I'd go watch a game at Illinois!
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
I know we are without Peters, but seems strange that we beat a 1, 3 and 4 seed. I haven't looked at any numbers concerning the participants, but my gut really doesn't think that Oakland should be an 8 seed either.
Taking a quick peek at records. Based on overall records, I think you could make an argument for Valpo as the best 7 seed, at the moment. And for Oakland as a middling 8 seed.
Oakland could go higher if you like late-season momentum, and are willing to discount the tournament loss. Or, of course, if bad NIT auto-bids lose in their tournaments.
Valpo could easily go lower, depending on how much people weight Alec being out.
There seem to be 11-12 NIT auto-bids left that could be used. That could very easily knock Valpo out. All play Saturday. Many play today, tomorrow, or both. Arlington and Princeton play Sunday, if they don't lose by then. (America East has a bizarre tournament format; Wednesday, Monday, Saturday; plenty of rest.) Root for chalk!
Hard to say which would be better for Valpo. A 7-2 NIT game, or similar. Or a CIT or CBI game.
Hopefully the team can get up for whatever game it plays, in the post-season! Based on past years, this seems not at all a given. A task for the coaching staff, perhaps, and for team leaders among the players.
I suppose the thinking behind playing in the NIT/CIT/CBI is to further develop the youngsters? Frankly, with how this season has gone, I wouldn't be opposed to turning down a bid and turning your attention to next season.
Playing more games means formally practicing more and provides attention to next year. Coaches want to practice. Valpo will play....somewhere.
Even the experts don't know how the NIT will decide. Valpo's record and resume says they are an NIT Team but the NIT knows Alec won't be playing. Not sure if they should be taking into account Alec's injury. Based on merit, Valpo deserves to be in.
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/839687084235374593
Vandy is being talked in the conversation of Last 4 in/Last 4 out talk. Part of me wants to see Bryce get in but another part of me sort of wants to play Vandy in the NIT and beat them (it would be tough without Alec).
Could you imagine the narrative of Bryce's Vandy vs his old team Valpo (with the players he recruited & left on Valpo).
I have no ill will over the whole Bryce leaving and I completely understand but I would really want that win. That win would feel so good.
We need the rest of the one-bid conference expected winners to win. Otherwise most of them will sent to NIT with Oakland.
Middle Tenn, Nevada, Texas Arl, Vermont, Princeton, Akron, CSU Bakersfield, Texas Southern, UC Irvine, North Dakota, NC Central, & New Orleans all need to win their conference tournaments.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 09, 2017, 01:22:50 PM
Even the experts don't know how the NIT will decide. Valpo's record and resume says they are an NIT Team but the NIT knows Alec won't be playing. Not sure if they should be taking into account Alec's injury. Based on merit, Valpo deserves to be in.
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/839687084235374593
Should get a kick starter going to fund "VU2014" deep analysis and understanding of VU recruiting. Well done! The twitter verse is not my forte....Face Book was "barely" a thing when we graduated. Keep the flood gates open Sir!
Quote from: VU2014 on March 09, 2017, 01:22:50 PMValpo's record and resume says they are an NIT Team but the NIT knows Alec won't be playing. Not sure if they should be taking into account Alec's injury. Based on merit, Valpo deserves to be in.
I don't even know how they're "supposed" to handle it. Even the NCAA committee.
If a player was injured during a loss, and will be back for the tournament, they'll take that into account. Sort of helping to explain a questionable loss. The extent to which they account for this seems to be subjective.
But, if a key player will be _out_ for the tournament, it's not clear to what extent they're supposed to discount a team's accomplishments.
Some sites talk about the committee not being supposed to "project" into the future, being more a matter of rewarding resumee. I don't know if it matters that they have evidence (e.g. 1-2 with a loss to Milwaukee) of Valpo's performance without Alec. They're not left wondering "how big of a drop off will it be?". They actually have some evidence...
But, frankly, I'm not sure we _want_ to draw a "last four out" kind of team. Without Alec maybe we're better off against a good-but-not-great mid-major. If the team can get up for the game.
Quote from: agibson on March 09, 2017, 05:55:24 PMBut, frankly, I'm not sure we _want_ to draw a "last four out" kind of team. Without Alec maybe we're better off against a good-but-not-great mid-major. If the team can get up for the game.
Agree. Matt should make the call but he should weigh the risk vs reward.
Open question. Suppose we are seeded as a 7 and had to travel to California to play a 2016 level St Mary's team. Could we in any way compete? Would Matt be afraid of things getting out of hand? Our season has already sputtered down the stretch and a new embarrassment could be counterproductive for the freshmen.
QuoteOpen question. Suppose we are seeded as a 7 and had to travel to California to play a 2016 level St Mary's team. Could we in any way compete? Would Matt be afraid of things getting out of hand? Our season has already sputtered down the stretch and a new embarrassment could be counterproductive for the freshmen.
We are with out a doubt not as good as last year, but even without Alec I think we could "compete" but it would honestly be up to the guys to be energized and actually get up for the game. After losing Alec the air kind of came out of the balloon in terms of energy, especially after NKU loss. By no means would be favored to win. We'd be heavy underdogs going into there place. We are super then and missing an NBA level talent. I think some kind of postseason play would be great for Micah, Smits and Sorolla.
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2017, 08:59:12 PM
Quote from: agibson on March 09, 2017, 05:55:24 PMBut, frankly, I'm not sure we _want_ to draw a "last four out" kind of team. Without Alec maybe we're better off against a good-but-not-great mid-major. If the team can get up for the game.
Agree. Matt should make the call but he should weigh the risk vs reward.
Open question. Suppose we are seeded as a 7 and had to travel to California to play a 2016 level St Mary's team. Could we in any way compete? Would Matt be afraid of things getting out of hand? Our season has already sputtered down the stretch and a new embarrassment could be counterproductive for the freshmen.
Are people really paying attention to the first round of the NIT to the point where you'd feel embarrassment by a big loss?
Quote from: a3uge on March 09, 2017, 09:39:16 PMAre people really paying attention to the first round of the NIT to the point where you'd feel embarrassment by a big loss?
My or your reaction is not important but what would a first round BIG loss in the NIT do for the 17-18 team mindset? Again we hired Matt to make these calls and I would trust his judgement, but this would not be risk free.
Playing more games, getting more practice and evaluating players is always a good thing, whether it is NIT, CIT or CBI. That being said with the state of the team, if get an NIT bid they will likely get smoked in the first round. I am sure people will disagree but to get more practice and development Valpo may be better off competing in the CBI or CIT. The NIT is not all that prestigious and more games and more practices with lower competition may be beneficial for next year.
I don't think there was any way Valpo attended the Vegas 16 (since we've already been there this season), but looks like there will be no Vegas 16 Tournament this year.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/basketball/vegasmadness/vegas-16-postseason-tournament-won-t-be-played-year
Vegas 16 postseason tournament won't be played this year
By MARK ANDERSON
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
Vegas 16 selection chairman Jim Livengood said he still believes the postseason basketball tournament will work, but it won't take place this year.
"We really thought over the last two weeks we still had a good chance," said Livengood, a former UNLV athletic director. "We felt we needed more confirmation and assurance that teams would be there."
The Vegas 16 launched last year, but had trouble from the start when organizers invited eight teams. Sparse attendance at Mandalay Bay Events Center marked the debut of the tournament, won by Old Dominion, but organizers believed they had a strong concept that would eventually catch on.
Livengood said he still believes in the format, which is modeled after football bowls where fans travel to experience the host city as much as the game itself.
But Livengood said playing two weeks after Selection Sunday was problematic because many teams didn't want to play so long after conference tournaments had ended. He also said competing with the more established College Basketball Invitational and CollegeInsider.com Tournament was difficult.
"Also, more and more we were seeing from a contractual sense if you weren't in the NCAA Tournament or (National Invitation Tournament), you were not in the postseason," Livengood said.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/839933175266701312
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840060930847252481
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/840064129167642625
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2017, 11:19:42 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 09, 2017, 09:39:16 PMAre people really paying attention to the first round of the NIT to the point where you'd feel embarrassment by a big loss?
My or your reaction is not important but what would a first round BIG loss in the NIT do for the 17-18 team mindset? Again we hired Matt to make these calls and I would trust his judgement, but this would not be risk free.
Well their last game, as it stands now, was a loss to a 10 seed in the conference tournament. So I don't think getting blown out by a decentish team in the NIT will do much more to hurt their confidence.
A game with TCU would be great! Good batch of Alums here in DFW!!
If TCU can beat Kansas, Valpo can beat TCU :popcorn:
Kansas didn't have Jackson (potential #1 pick in the NBA draft) in that TCU game.
Also its classic Bill Self basketball too drop games to lesser teams. A lot KU's guy didn't get up to play that game... TCU's not bad but they are not that good. Could we beat them without Alec and a super short bench? Who knows.
I think any postseason games Valpo plays in the X-Factor for Valpo being competitive will be Valpo's mindset going into the game. Its been such a deflating season for us, based on factors that were out Valpo's control. If the guys really want it then I think Valpo has a chance against most of the likelt NIT teams.
Vermont just won their Conference Tournament (barely). Small boost to Valpo's chances of getting an invite to the NIT.
Still depends how the NIT decides treat Valpo with the Alec Peters injury.
We would beat TCU, regardless of them having beaten Kansas. I would love to see that game. I have a lot of friends that went to TCU, and I completed my MBA from the school.
I believe that Rhode Island also won today.
I wonder if USC will make it in. maybe if not they face Valpo in the first round!
Rhode island won advances to play VCU tomorrow. Princeton won in OT playsYale tomorrow for the Ivy league title
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840732149888253952
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840736093402234881
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840736204224106496
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/840740672223211520
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840741570647334913
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840742189453971456
Sounds like they are taking into a count Alec's injury. Not boding well for us...
Which is crap. I believe that Cincinnati was still given their deserved NCAA seed when Kenyon Martin went down many years ago.
Quote from: valpotx on March 12, 2017, 12:10:12 AM
Which is crap. I believe that Cincinnati was still given their deserved NCAA seed when Kenyon Martin went down many years ago.
Cincinnati got the seed they were expected to get considering the injury to Martin happened in the C-USA Tournament, instead of January or February, so they didn't have enough sample size to know what affect the injury would have on the Bearcats chances in the tournament. If Valpo had made the dance without Alec, we might have had some consideration for a good seed, if we held up well without him, but we lost our last two games, both important games for any hopes in the postseason.
I will be shocked (ever since the L to Milwaukee I would've been shocked) to hear Valpo called for the NIT. Ya know, unless the NCAA is going to buy Valpo dinner (and by dinner I mean like soup) after screwing us so many times lately.
Quote from: M on March 12, 2017, 09:20:37 AM
I will be shocked (ever since the L to Milwaukee I would've been shocked) to hear Valpo called for the NIT. Ya know, unless the NCAA is going to buy Valpo dinner (and by dinner I mean like soup) after screwing us so many times lately.
The thing is, we have a better RPI than Richmond, Ohio State, Syracuse (seriously, they don't even belong in the NIT), Iowa, Boise State, and Fresno State.
And yeah, RPI isn't a good metric, in the sense that the power conference schools have inflated RPIs due to teams in their conference not having to play on the road. So we should theoretically have a better RPI, given a balanced schedule.
On paper there's a good argument against any of those teams, strictly based on resume and ignoring the Peters situation.
Quote from: a3uge on March 12, 2017, 09:52:15 AM
Quote from: M on March 12, 2017, 09:20:37 AM
I will be shocked (ever since the L to Milwaukee I would've been shocked) to hear Valpo called for the NIT. Ya know, unless the NCAA is going to buy Valpo dinner (and by dinner I mean like soup) after screwing us so many times lately.
The thing is, we have a better RPI than Richmond, Ohio State, Syracuse (seriously, they don't even belong in the NIT), Iowa, Boise State, and Fresno State.
And yeah, RPI isn't a good metric, in the sense that the power conference schools have inflated RPIs due to teams in their conference not having to play on the road. So we should theoretically have a better RPI, given a balanced schedule.
On paper there's a good argument against any of those teams, strictly based on resume and ignoring the Peters situation.
We are pretty beat up this year with only 8 scholarship players available. I'd be happy with whatever decision coach and the seniors make. But I'm concerned we aren't really competitive mentally at this juncture.
Time will tell, but I know I was done as a senior after conference (track n field) and finishing in 2nd, just missing out the automatic qualification to Regionals. Competing for 4-years of year round practice 3+ hours a day all slammed home. I was DONE! Think it's feasible that SHANE could also be in that type of mental space.
BUT he can be on a more national stage if we are invited to the NIT. More steps towards a European bball career, visibility is key in sports.
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840951688617967616
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840951784516513793
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840951888438784000
https://twitter.com/nybuckets/status/840952344552583168
I think we will be in, but our seed will be low. Unless Shane and Tevonn have monster games (which is possible), I doubt we win a game. If they go on a tear, and Sorolla shows up, we have a shot. Would rather see Lexus at the helm instead of Micah.
If we needed a last straw then maybe I watched it happen. UC Davis 50- UC Irvine 47. That puts Irvine as an additional NIT auto bid. Just last week Irvine had pounded Davis by I think they said 30 points.
I absolutely do not want to see Vandy in (NCAA) and Illinois St or Rhode island out. It is like an incestuous relationship. Vandy matches up well with Florida and has beaten them 3 times. So instead of Florida dropping appropriately they conclude Vandy (19 wins) must be better than they look. Vandy is another team we would have beaten in November.
Wait! I forgot. They screwed Bryce last year so they will make it up to him tonight. :'(
Again with the state of the team, would Valpo be better off paying several games in the CIT/CBI instead of being a sacrifice lamb in the first round of the NIT? The NIT is really nothing special where a bid gives them great prestige.
According to Paul's Twitter Poll: 62% of fans (including some HL rivals voting) want Valpo's season to end compared to 38% think we should play in the CIT/CBI if we get an invite.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/840674026540404736
I am shocked by that result. maybe 62 percent that Hillary Clinton should never run again for office? The more practice and games you play, the better - there is a lot of player analysis to be done for next year.
Reading all of the NIT bracket predictions(there are a few)and they all have us as either a six seed, eight seed or out!!! One has us playing Iowa, one against Mississippi and another facing Illinois. It's all a crap shoot ATM...I guess we will know in around two hours...
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2017, 01:13:21 PM
According to Paul's Twitter Poll: 62% of fans (including some HL rivals voting) want Valpo's season to end compared to 38% think we should play in the CIT/CBI if we get an invite.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/840674026540404736
Same poll performed after several 15 win seasons and it's 99% for. VU fans may just need some detoxing.
Valpo is in the NIT! A bit of a surprise even though the resume proved we deserved the invite.
We are playing University of Illinois in the 1st round of the NIT. We are a 7 seed
Well....shocked we got in! Pretty happy with the draw. Might as well win the whole darn thing!!
Not only did we get in, we got a winable game vs a team that just fired their coach.
Reggie Minton the NIT Committee Chairman said Ohio State & UNC Asheville were the last two out. No teams turned down invites this year.
We were probably the last 2 teams in.
Would have been great to draw Indiana. 16-15 Georgia Tech gets a home game vs them... They had a 106 RPI.
QuoteNot only did we get in, we got a winable game vs a team that just fired their coach.
Yep Groce got fired yesterday. It really comes down to Shane/Tevonn/Sorolla have good games, good solid PG play from Lexus or maybe someone steps up. We will have to want to want it more.
UofI players may not really "want it". We have a punchers chance even with the no Alec and the very short bench.
Alec reacts on Twitter to the cruel twist that Valpo will play Illinois near his home, and he won't be able to play. :(
[tweet]841089714421682177[/tweet]
Quote from: M on March 12, 2017, 09:20:37 AM
I will be shocked (ever since the L to Milwaukee I would've been shocked) to hear Valpo called for the NIT. Ya know, unless the NCAA is going to buy Valpo dinner (and by dinner I mean like soup) after screwing us so many times lately.
bbtds said:
QuoteThat just means they enjoy screwing Valpo and will do it as many times as possible. NIT not going to happen.
I'll be the first one to say it, Holy Cow! Was I wrong or what?
This is when you take credit for the goal by saying the goal wouldn't happen.
If it wasn't for BBTDS there would be no Valpo in the NIT!!!!
Three common opponents with Illinois: Detroit, Northern Kentucky, and BYU.
Not sure what there is to learn. Seems like so long ago for both teams...
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2017, 08:01:15 PMUofI players may not really "want it". We have a punchers chance even with the no Alec and the very short bench.
Good definition. Burn the play book and pretend this is the 17-18 season. Could be fun.
Quote from: justducky on March 12, 2017, 08:34:22 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2017, 08:01:15 PMUofI players may not really "want it". We have a punchers chance even with the no Alec and the very short bench.
Good definition. Burn the play book and pretend this is the 17-18 season. Could be fun.
When's the last time the HL sent (3) teams to the NCAA and NIT post season? Not ideal for us, but turned out the best we could get.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 12, 2017, 08:37:02 PMWhen's the last time the HL sent (3) teams to the NCAA and NIT post season? Not ideal for us, but turned out the best we could get.
2011 UWM and CSU to NIT. Butler to NCAA.
Tuesday night, 6:15 PM central. VU still on spring break, should be plenty of alums in driving distance (closer than Detroit!) and plenty of students with friends they could crash with.
Babysitter acquired. If anyone wants to car pool from Valpo, feel free to PM me. My first preference would be pretty minimal, more or less straight to the game, straight home.
This is a possible win. It is amazing that Illinois has underachieved in basketball for such a large state, alumni base, and great talent in the Chicago, St. Louis and Peoria areas. same goes for DePaul but we know they have internal "family" issues there.
Quote from: justducky on March 12, 2017, 08:39:26 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 12, 2017, 08:37:02 PMWhen's the last time the HL sent (3) teams to the NCAA and NIT post season? Not ideal for us, but turned out the best we could get.
2011 UWM and CSU to NIT. Butler to NCAA.
Three way tie in the league. Milwaukee got the NIT auto-bid and a 5 seed in the NIT. Butler got the NCAA auto-bid out or the HL 2 seed, was seeded on the 8 line and was national runner-up of course. CSU got an NIT 2 seed at-large. Bizarre.
Paul Oren says the last VU at-large was 2002-03 (think I have that right) when supposedly we got the bid because we agreed to play on 24 hours notice. Not sure I've heard that whole story.
Surprised and excited that our guys get to play in a good tournament, and that Peters being injured didn't kill that possibility for everyone else. We have come a long ways in reputation ever since the NIT stiff armed us in 2000-2001.
I'm not seeing anything from Valpo about tickets.
There are pretty good seats available from Illinois. For example, third row.
Looks like everything is $10 or $20 (plus $14 in fees, naturally...).
Well, on my mobile it looked like it was going to let me buy tickets. Now, on the desktop version of their website I see something about 9 AM ticket sales, with an "I FUND Member Presale" until then.
And now I'm getting "due to heavy demand, you have been placed in a virtual waiting room" messages.
But, anyway, some indication that tickets won't be exorbitantly priced. (And that they might be much cheaper walk-up, possibly avoiding fees...)
Who knows, maybe it was a make-up call by the NCAA. ::)
Quote from: agibson on March 12, 2017, 09:06:11 PMBut, anyway, some indication that tickets won't be exorbitantly priced. (And that they might be much cheaper walk-up, possibly avoiding fees...)
Second hand from the VU ticket manager:
"Tickets go on sale tomorrow at 9am and our [VU] fans should look in sections 134 & 135. All tickets will be sold through Illinois."
Green Bay an UIC both in CBI, Green Bay gets UMKC, UIC gets Stony Brook>
This is a great thing. Nice to not see the season go entirely down the drain into no-postseason-land, as it appeared for the past week. I can't believe a few posters are wringing hands and moaning about not wanting to play in the NIT because of worries about "competitiveness." With due respect, that might be the most short-sighted perspective I've ever seen here.
Even if we get blown out (we won't, though), it's still worth it in *every* possible respect. It's still an extra few days of practice (at least), another well-deserved game for our seniors Shane and Nick, another tournament game against a quality Power 5 opponent for the returning players, oh, and another game on *national television* to help recruiting.
Stop moping. VU fans would have happily given up limbs for an NIT berth against *anyone* from 1977 through 1995, much less one against a Big Ten team from a neighboring state. Again... this is a great thing.
But, on a lark, I went through UIUC's mobile interface, I think probably the mobile equivalent of
http://www.fightingillini.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
And clicking on "buy tickets" or whatever was able to buy tickets now.
I'm sure sections 134 and 135 aren't _bad_ seats. They look like they're in a corner, behind a basket, two sections from the floor.
Through the mobile interface I was offered tickets for sale in e.g. section 101 (lowest section, mid-court) row 3 (maybe that's actually the sixth row?).
I wound up with a seat in section 12, somewhere that was called "FL" (tantalizing?), row A. Might be courtside, might be behind the Illinois bench, might be obstructed view behind a column, I'll find out when I get there I guess! Hopefully there are some Valpo fans not too far away.
I know that in Detroit 2016 it was fun to sit in the Valpo fan section. But, this time I took a stab at something closer to the floor. We'll see what happens!
The old Assembly Hall used to have some awkward angles for some of the seats. I think they fixed that during the recent renovation.
Quote from: agibson on March 12, 2017, 09:35:46 PM
But, on a lark, I went through UIUC's mobile interface, I think probably the mobile equivalent of
http://www.fightingillini.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
And clicking on "buy tickets" or whatever was able to buy tickets now.
I'm sure sections 134 and 135 aren't _bad_ seats. They look like they're in a corner, behind a basket, two sections from the floor.
Through the mobile interface I was offered tickets for sale in e.g. section 101 (lowest section, mid-court) row 3 (maybe that's actually the sixth row?).
I wound up with a seat in section 12, somewhere that was called "FL" (tantalizing?), row A. Might be courtside, might be behind the Illinois bench, might be obstructed view behind a column, I'll find out when I get there I guess! Hopefully there are some Valpo fans not too far away.
I know that in Detroit 2016 it was fun to sit in the Valpo fan section. But, this time I took a stab at something closer to the floor. We'll see what happens!
My guess is that the place will be half full and you'll be able to move to great seats as the game moves on.
Quote from: agibson on March 12, 2017, 08:49:00 PMPaul Oren says the last VU at-large was 2002-03 (think I have that right) when supposedly we got the bid because we agreed to play on 24 hours notice. Not auei be heard that whole story.
Scott Drew's Valpo team lost to Iowa at Iowa City when Anti Nikkila (I believe) missed a last second shot (possibly an attempt at a tip in) that would have won it for Valpo.
I looked at my ticket purchasing history at the U of I-Champaign ticket office and I show purchasing 2 tickets for a Valpo at Illinois game on Nov. 13, 2013 so we must have played them then and not any games more recently. At least by my memory that is.
I'm trying to get my schedule changed a bit and work out a slide through Champaign for tomorrow night (Tue).
Was very shocked to see BYU hosting as a #3 seed.
Quote from: bbtds on March 13, 2017, 03:34:29 AM
I looked at my ticket purchasing history at the U of I-Champaign ticket office and I show purchasing 2 tickets for a Valpo at Illinois game on Nov. 13, 2013 so we must have played them then and not any games more recently. At least by my memory that is.
I'm trying to get my schedule changed a bit and work out a slide through Champaign for tomorrow night (Tue).
Oren tweeted last night that this years seniors (4 year players) started their VU basketball career at Illinois, and tomorrow night will be playing at Illinois as their VU career winds down, but not ends as we win this game and play at least one more!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don't worry...there will be plenty of tickets available. FYI, both Scott and Bryce Drew are being mentioned as candidates for the Illinois job.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 13, 2017, 10:58:11 AM
Don't worry...there will be plenty of tickets available. FYI, both Scott and Bryce Drew are being mentioned as candidates for the Illinois job.
Sure. Seats north of 16k. Supposedly the third biggest "arena" in the state after the United Center and Rosemont. There should be plenty of seats available walk up. Just a nice 21st century problem of -where- to sit.
QuoteFYI, both Scott and Bryce Drew are being mentioned as candidates for the Illinois job.
Illinois already reached out to Bryce last offseason. He told Illinois reps he wasn't interested. And I don't see Scott leaving Baylor for Illinois. Not because Illinois is a bad job but because it just doesn't seem like a match, imo. I've heard that Bryce and Scott preferred private school jobs, because there is less of a bureaucracy you have to deal with.
I don't know how much it would bleed into the Basketball Program but the Baylor athletic department has been getting some really bad press over the last few years. I wouldn't be surprised if Scott would want to leave just to get away from that atmosphere.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 13, 2017, 03:50:46 PM
I don't know how much it would bleed into the Basketball Program but the Baylor athletic department has been getting some really bad press over the last few years. I wouldn't be surprised if Scott would want to leave just to get away from that atmosphere.
Living in Texas I can assure you that is true. However, Baylor is still a very conservative Baptist/Bible school which will continue to provide Scott with the type of atmosphere that best fits his beliefs and morals. Can't believe he would leave Baylor for a state school even for slightly more money. Bryce isn't going anywhere.
I received an email ad from the NIT asking if I was interested in NIT tickets for this year since I bought NIT finals tickets at Madison Square Garden last year. Featured in the picture for the ad is two George Washington players defending against a Valpo player in the NIT championship game. That Valpo player is #23, Jubril Adekoya.
Kind of makes you wonder if anyone in the NIT publicity dept actually researched into who was in the picture.
(http://image.mail2.ncaa.com/lib/fe5815707d6d067e7c13/m/3/NIT_104_550X367.png)
Crazy prediction: Either this year or next, Scott ends up at Indiana.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 13, 2017, 11:22:42 PM
Crazy prediction: Either this year or next, Scott ends up at Indiana.
Why would Scott Drew end up at Indiana?
I don't see Scott or Bryce leaving their current situations, unless it wasn't their decision
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: covufan on March 14, 2017, 08:13:26 AM
I don't see Scott or Bryce leaving their current situations, unless it wasn't their decision
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Considering everything that has happened at Baylor over the last 12 months, I couldn't get out of there fast enough if I were in Scott's shoes.
As for Bryce, I've always thought he had his sights set on the NBA. Should things go well over the next few years at Vandy, I expect him to try making the jump.
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Piling on... And they just recently fired ANOTHER assistant football coach (which came to light today).
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/big12/2017/03/14/baylor-fires-associate-football-operations-director-demarkco-butler/99153166/
Nobody was murdered on the basketball team by another player covered up by the head coach so I guess in perspective, things are a little better at Baylor.
If Scott got offered the Indiana Job I think that might be too enticing to turn down. The IU job is a top 5 job in the nation. It would be in his home state. Closer to Bryce/sister (brother-in-law) and his parents (all living in Nashville) and a pay raise. I think being at Private University where he is free "be more open" about faith based values is important for the Drews. Being that IU is an Indiana school, I think his style would be more "accepted" in Indiana as opposed to a public University in California, if you catch my drift.
I don't see Scott leaving Baylor unless the Football scandal starts to affect the Bball program which has been very principles based since Scott clean up the program and built it from the ground up after he left Valpo back in the day. If Indiana came calling it would be naive to say he wouldn't strongly consider that job because it doesn't get much bigger in College Basketball.
QuoteThe IU job is a top 5 job in the nation.
Look, there are plenty of reasons why Scott would be interested in IU, and you did a good job of listing them. But let's dispense with this "Top 5" job stuff. Maybe it was 20-25 years ago, but I easily can name 20+ places that are better jobs, with better facilities, with either better or just-as-good opportunities to get to Final Fours/win titles these days. In fact, I'm not sure it's a top 5 job in the Midwest anymore - you can make the argument that Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin are all superior landing spots for a coach looking to win at the highest level right now. Heck, as much as it pains me to say it, the Butler job might have more upside (and certainly has more recent success) than IU right now.
IU fans need to face the fact that it's been 30 years since their last national title, and their "glory days" were built on some institutional advantages that they no longer have. IU was one of a handful of programs on national TV consistently back then. Now everyone in their conference is on TV just as much if not more. IU's basketball program was better funded than the rest of the Big Ten back then - now the whole league has every financial resource at their disposal. Every team has shiny, new facilities (or are renovating them) and all the bells and whistles any recruit would want. Basically, the world has caught up, and pointing at five banners (the most recent one being from a dozen years before current freshmen were born) isn't going to change that. Even the crazed IU fans, oft repeated why it's such an awesome gig, are a double-edged sword. The outsized, unforgiving expectations give no quarter and can be viewed by players and coaches alike as a headache as much as a blessing.
Does that mean IU can't win and win big again? Of course not! They have just as good of a chance to be at the elite level as all of those teams. But it will only happen with a clear-eyed assessment of the *current* college basketball landscape, not by simply repeating "because we're Indiana" over and over again and citing ancient history as the reason why you should be included with UNC/Duke/Kentucky/Kansas/UCLA, all programs that have consistently gone to Final Fours and won titles since IU's last championship decades ago. (As a frustrated IU fan friend of mine noted on FB recently: "UConn has won four titles since 1999. Time to quit pretending it's still 1987.")
Not only is IU no longer a top-five national program, but I think a pretty good argument could be made it is Butler, not IU or Purdue, that holds the position as the top program in this state.
Paul
I should have clarified that I kind of through out "Top 5" loosely. It's very debatable these days what is considered a Top job. I don't even like IU, but there is a lot of history there. Still a great job.
As for Louisville, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin, I'd say IU is still a "better job" then those schools. Those schools are great because of the coaches associated with the program. MSU was nothing before Izzo and a few years of Magic. Wisconsin has been a good program for a while now but I give more credit to Bo Ryan and we'll see what Greg Gard can do in a larger sample size. Ohio State is totally overrated. Thad Matta seems disinterested half the time. Not sure his heart is in it anymore. Michigan is a football school, that is good bball program but before this B10 Tourney run people were calling for John Beilein's firing. Louisiville is riding the corrupt/sleezy coat tails of Rick Pitino. Some history at Louisville but saw a "revitalization" under Patino.
I agree that the scales have leveled with every team being able to be seen on national TV/Streaming these days.
Well, if those programs are built upon singular coaches, um, doesn't that mean IU was elite solely because of Knight?
Louisville and MSU are built to be good for a long, long time. Ohio State has two Final Fours in the past decade and is one of the two richest athletic departments in the nation and none of the pressure from the fan base that an IU coach has to deal with. Ditto Michigan. You could apply the "overrated" tag to the entire Big Ten (1 championship in the past 25 years, vs. 8 for the ACC, 6 for the SEC, 6 for the Big East, and even 2 for the PAC-10).
Multiple Final Fours since IU's last visit (2002): UConn (4 - 3 titles), UNC (4 - 2 titles), Kansas (4 - 1 title), Kentucky (4 - 1 title), Michigan State (4 - 7 since 1999 with 1 title), Duke (3 - 2 titles - also won in 2001), Louisville (3 - 1 title), Syracuse (3 - 1 title), UCLA (3), Florida (2 - 2 titles), Villanova (2 - 1 title), Oklahoma (2), Ohio State (2), Butler (2), Wisconsin (2), Colonial Athletic Association (2).
That's *15* different programs who have gone to the Final Four more than once since IU's last visit. The. Landscape. Has. Changed.
With IU job you definitely have more pressure. I kind of apply "Top" job tag because of the expectations attach to the job and the passion of Indiana basketball fans (not just IU fans, general Indiana fans). Indiana is a different State. I'm a Illinois native and it was really weird to me when I first came to Valpo and saw how much people from Indiana care about HS basketball. Indiana HS basketball is so "tribal". Towns really get behind their HS teams and get all hot and bothered about a bunch of amateur athletes losing to the next time. Its kind of hilarious but cool that people have that pride in their town and team.
I really don't have a bone to pick with the ranking of the IU job. I just think it will always be one of the Top jobs because of the Culture of basketball in Indiana and the expectations that come along with it.
VU2014, no offense but you're too young to be making some of your comments.
Michigan State wasn't nothing before Izzo. Jud Heathcote won the national title in 1979 and had good, tough teams throughout his tenure.
Michigan, while it may be a football school, has had good basketball teams since the 70s. You probably weren't born yet when the Fab Five came onto the scene. Watch the ESPN 30-for-30 if you haven't yet.
And yes, high school basketball in Indiana is pretty cool.
For those of us who are too young to have lived through some of the great coaches/dynasties of the past, a great way to get a quick sense of the history and tradition for various programs is a fun project that ESPN put together back in 2009.
https://www.amazon.com/ESPN-College-Basketball-Encyclopedia-Complete/dp/0345513924/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0/151-3647132-7188550?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VM8GJN3TRRC802DPB1S1 (https://www.amazon.com/ESPN-College-Basketball-Encyclopedia-Complete/dp/0345513924/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_0/151-3647132-7188550?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VM8GJN3TRRC802DPB1S1)
Unfortunately I don't think it's been updated since then. Still, the College Basketball Encyclopedia included an All-Time computer ranking from Jeff Sagarin that took into account all of a school's games going back to the 1930's. It also broke down who the top programs were for each decade. That info can still be seen online here:
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf (http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf)
It is pretty neat to see how some programs have risen and fallen over time - and an easy way to get a quick understanding of where things used to stand.
QuoteVU2014, no offense but you're too young to be making some of your comments.
Don't you know nothing that happened before the millennial generation matters? ;)
haha very valid point. Could be too young to have an educated opinion this one.
Speaking of "top jobs" that are overrated, Mizzou thinks they have a chance at Scott Drew.
Why on earth would Scott want to leave Baylor for Missouri when Baylor has a better recent record in a better conference and he wouldn't have to play Bryce.
Also, there is a scandal brewing at Mizzou over a disgruntled tutor. They are living in the past too.
OK. Time to Reflect. Time to be Realistic. Here's what we are: Valpo is a mid-major leader in the 18+/- th rated conference. We on this board talk like we are equivalent to Power 5s. We are, but not the good ones. Illinois proved that. Does anyone think that having AP on the floor would have made a difference tonight? Well, maybe 10 points in the overall scheme of things. But we still would have been crushed.
We need power on the inside, sown low.
We need 3 pt shooters who hit their shots under pressure.
We need 7 guys who can match the size and athleticism that we saw tonight.
We need to at least win the DRB battle -- UOf LI had how many ORBs?
I'm not down on VU BB. I am, in my own mind, being realistic.
We CAN do that. But it will take Matt and the Athletic Department to put greater effort (Matt) and greater resources (AD) to make that happen.
BTW, the students at Champaign were great. They showed up!
I do think Alec would have made a major difference, maybe not win but better showing and a chance. Having not sick Shane would help too.
The roster that was to be had this season had very glaring holes. NO Power Fowards. Freshman Bigs. Sorolla looked completely run down at the end of the season (freshman wall). Smits just isn't reliable player at this point. Inconsistent PG play with Lexus and Micah.
Other then Alec we had no other reliable shooters... Thats unacceptable. Thats why Sasha was such an important recruit.
Bakari & Joe are guys who can potential create their own shots and shoot the ball. If I remember correctly Joe shot the ball well from 3 at Okie St. Marcus Golder had a decent 3pt% at Northern Idaho, but I'm not sure its a natural strength. I haven't seen enough. We need more pure perimeter threats.
The way the roster turned out wasn't exactly Coaches fault considering we all thought we'd be have K Carter, Skara, and Jubril this season. Just so many holes and Alec was the duck tape holding this team together and when he went down it just became too much.
Tweet at Paul your questions. If you don't have a twitter account just post a question on the board and I'll tweet it out asking for you.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/841837428092608512
Great Oakland comeback (20 points down) and win without Hayes. If they play anything like that they could also win at Alabama or Richmond.
Upsets were the norm in the opening day of the NIT...
#5 Ole Mis beats #4 Monmouth
#7 Oakland beats #2 Clemson
#6 Georgia Tech beats #3 Indiana (at GaTech)
#6 Richmond beats #3 Alabama
#6 Boise State beats #3 Utah (and gets to go to Illinois)
#8 CSU Bakersfield beats #1 California
Only 1 OTHER higher-seeded team won:
#4 Colorado State beats #5 Charleston
Quote from: covufan on March 14, 2017, 08:13:26 AM
I don't see Scott or Bryce leaving their current situations, unless it wasn't their decision
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One correction: I don't see Scott or Bryce leaving their current situations for another college job, unless it wasn't their decision.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 14, 2017, 09:38:12 AMThe IU job is a top 5 job in the nation. It would be in his home state.
Drew might take the Indiana job but the above is fantasy land or a post pulled from 20 year old archives.
Quote
As for Louisville, Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State and Wisconsin, I'd say IU is still a "better job" then those schools.
You can say it but you can also be wrong.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 14, 2017, 02:11:22 PM
Speaking of "top jobs" that are overrated, Mizzou thinks they have a chance at Scott Drew.
Why on earth would Scott want to leave Baylor for Missouri when Baylor has a better recent record in a better conference and he wouldn't have to play Bryce.
Also, there is a scandal brewing at Mizzou over a disgruntled tutor. They are living in the past too.
There seems to be scandals brewing everywhere. The money and demands thrown at these top coaches can only be defined as corrosive. Is Scott as honest as I would like to think? Uhhhhh Don't know. As for Bryce his attempts or thoughts to push Nick Davidson out were pushing my limits.
Money and power and fan pressures could to varying degrees corrupt all of us. It is my hope that Scott, Bryce, Roger, Matt and others can avoid the worst of its temptations.
Ok. My annual sermon is over! ::)
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 14, 2017, 01:47:35 PMAnd yes, high school basketball in Indiana is pretty cool.
"Clete, you tell him. Sectionals of '33, one point down. Five, four, three, two, one, let 'er fly... in and out. Yeah, well, I was fouled..."Wilbur Shooter Flatch, Hoosiers
Yeah because that's what we want to tell someone who was assaulted, "Well, at least you weren't murdered......."
Quote from: bbtds on March 16, 2017, 04:44:36 AM
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 14, 2017, 01:47:35 PMAnd yes, high school basketball in Indiana is pretty cool.
"Clete, you tell him. Sectionals of '33, one point down. Five, four, three, two, one, let 'er fly... in and out. Yeah, well, I was fouled..."
Wilbur Shooter Flatch, Hoosiers
I am part of a group that attends a Friday semi final night at a sectional in Indiana. Traditionally we try to attend a smaller school tourney to get the full Indiana effect. This year we went to Fountain Central in Veedersburg (our 34th consecutive trip). The best part was eating dinner at the Hickory Café in New Richmond. For those who are not familiar with the movie "Hoosiers" New Richmond is used for all the town scenes in the movie. At the beginning Gene Hackman drives into New Richmond and turns left at the flashing light and pulls into the high school which is actually in Ninevah. The café has a lot of Hoosiers stuff in it. Well worth the trip.
Anyone else find it ironic that our highest ranked player coming out of high school (played in 2016/17) is Mr. Smits?
Goes to show rankings are more subjective than I'd have thought. He still has solid potential and I suppose the rankings were comparing him to other high schoolers. Certainly doesn't register / rank their college game readiness.
Hoping that's not the case with our two transfers, which I have solid confidence will provide immediate impact for us.
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 16, 2017, 08:30:21 AM
Quote from: bbtds on March 16, 2017, 04:44:36 AM
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 14, 2017, 01:47:35 PMAnd yes, high school basketball in Indiana is pretty cool.
"Clete, you tell him. Sectionals of '33, one point down. Five, four, three, two, one, let 'er fly... in and out. Yeah, well, I was fouled..."
Wilbur Shooter Flatch, Hoosiers
I am part of a group that attends a Friday semi final night at a sectional in Indiana. Traditionally we try to attend a smaller school tourney to get the full Indiana effect. This year we went to Fountain Central in Veedersburg (our 34th consecutive trip). The best part was eating dinner at the Hickory Café in New Richmond. For those who are not familiar with the movie "Hoosiers" New Richmond is used for all the town scenes in the movie. At the beginning Gene Hackman drives into New Richmond and turns left at the flashing light and pulls into the high school which is actually in Ninevah. The café has a lot of Hoosiers stuff in it. Well worth the trip.
I've been to that Hickory Cafe. Did you realize that they left the Hickory letters on the Post Office in New Richmond. I took a picture of it but now I can't seem to find it. It says US Post Office, Hickory, Indiana. I believe it was in the 1990's that New Richmond was hit by a tornado, not unlike many other Indiana towns in the heartland and it changed the landscape quite a bit. All those leaves that are blowing around during the scene where Hackman drives into town at the beginning of the movie would be a lot less in number because so many huge trees in New Richmond were uprooted. The court where Jimmy Chitwood was shooting baskets (they shot this scene in one take) while Coach Dale told him he didn't care if he played or not is still there and very recognizable. The school in Nineveh (not far from Indy in southern Johnson County) was subject to two different fires and finally was torn down in 2000. The church in New Richmond where the vote was held to fire or keep Coach Dale was remodeled and looks very different.
Here is a website dedicated to telling what happened to the buildings in these different scenes of the movie.
http://hoosiersarchive.com/the-years-after-hoosiers/whatever-happened-to-the-filming-sites/
http://hoosiersarchive.com/behind-the-scenes-2/filming-locations-and-schedule/sites/
The saddest part for me was seeing the property and actual tree where the guy who played Merle, Kent Poole, hanged himself in 2003. He had wanted to have a successful acting career and actually was in a movie with Molly Ringwold called "Fresh Horses." The acting career didn't work out and his farming operation was in financial trouble and he was getting divorced so Poole hanged himself on his property. I read recently that his daughter played for the softball team at Western Boone that won a sectional championship in 2015. One of his neighbors showed me Kent Poole's property and grave. He was a huge Indiana Hoosiers fan. Poole is famous for leading his Western Boone high school team to the 1982 semi-state where, unlike Milan, they lost to Gary Roosevelt by 2 points, 38-36. So Kent Poole truly was a small high school hero who nearly lead his small high school team to a state championship. Eventually Gary Roosevelt lost to Plymouth by 1, 75-74 in the state championship game when Scott Skiles hit the winning shot.
When Kent Poole delivered the famous line in the movie "Let's win this game for all the small schools that never had a chance to get here." he could just as easily been referring to his own Western Boone team.
Kent Poole's obit:
http://www.journalreview.com/news/local/article_8a2fcdd2-9df2-5567-8e5e-cd3e39c6572a.html
(http://hoosiersarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/merle.jpg) (http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/reporter.net/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/a9/7a9b4379-0049-5257-a59a-53885f08e124/53cd70e7270b6.image.jpg)
(https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/find-a-grave-prod/photos/2004/198/7863708_109010995028.jpg)
https://twitter.com/norman_dale/status/278894208226574336
http://weboathletics.com/2015/05/26/stars-stun-6-lebanon-with-walk-off-win/
WeBo senior Paige Poole kept the inning alive with a single up the middle, then classmate Ashley Burns walked to put the go-ahead run on first base.
"Paige had a great at bat to keep us alive," Vanderpool said. "She was 0-for-3 at that point and she kept her head up and got the big hit for us. Then the bottom half of our lineup really came through. They had been struggling, but we had some young girls step up in pressure situations."http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/paige-poole/x4bQ4PTmEeKZ5AAmVebBJg/default.htm
Varsity softball vs. Crawfordsville.
Posted Wed, May 27 2015
The Western Boone Stars softball team won Wednesday's neutral playoff game against Crawfordsville by a score of 10-4.
This game is part of the "2014-15 IHSAA Class 3A Softball State Tournament - S25 | Crawfordsville".
5/27 @ 6p 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 R H E
Western Boone 3 3 0 3 1 - - 10 - -
Crawfordsville 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 4 - -
Just Ducky,
Question: When did Bryce try and force Nick Davidson out? Why? And how? Was he trying to open up another scholarship? Never heard this? Please elaborate. I know this stuff happens all the time but didn't know it was happening here.
QuoteAs for Bryce his attempts or thoughts to push Nick Davidson out were pushing my limits.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 16, 2017, 04:36:18 PM
Just Ducky,
Question: When did Bryce try and force Nick Davidson out? Why? And how? Was he trying to open up another scholarship? Never heard this? Please elaborate. I know this stuff happens all the time but didn't know it was happening here.
QuoteAs for Bryce his attempts or thoughts to push Nick Davidson out were pushing my limits.
Too many scholarships promised when Vashil was granted the additional year (spring 2015?). Rumors said that Bryce and Roger were trying to encourage Nick to transfer. Reports that Alec hit the roof and said if Nick goes he would go also. I can't remember the kid that then committed to George Mason. Big kid but I've heard nothing about him since. Relvoul or something?
QuoteToo many scholarships promised when Vashil was granted the additional year (spring 2015?). Rumors said that Bryce and Roger were trying to encourage Nick to transfer. Reports that Alec hit the roof and said if Nick goes he would go also. I can't remember the kid that then committed to George Mason. Big kid but I've heard nothing about him since. Relvoul or something?
Interesting. I didn't know that. I actually don't have a problem with telling a kid he won't get playing time and asking him transfer. Obviously it has to be done respectfully and you don't try & force the kids hand or anything, but helping a kid find a new home on another D1 team and asking him is not an awful thing. I don't know how Bryce/Roger went about asking or anything but its not totally morally wrong. Trying force a kid it out is not a good look or a high character move though. It's all hear say I guess. Good decision on Nick for staying. He got a great education. Valpo has a really great nursing program and he earned really strong degree.
But yep the kid that didn't have a scholarship with a really lanky European Power Forward named Daniel Relvao. I remember had an insane wing-span. Was suppose to be a developmental rim-protector/block specialist. He got hurt in the preseason with George Mason and had Micro-fracture surgery (really not good) last year and red-shirted his freshman year. I've been keeping tabs on his season and it looks like he had a rough first year (to be expected though).
He had a nice game a few days ago against Loyola in the CBI. 4 blocks. Would have been interesting to see how he would have turned out in a Crusader uniform.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3947216/daniel-relvao
My understanding of the situation was partially that it happened fast. Vashil got the scholarship and then Bryce took too long to make a decision as to who would have to be cut and maybe then pushed Nick a bit too much. The other piece is that Nick is well loved by the team and was going into his Junior year and hadn't shown signs of being frustrated with playing time. So it felt completely like a push out not helping a kid land at a better team.
People have to remember. Scholarships are not a four-year deal. They are one-year, non-renewable. You have to continue earning it.
Homer "encouraged" a few of his guys to "transfer" at one time or another. It's not unusual.
Anyone watching Oakland @ Richmond? Martez-Walker threw an elbow and made contact. It was after the play and he received only a Technical. Should have been dismissed. Much worse than the Tevon incident. The Oakland staff did not sub him out either.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 19, 2017, 08:29:45 PMAnyone watching Oakland @ Richmond? Martez-Walker threw an elbow and made contact. It was after the play and he received only a Technical.
I saw nothing hit. Didn't look that close. It was a double technical.