One writer's bucket list: All of his must-see mid-major venues
From the classics, to the bandboxes, to...Grand Canyon.
by Patrick Toner@PTonero Jun 8, 2017, 9:17am PDT
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/6/8/15743024/mid-major-arena-bucket-list-siegel-center-palestra-jadwin-gonzaga
Quote from: wh on June 08, 2017, 12:23:11 PM
One writer's bucket list: All of his must-see mid-major venues
From the classics, to the bandboxes, to...Grand Canyon.
by Patrick Toner@PTonero Jun 8, 2017, 9:17am PDT
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/6/8/15743024/mid-major-arena-bucket-list-siegel-center-palestra-jadwin-gonzaga
Yep, Valpo made the list -- the only MVC arena to do so. ( I like the way that sounds :thumbsup:)
In addition beneath the main article was this:
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017/5/25/15691000/we-should-all-be-as-hyped-as-valparaiso-crusaders-missouri-valley-conference-mvc-realignment-horizon
Conference Realignment: We should all be as hyped as Valparaiso is to join the Missouri Valley ConferenceLots of love going our way.
Is this the same ARC everyone complains about?
Quote from: oklahomamick on June 08, 2017, 01:18:26 PM
Is this the same ARC everyone complains about?
[/quote
:rotfl: :rotfl:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Noahs_Ark.jpg)
I graduated from High School in #3 on their list (Jadwin Cage) Nice pictures... and it's hard to argue with the list...
UNI has a really nice facility and the fans can get into it when they are successful.
Long Beach also has a cool arena
I found it interesting that other than BYU (why would a 19000 seat arena be a "must-see"?), New Mexico and Dayton, all the facilities had seating capacities of less than 10,000. Two were smaller than the ARC and one brand new one only will seat 3500. The "atmosphere" seems to be the selling point and the crowd on top of the floor is a big advantage.
As a result, if and when the ARC is renovated I would think adding more than 1000 seats would be a mistake. New and better seating, restrooms and food choices should be the only issues addressed. Having said that, I think some sort of "club" area, perhaps looking down from the north side expansion would be really nice experience for certain donors. Hanging out in a reclaimed handball court really isn't cutting it.
I would be interested in the insights from some of the MVC people that have been visiting this board on the best and toughest venues in the MVC. I have only been to one (Loyola). My guess would be that the toughest places to visit (with a criteria based primarily on attendance and engagement of the fans) are Illinois State and Northern Iowa. On a good night, Valpo will be one of the toughest places to play in the Valley, but that also includes hope that the intense atmosphere exists for all conference games and not just games on certain nights against the best opponents.
Quote from: vu72 on June 11, 2017, 09:22:54 AM
As a result, if and when the ARC is renovated I would think adding more than 1000 seats would be a mistake. New and better seating, restrooms and food choices should be the only issues addressed. Having said that, I think some sort of "club" area, perhaps looking down from the north side expansion would be really nice experience for certain donors. Hanging out in a reclaimed handball court really isn't cutting it.
100% agree.
A Club area would be great. Also how about the ARC start selling beer... more and more Universities are selling alcohol at arenas.
I know this goes with out saying but parking badly needs to be address. The school could tear down the tiny/not very well equipped Student Fitness and move it to another building (then eventually move it into the future Student Rec Center down the road) and add parking right there on the side of the building. Or could put a parking lot next to the volley ball fields that are a down the hill and across from Guild & Memorial & designate that parking lot as the new "student Parking lot" for that dorm & to free up the parking lot for current next to the dorm during game days. It may not be the most idea scenario because it would take away some green space and wouldn't be quite aesthetically pleasing losing some green space. Also fixing the parking garage...
Quote from: VU2014 on June 13, 2017, 10:45:29 AM
Quote from: vu72 on June 11, 2017, 09:22:54 AM
As a result, if and when the ARC is renovated I would think adding more than 1000 seats would be a mistake. New and better seating, restrooms and food choices should be the only issues addressed. Having said that, I think some sort of "club" area, perhaps looking down from the north side expansion would be really nice experience for certain donors. Hanging out in a reclaimed handball court really isn't cutting it.
100% agree.
A Club area would be great. Also how about the ARC start selling beer... more and more Universities are selling alcohol at arenas.
I know this goes with out saying but parking badly needs to be address. The school could tear down the tiny/not very well equipped Student Fitness and move it to another building (then eventually move it into the future Student Rec Center down the road) and add parking right there on the side of the building. Or could put a parking lot next to the volley ball fields that are a down the hill and across from Guild & Memorial & designate that parking lot as the new "student Parking lot" for that dorm & to free up the parking lot for current next to the dorm during game days. It may not be the most idea scenario because it would take away some green space and wouldn't be quite aesthetically pleasing losing some green space. Also fixing the parking garage...
Does the insurance required + liquor license not FAR exceed expected revenue from beer sales though? The beer idea might have worked in 1600's Germany (dirty water and all)....but my guess is the ROI isn't there.
Great to see the ARC on this list. Looking forward to getting to some the Valley venues this year to see them for myself (I've been to ISU for a h.s. tourney, but not for a Redbirds game, and I went to the UNI-Dome once way back when, but not their new arena).
Some other good Midwest mid-major venues to see:
Central Michigan's McGuirk Arena: https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.cml/19663_crowd2f.jpg
Akron's JAR Arena (also where LeBron James played all of his h.s. games): http://gozips.com/sports/mbkb/gameday/parking
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on June 13, 2017, 11:33:51 AM
Great to see the ARC on this list. Looking forward to getting to some the Valley venues this year to see them for myself (I've been to ISU for a h.s. tourney, but not for a Redbirds game, and I went to the UNI-Dome once way back when, but not their new arena).
Some other good Midwest mid-major venues to see:
Central Michigan's McGuirk Arena: https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.cml/19663_crowd2f.jpg
Akron's JAR Arena (also where LeBron James played all of his h.s. games): http://gozips.com/sports/mbkb/gameday/parking
I actually prefer Kent State's Memorial Athletics Center to Rhodes Arena in Akron.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 13, 2017, 11:11:44 AM
Does the insurance required + liquor license not FAR exceed expected revenue from beer sales though? The beer idea might have worked in 1600's Germany (dirty water and all)....but my guess is the ROI isn't there.
Good point. I forgot about the liquor license, but how much could a liquor license cost in Valparaiso, Indiana?
Sounds like the City granted a 10 "special low-cost liquor licenses" for businesses downtown. (article from 2013) I'm sure there are politics that would go into it and the local restaurants/bars would complain to the city about it.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/special-liquor-licenses-helped-revive-valpo-s-downtown/article_747595be-ae30-510a-986d-adedca5aad50.html
Quote from: VU2014 on June 13, 2017, 12:16:02 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 13, 2017, 11:11:44 AM
Does the insurance required + liquor license not FAR exceed expected revenue from beer sales though? The beer idea might have worked in 1600's Germany (dirty water and all)....but my guess is the ROI isn't there.
Good point. I forgot about the liquor license, but how much could a liquor license cost in Valparaiso, Indiana?
Sounds like the City granted a 10 "special low-cost liquor licenses" for businesses downtown. (article from 2013) I'm sure there are politics that would go into it and the local restaurants/bars would complain to the city about it.
http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/porter/special-liquor-licenses-helped-revive-valpo-s-downtown/article_747595be-ae30-510a-986d-adedca5aad50.html
It's far easier to be a hater than an ideas guy. Like your thought process, keep up the good posts!
Typically, arenas go through their own separate process for beer/wine licenses and those are usually granted through a caterer's/event venue license, so it wouldn't be the same procedure as a bar or restaurant. I'm sure there'd be insurance requirements, but there given the rising number of college venues that sell alcohol in suites, club areas, and even concession stands leads one to believe the revenues far outweigh the expenses.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on June 13, 2017, 05:43:38 PM
Typically, arenas go through their own separate process for beer/wine licenses and those are usually granted through a caterer's/event venue license, so it wouldn't be the same procedure as a bar or restaurant. I'm sure there'd be insurance requirements, but there given the rising number of college venues that sell alcohol in suites, club areas, and even concession stands leads one to believe the revenues far outweigh the expenses.
Point taken on colleges introducing alcohol vending. But is a Lutheran University with heavy family ticketing going to meet the revenue demands of a venue beer/wine license + insuring a previously dry campus that now sells beer/wine?
I'd argue VU isn't a traditional venue or fan mix to support beer/wine sales. I'll be frank, I don't drink so it's unappealing to me. Am I the exception at the VU games OR the rule?
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on June 13, 2017, 05:43:38 PM
Typically, arenas go through their own separate process for beer/wine licenses and those are usually granted through a caterer's/event venue license, so it wouldn't be the same procedure as a bar or restaurant. I'm sure there'd be insurance requirements, but there given the rising number of college venues that sell alcohol in suites, club areas, and even concession stands leads one to believe the revenues far outweigh the expenses.
That's the answer to the current situation. At the 150th the booze was flowing but it was through a caterer. Same thing now is the hospitality handball court where beer and wine flow.
SIU is planning on selling Beer at Basketball and football games this coming year--it's already sold in the club houses at both venues. I believe they may do baseball too, since it has been tradition to allow alcohol consumption for decades by fans who bring coolers and sit on a hill (aka "the hill gang") on the right field side of the park--we have had little or no problems with that, And I started watching (and sitting there) in 1972
Serving beer has zero marketing value. The game is the sole attraction. If it's a game you want to see, you'll be there whether they serve beer or not. If it's a game you don't want to see, you won't be there whether they serve beer or not.
The only value beer has is its potential to increase concession revenues. Even then it's probably more trouble than it's worth.
It's part of the whole experience--otherwise tailgating wouldn't be so popular. I believe it's worth a try given the need for a new revenue stream--If you don't, that's your opinion
Quote from: underdawg on June 13, 2017, 09:59:20 PM
It's part of the whole experience--otherwise tailgating wouldn't be so popular. I believe it's worth a try given the need for a new revenue stream--If you don't, that's your opinion
Beer Availability and College Football Attendance
Evidence From Mid-Major ConferencesAaron J. Chastain, Stephan F. Gohmann, E. Frank Stephenson
Abstract
We examine the relationship between beer being sold at college football stadiums and both attendance and football revenue
for 29 mid-major universities over the 2005-2012 period. Using both ordinary least squares and instrumental variable estimation,
no evidence that beer availability increases attendance or football revenue is found.http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1527002515589351
I also don't drink and have never seen a reason why drinking is required to have a good time. I don't know anyone personally who doesn't go to games because of lack of alcohol.
I remember attending the Horizon tournament in Milwaukee a few years back. Beer was sold. I felt it was inappropriate for beer to be sold at a college event. Alcohol related problems are serious enough on campuses. Most students (including the athletes on the court) are not over 21. I don't see how increasing the likelihood of encountering drunk people would enhance the experience of a college basketball game.
I'm not really a big drinker but I occasionally enjoy a beer when I attended sporting events. To be honest I only suggest it as more of a revenue generator, more then a marketing tool. For some people it makes the "game-day" experience more enjoyable. The University may be a "dry"-campus but it really isn't and would not be like they'd be serving students under 21. The University even started serving alcohol during Homecoming now. If they wanted to to start serving beer they could limit it to a roped off beer garden section to keep the family the family/student atmosphere at the ARC. Not sure if they'd break-even on the sales. Just an idea.
A 'sobering' article about the social costs associated with tailgating at college football games:
The disturbing truth about college football and rape
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/29/the-disturbing-truth-about-college-football-and-rape/
Quote from: wh on June 14, 2017, 01:35:09 PM
A 'sobering' article about the social costs associated with tailgating at college football games:
The disturbing truth about college football and rape
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/29/the-disturbing-truth-about-college-football-and-rape/
Thanks for the post. Sobering is exactly the right term.
Although "it could happen here," I believe that the small town, small college atmosphere at Valpo does not lend itself to that sort of thing. Certainly not after a Valpo football game regardless of the outcome -- we don't really even tailgate like, for instance, Butler. Maybe, if we go a little more big time with basketball success in the MVC, but we are still a campus of less than 4K undergrads. D-I schools have thousands of students and huge student sections at games which breeds a crowd mentality.
I guess i'm saying your points are valid, but allowing beer to be served at home basketball games is not going to spur a sudden increase in sexual assault on campus. And, oh BTW, the concessions set up is so cluggie that it won't happen anyway until ARC upgrades are implemented.
Quote from: wh on June 14, 2017, 01:35:09 PM
A 'sobering' article about the social costs associated with tailgating at college football games:
The disturbing truth about college football and rape
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/29/the-disturbing-truth-about-college-football-and-rape/
"13.5 percent of senior undergraduate women and 2.9 percent of senior undergraduate men had experienced "non consensual penetration involving physical force or incapacitation."
That's unrealistically high, I wonder how much lower that % of women would be if they made a statement that "regretful" was NOT to be included as an affirmative response. Let's face it, society tells women that sex outside of marriage is regretful but for men it's a triumph.
I guarantee a healthy portion of the 13.5% reported would not meet the criteria for the aim of this article. After all, regretful and consensual can go in the same sentence.
I take focus away from the main point, in which I agree, alcohol is abused by the young too much. But prohibition of anything is ignorant, so here we are...
Just stepping in to say that those statistics are more likely to be low vs high.
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 14, 2017, 05:24:23 PM
Quote from: wh on June 14, 2017, 01:35:09 PM
A 'sobering' article about the social costs associated with tailgating at college football games:
The disturbing truth about college football and rape
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/29/the-disturbing-truth-about-college-football-and-rape/
Thanks for the post. Sobering is exactly the right term.
Although "it could happen here," I believe that the small town, small college atmosphere at Valpo does not lend itself to that sort of thing. Certainly not after a Valpo football game regardless of the outcome -- we don't really even tailgate like, for instance, Butler. Maybe, if we go a little more big time with basketball success in the MVC, but we are still a campus of less than 4K undergrads. D-I schools have thousands of students and huge student sections at games which breeds a crowd mentality.
I guess i'm saying your points are valid, but allowing beer to be served at home basketball games is not going to spur a sudden increase in sexual assault on campus. And, oh BTW, the concessions set up is so cluggie that it won't happen anyway until ARC upgrades are implemented.
I was making a cautionary counterpoint that there is evidence out there that are social costs associated with selling alcoholic beverages at college sporting events. It may not apply to Valpo or Southern Illinois football games. I have no idea. It's just food for thought. If my comments sounded like a criticism toward you, or underdawg or anyone else with a different point of view, please know that I didn't mean it that way. :)
Didn't take it that way -- understood that the info in the article is valid and posting it was cautionary. Just contrasting Big Time with all its warts to little old Valpo ;)
13.5% is a BS/misleading number. They ask the question in a way that essentially says "have you ever been really drunk when having sex" and then they get to 13.5% of women were incapacitated and not able to give consent.
The idea that 13.5% of women are forcefully raped on a college campus is an outright lie. That does not excuse someone that takes advantage of a drunk girl in any way, but saying they are one in the same is not accurate in my opinion.
1 is too many but these politicized statistics need to be called out as false-hoods. Lets get back on topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZrzCAuiw7w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq3Ju_sI_Ew
Quote from: crusader05 on June 14, 2017, 07:43:51 PM
Just stepping in to say that those statistics are more likely to be low vs high.
Likely to be "low" because of underepoeting/victim shame? Just trying to see your POV.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 15, 2017, 01:16:06 PMLikely to be "low" because of underepoeting/victim shame?
There's not a doubt in my mind that this is the reason.
If we can get the funding, ours will be a must see.
Quote from: Svoboda on June 28, 2017, 10:49:17 AM
If we can get the funding, ours will be a must see.
ARC or another MVC venue ???
We need upgrades to the ARC. I don't see us doing a full renovation but we should have chairbacks surrounding the court on the lower bowl and an upgraded concessions, at the very least.
But I guess you could say I don't expect any renovation :(
At the very least the school needs to figure out the parking situation. If this team didn't have a loyal following then hardly anyone would show up to the games other then students. The parking situation is a very real issue. It shouldn't be a hassle to pay to watch the product.
I have heard there might be some changes in parking next year to free up more spots and push more students into the parking garage that often sits half full. Hopefully that will allow for more spots right across from the ARC
Quote from: crusader05 on June 29, 2017, 10:01:17 AM
I have heard there might be some changes in parking next year to free up more spots and push more students into the parking garage that often sits half full. Hopefully that will allow for more spots right across from the ARC
That's just a patch job though and its puts out the students.
I would assume they'd be freeing those spots from the Guild & Memorial Parking Lot? Its quite the hike during the winter from Guild to the parking garbages by Alumni Hall.
Someone suggested knocking down the tiny fitness center and putting parking there, which would be a extremely convenient and the school does need to expand the student fitness center so maybe they can relocate it somewhere else on campus.
Quote from: Valpo29 on June 29, 2017, 10:34:29 AM
Quote from: crusader05 on June 29, 2017, 10:01:17 AM
I have heard there might be some changes in parking next year to free up more spots and push more students into the parking garage that often sits half full. Hopefully that will allow for more spots right across from the ARC
That's just a patch job though and its puts out the students.
I would assume they'd be freeing those spots from the Guild & Memorial Parking Lot? Its quite the hike during the winter from Guild to the parking garbages but Alumni Hall.
Someone suggested knocking down the tiny fitness center and putting parking there, which would be a extremely convenient and the school does need to expand the student fitness center so maybe they can relocate it somewhere else on campus.
As students we drove to games because many of us were living offsite. Anything short of around 500 more available parking spots is a bandaid IMO. Does Guild/Memorial even hold more than 100 spots? I can't say as I have ever done the math.
The old method of parking on the grass was still crap. But at least we always found a spot with my 4x4 vehicle.