Messages

I guess you're leaving so no sense continuing this.

Yep, and you're a big reason why.

Sorry to see you go. Not sure how someone with 759 posts can be considered a "troll".  Only 15 posters have more posts than that.  What does that make the other 96.57% of us on this board?

Thanks, I always enjoyed your insight of the game and knowledge you shared with all of us. Take care

*You'd have to ask a3uge about the "troll" part.

The "troll" has left the building.

To those here who could have a decent discussion and disagree without being a jacka$$, I say thanks and Go Valpo! Also best of luck in future endeavors and much success in things to come to the Valpo community. While I teased about the Kool Aid drinkers, it's a darn supportive group of loyal fans and I hope that continues in the future. My wife and I spent some great years at VU, and she even came back to VU to work after getting her masters.

However, there are a couple of people on here that ruin the experience for me, and it's just not worth the stress and aggravation of logging on. So with that, I leave, and remember the glass is always half empty. Haha 

And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.

Anybody else find it hypocritical that the guy calling somebody names is b!tching about foul language and name calling? Things that make you go hmm...

BUT NOBODY IS NOMINATING ME FOR MAN OF THE YEAR HHHHMMMMMM

No kidding. That's not something you have to worry about anytime soon.

And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.

Anybody else find it hypocritical that the guy calling somebody names is b!tching about foul language and name calling? Things that make you go hmm...

Marlin played a significant role in the IPFW victory over VU in December of 2011.  He hit a couple of big 3's and had 7 assists.  I don't think that Marlin enjoyed the team atmosphere here at IPFW and I certainly know that he had issues when St Louis redshirt sophomore transfer Justin Jordan was able to play in late December. The two started splitting time despite the fact the Jordan didn't really fit the point role nearly as well as Marlin.

Saw this video on the IWU site and found it very interesting. Faith and Basketball with Cody Zeller and Jonny Marlin

I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but thanks for sharing!

well, he did last year too with the kid from Creighton...

The kid last year was RJ Mahurin from Rockville who started at Indiana State. His brother, Lane Mahurin,  was already playing at IWU. So this is a little different because Marlin doesn't have a brother at Indiana Wesleyan. I think Marlin saw how well it worked for Mahurin and wanted to play for a winner and was sold by Greg on the atmosphere at IWU. He must have also liked that he could play immediately instead of sitting out a year which he did when transferring from IPFW to IU.

http://www.iwuwildcats.com/article/3736.php

Taking it one step further, RJ Mahurin was a BIG factor in the National Title game. It could be argued that he should have been the MVP of the game, and in fact he was passed over for the award because the announcers thought a 4 year player should win it vs. a transfer. Both players were absolutely deserving, so there was no wrong answer but it's worth noting that the 1 year transfer helped get them a title.

Indiana guard Jonny Marlin has announced he will transfer to Coach Tonagel's Indiana Wesleyan. Good get, Greg!

Jonny Marlin has transferred after every season. Started out as a freshman starting point for IPFW, transferred to IU, sat out a season per transfer rules, play very sparingly this year and is now going to IWU.  Kind of a Richie Edwards in reverse.

That does sound like a step back, but it's good for Greg IMO. He gets a legit D1 player for an NAIA DII school. I think that's a significant addition on that level.

...Seriously guys, there's a difference between a "hard nosed coach that must use gay slurs and insult players that crapped their pants in public from an intense workout" and "Man of the Year"...

I put the kid crapping himself on the player. If you need your coach to tell you it's okay to go potty while you're a college student running a drill, you have WAY bigger issues than some coach yelling at you. At some point you have to walk (or in this case likely run) to the bathroom and deal with the consequences later. Just crapping yourself isn't a good decision unless you're 2 years old. I can't fault the coach for that.

And yes, I would say someone whom only posts in the off season about our fans suck, the league sucks, and the team sucks is a troll.

Ah, you're one of the Kool Aid crowd. My bad.

Edit: sorry, not going to feed the troll

Hmm, I am now a troll. Do I get my own doll?

I am serious...bad language was the jist of the issue? That's the problem everybody has such an issue with? I've heard much worse...in high school sports. Oh well.

I would think that it was given as a consolation prize for not getting into the NCAA tournament when many of the voters thought GB should have made it. That is the only way I can think the voters could justify their selection. Many obviously did not read about the controversy involving Wardle during the summer.

Here's what I read regarding the "controversy", did he do something else? is there more than this?

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9308960/wisconsin-green-bay-coach-brian-wardle-keep-job-investigation

Call me crazy, but with a recruiter like Gardner and a new facility next year (not to mention new on-campus housing), IUPUI is positioned to make some noise in the Summit.

It doesn't impact Valpo much, but IUPUI could now be in play for Indianapolis kids who might otherwise end up at Ball State, Indiana State or Evansville.

Not crazy at all. As you are well aware, there's enough talent here to be very successful without leaving the donut counties.

Call me crazy, but with a recruiter like Gardner and a new facility next year (not to mention new on-campus housing), IUPUI is positioned to make some noise in the Summit.

It doesn't impact Valpo much, but IUPUI could now be in play for Indianapolis kids who might otherwise end up at Ball State, Indiana State or Evansville.

I'm not saying that Gardner won't bring in more Indy players but is the improvement in quality of bringing in the BSU, ISU, E-ville guys from Indy enough for IUPUI to make real noise in the Summit? The Jags may get out of the bottom of the SL but rising to the top of what has become an excellent top of the league in recent years probably won't happen.

The advantage here is there's just so much talent and he's got a good reputation in Indy. I still find it amazing that Gary Harris and Zak Irvin couldn't win a sectional at Hamilton SE despite being back to back Mr. Basketballs. Granted Carmel (in their sectional) won the state title back to back, but still. Of course HSE beat Carmel this year to claim the sectional crown after those two left. Too funny.

Wow, was that awful. I watched that game figuring that Wisconsin would win, but that was some of the worst defense I've ever seen. That zone was pathetic. Bo Ryan was spot on by saying they should have been up by more at half. The entry pass to the foul line was open all night, and a pass from the top of the key to the baseline should NEVER be open...it happened 3 times last night. Wisconsin's offense was either a 3, a layup or foul line jumper.

My real reason for posting is that I haven't watched Baylor much this year...is their zone always that bad, or were they terrified of Wisconsin and their shooters.

I would have to agree. The perception in Indy is quite different than outside the Indy area. Most Butler fans, though I detest them, believe Butler will be back simply because they have some kind of magic formula. They are not at all happy that the team is losing and they are much quieter in public settings these days but true to form they usually just say wait till things change in the Big East and wait till we get the right recruits. The fans feel the money that Butler has been able to invest in their athletic dept as a whole will make all of their sports programs better and their men's bb program is destined to return to prominence. It's like when children believe in the tooth fairy and by staying on track Butler will get to the promised land. 

I like reading this board a lot better than talking to any Butler fans on the street or other public places.

I am not sure exactly sure where they'll end up in the food chain, but I suspect the middle of the pack in the Big East is about the worst they'll end up. They have a lot of things going for them as a basketball program that many do not have.

#1) Hinkle Fieldhouse - Historic and not a bad place as it sits today. It's also undergoing extensive renovations. $34 million dollars worth to give a ballpark

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2013/05/20/hinkle-fieldhouse-renovations-costing-34-million-to-be-finished/2343325/

#2) Supportive administration, alumni and board - In addition to being supportive, they also have the financial backing to do what they're doing.

#3a) Indianapolis - Being in a major market is a huge factor in their ability to sustain success (see Valpo and the MVC as to why that matters)

#3b) Indianapolis - The Indianapolis metropolitan area has put out some fantastic talent in the last 10-15 years. Because they are now in the Big East playing the likes of Georgetown & Villanova, you have a chance of keeping the in state/city kids home vs. going to Michigan State, Michigan or IU. They'll still get the primary 5 star recruits, but I think you'll see an upswing IF Brandon Miller can put together a decent season or two.

#5) Fan base - The previous post illustrates the attendance. While losing this year will hurt it some, being in the top 60 overall and having sold out games will not hurt recruiting or the local interest.

[Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.]

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...

It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League

Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly.  It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.  Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later?  Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son?  You can answer that for yourself.  In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant. 

Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result.  So what did we lose by waiting 7 years?  We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story.  Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.

So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year?  Again, you can answer that for yourself.   

...

Pretty much sums that up in a nutshell

So if was a lateral move, why would you be clapping wh? What would it matter if we didn't join the Horizon or not in 2001 as opposed to 2007?

Seriously?

...I think he's the 5th Butler player to quit the team since the beginning of this season. 

They're just trying to keep up with IU

[Baylor]

I think this is an excellent response to the few who try to defend Butler's move despite the disastrous results by claiming they are "laughing all the way to the bank."  I don't recall having read any fan comments saying, "Yeah, we went from one of America's best feel-good sports stories and sports media darlings to a bottom feeder in the Big East, practically overnight, but I'm happy that the athletic department is making more money."   I would also bet that their President and Board of Trustees have to be praying that they didn't unwittingly trade their school's coveted basketball image and reputation for a pay check.       

As an Indianapolis resident, and somebody who knows quite a few alumni and administrators at Butler, they are all very pleased with the move to the Big East and what the future holds for Butler as an institution. I can't speak for everybody at Butler of course but of the people I know and interact with, they're very happy.

I think the attendance numbers speak for themselves

17th biggest increase in attendance from 6,599 to 7,899

58th overall in D1 attendance ahead of schools like LSU, Oregon, Georgia Tech, St. Johns, Baylor, Seton Hall, Georgia and Gonzaga just to name a few.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdf

It's not hard to believe that a city such as Indianapolis would be more interested in seeing teams like Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, St. Johns, Xavier and Vanderbilt vs. Wisconsin - Green Bay, Oakland, and Youngstown State. Hmm...

[Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.]

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...

It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League

Let me see if I can address your question, at least indirectly.  It's common knowledge (confirmed by BigD WSU) that Valpo declined an invitation to join the HL in 2001, after which the league invited YSU.  Why would we decline the very thing we jumped at 7 years later?  Could it have had anything to do with the fact that our former AD and the then Mid Con Conference Commissioner are father/son?  You can answer that for yourself.  In any event, instead of accepting a promotion to a higher rated, higher profile conference only 3 years after our Sweet-16 run, we inexplicably and inexcusably continued to flounder in the wretched Mid Con for another 7 freaking years! 7 more years Homer Drew was left to struggle to try to recruit quality players to play in a no-name league against no-name opponents in far distant lands, while the success of '98 became increasingly more distant. 

Finally, our current AD had the good sense to make the move, and our program continues on the upswing as a result.  So what did we lose by waiting 7 years?  We completely squandered all the publicity and good will we received in the aftermath of our highly publicized cinderella story.  Just threw it away because the powers that were either didn't have enough common sense to realize what they had, or they were more concerned with self interest over what was clearly in the best interest of the university.

So, is it unreasonable to think that had we made the move to the HL 7 years before we did that we could have landed better recruits, and won more games, and had better attendance, and gotten more attention sooner that we needed an upgrade to the ARC, and taken more seriously by the MVC search committee last year?  Again, you can answer that for yourself.   

Pretty much sums that up in a nutshell

Still waiting for someone to provide a legitimate route Valpo could have gone in the past or now that would be an upgrade over the HL.

Who knows because that's based on things that never happened...

It's like saying where would I have ended up as a basketball player if I grew 6" taller. Valpo didn't do anything to increase their status, and therefore never gained any new opportunities. They landed in the Horizon League, which is some improvement over the Mid Con, but mostly it was a lateral move with less travel. It doesn't happen often, but there are plenty of teams who joined bigger conferences such as the A10, MVC, and Big East all from the Horizon League, and not just Butler!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon_League

If all of these conferences are basically the same thing, what are you so pissed off about? That we're not in the Big East? What conference should we be in right now? Are you pissed we haven't jumped to the MVC? Seriously, where do you expect us to be right now? I guess the SWAC, Southland, SoCon, Sun Belt, A Sun, CUSA, same damn thing too, right? SFA got a 12 seed and Tulsa got a 13.

These were the teams in the MidCon in 1997-1998:

1   Valparaiso
2   Oral Roberts
3   Youngstown State
3   Western Illinois
5   Buffalo
6   Missouri-Kansas City
7   Southern Utah
8   Northeastern Illinois
9   Chicago State

It doesn't exactly look like the current Horizon League, but hey, let's keep pretending we're in the same exact spot we were in 1997. Trips to Detroit are basically the same as taking a trip to southern utah. Playing 2 games a year vs Chicago State where your RPI gets worse from a win is basically the same thing as what we have now. I guess going 18-0 in a conference and not even being remotely close to at-large talks if you lose your conference tourney is about what we have now, right?

Same conference different logo, lol, I thought people here would actually respect mid major basketball. Sounds like something that would come out of a Duke fan.

First off there are things to be pissed off about, and this isn't one of them. Disappointed, sure, pissed off, not so much. As for where Valpo should be now, who knows because there was no effort to change anything or to increase the strength of the program. Valpo is clearly okay with that so it is what it is. Butler parlayed 2 incredible tournament runs into a Big East Invite. Horizon to A10 to Big East. That's amazing, but they're in a different world than VU. Butler is in Indianapolis vs. Valparaiso, IN. BIG Difference. That being said, with what Valpo has done to enhance the program it would be ridiculous to even attempt to join those ranks.

As for respecting the over used term "Mid Major" basketball, I certainly do, however...there's a difference between Mid Major and non BCS teams. Wichita State, Gonzaga, and VCU are Mid Majors. Butler and Xavier used to be Mid Majors before they joined the Big East. The term Major is overused in my opinion.

The tournament format isn't a problem that needs solving.

Thank you. 

Unless your team regularly blows in the tourney, of course.  Then squawking about the format distracts from what a terrible coach you are.

Don't fix something that isn't a problem.

and some people also think that walmart and target are the same stores with different logos.

They pretty much are, minus some credit card security breaches. It's not like you're picking up Frette sheets at either one.

As I have stated before...rational thinking when it comes to Valpo basketball isn't exactly a strength of this group.

perhaps posting that beneath 500+ words of (mostly) sober statistical analysis of trends of the last seven years wasn't the best place to position such a statement

touché. Well played sir. 

That being said the point is still valid.