Is Butler "head and shoulders" better than Valpo?

[vu72]

Sorry, it was a joke.  I'm more than guilty of speed typing.

[valporun]

Why are we discussing this? Is there nothing else important to talk about? I don't have a real comment or concern about if Butler is head and shoulders above Valpo right now, or if we're just dandruff on their path to the NCAA Tourney. Seriously, we have recruiting concerns that worse than finding that one big that will help us dominate Butler for four years, but find a big that can help us move up the HL standings to compete for the regular season championship and get that shot at the NCAA auto-bid. Valpo basketball needs to find those players that can help make Butler a speed bump on the path to the NCAA Tourney, not just a speaking point on the message board of how much better they are than us right now.

[milanmiracle]

Sorry, it was a joke.  I'm more than guilty of speed typing.

I am guilty of that as well. Sorry my joke meter is broken today.

[crusaderboy]

please.

stream of consciousness vs. formal journalistic principles

does it bother you to know i speak grammatically incorrect all the time?

[justducky]

Let me refer you all back to the poll question " yes or no Butler is significantly better than Valpo?" Since significant is a definable word, maybe 90% or better have responded yes. The term "head and shoulders better" is different; it is a concept. Until we can define the concept, we can not address the issue. And so we babble on and on and on and on....

[cmack]

Semantics is not really a problem for me.  Use whatever word, analogy, concept, lingo, etc, that you want.   Butler is _____er than Valpo.  I am not trashing Valpo when I say that.  I am giving Butler their due credit.  They have done so much in the conference, in the tournament, in the non-conference, and yes even head-to-head.  They are that good of a program.

[Valpo89]

Anyone who answers "No" should have their head and shoulders examined.

[milanmiracle]

Butler just made the Elite 8 for the second year in a row...I think that about sums up the differences. Can somebody lock this thread so we can stop embarrassing ourselves with this debate.

[valpo84]

And if the Committee pulled its head out of an RPI rankings sheet and looked at whom teams beat and where, the BIGLEAST would get a few less bids for mediocre teams and the mid-majors a few more for Championship teams. Valpo beat an Elite Eight team shows how close we are, not the other way around about how far ahead the other team is.

[dcvalpo]

And if the Committee pulled its head out of an RPI rankings sheet and looked at whom teams beat and where, the BIGLEAST would get a few less bids for mediocre teams and the mid-majors a few more for Championship teams. Valpo beat an Elite Eight team shows how close we are, not the other way around about how far ahead the other team is.

I was really proud of our win.  Yet, I know that Howard Little hit two crazy threes he normally would never hit and we still had to scrape by in overtime.  The first time we played, it was more or less a shellacking by the Bulldogs.  I just can't point to one win (when considering the larger body of work) and say that says a lot about us.

Guys, Youngstown State also beat Butler.  Are we ready to talk about how close they are to Butler's level?  Truth is, Butler was in their roughest 5 game stretch in years and we happened to pick up a win during that time.  Let's not make it more than what it was.

[vu72]

And when we beat them again next year it will be more luck.

[milanmiracle]

Even if Valpo goes 2-0 next year, Butler's still better. Please look outside the two game bubble. Butler is built to beat everybody, not just win Horizon League conference games. They've defeated Pitt, Wisconsin, Florida State, Michigan State, Washington State, Stanford, Northwestern, Ohio State, Syracuse, and Kansas State in the last two years. And Valpo vs.  BCS schools during that time? (crickets...)

Now, the current team. Has anybody else noticed that 6-7 Khyle Marshall is doing a really nice job when either Howard or Smith is out of the game? Sure is nice when you can rotate 6-7, 6-8, and 6-10 in your lineup and have an NBA quality guard (VU has that in Wood too) to go with it.

[dcvalpo]

And when we beat them again next year it will be more luck.

I really want you to be right in this conversation, believe me.  I hope we at some point can match Butler or overtake them.  We're not just that close to it right now.

[zvillehaze]

Not sure why this thread exists.  Valpo and Butler split their two games, making it impossible to distinguish between the two programs.  Let's call it a draw and move on.

[dcvalpo]

Not sure why this thread exists.  Valpo and Butler split their two games, making it impossible to distinguish between the two programs.  Let's call it a draw and move on.

Sarcasm?

[cmack]

I have an idea for the board admininstrators.  As part of the process to register for an account, ask the question, "Is Butler "head and shoulders" better than Valpo?  Each person who says NO can be denied an account.  It will certainly raise the level of discussion on the board.  How bout it?

[rlh]

Now this is getting to the point of total ridiculousness....c'mon guys.....

[vuweathernerd]

I have an idea for the board admininstrators.  As part of the process to register for an account, ask the question, "Is Butler "head and shoulders" better than Valpo?  Each person who says NO can be denied an account.  It will certainly raise the level of discussion on the board.  How bout it?

everybody's entitled to their opinion. obviously yours is that freedom of speech is worthless... maybe the question that should be asked is 'how do you feel about freedom of speech?' 

[cmack]

I was just joking.  I have never been much of an emoticoner. Although I will start adopting them for when I am being facetious. 

[StlVUFan]

I was just joking.  I have never been much of an emoticoner. Although I will start adopting them for when I am being facetious. 

Who really knows anymore, but it was pretty obvious to me, cmack, for what it's worth.

My tendency is to take posts like this (literally overflowing with hyperbole) as some form of satire, figuring if the person was serious, then they're not worth anything but the back of me.  So, by default, it all works for me

[valpo84]

Remember cmack "(SI)" or if you are going to be full throttle facetious "(FI)". (SI)

[vu72]

And when we beat them again next year it will be more luck.

I really want you to be right in this conversation, believe me.  I hope we at some point can match Butler or overtake them.  We're not just that close to it right now.

I'll give this just one more try and then I'll leave you knuckleheads alone to bash Valpo all you want.  Let me say it s-l-o-w-l-y.  Butler is better than Valpo.  They have been historically much better.  I define a team that is "head and shoulders" better as a team that we can't compete with or belong on the same court with and that just isn't the situation between Butler and Valpo.

I have submitted all the facts I can to show you all that we have been  very close to beating Butler and actually did this past year.  All I get in return is more baloney about even if we beat them twice next year that Butler is still better.

I'm done and may be done posting all together.  Why don't you "Butler is "head and shoulders" better than Valpo guys join the other guys on the Butler board?  We, in the reality zone will be fine here looking forward to more success and not holding Butler's past and current success over the heads of a team on the rise.  I hope Butler wins it all.  That has nothing to do with how we will matchup with them next year or how we matched up against them last year.

You won't see me post on this thread again.

[valpo04]

And when we beat them again next year it will be more luck.

I really want you to be right in this conversation, believe me.  I hope we at some point can match Butler or overtake them.  We're not just that close to it right now.

I'll give this just one more try and then I'll leave you knuckleheads alone to bash Valpo all you want.  Let me say it s-l-o-w-l-y.  Butler is better than Valpo.  They have been historically much better.  I define a team that is "head and shoulders" better as a team that we can't compete with or belong on the same court with and that just isn't the situation between Butler and Valpo.

I'm done and may be done posting all together.  Why don't you "Butler is "head and shoulders" better than Valpo guys join the other guys on the Butler board?  We, in the reality zone will be fine here looking forward to more success and not holding Butler's past and current success over the heads of a team on the rise.  I hope Butler wins it all.  That has nothing to do with how we will matchup with them next year or how we matched up against them last year.

You won't see me post on this thread again.

So, since your definition of "head and shoulders better" leads you to feel Butler isn't head and shoulders better than Valpo, but others think they are, its "Valpo bashing?"

...and you may be done posting all together because someone feels Valpo isn't as good as Butler and by their view its not close? 

Come on man!  Relax!

[milanmiracle]

And when we beat them again next year it will be more luck.

.

I'll give this just one more try and then I'll leave you knuckleheads alone to bash Valpo all you want.  Let me say it s-l-o-w-l-y.  Butler is better than Valpo.  They have been historically much better.  I define a team that is "head and shoulders" better as a team that we can't compete with or belong on the same court with and that just isn't the situation between Butler and Valpo.

I have submitted all the facts I can to show you all that we have been  very close to beating Butler and actually did this past year.  All I get in return is more baloney about even if we beat them twice next year that Butler is still better.

I'm done and may be done posting all together.  Why don't you "Butler is "head and shoulders" better than Valpo guys join the other guys on the Butler board?  We, in the reality zone will be fine here looking forward to more success and not holding Butler's past and current success over the heads of a team on the rise.  I hope Butler wins it all.  That has nothing to do with how we will matchup with them next year or how we matched up against them last year.

You won't see me post on this thread again.

And when we beat them again next year it will be more luck.

I really want you to be right in this conversation, believe me.  I hope we at some point can match Butler or overtake them.  We're not just that close to it right now.

I'll give this just one more try and then I'll leave you knuckleheads alone to bash Valpo all you want.  Let me say it s-l-o-w-l-y.  Butler is better than Valpo.  They have been historically much better.  I define a team that is "head and shoulders" better as a team that we can't compete with or belong on the same court with and that just isn't the situation between Butler and Valpo.

I have submitted all the facts I can to show you all that we have been  very close to beating Butler and actually did this past year.  All I get in return is more baloney about even if we beat them twice next year that Butler is still better.

I'm done and may be done posting all together.  Why don't you "Butler is "head and shoulders" better than Valpo guys join the other guys on the Butler board?  We, in the reality zone will be fine here looking forward to more success and not holding Butler's past and current success over the heads of a team on the rise.  I hope Butler wins it all.  That has nothing to do with how we will matchup with them next year or how we matched up against them last year.

You won't see me post on this thread again.

Really? We don't agree with you and you're done posting? I guess that's your choice.

Here's a good way to judge where Valpo is in comparison to Butler. If you asked 10 BCS D1 coaches who they'd rather play in a must win game (not a payout game), I wonder how many would choose to play Butler over Valpo. My guess? None. Of course some of that depends on matchups, to be sure, but in the end I think if we could ask neutral opponents who's a better team and who they'd rather play when they HAVE to win it would be Butler in a landslide. That's how I choose to judge. Also, Butler has a 87.5% winning percentage (IF I did the math correctly) against Valpo since joining the Horizon League. Nobody can debate the games were close, but in the end the "W" matters. A 12.5% winning percentage against an opponent is not close.

Also, just because I think Butler is better, doesn't mean I am trashing Valpo. They've been much improved this year and are at least heading in the right direction now

[StlVUFan]

but in the end I think if we could ask neutral opponents who's a better team and who they'd rather play when they HAVE to win it would be Butler in a landslide.

I think you mean "but in the end I think if we could ask neutral opponents who's a better team, it would be Butler in a landslide, and if we could ask them who they'd rather play when they HAVE to win it would be Valpo in a landslide."

Also, Butler has a 12.5% winning percentage (IF I did the math correctly) against Valpo since joining the Horizon League. Nobody can debate the games were close, but in the end the "W" matters. A 12.5% winning percentage against an opponent is not close.

Here, I think you meant 87.5% winning percentage.

Your welcome.

Sincerely,
Your friendly neighborhood editor.