Cleveland St. at Valpo, Saturday 1/10/2015 7:05 p.m. CST

[HC]

Ha! His dive vs YSU on that horrid pass and the one tonight where he was, ya know out of bounds where a tad unnecessary and he got up slow after both.  Glad to have a handful of days for guys to heal up and go wax Wright State and that pouty foot stomping head coach of theirs.

[classof2014]

they are also without their PG in Charlie Lee

Where do you hear that gossip? It certainly wasn't true.

According to ESPN stats he didn't play/accumulate any stats in the last few games he played. Obviously they were wrong since he was very much present...

[RS]

I Beg to differ with a majority of the posters. T Walker held CSU's top scorer to only 5 points. This was 12 points under his average. Yes one silly mistake, 3pt shot foul with 2 seconds remaining. So I make it an A-. Comeon guys he  is a freshmen playing really good basketball. Thanks!

[bbtds]

I say...

Valpo 76
CSU 70

We have a very big height advantage in this game, thus we should dominate the boards and own the paint on both ends. I do predict CSU shoots pretty well from the outside but our inside game wears them down in the end.

Valpo may have a height advantage but after watching CSU against Oakland what the Vikings have are some very athletic leapers that out rebounded Oakland 31-29. The Crusaders out rebounded Oakland 44-38. I don't see either team, Valpo or CSU, out rebounding their opponent by that much.

Anton Grady plays that center position well for the Vikings. CSU plays a very physically tough defensive game and if you don't play tough against them they can beat you in a low scoring game.

They are very tough to score against. When Valpo drives the basket I don't think you'll see as many shots going in as against other HL teams such as UIC and YSU.

Let's see.

Neither team out rebounded the other by much Valpo 31, CSU 29-----check

Low scoring game-----check

Anton Grady and Charlie Lee both played well and were CSU's leading scorers-----check

Valpo missed a lot of shots when driving the basket that went in during the YSU and UIC games-----check

Valpo wins close game.-----check

If I have to say so myself I think I made some pretty accurate predictions in this game.     

[HC]

Well done, bbtds!

While we're giving ourselves pats on the back....way back in the 2nd post of this thread I made the bold prediction Alec would find his outside stroke! check 

[bbtds]

I Beg to differ with a majority of the posters. T Walker held CSU's top scorer to only 5 points. This was 12 points under his average. Yes one silly mistake, 3pt shot foul with 2 seconds remaining. So I make it an A-. Comeon guys he  is a freshmen playing really good basketball. Thanks!

Without Tevonn Valpo doesn't win that game. He had a tough time driving the basket and scoring but that was to be expected against CSU. I agree with the A grade given by RS to Tavonn. It would be nice if he didn't foul three point shooters at critical times in games but I have a feeling he will learn that lesson as he progresses as a Valpo player. Tavonn played an excellent defensive game which did lead to Valpo scoring more points.

Darien missed some big shots in the first half but he had an important three in the second half at a very critical time. I agree he really shouldn't be forcing shots but it seems that is what the coaching staff is encouraging him to do or they would be telling him during the game not to shoot so much. It didn't seem that Bryce or the other coaches were talking to him about his shooting.

[wh]

I Beg to differ with a majority of the posters. T Walker held CSU's top scorer to only 5 points. This was 12 points under his average. Yes one silly mistake, 3pt shot foul with 2 seconds remaining. So I make it an A-. Comeon guys he  is a freshmen playing really good basketball. Thanks!

Point well made and supported by high praise for TW's defensive play from Luke Gore in the post game. 

[valpopal]

This was a hard-fought win and one of the roughest games you will see, despite the low amount of fouls called. In fact, with about 2:30 left in the game Bryce shouted to one of the officials, "I can't believe they have only 4 fouls!" This probably contributed to the crucial foul call on Alec's 3-point shot with 2:06 left in the game. Valpo players clearly were battered a number of times, especially under the basket. Tevonn was a victim various times and finished the game looking like a fighter after a boxing match, as can be seen in my photo from the press conference.

[SanityLost17]

I am going to defend Nickerson.

1.  Dude was absolutely exhausted by the end of the game.  Yes, you are going to miss free throws when you are exhausted. 
2. Three of his turnovers were simply him not being on the same page with the other players.  The guys are used to keith.  The dump down to Vashil would have been a great play, but Vashil wasn't ready for it.  This communication will get better every game.     
3.  He did a decent job on defense considering he was often playing a smaller quicker guard.   
4.  He had some GREAT drives that he simply didn't finish, probably because he was exhausted.  He has an ability to get to the basket and I was very impressed with a 6'8" guy that can weave through traffic like that.

Side Question: 
If Carter can't play the rest of this season, will the NCAA grant him an extra year?  Think about it...  If he is out the rest of this year, he will be starting his senior year only having played 2 complete semesters of basketball. 

     

[a3uge]

Missed the first half. Couple points.

Enthusiastic crowd.

There were some classic Horizon League ref moments tonight like the over and back after the CSU player tipped it back. The 10 second call was clearly a second early. And the foul on the put back with a minute left - Peters was completely shoved over and flew into Jubril.

The mark of a good basketball team is that they find different ways to win games. Being able to win in a low scoring grind-it-out way is great, even with your starting point guard. I feel like I've seen Valpo lose this game a couple times before, and it was difficult seeing T Walker channel his inner Jarryd Lloyd at the line, but in the end it was nice being on the receiving end of some free throw misses.

Nickerson can't play the point. He's only playing point because he can't play inside and can't shoot in the corner. He's an intriguing player due to his length (point-forwards are fun), but he's really hurting the team when he's running the offense. I think Max Joseph looked more component tonight.

Peters is a stud. Knocking down those three free throws was huge.

[valpopal]

This was not one of the most important plays, but it was one of my favorite photos from the game with the intensity of Alec's facial expression reflected in the facial expression of Coach Waters. This image depicts the intensity displayed on both sides during the whole game.

[bbtds]

Side Question: 
If Carter can't play the rest of this season, will the NCAA grant him an extra year?  Think about it...  If he is out the rest of this year, he will be starting his senior year only having played 2 complete semesters of basketball. 

The answer is simply "NO." You can't combine partial missed seasons to get a full season back. You also can't play a half season and then have your eligibility expire. Unfortunately Keith has played way too many games this season to red shirt this season (2014-15). It seems to me that it would be fair to Keith since he missed so much time at SLU also but that is not the way the NCAA operates.

[valpotx]

Missed the first half. Couple points.

Enthusiastic crowd.

There were some classic Horizon League ref moments tonight like the over and back after the CSU player tipped it back. The 10 second call was clearly a second early. And the foul on the put back with a minute left - Peters was completely shoved over and flew into Jubril.

The mark of a good basketball team is that they find different ways to win games. Being able to win in a low scoring grind-it-out way is great, even with your starting point guard. I feel like I've seen Valpo lose this game a couple times before, and it was difficult seeing T Walker channel his inner Jarryd Lloyd at the line, but in the end it was nice being on the receiving end of some free throw misses.

Nickerson can't play the point. He's only playing point because he can't play inside and can't shoot in the corner. He's an intriguing player due to his length (point-forwards are fun), but he's really hurting the team when he's running the offense. I think Max Joseph looked more component tonight.

Peters is a stud. Knocking down those three free throws was huge.

I completely agree on the over and back call being a complete joke, as it was very evident that CSU hit that ball over half-court.  I was also thinking the same thing about that 10 second call.  While we should never have that close of a call, the ref made the call as soon as the clock hit 25.  Well, to go a full 10 seconds, you need to be making the call the very instant that you see it hit 24 on the clock, as he didn't take into account the microseconds counting down when it switches from 26 to 25.  Max crossed over as soon as it hit 25, which means it would have been something like 25.7+, or less than 10 seconds.  I was astutely watching the shot clock all game because of their constant press, and it usually took us 6-7 seconds to break their press.

Btw, that homerun ball goes back to at least my first years at Valpo, and it has always worked.  I have to imagine that coaches tell their kids to watch out for it since that is at least 15 years of the HR ball from Valpo, but their kids just don't execute in time.

[valpo4life]

Missed the first half. Couple points.

Enthusiastic crowd.

There were some classic Horizon League ref moments tonight like the over and back after the CSU player tipped it back. The 10 second call was clearly a second early. And the foul on the put back with a minute left - Peters was completely shoved over and flew into Jubril.

The mark of a good basketball team is that they find different ways to win games. Being able to win in a low scoring grind-it-out way is great, even with your starting point guard. I feel like I've seen Valpo lose this game a couple times before, and it was difficult seeing T Walker channel his inner Jarryd Lloyd at the line, but in the end it was nice being on the receiving end of some free throw misses.

Nickerson can't play the point. He's only playing point because he can't play inside and can't shoot in the corner. He's an intriguing player due to his length (point-forwards are fun), but he's really hurting the team when he's running the offense. I think Max Joseph looked more component tonight.

Peters is a stud. Knocking down those three free throws was huge.

I completely agree on the over and back call being a complete joke, as it was very evident that CSU hit that ball over half-court.  I was also thinking the same thing about that 10 second call.  While we should never have that close of a call, the ref made the call as soon as the clock hit 25.  Well, to go a full 10 seconds, you need to be making the call the very instant that you see it hit 24 on the clock, as he didn't take into account the microseconds counting down when it switches from 26 to 25.  Max crossed over as soon as it hit 25, which means it would have been something like 25.7+, or less than 10 seconds.  I was astutely watching the shot clock all game because of their constant press, and it usually took us 6-7 seconds to break their press.

Btw, that homerun ball goes back to at least my first years at Valpo, and it has always worked.  I have to imagine that coaches tell their kids to watch out for it since that is at least 15 years of the HR ball from Valpo, but their kids just don't execute in time.

I had a good look at the over and back call. Jubril got a piece of it after the Cleveland State defender, thus making it an over and back violation. Refs were spot on there in my mind. 10 second call was close, but my point is don't make it that close. Just get across then pull back n start the offense.

[valpopal]

To give an idea how rough the play was under the basket throughout the game, here is E. Victor getting mauled. One defender raked him across the arm while the other hit him in the face with an elbow, but no foul was called, and it counted as a turnover. Perhaps if Nickerson's name were Felder....

[valpo4life]

I say...

Valpo 76
CSU 70

We have a very big height advantage in this game, thus we should dominate the boards and own the paint on both ends. I do predict CSU shoots pretty well from the outside but our inside game wears them down in the end.

Valpo may have a height advantage but after watching CSU against Oakland what the Vikings have are some very athletic leapers that out rebounded Oakland 31-29. The Crusaders out rebounded Oakland 44-38. I don't see either team, Valpo or CSU, out rebounding their opponent by that much.

Anton Grady plays that center position well for the Vikings. CSU plays a very physically tough defensive game and if you don't play tough against them they can beat you in a low scoring game.

They are very tough to score against. When Valpo drives the basket I don't think you'll see as many shots going in as against other HL teams such as UIC and YSU.

Let's see.

Neither team out rebounded the other by much Valpo 31, CSU 29-----check

Low scoring game-----check

Anton Grady and Charlie Lee both played well and were CSU's leading scorers-----check

Valpo missed a lot of shots when driving the basket that went in during the YSU and UIC games-----check

Valpo wins close game.-----check

If I have to say so myself I think I made some pretty accurate predictions in this game.     

Not to be "that guy" but we shot much better from inside the arc tonight than we did against YSU (54 to 41 percent) and the UIC game was just ridiculous how easy they made it on us. Granted we took about 15 less shots tonight than we do in a normal game because this was super physical across the board. If they called every foul out there we may all still be in the seats watching the managers play it out. And also, how can one say their predictions were accurate without making any predictions in your post? The only prediction you made was the rebounding one, which you were correct in. So I guess you were pretty accurate 

[justducky]

Good coaching by Bryce to make it work out with what he had.

If you had told me before the game that we would have 19 turnovers I would have predicted a 10 point loss. That 19 number might have been even bigger had Bryce not made the adjustment to have Alec or Jabril bring the ball up against specific defenders while the rest of the VU team quickly cleared the backcourt. Its nice that our back up center (Jubril) and our 4 (Alec) have both played significant minutes at the 3 position!

[a3uge]

Also rewatched that over-and-back and still think it was a terrible call. It was tipped out of Jubril's hands - 95% of balls like that (out of bounds, etc) the offense keeps possession. Calling an over and back on that was complete bush league.

[bbtds]

we shot much better from inside the arc tonight than we did against YSU (54 to 41 percent) and the UIC game was just ridiculous how easy they made it on us.

That is not what I said. I said we wouldn't score as much driving to the basket. Not "we would shoot better inside the arc."

When Valpo drives the basket I don't think you'll see as many shots going in as against other HL teams such as UIC and YSU.

I may not have made flat out statements but those were predictions.

Anton Grady plays that center position well for the Vikings.

low scoring game.

if you don't play tough against them they can beat you in a low scoring game.

The Vikings could have beaten Valpo in a low scoring game if they had hit two additional free throws--but Valpo did play tough against them.

[valpopal]

Another good game for Adekoya. In the four games of conference, he has been a different player, except for his free throw shooting. His field goal shooting is 86% on 12-14. In fact, the big men have been excellent, as Vashil is shooting 71% on 15-21 from the field, giving the two a combined 27-35 (77%).

[humbleopinion]

I Beg to differ with a majority of the posters. T Walker held CSU's top scorer to only 5 points. This was 12 points under his average. Yes one silly mistake, 3pt shot foul with 2 seconds remaining. So I make it an A-. Comeon guys he  is a freshmen playing really good basketball. Thanks!

Without Tevonn Valpo doesn't win that game. He had a tough time driving the basket and scoring but that was to be expected against CSU. I agree with the A grade given by RS to Tavonn. It would be nice if he didn't foul three point shooters at critical times in games but I have a feeling he will learn that lesson as he progresses as a Valpo player. Tavonn played an excellent defensive game which did lead to Valpo scoring more points

Especially in the first half, I thought that Tevonn was the key to Valpo's success.  His willingness to jump into scrums and his ability to win them, gave evidence to his intensity.  His strength , quickness, and tenacity bode well for the team over the next four years.

[humbleopinion]

Two other notes:

Given the description of the injury, I would be surprised to see KC on the floor before February.

Can we abandon the term "Horizon refs?"  The refs that we see in our games are the same refs that are on the court for BiG 10 as well as games for other conferences.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

how terrible our pigs played

indeed

[Smj]

I will be "that fan" and say that for some reason I feel that our opponents seem to be getting the calls from the refs.   When it is close and could be either a no call or go either way I feel like it is against us.  A good ref (to me) is one that I forget even exists.    One of the refs in this game is one who I feel I always notice and not in a good way. ...

As for this Cleveland team they seem to get away with beating the crap out of their competitors. Some might be incidental but at one point I thought Bryce was going to need to do something to "protect" the players.   You start questioning if the hard contact is accidental when you notice a trend ..

As for trends, why near the end of this game would our best option have been D.Walker shooting from the outside.    The trend shows he is not a good option from there.  He needs to drive - seems to do better.    The defensive runs away from him when he gets the ball outside.   (Also, I want to be clear that I am not saying he is bad because he does so much to impact the game - just don't like his outside shot lately.)

I have put my foot in my mouth on this before but here goes.   I did not like the announcers. ... I missed T.Ickow. The espn3 announcers did not know player's names and kept saying the A. R. C.   Their stories showed they did not know the players and at times said things about players doing something unusual when if you watch game after game you know it to be different. ...  I tried watching and listening to 95.1 but the time was too different.    Who can I email to tell (the right people) what a great job Todd does?

wow - I just wrote a book; anyone know a good publisher?

[oklahomamick]

I miss T.Icknow too.  I also miss the HL feed.  I had better luck with the HL network.  Although the Lavante Dority story got old, Better halftime videos.