The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

I do not know what will happen to Jubril Adekoya. He may be guilty, he may not be guilty - I have no idea. but 2 issues really bother me with the honor council based on what I am reading.

First, the honor council is run like a French government - you are guilty until you are proven innocent. Anyone can report an issue confidentially and you are guilty. This person can have a vendetta against you - maybe an ex-partner in a relationship, rivaling fraternities and sororities trying to get the better end for some bogus superiority, one student jealous or antagonistic against another. But someone can report anything and you are automaticially guilty. That is wrong and can lead to a lawsuit. Also, are there any consequences for those making a unethical report?

Second, and more significant for this situation - if the honor council is a very significant part of how Valpo is operated, then why should Jubril Adekoya wait until the start of the spring semester for a decision to be made? if the report occurs at the end of the spring semester, why should the indicted student have to wait for the start of the fall semester? I understand student and professors are involved and it is a holiday break, but a person's integrity and career is at stake, and a decision should be made in a more prompt manner. If the honor council is important, Some honor council mentors, students, leaders and whoever should be made available to promptly assess and make decisions for situations like these. This should also apply to anyone.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone confirmed that the reason Jubril is sitting out is waiting for the Honor Council? If the student who helped Jubril cheat was a part of the team in any way, it becomes an NCAA issue, correct? My assumption has always been that they are sitting him now to show the NCAA they are taking this seriously while also investigating that it has not continued to happen. IF it had happened for more than just once class, and they allow him to play and it turns out that he ends up ineligible for all his fall classes the team would have won with an ineligible player. This seems less like waiting on the honor council and more like an abundance of caution during an investigation to not invalidate any potential wins.

Quote from: usc4valpo on December 30, 2016, 10:16:30 AMI do not know what will happen to Jubril Adekoya. He may be guilty, he may not be guilty - I have no idea. but 2 issues really bother me with the honor council based on what I am reading. First, the honor council is run like a French government - you are guilty until you are proven innocent. Anyone can report an issue confidentially and you are guilty. This person can have a vendetta against you - maybe an ex-partner in a relationship, rivaling fraternities and sororities trying to get the better end for some bogus superiority, one student jealous or antagonistic against another. But someone can report anything and you are automaticially guilty. That is wrong and can lead to a lawsuit. Also, are there any consequences for those making a unethical report? Second, and more significant for this situation - if the honor council is a very significant part of how Valpo is operated, then why should Jubril Adekoya wait until the start of the spring semester for a decision to be made? if the report occurs at the end of the spring semester, why should the indicted student have to wait for the start of the fall semester? I understand student and professors are involved and it is a holiday break, but a person's integrity and career is at stake, and a decision should be made in a more prompt manner. If the honor council is important, Some honor council mentors, students, leaders and whoever should be made available to promptly assess and make decisions for situations like these. This should also apply to anyone.

You're making multiple assumptions here regarding Jubril since we don't know what the issue is or what process is involved aside from rumors informed or otherwise. 

The process of the Honor Council much like the Wheels of Justice does move slow.

2624 - true, but something needs to be done to speed up the process.

If you saw my post in the Chicago State thread specific to my Honor Code accusation experience at Valpo, you will know that I fully agree that the HC review process is a bit backwards.  To answer your query about whether the accuser has any repercussions if they levy a false accusation, they do not.  In my case, it was just a 'ho hum' attitude that they were incorrect in their accusation.  I asked the student investigator if I was allowed to seek any type of punishment to the person that falsely accused me, and I was told that there is no recourse for such a thing.  Meanwhile, I got to spend my entire 2-3 month Summer wondering what the heck I was being accused of, since they didn't really tell you anything substantial until you meet with the investigator.  I was only told the class that it involved, and that it was someone saying that I cheated.

Tx - your post made me think about this. I think the honor council needs to reassess their decision process or there can be potential lawsuits. We live in a new century and the process can certainly be expedited.

The fact that Jubril has been suspended from the team but Max hasn't suggests to me that Jubril's case has already been decided; Max's hasn't. Like any court case, it's far less time consuming to get to the bottom line when someone pleads guilty.

Thus, my best guess is Jubril has been suspended from the basketball team until the beginning of the 2nd semester as part of the disciplinary action imposed by the Honor Council. Max's case and disposition have yet to be determined.

The honor council process sounds like a kangaroo court. They should address each situation promptly and swiftly especially given the potential repercussions one could get. I would hope they would do something to someone if they falsely and/or intentionally tried to set someone up to get in trouble with the honor council if they didn't do anything wrong. Otherwise, I would assume it would be fair game to sue the person making the false allegations for defamation in a civil case

Quote from: valpolaw on December 30, 2016, 11:57:30 AM
The honor council process sounds like a kangaroo court. They should address each situation promptly and swiftly especially given the potential repercussions one could get. I would hope they would do something to someone if they falsely and/or intentionally tried to set someone up to get in trouble with the honor council if they didn't do anything wrong. Otherwise, I would assume it would be fair game to sue the person making the false allegations for defamation in a civil case

Do they even know who the accuser might be, or is that confidential?

I would assume they have to provide you with the evidence against you so you can properly defend yourself against whatever is being alleged but I'm not entirely sure how it works at Valpo. Maybe there's some confidentiality to it. However, if a lawsuit was filed, the records and everything would be subject to full discovery and a subpoena so you could find out who made the allegations.

I would think since he's been sitting games since before break began that his case has been heard and the punishment assigned. I also assume Max's case was heard and decided as well. I would think these cases would be sped up knowing what was at stake. I'm hopeful we see Jubril in uniform today.

Quote from: valpolaw on December 30, 2016, 12:34:34 PMI would assume they have to provide you with the evidence against you so you can properly defend yourself against whatever is being alleged but I'm not entirely sure how it works at Valpo. Maybe there's some confidentiality to it. However, if a lawsuit was filed, the records and everything would be subject to full discovery and a subpoena so you could find out who made the allegations.

They present you with the evidence. If the accuser is a student, the student's identity is not revealed. The Honor Council appears to only rule on the educational element. In other words, if guilty you get an F. There's really no room for recommendation of a sports suspension. The only possibility would be a case with aggravating circumstances which might include a criminal element. I don't think this case would if what the rumors are actually is the case. There is a recording of the proceedings but the recording is not made available other than to a select few. Accused is not permitted legal representation in the hearing.

In terms of suing, I wonder if you give up that right by agreeing to the Honor Code in the first place.

Quote from: VULB#62 on December 30, 2016, 12:28:14 PM

Quote from: valpolaw on December 30, 2016, 11:57:30 AM
The honor council process sounds like a kangaroo court. They should address each situation promptly and swiftly especially given the potential repercussions one could get. I would hope they would do something to someone if they falsely and/or intentionally tried to set someone up to get in trouble with the honor council if they didn't do anything wrong. Otherwise, I would assume it would be fair game to sue the person making the false allegations for defamation in a civil case

Do they even know who the accuser might be, or is that confidential?

Based on what we've been previously told, the accuser is the former team manager who presumably has been kicked out of school for stealing. Thus, I suspect the issue may be more NCAA related versus Honor Counsel, particularly if more then one class was involved.

Yes, I think all of these questions about the honor council are probably not really why he's sitting out. If this student had proof and Jubril admitted the process would be fairly quickly processed through the council as it is a real clear cut case of cheating. My guess is this is more related to NCAA and eligibility.  The other thing that makes me think that this is not honor council related yet is the relative amount of silence around this. Something like this going to honor council would probably lead to a lot more leaky lips and would not really require the team to keep it's mouth shut this tightly. My fear is that Jubril was not the only one that received this service over the last year or so. My guess is that they are attempting to investigate how far this might go and don't want people asking questions about it until they know all the facts.

You are correct that you NEVER find out the identity of the accuser.  They are completely protected, while the accused gets disciplined immediately, in the form of being treated as if you are guilty.  I wasn't given my final exam or semester grade until this was resolved, so again, I had to wait 2-3 months for some 10 minute 'investigation,' while the accuser got to continue with his/her life unaffected.

Or he failed several classes and fell below the required 12 credit hours for last semester eligibility.

Would he then have to wait until he is registered for 12+ credit hours to play?  I.E. 2nd week of January'ish?

After all, he travels with the team and sits on their bench.

"Playing college basketball is a privilege, starting's a privilege," Lottich said. "Derrik played well against Chicago State. Jay can't control his circumstance, but Derrik was at practice. He deserved it.

"This is what I wanted — I wanted to keep a big 'five' in there, a fresh one, and both of them gave us huge minutes. It's a little bit of a two-headed monster. We're going to try to continue to build on this."

Innocuous comment, or a hint about a future without Jubril?

I'd think he wants to play one of the big freshmen, Jubril at the 4 and Alec at the 3. He's hinting at a comeback 🤞

Quote from: M on December 31, 2016, 11:50:32 AMI'd think he wants to play one of the big freshmen, Jubril at the 4 and Alec at the 3. He's hinting at a comeback 🤞

We will miss Jubril most against opponents who grab an early lead and force us to go small. We no longer have a solid answer for that situation even if Alec plays 38 minutes.

On the positive side my optimism for Jaume and Derrik has skyrocketed. With or without Jubril we need to keep their feet to the fire. I can now picture their end of season play levels and they could be substantial contributors to any post season success.

A few Questions:

Does anyone know if Jubril is still participating in practicing?

And I heard something about a manager leaving the team? What happened with the team manager? Something about stealing? I thought I remember reading something in the forum about that.

Also has anyone seen or heard anything about John Middleton? John was one of the transfer redshirts this year. He wasn't in the team photo way in the beginning of the season. I have haven't heard anything. Was wondering if he was on the bench with the team.

Quote from: VU2014 on December 31, 2016, 01:23:31 PM
A few Questions:

Does anyone know if Jubril is still participating in practicing?

And I heard something about a manager leaving the team? What happened with the team manager? Something about stealing? I thought I remember reading something in the forum about that.

Also has anyone seen or heard anything about John Middleton? John was one of the transfer redshirts this year. He wasn't in the team photo way in the beginning of the season. I have haven't heard anything. Was wondering if he was on the bench with the team.

Per Twitter earlier today, Middleton is no longer with the team.  Mentioned by both Oren and Osipoff.

QuotePer Twitter earlier today, Middleton is no longer with the team.  Mentioned by both Oren and Osipoff.

Thanks for the heads up. Wonder what happened. This means we have an additional scholarship opening.

When does the Spring semester start up again?  I have to think that is what we are waiting for, because he is still on the bench for each home game.  I would have to think that if he is suspended for the year, he wouldn't be allowed to do so?

Starts Jan 11th. Wednesday.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 08, 2017, 09:38:16 PM
Starts Jan 11th. Wednesday.

3 weeks and 5 days between semesters. Wow!  I wonder if freshmen are going to have to use Google Maps to find their way back?  ;)

Osipoff dropped a tweet stating Thursday's game is the first of the new semester....hopefully he is hinting that something is up

Did I see Jubril in uniform on Friday?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: covufan on January 08, 2017, 11:58:03 PMDid I see Jubril in uniform on Friday? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looked like he was in street clothes to me.

Quote from: wh on January 08, 2017, 09:55:49 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 08, 2017, 09:38:16 PM
Starts Jan 11th. Wednesday.

3 weeks and 5 days between semesters. Wow!  I wonder if freshmen are going to have to use Google Maps to find their way back?  ;)

But if they do find their way back, they will get a 2d semester is starting cupcake and participation ribbon.   8-)

Quote from: valpo84 on January 09, 2017, 08:38:06 AM

Quote from: wh on January 08, 2017, 09:55:49 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 08, 2017, 09:38:16 PM
Starts Jan 11th. Wednesday.

3 weeks and 5 days between semesters. Wow!  I wonder if freshmen are going to have to use Google Maps to find their way back?  ;)

But if they do find their way back, they will get a 2d semester is starting cupcake and participation ribbon.   8-)

I have some awards like those.


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Speculation (btw - I have not read this thread or any other for a while, so perhaps the answer has already been revealed): 

I work at a high school.  "25% of your season" is a very common punishment for athletes at our level.  We had 31 regular season games.  25% of that is 7.75 (rounds up to 8).   He has been out 7 games so far.  Perhaps one more game and then he is back? 

I know what I am about to say is SO wrong on so many levels, but I have to admit that I have been thinking that enough is enough with this punishment thing.  Yes, the kid violated the honor code.  He confessed his transgressions.  He was suspended from the team. He's missed a bunch of games. He probably flunked one or more courses that he'll have to retake.  So, when is enough enough?

If this happened at Missouri, for example, someone would file a discrimination suit on his behalf when it first happened, there would be organized marches and protests, the basketball team would refuse to play until he's reinstated, the university president would be fired, and his replacement would drop the whole thing in a heartbeat. By the time it's all said and done, he would be issued an apology and assigned his own personal safe space so he could recover from the stress and discomfort he suffered from being accused of something. 

That, of course, represents the ridiculous liberal extreme, but, conversely, does what Valpo is doing represent an equally ridiculous conservative extreme?  It's like 2 sets of parents at opposite ends of the discipline spectrum.  One set coddles the kid, while the other set beats the kid.

Ok, kill me.  ;)         

Point well taken...but what if it's not academic at all?  We had some guy who is anonymous (vulgar) and unknown make a statement about basketball assistant...baseball thievery and our two guys having school work done for them.  Verified by reliable source?  Are any of the assistants no longer with the bball program even?

Has any of that been confirmed irregardless of what JOSEPH and Jubril were suspended for?  Just being the devils advocate to cut out the variables that haven't been confirmed by a valued resource.

Perhaps the honor council will get to work

Quote from: wh on January 10, 2017, 05:54:20 PM
I know what I am about to say is SO wrong on so many levels, but I have to admit that I have been thinking that enough is enough with this punishment thing.  Yes, the kid violated the honor code.  He confessed his transgressions.  He was suspended from the team. He's missed a bunch of games. He probably flunked one or more courses that he'll have to retake.  So, when is enough enough?

If this happened at Missouri, for example, someone would file a discrimination suit on his behalf when it first happened, there would be organized marches and protests, the basketball team would refuse to play until he's reinstated, the university president would be fired, and his replacement would drop the who,kle thing in a heartbeat. By the time it's all said and done, he would be issued an apology and assigned his own personal safe space so he could recover from the stress and discomfort he suffered from being accused of something. 

That, of course, represents the ridiculous liberal extreme, but, conversely, does what Valpo is doing represent an equally ridiculous conservative extreme?  It's like 2 sets of parents at opposite ends of the discipline spectrum.  One set coddles the kid, while the other set beats the kid.

Ok, kill me.  ;)       

No, you are spared. But what if those prescribed  "failures" in themselves make him ineligible ( I have no clue about his GPA..... just wondering).

Quote from: VULB#62 on January 10, 2017, 10:01:37 PMNo, you are spared. But what if those prescribed  "failures" in themselves make him ineligible ( I have no clue about his GPA..... just wondering).

I would think it would have to be a large number of classes for him to become ineligible considering Jubril is a member of the Horizon League Academic Honor Roll and was a Horizon league representative to the NCAA Student-Athlete Leadership Forum.

This is what doesn't make sense to me, if this is an honor code violation and the examples that have been laid out on this forum are the status quo for the way these violations are handled, according to the "source" both Jubril and Max were accused of a violation, but are being handled differently.  Jubril supposedly admitted to something (we don't really know what that entails) and Max did not... The way the examples have been explained, admittance of guilt or not really had no affect on the Honor Council proceedings.... so why is Max being allowed to play????

Very few people seem to know the full story surrounding Jubril (and Max) so we're all speculating and guessing.  Here are a couple of thoughts.  If as has been reported here, Max denied doing anything wrong and he's still playing; Jubril admitted making a false honor code statement so he's not playing (having admitted violating the Honor Code).  If the Honor Council did not have an opportunity to meet during final exam period, it's possible that Max's case may still get reviewed in the same time period time Jubril's is heard.  Perhaps Max is not out of the woods yet.  It's also possible that the issue with Jubril could be the effect that failing a class (due to the alleged Honor Code violation) would have.  At one time there was a rule that you had to have passed 12 hours the previous semester to be eligible.  If, for example, Jubril was enrolled in 14 credits and is given a failing grade in a 3-hour course, he potentially would have passed only 11 hours.  His gpa, which apparently is solid, has no bearing in that case.  The scenario with Max, in addition to his denial of guilt, is that even if the Honor Council finds him guilty of something and he is given a failing grade in a class, it might not negatively impact the rule regarding the number of hours passed the previous semester -- for example, if he was taking 15 hours and is given a failing grade in 3, he's still have passed 12 hours.  We don't know Max's gpa, but it's probably good enough as a junior to survive a failing grade.  Keep in mind that I know nothing specific about this situation, but as someone mentioned previously it's possible that since Jubril allegedly admitted guilt he's being handled differently and is being held out as a precaution if he's ruled academically ineligible which could date back to the end of the previous semester.  Just some thoughts.

Quote from: sliman on January 11, 2017, 09:57:47 AMIt's also possible that the issue with Jubril could be the effect that failing a class (due to the alleged Honor Code violation) would have.  At one time there was a rule that you had to have passed 12 hours the previous semester to be eligible.  If, for example, Jubril was enrolled in 14 credits and is given a failing grade in a 3-hour course, he potentially would have passed only 11 hours.

Sometime, maybe, I'll come back to this thread and say a few things about the honor council.

I am curious, myself, about the NCAA eligibility rules. Glancing at them a a little
http://www.ncaa.org/about/division-i-progress-toward-degree-requirements
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D115.pdf?division=d1

It looks like the requirements for the previous semester are reasonably soft - completing six credits. So, even if you were taking a minimal load, you might have to fail _most_ of your classes to have an impact. Basically, it seems like your cumulative standing is more important. And, once you're a junior or senior, if you have done relatively well, you can retain your eligibility despite a fairly bad semester. (Who knows, maybe there are Valpo Athletics or team rules that would be stricter than what I see from the NCAA.)

I guess the honor code could have some bearing on this - but I would have thought it would affect _Spring_ semester eligibility. Fall semester eligibility being determined, in part, by passing 6 credits the previous Spring. And, I believe the honor code has a statute of limitations that would prevent action on courses from last Spring - but I'm not immediately finding evidence of the statute of limitations. (The honor council has been revised somewhat in recent years, and revisions may still be underway; separately the university web sites have been undergoing some revision; between those two it seems like some helpful information like an Honor Council FAQ may have been lost.)

A situation of academic misconduct among student-athletes is not unprecedented. Consider the scandal at Harvard in 2012 when over 100 students were found guilty of cheating and two basketball players were among the large group of students that were caught. Harvard suspended both players (one of whom had been their leading scorer in the previous season) and they were forced to withdraw for a year. Both players came back after a year (note that Harvard won the Ivy League and an NCAA game without those two players). Valparaiso's policies regarding the honor code and athletes certainly will drive how this gets resolved, but I would argue that Valpo should (and does) aspire to be more like a Harvard than like a large state school.

Paul and Parker touch on the Jubril suspension and the mystery surrounding it. Paul mentioned that nobody knows anything and they suspect that they are wait word for a decision which slightly leads me to believe the hunch of waiting on the Honor Council decision is true or maybe they are waiting on an NCAA ruling, but my gut says the honor council.

If he were to fail a class or two or maybe have cheat what are the penalties? He's missed 9 games already.

(19:00minutes in)
http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_a079bdde-d824-11e6-b720-3f8032a4143f.html

If there is a games suspended penalty for whatever happened, I sincerely hope that "time served" will be a SIGNIFICANT factor.  Jubril has sat for a bunch of games already and to have a suspension take effect going forward would be onerous and unfair.

The honor council needs to get off their butts and protocol and move forward on this. The basketball is an important part of Valpo is perceived

I believe Honor Council only meets on days when class is in session, excluding final exam periods, so today may have been the first opportunity for a meeting. 
valpo.edu/honor-council/files/2016/10/HCConstitution2014.pdf (http://valpo.edu/honor-council/files/2016/10/HCConstitution2014.pdf)

Nobody knows what the issue is however we can offer an opinion as to who has to do what and when  ;D

In addition to Paul's speculation that the wait is for the NCAA no one has mentioned that he may be sticking with the team waiting for the Honor Council to render a decision and punishment which could be severe enough to remove him from the team at that point. So we may not be just awaiting the end of a suspension.

any happenings on this?

Quote from: usc4valpo on January 13, 2017, 11:20:33 AMany happenings on this?

We all know the answer. We're just not telling you.

The first rule of the Honor Council is we do not talk about the Honor Council.

At this point, I'm counting on long odds that Jubril plays again.  At this point, you sorta wonder how a guy would respond coming back.  We have such a short bench, and he's so talented/experienced that I am sure he would play, but the Smitsrolla combo has earned some time.  I'm sure he'd get minutes at the 5 but, if we can ever get a healthy lead in a game, I could see him being used to give Peters 4-10 minutes of rest at the 4.  Smits seems to leave his feet every time a player comes into the paint and then poop himself with surprise when he gets whistled, and sorolla, while able to stay out of foul trouble, isn't quite there to push around with some of the bigger post players. 

You done messed up, Jubril....


Some how, even with 7 and near 7 footers to replace him, we still seem to lose every freakin opening tip.  To guys 4-8 inches shorter than our 5s....  Freshmen gonna Freshmen. 

Quote from: JPEven on January 14, 2017, 05:31:53 PMSome how, even with 7 and near 7 footers to replace him, we still seem to lose every freakin opening tip.  To guys 4-8 inches shorter than our 5s.... 

I bet Tevonn's itching for a chance!

Think back to last year...I was always wondering why Vashil never won a tip!!  :crazy:

It's like deferring in football. Trust the defense.

This board gets off task so easily.

Quote from: M on January 14, 2017, 09:00:47 PMIt's like deferring in football. Trust the defense.

But it's a contest! Who likes to lose contests?

I can't imagine why Jubril would hang out in street clothes on the bench at home games if he isn't going to come back this year.  That doesn't make any sense because he doesn't have another year of eligibility.  The other possibility is that the suspension hasn't been decided yet, which would also be hard to believe given the amount of time that has passed, but who knows.  It sounds like the honor council is some sort of kangaroo court and unfortunately that process may take time to play out.

I also can't imagine Jubril coming back and not jumping right back into the starting line up and getting significant minutes.  Smits/Jay have done a good job replacing him for the time being, but lets be honest, our team was much much better with Jubril in the line up.  Our point guard play hasn't been very good and that leads to sloppy play on both ends.  If I was going to play us, I would full court press us given that we continue to struggle with the press.   

Quote from: valpolaw on January 15, 2017, 09:28:51 AMI can't imagine why Jubril would hang out in street clothes on the bench at home games if he isn't going to come back this year. 

Condition of his scholarship? But you've got to wonder about the locker room dynamic.

Regardless if Jubril plays another game in a Valpo uniform, we all hope that he ends up with a degree from Valparaiso University.  I don't know how close he is to obtaining that but no matter what happens I hope he gets that diploma. 

Quote from: valpolaw on January 15, 2017, 09:28:51 AMI can't imagine why Jubril would hang out in street clothes on the bench at home games if he isn't going to come back this year.  That doesn't make any sense because he doesn't have another year of eligibility.  The other possibility is that the suspension hasn't been decided yet, which would also be hard to believe given the amount of time that has passed, but who knows.  It sounds like the honor council is some sort of kangaroo court and unfortunately that process may take time to play out. I also can't imagine Jubril coming back and not jumping right back into the starting line up and getting significant minutes.  Smits/Jay have done a good job replacing him for the time being, but lets be honest, our team was much much better with Jubril in the line up.  Our point guard play hasn't been very good and that leads to sloppy play on both ends.  If I was going to play us, I would full court press us given that we continue to struggle with the press.

At this point, the best guess is this is a non Valpo holdup. The Honor Council, if involved, would have met and issued their decision by this time. So while it's convenient to blame the Honor Council because....well we have to blame someone....I'm not sure that blame it appropriately place. Fact is, none of us know what the actual situation is and we are unlikely to ever find out what it is.

The Valparaiso basketball team site indicates that Jubril graduated after his junior year and is pursuing a master's degree.

Kudos to Valpo for keeping this somewhat hush hush.  Also, kudos to the university for not rushing to any type of decision just because he is an athlete.

If he truly cheated, there is no excuse and he needs to be expelled from the team and the school.  Simple.

I'm a firm believer in Vu's honor code and think it is great.  Each time I wrote it and signed my name next to it I new if I cheated not only would my true character be majorly flawed but I'd be gone as a student.

If he didn't, and this holding pattern was due to the honor council process it needs to be changed to expedite it for all students.  Kind of like TX brought up, no student should have to wait that long. 

Expelled from the team, possible.  The school after 1 incident...not sure that ever happens or happened.  Severity aside, football players have an anual quota for cheating in the years I was at VU.  Not sure many even served a games suspension.

Times could have changed, but this isn't Singapore where spitting out chewing gum onto the street leads to caning.

How about a worst case scenario in which the story about the manager writing papers for Jubril is true and it goes back some time to past semesters? Where would that leave him.....and the team?

Quote from: VU2624 on January 15, 2017, 04:53:23 PM
How about a worst case scenario in which the story about the manager writing papers for Jubril is true and it goes back some time to past semesters? Where would that leave him.....and the team?

My thought exactly.  This could end up being an eligibility issue and if so it could possibly lead to forfeiting games.  Let's hope not.

Quote from: Chairback on January 15, 2017, 03:26:13 PMIf he truly cheated, there is no excuse and he needs to be expelled from the team and the school.  Simple.

How do you or the university define cheating? I only ask because open access to repeated lab files removes up to 90% of the thinking and learning. So by my experience and judgement perhaps 60% of those who passed certain classes at certain unnamed schools should have taken them over.

What is help exactly? If I ask a prof then anything he tells me is fine, but if I ask another student then reengineer his steps and conclusions what exactly have I learned  ???

Quote from: VUSL98 on January 15, 2017, 02:52:26 PMThe Valparaiso basketball team site indicates that Jubril graduated after his junior year and is pursuing a master's degree.

This thickens the plot. Did he really graduate? How many classes might retroactively change to F? Is that even a possibility? I am so confused!

Quote from: justducky on January 15, 2017, 05:54:05 PMHow do you or the university define cheating?

I have neither given or received, nor have I tolerated others' use of unauthorized aide.

Define "Unauthorized".  Asking another student for help understanding an issue is not unauthorized.  Having another student write a paper is.

Quote from: vu72 on January 15, 2017, 07:11:08 PMHaving another student write a paper is.

This is obvious and I agree.

Quote from: vu72 on January 15, 2017, 07:11:08 PMDefine "Unauthorized".  Asking another student for help understanding an issue is not unauthorized.

This is still murky. As I said before "What is help exactly?" If the learning process has been short circuited by acceptance of others doing your hard thinking what is its value?

Quote from: justducky on January 15, 2017, 05:54:05 PMbut if I ask another student then reengineer his steps and conclusions what exactly have I learned 

Let me ask this again. If the only way you can solve a problem is by having someone else do the thinking for you, have you cheated?

OK I agree. This thread hyjacking now has very little to do with Jubril. Sorry!

I'm starting to think we've seen the end of Jubril Adekoya in a Valpo uniform. (By stating this I'm hoping that he will be dressed and ready to go tomorrow.)

Quote from: M on January 15, 2017, 08:42:04 PM
I'm starting to think we've seen the end of Jubril Adekoya in a Valpo uniform. (By stating this I'm hoping that he will be dressed and ready to go tomorrow.)

It's getting down to this game or Sunday and then he's out for the year I've got to think. 

Undoubtedly we had bad timing with end of semester, but this is the first full week back.

Kind of a dumb question, but if the period of "suspended play" continues much longer, does Jubril and the team have the option of redshirting this year?  Did he play too many games already?  Does suspension for cause count toward sufficient reasons for missing games?  If the fact-finder (whoever that is; HC, NCAA) determines that Jubril did nothing wrong, then the suspension would be without cause?  Obviously, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I like to look at positive options.  If the option is there, may want to think about that soon.  Jubril can just get another degree.

I would bet my next paycheck that a suspension is not grounds for issuing a redshirt.

I wouldn't bet against you.  What if the suspension is later deemed unfounded?

Quote from: 4throwfan on January 15, 2017, 09:29:55 PM
I wouldn't bet against you.  What if the suspension is later deemed unfounded?

It's my belief that WE as a program are holding him out.  If it were the NCAA then there's a leg to stand on, if it's our call he's done

I think we need to consider the possibility that the Council had already decided Jubril's fate in early December, when we first became aware that he had been suspended. In other words, rather than currently being suspended from the team while awaiting his "sentence," maybe his suspension is part of his sentence.

Tonight will be the 10th game since Jubril last played. Just pure conjecture, but IF he received a 10-game suspension as part of his "sentence," this whole issue could be almost over.

Quote from: wh on January 16, 2017, 05:21:10 AMI think we need to consider the possibility that the Council had already decided Jubril's fate in early December, when we first became aware that he had been suspended. In other words, rather than currently being suspended from the team while awaiting his "sentence," maybe his suspension is part of his sentence. Tonight will be the 10th game since Jubril last played. Just pure conjecture, but IF he received a 10-game suspension as part of his "sentence," this whole issue could be almost over.

I'm not sure the Honor Council would be in the business of issuing sports suspensions. My understanding, which may be incorrect, is that they act on academics...a failing grade, suspended scholastically for a semester, expulsion. How the Basketball program would react may be more the answer. Maybe the Basketball program has, for instance, a 5 game suspension per HC violation and he had 2 HC dings.

All this is speculation though and we'll probably never find out what the deal really is.

I hate saying it, but this Jubril absence has really developed our future big men.  Smits and Sorolla would not be anywhere near what they are now, without the last 9 games.

Quote from: agibson on January 15, 2017, 09:31:05 AMI can't imagine why Jubril would hang out in street clothes on the bench at home games if he isn't going to come back this year.  Condition of his scholarship? But you've got to wonder about the locker room dynamic.

Well, I'd say he has some coaching value.  Certainly in practice. 

Additionally, since Valpo is a school that gives a crap about character and making these guys in to decent adults, I'd say the best punishment for something like this is having a front row seat to how much your stupid actions have cost your friends...

Quote from: VU2624 on January 15, 2017, 10:52:11 AMAt this point, the best guess is this is a non Valpo holdup. The Honor Council, if involved, would have met and issued their decision by this time. So while it's convenient to blame the Honor Council because....well we have to blame someone....I'm not sure that blame it appropriately place. Fact is, none of us know what the actual situation is and we are unlikely to ever find out what it is.

Without every having been involved with the honor council, i'd have to agree.  In addition to the length, I think it would be impossible to keep the proceedings quiet.  If it were internal with the HC, someone on campus would know something, and it seems like no one really does, at least with regards to consequences.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 16, 2017, 11:21:33 AM

Quote from: wh on January 16, 2017, 05:21:10 AMI think we need to consider the possibility that the Council had already decided Jubril's fate in early December, when we first became aware that he had been suspended. In other words, rather than currently being suspended from the team while awaiting his "sentence," maybe his suspension is part of his sentence. Tonight will be the 10th game since Jubril last played. Just pure conjecture, but IF he received a 10-game suspension as part of his "sentence," this whole issue could be almost over.

I'm not sure the Honor Council would be in the business of issuing sports suspensions. My understanding, which may be incorrect, is that they act on academics...a failing grade, suspended scholastically for a semester, expulsion. How the Basketball program would react may be more the answer. Maybe the Basketball program has, for instance, a 5 game suspension per HC violation and he had 2 HC dings.

All this is speculation though and we'll probably never find out what the deal really is.

Apparently I should have provided more clarity. Suspending Jubril from the team would, of course, be an Athletic Department decision, not an Honor Council decision. The point was that we have been operating under the assumption that Jubril was suspended pending resolution of cheating allegations, while, in fact, the issue may have been completely resolved before Jubril sat out his first game.

Quote from: valpotx on January 16, 2017, 01:47:07 PMI hate saying it, but this Jubril absence has really developed our future big men.  Smits and Sorolla would not be anywhere near what they are now, without the last 9 games.

The Jubril suspension was definitely the best thing that could have happened to Smirolla and the 2017-2018 team, apart from landing a point guard transfer mid season

Quote from: JPEven on January 16, 2017, 02:42:01 PMThe Jubril suspension was definitely the best thing that could have happened to Smirolla and the 2017-2018 team,

Yup! We traded a slightly used Smits and a "like new" Sorolla for two brand new Smirollas with all the bells and whistles. You can't say no to a deal like that.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: VUSL98 on January 15, 2017, 02:52:26 PMThe Valparaiso basketball team site indicates that Jubril graduated after his junior year and is pursuing a master's degree.

Which might be the simplest explanation why Max Joseph  is back and Adekoya isn't.   

Quote from: VU75 on January 16, 2017, 05:35:53 PM

Quote from: VUSL98 on January 15, 2017, 02:52:26 PMThe Valparaiso basketball team site indicates that Jubril graduated after his junior year and is pursuing a master's degree.

Elaborate on your logic please.

Which might be the simplest explanation why Max Joseph  is back and Adekoya isn't.

Quote from: justducky on January 16, 2017, 03:08:45 PM

Quote from: JPEven on January 16, 2017, 02:42:01 PMThe Jubril suspension was definitely the best thing that could have happened to Smirolla and the 2017-2018 team,

Yup! We traded a slightly used Smits and a "like new" Sorolla for two brand new Smirollas with all the bells and whistles. You can't say no to a deal like that.  :thumbsup:

All very true.   But we are going to need all 3 of them for me to feel comfortable about winning the conference tournament.  And I don't think we can win an NCAA tournament game without Jubril (unless we get a very favorable matchup).  Also, a rusty Jubril will not do.  He needs at least 6-8 games to shake off the rust.   

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 16, 2017, 05:38:48 PM

Quote from: VU75 on January 16, 2017, 05:35:53 PM

Quote from: VUSL98 on January 15, 2017, 02:52:26 PMThe Valparaiso basketball team site indicates that Jubril graduated after his junior year and is pursuing a master's degree.

Elaborate on your logic please.

Which might be the simplest explanation why Max Joseph  is back and Adekoya isn't.

I probably should have elaborated.  Are we assuming or do we know that the Honor Council applies to Masters Level students?

Also, can we assume that in his masters program a failed course is treated any differently?  We made mention that a Sophomore failing due to HC puts their GPA at risk.  Can the same be said about a first semester Masters Level student?

Does anyone recall the HC literature making mention of non-undergraduates?

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 16, 2017, 05:53:43 PMDoes anyone recall the HC literature making mention of non-undergraduates?

Don't have a definitive answer.  I did find this in the Honor Code Constitution:

All academic work completed and submitted for credit in any form by a student while enrolled at
Valparaiso University shall be governed by the Honor System as it is defined in the Constitution.

"by a student" would seem to include everyone.  The Law School does have an Honor Code and as you might expect, the rules and interpretations cover about 10 pages.

Odd set of tweets by PO, Jubril and AP.

Quote from: M on January 16, 2017, 09:28:36 PM
Odd set of tweets by PO, Jubril and AP.

What did Alec say? Didn't see that.

Can you post the tweets here? Didn't see them.

IDK how to do that. Just look up PO and find that tweet. Sorry 😕

I do find it very hard to believe that Jubril doesn't know what a "university matter" means in his case.

Quote from: M on January 16, 2017, 10:04:14 PMIDK how to do that. Just look up PO and find that tweet. Sorry 😕 I do find it very hard to believe that Jubril doesn't know what a "university matter" means in his case.

The tweet from PO has disappeared. I saw where Jubril tweeted "me neither" but nothing from Peters. Then it just went away.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 16, 2017, 05:53:43 PM

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 16, 2017, 05:38:48 PM

Quote from: VU75 on January 16, 2017, 05:35:53 PM

Quote from: VUSL98 on January 15, 2017, 02:52:26 PMThe Valparaiso basketball team site indicates that Jubril graduated after his junior year and is pursuing a master's degree.

Elaborate on your logic please. Which might be the simplest explanation why Max Joseph  is back and Adekoya isn't.

I probably should have elaborated.  Are we assuming or do we know that the Honor Council applies to Masters Level students? Also, can we assume that in his masters program a failed course is treated any differently?  We made mention that a Sophomore failing due to HC puts their GPA at risk.  Can the same be said about a first semester Masters Level student? Does anyone recall the HC literature making mention of non-undergraduates?

HC applies to all students including graduate students who have their own honor council. Penalties are similar in order of offense 1st failure in course, 2nd failure in course and semester suspension, 3rd failure in course and expulsion. The one interesting issue which could be at play is multiple simultaneous violations. This would be if said team manager was writing papers for the player in multiple course. That situation is not really addressed.

Quote from: valpotx on January 16, 2017, 01:47:07 PM
I hate saying it, but this Jubril absence has really developed our future big men.  Smits and Sorolla would not be anywhere near what they are now, without the last 9 games.

Now if they could learn how to make bunnies!

I mean, it's not difficult. Place male rabbit with female rabbit. Wait.

Quote from: VUBBFan on January 16, 2017, 10:18:30 PM

Quote from: M on January 16, 2017, 10:04:14 PMIDK how to do that. Just look up PO and find that tweet. Sorry 😕 I do find it very hard to believe that Jubril doesn't know what a "university matter" means in his case.

The tweet from PO has disappeared. I saw where Jubril tweeted "me neither" but nothing from Peters. Then it just went away.

On the internet nothing truly disappears.

(https://s30.postimg.org/ml29mzby9/unnamed.png)

Bizarre.

This whole Jubril situation keeps getting stranger by the day. 

This whole situation is really weird. Interesting that Jubril slightly addressed it and Alec backed him up.

Maybe we need to reevaluate this whole thing. Maybe it's not a Honor Council thing. I'm still willing to say it is and the 'Honor Council' is the same old slow moving process it use to be.

As for the Athletic Department, Team and Coaching Staff good on them for not leaking anything for not addressing it all for limiting any potential PR backlash, but damn do I really want to know what the heck is going on and I'm sure Jubril and his teammates want an explanation more then all of us die-hard fas.

It's really not cool that the University or potentially the 'honor council' isn't keeping Jubril in the loop on his own case, especially when your as high profile a student as being on the basketball team and causing speculation.

The tweets don't bother me...yet. 

Is Jubril still actively involved with the team?  Was he on bench for the Green Bay game?

Quote from: covufan on January 17, 2017, 01:24:37 PM
The tweets don't bother me...yet. 

Is Jubril still actively involved with the team?  Was he on bench for the Green Bay game?

He was on the bench in street clothes, as usual.

Like someone posted earlier, they can't do anything for Jubril that they wouldn't be willing to do for any other student in the same predicament.  Apparently then, students accused of violating the honor code have no right to or expectation of a speedy resolution, to know where the matter stands, or when it will be resolved. Why do I picture a group of sanctimonious people lording over this process, who when asked why are you taking so long to resolve this, respond with a wry, dismissive, "Because we can."   

QuoteIs Jubril still actively involved with the team?  Was he on bench for the Green Bay game?

Coach Gore last week publicly credited Jubril and Chandler Levingston Simon for the development of either Jay or Derrik developing moves. Jubril has been at every home game and the UIC game (he wasn't on the team bus though) on the bench in Valpo gear sweats. So he's actively participating in practice and still from sounds of it doing a very good job of embracing the senior mentoring role. Coach Gore publicly backed him and gave him a shout out.

Sounds like a bureaucratic 'honor council' logjam. I'm not just saying this as a fan but as an alumni it's not cool to see the honor council or whoever is "ruling" on this kicking their feet and leaving Jubril out of the loop. Someone needs to get their @ss into gear and show some level of professionalism to at least inform him. I'm pretty disappointed in the University if this is on their end (and considering its been stated as a "university matter" its not on the NCAA).

Don't give any athletes special treatment, but don't leave him (student) not knowing his status. It's been a month and a half.

Quote from: wh on January 17, 2017, 01:43:57 PMWhy do I picture a group of sanctimonious people lording over this process, who when asked why are you taking so long to resolve this, respond with a wry, dismissive, "Because we can."

I can see the kind of guy that wants to be a student on the honor council also being the kind of guy that didn't make the basketball team his freshman year of high school...

Let Jubril Play

He wasn't wearing "street" clothes but rather the same warm up type outfit that Bakari and Joe were wearing.  I think that's important as it says "he is part of the team".

uh... so i was just on twitter and typed in paul's twitter handle in the search bar and this came up...

https://twitter.com/flinton_william/status/821451624979828736

some created a #LetJubrilPlay account and tweeted that meme at ML, Coach Lottich, Jubril and Alec lol

Quote from: wh on January 17, 2017, 01:43:57 PM

Quote from: covufan on January 17, 2017, 01:24:37 PMThe tweets don't bother me...yet. Is Jubril still actively involved with the team?  Was he on bench for the Green Bay game?

He was on the bench in street clothes, as usual. Like someone posted earlier, they can't do anything for Jubril that they wouldn't be willing to do for any other student in the same predicament.  Apparently then, students accused of violating the honor code have no right to or expectation of a speedy resolution, to know where the matter stands, or when it will be resolved. Why do I picture a group of sanctimonious people lording over this process, who when asked why are you taking so long to resolve this, respond with a wry, dismissive, "Because we can."

You're assuming that it is an HC issue.

Quote from: VU2014 on January 17, 2017, 01:54:48 PM

QuoteIs Jubril still actively involved with the team?  Was he on bench for the Green Bay game?

Coach Gore last week publicly credited Jubril and Chandler Levingston Simon for the development of either Jay or Derrik developing moves. Jubril has been at every home game and the UIC game (he wasn't on the team bus though) on the bench in Valpo gear sweats. So he's actively participating in practice and still from sounds of it doing a very good job of embracing the senior mentoring role. Coach Gore publicly backed him and gave him a shout out. Sounds like a bureaucratic 'honor council' logjam. I'm not just saying this as a fan but as an alumni it's not cool to see the honor council or whoever is "ruling" on this kicking their feet and leaving Jubril out of the loop. Someone needs to get their @ss into gear and show some level of professionalism to at least inform him. I'm pretty disappointed in the University if this is on their end (and considering its been stated as a "university matter" its not on the NCAA). Don't give any athletes special treatment, but don't leave him (student) not knowing his status. It's been a month and a half.

"university matter" can mean anything including waiting on the NCAA to rule on eligibility.

Quote from: VU2014 on January 17, 2017, 03:34:22 PM
uh... so i was just on twitter and typed in paul's twitter handle in the search bar and this came up...

https://twitter.com/flinton_william/status/821451624979828736

some created a #LetJubrilPlay account and tweeted that meme at ML, Coach Lottich, Jubril and Alec lol

Yeah I got tweeted at along with Rowdy, Buggs, E. Victor, Smits, Lexus and Dority. Odd that I'm part of that group...

Oh and this was released. [tweet]821472878516441088[/tweet]

Well now we know we're waiting on the honor council. At least we have a little clarity.

I also find it a bit hilarious that someone created a twitter account and tweeted the meme at them and then an hour later an official statement gets released lol

We do not know we're waiting on the honor council. We know it's an academic issue. I still think this screams eligibility via NCAA to me. There is no way they wouldn't have said something if it was Honor Council related or how they were handling it. They are handling this situation with extreme kid gloves based on the silence which leads me to believe we are waiting to hear exactly whether or not the NCAA is going to be nice, or make an example out of Jubril.

Quote from: VU2014 on January 17, 2017, 04:12:14 PM
Well now we know we're waiting on the honor council. At least we have a little clarity.

I also find it a bit hilarious that someone created a twitter account and tweeted the meme at them and then an hour later an official statement gets released lol

This has gone on long enough. Someone needs to just tell the truth. The fans who pay to see the games deserve to know the truth. The players - based on last night's comments by Jubril himself and Alec on Twitter - need to know the truth.

Jubril should be allowed to talk to the media. He's a big boy. Division I athlete. College graduate. There's too much tip-toe-ing around and it's stressing out everyone and could cost this team a trip to the NCAA Tournament because it is a HUGE distraction, regardless of how anyone wants to try to sugarcoat it.

QuoteI still think this screams eligibility via NCAA to me. There is no way they wouldn't have said something if it was Honor Council related or how they were handling it. They are handling this situation with extreme kid gloves based on the silence which leads me to believe we are waiting to hear exactly whether or not the NCAA is going to be nice, or make an example out of Jubril.

Interesting. So possibly failed a class or something, which would impair eligibility for the spring semester? Or possibly a very strange case since Jubril has already graduated and he's going for his grad degree.

I'm not sure what the NCAA guidelines are for cheating but my guess is the fact that it was the manager matters.

I repeat my concern that this wasn't a one time thing and that maybe this happened last year, while he was playing, and there is a concern about vacating wins due to ineligibility and so the university is putting on a big show of penance in hopes the NCAA goes easy on them.

So if this happened last year, and a class is forfeited, perhaps his graduation is in question.  If so, what is the status of the classes that he is taking -- if they are offered just to grad level students and not undergrads, do they count for him being eligible?  There may be more complications than we might have understood.

Sad to say, but I've mentally moved on without Jubril after our 5-1 start.  It appears we are 1/3 of the way through conference and seeing improvement (incremental at times).

I'm onto the development of Smits and Sorolla.  Anyone else done with this?

Also, this is by no means a knock to those who haven't.  It has to do with me lacking the proper patience for big business (Universities and to a greater extent The NCAA).  I deal with the Gov't and Fortune 500 customers all day long and I don't need this in my personal space.

Jubril, you rock but you cheated? 

Maybe Jubril is pursuing a degree in psychology and is currently conducting an experiment to see the effect that a senior leader who sits out a big chunk of the season would have on (a) the team and (b) the Valpo Fan Zone Forum.  He is probably taking notes on this post as we speak.

For crying out loud, it is 2017 and it should not take this long to make a decision.

Quote from: wh on January 17, 2017, 01:43:57 PMApparently then, students accused of violating the honor code have no right to or expectation of a speedy resolution, to know where the matter stands, or when it will be resolved.

A lack of swift justice has been an issue with the Honor Council in the past. Some steps have been taken, including fairly radical ones like some staff, instead of student, management. I don't know how their timetable is these days. Other reforms are under active consideration.

The NCAA is also famous, certainly, for dragging its feet.

The Honor Code -does- have a statute of limitations, right? I looked a few days ago but had trouble clarifying the issue. It may have been in a FAQ in the past - their website seems considerably slimmer than it was a few years ago.

Quote from: crusader05 on January 17, 2017, 04:39:36 PM
I'm not sure what the NCAA guidelines are for cheating but my guess is the fact that it was the manager matters.

1. Speaking of the manager, from what I read in your set of honor code stipulations an alleged HC violation must be reported within 5 academic days of when it allegedly occurs.  Taken literally, that means accusations that he may have made about helping Jubril and Max cheat at times in the past would appear to be meaningless. That should narrow the scope of the investigation considerably.
2. I have been an adjunct at another university for the past 13 years. We have a strict academic honor code similar to Valpo's - with 1 exception. There are no provisions for "telling" on other students. Professors are required to follow a set of clearly defined procedures designed to discourage cheating of any kind, and take swift action if it occurs. Here are just a few measures. On the first night of every class, instructors are required to make a brief presentation about living your life ethically and what that means. The message is that there is no such thing as academic ethics, or business ethics; there is only ethics. You never turn ethical behavior off according to where you're at, what the rules are, or who's watching. Those who operate outside the bounds of ethical behavior will never be happy, fulfilled, or experience long term personal or professional success. Then it's trust, but verify. Papers are run against plagiarism detection tools, work spaces must be completely cleared (including all technology) prior to taking tests, and instructors must remain in the classroom.

As to making students "tell" on each other as part of the control system, absolutely not. These students are one step away from entering the world of adulthood. As an employer (my day job), the last thing I want is a workforce of snitches. I want employees who build each other up, trust each other, and who value team over self. I put snitching in the same puke bucket as gossiping, bullying, blaming, and all other forms of culture-killing, self-serving behavior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypx1Stz8zN0

How can you be in good standing, and have an academic issue? 

Quote from: valpotx on January 17, 2017, 08:15:51 PM
How can you be in good standing, and have an academic issue? 

I suppose you could have an issue under investigation. Or an issue that's an issue for one body, but not for another (eg different rules for beings a student in good standing, for being "on the team", and for playing minutes.)

Quote from: VU2014 on January 17, 2017, 04:12:14 PMWell now we know we're waiting on the honor council. 

Except that we don't.

Quote from: wh on January 17, 2017, 07:43:15 PM

Quote from: crusader05 on January 17, 2017, 04:39:36 PMI'm not sure what the NCAA guidelines are for cheating but my guess is the fact that it was the manager matters.

1. Speaking of the manager, from what I read in your set of honor code

The assumption, very incorrect imho, is that the HC would need to be involved in this situation as an absolute. The HC may be part of the process or it may not be involved at all. No matter the guidelines of the HC, if a manager or anyone else stated that he wrote papers for a player, I'd hope it would be investigated no matter the timing and my assumption is that it is. Whatever the findings could involve the school and NCAA. We don't know any details and, if what we have heard is true, may run a lot deeper than anyone cares to think.

Valpo is not unique in the cone of silence. Florida had a player sitting out for a couple of months a few years ago and, while the fans and media alike were bitching up a storm there was no info provided by the NCAA, school or player. He just showed up in uniform ready to play at some point.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 17, 2017, 10:14:25 PMthere was no info provided by the NCAA, school or player. He just showed up in uniform ready to play at some point.

Is the tradition with the NCAA that when there are penalties, at least, there is some public explanation?

Quote from: covufan on January 17, 2017, 01:24:37 PM
The tweets don't bother me...yet. 

Is Jubril still actively involved with the team?  Was he on bench for the Green Bay game?

Yes.

If this situation is held up by the kangaroo court honor council, then what a joke and shame on the university. The process needs a severe overhaul if it takes this long. Assuming it is an honor council hold up, Jubrils case should be expedited and stream lined. The university is known for its basketball team and that's how a lot of people outside the Midwest know of it and often the only reason, so it's in everyone's best interest to expedite this process and hopefully he'll be cleared to play at some point this season. Also, the university higher ups can't always be trusted to get things right. Just look at what former dean jay conison did to the valpo law school and then to the Charlotte school of law. Maybe there are privacy issues with jubrils situation, but when matters are public, people scrutinize and critique so that forces others to do the right thing. On the other hand, who knows what happens behind closed doors when matters aren't made public.

It happens in a millennial world that you can be in good standing while being convicted.

Quote from: usc4valpo on January 17, 2017, 10:56:51 PM
It happens in a millennial world that you can be in good standing while being convicted.

And here I thought pre-trial detention was a long-standing American tradition.

Quote from: agibson on January 17, 2017, 11:00:14 PMAnd here I thought pre-trial detention was a long-standing American tradition.

If you catch the right war or right federal agency, it's still possible get no-trial detention!

Quote from: VU2014 on January 17, 2017, 03:34:22 PMuh... so i was just on twitter and typed in paul's twitter handle in the search bar and this came up...

This is my chance at internet fame!  Er, uh, social justice!

Quote from: JPEven on January 17, 2017, 02:02:43 PMLet Jubril Play  Untitled.png (121.77 kB, 190x254 - viewed 13 times.)

I have a high res version of this if anyone wants it for publication... couldn't figure out how to get a big file attached here....

Quote from: VU2014 on January 17, 2017, 03:34:22 PM
uh... so i was just on twitter and typed in paul's twitter handle in the search bar and this came up...

https://twitter.com/flinton_william/status/821451624979828736

some created a #LetJubrilPlay account and tweeted that meme at ML, Coach Lottich, Jubril and Alec lol

[tweet]821722586602151937[/tweet]

Vashil was left out of the initial tweet blast. Will be interesting to see if he picks up on it.

Quote from: agibson on January 17, 2017, 10:20:36 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 17, 2017, 10:14:25 PMthere was no info provided by the NCAA, school or player. He just showed up in uniform ready to play at some point.

Is the tradition with the NCAA that when there are penalties, at least, there is some public explanation?

Not in the case I referenced.

You're right agibson...I removed my previous post.

#LetJubrilPlay is growing on twitter.  Pick the meme up and share

I have heard through the grapevine that the NCAA is involved and that is what the hold up is.

This stinks of a CYA in light of everything going on in Chapel Hill. We know how much the NCAA loves to take out its anger toward big schools like Carolina by bringing down the hammer on time programs like us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: Dave_2010 on January 18, 2017, 03:46:38 PMbringing down the hammer on time programs like us.

The Valpo death penalty!

As Jerry Tarkanian once said: "The NCAA was so mad at Kentucky they gave Cleveland State two more years of probation."

Quote from: Valpo88 on January 18, 2017, 03:41:28 PM
I have heard through the grapevine that the NCAA is involved and that is what the hold up is.

If true, this changes everything - for the worse. Not to sound like an alarmist, but not only might Jubril not return, we may be talking about vacating wins and suffering huge damage to the program's image.

Look what ND went through in an eerily similar situation:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/11/23/notre-dame-appeals-ncaa-sanctions-over-academic-misconduct

Good link. 

I think the NCAA possibility was always part of the rumor mill, but increasing in prominence as the process dragged on.

The case seems even more similar to the Notre Dame case than to the East Carolina case (but student manager, allegedly, instead of trainer or tutor). And Notre Dame is appealing.

I wonder to what extent their "vacating wins" penalty hinged on the students being retroactively ineligible. As we've discussed, even a couple of F's might not make a rising senior ineligible. (I don't know what measures Valpo itself, outside the honor code, could take...) And I don't known how much it changes for a graduating student who continued to play as a grad student.

A fine and probation seem fairly reasonable.

Complicated, interesting, a little scary.

What does vacating wins actually mean? I suppose official NCAA and probably conference records get changed? Perhaps a school could decide what to do with its own internal records. I suppose of it all got resolved mid-season it could affect tournament seeding and post-season possibilities (could make you thankful for "four games in Detroit"?).

And, obviously, a considerable stain on reputation.

In the silver (zinc?) lining department, for these cases with penalties it seems that details did eventually come out.

Could it be that VU has exonerated Jubril in this issue?  That would make the most sense now that VU has made this statement:

Quote"Valparaiso University student athlete Jubril Adekoya has been sitting out games since Dec. 10, 2016, due to an academic matter. Adekoya continues to be a student in good standing at Valparaiso and a member of the basketball team."

To me their sudden breaking of the "cone of silence" (Get Smart reference shows how old I am) might indicate that they are waiting for the NCAA to respond and perhaps expected a response at the beginning of the second semester.  This VU statement could be interpreted as an "in your face" to the NCAA and makes sense of the Peters' and Adekoya's tweets not seeming to know what the problem is with the NCAA if the university has determined that "Adekoya continues to be a student in good standing at Valparaiso and a member of the basketball team."

I have now joined the ranks of the speculators, but to me this answers seems to make the most sense now that VU has made a public statement that would make them look really silly if they had to backtrack and say at some later date that Jubril was guilty.

Interesting. Could be.

But I think you -can- be a student in good standing while under investigation. Complaints, very possibly legitimate ones, about the honor council aside you are innocent until proven/decided guilty.

And you could be made to sit out, cautiously trying to avoid the wrath of the NCAA, if your university decides "not guilty", or is still investigating.

Im hoping for FW's version, of course, and a speedy acquittal and restoration to the court.

Quote from: agibson on January 19, 2017, 09:13:11 AMAnd you could be made to sit out, cautiously trying to avoid the wrath of the NCAA, if your university decides "not guilty", or is still investigating.

Agreed, I believe this is what the crux of the matter might be and that VU is being cautious. 

I was helped in coming to my conclusion by VU's use of the word "continues" in the statement, meaning to persist in an activity or process / to recommence or resume after interruption, rather than the words "is currently" which would indicate that something might still be coming in the future.

I really thought the twitter chatter the other day was going to come to something....   guess not.

It just seems like something the team would comment on and I would think that some of the bigger sports reporters would be asking now that Alec got national recognition for overtaking Bryce's records.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

Our bigs are starting to dominate play in the low post at both ends. IMO we're playing as well as a team as we did at any point last year. If Jubril comes back, we will be even better.

Can anyone confirm whether Jubril is still practicing with the team?  I figured he is but don't recall if that was ever confirmed. 

Quote from: valpolaw on January 24, 2017, 08:40:36 AM
Can anyone confirm whether Jubril is still practicing with the team?  I figured he is but don't recall if that was ever confirmed. 

He has been credited for making the bigs better, so that would imply he is practicing with them.

As frustrating as this situation has been, with the lack of actual news or acknowledgment of what has caused this situation, it could all end up being the proverbial blessing in disguise.

Why? Smits and Sorolla no longer have the "deer in headlights" look as they did against Oregon. They are solid and I don't cringe when they try to do anything.

AND, Jubril is certainly going to be well-rested when/if he is allowed to play in games again.

Jubril last played in the Kentucky game on December 5th. He has missed the last 11 games, over a third of the season. The university issued a statement that he is a student in good standing, yet he continues to sit. Our consensus thought is that the NCAA is holding this up, but none of us knows for sure.

This situation has gone from strange to bizarre. Cheating is a serious offense, especially if it were found to be systemic within an athletic program. I can only guess that the NCAA is trying to make that determination, because the amount of time that has passed is otherwise ridiculous, even by the NCAA's lazy, indifferent time standards.

If only he had punched out his girlfriend, or had a "consensual" 3-some on a road trip, or gotten drunk and led cops on a high speed chase, or was in illegal possession of a loaded firearm, or got caught shoplifting, he would have been back long ago. But, of course, in those incidents the perpetrator is also perceived as a victim worthy of a second chance (sometimes more) after a slap on the wrist. I'm not arguing against it. I'm just wondering where cheating fits in here, and why it apparently is a much worse offense.

Glad to get some responses on this thread.   I just think that a couple games you can leave everyone in the dark.   However, this long and it might be time for someone to make some noise.

Before I thought maybe Jubril wanted to keep it quiet but his recent (deleted) tweet makes that assumption flat out wrong.   At a third of the season it is time to make an announcement.

Reporters should be pushing now....   (again - I think Jubril wants it pushed or he would not have tweeted.)  Also - I rarely do this but I just researched suspensions and this is quite long when reviewing other infractions...

I think about the attention teams get when they band together for a player.   Even if he did something wrong he deserves to know the penalty and again the recent tweet sounded like he does not know and other players did not know.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

I think the reason Cheating gets such a strong response is because it undermines the the "Student-Athlete" shield that big universities and the NCAA like to use whenever issues payment, insurance, or other excessive requirements of these athletes come up. How can you claim they are students first and are there to get a quality education if your university/athletic programs are looking away/allowing cheating.

It blows a hole in the door that the bigger schools aren't all about money and prestige and we can't have that. Not saying Valpo did any of those things, it seems to be a case of students/friends making a dumb mistake from all I can tell. But, it's about protecting the bottom line at all cost.

Does anyone recall a suspension of anyone else at another school where there was absolutely no announcement made regarding what happened and how long the player would be out?  I know Sindarius Thornwell was suspended earlier this season at South Carolina and I don't think they said how long or why but it was leaked that it was for marijuana and then he returned after a short suspension.  Jubril's situation is so strange because it seems even Jubril and Alec don't understand it by their tweets.  I can still only assume he will be back at some point this year but the longer it drags on the stranger it gets.     

I don't know how much of this story was public as it unfolded:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/18522157/allonzo-trier-arizona-ruled-eligible-return-drug-test-comes-negative

A student athlete at Arizona informed in early October that he was suspended for a failed drug test. Something on the banned drug list, maybe some kind of pharmaceutical, not sure if performance enhancing or not.

He appealed "family friend gave it to me when I was recovering from car accident injuries, no one with the team, I didn't know what it was". The NCAA agreed with his story, but said all of the substance had to be gone from his bloodstream before he could play.

He was allowed to practice (and travel - but that may be an issue of team policy for non-players) with the team.

But, he sat out half the season. Maybe waiting on the appeal, not sure when that came through, then waiting for his body to eliminate all detectable amounts of the substance.

He's just preparing now to make his season debut.

Obviously these details are different than the Jubril rumors. But, there are certain similarities.

One assumes that we're not waiting on a designated, very long, Jubril suspension. But rather that we're waiting on some investigative or judicial or apellate body (NCAA? University?). And that Jubril's being held out in the mean time. Perhaps to avoid forfeiting games if he were to be ruled retroactively ineligible.

But it sure would be easier to swallow with some transparency. I dearly hope that Jubril, his family, and the team understand what's going on, and the timeline. Even if they don't like it, agree with it, or fundamentally "understand" it. Less than that would seem like a real disservice.

It's harder to say what anyone "owes" fans or alumni or similar such constituencies. Maybe somebody with the AD's ear could learn something. Maybe any fan could, if they asked directly. It seems clear that the team's decided not to say much publicly to the media - but they should of course keep asking. And presumably they continue their reporting (do you ask family members? Makes you wonder where the line is).

I think some fan advocacy could certainly be warranted, or at least seen as a kind of support for a player and team who maybe (we don't really know, without details that aren't being provided) are being treated very unfairly.

#LetJubrilPlay

I also, along with many of you, thought that something would happen after VU's announcement and the short lived social media exposure.  Why issue a STATEMENT in this situation unless you are trying to make one that counts!  It certainly seemed as if VU was applying some kind of pressure towards a decision that seemed to be out of their hands.  As I said in an earlier post, the use of the word "continues" indicated that there was a resumption after some sort of interruption. So let him resume already!!!

I know that Jubril is in a masters program so maybe this is an inaccurate assumption, but I would have thought he would seek a basketball playing career at some level after his playing days at VU were over and this suspension certainly is not helping him get the exposure he might need to pursue that endeavor.

Quote from: valpolaw on January 25, 2017, 08:42:52 AM
Does anyone recall a suspension of anyone else at another school where there was absolutely no announcement made regarding what happened and how long the player would be out?  I know Sindarius Thornwell was suspended earlier this season at South Carolina and I don't think they said how long or why but it was leaked that it was for marijuana and then he returned after a short suspension.  Jubril's situation is so strange because it seems even Jubril and Alec don't understand it by their tweets.  I can still only assume he will be back at some point this year but the longer it drags on the stranger it gets.     

Did anyone post what Alec said on twitter?  I think most of us only day Jubrils tweets because he doesn't protect them like Alec does.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 25, 2017, 11:39:22 AM

Did anyone post what Alec said on twitter?  I think most of us only day Jubrils tweets because he doesn't protect them like Alec does.

http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2718.msg78325#msg78325

Quote from: FWalum on January 25, 2017, 11:32:09 AMand the short lived social media exposure.

Keep it going! Has it been circulating on facebook?

I made small efforts at a revival on twitter during the last game. But, the VUMBB fan twitter game was soft, generally, for that game. Too many football fans, perhaps.

Quote from: valpolaw on January 25, 2017, 08:42:52 AMDoes anyone recall a suspension of anyone else at another school where there was absolutely no announcement made regarding what happened and how long the player would be out?  I know Sindarius Thornwell was suspended earlier this season at South Carolina and I don't think they said how long or why but it was leaked that it was for marijuana and then he returned after a short suspension.  Jubril's situation is so strange because it seems even Jubril and Alec don't understand it by their tweets.  I can still only assume he will be back at some point this year but the longer it drags on the stranger it gets.

Chris Walker's suspension at Florida was similar. He ended up missing 12 games but while he was sitting out there was no comment on the reason or how long from any of the parties involved. The only difference I can recall was that the school acknowledged that the NCAA was making the eligibility ruling. None of the facts of why he was suspended were made public. Gator fans thought it was academics related while it was ongoing.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24423980/florida-freshman-chris-walker-cleared-by-ncaa

That link doesn't work for me.

But, this ESPN piece
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10371527/chris-walker-florida-gators-cleared-play-ncaa
Says that the NCAA eventually released a statement with findings in the Florida case.

His college debut was delayed, apparently because of amateurism issues related to impermissible payments during his recruitment.

Let's see, cheating on a paper is an 11-game suspension and counting. What should the proper penalty be for witnessing the rape of a 16-year-old girl in your dorm and not stopping it or reporting it?  Not starting the next game?  Maybe a 1 game suspension?  The old Rob Jeter no suspension, just counseling (punitive bad/positive reinforcement good)?

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-eight-most-impressive-first-year-coaches-in-college-basketball-this-season/

Five Kansas players interviewed as witnesses after alleged rape in basketball dorm
By Chip Patterson 2h ago • 1 min read
An investigation into the alleged rape of a 16-year old girl at Kansas was addressed by coach Bill Self heading into Saturday's clash with Kentucky in the Big 12-SEC Challenge.
According to the Kansas City Star, university police have been investigating the reported rape, which took place between Dec. 17 and Dec. 18 at McCarthy Hall, which houses the men's basketball team. The police report, obtained by the Star, listed five players as witnesses: Frank Mason III, Mitch Lightfoot, Lagerald Vick, Tucker Vang and Josh Jackson. Police have not filed charges nor released information about potential suspects, citing the ongoing investigation.
The athletic department has been cooperating with investigators and Self said "if there was an issue" with any individual player "they wouldn't be playing."
"There's an alleged incident that took place there and the people were listed that are potential witnesses in some way, and that could be a plethora of ways...what a witness potentially could be," Self said Thursday on the Big 12 coaches call. "That's all we know at this point and certainly it's not going to minimize it at all because it's such a serious potential allegation that took place in McCarthy Hall, but I'm also not going to draw something from it that in no way, shape or form have we been told that is there right now."
Still even with no personnel issues going into Saturday's game at Kentucky, Self acknowledged the investigation has been a distraction for the team.
"It certainly is a distraction without question," Self said. "The Kentucky game is a big game. It's probably as big a game for fans as it is for players, but certainly players. It's a game that you circle and you look forward to playing whenever the season begins and whenever we start practicing.
"Sure, it's a distraction, I mean how could it not be? But it's not a distraction from our guys' standpoint from a film standpoint. It's a distraction because you have to hear about it and go through it."

Those poor players having to hear about it and go through it....smh... >:( >:(

And, what's the 1 concern important enough for Self to mention - how 6 of his players who got their rocks off watching the rape of a helpless young girl is negatively affecting their game prep for Kentucky.  This takes "Self"-victimization to a whole new level.

Please note that the article does not say that they actually witnessed or even knew it was happening. 'Witness" is a generic term that could include seeing the accused person or victim enter or exit the building. I agree that if players actually witnessed or knew of the event (and took no action), that there should be penalties - but that is not mentioned in the article (or any related articles).

Bill Self threw a starter off the team several years ago for doing something that was legal, but exhibited highly poor judgement and behavior (it is really seedy, so I won't describe it here). Players have been suspended for five or six games for not respecting a police officer. I would say that Self has a pretty good track record of penalizing poor behavior.

Quote from: wh on January 26, 2017, 03:19:06 PM
And, what's the 1 concern important enough for Self to mention - how 6 of his players who got their rocks off watching the rape of a helpless young girl is negatively affecting their game prep for Kentucky.  This takes "Self"-victimization to a whole new level.

wh - This is an extremely rude comment in which none of the information presented supports your offensive conclusion. I would call on the board administrator to delete this rude comment from wh.

After the Duke Lacrosse case, I'm going to withhold my judgement...

And you never know if Nancy Grace is checking out our message board !

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 06:50:34 PM

Quote from: wh on January 26, 2017, 03:19:06 PM
And, what's the 1 concern important enough for Self to mention - how 6 of his players who got their rocks off watching the rape of a helpless young girl is negatively affecting their game prep for Kentucky.  This takes "Self"-victimization to a whole new level.

wh - This is an extremely rude comment in which none of the information presented supports your offensive conclusion. I would call on the board administrator to delete this rude comment from wh.

Here's (1) vote that's not the least offended.

Quote from: agibson on January 25, 2017, 03:35:14 PMThat link doesn't work for me. But, this ESPN piece http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10371527/chris-walker-florida-gators-cleared-play-ncaa Says that the NCAA eventually released a statement with findings in the Florida case. His college debut was delayed, apparently because of amateurism issues related to impermissible payments during his recruitment.

Correct but during the suspension there were a lot of comments from Gator fans which are basically the same comments being posted on this board regarding Jubril.

Bill Self just suspended Carlton Bragg indefinitely for an issue not related to the McCarthy Hall incident. As I mentioned before, Self will take action against players when the facts and evidence support it.

There are many people who say "let Jubril play". They don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.  I encourage the parties at be, whether they are the university or the NCAA, to investigate this as fast as possible - but I doubt that the basketball program is making poor judgements.

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 09:36:16 PMThere are many people who say "let Jubril play". They don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.

To be clear, for me #LetJubrilPlay is the catchy slogan. The message is "Respect the parties involved, and finish this expeditiously."

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 09:36:16 PM
Bill Self just suspended Carlton Bragg indefinitely for an issue not related to the McCarthy Hall incident. As I mentioned before, Self will take action against players when the facts and evidence support it.

There are many people who say "let Jubril play". They don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.  I encourage the parties at be, whether they are the university or the NCAA, to investigate this as fast as possible - but I doubt that the basketball program is making poor judgements.

Would you please stop trying to lecture everyone and just go to bed or something. People are entitled to their own opinions about the Jubril situation, the Kansas situation, or anything else discussed on the board. If people want to say "free Jubril" and express frustration about the situation, they have a perfect right to do exactly that - without someone on a high horse telling them it's wrong to prejudge. The truth is that it is perfectly logical that the more time that passes the more frustration that will be expressed, especially given the reputation of both the VU Honor Council and the NCAA of slow-playing investigations. If you want to wait until all the facts are in and put your faith in "the system," go for it. But for gods sakes stop with the obnoxious moral criticism of people you disagree with.

I guess that I am not entitled to offer my opinions with my own supporting arguments if they disagree with you or calls out your vulgar arguments (please refer to your post of 3:19 PM yesterday) that are based on inappropriate and offensive extrapolations.

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 09:36:16 PMThere are many people who say "let Jubril play". They don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.  I encourage the parties at be, whether they are the university or the NCAA, to investigate this as fast as possible - but I doubt that the basketball program is making poor judgements

As one of the promulgators of the #LetJubrilPlay movement, I would say I also trust the basketball program...  I don't trust the NCAA, or, necessarily, the university to go to bat for the kid...   I am especially suspicious of an organization that has strict amateurism standards when it comes to not paying players, but treats them basically like convicted adults while taking it's time figuring out their futures.  Even in issues that might not involve a moral laps, should it take months for guys like Vashil and Carter to hear back from the group on what they get to do with the next year of their lives?

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 27, 2017, 05:45:39 AM
I guess that I am not entitled to offer my opinions with my own supporting arguments if they disagree with you or calls out your vulgar arguments (please refer to your post of 3:19 PM yesterday) that are based on inappropriate and offensive extrapolations.

Are you referring to the post where you pleaded (insert whiny voice here) "Mr. Moderator (sorry for the sexist honorific)! Mr. Moderator! Bad! Bad! Censure! Censure!"  That post? lol

From the great Tom Petty, some liberating, possibly life changing, advice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1pxLRAo4os

Enjoy your day! :)

wh - So what are you claiming that the five players at Kansas were actually doing in that post? (I strongly doubt that you have the guts and character to address that question) You just made a rude and vulgar statement about what these five players did with no justification. Of course you never let facts or published information get in the way.

Can we get back to the Jubril issue at hand here.......and could someone please make my Friday better by leaking that Jubril will be playing tonight?   :)

 :popcorn:

We're getting a little far from Jubril, and this is a little less friendly than we usually are around these parts. But maybe it's in the bounds of reasonable discussion? Some mockery, some allegations, maybe the occasional violation of the second commandment (I almost typed 2nd amendment! Let's not even get started. And maybe it was OK because he said g-d [sic] with a lowercase g.).

Quote from: JPEven on January 27, 2017, 06:44:32 AM

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 09:36:16 PMThere are many people who say "let Jubril play". They don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.  I encourage the parties at be, whether they are the university or the NCAA, to investigate this as fast as possible - but I doubt that the basketball program is making poor judgements

As one of the promulgators of the #LetJubrilPlay movement, I would say I also trust the basketball program...  I don't trust the NCAA, or, necessarily, the university to go to bat for the kid...   I am especially suspicious of an organization that has strict amateurism standards when it comes to not paying players, but treats them basically like convicted adults while taking it's time figuring out their futures.  Even in issues that might not involve a moral laps, should it take months for guys like Vashil and Carter to hear back from the group on what they get to do with the next year of their lives?

Some excellent points. No one has ever accused the NCAA of being expeditious.

Quote from: JPEven on January 27, 2017, 06:44:32 AM

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 09:36:16 PMThere are many people who say "let Jubril play". They don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.  I encourage the parties at be, whether they are the university or the NCAA, to investigate this as fast as possible - but I doubt that the basketball program is making poor judgements

As one of the promulgators of the #LetJubrilPlay movement, I would say I also trust the basketball program...  I don't trust the NCAA, or, necessarily, the university to go to bat for the kid...   I am especially suspicious of an organization that has strict amateurism standards when it comes to not paying players, but treats them basically like convicted adults while taking it's time figuring out their futures.  Even in issues that might not involve a moral laps, should it take months for guys like Vashil and Carter to hear back from the group on what they get to do with the next year of their lives?

I agree with your statements.  Who is holding the University and NCAA accountable for a timely and quality review? 

Although this is a good lesson on life for Jubril, little to nothing in life is fair.  This is painfully demonstrated in congress where they continue to vote themselves benefits.  Here in IL I still firmly believe Blago thinks he did nothing wrong 😳

Where are the checks and balances for the mighty who are meant to judge the lay person!?!?

Jubril is likely to have done something wrong (based on rumors only) so he has a role in this, but is this indiscretion so great that he misses nearly 1/3 of his athletic year?  I keep trying to tell myself it's only been 6-weeks, but we have to consider that college seasons are fleeting and I'm starting to feel bad for what originally was a victimless "crime?" (his cheating).

I was severely disappointed in Jubril, but here we are, 1/3 of his season taken from him.  I've transitioned to strongly questioning the effectiveness of the bulky NCAA.  Could this ALL have been trusted to the HL Conference as an agent of the NCAA?

Is this not a great lesson for the NCAA.  Operate this more as States (conferences) working within the Federal system (US Fed) and we have a decision already.  Harsh or other...

Didn't the NCAA essentially give Valpo and Keith Carter the middle finger over the summer?  You would think they owe us on this Jubril matter.

God Bless Jerry Tarkanian - he was always correct about the corruption of the NCAA. I am still peeved about the USC probation where the punishment was far worse than the crime.

Quote from: usc4valpo on January 27, 2017, 10:19:47 AM
God Bless Jerry Tarkanian - he was always correct about the corruption of the NCAA. I am still peeved about the USC probation where the punishment was far worse than the crime.

Do you think Brian Bosworth can sell some of his t-shirts on campus?

the 30 for 30 on the Boz was excellent and he has turned his life around for the better. We need Ed O'Bannon inthe conversation too.

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 09:36:16 PMThey don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.

This is my first comment on the Jubril situation since it started and I totally agree with this comment above. How can any of you make any judgments at all on this situation when you know nothing of the facts or evidence? The only thing any one could possibly make a legitimate comment on is the length of time it is taking to come to a conclusion and fans being left in the dark.

Quote from: bbtds on January 27, 2017, 12:04:44 PMThe only thing any one could possibly make a legitimate comment on is the length of time it is taking to come to a conclusion and fans being left in the dark.

We have a couple of other hints. It seems maybe not to be an honor council matter. Maybe not even a university matter. We've had hints that team members, even one of the named individuals, are confused by, or uncertain of, the situation. We've had hints that the team may not entirely understand the process, or at least the timeline.

So, a lot of that doesn't smell good.

But, absolutely, we should remember that there may be individuals or groups here that are guilty of some offense. And we should remember that even criminals deserve due process. Including, I should think, something like a speedy trial.

#LetJubrilPlay

Quote from: bbtds on January 27, 2017, 12:04:44 PM

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 09:36:16 PMThey don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.

This is my first comment on the Jubril situation since it started and I totally agree with this comment above. How can any of you make any judgments at all on this situation when you know nothing of the facts or evidence? The only thing any one could possibly make a legitimate comment on is the length of time it is taking to come to a conclusion and fans being left in the dark.

If we were NCAA Investigators your statement would hold water.  But since we are not directly responsible for the decision on his eligibility, academic or otherwise, forgive us for entertaining thoughts and OPINIONS.  Of which, both of you scolding this Forum is that right to an opinion.  It's respected, but I will keep looking for insight and entertainment.

Quote from: bbtds on January 27, 2017, 12:04:44 PM

Quote from: vu84v2 on January 26, 2017, 09:36:16 PMThey don't know the facts and evidence, and nor do I.

This is my first comment on the Jubril situation since it started and I totally agree with this comment above. How can any of you make any judgments at all on this situation when you know nothing of the facts or evidence? The only thing any one could possibly make a legitimate comment on is the length of time it is taking to come to a conclusion and fans being left in the dark.

If you don't know the facts surrounding the issue either you have been out of the country for a month or you don't believe chef. He has confirmed the original information provided by Valpofan1000 as follows:

uote from: ValpoFan1000 on December 16, 2016, 08:31:43 PM
Basketball manager caught stealing from baseball team, kicked off of team, comes back later and asks lottich for a letter of recommendation, lottich says no, basketball manager begins to black mail jubril and max because he did some of their work, lottich questions max and jubril. Jubril admits, max does not.


you can't be any closer to the team without being a coach or player.

Quote from: vu72 on January 27, 2017, 01:40:39 PMIf you don't know the facts surrounding the issue either you have been out of the country for a month or you don't believe chef.

I'm not trying to disparage him but chef has been incredibly wrong about statements on this board before. That is why I think it is so important not to jump to any conclusions at all about this situation. It could be that the information given to chef does not include all the facts. None of us know for sure. Everybody on this board seems to be guessing way too much. And we may never know the true facts for the reason that it is probably best for Jubril's sake that the situation would be mostly forgotten when it is concluded.

How does anyone here have any proof this statement is true?

QuoteBasketball manager caught stealing from baseball team, kicked off of team, comes back later and asks lottich for a letter of recommendation, lottich says no, basketball manager begins to black mail jubril and max because he did some of their work, lottich questions max and jubril. Jubril admits, max does not.

Where is ValpoDad when we need him?!

QuoteWhere is ValpoDad when we need him?!

I've also been wondering where the heck ValpoDad has been this season

Quote from: M on January 27, 2017, 02:19:58 PMWhere is ValpoDad when we need him?!

Shoveling the dirt for the new ARC?

One issue which I've thought of over the last few days is what the NCAA might be investigating. Student managers (I think the rumor in this case) are not permitted to provide "extra benefits" to athletes. What the definition of "extra benefits" is may be open to interpretation. I would think the academics issue would be solved fairly quickly in terms of the NCAA...they are likely to go by what the school reports. However a potential violation of NCAA rules? That can and has taken a lot of time in other situations.

Unfortunately, this could be a situation in which I tell people. If you want justice to move fast, then don't get involved with the justice system because it absolutely doesn't. Same thing with the NCAA.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 27, 2017, 04:25:40 PM
One issue which I've thought of over the last few days is what the NCAA might be investigating. Student managers (I think the rumor in this case) are not permitted to provide "extra benefits" to athletes. What the definition of "extra benefits" is may be open to interpretation. I would think the academics issue would be solved fairly quickly in terms of the NCAA...they are likely to go by what the school reports. However a potential violation of NCAA rules? That can and has taken a lot of time in other situations.

Unfortunately, this could be a situation in which I tell people. If you want justice to move fast, then don't get involved with the justice system because it absolutely doesn't. Same thing with the NCAA.

Well said.  I can't shake it that Jubril did this to himself.  The fact that he hurts his teammates has us all anxious because we want to see our best product on display.

Excited for tonight's game, just hope our bigs aren't a liability against small ball shooters...

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 27, 2017, 04:37:39 PMI can't shake it that Jubril did this to himself.  The fact that he hurts his teammates has us all anxious because we want to see our best product on display.

If academics and someone doing his work for him is in play, how does this fit into the equation:

Quotemember of the Horizon League Academic Honor Roll ... attended the NCAA Student-Athlete Leadership Forum

He's been on the League Honor Roll a few times. NCAA Student-Athlete Leadership Forum?

If the rumor is true, not a good look at all.

12 games and counting.

I'm not convinced it's not an honor code thing yet...happens during finals week, everybody back now 2 weeks or so...i don't know what a normal amount of cases would be, but I bet it jumps at finals time. Assuming they can't push Jubril to the front of the line he might still be waiting for his number to be called.

If this is a kangaroo court honor council hold up, then what a joke. I'm thinking it's the NCAA though.

Quote from: M on January 28, 2017, 08:52:20 AM
I'm not convinced it's not an honor code thing yet...happens during finals week, everybody back now 2 weeks or so...i don't know what a normal amount of cases would be, but I bet it jumps at finals time. Assuming they can't push Jubril to the front of the line he might still be waiting for his number to be called.

Long delays have sometimes been a thing historically, it's true.

Not sure the honor council stuff aome could make such a student ineligible (grad student? Simultaneous offenses? Past convictions?).

Also not sure what interaction an honor council decision could have with Athletics own decisions, or NCAA.

So, maybe. But my hunch is still NCAA.

At this point, this fits much more into the NCAA MO than any Honor Council hold up.

And I don't suppose we can expect the conference to come to our aid with our wonderful Deputy Commish and her past with the enforcement arm of the NCAA. I'm really surprised more was not made of that hire, and of the fact she's double dipping as an outside attorney.

I agree with that Valpo is waiting for a decision from the National Communists Against Athletes, which are the worst corrupt,  non for profit procrastinators of all time.

Quote from: bbtds on January 27, 2017, 01:49:22 PM

Quote from: vu72 on January 27, 2017, 01:40:39 PMIf you don't know the facts surrounding the issue either you have been out of the country for a month or you don't believe chef.

I'm not trying to disparage him but chef has been incredibly wrong about statements on this board before.

Not only does chef know what he's talking about, he knows a lot more than he ever shares on this board. The only time he chimes is to add clarity to a situation or put an end to wild speculation, which is what happened here. A poster that is not well known to us made the claim that the issue resulting in Jubril's suspension centered on a violation of the university's honor code. Following a long winded exchange during which certain posters started rudely shooting the messenger, chef finally stepped in and essentially validated his claim. I, as I always am, was grateful that he was willing to put himself out there and bring some sanity back to the discussion.

You, on the other hand, make an unsubstantiated and insulting claim that he has been has been "incredibly wrong about statements on this board before."  Your inference is that he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he has an agenda. Either way you are attacking his credibility. He deserves better - much better.

Quote from: wh on January 28, 2017, 11:51:12 PMYou, on the other hand, make an unsubstantiated and insulting claim that he has been has been "incredibly wrong about statements on this board before."  Your inference is that he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he has an agenda. Either way you are attacking his credibility. He deserves better - much better.

Why did you feel it necessary to disparage me?

All I said is that chef may not have been given all the info that relates to Jubril's situation. Why does chef have more info than Paul Oren?

And yes, chef was very wrong about a situation about a year ago or so. In that case he was not given all the info. I think your memory is a bit faulty.

Why do you jump to disparage people so quickly?

Quote from: bbtds on January 29, 2017, 05:40:14 AM

Quote from: wh on January 28, 2017, 11:51:12 PMYou, on the other hand, make an unsubstantiated and insulting claim that he has been has been "incredibly wrong about statements on this board before."  Your inference is that he either doesn't know what he's talking about or he has an agenda. Either way you are attacking his credibility. He deserves better - much better.

Why did you feel it necessary to disparage me?

All I said is that chef may not have been given all the info that relates to Jubril's situation. Why does chef have more info than Paul Oren?

And yes, chef was very wrong about a situation about a year ago or so. In that case he was not given all the info. I think your memory is a bit faulty.

Why do you jump to disparage people so quickly?

Disparage is the right word, but you're attaching it to the wrong person. You made a disparaging comment about chef to the entire board, and I defended him. I know chef. Rather than defend himself, he will simply withdraw. Rest assured that the next time we're looking for some "inside baseball," he won't be providing it.

For the record, your comment was chef has been "incredibly wrong about statements on this board before."  Now you're saying you were referring to a single allegedly inaccurate comment he made a year ago. That's a huge difference.

Maybe picking a nit here but I don't think either the original info regarding what may have occurred or what was confirmed by anyone mentioned the Honor Council. The general facts were that schoolwork was done by a manager (as claimed by the manager) of the baseball team for a player or players on the basketball team. Whether that may have eventually led to the Honor Council or not is not known and just assumed by at least some on the board. Whether the NCAA is involved is also a supposition by many on the board.

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 10:17:21 AM
Maybe picking a nit here but I don't think either the original info regarding what may have occurred or what was confirmed by anyone mentioned the Honor Council. The general facts were that schoolwork was done by a manager (as claimed by the manager) of the baseball team for a player or players on the basketball team. Whether that may have eventually led to the Honor Council or not is not known and just assumed by at least some on the board. Whether the NCAA is involved is also a supposition by many on the board.

This, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

It's natural to be frustrated with ZERO University information.  The frustration is evident with Peters and Jubril.

I'm going to ask you to deal with a web forum and the wild accusations.  This is venting time, not scolding time.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 10:17:21 AMThis, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it.

A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved.

And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

Quote from: agibson on January 29, 2017, 11:06:54 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 10:17:21 AMThis, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible. Whether anyone likes it or not this is standard operation procedure for a university and/or NCAA in a non criminal (and thus other public acknowledgement) situation. Next to none of the griping has been about a player who, if the evidence which was presented here is true and thus is being looked upon as the basis for the griping, has been a member of the Academic Honor Roll and part of a NCAA student leadership forum all while receiving unauthorized aid in doing so. Maybe that should be the discussion rather than bashing entities designed, at least in part, to vet out cheating which this would be.

Oh...wait...you mean we can't hammer the player for doing what he did because we can't confirm the source as being absolutely correct and that wouldn't be very nice to poor Jubril? Ok. But we'll use the same information which may or may not be true to hammer those entities delaying your joy including the school itself to get the cheating player back on the court as fast as we can.

This wouldn't be a case of a player barely hanging on to eligibility requirements in order to play. This would be a player who is using unauthorized aid to earn awards over doing his own work. To me, that's the more serious issue and not how fast he gets back on the court.

However, we don't know what happened and likely never will unless the real story is decidedly different.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 11:19:29 AM

Quote from: agibson on January 29, 2017, 11:06:54 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 10:17:21 AMThis, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible. Whether anyone likes it or not this is standard operation procedure for a university and/or NCAA in a non criminal (and thus other public acknowledgement) situation. Next to none of the griping has been about a player who, if the evidence which was presented here is true and thus is being looked upon as the basis for the griping, has been a member of the Academic Honor Roll and part of a NCAA student leadership forum all while receiving unauthorized aid in doing so. Maybe that should be the discussion rather than bashing entities designed, at least in part, to vet out cheating which this would be.

Oh...wait...you mean we can't hammer the player for doing what he did because we can't confirm the source as being absolutely correct and that wouldn't be very nice to poor Jubril? Ok. But we'll use the same information which may or may not be true to hammer those entities delaying your joy including the school itself to get the cheating player back on the court as fast as we can.

This wouldn't be a case of a player barely hanging on to eligibility requirements in order to play. This would be a player who is using unauthorized aid to earn awards over doing his own work. To me, that's the more serious issue and not how fast he gets back on the court.

However, we don't know what happened and likely never will unless the real story is decidedly different.

And you're making Jubril sound like a complete academic fraud when for all anyone knows he may have admitted to cheating one time on one paper in one class over 4 years.

Can anyone of us say we never ever cheated in any way academically?  Ever? Not once? 

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 11:19:29 AM

Quote from: agibson on January 29, 2017, 11:06:54 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 10:17:21 AMThis, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible.

This begins and ends with clear communication and clear defining of return time. If he was going to get a 12 game suspension from day one then make that announcement and be done with it.   Are you asking or telling us that all we want is him to be back on the court with less punishment?

Consider asking us questions, they fair much better than summarizing your view of OUR VIEW.

It becomes an anger fest...

who knows what is going on. Either there is a lack of communication or the enforcers are stalling like a Tom Smith offense.

Here is a quick example:

"You are....." (needs work)

"Are we concerned about his immediate eligibility or about a time line?  Because I'd hope we aren't concerned about receiving special treatment." (Alternate option, less accusation)

GO VU!  We win 81-69

This suspension and loss is not as bad as the 1981-82 season. I think  six players left or got kicked off that year.

Quote from: wh on January 29, 2017, 11:42:54 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 11:19:29 AM

Quote from: agibson on January 29, 2017, 11:06:54 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 10:17:21 AMThis, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible. Whether anyone likes it or not this is standard operation procedure for a university and/or NCAA in a non criminal (and thus other public acknowledgement) situation. Next to none of the griping has been about a player who, if the evidence which was presented here is true and thus is being looked upon as the basis for the griping, has been a member of the Academic Honor Roll and part of a NCAA student leadership forum all while receiving unauthorized aid in doing so. Maybe that should be the discussion rather than bashing entities designed, at least in part, to vet out cheating which this would be. Oh...wait...you mean we can't hammer the player for doing what he did because we can't confirm the source as being absolutely correct and that wouldn't be very nice to poor Jubril? Ok. But we'll use the same information which may or may not be true to hammer those entities delaying your joy including the school itself to get the cheating player back on the court as fast as we can. This wouldn't be a case of a player barely hanging on to eligibility requirements in order to play. This would be a player who is using unauthorized aid to earn awards over doing his own work. To me, that's the more serious issue and not how fast he gets back on the court. However, we don't know what happened and likely never will unless the real story is decidedly different.

And you're making Jubril sound like a complete academic fraud when for all anyone knows he may have admitted to cheating one time on one paper in one class over 4 years. Can anyone of us say we never ever cheated in any way academically?  Ever? Not once?

I guess this one is filed under the "poor Jubril" column.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 29, 2017, 11:58:28 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 11:19:29 AM

Quote from: agibson on January 29, 2017, 11:06:54 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 10:17:21 AMThis, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible.

This begins and ends with clear communication and clear defining of return time. If he was going to get a 12 game suspension from day one then make that announcement and be done with it.   Are you asking or telling us that all we want is him to be back on the court with less punishment? Consider asking us questions, they fair much better than summarizing your view of OUR VIEW. It becomes an anger fest...

What if there is still a case being investigated? Isn't there a poster valpolaw on this board? Maybe he or she could interject as to how quickly investigations can take.

None of us are owed any explanation.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 03:16:43 PM

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 29, 2017, 11:58:28 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 11:19:29 AM

Quote from: agibson on January 29, 2017, 11:06:54 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 10:17:21 AMThis, of course, hasn't prevented anyone from blasting the Honor Council, NCAA or anyone else except perhaps the (allegedly) source of the entire issue.

I don't think I've heard anyone condoning cheating. Or denying that their should be consequences for it. A little discussion of how widespread, or not, it is and has been. And how hard the book should be thrown (academically and athletically) at those involved. And, indeed, a lot of griping (at least some of it legitimate, I'd argue) about the sanctioning bodies and procedures - their speed, their transparency, their due process. Or lack thereof.

The actual griping has been all about getting the player back on to the court as fast as possible.

This begins and ends with clear communication and clear defining of return time. If he was going to get a 12 game suspension from day one then make that announcement and be done with it.   Are you asking or telling us that all we want is him to be back on the court with less punishment? Consider asking us questions, they fair much better than summarizing your view of OUR VIEW. It becomes an anger fest...

What if there is still a case being investigated? Isn't there a poster valpolaw on this board? Maybe he or she could interject as to how quickly investigations can take.

None of us are owed any explanation.

Thanks, guess I'll just have to disagree with you.  Based on your commentary I'm doubting it will be the last time.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 11:19:29 AM
Oh...wait...you mean we can't hammer the player for doing what he did because we can't confirm the source as being absolutely correct and that wouldn't be very nice to poor Jubril?

I'll try to play ball here. It's territory we've touched on before. Take the player's name out of it, invent a plausible hypothetical, give us whatever details you think are necessary, and propose an athletic punishment. Academic too, if you'd like.

Quote from: VU2624 on January 29, 2017, 03:16:43 PMWhat if there is still a case being investigated? Isn't there a poster valpolaw on this board? Maybe he or she could interject as to how quickly investigations can take.

Unfortunately, I don't have a ton to add on this subject.  I'm not very familiar with NCAA investigations--assuming that's the hold up.  Investigating facts for a civil lawsuit often doesn't take very long as long as it's not something overly complicated.  It would seem you would need to review evidence such as written documents and interview people for something like this.  I'm not sure what else there could be but who knows, strange things happen.  Sometimes locating documents and witnesses can take a little time, but I wouldn't think it would take this long.  I would hope the university, Jubril and his family, and anyone else involved are keeping the NCAA honest and pressing them to move this thing forward.  I'd hope they know what is going on, but it's troublesome to think of Jubril's and Alec's prior tweets that seemed to suggest no one understood what was going on.       

Interesting note...

According to the NCAA Meeting Calendar, there is a "D1 Committee on Academics" meeting February 2nd and 3rd. 

If the situation really is in the hands of the NCAA, perhaps Jubril's situation is on the agenda?
Maybe a resolution is coming. Fingers crossed.

Also just found this, about the "D1 Committee on Infractions".
Last meeting was in December, next meeting the second weekend in February.

From their information page:
"What is the time frame for handing down
a decision after the hearing? It typically takes
from eight to 12 weeks to write the report and
announce penalties."

If a decision was made at the December meeting, that puts next weekend (Feburary 4th) at 8 weeks since the meeting.
Otherwise, if the decision is to be made at this coming February meeting, looks like we will be out of luck for any hope of a return.

Again, all of this assuming we are waiting on an NCAA decision...

The slow wheels of justice. If this is the case, that we are waiting on the NCAA, it would be a travesty if they make their ruling at the end of March and it's not a full suspension. That would be unfair to the player if the punishment is deemed to be less than the time missed. There is no next year to serve it. However the best way not to have this situation, is not to get into it (if guilty). To future players , be smart, if you do something wrong, more than likely you're gonna get caught. Don't do it!

Indeed it is SLOW -- spoke with MLB at the UWM pre-game event.  Jubril is practicing daily with the team.  His attitude is upbeat.  Can't travel.  It is a    p  r   o   c   e   s   s.  Jubril is sitting to "anticipate" some form of action/suspension (may or may not happen) and would rather it be retroactive (time served) than in the closing part of the season.  He's in good standing.  Good GPA.  We wait......  and wait.

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 03, 2017, 10:48:01 AMIndeed it is SLOW -- spoke with MLB at the UWM pre-game event.  Jubril is practicing daily with the team.  His attitude is upbeat.  Can't travel.  It is a    p  r   o   c   e   s   s.  Jubril is sitting to "anticipate" some form of action/suspension (may or may not happen) and would rather it be retroactive (time served) than in the closing part of the season.  He's in good standing.  Good GPA.  We wait......  and wait.

So technically Jubril could play right now and could have played the last 12 games????

While talking to MLB, did you mention MVC???

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 03, 2017, 10:48:01 AMIndeed it is SLOW -- spoke with MLB at the UWM pre-game event.  Jubril is practicing daily with the team.  His attitude is upbeat.  Can't travel.  It is a    p  r   o   c   e   s   s.  Jubril is sitting to "anticipate" some form of action/suspension (may or may not happen) and would rather it be retroactive (time served) than in the closing part of the season.  He's in good standing.  Good GPA.  We wait......  and wait.

We are in to February. Only 3 home games and 5 road games remain. We have played 14 games without Jubril and won 12 of them. INCREDIBLE  :o

BUT, This thing needs to be decided and SOON! His and the teams post season hopes are now hanging in the balance.

If he does return to what extent will our success without him be reflected in the post season selection and seeding processes?

Bring him back for the tournament if they haven't heard anything.

Quote from: oklahomamick on February 03, 2017, 11:57:13 AM
While talking to MLB, did you mention MVC???

Nope.  BTW, on another item, while saying he couldn't comment on specifics, he confirmed that coaches have some latitude in dealing with  (when, mainly, not what) a suspension for training rules infractions...   if ya know what I'm sayin...

We are in to February. Only 3 home games and 5 road games remain. We have played 14 games without Jubril and won 12 of them. INCREDIBLE  :o

Half the games we lost are without him.......

Maybe he had the athletics to defend the centers of Santa Clara at the 3 point line. 

No doubt in my mind that we would have beaten both Santa Clara and Oakland. Especially in the Oakland game, whoever guarded J or D never left the low post regardless of where J or D went.  A 1-man zone. The paint never opened up from beginning to end. 

At that time we were too inexperienced to make them pay. Not the case now.

Quote from: M on February 03, 2017, 12:11:44 PM
Bring him back for the tournament if they haven't heard anything.

Have to sit J for two. Give Jubril a chance to get used to his teammates. Also give Jubril a chance to play with J?

Hope to clinch by three or four, and start the process then?

I can't verify, but word has come out that fifteen games is the number for Jubril to sit.  I guess we'll see next week.

Exciting.  But that's how rumors start

Quote from: humbleopinion on February 04, 2017, 05:49:13 AM
I can't verify, but word has come out that fifteen games is the number for Jubril to sit.  I guess we'll see next week.

If rumor becomes reality:
27-4 regular season record
  3-0 HL tournament

30-4 total record
35 RPI
19-game win streak
10-12 seed

(http://memecrunch.com/meme/12TW0/so-you-re-telling-me-there-s-a-chance/image.png)

I don't know if it has been established this is still something waiting for word from the Honor Council or there is a decision being made elsewhere, but since the Honor Council is in the title of the thread, it might be relevant that I hear the Honor Council has scheduled a number of hearings for today.

If the honor council waited all this time to have a hearing today, then what a joke.

NCAA matter at this point. 

Quote from: valpopal on February 04, 2017, 10:38:45 AM
I don't know if it has been established this is still something waiting for word from the Honor Council or there is a decision being made elsewhere, but since the Honor Council is in the title of the thread, it might be relevant that I hear the Honor Council has scheduled a number of hearings for today.

I don't believe that the Honor Council would have anything to do with determining the number of games a player would sit. This would be determined by Mark and others overseeing athletics using guidelines from precedent and "other" (read NCAA) sources.

Speculating, based on Mark's emphatic statements concerning Jubril's academic standing and GPA, that this may have nothing to do with Jubril's or Max's actual grades or academics, hence Max's quick return to the court, but maybe some other twist involving class/student interaction, helping the ex-manager, helping others....  I don't know anymore  :banghead: can we just get this over with!!!!!!

Quote from: wh on February 04, 2017, 08:32:11 AM

Quote from: humbleopinion on February 04, 2017, 05:49:13 AM
I can't verify, but word has come out that fifteen games is the number for Jubril to sit.  I guess we'll see next week.

If rumor becomes reality:
27-4 regular season record
  3-0 HL tournament

30-4 total record
35 RPI
19-game win streak
10-12 seed

Could see 15 games (self imposed) as making sense.  That's approximately 50% of the season thereabouts.  At that point a full season suspension is REALLY the only alternative and I say roll the dice and welcome back Adekoya!

If it is the 15 game suspension, what game would that put him back at?

Quote from: valpolaw on February 04, 2017, 11:32:57 AM
If it is the 15 game suspension, what game would that put him back at?

I believe today at Green Bay is the 15th game Jubril is out. If this 15-game suspension rumor were true, this would bring him back at the next home game Thursday against Cleveland State, perhaps perfect timing since another rumor holds J will be sitting out that game and the next.

It's an NCAA issue now.

The only thing Matt talked about on Todd's postgame was how terrible the officiating was, including a backhanded compliment that you have to give GB credit for never fouling despite how physical they play. He sounded very frustrated.

Matt should have  called it what it was...lack of effort...period!  Officiating had nothing to do with it.

Anyone have word on Jubril's status for tomorrow?  Hoping to see him back in action.  I think that could be a huge motivating factor for the team going into the final stretch of the season. 

https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/829446473154715649
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/829447040631451648
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/829447282223353856

"In the "Take this for what it's worth" category: Peters was wearing Adekoya's jersey today and Adekoya was wearing Peters' jersey. #HLMBB"

I mean I guess that's a way to get Jubril back into the flow of things and Alec some rest, let Jubril come back and play disguised as Alec.

Any rumors today Re:  JA and JS's return?

Quote from: valpolaw on February 08, 2017, 07:57:31 AM
Anyone have word on Jubril's status for tomorrow?  Hoping to see him back in action.  I think that could be a huge motivating factor for the team going into the final stretch of the season. 

I heard great news. Jubril will be dressed and ready to play. Whether that includes a Valpo uniform or the warm up gear is not known. I do know he won't be naked.

Oh, did you think I meant Jubril was going to play-----maybe YES, maybe no.

Glad to see the Osipoff and Oren tweets. Whether they get a "no comment" or not, questions should continue to be asked. They should also continue to be posed to Mark L.

Quote from: bbtds on February 09, 2017, 01:12:47 PM

Quote from: valpolaw on February 08, 2017, 07:57:31 AM
Anyone have word on Jubril's status for tomorrow?  Hoping to see him back in action.  I think that could be a huge motivating factor for the team going into the final stretch of the season. 

I heard great news. Jubril will be dressed and ready to play. Whether that includes a Valpo uniform or the warm up gear is not known. I do know he won't be naked.

Oh, did you think I meant Jubril was going to play-----maybe YES, maybe no.

Excellent news, if true. Even a rusty Jubril will have to be defended.  So completely sick of gimmick defenses by crap teams that we would blow out if they had to play honest defense - box-and-1, or 5 defenders guarding 4 players with J/D's man free ranging all over the place.

Quote from: wh on February 09, 2017, 01:31:19 PM

Quote from: bbtds on February 09, 2017, 01:12:47 PM

Quote from: valpolaw on February 08, 2017, 07:57:31 AM
Anyone have word on Jubril's status for tomorrow?  Hoping to see him back in action.  I think that could be a huge motivating factor for the team going into the final stretch of the season. 

I heard great news. Jubril will be dressed and ready to play. Whether that includes a Valpo uniform or the warm up gear is not known. I do know he won't be naked.

Oh, did you think I meant Jubril was going to play-----maybe YES, maybe no.

Excellent news, if true. Even a rusty Jubril will have to be defended.  So completely sick of gimmick defenses by crap teams that we would blow out if they had to play honest defense - box-and-1, or 5 defenders guarding 4 players with J/D's man free ranging all over the place.

Someone doesn't understand jokes...

Quote from: Kyle321n on February 09, 2017, 01:37:53 PM

Quote from: wh on February 09, 2017, 01:31:19 PM

Quote from: bbtds on February 09, 2017, 01:12:47 PM

Quote from: valpolaw on February 08, 2017, 07:57:31 AM
Anyone have word on Jubril's status for tomorrow?  Hoping to see him back in action.  I think that could be a huge motivating factor for the team going into the final stretch of the season. 

I heard great news. Jubril will be dressed and ready to play. Whether that includes a Valpo uniform or the warm up gear is not known. I do know he won't be naked.

Oh, did you think I meant Jubril was going to play-----maybe YES, maybe no.

Excellent news, if true. Even a rusty Jubril will have to be defended.  So completely sick of gimmick defenses by crap teams that we would blow out if they had to play honest defense - box-and-1, or 5 defenders guarding 4 players with J/D's man free ranging all over the place.

Someone doesn't understand jokes...

I understand jokes; I guess I never considered somebody trying to make a funny about Jubril returning tonight.

Effective communication = the right message, delivered at the right time, by the right person. 0-3

Quote from: wh on February 09, 2017, 02:04:05 PMI understand jokes; I guess I never considered somebody trying to make a funny about Jubril returning tonight.

Effective communication = the right message, delivered at the right time, by the right person. 0-3

Yes and when we wanted him to be funny he decided to be serious.  ::)

Quote from: wh on February 09, 2017, 02:04:05 PM

Quote from: Kyle321n on February 09, 2017, 01:37:53 PM

Quote from: wh on February 09, 2017, 01:31:19 PM

Quote from: bbtds on February 09, 2017, 01:12:47 PM

Quote from: valpolaw on February 08, 2017, 07:57:31 AM
Anyone have word on Jubril's status for tomorrow?  Hoping to see him back in action.  I think that could be a huge motivating factor for the team going into the final stretch of the season. 

I heard great news. Jubril will be dressed and ready to play. Whether that includes a Valpo uniform or the warm up gear is not known. I do know he won't be naked.

Oh, did you think I meant Jubril was going to play-----maybe YES, maybe no.

Excellent news, if true. Even a rusty Jubril will have to be defended.  So completely sick of gimmick defenses by crap teams that we would blow out if they had to play honest defense - box-and-1, or 5 defenders guarding 4 players with J/D's man free ranging all over the place.

Someone doesn't understand jokes...

I understand jokes; I guess I never considered somebody trying to make a funny about Jubril returning tonight.

Effective communication = the right message, delivered at the right time, by the right person. 0-3

Yes, I should have tweeted a hate message about a judge that didn't rule in my favor or a company that offended my daughter. That is much better communication.

If I heard correctly last night during the ESPN 3 stream, Todd mentioned that Jubril has been practicing with the starters and they were hoping the NCAA would clear him for last night but there's hope he will be playing Saturday.  That's the most I've heard on the situation outside of this board.

Thanks for mentioning that.  It sounds like the word that had been passed to me was informed rather than mere speculation.  I was pondering whether or not apologize to the forum for rumor mongering (even though I had included a disclaimer). I hope we see Jubril in uniform on Saturday.

QuoteYes, I should have tweeted a hate message about a judge that didn't rule in my favor or a company that offended my daughter. That is much better communication.

Please no politics on the basketball forum.

Ok, so it sounds like there was some type of issue that came up specific to Jubril, and that the program won't have to forfeit any wins because we took a proactive approach in holding him out while the NCAA investigated.  That sounds like a sound approach by our program, versus what other programs would have done. 

Quote from: valpotx on February 10, 2017, 10:02:25 AMOk, so it sounds like there was some type of issue that came up specific to Jubril, and that the program won't have to forfeit any wins because we took a proactive approach in holding him out while the NCAA investigated.  That sounds like a sound approach by our program, versus what other programs would have done.

But does that mean he's done?

I don't think he's done. I think that they expected him to play but that the NCAA is taking a bit longer than they thought. Leaks are coming a little more now so that leads me to think it's almost resolved

I would think that if Matt is having him practice with the first team, as Todd indicated on the broadcast last night, he would be pretty certain that Jubril's return is imminent. Lets hope it is Saturday and that he can shake the rust off before the remaining away games.
.

Paul doesn't even know what is up with Jubril. I was pretty surprise Todd brought it up during the broadcast last night.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/830090222918594562

Last night was his 16th game.  That is exactly 50% of the regular season, correct?

That would suggest to me it is Saturday or never.

There is an assumption that this is a suspension of some set number of games which may not be the case. It could be an eligibility issue in which when he returns could be up in the air until he's cleared to play.

Quote from: VU2624 on February 10, 2017, 08:01:24 PM
There is an assumption that this is a suspension of some set number of games which may not be the case. It could be an eligibility issue in which when he returns could be up in the air until he's cleared to play.

Anything's possible. Valpo may have suspended him for 16 games (or longer) and this has nothing to do with the NCAA.  The NCAA may have suspended him for 16 games (or longer). Valpo may have unilaterally suspended him "to be on the safe side," pending a decision by the NCAA. Maybe the NCAA has decided; maybe it hasn't. Maybe they have sentenced him to time served, which by coincidence happens to be 16 games. "Time served" might just as likely have been 10 games, or 8 games, or 4 games, had the NCAA been more responsive.

One thing is certain, thanks to privacy rules we will never know if negligence has played any part in this whole convoluted situation. Privacy is necessary; unfortunately, it sometimes provides cover for people who should be exposed or processes that should be changed.

Quote from: wh on February 10, 2017, 09:34:31 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on February 10, 2017, 08:01:24 PM
There is an assumption that this is a suspension of some set number of games which may not be the case. It could be an eligibility issue in which when he returns could be up in the air until he's cleared to play.

Anything's possible. Valpo may have suspended him for 16 games (or longer) and this has nothing to do with the NCAA.  The NCAA may have suspended him for 16 games (or longer). Valpo may have unilaterally suspended him "to be on the safe side," pending a decision by the NCAA. Maybe the NCAA has decided; maybe it hasn't. Maybe they have sentenced him to time served, which by coincidence happens to be 16 games. "Time served" might just as likely have been 10 games, or 8 games, or 4 games, had the NCAA been more responsive.

One thing is certain, thanks to privacy rules we will never know if negligence has played any part in this whole convoluted situation. Privacy is necessary; unfortunately, it sometimes provides cover for people who should be exposed or processes that should be changed.

I guess I am stuck in high school discipline thinking.   Suspensions at the high school level for major issues are always 25%, 50% or 100% of your season.   

Peters is wearing #23 as a tribute to Jubril tonight (2/11 vs. Youngstown), according to Todd Ickow. He also said that the NCAA is holding Jubril out.

They better have a very good reason to do so.  They would never take this long with a Power 5 team....

I'm loving the "FREE JUBRIL" Chants from the student section. Great energy tonight!

Quote from: hailcrusaders on February 11, 2017, 07:04:39 PMHe also said that the NCAA is holding Jubril out.

Was Todd any more specific? Out... Tonight? Pending investigation?

Jubril took a shot at end of 2nd-half warm-up. It was good to see, and you could tell he wished he was shooting during regulation.

Quote from: valpotx on February 11, 2017, 07:19:26 PMThey better have a very good reason to do so.  They would never take this long with a Power 5 team....

Are the Florida Gators a Power 5 team?

https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/830621609887154178
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/830621685183295488
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/830623018481221632
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/830622092848685056
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/830622322545590272
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/830623012684693504
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/830623389119283200

In the press conference it was mentioned that, "This was a very emotional weekend." Does that mean that they may have actually found out what happened but nobody is making it public yet?

Lots of Jubril talk in the post-game press conference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGPCoqFPCwk

Tried to listen to the postgame but thanks to the annoying humming sound, I could only understand bits and pieces. Would someone mind sharing what was said about Jubril. Thanks.

Quote from: wh on February 11, 2017, 11:01:00 PMTried to listen to the postgame but thanks to the annoying humming sound, I could only understand bits and pieces. Would someone mind sharing what was said about Jubril. Thanks.

All he said was " I don't have a lot of information " and did not comment any further

Quote from: VUBBFan on February 11, 2017, 11:11:36 PM

Quote from: wh on February 11, 2017, 11:01:00 PMTried to listen to the postgame but thanks to the annoying humming sound, I could only understand bits and pieces. Would someone mind sharing what was said about Jubril. Thanks.

All he said was " I don't have a lot of information " and did not comment any further

So, same as it ever was....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QuoteTried to listen to the postgame but thanks to the annoying humming sound, I could only understand bits and pieces. Would someone mind sharing what was said about Jubril. Thanks.

Basically no official update. Lots of questions if Jubril is out for the year. Lottich responded: "I don't have a lot of information." On whether Adekoya is out for year. "I don't have a lot of information."

Questions about why Alec wore 23 for Jubril: https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/830622092848685056

Coach supported his decision. It was mention by someone that, "it has been a very emotional weekend." Makes you wonder if the team and maybe a media member of two may have been tipped off that the coaches and team know the NCAA's decision but nobody is making it public yet. Also may be why Alec wore Jubril's #23 in a show of support.

There was also a question or two about the Oakland game coming up and they mentioned that they'd like to steal one at their home court like they did to us earlier in the year. Also that it's easy to get up for those games. That's pretty much the gist of it.

I told Jubril after the game that I was hoping to see him back next week. He replied he was really hoping to be back.

Sorry it autocorrected to going earlier 😕

Quote from: VUBBFan on February 11, 2017, 11:11:36 PMAll he said was " I don't have a lot of information "

I think that's what was quoted on twitter. The wording in the audio was slightly different (here I'm being lazy and not re-cueing it to quote it precisely). It seemed clear to me that he was saying that he didn't have any information to _tell the media_. Worth watching for Shane's reaction.

"I don't have a lot of information for you, sorry." Repeated a second time when ML is asked whether Jubril is out for the year. The second time, Shane, who was looking down, smirked. Make of that what you will.

Quote from: agibson on February 11, 2017, 09:23:44 PM

Quote from: hailcrusaders on February 11, 2017, 07:04:39 PMHe also said that the NCAA is holding Jubril out.

Was Todd any more specific? Out... Tonight? Pending investigation?

It was a brief mention as he was going over the starting lineups, something to the effect of "Alec is wearing number 23 tonight in honor of Jubril Adekoya, who has been held out by the NCAA" and then he moved on.

Definitely was a typo...gonna go fix that!

Quote from: hailcrusaders on February 11, 2017, 11:48:47 PMIt was a brief mention as he was going over the starting lineups, something to the effect of "Alec is wearing number 23 tonight in honor of Jubril Adekoya, who has been held out by the NCAA" and then he moved on.

Thanks. Interesting, if not so surprising, that he's willing to say that much.

Alec's dad offers his view:


(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/825867836857933827/oY61dYQv_bigger.jpg)Jeff Peters  (https://twitter.com/jpetersfamily)One has to wonder what more could have been done.  Should have been done!

   
• 
  
  (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/825867836857933827/oY61dYQv_bigger.jpg) (https://twitter.com/jpetersfamily)Jeff PetersJubril's suspension has unfairly impacted entire team and no one has suffered more physical pain and added minutes than Alec.....
• 
  
  
  (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/825867836857933827/oY61dYQv_bigger.jpg) (https://twitter.com/jpetersfamily)Jeff Peters Jubril has been a teammate and brother to Alec for four years.  Proud of my son for standing up for him and making a statement......

Quote from: wh on February 10, 2017, 09:34:31 PM
One thing is certain, thanks to privacy rules we will never know if negligence has played any part in this whole convoluted situation. Privacy is necessary; unfortunately, it sometimes provides cover for people who should be exposed or processes that should be changed.

My comment from yesterday about possible negligence seems to be supported by Alec's Dad's tweet. There is a definite stench in the air. I just don't know if it's coming from Valparaiso, IN or Indianapolis, IN. Right now, I wouldn't bet on one over the other.

If the NCAA is making the ruling, then it would suprise me that the status of this incident would be so discreet.

If it is the NCAA, I hate them even more. If Alabama or Kentucky or Duke or Notre Dame has an incident like this, they blow it off. If it is Valpo or USC, they throw the chair.

And one other started it off from Mr. Peters

[tweet]830651017125564416[/tweet]

The attitude currently coming out from the athletics department leads me to believe that it's the NCAA and they've reached the end of their leash. 

Rumors were that Jubril would be ready to play this week and then all of a sudden nope.  That, coupled with the first condoned show of frustration from the team/family members/coaches leads me to think the University is feeling pretty burned and is finally at a point where they can't hold it in anymore.

Quote from: crusader05 on February 12, 2017, 08:06:28 AMThat, coupled with the first condoned show of frustration from the team/family members/coaches leads me to think the University is feeling pretty burned and is finally at a point where they can't hold it in anymore.

Makes me wonder if the Athletics administration, the university, and the League are doing what they can/should to obtain a fair and expeditious process.

Maybe they are, and maybe there are reasons to do it quietly.

But, it makes me continue to wonder.

Quote from: crusader05 on February 12, 2017, 08:06:28 AMRumors were that Jubril would be ready to play this week and then all of a sudden nope

For a change, it seems like I read about these rumors in the newspaper first, rather than hearing them here. Where were they circulating? Unless I missed them (the GB or CSU threads I was avoiding?) did they -not- foe through the message board?

Why can't our university just make a public announcement that we are waiting on the NCAA? 

Other schools would have. 

Quote from: oklahomamick on February 12, 2017, 09:24:53 AMWhy can't our university just make a public announcement that we are waiting on the NCAA? Other schools would have. 

I agree.  Some sort of clarity would be much appreciated.  We've been left with nothing but our own speculation since he first became suspended.  This weekend didn't help any either. 

Such a draining issue for everyone. How in the hell can it drag on this long with no resolution?  It must be killing Jubril.  I forgot how close we are to Senior Night. What does he say that night?

The press conference was pretty glum, but I can't imagine that he players could know anything final yet.  There is no way in this twitter age among young guys that any final news would be shared with them last night.   

Clearly, the frustration reflected on this board has been felt fully by the team. The decision by Alec to wear Jubril's number seems to be a signal something must be done, or at least an official statement must be made, and so he chose to step forward. Obviously, Lottich has been instructed not to say anything. When asked repeatedly about Jubril, the coach somewhat artfully said twice: "I don't have a lot of information." He could have shared what information he does have, but chose not to do so. When asked if he authorized Alec to wear #23, Lottich deflected by responding, "Alec has made great decisions his entire career." Lottich's facial expressions and body language did not communicate a coach delighted with a winning game. Instead, he looked uncomfortable during the post-game conference. He is in a difficult position, especially as a first-year coach.


Add to this that Alec—the team's star player, team leader, and a future hall of fame representative—has expressed unhappiness and frustration, and as his dad commented, has been worn down and distracted by the situation. Alec even spoke out about being kept from practicing against his will last week, an odd way to phrase the fact that he was being given time to rest. Alec's dad also hinted that the rest of the team feels they have been unfairly affected. You could see Shane's smirk when Lottich gave his non-answer to the questions about Jubril. The whole situation is complicated by the end of the season as the team tries to hold first place and with the looming likelihood of Sorolla sitting out two games, not to mention the upcoming tournament.


The university has released a superficial statement a while back that Adekoya is a student in good standing and remains with the team. He apparently practices with the team and is seen encouraging his teammates from the opening introductions and throughout games. Finally, another sticky situation is approaching. If this does not get resolved, how does the team handle Senior Night, especially when the players and Coach Lottich address the crowd? How uncomfortable will it be, particularly for Jubril. Something must be done before then. I hope the university has indications Jubril will be allowed to play before then and we see him back on the court. However, if Jubril continues to be held out of games, and Lottich has been instructed to remain silent, it is up to the Athletic Director to make a definitive and comprehensive statement.


With the suspense and drama of past seasons—whether or not the team will win the regular season and bring the tournament to Valparaiso—taken away by the Horizon League, at least we have the suspense and drama of this soap opera situation.   

Does anyone have a handle on whether, if Jubril is exonerated but loses the entire remainder of the season, he would be granted another season (or half a season) of eligibility?

I specifically qualified this with exoneration.  I seriously would doubt any eligibility would be extended by the NCAA if the findings went against him. And what if his suspension, while this was all going on, was over and above what the NCAA would normally impose?  Can he ever get those lost games back?

But going back to exoneration.  If he was to be exonerated and wasn't granted an extra year, wouldn't that be grounds for a pretty hefty law suit by both VU and Jubril?

[FYI NOTE:  Jubril has appeared in 9 of 26 games so far and, if he doesn't become eligible by the end of the season, those 26 games would, at a minimum, extend to 32 games (the remaining 5 regular season games plus at least 1 game in the HL tournament)]

Not much to add to the comments above, but I think that a high class player like Alec Peters making the visible statement of wearing Jubril's jersey and Lottich (a) allowing it and (b) reinforcing that Alec has always made good decisions indicates that the basketball program (which has a strong history of ethical behavior) feels that they are being wrongly treated (likely by the NCAA).

I wonder if phone calls, emails, etc to the athletic department and/or NCAA about jubrils situation would be helpful to add some more pressure to those involved in holding out on this decision. The length of time it has gone on is ridiculous. I can't imagine why it would take that long to make the decision whether that's for or against jubril

I'm pretty sure most schools would have given the extortionist the clean job recommendation he was wanting and completed the rest internally. Not us--- that would be dishonest. So we may have taken the NCAA into completely new and unchartered territory. Have they ever before had to investigate an inner city honor student who graduated in 3 years, for his actual admission of receiving (some?) unauthorized help? There has to be something really BIG here-right?

Matt probably thought this was minor and as a precaution invited a closer look, but with the NCAA in charge I expect every non-scandalous detail to be uncovered even if it takes 12 months to clear him-us of any significant wrong doing.

My hopes for any meaningful post season success have evaporated. Shifting into "wait until next year" mode is not going to be easy.  :(

The Skara decision was difficult to take. The Carter eligibility ruling was a real head scratcher. Now this! 

I know it's different parts of the country, but does anyone remember the Bozz.  Hat would the Bozz do in this situation.....Boomer Sooner

Quote from: valpolaw on February 12, 2017, 11:58:50 AM
I wonder if phone calls, emails, etc to the athletic department and/or NCAA about jubrils situation would be helpful to add some more pressure to those involved in holding out on this decision. The length of time it has gone on is ridiculous. I can't imagine why it would take that long to make the decision whether that's for or against jubril

I think phone calls, letters, or email from stakeholders (alumni, ticket buying fans, etc.) to the Athletic Director's Office or the basketball office could be reasonable. Expressing frustration, concern for the player, etc. Wanting to know what's being done, what the plan is going forward, etc. Who they should contact if basketball or the AD has no power here.

We heard about one reasonably productive exchange, in person, with the Athletic Director. I don't know how many have tried formal communication vs. venting on social media.

They're not our elected representatives, but I think there can be some accountability here. The President's Office could also be an option.

If they want stakeholders to start a letter-writing campaign or a phone bank aimed at the NCAA, that could probably be a thing.

Sometimes I wonder if this has less to do with what Jubril did and more to do with what maybe the investigation uncovered. Like if this was a long standing arrangement that happened last year as well. That could implicate past team members and even Bryce. I kinda feel like Jubril is the sacrificial lamb in this whole thing, maybe as an attempt to pacify the NCAA for not coming down harder?

Quote from: justducky on February 12, 2017, 12:32:37 PM
I'm pretty sure most schools would have given the extortionist the clean job recommendation he was wanting and completed the rest internally. Not us--- that would be dishonest. So we may have taken the NCAA into completely new and unchartered territory. Have they ever before had to investigate an inner city honor student who graduated in 3 years, for his actual admission of receiving (some?) unauthorized help? There has to be something really BIG here-right?

Matt probably thought this was minor and as a precaution invited a closer look, but with the NCAA in charge I expect every non-scandalous detail to be uncovered even if it takes 12 months to clear him-us of any significant wrong doing.

My hopes for any meaningful post season success have evaporated. Shifting into "wait until next year" mode is not going to be easy.  :(

The Skara decision was difficult to take. The Carter eligibility ruling was a real head scratcher. Now this!

Jubril went to a Tinley Park high school (Andrew).  Unless I'm missing something, that's hardly inner city.  I know the school, have two buddies who graduated from there.

QuoteSo we may have taken the NCAA into completely new and unchartered territory. Have they ever before had to investigate an inner city honor student who graduated in 3 years, for his actual admission of receiving (some?) unauthorized help? There has to be something really BIG here-right?

Not necessarily. The NCAA is a giant unaccountable bureaucracy. NCAA does not care about the institution of Valparaiso University, its athletics department, its basketball team, its alumni or its fans, so there is no pressing issue for them to resolve the issue in any sort of timely or professional manor. The people that be over at the NCAA are more concerned about themselves and the big time $ making athletics programs that keep the cash cow humming. Plain and simple we just aren't their top priority and most likely don't particularly care if they are showing a complete lack of professionalism.

I also think there may be a reason Athletic Department and Coach Lottich don't want to publicly speak up about the situation, because they don't want to upset the NCAA by pinning the blame on them (even if it is their fault for the dragging on of the process). I could see why the AD and Coach wouldn't anger them because the whole school and athletic department needs to be in their "good graces" down the road. So the lack of a formal and more enlightening statement could be to help protect the programs future teams.

Quote from: VU2014 on February 12, 2017, 02:45:27 PM
The NCAA is a giant unaccountable bureaucracy.

I'm not sure if I buy it. Presumably the NCAA is made up of its member colleges and universities. Yes, there may well be some realization of the reality of where their revenue comes from. That it's not equally from all sports or conferences or schools.

But, committee memberships, NCAA offices, etc. are held by folks from all kinds of conferences and all kinds of schools, right?

I've not looked much at the NCAA bureaucracy. But, I bet there _is_ a mechanism for accountability.

Maybe that mechanism is really slow, or appropriately quiet. But, it would be nice to have some explanation, and to know that what can be done (by VU people, Horizon League people, etc) is being done. That our student, our player, our team, our university is getting what's fair, or at least what's due. And that the process is being examined, now and for the future.

Maybe VU feels like it's up to its eyeballs, and there is some big scandal that's been simmering here for the last weeks/months, and that vulnerability explains the speed and silence. But, it sure would be easier to swallow with some explanation.

Go read up on Mark Emmert and his history as an administrator and tell me if that gives you confidence.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2013/4/3/4176742/mark-emmert-ncaa-president-usa-today


And this is just one article.  Bottom line is this: the NCAA exists to protect the profit machines that are D I Football and the men's Basketball tournament.  Everything else simply does not matter (including the MBB regular season)

Quote from: valpolaw on February 12, 2017, 11:58:50 AMI wonder if phone calls, emails, etc to the athletic department and/or NCAA about jubrils situation would be helpful to add some more pressure to those involved in holding out on this decision.

Probably would do more good than my spirited but likely futile #LetJubrilPlay twitter campaign...


Does the torch still do a letter to the editor section?  That used to be a semi effective way to get the students worked up and, now that university finally lets them publish digitally, it might go a long way towards getting the alumni involved. 


It seemed to be a pretty good tactic when we were at the university, but, then again, my roommate was the editor of the torch, so....

Quote from: justducky on February 12, 2017, 12:32:37 PMThe Carter eligibility ruling was a real head scratcher.

Well, the Carter decision was rough, but it hinged more around SLU.  SLU refused to redshirt Keith at the time (played him for a few games and then still wouldn't even though under the minimum).  Also, recall, we brought him into games at the semester even though we knew there was a potential issue - our choice.  To get the NCAA to rule in his favor, it would require them to  exert influence over SLU.  As much as neither would help (a 2 or 3 loss team), having the NCAA dictate to a small school like SLU would, in the long run, be a disservice to us.  We got the raw end, but at least the NCAA isn't running every school's process.  It's just enforcing.


We got a better deal with Vashil because it involved an international professionalism issue.  It didn't involve another NCAA team...

To me, it's clear that coach has played Jaume anticipating the NCAA ruling that time served is enough.  Coach has probably expected he was going to be cleared to play in our last two games.  Now since that hasn't happened, we run the risk of having to lose Jaume for two critical games.

That's a big roll of the dice.  But if we take care of business against OU, this tactic could hurt less.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 06:22:02 PM
To me, it's clear that coach has played Jaume anticipating the NCAA ruling (on Jubril) that time served is enough.  Coach has probably expected he was going to be cleared to play in our last two games.  Now since that hasn't happened, we run the risk of having to lose Jaume for two critical games.

That's a big roll of the dice.  But if we take care of business against OU, this tactic could hurt less.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 06:22:02 PM
To me, it's clear that coach has played Jaume anticipating the NCAA ruling that time served is enough.  Coach has probably expected he was going to be cleared to play in our last two games.  Now since that hasn't happened, we run the risk of having to lose Jaume for two critical games.

That's a big roll of the dice.  But if we take care of business against OU, this tactic could hurt less.

The NCAA won't enforce something like that. It's a school rule and they can do whatever they want there - like last time when they sat Hammink out for a few non D1 games. Considering the circumstances (he's legally able to drink in his home country), I doubt the university pulls the rug out from under the program.

Quote from: a3uge on February 12, 2017, 06:52:15 PM

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 06:22:02 PM
To me, it's clear that coach has played Jaume anticipating the NCAA ruling that time served is enough.  Coach has probably expected he was going to be cleared to play in our last two games.  Now since that hasn't happened, we run the risk of having to lose Jaume for two critical games.

That's a big roll of the dice.  But if we take care of business against OU, this tactic could hurt less.

The NCAA won't enforce something like that. It's a school rule and they can do whatever they want there - like last time when they sat Hammink out for a few non D1 games. Considering the circumstances (he's legally able to drink in his home country), I doubt the university pulls the rug out from under the program.

Jubril was expected back in the last two games.  He is not back yet.  We anticipate a two game suspension for Jaume WHEN Jubril is cleared by the NCAA.

My point is I think Coach was anticipating the NCAA clearing Jubril.  At that point we can sit Jaume.

If we wait too long WE HAVE PROBLEMS.

Isn't the punishment for Jaume's wrong doing up to the coach? I thought the 2 game thing was maybe just Bryce's way to punish that offense.

Could someone please refresh us on exactly when we knew FOR SURE that it was in the hands of the evil empire (NCAA)?

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 07:02:01 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 12, 2017, 06:52:15 PM

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 06:22:02 PM
To me, it's clear that coach has played Jaume anticipating the NCAA ruling that time served is enough.  Coach has probably expected he was going to be cleared to play in our last two games.  Now since that hasn't happened, we run the risk of having to lose Jaume for two critical games.

That's a big roll of the dice.  But if we take care of business against OU, this tactic could hurt less.

The NCAA won't enforce something like that. It's a school rule and they can do whatever they want there - like last time when they sat Hammink out for a few non D1 games. Considering the circumstances (he's legally able to drink in his home country), I doubt the university pulls the rug out from under the program.

Jubril was expected back in the last two games.  He is not back yet.  We anticipate a two game suspension for Jaume WHEN Jubril is cleared by the NCAA.

My point is I think Coach was anticipating the NCAA clearing Jubril.  At that point we can sit Jaume.

If we wait too long WE HAVE PROBLEMS.

Nobody has to punish Jay... nor should they, outside of running extra laps at practice. This isn't an NCAA matter.

Quote from: agibson on February 12, 2017, 03:14:37 PMMaybe VU feels like it's up to its eyeballs, and there is some big scandal that's been simmering here for the last weeks/months, and that vulnerability explains the speed and silence.

In no way have I gotten a sense that Matt, Alec or Jubril felt his admitted transgression (of whatever) should have open up a detailed and lengthy investigation into the entire program. To the contrary all seem mystified that there is as yet no resolution. As a betting man my money would be wagered that not MUCH (SYSTEMIC CHEATING  :o :o vs unauthorized assistance) happened in the first place and that Matt found out and reported every major detail. Any takers? Or do you want better odds? If I die broke, oh well, because it sounds like the percentage play.

A former Valpo coach adds his opinion:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/746004816850104320/HHOp2WON_bigger.jpg)Will_Phipps (https://twitter.com/Will_Phipps) Jubril owned his mistake. This ridiculous unfair punishment does not follow similar precedent. @ValpoU (https://twitter.com/ValpoU) & @ncaa (https://twitter.com/NCAA) embarrassing themselves badly

Jeff Peters @jpetersfamily
Jubril's suspension has unfairly impacted entire team and no one has suffered more physical pain and added minutes than Alec.....

   
• (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/746004816850104320/HHOp2WON_bigger.jpg) (https://twitter.com/Will_Phipps)Will_PhippsSometimes players have to stand up and make a statement, even when @ValpoBasketball (https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball) admin @ValpoU (https://twitter.com/ValpoU) admin fails them. #freejubril (https://twitter.com/hashtag/freejubril?src=hash)

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 12, 2017, 07:09:48 PM
Could someone please refresh us on exactly when we knew FOR SURE that it was in the hands of the evil empire (NCAA)?

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 12, 2017, 11:26:52 AM
Does anyone have a handle on whether, if Jubril is exonerated but loses the entire remainder of the season, he would be granted another season (or half a season) of eligibility?

I specifically qualified this with exoneration.  I seriously would doubt any eligibility would be extended by the NCAA if the findings went against him. And what if his suspension, while this was all going on, was over and above what the NCAA would normally impose?  Can he ever get those lost games back?

But going back to exoneration.  If he was to be exonerated and wasn't granted an extra year, wouldn't that be grounds for a pretty hefty law suit by both VU and Jubril?

[FYI NOTE:  Jubril has appeared in 9 of 26 games so far and, if he doesn't become eligible by the end of the season, those 26 games would, at a minimum, extend to 32 games (the remaining 5 regular season games plus at least 1 game in the HL tournament)]

Sorry for being a pissant on this reposting of my thoughts,  but these two questions need to be answered in this string so that we can discuss this knowledgeably and continue an effective dialogue going forward. Otherwise we are being swept further into a whirlpool of speculation.  If the answers exist, please just cite them and we are done.

Quote from: a3uge on February 12, 2017, 07:16:01 PM

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 07:02:01 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 12, 2017, 06:52:15 PM

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 06:22:02 PM
To me, it's clear that coach has played Jaume anticipating the NCAA ruling that time served is enough.  Coach has probably expected he was going to be cleared to play in our last two games.  Now since that hasn't happened, we run the risk of having to lose Jaume for two critical games.

That's a big roll of the dice.  But if we take care of business against OU, this tactic could hurt less.

The NCAA won't enforce something like that. It's a school rule and they can do whatever they want there - like last time when they sat Hammink out for a few non D1 games. Considering the circumstances (he's legally able to drink in his home country), I doubt the university pulls the rug out from under the program.

Jubril was expected back in the last two games.  He is not back yet.  We anticipate a two game suspension for Jaume WHEN Jubril is cleared by the NCAA.

My point is I think Coach was anticipating the NCAA clearing Jubril.  At that point we can sit Jaume.

If we wait too long WE HAVE PROBLEMS.

Nobody has to punish Jay... nor should they, outside of running extra laps at practice. This isn't an NCAA matter.

I could not agree more. The administration needs to stop piling nonsense on top of nonsense and move on.

Quote from: wh on February 12, 2017, 08:01:48 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 12, 2017, 07:16:01 PM

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 07:02:01 PM

Quote from: a3uge on February 12, 2017, 06:52:15 PM

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 06:22:02 PM
To me, it's clear that coach has played Jaume anticipating the NCAA ruling that time served is enough.  Coach has probably expected he was going to be cleared to play in our last two games.  Now since that hasn't happened, we run the risk of having to lose Jaume for two critical games.

That's a big roll of the dice.  But if we take care of business against OU, this tactic could hurt less.

The NCAA won't enforce something like that. It's a school rule and they can do whatever they want there - like last time when they sat Hammink out for a few non D1 games. Considering the circumstances (he's legally able to drink in his home country), I doubt the university pulls the rug out from under the program.

Jubril was expected back in the last two games.  He is not back yet.  We anticipate a two game suspension for Jaume WHEN Jubril is cleared by the NCAA.

My point is I think Coach was anticipating the NCAA clearing Jubril.  At that point we can sit Jaume.

If we wait too long WE HAVE PROBLEMS.

Nobody has to punish Jay... nor should they, outside of running extra laps at practice. This isn't an NCAA matter.

I could not agree more. The administration needs to stop piling nonsense on top of nonsense and move on.

I'm AMAZED at how easily the general feeling has changed.  I expect a minimum of a 1 game suspension and so did many of you.

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 12, 2017, 07:58:23 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 12, 2017, 07:09:48 PM
Could someone please refresh us on exactly when we knew FOR SURE that it was in the hands of the evil empire (NCAA)?

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 12, 2017, 11:26:52 AM
Does anyone have a handle on whether, if Jubril is exonerated but loses the entire remainder of the season, he would be granted another season (or half a season) of eligibility?

I specifically qualified this with exoneration.  I seriously would doubt any eligibility would be extended by the NCAA if the findings went against him. And what if his suspension, while this was all going on, was over and above what the NCAA would normally impose?  Can he ever get those lost games back?

But going back to exoneration.  If he was to be exonerated and wasn't granted an extra year, wouldn't that be grounds for a pretty hefty law suit by both VU and Jubril?

[FYI NOTE:  Jubril has appeared in 9 of 26 games so far and, if he doesn't become eligible by the end of the season, those 26 games would, at a minimum, extend to 32 games (the remaining 5 regular season games plus at least 1 game in the HL tournament)]

Sorry for being a pissant on this reposting of my thoughts,  but these two questions need to be answered in this string so that we can discuss this knowledgeably and continue an effective dialogue going forward. Otherwise we are being swept further into a whirlpool of speculation.  If the answers exist, please just cite them and we are done.

No.
No.
No
No
And all of us pissants welcome a fellow pissant's questions, comments and opinions.  ;) The only thing we lack around here is good answers and we are all waiting for the GODS to appear above so we can ponder their wisdom.

Blind justice is wrong, but we aren't alike to other universities.  We recruit young men who are skilled in both bball and being good christians.  I'm not active in the Lutheran church, but VU attracted me and many others as a place or morals.

I'm a giant pessimist and probably a bit vulgar at times, but I completely disagree with sweeping his punishment under the rug.  And I don't think coach will do that. 

Hope Jubril is back at OU and that soon thereafter it's a 1-2 suspension for Jaume.  All respect Jaume, but you live by the rules of the country you're in.  I did it in Japan for three years while classmates did not, they were punished justly to Japans laws.  One was even deported for marijuana use.

GREAT future for Jaume, but it's a learning experience to receive just punishment for breaking the law.  No matter how small.

Quote from: M on February 12, 2017, 07:05:16 PM
Isn't the punishment for Jaume's wrong doing up to the coach? I thought the 2 game thing was maybe just Bryce's way to punish that offense.

I believe the timing is at coach's discretion (don't know if he can stretch it next season) but that the punishment is not.

VU rules
http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/valpoathletics/25DB7CED-4D9B-4222-9BBD-C8C98E935FD0/2016-17_SA_Handbook.pdf
Not sure if they're madanted/expected by the NCAA.

I'll let someone else quote chapter and verse, but because of the criminal charge, unless he disputes it (pleads not guilty, more or less?), it's two games.

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 12, 2017, 07:09:48 PM
Could someone please refresh us on exactly when we knew FOR SURE that it was in the hands of the evil empire (NCAA)?

For Jubril, I think that we don't know officially.

But people increasingly close to the program have been letting it slip out in increasingly public ways.

The tweets by Will Phipps cast more shade on how those in charge are handling this situation.

As far as Jay, he likely had 2-3 beers, big deal. I agree with the prior comment made about making Jay run laps or something to punish him in lieu of punishing the team for what he did by holding him out.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 08:31:06 PM
Blind justice is wrong, but we aren't alike to other universities.  We recruit young men who are skilled in both bball and being good christians.  I'm not active in the Lutheran church, but VU attracted me and many others as a place or morals.

I'm a giant pessimist and probably a bit vulgar at times, but I completely disagree with sweeping his punishment under the rug.  And I don't think coach will do that. 

Hope Jubril is back at OU and that soon thereafter it's a 1-2 suspension for Jaume.  All respect Jaume, but you live by the rules of the country you're in.  I did it in Japan for three years while classmates did not, they were punished justly to Japans laws.  One was even deported for marijuana use.

GREAT future for Jaume, but it's a learning experience to receive just punishment for breaking the law.  No matter how small.

There's a US law that states a player has to miss 1-2 basketball games if found guilty of underage drinking?

Quote from: agibson on February 12, 2017, 08:35:21 PM

Quote from: M on February 12, 2017, 07:05:16 PM
Isn't the punishment for Jaume's wrong doing up to the coach? I thought the 2 game thing was maybe just Bryce's way to punish that offense.

I believe the timing is at coach's discretion (don't know if he can stretch it next season) but that the punishment is not.

VU rules
http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/valpoathletics/25DB7CED-4D9B-4222-9BBD-C8C98E935FD0/2016-17_SA_Handbook.pdf (http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/valpoathletics/25DB7CED-4D9B-4222-9BBD-C8C98E935FD0/2016-17_SA_Handbook.pdf)
Not sure if they're madanted/expected by the NCAA.

I'll let someone else quote chapter and verse, but because of the criminal charge, unless he disputes it (pleads not guilty, more or less?), it's two games.

So, I guess the smart thing would be to plead "not guilty" and have a lawyer request a court date after the season, then change the plea to "guilty" at that time, and serve the 2-game suspension during a couple of meaningless games at the start of next season.

Quote from: valpolaw on February 12, 2017, 08:38:54 PM
The tweets by Will Phipps cast more shade on how those in charge are handling this situation.

As far as Jay, he likely had 2-3 beers, big deal. I agree with the prior comment made about making Jay run laps or something to punish him in lieu of punishing the team for what he did by holding him out.

What's that telling our other players that are fully aware of Shane and Adekoya's past suspensions?  2-3 beers becomes 6-8.  You get the point, but I don't think I'm going to change your minds.

Rules are rules, I was an habitual line stepper myself....but learned my lessons through repercussions.

I'd love for him to not start the rest of the season and be done with it.  But I don't think that does as intended.

P.S.  That punishment approach, at times, is the only thing that makes sense where Jaume isn't our starter.

Seems like the whole Peters family is getting in on it. Good for them.

For example
[tweet]830898715045019658[/tweet]

And #freeJubril has some legs on Twitter. Could we get an updated meme? Maybe a fresh picture or two? His sister's might not be bad.

PLEASE DO NOT MIX Jay's issue with Jubril's. If you must discuss Jay's issue create a freaking string. This is getting so convoluted that it is hard to follow posters' logic and interpretations.

Next:  It would be correct to assume that apparently no one knows for sure that the NCAA is even involved.  This

So this string is going nutz on unsupported speculation.

Does anyone have credible evidence on anything?

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 12, 2017, 09:24:24 PM

Next:  It would be correct to assume that apparently no one knows for sure that the NCAA is even involved.

So this string is going nutz on unsupported speculation.

Does anyone have credible evidence on anything?

I have heard from someone who knows that the NCAA is responsible for the current delay in reinstating Jubril.

Good enough for me Pal. Now what other eveidence do we have?

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 12, 2017, 09:39:08 PM
Good enough for me Pal. Now what other eveidence do we have?

What else are you looking for?

It seems that the #FreeJubrill social media campaign is not enough to push the NCAA in clearing Jubril.  Perhaps it is time for the REAL media to get involved.  Perhaps an investigative reporter from the Tribune media family (or others) should call the NCAA and ask for information on this and other actions taken against student athletes. I would tell them that a story is being investigated as to why it appears that some athletes are treated differently than others based on NCAA revenue or some such thing. I have seen such comparative articles in the past concerning other athletes and programs.  I am sure that bad publicity by a major media outlet couldn't hurt.  Do we know anyone of consequence that could start such and inquiry??

Quote from: agibson on February 12, 2017, 08:35:21 PM

Quote from: M on February 12, 2017, 07:05:16 PMIsn't the punishment for Jaume's wrong doing up to the coach? I thought the 2 game thing was maybe just Bryce's way to punish that offense.

I believe the timing is at coach's discretion (don't know if he can stretch it next season) but that the punishment is not. VU rules http://cdn.streamlinetechnologies.com/valpoathletics/25DB7CED-4D9B-4222-9BBD-C8C98E935FD0/2016-17_SA_Handbook.pdf Not sure if they're madanted/expected by the NCAA. I'll let someone else quote chapter and verse, but because of the criminal charge, unless he disputes it (pleads not guilty, more or less?), it's two games.

Technically he has a court appearance scheduled or to be scheduled. He could wait until that appearance before either pleading guilty, not guilty or going into a diversion program which will dismiss the charges ultimately. Assuming he does the latter to avoid the conviction, that is treated by the school (and any other school I'm aware of) as an admission of guilt and would catch the suspension. So, unless he's already decided to go through the diversion and has formally filed those papers, there's no punishment which needs to be handed out at the moment.

Quote from: FWalum on February 12, 2017, 10:19:24 PMIt seems that the #FreeJubrill social media campaign is not enough to push the NCAA in clearing Jubril.  Perhaps it is time for the REAL media to get involved.  Perhaps an investigative reporter from the Tribune media family (or others) should call the NCAA and ask for information on this and other actions taken against student athletes. I would tell them that a story is being investigated as to why it appears that some athletes are treated differently than others based on NCAA revenue or some such thing. I have seen such comparative articles in the past concerning other athletes and programs.  I am sure that bad publicity by a major media outlet couldn't hurt.  Do we know anyone of consequence that could start such and inquiry??

The short, quick, accurate answer is that they won't comment on it.

[tweet]831003147007045634[/tweet]

In addition to Matt's body language from the post game referred to above, I wonder if Alec is sending some non-verbal messages of his own:

1. Notice when Alec is congratulated by Matt, ml and mh (41 second mark) for setting the scoring record, he completely ignores mh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSflhFHafA4

2. Subsequently, the university president gets cropped from the receiving line in this picture marking the moment:

http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2016-17/16055/peters-claims-league-player-of-the-week-honor/#.WKEzizxOLYU

3. And then, he gets edited out of another video (1:31 mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7KqppjbZfs

4. Finally, in the same video Matt introduces Alec and reaches out to hand Alec the mic to speak. Instead of coming forward and addressing the crowd, Alec just stands there. As someone who was there, I can attest that it was an awkward moment, to say the least. My daughter commented at the time that it made Alec look arrogant. In retrospect, I don't think arrogance had anything to do with it. I think Alec is thoroughly pissed about the way the whole Jubril situation has been handled (mishandled) internally.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-youngstown-state-valparaiso-st-0213-20170212-story.html

Wearing Jubril Adekoya's No. 23, Alec Peters helps Valparaiso down Youngstown

By: Michael Osipoff
Post-Tribune

"The magic number Saturday night was 23.

Alec Peters wore the jersey No. 23 of fellow senior Jubril Adekoya instead of his usual No. 25.

Senior swingman Shane Hammink scored 23 points in Valparaiso's 82-72 Horizon League win over Youngstown State at the Athletics-Recreation Center.

Peters had 22 points, lamenting a missed free throw in the final minute that would have also given him 23."

....

Quote from: wh on February 12, 2017, 11:00:20 PM
In addition to Matt's body language from the post game referred to above, I wonder if Alec is sending a non-verbal message of his own relative to the tweet from Alec's dad wondering if "more could have should have been done:"

Notice when Alec is congratulated by Matt, ml and mh (41 second mark) for setting the scoring record, he completely ignores mh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSflhFHafA4

Subsequently, the university president gets cropped from the receiving line in this picture marking the moment:

http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2016-17/16055/peters-claims-league-player-of-the-week-honor/#.WKEzizxOLYU

And then, he gets edited out of another video (1:31 mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7KqppjbZfs

(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/536/illuminati-conspiracy.jpg)

Quote from: a3uge on February 13, 2017, 06:40:42 AM

Quote from: wh on February 12, 2017, 11:00:20 PM
In addition to Matt's body language from the post game referred to above, I wonder if Alec is sending a non-verbal message of his own relative to the tweet from Alec's dad wondering if "more could have should have been done:"

Notice when Alec is congratulated by Matt, ml and mh (41 second mark) for setting the scoring record, he completely ignores mh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSflhFHafA4

Subsequently, the university president gets cropped from the receiving line in this picture marking the moment:

http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2016-17/16055/peters-claims-league-player-of-the-week-honor/#.WKEzizxOLYU

And then, he gets edited out of another video (1:31 mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7KqppjbZfs

(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/006/536/illuminati-conspiracy.jpg)

The poison came in liquid
She was naked all the time
And no one could explain it
It was all between the lines
And I don't seem to trust anyone no more
It could be faith I'm just not sure

Echo, Tom Petty

Quote from: wh on February 12, 2017, 11:00:20 PM1. Notice when Alec is congratulated by Matt, ml and mh (41 second mark) for setting the scoring record, he completely ignores mh:

I noticed that during the game and thought that maybe Alec was thinking about what he was going to do with the ball in his hands and thinking he wanted to get on with the game but as I rewatched it Alec truly does snub the president of the university. There does seem to be something there that the Peters' family perceive as not being handled as well as it could have been.

No doubt about it the Prez was dissed by AP. Maybe not the coolest thing to do - but what the hell AP and MH know more than we'll ever know about this situation. Time to go to the Franklin and have a beer.  :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:Have to consider what my $$ pledge will be this year. 

Yep. Hard to miss. It's all speculation except your perceptive note that AP not feeling really close to the top guy. At a minimum AP has to perceive VU did not exhaust its options somehow or push strongly enough to expedite this "university matter."   

I don't know Alec Peters at all apart from what I've seen of him on the basketball court.  I also think drawing conclusions on his character/loyalty/etc. based on him coming back for another year when he could have gone--literally--anywhere he wanted to is completely reasonable.  He is the kind of man that Valpo should try to turn every 18 year old freshman boy into.

Therefore, if he did in fact spurn the President, the problem is with the President, not Alec Peters.

That exchange (or lack there of) between AP and MH was surprising but I'm not sure I buy it. My thoughts are that AP wasn't exactly thinking in the moment. Get the record and the honoring must have been one of those out of body experience where sometimes you just aren't there in the moment.

Maybe there is some sort of beef but I'm not sure we can extrapolate that from this awkward 2 second exchange.

I'm not sure what the President of a small private University could do to apply pressure to NCAA and I don't think the gag-order of speaking about the Jubril matter is coming from President Heckler. I'm thinking gag-order is coming from the AD since that is more in his lane of expertise.

Years down the road we will get the answers from an episode of Union Street Hoops.

Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2017, 10:06:19 AM
Years down the road we will get the answers from an episode of Union Street Hoops.

Only 4 more episodes until we get to the Jubril episode.

QuoteYears down the road we will get the answers from an episode of Union Street Hoops.

Years down the road we will still be asking why can't we get a new ARC  ;)

Re:  Alec Peters demeanor ...Did anyone ever think that perhaps he was totally consumed by the game and it's immediate importance?  Knowing AP's dedication to the game, work ethic and positive and humble attitude, I don't think all of the "hoopla" mattered too much  to him.  It seems like too many people are trying to make something out of nothing.  For those of you who have your undies in a knot over the JA situation,  leave it at that.  It is not Alec's problem.  Let's let our "horse" rest

Quote from: valpopal on February 12, 2017, 10:57:17 PM
[tweet]831003147007045634[/tweet]

Everyone on this board with a Twitter account should be retweeting all of these tweets related to the Jubrill situation.

Quote from: valpo64 on February 13, 2017, 10:52:17 AMRe:  Alec Peters demeanor ...Did anyone ever think that perhaps he was totally consumed by the game and it's immediate importance?  Knowing AP's dedication to the game, work ethic and positive and humble attitude, I don't think all of the "hoopla" mattered too much  to him.

This was 100% how I interpreted his actions and demeanor at the time. "Let's get back to the game."

AMEN!   "Let It Be"!

I'm going to step in and comment on this perceived snub. Spend any time around Peters and you realize how important his teammates and winning are to him. Without trying to talk too much out of school here, Alec inferred to me before the UIC game that he DID NOT WANT the game to be stopped when he broke the scoring record. It's an honor he enjoys to the point that he'll look back on it once his career is over. He was given the ball and went through a handshake line with Lottich, LaBarbera and President Heckler. By the time he got to Heckler, his father had moved into position to catch the ball that Alec was throwing him. Alec simply wanted to get back to the timeout and get back to playing.

I understand it looks like a tasty conspiracy. Trust me, I once watched a practice and had a little conspiracy theory about who would play based on the kind of shoes the players were wearing. You can get any little moment to say whatever you want it to say if you try hard enough.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the "snub" is being blown way out of proportion here. The kid wanted to get back on the court.

I just retweeted about a dozen tweets.  My problem is I only have two followers... :(

Quote from: vu72 on February 13, 2017, 11:20:21 AM
I just retweeted about a dozen tweets.  My problem is I only have two followers... :(

When I did the same thing I went from 14 to 15 followers!  Lets see if Tom Davis picks up on this.   :o

Are you sure Tom Davis even knows who Alec Peters is?  He doesn't go to Butler, you know(lol).  Can't wait for TD's comments on Butler's loss.

QuoteWhen I did the same thing I went from 14 to 15 followers!  Lets see if Tom Davis picks up on this.   :o

Nobody tweet at Tom Davis about it. That prick would write some hack piece about the University and just try and smear Jubril and the program.

That man is an embarrassment to real sport journalists and reporters out there.

Quote from: agibson on February 13, 2017, 11:12:35 AM

Quote from: valpo64 on February 13, 2017, 10:52:17 AMRe:  Alec Peters demeanor ...Did anyone ever think that perhaps he was totally consumed by the game and it's immediate importance?  Knowing AP's dedication to the game, work ethic and positive and humble attitude, I don't think all of the "hoopla" mattered too much  to him.

This was 100% how I interpreted his actions and demeanor at the time. "Let's get back to the game."

Indeed. If you look at the video closely, you see that he shook MH's hand.

Quote from: FWalum on February 13, 2017, 11:39:09 AM

Quote from: vu72 on February 13, 2017, 11:20:21 AM
I just retweeted about a dozen tweets.  My problem is I only have two followers... :(

When I did the same thing I went from 14 to 15 followers!

Even if not many see your retweet on their timeline, it'll add to the statistics on the original post(s). Keep it up! And post on your own! Include #FreeJubril, or that old #LetJubrilPlay chestnut and others will pick them up (and then, hey, if you'd like more followers maybe that gets you more followers).

Quote from: agibson on February 13, 2017, 12:08:57 PM

Quote from: FWalum on February 13, 2017, 11:39:09 AM

Quote from: vu72 on February 13, 2017, 11:20:21 AMI just retweeted about a dozen tweets.  My problem is I only have two followers... :(

When I did the same thing I went from 14 to 15 followers!

Even if not many see your retweet on their timeline, it'll add to the statistics on the original post(s). Keep it up! And post on your own! Include #FreeJubril, or that old #LetJubrilPlay chestnut and others will pick them up (and then, hey, if you'd like more followers maybe that gets you more followers).

And you can direct the tweeter to certain people. 

Too much drama. Men, suit em' up and play the game.

Quote from: valpo64 on February 13, 2017, 10:52:17 AM
Re:  Alec Peters demeanor ...Did anyone ever think that perhaps he was totally consumed by the game and it's immediate importance?  Knowing AP's dedication to the game, work ethic and positive and humble attitude, I don't think all of the "hoopla" mattered too much  to him.  It seems like too many people are trying to make something out of nothing.  For those of you who have your undies in a knot over the JA situation,  leave it at that.  It is not Alec's problem.  Let's let our "horse" rest

Au contraire, the absence of Jubril from the team directly effects Alec in that his and the team's chances of winning the HL tournament and a berth in the NCAA tournament are greatly, I repeat, greatly effected.

Quote from: Pgmado on February 13, 2017, 11:19:19 AM
I'm going to step in and comment on this perceived snub. Spend any time around Peters and you realize how important his teammates and winning are to him. Without trying to talk too much out of school here, Alec inferred to me before the UIC game that he DID NOT WANT the game to be stopped when he broke the scoring record. It's an honor he enjoys to the point that he'll look back on it once his career is over. He was given the ball and went through a handshake line with Lottich, LaBarbera and President Heckler. By the time he got to Heckler, his father had moved into position to catch the ball that Alec was throwing him. Alec simply wanted to get back to the timeout and get back to playing.

I understand it looks like a tasty conspiracy. Trust me, I once watched a practice and had a little conspiracy theory about who would play based on the kind of shoes the players were wearing. You can get any little moment to say whatever you want it to say if you try hard enough.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the "snub" is being blown way out of proportion here. The kid wanted to get back on the court.

Okay, I rewatched the video and it does seem that Alec gets distracted by his father moving forward in the stands just as he is approached by President Heckler for a handshake. I'm sure if he had to do it over again Alec would have gone back and acknowledged the university president if people felt he "snubbed" him in that short moment. 

Was there a second handshake?  It has come down to this?  Maybe there's a Zapruder video?

GMAB - AP has an ATTITUDE and he can't hide it. Not saying he shouldn't have the ATTITUDE - good for him. Diss MH  :clap: wear #23  :clap: snarl @ press conference  :clap: double doubles  :clap: FT  :clap: keep winning  :clap: FREE JUBRIL :thewave:

Some of you guys are amazing!  On a topic of Jubril, all you talk about is Alec.  What's your problem?

Quote from: valpo64 on February 14, 2017, 10:59:47 AM
Some of you guys are amazing!  On a topic of Jubril, all you talk about is Alec.  What's your problem?

Be proactive, make a new thread.  Last I checked, the more productive way is to lead the cattle to water rather than chastise and do nothing.

Any thoughts on the possibility of seeing Jubril play Friday?  Seems like it may never happen at this point but who knows. 

I'm sure we are all hoping to see him play Friday.  But we probably won't have any kind of answer until game time. It sure does seem like everyone with the program has been anticipating his return at any moment.

But I would guess that even after a decision is made, the team will keep it quiet until the moment he steps onto the floor in uniform.

VALPO64 -How can you NOT talk about AP when he wears #23 ???  GET REAL and discuss how #25 & #23 have upset the Team :-X  Could have been a great year.

The real question is :  What does AP have to do with Jubril's problems.  I still don't understand how Alec's name comes up when discussing Jubril's situation.  Oh, by-the-way, the best thing that has happened to Valpo B-ball over the last 4 years has been ALEC PETERS!    His support for Jubril reflects the general feeling of the team.  It seems that the frustration of the team and all of us here regarding JB's situation is taking over .  I too am upset and frustrated, but I don't think it is fair that some keep bringing up AP's name when discussing the JB fiasco.

I would think that Alec wants his name brought up to help get Jubril's situation some extra press if possible. If his actions, wearing 23, help get the NCAA's rear end moving on this then I'm all for it.

Alec's sister posted up a pic in instagram of Alec posing with Jubril. A couple of very interesting comments below that picture.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 14, 2017, 08:05:15 PM
Alec's sister posted up a pic in instagram of Alec posing with Jubril. A couple of very interesting comments below that picture.

Glad you got to read that.  Good of you to let us know that you know something.

Wow. This suspension has turned this board salty.

Link?

QuoteAlec's sister posted up a pic in instagram of Alec posing with Jubril. A couple of very interesting comments below that picture.

QuoteLink?

I believe this is the Instagram post you were referring to? It's actually his Mom's Instagram post, not his sisters...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQZxjhVB-Sb/?taken-by=4apeters

Comments in the post:

vle10758, Wonderful picture

krieg_timPlus, Jubril and his mom are always at the games. Regardless of what's decided, nobody can ever take away their loyalty and dedication. Loyalty and dedication aren't measured by years of eligibility, and the #NCAA doesn't have the power to take them away - #freejubril

jpetersfamily (Alec's Dad), Unfortunately the way this was handled has promoted people to consider the direction of dishonesty first. Tell the truth=don't play rest of season. Cover it up=play the rest of your season. Sad days for college athletics.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 14, 2017, 09:51:32 PM
Wow. This suspension has turned this board salty.

Just would have thought you included the very comments you reference is all.

Was that a shot at Max? 😱

Sounds like a shot at the NCAA.

We know Valpo self-reported so yeah. It really sounds like the team and maybe administration is feeling pretty burned for being responsible and trying to handle this appropriately while other schools hide way worse  :censored: and still get to play.

Valpo wants to play big time NCAABB and wants National recognition. Can not be done when the playing field isn't level. Either be happy as the mid-major that Valpo is or change their way of handling situations like this.  :twocents:

Quote from: Valpo Joe on February 15, 2017, 08:34:09 AM
Valpo wants to play big time NCAABB and wants National recognition. Can not be done when the playing field isn't level. Either be happy as the mid-major that Valpo is or change their way of handling situations like this.  :twocents:

And tell us how you would "change their way of handling situations like this"??  Enquiring minds want to know!  Perhaps hiding facts or lowering academic standards would help us to the next level!  Works well for Duke, Stanford and Georgetown!

Quote from: M on February 15, 2017, 06:33:22 AM
Was that a shot at Max? 😱

No. The NCAA and the lucrative business of men's college basketball.  Max is fine.

And, BTW, great Instagram post in all respects.

Quote from: valpolaw on February 14, 2017, 01:39:15 PM
Any thoughts on the possibility of seeing Jubril play Friday?  Seems like it may never happen at this point but who knows. 

Please try and stay on topic.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/831980392521617408

[tweet]831981076734173192[/tweet]

So it's now "distractions" and "the situation". I guess euphemisms are a step beyond "no comment".

IMO Alec's Dad's comment "...one has to wonder if something more could have should have been done" is clearly an indictment of Valparaiso University, not the NCAA. Not even a close call. It's not a comment someone would make about the decision itself. It's what someone would say about their attorneys doing a lousy job after they were found guilty.

Not that anyone would care, but this has me steaming mad. If not for this whole cluster fxxx, we would likely be 24-2, ranked in the Top 25, #2 Mid Major, undefeated in conference, sitting 9th or 10th in bracketology, bigger crowds, national recognition, Alec with better stats, not beat up physically and emotionally, and even higher in the mock drafts, and higher level recruits considering Valpo instead of somewhere else.

This is a transitional year for this program. It could have been a great one, one for the ages, and one that elevated Valpo basketball to heights never seen before. Instead, we're more like a fighter who's run out of gas and hanging on for dear life until the bell rings, hoping we'll win by decision. No matter what happens, this season will never be what it could have been or should have been.

I'm not a an alum, and as much as I love Valpo basketball and even raised my family to love it, I don't have blind allegiance to Valparaiso University. If this administration has mishandled this situation in any way at all, on top of the blantant disregard it has had to commit finances to bring the ARC into the 21st century, they will have committed the unpardonable sin. Again, not that anyone will care about one family pulling its support, but Im simply stating how completely egregious this situation has become to me. 

Quote from: wh on February 15, 2017, 06:52:25 PM
IMO Alec's Dad's comment "...one has to wonder if something more could have should have been done" is clearly an indictment of Valparaiso University, not the NCAA. Not even a close call. It's not a comment someone would make about the decision itself. It's what someone would say about their attorneys doing a lousy job after they were found guilty.

Not that anyone would care, but this has me steaming mad. If not for this whole cluster fxxx, we would likely be 24-2, ranked in the Top 25, #2 Mid Major, undefeated in conference, sitting 9th or 10th in bracketology, bigger crowds, national recognition, Alec with better stats, not beat up physically and emotionally, and even higher in the mock drafts, and higher level recruits considering Valpo instead of somewhere else.

This is a transitional year for this program. It could have been a great one, one for the ages, and one that elevated Valpo basketball to heights never seen before. Instead, we're more like a fighter who's run out of gas and hanging on for dear life until the bell rings, hoping we'll win by decision. No matter what happens, this season will never be what it could have been or should have been.

I'm not a an alum, and as much as I love Valpo basketball and even raised my family to love it, I don't have blind allegiance to Valparaiso University. If this administration has mishandled this situation in any way at all, on top of the blantant disregard it has had to commit finances to bring the ARC into the 21st century, they will have committed the unpardonable sin. Again, not that anyone will care about one family pulling its support, but Im simply stating how completely egregious this situation has become to me.

(http://i.imgur.com/91sn32Q.jpg)

I actually think wh has a point. Again, I'm going to wait until the facts come out, but maybe what this athletic department needs is some reasonable antagonistic push back.  We have a great program, but substandard facilities and declining attendance need to be addressed. While I think our AD has done a pretty good job, this board seems to be too quick to give him a pass for the many shortcomings we have that keep us from getting to the next level. I believe when a University asks for your money, as the Crusader Fund and Forever Valpo campaign have, they owe in return some reasonable responses to what's going on. Again, were owed nothing yet, but if Jubril is done for good and this team yet again misses the dance, I think we should at least be told if the current admin really did everything they could to get 23 back on the court.

Quote from: wh on February 15, 2017, 06:52:25 PM
IMO Alec's Dad's comment "...one has to wonder if something more could have should have been done" is clearly an indictment of Valparaiso University, not the NCAA. Not even a close call. It's not a comment someone would make about the decision itself. It's what someone would say about their attorneys doing a lousy job after they were found guilty.

Not that anyone would care, but this has me steaming mad. If not for this whole cluster fxxx, we would likely be 24-2, ranked in the Top 25, #2 Mid Major, undefeated in conference, sitting 9th or 10th in bracketology, bigger crowds, national recognition, Alec with better stats, not beat up physically and emotionally, and even higher in the mock drafts, and higher level recruits considering Valpo instead of somewhere else.

This is a transitional year for this program. It could have been a great one, one for the ages, and one that elevated Valpo basketball to heights never seen before. Instead, we're more like a fighter who's run out of gas and hanging on for dear life until the bell rings, hoping we'll win by decision. No matter what happens, this season will never be what it could have been or should have been.

I'm not a an alum, and as much as I love Valpo basketball and even raised my family to love it, I don't have blind allegiance to Valparaiso University. If this administration has mishandled this situation in any way at all, on top of the blantant disregard it has had to commit finances to bring the ARC into the 21st century, they will have committed the unpardonable sin. Again, not that anyone will care about one family pulling its support, but Im simply stating how completely egregious this situation has become to me.

Think a lot of us share the same concerns.  Well presented imo.  But I'd add that irregardless we'd be without Jubril for Santa Clara and Oakland, pertaining to the timing of the infraction.

I'm more disappointed in last years team than this years team.  That was a HUGE whiff for the depth and talent onboard.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 15, 2017, 07:51:44 PM
I actually think wh has a point. Again, I'm going to wait until the facts come out, but maybe what this athletic department needs is some reasonable antagonistic push back.  We have a great program, but substandard facilities and declining attendance need to be addressed. While I think our AD has done a pretty good job, this board seems to be too quick to give him a pass for the many shortcomings we have that keep us from getting to the next level. I believe when a University asks for your money, as the Crusader Fund and Forever Valpo campaign have, they owe in return some reasonable responses to what's going on. Again, were owed nothing yet, but if Jubril is done for good and this team yet again misses the dance, I think we should at least be told if the current admin really did everything they could to get 23 back on the court.

Saying we'd be a top 25 team with 2 losses is ridiculous. There's some serious mental gymnastics going on. We lost to Oakland and Green Bay by significant amounts. I love Jubril, but he has a PER of 10.6, and has a turnover ratio of .7 to 2.4. Expecting the team to go undefeated in conference is absolutely ludicrous - blaming the administration for not doing so the year after losing their coach, with or without their ability to influence the Jubril decision is just a poor take. But yeah, maybe if we had nicer bathrooms or concessions in the ARC, Valpo would be 26-0.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 15, 2017, 07:51:44 PM
I actually think wh has a point. Again, I'm going to wait until the facts come out, but maybe what this athletic department needs is some reasonable antagonistic push back.  We have a great program, but substandard facilities and declining attendance need to be addressed. While I think our AD has done a pretty good job, this board seems to be too quick to give him a pass for the many shortcomings we have that keep us from getting to the next level. I believe when a University asks for your money, as the Crusader Fund and Forever Valpo campaign have, they owe in return some reasonable responses to what's going on. Again, were owed nothing yet, but if Jubril is done for good and this team yet again misses the dance, I think we should at least be told if the current admin really did everything they could to get 23 back on the court.

Along with seemingly the majority on this board, I agree that the university seems to be letting the basketball program fall by the wayside in more ways than one, unfortunately. So it definitely does not seem out of the realm of possibilities that the university dropped the ball on this one.


I really feel like someone at some point will tell their side of the story. From what happened to start this fiasco, all the way up to what the university did to address matters and how long the NCAA sat on their hands. Whether it be the university, a player's family member, another player, or Jubril himself, I don't see this being kept under wraps forever.  Someone with much more firsthand knowledge of the situation will eventually spill the beans.  Right now they understandably have to keep quiet until things are resolved, but once the NCAA and the university are no longer lingering overhead, someone will talk.  Pretty sure the NCAA has no legal standing to uphold any sort of gag order once players graduate and move on in life. 

Quote from: jsher3141 on February 15, 2017, 08:20:05 PM

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 15, 2017, 07:51:44 PM
I actually think wh has a point. Again, I'm going to wait until the facts come out, but maybe what this athletic department needs is some reasonable antagonistic push back.  We have a great program, but substandard facilities and declining attendance need to be addressed. While I think our AD has done a pretty good job, this board seems to be too quick to give him a pass for the many shortcomings we have that keep us from getting to the next level. I believe when a University asks for your money, as the Crusader Fund and Forever Valpo campaign have, they owe in return some reasonable responses to what's going on. Again, were owed nothing yet, but if Jubril is done for good and this team yet again misses the dance, I think we should at least be told if the current admin really did everything they could to get 23 back on the court.

Along with seemingly the majority on this board, I agree that the university seems to be letting the basketball program fall by the wayside in more ways than one, unfortunately. So it definitely does not seem out of the realm of possibilities that the university dropped the ball on this one.


I really feel like someone at some point will tell their side of the story. From what happened to start this fiasco, all the way up to what the university did to address matters and how long the NCAA sat on their hands. Whether it be the university, a player's family member, another player, or Jubril himself, I don't see this being kept under wraps forever.  Someone with much more firsthand knowledge of the situation will eventually spill the beans.  Right now they understandably have to keep quiet until things are resolved, but once the NCAA and the university are no longer lingering overhead, someone will talk.  Pretty sure the NCAA has no legal standing to uphold any sort of gag order once players graduate and move on in life. 

Speculation, and BIG TIME speculation is running wild tonight.  We really have zero idea of what is being done and I doubt Alec's dad has full knowledge of what is going on as well.

As for the Administration not caring about the program--nonsense.  You don't pay your coach apx.$500,000 and make him the highest paid coach in the conference and the highest paid employee at Valpo because you don't care.  Expecting the University to ignor needed STEM projects, dorms built in the 60's and a battle to compete for top flight students, while schools like St. Joes are going under, to build a new or remodeled ARC is also self centered nonsense proposed by people with aging bladders who can't quite make it to the can.  Come to a Northwestern game sometime.  They have a somewhat larger endowment and have a basketball arena where you sit on wooden benches and wait in long lines for a beverage.  Get over it.

We need some prescriptions for the mood lately.  Is the Valentines Day hangover a real thing!?!?

Love to have Jubril back.  Did it to himself.  Don't have a whole lot of sympathy for stupid.  That being said, Alec and his family are making a point.  There isn't much more to it, coach also needs to manage his minutes NOW so he can tapper him for the conference tournament.  If I recall Alec entered the NIT with a mindset, but some of that was rest and getting his legs underneath him.

And you can go talk to someone else to yell at us for including a name other than Alec here.  I got me a father already.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 15, 2017, 09:09:26 PMIs the Valentines Day hangover a real thing!?!?

Only if you took her out for dinner and cocktails.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 15, 2017, 08:05:31 PMIf not for this whole cluster fxxx, we would likely be 24-2, ranked in the Top 25, #2 Mid Major, undefeated in conference, sitting 9th or 10th in bracketology,

I'll go with 22.5-3.5, Top-50, #4 mid-major, a bracketology 11 seed with a growing at-large buzz.

Quote from: vu72 on February 15, 2017, 08:55:35 PMSpeculation, and BIG TIME speculation is running wild tonight.

Yes, and I apologize for my pessimism because I know it is contagious. Things might still go our way but I am no longer willing to bet on it.

Approx $500,000 salary for Lottich?  Is there a source?  How do we know he's even the best paid in HL?  Curiosity has me, the rest of your statement was hard to disagree with.

Quote from: vu72 on February 15, 2017, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: jsher3141 on February 15, 2017, 08:20:05 PM

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 15, 2017, 07:51:44 PMI actually think wh has a point. Again, I'm going to wait until the facts come out, but maybe what this athletic department needs is some reasonable antagonistic push back.  We have a great program, but substandard facilities and declining attendance need to be addressed. While I think our AD has done a pretty good job, this board seems to be too quick to give him a pass for the many shortcomings we have that keep us from getting to the next level. I believe when a University asks for your money, as the Crusader Fund and Forever Valpo campaign have, they owe in return some reasonable responses to what's going on. Again, were owed nothing yet, but if Jubril is done for good and this team yet again misses the dance, I think we should at least be told if the current admin really did everything they could to get 23 back on the court.

Along with seemingly the majority on this board, I agree that the university seems to be letting the basketball program fall by the wayside in more ways than one, unfortunately. So it definitely does not seem out of the realm of possibilities that the university dropped the ball on this one. I really feel like someone at some point will tell their side of the story. From what happened to start this fiasco, all the way up to what the university did to address matters and how long the NCAA sat on their hands. Whether it be the university, a player's family member, another player, or Jubril himself, I don't see this being kept under wraps forever.  Someone with much more firsthand knowledge of the situation will eventually spill the beans.  Right now they understandably have to keep quiet until things are resolved, but once the NCAA and the university are no longer lingering overhead, someone will talk.  Pretty sure the NCAA has no legal standing to uphold any sort of gag order once players graduate and move on in life.

Speculation, and BIG TIME speculation is running wild tonight.  We really have zero idea of what is being done and I doubt Alec's dad has full knowledge of what is going on as well. As for the Administration not caring about the program--nonsense.  You don't pay your coach apx.$500,000 and make him the highest paid coach in the conference and the highest paid employee at Valpo because you don't care.  Expecting the University to ignor needed STEM projects, dorms built in the 60's and a battle to compete for top flight students, while schools like St. Joes are going under, to build a new or remodeled ARC is also self centered nonsense proposed by people with aging bladders who can't quite make it to the can.  Come to a Northwestern game sometime.  They have a somewhat larger endowment and have a basketball arena where you sit on wooden benches and wait in long lines for a beverage.  Get over it.

I completely agree STEM programs and the dorms are in need of funding as well.  But I'm also not screaming "10,000 seat ARC!!!" Just saying some things like lighting, restrooms, and concessions could use an update.  Don't see the harm in that.

And where is this $500k figure coming from? Bryce made $377,464 total including benefits his last year.  Hard to believe Matt is making Bryce money right out of the gate... I'd have to bet it's closer to $250,000. If that.

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 15, 2017, 10:05:09 PM
Approx $500,000 salary for Lottich?  Is there a source?  How do we know he's even the best paid in HL?  Curiosity has me, the rest of your statement was hard to disagree with.

Forgive my lack of clarity.  I doubt very much Matt is being paid 500k.  He is a first year head coach.  Bryce was being paid at that level and I presume Matt will be as well if he has the sucess that Bryce had.

Quote from: vu72 on February 15, 2017, 08:55:35 PM
Speculation, and BIG TIME speculation is running wild tonight.  We really have zero idea of what is being done and I doubt Alec's dad has full knowledge of what is going on as well.

As for the Administration not caring about the program--nonsense.  You don't pay your coach apx.$500,000 and make him the highest paid coach in the conference and the highest paid employee at Valpo because you don't care.  Expecting the University to ignor needed STEM projects, dorms built in the 60's and a battle to compete for top flight students, while schools like St. Joes are going under, to build a new or remodeled ARC is also self centered nonsense proposed by people with aging bladders who can't quite make it to the can. Come to a Northwestern game sometime.  They have a somewhat larger endowment and have a basketball arena where you sit on wooden benches and wait in long lines for a beverage.  Get over it.

Why the personal attack, '72?  I expected that from the snotty kid with the cloud cartoon, but not from someone who is my senior, who took the time to look me up at a game a few years ago, and who has communicated with me via private mail.  Oh, well.

As to the issue, I know you're a fierce defender of anything and everything Valpo, and I get that. I'm a pretty fierce defender of 2 alma maters that I have my name forever attached to.

That said, and in all due respect, you don't know anything yourself. You could be right.  On the other hand, I can't think of one discussion that we've ever had on this board where you didn't vehemently defend every decision made and action taken by Valpo's administration and Board, past and present. So there's that.

As to questioning what Alec's Dad knows, hopefully you would be willing to admit that he knows about a thousand times more than you or I. And if you're willing to go that far, you might even consider that assuming that Alec is close with his Dad (and I believe he is), his Dad probably knows everything Alec knows. And since Alec and Jubril are best friends, we might expect that Alec knows everything Jubril knows, thus through osmosis Alec's Dad knows everything both Alec and Jubril know. He's starting to sound like a pretty credible source, wouldn't you say?

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 15, 2017, 07:51:44 PMI actually think wh has a point. Again, I'm going to wait until the facts come out, but maybe what this athletic department needs is some reasonable antagonistic push back. 

I think this is reasonable.

wh, I certainly hope you stick around.

But, if somehow this fiasco results in you taking a Valpo hiatus, I'd encourage you not to go quietly. Call up the AD's office, or at least send them a note, and let them know what you're thinking.

And, as I've said before, if you feel passionately about this, even if you're staying on the bandwagon, I think you could very reasonably contact them directly and ask them questions, or let them know what you're thinking. Fans are not the only stakeholders here. But, fans are constituents too.

It might be worth reviewing what Has been witnessed.

Max and Jubril both sat for a game.
Max came back to play; Jubril did not.
Jubril continued to practice with the team and attend the games.
Last week Jubril practiced with the starting team.
Last week Jubril's dad started to post on the board after quite a hiatus.
At Thursday's game Alec donned Jubril's jersey and was lauded by others including his coach while Jubril continued to sit on the bench.
Social media posts from those close to the situation reflected frustration.
Jubril continues to practice with the team and sit on the bench.

This is all information that is not based on leasks or hearsay.  Did I fail to list anything that is relevant? I think we can figure what's been happening from what we have seen. 

Quote from: wh on February 15, 2017, 10:22:25 PM

Quote from: vu72 on February 15, 2017, 08:55:35 PM
Speculation, and BIG TIME speculation is running wild tonight.  We really have zero idea of what is being done and I doubt Alec's dad has full knowledge of what is going on as well.

As for the Administration not caring about the program--nonsense.  You don't pay your coach apx.$500,000 and make him the highest paid coach in the conference and the highest paid employee at Valpo because you don't care.  Expecting the University to ignor needed STEM projects, dorms built in the 60's and a battle to compete for top flight students, while schools like St. Joes are going under, to build a new or remodeled ARC is also self centered nonsense proposed by people with aging bladders who can't quite make it to the can. Come to a Northwestern game sometime.  They have a somewhat larger endowment and have a basketball arena where you sit on wooden benches and wait in long lines for a beverage.  Get over it.

Why the personal attack, '72?  I expected that from the snotty kid with the cloud cartoon, but not from someone who is my senior, who took the time to look me up at a game a few years ago, and who has communicated with me via private mail.  Oh, well.

As to the issue, I know you're a fierce defender of anything and everything Valpo, and I get that. I'm a pretty fierce defender of 2 alma maters that I have my name forever attached to.

That said, and in all due respect, you don't know anything yourself. You could be right.  On the other hand, I can't think of one discussion that we've ever had on this board where you didn't vehemently defend every decision made and action taken by Valpo's administration and Board, past and present. So there's that.

As to questioning what Alec's Dad knows, hopefully you would be willing to admit that he knows about a thousand times more than you or I. And if you're willing to go that far, you might even consider that assuming that Alec is close with his Dad (and I believe he is), his Dad probably knows everything Alec knows. And since Alec and Jubril are best friends, we might expect that Alec knows everything Jubril knows, thus through osmosis Alec's Dad knows everything both Alec and Jubril know. He's starting to sound like a pretty credible source, wouldn't you say?

I apologize.  My comment was uncalled for and no doubt the result of the same frustrations expressed by others in different ways.  My guess is the Mark and Matt or Kim Smith or Jamie Anthony or even Darron Farha or Mark Biermann may be in negotiations with the NCAA and if so, certainly aren't telling the players about those discussions. Again, more speculation, this time on my part.

Sorry.   :-X

The whole problem here is that this is all speculation. I would also be extremely upset with VU if they didn't do everything in their power to get Jubril back out there. The basketball team gets the university so much publicity and that's really the only reason people outside of Indiana know of it.  My other thought is that if the ball was really dropped somewhere in the handling of this situation, then why don't those close to the situation let the public know what happened. As far as I know, there's nothing stopping Alec's dad or Jubril's dad from letting it out, but maybe I'm missing something. Once the season is over and he sat out the remainder of the season, there's no going back.

If they're confident that the amount of time he has missed is sufficient for whatever his "crimes" were why not just play him? Really hope to hear he's in uniform for tomorrow night.   >:( :-X :'(

Quote from: vu72 on February 16, 2017, 07:24:12 AM

Quote from: wh on February 15, 2017, 10:22:25 PM

Quote from: vu72 on February 15, 2017, 08:55:35 PM
Speculation, and BIG TIME speculation is running wild tonight.  We really have zero idea of what is being done and I doubt Alec's dad has full knowledge of what is going on as well.

As for the Administration not caring about the program--nonsense.  You don't pay your coach apx.$500,000 and make him the highest paid coach in the conference and the highest paid employee at Valpo because you don't care.  Expecting the University to ignor needed STEM projects, dorms built in the 60's and a battle to compete for top flight students, while schools like St. Joes are going under, to build a new or remodeled ARC is also self centered nonsense proposed by people with aging bladders who can't quite make it to the can. Come to a Northwestern game sometime.  They have a somewhat larger endowment and have a basketball arena where you sit on wooden benches and wait in long lines for a beverage.  Get over it.

Why the personal attack, '72?  I expected that from the snotty kid with the cloud cartoon, but not from someone who is my senior, who took the time to look me up at a game a few years ago, and who has communicated with me via private mail.  Oh, well.

As to the issue, I know you're a fierce defender of anything and everything Valpo, and I get that. I'm a pretty fierce defender of 2 alma maters that I have my name forever attached to.

That said, and in all due respect, you don't know anything yourself. You could be right.  On the other hand, I can't think of one discussion that we've ever had on this board where you didn't vehemently defend every decision made and action taken by Valpo's administration and Board, past and present. So there's that.

As to questioning what Alec's Dad knows, hopefully you would be willing to admit that he knows about a thousand times more than you or I. And if you're willing to go that far, you might even consider that assuming that Alec is close with his Dad (and I believe he is), his Dad probably knows everything Alec knows. And since Alec and Jubril are best friends, we might expect that Alec knows everything Jubril knows, thus through osmosis Alec's Dad knows everything both Alec and Jubril know. He's starting to sound like a pretty credible source, wouldn't you say?

I apologize.  My comment was uncalled for and no doubt the result of the same frustrations expressed by others in different ways.  My guess is the Mark and Matt or Kim Smith or Jamie Anthony or even Darron Farha or Mark Biermann may be in negotiations with the NCAA and if so, certainly aren't telling the players about those discussions. Again, more speculation, this time on my part.

Sorry.   :-X

Apology accepted.  Disagreement forgotten. :)

Quote from: humbleopinion on February 16, 2017, 06:34:51 AM
It might be worth reviewing what Has been witnessed.

Max and Jubril both sat for a game.
Max came back to play; Jubril did not.
Jubril continued to practice with the team and attend the games.
Last week Jubril practiced with the starting team.
Last week Jubril's dad started to post on the board after quite a hiatus.
At Thursday's game Alec donned Jubril's jersey and was lauded by others including his coach while Jubril continued to sit on the bench.
Social media posts from those close to the situation reflected frustration.
Jubril continues to practice with the team and sit on the bench.

This is all information that is not based on leasks or hearsay.  Did I fail to list anything that is relevant? I think we can figure what's been happening from what we have seen. 

I would have included VU's statement about Jubril being a student in good standing.

Another "has been witnessed":

A certain iconic gold wig disappeared from the student section (and, incidentally?, the student section has had some weak showings).

Someone should give the AD or President Heckler a call on this Jubril issue and tell them our collective concerns.  Probably someone more senior on the board  ;D and see what they say......or maybe a ton of us should call and show our concern.  Someone earlier referred to fans as the constituents so this would be akin to calling our local congressman aka AD/University President.

Union Street Hoops podcast talks about the Jubril situation right in the beginning. They talk the Alec wear #23 jersey, etc.

Paul mentioned if Jubril doesn't play in tomorrows game then he is likely not coming back this year.

http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_a98c31fc-f487-11e6-9342-77a5e2be6cc9.html

Yeah that statement didn't seem to be anything more then a hot take...not sure where he gets off saying that.

Quote from: VU2014 on February 16, 2017, 03:58:14 PM
Union Street Hoops podcast talks about the Jubril situation right in the beginning. They talk the Alec wear #23 jersey, etc.

Paul mentioned if Jubril doesn't play in tomorrows game then he is likely not coming back this year.

http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_a98c31fc-f487-11e6-9342-77a5e2be6cc9.html

Quote from: valpolaw on February 16, 2017, 11:44:55 AM
Someone should give the AD or President Heckler a call on this Jubril issue and tell them our collective concerns.  Probably someone more senior on the board ;D and see what they say......or maybe a ton of us should call and show our concern.  Someone earlier referred to fans as the constituents so this would be akin to calling our local congressman aka AD/University President.

As I resemble that remark, I'll do it via an email which I will post.  President Heckler is very good about responding to concerned alumni. Wish me (and Jubril) luck.

Here ya go:

Dear Mark,

As I'm sure you are aware, Jubril  Adekoya has been in a state of limbo for quite some time.  As a member of the Valpo Fan Zone Forum, I volunteered to contact to you express our concern for this young man as his suspension has now reached 17 games with the remaining games of his Valpo career now fleeting  bye.

I'm not sure if you have ever stopped by the Forum but you should take the time to see the many issues discussed.  Truly "all things Valpo".  At the present time there are 682 members and just today 63 different people logged on, many or more likely all to check on news concerned Jubril's status.

There have been reports of academic issues.  Whatever the cause of the suspension, it would seem that he has paid a severe price in the form of missing 17 games knowing the added pressure he has put on his teammates because of his not playing.

At this time no fan of Valpo has any idea what is going on.  Frustration has set in as the season is coming to a close with much on the line for the team and Valpo given the national exposure gained should we make the NCAA tournament.

No doubt there is much going on behind the scene.  Some information, if allowed, would go a long way toward keeping the fan base informed.  At present, lack of information leads only to speculation or worse, misinformation.

As always I very much appreciate all you are doing for Valpo and wish you all the best,

Quote from: vu72 on February 16, 2017, 05:03:42 PM
Here ya go:

Dear Mark,

As I'm sure you are aware, Jubril  Adekoya has been in a state of limbo for quite some time.  As a member of the Valpo Fan Zone Forum, I volunteered to contact to you express our concern for this young man as his suspension has now reached 17 games with the remaining games of his Valpo career now fleeting  bye.

I'm not sure if you have ever stopped by the Forum but you should take the time to see the many issues discussed.  Truly "all things Valpo".  At the present time there are 682 members and just today 63 different people logged on, many or more likely all to check on news concerned Jubril's status.

There have been reports of academic issues.  Whatever the cause of the suspension, it would seem that he has paid a severe price in the form of missing 17 games knowing the added pressure he has put on his teammates because of his not playing.

At this time no fan of Valpo has any idea what is going on.  Frustration has set in as the season is coming to a close with much on the line for the team and Valpo given the national exposure gained should we make the NCAA tournament.

No doubt there is much going on behind the scene.  Some information, if allowed, would go a long way toward keeping the fan base informed.  At present, lack of information leads only to speculation or worse, misinformation.

As always I very much appreciate all you are doing for Valpo and wish you all the best,

Excellent!

https://twitter.com/4apeters/status/832077662927478784

Quote from: vu72 on February 16, 2017, 05:03:42 PMHere ya go: Dear Mark, As I'm sure you are aware, Jubril  Adekoya has been in a state of limbo for quite some time.  As a member of the Valpo Fan Zone Forum, I volunteered to contact to you express our concern for this young man as his suspension has now reached 17 games with the remaining games of his Valpo career now fleeting  bye. I'm not sure if you have ever stopped by the Forum but you should take the time to see the many issues discussed.  Truly "all things Valpo".  At the present time there are 682 members and just today 63 different people logged on, many or more likely all to check on news concerned Jubril's status. There have been reports of academic issues.  Whatever the cause of the suspension, it would seem that he has paid a severe price in the form of missing 17 games knowing the added pressure he has put on his teammates because of his not playing. At this time no fan of Valpo has any idea what is going on.  Frustration has set in as the season is coming to a close with much on the line for the team and Valpo given the national exposure gained should we make the NCAA tournament. No doubt there is much going on behind the scene.  Some information, if allowed, would go a long way toward keeping the fan base informed.  At present, lack of information leads only to speculation or worse, misinformation. As always I very much appreciate all you are doing for Valpo and wish you all the best,

Well written.

We won't get anything.

The anger/disappointment/hard feeling about JA's absence that is now being directed at VU by some is misplaced. JA is responsible for this mess -- no one else.

Paul

Quote from: 78crusader on February 16, 2017, 07:58:52 PM
The anger/disappointment/hard feeling about JA's absence that is now being directed at VU by some is misplaced. JA is responsible for this mess -- no one else.

Paul

Only to a point. This has gotten ridiculous.

Just because Jubril may have made a mistake or had a lapse in judgment, whatever it was, doesn't mean he shouldn't be entitled to a fair and speedy resolution, which clearly seems to be lacking here.

Agree JA is entitled to a speedy resolution. Can't agree that VU is responsible for the lack of same -- I simply don't know what is going on.  Neither, I might add, does anyone else. VU is entitled to the same degree of fairness as JA.

Paul

Now her post makes me wonder if this is still a University matter and not the NCAA....really bizarre that I hope we get closure too (sooner rather then later).

I was on the JA has done this to himself and needs to accept his punishment side too....but if it is as minor as I've been led to believe then this amount of time got rediculous about 10 games ago.

Quote from: M on February 16, 2017, 08:16:05 PM
Now her post makes me wonder if this is still a University matter and not the NCAA....really bizarre that I hope we get closure too (sooner rather then later).

I was on the JA has done this to himself and needs to accept his punishment side too....but if it is as minor as I've been led to believe then this amount of time got rediculous about 10 games ago.

This has 0% chance of being a VU matter this late in the game?  Really?  I'd be dumbfounded...

So I had no clue the Valpo's NCAA Compliance Office had a twitter account till now. Why would they have a twitter account? Who knows. But from there twitter account they tweeted out on February 7th this:
https://twitter.com/valpocompliance/status/829126160818827264

"Basically all day in the compliance office. #StillWaiting"

My guess is this was a shot at the NCAA for the Jubril hold up. This was last Tuesday.

Among the people who liked the tweet from their twitter accounts were:
-Mark LaBarbera (AD)
-Aaron Leavitt (Asst. AD/Media Relations)

Everything is pointing at the NCAA for this hold up. Maybe the University found out the bad new already and then the VU lawyers are appealing to the NCAA? Do you think the Valpo Administration has lawyers on this, fighting the NCAA?

Here's a theory I don't believe anyone has posed; if so, I apologize for having missed it.  If we can believe the original report that the issue relates to another student allegedly doing academic work for an athlete and this was brought to the attention of the university, it is likely that the university self-reported it to the NCAA. Then, the NCAA launches an investigation, not only of this alleged event but also a more thorough investigation to determine if this is an isolated incident or if there have been other such instances among student athletes which would show a lack of institutional control.  Such an investigation, crossing across all sports, obviously would be lengthy so perhaps the delay has nothing to do with punishment but is really a delay brought about by the complexity of the investigation.  Perhaps this is the type of case we've read about where a judgment is handed down on misdeeds that occurred more than a year earlier.  Perhaps the university has no control over the amount of time this is taking and is being wise to not comment if it would have to acknowledge an NCAA investigation is taking place which might foster a belief among the public that the university is guilty until proven innocent.  If the university is guilty of NCAA violations, I'm confident it will be admitted, but only after the NCAA completes its investigation (which I hope and believe it will find is an isolated case).

Based on what I have heard, this very well could be the scenario.

Quote from: VULB#62 on February 16, 2017, 09:48:22 PM
Based on what I have heard, this very well could be the scenario.

I also had a person in a position of power at VU "not deny" that this scenario is a possibility.

And thank goodness this is happening. I mean, sure, we can wonder about a lack of institutional control at Michigan State or Baylor football, or Kansas basketball. But I think the world deserves to know about Jubril. In fact, I think a Game of Thrones style walk of shame is what is missing today. Pardon the crudeness of the copy and pasting, it's early.  http://imgur.com/zPALWfJ

Quote from: sliman on February 16, 2017, 09:32:11 PM
Here's a theory I don't believe anyone has posed; if so, I apologize for having missed it.  If we can believe the original report that the issue relates to another student allegedly doing academic work for an athlete and this was brought to the attention of the university, it is likely that the university self-reported it to the NCAA. Then, the NCAA launches an investigation, not only of this alleged event but also a more thorough investigation to determine if this is an isolated incident or if there have been other such instances among student athletes which would show a lack of institutional control.  Such an investigation, crossing across all sports, obviously would be lengthy so perhaps the delay has nothing to do with punishment but is really a delay brought about by the complexity of the investigation.  Perhaps this is the type of case we've read about where a judgment is handed down on misdeeds that occurred more than a year earlier.  Perhaps the university has no control over the amount of time this is taking and is being wise to not comment if it would have to acknowledge an NCAA investigation is taking place which might foster a belief among the public that the university is guilty until proven innocent.  If the university is guilty of NCAA violations, I'm confident it will be admitted, but only after the NCAA completes its investigation (which I hope and believe it will find is an isolated case).

To an extent this makes some sense, but why would Jubril bear the brunt for a wider spread "university" issue?  This really only makes sense if he was the one aiding other students and has a role in the ongoing investigation. Unless of course if they are checking all the way back to JA's kindergarten records to make sure VU didn't give a scholarship to someone who falsified NCAA clearinghouse information.  ;)

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 17, 2017, 07:04:04 AM
And thank goodness this is happening. I mean, sure, we can wonder about a lack of institutional control at Michigan State or Baylor football, or Kansas basketball. But I think the world deserves to know about Jubril. In fact, I think a Game of Thrones style walk of shame is what is missing today. Pardon the crudeness of the copy and pasting, it's early.  http://imgur.com/zPALWfJ

Would you please let us know about the lack of institutional control at Michigan State?

Quote from: valpospartan on February 17, 2017, 11:16:44 AM

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 17, 2017, 07:04:04 AM
And thank goodness this is happening. I mean, sure, we can wonder about a lack of institutional control at Michigan State or Baylor football, or Kansas basketball. But I think the world deserves to know about Jubril. In fact, I think a Game of Thrones style walk of shame is what is missing today. Pardon the crudeness of the copy and pasting, it's early.  http://imgur.com/zPALWfJ

Would you please let us know about the lack of institutional control at Michigan State?

I've heard from Michigan relatives that there have been significant issues with the non core programs.  Is this true?  I.e. Softball etc

Can't be worse than Baylor.  Big 12 announced last week it was not giving Baylor 25% of the their share of the conference revenue. 

I think FWalum was correct in his "possibility" that Jubril may have had a problem in his pre-school years.  I heard that he had some other student complete his pla-do project.  It took his school months to figure out who did it.   Hummmm, come to think about it, this sounds a little like Jubril's situation today...grade school kids trying to figure out who did what.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18696990/michigan-state-university-police-submits-requests-arrest-warrants-sexual-assault-investigation

Paul Oren just posted a statement from Valpo Athletics on Twitter that suggests that Adekoya has been suspended by the NCAA for the remainder of the season. VU has tried to appeal unsuccessfully.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C45aHm7VUAIlMR6.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C45al32VYAEGZEj.jpg)

"As a result of an academic matter, Valparaiso University removed Jubril Adekoya from basketball competition consistent with our requirements as an NCAA member institution. The University and the NCAA collaboratively conducted a review related to this matter. At the conclusion of the review, the University proposed a suspension for half of the season, however, the NCAA decided Jubril was ineligible to play in any regular or post-season games.

Valpo appealed this decision through several avenues. The appeals were unsuccessful, and we are bound by the NCAA decision. Valpo's statements during the past months on Jubril's status were made in a manner to protect the integrity of the University's and NCAA's joint investigation while respecting Jubril's right to privacy.

Jubril Adekoya has been an integral member of the Valpo basketball team, and he has helped lead the team to success. While we are disheartened at the outcome of the NCAA's decision, it doesn't change Jubril's legacy as a champion, Valparaiso University basketball player, or student."

So there it is.

I don't wish ill on anyone. But I hope Mark Emmerts steak is cooked incorrectly tonight.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 17, 2017, 03:34:45 PM
I don't wish ill on anyone. But I hope Mark Emmerts steak is cooked incorrectly tonight.

I hope it's made with mad cow meat. And by that he I hope eats some brain.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 17, 2017, 03:34:45 PM
I don't wish ill on anyone. But I hope Mark Emmerts steak is cooked incorrectly tonight.

What's done is done.  Wish it would have been done more efficiently.  Jubril seems like a good person, but he clearly did something bad enough for this type of result.  Hope it doesn't extend beyond Jubril, what deflating timing with OU tonight.

Could VU or Jubril seek injunctive relief from a court on this? The NCAA has not had a good track record getting judges to buy into their spotty and selective enforcements in recent years. And before you say, "oh, that will make enemies with the NCAA," well, what good did bending over backwards for them get VU in this case and the Carter decision?

I will also say this regarding the NCAA. If Jubril is done for the year, fine. But then Baylor football must receive the death penalty.

Ugh...suppose tonight the team can either rally around Jubril (like they have been all year) or just show up and go through the motions.

How unfortunate. Thanks for 3 plus years JA, it was a pleasure watching you play.

Sad result but I guess Jubril did this to himself.  Don't know the details to determine whether it warrants full suspension though.  There's a sports law clinic over at the law school.  I would hope they've exhausted or are exhausting all potential avenues on this issue. 

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 17, 2017, 03:40:53 PM
Could VU or Jubril seek injunctive relief from a court on this? The NCAA has not had a good track record getting judges to buy into their spotty and selective enforcements in recent years. And before you say, "oh, that will make enemies with the NCAA," well, what good did bending over backwards for them get VU in this case and the Carter decision?

Solid point, I think it was our morales as a University that led us to be forthcoming NOT threat of the NCAA (completely).  But if we file, does that mean Jubril can play.  Let's say yes, innocent until proven guilty.  But what about it being upheld...are we then found in violation if its upheld?

"The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky it will probably slap another two years probation on Cleveland State." -Jerry Tarkanian

North Carolina had better get drilled for its decade of academic fraud after this. Probably won't seeing as how the NCAA loves taking its anger at big programs out on the mid majors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: valpolaw on February 17, 2017, 03:47:06 PM
Sad result but I guess Jubril did this to himself.  Don't know the details to determine whether it warrants full suspension though.  There's a sports law clinic over at the law school.  I would hope they've exhausted or are exhausting all potential avenues on this issue.

Ive understood MIKE Straubel is well known in the sports world as a professor at VUL and the cross country coach.  Knew him when I was on the track team, not sure if he's still active.

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 17, 2017, 03:43:52 PM
I will also say this regarding the NCAA. If Jubril is done for the year, fine. But then Baylor football must receive the death penalty.

SMU would like a word with you.  If Penn State didn't receive the death penalty, what makes you think Baylor will?

When the University makes the kinds of statements that they have made supporting Jubril, I am having a hard time understanding what he could have done that the NCAA would impose a season long suspension.

Very disappointing.  For the record, I did receive an email response from Mark Heckler today with the same information.  He added "We are all deeply disappointed with the outcome of the NCAA decision. All of us worked hard for a different outcome. And I certainly can understand the frustration our wonderful and loyal fans have experienced over this matter."

Quote from: FWalum on February 17, 2017, 03:55:56 PM
When the University makes the kinds of statements that they have made supporting Jubril, I am having a hard time understanding what he could have done that the NCAA would impose a season long suspension.

Yes, reading the university statement carefully, one can detect frustration and anger at the NCAA. The statement makes a point of distinguishing between the punishment recommended by Valpo and its rejection by the NCAA. That separation did not need to be made in detail unless to emphasize a point of contention with the NCAA. Secondly, the university statement proceeds with an entire paragraph to clearly characterize Jubril positively, almost praising him (as a "champion, Valparaiso University basketball player, and a student"), and in the same paragraph by contrast speaks about being "disheartened at the outcome of this NCAA decision." The statement further points out that the review of this situation was done collaboratively by the university and the NCAA, which means both bodies looked at the same evidence together, and the university came to a different judgment, opposing the conclusion reached by the NCAA. The statement might seem diplomatic, but in between the lines it is a rebuttal, a rebuke, and a refutation of the NCAA decision.   

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 17, 2017, 03:52:51 PMIve understood MIKE Straubel is well known in the sports world as a professor at VUL and the cross country coach.  Knew him when I was on the track team, not sure if he's still active.

The law school's website says Straubel is still there. 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have had it with the NCAA.  We have been screwed over on  more than one occasion, as have some other mid-major schools over the years.  They allow the larger schools to do whatever they want and then beat the h--- out of the smaller schools.  It doesn't make sense.  It is time for the big 5 conferences to go on their own with the present NCAA people running their tainted show.  Then the mid-majors can go on their own with fair treatment for ALL member schools.  This decision stinks to high heaven.  While not excusing JA,  this just is not fair to JA, the team  or VU.  Enough is enough!

Honest Question:

Would the NCAA punish a player from a Power Conference school the same way? (take emotion out of it)

My Opinion: No, but 95% of other schools don't have the ethics, character and standards of Valparaiso University to report it in the first place.


I know that no one in the program would admit this/or comment publicly, but I wonder if they had a do over if the Team and Athletic Department would even self report the academic infraction to the NCAA to begin with.

Clearly the Team and Athletic Department took a firm stance against whatever Jubril did (my guess was he got unauthorized help an exam/paper or something) and originally gave a 50% game suspension (which is debatably overkill to many, in this scenario) and wanted to be super cautious so they reported it up the NCAA to possibly kiss some @$$ but NOBODY expected this would be the end result.

I think WH, mentioned this earlier, "The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation." -Jerry Tarkanian

Great quote and some truth in it. Maybe we are Cleveland State and the NCAA basically is using us a warning shot to every other bigger school. I'm sorry but Jubril and our team got screwed here. The NCAA can be truly shameful and ignorant at times.

QuoteI think WH, mentioned this earlier, "The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky they're going to give Cleveland State another year of probation." -Jerry Tarkanian

Great quote and some truth in it. Maybe we are Cleveland State and the NCAA basically is using us a warning shot to every other bigger school. I'm sorry but Jubril and our team got screwed here. The NCAA can be truly shameful and ignorant at times.

Between the NCAA snub, the Keith Carter situation and now this, it's almost like the NCAA is going out of their way to derail a successful mid-major program. While letting UNC continue to compete for Final Fours several *years* into a full-fledged, university-wide academic fraud investigation. Hmm.

(http://badmovierealm.com/purplemonkeydishwasher/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Cartman_Pissed_Off.jpg)

How is it that the power conferences can somehow maneuver thru the compliance and rules issues unscathed yet we ,and schools like us get screwed?
Do the big schools employ big law firms to help the athletic department with these issues?
If so,why dont we?

Quote from: VU2003 on February 17, 2017, 05:21:41 PMHow is it that the power conferences can somehow maneuver thru the compliance and rules issues unscathed yet we ,and schools like us get screwed? Do the big schools employ big law firms to help the athletic department with these issues? If so,why dont we?

We don't generate the revenue the big schools do. So they can be more strict with the smaller ones to flex their power while not losing any of that money. This way they can point to something and say "See we take academic infractions seriously".

Senior Night on Tuesday certainly has an interesting twist now!

By running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" 

Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

If the team really wants to stick it to the man, win the Horizon League, travel to the 1st round game of the NCAA tournament, warm up for the game and then walk off the court.

The NCAA's money grab is the NCAA tournament. Without those other 250+ schools they ignore, they won't make any money. Nobody will. You'd think at some point they'd realize there's there's not going to be a successful NCAA alternative, and that having a backbone would make them a lot more money, since regular people have more ties to colleges that aren't named Duke, North Carolina, or Kansas.

Quote from: VUBBFan on February 17, 2017, 05:31:04 PM

Quote from: VU2003 on February 17, 2017, 05:21:41 PMHow is it that the power conferences can somehow maneuver thru the compliance and rules issues unscathed yet we ,and schools like us get screwed? Do the big schools employ big law firms to help the athletic department with these issues? If so,why dont we?

We don't generate the revenue the big schools do. So they can be more strict with the smaller ones to flex their power while not losing any of that money. This way they can point to something and say "See we take academic infractions seriously".

Perfect world exists in our minds.  This is a microcosm of the real world.  Because we did things correctly there is no looking back over our shoulders.

How do we know if we did"the right thing"

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 17, 2017, 06:14:04 PM

Quote from: VUBBFan on February 17, 2017, 05:31:04 PM

Quote from: VU2003 on February 17, 2017, 05:21:41 PMHow is it that the power conferences can somehow maneuver thru the compliance and rules issues unscathed yet we ,and schools like us get screwed? Do the big schools employ big law firms to help the athletic department with these issues? If so,why dont we?

We don't generate the revenue the big schools do. So they can be more strict with the smaller ones to flex their power while not losing any of that money. This way they can point to something and say "See we take academic infractions seriously".

Perfect world exists in our minds.  This is a microcosm of the real world.  Because we did things correctly there is no looking back over our shoulders.

Who says we did things correctly?

Quote from: wh on February 17, 2017, 05:39:49 PM
By running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" 

Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

Max wasn't involved. Exonerated after the first round of fact finding. Give him a break.

The big schools have tons of financial resources to not-so-subtly infer that they can tie the NCAA up in court for years if they so choose. They also have plenty of big-network media megaphones who will plead their case and put public pressure on the NCAA, to say nothing of thousands of fans lobbying as well. So the NCAA takes out their frustrations on mid-majors, who have none of those advantages.

Quote from: a3uge on February 17, 2017, 06:12:53 PM
The NCAA's money grab is the NCAA tournament. Without those other 250+ schools they ignore, they won't make any money. Nobody will. You'd think at some point they'd realize there's there's not going to be a successful NCAA alternative, and that having a backbone would make them a lot more money, since regular people have more ties to colleges that aren't named Duke, North Carolina, or Kansas.

Well stated.  +1

I feel gutted and none of it has anything to do with our performance at Oakland.

Last week I thought we could be a great 11 or 12 seed. Tonight I am shifting into "wait till next year" mode. I don't want another NIT run, and without Jubril I don't see us having the depth or experience for an NCAA upset. If the team mentality mirrors mine I do not even see how they regain their mojo.

I need a drink.

An 11 or 12 seed? I want what you're having!

Quote from: valpocleveland on February 17, 2017, 08:55:50 PMAn 11 or 12 seed? I want what you're having!

Hey the first went down real easy and I already feel better!  :thumbsup: You folks may want to join me and I hate drinking alone.

I hate the NCAA, seriously, it takes this long to make a decision? If this were a corporation, they would be off the NYSE or Nasdaq.

Quote from: VUOR63 on February 17, 2017, 05:59:13 PMIf the team really wants to stick it to the man, win the Horizon League, travel to the 1st round game of the NCAA tournament, warm up for the game and then walk off the court.

Way off base. BUT if Matt, with his detailed knowledge of the mater, felt like playing only freshmen and walk-ons then I wouldn't even question him. Sometimes unconventional responses are the ones that get a little press.

Speaking of unconventional and press coverage we only have 11 voters on my Trump Duration Poll under the General Off Topic section. Come on over and voice your opinions on our next president, Mike Pence. How is that for a thread hijacking?  :cheers: I'm going to go get me another one.

What about #23 patches being worn by the team?

I fully support the team deciding not to play a game....   sometimes a statement is necessary.

(While I understand punishment for doing something wrong - I think stringing everyone along and then doing this is insane ....   maybe I will follow something else for a while....)

I am sick of this messed up crap of a day.  I don't know how this can be happening when the aggrieved party ie. Valparaiso University says that it is satisfied that student athlete Jubril Adekoya, an athlete that graduated in 3 years as an honor student and is now in grad school, can resume play yet gets slapped by the NCAA with a full season suspension.  I am sick and tired of them saying they are for the student athlete when they are obviously only out to line their pockets and selfishly allow the pretense of "students" on teams.  They obviously don't know a student athlete when they see one. JA is suspended for basically the whole year while one of the following "student" athlete examples is back playing in as little as 3 games.  Tell me how this is fair.

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/sean-miller-ncaa-extremely-fair-trier-case-012317?cmpid=feed:-sports-CQ-RSS-Feed (http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/sean-miller-ncaa-extremely-fair-trier-case-012317?cmpid=feed:-sports-CQ-RSS-Feed)
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaab/ua/2017/01/19/questions-remain-allonzo-triers-nba-stock-and-ped-use/96782252/ (http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ncaab/ua/2017/01/19/questions-remain-allonzo-triers-nba-stock-and-ped-use/96782252/)
http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/no-3-kansas-lifts-suspension-of-forward-carlton-bragg-020617?cmpid=feed:-sports-CQ-RSS-Feed (http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/no-3-kansas-lifts-suspension-of-forward-carlton-bragg-020617?cmpid=feed:-sports-CQ-RSS-Feed)
http://www.postandcourier.com/sports/suspended-usc-basketball-player-sindarius-thornwell-arrested-in-may-on/article_10426a86-c172-11e6-8820-b30b4ce2abd0.html (http://www.postandcourier.com/sports/suspended-usc-basketball-player-sindarius-thornwell-arrested-in-may-on/article_10426a86-c172-11e6-8820-b30b4ce2abd0.html)
http://www.wltx.com/news/uscs-sindarius-thornwell-returning-to-team-following-suspension/381243562 (http://www.wltx.com/news/uscs-sindarius-thornwell-returning-to-team-following-suspension/381243562)

This is also a bunch of horse manure: http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/6/5/8735807/north-carolina-basketball-academic-scandal-ncaa-2015 (http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2015/6/5/8735807/north-carolina-basketball-academic-scandal-ncaa-2015)

USC is a power 5 school and their punishment was undoubtedly more than what was committed. Penn State, North Carolina and Baylor got or will just get a slap on the wrist compared to USC

Quote from: VU2014 on February 17, 2017, 04:54:51 PMHonest Question: Would the NCAA punish a player from a Power Conference school the same way? 

Yes

Quote from: wh on February 17, 2017, 05:39:49 PMBy running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

Assumption, Assumption, Assumption

Quote from: VU2624 on February 18, 2017, 11:21:47 AM

Quote from: wh on February 17, 2017, 05:39:49 PMBy running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

Assumption, Assumption, Assumption

It doesn't seem to apply to Max Joseph but it does hint at the fact that if you arm yourself with accusations thrown at the NCAA, high paid lawyers, discrimination claims and other tools you will fair much better than being brutally honest with the NCAA. It teaches young kids who may someday have to deal with the NCAA in the future that deflecting and denying will get you a better result from an NCAA ruling.

Quote from: bbtds on February 18, 2017, 11:44:01 AMQuote from: wh on February 17, 2017, 05:39:49 PM By running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove." 

Quote from: justducky on February 17, 2017, 10:19:05 PM
What about #23 patches being worn by the team?

YES!

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 17, 2017, 03:40:53 PMCould VU or Jubril seek injunctive relief from a court on this? The NCAA has not had a good track record getting judges to buy into their spotty and selective enforcements in recent years. And before you say, "oh, that will make enemies with the NCAA," well, what good did bending over backwards for them get VU in this case and the Carter decision?

Does anyone know whether Jubril or the university has looked into the possibly of seeking an injunction against the NCAA or legal relief if possible?  I hope they're doing everything they can.

I briefly looked around and found this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/03/sports/ncaabasketball/at-iona-a-happy-ending-for-mike-glovers-odyssey.html?mwrsm=Email

Somewhat of a different situation, but this student athlete initially filed suit against the NCAA.

Anyone else find it entertaining when our various high major fans on this board jump right to the defense of their respective high major teams?

Hail - as a Valpo, USC and MIT alum, I am just expressing how inconsistent the NCAA is with their punishment. Baylor is probably going to get a slap on the wrist even though the football team molested half the women on campus. The events that occurred at Penn State were so bad that they should have suspended football for several years. At USC, one player's parent stayed in a condo rent free for a year, and it put the football program back 7 years. Based on that experience and the passive way the USC administration handled it,  Valpo needs to be more proactive and vocal with the NCAA scum.

Paul,
Heard you mention on USH you wanted to do a book on Peters v Felder before the latter turned pro. Any thoughts on doing one on this Jubril situation? Or at least a longer article for one of the sites you write for?

Quote from: usc4valpo on February 18, 2017, 05:06:53 PMHail - as a Valpo, USC and MIT alum, I am just expressing how inconsistent the NCAA is with their punishment. Baylor is probably going to get a slap on the wrist even though the football team molested half the women on campus. The events that occurred at Penn State were so bad that they should have suspended football for several years. At USC, one player's parent stayed in a condo rent free for a year, and it put the football program back 7 years. Based on that experience and the passive way the USC administration handled it,  Valpo needs to be more proactive and vocal with the NCAA scum.

I understand. You sure aren't the only one. I follow/cheer for other schools as well. But I think it brings up an interesting point -- it's easy to claim the ref/NCAA/world is out to get your team in particular, no matter what your team is, when in fact unfair things happen to all sorts of teams, big or small.

QuotePaul,
Heard you mention on USH you wanted to do a book on Peters v Felder before the latter turned pro. Any thoughts on doing one on this Jubril situation? Or at least a longer article for one of the sites you write for?

This a repost from the USH Thread earlier, but is my personal wishlist of guests. Jubril would be a great guest.

1. MLB
Questions for MLB:[/u]
-Want to know what the chances of switching Conference are? MVC? Thoughts are the shifting landscape of conference.
-What are the realities of getting a renovated ARC? Are there plans? Any timeline?
-Thoughts on moving on from the Drew era.
-Thoughts on Bryce Drew interviewing for jobs while we were in the heat of the NIT.
-Did you offer the job the Coach Powell before Coach Lottich? (that one might be tmi to give out) Side Note: the Lottich hire looks great.
-What really happened with that whole David Skara situation? (I'd love to get a public confirmation with the rumors) Did David really personally want to leave? Was the decision up to him? Thoughts on Don Bosco Prep?
--Thoughts on the 'Motor City Dumpster' Fire Tournament?
-Great challenges facing the program in the future?
Simply put I could listen to a 4 hour podcast with the back and forth between Paul and MLB if it wasn't PC. By far would be the best guest.

2. Commissioner LeCrone
-Have Paul GRILL him on the Motor City Dumpster' Fire Tournament!  >:(
-Why is the Tourney not in a REAL neutral site!?  >:(
-Why did the tourney format of hosting get switched
-Ask him to elaborate on Butlers time in the HL.
-Any chance of adding teams in the near future? Belmont?
-Is he worried about losing Valpo to the MVC
-The overall consolidation of conference and how it impacts mid-majors, etc.

3. Jubril- Obvious reason and no need to elaborate.

4. Bryce Drew
-Ask him why he left?
-Is Vandy as special as you thought it is?
-Differences between Power 5 coaching/recruiting to Mid-Major Level

5. Richie Edwards/Brandon Wodd/David Skara
Obvious reasons why.
Side Question: Is there an interesting back story to the Richie Edwards transfer? Why transfer to Arizona to play mop up minutes rather then be one of the key guys on a good mid-major team? He would have had more tape to show scouts for a future pro career.
6. Homer Drew
7. Rowdy
8. Vashil
9. Aaron Leavitt
10. Rod Moore (this one would be particularly fun to hear his stories, at least for some of the younger almuni who are more new to our history.
11. Todd Ickow
12. Scott Drew
13. I'm sure there is a long list of former players that I'm not aware of.
14. Any long-time season ticket holder who has seen everything. I'm sure they'd have some stories.

Quote from: valpolaw on February 18, 2017, 12:24:17 PM

Quote from: wh on February 18, 2017, 11:44:01 AMQuote from: wh on February 17, 2017, 05:39:49 PM By running roughshod over Jubril and Valpo after Jubril admitted his guilt while Max continues to play changes the message from "Don't cheat" to "You shouldn't cheat, but if you do, DENY, DENY, DENY!" Make your accusers prove their claims, hire lawyers, take them to court, sue for defamation, claim discrimination, whatever it takes.

"It's not what you know, it's what you can prove." 

That quote above should be credited to "wh" and not myself, although I do agree with it.

Quote from: usc4valpo on February 18, 2017, 05:06:53 PMHail - as a Valpo, USC and MIT alum, I am just expressing how inconsistent the NCAA is with their punishment. Baylor is probably going to get a slap on the wrist even though the football team molested half the women on campus. The events that occurred at Penn State were so bad that they should have suspended football for several years. At USC, one player's parent stayed in a condo rent free for a year, and it put the football program back 7 years. Based on that experience and the passive way the USC administration handled it,  Valpo needs to be more proactive and vocal with the NCAA scum.

The NCAA does treat criminal issues and issues vs. the "program" differently. Academic problems and aid to an athlete which is outside the rules will be treated more harshly in a lot of cases than issues involving the criminal justice system. Whether that's fair or not is subject to opinion.

Despite the frustration of this whole scenario, we still have no idea of the scope of the problem with Jubril....and probably never will as the only person who can comment on it is Jubril and he can (not necessarily will) present a decidedly one sided view.  It does explain why Jubril and the team seemed perplexed a week or so ago as they probably felt Valpo's suggestion of half of a season suspension would be the end of it and then it was not.

Bush league.

Celebrate cheating. Celebrate dishonesty. Call justice injustice.

Considering the wiggle room available in the tense of the Valparaiso University statement that Jubril "has been an integral member of the Valparaiso basketball team" rather than the present tense "is," and given that the complimentary language about Jubril in the Valparaiso University official statement declared his "legacy as a champion, Valparaiso University basketball player, or student," a question remains about his status at the Senior Night game. We know the NCAA did not allow him to travel with the team this weekend; however, I am assuming he still will be permitted to be present for the home game and be part of the Senior Night activities.


Despite the word choices of "has been" and "legacy," I hope (and expect) Jubril will be able to sit on the bench Tuesday night as well as to be introduced alongside his good friend Alec and the other seniors for an opportunity to address the fans after the game. Further, I anticipate the fans would give him a warm reception, not condoning the error he acknowledges, but in recognition that the punishment by the NCAA has been excessive and with the perception that the process has been unfair. If Jubril uses that opportunity, what he says and how he expresses himself will be interesting to hear. Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised to hear Alec recognize Jubril as well.


Senior night already promised to be dramatic as Alec Peters, perhaps Valpo's best player ever, offers a farewell. However, the evening now has added intrigue.     

At one point in my life I considered myself a pretty good writer.  I was also broke and really needed some money. 

I made a lot of money writing papers for people while in school (I did not attend Valpo). 

In every case where I was paid to write a paper for another student, it was because that student was ignoring a "rather easy blow off class" to focus all of their energy on one of the classes they were really struggling with. 

On the surface all of the above would be labeled unethical.  However, if the above students would have written their own papers for their mandatory elective they really wouldn't have learned anything new and would have spent less time absorbing more difficult information needed for their future careers.  In the meantime I made a little bit of money. 

All of us learned lessons on time management, negotiations, and networking.   

"Cheating is cheating" is not true.   Everyone wants to label everything in black and white and ignore all the gray.   As others have said, we will likely never know the details of what exactly happened, but not all cheating is created equal.  Perhaps what he did constitutes a full year punishment, but I sorta doubt it.     

Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 19, 2017, 10:14:13 AMAt one point in my life I considered myself a pretty good writer.  I was also broke and really needed some money. I made a lot of money writing papers for people while in school (I did not attend Valpo). In every case where I was paid to write a paper for another student, it was because that student was ignoring a "rather easy blow off class" to focus all of their energy on one of the classes they were really struggling with. On the surface all of the above would be labeled unethical.  However, if the above students would have written their own papers for their mandatory elective they really wouldn't have learned anything new and would have spent less time absorbing more difficult information needed for their future careers.  In the meantime I made a little bit of money. All of us learned lessons on time management, negotiations, and networking. "Cheating is cheating" is not true.   Everyone wants to label everything in black and white and ignore all the gray.   As others have said, we will likely never know the details of what exactly happened, but not all cheating is created equal.  Perhaps what he did constitutes a full year punishment, but I sorta doubt it.

Let's keep in mind that Jubril, apparently, may have used whatever unauthorized aid he received to turn into Honor Roll recognition as well as separate NCAA academic leadership recognition. While we don't know the full extent of what aid Adekoya received or for what class whether rollover or not, if that's not troubling to you, no amount of anyone's opinion is going to sway anyone's opinion.

QuoteThe NCAA does treat criminal issues and issues vs. the "program" differently. Academic problems and aid to an athlete which is outside the rules will be treated more harshly in a lot of cases than issues involving the criminal justice system. Whether that's fair or not is subject to opinion.

There is a reason why the NCAA is so harsh and academic issues and unauthorized financial compensation. It's because it is at the heart of the NCAA business model and financing structure. If they appear to start getting relax on academics and getting soft the student part of student athlete then it softens the case to say that they are student athletes therefore they shouldn't get paid. Same goes for if they start to allow student athletes to be blatantly paid.

If Male Football and basketball athletes start to get paid then 'Title IX' gets to become a problem and maybe through the courts they have to start paying their female counterparts which are a net loss for revenue and actually cost athletic departments $ because they can't sustain themselves financially. If basketball and football get paid then via the court system they maybe have to pay other student athletes in different sports. It's sort of the slippery slope argument. I believe I read in the Washington Post that in most athletic departments only Football and Mens basketball programs make a profit or break even, and those profits are used to subsidize most other athletic sports team at the college.

Thats why I believe the NCAA is so harsh on academic and cases of paying student athletes. If the NCAA was force to actually pay athletes I don't think Schools like Valpo would have a very large athletics program or competitive one. Now there is an argument for small stipends and paying for food while at school but then we're getting into a whole different debate.

Quote from: VU2624 on February 19, 2017, 10:44:03 AM
Let's keep in mind that Jubril, apparently, may have used whatever unauthorized aid he received to turn into Honor Roll recognition as well as separate NCAA academic leadership recognition. While we don't know the full extent of what aid Adekoya received or for what class whether rollover or not, if that's not troubling to you, no amount of anyone's opinion is going to sway anyone's opinion.

On one hand you state that we don't know the full extent of what Jubril did, yet in the same breath you suggest that he's a serial cheater and academic fraud. In another post you noted that the only one who knows the truth is Jubril, then cautioned that his story might lack credibility. In yet another post, you suggest that the inexcusable length of time this thing has dragged on is immaterial. Whether the university or the NCAA mishandled the investigation - immaterial. Whether the punishment fits the crime - immaterial. So, what is material in your world - that Jubril brought this whole thing on himself. Period. End of story.

For others who might be interested, I would suggest that this poster's inference that Jubril is a long term cheater is highly unlikely. According to the university's academic policy, if Jubril had been found guilty of cheating in multiple courses, he would have failed those courses. In turn, he would not have been considered a student in good standing, nor been eligible to participate in athletics. There would have been no need to wait for an NCAA decision.

In retrospect, even though it rubbed people/even players the wrong way to hold him out, it seems that Valpo made the correct decision to sit him immediately until the NCAA resolved the issue.  We might be talking about forfeited games, had Valpo not taken this approach. 

I do think that it is crap that it seems like there is a different standard for Power 5 schools versus the mid/low majors, but without knowing what happened, it is hard to make that claim in this instance.

Quote from: valpotx on February 19, 2017, 06:22:30 PM
In retrospect, even though it rubbed people/even players the wrong way to hold him out, it seems that Valpo made the correct decision to sit him immediately until the NCAA resolved the issue.  We might be talking about forfeited games, had Valpo not taken this approach. 

I do think that it is crap that it seems like there is a different standard for Power 5 schools versus the mid/low majors, but without knowing what happened, it is hard to make that claim in this instance.

Did the announcement say it was concluded and ONLY Jubril would be punished?  Is there still a possibility VU has to be reprimanded (i.e. Vacate games).

The statement seemed only to touch upon the loss of Jubril.

Interesting note from the Detroit game recap posted on valpoathletics.com.

"The Crusaders (22-6, 12-3 Horizon) maintained their one-game lead in the Horizon League standings with the win and return home for the regular season home finale on Tuesday evening at the ARC. It will be Senior Night at the ARC, as – along with senior team managers, band members, cheerleaders and Crusaderettes – Peters, Hammink, Jubril Adekoya, Nick Davidson and Jason Karys will be honored in a pregame ceremony."

Glad the university is going to include him in Senior Night.  Can't wait to hear the speeches all around - from Coach Lottich, Alec, and Jubril himself.

Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 19, 2017, 10:14:13 AM
At one point in my life I considered myself a pretty good writer.  I was also broke and really needed some money. 

I made a lot of money writing papers for people while in school (I did not attend Valpo). 

In every case where I was paid to write a paper for another student, it was because that student was ignoring a "rather easy blow off class" to focus all of their energy on one of the classes they were really struggling with. 

On the surface all of the above would be labeled unethical.  However, if the above students would have written their own papers for their mandatory elective they really wouldn't have learned anything new and would have spent less time absorbing more difficult information needed for their future careers.  In the meantime I made a little bit of money. 

All of us learned lessons on time management, negotiations, and networking.   

"Cheating is cheating" is not true.   Everyone wants to label everything in black and white and ignore all the gray.   As others have said, we will likely never know the details of what exactly happened, but not all cheating is created equal.  Perhaps what he did constitutes a full year punishment, but I sorta doubt it.     

This is very problematic. While I would agree that there are certainly different degrees of cheating, having your paper for any class written by someone else is cheating and writing someone else's paper for money is unethical and constitutes cheating. If a student faces the dilemma that you suggest, they need to work with the college and the applicable professors to find balance. However, regardless of the circumstances, if I found a student having a paper written by someone else I would automatically given them an F for the class and would refer the matter to the Honor Council.

Quote from: VU2014 on February 19, 2017, 11:47:02 AM

QuoteThe NCAA does treat criminal issues and issues vs. the "program" differently. Academic problems and aid to an athlete which is outside the rules will be treated more harshly in a lot of cases than issues involving the criminal justice system. Whether that's fair or not is subject to opinion.

There is a reason why the NCAA is so harsh and academic issues and unauthorized financial compensation. It's because it is at the heart of the NCAA business model and financing structure. If they appear to start getting relax on academics and getting soft the student part of student athlete then it softens the case to say that they are student athletes therefore they shouldn't get paid. Same goes for if they start to allow student athletes to be blatantly paid.

If Male Football and basketball athletes start to get paid then 'Title IX' gets to become a problem and maybe through the courts they have to start paying their female counterparts which are a net loss for revenue and actually cost athletic departments $ because they can't sustain themselves financially. If basketball and football get paid then via the court system they maybe have to pay other student athletes in different sports. It's sort of the slippery slope argument. I believe I read in the Washington Post that in most athletic departments only Football and Mens basketball programs make a profit or break even, and those profits are used to subsidize most other athletic sports team at the college.

Thats why I believe the NCAA is so harsh on academic and cases of paying student athletes. If the NCAA was force to actually pay athletes I don't think Schools like Valpo would have a very large athletics program or competitive one. Now there is an argument for small stipends and paying for food while at school but then we're getting into a whole different debate.

I think that wh has a very good point here. I would add that the reason why the NCAA treats academic and aid issues more harshly is that they are within their legal domain to do so. There is no criminal code with laws related to discovery and due process that can supersede anything that the NCAA does. Consider, for example, a student-athlete arrested for theft and the police investigate the crime, charges are filed and the process through the courts ensues. I doubt that the NCAA can gain access to non-public information regarding a criminal investigation. Thus, if they suspend the student-athlete, they are at risk of him or her being found not guilty and they have (at least from a legal perspective) unjustly punished the student-athlete. For academic and aid issues, the NCAA is the governing and investigative body and member institutions agree to give them that power when they sign up as NCAA members.

As Christians are we not supposed to forgive? Oh, how soon I forget, it is the NCAA.

No one is asking for forgiveness. We are simply asking for a reasonable penalty. 2 games suspension, 5...how about 10?
The whole year? seriously?!!!!
NCAA  :crazy:

The fact that the University recommended a half-season suspension to the NCAA suggests to me that this wasn't simply an easy issue to dissect. Say what you want about the NCAA (and we all have plenty to say), VU offered 16ish games as a punishment in the hopes that Jubril could return to the court.

The NCAA isn't to blame here. They've got issues for sure, but there's really only one place to point the finger. Whatever happened - and all that came from it - started in one place.

Quote from: ValpoHoops on February 20, 2017, 02:21:29 PM
The fact that the University recommended a half-season suspension to the NCAA suggests to me that this wasn't simply an easy issue to dissect. Say what you want about the NCAA (and we all have plenty to say), VU offered 16ish games as a punishment in the hopes that Jubril could return to the court.

The NCAA isn't to blame here. They've got issues for sure, but there's really only one place to point the finger. Whatever happened - and all that came from it - started in one place.

We should expell Jubril then - the only one to blame is him!

Quit rolling over for the NCAA. This is a punishment that would never be levied against a Power 5 program, much less levied mid-season and left to drag on for two months. I sincerely hope Jubril and VU have talked to attorneys about seeking a TRO at a minimum, and force the NCAA to try and justify their decision out in the open.

remember that we are all sinners

this punishment is ridiculas man.

J.A. should have been suspended by the coach and the university. For a university that prides itself on high ethics and morals, this is a disgrace. JA let his teammates down, his parents down, the university down, and every fan down. Then he was a distraction for the entire year. His teammates wearing black t-shirts to support him? That's what is ridiculous. It's not like he was in some accident and is showing courage to play again or walk again. He should have been kicked off the team in December. Then the team could have focused on games, not his case.

OK, guy who trashes a player with his first post based on... ?

Quote from: Fantastic on February 20, 2017, 03:25:15 PMJ.A. should have been suspended by the coach and the university. For a university that prides itself on high ethics and morals, this is a disgrace. JA let his teammates down, his parents down, the university down, and every fan down. Then he was a distraction for the entire year. His teammates wearing black t-shirts to support him? That's what is ridiculous. It's not like he was in some accident and is showing courage to play again or walk again. He should have been kicked off the team in December. Then the team could have focused on games, not his case.

Do you even know the details of what he did?  If you don't, then I don't know how you could come to the conclusions you reached.  Even if he did do something wrong, which everyone does at some point in life, he deserves a fair/reasonable punishment and timely resolution.

Fantastic makes some valid points IMO.

Paul

Painful or not, the best thing for Jubril to do on Senior Night is to own the mistake and the consequences. it would be an emotionally draining and painful thing to do.  But it would spare a lot of awkwardness of the night and set the right tone for him.  That would make him a true hero and make a statement to young kids who are watching all of this play out.

While the punishment might be harsh (we don't know), he should be proud to have admitted  the guilt and stayed to cheer on the team while it was adjudicated. His future in the work world will be better served if he just owns what he did. 

Quote from: wh on February 19, 2017, 01:40:30 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on February 19, 2017, 10:44:03 AMLet's keep in mind that Jubril, apparently, may have used whatever unauthorized aid he received to turn into Honor Roll recognition as well as separate NCAA academic leadership recognition. While we don't know the full extent of what aid Adekoya received or for what class whether rollover or not, if that's not troubling to you, no amount of anyone's opinion is going to sway anyone's opinion.

On one hand you state that we don't know the full extent of what Jubril did, yet in the same breath you suggest that he's a serial cheater and academic fraud. In another post you noted that the only one who knows the truth is Jubril, then cautioned that his story might lack credibility. In yet another post, you suggest that the inexcusable length of time this thing has dragged on is immaterial. Whether the university or the NCAA mishandled the investigation - immaterial. Whether the punishment fits the crime - immaterial. So, what is material in your world - that Jubril brought this whole thing on himself. Period. End of story. For others who might be interested, I would suggest that this poster's inference that Jubril is a long term cheater is highly unlikely. According to the university's academic policy, if Jubril had been found guilty of cheating in multiple courses, he would have failed those courses. In turn, he would not have been considered a student in good standing, nor been eligible to participate in athletics. There would have been no need to wait for an NCAA decision.

"Apparently"

If a guy on the Honor Roll and on a student athlete committee for the entire NCAA is caught having a paper or papers written for him I find that to be a pretty big problem.....if that is what "apparently" happened. 

Whether it should result in "x" number of games suspended (including the school which proposed a half season indicating that it had to be pretty serious) is up to anyone's opinion including those who appear to be overly invested in the situation. "I just want my player back!!"

Whatever it is that did happen, it was pretty serious if the school was willing to go with a suspension as long as was suggested. That may shed more light on the level of the problem than anything anyone is sourcing, speculating or throwing up against a wall.

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 20, 2017, 03:09:44 PM
Quit rolling over for the NCAA. This is a punishment that would never be levied against a Power 5 program, much less levied mid-season and left to drag on for two months. I sincerely hope Jubril and VU have talked to attorneys about seeking a TRO at a minimum, and force the NCAA to try and justify their decision out in the open.

I am almost certain now that the difference between this happening to a small mid-major program and a Power 5 program is exposure and risk. The NCAA has little or no risk in our situation versus a P5 team and they virtually have no negative exposure.  This issue with JA will not be covered by any significant media, where if this had happened at Kansas or Kentucky it would have been big time news putting additional pressure for a positive outcome on the NCAA.  I find it hard to believe that if a P5 school had said that a player was in good academic standing and actually made that statement public, that the NCAA would not fold to their will.  Valpo has no such leverage.

I also want to say that no one outside of the immediate "players" know what JA's issue really is.  This has never appeared to me to be a "normal" academic issue. We heard some initial rumors about "the manager", but no specifics that have been verified. We have heard nothing about this being taken to or ruled on by the Honor Council and I don't think it is the norm for a school with a good academic reputation to state that a "cheating" student "continues to be a student in good standing" or that this "doesn't change Jubril's legacy as a champion Valparaiso University basketball player or student". None of this makes any sense unless the circumstances are unusual.

Quote from: FWalum on February 20, 2017, 05:38:19 PMI don't think it is the norm for a school with a good academic reputation to state that a "cheating" student "continues to be a student in good standing" or that this "doesn't change Jubril's legacy as a champion Valparaiso University basketball player or student".

While I wholeheartedly agree that Valpo wouldn't do that if it were not true, it is well within the realm of possibilities that Jubril WAS in good academic standing and still had this situation occur.

All that I take "good academic standing" to mean is that he is on the proper track to graduate on time and has the GPA to do so. In this situation - WITH ZERO FACTS, AND I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH THAT THIS IS MERELY MY PERSONAL OPINION - the thought that comes to mind is that whatever happened caused Jubril to fail one or more classes, which caused him to fall below the threshold for full-time (even as a graduate student), which caused him to be ineligible. Despite that, he still had the total credits and GPA to be considered in good academic standing.

Quote from: FWalum on February 20, 2017, 05:38:19 PM

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 20, 2017, 03:09:44 PM
Quit rolling over for the NCAA. This is a punishment that would never be levied against a Power 5 program, much less levied mid-season and left to drag on for two months. I sincerely hope Jubril and VU have talked to attorneys about seeking a TRO at a minimum, and force the NCAA to try and justify their decision out in the open.

I am almost certain now that the difference between this happening to a small mid-major program and a Power 5 program is exposure and risk. The NCAA has little or no risk in our situation versus a P5 team and they virtually have no negative exposure.  This issue with JA will not be covered by any significant media, where if this had happened at Kansas or Kentucky it would have been big time news putting additional pressure for a positive outcome on the NCAA.  I find it hard to believe that if a P5 school had said that a player was in good academic standing and actually made that statement public, that the NCAA would not fold to their will.  Valpo has no such leverage.

I also want to say that no one outside of the immediate "players" know what JA's issue really is.  This has never appeared to me to be a "normal" academic issue. We heard some initial rumors about "the manager", but no specifics that have been verified. We have heard nothing about this being taken to or ruled on by the Honor Council and I don't think it is the norm for a school with a good academic reputation to state that a "cheating" student "continues to be a student in good standing" or that this "doesn't change Jubril's legacy as a champion Valparaiso University basketball player or student". None of this makes any sense unless the circumstances are unusual.

Sucks, it really does.  But for those of you working in the real world, this happens in every aspect of life. 

We should be frustrated, but it's not going to change.  If a customer of mine is small and loud....it just makes them obnoxious.  Big and loud (some would argue is Trump) makes you heard, albeit not in a wholesome way.

Let's effect what we can effect.  This is what makes fandom so gut wrenching....all we can do is watch.  Unless I'm missing something...is one of us a closet billionaire?

Quote from: valpolaw on February 20, 2017, 03:42:35 PM

Quote from: Fantastic on February 20, 2017, 03:25:15 PMJ.A. should have been suspended by the coach and the university. For a university that prides itself on high ethics and morals, this is a disgrace. JA let his teammates down, his parents down, the university down, and every fan down. Then he was a distraction for the entire year. His teammates wearing black t-shirts to support him? That's what is ridiculous. It's not like he was in some accident and is showing courage to play again or walk again. He should have been kicked off the team in December. Then the team could have focused on games, not his case.

Do you even know the details of what he did?  If you don't, then I don't know how you could come to the conclusions you reached.  Even if he did do something wrong, which everyone does at some point in life, he deserves a fair/reasonable punishment and timely resolution.

I think what is being said is that the fair and reasonable punishment COULD have been booting him off the team back in December.  Maybe WE possibly caused all this drama ourselves as an administration?

It's conceivable that WE used the NCAA as the "bad guy" to maintain a relationship with Jubril rather then being the bad cop.  After all, this team is very close knit...I don't envy coach that decision.

Wish Jubril great success in life, but I'm thinking we never find out the true extent.  Sure missed him this year though.

Quote from: vu84v2 on February 20, 2017, 10:58:11 AM

Quote from: VU2014 on February 19, 2017, 11:47:02 AM

QuoteThe NCAA does treat criminal issues and issues vs. the "program" differently. Academic problems and aid to an athlete which is outside the rules will be treated more harshly in a lot of cases than issues involving the criminal justice system. Whether that's fair or not is subject to opinion.

There is a reason why the NCAA is so harsh and academic issues and unauthorized financial compensation. It's because it is at the heart of the NCAA business model and financing structure. If they appear to start getting relax on academics and getting soft the student part of student athlete then it softens the case to say that they are student athletes therefore they shouldn't get paid. Same goes for if they start to allow student athletes to be blatantly paid.

If Male Football and basketball athletes start to get paid then 'Title IX' gets to become a problem and maybe through the courts they have to start paying their female counterparts which are a net loss for revenue and actually cost athletic departments $ because they can't sustain themselves financially. If basketball and football get paid then via the court system they maybe have to pay other student athletes in different sports. It's sort of the slippery slope argument. I believe I read in the Washington Post that in most athletic departments only Football and Mens basketball programs make a profit or break even, and those profits are used to subsidize most other athletic sports team at the college.

Thats why I believe the NCAA is so harsh on academic and cases of paying student athletes. If the NCAA was force to actually pay athletes I don't think Schools like Valpo would have a very large athletics program or competitive one. Now there is an argument for small stipends and paying for food while at school but then we're getting into a whole different debate.

I think that wh has a very good point here. I would add that the reason why the NCAA treats academic and aid issues more harshly is that they are within their legal domain to do so. There is no criminal code with laws related to discovery and due process that can supersede anything that the NCAA does. Consider, for example, a student-athlete arrested for theft and the police investigate the crime, charges are filed and the process through the courts ensues. I doubt that the NCAA can gain access to non-public information regarding a criminal investigation. Thus, if they suspend the student-athlete, they are at risk of him or her being found not guilty and they have (at least from a legal perspective) unjustly punished the student-athlete. For academic and aid issues, the NCAA is the governing and investigative body and member institutions agree to give them that power when they sign up as NCAA members.

Keep in mind the revenue from large team sports like VU football and track which pay out no scholarships but attract around 100 tuition paying students in each.

Many of which do NOT qualify for university funded academic scholarships either.

But you all make superb points...this is a give one, give ALL world since title 9.

Quote from: 78crusader on February 20, 2017, 03:51:57 PM
Fantastic makes some valid points IMO.

Paul

Yes, and this board attacks him for making some valid points and somehow surmizing that just because it's his first post that it isn't valid and would be better if it was his 3rd? 5th? 9th? post. This happens way too often on this board and I always feel the new poster gets the shaft simply because he is brand new. Some people lurk for a while and don't post but when a topic comes along they feel obligated to voice their opinion. That is all it is. Their opinion. No better or worse than anyone else's opinion.

I think it is significant to remind ourselves that nobody on this discussion board, including those declaring Jubril should have been dismissed from the team, knows the full facts of the situation. On the other hand, those who are familiar with most of the details or even who know all the specifics of the whole episode—the players, the players' families, the head coach, the assistant coaches, the Athletic Director, the legal staff who made the appeal, the President of Valparaiso University, and others—have put themselves and the university on record through expression of their words or by their actions that they believe the NCAA punishment is too harsh for the violation committed. Given those options, I will choose to side with the individuals possessing the most knowledge of the case.

I agree that he/she made some fantastic points in their initial post.

Quote from: Fantastic on February 20, 2017, 03:25:15 PMJ.A. should have been suspended by the coach and the university. For a university that prides itself on high ethics and morals, this is a disgrace. JA let his teammates down, his parents down, the university down, and every fan down. Then he was a distraction for the entire year. His teammates wearing black t-shirts to support him? That's what is ridiculous. It's not like he was in some accident and is showing courage to play again or walk again. He should have been kicked off the team in December. Then the team could have focused on games, not his case.

Yes, Jubril let his team down by breaking the rules. However the distraction comes from the disagreement between the University and the NCAA on the punishment. I believe there was some sort of gag rule where no one was to talk about it while the disagreement about punishment was being hashed out. That left everyone in the dark and frustrated thinking nothing was being done. The black t-shirts were support for Jabril prodding to get a answer from the NCAA and were made and worn before the final decision was given just before game time. So I don't think it was ridiculous to show support for their team mate hoping for his possible return at that time.

I don't even know how at this point anyone can call what the team did "ridiculous."  Showing team unity can have 1 of 3 possible effects - positive, negative, or no effect. Calling it "ridiculous" erroneously assumes that it can only have a negative outcome, which is no more likely than either of the other 2 possibilities.

It's just my opinion that when the coach and the team talk about their flat performance against Oakland and talk about the distractions I don't see how that can be positive. So I disagree it's "erroneous." It should be an honor and privilege to put on the Valpo jersey and each person that does so should be held to the highest standard. 

Quote from: Fantastic on February 21, 2017, 05:42:57 PMIt should be an honor and privilege to put on the Valpo jersey and each person that does so should be held to the highest standard. 

As stated that will get no arguments.

Quote from: Fantastic on February 21, 2017, 05:42:57 PMIt's just my opinion that when the coach and the team talk about their flat performance against Oakland and talk about the distractions I don't see how that can be positive.

Since everyone close to this situation thought the punishment to be excessive, the flat performance was predictable and perhaps cathartic. Its a difficult thing for human beings not to behave like human beings.

I think we are going in circles around here on the Jubril thing.

It is what is. NCAA made a decision and we have to live with it.

We'd all like to know what happen and all the details but we are not going hear anything about it till the end of the season, if ever. I hope Jubril sits down with Paul after the season to discuss what happened after the season. The team and the athletic department are not going to discuss it. It would be nothing but a distraction to elaborate on what happened right now.

I also find it quite hilarious that some folks are the moral/punishment jury who are declaring the punishment was justified when they know absolutely no details of the situation, while the President, AD, legal team and coaches are publicly disagreeing with the harshness of the punishment. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourselves.

Maybe for his future endeavors and employment Jubril would like it all to be forgotten and not discuss it with Paul or any other reporter. I stated this in my first post on this subject way after the thread had gone on for a month or two.

It truly is over, the punishment has been given out by the NCAA. Many deemed it excessive punishment but at the end of the day Jubril most likely wants to put it all behind him and focus on his future.

I know this is water well under the bridge and we all move on, but I just got MLB's Crusader Report email. Besides bringing readers up to speed on all the sports activity for the previous quarter, he usually writes an intro called "AD's INSIGHT."  Below is this issue's Insight. 

---

In the Valparaiso University Athletics department, character and integrity are indispensable to our mission. They are one of the four core values on which our program is built; student well-being, character and integrity, stewardship, and respect. As administrators, coaches, and mentors we have made a commitment to serve as role models and adhere to the highest standards of moral and ethical values through our personal and professional behavior. We are accountable for our words and actions and hold our student-athletes to the same standard.

In tough situations or when doing the right thing may put us at a competitive disadvantage, I am proud to say our staff and student-athletes demonstrate their understanding of these values and uphold them in their actions and decisions. In light of how our winter season has played out and in witnessing events throughout the national intercollegiate landscape, the principles of honesty and integrity are more entrenched in our programs than ever before.

This culture built on ethical conduct is fundamental to what makes us Valpo and something we take very seriously. I thank you, our most loyal fans, for continuing to support Valpo athletics as we build the character of our students by promoting honesty and fairness in competition and in the classroom.

In a nutshell: "We will always practice cautious overkill to protect the image of Valparaiso University athletics, regardless of how unfair the outcome may be to the student athlete who admits his guilt and places himself at our mercy."

Quote from: wh on March 01, 2017, 06:47:02 PM
In a nutshell: "We will always practice cautious overkill to protect the image of Valparaiso University athletics, regardless of how unfair the outcome may be to the student athlete who admits his guilt and places himself at our mercy."

Glad he feels enough pressure from the real world to make a post that so clearly defends his position.  I'm appreciative that we aren't vacating games.  I must admit I'm unaware if that would have been in the cards (as punishment) if we had played him with only a short suspension period?

Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 01, 2017, 06:59:14 PM
I'm appreciative that we aren't vacating games.  I must admit I'm unaware if that would have been in the cards (as punishment) if we had played him with only a short suspension period?

That's the big question.  Well, actually there are a lot more, but..... 

This was, I'm guessing, a one off situation confronting Valpo (certainly) but also the NCAA. We have not heard of any past precedents.  So......

What if the suspension was for, say, 6 games (more than a domestic abuse or DUI) immediately after UK then a reinstatement while information is gathered. Then the NCAA findings are: he's out for the rest of the year on top of the 6 already served.  Wins forfeited in that scenario?

OR

What if we self-reported the HC violation (based purely on a university rule) and didn't suspend him at all until the NCAA made determination.  Vacated wins?

IMO Unless the NCAA, UP FRONT, specifically notified VU that games would be definitely be vacated if he played at any time after UK, it would be a kangaroo court that should be brought to litigation. I know we are talking about the NCAA, but no one should be able to inflict punishments off the top of their heads with no precedent to support it.  And if this becomes the precedent and it is not enforced going forward (especially for P5 schools) this too IMO should be litigated.

This story seems applicable to this thread, not as a true apples-to-apples, but in an overarching sense of the NCAA's ability to impose penalties, including due to a player ruled ineligible after initially being ruled eligible: https://d1baseball.com/news/coastals-weisz-takes-ncaa/

Thanks for digging that up.  Didn't read every word but that was an eligibility situation.  In our case the university specifically stated that the student was in good standing.

Quote from: wh on March 01, 2017, 06:47:02 PM
In a nutshell: "We will always practice cautious overkill to protect the image of Valparaiso University athletics, regardless of how unfair the outcome may be to the student athlete who admits his guilt and places himself at our mercy."

Cautious overkill is better than being banned from postseason play because we tried covering up an acedemic matter. Considering the NCAA banned him the rest of the year, not the university, I'm not sure how we mismanaged the situation.

Quote from: a3uge on March 01, 2017, 08:19:29 PM

Quote from: wh on March 01, 2017, 06:47:02 PMIn a nutshell: "We will always practice cautious overkill to protect the image of Valparaiso University athletics, regardless of how unfair the outcome may be to the student athlete who admits his guilt and places himself at our mercy."

Cautious overkill is better than being banned from postseason play because we tried covering up an acedemic matter. Considering the NCAA banned him the rest of the year, not the university, I'm not sure how we mismanaged the situation.

Absolutely. Any games Jubril would have played in would have been forfeited.

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2017, 07:33:51 PMThanks for digging that up.  Didn't read every word but that was an eligibility situation.  In our case the university specifically stated that the student was in good standing.

This was an eligibility situation as well. The NCAA confirms this.

Quote from: VU2624 on March 01, 2017, 09:15:57 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2017, 07:33:51 PMThanks for digging that up.  Didn't read every word but that was an eligibility situation.  In our case the university specifically stated that the student was in good standing.

This was an eligibility situation as well. The NCAA confirms this.

Source?

Quote from: a3uge on March 01, 2017, 08:19:29 PM

Quote from: wh on March 01, 2017, 06:47:02 PM
In a nutshell: "We will always practice cautious overkill to protect the image of Valparaiso University athletics, regardless of how unfair the outcome may be to the student athlete who admits his guilt and places himself at our mercy."

Cautious overkill is better than being banned from postseason play because we tried covering up an acedemic matter. Considering the NCAA banned him the rest of the year, not the university, I'm not sure how we mismanaged the situation.

Yeah, that sounds all noble and everything, until you stop to consider what really just happened here. Two players were accused of receiving assistance from the same source. One pleads guilty and receives the death penalty. The other pleads innocent and walks away. That is not how justice should ever work. It sends the worst possible message about personal accountability and the importance of owning up to your mistakes.

Then to read a message from MLB claiming some sort of institutional moral high ground in regard to how it handled the situation, knowing that the individual who admitted their guilt was destroyed while the denier walked, has an overly defensive, self-serving sound to it.

Occam's razor. There's a reason the other name hasn't been connected with this since the one game.

Me not knowing anything about it. along with most everyone else. Could it be possible that one person Was guilty and the other  NOT. I would assume the University would look into both cases and not just the one who pleaded guilty. So evidently the University did not find sufficient proof of malfeasance to further punish the other player. If they didn't that would be a cover up that the NCAA would not go lightly on and something I would think they would have looked into. If someone pleads innocent why is it we assume they are lying?

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2017, 09:56:38 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on March 01, 2017, 09:15:57 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2017, 07:33:51 PMThanks for digging that up.  Didn't read every word but that was an eligibility situation.  In our case the university specifically stated that the student was in good standing.

This was an eligibility situation as well. The NCAA confirms this.

Source?

Was he cleared to play? No.

Therefore he was ineligible.

Quote from: wh on March 01, 2017, 10:19:53 PM

Quote from: a3uge on March 01, 2017, 08:19:29 PM

Quote from: wh on March 01, 2017, 06:47:02 PMIn a nutshell: "We will always practice cautious overkill to protect the image of Valparaiso University athletics, regardless of how unfair the outcome may be to the student athlete who admits his guilt and places himself at our mercy."

Cautious overkill is better than being banned from postseason play because we tried covering up an acedemic matter. Considering the NCAA banned him the rest of the year, not the university, I'm not sure how we mismanaged the situation.

Yeah, that sounds all noble and everything, until you stop to consider what really just happened here. Two players were accused of receiving assistance from the same source. One pleads guilty and receives the death penalty. The other pleads innocent and walks away. That is not how justice should ever work. It sends the worst possible message about personal accountability and the importance of owning up to your mistakes. Then to read a message from MLB claiming some sort of institutional moral high ground in regard to how it handled the situation, knowing that the individual who admitted their guilt was destroyed while the denier walked, has an overly defensive, self-serving sound to it.

...and you know this is how it went down how?

Quote from: VU2624 on March 01, 2017, 11:11:31 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2017, 09:56:38 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on March 01, 2017, 09:15:57 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2017, 07:33:51 PMThanks for digging that up.  Didn't read every word but that was an eligibility situation.  In our case the university specifically stated that the student was in good standing.

This was an eligibility situation as well. The NCAA confirms this.

Source?

Was he cleared to play? No.

Therefore he was ineligible.

This is a semantics issue, but I disagree that it is an academic eligibility issue -- it may be a discipline/suspension issue, but we don't know what the real basis is.  By violating the HC did he lose sufficient credits to be academically ineligible? In that regard, I go back to the university statement made prior to the NCAA decision and prior to the final release of the results -- "he continues to be a student in good standing."  However, in their official notification the university said "the University proposed a suspension for half of the season, however, the NCAA decided Jubril was ineligible to play in any regular or post-season games."  I believe the university was using these two terms interchangeably, but there is a difference between disciplinary suspension and academic ineligibility and the statement should have read: "however, the NCAA decided Jubril was ineligible to suspended from play in any regular or post-season games."  Yes, being suspended makes you ineligible to play, but there is a difference and I like my interpretation better  ;)

Considering the end result of this may have been part or all of what led to Alec being injured, i REALLY hope one of our beat reporters really digs in on this to find out as much of the story as possible. It doesn't seem to me on the surface there was much that could be done by our coaches or AD. Again the perils of a mid major. If this were a major school issuse you'd have 6 local reporters and a couple of national guys digging until they found something.

The NCAA is what it is and that's not going to change. I would just really like to know this wasn't botched on our end.

Quote from: VUBBFan on March 01, 2017, 10:59:51 PM
Me not knowing anything about it. along with most everyone else. Could it be possible that one person Was guilty and the other  NOT. I would assume the University would look into both cases and not just the one who pleaded guilty. So evidently the University did not find sufficient proof of malfeasance to further punish the other player. If they didn't that would be a cover up that the NCAA would not go lightly on and something I would think they would have looked into. If someone pleads innocent why is it we assume they are lying?

[/b]

Agreed.  I was thinking much the same thing when I read wh's comment, " Two players were accused of receiving assistance from the same source. One pleads guilty and receives the death penalty. The other pleads innocent and walks away. That is not how justice should ever work. It sends the worst possible message about personal accountability and the importance of owning up to your mistakes".  

Not sure he was implying that Max got away with something or not or that he lacked personal accountability.  It could be read that way however.

As far as my understanding, the manager stated he helped more than Jubril. Looks like maybe the initial belief was Max but that didn't pan out so my theory/assumption is it was someone who graduated last year. If that was true my guess is the department was looking at the possibility of one of our best post-season runs getting wiped away and worked their butt off to keep that from happening. We may never know but I have heard the investigation was really located at top levels which makes me think that, as disappointed as they are in the Jubril situation, they may have been able to avoid a much worse outcome as well. It's easy to look at what did happen but, as someone who has been involve in investigations like this, most times the bigger potential deal is the stuff that didn't happen or was prevented from happening that tells the truer story.

Quote from: crusader05 on March 02, 2017, 08:28:03 AM
As far as my understanding, the manager stated he helped more than Jubril. Looks like maybe the initial belief was Max but that didn't pan out so my theory/assumption is it was someone who graduated [or transferred] last year . If that was true my guess is the department was looking at the possibility of one of our best post-season runs getting wiped away and worked their butt off to keep that from happening. We may never know but I have heard the investigation was really located at top levels which makes me think that, as disappointed as they are in the Jubril situation, they may have been able to avoid a much worse outcome as well. It's easy to look at what did happen but, as someone who has been involve in investigations like this, most times the bigger potential deal is the stuff that didn't happen or was prevented from happening that tells the truer story.

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 02, 2017, 07:17:53 AM

Quote from: VU2624 on March 01, 2017, 11:11:31 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2017, 09:56:38 PM

Quote from: VU2624 on March 01, 2017, 09:15:57 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 01, 2017, 07:33:51 PMThanks for digging that up.  Didn't read every word but that was an eligibility situation.  In our case the university specifically stated that the student was in good standing.

This was an eligibility situation as well. The NCAA confirms this.

Source?

Was he cleared to play? No. Therefore he was ineligible.

This is a semantics issue, but I disagree that it is an academic eligibility issue -- it may be a discipline/suspension issue, but we don't know what the real basis is.  By violating the HC did he lose sufficient credits to be academically ineligible? In that regard, I go back to the university statement made prior to the NCAA decision and prior to the final release of the results -- "he continues to be a student in good standing."  However, in their official notification the university said "the University proposed a suspension for half of the season, however, the NCAA decided Jubril was ineligible to play in any regular or post-season games."  I believe the university was using these two terms interchangeably, but there is a difference between disciplinary suspension and academic ineligibility and the statement should have read: "however, the NCAA decided Jubril was ineligible to suspended from play in any regular or post-season games."  Yes, being suspended makes you ineligible to play, but there is a difference and I like my interpretation better  ;)

Semantics aside, he was ineligible.

You touch on something I've considered which is that there's simply more to the story than having a paper written for the player. Why would the school propose a half season suspension for that? It doesn't make sense. So I'll go with we don't have the full story or perhaps the story at all.

Just wondering.

If manager attempted to blackmail coach into giving him reference otherwise he would blow whistle on Jubril, have any criminal charges been filed on manager for blackmail? 

 :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

Honor Code violation ---- By contrast.....................

Kansas stays steady while dealing with off-court turmoil

STILLWATER, Okla. — When it was finally over, after top-ranked Kansas had made all the plays down the stretch, again, to win another close game, again, Bill Self took a moment to marvel at the Big 12's final standings.

In handling a good Oklahoma State team 90-85, the Jayhawks continued their dominance of a very good basketball league, putting the bow on their 13th consecutive conference championship — and winning it by four games.

"I thought this year would be as tough a year as we've had to try to win the league," Self said. "And it was. Fortunately, we won several games just like this game. ... The guys have been pretty good finishers."

That's apparent, and it's why Kansas is headed for a No. 1 seed in the NCAA tournament. Despite the program's tendency through the years to fade out in March, they'll be among the favorites to win it all.

But there have been other significant story lines, too. Allegations of off-court misbehavior ranging from vandalism to violence against women loom over the Jayhawks' season, darkening the picture — which is probably why Self didn't seem surprised by a question posed a little later:

"That's not true at all," Self said. "But that may be how people perceived it, but I think it's perceived that way because that's the way some media has reported it. We're not in a position to talk about a lot of that stuff like we'd like to."

He went on to describe "irresponsible actions," saying players had "done some things that we could have handled better." Those things include this list of allegations:

► Freshman guard Josh Jackson faces misdemeanor charges for allegedly damaging the car of a Kansas women's basketball player outside a Lawrence bar in December. McKenzie Calvert's car needed nearly $3,000 in repairs after Jackson allegedly kicked it after an argument. The nation's consensus No. 1 recruit, who is among 10 finalists for the Naismith Trophy as the nation's best player, has not been publicly disciplined.

► That incident apparently grew from a contentious relationship between sophomore guard Lagerald Vick and Calvert, the women's basketball player. The Kansas City Star reported Calvert had thrown a drink on Vick that night, precipitating Jackson's alleged vandalism.

► The newspaper also reported Vick had been the subject of an earlier university investigation that found he "likely hit" Calvert several times during 2015, and recommended a two-year probation.

► Most troubling, there's an ongoing investigation of a reported rape of a 16-year-old girl in the residence hall where the basketball players live, along with other students. Five players, including Frank Mason III — another Naismith finalist — Jackson, Vick, Tucker Vang and Mitch Lightfoot were listed in a police report as witnesses.

► During the rape investigation, police discovered drug paraphernalia in the residence hall. Sophomore forward Carlton Bragg entered into a diversion agreement after misdemeanor possession charges. Bragg was suspended for three games last month for violations of team rules.

► There's even a spinoff to the main plot lines. Calvert, who led the women's basketball team in scoring in five of its first eight games, has seen her minutes dwindle in the remainder of the season. Her father told the Kansas City Star she has been punished for making trouble for the men's players.

Self hasn't said much at all about the off-field issues — in part, he says, because he cannot. During a brief conversation Saturday with USA TODAY Sports, he referenced Title IX — likely in regard to the situation involving Vick and Calvert — and said, "We're not in a position to talk about a lot of that stuff like we'd like to." But last week, Self referred to that stuff as "crap and distractions," framing it in the context of a team playing through adversity and remaining focused on basketball.

"I would say that's a proud thing," he told reporters. "You know, as a coach, you want your team to be — to rally around things. You want them to be tough."

It's what coaches do, and never mind what it looks, sounds or reads like to anyone who thinks just maybe the correct prism isn't wins and losses and championship streaks and tournament seeding. But it's also where Self's reputation as a good guy might be playing a role in insulating Kansas from criticism. Over the years, his media-friendly approach has perhaps built up benefit of the doubt. To his credit, he stood in a hallway Saturday night and talked agreeably with a reporter about a topic he didn't want to discuss.

But take the same set of "crap and distractions" — and remember, we're talking about things that were self-inflicted — and apply it to a program headed by, say, Rick Pitino. Or John Calipari. What happens then? Might the temperature already have been turned up a notch or two?

"I have no idea," Self said. "But what have we done? What have we done that's bad? The kid kicked a car. That was handled. ... I know that we've been irresponsible in some ways, a couple of times irresponsible that we could have handled situations better and that kind of stuff. And I'm not denying any of that or running from any of that.

"But just because I don't talk about it or our players don't talk about it doesn't presume anything other than the fact that we can't talk about it."

So yeah, sure. This team has played through some distractions of its own making. In keeping with his style, Self remained pleasant throughout the conversation. And a few moments later, he was all smiles posing for photos with a small knot of Jayhawks fans in the lobby of the old arena.

In less than two weeks, the Jayhawks figure to be back in Oklahoma for the NCAA tournament. If the seeding predictions are correct — and they are — they'll post up in nearby Tulsa, a little more than 200 miles from Lawrence, for the first and second rounds. Win there and they'd glide to Kansas City, just 45 minutes from campus, for the Midwest Regional. Given their likely path, their obvious talent and their demonstrated ability to finish strong, it's very possible this bunch could overcome the program's proclivity for early NCAA exits. No one should be surprised to see them in Arizona at the Final Four.

But they'll bring baggage.

[SOURCE:  USAToday}

That is such bullsh!+.  It only proves how other schools attempt to handle their matters internally without NCAA oversight, and how an ethical program gets screwed for the year by self-reporting.

I know this is old and maybe this was already mentioned here and I missed it, but I guess that it would have been better if Jubril had been caught using Performance Enhancing Drugs rather than having an "academic issue".

QuoteThursday January 19th, 2017

Arizona guard Allonzo Trier has been cleared to play for the Wildcats in the wake of his indefinite suspension for testing positive for a performance-enhancing drug, ESPN's Jeff Goodman reports.

Trier has been cleared by the NCAA to return and can play in Saturday's game against UCLA.

According to Goodman, Trier's most recent drug test was negative, allowing him to now take the court.

Quote from: FWalum on March 07, 2017, 08:04:45 AMI know this is old and maybe this was already mentioned here and I missed it, but I guess that it would have been better if Jubril had been caught using Performance Enhancing Drugs rather than having an "academic issue".

QuoteThursday January 19th, 2017 Arizona guard Allonzo Trier has been cleared to play for the Wildcats in the wake of his indefinite suspension for testing positive for a performance-enhancing drug, ESPN's Jeff Goodman reports. Trier has been cleared by the NCAA to return and can play in Saturday's game against UCLA. According to Goodman, Trier's most recent drug test was negative, allowing him to now take the court.

I guess that's one way of couching the Trier situation. It would be wrong but it's an angle one might take.

Arizona fans were just as revolted all during Trier's suspension because there was no information provided as to why he wasn't playing as some on this board.

https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/846831329799032835

How appropriate that this thread end on page 23.

Unless of course you use a different number of posts per page than I do.

How appropriate that USH episode #23 had as it's guest #23, Jubril Adekoya.  That was a really enjoyable interview with a mature and grounded young man.  I didn't know that he holds both a Nigerian and a British passport.  As far a European pro teams are concerned he won't count against the 2 US player limit.  Good for him.

Quote from: bbtds on March 29, 2017, 01:03:15 AM
How appropriate that this thread end on page 23.

Unless of course you use a different number of posts per page than I do.

When I first read this on my mobile device, it was page 28!

Then again, if people keep commenting, it won't end on page 23.  It is very appropriate that on page 23 of this thread that episode 23 of Union Street Hoops was announced/recorded with Jubril Adekoya as guest, who wore number 23 for four years while playing for Valparaiso.

Great interview with a fascinating young man.

Great interview and interesting insights from a thoughtful guy. His comments that his suspension would likely have been zero games if he played at a Power 6 lends credence to what others have mentioned - this was something minor, the university likely played too nicely with the NCAA, and the NCAA still hosed him - and that the "rules are rules" crowd whiffed badly here (it's not really a rule if it only applies to the half of teams who have the least amount of infrastructure to defend themselves).

Quote from: bbtds on March 29, 2017, 01:03:15 AMUnless of course you use a different number of posts per page than I do

Quote from: covufan on March 29, 2017, 09:28:46 AMWhen I first read this on my mobile device, it was page 28!

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 29, 2017, 01:16:52 PM
Great interview and interesting insights from a thoughtful guy. His comments that his suspension would likely have been zero games if he played at a Power 6 lends credence to what others have mentioned - this was something minor, the university likely played too nicely with the NCAA, and the NCAA still hosed him - and that the "rules are rules" crowd whiffed badly here (it's not really a rule if it only applies to the half of teams who have the least amount of infrastructure to defend themselves).

He also added that Keith Carter would have gotten another year if he played at a Power 6. 

Absolutely stinks that Valpo can't get the kind of breaks the big schools get.  Makes me wonder if it's because the NCAA is biased against small schools, or if the big schools just throw more resources at presenting their arguments?

Hard to know if Jubril was treated fairly or not, since I still have no idea what he actually did.  However, if Jubril and Paul think it was unfair, then I'll have to trust their judgement.

Great interview. I would still have liked to heard him apologize. Didn't have to discuss details, just a quick "Hey, I really got hosed here, but I put myself in a bad situation." Wish him the best at the next level. Should have a nice career overseas.

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 29, 2017, 01:16:52 PMGreat interview and interesting insights from a thoughtful guy. His comments that his suspension would likely have been zero games if he played at a Power 6 lends credence to what others have mentioned - this was something minor, the university likely played too nicely with the NCAA, and the NCAA still hosed him - and that the "rules are rules" crowd whiffed badly here (it's not really a rule if it only applies to the half of teams who have the least amount of infrastructure to defend themselves).

The kid is allowed to be in denial. Takes away the responsibility.

QuoteThe kid is allowed to be in denial. Takes away the responsibility.

And you know what actually happened how, exactly? How "responsible" of you.

Quote from: VU2624 on March 30, 2017, 02:35:32 PM
The kid is allowed to be in denial. Takes away the responsibility.

Saying he wouldn't have served a game is clearly employing hyperbole on Jubril's part, but the point stands. This kid just lost 2/3 of his senior season (and VU got sandbagged) in the same season that North Carolina made its 2nd consecutive Final Four while under investigation for the single biggest incidence of institutional academic fraud in NCAA history (not hyperbole, IMO). That's how the NCAA works (to paraphrase another of his lines).

Between twitter and this thread, I've said it a dozen times...Jerry Tarkanian couldn't have been more right when he said "the NCAA is so mad at Kentucky that they're giving Cleveland State two more years of probation." Money programs get break after break while the NCAA uses smaller schools to assert its moral authority. It just so happened that Jubril and Valpo got caught in UNC's crossfire.



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https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847996872195289088

Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 30, 2017, 03:46:12 PM

QuoteThe kid is allowed to be in denial. Takes away the responsibility.

And you know what actually happened how, exactly? How "responsible" of you.

Since Valpo reportedly was offering up a 15 game suspension, Jubril is in complete denial of his responsibility in his situation. It was never a zero games situation. I realize this is a homer board where paranoia regarding the NCAA runs strong but a realism amongst the principals in the matter need to be undertaken.

How is he in denial?

He owned it but mentioned he thinks he was treated unfairly. I'm a total homer but I can take off my blinders and say if he was at a P6 more $ was at stake for success then there may have been a different outcome.

It's not paranoia either. You clearly must not be paying attention to college athletics if you think there isn't different levels or treatment in the ajudication. But for enough if you chose to take a naive stance.

Quote from: VU2014 on April 01, 2017, 12:22:25 PM
How is he in denial?

He owned it but mentioned he thinks he was treated unfairly.

Maybe he's thinking about this:

"One day, in the garden, where young George Washington often amused himself hacking his mother's pea-sticks, he unluckily tried the edge of his hatchet on the body of a beautiful young English cherry-tree, which he barked so terribly, that I don't believe the tree ever got the better of it. The next morning  George's father finding out what had befallen his tree, which, by the by, was a great favourite, came into the house, and with much warmth asked for the mischievous author, declaring at the same time, that he would not have taken five guineas for his tree. Nobody could tell him any thing about it. Presently George and his hatchet made their appearance. George, said his father, do you know who killed that beautiful little cherry-tree yonder in the garden? This was a tough question; and George staggered under it for a moment; but quickly recovered himself: and looking at his father, with the sweet face of youth brightened with the inexpressible charm of all-conquering truth, he bravely cried out, "I can't tell a lie, Pa; you know I can't tell a lie. I did cut it with my hatchet."--Run to my arms, you dearest boy, cried his father in transports, run to my arms; glad am I, George, that you killed my tree; for you have paid me for it a thousand fold. Such an act of heroism in my son, is more worth than a thousand trees, though blossomed with silver, and their fruits of purest gold."

Now, let me fix it for Jubril:

Such an act of heroism in my son, is more worth than a thousand trees, though blossomed with silver, and their fruits of purest gold.absolutely nothing. I am going to punish you so severely that you, your family, your teammates and your friends will never forget.

Those scumbags in the NCAA had the nerve to take away Jubril's (honors student) senior year from him but they don't punish UNC for INSTITUTIONAL CHEATING with FAKE CLASSES!!!?!?!?!  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

The NCAA is F^#*ing JOKE! Absolutely ZERO integrity! All those dirtbags care about is preserving their own @$$e$ and $$$. What joke.

https://twitter.com/JeffEisenberg/status/918855452636733440

To add insult to injury: the NCAA was scheduled to release the academic fraud scandal report last Friday, but they allowed North Carolina to dictate the timing and delayed its release one week at the request of the Tarheels because the original date conflicted with the school's launch of a $4.3-billion fundraising campaign last week.  :o

It certainly hurts the reputation of the institution and the value of its degree when all students could have taken the bogus class.

One word for NCAA and their brilliant decision. SAD!!!!!
And these same people supposedly run college athletics with all sorts of rules and guidelines? They could not MANAGE any business IMO. They clearly are in it to protect the bigger schools. If a mid or low major had done what UNC did I imagine the penalty would of been very severe. Double standard is what NCAA stands for. So glad the FBI is handling the other investigation and NOT the NCAA!!!!

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Quote from: vufan75 on October 13, 2017, 11:54:49 AM
One word for NCAA and their brilliant decision. SAD!!!!!
And these same people supposedly run college athletics with all sorts of rules and guidelines? They could not MANAGE any business IMO. They clearly are in it to protect the bigger schools. If a mid or low major had done what UNC did I imagine the penalty would of been very severe. Double standard is what NCAA stands for. So glad the FBI is handling the other investigation and NOT the NCAA!!!!

Is there any chance that the FBI could file charges against NCAA leaders for not handling disciplinary practices fairly? Are they breaking any laws or do the mid-majors and low-majors have to break away from the high-majors by resigning from the NCAA? After a while you can only take so much crap from above before the lower members have to say "enough is enough" and quit the organization.

https://twitter.com/BryanAGraham/status/918844751163592704

Was it an A- instead of an A because they didn't close the final quotation marks?

https://twitter.com/MattHayesCFB/status/918900323820998657

Quote from: VU2014 on October 13, 2017, 10:12:34 AMthe NCAA had the nerve to take away Jubril's (honors student) senior year from him but they don't punish UNC for INSTITUTIONAL CHEATING with FAKE CLASSES!!!?!?!?!

Jubril was certainly on my mind this morning, reading the news.

The NYT summary suggests that the NCAA declared it was up to the school to decide if it was academic fraud or not. UNC apparently claims it was was not. And the NCAA somehow didn't have enough evidence to declare that the classes represented impermissible benefits given to student athletes. Apparently about half of the students in the classes were non-athletes.

I hope it's a significant hit to UNC's academic reputation. I hope it doesn't tar us _all_ too much by implication.

UNC did apparently have their academic accreditation suspended for a year, a couple of years back, over the issue. Apparently this almost never happens to a research university of UNC's caliber. But, they're back in regular/good standing now with their accrediting body.

Quote from: agibson on October 13, 2017, 01:31:52 PM

Quote from: VU2014 on October 13, 2017, 10:12:34 AMthe NCAA had the nerve to take away Jubril's (honors student) senior year from him but they don't punish UNC for INSTITUTIONAL CHEATING with FAKE CLASSES!!!?!?!?!

The NYT summary suggests that the NCAA declared it was up to the school to decide if it was academic fraud or not. UNC apparently claims it was was not. And the NCAA somehow didn't have enough evidence to declare that the classes represented impermissible benefits given to student athletes. Apparently about half of the students in the classes were non-athletes.

For many of the student-athletes, especially basketball and football players, the courses were listed as "independent study classes," which meant the athlete was the only student enrolled for that class. That makes athlete participation in those classes 100%. Also, even if we use the statistic North Carolina tries to hide behind—that half the students were non-athletes—then we also have to remember athletes are only about 4% of the student population (basketball and football players less than 1%). Since North Carolina has fine math and accounting programs familiar with statistics, they certainly should conclude that this data would prove numerous athletes were purposely and unethically being directed by advisers to take the sham classes.


This also would raise the question about the non-athletes taking the courses: was a certain department (or more than one) using these classes for particular dishonest purposes, such as to artificially bolster the gpa of its students in order to keep those students eligible for receiving financial aid or to retain those students otherwise in danger of academic dismissal and thus enhance the department's enrollment figures? 

https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/918913447550525441

The only takeaway here is that any institution that cooperates with the NCAA in the future is a willing dupe.

A really good article. It shows how UNC sacrificed its academic integrity for its basketball program.
https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/919007808590401536

Here is another article well worth reading. It makes a case that North Carolina's  fraudulent (non)classes can be seen as the biggest academic scandal yet, but the NCAA (lack of) action is an even greater scandal that has stripped the organization of any credibility. Indeed, the NCAA has betrayed its own mission statement, which declares "In the collegiate model of sports, the young men and women competing on the field or court are students first, athletes second." The piece also concludes that university athletic programs are crazy to be open and to cooperate with the NCAA in any academic situation: "The days when schools with major athletic programs routinely take pre-emptive action to punish themselves to curry favor with the NCAA are probably over." [Adekoya's situation is a prime example.]    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-10-13/ncaa-proves-once-again-it-doesn-t-care-about-classes (https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-10-13/ncaa-proves-once-again-it-doesn-t-care-about-classes)

Interesting stat:


Valparaiso University Men's Basketball budget (According to Mark Adams): $2.5 million
North Carolina University Legal Fees to Fight NCAA (According to NY Post): $18 million

How screwed up is the NCAA? At the same time that the NCAA refuses to punish North Carolina for fake classes, they decide to punish a player at North Carolina State for taking legitimate classes:
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article178677026.html (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article178677026.html)

Running through this old thread, what comes to light is there was an accusation of cheating by two students/players by some student  manager. Two players were questioned ( Jubril and Max ). One plead guilty the other innocent. It seems the consensus of the people on this forum, was that the one pleading innocent got away with it.

In light of the current Skara situation. It may be that he was the second person and not Max who was involved.

It just goes to say we ( including Myself ) jump to conclusions way too early sometimes without all the actual facts. I think it's human nature to want to have things closed off and answered. Then if they're not, we make up our own minds of what we think it should be.

Could all be all unrelated or there were more than two students involved in the cheating but I just wanted to say something.