.....how far will this team go?
Winning two nights in a row with our depth is tough enough with Alec on the floor.
However, I don't rule this team out, even without him. We played NKU tough, but they aren't as quick as Oakland or as savvy as Green Bay.
can you delete this topic?
Why? He's wearing a foot cast correct? Healing even from a severe sprain takes a couple of weeks and then some time for rehab and getting up to speed. It's likely he won't play many, if any games.
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 27, 2017, 08:23:23 PM
Why? He's wearing a foot cast correct? Healing even from a severe sprain takes a couple of weeks and then some time for rehab and getting up to speed. It's likely he won't play many, if any games.
It's not a cast. It's a boot. And it's not a sprain. It's a stress reaction. He has been playing on the injury since the start of the month.
Quote from: jsher3141 on February 27, 2017, 08:58:28 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 27, 2017, 08:23:23 PM
Why? He's wearing a foot cast correct? Healing even from a severe sprain takes a couple of weeks and then some time for rehab and getting up to speed. It's likely he won't play many, if any games.
It's not a cast. It's a boot. And it's not a sprain. It's a stress reaction. He has been playing on the injury since the start of the month.
It's come into strong question what Jeff Goodman really knows on Alec's injury...time will tell.
I also second Ickow's comment about the HL tournament. It's done, let's plan as such.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 27, 2017, 09:26:07 PMQuote from: jsher3141 on February 27, 2017, 08:58:28 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on February 27, 2017, 08:23:23 PMWhy? He's wearing a foot cast correct? Healing even from a severe sprain takes a couple of weeks and then some time for rehab and getting up to speed. It's likely he won't play many, if any games.
It's not a cast. It's a boot. And it's not a sprain. It's a stress reaction. He has been playing on the injury since the start of the month.
It's come into strong question what Jeff Goodman really knows on Alec's injury...time will tell. I also second Ickow's comment about the HL tournament. It's done, let's plan as such.
We can plan as such, but we can also plan for something else and better.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 27, 2017, 09:26:07 PM
Quote from: jsher3141 on February 27, 2017, 08:58:28 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 27, 2017, 08:23:23 PM
Why? He's wearing a foot cast correct? Healing even from a severe sprain takes a couple of weeks and then some time for rehab and getting up to speed. It's likely he won't play many, if any games.
It's not a cast. It's a boot. And it's not a sprain. It's a stress reaction. He has been playing on the injury since the start of the month.
It's come into strong question what Jeff Goodman really knows on Alec's injury...time will tell.
I also second Ickow's comment about the HL tournament. It's done, let's plan as such.
What did Ickow say about the HL tournament? What does "it's done" mean?
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 28, 2017, 07:56:10 AM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 27, 2017, 09:26:07 PM
Quote from: jsher3141 on February 27, 2017, 08:58:28 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 27, 2017, 08:23:23 PM
Why? He's wearing a foot cast correct? Healing even from a severe sprain takes a couple of weeks and then some time for rehab and getting up to speed. It's likely he won't play many, if any games.
It's not a cast. It's a boot. And it's not a sprain. It's a stress reaction. He has been playing on the injury since the start of the month.
It's come into strong question what Jeff Goodman really knows on Alec's injury...time will tell.
I also second Ickow's comment about the HL tournament. It's done, let's plan as such.
What did Ickow say about the HL tournament? What does "it's done" mean?
I'm paraphrasing here, but he said the decision is made so let's move on. He referenced fans dwelling on it despite the inability to change circumstances. It's why I insert no comment (for once) on that thread. I don't enjoy complaining about irreversible things, but I get everyone has varied POV.
If Alec Peters is injured, he shouldn't play. He needs to heal and get ready for the draft.
This team will win the HL tournament with or without Alec Peters.
Quote from: VUOR63 on February 28, 2017, 10:18:15 AMThis team will win the HL tournament with or without Alec Peters.
I honestly can't see it. They will play to the best of their ability but they didn't come close to Oakland on two occasions
WITH Alec. What makes you think Valpo will play much better without Alec? This is hope on your part, surely.
Do you think both Oakland and Green Bay will suddenly regress to mid-season form?
I'm going to need some clarification.
Todd said "It's done." as in.....
1. Those two games without him are over, let's move on.
2. He's not playing in the tournament period.
I see us getting to the semifinal game, but not able to get past a fully healthy GB team.
Todd said "it's done" in reference to the league's decision to move the tournament to Joe Louis Arena/Little Caesars Arena, nothing else.
The way this season has gone with the bad luck, I don't expect Alec to play in the tournament, but I'm still hoping he will somehow pull it off.
The last I checked, this is a Valpo message board so obviously everyone here should look at things with brown/gold colored lenses. However, if you want a more in depth analysis, our guards obviously shoot better without AP on the floor--as evidenced by improved shooting last weekend. That could be because the floor gets opened up or it could be they're more comfortable shooting when they're not taking shots away from the all-american.
If we win, it's because we scored 80+. Keep in mind there's a day in between game 1 and game 2 where as 3/4 will have some tired legs. I think we will beat Milwaukee, Green Bay and NKU for the title (yes, I think Oakland chokes in the semis).
Some seriously pessimistic people on this thread... I do think we have a shot to win the Horizon League Tournament even without Alec. I would a sure of a lot easier with Alec though.
QuoteI see us getting to the semifinal game, but not able to get past a fully healthy GB team.
Green Bay is a good team but they a beatable even without Alec. We'd need to the Freshman Bigs to show up to contain Kanter.
Even against Oakland I'd think we'd have a shot to beat if we met up in the finals. Now that being said, Shane, Tevonn, Lexus, and Sorolla would all need to have a good game and not disappear. I think thats possible for all to have a good night and Oakland to play just average to beat them.
Have a little confidence and don't let the last NKU game get everyones heads down. NKU played great and Valpo's offense was great from all the wings with getting nothing from the bigs and played bad defense.
It will be tough be we can definitely win the HL Touney. Oakland is not Kentucky or Kansas or anything. They are beatable.
I think we win a game or two, but if we make it to the title game, it's questionable. We are on a downward swing, which is not where we want to be now.
On the other hand, it is really difficult to defeat a team 3 times in a season, so Oakland has its work cut out for it if we play them. With Alec we certainly could win that matchup. Without him, it's a minimal chance. But the Pats won the Superbowl despite a minimal chance, so there is a bit of hope (although they had their vesion of Alec Peters at the helm).
Quote from: VUOR63 on February 28, 2017, 12:46:30 PMThe last I checked, this is a Valpo message board so obviously everyone here should look at things with brown/gold colored lenses.
Not "everybody." Some people are fans of our opponents but their opinions should be just as valued. Some of the Valpo fans would much prefer to talk in realities.
Quote from: VUOR63 on February 28, 2017, 12:46:30 PMHowever, if you want a more in depth analysis, our guards obviously shoot better without AP on the floor--as evidenced by improved shooting last weekend.
I don't believe that when Alec went out of a game during most of the season that the guards
obviously shot better. It might have happened against Wright State and the guards shot somewhat better against NKU but I don't believe that it is a given that the guards will shoot better without Alec during the tournament. Did anyone else see it that the Valpo guards
obviously shoot better when Alec was out of the game most of the season? That is not something I noticed as obvious.
Quote from: Mc on February 28, 2017, 02:53:22 PMOn the other hand, it is really difficult to defeat a team 3 times in a season,
This has always been an accepted fallacy. If you actually look at the stats the majority of the time that a team has beaten another team twice they usually beat that team a third time simply because they truly are better. Each game is played individually and all previous games have no true bearing on the next game's result. If you can beat a team in your first and second contests you can just as well beat them in a third contest. Look it up. The stats will reflect it.
I think many of you are seriously underestimating the rest of the league, and overestimating what you can do without Alec. You're a good team with him, no doubt, although not without weaknesses (3pt % etc..). Without him, honestly, as an outsider, its hard to distinguish the Crusaders from other mid-tier HL teams like NKU and Wright State. Hell, UDM might be a tough one if Alec doesn't play, Hogan has feasted on the rest of the HL this year and the Titans have pulled off some big upsets. Don't look too far ahead. My Phoenix won it last year because we truly took it on a game by game basis. If Lottich thinks he's smart for resting Alec for the first game, don't be surprised if you're sent home packing right away.
QuoteIf Lottich thinks he's smart for resting Alec for the first game, don't be surprised if you're sent home packing right away.
There's nothing "smart" (or dumb) about it, nor is it solely Lottich's call. If Alec doesn't play in the first game, it means he's not cleared by medical staff to play. Otherwise, he'll be out there.
Being cleared by medical staff and being game ready are two different things. The fact of the matter is if you guys don't approach the tourney one game at a time and instead project yourselves into the finals, you'll never get there.
Quoteoverestimating what you can do without Alec
Only played 2 games without Alec. Not a lot of tape for many opposing fans to see us without Alec... Goes both ways. I get what you mean though.
Respectfully disagree and I see how opposing fans who don't watch every Valpo game would think that. Shane Hammink is underrate and Tevonn is a good player (but randomly disappears some game but will always play good D). Sorolla is a good center not just for a freshman (disappears because he's a freshman).
Green is a good team and well coached but I still think we can beat you guys even without Alec. Kanter would be the X-Factor to any game we'd play against Green Bay.
This specific year there are only 4 real contenders: OU, Valpo, NKU and GB.
Decent Team: Wright State (could make a run if they get hot)
Bad Teams: UWM, Detroit, YSU, Cleveland State
Valpo does not win the tournament without Alec Peters. Not enough depth. CIT or bogus tournament here we come. Sorry, I need to buy my brown and gold kool aid.
My take aways as an outsider from watching most HL games throughout the year:
- Peters makes the entire offense click. Even when he is on the bench to get a breather, the offense looks out of sync. Shots get forced, the frontcourt doesn't rebound or get second chance points.
- Sorolla and Smits have potential, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they are "good" big men. Kanter (who is still a pretty raw talent, all things considered) absolutely worked them in the post. If either of them had to go one on one with Hogan or Odiase for an entire game, it would be a bloodbath.
- Hammink is a true X-factor. If he is on, it makes beating the Crusaders that much tougher. When he is in one of his head case moods, its like playing 5 v 4.
Valpo definitely has real weaknesses and everyone has a shot to win in this condensed tournament.
I still think we could win it all even though are chances are less without Alec.
Still blows my mind that we are competitive team with NCAA screwing us on Carter/Jubril, politics of the Skara transfer, AP playing hurt for the final 8 games (out the last 2 of 8), super short bench, 2 freshman bigs (only those 2 bigs other then Alec), 3 walk-ons, and 3 shirts (2 after a transfer midseason).
I know the case could have been made for Brannen (most likely winner) for coach of the year because the success from D2 so soon, Kampe for a good year, but you could make a very compelling argument for Lottich. Lottich won't win because the expectation were high coming into the season and when you have AP it hurts your chances are hurt.
Quote from: yayphoenixyay on February 28, 2017, 03:40:05 PM
My take aways as an outsider from watching most HL games throughout the year:
- Peters makes the entire offense click. Even when he is on the bench to get a breather, the offense looks out of sync. Shots get forced, the frontcourt doesn't rebound or get second chance points.
- Sorolla and Smits have potential, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they are "good" big men. Kanter (who is still a pretty raw talent, all things considered) absolutely worked them in the post. If either of them had to go one on one with Hogan or Odiase for an entire game, it would be a bloodbath.
- Hammink is a true X-factor. If he is on, it makes beating the Crusaders that much tougher. When he is in one of his head case moods, its like playing 5 v 4.
Hammink statement is absolutely perfect, as infrequent as it may be.
Our centers are not as advanced as Kanter, but doesn't mean their ceiling is lower than his.
Comment about Peters is solid before we played without him the last two games, much more flow and much less "deer in a head lights" as he describes. But when you have the best all around player in the HL you can become despondent.
Thanks for sharing, much nicer than some of the judgmental outside comments.
Quote from: yayphoenixyay on February 28, 2017, 03:28:03 PMThe fact of the matter is if you guys don't approach the tourney one game at a time and instead project yourselves into the finals, you'll never get there.
The mood of most of us is "all or nothing". So a loss to Detroit is no worse than to GB or Oakland. Long story short- if Alec can only play limited minutes then Lottich will have to project where best those minutes will be most valuable.
I realize that a first round loss should eliminate us from NIT consideration and I don't care. There are risks in life that are unavoidable so you pick your poison.
Quote from: justducky on February 28, 2017, 05:27:55 PM
Quote from: yayphoenixyay on February 28, 2017, 03:28:03 PMThe fact of the matter is if you guys don't approach the tourney one game at a time and instead project yourselves into the finals, you'll never get there.
The mood of most of us is "all or nothing". So a loss to Detroit is no worse than to GB or Oakland. Long story short- if Alec can only play limited minutes then Lottich will have to project where best those minutes will be most valuable.
I realize that a first round loss should eliminate us from NIT consideration and I don't care. There are risks in life that are unavoidable so you pick your poison.
Of course it is one game at a time for the players -- absolutely correct.. This fan board has a little more flexibility in that regard ::)
http://www.valpotorch.com/sports/article_4d23608e-fe55-11e6-ad40-4783f7dde823.html
Looks like this was published today. Interesting read, especially the last two paragraphs, which make it sound like Alec will be playing.
Quote from: valpolaw on March 01, 2017, 03:17:52 PM
http://www.valpotorch.com/sports/article_4d23608e-fe55-11e6-ad40-4783f7dde823.html
Looks like this was published today. Interesting read, especially the last two paragraphs, which make it sound like Alec will be playing.
Completely depends on when the quotes were given. Matt Ryan could've been quoted that the Atlanta offense played great if he was asked at halftime of the Super Bowl. My guess is The Torch did some advance work on these articles and some of these interviews were done last week prior to Peters sitting out. Just a hunch.
Quote from: Pgmado on March 01, 2017, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: valpolaw on March 01, 2017, 03:17:52 PM
http://www.valpotorch.com/sports/article_4d23608e-fe55-11e6-ad40-4783f7dde823.html
Looks like this was published today. Interesting read, especially the last two paragraphs, which make it sound like Alec will be playing.
Completely depends on when the quotes were given. Matt Ryan could've been quoted that the Atlanta offense played great if he was asked at halftime of the Super Bowl. My guess is The Torch did some advance work on these articles and some of these interviews were done last week prior to Peters sitting out. Just a hunch.
Seems to me Paul is strongly guessing Ale
c is out for the whole tourney.
Quote from: Pgmado on March 01, 2017, 03:44:15 PMMy guess is The Torch did some advance work on these articles and some of these interviews were done last week prior to Peters sitting out. Just a hunch.
Sounds reasonable. It read to me rather like the Indy Star piece. A long feature, prepped in advance, intentionally or unintentionally silent on the most recent developments.
I didn't get a feeling, from the article, either way about Alec's prospects for playing in Detroit.
The only hint that it was up-to-date is the reference to him being POY. But that could have been a last second edit.
On the CONSPIRACY side, might the writer have been asked to downplay or not even mention Alec's injury in order to keep HL opponents guessing going into the tournament???? :-X
Obviously, basketball is different than distance running, but I have had Dr's clear 15 year old girls to finish the last 2 weeks of a season when they have a stress fracture. Obviously they were not allowed to run it every day, but they were allowed to do their races before taking 6 weeks off at the end of the season. Basically the Dr's said, "it is going to hurt, but not much more damage can be done that the 6 weeks won't take care of".
Now, it probably depends on exactly which bone it is and how big the crack is. However, based on the diagnosis of a stress reaction and not a stress fracture, I gotta think he is playing as long as we can get through Saturday without him.
Call me a glass is half full kinda guy but Paul Oren tweeted that Peters injury possibly happened February 4th against Green Bay. Peters played on Senior night and Lottich was hoping Valpo could win at least 1 of 2 road games for a share of the HL regular season championship and locking up a 1 or 2 seed while resting him. The post senior night break gives Peters a little over a week of rest to get ready for the HL tournament. Maybe this was planned?
He actually played 5 games including senior night (and we all were wondering why his RB numbers were suffering). I was at the GB game and held my breath when he got rolled up on and went down. I wondered at that time if he sustained a more long term injury.