I know I'm jumping the gun by starting this thread, and I'm sure there will be a different, more official one than mine, but I still wanted to start talking about this now. What do you guys think about our chances at Murray State? Our performance against Nebraska and St. Louis was plagued by poor shooting. Against New Mexico, we had improvement, but still we lacked firepower as Rowdy was really the only one who brought his offensive game that night. Assuming we roll over Purdue-Cal (as if there is a scenario where it won't happen), how do we look going into the game?
I haven't yet taken the time to learn about Murray State, but I will say that I'm more optimistic now than I would have been yesterday at this time. I like the line-up changes Bryce has made and have a feeling that it will pay dividends down the road - hopefully sooner rather than later.
This is not about Murray but I thought I'd stick it here rather than start a thread with only a few hours remaining. FYI Purdue Calumet will play a league game tonight vs. Purdue-North Central and 18 hours later play Valpo. Ludicrous.
Now, back to Murray State.
It will be an interesting matchup between Canaan and Buggs on defense for sure.....
Kenney, Boggs or Dority wil need a big game to help out Rowdy to keep it close. Should be a fun game.
Do you guys think Dority adds enough offense to supplement Ryan? In other words, if both of those guys have a good game, Kevin has at least a decent game, and then you get a few triples here and there between guys like Boggs, Kenney, and Bogan, is that a good enough recipe to beat Murray State? I certainly have not looked into how good they are this year, so I have no idea.
If your looking to scout Murray State and have ESPN 3 you can watch their game against Arkansas State at Jonesboro, AR on Wednesday:
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/737911/size/condensed/ (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/737911/size/condensed/)
Also the Sunday, 12/16/12 game against Western Kentucky in Murray, KY:
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/688401/size/condensed/ (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/688401/size/condensed/)
By the way this Valpo at Murray State game is an ESPN 3 exclusive next Saturday.
I've watched Murray play twice, and I can't wait to see KVw bang against their big guy with the fro! We will need to contest those 3s closely and grab up those long rebounds.
Even with the lineup changes...not happening. They're just a better team right now.
Quote from: HC on December 21, 2012, 09:45:22 PM
I've watched Murray play twice, and I can't wait to see KVw bang against their big guy with the fro! We will need to contest those 3s closely and grab up those long rebounds.
They still have the fro guy?! I thought he graduated. Ed Daniel I think is his name.
Quote from: bbtds on December 21, 2012, 09:24:21 PM
If your looking to scout Murray State and have ESPN 3 you can watch their game against Arkansas State at Jonesboro, AR on Wednesday:
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/737911/size/condensed/ (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/737911/size/condensed/)
Also the Sunday, 12/16/12 game against Western Kentucky in Murray, KY:
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/688401/size/condensed/ (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/688401/size/condensed/)
By the way this Valpo at Murray State game is an ESPN 3 exclusive next Saturday.
And to this - :thumbsup: :)
Quote from: DMvalpo18 on December 21, 2012, 11:37:51 PM
Quote from: HC on December 21, 2012, 09:45:22 PM
I've watched Murray play twice, and I can't wait to see KVw bang against their big guy with the fro! We will need to contest those 3s closely and grab up those long rebounds.
They still have the fro guy?! I thought he graduated. Ed Daniel I think is his name.
The 6'7" 228 lb Birmingham, AL native is a senior this year.
http://goracers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3072&path=mbball (http://goracers.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3072&path=mbball)
(http://goracers.com/images/2012/12/18/rp_primary_IMG_0837.jpg)
I miss Ben Wallace. (obviously a pistons fan, not a bulls fan.)
RPIForecast says MSU by 8; VU a 25% chance of the upset--interestingly the exact same spread/percentage as the us at UIC game...
(On the plus side, 97% chance of beating UWM at home!:) (!!!)
RealTimeRPI says MSU by 13--also MSU's RPI rank! Interestingly, not the worst loss we are predicted to take--that's by 15 at UIC...
Obvious observation is obvious: This is the big-time win we need.
Getting a view of the Murray State arena above I wondered how many it seats.
http://www.murraystate.edu/cfsbcenter/venue.htm (http://www.murraystate.edu/cfsbcenter/venue.htm)
The CFSB Center has an 8,500 capacity. Valpo could support a slightly smaller venue that I hope would look much like this basketball facility.
http://goracers.com/sports/2005/12/13/356453001.aspx?path=mbball (http://goracers.com/sports/2005/12/13/356453001.aspx?path=mbball)
"Since 1998, the Racers have enjoyed a big home court advantage as Murray State is among the best in the nation with an outstanding winning percentage. The Racers were 15-0 at the CFSB Center in the 2009-10 season."
Murray State leads Dayton at halftime 41-36. Canaan has 15 pts on 2 of 3 threes and 9 of 9 FT's. Daniel has 9 pts on 3 of 4 FG's and 3 of 6 FT's (now Valpo knows who to foul). Fields has 6 pts also on 2 of 3 threes. Team totals are 6 of 12 threes, 11 of 23 FG's and 8 turnovers. Daniel has most of the turnovers as he has been having trouble getting to the basket with Dayton's defender all over him. The Murray State coach, Steve Prohm, has been battling the refs to get the fouls called on Daniel's defender.
With 1:12 left in Dayton, it looks like the wind might be out of Murray State's sails...down to the Flyers, 71-62. Dayton is currently on a 12-2 over the last 3:15. Daniel has a double-double with 13pts and 12 boards. Canaan has been stuck on 18 points for awhile now.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 22, 2012, 08:02:54 AM
I miss Ben Wallace. (obviously a pistons fan, not a bulls fan.)
RPIForecast says MSU by 8; VU a 25% chance of the upset--interestingly the exact same spread/percentage as the us at UIC game...
(On the plus side, 97% chance of beating UWM at home!:) (!!!)
RealTimeRPI says MSU by 13--also MSU's RPI rank! Interestingly, not the worst loss we are predicted to take--that's by 15 at UIC...
Obvious observation is obvious: This is the big-time win we need.
I know UIC is up this year, but we are predicted to lose to them by 15 points? What happened?
And we are to win 64-63 at home.
well, it's just the computers. we'll take another look when conference season is about to start.
DM, I'm sure that computer rendering of how UIC should beat us by 15 was before the Flames started to get some tough games coming. I'm sure the two games against UIC will be a lot closer than they've been recently, but I'm not sure that we'll see a 15 point blowout, unless they fall apart, or we IMPLODE!
UIC loses to Western Illinois by 16 and today loses by 12 to Miami (OH)... speaking of wind out of the sails! I was told today that tickets are impossible for the VU game at the Pavilion...
Quote from: talksalot on December 22, 2012, 06:18:49 PM
speaking of wind out of the sails! I was told today that tickets are impossible for the VU game at the Pavilion...
There are seats in section 106 ($23.78 per seat-$18 plus $5.78 ticketmaster fees) and section 108 ($20.67 per seat-$15 plus $5.67 ticketmaster fees) per the Ticketmaster website for the Valpo at UIC game on Jan. 9 as of today/Saturday.
http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/04004926D5085F85?artistid=843544&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7 (http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/04004926D5085F85?artistid=843544&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7)
Quote from: talksalot on December 22, 2012, 06:18:49 PMUIC loses to Western Illinois by 16 and today loses by 12 to Miami (OH)... speaking of wind out of the sails! I was told today that tickets are impossible for the VU game at the Pavilion...
I tweeted earlier today that UIC's record is a fraud. They are waking up from their dream start, just in time for the start of the conference season!
New Mexico lost at home to an underdog from the summit...SOUTH DAKOTA STATE.
So...that will drop them a lot in the numbers ranking.
As we await the game with Murray State after this week-long break, I have posted a number of new pictures from last week's home games to my Valpo basketball photo blog, including the ones below, and the total is now about 125 (see signature below for URL). A few folks have messaged me about use of the photos, and you certainly have permission to copy them for personal purposes. Please feel free to check out all the photos during the lull of this week off from games. Merry Christmas to all!
(http://i49.tinypic.com/15e7n2q.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/ilemtu.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2s6syn5.jpg)
I just can't see us getting any quality road wins for a few years:
Murray State 67
Valpo 62
VU 63
Murray State 71
Paul
Valpo 69
Murray State 70
I see more upside in this team lately, but I don't see us putting it together already at Murray State against an experienced quick team.
I also see the "Racers" going at a faster pace and higher points.
Murray 81
Valpo 72
VU 79
MSU 78
on two underhanded FTs by Erik Buggs, inexplicably in game on offense in the crunch.
http://movieclips.com/m6Xvh-hoosiers-movie-ollie-sinks-his-free-throws/ (http://movieclips.com/m6Xvh-hoosiers-movie-ollie-sinks-his-free-throws/)
I don't think the key to this game is Isaiah Canaan, but instead I think Ed Daniel holds the key to a Valpo Victory.
http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/murray-state-vs-valpo/ (http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/murray-state-vs-valpo/)
Quote from: HC on December 26, 2012, 09:42:33 PM
I don't think the key to this game is Isaiah Canaan, but instead I think Ed Daniel holds the key to a Valpo Victory.
http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/murray-state-vs-valpo/ (http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/murray-state-vs-valpo/)
Love the analysis, way over my head. Can't wait for the game!
Quote from: vu72 on December 26, 2012, 10:34:02 PMQuote from: HC on December 26, 2012, 09:42:33 PMI don't think the key to this game is Isaiah Canaan, but instead I think Ed Daniel holds the key to a Valpo Victory. http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/murray-state-vs-valpo/ (http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/murray-state-vs-valpo/)
Love the analysis, way over my head. Can't wait for the game!
Thanks. I heard one time that the WSJ is written at an 8th grade reading level, so I try to use to fancy of words (my vocabulary doesn't have fancy words in it even if I wanted to use them). Fancy (well not really) formulas though are another thing. As long as what I write isn't too long I'm happy. As soon as things I post get too wordy I'm done!
I try to look for anything and everything positive with our Crusaders, and the PPS analysis is helpful in that regard. That said, the fact is we are 2-4 on the road, culminating with a bizarre late game collapse against a bad Oakland team just a little more than a week ago. I realize we have made some line-up changes since then, but I'm afraid I'm from Missouri right now.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/26/is-murray-state-an-elite-mid-major-program-or-just-a-good-team/ (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/26/is-murray-state-an-elite-mid-major-program-or-just-a-good-team/)
Quote from: wh on December 26, 2012, 11:30:10 PM
I try to look for anything and everything positive with our Crusaders, and the PPS analysis is helpful in that regard. That said, the fact is we are 2-4 on the road, culminating with a bizarre late game collapse against a bad Oakland team just a little more than a week ago. I realize we have made some line-up changes since then, but I'm afraid I'm from Missouri right now.
Yeah, but who do you like in the Valpo-Murray State game? ;)
I think the key to this game is the other 3 point shooters on Murray State. If Fields, Zay Jackson or Wilson can hit some threes Valpo will be in trouble. We basically know what Daniel and Canaan can do and even if they score 17 points and 20 points like they did against Dayton the Racers could still lose. The key in that game was the 0 for 7 that Stacy Wilson shot from three. If Murray State had been way ahead when Dayton made their run the Racers still could have won that game.
Also any time that a team has a player named Rambo you have to watch out for him. Tyler Rambo is a freshman from the Kansas City area.
Quote from: historyman on December 27, 2012, 09:13:36 AM
I think the key to this game is the other 3 point shooters on Murray State. If Fields, Zay Jackson or Wilson can hit some threes Valpo will be in trouble. We basically know what Daniel and Canaan can do and even if they score 17 points and 20 points like they did against Dayton the Racers could still lose. The key in that game was the 0 for 7 that Stacy Wilson shot from three. If Murray State had been way ahead when Dayton made their run the Racers still could have won that game.
Also any time that a team has a player named Rambo you have to watch out for him. Tyler Rambo is a freshman from the Kansas City area.
Not to pick on your post but couldn't the same be said of Valpo? If players other than Rowdy are hitting their 3's (Matt, Jordan, Ben, etc) then it will make it difficult to stop our bigs as they won't be able to sag in, and thus Valpo will be hard to beat. We haven't lost any games where we hit 35-40% of our 3's (I think ???)
Quote from: vu72 on December 27, 2012, 09:27:55 AM
Quote from: historyman on December 27, 2012, 09:13:36 AM
I think the key to this game is the other 3 point shooters on Murray State. If Fields, Zay Jackson or Wilson can hit some threes Valpo will be in trouble. We basically know what Daniel and Canaan can do and even if they score 17 points and 20 points like they did against Dayton the Racers could still lose. The key in that game was the 0 for 7 that Stacy Wilson shot from three. If Murray State had been way ahead when Dayton made their run the Racers still could have won that game.
Also any time that a team has a player named Rambo you have to watch out for him. Tyler Rambo is a freshman from the Kansas City area.
Not to pick on your post but couldn't the same be said of Valpo? If players other than Rowdy are hitting their 3's (Matt, Jordan, Ben, etc) then it will make it difficult to stop our bigs as they won't be able to sag in, and thus Valpo will be hard to beat. We haven't lost any games where we hit 35-40% of our 3's (I think ???)
Yes, but has Valpo's supporting cast every hit their three point shots on the road this season or last season? Valpo simply does not shoot well from three on the road.
I just do not feel that Valpo has shown the ability to have enough options on offense to beat a higher tier team.
Valpo 58
Murray State 70
Quote from: bbtds on December 27, 2012, 10:37:11 AM
Quote from: vu72 on December 27, 2012, 09:27:55 AM
Quote from: historyman on December 27, 2012, 09:13:36 AM
I think the key to this game is the other 3 point shooters on Murray State. If Fields, Zay Jackson or Wilson can hit some threes Valpo will be in trouble. We basically know what Daniel and Canaan can do and even if they score 17 points and 20 points like they did against Dayton the Racers could still lose. The key in that game was the 0 for 7 that Stacy Wilson shot from three. If Murray State had been way ahead when Dayton made their run the Racers still could have won that game.
Also any time that a team has a player named Rambo you have to watch out for him. Tyler Rambo is a freshman from the Kansas City area.
Not to pick on your post but couldn't the same be said of Valpo? If players other than Rowdy are hitting their 3's (Matt, Jordan, Ben, etc) then it will make it difficult to stop our bigs as they won't be able to sag in, and thus Valpo will be hard to beat. We haven't lost any games where we hit 35-40% of our 3's (I think ???)
Yes, but has Valpo's supporting cast every hit their three point shots on the road this season or last season? Valpo simply does not shoot well from three on the road.
I understand and agree that its been hard on the road, but, it can happen. Last year we shot 11 of 22 from the 3 at CSU, 8 of 20 at Detroit and 8 of 19 at Loyola. We even went 5 of 16 (not as good of course) in a win at Butler. In unfirmiliar space with unfirmiliar lighting and background it is hard for any team. Hopefully we breakout this time.
If you take Will out of that Detroit game I think Valpo shoots 1/12 from 3
Quote from: HC on December 27, 2012, 06:03:05 PM
If you take Will out of that Detroit game I think Valpo shoots 1/12 from 3
He was 4 of 8, so the net is 4 of 11, still a pretty high %.
Yea that's not bad, here is the game I was referring to.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/media/basketball-men/2011-12/boxscores_stats/mb16-udm.htm (http://www.valpoathletics.com/media/basketball-men/2011-12/boxscores_stats/mb16-udm.htm)
Quote from: HC on December 26, 2012, 10:44:17 PM
Quote from: vu72 on December 26, 2012, 10:34:02 PMQuote from: HC on December 26, 2012, 09:42:33 PMI don't think the key to this game is Isaiah Canaan, but instead I think Ed Daniel holds the key to a Valpo Victory. http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/murray-state-vs-valpo/ (http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/murray-state-vs-valpo/)
Love the analysis, way over my head. Can't wait for the game!
Thanks. I heard one time that the WSJ is written at an 8th grade reading level, so I try to use to fancy of words (my vocabulary doesn't have fancy words in it even if I wanted to use them). Fancy (well not really) formulas though are another thing. As long as what I write isn't too long I'm happy. As soon as things I post get too wordy I'm done!
Yeah, I can be bad about the fancy words thing sometimes....
We need to get one of these road wins as an underdog. I think we can play with Murray State, but will we?
Murray State 75
Valpo 71
Quote from: vu84v2 on December 27, 2012, 02:25:24 PM
I just do not feel that Valpo has shown the ability to have enough options on offense to beat a higher tier team.
Valpo 58
Murray State 70
With a wealth of options now available I think this team soon starts performing like the well oiled machine that many of us have been waiting for. Even with excellent play a victory at Murray St will be hard to get, so maybe a 65-62 Valpo loss. I think your 12 point spread number is much too large. In fact we should stand a better chance at a narrow win than a 10 point plus, blow out loss.
This is the "Fan Zone" forum. There seems to be an awful lot of realism and too little fanaticism (or fantasy or wishful thinking).
Valpo 80
Murray St. 73
The game will see-saw back and forth (a belief to keep me watching even if Valpo falls behind), but Valpo inches ahead at the end of the game forcing Murray St. to foul. Valpo hits its free throws down the stretch to account for the difference.
Early lines have Valpo an underdog by 6-7 points. Although I would love to see an upset, I expect VU to follow the Vegas odds once again and fall to 9-5 in non-conference games, exactly as I had predicted at the beginning of the season. I just want everyone to stay healthy and ready for conference play.
Valparaiso 68
Murray St. 77
Under Bryce, when this team has scored 70 pts, they have generally won nearly all games. This year, Valpo has scored 48, 49 and 52 in losses, with 68 in a loss to Oakland. Murray has been a more uptempo team (unlike SLU and New Mexico (did you see their win against Cincy last night)). I'm struggling with why offensively we have struggled as generally Bryce's 2 teams, plus when he helped the O under Homer, have not had huge issues scoring, including against Butler's "stifling D" in their NCAA runner up teams. Even in the 3 losses to SLU, NM and Neb, we were close at the half.
Notwithstanding,
Murray 78
Valpo. 70
Game will be 2 points at half. We wil go cold from after 16 min TV timeout til after 11 min TV timeout and we fall behind by 10-12 and then we cut to 4 but cannot cut it farther missing open 3s twice then having to foul and Murray is delivered to promised land by Isaiah Canaan.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 26, 2012, 07:28:07 PM
VU 79
MSU 78
on two underhanded FTs by Erik Buggs, inexplicably in game on offense in the crunch.
http://movieclips.com/m6Xvh-hoosiers-movie-ollie-sinks-his-free-throws/ (http://movieclips.com/m6Xvh-hoosiers-movie-ollie-sinks-his-free-throws/)
Then we go home to face Loyola and run the "picket fence" at 'em! Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry!
Since we have had 2 different references to the movie "Hoosiers" in 2 different threads I thought I would throw in this picture taken in 2006 at the Hoosier Gym in Knightstown, IN where the movie's home court scenes were shot.
(http://mikefender.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Hoosier-Gym-Knightstown/G0000IObok69h_24/I0000UPJ7lFatTjk)
http://mikefender.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Hoosier-Gym-Knightstown/G0000IObok69h_24/I0000UPJ7lFatTjk (http://mikefender.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Hoosier-Gym-Knightstown/G0000IObok69h_24/I0000UPJ7lFatTjk)
Can you name the four in this picture who played members of the Hickory Husker team?
I can recognize three of them by character name, but I'm blanking on the fourth, the one on the far right, in the light blue polo.
Back row, 2nd from the left is Maris Valainis, Jimmy "I can make it" Chitwood.
Maris' high school coach who cut him from the varsity at Bishop Chatard HS was there the day they filmed the state championship game at Hinkle Fieldhouse. When Maris made the famous shot in the film on one take he turned to the coach and smiled real big.
Back row, 1st from the right is Steve Hollar, Rade Butcher, the character who got pulled of a game for not making four passes before shooting and then when another player fouled out was told by Coach Dale to "sit" when he started to go back in the game which left Hickory with only 4 players at the end of the game.
Steve's 1984 Warsaw Tigers team won the state championship. So when Steve shot the movie in 1985 he was fresh from winning a state championship at Market Square Arena.
Front row, 1st from the left is Wade Schenck, Ollie, who made the two free throws underhanded to win the game.
Wade is the manager of a welding supply store in north Indy and lives in Pittsboro, the same hometown as NASCAR driver, Jeff Gordon
Front row, in the middle is Brad Long, Buddy, who was kicked out of the first practice by Coach Dale and played defense like glue against one opponent that he knew he was chewing Dentyne gum.
Game Previews:
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/vu-foe-murray-state-is-led-by-all-american-candidate/article_1b03f584-4175-5b1d-83d1-762c149815da.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/vu-foe-murray-state-is-led-by-all-american-candidate/article_1b03f584-4175-5b1d-83d1-762c149815da.html)
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/17270202-419/valpos-erik-buggs-willing-to-do-whatever-it-takes-to-win.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/17270202-419/valpos-erik-buggs-willing-to-do-whatever-it-takes-to-win.html)
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2012-13/12274/valpo-men-take-trip-to-murray-state/ (http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2012-13/12274/valpo-men-take-trip-to-murray-state/)
C'mon guys....
Valpo 81
MSU 75
Turnovers and missed layups in the first 4 minutes. Typical Valpo basketball these days.
Why didn't Bryce take a timeout with 30 seconds to go when Lovonte was whistled for a 5 second call????? ??? >:(
Why wasn't a hand check called on Canaan? I hope Valpo attacks Daniel right away, and that someone has taught KVW how to set a legal screen at halftime.
.... The shot .... Shown 7 minutes into second half. ;)
Woot.
Okay, there's our big road win! Time to move to conference play. Happy New Year to all!
Yes!!!!!
:o. What a big win!!!!!
We really looked good.... I think we played well against Murray and their "home" refs.
Finally, we finished off a big game on the road! It's confusing to think we beat Murray State, but lose to Nebraska. I guess it makes more sense if you think about it in terms of being more cohesive at this point of the season. Plus, we also have Dority now.
I TOLD YOU SO!!! Well, not really ;) but a very solid effort. We killed them on the glass, 42-26 or something like that. The announcers were all about Caanan and a little about Ryan. To me, Ryan, with 18 and 8 was the POG versus Caanan with 24 and 3. Ryan shot 50% from the 3 and overall.
Great team win. The chemistry is starting to mess.
I am so proud of my son and the team, great win on the road fellas :thumbsup:
Quote from: vu72 on December 29, 2012, 04:07:52 PM
I TOLD YOU SO!!! Well, not really ;) but a very solid effort. We killed them on the glass, 42-26 or something like that. The announcers were all about Caanan and a little about Ryan. To me, Ryan, with 18 and 8 was the POG versus Caanan with 24 and 3. Ryan shot 50% from the 3 and overall.
Great team win. The chemistry is starting to mess.
Ryan was much more efficient and effective. Caanan was 8-21 overall, 3-9 from 3. Another example of how anyone can score 20 points if you take enough shots.
A good win after a bad start. Good to see us come back and hold onto a win after falling behind by double digits, as we haven't done that against good teams in the past. Now let's start conference out right by beating a surprising Loyola team, and not underestimating a bad CSU team!
Only two points whats wrong with these guys!!! ;)
Fifteen total offensive rebounds... that's amazing.
Good win! Great rebounding and defensive effort. Nice to pick up a quality win on the road and still see opportunity for further improvement.
I thought that Valpo would lose this game due to turnovers and missed shots. Instead the Crusaders saved several "wanna-be" turnovers from going out of bounds and hit just enough shots to win by 2. There for a moment on one sequence I thought Rowdy was going to finally get a tip-in after Van Wijk's missed lay-up. Ryan ended up tipping it 3 times without the ball falling in. There were some beautiful sequences by Coleman, Boggs, Buggs and Dority that helped the Crusaders stave off a Murray State run that could have put Valpo out of the game. And despite all the defensive hounding that Broekhoff received he found a way to finally break through and score and keep scoring. That was one heck of a great performance by Ryan. That one play where he saved the ball from going out of bounds (a good example of Valpo saving a "wanna-be" turnover) and controlling the pass enough to lift it perfectly to the basket for a lay-up was an incredibly great moment and the real "play-of-the-game."
I would just like to point out that among the 11 people that predicted an outcome, only
--humbleopinion
--vuchicago
aaand some guy named
--laporteaveapostle
PREDICTED THE WIN.
for what it's worth, we just beat Sagarin's #48 team on the road. We were ranked 106 so coupled with other Horizon League wins, it should assure us of remaining ranked #11 on the conference level. We'll see where Valpo ends up tomorrow morning...
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 29, 2012, 06:51:09 PM I would just like to point out that among the 11 people that predicted an outcome, only --humbleopinion --vuchicago aaand some guy named --laporteaveapostle PREDICTED THE WIN.
And how many times have you predicted a win for Valpo and it didn't happen? What's your actual prediction winning percentage?
http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/29/valpo-tops-murray-state/ (http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/29/valpo-tops-murray-state/)
The PPS for the teams and players today. Daniel scored high but they did a nice job limiting his minutes and how effective he was on the defensive end. Dority put up one of the highest - scores since he missed so many shots. Ryan and Kevin were both under their averages, KVW was way off, and Ryan did a nice job despite being hounded defensively all game.
Still don't like our 10 assists vs. 17 turnovers.
Great win, great job on Daniel and Canaan, great way to end the non conference schedule. This is the type of win that catapults a team into believing they can win against supposedly superior teams on the road.
Quote from: historyman on December 29, 2012, 07:39:01 PM
And how many times have you predicted a win for Valpo and it didn't happen? What's your actual prediction winning percentage?
And how many times have you predicted a loss for Valpo and it didn't happen? What's your actual prediction losing percentage?
Unmm, so since neither of you had any part in winning this game and since noone else cares who predicted what as long as we win, perhaps you can finish this conversation in pm's?
It's really nice to see the guys come off a week layoff, fresh legs and focused to win a big one. From what I saw down in Texas, their sports writers were a bit surprised to see the #5 ranked Mid Major get knocked-off at HOME!!! ;D :thumbsup:
Well done Crusaders! Now for the conference season, keep those W's coming!
So, this is our best non-conference win since... ?
Any ideas? For a good long while, I should think.
Best in general terms? Best in RPI?
By RPI, we may have to wait until the end-of-season RPI for an easy comparison with earlier seasons. But, Murray State was 18 before the game, and 31 after.
Looking back over the last four years, anyway, the only RPI top-50 wins were in the 2010-2011 season. All at home. Butler finished 19, CSU 43, Missouri State 39. We'll see if Murray State ends up finishing as high as the likes of those.
Should be an interesting conference opener against ramblers.... Both of us coming off big wins.
Great win for the Crusaders and the Horizon League! Murray has an outside shot to stay in the RPI top-50, but it will be tough with the OVC schedule upcoming. They should get a little boost with a good BracketBuster game.
Since Murray has been mentioned as a Horizon League expansion target, I wonder if any Horizon League officials (LeCrone?) made this trip. Would be a good opportunity to make some introductions.
With expansion in mind, that brings a couple of questions to mind:
1. Does the fact that Valpo beat Murray in their building help or hurt the cause of getting Murray to the Horizon? I guess that depends whether Murray is looking for a step up on competition, or if they like being a big fish in a small OVC pond.
2. Any word on how the travel was to Murray? Anyone know if Valpo bussed, flew commercial (out of Nashville?) or chartered? I'm just curious because it seems like the travel might be a concern for both Murray and Belmont in terms of joining the Horizon.
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 30, 2012, 02:43:12 PMGreat win for the Crusaders and the Horizon League! Murray has an outside shot to stay in the RPI top-50, but it will be tough with the OVC schedule upcoming. They should get a little boost with a good BracketBuster game.
Because of the Oakland loss our at-large potential remains near zero despite the win at Murray, but just for fun let me run a hypothetical.
Imagine that Murray St gets it back into gear, dominates conference and bracketbuster play but somehow manages to drop one regular season conference game to somebody not named Belmont. Imagine further that they then lose the OVC championship tournament game to the #2 seed (most likely Belmont) giving them a 5 loss season.
Now imagine that Valpo somehow slowly puts it all together with multiple narrow victories resulting in a table run, except they also drop the Horizon championship game to the 2 seed. That would leave Murray and Valpo both on the bubble with 5 loses. Who would have the better case for tournament inclusion and could this result in a both in or both out situation? Yeah-I must have too much time on my hands to have dreamed this all up, so try to humor me. ;)
Quote from: justducky on December 30, 2012, 06:48:55 PM
....... could this result in a both in or both out situation? Yeah-I must have too much time on my hands to have dreamed this all up, so try to humor me. ;)
I come up with these scenarios and bring them up with my wife ... Just to drive her crazy ... She hates it when I think of these hypotheticals.
However, here on fan zone you can pose these crazy situations and will likely find someone else who likes thinking of these. I can't remember exact situations but I am betting they have solved the bubble by saying both in, both out and who won when they played each other. I was first thinking it would be neat to see but really I just want another run at the tourney.
Watching some of our conference play games so far - quite a few could get hot at any point and surprise a "better" opponent. I actually think out first conference game will be VERY interesting. We are both coming off of big wins.
There has never been a mid-major with a record of 28-5 (or better) consigned to the NIT. (A low-major at 28-6 was.)
So if we run the table in conference (+BB) we're in even if we lose the tourney final.
Winning the Horizon bid is the ball game and you want the the #1 or #2 seed as a tool to get there.
Forget the at-large bid. We will do very well to pick up fewer than 4 HL losses even tho we beat Murray St. Last year we beat Butler in Indy and still lost 4. Nothing so far this year proves we are any better. Just on par.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 30, 2012, 09:57:39 PMThere has never been a mid-major with a record of 28-5 (or better) consigned to the NIT.
Quote from: crusadermoe on December 30, 2012, 10:52:25 PM
Winning the Horizon bid is the ball game and you want the the #1 or #2 seed as a tool to get there.
Forget the at-large bid.
I just hate going out on a lake and coming home with an empty stringer, so let me reel in, change bait, move the boat, and make my cast from a slightly different direction. :)
We could imagine that Valpo and Murray St both stay at 5 loses but that every multiple bid league has a big tournament championship upset and that these 2 teams are by the numbers the last team in and the first team out. We could also dream up a case where they might be the last in and the first out with both having lost 6. Either way who would the selection committee pick given the details that I listed in the previous post? Might they be more likely to find a way to rationalize both teams in or both teams out even if that result would be in conflict with the numbers? Reel reel jerk wiggle wiggle..........Reel reel jerk wiggle wiggle
A very newsy post game story from the Murray, KY newspaper, including several quotes from both coaches:
http://murrayledger.com/sports/murray_state/wrong-way-murray-state-falls-in-second-straight-for-first/article_25c9807e-52f9-11e2-8145-0019bb2963f4.html (http://murrayledger.com/sports/murray_state/wrong-way-murray-state-falls-in-second-straight-for-first/article_25c9807e-52f9-11e2-8145-0019bb2963f4.html)
Quote from: wh on December 31, 2012, 05:28:33 PM
A very newsy post game story from the Murray, KY newspaper, including several quotes from both coaches:
http://murrayledger.com/sports/murray_state/wrong-way-murray-state-falls-in-second-straight-for-first/article_25c9807e-52f9-11e2-8145-0019bb2963f4.html (http://murrayledger.com/sports/murray_state/wrong-way-murray-state-falls-in-second-straight-for-first/article_25c9807e-52f9-11e2-8145-0019bb2963f4.html)
Now THAT, was an in-depth article. Very interesting. Hopefully our experience will continue to payoff as we go forward.
Excuse me, but did somebody mention something about us running the table in the Horizon? We are not THAT good. Remember, Gordon Hayward's Butler team did that last, and they went to the National Championship game. Which by the way, that one was a game for the ages. So let's forget about this whole at large thing. The only reason a resumé means something now is so that if we win the conference tournament, we can get a better seed. We lost to Oakland and Nebraska - can we let go of this fanatical world in which you still have at large hopes with those losses?