We have a 2 game lead. Lets make it 3. Payback is fun, let's control the tie-breaker.
5 games left, 4 on the road. We need to avenge the worst loss of the season.
Valpo 81
Oakland 73
Oakland fans are back to feeling good about their team, but they are the most back and forth fans in the league. Valpo by 13....75-62 sending Grizzly fans back to the ledge.
QuoteOakland fans are back to feeling good about their team, but they are the most back and forth fans in the league. Valpo by 13....75-62 sending Grizzly fans back to the ledge.
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/830659322640269312
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/830659575669981184
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/830659845347037184
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/830661333741891584
We have enough credit in the bank that if we lose this one we still in 1st place.
However Would make no room for error. Going to wright st and nku must wins which doubt that can be done.
We are 2 games ahead of Oakland. But honestly they are very lucky to be in the hunt.
Crazy ending at uic, 3 missed free throws by a senior with 4 seconds against Milwaukee and an ending at Cleveland state where a last second shot was blocked. Could easily be a Oakland team fighting for 4th place not 1st.
Let's hope their luck runs ours.
so... if you want to relive history... so you won't repeat it...
Here's the Box Score from game 1
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/boxscore/2016-17/5948/youngstown-state-vs-valpo-02-11-2017/
and if you really are a glutton for punishment, here's the recap of exactly how they did it.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2016-17/16103/valpo-leads-start-to-finish-in-win-over-ysu/#.WKBl4cszU5s
we were 11-4 and 1-1 coming out of that game... we are now 21-5 and 11-2; the Grizz are 6-4 in their last 10, 4 W's in a row over Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland State and Youngstown State. They are an uncharacteristic 9-4 at home.
Here's a gut check from RealTimeRpi
02-17 at Oakland 17-7 (9-4) 139 69-79 L - Scouting
02-19 at Detroit 6-19 (4-9) 294 77-70 W - Scouting
02-21 Milwaukee 7-19 (4-10) 271 85-63 W - Scouting
02-24 at Wright St. 15-9 (8-5) 122 70-79 L - Scouting
02-26 at North. Kentucky 15-9 (8-5) 126 70-78 L - Scouting
This a game that sets the tone for the rest of the season,, Valpo needs to play with intensity, rebound and strong tight defense from the start. Valpo 78- Oakland 70 hope I'm right ;D
Hate to say it but Alec maybe getting fatigued. He has never played so many minutes. Same with Shane. Bryce had the luxury that the starters at VU weren't getting near the minutes other HL guys were.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 12, 2017, 01:12:23 PM
Hate to say it but Alec maybe getting fatigued. He has never played so many minutes. Same with Shane. Bryce had the luxury that the starters at VU weren't getting near the minutes other HL guys were.
You may be right and probably the reason Matt had him sit out last week's practices. Last night he played 29 minutes while his average for the season is 35.5. It seemed like a long time for Alec to be sitting on the bench!
Quote from: vu72 on February 12, 2017, 01:25:48 PMLast night he played 29 minutes while his average for the season is 35.5. It seemed like a long time for Alec to be sitting on the bench!
At the time I took it as, "OK, a bit of foul trouble. But mostly I'm letting Alec rest while the rest of the team shows they can hang with a Horizon League cellar-dweller without him". I'd decided earlier this season that Matt Lottich wasn't that afraid of Alec, or some other players, fouling out. That he wasn't one of those "two fouls? straight to the bench for the rest of the half coaches".
But, based on the post-game presser, I wonder. Earlier in the season were we just seeing the effect of perceiving the bench as very short? If you're playing a 6 man rotation you can't afford to sit a guy in foul trouble, even if that would normally be your inclination.
So, now I'm not sure if he was sitting Alec for two fouls, and he'd normally prefer to do that. Or if it was (also?) to get Alec a bit of rest, and lighten his minutes. Or if there could even be a specific reason to not push his minutes.
QuoteHate to say it but Alec maybe getting fatigued. He has never played so many minutes. Same with Shane. Bryce had the luxury that the starters at VU weren't getting near the minutes other HL guys were.
Don't forget losing Skara was huge for loosening the load on starters, then on top of that we lost Jubril because the NCAA can't get off its you know what to make a decision. If this was any Power 5 school, where more $ feeds their coffers and their former employees are littered through out their organization showing biased then we'd have a decision a week or two after the Kentucky game.
Oakland Press article with some comments about upcoming Valpo game.
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/sports/20170210/oakland-gets-its-swagger-back-splitting-metro-series-with-rival-detroit-mercy
Quote from: VU2014 on February 12, 2017, 02:03:55 PM
QuoteHate to say it but Alec maybe getting fatigued. He has never played so many minutes. Same with Shane. Bryce had the luxury that the starters at VU weren't getting near the minutes other HL guys were.
Don't forget losing Skara was huge for loosening the load on starters, then on top of that we lost Jubril because the NCAA can't get off its you know what to make a decision. If this was any Power 5 school, where more $ feeds their coffers and their former employees are littered through out their organization showing biased then we'd have a decision a week or two after the Kentucky game.
We are all noticeably disgusted by the speed at which a decision is being made. But let's remember that he reportedly admitted to cheating, this should be painful for him. And because it's a team sport the pain releases a domino effect.
But I'm getting to the point where my anger lies with Jubril as much or more than anyone/thing else.
I don't have any examples for this....but the length of time this has taken leads me to believe it's sistemic problems the NCAA is investigating. This is carrying over past 2-months, irregardless of the timing with the holidays.
BUT Jubril has been reported to be guilty....so we don't have much of a foot to stand on.
FG you are correct, we can't absolve Jubril in all this until we know all the facts. However, we do at least seem to know this is an academic issue. And the frustration for me lies in many players being able to play while Criminal matters were being worked out (or pled out) and having little to no time taken from them.
You mean like your guy who got arrested on the night before a game for MIP and yet he's still playing. Yea. I get what your saying.
Quote from: Grizz on February 12, 2017, 05:28:50 PM
You mean like your guy who got arrested on the night before a game for MIP and yet he's still playing. Yea. I get what your saying.
My friend, hello! You keeping an eye on Stevie Pees Publicly? We will watch our guys...you watch yours.
Good evening.
QuoteYou mean like your guy who got arrested on the night before a game for MIP and yet he's still playing. Yea. I get what your saying.
Oh Grizz... there you go again comparing the crime of underage drinking to domestic abuse. Not even comparable situations.
But I do think we should have sat out Jay for a game or two immediately following the incident. The team is really hurting from the lack of depth because we have two redshirts this year (originally 3 after the Middleton transfer), the Skara transfer as an upper class-men, then the Jubril situation, 3 walk-ons (Kiser giving a nice little boost by eating minutes and play solid D and avoiding turnovers), and 4 freshman. Credit to the coaching staff, AP, Shane, Tevonn and all the regulars for the still overcoming it all to place us at 1st place so far in the conf reg season.
Quote from: Grizz on February 12, 2017, 05:28:50 PM
You mean like your guy who got arrested on the night before a game for MIP and yet he's still playing. Yea. I get what your saying.
Yes, beating your girlfriend is totally the same as drinking 2 beers 3 years after you're legally allowed to drink in your home country.
No Oakland players were ever mentioned or hinted at...guilty conscience much?
Seriously Grizz, you have no leg to stand on. You have taken the worst of the worst over the last decade, with a façade of believing in 'second chances.' If you beat up a woman, are involved in other violence or theft, etc, you don't magically learn 1-2 years later and become a better man through playing basketball somewhere else. It is engrained in you to be a complete scumbag, and very small men. Your players that have this history are terrible people, it is that plain and simple. Who didn't drink before they hit 21? It is by sheer luck that I didn't end up with an MIP, like so many of my friends did. You are comparing that and academic cheating to beating up a woman? Man, you need a reality check on the character of your program.
Valpo 72
Second chance U 69
On our way to 5 out of 6 HL season championships. Nice run. Besides butler any other program dominate the HL like that?
Hey Grizz,
(http://stuffpoint.com/memes/image/143952-memes-really-high-guy-meme-28.jpg)
I have to admit I really enjoyed this quote from Kampe and comparing their current run to a boxing match.
"I don't think it took wind out of our sails, I think they reached inside our chest, and pulled our heart out. We laid on the canvas for nine seconds. I don't think there's any question. Two nights later, we played probably the worst basketball game I probably have ever coached. We laid on that canvas," Kampe said. "I'll tell you the honest-to-God truth. We got a break, because a great free-throw shooter missed three free throws with six seconds left (in the overtime win over Milwaukee that started the four-game win streak). I think maybe Rocky got up because he heard Adrian yelling, or something."
I'm not loving the irredeemable scum bag characterizations.
Been a long time since THEO 100, perhaps.
QuoteI have to admit I really enjoyed this quote from Kampe and comparing their current run to a boxing match.
I really like Kampe, despite the, ah, character trouble with some of his players. He's definitely my favorite coach in the league. And sometimes at mid-majors you have to play the hand you're dealt as far as recruiting, so I can't even really blame him, you know? There's pressure to win everywhere.
If we can agree that none of us wants another NIT appearance then it is a short step to accept that there is near zero advantage in being the HL top seed.
There are two teams in the league who have already beaten us and two more who certainly can (with or without Jubril). So the 1 seed might face CSU, WSU and Oakland; while the 2 seed might get Detroit, GB- NKU winner and Oakland. Ho-Hum there isn't a dimes worth of difference in difficulty between either bracket. Either way we have to be playing our very best basketball and anything less will place us on the sidelines.
Big Picture------ Oakland has 2 and GB 3 more losses than we do. On paper we might still be able to lose 3 games with NO, I repeat NO significant drop in probability of HL tournament success. OK some small degree of pride is on the line and maybe some potential recruits could be watching ESPN2, but otherwise this as good a place as any to sit Jay on the bench next to the coaching staff. Why should Matt show Kampe anything new? Personally I might view another double digit loss as being no worse damageing than winning by an equal margin. Certainly Matt will want the kids to play hard but I do not expect the VU game plan to be what is developed for JLA.
I think Alec and the coaches will have this team ready for Friday. FT's and rebounding will help us towards the finish.
Valpo 75
Oakland 69
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 12, 2017, 05:56:02 PMQuote from: Grizz on February 12, 2017, 05:28:50 PMYou mean like your guy who got arrested on the night before a game for MIP and yet he's still playing. Yea. I get what your saying.
My friend, hello! You keeping an eye on Stevie Pees Publicly? We will watch our guys...you watch yours. Good evening.
Fun fact: "O'Rena" is where Oakland plays and "orina" means "urine" in Spanish. More fun when you think about the fact that they have bowl seating.
This is game #27 on the schedule... we've won the last three of these (@ Clev, H to GBay and @ Milw)
semi-old timers will remember that in 1990-91 and 1991-92 game #27 was the last game of the year. In 1992, we lost game #27 at Green Bay 69-25 to wind up at 5-11; and 1991 we lost #27 at home to Green Bay 69-64 to end the season 5-22
We scored 25 points only!c :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote from: M on February 13, 2017, 02:54:53 PM
We scored 25 points only!c :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes. I think Homer would tell you that was the lowest of the low points in his first five years as coach.
At that time, I think Homer would have had to go undefeated for 3-4 years in a row just to hit .500 on his VU coaching record.
Those were very good GB teams (Tony Bennett was the star), and very bad VU teams (but still entertaining, at times, with Tracy Gipson).
it was in the Old county arena (still next to the Wretch center); we sat on 2x8s in the corner of the arena.... like the Wrigley Bleachers, without the atmosphere....yes, I was there, March 2, 1992... 5,737 people in that place.... fortunately, I can't find the box score.
Quote from: talksalot on February 13, 2017, 04:14:07 PM
it was in the Old county arena (still next to the Wretch center); we sat on 2x8s in the corner of the arena.... like the Wrigley Bleachers, without the atmosphere....yes, I was there, March 2, 1992... 5,737 people in that place.... fortunately, I can't find the box score.
Brown County Veterans Memorial Arena ... right across from Lambeau Field and the original home to the Packers Hall of Fame. I recall visiting the HOF after a shoot-around back in '83 ... sure things have changed quite a bit since then!
Quote from: talksalot on February 13, 2017, 04:14:07 PMfortunately, I can't find the box score.
Unfortunately...
(http://i64.tinypic.com/1zxtpo5.jpg)
:o
Even walk-on Jon Groll, apparently an Intramural Legend at the time, saw action in that "game."
I listened to that game on the radio. Only 3 players made any shots--Gipson, Barker and Beesley--as Valpo hit 18.6% of their attempts. Cavanaugh 0 for 6 and Suiter 0 for 8 were the real killers. I wonder when was the last time Valpo scored only 9 points or less in a half.
You don't see a game in which a single player outscored the entire other team very often. But at least Valpo had a better assist-to-FG ratio than Green Bay (had to work hard to find the pony in that box score).
The Oakland game will be Lottich's first major road game against an opponent who seriously thinks they can unseat Valpo for the regular season conference title. Should be a big crowd at Oakland and their players will be pumped. I kind of expect Valpo to come out and play like they did against Alabama and Rhode Island in this one. Not the prettiest play, but efficient and tough winning basketball. Oakland will try to push the pace a little bit, but Valpo will do a good job of making it more of a half court game. Valpo 71 Oakland 67
I dislike being the downer but I don't see us winning this game. 82-75 Oakland. I think the conference title will come down to the final week. We play @Wright St and @NKU, no easy task. Oakland finishes @GB and @Milwaukee. Jay will serve his two game suspension @Detroit and home vs Milwaukee.
Paul
Anybody going up on the fan bus?
Hopefully a noticeable Valpo presence.
We make teams shoot a lot of 3 point shots. Pretty simple really, when they make them we lose. When they don't, we win. Same as last year. I suspect Oakland hits their 3's against for national tv. They seem feed off that kind of energy.
Yeah this Oakland team is a really talented/athletic and underachieves at times. Going into this game is probably the least confidence I've had for our chances all year in conference play.
Oakland is always one of those teams that gets up for the match up. Oakland is playing the 1st seed in the conference, at home, getting healthy and its on National Television.
This game is sort of 50-50 for me. If Valpo shows up motivated and with energy and we don't have one of those poor shooting nights then I think we come out with the win.
If I'm Coach Lottich I would plaster this message all over the locker-room: "NO SECOND CHANCE POINTS! WIN THE REBOUND DIFFERENTIAL!" They KILLED us the last game with second chance points on grabbing the offensive rebounds.
I think Oakland's problem over the years is that Kampe puts WAY too much emphasis on the Valpo game. They get up for Valpo, and if things go well in the early going then they can cruise to a win. If Valpo maintains an early lead, Oakland's players start to feel the pressure, feel the wrath of Kampe, and self destruct. They put so much energy into the Valpo game, they end up with the inevitable Valpo hangover. Without looking up statistics from the last couple years, it seems like a trend to me.
I have heard interviews with "KIng" over the years and there is no doubt that he says the Valpo game is their biggest of the year. He has also commented on more than one occasion that he wants to build a program like ours.
QuoteIf Valpo maintains an early lead, Oakland's players start to feel the pressure, feel the wrath of Kampe, and self destruct.
Wrath? What wrath? Self destruct? Kampe has no idea of what you may be referring too lol ;)
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=14533539
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=14809727
Quote from: Valpo89 on February 14, 2017, 11:03:55 AM
I think Oakland's problem over the years is that Kampe puts WAY too much emphasis on the Valpo game. They get up for Valpo, and if things go well in the early going then they can cruise to a win. If Valpo maintains an early lead, Oakland's players start to feel the pressure, feel the wrath of Kampe, and self destruct. They put so much energy into the Valpo game, they end up with the inevitable Valpo hangover. Without looking up statistics from the last couple years, it seems like a trend to me.
You are on to something 89. I just looked back over the last five years and in the two games following the Valpo game Oakland is 9-7 over that time period. This year they beat UIC by 1 then lost to Detroit. In 14-15 after beating us in overtime, they lost two in a row. In 13-14 they beat us then then won in overtime and then lost. Clearly a hangover, no doubt.
...
We don't need to go undefeated in Michigan in February. We need to go undefeated in Michigan in March. This would be a great game to go out, lay the proverbial egg, get trounced and rest the starters.
Quote from: VUOR63 on February 14, 2017, 01:06:44 PM
We don't need to go undefeated in Michigan in February. We need to go undefeated in Michigan in March. This would be a great game to go out, lay the proverbial egg, get trounced and rest the starters.
I'd prefer we trounce them, rest the starters and then go to Detroit.
I think it comes down to this. How much have Sorolla and Smits grown in their skills and confidence since the OU game in Valpo? We miss Jubril most vs. Oakland's attitude.
I think Sorolla can be a big upgrade since last time. My sense is Smits will still play scared and tentative vs. this tough bunch even though his skills are improving.
They will dog Alec relentlessly again so the two big guys have to spare his defensive energy.
Quote from: VUOR63 on February 14, 2017, 01:06:44 PMWe don't need to go undefeated in Michigan in February. We need to go undefeated in Michigan in March.
This is the only thing Matt should focus on. Everything else is meaningless in the big picture.
If Jubril can play I would sit Jay. If Jubril can't play I would sit Jay. Time to get this matter wrapped up so we can focus on JLA.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 14, 2017, 01:35:36 PM
I think it comes down to this. How much have Sorolla and Smits grown in their skills and confidence since the OU game in Valpo? We miss Jubril most vs. Oakland's attitude.
I think Sorolla can be a big upgrade since last time. My sense is Smits will still play scared and tentative vs. this tough bunch even though his skills are improving.
They will dog Alec relentlessly again so the two big guys have to spare his defensive energy.
Actually, J and Derrik combined for 15 points and 12 boards in the last game. Alec had his pretty normal 20 and 11. Shane was off his average at 10 and 3. We scored 66 which is only 9 points less than our average in conference play. The problem was our defense, allowing 78 points when we have given up 65 on average.
QuoteThey will dog Alec relentlessly again so the two big guys have to spare his defensive energy.
Yep we have to get ready for that intense 2 man press. No excuses this time because we all know its coming.
X-Factors:
-Sorolla and Smits winning the rebound battle and not allowing second chance buckets
-Shane and Tevonn being able to execute when the are doubling Alec. If they get going they will ease up on Alec as the game goes on.
-Ball security and avoiding turnovers when they are in the press. We look so uncomfortable last time and we didn't get our offensive sets going till half way through the shot clock.
Quote from: VUOR63 on February 14, 2017, 01:06:44 PM
We don't need to go undefeated in Michigan in February. We need to go undefeated in Michigan in March.
This would be a great game to go out, lay the proverbial egg, get trounced and rest the starters.
While the first part of this statement is technically true the second part is just a horrible outcome. As a coach the last thing I would want to do is give Oakland more confidence, than they already have, that they can beat us come tournament time. Laying an egg is the last thing I want a team to be doing at this point in the season.
Quote from: FWalum on February 14, 2017, 10:06:33 PM
Quote from: VUOR63 on February 14, 2017, 01:06:44 PM
We don't need to go undefeated in Michigan in February. We need to go undefeated in Michigan in March.
This would be a great game to go out, lay the proverbial egg, get trounced and rest the starters.
While the first part of this statement is technically true the second part is just a horrible outcome. As a coach the last thing I would want to do is give Oakland more confidence, than they already have, that they can beat us come tournament time. Laying an egg is the last thing I want a team to be doing at this point in the season.
There's some seriously lame, Oakland-type, maybe we should try to be 3-seed so we can avoid having to challenge ourselves when it counts kind of nonsense going on here.
This may not be significant, but on our last road trip to Wisconsin, we played a Thursday/Saturday combo leading off with a weaker UWM who we beat rather handily (71-53) and then faced the tougher of the two, Green Bay, and lost (69-86). Many felt that the team looked tired and lacked drive in that contest -- and the totally out-of-character lack of rebounding sorta confirmed that.
On this trip it is reversed. We head into this road trip facing the better of the two Detroit teams and will probably be very motivated to revenge the earlier loss. As was pointed out, OU will see a much better two-headed 5 combination in Jay/Derrik that was not nearly as good over a month (and 11 games) ago.
I think these conditions point to a win at Oakland. I'd worry a bit about a Saturday "let-down" match-up with Detroit, but if the kids' heads are on straight after a win on Friday and it gives them an even greater sense of confidence and purpose, then Detroit falls as well.
Having said the above, if a two game suspension is in order for Jay, I'd sit him against Detroit and UWM. However, I'll go out on a limb regarding a Jay suspension and say that he'll only get a 1 gamer (UWM). The reason I say this is that, as many have speculated, while Jay was at the party (and athletes are cautioned over and over to not go to these parties), he only blew something like 0.003 (0.08 is intoxicated isn't it?) on the breathalyzer, which means he maybe had a couple of swigs is all. Add to this that he comes from a culture that allows drinking at 16 and that he, for the first time, was handcuffed and booked by the city police -- not only embarrassing by scary as well. These could be mitigating circumstances that would support Matt in exacting some in-practice punishment in conjunction with, maybe, a single gamer.
Finally, if Jubril's case is closed by the NCAA in time for the OU game, Kampe will have two new variables to prepare for: (1) Improved play at the 5 and (2) a new player [relatively speaking] to prepare for as Jubril was suspended the last time the two teams played.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 15, 2017, 08:51:56 AMif a two game suspension is in order for Jay, I'd sit him against Detroit and UWM.
I tend to agree with these two games, if the suspension comes this season. If it were me, I might be inclined to wait until full county court finalization, and if that is after the season, sit J the exhibition games next year.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/831979703175151617
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/831979908830224395
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831976995227590665
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831977067944243202
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831977382621835265
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831977959766495232
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831978047091925000
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831978429763444748
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831980002275123215
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831980086568034304
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831980161432166400
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831981076734173192
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/831981170913116161
[tweet]831981076734173192[/tweet]
[tweet]831981170913116161[/tweet]
[tweet]831983182664826881[/tweet]
Is the "situation" what I think it might be? No mention in today's Valpo Basketball Preview....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGhfbtIRsg
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 15, 2017, 08:51:56 AMHowever, I'll go out on a limb regarding a Jay suspension and say that he'll only get a 1 gamer (UWM). The reason I say this is that, as many have speculated, while Jay was at the party (and athletes are cautioned over and over to not go to these parties), he only blew something like 0.003 (0.08 is intoxicated isn't it?) on the breathalyzer, which means he maybe had a couple of swigs is all.
Reported as .03. No idea how many beers that adds up to but it doesn't matter. He was charged and will have to answer to it. That is actually the larger point with any discipline. If he pleads not guilty and wins his case (the judge doesn't care how much he blew just that he blew a positive number) which would be unlikely with a breathalyzer reading, then there is no suspension. If he takes a guilty plea or goes into a diversion program to have the case dismissed, he gets two games. That has been the punishment in the past for the MBB program.
http://wdfn.iheart.com/media/play/27666057/
Greg Kampe's coaches show. They break down the upcoming Valpo Game. Interesting listen too. I wish we had some kind of weekly coaches radio/podcast like Oakland has with Kampe. I know a lot of Coaches do this form of weekly hour show. This upcoming Oakland/Valpo game is Coach Kampe's 1000th game coached.
Paul Oren appears on the radio show. Breaks down the match up with Kampe and Oakland broadcaster Neal Ruhl. They break down the all league ballot.
Wow I'm surprise how much Kampe actually talked about what Oakland is going to do and talked strategy.
He revealed that Oakland uses a program called Synergy Sports Technology that is basically computer program that scouts and give analytics for coaches. Valpo does a ball screens and hand offs and the analytics say Oakland one of the best teams in the country at defending that so they match up well defensively to what we like to do.
Also breaks down how Valpo doubles down in the post defensively and we have a history of that. The 2 big 7 footers allow us to beat up on Horizon League/Mid-Major teams but when we go to Kentucky it doesn't workout as well against higher level talent.
I highly encourage you guys to give it a listen. Kampe breaks down the last Valpo/Oakland game. I really appreciate how honest Kampe is about strategy and breaking down offense and defense. 99% of coaches wouldn't be as candid about breaking down games as he is. Interesting discussion.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 16, 2017, 09:50:10 AM99% of coaches wouldn't be as candid about breaking down games as he is.
I 100% enjoy this about Coach Kampe. Great engagement with the fan base, and opposing fan bases!
This will be one of the first real pressure "coaching" tests for Mr. Lottich. He was thoroughly out coached both before and during the game.
I'm really concerned about the teams emotional response to finding out the official news on the Jubril situation a few hours before the biggest game of the year on the road.
I agree. I hope they will continue to rally around Jubril and make a bigger statement to the league and Oakland...but I can just as easily see them showing up and going through the motions and get run out of that uglyazz gym.
We will either lose by 20 or win by 20. There will be no inbetween. Only 2 ways to react to this sort of news.
Slow start for both teams thus far. Normally I'd say a low scoring game favors Valpo, but I remember reading somewhere that a low scoring game favors the team with the most points ;D
This team has dealt with so much, but I honestly question our desire right now. Even Alec looks like he'd rather be somewhere else tonight.
And here comes the most important half of basketball of the year. You come back and win and you break OUs spirit. You lose and both the regular season and tourney are in serious doubt. Let's go!
Hammink has been brutal
Valpo bench is wearing black warmup t-shirts that read "Free boogie 23" which I imagine refers to Jubril. Probably had that planned before today's news broke.
As for the game, Oakland has a lot of weapons to throw at you and we need to find someone not named Peters to step up in the second half.
If Shane and the other PGs let us get a few more shots up we will be fine.
Trying to think of who's having a worse game. Smits? Hammink? Bradford? Walker?
It's really feast or famine with this team.
I'm three beers in right now and refuse to be rational about this game win or lose.
We lose this game we have to win out (expecting Oakland does). I see us dropping another couple. Wsu or nku and Detroit
Announcers are saying that Tevonn got tossed for a fraction of what Grayson Allen (Duke) has done many times and gotten away with.
If that isn't the perfect analogy for the Jubril situation, I don't know what is.
Did anyone else get the memo? Is it &$@& Valpo week?
How on earth is this reffing acceptable
Sheron-walker stands over a player on the floor, that player stands up to protect themselves and gets ejected?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not that often a proponent of this sort of thing, but it's time for Matt to stand up for his players. If that means he gets an early shower too, so be it.
Quote from: hailcrusaders on February 17, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
Announcers are saying that Tevonn got tossed for a fraction of what Grayson Allen (Duke) has done many times and gotten away with.
If that isn't the perfect analogy for the Jubril situation, I don't know what is.
We'll see as the game goes forward and whether Valpo has a chance to come back, but if there was ever a game where the coach should deliberately work to get ejected with technicals, this might be the one. Lottich has to do something to make a statement and stand up for his players.
Max was hacked!
Quote from: hailcrusaders on February 17, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
Announcers are saying that Tevonn got tossed for a fraction of what Grayson Allen (Duke) has done many times and gotten away with.
If that isn't the perfect analogy for the Jubril situation, I don't know what is.
How in the hell did the referees come to this conclusion. It was ridiculous, are you kidding me what was he supposed to do with his legs when the guy isstanding right over him.
Quote from: FWalum on February 17, 2017, 07:42:58 PM
Quote from: hailcrusaders on February 17, 2017, 07:27:06 PM
Announcers are saying that Tevonn got tossed for a fraction of what Grayson Allen (Duke) has done many times and gotten away with.
If that isn't the perfect analogy for the Jubril situation, I don't know what is.
How in the hell did the referees come to this conclusion. It was ridiculous, are you kidding me what was he supposed to do with his legs when the guy isstanding right over him.
Plus we got 2 free throws taken away!
They've got our number this year. Too quick. No team in the league takes us out of our game the way Oakland does. Kampe's had plenty of cracks at us. And when Peters is missing FTS, well, you know the rest.
Tevonbs momentum was going back so his leg was swinging up.
Max is awful tonight.
Have we had a close game in 2017?
I love how calm Matt is right now. I hate how calm Matt is right now.
I guess what concerns me most is our inability to compete with other top-level HL teams. We're 1-3 against Green Bay and Oakland, and those three losses have not been close. Sure, we're in first place because we've beaten the likes of Detroit on off shooting nights, but we won't be playing Detroit in the HL championship.
On a lighter note, the ESPN graphic on the HL tournament bracket listed UIC as 'CHICAGO ILLINOIS' and I couldn't help but laugh.
Yet another fine showing by Valpo on national tv. Great pattern. :(
Lottich appeared to be completely out-coached by Kampe, and the guys were just outplayed tonight. The team understandably was distracted. The coaches have to step up in these sorts of games to help the guys overcome bad news and adversity.
Some were wondering how the JA thing would affect us. I guess we found out...negatively. I can handle Alec and the #23 thing, but the t-shirts were over the top. Let's forget the Jubril thing and get on with it. Now is the time for Matt L to get things in perspective, including himself. It looked like we often times had a care less attitude on the floor and we were not focused.
That is a coaching problem. Now, LETS RUN THE TABLE!!
QuoteSome were wondering how the JA thing would affect us. I guess we found out...negatively.
Being down two starters for 18 games because of NCAA unfairness finally caught up with us. (Yes, two starters. Keith Carter should be out there every game this year, and I'm now convinced the NCAA intentionally dragged their feet on that to make it difficult for VU to fill his spot).
I saw that! They also had "UCI" for UIC on the side-slate. And, I was unaware Wichita State had replaced Wright State in the Horizon League, which they also had up at one point.
Solid performance by OU, even without the starting guard (IP FREELY).
Now it makes VU play out the final conference games which isn't a bad thing.
The statement by Alec wearing #23 and the other players wearing similar warm-up shirts is fine with me. However, that should translate into an aggressive attitude on the court, especially if you feel your teammate has been screwed by the NCAA. That did not happen. In addition, I am a big supporter of Matt and never criticized him before, but he needs to be more agitated at times. When Tevonn was ejected wrongly (I looked at the replay and did not see anything resembling a Flagrant 2. If anything there should have been a no-call since the Oakland player was standing over Tevonn in a taunting position.), Matt should have been much more forceful in defense of his player. The body language displayed by Matt in the last 10 minutes of this game was disappointing, much too passive and not inspiring for his team. Hell, Matt still even had his jacket on! ;)
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 17, 2017, 08:22:31 PM
QuoteSome were wondering how the JA thing would affect us. I guess we found out...negatively.
Being down two starters for 18 games because of NCAA unfairness finally caught up with us. (Yes, two starters. Keith Carter should be out there every game this year, and I'm now convinced the NCAA intentionally dragged their feet on that to make it difficult for VU to fill his spot).
Get your head out and f your ____. The NCAA is too busy counting their stacks of cash to give a crap about us.
The shirts were fine and sent a message to the NCAA and their fallen teammate.
Not totally unexpected outcome. Valpo couldn't hit 3s and Oakland did. Valpo didn't value the ball in the first half and didn't get to the line somehow. Valpo's freshmen played like freshmen, Oaklands Brock played like a 23-24 year old...
I disagree that Lottich got out coached, everything was stacked against them tonight. I applaud the teams effort. I thought the Tevonn thing should've been a double technical but it didn't matter he wasn't playing well at all anyways. Just win out and get all the momentum going into the tournament.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 17, 2017, 08:22:31 PM
QuoteSome were wondering how the JA thing would affect us. I guess we found out...negatively.
Being down two starters for 18 games because of NCAA unfairness finally caught up with us. (Yes, two starters. Keith Carter should be out there every game this year, and I'm now convinced the NCAA intentionally dragged their feet on that to make it difficult for VU to fill his spot).
I usually don't buy into this stuff, but this is just too obvious. The NCAA is clearly targeting Valpo. :rant: :rant:
Quote from: EddieCabot on February 17, 2017, 08:36:49 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 17, 2017, 08:22:31 PM
QuoteSome were wondering how the JA thing would affect us. I guess we found out...negatively.
Being down two starters for 18 games because of NCAA unfairness finally caught up with us. (Yes, two starters. Keith Carter should be out there every game this year, and I'm now convinced the NCAA intentionally dragged their feet on that to make it difficult for VU to fill his spot).
I usually don't buy into this stuff, but this is just too obvious. The NCAA is clearly targeting Valpo. :rant: :rant:
Name one reason they could have to target VU. I want to hear this.
Right...some of you guys need to get together and write a conspiracy novel. "No Compliance" - an erotic thriller on the NCAA's mission to destroy Valpo hoops...based on true events.
A couple thoughts on the game:
-They flat-out out played us today. They're team is built to play against our Valpo teams. Oakland is very athletic and it counteracts Valpo's strengths.
-Smits is just an awful matchup with Oakland. He was by far the slowest big man out there and it showed. He's not experienced enough to learn to use his size on defense. He'll never quick but he has size and length and he needs to learn to defend against much quicker athletes like Brock and Hayes.
-Alec did his part but the rest of the team didn't do enough other then Sorolla who played huge minutes and was big on defense. Shane's number end up looking solid but there were some end of the game garbage minute buckets.
-We need shooters!! I can not stress this enough. We have Alec and not much else. Shane can hit 3's but thats not a pure strength. Tevonn, Maxx, Lexus are average to below average shooters. Micah is actually has a solid jump shot and 3 pt shot but he's a freshman and it doesn't show all the time. Micah has look better but there were some momentum shifting turnovers in the first half (he wasn't the only one). This is why Stefanovic was an important recruit for us.
-We are a VERY short bench! Plain and simple. We are not deep this season because of the Jubril suspension, Skara transfer, 3 redshirts, and 3 walk-ons and we are relying on 2 freshman big men who have their good moments and their bad moments. I've been very impressed with Sorolla's defense and his developing offense. Smits has good games but then he has maddening games (particular on defense). I don't want to $hit on Smits because he's a freshman and this should be expected, but his defense is tough to watch sometimes. He's 7'2" and needs to position himself better on defense.
-I'm just waiting for Grizz to compare that BS technical on Tevonn to Domestic Assault.
-Credit to Oakland. They were just better.
Oakland shot 31 free throws. We shot 28 percent from 3 point range. That was the game.
I'm guessing the Jubril decision had a negative effect on the team but the bigger negative was the officiating and our lack of fire. The same thing happened at Green Bay. Against Oakland they shoot 30 Free throws, we shoot 12. They out rebound us 41-31.. At Green Bay they shoot 35 free throws and we shoot 18. They out rebound us 53-35.
Other then our home loss to Oakland, we have been out rebounded in every other loss.
Wasn't Tevonn fouled on the play before his ejection? He was tripped up while driving to the basket! Oh, I forgot...that official was Ted Valentine. What a joke! Still can't figure why the Big 10(or whatever it is now) re-hired him after suspending him for a year or two.
The baseline official who made the original call was Terry Wymer. We have had him many, many, many times over the past few years.
The fact that Tevonn didn't get free throws was a missed call, no doubt. But I still have no idea what Tevonn did to get thrown out.
Quote from: valpo64 on February 18, 2017, 09:52:48 AM
Wasn't Tevonn fouled on the play before his ejection? He was tripped up while driving to the basket! Oh, I forgot...that official was Ted Valentine. What a joke! Still can't figure why the Big 10(or whatever it is now) re-hired him after suspending him for a year or two.
I found it insane how the Oakland player didn't get penalized for tripping Walker, who was going full speed... That was a really dangerous play. Not to mention standing over him afterwards. Instead of two free throws, which Davidson came in to shoot, they got the ball after two free throws, and immediately shot a three over Davidson. That sequence was essentially a 7 point swing, and pretty much ended the game for Valpo.
That game was a huge gut punch, but fortunately it didn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, unless you're a big fan of the NIT. Valpo has been pretty decent following losses, so hopefully they can rally and #runthetable.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on February 18, 2017, 10:01:55 AM
The baseline official who made the original call was Terry Wymer. We have had him many, many, many times over the past few years.
The fact that Tevonn didn't get free throws was a missed call, no doubt. But I still have no idea what Tevonn did to get thrown out.
That play was no clearer for anyone at the O'Rena. We get fouled and it ends up in an Oakland 5 point swing and our player getting thrown out of the game. How officials let that happen was beyond belief. It took over several minutes and all three refs conferring to make a bonehead decision like that. I was yelling things I would never say any time before. Unbelieveable! I still am utterly dumbfounded how that happened.
Is there anyway that a team can request that Wymer (T'd-up Bryce a few years back at Oakland) and Valentine can be assigned to other games? Those two refs are blatantly anti-Valpo (as it seems the NCAA is also) and should be officially black balled by Valpo.
I thought Tevonn could've kept his foot down, but to not give Valpo the shooting foul or give their guy a T for standing over him (taunting) was bogus. I'm really looking forward to kicking their ass in the tournament.
Still scratching my head wonder why Tevonn was ejected. Everyone I watched the game with thought it was going to be a flagrant on the Oakland player and it should have been. We were at a bar so we didn't have the sound to hear what was going on, just the replays.
I also felt like that would've been a good time for Lottich to go absolutely wild, get tossed, and put a fire under the team. It would have been somewhat refreshing to see that given the recent events. Unfortunately, Oakland has valpo's number. Hopefully someone will knock them out in the conference tourny so we don't have to play them again.
Was just on the Oakland boards for the Valpo vs Oakland game. Our own board here is references a few times.
Its interesting to get the other sides perspective: http://goldengrizzlyhoops.proboards.com/thread/1808/game-thread-ou-valparaiso
-they bring up the Jubril thing
-They also bring up how we are soft on Sorolla for the drinking thing and that we here lied about his blood alcohol intake #
-A quote from their board, "Tonight its statement time. We have the athletes to contain Peters. We know how to beat this team and this game lacks no motivation. There is no Fernandez down low this year. I hear rumblings of how Smits and there other Sh*tty centers have developed over the last so many games. Well, our freshman center has been the horizon league player of the week since that time and he's healthy now. I expect the Brock show to be our x factor tonight in limiting these Valpoites. OU 82 Valpo 75. Le Goo"
-A quote from their board, "The more I watch. The happier I am that Valpo has a new coach. He's not the greatest, just has a good team."
-Another quote, "I haven't watched a replay yet from my view it was obvious that tevonn walker was trying to kick martez in the peas and carrots. Looked pretty dirty to me."
-another quote, "If you're looking for the crotch shot, its a few seconds before the hour mark on the ESPN 3 replay."
-A couple people disagreed with the call on their board.
It may have been mentioned before somewhere but that Oakland court is hideous. It's by far the ugliest court I have ever seen. Made it look like the tv was in black and white.
Quote from: valpolaw on February 18, 2017, 01:31:36 PM
It may have been mentioned before somewhere but that Oakland court is hideous. It's by far the ugliest court I have ever seen. Made it look like the tv was in black and white.
Also, I really get tired of seeing smits committing a foul and then whining about it.
Plus, the video quality is terrible because light doesn't reflect off the floor too well. And they have those stupid LED lights that don't properly light the floor.
Quote from: M on February 18, 2017, 11:34:56 AM
I thought Tevonn could've kept his foot down, but to not give Valpo the shooting foul or give their guy a T for standing over him (taunting) was bogus. I'm really looking forward to kicking their ass in the tournament.
Not sure if he kicked the guy or not but my guess is that the two of them had been banging pretty hard all game. I did notice that when Tevonn got up he kind of kicked toward the guy and he clearly backed away (smart kid!) I doubt any of their guys really want Tevonn mad at them!
My puzzler was why we started Smits and not Sorrola if we were going to rotate. I think Jay is the secret weapon with that hook shot. Even Oakland's bigs can't stop it without goaltending. Shane and Alec will have to hit outside 3s and Sorrola will simply have be amazing inside for us to win two games on two days.
VU2014 nailed it. I will summarize:
Oakland is deeper (biggest problem by far)
Oakland is longer
Oakland is quicker
Jubril would have helped us a lot with #! and #2 but that is a moot point now. Let it go!!
We will have to shoot very well early in a game at the JLA and put the pressure on them not to choke. We are now the underdog quite clearly.
In regards to the Tevonn call, I saw it clear as day at the game, and saw the same exact thing again when I rewatched the game when I got home. The Oakland player stood directly over Tevonn, stared down at him, and said something, not backing off (taunting, just like I was yelling at the game as soon as it happened). Tevonn tried to sit up and the other guy was still standing over him. Tevonn grabbed the Oakland player's ankles and pushed his legs back so he could get up.
The kick to the crotch was not a kick at all. As he fell, his one leg was pointed straight up. As it was coming down, it got wrapped up in the Oakland player's shorts (his crotch). Tevonn lifted his leg again to try to bring it back down to the floor. Try falling onto your back and keeping a leg pointed straight up to the ceiling. Not comfortable at all. He could have been injured. The Oakland player should have backed off.
I would have not at all argued to a double flagrant 1 technical. But to only call a flagrant 2 on Tevonn was way out of line.
And I definitely agree to wishing Coach Lottich would have finally lost it and gotten ejected as well. Time to stand up for the team and, like was said before, light a fire under them. If anything like this happens in the tournament, I really hope he goes off.
QuoteAnd I definitely agree to wishing Coach Lottich would have finally lost it and gotten ejected as well. Time to stand up for the team and, like was said before, light a fire under them. If anything like this happens in the tournament, I really hope he goes off.
Agreed he should have got his $ worth giving Valentine an ear full and then getting thrown. Although I'm not sure about getting tossed in the conference tourney though. Maybe. Usually you want the coach there for the potential final game calling all the shots.
How is the Free Throw differential not getting talked about enough here. Oakland went to the line 31 to Valpo's 12(!!!!!). I don't want to take anything a way from Oakland because they played better yesterday, especially Martez Walker, Hayes and Nick Daniels, but that differential is telling. Martez Walker is a great player but I strongly root against that kid. Talked a ton of trash last night, chirped at the refs, and stood over Tevonn after the trip and then (supposed "kick"). When you throw in the domestic abuse history I just can't root for that kid.
Nick Daniels was hitting BIG 3s everytime it seemed we were starting a small run. And Brock was a beast. That kid is a full grown man and super athletic. He made big blocks. Brachting their young center had some big plays (particularly when Sorolla looked tired from the heavy minutes load).
Oakland is a good team and they'll probably be the favorite next year with only Sherron Dorsey-Walker graduating and replacing him with former 4 star recruit Kendrick Nunn who will have one more year of eligibility after getting kicked off the University Illinois team last spring. I've saw Kendrick play when he was in high school (played at Simeon with Jabari Parker and Darien Walker) and I watch a decent amount of Illini basketball. He's really good.
Quote from: vu72 on February 18, 2017, 02:52:03 PM
Quote from: M on February 18, 2017, 11:34:56 AM
I thought Tevonn could've kept his foot down, but to not give Valpo the shooting foul or give their guy a T for standing over him (taunting) was bogus. I'm really looking forward to kicking their ass in the tournament.
Not sure if he kicked the guy or not but my guess is that the two of them had been banging pretty hard all game. I did notice that when Tevonn got up he kind of kicked toward the guy and he clearly backed away (smart kid!) I doubt any of their guys really want Tevonn mad at them!
Agree with M, Tevonn could have kept his foot down. But I get really sick of this taunting I see from OUs guys...that's playground. I might've kicked him in the jewels too. Ref was harsh for Tech2, still think the FT disparity comes down to our guards sucked in both OU games.
Quotestill think the FT disparity comes down to our guards sucked in both OU games.
Agreed. I don't want be harsh but other teams know they don't have to play close man to man defense beyond the 3pt line with our guards unless they are on some kind of hot streak from beyond the arc and feeling it. They know they can take a step or two back prevent our guys from taking hard to the paint. Also Brock had some big time blocks in the paint which may have damaged some in game confidence of taking to the hoop.
Quote from: valpolaw on February 18, 2017, 12:22:31 PMI also felt like that would've been a good time for Lottich to go absolutely wild, get tossed, and put a fire under the team.
That is exactly what I thought a few feet from the Valpo bench. I was spewing hatred towards those two blatantly anti-Valpo refs (Wymer and Valentine) and thinking we need Lottich to go ballistic on them. You just can't take it lying down. Do you think Kampe would have raised an unholy stink if the refs had made a call like that against Oakland?
Quote from: bbtds on February 19, 2017, 05:18:30 AMDo you think Kampe would have raised an unholy stink if the refs had made a call like that against Oakland?
I am sure we would have seen a more extreme version of the Kampe Meltdown. (https://goo.gl/photos/qwNmRkgXd5zwZZsu6)
TV Teddy at it again.
Quote from: FWalum on February 19, 2017, 12:51:20 PM
Quote from: bbtds on February 19, 2017, 05:18:30 AMDo you think Kampe would have raised an unholy stink if the refs had made a call like that against Oakland?
I am sure we would have seen a more extreme version of the Kampe Meltdown. (https://goo.gl/photos/qwNmRkgXd5zwZZsu6)
We probably need our HC on the show sideline more than sending a message getting tossed. I've never felt getting tossed does what the movie "Hoosiers" suggests it does. Personally I was hoping with Lottich's "fire" for competition that he DIDNT Bobby Knight it up on the sideline.
Wow, it's been awhile since I stopped by here.
As one who also lost his :censored: in the Valpo fan section during that 2nd half (Count on it, I will always be at the Valpo-Oakland game at the O'Rena), I have since seen a GIF of the play, and the leg kick was not momentum. I am told, and find it believable, that the Oakland player was anticipating a rebound and that's why he landed on top of Tevonn. It all happened very quickly. Moreover, Tevonn didn't give him a chance to back away.
To be honest, I figure the frustration from that afternoon and the frustration of the game so far may have boiled over in Tevonn. I think the leg kick was instinctive, but it was intentional. If I had no problem with Bobby's ejection 4 years ago at Calihan, I can't have any problem with Tevonn's ejection. Both Kampe and the OU player after the game shrugged it off with no hard feelings.
I do have a problem with them diagnosing the trip of Tevonn as a non-shooting foul. We absolutely should have gotten free throws on that. And technically, OU did get penalized - their player was charged with a foul (it didn't matter, of course; he didn't foul out).
I thought Peters got tripped with no call, and there were a few other outrageous calls that had me fuming.
That game sucked mainly because Oakland dominated us twice this year. They're not our little brother any more. That's life.