Jay Harris transferring from Valparaiso

[valporun]

valpopal hit it right on the head, though didn't spell it out as obviously, but a lot of the freshmen were starters and stars on their high school and AAU teams, and expect to have that same result at the D-I they are at. Unfortunately, too many of them come in underdeveloped in the body structure or basketball acumen they should have for the D-I NCAA game. They are also too impressionable based on everything their "posse" and AAU coaches build them up to be. I tend to see some of that build up here for some recruits, when I see "jump out of the gym", "shoots lights out", but yet all of this is based on the "counting" stats of points and rebounds, but we never really see the "intangibles" that go with defensive speed, playing the ball, having that "thinking a play ahead" to consider where the ball is going, so you can get in the path to either deflect or steal the ball. Too often, we worry about height and scoring, and the counting stats are the things that build up a player's bad habits because they want to be the highlight, instead of create a team win with helping the rest of the team be in the game as well.

[valpopal]

While we're speaking about transfers and people looking for changes of scenery, here is an interesting and refreshing article about some coaches, including Bryce Drew and Brad Stevens, who recently chose not to make moves to BCS schools with more prestige and larger salaries:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7853594/coaches-mid-major-programs-spurning-lucrative-opportunities-stay-put-men-college-basketball

[covufan]

If 40% of D1 basketball players transfer before the end of their sophomore year....then something is wrong with the system. 

Not really. All players who are recruited at D1 schools were most likely starters, if not stars, on their high school teams and conferences, some were all-state. When they get to college, they all hope to be starters there as well. However, many do not become starters and realize by their sophomore year they might not start the next two years either. Some even find their game minutes as bench players are somewhat limited since most teams have 8-man rotations at best.

Add to that the off-court discoveries at a college during one's first couple of years--which could include difficulties in the classroom or in community circles or merely dealing with the climate, geography, social life (or lack of) and homesickness in some cases--as well as the fact that we're talking about 20-year-old kids who might be impatient or curious about other places.

Moreover, there is some excitement and ego boosting about going through the transfer process, being courted by other schools and wanted all over again. These kids even see this in the NBA stars, their role models, who regularly explore free agency or demand trades. You can even add some college coaches who look to get out of contracts with their schools to go elsewhere.

Given all that, I would expect a fair number of disappointments and changed minds leading to curiosity and seeking something new, especially in an electronic age which daily includes so many quick shifts and searches for immediate gratification. Consequently, I am not surprised at all by the transfer rate.

I don't think anything is wrong with the system.  I think others on this board have also mentioned the AAU role in transfers and selfish play as a whole in NCAA basketball.  I'm not an expert on AAU ball, but from what I've heard, AAU ball emphasizes one-on-one play and scoring, vice team play and defense.  The AAU coach is continually selling something, instead of teaching the game.  As long as someone is in the kids ears with statements of "you can transfer", "you could do better in a different system", etc., all schools will have problems with transfers. 

[lowposter]

The really successful AAU programs' play mirrors successful high school or college programs.  Very unselfish play with an emphasis on disciplined offensive sets.  The defense is a little lax, but normally every shot is challenged, every possession is challenged. 

If you have the opportunity, go watch the truly great AAU programs play, such as an Eric Gordon U17.  Interchangeable parts, great ball movement, and they play well together.  College coaches come to watch how players fit into a system, as much as their individual talents.  Are they coachable?  Do they find the open man?  Can they defend?  What is their oncourt demeanor?  And obviously...do they have skills.

Yes, there are flaws to the system, but the AAU system has developed due to deficiencies in the HS game.

Now, with all that said...yes, there is often too much advise given (and received) in that network.  Often, players end up at D1 schools, simply because they believe they are a D1 talent and do not weight the opportunities that are available at other colleges and universities.

So, my original point about the system's problems (based on 40% transfer rule), is that the players and the colleges are not making good choices early on.  It is easy to do.

lowposter

[justducky]

Witness Cory Johnson, Brandon Wood, Bobby Capobianco and the new guards.  Valpo95 hit it on the head.  The talent level has gotten so much better that the regular rotation is constantly in flux or simply improving.  Next year's team will open a lot of eyes.  It will be a fun year to be a Crusader fan.   

I am still hoping that you are right but the Edwards departure left me concerned and now the Harris departure leaves me even more uncertain about how well we can spring out the starting gate next year. If we are to have a solid shot at an ncaa at-large bid (our current expectation) then we need to bag some big wins early and avoid the embarassing loses.

Worst case, Dority can not play till second semester and Kurth recovers either very slowly or not at all. With the 25.6 minutes that Jay played (mostly at the 2) now gone and with none of the trio of Boggs, Bogan, and Kenney being ideal 2's for what we hope to be a season long top 55 team then we might be expecting more from an untested Jordan Coleman than he is capable of delivering. Now I realize that Broekhoff should slide over to the 3 and pick up at least some of Jays vacated guard minutes but I am now concerned that the 2 spot might at least in the early going be our biggest obstacle.

[FWalum]

I also find it unfortunate that we are having so many transfers.  At least we are not hearing anything akin to the Wisconsin and other school scandals concerning transfer restrictions.  In regards to Jay Harris, I asked earlier this year in another thread...

Jay Harris was one of the highest rated recruits VU has had in recent years, he will be a junior next year, does the coaching staff effectively challenge him to get stronger and improve defensively so we can finally get him on the floor in a starting spot?

In my opinion this was one of the biggest question marks coming into next year, one that Jay has now answered for us by taking his many talents elsewhere.

Best wishes Jay.

just ducky now brings up a very legitimate point about early season team chemistry.

Witness Cory Johnson, Brandon Wood, Bobby Capobianco and the new guards.  Valpo95 hit it on the head.  The talent level has gotten so much better that the regular rotation is constantly in flux or simply improving.  Next year's team will open a lot of eyes.  It will be a fun year to be a Crusader fan.   

I am still hoping that you are right but the Edwards departure left me concerned and now the Harris departure leaves me even more uncertain about how well we can spring out the starting gate next year. If we are to have a solid shot at an ncaa at-large bid (our current expectation) then we need to bag some big wins early and avoid the embarassing loses.

Worst case, Dority can not play till second semester and Kurth recovers either very slowly or not at all. With the 25.6 minutes that Jay played (mostly at the 2) now gone and with none of the trio of Boggs, Bogan, and Kenney being ideal 2's for what we hope to be a season long top 55 team then we might be expecting more from an untested Jordan Coleman than he is capable of delivering. Now I realize that Broekhoff should slide over to the 3 and pick up at least some of Jays vacated guard minutes but I am now concerned that the 2 spot might at least in the early going be our biggest obstacle.

This could very well be a problem in the early season, traditionally the time when we would be playing the higher rated out of conference opponents.  Let's hope that Bryce can pull the team together early despite the fact that we well might be without the first semester services of Dority.

[vu72]

Good points all.  The Dority question is a concern and my guess is the backup point will be Bogan.  If Boggs is an example, it will take some time for Dority to get started once eligible.  On the other hand the addition of Capo should increase our scoring chances via increased rebounding.  The wild card may be Bobby's and Vashil's scoring ability and how that translates into less pressure on Rowdy and others.  Jay was a wild card at best.  Scoring was a crap shoot and his defense was just OK.  Dority and Coleman should be a clear step up and in particular Coleman as he is 6'4" and Jay was maybe 6'1" but a very skinny 6'1".  We'll see...

[wh]

Our returning players have all shown steady improvement since they have been at Valpo.  There is every reason to think they will be better yet next year.  That includes Kevin and Ryan, both of whom are constantly working on their game.  I would also expect more consistent outside shooting from Boggs, Bogan and Kinney.  THEN - blend the talents and abilities of Dority, Capo and Coleman to the mix along with our overall experience level, and we should be a very difficult team for anyone to beat - in conference or out. 

[mp91]

Jay will be missed for all the little things he brought to the table. He was a great ballhandler and underrated passer (occasionally turnover prone... but still extremely effective). More importantly, Jay lived for big games, always performing well in the spotlight. He was perhaps our most clutch player besides Ryan.

I think most of the people on this message board truly underrated his importance to the team, and his presence will not be easily replaced. Most importantly,jay is a great guy and was one of the most personable, friendly players on the team. He will be a great addition to his next team.

[valpopal]

Jay will be missed for all the little things he brought to the table. He was a great ballhandler and underrated passer (occasionally turnover prone... but still extremely effective). More importantly, Jay lived for big games, always performing well in the spotlight. He was perhaps our most clutch player besides Ryan.

I think most of the people on this message board truly underrated his importance to the team, and his presence will not be easily replaced. Most importantly,jay is a great guy and was one of the most personable, friendly players on the team. He will be a great addition to his next team.

In the final minutes of a close game, there was nobody else I would rather have shooting the free throws. The first tight game that comes down to free throws, we will all be wishing Jay was on the court.

[wh]

For me personally it's not about underrating Jay's contributions to the team.  He chose to take his services elsewhere and that's fine.  I wish him luck.  Beyond that I'm more interested in talking about how we can pick up the pieces and continue to move forward in a positive direction.   

[vu72]

Jay will be missed for all the little things he brought to the table. He was a great ballhandler and underrated passer (occasionally turnover prone... but still extremely effective). More importantly, Jay lived for big games, always performing well in the spotlight. He was perhaps our most clutch player besides Ryan.

I think most of the people on this message board truly underrated his importance to the team, and his presence will not be easily replaced. Most importantly,jay is a great guy and was one of the most personable, friendly players on the team. He will be a great addition to his next team.

I'm sure Jay is a great guy and anytime you lose a player with this much experience with the same guys it can hurt.  But, (sorry, I couldn't resist) let's take a look at the "big" games and Jay's performance.  Now, we much somehow define "big".  Presumably you mean the Arizona or Ohio State games, but you also have to include the Butler games, the Loyola game to clinch the title and the Detroit championship game, right?

No doubt Jay really stepped up at OSU going 7 for 14 overall, 4 of 9 from the 3 for 18 points in 30 minutes.  But what about the other "big" games? Not so good. In the Detroit game he was 1 of 5, 0 for 4 for 4 pts in 19 minutes.  At CSU in a big showdown late in the season he was 0 for 1 for 0 pts in 26 minutes.

Overall Jay played the 5th most minutes on the team but averaged only 7.3 pts per game while shooting 40.3% and 29.2 from the 3.  Richie Edwards averaged more points in only 17 minutes.  Different roles, I know.  Still, how many times did we see Jay just heave one from well beyond the NBA line with limited results. I remember some "NO NO NO YES"  moments, but more "NO NO NO NO" moments.

There is no doubt about his clutch free throw shooting, that is always important.  Both Dority and Coleman are very good free throw shooters and Ben Boggs actually had a better overall percentage.

Again, no intended knock against Jay, just sayin the facts actually show that he wasn't necessarily a big game player.  I'm comfortable that Coleman and Dority will be more than adequate replacements.

[tommydee46]

Being a former coach of more than 30 years....I will say there is probably more information than we can ascertain regarding Jay.
But bringing in more athletic guards probably made him realize his playing minutes were going to be limited.  He disappeared
for two years in a row when it came to post season play....could it be attitude...work ethics...bending rules...or nothing at all.  Only his teammates
and coaching staff knows.  The truth will only come to fruition if one of his former teammates would bring it too light. 
Good luck Jay.

[32]

Two points...

1 - I think this was obvious when he did not travel to the NIT game against Miami (FL).  Of course no information was given as to why he did not travel to that game. 
2 - Whenever VU gets a public school person near Chicago I always expect him to transfer before he graduates.  So I did not expect Jay to stay (rhyme).

[vu72]

Two points...

1 - I think this was obvious when he did not travel to the NIT game against Miami (FL).  Of course no information was given as to why he did not travel to that game. 
2 - Whenever VU gets a public school person near Chicago I always expect him to transfer before he graduates.  So I did not expect Jay to stay (rhyme).

I'm pretty sure Jay was sicker thn a dog--hospitalized etc.  Pretty good excuse for not playing.

[StlVUFan]

Two points...

1 - I think this was obvious when he did not travel to the NIT game against Miami (FL).  Of course no information was given as to why he did not travel to that game. 
2 - Whenever VU gets a public school person near Chicago I always expect him to transfer before he graduates.  So I did not expect Jay to stay (rhyme).

I'm pretty sure Jay was sicker thn a dog--hospitalized etc.  Pretty good excuse for not playing.

I'll take Uninformed Conclusions for $1000, Alex. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I'll take Uninformed Conclusions for $1000, Alex

Not to pile on, but if that were the case, we return to my earlier point:  why not announce as soon as possible after the end of the season then, a la Vucic & Edwards?  If he wanted out then, he would have said so, so as to have more options.

As it is, I think he must have seen the writing on the wall with the arrival of a 1/2 and a 2/3--which must have pushed him over the edge he might have been getting to slowly anyway.

[sectionee]

Jay was sick and did not travel, Matt was sick went with the team and did not play, even Ryan was just getting over being quite ill if I remember right.   

Is it a little odd that he waited so long, but lets say good luck and move on.  I'm sure if we need a Jay Harris moment next year we can convince one of the new guys to throw up up a contested 25 footer with 29 seconds left on the shot clock.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I'm sure if we need a Jay Harris moment next year we can convince one of the new guys to throw up up a contested 25 footer with 29 seconds left on the shot clock.

*dying laughing...but a slightly bitter kind of laughter

[crusaderboy]

Jay was sick and did not travel, Matt was sick went with the team and did not play, even Ryan was just getting over being quite ill if I remember right.   

This. It spoke volumes.

[lowposter]

Are we sure Jay was ill?  I could have sworn it was something else.

lowposter

[wh]

• Valparaiso played with a season-low six players in a 66-50 loss to Miami (Fla.) in the first-round of the NIT on March 14. The Crusaders were without key reserves Jay Harris and Matt Kenney, as both guards were out after spending part of the week in the hospital. Ryan Broekhoff was fresh out of the hospital himself, and the Horizon League Player of the Year had 18 points and seven rebounds in the loss to the Hurricanes.

[vu72]

Are we sure Jay was ill?  I could have sworn it was something else.

lowposter

You may be remembering that he was excused from an early game to attend a family wedding as I recall.

[wh]

Made Even Shorter: Valpo's win over Georgia Southern on Friday was even more impressive considering the Crusaders traveled just eight scholarship players and nine players in all.  Sophomore Jay Harris was excused from the trip to attend his sister's wedding.  Of the eight scholarship players, seven played at least 20 minutes, with three starters logging at least 34 minutes apiece.

[EddieCabot]

Our returning players have all shown steady improvement since they have been at Valpo.  There is every reason to think they will be better yet next year.  That includes Kevin and Ryan, both of whom are constantly working on their game.  I would also expect more consistent outside shooting from Boggs, Bogan and Kinney.  THEN - blend the talents and abilities of Dority, Capo and Coleman to the mix along with our overall experience level, and we should be a very difficult team for anyone to beat - in conference or out.

Whether or not you like the "churn and burn" recruiting approach employed by Valpo, it's hard to argue with the results.  Next year's roster will included guys with experience in the Big Ten, the SEC, the ACC, the Big East and Conference USA ... that's hard for any mid-major to compete with. 

If you visit the Butler board, you'll see a lot of fans upset because Stevens seems so committed to kids that he won't get rid of 2 or 3 each year to make room for higher profile recruits/transfers.  There's definitely a difference in approach ... Butler's recruiting "mistakes" are around for 4 years, while Valpo's quietly disappear to make room for the next wave of guys.  As a result, Valpo has more freedom to take a few chances in recruiting, knowing they aren't making a 4 year commitment.

I agree with wh and vu72 that Bryce has really outdone himself this year.  Adding Dority and Coleman is a huge upgrade over Harris and anyone who's seen Capobianco knows he's way better than Edwards was.  Barring major injuries, this team appears poised to do some damage in the NCAA tourney.