaded pass, or start a defended drive that has you screaming at the video stream :). Shane is extremely athletic, but probably has more WTF moments than any Valpo player since Ali Berdiel.
Quote from: a3uge on December 22, 2016, 09:46:40 PMThe dreaded a-l word!
I had no at-large hopes even with Jubril, but without him it was nothing but a pipe dream. Our freshmen development will determine our post season chances and they still have a long way to go.
I see at least 2 more regular season losses but you just never know where they might come from. If Jubril can not return then 3+ losses are more likely. Relax and enjoy this ride while remembering that we are still on or ahead of schedule.
I guess that this can be our Ball State loss, but SC had an RPI in the 300s. It will improve after today, so hopefully they do well in the WCC, and this loss doesn't look AS bad as it feels at the moment.
Guys, it was a bad loss, BUT, it was a team that shot lights out not against pretty solid defense, they shot lights out against ANYONE!! Here are the stats: They shot 43% from 3 and 92% from the foul line. Regardless, you aren't going to win many against that. We played a very solid game. Sometimes that just isn't good enough. :(
I thought this was the case weeks ago - Valpo is not a good enough team to get an at large berth. We got blown out by Oregon and Kentucky and lost at home to Santa Clara.
That being said, the way the Horizon looks, I think Valpo is a prohibitive favorite to win the conference and its tournament.
BTW - what is really going on with Adekoya?
It was clear that Alec and Shane were totally gassed in overtime. Part of the problem was the way that the game was being called. The contrast between the amount of body contact -- especially under the hoop -- that went uncalled and the minor hand contact that drew a whistle was more extreme than I remember, and I'm sure that it added to the wear over the course of the game. There are several plays that stick out in my mind. Shane was unable to lift his hands quickly enough to catch a pass while he was wide open under the basket. Alec was unable to react quickly enough to grab a defensive rebound that dropped to the right side of the hoop and was recovered by Santa Clara for a reboot. And of course the shot at the end of the first overtime -- it seemed that Alec was thinking that it was too much effort to try to drive to the hoop and the odds of drawing a foul were minimal, so he just threw the ball up towards the basket even though his legs were failing him.
I believe Todd said this was the first game back for Feagin who logged 22 minutes at guard. Sometimes the return of a missing piece can allow you to take on a whole new approach not reveled in the previous game tapes. Other people suddenly become more dangerous.
This was the team I was worried about when I watched them play Arizona. Wait------- Didn't Talksalot tell me not to worry about them. ;)
I did not post this at the time, but with our schedule I thought we'd end non conference with 5 loses. We have a good chance to only take 3 L's...I'm pretty happy with our effort and results.
I'm going to give the first 1/3 of our season an A-
1/3 = non conference
1/3 = HL
1/3 = tournament play
Just a shame not to close the deal on an exceptional pre-conference. Our RPI dropped from #36 yesterday to #71 today!!
I can't believe I am knocking Alec, but he may have cost himself a bunch of money in taking that 35-footer at end of first OT. With a win his scoring average, plus a long run with two losses would have drawn more attention in early January. If you look at the January schedule at posting loss #3 in February.
If NBA scouts were looking at this, it shows a troubling lack of confidence in his ability to create a shot off the dribble. At least he could have drawn a foul and made 1 of 2 in his sleep. A cynic could say that the end call at Missouri State bailed him out of another missed 30 footer at the buzzer.
So much time left to dribble drive and allow a tip in from a miss.
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 22, 2016, 09:31:07 PMI totally agree, but don't put all the blame on Peters. The coaches had timeouts and chose to let that happen. They saw him standing 45 feet from the basket for 10 seconds and were apparently happy with that.
Very curious indeed! I know simple is often best (fewer turnovers) but the strategy of standing around for a last second chuck from deep might have been a bit too uncomplicated. Didn't we decide after Oregon that Micah should be our designated chucker? ::)
ValpoFan1000 is either a troll or needs to get a life. Watch some 80's clips of Valpo hoops, the coaching brilliance of Tom Smith and the cordiality of Rob Harden and you will appreciate what we have today.
Quote from: crusadermoe on December 23, 2016, 12:47:15 PMIf NBA scouts were looking at this, it shows a troubling lack of confidence in his ability to create a shot off the dribble.
You must be talking about Peter Peters, certainly not Alec. He creates shots all day long! He will drive and take it off the glass. Back a guy down and fade away or create contact and still make the shot. He was flat out gassed. He played a hell of a game shooting 40% from 3, scoring 35 points and 13 rebounds. The blame if any should go to Jabril. Because of the nature of the game and their shooters, we had to have guys who could keep up with them and Jabril would have allowed either Alec or Shane to get a blow once in a while. Playing 50 minutes would tire out anyone. Our bench in incredibly thin. You are going to have problems when your bench gets 4 points and 5 rebounds in 51 minutes of play.
Maybe it was mentioned earlier, but in a game full of curious plays we can't ignore Lexus' foul in the second OT. Really bad decision to foul with 8 seconds left on the shot clock and 25 seconds left in the game already down 3.
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 22, 2016, 09:19:12 PMUnbelievable... we lost to Santa Clara. Are you :censored: kidding me? They're ass. We are a totally different team without jubril. He should not be kicked off the team for the season for cheating on home work are you kidding me? What kind of university is this? Obviously not one that's very invested in their basketball program our facilities are :censored:. If that happened at a big name school you can bet your ass nothing would happen. We are a mediocre team now. $20 we don't go to the tourney I'm done keeping up hardcore with this team for the season. It's gonna be a frustrating rest of the year, nick Davidson is playing decent minutes and that says somethjng. You all can try and look at nick playing as it being okay when in reality it's not he's not good he's not a scoring threat he's just capable of not screwing up the game while he's in. Which is something you'd want as a mediocre university/basketball program. WHEN ARE WE GONNA MAKE THE NEXT STEP TO BE BUTLER? Probably never cuz our university doesn't do :censored: to make it happen. Embarrassing
Please. You've already put up enough in 8 posts to establish you aren't any part of "we".
Anyone else wanting to throw some shots at me? Raise your expectations for the program and maybe you'll be as frustrated as me. Should've capitalized after our sweet 16 run and we didn't. Should've capitalized after Bryce drew left and we didn't. We need to take steps and we aren't. We just lost to a team with a 300 RPI how is that okay? Butler would never do that. Cmon stop being so biased and be stern for once
Retaining all but one player when one of the players retained is a potential NBA draft pick who could have gone to any school he wanted sounds like a pretty damn good capitalization after losing a coach that was ubiqutous with your program for years.
Your stern talking to on this message board will definitely make great changes in the program, I particularly liked your earlier suggestion that we look the other way about broken rules and potentially put our program at risk even more to win a couple more games during a season where we were never expected to get an at large bid.
we have a troll on the board!
Hey, it is frustrating losing to Santa Clara, but you have to take this program for what it is. It will never be Kentucky or UCLA on a regular basis. It can become a Butler, but the university is conservative financially and won't take a risk investing in an upgraded ARC.
Merry Christmas ya'll, and may the USC Trojans and Adoree Jackson have a happy new year.
Quote from: crusadermoe on December 23, 2016, 12:47:15 PM
Just a shame not to close the deal on an exceptional pre-conference. Our RPI dropped from #36 yesterday to #71 today!!
I can't believe I am knocking Alec, but he may have cost himself a bunch of money in taking that 35-footer at end of first OT. With a win his scoring average, plus a long run with two losses would have drawn more attention in early January. If you look at the January schedule at posting loss #3 in February.
If NBA scouts were looking at this, it shows a troubling lack of confidence in his ability to create a shot off the dribble. At least he could have drawn a foul and made 1 of 2 in his sleep. A cynic could say that the end call at Missouri State bailed him out of another missed 30 footer at the buzzer.
So much time left to dribble drive and allow a tip in from a miss.
It was one play. I think Alec has shown the ability to drive and draw a foul
Fair enough. Alec has been a phenom and carried us this year. And yes, he has dramatically improved his shot creation.
I think I just felt bad for Alec since he was on the cusp of even more national recognition for all his hard work. He is incredible and has done the university a great favor by returning and hopefully proved even more to the NBA.
Hey, Oakland beat Georgia, a top 50 RPI team!! That will help nudge us up a bitmore if we beat Oakland. It is fun to have so many opponents to cheer on to great seasons; BYU, Santa Clara, Alabama, MoState, Rhode Island, and Sycamores. We have NEVER played so many teams capable of top 100 RPI rankings. Capable that is...
Merry Christmas all!!
Merry Christmas to all!!
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 23, 2016, 06:19:28 PM
Anyone else wanting to throw some shots at me? Raise your expectations for the program and maybe you'll be as frustrated as me. Should've capitalized after our sweet 16 run and we didn't. Should've capitalized after Bryce drew left and we didn't. We need to take steps and we aren't. We just lost to a team with a 300 RPI how is that okay? Butler would never do that. Cmon stop being so biased and be stern for once
I'm not in the habit of taking such huffing and puffing seriously about a team for which at-large bids are the scraps that fall from the master's table. Only a few of them are apportioned to the 250 or so lower-tiered schools in Division I, mainly because non-conference scheduling is so damn corrupt (but such corruption is legally sanctioned) that Valpo will never be seriously in play for an at-large because we'll never be allowed to amass the kind of schedule required for it. At-large will always be a pipe-dream. Once a year, Valpo will stub its toe and a bunch of folks will be all over this board and social media groaning about our at-large possibilities going down the drain, and I will chuckle to myself at the outrage expressed without any sense of context.
Before you slobber too much over Butler, please remember they have a famous arena to play in on their own campus. They probably have done better than us at elevating a Men's basketball program, but they've also gotten damn lucky in a lot of different ways. They are, to use one of the weaker definitions, "an exception that proves the rule."
Furthermore, if you are clamoring for special academic treatment for student-athletes, you're barking up the wrong tree here. You might as well go into full hate-valpo mode and pick some other school to root for because I don't think you're ever going to get your wish here.
Bryce Drew beat his brains in trying to assemble an at-large worthy schedule, for all the good it did us. I'm convinced that part of the reason he left is because he got tired of competing for at-large consideration with one hand tied behind his back - and that's NOT on Valpo, that's on the NCAA. Until non-conference scheduling becomes less Darwinian and more dedicated to the pure spirit of competition, I adamantly refuse to share even an iota of your outrage.
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 26, 2016, 02:28:15 PM
Bryce Drew beat his brains in trying to assemble an at-large worthy schedule, for all the good it did us. I'm convinced that part of the reason he left is because he got tired of competing for at-large consideration with one hand tied behind his back - and that's NOT on Valpo, that's on the NCAA. Until non-conference scheduling becomes less Darwinian and more dedicated to the pure spirit of competition, I adamantly refuse to share even an iota of your outrage.
The NCAA probably won't, but they
should do more to help out schools like Valpo who don't have the means to compete with the power schools like Oregon and Kentucky. Not sure how that works, exactly, but would love to hear any ideas you have that might level the playing field.
Despite the challenges, Valpo does have an opportunity every year to earn their way into the NCAAT field and prove they belong, despite the challenges they face in non-conference scheduling.
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 23, 2016, 06:19:28 PM
Anyone else wanting to throw some shots at me? Raise your expectations for the program and maybe you'll be as frustrated as me. Should've capitalized after our sweet 16 run and we didn't. Should've capitalized after Bryce drew left and we didn't. We need to take steps and we aren't. We just lost to a team with a 300 RPI how is that okay? Butler would never do that. Cmon stop being so biased and be stern for once
Rather than piss and moan why don't you provide us with examples of what we should have done after Bryce left. Lay out a plan...bitching is easy....
First and foremost, as a father of a Valpo student, I encouraged her to attend Valpo based on the academic experience she would enjoy, not because of Athletics. As a fan it hurts to see Jubril out but I support the university's stance on his status with the team and one needs to fully understand that if taken care of properly in house than the NCAA will leave it alone and not introduce an inquiry. This program would be hurt if they took a scholarship or two away for a year or banned us from post season play. Not saying this matter is that egregious to warrant such penalties but the fact is you don't want them investigating you just ,Ike you don't want the IRS auditing you.
As far as the game, I was there and must say we were flat but to Santa Clara's credit and especially Brownridge, they came out of the box ready to go. Had a nice fan base their too. Alec Peters is a very special player but if he has to take nearly 50% and between him and Hammink, 2/3 of them, we are going to struggle a few more times this year. It seemed late in the game and especially overtime, we would get the ball to him and everyone would stand and watch instead of moving. Then when they collapsed on him we had guys open on the perimeter and he tried to force something or draw contact. Williams and Walker need to step up. I know Walker got into early foul trouble but he played some significant minutes and is far too good to score only 7 points. And in 50 minutes of basketball Williams put up 5 shots. That is one every 10 minutes of game play. Far too little. Ha minks 5 TOs didn't help the cause either.
The offense should go through Peters without a doubt but it doesn't need to end with him 1of every 2 possessions.
I agree with most of what you said. However, late in the game and in OT Peters needs a touch in every possession. Maybe it was a bit of fatigue, but that didn't really seem to be happening enough the last few minutes of regulation and thought the OTs.
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 26, 2016, 09:32:08 PMNot sure how that works, exactly, but would love to hear any ideas you have that might level the playing field.
I wish I had the answer, but I thought Mark Adams' rant last year was good starting place: outlaw all buy (guarantee) games. Period. Every non-conference game must be a straight home-and-home or on a neutral court. If someone with leverage wanted to take this on, I'd suggest that they start with this and tell anyone with a frown on their face to come up with a better idea.
There are a, perhaps, a couple of things I don't like about that idea, but I think it would get the conversation started a lot better than my lame idea from a few years ago (which I shared with no one, I think) of establishing a neutral committee to approve all non-conference scheduling. :crazy: :lol: :banghead:
Quote from: hailcrusaders on December 22, 2016, 09:39:16 PM
I'm hearing a lot of "There goes our at-large hopes" talk. To that, I just want to point out that we had FOUR 'bad' losses last year (Ball State, Wright State x2, and Green Bay), a weaker non-conference resume, and still managed to be the last one out. If we run the table (or maybe drop one HL game) and lose in the tourney final, we'll have two or three 'bad' losses, with better non-conference wins. I'd like to think we'd still have a pretty good chance at getting in. LOTS of season left, and it will depend on other bubble teams. Is that scenario likely? No. But hope springs eternal.
According to "RPI FORECAST by FINAL RECORD" we have a ZERO chance of receiving an at-large bid. As shown below, even if we run the table for the rest of the regular season and lose in the HL tournament championship game our final RPI will be 39. By comparison, last year's final RPI was 31. If 31 wasn't good enough last year, 39 won't be either.
Record RPI Chance
27-3 32.1 0.19%
26-4 39.2 2.13%
25-5 47.7 6.20%
24-6 57.3 14.85%
23-7 68.7 20.72%
So, why a shorter leash on losses this year than last? Last year's strength of schedule was ranked much higher - both in-conference and out:
2015-16 22 OOC 127 Overall
2016-17 93 OOC 192 Overall (expected)
Simply put, after the Oregon and Kentucky losses, anything short of running the table prior to losing the HL Tournament championship game would take us out of contention for an at large bid.
Last, but not least, even if we get the automatic bid, we are probably looking at a 13-15 seed, depending on how many additional losses we pick up between now and then. Essentially, the die is already cast on the final outcome of the 2016-17 season - an opening round NCAA Tournament loss to a 2-4 seed, an auto bid into the NIT, or an invitation to some low level post season tournament. If anyone has expectations higher than this, now might be a good time to dial them back to something more realistic.
http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html
My source tells me Alec peters is out tonight.
Quote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 28, 2016, 03:11:12 PM
My source tell me Alec peters is out tonight.
Must be wrong. Alec played in the Santa Clara game. Had a pretty solid night.
Quote from: wh on December 28, 2016, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: hailcrusaders on December 22, 2016, 09:39:16 PM
I'm hearing a lot of "There goes our at-large hopes" talk. To that, I just want to point out that we had FOUR 'bad' losses last year (Ball State, Wright State x2, and Green Bay), a weaker non-conference resume, and still managed to be the last one out. If we run the table (or maybe drop one HL game) and lose in the tourney final, we'll have two or three 'bad' losses, with better non-conference wins. I'd like to think we'd still have a pretty good chance at getting in. LOTS of season left, and it will depend on other bubble teams. Is that scenario likely? No. But hope springs eternal.
According to "RPI FORECAST by FINAL RECORD" we have a ZERO chance of receiving an at-large bid. As shown below, even if we run the table for the rest of the regular season and lose in the HL tournament championship game our final RPI will be 39. By comparison, last year's final RPI was 31. If 31 wasn't good enough last year, 39 won't be either.
Record RPI Chance
27-3 32.1 0.19%
26-4 39.2 2.13%
25-5 47.7 6.20%
24-6 57.3 14.85%
23-7 68.7 20.72%
So, why a shorter leash on losses this year than last? Last year's strength of schedule was ranked much higher - both in-conference and out:
2015-16 22 OOC 127 Overall
2016-17 93 OOC 192 Overall (expected)
Simply put, after the Oregon and Kentucky losses, anything short of running the table prior to losing the HL Tournament championship game would take us out of contention for an at large bid.
Last, but not least, even if we get the automatic bid, we are probably looking at a 13-15 seed, depending on how many additional losses we pick up between now and then. Essentially, the die is already cast on the final outcome of the 2016-17 season - an opening round NCAA Tournament loss to a 2-4 seed, an auto bid into the NIT, or an invitation to some low level post season tournament. If anyone has expectations higher than this, now might be a good time to dial them back to something more realistic.
http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html
And a Happy New Year to you too!!!
Quote from: wh on December 28, 2016, 02:48:13 PMQuote from: hailcrusaders on December 22, 2016, 09:39:16 PMI'm hearing a lot of "There goes our at-large hopes" talk. To that, I just want to point out that we had FOUR 'bad' losses last year (Ball State, Wright State x2, and Green Bay), a weaker non-conference resume, and still managed to be the last one out. If we run the table (or maybe drop one HL game) and lose in the tourney final, we'll have two or three 'bad' losses, with better non-conference wins. I'd like to think we'd still have a pretty good chance at getting in. LOTS of season left, and it will depend on other bubble teams. Is that scenario likely? No. But hope springs eternal.
According to "RPI FORECAST by FINAL RECORD" we have a ZERO chance of receiving an at-large bid. As shown below, even if we run the table for the rest of the regular season and lose in the HL tournament championship game our final RPI will be 39. By comparison, last year's final RPI was 31. If 31 wasn't good enough last year, 39 won't be either. Record RPI Chance 27-3 32.1 0.19% 26-4 39.2 2.13% 25-5 47.7 6.20% 24-6 57.3 14.85% 23-7 68.7 20.72% So, why a shorter leash on losses this year than last? Last year's strength of schedule was ranked much higher - both in-conference and out: 2015-16 22 OOC 127 Overall 2016-17 93 OOC 192 Overall (expected) Simply put, after the Oregon and Kentucky losses, anything short of running the table prior to losing the HL Tournament championship game would take us out of contention for an at large bid. Last, but not least, even if we get the automatic bid, we are probably looking at a 13-15 seed, depending on how many additional losses we pick up between now and then. Essentially, the die is already cast on the final outcome of the 2016-17 season - an opening round NCAA Tournament loss to a 2-4 seed, an auto bid into the NIT, or an invitation to some low level post season tournament. If anyone has expectations higher than this, now might be a good time to dial them back to something more realistic. http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html (http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html)
I would hope that RPI isn't THE deciding factor on who gets in and who does not. Otherwise, there would be no mystery on Selection Sunday. College hockey selects at-larges through computer rankings. Basketball and FCS football use human committees. Things don't always work out they way they do on computers. Again, I doubt we'll get an at-large, but I'm either not pessimistic enough or too naive to count us out yet.
As for the anti mid-major scheduling bias, I would love to see the committee start selecting high mids over middling power 5s. I know we've all been saying this and I doubt it will happen consistently, but it would make the problem go away.
Quote from: wh on December 28, 2016, 02:48:13 PMAccording to "RPI FORECAST by FINAL RECORD" we have a ZERO chance of receiving an at-large bid. As shown below, even if we run the table for the rest of the regular season and lose in the HL tournament championship game our final RPI will be 39. By comparison, last year's final RPI was 31. If 31 wasn't good enough last year, 39 won't be either. Record RPI Chance 27-3 32.1 0.19% 26-4 39.2 2.13% 25-5 47.7 6.20% 24-6 57.3 14.85% 23-7 68.7 20.72% So, why a shorter leash on losses this year than last? Last year's strength of schedule was ranked much higher - both in-conference and out: 2015-16 22 OOC 127 Overall 2016-17 93 OOC 192 Overall (expected) Simply put, after the Oregon and Kentucky losses, anything short of running the table prior to losing the HL Tournament championship game would take us out of contention for an at large bid. Last, but not least, even if we get the automatic bid, we are probably looking at a 13-15 seed, depending on how many additional losses we pick up between now and then. Essentially, the die is already cast on the final outcome of the 2016-17 season - an opening round NCAA Tournament loss to a 2-4 seed, an auto bid into the NIT, or an invitation to some low level post season tournament. If anyone has expectations higher than this, now might be a good time to dial them back to something more realistic. http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html (http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html)
I'd add one caveat to this analysis. Our RPI on Selection Sunday last year was 49, not 31. We only got to 31 AFTER our NIT run. Just my 2 cents but if we get our RPI into the low 30s we have a great chance at an at-large. Upper 30s is dwindling, but still possible. Anything over 40 and our chances are zero. Based on the RPI Forecast WH cited, it's not impossible to get back to those levels, but certainly a very tall order.
Quote from: vu72 on December 28, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
Quote from: wh on December 28, 2016, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: hailcrusaders on December 22, 2016, 09:39:16 PM
I'm hearing a lot of "There goes our at-large hopes" talk. To that, I just want to point out that we had FOUR 'bad' losses last year (Ball State, Wright State x2, and Green Bay), a weaker non-conference resume, and still managed to be the last one out. If we run the table (or maybe drop one HL game) and lose in the tourney final, we'll have two or three 'bad' losses, with better non-conference wins. I'd like to think we'd still have a pretty good chance at getting in. LOTS of season left, and it will depend on other bubble teams. Is that scenario likely? No. But hope springs eternal.
According to "RPI FORECAST by FINAL RECORD" we have a ZERO chance of receiving an at-large bid. As shown below, even if we run the table for the rest of the regular season and lose in the HL tournament championship game our final RPI will be 39. By comparison, last year's final RPI was 31. If 31 wasn't good enough last year, 39 won't be either.
Record RPI Chance
27-3 32.1 0.19%
26-4 39.2 2.13%
25-5 47.7 6.20%
24-6 57.3 14.85%
23-7 68.7 20.72%
So, why a shorter leash on losses this year than last? Last year's strength of schedule was ranked much higher - both in-conference and out:
2015-16 22 OOC 127 Overall
2016-17 93 OOC 192 Overall (expected)
Simply put, after the Oregon and Kentucky losses, anything short of running the table prior to losing the HL Tournament championship game would take us out of contention for an at large bid.
Last, but not least, even if we get the automatic bid, we are probably looking at a 13-15 seed, depending on how many additional losses we pick up between now and then. Essentially, the die is already cast on the final outcome of the 2016-17 season - an opening round NCAA Tournament loss to a 2-4 seed, an auto bid into the NIT, or an invitation to some low level post season tournament. If anyone has expectations higher than this, now might be a good time to dial them back to something more realistic.
http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html
And a Happy New Year to you too!!!
I take no delight in delivering a dose of reality. I wish it were otherwise.
Quote from: bsmith21 on December 28, 2016, 04:26:19 PM
Tournament selection is nowhere near an exact science. I would bet that should valpo win every game but the HL finals they will get an at large. Eye test and makes for an interesting story
That's exactly what I said:
"Simply put, after the Oregon and Kentucky losses, anything short of running the table prior to losing the HL Tournament championship game would take us out of contention for an at large bid."
One more regular season loss would keep us close because of our NIT success after our NCAA omission. Think Tulsa last season. They were just out in 2015 then won a few NIT games and were included in the NCAA in 2016 when they probably should not have been. Not saying it is right but the selection committee recognizing a past mistake might slightly slant a close vote.
With 2 more regular season losses even divine intervention wouldn't sway the selection committee.
With Jubril we have almost 0% chance for an at-large. Without him why are we even talking about it?
That is not an official site
Santa Clara now sits at 9-9, 4-2 WCC, with an RPI of 187. They are 2-2 on the road by winning at San Diego which BYU failed to match.
In the next 2 weeks they will host Gonzaga, LMU, BYU and Saint Mary's. A split or better from those 4 games might raise their RPI 55 or 60 points and I am very curious on how it goes.
I hope Matt is already plotting his revenge. >:(