I have read numerous opinions posted here about our basketball facilities. You know, stuff like, "our coaches do an incredible job given the facilities at least as they compare to other Horizon league teams"... or some such thing.
Call me naive, call me uninformed, call me whatever, but, I just don't get it. Is it the ARC as a venue? Too small, "high school like", so we don't attract top talent? Is it the practice venue, so the Hilltop renovation just doesn't cut it? Is it the locker room? Is it the weight training facility? What is it that will satisfy everybody and if we had it, would we be better? Really better--like in spending the millions suggested to meet the affore mentioned inadequacies.
So, let's look around the league. Loyola has a brand new arena. How did that work out for them? Wright State apparently has the best practice facility. Working for them? For that matter think outside the league. How about Nebraska with flat screens on the inside of the toilets. Great year for them.
This arms race has to stop and I think Valpo is the prime example of why. Let's start with the ARC. Should it be remodeled? Sure. Should it seat 10,000 or 12,000 or whatever the "best" in the league seats? Ridiculous. Ray McCallum said it best when he said that the ARC provides the best home court advantage in the conference. I could go on.
The point is, the players have come, and they continue to come not because of adjustable height baskets or tv's in the can. They come because of the coaches, the education and the history, not in spite of all the inadequacies.
We got Ryan Broekhoff to come half way around the world to play for us. I don't think he would have considered Cleveland State because their gym seats more people.
I think the key is getting recruits to visit when the place is packed to witness first hand that home court advantage. Upgrading the facilities is not in the immediate future so showing them in person what it is like when the ARC is full of Crusader fans is our advantage in recruiting.
I tend to agree. For the type of recruit we are wanting, they aren't usually the type that is expecting 10,000-12,000 people in the stands. We upgraded the scoreboard, provide an intimate atmosphere that players feed off of, and have a great supporting staff. Let our opponents call our gym a 'high school gym,' as it isn't like many of them are able to win at the ARC, so it is doing what any school would hope for...
This seems the perfect time for VU to make a commitment to a specific upgrade in the athletic facilities, especially for basketball, which is the one sport that receives significant national attention every year and thus would garner fine returns in promotion of the university as a whole.
Look at the combination of factors that make this an ideal situation for upgrading. The university has just purchased a large parcel of land where a first class facility could be built. The team has achieved success as regular season champions of the Horizon League for the first time, and the prospects for next year are excellent. The Crusaders have a new coach who has proven himself and whom the university would like to keep in the future, someone whose image would be complemented by a new or renovated arena.
Loyola has shown how a terrific modern facility could be built while maintaining an intimate atmosphere. In fact, the capacity for the Gentile Arena is about the same as that of the ARC. The ability to recruit players would be enhanced, and the possibility of reinvigorating local support, especially with some local recruits beginning in 2013, would be a benefit.
As President Heckler once stated: "We have to determine the best long term strategy to enhance our vibrant and competitive basketball programs, and to do that in a away that will attract accomplished scholar-athletes to Valpo."
My understanding from what I had either read or heard somewhere was that as head coach Homer asked more than once for improved facilities for basketball. He apparently saw needs he deemed important and asked for improvements? I would personally think his credentials and resume as head coach and recruiting "closer" would carry a lot of weight, at least they would for me. I could only guess that Bryce sees needs as well, though I've not read or heard anything to verify that?
The capital improvements I suggest are needed are more for fan comfort than anything. Some examples I would rank high in any update would be chairback seating w/cup holders on the entire lower level, more concession areas, more restrooms, etc. I think the locker room areas have been remodeled and updated over the last several years, so perhaps they are good as is? Is the media room too small? Perhaps one of our board experts could speak to that. Based on attendance I don't think we need a larger arena in terms of seating capacity. I'd suggest the 5,000-7,000 range, depending on various architectural and construction issues, constraints, costs. I would consider improvements an investment rather than an expense, as the exposure Valpo gets from being on local or national cable tv is certainly valuable, though hard to measure. So many people still know of Valpo for it's basketball program. It is a tool that we should or maybe already do utilize as one way to get our foot in the door for not only basketball recruiting targets, but all potential students.
If you guys watched the HLN interview with Homer, he talked President Heckler and Mark LeBarbera being committed to facilities and understanding the importance of them. Then he mentioned plans (whatever time period that means) to eventually renovate the ARC or build a new facility. He also mentioned plans for a track fieldhouse on the current site of the hospital.
I too was wondering what the negatives were, especially when I read that Loyola's newly rennovated Gentile Center held around 5000 (a little less than the ARC). I've only been in the ARC a couple of times over the years (being from New England and not getting out there much), but I was pretty impressed considering I was used to the old Brown Gym that fit 4000 or so back in the late 60s. But I also kept reading here about how the facility was not up to par, so I just went along with what I thought was the prevailing sentiment (see my post under the Coach Powell string). 5600 screaming fans right on top of the court IS a tremendous advantage. I also thought the BB office area was pretty decent as well. Being a former FB and Track guy with a very fervent interest in soccer, I naturally focus on those facilities which ARE inadequate for a D-1 and FCS university. But I also see a relationship among all sports and their respective facilities as making Valpo more (or less) attractive to athletes because of the overall sense of the university's commitment to the whole program that is reflected. Kids can pretty much figure that out. :twocents:
Was it Coach Ray McCallum or Player Ray that made the comment. Whichever it was...it is a great point. The ARC is a little weird for a college facility, but it is loud.
Average attendance this year was about 3500. We can pack 5600 in. That is an average of 62%.
I am not sure if this university, community, and region will support a larger facility.
Now, if we MUST have one, then the key is to have a big time contributor write a big check for naming rights, probably an alum that made big $$$ and hopefully has a tie to the basketball program. Anyone know any men or women qualified?
Not sure how much something like this would cost, but my guess is $20 million. A check for $10 would probably get the ball rolling.
lowposter
IMO, the ARC is hot garbage. The seating configuration is terrible. It's better aligned for football or a high school basketball facility. Can a fan purchase seats behind any of the baskets? No. There are no boxes or suites. There should be, so that VU can attract solid corporate sponsorship to increase its revenue. One major concession stand for the entire joint. What could be more evident of a quality D-I facility than a walking track that runs right through the core of the "arena". I could go on and on, but I'm not going to.
As far as capacity, 7-7,500 would be perfect. You don't have to sell out VU games to justify the size. With a 7K facility, VU puts a stranglehold on such a event holding locale in the entire NW Indiana region. Concerts, sporting events, hell even congregate religious events could be held at such a facility comfortably. All are rentable events. You think Wright State uses the Nutter Center only for their team's basketball games? Give me a break. But of course, on this board, we're only concerned about shortsighted things like the justification of size based on how many people come to games, or about how wonderful it was that the University put up video boards that replaced scoreboards from the Reagan administration.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 09, 2012, 03:10:37 PM
IMO, the ARC is hot garbage. The seating configuration is terrible. It's better aligned for football or a high school basketball facility. Can a fan purchase seats behind any of the baskets? No. There are no boxes or suites. There should be, so that VU can attract solid corporate sponsorship to increase its revenue. One major concession stand for the entire joint. What could be more evident of a quality D-I facility than a walking track that runs right through the core of the "arena". I could go on and on, but I'm not going to.
As far as capacity, 7-7,500 would be perfect. You don't have to sell out VU games to justify the size. With a 7K facility, VU puts a stranglehold on such a event holding locale in the entire NW Indiana region. Concerts, sporting events, hell even congregate religious events could be held at such a facility comfortably. All are rentable events. You think Wright State uses the Nutter Center only for their team's basketball games? Give me a break. But of course, on this board, we're only concerned about shortsighted things like the justification of size based on how many people come to games, or about how wonderful it was that the University put up video boards that replaced scoreboards from the Reagan administration.
i completely agree. one of the biggest events the nutter center has every year doesn't even have any ties to wright state university. it's the fitness expo that happens the weekend of the air force marathon. there's no reason that a new facility would have to be solely for use of the university athletic programs. and it's a great source of extra income to be able to rent out the facility for events like that.
How many concerts or major events are you expecting in Valparaiso, IN??? The other cities in our conference have much larger populations to my knowledge, which make them business/population centers. How many corporate sponsors would support a suite in Valpo?? That is probably the biggest obstacle to your proposal.
I've been told the ARC has hosted boxing, wrestling or even a truck pull? Not sure but some outside events. I know Ivy Tech holds their graduation event at the ARC.
And I think there are TWO consession areas! ;)
The reality is there won't be a brand new facility. The money already into the floor and new score board are pretty good indications of a remodel. I really don't have any inside info, just my guess.
I am confident that a new fieldhouse will be built on the hospital site as this will be a requirement to service all the needs of an expanded number of students.
I guess my point has to do with opposing the notion that new facilities will mean better players will want to come. As I stated earlier, there are lots of examples of schools putting lots of money into new arenas etc. with mixed results at best (Loyola, Wright State, Nebraska etc)
Quote from: valpotx on March 09, 2012, 05:07:51 PM
How many concerts or major events are you expecting in Valparaiso, IN??? The other cities in our conference have much larger populations to my knowledge, which make them business/population centers. How many corporate sponsors would support a suite in Valpo?? That is probably the biggest obstacle to your proposal.
In constructing the new Union, they put large, flexible meeting space. Why? Not just for students, but the Union hosts many conferences and events such as weddings and concerts. The same mentality should be applied to the ARC because I believe there is a market for it.
The ARC hosts a yearly concert with some big name group coming in, and they did host the WWE for at least two out of my five years there. A congregational religious event would work fine, though the main entrance to the arena is right where the stage would have to go, or you'd have to put the stage up against the chairback seating, then put folding chairs down, ala Spring graduation. If you've ever seen Spring graduation, you'll see the ARC is packed, so it could easily hold a religious event. The only problem with regular concerts at the ARC is sufficient parking around the facility for the off-campus people coming in.
Currently, the ARC has its 'aged downfalls', and that's a fault of the Harre administration, and administrations prior to him for not paying attention to these details. Also, the Steinbrecher(sp?) administration didn't do a whole lot to help matters to fight for it either. While our facility looks "high school-ish" to many of you, remember the gym the men went to at Chicago State, or as recently as Bracketbuster at Loyola Marymount. Those looked really high schoolish compared to the ARC. Now Chicago State has a newer gym, but it sees more attention for high school games than it does for Chicago State games, so it's benefitted the community around it a lot more than it has done anything for the team it was originally built for. How many of you really want the kind of facility for basketball games that you see for UIC, Milwaukee, Cleveland State or Wright State, where you have a lot of empty seats when the basketball team is bad, or they aren't playing a rivalry game? Those schools, to pay the arena bills have to bring in a lot of outside events to make the space worth keeping, otherwise Milwaukee would go back to the facility they played their first round HL tourney game in, which looked a lot more packed than I've ever seen U.S. Cellular Arena. I'd rather have an intimate facility like the ARC, where it might look weird, but brings the fans more into the action on the court.
I don't think anyone is arguing for a 10000 seat arena. We all want an intimate atmosphere, just nicer accommodations. It wouldn't be that difficult to renovate the ARC and make it top notch.
Quote from: valporun on March 09, 2012, 07:26:11 PM
The ARC hosts a yearly concert with some big name group coming in, and they did host the WWE for at least two out of my five years there. A congregational religious event would work fine, though the main entrance to the arena is right where the stage would have to go, or you'd have to put the stage up against the chairback seating, then put folding chairs down, ala Spring graduation. If you've ever seen Spring graduation, you'll see the ARC is packed, so it could easily hold a religious event. The only problem with regular concerts at the ARC is sufficient parking around the facility for the off-campus people coming in.
Currently, the ARC has its 'aged downfalls', and that's a fault of the Harre administration, and administrations prior to him for not paying attention to these details. Also, the Steinbrecher(sp?) administration didn't do a whole lot to help matters to fight for it either. While our facility looks "high school-ish" to many of you, remember the gym the men went to at Chicago State, or as recently as Bracketbuster at Loyola Marymount. Those looked really high schoolish compared to the ARC. Now Chicago State has a newer gym, but it sees more attention for high school games than it does for Chicago State games, so it's benefitted the community around it a lot more than it has done anything for the team it was originally built for. How many of you really want the kind of facility for basketball games that you see for UIC, Milwaukee, Cleveland State or Wright State, where you have a lot of empty seats when the basketball team is bad, or they aren't playing a rivalry game? Those schools, to pay the arena bills have to bring in a lot of outside events to make the space worth keeping, otherwise Milwaukee would go back to the facility they played their first round HL tourney game in, which looked a lot more packed than I've ever seen U.S. Cellular Arena. I'd rather have an intimate facility like the ARC, where it might look weird, but brings the fans more into the action on the court.
not many people are talking about a venue seating 10k+. there's nothing wrong with a similarly sized to slightly larger capacity maybe 6k. (i think 7k-7500 may be pushing it some.) but there are general improvements that definitely need to be made if the decision is to remodel. seating style (seats vs bleacher benches), concessions and restroom facilities, and general technology improvements need to be made. the new videoboards above center court are a start - but the sound system is still awful, according to reports we've seen here on the board. there are upgrades to be made regarding existing and potential new concession stands, and the lack of restroom facilities is a definite issue to be addressed. hopefully these are all examined when deciding remodel/replacement.
One thing I can attest to: very often what should be outstanding seats suck by comparison. The prime seat I had Saturday and Tuesday had me forever craning my neck to see around all the people who couldn't be bothered to stay in their seat or on the sideline until there was a stoppage in play >:( There are configurations where that is greatly minimized, are there not?
Yes, I remember the one big name concert each year and the WWE events.
A segue from the current topic: We had to work the WWE events as part of the baseball team (football also helped), and were escorts for the wrestlers to and from the ring, as well outside of the building to their cars. Some of the conversations those guys had were hilarious (Big Show, Undertaker, Kane, etc). The one event in 2002 I remember was one in which John Cena was just starting out, and asked who our rival was before the show, so that he could talk trash about the school on the microphone when introduced. The football team's response was 'Dayton,' instead of what it should have been at the time, Oral Roberts. When he started talking trash about how Dayton was much better than Valpo later that night, it was dead silent lol. That was pretty cool overall (talking to the wrestlers before and after the show), as they talked with you about how they got started, and were all pretty personable.
My point with my original comment was that it isn't like the area currently has monthly big name concerts or events. How likely is it that such a thing would occur with a 'better' venue? The ARC seems to support the current/future needs of events such as these.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 09, 2012, 09:26:21 PMThe prime seat I had Saturday and Tuesday had me forever craning my neck to see around all the people who couldn't be bothered to stay in their seat or on the sideline until there was a stoppage in play
I had a chance to try out the chairbacks for the quarter-finals. I left convinced that the sight lines, generally, were better in the bleachers! I think the chairbacks aren't as steep, so there's less vertical drop per row. So, even if the person in front of you is sitting, they're more likely to interfere with your view in the chairbacks.
Here is an interesting article from Cleveland Plain Dealer on CSU's struggles with the Wolstein Center. Building a new arena is not necessarily the answer. Remodeling the ARC to upgrade the experience, and building the Fieldhouse on the hospital land for all students is the better approach. You want a great atmosphere for hoops. But 5000 is probably the right number until you sell it out regularly and Seat Licenses and other increased donations to reserve seats become the norm.
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/03/cleveland_state_university_pon.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/03/cleveland_state_university_pon.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
While I think the facilities definitely need some upgrading, there also needs to be more fans showing up to game. Sort of the chicken and the egg. I was covering every home game this season, and besides a few of them, the place was pretty much dead. Not just from general fans but the student section as well. Part of the problem is Valpo is such a small campus and they do a bad job of scheduling. Depts don't take into account sporting events when they make schedules. A few times this year students went to other events instead of basketball games because that event fell on the same night of a game. Sometimes they are required to go to them for class.
Quote from: Valpo_Fred on March 11, 2012, 08:30:03 AMDepts don't take into account sporting events when they make schedules. A few times this year students went to other events instead of basketball games because that event fell on the same night of a game. Sometimes they are required to go to them for class.
This is true... but is it really a problem?
I mean, if basketball was _the_ dominant passtime on campus (Duke? UNC? Kansas?) I can see scheduling around it. But, there's a lot going on at Valpo. There are only so many times you can schedule e.g. an evening event.
For a particularly important game (e.g. Butler, a post-season game, etc.) I might try to re-schedule an event. But, rescheduling's hard. If I reschedule an event (e.g. a class event) and one student has to miss it (because of a work commitment, or whatever) so that the rest of us can watch a basketball game, is that fair?
I might personally take e.g. the men's basketball and soccer schedules into account when scheduling events that _I_ feel obliged to go to. But, more than anything, that's because I'm a fan of those teams. And, as the highest profile sport on campus, I bet that a lot of people _do_ take the MBB schedule into account (even if it's not an absolute veto). But, there are a lot of other teams, and a lot of other events, out there.
I think the problem of scheduling is minimal at best. I can't fault those scheduling events nor do I think the attendance at games is greatly influenced by other events on campus. I am responsible for scheduling some events on campus, and I always try to avoid nights or times commonly associated with men's basketball games just for my own sake. However, there are many activities on campus, and unfortunate scheduling conflicts occur regularly, not only with athletic events. Also, most scheduling of events must be done at least six months to a year in advance, and the basketball schedule often isn't released until the university is already in the fall semester.
Quote from: vu72 on March 09, 2012, 09:51:24 AM
Wright State apparently has the best practice facility. Working for them?
It's working quite well for us. We had a bad rebuilding year this year, but you are ignoring the fact that we averaged 20 wins a year for the previous 5 years and had the best winning percentage in the HL behind only Butler. Our arena and practice facilities helped us hire Brad Brownell away fro UNCW and they have been mentioned in almost every article when we sign a recruit as one of the reasons why they chose WSU. You have to consider that a college athlete is going to spend roughly 1/2 of their day in classrooms and the other 1/2 of their day in your practice facilites. Having a great practice facility with locker rooms, basketball courts, weight rooms, film rooms, and areas to study and lounge with other players makes an impression on recruits. For WSU this especially makes a big impression because we have a basketball only facility. When you recruit against a bunch of MAC schools that makes a difference because many MAC schools have good facilites but they are used by all sports. It makes a difference knowing that you can go work out anytime you want and not have to wait until the football team is done.
I enjoy reading everyone's input on our annual "The ARC either needs to be completely replaced or totally remodeled" thread. This topic wouldn't keep rearing its ugly head on such a consistent basis were it not for the idea that was floated a couple years ago that VU partner with the city in building an arena. A consultant was hired to study this idea and the consultant, wisely, determined it was not a viable project. I thought that when this outside expert put his dagger through the heart of this silly notion that it would die the painful death it deserved, but I was wrong.
I've only attended two games at the ARC and even I would admit the ARC could be better. If money were no object, then I would get rid of the concession stand on the main floor since I would agree that feature, more than anything else, does tend to give the ARC a "high school" feeling, add 8 or 10 rows of seating to the north side, expand the ARC to the north to put in additional restroom and concession facilities, and, while I'm at it, put in windows near the top of the north wall (and maybe windows along the west wall, also) to brighten up the place. All of that would probably require some structural reworking of the roof, and would cost many millions of dollars.
The problem with those improvements is...it will not happen in the near term, and probably not in the long term either. I am guessing the university is committed to building the fieldhouse where the hospital now sits, adding a dorm or two, expanding Meier Hall to accommodate the Department of Education, remodeling the Chapel, including a 9,000 SF addition, adding the Welcome Center, and building a new science center. The cost of those projects is likely to exceed $200 million, and will take 7 years minimum to bring all of these projects to completion.
The university has, in my opinion anyway, gone about athletic facilities the right way in the face of limited funds and a long list of other projects that need to be done, by making small but significant improvements such as the new floor, video scoreboard, better locker rooms, softball field, etc. I would expect more of the same in the coming years. And that's the way it should be.
Paul
Quote from: wh on March 11, 2012, 01:25:47 PMIn all due respect you are making your dept. sound siloed. Sounds like some centralized oversight might be in order to insure that the best interests of the university are being served over the self interests of individual depts./colleges. Or, am I reading too much into your comments?
Interesting! I'm talking about scheduling an exam, or a make-up class, a regular help/discussion section, maybe a guest lecture. Something like that. Elsewhere it might be a regular class meeting (those _are_ set, or at least published, centrally), a concert, or a play.
You think someone should centrally approve all of these things?
"I mean, if basketball was _the_ dominant passtime on campus (Duke? UNC? Kansas?) I can see scheduling around it. But, there's a lot going on at Valpo. There are only so many times you can schedule e.g. an evening event."
Say what???? Basketball is the dominant passtime at Duke, UNC, or Kansas? I would say this would be true at VU, but not at those much larger and more diversified universities.
Also as for the sightlines in the chairbacks, I agree that they are not the best, especially when everone is standing. That said, they sure are more comfortable, especially for these old bones.
Tis true that the new arena partnership with the city died, but that had more to do the the economy making a large public expenditure for something like that a non-starter than a lack of viability for a new venue. Make no mistake, the city would still absolutely love something like that as a centerpiece for the East Lincolnway renewal project.
I don't think anyone needs a 9 or 10K seat venue, but there's absolutely no reason to sit pat at 5K. Give your program room to grow. As long as we are spitballing, here's my (realistic) fantasy ARC renovation:
-Knock out wall behind chairbacks (easier than you'd think, the architecture of the building was designed with this in mind -- a nice piece of foresight by the administration in charge back in 1984). Add another mezzanine level (doesn't need to be as big as the other side) with a handful of suites on top for expanded corporate revenue streams. Add new entrance lobby on that side with new concession areas, Crusader Club space, etc. Build dedicated practice gym underneath, devoted entirely to teams' use, new dressing rooms/training could be part of this space as well. Turn the remaining space between new arena entrance and Brown Field into a pedestrian-only promenade for the athletic campus (new home for Victory Bell, statues, etc.) Entry to new seating area would be "stadium-like" similar to the renovated Loyola arena. Better sightlines, better access, more of an "arena" look.
-Replace lower level bleachers behind benches with chairbacks to match north side. The relocation of the dressing rooms would allow VU to use restricted hallway by current dressing rooms as additional egress for fans, reducing congestion and allowing for additional access points into the arena (two additional tunnel-like entryways could be carved out, improving sightlines) or new concessions.
-Add permanent bleachers to east endzone similar to current student section. New concession areas make current temporary window moot.
-Total capacity expanded to 6,000 - 6,500. Additional seats for community's/university's future growth, increased viability for hosting other large events, enabling ARC to become defacto "civic center" for Northwest Indiana. Sell naming rights to building. "Centier Bank Center" or "Strack & Van Til Arena" or whatever.
-New scoreboards/video board and new floor are already checked off the list. VU is already part of the way there!
Quote from: agibson on March 11, 2012, 02:54:00 PM
Quote from: wh on March 11, 2012, 01:25:47 PMIn all due respect you are making your dept. sound siloed. Sounds like some centralized oversight might be in order to insure that the best interests of the university are being served over the self interests of individual depts./colleges. Or, am I reading too much into your comments?
Interesting! I'm talking about scheduling an exam, or a make-up class, a regular help/discussion section, maybe a guest lecture. Something like that. Elsewhere it might be a regular class meeting (those _are_ set, or at least published, centrally), a concert, or a play.You think someone should centrally approve all of these things?
In your original post you talked about scheduling an "event.". I assumed you were referring to something extra curricular with some flexibility. Now you mention scheduling an exam, which sounds like you're talking about an evening class assignment. Obviously, I would not expect anyone to adjust a course syllabus around a sporting event. What am I missing?
Quote from: 78crusader on March 11, 2012, 02:42:02 PM
The university has, in my opinion anyway, gone about athletic facilities the right way in the face of limited funds and a long list of other projects that need to be done, by making small but significant improvements such as the new floor, video scoreboard, better locker rooms, softball field, etc. I would expect more of the same in the coming years. And that's the way it should be.
IMO, this line of thinking is no longer viable with conference realignment possibilities still in play among other things. Not to sound like an alarmist, but my guess is that Butler is as good as gone from the HL if the A-10 comes a callin'. If the dominoes start to fall and conference realignment really shifts within the mid-major ranks, small incremental athletic improvements will not place VU in the best position to realign itself with a conference that might provide it with better exposure and revenue. Not that I do not like the HL but if there is a mass exodus of private schools, what does VU as a private institution do then? You need to think outside the box and long term here. No one is arguing that academics should take a seat behind athletics, but at the same time no one is spending $20.00 a ticket on watching two chemistry students battle it out in the classroom to determine which experiment works better either. VU nationally is known generally by its basketball--that's just the way it is. It is time to be more proactive than reactive, as we were in 1993. An upgrade in facilities makes us much more proactive.
Um, bump...
If today's events aren't an emphatic reason why you don't sit pat and wait on facilitiy upgrades until we "fill the seats we have," I don't know what would be... I'd say this subject has increased in urgency over the past 24 hours, no?
Unless there's poster out there from KS, IL or MD that's remaining quiet until they get their financial planner on board, it doesn't sound like Mega Millions will be our salvation. So.......... let's talk about donors.
IMO, the letters we get from the Athletic Department and a few other requests for donations that come every now and again are not going to spur significant donations to the athletic program. Again in my opinion, it would help things along quite a bit if a well-conceived, coordinated, and publicized campaign with specific physical and monetary targets was established (not like FITT; but better conceived, better supported with collateral and upfront investment, etc). We've heard words about the expanded athletic quadrant and lip service to excellence, and yes, there have been incremental improvements such as the court and scoreboard in the ARC and the turf surface, lights and scoreboard for Brown Field. But what I am hearing from all of you, to one degree or another, is that it is now time, given an HL titles in MBB (along with the Drew MSU interview publicity) and MSO, overall excellence in WVB and WSB, NCAA bid in bowling, and upset of Arkansas in baseball, to take a more significant step forward in fundraising. I would like to see the people in charge (1) develop and publicize conceptual drawings and plans for ARC enhancement/expansion and the enhancement/completion of Brown Field. Then (2) next, there should be conceptual drawings prepared and released for the development of the new Porter Hospital property. And, finally, (3) like some of the housing projects, secure loans to springboard the work and then put pressure on alumni and other donors to back up the strategy. I, for one, respond better to concrete ideas and drawings than generalized wishes about the future. Until there are some teeth applied to a giving campaign, I'm concerned that it will continue to shuffle along as it has for so many years.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 31, 2012, 12:12:34 PM
Unless there's poster out there from KS, IL or MD that's remaining quiet until they get their financial planner on board, it doesn't sound like Mega Millions will be our salvation. So.......... let's talk about donors.
IMO, the letters we get from the Athletic Department and a few other requests for donations that come every now and again are not going to spur significant donations to the athletic program. Again in my opinion, it would help things along quite a bit if a well-conceived, coordinated, and publicized campaign with specific physical and monetary targets was established (not like FITT; but better conceived, better supported with collateral and upfront investment, etc). We've heard words about the expanded athletic quadrant and lip service to excellence, and yes, there have been incremental improvements such as the court and scoreboard in the ARC and the turf surface, lights and scoreboard for Brown Field. But what I am hearing from all of you, to one degree or another, is that it is now time, given an HL titles in MBB (along with the Drew MSU interview publicity) and MSO, overall excellence in WVB and WSB, NCAA bid in bowling, and upset of Arkansas in baseball, to take a more significant step forward in fundraising. I would like to see the people in charge (1) develop and publicize conceptual drawings and plans for ARC enhancement/expansion and the enhancement/completion of Brown Field. Then (2) next, there should be conceptual drawings prepared and released for the development of the new Porter Hospital property. And, finally, (3) like some of the housing projects, secure loans to springboard the work and then put pressure on alumni and other donors to back up the strategy. I, for one, respond better to concrete ideas and drawings than generalized wishes about the future. Until there are some teeth applied to a giving campaign, I'm concerned that it will continue to shuffle along as it has for so many years.
Are you sure your third idea is wise? Taking on a lot of debt with the assumption that donors are just going to come to your rescue and send in the money to finish it off is pretty risky business.
Quote from: DMvalpo18 on March 31, 2012, 12:28:11 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 31, 2012, 12:12:34 PM
Unless there's poster out there from KS, IL or MD that's remaining quiet until they get their financial planner on board, it doesn't sound like Mega Millions will be our salvation. So.......... let's talk about donors.
IMO, the letters we get from the Athletic Department and a few other requests for donations that come every now and again are not going to spur significant donations to the athletic program. Again in my opinion, it would help things along quite a bit if a well-conceived, coordinated, and publicized campaign with specific physical and monetary targets was established (not like FITT; but better conceived, better supported with collateral and upfront investment, etc). We've heard words about the expanded athletic quadrant and lip service to excellence, and yes, there have been incremental improvements such as the court and scoreboard in the ARC and the turf surface, lights and scoreboard for Brown Field. But what I am hearing from all of you, to one degree or another, is that it is now time, given an HL titles in MBB (along with the Drew MSU interview publicity) and MSO, overall excellence in WVB and WSB, NCAA bid in bowling, and upset of Arkansas in baseball, to take a more significant step forward in fundraising. I would like to see the people in charge (1) develop and publicize conceptual drawings and plans for ARC enhancement/expansion and the enhancement/completion of Brown Field. Then (2) next, there should be conceptual drawings prepared and released for the development of the new Porter Hospital property. And, finally, (3) like some of the housing projects, secure loans to springboard the work and then put pressure on alumni and other donors to back up the strategy. I, for one, respond better to concrete ideas and drawings than generalized wishes about the future. Until there are some teeth applied to a giving campaign, I'm concerned that it will continue to shuffle along as it has for so many years.
Are you sure your third idea is wise? Taking on a lot of debt with the assumption that donors are just going to come to your rescue and send in the money to finish it off is pretty risky business.
here is a great article about this very topic, and it is very risky! Roosevelt University in Chicago just spent millions on a new tower, and is having a hard time coming up with donors to back it.
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/roosevelt-universitys-new-skyscraper-is-a-gamble/Content?oid=5527026 (http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/roosevelt-universitys-new-skyscraper-is-a-gamble/Content?oid=5527026)
Quote from: BigMoSmithFan on March 28, 2012, 10:22:30 PM
I'd say this subject has increased in urgency over the past 24 hours, no?
What was this about?
EDIT: Never mind, just got through the Bryce thread...
"Are you sure your third idea is wise? Taking on a lot of debt with the assumption that donors are just going to come to your rescue and send in the money to finish it off is pretty risky business."
" here is a great article about this very topic, and it is very risky! Roosevelt University in Chicago just spent millions on a new tower, and is having a hard time coming up with donors to back it.
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/roosevelt-universitys-new-skyscraper-is-a-gamble/Content?oid=5527026 (http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/roosevelt-universitys-new-skyscraper-is-a-gamble/Content?oid=5527026) "
I'm thinking more in line with priming the pump more than paying for it all with bonds or, conversely, waiting until every dollar has been raised before kicking it off. Get the architectural work done and paid for right away (probably would require a loan, no?) Use those plans and drawings as the center piece of the coordinated effort required to raise, what -- $10-11 million? And I appreciate the concern expressed about Roosevelt University, but that was a $123 million gamble using a credit card so to speak. And I also appreciate the overbuild of the Wright State arena and mistakenly going big instead of reasonable. I think we all are thinking a lot more modestly than either of those.
One last thought. Things never get cheaper the longer you wait -- except maybe for technology, but then the next new thing hits and the costs go up anyway. So maybe even reasonable debt service incurred now will be less expensive than later, but you economics guys out there would have a better view on that.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 01, 2012, 04:49:28 PM
"Are you sure your third idea is wise? Taking on a lot of debt with the assumption that donors are just going to come to your rescue and send in the money to finish it off is pretty risky business."
" here is a great article about this very topic, and it is very risky! Roosevelt University in Chicago just spent millions on a new tower, and is having a hard time coming up with donors to back it.
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/roosevelt-universitys-new-skyscraper-is-a-gamble/Content?oid=5527026 (http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/roosevelt-universitys-new-skyscraper-is-a-gamble/Content?oid=5527026) "
I'm thinking more in line with priming the pump more than paying for it all with bonds or, conversely, waiting until every dollar has been raised before kicking it off. Get the architectural work done and paid for right away (probably would require a loan, no?) Use those plans and drawings as the center piece of the coordinated effort required to raise, what -- $10-11 million? And I appreciate the concern expressed about Roosevelt University, but that was a $123 million gamble using a credit card so to speak. And I also appreciate the overbuild of the Wright State arena and mistakenly going big instead of reasonable. I think we all are thinking a lot more modestly than either of those.
One last thought. Things never get cheaper the longer you wait -- except maybe for technology, but then the next new thing hits and the costs go up anyway. So maybe even reasonable debt service incurred now will be less expensive than later, but you economics guys out there would have a better view on that.
You have a valid point about things getting more expensive as time goes on. But how about inflation? That's why. The currency keeps getting debased, so the value of it goes down. Then obviously requires more dollars to get the same thing. Anyway, not to get too far into economics, but the idea that starting now would make more sense so that you don't pay more later is a good thought I think. But will they do something so proactive? I sure have my doubts. There is still some risk with that approach.
Gotta agree that there is some risk -- heck, we'd not be paying in cash (at least not initially). But isn't it time that the athletic facilities match the non-athletic facilities to present a consistent image of a quality educational experience across the board? Valpo wouldn't offer degrees in the sciences without adequate labs (see Track & Field with no track and no field). They wouldn't try to compete with other schools for students in modern technology/information resources without a Christopher Center (see ARC and Brown field as less than modern, completive facilities with which to attract top flight student athletes). Outside of athletics there has been aggressiveness. And there was aggressiveness once it was realized that the old union just wasn't cutting it and probably, based on market research, demonstrated that VU was losing quality applicants because of the absence of a modern, multifaceted student center. Given the lengthy track record of OK but (IMO) less than aggressive athletic facility development, I can only see a proactive campaign as the way to break with history. Once visible plans are developed, released and promoted; once there's a hole in the ground and some bricks and mortar in place; once alumni see the tangible fruits of the effort and say 'wow,' then I think giving can really be even more focused and the donors' responses will be commensurate. :twocents:
Building costs over the last year or so have been comparatively low. Most current project bids have been coming in below projections. Interest rates are low and expected to hold in the short term. Now is the time to move.
Seriously, do we really believe that the size of the arena or how comfortable the seats are is a deciding factor for recruits???
I believe facilities is lower on the priority list than at least the following in no particular order:
1. Like the coach(es)
2. National exposure
3. Promise of playing time
4. Proximity to home (in some cases)
5. Winning program
I'm sure others could be added to this list. If ALL of those are equal, maybe a particular recruit will then base his decision on how nice the equipment in the weight room is or because he liked the carpet in the locker rooms, but I highly doubt it.
I have sat in the lower level bleachers for a long time and would certainly not turn down a chair back, but I just don't see the ARC as the only reason a recruit turns us down.
I'd add "style of play" to your list. I have never heard or read about a recruit using facilities or the lack there of as a deciding factor, although I'm sure there have been some. Facilities can improve attendance, there is no doubt about that, and more people means more money and more salaries for coaches and more travel and recruiting etc.
Our success speaks for itself in spite of our facilities.
Quote from: cmack on April 03, 2012, 01:46:01 PM
Seriously, do we really believe that the size of the arena or how comfortable the seats are is a deciding factor for recruits???
The size of the arena or comfort of the seats? No. But I don't see many posters asking for a much larger arena or making comfortable seats a high priority.
However, the facilities for the player, though not a "deciding factor," often might be a contributing factor in his decision, especially when other elements are basically equal, which frequently may be the case. An 18-year old visiting a campus wants his college experience to be different from high school, and when the arena and practice facilities resemble what many have called "a glorified high school gym" (which is true no matter how fondly we regard the ARC, and may be stretching it for the practice court), he will be disappointed, especially if he is a highly evaluated recruit making various visits to other campuses for comparison.
Also, to the recruit, his parents, or others, poor facilities reflect upon the program and a perception of the university's (lack of) commitment to that program. The facilities represent the image of the university program to recruits considering Valpo just as one's appearance in a job interview reflects upon the self-image and apparent seriousness a candidate possesses and could influence any decision in a competitive environment.
For what it's worth, this 55 year old --who has only set foot in small town gyms in the Iowa hinterlands over the past 35+ years -- doubts that the ARC is merely a "glorified high school gym." I suppose a few very large high schools might have a facility that compares well with the ARC, but I doubt there are that many around. And I doubt the size of the ARC is the deciding factor for most of the players we recruit. I'd rather see a renovation of the ARC that includes an expansion of the north wall (with windows, please), plus more restrooms and concessions. I suppose maybe a few more rows on the chairback side wouldn't hurt.
The VU program that DOES suffer in comparison to high school facilities is our football team. I think Coach Carlson, who is a good coach and a fine person, is at a tremendous disadvantage when it comes to bringing recruits in. I understand why VU believes that other campus improvements should take priority, but honestly, the Brown Field facility has been outdated and inadequate since I was in school 1974-78. There can be no argument about this statement: it simply is not an attractive place to host football games. I appreciate the new turf and scoreboard, but we need a new stadium with a track around it. Albion College in Michigan built Sprankel-Sprandel stadium a few years ago for 6.5 million. (If you think our situation needs updating, keep in mind that before building its new stadium, Albion played its football games at a local high school.) Take a look at the website and you'll get an idea of what that kind of money can buy. And, while we're at it, please, please VU...put in some trees around Brown Field, the kind that turn pretty colors in the fall, so that fans can look at changing leaves rather than the Porter County Hospital HVAC units.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on April 03, 2012, 06:08:33 PMrather than the Porter County Hospital HVAC units.
Those won't be there much longer! But, some trees would be a nice touch.
Quote from: 78crusader on April 03, 2012, 06:08:33 PM
For what it's worth, this 55 year old --who has only set foot in small town gyms in the Iowa hinterlands over the past 35+ years -- doubts that the ARC is merely a "glorified high school gym." I suppose a few very large high schools might have a facility that compares well with the ARC, but I doubt there are that many around. And I doubt the size of the ARC is the deciding factor for most of the players we recruit. I'd rather see a renovation of the ARC that includes an expansion of the north wall (with windows, please), plus more restrooms and concessions. I suppose maybe a few more rows on the chairback side wouldn't hurt.
I am fond of the ARC and have had season tickets since it first opened in 1984, but I can't argue with those who regard it as a "glorified high school gym." Even the announcers on ESPN and elsewhere have referred to the ARC as similar to high school gyms. I have been to quite a few high school gyms, mostly in Indiana, and a number of them are larger than the ARC, including New Castle that seats about 10,000, the 8,000 seat Anderson High School gym, and some others with over 7,000 seats. But the size isn't the primary factor. Most of the high school gyms have better concession stands and better parking than the ARC.
However, the fact that we can even speak of the ARC in the same breath as high school gyms proves my point that recruits are looking for something better. Recruits expect the college environment and experience to be a substantial step higher from high school.
Hey Paul, I'm with you on Brown Field. In truth it hasn't changed much overall since I played FB in the 60s (but it sure is nice not to have to dodge line drives to right field if you are running on the track that's no longer there :-X ).
And I do disagree, CMACK, it's the whole package that kids and their parents look for in a university athletic program today and facilities are an integral part of that. Your list is a good one, but leaving out facilities, whether it's BB or FB, ignores an important decision factor for a recruit, any one of which could tip the scale. VU is in a magnificent position to leverage it's investment in athletic facilities at this point in time and nail down one of many decision points in its favor.
Great point, too, on the economy FWalum -- contractors are low balling everywhere to get work.
BTW all -- :thumbsup: -- there's been some good stuff being shared here.
I have a feeling we're gonna find out soon what the Board of Directors thinks...I'm looking for an announcement soon that VU will be starting a new capital campaign. I base this on a single comment that President Harre made at the Union dedication in 2009, that he expected the next capital campaign to begin in 2011...I figure the Board isn't going to wait until 2013 to begin the new campaign. They meet again at the end of this month. The consultant they hired was expected to provide the final report on the Campus Master Plan this past January. And, since I was dead wrong and figured that a Welcome Center was the last thing in the world that would be next up to bat on the construction list, I really have no idea what the Board will select as the next building project(s).
Paul
Hope they are reading this forum ;)
If enrollment is job #1......The board is hopefully asking what will attract and retain more students? The field house which affects space usage for athletes and non-athletes might actually rank high. Kids have a lot of energy to burn and exercise is great for the mind too.
But maybe VU is no longer targeting active and vigorous students. Has anyone counted the number of sofas, fireplaces, and small meeting rooms in the two bigger buildings? How much of the space in the newest 5 or 6 buldings allows for anything but walking and sitting.
Yet another reason not to stand pat with 5,000 seats and the current ARC: the home schedule. If you want to see better home opponents consistently in the non-conference schedule, instead of a parade of Calumet Colleges and Manchesters with the occasional bone thrown our way by Purdue every 5-6 years, you need an arena that makes such games financially viable. Having an extra $25,000 or $30,000 in gate revenue available makes it easier to schedule more like Butler and less like Bethel.
Quote from: 78crusader on April 03, 2012, 06:08:33 PM
For what it's worth, this 55 year old --who has only set foot in small town gyms in the Iowa hinterlands over the past 35+ years -- doubts that the ARC is merely a "glorified high school gym." I suppose a few very large high schools might have a facility that compares well with the ARC, but I doubt there are that many around. And I doubt the size of the ARC is the deciding factor for most of the players we recruit. I'd rather see a renovation of the ARC that includes an expansion of the north wall (with windows, please), plus more restrooms and concessions. I suppose maybe a few more rows on the chairback side wouldn't hurt.
The VU program that DOES suffer in comparison to high school facilities is our football team. I think Coach Carlson, who is a good coach and a fine person, is at a tremendous disadvantage when it comes to bringing recruits in. I understand why VU believes that other campus improvements should take priority, but honestly, the Brown Field facility has been outdated and inadequate since I was in school 1974-78. There can be no argument about this statement: it simply is not an attractive place to host football games. I appreciate the new turf and scoreboard, but we need a new stadium with a track around it. Albion College in Michigan built Sprankel-Sprandel stadium a few years ago for 6.5 million. (If you think our situation needs updating, keep in mind that before building its new stadium, Albion played its football games at a local high school.) Take a look at the website and you'll get an idea of what that kind of money can buy. And, while we're at it, please, please VU...put in some trees around Brown Field, the kind that turn pretty colors in the fall, so that fans can look at changing leaves rather than the Porter County Hospital HVAC units.
Paul
Unfortunately, if you're going to get Indiana kids, many of them have played in places like the ARC. You can drive down the road to Michigan City where they hold 7,300. If I remember correctly, 18 of the 20 largest high school gyms in the country are in Indiana, or at least that was the case a few years ago. Granted, they're not full like they used to be (stupid class basketball), but they're still large.
VHS Gym has more capacity than the ARC, if I'm not mistaken.
By the way, I was in Boucher Gym during the off days of the HL tourney. Hard to believe that place was once the high school gym. It's so small ;) I played there in 9th grade.
I am in Boucher nearly every weekend....remember that there were bleachers on the floors.
That is an outstanding gym, one of the best around. The floors, the background, the raised seats, etc. It is sacred in Valpo for those that played in it in high school.
lowposter
Quote from: lowposter on April 04, 2012, 02:52:05 PM
I am in Boucher nearly every weekend....remember that there were bleachers on the floors.
That is an outstanding gym, one of the best around. The floors, the background, the raised seats, etc. It is sacred in Valpo for those that played in it in high school.
lowposter
There had to be bleachers on the floor, otherwise my memories of the place were completely invalid -- thanks for that confirmation. However, it looks like those do not extend out from the wall, unless I wasn't paying attention.
There was an 8th grade AAU tournament going on that weekend, and a nephew of mine was on one of the teams.
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 04, 2012, 12:18:40 PM
VHS Gym has more capacity than the ARC, if I'm not mistaken.
By the way, I was in Boucher Gym during the off days of the HL tourney. Hard to believe that place was once the high school gym. It's so small ;) I played there in 9th grade.
VHS gym & the ARC both seat 5000, but the ARC can handle 6000.
Viking gym is the 34th largest in the state.
i'll be honest, i can't fathom a high school gym that holds that many. even my high school's football stadium can't hold that many. (and no, i didn't go to high school in indiana)
Quote from: valpospartan on April 04, 2012, 03:48:38 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 04, 2012, 12:18:40 PM
VHS Gym has more capacity than the ARC, if I'm not mistaken.
By the way, I was in Boucher Gym during the off days of the HL tourney. Hard to believe that place was once the high school gym. It's so small ;) I played there in 9th grade.
VHS gym & the ARC both seat 5000, but the ARC can handle 6000.
Time out. VHS gym has mezzanine on both sides, ARC only on one side. I have trouble believing what you are telling me. True, ARC has endzone bleachers (well, on one side at least, and minimally on the other, but it still is hard to believe the ARC has more capacity.
VHS runs baseline to baseline and the arc goes at least ten feet past on each end, plus the extra ten feet of court. Also, the mezzanine at the arc is WAY higher than the sides at VHS.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on April 04, 2012, 09:47:27 PM
VHS runs baseline to baseline and the arc goes at least ten feet past on each end, plus the extra ten feet of court. Also, the mezzanine at the arc is WAY higher than the sides at VHS.
Well, it's been 12 years since I've been there, so I have no basis for fighting you on that one. Uncle ;)
StlVUFan:
"Time out. VHS gym has mezzanine on both sides, ARC only on one side. I have trouble believing what you are telling me. True, ARC has endzone bleachers (well, on one side at least, and minimally on the other, but it still is hard to believe the ARC has more capacity."
I got the nuimbers from the VU athletic site and a website listing HS gym capacities. I have been in both gyms, also, and have no problem believing the numbers.
Valpo High School changed its bleachers about 10 years ago (maybe more). They lost a lot of seats - not as many rows, for one thing.
The only time it is at capacity for anything other than the Munster games when Hummel and Martin were playing is the Christmas musical program every year and graduation. I'd say it's slightly less than what the ARC holds when it's filled up.
Quote from: Valpo89 on April 05, 2012, 01:10:31 PM
Valpo High School changed its bleachers about 10 years ago (maybe more). They lost a lot of seats - not as many rows, for one thing.
The only time it is at capacity for anything other than the Munster games when Hummel and Martin were playing is the Christmas musical program every year and graduation. I'd say it's slightly less than what the ARC holds when it's filled up.
Ah, see. That's information I didn't have. The VHS Gym I remember, the mezzanine went way up there. If they've reduced it, that would explain my error.
Quote from: 78crusader on April 03, 2012, 08:18:48 PM
I have a feeling we're gonna find out soon what the Board of Directors thinks...I'm looking for an announcement soon that VU will be starting a new capital campaign. I base this on a single comment that President Harre made at the Union dedication in 2009, that he expected the next capital campaign to begin in 2011...I figure the Board isn't going to wait until 2013 to begin the new campaign. They meet again at the end of this month. The consultant they hired was expected to provide the final report on the Campus Master Plan this past January. And, since I was dead wrong and figured that a Welcome Center was the last thing in the world that would be next up to bat on the construction list, I really have no idea what the Board will select as the next building project(s).
Paul
You are correct. The Board of Directors is scheduled to consider for approval the 20-year master plan in a couple of weeks. Once that is detailed, I believe we will see a new capital campaign introduced in the fall semester, which will be more important because it will have short-term goals that are attainable and expected. This is where we hope for some plans that will lead to renovation of the ARC.
The master pan will likely include a number of proposals for long-term transitions that might seem dramatic and even hypothetical. Rumors include a new science building, enlarging and focusing upon graduate programs, expanding the business program, restructuring of fraternity and sorority housing, a new field house, and eventually reshaping the university by building upon properties between the old campus and the new campus to unify everything.
Quote from: valpopal on April 07, 2012, 12:30:23 PM
Quote from: 78crusader on April 03, 2012, 08:18:48 PM
I have a feeling we're gonna find out soon what the Board of Directors thinks...I'm looking for an announcement soon that VU will be starting a new capital campaign. I base this on a single comment that President Harre made at the Union dedication in 2009, that he expected the next capital campaign to begin in 2011...I figure the Board isn't going to wait until 2013 to begin the new campaign. They meet again at the end of this month. The consultant they hired was expected to provide the final report on the Campus Master Plan this past January. And, since I was dead wrong and figured that a Welcome Center was the last thing in the world that would be next up to bat on the construction list, I really have no idea what the Board will select as the next building project(s).
Paul
You are correct. The Board of Directors is scheduled to consider for approval the 20-year master plan in a couple of weeks. Once that is detailed, I believe we will see a new capital campaign introduced in the fall semester, which will be more important because it will have short-term goals that are attainable and expected. This is where we hope for some plans that will lead to renovation of the ARC.
The master pan will likely include a number of proposals for long-term transitions that might seem dramatic and even hypothetical. Rumors include a new science building, enlarging and focusing upon graduate programs, expanding the business program, restructuring of fraternity and sorority housing, a new field house, and eventually reshaping the university by building upon properties between the old campus and the new campus to unify everything.
Although I tend to believe what you are saying here, I wonder if you have a source on this. Where are you getting it from? "My guy says" is not good enough, like a certain poster used to say.
Quote from: DMvalpo18 on April 08, 2012, 03:53:11 PM
Although I tend to believe what you are saying here, I wonder if you have a source on this. Where are you getting it from? "My guy says" is not good enough, like a certain poster used to say.
Obviously, I can't reveal my source here, but if you check my various comments in the thread on enrollment numbers, you will see my source in the administration was accurate on that subject and is reliable.
I know the focus of this thread is mainly the ARC, but I really hope the board has a broader vision in mind for the near term -- i.e. at least including Brown Field and the track immediately along with ARC improvements. The Porter Hosp. property will take much longer to evolve, but understandably so.
Having an inside source isn't much fun sometimes. Let him say what he thinks to be true and if it is then great, if it is not then go after the guy.
Let me add some "insider sources" (mine is actually one of the fund raisers!) who has told me and confirmed some of what valpopal has said. Specifically, I have been told of an idea to add and entrance of sorts to old campus and the law school specifically. Where that will be is not clear to me.
I was also told of ideas to relate and/or develop a Greek Village which was at one point thought to be near the former President' home but more recently has bee n thought to be south of Mound Street in the Short Street area.
Valpo has for some time been acquiring the houses on McIntyre with the idea of tearing them all down and using that space for relocating the Eastgate Fields. This may have changed as I've heard that there may just be a pathway cut through for student foot traffic over to the ARC and Brown Field. The hospital site acquisition may have had something to do with that change or possibly the fact that in may be too difficult or take too many years to finish all the acquisitions.
I wish I had some specifics about the ARC plans but I don't. The hospital site is about 13 acres and I think the University has been acquiring other pieces nearby as they have become availalble. This article from the Post-Trib talks about some ideas and one includes tearing down the Nursing School so that will need to be replaced as well. Lots to think about, but very exciting...
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/porter/7616755-418/vu-may-grow-athletics-student-body-size-with-purchase-of-old-hospital.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/porter/7616755-418/vu-may-grow-athletics-student-body-size-with-purchase-of-old-hospital.html)
Why not make McIntyre the Greek village? It would make a very pleasant Fraternity/Sorority Row. Just wondering.
If I recall correctly, the first draft of the new Campus Master Plan, which was discussed publicly last fall, saved McIntyre from the wrecking ball. My best guess is that it would have taken too long for VU to acquire all the properties. It is true the original campus master plan, drafted sometime in the 1980s, had the McIntyre area turned over into athletic fields. I think also there was some mention made from the authors of the new master plan that students kind of like having McIntyre around since it does give provide a quiet residential area adjacent to campus. (There may be some older, less attractive homes on McIntyre, but nothing like the eyesores that are found west of campus.) So, in the long term I see VU building new nursing building in the heart of campus, and maybe moving the baseball field to the area just north of the football field (and getting rid of Eastgate altogether), but that I think is many years away.
I like the idea of tying the old and new campus areas together. I would imagine the law students feel completely disconnected from new campus. I like the idea of using Short Street to build a Greek Village. This would free up Mound Street so perhaps the university would place one of the new buildings there to help tie the old and new campuses together. Let's face it, something needs to be done with the frat houses.
The trouble is, VU has too many needs -- including a new dorm or two, new nursing building, ARC renovations, new track (and football stadium -- please!), new science building, another new academic building, a new fieldhouse, an addition to the business school -- to bring all of this together in 5 or even 10 years. The new science building and fieldhouse will likely cost over $100 million, and I just don't see VU doing fundraising for both these projects at the same time. If I'm right, that means one of them will have to take a back seat for several years. So my best guess is the next capital campaign will feature a new dorm, either the science building or fieldhouse, and ARC renovations, along with the hope they can convince someone, somewhere, to throw in $1-1.5 million to put in the track.
Paul
Most of these plans have been talked about by President Heckler over the last few months. I know he told us in the DFW meeting last year about each of these items probably being included on the new Master Plan.
yeah, I just don't see the Nursing building being a priority in the next campaign since it seems to be adequate, but I could be wrong. Meier Hall will be the new education building, so I think 78 is just about spot on.
Quote from: okinawatyphoon on April 09, 2012, 06:30:06 PM
yeah, I just don't see the Nursing building being a priority in the next campaign since it seems to be adequate, but I could be wrong. Meier Hall will be the new education building, so I think 78 is just about spot on.
agreed. didn't lebien just get redone about 20 years ago? it may not be large enough to accomodate the growing number of nursing students, but i don't remember it being anywhere near as outdated as neils is.
It'd be great in my mind if the following could occur in conjunction with the development of the Porter County Hospital property:
Immediate (even before the hospital is demolished):
(1) Installation of track (live with the current Brown Field south stands for a bit longer)
(2) ARC update and slight expansion to, say, 6500. Commit to making the ARC the permanent home of only MBB, WBB, VB and M&W Swimming, period.
Then....... Near-term Future:
(1) Remove the north Brown Field visitor stands and construct the new Field House on the north side of Brown Field with integrated football stadium home stands built into the building's south side that expands Brown Field seating to a legit 7,500-8,000 and provides ticket offices and concessions for the stadium and fan lounges and other cool stuff to support the new Brown Field complex. Inside it provides indoor track and indoor training facilities plus a first class general student fitness center plus new football, soccer, SB, tennis, T&F, and baseball (future) locker space, plus meeting rooms, training rooms, weight training facilities, ticket offices, etc. Brown Field and the Field House become the near-term permanent home of FB, MSO, WSO, T&F/CC, M&W Tennis and WSB teams.
(2) Construct 2 soccer practice fields.
Slightly Longer-term Future:
(1) Build new Em Bauer Field into the complex and add MBB to the mix.
(2) Move SB field into complex.
(3) Complex now the new home of all sports except M&WBB, Swimming and VB.
BTW Mark Labarbera came from UNH where this integrated field house/football & track stadium model was followed. It's a very effective use of property and assets.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 17, 2012, 09:30:59 PM
It'd be great in my mind if the following could occur in conjunction with the development of the Porter County Hospital property:
Immediate (even before the hospital is demolished):
(1) Installation of track (live with the current Brown Field south stands for a bit longer)
(2) ARC update and slight expansion to, say, 6500. Commit to making the ARC the permanent home of only MBB, WBB, VB and M&W Swimming, period.
Then....... Near-term Future:
(1) Remove the north Brown Field visitor stands and construct the new Field House on the north side of Brown Field with integrated football stadium home stands built into the building's south side that expands Brown Field seating to a legit 7,500-8,000 and provides ticket offices and concessions for the stadium and fan lounges and other cool stuff to support the new Brown Field complex. Inside it provides indoor track and indoor training facilities plus a first class general student fitness center plus new football, soccer, SB, tennis, T&F, and baseball (future) locker space, plus meeting rooms, training rooms, weight training facilities, ticket offices, etc. Brown Field and the Field House become the near-term permanent home of FB, MSO, WSO, T&F/CC, M&W Tennis and WSB teams.
(2) Construct 2 soccer practice fields.
Slightly Longer-term Future:
(1) Build new Em Bauer Field into the complex and add MBB to the mix.
(2) Move SB field into complex.
(3) Complex now the new home of all sports except M&WBB, Swimming and VB.
BTW Mark Labarbera came from UNH where this integrated field house/football & track stadium model was followed. It's a very effective use of property and assets.
In general some very solid ideas and perhaps Mark will take the ideas from his previous jobs into consideration. Not to be picky but I don't see Brown field expanding to 7500-8000 given the level of play even if we won PFL titles on a regular basis. Perhaps I'm wrong but the community has proven time and time again that it either has too many other ways to spend athletic money or they just don't care much for VU.
I also don't see the softball field being moved as it has just added permanent seating (chair backs) etc and just isn't very far from the ARC to begin with.
I do see a need for a new swimming pool as the current one is really old and only 25 meters.
Finally, have you seen the new student fitness center? I haven't been in it, and would love to hear other student opinions on same, but it appears to be first class.
Here is a site where you can take a "tour" to view all that is in it--at the site of the old book store, next to the ARC:
http://www.valpo.edu/fitnesscenter/facilities/tour.php (http://www.valpo.edu/fitnesscenter/facilities/tour.php)
Thanks 72. Agree on the pool -- I was on campus the year after that opened. At the time it was OK. Really cramped though and if a field house is to be a full student body thing, swimming and related aquatics in a lifestyle fitness center model would dictate the pool be in the field house. Kinda agree on your point about SB diamond -- that's why I left it to my last phase. It'll just be a short walk over from the Fieldhouse at any rate.
If the size of the student body is projected to grow to 6,000, the added seating at Brown Field IMO is warranted -- maybe not 8K but certainly 7,500. I also neglected to add that a new upgraded and expanded press box on the new home side is sorely needed as well. And perhaps a single soccer practice facility is sharable between WSO and MSO. I just think integrating a new Field house into the Brown Field complex will create a cozy stadium atmosphere that will be serviceable for a number of decades. I'm also of the opinion that the "if you build it they will come" axiom might apply here. Winning FB (which I am confident will come) together with an attractive stadium environment and fan experience will put people in those seats. Having attended FB games at UNH, I can attest to the comfort that using the the field house for concessions and bathroom breaks adds to the experience. ;)
Regarding the fitness center, I have not been in it and didn't realize that it was that new. But I do know the size of the building cuz I was an RA in the original Dau-Kreinhader dorms of which this is the remaining half and the former bookstore I believe. It may be nice, but I am comparing it to some campus fitness centers I've seen back here in the east and thought it a tad small (again, especially for a 6,000 student campus).
Good post 62. I need to keep remembering that the student body will grow to 6000 from 4000 and that certainly will impact athletic facilities and attendance.
I know I've asked this before and you may not have seen it, but, are you Harry Russert? Pretty sure you aren't as Harry and his brothers were Phi Psis and you said before that you were a Phi Delt. But, did you know any of the Rusert boys? Harry was a terific Linebacker.
It's been a while since I looked at this and commented on this (have I commented on this thread before? not actually sure). Anyway, my thoughts:
Regardless of how quickly we can renovate facilities, HOW ABOUT MORE CONVENIENT RESTROOMS EVERYWHERE NOW? It is a pain to be at FB, MSO, SB, etc. and have to go so far to relieve oneself. At least a few extra Porta-Johns near where people are seated would be nice.
Also, would temporary lights be a nice investment for softball and baseball if we couldn't get permanent lighting? Especially since we are on pace to host the conference softball tourney this year and will probably need to bring in some form of lighting via league rules. Just throwing that option out. Don't know personally what the business end of this proposal would be...
I think there's been plenty of good ideas thrown out already by everyone else and won't go too much further into them then what I have put on the table. I'd personally love to see that track finally get built and to see what updates we can do by way of a new fieldhouse and everything else that might happen in the future.
How about we build something like this while we are at it? If a HS can do it, why can't we? ;) lol jk
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/sports/30allen.html?pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/sports/30allen.html?pagewanted=all)
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/03/texas_high_school_building_60.html (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/03/texas_high_school_building_60.html)
Why not. I've always felt Brown Field was a HS stadium ;)
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 18, 2012, 01:58:07 PM
Why not. I've always felt Brown Field was a HS stadium ;)
Or less :-X
The point is, obviously, that there are many high school stadiums that would be fantastic for Brown Field. I took some pictues of a high school field near by that, I think, would be perfect for what we are thinking for Valpo. I'll try to post them but in the meantime this is what I saw: Seating for about 5 or 6 thousand, six lane all weather track, double deck press box enclosed in glass, two restrooms for men and women under stands on home side and two concession stands also under the home bleachers. At one end was another building, presumably holding locker rooms and equipment. The field was enclosed in fencing with visitor and home entrance and of course lighting. The home stands were "stadium like" in that there were several entrances to the stands rather than having to go around to the fronf and then walk up (like Brown Field currently has). Although most seating was just metal bleacher type, there was a section in the center area that had park like backs to seats. All in all a very attractive place that wouldn't cost millions and millions and would make all of us feel a lot better about the football scene.
Quote from: vu72 on April 18, 2012, 03:20:45 PM
The point is, obviously, that there are many high school stadiums that would be fantastic for Brown Field. I took some pictues of a high school field near by that, I think, would be perfect for what we are thinking for Valpo. I'll try to post them but in the meantime this is what I saw: Seating for about 5 or 6 thousand, six lane all weather track, double deck press box enclosed in glass, two restrooms for men and women under stands on home side and two concession stands also under the home bleachers. At one end was another building, presumably holding locker rooms and equipment. The field was enclosed in fencing with visitor and home entrance and of course lighting. The home stands were "stadium like" in that there were several entrances to the stands rather than having to go around to the fronf and then walk up (like Brown Field currently has). Although most seating was just metal bleacher type, there was a section in the center area that had park like backs to seats. All in all a very attractive place that wouldn't cost millions and millions and would make all of us feel a lot better about the football scene.
Win, and they will build it!
The local Applebee's on Rt. 30 has been closed for the past several weeks while undergoing major building renovations. I just got a card from them in today's mail that says, "Come see our new look." Imagine that, spending tens of thousands of dollars to renovate a fully functional, structurally sound building so they can continue to serve the same food to the same people. What could they possibly be thinking?
Quote from: wh on April 26, 2012, 07:48:04 PM
The local Applebee's on Rt. 30 has been closed for the past several weeks while undergoing major building renovations. I just got a card from them in today's mail that says, "Come see our new look." Imagine that, spending tens of thousands of dollars to renovate a fully functional, structurally sound building so they can continue to serve the same food to the same people. What could they possibly be thinking?
I think they were thinking that they had a massive fire in the kitchen that caused smoke and water damage to the entire building requiring the building renovation/rebuild
Quote from: Valpo2010 on April 26, 2012, 08:41:03 PM
Quote from: wh on April 26, 2012, 07:48:04 PM
The local Applebee's on Rt. 30 has been closed for the past several weeks while undergoing major building renovations. I just got a card from them in today's mail that says, "Come see our new look." Imagine that, spending tens of thousands of dollars to renovate a fully functional, structurally sound building so they can continue to serve the same food to the same people. What could they possibly be thinking?
I think they were thinking that they had a massive fire in the kitchen that caused smoke and water damage to the entire building requiring the building renovation/rebuild
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
You will NEVER see a new pool on this campus. The people that make those decisions think its too expensive and that there really isn't any interest or need for one.
Quote from: Valpo2010 on April 26, 2012, 08:41:03 PMQuote from: wh on April 26, 2012, 07:48:04 PM
The local Applebee's on Rt. 30 has been closed for the past several weeks while undergoing major building renovations. I just got a card from them in today's mail that says, "Come see our new look." Imagine that, spending tens of thousands of dollars to renovate a fully functional, structurally sound building so they can continue to serve the same food to the same people. What could they possibly be thinking?
I think they were thinking that they had a massive fire in the kitchen that caused smoke and water damage to the entire building requiring the building renovation/rebuild
Yeah, a fully functional structurally sound building it was not after the place burned up! :crazy:
Easy guys, I'm trying to get some conversation going in the boring off season. I'm trying to make a point that businesses are constantly updating their appearance in order to remain relevant and attract customers. Applebees could have recreated the exact same look less expensively (especially the exterior) but they didn't. CVS abandoned it's location on Calumet, bulldozed a strip mall across from walgreens, and built a brand new store. Taco Bell across the street changed it's entire facade. Heinold & Feller, a local tire company by the university, recently made major changes inside and out. Owner Joe Feller told me their store had been looking old and tired for a long time. The list goes on and on.
Some of our posters have maintained that the ARC is basically ok as is until we fill it up. Only then do we need to revamp it. I think we need to be more proactive than that. Like the old H&F store the ARC looks old and tired. The university has done some good things (new floor, scoreboard), but much more needs to be done.
Quote from: wh on April 27, 2012, 08:32:39 AM
Easy guys, I'm trying to get some conversation going in the boring off season. I'm trying to make a point that businesses are constantly updating their appearance in order to remain relevant and attract customers. Applebees could have recreated the exact same look less expensively (especially the exterior) but they didn't. CVS abandoned it's location on Calumet, bulldozed a strip mall across from walgreens, and built a brand new store. Taco Bell across the street changed it's entire facade. Heinold & Feller, a local tire company by the university, recently made major changes inside and out. Owner Joe Feller told me their store had been looking old and tired for a long time. The list goes on and on.
Some of our posters have maintained that the ARC is basically ok as is until we fill it up. Only then do we need to revamp it. I think we need to be more proactive than that. Like the old H&F store the ARC looks old and tired. The university has done some good things (new floor, scoreboard), but much more needs to be done.
Agree completely.
Quote from: wh on April 27, 2012, 08:32:39 AMLike the old H&F store the ARC looks old and TIREd
PUN ALERT! oh gosh that's bad. i just wish i'd thought of it first.
Quote from: vu72 on April 18, 2012, 03:20:45 PM
The point is, obviously, that there are many high school stadiums that would be fantastic for Brown Field. I took some pictures of a high school field near by that, I think, would be perfect for what we are thinking for Valpo. I'll try to post them but in the meantime this is what I saw: Seating for about 5 or 6 thousand, six lane all weather track, double deck press box enclosed in glass, two restrooms for men and women under stands on home side and two concession stands also under the home bleachers. At one end was another building, presumably holding locker rooms and equipment. The field was enclosed in fencing with visitor and home entrance and of course lighting. The home stands were "stadium like" in that there were several entrances to the stands rather than having to go around to the frond and then walk up (like Brown Field currently has). Although most seating was just metal bleacher type, there was a section in the center area that had park like backs to seats. All in all a very attractive place that wouldn't cost millions and millions and would make all of us feel a lot better about the football scene.
I send an email to Mark Labarbera every now and again, and I recently sent one commenting on the hiring of Tracey Dorow and congratulating him on the direction the program was going (3 HL championship so far this year and baseball right there in the hunt as of today). I also took the opportunity to send along a PowerPoint with layouts that reflected my ideas on a proposed athletic campus (1- field house w/ 200 m indoor track, training facilities, lockers, offices, etc. located on the north side of Brown Field, 2 - expanded Brown Field stadium and press box integrated with the south side of field house, 3 - a new track around the FB/soccer game field, 4 - lighted soccer practice fields, 5 - relocated, lighted Em Bauer BB field, 6 - general use fields, etc.). In his reply, he said that it was very similar to the board-endorsed plan for an 'athletics district' surrounding a
RENOVATED ARC (my emphasis). I'm sure that 'renovated ARC' makes many of you smile. I wish I knew exactly what all of those endorsed plan were. Maybe those of you who are closer to the pulse of VU, may already know this, but I thought I'd pass the knowledge on anyway.
From another post labeled Heckler interview under the General VU discussion area, 78Crusader mentioned President Heckler's recent WVUR interview. Per 78Crusader's post, several topics were discussed, as noted below.
President Heckler was interviewed on WVUR this afternoon. Highlights:
1. The next project after the Welcome Center will be a new dorm. Planning will begin this summer with the hope of presenting something to the Board this fall. After that, Brandt will be renovated;
2. In what he described as happening in the "medium term," VU will build a field house that will start where the old tennis courts are north to the old hospital site. VU will also plan on a 15 million renovation of the ARC, with an entirely new arena and locker rooms.....I added the bold font to the original post.
3. VU will continue to purchase all the property it can along LaPorte all the way west to Morgan St.
Exciting stuff!
Paul
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I just wonder what sort of time frame "medium term" refers to? I'm hoping something like 3-5 years? Wonder if any of our well connected posters might have a better idea what that timeframe might be? I am excited to read and hear there are plans in place to address facilities, including the ARC. Can't wait to see the result.....
I'm not the well connected poster you're looking for ;), but I do know that in today's business world long term planning is generally considered beyond 5 years. So your guess of 3-5 years could be very accurate.
Thanks for the added detail vufan75. Yeah, seeing is believing -- even if they are visionary plans vs. construction drawings. Even if 3-5 years away, putting that stuff out there now would be a way to attract donors. Wow, $15 mil to the ARC. Sweet. I'd still like to see the field house built a bit easterly to enable an integrated FB/track/pressbox stadium. I need to figure out how to add a screen shot of my PPT. That would be fun to fool around with on the board.
I vote for a new football pressbox :thumbsup:
Since participating in this forum and particularly this string (and having too much time on my hands on airplane flights) I putzed around in PowerPoint and came up with some ideas for an Athletic Campus along the lines of what I've been reading but also with some things I'd like to see. Thought I'd put them out here and let all of you have fun with them. If this goes right there will be three separate posts, each with it's own attachment: Master Plan, FH Ground Floor and FH Second Floor with Stadium.
Click on the attachment to enlarge it. And thanks to Valpo04 for setting up the forum playground so I could experiment with this.
I put Em Bauer Field, with adequate stands, on the Porter Hospital property rather than where Kroencke Hall is (I remember ideas on that in some earlier string) to consolidate with lockers and indoor practice options. I also wondered about players having to cross a busy street with equipment and such. Soccer and Baseball field locations could be switched if that makes more sense. Outdoor lighting would then also be concentrated in one area. I didn't put in intramural fields, but they would go beyond Em Bauer Field on the Porter Hospital plot (I ran out of space).
Though I put just one soccer practice field on the master plan, I believe there should be two so that field time would not need to be shared between MSO and WSO. It would be up to the soccer program to determine if the practice site would be artificial or natural turf (I'm a grass guy for soccer). This is based on the belief that soccer games would continue to be played on Brown Field.
Miller is already scheduled for demo, but this plan, unfortunately, also requires demolition of the nursing building (LeBien Hall?)
Have fun and opinionate like crazy. This is here to tickle imaginations and stimulate conversation. ::)
Here's my idea of what the ground floor of the Field House might look like. The track is a 200 meter track and inside the track would be 3-4 tennis courts/basketball courts for team practice as well as student recreation. Indoor batting cage(s)? Of course.
With just a little adjustment the field surface could easily convert to ample space for indoor baseball/softball fielding practices, off-season FB and soccer, etc. There is a varsity weight room, but I also added a student fitness center even though there already is one, as well as a bunch of handball/raquetball courts, thinking that with ample locker space, students would appreciate all indoor recreation facilities in one place. I know where my kids went to college (D-III Colby and Middlebury), their field houses became a second campus center -- kinda like a sweaty student union.
Here's the second floor with the integrated Brown Field home side stadium grandstand. Access to the stands would be both around the outside of the field house as well as through the field house on both levels. I figured to leave the current home stands as the visitor side.
The field house elevator in the lobby makes the second floor grandstand outdoor veranda and the press box handicap accessible. Though the diagram doesn't show it, the press box should be a two level affair. To leverage season ticket holder loyalty I've added a chair back section (maybe 250 seats?) and there is ample restroom facilities on both the ground floor and second floor. Concessions are on the ground floor under the stands. I also thought that there should be some kind of lounge area inside the building and adjacent to the grandstand for what I called boosters (but that can sometimes have a bad connotation) -- just a nice place to retreat to discuss what the next athletic fund raising program might be :-X
wow, very well thought out plans 62. thanks for posting!
[The string just rolled over to my page 3. I hope readers go back to page 2 for the diagrams to continue this discussion.]
Also thought that, maybe somewhere, that 4 bowling alleys should go into the FH to support our #1 rated bowling team and provide additional on campus recreation for students when the bowling team is not practicing.
I also added more verbal detail to each plan's description.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 08, 2012, 08:21:19 PM[The string just rolled over to page 3. I hope readers go back to page 2 for the diagrams to continue this discussion.]
FYI, your page 3 does not mean it's another posters page 3. It depends how you set up your posts per page. That can be altered if you like more or less posts per page.
Quote from: bbtds on May 09, 2012, 02:46:29 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 08, 2012, 08:21:19 PM[The string just rolled over to page 3. I hope readers go back to page 2 for the diagrams to continue this discussion.]
FYI, your page 3 does not mean it's another posters page 3. It depends how you set up your posts per page. That can be altered if you like more or less posts per page.
That's good to know. It got me to change some of my settings. Thanks.
It was on my page 3 too. I figured 62'd made some kind of cool macro where it just told everyone whatever page they were on.
One idea that has been kicked around is that when the ARC is redone the northside chairback will be extended up which will make it backing up to the home side seats at Brown. My idea was to put boxes, Crusader club at the top which could not only watch Basketball games but by turning around, watch football. I missed archetecture class that day so not sure if/how that would all work. Just sounds cool!
Boston College does this with Alumni Stadium for FB and on the other side their basketball/ice hockey venue. It's pretty cool.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 09, 2012, 07:24:44 AM
It was on my page 3 too. I figured 62'd made some kind of cool macro where it just told everyone whatever page they were on.
I will tell you I believe you might have been on page "0" when you thought that. ;D
Quote from: vu72 on May 09, 2012, 10:53:08 AM
One idea that has been kicked around is that when the ARC is redone the northside chairback will be extended up which will make it backing up to the home side seats at Brown. My idea was to put boxes, Crusader club at the top which could not only watch Basketball games but by turning around, watch football. I missed archetecture class that day so not sure if/how that would all work. Just sounds cool!
So those would be seats behind a glassed-in enclosure to the north? As in some MLB baseball parks/stadiums have.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 09, 2012, 11:34:15 AM
Boston College does this with Alumni Stadium for FB and on the other side their basketball/ice hockey venue. It's pretty cool.
Never knew that... Pretty cool indeed!
(http://i48.tinypic.com/34nij6d.jpg)
That's exactly how it was at Tulsa's Union High School (former home of the Mid-con Tournament). There were suites that could be used for football and basketball. It was sweet!
Quote from: bbtds on May 09, 2012, 01:53:50 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 09, 2012, 10:53:08 AM
One idea that has been kicked around is that when the ARC is redone the northside chairback will be extended up which will make it backing up to the home side seats at Brown. My idea was to put boxes, Crusader club at the top which could not only watch Basketball games but by turning around, watch football. I missed architecture class that day so not sure if/how that would all work. Just sounds cool!
So those would be seats behind a glassed-in enclosure to the north? As in some MLB baseball parks/stadiums have.
I guess, given the variable weather conditions it would have to be enclosed, possibly with a way to "garage door" the windows to lift them up to provide an open air environment on appropriate days.
Lived in the Boston area (Sudbury) from '79 to '96 and did get to see a few BC games. Of course one of the highlights of that era was a guy by the name of Doug Flutie from nearby Natick,MA. Tom Caughlin was the qb and offensive cood. at that time. Facilities were not that good then and parking was atrocious. Now,thanks to Flutie and others, funds really poured into BC's athletic department. Perhaps once we have a decent football program the same will happen at VU. :thumbsup:
Quote from: setshot on May 09, 2012, 03:16:34 PM
Lived in the Boston area (Sudbury) from '79 to '96 and did get to see a few BC games. Of course one of the highlights of that era was a guy by the name of Doug Flutie from nearby Natick,MA. Tom Caughlin was the qb and offensive cood. at that time. Facilities were not that good then and parking was atrocious. Now,thanks to Flutie and others, funds really poured into BC's athletic department. Perhaps once we have a decent football program the same will happen at VU. :thumbsup:
Mark LaB was in NE then I'm sure so he knows this. The Flutie phenomenon changed that place forever. The application pool went through the roof, the SAT average for incoming frosh skyrocketed and alumni donations exploded [Tuition also grew commensurate with the popularity] and the selectivity (even for the athletes) became highly competitive.
To a similar degree Butler's BB success has, I'm sure, created the same ground swell for them.
But BC and Butler immediately seized on the open window and went after stuff and invested in things (Butler Bowl). Hope VU can seize the day as well in order to support the good coaches they've attracted by improving the facilities so they can use to them to attract great
student athletes and make this thing grow.
Quote from: bbtds on May 09, 2012, 01:53:50 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 09, 2012, 10:53:08 AM
One idea that has been kicked around is that when the ARC is redone the northside chairback will be extended up which will make it backing up to the home side seats at Brown. My idea was to put boxes, Crusader club at the top which could not only watch Basketball games but by turning around, watch football. I missed archetecture class that day so not sure if/how that would all work. Just sounds cool!
So those would be seats behind a glassed-in enclosure to the north? As in some MLB baseball parks/stadiums have.
There's a l-o-n-g way from the current ARC walls to the Brown Field grandstand. Quite a construction project to connect the two without disrupting the existing turf field installation. But you can see in Valpo04's attachment that BC integrated their arena with the stadium. My son played club soccer under the BC head soccer coach, so we saw how well that worked out (BC BTW seats 8,500 for BB and slightly less for hockey). With or without luxury boxes the concept has merit (in Valpo's case, in my mind, I'm leaning toward the new Field House to provide that).
Yeah, I guess you're right. May have to slightly relocate the field but if your going to do it right might as well!
Here's a google map type site that is helpful in putting the total area into perspective.
http://www.maplandia.com/united-states/indiana/porter-county/valparaiso/#map (http://www.maplandia.com/united-states/indiana/porter-county/valparaiso/#map)
That looks more recent than Google Maps -- which I used for proportion on my diagrams. Once the new track goes in, if it includes a 200 meter track, definitely no room for a field house on the west end of Brown filed . Also confirms that LaBien Hall needs to go to make these ideas work.
There doesn't seem to be enough room around the west endzone for the track. Are there plans to use the parking lot where the old tennis courts were for the track? It also looks like a pretty far stretch from the north wall of the ARC to Brown Field. It really doesn't look possible to put in seating that you could see both into the ARC and into Brown Field. There's almost room for another ARC between Brown Field and Homer Drew Court (sans the track).
Yeah, the track oval that'll project west would have to extend into the parking lot. Agree that there's too much space between the ARC and the grandstand to pull it all together.
From looking at the ariel photo of the Brown Field area again, a better thought would be to incorporate LaBein into a new Field House for office space, meeting rooms, and other uses rather than do completely away with it (as I mentioned earlier). With the hospital gone, the location of the College of Nursing can be anywhere and probably should be brought into the campus academic core rather than out there all alone. That still locates the field house in a position to be the anchor for the new home grandstands. Not sure where the javelin, discus, hammer throwing areas would go though.
I wonder if the city needs to keep LaPorte Ave open, after the hospital is gone, from Garfield to Roosevelt. Could that be bought by VU and used for athletic dept purposes? I only see 2 or 3 properties who could be given access to Lincolnway if they don't already have it.
I have watched the posts dealing with the inadequacy of the ARC across a number of strings. I'm sorry, but could someone simply list the ARC shortcomings for those of us who have not/cannot attend home games there. From pictures and watching it on TV it looks nice. And when I made my last of the very few visits I have made to the campus, I walked around the main floor and and thought it was OK.
I think the biggest complaint is that the ARC just feels more like a high school gym than a college environment.
Main beef is that the east end of the floor is not enclosed and there is a concession stand just to the north, behind the basket, that is suppose can be visible on TV.
The bleachers aren't overly comfortable, but they are the "newer" style with a slight curve instead of just straight old wooden bleachers. I think some people believe the lower bleachers behind the team benches should also be chairbacks.
The floor is new, the scoreboard is new. Sound system needs improvement.
I think some people just believe VU needs something "more pretty" to show recruits.
Another problem is the track which passes through the south side. As a result those sitting in the lower part of the upper deck have views obstructed by people walking around. The other issue is the restroom situation which is pretty bad and only two concession stands, one on the main floor and the other in the hall upstairs if I'm not mistaken.
What you saw on TV, say, for the Horizon tourney games, had good sized temporary bleachers added on the east end which made it feel more "bowl" like. Just a guess as I wasn't in attendance. Chairbacks in the entire lower area would be nice. The student section is great.
The atmosphere is no doubt fantastic when the place is packed. A definite home court advantage.
Thanks guys. In a previous post the figure of $15 million for ARC renovation was mentioned as part of the overall strategic plan. Sounds like that amount will more than cover the items you mentioned. Think maybe that reasonable seat expansion would come with that price?
Here is your chance to quit dreaming about upgrades and help make it happen...https://www.valpo.edu/givetovu/form/index.php (https://www.valpo.edu/givetovu/form/index.php) :thumbsup: :twocents:
Quote from: sectionee on May 17, 2012, 05:04:43 PM
Here is your chance to quit dreaming about upgrades and help make it happen...https://www.valpo.edu/givetovu/form/index.php (https://www.valpo.edu/givetovu/form/index.php) :thumbsup: :twocents:
:clap:
Quote from: sectionee on May 17, 2012, 05:04:43 PM
Here is your chance to quit dreaming about upgrades and help make it happen...https://www.valpo.edu/givetovu/form/index.php (https://www.valpo.edu/givetovu/form/index.php) :thumbsup: :twocents:
And that my friend, always separates the talkers from those who are for real. Yes, I am just a talker too.
In all seriousness now would not be a good time to "put your money where your mouth is," relative to a major upgrade of the ARC. It is much better to wait until a fundraising campaign is officially announced so you know your gift will be used for it's intended purpose. Further, you never know but what a major donor will issue a challenge grant. If that were to happen, your gift would be much more meaningful then than now. Just some food for thought...
Quote from: wh on May 19, 2012, 05:47:45 PM
In all seriousness now would not be a good time to "put your money where your mouth is," relative to a major upgrade of the ARC. It is much better to wait until a fundraising campaign is officially announced so you know your gift will be used for it's intended purpose. Further, you never know but what a major donor will issue a challenge grant. If that were to happen, your gift would be much more meaningful then than now. Just some food for thought...
Well then there now...somebody gets it.
A well organized, well promoted, and precisely targeted campaign is a necessity. I've been hoping for that to happen and wonder why it hasn't. With four regular season championships this year, now is the time to leverage the success.
Just like starting a family: if you wait until you are 100% ready you will never have one. Anyway, you won't be waiting much longer for your campaign.
Quote from: sectionee on May 22, 2012, 08:23:23 PM
Just like starting a family: if you wait until you are 100% ready you will never har any. Anyway, you won't be waiting much longer for your campaign.
Interesting analogy EE. I like it :) I really do.
Playing on that theme. I look at it as family planning vs. "whoo! hoo! and whatever happens, happens."
My preference is the former, where there is a specific target for the new house/apartment, etc. , and savings/collecting commensurate with that target to ensure that when the family comes we are ready for it. Of course there is a fudge factor and unanticipated costs, but you have the family when you feel you are kinda ready.
VS.
Putting money into a big bucket where money is taken for a variety of unspecified needs (some of which are operational) some of of which are immediate (fix something) and hoping there's some there for when the kids finally arrive (whenever they do).
VU would have a lot more of my contributions if they would have dedicated campaigns to support Valpo "athletic family planning." I contributed to FITT because it was specific and tied to my interests. Yes, we got a turf field and lights (nice start) and Tennis. But no track. But I'm still ticked because VU did not completely follow through on that promise (even if the campaign might have fallen somewhat short). IMO the lack of a track around the turf field has actually had a negativel effect on Brown Field because of it. And from what I've read from you guys the ARC is an unfinished project as well.
I'm just saying, now's the time for another campaign (or, better, campaigns), but they have to be better conceived and professionally run. I'm just tired of seeing my donations disappear into a black hole. I also get the feeling that other parts of the university fund raising effort are not approached the same way athletics are and that bothers me too (but then, I'm an ex-jock).
Anyway, EE if you're right about not waiting long for a campaign to emerge, I'm really psyched! Thanks for that little insight.
P.S. I also enjoyed the Whoo! Hoo! part too :thewave:
I was thinking about my track experience and I remember some great meets at Augustana College back in the day, so I Googled Augustana in Rock island, IL. Some interesting facility-related observations (setshot will gloat):
Augustana
D-III
2400 enrollment
Ev. Lutheran Church in America
Endowment $88.2 million
21 W & W sports
Full Track (same as used at the US Olympic training facility in San diego) and turf FB field (in midst of studying a full upgrade of FB facilities)
Gym: 1900 capacity (was 3200 until chair backs installed)
http://www.augustana.edu/x353.xml (http://www.augustana.edu/x353.xml)
Valpo
D-I
4016 enrollment
Independent Lutheran
Endowment $140.8 million
19 M&W Sports
No useable track; turf FB field
ARC - 5,500 capacity (no chairbacks)
My question: Why can't Valpo, with a larger enrollment, more expansive campus, closer to a major city and market, and a bigger endowment at least equal tiny Lutheran Augustana in athletic facilities (especially in the light of D-III schools not usually recognizing the concept of a revenue sport)?
Just wondering.
No chairback seats in the ARC????? Gee I wonder what has been supporting my back all these years.
With a larger student body more money is needed for things to support those students (dorms, financial aid, more faculty, etc..). If you do some math with those numbers you get Augustana has $36,750/student while Valpo is at $35,059/student (Endowment/Enrollment).
The no chairbacks in the ARC comment was pretty funny. :o
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 23, 2012, 09:00:20 PM
I was thinking about my track experience and I remember some great meets at Augustana College back in the day, so I Googled Augustana in Rock island, IL. Some interesting facility-related observations (setshot will gloat):
Augustana
D-III
2400 enrollment
Ev. Lutheran Church in America
Endowment $88.2 million
21 W & W sports
Full Track (same as used at the US Olympic training facility in San diego) and turf FB field (in midst of studying a full upgrade of FB facilities)
Gym: 1900 capacity (was 3200 until chair backs installed)
http://www.augustana.edu/x353.xml (http://www.augustana.edu/x353.xml)
Valpo
D-I
4016 enrollment
Independent Lutheran
Endowment $140.8 million
19 M&W Sports
No useable track; turf FB field
ARC - 5,500 capacity (no chairbacks)
My question: Why can't Valpo, with a larger enrollment, more expansive campus, closer to a major city and market, and a bigger endowment at least equal tiny Lutheran Augustana in athletic facilities (especially in the light of D-III schools not usually recognizing the concept of a revenue sport)?
Just wondering.
Here are the endowment figures for the end of 2011. Valpo at 164 million and Augustana at 119. They seem to be very well endowed! :o
http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2011_NCSE_Public_Tables_Endowment_Market_Values_Final_January_17_2012.pdf (http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2011_NCSE_Public_Tables_Endowment_Market_Values_Final_January_17_2012.pdf)
I noticed a couple of things on their site. This comment about the track was particularly interesting:
During the summer of 1992, a new bright blue nine-lane track was installed from money raised mostly by donations from the Augustana College track alumni. So come on 62, get "your alumni group" moving!!
They do have some very nice looking playing fields.
This is related to the current attendance string, but I didn't want to hijack it and turn it back into another facilities discussion, so I went back to the spring of this past year and grabbed a couple of quotes from this one.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 17, 2012, 12:39:12 PM
I have watched the posts dealing with the inadequacy of the ARC across a number of strings. I'm sorry, but could someone simply list the ARC shortcomings for those of us who have not/cannot attend home games there. From pictures and watching it on TV it looks nice. And when I made my last of the very few visits I have made to the campus, I walked around the main floor and and thought it was OK.
Quote from: Valpo89 on May 17, 2012, 12:48:56 PM
I think the biggest complaint is that the ARC just feels more like a high school gym than a college environment.
Main beef is that the east end of the floor is not enclosed and there is a concession stand just to the north, behind the basket, that is suppose can be visible on TV.
The bleachers aren't overly comfortable, but they are the "newer" style with a slight curve instead of just straight old wooden bleachers. I think some people believe the lower bleachers behind the team benches should also be chairbacks.
The floor is new, the scoreboard is new. Sound system needs improvement.
I think some people just believe VU needs something "more pretty" to show recruits.
Quote from: vu72 on May 17, 2012, 01:20:50 PM
Another problem is the track which passes through the south side. As a result those sitting in the lower part of the upper deck have views obstructed by people walking around. The other issue is the restroom situation which is pretty bad and only two concession stands, one on the main floor and the other in the hall upstairs if I'm not mistaken.
What you saw on TV, say, for the Horizon tourney games, had good sized temporary bleachers added on the east end which made it feel more "bowl" like. Just a guess as I wasn't in attendance. Chairbacks in the entire lower area would be nice. The student section is great.
The atmosphere is no doubt fantastic when the place is packed. A definite home court advantage.
There is a need to provide additional locker and support facilities to current teams. There are seating and accommodation issues. I recall someone mentioning that the ARC was designed with expansion in mind. I was looking at the seating chart in light of the comments above and the attendance string. It appears that the two places where the ARC could be popped out are the North wall behind sections F-J and maybe the west wall behind the Valparaizone. I'm not saying that this means expansion to say 8K seats (more like a nicely comfortable 6,000-6,500) but by pushing out the building to the north with two levels of support facilities (below grade and at grade) beneath a new upper deck, along with redesigning and renovating the existing interior, wouldn't that be something that would add to the college (as opposed to HS) atmosphere, and stimulate attendance?
I'm thinking that this has been the plan all along -- am I reasonably close? Just wondering. You vets who've been around the campus and the program these last two decades would have a better sense of this.
We've discussed striking while the iron is hot.
If when we go to the dance this is gonna be that time. Of course this doesn't happen over night. But we've gotten some very good national press. Bryce is upgrading the schedule. There are some great local Indiana and Illinois prospects coming in.
62, you are pretty much on target as the north wall was always designed for ultimate expansion. The original plan called for adding seats that matched the seats on the south side, bringing capcity to about 10,000. That won't happen (just my opinion--no insider stuff here).
As has been stated by President Heckler, the plan is to build the fieldhouse which will no doubt include a larger indoor track. The fieldhouse will also allow for some team locker rooms to moved there as well. So once that happens look for a total renovation of the ARC. My guess is that that will include removal of the track and and reconfiguring of seats to gain a bowl like setting, added rest rooms and concession stands and no doubt chairback seating in the lower level. Many have said how they like the look of the new Loyola arena and that is what they have--chairback in lower and bleacher seating in upper.
The Arc is a very comfortable place which can become very exciting when packed. Having fans "on top" of the court is fantastic and I hope will never change.
As for Augustana v. Valpo, other than D1 v, D3 and their much smaller basketball court, here's the big difference: at their most recent game against Miliken, which they lost, the attendance was (are you ready??) 347. so with a capacity of 1900 that's what 18%? If Valpo had the same turnout it would be about 900.
We all know that Valpo is a basketball school and all agree that the facilities are lacking. It is a matter of priority and I seriously think there is a mindset in place to get things moving sooner rather than later. ;)
Quote from: vu72 on February 21, 2013, 06:28:43 PMIf Valpo had the same turnout it would be about 900.
Would that be the Smith years?
Quote from: vu72 on February 21, 2013, 06:28:43 PM
The original plan called for adding seats that matched the seats on the south side, bringing capcity to about 10,000. That won't happen (just my opinion--no insider stuff here).
As has been stated by President Heckler, the plan is to build the fieldhouse which will no doubt include a larger indoor track. The fieldhouse will also allow for some team locker rooms to moved there as well. So once that happens look for a total renovation of the ARC. My guess is that that will include removal of the track and and reconfiguring of seats to gain a bowl like setting, added rest rooms and concession stands and no doubt chairback seating in the lower level. Many have said how they like the look of the new Loyola arena and that is what they have--chairback in lower and bleacher seating in upper.
The Arc is a very comfortable place which can become very exciting when packed. Having fans "on top" of the court is fantastic and I hope will never change.
As for Augustana v. Valpo, other than D1 v, D3 and their much smaller basketball court, here's the big difference: at their most recent game against Miliken, which they lost, the attendance was (are you ready??) 347. so with a capacity of 1900 that's what 18%? If Valpo had the same turnout it would be about 900.
We all know that Valpo is a basketball school and all agree that the facilities are lacking. It is a matter of priority and I seriously think there is a mindset in place to get things moving sooner rather than later. ;)
Agree that 10K is way too many for little Valpo. Like all of the lower level arena ideas
The ARC, in my mind, is the top priority, so I was thinking of a two stage ARC time line more like:
STAGE 1
1) build an addition off the north wall to bring some sports (i.e., football and future space for baseball and softball) into the locker/support complex and add additional rest rooms and concessions for the arena. This could be done any time and if it takes a year, that's OK.
2) Once the shell is complete, in offseason #1, pop out the north wall above that new space for moveable bleachers (like AA-EE) to achieve the semi-final capacity (adding about 1500 bleacher seats would bring interim capacity to about 7,000, and it provides another gym floor for non game days). This would leave the current arena undisturbed and fully available.
3) start building the field house for other sports and for the indoor track
STAGE 2 (offseason #2)
4) renovate lower arena for chair back bowl configuration and achieve final capacity down to 6500.
5) With football in the ARC, construct the baseball stadium and practice facility across Union.
By doing it this way the in season games will not be disturbed. Eight months to redo the lower arena should suffice.
BTW I clipped the Augustana piece out of the quotes from the original discussion from way back -- thinking that it was really not relevant to this discussion.
I was watching the coach interviews that were taped by the HLN this afternoon (or maybe yesterday) for the Friday night games. The ARC actually looks ready for prime time. This is the first time I've had a chance to see the ARC from that angle. I really like the color choices. The chair-back seats look good. From 1000 miles away it appears to look like a D-I university arena (at least mid-major). Most of the New England "mid majors" play in band boxes.
I do occasionally go to Boston College BB and hockey events and have attended events in the Boston University Agganis Center (Hockey is the BIGGIE). Both are 8000-8500 seats and all (except for floor-side for BB) are chair backs. Looking at the Valpo venue on tape, I am far from embarrassed. But, I acknowledge that in the Hoosier state some HS gyms are palaces (and I know some HS football stadiums are far above VU's -- and were talking IN, not TX, TX).
Regardless -- it's so great to bring the HL tourney to 46383
:popcorn: This is a BTW: Did all of you know that "Hoosiers" is a DEMONYM ? I didn't know there was a word for it (but I do now).
A demonym (pron.: /ˈdɛmənɪm/), also referred to as a gentilic, is a name for a resident of a locality, and is usually, though not always, derived from the name of a locality;[1] the demonym for a resident of Britain is Briton, and the demonym for a resident of Canada is Canadian. Yet the most common English language demonym for the people of the Netherlands is Dutch (though the word Netherlander is also used).
Indianan? Nah, Hoosier (like the Dutch).
Not sure if this is the best thread for this, but according to a new Torch article, ARC renovations may be around the corner.
"Changes to the Athletics-Recreation Center will be made to add more seating, and possible classroom renovations in the Neils Science Center."
http://www.valpotorch.com/news/article_5a54cc80-3d7d-11e3-aa55-0019bb30f31a.html (http://www.valpotorch.com/news/article_5a54cc80-3d7d-11e3-aa55-0019bb30f31a.html)
Quote from: okinawatyphoon on October 26, 2013, 09:21:42 AM
Not sure if this is the best thread for this, but according to a new Torch article, ARC renovations may be around the corner.
"Changes to the Athletics-Recreation Center will be made to add more seating...."
This agrees with information told to me by a Valpo official at the Homecoming football game, though he said he had no idea of the timetable.
It looks like he must have listened to feedback from the MVC about the need to improve some facilities, with us finally adding a track, and expanding the ARC to 5,500 seats?
I think that would fantastic to have the ARC renovated and some more seats added. I just hope whatever they do to the ARC it doesn't quiet down the atmosphere because when that place is full... It is probably one of the most intimidating places to play for opposing teams.
Anybody know when these renovations are set to take place? This summer? or some undetermined time in the future?
Quote from: classof2014 on October 26, 2013, 05:06:12 PM
I think that would fantastic to have the ARC renovated and some more seats added. I just hope whatever they do to the ARC it doesn't quiet down the atmosphere because when that place is full... It is probably one of the most intimidating places to play for opposing teams.
Anybody know when these renovations are set to take place? This summer? or some undetermined time in the future?
This IMHO is typical of Valpo. We get fairly firm projections on academic buildings, dorms, welcome centers, etc. But when it comes to athletic facilities it is in the foggy distant future -- less commitment, more dream. And has there been a press release that has firmly stated that the track will be be built before the start of the 2014 spring season? No one, to my knowledge, has posted a direct release from the university on the start date for construction. As a result I remain a skeptic.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 26, 2013, 06:52:42 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on October 26, 2013, 05:06:12 PM
I think that would fantastic to have the ARC renovated and some more seats added. I just hope whatever they do to the ARC it doesn't quiet down the atmosphere because when that place is full... It is probably one of the most intimidating places to play for opposing teams.
Anybody know when these renovations are set to take place? This summer? or some undetermined time in the future?
This IMHO is typical of Valpo. We get fairly firm projections on academic buildings, dorms, welcome centers, etc. But when it comes to athletic facilities it is in the foggy distant future -- less commitment, more dream. And has there been a press release that has firmly stated that the track will be be built before the start of the 2014 spring season? No one, to my knowledge, has posted a direct release from the university on the start date for construction. As a result I remain a skeptic.
While I agree that the administration is foggy about athletic program details, I don't think they are particularly forthcoming about other campus buildings either. The official university construction page hasn't been updated in over a year (where's the info about the residence hall?). The residence hall updates have been made on the Residential Life Facebook page, but that project is having a real impact on that part of campus. Hopefully we will see a press release on the track soon.
Quote from: valpotx on October 26, 2013, 04:40:24 PMIt looks like he must have listened to feedback from the MVC about the need to improve some facilities, with us finally adding a track, and expanding the ARC to 5,500 seats?
Where did the info come from that the ARC would only be expanded by 500 seats? What good does adding 500 seats to the ARC do for recruiting? 500 seats will not allow the coaches to be able to tell recruits that they will play in a facility that doesn't look like a high school gym!Come on! That's ridiculous!
Maybe the 5,500 seats come in bowl format :)
If the lower area was to be reconstructed to be all plush seats but fewer and the upper level expanded, that could account for a net 500 seat gain. Wouldn't look like a HS gym then.
For those of us who grew up in Indiana and are a little familiar with some of the more well-known high school venues in this State, there a number of large high school arenas that make many college facilities look like grade school gyms.....how about New Castle for example that seats nearly 10,000 I don't believe that Cameron at Duke is anything to brag about and it only seats about 6,000 or whatever
Quote from: valpotx on October 27, 2013, 12:49:28 AMMaybe the 5,500 seats come in bowl format :)
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 27, 2013, 08:33:35 AMIf the lower area was to be reconstructed to be all plush seats but fewer and the upper level expanded, that could account for a net 500 seat gain. Wouldn't look like a HS gym then.
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. It sounds like the administration is trying to get by on the cheap for ARC expansion and again athletic facilities will not get anything like what academic facilities will be getting. I sure would like to hear more details.
Quote from: valpo64 on October 27, 2013, 12:58:19 PMFor those of us who grew up in Indiana and are a little familiar with some of the more well-known high school venues in this State, there a number of large high school arenas that make many college facilities look like grade school gyms.....how about New Castle for example that seats nearly 10,000 I don't believe that Cameron at Duke is anything to brag about and it only seats about 6,000 or whatever
NEW CASTLE HIGH SCHOOL
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1924/newcastlefieldhousecm8.jpg)
I have to admit the bowl seating sure makes the facility look a lot better.
CAMERON INDOOR ARENA
(http://kacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/CameronIndoorStadium.jpg)
Let's face it, it is the total overall package that makes the difference....proximity , noise, big time home court advantage, not necessarily a large, plush venue
Valpo might as well start fresh....The ARC will be a pretty big mess to clean up.
Quote from: valpo64 on October 27, 2013, 12:58:19 PM
For those of us who grew up in Indiana and are a little familiar with some of the more well-known high school venues in this State, there a number of large high school arenas that make many college facilities look like grade school gyms.....how about New Castle for example that seats nearly 10,000 I don't believe that Cameron at Duke is anything to brag about and it only seats about 6,000 or whatever
The New Castle Fieldhouse is a great symbol of a time past when Hoosier Hysteria was Hoosier Hysteria. To build something like that today would be considered a tax-funded boondoggle, and would never fly at the local level. Thankfully, there is a growing sentiment among the 50% of us who actually pay taxes that we are taxed enough already...
Quote from: wh on October 27, 2013, 04:06:56 PMQuote from: valpo64 on October 27, 2013, 12:58:19 PMFor those of us who grew up in Indiana and are a little familiar with some of the more well-known high school venues in this State, there a number of large high school arenas that make many college facilities look like grade school gyms.....how about New Castle for example that seats nearly 10,000 I don't believe that Cameron at Duke is anything to brag about and it only seats about 6,000 or whatever
The New Castle Fieldhouse is a great symbol of a time past when Hoosier Hysteria was Hoosier Hysteria. To build something like that today would be considered a tax-funded boondoggle, and would never fly at the local level. Thankfully, there is a growing sentiment among the 50% of us who actually pay taxes that we are taxed enough already...
Actually New Castle Fieldhouse was paid for with mostly donated money.
QuoteThe good folks of New Castle welcome visitors. Heck, go at noon, and dozens of citizens will join you, walking the track that circles the top of the fieldhouse. The school opens the gym for such recreation, and it's only proper, since the locals made the arena possible, having raised $1 million in donations and bond sales for the construction in the 1950s after the local school board decided not to fund a new gym.
http://www.orangepower.com/threads/a-cathedral-to-high-school-hoops-the-fieldhouse-at-new-castle-indiana.33695/ (http://www.orangepower.com/threads/a-cathedral-to-high-school-hoops-the-fieldhouse-at-new-castle-indiana.33695/)
I was reading a story on installing hand rails in New Castle Fieldhouse in the local paper which gave some details about the original funding of the fieldhouse.
QuoteBowman brought the issue to the forefront earlier this year, saying many of New Castle's most dedicated basketball fans were older now and having difficulty navigating the steep steps of the fieldhouse aisles. She emphasized many of these people were involved in the original "Gym Now" campaign that helped raise $200,000 to help build what is now a nationally-known facility.
Bowman has emphasized she has someone locally who will pay for the project. "It isn't going to cost the school anything," Bowman said.
http://www.thecouriertimes.com/Main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=282374 (http://www.thecouriertimes.com/Main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=282374)
Quote from: valpo64 on October 27, 2013, 12:58:19 PM
For those of us who grew up in Indiana and are a little familiar with some of the more well-known high school venues in this State, there a number of large high school arenas that make many college facilities look like grade school gyms.....how about New Castle for example that seats nearly 10,000 I don't believe that Cameron at Duke is anything to brag about and it only seats about 6,000 or whatever
Cameron Indoor seats over 9,000.
Heck, go down the street to Michigan City and see one of the Top 20 largest gyms in the country. I am just sad the Wigwam closed. :'(
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 03, 2013, 08:35:34 PM
Heck, go down the street to Michigan City and see one of the Top 20 largest gyms in the country. I am just sad the Wigwam closed. :'(
The Final home game at the Anderson Indians' Wigwam against Indy Chatard
Anderson Indians (Indian and Maiden Dance/Pre-Game) HD - 2/24/2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qYDH21RoyI#ws)
This was in 2011 when they merged Anderson Highland High School (the Scotsmen) and Anderson High School and shut down the older school. Today Anderson High School is in the previous Anderson Highland building but they kept the Indian mascot because it was the older and more traditional symbol of Anderson athletics.
Quote from: bbtds on November 03, 2013, 09:49:35 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 03, 2013, 08:35:34 PM
Heck, go down the street to Michigan City and see one of the Top 20 largest gyms in the country. I am just sad the Wigwam closed. :'(
The Final home game at the Anderson Indians' Wigwam against Indy Chatard
Anderson Indians (Indian and Maiden Dance/Pre-Game) HD - 2/24/2011 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qYDH21RoyI#ws)
This was in 2011 when they merged Anderson Highland High School (the Scotsmen) and Anderson High School and shut down the older school. Today Anderson High School is in the previous Anderson Highland building but they kept the Indian mascot because it was the older and more traditional symbol of Anderson athletics.
This video reminded me of when I attended a hall of fame exhibition at the Wigwam, that Valparaiso, Anderson, Anderson Highland and another high school played. The two Anderson schools played each other and the pregame indian dance was spectacular. The funny thing was the Indian and the highlander's Scotsman standing on opposite sides of the center circle, back to back, ramrod straight, while their teams warmed up.
Quote from: bbtds on November 03, 2013, 09:49:35 PMToday Anderson High School is in the previous Anderson Highland building but they kept the Indian mascot because it was the older and more traditional symbol of Anderson athletics.
At least until white people who are outraged at Native Americans' lack of outrage at the Anderson mascot will force them to change it, sure.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 04, 2013, 08:59:23 AMQuote from: bbtds on November 03, 2013, 09:49:35 PMToday Anderson High School is in the previous Anderson Highland building but they kept the Indian mascot because it was the older and more traditional symbol of Anderson athletics.
At least until white people who are outraged at Native Americans' lack of outrage at the Anderson mascot will force them to change it, sure.
In truth it's only the NCAA that has gone after Native American mascots (Chief Illiniwek at Illinois, UND Fighting Sioux, Stanford's change from Indians to Cardinal in 1975 and many others). The NFL still lets the Redskins use that nickname and many many high schools have the nicknames of Indians, Braves, Redskins, Tribe Names etc.
Quote from: historyman on November 04, 2013, 12:50:45 PMThe NFL still lets the Redskins use that nickname
fer now...
Quote from: valpo64 on October 27, 2013, 12:58:19 PM
For those of us who grew up in Indiana and are a little familiar with some of the more well-known high school venues in this State, there a number of large high school arenas that make many college facilities look like grade school gyms.....how about New Castle for example that seats nearly 10,000 I don't believe that Cameron at Duke is anything to brag about and it only seats about 6,000 or whatever
Indiana has 12 of the largest 13 HS gyms in the country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_high_school_gyms_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_high_school_gyms_in_the_United_States)
Here is a list of Indiana HS gyms:
http://indianahsbasketball.homestead.com/files/gyms.htm (http://indianahsbasketball.homestead.com/files/gyms.htm)
Good lord. I am very surprised that Native American communities haven't said something about that routine. I would imagine that neither dancer is a true Native American? I don't agree with the changes in mascots (except possibly Redskins), but you would think someone would be all over this if they know about it.
I had never heard about Heritage Court at the Sanford Pentagon before. Looks pretty cool:
(http://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachments/photo/2846/4514/Sanford-Pentagon-9202_large.jpg)
A perfect example of how a small building (seats 3,200) can still look/feel like something more than a HS gym.
http://www.sanfordpentagon.com/page/show/871372-heritage-court (http://www.sanfordpentagon.com/page/show/871372-heritage-court)
That is amazing.
Second that. Plenty of room on the baselines for a student section.
In Dubuque today so I took a photo of the football stadium at the University of Dubuque. They play in the Iowa Conference. This conference consists of schools such as UD, Loras, Central, Luther, Wartburg, Buena Vista, Simpson, Coe, and Cornell. I'm missing a school or two in there. I've been to most of the stadiums. The one pictured here at UD is not the nicest one in the conference -- they are almost all really nice stadiums. So, before anyone else says that we must upgrade the ARC before Brown Field, keep in mind this picture and that it serves as a reminder what a challenge our new football coach will have in building a winning tradition. I think we have a great AD, but we need a new stadium.
Paul
http://imageshack.com/a/img34/1084/1apl.jpg (http://imageshack.com/a/img34/1084/1apl.jpg)
Nice pic 78. Though smallish (4000 capacity) it has a big-time permanent stadium feel. Press box is quite sizable and I did a Google Maps fly-over to find out that the main grandstand is integrated with the their arena. Lighting is really good. No mistaking that for a typical high school stadium like Brown Field.
The link below to the DU athletic facilities website shows an ariel view. Impressive. Even more impressive for a 1600 student institution
http://www.dbq.edu/athletics/facilities/chalmersfieldanddouglasjmillertrack/ (http://www.dbq.edu/athletics/facilities/chalmersfieldanddouglasjmillertrack/)
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 20, 2013, 06:05:20 AMThe link below to the DU athletic facilities website shows an ariel view.
indeed
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-TAadZsxQH_k/Tao0n9KtEKI/AAAAAAAAAPY/Ea3N2K11BKY/s400/Ariel---Flounder-the-little-mermaid-223085_1280_1024.jpg)
Quote from: valpotx on November 05, 2013, 12:40:22 AM
Good lord. I am very surprised that Native American communities haven't said something about that routine. I would imagine that neither dancer is a true Native American? I don't agree with the changes in mascots (except possibly Redskins), but you would think someone would be all over this if they know about it.
IF, and that's a big IF I remember correctly, the dance was taught to the school by Native Americans...so I don't think they have a problem with it.
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 24, 2013, 04:44:50 PM
Quote from: valpotx on November 05, 2013, 12:40:22 AM
Good lord. I am very surprised that Native American communities haven't said something about that routine. I would imagine that neither dancer is a true Native American? I don't agree with the changes in mascots (except possibly Redskins), but you would think someone would be all over this if they know about it.
IF, and that's a big IF I remember correctly, the dance was taught to the school by Native Americans...so I don't think they have a problem with it.
I know this annual powwow is held in Anderson. I don't know if that means they taught the AHS dancers their dance routine.
http://www.andersontownpowwow.org/PDF/2005PressReleaseMarthaHall.pdf (http://www.andersontownpowwow.org/PDF/2005PressReleaseMarthaHall.pdf)
http://www.andersontownpowwow.org/dance.html (http://www.andersontownpowwow.org/dance.html)
Also Mounds State Park in Anderson has held some Native American events.
Which probably goes back to why AHS adopted the nickname Indians many years ago.
EDIT: After reading through the Andersontown Powwow website I noticed that Anderson is named after
Chief Anderson, who was the tribal leader of a tribe of Delaware Indians, on the White River, in a village called
Kikthawenund, located within the city limits of Anderson.
The rich get richer! Coach Self doesn't like the housing facilities for his players. Therefore, the University of Kansas Regents has approved $17.5 million to build a dorm for basketball players:
The Kansas Board of Regents on Wednesday approved a University of Kansas proposal to build a $17.5 million apartment complex that would house as many as 32 of the school's men's and women's basketball players....
"Everybody will have their own take," Coach Self said. "But housing, where our student-athletes reside now, is way, way, way, way behind what the competitors would be housing their student-athletes in, in a big way."
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/15/4754823/regents-approve-175-million-ku.html#storylink=cpy (http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/15/4754823/regents-approve-175-million-ku.html#storylink=cpy)
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/15/4754823/regents-approve-175-million-ku.html#storylink=cpy (http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/15/4754823/regents-approve-175-million-ku.html#storylink=cpy)
http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/15/4754823/regents-approve-175-million-ku.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/15/4754823/regents-approve-175-million-ku.html)
And who said big time college athletic programs don't run their respective schools...with preferred housing and soon-to-be extra stipends, these big schools will compete on how they can give their respective athletes honorary degrees for their athletic prowess. What a joke!
I think the SEC has long (or long ago) had special dorms for their athletes, especially the football team. Some of these dorms even had their own libraries - with some of the books not having been colored yet. ;)
It used to be a common practice at many of the larger schools to have special dorms for student-athletes. Then the NCAA instituted a rule (mentioned in the article) that no dorm could comprise more than 50% student-athletes. For a while that kept the practice in check. Now it seems that things have reached the point at some of the wealthiest schools that the rule no longer has a deterring effect, as they are simply willing to build the facility twice as large as they need for their athletes and then fill half of it with non-athletes. Although still not general students, but rather non-athletes working with the athletic department, ie. student trainers, managers etc.
Pretty soon we won't be able to call these "student" athletes amateurs.
The crumbs that fall from the master's table will soon become much scarcer, and those who do find those crumbs will be "punished" for it.
Jim Delaney and his ilk want to keep everyone under the same tent, for the good of all. Why should "all" appreciate the gesture, I ask you?
The Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12, Big 12, ACC can all take a flying leap for all I care.
The way things are going for the HAVES (and the NCAA leadership that kowtows to them), does anyone else think that in the not too distant future that the "Big Dance" will morph into a, say, 48 team NCAA "BCS-like" Tournament, and that all other "D-I" teams will play in a lesser tournament (or no NCAA tournament at all -- just sponsored stuff like the NIT and CXX, etc.) with minimal TV coverage and a smaller pot to share? I certainly do and it saddens me.
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 18, 2014, 08:19:17 PM
The way things are going for the HAVES (and the NCAA leadership that kowtows to them), does anyone else think that in the not too distant future that the "Big Dance" will morph into a, say, 48 team NCAA "BCS-like" Tournament, and that all other "D-I" teams will play in a lesser tournament (or no NCAA tournament at all -- just sponsored stuff like the NIT and CXX, etc.) with minimal TV coverage and a smaller pot to share? I certainly do and it saddens me.
It could happen right now if they wanted it and if they could sell it to the networks. I don't think they want it, and I don't think they can sell it.
As long as the ratings are high for March Madness the way it is, it will stay the way it is.
By the way, there's something I'm not quite clear on: it sounds like the NCAA will still prevent all the other conferences from paying this "stipend" to their athletes, but I kind of assumed we're only talking about the Power 5 because they're the only ones who could afford it. Legally, are they going to be only ones *allowed* to offer it?
And what, if anything, do the mid-major portion of the 58% yea votes get out of this obscenity?
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
A youtube video of a tour of the Sacramento Kings Trainings facilities and some of the new tech/equipment. I am honestly in awe of how nice that equipment and those facilities are. Really interesting.
Would be nice to see Valpo step into the 21st century in terms of facilities... (not even an exaggeration).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6duWB2ewq9U
Milwaukee is playing their final two home games this year in the Klotsche Center because there's a circus at the Panther Arena. Then again, if you ask the Milwaukee fans, they'll tell you that the real clown show is in their athletic department.
As much as we complain about the ARC, I don't think we'll ever be kicked out by a circus.
The ARC is what it is. It's an old lackluster building that is a tough place for opposing teams to play. At least we have the 'tough place to play' thing with the ARC. Its not going to change till some wealthy write a check.
I am talking about the actually training and strength/conditioning facilities need to enter the 21st century. They need an upgrade badly.
Can't speak about any of the other stuff but the weight training center in Kroenke, I believe, is pretty SOTA and is available to other sports not just FB.
Speaking of that, both our bigs need to see a lot of that in the next 6 months -- both for their confidence as well as their ability to contain opponent bigs who consistentently work their way underneath because our kids don't have the muscle or heft to stop them. Also got to increase their leaping ability to alter shots. Still missing Vashil :(. Hope they can get him back on campus to work these kids out.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 26, 2017, 04:10:16 PM
Can't speak about any of the other stuff but the weight training center in Kroenke, I believe, is pretty SOTA and is available to other sports not just FB.
Speaking of that, both our bigs need to see a lot of that in the next 6 months -- both for their confidence as well as their ability to contain opponent bigs who consistentently work their way underneath because our kids don't have the muscle or heft to stop them. Also got to increase their leaping ability to alter shots. Still missing Vashil :( . Hope they can get him back on campus to work these kids out.
Yes, but remember Vashil his freshman year :o and use that as hope that this year's freshmen bigs, who are both ahead of Vashil at the same time in his career, can make as much progress as he did.
Well put.
QuoteSpeaking of that, both our bigs need to see a lot of that in the next 6 months
Yes. Definitely. Also Micah badly needs to eat and lift everything in site. Micah's frame is never going to pack tons of muscle like Max but he will definitely get stronger the next 3 years. He'll be able to absorb contact when driving to the hoop more and also be easier fighting threw screens
I feel bad for Smits because he had a tough break with the ankle injury last season that he had to deal with rehabbing. Really sapped his ability to lift and train I'm guessing. Going into last season I think he looked a little stronger then he did this whole season. He will get stronger and it will for sure help him defensively and offensive when he's working in the post. I actually think this upcoming offseason will be very positive for Smits can work on his foot work and just get stronger.
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I am told the university is seriously pursuing offering naming rights for the ARC or portions of the ARC, which I believe is a good idea and could lead to additional funding as well as better facilities.
Quote from: valpopal on March 27, 2017, 02:21:26 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I am told the university is seriously pursuing offering naming rights for the ARC or portions of the ARC, which I believe is a good idea and could lead to additional funding as well as better facilities.
Not sure how Noah will feel about this. ;D
Quote from: valpopal on March 27, 2017, 02:21:26 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I am told the university is seriously pursuing offering naming rights for the ARC or portions of the ARC, which I believe is a good idea and could lead to additional funding as well as better facilities.
I wonder what the Athletic Department could fetch for naming right of the ARC or 'different portions of the ARC'?
I know South Dakota's brand new Athletics Center that cost $66M cost, they sold naming rights to the building and then also different parts of the building.
"VERMILLION, S.D.—University of South Dakota's new 6,000-seat arena set to open ahead of the 2016-17 academic year will be named Sanford Coyote Sports Center.
Sanford Health secured the naming rights to the new facility after its $20 million donation launched the development of an arena, a science, health and research lab, and an outdoor track and soccer complex back in 2012."
http://www.goyotes.com/news/2016/4/12/general-new-arena-to-be-named-sanford-coyote-sports-center.aspx?path=general
"Major private financial contributors that helped make the new facility possible include CorTrust Bank, which provided a $1.5 million investment, First Bank & Trust, which made a $500,000 donation to USD for naming rights to the new soccer complex, and Sanford Health, which provided a $20 million donation in 2012 to help launch the improvements to the university's athletic facilities."
http://www.plaintalk.net/local_news/article_cebf538c-6bc5-11e6-8ef2-2ff7794e1ab1.html
vu2014, please see p. 25 of "Valpo to be visited by MVC..." for post by valpo84 about "naming rights" and their potential values.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 27, 2017, 04:29:12 PM
vu2014, please see p. 25 of "Valpo to be visited by MVC..." for post by valpo84 about "naming rights" and their potential values.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 02, 2017, 01:43:40 PMNaming rights are helpful if we have an expansion/renovation project available. And, they are one of many funding sources for renovation. However, they may not be as lucrative or available as you all might believe. The below articles show some deals. Location/marketability of an arena is a critical component -- what are you selling and how is it valuable to the entity buying the rights. Naming rights deals are also not in high demand by advertisers/marketers unless the terms and benefits provide you with the value you are spending; or if you have a strong tie to the university or cause. Does the sponsor know how to maximize the value -- interactive, direct. consumer base it desires, integrated marketing, etc.? In 15 minutes of googling, here are a few articles and suppositions:
1. US Steel Yard in Gary (baseball park -- 50 dates a year) has done 2 10 year deals in its existence with US Steel. The most recent 10 years $2.3 million. So about $230,000 per year.
2. Resch Center Green Bay appears to have been around $4.875 million in 2002 when built. Additional terms were not quickly located, but this is a nearly 10,000 arena in a mid-sized town and an arena with a broader reach. Also, party providing funds (Mr. Resch) also had civic pride as a motivating factor.
3. Ford Center Evansville was $4.2 for 10 years. It is also the primary arena for a city somewhat like GB.
http://archive.courierpress.com/features/arena-to-be-named-ford-center-in-42-million-deal--poll-video-ep-445265469-324567251.html
4. Nutter Center at Wright State looks like about $2.8 million but exact terms weren't found. A more recent article says with financial issues at WSU, they are looking for $1 million for naming rights -- how long those would be for not discussed.
http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/nutter-center-naming-rights-among-possible-wsu-revenue-streams/zknAq7owQjkt2xjMgc4nnJ/
Experience has shown most deals are 10 years and vary in value based on size of arena/park, level of athletic competitions, size of the city/metro area and marketability in general of the occupants of the facility.
http://www.sportsvenues.com/rsv.php?menu=names
Valpo is not a major regional draw or advertiser, is limited in TV exposure and the arena/city are not that big. The ARC is not the main venue or even a competing venue for events outside of basketball in the area. It doesn't host broader events, except Lutheran hoop tourney and the once in a blue moon concert or Phi Delt Boxing matches. Not to be a rain cloud, but unless you found someone like Gus who wants to put his name on the side or his company's then options are limited. Thrivent (f/n/a AAL) has been a natural fit, but someone needs to put together the marketing benefits analysis on why they should.
If it comes down to a portion of the ARC, I'd sell the name of the arena. Something like "Welcome to Thrivent Arena on the campus of Valparaiso University....... yada yada" would receive numerous mentions during ESPN games both regional as well as the occasional national broadcasts and would give that sponsor their biggest bang for the buck. It would also give the university additional naming rights options to sell with the other parts of the ARC (but I wouln't think the ensuing publicity and brand exposure would be much :( ).
Inexplicably, over the past 3-4 years the university has eliminated every general parking area and all on-street parking in every direction surrounding the ARC, rendering it the most difficult-to-access sports venue I personally have ever encountered - anywhere, any sport, any level.
West:
• The new sorority row has eliminated the vacant lots that provided dozens of parking spots for basketball attendees for many years.
• "No parking" signs were placed on Union Street when the sororities were finished, eliminating numerous parking spots accessed by basketball attendees for generations.
• Parking on the north side of Monroe was eliminated in the middle of this year's bb season, wiping out a block-long area of desperately needed public parking for basketball games.
• As a result of these changes, parking on the south side of Monroe and both sides of Brown is now jammed with cars day and night, eliminating even more parking availability for basketball attendees.
North:
• The former "tennis court" parking lot was eliminated when the track was built, eliminating dozens of parking spots.
East:
• 4 or 5 years ago parking on both sides of McIntyre Court was designated "resident parking only (by permit), eliminating numerous parking spots.
• The parking area in front of the old bookstore has been designated handicap only. By the way, it is marked by an unlighted temporary ground-level sign, and is a constant source of confusion for people desperately searching for general parking. It is also the only area anywhere close to the ARC designated for handicap parking and is always jam packed, meaning some number of handicap vehicles are out of luck.
• The only remaining available parking to the east are the parking lots adjacent to the softball field, a quarter to a half mile away.
South:
• The parking lot across the street from the ARC used to provide prime general parking for early arrivers, but no longer. The first 2 rows have been roped off and designated as "Gold Parking" only, a premium add-on option for season ticket holders. The rest of the lot is jammed before 6p with adjacent dorm parkers, sorority parkers, and who knows who else. I can personally attest to this, as I intentionally came at 6p at the last 2 home games, and was told by a university police officer at the entrance to the lot that it was full. By the way, a police car is always there with lights flashing. This adds to the confusion as people looking for parking naturally gravitate to the flashing lights, thinking the cop is there to direct them in, only to be shooed away. As for the new restricted rows - often no more than half full.
So where are the general admission and regular season ticket holders and casual attendees expected to park? Not the old hospital parking garage. That's closed and the entrances barricaded. That leaves the parking area to the immediate south of the garage and a limited number of spots across the street to the south. Of course, neither of those lots are close to the ARC, just like the lots adjacent to the softball field are no where close.
Oh, how about the parking next to the building on the west and north sides. All reserved exclusively for Athletic Department staff, university president and trustees, high dollar donors, and players.
To put this in perspective, picture your local Walmart with the best parking spots up against the building reserved for corporate officials who almost never use them and every employee from the store manager down to the janitor. Picture the store parking lot full of cars from adjacent apartment buildings that don't have their own parking. Picture a security guard at the entrance of the "Walmart" parking lot, directing cars to parking lots belonging to other businesses from 1-4 blocks away.
Then picture a group of people with strong ties to that particular Walmart from days gone by wondering on a message board why the customer base has fallen so dramatically in recent times, when the store's products are as good or better than they've ever been. And then proposing solutions like "they need to modernize the inside of the building" or "they need to do a better job of marketing," or "they need to make the building bigger" or "they shouldn't make the building bigger until more customers start showing up."
Thus is the 800 pound gorilla no one is talking about. What is perceived as an outdated college basketball venue in need of updating is more accurately a completely landlocked, outdated college basketball venue in desperate need of easy-access parking that the university has either eliminated or repurposed for other needs.
Parking has been a huge problem since the sorority houses were built. Couldn't agree more. This dissuades locals with young families or some older townies from making the Mid-January/Feb trek from far away parking spots. Heck, it even makes me double think games with the classic 20 degrees with 15 mph winds. It's a B _ _ _ H.
Quote from: vu72 on March 27, 2017, 02:57:44 PM
Quote from: valpopal on March 27, 2017, 02:21:26 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I am told the university is seriously pursuing offering naming rights for the ARC or portions of the ARC, which I believe is a good idea and could lead to additional funding as well as better facilities.
Not sure how Noah will feel about this. ;D
The Morton Salt ARC "when it rains it pours"
(https://americantoolbox.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/morton-full-size.png)
Perhaps we need to talk to the Raiders and learn. ;) OK, bad line. I am getting cynical on the NFL.
I think a system analysis on what is required should be completed, rather than making decisions on emotion. What are the universities needs and from that what are the goals and cocncepts to upgrade the ARC?
So the longer walk from parking is a "BIRCH"? I don't understand. :)
That is a great point, WH. I even noticed the same issue for home FB games and the attendance comparison isn't even close.
Now, I might be wrong on this but doesn't the university own a lot of vacant land just north of Brown Field that just sits there unused? I believe a hospital once occupied that area ::)
A simple grading with a compressed stone surface (not even blacktopped) for a few hundred cars would vastly improve the parking situation close to the ARC.
Acessability and convenience significantly improve the game day experience IMO. I know that if it's easy in and easy out and closeby, I am more likely to attend an event. So without even rennovating the ARC, this little improvement might make the difference for a few hundred casual fans each home game. BTW, if they were to take this step, it needs to be part of the pregame publicity build-up.
Quote from: wh on March 28, 2017, 12:25:37 AM
Inexplicably, over the past 3-4 years the university has eliminated every general parking area and all on-street parking in every direction surrounding the ARC, rendering it the most difficult-to-access sports venue I personally have ever encountered - anywhere, any sport, any level.
West:
• The new sorority row has eliminated the vacant lots that provided dozens of parking spots for basketball attendees for many years.
• "No parking" signs were placed on Union Street when the sororities were finished, eliminating numerous parking spots accessed by basketball attendees for generations.
• Parking on the north side of Monroe was eliminated in the middle of this year's bb season, wiping out a block-long area of desperately needed public parking for basketball games.
• As a result of these changes, parking on the south side of Monroe and both sides of Brown is now jammed with cars day and night, eliminating even more parking availability for basketball attendees.
North:
• The former "tennis court" parking lot was eliminated when the track was built, eliminating dozens of parking spots.
East:
• 4 or 5 years ago parking on both sides of McIntyre Court was designated "resident parking only (by permit), eliminating numerous parking spots.
• The parking area in front of the old bookstore has been designated handicap only. By the way, it is marked by an unlighted temporary ground-level sign, and is a constant source of confusion for people desperately searching for general parking. It is also the only area anywhere close to the ARC designated for handicap parking and is always jam packed, meaning some number of handicap vehicles are out of luck.
• The only remaining available parking to the east are the parking lots adjacent to the softball field, a quarter to a half mile away.
South:
• The parking lot across the street from the ARC used to provide prime general parking for early arrivers, but no longer. The first 2 rows have been roped off and designated as "Gold Parking" only, a premium add-on option for season ticket holders. The rest of the lot is jammed before 6p with adjacent dorm parkers, sorority parkers, and who knows who else. I can personally attest to this, as I intentionally came at 6p at the last 2 home games, and was told by a university police officer at the entrance to the lot that it was full. By the way, a police car is always there with lights flashing. This adds to the confusion as people looking for parking naturally gravitate to the flashing lights, thinking the cop is there to direct them in, only to be shooed away. As for the new restricted rows - often no more than half full.
So where are the general admission and regular season ticket holders and casual attendees expected to park? Not the old hospital parking garage. That's closed and the entrances barricaded. That leaves the parking area to the immediate south of the garage and a limited number of spots across the street to the south. Of course, neither of those lots are close to the ARC, just like the lots adjacent to the softball field are no where close.
Oh, how about the parking next to the building on the west and north sides. All reserved exclusively for Athletic Department staff, university president and trustees, high dollar donors, and players.
To put this in perspective, picture your local Walmart with the best parking spots up against the building reserved for corporate officials who almost never use them and every employee from the store manager down to the janitor. Picture the store parking lot full of cars from adjacent apartment buildings that don't have their own parking. Picture a security guard at the entrance of the "Walmart" parking lot, directing cars to parking lots belonging to other businesses from 1-4 blocks away.
Then picture a group of people with strong ties to that particular Walmart from days gone by wondering on a message board why the customer base has fallen so dramatically in recent times, when the store's products are as good or better than they've ever been. And then proposing solutions like "they need to modernize the inside of the building" or "they need to do a better job of marketing," or "they need to make the building bigger" or "they shouldn't make the building bigger until more customers start showing up."
Thus is the 800 pound gorilla no one is talking about. What is perceived as an outdated college basketball venue in need of updating is more accurately a completely landlocked, outdated college basketball venue in desperate need of easy-access parking that the university has either eliminated or repurposed for other needs.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 28, 2017, 10:23:53 AM
That is a great point, WH. I even noticed the same issue for home FB games and the attendance comparison isn't even close.
Now, I might be wrong on this but doesn't the university own a lot of vacant land just north of Brown Field that just sits there unused? I believe a hospital once occupied that area ::)
A simple grading with a compressed stone surface (not even blacktopped) for a few hundred cars would vastly improve the parking situation close to the ARC.
Quote from: wh on March 28, 2017, 12:25:37 AM
Inexplicably, over the past 3-4 years the university has eliminated every general parking area and all on-street parking in every direction surrounding the ARC, rendering it the most difficult-to-access sports venue I personally have ever encountered - anywhere, any sport, any level.
West:
• The new sorority row has eliminated the vacant lots that provided dozens of parking spots for basketball attendees for many years.
• "No parking" signs were placed on Union Street when the sororities were finished, eliminating numerous parking spots accessed by basketball attendees for generations.
• Parking on the north side of Monroe was eliminated in the middle of this year's bb season, wiping out a block-long area of desperately needed public parking for basketball games.
• As a result of these changes, parking on the south side of Monroe and both sides of Brown is now jammed with cars day and night, eliminating even more parking availability for basketball attendees.
North:
• The former "tennis court" parking lot was eliminated when the track was built, eliminating dozens of parking spots.
East:
• 4 or 5 years ago parking on both sides of McIntyre Court was designated "resident parking only (by permit), eliminating numerous parking spots.
• The parking area in front of the old bookstore has been designated handicap only. By the way, it is marked by an unlighted temporary ground-level sign, and is a constant source of confusion for people desperately searching for general parking. It is also the only area anywhere close to the ARC designated for handicap parking and is always jam packed, meaning some number of handicap vehicles are out of luck.
• The only remaining available parking to the east are the parking lots adjacent to the softball field, a quarter to a half mile away.
South:
• The parking lot across the street from the ARC used to provide prime general parking for early arrivers, but no longer. The first 2 rows have been roped off and designated as "Gold Parking" only, a premium add-on option for season ticket holders. The rest of the lot is jammed before 6p with adjacent dorm parkers, sorority parkers, and who knows who else. I can personally attest to this, as I intentionally came at 6p at the last 2 home games, and was told by a university police officer at the entrance to the lot that it was full. By the way, a police car is always there with lights flashing. This adds to the confusion as people looking for parking naturally gravitate to the flashing lights, thinking the cop is there to direct them in, only to be shooed away. As for the new restricted rows - often no more than half full.
So where are the general admission and regular season ticket holders and casual attendees expected to park? Not the old hospital parking garage. That's closed and the entrances barricaded. That leaves the parking area to the immediate south of the garage and a limited number of spots across the street to the south. Of course, neither of those lots are close to the ARC, just like the lots adjacent to the softball field are no where close.
Oh, how about the parking next to the building on the west and north sides. All reserved exclusively for Athletic Department staff, university president and trustees, high dollar donors, and players.
To put this in perspective, picture your local Walmart with the best parking spots up against the building reserved for corporate officials who almost never use them and every employee from the store manager down to the janitor. Picture the store parking lot full of cars from adjacent apartment buildings that don't have their own parking. Picture a security guard at the entrance of the "Walmart" parking lot, directing cars to parking lots belonging to other businesses from 1-4 blocks away.
Then picture a group of people with strong ties to that particular Walmart from days gone by wondering on a message board why the customer base has fallen so dramatically in recent times, when the store's products are as good or better than they've ever been. And then proposing solutions like "they need to modernize the inside of the building" or "they need to do a better job of marketing," or "they need to make the building bigger" or "they shouldn't make the building bigger until more customers start showing up."
Thus is the 800 pound gorilla no one is talking about. What is perceived as an outdated college basketball venue in need of updating is more accurately a completely landlocked, outdated college basketball venue in desperate need of easy-access parking that the university has either eliminated or repurposed for other needs.
Figured I'd chime in on this.
I believe the original plan was to rehab the old hospital parking garage, and make the the main parking for all athletic events. Work did start on this a few years back on the top two levels. The lower level was open for parking (I parked in the garage for the home NIT games), until this time last year, when the whole garage was re-closed and work stopped. The rehab hasn't gone quite as expected (it needed ALOT of work), and may even be dead in the water.
The university put a wide sidewalk from the garage, across the old hospital property, to the NW corner of the ARC. The lot just east of the garage is still open, with a newly reconstructed entrance along LaPorte Ave. The lot on the north side of Lincolnway just behind the garage, next to La Cabana, is also open for parking. The walk to the ARC is about 900 feet from the front of the old parking garage. This also happens to be nearly the exact same distance as the walk from the lots by the softball field/tennis courts
I attended the Oakland game this year, and the walk from their garage to the arena entrance (the closest parking I found) was just barely longer the ours, at 1000 feet. Granted, it's no UIC, where the garage is literally right next door to the Pavilion (BUT with a 5$ charge).
The parking situation is not the same as it used to be, but i think it is far from a dire situation. Parking exists plentifully near the old hospital garage (just a few hundred feet further than parking on the open old hospital property as was suggested). People just need to use it. They usually even have a police officer stopping traffic to help people cross LaPorte Ave. The university has been trying to remove traffic from campus for years now, it's nothing new. Hence the attempt to move the main general parking to the old hospital parking garage.
Quote from: jsher3141 on March 28, 2017, 10:51:59 AMInexplicably, over the past 3-4 years the university has eliminated every general parking area and all on-street parking in every direction surrounding the ARC, rendering it the most difficult-to-access sports venue I personally have ever encountered - anywhere, any sport, any level.
Asking anyone at the LBAA event this past weekend and they would probably agree that parking was very confusing, especially on Friday when the old Dau/Kreinheder lot was closed to attendees and I guess reserved to university use only. The event was great again, as usual, and the only complaint was about parking, exacerbated by the fact that it rained all weekend and you would be soaked by the time you walked to the ARC.
I thought the parking garage on the old hospital property was gto b e used for ARC parking. Is it not used at all, or partially, or what?
It was condemed as structurally unsafe. Haven't heard if it is repairable at this point.
Some of the parking changes were by the city, specifically those in front of the sorority house and mcIntyre street. The plan was to use the parking garage which is not not able to be rehabbed. We have generally parked on Laporte Street and found it easy and at least as quick of a walk as the parking lot near Mueller. The other issue we are just seeing is increased students which means increased cars as well as an increased commuter population. I'd say parking spaces are the biggest growing points the university is having regards it's enrollment growth. I don't think it' sa huge deal though. I've been coming to Valpo basketball games for years and it's always been known that if you don't get in to one of the closer garages your'e doing some street parking. I remember walking from the law school to the Arc before. It never really bothered me. I do know there is a plan to have at least one other parking garage on campus so hopefully that will help with spots and maybe they can dedicate half of the lot across from the arc as parking for sports events
For die hard fans it's probably no big deal and, like the "how to boil a frog" story, die hards just have gotten used to the inconvenience. WH says as much in his original post. He dislikes the current conditions, but he keeps on returning for games. But the discussion over time has really focused on how do we get new butts in the seats consistently and (a) stop the "decrease" trend and (2) move to an "increase" trend would be greatly facilitated by more, closer, and easier parking.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 28, 2017, 12:12:23 PM
It was condemed as structurally unsafe. Haven't heard if it is repairable at this point.
I've heard the old hospital parking garage won't be repaired and is a non-factor at this point.
I agree with WH.
Parking is a SUBSTANTIAL issue for my group, which has had season tickets for 7 or so years, and includes a "seasoned" fan. So much is that difficulty, that the "seasoned" fan may not be able to come much longer. To my eye, the easy fix seems to be crushed gravel on the empty lot where the hospital sat. Put a couple of entrances onto LaPorte, and the problem is substantially (but not fully) solved.
We have not had many sellouts in the last couple of years, but when we do, it's bad. It is hard to navigate the streets. Newcomers, out-of-towners, elderly, and folks with very small children should not be asked to park at the Law School. That's not good marketing. And, it's just not safe.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847995767432335361
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847996237102166016
So, ml is saying they haven't even talked about facility upgrades. And, the only way anything will happen is through a donor.
I seriously doubt that "what you see is what you get, unless we win the lottery" would pass muster on an MVC questionnaire.
Quote from: wh on April 01, 2017, 09:47:42 AM
So, ml is saying they haven't even talked about facility upgrades. And, the only way anything will happen is through a donor.
I seriously doubt that "what you see is what you get, unless we win the lottery" would pass muster on an MVC questionnaire.
Too bad that's the #1-100 reasons a stadium is completed anywhere, anytime.
Give the man credit, he's speaking openly and honestly. Let's applaud improved communication. I seriously doubt that a drowning (purposely overstated) HL or MVC will be able to dock points because there aren't enough schools Loyola size to take up a glaringly vacant spot.
This response is a whacked out brainstorm.
If a significant renovation is required, which I think so, how can we help to accomplish this. Can we all get together and "build" this, similar to the community building the chapel in the movie Lilies in the Field? Ok, perhaps the pain medications are doing something to my brain, but what if there was an opportunity for the Valpo community to build at a piece of this to move this need forward? Think of how people would perceive this if we could place our effort, monetary and non monetary, into this. Find an architect for the project, find leaders and move forward. a grass roots result would be a cool story.
Again, I am on pain mess after surgery, so take this a thought.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 01, 2017, 10:05:14 AM
Quote from: wh on April 01, 2017, 09:47:42 AM
So, ml is saying they haven't even talked about facility upgrades. And, the only way anything will happen is through a donor.
I seriously doubt that "what you see is what you get, unless we win the lottery" would pass muster on an MVC questionnaire.
Too bad that's the #1-100 reasons a stadium is completed anywhere, anytime.
Give the man credit, he's speaking openly and honestly. Let's applaud improved communication. I seriously doubt that a drowning (purposely overstated) HL or MVC will be able to dock points because there aren't enough schools Loyola size to take up a glaringly vacant spot.
ML's statement didn't appear in a vacuum. There have been ARC facility upgrade discussions ad nauseam long before you arrived on the scene. For instance, some on this board have left the impression that an ARC upgrade initiative is part of a long term plan, but only after a multi purpose facility is built. Then there was this comment made by ml2 (son of ml and former AD staff member) when the MVC came calling in 2013:
Quote from: ml2 on April 10, 2013, 11:54:48 PM
Quote from: wh on April 10, 2013, 04:52:16 PMI'm sure that whoever represented Valpo conveyed how they have big plans for facility improvements in the future, but why would anyone believe them. Excuses and promises don't make for a very convincing presentation.
I think an effective response to a question like this could be made. One possible example would go something like this: "Over the last 20 years this University has said that it would build a Center for the Arts, a Library, a Student Union, an Arts & Sciences Building, a Welcome Center and an addition to the Engineering Building. Now all of these buildings are here, just like we said. So when we say that in X years projects Y and Z will be complete, you can rest assured that it will happen."
Apparently, the university had a story to tell the MVC back then about plans for facility improvements - at least that's the impression ml2 gave. So, here we are 4 years later, and not only has the University made no progress on improvements in the past 4 years, ml is now saying there are in fact no such plans to do anything - they haven't even talked about it. The term retrogression comes to mind.
I will agree with you about 1 thing. It is good that ml is being open and honest. Now we know this whole thing is a facade. Valpo basketball is what it is; there is no upward trajectory - real or imagined.
For some reason, I can't help but thinking that somewhere behind the scenes something is going on regarding ARC renovation. Whether it is a potential big individual donor or whatever, I just think that this elephant in the room(ARC) has been recognized and something will be done in the next few years. (On a side note, this stuff I have been drinking is pretty darn good.)
It's little disturbing that President Heckler and the Board do not realize the moral boost the Men's Basketball program has on the Alumni base... it truly disheartening they don't see this...
ARC renovations are not just about improving fan experience. It's about taking a step up in College athletics. Better facilities lead to better recruits and attracting/retaining coaching talent. All this leads to a better/more consistent product on the court which means increased alumni morale/pride which leads to many more donations and a more active alumni base which is what they want! This is not just pie in the sky stuff.
It's is just completely disheartening hearing there is not even a semblance of a plan... I want to be clear I'm not disappointed in athletics department leadership, but instead very disappointed in the Administrative leadership and President Heckler.
It is completely and utterly pathetic that President Heckler and the Board doesn't realize that many people outside the Midwest know Valparaiso University BECAUSE of the BASKETBALL TEAM!!
Valpo is very well respected from within the Midwest for its academics but when you get out of the Midwest Valpo has name recognition from Basketball. Would it not be wise to invest in one of your Greatest marketing and PR products you have to reach folks outside the Midwest!?
Would anyone know Gonzaga, Belmont, Creighton, St. Mary's, etc outside their respected regions without their respected Basketball programs?
I have been in Job interviews outside the Midwest and when they see Valpo on my resume they often ask me about the basketball team and comes up in conversation. I know I'm not the only one of friends that has experienced this.
Take notice President Heckler.
2014 - you are so correct! In the eighties when I moved to LA, very few people ever heard of Valparaiso. when I interviewed for engineering positions, one asked me if Valpo was an accredidated school!
There is no question that the basketball program has done more for Valparaiso University overall than what university has done for the basketball program.
One issue I counter on is that student and alumni engagement needs improvement. Again, when attendance drops for a game results due to Frat rush, that excuse is unacceptable - with a quality team, would other schools have that bogus excuse?
The issue of leveraging basketball has been a MASSIVE blind spot for Valpo leadership since the 1998 Sweet Sixteen miracle. For some reason the new basketball-driven notoriety was almost feared by the academics and leadersip. Consequently it was hidden under a bushel like the little gospel light.s
The university now has its new library, new union, and new chapel renovations, and new academic building, new sorority building, new dormitory. All were good strategic moves. But time doesn't wait for you to capitalize in marketing windows.
Seemingly it cost us an MVC bid already. If you are an MVC committee member touring the buildings on the campus and then you walk into the ARC, you can't miss the unspoken message about prioirities no matter what else we say.
Facilities did not cost Valpo a MVC bid, you have to let that go.
Edit: I'm not saying it won't cost them the next time around.
Quote from: M on April 01, 2017, 08:01:46 PM
Facilities did not cost Valpo a MVC bid, you have to let that go.
Edit: I'm not saying it won't cost them the next time around.
M is right that the facilities weren't the real reason we didn't get the invite over Loyola.
The MVC gave the invite to Loyola because of the market. They thought if they gave the invite to Loyola then suddenly the MVC would be getting higher ratings in the Chicagoland area. Huge mistake. Valpo no joke get more pub from the Chicago media then Loyola.
I think the MVC understands it probably wasn't the best move for the Conf.
From everything ive seen and heard is that the MVC is strong considering going 12 teams. And Valpo and Belmont are likely targets. I'm really hoping the facilities don't stand in the way of an invite.
Past and current administrations at Valpo have clearly sent a message: When something is a priority we get it done.
The ARC is not a priority. End of story.
Quote from: M on April 01, 2017, 08:01:46 PM
Facilities did not cost Valpo a MVC bid, you have to let that go.
Edit: I'm not saying it won't cost them the next time around.
Will the MVC make the same mistake twice, going with facilities over a team that would actually bring them success?
Quote from: M on April 01, 2017, 08:01:46 PM
Facilities did not cost Valpo a MVC bid, you have to let that go.
Sorry, but "Facilities" was in fact a major consideration in the decision.
From the President of Missouri State University and member of the search committee:Smart: Loyola a unanimous choice for the Valley
Apr 15th, 2013 @ 01:24 pm
Missouri State president Clif Smart said today that Loyola of Chicago – which is expected to formally accept an invitation to join the Missouri Valley Conference on Friday – was a unanimous choice by the Valley nine-person president's council in a vote taken last Friday.
Smart, in a telephone interview from California where he's on university business, said Loyola was "an easy choice" from a group of schools considered to replace Creighton as a Valley member. Smart was part of a fact-finding committee that visited prospective members.
He didn't confirm the other schools considered, though it's been reported by multiple outlets that Valparaiso, UMKC and Illinois-Chicago were the other finalists.
After visiting Loyola, Smart said he saw the potential the school could bring to the Valley.
"I had never been to that campus before we went on our site visit. It is incredibly impressive," Smart said of Loyola, on Chicago's north side with Lake Michigan nearby.
"The school is extremely strong academically and they had by far the best athletic facilities of any school we looked at."
Loyola has a new athletics building connected to a recently renovated basketball arena with a new student union also a part of the connected complex.While Loyola has a storied men's basketball history, most of its success goes way back. The Ramblers were NCAA champs in 1963, in an upset over Cincinnati, but have had just one 20-win season in the last 10 years and just six winning seasons since 1985.
Smart said Loyola is showing a renewed commitment to its basketball program with hiring of Porter Moser – a former head coach at Illinois State – before last season. The school made a splash over the weekend by hiring former Sheryl Swoopes, a former All-American at Texas Tech and star WNBA player, as its new women's basketball coach.
"They were more financially committed to putting money into athletics than any other school we looked at and have a plan to do that," Smart said. "In the next three years, they plan to have an athletic budget of $15 million, which is more than ours."In addition to basketball, Loyola fields teams in men's and women's cross country, soccer, golf, track and field, volleyball and women's softball.
Getting a foothold into the Chicago market also was a major factor. Smart said an annual opportunity to connect with MSU's alumni base at sporting events "is huge" as it is for the Valley in terms of earning new sponsorship opportunities from that area.
"
So all of those factors made it an easy choice," Smart said.Expansion likely is done for now, but Smart said the league could take a serious look at adding two more teams in the "next couple of three years."
Creighton announced last month it was leaving the Valley to join the new Big East Conference. This will be the first time the Valley has expanded since adding Evansville in 1994.
The school made a splash over the weekend by hiring former Sheryl Swoopes, a former All-American at Texas Tech and star WNBA player, as its new women's basketball coach.
How'd that "splash" work out for them?? :o Must have cost them a bunch to hire her. Glad they have lots of money...
Quote from: vu72 on April 02, 2017, 10:23:33 AM
The school made a splash over the weekend by hiring former Sheryl Swoopes, a former All-American at Texas Tech and star WNBA player, as its new women's basketball coach.
How'd that "splash" work out for them?? :o Must have cost them a bunch to hire her. Glad they have lots of money...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-loyola-fires-sheryl-swoopes-spt-0704-20160703-story.html
Loyola fires Sheryl Swoopes after investigating claims of player mistreatmentBy: Shannon RyanContact Reporter
Chicago Tribune
July 4, 2016
Loyola's lengthy investigation into allegations of player mistreatment by women's basketball coach Sheryl Swoopes ended Sunday evening with a three-sentence statement announcing Swoopes has been fired.
Swoopes, a Hall of Fame player regarded as one of the greatest to play the sport, had been under the microscope since April, when Loyola announced it had launched a university investigation after a rash of player transfers. The school later hired a law firm to assist with the investigation and interviewing of players.
....
Quote from: VU2014 on April 02, 2017, 11:09:35 AM
Quote from: vu72 on April 02, 2017, 10:23:33 AM
The school made a splash over the weekend by hiring former Sheryl Swoopes, a former All-American at Texas Tech and star WNBA player, as its new women's basketball coach.
How'd that "splash" work out for them?? :o Must have cost them a bunch to hire her. Glad they have lots of money...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-loyola-fires-sheryl-swoopes-spt-0704-20160703-story.html
Loyola fires Sheryl Swoopes after investigating claims of player mistreatment
By: Shannon RyanContact Reporter
Chicago Tribune
July 4, 2016
Loyola's lengthy investigation into allegations of player mistreatment by women's basketball coach Sheryl Swoopes ended Sunday evening with a three-sentence statement announcing Swoopes has been fired.
Swoopes, a Hall of Fame player regarded as one of the greatest to play the sport, had been under the microscope since April, when Loyola announced it had launched a university investigation after a rash of player transfers. The school later hired a law firm to assist with the investigation and interviewing of players.
....
If the MVC doesn't realize they made a massive mistake by going with markets, facilities, and women basketball coaches instead of actual success, then we don't want to be in that conference.
Had Valpo been in a better league last year, they would have most likely been an at-large team. Mid major at-large quality teams are hard to come by, and they blew their shot at more ncaa tournament money, and a potential of having THREE bids.
I've always held the belief that facilities at the Mid-Major level are vastly overrated, and don't really correlate with success. I think Valpo proves this point by being at the top of the league consistently with the worst facilities. Coaches and culture are by far the primary driver of recruiting... NOT facilities. Valpo has the 2nd highest budget in the league and has put their resources into coaching and recruiting, not bathrooms and concessions.
A number of concerning issues regarding the University/athletic dept lead me to believe the window is slowly closing:
1) an absolutely dull facility; sorry, but I have to believe that plays a significant role in recruiting. Would you rather live in a 600 square foot apartment with no dishwasher, no A/C, and a leaky roof or a 3,000 square foot house with modern amenities? Few choose to work/live like a hobo.
2) the majority of the fan base (STHs) is in their 70's/80's. Considering the discussed apathy of the student population, the ARC could be a library in ten years.
3) lack of institutional support. ML's comments scream that the problem is over his head.
Valpo just graduated that once in a generation player and have nothing to show for it but a 2nd place trophy in a 2nd place tournament, and a loss in the real tournament.
It may be years - if ever - before we see another Bryce or Alec, the type of player who can elevate a program despite their institution yawning in their face.
I think what Vinny gets at is what I've found troubling: I sense an alarming state of complacency among the university (and even some longtime fans) that the basketball program will keep rolling on auto-pilot -- facilities, conference and investment be darned. That is a very, very dangerous mindset for a mid-major program.
Ask Ball State how easy it is to get the mojo back once you've lost it at this level. They were one of the top mid-major programs in the nation for a good 15 year stretch. One low-ball offer to a winning coach, followed by bad hire and lack of investment in the program, and now they are staring at their 18th straight year without an NCAA bid. They finally seem to be getting back on track, but it's taken years.
Valpo is at a critical juncture for the future success and stability of the program right now. Hope enough people in charge recognize that.
As for Ball State, it is a real shame to go into their Worthen Arena that seats about 12,000 and see crowds around 1500 to sometimes 4,000. The facility is great but their poor coaching hires and quality of recruits left much to be desired during their one or two year success and going to the Sweet 16. I sure wouldn't call their program a successful mid-major one for a 15 year period or so. They couldn't even sell out the venue for their games vs. Butler in recent years. The last two games when we played them had crowds of around 2500 or so. I have never checked actual figures but I wouldn't be surprised if we averaged more in attendance than BSU in recent years.
The Cardinals "tweet tweet" has turned into a "peep peep" recently for BSU.
I do recall discussion in the past few years about an expansion on the north side of the ARC (behind the chairbacks) with new bathroom facilities, concessions, and a lobby area that would be accessible for both football AND basketball games. And then future seating being built above this addition even further down the road.
They do show the expansion in the campus Master Plan...
I wouldn't exactly call that "no plans", just maybe no immediate construction plans.
QuoteI sure wouldn't call their program a successful mid-major one for a 15 year period or so.
Not recently. But from 1989 to 2002, their program went to 5 NCAA tournaments (including the Sweet 16 and a first-round win another season), 4 NIT tournaments (reaching the quarterfinals in a season where they beat Kansas, UCLA and LSU), and spent parts of four different seasons ranked in the Top 25. In the pre-George Mason/Butler/Wichita era, that was about as good of a mid-major program as you could find. They used to routinely draw 7-8K fans per game prior to their program falling off the map in 2004 or so. (True story - Homer used the game tape of BSU's convincing win over Mississippi in Muncie earlier in the '98 season as a blueprint for the famous VU tourney victory that year).
One of the biggest reasons BSU had such a dramatic fall is that the administration and some old-time fans took the program's success for granted. (Always taking the cheapest option, shortchanging training facilities and amenities in the arena, convincing themselves that a winning coach who was an alum would never leave -- sound familiar?, a group of local season-ticket holders spiking a donor-priority seating plan that would've raised hundreds of thousands per year in additional revenue for the program, and on and on). This was compounded by some other dumb decisions (no advertising allowed in their athletic venues until the mid-2000's, because one of the university executives thought it looked ugly, for example).
It's not a perfect parallel to Valpo, but it is a cautionary tale against the belief (held by too many people in and around Valpo right now) that a program can be successful indefinitely without the proper investment and care.
The most recent addition of Union Street Hoops podcast had a fair amount of discussion concerning facilities. Mark said that to move forward with major projects, a major donor needs to be found. He made it clear that the first step is the Rec Center which he noted was a vital need as 85% of students participate in one or more intramural sports. The cost? 20-22 mil. There have been alumni who have contributed sizable amounts to athletics and specifically for sports in which they competed. For example, a football alum paid for the new football weight room. If you haven't seen it you should. Coach C told me the only difference between our football weight room and Notre Dame's is the size. Ours is pretty big. I'm guessing hundreds of thousands to complete. Then there is the new football locker room. Again funded by a football alum. Cost? No idea but many thousands for sure. And so it goes. He mentioned that the sport complex is a significant part of the new Master Plan. It is who will step up. Football has the advantage of having many more player alums then say, basketball.
That still side-steps the biggest obstacle to athletic facilities (and by extension athletiic program) improvement -- MLB is not authorized, at this point in time, by the VU higher ups to put together a publicized fund raising campaign specifically for athletics that identifies a detailed plan going forward and the associated costs. Sure, the rec center has a ballpark cost ($22 million) but where is the schematic that illustrates what it actually will be? They haven't even authorized designs for that much less rennovation of the ARC. All it needs is a forceful president to face the board and say, " we need to grow NOW and the immediate vehicle is our athletic program. We need to ride that pony until it is proven not to be effective." Essentially, our president has to pull the heads of our board out of the sand and expose them to the realities of 2017. The longer this come-to-reality is postponed or ignored places the entire university at considerable risk of becoming irrelevant and joining St. Joes as a memory.
Was just listening to Union Street Hoops and Mark LaBarbera's explanation/realities of a renovated facility and I was a little surprise that it sounded like it was completely up to AD to raise ALL the $ for the Renovation/New Rec Center!
Big time donations usually don't happen with out the President throwing weight to it and making it happen. I don't see this happening unless President Heckler decides he wants to take Basketball seriously and take the next step for his charter sport for his school.
We bought into D-I awhile back. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Drop back to D-III. BUT WAIT! Most D-III schools have better athletic facilities than Valpo because they realize their importance in todays competitive collegiate world.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 03, 2017, 05:43:10 PM
We bought into D-I awhile back. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Drop back to D-III. BUT WAIT! Most D-III schools have better athletic facilities than Valpo because they realize their importance in todays competitive collegiate world.
Yeah, it sucks our basketball program is so terrible because of facilities and teams like Drake with new rec centers are consistently out recruiting us because they take athletics seriously.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 03, 2017, 05:41:00 PM
Was just listening to Union Street Hoops and Mark LaBarbera's explanation/realities of a renovated facility and I was a little surprise that it sounded like it was completely up to AD to raise ALL the $ for the Renovation/New Rec Center!
Big time donations usually don't happen with out the President throwing weight to it and making it happen. I don't see this happening unless President Heckler decides he wants to take Basketball seriously and take the next step for his charter sport for his school.
How isn't Heckler taking basketball seriously? Not spending $30,000,000 at a regional Lutheran university makes it not serious?
I love the passion, I too have it. But when it comes to facilities I don't follow y'all. New floor, new locker room, new floor upstairs in the practice gym...these are positive steps for a President who doesn't take basketball seriously. Butler captured lightning in a bottle AND is in a city far far larger than our beloved Valparaiso. Same with Gonzaga.
I think it's time to recognize it ain't going to be done without the Drews or similar ppl ponying up large sums of money. I'm tapped, no more cents left in my couch ....you guys,
I agree with ML, a rec-center is FAR AND AWAY more important to a strong campus lifestyle. Best $24,000,000 VU could spend now that other sizable upgrades are complete (sports or otherwise).
Keep up the GREAT WORK ML and Coach, sustained relevance is a real thing too. How many years 20+ wins since the year 2000? (16)?
Nice Facilities are not a direct correlation to winning but I'd imagine they sure do help when it comes recruiting and become a selling point to Recruits, Coaches, Other Conferences and Fans.
Heckler and the Board should start taking the Basketball Team more seriously. We are pretty well funded in terms of annual budget per year but its time to step and make big commitment with the facilities. The Rec Center isn't just for Athletics, its for the whole student body and the students experience. Administration just seems to be kicking the can down road.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 03, 2017, 06:02:44 PM
Nice Facilities are not a direct correlation to winning but I'd imagine they sure do help when it comes recruiting and become a selling point to Recruits, Coaches, Other Conferences and Fans.
Heckler and the Board should start taking the Basketball Team more seriously. We are pretty well funded in terms of annual budget per year but its time to step and make big commitment with the facilities. The Rec Center isn't just for Athletics, its for the whole student body and the students experience. Administration just seems to be kicking the can down road.
btw VU2014, I enjoy your contributions so don't take my disagreement the wrong way.
If Heckler isn't behind a rec-center I strongly disagree with his logic. ML made a strong point that > 80% of the student body uses our intramurals / physical education facilities in their 4-years.
This is exaggerated because it includes physical education which I felt was required for many majors to take a unit of this as a general education requirement. Still, intramurals were big back in the early 2000s.
Quote from: a3uge on April 03, 2017, 05:46:02 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 03, 2017, 05:43:10 PM
We bought into D-I awhile back. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Drop back to D-III. BUT WAIT! Most D-III schools have better athletic facilities than Valpo because they realize their importance in todays competitive collegiate world.
Yeah, it sucks our basketball program is so terrible because of facilities and teams like Drake with new rec centers are consistently out recruiting us because they take athletics seriously.
Its not that our MBB sucks. We've been pretty damn good as reflected by how difficult it is to get people to play us. It's that we are stuck, we are plateaued. We need something to get us over the hump. What else, other than improved facilities, can help us make that jump? We spend competitively on MBB operations. We have a pretty good winning tradition in mid major MBB. But we still lose out on some players who would help to get us over the hump (Alec excluded, but he was kind of a surprise based on the recruiting experts, right?). Why? We get great kids to pay for us, no question. We've improved on many fronts. Yet, we are stuck. IMO, we are a small time program that has overachieved year after year. We are the poster child for the little engine that could. I love it, but that can only carry you so far. In that respect, I like the Ball State comparison. That could be us despite Matt's great effort in the next couple of years. I know we are close to losing it in MSO, as we nearly lost Avery to an Ivy last year. We are gambling on loyalty and luck, but that only goes so far. The university has to commit to being D-I (2017 version) or not. Simple as that.
I would think it's the AD's job to identify and recruit the lead donor. Maybe this person or these people just doesn't exist right now. I'd imagine that athletes are the toughest to get donations from.
I'm not sure about the BSU and VU comparison. BSU , a State school, has an enrollment of close to 20,000.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 01, 2017, 09:55:03 PM
Past and current administrations at Valpo have clearly sent a message: When something is a priority we get it done.
The ARC is not a priority. End of story.
I agree with this but I still hold out hope that the attitude of the board can be changed to that at least a successful MBB program can help bring about the "real" goals of the board.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 03, 2017, 05:43:10 PM
We bought into D-I awhile back. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Drop back to D-III. BUT WAIT! Most D-III schools have better athletic facilities than Valpo because they realize their importance in todays competitive collegiate world.
If you want to honor setshot/JJ you would have included nepotism.....but that element moved on to Vandy :-)
Drake's athletic facility is nice but nothing really special. But the size and practicality of the facility is ideal for Valpo.
Noe the track stadium there is awesome...
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 03, 2017, 09:20:54 PM
Drake's athletic facility is nice but nothing really special. But the size and practicality of the facility is ideal for Valpo.
Noe the track stadium there is awesome...
How on earth is this "nothing special" for a mid major: http://www.invisionarch.com/project/drake-university-basketball-practice-facility/ (click view photos).
Quote from: a3uge on April 03, 2017, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 03, 2017, 09:20:54 PM
Drake's athletic facility is nice but nothing really special. But the size and practicality of the facility is ideal for Valpo.
Noe the track stadium there is awesome...
How on earth is this "nothing special" for a mid major: http://www.invisionarch.com/project/drake-university-basketball-practice-facility/ (click view photos).
Drake same student body as VU. Des Moines IA population 210,000 ppl. Metro area 600,000+.
No professional sports in IA.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 03, 2017, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 03, 2017, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 03, 2017, 09:20:54 PM
Drake's athletic facility is nice but nothing really special. But the size and practicality of the facility is ideal for Valpo.
Noe the track stadium there is awesome...
How on earth is this "nothing special" for a mid major: http://www.invisionarch.com/project/drake-university-basketball-practice-facility/ (click view photos).
Drake same student body as VU. Des Moines IA population 210,000 ppl. Metro area 600,000+.
No professional sports in IA.
What's your point?
Quote from: a3uge on April 03, 2017, 10:46:49 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 03, 2017, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 03, 2017, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 03, 2017, 09:20:54 PM
Drake's athletic facility is nice but nothing really special. But the size and practicality of the facility is ideal for Valpo.
Noe the track stadium there is awesome...
How on earth is this "nothing special" for a mid major: http://www.invisionarch.com/project/drake-university-basketball-practice-facility/ (click view photos).
Drake same student body as VU. Des Moines IA population 210,000 ppl. Metro area 600,000+.
No professional sports in IA.
What's your point?
Statement of the facts. We have been talking about Butler and Gonzaga and how they are large population centers, much like Drake.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 03, 2017, 11:06:05 PMWe have been talking about Butler and Gonzaga and how they are large population centers, much like Drake.
Large Bulldog populations?
(http://www.champbulldogs.com/images/avail.hed%20British%20Bulldog%20picture.jpg)
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 03, 2017, 11:06:05 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 03, 2017, 10:46:49 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 03, 2017, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: a3uge on April 03, 2017, 09:32:31 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 03, 2017, 09:20:54 PM
Drake's athletic facility is nice but nothing really special. But the size and practicality of the facility is ideal for Valpo.
Noe the track stadium there is awesome...
How on earth is this "nothing special" for a mid major: http://www.invisionarch.com/project/drake-university-basketball-practice-facility/ (click view photos).
Drake same student body as VU. Des Moines IA population 210,000 ppl. Metro area 600,000+.
No professional sports in IA.
What's your point?
Statement of the facts. We have been talking about Butler and Gonzaga and how they are large population centers, much like Drake.
Your facts prove the point that Drake is in a smaller
MSA population area with a much lower population density per square mile when considering the entire 5 counties. The 5 counties that make up the Northwest Indiana Region has a population of 819,537. I don't think that is what you were trying to say. Maybe this helps...
Population within a 25 mile radius of Drake University 475,576
Population within a 25 mile radius of Valparaiso University 721,012
Population within a 20 mile radius of Drake University 447,908
Population within a 20 mile radius of Valparaiso University 443,366
Population within a 15 mile radius of Drake University 410,277
Population within a 15 mile radius of Valparaiso University 231,975
If you are willing to drive 30 minutes to go to a game, VU has at least as many if not a higher population to pull from than Drake. If not, then Drake has a serious advantage with a higher population in a closer proximity to the school.
Population tool: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm (https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm)
Quote from: FWalum on April 04, 2017, 01:42:52 PM
Your facts prove the point that Drake is in a smaller MSA population area with a much lower population density per square mile when considering the entire 5 counties. The 5 counties that make up the Northwest Indiana Region has a population of 819,537. I don't think that is what you were trying to say. Maybe this helps...
Population within a 25 mile radius of Drake University 475,576
Population within a 25 mile radius of Valparaiso University 721,012
Population within a 20 mile radius of Drake University 447,908
Population within a 20 mile radius of Valparaiso University 443,366
Population within a 15 mile radius of Drake University 410,277
Population within a 15 mile radius of Valparaiso University 231,975
If you are willing to drive 30 minutes to go to a game, VU has at least as many if not a higher population to pull from than Drake. If not, then Drake has a serious advantage with a higher population in a closer proximity to the school.
Population tool: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm (https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm)
The problem lies in the name of the universities. "Valparaiso," because it's name is associated with the city in which it resides, is a hostile and culturally unwelcoming name to those from other cities and townships. Drake is more inclusive. I propose we change the name of the university to Vicuña University.
Quote from: Valpower on April 04, 2017, 02:17:53 PM
Quote from: FWalum on April 04, 2017, 01:42:52 PM
Your facts prove the point that Drake is in a smaller MSA population area with a much lower population density per square mile when considering the entire 5 counties. The 5 counties that make up the Northwest Indiana Region has a population of 819,537. I don't think that is what you were trying to say. Maybe this helps...
Population within a 25 mile radius of Drake University 475,576
Population within a 25 mile radius of Valparaiso University 721,012
Population within a 20 mile radius of Drake University 447,908
Population within a 20 mile radius of Valparaiso University 443,366
Population within a 15 mile radius of Drake University 410,277
Population within a 15 mile radius of Valparaiso University 231,975
If you are willing to drive 30 minutes to go to a game, VU has at least as many if not a higher population to pull from than Drake. If not, then Drake has a serious advantage with a higher population in a closer proximity to the school.
Population tool: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm (https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm)
The problem lies in the name of the universities. "Valparaiso," because it's name is associated with the city in which it resides, is a hostile and culturally unwelcoming name to those from other cities and townships. Drake is more inclusive. I propose we change the name of the university to Vicuña University.
You make solid points but also are misreading intent. My bigger concern is how many ppl are coming from the IL side of the border to the ARC? And more so, what is there to do in Des Moines in Dec-Feb on a game night?
Unfortunately, media has changed how we all engage with our college teams. If I lived within 20 miles of VU (as an Alumni) I'd be there 6+ times a year. I live 65 miles away so that shrinks to 3 games a year.
Then add in the TV contracts and I could get away with 0 games at the ARC / year. Sadly this is the trend. I'm most concerned with the fact that VU is only truly (potentially) pulling in Munster and East...
All assumptions, but I think fair. Maybe Des Moines, Spokane and Indy have more butts in the seats because of culture, population density, lack of distractions that the Chicago suburbs offer.
I think the real problem is VU depends on locals to buy tickets. Is local interest declining along with student body distractions/ESPN3?
My original point with mentioning Drake was that they have decent facilities, but suck at basketball.
I noticed that 1st Source Bank just tore down their branch bank facility at the corner of Vale Park and Calumet (probably built in the '80's. They are replacing it with a nearly identical sized structure. Pretty dumb, huh?
Think small.
Quote from: wh on April 08, 2017, 03:11:13 PM
I noticed that 1st Source Bank just tore down their branch bank facility at the corner of Vale Park and Calumet (probably built in the '80's. They are replacing it with a nearly identical sized structure. Pretty dumb, huh?
Think small.
I'm not putting up any money to make an oversized bank in a digital banking world. Bank branches are better in multitude or mobile accessibility. Glad they plan to stay invested in the community though.
Check this out. University of Southern Indiana is getting a DII school (Great Lakes Valley Conference (same former Conf as NKU)) will break ground in May on the first of a two-phase, $57 million renovation of the Physical Activities Center – supplying its basketball and volleyball programs with a state-of-the-art arena that seats 4,000. There are currently 69 Division I gyms that are smaller than that.
I didn't even know where USI was located. I had to look it up. They are in Evansville Indiana.
If Valpo were to leave the Horizon League this seems like a very LeCrone type target down the road. If Valpo were to leave its been speculated that LeCrone wants to continue justifying the League offices being in Indianapolis being so far away from the rest of the schools (but that is also where NCAA offices are). My guess is his Targets are Omaha and Denver and maybe try and steal 2 of the Dakotas (highly unlikely) and try again to steal Belmont (not happening either ("kings" of a terrible OVC if Murray left). USI maybe could be a target and travel partner for NKU.
But damn do I wish we could get a brand $57M facility (use that amount of $ for a Rec Center and major facelift the ARC...). USI is a D2 school!
https://twitter.com/ecp_Hickey/status/855888284731486212
http://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/southern-indiana/2017/04/22/renovation-does-not-signal-d--aspirations-usi/100788962/
Renovation does not signal D-I aspirations for USI
Pat Hickey , pat.hickey@courierpress.com 3:41 p.m. CT April 22, 2017
Last month, former NCAA Division II Great Lakes Valley Conference member Northern Kentucky University earned the Horizon League's automatic bid into the Division I men's basketball tournament in its first year of eligibility.
Meanwhile, the fan reaction from current GLVC member University of Southern Indiana was: That could be us someday.
Television deals and other factors continue to realign Division I conferences.
Recently, Wichita State left the Missouri Valley for greener pastures in the American Athletic. Its departure creates a trickle-down effect and the MVC could seek expansion beyond simply replacing the Shockers. Valparaiso (Horizon) and Murray State (Ohio Valley) have been speculated to be leading candidates, and then those conferences would need to find replacements.
USI will break ground in May on the first of a two-phase, $57 million renovation of the Physical Activities Center – supplying its basketball and volleyball programs with a state-of-the-art arena that seats 4,000. There are currently 69 Division I gyms that are smaller than that.
With all that said, is the university actively looking to follow in the footsteps of NKU and others that have made the jump? The answer right now remains: never say never, but it's not being discussed right now.
"Our main focus right now is taking the programs we have and putting them in a position to compete for NCAA championships on a more regular basis," USI Athletic Director Jon Mark Hall said. "We don't really talk Division I, but I do think once the new facility is finished then you can check off one thing that maybe we needed to get ourselves to a certain level."
Unquestionably, the renovation will help attract more recruits. Much like some decide if they'd rather play for a weak Division I or strong Division II program, that is also something that schools looking to make the jump up or step down consider.
The biggest challenge is funding – not just whether USI could compete in a conference like the Horizon or OVC. There is a hefty fee in applying to the NCAA for reclassification. Then, on average, schools need an athletic budget of about $3 million annually to commit to making that leap.
USI's budget is in the middle of the pack in the GLVC and likely the same in Division II.
But the new PAC (which will be renamed) will be one box checked off if an opportunity presents itself.
"It's just one piece to the puzzle," Hall said. "If there is a time the leadership of this institution wanted to go play and compete at the Division I level then you'd have some facilities on campus that would be close to being ready to go."
SMALL SHAKEUP IN THE GLVC
While Division II conferences are more stable than Division I, there is still some movement happening.
The eight-school Great Midwest Athletic Conference, featuring Kentucky Wesleyan, will add six institutions next school year: Findlay, Hillsdale, Lake Erie, Ohio Dominican and Walsh, followed by Tiffin in 2018-19.
With Saint Joseph's College having suspended operations, the GLVC is not expected to immediately replace the school. Unofficially, it will be rearranged back to three divisions of five teams.
East: Southern Indiana, Bellarmine, Indianapolis, Wisconsin-Parkside and Lewis.
Central: Quincy, Illinois Springfield, Maryville, McKendree and Missouri-St. Louis.
West: Truman State, Drury, Rockhurst, William Jewell and Missouri S&T.
"The (men's and women's basketball) coaches met (Thursday) in St. Louis," Hall said. "I think the presidents will have the schedules in front of them shortly to finalize, but that's what it's looking like."
GLVC men's and women's basketball operated with three divisions in 2009-10 and '10-11. USI was in a powerhouse East Division with KWC, NKU, Bellarmine and UIndy.
NEW PROGRAM ON THE WAY?
USI has finished 24th and 25th the past two years in the Division II Learfield Directors' Cup standings, which is an all-sports trophy with points awarded for NCAA tournament success.
They are the two best finishes for USI since the award began in 1995-96. Currently, the Eagles are ranked 24th and second in the GLVC behind Drury.
The athletic department's next goal is a top 10 finish and then ultimately a championship. But it's at a disadvantage without programs in football, swimming and diving, wrestling and lacrosse. Among those, Hall said they would considering adding swimming and diving in the near future.
"That's one we'll really take a hard look at and see if that's something we could add," Hall said. "Right now, we're not really in a position to add sports there isn't a conference championship in. I think there's a pretty good recruiting base around here for it and definitely interest. Adding sports isn't an inexpensive proposition but swimming and diving is something we'll look into."
Valpo had better get it in gear.
Quote from: Valpower on April 04, 2017, 02:17:53 PM
Quote from: FWalum on April 04, 2017, 01:42:52 PM
Your facts prove the point that Drake is in a smaller MSA population area with a much lower population density per square mile when considering the entire 5 counties. The 5 counties that make up the Northwest Indiana Region has a population of 819,537. I don't think that is what you were trying to say. Maybe this helps...
Population within a 25 mile radius of Drake University 475,576
Population within a 25 mile radius of Valparaiso University 721,012
Population within a 20 mile radius of Drake University 447,908
Population within a 20 mile radius of Valparaiso University 443,366
Population within a 15 mile radius of Drake University 410,277
Population within a 15 mile radius of Valparaiso University 231,975
If you are willing to drive 30 minutes to go to a game, VU has at least as many if not a higher population to pull from than Drake. If not, then Drake has a serious advantage with a higher population in a closer proximity to the school.
Population tool: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm (https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm)
The problem lies in the name of the universities. "Valparaiso," because it's name is associated with the city in which it resides, is a hostile and culturally unwelcoming name to those from other cities and townships. Drake is more inclusive. I propose we change the name of the university to Vicuña University.
Alright, alright, alriiiiight!!!!!
Ok, just throwing this out there again... with the news that the Star Plaza Theatre is closing for good after all, I'm wondering if it would make sense for VU to at least check in on the feasibility of a city-university partnership on a new arena on the old hospital property. This was briefly discussed in 2007 or 2008, then promptly dropped when the financial crisis occurred.
However, with the news about the Star Plaza going away, there is going to be a definite market need for a concert and event venue for NWI, which a new arena in Valpo could fill.
Worth a conversation, at least.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on June 17, 2017, 10:21:08 PM
Ok, just throwing this out there again... with the news that the Star Plaza Theatre is closing for good after all, I'm wondering if it would make sense for VU to at least check in on the feasibility of a city-university partnership on a new arena on the old hospital property. This was briefly discussed in 2007 or 2008, then promptly dropped when the financial crisis occurred.
However, with the news about the Star Plaza going away, there is going to be a definite market need for a concert and event venue for NWI, which a new arena in Valpo could fill.
Worth a conversation, at least.
If Valpo is indeed a Chicago suburb as some on this board have stated, then there is no need. Just take a quick drive to Chicagos premier event centers.
But seriously, I don't think the population could support this idea. I'm not even sure how Ft Wayne is justifying their new event center/arena.
I'd really like it to happen, but Valparaiso is still too low on the population totem pole. Fun fact, that phrase is actually wrong. The bottom totems were highly revered and with great detail whereas the top of the totem pole was less revered and for good reason...no one can see ornate detail that high up!
Yeah I don't see it happening either. Just wouldn't make financial sense for the City. It would have to be a very modest arena. It's also not a great location for a major events center, either.
Maybe the University & the City could come together to building a Student/Community Recreational Center/Pool?
Many suburban communities park-districts offer community gym/pool/basketball courts, etc. I'm not sure if the city already has a Park District Gym or not, but I do know there has been talk about the City wanting a community pool. Maybe the University could offer the land & split the $ for the Pool/Gym/Rec Center with the Community.
Valparaiso University could split the facility with the community and maybe it would make more economical sense for the community & the University. Would also be another great way to engage the surrounding community with the University.
A few thoughts...
Drake's Knapp Center is seriously not outstanding. It does its purpose and is better than the ARC.Also, despite being in Des Moines, the attendance at the games are in the 2000 to 3000 range, basically because their performance has been subpar. also, there is much more interest in Iowa State hoops which is only a 40 min drive.
Second, hasn't there been some historical animosity between Valparaiso university and the city? Collaborating to build a facility may be difficult.
Quote from: usc4valpo on June 18, 2017, 03:23:15 PM
A few thoughts...
Drake's Knapp Center is seriously not outstanding. It does its purpose and is better than the ARC.Also, despite being in Des Moines, the attendance at the games are in the 2000 to 3000 range, basically because their performance has been subpar. also, there is much more interest in Iowa State hoops which is only a 40 min drive.
Second, hasn't there been some historical animosity between Valparaiso university and the city? Collaborating to build a facility may be difficult.
[/b]
Don't know but kinda doubt it. When I pulled up information on Valparaiso's City Council, the background picture was of Valpo's Chapel! Next, the mayor and at least two other members are Valpo grads.
Quote from: vu72 on June 18, 2017, 04:09:03 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on June 18, 2017, 03:23:15 PM
A few thoughts...
Drake's Knapp Center is seriously not outstanding. It does its purpose and is better than the ARC.Also, despite being in Des Moines, the attendance at the games are in the 2000 to 3000 range, basically because their performance has been subpar. also, there is much more interest in Iowa State hoops which is only a 40 min drive.
Second, hasn't there been some historical animosity between Valparaiso university and the city? Collaborating to build a facility may be difficult.
[/b]
Don't know but kinda doubt it. When I pulled up information on Valparaiso's City Council, the background picture was of Valpo's Chapel! Next, the mayor and at least two other members are Valpo grads.
I don't live in Valpo anymore but it always seemed like the Mayor and the University have been on very good terms while I went to school. They seemed in lock-step when the University bought the hospital property & the worthless parking garage.
Valparaiso University was also a 'good neighbor' by caving to the city by not allowing parking on the streets surrounding the ARC and causing more inconvenience to Fan-base...
No doubt working out the funding/politics of approving shared Community/Student Rec Center/gym/pool would be pretty tough to hammer out any negotiation but it could benefit both parties if they could work it out. Would be a win for the University because the fundraising is the main obstacle and they'd be able to share the costs.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 18, 2017, 08:44:30 PM
Quote from: vu72 on June 18, 2017, 04:09:03 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on June 18, 2017, 03:23:15 PM
A few thoughts...
Drake's Knapp Center is seriously not outstanding. It does its purpose and is better than the ARC.Also, despite being in Des Moines, the attendance at the games are in the 2000 to 3000 range, basically because their performance has been subpar. also, there is much more interest in Iowa State hoops which is only a 40 min drive.
Second, hasn't there been some historical animosity between Valparaiso university and the city? Collaborating to build a facility may be difficult.
[/b]
Don't know but kinda doubt it. When I pulled up information on Valparaiso's City Council, the background picture was of Valpo's Chapel! Next, the mayor and at least two other members are Valpo grads.
I don't live in Valpo anymore but it always seemed like the Mayor and the University have been on very good terms while I went to school. They seemed in lock-step when the University bought the hospital property & the worthless parking garage.
Valparaiso University was also a 'good neighbor' by caving to the city by not allowing parking on the streets surrounding the ARC and causing more inconvenience to Fan-base...
No doubt working out the funding/politics of approving shared Community/Student Rec Center/gym/pool would be pretty tough to hammer out any negotiation but it could benefit both parties if they could work it out. Would be a win for the University because the fundraising is the main obstacle and they'd be able to share the costs.
Yeah, the relationship between the city and university is fine...kind of like people/neighbors, a hiccup every now and then, but overall good neighbors. Although, I must admit that I have always gotten along with my neighbors everywhere I have lived!!! :thumbsup:
Some of you may know that I was a part of a group of investors that had hoped to build an arena at S.R. 2 and 49. In fighting within the group led to the main money people going to Fargo to purchase what was then called the UPC Arena. What we had planned on doing was contacting the city, and possibly the University, about going into the proposed arena. Anyway, it may be best handled by a joint private and public investment into some kind of arena plan. Ours was simple in the first and second phases, though the third phase was monumental. It would have used an existing building and a lobby in the first phase and the one or two buildings in the second phase. There would have been at least two ice sheets which would have been served by one large refrigeration unit. Adding the third ice sheet may have made our operations cost too much to handle in those early stages. We had two committed tenants and some interested local figure skating coaches. Revenue would have come from those rentals and open skating...and hopefully youth and adult leagues managed by the Valparaiso Parks Department. Sadly, things ended so quickly that we never contacted the city.
I wanted to add to the discussion on the alcohol debate from another page. We were going to acquire a beer and wine license on our own with the possibility of adding a catering company to run the third stage club and suite level for liquor sales not in the regular arena seating areas. The beer and wine license would have been easy as it would not have counted against the counties amount of licenses. It would have been a state license expressly for arenas and stadiums...and the like. That is all I can think of right now...
Indiana State Head Coach Greg Lansing said something very interesting on the MVC Coaches Teleconference...
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/877187661605339136
Is something in the works that we don't know about? Did Valparaiso give a promise to the Missouri Valley to upgrade the facilities? My guess is not,
https://twitter.com/selliottWLWT/status/877189369400107008
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/877190004971380736
https://twitter.com/HoopvilleAdam/status/877190305275142144
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/877195964813107200
Quote from: VU2014 on June 20, 2017, 10:36:37 AM
Indiana State Head Coach Greg Lansing said something very interesting on the MVC Coaches Teleconference...
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/877187661605339136
Is something in the works that we don't know about? Did Valparaiso give a promise to the Missouri Valley to upgrade the facilities? My guess is not,
Seems like a misguided concern, coming from someone who just had their rollover cancelled:
http://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/isu-men-s-basketball-coach-greg-lansing-has-contract-rollover/article_665bcd26-f872-5b36-9b3e-eb53f50f2191.html
People are too quick to pass judgement and too slow to self reflect.
I think you guys are overreacting. I asked him the question. I was looking for how the ARC compared to the rest of the facilities in the Valley. I thought he gave a thoughtful answer. IMO.
Quote from: Pgmado on June 20, 2017, 02:21:44 PM
I think you guys are overreacting. I asked him the question. I was looking for how the ARC compared to the rest of the facilities in the Valley. I thought he gave a thoughtful answer. IMO.
Possibly. Felt like a mild-shot with a bit candid honesty from Lansing.
I think the Athletics Department knows we need to renovate the ARC and see improvements but we're not going to see that happen till they find a lead donor.
I was thinking he may have been messaging to recruits. We are starting to recruit a lot of the same guys like Deavion Washington (Terre Haute native) and Walter Ellis (South Bend). Maybe it was just an off-handed comment with little thought.
Quote from: Pgmado on June 20, 2017, 02:21:44 PMI think you guys are overreacting
The Delta House argument. "He can't say that about our facilities only we can say that about our facilities."
Fact is that he just said the same stuff we've been saying for quite some time ourselves. What's the big deal? He also could have said the parking around the ARC sucks, but he didn't.
Would you rather have a nice renovated ARC and a .500 record for the past decade in the HL? Or have the current ARC and win the HL half the time? I think most would answer they would rather have the championships. After all, thats what got us the HL and then the MVC. It's people not the house.....
I think we make too much our sun par ARC
Quote from: VU75 on June 20, 2017, 05:03:30 PM
The Delta House argument. "He can't say that about our facilities only we can say that about our facilities."
Classic. I think Flounder just passed away the other day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Dy2fo6E_pI
Quote from: oklahomamick on June 20, 2017, 09:32:06 PM
Would you rather have a nice renovated ARC and a .500 record for the past decade in the HL? Or have the current ARC and win the HL half the time? I think most would answer they would rather have the championships. After all, thats what got us the HL and then the MVC. It's people not the house.....
I think we make too much our sun par ARC
Agreed.
Great People > Facilities
Quote from: oklahomamick on June 20, 2017, 09:32:06 PMWould you rather have a nice renovated ARC and a .500 record for the past decade in the HL? Or have the current ARC and win the HL half the time? I think most would answer they would rather have the championships. After all, thats what got us the HL and then the MVC. It's people not the house..... I think we make too much our sun par ARC
I'd rather have both. No reason we should not have an above average facility with a winning record. They are not mutually exclusive. While a good facility does not equal good record, one can argue that a sub par facility can hinder on court performance. We have been able to overcome that up to this point and I have no doubt we can continue to do so, but at some point our facility needs to catch up. We are not the same team that we were in the 80's and early 90's by any stretch of the imagination. We are far better and more recognized as an athletics program. Our university has grown and become more prestigious as an academic institution in that time as well. New buildings pop up every year on campus. Yet the ARC has largely remained the same in that time period except for very minor updates along the way.
I am not advocating a new arena, but we should be past the point where new lights, a new floor and a scoreboard keep us complacent. There are some easy fixes that could be put in place to make the ARC a more modern facility (bowl seating in lower half with chairbacks all around, Updated concessions, utilize the space on the track around the upper half more effectively [i.e. suites]). A major renovation knocking out walls and such would be nice, but that's not happening any time soon. So do what is feasible today. This "my car sucks but I cant afford a BMW so I need to stick with what I have" mentality is not productive. Start making headway in things we can afford today.
Quote from: vuny98 on June 21, 2017, 09:40:58 AM
I'd rather have both. No reason we should not have an above average facility with a winning record. They are not mutually exclusive. While a good facility does not equal good record, one can argue that a sub par facility can hinder on court performance. We have been able to overcome that up to this point and I have no doubt we can continue to do so, but at some point our facility needs to catch up. We are not the same team that we were in the 80's and early 90's by any stretch of the imagination. We are far better and more recognized as an athletics program. Our university has grown and become more prestigious as an academic institution in that time as well. New buildings pop up every year on campus. Yet the ARC has largely remained the same in that time period except for very minor updates along the way.
I am not advocating a new arena, but we should be past the point where new lights, a new floor and a scoreboard keep us complacent. There are some easy fixes that could be put in place to make the ARC a more modern facility (bowl seating in lower half with chairbacks all around, Updated concessions, utilize the space on the track around the upper half more effectively [i.e. suites]). A major renovation knocking out walls and such would be nice, but that's not happening any time soon. So do what is feasible today. This "my car sucks but I cant afford a BMW so I need to stick with what I have" mentality is not productive. Start making headway in things we can afford today.
CC: Mark Heckler, Valparaiso University Board of Directors, Mark LaBarbera
Question.
Now that we are in the premier mid-major league in the mid-west, would a 6,000 seat ARC (expanded, renovated and sponsored -- e.g., Thrivent Arena) induce P-5 teams to possibly schedule a 2 for 1 with us?
If that would be the case, the crowds would, IMO, greatly improve. Basketball crazy NW Indiana would love to see Northwestern, Purdue, and others (maybe including Butler, DePaul, as well as, maybe ND and the Michigan state schools)' yes? And then there are the biggies outside of the 300 mile radius (2 for 1 with Stanford?).
Just wondering.
If it works out, it could put tiny, little Valpo on the national map for more reasons an just basketball.
I am a Lambeau Field tour guide.
In 1997 the Green Bay Packers faced bankruptcy and expulsion from the NFL by 2005 despite being the best W-L team of the 90s decade. President and CEO Bob Harlan faced a crossroads. How do we change the way we do business to remain competitive despite being the smallest city in the NFL? His vision was to expand Lambeau Field to attract visitors more than just 10 days a year.
The Packers found funds to expand Lambeau in 2003 and rocketed from 27th of 31 franchises to #7 of 32. Harlan's vision was similar to the field of dreams : if you build it it, they will come. He built it and they have come. We have had 1.5 million visitors on tours since 2003, and there are even more events and activities I am unable to list in this format . BTW, the Packers have competed off the field for the last decade in the top 10 since.
My point is not to invest $295 million, but to have a realistic vision and act on it. And, if we build to that vision, " they will come. "
Build it and they will come, in most cases, is a horrible strategy. Would you follow that strategy if your own money was involved and you were personally bankrupt if it failed?
Lambeau Field is a unique stadium akin to Wrigley Field or Fenway Park. Having an event there (concert, Wisconsin football game, etc.,) is special. Furthermore, even if the Packers were in a dire financial situation, they had a long list of people ready to buy season tickets if they became available. That was an unrealized asset that was ready to be exploited. Thus, adding seating made perfect sense.
I am in favor of renovating the ARC, but it has to have a realistic business model associated with it.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 28, 2017, 10:56:40 PM
I am a Lambeau Field tour guide.
In 1997 the Green Bay Packers faced bankruptcy and expulsion from the NFL by 2005 despite being the best W-L team of the 90s decade. President and CEO Bob Harlan faced a crossroads. How do we change the way we do business to remain competitive despite being the smallest city in the NFL? His vision was to expand Lambeau Field to attract visitors more than just 10 days a year.
The Packers found funds to expand Lambeau in 2003 and rocketed from 27th of 31 franchises to #7 of 32. Harlan's vision was similar to the field of dreams : if you build it it, they will come. He built it and they have come. We have had 1.5 million visitors on tours since 2003, and there are even more events and activities I am unable to list in this format . BTW, the Packers have competed off the field for the last decade in the top 10 since.
My point is not to invest $295 million, but to have a realistic vision and act on it. And, if we build to that vision, " they will come. "
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 30, 2017, 08:14:03 AM
Build it and they will come, in most cases, is a horrible strategy. Would you follow that strategy if your own money was involved and you were personally bankrupt if it failed?
Lambeau Field is a unique stadium akin to Wrigley Field or Fenway Park. Having an event there (concert, Wisconsin football game, etc.,) is special. Furthermore, even if the Packers were in a dire financial situation, they had a long list of people ready to buy season tickets if they became available. That was an unrealized asset that was ready to be exploited. Thus, adding seating made perfect sense.
I am in favor of renovating the ARC, but it has to have a realistic business model associated with it.
Exactly what I am saying 84. Any investment has an element of risk. But by rationally scoping and properly implementing investment, the risk can be greatly minimized. At Lambeau, it is ALL about the fan experience. I see that every day. Valpo, and the ARC, to some extent, actually is a microcosm of the Green Bay experience. Lambeau was an out-of-date venue with little in the way of fan amenities just like the ARC But it had a good team that held people's interest and allegiance (just like VU MBB), but GB was still going bankrupt despite a season ticket waiting list at that time that was close to six figures (it is now 130,000). Maybe the time has come for incremental improvements at a rate somewhat faster than we have seen in the past. Maybe such improvements could entice a couple of P5 teams into 2 for 1's that are not possible now in the ARC's current state. Maybe the improved venue, properly presented and publicized could attract an increased local following. Yes, there are risks in committing to physical improvements, but properly managed, those risks could turn into welcomed benefits at many levels for Valpo and Valpo basketball. Over time what we are talking about will eventually come to pass. My position is why not speed that process up a bit.
"Now that we are in the premier mid-major league in the mid-west, would a 6,000 seat ARC (expanded, renovated and sponsored -- e.g., Thrivent Arena) induce P-5 teams to possibly schedule a 2 for 1 with us?" [/size]
I don't really think the teams who do 2 for 1's really look too much at a facility when they schedule the games. They usually do it for some other reason i.e. they want to get into the area for recruiting, they have a player(s) on the team from a certain area and want to try to get them a game close to home, want to get a game in a certain facility (United Center, Bankers Life Fieldhouse) in preparation of NCAA game, etc. There are a slew of reasons to upgrade the ARC, but trying to induce 2 for 1's is not one of them.
I've been on the Lambeau Field tour twice! It's fantastic. I like the Bears and so naturally I hated the Packers. The tours were impressive and I now have to at least respect the Packers.
There is a close, positive tie between the Packers and George Halas and Bears fans are always welcome at Lambeau.
The Harlan expansion years were necessary to increase the non-football income that every team can keep 100% in order to remain competitive financially with the likes of Chicago, NY, etc. That is not at issue at Valpo, but assuring great crowds at games and increasing the season ticket base has got to be a major priority. It is here where a speeded up series of renovations and a bit of expansion comes into play. I know I would have a harder time upping for season tickets only to sit on a wooden bleacher than if I was offered a modern chairback. And if our attendance profile increases so that a P5 makes a few more bucks for coming into a consistently packed house, the upward spiral continues for Valpo.
No doubt that this is a complicated chicken or egg situation. Everybody has a position. Mine happens to be build the chicken, dont wait for the egg to hatch.
P5s & Big East schools don't particularly care about the other teams facilities. They only care about getting home games and making $. They know they can just buy home games and greatly reduce their risk of losing games and increasing their odds of making the tourney. They know there is a higher risk involved with playing at another schools arena. Also they want as a many home games as possible to generate revenue.
I love the sport of College Basketball but its so screwed up. Its the equivalent of the big market teams like the New York Knicks & LA Lakers paying the Memphis Grizzlies to get their home games because they want the competitive advantage of playing at home instead of the road (& while your at it get rid of the 'Salary Cap' and get rid of the revenue sharing in the sport so the small market teams have a great incentive to take those buy games).
The Scheduling in NCAA Men's Basketball F#$&ed up. Not only that is working against mid-majors but you also have a completely corrupt and biased NCAA Selection Committee that favors mediocre P5/BE teams over great Mid-Major Teams. The Selection Committee doesn't even strictly follow the criteria and guidelines that they set for themselves.
I don't expect P5 or BE schools to share their revenue with Mid-Majors BUT I do expect & think the NCAA SHOULD force them to play on the road more (NOT just Neutral Site Tourneys). It is healthy for the sport for when schools from other conferences play each other on the road in each others buildings!
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 30, 2017, 06:28:21 PMThere is a close, positive tie between the Packers and George Halas and Bears fans are always welcome at Lambeau. The Harlan expansion years were necessary to increase the non-football income that every team can keep 100% in order to remain competitive financially with the likes of Chicago, NY, etc. That is not at issue at Valpo, but assuring great crowds at games and increasing the season ticket base has got to be a major priority. It is here where a speeded up series of renovations and a bit of expansion comes into play. I know I would have a harder time upping for season tickets only to sit on a wooden bleacher than if I was offered a modern chairback. And if our attendance profile increases so that a P5 makes a few more bucks for coming into a consistently packed house, the upward spiral continues for Valpo. No doubt that this is a complicated chicken or egg situation. Everybody has a position. Mine happens to be build the chicken, dont wait for the egg to hatch.
I think the higher profile of our new home conference and the teams therein as well as shifting to a schedule with more Saturday home games is a very positive first step toward driving attendance upward then add the presence of Hazen McMillan and Fazekas as local recruits from the area and that should further drive people to come to games. Let's also remember that the MVC as a brand should lead us to opportunities for better home games in subsequent years as well as better MTEs\Tournaments to give the program more broadcast time Valpo seems to be making the right moves to strengthen their athletic profile and lay the foundation for expansion and upgrade of facilities. It goes without saying that Valpo needs to continue to win and recruit well, locally if possible but of course priority #1 is getting the best possible players. I firmly believe that the University will hold up its end of the bargain in these areas. It's up to us as a community and a fanbase to show up and lend our support both vocally and financially to these plans and help bring them to fruition.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 30, 2017, 06:28:21 PM
There is a close, positive tie between the Packers and George Halas and Bears fans are always welcome at Lambeau.
The Harlan expansion years were necessary to increase the non-football income that every team can keep 100% in order to remain competitive financially with the likes of Chicago, NY, etc. That is not at issue at Valpo, but assuring great crowds at games and increasing the season ticket base has got to be a major priority. It is here where a speeded up series of renovations and a bit of expansion comes into play. I know I would have a harder time upping for season tickets only to sit on a wooden bleacher than if I was offered a modern chairback. And if our attendance profile increases so that a P5 makes a few more bucks for coming into a consistently packed house, the upward spiral continues for Valpo.
No doubt that this is a complicated chicken or egg situation. Everybody has a position. Mine happens to be build the chicken, dont wait for the egg to hatch.
I would propose an alternative idea, though I do think that such an idea should be advanced quickly. This is based on what a similar school (Miami of Ohio) did in regards to basketball attendance. I cannot find the study online, but I think I remember it pretty well.
Miami surveyed regular attendees, occasional attendees and non-attendees and focused on two groups (students/college age and older). They asked questions regarding what was important to them for attendance: quality of opponent, quality of team, promotions, type and loudness of music, etc. While there were differences between the age groups, the main driver was quality of the team and quality of the opponents. Students valued promotions more, while older people wanted piped in music lessened or eliminated - but these issues were secondary.
Valparaiso might be different, so I would recommend doing a similar study using a statistically valid mix of regular attendees, occasional attendees and non-attendees from the university and within 25 miles of Valparaiso. Take some money and partner with the marketing department in the business school to have a student lead project (for credit) overseen by a faculty member and the athletic department. Use the results to help guide investment decisions. My guess is that the quality of the opponent coupled with the quality of the Valpo team is what drives occasional attendees and potential new attendees to go to a game and that the quality of the seating and arena is secondary. But I might be wrong. Use sound analysis to help make good investment decisions. Someone might say "oh geez, not another study - this is paralysis by analysis...let's just do it". But the cost of getting it wrong and wasting investment is too high. A study like this, if prioritized, could be done in six months.
Obviously, a study of this nature would be very helpful. Part of the rationale for it is that most of us are arguing from a lack-of-hard-facts perspective and, like me, bring their own prejudices. Any study of this type needs to seek the answers to, in my opinion, two main themes: (1) How do we increase student attendance at all games so that the Valparaizone is always filled; and (2) How do we increase season ticket sales so that the base attendance for all games increases as well.
Well-constructed surveys and the subsequent analyses and conclusions would be invaluable and would put a lot of conjecture to rest
Has Valpo ever considered some kind of reward system for student attendance? I know this is done at other schools. For example, students scan their ID, use an app to check in, etc to any on campus event, earning points. At the end of the year, or semester, the points can be used for a variety of things (Book store gift certificates, prizes, whatever). Or in some cases I've seen points used at entries to raffle off a full or partial semester scholarship. While I'm sure this could lead to some students just checking in and leaving, I could see this drawing attention to all the sports that play on campus.
I'm sure all of us who attended Vu have stories about dragging an unwitting friend to see a basketball game who then became a fan later on.
I think I remember Valpo doing something like that a few years ago.
Expanding to 6,000-ish would absolutely help get better opponents. Yes, midmajors struggle to get good games no matter what, but there is also a financial component involved that having 1,000 fewer seats (most of them being bleacher seats that limit your price ceiling) undoubtedly hinders.
Expansion and better amenities could also help fill the void opened up by the closure of the Star Plaza for the ARC to become the top concert/event venue for NWI (which in addition to financially boosting the university and athletic dept., would benefit the east Lincolnway corridor as well).
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on July 31, 2017, 12:43:18 PM
Has Valpo ever considered some kind of reward system for student attendance? I know this is done at other schools. For example, students scan their ID, use an app to check in, etc to any on campus event, earning points. At the end of the year, or semester, the points can be used for a variety of things (Book store gift certificates, prizes, whatever). Or in some cases I've seen points used at entries to raffle off a full or partial semester scholarship. While I'm sure this could lead to some students just checking in and leaving, I could see this drawing attention to all the sports that play on campus.
I'm sure all of us who attended Vu have stories about dragging an unwitting friend to see a basketball game who then became a fan later on.
I don't think we need a larger facility that has more capacity, but we could use a facility with 21st century amenities with a much more fan friendly parking situation.
If I were in charge of the marketing/advertising department I would try to be pushing the "Northwest Indiana's College Basketball Team". Put it on the court and in the advertising. The challenge is that our name is "Valparaiso" which other region towns may look and say well thats not my town (team). They need market the Team as "The Regions" Team.
High School Basketball is huge in Indiana. Have the University work with the High Schools Teams and start hosting a "Game of the Week" at the ARC between two High School teams to get fans that don't come to the ARC into the doors. Or even host the Conference Title game or Sectionals or something. Then offer a deal to the parents like half off to family's to get them to come back to one of the College games. But if they were to do any of that they'd NEED to address the parking situation and it would be a nice way to show off the ARC if they ever did renovate.
I'd just like to see some sort of plan or fundraising goal from the University and make it public, even if the goal is for 5-10 years down the line.
Absolutely fantastic proposal VU2014. I think this coupled with a seating expansion would be a great move if it's feasible.
I believe the NCAA rules prohibit that. Someone check me on that.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 31, 2017, 05:31:04 PM
I believe the NCAA rules prohibit that. Someone check me on that.
You are correct. It's the reason the Region Roundball Rumble is no longer held at VU.
Matt Kenney's Mooresville Pioneers played at the ARC in the RRR in 2009 against Munster.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/basketball-fans-teams-travel-for-region-roundball-rumble/article_3abeb9b7-b9a5-53a1-a7b6-5cedf3a0214f.html
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 31, 2017, 05:31:04 PM
I believe the NCAA rules prohibit that. Someone check me on that.
In the State of Illinois they host the State Championships down in Champaign for Football and for basketball they host the games at the Bradley's Arena Peoria Civic Center. I'm not sure if they get away with it because the Civic Center may be leased by Bradley from the City.
If its not against the rules then I don't think it would be a bad idea to just get familiarity and foot-track. It would be great for the High School Athletes to play a game in a Colligate Arena.
And for that reason the NCAA prohibits it --- unfair recruiting advantage for the host college.
But I remember the ARC has hosted professional wrestling. Maybe turning it into a performance space like VU2014 suggested could still work and help bring in money to fund renovations and upgrades and add significantly to the Athletic Department coffers.
The fact that U of I is able to do that is based on a technicality like that if true downright shady. Those kids know where their playing and the team logo is everywhere. I don't understand why we couldn't make it so coaches from interested schools could come in and watch the event and maybe even speak to prospective recruits. Seems like more inconsistency and hypocrisy from the NCAA. Imagine my surprise.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on July 31, 2017, 03:41:00 PM
Expanding to 6,000-ish would absolutely help get better opponents. Yes, midmajors struggle to get good games no matter what, but there is also a financial component involved that having 1,000 fewer seats (most of them being bleacher seats that limit your price ceiling) undoubtedly hinders.
Expansion and better amenities could also help fill the void opened up by the closure of the Star Plaza for the ARC to become the top concert/event venue for NWI (which in addition to financially boosting the university and athletic dept., would benefit the east Lincolnway corridor as well).
Chicken or the egg argument regarding seat expansion. We don't even sell out now?
Flat out, do we really think 1,000 more seats means anything to P6 teams looking for a road game? I firmly believe there is nothing in it for the P6 to EVER travel to a low RPI conference teams court. This is what makes the MVC enticing if we can poach a few more RPI 100s to fill out the league.
P6 schedule far in advance of knowing how the season will play out, just as we do. It's a significantly better risk/reward scenario if the road game they schedule is in a quality MVC where member schools don't have RPI pot holes to avoid.
There is a tiny chance of ever getting a Butler level RPI into the Arc on a regular basis, fact. But if we can get Rhode Island level games at the Arc 1x per our recruits 4-years at VU....slam dunk!
That's more of my short term goal for the team. Homer Drew used to like scheduling Top 10 teams enough such that each class had a moment in the sun against a national powerhouse. If we can only transition that to a Top 30 team @ the Arc once every 3-4 years....I count that as a solid step forward. Thoughts?
Quote from: VU2014 on July 31, 2017, 07:36:01 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 31, 2017, 05:31:04 PM
I believe the NCAA rules prohibit that. Someone check me on that.
In the State of Illinois they host the State Championships down in Champaign for Football and for basketball they host the games at the Bradley's Arena Peoria Civic Center. I'm not sure if they get away with it because the Civic Center may be leased by Bradley from the City.
If its not against the rules then I don't think it would be a bad idea to just get familiarity and foot-track. It would be great for the High School Athletes to play a game in a Colligate Arena.
The Peoria Civic Center Carver Arena is owned by the Peoria Civic Center Authority Board. It's both a city and state entity. I believe ownership of the facility is the key to whether the NCAA allows the facility to host high school athletic events.
QuoteChicken or the egg argument regarding seat expansion. We don't even sell out now?
I've covered this before but "we don't even sell out now" is the most short-sighted response to the facilities issue. Our current facility is
a big reason why we don't sell out consistently -- sitting in the mezzanine (and lower) bleachers is a mostly unpleasant experience compared to the chairbacks or watching the game from the comfort of home (where you don't have to wait in long restroom lines). I've heard this from casual fans in town consistently.
And yes, P6 teams are indeed very image conscious about where they play road games. Many won't play in what they see as a "gym". Make the ARC a more modern arena-like facility is critical to opening scheduling doors that are now closed, particularly since other MVC teams are able to draw top-notch opponents to their buildings.
Look, when your Division I home court is consistently referred to having a "high school" feel -- on national television, no less -- that's not a good thing! We are no longer in the Mid-Con or Horizon League -- we're in the Valley. Time to act like it with a commitment to a 21st-century facility like our new conference mates have.
Fair enough. But the students have front-row seats and free admission, and they still don't come.
I would like to think that the MVC teams will appeal more to them. But my fear is that the current student recruitment targets are just not interested in basketball. Can't recall if Rhode Island had good attendance. That would be a good predictor of student attendance.
Quote from: crusadermoe on August 01, 2017, 11:45:11 AMFair enough. But the students have front-row seats and free admission, and they still don't come. I would like to think that the MVC teams will appeal more to them. But my fear is that the current student recruitment targets are just not interested in basketball. Can't recall if Rhode Island had good attendance. That would be a good predictor of student attendance.
Even free food, sandwiches couldn't get them in the door
Quote from: crusadermoe on August 01, 2017, 11:45:11 AM
Fair enough. But the students have front-row seats and free admission, and they still don't come.
I would like to think that the MVC teams will appeal more to them. But my fear is that the current student recruitment targets are just not interested in basketball. Can't recall if Rhode Island had good attendance. That would be a good predictor of student attendance.
Rhode Island attendance was 4149 so would guess a fair number of students. I'm guessing to be sure, but I wonder if kids from Illinois (there are a lot of them) might come to see an Illinois State or So. Illinois or Loyola more so than to see a Cleveland State or Youngstown State or Wright State simply because they have friends at the Illinois schools and would like to have something to rub in (presuming of course that we win! ;D)
Let's not forget that in addition to the geographic factor, those schools from the MVC have generally speaking a stronger recent national profile than the HL schools you mentioned.
The NIT home court advantage is what we should have for MVC and top 150 RPI games. I could see only 4200 for a Div III team.
VU72, I hope you are right about the Illinois factor and the "friends at rival schools" factor. That's a plausible one for students to attend more MVC games than Horizon ones. That would be nice. .
Having griped about students again, I do agree with folks in this thread that new ARC or new arena amenities would help draw the ticket buying public. But I fully believe that the "game atmosphere" is part of the value buy in college sports and it elevates my NCAA hoops interest far above my level of NBA interest.
I know I've mentioned this before but Greek Life has part of the reason for the drop off of attendance after winter break... Valpo is a small school and Greek Life is a big part of student life on campus. Rush events start the week the students come back from winter break which competes directly with the Valpo Basketball games. It sounds like a excuse but its reality. The students who are in fraternities/sororities have to be at those events and freshman/sophomores who want to rush a fraternity or sorority have to go to those events to have a shot at getting invited to a fraternity or sorority. Not only that but after that those students that decide to join the fraternity/sorority have to go through a long process of pledging (initiating) the new members which is very time consuming for them and the current members. I was in a fraternity myself and I can attest to this.
Even since I've graduated they have added 2-3 new fraternities on campus the last few years and Greek Life participation is up. There is not only greek life. The clubs recruits new members at the beginning of the spring semester.
Just last year we saw the student attendance pick back up after rush/pledge process was finished.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 01, 2017, 05:58:49 PM
I know I've mentioned this before but Greek Life has part of the reason for the drop off of attendance after winter break... Valpo is a small school and Greek Life is a big part of student life on campus. Rush events start the week the students come back from winter break which competes directly with the Valpo Basketball games. It sounds like a excuse but its reality. The students who are in fraternities/sororities have to be at those events and freshman/sophomores who want to rush a fraternity or sorority have to go to those events to have a shot at getting invited to a fraternity or sorority. Not only that but after that those students that decide to join the fraternity/sorority have to go through a long process of pledging (initiating) the new members which is very time consuming for them and the current members. I was in a fraternity myself and I can attest to this.
Even since I've graduated they have added 2-3 new fraternities on campus the last few years and Greek Life participation is up. There is not only greek life. The clubs recruits new members at the beginning of the spring semester.
Just last year we saw the student attendance pick back up after rush/pledge process was finished.
Holy crap! For decades in the past the rush process and pledging incorporated the MBB games as a part of the process. Greeks made support of the MBB games (and all other sports and university activities) a MAJOR component of pledging. It was about emphasizing and instilling school spirit as a part of becoming a brother or sister. Now I hear that the greeks are doing stuff that is antithetical to the development of school spirit. What the heck has happened? Back in the day, greeks were the driving force for student attendance at games. And we were a force.
Maybe this is the key to turning student attendance around: the AD should meet with each greek org and propose that their activities complement, not conflict with, the Valpo athletic program.
I am not sure we can say greek life, which has been a constant, is the reason. The schedule of intiations and recruitment have not changed for years and even with the addition of a couple new fraternities (2 in maybe the last 6 years) that is not really going to be that big of a drain. In fact, sorority recruitment works to make sure they don't get in the way of the women in cheer and dance in regards to conflicting with their basketball games if possible. I think that last year in particular there was a drop off in aggressive advertisement to students, a team that was not as engaged as it's prior version with campus as a whole, and the intensity of the second semester in general.
I hope that the lack of real promotion was due to some staffing changes, not just in coaching but in athletics in general and that it picks up again.
What has changed in recent years about the rush process is that the new Greek Life Dean forced Fraternities and Sororities to not compete for rush events on the same days of the week so they are spread out. Example: Monday: Sig Ep/Phi Delt Tuesday: Lambda Chi Alpha Wednesday: Phi Kappa Psi Thursday: Phi Mu Alpha Friday: Phi Sigma Kappa Saturday: PIKE/Sigma Chi Sunday: Sigma Pi.
Its a smart move from a Greek Life position to maximize the recruitment and not have the fraternities compete for the prime days of Friday/Saturday/Sunday but it also dominates campus life for those weeks. This is how it was my Senior year of college. I believe its still the same process now but now there are even more fraternities.
I really think the rush/pledge process has affected the attendance those weeks. The attendance picked up right around when that process ended I remember this year. Maybe the AD could talk to Carrie Whittier the Dean of Greek Life but I don't see it happening. Maybe. Another theory I had is maybe the team wasn't as engaged with other students as previous years. Bryce would hang out at the student Union during lunch time and chat with students on game days and basically remind them of the games. I'm not sure if Coach Lottich does that or has tried it. I don't think its a epidemic or anything but you can clearly tell early student participation during the Fall Semester compared to the start of Winter Semester and then it goes back up later in the season. Just something I've noticed the last few years.
Some of the student attendance issues may have also been lack of interest in the home opponent... I mean how many students looked to see how Youngstown St., Cleveland St., Detroit, or Wright St. were doing before they decided to attend the game or not? With having more Wednesday/Saturday MVC games, maybe this will change how things are worked for Greek Life recruitment week, especially in this first year of the MVC.
That's another great point in regards to attendance... we're now in a league with higher-profile opponents, better traveling fans, and a league where we'll get more than one lousy Saturday home game during conference season. All the more reason to invest in a modern facility.
University of Southern Indiana's new facilities. Rumor is they're trying to become the next NKU and have their eyes on Horizon League membership in the future. They are currently D2.
https://twitter.com/USIAthletics/status/905864285426941954
Quote from: valporun on August 01, 2017, 10:52:00 PM
Some of the student attendance issues may have also been lack of interest in the home opponent... I mean how many students looked to see how Youngstown St., Cleveland St., Detroit, or Wright St. were doing before they decided to attend the game or not? With having more Wednesday/Saturday MVC games, maybe this will change how things are worked for Greek Life recruitment week, especially in this first year of the MVC.
[/b]
Well, I know one fraternity that will be out in force supporting Brother Smits!
http://valpophipsi.org/about/member-gallery/
Yeah, that USI facility ain't intended for a program that plans on staying D-2. Valpo needs to step up its game here, or we're going to get passed by.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on September 08, 2017, 11:50:48 AM
Yeah, that USI facility ain't intended for a program that plans on staying D-2. Valpo needs to step up its game here, or we're going to get passed by.
I don't think we'll get passed by as long as we have the people intact in the coaching staff & Athletics Department. As long as the cycle of maintaining & hiring good coaches continues we should be fine BUT if the Administration (Heckler & the Board) don't start prioritizing & looking to make upgrades to the facilities we may never go to the next level. Its about time for ARC to see at least see basic upgrades/improvements (cough parking cough, chairbacks surrounding the lower bowl (maybe besides the student section), bathrooms, etc.). I know some people will give this post an eye-roll because its like beating a dead-horse.
Quote from: VU2014 on September 08, 2017, 12:20:57 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on September 08, 2017, 11:50:48 AM
Yeah, that USI facility ain't intended for a program that plans on staying D-2. Valpo needs to step up its game here, or we're going to get passed by.
I don't think we'll get passed by as long as we have the people intact in the coaching staff & Athletics Department. As long as the cycle of maintaining & hiring good coaches continues we should be fine BUT if the Administration (Heckler & the Board) don't start prioritizing & looking to make upgrades to the facilities we may never go to the next level. Its about time for ARC to see at least see basic upgrades/improvements (cough parking cough, chairbacks surrounding the lower bowl (maybe besides the student section), bathrooms, etc.). I know some people will give this post an eye-roll because its like beating a dead-horse.
I think we may start to see some movement on this front, though I certainly don't have any inside information. I did come across the following which indicates that some crowd funding inititiative may be forthcoming, who knows. I just wonder why in the world they would put something like this in print unless there is a plan in the works.
http://support.valpo.edu/s/1347/17/page-1col.aspx?sid=1347&gid=1&pgid=2140
Quote from: vu72 on September 08, 2017, 01:19:47 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on September 08, 2017, 12:20:57 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on September 08, 2017, 11:50:48 AM
Yeah, that USI facility ain't intended for a program that plans on staying D-2. Valpo needs to step up its game here, or we're going to get passed by.
I don't think we'll get passed by as long as we have the people intact in the coaching staff & Athletics Department. As long as the cycle of maintaining & hiring good coaches continues we should be fine BUT if the Administration (Heckler & the Board) don't start prioritizing & looking to make upgrades to the facilities we may never go to the next level. Its about time for ARC to see at least see basic upgrades/improvements (cough parking cough, chairbacks surrounding the lower bowl (maybe besides the student section), bathrooms, etc.). I know some people will give this post an eye-roll because its like beating a dead-horse.
I think we may start to see some movement on this front, though I certainly don't have any inside information. I did come across the following which indicates that some crowd funding inititiative may be forthcoming, who knows. I just wonder why in the world they would put something like this in print unless there is a plan in the works.
http://support.valpo.edu/s/1347/17/page-1col.aspx?sid=1347&gid=1&pgid=2140
Yeah they've had the Day of Giving for a few years now. As far as I know none of the recent major fundraising the University has been doing the last few years has been specifically geared towards Athletics or even more specifically for ARC renovations.
I haven't heard of any fundraising efforts for a ARC reno.
When Paul did his interview with Mark LaBarbera I'm pretty sure he said there was nothing the works. But ARC was going to get a new roof I believe. It sounds like the Admin is counting on a alum being the lead donor to get the ball rolling. Currently that alum does exist or hasn't decided donate towards the project.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847996237102166016
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/847995767432335361
Is southern Indiana athletics any good? Looks like they will have the facilities but do they have d2 success or history?
Quote from: VU2014 on September 08, 2017, 12:20:57 PMI know some people will give this post an eye-roll because its like beating a dead-horse.
(https://boneclones.com/images/store-product/product-132-main-original-1453161732.jpg)
Here is our facilities horse!
While watching the VU - SIU VB game on ESPN3 (on my TV), I realized a sad fact: I could hear the SIU PA announcer 100% clearer, in the back ground through the TV, than I can hear the ARC PA announcers LIVE at BB & VB games. And this has nothing to do with the announcers, but rather the PA systems. And before anyone says that their VB gym is much smaller than the ARC, size has nothing to do with it.
It looks like the ARC just got central Air Conditioning. I believe this picture is batting cages next to Hilltop Gym.
https://twitter.com/ValpoCoach/status/918863926959443968
Quote from: VU2014 on October 13, 2017, 11:01:17 AM
It looks like the ARC just got central Air Conditioning. I believe this picture is batting cages next to Hilltop Gym.
https://twitter.com/ValpoCoach/status/918863926959443968
A close guess. HILLTOP just got air conditioning. Those batting cages are above the bleachers at Hilltop.
I never once realized that the ARC and Hilltop did not have A/C, and we practiced in there all of the time. What a bunch of wimps :)
The former Porter County Hospital Parking garage is now gone.
http://www.nwitimes.com/former-valparaiso-hospital-parking-garage-begins-to-come-down/article_f8d15111-58fd-51d0-ad5c-adc761354e3d.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/921442351654064129
Has anyone heard anything about the parking situation? Has the University decided on how they plan on addressing the parking situation around the ARC?
Indiana State University plans to spend up to $50 million to renovate Hulman Center.
"I'm a very happy person ... and excited that we'll be able to move forward with this and hopefully get construction started in March or April," ISU President Dan Bradley said in a telephone interview soon after the committee's vote.... "It means we will really have an up-to-date, multi-purpose facility and we will be able to have significantly more activity at Hulman Center."
Once completed, "We'll be able to get people in and out easier and it will be a much more attractive building," Bradley said. "I think we'll be able to attract more events," particularly with improvements to the north loading dock.
http://www.tribstar.com/news/hulman-center-renovation-receives-final-state-approval/article_d9179c7e-b5a5-11e7-a03e-634744136008.html
Big news for one our new Conference rivals. It should help them in recruiting.
Quote from: valpotx on October 14, 2017, 01:57:49 PM
I never once realized that the ARC and Hilltop did not have A/C, and we practiced in there all of the time. What a bunch of wimps :)
You obviously have never attended a Volleyball game during a September/October hot spell. If you had, you would
KNOW that the ARC doesn't have AC.
I was always in the ARC for various baseball practices/runs year-round, and attended all Volleyball games while I was in school :). That is not hot. Come down here sometime in July or August ;).
Some very interesting comments from Commissioner Doug Elgin on the 'Inside the Valley' Podcast today, specifically about Valpo facility upgrades. Worth a listen. He openly says that he thinks that Valpo will be making upgrades to the ARC. The que
Facilities talk: 03:40-05:26
http://www.mvc-sports.com/sports/2017/5/16/GEN_0516171827.aspx
https://twitter.com/MVCsports/status/922476774696595457
Quote from: VU2014 on October 23, 2017, 04:14:50 PM
Some very interesting comments from Commissioner Doug Elgin on the 'Inside the Valley' Podcast today, specifically about Valpo facility upgrades. Worth a listen. He openly says that he thinks that Valpo will be making upgrades to the ARC.
[tweet]922476774696595457[/tweet]
I did not find his comments about the ARC to include anything new or to be very encouraging. He said: "I
think they will invest in the ARC
over time, though it is
not a requirement and
not a mandate from our league."
Quote from: valpopal on October 23, 2017, 06:30:40 PM
I did not find his comments about the ARC to include anything new or to be very encouraging. He said: "I think they will invest in the ARC over time, though it is not a requirement and not a mandate from our league."
True, but its encouraging to hear the commish even talk about the facilities "issue" at Valpo. I'd love to know what "upgrades" & "invest in (the ARC) over time" means. I couldn't imagine LeCrone even approaching the subject. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to hear the where the facility upgrades stand. It would be nice to just hear the plans and hear where the fundraising goals currently stand.
A new roof, lighting changes to Hilltop, new BB locker rooms, and AC are considered upgrades, no?
Few of those are visible. It is like rewiring your house to bring it up to code. Necessary, practically invisible, and certainly not sexy.
Personally, I think these need to be done, but I sure would like to see at least one sexy thing in the mix just to amp up the atmosphere. Say, what about a new sound system?
In the unsexy, but useful category, would demolishing Porter Memorial Hospital parking and turning it into useable parking count as an ARC upgrade?
Master Planning, in my opinion, is sort of an art and a good master plan needs good visuals to communicate not only what will be done but how it will look. Montana State, in Bozeman, MT, where my daughter and her family live has just released their 20 year Athletic Master Plan. Granted this is a big state university, but the components that are presented and how they are presented are scalable to a smaller institution like Valpo. I'd love to read plans and see illustrations of Valpo's plans as they apply to all athletic facilities and as they implement and refine the original university 30 Year Plan. For instance, I have never seen a vision for any ARC renovation or expansion. I have not seen high level schematics of the proposed field house/recreation facility and soccer stadium proposed for the Porter property. We are sinking $1+ million into Em Bauer field, but is there a plan with supporting illustrations that can be shared?
If there is sound planning and a clear vision for all aspects of our athletics facilities, then that should be shared with the Valpo community as a means of promotion.
Check out how MSU went about it and then overlay what Valpo could do with the same tools to pull together a cogent and realistic plan for Valpo's atheletic future.
http://msubobcats.com/sports/2017/9/20/Facilities-MasterPlan.aspx
I have asked this many times over the last ten years and have been told the same thing in different ways by different people. Outside of some small changes here or there, the ARC will see no significant upgrades baring a major donor stepping forward and giving money earmarked only for that purpose. When I asked a member of the athletic department about using the conference move as a springboard for a fundraising campaign for the ARC, I was told it had been brought up many times and shot down many times, but he wouldn't tell me at what level it's been hitting it's head on. Very frustrating.
Coming into the MVC with by far the worst basketball facility, and already seeing Indiana State getting funds for a massive upgrade, we could fall further and further behind each and every year.
That being said, maybe there's a plan or something in the works we don't know about, so I will reserve any individual criticisms. However, if we are still having the same conversation next year (this same one we've been having for more than a decade), I will be very disappointed (though completely un surprised).
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on October 24, 2017, 01:56:42 PM
I have asked this many times over the last ten years and have been told the same thing in different ways by different people. Outside of some small changes here or there, the ARC will see no significant upgrades baring a major donor stepping forward and giving money earmarked only for that purpose. When I asked a member of the athletic department about using the conference move as a springboard for a fundraising campaign for the ARC, I was told it had been brought up many times and shot down many times, but he wouldn't tell me at what level it's been hitting it's head on. Very frustrating.
Cough-HECKLER-cough :banghead:
Quote from: VU2014 on October 24, 2017, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on October 24, 2017, 01:56:42 PM
I have asked this many times over the last ten years and have been told the same thing in different ways by different people. Outside of some small changes here or there, the ARC will see no significant upgrades baring a major donor stepping forward and giving money earmarked only for that purpose. When I asked a member of the athletic department about using the conference move as a springboard for a fundraising campaign for the ARC, I was told it had been brought up many times and shot down many times, but he wouldn't tell me at what level it's been hitting it's head on. Very frustrating.
Cough-HECKLER-cough :banghead:
Very unfair. Valpo is one year into a 250,000,000 fund drive to secure the endowment. We have raised 162,000,000 so far. Does it make sense to announce a competing fund drive?? :crazy: Ask St. Joes if endowment is important. Dr. Heckler is very much in favor of athletics and made a big deal of the move to The Valley during his Homecoming speech including the idea that playing in The Valley will extend Valpo's recognition on a broader national basis.
Having said that, John Kuka is full time dealing with Athletic Donors and is raising money in the millions for the current improvements to Hilltop, Em Bauer and other spots. I know, patience is painful.
If a well thought-out Athletics Master Plan is not developed and maintained, just like any business plan or political strategy, it creates a vacuum that is filled with ad hoc or spur of the moment ideas and can result in constant changes in direction. Most alumni would not dispute that we must build in accordance with our financial ability to fund. However, if no one at Valpo knows where they are headed how can planning be implemented and followed?
My posted request was not for changes to anything. My request is for the development of a long range athletic facilities master plan that, over a 10-20 year span (with rolling updates and tweaks), provides and promotes to the university and its alumni rational boundaries and achievable targets for spending on collegiate athletic facilities. This does three important things:
1) It keeps the athletic department and the university administration focused and on-message but at the same time looking ahead to the future.
2) It provides clearer targets of opportunity for potential donors that might not have been known except for individual appeals by staff like John Kuka. It also more clearly identifies to donors the university's needs and priorities.
3) Putting it in writing is a form of commitment.
But getting back to the Montana State Athletic Facility Master Plan:
It is phased. It is spread over 20 years. Each initiative is supported with a justification and ties back to the overall objectives. And each initiative is sufficiently detailed enough, though still at a high level, for readers to envision what is being proposed over time. Obviously missing is how MSU will pay for all of that. But that is not the purpose of this Master Plan. Its purpose is to strategically set the targets (the "whats"). The next step for MSU is to begin financial development planning to support each of the phased initiatives at a tactical level (the "hows").
Valpo did develop a campus-wide 30 Master Plan. In it, we saw a 30-year-out campus map and a single sky-high artist conception of the entire campus that included for athletics....
1) what looked to be an addition to the ARC on the north wall
2) a field house/recreation building on the Porter property
3) a soccer stadium on the Porter property
4) additional playing fields of some sort on the Porter property
5) the baseball diamond moved to the main campus across from the ARC
6) a walk that connects the ARC to the softball/tennis complex
In light of the above ideas, and in the absence of publicly shared documentation to the contrary, there appears to be an ongoing planning vacuum. Where is the followup to the 30-year plan as a whole and where, in particular, is the expansion upon and additional information for the athletic department to do something like MSU but on a smaller scale, of course? It makes me wonder how do the university's other departments, and the university as a whole, plan for near-term as well as long-term phyisical development? I can't help but think that it is more along the lines of ad hoc rather than well coordinated.
Initially I was really impressed with President Heckler & Board for spending the $ and making the conference switch. I was impressed that the Pres/Board were willing to pay the rumored $500K buyout fee, which we later learned there are circumstances on why VU thinks it shouldn't have to pay that buyout (we won't get into all that). I was really impressed and thought we "turned a corner" but turns out they never planned on spending that money anyways (which I completely understand the reasoning on why they didn't). After I heard the lawsuit I sort of returned to my thinking that this Board and Administration really isn't willing to invest in their chartered sport, which is also one of the Universities greatest marketing tools. People recognize Valparaiso outside the Midwest because of basketball.
I absolutely don't think it's unreasonable to fundraise off of the big conference switch. I actually think it's a missed opportunity. None of the $250 million as far as I know goes towards improving the ARC.
Yes we've had a minor upgrades like the new roof but I personally don't consider that an "upgrade". That's just doing your due diligence of maintaining the building. I'll give them credit on the locker-room improvements.
I'm going to quit while I'm ahead because I know this whole conversation is like beating a dead-horse for people. I'll just say that I'm not impressed with President Heckler and some of the board members commitment to elevating the Basketball program. I have faith in the Athletics Department but I'd like to see a larger commitment from the higher ups of the University. I'll just leave it at that.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 24, 2017, 03:53:37 PM
Initially I was really impressed with President Heckler & Board for spending the $ and making the conference switch. I was impressed that the Pres/Board were willing to pay the rumored $500K buyout fee, which we later learned there are circumstances on why VU thinks it shouldn't have to pay that buyout (we won't get into all that). I was really impressed and thought we "turned a corner" but turns out they never planned on spending that money anyways (which I completely understand the reasoning on why they didn't). After I heard the lawsuit I sort of returned to my thinking that this Board and Administration really isn't willing to invest in their chartered sport, which is also one of the Universities greatest marketing tools. People recognize Valparaiso outside the Midwest because of basketball.
I absolutely don't think it's unreasonable to fundraise off of the big conference switch. I actually think it's a missed opportunity. None of the $250 million as far as I know goes towards improving the ARC.
Yes we've had a minor upgrades like the new roof but I personally don't consider that an "upgrade". That's just doing your due diligence of maintaining the building. I'll give them credit on the locker-room improvements.
I'm going to quit while I'm ahead because I know this whole conversation is like beating a dead-horse for people. I'll just say that I'm not impressed with President Heckler and some of the board members commitment to elevating the Basketball program. I have faith in the Athletics Department but I'd like to see a larger commitment from the higher ups of the University. I'll just leave it at that.
(https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6093/6228352401_0e2ea27908_b.jpg)
VALPO ATHLETIC FACILITIES UPGRADES DISCUSSION"It's okay. I've been dead for a long time and if you continue to beat me I don't feel it anymore."
bbtds, great image ;D
HOWEVER... Here is another example of long range strategic planning with respect to athletic facilities development and, in this case, also following through. This time it is not a big state university like MSU. It is a small, liberal arts institution in Maine, Colby College, with an enrollment of only 1,825. There are no "revenue sports" at D-III Colby as admision to all athletic events is free to students and fans. Just saying, it is possible to put together an Athletic Facility Master Plan, maintain it and appropriately follow through on it regardless of the size of the institution. The key ingredient: a determination to do so.
They currently have the Alfond Athletic Complex that is comprised of Wadsworth field house with a 220 yard indoor track and indoor tennis courts, a 25 yard by 25 meter natatorium, basketball courts, hockey arena, workout facilities for the entire campus as well as their student athletes, and other athletic ammenities -- like squash courts, rowing tank, etc. It is a complex that, with the exception of the 5,000 seat arena in the ARC, is head and shoulders ahead of Valpo.
Yet, by 2020 they will have sunk $200 million into a brand new 350,000 square foot Colby Athletic Complex that replaces all of that with similar but uograded and expanded state-of-the-art facilites (like a 50 meter pool). The project will also involve creating new athletic fields (actually those opened this fall) as the new center will be constructed on the present location of their old soccer practice and game pitches and the artificial turf field hockey field. The new fields were built nearby their existing lighted, artifical turf baseball and softball diamonds (it's Maine, so having them playable in the early spring is important to them).
Here is the Athletic Complex page link:
http://www.colby.edu/cac/
Here is a news article that quotes the Colby President on the forward thinking rationale for this project:
http://www.centralmaine.com/2017/04/26/colby-to-build-200-million-athletic-center/
Yes, bbtds, the horse is dead and the beatings are painless to it. But, to me, there should at least be a well done, documented Athletic Facilities Master Plan on record that fits and articulates the university's needs and requirements. I would even argue that had such a master plan existed back in 2013, Valpo might even have gotten the MVC bid for a Chicagoland member instead of Loyola. In the absence of that kind of master plan, these discussions will inevitably continue ad nauseum.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 25, 2017, 08:42:49 AM
HOWEVER... Here is another example of long range strategic planning with respect to athletic facilities development and, in this case, also following through. This time it is not a big state university like MSU. It is a small, liberal arts institution in Maine, Colby College, with an enrollment of only 1,825. There are no "revenue sports" at D-III Colby as admision to all athletic events is free to students and fans. Just saying, it is possible to put together an Athletic Facility Master Plan, maintain it and appropriately follow through on it regardless of the size of the institution. The key ingredient: a determination to do so.
They currently have the Alfond Athletic Complex that is comprised of Wadsworth field house with a 220 yard indoor track and indoor tennis courts, a 25 yard by 25 meter natatorium, basketball courts, hockey arena, workout facilities for the entire campus as well as their student athletes, and other athletic ammenities -- like squash courts, rowing tank, etc. It is a complex that, with the exception of the 5,000 seat arena in the ARC, is head and shoulders ahead of Valpo.
Yet, by 2020 they will have sunk $200 million into a brand new 350,000 square foot Colby Athletic Complex that replaces all of that with similar but uograded and expanded state-of-the-art facilites (like a 50 meter pool). The project will also involve creating new athletic fields (actually those opened this fall) as the new center will be constructed on the present location of their old soccer practice and game pitches and the artificial turf field hockey field. The new fields were built nearby their existing lighted, artifical turf baseball and softball diamonds (it's Maine, so having them playable in the early spring is important to them).
Here is the Athletic Complex page link:
http://www.colby.edu/cac/
Here is a news article that quotes the Colby President on the forward thinking rationale for this project:
http://www.centralmaine.com/2017/04/26/colby-to-build-200-million-athletic-center/
Yes, bbtds, the horse is dead and the beatings are painless to it. But, to me, there should at least be a well done, documented Athletic Facilities Master Plan on record that fits and articulates the university's needs and requirements. I would even argue that had such a master plan existed back in 2013, Valpo might even have gotten the MVC bid for a Chicagoland member instead of Loyola. In the absence of that kind of master plan, these discussions will inevitably continue ad nauseum.
While I certainly agree with VULB#62 that proper planning is extremely important and something about which VU has not been forthcoming and proactive. I thought I would point out that little 1,825 enrollment Colby College has an endowment of at least 710 million dollars. I think that this allows them to prioritize a little differently than VU. However, without a well PUBLICIZED and conceived plan, I don't know how you can expect to have interest in making the future vision become a reality.
VULB#62 wrote: "Master Planning, in my opinion, is sort of an art and a good master plan needs good visuals to communicate not only what will be done but how it will look." I agree. Now that Valpo is in the MVC and reunited with Loyola, VU should use the renovation of Loyola's Gentile Center, which is about the same size as the ARC, as a model. When Loyola renovated the Gentile Center six years ago, a number of folks on this board suggested Valpo promote plans to move in the same direction. Had the university displayed a potential plan for such renovation of the ARC at that time and begun fundraising, I believe the past six years could have been productive and fans would have something of substance to look forward with excitement. One of the mottos fans are sometimes encouraged to follow is "Be Bold, Wear Gold"; unfortunately, "bold" is hardly the word that comes to mind when I think of the VU administration.
Quote from: valpopal on October 25, 2017, 09:48:23 AM
One of the mottos fans are sometimes encouraged to follow is "Be Bold, Wear Gold"; unfortunately, "bold" is hardly the word that comes to mind when I think of the VU administration.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
QuoteVery unfair. Valpo is one year into a 250,000,000 fund drive to secure the endowment. We have raised 162,000,000 so far. Does it make sense to announce a competing fund drive?? :crazy: Ask St. Joes if endowment is important.
Valpo is in no danger of suffering St. Joe's fate. VU's endowment as of 2016 was $205M, roughly $30M more than Butler's endowment. In theory, VU could spend $100M to build a new arena and still have a larger endowment than Illinois State, a school five times Valpo's size.
Now, *of course* you wouldn't want to do that and it doesn't work like that in practice, but to argue that VU does not have the resources to do this, or that committing a dedicated capital campaign to the ARC concurrent with the already-successful general campaign would somehow jeopardize the university's current or future financial state doesn't hold water. There are numerous donors and audiences for an athletics capital campaign that wouldn't overlap with your general campaign, for starters (non-alums and fans in town, regional corporate supporters without alumni connections, etc.)
And I'll say it again -- given the demise of the Star Plaza Theater, the university should absolutely at least kick the tires again on the idea of a city-university partnership for a new arena, similar to what was discussed about ten years ago, then mothballed when the financial crisis occurred. There is a rare window of opportunity here for Valparaiso, which has become the dining hub of Northwest Indiana, to become its sports and entertainment hub as well. Even if the city shows no interest in reviving that plan, VU should strongly explore what a new arena could do not just for its athletics programs, but as a home for concerts, shows, regional conventions, etc. and the future economic development of the east Lincolnway corridor. There is going to be a hole in the NWI market come January of 2018, and a bold vision could capitalize on that it handsomely.
Interestingly, the news about the $200 million Colby Athletic Center project also, over and above that, allocated an additional $45 million to Colby-Community projects in downtown Waterville, ME as well. Kind of a parallel to what you are suggesting.
Just for comparison's sake, here are some other private D-1 institutions in the Big East, A-10, MVC, WCC, HL, Summit and OVC along with a few other notables that have been discussed here (note these are 2016 figures, all have likely gone up due to market gains this year):
Robert Morris - $32M
ORU - $38M
Detroit - $45M
St. Bonaventure - $60M
LaSalle - $88M
Belmont - $108M
Portland - $140M
Xavier - $151M
St. Mary's - $165M
Butler - $175M
Gonzaga - $181M
Evansville - $189M
Drake - $198M
VALPO - $205M
Providence - $213M
St. Joseph's (PA) - $216M
Wichita State - $235M
Seton Hall - $243M
Duquesne - $256M
Bradley - $280M
U. of San Francisco - $300M
DePaul - $420M
Creighton - $448M
U. of San Diego - $450M
Dayton - $500M
Loyola - $535M (includes med center)
University of Denver - $607M
St. John's - $648M
Villanova - $685M
Davidson - $697M
Fordham - $721M
Santa Clara - $840M
St. Louis U. - $1.02 Billion (includes med center)
Georgetown - $1.48 B
George Washington - $1.57B (includes med center)
Richmond - $2.2B (includes med center)
(FWIW, all three private universities in the AAC - Tulsa, Tulane and SMU are all $1B or higher in endowments. Every P5 private school has an endowment of $1.2B or larger -- most much larger -- with the exception of University of Miami at $850M)
Quote from: vu72 on October 25, 2017, 07:00:32 PMValpo is in no danger of suffering St. Joe's fate. VU's endowment as of 2016 was $205M, roughly $30M more than Butler's endowment. In theory, VU could spend $100M to build a new arena and still have a larger endowment than Illinois State, a school five times Valpo's size.
This is short sited to say the least. And comparing Valpo to Illinois State, a school run by the worst financed state in America is really problematic. I would doubt there are any state run schools in Illinois not VERY concerned about funding.
Now, on to the reality of private higher education. Valpo's 206,000,000 endowment is not available to the whims of the Board. So the idea of taking funds from this source is just not allowed let alone prudent. Assuming a 5% return (don't look for a moment at 2008's 30% negative return) the endowment creates 10,300,000 of funds available to give grants, help support a very highly qualified group of professors and, oh yah, pay the light bill. So Valpo says, in written form, to entice students to come to Valpo, that we give 110,000,000 in grants etc. each year. So some of this is loans, some federal and state grants and loans and the rest is DISCOUNTS granted on the 52,980 sticker price. If we want to attract lesser qualified students with lots of discounts it will work. Higher level students, given the same or better price will opt for schools deemed to have better academics all the while pointing to the lower standards accepted by Valpo in the admission process as a reason to go elsewhere. Discounting leads to deficits and deficits lead to debt which leads to failure. It is a serious matter of financial warfare both for tuition and facilities.
Higher education is in a serious death spiral for many instituitons. Schools with inadequate endowments WILL fail. No doubt, several schools on the aforementioned list are is crisis mode even as we write tonight. Google colleges who have closed their doors. And as for Colby, lots of wealthy alumni, 708 million in endowment, a tiny student body to support and the accompanying smaller support and faculty and facilities made for a small school like a gym that seats 2600.
Bloomberg shows Valpo's current endowment as $140M. According to a separate source, Valpo's endowment in 2010 (post '08 market crash) was $491M. Then plug in 72's reported $205M in 2016, and you have one of the most disturbing year-over-year endowment declines I have ever seen. How can this be?
Since President Trump has been in office, endowment values have skyrocketed in line with the crazy stock market boom. Not only have endowment values dramatically increased, endowment earnings are running as high as 20% per annum. With the current market, any funds manager earning less than 10% for their clients should be run out of the business.
IF these reported endowment values are accurate, the University has spent its "savings account" funds like drunken sailors. Even worse, it withdrew huge sums of money during a flat or declining market, and now the money isn't there to take advantage of the current market upturn.
Current
https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=3533755
2010
http://endowments.com/valparaiso-university/
College endowments had a massive rebound thanks to Trump
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/college-endowments-benefit-from-trump-bump-2017-8
$205m sounds right. The Blomberg number must be really old. Valpo did botch their investments in 2009, 2010 or 2011 once. But it was over $200m and likely went past $220m if they are average.
Those Bloomberg snapshots are rarely current for anything beyond publicly-traded companies. And even then they can run a couple of years behind.
I have to agree that the Bloomberg info does not look accurate. The person they list as chief financial officer has been retired since 2012.
Let's try this (from 990's):
In Millions
2007 $203
2008 $144
2009 $144
2010 $166
2011 $166
2012 $185
2013 $213
2014 $218
2015 couldn't find
2016 not available
IRS process dates for Valpo's annual 990's are typically 18 months after year's end. Thus, 2015 would not have been processed until July 2017. I couldn't find it. 2016 won't be processed until July 2018.
Quote from: wh on October 25, 2017, 08:30:39 PM
Bloomberg shows Valpo's current endowment as $140M. According to a separate source, Valpo's endowment in 2010 (post '08 market crash) was $491M. Then plug in 72's reported $205M in 2016, and you have one of the most disturbing year-over-year endowment declines I have ever seen. How can this be?
I think I have the answer. The Bloomberg number of $140M is seriously out of date and incorrect. 72's number of $205M is a pretty good estimate.
The separate source estimate of $491M is NOT reporting just the endowment. It was one estimate of the total assets attributed to the university: Here, total assets include the endowment plus all of the buildings, land, books, equipment, etc. owned by Valpo. For example, the new science building cost about $40M, and that would now be considered an asset of the university. Add up the value of all the buildings and land, and it isn't hard to come up with a $300M asset base, plus a $200M endowment.
The endowment obviously won't be tapped for ARC renovations nor should it be. But the endowment seems large enough especially with the recent fundraising efforts to give a cushion to allow for a separate athletics department fundraising push after entering the MVC.
It's frustrating that this admin doesn't really care that much (Yes of course they care but not enough to invest in). They give the Athletics Department the minimum resources to just maintain the status quo and its up the Athletics Department and Coaching Staffs to make the strides. We're lucky that we have good people in place that get the most out of the resources they have been given. President Allen Harre was a frugal man himself but at least he made the right hires in bringing in Mark LaBarbera. Homer Drew came to Valpo when President Harre first started back in 1988. Allen Harre left a lasting legacy on Valpo athletics. Once President Heckler took the torch back in 2008 he's sort of has just done enough to maintain the status quo.
What significant achievement or progress can we credit to President Heckler in terms of Athletics in his time as President?
-The track was built but the donation had nothing to do with President Heckler pushing for it.
-The Football team is very clearly making positive strides the last few years but that is more due to the AD making the right hire and the football alumni stepping up and helping the program.
-Homer built up the program well before President Heckler took over and the Drew's have always been asking for upgrades to the ARC.
-The Coach Lottich hiring was more the ADs call.
Maybe I'm being too harsh but I'm not impressed with his commitment to athletics.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 26, 2017, 10:54:39 AM
The endowment obviously won't be tapped for ARC renovations nor should it be. But the endowment seems large enough especially with the recent fundraising efforts to give a cushion to allow for a separate athletics department fundraising push after entering the MVC.
Here again we seem to almost always talking be about one thing -- the ARC, because it means a lot to many on this board. But that brings us back to my original premise: in the absense of good planning,
ad hoc decisions (like, what to do about the ARC today) that depend on which way the wind is blowing are made.
I purposely left out of the quote of the previous post any criticism of the president and the administration, but I will go on record with one thought on this subject:
The greatest, immediate contribution President Heckler can make to the future of Valpo athletics is to commission, by the close of the 2017-18 academic year, a comprehensive, professionally performed, long-term Athletic Department Facilities Master Plan that requires completion and public release by December 1, 2018.
For too long our athletic department has been forced to operate in a reactionary mode with no long term goals in plain sight. In spite of this, much has been done to make Valpo a player among mid-major universities. Athletically, through the efforts of our dedicated staff, many of whom have joined us during the Heckler era, Valpo has risen to be the preeminent 'Lutheran' university in college athletics. The Valpo brand is national in its recognition more than ever. For this reason, I believe that MLB and the coaches and staff deserve better, and the first step is to provide a commitment to structured goals and the plans to achieve them.
I might add that what I am suggesting is totally different from the Athletic Department Strategic Plan that has been previously published. While that document addresses facilities to some extent, it does so more along the lines of stewardship of existing facilities.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 26, 2017, 12:58:05 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 26, 2017, 10:54:39 AM
The endowment obviously won't be tapped for ARC renovations nor should it be. But the endowment seems large enough especially with the recent fundraising efforts to give a cushion to allow for a separate athletics department fundraising push after entering the MVC.
Here again we seem to almost always talking be about one thing -- the ARC, because it means a lot to many on this board. But that brings us back to my original premise: in the absense of good planning, ad hoc decisions (like, what to do about the ARC today) that depend on which way the wind is blowing are made.
I purposely left out of the quote of the previous post any criticism of the president and the administration, but I will go on record with one thought on this subject:
The greatest, immediate contribution President Heckler can make to the future of Valpo athletics is to commission, by the close of the 2017-18 academic year, a comprehensive, professionally performed, long-term Athletic Department Facilities Master Plan that requires completion and public release by December 1, 2018.
For too long our athletic department has been forced to operate in a reactionary mode with no long term goals in plain sight. In spite of this, much has been done to make Valpo a player among mid-major universities. Athletically, through the efforts of our dedicated staff, many of whom have joined us during the Heckler era, Valpo has risen to be the preeminent 'Lutheran' university in college athletics. The Valpo brand is national in its recognition more than ever. For this reason, I believe that MLB and the coaches and staff deserve better, and the first step is to provide a commitment to structured goals and the plans to achieve them.
I might add that what I am suggesting is totally different from the Athletic Department Strategic Plan that has been previously published. While that document addresses facilities to some extent, it does so more along the lines of stewardship of existing facilities.
These are the right words. That said, here's what a "professionally" developed plan IS NOT. It's NOT doing it on the cheap by borrowing the services of an in-house instructor from Marketing or Communications with basic facilitator training to bring over a set of flip charts and markers and slow walk an "exploratory" committee through a stereotypical, 7-step problem solving model. A bridge to nowhere and garbage in and garbage out best describe these kinds of efforts.
True facility planning is a high level skill that comes with a hefty price tag. It is anything but a commodity service that can be duplicated by amateurs who don't know what they don't know.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 26, 2017, 10:54:39 AMHomer Drew came to Valpo when President Harre first started back in 1988.
My memory and guess is that Homer Drew was hired in the spring of 1988, under AD Steinbrecher and President Schnabel. Although, since Harre was incoming President, he may have been included in the Drew hiring process. I believe Harre took over on 1 July 1988.
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2984.0
The Loyola admin continues to make improvements to gentile arena. Must be nice having a President and Board willing to make an investment in their facilities...
VU Fans: President Heckler, could we make an effort to fundraise for ARC Renovations?
President Heckler: No.
VU Fans: Ok, well are you willing to make any significant improvements to the basketball arena?
President Heckler: Absolutely! We just hung new up new MVC banners!
VU Fans: Great... ::)
Quote from: VU2014 on November 06, 2017, 12:32:36 PM
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=2984.0;last_msg=89677
The Loyola admin continues to make improvements to gentile arena. Must be nice having a President and Board willing to make an investment in their facilities...
VU Fans: President Heckler, could we make an effort to fundraise for ARC Renovations?
President Heckler: No.
VU Fans: Ok, well are you willing to make any significant improvements to the basketball arena?
President Heckler: Absolutely! We just hung new up new MVC banners!
VU Fans: Great... ::)
Total BS, 2014. Have you ever even met President Heckler? Uninformed pot shots from a far do nothing. None of us know what is transpiring behind the scenes. I do know that they are working on a donor to potentially start phase one of the Rec Center. This would begin the process necessary to allow for ARC renovations.
As for Loyola, their impressive facility apparently does little to attract fans. Winning does and it probably will help them that they appear to have a competitive team this year. Last year's average attendance:1831.
Screw it. Why don't we as fans just go out and do what we can to get the ball rolling. It may be true that none of us have millions of dollars but why don't we try our own fundraising efforts and then just give the money to VU for the express purpose of upgrading the athletic facilities. If the University sees significant grassroots support from the fanbase for upgraded facilities that is backed up by real dollars we might just get them to loosen the purse strings a bit and help us out because they see which way the wind is blowing and what the alumni want. It seems like both fans and administration are waiting for some sort of Deus ex machina to show up and fix all the problems but no one's willing to get off their behinds and do something meaningful.
I agree with 72 Facilities alone won't accomplish what a good program can We have the program and that's a big part of it right now but a good program with good facilities can go so much further It can launch VU into the strata we all know it can occupy as a premier mid major program in multiple sports We're close in soccer both men's and women's We're getting there in baseball and softball and volleyball We're SO CLOSE in men's basketball and there's great potential in our women's team as well Tennis has taken major strides and swimming appears to be getting off the mat as well There are solid proposals in place for swimming and baseball/softball We just need a little more money behind these projects and I think we'll see the changes we need to see Maybe all we need is a little time and with the MVC up for grabs we just might have the time we need
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 06, 2017, 12:59:19 PM
Screw it. Why don't we as fans just go out and do what we can to get the ball rolling. It may be true that none of us have millions of dollars but why don't we try our own fundraising efforts and then just give the money to VU for the express purpose of upgrading the athletic facilities. If the University sees significant grassroots support from the fanbase for upgraded facilities that is backed up by real dollars we might just get them to loosen the purse strings a bit and help us out because they see which way the wind is blowing and what the alumni want. It seems like both fans and administration are waiting for some sort of Deus ex machina to show up and fix all the problems but no one's willing to get off their behinds and do something meaningful.
I'll be willing to collect the donations ::) . But, seriously, what you're saying makes some sense, however, there needs to be a legal structure for any such fund. Therefore, it probably comes back to Valpo Development to create such a fund. And that is not a bad idea. Just hang an ARC renovation fund out there, describe what the money collected would be used for (part of the Valpo Athletic Facility Master Plan, no doubt), let people know it exists, then sit back and collect whatever comes in. It doesn't need to even be a campaign -- just a targeted spot for concerned fans and alumni to send their specified donations. Then, if 1314 is right, as the fund grows, the administartion will get a reasonable reading on alumni backing for such an initiative. Though low key, it could turn into something.
I'd drop a donation in there anytime I passed the spot and was able
Just imagine the impact we could have if everyone dropped in a couple bucks or more if they're feeling generous each time they came in to watch an event At a dollar a fan we could raise like $50,000 just on last year's attendance numbers alone for just men's basketball Add in women's basketball and volleyball events (maybe put another near Brown Field for soccer and football fans to donate and near the baseball and softball fields and we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars per year for this purpose at just a dollar per fan If people gave 5 10 20 or more even just some of the time I don't think it's unreasonable that we could push $1million per year throughout all events on top of normal fundraising drives and channels Get a wealthy donor to match these donations and watch the cash multiply This would also give Valpo more incentive to schedule better nonconference home games to get more people in and sell more tickets/season ticket packages Everybody wins The fans get the power to do something meaningful without having to commit to a giant donation the administration gets the satisfaction of having done something meaningful for the future of the program without busting their own budget We get better games as fans Attendance goes up Recruiting goes up The team's profile goes up Budgets increase Facilities are upgraded Cycle continues and Valpo becomes the power we know it can
vu72, I have met President Heckler. He's a very charming and good guy. There has been a lack of communication on any potential renovation and we've heard rumblings that any attempt of fundraising off the big Conference switch got axed up the food chain.
Agreed Loyola has had nice facilities the last few years since the renovation and their attendance has been unimpressive but look at their recent recruiting classes. Nice facilities don't equal success but I'd imagine they certainly don't hurt (unless you're Omaha, who was fiscally reckless with their new arena). Imagine if Loyola had Valpo's history and the same amount recent success. I'd imagine their attendance would be much higher.
Any successful fundraising effort needs the support and commitment from the very top.
I'm interested to hear what fundraising initiatives were proposed in light of the conference switch what they would have entailed and why they didn't work. Because if President Heckler is really quashing earnest attempts to move valuable projects forward then I have to say that such actions do not appear to coincide with good stewardship of the University. Like it or not in this day and age how marketable a university is has a great deal to do with how successful it's athletic teams are. Athletics drives marketing and branding in a major way. As much as we all want to extoll the academic credentials of VU and the merits of a VU education are undeniable, to focus solely on that and deny that students care how good the sports scene is here is to fail to see the whole picture. A man of the vision President Heckler seems to possess cannot possibly overlook this truth.
Just wanted to point out that the new video capability set Valpo back a cool $600,000.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 06, 2017, 03:44:10 PM
I'm interested to hear what fundraising initiatives were proposed in light of the conference switch what they would have entailed and why they didn't work. Because if President Heckler is really quashing earnest attempts to move valuable projects forward then I have to say that such actions do not appear to coincide with good stewardship of the University. Like it or not in this day and age how marketable a university is has a great deal to do with how successful it's athletic teams are. Athletics drives marketing and branding in a major way. As much as we all want to extoll the academic credentials of VU and the merits of a VU education are undeniable, to focus solely on that and deny that students care how good the sports scene is here is to fail to see the whole picture. A man of the vision President Heckler seems to possess cannot possibly overlook this truth.
IT MAKES NO SENSE TO DO ANY MAJOR ARC UPGRADES BEFORE OPENING A STUDENT REC CENTER.
Why do we keep focusing on facilities. I'm flabbergasted at how short sighted we get on this subject. The real focus should be on dedicating the ARC to b-ball by setting up the student Rec-center.
Just one mans opinion...but I've heard others that are far more wired into VU campus say the same thing.
Didn't ML say as much on record?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 06, 2017, 08:00:09 PM
IT MAKES NO SENSE TO DO ANY MAJOR ARC UPGRADES BEFORE OPENING A STUDENT REC CENTER.
I strongly disgree. There are a number of things that would upgrade the ARC without having to build a Field House first.
- State of the Art audio.
- Replacing bowl benches with chairbacks like the north side
- Adding beachers to the east backline
- Finding ways to add better concession stands.
- Developing closer parking (think about it. Athletics at Valpo is all about basketball)
None of those require a new Field House. And even if they are an interim solution, it is better than waiting another decade for the improvements
Having said the above, I congratulate the university for investing in the new video syatem.
Quote from: wh on October 25, 2017, 08:30:39 PMSince President Trump has been in office, endowment values have skyrocketed in line
You have got to realize that our beloved President has very little to do with this. He can take all the credit for it but presidents in general have very little influence over the strength of the economy. Pleeeeease!
Quote from: bbtds on November 09, 2017, 05:15:25 AM
Quote from: wh on October 25, 2017, 08:30:39 PMSince President Trump has been in office, endowment values have skyrocketed in line
You have got to realize that our beloved President has very little to do with this. He can take all the credit for it but presidents in general have very little influence over the strength of the economy. Pleeeeease!
Maybe you can explain that to the 27 economic experts who 1 year ago predicted a market crash if Trump became President:
All the Experts Who Told Us Stocks Would Crash if Trump Won
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/08/all-the-experts-who-told-us-stocks-would-crash-if-trump-won/
I also assume from your lesson on economics that you are not among the millions of adherents of liberal dogma that blamed then-President George Bush for the crash of 2007 and 2008, and continued to blame for 8 straight years of economic decline under Obama. And, of course, lefties would never blame Trump had the market tanked over the past 12 months instead of boomed, right? lol
This reminds me of listening to my nephew (H.S. teacher and big time teacher's union supporter) talk about their school system administration and school board. Everything they do is stupid and incompetent, and they're out to screw the teachers at every turn. I love my nephew dearly (fellow VU season ticket holder, by the way), but fair and balanced he ain't. :)
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/353/279/e31.jpg)
Presidents generally get too much credit for a stronger economy and too much blame for a weak economy. I guess it is a human nature to simplify things and attribute outcomes to a singe person or cause, rather than consider the complexities.
That said, the stated intention of the President and the Republican majority Senate and House to lower the corporate tax became a more probable reality after the November 2016 election, causing the market to rise. The realities of passing this are rising up now, because of broader problems with dramatic increases in the national debt, perceptions (right and wrong) about wealth inequalities, etc. My guess is that the markets may be a little overvalued given how tax reform (which, in this case, is tax reduction) may ultimately pan out. Fortunately, I think that the people managing the VU endowment are pretty good at not being too aggressive and will hopefully manage this pretty well.
By the way, national real GDP grew from $14.36T to $16.85T (per the Federal Reserve and using a basis of 2009 dollars) and unemployment went from 7.8% to 4.7% (per the Bureau of Labor Statistics) during the Obama administration. I would not apply a majority of the credit for that to the Obama administration, but claiming that there were 8 straight years of economic decline during the Obama administration is false.
The economy is cyclical, but the market is up because of regulatory reforms & the market has priced in some form of tax cuts. If Congress doesn't achieve some kind of tax cut the markets will probably regress, but honestly who really knows. It's sort of a moot point because any ARC reno won't use the endowment funds, nor should it be.
Lets not get too far into weeds on economics & politics on this thread. Let's all just hope the economy stays strong. A strong economy means it's more likely we'll find a few of those lead donors for the Student Rec Center & ARC Reno.
VU2014 - I apologize for going further into the weeds and agree that a strong economy is good for everyone - including VU endowment. I just couldn't let a unjustified and false statement like "eight years of economic decline under Obama" go unchecked.
By the way, one part of the proposed tax plan that could greatly hurt Valparaiso and other universities is dramatically raising the standard deduction. This will reduce the incentive to donate money to universities, churches, etc. and will decrease overall donations.
Sometimes with Presidents it's a little too much "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" on both sides of the aisle.
Why does it matter what any pundit says or does not say. I do not blame Bush for any of the economic troubles this country has had in the past. Each president, past and present, does not have enough influence to change the economy one way or the other enough to cause economic ruin or prosperity. Not a Democratic or Republican, even Hoover, who was blamed for the Depression. So even though he takes credit for it Trump doesn't have enough influence to shape the economy that much.
On the other hand what Trump has accomplished to a great degree is make himself look like an @ss by tweeting hatred filled responses that nobody appreciates. Even the other Republicans. His approval numbers are so low no president has ever been lower. He seems to be covering up a scandal that involves the Russians influence over the election and he seems to have us on the brink of nuclear war with North Korea. B
I originally was gonna add this to the SIUE thread, but rather than hijack it a bit, I am sticking this here.
When I first tuned into the stream, the first impression was "where are the fans?"
But the second was about the facility. Even though it is smaller (~4,000), the configuration and seating (colorful chairbacks around the entire lower bowl - including the corners - except for the base line student sections) looked much more "college-looking" than our ARC. It is a good example of how just a little attention to the cosmetics of a venue can change perception. Even the upper level bleacher seats pop out at you.
From the SIUE Athletics website: "Originally opened December 5, 1984, the Sam M. Vadalabene Center lends itself to the students, faculty, staff and alumni of SIUE for the purposes of education, health, recreation and wellness. The facility is the home to SIUE men's and women's basketball, volleyball and wrestling, and has a capacity of slightly above 4,000. It also serves as the indoor practice facility for baseball and track.
Following spring commencement exercises in 2008, the facility underwent a $6 million renovation, nearly tripling the number of chair back seats as well as adding new locker room, class room and office space."
http://www.siuecougars.com/facilities/vadalabene_center_basketball
Check out the 360 view of their arena: http://www.youvisit.com/tour/panoramas/siue/80709?module=panoramas&id=39254&pl=v
It looks like a nice arena but I don't like how they have that fence separating the grand stands and the court side seats though. The one thing I love about the ARC is how its almost as if the fans are on top the court on all sides, besides the side where the concessions are at which ideally I'd want to see chairbacks on that side one day. I think thats one home court advantages of the ARC. It's a awkward place to play and the fans are on top of you and it can get loud in there at times.
maybe that tort lawsuit against the HL will help cover some of the costs of renovating the gym.
Although we can all agree that some improvements to the ARC are necessary sometimes it's a good idea to take stock and be thankful for what we do have. After all, our arena could look like this:
https://twitter.com/TXStateMBB/status/936986405317824517
I just don't know how Houston Baptist is D-1 FCS in football. They are a smaller school than Valpo, and can't have a larger endowment.
If faculties didn't matter the large programs wouldn't be spending hundreds of millions on student athlete centers. Wouldn't have pool tables, 80" TVs, lockers with 42" flat screens in them, wouldn't have the video boards, suites, etc...
Yes most of that is over the top to prove the point, but the belief that facilities don't matter works when you are playing against programs in a conference where everyone thinks that. That's not the case in the MVC. UNI is in the midst of fundraising a 2 level basketball practice and training facility. Just spent a couple million in a tennis facility.
There's a reason Valpo had to spend 600k to reach minimum AV standard for the MVC. It's a different world. Will facilities win you games? No. Will they make a dramatic average attendance impact? Nope. It does make it easier to attract better talent and attract fans when the team is winning.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 02, 2017, 05:46:58 PM
Although we can all agree that some improvements to the ARC are necessary
I think President Heckler begs to differ. ;)
What makes a program D1? Number of sports offered or number of scholarships?
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 02, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
What makes a program D1? Number of sports offered or number of scholarships?
Certainly not the former. There are D-I colleges with only a handful of sports and those with 30+. The number of scholarships, therefore would vary by the number of sports offered and, remember, not all sports are required to fully fund to NCAA maximums, therefore, the latter is also not a factor. Doesn't it come down to formally applying for and being designated by the NCAA as D-I and, as a requirement fulfillment, schedule a minimum number of games/matches with other D-I programs across all offered sports programs?
Quote from: valpotx on December 02, 2017, 09:16:42 PM
I just don't know how Houston Baptist is D-1 FCS in football. They are a smaller school than Valpo, and can't have a larger endowment.
Exhibit 1: It is football
Exhibit 2: It is Texas
Exhibit 3: In Texas they spend $60 million for HS football stadiums ;)
D1 schools are required to field a minimum of 14 different teams. There are no scholarship minimums only maximums, this is why Valpo can offer no football scholarships but still be in D1. Maximum scholarship allotment is per sport, there is no requirement Department wide for total scholarships.
Outside of MBB and WBB and WVB it is pretty common for mid major schools to offer less than the D1 maximum for scholarships in some or all of their sports. FBS football membership does have some additional requirements above and beyond FCS or non-football D1 membership.
Matt, still wondering what the answer to Mick's basic question: What makes a program D1?
If we ever get ARC renovations during this millennium, I'm hoping the Athletics Department will consider getting one of the projectors that play video on the court during the pre-game intro hype video. They are becoming way more common then they were even 2-3 years ago and I've seen other Mid-Major schools have them as well. It's cool things like this that enhance the paying customers experience, impress recruits and could help general admission/student attendance. Shouldn't be the priority item for the athletics department but it would be a very cool touch to the Valparaiso Gameday experience that I think we all can agree could use a revamp or at least some investment in.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/937427981131272193
vufan75 did a nice write up on his visit to newly renovated Gentile Arena. How Loyola renovated Gentile could be a blueprint for a future ARC renovation. I saw it on TV and it looked pretty nice. I'm not a fan of how they have the tunnels right behind the hoop. I like how the ARC has the student section right on top of the court and close to the opposing bench. I actually think it makes the ARC a tough place to play because it makes it feel like the crowd is right on top of you. I actually think the best setup is Hinkle Fieldhouse how they have fans completely encapsulating the court and then on then they have that 2nd deck behind the hoops that is pretty much on top of the court. That has to be one of the toughest places to play when they sell the thing out when they have a good opponent.
Do you think the Athletics Department has blueprints of how they'd like to renovate the ARC? I know Mark LaBarbera mentioned he has the blueprints ready for the student rec center but they don't have the lead donor for the project yet. Someone mentioned that they have been working on a particular individual who is thinking about funding the student rec center which would be huge for Valpo Athletics to finally have a dedicated space solely for the athletes. Not only that but it would be huge for recruiting new students to the University. It baffles me that a University like Valparaiso doesn't have a Student Rec Center. Once we get the Rec Center then the idea of renovations becomes more realistic from the sound of it.
Quote from: vufan75 on December 03, 2017, 02:13:24 PM
Quote from: vufan75 on December 02, 2017, 07:16:36 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 02, 2017, 06:23:29 PM
Loyola crushed uic by 24. Something wrong at uic
Went to Loyola-UIC game today. My 1st Loyola game day experience. Will post thoughts later.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
First trip to renovated Loyola's Gentile Arena yesterday. A few things I noticed that have been discussed on the forum.
Game ticket posted prices were $25/$20/$12. Event parking in nearby parking garage was $10. Saw 2 concession areas on lower level concourse. Noticed beer and wine sold from tables set up in several areas around concourse. Rest rooms accessed from concourse or in larger hallway outside arena.
One of my daughter's works for Loyola Medicine in Maywood in the Ortho Dept. Yesterday was sponsor day at the game, so we rec'd complimentary game tickets and were hosted in a stadium area called Lions Den. Had a nice sandwich, dessert, drink spread for sponsor guests. It was an area up above general admission seats about midcourt. Someday they hope to have suites there.
Had opportunity to speak awhile with recently hired Assistant AD/ Director of Development for Athletics, which he said was a new position for Loyola. He is a fundraiser for athletics. He previously was at DePaul. Nice guy. One bit of info he shared was he said he coached the Jenkins twins when they were younger. He joked that he takes a little credit for the Valpo win vs. Ole Miss and the Jenkins play. [emoji6]
I asked about the pep band. He said at Loyola in order to participate you had to take one music class. Regarding pay, he said he thought they received maybe $8-$10 per event played from something he called the student services fund. It looked like the pep band had a director, as one person not in the band definitely was leading the band.
I am a bit confused by marketing at Loyola though. The official team nickname is Ramblers, the mascot is dressed in a wolf head, and we sat in what was known as the Lion's Den area?
As far as the game itself, Loyola looks pretty good. Look forward to the Valpo games against them! UIC has talent but just doesn't play well together it seemed.
Spot on 2014. It's about attracting applicants and closing the deal. My son's alma mater (D-III Colby College in Maine with just over 2,000 students and no graduate programs to speak of in the wilds of Waterville, ME) just began construction on a $200+ million athletic rreplacement of their old facilities (old facilities that even today make Valpo's look aenemic -- except for the basketball arena). Face it, even dorks and students uninterested in competitive athletics view the opportunity to stay fit and have some receational activities as positives. Valpo does not offer that option. As an aside, I walked around Butler a year ago and was so impressed with the student facilities outside of Hinkle. Beautiful. No doubt if I was a HS senior, I'd go there if that was a deciding factor.
Reguarding blue prints: Maybe if Valpo released for public consumption what their facilities aspirations were, Valpo alums would get the picture and respond. But they do not.
Personally, I am a retired alum with modest resources. I love Valpo Athletics. I want to donate. But I refuse to just throw my hard-earned retirement nest egg $$$ into a nebulus "general" fund or a "basketball" bucket. I want my $$$ to build something I can actually look at and say I helped to build that --- for instance, new chairbacks in the arena.
Colby (according to Google) has an endowment equal to $395,000 per student. Valpo has one equal to $45,000 per student.
72, we've covered the Colby endowment in past posts. That is not my point, so let's get past that. I used that to make another point. My point is that other colleges are recognizing that building a student recreation and athletics facility (for that matter any freaking "amenities" facility) that attracts future students is a positive investment given the competitive environment we face. Anything less is adhereing to the status quo and that puts Valpo on the downward escalator in today's competitive educational market. Valpo can sit on its ass or it can be aggressive. IMO, the institutions that choose to be conservative or rely on the successes of the past are rapidly losing ground to those who attack the future.
Do the dorms need upgrading? Yes. Does the endowment need expansion? Certainly. ........And that 18 year old potential student is closely following that endowment growth and that will determine their choice. Right! The dorms are old but today everything is digital so who cares if things are not hard wired? That student wants to see a campus that meets their immediate needs.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 03, 2017, 04:44:05 PMRamblers, the mascot is dressed in a wolf head
I don't know when they changed the mascot, but as late as the 80's the mascot was a guy in a hobo outfit.
Quote from: VU75 on December 03, 2017, 08:48:03 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on December 03, 2017, 04:44:05 PMRamblers, the mascot is dressed in a wolf head
I don't know when they changed the mascot, but as late as the 80's the mascot was a guy in a hobo outfit.
(http://loyolaphoenix.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/image-1200x1464.jpeg)
(http://www.lib.luc.edu/specialcollections/files/fullsize/e5f76e03c6667d744e88900e52f16db3.jpg)
(http://www.lib.luc.edu/specialcollections/files/fullsize/6e7cb08501a713ea3ba4c36f100c9815.jpg)
VULB#62, maybe this article will better answer your question about what makes a D1 school. http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification (http://www.ncaa.org/about/who-we-are/membership/divisional-differences-and-history-multidivision-classification)
Looks like I was wrong and there is some minimum overall scholarship requirement, although the exact number is not specified. Also, it is not mentioned in the article, but I think the process for new members includes some stricter requirements than for existing schools.
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 03, 2017, 08:35:11 PM
72, we've covered the Colby endowment in past posts. That is not my point, so let's get past that. I used that to make another point. My point is that other colleges are recognizing that building a student recreation and athletics facility (for that matter any freaking "amenities" facility) that attracts future students is a positive investment given the competitive environment we face. Anything less is adhereing to the status quo and that puts Valpo on the downward escalator in today's competitive educational market. Valpo can sit on its ass or it can be aggressive. IMO, the institutions that choose to be conservative or rely on the successes of the past are rapidly losing ground to those who attack the future.
Do the dorms need upgrading? Yes. Does the endowment need expansion? Certainly. ........And that 18 year old potential student is closely following that endowment growth and that will determine their choice. Right! The dorms are old but today everything is digital so who cares if things are not hard wired? That student wants to see a campus that meets their immediate needs.
But it is your point 62. As for amenities, for us internet folks, that would be $600,000 of the new video equipment. Or, how about the fact that our library and union were internet jokes? Not any more. As for being competitive, how about the new state of the art chem/bio building for attracting the brightest and the best students. Dorms are a big deal (particularly when they lack air conditioning in September) and that is why one of the new projects will be the redo of one of the dorms built in 1965. If anybody thinks running Valpo is easy, they are wrong. One major mistake could take Valpo down, period. As for those who think the administration isn't invested in athletics I ask that they read the latest Valpo magazine. Has anyone read it? It is FULL of news about the change to the Valley and is FULL of written comments about the administration's commitment to athletics. Time will tell, but at the same time, blaming past failures to take advantage of athletic news will not help. I feel strongly that the people in charge of athletics and the administration will move this forward in a financially responsible fashion.
I am sure they will according to their plan.
A few thou to upgrade the PA system in the ARC would be appreciated. From where we sit, we can barely hear a garbled John Bowker (and this is when there is no crowd noise) , because there are no speakers pointed in our direction.
$600,000 for new video equipment? Fine, no problem, thats easy. Lets do a pay game with someone. If needed play a couple pay games. Some schools fund their entire athletic budget based on pay games. I even think Oakland (king of the HL) plays a couple pay games.
Personally, if a school has to play 4 pay games a season, they should not be DI. (I look forward to reading M's article on what the requirements are to be D1) I'm afraid that in the near future DI will only be power 5 conferences.....
Back to pay games....I've asked several times but don't think anyone knows the answer. Is Purdue paying us to come play?
(Oppland said he had a once in life time expereience playing Duke at Cameron - surely that was a pay game?) Let's do a couple pay games and get new video equipment.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 05, 2017, 08:30:56 AM
$600,000 for new video equipment? Fine, no problem, thats easy. Lets do a pay game with someone. If needed play a couple pay games. Some schools fund their entire athletic budget based on pay games. I even think Oakland (king of the HL) plays a couple pay games.
Personally, if a school has to play 4 pay games a season, they should not be DI. (I look forward to reading M's article on what the requirements are to be D1) I'm afraid that in the near future DI will only be power 5 conferences.....
Back to pay games....I've asked several times but don't think anyone knows the answer. Is Purdue paying us to come play?
(Oppland said he had a once in life time expereience playing Duke at Cameron - surely that was a pay game?) Let's do a couple pay games and get new video equipment.
I think the problem with that is that its so difficult to find a high major that wants to play us because they are scared it could be a trap game, yet alone pay us to play them.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 05, 2017, 08:30:56 AM
$600,000 for new video equipment? Fine, no problem, thats easy. Lets do a pay game with someone. If needed play a couple pay games. Some schools fund their entire athletic budget based on pay games. I even think Oakland (king of the HL) plays a couple pay games.
Personally, if a school has to play 4 pay games a season, they should not be DI. (I look forward to reading M's article on what the requirements are to be D1) I'm afraid that in the near future DI will only be power 5 conferences.....
Back to pay games....I've asked several times but don't think anyone knows the answer. Is Purdue paying us to come play?
(Oppland said he had a once in life time expereience playing Duke at Cameron - surely that was a pay game?) Let's do a couple pay games and get new video equipment.
[/b]
My point was that we already have spent the $600k on this equipment as it was a requirement of The Valley to step it up so now we have instant replay etc including a entirely new video production room at the ARC, which wasn't the case last year. We also now have video of football games and soon will have video of softball and even baseball after we spend a bunch more to get cable out to East Gate.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 05, 2017, 08:30:56 AM
Back to pay games....I've asked several times but don't think anyone knows the answer. Is Purdue paying us to come play?
I don't have current information, but going back to '14 and '15, Purdue was paying $80-$90k per game for opponents like IPFW and Ball State. Unless Purdue is planning a return game to the ARC (unlikely), I assume Valpo would be getting around $100k for the game.
Quote from: AranJacobs on December 05, 2017, 08:34:05 AMI think the problem with that is that its so difficult to find a high major that wants to play us because they are scared it could be a trap game, yet alone pay us to play them.
I'm sure Painter and Bobinski are saying to each other "really glad we scheduled Valpo, they have never lost any games to low end RPI teams and really prepare us well for the B1G games."
Okay, that last part of the statement really isn't that far off.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 02, 2017, 10:45:55 PM
What makes a program D1? Number of sports offered or number of scholarships?
The answer to your question is university
mindset:
D-I Mindset: He's going to start because he runs a 4.4 40.
D-III Mindset: He's going to start because he has a 4.4 cumulative GPA.
D-I Mindset: When we invest in athletic facility upgrades, we are doing so so that we can put our student athletes in the best possible position to compete and win championships.
D-III Mindset: When we invest in athletic facility upgrades, we are doing so so that our students can maintain healthy lifestyles and have a place to work out.
D-I Mindset: Our athletic programs are integral to our university community.
D-III Mindset: Our athletic programs are ancillary to our university community.
You get the idea.
Correct me if I'm wrong but we've already been doing a few "buy-games" the last few seasons. Those funds are already going somewhere or budgeted. Maybe those funds are being used for coaching salaries. At the end of the day we shouldn't do anything to hurt our on court product to make a couple extra $100k. It has to make basketball sense first. Buy-Games shouldn't be leaned upon to fund ARC upgrades.
2017-18:
-Purdue
-Northwestern
2016-17:
-Oregon
-Kentucky
2015-16:
-Oregon
-Oregon State
Quote from: AranJacobs on December 05, 2017, 08:34:05 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 05, 2017, 08:30:56 AM
$600,000 for new video equipment? Fine, no problem, thats easy. Lets do a pay game with someone. If needed play a couple pay games. Some schools fund their entire athletic budget based on pay games. I even think Oakland (king of the HL) plays a couple pay games.
Personally, if a school has to play 4 pay games a season, they should not be DI. (I look forward to reading M's article on what the requirements are to be D1) I'm afraid that in the near future DI will only be power 5 conferences.....
Back to pay games....I've asked several times but don't think anyone knows the answer. Is Purdue paying us to come play?
(Oppland said he had a once in life time expereience playing Duke at Cameron - surely that was a pay game?) Let's do a couple pay games and get new video equipment.
I think the problem with that is that its so difficult to find a high major that wants to play us because they are scared it could be a trap game, yet alone pay us to play them.
The answer to the question "Is Purdue paying us to come play?" is not answered here, but information concerning how and why the schedule came together is part of this Union Street Podcast. The scheduling discussion starts at 27:41. Union Street Hoops Episode 36 (http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_bcec8bec-8dcb-11e7-8f86-5b81f5440cce.html) I read so many questions, why are we playing non D1 schools, why can't we get this or that team to do a 1 for 1 or 2 for 1, etc. etc., on this board that I think everyone should listen to this episode. Can our schedule get better... Yes, did we just change conferences... Yes, will being in the MVC help our scheduling.... Yes, it is a work in progress that caused some hiccups in this year's schedule.
Quote from: valpospartan on December 04, 2017, 11:06:14 PMFrom where we sit, we can barely hear a garbled John Bowker (and this is when there is no crowd noise) , because there are no speakers pointed in our direction.
My wife would pay serious money to have that method installed in our family room.
Quote from: FWalum on December 05, 2017, 11:31:11 AMQuote from: AranJacobs on December 05, 2017, 08:34:05 AMQuote from: oklahomamick on December 05, 2017, 08:30:56 AM$600,000 for new video equipment? Fine, no problem, thats easy. Lets do a pay game with someone. If needed play a couple pay games. Some schools fund their entire athletic budget based on pay games. I even think Oakland (king of the HL) plays a couple pay games. Personally, if a school has to play 4 pay games a season, they should not be DI. (I look forward to reading M's article on what the requirements are to be D1) I'm afraid that in the near future DI will only be power 5 conferences..... Back to pay games....I've asked several times but don't think anyone knows the answer. Is Purdue paying us to come play? (Oppland said he had a once in life time expereience playing Duke at Cameron - surely that was a pay game?) Let's do a couple pay games and get new video equipment.
I think the problem with that is that its so difficult to find a high major that wants to play us because they are scared it could be a trap game, yet alone pay us to play them.
The answer to the question "Is Purdue paying us to come play?" is not answered here, but information concerning how and why the schedule came together is part of this Union Street Podcast. The scheduling discussion starts at 27:41. Union Street Hoops Episode 36 (http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_bcec8bec-8dcb-11e7-8f86-5b81f5440cce.html) I read so many questions, why are we playing non D1 schools, why can't we get this or that team to do a 1 for 1 or 2 for 1, etc. etc., on this board that I think everyone should listen to this episode. Can our schedule get better... Yes, did we just change conferences... Yes, will being in the MVC help our scheduling.... Yes, it is a work in progress that caused some hiccups in this year's schedule.
I find the apparent willingness to play non-D1s and bottom feeder programs like Chicago State into the future Coach Gore showed in this interview alarming.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 05, 2017, 02:31:11 PM
I find the apparent willingness to play non-D1s and bottom feeder programs like Chicago State into the future Coach Gore showed in this interview alarming.
I'm not a fan of those games either. I hope we are beyond specifically the bottom feeding teams. Non-D1s offer value of getting a game a home tuneup game that won't hurt our RPI. Playing the Chicago States of the world actually hurt our RPI and not to mention it annoys the fans and its a tough sell to paying customers.
Bottom line the home non-conference schedule opponents were bad and it needs to be better next season because the Team/Athletics Department owes it to the fans and the season ticket holders specifically. But I will say that I personally give them a pass this season because of the Conference switch affecting scheduling and we need to ramp up schedule with this team. Not to mention we have 9 new Conference opponents that will be visiting the ARC. Being able to see MVC Teams in the ARC is 1000% better then the see bottom feeding Horizon League teams march into the ARC and leaving with their tails between their legs. It's just a complete upgrade.
Quote from: FWalum on December 05, 2017, 11:31:11 AM
Quote from: AranJacobs on December 05, 2017, 08:34:05 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 05, 2017, 08:30:56 AM
$600,000 for new video equipment? Fine, no problem, thats easy. Lets do a pay game with someone. If needed play a couple pay games. Some schools fund their entire athletic budget based on pay games. I even think Oakland (king of the HL) plays a couple pay games.
Personally, if a school has to play 4 pay games a season, they should not be DI. (I look forward to reading M's article on what the requirements are to be D1) I'm afraid that in the near future DI will only be power 5 conferences.....
Back to pay games....I've asked several times but don't think anyone knows the answer. Is Purdue paying us to come play?
(Oppland said he had a once in life time expereience playing Duke at Cameron - surely that was a pay game?) Let's do a couple pay games and get new video equipment.
I think the problem with that is that its so difficult to find a high major that wants to play us because they are scared it could be a trap game, yet alone pay us to play them.
The answer to the question "Is Purdue paying us to come play?" is not answered here, but information concerning how and why the schedule came together is part of this Union Street Podcast. The scheduling discussion starts at 27:41. Union Street Hoops Episode 36 (http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_bcec8bec-8dcb-11e7-8f86-5b81f5440cce.html) I read so many questions, why are we playing non D1 schools, why can't we get this or that team to do a 1 for 1 or 2 for 1, etc. etc., on this board that I think everyone should listen to this episode. Can our schedule get better... Yes, did we just change conferences... Yes, will being in the MVC help our scheduling.... Yes, it is a work in progress that caused some hiccups in this year's schedule.
Next time Luke Gore is on USH turn the thermostat down to 40 and hand him a pair of winter mittens. It would help the show a great deal.
Ignore the interview and just look at the background. Missouri State has a really nice arena. It was pretty embarrassing during the Valpo vs MSU broadcast when Missouri State's broadcaster said it's like a really nice high school gym when they were describing the ARC.
If someone did a Power Ranking of MVC arena/facilities we would by far the worst arena. What's even sadder is it sounds like we have no plans to improve our situation. We're just holding out hope a donor will come improve our situation. Any donor would likely donate towards a student rec before any ARC reno.
https://twitter.com/Alec_McChesney/status/948619594893332481
Quote from: VU2014 on January 03, 2018, 01:52:50 PMIgnore the interview and just look at the background. Missouri State has a really nice arena. It was pretty embarrassing during the Valpo vs MSU broadcast when Missouri State's broadcaster said it's like a really nice high school gym when they were describe the ARC.
They also said how loud it was and that the fans were right on top of the court. MSU's place doesn't look very "intimate"
Quote from: vu72 on January 03, 2018, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 03, 2018, 01:52:50 PMIgnore the interview and just look at the background. Missouri State has a really nice arena. It was pretty embarrassing during the Valpo vs MSU broadcast when Missouri State's broadcaster said it's like a really nice high school gym when they were describe the ARC.
They also said how loud it was and that the fans were right on top of the court. MSU's place doesn't look very "intimate"
If we ever do a reno I hope they continue with the seats being right on top of the court because I do agree that it offers a great competitive advantage (also great for fans to be close to the court), but it doesn't change the fact that we are overdue for a facelift of the ARC to improve the fan experience and stay competitive with the league. Facilities don't hurt for recruiting either.
VU2014, I like what you are saying! The Athletic Dept and the University have ALOT of work to do in getting game prep, ARC prep (sound, lighting, etc., Todd being pushed upstairs)
and ARC renovation up to speed. I was there about 45 minutes before the MSU game started and it was like I was in a junior high building. COME ON VALPO, LET'S START ACTING LIKE WE ARE IN THE MISSOURI VALLEY CONFERENCE...oh, we already are. WELL LET'S GET WITH IT!!!! The way things have been run lately would make one think we are in the Summit League. It is one thing to be the newest member of the Valley but it's another thing to be the newest joke of the Conference. In many respects this has been a very disappointing season.
Quote from: valpo64 on January 03, 2018, 02:24:51 PM
VU2014, I like what you are saying! The Athletic Dept and the University have ALOT of work to do in getting game prep, ARC prep (sound, lighting, etc., Todd being pushed upstairs)
and ARC renovation up to speed. I was there about 45 minutes before the MSU game started and it was like I was in a junior high building. COME ON VALPO, LET'S START ACTING LIKE WE ARE IN THE MISSOURI VALLEY CONFERENCE...oh, we already are. WELL LET'S GET WITH IT!!!! The way things have been run lately would make one think we are in the Summit League. It is one thing to be the newest member of the Valley but it's another thing to be the newest joke of the Conference. In many respects this has been a very disappointing season.
64. Could not agree more. Like your spirit and [emoji91]. Some improvement is long overdue but never a real priority it seems.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vu72 on January 03, 2018, 02:00:14 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 03, 2018, 01:52:50 PMIgnore the interview and just look at the background. Missouri State has a really nice arena. It was pretty embarrassing during the Valpo vs MSU broadcast when Missouri State's broadcaster said it's like a really nice high school gym when they were describe the ARC.
They also said how loud it was and that the fans were right on top of the court. MSU's place doesn't look very "intimate"
I'm watching the UNI @ MSU game right now. I totally agree that the ARC is way more "intimate" than MSU's arena. The ARC fans are also closer to the court, especially when they bring in those temporary bleachers on the baseline for big games.
I love the close atmosphere of the ARC. It is definitely an advantage for us. We need to keep that in place but with other improvements like chairback seating on the lower level and expanding the upper north side I think we will have a great "Home" game atmosphere. I'm sure the Administration knows what needs to be done it is just that many of us are too impatient. By the way more restrooms and concession stands would be nice too. :)
Quote from: valpo64 on January 05, 2018, 10:24:25 AM
I love the close atmosphere of the ARC. It is definitely an advantage for us. We need to keep that in place but with other improvements like chairback seating on the lower level and expanding the upper north side I think we will have a great "Home" game atmosphere. I'm sure the Administration knows what needs to be done[7 c/b] it is just that many of us are too impatient. By the way more restrooms and concession stands would be nice too. :)
I think Mark LaBarbera & Co. knows what needs to be done but I'm honestly not sure if the higher ups & particular board members do...
But agreed we're all probably getting a little impatient. I just really want to see this program continue to grow and advance itself. Renovations would not only just make the fans happy & enhance the overall fan experience for casuals but it also sells good assistant coaches on coming to work for your program and also helps sell recruits on visits.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 05, 2018, 10:40:32 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on January 05, 2018, 10:24:25 AM
I love the close atmosphere of the ARC. It is definitely an advantage for us. We need to keep that in place but with other improvements like chairback seating on the lower level and expanding the upper north side I think we will have a great "Home" game atmosphere. I'm sure the Administration knows what needs to be done[7 c/b] it is just that many of us are too impatient. By the way more restrooms and concession stands would be nice too. :)
I think Mark LaBarbera & Co. knows what needs to be done but I'm honestly not sure if the higher ups & particular board members do...
But agreed we're all probably getting a little impatient. I just really want to see this program continue to grow and advance itself. Renovations would not only just make the fans happy & enhance the overall fan experience for casuals but it also sells good assistant coaches on come to work your program and also helps sell recruits on visits.
I always find it amusing when someone suggests others are "impatient" about facilities. I remember a number of discussions on this list about how the administration squandered the opportunity offered when Valpo made the Sweet Sixteen and received national recognition nearly two decades ago. We also had conversations on this list about excitement concerning the move to the MVC as another opportunity within a limited window to elevate and promote the program, but it also appears that is being squandered as well and complacency has already set in. Except for the banners of MVC schools replacing HL schools on the ARC wall, it seems as if nothing else has changed.
Quote from: valpopal on January 05, 2018, 10:58:41 AM
I always find it amusing when someone suggests others are "impatient" about facilities. I remember a number of discussions on this list about how the administration squandered the opportunity offered when Valpo made the Sweet Sixteen and received national recognition nearly two decades ago. We also had conversations on this list about excitement concerning the move to the MVC as another opportunity within a limited window to elevate and promote the program, but it also appears that is being squandered as well and complacency has already set in. Except for the banners of MVC schools replacing HL schools on the ARC wall, it seems as if nothing else has changed.
In the overall history of this program the administration has been dragging it's feet on supporting this program and has not capitalize on it's successes and pretty much just leached itself on to the Drew Family without really give them the resources to take the program to another level. Now the Drew Family is gone but they left what we hope to be a strong assistant to take over the program in Coach Lottich and Coach Gore has always been a great stalwart of the program and they've built a strong basketball brand/reputation/program, but there is a LOT to be desire from this administration in terms of support.
But in terms of the "what have you done for me lately" category they've made some moves. The Conference switch was huge for this program but I give most of that credit to the Athletics Department for that achievement. They did spend big bucks on the broadcast equipment upgrades, so thats something. We got a new court a few years ago but there is still left to be desired (NEEDS*) with these facilities.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 05, 2018, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: valpopal on January 05, 2018, 10:58:41 AM
I always find it amusing when someone suggests others are "impatient" about facilities. I remember a number of discussions on this list about how the administration squandered the opportunity offered when Valpo made the Sweet Sixteen and received national recognition nearly two decades ago. We also had conversations on this list about excitement concerning the move to the MVC as another opportunity within a limited window to elevate and promote the program, but it also appears that is being squandered as well and complacency has already set in. Except for the banners of MVC schools replacing HL schools on the ARC wall, it seems as if nothing else has changed.
In the overall history of this program the administration has been dragging it's feet on supporting this program and has not capitalize on it's successes and pretty much just leached itself on to the Drew Family without really give them the resources to take the program to another level. Now the Drew Family is gone but they left what we hope to be a strong assistant to take over the program in Coach Lottich and Coach Gore has always been a great stalwart of the program and they've built a strong basketball brand/reputation/program, but there is a LOT to be desire from this administration in terms of support.
But in terms of the "what have you done for me lately" category they've made some moves. The Conference switch was huge for this program but I give most of that credit to the Athletics Department for that achievement. They did spend big bucks on the broadcast equipment upgrades, so thats something. We got a new court a few years ago but there is still left to be desired (NEEDS*) with these facilities.
Air-conditioned Hilltop so we can train year round. Are you talking just basketball? There are a lot of non-revenue sports to support as well.
Quote from: vu72 on January 05, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
Air-conditioned Hilltop so we can train year round. Are you talking just basketball? There are a lot of non-revenue sports to support as well.
How sad is it that we are talking about AIR-CONDITIONING in 2018 lol as a major upgrade to our athletics facilities. It's so sad, all I can do is laugh about it lol.
I'm mainly just talking about Basketball because that is the chartered sport of this University. It sounds harsh but it's the most important sport and should be treated that way. That's not to say the other sports aren't important but if you have limited resources that should be the sport you should focus your resources in.
Quote from: vu72 on January 05, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 05, 2018, 11:30:14 AM
Quote from: valpopal on January 05, 2018, 10:58:41 AM
I always find it amusing when someone suggests others are "impatient" about facilities. I remember a number of discussions on this list about how the administration squandered the opportunity offered when Valpo made the Sweet Sixteen and received national recognition nearly two decades ago. We also had conversations on this list about excitement concerning the move to the MVC as another opportunity within a limited window to elevate and promote the program, but it also appears that is being squandered as well and complacency has already set in. Except for the banners of MVC schools replacing HL schools on the ARC wall, it seems as if nothing else has changed.
In the overall history of this program the administration has been dragging it's feet on supporting this program and has not capitalize on it's successes and pretty much just leached itself on to the Drew Family without really give them the resources to take the program to another level. Now the Drew Family is gone but they left what we hope to be a strong assistant to take over the program in Coach Lottich and Coach Gore has always been a great stalwart of the program and they've built a strong basketball brand/reputation/program, but there is a LOT to be desire from this administration in terms of support.
But in terms of the "what have you done for me lately" category they've made some moves. The Conference switch was huge for this program but I give most of that credit to the Athletics Department for that achievement. They did spend big bucks on the broadcast equipment upgrades, so thats something. We got a new court a few years ago but there is still left to be desired (NEEDS*) with these facilities.
Air-conditioned Hilltop so we can train year round. Are you talking just basketball? There are a lot of non-revenue sports to support as well.
Not an engineer or HVAC guy, and maybe it was a money thing or structural issue, but wonder why we put A/C in practice facility before main gym? Main gym used for D1 NCAA MBB, WBB, women's volleyball plus intramurals.
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Quote from: VU2014 on January 05, 2018, 12:24:29 PM
Quote from: vu72 on January 05, 2018, 12:07:42 PM
Air-conditioned Hilltop so we can train year round. Are you talking just basketball? There are a lot of non-revenue sports to support as well.
How sad is it that we are talking about AIR-CONDITIONING in 2018 lol as a major upgrade to our athletics facilities. It's so sad, all I can do is laugh about it lol.
I'm mainly just talking about Basketball because that is the chartered sport of this University. It sounds harsh but it's the most important sport and should be treated that way. That's not to say the other sports aren't important but if you have limited resources that should be the sport you should focus your resources in.
Sorry but a $500,000 expenditure is nothing to sneeze at. As for why Hilltop and not the ARC, it is a money issue and a space dedicated to basketball and volleyball training where the ARC is used by the student body for lots of activities and sports.
;)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Mgs7NWPOdsj9m/giphy.gif)
I tried "Hey Alexa: build me a new ARC"... all I got was quotes from Genesis
Will upgrading the ARC, as suggested , lead to increased attendance?
Quote from: valpospartan on January 05, 2018, 10:50:56 PM
Will upgrading the ARC, as suggested , lead to increased attendance?
Doubtful in short term. If it attracts and retains more quality players Tevonn or better....might improve attendance down the road with consistent Top 65 teams.
What's the condition of Evansville arena? Aren't we most alike to them in student body and the like? If they have a new arena, has their attendance improved?
Quote from: valpospartan on January 05, 2018, 10:50:56 PM
Will upgrading the ARC, as suggested , lead to increased attendance?
[/b]
Of course it will! Throwing money at facilities always helps attendance. Just ask Loyola! Heck, look at their packed house over the last three home games: 1904, 1914 and 1501. :rotfl:
Quote from: vu72 on January 06, 2018, 07:57:13 AM
Quote from: valpospartan on January 05, 2018, 10:50:56 PM
Will upgrading the ARC, as suggested , lead to increased attendance?
[/b]
Of course it will! Throwing money at facilities always helps attendance. Just ask Loyola! Heck, look at their packed house over the last three home games: 1904, 1914 and 1501. :rotfl:
No direct correlation to increased attendance. But having said that, it would make sense to upgrade a facility 30+ years old. Why does Valpo seem to always have the worst athletic facilities for its flagship sport of MBB regardless of conference affiliation?
The ARC as is was fine for the 1980-1990's era, but it is long past time to upgrade with amenities fans expect to see now. Coach Drew years ago asked for upgrades as I recall. He knows a bit about creating an environment to maximize potential of a D1 program I'd say. He was told no years ago.
Would it help recruiting? I'd suggest yes. Recruits and families I'm sure prefer nicer facilities. How many dollars and renovations has Butler invested in Hinkle? Has it worked for them in helping grow their MBB program? I'd have to say yes.
Yes. We replaced a floor and added a video scoreboard. We have updated locker rooms. Spent per MVC requirements on updated video area and equipment. Maybe someday we will get to the fan areas. Though it seems at least 20 years away since the rec center has to be funded and built first. Only then might the ARC see any improvements some of us would like to see. But funding it and construction might take another decade unless a wealthy donor comes along.
I know. Beating a dead horse again. [emoji237]
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If you build it they will come? I would be a lot more energized about this if we could get a genuinely strong turnout more often. Ya you, students!
Prove me wrong for the first two home MVC games with students back in class! Please prove me wrong!
In the meanwhile I suggest a large mural or a "virtual crowd" be placed on the mezzanine level that pictures a full house for TV purposes. Might need a similar painting for the student section for most games.
Well, in terms of facilities, need to weigh the variables of what the university is seeking in enrollment through academic programming and needs vs. what alums and fans of the athletic department want for visual effect for a basketball game on tv, rather than those alums/fans making the trek to the facility regularly to show that our attendance has spiked to a point where increasing/improving the seating would be beneficial to overall university/undergrad growth...
I think the President and Board of Directors are doing what works to get more people into Valpo, and not just focusing on about 4-8 basketball players that wouldn't be paying tuition. We all know the dorms and housing need vast improvement because you have to have students living on campus, compared with people coming for a couple hours of basketball, and then going home to their nice warm homes.
Do I agree that the ARC needs some improvements? Yes, I do, but not at the expense of turning away students that bring in more tuition revenue that also brings in more future donors for all programming on campus. Should we build a NEW ARC and STUDENT REC Center NOW, and watch ourselves become the next St. Joes, where the doors are closed because we're losing students and endowments?
A facilities discussion in the middle of a game we're finally winning? lol
One small cosmetic change I'd like to see:
Instead of all those Mid Con banners (A conference that no longer exists, at least by that name), I'd like to see one for Regular Season Champions, years listed, then same for tourney champs, NCAA appearances, etc. Special banners for Sweet Sixteen and NIT Runner Up. Clean up the rafters a bit.
QuoteWhat's the condition of Evansville arena? Aren't we most alike to them in student body and the like? If they have a new arena, has their attendance improved?
The answer to your question is yes: http://gopurpleaces.com/news/2016/3/9/attendance-up-across-the-board-for-mens-basketball.aspx?path=mbball
And that's including the fact that the arena is three miles from UE's campus.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 10, 2018, 11:33:26 AM
QuoteWhat's the condition of Evansville arena? Aren't we most alike to them in student body and the like? If they have a new arena, has their attendance improved?
The answer to your question is yes: http://gopurpleaces.com/news/2016/3/9/attendance-up-across-the-board-for-mens-basketball.aspx?path=mbball
And that's including the fact that the arena is three miles from UE's campus.
Excellent, thanks for sharing. I wonder if the budget (costs) went up the same %....
Did you notice that they closed the "upper bowl" seating area to move people to the lower arena to give a more exciting atmosphere which also helps crowd noise and appearance of a larger crowd.
QuoteExcellent, thanks for sharing. I wonder if the budget (costs) went up the same %....
Hard to tell, as it's a city-owned facility (as was Roberts Stadium), so presumably, the Aces have to pay some type of lease.
If Drake University, a similar-sized and similar-academic university compared to Valpo, can build a nice multi-purpose facility like the Knapp Center, then why can't Valpo. Both schools have similar funds.
Also, at this time for an athletic facility to not have air conditioning and to have concerns about spending $500K is overly frugal.
Quote from: valpo64 on January 10, 2018, 01:57:22 PM
Did you notice that they closed the "upper bowl" seating area to move people to the lower arena to give a more exciting atmosphere which also helps crowd noise and appearance of a larger crowd.
The Ford Center is a great facility for college basketball. Not being on campus isn't ideal, but The Ford Center is located right downtown and near hotels, restaurants and casino. Definitely worth the trip if Valpo plays there on a weekend in future years.
And for those who want more/better concession choices, this is the place! http://fordcenter.com/plan/food_beverage/ (http://fordcenter.com/plan/food_beverage/)
Valpo should look at the Knapp Center as an ideal facility. If Drake can do it, Valpo can also.
yes, Valpo can..........if they want to!
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 10, 2018, 03:54:48 PM
If Drake University, a similar-sized and similar-academic university compared to Valpo, can build a nice multi-purpose facility like the Knapp Center, then why can't Valpo. Both schools have similar funds.
Also, at this time for an athletic facility to not have air conditioning and to have concerns about spending $500K is overly frugal.
The difference is that Drake was more proactive throughout the past couple decades of updating/up-keeping and building new academic buildings and dorms then compared to Valparaiso University. Valparaiso has started to see campus development & badly need reinvestment the past 6-7 years or so.
yes, Valpo sat on its hands for too long regarding new facilities and needed renovations. In the last 15 years we have seen a new library, new union, two new residence halls (not including the Uptown and Promenade apts.) new softball field and tennis court. a new science center, Meteorology building and a building for the college of arts and science. Regarding athletics we now have air conditioning in Hilltop, a new roof for the Arc, the Track installed and a new court floor and sound system as well as a new refinished basketball wing and locker rooms and an updated workout room for football and the relocation to the old book store of a campus fitness center rather than having that shoved into a corner of the ARC. Oh and also the new Admissions building.
also the purchase of the hospital grounds, tearing down of Miller and Huegli, renovation of Brandt Hall and plans for updating the other freshman style dorms.
A LOT has happened in the last 15 years but part of that was cramming in projects that were necessary maybe even ten years prior. We have been playing catch-up but I've been happy with the aggressiveness we've seen in improvements
Quote from: crusader05 on January 11, 2018, 07:09:55 AM
yes, Valpo sat on its hands for too long regarding new facilities and needed renovations. In the last 15 years we have seen a new library, new union, two new residence halls (not including the Uptown and Promenade apts.) new softball field and tennis court. a new science center, Meteorology building and a building for the college of arts and science. Regarding athletics we now have air conditioning in Hilltop, a new roof for the Arc, the Track installed and a new court floor and sound system as well as a new refinished basketball wing and locker rooms and an updated workout room for football and the relocation to the old book store of a campus fitness center rather than having that shoved into a corner of the ARC. Oh and also the new Admissions building.
also the purchase of the hospital grounds, tearing down of Miller and Huegli, renovation of Brandt Hall and plans for updating the other freshman style dorms.
A LOT has happened in the last 15 years but part of that was cramming in projects that were necessary maybe even ten years prior. We have been playing catch-up but I've been happy with the aggressiveness we've seen in improvements
When are they going to install that new sound system?
Quote from: valpospartan on January 11, 2018, 10:35:06 PM
When are they going to install that new sound system?
I believe we got a new one but it doesn't work very well. The sound isn't very evenly distributed throughout the arena. I remember someone mentioning they brought in some sort of sound expert to fix the issue but it didn't seem to fully fix the sound issues.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 12, 2018, 12:37:51 AM
Quote from: valpospartan on January 11, 2018, 10:35:06 PM
When are they going to install that new sound system?
I believe we got a new one but it doesn't work very well. The sound isn't very evenly distributed throughout the arena. I remember someone mentioning they brought in some sort of sound expert to fix the issue but it didn't seem to fully fix the sound issues.
Per the Hudson Institute, which is "committed to innovative research and analysis that promotes global security, prosperity and freedom," the 4 most complicated issues in the world today are:
1. Finding a cure for cancer
2. Resolving the N. Korean conflict
3. Fixing the sound system at Valparaiso University's ARC (Valparaiso, IN, United States of Amereica)
4. Global warming
It will be interesting to see which of the 4 gets solved first.
Check out Grand Valley State's indoor field house! Top-notch! One day we may have this for our athletics.https://twitter.com/ValpoTrack/status/951882515375181826
Do you think that being a State school has anything to do with getting these facilities? :)
Quote from: valpo64 on January 12, 2018, 07:26:46 PM
Do you think that being a State school has anything to do with getting these facilities? :)
Perhaps, but keep in mind it is a DII school and the field house is named the Kelly Family Recreation Center because Brian Kelly, now of Notre Dame fame, was the driving force behind getting it built while he was HFBC there. GVSU can put many FCS schools to shame with their facilities — they're beautiful.
QuoteDo you think that being a State school has anything to do with getting these facilities?
Um, no, since state funds can't be used for athletics or student rec facilities in most states?
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 12, 2018, 11:15:22 PM
QuoteDo you think that being a State school has anything to do with getting these facilities?
Um, no, since state funds can't be used for athletics or student rec facilities in most states?
I attended Grand Valley. The fieldhouse is new. Within the last ten years and was supported by Brian Kelly. I can't speak to where the funding comes from but the entire campus is beautiful. Some older buildings but a number of newer ones and overall all felt fresh and up to date. They are a much larger school than valpo but have embraced that they are division 2 and build nice facilities that fit their needs.
I attended before the fieldhouse pictured was built but back then they still had a student Rec center with gym space, workout facilities, and pool for student use and it was well used. We know valpo needs to raise funds for One but it would definitely benefit the entire student body and hopefully entice more prospective students.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 12, 2018, 11:15:22 PMQuoteDo you think that being a State school has anything to do with getting these facilities?
Um, no, since state funds can't be used for athletics or student rec facilities in most states?
Are you sure about that? I thought I read somewhere that a significant portion of the funding for the upcoming renovations to the Hulman Center at Indiana State is coming from state funds but perhaps I'm mistaken.
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 12, 2018, 07:49:16 PMQuote from: valpo64 on January 12, 2018, 07:26:46 PMDo you think that being a State school has anything to do with getting these facilities? :)
Perhaps, but keep in mind it is a DII school and the field house is named the Kelly Family Recreation Center because Brian Kelly, now of Notre Dame fame, was the driving force behind getting it built while he was HFBC there. GVSU can put many FCS schools to shame with their facilities — they're beautiful.
FWIW...Youngstown State has a similar facility which was named after Jim Tressel. So I assume the trick to getting a facility of this kind built is to have a HFBC move on to great things after leaving the school who builds the facility.
Go Coach Cecchini!!!!!!
Quote from: valpo64 on January 12, 2018, 07:26:46 PM
Do you think that being a State school has anything to do with getting these facilities? :)
Since a lot of state schools are much larger than VU, they have more graduates and therefore more chances of having some of them donate money for facilities. One state school, of which I am familiar, has numerous private donors for FB & BB facilities. For example, A $7.5 M expansion to their BB arena was paid for entirely by private donations.
QuoteAre you sure about that? I thought I read somewhere that a significant portion of the funding for the upcoming renovations to the Hulman Center at Indiana State is coming from state funds but perhaps I'm mistaken.
It's against the law in Indiana (and Ohio and Illinois, and most other states - WV is the only one that I'm aware of without some sort of restriction). It's one of the reasons Ball State's football stadium renovation took nearly a decade and was significantly scaled down from the original plans.
If there are classrooms/academic facilities inside the Hulman Center, then state funds can be used for those, but not for anything related to athletics or the athletic portion. The state is pretty strict about enforcing those firewalls.
Oh look another MVC School making improvements to it's already nice arena....
ISU is renovating the lower bowl in the next year or two: http://wznd.com/sports/redbird-arena-lower-bowl-getting-new-facelift/
Quote from: VU2014 on January 26, 2018, 11:27:26 PM
Oh look another MVC School making improvements to it's already nice arena....
ISU is renovating the lower bowl in the next year or two: http://wznd.com/sports/redbird-arena-lower-bowl-getting-new-facelift/
Seems like at
age 30 their arena (considered one of the best in the MVC) needs refurbishing because they are having problems with replacement parts and they see this as an
opportunity to also bring the seating closer to the court, add some specialized seating area upgrades and improve the game experience. I believe that the ARC opened for business in 1984. That makes it, ummm ....... 34? Do ya think??? Nah.
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 27, 2018, 10:29:56 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 26, 2018, 11:27:26 PM
Oh look another MVC School making improvements to it's already nice arena....
ISU is renovating the lower bowl in the next year or two: http://wznd.com/sports/redbird-arena-lower-bowl-getting-new-facelift/
Seems like at age 30 their arena (considered one of the best in the MVC) needs refurbishing because they are having problems with replacement parts and they see this as an opportunity to also bring the seating closer to the court, add some specialized seating area upgrades and improve the game experience. I believe that the ARC opened for business in 1984. That makes it, ummm ....... 34? Do ya think??? Nah.
In Valpo years that means we're on track to get an ARC renovation by 2050. :thumbsup:
Along similar lines, I live about a 4+ hour drive from Valpo. I manage to make it down to a couple of Saturday afternoon football games in the Fall. When we were in the HL, I usually made it a point to attend BB games in MKE and at the Resch in GB.
I really would like to attend a game in the ARC. And I sometimes considered making the drive down for key games, but always rejected the idea. Besides driving over 8 hours R/T and in all likelihood having to stay overnight, the other major factor was that I wasn't going to do all that to sit in an uncomfortable chairback or, worse yet, bench seats for a two hour BB game.
OTOH, if my game experience would include better, more comfortable seating, nicer ambiance (like a good sound system), interesting half time entertainment and decent concession food it would make the effort more worthwhile.
I guess my attitude can probably be classified as being a fair weather fan, but these are concerns that I bet I share with other less-than-maniacally rabid fans who live even closer.
Valpo is a decent school, but their passiveness toward progress and their frugality really ticks me off. Regarding satellite campuses, they are so behind the times. I see many satellite campus or buildings at small colleges in Iowa, and it has helped their enrollment and status. Valpo needs to get in sync with the millennium.
No, the current campaign is scheduled to end in late 2021. Don't you suppose the ARC and Fieldhouse will become immediate priorities for rasiing cash?
Also.....I think I asked Oakland U people in the 2004 ish about the O-Rena costs and they said it was 3/4 paid by the state. But that could be unique to Michigan or before the states started to get budget crunched after 2009 market crash.
That O-Rena money could also have come from housing the arena within an instructional building. On tv and website, it appears SIUE did the same thing, likely to get state funding. There are probably seating limits in doing that since both are tiny sub-4,000 arenas.
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 27, 2018, 11:14:32 AM
I guess my attitude can probably be classified as being a fair weather fan, but these are concerns that I bet I share with other less-than-maniacally rabid fans who live even closer.
If you're on this board that means you're not a fair weather fan. You definitely bring up relevant points about the gameday experience and concerns about the facility. Valpo Basketball is in competition for peoples entertainment dollars and value needs to be returned.
When I was at NC State we built what is now the RBC Center, home of NC State basketball and The Carolina Hurricanes. 75% of the funding came from the State of North Carolina and Wake County.
Indiana State's renovation of the Hulman Center will be funded primarily with a state appropriation.
http://www.tribstar.com/news/hulman-center-renovation-receives-final-state-approval/article_d9179c7e-b5a5-11e7-a03e-634744136008.html
Illinois State's renovations to Redbird Arena will be paid for with funds from a sinking fund that covered the bond payments on the building. Student fees make up that sinking fund.
State schools use state, and other governmental entities, appropriations and student fee revenue on a regular basis to build athletics and recreational facilities. The bigger schools like NC State and Purdue will then supplement those with donations or revenue from their conference TV networks. Student fee revenue at state schools like Illinois State with 21,000+ students can be significant.
Schools like Valpo have really only have access one of those revenue sources, donations.
Quote from: ml on January 27, 2018, 11:30:29 AM
Schools like Valpo have really only have access one of those revenue sources, donations.
ML, thank you for the response.
Is there any plans in the near future to start fundraising for potential ARC renovations? I'm not a millionaire but I'd be willing to donate specifically to this cause if I saw blue-prints and saw a plan come together with a time-frame. I know I'm not the only one. I know finding the lead donor(s) probably isn't an easy task but maybe there is a few lead donors that would be willing to match donations for the cause. A larger group could help contribute and feel a part of the cause.
IMO the first step is a small investment: Conceptual drawings of possible ARC renovations that would generate interest and provide , maybe, a 5 year target. Step two: Throw out the question to ALL alumni, "Would you contribute?" Step three: based on responses, scale the renovations to the response. Step four: Do it -- Sooner than later.
The Key: letting ALL alumni in on what might be a possibility. I am not a lead donor and never will be, but I'll be willing to pony up $$$ if I knew what the hell I am donating to.
I'm retired and now on a fixed income. I will not give another penny to athletics unless I know precisely where that penny is going, I am tired of seeing forward planning that is not shared with the general alumni community. The lead donor philosophy senda a clear message specifically to me: I'm not worthy of being included. So be it, then.
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 27, 2018, 11:30:04 PM
IMO the first step is a small investment: Conceptual drawings of possible ARC renovations that would generate interest and provide , maybe, a 5 year target. Step two: Throw out the question to ALL alumni, "Would you contribute?" Step three: based on responses, scale the renovations to the response. Step four: Do it -- Sooner than later.
The Key: letting ALL alumni in on what might be a possibility. I am not a lead donor and never will be, but I'll be willing to pony up $$$ if I knew what the hell I am donating to.
I'm retired and now on a fixed income. I will not give another penny to athletics unless I know precisely where that penny is going, I am tired of seeing forward planning that is not shared with the general alumni community. The lead donor philosophy senda a clear message specifically to me: I'm not worthy of being included. So be it, then.
Everything about this post I 100% agree with.
I wish the alumni could get some sort of "State of Athletics" Speech from the athletics department every year that wasn't just lip service. Tell us what future plans are and what the goals are.
On further read, that state appropriation for Hulman Center looks like there was some, uh, VERY creative packaging done by the university, city of Terre Haute and Vigo County to position it as part of a convention center facility for the region and the city's de facto civic center. That's definitely the exception and not the rule when it comes to state-school athletic facilities in Indiana (and I'll be honest: I'm not sure how they got away with that nor how IU, Purdue, Ball State, etc. aren't screaming bloody murder about it - it is a pretty clear circumvention of state higher ed funding guidelines for university-owned facilities and a definite departure from how the state has done business on this in the past).
That said - the notion that private schools have not gotten public funding or support for arenas is not true: DePaul just got half of their new arena paid for by the city of Chicago. Wake Forest's arena was publicly funded and then was sold back to the university for a song by Winston-Salem. There are several other examples. Not saying something like that could be done in Valpo - but the city was willing to explore a creative solution like that in the past, and who knows what the new incoming mayoral administration (whomever it turns out to be) will be open to.
I think both the city and university are missing the ball a bit on the old hospital site. I know the oft mentioned field house is the plan there (ground breaking any day now I'm sure), but with the Star Plaza shutting down a new venue that seats 5k for b-ball or a concert would really fit in well imo.
Absolutely that. The exit of the Star Plaza leaves a gaping hole in the market for a mid-sized concert and event venue in NWI. There's a big piece of currently-vacant property adjacent to downtown Valpo where some creative minds could make a solution work for both the city/county and the university.
Be careful, a facility on campus is a much better solution. Look at DePaul with their experience at Rosemont, not that their new solution has been a big success.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 29, 2018, 10:07:15 AM
Absolutely that. The exit of the Star Plaza leaves a gaping hole in the market for a mid-sized concert and event venue in NWI. There's a big piece of currently-vacant property adjacent to downtown Valpo where some creative minds could make a solution work for both the city/county and the university.
The Star Plaza was located at one of the highest trafficked intersections in NWI (65 and 30) and presumably was not profitable (or else it's owners would have kept it open). I'm not sure why this experience would suggest that a facility located in Valpo would be such a money maker. In addition, there is a 2k-3k sized concert venue at the casino in Hammond, which I would guess can operate at a loss in order to draw people into the casino where the real profits are made. That would be extremely tough competition for any new venue in the area, and may have been part of the reason for the end of the Star Plaza.
Quote from: ml2 on January 29, 2018, 10:40:48 AMQuote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 29, 2018, 10:07:15 AMAbsolutely that. The exit of the Star Plaza leaves a gaping hole in the market for a mid-sized concert and event venue in NWI. There's a big piece of currently-vacant property adjacent to downtown Valpo where some creative minds could make a solution work for both the city/county and the university.
The Star Plaza was located at one of the highest trafficked intersections in NWI (65 and 30) and presumably was not profitable (or else it's owners would have kept it open). I'm not sure why this experience would suggest that a facility located in Valpo would be such a money maker. In addition, there is a 2k-3k sized concert venue at the casino in Hammond, which I would guess can operate at a loss in order to draw people into the casino where the real profits are made. That would be extremely tough competition for any new venue in the area, and may have been part of the reason for the end of the Star Plaza.
If it's sole purpose was to be an event/concert destination I would agree, but at Valpo, it's mixed use would make sense. Basketball and other sports could fill most of the schedule and its ability to host concerts and other events would be an additional revenue stream, but not dependent on it.
A mixed use venue makes sense since it potentially creates a stable and larger revenue stream. However, Valpo should NEVER go off campus. Using the old hospital site for a mixed use venue makes a lot of sense, but even putting something downtown has real problems with having students be more involved or staying involved.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 29, 2018, 10:11:57 AM
Be careful, a facility on campus is a much better solution. Look at DePaul with their experience at Rosemont, not that their new solution has been a big success.
Yeah - their new solution is not a success and may never be one because it is still not within easy walking distance for students.
I was visiting a small D1 school a few years ago - a school very similar to Valpo in size, students living on campus, and overall types of students. They showed me their really nice, though small (2000 seat), field house that they use for all sports except Men's basketball. They played Men's basketball about 12 miles away in an 8000+ seat arena in a larger adjacent city. Despite busing the students to and from games for free, their attendance at the stadium is awful despite being fairly competitive (not as competitive as Valpo). When I asked why they didn't just play in the field house (and what they just didn't make the field house a little bigger), they said that the previous and current coach felt they needed a bigger arena to attract players...which makes no sense (they want to play in a big empty arena with no energy?). There is a similar story at UW-Milwaukee, though they have a much higher ratio of commuter versus on-campus students.
Yeah I don't see the city and University being able to work together. There may not be a market for it. I'm not sure its a fit, specifically for the location. Under NO circumstances would I want the games to be played off campus. Like others have mentioned look at Depaul and even Bradley scenarios gone wrong. Northwestern is playing at the All-State arena this season and they are really struggling to get the students to go to any of their home games.
I'd love for this idea to happen but I don't see it happening on a project that big. Valpo could supply the land and maybe the costs could be split. Valpo is working with the city on the future aquatics facility. But generally it is very questionable when municipalities supply funds for arenas. It would be great for the University but questionable decision for the city. I just don't see it being a big enough economic benefit for the city.
I'd just like to receive some sort of official update on our future plans with a time frame.
The Star Plaza's demise can be traced to a) increased land values making the space more valuable for hotel/retail redevelopment and b) a failure to bring in top-tier rock, country and comedy acts like they did for the first 25 years of its existence. There wasn't a lack of profitability -- the facility was paid off long ago.
While not much can be done about A, there are several reasons why B occurred where Valpo is better positioned to fill that void than Merrillville was. More than ever, artist managers are very concerned about cannibalizing ticket sales, since touring is where musicians make nearly all of their money these days. Scheduling a concert 35-40 minutes from a Chicago date is a problem, where scheduling a show 75 minutes away is less so. Also, the proliferation of major Chicago festivals (Lolla, Pitchfork, Lake Shake, etc.) have introduced radius clauses, which prevent an act from playing another show within a certain distance for months before and following a show, taking a bunch of mid-sized and headlining acts off the board for upwards of six months each year. Radius clauses are typically 50 miles, so Merrillville would be blocked from hosting these acts but Valpo wouldn't.
To say nothing of the fact that any facility would not be as reliant on concerts/shows like Star Plaza was, because you'd have VU basketball as the main tenant.
And folks, I'm talking about the hospital property. So basically on campus.
QuoteYeah - their new solution is not a success and may never be one because it is still not within easy walking distance for students.
Based on what evidence? DePaul is averaging 1,000 more fans per game vs. last year despite still being in last place in the Big East, and they still haven't played Marquette at home yet (always their highest-attended conference game). They have 3,000 students living two L stops away and thousands more attending class on their Loop campus daily. (DePaul nearly has as many students living in the South Loop now as they do in Lincoln Park). To say nothing of making it easier for DePaul alums working downtown to attend a game.
ml2 is correct.
The casinos are much better built for concert venues and there are now several of them who consistently have decent people coming. The Star Plaza theater could not compete and I doubt that anything in Valpo could. There's just not enough people to support that many different types of venues. Especially when the others can boast hotels and extra entertainment ie slots, on site.
Quote from: crusader05 on January 29, 2018, 01:11:23 PMml2 is correct. The casinos are much better built for concert venues and there are now several of them who consistently have decent people coming. The Star Plaza theater could not compete and I doubt that anything in Valpo could. There's just not enough people to support that many different types of venues. Especially when the others can boast hotels and extra entertainment ie slots, on site.
For concerts, yes that is mostly true that casinos do a better job there. But casinos are all 21+ so you will get more concerts focused on an older crowd at those sites then you would a traditional concert venue. There is also the kid shows (Sesame Street Live, Paw Patrol Live, whatever else kids like these days) that used to take place at Star Plaza and now no longer have a home in NWI. There are enough shows to go around given that, again, it would be supplemental to the core use of the facility. You don't need to fill up 100 dates a year. Two dozen dates would be great.
Also, as was said before. Beer and wine. Especially if there is a desire to host non university events.
Indiana State's beat writers thoughts on the ARC:
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865692056571904
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/958865599316230144
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865905609355264
Jeezzzzzzz?
Quote from: VU2014 on January 31, 2018, 07:00:09 PM
Indiana State's beat writers thoughts on the ARC:
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865692056571904
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/958865599316230144
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865905609355264
To Golden:
You are fortunate to have several million more donors (myself included) than Valpo has. By the way, my next check will be in the mail on or before April 15th. You're welcome.
Get off your high horse.
The OSHA thing is actually pretty funny.
Guys, rather than poke fun at the writers, let's admit that our arena is nowhere near up to par for a mid-major facility and push Valpo to improve it. And yes, the temporary press tables up on the track are hilariously bad.
There were plenty of chair back seats he could've sat in.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 31, 2018, 07:00:09 PMIndiana State's beat writers thoughts on the ARC: https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865692056571904 https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/958865599316230144 https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/958865905609355264
Golden is a tool. This is the same jerk who penned a polemic against the private schools of the MVC blasting their lack of competitiveness; meanwhile, the school he covers has consistently been an anchor among the public schools in the conference in virtually every sport. Have you heard of not throwing stones from glass houses dude? Take everything he writes with a huge grain of salt.
I'll say this...he has a point, but there's not much anyone can do about it. There really isn't anywhere "good" for the press to sit in the ARC for a variety of reasons. Press Row isn't actually a thing anymore as the school needs seats for the facility manager, marketing coordinator, the official scorer and several assistants, clock operator, shot clock operator, a second official scorer that keeps the official book, ESPN3 crew which features several positions, including PBP and Color. The opposing sports information director and possibly opposing radio unless they get moved up top.
The press have been moved to the track where they can't put permanent seating because...well, it's an indoor track. The tables they put on the risers are the best option despite the fact that the tables are pretty skinny and not anchored down. The challenge for the ARC is there is only one press row with the other side of the court lined with chairback seats. This is unlike any of the other arenas in the Valley that I've seen. Indiana State, Bradley and Illinois State had seating on press row while Northern Iowa had seating under the basket. I hear that Southern Illinois has some interesting seating alignments.
As much as I'd love to bitch and moan about being moved off the court (and plenty of former Valpo beat reporters have shared their displeasure with me), there are bigger fish to fry out there. At the end of the day I get paid to watch college basketball. Just give me a seat, power to plug in my laptop and working internet to send snarky tweets and pictures of koala bears.
Quote from: Pgmado on January 31, 2018, 11:09:38 PM
I'll say this...he has a point, but there's not much anyone can do about it. There really isn't anywhere "good" for the press to sit in the ARC for a variety of reasons. Press Row isn't actually a thing anymore as the school needs seats for... The opposing sports information director and possibly opposing radio unless they get moved up top.
Boot the opposing teams guys upstairs. Problem solved.
Yeah, c'mon guys. Gotta have the seat on press row for the guy who plays the same 9 songs on the sound system every game.
At one time (or maybe when the Horizon Conf tourney was held regularly at the ARC), didn't they set up press tables along the baseline near the concession stands? I'm sure the writers on here can describe other not so primo press accommodations. Heck, Duke's Cameron has some of the worst set ups for media. The TV team is in the rafters and the writers are at tables in front (more in the midst) of the Cameron Crazies. The students can reach out and help write the stories and amusing twitter posts.
Do we need some upgrades for these types of things, yes. Everyone on here get your checkbooks out. Ones with at least 4 0's really help.
The same Indiana State beat writer just excoriated the ARC in his article.
https://twitter.com/tribstarsports/status/959049968060215296
"I said it last year when ISU visited Valparaiso, when the addition of the Crusaders to the MVC was just speculation and not reality, but the Activities and Recreation Center needs some upgrades as it just isn't MVC-worthy.
The stands there look past their prime, from the seats themselves to the shop-worn wooden floors they sit on. There's no seats in one of the end zones and Valpo does it best by putting vendors and tables in there, but it doesn't look right.
It didn't help that the crowd just barely cracked 2,000. The bleachers on the second level on the south side of the ARC are massive and I can see where the atmosphere would be tough there if it was full, but the amenities are spartan even by MVC standards. Hopefully, Valpo invests in the facility for some upgrades."
Quote from: VU2014 on February 01, 2018, 08:37:03 AM
The same Indiana State beat writer just excoriated the ARC in his article.
[tweet]959049968060215296[/tweet]
"I said it last year when ISU visited Valparaiso, when the addition of the Crusaders to the MVC was just speculation and not reality, but the Activities and Recreation Center needs some upgrades as it just isn't MVC-worthy.
The stands there look past their prime, from the seats themselves to the shop-worn wooden floors they sit on. There's no seats in one of the end zones and Valpo does it best by putting vendors and tables in there, but it doesn't look right.
It didn't help that the crowd just barely cracked 2,000. The bleachers on the second level on the south side of the ARC are massive and I can see where the atmosphere would be tough there if it was full, but the amenities are spartan even by MVC standards. Hopefully, Valpo invests in the facility for some upgrades."
I thought the article was pretty good, fair and accurate. The commentary on the play by Indiana State reminded me of observations about Valpo in their losses—too many turnovers, poor free throw shooting, lack of a 3-point threat. As for the comments about the ARC, again he accurately echoes sentiments expressed on this board about the need for upgrades, and he points out that once again the attendance is pathetic, just above 2,000. (The official figure was only 9 more than at the Evansville game.) Finally, there were some nice photos with the article by one of our discussion board members.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 01, 2018, 08:37:03 AMThe same Indiana State beat writer just excoriated the ARC in his article. https://twitter.com/tribstarsports/status/959049968060215296 "I said it last year when ISU visited Valparaiso, when the addition of the Crusaders to the MVC was just speculation and not reality, but the Activities and Recreation Center needs some upgrades as it just isn't MVC-worthy. The stands there look past their prime, from the seats themselves to the shop-worn wooden floors they sit on. There's no seats in one of the end zones and Valpo does it best by putting vendors and tables in there, but it doesn't look right. It didn't help that the crowd just barely cracked 2,000. The bleachers on the second level on the south side of the ARC are massive and I can see where the atmosphere would be tough there if it was full, but the amenities are spartan even by MVC standards. Hopefully, Valpo invests in the facility for some upgrades."
Couldn't agree more with the assessment on the ARC... I've said it before, but there are some easy "relatively" inexpensive fixes that could be put in place to make the ARC better. How about replace all bleachers: make the North, West and South all chair-backs in a horseshoe, put bleachers on the open east end for the Student section and replace the bleachers in the upper level with chair-backs. With wider aisles/seats, you will likely lower the overall capacity, but that will result in a fuller house and a much more comfortable environment to see a game. That will vastly improve game day experience for all and it wont (shouldn't) cost so much that it can't be done in a years time.
I want a brand new ARC as much as others, but that's a 10-20 year project it seems. No reason to not improve what you can now while you plan for the future.
I didn't see anything untrue in his article. When the standard back-handed compliment for your facility is that it is "cozy like a high school gym" that's a sign that it's not up to current D-1 standards. At some point, you need to quit getting bent out of shape at the people who point this out as if they're some sort of outliers and do something about it.
Quote from: vuny98 on February 01, 2018, 09:41:35 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 01, 2018, 08:37:03 AMThe same Indiana State beat writer just excoriated the ARC in his article. https://twitter.com/tribstarsports/status/959049968060215296 "I said it last year when ISU visited Valparaiso, when the addition of the Crusaders to the MVC was just speculation and not reality, but the Activities and Recreation Center needs some upgrades as it just isn't MVC-worthy. The stands there look past their prime, from the seats themselves to the shop-worn wooden floors they sit on. There's no seats in one of the end zones and Valpo does it best by putting vendors and tables in there, but it doesn't look right. It didn't help that the crowd just barely cracked 2,000. The bleachers on the second level on the south side of the ARC are massive and I can see where the atmosphere would be tough there if it was full, but the amenities are spartan even by MVC standards. Hopefully, Valpo invests in the facility for some upgrades."
Couldn't agree more with the assessment on the ARC... I've said it before, but there are some easy "relatively" inexpensive fixes that could be put in place to make the ARC better. How about replace all bleachers: make the North, West and South all chair-backs in a horseshoe, put bleachers on the open east end for the Student section and replace the bleachers in the upper level with chair-backs. With wider aisles/seats, you will likely lower the overall capacity, but that will result in a fuller house and a much more comfortable environment to see a game. That will vastly improve game day experience for all and it wont (shouldn't) cost so much that it can't be done in a years time.
I want a brand new ARC as much as others, but that's a 10-20 year project it seems. No reason to not improve what you can now while you plan for the future.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 01, 2018, 09:42:59 AM
I didn't see anything untrue in his article. When the standard back-handed compliment for your facility is that it is "cozy like a high school gym" that's a sign that it's not up to current D-1 standards. At some point, you need to quit getting bent out of shape at the people who point this out as if they're some sort of outliers and do something about it.
I don't disagree with anything but I'm just hoping the higher-ups take notice... *action*
Gee, the ARC needs major upgrades. No kidding. We've only been talking about this ad nauseam for what - the past 10 years now? We don't need some Tier 4 state school yokel from Terre Haute, Indiana with a nice facility/terrible basketball program dichotomy lecturing us about it.
Effective communication = the right message, delivered at the right time, by the right person. This guy ain't it.
But OTOH, the more external criticism the ARC gets, perhaps that will move the needle more with the Valpo administration than obviously we've been able to do in those 10 years.
I doubt President Heckler and most of the Board members have ever seen this message board or even care.
If President Heckler ever did see it this would be his reaction: (https://i.giphy.com/media/fDO2Nk0ImzvvW/giphy.webp)
Quote from: wh on February 01, 2018, 11:17:29 AM
Gee, the ARC needs major upgrades. No kidding. We've only been talking about this ad nauseam for what - the past 10 years now? We don't need some Tier 4 state school yokel from Terre Haute, Indiana with a nice facility/terrible basketball program dichotomy lecturing us about it.
Effective communication = the right message, delivered at the right time, by the right person. This guy ain't it.
Quote from: EddieCabot on February 01, 2018, 12:12:18 PM
Quote from: wh on February 01, 2018, 11:17:29 AM
Gee, the ARC needs major upgrades. No kidding. We've only been talking about this ad nauseam for what - the past 10 years now? We don't need some Tier 4 state school yokel from Terre Haute, Indiana with a nice facility/terrible basketball program dichotomy lecturing us about it.
Effective communication = the right message, delivered at the right time, by the right person. This guy ain't it.
Exactly.
(//url="https://ibb.co/gFGkYm"%5D%5Bimg%20alt=arc"%20border="0%5Dhttps://preview.ibb.co/fifCDm/arc.jpg)[/url]][/img]
QuoteBut OTOH, the more external criticism the ARC gets, perhaps that will move the needle more with the Valpo administration than obviously we've been able to do in those 10 years.
Exactly this. The lack of more than a handful of full-time visiting media in the HL or Mid-Con made it very easy to paper over this issue as the VU narrative of "homey home-court advantage" wasn't really challenged aside from a couple of offhand comments here and there when VU hosted the HL tourney.
By contrast *every* team in the Valley has their own media contingent. All of them are used to working in - and the teams on their beat playing in - much nicer facilities across the board. To expect them to pipe down to spare VU's feelings seems unreasonable, when again, VU has given ten years of lip service on this issue but taken no discernible action. Fix it so people can shut up about it, or learn to deal with the (accurate) criticism.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on February 01, 2018, 01:01:00 PM
QuoteBut OTOH, the more external criticism the ARC gets, perhaps that will move the needle more with the Valpo administration than obviously we've been able to do in those 10 years.
Exactly this. The lack of more than a handful of full-time visiting media in the HL or Mid-Con made it very easy to paper over this issue as the VU narrative of "homey home-court advantage" wasn't really challenged aside from a couple of offhand comments here and there when VU hosted the HL tourney.
By contrast *every* team in the Valley has their own media contingent. All of them are used to working in - and the teams on their beat playing in - much nicer facilities across the board. To expect them to pipe down to spare VU's feelings seems unreasonable, when again, VU has given ten years of lip service on this issue but taken no discernible action. Fix it so people can shut up about it, or learn to deal with the (accurate) criticism.
Hmm, I never stopped to consider that this guy could be a useful idiot.
I doubt the University higher-ups will cave to any sort of public pressure. Maybe if a large enough portion of the alumni base supplied pressure but even then I don't think they'd take notice until wealth donors want to see action taken
Quote from: VU2014 on February 01, 2018, 03:17:39 PM
I doubt the University higher-ups will cave to any sort of public pressure. Maybe if a large enough portion of the alumni base supplied pressure but even then I don't think they'd take notice until wealth donors want to see action taken
An interesting point. Given the nature of Valpo as a high end academic institution, I doubt a majority of alumni would ever be in favor of building a new ARC versus a new science building or a new library. Our alumni base (about 50,000) finds basketball success interesting but not a requirement to support the value of their degree. I think this is short sited but is a fact nonetheless.
Academics always comes first as it should but I don't think the University realizes how important the basketball teams is or beneficial it could be. My college buddies and I make a couple trips to the ARC a year. It's not too far of a trip for me but I have friends that fly into Chicago to hang out and catch a game. We feel a sense of connection to our alma mater through the Basketball team. Alums generally aren't flying in for anything else other then Homecoming or maybe a huge Football game like the Butler game. At least this is my experience.
The Basketball Team is an asset to this University and it's well worth the investment because of the intangible benefits it brings. This is a little off topic but I really want to see the Athletic Department get the student body more engaged and invested in the Basketball program. Build that strong connection to the basketball team while they are on campus.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 09:29:51 AM
Academics always comes first as it should but I don't think the University realizes how important the basketball teams is or beneficial it could be. My college buddies and I make a couple trips to the ARC a year. It's not too far of a trip for me but I have friends that fly into Chicago to hang out and catch a game. We feel a sense of connection to our alma mater through the Basketball team. Alums generally aren't flying in for anything else other then Homecoming or maybe a huge Football game like the Butler game. At least this is my experience.
The Basketball Team is an asset to this University and it's well worth the investment because of the intangible benefits it brings. This is a little off topic but I really want to see the Athletic Department get the student body more engaged and invested in the Basketball program. Build that strong connection to the basketball team while they are on campus.
Well said. Couldn't agree more.
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 09:39:27 AMQuote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 09:29:51 AMAcademics always comes first as it should but I don't think the University realizes how important the basketball teams is or beneficial it could be. My college buddies and I make a couple trips to the ARC a year. It's not too far of a trip for me but I have friends that fly into Chicago to hang out and catch a game. We feel a sense of connection to our alma mater through the Basketball team. Alums generally aren't flying in for anything else other then Homecoming or maybe a huge Football game like the Butler game. At least this is my experience. The Basketball Team is an asset to this University and it's well worth the investment because of the intangible benefits it brings. This is a little off topic but I really want to see the Athletic Department get the student body more engaged and invested in the Basketball program. Build that strong connection to the basketball team while they are on campus.
Well said. Couldn't agree more.
And with more and more games on ESPN in the MVC, plus our history of success, it is the best marketing tool possible for a small school like Valpo. Only a matter of time as the ARC continues to age that this marketing tool starts to work against us and people see the less than modern facilities at the ARC. It's not a far leap for potential students to watch a game on TV and think "well their arena is kind of a dump, I bet the rest of the school is like that too". It's what gets shown to the national stage more than anything and we are not putting our best foot forward.
On my way to the Concordia vs Angola high school game last night, I was invited by a friend to see the new MIT Center at Trine University. We have talked on this board about Trine building an ice arena and starting a hockey program, so I wanted to see how this sleepy D3 university had grown to 3,400 undergrad and 5,000 total students while building a new 5,000 seat football stadium, 3500 seat basketball center and an ice arena all in the last 7 years. I had not been on campus since coaching at Indiana Tech and my how things have changed. I know that these types of facilities would not meet VU's needs, but for a similar sized university with a much smaller endowment to sink this kind of money into athletic facilities it does make me wonder why we have invested so little in these areas. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely proud of VU's Lutheran heritage, academic achievements and reputation. I believe that academics should take priority over athletics, but I also believe that our athletic programs, in particular our Men's basketball program, has become our main marketing tool and the only reason why many people know the name of Valpo.
MTI Center basketball, bowling and E-sports facility (http://www.trinethunder.com/facilities/athletic-evets-center)
Trine Thunder Ice Arena (http://www.trinethunder.com/facilities/thunder-ice-arena)
Zollner Athletic Stadium for Football, Soccer and Lacrosse (http://www.trinethunder.com/facilities/zollnerstadium)
Zollner Golf Course (http://www.trinethunder.com/facilities/zollnergc) Located on campus and known as one of Northeast Indiana's premier golf courses, site of the 2012 NCAA Women′s Golf National Championships.
My picture of the MTI Center from yesterday afternoon.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/S-FVup4TrEezTH0bS4lL32UuruwdqyUrWi6bXWNa-YUsSJRPDIVkPa57_gCY2OUd2wEamxWds_X0uB3pGmpUF-0lIOgzoRZlP1x16FkF-S9E0-QIaSkrbC4E2ts1uuw1gG5yOwBK6XjkXUxW647xGnTgL77vx7WH-S9_2l4e8wy0f7C7i71XGPf9cvpfcMNFk_Db1MYYDdg9TFIzzUKDedhnq4qsiV07Cn2cwL9ltGr-8wv0LiLq56xElVTwJt1D8tpzqJCF8mESqbTleu1n-Wqcl11BCXTWN2MPbRjW9MMnzKW45gc590RheJ4ZbQau7dJ03k73y-RP-KTIfyFzBBmRYSSgRfM796BVdg1N9VmIGDGPi-xuC0tUidEp2LBUG_-l6z37OQx7GmC-c4htvrawvU8FsB7ww1SSKOt63yiXnXOIqSwBKmG71-KccgGRQF4P0fGa3vKXkofeGe2Jl_cLikH4I0lisbHsr32WjGB5IZ4qrdaw0RRM93sWfrHFdWBu0nykmp-8hsdlH7DfB3RggiCvSSVyZIhNxExdk7ev6dGhkBfpDLe4dhoQxWTcLiJb9UlJtG2a7Gc5Q6eKCIshFGH6QAl-xT-p0j8=w1244-h933-no)
Quote from: vuny98 on February 02, 2018, 10:15:39 AM
And with more and more games on ESPN in the MVC, plus our history of success, it is the best marketing tool possible for a small school like Valpo. Only a matter of time as the ARC continues to age that this marketing tool starts to work against us and people see the less than modern facilities at the ARC. It's not a far leap for potential students to watch a game on TV and think "well their arena is kind of a dump, I bet the rest of the school is like that too". It's what gets shown to the national stage more than anything and we are not putting our best foot forward.
Not only that but it's an eye sore see student section empty. I can not stress enough how important it is to get the students to rally around the team. Instead of giving away free towels and foam fingers build the culture where it become an expectation to show up in the student section. Make it an event. Something needs to happen. Get a bus at every dorm to drop kids off at the ARC if need be. Build traditions and a culture.
That is a really nice little arena. It kind of reminds me of the Knapp Center and O'rena in one without the eye sore black court. I love how they have the big window to let in the natural light.
If we ever renovated the ARC it would be cool to have some natural light and window shine into the arena. What would be really cool is having one of the "endzones" walls of the arena pay homage to the Chapel of Resurrection with similar stain glass dimension for the wall letting in the natural light. It would look iconic and unique to just Valparaiso University if done correctly.
Is it just me or would that look really cool? That would definitely be impressive and would sell recruits.
(http://www.mjphotos.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/The-Chapel-HDR.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/20/19/a6201954d27949387bc24e51ccd5d5bb.jpg)
The steps could be like the bleachers and over overlooking the bleachers would be stained glass windows like the chapels. That would be really cool.
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/512f74e8e4b012cdc28b64ef/t/538d153de4b0c07f827134ef/1401754943387/ceremony-chapel-of-resurrection.jpg)
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 10:56:52 AMIf we ever renovated the ARC it would be cool to have some natural light and window shine into the arena. What would be really cool is we could have one the "endzones" of the arena walls pay homage to the Chapel of Resurrection how a similar stain glass dimension for the wall letting in the natural light. It would also look iconic and unique to just Valparaiso University if done correctly.
Is it just me or would that look really cool? That would definitely be impressive and would sell recruits.
Glass on the end of an arena is never a good idea.
Think volleyball in the evening in September. Or a 3:00 basketball tip in January. Especially an arena that sits east/west.
The idea is cool, but not practical.
I'd move the Volleyball games to the Hilltop gym if I were in charge. Also I'd imagine the walls would be far enough and high enough back that a ball wouldn't hit it. If we had a complete reno we could flip the direction of the court maybe.
Quote from: FWalum on February 02, 2018, 10:26:19 AM
On my way to the Concordia vs Angola high school game last night, I was invited by a friend to see the new MIT Center at Trine University. We have talked on this board about Trine building an ice arena and starting a hockey program, so I wanted to see how this sleepy D3 university had grown to 3,400 undergrad and 5,000 total students while building a new 5,000 seat football stadium, 3500 seat basketball center and an ice arena all in the last 7 years. I had not been on campus since coaching at Indiana Tech and my how things have changed. I know that these types of facilities would not meet VU's needs, but for a similar sized university with a much smaller endowment to sink this kind of money into athletic facilities it does make me wonder why we have invested so little in these areas. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely proud of VU's Lutheran heritage, academic achievements and reputation. I believe that academics should take priority over athletics, but I also believe that our athletic programs, in particular our Men's basketball program, has become our main marketing tool and the only reason why many people know the name of Valpo.
MTI Center basketball, bowling and E-sports facility (http://www.trinethunder.com/facilities/athletic-evets-center)
Trine Thunder Ice Arena (http://www.trinethunder.com/facilities/thunder-ice-arena)
Zollner Athletic Stadium for Football, Soccer and Lacrosse (http://www.trinethunder.com/facilities/zollnerstadium)
Zollner Golf Course (http://www.trinethunder.com/facilities/zollnergc) Located on campus and known as one of Northeast Indiana's premier golf courses, site of the 2012 NCAA Women′s Golf National Championships.
The posted pic did not come across on my iMac, but in looking through the Trine facility links, I, like you FW, was blown away by what was accomplished in a short 7 years. The BB arena is scaled for 3,500, but more importantly, it is CONFIGURED as an arena (note the press box and alumni suite overlooking the court), not a gym. A Valpo version would probably just need added seating along the sidelines to bring it up to 5K-6K. The lower bowl is all retractable seating so it still provides 3 courts transverse to the game court. I won't even go into the FB stadium and it's amenities (seating 5,000) or the 700 seat ice arena with more amenities than just an ice surface and locker room. They really invested more than $$$. They invested great forward thinking and strategic planning into the designs. Even if I was not an athlete, as a HS student visiting the campus and taking a campus tour, my proabable reaction would be -- "wow, first class stuff that looks like a real university; so, this whole place must be good."
It's a great outward-facing representation of the university. All this with an endowment of ........ wait for this..........$25 million (source: Wikipedia: about 10.6% of Valpo's) and a tuition of #31K vs. Valpo's $36,280. As FW noted, the enrollment is approximately equal. They also sponsor 28 varsity sports for men and women -- we do 19. It's worth spending the time going to the links and reading the descriptions.
ONE OTHER IMPORTANT NOTE TO ADD: This was first embarked upon 7 years ago and that was at the point where our first great recession of the century was still a nightmare. Doing this then was a BIG gamble, but they had the forethought and courage to make it work.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
I'd move the Volleyball games to the Hilltop gym if I were in charge. Also I'd imagine the walls would be far enough and high enough back that a ball wouldn't hit it. If we had a complete reno we could flip the direction of the court maybe.
This already has been addressed -- the ceiling does not meet NCAA height requirements.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
I'd move the Volleyball games to the Hilltop gym if I were in charge. Also I'd imagine the walls would be far enough and high enough back that a ball wouldn't hit it. If we had a complete reno we could flip the direction of the court maybe.
This already has been addressed -- the ceiling does not meet NCAA height requirements.
I thought the same thing but someone mentioned they can play games in there.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 12:11:59 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
I'd move the Volleyball games to the Hilltop gym if I were in charge. Also I'd imagine the walls would be far enough and high enough back that a ball wouldn't hit it. If we had a complete reno we could flip the direction of the court maybe.
This already has been addressed -- the ceiling does not meet NCAA height requirements.
I thought the same thing but someone mentioned they can play games in there.
I was told by a staff member that it could be done. Maybe he was wrong.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 11:37:18 AMIt's a great outward-facing representation of the university. All this with an endowment of ........ wait for this..........$25 million (source: Wikipedia: about 10.6% of Valpo's) and a tuition of #31K vs. Valpo's $36,280. As FW noted, the enrollment is approximately equal. They also sponsor 28 varsity sports for men and women -- we do 19. It's worth spending the time going to the links and reading the descriptions.
This difference in endowment really shows in net tuition costs to students. All based on US News rankings from last year, Trine's tuition is 31,540 with an average financial aid package of 5,433 for a net cost of 26,107. At the same time Valpo's tuition is 38,760 with an average financial aid package of 26,300 for a net cost of 12,460.
Add in the fact that they are ranked No. 23 in the Midwest versus #4 for Valpo and that their engineer school is ranked #103 versus Valpo's #14 and the fact that no one has ever heard of Trine and I am not sure why the memory of a shiny new arena would cause a student to pick such a place. They do have really nice athletic facilities as well as a very precarious financial position.
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 01:44:55 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 12:11:59 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2018, 11:16:36 AM
I'd move the Volleyball games to the Hilltop gym if I were in charge. Also I'd imagine the walls would be far enough and high enough back that a ball wouldn't hit it. If we had a complete reno we could flip the direction of the court maybe.
This already has been addressed -- the ceiling does not meet NCAA height requirements.
I thought the same thing but someone mentioned they can play games in there.
I was told by a staff member that it could be done. Maybe he was wrong.
From the 2017 NCAA Volleyball Rule Book.
1.1.2 Overhead Clearance
1.1.2.1 The playing space includes the playing area and the space above it. The recommended clearance over the playing area is 12.4 meters (41 feet), measured from the playing surface. For facilities constructed after 2006, the space above the playing area must be free of obstruction to a minimum height of 7.62 meters (25 feet) measured from the playing surface.So it appears that 41' is recommended, but 25' is required????
So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop? As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg
Sure looks like it could be 25'.
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 01:53:28 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 11:37:18 AMIt's a great outward-facing representation of the university. All this with an endowment of ........ wait for this..........$25 million (source: Wikipedia: about 10.6% of Valpo's) and a tuition of #31K vs. Valpo's $36,280. As FW noted, the enrollment is approximately equal. They also sponsor 28 varsity sports for men and women -- we do 19. It's worth spending the time going to the links and reading the descriptions.
This difference in endowment really shows in net tuition costs to students. All based on US News rankings from last year, Trine's tuition is 31,540 with an average financial aid package of 5,433 for a net cost of 26,107. At the same time Valpo's tuition is 38,760 with an average financial aid package of 26,300 for a net cost of 12,460.
Add in the fact that they are ranked No. 23 in the Midwest versus #4 for Valpo and that their engineer school is ranked #103 versus Valpo's #14 and the fact that no one has ever heard of Trine and I am not sure why the memory of a shiny new arena would cause a student to pick such a place. They do have really nice athletic facilities as well as a very precarious financial position.
Good digging on the net tuition, 72.
Here is a 2016 article perhaps answering your question above (bold is my emphasis):
Trine Tops Enrollment Record Again
Posted: Aug 15, 2016 10:17 AM CDT
Updated: Aug 15, 2016 10:17 AM CDT
By Andy Ober, Assistant Managing EditorCONNECT
Trine's fall semester begins August. 22.
Trine's fall semester begins August. 22.
ANGOLA -
Trine University in Angola says enrollment has hit an all-time high for the fourth straight year. The school says growing business, graduate and international student populations led to the record total.
In all, Trine is expecting about 4,800 students to be enrolled at its main campus, eight education centers and Peoria, Arizona campus. That is a 7 percent increase over last year. The majority of those students, about 3,650, will be enrolled at the main campus.
Trine is expecting 834 international students this fall, which is more than double last year's total of 365. The school says the number of graduate students is expected to jump to 592 from 338 in the fall of 2015. The Ketner School of Business is expecting 105 new students, up from 74 last year. That marks the largest class of new students in its history.
The northeast Indiana school is also moving forward with $4.5 million plans for the Thunder Ice Arena, which will house its new men's and women's hockey teams. In addition to the ice rink, it will include men's and women's locker rooms, concessions, a pro shop and other amenities. The university is also building a nearly 75,000 square-foot, 3,000-seat athletic and event center, which will host Trine men's and women's basketball games. That project is pegged at $11.5 million.
Trine's fall semester begins August. 22.[/font]
Yes, Valpo is higher rated, but I don't think that is the main point. They obviously have a target admissions demographic (and admission standards I'm sure) that is different from ours, but aided by aggressive expansion of facilities (investing $16 million) and programs, they have been able to make themselves more attractive to that demographic and break admission records 4 years in a row. For instance, going back to 2011 they enrolled only 2,200 students but that was a 5.2% increase over 2010. Meanwhile, Valpo, which quite a while ago announced a goal of increasing to 6,000 students, has not quite gotten there yet. Given the two different environments, Trine seems to know how to achieve their goals a bit better.
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop? As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg
Maybe. But why? The ARC is fine for volleyball. There are no fall conflicts. And if you think complaining about the ARC's basketball environment by MVC teams is an issue, can you imagine the visiting teams' outcries if volleyball was pushed into Hilltop. It also might be the basis for internal squabbling about how VB was "demoted."
I had never heard of Trine before today. But this is what a PROACTIVE rather than REACTIVE athletic administration gets you. Well done for them.
To answer a question earlier, Board members, past and present, are aware of this little ole message board. It's been around for quite awhile. It, however, is only one data point. It has demonstrated good engagement of alumni and has had rational discussions and information from time to time. (This facilities argument has ebbed and flowed for what seems to be forever). Nonetheless, there seems to sometimes be a perception that this Board knows more (or should have more sway) about sports, marketing, facilities and what the Universities goals and objectives should be than those who are part of the University and Sports Administrations. There are very knowledgeable people on that Board and in the ARC, and in particular the committees that have sports and marketing as a priority are well-versed in these areas. We're a small enough University that if you'd like to have one-on-one conversations or want to a send a letter, you should do so. Use the appropriate forums for those discussions. This is just a message board. For years, I sent letters to the administration lobbying for us to move out of the Mid-Con. One Board member over the years has been one of the most vocal and financially supportive basketball fans there is. If anyone knows what is needed for the ARC, it's the administration and Board. Would it be helpful to be more transparent with what the plans are and more importantly the timetables, absolutely. Is there a master plan for facilities--yes. https://www.valpo.edu/masterplan/assets/docs/VU%20MP%20Exec%20Summary_final.pdf
As I mentioned a couple days ago, and to paraphrase--talk is cheap; checks with 4 or more 0's talk louder.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop? As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg
Maybe. But why? The ARC is fine for volleyball. There are no fall conflicts. And if you think complaining about the ARC's basketball environment by MVC teams is an issue, can you imagine the visiting teams' outcries if volleyball was pushed into Hilltop. It also might be the basis for internal squabbling about how VB was "demoted."
No reason other then those September games where is is 90 outside and incredibly hot and humid (causing moisture on the floor) and dangerous. Hilltop is now air conditioned with adequate seating for VB.
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 03:31:41 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop? As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg
Maybe. But why? The ARC is fine for volleyball. There are no fall conflicts. And if you think complaining about the ARC's basketball environment by MVC teams is an issue, can you imagine the visiting teams' outcries if volleyball was pushed into Hilltop. It also might be the basis for internal squabbling about how VB was "demoted."
No reason other then those September games where is is 90 outside and incredibly hot and humid (causing moisture on the floor) and dangerous. Hilltop is now air conditioned with adequate seating for VB.
Good point. But I would view that as a last minute adaptation to deal with an atypical playing condition, don'tcha think?
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 03:49:01 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 03:31:41 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 02:31:38 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 02, 2018, 02:15:05 PM
So I wonder what the clearance is at Hilltop? As the 25' minimum is for facilities constructed after 2006 perhaps Hilltop would get a waiver given its age.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6MK1PXIAAC4CD.jpg
Maybe. But why? The ARC is fine for volleyball. There are no fall conflicts. And if you think complaining about the ARC's basketball environment by MVC teams is an issue, can you imagine the visiting teams' outcries if volleyball was pushed into Hilltop. It also might be the basis for internal squabbling about how VB was "demoted."
No reason other then those September games where is is 90 outside and incredibly hot and humid (causing moisture on the floor) and dangerous. Hilltop is now air conditioned with adequate seating for VB.
Good point. But I would view that as a last minute adaptation to deal with an atypical playing condition, don'tcha think?
For sure. Otherwise, as you suggested, VB would think they were being treated as second class citizens.
Trine University used to be called Tri-State University...
1884
Trine founded as Tri-State Normal College by the residents of Angola, Ind., and the Commerce Building — now known as Taylor Hall — is constructed as the College's first facility.
2002
Tri-State accepted as a new member in the Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association (MIAA); the University celebrated its 100th anniversary of excellence in engineering; Witmer Clubhouse renovated and expanded; and the University approved as a graduate degree-granting institution.
2004
Tri-State attained NCAA Division III provisional membership; opened the $650,000 Ketner Sports Complex; expanded the University bookstore; and opened Trine Villas, some of the finest student residence facilities of their kind.
2005
The University graduated its first class of Master of Science in Engineering Technology students, opened Ingledue Villas, and broke ground on the $15.5 million Rick L. and Vicki L. James University Center and Center for Technology and Online Resources.
2008
Tri-State renamed Trine University, in honor of trustees Drs. Ralph and Sheri Trine, to better define its mission and direction; construction began on Golf Course Village, four student apartment buildings on Zollner Golf Course.
2009
Trine opened the Athletic and Recreation Center (ARC); began the transformation of Shive Field into the Fred Zollner Athletic Stadium; and began renovations on the T. Furth Center for Performing Arts.
2010
Trine opened Fred Zollner Stadium;
oh, and there's this about Tri-State
Tri-State First meeting with VU 1926-27 Last meeting with VU 1984-85 VU lifetime record: 4-0; Most recently.... Jan. 5, 1985 Valpo Win 57-56
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 02, 2018, 03:08:16 PM
I had never heard of Trine before today. But this is what a PROACTIVE rather than REACTIVE athletic administration gets you. Well done for them.
But it is not the athletic administration. Trine wants to grow and extend their brand. This kind of proactive approach has to come straight from the top. The top levels of Trine administration clearly have made a commitment to grow
USING their athletic department, facilitiues and programs as way to embellish their brand to their targeted demographic and expand enrollment, which, as 72 pointed out in his net tuition figures earlier, means that tuition income (not including R&B and fees) results in much improved cash flow and that further improves as they grow the student body annually by 5%-7%. At a net tuition cost (per US News) of $26,107 X 400 new students, that brings in an additional $10,442,800. If they add 400 each year, they add $10M each year to the previous year's income instead of maintaining a fairly flat income curve that depends on tuition increases to absorb cost increases.
I think it is natural that the people on this board have a bias for sports facilities over non-athletic construction. Unlike many message boards we feature well-reasoned comments from Valpo84, VU72, and dozens more. They tout the overall vision and cite the realities of university issues. I concur in many respects.
My chief concern is enrollment. The campus has built core facilities like the library and the union on a very large scale designed for 6,000 students. The facilities are not an end in themselves. They are a means to the goal. The masterplan linked to Valpo84's post cites "6,000 students within a decade". Printed in 2013?
Which facilities have the strongest impact on enrollment? We all perceive that differently. Could a stronger focus on athletic facilities help? Perhaps not. Enrollment is the key issue. I am sure there is a strategy. I need to accept the fact the VU current vision and strategy may very well be targeting students who don't care about hoops. They may be fine with staging games without fans. This new cohort of students may even not care about shared experiences. It is a different university than the one I attended and loved. I have to weigh my allegiance to the new vision.
Perceptive, Moe. And you maybe spot on.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 02, 2018, 04:40:49 PM
Enrollment is the key issue. I am sure there is a strategy. I need to accept the fact the VU current vision and strategy may very well be targeting students who don't care about hoops. They may be fine with staging games without fans. This new cohort of students may even not care about shared experiences. It is a different university than the one I attended and loved. I have to weigh my allegiance to the new vision.
But, if we are going after the type of students you characterize then we are in deep doo-doo. And if that is the case, why the hell did we move to D-I in the first place and then jump to the MVC? None of the students you identify would even know what an ESPN crawler is or that there is a segment of college basketball called mid-major, or, if they did, even care. What a sterile vision into the future.
The closing of the law school is going to cause, I believe, some fairly major headaches for VU and impact the board's decisions on facilities, at least in the near (2-5 year) term.
The law school is on the perimeter of campus. It is not in an attractive area. It does not feel particularly safe to me. VU could get away with this location for the law school since, let's face it, law students were never considered a major (or even minor) part of campus and the administration figured the law students would be content with a building in the hinterlands.
Now the building has to be repurposed. This will cost some fairly major bucks. And who do you put there? Nursing? Business? Those are two possible candidates, but the out-of-the-way location will be a drag on attracting kids who want to pursue majors in those two fields. Who wants to spend most of their time cut off from the rest of campus? To make the building "feel" like a part of campus, VU would have to commit to putting in another academic building nearby, and fill up the several empty lots in the area. Several older homes and other residential buildings which may or may not be owned by VU would have to go -- they are, kindly speaking now, unattractive. I doubt any of this will happen.
This is a vexing problem for the administration. Any option they choose will cost significant dollars and will take away from other building needs. The board has signaled that remodeling dorms (rather than replacing them, which I would much prefer and which to me is a much wiser long-term decision) is the main priority over the next 2-4 years. After that the second new science building will go up. This has to be located right next to the new science building #1 for obvious reasons.
The fieldhouse needs to get built and it will, although I think it will be in stages. (The absence of a fieldhouse is similar now to the absence of a proper art/music facility in the 1980s and the lack of a decent library and union in the 1990s -- it is a drag on enrollment.) This is unfortunate but the most likely outcome. And getting to the first stage may take several more years. As for the ARC, I very much doubt anything major will be done unless a donor steps forward with a specific gift, which is unlikely. That is the conclusion that others on this board reached several years ago, and with the problems created by the closing of the law school, this end game seems ever more certain than before.
Paul
I'm sorry. This is Valparaiso. Not saying we don't have problems. But if there's any part of this town you don't feel safe in, I don't know what to tell you.
Quote from: 78crusader on February 02, 2018, 05:19:13 PM
The closing of the law school is going to cause, I believe, some fairly major headaches for VU and impact the board's decisions on facilities, at least in the near (2-5 year) term.
The law school is on the perimeter of campus. It is not in an attractive area. It does not feel particularly safe to me. VU could get away with this location for the law school since, let's face it, law students were never considered a major (or even minor) part of campus and the administration figured the law students would be content with a building in the hinterlands.
Now the building has to be repurposed. This will cost some fairly major bucks. And who do you put there? Nursing? Business? Those are two possible candidates, but the out-of-the-way location will be a drag on attracting kids who want to pursue majors in those two fields. Who wants to spend most of their time cut off from the rest of campus? To make the building "feel" like a part of campus, VU would have to commit to putting in another academic building nearby, and fill up the several empty lots in the area. Several older homes and other residential buildings which may or may not be owned by VU would have to go -- they are, kindly speaking now, unattractive. I doubt any of this will happen.
This is a vexing problem for the administration. Any option they choose will cost significant dollars and will take away from other building needs. The board has signaled that remodeling dorms (rather than replacing them, which I would much prefer and which to me is a much wiser long-term decision) is the main priority over the next 2-4 years. After that the second new science building will go up. This has to be located right next to the new science building #1 for obvious reasons.
The fieldhouse needs to get built and it will, although I think it will be in stages. (The absence of a fieldhouse is similar now to the absence of a proper art/music facility in the 1980s and the lack of a decent library and union in the 1990s -- it is a drag on enrollment.) This is unfortunate but the most likely outcome. And getting to the first stage may take several more years. As for the ARC, I very much doubt anything major will be done unless a donor steps forward with a specific gift, which is unlikely. That is the conclusion that others on this board reached several years ago, and with the problems created by the closing of the law school, this end game seems ever more certain than before.
Paul
Why do you sign your name? Just curious.
Most people who know of Valparaiso U. have no idea that the Law School is out...and for that matter they don't care. It is a non-issue as far as I am concerned. As for the ARC, the renovations will come when a big time giver(s) is found, just like the way the Trine facilities were built.
Quote from: valpo64 on February 02, 2018, 08:57:50 PM
Most people who know of Valparaiso U. have no idea that the Law School is out...and for that matter they don't care. It is a non-issue as far as I am concerned. As for the ARC, the renovations will come when a big time giver(s) is found, just like the way the Trine facilities were built.
Maybe that is true but I challenge the big time giver idea. I believe that Tri-State/Trine freaking did it by saying "what the hell, go for it" and just opened the checkbook, And in less than 10 years doubled their enrollment while significantly improving their campus and brand. And they are D-III!!!!
And it appears that part of their strategy was to open satellite campuses. That is the same strategy that Concordia Wisconsin used to get their enrollment over 5000.
Trine's investments in facilities are clearly tied to an enrollment strategy that is possible for them as a D3 but not for Valpo as a D1.
As a D3 Trine has limited travel costs and zero athletic scholarship costs. They finance the facilities with debt to attract aspiring student-athletes to bolster their enrollment. This is why they sponsor so many sports (21 NCAA sanctioned teams, plus two club hockey teams, men's bowling, synchronized skating and e-sports). And have such large rosters (26 listed for men's basketball). Trine's total NCAA expenses are just over 3 million dollars for 684 athletes (compared to 14 million for Valpo with more than 100 fewer athletes). At the average cost to attend Trine that another poster found, they can finance their entire athletic department with the tuition from around 125 student-athletes (Valpo would need closer to 640). Every student-athlete they can attract above that is helping the school's bottom line, including servicing the debt on their nice new facilities that helped attract the students in the first place.
It's an interesting and apparently successful model (although their officially listed undergrad enrollment is just 1,700 or about half of Valpo's). But it is not really replicable at the D1 level because of the significantly higher costs to field teams via athletic scholarships, increased travel, increased coaching costs. etc
Sorry for the long post - but the short version is that the line from new athletic facilities to new revenue is much more direct for a school like Trine than it is for Valpo.
As for 78's concern about re-purposing the law school, the Master Plan calls for relocating the Business and Nursing schools near the Union. There is no way they would locate either on Old campus. The University owns a LOT of land near or on old campus. As I mentioned in a much earlier post, one idea which I heard from one of the Deans is to develop a retirement community from Valpo alums and others in this space. This could be done in partnership with a private developer, cost the University little and create a loyal community to support the University in many ways.
As for facilities, I thought y'all would enjoy this video I found on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUg2I_W4SqY
Why won't nursing or business transition into the soon to be vacant law school facilities? I think the 30 year master plan assumed the existence of the law school. But now it is off the table. What else might go in there?
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 03, 2018, 10:37:52 AM
Why won't nursing or business transition into the soon to be vacant law school facilities? I think the 30 year master plan assumed the existence of the law school. But now it is off the table. What else might go in there?
Just because students walked from Wehrenberg and Alumni to Old Campus when we were students doesn't mean they would embrace the idea today! The term "walking campus" surely doesn't mean over a mile one way? The concept has always been to get everything to new campus. Why would they reverse the pattern now?
A little known fact is that Trine grads have one of the highest income per grad ratios in the Country. These vwery well of people have contributed well when it comes to projects at the School. In addition special Corporate gifts have benefited their athletic program, such as the Zollner Corp covering their golf course , football stadium improvements, among others. Monies for these projects have been raised behind the scenes for the most part. While VU has prettry well kept up with our campus' academic and physical facilities and programs, I believe the step will be in the area of inter-collegiate atrhletic facilites. Sometimes these type of gifts have originated behind the scenes and then suddnely appear such as the new track, basketball wing and the b-ball endowment. With the conference affiliation change many behind the scenes changes(Video studio/equipment, etc) had to be implimented. I think that these improvements had to be done quickly as we had to jump at the chance to join the MVC on almost a now or never basis. We were not in a position to have fund rasising efforts begin prior to joining the MVC as far as facilitiesd were concerned. I am confident that MLaB and others are keenly aware of this need. Who knows, maybe one of these days that big special gift will get the program started. While many of us get impatient waiting, remember....."patience is a virtue" and "sometimes the truth hurts." GO VALPO!
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 02, 2018, 03:08:16 PM
I had never heard of Trine before today. But this is what a PROACTIVE rather than REACTIVE athletic administration gets you. Well done for them.
You might not be as familiar with Trine because about 10 years ago they changed from Tri-State University.
The ARC is not air conditioned? Seriously? At this day and age?
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 03, 2018, 12:42:30 PM
The ARC is not air conditioned? Seriously? At this day and age?
Do even 50% of our buildings have AC? Come on guys, this is a UNIVERSITY that has a basketball habit. Not the other way.
Alumni, Lankenau and Brandt residence halls don't even have AC the last I checked. And they are occupied by humans at all times when school is in session.
You all can really be absurd with your demands. And yet I get it, but first things first.
VU62 asked a smartand longstanding question. Why did Valpo chose to remain division I back in the late 70s but proceed to not leverage its huge success?
That has always been the paradox. We sustain big operational losses to compete in Divison I. But we don't really push a priority of gaining revnue through basketball attendance. ML2 pointed out the expense realities of Division I and limits on students who can be on rosters.
Many of us long expected that a "Flutie effect" would lift the reputation of Valpo and subsequently lift enrollment. But in 2008 with Heckler's arrival it appears we changed our target student profiile. International students would not drawn by the excitement of March Madness.and generated a by-product of tuition revenue. And it appears we also target high school students who may not watch a lick of TV sports or follow current events. Or they watch it on their phones alone.
It appears that operating a net loss in athletics makes no sense if you don't align it with a target group of students who care about it.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 03, 2018, 01:20:40 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 03, 2018, 12:42:30 PM
The ARC is not air conditioned? Seriously? At this day and age?
Do even 50% of our buildings have AC? Come on guys, this is a UNIVERSITY that has a basketball habit. Not the other way.
Alumni, Lankenau and Brandt residence halls don't even have AC the last I checked. And they are occupied by humans at all times when school is in session.
You all can really be absurd with your demands. And yet I get it, but first things first.
First things first? You must be kidding. The ARC isn't on a short term list; it isn't on a long term list. It isn't on any list. It isn't next up; it isn't 10th up. It isn't anything. The only way the ARC is going to be upgraded is if someone wins the lottery, wants to pay for it, and can't be convinced by Heckler and the Board to give it to a "more worthy" facility need instead. This discussion is no less a waste of time today than it was 10 years ago.
Where is Mr. W. Buffett when we need him?
Quote from: wh on February 03, 2018, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 03, 2018, 01:20:40 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 03, 2018, 12:42:30 PM
The ARC is not air conditioned? Seriously? At this day and age?
Do even 50% of our buildings have AC? Come on guys, this is a UNIVERSITY that has a basketball habit. Not the other way.
Alumni, Lankenau and Brandt residence halls don't even have AC the last I checked. And they are occupied by humans at all times when school is in session.
You all can really be absurd with your demands. And yet I get it, but first things first.
First things first? You must be kidding. The ARC isn't on a short term list; it isn't on a long term list. It isn't on any list. It isn't next up; it isn't 10th up. It isn't anything. The only way the ARC is going to be upgraded is if someone wins the lottery, wants to pay for it, and can't be convinced by Heckler and the Board to give it to a "more worthy" facility need instead. This discussion is no less a waste of time today than it was 10 years ago.
Try re-reading my post, that's 180 degrees backward from my meaning. You make my case.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 03, 2018, 03:42:01 PM
Quote from: wh on February 03, 2018, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 03, 2018, 01:20:40 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 03, 2018, 12:42:30 PM
The ARC is not air conditioned? Seriously? At this day and age?
Do even 50% of our buildings have AC? Come on guys, this is a UNIVERSITY that has a basketball habit. Not the other way.
Alumni, Lankenau and Brandt residence halls don't even have AC the last I checked. And they are occupied by humans at all times when school is in session.
You all can really be absurd with your demands. And yet I get it, but first things first.
First things first? You must be kidding. The ARC isn't on a short term list; it isn't on a long term list. It isn't on any list. It isn't next up; it isn't 10th up. It isn't anything. The only way the ARC is going to be upgraded is if someone wins the lottery, wants to pay for it, and can't be convinced by Heckler and the Board to give it to a "more worthy" facility need instead. This discussion is no less a waste of time today than it was 10 years ago.
Try re-reading my post, that's 180 degrees backward from my meaning. You make my case.
Your "first things first" suggests that the ARC is on a master list of projects, and that you agree with it. I'm telling you that the ARC isn't anywhere on a list, short term, long term, or otherwise. If you're saying you agree that upgrading the ARC shouldn't even be a consideration, then I'm making your case for you. Otherwise, you and everyone else are operating on a false premise the Heckler actually intends to do something about the ARC and it's just a matter of timing.
Quote from: wh on February 03, 2018, 04:00:49 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 03, 2018, 03:42:01 PM
Quote from: wh on February 03, 2018, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 03, 2018, 01:20:40 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 03, 2018, 12:42:30 PM
The ARC is not air conditioned? Seriously? At this day and age?
Do even 50% of our buildings have AC? Come on guys, this is a UNIVERSITY that has a basketball habit. Not the other way.
Alumni, Lankenau and Brandt residence halls don't even have AC the last I checked. And they are occupied by humans at all times when school is in session.
You all can really be absurd with your demands. And yet I get it, but first things first.
First things first? You must be kidding. The ARC isn't on a short term list; it isn't on a long term list. It isn't on any list. It isn't next up; it isn't 10th up. It isn't anything. The only way the ARC is going to be upgraded is if someone wins the lottery, wants to pay for it, and can't be convinced by Heckler and the Board to give it to a "more worthy" facility need instead. This discussion is no less a waste of time today than it was 10 years ago.
Try re-reading my post, that's 180 degrees backward from my meaning. You make my case.
Your "first things first" suggests that the ARC is on a master list of projects, and that you agree with it. I'm telling you that the ARC isn't anywhere on a list, short term, long term, or otherwise. If you're saying you agree that upgrading the ARC shouldn't even be a consideration, then I'm making your case for you. Otherwise, you and everyone else are operating on a false premise the Heckler actually intends to do something about the ARC and it's just a matter of timing.
First things first means run a University. Once that's figured out, maybe basketball ends up on a list for a new facility. I don't believe in "build it and they will come".
Are we going to get 1,000 more avg attendance because of prettiness? Is winning dependent on a shiny new facility? I'm not with anyone that says it's 51% of winning.
I am a sports fan, I chose Valpo for small school feeling in a D1 environment (was on football and track team). Academics were the requirement for me to even consider Valpo back in 2000. Miami of Ohio has far nicer everything to a young me, but Valpo was the choice because of its quaint smaller campus combined with the prerequisite D1 sports. Facilities meant less than crap to me, but I wasn't a 4* recruit...
I don't disagree that Valpo missed the boat post "The Shot", but their dorms still sucked, the Union was a joke, the library was dark and dank and there was no real track and field to speak of. I'm perfectly fine with the universities priorities thus far.
Short of a major donor we aren't getting zip. I don't give a _____ what some metro-sexual from ISU has to say about our facilities. THEY SUCK the short ones....beat us in our high school gym anytime and then maybe we listen.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 03, 2018, 03:00:11 PM
VU62 asked a smartand longstanding question. Why did Valpo chose to remain division I back in the late 70s but proceed to not leverage its huge success?
That has always been the paradox. We sustain big operational losses to compete in Divison I. But we don't really push a priority of gaining revnue through basketball attendance. ML2 pointed out the expense realities of Division I and limits on students who can be on rosters.
Many of us long expected that a "Flutie effect" would lift the reputation of Valpo and subsequently lift enrollment. But in 2008 with Heckler's arrival it appears we changed our target student profiile. International students would not drawn by the excitement of March Madness.and generated a by-product of tuition revenue. And it appears we also target high school students who may not watch a lick of TV sports or follow current events. Or they watch it on their phones alone.
It appears that operating a net loss in athletics makes no sense if you don't align it with a target group of students who care about it.
If I were in charge I'd focus Athletics Department resources heavily on the sports that can "break even" and the "higher profile" college sports. If that meant cutting some sports to save $ and redirect resources I'd be for it. Fulfill all Title IX requirements but cut the fat where you can.
Tier 1:-Men's Basketball - I'm just being honest but it's the most important sport and should treated that way. It returns the most benefit to the University and the Athletics Department.
Tier 2:-Football
-Women's Baskeball
-Women's Volleyball
-Baseball
-Softball
-Men's Soccer
-Women's Soccer
Tier 3: -Men's Tennis
-Women's Tennis
-women's golf
-men's golf
Tier 4:-women's Track & Field
-men's track & field
-Women's cross country
-men's cross country
-men's swimming
-women's swimming
-bowling
This just how I'd tier things. I'd consider cutting some of the Tier 4 sports to cut costs and redirect those funds to other sports.
2 main requirement to qualify for D1 athletics is:-Offer at least 14 sports: seven for men and seven for women, or six for men and eight for women
-Offer at least two team sports for men and two for women
Men's Varsity Sports
Scholarship limit per School NCAA I
Baseball 11.7
Basketball 13
Cross Country - NCAA limits include Track & Field 12.6Football 0 (pioneer league)
Golf 4.5
Soccer 9.9
Swimming & Diving 9.9
Tennis 4.5
Track & Field - NCAA limits include X-Country 12.6Women's Varsity Sports
Scholarship limit per School NCAA I
Basketball 15
Bowling 5Cross Country - NCAA limits include Track & Field 18Golf 6
Soccer 14
Softball 12
Swimming & Diving 14
Tennis - NCAA I is a head count sport 8
Track & Field - NCAA limits include X-Country 18Volleyball 12
Key here, I think, is that most,if not all, of your list Tier 4 sports are essentially non-scholarship. And some of the Tier 3 are not fullt funded for scholarships either. The numbers you list are MAXIMUMS and those team bring in enrollees who pay tuition etc.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 03, 2018, 05:17:16 PM
Key here, I think, is that most,if not all, of your list Tier 4 sports are essentially non-scholarship. And some of the Tier 3 are not fullt funded for scholarships either. The numbers you list are MAXIMUMS and those team bring in enrollees who pay tuition etc.
T & F looks to have 65 athletes for example. Say they pay $15,000 each at a minimum...that's $975,000 a year. I can promise you the budget is less than that.
But I like solutions, and they don't happen first without discussion. Sometimes I need to respect that we all put ourself out there with ideas. Personally, I don't think a healthy sports variety is a detriment to the budget when most sports aren't operating at a loss (or big loss anyways). It's part of a thriving university environment.
I am not remarking that the ARC needs an upgrade, but I certainly am surprised in 2018 that our main athletic facility does not have Air conditioning. It gets used all year if I am not mistaken! I bet all other hoop and athletic facilities in the MVC have cooling other than Valpo.
Eugene Krabs is alive and well with the university board.
I blew my arm out against then Tri State University when I pitched for then PNC.
I wonder which of sports (if any) bring in more money then they spend....🤔
As some may recall, ml was asked in a local interview shortly after the move to the MVC if any assurances had been made to the MVC regarding facility improvements. ml replied that no assurances were provided. He was then asked if there is anything in the works for the future. He again said no, and added that he and mh haven't even talked about it. He also made some correlation to "fan comforts." So, those who feel that improving the ARC should be a low priority Have no fear. It's not even a twinkle in mh's eye.
If facility improvements were mandatory VU wouldn't even have been consider to get a invite.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 03, 2018, 09:10:01 PM
If facility improvements were mandatory VU wouldn't even have been consider to get a invite.
If the MVC had mandated future facility improvements 5 years ago before we would be reconsidered, then obviously we wouldn't have been reconsidered. If the MVC mandated future facility improvements last year as a requirement to join the league, it wasn't obvious to anyone that we wouldn't have agreed to join under those conditions. It only became obvious after PO asked ml in the interview I referenced. That's the only way any of us have a clue. Now we know 2 things: (1) Valpo is not committed to doing anything to improve its athletic venue, and (2) Valpo has no intention of violating its non-commitment.
Quote from: wh on February 04, 2018, 04:49:16 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 03, 2018, 09:10:01 PM
If facility improvements were mandatory VU wouldn't even have been consider to get a invite.
If the MVC had mandated future facility improvements 5 years ago before we would be reconsidered, then obviously we wouldn't have been reconsidered. If the MVC mandated future facility improvements last year as a requirement to join the league, it wasn't obvious to anyone that we wouldn't have agreed to join under those conditions. It only became obvious after PO asked ml in the interview I referenced. That's the only way any of us have a clue.
If it isn't obvious by now, let me clear things up: The Missouri Valley basketball conference did not invite Valparaiso University to join their Conference because of Valparaiso Universities facilities.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 02, 2018, 09:22:23 PMQuote from: valpo64 on February 02, 2018, 08:57:50 PMMost people who know of Valparaiso U. have no idea that the Law School is out...and for that matter they don't care. It is a non-issue as far as I am concerned. As for the ARC, the renovations will come when a big time giver(s) is found, just like the way the Trine facilities were built.
Maybe that is true but I challenge the big time giver idea. I believe that Tri-State/Trine freaking did it by saying "what the hell, go for it" and just opened the checkbook, And in less than 10 years doubled their enrollment while significantly improving their campus and brand. And they are D-III!!!! And it appears that part of their strategy was to open satellite campuses. That is the same strategy that Concordia Wisconsin used to get their enrollment over 5000.
Tri-State (Trine) turned the corner when they hired football coach Dale Carlson to run the program!
Hey. If the Eagles can win the Super Bowl, we can get a ARC upgrade. Anything is now possible.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 04, 2018, 09:28:37 PM
Hey. If the Eagles can win the Super Bowl, we can get a ARC upgrade. Anything is now possible.
President Heckler and Valparaiso University Board of Directors...
(https://i.giphy.com/media/rdJALMHoIvkWs/giphy.webp)
Those laughs seem a bit too innocent. I picture it more like......
(https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy.gif)
Hey, I have come to the point where I am OK with the ARC in its present form. It is what it is. In comparison to the other 9 venues in the MVC, it is by far the least appealing. So be it. It will always attract cynical criticism from our conference mates. We've moved up to a better conference and, in doing so, initially dropped to the bottom of this conference in both record and venue quality. We can't do much about the latter it seems, but we can change the former. Just win baby! If we do that the ARC drifts into the background. A problem I see with that approach, however, is that our BB staff will always be put into a handicap situation in recruiting when showing our gym to recruits. When displaying our gym to prospects, they start out in a bit of a hole (in comparison to other MVC facilities) and have to dig their way out by emphasizing other features of our program and university. It's not a level recruiting field, and Matt just needs to make the best of it.
As a former athlete, I'd say playing time is probably the #1 driving factor in where a recruit goes. #2 would be can this school get me to the next level (whether that be in athletics or in my field of study). If 1 and 2 are both a yes, then it would probably come down to relationships and facilities.
Quote from: M on February 05, 2018, 08:42:08 AM
As a former athlete, I'd say playing time is probably the #1 driving factor in where a recruit goes. #2 would be can this school get me to the next level (whether that be in athletics or in my field of study). If 1 and 2 are both a yes, then it would probably come down to relationships and facilities.
Couldn't agree more. If facilities were the key factor, Nebraska would be Champions (heck, they have TVs in the bathroom stalls) and Duke would constantly struggle with their old "gym". Being successful can be a good thing (great to be part of a winning tradition) or a bad thing (sure doesn't look like I'll get any playing time).
Both Daniel Sackey and Javon Freeman were scheduled for multiple visits and cancelled them after seeing our "facilities". I think the bigger complaint from our conference mates would be the intense atmosphere they face at the ARC. Not so much this year but ask Florida State how much they enjoyed coming to the ARC. Having a nice venue that is half full is not what we want even if the fans can get a martini and a massage. What we faced at SIU is a different story.
Having good coaches and a good program are the most important thing but let's not completely dismiss that have nice facilities help in recruiting to 17-18 year kids. Homer was pleading for improvements for years for a reason. We have a good thing going but it could possibly be even better.
Winning puts butts in the seats. However a few ammenities for the time being(chairbacks, restrooms, concession stgands,etc.) would help. Let's be honest, a visiting team playing in front of a capacity or near capacity crown in the ARC can be a BIG advantage to the Crusaders no matter who we are playing. Promotions, promotions, promotions! They should include both the students and general public.
I do think there have been maybe some upgrades that don't effect the ARC but that probably help in recruiting such as the updated basketball wing and locker rooms and now the air conditioning in hill top gym. Maybe not help, but probably no longer hurt.
The AC in Hilltop was a significant and much overdue improvement. Hilltop during the summers and early fall it can feel like a oven in there.
Unnamed Wealthy Alum,
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wth.gif)
https://twitter.com/LoyolaRamblers/status/960557326993428480
Quote from: vu72 on February 05, 2018, 09:15:33 AM
Quote from: M on February 05, 2018, 08:42:08 AM
As a former athlete, I'd say playing time is probably the #1 driving factor in where a recruit goes. #2 would be can this school get me to the next level (whether that be in athletics or in my field of study). If 1 and 2 are both a yes, then it would probably come down to relationships and facilities.
Couldn't agree more. If facilities were the key factor, Nebraska would be Champions (heck, they have TVs in the bathroom stalls) and Duke would constantly struggle with their old "gym". Being successful can be a good thing (great to be part of a winning tradition) or a bad thing (sure doesn't look like I'll get any playing time).
Both Daniel Sackey and Javon Freeman were scheduled for multiple visits and cancelled them after seeing our "facilities". I think the bigger complaint from our conference mates would be the intense atmosphere they face at the ARC. Not so much this year but ask Florida State how much they enjoyed coming to the ARC. Having a nice venue that is half full is not what we want even if the fans can get a martini and a massage. What we faced at SIU is a different story.
Good points here. As vu72 points out, high school kids often want to go to a program where they can play immediately ... this can make it hard for elite mid-majors to stay on top.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 05, 2018, 11:04:59 AM
Unnamed Wealthy Alum,
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/wth.gif)
https://twitter.com/LoyolaRamblers/status/960557326993428480
Looks like the guy that donated was a developer. Court papers show he received a large sum by suing the gov't in Tucson for taking and underpaying for his acreage in downtown, to build a court house. As much as $8.5 million on the propert alone.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1317309.html (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1317309.html)
Facilities matter to recruits
Facilities can influence college choice for perspective non athlete students
Facilities impact attendance
Facilities impact school spirit and pride
Is it the number one factor in any of those, no. Can it be overcome, yes. Have we overcome it in the past, yes. Can we expect to consistently sustain overcoming those challenges while other schools, especially those in our own conference, are updating their facilities, thus widening the already very apparent gap. NO.
Better facilities = Easier to recruit better student athletes = Better chance at winning = more interest/higher attendance = Better experience for fans = easier to attract students interested in sports = rebuilding the Valpo culture = More school pride = Alumni donations, etc.
Facilities are not the the end all be all but it DOES MATTER.
Quote from: vuny98 on February 05, 2018, 12:53:56 PM
Better facilities = Easier to recruit better student athletes = Better chance at winning = more interest/higher attendance = Better experience for fans = easier to attract students interested in sports = rebuilding the Valpo culture = More school pride = Alumni donations, etc.
Facilities are not the the end all be all but it DOES MATTER.
I want to put this on a billboard right outside of President Heckler's office.
Quote from: vu72 on February 05, 2018, 09:15:33 AM
Quote from: M on February 05, 2018, 08:42:08 AM
As a former athlete, I'd say playing time is probably the #1 driving factor in where a recruit goes. #2 would be can this school get me to the next level (whether that be in athletics or in my field of study). If 1 and 2 are both a yes, then it would probably come down to relationships and facilities.
Couldn't agree more. If facilities were the key factor, Nebraska would be Champions (heck, they have TVs in the bathroom stalls) and Duke would constantly struggle with their old "gym". Being successful can be a good thing (great to be part of a winning tradition) or a bad thing (sure doesn't look like I'll get any playing time).
Both Daniel Sackey and Javon Freeman were scheduled for multiple visits and cancelled them after seeing our "facilities". I think the bigger complaint from our conference mates would be the intense atmosphere they face at the ARC. Not so much this year but ask Florida State how much they enjoyed coming to the ARC. Having a nice venue that is half full is not what we want even if the fans can get a martini and a massage. What we faced at SIU is a different story.
Quote from: vuny98 on February 05, 2018, 12:53:56 PM
Facilities matter to recruits
Facilities can influence college choice for perspective non athlete students
Facilities impact attendance
Facilities impact school spirit and pride
Is it the number one factor in any of those, no. Can it be overcome, yes. Have we overcome it in the past, yes. Can we expect to consistently sustain overcoming those challenges while other schools, especially those in our own conference, are updating their facilities, thus widening the already very apparent gap. NO.
Better facilities = Easier to recruit better student athletes = Better chance at winning = more interest/higher attendance = Better experience for fans = easier to attract students interested in sports = rebuilding the Valpo culture = More school pride = Alumni donations, etc.
Facilities are not the the end all be all but it DOES MATTER.
I agree with both of these posts and believe that neither cancels the other IMO. Our facilities are not at the same level as other MVC members, so it is a bit of a handicap that Matt just has to work harder at to overcome. The sad thing is that if everything (playing time, winning tradition, possible pro try-out, intangibles, etc.. etc.) 72 and M state
is even up between VU and some other mid-major school that a recruit is interested in, it can come down to which has a better basketball environment i.e., the arena where games are played and the practice facility in which the player will spend most of his basketball time. In this one respect, we're at a disadvantage.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 05, 2018, 01:31:24 PMit can come down to which has a better basketball environment i.e., the arena where games are played and the practice facility in which the player will spend most of his basketball time. In this one respect, we're at a disadvantage.
Let me be clear that I think it is well past time for ARC renovations. However, I think we may be overstating the effect on our players. The "environment" at a game for the players has much more to do with the crowd influencing the other team's play and inspiring the home team's play. Renovations, like better food, more bathrooms, chairback seating etc will influence and increase the environment for the fans, not the players.
I really don't think a player is deciding to come to or not come to Valpo based on the seat comfort of the fans or their viewing angles. They want crowd noise and support. Now, having said that, to the extent that renovations can increase or maintain crowd numbers, I'm all for it.
So if Hilltop Gym used to be an oven in the summer without AC, then what is the ARC currrently like in the summer? frugality has run amok in Crusaderland.
72, you are a valued recruit. You are on the fence about two programs. One is Valpo and one is, say, another private, Loyola. Matt makes the last big push and gives you a tour of the empty MBB facilities including the offices, BB locker room, practice gym, and the arena.
You next drive up to Chicago where Porter Moser gives you a tour of recently refurbished Gentile, the Norville locker room and basketball office facility, and then shows you architect drawings of the new BB practice facility that starts construction this summer.
You will play college basketball for only 4, maybe 5, years. All other things being equal (including coach personality and promised playing time) and with Loyola on the upswing and Valpo rebuilding in year one in the MVC, you now come face to face with a decision that will probably be influenced not only by the physical appearance of the facilities you were shown but also the more intangible judgment on which school seems to have made and is making a major commitment to ensuring the overall success and long term growth of the program.
I know which way, as an impressionable 18 year old with only a few years in college which way I would probably lean.
I'm watching the IU-Rutgers game and they talked about facilities, because Rutgers just got a 15 million dollar donation for athletic facilities. Robbie Hummel mentioned that recruits do consider facilities.
Guarantee they consider playing time and chance to go to the next level over facilities. I'm sure it's considered, but's it's not a top priority (and if it is a top priority then the recruit shouldn't be). As for the one in a thousand recruit that we might lose to Loyola 🤷♂️
Quote from: M on February 05, 2018, 08:13:18 PM
Guarantee they consider playing time and chance to go to the next level over facilities. I'm sure it's considered, but's it's not a top priority (and if it is a top priority then the recruit shouldn't be). As for the one in a thousand recruit that we might lose to Loyola 🤷♂️
Head in the sand rationalization IMO. Moser, in 4 years, has taken Loyola from joke to first. Playing time a factor? Definitely, but for a bottom feeder historical loser? What talented player would want playing time in the MVC basement? How does that translate to a pro contract? Moser coupled playing time with a mass of other attractions, and I argue facilities and visible, administration monetary commitment closed many of his recruiting deals.
Idk, I think you put way to much weight on the importance of facilities attracting recruits and you think I way under sell it. 🤷♂️
Until we lose a big guy who says, "I chose Loyola because they have a nicer gym with comfy seats for my mom to sit and a better concession area for my pops." It's gonna be hard to sway my opinion.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 05, 2018, 08:37:46 PM
Quote from: M on February 05, 2018, 08:13:18 PM
Guarantee they consider playing time and chance to go to the next level over facilities. I'm sure it's considered, but's it's not a top priority (and if it is a top priority then the recruit shouldn't be). As for the one in a thousand recruit that we might lose to Loyola 🤷♂️
Head in the sand rationalization IMO. Moser, in 4 years, has taken Loyola from joke to first. Playing time a factor? Definitely, but for a bottom feeder historical loser? What talented player would want playing time in the MVC basement? How does that translate to a pro contract? Moser coupled playing time with a mass of other attractions, and I argue facilities and visible, administration monetary commitment closed many of his recruiting deals.
Put up your $5,000,000 and I'll put up mine. Just hush already...
Obviously, this argument has been going around for a while, but I will make the following points (yet again):
1. A facility by itself does not equal success. However, there is a big difference between recruiting as one of the smaller facilities but with the largest crowds in our old conference, and having the *dead worst* facility in our new conference, with multiple teams in the league that will outdraw us on the regular. As we are seeing, we will need to consistently attract a higher level of recruit than we did in the HL to be competitive in the MVC. And yes, facilities will matter to this level of recruit *because that is the standard they will be presented with by all our competitors*.
2. Commitment matters. Even if we still can win out on intangibles with recruits from time to time, we are still making it needlessly harder on ourselves and in essence making our coaches recruit with a hand tied behind their back. When a recruit walks into UNI or Missouri State (and no, I don't care that they are state schools - that's who were competing against now in the MVC) and then he walks into the ARC - an ARC with absolutely no plans in place to make improvements, no renderings, no nothing -- who do you think the recruit is going to think is more serious about their program and taking it - and them - to the next level?
3. Recruits may indeed not care about "fan comforts" and the like. That's also irrelevant because fans *absolutely* care about those things, and fans are the ones who buy tickets that sustain the program. We've talked a lot about attendance in here -- wanna know one big reason why attendance is so inconsistent? Lack of season ticket holders on the mezzanine, which means we're at the whim of a walk-up crowd every night willing to come sit in cramped, uncomfortable h.s.-style bleachers with no back support and having to trip over people (or climb up or down rows) to get to the aisle. Wanna sell more season tickets, ensuring larger crowds and more revenue? Make those seats something a fan wants to buy more than once or twice per year for the biggest opponents. Building your *season ticket holder* base is the key to sustaining your program's support over the long haul. And that means yes, fan amenities matter.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 05, 2018, 07:53:19 PM72, you are a valued recruit.
Thanks! On a good day I can still touch...the net! ;D
So much Loyola love on this thread, i'm thinking our student section leaders stopped in.
When will Valpo reach this millenium and have AC in the ARC?
McDonald's on Calumet is going through a major rehab right now - new brickwork and facade on the outside, complete remodel on the inside. Moreover, for weeks now, alternately, only the inside has been open as they've worked on the outside, and only the drive thru open when they're working inside.
And for what? I seldom if ever see the inside seating area full. Typically, it's not much more than half full, even at the busiest times. So here they are, spending an outlandish amount of money to serve the same food to the same customers at the same price. Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing.
Quote from: wh on February 08, 2018, 11:11:43 AM
McDonald's on Calumet is going through a major rehab right now - new brickwork and facade on the outside, complete remodel on the inside. Moreover, for weeks now, alternately, only the inside has been open as they've worked on the outside, and only the drive thru open when they're working inside.
And for what? I seldom if ever see the inside seating area full. Typically, it's not much more than half full, even at the busiest times. So here they are, spending an outlandish amount of money to serve the same food to the same customers at the same price. Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing.
I disagree, presentation and brand is mostly what they are. Quality of food is mehh, but those Golden Arches are worth their weight in gold. I travel for a living and look for "known quantities" above all else. If McDonalds in Valpo sizes markets slip on quality or presentation, ppl like myself rethink going there nationally.
Burger King cleanliness and presentation lost my business decades ago. Brand is quite important.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 06, 2018, 10:17:46 AM
So much Loyola love on this thread, i'm thinking our student section leaders stopped in.
Loyola students had great cheers/chants. When valparaiso would miss a free throw..."you let the whold team down". Then in the final minute.."this is our house". Our student section is awful.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 08, 2018, 12:58:16 PMQuote from: wh on February 08, 2018, 11:11:43 AMMcDonald's on Calumet is going through a major rehab right now - new brickwork and facade on the outside, complete remodel on the inside. Moreover, for weeks now, alternately, only the inside has been open as they've worked on the outside, and only the drive thru open when they're working inside. And for what? I seldom if ever see the inside seating area full. Typically, it's not much more than half full, even at the busiest times. So here they are, spending an outlandish amount of money to serve the same food to the same customers at the same price. Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing.
I disagree, presentation and brand is mostly what they are. Quality of food is mehh, but those Golden Arches are worth their weight in gold. I travel for a living and look for "known quantities" above all else. If McDonalds in Valpo sizes markets slip on quality or presentation, ppl like myself rethink going there nationally. Burger King cleanliness and presentation lost my business decades ago. Brand is quite important.
I take it picking up on sarcasm is not your strong suit... re: "Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing"
Quote from: truth219 on February 08, 2018, 01:37:29 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 06, 2018, 10:17:46 AM
So much Loyola love on this thread, i'm thinking our student section leaders stopped in.
Loyola students had great cheers/chants. When valparaiso would miss a free throw..."you let the whold team down". Then in the final minute.."this is our house". Our student section is awful.
It blows my mind how quickly the student section fell apart. There are some die-hards in the student but they need help. They are students sitting in other sections because they don't want to sit in a half empty student section and probably because they don't know any of the cheers. If you listen to the podcast the die-hards who are in charge of the student section don't even know what Valpo's cheers are!
Quote from: vuny98 on February 05, 2018, 12:53:56 PMFacilities are not the the end all be all but it DOES MATTER.
Will the ARC have all the updates that have been listed ad nauseum by many posters happen in our lifetime?
Probably not.
Quote from: vuny98 on February 08, 2018, 02:25:31 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 08, 2018, 12:58:16 PMQuote from: wh on February 08, 2018, 11:11:43 AMMcDonald's on Calumet is going through a major rehab right now - new brickwork and facade on the outside, complete remodel on the inside. Moreover, for weeks now, alternately, only the inside has been open as they've worked on the outside, and only the drive thru open when they're working inside. And for what? I seldom if ever see the inside seating area full. Typically, it's not much more than half full, even at the busiest times. So here they are, spending an outlandish amount of money to serve the same food to the same customers at the same price. Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing.
I disagree, presentation and brand is mostly what they are. Quality of food is mehh, but those Golden Arches are worth their weight in gold. I travel for a living and look for "known quantities" above all else. If McDonalds in Valpo sizes markets slip on quality or presentation, ppl like myself rethink going there nationally. Burger King cleanliness and presentation lost my business decades ago. Brand is quite important.
I take it picking up on sarcasm is not your strong suit... re: "Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing"
If that's a veiled attempt at pushing for a renovated ARC I see nearly zero comparable value.
Valpo is a university, not a professional basketball team.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 08, 2018, 06:42:12 PM
If that's a veiled attempt at pushing for a renovated ARC I see nearly zero comparable value.
Valpo is a university, not a professional basketball team.
And we throw nickels around like manhole covers around here.
Yeah... it doesn't look like we're getting renovations anytime soon but we can still eventually be competitive in this league. This is a rough season but it will get better.
https://twitter.com/Brett_Crawford/status/961775880304545793
goodie, a university in 2018 should have AC in their main athletic facility
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 08, 2018, 08:58:22 PM
goodie, a university in 2018 should have AC in their main athletic facility
This is undeniably and indisputably true.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 08, 2018, 08:58:22 PM
goodie, a university in 2018 should have AC in their main athletic facility
I appreciate you think that, not arguing that. But our dorms have no AC. I'm suggesting logic, the dorms are far more important than a gym used primarily from Sept to March!!!
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 08, 2018, 10:05:04 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 08, 2018, 08:58:22 PM
goodie, a university in 2018 should have AC in their main athletic facility
I appreciate you think that, not arguing that. But our dorms have no AC. I'm suggesting logic, the dorms are far more important than a gym used primarily from Sept to March!!!
They're both important. This is 2018, not 1988. A/C is not a luxury in today's America. It's unbelievable that the University continues to erect fancy building after fancy building but cries poor when it comes to maintaining and upgrading what they already have to meet today's standards.
The arc is used all year around for events
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 08, 2018, 06:42:12 PMQuote from: vuny98 on February 08, 2018, 02:25:31 PMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 08, 2018, 12:58:16 PMQuote from: wh on February 08, 2018, 11:11:43 AMMcDonald's on Calumet is going through a major rehab right now - new brickwork and facade on the outside, complete remodel on the inside. Moreover, for weeks now, alternately, only the inside has been open as they've worked on the outside, and only the drive thru open when they're working inside. And for what? I seldom if ever see the inside seating area full. Typically, it's not much more than half full, even at the busiest times. So here they are, spending an outlandish amount of money to serve the same food to the same customers at the same price. Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing.
I disagree, presentation and brand is mostly what they are. Quality of food is mehh, but those Golden Arches are worth their weight in gold. I travel for a living and look for "known quantities" above all else. If McDonalds in Valpo sizes markets slip on quality or presentation, ppl like myself rethink going there nationally. Burger King cleanliness and presentation lost my business decades ago. Brand is quite important.
I take it picking up on sarcasm is not your strong suit... re: "Obviously, McDonalds has no idea what it's doing"
If that's a veiled attempt at pushing for a renovated ARC I see nearly zero comparable value. Valpo is a university, not a professional basketball team.
The point is complacency kills. A new ARC wont instantly make the team better, won't instantly bring in better attendance, won't magically improve recruiting, wont suddenly drive student interest up. Just like renovating a McDonald's won't instantly drive more traffic and sales. But as you pointed out yourself by admitting Burger King lost your business years ago, the risk of not doing that can be dire. The more we let the ARC slip further and further behind the more we risk getting to a point where we go from a premier mid major program to just another face in the crowd. And the climb back up is much harder than maintaining momentum.
I never knew that some dorms still lack A.C.
I agree with you that is highly irritating that the university continues to erect super-sized glistening buildings for academic classrooms that consume high AC/heating bills, but doesn't raise current ones to logical levels. I am guessing each student in the library or union as about 5,000 personal square feet to himseslf in off-peak hours.
And of course,.......enrollment has not risen to justify the size of these new buildings of library, union, and etc. If enrollment were stronger, there would be no logical question of adding A-C.
If we build it (swanky large buildings)...........will they come? The classic Kevin Koster vision. So far the answer is a resounding NO.
Is Valpo so strapped for cash that they cannot upgrade existing buildings, or at least key buildings, with AC? Seriously?
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 09, 2018, 10:28:43 AM
Is Valpo so strapped for cash that they cannot upgrade existing buildings, or at least key buildings, with AC? Seriously?
I see it as fiscally conservative, but that's because I am as well. You all make good points about AC at the very least. I'm a fat guy, AC is wonderful! But my thought process says why put lipstick on a pig.
If I have exactly (1) budget item available I go after completely upgrading a dorm (ground up) as opposed to AC in both facilities with numerous little upgrades.
Why spend any money on surface level items that add up quickly IF you have structural needs that aren't addressed by surface level improvements.
The ARC is 34 year old. I am sure an AC system can be added tot he ventilation. It will also not break the bank as there is a $300 endowment.
Also, putting lipstick on a pig, indicates the apathy toward what basketball has done for this university.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 09, 2018, 01:21:42 PM
The ARC is 34 year old. I am sure an AC system can be added tot he ventilation. It will also not break the bank as there is a $300 endowment.
Also, putting lipstick on a pig, indicates the apathy toward what basketball has done for this university.
Endowment means cash in hand right!?!?!? 🤔
Aren't endowments mostly promises and best scenario dreaming? Difference between VU and Gov't is that VU has repercussions of improper spend. Wright State can speak to that, oh wait....they get tax payer money in this public sector blank check world.
We don't have that sort of backup parachute. The same qualities that make VU attractive (Lutheran for example) are also the same values that make their ruling body fiscally conservative.
I don't disagree with you USC, but VU can't run itself like nearing bankruptcy IL.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 09, 2018, 10:14:06 AMI agree with you that is highly irritating that the university continues to erect super-sized glistening buildings for academic classrooms that consume high AC/heating bills, but doesn't raise current ones to logical levels. I am guessing each student in the library or union as about 5,000 personal square feet to himseslf in off-peak hours.
I believe that all of these new buildings are built to LEED standards, in other words about as Green as you can get. LEED stands for Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) a rating system devised by the United States Green Building Council (USGBC) to evaluate the environmental performance and sustainable design of a building.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 09, 2018, 10:14:06 AM
I never knew that some dorms still lack A.C.
I agree with you that is highly irritating that the university continues to erect super-sized glistening buildings for academic classrooms that consume high AC/heating bills, but doesn't raise current ones to logical levels. I am guessing each student in the library or union as about 5,000 personal square feet to himseslf in off-peak hours.
And of course,.......enrollment has not risen to justify the size of these new buildings of library, union, and etc. If enrollment were stronger, there would be no logical question of adding A-C.
If we build it (swanky large buildings)...........will they come? The classic Kevin Koster vision. So far the answer is a resounding NO.
I can't even imagine the old library, but the new library is typically slammed with students. The entrance hall gets used a ton, and the study tables on the 3rd and 4th floors are usually full. Quiet rooms are virtually impossible to get without resorting to violence.
As for the Union, they consolidated 4 or 5 dining halls to one area. I still contend the rec area was built too small. Perhaps there's wasted space in both places, but these two buildings get a ton of use.
Many arguments that have been said about the ARC or lack of a new rec center could have been said about the old library and union. Other than academics, the university couldn't win on dorms, student activities, dining, things to do, etc. Having windowless dungeons for academic buildings (Gelerson) doesn't help either.
I think the university needs a rec center, simply for student recruiting, but I think it would have been absurd to upgrade the ARC before getting the union situation under control. Also, there was clearly a donor for the Union. There's not one for a rec center because our big donors aren't huge sports fans.
Similar to business, when you get overly frugal, you miss opportunities and you looking at the tree rather than the forest. This over frugality can detriment student enrollment. No AC in the main athletic facility is being cheap. Regarding dorms, allow students to bring in units to the windows - but oh no, electric energy consumption will increase!
Info, there are a number of dorms at Indiana University that are NOT air conditioned.
Since most of our athletics events are played in the Fall, Winter and Spring the ARC have AC isn't really the biggest issue in the grand scheme of things, particularly during basketball season it's not a issue at all. The Volleyball team might have a complaint during the September it can get really hot in there but most of the time it's fine, imo. Have AC at Hilltop was a very important upgrade for teams practicing in there during the summer.
Re: Softball 2018-19
« Reply #7 on: Today at 10:45:29 AM »
The bubble is the dome in Crown Point. Several of our teams use it as it's big enough to practice punting, hitting or play mulitple soccer games. It's been a good resource for the teams in these winter conditions even if it's a bit of a drive
http://www.spartadome.com/
Something to be filed away for future consideration. Based on the presumed order of athletic facility development ( i.e., build Field House/Recreaction Facility first then renovate the ARC) which would involve double digit millions to accomplish, might it be less financially onerous to do an interim stage where a new turf soccer/all purpose field gets built where the 30 year plan indicates it will go anyway, and in doing so, also add a bubble over it like the Spartadome. This would add a badly needed separate practice facility for soccer in the fall and offseason and take a great deal of pressure off the ARC in terms of other team usage during the winter months. This could greatly facilitate the renovation timetable of the ARC (if it is ever going to be renovated). Somewhere down the road the more permanent facility identified in the 30-year plan can be built. Another example of this is that Concordia St. Paul (NCAA D-II) bubbled over their entire football field to provide extra athletic space. Total cost of the whole Sea Foam FB stadium complex (including new FB grandstands/pressbox, all-weather 400 meter track, and the dome) was $8 million. It supports approximately 300 CSP athletes.
http://cspbears.com/facilities/?id=76
This idea would be a lot less expensive. Even cheaper would be to just modify Brown Field to allow for doming over of the playing surface in late November to the end of March. This lessens congestion in tghe ARC and removes the obstacle of where do non-BB teams practice while the ARC undergoes renovation (expansion?). BTW, CSP runs community programs in their dome and makes a little rental money off that along the way.
I'm going to bet the administration chooses to move the business school to the law building.
The problem, as I pointed out previously, is that the law building will need to be repurposed, the cost of which will take away from any other building project the university has in mind.
In addition, the area just east of the law building is, well, terrible. Stand across the street from the old Theta Chi house and look west. The open lot and the apartment buildings to the south (where I think there used to be, for lack of a better team, quonset-style housing) is an eyesore. It does not feel like part of campus to me. I think a new building should go in the open field, which would help connect the old part of campus to the new. Unfortunately, the university will probably decide to turn it into a parking lot.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on March 04, 2018, 02:37:26 PM
I'm going to bet the administration chooses to move the business school to the law building.
The problem, as I pointed out previously, is that the law building will need to be repurposed, the cost of which will take away from any other building project the university has in mind.
In addition, the area just east of the law building is, well, terrible. Stand across the street from the old Theta Chi house and look west. The open lot and the apartment buildings to the south (where I think there used to be, for lack of a better team, quonset-style housing) is an eyesore. It does not feel like part of campus to me. I think a new building should go in the open field, which would help connect the old part of campus to the new. Unfortunately, the university will probably decide to turn it into a parking lot.
Paul
You are on! ;)
I doubt any academic buildings go west as the main plan is consolidate them to the East of campus. As for the empty field. That lot has been reserved for a potential moving of the Sig Ep house So I believe it's on hold for now.
My guess is that if they do something with the Law School Buildings It will be a joint venture with the community or some sort of experiential learning center rather than a straight class room building. Can't really do much about the privately owned apartments other than hope that they eventually go up for sale and get torn down and replaced. I could imagine a scenario where, as more fraternities are built along Union street, apartments closer the Greek Row become in demand by college students and maybe more lucrative.
One of the biggest benefits of moving to the MVC was shown by Loyola's run: if we and the rest of the conference can keep the success going and rack up more units it will be easier to complete some of the main upgrades we have been clamoring for: the extra money could help finance dorm renovations which will attract more students and tuition dollars which helps the rec center come to fruition and finally ARC RENOVATIONS! I realize that without big donations this is still years away but I can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 01, 2018, 09:03:08 PM
One of the biggest benefits of moving to the MVC was shown by Loyola's run: if we and the rest of the conference can keep the success going and rack up more units it will be easier to complete some of the main upgrades we have been clamoring for: the extra money could help finance dorm renovations which will attract more students and tuition dollars which helps the rec center come to fruition and finally ARC RENOVATIONS! I realize that without big donations this is still years away but I can at least see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I don't think we're ever going to be able to fund renovations solely on tourney units. It's a nice surplus that goes a long way to funding the program but not near the amount we'd need to get renovations or to put up new buildings. Any reno or building will either need to be funded by debt or a wealthy/generous donor. There is a rumor that their working on an alumni to fund the potential rec center and it may be possible in the relatively near future. I feel like we're a long ways away from seeing a renovation. Potentially a decade(s?).
Well let's at least use the money and the profile boost to start some quality home and home series and buy some quality home games.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 01, 2018, 09:31:03 PM
Well let's at least use the money and the profile boost to start some quality home and home series and buy some quality home games.
I wonder if the Athletics Department or Coaching Staff have ever seriously considered buying home games with other mid-majors? It's very rare for mid-majors to buy games but I know Gonzaga and St. Mary's does. I don't know what the going rate is. I heard Butler paid $50,000 for low-major teams to play them at hinkle fieldhouse. BU can pull off those crap games because they have BE tv $ coming in and they can sell it to their fans because they have a BE Conf slate of games on the back end of regular season schedule. I just don't think we're in a position to be doing buy games. I'd think we're better off just doing H-&-H's with other quality mids. We might be better served putting that $ back into the program by way of recruiting budget & hiring the best coaches/staff possible. That would probably go a longer way towards furthering the teams goals.
Dear President Heckler: "If you build it, Roy will come" ;)
https://twitter.com/SethOnHoops/status/985938397918359554
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MiserableExcitableElkhound-size_restricted.gif)
Looks like Loyola already capitalizing on the FF success and building an $18MM practice facility on campus per today's Chicago Sun Times...
https://www.suntimeshighschoolsports.com/2018/04/22/porter-mosers-overlooked-coaching-strength-recruiting/
Quote from: ValpoDad89 on April 23, 2018, 08:46:38 AM
Looks like Loyola already capitalizing on the FF success and building an $18MM practice facility on campus per today's Chicago Sun Times...
https://www.suntimeshighschoolsports.com/2018/04/22/porter-mosers-overlooked-coaching-strength-recruiting/
The practice facility well planned and announced before the Final Four appearance.
I really like what Loyola is doing and where they are headed. I wonder how their doing regarding recruiting. They have tremendous momentum right now and their are taking advantage of it. I wish Valpo would have done the same 20 years ago.
Practice facilities are overrated. Duke practices at Cameron Indoor. Difference being they only share that with Women's bball and Volleyball.
The Valpo equivalent would be building an IM fieldhouse so the ARC can be made to be used for just varsity sports.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 23, 2018, 01:09:11 PM
Practice facilities are overrated. Duke practices at Cameron Indoor. Difference being they only share that with Women's bball and Volleyball.
The Valpo equivalent would be building an IM fieldhouse so the ARC can be made to be used for just varsity sports.
Practice facilities aren't everything but those things differ in importance to recruits. There is a reason the Drews were pushing the University for ARC improvements... We don't have a dedicated facility just for our student athletes. We need to get that Student Rec Center, not only for the Student Body but also for our athletes. Those things impact recruiting.
We finally joined the 21st century and got Air Conditioning in the hilltop gym. That is huge for multiple reasons.
We're so far behind our conference-mates in terms of facilities. It's an uphill battle. Doesn't mean we can't win the league eventually but let's not kid ourselves that having facility upgrades wouldn't be a recruiting pitch from the coaching staff if we had them in the works like Loyola does.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/10Azn3NLVp0AjC/giphy.gif)
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 23, 2018, 02:26:34 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/10Azn3NLVp0AjC/giphy.gif)
True but still relevant.
I would bet that Cameron indoor stadium has air conditioning!
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 23, 2018, 01:09:11 PM
Practice facilities are overrated. Duke practices at Cameron Indoor. Difference being they only share that with Women's bball and Volleyball.
The Valpo equivalent would be building an IM fieldhouse so the ARC can be made to be used for just varsity sports.
I'm pretty sure Hilltop is now dedicated to only Men's and Women's basketball and maybe Volleyball. Oh, softball does have hitting cages upstairs there as well.
Where's the money coming from? If Valpo wants to be a functioning UNIVERSITY in 15-years they need to manage their debt while addressing glaring holes (outdated dorms, academic halls and an actual student rec center).
Someone mentioned $140,000,000 in updates over the last two VU presi(debts) terms. If that's true we have a sizable monthly nut to overcome on past building obligations. Not sure that includes the amazing list our peers generated of work done since the 2000's even, but I'm assuming it does.
Do Universities offer municipal type bonds for financing debt? Clearly we aren't a city nor are we public, but what's the main avenue for getting the cheddar for such upgrades for a private U?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 23, 2018, 06:02:32 PM
Someone mentioned $140,000,000 in updates over the last two VU presi(debts) terms. If that's true we have a sizable monthly nut to overcome on past building obligations. Not sure that includes the amazing list our peers generated of work done since the 2000's even, but I'm assuming it does.
I believe most of the new buildings/projects on campus were funded through donations. The one build I know that was funded with debt was the College of Arts & Sciences building.
Both new academic buildings as well as the Sorority houses and Beacon were all funded fully or partially by the Bonds. From what I understand they are relatively low risk and have a very low interest rate so they are not viewed as a negative regarding the overall financial health of the university. I think the University's current financial crunch is probably more in relation to year to year budgets just in regards to their desire to increase both numbers of students and increase academic prestige of the students as that usually requires more financial aid and most yearly budgets are based on tuition. That's also why the endowment is so important. The more faculty positions and programs get funded through that, the more room to play with dollars allows for more student aid or smaller projects like the new landscaping and renovations of the freshman dorms.
President Harre raised donor gifts to cover the WHOLE cost of three major buidlings: the VUCA, the library, and the student union. He and his board did not borrow a cent of the costs.
By contrast it would appear that President Heckler MAY have only built two smaller projects with gifts (Duesenberg center and chapel addition at a combined $20 million) The trouble with borrowing is that the money isn't free. How much of the current budget is required to pay for the debt-financed construction? Thank the students when you see them.
while it's true borrowing isn't free Harre's reluctance to not build unless all money was raised is partly why we are in a situation where we have massive needs for new buildings both academic and residential.
Valpo has a history of being overly frugal.
Post financial crisis was the time to be borrowing money because of the historically low interest rate environment the economy was in. We still are in a low interest rate environment but rates will likely be going up over the 5-10 years and borrowing will become more expensive.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 25, 2018, 09:17:35 AM
Post financial crisis was the time to be borrowing money because of the historically low interest rate environment the economy was in. We still are in a low interest rate environment but rates will likely be going up over the 5-10 years and borrowing will become more expensive.
Seeing that President Heckler took office during the worst part of the financial crisis and all the previously mentioned buildings, where borrowed funds were used, were built since then, it is now obvious that you are clearly supporting the Board's financial management! ;D
Fair enough. Yes, he did inherit a window of low interest rates that made it a good time to borrow IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT.
But even at zero percent you have to pay it back.
I simply ask how much per year the board is paying back to bondholders? Is that inhibiting annual cash flow now?
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 25, 2018, 07:37:23 PM
Fair enough. Yes, he did inherit a window of low interest rates that made it a good time to borrow IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO IT.
But even at zero percent you have to pay it back.
I simply ask how much per year the board is paying back to bondholders? Is that inhibiting annual cash flow now?
Also fair enough. Here is the issue and one the Board faces when making these decisions:"If we don't take the risk, how many kids, paying part or full tuition, won't pick Valpo?" When students or parents can't find where they are suppose to meet their hosts on a first visit or there simply aren't dorms with air-conditioning, or, STEM students visit a building which has cold air blowing through it in the winter, or... How many students, choosing other institutions, if choosing Valpo, would more then make up for the bond issue payments? Welcome to the Board Room at Valparaiso University.
I would imagine just about every University in the country borrows money to fund some projects.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 26, 2018, 06:34:00 AM
I would imagine just about every University in the country borrows money to fund some projects.
The key is selecting which projects to borrow for. One likely scenario for borrowing is for a facility that could be a revenue generator that can offset some or all of the debt liability. I can't think of any such facility right now, but that would be worth looking into ::) ;)
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 26, 2018, 06:34:00 AM
I would imagine just about every University in the country borrows money to fund some projects.
I wonder if University of Phoenix has to borrow money.
Trump University gets their money from their very loyal lawyers.
Get a free account at munios.com and you can download PDFs of bond information (prepared for prospective investors) for Valpo, or any other university you'd like to compare it to. These documents are densely written in legal and financial terms, so you will need some background in one or both areas to fully understand everything in them, but the breadth of financial and institutional information available in them is stunning. There are files available for Valpo from 2007, 2010, 2014 and 2017 which each show a snapshot of where the university was at those times, and what money was borrowed for.
I found this online. Gives a pretty good picture of the financial status of things. The rates we're paying to borrow money and where that money went.
http://www.govwiki.info/pdfs/Non-Profit/IN%20The%20Lutheran%20University%20Association%20Inc.%20-%20Valparaiso%20University%202016.pdf (http://www.govwiki.info/pdfs/Non-Profit/IN%20The%20Lutheran%20University%20Association%20Inc.%20-%20Valparaiso%20University%202016.pdf)
Valpo to an extent is analogous to what what Mike Ditka said about George Halas:"He throws nickels like manhole covers." We need to quit being overly conservative fiscally regarding this or it will bite us in the future. Prospective selected students these days demand quality facilities.
Quote from: mj on April 26, 2018, 10:51:13 AM
I found this online. Gives a pretty good picture of the financial status of things. The rates we're paying to borrow money and where that money went.
http://www.govwiki.info/pdfs/Non-Profit/IN%20The%20Lutheran%20University%20Association%20Inc.%20-%20Valparaiso%20University%202016.pdf (http://www.govwiki.info/pdfs/Non-Profit/IN%20The%20Lutheran%20University%20Association%20Inc.%20-%20Valparaiso%20University%202016.pdf)
Thanks for finding this. Very interesting. Here are some highlights:
The "unfunded" tuition number went up to 62.5 million from 57.4. This is the "discount" given to students to be competitive with similar schools. Next, Valpo had "Operating Expenses in Excess of Income" in both years--$2.6 million in 2016 and $3.5 million in 2015.
Next is the income from Endowment--$10.7 million in 2016 and $10.3 million in 2015. This is from unrestricted dollars.
Now, perhaps this will clear up some things about the need for endowment. If we could add $200 million in unrestricted endowment, at a 5% payout that would double the payout and perhaps allow the University to be able to invest in much needed infrastructure--including athletic facilities.
Remember, much of the funds "raised" via the current drive are not in the bank and are pledges most likely from estates of folks in their 40's, 50's, 60's etc. Perhaps all will come to fruition in 20 or 30 years.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 26, 2018, 10:56:49 AM
Valpo to an extent is analogous to what what Mike Ditka said about George Halas:"He throws nickels like manhole covers." We need to quit being overly conservative fiscally regarding this or it will bite us in the future. Prospective selected students these days demand quality facilities.
If you are paying $50K annually (rack rate before financial aid/loans) for an education, the "extras" mean a lot. Often those extras are the difference makers in deciding to attend one school versus another.
In life, happiness can be incremental when you pay that extra dollar for that slice of cheese on your burger.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 26, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
In life, happiness can be incremental when you pay that extra dollar for that slice of cheese on your burger.
Are you arguing for spending like the US gov't? Or are you arguing we shouldn't load up on debt?
Like Confucius, your statement is open ended (probably by design).
I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.
I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.
If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause ;)
Quote from: VU2014 on April 26, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.
I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.
If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause ;)
Quote from: VU2014 on April 26, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.
I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.
If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause ;)
Come on Man. You are really stretching it when you say that the renovations to Gentile caused Loyola's success. The renovations were completed following the 2010-2011 season. Since that time Loyola has had a winning in conference record Eight or Sweet Sixteen, think again.Players win games, not toilets.
I I would also be making a visit to Valpo should I win the lottery! ;D
I didn't say the gentile reno is the sole reason but it certainly helped with recruiting. The reno was completed in the winter of 2012. Obviously moving up to the MVC helped also with recruiting. Players win games and facilities help sell many recruits.
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2018, 06:10:01 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 26, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.
I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.
If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause ;)
Quote from: VU2014 on April 26, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.
I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.
If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause ;)
Come on Man. You are really stretching it when you say that the renovations to Gentile caused Loyola's success. The renovations were completed following the 2010-2011 season. Since that time Loyola has had a winning in conference record Eight or Sweet Sixteen, think again.Players win games, not toilets.
I I would also be making a visit to Valpo should I win the lottery! ;D
Not that facilities alone make good teams, but plenty of MBB recruits around the country in today's world do seem to say that the facilities they saw on their visits were great and show a commitment to athletics by a schools administration.
At Valpo I don't think we can use facilities as one of our primary assets/features during recruiting visits for MBB. "The Shot" and our "Cinderella status" have played out pretty much by now. Valpo needs to sell our values, players, history of success in the last two decades, developing pro players, our coaching staff, conference affiliation. Lots of good things to sell.
We do a very good job at that...but IMO we need to step it up and bring our facilities up to the current MVC levels since we recruit against most MVC schools along with other good mid-majors.
I believe the good folks in the Athletics Dept. know this, and the BOD
and Administration can always find another project of greater importance. Why move up the conference ladder from
Mid-Con to HL to MVC over a decade without a clear plan (including funding) and timetable to improve the ARC which has been dated for awhile now. To me that just makes no sense. I love Valpo MBB and want us to use it as the "front porch" in marketing the school as many other universities do, privates included.
Raising $$ for the endowment is great and certainly needed, but for once can Athletics and the flagship sport of MBB become a priority to invest in improved facilities!
I'm passionate about Valpo and athletics. Wish I had the serious money to make a difference.
#GoValpo #MVCHoops #ValpointheValley
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2018, 06:10:01 PM
Come on Man. You are really stretching it when you say that the renovations to Gentile caused Loyola's success. The renovations were completed following the 2010-2011 season. Since that time Loyola has had a winning in conference record Eight or Sweet Sixteen, think again.Players win games, not toilets.
I I would also be making a visit to Valpo should I win the lottery! ;D
To vu72's point, Valpo has won a bunch of games over the last 10 years while playing in facilities many on this board call "subpar", while there are lots of schools with new bright shiny buildings that can't even get to an NCAA tournament. Players and coaching wins games.
Valpo has done a great job of identifying players who are more focused on a school with winning tradition, great coaching and a track record of developing pros vs those who are focused on material things like facilities.
Good call, Eddie
QuoteValpo has won a bunch of games over the last 10 years while playing in facilities many on this board call "subpar", while there are lots of schools with new bright shiny buildings that can't even get to an NCAA tournament. Players and coaching wins games.
And that situation is no longer analagous. We won lots of games in a significantly worse conference, where we had one of the two or three best basketball pedigrees of any team in the league, and where our facility was no worse than middle of the pack (and if they had a better facility, they were likely a commuter school). We're now in a conference with lots of excellent programs, several of which have historical success to top ours (and others match it at worst), larger student populations on-campus, larger fanbases, and
every single league opponent has exponentially better facilities than we do.
If the university takes the attitude above, that "well, we won lots of games with our crappy gym in the Mid-Con and Horizon League, so obviously that will follow us to the Valley," they're making a grave error of comparing apples to oranges. The level of recruits we will need to be competitive long-term in the Valley will most *definitely* evaluate us on our facilities, because that is what they'll come to expect when touring other schools.
We use the days of beating up on Youngstown, UIC and IUPUI as our yardstick moving forward at our peril.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on April 27, 2018, 02:08:32 PMThe level of recruits we will need to be competitive long-term in the Valley will most *definitely* evaluate us on our facilities, because that is what they'll come to expect when touring other schools.
You may be right, may be wrong. We have had two recruiting years so far. Two of our three from last year left because they weren't as good as our Horizon League level recruits. Our next class including a First Team All-State Illinois player and a Canadian who was good enough to be selected to play in Canada's version of the McDonald's All America game. We shall see.
As for facilities being what they expect, there must be a bunch of crappy facilities out there. So far, there are 533 D1 players seeking a new team. Could it be more than facilities? Maybe something like. say, playing time? ???
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on April 27, 2018, 02:08:32 PM
QuoteValpo has won a bunch of games over the last 10 years while playing in facilities many on this board call "subpar", while there are lots of schools with new bright shiny buildings that can't even get to an NCAA tournament. Players and coaching wins games.
And that situation is no longer analagous. We won lots of games in a significantly worse conference, where we had one of the two or three best basketball pedigrees of any team in the league, and where our facility was no worse than middle of the pack (and if they had a better facility, they were likely a commuter school). We're now in a conference with lots of excellent programs, several of which have historical success to top ours (and others match it at worst), larger student populations on-campus, larger fanbases, and every single league opponent has exponentially better facilities than we do[/i].
If the university takes the attitude above, that "well, we won lots of games with our crappy gym in the Mid-Con and Horizon League, so obviously that will follow us to the Valley," they're making a grave error of comparing apples to oranges. The level of recruits we will need to be competitive long-term in the Valley will most *definitely* evaluate us on our facilities, because that is what they'll come to expect when touring other schools.
We use the days of beating up on Youngstown, UIC and IUPUI as our yardstick moving forward at our peril.
And I might add larger alumni bases, with deeper pockets, that are very attuned to athletics in general and MBB in particular. If we had this type of alumni support, it would certainly make sense to rely on gifts to fund facilities upgrades. But we do not.
Yet we still must compete for players out of HS as well as transfers. Unfortunately, it is not a level playing field for Valpo when it comes to competing for those better prospects. As Bigmo suggests, prospects will do a comparison and, all other things being equal (including playing time), just cannot check off that facilities box for Valpo. The result? He chooses another MVC program with a) a winning tradition, b) good coaching and c) better facilities.
Oh, and now that we are in a conference that is #8 in the country, the type of prospects we need to go after to be competitive within the conference are even more basketball-focused than the kids we used to go after. In my opinion, we will find it harder and harder to attract the caliber of player we need using the "great education you get that prepares you for the future" card, because more and more of our prospects see the future as basketball, not being a brain surgeon.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 27, 2018, 02:45:55 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on April 27, 2018, 02:08:32 PM
QuoteValpo has won a bunch of games over the last 10 years while playing in facilities many on this board call "subpar", while there are lots of schools with new bright shiny buildings that can't even get to an NCAA tournament. Players and coaching wins games.
And that situation is no longer analagous. We won lots of games in a significantly worse conference, where we had one of the two or three best basketball pedigrees of any team in the league, and where our facility was no worse than middle of the pack (and if they had a better facility, they were likely a commuter school). We're now in a conference with lots of excellent programs, several of which have historical success to top ours (and others match it at worst), larger student populations on-campus, larger fanbases, and every single league opponent has exponentially better facilities than we do[/i].
If the university takes the attitude above, that "well, we won lots of games with our crappy gym in the Mid-Con and Horizon League, so obviously that will follow us to the Valley," they're making a grave error of comparing apples to oranges. The level of recruits we will need to be competitive long-term in the Valley will most *definitely* evaluate us on our facilities, because that is what they'll come to expect when touring other schools.
We use the days of beating up on Youngstown, UIC and IUPUI as our yardstick moving forward at our peril.
And I might add larger alumni bases, with deeper pockets, that are very attuned to athletics in general and MBB in particular. If we had this type of alumni support, it would certainly make sense to rely on gifts to fund facilities upgrades. But we do not.
Yet we still must compete for players out of HS as well as transfers. Unfortunately, it is not a level playing field for Valpo when it comes to competing for those better prospects. As Bigmo suggests, prospects will do a comparison and, all other things being equal (including playing time), just cannot check off that facilities box for Valpo. The result? He chooses another MVC program with a) a winning tradition, b) good coaching and c) better facilities.
I think this might be a good topic for Union Street Hoops, interviewing previous players about the impact "facilities" had on their decision. I think we fans may have a different view from players as to what facilities we have in mind. Many times players have said that playing at the ARC in front of a packed house is "electric". I wonder if playing in one of The Valley's larger venues would have the same impact. So we have a new locker room, an air-conditioned dedicated practice facility as well as uncomfortable chairs, limited bathrooms and limited food options in the ARC. Do those limitations impact a players decision? I wonder and just don't know. Would love to hear from players.
I'm guessing location is a big factor for some. Being close to Chicago for others (particularly Foreign players). Christian atmosphere for others, Coaches and playing style for others and of course playing time for most. Just curious whether or not the concerns voiced here are the same ones the athletes might have. Remember, our crummy Horizon league recruits regularly beat Missouri Valley teams prior to last year.
Goodie, seriously. I am not suggesting that Valpo puts itself in deep debt. I am saying that Valpo should take a calculated risk once in a while and avoid being too conservative fiscally.
Also, are there product or services that are a black hole financially and are not adding value to Valpo's vision? If so, brutal as it may sound, consider bagging them.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 27, 2018, 03:29:49 PM
Goodie, seriously. I am not suggesting that Valpo puts itself in deep debt. I am saying that Valpo should take a calculated risk once in a while and avoid being too conservative fiscally.
Also, are there product or services that are a black hole financially and are not adding value to Valpo's vision? If so, brutal as it may sound, consider bagging them.
Thanks for clarifying, I'm not a philosopher so your eloquent statement had too many possible meanings. Cheese is good though, in moderation!
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 27, 2018, 03:29:49 PMI am saying that Valpo should take a calculated risk
And I wonder whether or not they already have. If Alan Harre left Valpo with zero debt then the board has added nearly 200 million of debt to the books since President Heckler took office. Even at 3%, 30 year terms, that's 10 million a year in debt service. I don't think even the most avid basketball fans would suggest that a new ARC was more important then a new science building, a new library or a new union. But then again, if we are going down, why not throw another 100 million on the fire! Seriously, our credit rating was at risk not long ago and adding more debt may seriously impact that, I just don't know.
Not a new a ARC. Just a physically improved ARC. Not $8 million total gut and rebuild like the Gentile Center. $1million to $2 million for new seating and some cosmetic improvements including improved concession locations. As you point out, the ARC can be electriv "when it is packed." But the place needs rejuvenation badly. When we check out some of the recruit highlights, the HS gyms some of them play in are much better lit and have newer seating. That helps attract fans to fill seats and even empty on a practice day (cuz they don't always use Hilltop for practice) or half empty during a game, it shows a prospect
visible investment in the program's future.
Quote from: vu72 on April 27, 2018, 03:23:22 PM
I think this might be a good topic for Union Street Hoops, interviewing previous players about the impact "facilities" had on their decision. I think we fans may have a different view from players as to what facilities we have in mind. Many times players have said that playing at the ARC in front of a packed house is "electric". I wonder if playing in one of The Valley's larger venues would have the same impact. So we have a new locker room, an air-conditioned dedicated practice facility as well as uncomfortable chairs, limited bathrooms and limited food options in the ARC. Do those limitations impact a players decision? I wonder and just don't know. Would love to hear from players.
I'm guessing location is a big factor for some. Being close to Chicago for others (particularly Foreign players). Christian atmosphere for others, Coaches and playing style for others and of course playing time for most. Just curious whether or not the concerns voiced here are the same ones the athletes might have. Remember, our crummy Horizon league recruits regularly beat Missouri Valley teams prior to last year.
our HS arena is nicer than the ARC, and I live in Iowa!
I never said a new arena - you guys are going to extremes. But an ARC upgrade would make much sense - cripe, like the rest of the schools in the MVC, start by installing AC!
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 27, 2018, 05:00:42 PM
our HS arena is nicer than the ARC, and I live in Iowa!
I never said a new arena - you guys are going to extremes. But an ARC upgrade would make much sense - cripe, like the rest of the schools in the MVC, start by installing AC!
Good lord, you Hoosiers are insane. I now see why you keep calling the ARC a high school gym. (Though I respectfully disagree but for the retractable bleachers)
Indiana has 14 of 16 largest high school gyms in America!
Note: Football stadiums appears that Texas is far less committed than you Hoosiers. Only 5 of 13 biggest football stadiums in America.
Ha, though I'd be willing to speculate the average stadium size in TX is a good deal ahead of their competition?!?!
Hoosiers? West Des Moines Valley isn't facing Mishawaka Penn anytime soon.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 27, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
Not a new a ARC. Just a physically improved ARC. Not $8 million total gut and rebuild like the Gentile Center. $1million to $2 million for new seating and some cosmetic improvements including improved concession locations. As you point out, the ARC can be electriv "when it is packed." But the place needs rejuvenation badly. When we check out some of the recruit highlights, the HS gyms some of them play in are much better lit and have newer seating. That helps attract fans to fill seats and even empty on a practice day (cuz they don't always use Hilltop for practice) or half empty during a game, it shows a prospect visible investment in the program's future.
Quote from: vu72 on April 27, 2018, 03:23:22 PM
I think this might be a good topic for Union Street Hoops, interviewing previous players about the impact "facilities" had on their decision. I think we fans may have a different view from players as to what facilities we have in mind. Many times players have said that playing at the ARC in front of a packed house is "electric". I wonder if playing in one of The Valley's larger venues would have the same impact. So we have a new locker room, an air-conditioned dedicated practice facility as well as uncomfortable chairs, limited bathrooms and limited food options in the ARC. Do those limitations impact a players decision? I wonder and just don't know. Would love to hear from players.
I'm guessing location is a big factor for some. Being close to Chicago for others (particularly Foreign players). Christian atmosphere for others, Coaches and playing style for others and of course playing time for most. Just curious whether or not the concerns voiced here are the same ones the athletes might have. Remember, our crummy Horizon league recruits regularly beat Missouri Valley teams prior to last year.
I think if you ask Mark L., $1 to $2 million is "perfume on a pig". The problem with the ARC go WAY beyond the seating and concessions. When it was built we didn't have many of the teams we have now. To do it correctly we need to get the Rec Center done first and then move folks out so it can be fixed once and for all. Perhaps some of the things you suggest could be done a head of time but I would rather see it done correctly including possible club seating etc. Pretty sure the lighting is just fine!
I would like to see something what Drake has. Both schools are comparable academically - why would that be asking too much?
Looks like we came in at 146th in attendance in D1 last year.
Drake 2,843
Valpo 3,086
Drake stadium looks quite nice, I agree. I'm just not a flashy guy, I'd have to agree that flash and shiny is nice but it has no substance. I'd vote for build a student rec center before spending more than maintenance on the ARC.
Here's the 2017 attendance numbers
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf)
Quote from: vu72 on April 27, 2018, 07:16:32 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 27, 2018, 04:37:11 PM
Not a new a ARC. Just a physically improved ARC. Not $8 million total gut and rebuild like the Gentile Center. $1million to $2 million for new seating and some cosmetic improvements including improved concession locations. As you point out, the ARC can be electriv "when it is packed." But the place needs rejuvenation badly. When we check out some of the recruit highlights, the HS gyms some of them play in are much better lit and have newer seating. That helps attract fans to fill seats and even empty on a practice day (cuz they don't always use Hilltop for practice) or half empty during a game, it shows a prospect visible investment in the program's future.
Quote from: vu72 on April 27, 2018, 03:23:22 PM
I think this might be a good topic for Union Street Hoops, interviewing previous players about the impact "facilities" had on their decision. I think we fans may have a different view from players as to what facilities we have in mind. Many times players have said that playing at the ARC in front of a packed house is "electric". I wonder if playing in one of The Valley's larger venues would have the same impact. So we have a new locker room, an air-conditioned dedicated practice facility as well as uncomfortable chairs, limited bathrooms and limited food options in the ARC. Do those limitations impact a players decision? I wonder and just don't know. Would love to hear from players.
I'm guessing location is a big factor for some. Being close to Chicago for others (particularly Foreign players). Christian atmosphere for others, Coaches and playing style for others and of course playing time for most. Just curious whether or not the concerns voiced here are the same ones the athletes might have. Remember, our crummy Horizon league recruits regularly beat Missouri Valley teams prior to last year.
I think if you ask Mark L., $1 to $2 million is "perfume on a pig". The problem with the ARC go WAY beyond the seating and concessions. When it was built we didn't have many of the teams we have now. To do it correctly we need to get the Rec Center done first and then move folks out so it can be fixed once and for all. Perhaps some of the things you suggest could be done a head of time but I would rather see it done correctly including possible club seating etc. Pretty sure the lighting is just fine!
Sorry 72, although what you state makes sense in an environment where money is freeflowing and gifts are multiple and forthcoming, I disagree. This is Valpo. If the scenario you described is followed, we would be waiting for anything significant for another decade - maybe more. No good. No way. We are sitting on the cusp of do-or-die in the MVC. If we do not act now we will be buried in the MVC basement for years and we will be the object of derision for years to come. A small loan for, say, $2 million, right now, to do a cosmetic rejuvenation to our aged ARC would do wonders for our program, image and respect among fellow MVC members. It certainly would be a stop-gap step, but it would not only improve the physical environment, it would make a loud statement. Remember, despite our stellar winning tradition in the Mid-Con and HL, Loyola was picked over us to replace Creigton, and the reason was essentially their obvious commitment of resources to the MBB program. Sure the Chicago market was a factor, but we are also within earshot of Chicagoland as well. As I stated previously, we are NOT on a level playing field. We are at the bottom of the league in most categories. It is time to not only talk the talk. Valpo has to walk the walk. We made a commitment to one of the best mid-major conferences in America and the level of quality and competitiveness they represent. To approach this gift like we did going into the HL would be irresponsible.
As long as the changes you suggest don't have to redone via a full and complete renovation, I'm all for it! :thumbsup:
In 10 years the interim changes I was talking about very well might be blown away and permanent seating will be installed (like they did at Gentile) but that is a decade + away. But, right now, Valpo has to do everthing within its power gain as much ground as it can as fast as it can. The slower Valpo acts the behinder it gets.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 27, 2018, 09:02:57 PM
Looks like we came in at 146th in attendance in D1 last year.
Drake 2,843
Valpo 3,086
Drake stadium looks quite nice, I agree. I'm just not a flashy guy, I'd have to agree that flash and shiny is nice but it has no substance. I'd vote for build a student rec center before spending more than maintenance on the ARC.
Here's the 2017 attendance numbers
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2017.pdf)
Those attendance numbers are from 2016-17. The 2017-18 average home attendance was much worse and only a disappointing 2722. We had envisioned a boost in attendance by joining a top-10 conference and bringing in more attractive and stronger teams. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League, overall home attendance was 3666. In that first year in the Horizon League Valpo was only 5-4 at home, same as this year, yet attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to the home conference average this year of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves for improving attendance must be a focus of the off-season for the Athletics administration.
VU72 has addressed the big issues. For the next year or two, I am less concerned about the ARC than the university paying its credit card bill.
We all quote the phrase from the movie, "If you build it, they will come." But this isn't fiction and fun. Page 15 of the financial statements show that since 2010 the university has borrowed over $80 million to add academic buildings and dormitories. Many point out the truth that those factors influence recruitment.
GENTLEMEN: Our board has placed an $80 million bet on Heckler and his admissions staff. In addition to the $37 that was out for infrastructure on 2007. Have they told these 20p0 and 2014 lenders we will reach a 6,000 student goal and vouched for some pace for that on the loan documents? Heckler told us we will do that in the Masterplan brochure. I doubt we are that far out on a limb, but that is the general drift.
The note on PAGE 16 IS STARK and telling. It is vague about "certain covenants" and ratios that lenders have attached to the loans. BUT YOU CAN BET that the loans can be called in if Valpo doesn't hit the student enrollment and the Net tuition targets in the covenants.
If the lenders get restless, we won't be worried about Chairback seat comfort and concession stands very long.
What is the enrollment trend right now?........forecast for 2018-2019? Heckler could always leave VU and take with him a resume hat says he "built buildings x, y, and z." But who holds the bag and pays the bills?....the Board?.......are they individually liable in anyway to pay back the bonds if the university runs dry?
Endowment is nice as a long-term strategy, but won't offset a lack of cash from enrollment increases.
Those of us in Northwest Indiana are well aware of the example of our old rival, St. Joe's in Rensselaer. After going into debt to modernize the university's facilities, the school went bankrupt. Now the buildings stand empty and the only hope seems to be for a state university to have a regional campus. I appreciate the board demonstrating caution during this period when the total pool of students available in the US is declining due to birth rate from 18 years ago, a national push away from four year degrees, and national policies that discourage foreign students who have bolstered tuition revenues.
Humble opinion -
Some very good points. However, and seriously, Valpo academically is significantly better than St. Joseph's.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 28, 2018, 07:48:41 AM
Humble opinion -
Some very good points. However, and seriously, Valpo academically is significantly better than St. Joseph's.
USC, I enjoy your points. Makes me think outside of my more conservative nature. I hope any differing in opinions doesn't make you think I don't enjoy your posts.
However, "seriously" your use of "seriously" is somewhat condescending. As if we are your children in both intellect and years.
I believe that ML started posting some financials (thanks!) which better help us sound off with more facts. Admittedly my position hasn't changed and apparently the lending community is trepidation's with Universities as well considering several titanic changes ahead (population shift out of Midwest, less children proportionately and the student debt crisis).
If we are currently servicing ~$80,000,000 in debt which is 7-years old or less than spending is sort of out of the question.
I'm assuming these campaigns such as Forever Valpo (endowments) are leverage that future lenders want and need for us to get acceptable interest rates on future money.
Being a private faith based university is tough into today's ever increasing "semi atheist" mindset. Let's not create ourselves more headwinds in athletics debt where it's not critical. I'd say give us a few years in the MVC to see what type of change the bigger conference does to our athletics ledger and then consider minor to moderate ARC renovations. If we start getting $120,000 more per year in this new conference from multi bids and deep runs/tv money then allocate a portion of those proceeds to Reno.
I think that is right on track.
A couple more points. We have beat up on Harre for frugality. But in reality he started the building of the tennis courts and the new football field in 2006 and 2007. He didn't finish the track, but it is not fair to overlook the former. Does anyone remember the horrific state of the tennis courts by Lankenau? That was addressed with gifts. I just now recalled that the softball field was also built under Harre.
He also hired LaBarbera. Which is the greatest decision of them all. We have moved up twice now in athletic conference quality. So many sports are competitive now, especially baseball and tennis and now football! He will leave VU in much better shape and done so without much additional investment since 2008 ending of the Harre tenure.
Seeing that I started this thread and as a result there have been 687 responses and it has been read 67,519 times, I am so glad that we all now finally agree on what to do about facilities! Good work! :rotfl: ;)
We have finally nailed jello to a wall!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ePy_mnH774
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 28, 2018, 06:20:08 AM
Those of us in Northwest Indiana are well aware of the example of our old rival, St. Joe's in Rensselaer. After going into debt to modernize the university's facilities, the school went bankrupt. Now the buildings stand empty and the only hope seems to be for a state university to have a regional campus. I appreciate the board demonstrating caution during this period when the total pool of students available in the US is declining due to birth rate from 18 years ago, a national push away from four year degrees, and national policies that discourage foreign students who have bolstered tuition revenues.
You know, I can appreciate your perspective, but from an athletic facilities standpoint and a discussion revolving around same, I think you're comparing apples (SJC) to oranges (VU). Athletics at SJC were a D-II albatross, IMO; that is, while the College was responsible to provide either full or partial scholarships spread across 18 Varsity sports, including Football, as an enrollment draw, it would never be able to fully realize the nationwide media marketing benefit and reach that would be available to it if it were a D-I institution (see UMBC this year, see Butler post Final Four, see Valpo in 1999). The potential return on athletic facilities investment via increased enrollment is much stronger at Valpo than it could ever have been at SJC.
Just my $.02.
Yes, VU 72. Even among the 67,000 times this post was read.
By far the highlight is the emoji whatever that has the guy beating the "dead cow" since we had already beaten the dead horse. ;D :thumbsup:
goodie, my bad. comparing Valpo to St. Joseph's is an apples to orange comparison. Valpo to DePaul, Loyola, Butler, Bradley, Creighton and Drake are apples to apples.
also, great opportunities arise when you stay ahead of the game and you take a calculated risk. I would never suggest that we spend like the government. But with new trends coming up at a fast rate, you need to take actions in a proactive manner. Valpo is not moving fast enough - online classes and satellite campuses or locations are required these days.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 28, 2018, 06:01:05 PM
goodie, my bad. comparing Valpo to St. Joseph's is an apples to orange comparison. Valpo to DePaul, Loyola, Butler, Bradley, Creighton and Drake are apples to apples.
also, great opportunities arise when you stay ahead of the game and you take a calculated risk. I would never suggest that we spend like the government. But with new trends coming up at a fast rate, you need to take actions in a proactive manner. Valpo is not moving fast enough - online classes and satellite campuses or locations are required these days.
That's a good point, is online course offerings something that detracts or adds value for Valpo?
For some reason I have associates degrees in my mind as online level courses, but admittedly I've never researched.
Do good universities offer online courses or even degrees at a good clip? How is it perceived by the university community at VU?
I took a few online seminar courses when I did my MA.As for how they are perceived I do not know as I lived in town.
Online graduate classes are available at many fine universities, including cal tech, MIT and USC
And undergrad classes. If Valpo's strength is commitment in instruction, wouldn't you consider taking advantage of this?
And undergraduate classes. If the strength at Valpo is quality instruction, perhaps they should take advantage of online classes.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 28, 2018, 06:33:40 PM
And undergraduate classes. If the strength at Valpo is quality instruction, perhaps they should take advantage of online classes.
This has been covered before. Valpo offers more than 150 different options on-line.
https://www.valpo.edu/online/
That's good - they need to expand beyond nursing
FWIW UNI laid out a 5 year strategic plan this week. TLDR version of it is the entire athletic department getting a facelift. New track, soccer, softball facilities. Something line 50-60m in renovations to the football stadium (those weren't fully announced but plans in place.)
The other part is basketball related. A 25 plus million dollar practice facility with multiple gyms for basketball and volleyball. Weight rooms and training rooms specific to basketball and volleyball. Meeting spaces. Rentable spaces for making money back on it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/a354d0920f6fa389331030816ca55309.jpg)
As part of it the arena - which opened in 06 - is also slated for a new hanging video board, ribbon boards, all new banners and signage, and a new sound system.
All private funded. Almost completely funded from what I've heard
Current view and the west side facility and where it will be.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180429/fe8f1f5dac35c56b21692a966d9f069c.jpeg)
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All fully funded privately (i.e., football stadium and BB improvements) or just the BB part? Hard to believe that the $60-$70 million for the dome+ improvements could be all privately funded.
However, I am impressed by the narrow window of only 5 years for such a sizeable strategic initiative. That is aggressive.
All I'd like to see in Valpo's immediate future is visible ARC improvements that bring the arena out of the 1980s and give the appearance of being close to 21st century (and other MVC arena) standards. In the grand scheme of things, a Valpo investment like that is probably equivalent to annual facilities maintenance line items at NIU, Missou State or SIU. Old addage: The slower we go the behinder we get. To wit.....
So.... NIU is revamping EVERYTHING to enhance it's competitive standing in the MVC.
And now..... Loyola is getting a new $18.5 million Norville Practice facility (because the BB team had to use Gentile for practice. :o ) and this was announced before the F4 run. The bulk of the cost will be covered by a gift, but Loyola will add $1-$2 million from it's capital funds to complete the package.
Since moving from the Horizon League to the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) in 2013, Loyola has tried to continue competing against the other schools in the conference. The facility is another step in being competitive in the MVC, according to athletics director Steve Watson.
"This facility will bring us closer to practice space parity with our fellow Missouri Valley Conference institutions, increasing our competitiveness, improving our recruitment and enhancing our athletics program," Watson said in a press release.
http://loyolaphoenix.com/2018/02/loyola-build-18-5-million-athletics-practice-facility/
In addition..... at Missouri State " Among the projects underway are the improved student section east side to Plaster Sports Complex and the construction of both the Betty and Bobby Allison North and South Stadiums for soccer, track, field hockey and lacrosse use.
And Evansville is being proactive as well..... UE is proceeding with the strategy to move women's basketball to the Carson Center beginning with the 2017-18 season, is planning renovations for multisport use inside the old National Guard Armory and has begun preliminary designs for a "transformational" $1 million sports performance center, athletic director Mark Spencer said.
http://archive.courierpress.com/sports/college/evansville/ue-athletic-department-officials-busy-planning-multiple-facility-upgrades-3649413e-dc2e-3fdb-e053-01-385325311.html
Illinois State, too, is going forward toward a $25 million indoor practice facility that is positioned to help all sports.... "The facility is No. 1 on our wish list, and it's what we lead with when talking with donors as part of the campus (fundraising) campaign," added Lyons. "We're probably going to have to fund the majority of this building because it's not our turn on campus to use many resources."
"There are other priorities on campus and we understand that, so we're probably going to have to do the majority of this privately. We are trying to find those individuals or corporations, who might be interested in helping us do that. It's not an easy thing to do, but we're trying to find that anchor, that lead gift, that will give us the momentum to really push forward."
http://wglt.org/post/indoor-practice-facility-tops-wish-list-isu-athletics#stream/0
Back on April 23rd in the Recruiting 2019 string I posted the questions below. The items I dropped in above are, in part, why I asked those questions in the first place.
In the HL, we could offset the commuter schools with our great campus and academic environment. Some may have had good arenas, but the mix was not that attractive. So we could lure the kids we wanted.
Not so in the MVC. Here we have major destination campuses and well thought of private institutions in good environments with pretty solid fan bases. We had a great winning tradition in the past at a level that is a few steps below where we are now. But that was then. What do we have that helps us compensate for the recruiting deficits we face against our new MVC rivals? By deficits I mean a smaller, less than wealthy alumni base that is not rabidly sports-minded and the worst athletic facilties across the board in the MVC.
Another way to ask this question is: have we reached the Peter Principle (advanced to the level of our incompetence)? Are we finally at a point where we are out of our league and no matter what we do (given the current administration position) we cannot overcome our liabilities?
The analogy that comes to mind is that Valpo wanted desparately to be invited to the prom, and finally got that invitation, only to realize after the fact that it couldn't afford the formalware to participate in the festivities like all the others.
Everything I listed outside of the major dome renovation will be private funded. I've heard much of the dome plans are private as well. The rough numbers I've heard bounced around,and nearly 100% confirmed by our AD, are about 100m for everything and about 60m-70m private funding through donors and naming rights and so on and trying to get more.
The dome is, from what I've heard multiple places, lookin to use a tourism grant from the state of Iowa due to how everyone in the state knows what it is and it is a destination for so many events during the year. Concerts, trade shows, national wrestling meets, athletic camps, state football semifinal and finals. It's used almost all the time and UNI sponsored events play just a small roll in that. Details yet to be ironed out, which is why all details aren't known but engineering and prints are done for it. Basically rebuilding the whole building in its place.
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Quote from: crusadermoe on April 27, 2018, 11:43:30 PMThe note on PAGE 16 IS STARK and telling. It is vague about "certain covenants" and ratios that lenders have attached to the loans. BUT YOU CAN BET that the loans can be called in if Valpo doesn't hit the student enrollment and the Net tuition targets in the covenants.
So this is what is terrifying about using debt to build. Let's face it, if you're about to have your loans get called in because you don't have enough students, the temptation to lower your admission standards is huge. And when your reputation goes out the window, then...
Hey moderator, we have some good dialog going about the university as a whole. Maybe that doesn't belong on the "facilities" thread any more because most of the facilities thread is focused more tightly on athletics facilities and how they impact our MVC competitiveness. #62 really outlined a key question with great detail.
Would you mind moving comment by MJ and the other the university-wide debt and overall facilities comments to a new or current thread under "General University". Perhaps call it Finances or put in under "Enrollment" since all the facilities decisions relate in some way to enrollment.
Quote from: UNIFTW on April 29, 2018, 06:49:29 PM
Everything I listed outside of the major dome renovation will be private funded. I've heard much of the dome plans are private as well. The rough numbers I've heard bounced around,and nearly 100% confirmed by our AD, are about 100m for everything and about 60m-70m private funding through donors and naming rights and so on and trying to get more.
The dome is, from what I've heard multiple places, lookin to use a tourism grant from the state of Iowa due to how everyone in the state knows what it is and it is a destination for so many events during the year. Concerts, trade shows, national wrestling meets, athletic camps, state football semifinal and finals. It's used almost all the time and UNI sponsored events play just a small roll in that. Details yet to be ironed out, which is why all details aren't known but engineering and prints are done for it. Basically rebuilding the whole building in its place.
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Thanks for sharing UNI. Keep the updates flowing please!
Quote from: mj on April 29, 2018, 07:04:57 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on April 27, 2018, 11:43:30 PMThe note on PAGE 16 IS STARK and telling. It is vague about "certain covenants" and ratios that lenders have attached to the loans. BUT YOU CAN BET that the loans can be called in if Valpo doesn't hit the student enrollment and the Net tuition targets in the covenants.
So this is what is terrifying about using debt to build. Let's face it, if you're about to have your loans get called in because you don't have enough students, the temptation to lower your admission standards is huge. And when your reputation goes out the window, then...
Let's dial back on the hyperbole here. Covenants are used by lenders to manage their financial risk should the borrower be unable to repay the money. It would be very unusual for a loan covenant to specify the number of students or the net tuition target. Usually, a loan covenant would have a loan to value ratio, or some kind of debt service coverage guarantee. So for an institution like Valpo, it might cap the total amount of debt compared to the current cash total value of the endowment. This would prevent Valpo from taking out a ridiculous a new loan (think hundreds of millions dollars of additional loans) without the original lender being paid back first. It is possible that a covenant would specify that the total net annual operating loss cannot exceed a certain value, yet Valpo is unlikely to be anywhere close to that second limit, and even then it would be tied to total operations, not tuition targets.
We can debate this back and forth and back again, argue fiscal policy, etc. Bottom line is this: Do you trust the admin to handle this? If yes, no worries. If not, then that's a whole new ballgame.
I wish there was a way, and if there it please someone tell me, to block an entire thread from showing up on my screen.
Quote from: M on April 30, 2018, 11:57:49 AM
I wish there was a way, and if there it please someone tell me, to block an entire thread from showing up on my screen.
I use the "mark as read" method. I try to read everything but if the thread in general doesn't interest me than every time it comes up I mark the new posts "as read."
Bond documents from UNI in 2004 show that the McLeod Center was anticipated to cost $21 million, with $10 million borrowed, $9.25 million fundraised and the remainder coming from existing university funds. If what UNIFTW is reporting is correct, then UNI's new plans represent a huge increase in both fundraising and in the scope of athletic facility costs.
Numbers are from our AD when he unveiled the plan last week, as well as some very connected to the department.
Yes our funding and donation levels have gone up probably 10-20 fold. Look at our ad success pre 04 and then post 04 across the board. In 2004 we were 20 years into being D1 and didn't really operate or deserve to be D1. We were paying out basketball coach less than 150k. It's now over a million after everything is added in and it's 100% private funded. B
Our basketball coaches salaries are 100% private. Wrestling is 100% endowed. Football is almost fully private. Volleyball and women's basketball are mostly private.
Our scholarship club is setting record donations every year. Last week alone we had a one night auction dinner that raised over a quarter million dollars in just a few hours. Over a millions raised on 2018 alone last I had heard.
We have big donors and donors that want to have names on things. 2004 UNI wouldn't recognize 2018 UNI as the same university.
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Quote from: UNIFTW on April 30, 2018, 05:42:41 PM
Numbers are from our AD when he unveiled the plan last week, as well as some very connected to the department.
Yes our funding and donation levels have gone up probably 10-20 fold. Look at our ad success pre 04 and then post 04 across the board. In 2004 we were 20 years into being D1 and didn't really operate or deserve to be D1. We were paying out basketball coach less than 150k. It's now over a million after everything is added in and it's 100% private funded. B
Our basketball coaches salaries are 100% private. Wrestling is 100% endowed. Football is almost fully private. Volleyball and women's basketball are mostly private.
Our scholarship club is setting record donations every year. Last week alone we had a one night auction dinner that raised over a quarter million dollars in just a few hours. Over a millions raised on 2018 alone last I had heard.
We have big donors and donors that want to have names on things. 2004 UNI wouldn't recognize 2018 UNI as the same university.
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Painting with broad strokes...are your donors exclusively alumni? Or are they from the surrounding community / business leaders?
Mostly almost exclusively (I'd guess) alumni or very close ties to someone who went to UNI. Business that do a fantastic job donating that are owned and run by UNI alums. We have some pretty big alumni across the upper Midwest - and within the Cedar Valley.
Thanks to our strong business and cpa programs we have some people who have started some successful business (Goose Island for instance) or have multiple people on boards and higher positions at places like Hy Vee (not sure if that means anything to you over there but it's a huge thing around Iowa, SD, MO, MN, and NE) and Casey's.
That isn't to say we don't have good sized, even smaller donors, who have little to no connection to UNI but I'd guess the vast majority are strong ties.
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That's great for UNI. Always good news when a conference mate is on solid footing, as most of the MVC is. Hard to compare them and us, however, for three simple reasons.
1.State
2.School
3.Money
Don't get me wrong, doesn't mean UNI, or ISUr, etc doesn't deserve their success. You still have to recruit, play, and win. But the money for facilities is usually there regardless. (See State, Chicago)
That's an uneducated post. UNI gets very little state funding. Less and less every year on top of it. In fact, our donations set records every year because we push them too because our state funding is at an all time low and decreasing every year. You can get nearly 3 years of school at UNI for 1 year at Valpo. Money coming into the university from that aspect isn't even close. Couple that with something line 80% of UNI students living off campus and UNI loses 8,000 per student off campus and only gets tuition and fees which is less than 9,000 per student. On average Valpo is bringing in over 60,000,000 more tuition dollars a year than UNI is.
If the state was paying for the upgrades, sure you'd have a point. But they aren't. Our AD said that outside of a tourism grant for the dome no state or university money is in the plans to be used. The tourism grant comes from the department of tourism. Not the Iowa Board of regents that oversees UNI, Iowa and Iowa State or general state university funds from the state of Iowa. The BOR and Iowa have put a hault in every existing project in Iowa due to funding issues that have yet to be figured out in the state government at all 3 universities. The dome renovations would happen because it draws in over 100,000 unique patrons each year to events that are not university sponsored. It's used by the state athletic association. It's used for concerts for pretty big names. It's used for numerous trade shows (boat/RV, craft, home renovation, etc.). It's used for officially sponsored USA Wrestling wrestling tournaments. Its rented out to other colleges for use. It's rented to high schools for use. It's used for dozens and dozens of things and brings people from literally every county in Iowa every year for non UNI events. It is a tourist destination in that regard. If that grant doesn't happen the planned upgrades will be scaled back to fit those that can be privately funded.
So the real difference between UNI and Valpo when it comes to facility upgrades is alumni and donors stepping up at one place and afraid to at the other because of....I'm not sure even with reading this thread. UNI donors have decided that our athletic department, our student athletes, are worth investing in. We have had 32 players in the NFL the last 15 years. The publicity we get from those guys is immeasurable. The top 10 rankings and multiple NCAA tournament wins is immeasurable for value added. Increase in applications. Increase in donations. Increase in quality of applicants.
What UNI, and its donors, have learned since 2004 is that athletics is the best marketing tool you have as a university unless you are an Ivy or Patriot level level academic institution or a major R1. There is copious amounts of research to back that up.
There's a reason UNIs success followed the investment in the McLeod Center. It's a bit of chicken and egg. It doesn't promise better results, better recruits, better coaches, better donations but it sure doesn't hurt. If it didn't work people wouldn't be doing it. When the McLeod Center was being planned and fund raised UNI was a single digit win basketball team. Had been for 20 years sans 1991.
You can invest nothing in athletics and have some success but probably not a ton. The ad hoc backing to them keeping funding low is "see results don't show we should spend more. We aren't even good".
It's not just investing in facilities to be used in game days. It's investing in facilities to help the student athletes be better students and better citizens of the university and community during and after their time on campus.
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I forgot to add 2 points
1. It's a money making investment over its lifetime. That's something out AD pointed out. Naming rights pay for years. Get renewed. More naming rights come out of it. Properly built facilities have spaces to be rented out for functions. Again, money making opportunities. Also in that getting people on campus and getting them involved in ways they may not have otherwise been. Creating new fans and donors.
2. By moving basketball and volleyball practices out of the general rec center courts and weight rooms you are creating more opportunities for the non athlete population. More classes can be scheduled. More time open for student use. It opens up many possibilities in the rec center.
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Living in the Des Moines area, UNI alums provide much support and pride in their athletics, and generally the state schools in Iowa take high school and college sports very seriously. Going to high school games here is like reliving a Gil Thorp comic strip.
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 10:13:06 AM
That's an uneducated post. UNI gets very little state funding. Less and less every year on top of it. In fact, our donations set records every year because we push them too because our state funding is at an all time low and decreasing every year. You can get nearly 3 years of school at UNI for 1 year at Valpo. Money coming into the university from that aspect isn't even close. Couple that with something line 80% of UNI students living off campus and UNI loses 8,000 per student off campus and only gets tuition and fees which is less than 9,000 per student. On average Valpo is bringing in over 60,000,000 more tuition dollars a year than UNI is.
I'm not sure about the details about funding of the athletic department at UNI, or how much of student fees pay anything for salaries, administration, facility upkeep and the like. However, a cursory google search showed that UNI was awarded $83.2M in general aid from the State of Iowa in FY 2014. http://www.iowahouserepublicans.com/wp-content/uploads/Hein-Capitol-Update.pdf (http://www.iowahouserepublicans.com/wp-content/uploads/Hein-Capitol-Update.pdf) Someone could find other sources, but this one looks like it is in the ballpark. The total budget for UNI, ISU and UI from the State of Iowa was nearly $500M even this past year, and historically the universities operated on a 20/40/40 split of state allocations. Recall as well that UNI has about three times as many students.
Net tuition and fees at Valpo in the year ended 2016 (according to the annual report) was $76.4M. (This is stated tuition and fees less "unfunded" tuition awards and scholarships granted.). So it is not remotely possible that Valpo is bringing in $60M more tuition dollars than UNI, at least with the state funding included.
By the way UNI is a very fine institution. I have ton of respect for the school and the programs there. However, my main point is that they do get substantial state support.
Just tuition at Valpo is 36,000. At UNI it is 7,000. Valpo has roughly 4600 students per google. UNI has 10,000.
How many Valpo students live off campus? For every student on campus add in another 10k for that expense. UNI has the extreme majority off campus. About 7-8000 live off campus.
That's a money loss for UNI.
Again state money has nothing to do with these upgrades and buildings. It's UNI fans and alumni going "we get it. We want the best for our student athletes. WE will take the responsibility to fund it. We won't wait for the university to pay for it. We won't wait for the state to pay for it. WE will pay for it.
Valpo fans and alumni have made it clear, on here and through donations, that you don't have the support to do anything like this. Southern Illinois lost 44 million dollars in state funding in the last half decade. They still found donors and ways to renovate their arena and build a brand new football stadium.
This isn't about state money. Loyola isn't getting state money. Drake didn't get state money for their practice facility. Creighton has no state money for their facilities.
This is donors going "we want to push our university forward. We want to grow. Be better. How can we help?" If Valpo doesn't have that and can't get that it confirms every MVC fans fears about Valpo being added to the MVC. It's just another Evansville.
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It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.
Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.
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Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 12:55:47 PMIf Valpo doesn't have that and can't get that it confirms every MVC fans fears about Valpo being added to the MVC. It's just another Evansville.
You sound like a guy with a good basketball team! You've been in The Valley for many years. We have been in for one. After losing three starters including an NBA pick, and then losing our best remaining player half way into the season, you punished the new kid by a whopping five points per game. We'll see how you feel after this next year.
And as for tuition, there is a reason kids pay 30,000 more at Valpo than at UNI. First it is private and not state supported. I think you can figure out the other factor.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpjpXMFPshSYGLm/giphy.gif)
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 12:59:51 PM
It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.
Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.
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State schools and private are two different animals. Although they contend in the sports arena, I am not sure that Valpo and UNI contend a lot for the students. This is not a comment on level of education, because that would be silly to argue over.
When I was at VU in 2001 I paid approximately 50% of full asking price by being an athlete and other academic scholarships. In today's scenario that would be $18,000/year.
UNI you said was $7,000/year? Let's add in the state subsidies reported to be $83.2 million in 2014 and divide the number of students. That could mean the state is off setting $8,320/student/year in 2014.
$7,000 tuition
$8,320 subsidies$15,320/studentThis is not likely the exact number, just as VU isn't taking in $18,000 on every student. So admittedly we continue to discuss hypotheticals.
UNI
-has roughly 6,000 more paying students
-is in a market 2x as big as Valparaiso
-has municipal arenas that they share and get state money on
-has a legit football program with big time alumniI want you guys to thrive, that means we get to compete at higher and higher levels. I think you will find that most of us are happy to see UNI succeed on the arena front and sports programs in general.
Quote from: vu72 on May 01, 2018, 01:24:07 PM
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 12:55:47 PMIf Valpo doesn't have that and can't get that it confirms every MVC fans fears about Valpo being added to the MVC. It's just another Evansville.
You sound like a guy with a good basketball team! You've been in The Valley for many years. We have been in for one. After losing three starters including an NBA pick, and then losing our best remaining player half way into the season, you punished the new kid by a whopping five points per game. We'll see how you feel after this next year.
And as for tuition, there is a reason kids pay 30,000 more at Valpo than at UNI. First it is private and not state supported. I think you can figure out the other factor.
Education quality isn't any different. There is a D3 13 miles north UNI that 40k a year. I promise you it's not worth it. No one is going to be picking between someone and go "oh he went to Valpo and he want to Northern Iowa. That's a duh". Nope.
There are about 20 schools that works for. Valpo isn't one. Nor is UNI.
That is still ignoring that all of these upgrades are 100% private funding. If Valpo had the support for a 25m practice facility there wouldn't be a thread that is YEARS long debating of facilities are even worth investing in at all beyond bare minimum maintenance.
Being poor on your first MVC go around isn't a reason to go "it was our first year, in 30 years we will have a facility." You dominated the HL for a decade. Shouldn't your fan base already be big and strong? Shouldn't the donors already be there? Wasn't a selling point the strength of the fan base and donors?
I'm not saying everyone needs a multi level practice facility or anything close to that. What I saw as an interesting debate is donor support and why something couldn't come through that avenue rather than simply waiting for university funds be be available - which isn't going to happen at any non major P5 school.
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I have a Valpo classmate who also has two sons at Valpo now, although one is graduating shortly. He and his wife are far from wealthy. What they discovered is that comparing the net cost of going to Valpo versus state schools (they live in Illinois) is very similar. Given the academics at Valpo, the decision was very easy.
Illinois is tough to compare in state costs too. It is cheaper for someone to pay 40,000 out of state tuition at Iowa than in state at Illinois. It's why UIowa is like 48% Illinois students.
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And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.
David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.
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And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.
David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.
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I thought Wartburg was a really good school! hmm...
We're another Evansville now? I think you should check our record over the past few years before you say that. Has Evansville beaten the likes of Oregon State Rhode Island (twice) Murray State and Belmont? Did Evansville ever take a #1 seed to the mat like we did against Oregon in 15-16? Has Evansville beaten Alabama Florida State St Mary's and BYU twice in tournaments? Has Evansville produced an all American and NBA Draft pick and several players playing at some of Europe's highest levels? Has Evansville recently had their coach poached by a P5 school? Has Evansville had to deal with the kind of adversity and challenges we have since Peters senior year; and if they have, would the team have rallied around Simmons the way ours rallied around Lottich? I think not. We are decidedly not another Evansville at least not in the way you conceive of Evansville. I would say we are closer to another UNI (hopefully without an epic choke like the Panthers suffered a couple of Marches ago) has the program recovered from that? It sure doesn't look like it. It's understandable losses like that hang around for quite awhile probably a coach's entire career. The comebacks we made against your Panthers this year show that a million bucks can buy many things but it can't buy a coach that knows how to beat a trapping press.
All of this said, I don't think it's prudent to summarily discard what UNIFTW says. He raises a great point about the importance of commitment and buy in by the whole community. It takes a village. Luckily UNI has like 2.5-3 times the alumni base from which to draw as well as a larger metropolitan area and less competition for peoples' entertainment dollars (I'd imagine you'd struggle quite a bit too if UNI were located within an hour of one of America's largest cities. We need both a fanbase and an administration that is more passionate about sports. We have said this ad nauseum on this board. We need facility upgrades to enhance our ability to compete and we need them soon. We know this, but coming here and complaining to us about the same complaints we all have and comparing our beloved program to a program you regard as lower than dirt isn't going to curry much favor with a fanbase passionate enough to have such an active discussion board in the middle of May. You need to consider also that a fair number of people who post here are young alumni still paying off loans and establishing themselves. Our power to donate more will come and you can bet that most of the young alumni on this board will use it.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 01, 2018, 01:41:08 PM
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 12:59:51 PM
It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.
Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.
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State schools and private are two different animals. Although they contend in the sports arena, I am not sure that Valpo and UNI contend a lot for the students. This is not a comment on level of education, because that would be silly to argue over.
When I was at VU in 2001 I paid approximately 50% of full asking price by being an athlete and other academic scholarships. In today's scenario that would be $18,000/year.
UNI you said was $7,000/year? Let's add in the state subsidies reported to be $83.2 million in 2014 and divide the number of students. That could mean the state is off setting $8,320/student/year in 2014.
$7,000 tuition
$8,320 subsidies
$15,320/student
This is not likely the exact number, just as VU isn't taking in $18,000 on every student. So admittedly we continue to discuss hypotheticals.
UNI
-has roughly 6,000 more paying students
-is in a market 2x as big as Valparaiso
-has municipal arenas that they share and get state money on
-has a legit football program with big time alumni
I want you guys to thrive, that means we get to compete at higher and higher levels. I think you will find that most of us are happy to see UNI succeed on the arena front and sports programs in general.
As I was thinking about this and you numbers. Why do you get to use half Valpo tuition for your numbers but not what most UNI students probably pay in just tuition - let's call it's half as well. That takes UNIs number down to 11,000 to your 18,000.
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When UNI gets itself a Good Morning America Weatherperson, we'll talk.
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 02:06:17 PM
And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.
David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.
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UNIFTW I am glad you reignited a good conversation to help some of us see from a state school perspective. Please keep contributing, it is appreciated. Even if we disagree, it's still great to ignore politics on these forums!!!
I think you will find that many of us agree with your points on enthusiastic and willing donors. But I don't think we can look past the fact that we graduated 50%+ less alumni every single year than UNI does. We have been extremely lucky to have director level alumni from some major American corporations that have helped build our academic and student buildings. These were hands down our biggest needs or else we might have been able to steer their generosity into athletics more after our Sweet 16 run.
You commonly go back to 2004 as a pivotal year for UNI. Back at this time, how were the academic buildings (age / quality of structure) and other critical university infrastructure for UNI? I am uncertain, but I might imagine that if you have indeed invested in large athletics programs since that time you either had less needs on campus infrastructure OR just flat out had 2-3x the donations and income (state subsidies or otherwise).
Here is where we run into a brick wall. Valpo did not invest in infrastructure for decades and our academic buildings, physical plant and student centers were woefully behind the times. We lost $100 million just investing in non-athletic infrastructure from 1990 - 2015. Sadly, this was a time when our sports programs were excelling (basketball mostly) and we lost the momentum to take the alumni donations and put them into sports.
Is it possible UNI had less need for physical plant and infrastructure (non athletic) at the times they invested in the sports program? Just want to get your take on that concept.
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 01, 2018, 02:27:32 PM
I thought Wartburg was a really good school! hmm...
It is. Where is that Wartburg piece of paper going to get you that UNI isn't? Name me on company anywhere in the world that will go "Oh, Wartburg. Impressive. You're way more qualified than this person from UNI." It won't happen. Ever. For any degree. I'm about to graduate with my Masters in Organizational Development and Strategic Leadership with an emphasis in supply chain management. I'll be 3 classes from an MBA and will probably add that on as well next year, from an NAIA in Cedar Rapids. Undergrad tuition there is 36k. I pay $600 per credit hour for my masters. It's a 36 credit program. Where is this degree going to get me that the same degree from UNI - which is one of the best business schools in the country...not top by any means but it is very well known and ranked...? Not a single place. The only reason I'm not getting it from UNI is distance.
I started at Wartburg. I feel pretty confident speaking about the quality of education there. It's not better than UNI.
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Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 01, 2018, 02:54:58 PM
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 02:06:17 PM
And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.
David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.
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UNIFTW I am glad you reignited a good conversation to help some of us see from a state school perspective. Please keep contributing, it is appreciated. Even if we disagree, it's still great to ignore politics on these forums!!!
I think you will find that many of us agree with your points on enthusiastic and willing donors. But I don't think we can look past the fact that we graduated 50%+ less alumni every single year than UNI does. We have been extremely lucky to have director level alumni from some major American corporations that have helped build our academic and student buildings. These were hands down our biggest needs or else we might have been able to steer their generosity into athletics more after our Sweet 16 run.
You commonly go back to 2004 as a pivotal year for UNI. Back at this time, how were the academic buildings (age / quality of structure) and other critical university infrastructure for UNI? I am uncertain, but I might imagine that if you have indeed invested in large athletics programs since that time you either had less needs on campus infrastructure OR just flat out had 2-3x the donations and income (state subsidies or otherwise).
Here is where we run into a brick wall. Valpo did not invest in infrastructure for decades and our academic buildings, physical plant and student centers were woefully behind the times. We lost $100 million just investing in non-athletic infrastructure from 1990 - 2015. Sadly, this was a time when our sports programs were excelling (basketball mostly) and we lost the momentum to take the alumni donations and put them into sports.
Is it possible UNI had less need for physical plant and infrastructure (non athletic) at the times they invested in the sports program? Just want to get your take on that concept.
Our campus in 2004 wasn't great. Since 2004 almost all of it has been renovated, much of it significantly. We've torn buildings down and rebuilt them since 04. Gutted entire buildings and redone them. Turned an old gym into a state of the art IT department and computer engineering/sciences building. Hell, I graduated in 2010 and moved out of Cedar Falls in fall 2013 after buying a house less than a mile from campus in 2008 and selling it when I moved. I go back now and I can't believe what the campus looks like. I'm on my phone so I can't really go through all of them but anyone who left campus in 2004 wouldn't believe what it looked like when the incoming freshman that year would graduate with. Same with that class and the class of 2012. Sure from the university side of it that can be attributed to state money being spent - but again we are a state university. That is our stake holder spending money. The alumni association is setting record donations. The performing arts center is setting record donations and getting bigger and bigger events on campus every year. Scholarship club records every year. Yes we have more alumni but *start mostly sarcastic sentence* our alums are coming from a piss poor educational directional school with cheap education and standards. We don't get any good jobs. Imagine what someone that also gets a psychology degree makes when they lay 36,000 for it. Imagine what that must be worth for salary.
UNI hasn't had the money - contrary to this idea that UNI is just rolling in state money WHICH IT ISN'T AND NEVER HAS BEEN - prior to the university determining waiting for the money to be available wasn't the right move. Presidents, which we have had 3 of since the , and athletic directors, also 3, have all made it their number one priority to engage alumni. Encourage donations. Get people involved. It is priority #1 in many ways for every part of the university.
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Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 02:48:19 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 01, 2018, 01:41:08 PM
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 12:59:51 PM
It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.
Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.
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State schools and private are two different animals. Although they contend in the sports arena, I am not sure that Valpo and UNI contend a lot for the students. This is not a comment on level of education, because that would be silly to argue over.
When I was at VU in 2001 I paid approximately 50% of full asking price by being an athlete and other academic scholarships. In today's scenario that would be $18,000/year.
UNI you said was $7,000/year? Let's add in the state subsidies reported to be $83.2 million in 2014 and divide the number of students. That could mean the state is off setting $8,320/student/year in 2014.
$7,000 tuition
$8,320 subsidies
$15,320/student
This is not likely the exact number, just as VU isn't taking in $18,000 on every student. So admittedly we continue to discuss hypotheticals.
UNI
-has roughly 6,000 more paying students
-is in a market 2x as big as Valparaiso
-has municipal arenas that they share and get state money on
-has a legit football program with big time alumni
I want you guys to thrive, that means we get to compete at higher and higher levels. I think you will find that most of us are happy to see UNI succeed on the arena front and sports programs in general.
As I was thinking about this and you numbers. Why do you get to use half Valpo tuition for your numbers but not what most UNI students probably pay in just tuition - let's call it's half as well. That takes UNIs number down to 11,000 to your 18,000.
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Perhaps because Valpo's endowment is at least twice as large as UNI's and growing substantially with the current drive. (2016 numbers: UNI $107.6 million. Valpo $235.2 million.)
Based on published enrollment at UNI, that is an endowment equal to $9,021 per student. Valpo, on the same calculation is equal to $51,806 per student.
And UNIs endowment has doubled in the last 15 years (IIRC).
That also doesn't fit that narrative that alumni can't donate because they are riddled with student loan debt.
Both come to covering one years tuition/board plus about 2k.
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Just to add some data to this conversation.
Here is what it actually costs to go to a school on average based on student's family income. You can look up over 1,500 schools, including Valpo and UNI. The price difference is about $4,000 per year, for all but the wealthiest students.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges (https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges)
And here is how much various state schools are subsidizing their athletic departments with university funds. This is something that private schools do as well, but of course the difference is that at a private school all the money is coming from students and donors, whereas at a state school you do have that third input of taxpayer money.
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/)
For the second link, the Total Allocated column shows the amount of University subsidy going to athletics.
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 03:18:14 PM
And UNIs endowment has doubled in the last 15 years (IIRC).
That also doesn't fit that narrative that alumni can't donate because they are riddled with student loan debt.
Both come to covering one years tuition/board plus about 2k.
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That means your generous alumni have given about $50 million to the endowment in 15 years? We have raised $180 million since the campaign started officially in September of 2016.
The reference to young alumni was more directed at motivation. Many of our older alums have focused their giving to academic pursuits. Lots of new and fabulous academic buildings, just not a lot of fabulous athletic buildings--yet. Still, the University has invested a great deal in the future of Valpo athletics particularly via the acquisition of an adjacent 30+ acre former hospital site, less than 5 years ago, which will be used exclusively for athletics.
Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.
Quote from: ml2 on May 01, 2018, 03:25:22 PM
Just to add some data to this conversation.
Here is what it actually costs to go to a school on average based on student's family income. You can look up over 1,500 schools, including Valpo and UNI. The price difference is about $4,000 per year, for all but the wealthiest students.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges (https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges)
And here is how much various state schools are subsidizing their athletic departments with university funds. This is something that private schools do as well, but of course the difference is that at a private school all the money is coming from students and donors, whereas at a state school you do have that third input of taxpayer money.
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/)
Interesting. The first link shows young Valpo alums riddled with debt and can't donate are actually in the same boat as UNI alums. Good for the goose but not gander argument?
The second kind is one I debunk frequently. The total UNI reports is slightly different than everyone else in that the total is almost all for scholarships. UNI would give that money out to the general student population if it didn't to athletics. Where UNI differs from most is UNI charges the athletic department for scholarships and treats that as a separate line item. Almost every other school lumps athletic scholarships in with the total scholarship line. What that means is they give it to the AD to "support the AD" and it literally goes right back to the university to pay the scholarship bill. Our AD confirmed that last week in the unveil of the plan as well. It's a hilariously back asswarda way of doing it. Makes UNI an easy target for discussions such as this and about 10 people understand what the number actually represents, which leads to a ton of misinformation spread and used against the athletic department.
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Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 01, 2018, 03:49:15 PM
Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.
Yes. As well as running cable out there for television. My understanding is that we committed to adding the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball when we joined the Valley.
Quote from: vu72 on May 01, 2018, 03:59:14 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 01, 2018, 03:49:15 PM
Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.
Yes. As well as running cable out there for television. My understanding is that we committed to adding the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball when we joined the Valley.
IIRC per the ESPN agreement you don't have a choice. I believe the agreement the MVC has is all facilities must have the ability to broadcast at HD levels.
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Quote from: vu72 on May 01, 2018, 03:59:14 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 01, 2018, 03:49:15 PM
Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.
Yes. As well as running cable out there for television. My understanding is that we committed to adding the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball when we joined the Valley.
IIRC per the ESPN agreement you don't have a choice. I believe the agreement the MVC has is all facilities must have the ability to broadcast at HD levels.
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UNI has to be great - I mean it is adjacent to beautiful Waterloo!
As opposed to Gary?
I'm not sure how this turned into wanting to :censored: on UNI. I never once questioned Valpos education - simply that for a psych major the 36k vs 7k seems a bit silly. That was first thrown at me for UNI being cheap because it sucks.
I was attempting to have a dialogue about facilities and it instantly got shifted by a very defensive mob mentality to "UNI get state money so it can't be compared" when everything I brought up was based on donors paying for it.
Then it turns into a UNI is next to a town historically known for being filled with crime so by proxy through a joke I'll say UNI sucks.
I guess I'll let you have your echo chamber of "welp, our president just doesn't want it done and there's nothing to we can do about it"
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Really, :censored: is censored? Wow.
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Dude,
you are a state run university and get state dollars. It's both a fact and a factor, though not the only one. Also, when it comes to facilities et al it's partially a "I'm the only one that can say anything about my family" situation. Noone ever wins going onto another fan's message board to defend their school's honor and trying to get into a pissing contest about which schools' better.
This was a doomed thread from the start. UNI has had great success fundraising, Valpo needs more focus on athletics BUT it's still not an apples to apples comparison for LOTS of reasons.
Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and :censored: went downhill fast.
Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have.
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Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 05:35:12 PM
Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and :censored: went downhill fast.
Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have.
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In terms of facilities, where do you feel UNI is right now vs the rest of the MVC?
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 05:35:12 PM
Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and :censored: went downhill fast.
Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have.
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Why are you offended? Several of us had an open dialogue. I don't travel onto competitors forums because I don't have thick skin. You're fine, ignore the haters.
You informed us well of UNI's intensions and it's aporeciated.
You're the one who came on here compared us to Evansville a program that gets absolutely zero respect from the MVC and is constantly looked down upon and blamed for the conference's ills. Meanwhile we actually did better than Loyola in their first year despite a ton of adversity. We have shown plenty of evidence that we have the ability to be and will be a good addition to the MVC.
I will never take a shot at another school but I will take a shot at another program when the program I support is attacked first. Your program is one I really respect but it's not like you're in the best position right now although that appears to be changing. I'm glad that UNI has such a dedicated alumni base and such great facilities but you do have a lot of factors going for you that we don't and that can't be denied. Some of it is our fault (too conservative prioritized other pursuits) but it's not like we haven't shown any dedication whatsoever it's just not as fast as we'd all like. The big problem is that you come on here seeking discussion but if someone gives you an answer you don't like you take shots and walk around acting like UNI just made a Final 4 or got an AAC invite. That doesn't make your points wrong it's just that there's a better more civil way to discuss these issues than going onto a rival board and poking Ys with the same stick that's been stuck in our eyes for decades. Youhave a lot to be proud of as a UNI fan and I wish your program much success when they are out there kicking butt in the nonconference and hopefully competing for an at large alongside Valpo.
It's clear that we are extreamly defensive about the quality of our school. UNIFTW never questioned our school's quality, and we, in uber-defensive mode, lost sight of his key point: THE DEFERENCE BETWEEN UNI AND VALPO IS THE THE INTENSITY AND ATHLETIC FOCUS OF ALUMNI SUPPORT.
If we had even 50% of that, we'd at least have a rejuvenated (not necessarily rebuilt) ARC and other facility upgrades that let us not only talk the talk but walk the walk. His reference to "another Evansville" was a statement of how a once great program came into the MVC and couldn't perform to MVC standards. Loyola was looking the same way, buy, evidently, they turned that around. We came into the MVC with a great winning tradition, but we could just as easily duplicate Evansville's failure -- or Loyola's emergence. But our tepid investment in the changeover, to outsiders based on past MVC experience, is to them an indicator that will exist until we find a way to prove them wrong. And arguing about acadedemic standards and tuition costs a'int gonna get us anywhere.
The mirror that UNIFTW held up to us is this: are we ready to commit to playing (in all of it's aspects) with the bigger boys? If yes, let's see some action. If no, why are we in the MVC? You can't have it half way. Yoda said it. "Do. Do not do. There is no try."
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 02:48:19 PMAs I was thinking about this and you numbers. Why do you get to use half Valpo tuition for your numbers but not what most UNI students probably pay in just tuition - let's call it's half as well. That takes UNIs number down to 11,000 to your 18,000.
It appears to me that you have not sent any children to college yet, if you had or were looking at sending a child you would know that private universities play the tuition game and that the final difference between state schools and private institutions is not nearly the chasm most people think. I have a fair amount of experience in this area and yes, you will probably have to look harder for the dollars, but they are available and it is one of the reasons Valpo has been honored several times by U.S. News & World Report as the No. 1 Best Value in the Midwest along with best value awards from other publications. None of my children went to VU, but to other prominent private schools, and with a niece and nephew at Valpo, I am pretty confident that the average tuition number for students at VU is much closer to UNI than you might think.
I am sure that UNI is a fine school and seems to support it's athletic facilities better than VU. I would have to say that the two schools are very different and that difference is probably most evident when looking at endowment numbers. I very much wish that VU would improve on it's athletic facilities, but in today's environment I can not really fault the administration for the effort to raise an additional $250 million dollars for endowment rather than athletic facilities (although I could argue that successful athletic teams help increase donations hence endowment). As a private institution the endowments allow us to compete against state schools such as UNI that do not have similar endowments and rely at least somewhat on state dollars. This was never a thread about "who gives more money or gets more money from tuition" as it seems to have turned into, it was about how that money is spent and how the university responds as a steward of the money they have received.
All great points, FW. But we are really just talking athletics support. Wake (with, what, 4,000 undergrads?) for instance, knows how to do it. Most Catholic institutions know how to do it. Where do we stand on that stage? I suggest we, as an institution, do not even understand what it takes to even be on that stage.
Wow...that's some pretty lofty smack 1314 against a program you are a whopping 17-68 against lifetime, and haven't beaten in 11 years, but whatever makes you feel good.
I won't come on your board and start a yanker measuring contest..I will leave that to the UNI boy, but a UNI and Valpo fan dissing Evansville in a thread titled "facilities" is more than amusing.
Quote from: E-Villan on May 01, 2018, 09:58:45 PM
Wow...that's some pretty lofty smack 1314 against a program you are a whopping 17-68 against lifetime, and haven't beaten in 11 years, but whatever makes you feel good.
I won't come on your board and start a yanker measuring contest..I will leave that to the UNI boy, but a UNI and Valpo fan dissing Evansville in a thread titled "facilities" is more than amusing.
Good point on the record. Unfortunately your program went the way of the long robes (which I actually thought were pretty cool!) However, Jerry Sloan doesn't play for you any longer!
I'm not the one who was talking smack about Evansville. If you read the thread our friend from Iowa took the first shot and if you read MVCFans Evansville has been a favorite whipping post for some time. I simply stated that we don't deserve to be a whipping post yet and gave reasons why. If you took that personally I apologize Evansville wasn't my target but my means of making my point defending Valpo. Here's a key line from my post that demonstrates my intent in the Evansville discussion.
"We are decidedly not another Evansville at least not in the way you conceive of Evansville."
He's the one who used "another Evansville" as a pejorative.
Quote from: a3uge on May 01, 2018, 05:48:25 PMQuote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 05:35:12 PMWho was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and :censored: went downhill fast. Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In terms of facilities, where do you feel UNI is right now vs the rest of the MVC?
As it stands today? Which sports?
For basketball/volleyball:
In terms of arena I'd say we are 4th or 5th with Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Bradley and Illinois State all potentially equal or a head. I also struggle to actually rate schools that don't own their own arena (Bradley, Evansville) a head of campus arenas. I realize Evansville has a bigger and newer arena but man that set up just doesn't do it for me as a CBB fan. SIU I haven't been too since it was updated but they put a lot into it recently. Our arena has many things missing that these upgrades will address - hanging video board, ribbon boards, a better sound system. Those were cheaped out on when the arena was built as was video and score boards and it's killed atmosphere since it opened. Been a major complain since day 1. Poor planning didn't account for adding nice boards and systems in place. Banners in the arena will be updates with bigger and better (brighter colors and updated custom UNI font). Signage updated. Once the renovation is done I can't imagine anything other than MSU being a head of it. UNI could rank a head of it simply because of how intimate the atmosphere is compared to something the size of JQH Arena. I know many schools don't play volleyball in their main facility, and rather the play in some side gym that is smaller and not as well maintained. UNI doesn't do that. Volleyball is played in the same facility.
In terms of practice area? I'm not 100% who has practice facilities (I've not looked to be honest to be 100% sure) but I'd guess we are probably somewhere in the 4-7 range. We have access to many courts to practice, but most of them are in the UNI Rec Center and aren't in fantastic condition like you'd want from a D1 practice space. Once the new place is built I can't imagine it wouldn't be at the top or top 2.
Locker rooms, team meeting rooms, training rooms? Top 3. UNI just renovated all that about 4 years ago through a 100% private endowment for that project (noticing a trend for how UNI pays for the athletics? The U might operate on state money but the AD doesn't). The individual who donated the money has since passed away and UNI wore a DH patch on their uniforms and special warm ups in his memory. Here is a video when it was "unveiled" publicly.
Since then it has been updated again with signage, LED lighting, more amenities, etc.. Another video with Coach Jake giving a tour of it to a local paper at the same time frame
In terms of softball? It's a pretty nice facility, but I don't know a ton of about other facilities. A quick Google shows us mostly in line but it's off campus and it's owned by the City of Cedar Falls. UNI has plans to build a new softball facility on campus just across the street from the basketball arena/football stadium which would be right on the south side of the track. I would imagine it would be pretty nice. Probably not the best in the conference but top 3. I'd assume the goal would be hosting conference tournaments. I would guess it would be similar to the style that Drake has and from what I understand Drake has the best facility is the best in the conference.
Track? The outdoor facility has been good enough for us to host multiple MVC meets. It got a few upgrades about a decade ago. It needs - and will get as part of the project - to be completely torn up and new asphalt laid under and a new surface. There will also be new bleachers and stands and boxes put in. That was held back in the past because of a facility that was behind it (a high school). That is now gone, thus the room for the new softball complex as well, and space to add things in. It will get new lights and a new infield that will be multiuse.
Soccer? I can't imagine we aren't the bottom. We play at a off campus soccer complex (like 5 miles off campus) that has probably a dozen fields. It's where the youth association and high schools in the area play. There's no stands, it's not great. I've seen most other soccer facilities. This too will be moved back to campus. I believe it will be the infield of the track. That should move it to top couple in the conference. Probably in the 3-4 range.
Swimming? I don't have any clue. I'll guess mid pack to lower mid pack simply because I know what our facility looks like and I can't imagine D1 facilities being any more basic than ours is. It's not bad it's just very basic. I'd imagine most - outside of the power schools - are all pretty similar.
Tennis? It was the worst. The on campus courts were a disaster. Thus the team practice and played at a club in Waterloo. So I'd guess they were okay but not idea. UNI just opened, this year, a new one million dollar tennis facility. It's not all UNI though I guess. It's like 51% UNI and then 49% split between the city of Cedar Falls and Cedar Falls CSD. I have not seen them but they were built to host conference championships, larger high school meets, and so on. I'd assume they are nice? Like any good PR spin they were called first class by the AD. Shockingly tennis doesn't get a ton of coverage so there aren't a ton of photos of it.
Baseball when we had it had to be 100000000% the worst. It wasn't on campus, it was a 20 minute drive. It was a dump. Horrible. It was part of the reason we dropped baseball - along with Title IX.
Rumors of a few womens sports being added to balance Title IX as well. I've heard rumblings what they are but won't comment on that yet in terms of potential facilities. They won't be MVC sports so it won't matter in this context anyway I guess.
Our non major sports have lagged - and that is going to be fixed. Donors weren't happy with the facilities and not being on campus. We've had ADs with vision but never the level our current AD has. It's making a major difference.
jhk
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 01, 2018, 05:54:30 PM
You're the one who came on here compared us to Evansville a program that gets absolutely zero respect from the MVC and is constantly looked down upon and blamed for the conference's ills. Meanwhile we actually did better than Loyola in their first year despite a ton of adversity. We have shown plenty of evidence that we have the ability to be and will be a good addition to the MVC.
The comp to Evansville is pretty simple. UE had a ton of success in a lower league before joining the MVC. They joined the MVC and had to step up a level or two in competition and spending. They didn't, and didn't see the value in it. They fell way behind and haven't really recovered. They finish in the bottom 2 or 3 of the all sports standing every year. I've run the numbers going back to about 2004 and they were bottom 2 or 3 every single year that's not me exaggerating. Here we are nearly 30 years later and nothing has changed. They can defend themselves because of Ford Arena - but that isn't theirs. They rent it. The city built it. The city runs it. The city controls everything about it. Evansville has to pay, IIRC something along the lines of $10-15k per game to play there. I googled their practice facility...that's what UNI has currently in the university Rec Center. It's something but it's not anything special.
Their baseball facility? I'll leave that to someone with baseball - the SIU newspaper and their ranking of MVC baseball facilities from 2 years ago. Evansville was dead last. https://dailyegyptian.com/1192/sports/ranking-the-mvcs-baseball-stadiums/
Meeks Field house is legit just a high school gym down to the retractable hard plastic seats. It's nice looking as it as just renovated last year but it's just a nice high school gym that houses womens basketball and volleyball.
I lied about UNI's pool being bad. I looked at UEs...gross.
Their facilities are a bit nicer than I'd have guessed but exactly what I'd expect from them. They've put money in the last few years from the looks of it.
Again, the Evansville comp - and trust me I'm not the only one to bring that out - is as I said before based on being behind on facilities and a stubbornness to admit that investing in the AD top to bottom is needed when joining. That puts up barriers in addition to the those that private schools already complain about. I'm not really willing to wait 25 years for Valpo to figure the facility thing out and have their city build a big hockey arena so that they can rent it for basketball games.
Doing better than Loyola in the first year? Don't care. I still don't trust Loyola's long term viability. Even at that look at the money they spent upgrading their facility. Gentile Arena is still a glorified HS gym but it's nicer than the ARC. They announced a practice facility that had been in the works since before this basketball season - meaning even at a PIG team they were fund raising for practice facilities.
I've said here that it's a bit chicken and egg when it comes to facilities and success. Which comes first or should come first? If you want call the chicken success and facilities the egg all I can say is it's tough to create more chickens without them having eggs to develop the chickens in...
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 01, 2018, 10:20:25 PMI've said here that it's a bit chicken and egg when it comes to facilities and success. Which comes first or should come first? If you want call the chicken success and facilities the egg all I can say is it's tough to create more chickens without them having eggs to develop the chickens in...
Some buy their chickens at the P5 full grown store.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 01, 2018, 05:58:27 PMIt's clear that we are extreamly defensive about the quality of our school. UNIFTW never questioned our school's quality, and we, in uber-defensive mode, lost sight of his key point: THE DEFERENCE BETWEEN UNI AND VALPO IS THE THE INTENSITY AND ATHLETIC FOCUS OF ALUMNI SUPPORT. If we had even 50% of that, we'd at least have a rejuvenated (not necessarily rebuilt) ARC and other facility upgrades that let us not only talk the talk but walk the walk. His reference to "another Evansville" was a statement of how a once great program came into the MVC and couldn't perform to MVC standards. Loyola was looking the same way, buy, evidently, they turned that around. We came into the MVC with a great winning tradition, but we could just as easily duplicate Evansville's failure -- or Loyola's emergence. But our tepid investment in the changeover, to outsiders based on past MVC experience, is to them an indicator that will exist until we find a way to prove them wrong. And arguing about acadedemic standards and tuition costs a'int gonna get us anywhere. The mirror that UNIFTW held up to us is this: are we ready to commit to playing (in all of it's aspects) with the bigger boys? If yes, let's see some action. If no, why are we in the MVC? You can't have it half way. Yoda said it. "Do. Do not do. There is no try."
This is a good post. The best indicator of future happenings is past happenings. Look at the MVC and look at our past happenings - especially with private schools (which is why there is so much animosity between the public and private schools). The two more recent additions - other than Valpo - are Evansville and Loyola. You can point to their Final Four run this year as proof of something but time will tell how sustainable or lightning in a bottle that run was...I will point you to George Mason and VCU for what I'm talking about. Even beyond the mens basketball side of things Loyola and Evansville, as I've already mentioned, are pretty much bottom of the conference in every single sports, every single year. Add Drake in to that - who has dominated WBB and softball the last two or three years - yet is also in the bottom 3 or 4 of the all sports standings every single year.
There is a division in the MVC between public and private schools. It comes from the public schools athletic departments being significantly a head, top to bottom, of private schools. Traditionally the response from private schools hasn't been "How do we get better?" it's been every excuse they can think of and then even excuses that are just random words thrown together.Go back to before last basketball season and remember what all MVC fans were sold by Valpo fans. When expectations are set at that level and the results happen the way they did can you really blame anyone for looking at past results as an indication of what may come? Especially when discussions like this thread happen at that school? Get upset with me pointing that out all you want. That's fine. I hope you aren't that. I hope UNI and Valpo are 1-2 every year in MBB. I'd enjoy that.
Since either I am not smart enough to quote, or you have to have special Lutheran access, I will simply reply to UNI in regards that we did not step up in conference affiliation, rather a small step backwards. The MCC was a better conference top to bottom and we handled it quite well. Our first years in the Valley were fine. Our problems didn't start with the Valley, rather some horrible administration hires, that had little fire for athletics.
Congrats on having the better pool.
We're aware of the pressing need for facilities upgrades and we are making slow but sure progress. I think everyone from the administration to the AD is aware of this. If they decide to sit on their hands and let Valpo fall behind I and the majority of this board will be very unhappy. The question is will the will, the aggressiveness, and the money be there? With the endowment drive seemingly going well and nearing completion, I'd like to believe that we will see more athletics-centered construction or at least the rec center, soon which will open the door. How long can we afford to wait? The work being done at other universities suggests not long. I guess this is a roundabout way of saying we agree, I just didn't like the way you said it. That doesn't make you wrong or invalidate your points, it's just a tough mirror to look into as 62 mentioned.
Quote from: E-Villan on May 01, 2018, 10:58:54 PMSince either I am not smart enough to quote, or you have to have special Lutheran access, I will simply reply to UNI in regards that we did not step up in conference affiliation, rather a small step backwards. The MCC was a better conference top to bottom and we handled it quite well. Our first years in the Valley were fine. Our problems didn't start with the Valley, rather some horrible administration hires, that had little fire for athletics. Congrats on having the better pool.
I firmly believe this. The life and excitement the program is showing now that Marty is gone indicates that it must be so. Bad luck and bad decisions had the most to do with Evansville's troubles.
Here's a fact we can all agree on: we're all in this together and we're all chasing the same things: national respect and at large bids. If these weren't foremost goals, we wouldn't be here. To get there we need everybody public and private to be strong and committed. I think you will find over the years that we are.
It was way deeper than Marty. Sure, he was a wet blanket on the program, and had the PR skills of a sign post, but the last two presidents were most of the issue. Neither had much appetite for athletics, instead focusing on international recruitment, and liberal arts causes. We now have a very strong AD, and the incoming president has an extensive background in NCAA athletics, along with his wife. Boosters are coming out of the woodwork, season ticket sales are soaring. Money is coming in and being spent. From what I have seen of the non-con, Walter wasn't joking when he said we needed to play tough teams. No one knows how this will translate on the court, but the foundation is better than it has been in 20 years.
Where can I find some info on Evansville's non con? All I know is @Illinois
I will tell you there is another P6 road game, one that had a much higher RPI than Illinois, 3 solid regional programs, and no SWAC teams at this point.
Two rhumbs way up!
Good point, but unfortunately our beloved alums has to work on a low rated morning show
grad1314 - before we rip Evansville, Valpo first needs to defeat them in basketball competition, for which the Aces provided a sweep. Remember, we were last in the MVC last year.
So, if you look at history, Evansville has a proud basketball tradition - Jerry Sloan, a very good NBA player and a great NBA coach, is an alum. Blasphemous as it sounds, his accomplishments are greater than the Drew's. also, if you look at records, Evansville has dominated Valpo.
I'll say this for the intensity of the MVC fan bases: We never had an Oakland fan and a Youngstown State fan back and forth s#&t talking each other on our board while we were in the Horizon.
Let's be honest, VULB62 nails it. Comparisons to the state schools is a fruitless waste of time. Comparison to Evansville is dead on the mark.
E-Villan nails the reasons Evansville is lacking. The last two presidents were more interested in international students and..(the arts?.).I have.no time to look at the prior posts). Anyway his point is that neither of the two recent Presidents had a passion for athletics. Heckler is in year #10. Not new by any means. Does that sound familiar?
In terms of our alumni, WHY DOE VU72 and many others assume our alumni are less wealthy than Drake and Bradley? Could it also be the skill of the VU fund-raising team? I have heard of many Valpo alumni who either have big wealth or have close connections to those people. But they never get any contact. Even blind squirrels find nuts.
So why can't VU raise more dollars and a bigger pie to divide among projects university wide? They didn't raise gifts for the buildings as our financial statements demonstrate. Based on our last 8 years of performance in fund-raising, I see a bigger likelihood that our basketball team rises up in the standings than our fund-raisers can move up in comparison to Drake, Bradley, and Evansvile. Those are all schools where we compare in size and US News rank.
Is it time to ask why our alumni outreach and fund-raising sucks? How many attend the alumni events in our key cities? Time to smoke out those answers.
I think that, much like our buildings, a big problem with athletic facilities has been waiting too long for the lead donor.
I wish we were moving faster for sure BUT:
if we look at athletics as a bigger picture we have seen: The installation of the new track. Face lifts of all locker rooms and weigh rooms, installing air conditioning in our practice facilities. A new softball field, updated tennis courts, and now an upgraded baseball field. Not to mention a new gym floor, a multi-million dollar recruiting endowment for basketball and internal upgrades to the ARC.
Now, very little of those are exciting, to be sure, but we need to walk before we can crawl. I have also heard that the order is coming from the top down that efforts need to be made to increase campus wide school spirit and engagement with our sporting events to match the increase in intensity of the MVC. I would also point to our football team as a sign of how, with good hires and cultivation of alumni with a little patience, success will come. I have put the administration on a bit of an internal clock which is: if we don't have an actual plan for the rec center by the end of next year to start fundraising around/or with at least one decent lead donor than I'd say we will be squandering success. But to have a blueprint out there to excite students and potential recruits as well as alumni it will make it easier to swallow a 4 year timeline before it's a reality. 2 years to fundraise, 2 years to build.
Quote from: E-Villan on May 01, 2018, 09:58:45 PM
Wow...that's some pretty lofty smack 1314 against a program you are a whopping 17-68 against lifetime, and haven't beaten in 11 years, but whatever makes you feel good.
I won't come on your board and start a yanker measuring contest..I will leave that to the UNI boy, but a UNI and Valpo fan dissing Evansville in a thread titled "facilities" is more than amusing.
As the parent of an Evansville grad and a former member of the UE Parent's board, I have enjoyed my affiliation with the school and some of the administrators there. Loved going to games at Roberts, unfortunately that was during the Steve Merfeld years. Perhaps you would be interested in the unique Valpo connection to the 1977 plane crash involving the Evansville basketball program (it was first reported that Valpo's plane had crashed) which can be found here on the Union Street Hoops Podcast #44 (http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_339b9c66-e10e-11e7-9d34-cff9528ae2d5.html).
Quote from: crusadermoe on May 02, 2018, 08:14:05 AM
In terms of our alumni, WHY DOE VU72 and many others assume our alumni are less wealthy than Drake and Bradley?
The best source I have seen on alumni wealth is this database at the New York Times, which I think is pulled from a large academic paper based on tax filings.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/valparaiso-university (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/valparaiso-university)
Bradley does look pretty similar to Valpo, but most of the other private schools in the MVC (as well as others that often get mentioned as models on this board) do seem to have significantly larger pools of top 1% and top 5% people to hopefully draw large and/or lead donors from. Although UNI, which apparently is having incredible fundraising success, has by far the worst percentages, but perhaps when multiplied out by a larger alumni base it still results in a larger sized pool of wealthy donors? I am not sure how much bigger UNIs alumni population is compared to the other schools on the list. If you are curious about any other schools that I didn't list, you can search for thousands of them at the site. The numbers I pulled are from the "Outcomes" section. Also interesting to look at is how wealthy the families of current students are, which is likely to be a pretty good indicator of what kind of pool of future donors each university will have to rely on 20 to 40 years from now.
Alumni in Top 1%
Loyola...3.9%
Xavier...3.7%
Drake...3.5%
Gonzaga...3.3%
Butler...2.8%
Valpo...2.3%
Bradley...2.3%
Evansville...1.7%
UNI...1.3%
Alumni in Top 5%
Drake...23%
Butler...22%
Loyola...17%
Gonzaga...17%
Xavier...15%
Bradley...14%
Valpo...13%
Evansville...7.8%
UNI...7.3%
(modified post to add Evansville, bad oversight on my part)
Yep, start the clock. You need to raise the construction money in ADDITION to the endowment. Rec Center is probably a bigger enrollment and revenue impact than ARC improvements.
The "Forever" endowment campaign, as I have pointed out before, is moving really slowly and may take FOREVER.
I didn't pounce yet one other part of the Financial Statements.......the amount of ACTUAL cash pledged to endowment. Despite all the hype around the total campaign goal, the amount of new cash raised to the endowment is REALLY underwhelming. I think it was $12 million outstanding cash payable in next 2-5 years. Folks, at that amount we very gradually build up to a peak of $500,000 in new spendable cash per year. It sounds like a lot, but it is NOT in the realm of a $130 million dollar budget.
How about 25 new students at $20,000 apiece in net tuition?...and DO IT NOW?? The answer to the fiscal strains is in enrollment.........endowment is a long-term solution. We can't wait around for that impact on the budget. Long-term means 10-20 years. If you want a more vigorous place, you have to enroll more students.....FAST!
I keep going back and forth with my opinion on Heckler vis a vis commitment to athletics. Because we haven't seen the sweeping changes to the athletic facilities that we're seeing at other schools and are demanding ourselves it's easy to get caught up in thinking the administration doesn't care enough but if you aggregate everything he's done for athletics over his tenure it really is quite impressive. We're a lot better off than we were 10 years ago that's for sure. Furthermore we have one of the best ADs we could ask for and I'm not sure he gets the credit he deserves. He's a big reason behind Valpo's tremendous improvement these past 25 years and I look forward to seeing where he'll take our programs next. I believe in our leadership and trust that my faith will be rewarded.
Quote from: crusader05 on May 02, 2018, 08:25:35 AM
I think that, much like our buildings, a big problem with athletic facilities has been waiting too long for the lead donor.
I wish we were moving faster for sure BUT:
if we look at athletics as a bigger picture we have seen: The installation of the new track. Face lifts of all locker rooms and weigh rooms, installing air conditioning in our practice facilities. A new softball field, updated tennis courts, and now an upgraded baseball field. Not to mention a new gym floor, a multi-million dollar recruiting endowment for basketball and internal upgrades to the ARC.
Now, very little of those are exciting, to be sure, but we need to walk before we can crawl. I have also heard that the order is coming from the top down that efforts need to be made to increase campus wide school spirit and engagement with our sporting events to match the increase in intensity of the MVC. I would also point to our football team as a sign of how, with good hires and cultivation of alumni with a little patience, success will come. I have put the administration on a bit of an internal clock which is: if we don't have an actual plan for the rec center by the end of next year to start fundraising around/or with at least one decent lead donor than I'd say we will be squandering success. But to have a blueprint out there to excite students and potential recruits as well as alumni it will make it easier to swallow a 4 year timeline before it's a reality. 2 years to fundraise, 2 years to build.
How many of you have talked recently to Ben Boggs? Ben has been out barnstorming as the new Assistant Director of Annual Giving and I was pleasantly surprised to hear that things might be moving along on the Rec Center. Has anyone else gotten that indication?
Quote from: crusadermoe on May 02, 2018, 08:14:05 AM
Let's be honest, VULB62 nails it. Comparisons to the state schools is a fruitless waste of time. Comparison to Evansville is dead on the mark.
E-Villan nails the reasons Evansville is lacking. The last two presidents were more interested in international students and..(the arts?.).I have.no time to look at the prior posts). Anyway his point is that neither of the two recent Presidents had a passion for athletics. Heckler is in year #10. Not new by any means. Does that sound familiar?
In terms of our alumni, WHY DOE VU72 and many others assume our alumni are less wealthy than Drake and Bradley? Could it also be the skill of the VU fund-raising team? I have heard of many Valpo alumni who either have big wealth or have close connections to those people. But they never get any contact. Even blind squirrels find nuts.
So why can't VU raise more dollars and a bigger pie to divide among projects university wide? They didn't raise gifts for the buildings as our financial statements demonstrate. Based on our last 8 years of performance in fund-raising, I see a bigger likelihood that our basketball team rises up in the standings than our fund-raisers can move up in comparison to Drake, Bradley, and Evansvile. Those are all schools where we compare in size and US News rank.
Is it time to ask why our alumni outreach and fund-raising sucks? How many attend the alumni events in our key cities? Time to smoke out those answers.
I'll bite. Where did you get that idea? Valpo has plenty of wealthy and very successful alumni. The problem with a small school isn't that there aren't successful alumni, it is that the entire alumni base is small. Having said that, Valpo just raised over 750,000 in the Day of Giving. The other problem is that you can only go to the well so many times. As noted, some of the recent projects were done with borrowed funds but others were done with cash. The library, the Union, the VUCA, and all the athletic projects mentioned.
I have said it before, and I am sure the athletic fund raisers are busy working on the lead donor, but, you don't want to distract from a current drive by instituting another. The board feels endowment is critical. Lacking a lead donor for athletics, I don't think the University will roll out a major fund raising drive for anything new until the current drive is complete.
In the meantime, fund raising needs to be done for completing the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball. Remember that over a half-million was spent just to update the ARC broadcasts. And as for the basketball facilities, I'm pretty sure the entire basketball wing was redone last year.
For reference, here are the fund drives and funds raised over the last 25 years:
Lighting the Way--$36 million
Three Goals, One Promise--$122 million
Our Valpo, Our Time--$236 million
Forever Valpo--$250 million ($180 million raised to date)
That's $574 million, not counting the annual funds raised, from an alumni base of about 50,000. Loyola, in comparison, has an alumni base of about 130,000.
I have definitely gotten the vibe that Athletics is at the forefront of people's minds. Both by things people have said and by the fact that there hasn't been talk of any new academic stuff around. I've heard more about attendance, rec center, and our move to the Valley than about any other advancement project.
The endowment is important because it's long-term and will over time continue to alleviate pressure on our fiscal budget. It's a necessary piece to allow more freedom to fundraise for other things and also to not be constrained by yearly budgets
I work with a lot great UNI alums. As sports fans, many of them have more loyalty with the Iowa Hawkeyes, which are totally different fan breed.
Quote from: ml2 on May 02, 2018, 09:09:05 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on May 02, 2018, 08:14:05 AM
In terms of our alumni, WHY DOE VU72 and many others assume our alumni are less wealthy than Drake and Bradley?
The best source I have seen on alumni wealth is this database at the New York Times, which I think is pulled from a large academic paper based on tax filings.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/valparaiso-university (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/valparaiso-university)
Bradley does look pretty similar to Valpo, but most of the other private schools in the MVC (as well as others that often get mentioned as models on this board) do seem to have significantly larger pools of top 1% and top 5% people to hopefully draw large and/or lead donors from. Although UNI, which apparently is having incredible fundraising success, has by far the worst percentages, but perhaps when multiplied out by a larger alumni base it still results in a larger sized pool of wealthy donors? I am not sure how much bigger UNIs alumni population is compared to the other schools on the list. If you are curious about any other schools that I didn't list, you can search for thousands of them at the site. The numbers I pulled are from the "Outcomes" section. Also interesting to look at is how wealthy the families of current students are, which is likely to be a pretty good indicator of what kind of pool of future donors each university will have to rely on 20 to 40 years from now.
Alumni in Top 1%
Loyola...3.9%
Xavier...3.7%
Drake...3.5%
Gonzaga...3.3%
Butler...2.8%
Valpo...2.3%
Bradley...2.3%
Evansville...1.7%
UNI...1.3%
Alumni in Top 5%
Drake...23%
Butler...22%
Loyola...17%
Gonzaga...17%
Xavier...15%
Bradley...14%
Valpo...13%
Evansville...7.8%
UNI...7.3%
(modified post to add Evansville, bad oversight on my part)
UNI is known, nationally, for 2 things (excluding athletics): our tremendous teaching program and our highly regarded business/accounting/CPA and MBA programs. The only PhD UNI offers is an EdD. We don't have a law school. We don't have pre law. We don't have med school or pre med or most biology programs that doctors start in. We have some engineering but it's not the forefront of our university.
We don't produce a ton of people that will go into jobs making 150,000 or more.
UNI knows what it does and it does it very well. Almost to a fault and detraction of other programs. Our nicest - by far - academic buildings are the Curris Business Center and Schindler Education Building.
The issue in Iowa and being a state school is the BoR tries to keep duplication of majors and top programs down. Iowa has law and medicine. Iowa State has engineering, ag and a hell of a vet school. That leaves UNI - the Iowa State Normal School as we were founded as - with business, education and social work. Not a ton of money coming out of those areas for 99% of graduates. UNI does have one of the best Mental Health Counseling masters programs programs in the country and one of the first 3 accredited nationally back in the day but Iowa and Iowa State get the PhD programs.
That would explain those numbers pretty easily. We have some very high ranking people in the business world - but with over a million living alumni it's tough to have enough teachers, social workers and accountants making 150k+ per year to get that number higher.
Drake doesn't have those worries because they aren't state controlled. They can run a med and law program. They also run such a poor business program it lost accreditation a few years back.
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UNI is a great school for education, the only problem is jobs in education in Iowa are very limited compared to most states. Most graduates move out of state. It makes you wonder if Iowa is spending collegeic money in the right place.
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 02, 2018, 10:15:02 AM
UNI is a great school for education, the only problem is jobs in education in Iowa are very limited compared to most states. Most graduates move out of state. It makes you wonder if Iowa is spending collegeic money in the right place.
I wouldn't say most - and this is a recent phenomena. UNI has always really been Iowa's real "state university of Iowa". By percentage UNI educates more Iowans and keeps more graduates in Iowa than either of the other two. Historically something like 80% of UNI grads stay in Iowa. Iowa has a tuition forgiveness for teachers to keep them in Iowa and get them in needy districts. However, that's changing for political reasons and I hate politics so I'll leave it at that.
You live in DSM so you can correct me but much of what is causing DSM and a Cedar Rapids and Des Moines to boom is banking and insurance. UNI grads flock to those places in massive numbers because of it.
The issue isn't spending money at the university on the wrong programs - it's the state of Iowa and their general governmental approach to what and how to find things. Education and public and social health services aren't on that list sadly.
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I'd think the big cache thing you have if we do get a lead donor for the rec center is the naming rights. Much more exciting than an academic building.
Many of Valpo's donors of old seem to have been centered around people who are involved in the Lutheran Church and also maybe with successful non-profits. I can also think of the Christophers who founded(?) Pampered Chef. The engineering program benefited from having someone high up in Caterpillar from the University. I would like to believe that our recent investment in both Engineering and Business will reap rewards in the future. As well as our Meteorology programs transition to also embrace the broadcasting aspect. Finally the addition of the PA program and embrace of upping our science tech should maybe help us with pre-med students. But all of these are a long way off still.
I have also heard that there are wealthy young alums in the Chicago Area that the University has been working to woo as well.
Quote from: crusader05 on May 02, 2018, 11:23:11 AM
I'd think the big cache thing you have if we do get a lead donor for the rec center is the naming rights. Much more exciting than an academic building.
Many of Valpo's donors of old seem to have been centered around people who are involved in the Lutheran Church and also maybe with successful non-profits. I can also think of the Christophers who founded(?) Pampered Chef. The engineering program benefited from having someone high up in Caterpillar from the University. I would like to believe that our recent investment in both Engineering and Business will reap rewards in the future. As well as our Meteorology programs transition to also embrace the broadcasting aspect. Finally the addition of the PA program and embrace of upping our science tech should maybe help us with pre-med students. But all of these are a long way off still.
I have also heard that there are wealthy young alums in the Chicago Area that the University has been working to woo as well.
yes, the Christophers founded Pampered Chef and sold it to Warren Buffet and yes, that "high up" in Caterpillar was Don Fites, the retired CEO. I think you are on to something about older alums. Remember that in the 70's, 75% of students were Lutheran and many went into teaching, the Clergy etc. Heck, we had a total dorm dedicated to just Deaconesses! Times have changed. We now have highly regarded business, engineering and nursing colleges together with many alums in broadcasting, particularly meteorology. All good, but will take some time for more to achieve at high levels financially.
FWalum I agree on your assessment of Ben Boggs visit and comments on the Rec center...time will tell.
Thanks for re-capping the fund drive, VU72. Your facts are great and opinions well taken, though sometimes we disagree.
Pasted below is your re-cap. I have inserted BOLD NOTES.
For reference, here are the fund drives and funds raised over the last 25 years:
Lighting the Way--$36 million - HARRE - early 90s
Three Goals, One Promise--$122 million HARRE -late 90s
Our Valpo, Our Time--$236 million - HARRE 2005-2009 (Heckler began in 2008)
Forever Valpo--$250 million ($180 m to date) - HECKLER 2010 through... ..2023? (chapel renovation gift of $15m is wrapped in)
That's $574 million, not counting the annual funds raised, from an alumni base of about 50,000. Loyola, in comparison, has an alumni base of about 130,000.
« Last Edit: Today at 10:11:22 AM by vu72 »
Crusadermoe:
Did you include the New Welcome center as I believe that was fully funded through donations as well as the Fites Engineering Center which would be another 18 million raised through donations outside of the Forever Valpo Fund.
Also the Track, which I am not sure if it falls under Forever Valpo or not
Quote from: crusader05 on May 02, 2018, 04:10:27 PM
Crusadermoe:
Did you include the New Welcome center as I believe that was fully funded through donations as well as the Fites Engineering Center which would be another 18 million raised through donations outside of the Forever Valpo Fund.
Also the Track, which I am not sure if it falls under Forever Valpo or not
The Fites Addition was part of Our Valpo Our Time campaign. The track is part of Forever Valpo and The Welcome Center was, I believe, outside any campaign as it was dedicated in 2013. The Dussenberg's contributed $ 5 million for the building.
Wasn't the track part of the FITT initiative?
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 02, 2018, 07:44:03 PM
Wasn't the track part of the FITT initiative?
It was, but was never funded. It rolled into the current raise, at least it is stated as such.
Annual funds are counted in the campaign totals.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 01, 2018, 11:50:00 PM
Two rhumbs way up!
I had to look it up.
rhumbnounNAUTICAL
plural noun:
rhumbs1.
an imaginary line on the earth's surface cutting all meridians at the same angle, used as the standard method of plotting a ship's course on a chart.
2.
any of the 32 points of the compass.
If you have two rhumbs up does that change the shape of the earth?
I've been out of town on business for a while, so this was probably covered in another post -- but President Heckler gave his end-of-the-semester radio interview on April 30. He mentioned that the university is done with renovation projects for now (the Neils renovation must be finished -- I doubt the renovation of that building was very extensive) and attention will now turn to the roads around campus. From what I have seen (particularly the road leading onto campus from Sturdy on the east side of campus) that will be money well spent.
There was no mention of fundraising for new facilities. At least I don't recall any discussion on that topic. I suspect, though, that the university is quietly working on funding for the fieldhouse.
Paul
So quiet even they don't know about it.
Quote from: 78crusader on May 05, 2018, 10:11:02 AM
I've been out of town on business for a while, so this was probably covered in another post -- but President Heckler gave his end-of-the-semester radio interview on April 30. He mentioned that the university is done with renovation projects for now (the Neils renovation must be finished -- I doubt the renovation of that building was very extensive) and attention will now turn to the roads around campus. From what I have seen (particularly the road leading onto campus from Sturdy on the east side of campus) that will be money well spent.
There was no mention of fundraising for new facilities. At least I don't recall any discussion on that topic. I suspect, though, that the university is quietly working on funding for the fieldhouse.
Paul
Do you have a link to the interview?
I'll just throw out my honest opinion. Not gonna pretend to know the financial situation. Also not sure how the UNI vs Valpo argument got so deep, borderline comical. Way too complex for any of us to be trying to draw conclusions/comparisons about tuition and funding and all that. Apples and oranges sounds about right.
Anyways,
Making the Arc pretty should be priority number one. It doesn't look good on TV right now. Dial back on the seating and model Loyola if you must. Nothing impressive about Gentile, but at least it looks like an honest to goodness venue you should be paying money to visit. You don't have to sacrifice the history or intimate feel of the place to get it looking like a real arena.
Quote from: UNIfan on May 06, 2018, 11:10:15 AM
I'll just throw out my honest opinion. Not gonna pretend to know the financial situation. Also not sure how the UNI vs Valpo argument got so deep, borderline comical. Way too complex for any of us to be trying to draw conclusions/comparisons about tuition and funding and all that. Apples and oranges sounds about right.
Anyways,
Making the Arc pretty should be priority number one. It doesn't look good on TV right now. Dial back on the seating and model Loyola if you must. Nothing impressive about Gentile, but at least it looks like an honest to goodness venue you should be paying money to visit. You don't have to sacrifice the history or intimate feel of the place to get it looking like a real arena.
Making the ARC look good for viewers of a paid ESPN subscription service is probably the least effective way to spend money. There's far more pressing needs that will actually affect recruiting.
Would imagine the first glimpse many non local recruits get of the ARC is on ESPN.
Quote from: a3uge on May 06, 2018, 11:31:37 AMQuote from: UNIfan on May 06, 2018, 11:10:15 AMI'll just throw out my honest opinion. Not gonna pretend to know the financial situation. Also not sure how the UNI vs Valpo argument got so deep, borderline comical. Way too complex for any of us to be trying to draw conclusions/comparisons about tuition and funding and all that. Apples and oranges sounds about right. Anyways, Making the Arc pretty should be priority number one. It doesn't look good on TV right now. Dial back on the seating and model Loyola if you must. Nothing impressive about Gentile, but at least it looks like an honest to goodness venue you should be paying money to visit. You don't have to sacrifice the history or intimate feel of the place to get it looking like a real arena.
Making the ARC look good for viewers of a paid ESPN subscription service is probably the least effective way to spend money. There's far more pressing needs that will actually affect recruiting.
Idk enough to know if something is truly more pressing, but talk about complacency. It's your most visible facility, and recruits care alot about where they compete, fans care alot too. If you feel like your peak exposure is ESPN3 then I guess you have a point, but that's a really weak vision of your program.
Quote from: UNIfan on May 06, 2018, 05:56:58 PM
Quote from: a3uge on May 06, 2018, 11:31:37 AMQuote from: UNIfan on May 06, 2018, 11:10:15 AMI'll just throw out my honest opinion. Not gonna pretend to know the financial situation. Also not sure how the UNI vs Valpo argument got so deep, borderline comical. Way too complex for any of us to be trying to draw conclusions/comparisons about tuition and funding and all that. Apples and oranges sounds about right. Anyways, Making the Arc pretty should be priority number one. It doesn't look good on TV right now. Dial back on the seating and model Loyola if you must. Nothing impressive about Gentile, but at least it looks like an honest to goodness venue you should be paying money to visit. You don't have to sacrifice the history or intimate feel of the place to get it looking like a real arena.
Making the ARC look good for viewers of a paid ESPN subscription service is probably the least effective way to spend money. There's far more pressing needs that will actually affect recruiting.
Idk enough to know if something is truly more pressing, but talk about complacency. It's your most visible facility, and recruits care alot about where they compete, fans care alot too. If you feel like your peak exposure is ESPN3 then I guess you have a point, but that's a really weak vision of your program.
Pay for the renovation or move on from this subject UNI. My vote anyways.
Quote from: UNIfan on May 06, 2018, 05:56:58 PM
Quote from: a3uge on May 06, 2018, 11:31:37 AMQuote from: UNIfan on May 06, 2018, 11:10:15 AMI'll just throw out my honest opinion. Not gonna pretend to know the financial situation. Also not sure how the UNI vs Valpo argument got so deep, borderline comical. Way too complex for any of us to be trying to draw conclusions/comparisons about tuition and funding and all that. Apples and oranges sounds about right. Anyways, Making the Arc pretty should be priority number one. It doesn't look good on TV right now. Dial back on the seating and model Loyola if you must. Nothing impressive about Gentile, but at least it looks like an honest to goodness venue you should be paying money to visit. You don't have to sacrifice the history or intimate feel of the place to get it looking like a real arena.
Making the ARC look good for viewers of a paid ESPN subscription service is probably the least effective way to spend money. There's far more pressing needs that will actually affect recruiting.
Idk enough to know if something is truly more pressing, but talk about complacency. It's your most visible facility, and recruits care alot about where they compete, fans care alot too. If you feel like your peak exposure is ESPN3 then I guess you have a point, but that's a really weak vision of your program.
How do I have a weak vision of my program if I don't believe the prettiness of the ARC on TV is what drives recruits to/from Valpo? I formed this opinion based on Valpo's time in the Horizon. Valpo easily had the league's worst arena, but there seemed to be no correlation between arena and success. Even looking at the MVC, it appears Bradley and Evansville have two of the nicest arenas, but they've been two of the worst rated teams over the past five years.
As for fans caring about the arena, I agree, it plays a much larger role.
How? Easy. Rationalization.
Bottom line, we jumped to a confererence we are not prepared to compete in.
We could, compete........... but the money is just not there. And will not be there until (of if) the administration understands what a great opportunity the MVC provides.
But we have a tradition of blowing opportunities.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 06, 2018, 10:01:06 PM
How? Easy. Rationalization.
Bottom line, we jumped to a confererence we are not prepared to compete in.
We could, compete........... but the money is just not there. And will not be there until (of if) the administration understands what a great opportunity the MVC provides.
But we have a tradition of blowing opportunities.
Wow, I didn't realize the NCAA allowed schools to pay players now, my mistake.
I have a feeling coach Lottich, AD LaBarbera and the entire Crusaders roster would have a thing or two to say about these assertions concerning the program's readiness to compete. Facilities are a factor and an important factor but program leadership program culture and the university as a whole matter just as much if not more especially at this level. I have a feeling we'll be competing just fine very soon. We probably won't ever dominate the way we did in the mid-con and the HL I don't know if any team in the MVC will, but I believe that we will field a consistently competitive team that wins its share of MVC titles. Again it may be slower paced than we all would like but if there were truly no will no support and no appetite as so many allege we wouldn't be seeing upgrades to the baseball field or making steady progress on the rec center nor would we have earmarked the old hospital site for athletics use. Patience, friends, our time will come.
If Loyola's run this year didn't convince Heckler, et al, on how much exposure a deep tourney run can get you, nothing will.
Ironically I see the role of this board as a group of fans who publicly "heckle" the board and leaders to invest more in athletics.
What I have observed in our bleachers in in our financial reports now is a decreasing or level number of students and a decreasing inrerest in attending games as a member of a campus "community" or team.
Both things concern me. We have addressed curb appeal and so of our buildings thoroughly even if not completely. We need to see string upticks in enrollment and a decrease in apathy. So I personally plan to heckle in that direction until thise bugger issues are addressed. Then return to heckling for a nicer arena. If it is full,you dont see the bleachers or care about them. End of sermon.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on May 07, 2018, 07:22:35 AM
If Loyola's run this year didn't convince Heckler, et al, on how much exposure a deep tourney run can get you, nothing will.
Agreed, Valpo should decide to make the final four, just like Loyola did.
I noticed there have been focus type group meetings students were invited to this semester to see what ideas can be discussed or implemented to better encourage and develop student involvement and support for athletics. If I recall right I saw the post somewhere on Twitter last week. Might be a good starting point. Sorry I don't have a tweet link.
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Quote from: vufan75 on May 07, 2018, 10:39:01 AM
I noticed there have been focus type group meetings students were invited to this semester to see what ideas can be discussed or implemented to better encourage and develop student involvement and support for athletics. If I recall right I saw the post somewhere on Twitter last week. Might be a good starting point. Sorry I don't have a tweet link.
I'm going to plug this comment in this thread. http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=3075.175;last_msg=98694
Not sure if this is the correct forum thread, but I thought I'd pass along this information about summer work that will alter appearance of the campus.
Immediately following commencement, work will begin on the east campus landscape plan near VUCA extending to the Sturdy Road entrance.
This bond funded work is the fulfillment of the vision represented in the 2010 Campus Master Plan and the culmination of years of key building additions to the campus, now tied together with a central landscape theme. The project this summer represents the first phase of that work.
Below is a depiction of the landscape restructuring to be done this summer:
(https://s7.postimg.cc/bryz7y6dn/unnamed.jpg)
Are they getting rid of even more park? ??? The campus already has some big parking issues and it appears they are eliminating more in front of the Meteorology building? It's also interesting to see they are putting a road through campus, which they were opposed to in the past.
Really hard to envision this. It could be that the only road is to the VUCA drop off and the rest is a walking path. Also hard to figure where the VUCA performance hall will be. As for parking, they really need to build the Union ramp.
I think that looks really nice.
Will the east end changes include demolishing the diner at the corner of US 30 and IN 49? I thought that the lease runs out this year and that a pond/lake would be included in the improvements to that area.
I hope so. Terrible food, an eye sore, and isn't even on Broadway.
They are eliminating some parking but nothing major. Mostly because they've already moved parking around to prepare. The parking issue really only exists on the West End of Campus. There is a ton of parking behind Gellerson and, now that they've effectively moved all residents on that end into the parking garage, all the street parking behind Neils and the Union is staff or commuter. They really need to do something with the Parking near Guild-Memorial which is where you run into issues regarding the ARC and now the addition of the sorority town homes. They have repaved the parking lot where the hospital garage used to be so that could also be helpful for both games and to releive resident parking.
They will need to keep some sort of drop off point for the VUCA for accessibility reasons but my guess is it will be lightly used and will be a smaller road surrounded by grass instead of beat up old parking lots. I personally am looking forward to more green on campus as well as some established Quads. It really will help promote the collegiate atmosphere and creates a nice center of campus with some of our most impressive buildings.
My drumbeat continues:
1- "bond-funded"
2 - Will this help enrollment? ...and thereby net revnue to pay the bonds?
Quote from: crusadermoe on May 09, 2018, 03:18:33 PM
My drumbeat continues:
1- "bond-funded"
2 - Will this help enrollment? ...and thereby net revnue to pay the bonds?
Having a nice looking campus can make a good first impression on potential student and their parents. In a ideal world it shouldn't matter but it does.
Not seeing much ROI here.
Just curious. What's the price tag covered by the bonds?
I have a feeling that somebody here can find something to complain about no matter what the university does.
Quote from: M on May 09, 2018, 08:28:08 PM
I have a feeling that somebody here can find something to complain about no matter what the university does.
Ha! Solid observation.
Just took a drive through campus. The entire place looks spectacular. Bright whites, pinks and purples from dozens of flowering trees in full bloom. Flower gardens, planters, decorative shrubs everywhere. Green, lush, freshly cut grass. Beautiful upscale buildings. I could go on and on. I wish all of you long distance alums could see it. You would be so proud of your school.
BTW, that ARC-shaped darker shaded thing is not ROAD, it's a Brick-Paver "Spine Walk" as described on the master plan that runs a long way through the center of campus. the upper similarly-shaded thing is a re-direction of the current east-end of Chapel Drive that ends in a turnaround at the VUCA. There are some parking spaces shown on the that road; apparently entirely for Handicapped parking access.
Yep this another step in the transformation of Valpo to a "walking" campus that creates natural quads and green spaces for students. With the new Science Building and the fact that the parking lots in front of the VUCA and Urschel are looking pretty gross it makes sense to pull the trigger on these funds. I would also love to just see more outside seating for students. Benches and little stone ledges would make it look more inviting and increase the amount of students outside. Valpo can look kind of deserted at times with students inside and also, one thing I think we tend to lack is some of the gravitas of what we think of when we think a college question. We definitely have more impressive buildings but green spaces with walkways, established trees and maybe some outdoor seating could go a long way. I mean, it can't cost much to put a bench in. Have some young alums sponsor them and slap their names on them. I'd also love to see some fire bits or more established outdoor areas around the dorms.
Wasn't sure what thread to post this in but maybe this might draw some attention. Could you imagine what we could do with donations increasing 7X.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23500858/donations-loyola-chicago-ramblers-increased-660-percent-final-four-run
And those donations appear to be across the board. Not just to athletics. The F4 happened in March and it is just May.
Sermon to Choir: Investment in college athletics, if done with integrity and a well-thought out and prioritized strategic approach can provide positive returns on that investment in terms of alumni support, increased application pool and national brand recognition that continues to build even after the game changing event. It is a gamble on many fronts: right coach? right ongoing support budget? right improvements to the right facilities at the right time? But it could play off in spades.
Or could be a bust ???
That's what gambles are all about (and most investment usually involve some decisions based on faith). Loyola rolled the dice on the Gentile Arena rebuild and hiring Porter Moser. Those paid off by getting them into the MVC ahead of Valpo and, ultimately, those two gambles got them to the F4. But for every Loyola there are probably 10 busts. Just across town there is one example of that struggle. An hour and a half north on I-94 is another example. Both of which point to a third factor - having a good AD. Valpo has that already.
Amen.
Our AD's track record certainly warrants the investment. He also has the patience of Job.
Loyola is going to be selling alcohol at Gentile Arena again. I wouldn't mind if the ARC created a small 'Beer Garden' section for those who wanted to enjoy an adult beverage or two. I know others disagree but I don't think it would be a bad thing.
https://twitter.com/lava265/status/1034182818350419968
At the Loyola-UIC game I went to last season, looked like they had beer and wine for sale in a couple places in the tunnel/corridor just outside the arena. Thought the same thing as 21014 that it would be nice to offer these at the ARC. Only way to get beer or wine now is to pay for the ARC Suite which includes pregame food and half-time desserts.
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Quote from: VU2014 on August 28, 2018, 08:52:26 AM
Loyola is going to be selling alcohol at Gentile Arena again. I wouldn't mind if the ARC created a small 'Beer Garden' section for those who wanted to enjoy an adult beverage or two. I know others disagree but I don't think it would be a bad thing.
https://twitter.com/lava265/status/1034182818350419968
They sell beer at Hinkle now, and things honestly haven't changed that much from a fan experience. If Valpo does decide to sell beer, they should try to get 3 Floyd's. I would think that would go over really well.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 28, 2018, 11:22:08 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on August 28, 2018, 08:52:26 AM
Loyola is going to be selling alcohol at Gentile Arena again. I wouldn't mind if the ARC created a small 'Beer Garden' section for those who wanted to enjoy an adult beverage or two. I know others disagree but I don't think it would be a bad thing.
https://twitter.com/lava265/status/1034182818350419968
They sell beer at Hinkle now, and things honestly haven't changed that much from a fan experience. If Valpo does decide to sell beer, they should try to get 3 Floyd's. I would think that would go over really well.
I'd agree with selling beer and 3 Floyd's, Cheers!!!
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 28, 2018, 11:22:08 AM
They sell beer at Hinkle now, and things honestly haven't changed that much from a fan experience. If Valpo does decide to sell beer, they should try to get 3 Floyd's. I would think that would go over really well.
I would be a big fan of that idea. 3 Floyds has great beer and it's local.
Would selling beer increase revenue? Or will licensing and permits eliminate any profit from the sales of alcohol.
QuoteThey sell beer at Hinkle now, and things honestly haven't changed that much from a fan experience.
I've been to a bunch of college venues where they sell alcohol and it doesn't really change the atmosphere much. I think the fear was sending a mixed message to students back in the era of restricting alcohol and alcohol-related marketing on campuses (and in fairness, some states still don't allow it at public universities). I think the other fear was students getting drunk and disorderly at games. The latter hasn't come to pass because most students aren't going to afford/want to pay stadium prices for beer for more than one or two drinks.
Ball State just announced they'll be selling beer and wine and football and basketball games this season -- this is a school that still has a three-hour tailgating limit for home football games established in response to one rowdy homecoming game like 20 years ago, so for them to finally cross over, you know the research backs up this being a revenue generator without much of an increase in liability/problems.
Especially during basketball games. There's really not tailgating during winter like there is before football games. People are not intoxicated. And, I saw ball state cuts it off with 10 min to go...so people drink beer for an hour and 30 min or so? I know I cheer a little bit louder and harder when I have a beer or two in me :) it's been awhile, and its not 3 Floyd's, but doesn't ironwood (or figure 8, or both?) already brew a crusader themed beer?
Quote from: oklahomamick on August 28, 2018, 12:18:47 PM
Would selling beer increase revenue? Or will licensing and permits eliminate any profit from the sales of alcohol.
It's not just about revenue (I doubt they'd make a significant amount $ off of alcohol sales). It's about improving and enhancing the fan experience, which is something that we all could agree could stand to be improved.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 28, 2018, 12:43:27 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on August 28, 2018, 12:18:47 PM
Would selling beer increase revenue? Or will licensing and permits eliminate any profit from the sales of alcohol.
It's not just about revenue (I doubt they'd make a significant amount $ off of alcohol sales). It's about improving and enhancing the fan experience, which is something that we all could agree could stand to be improved.
I get where Mick is coming from, I would at least want it to cover expenses to consider. But I also agree that townies want an experience and that would add value. And possible amp up the noise-o-meter!
This needs to be addressed. It has to be next summer's big project. It's going to hurt recruiting if it's not addressed. Hopefully that's what the two buy games on the schedule will go toward.
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/1034193156152143874
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 29, 2018, 03:45:05 AM
This needs to be addressed. It has to be next summer's big project. It's going to hurt recruiting if it's not addressed. Hopefully that's what the two buy games on the schedule will go toward.
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/1034193156152143874
Are there any tangible numbers as to what it would take $$?
I heard $500K from another poster here
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on August 29, 2018, 07:25:48 AM
I heard $500K from another poster here
So would it be safe to say . . .
Year 1
$500,000 installation
$100,000 electric bill
Year 2
$105,000 electric bill
Year 3
$108,000 electric bill
etc
etc
I guess what I am getting at is that it's not just an upfront cost for them to consider. I have no earthly idea what the electric bill would look like but I know it's not $100/month!
Maybe so but the electric bill should not really be a concern. There are ways to make that money (buy games tournament credits increased attendance at early season volleyball games etc.) How much of an increase would it be over what they're paying now? That's the only number that matters after installation. I would be shocked if the increase is more than $50-70K
There are also ways to conserve on costs. The Valpo AC season runs roughly, what?, May though, at most, mid-October. Even during that period, there would be peaks and valleys in terms of full usage, though there could be short, weird heat spells outside that window. But today's smart controllers maximize performace -- that would have to be a requirement.
I would also consider two other utility-related investments for the ARC (including Hilltop). As the second largest flat-roofed building on campus after the Harre Union (based on my view on Google Maps), and oriented squarely north - south, its roof would be ideal for a solar array installation. The initial investment would be repaid in savings over a limited amount of time. "Green grants" could probably be found to help in this regard. The same can be said for replacing all major, big draw incandesent lighting (field lighting and ARC arena lighting, for exmple) with LED technology for greater utility savings. I think the Hilltop lights are already LED? As an example: Lambeau Field recently replaced all of it's field lighting (not inconsequential by any measure) with new LED lights. The justification? These new lights will pay for themselves in 2.5 years of use. Only 2.5 years.
And there is another benefit beyond cost savings -- the wealth of positive publicity that the university would reap in terms of its ecological leadership in the region if not nationally.
Met with a very high ranking person tonight and had a discussion regarding the Commissioner's comments regarding ARC improvements. The idea of building the REC center first has been scratched as it would cost in the area of $30-35 million. That isn't in the cards, for a long time. So there should be an announcement soon regarding plans to upgrade the ARC including, new seating, air conditioning, new lighting and enhanced concessions. That's all I know for tonight.
As a side note, had the chance to watch the volleyball team easily beat a Drake team tonight. A very good crowd (761) and 20 kids in the pep band. If you have the chance to catch a volleyball match don't pass it up. It is very entertaining! First place baby!
Terrific news! Is this announcement the start of a funding drive for these renovations or is the funding already in place? Either way, very encouraging!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on September 28, 2018, 09:42:46 PM
Terrific news! Is this announcement the start of a funding drive for these renovations or is the funding already in place? Either way, very encouraging!
That I don't know.
Quote from: vu72 on September 28, 2018, 09:20:45 PM
Met with a very high ranking person tonight and had a discussion regarding the Commissioner's comments regarding ARC improvements. The idea of building the REC center first has been scratched as it would cost in the area of $30-35 million. That isn't in the cards, for a long time. So there should be an announcement soon regarding plans to upgrade the ARC including, new seating, air conditioning, new lighting and enhanced concessions. That's all I know for tonight.
As a side note, had the chance to watch the volleyball team easily beat a Drake team tonight. A very good crowd (761) and 20 kids in the pep band. If you have the chance to catch a volleyball match don't pass it up. It is very entertaining! First place baby!
I've always thought along the same logical lines. Say, what, $5 million ? That investment now in 2018 dollars vs. saving up $35 million over 10 years and building something with 2028 dollars seems like a better choice.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 29, 2018, 07:53:59 AM
Quote from: vu72 on September 28, 2018, 09:20:45 PM
Met with a very high ranking person tonight and had a discussion regarding the Commissioner's comments regarding ARC improvements. The idea of building the REC center first has been scratched as it would cost in the area of $30-35 million. That isn't in the cards, for a long time. So there should be an announcement soon regarding plans to upgrade the ARC including, new seating, air conditioning, new lighting and enhanced concessions. That's all I know for tonight.
As a side note, had the chance to watch the volleyball team easily beat a Drake team tonight. A very good crowd (761) and 20 kids in the pep band. If you have the chance to catch a volleyball match don't pass it up. It is very entertaining! First place baby!
I've always thought along the same logical lines. Say, what, $5 million ? That investment now in 2018 dollars vs. saving up $35 million over 10 years and building something with 2028 dollars seems like a better choice.
The question is, where does the $5,000,000 to $10,000,000 for ARC renovations come from? Can we assume that none of the aforementioned fundraising campaign funds raised to date will be used? So that is right back to a lead donor . . .
I hope I am wrong, but it would seem that we are in the fledgling stages of shifting our focus from GENERAL STUDENT BODY (rec center) to ATHLETICS and that LaBarbera and friends have a long road ahead of them to raise the necessary funds? On the surface that is at least good news that a shift of focus is taking place, but doesn't mean it happens before 2028 either!!!!! haha
Maybe Doug Elgin (The Commish) spoke out of turn and was simply putting pressure on the VU board with those comments and now we are "reacting". Either way, hope that volleyball is permanently moved up to Hilltop Gym and that we find a fix for permanent lower bowl. That does take away from rec leagues with VU students though by reducing the number of courts available. What other issues do we have by gaining a permanent lower seating setup? The lutheran boys tournament? What else?
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 29, 2018, 07:53:59 AM
Quote from: vu72 on September 28, 2018, 09:20:45 PM
Met with a very high ranking person tonight and had a discussion regarding the Commissioner's comments regarding ARC improvements. The idea of building the REC center first has been scratched as it would cost in the area of $30-35 million. That isn't in the cards, for a long time. So there should be an announcement soon regarding plans to upgrade the ARC including, new seating, air conditioning, new lighting and enhanced concessions. That's all I know for tonight.
As a side note, had the chance to watch the volleyball team easily beat a Drake team tonight. A very good crowd (761) and 20 kids in the pep band. If you have the chance to catch a volleyball match don't pass it up. It is very entertaining! First place baby!
I've always thought along the same logical lines. Say, what, $5 million ? That investment now in 2018 dollars vs. saving up $35 million over 10 years and building something with 2028 dollars seems like a better choice.
Regarding the student rec center, that is sorely needed IMO. Sad to hear of it's relegation to 10+ years potentially if that is indeed the plan. Though as we all know, lead gifts stimulate long forgotten projects rapidly so there is always hope there!
Sadly $35,000,0000 sounds like a minimum investment to get what they want out of this. I still think the priority list for my long since graduated mind is:
1) Dormitory improvement (AC and the like)
2) Student Recreation Center
3) ARC rennovations
Maybe it's prudent to go after lower hanging fruit while you can. As far as costs go, I can only assume the list goes something like:
1) Student Rec Center $35 million+
2) Dormitory improvement $10 million+
3) ARC renovations $5 to $10 million
https://twitter.com/nwi/status/1046059648418287617
Valpo dedicates renovation of historic Hilltop Gym
Bob Kasarda
2 hrs ago
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/education/valpdedicates-renovation-of-historic-hilltop-gym/article_c4141a59-6b6b-5931-ad9a-0717fc305e37.html?utm_content=buffer14686&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=LEEDCC
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on September 29, 2018, 09:38:11 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 29, 2018, 07:53:59 AM
Quote from: vu72 on September 28, 2018, 09:20:45 PM
Met with a very high ranking person tonight and had a discussion regarding the Commissioner's comments regarding ARC improvements. The idea of building the REC center first has been scratched as it would cost in the area of $30-35 million. That isn't in the cards, for a long time. So there should be an announcement soon regarding plans to upgrade the ARC including, new seating, air conditioning, new lighting and enhanced concessions. That's all I know for tonight.
As a side note, had the chance to watch the volleyball team easily beat a Drake team tonight. A very good crowd (761) and 20 kids in the pep band. If you have the chance to catch a volleyball match don't pass it up. It is very entertaining! First place baby!
I've always thought along the same logical lines. Say, what, $5 million ? That investment now in 2018 dollars vs. saving up $35 million over 10 years and building something with 2028 dollars seems like a better choice.
Regarding the student rec center, that is sorely needed IMO. Sad to hear of it's relegation to 10+ years potentially if that is indeed the plan. Though as we all know, lead gifts stimulate long forgotten projects rapidly so there is always hope there!
Sadly $35,000,0000 sounds like a minimum investment to get what they want out of this. I still think the priority list for my long since graduated mind is:
1) Dormitory improvement (AC and the like)
2) Student Recreation Center
3) ARC rennovations
Maybe it's prudent to go after lower hanging fruit while you can. As far as costs go, I can only assume the list goes something like:
1) Student Rec Center $35 million+
2) Dormitory improvement $10 million+
3) ARC renovations $5 to $10 million
Budget $6.5 million for the ARC. For another $3.5 million ($2mm for the new artificial turf field w/ grandstands and pressbox and $1.5mm for the bubble based on a $1/sq./ft. cost that includes a permanent support facility (including space for air blowers, air locks for access, storage of the bubble etc.), construct on the Porter property a sorely needed soccer stadium that would accomodate a full sized inflateable bubble. Erect the bubble at the close of each soccer season. Use the bubble for recreation and intramurals as well as off-season varsity teams (baseball, softball, T&F ). Total investment for both the ARC and field/bubble ($10 million) would be < 1/3 the cost of the "rec center" alone, would provided the same services and sets up the total physical plant for at least an entire decade if not more.
Interesting article from Crains Cleveland on University of Akron Athletics and the pressures when the university is facing cost pressures. Former alum and Commissioner of the MAC, Dr Jon Steinbrecher is quoted. Subscription based: https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-business/university-akron-tries-tackle-sports-dilemma?utm_source=akron-morning-roundup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20181008&utm_content=article7-headline (https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-business/university-akron-tries-tackle-sports-dilemma?utm_source=akron-morning-roundup&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20181008&utm_content=article7-headline)
That was a good article, 84. What I got out of it was that an institution can still do the things it needs to do to remain competitive and to maintain or improve their physical assets. The keys to that are:
1) precise evaluation of the existing plant in the context of current and furure needs,
2) common sense prioritization of needs,
3) strategic decision making to fulfill those needs and
4) frugality in spending that achieves what the institution can "live with," i.e., not necessarily buying a Ferrari when a Ford would work just as well.
The pipe dream of a $30+ million rec center is so far out of the picture for Valpo's current (or even future) means. And, even if clung to, it still would mean that the ARC would have to be addressed -- in 2028 dollars to boot. Therefore, I do think the Rec Center idea needs to be shelved and, if a lead donor with that kind of money appears, fine, then build it. But for right now, there are more urgent needs that a university like Valpo needs to address. Much smaller, but timely and significant investments in the ARC (the arena especially) and in an all-weather recreation and athletic facility that expands and augments current space is needed for all students. It would be something Valpo's administration can point to with pride, and it allows Valpo, as an institution, to demonstrate to its stake holders (athletes, coaches, students, faculty, alums, local friends, athletic opponents and the MVC) its commitment to athletics and recreation.
Indeed you just can't deny that athletics will always struggle for priority at the non-P5 schools as it usually is a "loss leader" for the university.
Unfortunately, this is a tale of "haves" and "have nots" and the massive differential is football and football TV money. Just few dozen P5 programs even net a profit in NCAA basketball. I think we've walked through this issue many times.
The Akron issues led me to speculate about SLU because I had been seeing somewhere that they had major financial issues. Thus "dropping" into the MVC which is roughly the equal of the A10 could please their faculty because it could dramatically decrease travel expense and possibly raise revenue from luring traveling fans from the other MVC schools. Conference "prestige" is a lot less tangible than it sounds in this world of realism and cold cash.
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 08, 2018, 04:29:11 PM
Indeed you just can't deny that athletics will always struggle for priority at the non-P5 schools as it usually is a "loss leader" for the university.
Unfortunately, this is a tale of "haves" and "have nots" and the massive differential is football and football TV money. Just few dozen P5 programs even net a profit in NCAA basketball. I think we've walked through this issue many times.
The Akron issues led me to speculate about SLU because I had been seeing somewhere that they had major financial issues. Thus "dropping" into the MVC which is roughly the equal of the A10 could please their faculty because it could dramatically decrease travel expense and possibly raise revenue from luring traveling fans from the other MVC schools. Conference "prestige" is a lot less tangible than it sounds in this world of realism and cold cash.
Many D1 programs are bleeding in the red. It's far more common then people think, it's why I find it somewhat laughable when people say that student-athletes should get paid. There would be only be a few dozen of schools that could sustain themselves or there would be widespread layoffs across athletics and they'd have to do away or pair down Title 9 standards for collegiate athletics (which isn't going to happen). Coaches would also be getting a fat pay cut, which might not be a bad thing.
For schools like Valpo it's financially responsible to throw all or most of your finite resources into basketball. It's the only program that can bring returns and raise the schools profile in a way to boost enrollment and get on the map from national standpoint. It's harsh but true.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 08, 2018, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on October 08, 2018, 04:29:11 PM
Indeed you just can't deny that athletics will always struggle for priority at the non-P5 schools as it usually is a "loss leader" for the university.
Unfortunately, this is a tale of "haves" and "have nots" and the massive differential is football and football TV money. Just few dozen P5 programs even net a profit in NCAA basketball. I think we've walked through this issue many times.
The Akron issues led me to speculate about SLU because I had been seeing somewhere that they had major financial issues. Thus "dropping" into the MVC which is roughly the equal of the A10 could please their faculty because it could dramatically decrease travel expense and possibly raise revenue from luring traveling fans from the other MVC schools. Conference "prestige" is a lot less tangible than it sounds in this world of realism and cold cash.
Many D1 programs are bleeding in the red. It's far more common then people think, it's why I find it somewhat laughable when people say that student-athletes should get paid. There would be only be a few dozen of schools that could sustain themselves or there would be widespread layoffs across athletics and they'd have to do away or pair down Title 9 standards for collegiate athletics (which isn't going to happen). Coaches would also be getting a fat pay cut, which might not be a bad thing.
For schools like Valpo it's financially responsible to throw all or most of your finite resources into basketball. It's the only program that can bring returns and raise the schools profile in a way to boost enrollment and get on the map from national standpoint. It's harsh but true.
Most accounting of the revenues and expenses at institutions is such that you essentially just make the revenues equal the costs and call it good, so it's sometimes tough to tell on those programs who is actually making money vs. losing money.
I do think though if schools had to start paying players, there would be a lot of schools taking a hard look at whether or not football is feasible any longer. Basketball is much easier to justify with only 13 scholarships, but I think once the one and done rule is gone and players don't have to go to college, that should at least delay that from happening.
I wish people would get past the "paid" thing. They are getting paid. At Valpo they're getting paid the equivalent of $50,000/year. Technically, it's called cost avoidance, but it amounts to the same thing. Maybe these people would better understand if the university issued a 50k check to each student athlete, who in turn endorses it and gives it back.
Quote from: wh on October 08, 2018, 08:28:32 PM
I wish people would get past the "paid" thing. They are getting paid. At Valpo they're getting paid the equivalent of $50,000/year. Technically, it's called cost avoidance, but it amounts to the same thing. Maybe these people would better understand if the university issued a 50k check to each student athlete, who in turn endorses it and gives it back.
Beyond that, most schools (not sure if Valpo is included in this) are giving their players stipends (most range from $2,000 to $5,000) each year.
I have no problem with kids making money off of their likeness as the kids who would be able to do that are probably already getting cash under the table from boosters. I do think under that model that the vast majority of athletes though won't get much beyond what they're getting now. When I was in school, I was happy to continue my athletic career, be a part of the team and get tons of free gear and get to travel to places I'd never been before. But I also don't come from the same circumstances as some of the kids playing major college football and basketball, so I can't judge their views on these things.
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 09, 2018, 06:43:55 AM
Beyond that, most schools (not sure if Valpo is included in this) are giving their players stipends (most range from $2,000 to $5,000) each year.
I recall this discussion from a while ago and I am quite certain that Valpo does give this stipend to players.
I scraped this retweet off of MLB's Twitter feed.
[tweet]1046053132990590977[/tweet]
Good to see robotics still going strong, but the reason for posting the tweet is the wide angle picture of the reburbished Hilltop practice facility. It looked really nice and, as far as I can remember, it is a major upgrade to what was there before. Better lighting immediately comes to mind, plus a lot of work being done on the floor as well as the walls. Looks brand new in this photo. Did anyone visit the renovated gym during homecoming and can comment on the make-over?
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 09, 2018, 03:59:16 PMDid anyone visit the renovated gym during homecoming and can comment on the make-over?
I did. There are no bleacher left. There is a solid wall going up to the ceiling to wall off the softball hitting cages which previously were only separated from the gym by netting (the wall facing the signature). Great lighting and, of course, air conditioning!
Quote from: vu72 on October 09, 2018, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 09, 2018, 03:59:16 PMDid anyone visit the renovated gym during homecoming and can comment on the make-over?
I did. There are no bleacher left. There is a solid wall going up to the ceiling to wall off the softball hitting cages which previously were only separated from the gym by netting (the wall facing the signature). Great lighting and, of course, air conditioning!
If there are no bleachers left, I wonder what they will do for the LBAA national tournament. Many of the bigger games before the finals, which are played on the main court, where played before packed crowds in Hilltop. Not having bleachers will certainly change things for that tournament.
Quote from: FWalum on October 10, 2018, 07:51:05 AM
Quote from: vu72 on October 09, 2018, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 09, 2018, 03:59:16 PMDid anyone visit the renovated gym during homecoming and can comment on the make-over?
I did. There are no bleacher left. There is a solid wall going up to the ceiling to wall off the softball hitting cages which previously were only separated from the gym by netting (the wall facing the signature). Great lighting and, of course, air conditioning!
If there are no bleachers left, I wonder what they will do for the LBAA national tournament. Many of the bigger games before the finals, which are played on the main court, where played before packed crowds in Hilltop. Not having bleachers will certainly change things for that tournament.
What was the capacity that was eliminated? If we are looking at a couple of hundred bench seats, temporary bleachers could be rented to cover that situation.
But wait! Maybe the bare walls are waiting to receive repurposed bleachers (maybe even the chairbacks) from the main ARC floor once the bowl is redone ;)
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 10, 2018, 09:29:09 AM
Quote from: FWalum on October 10, 2018, 07:51:05 AM
Quote from: vu72 on October 09, 2018, 05:09:09 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 09, 2018, 03:59:16 PMDid anyone visit the renovated gym during homecoming and can comment on the make-over?
I did. There are no bleacher left. There is a solid wall going up to the ceiling to wall off the softball hitting cages which previously were only separated from the gym by netting (the wall facing the signature). Great lighting and, of course, air conditioning!
If there are no bleachers left, I wonder what they will do for the LBAA national tournament. Many of the bigger games before the finals, which are played on the main court, where played before packed crowds in Hilltop. Not having bleachers will certainly change things for that tournament.
What was the capacity that was eliminated? If we are looking at a couple of hundred bench seats, temporary bleachers could be rented to cover that situation.
But wait! Maybe the bare walls are waiting to receive repurposed bleachers (maybe even the chairbacks) from the main ARC floor once the bowl is redone ;)
I'm guessing temp seating can be brought in. The ARC has two games going at a time so no bleacher seats are available as would be the case in the upstairs gym and now Hilltop.
Apples and Oranges, but the $5M-$10M range of costs probably isn't too far off of what it would cost to renovate the ARC currently. Biggest chunk of Butler's project (IMO) is putting AC throughout Hinkle: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2018/10/19/butler-basketball-get-new-practice-facility-hinkle-fieldhouse/1688220002/
Quote from: IrishDawg on October 19, 2018, 10:06:13 AM
Apples and Oranges, but the $5M-$10M range of costs probably isn't too far off of what it would cost to renovate the ARC currently. Biggest chunk of Butler's project (IMO) is putting AC throughout Hinkle: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2018/10/19/butler-basketball-get-new-practice-facility-hinkle-fieldhouse/1688220002/
What? You mean to tell us that even mighty Butler doesn't have air-conditioning in their main arena? ;)
Comparable to renovating the ARC.
https://twitter.com/KDKA/status/1054547961500311552
Quote from: VU2014 on October 23, 2018, 04:48:47 PM
Comparable to renovating the ARC.
https://twitter.com/KDKA/status/1054547961500311552
Comparable in what regard?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 23, 2018, 08:01:52 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 23, 2018, 04:48:47 PM
Comparable to renovating the ARC.
https://twitter.com/KDKA/status/1054547961500311552
Comparable in what regard?
I've been to the Palumbo Center and it's a pretty similar facility, especially from an arena seating set up. A major difference it that Palumbo had more chairbacks. It's been quite a while since I've been there.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 23, 2018, 08:22:22 PMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 23, 2018, 08:01:52 PMQuote from: VU2014 on October 23, 2018, 04:48:47 PMComparable to renovating the ARC. https://twitter.com/KDKA/status/1054547961500311552
Comparable in what regard?
I've been to the Palumbo Center and it's a pretty similar facility, especially from an arena seating set up. A major difference it that Palumbo had more chairbacks. It's been quite a while since I've been there.
This image is pretty close to how I have always envisioned the ARC should be renovated on the chairback side (box seats where the track is behind it)
(https://cbspittsburgh.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/duquesne-university-palumbo-center-1.jpg)
Quote from: vuny98 on October 24, 2018, 10:52:10 AM
This image is pretty close to how I have always envisioned the ARC should be renovated on the chairback side (box seats where the track is behind it)
(https://cbspittsburgh.files.wordpress.com/2018/10/duquesne-university-palumbo-center-1.jpg)
That looks great and would be a super addition to the ARC (but probably would look like just the first level above the general seating in the illustration.
The Hilltop Gym/ARC is severely over-utilized and internal support facilities are overcrowded and overtaxed. It was designed for a 1987 era of collegiate sports. That was over 30 years ago. Since then, even more things have been crammed into those areas. Rod Moore told me about three years ago that the ARC training room facilities alone were designed to serve 250 athletes and they do 3X that now.
With that in mind, the next phase of ARC renovation must include IMO an addition on the north side behind the current chairbacks. At minimum it should include ground level facilities like maybe new locker rooms and new concessions off both the east and west ends of the addition. that would allow training room expansion and modernization in its present location on the south side of the arena. By popping out that addition, it would also provide for a second level where the track is now that could accommodate private boxes/suites or additional retractable seating (needed to retain the current capacity if the lower bowl were to be converted to retractable chairbacks which priobably are wider than bleacher seat spacing on the N, S and E sides -- the Valpoaraizone would just be upgraded bleachers I would assume).
Suites would be permanent, of course, but there would be additonal space behind them for possibly staff offices, a lounge for suite guests, meeting space, or whatever. If retractable bench seating were installed, instead, the space available when the bleachers were retracted could possibly provide more practice space like is done on the south side.
No way Valpo throws $45 million at this like Duquesne is doing. WAG guess is that this whole thing as described will be much more than $5 million and as much as maybe $15 million. But it sets up the university athletic program for the next 20 years. And by phasing this development over two years, no BB games would be lost in the main arena (if there is schedule slippage, the VB games could temporarily move to Hilltop). For example:
Phase 1 -- year 1
Construct 2 story weather tight addition adjacent to north exterior wall of ARC independent of the existing interior (start anytime and complete interior of first level leaving second level for phase 2))
Replace arena seating around Homer Drew Court with retractable chairbacks and replace existing retractable bleachers on the south side second level with new. (Done concurrently with addition construction; install between the end of BB season and the beginning of next Volleyball season)
Phase 2 -- year 2
Move some locker rooms to new addition (start as soon as first level construction is completed)
Open upper north wall to new addition (start at end of next BB season)
Build out second level interior spaces and tie into existing arena and complete all door ways and exits to connect and integrate new addition with old facility (complete by beginning of next Volleyball season
Phase 3 -- year 2 plus
Renovate the old south side ground floor space to expand training room and expand remaning locker rooms.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1057062496387952640
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1057062498233434113
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1057062983476695042
All well and good. But having watched my alma mater for over 50 years, I have yet to see a future vision promoted in terms of detailed conceptual drawings of what might be. There appears to be no one on this planet, including the athletic department and the university administration, who has the slightest idea of what the ARC could look like in 2023. That is because it seems no one in positions of responsibility has an imagination that can be translated to conceptual images that can be shared with alumni and friends. Or no one is willing to pay someone who does to produce them. These are not etched-in-stone commitments; these are ideas set on paper that can be used to stimulate thought, generate support and, more importantly, encourage financial donations toward that image.
The key to excitement is communicating what could be. Excitement is not generated by stating that we need money to do something that we don't quite have an idea of exactly what we want to do.
A typically well written article by Paul and always appreciate ML's comments, but we all know if he had any say in these matters they would have been resolved long ago. This is like interviewing me on my next family vacation. I can tell you what I think and what I'd like to do, but everyone knows it's my wife's decision.
COLLEGE BASKETBALL: Valparaiso considering ARC renovations in wake of move to Valley
Paul Oren Times Correspondent
9 hrs ago
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/college-basketball-valparaiso-considering-arc-renovations-in-wake-of-move/article_8b66d396-7d78-5302-9728-c02a5a03ca33.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1057263015614132224
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on October 30, 2018, 07:24:02 AM
A typically well written article by Paul and always appreciate ML's comments, but we all know if he had any say in these matters they would have been resolved long ago. This is like interviewing me on my next family vacation. I can tell you what I think and what I'd like to do, but everyone knows it's my wife's decision.
ML's comments complement and reflect recent conversations that have taken place among those in upper administration.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 29, 2018, 09:59:30 PM
All well and good. But having watched my alma mater for over 50 years, I have yet to see a future vision promoted in terms of detailed conceptual drawings of what might be. There appears to be no one on this planet, including the athletic department and the university administration, who has the slightest idea of what the ARC could look like in 2023. That is because it seems no one in positions of responsibility has an imagination that can be translated to conceptual images that can be shared with alumni and friends. Or no one is willing to pay someone who does to produce them. These are not etched-in-stone commitments; these are ideas set on paper that can be used to stimulate thought, generate support and, more importantly, encourage financial donations toward that image.
The key to excitement is communicating what could be. Excitement is not generated by stating that we need money to do something that we don't quite have an idea of exactly what we want to do.
If laporte ave apostle were still around and maintaining the "best posts" list, this post would go to the top.
Quote from: VU2014 on October 30, 2018, 08:30:15 AM
COLLEGE BASKETBALL: Valparaiso considering ARC renovations in wake of move to Valley
Paul Oren Times Correspondent
9 hrs ago
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/college-basketball-valparaiso-considering-arc-renovations-in-wake-of-move/article_8b66d396-7d78-5302-9728-c02a5a03ca33.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1057263015614132224
Interesting, but doesn't really tell me much about the ARC renovation/replacement. I'm probably missing something, but I'm not sure what a full paragraph comparing various attendance numbers between Valpo, MVC schools and Horizon League schools tells me about facilities. In case nobody noticed, we're in the MVC, not the Horizon.
Expressing that Valpo's facilities are lacking compared to other MVC schools is hardly a news flash. As #62 so clearly explained, general discussions of things that might happen at some unspecified point in the future hardly generate excitement. Hard to get people excited and in the giving mood until there is more than just talk.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on October 30, 2018, 07:24:02 AM
A typically well written article by Paul and always appreciate ML's comments, but we all know if he had any say in these matters they would have been resolved long ago. This is like interviewing me on my next dream family vacation. I can tell you what I think and what I'd like to do, but everyone knows it's my wife's decision.
Good analogy, except one key difference. ML isn't talking about his "next" vacation. He's talking about his "dream" vacation. "I would love to take a trip around the world. Q. Where are you going to go? A. Don't know yet. When are you planning on going? A. Don't know yet. Q. How much does a trip around the world cost? A. Depends on where you go and how much time you spend. Q. How much do you have to spend? A. None. Q. Well, how are you going to pay for it? A. Don't know yet. Q. So, how serious are you about this. A. Very serious. We've worked very hard over many years and it's high time we do something nice for ourselves. Q. Did you ever think of playing the lottery. A. Great idea!
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 30, 2018, 01:00:47 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 30, 2018, 08:30:15 AM
COLLEGE BASKETBALL: Valparaiso considering ARC renovations in wake of move to Valley
Paul Oren Times Correspondent
9 hrs ago
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/college-basketball-valparaiso-considering-arc-renovations-in-wake-of-move/article_8b66d396-7d78-5302-9728-c02a5a03ca33.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1057263015614132224
Interesting, but doesn't really tell me much about the ARC renovation/replacement. I'm probably missing something, but I'm not sure what a full paragraph comparing various attendance numbers between Valpo, MVC schools and Horizon League schools tells me about facilities. In case nobody noticed, we're in the MVC, not the Horizon.
Expressing that Valpo's facilities are lacking compared to other MVC schools is hardly a news flash. As #62 so clearly explained, general discussions of things that might happen at some unspecified point in the future hardly generate excitement. Hard to get people excited and in the giving mood until there is more than just talk.
Could be Valpo using media to get out word of an opportunity for donors to step forward in the business community. Not all news stories have the same intentions.
Also might we expect to see the marketing (brand) company we recently contracted with involved in the "naming" options out there? Not saying we generate much here but every little bit helps.
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 30, 2018, 01:00:47 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on October 30, 2018, 08:30:15 AM
COLLEGE BASKETBALL: Valparaiso considering ARC renovations in wake of move to Valley
Paul Oren Times Correspondent
9 hrs ago
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/college-basketball-valparaiso-considering-arc-renovations-in-wake-of-move/article_8b66d396-7d78-5302-9728-c02a5a03ca33.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1057263015614132224
Interesting, but doesn't really tell me much about the ARC renovation/replacement. I'm probably missing something, but I'm not sure what a full paragraph comparing various attendance numbers between Valpo, MVC schools and Horizon League schools tells me about facilities. In case nobody noticed, we're in the MVC, not the Horizon.
Expressing that Valpo's facilities are lacking compared to other MVC schools is hardly a news flash. As #62 so clearly explained, general discussions of things that might happen at some unspecified point in the future hardly generate excitement. Hard to get people excited and in the giving mood until there is more than just talk.
LaBarbera made a comment about how Valpo's facilities were behind in the Horizon League, but because Valpo drew so many more fans than the rest of the conference, those facility issues weren't quite an issue. That was the inference. For all the warts the ARC has, the crowds were typically larger than your average Horizon League opponent. Now in the Valley, Valparaiso had the second-lowest average attendance last year (behind Final Four Loyola). I included the attendance numbers because I wanted to give some background to LaBarbera's claim about how well Valpo drew as compared to the rest of the Horizon League and allow the fans to ascertain that now Valpo's attendance figures are abysmal compared to the rest of the Valley. Would a new/renovated facility generate interest, increase attendance? That seems to be the new line of thinking from the school. Whereas Valpo was behind in facilities as compared to Horizon League programs, the school is getting lapped compared to Valley schools. That was the reason for the comparison.
And I will double down and expand upon my previous post.
There is absolutely no doubt that Valpo will eventually get to the point where the ARC will be renovated and possibly expanded. EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT. In fact everybody knew that years ago. Here is my beef. Before you start planning your Dream Vacation (as WH so accurately depicted), the first thing you do is do some basic, ballpark research to see what might be feasible. And the way you do it in this case is to invest maybe $100K in an architectural study of the ARC.
Typically, the first stage is to characterize the "as-is" condition. This assessment identifies the strengths, weaknesses and challenges represented by the current facility as it exists today. This first stage also characterizes the as-is environment in which this facility exists.
The second stage is to characterize the "to-be" condition. This involves identifying needs (of the ARC as well as its place within the overall campus master plan) going into the future; say, 10 years out.
The third stage of the study is to determine the gap between the "as-is" and the "to-be" and assign approximate costs.
The final stage is to document conclusions and recommended options. It is done in two parts: (1) A written report articulating the architectural consultant's conclusions and recommended options supported by (2) conceptual renderings of the various options available to the university. This is the study's bottom line and what the university requires in order to knowledgeably plan their next moves -- i.e., implement all, part or nothing.
When you are considering a multimillion dollar effort (and still don't know how many multi-million), the first thing you do is commision a study such as this. It is a no-brainer. Use the Loyola share to fund all or part of it, but do it now. The longer the university sits on this first step the behinder it gets in moving forward and whipping up excitement for the project.
This is my story and I am sticking to it. 8-)
ML needs to contact Richard Landry in DC.
Quote from: Pgmado on October 30, 2018, 01:33:07 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on October 30, 2018, 01:00:47 PM
Interesting, but doesn't really tell me much about the ARC renovation/replacement. I'm probably missing something, but I'm not sure what a full paragraph comparing various attendance numbers between Valpo, MVC schools and Horizon League schools tells me about facilities. In case nobody noticed, we're in the MVC, not the Horizon.
Expressing that Valpo's facilities are lacking compared to other MVC schools is hardly a news flash. As #62 so clearly explained, general discussions of things that might happen at some unspecified point in the future hardly generate excitement. Hard to get people excited and in the giving mood until there is more than just talk.
LaBarbera made a comment about how Valpo's facilities were behind in the Horizon League, but because Valpo drew so many more fans than the rest of the conference, those facility issues weren't quite an issue. That was the inference. For all the warts the ARC has, the crowds were typically larger than your average Horizon League opponent. Now in the Valley, Valparaiso had the second-lowest average attendance last year (behind Final Four Loyola). I included the attendance numbers because I wanted to give some background to LaBarbera's claim about how well Valpo drew as compared to the rest of the Horizon League and allow the fans to ascertain that now Valpo's attendance figures are abysmal compared to the rest of the Valley. Would a new/renovated facility generate interest, increase attendance? That seems to be the new line of thinking from the school. Whereas Valpo was behind in facilities as compared to Horizon League programs, the school is getting lapped compared to Valley schools. That was the reason for the comparison.
Thanks for the clarification.
Quote from: tiny707 on October 30, 2018, 03:34:44 PM
ML needs to contact Richard Landry in DC.
The megamansion architect? Snark Snark :lol:
But there are firms that specialize in sports arenas and they should be called. Best, call around the mid major world to find the best guys who know mid major needs.
BTW, Few if any proposed studies of this type are unbounded. Valpo can set boundaries so that a megamansion is out of scope and renovations are projected within Valpo's ability to fund.
FWIW, the building was designed when it was built so that the north wall can be removed to accommodate an addition without having to take down the roof line (unless VU wants to do that). That's a fact and is easily verifiable looking through documents/news coverage from the first few years after the ARC opened. Whether that remains a viable option or not after 35 years of use is another question.
Great article by Paul as always, and glad to see the university at least talking about this, and recognizing the urgency.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on October 31, 2018, 05:05:53 PM
FWIW, the building was designed when it was built so that the north wall can be removed to accommodate an addition without having to take down the roof line (unless VU wants to do that). That's a fact and is easily verifiable looking through documents/news coverage from the first few years after the ARC opened. Whether that remains a viable option or not after 35 years of use is another question.
Great article by Paul as always, and glad to see the university at least talking about this, and recognizing the urgency.
Absolutely. You can see it as you look up as you walk in. The roof is supported by the the big girder between the two large pillars. And in the 30 year master plan you can see on the campus map an addition to the north.
It is already set up to suport the next expansion. That is why the logical move is to add on to the north side to reduce the crowding in the existing facility.
QuoteIt is already set up to suport the next expansion. That is why the logical move is to add on to the north side to reduce the crowding in the existing facility.
Yep. I've always thought the perfect-world scenario for a renovation was as follows:
-Install chairbacks 360 degrees around the court, including the east end
-Knock out north wall. Build a new mezzanine with suites on top to make up for lost capacity with conversion to chairbacks from bleachers/wider aisles/etc. (and ideally, add 800 - 1,000 to the capacity, so you are building for future growth, too). Add new corporate seating option revenue stream.
-Build larger entrance lobby behind new mezzanine, with additional restrooms and new concessions (eliminating the need for the slap-dash concession stand behind the east basket). Ticket office could be built and relocated here, freeing up space by the Union St. entrance for concessions or other amenities.
-Build two extra practice courts/new lockerrooms underneath new lobby (i.e. fans would enter the arena at track level). This would limit availability conflicts and would enable more rec space for students during offseason).
-Cut entryways into wall behind original mezzanine, allowing for fans to access via tunnels, allowing re-angling of those seats so that they can be pulled out all the way across the track, improving sightlines and egress.
Boom. You have a 21st-Century facility that's now worthy of the Valley and the next 35 years.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 24, 2018, 01:07:43 PM
With that in mind, the next phase of ARC renovation must include IMO an addition on the north side behind the current chairbacks. At minimum it should include ground level facilities like maybe new locker rooms and new concessions off both the east and west ends of the addition. that would allow training room expansion and modernization in its present location on the south side of the arena. By popping out that addition, it would also provide for a second level where the track is now that could accommodate private boxes/suites or additional retractable seating (needed to retain the current capacity if the lower bowl were to be converted to retractable chairbacks which priobably are wider than bleacher seat spacing on the N, S and E sides -- the Valpoaraizone would just be upgraded bleachers I would assume).
Suites would be permanent, of course, but there would be additonal space behind them for possibly staff offices, a lounge for suite guests, meeting space, or whatever. If retractable bench seating were installed, instead, the space available when the bleachers were retracted could possibly provide more practice space like is done on the south side.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on November 01, 2018, 12:53:22 PM
QuoteIt is already set up to suport the next expansion. That is why the logical move is to add on to the north side to reduce the crowding in the existing facility.
Yep. I've always thought the perfect-world scenario for a renovation was as follows:
-Install chairbacks 360 degrees around the court, including the east end
-Knock out north wall. Build a new mezzanine with suites on top to make up for lost capacity with conversion to chairbacks from bleachers/wider aisles/etc. (and ideally, add 800 - 1,000 to the capacity, so you are building for future growth, too). Add new corporate seating option revenue stream.
-Build larger entrance lobby behind new mezzanine, with additional restrooms and new concessions (eliminating the need for the slap-dash concession stand behind the east basket). Ticket office could be built and relocated here, freeing up space by the Union St. entrance for concessions or other amenities.
-Build two extra practice courts/new lockerrooms underneath new lobby (i.e. fans would enter the arena at track level). This would limit availability conflicts and would enable more rec space for students during offseason).
-Cut entryways into wall behind original mezzanine, allowing for fans to access via tunnels, allowing re-angling of those seats so that they can be pulled out all the way across the track, improving sightlines and egress.
Boom. You have a 21st-Century facility that's now worthy of the Valley and the next 35 years.
We are in accord on this. Between these two sets of ideas lies a newly rennovated and expanded ARC. And I also like the idea of selling naming rights to the arena itself -- something like Thrivent Arena at the ARC. If/when a building project is initiated, that would be a great time to go after corporations for something like that.
As disappointed as i am about losing to UIndy, I am more disappointed that for yet another year the ARC sound system absolutely stinks. I sure would love to be able to hear every word that John Bowker says, but alas that will not happen this year, it seems.
PA system over AC! Yes!
FWIW UNI released more renderings of our new practice facility. I expect construction to be announced soon ish and start in the spring (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/0a5a88f7a680eb30151c4deed69c3e79.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/c64224143f0ba0d7fd8b09e7b18b6189.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/a80f4dfdfc7811f106521c5c89cc75c5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/ac19962e35aff560e7d2b3bbe3057dd5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/a8229b262492745317d590a4692d0f91.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/10ec5dbe5d02d353253ba374ba43feec.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/7235df1c432c00e88208edecb3beafdc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/c0f1679535774cbe34eb31f8785e5cc3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/bcc20e250e592444664abcc7b44962e2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/9971268c5529c080700e904aa0555135.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/5897d018be7c2efdf83ad0963eb46303.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181103/3d06c815c4f16287b3c5036fc6afc2c6.jpg)
Yet to be seen is the renderings of the remodel to the McLeod Center with how it will be connected
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 30, 2018, 01:20:43 PMAlso might we expect to see the marketing (brand) company we recently contracted with involved in the "naming" options out there? Not saying we generate much here but every little bit helps.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 01, 2018, 02:04:14 PMAnd I also like the idea of selling naming rights to the arena itself -- something like Thrivent Arena at the ARC. If/when a building project is initiated, that would be a great time to go after corporations for something like that.
I would not be surprised to see some news on the idea of naming rights to the ARC in the next year or two. This has been a topic discussed by the Board of Directors over the past few years. With the contract with the new marketing company, I imagine this was on the list of items for them to pursue.
Another interesting article I came across with a Valpo connection - https://www.nwitimes.com/business/lake-newsletter/centier-turns-highest-quarterly-profit-in-its--year-history/article_ab70e93a-a041-5992-a322-a2e16f154201.html
From near the end of the article - "Centier's recent philanthropy in the community included a $250,000 donation to the National Mascot Hall of Fame in Whiting and a "significant sponsorship" for Valparaiso University athletics' 2018-19 season."
No chance in hell Gus lets this pass him by. "Welcome to Family Express Arena!"
A few natural Regional fits for the naming rights of the ARC are:
-Centier Bank
-Family Express
-Thrivent Financial
-Kenneth J Allen Law Group
-Horseshoe Casino Hammond
-Lakeside Wealth Management (less so for naming rights but a smaller sponsorship makes all the sense in the world)
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 03, 2018, 06:46:41 PM
No chance in hell Gus lets this pass him by. "Welcome to Family Express Arena!"
Interesting Fact: Gus serves on the board of directors of Centier Bank.
The centier bank 3 pointer is back
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 01, 2018, 10:20:02 PM
PA system over AC! Yes!
With a new PA system we would have never lost to UIndy!
:(
Attended Mercer Game last night. Was completely blown away by their game day environment. Only 3500 seats, but the entire environment was so well run that it felt like more. Also, the arena was a part of a larger student athletic facility called University Center. Why Valpo is adamant that a new basketball arena has to come at the expense of a new student facility completely baffles me.
MU basketball arena.
Quote from: VUME on November 10, 2018, 07:26:19 AM
Attended Mercer Game last night. Was completely blown away by their game day environment. Only 3500 seats, but the entire environment was so well run that it felt like more. Also, the arena was a part of a larger student athletic facility called University Center. Why Valpo is adamant that a new basketball arena should come at the expense of a new student facility completely baffles me.
Oh I don't know, there are probably 35 million reason why.
Cannot tell if my pictures loaded or not. But please look up University Center if you get a chance.
For clarification, my confusion comes about as to why an updated basketball stadium and student athletic facilities are treated as mutually exclusive improvements. Perhaps I am out of the loop on this but I am curious.
As for the 35 million comment. Yes I understand the expense required of any facility. My confusion is why we cannot invest in both our student athletic facilities and the basketball facilities by building a single multi purpose facility as opposed to saying we need to invest in one over / before another.
Quote from: VUME on November 10, 2018, 09:43:56 AM
Cannot tell if my pictures loaded or not. But please look up University Center if you get a chance.
For clarification, my confusion comes about as to why an updated basketball stadium and student facilities are treated as mutually exclusive improvements. Perhaps I am out of the loop on this but I am curious.
As for the 35 million comment. Yes I understand the expense required of any facility. My confusion is why we cannot invest in both our student facilities and the basketball facilities by building a single multi purpose facility as opposed to saying we need to invest in one over / before another.
I believe the simple answer to that question is the required building footprint. To turn the current ARC structure into a multi purpose facility would require massive changes to the current facility and the removal of all structure and trees to the East of the ARC. This would most likely add a significant amount of expense to the project by having to change and accommodate the current structure which was designed to expand the arena to the North, but probably not expansion to the East.
Quote from: FWalum on November 10, 2018, 10:06:30 AMQuote from: VUME on November 10, 2018, 09:43:56 AMCannot tell if my pictures loaded or not. But please look up University Center if you get a chance. For clarification, my confusion comes about as to why an updated basketball stadium and student facilities are treated as mutually exclusive improvements. Perhaps I am out of the loop on this but I am curious. As for the 35 million comment. Yes I understand the expense required of any facility. My confusion is why we cannot invest in both our student facilities and the basketball facilities by building a single multi purpose facility as opposed to saying we need to invest in one over / before another.
I believe the simple answer to that question is the required building footprint. To turn the current ARC structure into a multi purpose facility would require massive changes to the current facility and the removal of all structure and trees to the East of the ARC. This would most likely add a significant amount of expense to the project by having to change and accommodate the current structure which was designed to expand the arena to the North, but probably not expansion to the East.
To build on this, ideally the main arena portion would not be open for students / intramural games , etc. So there would need to be a very large court area for those uses, along with ideally an upgraded pool, gym, racketball, etc. Trying to do all that in the ARC, even with an expansion, would be hard to do, clunky and costly. Would be better to build a separate facility (field house) to handle those needs that can be better spaced and more suitable to the needs of students. Unless that new facility also incorporated a new main arena (which would be awesome), but then you are essentially saying the ARC is obsolete and there would not be a need for it anymore, which is itself a huge waste. I have to believe a new field house + ARC renovation would be a lot less costly than a new all purpose facility large enough to do everything.
¥¥ The metro area population of Gary is 708 thousand. That includes Valpo as it is within a radius of 50 miles. The metro area population of Green Bay, Wi is about 300 thousand.
¥¥ I attended a Trans Siberian Orchestra show at the Resch Center in Green Bay yesterday that was one of two sold out performances. Acts like this like 6-8K arenas.
¥¥ The atmosphere and overall arena environment shouted big time. But it really wasn't. And that was ok. It was about what we were experiencing at the time.
¥¥ The Resch is constantly booked for all sorts of shows and activities that draw money to the local economy.
¥¥ Just by "accident," UWGB plays their home games there. Being the only DI in the area, they have cultivated a pretty good local following. I emphasize cultivate.
¥¥ Valpo could duplicate that. E'ville kinda did that with Roberts.
Maybe the solution really is to start pushing the local governments to build such an arena within say 10 miles of campus (shading the NW) with Valpo as a key tenant.
I never thought I would offer this but my experience living near GB has altered my perspective.
BTW, My previous post might aleviate financial pressures on Valpo to do it all by themselves. Just sayin....... it might be a win-win for the region.
Man, I never thought I'd say that, but living in the GB metro area has softened my perspective.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 16, 2018, 09:10:43 PM
My previous post might aleviate financial pressures on Valpo to do it all Just sayin.......
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 16, 2018, 08:55:00 PM
Maybe the solution really is to start pushing the local governments to build such an arena within say 10 miles of campus (shading the NW) with Valpo as a key tenant.
Such a facility is being seriously contemplated by White Lodging at the NW corner of the Rt. 30/I-65 intersection in Merrillville. They have already razed the Star Plaza Theater and Radison Hotel, and are scheduled to begin razing the Twin Towers next week.
Here's the back story:
Twin Towers superstructure demolition to start as soon as this week in Merrillville"White Lodging has pitched the $356 million The Farm at Crossroad Commons, a walkable town square-like development with a meeting and event center, four hotels, an office building, an underground parking garage, a townhouse, condos, two restaurants, a craft brewery and distillery, an art gallery, a visitors center, a greenhouse, a 30,000-square-foot horse-riding arena and 24,000 square feet of outdoor space. But White Lodging has asked $138 million in incentives from the town, county and state, including $75 million from a new 1 percent food and beverage tax in Lake County, which the Lake County Council has shown little appetite for.
"Should we secure the community's support, work would begin on our transformational The Farm at Crossroad Commons mixed-use development in 2019, starting with engineering," Banas said. "Actual construction would likely begin in late 2019 or early 2020. If we are unable to secure the community's support for The Farm, we will pursue our original single hotel plan."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nwitimes.com/business/lake-newsletter/twin-towers-superstructure-demolition-to-start-as-soon-as-this/article_aa57fbd8-bbe2-5c55-b228-dbc09c3b44ae.amp.html
An individual who is aware of some of the details told me that the entertainment center would have the ability to host a variety of sporting events similar to what major Las Vegas hotels (think MGM)do. I think he said it could accommodate up to 6000 people for basketball, but don't hold me to that. Maybe he said 5000. In any event, White is hugely successful with deep pockets and strong banking connections. The biggest problem, as I understand it, are local and county government officials understandably a bit in over their heads trying to understand the cost/benefit relationship of granting tax incentives for a multi-faceted commercial development of this magnitude, which also overlaps jurisdictions.
Valpo fans should follow this with interest because the word on the street is that this could be an opportunity for Valpo to play some marquee games there. Beyond that, I have no idea what interest the university might have, if any.
Quote from: wh on November 16, 2018, 10:37:33 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 16, 2018, 09:10:43 PM
My previous post might aleviate financial pressures on Valpo to do it all Just sayin.......
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 16, 2018, 08:55:00 PM
Maybe the solution really is to start pushing the local governments to build such an arena within say 10 miles of campus (shading the NW) with Valpo as a key tenant.
Such a facility is being seriously contemplated by White Lodging at the NW corner of the Rt. 30/I-65 intersection in Merrillville. They have already razed the Star Plaza Theater and Radison Hotel, and are scheduled to begin razing the Twin Towers next week.
Here's the back story:
Twin Towers superstructure demolition to start as soon as this week in Merrillville
"White Lodging has pitched the $356 million The Farm at Crossroad Commons, a walkable town square-like development with a meeting and event center, four hotels, an office building, an underground parking garage, a townhouse, condos, two restaurants, a craft brewery and distillery, an art gallery, a visitors center, a greenhouse, a 30,000-square-foot horse-riding arena and 24,000 square feet of outdoor space. But White Lodging has asked $138 million in incentives from the town, county and state, including $75 million from a new 1 percent food and beverage tax in Lake County, which the Lake County Council has shown little appetite for.
"Should we secure the community's support, work would begin on our transformational The Farm at Crossroad Commons mixed-use development in 2019, starting with engineering," Banas said. "Actual construction would likely begin in late 2019 or early 2020. If we are unable to secure the community's support for The Farm, we will pursue our original single hotel plan."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nwitimes.com/business/lake-newsletter/twin-towers-superstructure-demolition-to-start-as-soon-as-this/article_aa57fbd8-bbe2-5c55-b228-dbc09c3b44ae.amp.html
An individual who is aware of some of the details told me that the entertainment center would have the ability to host a variety of sporting events similar to what major Las Vegas hotels (think MGM)do. I think he said it could accommodate up to 6000 people for basketball, but don't hold me to that. Maybe he said 5000. In any event, White is hugely successful with deep pockets and strong banking connections. The biggest problem, as I understand it, are local and county government officials understandably a bit in over their heads trying to understand the cost/benefit relationship of granting tax incentives for a multi-faceted commercial development of this magnitude, which also overlaps jurisdictions.
Valpo fans should follow this with interest because the word on the street is that this could be an opportunity for Valpo to play some marquee games there. Beyond that, I have no idea what interest the university might have, if any.
If I were a Merrillville taxpayer I'd tell them to take a hike. The vast majority of these taxpayer subsidized projects never offer as much value as they claim. I'd be very skeptical of this pitch without even knowing most of the details.
I'm not sure I see much of a potential future benefit to Valpo Athletics from this. Maybe we play a few games over there but will they be paying the University to do so and will White Lodging be convincing big name opponents to play us there? We might as well just play at our home arena where we'd have a competitive advantage. I could see them hosting a small annual neutral site tournament but it wouldn't be much of a benefit to us unless they got some heavy hitters to play in it.
It sounds a lot like what they are doing in Rosemont, IL with All-State Arena and the Donald E. Stephens Convention Center. There is the Rosemont Entertainment District with different bars and an ice skating rink and a movie theater. If Merrillville could some how model that in the NW corner of the I-65 & US 30 interchange it would be a good start.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 16, 2018, 11:51:18 PMIf I were a Merrillville taxpayer I'd tell them to take a hike. The vast majority of these taxpayer subsidized projects never offer as much value as they claim. I'd be very skeptical of this pitch without even knowing most of the details.
Skeptical? You have a family who built a very successful hotel, entertainment complex, office building that lasted 40 years and transformed NWI and now wants to invest 200+M in the area again. I can't think of any projects like this in the US, certainly in NWI. It's amazing what this family has done and wants to do in the future for NWI.
Also, I believe they were a
significant donor for our new ARC floor. I don't rememeber hearing a word or any publicity about this.
Quote from: Chairback on November 17, 2018, 08:11:35 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 16, 2018, 11:51:18 PMIf I were a Merrillville taxpayer I'd tell them to take a hike. The vast majority of these taxpayer subsidized projects never offer as much value as they claim. I'd be very skeptical of this pitch without even knowing most of the details.
Skeptical? You have a family who built a very successful hotel, entertainment complex, office building that lasted 40 years and transformed NWI and now wants to invest 200+M in the area again. I can't think of any projects like this in the US, certainly in NWI. It's amazing what this family has done and wants to do in the future for NWI.
Also, I believe they were a significant donor for our new ARC floor. I don't rememeber hearing a word or any publicity about this.
How can you not be skeptical about major businesses asking for taxpayer dollars to fund these major projects? I'm not impugning that they have bad intentions. Maybe they could turn Merriville into the next Rosemont (minus the internal airport across the street).
There are just so many countless examples of taxpayers footing the bill for major projects that have overly rosey economic projections on the community. If they could turn that space into the next Rosemont it would be a economic boost from a tax generater over time.
Are you saying that a 6,000 seat arena would be a great venue for Valpo? I don't think so...if special opponents" would go there to play us in that size arena why wouldn't they play at Valpo if we had seating for about the same number? Doesn't make sense to me.
QuoteI'm not sure I see much of a potential future benefit to Valpo Athletics from this. Maybe we play a few games over there but will they be paying the University to do so and will White Lodging be convincing big name opponents to play us there?
That project sounds years away and unlikely to hapen, but if it gets off the ground sooner, it would give VU a place to play for part or all of one season when Valpo completes it's full renovation and expansion of the ARC. 8-)
Just jumping in that there was never a plan for an arena there in the final proposal. They wanted a large convention center, hotels, including more boutique styles and lots of restaurants/green space etc but no arena and unless something changes the 1% food and beverage tax increase is currently a no-go. Also, the company wasn't asking for subsidies, they were proposing a tax increase specifically to cover a 3rd of the cost (they would put up the other 2/3). This is a much smarter way to do something like this as it's a increase in revenue, not a decrease in revenue with the promise of bringing in more than you're losing in subsidies down the line.
That being said, the White Family, while huge Purdue boosters, have been very generous to the region but not really in Porter county, however I could see how many having an arena named after them would be too good to pass up, especially if they're in an ornery mood after what just happened here.
Enough about Merrillville. If you're interested in that, go to a Merrillville city council meeting or something.
Let's talk about the ARC and Valpo again. As season ticket holders for a second consecutive year, I've gotta day: it erks me to see the conditions of this arena. 1 of 2 things needs to happen.
1. Make an announcement if/when a partnership is forged and/or if/when improvements are in the works of being planned.
2. Make some cosmetic upgrades, if nothing else. And, don't tell me this and that about costs. They have the money. It's a choice on how it's spend and what they want to invest in. I'm a graduate. I'm well-aware if the tuition rates.
Look around. The tile all around the arena racked to all the walls? It's horrific. Ugly. Outdated. Embarrassing. Put up some drywall. Paint!
Brown is ugly and outdated - let's face it. The new yellow paint between the free throw line and basket is different than center court. Come on. The chairbacks are horrific. Falling apart. Idk why you'd pay extra to sit there.
They sell retractable bleachers now that have individual, cushioned seats. I mean try something. Audio, as others have mentioned, is terrible.
And, what about the tin foil around the duct work? Gotta be a fire hazard. Sorry - I love this team, and I love this University. But, the arena is atrocious. Not to mention the handicap parking, which is way too far away. The Gold lot should be handicap. Dangerous walk, especially during winter months with ice. Give us a better game day experience. For a game or two we had the drum line come out this year for intros. Many of us have asked for that to come back.
Why not hold a night for folks to come in and have an open dialogue about a potential commitment towards funding improvement on the existing ARC or the possibility of building a new structure?
Well said VU2010 :thumbsup:
modernize it but still keep the historic field house feel
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 23, 2018, 06:20:32 PMmodernize it but still keep the historic field house feel
(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/50/97/bf/hinkle-fieldhouse.jpg)
That's what Collier said.
Back when the ARC was full (HL championship games and NIT games) it made for a great environment with a home court advantage that could not be duplicated in a new, large, open stadium
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 24, 2018, 12:03:16 AM
Back when the ARC was full (HL championship games and NIT games) it made for a great environment with a home court advantage that could not be duplicated in a new, large, open stadium
As a visiting fan I completely agree. The arena itself I was never impressed with, but the atmosphere for the Butler-Valpo games I knew going in was going to be a lot of fun.
I do think some cosmetic updates might help, but the biggest area where money will pay off is in the player's experience (locker room, practice facility, medical and training rooms).
I happened to see the aerial shot of Brown Field under the lights and the back of the ARC that accompanied the article announcing the hiring of a new Compliance Officer. One of the things that jumped out at me was the west side of the arena portion of the ARC facing the University Park Ave parking lot. It is a single story add-on that looks to be about 50' X 100'. I hadn't noticed it before. Click on the attachment for a larger perspective.
If/when the ARC is renovated, in addition to expanding the footprint north behind what is now the chairback wall to include two stories, the west add-on should also have a second story added. The possibilities might be converting the lower level to additional team locker space and adding offices or other support areas above. Or the second level could contribute space for additional retractable bleachers that would allow the west baseline seating area to be made into retractable chairbacks without losing seating capacity and completing at least a horseshoe bowl with chair backs.
Just one more thought...........
Yes please
https://twitter.com/brickies1988/status/1085337521666568202
While most on the board focus exclusively on basketball, remember that Valpo supports a bunch of sports and needs to properly fund those as well. Mark LaBarbera's "AD insite" for this month mentions that Brown Field will be getting new and upgraded turf. Based on about five minutes or research, my guess is that this will be a $500,000 expenditure. He also mentioned that a second nutrition center is being added to the ARC via a cash donation and that video feed to the scoreboard, for replays had also been added. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes.
Quote from: vu72 on January 20, 2019, 12:10:31 PMWhile most on the board focus exclusively on basketball, remember that Valpo supports a bunch of sports and needs to properly fund those as well. Mark LaBarbera's "AD insite" for this month mentions that Brown Field will be getting new and upgraded turf. Based on about five minutes or research, my guess is that this will be a $500,000 expenditure. He also mentioned that a second nutrition center is being added to the ARC via a cash donation and that video feed to the scoreboard, for replays had also been added. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes.
They are REALLY busting their humps since the MVC move. This is great to see. Let us as fans continue to applaud encourage and support these changes. Let us not lament what we don't have yet but embrace what is being done. While the arena insults sting I'll endure them and happily take the Ws from opposing fans more concerned with our arena than with supporting their team. I take great comfort that positive changes are coming and great efforts are being made. I can't ask for more so I'll just take my seat in the bleachers and cheer as hard and loud as I can for as long as I can. Go Valpo! Keep up the great work both on and off the court!
Quote from: vu72 on January 20, 2019, 12:10:31 PM
While most on the board focus exclusively on basketball, remember that Valpo supports a bunch of sports and needs to properly fund those as well. Mark LaBarbera's "AD insite" for this month mentions that Brown Field will be getting new and upgraded turf. Based on about five minutes or research, my guess is that this will be a $500,000 expenditure. He also mentioned that a second nutrition center is being added to the ARC via a cash donation and that video feed to the scoreboard, for replays had also been added. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes.
And yet we still have a sound system, in the ARC, which is so bad that many fans cannot understand much of what the announcer is saying. And we have a video board that shows the players that are on the court, but there is such a delay in updating it that it is usually incorrect. As an example, in the last game, one player's points jumped by 4, because his last 2 baskets weren't updated on time. I've seen instances where players came in, played and went out and their name never appeared on the score board. This can't be rocket science.
I've been as vociferous an advocate for facility upgrades as you're ever going to find but the more time I spend at games and the more I think about it, Valpo realistically can't have more than a few million dollars per year in revenue for facility upgrades across the department. So they have to fulfill as many wants\needs as they can with that money. They also have to consider the amount of time something will take. If and when there is a new ARC renovation we may not be able to play that season at home jeopardizing ticket sales. I'm sure the video board issue can be resolved by training someone or hiring that out but with all due respect who's constantly checking that instead of following the action on the floor? I know I'm not.
Yes, the PA system needs attention but we're acting like we don't have football soccer baseball tennis etc. with their own needs and we can't send the message that we don't care about their needs because they aren't basketball. We're a small private school in a small city with only one revenue sport and a reason we don't have money is because of attendance. Marketing is improving greatly we had an incredible giveaway the weather wasn't that bad the team is tied for first and we still couldn't fill 3\4 of the ARC. At a certain point it's not really on the department. The locals don't care. I didn't see anything wrong with the gameday experience Saturday that wouldn't require months of labor and millions of dollars to fix. At a certain point you either like basketball and want to be there or you don't and will make excuses not to go. It's easy to find coverage of Valpo basketball if you want it It's even improving in the papers. At a certain point your non-attendance is on you.
As for other revenue streams we could opt not to play in top MTEs but then our schedule would suck and we'd all complain. We could take all buy games but then our record would suck and we'd all complain and people would think we suck and wouldn't go to games. Our best path forward is a concerted campaign to raise $100million or so for athletics to cover:
ARC Renovations
Renovations for other sports
The student rec Center
Solutions to the parking issue
A new practice facility
A better pool
Hopefully that's the next campaign after the endowment drive because it feels like most everything else has been nicely updated. It might finally be athletics' turn to receive the attention it deserves. Though I wouldn't be surprised if improvements to the engineering business and nursing buildings came first.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 20, 2019, 06:34:45 PMA new practice facility
A well written and thought out response. Having said that, a new practice facility isn't needed. We have a very good one now. If you haven't been to Hilltop since the dedication of the Kempf floor, stop by. It is first class.
A few things:
1. Sell beer at games and get into the next millennium. They sell it at Loyola and Drake games - why not Valpo? Or do we need to get approval from Mike Pence and MADD? The ARC will not turn into Valpo's largest saloon.
2. The UNI fans have a good point about the ARC - it needs modernization and Valpo needs to step up now. The money is there, the problem is that the Valpo administration continues to run in a total risk free environment, and they consistently remain behind the times, not just in athletics but in other venues. This is going to bite Valpo in the long run if this big elephant in the room is not resolved. I also cannot believe that Valpo is strapped for cash.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 21, 2019, 10:36:27 AM2. The UNI fans have a good point about the ARC - it needs modernization and Valpo needs to step up now. The money is there, the problem is that the Valpo administration continues to run in a total risk free environment,
I get their conservative approach to debt but I am enough of a student of cycles to believe that the threat of deflation is now low and the risk for future inflation is extreme. Given the risk-rewards and the still low interest rates it now looks like perfect timing for modest to slightly aggressive borrowings. In my limited roles in local government I have helped push the "fix it now" agenda as far as our bonding agent would allow.
Both usc and ducky need to take a look at the Forever Valpo thread under General VU Discussion. Apparently Valpo IS strapped for cash. And it will continue to be a dog fight for high quality students going forward.
I would like to keep everything as is just remodel and update. Just needs a face lift but keep the character. Obviously add parking and beer.
Ok OK, I'm with you on that thought.
It's historic. Possibly put it on the National historic list and get federal money.....💰😉
The UNI guy criticizing the ARC was obnoxious but nothing he said was inaccurate. (And we shouldn't let a good start on the court this MVC season obscure the urgency of this issue). The ARC is no longer a Division I-caliber facility and until VU gets off its laurels and remedies that -- or at least shows the slightest initiative toward fixing it--all of the snide comments about the facility that come our way from fans and media around the Valley will be well deserved.
Don't tell me half the mezzanine was empty Saturday as an excuse to do nothing. Sitting in the mezzanine for anyone over the age of 12 is a thoroughly unpleasant, 1970's-era experience (no legroom, stumbling over everyone else in the row to get to the restrooms/concessions, lousy sightlines -- especially the rows closest to the court where you have people walking in front of you the whole game). I wouldn't want to pay money to sit up there, either.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 21, 2019, 07:31:48 PM
The UNI guy criticizing the ARC was obnoxious but nothing he said was inaccurate. (And we shouldn't let a good start on the court this MVC season obscure the urgency of this issue). The ARC is no longer a Division I-caliber facility and until VU gets off its laurels and remedies that -- or at least shows the slightest initiative toward fixing it--all of the snide comments about the facility that come our way from fans and media around the Valley will be well deserved.
Don't tell me half the mezzanine was empty Saturday as an excuse to do nothing. Sitting in the mezzanine for anyone over the age of 12 is a thoroughly unpleasant, 1970's-era experience (no legroom, stumbling over everyone else in the row to get to the restrooms/concessions, lousy sightlines -- especially the rows closest to the court where you have people walking in front of you the whole game). I wouldn't want to pay money to sit up there, either.
My beef with UNI guy's comments were more about the suggestion we weren't a qualified member of the conference. The ARC needs a serious overhaul. Lot's needs to be fixed from, layout of things like concessions, seating, needs more chairbacks, sound system, interior design and decor of the entrance way, air conditioning, parking, and I know many would like to see beer being sold. There is a lot that needs to be fixed and it won't be cheap.
Quote from: valpospartan on January 20, 2019, 04:42:00 PMAnd we have a video board that shows the players that are on the court, but there is such a delay in updating it that it is usually incorrect. As an example, in the last game, one player's points jumped by 4, because his last 2 baskets weren't updated on time. I've seen instances where players came in, played and went out and their name never appeared on the score board. This can't be rocket science.
Likely less a board issue and more a board operator issue.
Tons of studies have been done for a new convention center in northwest Indiana. I believe it is focused in Lake county now. Let's bring it to Porter County! What if Valpo sells a portion of the northwest hospital lot and has it developed as a new convention center/arena which houses the new home to the Crusaders. Valpo builds a new parking garage behind brown field next to LeBien Hall and leases it out to the convention center/arena for their events. Valpo now has a new arena that it leases close to dorms, sells beer to our thirsty fans (because it is not on campus) and we no longer have to discuss upgrades to the Arc. The University saves $$$ on rehabbing the arc for basketball and can focus on other projects.
If the hospital parcel does not work perhaps behind Trail in Liquors lot if they still own it or east gate fields.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 20, 2019, 06:34:45 PM
I've been as vociferous an advocate for facility upgrades as you're ever going to find but the more time I spend at games and the more I think about it, Valpo realistically can't have more than a few million dollars per year in revenue for facility upgrades across the department. So they have to fulfill as many wants\needs as they can with that money. They also have to consider the amount of time something will take. If and when there is a new ARC renovation we may not be able to play that season at home jeopardizing ticket sales. I'm sure the video board issue can be resolved by training someone or hiring that out but with all due respect who's constantly checking that instead of following the action on the floor? I know I'm not.
Yes, the PA system needs attention but we're acting like we don't have football soccer baseball tennis etc. with their own needs and we can't send the message that we don't care about their needs because they aren't basketball. We're a small private school in a small city with only one revenue sport and a reason we don't have money is because of attendance. Marketing is improving greatly we had an incredible giveaway the weather wasn't that bad the team is tied for first and we still couldn't fill 3\4 of the ARC. At a certain point it's not really on the department. The locals don't care. I didn't see anything wrong with the gameday experience Saturday that wouldn't require months of labor and millions of dollars to fix. At a certain point you either like basketball and want to be there or you don't and will make excuses not to go. It's easy to find coverage of Valpo basketball if you want it It's even improving in the papers. At a certain point your non-attendance is on you.
As for other revenue streams we could opt not to play in top MTEs but then our schedule would suck and we'd all complain. We could take all buy games but then our record would suck and we'd all complain and people would think we suck and wouldn't go to games. Our best path forward is a concerted campaign to raise $100million or so for athletics to cover:
ARC Renovations
Renovations for other sports
The student rec Center
Solutions to the parking issue
A new practice facility
A better pool
Hopefully that's the next campaign after the endowment drive because it feels like most everything else has been nicely updated. It might finally be athletics' turn to receive the attention it deserves. Though I wouldn't be surprised if improvements to the engineering business and nursing buildings came first.
I'm sorry, but my wife and I, who aren't VU grads, have been supporting the Basketball team for over 30 years, and think that it would be nice if the total experience were available to us. How many forms of entertainment do you know of where you pay admission, only to find that you don't get to see , or hear, or see everything? We just want to hear everything said by John Bowker, because something just might just be pertinent, interesting or educational.
There is no way a new convention center is going in somewhere so far away from a major expressway and a large bunch of hotels. The hotels in Valpo can barely handle a homecoming weekend or the Lutheran Basketball Tournament, they will not be able to accommodate the large amount of people this will need to consistently bring in. I have heard lots of plans about a convention center but I have gotten the vibe that the interest is much more about business conferences vs sporting events. Also, there's no way it's leaving Lake County if it gets built.
I wouldn't want our program to play in a convention hall anyways. Our program should play on campus in a updated technological but historic intimate/small gym.
Quote from: crusader05 on January 22, 2019, 07:08:02 AM
There is no way a new convention center is going in somewhere so far away from a major expressway and a large bunch of hotels. The hotels in Valpo can barely handle a homecoming weekend or the Lutheran Basketball Tournament, they will not be able to accommodate the large amount of people this will need to consistently bring in. I have heard lots of plans about a convention center but I have gotten the vibe that the interest is much more about business conferences vs sporting events. Also, there's no way it's leaving Lake County if it gets built.
I'm pretty sure the Dean White Co. (Whiteco) has huge plans for the old Twin Towers/Holiday Star property that probably includes a convention center.
I'd love to see a Loyola-like facility built on the hospital property.
As for selling beer at games, wouldn't that require a liquor license? Those aren't cheap, or necessarily readily available.
89 - a liquor license is peanuts compared to the big picture. Cmon!
Renovating the ARC must be a high priority if Valpo really wants to be a player in the MVC. The UNI fans have a point.
I just can't believe Valpo is this strapped for cash and so resistant to risk taking.
My guess it's less a liqueur license and more having to revamp the the concession stands and start paying people who can sell the booze vs just students. It's probably possible but my guess is they see no need to move forward with that while also pursuing the 500,000.00 upgrade.
Also, Valpo has taken risks. Multiple buildings have been built on bonds including a dorm, 2 academic buildings and the sorority houses. This is already a less conservative way of building vs the Harre years. But most universities, outside of large donations,don't have much extra cash to build with and there are also dorm renovations that cost 1-2 million that they would like to accomplish and the need for more parking. Most of the Universities economic strength is tied up in endowments and assets and it's yearly budget it completely at the whim of enrollment with not enough of the annual funding being able to be off the books through endowment funding.
(https://i.imgur.com/KAveqIe.jpg)
This could be done by just replacing the seating fairly easily... all chairbacks (even the bleachers), make all foot traffic come from the track. Would vastly improve look, feel, experience at the arc. And would be fairly inexpensive and quick to do. May even reduce capacity since all would be chairbacks.
Concessions/bathrooms would need to be addressed, but they could make the upper deck bleachers permanent and always build out under there as an option, but that's where the costs could start building up... another option would to leave the East side open as it is today and just make lower half a horseshoe instead of a bowl.
Wait, no luxury suites?
I think everyone is on board that we aren't asking for something over the top or expensive. Only some updates, more logistical, beer and sound system. We don't ask for much.
I'm good with just beer.
I kid.....sort of.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 22, 2019, 09:06:07 AMI just can't believe Valpo is this strapped for cash and so resistant to risk taking.
I posted this earlier as a reply to another one of your posts when you said that Valpo isn't strapped for cash. Read it this time.
take a look at the Forever Valpo thread under General VU Discussion. Apparently Valpo IS strapped for cash. And it will continue to be a dog fight for high quality students going forward.
Quote from: Valpo89 on January 22, 2019, 08:37:07 AM
Quote from: crusader05 on January 22, 2019, 07:08:02 AM
There is no way a new convention center is going in somewhere so far away from a major expressway and a large bunch of hotels. The hotels in Valpo can barely handle a homecoming weekend or the Lutheran Basketball Tournament, they will not be able to accommodate the large amount of people this will need to consistently bring in. I have heard lots of plans about a convention center but I have gotten the vibe that the interest is much more about business conferences vs sporting events. Also, there's no way it's leaving Lake County if it gets built.
I'm pretty sure the Dean White Co. (Whiteco) has huge plans for the old Twin Towers/Holiday Star property that probably includes a convention center.
I'd love to see a Loyola-like facility built on the hospital property.
As for selling beer at games, wouldn't that require a liquor license? Those aren't cheap, or necessarily readily available.
This is just speculation and interpretation on my part.
So I'm taking a look at the MVC By-Laws, and wondering hypothetically, if a new arena was built at the Twin Towers site, whether Valpo could play a part of their MVC home schedule at said venue.
The By-Laws are here:
http://www.mvc.org/manual/bylaws.pdf
A quick glance of Section 8.1 of the By-Laws, which speaks to "Competition Sites", says to me that the answer is NO.
"Home ground" is defined as "grounds on which one (1) of the competitors customarily and regularly plays its home games."
As an aside, it would be intriguing to know how "immediate control" is defined and what that encompasses by the MVC in this analysis should Valpo ever want to play at an off campus venue (see the Aces). However, it would seem, at least to me, that intermittent or selected MVC contests at a Twin Towers site wouldn't qualify as a "home ground." So we're stuck with the ARC. Wonderful.
Recent student apathy aside, it would be a huge mistake to play in any arena the students can't easily walk to.
Fair point on the hotels and accessibility to major Interstates. Reading further up on the studies, that is a major requirement for a new convention center/arena in Northwest Indiana. My point perhaps "hidden" is if a new facility was built and paid for by non Valpo $$$ the University would not need to spend so much on upgrades all at once. We could save $$$ on major renovations right now, upgrade what is necessary and save for the future while still satisfying our fans by playing in an upgraded arena.
So let's say a new convention center/arena was built 17 miles down the road in Merrillville Lake County and we were granted 4 "home" games there. Just to make a point 3 MVC and 1 big non conference game. (for now let's say Purdue) would that work for Valpo fans? Would the topic of renovating/upgrading the arc quiet down? Valpo is trying to reach out to the Lake County fan base, they held an open practice in Lake County this year.
Yes, but the gym/convention center would not be Valpo's. We would only be renter. Can't paint the walls, can't hang up historic banners, etc. Look at the schools who play in convention centers or off campus....
This is not the HL.
Missed that last one Joe.... time to change the by laws.....
I know that one of Heckler's hopes was that he could work with the town for funding for the rec center and the new pool but then the town approved the referendum to rebuild the high school and that included money for a ridiculous state of the art pool.
While larger improvements such as seating, concession stands, restrooms are understandably more ambitious projects, I still cannot understand why the scoreboards are not in sync....players currently in the lineup are usually never correct and late in being posted, on whom a foul was called, points are also usually not correct. A few years ago I mentioned this to MLB and he acted like he was unaware of the problem. He said that those type of problems should be corrected with the new board. However they have never been corrected. Whether it is a system problem or poor operators of the system, these problems should be addressed and corrected immediately. The scoreboard at the west end of the ARC often has info posted before it ever gets to the big, overhead board. One would think that the info should appear on all the boards at the same time. Who is in charge? Let's get it corrected.
Quote from: crusader05 on January 22, 2019, 01:13:01 PMI know that one of Heckler's hopes was that he could work with the town for funding for the rec center and the new pool but then the town approved the referendum to rebuild the high school and that included money for a ridiculous state of the art pool.
It makes sense. If my memory serves VHS has a very good and highly competitive swimming team. Of course that probably left VU on it's own for improving its pool..
Quote from: crusader05 on January 22, 2019, 01:13:01 PM
I know that one of Heckler's hopes was that he could work with the town for funding for the rec center and the new pool but then the town approved the referendum to rebuild the high school and that included money for a ridiculous state of the art pool.
Under original consideration was a 3-way partnership among Valparaiso City Government, Valparaiso Community School System, and the University. My understanding is that the university would not consider any location for a the natatorium other than on university-owned property. Given that the city and school system had the collective resources to go it alone and the university didn't, they would never agree to an arrangement that totally inconvenienced everyone in the community but for a small number of university students here part time.
Quote from: wh on January 22, 2019, 02:05:36 PMQuote from: crusader05 on January 22, 2019, 01:13:01 PMI know that one of Heckler's hopes was that he could work with the town for funding for the rec center and the new pool but then the town approved the referendum to rebuild the high school and that included money for a ridiculous state of the art pool.
Under original consideration was a 3-way partnership among Valparaiso City Government, Valparaiso Community School System, and the University. My understanding is that the university would not consider any location for a the natatorium other than on university-owned property. Given that the city and school system had the collective resources to go it alone and the university didn't, they would never agree to an arrangement that totally inconvenienced everyone in the community but for a small number of university students here part time.
On the surface that seems like a massive blunder but maybe the university had to insist on that for competition reasons. Can swim meets be hosted of campus?
Quote from: vu72 on January 22, 2019, 10:11:45 AMQuote from: usc4valpo on January 22, 2019, 09:06:07 AMI just can't believe Valpo is this strapped for cash and so resistant to risk taking.
I posted this earlier as a reply to another one of your posts when you said that Valpo isn't strapped for cash. Read it this time. take a look at the Forever Valpo thread under General VU Discussion. Apparently Valpo IS strapped for cash. And it will continue to be a dog fight for high quality students going forward.
Since when does an endowment drive inherently mean that a school is strapped for cash? Isn't it every school presisentsp responsibility to grow the endowment? Also if my understanding is correct not everything included in an endowment fund is liquid cash anyway but even so trying to increase the endowment fund of the school doesn't mean it's hard up or in a bad way.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 22, 2019, 02:37:03 PMSince when does an endowment drive inherently mean that a school is strapped for cash? Isn't it every school presisentsp responsibility to grow the endowment? Also if my understanding is correct not everything included in an endowment fund is liquid cash anyway but even so trying to increase the endowment fund of the school doesn't mean it's hard up or in a bad way.
It doesn't. If you had looked a little further up the thread you would have seen this posted by valpopal:
Given the continuing discussions or questions about fundraising, financing, and facilities on the board, I thought I'd pass along today's Chapel devotional distributed to the university by Deaconess Kristin and Pastor Jim, which reflects the current atmosphere of economic concerns across the campus.
A VIGIL FOR VALPO
For many among the faculty and staff of Valparaiso University, last semester was a rough one. Colleges and universities across the country are under financial pressure for a variety of identifiable and sometimes uncontrollable reasons. Here at Valpo we've not been exempt from these issues.
As anyone caught in the present government shutdown will tell you, when money gets tight people get anxious, even fearful. Last semester, in large forums and smaller meetings, faculty and staff sought answers to their questions and gave expression to their concerns. Some of these exchanges became heated. If our community has been typical of other human communities, there have been other, more quiet conversations which have been no less divisive as we identify others who are adding to the problem, not doing their fair share, have some unfair advantage, don't have all the facts, or aren't paying enough attention. The list of accusations can become nearly endless. Though our perspectives and concerns are real and legitimate, frequently in their airing we've not been our best selves. Instead, we've been quick to place blame, assume the worst of others, and succumb to a perspective that the reality of our work together is that our work is against one another: colleges in competition with other colleges, departments with departments, faculty and staff against administration. Many among us are frustrated, angry, fearful, and disappointed. Ironically, if we didn't care so much about it all, we wouldn't be so emotionally engaged.
It's a new year and a new semester but none of what I just described has gone away, nor will it.
We do, however, as a Lutheran university, have significant resources to bring to bear for our life together. The Chapel is offering the morning of Thursday, January 24, as a time of prayer vigil for Valpo. There will be FOUR 20-minute services of music and prayer around the cross on the hour, beginning at 9 a.m. in the Gloria Christi Chapel on the lower level, east end of the Chapel of the Resurrection.
Whether you're a member of the faculty, staff, administration, or a student, you are invited to come at a time that works with your schedule in order to join with others as we pray for ourselves, for our colleagues, for students, and for the university. We will remember that we are a whole university community under the Cross of Christ and that all of our work together, even our best work, is done under the incomprehensible grace of God who responds to our every failing with love and forgiveness. Both of us will be available in the time between the services for private conversation and prayer.
Quote from: vu72 on January 22, 2019, 04:11:45 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on January 22, 2019, 02:37:03 PMSince when does an endowment drive inherently mean that a school is strapped for cash? Isn't it every school presisentsp responsibility to grow the endowment? Also if my understanding is correct not everything included in an endowment fund is liquid cash anyway but even so trying to increase the endowment fund of the school doesn't mean it's hard up or in a bad way.
It doesn't. If you had looked a little further up the thread you would have seen this posted by valpopal: Given the continuing discussions or questions about fundraising, financing, and facilities on the board, I thought I'd pass along today's Chapel devotional distributed to the university by Deaconess Kristin and Pastor Jim, which reflects the current atmosphere of economic concerns across the campus. A VIGIL FOR VALPO For many among the faculty and staff of Valparaiso University, last semester was a rough one. Colleges and universities across the country are under financial pressure for a variety of identifiable and sometimes uncontrollable reasons. Here at Valpo we've not been exempt from these issues. As anyone caught in the present government shutdown will tell you, when money gets tight people get anxious, even fearful. Last semester, in large forums and smaller meetings, faculty and staff sought answers to their questions and gave expression to their concerns. Some of these exchanges became heated. If our community has been typical of other human communities, there have been other, more quiet conversations which have been no less divisive as we identify others who are adding to the problem, not doing their fair share, have some unfair advantage, don't have all the facts, or aren't paying enough attention. The list of accusations can become nearly endless. Though our perspectives and concerns are real and legitimate, frequently in their airing we've not been our best selves. Instead, we've been quick to place blame, assume the worst of others, and succumb to a perspective that the reality of our work together is that our work is against one another: colleges in competition with other colleges, departments with departments, faculty and staff against administration. Many among us are frustrated, angry, fearful, and disappointed. Ironically, if we didn't care so much about it all, we wouldn't be so emotionally engaged. It's a new year and a new semester but none of what I just described has gone away, nor will it. We do, however, as a Lutheran university, have significant resources to bring to bear for our life together. The Chapel is offering the morning of Thursday, January 24, as a time of prayer vigil for Valpo. There will be FOUR 20-minute services of music and prayer around the cross on the hour, beginning at 9 a.m. in the Gloria Christi Chapel on the lower level, east end of the Chapel of the Resurrection. Whether you're a member of the faculty, staff, administration, or a student, you are invited to come at a time that works with your schedule in order to join with others as we pray for ourselves, for our colleagues, for students, and for the university. We will remember that we are a whole university community under the Cross of Christ and that all of our work together, even our best work, is done under the incomprehensible grace of God who responds to our every failing with love and forgiveness. Both of us will be available in the time between the services for private conversation and prayer.
Not that I don't doubt there may be some financial strain, but this doesn't really say much as to what those are. Is Valpo in debt, is the endowment getting too low... Or is the administration being fiscally conservative given some headwinds and not spending? It's not uncommon to be performing really well but to want to cut spending. I don't know what the truth is, but I do know I've heard this excuse for a long time as to why money can't be directed towards upgrading the one facility that is shown on a national stage yearly. No one here is asking for a brand new $100 million facility. Just getting the bare minimum is like pulling teeth.
Quote from: vuny98 on January 22, 2019, 04:33:06 PMNot that I don't doubt there may be some financial strain, but this doesn't really say much as to what those are. Is Valpo in debt, is the endowment getting too low... Or is the administration being fiscally conservative given some headwinds and not spending? It's not uncommon to be performing really well but to want to cut spending. I don't know what the truth is, but I do know I've heard this excuse for a long time as to why money can't be directed towards upgrading the one facility that is shown on a national stage yearly. No one here is asking for a brand new $100 million facility. Just getting the bare minimum is like pulling teeth.
I'm sure that the tensions among faculty and staff stem from the number of faculty positions being eliminated. The financial concerns are real.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 22, 2019, 02:31:58 PM
Quote from: wh on January 22, 2019, 02:05:36 PMQuote from: crusader05 on January 22, 2019, 01:13:01 PMI know that one of Heckler's hopes was that he could work with the town for funding for the rec center and the new pool but then the town approved the referendum to rebuild the high school and that included money for a ridiculous state of the art pool.
Under original consideration was a 3-way partnership among Valparaiso City Government, Valparaiso Community School System, and the University. My understanding is that the university would not consider any location for a the natatorium other than on university-owned property. Given that the city and school system had the collective resources to go it alone and the university didn't, they would never agree to an arrangement that totally inconvenienced everyone in the community but for a small number of university students here part time.
On the surface that seems like a massive blunder but maybe the university had to insist on that for competition reasons. Can swim meets be hosted of campus?
Honestly, I have no idea if anyone blundered at all. In fact, they very likely did not. It's like exploring a merger. Every player comes to the table with non-negotiables that can't be violated. Maybe investing serious dollars for an off-campus natatorium simply doesn't work in meeting the university's needs. Maybe it isn't consistent with its overarching strategy. I have no idea, but if that is the case, VU did the right thing in walking away. Maybe the parties agreed that it would make more sense for the university to rent time as needed. Who knows? No disrespect intended toward swimmers, but it is a swimming pool we're talking about here.
I don't understand.$40-50000 per year is a lot of money $200million our current endowment is a lot more. Where does it all go? Is all of this because we cut the law school (an underperforming asset)?
How many students do you think actually pay that full 40-50k a year in tuition?
Could it be time to sacrifice some of that value for the sake of moving the university forward facilities wise? Obviously that won't help us athletic s department supporters because there's no way they would or should cut scholarship money for athletic improvements no matter how sorely needed they are.
the law school is an incredibly large drain, but enrollment of students who can pay more is an issue and also retention. Students are much more willing to jump ship on a college especially with the current fears about student debt. The university is also seeing an increase in commuter student rates which means they are losing money that comes in housing fees as well. I know the major focus right now is working on retention and enrollment as the main immediate impacts. They have recently spent money on new updated software programs to help with student records and retention. Valpo has been a bit to content to not keep up with the times because our way was working. Now I think they are realizing some things need to be more updated. I honestly think one of vapors biggest problems is it seems to want to run itself like it's a small under 2000 person university and not the over 4000 undergrad university that it is
So we have 4000+
Build like we have 6000+
But manage like we have 2000 or less.
What a mess. How do we reconcile these factors and make that 6000+ figure a reality?
I think six is doable but we will need to see a rebound in graduate schools. I think the new OT phd program and potentially finding a way to turn the current 5 year PA program into that plus a 2 year graduate program can help a lot.
As for managing like 2,000. I think it's mostly just a few that valpo is a close personal university and so there has maybe been a reluctance to moving towards more efficient but depersonalized systems but the reality is that as financial aide and majors and students expectations get more complicated you need a broader based system to deal with that. Whether that means more professional advising structures or going completely paperless with an more integrated system.
Great discussion. As a graduate, it does worry me. Idk the state of financial affairs at Valpo and will not claim to...but, it does concern me. I wonder if they've done any analysis on how the increase in online programs elsewhere is impacting Valpo. Idk just wondering. Given how much they advertise ivy tech, they've gotta be willing to take the money they can get at this point - knowing they'd lose out on the first 2 years if a student transfers in from ivy tech with an associates degree.
It's just a new era. Without state funding or something that really sets you apart as a private school or big time donors, idk what the future holds.
Scary times for sure. I worry the law school shutting down is a major red flag. I hope it's not but do sincerely wonder.
What's next? Idk but I sure love VU.
Quote from: VU2010 on January 22, 2019, 07:54:33 PMGreat discussion. As a graduate, it does worry me. Idk the state of financial affairs at Valpo and will not claim to...but, it does concern me. I wonder if they've done any analysis on how the increase in online programs elsewhere is impacting Valpo. Idk just wondering. Given how much they advertise ivy tech, they've gotta be willing to take the money they can get at this point - knowing they'd lose out on the first 2 years if a student transfers in from ivy tech with an associates degree. It's just a new era. Without state funding or something that really sets you apart as a private school or big time donors, idk what the future holds. Scary times for sure. I worry the law school shutting down is a major red flag. I hope it's not but do sincerely wonder. What's next? Idk but I sure love VU.
We HAVE something that sets us apart... Name a more prominent Lutheran Institution. How do we become a Lutheran BYU\ND while remaining relevant and accessible to all? ND and to a lesser extent BYU seems to have that formula while remaining unapologetically Catholic\Mormon. How can we do this? It seems to me basketball is the main\only vehicle meaning that we're substantially on the right track. But how do we improve\speed up the process and find additional channels to aid us?
Quote from: valpo64 on January 22, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
While larger improvements such as seating, concession stands, restrooms are understandably more ambitious projects, I still cannot understand why the scoreboards are not in sync....players currently in the lineup are usually never correct and late in being posted, on whom a foul was called, points are also usually not correct. A few years ago I mentioned this to MLB and he acted like he was unaware of the problem. He said that those type of problems should be corrected with the new board. However they have never been corrected. Whether it is a system problem or poor operators of the system, these problems should be addressed and corrected immediately. The scoreboard at the west end of the ARC often has info posted before it ever gets to the big, overhead board. One would think that the info should appear on all the boards at the same time. Who is in charge? Let's get it corrected.
Couple this situation with the pathetic PA system and you have a less than good experience at the ARC.
VUGRAD 1314, you have a passion and vision. I like seeing it!!! There was once a president of VU named OP Kretzmann who could inspire you to think we could become that Lutheran version of Notre Dame/BYU/Baylor..... and be Athens and Jerusalem...."see light in THY light." Maybe you knew that.
But OPK did not raise any endowment savings and the dorms and buildings fell way behind other universities in the years under his successors.
Harre raised cash to build the library and union at a total cost over $75 million without taking out debt. Heckler decided to take out debt to add more buildings. You have heard about the debt and finance issues now. Students now pay those bonds indirectly.
The boards under both H & H chose not to invest real money in athletics. I have heard that the faculty was angry that the ARC got built in 1984 by Pres. Schnabel before building any new academic facilities. (I think the whole ARC only cost $7-8 million total.)
Passion I have but vision I lack. Had I a vision I would know the steps to create an actionable plan to get us there instead of just posting vague questions on a message board. Pray we win some tournament games or start an athletics-focused donation drive are not great solutions but they're the best I've got. Maybe the Vanderbilt game would be a good place to kick this off. Draw up a specific plan for what we want\need built and an estimated goal for what it will all cost. Set up people to take donations at the game and each game thereafter or have people phone in donations. Maybe have a reward system as follows:
$1 Free soda popcorn pretzel cookie or candy (choice of 1)
$5 Free upper bleacher ticket to future MBB game AND free food item of choice OR free entry to other VU ticketed event (womens basketball volleyball or football)
$10: Free upper bleacher ticket to future MBB game, AND Free entry to other VU ticketed event OR free lower bleacher ticket to future MBB game
$15: Free lower bleacher ticket to future MBB game AND $5 food voucher OR Free entry to other VU Ticketed event
$20: Free lower bleacher ticket to future MBB game AND $5 food voucher AND Free entry to other VU Ticketed event OR 2 Free Bleacher seats to future game
$25: Free Chairback Seat to Future Game OR 2 free bleacher seats + $5 food voucher
$30: Free Chairback Seat to Future Game AND $5 food voucher OR 2 free bleacher seats + 2 $5 food vouchers AND Free admission to future event
$35: Free Chairback seat to future game AND $5 food voucher AND Free entry to future VU Ticketed event OR Bleacher Seats to the mini pack of your choice
Etc. With bigger rewards for higher donations...
I don't know just a roughly hewn out idea that the community may like and support that isn't too costly for Valpo and may build fan support. Maybe the rewards\prizes need to be better. I don't know.
I just wanted to step in and say that the debt is not was is causing financial concerns. This is not necessarily a strange thing for smaller universities to go through. The university has had tougher times before and it is always painful but it doesn't not often indicate large concern for the future.
Valpo is large enough and stable enough to survive tougher financial times than many smaller schools and has a much more stable financial future than many smaller schools.
Indiana has a lot of colleges, while the amount of students who are available in the midwest is shrinking. There is going to be some tough times and some realignment. I have heard that other schools, such as DePauw are going through even more difficult circumstances. The university is still moving forward with looking for funds for the ARC renovation and looking to the future even as they adjust for present day concerns.
VUGRAD1314 -- I would suggest that you give John Kuka a call in the VU Giving office. John has responsibilities for Athletics Fundraising. Great guy and would suggest you have a discussion with him about your concerns and your ideas. Remember, we have a small school and our administration officials are readily available to discuss questions and issues that you may have. That's how I started being involved many (many) years ago -- cold called Tom Smith's office (another story for another day), then Homer's with ideas for alumni events at road games. Yes, there's more structure and more people in the administration today, but VU still relies heavily on its volunteer base -- VAN (admission network), alumni board, alumni events, guild, etc. Activate your passion constructively. The University needs to develop an involved and hopefully giving alumni base from the many years now of hoops success. You can become a member of the Crusader Club (online probably) with a reasonable donation and receive certain benefits.
Universities who have experienced success in athletics usually increase in enrollment. See Butler....Increasing Enrollment is a goal for VU. Having a proud and successful athletic program with good facilities is a way to do it.
Gonzaga is another great example - the school was really hurting and is now doing well, coincidently at the same time as the basketball program improved.
Quote from: crusader05 on January 23, 2019, 07:08:53 AM
I just wanted to step in and say that the debt is not was is causing financial concerns. This is not necessarily a strange thing for smaller universities to go through. The university has had tougher times before and it is always painful but it doesn't not often indicate large concern for the future.
Valpo is large enough and stable enough to survive tougher financial times than many smaller schools and has a much more stable financial future than many smaller schools.
Indiana has a lot of colleges, while the amount of students who are available in the midwest is shrinking. There is going to be some tough times and some realignment. I have heard that other schools, such as DePauw are going through even more difficult circumstances. The university is still moving forward with looking for funds for the ARC renovation and looking to the future even as they adjust for present day concerns.
Yep. 67 four year colleges.
https://www.free-4u.com/Colleges/Indiana-Colleges.html
If Valpo is truly strapped for cash, this is a big concern for me as my daughters are pursuing where they want to go for college. One wants to go into education and is looking into Iowa state schools plus NW Missouri St. The other is very smart analytically and thinking about Cornell, Northwestern, Iowa State, Rice and Stanford.
I love Valpo, but I need to support my daughters on what is best for their needs and their future.
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 23, 2019, 11:30:20 AMIf Valpo is truly strapped for cash, this is a big concern for me as my daughters are pursuing where they want to go for college. One wants to go into education and is looking into Iowa state schools plus NW Missouri St. The other is very smart analytically and thinking about Cornell, Northwestern, Iowa State, Rice and Stanford. I love Valpo, but I need to support my daughters on what is best for their needs and their future.
My 100% uneducated assumption...
Valpo is in no worse situation than most colleges across the country. There are headwinds affecting all colleges and being a fiscally conservative administration, Valpo is reacting to it as they should by not over spending and by making sure they are right sized for future success (i.e. dumping law school, cutting some non essential faculty, etc.). I would argue being too conservative with funds can be as damaging as too loose in the long term, but aside from some talking points, I see no reason to believe Valpo is really hurting. Again, 100% uninformed assumption, and I could be very wrong...
Yeah this whole financial restraint just means there's not a lot of extra money in annual budgets to go around and that focus is on student retention and enrollment.
This is not a "valpo is going bankrupt, won't be around the sky is falling" situation
It's some things in the college landscape are changing and some adjustments and reallocation of money need to be made and it's not fun but necessary for future stability and growth"
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 23, 2019, 11:30:20 AM
If Valpo is truly strapped for cash, this is a big concern for me as my daughters are pursuing where they want to go for college. One wants to go into education and is looking into Iowa state schools plus NW Missouri St. The other is very smart analytically and thinking about Cornell, Northwestern, Iowa State, Rice and Stanford.
I love Valpo, but I need to support my daughters on what is best for their needs and their future.
I have no doubt that the quality of the education offered by Valpo is on par with the private schools you mentioned. As for the Iowa state schools, as with all other state schools, there is little that would compare to a Valpo education particularly given the access to professors, a truly caring environment, and all professor taught classes. I would also suggest that they at least apply. My granddaughter just was accepted and received a very attractive scholarship offer. I think when you compare the net cost of Valpo to state schools you will find them to very close to each other.
Not sure I agree 72 regarding the private schools. Academically they are rated much higher, students have significantly higher test scores, have wealthy donors and not strapped for funding. As for the Iowa schools for an education degree, they are rated high, particularly UNI.
A little forward thinking and creative investment by both the university and the city could make Valpo the entertainment hub of NWI. Picture a new arena on the old Porter Memorial property. Public/private partnership. Say, 6,000-ish seats. Still an on-campus arena, but also allows the city to fill the void for concerts and other events left behind when the Star Plaza closed. Could put Valpo in the running for mid-sized conventions and trade shows. Will spur additional development to complete the economic rebirth of the east Lincolnway corridor. Would have dozens of dining/nightlife options within walking distance. A win for everyone.
The university is definitely looking into private partnerships including for I believe bringing a bar close to campus and maybe even a small event space. But a big entertainment venue is a no go. Star Plaza is gone partly because it couldn't compete with the Casinos which have large venue space bring in larger stars.
Valpo, sandwiched between the east chicago and new buffalo casinos would fare no better.
I would like to see t hem lease and or sell some of their land to bring restaurants or services closer to the campus. A place for fraternities or sororities to host events and a bar close to campus that is not as trashy as duffy's but not as small and unaffordable as those down town would be really helpful
MIT had a bar on campus - the Muddy Charles, and at the end of a quarter, the professor invited us there for some Sams and Harpoon beer. What a concept!
QuoteValpo, sandwiched between the east chicago and new buffalo casinos would fare no better.
The casinos are 21+ only and can only host large club and small theatre-level acts. An arena would be booking a different level of shows and events that the casinos don't have the capacity to touch, and an arena would be able to host all-ages events. And Valpo is perfectly situated. An hour-plus from Chicago with more than three-quarters of a million people to draw from within a 25 mile radius. Plenty of promoters would be very interested in that for touring acts.
What are the Top 3 reasons I keep hearing our gym compared to a high school gym?
Is the fact it's not dedicated to basketball a top reason we get knocked?
Is it retractable seating?
Is it a track in the mezzanine?
...
Bleachers, Bleacher and more Bleachers.
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 26, 2019, 02:44:19 PM
Bleachers, Bleacher and more Bleachers.
You mean like at Cameron?
Quote from: VALPO LI on January 26, 2019, 02:44:19 PM
Bleachers, Bleacher and more Bleachers.
Our chair backs are bleachers, are those unacceptable?
Our kids graduated from Butler and Dayton in the last five years. We "required" both of our kids to visit Valpo. At both Butler and Dayton, the tour guides emphasized that a big part of the campus "community" was going to basketball games. Basketball games weren't even mentioned on the Valpo tours, which were five years apart. Let me assure you that Butler and Dayton haven't thrown academics, the arts, community service, and in Dayton's case, Spiritual life, out the window. They've just decided that Men's Basketball should be one of the "front doors" of the universities.
While I will admit, Valpo is not apples to apples with these schools for a variety of reasons, I have seen with my own eyes the positive impact that investing in Men's Basketball can have on a school. The vision at each of these schools didn't come from well-meaning posters on a message board. The vision came from the Presidents and the Boards. Everyone on campus knows the vision (even those who don't like it). And the vision and the message have been so consistent, that each of these schools has received significant contributions toward enhancing facilities from non-alumni, community sources.
While I am not suggesting that a $72 Million arena project (see Dayton) is required or even realistic, until Valpo leadership decides that: 1) some meaningful ($10-$15 Million) level of investment in Basketball facilities is important; and 2) Valpo needs to recruit more students who were athletes in high school (students who want to attend DI basketball games), this is going to be a frustrating topic.
QuoteBleachers, Bleacher and more Bleachers.
You mean like at Cameron?
Cameron is all chairbacks except for the student bleachers that surround the floor on the lower level. And they've got about a million other creature comforts in that facility now surrounding arena concourse and lobbies.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 26, 2019, 07:54:55 PMQuoteBleachers, Bleacher and more Bleachers. You mean like at Cameron?
Cameron is all chairbacks except for the student bleachers that surround the floor on the lower level. And they've got about a million other creature comforts in that facility now surrounding arena concourse and lobbies.
And they also rake in about $30million more than Valpo does every year on conference revenue split alone AND they have a large and rich alumni base and a national following we could only dream of. Coach K types assuming Valpo found one don't stay at Valpo\in the MVC very long.
Seeing that I started this thread it seems only fitting that I post response #1000! I would think this is the only thread that ever made it this far! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Nope. It may get there eventually but it is still absolutely dwarfed by this behemoth.
https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1386.0
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 27, 2019, 01:59:49 PM
Nope. It may get there eventually but it is still absolutely dwarfed by this behemoth.
https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1386.0
Over/Under: This thread gets to 80 pages before we get any meaningful facility upgrades for the ARC?
Over .... unfortunately .... we'll be staring at the crappy walls, standing in long lines at the concession stand, sitting in high school bleacher seating, tripping over that darn power cord behind the announcers, watching under the 1970s yellow lights, and hoping for a good Culver's flavor of the day to wipe away our sorrows for years and years and years and decades and decades and decades to come.
https://twitter.com/scotte101/status/1090448242003927040?s=21
https://twitter.com/ValpoAD/status/1090658287849213952
I, and many others, have been complaining about the ARC's inaudible sound system for several years. At the MOSTATE game, a strange thing happened: The sound of the National Anthem, by the Phi Mu Alpha choir, into a wireless mic, was so clear, I couldn't believe it. So this begs the question: is the problem with the mic that John Bowker uses, or are different speakers connected to the wireless mic?
So the nutrition center is on the wall in the Hilltop? It essentially looks like a side room, which works out well. Do they need a special access card to gain access?
Quote from: VU2014 on January 30, 2019, 06:38:25 PM
https://twitter.com/scotte101/status/1090448242003927040?s=21
Says a guy from a state funded school with 24,000 students...
NEXT
"Like" Hellooooo OMG! It can hold 5,000 ::)
At least she originally called it a stadium :thumbsup:
I believe it is in a large former storage closet. Still a nice thing to have, and probably pretty expensive to maintain (as a former college athlete I know some of those guys/girls can really eat).
If you want shorter concession line go to the one behind the mezzanine.
Quote from: M on January 31, 2019, 07:53:19 AM
I believe it is in a large former storage closet. Still a nice thing to have, and probably pretty expensive to maintain (as a former college athlete I know some of those guys/girls can really eat).
If you want shorter concession line go to the one behind the mezzanine.
And a second nutrition center has been funded as well.
I also believe this is athletes only, not a concession stand. Correct?
The Phi Mu Alpha rendition of the National Anthem was terrific at the Drake game. Please use them more often or get a decent arrangement for the pep band to play. Between the sound systems in the ARC and Press Room and half-ass operations of the ARC scoreboard, it is time to get our act together and provide a GOOD MID-MAJOR game experience. Come'on Valpo Athletics and Administration, it is time to make some positive upgrades with your Athletic cash cow!!
Yes athletes only unless you want to buy yourself some game day Raisin Bran.
QuoteSays a guy from a state funded school with 24,000 students...
So what? They're in our conference and we're competing against them. (Oh, and the state doesn't fund athletic facilities at most state schools).
Also, the private schools in the league have way better facilities than us, too, including one that's smaller than VU.
Our administration let our facilities lag for years, relying on the Drew family charm and coaching acumen to compensate for it. I mean, we've never even
released a credible, detailed plan for facility upgrades. Not a capital campaign, and definitely not the upgrades themselves, but a
just a stinkin' plan that sets a benchmark for what we'd like to do, the level of that funding would be needed, shows some rough renderings, etc. (and would get fans and donors fired up to write a check to help).
We don't get to be all defensive when opposing fans rightfully point out what a joke our facilities are by Valley standards when we've had YEARS to address the issue and have done less than zilch about it.
Half our private school opponents don't even own their facilities. The other two aren't significantly nicer than the current ARC. Yes we need upgrades but it's really easy to have a nice facility when your only contribution to a building is a lease. The public schools also have significantly larger and more athletically oriented fanbases. We need to encourage more athletics support among the administration and the fanbase but there are strong signs that everyone gets oy now and we're coming along in this regard. I know it's hard because we did so little before but I really think that all that is needed now is a little patience.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 31, 2019, 05:58:43 PM
QuoteSays a guy from a state funded school with 24,000 students...
So what? They're in our conference and we're competing against them. (Oh, and the state doesn't fund athletic facilities at most state schools).
Also, the private schools in the league have way better facilities than us, too, including one that's smaller than VU.
Our administration let our facilities lag for years, relying on the Drew family charm and coaching acumen to compensate for it. I mean, we've never even released a credible, detailed plan for facility upgrades. Not a capital campaign, and definitely not the upgrades themselves, but a just a stinkin' plan that sets a benchmark for what we'd like to do, the level of that funding would be needed, shows some rough renderings, etc. (and would get fans and donors fired up to write a check to help).
We don't get to be all defensive when opposing fans rightfully point out what a joke our facilities are by Valley standards when we've had YEARS to address the issue and have done less than zilch about it.
You are going to pay Biggie? If not, and I'm not paying......then there's exactly 23,998 non existent donors also unable to pay.
IT'S NOT A GOVT YOU TOOLS, WE DON'T PRINT MONEY!!!!
I would like to see a grassroots donation campaign where smallish donations unite with bigger donations to accomplish our goals but in order to do that we need a plan. On that part he is right. At least put forth a plan a set of ideals. something.
Vugrad1314 - let's do it
Cool. Where do we start?
WhiteCo
Go Fund Me? Idk I did notice on the athletics site there's a donation section as well.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 31, 2019, 05:58:43 PM(Oh, and the state doesn't fund athletic facilities at most state schools).
At Missouri State the basketball facility was paid for by private funds. JHQ Arena was paid for by John Q Hammons himself. Hammons was a graduate of MSU (then SW Missouri State) who went into the hotel business. The corporation he started now owns 78 hotels. Hammons was a basketball coach for a time after he graduated and lived in Springfield, MO. He died in 2013. It was clear that John Q Hammons was a huge sports fan who also happen to have a lot of money.
Valpo simply has had no alumni who appreciate sports as a guy like John Q. Hammons with the kind of money JQH was able to donate to his alma mater.
Drake is significantly nicer than Valpo's facility. A great place to watch basketball
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on January 31, 2019, 05:58:43 PMOh, and the state doesn't fund athletic facilities at most state schools).
True enough, but the DO fund everything else! They pay for dorms, academic buildings, student unions, grounds, etc. etc etc. We will always have a struggle to keep up with state schools and their giant alumni bases. Next thing we'll hear--oh wait someone already said it--is that our facilities caused sprained ankles. Geez.
When the university is ready to remodel the ARC, rest assured they will roll out a fundraising initiative, complete with scope, goals, timelines, suggested giving levels, matching fund incentives sponsored by big-time donors, name recognition opportunities, etc.
Until then, here's a word of advice from someone who's been down the fundraising block a few times. Don't listen to people who say "put your money where your mouth is if you think a new/revamped ARC is so important." Never contribute your hard earned money to a cause that doesn't exist and expect your donation to go there. It's completely counterintuitive to what you're hoping to accomplish.
It's your university's responsibility to put the ball in play first. Once they do, that's when you jump in with both feet to help make your dream a reality.
Agreed. 1st steps need to come from Valpo U and then solicit support. Need big time donor(s) to step up first before anything gets released or unveiled by the university. That is how previous campaigns were announced as I recall.
Interesting article on MVC programs and a subjective ranking based on selected criteria. Saw this today on Twitter. Interesting read and analysis. Hard to argue with the report rankings. Apparently facilities matter. [emoji6]
https://watchstadium.com/news/missouri-valley-basketball-coaches-rank-the-best-jobs-in-the-conference-02-01-2019/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vufan75 on February 01, 2019, 12:36:24 PM
Agreed. 1st steps need to come from Valpo U and then solicit support. Need big time donor(s) to step up first before anything gets released or unveiled by the university. That is how previous campaigns were announced as I recall.
Interesting article on MVC programs and a subjective ranking based on selected criteria. Saw this today on Twitter. Interesting read and analysis. Hard to argue with the report rankings. Apparently facilities matter. [emoji6]
https://watchstadium.com/news/missouri-valley-basketball-coaches-rank-the-best-jobs-in-the-conference-02-01-2019/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Don't disagree other than the "game atmosphere" thing. Perhaps it is dead last for an opponent, but when the ARC is rockin you can't get much better.
I do wonder about whether we have some sort of plan ready. I can't say anything for sure but I thought I remember hearing that part of the Strategic Plan involved a concrete plan for Athletic and ARC renovations and needs to be completed sometime this year to begin looking for funding and plans for the future. My guess is that unless someone in the know let's the news leak somehow that we won't see any plans et al until a funding stream/lead donor is found. But I wouldn't be surprised if some donors have not already been talked to about plans and ideas for the renovation in an attempt to get them to sign on.
A "quiet phase" is a part of every fundraising campaign. But it's been a decade now since the topic first started getting discussed publicly (shortly after we joined the HL!). Get a "wish list" out there, some renderings of renovations, something, anything tangible that donors big and small can get behind. This "oh, we'll get around to it as part of the campus master plan after we build a student rec facility that may or may not ever get built" stuff has outlived its sell-by date by several years.
Thank you for sharing that article. Cracked me up when I read what was written about Valpo:
7. VALPARAISO (29) – The Crusaders have gone to the NCAA tourney six times. Homer Drew took them in 1996, '97, '98, '99, 2000, '02 and '04. Bryce Drew took them in 2013 and 2015 while they were in the Horizon league. Valpo has some history, but the facilities and game atmosphere are ranked dead last.
Where they win: "It's in a good spot, about an hour from Chicago and two from Indy. The program also has a national brand because of the Drew family and the fact they won a bunch in their previous league." – Missouri Valley head coach
The knock: "Facilities. They suck." – Missouri Valley assistant
I guess what I was trying to state in my comment is that I wonder if we are not now in the silent phase of the fundraising or about to enter it. For several reasons. 1. A lot of the initial building concerns have been addressed and Heckler has stated he thinks there will be no major building projects in the next few years 2. the Endowment is nearing an ending, 3. We have entered the MVC and there has been plenty of anecdotal evidence that ARC renovations were known to be something that needed to be done. 4. recently updated part of the strategic plan still included a time table for Athletic developments and 5. it has been discussed that they are no longer waiting to build the rec center to move forward with ARC renovations.
Great points - let's hope!
Quote from: VU2010 on February 01, 2019, 02:49:42 PM
Thank you for sharing that article. Cracked me up when I read what was written about Valpo:
7. VALPARAISO (29) – The Crusaders have gone to the NCAA tourney six times. Homer Drew took them in 1996, '97, '98, '99, 2000, '02 and '04. Bryce Drew took them in 2013 and 2015 while they were in the Horizon league. Valpo has some history, but the facilities and game atmosphere are ranked dead last.
Where they win: "It's in a good spot, about an hour from Chicago and two from Indy. The program also has a national brand because of the Drew family and the fact they won a bunch in their previous league." – Missouri Valley head coach
The knock: "Facilities. They suck." – Missouri Valley assistant
Would our ranking have been higher if the writer knew how to count to 9 instead of stopping at 6?
Quote from: wh on February 01, 2019, 06:13:03 PM
Quote from: VU2010 on February 01, 2019, 02:49:42 PM
Thank you for sharing that article. Cracked me up when I read what was written about Valpo:
7. VALPARAISO (29) – The Crusaders have gone to the NCAA tourney six times. Homer Drew took them in 1996, '97, '98, '99, 2000, '02 and '04. Bryce Drew took them in 2013 and 2015 while they were in the Horizon league. Valpo has some history, but the facilities and game atmosphere are ranked dead last.
Where they win: "It's in a good spot, about an hour from Chicago and two from Indy. The program also has a national brand because of the Drew family and the fact they won a bunch in their previous league." – Missouri Valley head coach
The knock: "Facilities. They suck." – Missouri Valley assistant
Would our ranking have been higher if the writer knew how to count to 9 instead of stopping at 6?
That Valpo nine appearances is second only to SIU's 10 BTW. I aso take exception to the #10 rating on game experience. These jokers weren't there for recent games like FSU or St. Marys.
Quote from: vu72 on February 01, 2019, 12:47:26 PM
Quote from: vufan75 on February 01, 2019, 12:36:24 PM
Agreed. 1st steps need to come from Valpo U and then solicit support. Need big time donor(s) to step up first before anything gets released or unveiled by the university. That is how previous campaigns were announced as I recall.
Interesting article on MVC programs and a subjective ranking based on selected criteria. Saw this today on Twitter. Interesting read and analysis. Hard to argue with the report rankings. Apparently facilities matter. [emoji6]
https://watchstadium.com/news/missouri-valley-basketball-coaches-rank-the-best-jobs-in-the-conference-02-01-2019/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Don't disagree other than the "game atmosphere" thing. Perhaps it is dead last for an opponent, but when the ARC is rockin you can't get much better.
When was the last time it's been "rockin"?
St Mary's?
The Illinois State comback? The UNI game was pretty good.
Ok, I have heard enough. It's been 35 years and if the university has any credibility they must address this.
The ARC was rocking for Rhode Island. Several more recent conference games probably approached that level too.
Watching this UNC game and I remembered .... were you guys around when Dickie V come to Valpo? I was. Do you remember that? The atmosphere. Unbelievable. The student section? Huge. Spirited. I think we played Missouri State? How could we have regressed so much since then? National TV.
Same crappy arena. But, the atmosphere itself was so much different. Gotta get back to that level. Paul Oren hit the nail on the head when talking about simple things we could improve on. Like the music. Simple, cost-neutral things.
Quote from: VU2010 on February 02, 2019, 11:23:42 AM
Watching this UNC game and I remembered .... were you guys around when Dickie V come to Valpo? I was. Do you remember that? The atmosphere. Unbelievable. The student section? Huge. Spirited. I think we played Missouri State? How could we have regressed so much since then? National TV.
Same crappy arena. But, the atmosphere itself was so much different. Gotta get back to that level. Paul Oren hit the nail on the head when talking about simple things we could improve on. Like the music. Simple, cost-neutral things.
I think consumers have become more picky with their entertainment $s. Valpo needs to vastly improve the fan experience. Improving the fan experience doesn't have to mean spending lot's of money on halftime shows. It means originality, improved music, fan engagement during timeouts, clever games on the video board, an acceptable sounds system (seriously this shouldn't be hard to fix...), a well funded and performed pep band (bring the band back on the court to taunt the opposing team, get someone with some personality and charisma in the Crusader mascot, think outside the box like bringing in the jazz band one night a year and have them perform. A big thing is getting the students riled up. The student section has been noticeably better the last few weeks, but I mainly attribute that to the fraternities. Much of that was self coordinated by the students and not encouraged or assisted by the athletics department. There still seems to be not much coordination between the greek life office and the athletics dept. Have a night to honor greek life and don't just call it "greek life night" and do nothing special other than announce names over the PA system.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 02, 2019, 11:57:49 AM
Quote from: VU2010 on February 02, 2019, 11:23:42 AM
Watching this UNC game and I remembered .... were you guys around when Dickie V come to Valpo? I was. Do you remember that? The atmosphere. Unbelievable. The student section? Huge. Spirited. I think we played Missouri State? How could we have regressed so much since then? National TV.
Same crappy arena. But, the atmosphere itself was so much different. Gotta get back to that level. Paul Oren hit the nail on the head when talking about simple things we could improve on. Like the music. Simple, cost-neutral things.
I think consumers have become more picky with their entertainment $s. Valpo needs to vastly improve the fan experience. Improving the fan experience doesn't have to mean spending lot's of money on halftime shows. It means originality, improved music, fan engagement during timeouts, clever games on the video board, an acceptable sounds system (seriously this shouldn't be hard to fix...), a well funded and performed pep band (bring the band back on the court to taunt the opposing team, get someone with some personality and charisma in the Crusader mascot, think outside the box like bringing in the jazz band one night a year and have them perform. A big thing is getting the students riled up. The student section has been noticeably better the last few weeks, but I mainly attribute that to the fraternities. Much of that was self coordinated by the students and not encouraged or assisted by the athletics department. There still seems to be not much coordination between the greek life office and the athletics dept. Have a night to honor greek life and don't just call it "greek life night" and do nothing special other than announce names over the PA system.
The ARC staff should probably also try and not kill the vibe of the building by blasting commercials all throughout the timeouts. Other arenas have commercials during timeouts but it feels like the ones at the ARC are a little more jarring and in your face. It takes fans out of the moment if that makes any sense. Just try and find a way to blend them in more subtly without smacking people in the face. I understand it's a revenue generator but I think there should be ways to more tactfully present them.
Quote from: VU2010 on February 02, 2019, 11:23:42 AMPaul Oren hit the nail on the head when talking about simple things we could improve on. Like the music.
So the board is in agreement that a little more Jerry Vale will improve the basketball viewing experience at The Arc?
Quote from: JD24 on February 02, 2019, 09:03:04 PM
Quote from: VU2010 on February 02, 2019, 11:23:42 AMPaul Oren hit the nail on the head when talking about simple things we could improve on. Like the music.
So the board is in agreement that a little more Jerry Vale will improve the basketball viewing experience at The Arc?
Not going to lie, I had to google Jerry Vale. Just better music (I don't care the era) and better timing of when to play which song and sound effect.
Though I disagree with Paul's complaints about the type of music played, I agree with him that the game experience needs to be improved, as I have said a number of times in the past. In fact, I have suggested that the loss of entertaining halftime shows is part of the problem. When acts such as the Jesse White Tumblers, the Bucket Boys (see below), the unicyclists, the juggling acts, and others were regular features, the excitement of the game did not drop to a lull. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the change is due to budget restrictions; therefore, as I have also mentioned previously, I believe various forms of local on-campus talent could be recruited, which would provide free entertainment and engage more of the student population.
Ok the ARC is turning 35 this November! 35 years young. WOW! time does fly. I hear that some want to give the ARC a fairwell birthday gift by closing down its doors and build a new state of the art arena next door. Others say just remove the bleachers and make room for comfortable chair backs in an enclosed oval around the court. To many expressed a need for better parking. A number of fans just want to have updated lighting, a better sound system, a nicer press room, and better services. Some want beer. A few fans just want their programs and not to move the ticket table after the game. These are just a few of the concerns on this thread.
Instead of saying what is wrong with the ARC let's welcome what went right! Let us embrace it's history, victories, players and fans. This November will be the perfect time to do this for the ARC turns 35 years old. Let's schedule Western Michigan who we played 35 years ago when we opened up the ARC. Bring back great players like Peters, Broekhoff and others to introduce our team and meet our fans. Have a meet and greet before the game in our historic renovated hilltop gym from 1939. Promote the ARC with the good times that were had here. The big games that were played, Nortre Dame, Purdue, Florida St., Butler are a few that walked through these doors. Remember the games that took us to the big dance, the Lutheran miracle and the NIT. How great would it be to open next years season with a game that had significance 35 years ago. The University should play this game by embracing its past and promoting its future what ever that may be.
That comment is very sweet, but Valpo needs to move forward and get with the times. This place needs an overhaul. Opponent schools are critiquing it, and it is a detriment to recruiting. It is time to address this.
Agreed. Just a way to get people excited again! We have all heard that the game atmosphere is "dull & atrocious" and that our facilities well "they suck". The administration is aware, the league is aware and so are the fans. Maybe the University has something in the works for upgrades or a new arena , maybe not....all one big secret. In the meantime we can not give up on this program, we need to find ways to promote it and make it fun for our fans.
2019 season home opener vs DII program 2,100 fans...blah
Or
Promote with some history season opener vs DI program 4,000+fans ....now that would be sweet!
It's easy to recruit when we are the at the top or towards the top of the conference (summit, horizon league, etc.) We are all here because we support Valpo so not sure why there's such a big divide regarding the facilities. Our peers and our competition now is the Missouri Valley and they all have better arenas, game day experience, etc than us. What used to be neutral in recruiting is now a big negative. We need higher caliber players in the MVC to be competitive and we need to have success on the court to continue recruiting and so far it's not happening. It is concerning. I feel the team can be/should be successful. . .why keep on hindering ourselves.
I remember MLB saying when he was hired he was asked what he would do to take Valpo basketball\athletics to the next level. Numerous victories conference championships\Tournament appearances a trip to the NIT Final Two conference moves and an increasing media profile have shown that he has succeeded. But we need to reach another level still. For various reasons our next level isn't a conference change. We're home and living the dream there. Our next level is consistently competing at the top of the conference in all sports. Much of that is going to be done in facility upgrades fan comfort\game experience upgrades parking upgrades continued marketing upgrades and (perhaps) further media profile increases and coaching\recruiting budget increases. The question that needs to be asked and answered is what can\do we need to do to get to this level and stay there? Then we need to formulate a plan that gets us there.
We were winning long before MLB got here. His legacy will be the conference moves (positive), facility upgrades (TBD), and post Drew family MBB hires (big TBD).
We really need a field house with turf for multiple sports. It would help recruiting and training across the board. Not mention could be used for intramural and that's a recruit tool for the whole student body.
https://twitter.com/vumso/status/1096433763565875202?s=21
Quote from: VU2014 on February 15, 2019, 03:32:09 PM
We really need a field house with turf for multiple sports. It would help recruiting and training across the board. Not mention could be used for intramural and that's a recruit tool for the whole student body.
https://twitter.com/vumso/status/1096433763565875202?s=21
I've been saying that the Porter property could easily support a second turf field (for in-season fall soccer) that can accommodate an inflateable bubble for winter sports (indoor T&F, M&W soccer, softball and baeball) and intramurals. It's cost would be substantially less by orders of magnitude than a brick and mortar field house and still give the Athletic Department that extra space they so desperately need now. Then a full fledged field house /recreation facility built later when more funds are available would further the initiative and make it permanent>. But the need is NOW (actually, way past now) and the funds needed would be so much easier to raise. That turf field, if placed properly would then continue as the home of Crusader Soccer. To me it's a no brainer, but then I've been accused at times of having no brain, so there's that. :)
I agree with the idea of the bubble and could also even become a small revenue raiser if local teams can use it as well. It does not need to be nearly as large as the one in Crown Point but at least the size of a regulation soccer field.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 03, 2019, 12:56:23 PM
We were winning long before MLB got here. His legacy will be the conference moves (positive), facility upgrades (TBD), and post Drew family MBB hires (big TBD).
An ARC upgrade will be done by someone at some point. It's inevitable. The only question is whether it will be done proactively (while the men's program is still a viable contender with a solid reputation, or reactively (after the program falls on hard times, and after a head coaching change or two. If it's proactive, mh and mlb should be highly praised. If they allow the program to fall off the cliff first they should be fired the day before new construction begins for squandering one of the biggest marketing assets a small private university could ever hope to have.
As the clock continues to tick toward midnight, and the excuses continue to prevail and mount, I have no faith that this will ever be accomplished during mh's tenure. In fact, to date he has not so much as given lip service to it or expressed any sense of urgency.
Quote from: wh on February 15, 2019, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 03, 2019, 12:56:23 PM
We were winning long before MLB got here. His legacy will be the conference moves (positive), facility upgrades (TBD), and post Drew family MBB hires (big TBD).
An ARC upgrade will be done by someone at some point. It's inevitable. The only question is whether it will be done proactively (while the men's program is still a viable contender with a solid reputation, or reactively (after the program falls on hard times, and after a head coaching change or two. If it's proactive, mh and mlb should be highly praised. If they allow the program to fall off the cliff first they should be fired the day before new construction begins for squandering one of the biggest marketing assets a small private university could ever hope to have.
As the clock continues to tick toward midnight, and the excuses continue to prevail and mount, I have no faith that this will ever be accomplished during mh's tenure. In fact, to date he has not so much as given lip service to it or expressed any sense of urgency.
The American Way, keep mortgaging your future by getting the bigger house with more bathrooms. It's a fools errand taking on unnecessary debt at a time of distress.
DORMS FIRST
ARC BEFORE REC CENTER
NEITHER WITHOUT MAJOR DONOR
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 15, 2019, 06:56:51 PM
Quote from: wh on February 15, 2019, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 03, 2019, 12:56:23 PM
We were winning long before MLB got here. His legacy will be the conference moves (positive), facility upgrades (TBD), and post Drew family MBB hires (big TBD).
An ARC upgrade will be done by someone at some point. It's inevitable. The only question is whether it will be done proactively (while the men's program is still a viable contender with a solid reputation, or reactively (after the program falls on hard times, and after a head coaching change or two. If it's proactive, mh and mlb should be highly praised. If they allow the program to fall off the cliff first they should be fired the day before new construction begins for squandering one of the biggest marketing assets a small private university could ever hope to have.
As the clock continues to tick toward midnight, and the excuses continue to prevail and mount, I have no faith that this will ever be accomplished during mh's tenure. In fact, to date he has not so much as given lip service to it or expressed any sense of urgency.
The American Way, keep mortgaging your future by getting the bigger house with more bathrooms. It's a fools errand taking on unnecessary debt at a time of distress.
DORMS FIRST
ARC BEFORE REC CENTER
NEITHER WITHOUT MAJOR DONOR
A terrible analogy, but I understand your point.
Time of distress? The endowment funds just received 10% returns and the endowment drive is in its home stretch Those aren't distress signals. It may not be all rosy given the tone of the recent day of prayer announcement and the closure of the law school but it's not like Valpo is in a death spiral. Plus it's an investment in perhaps our most marketable asset. I've heard it said that the quality of dormitories isn't as high on students list as academic factors\ future job placement anyway but I'm sure we can solve all our problems by cutting the funding to those worthless cheer squads am I right?
An amazing story about how a small private midwestern university leveraged success on the hardwood to achieve its vision:
Butler University unleashes building spree, beautification
July 13, 2018 Scott Olson
https://www.ibj.com/articles/69585-butler-university-unleashes-building-spree-beautification
"Butler's national name recognition, in the meantime, had soared to new heights following consecutive trips by its men's basketball team to the NCAA championship game in 2010 and 2011.
The college began receiving more applications, and still is. This fall, it will welcome 1,350 freshmen, besting the record of 1,255 set in the fall of 2016. Enrollment will climb to 4,600—also an all-time high."
Same thing is happening to Loyola right now. If they can sustain it they'll enter a period of incredible growth.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 15, 2019, 07:25:05 PM
Time of distress? The endowment funds just received 10% returns and the endowment drive is in its home stretch Those aren't distress signals. It may not be all rosy given the tone of the recent day of prayer announcement and the closure of the law school but it's not like Valpo is in a death spiral. Plus it's an investment in perhaps our most marketable asset. I've heard it said that the quality of dormitories isn't as high on students list as academic factors\ future job placement anyway but I'm sure we can solve all our problems by cutting the funding to those worthless cheer squads am I right?
Solid way to sway ppl, keep up the "good" work.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 15, 2019, 08:21:44 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on February 15, 2019, 07:25:05 PMTime of distress? The endowment funds just received 10% returns and the endowment drive is in its home stretch Those aren't distress signals. It may not be all rosy given the tone of the recent day of prayer announcement and the closure of the law school but it's not like Valpo is in a death spiral. Plus it's an investment in perhaps our most marketable asset. I've heard it said that the quality of dormitories isn't as high on students list as academic factors\ future job placement anyway but I'm sure we can solve all our problems by cutting the funding to those worthless cheer squads am I right?
Solid way to sway ppl, keep up the "good" work.
I wasn't trying to sway you or anyone. I admit the crack about the cheerleaders was an unnecessary cheap shot and I shouldn't have gone there. I'm in a bad mood after all these losses and took it out on you. My apologies.
Quote from: wh on February 15, 2019, 07:16:35 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 15, 2019, 06:56:51 PM
Quote from: wh on February 15, 2019, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 03, 2019, 12:56:23 PM
We were winning long before MLB got here. His legacy will be the conference moves (positive), facility upgrades (TBD), and post Drew family MBB hires (big TBD).
An ARC upgrade will be done by someone at some point. It's inevitable. The only question is whether it will be done proactively (while the men's program is still a viable contender with a solid reputation, or reactively (after the program falls on hard times, and after a head coaching change or two. If it's proactive, mh and mlb should be highly praised. If they allow the program to fall off the cliff first they should be fired the day before new construction begins for squandering one of the biggest marketing assets a small private university could ever hope to have.
As the clock continues to tick toward midnight, and the excuses continue to prevail and mount, I have no faith that this will ever be accomplished during mh's tenure. In fact, to date he has not so much as given lip service to it or expressed any sense of urgency.
The American Way, keep mortgaging your future by getting the bigger house with more bathrooms. It's a fools errand taking on unnecessary debt at a time of distress.
DORMS FIRST
ARC BEFORE REC CENTER
NEITHER WITHOUT MAJOR DONOR
A terrible analogy, but I understand your point.
LUDDITE:
"One who is opposed to especially technological change
The Luddite argued that automation destroys jobs."
This arguement is so lame. Dorms do not attract students. A vibrant, exciting campus does. A vibrant campus with a national profile in the media attracts students. Students will stay in subpar apartments to be a part of a great campus environment. Ask Butler. Ask Loyola. Attract the kids who will fill the ARC and it will work out, because with the additional enrollment you can build another dorm and renovate the others. Hey, if you aint' attracting a bigger applicant pool fugetaboutit.
My view: on the previous post:
ARC BEFORE
anything[DORMS
FIRST[ when we get enough applicants (and acceptences with commitments) to justify the build out
NEITHER WITHOUT MAJOR DONOR -- with whatever donors we can cobble together and then invest. Dorms when it is clear we need to build (hell, purchase off campus facilities in the meantime if we need to. Just get the bodies in the door and MBB will do that if we WIN).
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 15, 2019, 08:35:38 PM
LUDDITE:
"One who is opposed to especially technological change
The Luddite argued that automation destroys jobs."
This arguement is so lame. Dorms do not attract students. A vibrant, exciting campus does. A vibrant campus with a national profile in the media attracts students. Students will stay in subpar apartments to be a part of a great campus environment. Ask Butler. Ask Loyola. Attract the kids who will fill the ARC and it will work out, because with the additional enrollment you can build another dorm and renovate the others. Hey, if you aint' attracting a bigger applicant pool fugetaboutit.
My view: on the previous post:
ARC BEFORE anything
[DORMS FIRST[ when we get enough applicants (and acceptences with commitments) to justify the build out
NEITHER WITHOUT MAJOR DONOR -- with whatever donors we can cobble together and then invest. Dorms when it is clear we need to build (hell, purchase off campus facilities in the meantime if we need to. Just get the bodies in the door and MBB will do that if we WIN).
I can't speak to Loyola, but Butler built its "new" apartments next to the football field (which was also renovated before Hinkle), as well as a new rec center in 2006, which was about 7 or 8 years before it renovated Hinkle, and addressed its more recent housing issue by building a new dorm, parking structures, etc. prior to making the 2nd phase of renovations to Hinkle for its practice facility.
I don't disagree with your main point, that kids will follow success, and there's no one right way to go about reaching it, just disagree that Butler ignored its needed campus renovations to focus on making Hinkle nice.
Although I agree with much of what has been said we need to remember that we are passionate sports fans
The bigger picture for the school has to be considered
It's a business
Dorms and rec center service the entire campus....not just athletics
Also
Like it or not
If we aren't winning games at a high level-students aren't going to come out to watch
Times are changing....
Quote from: wh on February 15, 2019, 05:58:05 PMI have no faith that this will ever be accomplished during mh's tenure. In fact, to date he has not so much as given lip service to it or expressed any sense of urgency.
Not so fast wh! Start at 7:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgdv6ilT0cU
Quote from: vu72 on February 16, 2019, 07:54:09 AM
Quote from: wh on February 15, 2019, 05:58:05 PMI have no faith that this will ever be accomplished during mh's tenure. In fact, to date he has not so much as given lip service to it or expressed any sense of urgency.
Not so fast wh! Start at 7:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgdv6ilT0cU
'72 - Good comments by mh. Unfortunately, that was almost 11 years ago.
Quote from: wh on February 16, 2019, 09:29:24 AMGood comments by mh. Unfortunately, that was almost 11 years ago
True enough. But, many of the things he mentioned are now in place like the track, the student fitness center, the locker rooms and the softball field. So, logically (don't know why I said that!) the ARC should be next! Let's hope so.
We have a recent article posted by WH about the building strategy at Butler involving tens of millions of dollars and some partnering in dorm construction. And we have new enrollment records there this year. To add some more perspective of proactive private institution facilities expansion, I'll add a school with which we are associated in the PFL -- Marist. There's a building boom on that campus right now.
They are expanding their athletic facility - Here's a story on the expansion of the gym -- a new auxiliary basketball venue, a varsity weight room (expanding and improving on the former area), a student fitness center (there is another one on the North end of campus in one of the new dorms), a multipurpose indoor athletic area, and I understand there is improved office space for the football coaching staff. https://goredfoxes.com/sports/2018/5/30/205243871.aspx?id=5587
They are building new dorms - North Dormitory Complex
The school replaced an aging dormitory complex with four new large buildings done in the campus palette of Hudson Valley granite with brick and cement trim. They have recently tapped several high rollers to fork over truck loads of money to put their names on three of the four buildings. Here's a couple of stories with videos:
www.marist.edu/-/marist-news-john-and-nancy-o-shea-hall-dedicated-in-campus-ceremony
www.marist.edu/news-detail/-/asset_publisher/G7CuQwHENxbe/content/2018-09-07-lavelle-hall-dedication?inheritRedirect=false
www.marist.edu/-/news-ward-hall-dedication-honors-marist-alumnus-tom-ward-69-and-mary-walker
Steel Plant Studios Expansion & Renovation
Just last week the greatly expanded and renovated Steel Plant Studios were officially opened. They are the home of the Fashion Design and Fashion Merchandising programs (ranked among the top 50 programs in the world) and also contain expanded facilities for the graphic and visual arts. www.marist.edu/-/marist-news-renovated-steel-plant-is-unveiled
Medical School
This summer Marist will break ground adjacent to nearby Vassar Hospital on a new Medical School. Marist will leverage its joint study partnership with IBM to include areas such as cognitive computing and artificial intelligence into the Medical School's cutting edge curriculum. Last year Marist opened the newly built Allied Health Sciences building on campus (containing gross anatomy labs, etc.) housing the newly approved Doctor of Physical Therapy and Master of Physician's Assistant programs.
https://medical.marist.edu
www.marist.edu/science/doctor-physical-therapy/facilities
Further Construction this Summer
Marist will break ground this Summer on the academic quad to begin construction of a new state of the art School of Management building. Marist's School of Management has been AACSB qualified for decades, ranking it among the top 15% of business schools world wide. In addition, nearby aging Dyson Center will be closed for a year, gutted and renovated in a similar fashion to what was done with the Lowell Thomas Communications Center a couple of years ago.
MARIST BACKGROUND
Undergrad Enrollment - 5,038
Endowment - $253 million
U.S News 2017 Ranking - 9th Regional Universities (North)
I'm changing my position for the time being. Renovating the ARC is pointless if we're not concerned about holding the coach responsible for the product on the court.
Who we could have a beautiful arena but with the way things are going on the court - what's it matter?
I have a bad feeling the ARC along with it's overall b-ball program will soon be left in the dust like the law school if we continue on this downward trajectory.
Apart from Peters who hid the flaws, look at where we're at. We'll be lucky to have as many wins if we add this year and last year up as Bryce's last year coaching here. We're terrible. And it's painful to watch.
Quote from: VU2010 on February 17, 2019, 08:24:17 AM
I'm changing my position for the time being. Renovating the ARC is pointless if we're not concerned about holding the coach responsible for the product on the court.
Who we could have a beautiful arena but with the way things are going on the court - what's it matter?
I have a bad feeling the ARC along with it's overall b-ball program will soon be left in the dust like the law school if we continue on this downward trajectory.
Apart from Peters who hid the flaws, look at where we're at. We'll be lucky to have as many wins if we add this year and last year up as Bryce's last year coaching here. We're terrible. And it's painful to watch.
Smile man, it's a marathon!
Lol I guess so - but each season should be a relay race - not oh hey, let's hope for a good team every 4 years. Can you imagine running a marathon for 4 years before getting a reward? Lol no thanks. It would be like running parts of a marathon ... starting off strong ... then blowing it ... getting hurt .... complaining about it ... taking several months off .... getting some momentum back .... hoping for a better rotation with some fresh feet .... and then blowing it once again .... sitting at home hoping to come back strong .... gaining some momentum .... and then blowing it again down the stretch. Wooooohoooo - sign me up!
Valpo was accepted into the MVC based on the success of men's basketball and academics of the university.
So what happens when those two start to decline?
Nothing happens expect we continue to get mocked for our entry and our arena.
Interesting video posted by VU72 from nine years ago. The tone and focus of MH remarks are very solid and can be affirmed.
But here is some fact checking: The new tennis courts, new softball field, football turf, and Hilltop Gym renovation were all designed and funded under Harre. Only the track was funded and dedicated under MH who began in 2008. Maybe MH did something I have forgotten.
MH says in the video that when he travels the first thing people tell him about Valpo is that we have great academics and a great athletics program. In my experiences from traveling, the FIRST thing people say to me is, "Do you guys still have a great basketball team? I remember the shot. How long ago was that?"
Whenever you travel out of Indiana or Illinois try telling someone you are from Valpo and see what their FIRST comment is.
I live outside Indiana and can confirm the people in this part of the country that do know of valpo generally only know about it because of the basketball team. The people here typically either (1) have never heard of valpo or (2) know of it because the basketball team and usually mention the Drews.
Quote from: valpolaw on February 17, 2019, 10:11:46 PM
I live outside Indiana and can confirm the people in this part of the country that do know of valpo generally only know about it because of the basketball team. They people here typically either (1) have never heard of valpo or (2) know of it because the basketball team and usually mention the Drews.
So investing in the basketball program as a marketing tool is a good thing? You don't say.
The local sports radio show in Tulsa always plays "The shot" during the commercial breaks and advertisement. Valpo for the win! Very proud moment especially when I'm riding with other people.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 17, 2019, 03:08:40 PM
Interesting video posted by VU72 from nine years ago. The tone and focus of MH remarks are very solid and can be affirmed.
But here is some fact checking: The new tennis courts, new softball field, football turf, and Hilltop Gym renovation were all designed and funded under Harre. Only the track was funded and dedicated under MH who began in 2008. Maybe MH did something I have forgotten.
MH says in the video that when he travels the first thing people tell him about Valpo is that we have great academics and a great athletics program. In my experiences from traveling, the FIRST thing people say to me is, "Do you guys still have a great basketball team? I remember the shot. How long ago was that?"
Whenever you travel out of Indiana or Illinois try telling someone you are from Valpo and see what their FIRST comment is.
Not sure of all the timing but the facilities site say that lights were added in 2010, the softball complex underwent "substantial upgrades in 2011" and additional upgrades during 2016, including the batting cages in Hilltop. As for men's basketball, upgrades occurred in 2011 including the new scoreboard and shot clocks, Homer Drew floor was dedicated in 2010 and Hilltop just concluded adding a new floor, air-conditioning, nutrition centers, a full wall seperating the softball hitting area from the floor etc.
Of course all the additions to the broadcast abilities have just occurred with more on the way (including running cables out the Eastgate).
MH mentioned the locker rooms that were needed and these have also been done including soccer, football and others. And the weight room and coming new turf will be done or have been done under his watch. Baseball also has announced improvements.
Obviously there are many things that continue to have needs but as you can see, there are people and coaches pulling from all directions. Ask John Kuka!
I remember one alum I used to sit near when they put up the new scoreboard. "Nice to finally have an gym updated for the nineties."
These comments are very accurate. I wonder if Valpo is really strapped for cash. On a national level, the basketball program has far more recognition than the chapel or any choir. It is time the university gives back, especially now that we are in the competitive MVC. If Drake can have a reasonable campus facility, then Valpo can do the same.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 18, 2019, 08:36:22 AM
I remember one alum I used to sit near when they put up the new scoreboard. "Nice to finally have an gym updated for the nineties."
A lot of ARC upgrades are nice and appreciated like the scoreboard, etc but it's sort of like putting lipstick on a pig. We need a full scale reno but that takes lots of $.
Quote from: vu72 on February 18, 2019, 08:12:29 AM
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 17, 2019, 03:08:40 PM
Interesting video posted by VU72 from nine years ago. The tone and focus of MH remarks are very solid and can be affirmed.
But here is some fact checking: The new tennis courts, new softball field, football turf, and Hilltop Gym renovation were all designed and funded under Harre. Only the track was funded and dedicated under MH who began in 2008. Maybe MH did something I have forgotten.
MH says in the video that when he travels the first thing people tell him about Valpo is that we have great academics and a great athletics program. In my experiences from traveling, the FIRST thing people say to me is, "Do you guys still have a great basketball team? I remember the shot. How long ago was that?"
Whenever you travel out of Indiana or Illinois try telling someone you are from Valpo and see what their FIRST comment is.
Not sure of all the timing but the facilities site say that lights were added in 2010, the softball complex underwent "substantial upgrades in 2011" and additional upgrades during 2016, including the batting cages in Hilltop. As for men's basketball, upgrades occurred in 2011 including the new scoreboard and shot clocks, Homer Drew floor was dedicated in 2010 and Hilltop just concluded adding a new floor, air-conditioning, nutrition centers, a full wall seperating the softball hitting area from the floor etc.
Of course all the additions to the broadcast abilities have just occurred with more on the way (including running cables out the Eastgate).
MH mentioned the locker rooms that were needed and these have also been done including soccer, football and others. And the weight room and coming new turf will be done or have been done under his watch. Baseball also has announced improvements.
Obviously there are many things that continue to have needs but as you can see, there are people and coaches pulling from all directions. Ask John Kuka!
Not all investments are equal. A $ invested in the men's basketball goes much further than any other sport at Valpo. It sounds harsh but it's a reality. It's a simple cost-benefit analysis. Men's basketball is probably the only sport at Valpo that reach a mainstream audience (even beyond sports fans) and be a marketing and promotion for the University. But the bright side about doing a ARC renovation is that it could benefit many sports programs of ours.
I think the ARC could be a similar setup as the Knapp Center in a reno. There is a somewhat similar layout.
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/1098010930301022208
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/1098011736391725056
https://twitter.com/HPOnAir/status/1084529376006471680
https://twitter.com/UEAthletics_MBB/status/1088121261039984646
I live in Des Moines and I have gone to numerous Drake basketball games over the years. I think the big advantage the Drake facility has over the ARC is the line of windows along the south wall of the Knapp Center. It provides much light and makes the place seem bright and less confined, more spacious. This is probably a pipe dream on my part, but when the administration gets around to remodeling the ARC, I would put windows along either of the north or west wall. The problem is it would probably cost several million dollars to do this. I think it would be worth it, however, because the ARC is quite dark and confining. Paul
Paul, the problem is that it should not be a pipe dream. A completely renovated ARC is a necessity, not a luxury if we are committed to the MVC. If other schools can like Loyola, Drake and Butler can accommodate, then why can't Valpo?
Sorry, you can only get so much power out of Dodge Dart.
Renovation of the ARC is progressing nicely.
Real interesting points brought up in the most recent post in this thread:
https://csnbbs.com/thread-869082-page-10.html
Says students aren't as interested in dormitories or the traditional residential model of college. Perhaps a feather in the ARC Reno firsters cap. The only question is will Valpo listen?
"Will Valpo listen?"
Spoiler alert: No.
I really hope there's a big swell of support for athletics soon. Otherwise I fear that we'll soon become just another program along for the ride and sponging off of more committed schools and the blame will rest not on Lottich nor on the players or even the AD. The blame will be laid at the feet of a board and president that want all of the benefits of being in a big time basketball conference while doing none of the work to contribute to that conference's success. What do we have to do to get more pro-athletics people on the board? We've modernized our buildings and our approach now all that's left is using one of the best vehicles available to propel the university forward: athletics.
I realize this wouldn't happen, but I'd love to hear MLB make a comment in an interview, USH or the like about how he's disappointed the University hasn't made renovating the ARC more of a priority. He may get a talking to but highly unlikely they'd fire him, and in the meantime it would put the pressure on the admin to step up.
Again, I realize it won't happen, and likely wouldn't make a difference if it did. But I would just like to know someone in a position of (semi) power at Vu is as upset as we are at the lack of progress.
At some point, we all have a choice to make. Stand up for what's right. Or, get washed away in the memories of mediocrity. Some would even say you're aiding the problem by being luke warm about things ... or noncommittal ... or secretive. As for me, I'd hope I'd be man enough to stand up for the very thing I'm supposed to be in charge of - Athletics. Why not? And, in a public but respectful way?
I tried watching his reaction - during the typical last 7 minute of the game melt down - on Saturday. Hard to say what he's feeling. He knows - as well as anyone - what this place was like a few years ago. He knows what it could be like. He's gotta watch the body language and see what we're seeing. He had to do what he had to do when hiring Matt. He's given him a fair shake. Some would say he should be given another year. Fair enough. But after that ... gotta do what you've gotta do.
If we can't even win - in 2 years - what we won a few years ago (30 games), then that's saying something.
Post-Alec (once he sustained his injury and then graduated), we've been abysmal apart from stretches.
And the stretches I see are stretches where we're playing a different kind of basketball. High-paced, full-pressure (at times), not using the shot clock kinda ball. But then, players get a few turnovers and don't run "the play" or shoot too quick in the shot clock or what have you and they're benched. Or, at best left out there as shells of themselves.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 02, 2019, 12:15:01 PM
I realize this wouldn't happen, but I'd love to hear MLB make a comment in an interview, USH or the like about how he's disappointed the University hasn't made renovating the ARC more of a priority. He may get a talking to but highly unlikely they'd fire him, and in the meantime it would put the pressure on the admin to step up.
Again, I realize it won't happen, and likely wouldn't make a difference if it did. But I would just like to know someone in a position of (semi) power at Vu is as upset as we are at the lack of progress.
I think this makes you feel better but I don't think it helps get Valpo to our objective. I think MLB may have an understanding with the BOD and president and he's happy with his situation and knows at this time things won't change until a certain person or situation changes.
Bingo.
The track was a key update by Heckler. But none of other projects (cited by a poster in answer to my post) strike me as "substantive" except perhaps the new Homer Drew court.
Harre raised the funds and created the new tennis courts and football field turf, and built the softball field on campus. Without the football field turf, the track doesn't happen.
Are the racket ball courts still west of the gym?
The original FITT campaign was designed to build the track, tennis courts and softball complex. The end result was that there was enough money when the campaign ran out of steam to build the latter two facilities and a pot of left over money to build the track IF a lead donor could cover the rest. I believe the turf surface was a separate endeavor, but it could have been part of the original FITT package.
Speaking of the turf, which is being replaced this summer, I heard that Valpo is going to make a splash on the athletic scene and has contracted for bright gold grass with brown lines ala Boise State's smurf turf. Nah. Just kidding 😂
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 04, 2019, 08:43:34 PM
The original FITT campaign was designed to build the track, tennis courts and softball complex. The end result was that there was enough money when the campaign ran out of steam to build the latter two facilities and a pot of left over money to build the track IF a lead donor could cover the rest. I believe the turf surface was a separate endeavor, but it could have been part of the original FITT package.
Just a little off. The FITT program was for FOOTBALL (new artificial turf, upgrade to stands to meet ADA standards and moved to acomodate the 8 lane track, new scoreboard and Lighting) INTRAMURALS, TENNIS and TRACK. Softball had nothing to do with it. Tennis was completed first and the funds ran out before the track could be completed. The softball field was finished in 2003 but had extensive work done in 2011 and again in 2016.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/athletics/news/2007-08/7700/work-begins-on-new-athletics-field/
Yeah, that now makes sense. Both of us agree that the campaign ran out of steam before the track could be built. Took a few years to get the Hoger Track underwritten.
A similar campaign could be initiated for the ARC and updates could be staged in conjunction with the funds that come in. But, unfortunately, linear thinking states that nothing shall compete with raising funds for the endowment.
Renovations of the ARC (or a new facility altogether) will go nowhere as long as VU does what it's done for the past 13 years on the issue -- discuss it in the abstract and then punt it because "hey when the ARC is full it's a tough place for opponents" and "we haven't had any donors come forward yet."
Put together a plan for a campaign - broad parameters are all that's necessary here, just say "we're doing this but how soon will depend on the support it gets". Then commission a couple artist renderings and put those front and center. Yeah, then your development staff needs to do their job, but typically, you'll know it pretty short order the level of enthusiasm out there for the project, and then you can get more granular in terms of timeline, specifics, etc.
Article about updates/new arenas for DePaul, Northwestern, Illinois and Loyola.
http://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?pubid=3e7227b1-e3b7-4fac-aa07-5f943e58b4c5 (http://digitaledition.chicagotribune.com/html5/mobile/production/default.aspx?pubid=3e7227b1-e3b7-4fac-aa07-5f943e58b4c5)
Everyone in the area... That's just super for our recruiting outlook...
Wow. I just had a change of mind. I ive 35 miles from UWGB. The men's games are always at the Resch Center with a 6k+ capacity. I kind of assumed that was their thing. But then, after carefully watching UWGB women's highlights on TV, it dawned on me that they play on campus at a 4000+ facility called the Kress Center. All seats are permanent, cushioned, chair backs in green. Beautiful. the men's HL tourney game at the Resch showed a less than ¼ full arena. Tonight the Kress had at least 1000 and it looked better.
I have been converted. Forget about expanding to 6K seats. Forget converting about 5K seats to upgraded same stuff that HS gyms have. Forget about half bleachers and half plastic chair backs. Do whatever we can to duplicate the Kress and build 4K+/- seats, all permanent, cushioned chair backs. Make it a real arena, not an upgraded gym.
I've heard this as well.
They're hidden in between frames in the Zapruder film.
We have a larger endowment than Butler and our schools are of similar size. Don't tell me it can't be done here. If we can't get our budget and facilities to a level where we're competing at the highest level of the MVC that is because we have simply chosen not to. Time to get serious and make the commitment with your actions to match your words.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 09, 2019, 09:19:06 AM
We have a larger endowment than Butler and our schools are of similar size. Don't tell me it can't be done here. If we can't get our budget and facilities to a level where we're competing at the highest level of the MVC that is because we have simply chosen not to. Time to get serious and make the commitment with your actions to match your words.
I can only speak for me, but I think some of us think there are other needs that trump athletics at Valpo. Namely among them dormitories, academic buildings and student rec center.
It's not that we don't want ARC upgrades but the budget is important for long term viability. My vote is dormitories before ARC because Brandt, Alumni and Lankenau were inferior in 2001....what are they now?
I'd love an ARC upgrade but I'd sooner put my vote elsewhere first. Anyone know when those three dorms were last built, sure seemed like 1970s or older. I doubt they have much besides new tile or carpet.
Arc was 1980 right?
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 07, 2019, 04:18:28 PM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 05, 2019, 06:32:10 PM
artist renderings
They exist.
Under lock and key along with documented evidence that the moon landing was faked? Why not put out such documents to give material evidence of forward thinking and aspiration (even if they are just conceptual)? It's something that alums and fans can at least get their minds around. Doing so is not an iron-clad promise with a specific date of completion. It is the first step in moving toward that goal.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 09, 2019, 10:07:55 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 09, 2019, 09:19:06 AM
We have a larger endowment than Butler and our schools are of similar size. Don't tell me it can't be done here. If we can't get our budget and facilities to a level where we're competing at the highest level of the MVC that is because we have simply chosen not to. Time to get serious and make the commitment with your actions to match your words.
I can only speak for me, but I think some of us think there are other needs that trump athletics at Valpo. Namely among them dormitories, academic buildings and student rec center.
It's not that we don't want ARC upgrades but the budget is important for long term viability. My vote is dormitories before ARC because Brandt, Alumni and Lankenau were inferior in 2001....what are they now?
I'd love an ARC upgrade but I'd sooner put my vote elsewhere first. Anyone know when those three dorms were last built, sure seemed like 1970s or older. I doubt they have much besides new tile or carpet.
Arc was 1980 right?
Brandt, Scheele and Lankenau were built in the 1962-64 time frame. Alumni was completed in the 1966-67 time frame.
Hilltop was expanded to include the pool and the Hilltop seating mezzanine/gym #2 (bringing seating capacity to over 4,000) in 1962.
It was an amazing era of campus expansion under President O.P. Kretzman.
I think it is interesting that O.P. recognized the close relationship between general campus expansion/improvement and commensurate expansion/upgrades in athletic facilities.
The expansion of Hilltop into the present day ARC opened in 1983 (according to the VU athletics website) upping capacity to over 5k in a new playing venue.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 09, 2019, 10:07:55 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 09, 2019, 09:19:06 AM
We have a larger endowment than Butler and our schools are of similar size. Don't tell me it can't be done here. If we can't get our budget and facilities to a level where we're competing at the highest level of the MVC that is because we have simply chosen not to. Time to get serious and make the commitment with your actions to match your words.
I can only speak for me, but I think some of us think there are other needs that trump athletics at Valpo. Namely among them dormitories, academic buildings and student rec center.
It's not that we don't want ARC upgrades but the budget is important for long term viability. My vote is dormitories before ARC because Brandt, Alumni and Lankenau were inferior in 2001....what are they now?
I'd love an ARC upgrade but I'd sooner put my vote elsewhere first. Anyone know when those three dorms were last built, sure seemed like 1970s or older. I doubt they have much besides new tile or carpet.
Arc was 1980 right?
Close. Guild/Memorial is the oldest, built in 1946 but was renovated in 1999 and is air-conditioned
Wehrenberg was built in 1959 but was renovated in 1995 and is air-conditioned
Brandt was built in 1962, was renovated in 2016 and has some air-condtioning on the first floor
Lankenau was built in 1964
Alumni was built in 1966
Beacon was built a few years ago and is air-conditioned.
The ARC was opened in 1984, and is hotter than a biscuit on certain days in September!
My guess is the people who are currently seeing any ARC upgrade plans have way more zeros after there net worth than most of us on this board. However, as I understand it they are done building academic buildings for awhile and are focused on upgrades and ARC renos unless a donor shows up ready to front the cost.
Brandt has been upgraded and is definitely an improvement as it also for bunk beds and more freedom with some air conditioning.
Alumni and Lank will be next if funds are available because they are lower costs.
I have also heard that development of land, including working to bring a bar next to campus are priorities as well.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 09, 2019, 10:57:49 AM
My guess is the people who are currently seeing any ARC upgrade plans have way more zeros after there net worth than most of us on this board. However, as I understand it they are done building academic buildings for awhile and are focused on upgrades and ARC renos unless a donor shows up ready to front the cost.
Brandt has been upgraded and is definitely an improvement as it also for bunk beds and more freedom with some air conditioning.
Alumni and Lank will be next if funds are available because they are lower costs.
B
I have also heard that development of land, including working to bring a bar next to campus are priorities as well.
Here are some questions regarding that.
I heard that a parking structure between Scheele/Lankenau and the union would free up valuable land now occupied by the parking lots south of the Softball field. That would free up space for new dorms and/or academic buildings. Happening?
The Porter property remains undeveloped with the exception of a sidewalk and some soccer lines painted on the weeds for intramurals. Two questions: (1) when the hospital was demolished and the land graded and seeded, why didn't the surface specifications require better drainage and high quality grass to allow for additional practice space and better intramural use. To do that now will be considerably more expensive than if it was done initially. (2) the 30 year plan calls for a soccer stadium on the property (along with a field house/recreation facility - still a pipe dream). What's up there with at least some partial land development that is considerably less to build?
East Gate acreage, with the exception of the Em Bauer baseball complex, has largely fallen into disuse as both MSO and WSO pretty much train and play at Brown Field as do T&F (except the throwing events). That land seems very valuable and its sale could fund relocation of Em Bauer Field to the 30 year plan location across from the ARC and maybe more. Possible?
I have heard one plan was to put a parking garage behind the union to add parking space at this time and eventually perhaps allow for one of the lots by the softball field to be more buildings. either business or nursing per the master plan. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens as soon as they can free up some capital because parking is a bit of an issue as commuter numbers rise.
I am unsure about the development of the old hospital land other than I think they remain flexible on specifics but are saving it for athletics.
They have also begun the demolishment of some houses along Linwood avenue and will soon have the old Phi Kappa Psi house lot back as they plan to begin building this summer. They also will soon have Heritage Hall and Weisman Hall to use as they see fit as well. Which might be able to be used as administrative buildings (what better place for a campus museum and Alumni Relations than the oldest building on campus, if you ask me!). which can free up some other space near campus. It really does feel like a big jigsaw puzzle.
My pure speculation: The Endowment campaign will end with some sort of announcement about athletic facilities upgrades and what they are will depend on the donor money raised but I would say that we should at least see ARC renos even if not the full shebang in that announcement.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 09, 2019, 12:04:40 PM
I have heard one plan was to put a parking garage behind the union to add parking space at this time and eventually perhaps allow for one of the lots by the softball field to be more buildings. either business or nursing per the master plan. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens as soon as they can free up some capital because parking is a bit of an issue as commuter numbers rise.
I am unsure about the development of the old hospital land other than I think they remain flexible on specifics but are saving it for athletics.
They have also begun the demolishment of some houses along Linwood avenue and will soon have the old Phi Kappa Psi house lot back as they plan to begin building this summer. They also will soon have Heritage Hall and Weisman Hall to use as they see fit as well. Which might be able to be used as administrative buildings (what better place for a campus museum and Alumni Relations than the oldest building on campus, if you ask me!). which can free up some other space near campus. It really does feel like a big jigsaw puzzle.
My pure speculation: The Endowment campaign will end with some sort of announcement about athletic facilities upgrades and what they are will depend on the donor money raised but I would say that we should at least see ARC renos even if not the full shebang in that announcement.
2021, right? In two years? To quote Stephen Colbert, "Meanwhile....". By then that may be like putting a band aid on a severed arm. This MBB program could be in the dumpster by then saddled with an uphill struggle to save even a fraction of the credibility it once had and that not only includes fans and the general public, but more importantly, MVC level talented recruits.
Hey I didn't say it was speculation that would be satisfactory :)
Quote from: crusader05 on March 09, 2019, 12:48:43 PM
Hey I didn't say it was speculation that would be satisfactory :)
Understand. Just speculating on your speculation ;D
Here ya go. For everyone here who thinks raising funds for an upgrade is easy. https://valpo-openhire.silkroad.com/epostings/index.cfm?fuseaction=app.jobinfo&jobid=618&source=ONLINE&JobOwner=992450&company_id=16674&version=1&byBusinessUnit=NULL&bycountry=0&bystate=0&byRegion=NULL&bylocation=NULL&keywords=&byCat=NULL&proximityCountry=&postalCode=&radiusDistance=&isKilometers=&tosearch=yes&city=
So they don't even have someone in this position.
Am I the only one who thinks this entire athletics department is hanging by a thread?
What a joke and travesty... What are we DOING? Do we care AT ALL about doing well? Good grief that's embarrassing...
I thought (probably wrong) that Ben Boggs was in this position the last couple years?
He was one of the VU folks in the ARC Suite.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
It was just posted, sheesh. You do realize that jobs get posted if someone has given notice that they are leaving right??
Ben has moved on to a new adventure it would seem.
Quote from: M on March 18, 2019, 06:27:29 AMIt was just posted, sheesh. You do realize that jobs get posted if someone has given notice that they are leaving right??
Why sit back and reason when you can kneejerk?
Watching this Georgetown vs. Harvard game @ Georgetown. Wow - a bit shocked to see their arena. I'm thinking this is what people think when they see the ARC. Glorified high school arena. Bleachers are a bad look. Some new chairbacks around the arena + new lights + new paint ... could make a big difference.
https://guhoyas.com/sports/2018/6/6/facilities-gu-mcdonough-arena-html.aspx
Georgetown plays almost all their home games in the DC NBA arena. I'm assuming the unscheduled nature of the post season tourneys forced them to their on campus facility.
Similar to St. John's home games played at
Carnesecca Arena on campus that has a high school gym feel. They play most of their bigger named schools at Madison Square Garden in Midtown Manhattan.
https://stadiumjourney.com/stadiums/carnesecca-arena-s551
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 20, 2019, 07:03:46 PMGeorgetown plays almost all their home games in the DC NBA arena. I'm assuming the unscheduled nature of the post season tourneys forced them to their on campus facility.
Only game of the season at McDonough. Same thing happened last time they were in the NIT. Capitals game tonight at the Capital One Arena
Also, the last-minute nature of the NIT means fewer ticket sales. Most NBA buildings require a crowd of 7 or 8K to break even on the rental fees.
Thanks for the clarification - I was thinking .... there's no way they play at this venue all the time.
There are renderings. The university is not going to pay for new facilities - they may assist in the upgrading of parts of the ARC (arena A/C, new lights, sound system, chairbacks) It has been made very clear that any new athletics facilities will require a major donor to come to play.
The university is having serious financial woes due to the law school debacle - but even before that it was made clear that any improvements had to come from donors. It is a shame that dating back to 1998, there has been a short-sighted view that investment in athletics would not help to build Valpo as a national brand.
Back when the university built the addition to the chapel while the ARC has changed very little, I was definitely salty. What program within the university has the best chance of being broadcast on national television? What facility is shown to a large audience?
Quote from: ksValpo01 on March 21, 2019, 10:57:09 AMBack when the university built the addition to the chapel while the ARC has changed very little, I was definitely salty. What program within the university has the best chance of being broadcast on national television? What facility is shown to a large audience?
Of course a donor gave money specifically for the chapel project.
Even those free small things ac lights sound system and chairbacks would be massive improvements. Just give us those and most of us will be happy. Just that right now would be plenty.
Bowl the lower level with chair backs. (Think Orena in Rochester) LED lighting, a few small cosmetic upgrades to the entrance and we're set for 10-15 years.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 21, 2019, 11:00:48 AM
Quote from: ksValpo01 on March 21, 2019, 10:57:09 AMBack when the university built the addition to the chapel while the ARC has changed very little, I was definitely salty. What program within the university has the best chance of being broadcast on national television? What facility is shown to a large audience?
Of course a donor gave money specifically for the chapel project.
Of course. Athletics is responsible for recruiting their own major donor, but have a list of Valpo supporters who are off limits.
Why would anybody be off limits?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 21, 2019, 12:23:54 PM
Why would anybody be off limits?
Whether you understand it or not 80% of Valpo's big donors don't care a bit about the Athletic Dept and won't donate to it. Ask people on campus if they care about the Athletic Dept & Valpo sports. Most I believe detest Valpo Athletics and think Athletics is most campuses waste money. That is just the way it is at Valpo. They go to Valpo to get away from major college sports.
They should take a look at some of the programs they have if they want to talk about waste of money. I get so mad about academics who make six figures and have permanent job security while getting paid to sit there and read books and in most cases not do anything of any practical value for the world complain about funding and their lot in life. They have it on easy Street and should shut up and be grateful. Somebody should teach them a little bit about economics and marketing but it won't do any good for most of these people.
Quote from: bbtds on March 21, 2019, 03:27:32 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 21, 2019, 12:23:54 PM
Why would anybody be off limits?
Whether you understand it or not 80% of Valpo's big donors don't care a bit about the Athletic Dept and won't donate to it. Ask people on campus if they care about the Athletic Dept & Valpo sports. Most I believe detest Valpo Athletics and think Athletics is most campuses waste money. That is just the way it is at Valpo. They go to Valpo to get away from major college sports.
Because they have them waiting in the wings to do other things. There are donors, who given the chance to get excited about the future of Valpo, would be down for gifting to athletics.
The other piece of this puzzle is that support for athletics on campus has to come from the top. Athletics is a part of the university, no matter how some may detest it. Athletics, particularly football, brings in students and money to the university that they may not have had otherwise (see Evansville after cutting football). There are so many advantages to lifting up athletics in the right way, and part of that is making an investment to get winners in the door.
Crap, why not get a sponsor near and dear to
Valpo to help pay for a major renovation and place their name on the facilility? The Caterpillar or Pampared Chef center? Is there something immoral about that?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 21, 2019, 04:27:02 PM
They should take a look at some of the programs they have if they want to talk about waste of money. I get so mad about academics who make six figures and have permanent job security while getting paid to sit there and read books and in most cases not do anything of any practical value for the world complain about funding and their lot in life. They have it on easy Street and should shut up and be grateful. Somebody should teach them a little bit about economics and marketing but it won't do any good for most of these people.
Not commenting on the profs but on the big donors that support programs at Valpo. Many detest Athletics.
Quote from: ksValpo01 on March 21, 2019, 04:34:18 PMBecause they have them waiting in the wings to do other things. There are donors, who given the chance to get excited about the future of Valpo, would be down for gifting to athletics.
Not really true. Valpo wouldn't have put $15 million into the Chapel if the Helges hadn't wanted to put their money there. If Pastor Helge had met his wife at an athletic event and become a player agent with a rich aunt that worked at AIG, he might have given his $15 million for ARC/Hilltop renovations. In particular do you suppose the Helges appreciate the Athletic Dept at all. I've heard by rumor they absolutely detest Athletics.
I'm saving my donation for Proud to be Valpo Day and it's going to be earmarked for an ARC reno. Won't be much but at least it will be something
https://twitter.com/valpoad/status/1112859064474722304?s=21
Granted, the Helges have been very generous to Valpo as they were also the lead donors for the Union. Athletics have had donors and now may be time to hit them up again. Valpo spent 3.2 million on Brown Field and lighting and the tennis complex must have also cost a couple of million. More recently Jay Christopher gave a million to finish the track and The McDonald's EVP gave 2 million for basketball recruiting, so there are some big buck donors who have contributed to athletics.
Quote from: bbtds on March 21, 2019, 06:44:05 PM
Quote from: ksValpo01 on March 21, 2019, 04:34:18 PMBecause they have them waiting in the wings to do other things. There are donors, who given the chance to get excited about the future of Valpo, would be down for gifting to athletics.
Not really true. Valpo wouldn't have put $15 million into the Chapel if the Helges hadn't wanted to put their money there. If Pastor Helge had met his wife at an athletic event and become a player agent with a rich aunt that worked at AIG, he might have given his $15 million for ARC/Hilltop renovations. In particular do you suppose the Helges appreciate the Athletic Dept at all. I've heard by rumor they absolutely detest Athletics.
The truth is that the world of fundraising and donor relations is complex for many reasons. Donors have their own preferences for where the funds go, as well as the timing of when they might make a donation for personal or tax reasons. Universities have their own preferences. Often, the biggest donors are developed over time, and the relationship between the major gifts officers and the President with the donors is just that: a relationship and not a transaction. During that time, the major gifts officers figure out that the donor has no interest in athletics at all. How does this look in practice? Perhaps a donor gives $25,000 one year for a few years, then the ask is for a larger gift. Maybe the donor is giving toward the VU scholarship fund, yet says "We'd like to endow a professorship for $1M, probably about three years from now." Or maybe the donor says, "We'd like to donate $1M for an academic scholarship to support students studying civil engineering." That donor might be "off limits" from the athletic department - you don't want the Athletic Director or an athletics-focused officer hounding the donor for ARC renovations or a $1M scholarship to support a men's basketball player without coordination from the University's major gifts department. That is a sure-fire way to annoy a donor to the detriment of the University.
Anyone else notice that there's a Pepsi fountain machine in the nutrition shop? Lol .... why???? I like Pepsi too but wouldn't think of it as an integral part of a nutritional shop. Reminds me of the early 90s when we had All Sport. Remember that?? Haha too funny.
Look a little closer. It's all Gatorade.
Gatorade which is owned by PepsiCo's is why we are seeing it on the dispenser and the side of the fridge. Marketing and branding.... kind of like the large M in red and gold under the scoreboard, am I loving it...not really. I would have rather seen Tropicana or Naked Juice (also owned by Pepsi). A much better fit for a nutrition center.
Thanks for pointing that out. Glad it's not soda. Lol.
As for the Golden Arches, I'd be alright if they sponsored a new ARC and could publicize their processed foods al they want.
Heck, I'd even indulge just for the sake of it. I used to love a good Big Mac! Then again, eventually you've gotta cut back on that stuff. Oh, cholesterol. Not my best friend. Nothing like a McDonald's large fry. I usually get a diet drink, though. Then again, my sodium is still too high :(
Mark's monthly AD report. Mentions $1.5 million in improvements and the name of a few donors who are very big time. Nothing about men's basketball!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StWi5292qM4&feature=youtu.be
I
Quote from: vu72 on April 05, 2019, 11:12:12 AMNothing about men's basketball!
??? He mentions the locker room improvements for basketball as well as improvements to Hilltop. It was nice to hear Jim Stueve contributed. Maybe some of our millionaire pros could remember their alma mater...
Look at the bright side ....
There's plenty of room in the locker room right now for everybody (left) to stretch out and enjoy. Could probably give them each a hammock right about now. End tables. Lamps. Maybe even put in a kitchenette.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on April 05, 2019, 12:19:56 PM
Look at the bright side ....
There's plenty of room in the locker room right now for everybody (left) to stretch out and enjoy. Could probably give them each a hammock right about now. End tables. Lamps. Maybe even put in a kitchenette.
Washing machines?
Washing machines ..... how could I forget???
The new arena at the University of Southern Indiana a D2 school is NICE. Take a look.
https://www.courierpress.com/videos/news/2019/03/31/tour-new-screaming-eagles-arena-university-southern-indiana/3315212002/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 06, 2019, 08:35:51 PM
The new arena at the University of Southern Indiana a D2 school is NICE. Take a look.
https://www.courierpress.com/videos/news/2019/03/31/tour-new-screaming-eagles-arena-university-southern-indiana/3315212002/
Only cost them around $66 million too, which honestly isn't terrible for a brand new facility (villanova completely gutted and renovated their similar sized arena for $65 million).
Quote from: IrishDawg on April 07, 2019, 04:51:37 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 06, 2019, 08:35:51 PM
The new arena at the University of Southern Indiana a D2 school is NICE. Take a look.
https://www.courierpress.com/videos/news/2019/03/31/tour-new-screaming-eagles-arena-university-southern-indiana/3315212002/
Only cost them around $66 million too, which honestly isn't terrible for a brand new facility (villanova completely gutted and renovated their similar sized arena for $65 million).
USI is a public university with 10,000 students. Honest question, since they have public money (tax revenue) is that why an endowment of only $100,000,000 is acceptable? Or is that a red flag?
It's sort of like why public school teachers have minimal retirement savings compared to private employees who use 401k. We don't get pensions that come monthly, thereby we are expected to have substantial "endowment" equivalent monies when compared to "public" Universities that get regular tax dollars?
Do most public universities operate with smaller pressures to perform endowment campaigns? I was under the impression that state universities get varied state funds depending on the elected officials, I'd consider a school with a $66,000,000 stadium and only $100,000,000 endowment foolish short of a giant chunk of stadium money coming from lead donors or state funds?!?!
This should not be difficult. Get a sponsor to donate, just like many other schools. Seriously, this is the 21st century, and this can be done tactfully. Get an Indiana company or one with Valpo influence to support this.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 07, 2019, 07:42:40 AM
This should not be difficult. Get a sponsor to donate, just like many other schools. Seriously, this is the 21st century, and this can be done tactfully. Get an Indiana company or one with Valpo influence to support this.
Would the "sponsor" get the same tax breaks donating to a NFP university as much as a NFP (say) children's hospital or cancer research funding org?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 07, 2019, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 07, 2019, 07:42:40 AM
This should not be difficult. Get a sponsor to donate, just like many other schools. Seriously, this is the 21st century, and this can be done tactfully. Get an Indiana company or one with Valpo influence to support this.
Would the "sponsor" get the same tax breaks donating to a NFP university as much as a NFP (say) children's hospital or cancer research funding org?
Suppose what I'm getting at is that the good will/publicity companies get for donating (reducing taxable income) to causes such as the aforementioned would far far far outweigh helping a university with their athletic stadium. In a town of 26,000 ppl in a region of Indiana not known for anything other than Porter Memorial Hospital and Task Force Tips....
Kouts and neighboring towns aren't beacons for brand awareness dollars, who is going to donate to Valpo that has corporate money the size and scope needed for a $30,000,000+ renovation?
I'm skeptical is all, but that's hardly front page news.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 07, 2019, 07:50:14 AMWould the "sponsor" get the same tax breaks donating to a NFP university as much as a NFP (say) children's hospital or cancer research funding org?
Probably. But it well could be taxable non-related business income to Valpo.
Anheiser Busch, Caterpillar, maybe a a Steel company, Whirlpool. The tax situation should be resolved. crap, we are a Christian university, ask Osteen - he has cash.
How about a mega church as a sponsor?
BP???? Family Express???? McDonalds???? Luke Oil???? Urshel Labs?
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on April 07, 2019, 10:01:08 AM
BP???? Family Express???? McDonalds???? Luke Oil???? Urshel Labs?
They are all HQ within 30 miles of Valparaiso and or have significant employee engagement in Valparaiso (next to a cornfield) Indiana?
Do you guys know how hard it is to get money from corporations? They'd rather their customers give $1 at check out and make it seem like THEY did all the work on OUR dime...
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 07, 2019, 10:16:32 AM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on April 07, 2019, 10:01:08 AM
BP???? Family Express???? McDonalds???? Luke Oil???? Urshel Labs?
They are all HQ within 30 miles of Valparaiso and or have significant employee engagement in Valparaiso (next to a cornfield) Indiana?
Do you guys know how hard it is to get money from corporations? They'd rather their customers give $1 at check out and make it seem like THEY did all the work on OUR dime...
Good point on several of them, I got annoyed when you mentioned BP and McDonalds. I just can't believe for one minute that Valpo hasn't approached these companies in the past. I'm as flustered as everyone on the Arc Renovation threads because I have friends who do charitable fundraising for a living and I know how hesitant large corporations are to going outside of Heart Disease and Cancer as a charitable cause.
VU72, can you elaborate on the "taxable" concept that VU might find itself in with a donation such as Arc Renovation? I'm not familiar.
I can't speak to all but Family Express is CHEAP. The other thing you run into is with some of these that are larger but still run by a family like Family Express/white lodging. They have loyalties to other schools like the White's with Purdue. It can be hard to get them to donate to a university.
The Urschel's might be your best bet but they've been throwing money at the town of Valpo lately.
I still say you call up all the Drews and ask them for some donations, rename the thing the DREW and commission a bronze bust of the Homer/Bryce embrace after the shot and put it right outside.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 07, 2019, 10:38:11 AMVU72, can you elaborate on the "taxable" concept that VU might find itself in with a donation such as Arc Renovation? I'm not familiar.
Basicly, it goes like this:
In regulations released in 2002 (IRC Reg. §1.513-4), the IRS created something of a safe harbor for corporate sponsorships. These regulations define a qualified sponsorship payment as a payment for which the sponsor receives no substantial return benefit other than mere acknowledgement by the organization. The major risk with acknowledgement messages is the acknowledgement will contain an inducement to buy the sponsor's products or services. When this occurs, the acknowledgement crosses the line into advertising and becomes taxable as Unrelated Business Income (taxable to Valpo)
I think a steel corporation would be a great sponsor because of the location. Or perhaps some mega church associations where they have lots of cash - I think it would be great publicity and advertising.
Quote from: vu72 on April 07, 2019, 12:15:56 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 07, 2019, 10:38:11 AMVU72, can you elaborate on the "taxable" concept that VU might find itself in with a donation such as Arc Renovation? I'm not familiar.
Basicly, it goes like this:
In regulations released in 2002 (IRC Reg. §1.513-4), the IRS created something of a safe harbor for corporate sponsorships. These regulations define a qualified sponsorship payment as a payment for which the sponsor receives no substantial return benefit other than mere acknowledgement by the organization. The major risk with acknowledgement messages is the acknowledgement will contain an inducement to buy the sponsor's products or services. When this occurs, the acknowledgement crosses the line into advertising and becomes taxable as Unrelated Business Income (taxable to Valpo)
Hmm, I'd have to better understand the 2002 NFP environment to understand the reasoning behind this.
But on the surface it seems like the gov't is telling corporations they aren't in the business of giving tax breaks for brand awareness to large corporations (ie Duke getting a state of the art arena from McDonalds which is tax deductible. Considering that arena will stand for 10+ years as McDonalds arena and the logo on the court gets TV time 1x a week (40-minutes) on prime time from Nov to March....for 10-years)
Am I on a tangent, or was that one of the arguments for the law change?
I only brought up McDonalds because of Paul Schrage, class of 1957 — Retired Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer at McDonald's Corporation. You cant tell me there's not some pull here :)
Let's start with this list - pretty amazing group of individuals. Obviously, some are notable for reasons that may not correlate with financial success. Amazing group of people!
Valparaiso University alumni excel in a number of fields, and are well-known for their service work and efforts to make the world a better place. Valpo alumni remain engaged with the University and form an extensive network that benefits recent graduates. Here are a few of those alumni:
Marjorie Albohm, class of 1972 — Director of Research and Business Development, Ortho Indy; the first woman certified as an athletic trainer in Indiana (Indianapolis)
Linda Allen, class of 1978 — Director, C-130J International Programs, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics (Retired)
G. Allen Andreas, Jr., class of 1965 and Law 1968 — Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Archer-Daniels-Midland
Kathryn Baerwald, class of 1972 — Assistant University Counsel, Georgetown University
Jacqueline Baker, class of 1984 — Registered nurse and founder of health clinic in Vancouver, WA, which treats individuals unable to afford medical care
Richard Bimler, class of 1963 — Former Director, Wheat Ridge Ministries; Valparaiso University Ambassador
N. Cornell Boggs III, class of 1982, J.D. 1985 — Executive Vice President, General Counsel, and Corporate Secretary; Toys R Us Inc.
Stephen Buyer, Law 1984 — U.S. Congressional Representative for the 4th District of Indiana
Denise Casalino, class of 1986 — Won national recognition for her work as project manager for the $200 million+ reconstruction of Chicago's historic Wacker Drive
JoBe Cerny, class of 1970 — Actor, producer and author; voice of Pillsbury Dough Boy and silent actor in Cheers detergent commercials; appeared in My Best Friend's Wedding (1997) and Road to Perdition (2002)
Jay Christopher, class of 1967 — Chairman of the Thatcher Corp., a software developer and reseller in Addison, IL; co-founder of The Pampered Chef
Jeffrey Dippold, class of 1974 — Vice President-Global Markets Finance, Bank of America
Bryce Drew, class of 1998 — Former NBA player (Houston Rockets, Chicago Bulls, New Orleans Hornets); former Men's Basketball Coach, Valparaiso University
Richard Duesenberg, class of 1951 — Retired General Counsel, Monsanto Co.
Robert Duesenberg, class of 1951 — Retired Senior Vice President, General Dynamics
Arthur Fabsits, class of 1962 — Consultant, Hansen Information Technology
Carolyn Femovich, class of 1971 — Executive Director of the Division I Patriot League
Donald Fites, class of 1956 — Former Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Caterpillar, Inc.
Richard Gozon, class of 1960 — Retired Executive Vice President and CEO, Weyerhaueser Co.
Lowell P. Hager, class of 1947 — Professor Emeritus, University of Illinois; National Academy of Sciences inductee
Catherine Jenny, class of 1957 — Retired Director, Addiction Recovery Programs at N Street Village, Washington, D.C.
Heather (Mitchell) Johnson, class of 1974 — Obstetrician and gynecologist, Reiter Hill & Johnson, LLP, Washington, D.C.
Mary Junck, class of 1969 — Chairman, President & CEO, Lee Enterprises, Inc.
Richard Kauzlarich, class of 1966 — Former U.S. Ambassador to Bosnia and Herzegovina
Tiiu Kera, class of 1967 — Major General, U.S. Air Force (Retired)
Robert Kirtland, class of 1991 — Soldiers' MEB Counsel/JAG, Department of Defense-Medical Command
Paul Landahl, class of 1961 — Bishop of the Metropolitan Chicago Synod of the ELCA
Jacki Lyden, class of 1975 — Host and senior correspondent, National Public Radio; author of The Queen of Sheba (1997)
Paul Manske, class of 1960 — Chief of Orthopedic Surgery at Washington University School of Medicine
Lloyd McClendon, class of 1981 — Nearly 20 years in Major League Baseball; Hitting Coach for Detroit Tigers
Holly Messick, class of 1999, Vice President-Corporate Relations, American Heart Association
Julie Meyer, class of 1988 — Founder and CEO of Ariadne Capital Ltd., United Kingdom.
Robert Moellering Jr., class of 1958, 1974 LLD — Chair, Department of Medicine, Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital; Former professor at Harvard Law
Deborah Neymark, class of 1979 — Vice President of Regulator Affairs, Vascular Solutions
Carole Nuechterlein, class of 1983 — Chief Corporate Counsel, Sangstatt Medical Corporation in Switzerland
Rebecca Pallmeyer, class of 1976 — Judge, U.S. District Court
Robert Palumbo, class of 1980 — Associate Professor of Mechanical Engineering, Valparaiso University; research scientist at Paul Scherrer Institute, Switzerland
Eugene Parker, Law 1982 — Attorney and Sports Agent; clients include Deion Sanders, Aeneas Williams, Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, and Emmitt Smith
Michael Rickman, class of 1984 — Corporate Counsel, Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company
T. Marshall Rousseau, class of 1955 — Retired Executive Director of the Salvador Dali Museum, Sarasota, Florida
Robert Rucker, Law 1976 — Justice, Indiana Supreme Court
Ben Schnakenberg, class of 2000 — Associate, High Road Capital Partners
Paul Schrage, class of 1957 — Retired Senior Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer at McDonald's Corporation
Al Seib, class of 1978 — Pulitzer-winning photojournalist, Los Angeles Times
Kathi P. Seifert, class of 1971 — Retired Executive Vice President, Kimberly-Clark Foundation; Fortune magazine's 50 Most Powerful Women in Business in 2002 and Forbes.com's annual "America's Top Businesswomen"
Paul Sieving, class of 1970 — Director of the National Eye Institute
Nick Skytland, class of 2002 — Open Government Initiative Director, NASA
Rene Steinke, class of 1986 — 2005 National Book Award finalist
Jill Long Thompson, class of 1974 — Former Undersecretary, U.S. Department of Agriculture; former member of U.S. Congress; CEO/Sr. Fellow for National Center for Food & Agriculture
Charles R. Vaughan, Law 1957 — Attorney, defended Ryan White, AIDS victim
Amy Vie, class of 1989 — Vice President, U.S. Institutional Sales, Shire
Marc Voth, class of 1965 — Nuclear Reactor Inspector for the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
Richard Wamhoff, class of 1967 — Retired Vice-President, Asia/Pacific & Global Manufacturing/Supply Chain, H.J. Heinz Company; Retired President/CEO, Ore-Ida Foods
Julie Winkler, class of 1996 — Managing Director of Research and Product Development, CME Group
Ron Zech, class of 1965 — Chairman and CEO, GATX Corporation
Ginger Zuidgeest (Zee), class of 2002 — Meteorologist, ABC News
Jennifer Lake Zigmund, class of 2004 — Vice President, Zapwater Communications
I still think Eugene Parker should be part of the Valpo Athletics Hall of Fame - in SI he was recognized as one of the top 50 African- American influencers in sports. a great person.
I still wish we had embraced the Pillsbury doughboy more. Maybe a little statue of him on campus. Some Pillsbury bobble heads. I'm sure we could work with the company for trademark/copyright permission
Quote from: crusader05 on April 11, 2019, 03:11:03 PM
I still wish we had embraced the Pillsbury doughboy more. Maybe a little statue of him on campus. Some Pillsbury bobble heads. I'm sure we could work with the company for trademark/copyright permission
Well, we do have a Valpo connection there. My ex-roommate, JoBe Cerny
https://www.nwitimes.com/entertainment/columnists/offbeat/pillsbury-doughboy-and-jobe-cerny/image_32dc4432-b4ec-592e-a014-384638fde79f.html
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on April 11, 2019, 10:43:52 AMLet's start with this list - pretty amazing group of individuals. Obviously, some are notable for reasons that may not correlate with financial success. Amazing group of people!
So this is the list from the distinguished alumni page? Really surprised that it does not include all of the award recipients. A friend of mine is an DA award winner and surprised he was not on this list.
Christopher (Chris) J. McDougle, MD class of 81 - Nancy Lurie Marks Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School and Director, Lurie Center for Autism.
Quote from: FWalum on April 11, 2019, 05:44:34 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on April 11, 2019, 10:43:52 AMLet's start with this list - pretty amazing group of individuals. Obviously, some are notable for reasons that may not correlate with financial success. Amazing group of people!
So this is the list from the distinguished alumni page? Really surprised that it does not include all of the award recipients. A friend of mine is an DA award winner and surprised he was not on this list.
Christopher (Chris) J. McDougle, MD class of 81 - Nancy Lurie Marks Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School and Director, Lurie Center for Autism.
It certainly isn't "all Inclusive". As an example, it doesn't include Bob Hansen, recently retire CEO of Dow Corning.
No idea why we wouldn't include everyone ... great points. Not sure who adds them.
Nice list, now they need to give back to make Valpo basketball great again.
How about the company that produces Oreville's Best?
again, how about a mega Church?
There is a VU school planning athletics renovations. Sorry...couldn't resist.
Vandy announces upgrades to Vanderbilt Stadium, Memorial Gym & Hawkins Field ... and hints at more to come. https://t.co/4A904tGrEy via @tennessean
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
For what it is worth to basketball fans, the new turf at Brown Field is being installed now.
Quote from: vu72 on May 28, 2019, 01:31:22 PM
For what it is worth to basketball fans, the new turf at Brown Field is being installed now.
How about any progress on the BB field upgrade?
Quote from: vufan75 on May 28, 2019, 01:11:22 PM
There is a VU school planning athletics renovations. Sorry...couldn't resist.
Vandy announces upgrades to Vanderbilt Stadium, Memorial Gym & Hawkins Field ... and hints at more to come. https://t.co/4A904tGrEy via @tennessean
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
If you've ever been to a BB game at Vandy, you know that the ARC is actually nicer. Theirs is the strangest arena I've ever been to.
Quote from: valpospartan on May 28, 2019, 09:49:54 PM
Quote from: vufan75 on May 28, 2019, 01:11:22 PM
There is a VU school planning athletics renovations. Sorry...couldn't resist.
Vandy announces upgrades to Vanderbilt Stadium, Memorial Gym & Hawkins Field ... and hints at more to come. https://t.co/4A904tGrEy via @tennessean
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
If you've ever been to a BB game at Vandy, you know that the ARC is actually nicer. Theirs is the strangest arena I've ever been to.
I've been to both as well, and in terms of sight lines and being close to the action as a fan, Memorial is awful. But it depends on the definition of "nicer" because outside of the sight lines, I can't think of anything that the ARC has that is nicer than Memorial. The uniqueness of the sidelines and the layout of the arena itself because it's a combination concert hall and gymnasium is a big part of the allure of it, IMO. Not to mention it's in Nashville, which is a fun place to visit in general.
Quote from: vufan75 on May 28, 2019, 01:11:22 PM
There is a VU school planning athletics renovations. Sorry...couldn't resist.
Vandy announces upgrades to Vanderbilt Stadium, Memorial Gym & Hawkins Field ... and hints at more to come. https://t.co/4A904tGrEy via @tennessean
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If you guys think the ARC is bad you should hear the complaints about Vandy's football stadium. Not "updated" since 1981. Bathrooms etc. Vandy football is awful and the stadium experience isn't exactly drawing them in. I suspect the major improvements will be to football. When you think of the Vandy resources, it is hard to imagine why their facilities are so poor, particularly as they relate to the SEC. They are, in some small way, in a similar place as Valpo, in that they are competing as a private, high academic school, against large state funded institutions.
Memorial basketball facility improvements per the article in the paper are to include:
"Memorial Gym will get new state-of-the-art lighting and sound systems for basketball games in coach Jerry Stackhouse's first season. And Turner said renovations are planned for the basketball locker rooms."
I think Valpo has renovated the basketball locker rooms(??), but new lighting and sound system improvements would certainly be welcome in the ARC.
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https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1138534704502759424
What are they doing to the outside? Are they spending the Vanderbilt money on this (I have to assume we're not playing that series with Bryce gone there's no need for them to honor that agreement)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 11, 2019, 03:51:21 PM
What are they doing to the outside? Are they spending the Vanderbilt money on this (I have to assume we're not playing that series with Bryce gone there's no need for them to honor that agreement)
You make a good guess, maybe. But I'm not certain that buying out the game is a smart idea especially if they aren't At Large bound in the immediate future. Having Jerry Stackhouse doesn't change their players' abilities.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 11, 2019, 04:27:50 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 11, 2019, 03:51:21 PM
What are they doing to the outside? Are they spending the Vanderbilt money on this (I have to assume we're not playing that series with Bryce gone there's no need for them to honor that agreement)
You make a good guess, maybe. But I'm not certain that buying out the game is a smart idea especially if they aren't At Large bound in the immediate future. Having Jerry Stackhouse doesn't change their players' abilities.
Mark LaBarbera has already said an SEC team is coming to the ARC next season. I would contribute a bunch(for me) if it is anybody other than Vandy.
I was at the university today for some work and noticed a number of activities all across the campus. I watched as they poured concrete at the entrance to the ARC. I saw the finishing touches being done on the football field turf. I noticed renovation of the chapel entrance taking place. Also, I observed some major renovations occurring at the Uptown apartments. The first focus sessions for next year's incoming class happen this week. The weather was sunny and warm with temperatures in the low 80s, and I must say that the campus looks inviting in these conditions.
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1140663976881217536
Turf looks good :thumbsup:
Do we still have the Notre Dame style lines on a diagonal in the endzones?
It's cool and all but pull a 180 with this camera and that is what the overwhelming majority of Valpo Athletics fans/alums/students want to see an upgrade on. MLB knows this already though.
Quote from: VU2014 on June 24, 2019, 01:56:12 PM
It's cool and all but pull a 180 with this camera and that is what the overwhelming majority of Valpo Athletics fans/alums/students want to see an upgrade on. MLB knows this already though.
The press box?? :rotfl:
Quote from: vu72 on June 24, 2019, 03:23:35 PMQuote from: VU2014 on June 24, 2019, 01:56:12 PMIt's cool and all but pull a 180 with this camera and that is what the overwhelming majority of Valpo Athletics fans/alums/students want to see an upgrade on. MLB knows this already though.
The press box?? :rotfl:
In all seriousness, the football stadium needs to be redone. Its an embarrassment, especially now that it is used for Track and Field and Soccer as well. As said, I'm sure most fans, alums and students would rather see an ARC upgrade, but Brown field is probably worse off than the ARC is.
Quote from: vu72 on June 24, 2019, 03:23:35 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 24, 2019, 01:56:12 PM
It's cool and all but pull a 180 with this camera and that is what the overwhelming majority of Valpo Athletics fans/alums/students want to see an upgrade on. MLB knows this already though.
The press box?? :rotfl:
You know what I meant ;)
I agree wholeheartedly that the home grandstand needs to be replaced with a college style grandstand and that the press box need to be expanded and upgraded. Right now, if we moved all our football games to Merrillville HS we would do a better job of projecting a real college venue.
HOWEVER, what I really wanted to do was to mention that Aaron and the SID staff have done a great job at upgrading the Facilities section of the athletics website. I encourage everyone to give it a look.
I also fed back to Aaron that they should probably expand the presentation to also include the Hilltop BB Practice Center, the Kroencke Weight Training and Performance facility and that, in today's world, Valpo needs to highlight the athletic training facilities (despite the fact that they need a lot of upgrading).
Any updates regarding anything that's been done to the ARC? I love how many of us participated in the survey this past spring. And, yet - we've never seen any of the results, feedback, or findings. Figures. All in vain.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on July 06, 2019, 10:49:35 AM
Any updates regarding anything that's been done to the ARC? I love how many of us participated in the survey this past spring. And, yet - we've never seen any of the results, feedback, or findings. Figures. All in vain.
I am happy report that we have a new 3 point line painted on the court :thumbsup:
ROCK THE ARC
7-10pm Sunday August 18... the day after the Freshmen move into the dorms
you now know as much about this as I do.
Just an FYI on what another D-I college similar to Valpo in size and academics is doing to maintain their competitiveness athletically. We compete with Marist in football and we play at generally a similar level in mid-major basketball.
https://goredfoxes.com/sports/2018/5/30/205243871.aspx?id=5587
MVC>MAAC but I agree generally except that I believe that we have a better program history even if we can't claim a #2 draft pick.
pretty similar endowments as well.
The Marist and Valpo basketball programs are not particularly comparable historically.
Just got this email. This could greatly impact the future of athletics (and the associated facilities), depending on the direction the board decides to go... For better or for worse.
President Heckler has resigned, pending a replacement search.
Dear Alumni,
We are on the cusp of a new academic year. We can almost feel the campus flush with the energy of new and returning students – the air filled with their dreams for an exciting year ahead. For faculty and staff, it is also a time of reflection about what we hope to accomplish – hope for how we can guide and aid our students in their journeys forward as young servant leaders and hope for how we each will take our own personal journeys forward. It is a time of new beginnings for all.
This year, for me, signals a new beginning of another kind – the transition to a change in leadership at Valparaiso University. After deep reflection and prayer, I have recommended to the Board of Directors that it begin the search process to identify the next president of Valparaiso University.
Let me share my reasons for this decision.
From a logistical standpoint, it may take time to search, hire and effectively transition to the next president. Therefore, the process must begin now to ensure continuity of presidential leadership.
I anticipate additional leadership succession at the Board and senior administrative levels. It is vital that these changes follow in a thoughtful and intentional sequence to ensure uninterrupted continuity of institutional momentum, knowledge and experience, as well as the smooth and effective transfer of authority from one generation of leaders to the next.
With the rapid changes in the educational landscape I want to ensure that the next president has the strengths and skill set to address these challenges over the next five years and beyond.
The University and Board must be bold and far-seeing in the scope of decisions over these next five years. These decisions must be well-considered, which takes time, and backed by the will and resources to implement these decisions. Valpo's president must own these decisions and be accountable for their outcomes.
Last at a personal level, it is my desire and Veronica's to enjoy the blessing of time with our nine grandchildren and precious time with our parents.
The Board accepted my recommendation at its July 2019 meeting and has initiated its search process. Let me assure you that my dedication to the University remains as strong as ever, and I will do everything possible to ensure the transition is a smooth one. I have committed to the Board that I will serve as your president until such time as a successor has been identified and is prepared to assume office. For a transitional period afterward, I will continue to serve the University in areas identified by the Board in consultation with the new president, after which time I plan to retire.
It is the greatest privilege of my life to be among your company and to undertake this noble work. I am so very grateful for your support of our beloved University.
Blessings!
Mark A. Heckler Signature
Mark A. Heckler
President
Holy crap!
Well, we're either about to have a new ARC or be D-3 in the next five years.
Please get a president that recognizes the value of athletics and cares about making us a strong program. Please.
Ho-mer! Ho-mer! Ho-mer! Ho-mer!
I think Homer is too busy with his job at the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant...
D'oh!
[tweet]1162467423234199552[/tweet]
[tweet]1162467471099666432[/tweet]
[tweet]1162468098617876481[/tweet]
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A/C - check!
Seating - check!
Lighting - check!
Video upgrades - check!
Audio system - check!
And all of God's people said, "Amen!"
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 17, 2019, 08:54:17 AM
A/C - check!
Seating - check!
Lighting - check!
Video upgrades - check!
Audio system - check!
Really the only one of these that would necessitate significant funding would be the AC. All the other stuff would likely be cosmetic and need a couple million to complete.
Quote from: IrishDawg on August 17, 2019, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 17, 2019, 08:54:17 AM
A/C - check!
Seating - check!
Lighting - check!
Video upgrades - check!
Audio system - check!
Really the only one of these that would necessitate significant funding would be the AC. All the other stuff would likely be cosmetic and need a couple million to complete.
It depends on what the seating upgrade looks like. Building new permanent arena seating (like Loyola's Gentile Center) could be quite expensive.
Covers the main items I agree but.....I'm greedy. Also want more concession areas, ability to sell beer/wine, more or larger bathrooms (on north and west sides?) and some type of upgraded parking.
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Windows. The ARC needs some natural lighting. Too dark.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on August 17, 2019, 01:24:34 PM
Windows. The ARC needs some natural lighting. Too dark.
Paul
Besides seating/sound system/lighting I think natural light is my next top "want". We play enough Sunday afternoon games and the ARC is used for more than just nighttime.
Even air conditioning could be localized to playing area + locker rooms only. We don't need the top floor gym, racket ball court, hallways or basement rooms air conditioned. Do we really think a/c would even come close to the cost of new seating? I haven't a clue, I'd expect duct work with compressors in the aforementioned area couldn't run more than $200,000. I'd expect flooring and seating to be a good deal more because we all want permanent structures and not pushback bleachers.
Window a/c units for coaches offices will suffice. Perspective athletes want facility and conference room (film room) luxury and they don't care about the track coaches office etc. Does the basketball wing have it's own central a/c for the offices only?
With the recent comments by Labarbera with both Vickery and Oren shows, I can now confidently share what I've heard with it being alluded to twice by the AD. I have it from a school source that they saw the renderings of what the possible plans for the ARC renovations could be prior to a meeting. Some of the improvements they saw were chair backs all around (not sure about student section), removal of the track on the second level for seats and function space, second-level box looking areas, and overall major cosmetic overhaul. They only and a few second glance at it before it was promptly closed out but said it looked great. So this is what I'm hoping for when I hear the AD talk about improvements so we will see.
Nice to hear the talk but I'll believe it when shovel hits dirt.
Quote from: vufan75 on August 17, 2019, 11:24:27 AMCovers the main items I agree but.....I'm greedy. Also want more concession areas, ability to sell beer/wine, more or larger bathrooms (on north and west sides?) and some type of upgraded parking. Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
We finally appear to be moving in the right direction facilities-wise. Let's get what we realistically can within the next few years which are a critical period for our program and push for bigger stuff later. Unless we really do have a wholesale upgrade coming in which case let's do it!
I've heard they're shopping for a lead donor so those plans will probably stay under lock and key until they have a decent chunk of the donations locked up.
Something else I've heard that will please USC is that they are seriously looking into an online graduate school program similar to other universities
BTW, my "check" meant nothing more, repeat, nothing more, than it it is firmly on MLB's radar screen. That revelation is major. Why? Because this forum has been flying blind and not understanding what the athletic administration was looking at. Now at least we know. I'm glad Mark made the statements he did. Finally, we know the scope of improvements for the ARC.
BTW(2), Fan75, I can't conceive of any of the configuration checklist items being done without concessions being involved.
https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1164345818666668033?s=20
Here is the kicker for me on the MLB interview: all or nothing. Wait. Then Wait. And then do it all at once.
NO. NO. NO.
Get $500K? upgrade the sound system ASAP.
Receive another $500K? Replace the lighting.
Whoa, another $500K? Super! Replace all the lower seating with top grade retractable chair-back seating.
And so on.
If course this should all be done within the parameters of the newly financed feasibility study and should conform with any plan that comes out of that plan.
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 21, 2019, 08:55:37 PM
Here is the kicker for me on the MLB interview: all or nothing. Wait. Then Wait. And then do it all at once.
NO. NO. NO.
Get $500K? upgrade the sound system ASAP.
Receive another $500K? Replace the lighting.
Whoa, another $500K? Super! Replace all the lower seating with top grade retractable chair-back seating.
And so on.
If course this should all be done within the parameters of the newly financed feasibility study and should conform with any plan that comes out of that plan.
Reading between the lines here, but don't we think if he thought we didn't have the donors then he wouldn't say "all in one shot"?
Maybe he's just building expectations of future possible donors, but I think it would be degrees or magnitude easier to publicly say $500K now for Seating etc etc.
I'd like to think he has a renewed sense of possibilities for a reason!?!?
To be fair, I don't think renovating the ARC is like renovating a single family home... it's a lot harder the piece meal things together and make it turn out looking good. That's my 2cents for whatever it's worth, but I'm no contractor or architect, so what do I know.
Quote from: VU2014 on August 21, 2019, 09:10:56 PM
To be fair, I don't think renovating the ARC is like renovating a single family home... it's a lot harder the piece meal things together and make it turn out looking good. That's my 2cents for whatever it's worth, but I'm no contractor or architect, so what do I know.
What I took from the article is that the buy-out revenue is going to be used to buy home games, and the money for an ARC renovation is completely separate. It's much better financially for the school to get it done all at once, especially since it's mostly cosmetic upgrades, and if there is a recession on the horizon, they'll absolutely want to secure funding now.
I do think it's interesting that they waited until the President announced his retirement to make this funding push for the school's most well-known commodity, but could be coincidence.
What was once just the title of a mediocre romantic comedy starring Ryan Reynolds that my wife made me sit through many years ago is now MLBs go to answer when it comes to ARC renovations:
"Definitely, Maybe"
This thread has reached 50 pages...not sure how to appropriately react to that.
It's the 800 pound gorilla in the room that everyone wants to talk about. I understand the intrigue and concern about this topic but sometimes I just get a little tired of it because it really is as simple as getting the funding and then it will get renovated. Unfortunately funding something that large is a massive undertaking and not so simple a task
Perhaps it is a very important topic requiring attention.
I thought I might just add a little "hope" to this thread. Obviously, I won't disclose who told me this but will say it is an alumni who is well connected. In addition, I was visiting the ARC during Homecoming and stuck my head into watch a Women's Basketball practice. While standing there, an elderly gentlemen and friends walked in and I overheard him describing possible changes to the ARC like new seating, new lights etc., as if he had direct knowledge as to the renovation plans.
As for what I heard, it is as follows: The President wants the renovations to start before he departs. The search for his replacement is currently underway...
OH GOD YES! THANK YOU! PLEASE BE TRUE!
Me hearing ARC Reno rumors:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Ou18ZgE49Fss0/giphy.gif)
My daughter and we're at UNI today on a visit day as she narrows down her college search. They showed the McLoed Center, which is their multi purpose arena. It is very practical, beautiful, has a 7000 seat capacity and looks like a great place to watch basketball and other sports. This is the kind of facility Valpo needs for many of their needs.
Saw they had a Brad Paisley concert there and various other events that would be attractive to more than just sports fans.
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 11, 2019, 05:10:46 PMMy daughter and we're at UNI today on a visit day as she narrows down her college search. They showed the McLoed Center, which is their multi purpose arena. It is very practical, beautiful, has a 7000 seat capacity and looks like a great place to watch basketball and other sports. This is the kind of facility Valpo needs for many of their needs.
Well said. I've long felt that UNI is the program we need to be emulating for our best chance for success in the MVC.
UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?
Quote from: vu84v2 on October 12, 2019, 09:48:14 AM
UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?
Good info 84. Thanks for that perspective. It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation. And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands. A conversion to a
comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restrooms, concessions, etc., etc., and a second level would add some more seating above) would IMO be the ultimate goal. In the meantime, there are still incremental, non-capital construction improvements that would transition well toward that goal, e.g, new sound system and AC (both sized to support the future expansion) and improved LED court lighting.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 12, 2019, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on October 12, 2019, 09:48:14 AM
UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?
Good info 84. Thanks for that perspective. It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation. And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands. A conversion to a comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restrooms, concessions, etc., etc., and a second level would add some more seating above) would IMO be the ultimate goal. In the meantime, there are still incremental, non-capital construction improvements that would transition well toward that goal, e.g, new sound system and AC (both sized to support the future expansion) and improved LED court lighting.
I'm not so sure that the University should strive to have a larger facility, but should strive to have a nicer facility. Attendance across all sports is on a downward trend. If the trend over the last 10-15 years at VU continues, then average attendance per game for MBB in 10 years will be around 2000. If VU isn't selling out a 5000 seat arena, why increase capacity, even if downward trend levels off? Seems to me that the effort should be toward improving. For example, additional restroom facilities, additional concessions, and better parking.
Quote from: 4throwfan on October 14, 2019, 08:30:04 AMGood info 84. Thanks for that perspective. It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation. And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands. A conversion to a comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restroo
Quote from: 4throwfan on October 14, 2019, 08:30:04 AMQuote from: VULB#62 on October 12, 2019, 11:13:46 AMQuote from: vu84v2 on October 12, 2019, 09:48:14 AMUNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?
Good info 84. Thanks for that perspective. It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation. And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands. A conversion to a comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restrooms, concessions, etc., etc., and a second level would add some more seating above) would IMO be the ultimate goal. In the meantime, there are still incremental, non-capital construction improvements that would transition well toward that goal, e.g, new sound system and AC (both sized to support the future expansion) and improved LED court lighting.
I'm not so sure that the University should strive to have a larger facility, but should strive to have a nicer facility. Attendance across all sports is on a downward trend. If the trend over the last 10-15 years at VU continues, then average attendance per game for MBB in 10 years will be around 2000. If VU isn't selling out a 5000 seat arena, why increase capacity, even if downward trend levels off? Seems to me that the effort should be toward improving. For example, additional restroom facilities, additional concessions, and better parking.
Make all seats chair backs, widen aisles and improve access to seats. Make lower portion a bowl. North end put suites where the track is. To the point above, that likely keeps capacity roughly equal to where it is at today (maybe even reduces it a bit) but greatly improves comfort. Don't need a brand new building. ARC has the bones to be a great facility for a school our size. Just needs a few million dollars worth of TLC.
Quote from: 4throwfan on October 14, 2019, 08:30:04 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 12, 2019, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on October 12, 2019, 09:48:14 AM
UNI's McLeod Center cost $26M when it was built, which would be about $32M in today's dollars. Gonzaga built a similar 6000 seat stadium and it was roughly the same price in today's dollars, so we can assume that a similar stadium would be about $32M for Valpo. What is the business plan that would justify a capital spend of $32M to replace the ARC? If you were investing your money, do you think that this would be a good investment versus other options (renovation of the ARC) and needs (old dorms and business building)?
Good info 84. Thanks for that perspective. It certainly skews thinking towards an ARC renovation. And even that will be costly but more justifiable and in line with other campus facilities demands. A conversion to a comfortable 5K-6K capacity arena (assuming that the north side will be expanded on the ground level for athletic support facilities, additional restrooms, concessions, etc., etc., and a second level would add some more seating above) would IMO be the ultimate goal. In the meantime, there are still incremental, non-capital construction improvements that would transition well toward that goal, e.g, new sound system and AC (both sized to support the future expansion) and improved LED court lighting.
I'm not so sure that the University should strive to have a larger facility, but should strive to have a nicer facility. Attendance across all sports is on a downward trend. If the trend over the last 10-15 years at VU continues, then average attendance per game for MBB in 10 years will be around 2000. If VU isn't selling out a 5000 seat arena, why increase capacity, even if downward trend levels off? Seems to me that the effort should be toward improving. For example, additional restroom facilities, additional concessions, and better parking.
Completely agree, a 5,000 seat arena is not my vote. Strive for 4,200 seats and work towards sell outs. Anything smaller than 4,000 seats would "seem" tiny (no facts or figures behind that, just a feeling). If we sell out an arena with creature comforts (ac), updated lighting, sound, video screens and permanent seating I don't think many can be justified in their complaints. Valpo is cornfield adjacent with large cities within driving distance that have arenas and entertainment venues. Our student body is routinely between 3,500 and 4,500 and a venue arena is just not feasible. I think trying to attract entertainment acts to our "upgraded" arena is not going to cover the added costs associated with making it lucrative (more seats etc etc).
4k, 5k 6k whatever, the goal has got to be comfort AND appearance (uh, like a college arena and not a glorified HS gym). It is my belief that cannot be done using the existing footprint - squeezing 10 lbs. of apple sauce into an 8 lb. can. The north side must be developed to facilitate any major makeover in order to have the ground floor space for additional rest rooms, concessions, and to reduce the overcrowding in the locker area on the south side. By expanding to the north all of the other suggestions below can be more easily accommodated.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 14, 2019, 01:48:33 PM
4k, 5k 6k whatever, the goal has got to be comfort AND appearance (uh, like a college arena and not a glorified HS gym). It is my belief that cannot be done using the existing footprint - squeezing 10 lbs. of apple sauce into an 8 lb. can. The north side must be developed to facilitate any major makeover in order to have the ground floor space for additional rest rooms, concessions, and to reduce the overcrowding in the locker area on the south side. By expanding to the north all of the other suggestions below can be more easily accommodated.
I could be sold on adding some sort of promenade on the north side behind the Chairbacks that would add different things. For me, the other important changes/improvements would be adding chairbacks to the south side, and adding some close parking.
I'm not sure that the improved parking thing is going to happen, since good parking part of fundraising - I doubt that the university is going to change the business model for that.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 14, 2019, 01:48:33 PM
4k, 5k 6k whatever, the goal has got to be comfort AND appearance (uh, like a college arena and not a glorified HS gym). It is my belief that cannot be done using the existing footprint - squeezing 10 lbs. of apple sauce into an 8 lb. can. The north side must be developed to facilitate any major makeover in order to have the ground floor space for additional rest rooms, concessions, and to reduce the overcrowding in the locker area on the south side. By expanding to the north all of the other suggestions below can be more easily accommodated.
I am in agreement that adding seating is not a priority. I do think we have to remember that the facility is also used for things like graduation. Niece graduated this Spring and the place was packed to the point of being very uncomfortable, especially without AC. If you take away 500 to 1000 seats I really don't think this is feasible unless events like Spring graduation can be moved to another larger location.
Build something like Drake or UNI. Renovating the ARC to meet Valley standards will NOT work.
6000 seats.
Get corporate sponsorship.
Have concerts and conventions, thus include good accoustics.
I thought it would have made sense a few years ago for the city and Vu to team up on a multi purpose venue once the Star Plaza shut down.
Valparaiso is not a desirable place for concerts or conventions. I am all for including them as upside in a business plan - but they are not something that you can build a sound plan around.
You could get corporate sponsorships, but it is very doubtful that it would be significant. Again, it is Valparaiso not Des Moines (Drake) or a university with much larger enrollment (Northern Iowa).
Again, the pricetag for a new stadium is likely around $32M...if they built a 5000 seat stadium it would not go down much from the other price points in my previous post. If they found a major donor to fund it – great, build it. But if not, Valparaiso cannot realistically afford it. Remember, the number of high school graduates will decline going forward and will be much lower around 2026 (people stopped having babies during the recession). So revenue will decline either from fewer students or deeper discounts to stay competitive. Some may argue for the 'big bet', but losing that bet risks the sustainability of the university. Renovate the ARC in the best, reasonable possible manner.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on October 14, 2019, 07:57:58 PM
I thought it would have made sense a few years ago for the city and Vu to team up on a multi purpose venue once the Star Plaza shut down.
Sure, if it is on campus or right next to campus (within 5 blocks). The ideas mentioned, to my memory, involved building more towards the northern part of town. Valparaiso is better playing basketball in the ARC, as it is, then playing outside of walking distance for students.
Valpo is fundraising $250m, quit showing so much frugality and make a move.if you want to be in the Valley, prove it.
It is not that simple. They are raising $250M in endowment, which is structured to run in perpetuity and is not (to my knowledge) generally applied to capital. By raising $250M in endowment, any university generally plans to invest the money and always retain the principle. Thus, if you assume a 6% annual rate of return, Valpo would spend $15M per year from the endowed money. Additionally, while that is a lot of money in a given year, a substantial portion of endowment money is tied to specific uses (my guess is that the most common is scholarships). And if, by chance, Valpo can use some of the principle towards capital (which I doubt), they still cannot use money in ways different than what was agreed to with the donor.
Raising $250M in endowment is definitely the right thing to do, as it increases the sustainability of the university. This might create some sort of indirect effect to free up other funds for capital programs, but it is likely not as much as you might think.
(this is my general knowledge of endowments, including knowledge from some minimal interaction with Valpo. If someone has better knowledge of how Valpo structures endowments, please correct me)
Like many universities, get corporate sponsorship to offset costs. There are credible sponsors out there. Drake and Valpo are similarly sized universities - the excuses not to upgrade are too conservative. The ARC is the worst facility in the Valley, and this situation needs to be addressed.
Quote from: vu84v2 on October 14, 2019, 08:48:09 PM
It is not that simple. They are raising $250M in endowment, which is structured to run in perpetuity and is not (to my knowledge) generally applied to capital. By raising $250M in endowment, any university generally plans to invest the money and always retain the principle. Thus, if you assume a 6% annual rate of return, Valpo would spend $15M per year from the endowed money. Additionally, while that is a lot of money in a given year, a substantial portion of endowment money is tied to specific uses (my guess is that the most common is scholarships). And if, by chance, Valpo can use some of the principle towards capital (which I doubt), they still cannot use money in ways different than what was agreed to with the donor.
Raising $250M in endowment is definitely the right thing to do, as it increases the sustainability of the university. This might create some sort of indirect effect to free up other funds for capital programs, but it is likely not as much as you might think.
(this is my general knowledge of endowments, including knowledge from some minimal interaction with Valpo. If someone has better knowledge of how Valpo structures endowments, please correct me)
You are generally correct on the structure of endowment giving. The 250M goal does include things like The Day of Giving and that day provides donors with the ability to give to things like Athletics without it being dedicated to Athletic Endowment. One large donor did give 2M for basketball recruiting endowment but that is still tied to a specific plan.
Even if all the 250M was dedicated to endowment (most is), it still will take several and in some cases many years for Valpo to actually receive these funds. 84's comments about declining enrollment are spot on. We will be fighting for students, let alone good quality students. Schools with smaller endowments will by necessity have to "discount" their tuitions and, as St. Joes found out, that can't be sustained without the endowment to back those discounts.
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 14, 2019, 08:27:42 PM
Valpo is fundraising $250m, quit showing so much frugality and make a move.if you want to be in the Valley, prove it.
We are already in the MVC so that carrot dangling out front of the VU administration to "upgrade the ARC before the invite" has been taken out of the equation. IMO that was a significant carrot and I hope it doesn't diminish the desire to upgrade mid-term. I'd hope to see other things accomplished for the general student population first but if they desire this upgrade to happen and have a significant donor for it then, heck, why not.
Does anyone have concrete examples from our peer-Universities on what an upgrade looks like financially? Are we talking . . .
A) $3,000,000 to $5,000,000
B) $5,000,001 to $7,000,000
C) $7,000,001 to $10,000,000
D) over $10,000,000
Scenario 1: Includes A/C, permanent seating, sound system, numerous video screens, upgrade to training room, upgrade to weight room, reposition concessions, enhanced lighting.
Scenario 2: All of the above + building out the north wall (near football field) and expanding to allow for a symmetrical arena look. In this scenario I would not want the seating on the south wall to extend as high as it does. It's my opinion it needs to be about 2/3 as tall as it presently is.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 15, 2019, 10:39:24 AMQuote from: usc4valpo on October 14, 2019, 08:27:42 PMValpo is fundraising $250m, quit showing so much frugality and make a move.if you want to be in the Valley, prove it.
We are already in the MVC so that carrot dangling out front of the VU administration to "upgrade the ARC before the invite" has been taken out of the equation. IMO that was a significant carrot and I hope it doesn't diminish the desire to upgrade mid-term. I'd hope to see other things accomplished for the general student population first but if they desire this upgrade to happen and have a significant donor for it then, heck, why not. Does anyone have concrete examples from our peer-Universities on what an upgrade looks like financially? Are we talking . . . A) $3,000,000 to $5,000,000 B) $5,000,001 to $7,000,000 C) $7,000,001 to $10,000,000 D) over $10,000,000 Scenario 1: Includes A/C, permanent seating, sound system, numerous video screens, upgrade to training room, upgrade to weight room, reposition concessions, enhanced lighting. Scenario 2: All of the above + building out the north wall (near football field) and expanding to allow for a symmetrical arena look. In this scenario I would not want the seating on the south wall to extend as high as it does. It's my opinion it needs to be about 2/3 as tall as it presently is.
I think there are things that can be done for under $10,000,000, but the long list of things people on here want (myself included) would put us over that mark.
Here's one example from Richmond: https://richmondbizsense.com/2013/08/13/ur-arena-loses-seats-but-adds-some-swank/
$17,000,000 back in 2013. Maybe a bit larger in scale, but similar, but also in 2013 dollars. So I'd say a good estimate.
I do think the ARC has a good footprint to get 80% of the way there without a major overhaul (i.e. expanding north wall). The space where the Racquetball courts are could be used in a renovation and if the seats become permanent, all the space underneath them could be used for bathrooms, wider aisle, concessions, etc. Once you start tearing down the North wall it's a whole new conversation for costs. Ideally that would be in the cards but I'm not hopeful. And we need to remember, most of these changes will eliminate use of the ARC for inter-murals and other activities, so a field house also needs to be paid for.
The resolution, in typical Valpo fashion, will be to take a action way after when they should. Build or renovate something we can be proud of and stay ahead! Can we get some level of sponsorship to support this effort, as this is done at other facilities?
Valpo basketball has done a lot to enhance this university in many ways - it is time to give back.
Quote from: vuny98 on October 15, 2019, 04:04:14 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 15, 2019, 10:39:24 AMQuote from: usc4valpo on October 14, 2019, 08:27:42 PMValpo is fundraising $250m, quit showing so much frugality and make a move.if you want to be in the Valley, prove it.
We are already in the MVC so that carrot dangling out front of the VU administration to "upgrade the ARC before the invite" has been taken out of the equation. IMO that was a significant carrot and I hope it doesn't diminish the desire to upgrade mid-term. I'd hope to see other things accomplished for the general student population first but if they desire this upgrade to happen and have a significant donor for it then, heck, why not. Does anyone have concrete examples from our peer-Universities on what an upgrade looks like financially? Are we talking . . . A) $3,000,000 to $5,000,000 B) $5,000,001 to $7,000,000 C) $7,000,001 to $10,000,000 D) over $10,000,000 Scenario 1: Includes A/C, permanent seating, sound system, numerous video screens, upgrade to training room, upgrade to weight room, reposition concessions, enhanced lighting. Scenario 2: All of the above + building out the north wall (near football field) and expanding to allow for a symmetrical arena look. In this scenario I would not want the seating on the south wall to extend as high as it does. It's my opinion it needs to be about 2/3 as tall as it presently is.
I think there are things that can be done for under $10,000,000, but the long list of things people on here want (myself included) would put us over that mark.
Here's one example from Richmond: https://richmondbizsense.com/2013/08/13/ur-arena-loses-seats-but-adds-some-swank/
$17,000,000 back in 2013. Maybe a bit larger in scale, but similar, but also in 2013 dollars. So I'd say a good estimate.
I do think the ARC has a good footprint to get 80% of the way there without a major overhaul (i.e. expanding north wall). The space where the Racquetball courts are could be used in a renovation and if the seats become permanent, all the space underneath them could be used for bathrooms, wider aisle, concessions, etc. Once you start tearing down the North wall it's a whole new conversation for costs. Ideally that would be in the cards but I'm not hopeful. And we need to remember, most of these changes will eliminate use of the ARC for inter-murals and other activities, so a field house also needs to be paid for.
That last comment in bold says it all. Without the planned field house or rec building or whatever they want to call it, the arena cannot possibly be renovated to a permanent arena. Valpo is never going to throw $20-30 million at that ever. It is the "other activities" that will suffer most (along with, of course, intramurals) if the seating on the main floor is made permanent. Those other activities, btw, are all other outdoor varsity sports that require gym time in the winter months. That includes football, soccer, baseball, softball and T&F. They are already scheduling off-season practices in the ARC at 5am and 6am as well as late at night to get floor time for drills and conditioning. We complain about the non-revenue sports not showing well in the MVC now. Reducing the usable footprint of the main floor to the size of a basketball court is certain to reduce their competitiveness even further.
MLB has said that a feasibility study is in the works. While all of our wishful thinking and ideas are fun, it'll be that study that determines to what degree, in what fashion and what timetable anything will be done. I am not holding my breath for anything beyond bare necessities (Sound, AC, and maybe video boards) at this time. Anything else would require in-depth planning and significant construction expense.
I am very concerned about Valpo's cash flow and how we can compete in the MVC in basketball as well as other sports.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 16, 2019, 09:25:25 AM
Quote from: vuny98 on October 15, 2019, 04:04:14 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on October 15, 2019, 10:39:24 AMQuote from: usc4valpo on October 14, 2019, 08:27:42 PMValpo is fundraising $250m, quit showing so much frugality and make a move.if you want to be in the Valley, prove it.
We are already in the MVC so that carrot dangling out front of the VU administration to "upgrade the ARC before the invite" has been taken out of the equation. IMO that was a significant carrot and I hope it doesn't diminish the desire to upgrade mid-term. I'd hope to see other things accomplished for the general student population first but if they desire this upgrade to happen and have a significant donor for it then, heck, why not. Does anyone have concrete examples from our peer-Universities on what an upgrade looks like financially? Are we talking . . . A) $3,000,000 to $5,000,000 B) $5,000,001 to $7,000,000 C) $7,000,001 to $10,000,000 D) over $10,000,000 Scenario 1: Includes A/C, permanent seating, sound system, numerous video screens, upgrade to training room, upgrade to weight room, reposition concessions, enhanced lighting. Scenario 2: All of the above + building out the north wall (near football field) and expanding to allow for a symmetrical arena look. In this scenario I would not want the seating on the south wall to extend as high as it does. It's my opinion it needs to be about 2/3 as tall as it presently is.
I think there are things that can be done for under $10,000,000, but the long list of things people on here want (myself included) would put us over that mark.
Here's one example from Richmond: https://richmondbizsense.com/2013/08/13/ur-arena-loses-seats-but-adds-some-swank/
$17,000,000 back in 2013. Maybe a bit larger in scale, but similar, but also in 2013 dollars. So I'd say a good estimate.
I do think the ARC has a good footprint to get 80% of the way there without a major overhaul (i.e. expanding north wall). The space where the Racquetball courts are could be used in a renovation and if the seats become permanent, all the space underneath them could be used for bathrooms, wider aisle, concessions, etc. Once you start tearing down the North wall it's a whole new conversation for costs. Ideally that would be in the cards but I'm not hopeful. And we need to remember, most of these changes will eliminate use of the ARC for inter-murals and other activities, so a field house also needs to be paid for.
That last comment in bold says it all. Without the planned field house or rec building or whatever they want to call it, the arena cannot possibly be renovated to a permanent arena. Valpo is never going to throw $20-30 million at that ever. It is the "other activities" that will suffer most (along with, of course, intramurals) if the seating on the main floor is made permanent. Those other activities, btw, are all other outdoor varsity sports that require gym time in the winter months. That includes football, soccer, baseball, softball and T&F. They are already scheduling off-season practices in the ARC at 5am and 6am as well as late at night to get floor time for drills and conditioning. We complain about the non-revenue sports not showing well in the MVC now. Reducing the usable footprint of the main floor to the size of a basketball court is certain to reduce their competitiveness even further.
MLB has said that a feasibility study is in the works. While all of our wishful thinking and ideas are fun, it'll be that study that determines to what degree, in what fashion and what timetable anything will be done. I am not holding my breath for anything beyond bare necessities (Sound, AC, and maybe video boards) at this time. Anything else would require in-depth planning and significant construction expense.
That's why I am not so keen on this renovation before other key items (included is a student rec center and A/C in all dorms if not already done). After all, this is a University with 3,500+ other students unrelated to Valpo Mens Basketball. I have the same desire to see this team succeed in the new conference but not at the expense of a functioning budget and practice space of other VU athletics programs. I posted that original email because it is clear that minor/major renovation is being actively discussed and my little vote isn't going to change things.
Either way, student activities for the cold months (which happens to be much or most of the year in the midwest while school is in session) is far more important than some ARC upgrade to me.
P.S. If they make the arena permanent seating, I'm guessing they also get rid of the indoor track and side gym up there (which is where the track team practices for indoor season). So I am also not a fan of that decision, being a former T&F athlete at VU. I hope people far more creative than us are able to find a proper balance if indeed something is being done as some suspect.
Appreciate the sentiment, FG, but it was my impression the massive construction binge over the past decade or so was to benefit the other 3,500 students.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on October 16, 2019, 10:47:16 AM
Appreciate the sentiment, FG, but it was my impression the massive construction binge over the past decade or so was to benefit the other 3,500 students.
Undoubtedly it was. Sadly though I think Harre "may" have waisted the 1990s and early 2000s not doing any of the upgrades so we are behind the 8-ball in that regard. There is certainly a balance to be struck and I respect your sentiment.
Drake University receives $2 Million dollar donation to upgrade Knapp Center and $1 Million for the men's Basketball program.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/drake/2019/10/22/drake-university-donation-improve-knapp-center-help-rural-americans/4061716002/
"We will renovate the Knapp Center we will enhance the fan experience we will improve our home court advantage"
Possible renovations would be to replace current seating with more intimate bowl shaped arena seating, creating hospitality spaces and improving the sound system.
Illinois State is upgrading too...
http://mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5411
Get busy Valpo....
https://twitter.com/valpo_hoops/status/1193965752287715328?s=21
https://twitter.com/joshkleinrules/status/1193604398670319617?s=21
One could say that The University has acted in good faith but it's time for the city to return a favor. Allow parking on the streets again or be very friendly to the university when it comes to zoning or contribute $ to resolve the problem.
The ARC was there before most (if not all) people moved into those houses...
I was listening to the radio broadcast of the Illinois at Grand Canyon game in the car the other night. GCU has a deafening extended pregame extravaganza that works the fans into a frenzy, the likes of which the IL broadcasters said they had never seen before. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVYDSnBMQoo
The IL guys said it was the best pregame atmosphere they had ever seen. Complete with a live rock band. Goes to show what can be created when people think outside the box.
That is ridiculously amazing!!!!!
And only 7,500 people!
Quote from: wh on November 11, 2019, 04:24:13 PM
I was listening to the radio broadcast of the Illinois at Grand Canyon game in the car the other night. GCU has a deafening extended pregame extravaganza that works the fans into a frenzy, the likes of which the IL broadcasters said they had never seen before. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVYDSnBMQoo
The IL guys said it was the best pregame atmosphere they had ever seen. Complete with a live rock band. Goes to show what can be created when people think outside the box.
Been there for two games and a show and the atmosphere was top notch!!!
Much younger crowd than we get ;)
Quote from: valpotx on November 12, 2019, 03:16:37 AM
Much younger crowd than we get ;)
Those are almost all students. If you look up their seating chart, one whole sideline and basically both baselines a good 25 rows up are completely reserved for student seating.
Another MVC school is upgrading its facilities and it is a private institution -- DRAKE. The've already committed to upgrading their BB arena, and now they are adding a new stadium to their facilities portfolio. Drake is working in conjunction with the City of Des Moines to build a 4,000 seat multi-purpose outdoor sports stadium on the Drake campus next to their BB practice facility. It will be the new home of Drake soccer and the home of Des Moines Public Schools football.
The key element of this project, in my mind, is something that would be invaluable to Valpo given the stress placed on the ARC for useable time for all sports teams as well as student usage. The new Drake/CDM facility would be built to allow for a bubble to be erected during the winter months to allow for year-round usage.
Climbing back onto my well-worn soapbox, Valpo is nowhere near building that dreamed about Rec Center/Fieldhouse that appears in the 30-year Master Plan. That's decades away if at all. In the meantime, the ARC needs desperately to be upgraded. But it can't be done "supposedly" until an alternate facility is built (see above) and so Valpo has placed itself in a Catch-22 situation. This is one way out of that conundrum. USC4Valpo probably has even more insight into this.
Here is the link to the article that describes it:
https://news.drake.edu/2019/11/13/dmps-drake-partner-to-develop-new-community-stadium/
Here (hopefully) is the YouTube video showing what it will look like:
<iframe width="875" height="492" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AcmfVKHMyL8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 14, 2019, 12:49:39 PM
Another MVC school is upgrading its facilities and it is a private institution -- DRAKE. The've already committed to upgrading their BB arena, and now they are adding a new stadium to their facilities portfolio. Drake is working in conjunction with the City of Des Moines to build a 4,000 seat multi-purpose outdoor sports stadium on the Drake campus next to their BB practice facility. It will be the new home of Drake soccer and the home of Des Moines Public Schools football.
The key element of this project, in my mind, is something that would be invaluable to Valpo given the stress placed on the ARC for useable time for all sports teams as well as student usage. The new Drake/CDM facility would be built to allow for a bubble to be erected during the winter months to allow for year-round usage.
Climbing back onto my well-worn soapbox, Valpo is nowhere near building that dreamed about Rec Center/Fieldhouse that appears in the 30-year Master Plan. That's decades away if at all. In the meantime, the ARC needs desperately to be upgraded. But it can't be done "supposedly" until an alternate facility is built (see above) and so Valpo has placed itself in a Catch-22 situation. This is one way out of that conundrum. USC4Valpo probably has even more insight into this.
Here is the link to the article that describes it:
https://news.drake.edu/2019/11/13/dmps-drake-partner-to-develop-new-community-stadium/
Here (hopefully) is the YouTube video showing what it will look like:
Ideas like this are, at a minimum, innovative and can lead to great solutions...but I would caution that there is a lot of compromise required when partnering with another group who would use the stadium.
Consider three questions in relationship to doing this at Valpo:
1. If you are Valpo, what percentage of time would you be willing to give to the municipal entity for use of the venue? If not 50% (and that includes 50% of prime time), I would see it being questionable that the municipality would agree - which makes this very questionable for indoor usage, when Valoo has many athletic team and student activities that will want access.
2. If you are the town, are you going to agree to having the facility on the university campus?
3. If you are a taxpayer, are you gong to be willing to fund something that would have significant use by the university.
Don't get me wrong, ideas like this are needed. But from looking at the Des Moines proposal, I am not even sure that this will actually happen in Des Moines (see reason 3).
BTW, I share to some extent the concern over partnering with the city. I think I've heard of previous attempts at that sort of thing (a joint natatorium, maybe) and they didn't come to fruition. I posted the links and the idea more to support just VU building a less-than- Fieldhouse solution along the same architectural lines (not the same capacity — maybe 1,000-1,500 seats) and all-seasons approach to allow for the needed ARC upgrade.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 14, 2019, 03:08:18 PM
BTW, I share to some extent the concern over partnering with the city. I think I've heard of previous attempts at that sort of thing (a joint natatorium, maybe) and they didn't come to fruition. I posted the links and the idea more to support just VU building a less-than- Fieldhouse solution along the same architectural lines not the same capacity — maybe 1,000-1,500 seats) and all-seasons approach to allow for the needed ARC upgrade.
It has probably been 18 months ago, but I was told that this Aquatic Center project was something that the University would be able to use. Did this not happen? Has this been built?
https://www.valpo.k12.in.us/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=1644405&type=d&pREC_ID=1786738 (https://www.valpo.k12.in.us/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=1644405&type=d&pREC_ID=1786738)
QuoteValparaiso Aquatic Center is committed to enriching Valparaiso Community Schools and our local community by providing unparalleled and inclusive educational, recreational, and fitness programs, services, and facilities to promote physical, social, and emotional health and wellness through exposure and opportunity.
Quote from: wh on November 11, 2019, 04:24:13 PM
I was listening to the radio broadcast of the Illinois at Grand Canyon game in the car the other night. GCU has a deafening extended pregame extravaganza that works the fans into a frenzy, the likes of which the IL broadcasters said they had never seen before. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVYDSnBMQoo
The IL guys said it was the best pregame atmosphere they had ever seen. Complete with a live rock band. Goes to show what can be created when people think outside the box.
You need a student section to start with. We don't get that many in three games total.
20,000 enrollment helps.
I can't say I disagree. I want to focus less on the mascot thing and more of the Duquesne Arena remodel. It's Dimensionally is very similar to the ARC.
Possibly a blue print but as always. Who is going to pay for the renovation is the issue.
https://twitter.com/yinzerstillinoh/status/1355567796684529666?s=21
Drake announced today renovation fundraising and plans to upgrade the Knapp Center. Hope President Padilla
and the BOD noticed, and can convince some wealthy Valpo alums to donate to an ARC reno sooner rather than later. I know we have other needs as well...but Valpo Athletics is able to create valuable name recognition among other things for the university.
#GoValpo #MVC
https://godrakebulldogs.com/news/2021/10/18/drake-athletics-schickler-challenge-jumpstarts-knapp-center-renovation-project-fundraising.aspx
Figure it was time for a facilities post. It's been awhile since we had one. [emoji3]
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
I posted this in the General Valpo section but really think this could lead to big changes for the campus and in particular, the basketball facilities.
Valpo has launched a development plan for 130 acres of land adjacent to the University and in part, the old campus property. It talks about unlocking the tremendous value in the land portfolio. Padilla has said that the ARC is a priority for improvement/redevelopment and this could be where the money could come from. Maybe just dreaming but it really seems to be a potential answer.
https://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/avro-development-announces-vitalize-valpo-a-130-acre-master-development-initiative-in-valparaiso-in
Not to be a glass half empty guy, but in four months this thread topic will be a decade old. On the plus side, the Valley should be very skeptical about assurances made before admitting UMKC.
I have heard that there is two major donors to upgrade or build a new facility to replace the ARC. What they are waiting on is additional donations to support the ongoing operations of a new facility. We can hope!
Some of my favorite stadiums are smaller, focusing on game day experience and less on capacity.
Examples:
Hawkins Arena -- Mercer University
UPMC Cooper Fieldhouse -- Duquesne
UPMC Events Center -- Robert Morris University
Hagan Arena -- St. Joe's
Hynes Athletic Center (more recent renovations) -- Iona
I am hopeful we can accomplish something similar. I was in the ARC a few weeks ago and I did not hate the court.
If they just wanted to renovate I wouldn't be totally against that (although the remiaing structure of the ARC / Hilltop is pretty drab). Fixing the lighting and enclosing a lower bowl would go a long way I think. Something similar to Carnesseca arena at St. John's for an enclosed lower bowl.
Anyone know what's the deal with the score board?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on December 08, 2021, 06:20:17 PM
Anyone know what's the deal with the score board?
Are you referring to the center scoreboard, south side that's been half on/half off for the past 2 or 3 games, or are there other issues I haven't noticed - in addition to the perpetually broken sound system. It's one thing to have the smallest house in the neighborhood; it's another to have the smallest and most run down house in the neighborhood. I'm embarrassed for the university and the athletic department.
Did the scoreboard break when we got over 100 points?
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 08, 2021, 07:15:24 PM
Did the scoreboard break when we got over 100 points?
No, it rolled over to '01' without a hitch. ;)
Have to say I very much like the shield of character on the court. Honestly looks better on TV.
I miss the old days when our branding was done by professionals. They better leave the shield and not put that horrendous lantern VU in house team made. That thing was made in PowerPoint.
Non-D1 schools putting our facilities to shame...
We've all been hard on Lottich's (lack of) coaching abilities and rightfully so, but I give the guy credit that he's recruited at a level he has with our facilities being negative selling point of the program and school. Need to give him credit there.
https://twitter.com/ajcook_1/status/1483264327901716481?s=21
It'd be nice if Valpo could stop being such a punchline in its own conference.
https://twitter.com/iammattruss/status/1636917628957519872?s=46&t=cNk7taMAYtxNl1Q0_O79Gw
Our favorite topic has come back to life! We need to sell more art...
They serve nachos!!!!
FYI EDIT: Name - the Rothman Center. Dedicated - 1987. Newest update - converted some seating to 500 chair-backs. Capacity - just under 3,000. Parking - 2,000 cars. .
So that gym is better than ours????????????? Why? Because it it newer???? If we think our facilities are poor(which they are), look at some of the "minor" schools facilities in the Big East Conference, A -10 and A Sun.
A Little More Context
NEC D-I Basketball Conference arena seating capacities.
Central CT - 2600
FDU - <3000
Long Island U - 2500
Merrimack - 1500
Sacred Heart - 2062
St. Francis Brooklyn - 1200 (but also occasionally rents the Barkley Center - 18000)
Stonehill - 1560
St. Francis (PA) - 3500
Wagner College - 2100
Conference average seating capacity = 2211 per gym ( and that's what they are.). Most Indiana HS gyms are bigger by a factor.
Yet these schools are D-I and have D-I budgets. But it is clear from the capacities that expenses must outweigh revenue. A few of these schools also play D-I hockey and some have on-campus rinks. CCSU, SHU, Stonehill, Merrimack, SFU(PA), Wagner play Football in stadiums with capacities close to or smaller than Brown Field.
We lament any home game with fewer than 2,000 butts in the seats. Some NEC schools would be ecstatic to see 2000 and most seldom do. Ever. Concerns on our board over athletic budget cite the need for returning attendance figures to Drew era numbers. One NEC school comes close but none of the rest even has a capacity to fit the Drew Era home attendance figures, let alone hold some of the crowds we've had for Butler, FSU, St. Mary's, HL championships, etc., that topped 4,000.
64 - the ARC is a generic dump and it doesn't even have any character, unlike Fordham or other schools.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2023, 02:59:28 PM
64 - the ARC is a generic dump and it doesn't even have any character, unlike Fordham or other schools.
Complete dumpster...lacrosse high school which holds maybe 1000 people and from the 1800s has way more character.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: truth219 on March 18, 2023, 04:56:33 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2023, 02:59:28 PM
64 - the ARC is a generic dump and it doesn't even have any character, unlike Fordham or other schools.
Complete dumpster...lacrosse high school which holds maybe 1000 people and from the 1800s has way more character.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sadly, there will no longer be opportunities to see high school games at the LaCrosse gym as the district is consolidating its schools in Wanatah.
Granted there are some (actually very few) old, iconic college basketball arenas that can be described as having character. And many times the term "character" is a euphemism for "old and out-dated," but because they are the homes to long-time successful programs, they get that pass. The Palestra in Philly, Cameron on the Duke campus, Hinkle at the school down south fall into that category IMHO. However, I would not die on a hill fighting to get people to acknowledge Fordham's gym had that kind of character once people got inside.
Rose Hill Gymnasium on the Fordham campus was built in 1925 and is the oldest on-campus arena in NCAA D-I. Although a beautiful architectural site (very "campus gothic" if you get my drift) from the outside, for years in the 1990s to the early 2000s it was a standing joke anywhere east of the Mississippi. Yeah, it was tough to play there cuz it was an "old, smelly gym" but it also had all bleachers and minimal restrooms ( apparently people in ll1925 had huge bladders) and minimal concession space. But Fordham did the right thing in the 2010s and beyond. They replaced bleachers with chair-back seating, added two big video scoreboards, replaced the playing floor, and made it a dedicated arena of 3,500, rather than multi-purpose, etc. Inside, it is now modern. Character now only applies to the stone exterior.
What I am getting at is that the ARC arena is NOT a dump. It is merely outdated, built in the same era as Fairliegh Dickinson's facility. But it has great modernization potential.
Using my best Rod Serling voice: "Imagine, if you will......... "
..........new, permanent chair-backs on three sides of the court replacing: 1) the present collapsible chair-backs, 2) the bleachers opposite and 3) a new chair-back installation opposite the student bleachers. Modernized student bleachers to complement the "bowl" look. Finally, replace the upper level wood bleachers with collapsible chair-backs in the same color pattern as the bowl. Capacity impact? Instead of 5,000 claimed seating, maybe 4,500 or as low as 4,000 actual. But, hey..... still very good and proportional.
Of course, four other improvements would be needed to transform the arena into an up-to-date facility: AC, added restrooms, added (very important) concession areas and a new top grade audio system.
..........and you have reached [eerie music] ..................The Beacon Zone.
Seriously, compare a mostly cosmetic upgrade with a many multi-million dollar construction project for a brand new arena for a small university with a lot of other financial priorities. But wait. What about lost interior space as a result of such an update? Well, how about a nice but modest, functionally designed building with offices, and training and locker facilities for many of the non—revenue sports that is connected to an inflatable "field house" on the Porter land. Think baseball, softball, T&F, WSO working out of there instead of sharing ARC space.
IMHO, this is a responsible and proportional response to the facilities issue in keeping with a private MVC university with a smaller alumni base, a smaller enrollment, no state or municipal assistance and other callings besides just athletics. The key, again in my opinion, is proportional. And the advantage is that such a plan (at least the arena upgrade) can be accomplished inside of 12 calendar months vs. years. It would probably place a burden on other non-revenue sports while the ancillary facility is built (or maybe not) but that is a price worth paying as a long-term investment to ensure that the flagship remains afloat.
I have the same opinion as #62.
I believe the ARC is salvageable. It needs a lot of work, but I believe the work required to make it acceptable for the MVC and for the Universitys needs would be more cost effective than a new facility.
I think a horshoe bowl of collapsible chair backs on the main floor would be great. I would actually leave the student section as is (it was more fun to stand anyways during the games). I think a small riser section or collapsible stage for the pepband at the corner entrance would also be nice. The same collapsible chair backs for the upper searing would be great as well.
Lights and audio need to be updated. However the scoreboard looks pretty nice.
I would add that the wall behind the existing chairbacks could be opened up to bring in some natural light. I think small boxes could also be installed behind the existing chair backs for handicapped accessibility as well as for local businesses / events.
See Mercer's basketball stadium for a great example of how good this could look.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sprint-us-revc&q=Hawkins+Arena&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLUz9U3sMwxNDN5xGjCLfDyxz1hKe1Ja05eY1Tl4grOyC93zSvJLKkUEudig7J4pbi5ELp4FrHyeiSWZ2fmFSs4FqXmJQIAQfGzFlQAAAA&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjyv82C-ub9AhXjj4kEHTeLCC4Q0pQJegQICRAB&biw=384&bih=724&dpr=2.81#imgrc=RCF_D7xXlkUQPM&lnspr=W10=
I feel that this is more affordable than a new facility and would meet our needs.
Yes, there are numerous options, and, gut feel, they would be less expensive than a new arena that leaves the ARC as is - and almost obsolete. Think about concerts on the ARC floor with everyone in chair-backs or chairs. Hell, Gonzaga upgraded their facilities and it has added to their national notoriety. The Loyola upgrade got them into the MVC. We actually have decent MVC-level game facilities in SB, T&F, Baseball, Tennis, & Golf. Swimming uses a great community facility. Brown Field could use an upgrade to the press box and home stands, but we are ok at present.
My thought is that a major proportional upgrade (whatever that entails) to the arena coupled with a decent, additional athletic building to support other sports would be a much more cost-effective use of resources and gifts and would raise all sports.
My only problem with this is where do you put the giant blow-up light house 🙄 with the beacon light that indicates a Valpo win?
And to be clear on that last note, that was heavy sarcasm.
Mercer University's Hawkins Arena Floor plan. The ARC could adopt a similar lower horshoe bowl with small sky boxes behind the existing chairback sections.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sprint-us-revc&q=Hawkins+Arena&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLUz9U3sMwxNDN5xGjCLfDyxz1hKe1Ja05eY1Tl4grOyC93zSvJLKkUEudig7J4pbi5ELp4FrHyeiSWZ2fmFSs4FqXmJQIAQfGzFlQAAAA&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjyv82C-ub9AhXjj4kEHTeLCC4Q0pQJegQICRAB&biw=384&bih=724&dpr=2.81#imgrc=Zwf2mosaRXBe9M
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 18, 2023, 05:10:00 PMSadly, there will no longer be opportunities to see high school games at the LaCrosse gym as the district is consolidating its schools in Wanatah.
New name?
WanaCrosse?
LaCrotah?
Crosstah?
South LaPorte? Would be confusing.
Cass-Dewey?
Dewey-Cass?
US421 HS?
North Kankakee HS? Confusing?
Manaea HS?
Somoan HS
As a few of you may have pointed out, the problem with renovation to permanent, non-retractable seating is that this only makes the ARC's availability for other students a real problem. Remember that when the seats are backed up there remains two basketball floors used extensively for intramural and other teams.
I too believe the ARC can be renovated but as '62 has pointed out, it would need to be done while also adding an additional facility lot an inflatable, multipurpose structure.
Absolutely 72. Any ARC arena redo must be paired with a new (but much less expensive than an arena) ancillary facility.
And... in keeping with Padilla's desire to upgrade the dorms, and increase attractiveness for potential enrollees, also including in the ancillary athletics building a new fitness facility open to all students along with student locker space and showers would add attractive campus amenities kids are looking for.
My thought is that the combination of ARC renovation and ancillary athletic/fitness facility would be a fraction of a new arena and provide a better ROI with respect to addressing the entire campus population.
For those of you who are still not accepting the depth of the grave situation facing higher education these days, there have been and will continue to be very difficult choices to be made. So, while we are complaining about our facilities and the lack of action on a buyout for our basketball coach, an alternative is St. Francis College in Brooklyn who is eliminating all Division 1 sports at the end of this semester. Other schools in the Northeast Conference didn't see it coming. This is how wh has suggested to lead. Those who have the knowledge and ability to do something about it should take decisive action and let the chips fall where they may.
D1 sports are changing drastically where universities are goingt o have to make these kind of decisions based on finances.
Quote from: valpo tundra on March 20, 2023, 05:47:37 PM
For those of you who are still not accepting the depth of the grave situation facing higher education these days, there have been and will continue to be very difficult choices to be made. So, while we are complaining about our facilities and the lack of action on a buyout for our basketball coach, an alternative is St. Francis College in Brooklyn who is eliminating all Division 1 sports at the end of this semester. Other schools in the Northeast Conference didn't see it coming. This is how wh has suggested to lead. Those who have the knowledge and ability to do something about it should take decisive action and let the chips fall where they may.
SFU (NY) is (was?) a member of the Northeast Conference along with Fairleigh Dickinson. Totally urban "campus 🙄" with little in the way of typically expected ambiance. Amazed they stuck with athletics at any level for this long.
But the point is relevant. The parents are beginning to devour the children.
Nearer to home, a former football opponent Trinity International University is closing their classroom and moving all undergraduate classes online.
From Christianity today website
TIU Announces Plans to Move Undergrad Program Online
"The Deerfield, Illinois, institution—which includes a graduate school and law school in addition to an influential evangelical seminary, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (TEDS)—will continue to offer in-person education through its divinity school in Illinois and law school in California.
TIU's media release characterized the discontinuation of its residential undergraduate program as a "transformational strategy" that will "position the University for long-term growth, industry leadership, and continued academic excellence."
Like higher education institutions across the country, TIU–and its seminary–have seen consistent enrollment declines over the last 20 years. As of last fall, the school had 356 full-time undergrad students on campus.
Friday's announcement comes almost a year after TEDS cut nearly $1 million in spending since the number of full-time students at the evangelical seminary dropped 44 percent in 20 years. The cut in spending involved the elimination of at least seven faculty positions. At the time, TIU said that budget reduction was the first part of a three-phase process of "creating efficiencies."
I saw the St. Francis announcement, too, and immediately thought of conversations on this board.
FWIW, St. Francis has an endowment of approx. $40 million, well short of VU's. It is a local liberal arts college with an undergraduate enrollment of about 2,600. So we needn't look at St. Francis and fear that schools like VU are next to shutter their athletic programs.
Same with Trinity. Not the same type of school, not as solid a reputation.
That said, it's possible that these are the early signs of a broader trend of schools simply shutting down their athletic programs if they are not sustainable. In the case of St. Francis, they didn't bother dropping down to D2, D3, or NAIA. They just said that's it.
St. Francis was founded the same year as Valpo and their athletics were a charter member of the NCAA with men's basketball starting in 1896. They added men's volleyball and women's soccer only in 2019. The decision to cancel all 19 Division 1 sports was a result of "increased operating expenses, flattening revenue streams, and plateauing enrollment due in part to a shrinking pool of high school students in the aftermath of COVID."
Quote from: David81 on March 20, 2023, 11:25:49 PMI saw the St. Francis announcement, too, and immediately thought of conversations on this board. FWIW, St. Francis has an endowment of approx. $40 million, well short of VU's. It is a local liberal arts college with an undergraduate enrollment of about 2,600. So we needn't look at St. Francis and fear that schools like VU are next to shutter their athletic programs. Same with Trinity. Not the same type of school, not as solid a reputation. That said, it's possible that these are the early signs of a broader trend of schools simply shutting down their athletic programs if they are not sustainable. In the case of St. Francis, they didn't bother dropping down to D2, D3, or NAIA. They just said that's it.
Part of the reason that they dropped the entire program was facility related. Their situation was far worse than Valpo's. I think they sold the building their gym, which I've played in a few times, was housed and they'd have to further rent facilities for all sports.
Didn't Norm Van Lier play at St. Francis?
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 21, 2023, 01:24:48 PM
Didn't Norm Van Lier play at St. Francis?
Wrong SFU. He played for SFU (PA). And geez aren't there a lot of St. Francis colleges and universities.
thanks 62.
BTW - does Valpo toss tshirts at games, which really get fans go crazy. I would hope so. If not, why?
Yeah they do that pretty regularly. They also have had some fun giveaways at the door as well.
Saint Francis College (as opposed to St Francis University) has a long history in college basketball but they really haven't had any notable pros and have never made the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 21, 2023, 01:31:20 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 21, 2023, 01:24:48 PM
Didn't Norm Van Lier play at St. Francis?
Wrong SFU. He played for SFU (PA). And geez aren't there a lot of St. Francis colleges and universities.
St. Francis was very popular after he drove all those snakes out of that airplane. 😉
..... or do I have my saints & snakes mixed up?
That was St. Patrick and you know what? There were never any snakes in Ireland to begin with. Fake news! Well spun by the church at the time. Heh, heh.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 21, 2023, 07:12:46 PM
That was St. Patrick and you know what? There were never any snakes in Ireland to begin with. Fake news! Well spun by the church at the time. Heh, heh.
You did see my 😉? ;D
Of course 😜
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 21, 2023, 01:24:48 PM
Didn't Norm Van Lier play at St. Francis?
Yes, right after he drove the snakes out of Jerry Sloan's locker & the Bulls locker room.
Valpo posted a link to donate to an "ARC Enchancement Project" with a goal of 12,000 dollars.
https://bit.ly/3UnoSTh
It says the following:
GOAL
The ARC is our home and a place that is very important to the success of our program. Our goal is to continue to make improvements both big and small to the arena, to improve the student-athlete experience and to enhance the game day environment for our fans. This is important as we look to create a true home court advantage. This year, your support will go towards new branding and technology in the ARC.
$12,000 for Branding and Technology:
Perhaps a $1,000 will now go towards each member of the pep band ;)
Maybe it's to buy out the contracts of those two dogs.
4throwfan, that might be the best (and funniest post) ever on this board. Hilarious
I hope the money raised will not go for dog food !
Quote from: vok22 on April 11, 2023, 10:51:37 AM
Valpo posted a link to donate to an "ARC Enchancement Project" with a goal of 12,000 dollars.
https://bit.ly/3UnoSTh
It says the following:
GOAL
The ARC is our home and a place that is very important to the success of our program. Our goal is to continue to make improvements both big and small to the arena, to improve the student-athlete experience and to enhance the game day environment for our fans. This is important as we look to create a true home court advantage. This year, your support will go towards new branding and technology in the ARC.
This is great and all, but it's going to take a little bit more than $12,000 to get the ARC to respectability.
I don't understand what 12,000 dollars is going to do. Fix half of the speaker system? It is also concerning they need to start a fundraising campaign for 12000 dollars.
Apparently the Valpo basketball fans aren't very enthusiastic about the $12,000 being asked for. At the present, of all 14 athletic team fund raisers, the ARC fund is second last place with $770 committed, while teams like bowling are drawing more money! And yes, I have made my investments.
At present, the whole Day of Giving is headed for a disastrous performance, with a total of $153,300 in the bank out of a goal of $1,100,000.
Branding?
We had a brand. It was a Crusader.
For all the justified complaining on this board about Valpo's outdated basketball facilities, there appears to be very weak support in raising the $12,000 crowdfunding request for ARC basketball facilitiy improvements. What gives?
https://twitter.com/valpobasketball/status/1645864290551844888?s=46&t=cNk7taMAYtxNl1Q0_O79Gw
Time for everyone to put their money where their mouth is.
Valpo Basketball is ONLY at 9% on a goal of $12K while the swim team had a goal of $10K and is already at 50% of their goal!
I can see some potential problems with how the basketball/ARC donation requests are structured:
1. Roger Powell is a great hire and there is a really good chance that he will do a great job. But performance, not expectation, is more likely to drive donations. Furthermore, it is a general request and many people like to give to specific things.
2. $12,000 for the ARC is a small fraction of what is needed to really renovate the ARC. Crowdfunding is the wrong method for ARC improvements.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 11, 2023, 03:57:06 PM
I can see some potential problems with how the basketball/ARC donation requests are structured:
1. Roger Powell is a great hire and there is a really good chance that he will do a great job. But performance, not expectation, is more likely to drive donations. Furthermore, it is a general request and many people like to give to specific things.
2. $12,000 for the ARC is a small fraction of what is needed to really renovate the ARC. Crowdfunding is the wrong method for ARC improvements.
Valid points, but additionally our fanbase is small and I think there are a lot of very passionate Valpo fans who love the idea of upgrades and a new arena, but don't want to be the ones to fork out the money.
Let's be real, a lot of people on this board want something but don't want to commit anything financially, not even $50.
So the question, I'd pose to the group, is what would it take for you to make a donation to ARC renovations or a new arena fund? And let's be honest and not lie to ourselves. Are you flat out just unwilling or unable to make a donation at this time? I understand, being unable to financially, but it's pretty easy to find things we frivolously spend money on, reoccurring subscriptions we never use, lottery tickets, random junk at the store you know you don't need but buy anyways. A lot of people on this board could donate but have made the choice not to, for whatever reason. If you are a frequent Visitor to this message board, you obviously have a passion for Valpo Basketball. My question to you, is your frivolous spending (we all do it sometimes) worth more than the joy, Valpo Basketball brings you?
Even if they announced a new arena tomorrow it would probably take 3-5 years. Renovations for that amount probably equal some new paint and curtains or maybe a new pa system. Things that should happen whether a full shebang happens later or not.
Let's face it. This group likes to talk a lot but won't do anything themselves to try and really help.
It just wants a mega donor to waltz in and give all the money needed. Valpo doesn't have that mega donor. You need to open up those creaky old wallets! At least to get a start and show a large donor that the fans appreciate what they would be giving large funds to help the MBB team.
I wonder what Coach Powell would think.
Quote from: valpo64 on April 11, 2023, 12:50:40 PM
I hope the money raised will not go for dog food !
Valpo raises money for Alpo.
Quote from: Just Sayin on April 11, 2023, 07:05:48 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on April 11, 2023, 12:50:40 PM
I hope the money raised will not go for dog food !
Valpo raises money for Alpo.
Alpo is made here https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nestle+Purina+PetCare+Company/@38.6189179,-90.2007466,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x87d8b30fab04219d:0x2d4dc0d8177b07bd!8m2!3d38.6189179!4d-90.1985526!16s%2Fg%2F1tg2l62r (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Nestle+Purina+PetCare+Company/@38.6189179,-90.2007466,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x87d8b30fab04219d:0x2d4dc0d8177b07bd!8m2!3d38.6189179!4d-90.1985526!16s%2Fg%2F1tg2l62r)
Missouri Valley Conferences headquarters are here Missouri Valley Conference to Enterprise Center - Google Maps (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Missouri+Valley+Conference,+Chouteau+Avenue,+St.+Louis,+MO/Nestle+Purina+PetCare+Company,+801+Chouteau+Ave,+St.+Louis,+MO+63102/Enterprise+Center,+Clark+Avenue,+St.+Louis,+MO/@38.6224571,-90.2087799,16z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m20!4m19!1m5!1m1!1s0x87d8b4d6aaaaaaab:0xe827c6cd825f1b4!2m2!1d-90.2104386!2d38.620395!1m5!1m1!1s0x87d8b30fab04219d:0x2d4dc0d8177b07bd!2m2!1d-90.1985526!2d38.6189179!1m5!1m1!1s0x87d8b313f33f9ffd:0x16d092e190f89a21!2m2!1d-90.2026783!2d38.6268402!3e0) 1814 MO-100 - Google Maps (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6205919,-90.2106038,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWxn9-FxgggWtlwXLU2ig_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
and the Enterprise Center in St Louis
:lol:
Did Padilla just randomly announce we're getting a new building during his opening remarks for the presser?
I heard it. He said that the building would start in 2 years North of Brown Field... Seems VERY optimistic.
Will sombody please ask Padilla for clarification on the new arena!!!!
Quote from: FWalum on April 12, 2023, 10:49:33 AM
Will sombody please ask Padilla for clarification on the new arena!!!!
I waited until my 1-on-1 with Padilla and I got a ton of info on this. It will be up on TheVictoryBell.com in the next day or so. Need to see how I'm spacing out stories.
I guess it's time to test the theory if people are willing to spend $50! Lol.
Quote from: FWalum on April 12, 2023, 10:16:09 AM
I heard it. He said that the building would start in 2 years North of Brown Field... Seems VERY optimistic.
I haven't seen it yet. Is he talking about adding a second nursing building on LaPorte west of Lebien Hall?
Padilla, at one time, said that any new arena would be more than a BB Arena. It would be a multi-use facility that would incorporate a conference center and possibly a hotel.
If we had a champagne taste and budget, check out little ole High Point's facility. The idea is to not only benefit VU but share that benefit with the community as well. Could work.
https://www.highpoint.edu/arena/
High Point has a beautiful facility. Tubby Smith provided funding for that as a gift back to his alma mater.
It's way over the top, but it could serve as a model, albeit in, maybe, a scaled down version luxury-wise.
QuoteAbout the Qubein Arena and Conference Center
$120 million total cost for arena, conference center and hotel
4,500 arena seats
Features include suites, locker rooms, staff offices, concession stands, a merchandising area, media suite, film room, press conference room, weight room, athletic training room, hospitality area, high tech audio and video equipment, ticket office and practice gym
2,500 conference center seats
A small, executive hotel will be located adjacent to the conference center to support a proposed hospitality management program and accommodate a growing number of requests by organizations who specifically want to tour the campus and experience HPU's unique educational environment and culture.
Construction will begin during the 2018-2019 academic year
https://www.highpoint.edu/blog/2017/01/hpu-to-name-new-arena-and-conference-center-in-honor-of-qubein-family/
"This past weekend (Sept. 24-26th, 2021) High Point University saw the Grand Opening of the Nido and Mariana Qubein Arena & Conference Center occur with three days filled with celebration. The Qubein Center is a
$170 million-dollar state-of-the-art facility, that will be the new home of HPU Basketball on the Donna and Tubby Smith Court, a space for engaged learning inside the conference center, and a place for enjoyment and experimental learning in the Jana and Ken Kahn Hotel."
I've flapped my gums enough to put my $ where my mouth has been. So, I donated. Why?
1. They made the necessary move by letting ML go.
2. They made a really, really strong hire.
3. Dr. Small & President Padilla made it clear they *are* committed to the Valpo MBB program - I especially respected the clear sentiments expressed concerning the new facility.
I'll also be renewing my season tickets.
In short, they are doing more than I thought they'd do - so, I'm pleasantly surprised & willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'll be honest...when it comes to Day of Giving, I can't donate a lot, but when I do, I split my small donation between the Cross Country and Track teams. I do that because I was a part of those programs when the track was unusable at Eastgate, we were still in the Mid-Con, and the coaching staff could only do so much to build the program. Now that we have a track again, and a new coach, it's time to support it as I can. The Day of Giving would have been a great time to come out with a Facilities announcement about what the new athletics/fitness center would look like, include, and be for the University and Community. Hopefully Day of Giving 2024 will bring that sort of announcement.
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1664701678929559552
Nice, but putting lipstick on a pig...
PA get an upgrade?
Lipstick on a pig? Couldn't disagree more.
Sure, the argument could be made these changes are at least 10 years late but LED lighting will make the arena look a little better in person and MILES better on TV. I was tired of watching home games on ESPN+ that looked like they were being played in a dimly lit cave. Also, it seemed we couldn't go a full season without at least 4-5 games with major problems on the scoreboard so hopefully this clears those up.
Seriously, in less than 3 months we've bought out a coach, hit a home run on the hire (or so we think, time will tell), and upgraded the arena. That's a helluva spring.
I've heard that the new lights also have the ability to be shut on and off easily so we can have real starting line up introductions which should definitely help with game day atmosphere.
It may seem like lipstick on a pig but honestly if they had put more lipstick on throughout the last 40 years it probably would have helped keep it from looking and feeling so dated.
I also have more tolerance for minor upgrades to the arena now that we have a promise for a completely new arena in the somewhat-near future. It shows that while they are dedicating the money for future major improvements, they aren't neglecting the short term need to boost game-day atmosphere and invest in Powell right from the start.
As someone who regularly measured the light intensity and color temperature on the court at the ARC during basketball games and volleyball matches, and who spoke of this irritating issue as far back as ten years ago, I am pleased to learn the problem is finally being fixed. Though it might not seem drastic to the naked eye that adjusts in the middle of a game, Valpo has long had a well-earned reputation as one of the gloomiest arenas for viewing from the stands, photographing on the floor, and broadcasting on television. Additionally, the level of lighting would annoyingly alter from moment to moment depending upon what was being shown on the overhead scoreboard, which inordinately influenced overall illumination.
Finally, we have some tangible improvements to actually hold and feel. Congrats President Padilla and AD Small! Keep them coming!
https://twitter.com/TVBOren/status/1664704239107559424?s=20
If a veteran bb journalist that's been to every MVC, HL, Mid Con facility and countless others calls the new lights "outstanding," I'm excited!
It helps when you have a University President and Athletic Director that are working on the same page for plans to improve, rather than working against each other. Yes, many parts of campus needed drastic improvement during the Heckler years, but not at the cost of "closing" campus to the general public with the closure of Chapel Dr. The VU Campus was already very walkable, even with the number of cars that might pass through during the day, but to close it off with no access to replace it, cut off too many people in the elderly portion of the VU community that called The Chapel their church home.
The ARC needed these upgrades, but again, Heckler wanted to keep focused on increasing population, so that he could generate the money for campus improvements to dorms and academics. Now, I see President Padilla wanting to improve everything that needs to be done, even if some of his means might be a little more controversial. Now that we have some ideas of what is going to happen athletically, maybe we'll see more athletics alums donating at levels that push the need for better athletic facilities coming faster, so once the ground is broken, they can start the next campaign to improve other campus buildings and access needs for the university to feel open to the community again.
I'm guessing that Coach Powell took a good look at things at VU after receiving the offer and made certain improvements a condition of accepting the job. It's about going for a full-on return to NCAA relevance, which includes building a sense of momentum on campus that better days are ahead for the MBB team. So, if you don't yet have the bucks for a new athletic center, you spruce up what you've got. For starters, they understood that better lighting in a sports arena has a big, positive psychological impact. These guys are smart.
And....... There are at least two more physical improvements that need to be done as a part of relevance rebuilding: upgrading the sound system (very big) and expanding and improving concessions.
One other in-game, non-physical experience upgrade is also essential: building a kick-@ss pep band controlled by the athletic department. Bless the cheerleaders and dancers, but it's a band that gets the vibe throbbing. The crazier the better.
And speaking of the game experience, this is the perfect opportunity to change that. Not incrementally. Go big. Reimagine a Valpo experience. Get people excited just to be in the atmosphere. Put a fast paced, lunch bucket team on the floor. Go crazy.
Oh, and win a couple of games 😊🙃
Unless there has been a recent change, the Pep Band is controlled by the athletics department. The music department has wanted nothing to do with it. Not even sure they suggest talented vocalists to sing our national anthem. I believe the athletics department tried paying musicians to be in the band this year but attendance was still sporadic.
Then they need to develop a higher profile for the band on the department website. Certainly, they are part of the "Spirit Team" thing. But.... I understand that cheerleaders and dancers are not paid, so 5hat is anc issue, I guess. Sheesh!
Damn, is my alma mater campus that dead?
Quote from: sliman on June 04, 2023, 06:18:59 PM
Unless there has been a recent change, the Pep Band is controlled by the athletics department. The music department has wanted nothing to do with it. Not even sure they suggest talented vocalists to sing our national anthem. I believe the athletics department tried paying musicians to be in the band this year but attendance was still sporadic.
IMO kids aren't motivated by a little walk'in around money. As has been suggested many times before, award credit hours for pep band participation. Examples:
Providence
Members that are registered for the Pep Band course can earn 0.5 credits for their participation each semester. It is required for members to attend 80% of the games that the band plays each semester, but does adapt its schedule to avoid conflict with exams and school holidays.
American
AU students have the option to register and take Pep Band for 1 or 0 credit. Additionally, AU faculty and community members are welcome to join.
Eastern Illinois
Do I receive academic credit for participating in the marching band?
Yes. Marching band is an academic class offered through the university. All students must register for Marching Band (MUS 202 for 1 credit hour) before classes begin.
Maryville College
Students will receive academic credit for their participation, and scholarships are available for participants.
👍. Good research, WH.
An active pep band is usually the result of having a full time associate director of band director that focuses on marching band, pep band and a concert band. Responsibilities would include, recruiting, retention, being visible at a few parades, home football half time shows, basketball games, maybe one or two road football games each year, maybe even a big marching band trip out of state every few years . If you have say 125-150 kids in a marching band, and if half spend on concessions at each game, some revenue goes back into the athletic budget. Even parents of marching members will show up, more game day ticket revenue and concession spending. A credit should be offered per semester.
This really comes down to the vision of the university and if they could come up with 55-70K a year to have this position.
Having a winning basketball team helps generate interest in a pep band but they weren't even supported going to MSG during the NIT run. Not like they had 40 kids in the pep band then. University can't afford or has no interest in creating an associate director of bands position. Until that occurs you'll continue to see lack luster participation in a pep band when it's student led.
The pep band is not student led. When I suggested to Dr. Small last year that he visit the music fraternity, he told me that the leader of the band, a staff member in IT, was going to be getting the band together. The eventual $500 stipend offered for students to play did not create a robust group full of enthusiasm.
This administration does not have a positive relationship with the music department (which can be said of many departments), and there is much can be done to improve it. Appearing to make the music department a vassal of the athletic program certainly won't help.
Do athletes ever show up for concerts?
In his first year, I saw Padilla at one event, but I haven't seen him since.
Has anyone had a respectful conversation with Dr. Doebler about the practice schedule?[/li][/list]
I recognize that cuts around the university are necessary as students academic choices have evolved and enrollment has declined. The resulting morale issues require extra sensitivity from the non-academic athletic program which is being (relatively) showered with investment.
Quote from: humbleopinion on June 05, 2023, 06:28:08 AM
The pep band is not student led. When I suggested to Dr. Small last year that he visit the music fraternity, he told me that the leader of the band, a staff member in IT, was going to be getting the band together. The eventual $500 stipend offered for students to play did not create a robust group full of enthusiasm.
This administration does not have a positive relationship with the music department (which can be said of many departments), and there is much can be done to improve it. Appearing to make the music department a vassal of the athletic program certainly won't help.
Do athletes ever show up for concerts?
In his first year, I saw Padilla at one event, but I haven't seen him since.
Has anyone had a respectful conversation with Dr. Doebler about the practice schedule?[/li][/list]
I recognize that cuts around the university are necessary as students academic choices have evolved and enrollment has declined. The resulting morale issues require extra sensitivity from the non-academic athletic program which is being (relatively) showered with investment.
"The executives who ignited the transformations from good to great did not first figure out where to drive the bus and then get people to take it there. No, they first got the right people on the bus (and the wrong people off the bus) and then figured out where to drive it. They said, in essence,
"Look, I don't really know where we should take this bus. But I know this much: If we get the right people on the bus, the right people in the right seats, and the wrong people off the bus, then we'll figure out how to take it someplace great." Good To Great:
Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't Every good business leader has a copy of Good To Great somewhere in their collection. I would bet money on President Padilla having read it.
Great point. Find people who want to strive upward with a big vision. Turf-guarders with petty grievances can't get in your way. Love the band, orchestra, and choir. But the TV news stations don't report their scores.
Quote from: crusadermoe on June 05, 2023, 01:02:15 PM
Great point. Find people who want to strive upward with a big vision. Turf-guarders with petty grievances can't get in your way. Love the band, orchestra, and choir. But the TV news stations don't report their scores.
So the approach to recruiting a pep band should continue to be what it has been? Who are these people who want to strive upward and how are you going to find them? To have a good pep band, the section needs to be filled with people with a particular skill set. I was suggesting ways of finding musicians that might want to contribute to the atmosphere on game nights and convincing them that its worth their time to do so.
I support the athletic department, but I hope that the vision is a basketball team that supports the vision of the university not the other way around.
If I was the band director and there was a need for music within the university I'd be all over it. What a great way to show the success of your department in front of more people.
Certainly when it's an easy dept to cut, I'd be front and center at everything I could.
New lights + screens? I'll take it. Beggers can't be choosers; it's long been said. These are two much-needed improvements and a step in the right direction.
Quote from: Chairback on June 05, 2023, 05:41:10 PM
If I was the band director and there was a need for music within the university I'd be all over it. What a great way to show the success of your department in front of more people.
Certainly when it's an easy dept to cut, I'd be front and center at everything I could.
To your excellent point, here's what a fully engaged music director looking to make a huge impact on his university looks like. Feel the excitement, sense the enthusiasm, the boundless commitment to the larger cause. 180 degrees from Valpo's obstinate, minimally compliant, entrenched sad sacks in "the arts." I will be putting pen to paper tomorrow about this very subject with President Padilla.
Maryville College expanding band programJuly 6, 2022
"Interest in the band program has increased during the last several years, and I believe that having a presence at athletic events and other campus spirit-building activities is the next step for the program," said Dr. Eric Simpson, associate professor of music and director of bands at Maryville College. "We are excited to get started and look forward to being a part of campus life on a whole new level! Having a band back in the stands at games is really going to improve the game-day experience. We've got great athletes on the court/field competing at incredibly high levels, and our pep band is only going to serve to further engage our fans."https://www.maryvillecollege.edu/news/2022/maryville-college-expanding-band-program/
Quote from: Chairback on June 05, 2023, 05:41:10 PM
If I was the band director and there was a need for music within the university I'd be all over it. What a great way to show the success of your department in front of more people.
Certainly when it's an easy dept to cut, I'd be front and center at everything I could.
If only that were true.
I was in the last year of when the marching band and Crusader Band were officially each a 0.5 credit course in 1990-91. There was a paid director (Prof. Luther Estridge (sp?)) though all of the funds came from the Athletic Department. As I have said before on this forum, the Music Department detested the "pep" band and saw it as beneath themselves - over time certain faculty members worked to downgrade it from a major ensemble to a minor ensemble, then eliminate it. They went so far as to schedule rehearsal times for other major ensembles on top of the times allocated for the courses, so a student majoring in music could not register for both. Once it was officially eliminated as a course, certain faculty took the equipment (such as the drumset, keyboard and amplifier) that had been purchased with Athletic Department funds and made it the property of the Music Department. In truth, there was little funding for equipment from the Music Department.
There have been a few attempts to pay students to participate over the years with varying success. The key is to find good student directors / leaders who want to be there and have the skills and enthusiasm to manage a student-run organization. The second key is to have enough funding (from the Athletic Department) for equipment, music and perhaps matching shirts, and maybe a modest stipend for the director(s).
Is this when we thank the Northern Iowa (I believe) pep band for being Valpo's surrogate band at this year's Arch Madness?
Forever EMBARRASSING 😨
I agree with valpo95's points, but the other key is a winning team. A winning team generates greater attendance and game day enthusiasm - and I would think band members would want to be a part of that. Additionally, the realistic possibility to go play at NCAA tournament games would also increase potential band members' interest.
It is great to see that we are getting a new scoreboard and LED lights. But, to suggest that Roger Powell insisted on these improvements to agree to be hired is unlikely. I got believe it was more of case Dr Small had these as selling points to VU's commitment to MBB program. To find donors plus building the new scoreboard did not happen in couple months, but rather something that had to be worked on for awhile.
As far as the lighting, Nipsco announced in early January major rebate program that I am sure allowed Valpo to justify the upgrade for little, if not, no costs. I own a manufacturing business in NW Indiana and I was contacted shortly after the program was announced in January by contractor to upgrade to LED lights. I had already done this about 5 years ago without a rebate. My payback back then was just over a year. The savings in utility cost was huge. The improved lighting was also a big morale boost for my employees. Good for Valpo for acting quickly to take advantage of this opportunity!
Quote from: tjjvalpo on June 06, 2023, 02:25:39 PM
It is great to see that we are getting a new scoreboard and LED lights. But, to suggest that Roger Powell insisted on these improvements to agree to be hired is unlikely. I got believe it was more of case Dr Small had these as selling points to VU's commitment to MBB program. To find donors plus building the new scoreboard did not happen in couple months, but rather something that had to be worked on for awhile.
As far as the lighting, Nipsco announced in early January major rebate program that I am sure allowed Valpo to justify the upgrade for little, if not, no costs. I own a manufacturing business in NW Indiana and I was contacted shortly after the program was announced in January by contractor to upgrade to LED lights. I had already done this about 5 years ago without a rebate. My payback back then was just over a year. The savings in utility cost was huge. The improved lighting was also a big morale boost for my employees. Good for Valpo for acting quickly to take advantage of this opportunity!
If it was Titan LED, their local rep in your area is a Valpo alum. I see him post on Facebook all of the time, around buildings they have upgraded.
https://twitter.com/CoachQG/status/1667288631621369858?s=20
If I remember correctly, once Indiana could begin to relax Covid protocols, VU was working to get the band back. They didn't offer the $500 a member stipend until second semester of 2022-23 academic year. Now that the athletic department has had some time to find a full-time director, or a student director, they can move forward with ways to recruit, get out around campus and the community at-large, and get the music hopping around Brown Field and the ARC again. I'm not sure it was so much about the winning or losing as it was having the director, and being able to return to games post-Covid. In terms of Arch Madness, by the time the band was back to playing again, some of the members had already committed to Spring Break trips with other groups, and they had paid for those prior to knowing they would be in the reformed Pep Band. It will take a little time to rebuild the band, but I think Dr. Small and President Padilla will make it happen in ways that Mark Heckler limited Mark LaBarbera's ability to grow anything in athletics, including the band.
Here's hoping you are right. :thumbsup:
Here's what I'm thinking ...
You know you go to a hotel and turn the bathroom vanity light on and are like, "Woah!!!! Is this seriously what I look like on the daily?!?"
Once the shock factor wears off, you're like: "I didn't even know I had a mole there or a scratch here, etc. And, boy oh boy are these wrinkles getting deep!"
The point being: The new lights will cause the powers-that-be to make some low-cost, high-aesthetic impact decisions in the short term that make the ARC a bit more exhilarating—Ex: Some fresh paint ... etc.
In addition to aesthetics, how about a player introduction video that gets the crowd pumped up. Here's what Roger has been part of for the past 5 years (crank up the volume):
https://youtube.com/watch?v=DxjcfsXuc0A&feature=share
They've already completely repainted the ARC and railings and doors right before changing the lights. It looks like it went from the dingy beige and yellow to white throughout and the railing went from yellow to black
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1664701678929559552?s=20
Quote from: crusader05 on June 13, 2023, 05:27:02 PM
They've already completely repainted the ARC and railings and doors right before changing the lights. It looks like it went from the dingy beige and yellow to white throughout and the railing went from yellow to black
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1664701678929559552?s=20
Jimmy Lemke chimed in with a smart ass comment about our new lights, so I thought I would see how Milwaukee has been doing since we left the HL. Not surprisingly, the answer is absolutely nothing.
Last regular season championship 2011
Last conference tournament championship 2014
Last NCAA tournament appearance
2014
Major metropolitan area, great arena, terrible men's bb program. Steady as she goes, lol.
Quote from: crusader05 on June 13, 2023, 05:27:02 PM
They've already completely repainted the ARC and railings and doors right before changing the lights. It looks like it went from the dingy beige and yellow to white throughout and the railing went from yellow to black
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1664701678929559552?s=20
The only thing left to do is get rid of the Bud Light sign.
Jimmy is still butt hurt about his Panthers not getting the MVC invite, because they suck :)
The reason that UWM did not get an invite to the MVC is attendance and general interest of their basketball program in Milwaukee.
Never understood the Bud Light hate. It's the perfect drink to pair with anything at Cracker Barrel after a long day shopping at Target.
Is there any talk about replacing the sound system?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on June 14, 2023, 08:43:59 AM
Never understood the Bud Light hate. It's the perfect drink to pair with anything at Cracker Barrel after a long day shopping at Target.
"Modelo Especial, the Mexican lager brewed near Mexico City by Constellation Brands, became the top-selling beer in May, overthrowing Bud Light from the top spot it has held for more than two decades."
A better beer IMHO and a better choice to support President Padilla's initiative to engage the Hispanic community.
Quote from: wh on June 15, 2023, 07:58:08 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on June 14, 2023, 08:43:59 AM
Never understood the Bud Light hate. It's the perfect drink to pair with anything at Cracker Barrel after a long day shopping at Target.
"Modelo Especial, the Mexican lager brewed near Mexico City by Constellation Brands, became the top-selling beer in May, overthrowing Bud Light from the top spot it has held for more than two decades."
A better beer IMHO and a better choice to support President Padilla's initiative to engage the Hispanic community.
They could be selling Old Style and I'd be thrilled.
I'm just happy they sell BEER!!!!!
I asked this on another, non-facility string as kind of an tack-on question. No one responded. So I'll try again here:
Why, since it opened in 1984 (39 years ago), haven't the ARC's south side wood bleacher seats been upgraded to retractable chairbacks to match the north side?
I'm pretty sure it would only reduce capacity a bit, but insignificantly IMO. It would require no significant renovation or construction while improving the arena's appearance with minimal investment. So, why not add better quality seating that appeals to season ticket holders and also creates a bowl-like atmosphere that helps a bit to differentiate the arena from its biggest criticism — that it's just a big HS gym?
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 26, 2023, 10:55:56 AM
I asked this on another, non-facility string as kind of an tack-on question. No one responded. So I'll try again here:
Why, since it opened in 1984 (39 years ago), haven't the ARC's south side wood bleacher seats been upgraded to retractable chairbacks to match the north side?
I'm pretty sure it would only reduce capacity a bit, but insignificantly IMO. It would require no significant renovation or construction while improving the arena's appearance with minimal investment. So, why not add better quality seating that appeals to season ticket holders and also creates a bowl-like atmosphere that helps a bit to differentiate the arena from its biggest criticism — that it's just a big HS gym?
I'm guessing the cost. I did a quick look on the internet and found cost run from $100-$500 a seat, plus demolition and installation. So, if there are 1500 seats that's $150,000-$750,000.
Quote from: vu72 on June 26, 2023, 11:33:04 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 26, 2023, 10:55:56 AM
I asked this on another, non-facility string as kind of an tack-on question. No one responded. So I'll try again here:
Why, since it opened in 1984 (39 years ago), haven't the ARC's south side wood bleacher seats been upgraded to retractable chairbacks to match the north side?
I'm pretty sure it would only reduce capacity a bit, but insignificantly IMO. It would require no significant renovation or construction while improving the arena's appearance with minimal investment. So, why not add better quality seating that appeals to season ticket holders and also creates a bowl-like atmosphere that helps a bit to differentiate the arena from its biggest criticism — that it's just a big HS gym?
I'm guessing the cost. I did a quick look on the internet and found cost run from $100-$500 a seat, plus demolition and installation. Do if there are 1500 seats that's $150,000-$750,000.
Thanks 72. That might also account for not doing it in the first place — a corner to cut to reduce initial cost — even at 1984 prices. But, of course, winning will put butts on bleacher seats just as they would chairbacks I guess.
Yet, if the envisioned new arena is, say, realistically 5-8+ years down the road, an upgrade now might be worth the investment over that time. For instance, it might be fun to put together packages that might, as a part of the contract, guarantee the same seat in the new arena (@ a premium now, but a savings later) that would help, in part, pay for the upgrade. Just spitballing....... ::)
https://www.valpoathletics.com/athletics/news/2022-23/22168/valpo-athletics-invests-in-facility-upgrades/
Quote from: valporun on June 11, 2023, 11:16:28 AM
If I remember correctly, once Indiana could begin to relax Covid protocols, VU was working to get the band back. They didn't offer the $500 a member stipend until second semester of 2022-23 academic year. Now that the athletic department has had some time to find a full-time director, or a student director, they can move forward with ways to recruit, get out around campus and the community at-large, and get the music hopping around Brown Field and the ARC again. I'm not sure it was so much about the winning or losing as it was having the director, and being able to return to games post-Covid. In terms of Arch Madness, by the time the band was back to playing again, some of the members had already committed to Spring Break trips with other groups, and they had paid for those prior to knowing they would be in the reformed Pep Band. It will take a little time to rebuild the band, but I think Dr. Small and President Padilla will make it happen in ways that Mark Heckler limited Mark LaBarbera's ability to grow anything in athletics, including the band.
Before the start of every home game, Homer would walk over to the student section and applaud the students and then applaud the band separately. Some coaches just know intuitively the importance of expressing their gratitude to students who go the extra mile in supporting their program.
https://twitter.com/LSUfootball/status/1692165631955853665?s=20
And I'd add that Vashil always seemed to wind up in the student section after the final buzzer. Win or lose, the players and coaches need to express their thanks to the students.
The more they do it the more students will show up.
The more students that show up, the more raucous the atmosphere.
The more raucous the atmosphere, the more pressure on opponents.
The more pressure on opponents, the tougher it is for them to get into rhythm.
The more.... Well you get my drift.
wh and vulb make some really good points here. The important thing to note is that, beyond winning and then getting good opponents at home, everything else related to (re)building a strong program is associated with doing many things that seem little - but cumulatively build identity. The coach and players recognizing and welcoming the students and other fans is just one of these many little (but important) things.
I agree with the sentiments expressed concerning the seating. Honestly, the chairbacks are far from comfortable. I've yet to make the move paying quite a btit extra for the chairback season tickets comparative to bleacher seating. Why? I bring cushions and, quite honestly, it makes it more comfortable than the chairbacks in general. Granted, it's crammed in the bleachers. Even walking up and down the stairs of the chairback section, they're rickety & wobbly. Not quite sure how they're deemed safe, tbh.
That said, there's really not many seats/sections that are super ADA compliant in my humble opinion (at least for him). I have a parent who would like to come but has a very difficult time doing so given the overall "meh" arrangement.
Quote from: wh on June 13, 2023, 05:15:46 PMIn addition to aesthetics, how about a player introduction video that gets the crowd pumped up. Here's what Roger has been part of for the past 5 years (crank up the volume): &feature=share
Ya know something, that highlight video speaks volumes about the humongous difference between getting Coach Powell right after Bryce left vs. getting him today, for he now understands in close detail what it takes for a mid-major to be consistently relevant in March. He returns to VU fully aware -- in living color -- of the huge contrasts between Gonzaga and our current situation, yet he believes that VU can become a presence in the NCAA tournament.
Furthermore, while the new facility being discussed is an exciting prospect, both Coach Powell and Dr. Small understand that putting the energy back into whatever building the team calls home is a huge key to that success.
In one of the VU General Discussion items, some of us have discussed the galvanizing effect that O.P. Kretzmann had on the small VU community in 1940, when he gave his inaugural address in the Hilltop Gymnasium. Among other things, he invited people to envision a university much better and more influential than its current, very modest condition. In his own way, Coach Powell is breathing that kind of life into the MBB program. It's hardly a guarantee of success, but I don't think we could've landed a better guy to answer the question of whether VU can beat the odds as a mid-major trying to outpunch its weight in the current NCAA environment.
Ya know, it's kinda disturbing to have Purdue - Fort Wayne's athletic facilities include an on-campus, 90,000 square foot indoor field house, office complex and locker facilities named The Lutheran Health Field House.
It's a bit embarrassing. Wouldn't you think Valpo could better generate a Lutheran-connected sponsor for its facilities? Maybe not Lutheran Health cuz that sounds like a Ft. Wayne local/regional healthcare provider, but how about Thrivent?
Just asking for a friend. ;)
I agree with you VULB#62...I wonder if the University has ever pursued the ideas of sponsorship with Thrivent, including that of being a major donor to a new Arena project. I would think we have tried that route but who knows. With the expanded role Thrivent has taken regarding those eligible to purchase products from Thrivent I would think their expanded market would lend itself well to sponsorship in a broad based "Lutheran" university like Valpo.
Especially in that Valpo is one of only two (Wagner being the other) Lutheran affiliated universities in D-I and whose name regularly appears on the ESPN scores crawler. Additionally, I would submit that Valpo's national rep (yeah, the shot 😀), mid-west roots, MVC membership and national schedule is far more attractive to an advertiser like Thrivent which is headquartered in Appleton, WI.
To build relationships, maybe they need to send a personal invite for the bourbon and cigars event to some key Thrivent executives.
I would imagine (and hope) there's a lot of courting corporate donors going on behind closed doors.
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 28, 2023, 08:32:16 AMis far more attractive to an advertiser like Thrivent which is headquartered in Appleton, WI.
Pretty sure their headquarters are in Minneapolis. They merged years ago with AAL which was headquartered in Appleton.
Although Cornell Boggs is the only current Valpo grad on the Board, he is the Chairman of same.
Yes, Thrivent is a merger of AAL and Lutheran brotherhood financial organizations that occurred in 2002, I believe. They recently opened a $130 million HQ in the Twin Cities in 2020, but continue to list their beautiful Appleton HQ as like a co-headquarters. My brother and, later, my sister-in-law were regional agents and flew frequently to Appleton as late as 2013 for meetings. Regardless of whether there is a HQ hierarchy, or even if Appleton might eventually be phased out, it is solidly midwestern and Valpo certainly needs to further cultivate that link, although MLB once told me that they had continually tried with little success.
As a $8.5 billion fraternal financial management non-profit, they are obligated to pump profits back into the community and Valpo would certainly qualify as a Lutheran-based non-profit entity. It certainly can demonstrate a need 😉
Said this in another thread but it seems imprudent to launch a bricks-and-mortar campaign with one, count 'em, ONE fundraiser on the payroll.
Quote from: KreitzerSTL on August 30, 2023, 08:22:32 PM
Said this in another thread but it seems imprudent to launch a bricks-and-mortar campaign with one, count 'em, ONE fundraiser on the payroll.
Obviously you are trying to stir the pot with a statement that on its face seems ridiculous. Did the entire advancement department quit? Seemed pretty well staffed when I was there earlier this summer.
Wouldn't they be focused on putting up the new nursing building? Thought VU was raising for both at the same time.
For the record on Lutheran Health Network building on Purdue Fort Wayne campus.
Lutheran congregations started Lutheran Hospital Fort Wayne in 1904
They sold it to an out of state Corporation in 1995 and that Corporation was permitted to keep the name Lutheran.
So Purdue Fort Wayne's building was paid for by a Corporation that is NOT connected to Lutherans.
The Fort Wayne Lutherans were the instrumental group that bought Valparaiso University in the 1930s. They rode the train from Fort Wayne to Valparaiso to seal the deal.
Quote from: FWalum on August 31, 2023, 05:44:11 PM
Did the entire advancement department quit?
Taking a look at the staff page on alumni.valpo.edu, it looks like the "charitable giving" team has shrunk.
How many of them are alumni from graduation years before 1995?
And then compare that to the years when donors give the highest amounts.