Time to get down to brass tacks.
The Usyou should know the us by now or you're on the wrong board
The Not Us(http://s30.postimg.org/fgd6eo0vl/Screen_Shot_2015_03_15_at_10_47_38_PM.png)
SIBMIHHAT is "should i be mad if he hits a three?", of course. courtesy mgoblog. %Min is the percent of the team's minutes played, while %Poss is percent of possessions used.
further (http://mgoblog.com/content/preview-maryland-0#more (http://mgoblog.com/content/preview-maryland-0#more)):
QuoteMaryland's attack is highlighted by a couple of attacking guards. Melo Trimble has been one of the most impressive freshmen in the conference. A proficient outside shooter, Trimble gets most of his production attacking the basket—his free throw rate is over 72%, and he hits 87% of his freebies. Dez Wells, the team's lead guard, is a more selective—and more efficient—three-point shooter who also gets to the line frequently. Both are solid, not spectacular, at distributing the ball without turning it over.
Richaud Pack regained his starting role this month after briefly losing it to Jared Nickens. Like Trimble and Wells, Pack gets to the line often; unlike those two, he doesn't do much else to get the offense going, shooting 33% on both twos and threes in Big Ten play. Nickens, who rotates into the lineup frequently, is almost exclusively a three-point shooter—he hits 40% of his attempts from beyond the arc.
Stretch four Jake Layman is the third option, and a quality one at that. As you can see, he's an effective scorer from pretty much anywhere:
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8640/16663145521_7617ed4f61.jpg)
Layman is also a very good defensive rebounder and decent shot-blocker. He'll see a good number of his minutes at center, where Damonte Dodd—a more traditional five—starts but plays reserve-level minutes.
The team's most-utilized reserve is a familiar face: Evan Smotrycz, the former Wolverine. His game hasn't changed much, and he's really struggling from the field this season—he's shot 38% from two and 26% from three in B1G play.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25109293/ncaa-tournament-odds-and-lines-for-the-first-four-round-of-64 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25109293/ncaa-tournament-odds-and-lines-for-the-first-four-round-of-64)
Vegas Insider has Maryland as 4.5 point favorites, the second closest spread at the 12 seed line and lower (Buffalo-WVU interestingly the only closer, at 4). Not bad!
Quote from: drewsaders11 on March 15, 2015, 10:09:06 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25109293/ncaa-tournament-odds-and-lines-for-the-first-four-round-of-64 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25109293/ncaa-tournament-odds-and-lines-for-the-first-four-round-of-64)
Vegas Insider has Maryland as 4.5 point favorites, the second closest spread at the 12 seed line and lower (Buffalo-WVU interestingly the only closer, at 4). Not bad!
Not bad!
Realtimerpi's computer predictor actually makes us two point _favorites_. That may be based on the erroneous assumption that we're 7-0 (actually we're 5-0) on neutral courts, while Maryland's only 3-1.
But, hey. They've lost on a neutral court. They've lost to teams with RPI's worse than ours. We can do this.
Anyone remember the case of Dez Wells departure from Xavier that ultimately sent him to Maryland?
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2014/04/24/dez-wells-xavier-settle-lawsuit/8111709/ (http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/xavier/2014/04/24/dez-wells-xavier-settle-lawsuit/8111709/)
Initial thoughts on the game:
1. We can't win if Tevonn is not at full strength. With their guards, his quickness is a must have.
2. Speaking of health, Darien needs to not let the face mask (if he has to wear one) effect his offensive output.
3. Peters can't play like he did in the HL championship game. He must drain open looks.
4. Looks like Maryland and Green Bay require similar game plans. Only problem is that Maryland has more guys that can hit outside shots. I still think we pack it in like we did against Green Bay and force them to shoot from the outside.
5. I have a feeling we are going to have to score over 70 points to win. This is something we have not accomplished in a while.
I will be going to this game, so we can't lose ;):
Valpo 67
Maryland 63
Valparaiso surprised by nearby matchup with Maryland
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-st-0316-20150315-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-st-0316-20150315-story.html)
Someone on their forum definitely knows their Valpo history lol:
Valpo can suck it. Every member of the Drew family can suck it. Lubos Barton can suck it. 1999, bitches.
Dean, you're my favorite OWG. Good thread.
Comparison of Team Stats (Offensive):
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/compare?t1-season=2014-2015&t1=valparaiso&t2=maryland (http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/compare?t1-season=2014-2015&t1=valparaiso&t2=maryland)
Comparison of Team Stats (Defensive):
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/compare?t1-season=2014-2015&t1-type=3&t1=valparaiso&t2-type=3&t2=maryland (http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/compare?t1-season=2014-2015&t1-type=3&t1=valparaiso&t2-type=3&t2=maryland)
ESPN Men's Basketball - Checking out all 68 teams in the field:
Valparaiso Crusaders (49): The Horizon League previews all dwelled on Green Bay star Keifer Sykes; little did we know the league's best player was just about to break out. Valpo sophomore Alec Peters is, for lack of a better term, a mini Frank Kaminsky -- a 6-foot-9 forward who rebounds, doesn't commit turnovers and shoots 50 percent from 2, 46 percent from 3 and 86 percent from the line. Throw in elite back-line defense from center Vashil Fernandez, and coach Bryce Drew, Patron Saint of March, might just have some fresh magic in store.
Maryland Terrapins (16): Fence-sitters beware. Maryland is divisive, and what side of that divide you fall on depends almost entirely on whether you agree with the following statement: Some teams just know how to win close games. If you agree, you'll assert that Maryland deserves all of the credit for its 11-1 record in close games, and those wins are purely a function of skill. If you disagree, you'd reply that, as a matter of statistical probability, even the very best teams tend to lose four out of 10 single-possession games. You'd note that no 14-4 major-conference team in the past four seasons has posted nearly as low an efficiency margin as the 2014-15 Terps). You would call Maryland lucky, and it would sound like an insult. The best answer may lie somewhere in the middle. Maryland may not be as good as its record, but guards Melo Trimble and Dez Wells are getting to the free throw line, and luck is the last thing on the defense's mind.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12482305/a-first-look-every-team-2015-ncaa-tournament-basketball-field?ex_cid=espnTWe. (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12482305/a-first-look-every-team-2015-ncaa-tournament-basketball-field?ex_cid=espnTWe.)
What's the cheapest ticket going for
Valpo 54, MD 52.
Dick Vitale tries to kiss Ginger Zee after the game and gets nowhere.
Quote from: valpotx on March 16, 2015, 01:36:30 AM
Someone on their forum definitely knows their Valpo history lol:
Valpo can suck it. Every member of the Drew family can suck it. Lubos Barton can suck it. 1999, bitches.
Dean, you're my favorite OWG. Good thread.
Before he puts this game down as a Terp win he ought to step back and count to two............ONE Mississippi........TWO M(ississippi)aryland ;)
I'm not in Vegas, so I am not betting, but if I were, I'd take Maryland with 4.5 any day of the week, month or year. It won't be that close, and I say this as a Valpo grad and fan. I do, however, think we will keep it reasonably close (i.e., within 12).
Quote from: atkins on March 16, 2015, 09:27:03 AM
I'm not in Vegas, so I am not betting, but if I were, I'd take Maryland with 4.5 any day of the week, month or year. It won't be that close, and I say this as a Valpo grad and fan. I do, however, think we will keep it reasonably close (i.e., within 12).
Shocked!
This I can say with great certainty, this will not be a high scoring game. Both team's strengths are defense, Maryland ranks 36th in defensive efficiency (behind our 31st rank). Their other strength is getting to the line. Surprisingly we're pretty good at not letting teams get to the line on us (especially if you take out Oakland Pt. 1)
Defensively they are built very similarly to us. They don't force a ton of turnovers (something we're actually better than them at!), they block a solid amount of shots, and they don't let you get easy baskets. This is actually one of the worst defenses at stealing the ball (ranked 321) which is good because the majority of our turnovers are on steals. They allow 31.2% from three (40th in the country), 44.6% from two (64th) and get a block 11.6% of the possessions (77th). That's all pretty good and they are the top defense in a very defensive B1G. I'm looking for Alec to be fairly swallowed (he'll get his 10) and Darien, Jubril, and Skara will need to step up. I don't want Tevonn, Keith or EVic to force anything against their guards.
Offensively they are a little rough, especially in conference season. They've scored 70+ points only twice since February. Melo Trimble is clearly their top player. He gets to the line an insane 7 times a game and yet still shoots 4.5 threes a game. He can drive, he can shoot, he's last year's version of LeVonte Dority. He's also a pretty good passer. But at 6'3" he shouldn't be a problem for a healthy Tevonn or a combination of Darien and EVic. And if he gets around any of them, Vashil just needs to remember to keep his arms up and don't try to swat at the ball. Dez Wells takes a ton of shots (hits a decent amount of them) but he only plays about 25 minutes. When he's out there, be alert. And I don't think Bryce is going to be able to hide Alec defensively. Jered Nickens is a pick and pop 6'7" forward. He's taken 4 times as many threes as twos. Alec will have to be out on the wings to guard him and I see a lot of running through screens in his future. Jake Layman, their other forward, at 6'9", can take and make a few threes as well. I wouldn't be surprised if they have him out on the wings to keep Vashil out of the lane and keep the hoop clear for their guards. It'll be an interesting night for our defense, we've not played someone quite like this. I think the closest we've come is Milwaukee, but they have another guard and both are better than McWhorter. Plus their bigs are better than Tiby.
Schedule: In the OOC season they played 4 Top 100 KPom Teams, with wins over Arizona St., Oklahoma St., and Iowa St. and a loss to Virginia. These are all very good wins over tournament teams. Outside of that it's a who's who of CIT, CBI and bottom dwellers. Sounds familiar doesn't it? I think we could have pulled off a 10-3 record with an upset over one of those top 100 teams with this schedule. We would have been no worse than 9-4. That's how to throw together a top 100 OOC schedule without losing games. (take out our bottom 4 RPI games and replace them with the above 4 listed as losses we're 21-9 with a 52 RPI and a 125 SoS.)
Prediction: Call me a homer but I think we pull this off, 62-60. Alec hits a three with about 3 minutes to go to put us up, we build a little cushion and then hold a late charge and FT game at the end to win.
If VU wins, the final score will be 70-69.
Valpo wins by 20. Book it.
Quote from: Kyle321n on March 16, 2015, 11:47:13 AMMelo Trimble is clearly their top player. He gets to the line an insane 7 times a game and yet still shoots 4.5 threes a game. He can drive, he can shoot, he's last year's version of LeVonte Dority. He's also a pretty good passer. But at 6'3" he shouldn't be a problem for a healthy Tevonn or a combination of Darien and EVic. And if he gets around any of them, Vashil just needs to remember to keep his arms up and don't try to swat at the ball. Dez Wells takes a ton of shots (hits a decent amount of them) but he only plays about 25 minutes. When he's out there, be alert. And I don't think Bryce is going to be able to hide Alec defensively. Jered Nickens is a pick and pop 6'7" forward. He's taken 4 times as many threes as twos. Alec will have to be out on the wings to guard him and I see a lot of running through screens in his future. Jake Layman, their other forward, at 6'9", can take and make a few threes as well. I wouldn't be surprised if they have him out on the wings to keep Vashil out of the lane and keep the hoop clear for their guards. It'll be an interesting night for our defense, we've not played someone quite like this. I think the closest we've come is Milwaukee, but they have another guard and both are better than McWhorter. Plus their bigs are better than Tiby.
This will be a lot different than what we have seen in the HL. They are going to spread the floor and make us guard the perimeter. I don't think we will be able to run the "pack it in" defense that we have been running. Maryland will move the bigs away from the basket and then drive and kick or dump.
I think the initial game plan should be to pack it in. Force them to hit shots. They're not the worlds greatest 3-point shooting team. They're not Green Bay bad but very few teams are that poor at shooting. If we get Maryland to play our game then we have a terrific shot at winning. We've been able to do that the past 3 games, CSU and GB both played our game and we won. I think the most apparent was the second half of the championship game Green Bay was lost.
Both teams calling card is defense. It could come down to who takes care of the ball more and hits their 3s. Scoring inside will be very difficult on both sides. Offensively it'll depend on who plays better in transition and who is able to hit their open looks.
No offense to Maryland but they aren't the eight best team in the country.
This is the year Valpo makes the journey back to the Sweet 16!
You know what scares me? E. Victor trying to handle the ball against their fast guards. That could get ugly.
Having KC back has helped EVN considerably, we have two players who can run the offense and each have different styles. Very hard to defend that. If EVN struggles we turn to KC.
The past few games though EVN has been fantastic running the point against some of the best defenses in the Horizon.
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 16, 2015, 12:54:13 PMYou know what scares me? E. Victor trying to handle the ball against their fast guards. That could get ugly.
I think that is the opportunity they will hand us. They will cover us tight outside and invite everybody to beat them off the dribble. I hope that EVN, Keith, Darien and Tevonn are working on their runners and pull up jumpers! So if they hand us lemons we will need a recipe for lemonade. Maybe some back door stuff will be there if our ball handlers can deliver the passes?
Quote from: truth219 on March 16, 2015, 06:25:37 AMWhat's the cheapest ticket going for
I scoured around the various sites...
All of the teams are the same... $100/ticket (WVA says $76 for their students... IF available)
MD and UBuff are seeding their tickets by the amount of money you donated. Looks like all of the schools received about 300 tickets.
Ticketmaster is the official vendor at Nationwide... and they are showing some nosebleed tickets for $76 + fees... I didn't get that far into it to see what that totals...
http://www.ticketmaster.com/2015-ncaa-div-i-mens-basketball-columbus-ohio-03-20-2015/event/05004E339DDF25A2?artistid=1239566&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7&tm_link=venue_msg-0_05004E339DDF25A2 (http://www.ticketmaster.com/2015-ncaa-div-i-mens-basketball-columbus-ohio-03-20-2015/event/05004E339DDF25A2?artistid=1239566&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7&tm_link=venue_msg-0_05004E339DDF25A2)
from the WVA website...on tickets:
Gold Scholar and above members of the Mountaineer Athletic Club may request two tickets beginning at 9 a.m. Monday, March 16 by calling 1-800-WVU GAME. Ticket requests must be placed by 5 p.m. on Monday.
Ticket requests are not guaranteed and will be filled based on availability and Mountaineer Athletic Club annual giving level and priority points rank. Donors will be notified via email of the status of their ticket request no later than 7 p.m. on Monday, March 16.
A limited number of tickets will be made available to WVU students at 3 p.m. Monday, March 16, at the Mountaineer Ticket Office in the WVU Coliseum. WVU students with a valid student I.D. may purchase one ticket to Friday's game on a first-come, first-serve basis at the Mountaineer Ticket Office. Student tickets are $76 each and must be purchased in-person Monday.
Tickets are available for the West Virginia session only. All tickets purchased through the Mountaineer Ticket Office will be distributed at the West Virginia will call window beginning two hours before the Mountaineers' session at Nationwide Arena. The will call window is located in the southwest corner of the arena at the intersection of Nationwide Boulevard and McConnell Boulevard.
Hmm, Valpo ticket office said they'd call me back, but hasn't called yet. Took my credit card info and everything. If we somehow can't get tickets were just going to scalp - shouldn't be too bad since its the later of the first session.
All of the other schools are "taking orders"... and contacting people ~~after 7pm~~ on their ticket order request. Just hope some big donor didn't request 20 tickets... :)
I can't find anyone to take the ride down there, don't really want to ride the Valpo bus.
try posting to the Valpo Men's Basketball facebook page? Or there is the greyhound from Broadway Cafe to the Ohio State University Student Union...
https://www.greyhound.com/farefinder/step2.aspx?SessionId=d91078d4-5215-4723-b6f7-a121a6b77e12 (https://www.greyhound.com/farefinder/step2.aspx?SessionId=d91078d4-5215-4723-b6f7-a121a6b77e12)
$99 one way...but if it's on time... it might work!
I can drive, lol...
If you haven't taken that trip before... here are the easiest directions.
US 30 to Fort Wayne
North on I-69 to I-469 around the city to US-30 east again. One traffic light right after you get on US-30... next light is 2.5 hours later in "Waldo" Ohio... all 65-70 MPH with nice clean rest areas.
Stay on US 30 all the way to Upper "Jake Diebler Home Town" Sandusky and then, stay on US-23 right into Columbus...when you get to I-270 go one-exit west (about 1/4 mile), then south on Ohio-315 (high-speed limited access hwy) to the Arena District...
There are other ways that may be a little shorter... but I make this trip 5 or 6 times per year to visit my daughter who works at OSU so I have found a few shortcuts.
Quote from: talksalot on March 16, 2015, 01:47:44 PMTicketmaster is the official vendor at Nationwide... and they are showing some nosebleed tickets for $76 + fees... I didn't get that far into it to see what that totals...
http://www.ticketmaster.com/2015-ncaa-div-i-mens-basketball-columbus-ohio-03-20-2015/event/05004E339DDF25A2?artistid=1239566&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7&tm_link=venue_msg-0_05004E339DDF25A2 (http://www.ticketmaster.com/2015-ncaa-div-i-mens-basketball-columbus-ohio-03-20-2015/event/05004E339DDF25A2?artistid=1239566&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7&tm_link=venue_msg-0_05004E339DDF25A2)
They might actually be $76. I see $66.00 face value + $10.90 in fees = $76.90.
But, I didn't actually buy them.
It does seem a bit light in terms of what I'd expect from Ticketmaster fees. Maybe an additional charge would jump on at the last minute, in the last phase of purchase.
Groupon was advertising ticket specials for CBus and Pitt last week. Remember the session is 2 games -- WVa/Buffalo and Valpo/MD.
Quote from: agibson on March 16, 2015, 02:39:35 PM
Quote from: talksalot on March 16, 2015, 01:47:44 PMTicketmaster is the official vendor at Nationwide... and they are showing some nosebleed tickets for $76 + fees... I didn't get that far into it to see what that totals...
http://www.ticketmaster.com/2015-ncaa-div-i-mens-basketball-columbus-ohio-03-20-2015/event/05004E339DDF25A2?artistid=1239566&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7&tm_link=venue_msg-0_05004E339DDF25A2 (http://www.ticketmaster.com/2015-ncaa-div-i-mens-basketball-columbus-ohio-03-20-2015/event/05004E339DDF25A2?artistid=1239566&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7&tm_link=venue_msg-0_05004E339DDF25A2)
They might actually be $76. I see $66.00 face value + $10.90 in fees = $76.90.
But, I didn't actually buy them.
It does seem a bit light in terms of what I'd expect from Ticketmaster fees. Maybe an additional charge would jump on at the last minute, in the last phase of purchase.
Quote from: talksalot on March 16, 2015, 01:47:44 PM
Quote from: truth219 on March 16, 2015, 06:25:37 AMWhat's the cheapest ticket going for
I scoured around the various sites...
All of the teams are the same... $100/ticket (WVA says $76 for their students... IF available)
MD and UBuff are seeding their tickets by the amount of money you donated. Looks like all of the schools received about 300 tickets.
Ticketmaster is the official vendor at Nationwide... and they are showing some nosebleed tickets for $76 + fees... I didn't get that far into it to see what that totals...
http://www.ticketmaster.com/2015-ncaa-div-i-mens-basketball-columbus-ohio-03-20-2015/event/05004E339DDF25A2?artistid=1239566&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7&tm_link=venue_msg-0_05004E339DDF25A2 (http://www.ticketmaster.com/2015-ncaa-div-i-mens-basketball-columbus-ohio-03-20-2015/event/05004E339DDF25A2?artistid=1239566&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=7&tm_link=venue_msg-0_05004E339DDF25A2)
Buying tickets straight from the venue is 99% of the time a bad idea. For this, I would call the Valpo box office. If you want multiple sessions, or want different seats, I'd use either Stubhub or Seatgeek.com. Seatgeek you can see tickets from various sites (incl fees) and it'll tell you if its a good deal or not.
Quote from: talksalot on March 16, 2015, 02:16:52 PM
If you haven't taken that trip before... here are the easiest directions.
US 30 to Fort Wayne
North on I-69 to I-469 around the city to US-30 east again. One traffic light right after you get on US-30... next light is 2.5 hours later in "Waldo" Ohio... all 65-70 MPH with nice clean rest areas.
Stay on US 30 all the way to Upper "Jake Diebler Home Town" Sandusky and then, stay on US-23 right into Columbus...when you get to I-270 go one-exit west (about 1/4 mile), then south on Ohio-315 (high-speed limited access hwy) to the Arena District...
There are other ways that may be a little shorter... but I make this trip 5 or 6 times per year to visit my daughter who works at OSU so I have found a few shortcuts.
That is a good route, Talksalot. Just one quick note. They are reconstructing the US-23/I-270/OH-315 interchange and depending on the time of day, traffic there can get a little crazy. If you are coming into Columbus via US-23 South, you can by-pass that interchange by turning left (east) on OH-750, which is also known as Polaris Parkway. You can take this east to I-71 South, which you can take all the way downtown, then just follow the signs to Nationwide Arena.
The other good route is taking the IN Tollroad across Northern Indiana and through Ohio to I-75. Then take I-75 South to OH-15 south which will turn into US-23 south and then the directions are the same as above. This route is all interstate (70 mph) or restricted access highway (65 mph) all the way until you get about 30-40 miles outside of Columbus. Downside is that a portion of it is toll. I have EZPASS so I don't remember exactly how much it is, but I want to say about $6-$7 total, one way.
I personally would not recommend the I-65 S to I-70 E route. In my experience it takes much longer since you have to navigate Indianapolis and I-70 in western Ohio is quite honestly a pain.
Per Oren,
Tevonn is practicing at full speed and Darien did not break his nose just really swollen. No mask will be needed.
Good news on both fronts.
Thanks for the heads-up about the construction... I was really looking for a "Where's Waldo" comment...
OK... just to show off a little, but the route I usually take is... US-30 east of VanWert/Delphos to "Thayer Road", south through 3 stop signs then left on Ohio 117... bypasses Lima traffic... 117 to Huntsville (stopping at the Trolley for a burger) to US-33- East near Bellefontaine (Bell-Fountain is the pronunciation) and then 270-south to 70 east to 3rd street north...
That route is about 3/10 of a mile shorter than US-30 to VanWert, south on US-127 to Mercer, then left on US-33. Watch the intersection at St. Mary's... stay on US-33 to Columbus. Note: There are no decent eateries within eye-shot on this route between VanWert and Dublin.
And looking at SeatGeek, the tickets are at least $130 each. If I purchase a ticket I'm going through the main site the NCAA uses which is TicketMaster. I'll save myself $50-$60 to sit one section higher up.
Quote from: valpo4life on March 16, 2015, 03:04:59 PM
And looking at SeatGeek, the tickets are at least $130 each. If I purchase a ticket I'm going through the main site the NCAA uses which is TicketMaster. I'll save myself $50-$60 to sit one section higher up.
Wow, the tickets were much more reasonable this morning, had a 10th row behind basket (chair section) for $118. Looking at Ticketmaster though, the only seats they have left is behind the basket, last three rows, which are probably terrible. Seatgeek and stub hub aren't much better. I'd really contact Valpo and try to get the $100 tickets. I'm sure they're near club level like last time.
Just called the ticket office to get tickets. They said they've been taking orders, but don't know how many they've taken. And will call back within 24 hours to notify me if I have tickets or not. Like what?!?
Quote from: valpo4life on March 16, 2015, 03:30:09 PM
Just called the ticket office to get tickets. They said they've been taking orders, but don't know how many they've taken. And will call back within 24 hours to notify me if I have tickets or not. Like what?!?
Yeah that's what all of us are getting too. If they happen to sell more than 300, they'll probably end up having to draw for some. I'd honestly just try to scalp before tip if you don't get in, the tickets will be cheap since its after the first game. They told me they didn't anticipate selling out, probably because they didn't last time around.
I like Lunardi's Tournament preview video for Valpo. It's essentially "Valpo's good, I'm not going to say they won't pull an upset; I just don't know."
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12492726 (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12492726)
And the Maryland video has that tinge of "F--- it, whoever makes the S16's gonna lose to Kentucky anyway."
Maybe there in Columbus we can benefit from some mid-major crowd-love after Buffalo beats WVU.
Quote from: Donjon VU07 on March 16, 2015, 03:56:09 PM
I like Lunardi's Tournament preview video for Valpo. It's essentially "Valpo's good, I'm not going to say they won't pull an upset; I just don't know."
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12492726 (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=12492726)
And the Maryland video has that tinge of "F--- it, whoever makes the S16's gonna lose to Kentucky anyway."
Maybe there in Columbus we can benefit from some mid-major crowd-love after Buffalo beats WVU.
Man, ending Kentucky's perfect season is going to be awesome!
dangit, talksalot, there goes my contribution as an alumnus of Ohio Wesleyan.
well done though.
Quote from: vurich on March 16, 2015, 02:51:23 PMI personally would not recommend the I-65 S to I-70 E route. In my experience it takes much longer since you have to navigate Indianapolis and I-70 in eastern Ohio is quite honestly a pain.
If you are passing through Indy from midmorning to noon on Friday I don't think you will run into much traffic. I would go through downtown if before 4 p.m. eastern. The northeast corner of I-465 (at intersection of I-69) can get pretty tight at rush hour but you should be in Columbus by then anyway.
Quote from: bbtds on March 16, 2015, 04:16:18 PMnd I-70 in eastern Ohio is quite honestly a pain.
and if you're in eastern Ohio you certainly don't need these directions... you need tickets to the Pittsburgh site...
[silently correcting in my head]...
Quote from: talksalot on March 16, 2015, 04:49:36 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 16, 2015, 04:16:18 PMnd I-70 in eastern Ohio is quite honestly a pain.
and if you're in eastern Ohio you certainly don't need these directions... you need tickets to the Pittsburgh site...
[silently correcting in my head]...
Excellent catch! I've corrected that. LOL. That's what I get for trying to type on my phone. The ol' fingers got ahead of my brain.
Hope this hasn't been posted yet as I don't have the time to check. In any event, Paul Oren tweeted that Tevonn practiced at full speed today for the first time since the tourney. Also, Darian did not break his nose, just a bad bruise, and won't have to wear a mask for the game. Both very good news with several days till game time.
There are obviously multiple keys to the game, but one keeps coming back to mind.
It's time for Peters to be the horse we know he can be, to show the country. If he's going to get some of the press and attention of Doug McDermott, it starts Friday evening. He has a good matchup in Layman, even if they won't always be on one another.
It doesn't need to be a "freshman year vs. Evansville" kind of game, just solid. Your winners have to win their match ups and lead the way.
As I read all the stuff and see a little video on Maryland I'm thinking back to 2013 and what they lacked against a BIG opponent. To me, our biggest difference is in our guards. Erik was very quick, but slight. Dority was strong but short. Bogan was a good shooter but slow. I could go on. We were undersized, relatively slow and lacked muscle.
Enter this years team. Just looking at guys like T and D Walker and you see both speed and muscle. Much more BIG like. Then throw in a freak guard like T and a speedy sure handed Keith and we have the personnel at the guard spots to compete.
As others have said, the key to a win will be Alec and Vashil, as well as Jabril and David. If they can control the boards and make some shots we can definitely be in this game.
Good point. We have to keep them off the line. They don't miss much, and Vashil in foul trouble...that would not be fun.
I feel really good about this for some reason. Maybe it's colored by the fact that my first-born son is on the way, but I think this is happening.
Quote from: vu72 on March 16, 2015, 08:36:23 PM
As I read all the stuff and see a little video on Maryland I'm thinking back to 2013 and what they lacked against a BIG opponent. To me, our biggest difference is in our guards. Erik was very quick, but slight. Dority was strong but short. Bogan was a good shooter but slow. I could go on. We were undersized, relatively slow and lacked muscle.
Enter this years team. Just looking at guys like T and D Walker and you see both speed and muscle. Much more BIG like. Then throw in a freak guard like T and a speedy sure handed Keith and we have the personnel at the guard spots to compete.
As others have said, the key to a win will be Alec and Vashil, as well as Jabril and David. If they can control the boards and make some shots we can definitely be in this game.
To be fair, Buggs gave Michigan State fits all game and really attacked Michigan State. Payne and Nix destroyed us down low and Rowdy couldn't shoot.
I still worry about our ability to score enough points, as Maryland will get theirs and probably score some in transition with their athletic guards. Alec will need to hit the shots he wasn't hitting in the championship game. Maryland's not going to go 13 minutes with only 1 FG. Darmyian Walker may also need to be at the top of his game to provide relief for Alec. I can see Maryland blowing us out and reading annoying posts on how we can't beat power conference schools and whining that we're not Butler. But I can also see someone stepping up and having a great game to give an inexperienced and already disappointed and possibly unfocused Maryland fits.
Quote from: a3uge on March 16, 2015, 09:22:08 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 16, 2015, 08:36:23 PM
As I read all the stuff and see a little video on Maryland I'm thinking back to 2013 and what they lacked against a BIG opponent. To me, our biggest difference is in our guards. Erik was very quick, but slight. Dority was strong but short. Bogan was a good shooter but slow. I could go on. We were undersized, relatively slow and lacked muscle.
Enter this years team. Just looking at guys like T and D Walker and you see both speed and muscle. Much more BIG like. Then throw in a freak guard like T and a speedy sure handed Keith and we have the personnel at the guard spots to compete.
As others have said, the key to a win will be Alec and Vashil, as well as Jabril and David. If they can control the boards and make some shots we can definitely be in this game.
To be fair, Buggs gave Michigan State fits all game and really attacked Michigan State. Payne and Nix destroyed us down low and Rowdy couldn't shoot.
I still worry about our ability to score enough points, as Maryland will get theirs and probably score some in transition with their athletic guards. Alec will need to hit the shots he wasn't hitting in the championship game. Maryland's not going to go 13 minutes with only 1 FG. Darmyian Walker may also need to be at the top of his game to provide relief for Alec. I can see Maryland blowing us out and reading annoying posts on how we can't beat power conference schools and whining that we're not Butler. But I can also see someone stepping up and having a great game to give an inexperienced and already disappointed and possibly unfocused Maryland fits.
Delanie*
Valpo should hold the rebounding edge, Maryland isn't very good on either glass, while Valpo had one of the best rebounding margins in the country. If we can get second chance buckets and buckets in transition that will help us greatly.
As others have mentioned, Alec can't go 3-13, I think he knows that. He's incredibly smart, if the shot isn't there, there are usually better options. I would love to see a 30ish point performance but more realistically going 5-9 for 15-20 points would be fantastic as well. I don't want anybody to adjust their style of game, if that happened I guarantee a loss. Play our game and we'll keep it close and can pull off the upset.
As far as matchups go, this isn't a bad one. Maryland isn't all that big, they don't force turnovers, aren't great on the glass, not a big 3-point shooting team, don't have a standout post player, and their star player is a guard. This is a tough game, this is a good measuring stick to see how good this team really is. Knock off Maryland, then this team is a top 25 team.
This game has upset written all over it.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 16, 2015, 08:13:19 PMIt doesn't need to be a "freshman year vs. Evansville" kind of game, just solid.
There sure was a fire in Alec's eye in the second half that night at the Ford Center in Evansville.
Alec probably has had quite a few "come to Jesus" moments in his life already. He could use the "time to enter the promised land" speech now! Yes, even Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a fine animal and was praised by the multitudes.
Talkin' Daniel in the den of the lions
Talkin' Jonah in the belly of a whale
Talkin' three Hebrew children
And they're standing in a furnace, fiery furnace
But the fire didn't burn them, and the lions didn't bite
And the Lord reached down and you can be sure that
Everything turned out right
Oh you'll meet the Lord in the furnace
A long time before you meet Him in the sky
And where you are ain't where you wish that you was
Well your life ain't easy and the road is rough
But where you are is where He promised to be
From the ends of the world to every point of need
You gotta have faith my friends
Quote from: truth219 on March 17, 2015, 06:31:43 AM
Talkin' Daniel in the den of the lions
Talkin' Jonah in the belly of a whale
Talkin' three Hebrew children
And they're standing in a furnace, fiery furnace
But the fire didn't burn them, and the lions didn't bite
And the Lord reached down and you can be sure that
Everything turned out right
Oh you'll meet the Lord in the furnace
A long time before you meet Him in the sky
And where you are ain't where you wish that you was
Well your life ain't easy and the road is rough
But where you are is where He promised to be
From the ends of the world to every point of need
You gotta have faith my friends
Oh but I
Need some time off
From that emotion
Time to pick my heart up off the floor
Oh, and that love comes down
Without devotion
Well it takes a strong man baby
But I'm showing you the door
March is a month without mercy for rabid basketball fans. There is no such thing as a 'gentleman gambler' when the Big Dance rolls around. All sheep will be fleeced, all fools will be punished severely... There are no Rules when the deal goes down in the final weeks of March. Even your good friends will turn into monsters.
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
Quote from: vu72 on March 16, 2015, 08:36:23 PM
As I read all the stuff and see a little video on Maryland I'm thinking back to 2013 and what they lacked against a BIG opponent. To me, our biggest difference is in our guards. Erik was very quick, but slight. Dority was strong but short. Bogan was a good shooter but slow. I could go on. We were undersized, relatively slow and lacked muscle.
Enter this years team. Just looking at guys like T and D Walker and you see both speed and muscle. Much more BIG like. Then throw in a freak guard like T and a speedy sure handed Keith and we have the personnel at the guard spots to compete.
As others have said, the key to a win will be Alec and Vashil, as well as Jabril and David. If they can control the boards and make some shots we can definitely be in this game.
I hope Bryce uses the 5-on-6 tactic Homer used in practices. Homer started using that drill following the Arizona year in order to handle quickness. It definitely helped in the following years. If the team is rotating 5-on-6 in practice and are able to spread the floor a bit, it will bode well against the bigger programs.
This game is a big measuring stick for the league. If Valpo can compete with Maryland and hold a guy like Trimble to a subpar game, then the HL is better than what people may think. Is Sykes really a star player, if Trimble struggles against Valpo, I'll have to say yes but if Trimble has a terrific game and is difficult for us to stop than Sykes may just be a star mid-major player who would get eaten alive if he were in the B1G. How good is Valpo defensively? Hold Maryland under 60, then I'd have to see we're great defensively, hold them to under 70 we're pretty good.
This is an incredibly interesting game not just for the Crusaders but for the Horizon League as a whole. I'm hoping the game is still undecided with 5 minutes to go. Compete with these guys and not have it be decided by half.
This is the HL's best chance at winning a game in the tournament in quite a while. Since the 10/11 season. Hopefully we can make some cash for the Horizon!
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/17/4a5cca589aa1e4dd25a72dd8b069fb31.jpg)
Quote from: classof2014 on March 17, 2015, 09:33:53 AMThis is an incredibly interesting game not just for the Crusaders but for the Horizon League as a whole. I'm hoping the game is still undecided with 5 minutes to go. Compete with these guys and not have it be decided by half.
Thinking back to hazy Mid-Con memories. Didn't we _usually_ compete for a while? Were the games really over already at half time?
Seems like it was the second half where the big dogs tended to build a lead and put us away.
Quote from: agibson on March 17, 2015, 09:54:55 AM
Quote from: classof2014 on March 17, 2015, 09:33:53 AMThis is an incredibly interesting game not just for the Crusaders but for the Horizon League as a whole. I'm hoping the game is still undecided with 5 minutes to go. Compete with these guys and not have it be decided by half.
Thinking back to hazy Mid-Con memories. Didn't we _usually_ compete for a while? Were the games really over already at half time?
Seems like it was the second half where the big dogs tended to build a lead and put us away.
Goal: Nick Davidson doesn't play at all.
Perhaps Chadwick and Davidson see the floor because we're up by 22 with 3 minutes to go? ;D
I was literally posting "New Goal: Davidson plays the final 5 minutes because we're up by 25"
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 16, 2015, 08:13:19 PM
There are obviously multiple keys to the game, but one keeps coming back to mind.
It's time for Peters to be the horse we know he can be, to show the country. If he's going to get some of the press and attention of Doug McDermott, it starts Friday evening. He has a good matchup in Layman, even if they won't always be on one another.
It doesn't need to be a "freshman year vs. Evansville" kind of game, just solid. Your winners have to win their match ups and lead the way.
Trying to find comparables from the Horizon is difficult. Layman mat be similar to Anton Grady(6'8" 225). Trimble maybe to Trey Lewis (similar size) and Dez Wells to Juwan Howard or maybe Paris Bass? Trimble is only 175 lbs. Layman only goes 205 and Wells at 215. Clearly these guys are not the typical BIG muscular type guys but rather great shooters and extremely quick.
The other two starters against Michigan State were Pack at 6'3", 185 and Dodd at 6'9" 240. Overall we could match up--actually be bigger then the Terps which certainly was not the case against Michigan State two years ago.
There was a piece in the NY Times yesterday about height, KY's height, and height if anything being _under_ appreciated in college basketball.
It listed Maryland as one of the other really tall teams in the tournament. I guess I'm not seeing it?
I think they were using Ken Pom's effective height (comparing height by position?) as one metric.
Quote from: agibson on March 17, 2015, 10:22:25 AM
There was a piece in the NY Times yesterday about height, KY's height, and height if anything being _under_ appreciated in college basketball.
It listed Maryland as one of the other really tall teams in the tournament. I guess I'm not seeing it?
I think they were using Ken Pom's effective height (comparing height by position?) as one metric.
They do have seven guys 6'9" or taller. However most aren't part of their regular rotation.
I think we have a real shot at Maryland. This is a good matchup for us, if we play well. We all know too well our history of playing teams from the bigger conferences, but this is not the same team as in Nov/early Dec. I don't think Alec needs to have a great game, just an efficient one - 20 points on 12 shots kind of game. Everyone will need to find 5-10 minutes where they are at their best, especially when others are a little down or forcing shots. Our advantage is our rebounding - keep them off the offensive boards and get a couple of extra offensive boards ourselves. We need to be even in TOs and Fouls. If the game gets into the 70s, we could be in trouble. I think we need to keep the game in the mid 60s, and we need to be efficient with our possessions.
The thing that scares me about this team is their ability to win close games. If we build a lead, we need to keep it.
Valpo 67
UMd 63
Their average height is 78.6".
Quote from: vu72 on March 17, 2015, 10:24:14 AM
Quote from: agibson on March 17, 2015, 10:22:25 AM
There was a piece in the NY Times yesterday about height, KY's height, and height if anything being _under_ appreciated in college basketball.
It listed Maryland as one of the other really tall teams in the tournament. I guess I'm not seeing it?
I think they were using Ken Pom's effective height (comparing height by position?) as one metric.
They do have seven guys 6'9" or taller. However most aren't part of their regular rotation.
What would you consider part of a regular rotation? I think if you get 10-12 minutes a game and play every game I'd say you're part of the rotation. That leaves an 8 man rotation that averages 79" tall (6'7"). I would say that's pretty tall. It's not like it's all one guy (tho Damonte Dodd, 7'1" doesn't hurt with 14.8 mpg in the last 10) since they have 5 guys who are 79" or taller in this rotation.
If I counted correctly we were 11-3 in games decided by 2 or fewer possessions at the end of regulation.
Both teams did a fantastic job winning close games. There's a reason why both teams won 27 and 28 games. They're both good. Good teams win close games.
Maryland fans are dismissing us fairly easily. Interestingly enough, they point to their lone opponent who we also played--Oakland. They won that game at THEIR place, by 16, but were only up 6 with 6 left in the first half and actually were outscored in the second by 2. Oakland shot 8 free throws and Maryland 16. Can you say.."home cookin"??
Oakland out rebounded them 35-32.
I'm feeling better about our chances.
Quote from: Kyle321n on March 17, 2015, 10:41:12 AMWhat would you consider part of a regular rotation? I think if you get 10-12 minutes a game and play every game I'd say you're part of the rotation. That leaves an 8 man rotation that averages 79" tall (6'7"). I would say that's pretty tall. It's not like it's all one guy (tho Damonte Dodd, 7'1" doesn't hurt with 14.8 mpg in the last 10) since they have 5 guys who are 79" or taller in this rotation.
Fair enough. I should have said that overall they aren't any bigger then us. We will be 4 inches taller in the staritng lineup and while they used four guys off the bench in their last game, they averaged 9 minutes per guy. Those guys, 6'9", 6'6", 7' amd 6'4", matchup pretty well with our three off the bench in Jubril at 6'7", Skara at 6'8" and Keith at 6'1" I'm not concerned about being out rebounded by these guys.
Quote from: vu72 on March 17, 2015, 11:49:39 AM
Maryland fans are dismissing us fairly easily.
I love the "it'll never happen to us" attitude fans of big schools have. Its like they've never watched the tournament before.
Edit: actually on their board most people think it'll be a close game, and some wouldn't be surprised by a loss. They seem to be concerned with our length. They seem pretty reasonable. Much better than that weird Michigan State board.
Anybody know what referee crew will be working the game?
As with any basketball game, how close the game is called will make a difference. Since they like to get the the line, I think we are going to want a "let them play" type of game.
Quote from: a3uge on March 17, 2015, 11:59:09 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 17, 2015, 11:49:39 AM
Maryland fans are dismissing us fairly easily.
I love the "it'll never happen to us" attitude fans of big schools have. Its like they've never watched the tournament before.
Edit: actually on their board most people think it'll be a close game, and some wouldn't be surprised by a loss. They seem to be concerned with our length. They seem pretty reasonable. Much better than that weird Michigan State board.
Count this UMD fan as one that thinks we have a real shot.
I jokingly told my family that we would be matched up with Maryland last week and more than one family member said that we would upset them. Maryland isn't terribly impressive and can be down right frustrating for letting inferior teams stick around instead of putting them away.
I do wonder what offense we will see Friday. Early season offense when we score 70-80 a game or late season offense of 50-60 a game. Changing up our style and tempo of play may catch Maryland off guard but it would be a pretty big risk.
My guess is we'll be as close to 100% healthy as we've been all year. EVN looks fantastic, KC looks recovered, Tevonn is practicing at 100% speed and Darien is didn't break his nose. Definitely seems like we're playing the best basketball of the season at the right time.
I have faith that Bryce will pull all the right strings to give us the win. He's outcoached both Waters and Wardle in the last 3 games when they mattered most. I know nothing of the Turgeon guy, never really heard of him till we drew Maryland. Before I can consider Bryce as one of the best coaches in the country he has to win a few in the tournament.
If we're all that interested in height, does someone with time on their hands want to weight average height of each team by minutes played? That way we could take into account playing time of their big guys who spend most of the game on the bench.
Never mind, I went ahead and did it myself.
Average height, weighted by minutes played on the season, a summation of player height in inches * minutes played, then divided by total team minutes:
Maryland Terrapins: 78.56" or 6' 6.56".
Valparaiso Crusaders: 77.66" or 6' 5.66".
Our number may be slightly misrepresentative given that Keith Carter (6-1) missed significant time and E (6-8) wound up taking more minutes than expected. I imagine we'll see 10 or so more minutes of Keith Friday than we will E., even though season statistics show that they played almost even minutes (630 KC vs. 613 EVN).
Their number may be skewed for other reasons. Eyeballing it, they played thirteen players on the year, although lets hope we see no more than eight on Friday.
Quote from: vu72 on March 17, 2015, 10:15:50 AM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 16, 2015, 08:13:19 PM
There are obviously multiple keys to the game, but one keeps coming back to mind.
It's time for Peters to be the horse we know he can be, to show the country. If he's going to get some of the press and attention of Doug McDermott, it starts Friday evening. He has a good matchup in Layman, even if they won't always be on one another.
It doesn't need to be a "freshman year vs. Evansville" kind of game, just solid. Your winners have to win their match ups and lead the way.
Trying to find comparables from the Horizon is difficult. Layman mat be similar to Anton Grady(6'8" 225). Trimble maybe to Trey Lewis (similar size) and Dez Wells to Juwan Howard or maybe Paris Bass? Trimble is only 175 lbs. Layman only goes 205 and Wells at 215. Clearly these guys are not the typical BIG muscular type guys but rather great shooters and extremely quick.
The other two starters against Michigan State were Pack at 6'3", 185 and Dodd at 6'9" 240. Overall we could match up--actually be bigger then the Terps which certainly was not the case against Michigan State two years ago.
You mat be correct, mat be not! Mat or door I don't think we'll come out baaaa! ;)
Turgeon is a Kansas guy, therefore I would expect Maryland to play a style consistent with the traditional Kansas style. Tough man-to-man defense, try to dominate the boards, prefer inside-outside offense, look for secondary break open shots. I am not that familiar with Maryland, but it seems everyone who comes through Kansas has more or less followed this style.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 17, 2015, 08:27:19 PM
Turgeon is a Kansas guy, therefore I would expect Maryland to play a style consistent with the traditional Kansas style. Tough man-to-man defense, try to dominate the boards, prefer inside-outside offense, look for secondary break open shots. I am not that familiar with Maryland, but it seems everyone who comes through Kansas has more or less followed this style.
So uh does that mean losing way earlier than they should?
I really would like to pick Valpo and I do think that the Crusaders will keep it close through out most of the game. OTOH, Valpo has been prone to give up 10+ point leads in games. Maryland may have a small lead at half then Valpo may bounce back to take the lead by 2-3 points but eventually the Terrapins will win it by 7.
Valpo 62
Maryland 69
Quote
Crusaders to Depart for NCAA Tournament at 10am Wednesday Morning
Tuesday, March 17, 2015
Join the send-off from the Athletics-Recreation Center on Wednesday morning, as the Valparaiso men's basketball team departs for Columbus and the 2015 NCAA Tournament at 10 a.m! All are invited to help wish the Crusaders luck as they prepare to take on Maryland Friday afternoon at 3:45 p.m. CT, live on TNT.
Not so much notice. I'd begun to think they were leaving Thursday.
I wish I'd grabbed my notes for my 10:30 class!
After rewatching the 1998 miracle game, has anyone else noticed the similarities to this year? Ole Miss had an excellent player named Keith Carter and we also had Jaime Sykes (as opposed to Keifer). I don't know if it means anything, but is kinda déjà vu.
Just can't pick VU on this one. Maryland has beaten Wisconsin, Iowa State, and MSU --twice. Oren has Maryland by 12. I hope it's that close. And I hope my prediction is dead wrong.
VU 44
Maryland 65
Paul
That's pretty rough. How about Maryland 66 Valpo 57. Been tough to score much lately.
Quote from: classof2014 on March 16, 2015, 09:27:16 PMValpo should hold the rebounding edge, Maryland isn't very good on either glass, while Valpo had one of the best rebounding margins in the country.
Lets be honest here, rebounding against Michigan State, Wisconsin and Purdue is a little different than Youngstown State, UIC and Wright State.
A little more detail on the send-off tomorrow. (e.g. it's outside, not in the gym or something)
Quote
Fans, come to the ARC Wednesday morning and help send off your Valpo men's basketball team as they depart for the NCAA Tournament!
The players will leave from the front of the ARC at approximately 10 a.m. on Wednesday, and all are invited to gather and help wish the team luck as they depart for Columbus.
If everything goes right then VU by 3. If everything goes wrong then Maryland by 15.
Did they have to hire an extra bus so they could get every last one of those different Walker boys to Columbus? Hope they don't forget any of them! ;)
Have my tickets all lined up for our game. Since I am coming all the way from TX, we can't lose, correct? ;)
I'll be in Columbus on Friday also but I'll be driving myself.
Go Valpo!
I'll be there to. My wife is making us shirts. 209 row h...better than not being there. Made a mix tape for the drive.
Quote from: justducky on March 17, 2015, 11:19:01 PMDid they have to hire an extra bus so they could get every last one of those different Walker boys to Columbus? Hope they don't forget any of them! ;)
No extra bus but I heard that they were picking up Derrik Smits Walker and his cousin, San Francisco-Golden Gates-Will-I-attend Valpo-Smits in Boone County. 8-)
Wasn't able to convince anyone in the office pool to select Valpo against MD. Thought I'd get a couple to at least humor me. As one colleague told me, "You couldn't beat the worst Mizzou team in history, so how can you stay on the court with Maryland?" I think he's wrong, but he's got a valid point.
Quote from: atkins on March 18, 2015, 09:44:32 PM
Wasn't able to convince anyone in the office pool to select Valpo against MD. Thought I'd get a couple to at least humor me. As one colleague told me, "You couldn't beat the worst Mizzou team in history, so how can you stay on the court with Maryland?" I think he's wrong, but he's got a valid point.
OK, try, "very young team", or, "it was our first road game and our players didn't know each other" or... :crazy: Think of something!
Quote from: atkins on March 18, 2015, 09:44:32 PMWasn't able to convince anyone in the office pool to select Valpo against MD. Thought I'd get a couple to at least humor me. As one colleague told me, "You couldn't beat the worst Mizzou team in history, so how can you stay on the court with Maryland?" I think he's wrong, but he's got a valid point.
90% of the brackets on Yahoo so far tonight have picked Maryland. I thought a few more bracket-pickers would pick Valpo.
100% for Kentucky over Hampton.
Quote from: historyman on March 18, 2015, 09:58:54 PM90% of the brackets on Yahoo so far tonight have picked Maryland. I thought a few more bracket-pickers would pick Valpo.
100% for Kentucky over Hampton.
On ESPN it's 14% for Valpo.
An, I suppose in the event that Maryland gets that far, 5% pick Maryland over Kentucky! (11% take ND over KY, if it comes to that; or 16% Duke over KY)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAcY-iFUIAAnKy_.png)
Alright guys!!!
Quote from: vu72 on March 18, 2015, 09:55:20 PM
Quote from: atkins on March 18, 2015, 09:44:32 PM
Wasn't able to convince anyone in the office pool to select Valpo against MD. Thought I'd get a couple to at least humor me. As one colleague told me, "You couldn't beat the worst Mizzou team in history, so how can you stay on the court with Maryland?" I think he's wrong, but he's got a valid point.
OK, try, "very young team", or, "it was our first road game and our players didn't know each other" or... :crazy: Think of something!
Why do we have to have excuses for being better later in the season? Many teams learn to play better together as the season progresses. Excuses don't make a team play better. If we lose we didn't play well enough for the game that was played (Mizzou) and if we have a good to great win we played better against an accomplished team (Murray State). It really doesn't reflect that much on the good to great team we are about to play. There is sometimes too much analysis done on the sideline. Some great teams have really bad games and some poor teams have great games many others fall somewhere in between. The Mizzou game will not effect the Maryland game in any way except for the Maryland overanalyzers and Maryland's game against Oakland will not effect Valpo vs Maryland in any way except for the Valpo overanalyzers. We don't need excuses for our friends or colleagues if we truly believe Valpo will beat the Terrapins!!!!
I am probably responsible for a little of those results on ESPN....picked Valpo over MD (of course) and Notre Dame to win it all
My official prediction...and I hope that I am wrong.
I think we are going to have trouble scoring. Peters will have trouble finding open looks. Darien will be cold and force too many shots. Tevonn will still be a step slow from the injury and will have trouble getting to the rim against their quick guards, and Vashil will miss at least 2 ally-oop dunks.
Our defense will keep us in the game throughout. Maryland will never lead by more than 12 points, but we will never be able to cut the lead to under 5 points. With five minutes to go it will be a 6 point game. They will hit their free throws down the stretch. Final Score 54-63
The announcers will praise our defense and our youth. We will learn many lessons from this game and will be ready to make a run sometime in the next 2 years.
It feels like it's been 2 weeks since the game was announced. The feel good stories are all nice, the predictions are all interesting and the national exposure is all good, but I am so ready to get this thing going. Patience never has been 1 of my stronger virtues. :)
My ESPN bracket was entirely based on Geography. The school closest to the Chapel (based on google maps shortest route driving)...
Valpo beats Iowa in the National Championship.
The Midwest Bracket finals were all Indiana Schools...go figure.... Notre Dame is closer than Butler... sorry, Dawgs.
I'll bet you didn't know (or care) that Wofford is 6 miles closer to Valpo than Arkansas.... and Ohio State is 5 miles closer than Xavier.
Nothing better to build our players' confidence than knowing there have already been 2 victories today by not 1 but 2 14/3 underdogs. Why not us!
Conversely, name a #4 seed that isn't taking this first game seriously NOW.
Quote from: vu72 on March 18, 2015, 09:55:20 PM
Quote from: atkins on March 18, 2015, 09:44:32 PM
Wasn't able to convince anyone in the office pool to select Valpo against MD. Thought I'd get a couple to at least humor me. As one colleague told me, "You couldn't beat the worst Mizzou team in history, so how can you stay on the court with Maryland?" I think he's wrong, but he's got a valid point.
OK, try, "very young team", or, "it was our first road game and our players didn't know each other" or... :crazy: Think of something!
Quote from: bbtds on March 19, 2015, 05:42:41 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 18, 2015, 09:55:20 PM
Quote from: atkins on March 18, 2015, 09:44:32 PM
Wasn't able to convince anyone in the office pool to select Valpo against MD. Thought I'd get a couple to at least humor me. As one colleague told me, "You couldn't beat the worst Mizzou team in history, so how can you stay on the court with Maryland?" I think he's wrong, but he's got a valid point.
OK, try, "very young team", or, "it was our first road game and our players didn't know each other" or... :crazy: Think of something!
Why do we have to have excuses for being better later in the season? Many teams learn to play better together as the season progresses. Excuses don't make a team play better. If we lose we didn't play well enough for the game that was played (Mizzou) and if we have a good to great win we played better against an accomplished team (Murray State). It really doesn't reflect that much on the good to great team we are about to play. There is sometimes too much analysis done on the sideline. Some great teams have really bad games and some poor teams have great games many others fall somewhere in between. The Mizzou game will not effect the Maryland game in any way except for the Maryland overanalyzers and Maryland's game against Oakland will not effect Valpo vs Maryland in any way except for the Valpo overanalyzers. We don't need excuses for our friends or colleagues if we truly believe Valpo will beat the Terrapins!!!!
Many great points. However, I'm honestly not sure that we would beat Mizzou even now. It would be pick 'em in my opinion. We don't have any impressive victories against powerhouses or even semi-powerhouses. We have a lot of victories against mid-majors, most of which are simply middle-of-the-pack. I'd feel better if we had a good win against even a lower-half dweller in a major conference.
Quote from: atkins on March 19, 2015, 03:28:49 PMI'm honestly not sure that we would beat Mizzou even now. It would be pick 'em in my opinion. We don't have any impressive victories against powerhouses or even semi-powerhouses.
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120930173516/victorious/images/3/39/Tumblr_mb63zp7hQ21qls1d0o2_250.gif)
I wonder if/how much Thursday upsets have affected Friday 5/12, 4/13, 3/14 matchups. Do the underdogs play with newfound confidence? Or are the favorites given that much more incentive to take their game seriously?
Quote from: hailcrusaders on March 19, 2015, 07:53:25 PM
I wonder if/how much Thursday upsets have affected Friday 5/12, 4/13, 3/14 matchups. Do the underdogs play with newfound confidence? Or are the favorites given that much more incentive to take their game seriously?
No team doesn't take this seriously already, though I'd wager that these games, in revealing how flimsy the superiority of the majors is on a neutral floor, scare the bejeezus out the favorites.
Quote from: atkins on March 19, 2015, 03:28:49 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 18, 2015, 09:55:20 PM
Quote from: atkins on March 18, 2015, 09:44:32 PM
Wasn't able to convince anyone in the office pool to select Valpo against MD. Thought I'd get a couple to at least humor me. As one colleague told me, "You couldn't beat the worst Mizzou team in history, so how can you stay on the court with Maryland?" I think he's wrong, but he's got a valid point.
OK, try, "very young team", or, "it was our first road game and our players didn't know each other" or... :crazy: Think of something!
Quote from: bbtds on March 19, 2015, 05:42:41 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 18, 2015, 09:55:20 PM
Quote from: atkins on March 18, 2015, 09:44:32 PM
Wasn't able to convince anyone in the office pool to select Valpo against MD. Thought I'd get a couple to at least humor me. As one colleague told me, "You couldn't beat the worst Mizzou team in history, so how can you stay on the court with Maryland?" I think he's wrong, but he's got a valid point.
OK, try, "very young team", or, "it was our first road game and our players didn't know each other" or... :crazy: Think of something!
Why do we have to have excuses for being better later in the season? Many teams learn to play better together as the season progresses. Excuses don't make a team play better. If we lose we didn't play well enough for the game that was played (Mizzou) and if we have a good to great win we played better against an accomplished team (Murray State). It really doesn't reflect that much on the good to great team we are about to play. There is sometimes too much analysis done on the sideline. Some great teams have really bad games and some poor teams have great games many others fall somewhere in between. The Mizzou game will not effect the Maryland game in any way except for the Maryland overanalyzers and Maryland's game against Oakland will not effect Valpo vs Maryland in any way except for the Valpo overanalyzers. We don't need excuses for our friends or colleagues if we truly believe Valpo will beat the Terrapins!!!!
Many great points. However, I'm honestly not sure that we would beat Mizzou even now. It would be pick 'em in my opinion. We don't have any impressive victories against powerhouses or even semi-powerhouses. We have a lot of victories against mid-majors, most of which are simply middle-of-the-pack. I'd feel better if we had a good win against even a lower-half dweller in a major confrence.
[/b]
After today's game, do you really think we need to beat anybody from a major conference--who won't play us? Just check out some of the win from a Muray State or Portland of even Green Bay. We could win those games, we just haven't had the chance. And after tomorrow, my guess is the scheduling just got REALLY tough!
I hope for the player's sake we don't lose like Wofford did to Arkansas. Two very open shots from beyond the arc that would have tied the game and the Terriers go down by only 3 to a top half of the SEC team that could have been beaten. 56-53.
Quote from: historyman on March 19, 2015, 11:17:27 PM
I hope for the player's sake we don't lose like Wofford did to Arkansas. Two very open shots from beyond the arc that would have tied the game and the Terriers go down by only 3 to a top half of the SEC team that could have been beaten. 56-53.
I'll settle for not going down like Eastern Washington: manhandled by Georgetown with the blessing of the referees.
I really hope that our guys have a renewed vigor in seeing all of these mid-majors battle, and some win, against the larger programs. If you can't get up for a game like this, why even get up?
Repeat of the Murray State game. We win 87 to 59.
I'm allowed to dream, right?
Just play as you have the last three games as a team supporting each other and with all of your focus. En.joy the game play like you love it. Only what is between the lines counts today. You played all year for this day. Have a great game!! ;D
No more "this wasn't supposed to be the year anyway".
No more "we have at least two more years".
No more "we should have been a 12 or Maryland should have been a 3".
No more "they will out-physical us" or "we will be a step slow".
No more "we are too beat up from a long season".
Today is the day. This is the moment. Play like there will be no other moment. Play like this is the last moment on Earth.
We've waited 17 years for this day. Let's live in it.
Go Crusaders!
Valpo All-Access: E.Victor Nickerson and Jubril Adekoya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa8xAHIC8E4#ws)
I have never heard Nickerson or Adekoya talk before. They sound like mature well-spoken guys.
Don't under-estimate the importance of those traits in situations like this. Poise is big. Everyone has to play and keep assignments instead of over amping;.
Tevonn and David:
Valpo All-Access: Tevonn Walker and David Skara (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynBKjWh-s2g#ws)
I'm bored. I think maybe I will go out fishing all afternoon. Any of you guys want to come along? ;)
I feel better now. One of my colleagues who lives, breathes, eats and sleeps college basketball informed me that he picked Valpo over MD on one of his two brackets. I asked him to explain his contradictory selections, and he told me that it depends upon which Maryland team shows up to play. He thinks it will be Maryland in a blowout or Valpo in a nail-biter. I'll take the later.
So, will we be in the gold shoes today? Let's just hope Bryce doesn't decide on the gray uniforms!!
This game time delay is killing me lol. Unfortunately I don't have cable right now so am resorting to listening to wvur on tunein radio. Listening to Todd is well worth it anyway.
Same old story.
Ugly start. Vashil is struggling offensively not a surprise. Cant get shots to fall.
Maybe Tevonn doesn't know any better. Seems to not have the nerves everybody else does.
Quote from: Valpofan00 on March 20, 2015, 04:21:54 PM
Ugly start. Vashil is struggling offensively not a surprise. Cant get shots to fall.
To be expected, in a way. But you can tell they've shaken off the feeling that Maryland is special. They're not.
WE. CAN. DO. THIS.
Hung in there, but got lost on offense for too long of a stretch. Big three to end the half, but need other options than threes on offense. It does look like drive and kick out is there.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 20, 2015, 05:08:32 PM
Hung in there, but got lost on offense for too long of a stretch. Big three to end the half, but need other options than threes on offense. It does look like drive and kick out is there.
I'm gonna say not lost so much as the over-exuberant. I think this is the second phase (after the fearful do-we-belong-here phase) that they'll get over come the second half.
Good crowd in the Union, good energy. Loud at times. Much fuller now than in this photo.
[tweet]579019222388461568[/tweet]
For all the rocky bits of this half, Paul said it well
[tweet]579035539711647744[/tweet]
Quote from: agibson on March 20, 2015, 05:22:31 PM
For all the rocky bits of this half, Paul said it well
[tweet]579035539711647744[/tweet]
Agree. I'm getting to the point where I'll be disappointed by a slim victory via late-minute heroics. Well...not disappointed, I guess.
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 05:37:17 PMAgree. I'm getting to the point where I'll be disappointed by a slim victory via late-minute heroics. Well...not disappointed, I guess.
Heck no. But, it would be disappointing if we didn't have at least a chance at it in the closing seconds. We're very much in this game. Need to take it to the next level. Tied it up.. but can't quite regain the lead.
Quote from: agibson on March 20, 2015, 05:51:57 PM
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 05:37:17 PMAgree. I'm getting to the point where I'll be disappointed by a slim victory via late-minute heroics. Well...not disappointed, I guess.
Heck no. But, it would be disappointing if we didn't have at least a chance at it in the closing seconds. We're very much in this game. Need to take it to the next level. Tied it up.. but can't quite regain the lead.
I'm encouraged by the fact that Maryland is "hanging in there" via perimeter shooting. It's not how they needed to win.
T. Walker needs more touches. He can get to the rim.
It was all tied up with 6 minutes, E Victor bad foul and bad turnover. down by 4
Our 3-point percentage is better than our free-throw percentage. Not sure what to think about that.
Damn it, is this going to be a close victory for us or a cake walk? :)
would be nice to get this one. I think we could beat W. Virginia.
It was Tevonn that put us at and past 51, and Alec of course with more than his 10. Does that work in the NCAA?
51 and 10!
Would've been good if Dodd had gotten called for that foul. It's maryland that was in foul trouble at the start of this half! Gotta pull together here.
Bryce is going to have to re-invent, with no E Vic, and with Alec hanging on four.
Bryce is the king of reinvention, of course.
This pg guard for Maryland is better than K. Felder at drawing fouls.
Getting really tired of the condescending broadcasting. My irritation started with the Buffalo/WV contest (somehow hanging on, sawed-off big man, good rebounding, but not the same as rebounding against Big 12 competition). Continues with Valpo.
Before Bryce timeout they ran the same play before half against Green Bay. Only they did not throw it to Vashil this time. Should have got that easy two, then foul.
the announcers even mentioned it as I was typing.
Not that anybody necessarily cares, but I'm genuinely disappointed. And I don't mean in that cute "wouldn't it have been nice if that little Valpo team had won" way. I mean in that "Maryland, for a team that at one point was pretending to be the 8th best team wasn't impressive" kind of way. Major bummer.
Looked like Carter was hacked across the right wrist on that play at the buzzer right in front of the ref too. Would have been an almost impossible shot even if he had gotten it off. Oh well. We actually had a chance for the first time since 98. Maybe this will inspire them for next year.
i had a Mass to play. so i had a friend tape it.
except the DVR ran out with 3:11 to play and us down 58-57. definitely the most anticlimactic way to find out the end of the game.
gah. as a UM fan I hate Smotrycz too. what a way to go out.
was it a real foul there at the end? for someone that didn't see it.
Quote from: 78crusader on March 20, 2015, 04:21:12 PM
Same old story.
[/b]
Really? What a cheap shot. We just played dead even with the eighth best team in the country. All those who keep saying that we would get blown out by a top 20 team (you included) have a lot of crow to eat. We should have won. To just sit back and say "same old story" is just not even close to accurate. Sure, we lost again. However, it showed we belong. Zero teams will want to play us next year. Other then the wins in 98, this was the closest game we have ever played in the tourney.
One more thing: this was your prediction.
Just can't pick VU on this one. Maryland has beaten Wisconsin, Iowa State, and MSU --twice. Oren has Maryland by 12. I hope it's that close. And I hope my prediction is dead wrong.
VU 44
Maryland 65
For the record, your prediction was just that. Dead wrong.
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 06:23:24 PM
Getting really tired of the condescending broadcasting. My irritation started with the Buffalo/WV contest (somehow hanging on, sawed-off big man, good rebounding, but not the same as rebounding against Big 12 competition). Continues with Valpo.
If you were just listening to them you would think Maryland was winning easily. And just about every highlight was of Maryland. We are not going to get any respect from the national media until we actually win one of these games against a big name school.
This was our Boston College game.
Next year is the Ole Miss / FSU / URI tournament.
We were really physical. Barkley at the half made some idiotic comment that Maryland was stronger and more athletic. I thought if anything we were probably over aggressive. Those fouls on rebounds are rarely called in the Horizon and we found refs that like to call it close. There's no prizes for losing. It sucks, but not too down because I know we'll be back. We need to schedule smart next year to set us up for a decent seed. Maryland was a good tough team and hopefully we can work our way up to a more vulnerable opponent in the first round.
One wrong call and one no call really hurt us at the end. Ball was definitely out off of Dodd and not Vashil on the out of bounds where they went to the monitor. Even good old Doug Gottlieb couldn't figure out how they came up with that one. As my wife always says "referees should have to take a physics class". The last play Keith got his arm raked, there was no ball contact, but it should have never come down to that play anyway. Think the boys will be practising free throws this summer???
Skara was wide open in the corner and we dribble into the other corner.
Missed some bunnies under the basket and if we hit our free throws the game would be different.
You can't blame the refs.
Hopefully we can get the Goshen's, IUSB's, Trinity Int, & IPFW's off our schedule next year. No doubt in my mind that we will be back into the tourney next year.
Just wanted to see a final shot...ugh...very entertaining game of basketball. Proud of the way this team battled especially after being down 11-2 with nothing going down. They hit their FT's down the stretch...and for Valpo...our chronic FT bug may have finally caught up to us.
I LOVE that this group almost entirely returns for next year so that they can feed off of this loss. This is a team that seems to play with a lot of heart and will definitely have a chip on their shoulder next year. Against MSU two years ago we looked lost, this year...not so much. Great season! Looking forward to a healthy and prosperous 15-16.
Love this one from the CBS recap...Keith Carter went up for one in the corner, but Ram reached in and swiped the ball away - maybe getting some of Carter's arm in the process. Once again physics comes into play, if you are swiping down and hit the ball the ball does not go straight up into the air as is what happened in this case.
Even tho we lost, I am very happy with the outcome. The boys played an excellent, tight game. I honestly thought we would lose by around 10 pts.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 20, 2015, 06:53:07 PM
This was our Boston College game.
Next year is the Ole Miss / FSU / URI tournament.
I was thinking the same thing before the outcome. But, I have to admit that I was expecting a different result this time.
Quote from: nkvu on March 20, 2015, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 06:23:24 PM
Getting really tired of the condescending broadcasting. My irritation started with the Buffalo/WV contest (somehow hanging on, sawed-off big man, good rebounding, but not the same as rebounding against Big 12 competition). Continues with Valpo.
If you were just listening to them you would think Maryland was winning easily. And just about every highlight was of Maryland. We are not going to get any respect from the national media until we actually win one of these games against a big name school.
Doug Gottlieb just lost all respect. What B might want to know. His "do everything, McDonald's All American" Milo Trimble, had 14 points, 7 rebounds and 2 turnovers. Our "other kid" freshman, Tevonn Walker, had 14 points, 5 rebounds and only 1 turnover. On to their second best scorer, Layman. Layman averages 13.1 ppg and 5.9 rebounds (against Big Ten opponents! ;) ) Agains the crummy Horizon competition, he got 4 points and 6 rebounds, while his matchup, Alec Peters, ate his lunch.
I need to take a deep breath... :(
Quote from: gamelord on March 20, 2015, 07:08:20 PM
Even tho we lost, I am very happy with the outcome. The boys played an excellent, tight game. I honestly thought we would lose by around 10 pts.
I'm going to tell you that I'm not happy with the outcome. Valpo should have won and Maryland wasn't that good. There. I said it. And God damn it, I mean it.
Quote from: vu72 on March 20, 2015, 07:25:30 PMDoug Gottlieb just lost all respect.
Yeap. I had to put it on mute because of him. he's the type of guy you'd just like to kick the crap out of because he gets on your nerves.
Anyone else hear the cheap shot comments from the Maryland coach at the half? Arrogant ass. My least favorite coach now in the NCAA's. Wardle #2.
Quote from: Chairback on March 20, 2015, 07:32:27 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 20, 2015, 07:25:30 PMDoug Gottlieb just lost all respect.
Yeap. I had to put it on mute because of him. he's the type of guy you'd just like to kick the crap out of because he gets on your nerves.
Anyone else hear the cheap shot comments from the Maryland coach at the half? Arrogant ass. My least favorite coach now in the NCAA's. Wardle #2.
Yah I can just hear him in the post game interview..."we just played really poorly to allow a clearly inferior team from a crappy conference to luck in a few bogus threes and play way over their heads to make it somewhat close. :crazy:
NOT, NOT, NOT impressed with Maryland, except that they beat Valpo. There. I said it.
While I am definitely dissapointed in the loss, I thought that Valpo's effort was tremendous. Regardless of what commentators said, etc., Valpo has good players that came to play. How many times did they get down 6 or 7 and then come back to tie it or cut it to one? This is one of the better Big Ten teams and Valpo never flinched. Trimble was an incredible point guard and Carter had trouble with him, but played pretty well. Wells was shut down mostly after dominating. Multiple Valpo players stepped up and made big shots.
Not sure if this compares to the Boston College game, but with everyone (plus Williams and Smits, but minus Vashil) back, next year certainly looks promising.
Super pleased with the team. However, not getting a shot off in the last 20+ seconds was disappointing because I think we would have taken them in the overtime
What I found interesting is that they apparently didn't watch any of our recent games or chose to ignore what they saw. Both CSU and GB put a lock down and Alec and let the rest of the guys go. Not so in this game. If they tried to lock Alec down they failed miserably. Leading scorer at 18.
wow. .. They just did a game recap and I can not believe how bad they butchered the players names. ...
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 20, 2015, 07:46:06 PM
Not sure if this compares to the Boston College game, but with everyone (plus Williams and Smits, but minus Vashil) back, next year certainly looks promising.
Very favorably, I'd say. The Boston College game was the "we belong" game that auto-bid teams from time to time need.
i can honestly say that if we played them 10 times we could win 4-7 of them. Never felt that way after an NCAA game since the Sweet 16. The 2002 team had a lot of weapons but Kentucky and Teshaun Prince and their bigs just made it seem out of reach after 10 minutes or so.
We shot FTs poorly and missed a lot of tip ins, but we measured up on defense and rebounds vs. a Top 20 team. TeVonn and E. Victor can be special as well as Alec. I will travel a long way to watch a good non-conf. game next year. Next year we take down some high majors
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 20, 2015, 08:07:48 PM
i can honestly say that if we played them 10 times we could win 4-7 of them. Never felt that way after an NCAA game since the Sweet 16.
Totally agree. Glad I fast forwarded through Turgeon at the half--almost afraid to ask what he said.
Eff him, though, they're going down in the next round anyway.
Frickin' Smotrycz too...should've stayed at UM, then he'd have gotten to play in the final four instead of just the 'third round'.
I'm guessing Maryland fans don't think they were under seeded after all.
As others have stated, I hate to see the season end on a blatantly bad no-call, though these were the same officials that reviewed a replay and were the only ones in America not to see the ball was out of bounds off the Maryland player. Even though I don't think the outcome would have been much different because I doubt Keith makes all three free throws, especially given the poor night at the foul line by the team, wouldn't it have been highly dramatic to watch him try?
Having said that, what a surprisingly excellent season by this team: overcoming injuries that just about everyone thought would end their chances for a Horizon League regular season, winning the tournament championship with non-starters on the court much of the game (and one of the freshmen off the bench as the ESPN Player of the Game), and then taking a top-10 team to the buzzer in the NCAA tourney! Indeed, Valpo came within a shot of winning each of their three conferences losses, and could easily have been the first Crusader team to log 30 wins in a season, not that their record-breaking 28 isn't something to view with pride.
On top of all this success, which wasn't expected until next year or the one after, if all on this team we saw on the court tonight (except Vashil) return—and add a healthy Lexus, Shane, Smits, and Relvao—they easily should be favorites to repeat as Horizon League champions and even be seen as a possible top-25 team. Pleasantly surprised by this season and cautiously optimistic about the future!
I was bummed at the result as I am sure many of you feel right now. Valpo played well; I just wish those damn free throws would go in! The rebounding was good, the overall defense was great. Alec Peters was awesome. I am feeling really good about the future of this program. They did not pull an Iowa State in this game.
Oh, they had "Valpraiso" on the scoreboard in pre-game warmups
Quote from: Smj on March 20, 2015, 08:04:17 PM
wow. .. They just did a game recap and I can not believe how bad they butchered the players names. ...
Like I said. No respect from national media until we win. At least they mostly said ValparAso instead of ValparEYEso.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 20, 2015, 08:07:48 PM
i can honestly say that if we played them 10 times we could win 4-7 of them. Never felt that way after an NCAA game since the Sweet 16. The 2002 team had a lot of weapons but Kentucky and Teshaun Prince and their bigs just made it seem out of reach after 10 minutes or so.
We shot FTs poorly and missed a lot of tip ins, but we measured up on defense and rebounds vs. a Top 20 team. TeVonn and E. Victor can be special as well as Alec. I will travel a long way to watch a good non-conf. game next year. Next year we take down some high majors
Am I the only one who thinks the emperor has no clothes? I don't agree. I think that we win 5 out of 10 times, if not more. The mystique, once dispelled (by playing them and eventually realizing that the major-broadcasting shills are full of :censored:) is easy to overcome.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 20, 2015, 08:11:25 PM
Eff him, though, they're going down in the next round anyway.
Frickin' Smotrycz too...should've stayed at UM, then he'd have gotten to play in the final four instead of just the 'third round'.
I'm guessing Maryland fans don't think they were under seeded after all.
I don't think they're going down in the next round. They beat VALPO, biznatch. (Better Call Saul moment, excuse me.)
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 20, 2015, 08:07:48 PMi can honestly say that if we played them 10 times we could win 4-7 of them.
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 08:25:48 PMI don't agree. I think that we win 5 out of 10 times, if not more.
(http://www.troll.me/images/hmmmm/hmmmm.jpg)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 20, 2015, 08:40:05 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 20, 2015, 08:07:48 PMi can honestly say that if we played them 10 times we could win 4-7 of them.
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 08:25:48 PMI don't agree. I think that we win 5 out of 10 times, if not more.
(http://www.troll.me/images/hmmmm/hmmmm.jpg)
This makes me realize that I didn't note the oddity of the 4 of 7 claim. Is this an anti-metric thing?
Quote from: vu72 on March 20, 2015, 06:49:31 PMZero teams will want to play us next year.
To get the monkey off our backs we need a couple OOC top 70 wins against BIGs. Good luck trying to put together a schedule that easily allows this to happen. I don't know how we pull it off but we need an at large potential season and that will require some difficult road games.
Because of the Baylor loss I have placed my desire for a 2 for 1 on the back burner. :) They looked even more beatable than Maryland. I always root for the underdog so I loved every minute of it! Sorry.
Quote from: justducky on March 20, 2015, 09:22:54 PM
To get the monkey off our backs we need a couple OOC top 70 wins against BIGs. Good luck trying to put together a schedule that easily allows this to happen. I don't know how we pull it off but we need an at large potential season and that will require some difficult road games.
Because of the Baylor loss I have placed my desire for a 2 for 1 on the back burner. :) They looked even more beatable than Maryland. I always root for the underdog so I loved every minute of it! Sorry.
I don't think there was anything all that deficient about our preparation. I'm not convinced that we need to beat high-major foes (on their floor, as it will be) to be prepared. I think we were perfectly prepared when you consider that we barely lost to the supposed 8th-ranked team.
I know this is not very important to Alec after today's loss, but we need to recognize that he moved beyond 1,000 points in his career during the game, and we have two more years to anticipate even more!
[tweet]579111459881398272[/tweet]
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 20, 2015, 08:40:05 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 20, 2015, 08:07:48 PMi can honestly say that if we played them 10 times we could win 4-7 of them.
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 08:25:48 PMI don't agree. I think that we win 5 out of 10 times, if not more.
(http://www.troll.me/images/hmmmm/hmmmm.jpg)
By the way, my confusion revolved around the idea of whether 4-7 meant four out of seven or four to seven (4 out of 11).
I was really proud of how our kids fought and how well they carried themselves --especially for how young we are. I am sad that we couldn't get a last shot off. But to be in a position to tie the #8 ranked team in the country is a measure of solice.
Not being a BB guru I am naively thinking a couple of things to work on for 2015-16 :
100 carefully performed free throws per day per player for the next 7 months. That's about 21000 practice shots. Should help our %age a couple of points
Two more solid double screen plays (or something) to free Alec up when we really need him. I was shouting at the screen "free Alec up!!!" But the team stuck to the normal flow of their offense. That is OK but in critical times I would think that you find more ways to get Alec even more involved. He played great in the flow that was run, but I personally was hoping more special plays to get him more open looks. UMD was chasing him big time and not giving much space. For the next two years we will ride his broad shoulders. We need to do special things for a special player. Just my :twocents:
What a great season! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 09:56:51 PMBy the way, my confusion revolved around the idea of whether 4-7 meant four out of seven or four to seven (4 out of 11).
what do you, adlai stevenson, and david ortiz have in common? ;)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqTTjpLCIAACFaU.jpg)
The loss stinks, especially how we lost. Shot goes up but doesn't fall in perhaps its some closure but it stinks that we didn't tie it up at the end. Anyways, this team is going to be a top mid-major program next season. We coulda, shoulda, woulda, won today, a few calls go our way who knows but how we performed has given me confidence next season. We didn't shy away from the moment, too bad we couldn't complete the upset. I think this loss will fuel this team next season.
This was the closest game in the NCAA tournament for us since our run in 98. Maryland did not looks stronger than us nor did they look faster than us. Everybody said going into the game is that Maryland does a great job getting to the line and making their freethrows. What happened? Maryland got to the line and made their free throws and that was the reason they won. Both teams seemed pretty evenly matched and a few more bounces our way perhaps we pull off the upset.
Like I said, the way we lost stinks, the fact that we lost really doesn't bother me too much though. I'm excited for next season, this team has the opportunity to make that next step. Watching the game today has given me confidence that they can.
I'm gonna be cheering on the Terrapins, get to the Elite Eight, knock off Kentucky, make a name. They won the game, we didn't lose it. It was a great game and there's a reason its called March Madness.
Quote from: justducky on March 20, 2015, 09:22:54 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 20, 2015, 06:49:31 PMZero teams will want to play us next year.
To get the monkey off our backs we need a couple OOC top 70 wins against BIGs. Good luck trying to put together a schedule that easily allows this to happen. I don't know how we pull it off but we need an at large potential season and that will require some difficult road games.
I agree. We do not have to go "Kampe" but we have to lose the little schools and get better top team exposure. SOS was constantly thrown in our face when rating us for the bracket.
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 20, 2015, 08:40:05 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 20, 2015, 08:07:48 PMi can honestly say that if we played them 10 times we could win 4-7 of them.
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 08:25:48 PMI don't agree. I think that we win 5 out of 10 times, if not more.
(http://www.troll.me/images/hmmmm/hmmmm.jpg)
By the way, my confusion revolved around the idea of whether 4-7 meant four out of seven or four to seven (4 out of 11).
OMG. I didn't even realize that crusadermoe said "if we played them 10 times".
(http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-drink-beer-435.png)
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 20, 2015, 10:07:48 PM
Two more solid double screen plays (or something) to free Alec up when we really need him. I was shouting at the screen "free Alec up!!!" But the team stuck to the normal flow of their offense. That is OK but in critical times I would think that you find more ways to get Alec even more involved. He played great in the flow that was run, but I personally was hoping more special plays to get him more open looks. UMD was chasing him big time grabbing his jersey and not giving much space. For the next two years we will ride his broad shoulders. We need to do special things for a special player. Just my :twocents:
What a great season! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Fixed it for you!
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 09:44:45 PMI don't think there was anything all that deficient about our preparation.
Didn't say there was!
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 09:44:45 PMI'm not convinced that we need to beat high-major foes (on their floor, as it will be) to be prepared. I think we were perfectly prepared when you consider that we barely lost to the supposed 8th-ranked team.
That meat head commentator implied that we didn't belong on the same floor with Maryland and this needs to be addressed with a couple statement OOC victories thus drawing notice to a hopefully at-large resume'. Being in the running for an at large will require calculated risk and an 8 seed is not out of the question. Once again I would prefer a too strong schedule to one that is too weak. For the first few weeks of next season there should be almost nobody that we can not compete with on the road so lets go find some competition. BIGS are more fun to beat than the best mid majors and they may also (given our status) be easier to schedule!
Things didn't quite go our way, but I could not be more proud of this group of wonderful young men! It's great to be a Crusader fan!
It's crazy how close these 12-5, 13-4, and 14-3 games have been.
Alec Peters
@petersalec
A huge thank you to all the supporters that cheered us on this whole season. It's not how we wanted it to end but we will be back trust me.
8:14 PM - 20 Mar 2015
Darien Walker
@moneyblock1
Thankful for everyone that supported us all this year we owe it to yall to come back even better next year @valpoathletics @ValpoBasketball
5:52 PM - 20 Mar 2015
We have all the pieces in place to be a really great team EXCEPT a post player who is a scoring threat. That is what we were missing tonight. 12 of our 20 made shots came from behind the 3 point line. That is not a recipe for sustained success. We need somebody who is a true post player and is a threat to score every time he gets a touch in the post.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 20, 2015, 11:33:55 PMWe need somebody who is a true post player and is a threat to score every time he gets a touch in the post.
(http://i.imgur.com/gBmHQuI.png)
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 20, 2015, 11:33:55 PMWe have all the pieces in place to be a really great team EXCEPT a post player who is a scoring threat. That is what we were missing tonight. 12 of our 20 made shots came from behind the 3 point line. That is not a recipe for sustained success. We need somebody who is a true post player and is a threat to score every time he gets a touch in the post.
I completely agree. We had an excellent game behind the arc today that could have taken down just about anyone, but we all know how the saying goes...
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 20, 2015, 10:11:17 PM
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 09:56:51 PMBy the way, my confusion revolved around the idea of whether 4-7 meant four out of seven or four to seven (4 out of 11).
what do you, adlai stevenson, and david ortiz have in common? ;)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqTTjpLCIAACFaU.jpg)
Amazingly, I am a Dominican who occasionally misspells things, but the Stevenson parallel escapes me.
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 11:51:42 PMAmazingly, I am a Dominican who occasionally misspells things, but the Stevenson parallel escapes me.
you, Adlai, David, (and the dialing code for Carrickmacross, Ireland) were all 0-for-2 ;)
Didn't realize how close these 13-4 games have been till now.
UNC-Harvard : 67-65
Louisville-UCI : 57-55
UMD-Valpo : 65-62
Still feeling crappy about this one. So close, but we fall to another high major. At least this isn't like 2012-2013 where we lost so many players.
Finally glanced at the box score and we had only 9 turnovers against a good defensive unit. With all our ball handlers + returning I can imagine a very low TO team in 15-16 or one that could frequently get out and run. A little off season work on higher loft entry passes might be helpful as well as proper lead for lobs for the dunk. Can't wait. When is our first exhibition game? ::)
What a fun game to attend, and I attended the other 3 at this Regional today as well. Rik Smits and Derrik were both sitting in the Valpo section, and were every bit as intense about this game as the rest of us! I believe that Rik's father/Derrik's grandfather was there as well, as there was an older 7'0" guy next to him, as well. That ball was definitely out on Dodd, not Vashil, and Keith was raked across the arm on that last shot. It is good to be watching SportsCenter and hearing Miles Simon say that it was a foul, and that there was a photo making the rounds on Twitter of Keith getting fouled.
For those in the arena, it was fun to see Maryland's fans sitting on their hands for most of the game. We definitely belonged on the court, and SHOULD HAVE WON. We would have beat them if it went to OT, as well. Everyone in the building was standing for the last 1:30, what else can you do to get people to notice us again, except win next year :)!
Also, Talksalot had the pleasure of meeting me, without knowing that the loud/annoying kid next to him and his wife, was this guy ;). I didn't realize until some time in the second half, that his voice sounded familiar, and that it was him. By that time, I was too busy yelling and cheering to introduce myself lol. I will miss Vashil, but we will be even better next year, and no one will want to play us!
I didn't say it out loud until after the game was over, but down the stretch I was already thinking this is by far the best tournament performance for this school since 1998, which is not to completely indict some of those other teams since they probably weren't good enough to give this kind of performance. Overall strength deficiency usually tends to be a double-whammy: not only are you seeded worse, but your opponent is even more intimidating. But I think 2002 and 2013 stand out as games where I felt like we should be able to hang with our opponent even if we couldn't pull it out.
I'm quite bummed by the sad (and depressing) way it ended, but I was very impressed with the effort and resolve. I thought they recovered nicely every time they peed down their legs, and they had their fate in their own hands at the end. That's quite an improvement. The last time I saw this was the Rhode Island game in 98.
If you weren't there, you missed an even worse name gaffe. The PA guy at one point called our 6-8 point guard E Jordan Nickerson. :banghead: :rant:
Quite a few neutral observers who have gained a measure of respectability as commentators argued that Keith Carter should have been on the line shooting 3 FTs. We were on the opposite side, though as someone pointed out, if the defender got all ball, the ball would not have done what it did, so I trust they are right. I also did not see the out of bounds play clearly, but nearly everyone who did (and who had no rooting interest bias) jumped up and down about how the refs called it wrong.
By the same token, I think I saw us get away with a few things, though nothing specific springs to mind (I just got back from the evening session from hell -- event staff were finally allowed to go home around 1:40 am). Dayton fans took over the place, if you're interested. Albany got a little hosed by the refs, not that it made the difference. The Providence coach got T'd up for -- I'm not kidding -- knocking over a chair in the huddle during a timeout.
At any rate, if I had to point to one specific reason why this game was so much better than 2013 or 2004 or 2002 or 2000 or 1999, making 12 3s springs to mind. In those other years, the games seemed dominated by wide open looks that missed (and often horribly). We had a couple of those today, but a lot more swishes. It really was a fun game to be at. A couple of times I felt that nagging feeling like this was going to be just the same kind of depressing game, but it never lasted very long. Most notably after the 11-2 start I was really worried, but shortly thereafter the game was afoot.
One can be bummed at the loss (and heartbroken too), while also being proud of the team and their performance on the national stage, and that's me today.
Quote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 02:12:18 AMAlso, Talksalot had the pleasure of meeting me, without knowing that the loud/annoying kid next to him and his wife, was this guy
If I recall correctly, I think I was sitting a row or two behind you in section 114. ValpoHoops was a few rows down from you, if I'm right.
I'll put together a post-mortem later this week. I'm going to be spending the next few days working on high school softball! I did want to add something in defense of the broadcasters. I sat right next to Ian and Doug and met with them yesterday. They were given their assignment on Sunday and had eight teams to learn in four days. I highly doubt they watched Valparaiso's recent games. It takes a village to prep for games like this. Aaron Leavitt did a great job prepping both of them (Ian's notes were very detailed). Doug met with Bryce for much of practice yesterday. When I met with them I shared a few anecdotes, likely the same that Aaron or others shared.
I haven't seen the tape, but I can vouch that they spent as much time prepping as they could. I spoke to Ian last night before I left the arena and asked him if he needed anymore Valpo stuff. He said "I've been preparing so much I can't even see straight. I don't even know when those two teams play."
Prepping eight teams in four days isn't ideal. It takes a village.
Even Maryland's website mentions the below:
The Crusaders were down 3 with one last chance for coach Bryce Drew to draw up a winning play. He didn't need a length of the court pass as he did when he made the most famous shot in school history back in the 1998 tournament, but Valpo did need a 3.
Keith Carter went up for one in the corner, but Ram reached in and swiped the ball away -- maybe getting some of Carter's arm in the process.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 21, 2015, 02:29:22 AM
Quote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 02:12:18 AMAlso, Talksalot had the pleasure of meeting me, without knowing that the loud/annoying kid next to him and his wife, was this guy
If I recall correctly, I think I was sitting a row or two behind you in section 114. ValpoHoops was a few rows down from you, if I'm right.
Yep, I was row S in 114. Sorry if I stood up too much, but I get excited and worked up when Valpo is playing :)
Quote from: Pgmado on March 21, 2015, 02:46:07 AM
I'll put together a post-mortem later this week. I'm going to be spending the next few days working on high school softball! I did want to add something in defense of the broadcasters. I sat right next to Ian and Doug and met with them yesterday. They were given their assignment on Sunday and had eight teams to learn in four days. I highly doubt they watched Valparaiso's recent games. It takes a village to prep for games like this. Aaron Leavitt did a great job prepping both of them (Ian's notes were very detailed). Doug met with Bryce for much of practice yesterday. When I met with them I shared a few anecdotes, likely the same that Aaron or others shared.
I haven't seen the tape, but I can vouch that they spent as much time prepping as they could. I spoke to Ian last night before I left the arena and asked him if he needed anymore Valpo stuff. He said "I've been preparing so much I can't even see straight. I don't even know when those two teams play."
Prepping eight teams in four days isn't ideal. It takes a village.
Preparation and lack of respect are different. I watched the first half and had to listen to the national radio broadcast for most of the second half. The radio broadcasters were much more balanced. I was particularly disappointed when the television announcer excused the taunting that resulted in a technical. It seemed that someone must have gotten in his ear to tell him that his opinion was way off, because he backed off a bit. They certainly were prepped enough to know Alec is our key player, but they failed to mention that he was called for his second foul in the first half, while we were continually informed of stats for the Md players.
Of course, we all we're tracking our players performance, and we appreciate their effort yesterday and throughout the season.
I am so happy with this team. Best team in years and way better than I expected... Just a couple different situations and we make the next round. However, I need to say. ...
1. We got hosed by the selection committee (seeding sucked)
2. Why have replay if you are still going to get the call wrong (the ball was obviously out on Maryland)
3. If at the end of a game a foul keeps a player from even attempting to put the ball in the air YOU MUST CALL IT.
Wow - we looked like a great team. Near the end I was thinking that this team was about to make some noise. .. I know it is just a game but - I just really wanted the win for these kids. They would have loved how the media responds to a win at this level.
Terps fan here. First off, great game...you have one heck of a 3 point shooting team. If you have most of your players coming back, you are going to a force next year. Your team showed a lot of fight and kept coming back and didnt back down - much respect for your team. Peters is a stud, plays with a lot of grit, and from the other side he made a couple of borderline dirty plays...but that's basketball. Looks like a future pro.
As far as the officiating goes, there is no debate on this point - you all got fouled on the last shot of the game. No question. Ref has to make that call. However, the rebound play that got tipped out of bounds, both players hit that ball at the same time. Don't know how u can say that was obviously off Maryland. Also, how about MD's starting center Dodd who picked up his third and 4th foul on the clear block and then subsequent tech foul when Peters tried to dunk on him early in the 2nd half. Peters was clearly not fouled, then fell to the feet of Dodd who stared down at him when he just laying there at his feet. Trust me - MD fans were losing their sht after that play. Lost our starting C for most of the 2nd half bc of an awful ref call.
Anyway - great game...marred by some awful calls on both sides. This is how MD has won games all year. Think I said that earlier in this thread. We don't blow out anyone...they just find a way with Trimble, Wells and good FT shooting. Good luck next year for u guys. No doubt we'll see u back in the big dance.
Btw- Bryce Drew seems like a class act. But do have to question his decision to run clock all the way down at the end of the game just to shoot a 3 at the end. Oh well.
Quote from: Flinger29 on March 21, 2015, 06:31:48 AMAlso, how about MD's starting center Dodd who picked up his third and 4th foul on the clear block and then subsequent tech foul when Peters tried to dunk on him early in the 2nd half. Peters was clearly not fouled, then fell to the feet of Dodd who stared down at him when he just laying there at his feet.
First of all, that was Skara (maybe "they all look alike" to you).
Second of all, it wasn't a block if he got hands rather than ball.
4. Just saw the end again and the ball goes out of bounds after "the foul" and we should have gotten the ball with about a second left.
[tweet]579070242086727680[/tweet]
Says it all right there. Also some dude lost his @#$ on that and was all calling him out for "not supporting his conference."
As if MD belongs in the B1G. And as if Robbie should care. (He played so long at Purdue when he got there Penn State wasn't even in the B1G yet. ...ok that's a lie. but Nebraska wasn't.)
Check out the conversation:
https://twitter.com/RobbieHummel/status/579070242086727680
Robbie's only response:
[tweet]579085276129071104[/tweet]
Can't believe this season is already over. We should of won that game refs suck. Ugh this is depressing but the future is bright. I hope we don't redshirt Relvao he looks like a stud. Maybe another Vashil? He's an inch shorter but I think a longer wingspan I'm not sure. We get Lexus back. More improved current players. Hopefully smits provides some down low scoring and hammink looks like a complete stud. Do we have any scholarships left? If not maybe someone transfers? We could really use another shooter. Alec peters 2.0
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 21, 2015, 07:43:43 AMQuote from: Flinger29 on March 21, 2015, 06:31:48 AMAlso, how about MD's starting center Dodd who picked up his third and 4th foul on the clear block and then subsequent tech foul when Peters tried to dunk on him early in the 2nd half. Peters was clearly not fouled, then fell to the feet of Dodd who stared down at him when he just laying there at his feet.
First of all, that was Skara (maybe "they all look alike" to you). Second of all, it wasn't a block if he got hands rather than ball.
That block on Skara was definitely a block. He had all ball and minimal body contact. It was a bad call by the ref. The tech wasn't though.
Quote from: Valpo18 on March 21, 2015, 08:32:24 AMThat block on Skara was definitely a block.
Got the hand and the wrist.
It's easier to see if you had the color guy on mute.
Continued thoughts this morning...
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 11:51:42 PMbut the Stevenson parallel escapes me.
Actually there are a lot of Laporte's comments that escape me so you have company in that regard but you gotta love his thinking and creative ability!
(http://www.vgblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/05/Stronghold%20Crusader%20Extreme%20Logo.jpg)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 20, 2015, 11:43:26 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 20, 2015, 11:33:55 PMWe need somebody who is a true post player and is a threat to score every time he gets a touch in the post.
(http://i.imgur.com/gBmHQuI.png)
Rik and Derrik were very visible at the game. I noticed Rik had to sit on top of the seat arms sometimes so he had enough room for his legs. OTOH, Mrs. Smits had no issues with the seats. :)
The skara foul/block was not at the ball it was the body. ...
Quote from: Smj on March 21, 2015, 09:07:07 AM
The skara foul/block was not at the ball it was the body. ...
LOL. Ok. I'm sure if that was Wells driving for a dunk, and Skara clearly blocked it with his hand on the ball, you would be claiming it was the right call bc he got him "with the body". Give me a break.
You guys played a great game, but believe it or not...Valpo benefitted from some bad ref calls too. But if in your minds, u want to blame the refs as the reason u all lost, so be it. It's not going to change anything. Next time don't be down 3 points at the end of the game where a ref call can decide it.
Quote from: Smj on March 21, 2015, 09:07:07 AMThe skara foul/block was not at the ball it was the body. ...
I'd have to see it again, but it didn't look like there was that much body contact when they were showing the replays and even live.
An interesting article at Sports Illustrated about the Drews, especially Homer, which includes this revealing paragraph about "The Foul": "After the Valpo loss, Bryce stood against the wall in the hallway of Nationwide Arena. Four men in suits surrounded him, school and conference officials from Valpo and the Horizon League. They held their IPhones out showing both still shots and video evidence of Ram's obvious foul. Drew shook his head in disbelief at one point, asking who he should complain to that a Big Ten official—Dorsey does games in the league— ended up officiating in an NCAA tournament game with a Big Ten team. When approached by a reporter on the topic of the call, he summed up his feelings pithily: 'I'm not going to say anything about the refs.'"
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/03/20/homer-drew-bryce-scott-georgia-state-baylor-valpo-maryland (http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/03/20/homer-drew-bryce-scott-georgia-state-baylor-valpo-maryland)
The call on Skara was questionable, but its ALWAYS called. The non-call on Keith is not. It was a foul.
As far as the technical, it appeared he said something to Skara on the floor and stood over him. I wish more officials would call this, to be honest.
That said, I don't think anyone here is blaming the officiating. We had a chance and didn't execute.
There were two possessions in particular...both of which we were down one. On the first, Darien took a terrible three and got yanked, on the second, we didn't block out and Wells got the and-one.
Those were the key points, to me.
[Photos by Kirk Irwin/Getty Images]
(http://i57.tinypic.com/1zwzspv.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2dugvhd.jpg)
For anyone in NWI, you might want to pick up a Times newspaper to see their coverage of last night's game. There are numerous articles starting with the lead story on the front page accompanied by numerous color pictures. The online version doesn't do it justice. Congratulations to Paul Oren on a great job of writing multiple stories from different perspectives!
For the record I haven't yet seen the Post Tribune. It could be good, also. I just haven't seen it.
Quote from: gamelord on March 20, 2015, 04:09:23 PM
This game time delay is killing me lol. Unfortunately I don't have cable right now so am resorting to listening to wvur on tunein radio. Listening to Todd is well worth it anyway.
Ah, did it wind up on TuneIn? WVUR had originally said it wouldn't be there. Glad to hear Todd had a shot at a national audience. It was pretty noisy in the Union, and, you know, national broadcast. So I was checking in on a small radio at timeouts. Was running maybe 30 seconds ahead of the TV.
Quote from: FWalum on March 20, 2015, 06:56:37 PM
One wrong call and one no call really hurt us at the end. Ball was definitely out off of Dodd and not Vashil on the out of bounds where they went to the monitor. Even good old Doug Gottlieb couldn't figure out how they came up with that one. As my wife always says "referees should have to take a physics class".
I was definitely thinking about the physics watching the replays (and watching the last play). On the out of bounds, it was very clear that the UMD player provided most of the impulse. But, that's not the call. It's who touched it last. And, after several replays, I decided I'd have to see several more. Vashil has such big hands. Did it graze his pinky on its way out of bounds? Might have. And, I'm not exactly sure how the replays work- is it like football, ruling on the court stands without incontrovertible evidence? From the TV replays, I wasn't -sure- it missed Vashil.
I'd have liked to see Dodd foul out earlier, which one of the commentators was calling for. Always tough in those multi-contact situations.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 20, 2015, 07:46:06 PM
How many times did they get down 6 or 7 and then come back to tie it or cut it to one? This is one of the better Big Ten teams and Valpo never flinched. Trimble was an incredible point guard and Carter had trouble with him, but played pretty well. Wells was shut down mostly after dominating. Multiple Valpo players stepped up and made big shots.
I'll admit, it left me dreaming a little. How many games would we have won in the Big Ten? Get these guys at the ARC! Where would we have finished?
Quote from: Smj on March 20, 2015, 07:53:44 PM
Super pleased with the team. However, not getting a shot off in the last 20+ seconds was disappointing because I think we would have taken them in the overtime
With Layman and Dodd fouled out? Could have been interesting! Could Tevonn (rhymes with Kevin, right?) have made hay inside?
But no E Vic. And Alec on 4.
After looking at the posted pictures of the likely foul on Carter, I would honestly suggest considering a few things. First, not a great play call by Bryce (who admitted as much). But secondly, the ball is in Carter's left hand. Pretty hard to say that he was shooting. In fact, you could argue that the guy that Turgeon put in was there to foul if necessary. Even if they call the foul, it would be two shots with 1 or 2 second left. Very little chance of winning in that situation.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 21, 2015, 11:16:15 AM
the ball is in Carter's left hand. Pretty hard to say that he was shooting. In fact, you could argue that the guy that Turgeon put in was there to foul if necessary. Even if they call the foul, it would be two shots with 1 or 2 second left. Very little chance of winning in that situation.
Not sure what you are looking at, but I just checked the video again. Carter has the ball in both hands and is rising to shoot when his right hand is hit, which leaves his left hand and the ball going straight up. There is no disputing the hack happened and that it occurred in the act of shooting. Carter should have gotten 3 shots. Nevertheless, as I said previously, I doubt Keith would make all three given the state of free throw shooting by the team and the pressure of the situation. But he should have had the chance, and it would have made for great drama!
Quote from: Valpo18 on March 21, 2015, 12:05:25 AM
Didn't realize how close these 13-4 games have been till now.
UNC-Harvard : 67-65
Louisville-UCI : 57-55
UMD-Valpo : 65-62
Still feeling crappy about this one. So close, but we fall to another high major. At least this isn't like 2012-2013 where we lost so many players.
This reminds me of Todd's 30 minutes of noble vamping in the pre-game. Talked a lot about parity, how much things have changed since '98 which was apparently the first significant upset in many years.
Now they're routine. And Todd talked about how the gap between top 50 and top 150 players has shrunk, how the talent pool has expanded, etc.
And seeing Valpo hang, to the end, with a top 20 team, was a beautiful thing. (And no end of frustrating that they couldn't -quite- take the lead in the 2nd half, or tie it when it counted.)
Yet, what was the only upset yesterday? Dayton playing a second "home" game?
Half of the Dayton game was this morning, so not sure that it counts as an upset yesterday.
Love the term "noble vamping". I would add that the gap shrinking between the top 50 and the next 100 to 150 players increases the emphasis on team play making the difference. This is why some people (generally people who are more NBA fans) criticize college ball because teams shut down a top scorer more in college ball. Teams that win in college basketball may have the best players, but always win because of team play.
Quote from: Flinger29 on March 21, 2015, 06:31:48 AM
Terps fan here. First off, great game...you have one heck of a 3 point shooting team. If you have most of your players coming back, you are going to a force next year. Your team showed a lot of fight and kept coming back and didnt back down - much respect for your team. Peters is a stud, plays with a lot of grit, and from the other side he made a couple of borderline dirty plays...but that's basketball. Looks like a future pro.
Uh... ?
Quote from: a3uge on March 21, 2015, 12:00:00 PM
Quote from: Flinger29 on March 21, 2015, 06:31:48 AM
Peters is a stud, plays with a lot of grit, and from the other side he made a couple of borderline dirty plays
Uh... ?
You'll have to forgive him/her. S/he already proved s/he doesn't know the difference between Skara and Alec; s/he also doesn't know the difference between Alec and Dodd apparently either.
Quote from: agibson on March 21, 2015, 10:37:23 AM
Quote from: gamelord on March 20, 2015, 04:09:23 PM
This game time delay is killing me lol. Unfortunately I don't have cable right now so am resorting to listening to wvur on tunein radio. Listening to Todd is well worth it anyway.
Ah, did it wind up on TuneIn? WVUR had originally said it wouldn't be there. Glad to hear Todd had a shot at a national audience. It was pretty noisy in the Union, and, you know, national broadcast. So I was checking in on a small radio at timeouts. Was running maybe 30 seconds ahead of the TV.
Yes, the wvur feed worked flawlessly. TuneIn also had the national Westwood feed available, so I did have a backup just incase lol.
Quote from: justducky on March 20, 2015, 10:24:51 PM
Quote from: Valpower on March 20, 2015, 09:44:45 PMI'm not convinced that we need to beat high-major foes (on their floor, as it will be) to be prepared. I think we were perfectly prepared when you consider that we barely lost to the supposed 8th-ranked team.
Being in the running for an at large will require calculated risk and an 8 seed is not out of the question. Once again I would prefer a too strong schedule to one that is too weak. For the first few weeks of next season there should be almost nobody that we can not compete with on the road so lets go find some competition. BIGS are more fun to beat than the best mid majors and they may also (given our status) be easier to schedule!
It would sure make -me- feel better if we could pick up a couple of signature wins.
Most of the time if be wishing we could get the big dogs in December (or February!) instead of November. But, next year, you make an interesting point. It'll be interesting to see what we do in the post, but, otherwise...
There was an interesting Keith Carter quote in ine if the local papers today (probably Times, maybe Post Trib) to the extent that the players were always asking Bryce to schedule big teams. And how he was always explains the difficulty of scheduling...
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 20, 2015, 11:33:55 PMWe need somebody who is a true post player and is a threat to score every time he gets a touch in the post.
Can you imagine senior KVW and senior Vashil rolled into one package?
I suppose that hypothetical player would be pretty unlikely to be wearing brown and gold.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on March 21, 2015, 09:49:22 AM
The call on Skara was questionable, but its ALWAYS called. The non-call on Keith is not. It was a foul.
In your photo the Skara foul looks questionable. (The Baltimore beat writer called him Peters too, on twitter.)
In the video replay it seemed pretty clear that Dodd got a lot of hand.
Quote from: agibson on March 21, 2015, 12:42:35 PM
Quote from: ValpoHoops on March 21, 2015, 09:49:22 AM
The call on Skara was questionable, but its ALWAYS called. The non-call on Keith is not. It was a foul.
In your photo the Skara foul looks questionable. (The Baltimore beat writer called him Peters too, on twitter.)
In the video replay it seemed pretty clear that Dodd got a lot of hand.
I disagree. I saw all ball. I thought that point of the game was huge for us.
Quote from: valpotx link=topic=2137.msg58040#msg58040
The Crusaders were down 3 with one last chance for coach Bryce Drew to draw up a winning play. He didn't need a length of the court pass as he did when he made the most famous shot in school history back in the 1998 tournament, but Valpo did need a 3.
The historical echoes were everywhere. Scott losing on a father-son three. Homer borrowing a pen and clearly shown on national TV drawing up an end-of-game play. Bryce's play failing to get a shot off.
Tough couple of days for the Drews.
Quote from: classof2014 on March 20, 2015, 10:13:38 PM
This was the closest game in the NCAA tournament for us since our run in 98. Maryland did not looks stronger than us nor did they look faster than us. Everybody said going into the game is that Maryland does a great job getting to the line and making their freethrows. What happened? Maryland got to the line and made their free throws and that was the reason they won. Both teams seemed pretty evenly matched and a few more bounces our way perhaps we pull off the upset.
I didn't study MD -so- carefully before the game.
But, while watching, I was figuring we did a pretty good job of taking them out of their game. The FTA differential wasn't so large. It seemed like their drivers and slashers were having to settle for perimeter shots. Vashil didn't register a block, but I figure his presence had a significant impact on strategy.
Not.going to blame refs, but 35 banged body and arm on Skara. He made a nice play and then stood over Skara. I was fine with the initial "big school intimidation" tactic but then he lingered too long and said a few words. I turned to my wife and declared T him up. We were right along the baseline. If he had walked away he doesn't get T'ed. Having been the recipient of a questionable end of regulation foul call against Detroit, it would be nice to know going into a game if the refs are not going to call the game the way they had been calling it when we get to 14 secs. Consistency is all you can ask for there and NuNez and company were not.
Anytime Maryland wants to play us again, let's do it - neutral court or better maybe they should toughen up and venture out to NW Indiana to better prepare for B1G conference environs. Oh wait, they still have a pile of debt to pay off.
The thing about a loss like that is there are multiple things to play over in your head, and over analyze for a whole offseason. Not boxing Wells at 1:44, missed freaking FTs, D Walker's quick trigger on a 3 with about 6 mins left, last play call? We're not talking about any of this without a hard fought, excellent effort. One thing this team needs to learn at tourney time and against bigger foes is "value the possession." WVU was not doing that vs Buffalo and Huggybear was losing it. Coach K pulled Okafor after blowing a dunk exclaiming you don't do that fancy freaking stuff (edited) in a NCAA tourney game.
Finally and positively, remember folks this team won 28 games! it won regular and conference tourney chips, it only lost 3 games from Feb 1 and by 1, 3 and 3. We have a good recruiting class coming in. BTW how's our RPI after that game?proud of the team, proud of the turn out in CBus yesterday, to see a big arena with 1000 plus Valpo clad fans is cool.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 21, 2015, 01:01:05 PM
BTW how's our RPI after that game?
A little surprisingly, it doesn't seem to have helped us. When I checked, we'd fallen to 54.
Maybe the top RPI losses have to happen on the road to help. Or maybe Md's RPI is too much opponents' w-l, nit enough their w-l.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 21, 2015, 02:27:22 AME Jordan Nickerson.
E
Jared Nickerson. The announcer must have been thinking of the Subway spokesman. ;D
Quote from: historyman on March 21, 2015, 01:41:54 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 21, 2015, 02:27:22 AME Jordan Nickerson.
E Jared Nickerson. The announcer must have been thinking of the Subway spokesman. ;D
Yeah he was saying "Jubril" afterwards on an assist, so I think the names sort of just blended together.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 21, 2015, 01:01:05 PM
Not.going to blame refs, but 35 banged body and arm on Skara. He made a nice play and then stood over Skara. I was fine with the initial "big school intimidation" tactic but then he lingered too long and said a few words. I turned to my wife and declared T him up. We were right along the baseline. If he had walked away he doesn't get T'ed. Having been the recipient of a questionable end of regulation foul call against Detroit, it would be nice to know going into a game if the refs are not going to call the game the way they had been calling it when we get to 14 secs. Consistency is all you can ask for there and NuNez and company were not.
Anytime Maryland wants to play us again, let's do it - neutral court or better maybe they should toughen up and venture out to NW Indiana to better prepare for B1G conference environs. Oh wait, they still have a pile of debt to pay off.
The thing about a loss like that is there are multiple things to play over in your head, and over analyze for a whole offseason. Not boxing Wells at 1:44, missed freaking FTs, D Walker's quick trigger on a 3 with about 6 mins left, last play call? We're not talking about any of this without a hard fought, excellent effort. One thing this team needs to learn at tourney time and against bigger foes is "value the possession." WVU was not doing that vs Buffalo and Huggybear was losing it. Coach K pulled Okafor after blowing a dunk exclaiming you don't do that fancy freaking stuff (edited) in a NCAA tourney game.
Finally and positively, remember folks this team won 28 games! it won regular and conference tourney chips, it only lost 3 games from Feb 1 and by 1, 3 and 3. We have a good recruiting class coming in. BTW how's our RPI after that game?proud of the team, proud of the turn out in CBus yesterday, to see a big arena with 1000 plus Valpo clad fans is cool.
Ditto to all but with an emphasis on missed free throws....the one place where you can be totally in charge of your own destiny. A few more made free throw would not only have increased the score but serve as a deterrent...and possible more opps to score. Overall so proud of this team and as well as the others that we have had the opportunity to love and support over the many years. ...Still very proud to be a front row fan
Quote from: Flinger29 on March 21, 2015, 09:26:57 AMNext time don't be down 3 points at the end of the game where a ref call can decide it.
I totally agree with this comment.
If Valpo had hit their FTs or some of those bunny put-backs there would not have been a need to make a three at the end of the game.
Quote from: historyman on March 21, 2015, 01:41:54 PMQuote from: StlVUFan on Today at 02:27:22 AM
E Jordan Nickerson.
E Jared Nickerson.
Now that the press and media have gotten wind of the Nickerson triplets and the Walker septilliontuplets I am expecting a full NCAA outstanding scholarship investigation.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on March 21, 2015, 09:49:22 AM
The call on Skara was questionable, but its ALWAYS called. The non-call on Keith is not. It was a foul.
As far as the technical, it appeared he said something to Skara on the floor and stood over him. I wish more officials would call this, to be honest.
That said, I don't think anyone here is blaming the officiating. We had a chance and didn't execute.
There were two possessions in particular...both of which we were down one. On the first, Darien took a terrible three and got yanked, on the second, we didn't block out and Wells got the and-one.
Those were the key points, to me.
[Photos by Kirk Irwin/Getty Images]
(http://i57.tinypic.com/1zwzspv.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2dugvhd.jpg)
Yeah, the guy had "all ball" with his hand, but what fans don't consider is that he also had "all arm" with his arm. That's as much an impediment as if he hit him on the wrist, just less noticeable. The ref absolutely made the right call. As to the KC no-call, replays show the closest ref literally 4 or 5 feet away looking directly at the ball. He could not possibly have failed to see what the picture shows. It's obvious he chose to swallow his whistle. As someone mentioned earlier, what isn't obvious from the picture is was KC actually in the act of shooting at the point contact was made. Guess we'll never know for sure.
Tweet from Tevonn:
MommaSaidKnockYouOut
@IcePhases
Its a learning experience i wont forget, and an opportunity i WILL again get. Just expect bigger and better things from this 514 product.
10:56 AM - 21 Mar 2015
Has anyone found any video from last night's post game press conference?
Quote from: wh on March 21, 2015, 05:42:39 PM
Has anyone found any video from last night's post game press conference?
On YouTube under March Madness. I forget the actual URL now.
You can tell that if Vashil touched the ball last, that it would have gone a different direction. It was off Maryland, as I am told many commentators mentioned.
Dodd got the ball on the block, but he also got arm/shoulder on Skara, with his shoulder. The call wasn't on the ball, but on the body foul. He then stood over Skara and didn't back away. It was an obvious technical foul for standing over an opponent after such a play. You can do that for a second, but not for 5 seconds like he did. I was yelling for a technical for a good 2 seconds before they called it. It was very poor discipline by your player to do such a thing. Both were the correct calls to make, and you are correct that everyone on Maryland's side was going nuts afterwards, but they were wrong.
Keith was just plain fouled as multiple publications and other viewers have mentioned. He might not have made all 3, but we should have had that chance. I did also think that the ball went out of bounds on that play, so we should have at least had the ball for a chance at a catch and shoot.
Does the NCAA make apologies for such a blatantly missed call on a last second shot, or do they just ignore it like it didn't happen? Also, that SI article mentions an interesting point about Dorsey being a Big 10 referee for several games. He was the ref standing just a few feet away from Ram's foul on Keith, and swallowed his whistle...
Quote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 10:50:53 PMYou can tell that if Vashil touched the ball last, that it would have gone a different direction. It was off Maryland, as I am told many commentators mentioned.
They showed an angle at the very end of the review and it looked as if MD hit the ball, but the tips of Vashil's fingers were still on the ball. They showed it and the end and only once, but I thought it was a clear angle.
Quote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 11:43:01 PMDoes the NCAA make apologies for such a blatantly missed call on a last second shot, or do they just ignore it like it didn't happen? Also, that SI article mentions an interesting point about Dorsey being a Big 10 referee for several games. He was the ref standing just a few feet away from Ram's foul on Keith, and swallowed his whistle...
I'm okay with ref's not calling every bit of body contact at the end, but you can't foul a shooter like that. In real time I didn't think it was a foul (clearly it was). There were missed calls on both ends, but we should have been on the line at the end. TBH, I doubt he hits all three, but you never know.
Right, we still might have lost, as making all 3 would be tough in a situation like that. We can say that we put ourselves in that situation by missing a few bunnies and FTs, but the simple fact is that we were still in position to tie the game on a last second shot, in spite of these other misses. We deserved the opportunity to take those 3 FTs, as it looks like he had all arm, and absolutely no ball. I would feel much better today if he made 2 of 3, rather than not even having the chance. Then we could solely blame missed opportunities, rather than missed calls.
Also, the fact that Ram says that he got it cleanly shows that he is a poor sport as well. Knowing that they can't make a call after the game finishes, I would have just said 'no comment,' as he obviously would have known that he did smack the crap out of Keith's arm.
Quote from: Valpo18 on March 21, 2015, 11:51:52 PMQuote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 11:43:01 PM
Does the NCAA make apologies for such a blatantly missed call on a last second shot, or do they just ignore it like it didn't happen? Also, that SI article mentions an interesting point about Dorsey being a Big 10 referee for several games. He was the ref standing just a few feet away from Ram's foul on Keith, and swallowed his whistle...
I'm okay with ref's not calling every bit of body contact at the end, but you can't foul a shooter like that. In real time I didn't think it was a foul (clearly it was). There were missed calls on both ends, but we should have been on the line at the end. TBH, I doubt he hits all three, but you never know.
Dorsey is also the official who had the block call and the charge call on Alec. I have yet to watch the TV broadcast of the game, but neither seemed right in person. Especially the fact that he gave Wells shots on the first one. Wells had thrown the ball 20 feet into the air well before he hit Alec it seemed.
But again...we had many chances to not be in that position, so anywhere we look has to start with the mirror.
When we got to the nationwide arena and found out no beer was served. ....I was sad.
"We wish we could play tomorrow and kick the crap out of somebody to make it feel better," said sophomore Alec Peters, the likely front-runner for Horizon League Player of the Year in 2016. "The reality is, it's going to be six months or whatever before we can take out our aggression."
--Alec Peters--
Quote from: vu72 on March 22, 2015, 09:14:24 AM"We wish we could play tomorrow and kick the crap out of somebody to make it feel better," said sophomore Alec Peters, the likely front-runner for Horizon League Player of the Year in 2016. "The reality is, it's going to be six months or whatever before we can take out our aggression."
Nice!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-st-0322-20150321-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-st-0322-20150321-story.html)
Even as I watched the game end, I couldn't be disappointed. All I wanted to see out of this game was for us to make it a game; to keep it close, to play hard, to NOT LET NERVES OVERCOME US and to play our game, the way we have all season. Even though we were on the losing end of the score, it's very difficult to not consider this the biggest moral victory since placing 3rd at the Great Alaska Shootout in 1999, or the 1997 Boston College loss. If we can keep this group together, we will be a force to be reckoned with next season, for sure. We'll be a marked team, but we were marked in the HL Tourney anyway and won despite injuries to significant players. Additionally, if Smits and Relvao develop as quickly as Tevonn and Skara have... look out!
I've heard a lot of talk about "how free throws killed us". Well, yes; they've been this way all season, we just have never seen the missed-FT issue cost us a ballgame.
I've heard a lot about the two calls at the end of the game that "decided it". There were a few calls that went our way earlier in the game that absolutely should not have, so I'm not sold on those two calls deciding the game. For one, I'd say Maryland's post defense decided the game (or our lack of being able to penetrate that defense). Or, yes, free throws. Those two things.
Would it have been nice to win? Absolutely! But, let's not forget how special 1998 was, and that they were a senior-laden bunch with an All-American player. Expecting 1998 every time we make the tournament is foolhardy. But again, taking into consideration how young we are and how close we came... there is absolute reason to be happy! Imagine if we had allowed the nerves to get to us, or had Peters or Tevonn not hit shots all game. We'd have been blown out and we'd yet again have to deal with the national Valpo-doesn't-belong-in-the-conversation label. At the very least, we showed up, we played respectfully with a top-10 team on the national stage... and came up just a bit short. Admit it: it was a VERY good season. Better than any of us expected.
And, in looking at this team, and how well they play together, there's now a reasonable expectation we can notch another NCAA win within the next few years.
Thanks guys! So proud of all of you! Proud to be a Crusader fan!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: agibson on March 22, 2015, 10:19:41 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 22, 2015, 09:14:24 AM"We wish we could play tomorrow and kick the crap out of somebody to make it feel better," said sophomore Alec Peters, the likely front-runner for Horizon League Player of the Year in 2016. "The reality is, it's going to be six months or whatever before we can take out our aggression."
Nice!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-st-0322-20150321-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-mens-basketball-valparaiso-st-0322-20150321-story.html)
Any doubt where the leadership is coming from?
Love Alec's comments...I think the biggest thing that happened this season was that in the Tourney, we FINALLY found out that we can play with anybody. Disappointing? Yes, but up to this year it always appeared that our guys were overwhelmed and intimidated by "big name" programs. Butler's success was always that they felt they could play with anybody...and they did... with confidence. I'm hoping that this last game will finally be a start to getting us to that level also. Great season for a great group of kids and an outstanding coaching staff. Let's get the 2015-16 season started!!
Quote from: valpo64 on March 22, 2015, 01:26:25 PM
Love Alec's comments...I think the biggest thing that happened this season was that in the Tourney, we FINALLY found out that we can play with anybody. Disappointing? Yes, but up to this year it always appeared that our guys were overwhelmed and intimidated by "big name" programs. Butler's success was always that they felt they could play with anybody...and they did... with confidence. I'm hoping that this last game will finally be a start to getting us to that level also. Great season for a great group of kids and an outstanding coaching staff. Let's get the 2015-16 season started!!
First, I'll say that the idea of success some Valpo fans have (the ability to beat a handful of teams from certain conferences while completely ignoring how good the actual teams we play are and showing the amount of respect for mid majors that you'd find from Kansas fans) and the unrealistic expectations (that we turn the program into the next Wichita State, which was a FF program and a team that had an undefeated season... or a Butler, you know, the team that made back-to-back championship game runs and is now in the Big East with athletic budgets 3 times our size) makes me want to quit watching basketball forever.
But I do think this team has the confidence we haven't really see before. The 2013 team at times got rattled, would go extremely long stretches without scoring, and turned the ball over at alarming rates. I thought Valpo played with a lot of swagger Friday, throwing alley oops (okay maybe some didn't work out too well), Skara trying to posterize Wells, Nickerson draining the deep 3 to tie the game late, running traps in a 2-3 zone (something we didn't even see in conference too much), Alec and Walker taking it right to the rack consistently... We actually won the turnover battle and had more offensive rebounds. We played with confidence because we could physically play with a top 3 Big 10 team. You couldn't say that about a Valpo team since 1998, and even then we would be extremely undersized and physically inferior.
Quote from: BrownTown on March 22, 2015, 11:44:11 AM
I've heard a lot of talk about "how free throws killed us". Well, yes; they've been this way all season
The poor free throw shooting is the one thing I have never understood, especially for a team coached by Bryce Drew in the city of Valparaiso, home of the Valpo method of foul shooting used by many of the best free-throw shooters in Crusader history: Bryce, Casey Schmidt, Rob Cavanaugh, Mike Jones, David Redmon, etc.
Quote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 02:59:12 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 21, 2015, 02:29:22 AM
Quote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 02:12:18 AMAlso, Talksalot had the pleasure of meeting me, without knowing that the loud/annoying kid next to him and his wife, was this guy
If I recall correctly, I think I was sitting a row or two behind you in section 114. ValpoHoops was a few rows down from you, if I'm right.
Yep, I was row S in 114. Sorry if I stood up too much, but I get excited and worked up when Valpo is playing :)
Row S was certainly the Happenin' row at Nationwide... I did look behind me to see if they were standing before I did...everytime I looked, they were already standing.... What I missed the most was not being to stick around and cheer for the team like we did in Saint Louis 17 years ago... that was magical.... but they needed to empty that arena in a hurry. I almost felt sorry for the Session 2 fans waiting outside to get in...almost sorry.
I have no particular feelings for or against Maryland but I didn't appreciate Turgeon's remarks at halftime which seemed dismissive of Valpo. Most coaches, no matter the score, will say the other side is tough and playing great and we know they'll be coming at us. Something along those lines. Turgeon basically said they hadn't played very well and Valpo made some shots they apparently weren't supposed to make. No credit at all to the opponent. If I was Bryce, I'd have called timeout and showed it to the team.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 21, 2015, 05:57:28 PM
Quote from: wh on March 21, 2015, 05:42:39 PM
Has anyone found any video from last night's post game press conference?
On YouTube under March Madness. I forget the actual URL now.
Has anyone been able to locate the post-game video? I didn't see it in the YouTube collection, but perhaps I missed it.
Quote from: valpopal on March 22, 2015, 07:31:18 PM
The poor free throw shooting is the one thing I have never understood, especially for a team coached by Bryce Drew in the city of Valparaiso, home of the Valpo method of foul shooting used by many of the best free-throw shooters in Crusader history: Bryce, Casey Schmidt, Rob Cavanaugh, Mike Jones, David Redmon, etc.
I'm going to tell you why, in the city of Valparaiso, free throw shooting has been a problem at the university.
No one knows how to PROPERLY TEACH the Valpo Free Throw Method.
The two best teachers of the method are Virgil Sweet and Skip Collins. Bryce, I'm guessing, never was taught the method by those two.
Other good teachers would include Lew Rhinehart, who was an assistant when Bryce was at VHS.
The only way for it to translate to VU would be for Bryce to spend serious time with Mr. Sweet or Mr. Collins. Learning how to TEACH the method.
Then there's the other problem of convincing a Division I basketball player to change the way he's shot free throws his entire life.
It doesn't do any good to "shoot a lot of free throws in practice" if the method you are using is wrong. Vashil may practice a lot, but he's not practicing them the right way.
Lew Rhinehart was my childhood next door neighbor. My dad still plows his driveway every winter. Hmmm...Lew time to to pay up for all that free plowing
Quote from: sliman on March 23, 2015, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 21, 2015, 05:57:28 PM
Quote from: wh on March 21, 2015, 05:42:39 PM
Has anyone found any video from last night's post game press conference?
On YouTube under March Madness. I forget the actual URL now.
Has anyone been able to locate the post-game video? I didn't see it in the YouTube collection, but perhaps I missed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqt93iVOFnY&index=17&list=PLXCWZ2G0LOauIvJL6MMWzH1cUlNEiX0Wg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqt93iVOFnY&index=17&list=PLXCWZ2G0LOauIvJL6MMWzH1cUlNEiX0Wg)
Quote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 02:59:12 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 21, 2015, 02:29:22 AM
Quote from: valpotx on March 21, 2015, 02:12:18 AMAlso, Talksalot had the pleasure of meeting me, without knowing that the loud/annoying kid next to him and his wife, was this guy
If I recall correctly, I think I was sitting a row or two behind you in section 114. ValpoHoops was a few rows down from you, if I'm right.
Yep, I was row S in 114. Sorry if I stood up too much, but I get excited and worked up when Valpo is playing :)
Wow, I was in row T. Strangers in the night ...
VU2624, I think you are over interpreting this. The game was very competitive and I would leave it at that.
I like how half of us were at the game, probably chatted with each other at some point, and still nobody has any idea who anybody is ><
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 23, 2015, 03:45:15 PM
Quote from: valpopal on March 22, 2015, 07:31:18 PM
The poor free throw shooting is the one thing I have never understood, especially for a team coached by Bryce Drew in the city of Valparaiso, home of the Valpo method of foul shooting used by many of the best free-throw shooters in Crusader history: Bryce, Casey Schmidt, Rob Cavanaugh, Mike Jones, David Redmon, etc.
I'm going to tell you why, in the city of Valparaiso, free throw shooting has been a problem at the university.
No one knows how to PROPERLY TEACH the Valpo Free Throw Method.
The two best teachers of the method are Virgil Sweet and Skip Collins. Bryce, I'm guessing, never was taught the method by those two.
Other good teachers would include Lew Rhinehart, who was an assistant when Bryce was at VHS.
The only way for it to translate to VU would be for Bryce to spend serious time with Mr. Sweet or Mr. Collins. Learning how to TEACH the method.
Then there's the other problem of convincing a Division I basketball player to change the way he's shot free throws his entire life.
It doesn't do any good to "shoot a lot of free throws in practice" if the method you are using is wrong. Vashil may practice a lot, but he's not practicing them the right way.
Great points. FT shooting comes to some players naturally. Others not so much. A tried and true METHOD can work, especially with coachable kids like the guys we go after. Chuck Kriston in the 62-64 time frame was a VHS grad and a Sweet protege and sunk freebies at over 90%.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 23, 2015, 04:46:25 PM
Quote from: sliman on March 23, 2015, 10:40:04 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 21, 2015, 05:57:28 PM
Quote from: wh on March 21, 2015, 05:42:39 PM
Has anyone found any video from last night's post game press conference?
On YouTube under March Madness. I forget the actual URL now.
Has anyone been able to locate the post-game video? I didn't see it in the YouTube collection, but perhaps I missed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqt93iVOFnY&index=17&list=PLXCWZ2G0LOauIvJL6MMWzH1cUlNEiX0Wg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqt93iVOFnY&index=17&list=PLXCWZ2G0LOauIvJL6MMWzH1cUlNEiX0Wg)
Thanks for the link. Was interested to hear if Maryland showed us any respect.
Quote from: truth219 on March 23, 2015, 03:49:27 PMLew Rhinehart was my childhood next door neighbor. My dad still plows his driveway every winter. Hmmm...Lew time to to pay up for all that free plowing
When I was in high school Herr Rhinehart was "die Deutsch Lehrer."
My father and I came back for session 2 about 45-50 minutes later, and they still hadn't let anyone in. Btw, I give the Dayton Flyers fan base my new award for most obnoxious, but also the most zoned in. Their band plays the same freaking, 'goooooooooooooooooooooooo Dayton Flyyyyyers,' song about 20 times throughout their games. I have 'D...A...Y...T...O.O.O.O.N....DAYTON....FLYERS,' still stuck in my head. I definitely understood Providence's coach saying after the game, 'neutral site,' in response to most questions about the game. That whole place was rocking with Dayton fans, and you had a Providence section that was probably 1/3 of what we brought to the game. Also, Dayton fans are just about as full of themselves as Butler fans. The guy I was sitting next to at the game was basically talking like they are Kentucky, referencing how they were in the 50s and 60s, and saying that Valpo would be bottom of the A-10, 'no offense.' I didn't want to tell him that we would have beaten Providence by more points than they did, as Providence looked like crap. PCs leading scorer was 7/26 in the game, 7...for...26!! He was bricking them all over the place, and Dayton started the game 1/12. We would have beaten both teams, had we played like we did against Maryland.
responding to a bunch. ...
Thanks for posting the link to the post game interview
Maryland's coach did kind of dismiss us at half time (Bryce and Alec did a great job of saying Maryland played well during the post game - it just sounds better. I have no respect for Waters because he said Valpo didn't beat them during a post game interview. )
I still say seeding is super critical (same as normal critical but wearing a cape) and I think we would have upset many teams if we had been moved up one seeding number. ... (However, fan support might have been different because it would not have been so close to home)
As for the foul - I don't think you can say that it is a "wash" because of something that was called in your favor earlier.... Game flow changes earlier and teams do different things to adjust. ... A missed call with no time left is just that - a missed call. .. You have no game left to make a different plan for the rest of the game - it is over. Bryce was gracious during his post game. I would have said - the refs, just like us, have a job to do - the last few seconds of this game i think you could say that neither of us did our job the way we probably wanted to. ...
There is no question that Maryland Coach Mark Turgeon dissed our program at half time saying we hit some threes even though Valpo is not a good shooting team. The look and tone of his comments to the reporter at half said it all. I had the impression that he didn't like having to play us and that it was below their dignity having to do it.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 24, 2015, 01:01:49 PM
There is no question that Maryland Coach Mark Turgeon dissed our program at half time saying we hit some threes even though Valpo is not a good shooting team. The look and tone of his comments to the reporter at half said it all. I had the impression that he didn't like having to play us and that it was below their dignity having to do it.
He wasn't much better in the post game though he did compliment Peters. Once again we won't get respect until we win a few of these games against the big schools.
Quote from: valpotx on March 24, 2015, 01:15:39 AM
My father and I came back for session 2 about 45-50 minutes later, and they still hadn't let anyone in. Btw, I give the Dayton Flyers fan base my new award for most obnoxious, but also the most zoned in. Their band plays the same freaking, 'goooooooooooooooooooooooo Dayton Flyyyyyers,' song about 20 times throughout their games. I have 'D...A...Y...T...O.O.O.O.N....DAYTON....FLYERS,' still stuck in my head. I definitely understood Providence's coach saying after the game, 'neutral site,' in response to most questions about the game. That whole place was rocking with Dayton fans, and you had a Providence section that was probably 1/3 of what we brought to the game. Also, Dayton fans are just about as full of themselves as Butler fans. The guy I was sitting next to at the game was basically talking like they are Kentucky, referencing how they were in the 50s and 60s, and saying that Valpo would be bottom of the A-10, 'no offense.' I didn't want to tell him that we would have beaten Providence by more points than they did, as Providence looked like crap. PCs leading scorer was 7/26 in the game, 7...for...26!! He was bricking them all over the place, and Dayton started the game 1/12. We would have beaten both teams, had we played like we did against Maryland.
Dayton has a similar relationship to Xavier as we have to Butler, only theirs makes ours look downright civil. They have a true inferiority complex when it comes to Xavier and it appears this fan tries to make up for it by dissing other programs. Just makes them look even smaller. If you had asked him how he felt about Xavier leaving them behind when they moved to the Big East you would really have gotten an earfull!
Quote from: valpotx on March 24, 2015, 01:15:39 AM
My father and I came back for session 2 about 45-50 minutes later, and they still hadn't let anyone in. Btw, I give the Dayton Flyers fan base my new award for most obnoxious, but also the most zoned in. Their band plays the same freaking, 'goooooooooooooooooooooooo Dayton Flyyyyyers,' song about 20 times throughout their games. I have 'D...A...Y...T...O.O.O.O.N....DAYTON....FLYERS,' still stuck in my head. I definitely understood Providence's coach saying after the game, 'neutral site,' in response to most questions about the game. That whole place was rocking with Dayton fans, and you had a Providence section that was probably 1/3 of what we brought to the game. Also, Dayton fans are just about as full of themselves as Butler fans. The guy I was sitting next to at the game was basically talking like they are Kentucky, referencing how they were in the 50s and 60s, and saying that Valpo would be bottom of the A-10, 'no offense.' I didn't want to tell him that we would have beaten Providence by more points than they did, as Providence looked like crap. PCs leading scorer was 7/26 in the game, 7...for...26!! He was bricking them all over the place, and Dayton started the game 1/12. We would have beaten both teams, had we played like we did against Maryland.
I was in section 223 for the evening session (my nose is still bleeding), and for the Dayton-Princeton game, two Flyers fans sat right in front of me and stood for half the game. The only saving grace was that because of the sharp incline I could just peer between the shoulders (after leaning forward) and see the entire court. They didn't even notice me.
I concur on both your assessments of their fanbase.
Quote from: historyman on March 24, 2015, 01:12:30 AMWhen I was in high school Herr Rhinehart was "die Deutsch Lehrer."
you were? what years?
StlVUFan, how did Princeton get into the game against Dayton? I'm sure Providence College would have rather been Princeton in this game.
In terms of how we played against Maryland, a handful of layups or free throws go in the net, and we aren't talking about how we didn't get any respect from Turgeon. We'd be hearing about how his Corn Flakes tasted like piss and vinegar. We didn't play a terrible game, just had shots that didn't fall. Maryland wasn't dominant, so obviously Turgeon didn't know what words to put together for how his team was playing against Valpo.
Finally, in terms of our season schedule, yes, I didn't like that we had three non-D1 games on our schedule, but we were a young team with 2 seniors, and not a lot of combined experience together, so we took what games we could get to see what kind of team we would really have as the season went on. Yes, a handful of the teams we played didn't give us much competition at all, but we finally had a season that we could sit back and enjoy, give or take the injuries and the sudden fall from 70 point games to battling to final scores in the 50s and 60s. We got to see a good team grow before our eyes. When was the last time we saw a young team grow together, and prove that they belong in Valpo uniforms? Those non-D1 games were intentionally planned, in case we had some bad games and terrible losses, or just needed a game to rest tired legs. I hope we don't have 3 of this type of game next year, but I also don't want to replace 3 non-D1 games with 3 low-level bad RPI schools in D1 with a team like ours. We'll need the challenge of good games all season long, but having a game or two after a long stretch of tourney play that allows for resting starters is not a bad thing at all. I think the scheduling of Goshen, Trinity, and IUSB did play to our favor, even though those games were surrounded by mostly subpar competition. I don't want us jumping the gun next season for guarantee games like Oakland had, but I would like to see a Kansas State, Florida, Temple, Tulane, Connecticut, Richmond, George Washington, St. Bonaventure, Pittsburgh, Florida St., Clemson, or Minnesota..all middle of their Power 5 conference or A-10, instead of the schedule we had this season. Will we get any of these teams? Most likely not, unless we get into a tourney with any of them. With the team we have returning, are any of these games crazy for us? I don't think so. We could win any of these, but we'd get great competition for our experienced, older team. I yearn for the year when our roster reflects more minutes from veterans, so probably 16-17 season, where we'll have a handful of seniors and juniors, unlike this season. Then we should be making a major splash not only in the HL, but in the NCAA Tournament.
Quote from: valporun on March 25, 2015, 09:51:34 AMStlVUFan, how did Princeton get into the game against Dayton? I'm sure Providence College would have rather been Princeton in this game.
DOH! :-[
Quote from: valporun on March 25, 2015, 09:51:34 AMIn terms of how we played against Maryland, a handful of layups or free throws go in the net, and we aren't talking about how we didn't get any respect from Turgeon. We'd be hearing about how his Corn Flakes tasted like piss and vinegar. We didn't play a terrible game, just had shots that didn't fall. Maryland wasn't dominant, so obviously Turgeon didn't know what words to put together for how his team was playing against Valpo.
:clap:
You might argue that he's not smart to be dismissive, but how that hurts us is something I don't get, except on a purely emotional level of perception. If you're still in meatball mode, you're going to react angrily to such dismissiveness, but rationally, it really doesn't affect us negatively.
If anything, we could take it as a compliment: if he's resorting to that kind of attitude, it means we've gotten under his skin.
Anyone with half a brain knows our guys belonged on that court with Maryland after the game was over. If somehow Turgeon were on an island somewhere believing differently, that would be his loss.
oh cool. i was hoping we overlapped but no.
He was my coach in 10th grade (1973-1974).
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 26, 2015, 04:13:38 PMHe was my coach in 10th grade (1973-1974).
So he was one of the great old guard (when I was there) who unfortunately all retired and were not adequately replaced (hence VHS' spiraling decline).
Interesting! His kids were my age or younger though...like classes of '95 and '98. Were there other kids?
(I'd feel bad for going off topic but this thread is as dead as the game.)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 26, 2015, 08:12:46 PMwho unfortunately all retired and were not adequately replaced (hence VHS' spiraling decline)
My younger sibling probably attended during that decline (early 80s, I believe)
Oh, well; I don't doubt that there were some issues in the 80s and even into the 90s (LSD comes to mind), but it was still very much an excellent school with great teachers and great programs. But after the greatest generation retired (a partial list: Reggie, Collins, Bird, Lebryk, Bowman, etc.) they were not adequately replaced. Part of this was due to attrition at superintendent and principal levels, as well.
The many awards we won in the 90s will testify to that, and even in the early 00s (I spent 2 years working there later) it was still very good. But signs of a decline were there, and since then, I have heard stories that scare me.
I'm thus 'happy' to assure you that the decline is much more recent than both of us.
LSD? Lakeshore Drive? Timothy Leary?
I'm curious, what sort of awards were there in the 90's?
I've had a little taste of VCS currently, but have little knowledge about the past.
In recent years, one sees VHS with "Indiana Four Star School" status, and some of the elementaries with "National Blue Ribbon" status, and certainly winning state-wide academic competitions and the like.
Hard to know what all of that means. But, I'm curious, what sorts of distinctions was the place, or system, garnering in the "glory days"?
Relative to other school systems in Indiana - better SAT scores, better I-Step scores, better graduation rates. Valpo used to be considered a model school system mentioned in the same breath as Carmel, for instance. No longer. Just this past year 1 of the middle schools (TJ?) and 2 or 3 grade grade schools received C grades from the state school grading system. The model school system in Porter County and 1 of the best in the state by the numbers is now the East Porter County school system. They really have their act together - excellent administrators, strong teaching staff, students heavily involved in extracurricular activities, almost obsessive parental involvement and support (strongly encouraged), and zero tolerance for drugs and bullying.
Quote from: agibson on March 27, 2015, 12:00:14 PMLSD? Lakeshore Drive? Timothy Leary?
The latter, unfortunately. It was in the early 90s, before I got there, but was a huge bust/deal then.
There were a number of awards and national rankings...specifics elude me now, but I wish I could remember. I believe there were US News-like rankings. Obviously being the first school in like a 3-state radius to be awarded the IB program was a huge feather. We were always top-3 in the state with Chesterton and Carmel.
And the music department got VHS named a "GRAMMY Signature School" multiple times in the early-mid 00s (I know because I filled out the applications : )
I feel bad because I left out many names that occurred to me after I had submitted my post. Case in point: Doc Stuber and Doc Boyle. I can pretty much guarantee no one there has a doctorate these days :(
Quote from: wh on March 27, 2015, 01:23:06 PM
Relative to other school systems in Indiana - better SAT scores, better I-Step scores, better graduation rates. Valpo used to be considered a model school system mentioned in the same breath as Carmel, for instance. No longer. Just this past year 1 of the middle schools (TJ?) and 2 or 3 grade grade schools received C grades from the state school grading system. The model school system in Porter County and 1 of the best in the state by the numbers is now the East Porter County school system. They really have their act together - excellent administrators, strong teaching staff, students heavily involved in extracurricular activities, almost obsessive parental involvement and support (strongly encouraged), and zero tolerance for drugs and bullying.
Interesting - thanks for the pointers.
The state conveniently presents the last nine years of school grades in an Excel spreadsheet - so pardon me geeking out a little.
http://www.doe.in.gov/news/indiana-department-education-releases-2013-2014-school-and-corporation-accountability-grades (http://www.doe.in.gov/news/indiana-department-education-releases-2013-2014-school-and-corporation-accountability-grades)
But, first, do these report cards have a reasonable reputation? Do they tell us something useful?
Carmel definitely looks sterling. Over 15 schools, nine years for most of them, there are a total of only 5 B's.
East Porter (Washington and Morgan Townships, Kouts) does seem probably a notch above VCS. In the latest year (2014 - this release was Nov 2014) their average, over 6 schools (3 elementary, 3 mid/high) was 3.84. Only 3 C's out of 54 chances in the last 9 years (about 5%).
I don't know if it's really fair to compare the directly to VCS (Valpo), which has a bunch of elementary schools ("community" schools) funneling down to just two mids and one high school. But, VCS' average last year was 3.75. But, over the last nine years, definitely more C's. About 15% of the possible opportunities.
In 2014 TJ Middle did pick up a C (2.75). With Ben Franklin and Flint Lake (Elementary) picking up B's (3.25's). Everybody else got A's.
The elementary schools in VCS generally seem to rate well, almost all A's and B's over the last nine years. The only exception is TJ Elementary, which once got a D (?!). That out of 8*9=72 elementary school grades.
TJ Middle has only one A. And, both Ben Franklin and the High School have been a mix of A's, B's, and C's.
So, far from an unblemished record. But, I don't know what it really means.
Of the elementary schools in Valparaiso, Central is near-perfect, with a single B. And Northview managed all A's. I'll count my lucky stars, I guess (it's my kids' school). Or, should I just thank my relatively privileged/affluent neighbors? (few "renters", a pox on all who rent!, as I've done for most of my adult life; and, to be clear, my neighborhood is far from a row of McMansions).
I'll have to see if I can find some individual report cards.
How's that for a thread tangent?
Quote from: agibson on March 27, 2015, 05:08:40 PMOf the elementary schools in Valparaiso, Central is near-perfect, with a single B. And Northview managed all A's. I'll count my lucky stars, I guess (it's my kids' school). Or, should I just thank my relatively privileged/affluent neighbors?
And, just to peek at some data that touches on economic affluence, let's take a look at the free/reduced lunch rate (and big points to VCS for transparency - a lot of data on these report cards is very easily browseable from their web pages). Overall VCS is at 27.5% (compare Carmel Clay at 9.8%, statewide average seems to be 49.2% - how about them apples?).
Northview Elementary's not the lowest (19.3%), but it's in the bottom group.
The real achievement points probably should go to Central (37.2%).
Yes, BF's the more affluent school (19.3% to TJ Middle's 35.5%).
So, this already makes me think twice about the Indiana report cards. They do seem to award some points for "growth" as opposed to raw performance. But, I wonder if these results should somehow be curved based on economic profile.
Some VCS details, below.
27.5% VCS free/reduced overall
(compare to Carmel Clay at 9.8%)
BF 19.3% free/reduced
TJ Mid 35.5%
Northview 19.3%
Central 37.2%
Flint Lake 45%
TJ Elementary 46.2%
Cooks Corners 26.9%
Hayes 12.4%
Memorial 18.1%
Parkview 43.8%
I suppose that's (one of?) the downside to "community" schools. A variation by more than a factor of three in free/reduced lunch rate between schools in the same district, that feed into the same high school!
Quote from: agibson on March 27, 2015, 05:28:23 PMYes, BF's the more affluent school (19.3% to TJ Middle's 35.5%).
To me this is hilarious, because my alma mater was consistently frowned on and derided by rich parents. even teachers zoned for BF sent their kids to TJ to avoid the "undesirables".
Also, Northview, woot! My other alma mater. 1990 STATE CHAMPS
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 27, 2015, 07:31:14 PM
Also, Northview, woot! My other alma mater. 1990 STATE CHAMPS
Spell bowl?
Naw, that was before spell bowl.
It was the early days of computer testing and I captained a team that took a test on Ye Olde 5.25" Floppy and we submitted it and got to go to the championships in Lexington where we lost to a team from Massillon (OH) in the championship.
I still haven't forgiven the Post-Trib for titling their article "They used electronic brains to win" as though the computer were doing the work.
Of course I don't think the Vidette-Mess even RAN an article. So.
Good times.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 27, 2015, 07:31:14 PM
Quote from: agibson on March 27, 2015, 05:28:23 PMYes, BF's the more affluent school (19.3% to TJ Middle's 35.5%).
To me this is hilarious, because my alma mater was consistently frowned on and derided by rich parents. even teachers zoned for BF sent their kids to TJ to avoid the "undesirables".
Also, Northview, woot! My other alma mater. 1990 STATE CHAMPS
BF was bad memories for me until it moved to where the old high school was. I lived across the street ;)
I think I left Immanuel too early, to tell you the truth. I was not confident in myself to begin with, and BF was a culture shock to me. Boy was I an easy target.
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 27, 2015, 10:00:47 PMuntil it moved to where the old high school was.
Ah, I knew the high school used to be there. But, I hadn't thought about the middle school. Where was the old BF?
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 27, 2015, 09:17:31 PMthat took a test on Ye Olde 5.25" Floppy
It was some sort of computer science/computer literacy test?
Quote from: agibson on March 27, 2015, 10:45:50 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on March 27, 2015, 10:00:47 PMuntil it moved to where the old high school was.
Ah, I knew the high school used to be there. But, I hadn't thought about the middle school. Where was the old BF?
The building that is now Central Elementary used to be BF Junior High (that is, it housed grades 7 - 9). At that time, any student who rode the bus went to TJ. Everyone at BF walked or rode their bike to school.
As indicated, school grades (and other measures of school performance) are a measure of the the socio-economic background of the students (note: socio and economic). East Porter has small schools and almost no rental properties in their districts. Morgan has no apartments in the township. While over all students meet the minima measured by school grades, Valpo is much more likely to have National Merit semi-finalists and kids going off to Ivy League schools. Is that because of the superior education? No, it's because of the advantages they had due to their parents, their relatives, and their social group. Valpo has the advantage of having a high tax base and can pay their teachers (and all of their employees) more than any other district in the county. A good student can get a good education at any school in the county.
Quote from: agibson on March 27, 2015, 10:49:00 PMIt was some sort of computer science/computer literacy test?
no, general knowledge. multiple choice on the test, then the finals were a team-style quiz show format.
my 5th grade teacher says he'll always remember that somehow I knew the two family members that accompanied marco polo to china. random.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 28, 2015, 09:41:37 AMthat somehow I knew the two family members that accompanied marco polo to china.
Not bad!
I couldn't touch those two - didn't know they existed.
I have somewhat distinct memories of such a contest, involving a Great Auk. Google suggests it was called Knowledge Master. Not sure in what grades it started. It _may_ have been around in middle school, which for me would have been... Yeah, I guess right around the period you mention. I think it continued in high school, but was not the main focus of our Scholastic Bowl activities (IL State Champs - woot!) at that point.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 28, 2015, 06:02:02 AMEast Porter has small schools and almost no rental properties in their districts. Morgan has no apartments in the township. While over all students meet the minima measured by school grades, Valpo is much more likely to have National Merit semi-finalists and kids going off to Ivy League schools.
Yeah, don't get me stared on minima. It's absolutely critical that we get the vast majority of our students above a reasonable minimum bar. But, we need to push _all_ of our students to achieve at the level of their abilities. And, I worry that some of the latest round of testing - and the huge amount of focus there - distracts from this goal.
As for economic levels (obviously F/R lunch levels aren't a perfect metric here, certainly not for social/cultural issues, but they're the numbers I have handy), Morgan's at Hayes Leonard (very low! 11-12%) levels. And all of East Porter would be in the bottom tier of the Valpo schools, so relatively affluent. About 20% for the district overall. Somehow Kouts and Washington both have a split between the elementary and the mid/high with the elementary ~27% (close to the Valpo average), and the mid/high ~20%.
QuoteValpo has the advantage of having a high tax base
I've never had a good grasp of the current funding formula. With the sales tax regime, shouldn't it depend not-so-strongly on the housing prices in the area?
Two important referenda coming up in Valparaiso on that question (one for infrastructure, one to raise operating funds for X years).
QuoteA good student can get a good education at any school in the county.
That may well be true - and is a good place to start. Opportunities for particular students may depend more on school size, or particular peers, student-teacher fits, interests, etc, etc, than on these broad-based (and obvious very particular/skewed) metrics.
Quote from: agibson on March 28, 2015, 11:54:28 AMI have somewhat distinct memories of such a contest, involving a Great Auk. Google suggests it was called Knowledge Master. Not sure in what grades it started. It _may_ have been around in middle school, which for me would have been... Yeah, I guess right around the period you mention. I think it continued in high school, but was not the main focus of our Scholastic Bowl activities (IL State Champs - woot!) at that point.
Here we go, for the contest I'm talking about
http://www.greatauk.com/halloffame.html (http://www.greatauk.com/halloffame.html)
National champs, at least. Didn't easily find a state-by-state listing.
I don't remember if I was involved in the HS contest in 93-94, or not. I suppose I'd probably remember if I was. I do recall feeling edged-out by Montgomery Blair and Thomas Jefferson (who I knew more about - even visited once).
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 28, 2015, 06:02:02 AMThe building that is now Central Elementary used to be BF Junior High (that is, it housed grades 7 - 9). At that time, any student who rode the bus went to TJ. Everyone at BF walked or rode their bike to school.
I can't remember for sure, but I think I rode the bus to BF in 7th and 8th grades. I remember I wore white socks a few times and other kids started calling me "bus driver" as a derogatory name. I know I didn't walk to school until 9th grade as mentioned, then rode the bus to high school, of course.
Quote from: agibson on March 28, 2015, 11:54:28 AMGreat Auk. Google suggests it was called Knowledge Master
I never did that as a player, but coached St. Paul's teams for a year. Infinitely worse to watch them miss things...like a Cassandra...that you already know :/