Drake fan here. After last night, I'm reduced to making posts like this (http://www.drakenation.com/Topic102297-8-1.aspx).
Anyway- I'd like to read your opinions on this as they relate to Valpo.
I don't see this happening it would be nice to have an all private "Midwest" conference, it's just a lot of energy to start up a new conference, everyone needs to be on board with the idea.
However, I would like to see us play Drake every year in Valpo and Des Moines. I do hope Valpo goes into the MVC and play Drake every year. It'd be good for both schools since both are similarly sized private schools with non-scholarship football programs in the Pioneer League.
It would also be nice to play Drake every season since the campus is about 10 minutes from my house...
I've stated on here before that I would like to be grouped with similar universities. Several people on the forum did not agree with me and did not see the correlation between a conference and like-minded universities.
Quote from: Lurking Dog on March 06, 2015, 09:55:28 AM
Drake fan here. After last night, I'm reduced to making posts like this (http://www.drakenation.com/Topic102297-8-1.aspx).
Were you counting Belmont as 1st place in the OVC?
Our current conference consist of large commuter state schools with huge alumni base. They graduate many times more than Valpo each year but still struggle to have a solid following.
Quote from: Lurking Dog on March 06, 2015, 09:55:28 AM
Drake fan here. After last night, I'm reduced to making posts like this (http://www.drakenation.com/Topic102297-8-1.aspx).
Anyway- I'd like to read your opinions on this as they relate to Valpo.
Watched the second half of that Drake Bradley game last night and was pulling for you guys. What a brutal game. I think there was about 3 total points scored after the last media timeout. Overtime wasn't much better, most the points scored were free throws. The game winner was 2 free throws with 2.5 seconds left after a foul on a pass (terrible call). Drake had a chance to win with a 3 at the end, but they inbounded it to their big man and he immediately tried a one-armed heave from 3/4 length instead of passing or trying to take a couple dribbles to get a bit closer. All I could do was chuckle.
Anyways, I'm sure Bradley, Drake, Evansville, and non-WSU/UNI fans probably feel a bit hopeless right now. In the Horizon a 3, 4, 5 seed can win the tournament because the separation between teams is relatively low. The MVC's 3, 4, 5 seeds? Good luck.
But as for spending, Drakes actually 3rd in MVC spending and Bradley is 2nd. Indiana State is the 2nd lowest, but has had some decent success. So I'd be careful directly tying athletic spending to success in the HL and MVC. Drake's 2013 budget was $500,000 more than Valpo's, but I think we're programs heading in two different directions (no offense meant). High spending doesn't seem to be related to being a private or public school. Detroit has the highest budget in our conference, while YSU has the lowest. For years people on this board have argued that we need to be in a conference with more private schools. I just haven't read a good argument as to why yet.
Drake
Bradley
Evansville
Loyola
Valparaiso
Detroit
Belmont
Lipscomb
If I am Valpo and it is an option, I would jump on it. I would probably add Oral Roberts to the mix. I think we would need them and perhaps Dallas Baptist for baseball.
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 06, 2015, 12:33:44 PM
Drake
Bradley
Evansville
Loyola
Valparaiso
Detroit
Belmont
Lipscomb
If I am Valpo and it is an option, I would jump on it. I would probably add Oral Roberts to the mix. I think we would need them and perhaps Dallas Baptist for baseball.
This would be a downgrade. I really don't understand the infatuation with being in an athletic conference of all private schools. We're in a conference with a bunch of commuter schools. So what? Its not like people are attending Drake and Bradley over Valpo because their athletic conference has more private schools. Nobody associates a school's academics with their mid major athletics conference.
UWM, CSU, WSU, and UWGB all have a certain ceiling, but with success their budgets would increase and fans would pay attention. Just like any private school.
Quote from: a3uge on March 06, 2015, 12:47:13 PMThis would be a downgrade. I really don't understand the infatuation with being in an athletic conference of all private schools. We're in a conference with a bunch of commuter schools. So what? Its not like people are attending Drake and Bradley over Valpo because their athletic conference has more private schools. Nobody associates a school's academics with their mid major athletics conference.
I have never understood those who don't.
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 06, 2015, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 06, 2015, 12:47:13 PMThis would be a downgrade. I really don't understand the infatuation with being in an athletic conference of all private schools. We're in a conference with a bunch of commuter schools. So what? Its not like people are attending Drake and Bradley over Valpo because their athletic conference has more private schools. Nobody associates a school's academics with their mid major athletics conference.
I have never understood those who don't.
So when you look at Oral Roberts you think of large commuter schools like IUPUI because they belong to the same athletics conference?
Its an athletics conference, not an academic decathlon conference.
Is there still talk of the MVC upgrading to FBS for football? If so it would make sense for Youngstown, and the Dakota schools to join for all sports, and Evansville, Drake and Bradley to come over to the Horizon.
Quote from: VU75 on March 06, 2015, 01:28:39 PM
Is there still talk of the MVC upgrading to FBS for football?
No.
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 06, 2015, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 06, 2015, 12:47:13 PMThis would be a downgrade. I really don't understand the infatuation with being in an athletic conference of all private schools. We're in a conference with a bunch of commuter schools. So what? Its not like people are attending Drake and Bradley over Valpo because their athletic conference has more private schools. Nobody associates a school's academics with their mid major athletics conference.
I have never understood those who don't.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I have absolutely no hidden agenda here. Like a3uge, I have never understood the value of an athletic conference of private-only schools. I can understand a conference where every school is the same religion like the "new" Big East (minus Butler). I can understand a D-3 conference of all Protestant schools like the one Goshen and Bethel are in where they share similar missions and value systems, and where they might want to intertwine religion with their athletic programs. For example, maybe they all agree to have a corporate prayer before/after athletic events, or have no athletic events on Sunday, or whatever. Those are tangible things I can understand.
If there are those kinds of tangible benefits to forming a conference from a hodgepodge of private schools without any religious affiliation, would someone kindly list 4 or 5 so I can understand where you're coming from?
To me it just a personal preference. I would rather play Drake, Bradley, Evansville. etc. over UIC, Cleveland State. No big mystery, I also think it would be a better conference.
Quote from: wh on March 06, 2015, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 06, 2015, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 06, 2015, 12:47:13 PMThis would be a downgrade. I really don't understand the infatuation with being in an athletic conference of all private schools. We're in a conference with a bunch of commuter schools. So what? Its not like people are attending Drake and Bradley over Valpo because their athletic conference has more private schools. Nobody associates a school's academics with their mid major athletics conference.
I have never understood those who don't.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I have absolutely no hidden agenda here. Like a3uge, I have never understood the value of an athletic conference of private-only schools. I can understand a conference where every school is the same religion like the "new" Big East (minus Butler). I can understand a D-3 conference of all Protestant schools like the one Goshen and Bethel are in where they share similar missions and value systems, and where they might want to intertwine religion with their athletic programs. For example, maybe they all agree to have a corporate prayer before/after athletic events, or have no athletic events on Sunday, or whatever. Those are tangible things I can understand.
If there are those kinds of tangible benefits to forming a conference from a hodgepodge of private schools without any religious affiliation, would someone kindly list 4 or 5 so I can understand where you're coming from?
Reasons 1-5: Prestige.
VU, Drake, Bradley, Butler, Evansville, Xavier, Creighton, etc -- all better academic schools than Cleveland State, Ball State, UWGB, etc. Better academically by a wide margin. I would think you want to affiliate as much as possible with like-minded, similar schools. It's why the Big 10 members are all research institutions. And it's why VU, in a perfect world, should be playing Drake, Butler, Evansville, etc. rather than, for example, Youngstown State or Wright State.
And at least there is some history behind playing other private schools. One year we played Southern Utah for the Mid-Con tourney title and the ESPN guy mocked the game by referreing to VU and SUU as "ancient rivals." There is something to be said for playing schools that are academically and geographically close to you.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on March 06, 2015, 04:19:14 PM
Quote from: wh on March 06, 2015, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 06, 2015, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 06, 2015, 12:47:13 PMThis would be a downgrade. I really don't understand the infatuation with being in an athletic conference of all private schools. We're in a conference with a bunch of commuter schools. So what? Its not like people are attending Drake and Bradley over Valpo because their athletic conference has more private schools. Nobody associates a school's academics with their mid major athletics conference.
I have never understood those who don't.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I have absolutely no hidden agenda here. Like a3uge, I have never understood the value of an athletic conference of private-only schools. I can understand a conference where every school is the same religion like the "new" Big East (minus Butler). I can understand a D-3 conference of all Protestant schools like the one Goshen and Bethel are in where they share similar missions and value systems, and where they might want to intertwine religion with their athletic programs. For example, maybe they all agree to have a corporate prayer before/after athletic events, or have no athletic events on Sunday, or whatever. Those are tangible things I can understand.
If there are those kinds of tangible benefits to forming a conference from a hodgepodge of private schools without any religious affiliation, would someone kindly list 4 or 5 so I can understand where you're coming from?
Reasons 1-5: Prestige.
VU, Drake, Bradley, Butler, Evansville, Xavier, Creighton, etc -- all better academic schools than Cleveland State, Ball State, UWGB, etc. Better academically by a wide margin. I would think you want to affiliate as much as possible with like-minded, similar schools. It's why the Big 10 members are all research institutions. And it's why VU, in a perfect world, should be playing Drake, Butler, Evansville, etc. rather than, for example, Youngstown State or Wright State.
And at least there is some history behind playing other private schools. One year we played Southern Utah for the Mid-Con tourney title and the ESPN guy mocked the game by referreing to VU and SUU as "ancient rivals." There is something to be said for playing schools that are academically and geographically close to you.
Paul
Prestige? To who? So my mom will think Valpo is more prestigious because we play basketball against Bradley instead of Wright State? My friend will think I went to a better school because Evansville vs Valparaiso showed up on the CBS Sports Network? I mean how many people that went to Valpo even know what athletics conference we play in? I best most alumni can't even name more than a handful of teams we play. Playing Bradley, Drake, Evansville won't increase our academic image, but playing Wichita State and UNI would increase our athletics image. We should make athletic decisions based on athletics. Anyways, this proposal is silly and unreasonable. Nothing like this is going to happen.
Per that last point, the Horizon League is the most geographically compact we're ever going to get.
Quote from: 78crusader on March 06, 2015, 04:19:14 PM
Quote from: wh on March 06, 2015, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 06, 2015, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 06, 2015, 12:47:13 PMThis would be a downgrade. I really don't understand the infatuation with being in an athletic conference of all private schools. We're in a conference with a bunch of commuter schools. So what? Its not like people are attending Drake and Bradley over Valpo because their athletic conference has more private schools. Nobody associates a school's academics with their mid major athletics conference.
I have never understood those who don't.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I have absolutely no hidden agenda here. Like a3uge, I have never understood the value of an athletic conference of private-only schools. I can understand a conference where every school is the same religion like the "new" Big East (minus Butler). I can understand a D-3 conference of all Protestant schools like the one Goshen and Bethel are in where they share similar missions and value systems, and where they might want to intertwine religion with their athletic programs. For example, maybe they all agree to have a corporate prayer before/after athletic events, or have no athletic events on Sunday, or whatever. Those are tangible things I can understand.
If there are those kinds of tangible benefits to forming a conference from a hodgepodge of private schools without any religious affiliation, would someone kindly list 4 or 5 so I can understand where you're coming from?
Reasons 1-5: Prestige.
VU, Drake, Bradley, Butler, Evansville, Xavier, Creighton, etc -- all better academic schools than Cleveland State, Ball State, UWGB, etc. Better academically by a wide margin. I would think you want to affiliate as much as possible with like-minded, similar schools. It's why the Big 10 members are all research institutions. And it's why VU, in a perfect world, should be playing Drake, Butler, Evansville, etc. rather than, for example, Youngstown State or Wright State.
And at least there is some history behind playing other private schools. One year we played Southern Utah for the Mid-Con tourney title and the ESPN guy mocked the game by referreing to VU and SUU as "ancient rivals." There is something to be said for playing schools that are academically and geographically close to you.
Paul
Prestige? To who? So my mom will think Valpo is more prestigious because we play basketball against Bradley instead of Wright State? My friend will think I went to a better school because Evansville vs Valparaiso showed up on the CBS Sports Network? I mean how many people that went to Valpo even know what athletics conference we play in? I best most alumni can't even name more than a handful of teams we play. Playing Bradley, Drake, Evansville won't increase our academic image, but playing Wichita State and UNI would increase our athletics image. We should make athletic decisions based on athletics. Anyways, this proposal is silly and unreasonable. Nothing like this is going to happen.
Per that last point, the Horizon League is the most geographically compact we're ever going to get.
Quote from: 78crusader on March 06, 2015, 04:19:14 PM
Quote from: wh on March 06, 2015, 01:58:39 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 06, 2015, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 06, 2015, 12:47:13 PMThis would be a downgrade. I really don't understand the infatuation with being in an athletic conference of all private schools. We're in a conference with a bunch of commuter schools. So what? Its not like people are attending Drake and Bradley over Valpo because their athletic conference has more private schools. Nobody associates a school's academics with their mid major athletics conference.
I have never understood those who don't.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I have absolutely no hidden agenda here. Like a3uge, I have never understood the value of an athletic conference of private-only schools. I can understand a conference where every school is the same religion like the "new" Big East (minus Butler). I can understand a D-3 conference of all Protestant schools like the one Goshen and Bethel are in where they share similar missions and value systems, and where they might want to intertwine religion with their athletic programs. For example, maybe they all agree to have a corporate prayer before/after athletic events, or have no athletic events on Sunday, or whatever. Those are tangible things I can understand.
If there are those kinds of tangible benefits to forming a conference from a hodgepodge of private schools without any religious affiliation, would someone kindly list 4 or 5 so I can understand where you're coming from?
Reasons 1-5: Prestige.
VU, Drake, Bradley, Butler, Evansville, Xavier, Creighton, etc -- all better academic schools than Cleveland State, Ball State, UWGB, etc. Better academically by a wide margin. I would think you want to affiliate as much as possible with like-minded, similar schools. It's why the Big 10 members are all research institutions. And it's why VU, in a perfect world, should be playing Drake, Butler, Evansville, etc. rather than, for example, Youngstown State or Wright State.
And at least there is some history behind playing other private schools. One year we played Southern Utah for the Mid-Con tourney title and the ESPN guy mocked the game by referreing to VU and SUU as "ancient rivals." There is something to be said for playing schools that are academically and geographically close to you.
Paul
IMO seeing a private school like Valpo on the ESPN scoreboard crawler against any "State University" other than those in the power conferences does not have the same recognition factor athletically, academically or promotionally as when we would show up on the crawler against the privates mentioned above. These, largely, again IMO, are better recognized by people nationally than the likes of NW Kentucky State at Paduka, Arkansas State U - Pine Bluff, Wright State U (made up the first one to emphasize that there are so many nondescript State U's out there that few can keep track of them.) There is a measure of distinction being tied to the older private national university names -- especially those with good athletic traditions and reputations. Aren't the Patriot League and the Ivy league east coast versions of what we are generally discussing here for the midwest. They get some good recognition.
QuoteAren't the Patriot League and the Ivy league east coast versions of what we are generally discussing here for the midwest. They get some good recognition.
Although I would not compare these eight schools to the Ancient Eight, academic reputation would certainly be a plus. You are judged by the company you keep, and D-I athletics provides a lot of the exposure our schools receive.
a3uge raises good points, as usual. So does VULB#62.
My wife and I were out to dinner with friends one night. Our friends know we went to VU. They asked what conference we were in. (They are all sports fans to some degree, they just didn't know what our conference was -- not surprising, probably a bunch of people in Indiana couldn't name the conference Northern Iowa is in.) I told them, and mentioned the schools in our league -- including, for instance, Wright State and Youngstown State. When I mentioned those places, there were blank stares around the table. I thought to myself, I would have liked to mention Butler and Loyola of Chicago rather than WSU and YSU. It would have sounded better. I'm probably the only person on this board who feels that way. But it's maybe the best way I can explain what I mean by "prestige" as being the most important reason why we should be in a league with similarly-situated private schools. As someone else mentioned, you are judged -- athletically and, perhaps to some degree, academically -- by the company you keep.
I fear if the Horizon invites in someone like Northern Kentucky, we will back in the Mid-Con boat, which served as well for a time, but let's face it, at the end was not a particularly well-thought of conference and didn't do much to further the VU brand.
Paul
The MVC keeps making more sense. They have a decent number of privates: Drake, Bradley, Loyola, and Evansville. Could they perhaps bring in two privates? Valpo and someone else, Detroit, Oral Roberts, not sure who but I think Detroit and ORU would be good choices.
Make a two division conference, the Private division and the state division. You have a home at home with teams in your division and play a team from the other division once a year and switch off home games. There'd be 16 conference games. Or expand to 14 teams, 7 and 7 and have 19 games. I don't think it'd be difficult to find another good state school.
I'm hoping the HL picks up Belmont, get another private in the league. Right now, other than Valpo and Detroit, all the other schools are commuter schools that we have little in common with, in terms of academics.
I will never understand why a lot of you think it matters if we play private schools in the conference or if there arent enough private schools etc. basketball is basketball who cares if they're private or not.
If it were just about basketball, then sure. But it isn't "just about basketball". (...if it were we'd certainly boot YSU like ca. 2004)
It's not enough to have a really nice house; the neighborhood in which it is located also says a great deal about the house too, does it not?
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 07, 2015, 12:27:03 PM
If it were just about basketball, then sure. But it isn't "just about basketball". (...if it were we'd certainly boot YSU like ca. 2004)
It's not enough to have a really nice house; the neighborhood in which it is located also says a great deal about the house too, does it not?
Well put LAA.
Quote from: Lurking Dog on March 06, 2015, 09:55:28 AM
Drake fan here. After last night, I'm reduced to making posts like this (http://www.drakenation.com/Topic102297-8-1.aspx).
Anyway- I'd like to read your opinions on this as they relate to Valpo.
Here's what I think. In order for this to happen, you'd have to see simultaneous movement from members of five conferences: MVC, OVC, Summit (if you include ORU in this analysis), Atlantic Sun, and the Horizon.
Then, there is the issue of the payouts of tournament shares. Have the shares been paid out as a result of Wichita and Butler's final four runs? If not, you'd most likely forfeit those monies if you leave your current conference.
Then, there's the potential issue of exit fees.
Then, the new conference would have to apply to the NCAA so that it could receive an automatic birth to the NCAA tournament. I have no idea, but for basketball that process I am guessing would take about a year, right? (When the Mid Con reformed in 1995 there was no NCAA bid for at least one year.) So that means you are joining a conference with no immediate access to the NCAA tournament initially.
With WAC football dead, the aforementioned conference will never happen, so we will never have to worry about any of this.
Quote from: 78crusader on March 07, 2015, 11:26:47 AM
I fear if the Horizon invites in someone like Northern Kentucky, we will back in the Mid-Con boat, which served as well for a time, but let's face it, at the end was not a particularly well-thought of conference and didn't do much to further the VU brand.
Paul
Considering that eight of the current nine Horizon League members were in the Mid-Con at one point in time, Northern Kentucky, if added, will have no effect at all in that regard.
I keep wondering if all the TV spots on the Horizon League games for Kentucky elk hunting are some kind of foreshadowing.
This comes from the CSU fan forum,
"CSU is stuck in a pro sports town that caters to generally lower income commuter students."
I don't think CSU is the only one in our conference with this issue.
"Just compare Valpo and CSU. Valpo has a better campus, better athletic history, way better fan base, actual things to do on campus and it's a private school."
As someone mentioned in other terms, we share the same neighborhood but are very different and our neighbors see it too. There is a perception when school are categorized together.
Besides more private schools, the MVC is just better in all sports. Let's stay in the HL for a little while and win a couple more titles. The HL will start changing the tournament format and add sub par schools. Then we leave.
Let's remember the HL is not what it once was when they asked us to join. I'm not saying that because we lost 2 private school (some of you guys don't care and one of them being really competitive in men's bball). I'm saying it because there was a time the HL regularly sent two teams and also won NCAA tournament games. Not the case anymore, we send teams who have received 15, 14, and 15 seeds each of the last 3 years. See the difference? Let's have some success here and move on.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 08, 2015, 01:43:16 PMit could receive an automatic birth
yikes
(http://www.laerdal.com/images/L/AAPLKKXG.jpg)
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 08, 2015, 07:08:48 PM
This comes from the CSU fan forum,
"CSU is stuck in a pro sports town that caters to generally lower income commuter students."
I don't think CSU is the only one in our conference with this issue.
"Just compare Valpo and CSU. Valpo has a better campus, better athletic history, way better fan base, actual things to do on campus and it's a private school."
As someone mentioned in other terms, we share the same neighborhood but are very different and our neighbors see it too. There is a perception when school are categorized together.
Besides more private schools, the MVC is just better in all sports. Let's stay in the HL for a little while and win a couple more titles. The HL will start changing the tournament format and add sub par schools. Then we leave.
Let's remember the HL is not what it once was when they asked us to join. I'm not saying that because we lost 2 private school (some of you guys don't care and one of them being really competitive in men's bball). I'm saying it because there was a time the HL regularly sent two teams and also won NCAA tournament games. Not the case anymore, we send teams who have received 15, 14, and 15 seeds each of the last 3 years. See the difference? Let's have some success here and move on.
It's not impossible to have success in this league. We were given a 14 seed because the committed did us a 'favor' in placing us close to home. We had the best RPI to finish the season in the history of our program. We would've been a 13 seed the year we lost to Detroit. Last year Green Bay was almost an at-large. This year the Horizon League winner will have a 12 or 13 seed in a down year, and given one more win by Green Bay or Valpo, either team could have been an at-large. I honestly don't understand the superiority complex some of our fans have. Since we've joined the Horizon, we've made 1 NCAA tournament appearance and have won 1 postseason game if you include the CIT, CBI, NIT, and NCAA tournament.
Also, complaining about commuter schools and referencing the MVC is ironic. The #8 ranked Wichita State lost to Illinois State in the semi-finals, who got beat by #11 ranked Northern Iowa in the finals today. Last year Indiana State lost to Wichita State in the finals. The league isn't being propped up by Bradly, Evansville, and Drake. It's just incredibly hard to believe that there's people that are glancing at the bottom score ticker on ESPN and judging school's academic reputation on whom they play in basketball... or that there's people that see Valparaiso @ Evansville and go "damn, Valpo must be a good school if they're playing Evansville" and go "damn, Valpo must be a terrible school if they're playing 'Milwaukee.'" Or that there's a contingency of family members that would react to Valpo playing 'Wright State' one way and 'Drake' the other. I think if I told my friends Valpo was playing Drake, they'd think I was talking about a scrimmage against the Raptors. Who ARE these people that are actually judging Valpo's academics on whom they play in basketball? Parents? Friends? Cousins? If we join the MVC, what will my mother think of us playing Wichita State? I better lie to her and tell her we're playing Oral Roberts instead!
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 08, 2015, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on March 08, 2015, 01:43:16 PMit could receive an automatic birth
yikes
(http://www.laerdal.com/images/L/AAPLKKXG.jpg)
I heard it's much easier labor with an automatic birth.
The US govt classifies an
automatic birth as a new born child that receives US citizenship when born outside the US to a parent with US citizenship.
Quote from: a3uge on March 08, 2015, 08:28:58 PMIf we join the MVC, what will my mother think of us playing Wichita State?
Alright, don't bring your mother into this again. We may not see eye to eye on this, but let's all agree to leave our moms out of this conversation.
You simply don't agree or believe grouping by association exists. You have made it clear that academics have nothing to do with athletics (Even though it's student/athletes participating in these events). I'm sure the student/athlete majoring in liberal studies at CSU who ranks #646 in the nation and last in Ohio according to Forbes is putting the same effort and time into the classes as the student/athlete at #260 Valpo or even #17 Notre Dame and #91 Depauw.
I'm not trying to put anyone down but instead trying to make a point about the differences the academics make on the student/athlete. The rigor and expectations are more demanding at one school than another.
Now onto association by grouping. Imagine Duke being categorized in athletics with NJIT, Chicago St, and NC A&M. After years of being associated and grouped with those schools, would the mass be surprised by Duke's academic prestige? Maybe that's a bad example, because everyone knows of Duke. Valpo is not as recognized as Duke. So those who don't know of Valpo or live thousands of miles from Indiana may assume that because Valpo is grouped athletically with those schools they must have a lot of similarities.
If you still don't understand, try this....When people ask who is in Valpo's conference and you say Butler and Loyola do you get the same reaction or response as when you responded with #646 CSU and #598 UWM? If you get the same response with those two different answers I guess I'm wrong.
Quote from: a3uge on March 08, 2015, 08:28:58 PMWe would've been a 13 seed the year we lost to Detroit. Last year Green Bay was almost an at-large. This year the Horizon League winner will have a 12 or 13 seed in a down year, and given one more win by Green Bay or Valpo, either team could have been an at-large. I honestly don't understand the superiority complex some of our fans have. Since we've joined the Horizon, we've made 1 NCAA tournament appearance and have won 1 postseason game if you include the CIT, CBI, NIT, and NCAA tournament.
Someone said that we were only allowed one; woulda-coulda-shouldas. I used mine earlier this year when saying how close were from being undefeated in conference play after losing by 1 point in GB and in overtime in Oakland.
No superiorty complex from this fan...We have won a couple times in the HL but are no means dominant. The points i'm trying to make about our conference headed by LeCrone Nodirection or LeCrone Contenment have been made in my above post.
I understand I'm in the minority when it comes to this opinion on the HL. But was just hoping people would understand what I'm trying to point out.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 08, 2015, 10:16:23 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 08, 2015, 08:28:58 PMIf we join the MVC, what will my mother think of us playing Wichita State?
Alright, don't bring your mother into this again. We may not see eye to eye on this, but let's all agree to leave our moms out of this conversation.
You simply don't agree or believe grouping by association exists. You have made it clear that academics have nothing to do with athletics (Even though it's student/athletes participating in these events). I'm sure the student/athlete majoring in liberal studies at CSU who ranks #646 in the nation and last in Ohio according to Forbes is putting the same effort and time into the classes as the student/athlete at #260 Valpo or even #17 Notre Dame and #91 Depauw.
I'm not trying to put anyone down but instead trying to make a point about the differences the academics make on the student/athlete. The rigor and expectations are more demanding at one school than another.
Now onto association by grouping. Imagine Duke being categorized in athletics with NJIT, Chicago St, and NC A&M. After years of being associated and grouped with those schools, would the mass be surprised by Duke's academic prestige? Maybe that's a bad example, because everyone knows of Duke. Valpo is not as recognized as Duke. So those who don't know of Valpo or live thousands of miles from Indiana may assume that because Valpo is grouped athletically with those schools they must have a lot of similarities.
If you still don't understand, try this....When people ask who is in Valpo's conference and you say Butler and Loyola do you get the same reaction or response as when you responded with #646 CSU and #598 UWM? If you get the same response with those two different answers I guess I'm wrong.
We spent years with Chicago State being in our conference and it didn't impact our academic reputation. I'm not sure who this guy is that lives 1000 miles away from Indiana judging schools based on their mid major conference, but I'll say hay to this strawman if I ever meet him. I don't think I've ever been asked who plays in Valpo's conference, but if someone asked, I'd probably tell them 'UWM' if they're a friend from the Milwaukee area... they made a Sweet 16 run back in the day, maybe they remember that. Detroit-Mercy may draw some blank stares. If we were in this mythical scenario of joining the Big East, I'd probably say Butler because they made it to the finals a couple years in a row, or Georgetown, or Villanova, they've seemed to have some success playing basketball. But if we were in the MVC, I don't think my go-to answer would be 'Drake' or 'Evansville' - but maybe, I don't know, I'd pick a team a team that made the Final Four a couple years ago? Or the team that just won the conference and is ranked 11th? Or maybe 'Indiana State Larry Bird Went to School There'? Typically, if people are asking me about sports, I assume they're not cryptically asking me how decent a school Valpo is based on whom they play in basketball. You're right, I just don't agree that people make a connection between athletic conferences and academics because when it comes to mid-major sports, most people don't really care.
Do I think Oral Roberts is a crappy school because they play IUPUI and IPFW? No not really. Does anyone really care? Probably not. I think the notion that we should disassociate with Cleveland State or Wright State because we're academically superior just reaks of elitism and entitlement. Again, I think Valpo should make athletics decisions based on athletics, not based on being self-conscious about what people 1000 miles away will think about Valpo if they find out we play UIC in basketball.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 08, 2015, 10:16:23 PMNow onto association by grouping. Imagine Duke being categorized in athletics with NJIT, Chicago St, and NC A&M. After years of being associated and grouped with those schools, would the mass be surprised by Duke's academic prestige? Maybe that's a bad example, because everyone knows of Duke. Valpo is not as recognized as Duke. So those who don't know of Valpo or live thousands of miles from Indiana may assume that because Valpo is grouped athletically with those schools they must have a lot of similarities.
98% of the world I live in would never think like this and the 2% who do would have as little desire to hang with me as I would to hang with them.
Let me rephrase this in a slightly different manor. I am a very confident individual who has no concern that my association with any of the morons on this board will reflect badly on either my character or accomplishments. ;)
My apologies to the entire board but sometimes you just get a punchline gift wrapped and handed to you.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 08, 2015, 10:16:23 PMIf you still don't understand, try this....When people ask who is in Valpo's conference and you say Butler and Loyola do you get the same reaction or response as when you responded with #646 CSU and #598 UWM? If you get the same response with those two different answers I guess I'm wrong.
You are wrong. Besides that who really cares what people think if they don't care enough to know about a school like Valpo. Those that know enough about Valpo's academic reputation and athletic success are probably the kind of intelligent people I want to be friends with. I don't really care what people think who don't go to the extent of knowing about a good school such as Valpo!
I guess I'm in the minority with the guy from drake that came over and started the thread. But I gave my :twocents: regardless of private schools in the mvc, it's a better conference and I hope that we are always trying to improve ourselves and are reaching out to them.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 09, 2015, 07:07:43 AM
I guess I'm in the minority with the guy from drake that came over and started the thread. But I gave my :twocents: regardless of private schools in the mvc, it's a better conference and I hope that we are always trying to improve ourselves and are reaching out to them.
This I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.
Quote from: a3uge on March 09, 2015, 07:28:51 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 09, 2015, 07:07:43 AM
I guess I'm in the minority with the guy from drake that came over and started the thread. But I gave my :twocents: regardless of private schools in the mvc, it's a better conference and I hope that we are always trying to improve ourselves and are reaching out to them.
This I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.
Having not watched much MVC basketball outside of a few Evansville games, are you saying that the current status of our program is not equal to an Illinois State or Indiana State? I am talking about performance and not spending.
Quote from: FWalum on March 09, 2015, 08:38:21 AM
Quote from: a3uge on March 09, 2015, 07:28:51 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 09, 2015, 07:07:43 AM
I guess I'm in the minority with the guy from drake that came over and started the thread. But I gave my :twocents: regardless of private schools in the mvc, it's a better conference and I hope that we are always trying to improve ourselves and are reaching out to them.
This I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.
Having not watched much MVC basketball outside of a few Evansville games, are you saying that the current status of our program is not equal to an Illinois State or Indiana State? I am talking about performance and not spending.
Not at all - I'm saying that it may be hard to contend for a championship with Wichita State dominating the conference, and now maybe UNI. Illinois State just beat Wichita State and was rewarded with playing UNI and missed the tournament. We'd essentially need to be an at-large team. Right now we have a legitimate shot each year of making the tournament. I fear that in a top-heavy MVC we'd have a much more difficult time truly elevating the program by getting back into the tournament. When we left the Summit, we had won the league consistently and outgrew the league. I don't think you can say that about us in the Horizon. I'd just be cautious with expectations if we jumped leagues.
Quote from: a3uge on March 09, 2015, 07:28:51 AMThis I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.
Yeah, and then I'll have something else to complain about.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 09, 2015, 09:18:59 AM
Quote from: a3uge on March 09, 2015, 07:28:51 AMThis I can get behind... But be careful what you wish for. Wichita State spends twice as much as Valpo on basketball and we could be waiting years to ramp up and be contenders in that league.
Yeah, and then I'll have something else to complain about.
:p
There were three reasons for moving from the Summit to the Horizon: (i) proximity of alumni base to where the schools are located, (ii) travel costs and student-athlete travel, and (ii) more schools like us. As to (i), we have now lost Indianapolis and half of Chicago. As to (ii), we lost two of the schools most like us. Three has remained constant and is still an important reason the Horizon works. The schools we lost however were "rivals" both athletics and academics. We compete for students with those schools (and Miami of Ohio, Dayton, Illinois, Purdue and Indiana as other examples). UWGB, UWM, CSU, UIC and YSU are historic athletic foes (at least some part of the past nearly 30 years). Wright St for parts of the past 20 years. Their locations overlap with about 65% of our alumni base now that Butler/Indy is gone, but one would not consider them rivals for students or for athletes. (The Duke argument as an aside is now kind of funny when you think that in their neighborhood have been 3 schools with some of the biggest hoops scandals of the past 20 years or so -- UNC, Syracuse and NC State. The ACC has private and public schools (Wake, BC, ND, GaTech, Miami and Duke). Their strength historically was geographic proximity and traditional rivalries.)
I digress. There are 2 conferences that we could compete in immediately and have some of the attributes of why we moved to the Horizon -- the Big East and the MVC. I am not a fan of the MVC for us because it does not cover our alumni geographic footprint. Iowa, Kansas, Southern Indiana and central-southern Indiana are not the same as Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee. Many of those schools also play scholarship football. Frankly, it's where YSU should go. If STL and Creighton were in the MVC, then it may make more sense. The Big East does give us Milwaukee, Chicago, Indy and the East Coast. That's better and they are private, mostly Christian/Catholic Universities, some of which play non-scholly FB. What I am most concerned with is ending up another Summit. That was why I was opposed to Oakland. These lower-tier state schools are not with whom we should be playing or in a conference. If we add a NKU or IPFW or IUPUI then we are resigned to the old Summit. That's disappointing. If we could add a Belmont or a SLU, then maybe we save what the Horizon was. We need to step up for the stability and because the athletic department deserves better. Butler jumped to the Big East after they had lost a bunch to us so we could compete, our RPI would be better and we would have better chances at at large. At a minimum, better TV contracts and more prestige, and yes it matters when they scroll Valpo beats Providence or DePaul or Butler, especially when one of those schools has a number in front of it.
The other location is A-10. As many positives, there are a few negatives -- travel and alumni base overlap being the two biggest. But, we should schedule more of those schools -- Dayton, Davidson come to mind because we are in the same fb conference.
Bottom line is Valpo has to do what's best for Valpo. We need a strong, stable conference that meets are primary goals. The Horizon was that, but continuing on with CSU and WSU and YSU doesn't interest me. There is no commonality. I've been to those arenas many times and it gets tougher every year because our players, coaches, students and alumni deserve better. Someone complained about student attendance, would there be more enthusiasm if schools like Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, etc. came into the ARC? Or, for NKU and IPFW?
I think most people who are informed know that Valpo is a good academic school and that the Horizon League is an above average mid-major basketball conference based in the midwest. The two issues are independent. I almost never think about the two at the same time, nor is it important to me what is the academic reputation of any opponent. Why are there conferences? Would there be conferences if athletics didn't exist? Doesn't it seem the two most important issues involving what conference a school is in are:
1. Are the schools similar in athletics (especially men's basketball)
2. Are the schools in the same geographic region
Quote from: chef on March 09, 2015, 10:11:18 AM
I think most people who are informed know that Valpo is a good academic school and that the Horizon League is an above average mid-major basketball conference based in the midwest. The two issues are independent. I almost never think about the two at the same time, nor is it important to me what is the academic reputation of any opponent. Why are there conferences? Would there be conferences if athletics didn't exist? Doesn't it seem the two most important issues involving what conference a school is in are:
1. Are the schools similar in athletics (especially men's basketball)
2. Are the schools in the same geographic region
This sentiment and feeling may be true for most fans on this board, including myself. However, honestly, I also think it is a little naive to state plainly that academic and athletic considerations are entirely separated where conference affiliation is concerned, even at the D-I level. Consider the following. There is a reason why the WCC is made up entirely of private, faith based institutions. There is a reason why the Big East is all private and near all Catholic. There is a reason why the Big Ten is near all AAU. There is a reason why the A-10 is near all private, and there is a reason why the Ivy League consists the way it does. These conference configurations show clearly that there are academic and athletic considerations in play in athletic conference formation at the D-I level in some instances.
Consider this also. When Valpo moved to the HL, one of the reasons why we moved was because a more geographically compact conference meant that there would be a reduction in the amount of class time missed by the student athletes--a purely academic consideration in the context of an athletic conference discussion. Again, these issues were not necessarily independent.
For Valpo, as I have maintained for years on this board, the question becomes whether the public vs. private distinction is important to the Administration so much so that it would prefer that VU align itself with other peer like institutions when exploring athletic conference affiliation. In its D-I history, before VU moved to the HL, Valpo was conference mates with only two private schools in its history (Centenary and ORU) and was a charter member of a conference where it was the only private school for many years. HL membership provided VU with more private collegial exposure athletically for a while, which was generally inconsistent with VU's D-I conference history. It remains to be seen what happens moving forward
if another offer from another conference is extended, IMO.
Not sure where I got automatic birth from...I meant bid.
The MVC still makes the most sense. They're the most "like" us. Geographically speaking, academically, and athletically. The MVC doesn't have the big cities like the HL does but it still has Chicago, basically the whole state of Illinois, pick up much of Indiana, and the Des Moines area as well.
Yes, we lose Milwaukee, Detroit, and Ohio fanbases but we pick up just about the whole state of Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, parts of Kentucky, Missouri, and Kansas.
Obviously the best option would be the HL to pick up two like schools to us but if that doesn't happen the MVC wouldn't be a bad option at all.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 09, 2015, 10:06:31 AM
There were three reasons for moving from the Summit to the Horizon: (i) proximity of alumni base to where the schools are located, (ii) travel costs and student-athlete travel, and (ii) more schools like us. As to (i), we have now lost Indianapolis and half of Chicago. As to (ii), we lost two of the schools most like us. Three has remained constant and is still an important reason the Horizon works. The schools we lost however were "rivals" both athletics and academics. We compete for students with those schools (and Miami of Ohio, Dayton, Illinois, Purdue and Indiana as other examples). UWGB, UWM, CSU, UIC and YSU are historic athletic foes (at least some part of the past nearly 30 years). Wright St for parts of the past 20 years. Their locations overlap with about 65% of our alumni base now that Butler/Indy is gone, but one would not consider them rivals for students or for athletes. (The Duke argument as an aside is now kind of funny when you think that in their neighborhood have been 3 schools with some of the biggest hoops scandals of the past 20 years or so -- UNC, Syracuse and NC State. The ACC has private and public schools (Wake, BC, ND, GaTech, Miami and Duke). Their strength historically was geographic proximity and traditional rivalries.)
I digress. There are 2 conferences that we could compete in immediately and have some of the attributes of why we moved to the Horizon -- the Big East and the MVC. I am not a fan of the MVC for us because it does not cover our alumni geographic footprint. Iowa, Kansas, Southern Indiana and central-southern Indiana are not the same as Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee. Many of those schools also play scholarship football. Frankly, it's where YSU should go. If STL and Creighton were in the MVC, then it may make more sense. The Big East does give us Milwaukee, Chicago, Indy and the East Coast. That's better and they are private, mostly Christian/Catholic Universities, some of which play non-scholly FB. What I am most concerned with is ending up another Summit. That was why I was opposed to Oakland. These lower-tier state schools are not with whom we should be playing or in a conference. If we add a NKU or IPFW or IUPUI then we are resigned to the old Summit. That's disappointing. If we could add a Belmont or a SLU, then maybe we save what the Horizon was. We need to step up for the stability and because the athletic department deserves better. Butler jumped to the Big East after they had lost a bunch to us so we could compete, our RPI would be better and we would have better chances at at large. At a minimum, better TV contracts and more prestige, and yes it matters when they scroll Valpo beats Providence or DePaul or Butler, especially when one of those schools has a number in front of it.
The other location is A-10. As many positives, there are a few negatives -- travel and alumni base overlap being the two biggest. But, we should schedule more of those schools -- Dayton, Davidson come to mind because we are in the same fb conference.
Bottom line is Valpo has to do what's best for Valpo. We need a strong, stable conference that meets are primary goals. The Horizon was that, but continuing on with CSU and WSU and YSU doesn't interest me. There is no commonality. I've been to those arenas many times and it gets tougher every year because our players, coaches, students and alumni deserve better. Someone complained about student attendance, would there be more enthusiasm if schools like Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, etc. came into the ARC? Or, for NKU and IPFW?
Not trying to go overboard, but talking about Valpo joining the Big East might be the most delusional thing I've read on this board.
"Delusional?" Cockeyed Optimist may be? Who would have thought we'd be where we are in basketball in 1988?
Who would have thought Butler would be in the Big East a few years ago?
If you don't have aspirational goals as an organization then how do you know where you want to be?
Quote from: valpo84 on March 09, 2015, 01:14:02 PM
"Delusional?" Cockeyed Optimist may be? Who would have thought we'd be where we are in basketball in 1988?
Who would have thought Butler would be in the Big East a few years ago?
If you don't have aspirational goals as an organization then how do you know where you want to be?
Aspiring to have back to back finals appearances, over twice the athletic budget, and geographically reside in a large TV market where we're essentially the only D1 team? Yes, that would be delusional.
Quote from: a3uge on March 09, 2015, 11:53:41 AM
Quote from: valpo84 on March 09, 2015, 10:06:31 AM
There were three reasons for moving from the Summit to the Horizon: (i) proximity of alumni base to where the schools are located, (ii) travel costs and student-athlete travel, and (ii) more schools like us. As to (i), we have now lost Indianapolis and half of Chicago. As to (ii), we lost two of the schools most like us. Three has remained constant and is still an important reason the Horizon works. The schools we lost however were "rivals" both athletics and academics. We compete for students with those schools (and Miami of Ohio, Dayton, Illinois, Purdue and Indiana as other examples). UWGB, UWM, CSU, UIC and YSU are historic athletic foes (at least some part of the past nearly 30 years). Wright St for parts of the past 20 years. Their locations overlap with about 65% of our alumni base now that Butler/Indy is gone, but one would not consider them rivals for students or for athletes. (The Duke argument as an aside is now kind of funny when you think that in their neighborhood have been 3 schools with some of the biggest hoops scandals of the past 20 years or so -- UNC, Syracuse and NC State. The ACC has private and public schools (Wake, BC, ND, GaTech, Miami and Duke). Their strength historically was geographic proximity and traditional rivalries.)
I digress. There are 2 conferences that we could compete in immediately and have some of the attributes of why we moved to the Horizon -- the Big East and the MVC. I am not a fan of the MVC for us because it does not cover our alumni geographic footprint. Iowa, Kansas, Southern Indiana and central-southern Indiana are not the same as Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee. Many of those schools also play scholarship football. Frankly, it's where YSU should go. If STL and Creighton were in the MVC, then it may make more sense. The Big East does give us Milwaukee, Chicago, Indy and the East Coast. That's better and they are private, mostly Christian/Catholic Universities, some of which play non-scholly FB. What I am most concerned with is ending up another Summit. That was why I was opposed to Oakland. These lower-tier state schools are not with whom we should be playing or in a conference. If we add a NKU or IPFW or IUPUI then we are resigned to the old Summit. That's disappointing. If we could add a Belmont or a SLU, then maybe we save what the Horizon was. We need to step up for the stability and because the athletic department deserves better. Butler jumped to the Big East after they had lost a bunch to us so we could compete, our RPI would be better and we would have better chances at at large. At a minimum, better TV contracts and more prestige, and yes it matters when they scroll Valpo beats Providence or DePaul or Butler, especially when one of those schools has a number in front of it.
The other location is A-10. As many positives, there are a few negatives -- travel and alumni base overlap being the two biggest. But, we should schedule more of those schools -- Dayton, Davidson come to mind because we are in the same fb conference.
Bottom line is Valpo has to do what's best for Valpo. We need a strong, stable conference that meets are primary goals. The Horizon was that, but continuing on with CSU and WSU and YSU doesn't interest me. There is no commonality. I've been to those arenas many times and it gets tougher every year because our players, coaches, students and alumni deserve better. Someone complained about student attendance, would there be more enthusiasm if schools like Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, etc. came into the ARC? Or, for NKU and IPFW?
Not trying to go overboard, but talking about Valpo joining the Big East might be the most delusional thing I've read on this board.
I think '84's post deserves more than a short, dismissive response. I agree with '84 that we shouldn't pigeonhole our considerations strictly to the MVC. Butler certainly didn't, and they are in closer proximity to the heart of the MVC than Valpo is. Personally, I find the idea of joining the A10 kind of intriguing. I don't have time to get into it right now, but hopefully we can that thought around a little bit.
Get post, '84 - we'll articulated, out of the box...
Quote from: valpo84 on March 09, 2015, 01:14:02 PM"Delusional?" Cockeyed Optimist may be? Who would have thought we'd be where we are in basketball in 1988?
Even during the Smith years, I always thought that Valpo basketball could be in the top 1/3 of schools in Division I. Within a 3 hour drive of Valpo is quite the pool of basketball talent. I never at that time got the feeling that the administration was determined to get there. Would we be there? At that time I thought we would be decent in a great year, but not as good as we have been for 20 years now.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 09, 2015, 01:14:02 PMWho would have thought Butler would be in the Big East a few years ago?
Before two runs to the national championship game, even the most optimistic Butler fan would never have guessed Big East. Butler was in the right place at the right time - getting into the A-10 and then the changes with the Big East. Good for them. (Gosh, that was not easy to write >:( ) Before Butler there was Gonzaga. I've often wondered why that couldn't happen to Valpo after the 1998 sweet sixteen run (not critical, just wishing). With Bryce and some luck in the next few years, we could be in the same position as Northern Iowa and Wichita St.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 09, 2015, 01:14:02 PMIf you don't have aspirational goals as an organization then how do you know where you want to be?
Very true. Without goals and some forward thinking, we end up aimlessly wondering about. But I digress...
The MVC would be instant gratification. We can compete in the MVC now, would we be conference champs next season? I doubt it but there is no question we'd be very competitive.
The Big East and A 10 are better than the MVC so we need to establish ourselves a bit more, consistently be ranked, make multiple runs in the tournament. If we did those the Big East and A 10 are not out of the question. It'll take a few years before I think those conferences would be a good fit but why not in a few years.
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2015, 01:56:54 AMLet me rephrase this in a slightly different manor.
this should do nicely
(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/17/5d/5b/the-manor-home.jpg)
Quote from: VU75 on March 08, 2015, 04:53:29 PMI keep wondering if all the TV spots on the Horizon League games for Kentucky elk hunting are some kind of foreshadowing.
One of the "Corporate Sponsors" for the entire tournament is the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife... along with Progressive, the Detroit-Mercy MBA Program, Valpo School or Law, Athlon, Family Express and a few others...
Quote from: talksalot on March 09, 2015, 04:05:36 PM
Quote from: VU75 on March 08, 2015, 04:53:29 PMI keep wondering if all the TV spots on the Horizon League games for Kentucky elk hunting are some kind of foreshadowing.
One of the "Corporate Sponsors" for the entire tournament is the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife... along with Progressive, the Detroit-Mercy MBA Program, Valpo School or Law, Athlon, Family Express and a few others...
I think he might have been trying to say that Elk cast a huge shadow or Kentucky Norse hunting may be the next big thing in the HL.
I see what you did there on your Hilltop, Colonel... but let's not soar with the Eagles in roundball, too.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 09, 2015, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2015, 01:56:54 AMLet me rephrase this in a slightly different manor.
this should do nicely
(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/17/5d/5b/the-manor-home.jpg)
I think Evansville's Manor is nicer.
(http://hsgbi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DCP_4411E-1500x470.jpg)
Harlaxton Manor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlaxton_Manor)
Quote from: FWalum on March 09, 2015, 05:13:43 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 09, 2015, 03:35:32 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2015, 01:56:54 AMLet me rephrase this in a slightly different manor.
this should do nicely
(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/17/5d/5b/the-manor-home.jpg)
I think Evansville's Manor is nicer.
(http://hsgbi.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DCP_4411E-1500x470.jpg)
Harlaxton Manor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlaxton_Manor)
Oh no! I hope I didn't offend the Lord and Lady Spellwrite!! :o
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2015, 07:20:18 PMOh no! I hope I didn't offend the Lord and Lady Spellwrite!!
dibs on being the Lord
I think if we were in the Valley this year, we would finish third or fourth this year. By the eye test, Wichita St. and UNI are obviously better than Valpo. Illinois State I think is in the same quality range as Valpo. If the Valley gives Valpo an opportunity to join, I think it would be wise to accept the invitation - I was disappointed they gave the offer to Loyola. I Horizon is a cute conference and better than the Summit (or Mid-Con), but the Valley is definitely a step up.
Sure, Wichita St. spend double n their basketball program as Valpo, but they have a better product on the floor. They also draw 3 times more and are the big show in a reasonably size city.
Sometimes thinking about growth and taking a risk is not a bad thing.
I agree uscvalpo. But let's establish ourselves in the HL first like we did in the midcon. We out grew the midcon lets outgrow the HL first.
Could you guys quit putting pictures of my personal homes on here.... You are a bunch of paparazzi
Quote from: Smj on March 10, 2015, 07:44:02 AM
Could you guys quit putting pictures of my personal homes on here.... You are a bunch of paparazzi
Does that mean your wife is off limits as well?
I think we reasonably could compete for the MVC championship next season if we were in the MVC. It isn't out of the realm of possibility for this team to be ranked next season. We return everybody but Vashil, that is a big loss but only a single player. We get Lexus back along with Hammink. I'm not expecting a ton out of Smits right away, he needs to hit the weights, and everyone else gained a year of experience.
We'd easily handle the lower half of the conference, SIU, Drake, Bradley, Missouri St, Loyola. We should also be able to handle Indiana St and Evansville. We would most likely be a top 4 team, UNI loses Tuttle to graduation, that's all I really know about Wichita St and UNI, I know Van Vleet is a junior and I know nothing about the Red Birds.
The big question to me. Where is our best chance to make the NCAA every year? Is it staying in the HL, where there's no question that next season we will be the favorites to win the HL. Or is it the MVC where we will have a better shot at an at-large?
If offered the opportunity of the MVC next season. I say take it. I think our chances of making the NCAA tournament next may go down but in the long run will increase.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 09, 2015, 08:43:46 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2015, 07:20:18 PMOh no! I hope I didn't offend the Lord and Lady Spellwrite!!
dibs on being the Lord
Jim Caviezel beat you to it. Although he's willing to let you do an episode of "Person of Interest."
Did you know that Caviezel's father played college basketball at UCLA for John Wooden?
Does that mean Wooden was the Almighty's head coach? ;)
Quote from: classof2014 on March 10, 2015, 09:19:03 AM
I think we reasonably could compete for the MVC championship next season if we were in the MVC. It isn't out of the realm of possibility for this team to be ranked next season. We return everybody but Vashil, that is a big loss but only a single player. We get Lexus back along with Hammink. I'm not expecting a ton out of Smits right away, he needs to hit the weights, and everyone else gained a year of experience.
We'd easily handle the lower half of the conference, SIU, Drake, Bradley, Missouri St, Loyola. We should also be able to handle Indiana St and Evansville. We would most likely be a top 4 team, UNI loses Tuttle to graduation, that's all I really know about Wichita St and UNI, I know Van Vleet is a junior and I know nothing about the Red Birds.
The big question to me. Where is our best chance to make the NCAA every year? Is it staying in the HL, where there's no question that next season we will be the favorites to win the HL. Or is it the MVC where we will have a better shot at an at-large?
If offered the opportunity of the MVC next season. I say take it. I think our chances of making the NCAA tournament next may go down but in the long run will increase.
I'd be surprised if we aren't ranked. A few weeks ago we wer 29th in one poll and 31st in the other. While in Valpo for the semi-finals I had a chance to talk to the coaches as well as Rod Moore. rod told me that they expect a bunch from Hammink. The kid has 6% body fat, runs like a deer, can shoot the lights out and is left handed. Other than those attributes, he is a very nice kid. The big question is clearly the effect od replacing Vashil with Smits. Smits is a little bigger, won't have the shot blocking presents of Vashil, but does have a range beyond 2 feet.
Quote from: covufan on March 09, 2015, 01:50:18 PMEven during the Smith years, I always thought that Valpo basketball could be in the top 1/3 of schools in Division I.
So you are the one. The Smith era was tough but better than the Rochlitz era.
UIC has just announced that it has parted ways with Howard Moore. It will be interesting to see who they can get to replace him and whether the new coach can strengthen their program in the conference. He wasn't successful as coach at UIC, but as a person, Moore was a good guy.
Here's what I don't understand in this whole "who cares who's in our conference?" debate.
How many other conferences are just a hodgepodge? Sure, the Big 5 are all in the same boat, pretty much. But so are the schools at lower levels. Just imagine a representative school from both D2 and D3 and you immediately hit upon the general differences: D2: large state school, usually directional, never flagship, which you didn't get into, hence you're here. D3: a small liberal arts college with a good academic track record.
Here's a typical D2 conference (MIAA).
University of Central Missouri (1912)
University of Central Oklahoma (2012-13)
Emporia State University (1991)
Fort Hays State University (2006)
Lincoln University (2010)
Lindenwood University (2012-13)
Missouri Southern State University (1989)
Missouri Western State University (1989)
University of Nebraska at Kearney (2012-13)
Northeastern State University (2012-13)
Northwest Missouri State University (1912)
Pittsburg State University (1989)
Southwest Baptist University (1986)
Washburn University (1989)
Here's my undergrad's conference: the North Coast Athletic Conference (D3).
Allegheny College, Denison University, DePauw University, Hiram College, Kenyon College, Oberlin College, Ohio Wesleyan University, Wabash College, Wittenberg University, The College of Wooster, along with affiliate member Earlham College.
Now, about none of these could you plausibly sing the old Sesame St standby ("One of these things is not like the others"), unless it was that Wabash is "like SausageFest '98".
And you can't do that about the big conferences really either.
So why in the middle ALONE do we settle for these hodgepodges and pretend 'it don't matter'?
Quote from: Smj on March 10, 2015, 07:44:02 AMCould you guys quit putting pictures of my personal homes on here.... You are a bunch of paparazzi
If laporte is the the Lord I think we know who the Lady is.
HL should not add n.kentucky until they prove they can win. We don't need another 250+ rip to bring us down after we beat them. I love travel partners but it's not worth bringing another bad program in.
Maybe not now but when the HL was having success and then butler left we should have been able to get a decent program into the HL. Oakland was a good addition even though I wish they would change their scheduling procedures and would not accept questionable transfer characters.
I think Belmont stays in OVC. They realize after going to the NCAA a couple times over the last years that ticket would be more difficult in the HL. I think the same goes for us when looking at the mvc. Unless we are wanting an at large bid. But I don't think we are on that level yet.
I believe Northern Ky in transitioning to D1 hasn't been eligible for post season play until this year which has understandably hurt their recruiting. I expect them to improve over the next several years as they start bringing in better players, but it will be a while before they show they can compete anywhere near a Horizon League level.
Possibile conference realignments are an ongoing subject of discussion so I looked back and found our conversations from last March.
Quote from: classof2014 on March 10, 2015, 09:19:03 AMI think we reasonably could compete for the MVC championship next season if we were in the MVC. It isn't out of the realm of possibility for this team to be ranked next season. We return everybody but Vashil, that is a big loss but only a single player.
With this team, this year, the MVC could have been in pursuit of us. All of the conference members would already be be watching our games and waiting for their chances. That doesn't mean that we would have emerged as the regular or the tournament champs but we would now be in the top mix of every conversation. So lets not slip up at ISU or here with MSU.
Has anybody been watching the Conference-USA free-fall? They have a lower OOC winning % than the Horizon and are rated 4 or 5 slots weaker by everybody. How long will UAB, Western Kentucky, UTEP and some of the others tolerate this? Are they an organization that might splinter or explode? If so might this create some opportunities?
the bottom 6 teams in the CUSA are 4-34 against D1.
the bottom 5 teams in the HL are 3-24 against D1.
the bottom 5 teams in the OVC are 5-32 against D1.
the bottom 5 teams in the Northeast are 5-40 against D1
compare that to the
Summit... only their bottom 2 teams have losing records, Nebr-Omaha 3-4 and IUPUI at 2-6
Colonial... only Drexel has a losing record, 1-5
As the numbers suggest, the bottom half of the Horizon League is awful. The bottom 3 or 4 are so bad they would be anchors in any low major conference in the country.
As I've said many times, the answer to elevating the conference's profile lies not in adding a couple of hopefully better programs, so long as the league's losing programs continue to woefully underperform. That would be like a business adding new, better performing employees to hopefully offset the damage being caused by a workforce full of slackers. That move by itself would never yield a positive result.
What's the head to head between HL and Summit?
I know we beat our only summit league opponent, IPFW.
Quote from: justducky on December 06, 2015, 09:27:50 PM
Possibile conference realignments are an ongoing subject of discussion so I looked back and found our conversations from last March.
Quote from: classof2014 on March 10, 2015, 09:19:03 AMI think we reasonably could compete for the MVC championship next season if we were in the MVC. It isn't out of the realm of possibility for this team to be ranked next season. We return everybody but Vashil, that is a big loss but only a single player.
With this team, this year, the MVC could have been in pursuit of us. All of the conference members would already be be watching our games and waiting for their chances. That doesn't mean that we would have emerged as the regular or the tournament champs but we would now be in the top mix of every conversation. So lets not slip up at ISU or here with MSU.
Has anybody been watching the Conference-USA free-fall? They have a lower OOC winning % than the Horizon and are rated 4 or 5 slots weaker by everybody. How long will UAB, Western Kentucky, UTEP and some of the others tolerate this? Are they an organization that might splinter or explode? If so might this create some opportunities?
How long? For as long as the football money continues to roll in.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 07, 2015, 07:30:29 AM
What's the head to head between HL and Summit?
I know we beat our only summit league opponent, IPFW.
Now that statsheet.com has been taken offline, I'm not aware of another site that tracks things like this. In fact, if anyone knows of another good stats website, would you kindly post it? Thanks!
The HL site does have each team's results on page two of their stat's page
to answer the question... we are 3-3
Cleveland State - Lost to South Dakota State 77-66
Detroit - Lost at Oral Roberts 100-95
UIC - Lost at Western Illinois 84-57
Milwaukee - Beat Denver 71-58
Valpo - Beat IPFW 78-64
Wright State - Beat South Dakota 77-69
Youngstown State - not played anyone
Green Bay - not played anyone
No Kentucky - not played anyone
Oakland - not played anyone
From the Summit side:
IUPUI - not played any HL team
Nebr-Omaha - not played any HL team
North Dakota State - not played any HL team
===================================
Against MAC Schools... we are 3-9
Cleveland State: Lost to Akron, Toledo, Kent State
Green Bay: Beat Akron, Lost to Toledo
Milwaukee: Beat Central Michigan
Oakland: Beat Eastern Michigan
Valpo: Lost to Ball State
Wright State: Lost at Northern Illinois
Youngstown State: Lost to Kent State, Toledo, Bowling Green
============================
Against MVC:...so far...
Oakland - lost to Southern Illinois
UIC - Lost to Drake
Quote from: wh on December 07, 2015, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 07, 2015, 07:30:29 AM
What's the head to head between HL and Summit?
I know we beat our only summit league opponent, IPFW.
Now that statsheet.com has been taken offline, I'm not aware of another site that tracks things like this. In fact, if anyone knows of another good stats website, would you kindly post it? Thanks!
For generic statistical purposes, I'm not sure. bbstate.com looks pretty good, but is behind a pretty strict paywall (and, did they get rid of their rankings? or are they just behind the paywall now?).
For the specific question of HL records, the league does keep track of this stuff. They publish it in the weekly releases
http://hln.s3.amazonaws.com/sports/releases/2/release.pdf (http://hln.s3.amazonaws.com/sports/releases/2/release.pdf)
(page 5 in this release, from last week)
For the summit, the league has 6 scheduled games, 3-2 so far.
SUMMIT (6/3-2)
Nov. 13 Wright State 77, South Dakota 69
Nov. 13 Milwaukee 71, Denver 58
Nov. 13 Valparaiso 78, IPFW 64
Nov. 17 Western Illinois 84, UIC 57
Nov. 28 Oral Roberts 100, Detroit 95
Dec. 17 South Dakota at Milwaukee
(Funny to see Chicago State in the WAC! And UMKC for that matter.)
And, from John's post, I see that the weekly release is a bit out of sync, missing the Nov 25 SD State vs. CSU game. It was part of a tournament, maybe the opponent wasn't known in advance?
or the embarrassment of that loss was too much for the HLN folks... :)
yes, it was at the Riviera Mayan Division of the Cancun Challenge game two...Rider played Houston Baptist in the other round-2 game.
Quote from: talksalot on December 07, 2015, 01:53:04 PM
or the embarrassment of that loss was too much for the HLN folks... :)
I've not checked in with the Summit this season, but some of the directional Dakota type schools have had good seasons, right? Wouldn't _have_ to be an embarrassing loss.
Quote from: agibson on December 07, 2015, 04:38:13 PM
Quote from: talksalot on December 07, 2015, 01:53:04 PM
or the embarrassment of that loss was too much for the HLN folks... :)
I've not checked in with the Summit this season, but some of the directional Dakota type schools have had good seasons, right? Wouldn't _have_ to be an embarrassing loss.
Right now I would think the Summit would be feeling embarrassed if they lost to a Horizon team. In the Sagarin's, The Horizon is raked 19th while the summit is 16th. They have two teams with losing D1 records, Omaha at 3-4 and IUPUI at 2-6. IUPUI is their lowest ranked team at 233, while the Horizon has two in the 300's. NKU at 306 and UIC at 336! Without Valpo (ranked 42nd today), the Horizon would be god awful.
One of the biggest issues with the Horizon has been its OOC scheduling. Simply put, teams in the Horizon are over-scheduling. Oral Roberts has the lowest SOS in the Summit at 115. The Horizon has 4 teams lower than that - Valpo (48), Detroit (13), CSU (10), and NKU (110). The Horizon is 5th in projected OOC SOS. The Summit is 31st. The MAC is at 27th. I can't advocate having horrific schedules like the MAC last year (as the ceiling seed will always be a 12), but there's way too many teams finishing below .500 in the Horizon. Oakland finished below .500 last year, and they were a top 5 team in the league last year. That's just completely unacceptable.
The other big issue with the Horizon has been coaching talent, as WH alluded to. Howard Moore and Jerry Slocum have been dragging the Horizon down for years. Fortunately, Moore is gone, but YSU still is content with having a horrible basketball team. NKU probably has the most promising coach (outside of Bryce Drew), but Brannen is a couple years out from making them respectable. Maybe Darner will be a good coach with UWGB, but they're in rebuilding mode right now. The rest of the league has some pretty stagnant coaching without much tournament experience.
Quote from: a3uge on December 07, 2015, 08:12:43 PMOne of the biggest issues with the Horizon has been its OOC scheduling. Simply put, teams in the Horizon are over-scheduling.
Yeeees but, Oakland's over-scheduling might yet pay some dividends. They look to just now look be rounding into shape and will add Martez Walker shortly at semester break. If Kampe can control this bunch off the floor and Felder can control them on it then look out because they could still do some OOC damage.
Ok I will agree that YSU should not be finishing out their OOC schedule with games at Michigan, Notre Dame, and Purdue so I propose we swap with them for 3 of our remaining non-conference contests. I mean surely it was some kind of honest mistake that led those 3 schools to pick a bottom 35 preseason team over a willing preseason top 35 alternative!
UIC does look awful, and NKU as well, but some of the others could shortly start turning things around. At least that is my hope.
Quote from: justducky on December 07, 2015, 09:44:43 PM
Quote from: a3uge on December 07, 2015, 08:12:43 PMOne of the biggest issues with the Horizon has been its OOC scheduling. Simply put, teams in the Horizon are over-scheduling.
Yeeees but, Oakland's over-scheduling might yet pay some dividends. They look to just now look be rounding into shape and will add Martez Walker shortly at semester break. If Kampe can control this bunch off the floor and Felder can control them on it then look out because they could still do some OOC damage.
Ok I will agree that YSU should not be finishing out their OOC schedule with games at Michigan, Notre Dame, and Purdue so I propose we swap with them for 3 of our remaining non-conference contests. I mean surely it was some kind of honest mistake that led those 3 schools to pick a bottom 35 preseason team over a willing preseason top 35 alternative!
UIC does look awful, and NKU as well, but some of the others could shortly start turning things around. At least that is my hope.
Oakland was down with under 10 min to go against Binghamton tonight. They don't have a win against teams that are above .500 so I think it remains to be seen if they're rounding into shape.
Quote from: a3uge on December 07, 2015, 10:41:00 PMOakland was down with under 10 min to go against Binghamton tonight.
Yes I watched it too and what I fear from Oakland is when they decided to take control of the game it was quickly over.
Quote from: a3uge on December 07, 2015, 10:41:00 PMThey don't have a win against teams that are above .500 so I think it remains to be seen if they're rounding into shape.
Maybe but with that many new talents it could take some time. Kampe is also playing a deeper than normal bench before Walker even suits up. My biggest fear is that everything for them will finally come perfectly together just in time for the Horizon League season but add no significant victories from OOC. That would be very Kampe-like and would reward the rest of the HL with the worst of both worlds.
WSU lost to Xavier by 35. :thumbsup:
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 08, 2015, 09:57:33 PM
WSU lost to Xavier by 35. :thumbsup:
The bottom half of the league is now 3-25 against D-1 opponents. Has it ever been this bad?
Watched on FS1 and for the first 5 minutes thought WSU was gonna be a real problem for us in terms of match ups. BUT.... They wound up not being able to spit in the ocean all game. Their best guard had 4 fouls in the first half. Xavier was legit. Excellent crowd in Cinncy for a midweek game too.
Does anyone know if Oregon or Oregon St. paid us to play them? Xavier paid WSU last night $90K. Everyone knows about Oakland and prostitution ways.......Looking at our schedule, I don't think we are getting a pay day anywhere???
Lewis and Grady transfer out of CSU... They would have been REALLY good this year.
Paris Bass with a 7 game suspension... Probably costs at least a few wins for them.
Wardle taking another job in the off season... I think their new coach is going to be really good, but the 1st year in a new system is always hard.
I think we take care of Ball State if we are fully healthy...
Adding NKU in a complete rebuilding year instead of waiting until they proved they could have success.
Things happen. Just need to do the best we can and hope next year will be better. NKU and UIC have good recruiting classes coming in. CSU is usually pretty consistent and should be better next year. The top teams from this year should still be pretty successful next year. I think WSU is pretty young this year? Hopefully this is more of an anomaly and not a downward trend. We shall see.
This shows conference wins and loses against rpi teams.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference/breakdown/2015/HORIZ/horizon-league (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference/breakdown/2015/HORIZ/horizon-league)
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 09, 2015, 09:41:16 AMhttp://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference/breakdown/2015/HORIZ/horizon-league
Nice summary. On a related noted, somebody passed me a link to an ESPN page showing Valpo's "team sheet". Something similar to the team sheets Whelliston's site (bbstate.com) used to have available, maybe still does behind the paywall, that replicated the sheets used in the NCAA selection process.
Focusing on wins and losses against the top X RPI, the A-B RPI, etc.
Anybody know the link path at ESPN to get to those? Their redesigned website somewhat befuddles me.
Full ESPN RPI Rankings (Click a team for their "team sheet"): http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi)
Direct link to Valpo team sheet: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/teamId/2674 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/teamId/2674)
Quote from: ValpoHoops on December 09, 2015, 10:17:18 AM
Full ESPN RPI Rankings (Click a team for their "team sheet"): http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi)
Direct link to Valpo team sheet: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/teamId/2674 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/teamId/2674)
Thanks! And I see now that it is linked from their "rankings" page.
Some of it looks a little unfamiliar. Maybe the RPI ranges they show are more top-heavy than the NCAA version?
I don't remember scoring margin, and this "Non-Conf. RPI" seems confusing (maybe that's just the first term, your W/L, in the non-conf? otherwise how can it be 72 when our RPI is 2?).
But a nice format, in any case.
bbstate's version might still sometimes be available at
http://bbstate.com/teams/VALP/sheet (http://bbstate.com/teams/VALP/sheet)
but the whole site seems to be down at the moment.
http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article48764335.html (http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article48764335.html)
Interesting article on Wichita State
Quote from: IndyValpo on December 10, 2015, 01:36:39 PMhttp://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article48764335.html (http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article48764335.html) Interesting article on Wichita State
From the above article:
When Bardo looks at his university, he sees more in common with former MVC members suchs as Louisville, Memphis, Houston and Cincinnati than he does with Indiana State and Northern Iowa. When he looks at his city, he sees a situation much different from Terre Haute and or Cedar Falls.
Maybe he sees more in common with cities like Milwaukee, Cleveland, Detroit, Green Bay, Dayton. Come on over!
Based on UWM's and Oakland's recent successes going into January, it looks to me that there will be a battle among VU and those guys for the HL regular season title. The tourney is another story being in Detroit.
Am I being too cautious?
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 26, 2015, 06:50:09 PM
Based on UWM's and Oakland's recent successes going into January, it looks to me that there will be a battle among VU and those guys for the HL regular season title. The tourney is another story being in Detroit.
Am I being too cautious?
We'll know a little more after @Belmont, and a lot more after @Oakland (January 8, ESPN2). I'll begin to feel more comfortable after Milwaukee and Oakland drop a couple each in league, if we manage to avoid doing the same.
But, I'm sure I'll continue to feel pretty uneasy until we mathematically clinch a #1 or #2 seed, and again until we win the tournament.
Maybe I'll have to try to catch the Oakaland @ Virginia game Wednesday (ESPNU) - this Felder guy could be fun to watch, and I'm afraid he'll steal all of the individual attention from Alec. (But will continue to allow Alec and others to be seen by plenty of NBA scouts.)
Maybe I've drank too much Valpo kool aid, but I think our team is just too big too athletic too deep and too damn good defensively to be beat in our league. Oakland could maybe steal a game because Felder is that good but I wouldn't be concerned yet.
Felder will probably get better at his game because he's not going to be the focal point of every HL team's defense now. With the transfer that recently started playing for Oakand, coaches now have to change game plans from keeping the top defender on Felder to shut down Oakland to defending every passing lane between these two.
I recently heard a radio interview with King Kampe on WJR, Detroit just prior to their MSU game. The Coach is very excited about the HL tourney being in Detroit and thinks it will be a big advantage to his team both in fan support and recruiting. He likes the idea of his team sort of being the "Home" team. Surprise, surprise!
Quote from: valpo64 on December 27, 2015, 10:25:25 AMI recently heard a radio interview with King Kampe on WJR, Detroit just prior to their MSU game. The Coach is very excited about the HL tourney being in Detroit and thinks it will be a big advantage to his team both in fan support and recruiting. He likes the idea of his team sort of being the "Home" team. Surprise, surprise!
I hate this. Probably as much as the HL hated the tourney being played in Valpo almost every year. big advantage to the Detroit schools on the court and in recruiting. Valpo needs to take a stand.
This is the same league that thought it was too big of an advantage to have Valpo's student section in the same location as they play every conference game. The Horizon is a joke.
The HL sold its top program down the river in moving the tournament to the crime ridden backyard of 2 programs that have done nothing to earn the advantage. Does anyone believe that this move would have been made if Butler was still in the league? Not a chance - unless it was moved to a "neutral" site in Indy.
Quote from: wh on December 27, 2015, 01:44:42 PMThe HL sold its top program down the river in moving the tournament to the crime ridden backyard of 2 programs that have done nothing to earn the advantage. Does anyone believe that this move would have been made if Butler was still in the league? Not a chance - unless it was moved to a "neutral" site in Indy.
Well said. I hope our administration is unhappy and voiced it strongly. I hope our fans show up in Detroit with banners! I hope we play in STL instead of Detroit one day.
Quote from: valpo64 on December 27, 2015, 10:25:25 AM
I recently heard a radio interview with King Kampe on WJR, Detroit just prior to their MSU game. The Coach is very excited about the HL tourney being in Detroit and thinks it will be a big advantage to his team both in fan support and recruiting. He likes the idea of his team sort of being the "Home" team. Surprise, surprise!
Having listened to the podcast of this interview, I think we can put this in the category of "Imaginary radio".
I hate hate hate when I see stupid stuff happen in the world. Having the tournament in Detroit is. .... duh - stupid. Just saw a game at Detroit and the stands were empty. I think having any horizon league game away is going to be empty. (Unless they have a "home" team playing.) Sell tickets and make money for the program by letting the leader host. ..
(Revised to add this thought. ... They should have the tournament in Qatar. That would make it legit - nothing fishy about that location and it would be neutral.)
Go Valpo!
Were you listening to imaginary radio, valpo64?
Quatar as Horizon host is a good idea. As you say, a neutral court with no advantage to any teams.
Don't overlook that Quatar showed themselves great hosts when they accepted our GitMo detainees without complaint. From what I hear Quatar also watched out closely for those guys to make sure none got into any more trouble.....or not.
While we are at it, we should make Sepp Blatter commissioner of the Horizon League.
espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14448274/the-floor-winners-losers-nonconference-schedule
The Horizon League
Valparaiso beat Oregon State and Rhode Island (true road game). UW-Milwaukee has wins over Wisconsin and Minnesota. Kahlil "The Hypnotist (he puts defenses to sleep)" Felder (37 points) and Oakland gave Michigan State fits in Detroit last week. Plus, Felder scored 38 points in Oakland's 97-83 win at Washington on Dec. 19.
Besides the tournament being hosted in Detroit and the two RPI anchors (NKU & YSU), the HL isn't that bad.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 31, 2015, 10:25:45 AMthe two RPI anchors (NKU & YSU),
I believe you mean 3 anchors... adding UIC
Quote from: talksalot on December 31, 2015, 10:31:56 AM
I believe you mean 3 anchors... adding UIC
Do we need a UIC watch, like last year's Penguin-watch?
Looks like about a dozen winless* (*D1) teams left in the country.
You'd think they have a shot at picking up one, at least, when YSU or NKY visit Chicago.
Cant they make it to the bottom in RPI first? (Currently 346 of 351. Looks like they've been at least as low as 348 - it'd be no surprise if they had already been at 351 at some point this season.)
Quote from: agibson on December 31, 2015, 10:38:19 AMLooks like about a dozen winless* (*D1) teams left in the country.
What great company... School, Record and NolanRPI...
Northwestern State 0 6 262
Grambling 0 9 264
Coppin State 0 13 283
Northern Arizona 0 9 291
McNeese State 0 7 314
Prairie View A&M 0 12 320
Delaware State 0 13 322
Mississippi Valley State 0 14 329 (has yet to play a home game)
Alcorn State 0 9 332
Southeastern Louisiana 0 11 345
Illinois-Chicago 0 9 346
Liberty 0 12 351
Even Liberty playing Notre Dame didn't get them out of the basement.
Quote from: talksalot on December 31, 2015, 11:53:42 AMMississippi Valley State 0 14 329 (has yet to play a home game)
I'd noticed that they were one of the ones with no wins of any sort, who couldn't afford to pay a non-D1 to come and lose. But, I'd failed to notice that they hadn't even played a home game.
It's a tough life in the SWAC, MEAC, and the like. I don't know if they'd be better off as non-D1's, or not.
Not sure UIC has nearly the excuses that they do.
Quote from: agibson on December 31, 2015, 12:03:27 PMNot sure UIC has nearly the excuses that they do.
UIC has yet to play anyone in the top 100... 0-4 in the 101-200 range and 0-5 against teams 251+
MVSU is 0-4 against top 50-100 teams (BYU, Evansville, Northwestern and Hawaii) , and 0-4 in the 101-200 range and 0-6 against teams 251+
MVSU has certainly travelled a lot!... there's the recruitment pitch!!
@ Nebraska
@ Air Force
@ Grand Canyon
@ New Mexico State
@ BYU
@ Seattle
@ Tennessee Tech
@ Duquesne
@ NC Central
@ Evansville
@ Northwestern
@ Hawaii !
@ North Texas
Quote from: talksalot on December 31, 2015, 01:27:06 PMthere's the recruitment pitch!!
Spend long days, during the holidays, on bus trips! Or, if you're lucky, flying coach!