We'll find out which polls and rankings are relevant for us and our colleagues this season.
At the beginning of the season it's the Mid-Major Top 25, unless we want to look back at Oakland.
This Midmajor Top 25 is from October 30. So, should be pre-season.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
Ranking. School. Record. Points. Last Week. Conference
1. Gonzaga (28) 0-0 772 - West Coast
2. Saint Mary's (3) 0-0 740 - West Coast
3. Vermont 0-0 626 - America East
4. Charleston 0-0 625 - Colonial
5. Oakland 0-0 587 - Horizon
6. Bucknell 0-0 540 - Patriot
7. Harvard 0-0 463 - Ivy League
8. BYU 0-0 453 - West Coast
9. UT Arlington 0-0 435 - Sun Belt
10. Belmont 0-0 391 - Ohio Valley
11. Northern Kentucky 0-0 371 - Horizon
12. FGCU 0-0 336 - Atlantic Sun
13. Louisiana 0-0 267 - Sun Belt
14. South Dakota State 0-0 258 - Summit
15. Mercer 0-0 223 - Southern
16. Missouri State 0-0 217 - Missouri Valley
17. Furman 0-0 210 - Southern
18. Albany 0-0 185 - America East
19. Yale 0-0 184 - Ivy League
20. Samford 0-0 183 - Southern
21. Princeton 0-0 179 - Ivy League
22. Elon 0-0 148 - Colonial
23. Western Michigan 0-0 147 - Mid-American
24. UNC Asheville 0-0 133 - Big South
25. Georgia State 0-0 117 - Sun Belt
OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: Loyola Chicago 92, Lipscomb 91, Georgia Southern 89, Northern Iowa 82, Iona 71, Stephen F. Austin 69, Monmouth 71, UNCW 65, ETSU 51, Illinois State 49, New Mexico State 46, CSU Bakersfield 39, Morgan State 33, South Dakota 31, Valparaiso 31, Idaho 30, UC Irvine 26, Akron 25, UNC Greensboro 25, Buffalo 22, San Francisco 22, North Dakota 21, Ball State 20, Grand Canyon 20, Kent State 18, Weber State 15, Murray State 13, Liberty 12, UC Davis 12, Winthrop 11, Chattanooga 11, Wofford 11, Siena 8, Fairfield 7, Hofstra 7, UIC 5, Loyola MD 5, Montana State 5, Saint Francis (Pa.) 5, Fort Wayne 4, Campbell 3, Colgate 3, Lamar 3, Coastal Carolina 2, Saint Peter's 2, Santa Clara 2, UMBC 2, Jacksonville State 1, North Carolina Central 1, Troy 1.
VOTING PANEL: Casey Alexander (Lipscomb), Roman Banks (Southern), Randy Bennett (St. Mary's), Will Brown (Albany), Jamion Christian (Mount St. Mary's), Jon Coffman (Fort Wayne), Jim Engles (Columbia), James Fox (Appalachian State), Derrin Hansen (Omaha), Steve Hawkins (Western Michigan), Jason Hooten (Sam Houston State), Brian Jones (North Dakota), James Jones (Yale), Mike Jones (Radford), Robert Jones (Norfolk State), Greg Kampe (Oakland), Danny Kaspar (Texas State), Tod Kowalczyk (Toledo), Greg Lansing (Indiana State), Jim Les (UC Davis), Dan Majerle (Grand Canyon), Bob Marlin (Louisiana), Ritchie McKay (Liberty), Rob O'Driscoll (Drexel), Jimmy Patsos (Siena), Kyle Perry (USC Upstate), G.G. Smith (Loyola), Damon Stoudamire (Pacific), Jay Spoonhour (Eastern Illinois), Willis Wilson (Texas A&M Corpus Christi), Mike Young (Wofford).
I guess that reflects the Valley as a wide open conference.
Valpo has a lot of connections on the voting panel including Greg Lansing (Indiana State), G.G. Smith (Loyola), Greg Kampe (Oakland).
In other rankings, Oakland picked up a couple of votes in the pre-season writers and coaches rankings and holds their ground in this week's AP Top 25. 2 points. Last week it was Elton Alexander and a certain Paul Klee from Denver.
Lunardi in his Nov 8 Bracketology gave Loyola a 13 (?!) seed.
Pomeroy (kenpom.com) has, after a game or two,
(84 Oakland)
94 Illinois State
95 Missouri State
100 Loyola
(115 Northern KY)
119 Bradley
124 Southern Illinois
129 Northern Iowa
132 Valparaiso
143 Evansville
(158 UIC)
165 Indiana State
(191 Wright State)
(208 Milwaukee)
223 Drake
(230 IUPUI)
(248 Green Bay)
(268 Cleveland State)
(278 Youngstown State)
(280 Detroit)
I'm definitely liking "8 teams in the top 150"!
Valpo's at
AdjO 100.0 (189th)
AdjD 97.7 (85th)
for an overall +2.27 "adjusted efficiency margin" which puts us at #132.
I expect our offensive rating will improve. We'll see.
Only a matter of time...
It also speaks to the MVC being a great move for Valpo in terms of overall competition although the top of the Horizon looks to hold it's own against the top of the MVC the middle and bottom of the MVC is so much better than their Horizon League counterparts Also interesting that the A10 AAC and MWC don't count for this poll
And, just for fun, a look at some non-confernece opponents (all the best ranked ones, I think).
Samford KenPom 135, MM25 #20.
Kent State 160, RV
UNC Wilmington 121, RV
Utah State 134
Purdue Ken Pom 15, AP 20, USA Coaches 21
Ball State Ken Pom 133, MM25 RV
Northwestern Ken Pom 29, AP 19, USA Coaches 20
Santa Clara Ken Pom 125, MM25 RV
Altogether, a really solid schedule. You wish a few more of the good non-conference games were at home. And, if we do well, I guess we'll wish we had more games in the Pomeroy 50-100 range.
But, looks really decent.
You missed UNC-Wilmington which also received votes in the Mid Major Top 25 I think they got like 65 and are entered in as UNCW
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 13, 2017, 03:28:00 PM
You missed UNC-Wilmington which also received votes in the Mid Major Top 25 I think they got like 65 and are entered in as UNCW
Thanks! I was thinking that what I had for the Savannah tournament looked wrong.
Quote from: wh on November 13, 2017, 03:13:17 PM
Only a matter of time...
Indeed. I've concluded that Valpo is the most "unknown" known quantity in mid-major college basketball. Nobody knows what to do with us. Heck, even we don't know who we are yet (and we won't know that much more after tonight, unfortunately).
EDIT: My bad wrong thread. ;D
Shouldn't that be in the game thread?
Wait for the Samford game... they have a 6-8 kid named.... Alex Peters.
Quote from: talksalot on November 13, 2017, 09:47:16 PM
Wait for the Samford game... they have a 6-8 kid named.... Alex Peters.
And a 7-ft Spaniard. Who do they think they are?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 13, 2017, 03:16:24 PMIt also speaks to the MVC being a great move for Valpo in terms of overall competition although the top of the Horizon looks to hold it's own against the top of the MVC the middle and bottom of the MVC is so much better than their Horizon League counterparts Also interesting that the A10 AAC and MWC don't count for this poll
I'm thinking the WCC with Gonzaga in particular is no longer a true mid major conference but akin to the A10 and MWC. In fact one could argue they are better than the MWC.
Quote from: Valpower on November 13, 2017, 10:34:53 PM
Quote from: talksalot on November 13, 2017, 09:47:16 PM
Wait for the Samford game... they have a 6-8 kid named.... Alex Peters.
And a 7-ft Spaniard. Who do they think they are?
The sincerest form of flattery is imitation.
Now if only they can secure two Canadians by next Tuesday. ;D
Valpo actually slightly went down in the rankings as did a few other MVC Teams. The biggest surprise early is UC-Riverside who we play on the California road trip later this season.
Update Top 25 Mid-Major College Insider Rankings:
1. Gonzaga (27) 1-0 771 1 West Coast
2. Saint Mary's (4) 1-0 748 2 West Coast
3. Vermont 0-1 675 3 America East
4. Charleston 1-0 659 4 Colonial
5. Oakland 1-0 635 5 Horizon
6. Harvard 2-0 575 7 Ivy League
7. Bucknell 0-2 536 6 Patriot
8. BYU 1-0 523 8 West Coast
9. UT Arlington 1-0 465 9 Sun Belt
10. Belmont 0-1 443 10 Ohio Valley
11. Northern Kentucky 2-0 437 11 Horizon
12. FGCU 1-0 433 12 Atlantic Sun
13. South Dakota State 2-0 346 14 Summit
14. Louisiana 0-1 292 13 Sun Belt
15. Missouri State 1-0 269 16 Missouri Valley
16. Mercer 1-1 233 15 Southern
17. Furman 1-0 205 17 Southern
18. Albany 1-0 198 18 America East
19. Georgia Southern 1-0 176 NR Sun Belt
20. Georgia State 1-0 138 25 Sun Belt
21. Western Michigan 1-0 103 23 Mid-American
22. Princeton 0-1 102 21 Ivy League
23. Elon 1-1 96 22 Colonial
24. UC Riverside 1-0 89 NR Big West
25. Indiana State 1-0 81 NR Missouri Valley
OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: Loyola Chicago 80, Monmouth 73, UNC Asheville 52, Samford 46, Yale 46, Lipscomb 45, New Mexico State 43, Weber State 35, Delaware 28, Toledo 25, Valparaiso 23, CSU Bakersfield 22, Stephen F. Austin 20, Illinois State 19, Eastern Kentucky 16, ETSU 16, Iona 16, Loyola MD 15, Murray State 15, Lehigh 13, UC Irvine 13, Ball State 12, Northern Iowa 12, Akron 11, Hofstra 11, Kent State 11, Troy 11, Evansville 10, Lamar 10, Liberty 10, Montana State 10, North Dakota 10, Grand Canyon 9, Bowling Green 8, Buffalo 7, South Dakota 7, Bradley 5, UC Davis 5, UNCW 5, High Point 3, UNC Greensboro 3, Winthrop 3, Navy 2, Southern Illinois 2, Idaho 1, Long Beach State 1, Mount Saint Mary's 1, Niagara 1, San Francisco 1, Santa Clara 1, Texas Southern 1, Towson 1, Wofford 1.
I'm higher on Oakland...Although they will be without Nunn next game due to an injury.
Surprised UWM is not the in top 25 mix.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 14, 2017, 09:34:39 AM
Valpo actually slightly went down in the rankings as did a few other MVC Teams. The biggest surprise early is UC-Riverside who we play on the California road trip later this season.
I'm quite surprised by that. Neither Cal nor Riverside were predicted to be very good. Good for me, though, as I'll be at the Valpo/Riverside game to see my team for the first time in long while. I was hoping it wouldn't be a romp as their gym is not particularly entertaining. It will be a challenge, especially as it follows four tough road challenges.
Quote from: agibson on November 13, 2017, 03:10:21 PMValpo's at
AdjO 100.0 (189th)
AdjD 97.7 (85th)
for an overall +2.27 "adjusted efficiency margin" which puts us at #132.
I expect our offensive rating will improve. We'll see.
Edwardsville's defense is not (was not?) highly rated. But, you score 94, your offensive rating is going to go up.
KenPom:
118 Valparaiso MVC 3-0 +3.62 101.3 167 97.7 80
(#118 overall, +3.62 adjusted efficiency margin, #167 offense, defense basically unchanged at #80)
Thursday morning Sagarins'... just the top 20... (just sayin')... and before the Redbirds chomped down on the Gamecocks.
CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS WIN50%
1 BIG 12 = 86.25 86.30 ( 1) 10 86.28 ( 1)
2 ATLANTIC COAST = 84.86 84.64 ( 2) 15 84.72 ( 2)
3 BIG EAST = 83.05 83.22 ( 3) 10 83.21 ( 3)
4 BIG TEN = 82.94 83.02 ( 4) 14 83.00 ( 4)
5 SOUTHEASTERN = 82.65 82.90 ( 5) 14 82.84 ( 5)
6 PAC-12 = 80.05 80.07 ( 6) 12 80.04 ( 6)
7 AMERICAN ATHLETIC = 78.13 78.21 ( 7) 12 78.14 ( 7)
8 MOUNTAIN WEST = 75.56 75.33 ( 9) 11 75.40 ( 8)
9 ATLANTIC 10 = 75.16 75.35 ( 8) 14 75.29 ( 9)
10 MISSOURI VALLEY = 74.84 74.26 ( 11) 10 74.44 ( 10)
11 WEST COAST = 73.48 74.44 ( 10) 10 73.76 ( 11)
12 MID-AMERICAN(east) = 72.56 72.46 ( 12) 6 72.48 ( 12)
13 MID-AMERICAN(west) = 71.55 71.70 ( 13) 6 71.69 ( 13)
14 COLONIAL = 71.40 71.13 ( 14) 10 71.17 ( 14)
15 IVY LEAGUE = 70.85 70.76 ( 15) 8 70.79 ( 15)
16 SUN BELT = 69.80 69.94 ( 16) 12 69.93 ( 16)
17 SUMMIT LEAGUE = 69.38 69.78 ( 17) 8 69.70 ( 17)
18 METRO ATLANTIC = 69.17 69.15 ( 19) 11 69.16 ( 19)
19 CONFERENCE USA = 69.00 69.33 ( 18) 14 69.19 ( 18)
20 HORIZON = 68.69 68.89 ( 21) 10 68.84 ( 21)
10 MISSOURI VALLEY = 74.84 74.26 ( 11) TEAMS= 10 74.44 ( 10)
College Basketball 2017-2018 Div I games only through games of 2017 November 15 Wednesday
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50 | PREDICTOR | GOLDEN_MEAN | RECENT
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 3.00] [ 3.00] [ 3.00] [ 3.00]
78 Missouri State = 78.07 2 0 65.18( 256) 0 0 | 0 0 | 77.99 80 | 77.47 84 | 79.11 77
82 Northern Iowa = 77.88 1 1 74.62( 142) 0 1 | 0 1 | 77.91 82 | 77.42 86 | 76.42 117
97 Valparaiso = 76.47 1 0 63.91( 273) 0 0 | 0 0 | 76.44 97 | 75.77 103 | 77.06 108
107 Illinois State = 75.60 0 1 79.79( 83) 0 0 | 0 0 | 75.88 104 | 75.24 115 | 70.09 194
109 Southern Illinois = 75.57 1 0 73.42( 157) 0 0 | 0 0 | 75.13 114 | 75.64 106 | 80.81 60
115 Loyola-Chicago = 75.33 1 0 66.94( 233) 0 0 | 0 0 | 74.91 117 | 76.13 95 | 76.64 112
119 Indiana State = 75.03 1 0 80.73( 73) 0 0 | 0 0 | 74.30 129 | 75.44 108 | 89.02 8
153 Evansville = 72.54 2 0 63.36( 282) 0 0 | 0 0 | 72.41 151 | 71.59 163 | 75.95 122
171 Bradley = 71.32 2 0 63.81( 277) 0 0 | 0 0 | 70.97 174 | 70.09 184 | 80.66 62
273 Drake = 64.79 0 0 0.00( 0) 0 0 | 0 0 | 64.63 273 | 64.51 275 | 65.80 245
20 HORIZON = 68.69 68.89 ( 21) TEAMS= 10 68.84 ( 21)
College Basketball 2017-2018 Div I games only through games of 2017 November 15 Wednesday
RATING W L SCHEDL(RANK) VS top 25 | VS top 50 | PREDICTOR | GOLDEN_MEAN | RECENT
HOME ADVANTAGE=[ 3.00] [ 3.00] [ 3.00] [ 3.00]
93 Oakland-Mich. = 76.68 2 0 64.67( 263) 0 0 | 0 0 | 76.60 94 | 75.91 100 | 78.43 92
138 Northern Kentucky = 73.77 1 0 68.44( 219) 0 0 | 0 0 | 73.45 139 | 73.48 140 | 77.77 99
160 Milwaukee = 72.13 1 0 82.28( 64) 0 0 | 0 0 | 71.26 168 | 72.82 152 | 84.63 35
193 Wright State = 69.94 0 2 74.57( 145) 0 0 | 0 0 | 70.00 189 | 69.79 191 | 66.68 234
210 Illinois-Chicago = 69.00 1 1 67.21( 231) 0 0 | 0 0 | 69.04 208 | 68.65 209 | 66.87 231
218 Green Bay = 68.21 0 1 75.00( 131) 0 0 | 0 0 | 68.15 219 | 68.47 214 | 65.20 252
228 Detroit Mercy = 67.81 0 1 88.42( 20) 0 0 | 0 1 | 67.50 235 | 68.29 221 | 68.32 216
285 Youngstown State = 63.94 0 1 76.49( 116) 0 0 | 0 0 | 63.58 287 | 64.83 269 | 63.46 277
287 IUPUI = 63.80 0 1 74.33( 147) 0 0 | 0 0 | 63.77 286 | 63.46 288 | 62.85 287
290 Cleveland State = 63.62 0 2 76.62( 114) 0 0 | 0 0 | 63.16 292 | 64.86 267 | 63.09 283
MVC #10. That's pretty cool.
Today, we are #118 on Kenpom.
No Valpo in the Mid-Major Madness Rankings. We're better then some of those teams receiving votes, imo. We have an opportunity to crack the Top 25 Mid-Major polls if we have a good showing this week. Games against: Samford, Kent State and UNCW. It's a big week.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/11/20/16681414/mid-major-madness-power-rankings-belmont-bruins-rick-byrd-saint-marys-gonzaga
Mid-Major Madness Power Rankings: Week 1
RANK TEAM RECORD LAST WEEK POINTS
1 Saint Mary's (7) 4-0 - 199
2 Gonzaga (1) 3-0 - 193
3 Nevada 4-0 - 180
4 Vermont 3-1 - 178
5 UT Arlington 2-0 - 159
6 Rhode Island 2-1 - 137
7 Belmont 4-1 - 122
8 Boise State 4-1 - 120
9 Charleston 2-1 - 106
10 VCU 2-1 - 102
11 Florida Gulf Coast 2-1 - 94
12 Old Dominion 4-1 - 90
13 Davidson 2-0 - 75
14 Middle Tennessee 3-1 - 71
14 Oakland 2-1 - 71
16 New Mexico State 2-1 - 68
17 Georgia Southern 3-0 - 64
18 Northern Kentucky 4-1 - 62
19 Saint Louis 3-1 - 52
20 BYU 2-1 - 48
21 St. Bonaventure 1-1 - 47
22 Loyola Chicago 4-0 - 32
23 Missouri State 2-1 - 26
24 Mercer 4-2 - 25
24 Toledo 3-0 - 25
Also receiving votes: Grand Canyon 23, Saint Joseph's 23, Utah Valley 21, Dayton 20, San Diego State 18, Wyoming 18, South Dakota 15, Yale 14, Louisiana Tech 14, Princeton 13, Monmouth 12, Hofstra 11, South Dakota State 11, Bucknell 9, North Dakota State 9, UNC Asheville 6, Coastal Carolina 5, Furman 5, Montana 4, Albany 2.
And with that loss to Georgia Southern Missouri State's spot in these rankings is gone baby gone For the good of the MVC please #FirePaulLusk
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 16, 2017, 06:45:56 PM
MVC #10. That's pretty cool.
The Valley is #9 in the Sagarins. Valpo #82
Top 100 in KenPom too #100) Go Valpo!
We're in the CollegeInsider Mid Major Top 25! Our Crusaders check in at #18 one spot behind Loyola.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 20, 2017, 11:15:30 PM
We're in the CollegeInsider Mid Major Top 25! Our Crusaders check in at #18 one spot behind Loyola.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
This poll is obviously the more accurate one. Loyola will soon be behind us. ;)
Warren Nolan streak list
All top 10
Longest winning streak
Longest winning streak this season
Longest home winning streak
Longest road winning streak
Largest average scoring margin
Rpi 51
Do you agree or disagree with these rankings? Looks about right to me. Maybe ND over Purdue.
https://twitter.com/SamBarloga/status/934544522377334784
I'm hoping we can crack a few more of the Mid-Major Top 25 rankings after this weekend two wins.
Looks like we're getting Top 25 votes from mid-major madness:
https://twitter.com/andyevans16/status/935001251275857920
UNI at 22 seems low to me after their performance at the Battle 4Atlantis
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 20, 2017, 11:15:30 PMWe're in the CollegeInsider Mid Major Top 25! Our Crusaders check in at #18 one spot behind Loyola.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
Let me dump it here, so we have a copy after it updates later today.
Update: November 20th, 2017
RECORD POINTS PREVIOUS
1. Gonzaga (28) 3-0 771 1 West Coast
2. Saint Mary's (3) 4-0 747 2 West Coast
3. Vermont 3-1 705 3 America East
4. UT Arlington 2-0 650 9 Sun Belt
5. Charleston 2-1 624 4 Colonial
6. Belmont 4-1 556 10 Ohio Valley
7. Oakland 2-1 493 5 Horizon
8. Albany 3-0 439 18 America East
9. Georgia Southern 4-0 434 19 Sun Belt
10. BYU 2-1 428 8 West Coast
11. Northern Kentucky 4-1 420 11 Horizon
12. Louisiana 3-1 402 14 Sun Belt
13. FGCU 2-1 372 12 Atlantic Sun
14. South Dakota State 3-1 286 13 Summit
15. Harvard 2-2 281 6 Ivy League
16. Mercer 4-2 265 16 Southern
17. Loyola Chicago 4-0 230 NR Missouri Valley
18. Valparaiso 4-0 190 NR Missouri Valley
19. Furman 2-1 172 17 Southern
20. Georgia State 2-1 151 20 Sun Belt
21. Missouri State 2-2 145 15 Missouri Valley
22. Eastern Michigan 4-0 122 NR Mid-American
23. Buffalo 2-0 115 NR Mid-American
24. Toledo 3-0 109 NR Mid-American
25. Grand Canyon 3-0 88 NR Western Athletic
OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: Kent State 86, UNC Asheville 54, Evansville 49, Bucknell 47, Princeton 47,New Mexico State 43, Illinois State 39, Milwaukee 38, Yale 35, Monmouth 32, Elon 29, South Dakota 29, Montana 27, Western Michigan 25, Hawaii 22, UNCW 22, Bradley 21, Northern Iowa 20, Towson 20, Portland State 19, Stephen F Austin 17, Fort Wayne 15, UC Riverside 15, Lamar 14, Manhattan 14, Montana State 13, Akron 10, Bowling Green 10, Iona 9, Jacksonville State 9, North Carolina A&T 9, North Dakota 9, UC Irvine 8, Samford 6, ETSU, Murray State 5, Weber State 4, Winthrop 4, UMass-Lowell 3, San Francisco 2, Chattanooga 1, Indiana State 1, Liberty 1, Radford 1, Texas Southern 1.
We'll certainly move up in the mid-major coaches poll, as will Loyola.
If we handle Utah State at home, and a few other teams lose games (29 undefeated?), will that be enough to get a vote or two in the real top 25 poll? Or do we have to beat Purdue? We'll be significant underdogs at Purdue, and I'm not predicting a win, but I suppose it would be enough to get us plenty of votes in the RV category.
Quote from: agibson on November 13, 2017, 03:10:21 PMLunardi in his Nov 8 Bracketology gave Loyola a 13 (?!) seed.
I notice that he updated November 23. Oakland slips to a 13. The Valley stays at 13, but he inexplicably switched it from Loyola to IL State.
Quite early for this, but still somewhat interesting,
Out of curiosity, I visited the Bracket Matrix web site (www.bracketmatrix.com), which annually lists projected brackets from different web sites. As we sit here, from an aggregate standpoint, Valpo is the leading representative from the MVC. So, among folks sufficiently interested to blog about such things, there is an undercurrent of support for Valpo in the MVC. On the downside, VU is currently aggregated as a 12 seed. Hopefully, continued victories will move that up a few notches.
In past years, Bracket Matrix has provided statistical grades on past accuracy of bracket pickers, and CBS and ESPN did not do so well. So, I tend to put more weight on the aggregate scores, rather than any one picker.
Quote from: 4throwfan on November 27, 2017, 11:36:31 AMAs we sit here, from an aggregate standpoint, Valpo is the leading representative from the MVC. On the downside, VU is currently aggregated as a 12 seed.
Tied with Missouri State?
But I'll confess to taking some pleasure in Oakland's 12.9.
Even though Valpo and MO State both appear in 6 brackets, I think the tiebreaker is the average seed, which is lower for Valpo.
Once the conference season begins, then the default representative will likely be whichever team is in first place. Ideally, Valpo is still in the lead come late December, and ideally we see enough MVC quality wins such that at-large possibilities come into play.
Awfully early for all of that, and awfully ideal, but still fun to hope as we sit here.
Quote from: 4throwfan on November 27, 2017, 01:35:43 PMEven though Valpo and MO State both appear in 6 brackets, I think the tiebreaker is the average seed, which is lower for Valpo.
Numerical trivia, but it looks to me like the average is the same. Our standard deviation is lower (not that I'm claiming that broke the tie).
They've got two 11's, two 12's, two 13's. We've got one 11, four 12's, and a 13.
Quote from: agibson on November 27, 2017, 10:06:34 AMIf we handle Utah State at home, and a few other teams lose games (29 undefeated?), will that be enough to get a vote or two in the real top 25 poll? Or do we have to beat Purdue? We'll be significant underdogs at Purdue, and I'm not predicting a win, but I suppose it would be enough to get us plenty of votes in the RV category.
Looks like the "acquire a gaudy record, even if you're not beating giants, and eventually someone will rank you" trick is working for Loyola. They picked up one point in the Coaches' poll. First Valley team this season to receive votes. So, if we beat Utah State (and maybe especially if Loyola also loses at Boise State) there's a chance we get a vote or two.
In news of "other teams we're following" Purdue's now merely receiving votes (26th in the Coaches poll, lower from the writers). Northwestern is still getting a few too. Oakland is not.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 26, 2017, 10:08:26 PMI'm hoping we can crack a few more of the Mid-Major Top 25 rankings after this weekend two wins.
Looks like we're getting Top 25 votes from mid-major madness:
We came very close in this one. #26, just a hair behind Missouri State who fell from #23 to #25 (and were passed by SD State; Northern KY's there too, above Oakland who's merely RV).
Loyola climbs from #22 to #17.
Northern Iowa vaults from unmentioned to... #10! On the basis of Thanksgiving neutral court wins over SMU and NC State. And, indeed, they should get some attention. "Only" 5-2, but losses to Villanova and @UNC aren't bad.
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/11/27/16706000/mid-major-madness-power-rankings-gonzaga-nevada-vermont-unlv-2017
Mid-Major Madness Power Rankings: Week 2
RANK TEAM RECORD LAST WEEK POINTS
1 Gonzaga (7) 5-1 2 199
2 Nevada (1) 4-1 3 189
3 Vermont 5-1 4 178
4 Saint Mary's 5-2 1 175
5 Rhode Island 3-2 6 168
6 UT Arlington 4-1 5 165
7 Belmont 4-2 7 130
8 Middle Tennessee 4-1 14 116
9 St. Bonaventure 3-2 21 115
10 Northern Iowa 5-2 NR 104
11 San Diego State 5-2 NR 102
12 Boise State 5-1 8 94
13 FGCU 5-2 11 93
14 New Mexico State 4-1 16 88
15 VCU 3-3 10 87
16 UNLV 6-0 NR 72
17 Loyola Chicago 7-0 22 66
18 Old Dominion 4-2 12 49
19 Louisiana Tech 5-0 NR 46
20 Charleston 4-2 9 39
21 Northern Kentucky 4-2 18 38
22 Wyoming 5-1 NR 37
23 BYU 4-2 20 34
24 South Dakota State 6-2 NR 31
25 Missouri State 5-2 23 27
Also receiving votes: Valparaiso 26, Bucknell 26, Western Kentucky 20, Albany 18, Mercer 18, Oakland 9, Bradley 6, San Diego 6, Georgia Southern 6, Utah Valley 5, Fresno State 4, Towson 4, Princeton 4, Illinois State 3, Murray State 2.
Quote from: agibson on November 27, 2017, 04:39:40 PMAlso receiving votes: Valparaiso 26, Bucknell 26,
My sister went to Bucknell.... we need to get them on the schedule to enliven the smack talk. Right after, we need to schedule Vermont where the rest of the family went...
Quote from: agibson on November 27, 2017, 01:42:25 PM
Quote from: agibson on November 27, 2017, 10:06:34 AMIf we handle Utah State at home, and a few other teams lose games (29 undefeated?), will that be enough to get a vote or two in the real top 25 poll? Or do we have to beat Purdue? We'll be significant underdogs at Purdue, and I'm not predicting a win, but I suppose it would be enough to get us plenty of votes in the RV category.
Looks like the "acquire a gaudy record, even if you're not beating giants, and eventually someone will rank you" trick is working for Loyola. They picked up one point in the Coaches' poll. First Valley team this season to receive votes. So, if we beat Utah State (and maybe especially if Loyola also loses at Boise State) there's a chance we get a vote or two.
In news of "other teams we're following" Purdue's now merely receiving votes (26th in the Coaches poll, lower from the writers). Northwestern is still getting a few too. Oakland is not.
I doubt it and I hope LUC doesn't lose to anyone but us. I think they are seen as a better version of us, for not being in a "rebuilding" phase. If they lose, it'll be a blow to the conference and thus will make all of us seem weaker. Furthermore, Utah State isn't that good a win.
If we handle our business against Utah State and get to 8-0 we just may crack that mid major madness big board Side note: Bradley needs more love They've been so impressive
Quote from: Valpower on November 27, 2017, 04:58:36 PM
Quote from: agibson on November 27, 2017, 01:42:25 PM
Quote from: agibson on November 27, 2017, 10:06:34 AMIf we handle Utah State at home, and a few other teams lose games (29 undefeated?), will that be enough to get a vote or two in the real top 25 poll? Or do we have to beat Purdue? We'll be significant underdogs at Purdue, and I'm not predicting a win, but I suppose it would be enough to get us plenty of votes in the RV category.
Looks like the "acquire a gaudy record, even if you're not beating giants, and eventually someone will rank you" trick is working for Loyola. They picked up one point in the Coaches' poll. First Valley team this season to receive votes. So, if we beat Utah State (and maybe especially if Loyola also loses at Boise State) there's a chance we get a vote or two.
In news of "other teams we're following" Purdue's now merely receiving votes (26th in the Coaches poll, lower from the writers). Northwestern is still getting a few too. Oakland is not.
I doubt it and I hope LUC doesn't lose to anyone but us. I think they are seen as a better version of us, for not being in a "rebuilding" phase. If they lose, it'll be a blow to the conference and thus will make all of us seem weaker. Furthermore, Utah State isn't that good a win.
If we get a vote or two it would be for the 8-0 record, for having another win while some teams lose, rather than Utah State being any kind of signature win. I certainly don't _want_ Loyola to lose, but I figure in the short term that voters may be reluctant to have two 8-0 mid-major teams with no big wins on their ballot. And that many will pick Loyola over us.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 27, 2017, 05:08:30 PMSide note: Bradley needs more love They've been so impressive
I totally agree! Just don't try saying anything nice about coach Wardle or the vitriol will start raining in from the entire board less myself. :rant: Seems to be some issues from the Green Bay days that these folks just will not forget or forgive. Personally I am happy that he will be returning to the ARC with another competitive future rival. :thewave:
Quote from: justducky on November 27, 2017, 05:55:08 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 27, 2017, 05:08:30 PMSide note: Bradley needs more love They've been so impressive
I totally agree! Just don't try saying anything nice about coach Wardle or the vitriol will start raining in from the entire board less myself. :rant: Seems to be some issues from the Green Bay days that these folks just will not forget or forgive. Personally I am happy that he will be returning to the ARC with another competitive future rival. :thewave:
When bradley comes to town we should play this highlight in between every timeout ;) Mental warfare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9x2BFYpOXs
Valpo is #8 in the new CollegeInsider.com poll. We jumped 10 spots in a week.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
4 teams in. Bradley and Evansville lurking. Drake getting some notice. Very nice.
Quote from: wh on November 27, 2017, 07:37:15 PM
Valpo is #8 in the new CollegeInsider.com poll. We jumped 10 spots in a week.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
UNI being ranked behind us at this point is just silly. They should be ahead of Valpo and Loyola for certain. Records mean too much in this poll it would seem.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 27, 2017, 09:08:24 PM
Quote from: wh on November 27, 2017, 07:37:15 PM
Valpo is #8 in the new CollegeInsider.com poll. We jumped 10 spots in a week.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
UNI being ranked behind us at this point is just silly. They should be ahead of Valpo and Loyola for certain. Records mean too much in this poll it would seem.
Agreed. Just by eye test I wouldn't say Evansville/Drake are even fringe Top 25 right now. Although Drake had a nice win against Wake Forest but WK is pretty down this season. Not to take anything away from those teams but I just don't see it right now.
National comparison
CURRENT WIN STREAKS: Valparaiso T-3, 5-way tie with Cincinnati, Minnesota, Loyola and Virginia at 7-0
LONGEST WIN STREAKS THIS SEASON: T-2, 5-way tie with Cincinnati, Minnesota, Loyola and Virginia at 7
CURRENT HOME WIN STREAKS: T-9, 5-way tie with Bucknell, Louisville, NC-Asheville and Wichita State at 12 (Vermont is at 14)
BEST ROAD RECORDS: T-8, with a bunch of other teams at 1-0
SCORING MARGIN: 17, 19.6 PPG, (#16 Virginia is 19.7 and #18 Arizona State is 19.3)
WINNING PERCENTAGE: T-1 with 27 other schools undefeated
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 27, 2017, 09:08:24 PMUNI being ranked behind us at this point is just silly. They should be ahead of Valpo and Loyola for certain. Records mean too much in this poll it would seem.
There's a lot of inertia in the mid-major coaches poll like there is in the AP and national coaches poll. It feels like a lot of people start with their ballot the week before, and just move things up/down based on wins and losses. It's hard to break into these things.
Frankly, I'm much more surprised that Northern Iowa vaulted so high in the Mid-Major Madness ranking.
It's hard to weigh a couple of big wins against other factors. KenPom, a computer ranking many respect, has Loyola 76, Valpo 82, Northern Iowa 96. Sagarin, another computer ranking that seems to have respect, has Northern Iowa 62, Valpo 72, Loyola 86.
Quote from: agibson on November 16, 2017, 09:01:28 AM
Quote from: agibson on November 13, 2017, 03:10:21 PMValpo's at
AdjO 100.0 (189th)
AdjD 97.7 (85th)
for an overall +2.27 "adjusted efficiency margin" which puts us at #132.
I expect our offensive rating will improve. We'll see.
Edwardsville's defense is not (was not?) highly rated. But, you score 94, your offensive rating is going to go up.
KenPom:
118 Valparaiso MVC 3-0 +3.62 101.3 167 97.7 80
(#118 overall, +3.62 adjusted efficiency margin, #167 offense, defense basically unchanged at #80)
Our Pomeroy's continued to increase. The defense after every game. The offense slipped a bit after the UNCW (before that we were as high as 104.7, #128).
Overall we were #92 before Savannah, #88 after the first game, #82 now.
Currently:
82 Valparaiso MVC 7-0 +7.28 104.0 145 96.8 47
Quote from: agibson on November 13, 2017, 03:10:21 PM
Pomeroy (kenpom.com) has, after a game or two,
(84 Oakland)
94 Illinois State
95 Missouri State
100 Loyola
(115 Northern KY)
119 Bradley
124 Southern Illinois
129 Northern Iowa
132 Valparaiso
143 Evansville
(158 UIC)
165 Indiana State
(191 Wright State)
(208 Milwaukee)
223 Drake
(230 IUPUI)
(248 Green Bay)
(268 Cleveland State)
(278 Youngstown State)
(280 Detroit)
I'm definitely liking "8 teams in the top 150"!
Just for fun, let me update these too
76 Loyola (+24)
82 Valparaiso (+50)
98 Northern Iowa (+31)
107 Illinois State (-13)
(109 Northern KY) (+6)
110 Missouri State (-15)
(120 Oakland) (-36)
122 Bradley (-3)
137 Evansville (+6)
155 Southern Illinois (-31)
(166 Milwaukee) (+42)
(172 UIC) (-14)
186 Indiana State (-21)
(195 Wright State) (-4)
197 Drake (+26)
(225 IUPUI) (+5)
(280 Green Bay) (-32)
(282 Cleveland State) (-24)
(292 Detroit) (-12)
(317 Youngstown State) (-39)
Looks like Valpo, then Milwaukee, then Northern Iowa have been the biggest risers.
Youngstown, Oakland, Green Bay, and SIU the biggest fallers.
Now the Valley has three in the top-100, still 7 in the top-150. And nobody below 200!
Quote from: agibson on November 27, 2017, 05:12:42 PMIf we get a vote or two it would be for the 8-0 record, for having another win while some teams lose, rather than Utah State being any kind of signature win. I certainly don't _want_ Loyola to lose, but I figure in the short term that voters may be reluctant to have two 8-0 mid-major teams with no big wins on their ballot. And that many will pick Loyola over us.
We're probably going to get a chance to see how hard they ding us after Loyola gets smoked by Boise. We've played a lot of common opponents and, thus, their difficulties with a good Boise team and ours with a hobbled Utah State will weaken the achievement of being unbeaten. Luckily, I don't care much about rankings this year. The potential for this team is great.
as of 10pm Warren Nolan update...
Win Streaks - This Season
1. Duke 8
1. Valparaiso 8
Current Win Streaks
1. TCU 11
2. Duke 8
2. Valparaiso 8
Most Wins
1. Duke 8 - 0
2. Cincinnati 7 - 0
2. Minnesota 7 - 0
2. Virginia 7 - 0
5. Valparaiso 6 - 0
5. Arizona State 6 - 0
5. Colorado 6 - 0
5. Florida State 6 - 0
5. Kansas 6 - 0
5. Nevada 6 - 0
5. Syracuse 6 - 0
5. TCU 6 - 0
5. Texas A&M 6 - 0
5. Texas Tech 6 - 0
5. UNLV 6 - 0
5. Villanova 6 - 0
5. Washington State 6 - 0
Current Home Win Streaks
1. Oregon 46
2. Cincinnati 30
3. SMU 27
4. Florida State 24
5. Texas Southern 23
6. North Carolina 20
7. Dayton 16
8. Vermont 14
9. Valparaiso 13
9. Wichita State 13
Winning Percentage
1. Valparaiso 100.0%
1. Arizona State 100.0%
1. Cincinnati 100.0%
1. Colorado 100.0%
1. Duke 100.0%
1. Florida State 100.0%
1. Georgetown 100.0%
1. Illinois 100.0%
1. Kansas 100.0%
1. Louisiana Tech 100.0%
1. Miami (FL) 100.0%
1. Minnesota 100.0%
1. Mississippi State 100.0%
1. Nevada 100.0%
1. Notre Dame 100.0%
1. San Diego 100.0%
1. Syracuse 100.0%
1. TCU 100.0%
1. Texas A&M 100.0%
1. Texas Tech 100.0%
1. UNLV 100.0%
1. Villanova 100.0%
1. Virginia 100.0%
1. Washington State 100.0%
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/935743657470251009
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/935743556408500226
We're a 12 seed in Joe Lunardi's latest bracketology update. We'd be facing Purdue a 4 seed. A little ironic given who up next on the schedule.
https://twitter.com/michaelosipoff/status/936277354363670534
https://twitter.com/michaelosipoff/status/936277354363670534
Quote from: VU2014 on November 30, 2017, 11:13:50 AMWe're a 12 seed in Joe Lunardi's latest bracketology update. We'd be facing Purdue a 4 seed. A little ironic given who up next on the schedule.
Nice!
[The seeds in first round games add to 17. Like 1 vs 16. So, Valpo's a 12, Purdue's a 4, but they're not playing each other. Though they are at the same site. Gonzaga (5) vs. Valpo (12). Purdue (4) vs. MTSU (13).]
It's great to be getting this kind of love but UNI not even being in the field right now is just baffling.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 30, 2017, 11:38:51 AM
It's great to be getting this kind of love but UNI not even being in the field right now is just baffling.
Eh, UNI's early season resume doesn't support this statement currently. Only 1 Top 100 win in UNLV. RPI wise our wins over SIUE and SELA are better than NC State, for the time being lol.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 30, 2017, 11:38:51 AM
It's great to be getting this kind of love but UNI not even being in the field right now is just baffling.
They're the (only?) ones who might have the makings of an at-large bid. But, it's hard to deny the tantalizing possibilities of an X-0 record. Let's enjoy it, while we can.
Hypothetically, how many losses do you think that Valpo could absorb and still get an at-large bid. Let's assume that none of those losses occur against sub-160 RPI opponents (UC-Riverside, Drake, Indiana State) - not to underestimate those opponents but just to eliminate a 'really bad loss' being considered. I am not predicting that this will happen, but am interested in opinions.
I would say 4 total, including in the conference tournament semifinal or final. If it were in the final, that would put Valpo at 30-4 and would probably require an upset of Northwestern and an incredible (and unrealistic) 16-2 record in the first year of MVC play. If we did the same thing with UNI, they would probably be allowed 6 or maybe 7 total losses (they have 2 already) and need a win over Xavier for an at-large birth due to some very strong non-conference opponents. It just shows what a mountain mid-majors face when trying to get an at-large birth these days.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 30, 2017, 03:44:15 PMHypothetically, how many losses do you think that Valpo could absorb and still get an at-large bid. Let's assume that none of those losses occur against sub-160 RPI opponents (UC-Riverside, Drake, Indiana State) - not to underestimate those opponents but just to eliminate a 'really bad loss' being considered. I am not predicting that this will happen, but am interested in opinions.
I would say 4 total, including in the conference tournament semifinal or final. If it were in the final, that would put Valpo at 30-4 and would probably require an upset of Northwestern and an incredible (and unrealistic) 16-2 record in the first year of MVC play.
Would a win or two against UNI be enough? That may be our best chance at a quality win, as things forecast today. Purdue would help immensely. Northwestern would probably help just for the B1G cache.
RPI Forecast actually expects our RPI to stay about where it is now.Coming into the conference tournament they have us at 21-8, 12-6 in conference, and RPI 52 or so.
If we managed 24-5, and they see that finish or better as about 9% likely, they think our RPI would be 25 or 26.
But, if those five losses are Purdue, Northwestern, UNI twice, and, say, a split with RPI 84 Missouri State, I bet they find a way to leave us out of the tournament.
(This conversation feels like tremendous hubris! At minimum a guilty pleasure. But, I'm going to run with it until we pick up a couple of losses, or a bad loss, etc.)
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 30, 2017, 03:44:15 PM
Hypothetically, how many losses do you think that Valpo could absorb and still get an at-large bid. Let's assume that none of those losses occur against sub-160 RPI opponents (UC-Riverside, Drake, Indiana State) - not to underestimate those opponents but just to eliminate a 'really bad loss' being considered. I am not predicting that this will happen, but am interested in opinions.
I would say 4 total, including in the conference tournament semifinal or final. If it were in the final, that would put Valpo at 30-4 and would probably require an upset of Northwestern and an incredible (and unrealistic) 16-2 record in the first year of MVC play. If we did the same thing with UNI, they would probably be allowed 6 or maybe 7 total losses (they have 2 already) and need a win over Xavier for an at-large birth due to some very strong non-conference opponents. It just shows what a mountain mid-majors face when trying to get an at-large birth these days.
Knowing the selection committee... 0.
we need things like UNCW not to lose to #325 East Carolina... they are tied with 3 to play.
Quote from: talksalot on November 30, 2017, 08:47:43 PM
we need things like UNCW not to lose to #325 East Carolina... they are tied with 3 to play.
Overtime. C'mon UNCW. Not only is East Carolina lowly, their coach just resigned.
and that was after the Seahawks scored the first 10 points of the game...
at least Santa Clara is winning BIG early...(27-7) 11:27 to go in the first half
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/936641908235005952
https://twitter.com/MrMattCraig/status/936594427539283969
https://theathletic.com/170675/2017/12/01/mid-major-top-25-power-rankings-nevada-saint-marys-unlv-vermont-rhode-island-bucknell/
1. Nevada (7-0)
2. UT Arlington (6-1)
3. Saint Mary's (5-2)
4. Vermont (6-1)
5. Rhode Island (4-2)
6. Northern Iowa (6-2)
7. Belmont (4-4)
8. Middle Tennessee (4-1)
9. Florida Gulf Coast (6-2)
10. UNLV (6-1)
11. Western Kentucky (5-2)
12. Bucknell (3-5)
13. VCU (4-3)
14. Missouri State (6-2)
15. St. Bonaventure (4-2)
16. South Dakota State (7-2)
17. Towson (6-1)
18. Bradley (6-1)
19. Georgia Southern (5-2)
20. Boise State (6-1)
21. Oakland (4-3)
22. College of Charleston (5-2)
23. Albany (7-1)
24. Louisiana Tech (5-1)
25. Yale (5-4)
Honorable mention: Illinois State, Northern Kentucky, Portland State, BYU, San Diego State, Old Dominion
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/864e623d468ddbcd0cd4999c67de4165/tenor.gif)
How bad is Lunardi shafting the MVC? UNI has beaten teams on the "last four byes" (SMU) First four in (NCST) and next four out (UNLV). And UNI is nowhere to be found anywhere on his so-called Braketology. That's a disgrace. This is a multi bid league right now. Whether it will finish as one is another matter entirely but not to have the MVC receiving multiple bids right now is just being petty and in the Power 5's pocket.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 01, 2017, 12:13:17 PMThis is a multi bid league right now.
I don't know about that. An RPI of 61 isn't likely to do if or Valpo. Unless you're saying Bradley (41) and UNI (27) would be in. But, it's stilly too early for me to want to take RPI very seriously.
But, you could well argue that UNI deserves the auto-bid over Valpo. But, I think he probably just goes with record (non-con only for now) to determine the auto-bids.
UNI certainly. Bradley has been fantastic but they're in the same boat as Valpo right now. Their numbers look very good but their resume lacks signature victories . Beating SDSU on Sunday and Ole Miss in three weeks will help in that regard. But I think they need both and to win out over the rest of the nonconference schedule to have a real chance. Their non-con schedule is pretty unspectacular.
I think the MVC is probably still going to be a 1 bid league even if we finish as a Top 8-9 RPI conference coming into Conference play. Even if we had 2 worthy conference teams on paper I have zero faith the Committee would give the MVC an at-large because they have a track record of screwing worthy mid-majors.
I think a lot of teams are going to be beating each other up in Conference play this season. I don't see a Wichita State or Illinois State type team going 17-1 in conference play.
Maybe UNI, Bradley, Loyola-Chicago, & Valpo have a shot as things stand right now. None of those 4 teams have a resume killing bad loss right now, but they'd need to not have a single bad loss to finish non-conference AND in conference play. UNI has a statement performances in the Non-Conference and Bradley also has a statement win against GA Southern and nearly beat a very good Vermont team. Loyola-Chicago looked awful against Boise State but Boise is still a strong team. Loyola doesn't have a statement win yet.
Valpo doesn't have any statement games yet but we haven't done anything to hurt our resume yet either. Our statement opportunities come in December against Purdue, Northwestern and a good-not great Ball State team. We'll gain respect from the media pontificators if we have good showings against Purdue and Northwestern even if we don't win the games.
Valpo2014' while it's wrong, we all know the Committee will make it right with their selections. I really and truly hate the selection committee because they care more about "brand" than substance. Valpo gives them substance. We have, the past 2 years.
They should look at teams that are afraid to play us in the barn known as the ARC and pit them against them in a true home game scenario.
I'll never forget being at the NIT games against Texas State, and then P5 Florida State followed by St. Mary's where we took care of all of them in a semi packed to packed to the rafters gym.
Those games were incredible! FSU and SMC were the two best ARC atmospheres I've ever been a part of. Only the past Butler games compare. And the second half against SMC was the best team defense I've ever seen live. Such an efficient offensive team reduced to nothing. And of course it's never a bad time to mention that we are 2-0 all time vs FSU. I just hope that the atmosphere will be that electric for MVC games. Go Valpo!
Greatest atmosphere that I experienced was that Butler HL conference tourney game at Valpo 6 years ago. We had some fantastic atmospheres for Oral Roberts while I was in school, but that beat down of Butler was an awesome atmosphere!
Quote from: valpotx on December 01, 2017, 08:54:36 PM
Greatest atmosphere that I experienced was that Butler HL conference tourney game at Valpo 6 years ago.
It was a great game! I really miss those Valpo vs Butler games. It's too bad we don't play each other every year anymore. As much as Butler fans hate to admit it those Valpo vs Butler in-state rivalry games meant a little more then other games. They got the best of us for a while but they couldn't beat us on their way out of the HL. 4-0 the last 4 games.
I remember that game valpotx is talking about. The Student section was getting under Brad Stevens skin that game lol. I remember someone stole the male butler cheerleaders megahorn and people were passing it around the student section while they were search for it. (don't worry they got it back) Great memories.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 01, 2017, 03:23:30 PMthe Committee
Quote from: VU2014 on December 01, 2017, 03:23:30 PMthey have a track record of screwing worthy mid-majors.
No doubt about it. It's about the money and creating match ups that attract TV audiences. BTW, the committee has not done a good job of picking match ups for TV lately.
That's a great way to put it. After all, nobody's interested in seeing a mid major make a run and absolutely no one ever tunes in to watch them when they do.
Quote from: bbtds on December 02, 2017, 11:23:51 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 30, 2017, 03:44:15 PMat-large birth
FYI, it's "at large berth."
It depends on the context. For Valpo, it would be our at-large "birth." Long past full-term, I might add.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 01, 2017, 03:23:30 PMthey have a track record of screwing worthy mid-majors.
Quote from: bbtds on December 02, 2017, 11:36:15 AMNo doubt about it. It's about the money and creating match ups that attract TV audiences. BTW, the committee has not done a good job of picking match ups for TV lately.
I suspect that it's not just sour grapes, and that reasonable people might be able to agree that there are some factors that make selection go badly for mid-majors.
I'm not convinced it's a conspiracy in the selection room, or has to do with creating TV games (CBS and the NCAA bank account has every reason to want at least one or two cinderella stories in the tournament).
I think it _may_ have to do with an unreasonable emphasis on RPI and quality wins and losses. Near as I can tell, everything is set up to help the "major" teams get high RPI's by scheduling middling to poor teams as home games, and then benefiting from conference-mates' gaudy non-conference W-L records. Similarly, they have many more chances for "quality" wins on their home courts. And relatively few chances for "bad" losses (they don't tend to play "bad" teams on the road).
If it really is as simple as that, I'm not sure why the mid-majority hasn't/can't do something about it, by changing committee guidelines or introducing scheduling rules.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 02, 2017, 12:11:22 PM
That's a great way to put it. After all, nobody's interested in seeing a mid major make a run and absolutely no one ever tunes in to watch them when they do.
I'm sensing a bit of sarcasm here. TV execs love the cinderella runs because it draws the casual viewers in which is where you get the big ratings. The cinderella's and upsets get the media attention from the 'Good Morning America' & 'Today Show' type of programs which brings a nice boost to TV ratings.
Quote from: bbtds on December 02, 2017, 11:36:15 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on December 01, 2017, 03:23:30 PMthe Committee
Quote from: VU2014 on December 01, 2017, 03:23:30 PMthey have a track record of screwing worthy mid-majors.
No doubt about it. It's about the money and creating match ups that attract TV audiences. BTW, the committee has not done a good job of picking match ups for TV lately.
It is definitely about the $ and picking certain matchups. The Vanderbilt vs Northwestern game last year made absolutely no sense from a seeding perspective. Vandy was realistically a fringe bubble team but they some how got paired with Northwestern. It was 2 great academic schools playing each other.
If we get in the Tourney in the near future. I wouldn't be surprised to see us pair with Vandy or Baylor in the 1st round (or Bryce vs Scott matchup) or even with one of the bigger Indiana schools. What I absolutely despise is when the committee purposely matchups up to cinderella caliber mid-majors together in the 1st - 2nd round. They do that on purpose. The committee is so blatantly flawed and they don't even follow the criteria they lay out for themselves.
As for the MVC I think we can become a semi-frequent 2 bid league again during the strong years but to become a consistent multi-bid league again we'll need a few programs to step up their game and get more of a commitment from administrations with setting non-conference scheduling standards (less cupcake sub-250-275 D1s games). We'd need the mediocre programs to step up their games and consistently become a Top 125-175 programs, which is a tall ask but is realistic if schools make the right hires and retain good coaches.
Quote from: wh on December 02, 2017, 12:45:53 PM
Quote from: bbtds on December 02, 2017, 11:23:51 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 30, 2017, 03:44:15 PMat-large birth
FYI, it's "at large berth."
It depends on the context. For Valpo, it would be our at-large "birth." Long past full-term, I might add.
My thinking of an "at large birth" would be a woman with a......................oh, never mind............that one almost got away from me.
I agree with bbtds - the committee has NOT done a good job of picking watchable TV matchups in the first round. Kansas State vs Wake Forest in the First Four... how is that intruiging at all? The best mid majors always get the 7v10 game against each other and then have to play a powerhouse 2 seed in the next round. Twice Wichita State and Kentucky played each other in the round of 32, both of which seemed like they should have been played much later in the tournament.
agibson is right - the problem is, the committee is fixated on a flawed metric: quantity of "top" wins. The committee knows that RPI itself is a poor metric, but instead of addressing the shortcomings of RPI, they DOUBLE DOWN on it and use even stupider metrics like quantity of top 25 RPI wins. The methodology is irrational, and it isn't indicative of past performance or season success. Having a 12 seed be favorited over a 5 seed by Vegas is flat-out unacceptable. I do think they'll eventually fix the situation. Look at the old BCS system: NOBODY was happy with it, and they were throwing away money by keeping the old system going. They eventually fixed it and a bunch of positive consequences have arisen from the new system, like the increase of good early neutral field matchups, a big 10 championship game, and a more interesting championship week between teams with more than 0 losses.
[tweet]937053802997284864[/tweet]
[tweet]937048766527315968[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/937084014145323008
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/937126869962338304
Only 13 teams remain undefeated. Valpo is in good company. I would love to see the athletics budgets for each of these schools.
Enjoy while it lasts!
Arizona State
Duke
Florida State
Georgetown
Kansas
Miami
Mississippi State
Nevada
TCU
Texas A&M
Virginia
Valparaiso
Villanova
The \\//s have it! And we should be listed first in alphabetical order, too.
Quote from: a3uge on December 02, 2017, 02:11:07 PMI agree with bbtds
I'm going to show this to my wife and say I was right at least one time this week. ;)
Quote from: valpopal on December 03, 2017, 11:11:45 AMOnly 13 teams remain undefeated. Valpo is in good company. I would love to see the athletics budgets for each of these schools. Enjoy while it lasts! Arizona State Duke Florida State Georgetown Kansas Miami Mississippi State Nevada TCU Texas A&M Virginia Valparaiso Villanova
Valpo's budget is easily the smallest and is the only school outside of what Mark Adams calls the "elite 8" conferences (conferences that have received an at-large bid within the last four years if my memory is correct ).
Quote from: VU2014 on December 02, 2017, 01:01:43 PMget more of a commitment from administrations with setting non-conference scheduling standards (less cupcake sub-250-275 D1s games). We'd need the mediocre programs to step up their games and consistently become a Top 125-175 programs,
I think there probably are rational scheduling guidelines, but I'm not sure this is it. Winning a home game against RPI 300 may hurt -your- RPI but your strong W/L record will help the league. Avoid scheduling unwinnable games, and find a reasonable balance that gives the right teams a shot at an at-large resumeee and everybody a shot at a strong non-conference W/L record. If your team is strong enough that you're sure you can do that while avoiding teams below RPI 200, fine. I'm sure putting this balance together is tricky, but it may be that the league can help, and that a lot of teams can do better.
Undefeated team next games...Valpo will not be the only undefeated team in the country after Thursday's game.
Arizona State does not play until Friday vs. St. Johns in tournament in LA
Sunday-Today
Georgetown RPI 125, SOS 347, plays winless Coppin State
Mississippi State hosts Dayton
Monday:
Florida State plays @ Florida
Tuesday:
Duke hosts St. Francis-PA
Nevada plays at Texas Tech
TCU hosts SMA
Texas A&M plays Arizona in tournament in Phoenix
Virginia plays at West Virginia
Villanova plays Gonzaga in tournament in NYC
Wednesday
Florida State hosts Loyola Md
Thursday
Georgetown plays winless Howard, yes an action packed week for the Hoyas.... the 6 teams they have beaten have a combined 8 wins.
That's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
Valpo up to #83 in KenPom 2nd highest in the MVC to Missouri State at #80.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PM
That's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
Isn't this Patrick Ewing's first season as HBBC? I think they are easing him into the job.
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 03, 2017, 02:39:53 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PMThat's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
Isn't this Patrick Ewing's first season as HBBC? I think they are easing him into the job.
I get that but come on. There's easing somebody into a new job and then there's whatever that schedule is. Anyone literally anyone could coach Georgetown to an undefeated record against that level of opposition.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 03, 2017, 02:39:53 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PMThat's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
Isn't this Patrick Ewing's first season as HBBC? I think they are easing him into the job.
I get that but come on. There's easing somebody into a new job and then there's whatever that schedule is. Anyone literally anyone could coach Georgetown to an undefeated record against that level of opposition.
Has nothing to doing with easing into the job. It has everything to do with that they know they have a bad roster and will get demolished in Conference play in the big east. This has more to do with not wanting to get embarrassed with a losing record and trying to have to recruit with an atrocious record.
That schedule is embarrassing beyond belief. If you want to call yourself a "blue-blood" program then you should never schedule like this. There is no excuse. They deserved to be called out and mocked for it.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/vX9WcCiWwUF7G/giphy.webp)
Let's have a sing-along (To the tune of the Georgetown fight song)
It's been so long since last they won
They're down, my goodness, they're down
Their schedule is a terrible one.
They're down, my goodness, they're down
There goes old Georgetown
Making their fans frown
Soon they will lose ground
They're down, my goodness, they're down
They're down, my goodness, they're down
Oh bah bah bah great shame on Georgetown
Playing nobody today
With great coaching they were blessed
Had the team among the best
But tough times they now befall the blue and gray.
We've heard their loyal fans around DC
Brag and boast about their grand tradition
"We're a blue blood," they yell
But they don't schedule well
The Little Sisters of the Poor is not a good opponent
Themselves from a tournament they tossed
It's clear that this program is afraid to take a loss
But the ill of all the ills of the program today
Is the Hoya! Hoya! Lax-a schedule
That the program made.
It's been so long since last they won
They're down, my goodness, they're down
Their schedule is a terrible one.
They're down, my goodness, they're down
There goes old Georgetown
Tough games they turn down
See how they lose ground
They're down, my goodness, they're down
They're down, my goodness, they're down
They're down, my goodness, they're down
GU, unfortunately, made an emotional/legacy (the Thompson Tree) decision on Patrick Patrick is a good man and was a great player. He is not, however, A BE/P-5 coach. That level requires a high intensity, quick reacting leader and recruiter. And you better be good at the Xs and Os. Ewing is not built that way. He will get eaten up over the next 2 years. I say two years because that is all they will give him.
Haslametrics ranks Valpo #115. It's early and haslametrics puts a heavy emphasis on SOS compared to other metric systems. It's actually one of the better analytical ranking systems, imo. Utah State is ranked 83rd which makes no sense but they've played a much tougher schedule then us.
MVC Rankings: http://haslametrics.com/ratings.php
45 Northern Iowa (6-2)
51 S Illinois (4-2) ???
67 Missouri State (7-2)
99 Loyola-Chicago (8-1)
115 Valparaiso (8-0)
127 Bradley (7-1)
149 Indiana State (3-4)
151 Evansville (6-2)
168 Illinois State (4-4)
216 Drake (4-3)
http://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=5371
Analysis: Even though they sport a very impressive win percentage, Valparaiso is considered by this site to be nothing more than a team that is slightly above-average. They are ranked #115 (out of 351) in the most recent Haslametrics ratings and have a record of 8-0. With a strength-of-schedule rating of 0.267 (which ranks 338th nationally), they've also had one of the softest schedules in all of college basketball.
Valparaiso has a fairly effective defensive attack. Occupying the #41 slot in our defensive efficiency ratings, they will allow about 89 points for every 100 possessions vs. AO. Valparaiso is a solid rebounding team that will deny the opposition chances to score off of offensive rebounds. They have a rating of 10.46 vs. AO in potential points allowed off of second chances (ranked 45th in the country). Valparaiso also boasts one of the better overall defensive field goal percentages in the country. The team ranks #46 nationally in field goal percentage allowed, as AO only makes good on about 39.4% of their total attempts from the floor.
Unfortunately, Valparaiso is not even remotely close to being as good on offense as they are on defense. The team is ranked 227th in offensive efficiency, scoring about 97 points every 100 possessions vs. AO. Valparaiso is one of the least accurate teams when shooting from long-distance. They are ranked eighth from the bottom in three-point field goal percentage nationally and make just 22.6% of their attempts from long vs. AO.
VuLB62, sorry to disagree with you but Patrick Ewing was an excellent choice for Georgetown and he has the coaching chops from being an NBA assistant for many years now. He has thrown himself into this job and is working his tail off on recruiting etc. Ewing has played and coached with many great coaches over his playing and coaching years. He also was an Econ major in college and interned on the Hill. I think he can figure out X's and O's. X's and O's aren't that complicated. Patrick should have been a HC somewhere college or pros by now. There seems to be a bias against Big Men. Bill Cartwright is another who should get a shot, too.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 04, 2017, 12:31:38 AM
Haslametrics ranks Valpo #115. It's early and haslametrics puts a heavy emphasis on SOS compared to other metric systems. It's actually one of the better analytical ranking systems, imo. Utah State is ranked 83rd which makes no sense but they've played a much tougher schedule then us.
MVC Rankings: http://haslametrics.com/ratings.php
45 Northern Iowa (6-2)
51 S Illinois (4-2) ???
67 Missouri State (7-2)
99 Loyola-Chicago (8-1)
115 Valparaiso (8-0)
127 Bradley (7-1)
149 Indiana State (3-4)
151 Evansville (6-2)
168 Illinois State (4-4)
216 Drake (4-3)
http://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=5371
Analysis: Even though they sport a very impressive win percentage, Valparaiso is considered by this site to be nothing more than a team that is slightly above-average. They are ranked #115 (out of 351) in the most recent Haslametrics ratings and have a record of 8-0. With a strength-of-schedule rating of 0.267 (which ranks 338th nationally), they've also had one of the softest schedules in all of college basketball.
Valparaiso has a fairly effective defensive attack. Occupying the #41 slot in our defensive efficiency ratings, they will allow about 89 points for every 100 possessions vs. AO. Valparaiso is a solid rebounding team that will deny the opposition chances to score off of offensive rebounds. They have a rating of 10.46 vs. AO in potential points allowed off of second chances (ranked 45th in the country). Valparaiso also boasts one of the better overall defensive field goal percentages in the country. The team ranks #46 nationally in field goal percentage allowed, as AO only makes good on about 39.4% of their total attempts from the floor.
Unfortunately, Valparaiso is not even remotely close to being as good on offense as they are on defense. The team is ranked 227th in offensive efficiency, scoring about 97 points every 100 possessions vs. AO. Valparaiso is one of the least accurate teams when shooting from long-distance. They are ranked eighth from the bottom in three-point field goal percentage nationally and make just 22.6% of their attempts from long vs. AO.
Good post, I was unaware of these rankings. I mostly agree with the descriptive analysis, as our defense seems to be our greatest asset.
Though offense this early in the season, was to be expected. No matter how you slice it, our athleticism gets us "paint points" and free throws.
Really hoping we can bring our 3-pt % into the 36-39% range as a team. I've done no analysis of team % from deep, but that seems to be a healthy range.
Make no mistake, it was a reach to call us a good 3-pt % team pre-season and it's playing out as such. Someone made a great point the other day that Burton doesn't run to get open, so if he's our best by % then he will be lucky to uncork 3 attempts a game if he doesn't hustle. Now some of that is coaches offensive play calling, but I'm pretty sure Tevon could teach him a thing or two.
Again, young team and offense is the last segment to gel, still hopeful we can bring 21+ wins home.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PMThat's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PMThat's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
A fan of a program with an SOS of 260+ in Warren Nolan calling anyone's SOS disgraceful is ironic.
Quote from: UNIFTW on December 04, 2017, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PMThat's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PMThat's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
A fan of a program with an SOS of 260+ in Warren Nolan calling anyone's SOS disgraceful is ironic.
The SOS will go up considerably after road games against Purdue, Northwestern and Ball State the next 2 weeks.
We also don't call ourselves a "blue-blood" program like Hoyas do. Valpo's schedule in the early going hasn't been great but it isn't Georgetown bad either.
Implying that I haven't been critical of this year's nonconference schedule. I've said constantly that Valpo needs to step it up and will continue to do so until they do. The OVERWHELMING majority of the fanbase feels this way. I personally have said many times that UNI is a template we can and should strive to emulate in as many ways as possible. But what you're missing here is context. There's a bit of a difference between Valpo scheduling a bit on the weaker side of things and freaking GEORGETOWN doing the same (their schedule has to be even weaker than ours). Valpo needs to do better we all acknowledge this but Georgetown a so-called blue blood absolutely deserves to be called out by anyone and everyone when they trot out this slop and call it a schedule. I'm amazed that you don't see the difference.
Valpo is receiving AP Top 25 votes.
I'm going to be real honest and admit I don't think we're a true Top 25 team, but I'm still excited to see us getting respect.
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/937723073859645440
https://twitter.com/LukeDeCock/status/937675908537831431
Luke DeCock's AP Top 25 basketball poll ballot: Week 4
BY LUKE DECOCK
DECEMBER 04, 2017 08:13 AM
Duke's still No. 1 and the core of the top 10 remains the same, minus Cincinnati. The biggest mover was Miami (after a good win at Minnesota) but I still have Virginia slightly ahead, as I have all season. I expect I'll remain higher on Nevada than other voters this week, although if Nevada beats Texas Tech and TCU this week, there will be no shortage of believers then.
And after erroneously voting Xavier 12th last week, the Musketeers rewarded my accidentally misplaced faith with big wins over Baylor and Cincinnati to move from 21st, where they should have been, to (a more appropriate) 15th. Cincinnati takes a big fall from fourth after losing to Xavier in the first tough game the Bearcats played. My faith in them was legitimately misplaced and it's tough to put them ahead of Xavier or Arizona State (which beat Xavier).
Valparaiso gets the nod at 25, which may be a week early; the 8-0 Crusaders will need to beat Purdue on Thursday to justify that position.
MY TOP 25
1. Duke (Last week: 1)
2. Kansas (2)
3. Villanova (3)
4. Michigan State (5)
5. Texas A&M (6)
6. Kentucky (8)
7. Florida (9)
8. Notre Dame (7)
9. North Carolina (10)
10. Wichita State (11)
11. Virginia (14)
12. Miami (17)
13. West Virginia (15)
14. Gonzaga (16)
15. Xavier (12*)
16. Seton Hall (21)
17. Nevada (19)
18. Arizona State (NR)
19. Cincinnati (4)
20. TCU (24)
21. Minnesota (20)
22. Tennessee (NR)
23. Baylor (13)
24. Purdue (NR)
25. Valparaiso (NR)
OUT: Louisville (18), Southern Cal (22), Alabama (23), Texas Tech (25)
*-Xavier was erroneously placed at 12 instead of 21 on my ballot last week.
Sports columnist Luke DeCock: 919-829-8947, ldecock@newsobserver.com, @Luke DeCock
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 04, 2017, 10:24:47 AMImplying that I haven't been critical of this year's nonconference schedule. I've said constantly that Valpo needs to step it up and will continue to do so until they do. The OVERWHELMING majority of the fanbase feels this way. I personally have said many times that UNI is a template we can and should strive to emulate in as many ways as possible. But what you're missing here is context. There's a bit of a difference between Valpo scheduling a bit on the weaker side of things and freaking GEORGETOWN doing the same (their schedule has to be even weaker than ours). Valpo needs to do better we all acknowledge this but Georgetown a so-called blue blood absolutely deserves to be called out by anyone and everyone when they trot out this slop and call it a schedule. I'm amazed that you don't see the difference.
The reason given here, on social media, and MVCFans for the weak schedule has been new coach, lost best player, new players that are untested, etc...
How is that different than Georgetown?
New coach: Check - in fact he's never been a college coach at all, let alone a HC
New players: 2 of the top 7 players getting minutes at Georgetown are true freshman. Of the 5 returners they combined for 27 points per game last year. Gone from last years G'town team are the teams leading, second, 5th, 7th 8th and 9th scorers
While they may be a blue blood they were 14-18 last year and 15-18 the year before that. I'm not excusing their schedule, what I'm saying is it's hypocritical of a team who is using those reasons as the validation for the schedule that is in the bottom 25% of all D1 schedules to say that same reasoning also doesn't apply to another program in potential the same exact situation.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 04, 2017, 10:24:47 AMThere's a bit of a difference between Valpo scheduling a bit on the weaker side of things and freaking GEORGETOWN doing the same (their schedule has to be even weaker than ours).
RPI (Warren Nolan) and KenPom give Georgetown the weakest schedule, to this point, in the country. At least on KenPom it's by a considerable margin weaker than anyone else. 351st. KenPom has Valpo at 316 and RPI has us at about 260.
It would be hypocritical of a person who actually made or supported the way Valpo scheduled to make these comments but I thought was weak and disappointing from the jump and so did most of VU's fanbase on here. There's very little hypocrisy among us fans.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 04, 2017, 10:47:02 AM
Valpo is receiving AP Top 25 votes.
I'm going to be real honest and admit I don't think we're a true Top 25 team, but I'm still excited to see us getting respect.
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/937723073859645440
Nice! I'm not surprised that we're getting at least some looks, nationally. Are we really top 25? No, probably not. But, 8-0 makes us intriguing. Unfortunately, on the road against a top 25 is probably (a little) too tough of a test to be fair. But, let's enjoy it for a week. It's too bad we didn't get Northwestern first.
Osipoff seems to already have the coaches' poll, and we're not represented there, apparently not even receiving votes.
The coaches' poll makes it up on ESPN.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2018/week/5/seasontype/2
Boise State gets a vote.
Osipoff reports Purdue is 21/21.
Quote from: agibson on December 04, 2017, 11:51:16 AM
The coaches' poll makes it up on ESPN.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2018/week/5/seasontype/2
And there's the AP. Five points for Valpo! Not bad!
(Only four for Georgetown. None for Boise State in the AP. Valpo wasn't even "almost famous" for Seth Davis.)
(All 13 of the unbeaten teams are receiving votes in the AP poll. Georgetown the least. Looks like 10 of them are receiving votes in the coaches' poll.)
With Purdue being ranked 21, I can't help but recall our success against teams ranked 21 in the past year. Rhode Island was ranked when 21 when they came to the ARC last year.
Quote from: UNIFTW on December 04, 2017, 10:10:43 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PMThat's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 03, 2017, 01:48:25 PMThat's disgraceful. Whoever put that schedule together for the Hoyas (and decided to pull them out of the PK80 should be ashamed of themselves.
A fan of a program with an SOS of 260+ in Warren Nolan calling anyone's SOS disgraceful is ironic.
Let's grab the crystal ball and find out where SOS is going to shake out at season's end:
Per http://www.rpiforecast.com/team.html
Better
SOS Than
47 87% UNI
57 84% Illinois State
77 78% Indiana State
84 76% Evansville
101 71% SIU
102 71% Missouri State
109 69% Loyola
114 67% Valpo
115 67% Drake
117 67% Bradley
UNI's is exceptional among Mid Majors - only 4 non-P5/BE teams are higher.
Every team in the MVC is in the top one-third of all D-1 programs, and as good or better than many so-called mid-major powerhouses. For example: Boise State's Expected SOS is 97; Gonzaga's is 110; St. Mary's is 136.
This whole SOS hand wringing discussion this early in the season is much ado about nothing. It is what it is, and what it is isn't bad by any means. The MVC just needs to keep racking up wins and the rest will take care of itself.
Can someone tell @happeninghoops to chill on twitter? He's making a big fuss on twitter about the AP votes on twitter and getting into it with Mid-Madness over not being ranked higher in their polls. I'd like us to maintain our reputation of being a reasonable and intelligent fan-base. Mid-Madness just questioned if we are the next OU twitter... thats a comparison that we want to avoid...
The AP votes are nice but I don't actually think we're a Top 25 team. We still need to prove it against Purdue and Northwestern, before we start getting more national respect. Even if we look good against Purdue and Northwestern in potential losses, strong performances would go a long way in terms of getting national attention and respect.
It's ok to be excited but let's keep level heads.
Adding to the G-Town discussion, G-Town followed the historic Big Least scheduling formula, go 10-1, 9-2 or better in the OOC part of the schedule and then you are playing lots of other conference schools following that same model and your RPIs will look better than other teams and you're "name recognition" will help you when you are on the bubble. Syracuse, G-Town, ND and others had very low OOC SOS. It is not dissimilar to BIG10 schools. Part of this is you want to fill the bigger arenas in the major markets you play in with wins -- that makes everyone happy. Capital One (and Capital Centre before that), MSG, Carrier Dome, etc. Perusing G-Town OOC schedules under JTIII finds such fun schools in 13-14 as Wright St, Northeastern, Lipscomb, High Pt, Colgate, Elon and FIU or in 15-16 Radford, Bryant, UMES, Brown, UNC-W, Monmouth, UNC-A and Charlotte. Or, how about 07-08 W&M, Ball St, ODU, Fairfield, J'ville, Radford, American and Fordham. Now G-Town was in some nice tourneys, TV games and one-and-ones with Dukes and other high major schools but go 2-2 or even 1-3 in those and with a .500 record in Big Least, suddenly you are climbing off bubble if you win a home game against Syracuse, Louisville or ND.
The New Big East has changed that a bit. JTIII's scheduling actually caught up to him (plus decline in recruiting). There are different scheduling methods to enhance your RPI (which was the measuring stick). That formula is very win focused plus your opponents record. When 10-2 G-Town played 10-2 ND, no one is looking at their SOS for RPI. One will be 10-3 and the other 11-2 with those records factoring into their overall RPI.
If a Valpo has a 9-3 OOC but then starts playing the YSUs of the world (and worse in the old Mid-Con) with their 3-10 records, the RPI craters. Hence, MVC raises our RPI not because of SOS, but because of the records of the other teams. We want everyone to have nice OOC records as much as whom they played. With MVC, as long as folks schedule winnable records, it benefits the entire conference. Other ranking systems are better because it does look at quality wins/losses. H/A, etc.
I was never a fan of the old Big Least scheduling tactics but they were beating the system (and it often led to upsets that weren't really upsets).
Beat Northwestern, not because it's a BIG school, but because they will have a decent record (and the name looks good). Lose to a UC-R and it's bad more because they will 10-18 on the season and that's what drags the RPI down. Purdue is a good game if we have a good record whether we win or lose because it will boost the RPI. Lose too many of those and then it doesn't matter. Games against UNC or Duke in past years were actually better for the RPI.
VU2014, The same thought went through my head. If I were on Twitter I would have said something. Dude needs to cool it. I appreciate his passion his knowledge and what he's building with his show and Twitter account but he's making the fanbase look bad It's a terrible look for us on a widely-read national platform. 8-0 is great but let's be honest we haven't beaten anybody we shouldn't have yet and until we do we don't really deserve to be ranked too highly on any meaningful or substantial poll. Not all records are created equal. Once we earn that right with some top quality wins then we can revisit this discussion and the national outlets will likely be more amenable to listening to us.
https://twitter.com/TheRealHalK/status/937777351198461952
https://twitter.com/MrMattCraig/status/937741223787458561
Quote from: wh on November 27, 2017, 07:37:15 PM
Valpo is #8 in the new CollegeInsider.com poll. We jumped 10 spots in a week.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
Per tradition, since they don't archive them, here are last week's mid-major coaches poll results
Update: November 27th, 2017
RECORD POINTS PREVIOUS
1. Gonzaga (30) 5-1 774 1 West Coast
2. Vermont 5-1 726 3 America East
3. Saint Mary's (1) 5-2 715 2 West Coast
4. UT Arlington 4-1 680 4 Sun Belt
5. Albany 6-0 606 8 America East
6. Belmont 4-2 581 6 Ohio Valley
7. Loyola Chicago 7-0 505 17 Missouri Valley
8. Valparaiso 7-0 484 18 Missouri Valley
9. Charleston 4-2 453 4 Colonial
10. BYU 4-2 429 10 West Coast
11. Northern Kentucky 4-2 403 11 Horizon
12. Louisiana 4-2 395 12 Sun Belt
13. FGCU 5-2 378 13 Atlantic Sun
14. South Dakota State 6-2 324 14 Summit
15. Oakland 2-3 309 7 Horizon
16. Mercer 5-2 294 16 Southern
17. Georgia Southern 5-2 252 9 Sun Belt
18. Missouri State 5-2 179 21 Missouri Valley
19. Northern Iowa 5-2 166 NR Missouri Valley
20. Bucknell 3-4 148 NR Patriot
21. Furman 4-2 126 19 Southern
22. Georgia State 4-2 122 20 Sun Belt
23. Towson 5-1 89 NR Colonial
24. Eastern Michigan 5-1 88 22 Mid-American
25. San Diego 5-0 85 NR West Coast
OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: New Mexico State 70, Harvard 58, UNC Asheville 54, Bradley 44, Evansville 40, Toledo 44, Portland State 38, Buffalo 36, South Dakota 33, Grand Canyon 32, North Carolina A&T 31, Central Michigan 29, Illinois State 27, Tennessee Tech 26, Kent State 22, Stephen F. Austin 21, Princeton 19, Milwaukee 13, Rider 13, Monmouth 12, Akron 10, Bowling Green 9, Jacksonville State 8, UC Irvine 8, UC Santa Barbara 8, Drake 7, Iona 6, North Dakota 6, Yale 5, Utah Valley 5, Winthrop 4, ETSU 3, Northern Colorado 3, Navy 2, Wagner 2, Western Michigan 2, Idaho 1, Liberty 1, Murray State 1, San Francisco 1.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 04, 2017, 02:02:00 PM
https://twitter.com/MrMattCraig/status/937741223787458561
I can't tell if this means we're in his top 25. Or that he's just not going to list 11-25 until Friday.
The new mid-major madness is out too
https://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/12/4/16734834/mid-major-madness-power-rankings-boise-state-broncos-valparaiso-western-kentucky
With UNI still top-10, Missouri State vaulting over Loyola who holds about steady, and us entering behind Loyola.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 04, 2017, 02:02:00 PM
https://twitter.com/TheRealHalK/status/937777351198461952
Like Paul says, Elton Alexander from the Cleveland Plains Dealer has voted for us before. His comment about Mississippi State is a little distressing. Looks like that game was actually a home game for MS State, so arguably no better than our win over Utah State. Looking at schedules and some rankings it looks like Valpo vs. MS State could be considered a toss-up. I don't think he should feel bad for ranking us above them. But, we can prove it Thursday.
DeCock in North Carolina and Mansch from Montana may be new to the Valpo bandwagon.
Here's the update.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
Valpo #5, with four Valley teams #15 and higher. And at least three others receiving consideration.
Update: December 4th, 2017
RECORD POINTS PREVIOUS
1. Gonzaga (31) 7-1 775 1 West Coast
2. UT Arlington 7-1 718 4 Sun Belt
3. Saint Mary's 6-2 716 3 West Coast
4. Vermont 6-2 677 2 America East
5. Valparaiso 8-0 606 8 Missouri Valley
6. Albany 8-1 595 5 America East
7. BYU 6-2 552 10 West Coast
8. Charleston 5-2 526 9 Colonial
9. Loyola Chicago 8-1 457 7 Missouri Valley
10. Northern Kentucky 6-2 429 11 Horizon
11. Louisiana 6-2 420 12 Sun Belt
12. Northern Iowa 4-2 384 19 Missouri Valley
13. Oakland 5-3 323 15 Horizon
14. Towson 8-1 317 23 Colonial
15. Missouri State 7-2 313 18 Missouri Valley
16. FGCU 6-3 291 13 Atlantic Sun
17. Georgia Southern 6-2 267 17 Sun Belt
18. Belmont 5-4 233 6 Ohio Valley
19. South Dakota State 7-3 214 14 Summit
20. Bucknell 4-5 184 20 Patriot
21. Mercer 5-3 143 16 Southern
22. Georgia State 5-2 135 22 Sun Belt
23. Furman 5-3 86 21 Southern
24. New Mexico State 6-1 80 NR Western Athletic
25. UC Davis 5-2 52 NR Big West
OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: South Dakota 51, Stephen F Austin 50, Central Michigan 46, Portland State 39, Grand Canyon 38, UNC Asheville 31, Jacksonville State 27, Eastern Michigan 26, Harvard 26, Illinois State 26, San Diego 23, Toledo 21, UC Santa Barbara 19, Northern Colorado 17, Bowling Green 15, Bradley 13, Monmouth 13, Evansville 12, Akron 11, Lamar 10, Murray State 9, Troy 9, UC Irvine 9, Navy 6, Tennessee Tech 6, Elon 5, Iona 5, Utah Valley 5, Kent State 3, Winthrop 3, Ball State 2, Buffalo 2, Idaho 1, North Carolina A&T 1, Central Connecticut State 1, Wagner 1.
Quote from: agibson on December 04, 2017, 05:52:31 PM
Here's the update.
http://www.collegeinsider.com/mens-mid-major-top-25.php
Valpo #5, with four Valley teams #15 and higher. And at least three others receiving consideration.
Update: December 4th, 2017
RECORD POINTS PREVIOUS
1. Gonzaga (31) 7-1 775 1 West Coast
2. UT Arlington 7-1 718 4 Sun Belt
3. Saint Mary's 6-2 716 3 West Coast
4. Vermont 6-2 677 2 America East
5. Valparaiso 8-0 606 8 Missouri Valley
6. Albany 8-1 595 5 America East
7. BYU 6-2 552 10 West Coast
8. Charleston 5-2 526 9 Colonial
9. Loyola Chicago 8-1 457 7 Missouri Valley
10. Northern Kentucky 6-2 429 11 Horizon
11. Louisiana 6-2 420 12 Sun Belt
12. Northern Iowa 4-2 384 19 Missouri Valley
13. Oakland 5-3 323 15 Horizon
14. Towson 8-1 317 23 Colonial
15. Missouri State 7-2 313 18 Missouri Valley
16. FGCU 6-3 291 13 Atlantic Sun
17. Georgia Southern 6-2 267 17 Sun Belt
18. Belmont 5-4 233 6 Ohio Valley
19. South Dakota State 7-3 214 14 Summit
20. Bucknell 4-5 184 20 Patriot
21. Mercer 5-3 143 16 Southern
22. Georgia State 5-2 135 22 Sun Belt
23. Furman 5-3 86 21 Southern
24. New Mexico State 6-1 80 NR Western Athletic
25. UC Davis 5-2 52 NR Big West
OTHERS RECEIVING VOTES: South Dakota 51, Stephen F Austin 50, Central Michigan 46, Portland State 39, Grand Canyon 38, UNC Asheville 31, Jacksonville State 27, Eastern Michigan 26, Harvard 26, Illinois State 26, San Diego 23, Toledo 21, UC Santa Barbara 19, Northern Colorado 17, Bowling Green 15, Bradley 13, Monmouth 13, Evansville 12, Akron 11, Lamar 10, Murray State 9, Troy 9, UC Irvine 9, Navy 6, Tennessee Tech 6, Elon 5, Iona 5, Utah Valley 5, Kent State 3, Winthrop 3, Ball State 2, Buffalo 2, Idaho 1, North Carolina A&T 1, Central Connecticut State 1, Wagner 1.
It appears that a cross section of mid major coaches holds the Valpo program in higher esteem than some of its own fans.
It would be interesting to have a sports poll that asks the question, who is the better college basketball coach? Patrick Ewing, Georgetown OR Matt Lottich, Valpo?
Let's be fair: the lack of A10 and MWC teams in this poll greatly benefits Valpo and the rest of the MVC That said the MVC and Valpo deserve all the love they're getting this year and more for their performance so far Just need to keep it going. Go Valpo! and Go MVC!
;D
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/938186147993411584
Just for fun, here's the KenPom before and after the Purdue loss.
before:
83 Valparaiso MVC 8-0 +7.70 103.7 150 96.0 42 72.6 63 +.056 103 -5.84 317 102.5 226 108.3 345 -5.84 316
after:
87 Valparaiso MVC 8-1 +6.83 102.7 175 95.8 38 72.8 57 +.154 16 -2.76 251 104.1 159 106.9 326 -2.76 247
(definitions on kenpom.com)
So, we only dropped four places. Albeit that's enough to fall to 4th in the MVC (MO St 73, Loyola 77, UNI 82). Our offense dropped a little. Our defensive rating actually _improved_. That's how much Pomeroy's formula thinks of Purdue's offense, apparently. Offensive Rating 116.9, 8th in the country. Apparently the #42 defense (Valpo) can give up 80 points to them and it actually counts as a better-than-expected defensive performance.
Our SOS jumped from 316th to 247th based on that one game. Now above Loyola and Evansville, not far below below Bradley.
Loyola with 5 points and UNI with 3 points in the AP poll. Nice to see a variety of Valley teams getting some love.
UNI's predicted RPI of 36 is pretty shiny. Would certainly be in the at-large discussion. Missouri State 59, Loyola 61, Valpo 67 aren't bad either.
KenPom now has Valpo at 107 following the Northwestern game RPI was 80 going in but that will surely fall a bit when those numbers are updated.
RPI to 98.
As for Pomeroy:
Quote from: agibson on December 08, 2017, 11:10:36 AMafter Purdue (but didn't change too much after Ball State, I think):
87 Valparaiso MVC 8-1 +6.83 102.7 175 95.8 38 72.8 57 +.154 16 -2.76 251 104.1 159 106.9 326 -2.76 247
Northwestern was our first really big hit.
107 Valparaiso MVC 8-3 +5.19 101.8 206 96.6 45 71.6 88 +.096 48 +0.76 158 105.6 88 104.9 246 +0.76 154
Offense threatens to fall below the mediocre range. Defense stays pretty strong, believe it or not (takes a pretty good hit on a PPG basis, but apparently there isn't that much competition among top-50 defensive teams). On the silver lining side, I guess, our SOS is finally a middle-of-the-pack 154.
(We fell out of the midmajormadness poll, no surprise. We stayed pretty strong in the Mid-Major Top 25 coaches' polll. Loyola 3, UNI 6, Valpo 11, and a ridiculous five teams from the Valley in the top 25.)
After the win last night Valpo now ranked 93/351 in the Sagarins while The Valley remains at 9th. Interestingly enough, The Summit is all the way up to 15th while the Horizon has fallen to 27th out of 32. That folks, is Low Major.
Thank goodness we got out. Shame on the Valpo fans who even considered or debated staying in the HL.
For the season...
Valpo still has the T-10th longest winning streak for the year, at 8 (tied with 5 others)
Valpo has the T-9th longest Home court winning streak at 13, tied with Bucknell, Kentucky and Wyoming.
OH, Chicago State has the top two games in the "Point Spread" category...
Purdue 111-42 (69)
Northwestern 96-31 (65)
I said it would be FUN to periodically look at this... well, the FUN part has gone away... but here's today's RealTimeRPI projection... who would have thought that SELA would be our best win so far? OR, that Santa Clara (#345) would be a real drag on the RPI? weird season.
11-15 at SIU Edwardsville 4-9 (0-2) 229 94-69 W
11-19 SE Louisiana 5-7 (2-0) 180 83-50 W
11-21 Samford 3-9 (1-0) 281 88-67 W
11-24 vs Kent St. 6-7 (1-0) 219 77-67 W
11-25 vs N.C. Wilmington 1-10 (0-1) 339 79-70 W
11-28 Utah St. 7-7 (1-1) 216 72-65 W
12-07 at Purdue 13-2 (2-0) 14 50-80 L
12-09 at Ball St. 9-4 (1-0) 103 70-71 L
12-14 at Northwestern 9-5 (1-1) 76 50-84 L
12-18 at Santa Clara 3-9 (1-1) 345 76-68 W
? 12-20 at UC Riverside 3-9 (0-0) 269 60-73 L
12-28 at Indiana St. 4-8 (1-1) 200 64-73 L
12-31 Missouri St. 12-3 (3-0) 56 50-67 L
01-03 at Bradley 10-4 (1-1) 136 64-76 L - Scouting
01-06 Southern Ill. 8-6 (1-1) 151 74-71 W - Scouting
01-10 Drake 7-7 (2-0) 158 81-73 W - Scouting
01-13 at Northern Iowa 6-6 (0-2) 81 59-75 L - Scouting
01-17 at Missouri St. 12-3 (3-0) 56 64-80 L - Scouting
01-21 Loyola Chicago 10-4 (1-2) 88 74-72 W - Scouting
01-24 Evansville 8-5 (0-2) 107 74-66 W - Scouting
01-27 at Illinois St. 7-6 (2-0) 65 74-80 L - Scouting
01-31 Indiana St. 4-8 (1-1) 200 81-68 W - Scouting
02-03 at Southern Ill. 8-6 (1-1) 151 66-79 L - Scouting
02-07 at Evansville 8-5 (0-2) 107 65-74 L - Scouting
02-11 Illinois St. 7-6 (2-0) 65 82-72 W - Scouting
02-14 at Loyola Chicago 10-4 (1-2) 88 66-80 L - Scouting
02-17 Bradley 10-4 (1-1) 136 72-68 W - Scouting
02-20 Northern Iowa 6-6 (0-2) 81 67-68 L - Scouting
02-24 at Drake 7-7 (2-0) 158 73-81 L - Scouting
Current Record: 7-6 (0-2)
GAMER Projected Record: 14-15 (7-11
updating this from today's list... they changed ONE game... we are now predicted to win the game at home against Northern Iowa...
02-20 Northern Iowa 6-9 (0-5) 147 68-66 W - Scouting
02-24 at Drake 9-8 (4-1) 149 71-81 L - Scouting
Current Record: 9-7 (2-3)
GAMER Projected Record: 15-14 (8-10)
realTimeRpi has us as 14-point UNDERDOGS at Northern Iowa
WarrenNolan has us as 3 point underdogs; the ELO computer says "Pick-em" at 59-59
For the first time that I've noticed, we're now at the bottom of the Valley in KenPom. 168. Which isn't bad for a conference bottom (at some point we were one of the top three conferences or so in the country in terms of "best weakest team"). Just behind 165 Drake and 167 ISU.
We'd still be 4th in the Horizon.
Super Bowl Sunday rankings... RealTimeRpi
52 Loyola Chicago 9-3 18-5 0.5787 152 0.5010
Up 31 From Last WeekUp 31 From Last Week +31 77 Illinois St. 7-5 12-11 0.5554 45 0.5655
Up 13 From Last WeekUp 13 From Last Week +13 89 Southern Ill. 8-4 15-9 0.5477 114 0.5203
Down 13 From Last WeekDown 13 From Last Week -13 97 Bradley 7-5 16-8 0.5454 153 0.5003
Down 2 From Last Week -2 115 Evansville 5-7 13-10 0.5331 101 0.5273
Down 29 From Last WeekDown 29 From Last Week -29 122 Missouri St. 5-7 14-10 0.5314 123 0.5162
Up 10 From Last WeekUp 10 From Last Week +10 147 Drake 7-5 12-12 0.5125 134 0.5100
Down 5 From Last Week -5 163 Indiana St. 6-6 9-13 0.5051 88 0.5357
Down 31 From Last WeekDown 31 From Last Week -31 164 Northern Iowa 3-9 9-13 0.5049 59 0.5584 RPI is the tiebreaker after Head-to-Head.
No Change from last week 187 Valparaiso 3-9 10-13 0.4923 142 0.5059
11-15 at SIU Edwardsville 8-15 (4-8) 250 94-69 W
11-19 SE Louisiana 11-10 (8-3) 211 83-50 W
11-21 Samford 6-17 (4-8) 291 88-67 W
11-24 vs Kent St. 11-11 (6-4) 155 77-67 W
11-25 vs N.C. Wilmington 5-17 (4-8) 287 79-70 W
11-28 Utah St. 12-11 (6-5) 146 72-65 W
12-07 at Purdue 23-2 (12-0) 7 50-80 L
12-09 at Ball St. 13-9 (5-5) 123 70-71 L
12-14 at Northwestern 13-10 (5-6) 95 50-84 L
12-18 at Santa Clara 7-15 (5-7) 274 76-68 W
?? 12-20 at UC Riverside 3-17 (0-8) 321 60-73 L
12-28 at Indiana St. 9-13 (6-6) 163 64-73 L
12-31 Missouri St. 14-10 (5-7) 122 50-67 L
01-03 at Bradley 16-8 (7-5) 97 71-80 L
01-06 Southern Ill. 15-9 (8-4) 89 83-72 W
01-10 Drake 12-12 (7-5) 147 77-60 W
01-13 at Northern Iowa 9-13 (3-9) 164 76-81 L
01-17 at Missouri St. 14-10 (5-7) 122 57-64 L
01-21 Loyola Chicago 18-5 (9-3) 52 54-70 L
01-24 Evansville 13-10 (5-7) 115 65-75 L
01-27 at Illinois St. 12-11 (7-5) 77 65-76 L
01-31 Indiana St. 9-13 (6-6) 163 69-63 W
02-03 at Southern Ill. 15-9 (8-4) 89 59-65 L
02-07 at Evansville 13-10 (5-7) 115 63-73 L - Scouting
02-11 Illinois St. 12-11 (7-5) 77 79-69 W - Scouting
02-14 at Loyola Chicago 18-5 (9-3) 52 60-78 L - Scouting
02-17 Bradley 16-8 (7-5) 97 69-66 W - Scouting
02-20 Northern Iowa 9-13 (3-9) 164 67-66 W - Scouting On Senior Day
02-24 at Drake 12-12 (7-5) 147 71-80 L - Scouting
Current Record: 10-13 (3-9) - D1 only
GAMER Projected Record: 13-16 (6-12)
For a game or so we had pushed to #9 in the MVC in the KenPom, ahead of Drake I think. After the latest game (for us and others), we're currently back in 10th. #172 overall.
5 schools 140-172, 4 schools 114-124, and Loyola 56.
No surprise here. We're a below average in offensive efficiency but we're slightly above average in defensive efficiency.
https://twitter.com/SynergySST/status/962418832915787778
... and no surprise that it took a deep-3 for Sparty to Boiler-down...which of course hurts Valpo's RPI...
our RPI feel from 192 to 196 TODAY...Thanks to Boilers, Wildcats and SIUE... Santa Clara DID pull the upset over San Diego and SELA beat McNeese in a pickem game... but alas... not enough...
Not that it really matters, but VU's RPI has risen to 181 (from 182 last week) with an SOS of 129.... Loyola has risen to 14 in the RPI, with an SOS of 93.
Quote from: talksalot on March 26, 2018, 04:42:25 PM
Not that it really matters, but VU's RPI has risen to 181 (from 182 last week) with an SOS of 129.... Loyola has risen to 14 in the RPI, with an SOS of 93.
I have been watching our rise. Our season started strong, ended competitive, and was "god awful" during the middle Burtonless transition.
A couple years from now I will remember this 181 RPI benchmark and associate it with some solid February performances. In contrast our Feb 2014 ending RPI of 193 ?? will reflect as being much less impressive. I think a lot of foundational groundwork was accomplished in our last 10 games.
Here toward the end of the post-season and in the middle of Loyola's historic run I thought it would be fun to take a look at rankings.
March 5, the day after the MVC final, was the day of the last coaches poll. Loyola sat #28 (19 points), picking up votes for the fifth consecutive week. They had some early season votes, presumably during their unbeaten phase, like we did. In the MidMajor top 25 they were behind Gonzaga and St. Mary's. In the AP they were 29th.
The AP and the MidMajor updated March 12, with no additional games played for Loyola. Loyola rose to 27th and 2nd.
I think the AP will vote one more time after the NCAA final. It'll be interesting to see where Loyola winds up!
In the Kenpom we did finish the season above Drake (150 to their 157). Loyola's currently at 30. (Against the other final four teams 1, 7, 8). In the Horizon, only Northern Kentucky (92) and Wright State (138) finished above us.
In the MidMajor Top 25 Loyola was actually the only MVC to get even a vote in their final poll. Wright State finished 20th, Northern Kentucky 25th
Good dose of perspective on our season. Thanks!
Quote from: agibson on March 27, 2018, 11:04:47 AMI think the AP will vote one more time after the NCAA final. It'll be interesting to see where Loyola winds up!
Loyola did get #7 in the post-season coaches poll. Their only ranking of the season (previous high was 37/36 early, probably while still undefeated, and 27/28 late).
They did also get #1 in the mid-major coaches poll, though one coach still picked Gonzaga over them.