• Welcome to The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum.
 

ARC Awards

Started by vu72, May 06, 2019, 09:01:41 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

vu72

I think it is really great that the Athletic Department puts on a great show honoring the athletes and athletic performances of the past year.  BUT, IT WAS A TERRIBLE, AWFUL, EMBARRASSING, DREADFUL athletic year.

Let's look back for a moment.  I won't even bother with track or swimming, we all understand their role at Valpo, but let's do look at the key sports including Football, Men's and Women's Soccer, Men's and Women's Basketball, Volleyball, Baseball, Softball and Men's and Women's Tennis.

So here we go:

Football--2-9 finish:Tied for second last
Men's Soccer--5-8-4: 3rd out of seven------------- :clap: :dance: :clap:
Women's Soccer--5-8-3: Tied for second last
Men's Basketball--15-18: Tied for second last
Women's Basketball--8-24: Second last.
Volleyball--27-11: 4th out of 10------------- :clap: :dance: :clap:
Baseball--Currently 10-31 in Last place.
Softball--Currently  15-30 in Last Place
Men's Tennis--14-5: Finished 3rd----------- :clap: :dance: :clap:
Women's Tennis--3-17: Finished--Last

So of the 10 sports, we had TWO team with a winning record, and three teams either in last place or finished in last place with four more teams finishing in second last.  Two teams had good, not great years and represented Valpo at an acceptable level.

This is as bad an athletic year as I can recall.  We are WAY over our heads in The Valley.  If this continues, heads need to roll or we need to go back to the Horizon.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

vusupporter

Men's tennis went 14-5.

vu72

Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

VULB#62


vu72

Quote from: VULB#62 on May 06, 2019, 09:52:13 AM
Golf? 

Good catch.  Men's finished 5th of 9 and Women's added to our last place teams, finishing 10th of 10.  :(
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

valpofb16

MLB has definitely left much to desire as an AD and we can leave it at that

valpo64

Here we go again...who is next  in line to get beat up on this Board?  After 2 years we made a big mistake in upgrading to the MVC?  What exactly do some of you expect from our School after 2 seasons?  This repeat and repeat of negativity is getting old.  Any positive thinkers out there?  If so, let's hear from you!

vu72

Quote from: valpo64 on May 06, 2019, 03:56:30 PM
Here we go again...who is next  in line to get beat up on this Board?  After 2 years we made a big mistake in upgrading to the MVC?  What exactly do some of you expect from our School after 2 seasons?  This repeat and repeat of negativity is getting old.  Any positive thinkers out there?  If so, let's hear from you!

64.Come on.  We didn't jump to the Big Ten.  Based on our record we aren't even close. Seven out of 12 sports we finished second last or last.  I want Valpo to succeed as much or more than anybody on the board but right now it is embarrassingly bad.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

JD24

The power of POSITIVITY!!!!

dcannon12

BUT, IT WAS A TERRIBLE, AWFUL, EMBARRASSING, DREADFUL athletic year.

Wow really I went to a lot of Valpo athletic events and each athlete was having a blast the team work, competition, support and thrill of the game is what I saw.
Sure no team was undefeated or even close . The support of the girls basketball team gave each was always there to the last minute of every game.  Seewald support for the other QB's was noticed he was always encouraging them good or bad, when Duncan made mistakes he picked himself up and went right back at it, the men basketball team played like they were winners.  So lets give these student  athletics positive messages nothing was embarrassing it's sports.   

valpofb16

Absolutely nothing against the athletes full support of them. MLB is just not great.

Look at things such as team records, conference movement , non conference scheduling , player attrition, recruiting budgets etc.

Just not on the MLB train

usc4valpo

In Division 1 sports, results are important and represent your athletic program. Nice warm fuzzies, but let's not buff a turd of a year.

vu72

Quote from: dcannon12 on May 06, 2019, 06:02:17 PM
BUT, IT WAS A TERRIBLE, AWFUL, EMBARRASSING, DREADFUL athletic year.

Wow really I went to a lot of Valpo athletic events and each athlete was having a blast the team work, competition, support and thrill of the game is what I saw.
Sure no team was undefeated or even close . The support of the girls basketball team gave each was always there to the last minute of every game.  Seewald support for the other QB's was noticed he was always encouraging them good or bad, when Duncan made mistakes he picked himself up and went right back at it, the men basketball team played like they were winners.  So lets give these student  athletics positive messages nothing was embarrassing it's sports.   

OK, Maybe I was a little overboard in my reaction.  Certainly I am all for the players giving their all and supporting those efforts both via cheers and dollars.  I am a frequent viewer of not only men's and women's basketball but really enjoy the action of volleyball, softball and baseball.  Having said that, we already have sports where there is zero expectations of excellence, where school records get 10th place finishes.  Are the athletes giving it their all?  Of course. 

The larger issue is are our coaches, for whatever reason, capable of attracting the level of athletes necessary to compete at The Valley level? It has only been two years and as we have discussed via Matt, having a cycle of time to bring in "your" players is only fair.  I'm not calling for anybody's head including the AD.  Given we are going into year 3, I certainly think improvement is expected and for starters I think both Men's and Women's basketball will get out of the basement, time will tell.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

VULB#62

For the flagship (high profile) sports mentioned, I believe our university significantly underestimated the resources that would be required to adequately support the move to the MVC from the outset and remain relevant/competitive at that new level.  That underestimate is reflected in many of the criticisms already directed at and documented about our two BB programs and the environment in which they play. It is also reflected in the rather poor records we are achieving in other sports. Somewhere (could it be the Athletics Strategic Plan?) I recall that Valpo strives for excellence on the field, in the classroom and in the community. We may be doing OK in the latter two, but in the first can we truly say we are striving toward excellence?  Or paying that element more lip service than action. Thus, I would suggest that we replace "strive" with the word "wish."  In today's world you cannot strive unless you put resources behind effort.

One case in point:  men's soccer.  In most non-FBS and non-football DI universities,  that is the flagship fall sport. Technically, with our FB being nonscholarship, Valpo kind of falls into that category. Yet, we schedule and play programs that are fully funded ( i.e., fully scholarshipped). We are not. If Valpo was fully funded it would result in getting the two or three extra differences makers that would turn a  generally .500 team into a team floating in and out of the nationally ranked top 25 almost every year.

Those  same programs have dedicated soccer pitches that can be pointed to during recruiting as evidence of commitment. And they can be leveraged for scheduling home games. Not at Valpo. Teams that ordinarily would consider trading home and home games refuse to come to Valpo. As a result, if you check the schedule year in and year out, the team is forced to schedule  a disproportionate amount of road games.

Then there is practice. MSO shares Brown Field with football in the fall and must schedule their practice time around football which is always given top priority. If you follow MSO Twitter you know that many times duriing the season the team practices at 6:00am or 7:00pm so that players can go to classes.  Practicing after classes are over for the day is out, because the field is not available. In winter, the ARC is dedicated to basketball and the same scramble for practice time scraps occurs.

Does this sound like striving for excellence on the field? We should be in the  thick of it when it comes to the MVC All-Sports trophy. We are no where near. Heck, you might say, it's a higher level of competition, so you can't expect that. OK, how did we do in the Horizon then  as far as that All-Sports trophy.  Also at or near the bottom pretty much every year we were members. The first year Oakland joined the HL, I believe they won it.

............. but we did consistently beat Oakland in MBB, so I guess we achieved that excellence.

vu72

Quote from: VULB#62 on May 07, 2019, 12:05:53 PM
For the flagship (high profile) sports mentioned, I believe our university significantly underestimated the resources that would be required to adequately support the move to the MVC from the outset and remain relevant/competitive at that new level.  That underestimate is reflected in many of the criticisms already directed at and documented about our two BB programs and the environment in which they play. It is also reflected in the rather poor records we are achieving in other sports. Somewhere (could it be the Athletics Strategic Plan?) I recall that Valpo strives for excellence on the field, in the classroom and in the community. We may be doing OK in the latter two, but in the first can we truly say we are striving toward excellence?  Or paying that element more lip service than action. Thus, I would suggest that we replace "strive" with the word "wish."  In today's world you cannot strive unless you put resources behind effort.

One case in point:  men's soccer.  In most non-FBS and non-football DI universities,  that is the flagship fall sport. Technically, with our FB being nonscholarship, Valpo kind of falls into that category. Yet, we schedule and play programs that are fully funded ( i.e., fully scholarshipped). We are not. If Valpo was fully funded it would result in getting the two or three extra differences makers that would turn a  generally .500 team into a team floating in and out of the nationally ranked top 25 almost every year.

Those  same programs have dedicated soccer pitches that can be pointed to during recruiting as evidence of commitment. And they can be leveraged for scheduling home games. Not at Valpo. Teams that ordinarily would consider trading home and home games refuse to come to Valpo. As a result, if you check the schedule year in and year out, the team is forced to schedule  a disproportionate amount of road games.

Then there is practice. MSO shares Brown Field with football in the fall and must schedule their practice time around football which is always given top priority. If you follow MSO Twitter you know that many times duriing the season the team practices at 6:00am or 7:00pm so that players can go to classes.  Practicing after classes are over for the day is out, because the field is not available. In winter, the ARC is dedicated to basketball and the same scramble for practice time scraps occurs.

Does this sound like striving for excellence on the field? We should be in the  thick of it when it comes to the MVC All-Sports trophy. We are no where near. Heck, you might say, it's a higher level of competition, so you can't expect that. OK, how did we do in the Horizon then  as far as that All-Sports trophy.  Also at or near the bottom pretty much every year we were members. The first year Oakland joined the HL, I believe they won it.

............. but we did consistently beat Oakland in MBB, so I guess we achieved that excellence.


I think you are referencing this--from the Strategic Plan:

CATEGORY 2: COMPETITIVENESS
Goal 2.1: Finish in the top 3 in the McCafferty Cup while winning it at least
once every four years.
Goal 2.2: Basketball programs are regular participants in the NCAA Basketball Tournament.
Goal 2.3: Two additional sports annually compete in the NCAA
Championships.
Goal 2.4: Finish in the top 3 in the Pioneer Football League while winning
the Championship at least once every four years.
Goal 2.5: An increasing number of student-athletes and coaches participate
in NCAA Championships or win national and/or conference individual honors.
Strategy 2.A: Develop a plan of support for the University's Strategic Plan Objective 3.6 while
enhancing the vision of providing intercollegiate athletic programs that compete for team
championships, provide opportunities for student-athletes to secure individual
championships, and create exceptional student experiences.
Action step 2.A.i: Establish criteria to compete for conference championships at the
team level in the sports of Baseball, Men's and Women's Basketball, Bowling, Football,
Men's and Women's Golf, Men's and Women's Soccer, Softball, Men's and Women's
Tennis, and Volleyball.
Action step 2.A.ii Establish criteria that support students' opportunity to win individual
championships in the sports of Men's and Women's Cross Country, Men's and Women's Swimming,
Men's and Women's Track and Field.

Having found this, it is apparent that it means very little or at a minimum hasn't been looked at for over two years.  The McCafferty Cup is awarded in The Horizon League.  :(

Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

usc4valpo

Valpo has to commit to being better and not be satisfied for having athletic programs for the sake of having them exist.

VULB#62

Quote from: vu72 on May 07, 2019, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 07, 2019, 12:05:53 PM
For the flagship (high profile) sports mentioned, I believe our university significantly underestimated the resources that would be required to adequately support the move to the MVC from the outset and remain relevant/competitive at that new level.  That underestimate is reflected in many of the criticisms already directed at and documented about our two BB programs and the environment in which they play. It is also reflected in the rather poor records we are achieving in other sports. Somewhere (could it be the Athletics Strategic Plan?) I recall that Valpo strives for excellence on the field, in the classroom and in the community. We may be doing OK in the latter two, but in the first can we truly say we are striving toward excellence?  Or paying that element more lip service than action. Thus, I would suggest that we replace "strive" with the word "wish."  In today's world you cannot strive unless you put resources behind effort.

One case in point:  men's soccer.  In most non-FBS and non-football DI universities,  that is the flagship fall sport. Technically, with our FB being nonscholarship, Valpo kind of falls into that category. Yet, we schedule and play programs that are fully funded ( i.e., fully scholarshipped). We are not. If Valpo was fully funded it would result in getting the two or three extra differences makers that would turn a  generally .500 team into a team floating in and out of the nationally ranked top 25 almost every year.

Those  same programs have dedicated soccer pitches that can be pointed to during recruiting as evidence of commitment. And they can be leveraged for scheduling home games. Not at Valpo. Teams that ordinarily would consider trading home and home games refuse to come to Valpo. As a result, if you check the schedule year in and year out, the team is forced to schedule  a disproportionate amount of road games.

Then there is practice. MSO shares Brown Field with football in the fall and must schedule their practice time around football which is always given top priority. If you follow MSO Twitter you know that many times duriing the season the team practices at 6:00am or 7:00pm so that players can go to classes.  Practicing after classes are over for the day is out, because the field is not available. In winter, the ARC is dedicated to basketball and the same scramble for practice time scraps occurs.

Does this sound like striving for excellence on the field? We should be in the  thick of it when it comes to the MVC All-Sports trophy. We are no where near. Heck, you might say, it's a higher level of competition, so you can't expect that. OK, how did we do in the Horizon then  as far as that All-Sports trophy.  Also at or near the bottom pretty much every year we were members. The first year Oakland joined the HL, I believe they won it.

............. but we did consistently beat Oakland in MBB, so I guess we achieved that excellence.


I think you are referencing this--from the Strategic Plan:

CATEGORY 2: COMPETITIVENESS
Goal 2.1: Finish in the top 3 in the McCafferty Cup while winning it at least
once every four years.
Goal 2.2: Basketball programs are regular participants in the NCAA Basketball Tournament.
Goal 2.3: Two additional sports annually compete in the NCAA
Championships.
Goal 2.4: Finish in the top 3 in the Pioneer Football League while winning
the Championship at least once every four years.
Goal 2.5: An increasing number of student-athletes and coaches participate
in NCAA Championships or win national and/or conference individual honors.
Strategy 2.A: Develop a plan of support for the University's Strategic Plan Objective 3.6 while
enhancing the vision of providing intercollegiate athletic programs that compete for team
championships, provide opportunities for student-athletes to secure individual
championships, and create exceptional student experiences.
Action step 2.A.i: Establish criteria to compete for conference championships at the
team level in the sports of Baseball, Men's and Women's Basketball, Bowling, Football,
Men's and Women's Golf, Men's and Women's Soccer, Softball, Men's and Women's
Tennis, and Volleyball.
Action step 2.A.ii Establish criteria that support students' opportunity to win individual
championships in the sports of Men's and Women's Cross Country, Men's and Women's Swimming,
Men's and Women's Track and Field.

Having found this, it is apparent that it means very little or at a minimum hasn't been looked at for over two years.  The McCafferty Cup is awarded in The Horizon League.  :(

Spot on 72. In
Even in the HL Valpo failed to achieve the goals it sought.

Valpo, PUT YOUR MONEY (Resources) WHERE YOU MOUTH IS. DAMMIT.

usc4valpo

I don't expect Valpo to be at the same overall athletic level as Stanford, UCLA or USC, but cmon man! No excuses here.

valpo64

I too have been disappointed in our overall success since we joined the MVC.  I also agree that we need to spend significantly more money in our sports programs, especially basketball.  While we need to recognize that some already has been spent(TV capabilities, baseball field improvements, basketball practice facilities and whatever,  we do need to bite the bullet and make immediate improvements in the ARC, etc.  It will take time to be successful in the MVC but we need to keep pushing forward toward that goal.  Look at Rutgers when they joined the Big 10, 12 or whatever it is called now.  All of a sudden now we need to recruit better athletes in all sports and that takes time to develop on a consistent basis.  Remember how this board used to joke about Loyola's terrible debut in MVC basketball?  There are other MVC schools who are not successful in a great number of sports in MVC play.  Let's hope we all keep pushing forward, including the VU Athletic Dept. and the School  Administration to achieve success in the MVC.  GO VALPO!

vu84v2

Quote from: valpo64 on May 08, 2019, 01:08:40 PM
I too have been disappointed in our overall success since we joined the MVC.  I also agree that we need to spend significantly more money in our sports programs, especially basketball.  While we need to recognize that some already has been spent(TV capabilities, baseball field improvements, basketball practice facilities and whatever,  we do need to bite the bullet and make immediate improvements in the ARC, etc.  It will take time to be successful in the MVC but we need to keep pushing forward toward that goal.  Look at Rutgers when they joined the Big 10, 12 or whatever it is called now.  All of a sudden now we need to recruit better athletes in all sports and that takes time to develop on a consistent basis.  Remember how this board used to joke about Loyola's terrible debut in MVC basketball?  There are other MVC schools who are not successful in a great number of sports in MVC play.  Let's hope we all keep pushing forward, including the VU Athletic Dept. and the School  Administration to achieve success in the MVC.  GO VALPO!

So I imagine that we can agree that the University should push hard to find a donor or donors to fund major initiatives related to athletics - such as renovating or at least making immediate improvements to the ARC.

But let's assume for a minute that such a donor does not exist. Where do you suggest that the money come from?  Take from the endowment (my guess is that there are restrictions on that)? Reduce budgets elsewhere in the university (and, if so, where)? Take out additional debt?  Many say Valpo needs to 'bite the bullet', but no one ever seems to suggest where the money comes from.

valpo64

I'm no money expert so I leave solving that problem to the finance/money/etc. people at the University.  But I surely agree that the ARC improvements are needed now and that it should be a priority with the School to find funding for the project.

VULB#62

#21
I'd like to emphasize that this string is about overall sports excellence not just basketball and facilities.

Most Valpo sports are underfunded or not funded at all scholarship-wise. That's the real dilemma we are facing. Despite average to poor facilities, if we initially gave more key sports full scholarship funding, we could still attract some better athletes in those sports raising our MVC overall sports profile considerably and putting teeth into the idea of excellence on the field, classroom and community.

I can see the need to do this in sensible stages.

Currently fully funded ( I believe):  MBB, WBB, VB

Stage One:  MSO, WSO, Baseball, Softball, WT, MT, WG, MG (Immediately go to NCAA maximums - MT & MG have displayed great results lately; women's counterparts move with the men)
Stage Two:  T&F, CC (Phase in scholarships to reach NCAA max in 8 years - two graduation cycles)
Stage Three:  Bowling, Swimming ( Start the same phasing as Stage Two but after the first graduation cycle)

What you have above is something called a plan. It would do a number of things.

One - help the university forecast costs and budget accordingly. Athletic Scholarships are  accounting issues, not donor issues like getting money to build something. Essential you are charging zero to attend Valpo to play a sport which benefits the university. Let the accountants play with the numbers.
Two - It would add better athletes ( duh!)
Three - it would give our coaches some hope. Hope that they can be competitive and don't have to constantly swim upstream against programs that have the funding we don't.

valpo95

Quote from: vu84v2 on May 08, 2019, 05:24:43 PM

So I imagine that we can agree that the University should push hard to find a donor or donors to fund major initiatives related to athletics - such as renovating or at least making immediate improvements to the ARC.

But let's assume for a minute that such a donor does not exist. Where do you suggest that the money come from?  Take from the endowment (my guess is that there are restrictions on that)? Reduce budgets elsewhere in the university (and, if so, where)? Take out additional debt?  Many say Valpo needs to 'bite the bullet', but no one ever seems to suggest where the money comes from.

Therein is the main challenge - it is easy to spend someone else's money yet the university needs to make prudent decisions.

Here are some "round number" values that show the financial position of the university.  (This is from the 2017, 2016 and 2015 audited financial statements for the Lutheran University Association who is the "corporate" entity of VU.) over those years, they have had a loss of $2M to $3M per fiscal year. The operating revenue (inclusive of tuition and endowment earnings) is about $130M, the operating expenses (inclusive of depreciation and spending on new construction) are about $133M, so the loss is reasonable compared to their revenues. I note that Valpo borrowed quite a bit in 2016 and 2015 to complete some of the construction projects, and started paying it back in 2017. As of 2017, they had total notes and bonds payable of $109M: They are paying about $3.8M in interest payments on the debt, and in round numbers have to pay back $3.2M in bond principal per year. This debt is balanced by an endowment of $250M.

In addition, there must be considerable expenses related to closing down the law school that either have been paid or will be paid in 2018-19, and the tuition revenue will decrease due to not having law students.

So, perhaps the university is a fairly good credit risk because it has a much larger endowment than the current debt. Yet it is also unlikely they could dramatically increase their debt without running into fiscal challenges: It is not possible for a private entity to lose money every year, and I'm guessing that there will be a higher net loss due to the law school closure.

There are two solutions. First, an increase in donations. If a donor steps forward with a $20M gift to renovate the ARC, I'm sure it will happen quickly. Similarly, it is all well and good to talk about fully funding athletic scholarships for all sports. This would require donors to step up to endow an athletic scholarship (at $850K per scholarship). If this happens, I'm sure that those sports can increase the amount of scholarships and competitively recruit in more cases. Second, the other solution is on the revenue side: If VU can increase its enrollment by even a few students, it makes a big difference and can quickly go from an operating loss to an operating profit. Consider this simple example. If every freshman class is 50 students above the current, then this puts the total enrollment up by 200 students. 200 multiplied by $25K net per student works out to $5M per year. With even a few more students, it is much easier to fund renovations, or support borrowing more money to do so. (However, as noted above, the number of students is probably not trending up due to the law school closure. )






VULB#62

#23
So 95, if we admit more students we are better off financially. To do that we probably would  have to lower our admission standards.            BUT.... That does not mean having to lower our academic standards.             So.....  If we get 200 more enrollees annually and 100 don't cut it, we are still a net 100 ahead, right. Our ratings criteria suffers temporarily, but over time, as enrollment grows and we close in on 6,000 and all programs are improving, we start returning to a tighter admissions criteria. It is a bump in the road but not a set back, and in the end it is a net gain.

Speaking of rating standards. In this current education environment the watchword is not preserving standards, it is preserving  institutions i.e., survival.  Valpo needs to survive and to grow. To do that it needs to increase its enrollment. Open the gates a bit wider. Admit more applicants. Roll the dice. 

Wait! That would devalue our degrees say some alums. Answer: What's the value of a St. Joes degree these days?

valpo95

Quote from: VULB#62 on May 08, 2019, 09:43:53 PM
So 95, if we admit more students we are better off financially. To do that we probably would  have to lower our admission standards.            BUT.... That does not mean having to lower our academic standards.             So.....  If we get 200 more enrollees annually and 100 don't cut it, we are still a net 100 ahead, right. Our ratings criteria suffers temporarily, but over time, as enrollment grows and we close in on 6,000 and all programs are improving, we start returning to a tighter admissions criteria. It is a bump in the road but not a set back, and in the end it is a net gain.

Speaking of rating standards. In this current education environment the watchword is not preserving standards, it is preserving  institutions i.e., survival.  Valpo needs to survive and to grow. To do that it needs to increase its enrollment. Open the gates a bit wider. Admit more applicants. Roll the dice. 

Wait! That would devalue our degrees say some alums. Answer: What's the value of a St. Joes degree these days?

That's a bit unfair, and my post was already long enough. I never said VU should lower admission standards (the acceptance rate is something around 80% anyway), and doing so didn't work out for the law school.  Clearly there is also some student attrition over four years. My point was to put some numbers to circumstances facing the administration, and to provide some perspective to those suggesting the university immediately fund major renovations and dozens of new scholarships when the university has been running a modest deficit.