While we're speculating...

[vu72]

Here's another one:  Some on this board have stated that they think Brandon Wood has made a mistake in that he will only see limited time playing for MSU.  So here's my question:  My position is that any player who made the Horizon League first or second teams could start, or for the second teamers, be a considerable contributor to a Big Ten Team.  Do you agree are disagree, and specific examples of disagreement would be great!  We don't need to reflect on whether or not so and so would never see the time of day on an Ohio State team, but might at Minnesota or such analysis.  Remember, Paul Carter, who was neither a first or second team selection, played a regular contributor role at Minnesota the previous year.

To refresh your memories, here is an article that shows all the awards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Horizon_League_men%27s_basketball_season#All-Conference_Honors

[rlh]

Better yet, name me one time it has worked.....I don't know of any.....anywhere....my point is that Brandon will not be the "go to guy" at MSU, and the physicality of the Big 10 and the quickness of the guards will be an awakening for him.  He's not a point guard per se, and that's the only place he has any chance of playing in the NBA.  I just think he will not improve his standing anymore than he would have staying here and being "the man."  I hope I'm wrong, but would be shocked if I am.....

[sectionee]

I would say that most of the guys that make first or second team could've been considerable contributors to a big ten team had they began their career there.  However, I think where Brandon's troubles could come from is that he will be there for only a year.  That is not a lot of time to learn and get acclimated with your new teammates/coach's style of play.

[covufan]

Here's another one:  Some on this board have stated that they think Brandon Wood has made a mistake in that he will only see limited time playing for MSU.  So here's my question:  My position is that any player who made the Horizon League first or second teams could start, or for the second teamers, be a considerable contributor to a Big Ten Team.  Do you agree are disagree, and specific examples of disagreement would be great!  We don't need to reflect on whether or not so and so would never see the time of day on an Ohio State team, but might at Minnesota or such analysis.  Remember, Paul Carter, who was neither a first or second team selection, played a regular contributor role at Minnesota the previous year.

I would say that the HL first and second teamers MIGHT be able to contribute to a Big Ten team, depending on the year, position and team.  I would also say that most HL first and second teamers developed into those positions with needed practice and playing time - something they might not have received if they began their career at the elite Big Ten level.  For the most part, the young men playing in the HL were not offered scholarships by Big Ten Universities, even Northwestern or Penn St.  Even Butler's Hayward and Mack were not offered by any Big Ten schools.  Matt Howard was recruited by IU and Purdue, but they did not offer scholarships.  He did receive offers from West Virginia and Xavier.  Khyle Marshall did turn down Auburn, Kansas State, Houston and Miami of Florida.  

[lowposter]

There is a world of difference in being a "go to" guy at any level and 3rd, 4th, or 5th option on a higher level team.  There are role definitions in any organization, including basketball teams.  It is often tough making that adjustment from being a role player to being a main player.  No doubt it will take place for Brandon next year.   

Making the adjustment from a 2 to a 1 is also a tough challenge.  This should make him a better overall player, if he can adjust and the system will give him time to make the adjustment.  As previously stated, one year is difficult.

VU's luck with incoming transfers from higher level programs has generally been favorable.  Obviously these young men were often a key player on their high school teams and things just didnt work out at the major levels.

As stated before, while Matt Howard was not offered at Purdue, he was next in line had Scott Martin not accepted.  Purdue with Matt Howard would have been very good.   But, let's make no mistake about it, Butler was the PERFECT fit for Matt - two final fours, POY, Academic All American (probably wouldnt have gotten it at Purdue).

[BigDWSU]

Even Butler's Hayward and Mack were not offered by any Big Ten schools.  Matt Howard was recruited by IU and Purdue, but they did not offer scholarships.  He did receive offers from West Virginia and Xavier.  Khyle Marshall did turn down Auburn, Kansas State, Houston and Miami of Florida.  

Howard was offered by Indiana and Purdue
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Matt-Howard-40414

Hayward was offered by Purdue
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Gordon-Hayward-66875

[zvillehaze]

As stated before, while Matt Howard was not offered at Purdue, he was next in line had Scott Martin not accepted.  Purdue with Matt Howard would have been very good.   But, let's make no mistake about it, Butler was the PERFECT fit for Matt - two final fours, POY, Academic All American (probably wouldnt have gotten it at Purdue).

Not a big deal, but Purdue's last scholarship was offered to Howard and Martin ... Martin was the first to accept, so it was his.  I'd be interested why you think Howard wouldn't have been an Academic All American at Purdue.

[vu72]

As stated before, while Matt Howard was not offered at Purdue, he was next in line had Scott Martin not accepted.  Purdue with Matt Howard would have been very good.   But, let's make no mistake about it, Butler was the PERFECT fit for Matt - two final fours, POY, Academic All American (probably wouldnt have gotten it at Purdue).

Not a big deal, but Purdue's last scholarship was offered to Howard and Martin ... Martin was the first to accept, so it was his.  I'd be interested why you think Howard wouldn't have been an Academic All American at Purdue.

Not sure if he meant not being the POY but if he meant not being an Acadmic All american, I'd wonder why also. Butler academics would measure up just fine against anyones.

[zvillehaze]

I would say that the HL first and second teamers MIGHT be able to contribute to a Big Ten team, depending on the year, position and team.

This might be an oversimplification on my part, but given that Butler was 9-2 vs. Big Ten teams over the last five seasons (including wins over co-champs OSU and MSU in '10), I tend to believe they have a few guys capable of playing at that level.  

During that period Butler is 23-11 against BCS teams.  I just don't see the huge gap in talent you guys do.

[zvillehaze]

As stated before, while Matt Howard was not offered at Purdue, he was next in line had Scott Martin not accepted.  Purdue with Matt Howard would have been very good.   But, let's make no mistake about it, Butler was the PERFECT fit for Matt - two final fours, POY, Academic All American (probably wouldnt have gotten it at Purdue).

Not a big deal, but Purdue's last scholarship was offered to Howard and Martin ... Martin was the first to accept, so it was his.  I'd be interested why you think Howard wouldn't have been an Academic All American at Purdue.

Not sure if he meant not being the POY but if he meant not being an Acadmic All american, I'd wonder why also. Butler academics would measure up just fine against anyones.

Good point, 72.  It appears he was referring to accomplishing all of those things.

[lowposter]

Nothing against Purdue's academic standings (as compared to Butler), but simply a matter of too many smart men in the program.

I seriously doubt if there would have been 2 Academic All Americans from one university.   This is pure speculation, but had Howard been on Purdue along with Moore, Howard's role would have been quite different on the team.  He would not have had the stats that he did at Butler, nor the recognition.  His academics would NOT have paled in comparison, but I speculate that his on court stats would have been reduced.  Not only would he have not had as many offensive touches, but his rebounding would have been less (Johnson and Hummel).  Just me thinking out loud.  Nothing against his abilities as a STUDENT - ATHLETE.  E'Twann would have simply been the one "nominated" by the school.

[sectionee]

Hummel wouldn't have affected any of Howard's would be stats at Purdue, guy can't ever stay healthy.

[setshot]

A belated "best wishes" to Nep. O'Tism (aka Bryce Drew) on his appt.to head Bball coach at VU. Hopefully he will lead the drewsaders back to "the dance" in the very near future.

[valpo04]

A belated "best wishes" to Nep. O'Tism (aka Bryce Drew) on his appt.to head Bball coach at VU. Hopefully he will lead the drewsaders back to "the dance" in the very near future.

Oh how we've missed you!

[covufan]

Even Butler's Hayward and Mack were not offered by any Big Ten schools.  Matt Howard was recruited by IU and Purdue, but they did not offer scholarships.  He did receive offers from West Virginia and Xavier.  Khyle Marshall did turn down Auburn, Kansas State, Houston and Miami of Florida. 

Howard was offered by Indiana and Purdue
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Matt-Howard-40414

Hayward was offered by Purdue
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Gordon-Hayward-66875

Thanks for the correction.  I was using the Scout.com site, which did not have offers.

[Valpo89]

A belated "best wishes" to Nep. O'Tism (aka Bryce Drew) on his appt.to head Bball coach at VU. Hopefully he will lead the drewsaders back to "the dance" in the very near future.

JJ, is that you?

[covufan]

A belated "best wishes" to Nep. O'Tism (aka Bryce Drew) on his appt.to head Bball coach at VU. Hopefully he will lead the drewsaders back to "the dance" in the very near future.

Oh how we've missed you!

I take it jj (old board) is posting as setshot (what they did before the jump shot).  Welcome setshot!!