MVC Hoops: 2018-19

[EddieCabot]

It's a lot of what ifs but I would darn sure take Evelyn\Stull\Burton\Fazekas\Smits\Golder\McMillan\Freeman-Liberty\Sorolla\Bradford\Sackey against anybody in this conference. That looks pretty safely a top 3-4 team in the MVC if not more.

Even without Stull, that could be the deepest and most talented group Valpo has seen for a while.  Also, Oren hinted that more recruiting news could be coming soon!

[bbtds]

Also, Oren hinted that more recruiting news could be coming soon!

[EddieCabot]

According to a twitter post I saw Stull is also considering Butler and Xavier. Is that still true? Also it appears that he is seeking a significant role and a chance to make the tournament. Can we provide both? It's hard to say but if Burton comes back and keeps his eligibility we might be close enough to entice Stull. We certainly have the role to offer.

Stull should go to MN and see what it's like to compete in the B1G.  Would love to have him play at Valpo, but I say go for it and push yourself.

At this point a pro career in North America does not exist so what does he have to lose?

Sorry to rain on your parade but we enter this season middle of the MVC.  Even if we get lucky and Burton is eligible Top 3 is a stretch goal.

Alec Peters was was in a similar situation 2 years ago when he was considering whether to stay at Valpo or move up. The difference is Alec knew he could start for almost any program he chose. Even then, he decided to stay, had an outstanding senior season, and got drafted in the 2nd round. A great Cinderella story.

Stull is no Alec, or anywhere close. In fact, Tevonn Walker had better numbers than Stull in a much tougher league, and is a far better defender. Is anyone under the illusion that Tevonn would be better off "moving up" if he were in Stull's shoes? 

Stull is being way over hyped. He needs to join the Crusaders and set his sights on helping to return a highly respected mid major to glory by winning a championship in a highly respected league. If he truly has NBA potential, NBA scouts from all over the league will show up at the ARC in droves, just like they did 2 years ago.

I agree with your points, but Stull picking Minny tells me that he didn't see a guaranteed role at Valpo.  The downside of having 10 talented underclassmen on your roster is that recruits seeking immediate playing time might be scared away.  This is when you search for diamonds in the rough (like Vashil) who can develop into great players over a few years.

[VULB#62]

Captain Obvious here.

Yes, good players are crucial, but regardless of who we have on the roster on November 1 (which might be where we are right now with no new xfer adds), our team has to come out of the chute as a legit MVC team in all respects. We did not do that in 17-18 in our first year.  We were a very good HL team, retained a HL attitude going into the conference season and played like a HL team well into the conference season. Then some light bulbs turned on and, IMO, we got it. We finally began to understand the difference and started to play accordingly.

In 18-19, whoever is on the roster has got to START the MVC part of the schedule the way we finished 17-18 and then grow in those 18 games to be the team everybody expected us to be when they invited us.  That puts a lot of pressure on the coaches and players to up their game.

It took Loyola 5 years to get there. Can we get there in 2 or 3?

[VU2014]

I don't think last year's team played with a HL attitude. I think that team play like a brand new/inexperienced team that lost it's most talented scorer before conference play and Tevonn was dealing mono last season. Last year was frustrating for multiple reasons but those guys played hard pretty much all season long.

The 15-16 and 16-17 team wouldn't have problems competing in the MVC. I'm sure the juniors will take another step next season and we'll see how Mileek is progressing. The team (knock on wood) should be more competitive and should make fewer rookie mistakes.

I'm really looking for the team to be more efficient and make fewer mental mistakes. A lot of that comes with experience.

[VULB#62]

We were a very good HL team, retained a HL attitude going into the conference season and played like a HL team well into the conference season. Then some light bulbs turned on and, IMO, we got it. We finally began to understand the difference and started to play accordingly.

It took Loyola 5 years to get there. Can we get there in 2 or 3?

I'm sure the juniors will take another step next season and we'll see how Mileek is progressing. The team (knock on wood) should be more competitive and should make fewer rookie mistakes.

I'm really looking for the team to be more efficient and make fewer mental mistakes. A lot of that comes with experience.

I look at 17-18 as three seasons in one with two different Valpo teams taking the court.  Season One was the OOC portion and was played with Team #1 that had Joe and a healthy Tevonn.  It was impressive but this season was over before we started Season Two.  Water under the bridge.

A new Season Two, a new Team #2 (we lost Joe for the entire MVC conference schedule and Tevonn needed to recuperate from mono).  Team #2 was Valpo's only entry in the MVC portion of the schedule.  By characterizing this team as playing with the same approach that we had in competing in the HL, I meant this group was just not prepared to compete at the MVC level.  Even Matt stated as much.  BTW, other Valpo coaches have said the same thing -- "whoa, this is gonna be tougher than we thought"  --- because our only frame of reference was years in the HL.

Season Three (~last third of the MVC schedule), still the same Team #2: The very same kids were on the floor as in season two, but at one point they collectively "got it" and the season transitioned into Season Three where they played up to the conference competition (competition which, BTW, was also gaining incremental experience in parallel with Valpo).  It is all relative.  Yet, we closed the competitive gap in Season Three (again with the same kids we had in the first 2/3s of the MVC schedule.). So your "A lot of that comes with experience" statement is valid, but only to an extent, and I would argue that Valpo showed greater improvement relative to the whole conferrence.  My point, as Captain Obvious, was that Valpo needs to pick up where they left off.  We cannot afford to slip back even a bit. That is why I posed the question about comparing, over time, our future growth to that of Loyola's past 5 years.  I am optimistic that our progress will be faster.

[VUGrad1314]

Zane Martin is transferring from Towson  Averaged almost 20 ppg last year. Only reason I am mentioning him in this thread is because Loyola has registered interest in bringing him aboard. Despite their tremendous run this past year I don't see them landing him in the face of such intense competition from P5 schools. He also took a staggering 38% of Towson's shots last year which makes me question his efficiency as well as his fit in any offense that stresses a balanced attack such as Loyola's. That said it's always important to grab talent wherever and whenever possible so that could be a reason for the Ramblers' interest.

[may know]

Loyola has yet to feel a F4 boost to their recruiting. Valpo's actually ahead of them in average stars (for whatever that's worth).

You'd think a grad transfer would see the appeal in being Clayton Custer's running mate.

[VU2014]

Since we already added Eron Gordon I'm not sure adding another red-shirt guard is in the cards for us.

You'd think a grad transfer would see the appeal in being Clayton Custer's running mate.

Custer will be graduated by the time he gets on the court.

[IrishDawg]

Zane Martin is transferring from Towson  Averaged almost 20 ppg last year. Only reason I am mentioning him in this thread is because Loyola has registered interest in bringing him aboard. Despite their tremendous run this past year I don't see them landing him in the face of such intense competition from P5 schools. He also took a staggering 38% of Towson's shots last year which makes me question his efficiency as well as his fit in any offense that stresses a balanced attack such as Loyola's. That said it's always important to grab talent wherever and whenever possible so that could be a reason for the Ramblers' interest.

Based on the other schools with interest, at least if it's serious (Louisville, Gonzaga, Cincinnati, Texas Tech, Auburn, Maryland, Kansas State), I'd be shocked if Loyola wound up getting him.  This kid's an absolute stud considering he took nearly 27% Towson's total field goal attempts as a team last year, and had an efficiency rating of 109.4.  He was also the team's best passer and had a solid defensive rebounding rate for his size, which for a guard is great (6'4, 205 lbs).  This is the kind of player that P5 programs leave an open scholarship for.

[VUGrad1314]

Recruiting stars mean nothing really. See: Harris, Jay and Hazen, Parker Also I believe we were #1 last year in the MVC and we all know how last year turned out. I do find it a bit curious especially with middle and long term options beginning to dwindle that Loyola isn't going after players like Wiley and Jaylin Patterson who are immediately eligible and would likely boost their immediate competitiveness and allow them to build on last year's momentum and their window with Custer. They can always find a replacement in the 2019 class especially if they load up and make another deep run.

As for Martin I don't think he'd be coming our way regardless of Gordon's presence with all the P5 interest he is generating. He looks like a guy who is a near certainty to transfer up either to a P5 school or a top contender in a midmajor conference. That's not us yet I don't think. It should be us next year but it is not us this year. That's why I'm cool with loading up on transfers and giving 2019-2020 and perhaps 2020-2021 as well everything we have.

[bbtds]

Loyola has yet to feel a F4 boost to their recruiting. Valpo's actually ahead of them in average stars (for whatever that's worth).

You'd think a grad transfer would see the appeal in being Clayton Custer's running mate.

Yet being involved in Custer's last stand has never been that beneficial in the past.

[bbtds]

That's why I'm cool with loading up on transfers and giving 2019-2020 and perhaps 2020-2021 as well everything we have.

The Vegas Golden Knights and Chicago Fire would be disappointed in that philosophy.

[FieldGoodie05]

Was pretty interesting to see the similarities between Hammink (senior year) and Golder (sophomore year).  Hammink did play 3 more games in that year than Markus played this year.  Personally, I think Hammink is a poor mans Golder!!! haha TBD really.  Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Golder play more PF because of our relative youth at that position (when compared to Shane playing more on ball or SG)?

Blk
Hammink (10)
Golder (16)

Assists
Hammink 61 (but 70 turns)
Golder 51 (but 50 turns)

MPG
Hammink (22.1)
Golder (22.6)

FGA
Hammink (224)
Golder (221)

FG%
Hammink (.500)
Golder (.493)

3-pt %
Hammink (.306)
Golder (.429)

FT%
Hammink (.786)
Golder (.831)

RPG
Hammink 3.1 rbg
Golder 4.3 rbg

Turn Overs
Hammink 70 or 2/game
Golder 50 or 1.56/game

Steals
Hammink 26
Golder 26

PPG
Hammink 8.9 ppg
Golder 9.5 ppg

[VULB#62]

Eye opening. Nice work.

[ml2]

When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.

[FieldGoodie05]

When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.

Solid point.  I think Golder is a better defender as well.  Both players had chips on their shoulders, which serve them well if under control.

I like Golders upside for Valpo.  He's as good or better of a "get" than any transfer I can remember in my 20-years as a fan. 

Any competition outside of Shane?

[FieldGoodie05]

When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.

Solid point.  I think Golder is a better defender as well.  Both players had chips on their shoulders, which serve them well if under control.

I like Golders upside for Valpo.  He's as good or better of a "get" than any transfer I can remember in my 20-years as a fan. 

Any competition outside of Shane?

Keith Carter?

[EddieCabot]

Was pretty interesting to see the similarities between Hammink (senior year) and Golder (sophomore year). 

When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.

Small matter, but the numbers for Hammink appear to be from 15-16, Shane's junior year.   However, that doesn't change the fact that Golder's future is bright.

[VUGrad1314]

Cory Johnson? I think Brandon Wood was a transfer as well?

[FieldGoodie05]

Was pretty interesting to see the similarities between Hammink (senior year) and Golder (sophomore year). 

When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.

Small matter, but the numbers for Hammink appear to be from 15-16, Shane's junior year.   However, that doesn't change the fact that Golder's future is bright.

Typo on my part, I meant (junior) to illustrate both first years in the program.

[EddieCabot]

Was pretty interesting to see the similarities between Hammink (senior year) and Golder (sophomore year). 

When comparing Hammink and Golder's offensive stats it's also worth noting that in 17-18 Golder faced defenses that on average ranked 89th according to KenPom, while Shane's numbers from 16-17 were against defenses that collectively ranked 193rd.

Small matter, but the numbers for Hammink appear to be from 15-16, Shane's junior year.   However, that doesn't change the fact that Golder's future is bright.

Typo on my part, I meant (junior) to illustrate both first years in the program.

No biggie ... I just knew Shane had bigger scoring numbers his senior year.  Great comparison and illustrates Golder's upside! 

[valpo84]

In past 25 years or so, Casey Schmidt and David Redmon were pretty good transfers....

Agree, Brandon, KC and Cory were among the best in past 20 years.  Lavonte Dority and Ron Howard were pretty good transfers, too.  Interesting is Golder is a JC transfer as opposed to D1 transfer, which Shane and Cory were.  Darien Walker might be a good comparison, too, as he went to JC first before VU and was a finalist for top transfer.  Likewise, one of my favorites from the JC route was Tarrance Price.

http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/2014-15/7383/darien-walker/

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/tarrance-price-joins-valpo-staff/article_fed83f67-e8f9-59e3-b82a-041f3b437ce0.html

[VUGrad1314]

Bradley will play in the Cancun Challenge against two of the following three teams: Wright State SMU Penn State This is a great scheduling get for the Braves and the MVC I think on the whole the conference chose their tournaments very well and created the potential for many quality matchups and hopefully several strong nonconference wins.

[VU2014]

https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1000359631615680512

Six Talented Players Coming 'Home'
by Harry Schroeder
May 26, 2018

http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/six-talented-players-coming-home/