Time to start the thread...and get over last night...
Here's the NKY/UIC box Score...
http://www.uicflames.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2015-2016/012216.html (http://www.uicflames.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2015-2016/012216.html)
looks like an 8-man rotation; shot 75% from the line, and got there a lot!
NKY posting: Valpo game preview
http://www.nkunorse.com/news/2016/1/23/MBB_0123163536.aspx (http://www.nkunorse.com/news/2016/1/23/MBB_0123163536.aspx)
and their full .pdf game notes...
http://www.nkunorse.com/documents/2016/1/23//NKU_MBB_GameNotes19.pdf (http://www.nkunorse.com/documents/2016/1/23//NKU_MBB_GameNotes19.pdf)
Valpo by 11. I hope we get to see a little bit of Lexus if Keith can't go (and if EVN is unproductive)
What I saw of them in an earlier game this year vs Xavier is that they are a slower, smaller version of Wright state. They are decent offensively--set based offense. We need to bounce back and get the ball in the paint. Last 5 mins last night we failed to exploit the zone by passing to FT line and working the baseline. When we do not throw entry passes, we become a jump shooting team, and we were not a good jump shooting team last night if E Vic is launching them. Agree should have gone pressing and quicker with Lexus, who is looking better based on Monday night. Our ball movement last 5 mins was atrocious.
I'm seeing reports of only about an inch of snow in the Cincinnati area.
I'm not sure how Rhode Island fared after their game.
Quote from: agibson on January 23, 2016, 09:47:16 AM
I'm seeing reports of only about an inch of snow in the Cincinnati area.
I'm not sure how Rhode Island fared after their game.
We only got a light dusting. Shouldn't cause any problems (except of course for my newspaper deliverer who still hasn't managed to show up)!
Couple of thoughts for this game:
1. Would like to see us start fast offensively. I know you can't really control how well you shot from night to night, but we seemed very passive, very content to shoot jumpers against WSU. First five possessions, I'd like to see us take the ball to the hoop or get it in to AP at least 3 of those times.
2. Match the intensity of NKU. I admit I have not done my homework on these guys due to the fact they're new in the conference but I would imagine this is their home game of the year. My guess is we'll see a good, hyped up crowd. Let's get after them early.
3. Since we haven't heard an update on Keith, i'll assume this is a game to game kind of thing. Regardless, need EVN and Shane to get comfortable running the offense.
Quote from: agibson on January 23, 2016, 09:47:16 AMI'm not sure how Rhode Island fared after their game.
Looks like it was a ~10 hour overnight Amtrak, getting in around dawn.
Should be the first game of a long stretch that locks up one of the top 2 seeds in the tournament.
Quote from: agibson on January 23, 2016, 01:59:28 PM
Quote from: agibson on January 23, 2016, 09:47:16 AMI'm not sure how Rhode Island fared after their game.
Looks like it was a ~10 hour overnight Amtrak, getting in around dawn.
By contrast, this is apparently the Duquesne men's basketball team.
[tweet]690956016159186945[/tweet]
Stuck on the interstate since about 9:30 PM.
@DuqMBB
@DuqEquipment
SMU too apparently, on their way to Temple (Philadelphia), presumably. Game was originally Saturday, postponed to noon Sunday. And scheduled, for Sunday, on ESPN2! Not sure they're going to make it...
This is what 18-0 gets you, it would seem.
[tweet]690966888390656000[/tweet]
[tweet]690942999543615489[/tweet]
Or maybe they're already in Philly, and their bus got stuck between the hotel and practice, or something?
I understand UIC took NKU to overtime and that hopefully wore them out a bit. However I wish we had more of a competitive travel partner. Could you imagine if Butler was still our travel partner?
Need from Sin City: the lone opens at Valpo by 10, goes as high as Valpo by 13, and now sits around 11.5.
Think VU will manage a chip on their shoulders? The Peters game face should be good.
At the BB&T Center and holy cow is this arena awesome! Probably the best in the HL. Hands down.
Also, some good news here... Keith Carter is taking warmups with the team, doing defensive drills, free throws, the whole bit. Doesn't look hindered but certainly testing out that ankle. But overall, he looks fine!
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Let's hope for a good game and let's go UIC.
We are struggling shooting the ball. Taking bad shots and missing the easy ones on top of it.
Carter looks good. Hate to the amount of :censored: charge calls the refs call on us.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 24, 2016, 12:22:45 PMWe are struggling shooting the ball. Taking bad shots and missing the easy ones on top of it.
Free throws on the other hand have been great. 10-12. 2-2 for Vashil.
Valpo is definitely playing with a lot of intensity. Gotta like NKU - they don't have much talent, but they seem well coached and they play pretty hard.
I didn't even see Nickerson playing. He might be in the dog house after the poor showing Friday.
Quote from: a3uge on January 24, 2016, 12:59:21 PMValpo is definitely playing with a lot of intensity. Gotta like NKU - they don't have much talent, but they seem well coached and they play pretty hard. I didn't even see Nickerson playing. He might be in the dog house after the poor showing Friday.
Nickerson finally in. He's just not as quick as he was last year. Understandably.... Difficult for him to play on the perimeter against guards two steps quicker.
Thankfully, this game is a snoozer!
Great game by our guys once they settled in. I'm glad Shane is getting the minutes and he deserves them! Still can't understand why Darien chooses to try to force drives to the hoop on fast breaks when he could pull it back and set up a play. Sloppy and way to many offensive fouls!! Otherwise, a very solid effort.
Oh, and one more thing. The announcers were very professional and called a terrific game.
NKU was kept to 30% field goal shooting (15-50), and Valpo had another double-digit plus-margin in rebounds. Usually when watching sports, most look forward to watching their team on offense. It is rare to enjoy when your team is on defense. However, when I watch this team play defense as well as they can, I am reminded how much I enjoyed watching the '85 Chicago Bears defense, perhaps even more than the offense. Obviously, defense is the key for this team.
Very enjoyable for the first game I've attended in person since 1969. After a slow start shooting the team got it together and took control stretching it out for an easy win. Nice bounce back from Friday. The BB&T Center is really nice. Pretty good crowd for a Sunday with 2 NFL playoff games coming up. I think once NKU becomes more competitive in conference attendance will pick up.
Tuned in shortly after the start of the game and missed the names of the announcers. Who was the announcer that coached Bryce in the NBA? Thought they did a good job and had done some homework, but may have been a bit effusive in their praise of us (because of our record?). Pleased, though, that they picked up on what I presume was an Aaron-fed stat about our record following a loss. And I shared their amazement at Keith's game when he was perhaps "doubtful" and certainly "questionable" before the game. It also was good to see Tevonn getting back in a better rhythm. NKU's facility looked great on TV, a fact nkvu validates in his observations.
For a game day the board seemed extremely quiet. So I counted up our total mens basketball related posts and it only totaled 13. Did everybody switch into "wait until next year" mode ???
How good or bad would we have looked without Keith Carter?
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 24, 2016, 01:22:51 PMNickerson finally in. He's just not as quick as he was last year. Understandably.... Difficult for him to play on the perimeter against guards two steps quicker.
Since his problem was wrist related this shouldn't be true but maybe he wasn't doing enough legwork while injured? If it is this simple then good because his defense last year was exceptional. Somebody needs to step up to the backup point role with a statement game that says "this job is mine get in line behind me".
Quote from: sliman on January 24, 2016, 03:45:39 PMWho was the announcer that coached Bryce in the NBA?
Jan Van Bretta Kolff
His father was an NBA player and coach--Butch Van Bretta Kolff.
Jan played mostly in the ABA but had a stint with the Nets after they moved to the NBA. He coached at Cornell, Vanderbilt, Pepperdine, St Bonaventure and in the new ABA in Nashville. He was not an NBA head coach. I'm not sure when/if he coached Bryce.
Hence the acknowledgement that he had ancestry from the Netherlands--where Hammink is from.
Here's the Valpo NoKy Box...
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/boxscore/NCAAB_20160124_VALPO@NKY (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/boxscore/NCAAB_20160124_VALPO@NKY)
and the AP Recap:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20160124_VALPO@NKY (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20160124_VALPO@NKY)
Quote from: justducky on January 24, 2016, 04:01:44 PM
For a game day the board seemed extremely quiet. So I counted up our total mens basketball related posts and it only totaled 13. Did everybody switch into "wait until next year" mode ???
How good or bad would we have looked without Keith Carter?
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 24, 2016, 01:22:51 PMNickerson finally in. He's just not as quick as he was last year. Understandably.... Difficult for him to play on the perimeter against guards two steps quicker.
Since his problem was wrist related this shouldn't be true but maybe he wasn't doing enough legwork while injured? If it is this simple then good because his defense last year was exceptional. Somebody needs to step up to the backup point role with a statement game that says "this job is mine get in line behind me".
Without Carter they would still have won by 15 or so. Our defense was just overwhelming, particularly on the perimeter. T Walker and Hamnick were getting to the rack pretty much whenever they wanted in the second half. In the half court set it's difficult to see just who is really playing point as so many sets were set up for dribble drive penetration from T Walker, Hamnick, etc. E Vic didn't really hurt us today in any phase and he was really playing hard still in the last 10 minutes when the result was already decided. Lack of effort will never be a problem with him.
These games are fun to watch when the ball state/wright state valpo team doesn't show up. They need to win out and not have anymore let downs.
Valpo is 34-8 after a loss under Bryce... not my stat... but the ESPN3 guys at NoKy kept saying it. Just watched the replay; and other than the first 10 minutes... I'd say "Methodical" would cover it.
I also wondered who the announcer was who coached Bryce and not knowing his name did a bit of googling and wikipedia work and found that he was an assistant coach for the NO Hornets in 2003-2004 when Bryce was there.
One last comment. Vashil only got credit for one block but I personally saw him get a piece of at least 3 other shots that resulted in misses. Not to mention a number of shots he altered. Still, NKU's interior players had some success although they were finally overwhelmed on the boards, particularly in the second half when they went to a zone. We were getting two, three, even four offensive boards then.
Great game for Valpo at a great, new HL facility! I was impressed with the Valpo crowd in attendance, we were certainly loud enough to be heard by all and apparently showed up at least somewhat well on TV/live stream.
The one thing that shocked me was the lack of a student presence for NKU. Absolutely no one in the student section in the first half aside from the band, cheerleaders, and dance squad. I hope that will change with time for the Norse, as they do seem well-coached and have a good public fan base, but students make all of the difference in recruiting, home court advantage, etc., IMO.
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Quote from: nkvu on January 24, 2016, 07:47:49 PM
One last comment. Vashil only got credit for one block but I personally saw him get a piece of at least 3 other shots that resulted in misses. Not to mention a number of shots he altered. Still, NKU's interior players had some success although they were finally overwhelmed on the boards, particularly in the second half when they went to a zone. We were getting two, three, even four offensive boards then.
That's hilarious. I believe he had 2 in the same possession too!
Quote from: a3uge on January 24, 2016, 09:14:04 PM
Quote from: nkvu on January 24, 2016, 07:47:49 PM
One last comment. Vashil only got credit for one block but I personally saw him get a piece of at least 3 other shots that resulted in misses. Not to mention a number of shots he altered. Still, NKU's interior players had some success although they were finally overwhelmed on the boards, particularly in the second half when they went to a zone. We were getting two, three, even four offensive boards then.
That's hilarious. I believe he had 2 in the same possession too!
Which returns me to the question I asked previously: how is a "block" defined? Does the ball have have it's path deviated by 60 degrees or something?
Quote from: humbleopinion on January 25, 2016, 05:41:16 AM
Quote from: a3uge on January 24, 2016, 09:14:04 PM
Quote from: nkvu on January 24, 2016, 07:47:49 PM
One last comment. Vashil only got credit for one block but I personally saw him get a piece of at least 3 other shots that resulted in misses. Not to mention a number of shots he altered. Still, NKU's interior players had some success although they were finally overwhelmed on the boards, particularly in the second half when they went to a zone. We were getting two, three, even four offensive boards then.
That's hilarious. I believe he had 2 in the same possession too!
Which returns me to the question I asked previously: how is a "block" defined? Does the ball have have it's path deviated by 60 degrees or something?
Maybe he didn't count the one that was borderline goaltending? Absurd!
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Quote from: valpocleveland on January 24, 2016, 07:24:47 PM
I also wondered who the announcer was who coached Bryce and not knowing his name did a bit of googling and wikipedia work and found that he was an assistant coach for the NO Hornets in 2003-2004 when Bryce was there.
Yeah, seems Wikipedia could use a bit of editing here. It covers the scandal that led to his departure from 2001–2003 St. Bonaventure but then leaves a gap in his resumee.
Was it just the one season with the Hornets? From the gap in his resumee it could have been more.
Bryce was quick enough to acknowledge him in the post game interview.
(A Nashville Scene article confirms one season, "An assistant's gig with the New Orleans Hornets lasted one season, followed by four years running a basketball camp in Cool Springs.")
I could only find that one year with the Hornets:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/vanbrja01c.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/vanbrja01c.html)
Quote from: humbleopinion on January 25, 2016, 05:41:16 AMWhich returns me to the question I asked previously: how is a "block" defined? Does the ball have have it's path deviated by 60 degrees or something?
I poked around a little on this.
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-basketball-statisticians-manual (http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-basketball-statisticians-manual)
seems like an official source, even if the 2014-2015 is the most recent that's available.
No big surprise, but what's there is fairly ambiguous. Maybe someone on the board, maybe someone closer to the scorer's table, knows more about customs and traditions.
The most relevant bits might be
Quote
A blocked shot is credited to a defensive player any time the player makes contact with the ball to appreciably alter the flight of a FGA and the shot is not made and goaltending is not called, or while a player is in the obvious act of shooting, the ball is stuffed or knocked loose before it is in flight and no foul is called. In addition to being in the obvious act of shooting, the shooting hand must be moving toward the basket in the shooting position or the shooter must be airborne and moving toward the basket with the intention of a dunk or layup and the ball must be in position for the shot. If there is doubt about whether the player was in the act of shooting, the interpretation shall be that he or she was not.
Philosophy. A blocked shot should be credited only when the shot clearly is in flight or the player is in the obvious act of shooting. In cases where the ball is knocked loose before the player is in the act of shooting, the statistic in question should be a steal.
The manual seems to care a lot about whether they're in the act of shooting or not. And, understandably, on steal/block, block/foul, and similar distinctions.
There are a bunch of detailed examples given "how to score situation X". I didn't read them all carefully, but the most relevant that I saw for "by how much does the ball have to be blocked" was sort of trivial - if they still make the shot, it's not a block.
So, we're left with "the player makes contact with the ball to appreciably alter the flight".
Fuzzy language, of course. I'm guessing they tend to only call blocks when it's pretty clear. If we need a replay to distinguish it, probably no joy. If it seems like it was such a horrible flight path that surely Vashil must have gotten a piece of it, how could a D1 player shoot that badly?, probably no joy. So, I bet finger tip blocks are unlikely to get recorded. The more decisive kind are going to be a lot easier to judge. It sounds like all of this is in the heat of the moment, when they're probably more concerned about a) the score, b)the correct field goal attempt, and c)the correct rebound.
Quote from: agibson on January 25, 2016, 12:04:10 PM
Quote from: humbleopinion on January 25, 2016, 05:41:16 AMWhich returns me to the question I asked previously: how is a "block" defined? Does the ball have have it's path deviated by 60 degrees or something?
I poked around a little on this.
http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-basketball-statisticians-manual (http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-basketball-statisticians-manual)
seems like an official source, even if the 2014-2015 is the most recent that's available.
No big surprise, but what's there is fairly ambiguous. Maybe someone on the board, maybe someone closer to the scorer's table, knows more about customs and traditions.
The most relevant bits might be
Quote
A blocked shot is credited to a defensive player any time the player makes contact with the ball to appreciably alter the flight of a FGA and the shot is not made and goaltending is not called, or while a player is in the obvious act of shooting, the ball is stuffed or knocked loose before it is in flight and no foul is called. In addition to being in the obvious act of shooting, the shooting hand must be moving toward the basket in the shooting position or the shooter must be airborne and moving toward the basket with the intention of a dunk or layup and the ball must be in position for the shot. If there is doubt about whether the player was in the act of shooting, the interpretation shall be that he or she was not.
Philosophy. A blocked shot should be credited only when the shot clearly is in flight or the player is in the obvious act of shooting. In cases where the ball is knocked loose before the player is in the act of shooting, the statistic in question should be a steal.
The manual seems to care a lot about whether they're in the act of shooting or not. And, understandably, on steal/block, block/foul, and similar distinctions.
There are a bunch of detailed examples given "how to score situation X". I didn't read them all carefully, but the most relevant that I saw for "by how much does the ball have to be blocked" was sort of trivial - if they still make the shot, it's not a block.
So, we're left with "the player makes contact with the ball to appreciably alter the flight".
Fuzzy language, of course. I'm guessing they tend to only call blocks when it's pretty clear. If we need a replay to distinguish it, probably no joy. If it seems like it was such a horrible flight path that surely Vashil must have gotten a piece of it, how could a D1 player shoot that badly?, probably no joy. So, I bet finger tip blocks are unlikely to get recorded. The more decisive kind are going to be a lot easier to judge. It sounds like all of this is in the heat of the moment, when they're probably more concerned about a) the score, b)the correct field goal attempt, and c)the correct rebound.
That's fine, but they only credited him with one steal!
Yeah, I figure most of Vashil's are lost to "did not appreciably [and obviously] alter the flight".
Quote from: agibson on January 25, 2016, 02:02:59 PM
Yeah, I figure most of Vashil's are lost to "did not appreciably [and obviously] alter the flight".
Certainly what you would want in a pilot but not a shot blocker. :)
Just noticed the photo on the VU web Site for the game is not of the NKU game but from the UWGB Game. Is that done often? :crazy:
Yep, especially when away.
Thanks
The NKU game conflicted with church and some family obligations, so I was watching it on tape delay (VCR, would you believe it?) and was offline avoiding spoilers.
A couple of questions came up during the game.
Was it just me, or was Carter often _not_ running the point? He'd be in the game, but seemed to be playing shooting guard while Hammink, or even Tevonn, ran the show. Am I the only one who saw it this way?
Did anyone get a good read on what happened to Peters ? Was it his left leg? Knee? A cut or something? Rod Moore seemed to be working on it. It seemed like _maybe_ Alec's minutes were limited after, but he did get back into the game. (And, he had the most minutes for Valpo, even if it was only 26.)
And then the fan watching. I was pleased to see a couple of ELCA "God's Work, Our Hands" shirts in the crowd. Made me wonder if they were Lutherans wearing VU gold, or Norse gold!
In other fan watching, presumably it's Jubril's dad who sports the yellow wig? But who's his younger wigged companion? Peters' kid brother?