OK. Lets forget about all the other BS and let's start talking specifics. We will see one of two opponents. What are the thoughts out there???
Was told this evening by a current senior that there is no support in sending students to Detroit for the HL tournament. VU ticket office told him to buy $15 GA ticket online and there are no plans for a bus or anything. (Note: There is an alumni bus, but are students aware/allowed on/able to finance that?) I understand it is Spring Break and that many are upset that the tourney is in Detroit, but come on. Oakland announced earlier this month at the Valpo home game that they bought 200 tickets for the students and are providing transportation. Can we not even do 25% of that and get 50 tickets and a bus for even some of the students??
Folks complain on the board of student attendance, students standing or sitting during games, etc., but why should students be excited when we cannot even put together the resources getting even some of the diehard students to go the conference championship? I'm very disappointed to say the least. Why would any conference want us when last year as a bubble team, we only had Jubril's Dad, Cameron, 4-5 students, and the band in the student section and we aren't trying to improve upon that this year? It's hard to prove to the MVC that we would send more folks to St. Louis or the A-10 that bus loads are coming to Pittsburgh when it seems that we are stuck in the mud complaining about the "joke" of Motor City Madness. Some food for thought...
As for this first game, I pray that Peters is available just so that we know that he isn't out for the tourney/rest of the year. If he is available, I say use him sparingly and enough to maintain some rest while knocking some rust off and letting the rest of the team continue to build their confidence off of their great efforts at WSU and NKU. If Peters is out, I still like our chances, but certainly would be guarded enough to be concerned on that "3rd time's a charm" theory that seems to occur in basketball.
Quote from: HailVU2014 on February 28, 2017, 12:32:54 AMWas told this evening by a current senior that there is no support in sending students to Detroit for the HL tournament. VU ticket office told him to buy $15 GA ticket online and there are no plans for a bus or anything. (Note: There is an alumni bus, but are students aware/allowed on/able to finance that?) I understand it is Spring Break and that many are upset that the tourney is in Detroit, but come on. Oakland announced earlier this month at the Valpo home game that they bought 200 tickets for the students and are providing transportation. Can we not even do 25% of that and get 50 tickets and a bus for even some of the students??
A little bit different situation there. Oakland being only 35 miles away by bus means shuttling back and forth each day. I don't believe Valpo would make daily trips for the students. So the big rub for the students is the $125 - $200 a day Hotel room. Provided we play more than one game. Not the $15 - $75 ticket or free transportation
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 28, 2017, 01:32:27 AM
Quote from: HailVU2014 on February 28, 2017, 12:32:54 AMWas told this evening by a current senior that there is no support in sending students to Detroit for the HL tournament. VU ticket office told him to buy $15 GA ticket online and there are no plans for a bus or anything. (Note: There is an alumni bus, but are students aware/allowed on/able to finance that?) I understand it is Spring Break and that many are upset that the tourney is in Detroit, but come on. Oakland announced earlier this month at the Valpo home game that they bought 200 tickets for the students and are providing transportation. Can we not even do 25% of that and get 50 tickets and a bus for even some of the students??
A little bit different situation there. Oakland being only 35 miles away by bus means shuttling back and forth each day. I don't believe Valpo would make daily trips for the students. So the big rub for the students is the $125 - $200 a day Hotel room. Provided we play more than one game. Not the $15 - $75 ticket or free transportation
It is a different situation. I'm not asking the athletic office to subsidize all costs like OU is doing, but we can't throw in a couple free tickets for those that make the journey to Detroit? Or organize a bus for say $20 a person and reserve a block of rooms for the students at a reduced rate? For the 2011 HL tournament in Milwaukee, the pep band went back and forth to U.S. Cellular Arena for the Detroit game and Milwaukee games...
Quote from: HailVU2014 on February 28, 2017, 12:32:54 AM. VU ticket office told him to buy $15 GA ticket online
Really? The Motor City Madness ticket page has student tickets at $10. Available at the Joe.
You mentioned that we complain about student attendance. We are speaking about HOME games that are FREE to the students!! There is no excuse for that, unless the majority of students are taking night classes, which I highly doubt is the case. You do have a point in that the school should really have a bus or several busses lined up for students to attend the conference championship. I am not saying that the school should pay for it, but they could at least organize such a thing, and have the students cover the cost.
Yeah, I shed no tears for the students. They had very weak attendance to the free games.
I hate to admit this, but I don't really know or care who we play in the first game. The bottom feeders are pretty much the same team. All that matters is Alex recovering. Rest him unless he has to enter the game to bail it out.
Spring Break. Campus is mostly resident free. Students are scattered. Not a good situation for anyone organizing a mass movement anywhere.
Students had their chance to show they supported this team and failed miserably.
Valpo should not have much difficulty that first round regardless of who plays or does not play. If both teams get lucky enough to make the finals I think there are several ways Valpo can about beating Oakland. Either go with two bigs, play Alec at the 3, go zone and force Oakland to hit their 3 pointers and gobble up every rebound...or do the opposite and go small with Alec at the 5 and play man to man forcing turnovers and dribble drive attacks.
Quote from: M on February 28, 2017, 01:56:54 PM
Students had their chance to show they supported this team and failed miserably.
Valpo should not have much difficulty that first round regardless of who plays or does not play. If both teams get lucky enough to make the finals I think there are several ways Valpo can about beating Oakland. Either go with two bigs, play Alec at the 3, go zone and force Oakland to hit their 3 pointers and gobble up every rebound...or do the opposite and go small with Alec at the 5 and play man to man forcing turnovers and dribble drive attacks.
I say play Alec at the 5 (if he can play). That gives us a stretch 5 and a stretch 4 in Hammink. With Tevonn at the 3 we ware still a good rebounding team. Obviously you can't have that rotation the entire game, but 7 minutes a half we could really do some damage with that and it would be unexpected.
IF we can get to the championship game, that is a lineup that can beat Oakland.
QuoteReally? The Motor City Madness ticket page has student tickets at $10. Available at the Joe.
$10 for Student Tickets?
Valpo gave a decent amount of FREE tickets to students for the Horizon League Tournament when I was a student. Bummer.
Poor college kids have to pay for Tickets, Pay for Hotel (airbnb) and the transportation. Gets a little pricy for them... (especially when add in all that beer & some food).
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 28, 2017, 05:42:48 PM
Quote from: M on February 28, 2017, 01:56:54 PM
Students had their chance to show they supported this team and failed miserably.
Valpo should not have much difficulty that first round regardless of who plays or does not play. If both teams get lucky enough to make the finals I think there are several ways Valpo can about beating Oakland. Either go with two bigs, play Alec at the 3, go zone and force Oakland to hit their 3 pointers and gobble up every rebound...or do the opposite and go small with Alec at the 5 and play man to man forcing turnovers and dribble drive attacks.
I say play Alec at the 5 (if he can play). That gives us a stretch 5 and a stretch 4 in Hammink. With Tevonn at the 3 we ware still a good rebounding team. Obviously you can't have that rotation the entire game, but 7 minutes a half we could really do some damage with that and it would be unexpected.
IF we can get to the championship game, that is a lineup that can beat Oakland.
Interesting, I'd enjoy seeing that non crunch time. But if Jaume doesnt get back to 8 pts 8 rebounds then it's a clear option.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 28, 2017, 06:05:42 PM
QuoteReally? The Motor City Madness ticket page has student tickets at $10. Available at the Joe.
$10 for Student Tickets?
Valpo gave a decent amount of FREE tickets to students for the Horizon League Tournament. Bummer.
Poor college kids have to pay for Tickets, Pay for Hotel (AB&B) and the transportation. Gets a little pricy for them... (especially when add in all that beer & some food).
Anyone ride or know about the bus to Milwaukee game earlier this year. Any takers from the students? This is a wild idea, but couldn't the university bill the students as a company Bills its customers? When you can pay with 20 year terms, all of the sudden this trip becomes "affordable". Wild idea, absolutely. But we do this type of inventive in the business world all the time, with great success. We call it "extended dating" (i.e. 120 day terms OR 4 equal payments 30-60-90-120 days).
Some may make fun, but as a business we have leverage (manufacturer to our distribution) that if they stop paying we stop shipping product. This is similar, a degree turns out to be highly lucrative item to focus repayment.
Detroit does scare me a bit. Jenkins is not a good matchup for us, so if we let them stay close, he could be the key player in the final minutes.
Do you know what I just realized? We basically have only 9 playable players... and 4 of them are freshman (1 walk-on).
Everything is just starting to hit me. But oddly enough after all the tough breaks we've experienced this season (last offseason) we are still a real competitor to challenge for the HL Tournament.
Roster:
Sarters:
-Lexus Williams (PG)
-Tevonn Walker (SG)
-Nick Davidson (SF) - but he's really a SG
-Shane Hammink (SF) - We don't have a real PF on the roster the Alec Injury
-Jay Sorolla (C)
Backups:
-Max Joseph (PG/SG)
-John Kiser (SG/SF)
-Micah Bradford (PG)
-Derrik Smits (C)
For some reason I still have faith. We're well coached and if Shane, Tevonn are on, Lexus is playing a solid PG and Sorolla is getting the job done defensively and rebounding then I think we can still win. #Believe
It's going be a dog fight but this is still doable. And if by chance we do win the HL Conference Tournament then someone should rip the Coach of the Year trophy out of Brannen's hands and hand it to Coach Lottich.
Time to see what Chandler can really do!
Quote from: VU2014 on March 01, 2017, 10:12:15 PMIt's going be a dog fight but this is still doable. And if by chance we do win the HL Conference Tournament then someone should rip the Coach of the Year trophy out of Brannen's hands and hand it to Coach Lottich.
I very much agree with this.
I will be in Detroit cheering this Valpo team on to compete to the best of their ability. They are still stronger than a majority of the HL. I would hope you will cheer for the players that will be on the floor.
Coach Norman Dale:
QuoteIf you put your effort and concentration into playing to your potential, to be the best that you can be, I don't care what the scoreboard says at the end of the game, in my book we're gonna be winners.
QuoteThere's a, um tradition in tournament play- not talk about the next step until you've climbed the one in front of you. I'm sure going to the state finals is beyond your wildest dreams, so let's just keep it right there.
QuoteFive players on the floor functioning as one single unit: team, team, team - no one more important that the other.
It can be a lot more satisfying cheering for the underdog that accomplishes the goals that no one dreamed they would be competing for.
Interesting note that Kenpom still has Valpo winning the HL Tournament, even factoring in the AP injury.
Qtrs Semis Final Champ
2 Valparaiso 100 84.5 62.2 36.0
1 Oakland 100 82.9 54.5 32.3
4 Northern Kentucky 100 52.2 21.3 9.6
3 Green Bay 100 67.8 25.0 9.6
5 Wright St. 100 47.8 18.6 8.1
6 Illinois Chicago 100 32.2 7.6 1.8
8 Cleveland St. 65.9 14.1 4.9 1.5
7 Detroit 56.4 8.8 3.1 0.7
10 Milwaukee 43.6 6.7 2.0 0.4
9 Youngstown St. 34.1 3.1 0.6 0.1
Quote from: jsher3141 on March 02, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
Interesting note that Kenpom still has Valpo winning the HL Tournament, even factoring in the AP injury.
Qtrs Semis Final Champ
2 Valparaiso 100 84.5 62.2 36.0
1 Oakland 100 82.9 54.5 32.3
4 Northern Kentucky 100 52.2 21.3 9.6
3 Green Bay 100 67.8 25.0 9.6
5 Wright St. 100 47.8 18.6 8.1
6 Illinois Chicago 100 32.2 7.6 1.8
8 Cleveland St. 65.9 14.1 4.9 1.5
7 Detroit 56.4 8.8 3.1 0.7
10 Milwaukee 43.6 6.7 2.0 0.4
9 Youngstown St. 34.1 3.1 0.6 0.1
If you read the piece, these numbers do not have the injury factored in.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on March 02, 2017, 02:30:36 PM
Quote from: jsher3141 on March 02, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
Interesting note that Kenpom still has Valpo winning the HL Tournament, even factoring in the AP injury.
Qtrs Semis Final Champ
2 Valparaiso 100 84.5 62.2 36.0
1 Oakland 100 82.9 54.5 32.3
4 Northern Kentucky 100 52.2 21.3 9.6
3 Green Bay 100 67.8 25.0 9.6
5 Wright St. 100 47.8 18.6 8.1
6 Illinois Chicago 100 32.2 7.6 1.8
8 Cleveland St. 65.9 14.1 4.9 1.5
7 Detroit 56.4 8.8 3.1 0.7
10 Milwaukee 43.6 6.7 2.0 0.4
9 Youngstown St. 34.1 3.1 0.6 0.1
If you read the piece, these numbers do not have the injury factored in.
Apologies. After reading 3 paragraphs talking about the injury and pretty much praising the team as a whole for how they have played the last few games, I skipped over that line.
Still, they say that although Oakland may now be the favorite, Valpo is no worse than a close second. Nice to see someone who hasn't written Valpo off without Peters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdaMvy5OBbQ
Was this recorded before the ANNOUNCEMENT or was the subject just avoided?
I'm sure the whole board in in the dumps over the ANNOUNCEMENT cuz it is quite evident no one is interested in the lead up game twixt UWM and UDM that feeds into our Saturday night game.
Let's win this thing and get the 16 seed we deserve, you know because Alec is out. NCAA institution is great! (heavy sarcasm)
QuoteWas this recorded before the ANNOUNCEMENT or was the subject just avoided?
I'm sure the whole board in in the dumps over the ANNOUNCEMENT cuz it is quite evident no one is interested in the lead up game twixt UWM and UDM that feeds into our Saturday night game.
I believe this was taped the day before the Alec being out for the season announcement.
Matt Lottich is a sharp enough coach to put these guys in a position to win. Some things to look for:
-A different zone defense--maybe a zone press to speed up the game and utilize our guard heavy roster.
-Try and get some 1-on-1 match ups on the perimeter that can allow for Hammink/Walker/Joseph to take the ball to the rack
Smits and Sorolla need to play like beasts for three days. I anticipate that they both will have effective games.
The other guards need to bring some energy and come out shooting well.
Put up or shut up time. Or, like Reggie Miller says...it's winning time.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 03, 2017, 10:31:30 AM2
Quote from: VU2014 on March 03, 2017, 10:31:30 AM
QuoteWas this recorded before the ANNOUNCEMENT or was the subject just avoided?
I'm sure the whole board in in the dumps over the ANNOUNCEMENT cuz it is quite evident no one is interested in the lead up game twixt UWM and UDM that feeds into our Saturday night game.
I believe this was taped the day before the Alec being out for the season announcement.
I've not thought about the timeline. But, I thought the video could be perfectly consistent with all the info we have today. He talks about prepping without Alec. He's just focusing on the future, on winning without Alec, and not reflecting on the loss.
We get the winner of the UDM-UWM match-up today.
Comparative scores (all with Alec in the lineup)
1/8 - VU 81-UDM 74 (+7)
2/2 - VU 71 @UWM 53 (+18)
2/19 - Valpo 83 @UDM 63 (+20)
2/12 - Valpo 67 - UWM 61 (+6)
Both home games against these teams were relatively close (7 and 6 point wins) and we crushed them on the road ( 18 and 20 point wins). What does that say about a "neutral" court result for each of these opponents? Do we average the H and A score differentials and assume that will be our margin of victory (sarcasm)? BTW, That would mean we'd beat UDM by 13.5 and UWM by 6.5. That's with Alec. How do you account for Alec's absence and the "X factor" of others taking up some of that slack? Seeking better evaluators of opposing talent and ours than me to actually figure this out.
Detroit was down by 15 or so in the first half, but apparently made a run at the beginning of the half. Milwaukee's up by 27 now with 5:28 to play. They didn't win in February.
Sophomore guard Jeremiah Bell, wears #1, with a career high 27, 20 points above his average.
74-47.
Milwaukee is going to win this game going away. I wasn't all that impressed by them and would rather play UWM than Detroit at the Joe (yes, I'm aware of the home/road splits). Obviously can't look past them tomorrow.
Video was recorded on Wednesday March 1.
It's interesting to approach the tournament as a relative underdog as the 2 seed. I'm not necessarily liking it, but I'm also recognizing that it's not a death knell. Furthermore, I'm already relishing the thought of pulling a "Green Bay" on someone. Regardless, we're already experiencing a theoretical windfall in that we are facing an opponent with a weaker record than the 1 seed faces. I don't think the difference is huge and it certainly shouldn't be a big challenge for Oakland but, matchup differences aside, we probably couldn't have done better than drawing a team that lost 10 of their last 10 regular-season contests (compared to YSU, who lost 8 of their last 10). May the better teams win, I'll state--rather obviously.
I am glad to be playing Milwaukee over Detroit. I think that Detroit matched up better with a non-AP led Valpo team, whereas we can still control the game against Milwaukee. We just need to watch that Skall kid.
If you're not watching YSU and Oakland, you need to be. Fighting Penguins giving everything. Morse is on pace for 40+.
OAKLAND TAKES A DIVE! 81-80!!! UNBELIEVABLE FOLD!!!!!
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2017, 06:33:09 PM
OAKLAND TAKES A DIVE! 81-80!!! UNBELIEVABLE FOLD!!!!!
WHAT A GAME!!!
Morse with the ultimate team play. Only needed 2 made the pass! And I saw STL on TV
Oakland's streak of luck this season (no-call UIC game, missed FTs UWM game, all the stuff that's torpedoed Valpo) finally ran out.
loloakland
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 04, 2017, 06:37:37 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 04, 2017, 06:33:09 PM
OAKLAND TAKES A DIVE! 81-80!!! UNBELIEVABLE FOLD!!!!!
WHAT A GAME!!!
Jalen Hays is a GREAT asset, tonight solidifies that in my mind. OU played a good game, just didn't have an answer for pure heart from YSU big man and Morse. Sort of felt like how OU played us this year with big heart. We just didn't have this type of answer for them.
I strongly believe OU was our poison pill this year. We had a chance with them even without Peters (slight as it may have been). I think we now have an even better chance as I'm sure many of you also believe.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 04, 2017, 06:38:11 PM
Morse with the ultimate team play. Only needed 2 made the pass! And I saw STL on TV
I look forward to hearing his thoughts on the Oakland game. It sounded electric for the last 10 minutes. Prior to that YSU had the home town fans silent.
The MIRACLE begins - OAK takes a dive - Valpo has what it takes to win three and go to the DANCE :dance:
I'm sure Lottich used the Oakland Youngstown game as an example of how the Cru cannot get complacent.
Quote from: hailcrusaders on March 04, 2017, 06:40:04 PM
Oakland's streak of luck this season (no-call UIC game, missed FTs UWM game, all the stuff that's torpedoed Valpo) finally ran out.
I thought it was weird how Oren and Parker were declaring Oakland the winner of the CSU / YSU game on USH. They didn't mention Oakland already losing to CSU by 11 at home and only winning by 2 on the road. They've been a really vulnerable team all year and more recently should have lost to Milwaukee a few weeks ago. Even in their last game vs YSU, they had been playing Oakland fairly close.
I'm not all that surprised Oakland lost. Good luck to them in the NIT, they'll get a winable game vs a weak bubble team.
Are we going to score 15 pts in the first half?
10 minutes into the game and there have been a total of 7 points scored. This is...bizarre. Never seen anything like it at the college level.
What's the over/under on this game hitting double digits...in combined score! :o Man oh man. Much credit to the Valpo faithful who stood for 7 game time minutes.
This is one of the most painful things I have ever watched in a college basketball game!
Need to press and change tempo of this game.
wE WILL SET A RECORD FOR FEWEST POINTS IN A HALF... :o
This is brutal
Is this a failure of the players or the coach?
Dude what the heck is Bradford doing? Running down the clock...then losing the ball twice!
Quote from: mj on March 04, 2017, 07:55:00 PM
Is this a failure of the players or the coach?
Micahs bungle on the final possession was a microcosm of this half.
Just a pathetic showing by Valpo. Well by both teams.
Is there something going on with the floor? Shane was rubbing shoes and the Micah looked like he was skating around?
I hope LeCrone is happy with the awesome neutral site tournament where everyone is treated like royalty and is having a good time *fart noises*. Enjoy your 15 seed, Horizon League.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 04, 2017, 07:59:31 PM
Is there something going on with the floor? Shane was rubbing shoes and the Micah looked like he was skating around?
THERE'S ICE UNDERNEATH.
Are you at the game, 84 ?
This is the time for Shane to step up. And nothing. Bigs are awful. Players deserve a good hunk of the blame but the bottom line is that it's the coaches job to get the players ready to play. They were clearly not ready.
Any 4 guys want to join me on the court to play for either side? We'd provide a better game.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 04, 2017, 08:04:26 PM
Are you at the game, 84 ?
Not at game, still under self-imposed boycott of motor city debacle. Watching on espn3.
They need to run "Carolina" versus this zone to get Hammink going. Backline alley oop.
This is the worst game of basketball I have ever watched
Our players should be embarrassed of themselves. They are not even trying to give an effort. They are just jogging around everywhere. Settling for late shot clock shots, not blocking out, etc. Just an embarrassment.
Quote from: valpotx on March 04, 2017, 08:23:46 PM
This is the worst game of basketball I have ever watched
Add terrible officiating to the 2nd half agenda.
Our performance is disgusting and embarrassing. Hammink threw in the towel 15 minutes ago. Some kind of leadership from our other "stud" senior .leader.
This is like a Seinfeld opposite episode
Shane Hammink....
Hammink isn't even trying...
Win or lose, you know it's killing Peters to not be out there
It's killing Peters to have to watch a middle school game. This is terrible.
And yet....a 1 point game.
Ashamed to be a Valpo fan. Period.
This team does not deserve a postseason bid without AP. They did not even try today. Hammink should have taken the ball to the basket, and couldn't get rid of it fast enough. He did not want to play today. Very embarrassing.
That was pathetic.
Looks like 2017-2018: no Peters, no Adekoya, no Hamink.
Quote from: mj on March 04, 2017, 09:09:21 PM
Ashamed to be a Valpo fan. Period.
Try being an Oakland fan. At least they were at full strength.
Whichever tournament comes calling, whether it is the CBI or CIT, our administration needs to reject it. This is not just an angry rant, but our guys literally looked like they didn't care all game. You get handed the tournament through Oakland losing, and it looked like they were frozen in place all game. This season deserved so much better than that piss poor effort. They should be ashamed of themselves. If they would have lost and given 100%, I would not be saying these types of things.
Disgusting!!!! We were : out-coached, out-played, out- hustled, had who gives a @$&^ attitude(at least it often looked like it). It was a wasted season, and surely was a waste of time and expense to even go to Detroit to play like that and get thoroughly embarrassed. 12 points in a half!! Are you kidding me!
Thanks for the lobotomy VU. This level of performance you have shown when it actually matters should make you cringe. Regular season is the warmup.
We always talk about taking the next step...we did with recruits these last 4 years. But turns out having balls is a prerequisite.
Best of luck Alec, you have a bright future.
I'm speechless. What happened to tonight, both to Valpo and Oakland, was unbelievable. I wonder if this team just mentally threw in the towel because losing Alec was one blow too many for morale. I don't know though...I think they still played hard, just maybe without focus.
First, congrats to a gritty Milwaukee team that took advantage of the situation. Second, this has to be the most disappointing 24-win season. Third, thank goodness this nightmarish season has mercifully come to an end, though the bitter taste will linger. Fourth, the Horizon League tonight has officially reached its lowest point. Fifth, I hope Alec gets healthy soon and his position in the NBA Draft is not negatively impacted.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 04, 2017, 09:16:03 PM
Thanks for the lobotomy VU. This level of performance you have shown when it actually matters should make you cringe. Regular season is the warmup.
We always talk about taking the next step...we did with recruits these last 4 years. But turns out having balls is a prerequisite.
Best of luck Alec, you have a bright future.
And to further the disappointment, NIT last year wasn't even clutch. When you are playing for 3rd place, which anything other than NCAA is, there is no pressure.
This senior class did NOT leave their mark on the TEAM sport of basketball.
What a terrible season. When you're starting a walk on, I guess you can expect as much. The Horizon is about to send yet another bad seed to the tournament. Its really too late to keep singing I told you so, but I hope LeCrone sleeps well tonight.
I wouldn't go that far. Peters is our best player ever, Davidson was a gel/team guy, and Hammink was solid for most of the year, until he decided to send his twin sister Shawna, in his place tonight. Jubril had a great 3 years, and really let his teammates down through not giving 100% in the classroom. I don't think that this Senior class was all that bad.
Don't get me wrong. I want Valpo to win this whole thing. But part of me is ready for the disappointment of this season to be over. Disappointing offseason. Disappointing schedule. Disappointing decision by Jubril to cheat. Disappointing handling by NCAA. Disappointing development from the bigs all season. Disappointing lack of adjustments from the coaching staff. Disappointing no one was able to step up and seize control of this team when the alpha dog goes down. It feels like every single major binary event both on and off the court since this team set foot in JLA last season had gone against us.
Kudos to these kids for persevering through it. But good lord.
Now we enter next year as likely the fourth best team in our conference. This program in the Horizon has no margin for error. We have the worst budget with the worst facilities in the worst market. I can't help but fear that if we spend 2-3 seasons in the middle of the pack we never make it back to elite. And we've already been dealt a blow with the Sasha decision. I have been telling friends for years that Valpo as a program has yet to reach its peak. I'm starting to wonder
And yes, this is a post filled with raw emotions after a tough game. But it is what it is. Whoever has it in their signature, and pardon me for being too lazy to look, that the future of this program is in Lottich's hands could not be more correct.
Why do you say the Horizon League has reached its lowest point? Just because Valpo (the new Butler) lost? Maybe the rest of the league is as competitive as Valpo and Oakland. That is good for the league.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 04, 2017, 09:26:32 PM
Don't get me wrong. I want Valpo to win this whole thing. But part of me is ready for the disappointment of this season to be over. Disappointing offseason. Disappointing schedule. Disappointing decision by Jubril to cheat. Disappointing handling by NCAA. Disappointing development from the bigs all season. Disappointing lack of adjustments from the coaching staff. Disappointing no one was able to step up and seize control of this team when the alpha dog goes down. It feels like every single major binary event both on and off the court since this team set foot in JLA last season had gone against us.
Kudos to these kids for persevering through it. But good lord.
Now we enter next year as likely the fourth best team in our conference. This program in the Horizon has no margin for error. We have the worst budget with the worst facilities in the worst market. I can't help but fear that if we spend 2-3 seasons in the middle of the pack we never make it back to elite. And we've already been dealt a blow with the Sasha decision. I have been telling friends for years that Valpo as a program has yet to reach its peak. I'm starting to wonder
And yes, this is a post filled with raw emotions after a tough game. But it is what it is. Whoever has it in their signature, and pardon me for being too lazy to look, that the future of this program is in Lottich's hands could not be more correct.
We don't have the worst basketball budget... You're just spewing. And schedule? Lol we had a top 25 team play on our home court!
Last thing I want to say is what disappoints me most: during Alec Peters' 4 years here, only one NCAA tournament appearance. In my opinion, he's the best player the program has ever had. That one NCAA tournament appearance was as a sophomore, when he was still pretty raw compared to what he is now. Can you imagine what a beast Alec would have been in the tournament? He demolished his competition in the NIT last year. He really elevated his game. I will always wonder what it would have been like to see the most developed, most skilled, most polished, and most effective version of Alec Peters in the NCAA tournament. Had this team retained Keith Carter, David Skara, and Jubril Adekoya, we would have been even more legit than last year...Dare I say.
Quote from: valpotx on March 04, 2017, 09:26:08 PM
I wouldn't go that far. Peters is our best player ever, Davidson was a gel/team guy, and Hammink was solid for most of the year, until he decided to send his twin sister Shawna, in his place tonight. Jubril had a great 3 years, and really let his teammates down through not giving 100% in the classroom. I don't think that this Senior class was all that bad.
I'll feel that way when I come down from my high horse, but right now and forever in the eyes of the NCAA they are a disappointment. To us they are great, but right now and whenever it mattered they mailed it in.
I believe that our budget is second or third most, not even close to the worst. WSU85, it is not a balanced league. We didn't have the Sixth Man of the Year in 2016 for the entire conference season, and we still went 14-4. We beat Wright State at your place without the conference POY and Jubril. If you take 2 of the best players off any other team, they would be at the bottom of the league. Today was just because of a lack of effort and heart, not talent. That is what is the most aggravating part of the loss.
Quote from: WSU85 on March 04, 2017, 09:30:32 PM
Why do you say the Horizon League has reached its lowest point? Just because Valpo (the new Butler) lost? Maybe the rest of the league is as competitive as Valpo and Oakland. That is good for the league.
Then prove it and win an NCAA game. If you get embarrassed, come see us again. With our team decimated by injury and stupidity we needed OU to advance. They held the only real shot of a Seeding that allowed for upset.
It's nothing personal, but this league is not deep enough to have the best teams upended right now. I'd say the same thing if we were your seed.
The beginning of the season had such high hopes but you can't always get what you want. I feel depressed but it's not the end of the world as we know it. So not going to dwell on it because I want to feel fine. Just want the future to be bright.
Quote from: WSU85 on March 04, 2017, 09:30:32 PM
Why do you say the Horizon League has reached its lowest point? Just because Valpo (the new Butler) lost? Maybe the rest of the league is as competitive as Valpo and Oakland. That is good for the league.
The Horizon League's only two teams in the top-100 rpi lost tonight, which leaves three more days of a tournament for what has become a 1-bid league trying to see which team will be maybe a 15 or 16 seed in the NCAA while likely playing in an empty arena on national television. To me, that is the definition of a low point for the Horizon League.
Quote from: WSU85 on March 04, 2017, 09:30:32 PM
Why do you say the Horizon League has reached its lowest point? Just because Valpo (the new Butler) lost? Maybe the rest of the league is as competitive as Valpo and Oakland. That is good for the league.
Competitive among themselves? Hello 15 seed!
Guess what? The only pathetic thing in my sight right now is our fandom. Its so discouraging seeing everyone dump on the team. Yes the game was terrible but the defense at least kept them in the game. Alec Peters is more than 23 points per game. Teams constantly double team and triple team him making the other players more successful. Give credit to Milwaukee's defense too. They knew that Valpo would be shooting 3's. They defended those shots and lanes where Walker and Hammink would normally drive and score were not there. Peters prescience on the court was worth more than 23 points. Lets not cry over Skara. Or Carter. Or even Jubril's poor decision. It was a successful year up to Peters injury. Wins against Rhode Island, Alabama and BYU were pretty good. I enjoyed this team. I don't think they did not slack off in tonights game as so many others are whining about. Just my 2 cents. And no I'm not a troll. Been a proud season ticket holder foe many years. A VU grad and while I may not post a lot I do read the fan website every day. In the end I know we are fans. Fans have a right to gripe and also to speak well of and for the team. Until next year which many may think will be down, I for one think not. Thanks for reading my "gripe"
Smh, I don't even know where to start....
Quote from: RS on March 04, 2017, 09:52:51 PM
Guess what? The only pathetic thing in my sight right now is our fandom. Its so discouraging seeing everyone dump on the team. Yes the game was terrible but the defense at least kept them in the game. Alec Peters is more than 23 points per game. Teams constantly double team and triple team him making the other players more successful. Give credit to Milwaukee's defense too. They knew that Valpo would be shooting 3's. They defended those shots and lanes where Walker and Hammink would normally drive and score were not there. Peters prescience on the court was worth more than 23 points. Lets not cry over Skara. Or Carter. Or even Jubril's poor decision. It was a successful year up to Peters injury. Wins against Rhode Island, Alabama and BYU were pretty good. I enjoyed this team. I don't think they did not slack off in tonights game as so many others are whining about. Just my 2 cents. And no I'm not a troll. Been a proud season ticket holder foe many years. A VU grad and while I may not post a lot I do read the fan website every day. In the end I know we are fans. Fans have a right to gripe and also to speak well of and for the team. Until next year which many may think will be down, I for one think not. Thanks for reading my "gripe"
Appreciate your two cents. Always good to have a more optimistic mind to balance out the duldroms.
The attendance was 8,481? In what world was that the attendance? lol
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:29 PM
I think we need to stop calling ourselves Butler. In our most dominant stretch as a team we didn't win any tournament games and Peters willc end his career only making it to 1 tournament.Butler actually did things with their good teams.
That was a Wright State poster who referenced Valpo as "the new Butler" in an insult at VU.
Quote from: RS on March 04, 2017, 09:52:51 PM
Guess what? The only pathetic thing in my sight right now is our fandom. Its so discouraging seeing everyone dump on the team. Yes the game was terrible but the defense at least kept them in the game. Alec Peters is more than 23 points per game. Teams constantly double team and triple team him making the other players more successful. Give credit to Milwaukee's defense too. They knew that Valpo would be shooting 3's. They defended those shots and lanes where Walker and Hammink would normally drive and score were not there. Peters prescience on the court was worth more than 23 points. Lets not cry over Skara. Or Carter. Or even Jubril's poor decision. It was a successful year up to Peters injury. Wins against Rhode Island, Alabama and BYU were pretty good. I enjoyed this team. I don't think they did not slack off in tonights game as so many others are whining about. Just my 2 cents. And no I'm not a troll. Been a proud season ticket holder foe many years. A VU grad and while I may not post a lot I do read the fan website every day. In the end I know we are fans. Fans have a right to gripe and also to speak well of and for the team. Until next year which many may think will be down, I for one think not. Thanks for reading my "gripe"
Thumbs up on this. People forget very quickly that an entire season shifts course based on a few moments of things not going the right way. One play where Peters gets hurt changes things dramatically. We also had 3 shots at the end to avoid that terrible loss, just couldn't do it.
Quote from: RS on March 04, 2017, 09:52:51 PM
Guess what? The only pathetic thing in my sight right now is our fandom. Its so discouraging seeing everyone dump on the team. Yes the game was terrible but the defense at least kept them in the game. Alec Peters is more than 23 points per game. Teams constantly double team and triple team him making the other players more successful. Give credit to Milwaukee's defense too. They knew that Valpo would be shooting 3's. They defended those shots and lanes where Walker and Hammink would normally drive and score were not there. Peters prescience on the court was worth more than 23 points. Lets not cry over Skara. Or Carter. Or even Jubril's poor decision. It was a successful year up to Peters injury. Wins against Rhode Island, Alabama and BYU were pretty good. I enjoyed this team. I don't think they did not slack off in tonights game as so many others are whining about. Just my 2 cents. And no I'm not a troll. Been a proud season ticket holder foe many years. A VU grad and while I may not post a lot I do read the fan website every day. In the end I know we are fans. Fans have a right to gripe and also to speak well of and for the team. Until next year which many may think will be down, I for one think not. Thanks for reading my "gripe"
Unfortunately, while Milwaukee DID play good defense, our defense was not very good. We gave up a lot of open looks. It is only because Milwaukee couldn't shoot their way out of a barn today, that we were even in this game. I understand that you are trying to be positive, but this was a piss poor effort by our team. The season was a success in spite of adversity, but this game was played at about 50% effort.
Quote from: WSU85 on March 04, 2017, 09:30:32 PM
Why do you say the Horizon League has reached its lowest point? Just because Valpo (the new Butler) lost? Maybe the rest of the league is as competitive as Valpo and Oakland. That is good for the league.
The league has reached its lowest point because only a few teams do a damn thing in the non-conference. The teams that don't do anything worthy proceed to destroy everyone's RPI throughout the season(even in loses), and then get rewarded with neutral court opportunities to spring upsets to further destroy teams that actually went out and did something prior to January. So, if you are so equal, go get yourself a sub-100 rpi entering HL play once in a while, otherwise shut the hell up and go away!
Quote from: valpotx on March 04, 2017, 09:59:46 PMUnfortunately, while Milwaukee DID play good defense, our defense was not very good. We gave up a lot of open looks. It is only because Milwaukee couldn't shoot their way out of a barn today, that we were even in this game. I understand that you are trying to be positive, but this was a piss poor effort by our team. The season was a success in spite of adversity, but this game was played at about 50% effort.
I don't know what game you where watching. Yes we couldn't throw the ball in the ocean, but the defensive effort and intensity was there all night.
I don't really know what to say tonight... I was avoiding the forums since the beginning of this game. I love Valpo Basketball (as we all do) but it would be an understatement to say I was disappointed with the effort tonight. We just didn't show up tonight and 8-10 times we should beat this MKE team.
I don't blame the coaches. They can't suit up to play for them. I want to stress MKE played great defense and came up with a few big 3's in this game, but this Valpo team has more talent then that even without Alec. Judging from the effort from a few players tonight their counterpart wanted it more tonight.
I was shocked how much Lexus was passing up shots tonight. Not just him but many guys. They were passing up open shots and drained the play clock down to the last few seconds and settled for bad shots. Missed some shots (which is expected but not the amount of shots).
Some people may disagree but I can't blame the Coaches for this loss. THIS IS ON THE PLAYERS. This is going to be a game where players say to themselves, "What could I have done differently" for a while. Just feel bad for seniors. Not the way you want to go out.
Quote from: FWalum on March 04, 2017, 10:08:15 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 04, 2017, 09:59:46 PMUnfortunately, while Milwaukee DID play good defense, our defense was not very good. We gave up a lot of open looks. It is only because Milwaukee couldn't shoot their way out of a barn today, that we were even in this game. I understand that you are trying to be positive, but this was a piss poor effort by our team. The season was a success in spite of adversity, but this game was played at about 50% effort.
I don't know what game you where watching. Yes we couldn't throw the ball in the ocean, but the defensive effort and intensity was there all night.
I watched the game where everyone just wanted to pass the ball around the perimeter. There weren't any drives to the basket. Yes, they were in a zone, but you can always drive to draw them to you, which opens up better shots. That is how people shoot us out of a zone, so why couldn't we have even attempted to do such a thing? We had a few drives at the end, but for the bulk of the game, we had late shot clock looks that were rushed. On defense, we did have some good stands, but we also let them get to the basket pretty easily, and to kick it out for various open 3 point shots. We were extremely lucky that they missed several shots within 5 feet of the basket, as well as bricking many 3 pointers. The effort was about 50%, and I am not angry as I type this up. This game would be a good example to show my sons in how not to play when your shots aren't falling. We didn't have any of the hustle points that you need, when your shot is not working. We shot 7 of 15 from the FT line. The only positive from this game was that we ended up +11 in rebounds, but we didn't do anything with those second chances...
First, last, and only post this season. Sorry it has to be such a downer.
A pathetic end to the most disappointing season I can remember. Great start. Pitiful end. No leadership. No mental toughness. The Joe is so much in the team's heads that they would be lucky to hit the Detroit River with a shot. When your most consistent player is a freshman walk on your program is in trouble.
So which alphabet tournament will we go to (not the NIT I expect) to give our underclassmen a chance to play in another meaningless game. Will Shane even bother to play in it? He still has some chance to play overseas so why take a chance on being hurt right? Who cares?
Smits and Sorolla should shoot 10,000 free throws before next season. If they had shot just 50% we would have won this cluster#%?! of a game. At least then I could have postponed my disappointment for a couple of days
Hope the league is happy with all the empty seats shown on tv. An NKU v Green Bay final could have an attendance of less than 1000 unless they drag people in off the street. Hey I've got no problem with giving street people a warm place to be for a few hours in March. The league should give them a voucher for hot dog and a coke too.
Best wishes to Alec. In hindsight I wish now he and had transferred to Vanderbilt or some other potential tournament team. Maybe fewer minutes would have helped him avoid the leg problem and I could have had a connection to somebody playing in the big dance. Now I probably won't even watch a game. Hope it doesn't affect his chances in the NBA draft.
Bye
Unfortunate end to the regular season.
Hoping they play in a postseason tourney...any post season tourney.
QuoteGuess what? The only pathetic thing in my sight right now is our fandom. Its so discouraging seeing everyone dump on the team.
Not disappointed in the regular season, but its fair game to "dump" on the teams effort tonight.
The guys didn't show up tonight. The guys looked very passive and nobody looked like they wanted to become an aggressor other then Kiser and maybe Smits in very early going of the game.
Coaches can't play the game for them. There are going to be nights where shots are not falling but they should NEVER be nights like this. MKE played good D but its not like they we playing NBA caliber D.
12 points in the 1st half. I repeat 12 points!! That is unacceptable on any level. It is not without of bounds to criticize this effort. And someones fandom should not be questioned for pointing out the obvious.
The guys had a moderately successful regular season but nobody plays to win regular season titles and that should not become the bar of expectation for this fan base.
Our fatal flaws were exposed. No Jubril, no Alec equals almost no inside game and a reduced rebound margin. So clog the driving lanes and place modest pressure on the 3 legitimate 3 point shooters we have left on the floor and our offense sputters to a halt. Actually our best driver is also our best outside shooter (Shane) so that only left 2 fair outside shooters on the perimeter for the drive and dish. That isn't a formula for success. Derrik and Jay needed great tournament performances for us to have any chance for a championship. Didn't happen. Just too many pieces of the puzzle gone.
Alec gone! Best rebounder, best 3 point shooter, best inside scoring threat. Thats a lot of holes to fill.
We will want to root for the #1 seeds to win their tournaments this season. We are still predicted to be a 7 seed in the NIT, which would be a nice consolation for this season and how it ended. I don't think it worthwhile to play in the CBI or CIT.
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
Quote from: valpotx on March 05, 2017, 12:43:00 AMWe will want to root for the #1 seeds to win their tournaments this season. We are still predicted to be a 7 seed in the NIT, which would be a nice consolation for this season and how it ended. I don't think it worthwhile to play in the CBI or CIT.
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
Ordinarily I would agree. BUT - we are down to one forward with a reliable 3 point shot. ONE! How can we compete?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIWO3dxVnO8
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 04, 2017, 06:43:41 PMPrior to that YSU had the home town fans silent.
Not in my ear they certainly weren't silent. So much of what you hear on television/ESPN3 broadcast is decided upon by where the TV production people put the microphones.
Bad stuff happens in life. This is not the end of the world. One thing about watching sports is that there are no guarantees. Hey, at least this is not the 80's where a 20 win season would have students dancing in the cold!
The more games you play, the better. More playing time implies more player evaluation, and this is imperative for next year.
What in the world did Matt mean/say about not even being able to have any time in the place prior to pre-game warmups? He said the last time we had a chance to put up any shots was last year!!! Paul asked whether or not it was a Valpo scheduling issue or a Horizon League issue with no real answer provided. If everyone faced the same problem then fine, it was an even playing field. If for some reason it was unique to us, then we either screwed ourselves or the League had it out for us.
I heard that too! Matt seemed pretty irritated about that (or maybe just from the night in general).
Does the Horizon rethink the double-bye? Having no 1-2 seeds in the semis is really bad. That means no RPI boost in remaining games, an uninteresting finals matchup, and of course, a bad seed in the NCAA tournament.
I thought the elimination of the double byes was asking for trouble. It's harder to win 3 games than two, and you're just shifting the sitting duck problem a round earlier.
It's just another round of "I told you so."
But I guess the Horizon has shifted its focus on trying to make money in one weekend vs the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 05, 2017, 01:32:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIWO3dxVnO8
4:18 into the video:
Matt comment:
"It's tough when you come in and don't take any shots in the arena."
Oren follow-up question:
"Coach, I don't know if this is the time to bring this up, but the same kind of thing happened last year not getting into the arena and everything. What led to that? Was it a Valpo scheduling thing? A Horizon League scheduling thing? What was it?
Matt reply:
"I don't know. I just know it's difficult."
So, for 2 consecutive years we take the floor against teams that played the day before, and our players haven't so much bounced a ball or taken a shot until pregame warmups. And we lose both games. By the way, 40% of our minutes were played by freshmen in their first college tournament game in an arena they've never been to before.
Two years ago when Valpo hosted, a comprehensive practice schedule published by the league was posted on every door, showing when each team had exclusive use of the floor on what day. I cannot image that has changed. Before our tournament game against Maryland we had exclusive use of the arena.
IMO there's about a 95% chance this is another Valpo Athletic Department F-up. I know there are people who post anonymously on this board who work in the Athletic Department. If you don't have the gumption to defend your employer and refute this notion, my suspicion will become 100%.
If this is a "Valpo thing," someone's head needs to roll. But, of course it won't because that would be admitting guilt and accepting responsibility,
and if we learned anything from the Jubril situation, never ever do that.
I think I speak for all Valpo Fans when I say go Phoenix today!
We need Green Bay to run the table and shock the world beating a two seed and get this conference back on the map!
It's clear Valpo and Oakland had no interest in doing that this year so why not them? ;D
I know the team was practicing on Detroit-Mercy's court on, I beleive, Friday. I wonder if it's due to having to play four games on Friday so there's little time to schedule in others? Unless the team goes up 2-3 days earlier than they need too which then turns into extra cost.
Quote from: brycepeters on March 05, 2017, 09:24:23 AM
I think I speak for all Valpo Fans when I say go Phoenix today!
We need Green Bay to run the table and shock the world beating a two seed and get this conference back on the map!
It's clear Valpo and Oakland had no interest in doing that this year so why not them? ;D
GB will never get this conference back on the map, unless you are talking about the Women's side...
I'm pulling for a Charles Cooper led Green Bay team....
The whole not getting in the gym is so bizarre...add in the fact that the same thing occurred last year. Makes absolutely no sense.
If the teams were not allowed any time for practice in the arena due to Horizon League scheduling, especially after the problems encountered by top seeds in last year's tournament, then that would just add another negative element to the debacle that is Motor City Madness. As mentioned elsewhere, when the tournament was held at campus sites, all teams were scheduled time to practice on the court and get comfortable with shooting in that environment.
I know Oakland practiced on at JLA. Pictures were posted on twitter. Kampe was laughing it up with LeCrone. :-[
The first time they stepped on the floor was for shoot around. MKE and Valpo were practicing at Detroit-Mercy's arena.
Here is a pic the MKE team twitter tweeted out. Valpo posted the same thing but with our guys earlier yesterday but I can't find the tweet anymore.
https://twitter.com/MKE_MBB/status/838116519334793216
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 05, 2017, 11:10:36 AM
I know Oakland practiced on at JLA. Pictures were posted on twitter. Kampe was laughing it up with LeCrone. :-[
Then there needs to be a reason given as to why Valpo did not have a practice in the arena. This is a question that should be answered.
The combination of men's and women's games at the same location in the same weekend no doubt must have been a factor in the alleged absence of shoot-around time on that floor - this year. Last year, I'm pretty confident it was just the double bye thing that bit us in the a$$. It's unfortunate that the HL's slow learning curve over two years of "neutral court" MCM experimentation seems to have sacrificed the #1 and #2 seeds in each of the last two years.
Regarding a VU scheduling problem that might have been the cause of the lack of a shoot-around, I cannot believe for one minute that if a specific shoot-around time slot was offered to VU by the HL tournament committee, that we would have not taken advantage of it. I don't know where the team was housed but I assume somewhere close to the arena? So even if a bus does not show up on time a short walk to JLA might have solved that. I really hope the truth of this matter is uncovered soon.
BTW, USAToday's Bracketology, as of this morning, has NKU at a #15 in the East playing Florida State.
You shouldn't need a practice in that arena to beat a team as pathetic as uwm peters or no peters
7-15 fts is why they lost
Quit making excuses
QuoteYou shouldn't need a practice in that arena to beat a team as pathetic as uwm peters or no peters
7-15 fts is why they lost
Quit making excuses
Nobody is saying Valpo doesn't own the loss. Valpo absolutely did. Quit your troll.
You don't think practicing on the court doesn't help? Damn you must have never played or coached a day in your life.
-shooting back drop (particular in a very spread-out wide arena at the Joe affects depth perception)
-Learning where there are dead spots on the court, etc.
Horizon League HQ leadership strikes again...
Nobody is blaming the loss on this but it could have played a factor and you are naive to deny Valpo & MKE should have at least been able to hold a practice in the Joe once before they play the game.
In all fairness, it simply does not matter where you shoot around, when you shoot around, what court you play on, what state the tournament is held in, etc... At the end of the day, you have to beat the team across the court from you. That is why we have conference tournaments. Want something more embarrassing than "not sending your best team to the dance?" Try having everyone but the top two teams phone it in for the last 2 months of the season because there is no conference tournament. I'm sorry, but win your games. I would rather have the "hottest team peaking at the right time" going to the dance instead of the team who beat a team receiving votes in the AP poll in November. Whether it be Youngstown, NKU, Green Bay, whomever, I would rather have them dance than a team that folds to a clearly inferior team. Trust me, the conference is not plotting against you, Oakland or any other team. It is not LeCrone's fault that the Grizzlies or Crusaders are not dancing, it is the teams' faults.
Quote from: yayphoenixyay on March 05, 2017, 12:03:57 PM
In all fairness, it simply does not matter where you shoot around, when you shoot around, what court you play on, what state the tournament is held in, etc... At the end of the day, you have to beat the team across the court from you. That is why we have conference tournaments. Want something more embarrassing than "not sending your best team to the dance?" Try having everyone but the top two teams phone it in for the last 2 months of the season because there is no conference tournament. I'm sorry, but win your games. I would rather have the "hottest team peaking at the right time" going to the dance instead of the team who beat a team receiving votes in the AP poll in November. Whether it be Youngstown, NKU, Green Bay, whomever, I would rather have them dance than a team that folds to a clearly inferior team. Trust me, the conference is not plotting against you, Oakland or any other team. It is not LeCrone's fault that the Grizzlies or Crusaders are not dancing, it is the teams' faults.
There is no conspiracy, agreed.
We beat ourselves last night, agreed.
The temperature of an inferior team does not greatness make. Having talent is a prerequisite to winning in March. I don't think the bottom half of our league could make a run anywhere but their underpants. We will probably suck again at some point, but for now I don't believe any team left CAN win in mid March. You all will draw a 1 or 2 seed, and GOOD LUCK SIR.
I can't help but think back to the 1990s when the Mid-Con tourney was played in the Quad Cities and then later in Fort Wayne.
Those Valpo teams seeded No. 1 always seemed to be able to take care of business, putting a first-round beating on teams like Chicago State.
Why hasn't that been the case the last couple years?
Quote from: yayphoenixyay on March 05, 2017, 12:03:57 PMI'm sorry, but win your games. I would rather have the "hottest team peaking at the right time" going to the dance instead of the team who beat a team receiving votes in the AP poll in November. Whether it be Youngstown, NKU, Green Bay, whomever,
I pretty much agree and had Adekoya been cleared to play early February, with a healthy Alec that peaking team would have been Valpo.
The "hottest team peaking at the right time" would in fact be the Oakland Grizzlies, who after a 5-4 1st half went 9-0 in the 2nd. If the tournament were held in Oakland, as it should have been, this never would have happened.
A year ago the "hottest team peaking at the right time" would in fact be the Valpo Crusaders. If the tournament were held in Valpo, as it should have been, Green Bay and it's conference-humiliating NCAA blow-out loss would never have happened.
So, to be clear, GB was not the "hottest team peaking at the right time" last year. GB is not the hottest team peaking at the right time this year. The HL did not be send its best team to the NCAA tournament last year. The HL will not be sending its best team this year. That is the very disaster that occurred 15 years ago at the hands of a terrible GB team upsetting a far superior Butler team that caused the league to go to the double bye formula to begin with. Interesting how history repeats itself when people forget the lessons of the past.
Playing on your home court doesn't mean you won't lose to an inferior team.
Green Bay did to uwm in 2014. Hell butler did back in the day to Cleveland st
Oakland did basically play a home game yesterday and still lost
The only way you are going to protect your top seeds is by either eliminating the conference tourney all together which will never happen or by limiting it to the top six or top four making it and not allowing everyone in.
Valpo almost lost at home to Green Bay in 2015 and should have if not for an epic second half collapse by the Phoenix
Quote from: yayphoenixyay on March 05, 2017, 12:03:57 PM
In all fairness, it simply does not matter where you shoot around, when you shoot around, what court you play on, what state the tournament is held in, etc... At the end of the day, you have to beat the team across the court from you. That is why we have conference tournaments. Want something more embarrassing than "not sending your best team to the dance?" Try having everyone but the top two teams phone it in for the last 2 months of the season because there is no conference tournament. I'm sorry, but win your games. I would rather have the "hottest team peaking at the right time" going to the dance instead of the team who beat a team receiving votes in the AP poll in November. Whether it be Youngstown, NKU, Green Bay, whomever, I would rather have them dance than a team that folds to a clearly inferior team. Trust me, the conference is not plotting against you, Oakland or any other team. It is not LeCrone's fault that the Grizzlies or Crusaders are not dancing, it is the teams' faults.
100% - 16 seed vs 1 seed.
93.8% - 15 seed vs 2 seed.
83.6% - 14 seed vs 3 seed.
80.3% - 13 seed vs 4 seed.
66.9% - 12 seed vs 5 seed.
Sending the hottest team at the right time is irrelevant to the NCAA tournament. These guys have over a week off in-between their hot streak and the next game. Sending a 15 seed that was on a hot streak from a week and a half ago is irrelevant when they're playing Kentucky in Louisville or something like that.
The whole reason for protecting top teams is to give them more winable games in the tournament. West Virginia, Cincinnati, and SMU are far more winable than Kentucky, Oregon, and Louisville. Whether that's a team that was a little hot a week ago probably doesn't make a difference.
"Win your games" is cute and all, but the league may have flushed millions down the drain by ensuring another 15 seed in the tournament.
Even when the top seeds lost in the old format, it would at least help the bottom team by adding a road win vs a top 100 team to their resume.
Quote from: brycepeters on March 05, 2017, 01:05:23 PMValpo almost lost at home to Green Bay in 2015 and should have if not for an epic second half collapse by the Phoenix
There seems to be a link between good defenses and second half collapses. Last March a bubble St Marys team scored 12 second half points at the ARC in a similar situation. ::)
Wait! We played that GB game shorthanded as well. Tevonne tried to play but couldn't, EVN was banged up and wasn't D. Walker or somebody among the walking ill or wounded? Depth is a great thing. VU started this year with only 10 eligible scholarship players then finished with 8 and a walk on. So, no we would not have been able to win it at the ARC either. Are you happy now?
As to home court advantage for Oakland at the Blacktop, it could have been enormous! Still not a guarantee but BBBBBIG.
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 05, 2017, 12:20:17 PM
I can't help but think back to the 1990s when the Mid-Con tourney was played in the Quad Cities and then later in Fort Wayne.
Those Valpo teams seeded No. 1 always seemed to be able to take care of business, putting a first-round beating on teams like Chicago State.
Why hasn't that been the case the last couple years?
This may be the case around all of college basketball right now. Last year, only a few 1 seeds won their conference tournaments. Belmont just lost in the semis, and they ROLLED through the league, only losing one game.
Also, Milwaukee and YSU aren't Chicago State bad. Milwaukee should have beat Oakland and played each team close at some point during the year.
Is a Green Bay fan honestly talking about "hottest team peaking"? I'm sorry. What was the score of your NCAA game last year and how was that good for the conference?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 05, 2017, 02:07:39 PM
Is a Green Bay fan honestly talking about "hottest team peaking"? I'm sorry. What was the score of your NCAA game last year and how was that good for the conference?
Or how was UWM winning 4 years ago good for the conference instead of UWGB?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 05, 2017, 02:07:39 PM
Is a Green Bay fan honestly talking about "hottest team peaking"? I'm sorry. What was the score of your NCAA game last year and how was that good for the conference?
There's something fulfilling watching Wisc tear into Wisc
I always find it hilarious when a fan from another team claims that it is good when a 3-6 seed gets hot and wins 3-4 games in a row in the conference tournament. It DOES NOT mean that you are the best team. The best team is determined during the regular season over an 18 game schedule, regardless of what happens in a short period of time in one weekend. Would GB have won the tournament without Fouse and Cooper last season? That is the circumstance that we had this season without Peters and Adekoya. 'Just win the games' is much harder when a GB player gets away with a foul on your star player, which eventually knocks him out over the last 3 games ;).
Say what you will, but if you can't win your conference tourney, you shouldn't be playing in the field of 64. That is the nature of mid-major college basketball. The Phoenix are down at the half right now. If they don't beat UIC, then they simply don't deserve to keep playing and that will be that.
How good is it for the conference to just have the regular season champ in the dance every year? Has the Ivy made a big splash outside of Harvard (I believe) winning a game a few years ago?
I fail to see the validity of the argument that the neutral court decided the Oakland and Valpo games. Oakland essentially played a home game and still lost. Furthermore, if you can't beat Youngstown or Milwaukee on a neutral court, how can you claim that you'd have a good chance against Cincy or another 4 or 3 seed on a neutral court? You can bicker about all the nuances surrounding the game (arena, format, etc...) but the fact of the matter is if you get outplayed, you lose, no matter where or when you play.
I also never said that we were necessarily sending our best team on paper to the tourney, I carefully made the "hottest" team distinction. You can't look anyone in the eye and tell me that the team that lost to UWM last night could've made waves in the dance. Why? Because they were horribly out of sync and couldn't function without their centerpiece. I'm not trying to be hostile, but the fact of the matter is, regardless of how your whole season played out up until about two weeks ago, as of right now, Valpo was not the best, nor the hottest team.
Quote from: yayphoenixyay on March 05, 2017, 05:01:16 PM
Say what you will, but if you can't win your conference tourney, you shouldn't be playing in the field of 64. That is the nature of mid-major college basketball. The Phoenix are down at the half right now. If they don't beat UIC, then they simply don't deserve to keep playing and that will be that.
How good is it for the conference to just have the regular season champ in the dance every year? Has the Ivy made a big splash outside of Harvard (I believe) winning a game a few years ago?
I fail to see the validity of the argument that the neutral court decided the Oakland and Valpo games. Oakland essentially played a home game and still lost. Furthermore, if you can't beat Youngstown or Milwaukee on a neutral court, how can you claim that you'd have a good chance against Cincy or another 4 or 3 seed on a neutral court? You can bicker about all the nuances surrounding the game (arena, format, etc...) but the fact of the matter is if you get outplayed, you lose, no matter where or when you play.
I take it you didn't watch the FGCU game today? Or the UWGB Valpo game 4 years ago? In both cases, the home team was down at half and the crowd got them back into the game. The road team could never get momentum back.
There's a statistical advantage to playing at home. This is well stated, to the point where RPI rewards road victories. I don't think many people are trying to get rid of the conference tournament all together, rather, many mid major fans of decent-RPI teams (decent seeds in the NCAA tournament) like the idea of having a little bit of an advantage in their conference tournament.
You throw around terms like "deserve" - well that's fun and all, but if the House sends a 15 seed, they're certainly not making any money from a Sweet 16 run because 15 seeds RARELY win their first round games.
QuoteMatt comment:
"It's tough when you come in and don't take any shots in the arena."
Oren follow-up question:
"Coach, I don't know if this is the time to bring this up, but the same kind of thing happened last year not getting into the arena and everything. What led to that? Was it a Valpo scheduling thing? A Horizon League scheduling thing? What was it?
Matt reply:
"I don't know. I just know it's difficult."
So, for 2 consecutive years we take the floor against teams that played the day before, and our players haven't so much bounced a ball or taken a shot until pregame warmups. And we lose both games. By the way, 40% of our minutes were played by freshmen in their first college tournament game in an arena they've never been to before.
Two years ago when Valpo hosted, a comprehensive practice schedule published by the league was posted on every door, showing when each team had exclusive use of the floor on what day. I cannot image that has changed. Before our tournament game against Maryland we had exclusive use of the arena.
IMO there's about a 95% chance this is another Valpo Athletic Department F-up. I know there are people who post anonymously on this board who work in the Athletic Department. If you don't have the gumption to defend your employer and refute this notion, my suspicion will become 100%.
If this is a "Valpo thing," someone's head needs to roll. But, of course it won't because that would be admitting guilt and accepting responsibility,
and if we learned anything from the Jubril situation, never ever do that.
Did anyone hear Todd's interview with Luke Gore after the game? Luke talked quite a bit about not getting to practice at the arena, but I missed the part why he said it was an issue. I did hear him say it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.
Quote from: yayphoenixyay on March 05, 2017, 05:04:30 PM
I also never said that we were necessarily sending our best team on paper to the tourney, I carefully made the "hottest" team distinction. You can't look anyone in the eye and tell me that the team that lost to UWM last night could've made waves in the dance. Why? Because they were horribly out of sync and couldn't function without their centerpiece. I'm not trying to be hostile, but the fact of the matter is, regardless of how your whole season played out up until about two weeks ago, as of right now, Valpo was not the best, nor the hottest team.
It's almost as if sometimes teams have good games, while other times, teams have bad games. Perhaps a single game isn't indicative of the team's talent level and performance over the next few games?
I don't think any of us are arguing that Valpo would have won a tournament game this year. Typically the 2 seed isn't down an all American, but I'd still probably take Valpo being closer to Cincinnati than NKU to Kentucky in the tournament.
I'm still not sure how anyone can reason that UWGB winning the league last year was good for the league when they got drilled by A&M. Valpo would have had a much more winable game.
Quote from: FWalum on March 05, 2017, 05:14:36 PM
QuoteMatt comment:
"It's tough when you come in and don't take any shots in the arena."
Oren follow-up question:
"Coach, I don't know if this is the time to bring this up, but the same kind of thing happened last year not getting into the arena and everything. What led to that? Was it a Valpo scheduling thing? A Horizon League scheduling thing? What was it?
Matt reply:
"I don't know. I just know it's difficult."
So, for 2 consecutive years we take the floor against teams that played the day before, and our players haven't so much bounced a ball or taken a shot until pregame warmups. And we lose both games. By the way, 40% of our minutes were played by freshmen in their first college tournament game in an arena they've never been to before.
Two years ago when Valpo hosted, a comprehensive practice schedule published by the league was posted on every door, showing when each team had exclusive use of the floor on what day. I cannot image that has changed. Before our tournament game against Maryland we had exclusive use of the arena.
IMO there's about a 95% chance this is another Valpo Athletic Department F-up. I know there are people who post anonymously on this board who work in the Athletic Department. If you don't have the gumption to defend your employer and refute this notion, my suspicion will become 100%.
If this is a "Valpo thing," someone's head needs to roll. But, of course it won't because that would be admitting guilt and accepting responsibility,
and if we learned anything from the Jubril situation, never ever do that.
Did anyone hear Todd's interview with Luke Gore after the game? Luke talked quite a bit about not getting to practice at the arena, but I missed the part why he said it was an issue. I did hear him say it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.
An absolute crime that Valpo didn't get to practice at JLA before the game. Lottich and Gore have good reason to be upset. What a farce!
Valpo was the best team in the Horizon and the only one with a history of winning games in the NCAA tournament. Making it more difficult for them to win the HL tournament is just stupid on behalf of LeCrone and the Horizon.
Quote from: FWalum on March 05, 2017, 05:14:36 PM
QuoteMatt comment:
"It's tough when you come in and don't take any shots in the arena."
Oren follow-up question:
"Coach, I don't know if this is the time to bring this up, but the same kind of thing happened last year not getting into the arena and everything. What led to that? Was it a Valpo scheduling thing? A Horizon League scheduling thing? What was it?
Matt reply:
"I don't know. I just know it's difficult."
So, for 2 consecutive years we take the floor against teams that played the day before, and our players haven't so much bounced a ball or taken a shot until pregame warmups. And we lose both games. By the way, 40% of our minutes were played by freshmen in their first college tournament game in an arena they've never been to before.
Two years ago when Valpo hosted, a comprehensive practice schedule published by the league was posted on every door, showing when each team had exclusive use of the floor on what day. I cannot image that has changed. Before our tournament game against Maryland we had exclusive use of the arena.
IMO there's about a 95% chance this is another Valpo Athletic Department F-up. I know there are people who post anonymously on this board who work in the Athletic Department. If you don't have the gumption to defend your employer and refute this notion, my suspicion will become 100%.
If this is a "Valpo thing," someone's head needs to roll. But, of course it won't because that would be admitting guilt and accepting responsibility,
and if we learned anything from the Jubril situation, never ever do that.
Did anyone hear Todd's interview with Luke Gore after the game? Luke talked quite a bit about not getting to practice at the arena, but I missed the part why he said it was an issue. I did hear him say it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.
Well Todd, I know you visit the board regularly. Why didn't we get to practice at JLA?
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838522666613092355
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838522754349613056
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838522909417160705
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838523035422441473
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838523203328872456
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838523606648905733
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838523858592346113
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838524090772295681
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838524325825249280
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838524595619627008
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838524891271991296
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838525206478077952
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838525812760539136
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838526313547853824
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838526640602943489
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838526935978364928
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/838527109047943168
Case closed. Matt's comment was in retrospect to the program's own decision. Too bad.
30 minutes to acclimate to the arena, huh? I think it comes back to combining the two tournaments on one weekend. And I think that tactic was $$$ driven to try to increase attendance figures.
Was the program decision at the AD level? If so, he needs to look at himself and why he made that call, given what happened last season with the same circumstance, and a better team. If it was Lottich's decision, than he has no one to blame but himself. Either way, they should have taken the time, regardless of having to sit around all Friday after the shoot-around. There is a huge difference in playing at the compact ARC, versus playing in a cavernous JLA without any fans in attendance.
In regards to the GB fan's assertion that the 'deserving teams' win the conference tournament, that is complete BS. In your view, you can go to 18-0, with the second place team at 12-6, and whoever wins the NCAA bid is the 'deserving' team, since they got hot over 3-4 games. I am not saying that we should award the NCAA bid to the regular season champion, but don't say that the 'deserving' teams are the ones who lock up that bid. The only reason we have these conference tournaments is because it is so engrained in American culture to have postseasons in every sport. Giving the 5-10 seeds a chance at an NCAA bid is what makes March such a 'magical' time, but in reality, they are not deserving. I could make an argument for only having the top 4 teams playing in a tournament to get the NCAA bid. That would allow the truly deserving teams to come away with something from the 18 game body of work, versus 3-4 games for some crappy team like Milwaukee to get lucky over 1 weekend.
Quote from: valpotx on March 05, 2017, 06:35:14 PM
Was the program decision at the AD level? If so, he needs to look at himself and why he made that call, given what happened last season with the same circumstance, and a better team. If it was Lottich's decision, than he has no one to blame but himself. Either way, they should have taken the time, regardless of having to sit around all Friday after the shoot-around. There is a huge difference in playing at the compact ARC, versus playing in a cavernous JLA without any fans in attendance.
In regards to the GB fan's assertion that the 'deserving teams' win the conference tournament, that is complete BS. In your view, you can go to 18-0, with the second place team at 12-6, and whoever wins the NCAA bid is the 'deserving' team, since they got hot over 3-4 games. I am not saying that we should award the NCAA bid to the regular season champion, but don't say that the 'deserving' teams are the ones who lock up that bid. The only reason we have these conference tournaments is because it is so engrained in American culture to have postseasons in every sport. Giving the 5-10 seeds a chance at an NCAA bid is what makes March such a 'magical' time, but in reality, they are not deserving. I could make an argument for only having the top 4 teams playing in a tournament to get the NCAA bid. That would allow the truly deserving teams to come away with something from the 18 game body of work, versus 3-4 games for some crappy team like Milwaukee to get lucky over 1 weekend.
Just a personal opinion, shoot around or not, we weren't making our mark on this tournament.
That being said, during NCAA tournament are we given ample shoot around time? Is this just a JLA thing?
I'm a bit surprised at all the complaining about the lack of shoot around time. I know I'll hear the team needed to get acclimated to the court, back drop, etc., but I'm not buying it one bit. I'm pretty sure the court was still the same length and the rims were still 10 feet with a hoop and ball that were still the same dimensions. I have to call it like I see it and that was a piss poor effort and we got it handed to us. The tourney was our's for the taking with Oakland losing and we blew it. It's a as simple as that. 12 points in the first half??? You gotta be kidding me. I'd be willing to bet me and 4 other random people on this board could go play a half and score more than 12 points.
Backdrops can affect shooting. It would have been wise for Valpo...all teams....to take what was available to them to be on the court prior to the game.
In the NCAA tourney, the teams get at least 1 hour if not 2 in the arena the day before the tourney starts at about the time of your games. Not at 9 am a day and a half before you play. teams run a full set of drills, etc. It is open to public and I've watched the workouts on a number of occasions. If you haven't played a lot of Basketball, then you won't understand the differences in shooting in a gym with walls close by, an arena or a dome. It's a clear difference. It's about depth perception and eye calculations on distance. Rims are different too. The JLA rims looked tight compared to the ARC. Tevonn's last 3s rattled around and out. No excuse for the game and our failure to speed the game up with pressure or push the Attack in the lane or all the missed lay ups or the tightness everyone played with. But there are differences in shooting backgrounds and feeling comfortable.
Well, I'm going to be anti-Title IX here and say the reason for the lack of shoot-around time is because of the addition of the women's tournament. Too many games, not enough court time.
Did the Valpo men not want their kids to miss classes on the Thursday afternoon/Friday morning before Spring Break?
That's not ant-TitleIX IMO, it's concern over poor overall planning and logistics. Even just removing the first round for both men and women and playing those at campus sites would ease the pressure somewhat. Insisting that 2 qtr-final games from both the men's side and the women's side be played on the same days, two days in a row is an obvious attendance grab tactic. The HL seems to want to come up with a magic formula that has some uniqueness to it. Why? Why not just stick with the MVC Arch Madness template?
The entire MVC men's tournament was completed in 4 consecutive days.
THURSDAY March 2 - 2 1st round games:
#8 Evansville v. #9 Indiana State - EU won
#7 Bradley v. $10 Drake - Bradley won
FRIDAY March 3 - 4 quarter final games
#1 Illinois St v. #8 E'ville - Illinois State won
#4 SIU v. #5 Loyola - SIU won
#2 Wichita State v #7 Bradley - WSU won
33 UNI v. #6 Missouri State - MSU won (only upset of the quarters)
SATURDAY March 4 - 2 Semi-finals
#1 ISU v. #4 SIU - ISU won
#2 WSU v. MSU - WSU won
SUNDAY March 5 1 championship game.
#1 ISU v. #2 WSU -- WSU won.
Is that so hard to do? A 1st round play-in with no "rest days" at all throughout the entire tournament. Each step in the tournament played on the same day. And only TWO upsets in 9 games - the last being the #2 seed beat #1 (and that is the way it is supposed to be, isn't it?). Both #1 and #2 were 17-1 going in with WSU having an overall record of 30-4, Illinois state was 28-5. Seeding was determined by a tie-breaker apparently despite WSU crushing pretty much all of their mid-major opponents and beating LSU and barely losing to Michigan State.
The women will have their own neutral site tournament in the Quad Cities Wireless Center this coming weekend. 4 consecutive days. Exact same format.
Are you kidding me???? We didn't take any shoot-around time!! Who is in charge? That decision is a disgrace to the players, coaches, the University, and it's fans. And this is how we spend(or do not spend) our Crusader Fund/Men's basketball program donation? Disgusting! Period!!!
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 06, 2017, 08:34:22 AM
Well, I'm going to be anti-Title IX here and say the reason for the lack of shoot-around time is because of the addition of the women's tournament. Too many games, not enough court time.
Did the Valpo men not want their kids to miss classes on the Thursday afternoon/Friday morning before Spring Break?
I hope it was for academic reasons and not just to save a few dollars. Paul Oren did a great job of gathering information on this issue ... hope he keeps digging and finds out who made this decision and why?
Given that coach Lottich and coach Gore both brought it up as an excuse, I really doubt it was the coaches' decision.
Valpo reportedly passing on their shootaround time at JLA is absolutely inexcusable. Hard to talk about commitment to your program or to your fans when you make penny-wise, pound-foolish decisions like that. It's a *win or go home* situation. Put your team in the best position to win. Period. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SHOT MISERABLY IN THE SAME BUILDING LAST YEAR. Sheesh.
The fact that teams only get a brief 30-minute window 36 hours before the game to get acclimated to the tourney site is another issue altogether, and one that the HL needs to rectify, pronto. Shootarounds should always be within 24 hours of tipoff.
You mean that even our women's team took their shoot-around time? At least they won a game. Could it be that..........nevermind.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 06, 2017, 10:25:30 AM
Are you kidding me???? We didn't take any shoot-around time!! Who is in charge? That decision is a disgrace to the players, coaches, the University, and it's fans. And this is how we spend(or do not spend) our Crusader Fund/Men's basketball program donation? Disgusting! Period!!!
This is the icing on the cake about the disastrous finish to the season. 1 of only 2 teams out of 20 that chose not to use their allotted shoot around time, followed by a 12-point shooting half and a boot in the butt by the 10 seed. We are 6-4 in our last 10 games and 2-2 since Alec was sidelined. We're starting a freshman walk-on for heaven sakes, who is a better option than our 3 scholarship freshmen who apparently hit the freshman wall a month ago. We are a shadow of our former selves - mediocre at best.
I know that Matt wants to keep playing, but I think they should put a merciful end to this season here and now, save the money they would have spent, and use it next year to pay for another night's lodging so they can practice shooting at the JLA. They may not want this season to end, but from where I'm sitting, it can't end soon enough.
Amen! wh
I'd love to see us out of the Horizon and into a conference with better leadership, but Valpo's season just ended in an embarrassing whimper, and we were far from impressive. Does a higher-ranked conference really want a team that could not muster enough energy to score more than a decent high school team..in the conference tournament of all places?
Quote from: wh on March 06, 2017, 05:56:06 PMWe are a shadow of our former selves - mediocre at best.
I know that Matt wants to keep playing, but I think they should put a merciful end to this season here and now, save the money they would have spent, and use it next year to pay for another night's lodging so they can practice shooting at the JLA. They may not want this season to end, but from where I'm sitting, it can't end soon enough.
Now down to an 8 scholarship 1 walk on rotation, Shane would have to be all in for Matt to even consider a continuation of play. That didn't look to be the case in his performance against UWM. I also doubt if we could draw 1000 fans for a CIT game at the ARC. Too many letdowns after a fantastic start. Let the kids practice, study and regroup instead.
Playing any more games falls into the category of :deadhorse:.
Quote from: Mc on March 06, 2017, 07:45:15 PM
I'd love to see us out of the Horizon and into a conference with better leadership, but Valpo's season just ended in an embarrassing whimper, and we were far from impressive. Does a higher-ranked conference really want a team that could not muster enough energy to score more than a decent high school team..in the conference tournament of all places?
It would be nice if Valpo could be in a conference where they have some say in what happens. From what I've read, Butler used to dictate policy in the Horizon, but now Valpo as the #1 team in the league has been forced to just accept whatever LeCrone wants. Definitely time to move on.
To answer your question, Valpo would definitely be in demand for a conference wanting a team with the national profile and NCAA tournament history that Valpo possesses. Very marketable right now ... the question is whether the Valpo administration is interested in making the required investments required or are just satisfied to stand pat.
Perhaps President Heckler should call or meet Butler's President Danko to get some background info on changing conferences and how that has worked for Butler. Similar endowments and reasonably close student counts, private schools. It can be done IF the President and BOD were committed to making it work. Even though MH is supportive of Athletics, sadly I don't see the will to make the investments probably needed to get there.
Quote from: vufan75 on March 06, 2017, 09:30:41 PM
Perhaps President Heckler should call or meet Butler's President Danko to get some background info on changing conferences and how that has worked for Butler. Similar endowments and reasonably close student counts, private schools. It can be done IF the President and BOD were committed to making it work. Even though MH is supportive of Athletics, sadly I don't see the will to make the investments probably needed to get there.
Step 1: relocate to a large city.
Only conference we could go to is MVC. Only way we get an invite is if WSU leaves. Not sure it would be worth it. In all honesty, there is a chance we fall into a middle of the pack HL team. Oakland will be loaded next year. NKU only getting better. UIC is young and talented. WSU is well coached. And if GB hold onto Darner, they will only continue to improve. And UWM is in the final! I've said several times and I truly believe this off-season will be the most important since the year after the sweet sixteen run. We have no margin for error to hang onto our role as top dog. So let's end this ridiculous conference talk.
Per Paul Oren's tweet, apparently now LeCrone has an idea to improve the conference.
"LeCrone repeated that league has brought in a "RPI expert" to help with data, scheduling, etc." #HLMBB
Quote from: vufan75 on March 06, 2017, 10:58:20 PM"LeCrone repeated that league has brought in a "RPI expert" to help with data, scheduling, etc." #HLMBB
This has to be a joke. :o
This would have been a great idea 15 years ago and we were still pushing for this 5 years back. BUT NOW ??? EVERYBODY has been gaming the RPI system for years and now LeCrone wants to outdo those experienced experts? Just how brain dead ignorant is this fossil? Is he genuinely a full decade plus behind the eight ball? And we pay this moron to represent us?
Quote from: justducky on March 06, 2017, 11:26:21 PM
Quote from: vufan75 on March 06, 2017, 10:58:20 PM"LeCrone repeated that league has brought in a "RPI expert" to help with data, scheduling, etc." #HLMBB
This has to be a joke. :o
This would have been a great idea 15 years ago and we were still pushing for this 5 years back. BUT NOW ??? EVERYBODY has been gaming the RPI system for years and now LeCrone wants to outdo those experienced experts? Just how brain dead ignorant is this fossil? Is he genuinely a full decade plus behind the eight ball? And we pay this moron to represent us?
Beginning next season the NCAA tournament selection will be deemphasizing RPI.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/what-experts-who-met-with-ncaa-say-about-changes-to-tourney-selection-process/amp/
Thus, it makes perfect sense that LeCrone is bringing in an RPI expert.
Quote from: wh on March 06, 2017, 11:38:36 PMBeginning next season the NCAA tournament selection will be deemphasizing RPI.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/what-experts-who-met-with-ncaa-say-about-changes-to-tourney-selection-process/amp/
Thus, it makes perfect sense that LeCrone is bringing in an RPI expert.
Are you humorously suggesting that since our totally ineffectual HL RPI strategy is now obsolete we need to devise a new path to bubble competition incompetence?
That is an awesome article.
They need to have a system that awards majors for scheduling strong mid-majors, particularly on the road. You know, like if Notre Dame came to play at Valpo again (yeah, right).
And if they are going to include margin of victory - which I think they should - maybe they should top the advantage at 20 or 25 points to prevent the 40-50 point blowouts and leaving starters in. Fortunately, there aren't a lot of UConn women-type teams in the men's game.
Quote from: vufan75 on March 06, 2017, 10:58:20 PM
Per Paul Oren's tweet, apparently now LeCrone has an idea to improve the conference.
"LeCrone repeated that league has brought in a "RPI expert" to help with data, scheduling, etc." #HLMBB
I could provide this info for free. The majority of the teams need to schedule easier. The MAC has had this strategy for years, and have multiple teams in the top 100 RPI every year, despite not being any good. The idea he needs to hire someone to tell him this is baffling.
Here's another free idea. Schedule a challenge with the swac or MEAC and play every game on the road. Pay them for it. We'd likely go 18-2 or something like that.
I heard through the rumor mill from a contact in Valpo that Shane Hammink was ill for the Milwaukee HLT game. He tried to play through it but did not have his usual energy for drives to the basket or shooting long range shots. Did anyone else hear this rumor?
Quote from: bbtds on March 11, 2017, 11:39:08 PM
I heard through the rumor mill from a contact in Valpo that Shane Hamminck was ill for the Milwaukee HLT game. He tried to play through it but did not have his usual energy for drives to the basket or shooting long range shots. Did anyone else hear this rumor?
He did look out of it. I took it as not giving a crap, but looking back, he did look sick around the eyes.
Quote from: bbtds on March 11, 2017, 11:39:08 PM
I heard through the rumor mill from a contact in Valpo that Shane Hamminck was ill for the Milwaukee HLT game. He tried to play through it but did not have his usual energy for drives to the basket or shooting long range shots. Did anyone else hear this rumor?
You mean Shane Hammink?
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 13, 2017, 04:18:03 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 11, 2017, 11:39:08 PM
I heard through the rumor mill from a contact in Valpo that Shane Hamminck was ill for the Milwaukee HLT game. He tried to play through it but did not have his usual energy for drives to the basket or shooting long range shots. Did anyone else hear this rumor?
You mean Shane Hammink?
Yep, he was from Hamtramck, Michigan. ;)
Shane being sick at tournament time would be par for the course for this season, that's for sure.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 13, 2017, 07:47:55 PM
Shane being sick at tournament time would be par for the course for this season, that's for sure.
Valparaiso looked every bit a NCAA contender when it beat BYU, Alabama and No. 21 Rhode Island earlier this season, but then the dominoes started to fall, beginning with Jubril Adekoya's suspension and culminating with injuries to Alec Peters (foot) and Shane Hammink (stomach).Paul called it an "injury" in this story for today.