Do you believe you have a better chance to win the HLT at Joe Lewis Arena or the Orena. So you would have had to come to the Detroit area this year anyway. Would you rather have it at the Joe or in the O. Oakland has everyone back but one and has a NBA level player joining the team next year, so it is very possible they will be number 1 seed next year too. If that is the case and I say "if". Then 2 of the first 3 years of this contract you would be saved of having to come to the Orena. Just wondering your thoughts now that your not the number 1 seed
We've won more games at the Orena then we have the Joe over the past two years so I will go with that. I am glad though, that we don't have to see that ugly court on tv, haha!
Let me ask you, if the HL changed locations and moved to Chicago next year (but didn't say anything until just about the start of the season) would that upset you a little?
Grizz, from experience, I would worry about next year, next year. You're the number one seed in a tournament played in your backyard. Go win the thing before you worry about our feelings. But, hey. Maybe Grayson Allen will finally snap all the way off and punch someone on the court and you can add him next year too.
It was just an honest question cheesehead but your response was predictable. Yea, we would probably take Allen, in fact I heard Kampe has ask the NCAA if your academic cheater could get another year because we want him, and after T. Walker got thrown out of our game for kicking one of our players in the no-no I heard Kampe went to your locker room and told him to transfer to Oakland because he would fit in, and then when your Freshman center got arrested he called to find out if he was interested in Oakland because he could take the same substance abuse classes that Kampe had Stevie Clark take.
As to M, yea your right. I would have no trouble playing this in Chicago, but if it was decided this summer, in a year we think we are going to be very good, I'm sure our fan base would be upset.
Quote from: Grizz on February 27, 2017, 08:10:22 AM
It was just an honest question cheesehead but your response was predictable. Yea, we would probably take Allen, in fact I heard Kampe has ask the NCAA if your academic cheater could get another year because we want him, and after T. Walker got thrown out of our game for kicking one of our players in the no-no I heard Kampe went to your locker room and told him to transfer to Oakland because he would fit in, and then when your Freshman center got arrested he called to find out if he was interested in Oakland because he could take the same substance abuse classes that Kampe had Stevie Clark take.
As to M, yea your right. I would have no trouble playing this in Chicago, but if it was decided this summer, in a year we think we are going to be very good, I'm sure our fan base would be upset.
"Substance abuse" lol. Wouldn't expect anything less from someone who thinks beating a woman is equal to cheating on a test.
If you guys (Oakland) are the number 1 seed next year and probably definitely will be with the heavy favorites because of a lot talented seniors and adding Kendrick Nunn, then I do believe you guys should have had the right host the tournament. I liked how the tournament rewarded it to the number 1 seed.
But this either way I think the Oakland and Detroit-Mercy have a pretty sweet deal having the tourney in your backyard. Advantage to you guys either way it plays out.
This is all hypothetical anyways and you just asked the question to rub the #1 seed in our faces. We still both split the Conference Regular season title. Hopefully AP can come back healthy for the Conference Tourney and maybe we will meet up in the Title game.
Quote from: Grizz on February 27, 2017, 03:20:15 AM
Do you believe you have a better chance to win the HLT at Joe Lewis Arena or the Orena. So you would have had to come to the Detroit area this year anyway. Would you rather have it at the Joe or in the O. Oakland has everyone back but one and has a NBA level player joining the team next year, so it is very possible they will be number 1 seed next year too. If that is the case and I say "if". Then 2 of the first 3 years of this contract you would be saved of having to come to the Orena. Just wondering your thoughts now that your not the number 1 seed
Can we please put this argument to bed. It is what it is. Would we rather play at Valpo when we earn it, of course. Ask any fan anywhere in the HL and they would agree....not going to happen. This is year 2 let's move on. When Grizz is the moral voice on any situation it is time.
I am of the opinion that Oakland will still not win. Not sure who will but I think it will be someone else.
Quote from: IndyValpo on February 27, 2017, 08:45:46 AMI am of the opinion that Oakland will still not win. Not sure who will but I think it will be someone else.
Totally agree. Having the most fans at a tournament doesn't guarantee that a team will win the tournament. Sleeping near your campus is not a deciding factor. It's a big advantage but doesn't seem to be a huge advantage to Oakland. Just look at the Grizzlies home/road win totals in conference.
6-3 home
8-1 road.
The other question is would the Grizzlies have won any games without Martez Walker.
Ah yes, the moral equivalency argument. Underage drinking and a cheated test is WAY WAY worse than having multiple domestic assault arrests on our team. How do i know? Cheating on a test cost 20+ games, slapping your girlfriend? 0.
And, hey, i at least respect the fact that Oakland is up front with their mentality. "We are win at all costs, we don't care what anyone thinks about us or our players." And there is nothing at all wrong with that mentality, but you better be prepared to accept the criticism that goes with it. If we had taken Nunn and you hadn't already accepted Martez Walker, you would be screaming at us for being hypocrites.
I would much prefer to play at the O'Rena, versus playing at the Joe. All of the empty seats at the Joe will affect more shots than a packed house at your stadium.
I also agree that you are only bringing this up because you wanted to rub the #1 seed in our face (it is pretty evident based on your statements), but the records will show that it was a co-championship, and both schools will get banners. The same thing happens with every other conference that has a tie for first place, so I don't think that it cheapens our claim at all, especially when Alec Peters didn't play in the last 2 games.
I am not going to touch your attempted jabs at our players, when I/everyone have already mentioned that you can't compare the two programs and their ethical stance. Are you saying that your players with a domestic abuse background, are 100% clear of academic cheating? Or, could it be that they have also cheated, and just don't admit to it or are not caught? I am pretty sure that if your administration had found out that a player cheated, they would have recommended a 1 game or no suspension, versus the 1/2 season that we imposed on Jubril, before the NCAA verdict came down. Would Oakland even report it to the NCAA, as we did?? ???
Grizz, To answer your question, I would rather play at the Joe Lewis than the O'rena.
But the #1 seed deserves to host and the HL needs to send its best team. Oakland earned to right to host. How sweet would that be for Oakland and it's fan base?
The next best thing to hosting it on your campus is to have it down the street. Really nice alternative.
I would rather the tournament be at the O-rena because Oakland tied for the best record and won both games head-to-head. They deserve it. The conference had a very good format before last season and broke it by doing the agreement to play in JLA and then the new arena in Detroit.
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 27, 2017, 04:04:01 PM
I would rather the tournament be at the O-rena because Oakland tied for the best record and won both games head-to-head. They deserve it. The conference had a very good format before last season and broke it by doing the agreement to play in JLA and then the new arena in Detroit.
I completely agree. The atmosphere would be electric for home fans and visitors alike.
Now, let me ask Grizz a question. How would you feel about the move to a "neutral" site if it were Indianapolis, IN or Columbus, OH or Chicago on a Tuesday night instead of down the road in Detroit. How would you feel about 400 Oakland fans at your championship game instead of 4000? That's what 8 of 10 fan bases are left with.
Good for Oakland winning the regular season title. Unfortunately, about all that gets you at this point is an automatic bid into the NIT. To answer the question, I would prefer Valpo beats Oakland at Joe Louis Arena since the echo in the empty building will magnify the sobbing of your crazy coach.
I vote for the #1 see hosting period. O-Rena would be fine and well deserved.
If I came on here to rub it in it I would have been direct. I asked a simple question. That's all. We have always gone to a neautral site, Tulsa-south Dakota- where we couldn't even get 400 fans so I know what your talking about, it's why I asked the question. We could debate what players did and didn't do all we want but none of us really know if anyone cheated, assulted or what ever. I will answer the one question though, two years ago the best swimmer on our nationally ranked team, a Australian kid who would swim in olympics for them turned in a paper someone else wrote. He was dismissed from school for a semester which meant he couldn't swim in the NCAA's. he transferred and is now swimming for someone else. They are kids, they do wrong things for what ever reason, pressure, lazy, entitled, isn't it the schools job to educate them and help them learn to overcome their mistakes. Our school has great success stories, your school has great success stories. It's why we are fans.
Quote from: Grizz on February 27, 2017, 07:39:47 PM
If I came on here to rub it in it I would have been direct. I asked a simple question. That's all. We have always gone to a neautral site, Tulsa-south Dakota- where we couldn't even get 400 fans so I know what your talking about, it's why I asked the question. We could debate what players did and didn't do all we want but none of us really know if anyone cheated, assulted or what ever. I will answer the one question though, two years ago the best swimmer on our nationally ranked team, a Australian kid who would swim in olympics for them turned in a paper someone else wrote. He was dismissed from school for a semester which meant he couldn't swim in the NCAA's. he transferred and is now swimming for someone else. They are kids, they do wrong things for what ever reason, pressure, lazy, entitled, isn't it the schools job to educate them and help them learn to overcome their mistakes. Our school has great success stories, your school has great success stories. It's why we are fans.
Kendrick Nunn literally pleaded guilty.
This one is tough for me I will admit. I spent a night in high school holding my sobbing friend and her little brother after her dad beat her mom so bad he dislocated her jaw. It was without a doubt the single most angry I have been in my entire life. To raise your hand in violence against someone who cannot or will not defend themselves is among the most vile things that can be done. To brush that off as a simple mistake is callous and completely misses the point. Does he deserve to go on with his life once the courts have determined he has paid his debt to society? Yes. But don't expect me to cheer him. Don't expect me to celebrate him. Don't expect me to ignore what he has done. Call me high and mighty, call me overly moralistic, but if Valpo ever brought a player like this onto one of their teams I would cease to support that team. And I will not be at the game at the ARC when this man takes the court next year, because the thoughts I would have while doing so would not help me in my walk with God. The very fact that Mr Nunn will have the chance to make millions while his victim will possibly deal with a lifetime of psychological problems shows how out of touch we have become.
But you're right. No different than Sorolla tossing back a couple of beers.
Unfortunately, the ambiance at the Joe was not that great last year and I am not sure if it will be better this year.
However, I do understand why the conference made the move. I cannot blame the commissioner for being ambitious and aspiring that his conference championship game should be watched by more than 5000 fans in the arena. Therefore, even though I am in the minority here, I am glad that the HL tournament is no longer played on campus sites.
Quote from: ValpoFan on February 28, 2017, 02:37:11 PM
Unfortunately, the ambiance at the Joe was not that great last year and I am not sure if it will be better this year.
However, I do understand why the conference made the move. I cannot blame the commissioner for being ambitious and aspiring that his conference championship game should be watched by more than 5000 fans in the arena. Therefore, even though I am in the minority here, I am glad that the HL tournament is no longer played on campus sites.
Beating a dead horse here, but the switch was made because the Detroit arena group gave a big contract to the Horizon League to host, and not because of arena capacity and fan attendance. They're getting a garunteed check out of the deal, which was apparently needed after the league seemingly did nothing with the Butler Final Four money.
The argument FOR the hosted sites has always been about tournament units. Sending your best team ensures a better seed, which dramatically increases the chance of a tournament victory. This is always where the money will be.
I don't know what exactly changed since he first came up with the idea to have home court advantage for the regular season winner. Without Butler, it makes an even stronger argument. I guess LeCrone figured Oakland's strategy of adding women beaters without consequence was a viable strategy for the league's success and Kampe would be a cheerleader for MCM. In my opinion, the rest of the league will watch another +100 RPI team get a tough game in the tournament.
QuoteI don't know what exactly changed since he first came up with the idea to have home court advantage for the regular season winner. Without Butler, it makes an even stronger argument. I guess LeCrone figured Oakland's strategy of adding women beaters without consequence was a viable strategy for the league's success and Kampe would be a cheerleader for MCM. In my opinion, the rest of the league will watch another +100 RPI team get a tough game in the tournament.
Agreed. I would have a lot less issue with the HL moving to a neutral site if it was accompanied by non-conference scheduling requirements similar to what the MVC has in place. Want to emulate Arch Madness? Emulate the system that's helped them be a multi-bid league more often than not, where the conference tournament isn't the only path for their top team to get in the NCAAs.
Quote from: Grizz on February 27, 2017, 08:10:22 AMbut if it was decided this summer, in a year we think we are going to be very good, I'm sure our fan base would be upset.
And our fan base would be scolding you over it.
I have no doubt both would be true.
Quote from: wh on February 27, 2017, 04:33:04 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 27, 2017, 04:04:01 PM
I would rather the tournament be at the O-rena because Oakland tied for the best record and won both games head-to-head. They deserve it. The conference had a very good format before last season and broke it by doing the agreement to play in JLA and then the new arena in Detroit.
I completely agree. The atmosphere would be electric for home fans and visitors alike.
Now, let me ask Grizz a question. How would you feel about the move to a "neutral" site if it were Indianapolis, IN or Columbus, OH or Chicago on a Tuesday night instead of down the road in Detroit. How would you feel about 400 Oakland fans at your championship game instead of 4000? That's what 8 of 10 fan bases are left with.
He already answered that question.
Well Grizz, Oakland surely beats Youngstown at the Orena. See how we feel now?
Quote from: IndyValpo on February 27, 2017, 08:45:46 AM
I am of the opinion that Oakland will still not win. Not sure who will but I think it will be someone else.
Boom, gone!
The bigger issue with the tourney is the location not the format. Needs to be more centrally located. It is also the schedule.
They need to make it Thursday-Sunday. Having it on two weekdays makes it too hard to schedule for a vacation. If you have it Thursday-Sunday people could possibly take a half day on a Friday and Thursday is only for the bottom four teams anyway so who cares.
I get they want to get on ESPN and that's probably why they have it in the current format, but I think if they laid the law and said this is what we are going to do take it or leave it ESPN, ESPN would make it work to broadcast the game on a Sunday.